Morelia Python Radio
Carpet python morphs 101- Caramel and Red morphs
In this episode we continue our series on the different morphs of carpet pythons. In this segement we will discuss the caramel gene and the red gene of coastal carpet pythons.
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Hello everybody welcome to another episode, episode 246 and we are doing uh yeah uh Carpet Python Warf 101. Tonight we're going to talk about the caramel and the red carpet python morphs. It seems to be two different camps in the world of Carpet Python. It's either you're a caramel person or a red person. There's only a select few like me and Owen that we are on both sides, on both sides of the fence. We do caramel and I enjoy both. I was in preparation for the show. There was a couple things that I wanted to clear with probably the guy that I would say is most experienced with the red morph is Jason Bailon and probably around ten o'clock he's going to be giving a call in to chat with us about the you know the genetics what he's seen you know because the thing with the red is that they don't necessarily hold on the coloration into adulthood. Whereas caramel is more cut and dry, incomplete dominant with the super form. So we'll talk a little bit about the you know the history of it and such and some of the different trains of thought of what people think is going on. I know some people may agree with this somewhat is that some people believe it's the same type of thing just you know like a different version of the same gene so to speak. And to date that I know of nobody has bred the two. Do you know anybody? Red to caramels. Yeah. There's always someone at a reptile show that like comes up and now at various reptile shows there's always somebody who comes over to a table and tells you their plan and sometimes their plan is really good. Sometimes their plan makes you scratch their head. You'll try to talk them out of their plan if it's really kind of weird and a lot of times they won't hear it. So there have been numerous times where people come up to me and they go you know what I'm going to breed a red to a caramel. And the only thing is just like why because it doesn't really help the red it doesn't really help the caramels and the problem is that baby caramels are born red. So basically everything would come out red and you'd be like perfect now what. So then you have to almost wait a year as everything grows up and colors up before you can be like okay you guys are caramels you guys are red so if you're willing to wait a year sure go ahead. But I don't think it would really be beneficial. I don't think the project would really be insane. Plus if I look at what straight up caramel the caramel projects and what JC is doing with his red. What the hell is the point of crossing the two. Why not just have your reds over here and your caramels over here and call it a damn day. Right. That's me and no one listens to me. I'm behind the table. You're just breeding them. Yeah you're just jealous because you never thought of it. Yeah. I have to be honest at some point I will probably do it. And the boy. I just went through a thing. You're not listening to me. I wanted to push that button. So here's the thing it's just my curiosity. I don't have a problem holding on to babies obviously. I don't have big clutches. And more than likely I would just sell them as normals because I don't think you would ever be able to tell unless you do a super caramel if you breed a super caramel to a red then you could say that they're all caramels you know. Yeah but then but then what's the where's the like what's the point of the red. Like are you expecting what colors are you expecting the red to contribute here. I don't know I think it my thinking would be that if it works similar to what you see with who knows man maybe a lusistic would pop out. Why? I don't want to show anymore. Just think about it. What that really worked. I don't know what to do I had to come on here and eat a piece of humble pie that I would be able to do to show anymore and announce my experience. Oh that would be hysterical. I have to have like a living lusistic. How'd you do it? Well I bred a caramel to a red. Turns out I'd want to. I'd want to punch you. Turns out that knucklehead at the reptile show it's on to something. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. I don't know man crazy things have happened. I know crazy things have happened and I know you can never gauge on more whether it's going to pop out of anywhere. But part of me is just thinking just by looking at how reds and caramels work that combining the two isn't really going to do too much. It's almost like if we went further down the road and combined caramel with hypo. I mean what the hell would a hypo caramel look like it would probably look like an ugly or hypo. They have them in Australia. Caramel. They look pretty hot man. I don't know. I'm gauging myself on not having paid attention to that. Alright we'll move along quickly. Yeah we're going to move them quickly. So well before we get into the meat and potatoes of the caramel stuff and we're going to hit on some news. We want to talk about the Northeast Carpet Fest but more importantly what's up with you. What's new at Rogue Reptiles. I got shit hatching. What do you have had? Super caramel jags. It's almost like they knew the episode was going to be today. Oh wow. Okay. Fair enough. I know right. Nobody's out of the egg but they're just tipping. But I am already kind of excited about these guys. I'm kind of waiting for this clutch to hatch. And I've been like checking my incubator because it's like their day 60 is the 14th. So I'm like any day now. Any day now. Any day now. But you guys hurry up and get out of the damn eggs. I'm just watching and I did the whole like every once in a while you check and you see nothing's changed. So you close the door and you're walking halfway. Wait a minute. You go back and you realize that that thing in the corner was the head of a baby popping out of the egg. So it's, it's really cool. I'm waiting for them to come out and I think it's going to be a really cool clutch. And then it was like Christmas here today in the mail came boxes. Yeah. Mark perishable. Mark's perishable. I got, I got in trouble for violating the no snakes allowed in the office. Rule against. Well, he should be used to it by now. So I got a pair of Vietnamese blue beauty snakes. Very cool. That's pretty. Yeah. So how are they? They're really cool. They're really laid back. But they are fast. Like I was holding the female and she's like, you know what? I really don't want to be in your hands anymore. And it was like true. And it was, it just was quick. And it was out. And I'm like, whoa. They're long, they have these big heads. And you expect just by their head. If this were like any other call you bridge, you would just like expect the rest of the body to be much, much bigger. But it's lean and it's thin. And the tail goes on for fricking ever. From like the vent to the tip of the tail is way longer than you ever would. Even on the girl. So it's, they're, they're just insanely long animals. So I'm getting acquainted with them. And they're very, very cool animals. And they're very, very cool stuff. So I'm excited to have them. And then I haven't actually seen the, but with the, with the beauties, the breeder was telling me to feed them like every other day. But feed them like a small meal. Every other day? Wow. Every other day. And I'm like, oh my God, these things might get old real quick. So I'll let you know how this goes. So what do they eat? Like a mouth? Hoppers. Hoppers is apparently. Hoppers. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, she says keeping the meal small and often is better for them. I may take that to heart a little bit, but then kind of try my own stuff from what we've talked to other keepers about, as well as, you know, I don't want to feed them every other day. Feed them every other day. So I will. You lose. That goes. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be fine if we do it my way. So we'll consider that one. And then, yeah, I'm kind of interested to see how that goes. The other thing I got in the mail came from KJ. Oh boy. He KJ just found out that his pair of femur pythons was actually two female femur pythons. So he and I talked and I got a female femur python. So she's not actually with me because I have no room to quarantine for an animal her size. So she's with Andrew and I need to get her as quick as humanly possible. Otherwise, by the time I get her, she will be nine feet because Andrew feeds like a crazy person. So I will let's see. Like their monitor. Yeah. So I'm going to go down and get her as soon as I can, but I'm going to go see her this weekend. But yeah, I have a team more python. So, yeah. Well, you said you're going to find a boy. Yeah. It's one of those, you know, that would be cool. That would be really cool. And then everything kind of aligned and it's like, well, shit. All right. So, yeah. Man, they're definitely a cool looking snake for sure. You know, I hope my hope would be that, you know, you guys are able to reproduce them and move away from that. You know, shit and on your whole thing, you know, I would think that you probably could be, you know. Yeah. But, but yeah, I mean, you know, it's just like, from what I hear from what team wars act like a lot of it is kind of way to describe it. It sounds a lot like how retics and other animals acted when they were in the first couple generations of straight out of the wild, that's right with the pythons. So, you know, it's one of those things where, yeah, I think after a few generations, it would start to settle and who knows, maybe we'll be get some cool pythons. Then you can own them after everybody else does the hard work. Yeah, that's right. I'm that kind of guy. I don't want to do it now. Yeah. High-end, low-maintenance, man. That's how we roll. Right. Right. That's cool. I had a, I had a clutch hatch out. It was the albino to Asilat Jag. And I was telling you before we started that, you know, the jags, although quacky patterns like on it somewhat, for the most part, they kind of look like normal jags, like normal jungle jags. I think their color is going to be pretty intense. And then, you know, the, so I got four jags and four normals, so it was eight. It was really an 11 egg clutch, but three of the eggs went bad. Damn. So, and they were all jags. So, I don't know. I don't know if it's going to be one of those things where if I breed a normal to the jag, then the albinos will pop out and they'll be, you know, Asilat, like, I don't know. Right. So, now the female that I have is not like, she's one of the original, like, looks like some of the original stuff. So, she's not as extreme as, like, some of Mike Curtin's, you know, his clutches from a few years ago or the, like, current year. Right. But I'm curious, I'm going to send him the pictures and see what he thinks and then go from there. But, you know, it's still all in all school to see. And the project will definitely keep going, you know, because I think that they will be pretty cool as an albino. But, I don't know. So, we got that going. Hopefully it's one of those, I mean, like, hopefully it's one of those things of, like, after they shed a few times, you start seeing, like, the little Asilat markers or whatever the hell we're calling them these days. And, you know, it would be, it would be one of those things as it progresses, if your progress is to really start seeing more and more of it. And then you can kind of go from there. So. Yeah, you know, one of the things is that I thought that maybe the, because these, I never took pictures of the snakes. Pre-shed, but I wanted to put it this year on my website, I wanted to show some progression picks. So, I made sure that I took the, you know, like, when I set them up, that I took pictures of them individually. And, you know, so, I don't know. I mean, I was telling you before the show that the Citrus Tiger had albino stuff. I was kind of like, you know, that, I don't know, I kind of felt like the results weren't as good as, like, say, previous year. But now that they're starting to shed, I take that back. You know, it's like, I should have just put them in the tub and forgot about it until they shed. And then, you know, it went from there, but, you know, I don't know. That'll teach me, I guess. So. Now, never again. But, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, that's what we got going on here. The Northeast Carpet Fest is right around the corner. Basically, we're what, a week and a half away. Tell me that, yeah. So, we have what, one day left on the t-shirts? Yeah, this is the last, yeah, this is the last day. So, this is one of those things where it's got to get it done. I'll have to see, did somebody score? Yeah, can you hear them away from upstairs? Yeah, I can. What the hell? Way to go, Jim. For those who don't know, the Pittsburgh Penguins are in the playoffs and are... I'm playing the Washington Capitol and apparently somebody just scored. So, if you listen very softly throughout the entire show, you'll hear Jim screaming from two floors away and zero's reaction to him jumping around like an idiot. So, there you go. Well, we're going to have a word with Jim later, yeah. The services is that, you know, you can listen to the show and know the score all at the same time. See what I mean? Yeah. There you go. Right there. Perfect. I'm trying to look up how, do you know off the top of your head how many, what the count is that for the shirts? The shirts are, we have sold 51 shirts and we have raised over $700. I think we had like 70630, something like that. Okay. So, yeah, we have... No. We're doing very well. No. $750, just looked it up. No, no. We sold some more. Oh, my God. Okay. So, there we go. We're like not paying attention. All right. So, yeah. We got 750 on there. Plus, we have the extra what? Almost 300 from, uh, no. There's 300. 300. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty good. We're looking at over $1,000 to give the U.S. arc and we haven't even done option. There's a few carpets that haven't gone through yet. Yeah. So, our auction is going to start online. Typically, we started the week before. So, probably we'll probably open it up next week on the show. And then, you know, you'll be able to bid throughout the week. And then, if you come to car professed, you will be able to put the final bid on there. If you are interested in donating something, please get in contact with me or Owen, either through Facebook or email info@morreliapipe.radio.com. And we'll get it going and everything so that we can put it together. Already, we have the shirts from Scott and Kai. And they should be pretty cool. And, uh, you know, some other, uh, some other cool stuff. I guess we get the $2,000 voucher from you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They may have added a zero, but yeah. And, uh, let's see. What else do we have? I don't know if there's any other details you have to hit on as far as car professed. It's just in Birdsboro, PA. Yep. It's Saturday, the 21st. Yep. At three o'clock. Uh, hopefully you contacted Owen to tell him what food you're bringing. Uh, God help you if you just show up at my house. God help you. Yeah. Well, good times. Yeah, exactly. Um, so I don't know. There was a couple of things I saw in the pick of the week that I thought was worth mentioning. And then we'll jump into the Carmel's. Um, I don't know if you saw this is a good time of year for the show, actually, because you get to talk about these different things. But, um, Morrelia Trophy Club. I know. Yeah, food, food, food. Um, Morrelia Trophy Club. Uh, he hatched out a clutch of carpondros and Jagpondros. I know that's your favorite thing in the world, Owen. Yeah, I know. It's bill listening because I don't know yet. It might be. It might not. But, um, they, they look nice. They really do. Um, and they do look interesting. And I, it's something about Jagpondros is one of those things that see some people that they kind of are they come in waves. Like all of a sudden people will be all about Jagpondros for a season. And, uh, there'll be some good ones hatched out and then, uh, you never really kind of see him. I don't know if that's because certain Jag, certain carpondros aren't bred too much or you don't see too many people breeding them. But they're really great looking animals. I know. So, uh, the Jagpondros, the Morrelia Trophy Club, did hatch out. They were very good looking animals. So I, I would not be surprised to see some of the major carpondro people built. Um, uh, jump in on getting one or two of those just to add to the group. Um, so, but yeah, they're, they're very cool. I would never own them, but they're very cool looking. Now these are from gamma five. Oh, that changes everything. I must tell. That adds a little bit more of an interesting kind of question mark that goes along with this because gamma is like now we're talking diamond blood. And we're talking all the things that went into gamma are now in like a carpondro. And I don't believe that has diamond ever been involved in a carpondro. I don't think so. Neither, but I think that's the first radio right now. Yeah. So I don't know, but that, that makes it a lot more interesting because if we're already having issues breeding carpondros. Now we're going to try to find one that's like, I don't know. Maybe I want to go down to 60 degrees. So it's like, so it's one of those conflicting things. Is that going to make it harder or easier? So, um, I would be interested to see how these guys fare when they get older when it comes to adding them to the breeding stock that is already kind of tricky. So, yeah, I don't know. Bill had that one carpondro that was like, it looked like it was covered in like blue and gray and had that white belly. You know, the one that already almost pissed all over me. Yeah, that was really, really cool looking. And I hate to admit that it's really, really cool looking because of what it is, but it was really, really cool looking. And it's like, would that be genetic? Would that be inherent? You bred that to like a jag when you're just getting this like blue, crazy kind of jag looks like it's covered in pretty pebbles. I don't know. So, it's something to think about, or will you just get green animals? I don't know, but it is cool. And I see why Bill kind of likes to play with the Dr. Frankenstein stuff. He also likes to stop my heart every 20 minutes by going, you have to be great with that. A rough scale. No. So. Yeah. Don't do it. No. So. Yeah, they're pretty. Yeah, they're cool. I'm going to switch gears though. Like when you start looking at all these mutes and muts, and then you think about, so you said Diamond Python. And this stood out to me this week by this guy, Alex Leith, I think his name is, and he's from Australia. But this Diamond that he posted over in Morelia Pick of the Week, holy shit, man. I do love Diamond. That thing is insane. Oh my God. Just makes me love Diamonds all the more. Who needs morphs when you got something like that? I mean, that's just a killer animal, for sure. So. Yeah. I do something about Diamonds. Like I wish to God I had pulled the trigger on them years ago. Just because I absolutely love my Diamonds and I see what everybody else has with theirs. And it's like, even if it's like a classic, not fricking, like I've never seen a Diamond that was not awesome looking. Like everybody's like, well, that's not really that stellar of a Diamond bullshit. All Diamonds are very, very good looking. I don't know if it's because we're all suckers for the stupid contrast because it's a Diamond, but there's some amazing Diamonds out there. And then I've not found an ugly one. So it's one of those things where, again, I wish I had pulled the trigger on Diamonds years ago. So they're very good looking animals. And that animal that I know the animal you're talking about on take of the week is gorgeous. If you're on the fence about Diamonds, go buy it. Yeah. I'm posting these up in the chat. Okay. We got one more minute. I'll hit on one more thing since we're talking caramel. I don't know if you saw this super caramel jag, this super caramel jag clutch that has some hatched out. Yeah. Let's see. So it had one leucistic and then it had this crazy looking caramel going on. You have really great caramel. Yeah. Really great. I don't know. Yeah. Do you think? I don't know. I don't know. Like, do you think it's possible that, you know, that if you have the caramel and you have a really nice caramel jag and a really nice caramel jag, could you make a better super caramel jag because you're using, it's like getting double the dose almost, you know what I mean? These are the questions we've asked for everything. I mean, we've always said that if you breed a jag to a jag, are you going to get better jags? Are they going to have really good looking back stripes and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah? And what I found is that there are ways to get to what everybody expects out of a jag to jag without actually doing jag to jag. Right. So, I mean, will you get really cool looking caramels, of course, but you got the one dead leucistic and then you got that one dead crazy looking caramel. Now, did that caramel die of, god knows what. So, it's just one of those things where you can't really, you know, no. Did it die because there was something involved with a leucistic part of it? Like, was that technically like a caramel leucie or something stupid like that? Who knows? Right. Or did it die just because of every once in a while you get one that doesn't make it out of the egg and it happened to be that guy. I mean, it just, it happens. I mean, the prettiest jag out of my red jag clutch came out with a messed up head. So, a lot of times when they start developing the development goes sideways, the color doesn't come in fully. When they get ripped out of the egg after you realize they aren't coming out or dead, they look all funky. And then how much is that because they died halfway through and stopped developing their color. So, I mean, I don't know. But it kind of goes back to, again, the argument of everybody thinks if you break jag into jag, you can really reduce jags and break back stripes blah, blah, blah, blah. And what I found is you can do that and avoid the looseies and all that other crap just by breeding the right animals to your jags. Well, I guess let me try to rephrase my question then. If you're selectively breeding for caramel jags and you not necessarily has to be jagged but if you're doing caramel, really nice caramel, to really nice caramel jag, you're going to get really nice caramel. But is it possible that something like this could be produced? That's what I'm trying to get at. You're exactly correct. And again, we've seen that with numerous other projects. If I breed a really nice granite to a really nice head granite, I'm going to get really nice granite, yes, I will still get those ones that maybe aren't the best looking because that's just how it goes. Regardless of what you do, you will get the only ones in the group. So if I bred a really nice caramel to a really nice caramel jag or if you want to take it a step further, if I bred a really nice super caramel to a really nice super caramel jag, yeah, I'm going to get great looking animals. I will get the short ends of the sticker ones where, like, hey, you happen to be the, you know, ugly caramel jag out of the group or something like that. But, you know, even then with all the supers, you'd still get that one super that's like, God, what happened to you? But yeah, if you take the time and produce the projects, it would really work at it. You could make really good looking animals. And maybe if passion does the same pairing next year, an animal that looks like the one that's tied in the egg goes whole term. And it comes out. Yeah. Next year, next year, it gets three more that will just like it to die in the egg. And we have another goddamn question mark to deal with. Yeah. Okay. So we'll just go right into some caramel talk. And then, as soon as we're done that, we'll start talking reds. And we'll get Jason on here and chat about it. So basically, caramel gene has been around for a while, popped out of a clutch. I believe it was in France. And it just surprisingly popped out. They were, they were very black from what we look at today. In 2003, Paul Harris from UK Python. He acquired several pairs of these caramel costals from the breeder who hatched them. And they were from normal looking parents. So, you know, I guess sometimes these things just happened is kind of one of what I was getting at maybe earlier with the previous picture that we posted up. These may be red in color with no noticeable black markings at all. Only very fine brown edging to some of the pattern. He was quite confident that the trait would be reproducible as the babies look different than normal red babies that were sometimes found in coastal clutches. So in 2006, he bred coastal jag to a female caramel. He hatched out some normal looking jags and costals as well as a caramel jag and caramel babies from that pairing. So it seems at that point that the trait was codominant or incomplete dominant. He hatched out the, and he hatched out the double codom caramel jag. In 2007, he tried the same pairing again along with another pairing. He basically had a male caramel to a female caramel jag. Both clutches contain caramel jags and caramels as well as normal jags and costals. He bred a caramel to a caramel for the first time in 2007. The outcome was 19-8 from this clutch. He was also consistent with that being a codominate trait. There were 10 caramels, 5 normals, and 4 super caramels. These supers were even brighter in their color. And then the caramel clutch mates and completely lacked any dark scales or markings altogether. So there was nothing on them. In 2009, he had a male super caramel to a normal coastal and hatching all caramel babies finally proved the mutation to be codominant. It's funny, I remember when Dick Mutton was telling me about that particular pairing that he did. It seems so long ago, Jesus, 2009. So they come out red, reduced areas of black, and as they age, the red reduces and has increasing amounts of yellow pigment. Adults typically have a distinct golden or bronze hue to them. The only issue that I would say with caramels would be two things. One, I think that they go through this ugly phase when they're about a year old. It seems like when the color seems to switch and the red starts to go away, so to speak, and that bronze starts to come in. And they're very variable. So you can have a clutch where you have caramels that actually look like they're normal. Which kind of throws a monkey wrench into things. Because they're just ugly, maybe just ugly caramels, I guess. They are. When I look at the caramels that I had from 2009, and I think your caramels are from the same year, right? 2009? Yes, they are. I don't know, man. They don't look nothing like what the caramels look like today. In just a few short years, the gene has been really refined, I think. What are your thoughts? I would agree, and it's weird because the first caramels that I got, because I had the 2009 caramels, same as you. And if you lined up our three caramels from 2009, it's like Venus is very blotched, Mars was very banded. That one female you had was just really all caramoly colored and looked completely different. Just the three of them, which are all siblings, very different, very varying levels of caramel color, and a lot of black on all of them. And that's what kind of surprised everybody, especially when I produced the caramels for the first year myself, is like there's a lot of black on them. I'm like, "Well, go yourself. You don't have to buy it." It's one of those things where everybody assumed, because that's the other thing, is that all you saw were the top baby out of the clutch being shown by Paul. So everybody assumed caramels automatically had no black on them. I was like, "No, no, no, the supers have very little black on them." Caramels can still have black on them. So again, that's what you said was one of the most frustrating parts is the uglier caramels looked like normal babies for the first year. And so all of a sudden you open the bin and it's like, "Boom." You're like, "God damn it." So, but it was definitely one of those things that kind of got me onto the caramel kick was looking at that picture that Paul Harris posted up of the first super caramel jag. It was this gold animal with just little flecks of black on all down it and black on the head and I'm like, "Oh, my God." And I wanted that thing so badly. So, and my caramel is kind of just fell into my lap. I haven't been on phone at the right time and they popped up. So, they are definitely very, very variable. Yeah, I mean, I've just posted three picks over in the chat. The first pick is the caramel baby. And it's one of the original caramels, what they kind of look like. You can see the black that's on there. I mean, it's a nicer looking animal. It's nicer than a, like say, a normal coastal, but, you know, not anything like the picture below, which is a caramel jag. I believe that's a super. And you can see where there's no black on that baby at all. As opposed to the one that's up above where you can see the very thin outlines of black. Now, when you hatched them, I mean, what do you typically see? Like, what have been your results? How have you, you know, when I first got my guys to hatch. I first, my first group of, um, my first clutch was caramel to tiger. I don't know why because I was stupid. Um, and I got like one calmly looking red one and everybody else looked normal. So, and they all left. But from breeding, the following year was, I did, uh, caramel to caramel. And that's when I got my first clutch of, uh, supers. And the babies I got from the supers where the ones I got from that clutch, you can't tell the supers are right off of that because they were almost, they had pattern, but they didn't have the black markings you would normally see around the, uh, the animals like that. So I'm going to post up on the, uh, Facebook chat. One of my super karmals is a hatchling and then her now. So you can kind of see already how that kind of went through. She was born with very little. Black, very little, you know, color. A lot of really nice kind of deep caramel almost like you'd say like that bronze color and that was her fresh out of the egg. So after a couple of years, you can see the copper has really kind of come in the caramel colors colors come in and then also the black has shown up. And she really only gets black around her head and then you get further down her body. It goes from being a little flex to black. She's got a lot of black on her tail. So that's, that's Dakota. So, um, and then if you look, adding the JAG into caramel seems to help even further. So this was one of my super caramel jags is a hatchling and then that's her now. So you can kind of see adding the JAG, adding JAG into super caramel kills the black. It just, it rips it away to the point where she's already two and a half. Almost three and she still just has very, very little black. She's got some on her head and she's got some kind of going around on her sectional picture of her. But you can see she's kind of getting, getting a little bit of black on her saddles, but that's it. So that's why in my opinion, super caramel jags is some of the prettiest little bastards ever. So, and just for giggles, that's a caramel tiger as a baby. So, as you can see, it's dark red. So, yeah, those were the super caramels and the caramels. What I found is that you can still get that variability where it's a little tricky to tell when they're just hatched. What I kind of look for is bright and what the hell is that? It's like an owl creature. Who posted that? Oh, some sort of owl creature throwing money. What the hell? Anyway, I guess I'll look at the chat. But what I found is that when the, when the super caramel baby's hatched, I look for bright color and I look for as little definition in the pattern as I can find it. Because those are the ones that are going to be your good looking super caramels. And I've had some insanely bright super caramels that have a ton of black on them. It just kind of is a little bit of a kicker. So, I was trying to breed this year was going to be my first year getting my super caramels to breed. But they did not go for me. I was trying to breed one of my super caramels to an exam. So, because I was doing that. That would have been nice. It would have been. But like I said, it's almost like, and I almost want to say it's almost like what you were looking for with the reds. When they just hatched before they even had their first shed. I look for severely reduced pattern and little to no, little to no dark scales around their saddles. Because as they get older, those dark scales are going to be the ones that turn black burst. And if I can find one that has no dark scales around any other saddles, that's going to be the one I'm going to hold on to. Because dark scales are going to come. Black scales will appear regardless of what you do and dipping and all that fun stuff. Well, if you can kind of head it off with a pass a little bit. Yeah. I'm going to post up some. So, caramel, caramel effects. I'm going to throw up some of the crazy caramel morph stuff. Well, it seems to me like caramel and anything granite. A caramel jag that's just had granite is what I'm going to post up. Yeah. This thing is insane. It's just nuts. I'm going to quick post up. That's my, this is, I'm posting up my original female caramel Venus. So that's what, like that, in my opinion, that is a base caramel. Yes. Like I said, she's like, first, she's like, oh, nine. So she's not the most refined of the caramels. But that is what a base caramel can look like. Actually, she's gravid is shit in that picture. I forgot. I shoved her in a bucket when she was gravid because I'm a terrible owner. So, I took pictures of her. So it's one of those things that your, your caramel can have a lot of black on it. And that's just because in my opinion, I think we've really done a lot of the refinement that we've seen in other morphs to kind of dilute down the black. We're getting there, but we still need a little bit more time. Yeah. So I just posted up a possible super caramel zebra jag. I'm trying to find those other like caramel zebra stuff that I had. Because if you look at the original caramel zebra stuff that I had, it's, it's similar to what you're seeing with your caramel. You know, that girl, you just posted up. I mean, it's, it's nice. It's a nice snake, but so much more refinement can be done. I'm afraid that like when it comes to carpet python morphs that I hope we don't get into habit of just like throwing, you know, snakes together and hoping that a morph pops out. I mean, I know that that has to happen sort of in the beginning to sort of establish the morph, you know what I mean? Right. This is a super caramel zebra jag adult. This is my male breeder. And I mean, like the refinement of stuff is worthy to go shut up. I kind of like stop talking at the same time I'm looking at pictures so I don't really know what to do. Anyway, the refinement of stuff is where I think carpet python get their stronger quality. So throwing animals together, yeah, you'll get your morph, but I think you'll get better morphs. If you take the time to really make sure you have a good looking animal going through another good looking animal. It's one of those you want to make sure that, you know, I want to make sure that my caramel jag is going to be bred to my caramel right now, but a little bit further down the road. Once my super carmels are ready, am I really going to be breeding it to my caramel anymore? Probably not because the super carmels are much prettier than she is. So it's like eventually she will be replaced to produce better looking offspring. So, yeah, yeah. I don't know, let's see, as far as crazy combos. I'm trying to find that. So when I did caramel, super caramel zebra jag to caramel zebra. See, this is a, this is why it's not fair for Australia. This is what they have. Shut the door. Shut the door, man. That's not fair at all. I can't seem to find the pick. All right, well, I'll find it and post it as we go. Anyway, that's some of the, with the zebra stuff in it. I mean, when it comes to, I've done the clutch of caramel jag to caramel. And some of the, I mean, the babies were okay. I did notice though, I don't know if you've seen the same thing, that the babies, the jags from that clutch are Noro as hell. Yes. Have you seen that? Yes. Yes. Yeah, I have with, like, I had like a lot of the, we're talking caramel jags, right? Yes. All right, I had, I've had several caramel jags. They just like the first couple of feedings with them was an absolute bear because every time I open the vendor like do it. And you can't really show them the food item when they're like laying on their heads. So, but they did tend to calm down and I did only keep the ones that were really good at it. Or, you know, not narrowed, but I have had probably some of the worst narrows ever at a breeding my caramel jags. The point where I had one baby that actually had to put down because it could do, it couldn't even move. It was just flopping around the cage. So, yeah, it kind of does affect the narrow a little bit. Okay. I noticed that. I don't know if you noticed that, but man, for some reason I can't add Jason in to the chat. So, somebody's going to have to get kicked out. Yep. Yep. I think we, we've hit our vote. Other body. Yep. Other body. You're now removed from the NPR. Yeah. Yeah. I voted you all. Fairland. Fairland. Fairland. Yeah. We must have hit our max capacity with a, with a PM on Facebook. I don't know. So, real quick, go over the combos of what's been done. And maybe talk about, you know, what some of our plans or some, you know, things that we might think is cool. And then Jason will call in and then we'll talk about the red stuff. So obviously, caramel jag's been done, caramel tiger's been done, tiger jag, caramel zannock is basically a ghost, I guess. And that's what it's been called. Yeah. And caramel zannock jag. So, ghost jag. They're all pure coastal. Am I forgetting that? I think I have them. Hit them all. That makes so unhappy. Anyway. But yeah, I think you got those. And then there was the deviation where they took caramel and went that way and made a bunch of interesting stuff like caramel zebras, caramel zebra jags, and then the super forms of both. They have not, they have not made super caramel tigers yet. Have they? No, I have not seen that yet. I believe they have been produced. I believe they have been produced, but I have not seen a picture of it yet. Okay, we'll get on that later. The, they've also produced in with the albinos. So, and they pretty much made those, and they're calling those sun glows. So there have been sun glows and sun glow jags. And I guess the next step would be what? There's sun glow zebras, sun glow zebra jags. Let's say the next step is to start mixing that in with everything else. Yeah. We haven't had caramel granite, have we? Yeah, caramel. Yes. Have we had, do we have super caramel granite? Yes. Okay. So the next thing would be a super caramel granite jag. Correct. Okay. Don't have that yet. No. It's been done? Yeah. No. All right. Have you ever seen our website? No, I don't look any. Oh my gosh. I wait for you. Shut up. I'm going to go over your house and start pulling bins. And then I start doing what the hell is it? So. I'm going to post a link basically in this link. It has our page on our website where it has all of the different morphs, which most of the ones that we just listed are on there. Actually all of them are on there. You can see them all. Let me get the chat back up. Okay. We'll throw that in there. And then we'll also post that on the Marilla Python radio Facebook page. So if you want to go and click on that. If you're streaming the episode, you can go check that out. If you're at work and poke around the caramel and the red portion of that webpage. So. So. So. So. Yeah. And don't forget caramel super zebras have been done. Super caramel. Peepers have been done. Ocelot caramel jags have been done. Yeah. And we also have. Do I mean, if we count the stuff that's in some glow, haven't we gotten like some glo zebra's and. Well, I should know that because I'm pretty sure you made the sun glo zebra's. So. And other things like that. So that's technically in the caramel. How? Yeah. So. And then. There's. Pretty sure that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Well, the last one would be. We talked about ghost. We talked about go go jags now. They've been done both with the coastal aganic and also with the eye jags. Personally, if you're doing crosses, I think the eye jags. It's nicer, but that's just my personal opinion. It's got a nicer color. The. Also, the ghost zebra jag has been done. So. You know, lots of cool stuff for sure. You know, I don't know what happens when hypo starts getting mixed in with this stuff. Hypo caramel weird. Is it like, you know, and I, and I've talked about this with a few people and it's like, what are we going to start calling ghosts when the hypos get here? I'm like, we're going to have to call them true ghosts because we've all burned the bridge down because ridiots. So, you know, that's, it's going to end up happening is where it's going to have to call them ghosts and then true goats. Yeah, which I think is stupid, but. Talked about it on the screen before I think. We've gotten to that point now where it's like, I can't call them a caramel aganic to then people go what now? There's a god damn it. Everybody knows it as a ghost and it's not a ghost. It's a caramel aganic. Right. There's a god damn it. So, I think that's pretty much it. I mean, as far as what I'm working with, as far as caramel goes. Let's see, I have caramel granets, caramel granite jags. I have caramel zebras, caramel granite zebra. I forgot about that. I have one of those. Super zebra caramel super zebra jags. Now, I did produce what I thought was a super caramel super zebra jag, but it died. It's the one with the part. It was far too much super to live. Yeah, right. It was super super. Super super super in debt. So, you know, as far as the caramel goes, it seems like I play more with the crosses when it comes to caramel stuff. And when it comes to the pure stuff, I have more of the red stuff, which is sort of what we're going to get. It's sort of what we're going to get into next with Jason. So, I guess when I think of red, you know, Jason probably has the nicest group or collection of reds. Let me see if he's, yeah. Yeah. Around, if it click on. Oh, God. What do we get? No, he's there. Jason, you there? Hey, I'm here. Hey, how are you guys? Good. And we're all right. Now that we talked about the caramel, we're going to talk about the red gene. So, is it safe to say that the red gene pretty much came from Madam Blueberry and Benjamin? Is that where it originated from? It did. I mean, I think originally it probably followed the Madam Blueberry gene track more so than Benjamin would be my guess. Okay. But the offspring, you know, obviously we're from both. And I'm watching. Okay. I'm going to post the pic. I can't let you into the chat. I don't know why. It won't let me put that on. We have to try to add you. It won't come on there. It's very frustrating. We have to kick Buddy's Tony freak out in order to put you in. He'll be all right. I understand though. Yeah. But. I just put a picture of Madam Blueberry up in the chat and it's like the smallest picture in the world. But that's the only picture I can find of her. Yeah. Very little pictures of her since Wilte have done his website or took her down from that part. It's like there's nothing of her. But that's where all the red stuff that you have originated. Like all your stuff can be traced right back to her. Jason, did you kind of add some more blood from other animals? It all can be traced back to her. I mean, obviously I've added other blood in there but not to contribute to the red only to be able to get the red to be produced from other animals. Gotcha. So I guess the big question is the genetics of the red. What are your thoughts? What have you seen to date with your parents? I guess what, how I can describe it because I'm not entirely sure yet how the genetics are working other than it seems to be very similar to the tiger and it's sort of a polygenic trait. Breeding a red animal to something completely unrelated and non-red yields red offspring. Now you get varying degrees, you get some that are nicer than others, some that are very red to the point where they hatch out and they almost look albino to where you have animals that are just like sort of almost a coffee color. And you run the whole spectrum in between. So, and that's how the original one was produced. I took a madam blueberry offspring that I had bought from somebody way back in the day and bred him to something completely unrelated and that's what produced my original red animal. Oh wow, okay. So what about as far as, so it used to be up until I guess a few years ago, most of the red stuff as it would age would sort of just looks sort of like a really high end, really nice contrasty coastal. But you told me that you have two adults that have kept that color? I do. I have two adults that have held their red color all the way through. Then I've got a few adults that I, because I've bred the red into the tigers, I've got two adult female tigers from that red line that are sort of an in-between red. And if I can get on the chat, I'd be able to show you guys exactly what I'm talking about because I've got pictures of all of it. I'll pick it out so I can get it. Yeah, me and then I'll put them on the chat. Yeah, okay. I'll do that as we go. Easy. So yeah, that's where it originated from, and that's where that male came from, and it all traced back to her. Okay. Well, is she just kind of like this weird freak of nature where it just happened to be that way? Because, I mean, looking at her, I mean, I know that her pictures of her were like in sunlight, and there are very few pictures of her bouncing around. She looks like a very kind of nice coastal, but doesn't look anything crazy about her. So was there just something in her that somehow just made all this stuff? It seems to be, and, you know, she was, I mean, at first glance a normal-looking coastal, but she was very, very silver. And apparently she was also a red baby, and her red didn't follow the same track of some of the stuff that we're working with now. Obviously she turned silver, which is interesting because some of the offspring from my original pairing that produced that red male also have a silver tint to them. The ones that once didn't go red have a very, have a very silver sort of overcast to them. Very cool. Okay. I have, I think I may have added you in there. I don't know. You may be. Oh, my God. What did we do? If you go to your PMs on Facebook, do you see something called NPR chat? Okay, hold on one second. You know, we're going to do technical stuff. In the meantime, I posted up pictures of, and this, everything pretty much I have came from Jason except for my one red jag, which came from Lionel, but from the same lineage. These are younger picks. There's the red coastal at the top, then there's a red jag and a red tiger, and then there's a red tiger. AKA Molly Ringwald that I got from. Yeah. Who Jason produced. Yes. Yeah. You know, there's. If I could steal the animal from you, I would. Me too. I'd like to steal it back. Not going to happen. There's a line now. I'm just thinking like, when if we're talking back, you know, in the day, the one thing that was always kind of like one of those things that really kind of bounced around was the red hypo stuff and we're talking back in like. 2008, seven, where it was like every non yellow jag was told to be a red hypo jag. Yeah. And is that anything to really do with tea? I mean, I know that was probably just a stupid ploy to get chits old, but. Did any of those kind of work their way into your red project and yield good results when it came to the red? Well, I never really subscribed to the whole red hypo jag mania. And with that being said, I do use some of my red jags, you know, to make these, you know, the red coastal offspring. And they do seem to lend themselves to producing some really nice red babies. Yeah. But as far as them being, you know, that red hypo moniker, I thought was always misleading. Yeah. Yeah, I would too. But yeah, I've kind of found that because I have a red jag from UN08 and he produced a really good looking tiger jag and then the offspring from that tiger jag have just been really nice reduced red kind of crazy colors. So I could see how that would work out, what kind of stuff like that. So it's very cool, but they all came from that red tri-stripe male of yours. Can you kind of talk about him a little bit? Yeah, a completely and totally unrelated project. I got a red tri-stripe male from Will Leary back in the day and he sired, you know, a couple clutches before he passed away. And that's where, you know, the red project for me started, but quickly took a detour when I produced that unrelated mad and blueberry red. And so I ceased working, trying to get that red to express itself better and switch totally to working with that mad and blueberry red offspring. Very cool. I'm posting up to pictures of them over in the chat. I still can't get on the chat, by the way, just to say. We had a wonderful technical difficulties. So it says you're in there. I don't know. That's weird. I don't know where to go. It's just on your Facebook messages. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Oh, whatever. Oh, and we stopped. What the hell? I know. All right. Well. Quit and go to GTP keeper. Apparently it's true. Yeah. So I do have, I did, I did go to your page, Jason, and I did, I think this is the one. I posted it up a second ago that you were talking about that almost looks albino. Yeah. It has like no black on it at all. No. That's pretty. That is pretty easy. Now does it develop any black. Yeah. The black, well, it doesn't have any black. Okay. But some darker pigment will come in and it really kind of presents itself more as a lavender than it does a black color. So the adult male that I use for most, all the, all the, I'll spend a lot of produce over the years, he does, he has darker pigment, but it's not black. Like I said, it's more of a sort of a lavender color, a dark lavender color. So yeah, which would suggest or imply that it could be some kind of hypermelanistic trait. And certainly working to try to see if you could prove that out. I tried to breed him back to some of his offspring this season. I don't think that either one of those pairings took, unfortunately, but that will have to remain to be seen. So. Right. Okay. But, but the red itself, it's, it, the mode of inheritance seems to be, you know, you know, you want to call it polygenic, co-dominant, incomplete dominant. I don't know what the best term is for it, but you will get red offspring by breeding one of these red animals to something completely unrelated. Okay. That's awesome. So I was reading, this is way back, this is on MP and they were basically talking about how they thought it was something similar to because it has the southern coastal in it. That this is why they were popping out. Do you think that that has anything to do with it? I mean, I think the lineage of Madam Blueberry, providing that Jan Eric was telling the truth, was Brisbane Coastal's. Do you think that's why we're seeing the red in this? It may or well could be, not knowing for sure where these animals came from. And the Brisbane's obviously present, you know, a very red, you know, background color. So that where it very well could be the case. I think with this line of animals, I think there's something a little bit more going on. Okay. And hopefully within the next year or two, we'll be able to pinpoint exactly what it is with some line breeding and some, you know, because I've got all the unrelated test breedings. I've got, I've got all those results. And then, you know, again, you're getting red babies right off the bat. So, but I think some of the, you know, line breeding pairings, we might be able to pinpoint a little bit more what's going on. Wow. Well, that's cool. What do you have this year lined up as far as red goes? What do you, what do you hope to believe? The exact same pairings I did last year did take. I've got two clutches. One bread to a completely unrelated, um, a baron tiger that which yields those like super red offspring right off the bat. And I bred him back to his sister who also, that also yields some red offspring. But the sister's offspring was a little different in that you had many more levels of red. You had like the dark baron levels. You had the bright, bright, bright reds. And then you had some stuff that's in between. And that was a little different than some of my earlier breedings with unrelated animals. And that I always got a, you know, a sort of a gradient of red. But when I did it with the sister, I got different types of red. So I've got this like sort of brick red color, this sort of pastel pinkish red color. And then you've got the bright, you know, almost albino looking color. So there was a little bit more going on when I bred him back to a related female. Huh. That's interesting. With the unrelated stuff, if I got, you know, sometimes I would or would not get the bright red ones. I would always get sort of, you know, a range of red. But they were all kind of the same type. It was just different levels, different shades of the same type of thing. With the sister, there were a couple different types of red going on. Mainly, but then I had never seen that sort of like maroonish, pastelish color before. Huh. I wonder if it's this one that I just posted up. I wouldn't know. Hold on. Let me see. I'm going to send it to you and see if it's it. This is hard to multitask and talk. Okay. Okay. The one you just sent me is his direct sibling from just a different year. And he still holds all that red color right now. He's an adult. Okay. And he's possibly father to clutch. I'm waiting to see if it took to us a smell red, which is the same line of animals. Right. Now, here's another question for you. You know the tiger jag sibs stuff that you have? And that's kind of related to this as well. But with that, you get also reds. And you get the, would you say what, bone white type of coastal as well? I do. So, yeah. And it's interesting. I get them in the exact, I get those types in the same clutch when I breed it to a red animal. So last year, like, so I've got five or six jags out of a reduced pattern, sort of reddish tiger jag, and literally split down the middle. I had six jags. Three of them were the bone white color jags. And three of them were, you know, reds of varying degrees. So it was, there was some, that's interesting that you mentioned that because that's the exact result I got. So I'm going to send you a picture. Hold on. And I got from you that I was telling you earlier that this is just a weird year for me anyway, for coastal's. My coastal's are ovulating now. So I don't know if that means that I'm going to get a clutch at some point. But this girl, I had her with a red male to see what would happen. But she's gotten, like, whiter. She used to be that, that dipping used to be redder. But that's a crazy looking snake. Yeah, I love that. That's a beautiful snake. I like that one. Yeah. I'm going to post it in the chat now. Okay. So that's, that's pretty cool. Owen, are you alive there or what? He fell asleep. See that he can get out of chat so I can get in then. Yeah. I'm kicking him out. Did I lose? Oh wait. He's on home. There you are. Thank you. I love it. I like when you're awful quiet. He's just crying. Well, we've been talking to myself for 10 freaking minutes. Oh, go ahead. Never mind. It's over now. But, you know, my phone cracks had to come back in. Okay, I'm so glad you're paying attention to things. But anyway, Jason. I just sent you a picture of that weird sort of pastel colored one, Eric. Okay. Going back, Jason, to that 2015, like albino looking animal. He said you repeated that pairing this year, right? I did. Are you hoping to get more of him? Because, like, what has he done in the past year color-wise? Like, has he progressed any further? Has he gotten, like, a little bit more of a darker color? Or is he just still, like, blowing your socks off? Um, he's got some dark color to him. Again, but it's not black. Okay. So, um, it's different. I'll see if I can get a picture here of him and get it to you guys. But, um, yeah, and a lot of those babies went out the door this year. Um, and a lot of different people have them. So, it'll be interesting to see, you know, what they go to as far as color-wise. It's, like I said, it's an interesting and frustrating gene at the same time. Because you don't know what the individual animal is going to do. Right. Um, and you're trying to base it off of the ones that you've produced in the past. And, you know, it's okay. Yeah, this is what this one looked like when it was a baby. And, boom, it goes completely different. Because, like, if you look at the one that Eric posted, it's, like, that rusty red color. Um, he looks nothing like his brother. Which is, um, and I'll shoot that to Eric as well. Um, which is more of the traditional, what we, what we consider that, that sort of reddish, pastel reddish color. Right. So, again, and they, and they hatched out and they looked identical when they hatched out. So, that's sort of the, that's sort of the weird thing going on with this particular line of animals. So, is that him, the albino looking one, they sitting on me. I guess that white hair, this is, like, you took it at a show. You're sitting in the black. Yeah. No, that, that's the one. That one is that weird sort of pastel maroon color that was different. Yeah. From all the other ones. Damn it. They're both awesome. So, um, I remember seeing him a bunch. Yeah, that, that, that, that last one right now, right? Wow. Yeah. So, it's, uh, I guess that's the weird thing about this one. There, there's so many different types coming out, you know, when, when bred to different types to animals. So, now I just sent Eric and if he gets a chance, he can post it. This is the, this is the original red male that I produced as an, and that's what he looks like as an adult. So, right, yeah, I got a good on that in a minute. Yeah. I'm standing in it. Oh, yeah. Him. Yeah. He was, uh, I remember seeing, I remember seeing him as a baby at one of the shows when, you know, he, he really kept a lot of his red color. And I, I know you were excited about that one when he started, like, getting bigger and keeping it. So, that was good. I like the red, the red one from this year's being a jackass and won't let me photograph it. [laughter] Passhole. [laughter] I think I like that one. The pastelli looking thing is pretty wild, man. Yeah. Well, it would be cool. And I mean, like, Jason, do you think it's just kind of like where eventually you'll set up almost like three different types of red? Where, just by breeding the pastelli ones, the pastelli ones to get more of those and sell reddish albino ones to each other to get some more of those. So, eventually you'll have red, but almost like three different categories of it. I would love to be able to isolate it like that. I don't know if that would be the case, though. I think, you know, just as, you know, because we deal with carpet pythons, everything is so variable. And unless you're working with a strictly recessive trait with these animals, it's really hard sometimes to nail down exactly what you're going to get. Right. So, I'm taking the course of, you know, just trying to refine using like animals at the same time I'm also trying to test to see what it does when bred with, like I said, unrelated animals, when it's bred with siblings, when it's bred to its own offspring. I think those are the test breeding that will need to be done in order to isolate what's exactly going on with the red. And in my opinion, over the last year or so, more so, the darker pigment, because I think the darker pigment holds the key to what's going on as far as keeping them light and pastel looking like that. Really? The red, I think, you know, obviously that's your base color, and it's interesting, and the ones that are holding it into adulthood, it's fantastic. But if you really want them to keep them looking like that, you have to keep that darker pigment reduced. Right. I think that's the root, you know, I need to go in order to get ones that I can say here, oh, and take this one, this one's going to be a nice, you know, light red, pastel color adult. Because I know right now it's hard for me to do that, because I don't know what they're going to do as adults, and I'm getting just varying degrees of results as far as, you know, at the age. Now, you've, from what I've seen, the ones that are holding that adult, that color into adulthood are very banded. Do you have anything that's striped, like really nicely striped? I do, it's not quite as red as the father, but I think it's heading in the right direction. I don't see if I can find it, and I'll send it to Eric. Also, I'd be curious, go ahead. No, go ahead. I was going to say, I was going to ask what your results of the clutch were, like as far as striping, when you're breeding it to like a banded animal like that. Are you getting a lot of striping, a little striping, some couple of really nice ones, and the rest are. Well, it's, again, it's interesting, because, you know, I have to pick the two different morphs that are typically hard to explain. The tiger and this red stump. And so, to make the waters even murkier, yeah, I'm going to go ahead and put them together. Yeah, yeah. Perfect. That's good on me. But yeah, I got sort of the same type of results I would expect when breeding a tiger with an unrelated animal, which is like 50% of the clutch was somewhat partially striped. Well, varying degrees of stripes, I'll say you've got some fairly nicely striped animals with nothing that you would consider like the classic tiger looking animal. But, again, varying degrees of stripes. And then, again, a couple of that with half of a red, half of a mark, because I put it in the other morph in there that's red. I guess what I was maybe trying to ask is like the two genes aren't like fighting each other type of thing, right? No, because I don't think the two genes really have anything to do with each other, so they're not fighting each other. They're actually just, you know, looking to find their place on the animal as their own gene. They're not, like, so the red's not fighting with the stripe. It's the red's fighting with whatever the normal base color would be. I mean, like a wild caught looking animal. Is this picture you just sent me, is that related to Molly Ringwell? Yes, it may even be the same clutch. Okay. So, and you can see that sort of an in-between almost, yeah, I hate to use the word more like a caramel type looking animal. Yeah, rather than the red and it's sort of a in-between stage, right? Yeah. How fast do they change? Are you looking at, within a year, you could kind of tell what's going to go on with them? Okay. Within a year, you'll know. Even after, when the albano-looking ones come out, even after two or three sheds, you're starting to see the purple scales come through. Okay. So it happens that quick. It does happen pretty quickly. That's cool. Please really send me kind of know what you're looking at. I mean, I've been looking at the red's and I'm probably about a year away from taking the plunge. I'm going to let you do all the hard work first. And then I'll jump in after you're done making like, yeah, no, I'm always. You got to pay for it's hard work. What the heck? Yeah, well. All right. How would am I going to ambush them at a average of grace and it'll be good? So is the future of this project similar to like what you did? I mean, I think back to your interview with, when I first heard on reptile radio where you were talking about just trying to refine the tiger gag and make the pinstripe type of thing. Is that sort of the direction you're going with this project, just trying to refine the red? Not really cross it into anything crazy. Just kind of like really trying to nail it down or? Well, yes, and maybe not so much. I have, and most of what I've done up to near this point, I haven't really crossed species except for some coastal jungle stuff. But, yeah, I would love to see along the lines of the sun glow stuff. I'd love to see sort of a blood red albino. And I don't know if you've ever seen those blood red bellas. Yeah. Yeah. Something along those lines. So, yeah. Stay tuned. We'll say, yeah, that would be cool. Are you thinking of maybe trying to get some more jagged blood mixed in with the MBB reds? Yeah. And I've got, I do have some of that currently. And I'm trying to produce some stuff from it. I've got a nice MBB Snell jag that I'm trying to get to go. She only produced one good egg last year for whatever reason, so. Great. And she's acting gravid now. I'm in Eric's boat as well. Everything for me is going fairly late. I had animals breeding up until like two weeks ago, so. Yeah. Same here. So, who the hell knows? A very strange season for sure. Yeah. I'd wear some weather. So. Yeah, I guess. Huh. Okay. But those would be cool to see. The kind of red jag stuff, almost like you're going to create the red hypo things, like that'll actually match the damn title. So. And I also planned to breed some asantic stuff into it as well. And go to try to go for a different line of ghosts than the caramel stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So you think the red would act a lot like the caramel in there, and you would get an actual visual kind of thing there? That's the plan. But again, it's been so variable trying to work with this gene and trying to isolate stuff. And I know Nick Mutton's probably saying it's taken him long enough. He should know by now, but guess what I don't. These things take time, damn it. It's hard. Man, there's so freaking bear. And you've got to raise females up. So you're looking at, yeah. That's the hard part. The males, like you can have them up within two years and they'll go. But the females, you've got to wait a little bit. Yeah. I think that looking at that one that stayed red into the adulthood, that male you have, I'm thinking like put that with an examic, that's going to be hot. Because I think it too. I really think that it'll produce some unique looking animals, especially the second generation, once you breed offspring back together. Hell yeah. Because, I don't know, the caramel's kind of like yellow. I don't know. But this almost looks almost hype like examtikish-esque, I would say. More so than when I see with caramel, if that makes sense. And nothing against the caramel's because I think they produce some really nice animals. But like you said, they go yellow. And that's not what I was looking to do. I was really looking to get to stay red. Right. And that's why I decided to switch directions on it because once that thing was produced, and I saw what it did into adulthood, it said to me maybe we can establish a line of animals that will look like this. Yeah. So. Hmm. Do you have, we were talking about this at the beginning of the show, but do you have any thoughts on what would happen if you bred the red to the caramel? Um. I have thoughts and I don't know whether they're right or they're wrong. I think you, you know, best case scenario, you get, you get a nice marrying of the two. So you get a nice red looking animal that has some yellow undertones to it. Um. But I honestly, I don't know what it would do. I think you would get right off the top. I think you would get a mishmash of the plush of stuff you really couldn't tell. What's red? What's caramel? Um, it would be, it would be a difficult project, in my opinion, just from an identification standpoint. Yeah, because you couldn't, how could you sell anything from it, you know? You can't. Yeah. I mean, you'd have to sell it as, as, you know, I'd go to the parents, you know, enjoy. Right. See what you'd do to make with them because we have no idea as of yet. Yeah. Yeah. And we've been at that, Jason and I have been at the shows where the guys pinging between our two tables, like asking what we both thought of red cross with caramel. And we kind of both give them the same kind of answer, and yet he's still paying me back and forth. But they're almost like they don't believe us. So, uh, go figure one of those things. Yeah, that's a freaking bit. So, um, I mean, it would, it would be really nice if it was just a simple recessive trait, and you could explain it as exactly that. But with, with like a lot of these carpet morphs, it's just, it's not like that. And, you know, you hesitate all, you know, at the same time, even calling it a morph. Because, you know, it's a variation on, on, you know, on the original wild caught theme. It's not, you know, it's a color variation. I just don't know that I would call it a morph yet. Now, if I could, if you could prove that it's some, that it's a hypo of some kind, then you can go down that road, I think. But until you do that, you know, I hesitate even calling it that. I just, you know, I just call it a red line of animals that we're working on. Line breeding, you know, and, and, and producing them on a regular basis with some, with some sort of consistency. Okay. That would be nice. That makes sense. Yeah. What do you think, uh, once the hype, you think, you think, uh, the hypo come in here, we'll throw a wrench in, in caramel and red or... Met everybody up. Um, I don't know, I don't know if it'll mess it up or it'll enhance it, to be honest. Right. Um, once you start breeding some of these different lines into, into the true hypo line, you, you, you're going to get some really interesting looking animals that are hypo, but with some really interesting color to them as well. So, uh, you know, again, it'll be tough because it'll be a mishmash of animals when you start, first start doing it, but, um, you, I think you definitely will see some benefit from adding that, that gene into our current, you know, pooled animals. Well, I posted up this picture, I'm going to afford it to you so you can see what I'm talking about, but this is what they did in Australia with that. Um, and it's like an orange animal. It's, it's pretty wicked, you know. And then I like, I just got it. What is the age of this animal that still looks fairly young? Uh, I'm not really sure. I want to say it's probably within a year. Yeah. Yeah. Still probably still pretty young. Yeah. No. But it, I mean, it's definitely interesting and it's definitely what you would want to, that's what you would want to, to, to breed towards. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Because it, it's, it's, it's a really neat looking animal. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder what happens to that as an adult, you know, what. Well, I'm already seeing some sort of dark scales coming through on it in a couple different spots, but if it even retains, you know, a fraction of what it looks like there, you're looking at, you know, you're looking at a different ball game from what we have here. Yeah. It might not be a black, dark color that comes in on those scales, but it is going to be a darker color. So you, you are going to get a mismatch of a pattern. So, or something tipping coming in. So it will look different, but still it's going to look like it's on fire after the day and time. So yeah, it's, it's an awesome looking animal, but I don't know. I, I think you're heading down the road, you know, if you, when you start doing all this stuff, you, you pick the best looking animals out of, out of these different options that are going to be produced. You know, those are your ones you're going to use to breed and, and create even different looking animals down the road. So it's going to be a, a selective breeding process, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that it's going to, I, I think it's kind of going in the root of some similar to like chondros with the lineage and, you know, this kind of animal typically produces this type of look and, you know. So I think it's going to go, you know, that and even further, you know, from what I understand with chondros and, you know, I'm sort of re-educating myself on chondros right now. But, I mean, you're looking at animals like specific animals that, that are, that have specific names and, and those are the animals that, that, that get referred to when they're, when you're looking at animals into other ones. So they go down to the specific where they, like I just said, they picked specific animals and that's what they're using at their cornerstone. Right. Yeah. When, when they're breeding it to other animals. So it goes, even way past locality, I think at that point, you're, you're really looking at that particular animal that they're using. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. You get, you know, what's, I'm trying to think like some of the, like Joe Black, you know, and all these crazy animals and like, you know, any lineage from Rico stuff and, but we kind of do that with Madam Blueberry. Sure. You know, I think, I think that's the road we're heading down with a lot of this stuff. Yeah. Because it's, it's, in order to, to, to pin down that, you know, some of, of the mode of inheritance on, on some of these things. So it's just staying down the names. So. What would you do? That means we're going to all have to start naming our animals. Oh yeah. I've already, I've already done that. I'm, I'm going to hire somebody to do it because I don't. I can't. So. Yeah. Neither do I. He's got his kids. So just like, just, 10 of the kids down there and tell them to start naming shit. No, no, I did that one time and, and, and popcorn and, and, and bubble gum and, and, and, it didn't go the direction I would have liked to do it. It did not go well. All right. Well. Oh man. Too. So. Yeah. I have a, I have a balan animal from the popcorn, a bubble gum pair. Yeah. That's great. See, I do that just to make people say it. Do you have any popcorn animals? Yeah. So. Oh man. I mean, I think we use a lot of, like, you know, like Erica said, we use a lot of the breeder names to refer to our animals. You've got the food. A lot of jungles. Right. You know, you've got the head, a hundred jungles. You, you've got, we use that, um, the way of identifying stuff, but I think it, as, as we go towards some of this newer stuff that's coming in and all these apologetic traits that are popping up, you're going to have to go to specific animals. You're going to have to make the animal and say this is, it's from Oscar. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to have to do something. Yeah. Yeah. So. Man, it's going to be tough. Yeah. But. Yeah. But. I've got like five or six unnamed animals here and I'm like crap. But, but the cool thing about that is that, you know, it kind of, um, takes away from the ball python esque type of atmosphere in the carpets because you want that specific, I mean, when I first got into carpets, that's kind of what the field was. You know, if you wanted a jungle, you went to Huddhenner, Hudd, head, Hunter. Wow. Wow. Wow. And if you wanted, like, you know, a tiger, you want to use Jason, you know, that kind of thing. But, um, for, I don't know, I don't know what you guys feel, but it feels like, I don't know, a little ball python esque with the carpet python morphs. Do you feel that a little bit? Whoa. Well, the options have grown, I mean, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, well, the options have grown. I mean, the amount of people breeding has, like, skyrocketed. I mean, getting, getting back into it, like, in the early thousands, there was, there were a few carpet breeders and then there was, you know, a couple of people meddling around with them, but now we're starting to get a lot more, especially now that you're even talking to international breeders. So there's a lot more people to go to, so there's a lot more choices out there. I think it's different than the, than the ball pythons in the sense that we take a more personal approach to what we do with our individual animals themselves. I don't know of any ball python morphs or whatever that, that have, like, individual animal name names attached to them. And it's like a vanilla this or a Mojave that or it, it, it, it's, it's, it's not as personal of an approach as we take. And even then the, then the greed, free people go even more personal than that, I think. But I think we're, we're, we're right behind them with the way everything. Yeah. I would say that the three of us and the people that we probably associate are, with the most part are, are like that. But what I'm saying is that there's a feeling, I feel that over the, maybe over the past year or two years, it seems like you have certain, certain big breeders that kind of just pump out carpet morphs without any, it's, it's opposite of what you're saying. Like, you know, we're, like, you're specifically taking this specific animal and you're putting it with this specific animal, getting this specific results, like you wouldn't go and put that animal with anything else because it's not going to get you the results that you want. Whereas somebody else is sort of, is breeding that to whatever, you know, like I have a coastal boot, I'm going to put it with that, you know. Right. Other than, other than test breeds, I think you're exactly right. I think, you know, when you, when you, when something unique pops out and you want to try to, you need to, you need to figure out the mode of inheritance on it, you've got to use some, some random animals to, to breed to it, to see, to see what, see if it produces what you're looking for. And then they'll tell you how to reduce it, you know, and more often than not, those, those animals that get produced are probably not, you know, what you're looking for, but you had to do it in order to disprove it. Right. I, I get, I guess I'm thinking of a, maybe a big breeder that breeds carpet python morphs that I'm trying to like, I don't know. Careful. Yeah, very much, but wrong word, no, yeah, no, moving on, but I mean, if you want to quantify it in a sense where you've got, you've got, you've got people with, with what you would consider a smaller collection doing, working on specific product projects in order to, to, um, make specific morphs or pattern variants or whatever you're looking for compared to sort of a, a full scale business, um, where they've already got what they want and they know how to make it and they're just churning out more of them. Right. I think at this junction, I think both, both types of breers have merits. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's a nice politically correct way to put what road you're getting done. Way to say it. Yes. Much better. Yeah, I think both, both types of, of, of breeders are, are necessary to, to do what we do. Yeah. Well, the thing of it is it's like, um, okay, so when you first get the morphs, which we've all had them, I mean, remember the zebra's coming in, they weren't the prettiest when they first showed up, you know, but you have to breed them and you're not, you know, you're not pick it, you know, obviously you don't have the nicest example of it. The breeder that you bought it from does, um, and, you know, over the couple of years, we were able to refine it pretty quickly, I think, you know, I mean, look at the zebras that are being produced today as opposed to, you know, in 2012, um, you know, come, come a long way. So, you know, I think you're exactly right. The big breeder is there to sort of put that out there so that people can get their hands on it, and then the smaller breeder is there to sort of refine it, you know. Yeah. And I think that brings up another, another good point, not to go off on a complete pangent, but, you know, the people that are now out there that, that have access to this refined stuff, um, are lucky because they, they can get what they want right off the bat. Oh, yeah. They, you know, they don't have to wait four years or five years to, to figure out how to make it and make it and then hold it back and then, then breed it back to, in order to produce enough to get out there to put them on the market. So, you know, there, there's a lot of work that goes into, you know, getting these animals out, you know, the way we have them now. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and, and if you look back, say, you know, just take the zebra, for example, since we're talking about that, look back, you know, five, six years ago, like Eric said, what, what came over across the pond weren't the, weren't the nicest of animals, but within a breeding, within a, you know, a generation or two, you, you've already defined them into, to what we consider nice yellow zebra jungles. And there's all came from those drab looking, you know, jungle zebra that came over originally. Right. Which I still have. [Laughing] So, yeah. He throws two looking babies, it's fine, yeah. Yeah. So, that's cool. Yeah, that works. So, I have each, you see, and, and it's, it's one of those things you're talking about, the people who can buy the refined stuff, it's like, that's what I'll wait for the reds. So, a little more year, and then I'll, I'll pull that trigger, it's nice for stuff. [Laughing] Always, always another year. Next year. Shut up, you. [Laughing] I'll get there. Oh. So, they're, they're good looking animals, I love them. And I'm really interested to see how much further you can get going with these things. So. I really think I'm, I'm about a year away. If they don't, if, if the, the reason that, that I did this year don't take, which, you know, I'm, I'm going on to the assumption that they're probably not at this point. If they, if they take next, take next year, I'll know a great deal more this time next year as to what, what I can expect to, you know, produce, and, and what it's going to look like. Yeah. So, we'll see. Awesome. Awesome. Real, real quick. Those, that pair, that pair picture you sent with the two, the pair in it. Yeah. Those are, what, those are siblings. Oh, okay. Really? So, and that's, those are, that's, that's my, it's, it's a weird lighting. So, he's, he's not that gray, he's more, you know, that lifestyle color that I sent you before. And that's his sibling and she's like a, a coffee color with some sort of some reddish undertones along the, the bottom part of her lateral. So that pairing hasn't taken yet, but it should be interesting. She's, she's got a very jungle look to her, but she, she's all coastal. You know what he reminds me of is an I.J. A little bit, yeah. Color fades down the side, you mean? Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Wow. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So, I mean, that, that was from, that's from the original clutch that, that he came from, which I still have the father to, to, to, to the original animals. Well, I don't use him anymore, but I, I do still have him and he's a direct mat of blueberry offspring. Wow. You know, the thing that is often not talked about, um, when you're doing a project like this, like, do you have to, like, I guess you really have to kind of focus on this project because of the amount of offspring that you're holding back, right? I mean, yeah. Because you only have, you have limited space. So. That's why I rely on the kindness of people like you, Eric. When I produce a really nice animal and, and I let it go and I still know where it is and then the person who has it says, Jason, why don't you take this one year and, and breed it and to see what you can produce. That would be really nice. Well, not next year, but the following year. Yeah. I can do that. I don't have a cage for Molly right now. Oh. Oh. I'm just throwing a snake into the trash. But don't. So. Yeah. But you do have to hold a certain number of them back and you can't hold them all back. And, and I hold the original clutch that he was produced and I held a good amount of animals back for a while and then as they developed, I kind of got rid of some of them because they weren't going the way I wanted them to go. But yeah, the couple females that I did wind up holding back and, you know, got, I got the results that I thought I was going to get, which is I was able to produce a good ratio of high red animals, you know, when bred back to, to their sibling. So that's what I expected to happen. Got you. Very cool. Okay. Awesome. Awesome stuff. What else we got Owen? Anything else? Um, so, I mean, we're not really going to be seeing really, really, really bright red granite anytime soon is what you're telling me. Are you asking me? No. Yes. No, she's no, no, wonderfully, but I don't, I don't think she's going to give it to the eggs, Owen. Damn it. Oh, that wasn't talking about her. I was talking about you mixing your reds in with like granite project. I've got to know. Yeah. But I'm just, I'm just happy that my IJ is now with another breeder who cannot make her do anything. So it's not just me. I'm keeping her. I'm keeping her again this coming season where I'm, she's agreed and she's going to do anything. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm totally fine with that. I don't want to see her. I'm not sure. I'm sure they will. Yeah. I'm sure. I bet somebody's doing it. Eric. I mean, there's enough of the animals out there now. They're very good at them. Yeah. No, I'm not putting it to granite. No. Thank God. All right. I got to produce like tigers first before I start messing with. You got to breathe molly to V so I can throw money at you. You would take babies. Again. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully next year. Hopefully. Get that going. Well. Yeah. I'm a little bit of a slow grower. I'm the same way. But you know what? I find that you grow them a little slower. You get a little longer life breeding lifespan out of them too. Yeah. I'm not the first to grow them slow. Yeah. They hang out longer and do more, which is awesome. So, I mean, I still have the O8 Jag I got from you. It might have produced a clutch this year. And he's an O8. So, you know, he keeps going. Yeah. Cool stuff. So, anything else you're excited about this year besides the red stuff that you got coming up? I'm interested in the, there's a couple of clutches I got from the Tiger IJ stock. So, we'll see what happens with them. Nice. Cool. They're small clutches. They were small animals, but we'll see what pops out of that. That's awesome. Awesome stuff. Cool. I'm sorry? Yes, and albino stuff too, cooking around, right? Yeah, I do. I have a clutch of albino dar ones being maternally incubated. She's doing a good job with them. I don't know how many eggs are in there, but yeah. She's got them. We'll see. And then they got, yeah, like I said, I've got a couple more of those red clutches cooking as well. We'll see what happens. It was a, I didn't pair a lot of stuff this year. And, you know, needed a sort of a down year to kind of regroup on a lot of stuff. So, and I'm okay with that. Yeah. It seems like that's sort of the consensus all around whether, you know, you wanted to or not, that's kind of like most people that I talk to, smaller year for them. That's good. That's not a bad thing. It is more depending on the nature. Yep, exactly. I mean, I'm kind of hoping that Jason gets his pyros. Two, three. Oh, I've got some grabbing ones of those. Oh, dude. Oh, yeah. I went into the et cetera this year. I've got a lot of et cetera going this year. I got, I got some pyros. I've got some Hondurans. I've got some hognos. I got some fresh tea. I have a pear. I didn't know that. I got them there from a line in Holland. We imported the grandparents years and years ago from Holland. And it's an interesting sort of a different looking hypo-type Hondurans. They're pretty cool. The breeder's name was Job, J-A-A-P. Okay. So. These are animals you've had for like, you've had these animals for a long time. Oh, my God. Yeah. Whatever. And then now you're just starting to chuck them together again because why not? So. Move variety. Yeah. It's awesome. You know, like I will, when the pyros come out, like I'm going to be calling you. So that's awesome. Yeah. I'd hope to get some really nice sort of Santa Rita Locality pyros, the bobble lines. And some of the hypos that I used to produce back in the day. I hope to go have a couple of pair of those breeding as well. So we'll see what happens. That's cool. That's really cool. How do you like the hognos? I've been sort of on the fence with them. What? Well, they really are. I mean, talk about a snake with a personality. Those things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they're really interesting. I really enjoy them. And this will be my, if all goes well, this will be my, actually my first year ever producing the Westerns. I, you know, I had Easterns back in the day, but the Westerns are really neat looking. Huh. I like the Westerns. Yeah. They're bigger. So. Cool, cool, cool. Man, you got, what about Timors? Are you doing anything with them? They don't seem to want to do anything. Yeah. Damn it. Oh, and I apparently are going to have to talk. He's, he might be in a little bit of trouble. Wait, I just got one. You can't do anything. Well, that's what I'm talking about. Ah. Give me. The dress. She more. That's it. I don't room for shit. Whatever. Yeah. The Timors are, it seems to be a, that's been a tough project so far. But we'll see. Hopefully I'll, I'll eventually produce some. Yeah. Hopefully. And you were posting up all your crests and stuff. That, that's kind of exploded. I think you had like one or two. And then all of a sudden you have like this little group going on right now. Yeah. It's a hot mess. [laughter] All right. Yeah. These, these are my, these are my, this is my daughter's project that I've, I've taken over since she's gotten, she's a busy teenager now. So, um. Right. [laughter] So, they are interesting. Well, yeah, I mean, Eric's played with them for a little bit and I've had one or two, but, you know, I, I, I didn't have the patience for them. So. Yeah, they didn't last long with me. I, I don't know. I don't know what it was. I guess they had legs. I, I just. They, they were cool. Yeah. Yeah, they were cool. But, no, not my thing. But. No. Peach. Everybody has a, no. Okay. Um. Cool. Cool stuff. All right. Uh, anything else you want to hit on before we jump by? I, I, I, I think I'm good. Thanks for having me on as usual. I appreciate it. Sure. Thank you. Always good to have you on and talk about the random stuff that we should be buying from you. So. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So. Okay. Cool. Thanks Jason. Well, I'm glad that he could stop on and chat with us about the red stuff. I mean, we, we've had him on a few times and he's kind of touched on the red a little bit, but that was really nice to get into it, especially because now he's. We're like, I don't think we've had him on in the past, like, year or so. So he's done more work with them. So it's kind of like a continuing. Thing that bring him on and then he talks about where we're at now. Yeah. So this stuff, so it's, it's very cool to have that kind of going. Um. Those, some of those reds, man. I mean, he brings up the shows and it's so damn tempting. So. They're beautiful, man. They're beautiful. They're gorgeous. I mean, that's, it's like, that's why that's honest to God, why I'm like, I need to breed more corn snakes so I can afford to throw all the corn snake monies at reds and stuff like that that I want. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Cool. Team Wars. It's the same, it's the same thing that happens. I don't want, I don't want adult team wars. Dude, that's, that's like white lips. You don't want adult white lips. Someone's giving you adult white lips. You don't want them. Everybody go out and buy yourself a pair of baby white lips and raise them up. Right. That's the way you're going to get them to breed. No one breathes adult animals that have just showed up in your house. Never freaking happens. Yeah. Everybody gets them. Everybody sells them. Got it. And the, and the circle goes round. Stop it. All right. Thank you, Rob. Boy. That's funny. That didn't happen. No. Well, you should have bought reds and not team wars then you would, you know. I didn't shut up. Shut up. See, if you would have a copy book and you wrote this shit down. No, no, no, no. Your goddamn copy book has to do with it. That's funny. We all know that my copy book would be three pages of information and the rest would be just goddamn doodles. All right. So I can see it's a stick guy with a bat and if you flip the pages real quick, then stick guy moves. Exactly. Sorry. Yeah. We're on that way. Oh, that's honestly that the yearbook when you, when you passed out, I was tempted to do that with your book, but I think you're all fascinating. So remember that man on earth. Oh, yeah. It didn't happen. Hey, back to our big. Say, I know. So, well, you have a special thing coming up. So why don't you tell us about that. I do. You do, don't you? I'm going to be a guest on TDPK for radio of this Sunday, the 15th. I have no idea what we're talking about. I'm going to get the idea to probably in a day or two, probably condos to which I have one. It's just on the stick. Sweet. This is what people can expect. It's going to be great. But it could be like, why is this idiot on? So the, yeah, I have, I have one, Condro and it came from buddy. Yeah. I, I've been keeping it now. It's, it's, it's on a stick. Yeah, I don't know the sound. So I don't really check it. Anyway, they're not really mythical creatures. It's a ball python and a stick. And then that's when I think they will. Again, cut and cut me off. So once that happens, I think it'll be a great episode. But I think we're doing a carpet fest recap as well as going into a few stories of the night. I can't really dwell too much into the night because I missed parts of it because I was passed out upstairs. So again, I don't know what they were. Oh, God, you missed that tonight. You keep watching that shit. I didn't miss a perfect guess. I don't understand. He's as good as mine, why? Oh, man. I'm like, is Eric coming through? They're like, no, I'm like, I don't know. I can't do the radio with that, Eric. I don't know what to say. So it's like, all right. This could be probably like the quickest episode of GTB Keeper ever. So we'll see how it goes. Nah, it'll be cool, man. It'll be cool. I'm going to ruin that show. The conjure. We'll never get another conjure guest again on NPR. Nope, nope, nope. No. Will Owen be there? Yes. And I will not come. All right. All right. All right, then. Good times. Well, yeah, we're going to do that. And then that'll be cool. So I'm looking forward to that. And then it's like, after I'm done on GTB Keeper radio. Here's when I'm like, I got a-- Are you going to bullshit? No. That'll never happen. Oh. Well, I know. No. You have a ball python. I do not have a ball python. Exactly. You'll be the perfect guest. Oh, exactly. I'm sorry. Yes. Stop it. No, just stop it. So what's after that? I think it's done with GTB Keeper radio. And then I have to start getting the freaking house ready for Target Fest. Oh, yeah. I was talking about this to you then. Like, I got to paint some stuff like walls. And I have to get everything ready. And then I got to clean the carpet. But the problem is, I'm worried about that, you know, wolf-like creature that I live with. Just like, I would be-- I would shampoo the carpet. And that's the day he's going to bring in, like, a dead possum to show me. And it'd be like, well, all right then. So I'm saving a lot of the house cleaning to when he's-- And him and Jim are going. Right. So once the two of them are out of here, then I'll probably do all the scrubbing and stuff. But yeah, I'm looking forward to it where we're gearing up, getting down in it. So I got to deal with you about a few things that we need. But other than that, man, it came up quick. Like, I'm like, we got a month left. Oh, shit. I got, like, a week. So-- Yeah, it's crunch time now. Yeah, I know. So we're going to get that rolling in the right direction. But it should be very, very cool. Yeah, and I think we're still going to be on for, I believe, the following day, trying to put a herb trip together. We have to watch because in the state of Pennsylvania, if you're just wandering through the woods and happening upon a reptile, it's totally cool to photograph it and, like, handle it, but actively hunting for them. Like, if we're going out to the woods with hooks and stuff, you need to have a fishing life. OK, well, we're just going to be randomly walking through the woods. Walking through the woods, exactly. Yeah. It's not herping. We're hiking. No, we're hiking. Yeah. Me and I would are trying to get in shape for-- Oh, I know. --possible trip. Possible. Oh, Jesus Christ. Yeah, that's something else we're going to do. It's all car professors. You know? Yeah. What are we going to do in Australia? I don't know. Oh. So yeah, so come and join us Saturday, May 21. We'll be in Birdsboro, PA. This is the fifth annual carpet fest. Five years in a row, we've done it. Put it on. Yeah. So look forward to coming and hanging out with everybody. Apparently, I'm like the-- I'm going to be driving everybody around. I have so many people that I'm fucking driving. I don't even know. This is going to have to be timed. Because I have to get up there to help you. But I got people coming on train. I got one coming on a plane. You got planes? You got planes trains in automobiles, dude. Yeah, pretty much. I'm pretty much just like-- I told you, I took the day off for carpet fest set up. So I'm dropping zero off at my mother's Thursday night. And then I am going to be home cleaning cages and getting stuff all in order. All right. So yeah, I'll probably head up Thursday then. They give you a hand. And then Friday I have to go in for work for a little bit. Then I got to go pick people up. Then they got to come up with me. We're going to put them to work going. Don't worry. Goddamn right. Goddamn right. So yeah, if you're thinking about going, I mean, listen to the Southern carpet fest recap we did, listen to what we had going on, what a time it was. So if you're in the area, it's definitely worth coming out and hanging out. Meet new people, hanging out with old friends, it's really cool. So I don't know what more I can say other than then it's a good time. So we hope to see you there. I look forward to seeing the auction come up. If you didn't get a shirt, probably by the time you're listening to this. It's too late to get a shirt, so you don't get one. Pretty much, right? It's one of those things of like the shirts. I think you've got to, I think, probably midnight or is it, I think we've got one more day on it or sit in the last day. Yeah, sorry guys, if you have 45 minutes, go get it now. If you're listening to this on, if you are listening to this on download, sorry you missed it. I'm not going to reopen them. We reopen them every freaking year and like we have to have a certain amount of purchases in order to fulfill a booster. So we'd have to find 20 people that want the shirt. And those people never show up. There's usually only about four or five people who are like, "Hey, I missed it." So we're sorry guys. You guys have had a month to order the shirts. Well, I think we were talking about the next booster we do. We're going to do something for rattlesnake roundups type stuff. So we'll work on a design for that concept and we'll get something going for that. So hopefully, I think we have something, somebody that can put us in touch with people. Is that right? I think so. All right, good to know. Let's see. So next week, who do we have next week? I'm not sure, honestly. Next week is not. The week after that is post-Carpa Fest recap. I'm sure we'll have Torell on to talk about the southwest Carpa Fest that was on. They're doing theirs on the 20th. Dallas out went. We'll talk about the northeast. The week after that, we're going to be talking off the top of my head. I can't remember. But at the end of the month, our good buddy from Australia, Wayne Larks, is coming back. That all the crazy carpet morphs and stuff that he has going on. He has probably one of the most amazing collections of carpet python morphs that I've seen some insane stuff. You know, snows and paradox, exotic car molds and just crazy stuff. So that should be a cool show. I think we got some some etc. stuff lined up. I know Peter Birch is lined up at some point. We just got a nap down a date, which is which is pretty awesome to talk some antiresia. Yeah, and he didn't talk about the caging requirements over in Australia and how kooky those are. Yeah, probably I'm looking for somebody to talk alternative, trying to get some collubrid people. So we got our feelers out. Some cool shows should be coming up in the future for sure. So stay tuned for that. Cool. So I don't know anything else you want to hit on before we wrap it up here. Yeah, nothing because I don't have any shows coming up except for June Hamburg. So there's none of that on there. And yeah, so I got nothing. I'll see everybody at Northeast carpet fest. If you aren't going to be in North Seattle, yeah, that's all I got. Okay. We'll just run down the list real quick and then, you know, we'll call it a day. So please support us arc US arc.org sign up for their mailing list to help them any way you can. Cool. There. Hold on. Oh, sorry. Yeah, us arc.org. Everything that we're doing for carpet fest and southern carpet fest going to go into one big pot and yep. Going to be a nice thing. It's one show that we'll probably be having sometime soon trying to get Phil Goss to come on and chat with us about some of the rebel law. Yeah. So that will be cool. So Mariah Python radio. If you like the podcast, check out Mariah Python radio.com. If you have any questions or comments about the show, future guests, send us an email and info at Mariah Python radio.com. You can check out our Facebook page. Mariah Python radio. Give it a like. We're also on Twitter. Mariah Python. You can subscribe on iTunes or whatever podcast that you happen to use. From time to time, I get some people that say that the show doesn't load up correctly. I think the most consistent one is iTunes. I know not everybody has iTunes apparently blog talk did some housekeeping and they had to go back and fix all the RSS feeds and everything should be up and going. So that should all be fixed. You can subscribe. Yeah. Like I said, what? I'm pretty sure my father just died up there. What? Well, the penguins won. Stop yelling. We're still in the middle of the show. Oh, we got to hurry up. Yeah, very play that radio.com. Woo hoo. There we go. Go penguins. Yep. For me, Jim from Morgantown is having a ball. Should it be a fire stand? I don't know. We're from Pittsburgh originally. All right. I'm going to let it slide. All right. My email is eric@ebmeriah.com. I just put up the pictures of the Ocelot Jag Clutch. So if you want to check them out, go over to my breeding page 2016. Click on the little icon that's a little icon. I'm trying to go as fast as I can. I can't go over there. The little icon will take you to the clock page. You can check out all the babies and tell me what you think. I'm also on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. All E.B. Moralia. It's all you do. Okay. You can go to rogantown.com, check out all the stuff we have going on there. You can also check out rogereps.com. We have new collection of super caramel jags that are hatching right now. I'll be posting a picture of them once they get a little bit as they come out of the eggs. If you're just sitting, we'll get put on the list once they're ready. Let me know. I'll put you on that until then. We won't see one of another show till the June show at Hamburg. So that's all I got. That's all we got. We're going to have to go make sure that Jim isn't dead now. Good night, everybody. And we'll see you all next week for some more Moralia Python radio. Good night. Hey, Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL. Where's the reptile breeder and their owner of Projekt? I've been hurtin' since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breeding and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, while my partner Robin and Markle and I create the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site, bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news. Go to the link so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. 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In this episode we continue our series on the different morphs of carpet pythons. In this segement we will discuss the caramel gene and the red gene of coastal carpet pythons.