Morelia Python Radio

Morelia etc. episode- Colubrid talk with Ryan Rumbley

Episode # 243 In this episode we are joined by Ryan Rumbley and we wll be discussing colubrids. He works with a variety of species and we will be breaking down what he has going on. This is a step outside of the morelia world that we are used to but the passion is going to be the same. www.moreliapyhonradio.com

Duration:: 2h 57m
Broadcast on:: 20 Apr 2016
Audio Format:: other

Hey, Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL or as a reptile breeder in the owner of Projekt. I've been hurtful since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to the advanced in the industry and Educating the community about the importance of reptile. I also love to encourage the joy of breathing and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist Which is why my partner Robin and Markelon and I created the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site Bringing you the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world Visit the reptile report dot-com every day to stay on top of latest reptile news and information We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news photos and links so we can feature Outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you the reptile report offers powerful branding and marketing exposure for your business And the best part is it's free your buyer or breeder You got to check out the reptile report marketplace the market place is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling Defamation full of features to help put you in touch with a perfect deal find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system Search by sex wait more other keywords and use our buy-it-now options to buy that animal right now Go to marketplace dot the reptile report dot-com and register your account for free Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptiles account to earn free tokens With each shipping label you book use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum Add also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page Byron and selling you ship your reptiles dot-com Take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rate ship your reptiles dot-com can also supply you with the materials Needed to safely ship your animal successfully use ship your reptiles dot-com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates The materials need to ship the reptile successfully live customer support in our live on time arrival insurance program We got you covered visit the reptile report dot-com to learn or share about the animals click on the link to the marketplace Find that perfect pattern of breeder then visit ship reptiles dot-com to ship that animal anywhere in the United States We are your one-stop shop for everything reptile related We are your one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival We are your only one-stop shop for all animals. 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We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival insurance program We are your only one-stop shop for all animals in our live on time arrival You and I can bounce stuff off each other because it means you have no idea what the hell I'm talking about Which is awesome right you know right and and we were talking before the show It's like we were at nerd and Matt's like up against the glass of every single retake there And you and I are like rejects are cool and then they pulled out the the cage-dwelling rat snake And you were like this is the greatest animal in this place And it's like that What it's like that that to be that was what knocked ourself off is You know that just screams to you know how stupid we are but um It's just because sometimes you got to get into those weird Off the cuff kind of things and just by looking at some of the colubrid stuff I know you and I were talking about uh You know rat snakes we're talking about beauties um, we were kind of bouncing around the barons And then I went and picked up a pair of pine snakes, uh This weekend at white plains because of the talk of colubrid and also the jazz so You know sometimes you need the weird etc stuff Yeah, I mean, you know, it's I guess it's like uh I think that learning other things sort of gives you um Maybe a better foundation of what you already do know Maybe we'll make you think outside the box and uh, who knows? Maybe you'll enjoy keeping those uh those other animals, but um, I don't know Whenever whenever You know you go through these phases and I definitely have what's called Noah's ark syndrome where I want a pair of everything Um, right and uh, you know with space constraints and all that it's hard to do but um I don't know it's it's one of those things where there's so many cool species uh out there and like I don't know they they seem like they don't get uh As a you the other crazy thing about colubrids is the price You know like no you compare it to like what pythons like what You know like always shit. That's it. All right It's like jesus christ I can have this for like, you know, and that's what the funny thing is is that you know I'm looking at all these morph Recarpified pythons and other types of pythons that I want. It's like A lot of the ones either they're morphed and they demand a price tag or they're just weird and they demand a different price tag So it's like team wars You're looking at about a thousand dollars for a pair You know, I know that i'm gonna get a million emails from people saying I got mine for 750 Congratulations, you found the deal so That that's what it is that you're looking close to a thousand dollars Para colubrids depending on the colubrid morph or the type Hunter bucks. It's like jesus christ But that is that's awesome, you know, and that's and to be honest This is colubrids is where I started king snakes and both snakes and pine snakes and rat snakes And of course when I got kind of kicked off with a python thing you have you were constrained by spaces And your room what it was at that point, but now I got a big room now. I got all new cages I got all new racks I can start kind of getting back to what I originally Was doing it kind of fell in love with when you started your reptile industries and that was, you know, I'm desperate for a pair of lab calcings because those were my first snakes and I will find them. I swear to god That was the one thing you had them forever. We saw them I did I had those those are the ones through those are the snakes. I was breeding in my dorm room for extra credit At a repo class in college Right like I hatched out a clutch at bear. I had those were at college all I had were freaking king snakes And then I got a carpet python for my birthday and and then that started all that crap so Um, I always had king snakes and it's weird when I sit down. I'm like, it's not a single one in this room so You would like to get back to so You know It's kind of cool. I like it and I always suggest colubrids is a good beginner snake Uh for some people Uh, and they kind of work your way into pythons. I know people immediately jump to you know It's a great beginner snake a red tailbone or a reticulated python. I'm like that way. Whoa You know, I agree with one of those, but you you kind of went left there. So it's I I would say good starters porns, kinks, milks, pines, bulls They're gonna be fine. Yeah, yeah, um, you know, I don't know it's uh, it I was hanging out with my dad for a bit today and um I was showing him some of the uh Some of the snakes of the different species and stuff kept a lot of venomous But his thing and at this was kind of the norm back then was that you basically kept species, you know It was never was about breeding or anything like that You know and I remember my dad's like every time you get a new species It was like, you know, the most exciting thing like hey Eric come here and check this out You know and you go down and you'd be like, what the hell is that? You know, that's uh, it's the rhinoceros viper, kitten. What? It's like, you know, you're partially your dad partially, you know your dad was part of that like this is really interesting because It's new and it's not like a new morph. It's a new freaking species That is now being kept and that's what's I mean. He was part of the whole like oh my god The first living crested gecko has been born And it's like what that was that that was the major thing apparently and now there's a way You know if 8000 are born in the month of may, I think it's a low number so And like you see you said you sold numerous times where it was like ball pythons according to him Were supposed to be the heart stuff that never bred Yeah, he uh You know and back then it was you know, I real quick a real quick story I I don't know if I ever told this or not, but What's crazy is I remember going there was a pet shop that was on rising sun avenue It was called pets and things and I really wanted a ball python And did you ever hear that play I it's one of those Because you gotta remember I was near martin's aquarium in uh out there at Philly So yeah Martins like I think they traded animals all the time and we know where they they all went Hamburg at some point. Yeah, same places Didn't even realize that there was a hamburger at that point. But anyway, they uh, they they moved to a bigger spot at one point But at the very beginning they had like this smaller store and um They my dad goes and I really really wanted a ball python I just you know after seeing in in this one little pet shop all around the corner from me Um, I I just thought it was the coolest thing and nobody had it. Nobody worked with it So it was like one of those like oh my god, you know, that's that's so cool And it stays so small, you know at the time I had a Burmese python at home and it was like man This thing was huge and this tiny thing. It's like python in the tiny package Anyway, um They end up going to this to this uh pet shop and they have this big huge crate I mean it had to be like maybe nine by nine it was humongous And it had all these ball pythons in it So i'm thinking back and it like I bet you there was like pastels and fires and yellow bellies And you know because there was like all these crazy looking ones Well, there was this one that was like gold Uh, whereas the other ones were more like brown and these were adults and I'm sure they were wild caught and what not But my dad's telling me no, you got to get this one. I'm like, no dad. I want the gold one and he's like, no No, I'm telling you you want this one Well, it turns out that two ball pythons were rolled up into one ball So I got two snakes or the price of one But I got to open it up and then two snakes are there. I'm like, whoa, what the hell You know, like freak it out because I got two snakes. You're dead like next time you listen to me It's like, you know, next time you know, you just nod it. Goddamn it. Yeah But man, what is different like It's weird like if you would know what you know now back then, you know what I mean? It's just crazy But I don't know the more my research diesecs. Go ahead I mean if you know if you know If you knew now like it back then or whatever you open that crate away from the public and you pick out the pretty ones and You make sure you don't have to wreck up into one. I mean Yeah, nobody knows You know, that's how everything started. I mean and that's what the funny thing is is like There nobody cared about ball pythons or ring pythons for 20 bucks a piece It's like that's yeah, that's what's freaky like if you could just ah I mean people always talk about how if they had held on to their monkey kelp skinks now They'd be able to retire because everybody had that like a colony at one point. Oh, which ran my next thing Like curtain. It's a crazy person um Quick little side note. He got fit on the back of the head by one of his monkey tails And oh my god, he's like look at it. It like wounded me and I'm like, what is wrong with you? Is he's like pointing to like what is this? giant like Stabbing on the back of his head and he was overjoyed that it like gnawed on him So my curtain is a crazy person, but I love him. So That was my that was my wife plays in a plane story. So yeah um I was going to say that um, you know when you start to research um, other parts of the uh reptiles community and other snakes and species and stuff It the only thing that I would say is that it makes me realize how fragmented our community is You know the reptile's body is a hole and um, you know It's just like if I don't know a whole lot about colubrids And there must be people out there that don't know what carpet pythons are, you know what I mean? So it's kind of like yeah, it makes it difficult to fight on uh, you know on a level to where or unite it when I don't know. It just seems so uh Frag I can't think of any other work, but fragmented, you know Uh, I would agree that it seems massively fragmented because you're exactly correct the fact that I don't know all the different types of this or I don't know how this would react or how to keep that or if this is good It makes us fragmented and it also makes it so that a lot of times I don't know if something is wrong like if I go over to somebody's house and they have You know this side of the other thing and let's say monitors and They're keeping it in a 50 gallon tank on like carpet like that like eco carpet over the health If I wasn't opposed to some of the things I was exposed to I wouldn't know that's a problem Or or they're keeping it on like sand. I wouldn't know that's gonna be I wouldn't know that's an issue Or would be something wrong. So you can't really call anybody out on it. You can't really police The hobby because you know, I'll be able to call out somebody on poor care of a carpet python I can't call anybody out on anything else. That's all I got so Yeah, I mean like I said at the beginning of the show You know for me personally, I'm trying to push myself to learn more about different things And yes, you know, hopefully when we come when we do these shows People people dig them and people like them and we can continue to do them Um, I mean, I guess we're gonna do whatever we want to do anyway, but I'm just hoping that you know, I will get things out of it So get things out of it because I really enjoy like researching and learning new things and and really pushing myself out of the comfort zone Um, you know, the reptile report did I don't know if you saw that ryan's on the on the line We're going to get them on here in a minute, but there was just a couple of things I don't want it to hit on before we go Um, I don't know if you saw that video that I shared over on the right python But that Yeah, it has all the winners from the reptile report. Um, we were supposed to do something more away Well, we were supposed to be one of those videos that they put up, but you know, the name got mentioned which is cool Yeah, I finally got the picture with the, uh, with the animal with the trophy. So, uh, that's pretty cool Um, truck that albino's on the road than our other Yeah, if uh, if you haven't checked out the video go over to the facebook page and you can check it out But, um, I don't know and then another cool thing that I heard them mentioned at the end of the video was They're going to be doing a reptile hall of fame Uh, and I'm assuming that it's going to be annually and it's going to be at october's tingly parked N. A. R. P. C. Show so another thing. Oh my god N. A. R. P. C. Show at tingly even cooler. Um, is, uh, this hall of fame thing, so that should be pretty awesome Um I got the man that they make like Bluffs out of like bronze for everybody who's inducted like your head or something like that. That would be Yeah, do that. Yeah Um I wanted to mention, uh, you know, it's crazy. We're talking about re-text but, um, yesterday I stopped at matt minitole's house and uh We probably have a bunch of new listeners matt minitola from silly her Anyway, you got a clutch of re-text? Dude I never realized how many re-text are in a clutch of re-text, you know, like I don't want to be the big clutches You know that I understand that but like i'm a i'm a visual guy like i'm a hands-on guy. That's how I learn Um, like so it's exactly like I explained you how cool all of my things are you don't believe me Do I throw one in your hands? Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's how I am. Yeah, um, anyway He opens the top and this was like a 41 quart of and he opens the top Yeah, and you know, he shows me this he's like these are some females he closes it up Opens and other times like these are some males I'm like, okay, and there's like a lot of harp. I mean a lot of re-texting closes and you go This is another top This is another top of females And closes it. I'm like wait. Hey, man. That's a lot. Hold on. There are multiple other types of girls Yeah, multiple types of girls and multiple types of boys And I've a joke jokingly I said so as I do do you realize in that one clutch You had more babies than I had in the entire season Right here. And that's just the re-text babies. He still has condro babies and blood babies That's gonna be a few years in babies. Yeah. Yeah, well Wow If you're out there and you're in the re-text There's uh, you know, I've seen you tan those hands on so there's definitely some lookers in this clutch for sure He hit on a bunch of world first and uh, you know Just really really cool looking cool looking re-text for sure. So I'm sure So if you sell them them soon You'll be on the lookout for sure. Um, the only last thing I want to hit on before we get riding on is the booster shirt You can hit up the details for that It's no more uh, the booster the booster shirt is launched. It's live and I kind of had this trial run Where a gentleman from australia wanted to purchase the shirt and booster has told me that they are now shipping out of the country For a like 10 bucks extra And I had him go through and he ordered a shirt and it was fine. It will be shipped out to him In australia Uh, once the booster closes, so you won't have to worry about that dumb delay where it has to be shipped to me And I have to ship it to you. It's gonna go direct from booster to Wherever you are So if you are in the uk's and i've shipped shirts there if you're in australia, you can get yourself Uh, north east car professor. This is a fifth anniversary shirt You're going to want this shirt and I swear to god if anybody asked me to reopen the booster I'm going to publicly be like just out lose my mind You have plenty of time go over to this height or to the shirt have a chip to you done end of story so Uh, we have uh, we have a goal of 50 shirts to sell We have already sold 23 and I think we've only been open for a week So we're already on those half way there And we've already raised over 150 dollars for us arc. I would love it if it was more So 20 bucks a shirt go over there Get yourself a really cool shirt. Um Hopefully they will be delivered before carpet fest Uh, the northeast the booster is scheduled to close before carpet fest. So some people will have their shirts probably Others, especially if you're traveling probably won't get it until after carpet fest, but you'll still have it and it's still awesome. So Go over get the shirt 100% of the proceeds will go to us arc The fact that more australia people are buying the shirts than you guys are in the united states is kind of sad So, you know, they don't have to deal with us arc They're in australia. So go buy here Yeah, absolutely get into a good cause and you get a shirt. I mean, it's a freaking no-brainer Yeah All right, let's get this party started out and let's get schooled on some clewbridge. Let's get Ryan on here and uh Get this going so you can kick it off and Bring it in. Ryan. Welcome to morality python radio. You're on the air Sweet. Hey guys have no man And we're surviving But let's let's get scolded up on some colubrids Colubrids exactly because like he's like you heard earlier. I like king snakes and that's pretty much my entire extent of Colubrids and eric is I think he has a pair of opb corn snakes and that's again. That's it So that those are the best corns there are too, man I gotta say the okies are awesome Dude and you know what's funny is like you'll look at corn snakes and like you'll see how like all these morphs They'll be like stuff. It's like three four five genie Well, maybe not five, but you'll have the not yet corns that are all these morphs and their prices always go down But like kick-ass okties always sell And everybody wants those even people that were aren't even really in the corn snakes And that's just beautiful. It just shows how cool they are. It's kind of me then, man You know that I don't know what more important they have You know the uh the cool thing about them about the okies and just I don't even know why I did that again This is just the things that I don't notice until I had them But the frickin bellies man with the checkered belly and the way that looks and oh man. It's just it's like white black It looks like piano keys. I don't know man. It's I get so excited about Stupid okies corns snakes, but I get jazzed up about them, man I'm telling you man and like people just like you know with jungles and coastal and ij's and all that you know that these colupa breeders are You know just breeding the best okies of the breast oak uh best okies And you're getting thicker black borders and more orange and uh red and the saddle cools getting better and better and better It's good at cool. It's really cool to see it So it's actually kind of funny that uh oh and mentioned the king snakes because back, you know a couple of years ago when I was looking at uh Rogue reptiles like I was looking at the collection and I mean i'm looking at all the all the cool coastal and then some of the jungles and you know the other stuff he has and then I see like a lavender albino cow king and then a striped cow king as like oh, all right I miss those too. He uh he had the token king snakes I yeah Yeah, I had the token cali king. I thought I was such a badass with my lavender albino cali king like It was the top morph in the world at 150 bucks a piece. So, you know now But I want those back something awful but Anyway, let's talk about our cali bridge. But why don't you tell us uh what got you first into snakes Well, it it's sort of like a lot of people I would say is like uh, you know, then the dinosaurs when I was you know probably four or five years old Realize that obviously that's not going to happen and then um in third grade I was eight of eight years old and my uh my teacher miss Isaac had a corn snake And I just thought that was the this coolest thing I've ever seen And I just kept bugging her about it. She finally was like, well, hey, you want to help me take care of it? And I was like, well, absolutely So I started helping her out with that and um then I started bugging my mom. I think every day For a snake and she's like no no no no and it took me about a year And then finally, uh, the the year effects was like 1989. I was nine. She let me get a leopard get go And I took care of that and after about two years of owning that she saw how well I was taking care of it She let me get More wizards but still no snakes and I bought a you know a couple green boss list and then I had a pac-man for all finally when I was 11 She decided I could she's like, okay, you can have snakes but nothing over seven foot And which is hilarious about this is because I always hear Eric talk about it My favorite snake ever is Burmese python And that's what I used to have back in the day like I actually went backwards This is what's going to be funny later on as we get into this That went backwards with snake keeping but You know, and I could not understand why you know, I finally get mom to say I can have snake But she's like no berms and i'm like damn it. That's what I really want. You know, let me do it. Yeah, that's a great idea Let's get some bird So my first my first snake I got was a 14 snake And then I got a a yellow rat snake that I caught at our old hunting camp So those were my first two And then she saw us doing good with those. She was like, okay, you know, you can you get more if you want you're taking good care of them So I went to the i'm from Florida originally and I went to their Orlando show back then before was Daytona And I got My first because I never do things in once. You'll see a pattern here has we go on. Okay, so I've got she's a you can have more snakes So I bought three And I bought a boa a Queen's Lynn carpet python with air quotation Uh, and a ball python So those were my uh, my first three You know, python and then boa And then it's eventually In 94 a couple years later. I finally was able to get some Burmese She didn't really know about that at first. I kind of snuck him in And uh, I got I got I got one from bhb She actually lived though. I was 31. She lived 17 years and then I had uh, I got a couple from Eugene Bissette back then so uh, that's pretty much how started I got in uh One thing that happened when my mom's originally from Maryland. So we'd go up there during the summer. Well, my grandma Had an old store and there was this girl that used to come in there and she's like, oh, you're grandson like snakes. Well, I used to date a guy to have Had some snakes you want to go beat him or you know, your grandson go over there hanging out. I think I was 12 or 13 then Of course I want to go Well, this dude ended up being peter call And he ended up living like right around the corner from me You know, so when I'm going to this guy's house I thought it was going to be the typical setup that I've seen you know guy has like a handful of berms and big wooden cages Maybe a few corns or something. I go over there and I go down in his basement. So didn't you know, I didn't know Pete And uh, we walked down there and I'm like, holy shit Like because I'd never seen anything like it Yeah, he had Boas and he had berms and he had retics and condros and he He had all this stuff and there's just tons of them in there and I had never seen an albino boa before in my life because he was just starting to make them and I thought it was a berm out of the kid But he I saw the original albino male and I saw the babies and I was like, oh, this is who's the hossanist dude breed snakes for a living and uh Actually, you know a few years after that we moved to Maryland and I ended up working for Pete on and off through high school and that's where I ended up beating Ted Thompson and All that good stuff Nice Yeah, very nice It's uh, it's cool that you mentioned Ted. I mean he's uh, through me a ton of call your bridge and and some of my first carpapatons at Hamburg. So Definitely very cool. Um Can you tell us what kind of species that you have Worked with I know you mentioned uh carpapatons boa berms Anything else you want to kind of throw out there with what stuff you have worked with or are currently working? Well, what I what I've worked with mainly in the past before I always had like a handful of colubrids But most of it was boa's and pythons, but I've had boa's Bloods, borneos berms, I had retics for a short time. They didn't stay long um Yeah, yeah, we're like hundred spirits, man Yeah It's like all all their stuff. I had uh, I had spotted pythons for a while. Woma's, uh, yeah, yeah god, what else uh Shit man tons of just everything Anything you can think of any carpets. I still have a handful of carpets. Um Now I have I get a handful of jungles. I got one random ij I have a couple tigers Uh Few ball pythons python royals sitting around. I don't breed those anymore. I just kind of have uh some old girl pet and colubrid wise I have corn snakes four to kings eastern kings cow kings I have a pair of spondida which are the you know, the uh desert kings Hondurans Gray band kings and auto california, which is a california mountain. Yeah, I got arizona Uh mountain kings with your pyros uh terra homerra mountain kings which are in a black eye What else? Actually looking around in my room never mind. I have three hundred So i'm like, I'm looking around like what all do I have here? Um, you know, I am I even here and That's awesome, uh Rat snake wise I have I have a few random black rats like i'm a pair of the old licorice or the white-sided black rat then I have the blue bees Taiwan beauties mandarin rat snakes the cocks eye wadda synch this And I uh recently got some climate kafura, which are the uh japanese rats and mine are the kunashira island local And uh, what what else? Oh, and then I have the the pair about vinyl southern pine Uh, I um, I just picked up a pair of northern pines and they're they hate me and I love it So They're pissy little things and I can't get over them. But yeah, I love them. Look at us What led to the focus on colubards What to be honest is uh, you know, I'm really good friends with julie And uh, she she's friends with a guy named bill babcock and She got, uh, a handful of colubards from bill and she asked me she got a lady, you know, I got like 20 25 colubards You have to be interested in and breed them like, oh, yeah, sure, you know, because I've always had like, you know A handful of four two kings and under and stuff because I was more in the general of kings the bigger stuff So I was like, yeah, I mean, I always done pretty well breeding the getchua king The why not and I like the snake so yeah And uh, what ended up happening is is as I became friends with bill You know, he just liked how I was taking care of the animals and he just started sending me more and more snakes And uh before I know it I end up having like 90% colubrid collection So that's kind of how I got turned I'm like because I consider myself a snake guy. I mean I like all snakes Yeah, I'm pretty much correct whatever, but that's how I kind of That's what really kind of pushed me over the to where I basically became a colubrid guy Because it just he just started sending me all these animals and then I was like, okay, cool When I started buying more stuff. I like to fit with a husbandry So, you know before you know what I had like over 200 colubrid from my house It's one of the moments that you pause and you're like, wow, there are 200 of these things in here So oh yeah, and it smells different then a room full of life on smells a lot different That's just giving how often do you have to work because my my my colubrid to crap all the damn time. So I mean, oh constantly I I got a big shot Yeah, dude. I got a big shot back and I just go through there and I'll come in here and I'll start looking around in tubs. I already know which ones are really cool. I always go to Hondurans first Shit machines. So I'll just pull open their tubs and I'll suck it out You know if it's written if it's written they really trash the tub then you know, I'll do the whole whole nine Clean it up and everything, but you just go through and shop back it because Anybody that has like keeps their animals on loose bedding, especially aspen that stuff is just a magnet for the carpet It doesn't matter what you're doing like you'll look down and you'll just have asking All over the place and that just drives me nuts. So I use this shop back I'm gonna say if anybody that's like that you're thinking about having a lot of colubrid You better really love snakes Because you're gonna be doing a lot of cleaning if you have like tons of them because they like to shit their water bowls And surely, you know spot cleaning because they crap so much time metabolism So you really really love snakes if you if you get, you know more than a few Two dozen or something Yeah, that is more than a few but yeah Uh what speaking of what size collection are you working with I assume it's more than a few Yeah, I have 306 snakes And that that's that's not including hatchlings or Babies right that's 300 keepers. Yeah. Yeah, the youngest stuff. I have the cheerlings Uh, she's right now. I think I have 130 eggs and incubator And then there's uh, there's gonna be lots more And we also have my other half She's into leopard geckos because I've done a lot of trades. Jamie Karns when Jamie had a lot of leopard geckos still So we got like 40 of those And then we uh, and then she she like bearded dragons. I was like, I'm not getting bearded dragons No bearded. They're like, oh, I'll take care of my like look can have She's cool with all this which is rare Uh, yeah, right. I was like, okay. I think you can have bearded dragons. I am not take care of those things period And she got them takes all some care of them. Fantastic. And then we have a we also have a random leopard tortoise You know, we have a snake wide So reptile wise reptile wise, yeah, wow That's where Jamie go. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I got a conjure when I am on tree boa, too I forgot those Tree dwellers. It's okay. They don't move that much Oh, man. And she should stay cedar That's awesome. Um So the big question I guess it's good because you just kind of went and said they have all this stuff is Uh, the big question we get a lot of our listeners do keep Mainly pythons and boas and things like that And they want to know if it would be difficult to keep callie birds in the same room as pythons and boas No, not at all. I mean like the uh, especially north american stuff I mean asian rats like we can get into that um But like the north american and the south american like milks and all that like That's not an issue Okay, you know Like with me when I had mostly pythons and boas and I only had a handful of colubrids I would just take them out in the garage and brew made them But now that most of my collection is colubrids, you know, because the jungles and the coastal is up there in the same room with the most of the colubrids um And I you know everything does fine in here But I would just take out the colubrids one the time to brew made them now. I'm sitting here looking. I was like, okay Now I got a handful of carpets and other pythons Am I gonna wheel all these colubrids into my garage? It might be easier to figure out the wood just Wow, but uh, yeah, I mean for the most part man. I mean it's it's fine the uh, the asian rats like my mandarin's my cocksai kind of have a A separate dining room and nook whatever you'd call that It's off to the side of the kitchen and I put my cocksai and a lot of cinctus and the uh And the mandarin's out there Okay, you know my snake room it's fluctuates. Like I'll let it get up to 84 or so during the day And then it'll drop down to 78 at night and I just don't want those snakes getting into the 80s Okay, that's just yeah, I didn't hear the cocksai. I didn't like it. I did hear the cocksai. I like it cooler I mean, yeah, that's that's kind of what I've always heard So I guess he's been cocksai in the same room as python's is asking for trouble Yeah, I mean because like they I mean, I think you could you could maybe do it. It just depends on your setup But my room since I don't have like a lot of my cleubrids aren't on heat In my room state, you know, like I said, it fluctuates the highest I'll let it get is 84 during the peak of the day And then it'll drop down to 78, but I just at those temps At like at the peak of the day, even if I put them like at the bottom of the rack. I just don't want to worry about that Like I just I like my mandarins. I would kill that Like getting that high up. They would die Right So what are you keeping everything in? Uh racks cages both kind of mix between Just about just about everything's in racks. I keep uh the beauty snakes and uh four by two by two cages Well, my my big blue beauties anyway And then uh the carpets If they're smaller carpets Did they're in racks and then i'll move them off to a you know cage You know just four by two by fifteen or whatever the t tens are and uh Got a moat for the most part of everything's in racks besides just a handful of stuff Okay, very cool So, um I guess what size um, you know for like Your biggest collubers. What's the biggest there at 41 courts or? Yeah, no, uh Well, I keep the uh my black milk snakes and the Hondurans and stuff like that. I try to keep them in 41 courts or seedy 70 And then uh, you know unless I have like a like one of my eastern kings is really big. He's really uh old a disto male You know, and he's over five foot. He's in a seedy 70 Um But I keep my biggest blue beauties. I have two really big ones and they're in four by two by two cages Now like like those big beauty snakes I mean you could keep them in a huge cage If if you want it But I you know just because of what I have I keep them in the four by two by two. I have those uh Those boa master cages. It's because I know he's a he probably does hamburg and stuff. I don't remember that Yeah, but the boa master guy So yeah, so I got these wooden cages say boa master on them and they keep colubrids in them so Hmm. That's what those are in Nice That's cool. All right, so let's get into um, let's talk about milk snakes and king snakes Um, okay My personal favorite while there's so many I mean, I like their eyes pyros I'm looking through some of the stuff you have like those, uh, you know, uh, what was it the, uh, hypoflarta king Oh, yeah, man Killer killer stuff. Oh man. Oh, they're awesome. Yeah Well, the uh, I guess go ahead. I'll start with the Hondurans the uh most people's favorites is you know the albino tangerine and uh basically Like we'll say about the Honduran morse Is it's kind of like, uh I don't really know how many people that are with someone know much about corn snakes But like, you know, like the cream sickle corn You know that has emory rat in it now. It's Been bred to corn snake corn, you know so much that they don't look like an emory anymore. They just look like a bigger corn Same thing with ultra milk that has gray rat in it Well Some of these Honduran morse like the anries, you know everything i've read and talked to some people about it You know the original anry have stewardai blood in them Which is you know another milk snake. It's in that Family, but it's not a Honduran right and then but it's been bred, you know consistently to Hondurans, you know that they don't look any different But they still have that smidgen. It's like jag, you know, you keep reading jag in the jungle I mean it's still going to have a little bit of coastal in it no matter what you do So that's the same thing with the albino Hondurans They got a you know the original one. I know people say it wasn't or whatever, but there it was polyzona Which was central. I can't ever say the common is it's central at lannick blah blah milk in uh, right That was where the first almighty was you know bhp in luiporus and I think a german guy had that stuff and then you know, they just bred it into the to the Hondurans and Like my albino tangerine Hondurans. They mean they don't look like anything else. I mean they've been bred to Honduran for god knows how long So that's where you see that and most people I mean they don't care I mean they're awesome red and white snakes So right, but it's just know that like they have like a smidge up They're going to have some polyzona polyzona blood in them because of the path but um like the original hypo Honduran, you know bill love found that in a pet store in miami and it was uh Uh, it was labeled a coral snake You know, I think this is in the Yeah, he was like, oh, that's not a coral snake any, you know, and I think there was another one in there I can't remember exactly but I think there was two and then they're breeding it Because back in the day these come like super tangerine Honduran All that different stuff like steve osborn had them in the loves You know, but that right I thought the original one was uh, was a coral snake the shop owner anyway But uh, okay the the forda kings Like I don't have tons and tons of morphs of these guys like I mean people like uh scott mcfarlane and george fiera And zenith flichen like those guys and ricky asshole ricky They uh, they have tons more for to king morph than I do but Like some of this stuff they're doing forda king You know, I just can't believe it I mean like the hypo that you like eric that one that's like solid yellow looking You know, he's just freaking awesome in and like you'll see hypo's that have You know, just all different kinds of colors in them And it's just it's amazing and they're just aligned what they're doing is they're just line breeding Nice stuff You know, you can get really nice high yellow forda kings nice red ones and then people are breeding them into the You know the hypo stuff and then they're breeding it into the an area or the example stuff And they're just getting cooler and cooler stuff It's just really cool man. Like, you know, like when you see what people are doing with carpet pythons like how Morelia people put so well most put so much thought into their breeding It's cool to see it with basic stuff like colubrid You know, it's like i'm going to take this animal and this animal You know, like my like my hypo that hypo there quite so much like I'm only breeding him to this female Like if she doesn't breed him, that's it I'm not i'm not dealing with anything else. I have I have multiple males I could put with that female And they would love to go with her But if that male doesn't breed her then there's no clutch this year from those And that because that's the I just want more of him And they're like, yeah, I got my role he has the bone what you see the bone white hypo Derek. He really liked those Yeah, oh, and I I can't yeah, some fortiquing morphs really hard to explain like I don't want to explain how the T negative works because I'll just I'll screw that all up You have to talk like scott mcfarlane or somebody about how that works, but uh Other than that I gotta have tons of morph Um more into natural natural stuff, but I do like some morphs but I have you know handful of corn snake morphs and then Calking wise the only morphs I have of those are like some really nice high whites. I got from 10 But I mainly have a low cow Cal King Okay Yeah, like with the you talk about the Hondurans. I prefer just the street Uh, yeah orange and black like I don't like the whole you know That there's like vanishing pattern. I think I remember we were at hamburg and that there was a guy next to us And that was just like drooling over The cantorine milk snakes and just going crazy and you know like all these different milk snakes that he had on the table and You know he's trying to push these force on me. I'm like, oh man. That's just like that one He's like, uh, that's just a normal like that. It's freaking cool but I don't know to be honest with that eric. It's kind of like it it most people that are really really in the carpet python Like they tend to like the same stuff Even it doesn't matter the the genre or whatever. I mean like Carver people they usually talk to me about colubrids they they're like Asian rat snakes or they like contrasty colubrids like black and red talcings Orange and gray blazer blazer space gray bands the Hondurans just the straight red and black It's just the contrast thing and I think it's just the way You know what appeals Right. Sure. That's what people like Yeah It's like a jungle like favorite colubrids straight up tangerine Hondurans Yeah, that's what I like the most that I have It's funny because eric Discovers these animals after I've already had them for three years and then gotten rid of them He goes man tangerines you're awesome. Like I had three of them. Where the hell were you when I had three of them? So it's like yeah, yeah, it's funny when he rediscovers these things. So yeah Well, I mean you get you get uh like because I heard y'all talking a little bit before I came on you know about the the The different facets of the hobby, you know, because like everybody's into their own thing and I think you get so engrossed in What your side of the hobby is doing because it's easy I mean, there's only so much time in the day Like when you're really really I mean all of us like all snakes that mean to one degree or another but we all have that driving force Of what really just turns our you know, we'll just spend our wheels on what we like Yeah that's you know It's easy to not realize what's going on You know, like I mean I have a few ball pythons and I used to breathe those But you know, like I have buddies like swatchy was still you know, he'll mess me every now And then hey, would do you know anybody has this stuff water, but I'm so removed from that world. Thank god that uh I don't know what stuff goes for who has what or what if they don't pay attention to it Right. I just I just totally you know, so I can try to somewhat stay focused because I have a problem with that anyway But I want to try to see folks the one I'm doing and if I have like A million pages that have different stuff that I'll be good. What's this doing? What's this doing? That's what's this so I try to stay locked in on what I'm doing Yeah, that's uh, that's good advice I mean, you know The more and more that I that I go through this the more and more I worry about less and less what people are doing and more what just What I like and what I want to do and I think that it probably would be better if more people just follow that You know that mindset, you know people would be happier and there would be a lot more cool snakes out there for sure um I know this is going to be a basic question, but i'm just going to assume that uh for our Mostly our listeners are python people when they hear milk snake and king snake. Is there a difference? I Mean I mean if you asked me they're the same. I mean they're all lamper pelvis anyway But you know the whole milk snake thing that was that wives tale of you know these snakes attached themselves to the utters of cows and You know drink their milk. I'd love to see some uh, you know gentellists or red milks do that That'd be that'd be a sight to see but uh kind of funny, you know, they're 13 snakes. I mean in my opinion. I'm sure there's some tax ottomists that might happen to randomly They're not but That's real. Yeah, we don't pay that dude Now we don't know those guys Well, yeah, because like, you know what I was in the rob stones rhino rat thing again the other day And when he was talking about the scientific name of that well, that was only like An erity change scientific name of the rhino rat Yeah Constant battle you tell me he just agreed with that. He was uh, not a fan of that Yeah, nope I had a few and they were going to do it just because of the green, you know the red tail green rat. I'll pop off Yeah, it's I mean we go through that with car. I mean look it just moved uh, you know Well, I guess it's just I don't know if it's officially yet or not But it seems that everybody sort of you know jumped on it like uh, you know scrubs removed out of maralia You know, it's only a matter of time. I think before chondras and rough scales removed out of maralia You know, but I mean maralia people I think knew that for for the longest time. Really you can see that you know That's They're their own thing, but I guess because they have prehensile tails and You know, they're semi-aboreal then, you know, they just lump them into one big group Yeah, I can see why they changed that. I mean, uh, the last time I worked for Pete Um, you know, he had a bunch of bullets Which was awful right like I'd never seen a bullet dive on in my life And then I he's showing me the the shop because he had you know because I worked for him on and off in high school So there was, you know, a two-year gap and uh, were Pete moved His business from his basement out to his building behind his house So he was showing me the job and you know, I was going to take care of the boas And uh, we go to the last door on the left And he had all these bolins pythons in there And you know, some some of them were huge And I didn't know they got that big and I was like, holy shit, man. I'm like, is that a bolin python? Is it gap? I was like, dude, these are the cool things I've seen in my life But I could very well, yeah, that's my favorite that I love those dudes but um I can see why they moved those at a Morelli as well Yeah Yeah Yeah, nobody kind of fought it. It was just kind of like, you know, it's only a matter. It kind of fits Yeah The all of a sudden this all makes tons of sense now So when it comes to, um, you know, kings and milks Is their husbandry pretty much all the same? And you know, what is the what are the basic requirements? You know to keep them happy Yeah, I mean for the most part like I keep uh, just about all of them on aspen Uh, okay, you know, my my Hondurans easterns and porta kings You know, they actually have a hot spot And I keep that around, I don't know 87 88 degrees Um, you know, and I'm but I'm feeding these snakes a lot too. I mean you can keep them at room temp Uh, I like to keep them with Uh, I mean not room temple like, you know, someone that keeps the room around 80 82 degrees I mean most cleavers will do fine at that But I just keep my some of my species on with hot spots Uh, but then there's other ones like the gray bands the pyros the zonata the The block eye, you know, they don't have hot spots So what it is in the room is their temperature and you don't want to get zonata real hot anyway because I can kill them So they're all at the bottom. They're in the main snake room, but they're at the bottom of the rack So they don't get too hot. Okay, but yeah, but all the most of these other ones are just standard, um uh, just standard colubrid care, which is You know, just keep them You can keep them at You know 80 80 degrees 82 degrees just straight temps and you know, most of them will do fine Wow jeez, that's uh, that's awesome Yeah, that's pretty cool. Um makes everything better I mean colubrid colubrid they're tough as nails man. I mean you just I mean like what I brew mate my snakes. I mean everybody gets burmated Everybody they're the only ones that don't get burmated in their first year are Hondurans and uh, forda kings I burmate everything that Why don't you Oh, oh Well my Hondurans when I breathe those I don't let them get that cold anyway You know, I'll take them down at like 55 6 and you know, they'll still have their hot spot turned on it's around 80 degrees still And there's I think I think with Hondurans. It's it's my personal opinion And I think a lot of people agree with me is You know, just make sure that you black the light out You know, I'll put usually like a contractor black trash bag or whatever over there rack And so the only light that my pecan is when I check on them, you know Why they're brooming but I don't they don't get burmated real hard like the other stuff those and in my florida kings. I usually don't I usually don't let them go Below 55 54, but every just about everything else in here, you know, it it might get 38 degrees out in a garage And wow, they're gonna deal with I just that's crazy Yeah, I mean at the same time, you know Well, I mean, I'm I'm really big like I you know, I I call it Spartan law You know, I want much to be tough and used to it, you know, because they're gonna happen to them anyway Yeah, I want to raise a gray band without being burmated for like three four years And then just all sudden boom throw it out there and it's like 40 degrees It would not be okay, but but I want to throw them out there. Also, since I have so many colubrids It's nice to have a tough break, too Yeah, I'm only feeding a handful of Hondurans and florida kings or whatever That that's a lot different than feeding all this other stuff Yeah, that's not the main reason why I do it. I'm just saying it's nice So when I mean this again, this may sound like basic questions, but when When you're putting them down and you say you're covering the one You know the one couple species Oh, do you do it any kind of like I messed up on that one. I I black them all out Okay, like the racks will be the racks will be in the garage because they're on wheels And what I normally do is uh, you know, let them empty out Because I I put my stuff down november first And okay, I'll stop feeding them the Usually like between october 7th and october 10th I give them a good, you know three weeks to clean out completely Which anybody has colubrids then take them long to clean out, but you still want to totally make sure Uh, then I take them out there in november first Um, I plug in some of the racks like the Hondurans and the florida kings But I take those black contractor trash bags and I cover all the racks so they go from Whatever the lights are on in the room and the temperatures in the room They go right down to whatever it is out there Like one shot. I know some people will gradually drop it or whatever. I don't I just throw them right out there It might be 80 degree here the next day It might be 55 degrees on the garage Okay, wow, so let me issue this I got two questions off of that. Um, does it matter what's going on with the outside temps? Uh, as I mean you're saying you're going down in november first and again I'm speaking from just my experience with green and python Billy or a lot of people say that they kind of wait to Sort of gauge the outside temps and I would think that With youth with north american species you would use that to your advantage. Have did does that matter or not matter? Uh, I mean from where i'm putting them, you know, it it usually starts to get a little cold around then And it doesn't really start dropping until later So I guess kind of in a way me putting them out there in november Maybe it does give them a slight adjustment before it gets real cold But um, you know as I block out the windows too from the light coming in the garage So I mean it's totally dark in there, but I just There then I mean it Usually it's in the 50s outside by then And my right my garage is pretty Somewhat close to what it is like if it's 50 degrees outside it might be 60 in the garage But right, you know as of three months usually december and uh january it gets real real cold in there Right really oh So Here would be my other question so they don't heat up at all during the day as opposed to like they're just cold and it is whatever it is Right Yeah, now in the wild, okay. I mean it's different. I mean like i've You'll have snakes come out and it'll be 50s or lower And yeah, it will come out and try to get that sun coming in through the tree line or you know Try to find that rock or crawl out and you know, they'll try to warm up Some of right I mean it happens Especially like I would say states like texas and arkansas where we just have crazy weird weather and seasons about fall over the place Um, you know, but generally like at least with my captive snakes I mean where I shut down, but but I will say with the Hondurans When you get down like 35 for them and they're getting kind of cold, you know, they have that hot spot in the cage You know a lot of times it will go late on that Okay, so so you do you do have a hot spot in the cage when it's getting down It's just yambi and septus going down Would for the for the Hondurans I do Okay, I do that I do that with the Hondurans because I don't want them to get like super freaky cold I mean, I maybe they could take it. I don't know. I don't want to chance it because Um, you know, I get down in the 40s 30s. I mean, I I don't I'm not taking I'm pretty sure Then I just don't like them getting that cold again. Yeah, right, okay All right, awesome. Um, let's say, uh, let's say what else what about like, okay, so when, you know Basically you put them down bromation you saying it's about three months you bring them up and and then what happens You're putting the guys together or do you wait? Do you feed them? How does that work? Well, first thing I do is I, you know, when it's time for them to get up You know, I remove all the the covers that we're at and I start wheeling them back in And okay wheeling then usually my room is because I you know still have pythons to breed So I bring them in. I'm not you know, it's first of February. I'm just about to start bumping pipes the ambience in the room back up So Usually when I bring them in it just happens to work out good for me Is I'll bring them in. It's like 75 in here So they get a little time to like okay their body starts getting going again and uh Usually I'll wait I got I don't write it down, but it's usually like a handful of days maybe a week I let them warm up and then I feed them a small meal Like a lot smaller than they normally get like, you know, one of my Hondurans that would get like a small rat or you know Jumbo's huge breeder mouse. I would feed it like a a weaned or a You know pretty with, you know, oh my a tweener something like that, right? And get their get their digestive system cranking again Because soon as soon as there are full balls to the wall Like colubrids everything happens so quick, you know, because I'm pounding them with food, especially the females And I mean I'm feeding them, you know, usually twice a week And I'm just I'm just pounding them because you got a small window and normally the the colubr recipe for breeding Is you know, they have their post formation shed. It doesn't always work like clockwork, but usually They have their post formation shed and that's when you start parents stuff up And most of the time they're ready to go Now some of my snakes You know, they might need two or three sheds before they're ready And because the female will fight the male off. She's not ready. Most times the males are ready to go but you might have a female that Takes her two or three sheds to get ready or sometimes It doesn't happen that often at least in my collection, but I've had some that come out of formation You're like timid. Why you shed yet? Because it'll be like a really long time. They usually go and just shed quick mostly But you know some of these won't shed for a while and I'm like, well, the male's ready and I'll toss them in there So but you know, I'm going to look for sheds but You know, they don't always have to shed you don't always have to do that Because sometimes they may take a really long time and I'll be receptive How usually it's all about Have you ever been into issues putting the king snakes together where they attempted to make a meal out of each other Yeah, it's happened three times this year It was like I have a few of uh, like you and I really get buddies and I got I brought all her gray bands Home with me when I went out there in july and one of her gray bands Like because gray bands are you know, they're not really not because like not all king snakes Are real super aggressive snake eaters from what i've seen Um, it's mainly the getula kings that are you know hardcore snake eaters like florida king speckled kings Uh, you know cow kings are real bad about that Uh-huh, but gray bands usually aren't And well, anyway, I took july's one female. I put it in with this male and then you know, I shut the tub Usually I'm not worried about gray band. I go to walk over to the other part of the room. I hear, you know in the tub and I think what What the hell And I pull open the tub and she grabbed the male by the head And had him wrapped around like I guess to what would be his chest And I was like, oh, that's that's handy And I just pulled him out and you know, it's like, uh, you know, I'm tangling christmas likes And I just kind of shook him a little bit. I mean, I'm sure you pour a wistery on whatever water to get him to let go But like I just kind of shook him a little bit. She let go of him. Yeah And then I pulled her off and then she grabbed me and wrapped her on my hand. I was like, dude Come on Yeah, like what are you doing man, you know, that's another thing. We'll talk about that some more too Eric about king snake uh But so Uh, she's bred since then but you know, she did that once and I had one of my four two kings They grabbed each other and they're both you know over four foot And that was that was a mess. I almost I thought I was gonna have to drown drown the male to let go of her Because they'll go bite The the male will will grasp onto the females when they breed But you know, it's definitely different when they're breeding them Because that makes sense. I mean, it's like they'll go go grasp onto the female And right now breed them, but like the food thing like you you'll know the difference anybody that Oh, yeah, I'm seriously like If anybody goes out and gets a pair of king snakes and they're a python guy and you go to breed them and you see it Like you'll definitely know the difference between them trying to breed them You know, and then trying to kill each other. Yeah, I I mean, I feed them really good And so I I don't really have those issues, but I mean it's it's happened a few times But i've never had a snake eat another one Yeah, you're lucky. Yeah Yeah If I was a pair of cow kings that what were female eat the male and they went to throw up the male and died so Definitely can't happen so Yeah When I was researching the show Um, you know, and I was looking stuff up one of the and it was one of the questions that I had but uh, you kind of hit on it But the one of the pigs that I saw was this male milk snake grabbing the head of the female why they were breeding and I was like Yeah, I wish I could find it, but um, I guess yeah, you're saying that that's the normal thing to do Well, that's good to know because I mean you don't see that with python so You know, I guess I would imagine that when you have somebody that's just doing it for the first time you're getting the questions like roll off all the You know, what's happening? I tell you what the first time Like if anybody in here, uh, I mean, I don't really have any experience yet breeding agent Rats, you know, I brought the contract, but that's gonna be more next year where mandarins and the beauty snakes and stuff So most of my experiences, you know, the the milks and the king But what i'll tell you is people that have never bred cleubards before They go to uh, the first time they go to toss in two pink snakes together or even two corn snakes They're gonna see what happens and they're gonna be like, holy shit We freaking out because they just they just breed so much different. I mean, it's balls to the wall I mean, they're gonna go in there. They're gonna be chasing each other around and then you know, like when the male when she It's kind of hard to explain like you'll you'll see like me freedom. It's a lot different and everything happens really quick too Like they'll breed A lot of times I'm like takes one You know, I usually breed them two or three times just to make sure a lot of times I'll eat my Honduran together for you know two three four days But a lot of times it doesn't take More than one pairing. I mean, I like to do it more but uh Usually then like they'll breed And then you'll you'll see that she's grabbing And then she'll shed and then with in a week to two weeks minor usually a week to 10 days you got eggs I mean, it's super fast Yeah, you breed put like from someone just breeding pythons. You start breeding colubrid. You're gonna be like, what the hell I mean, it it is And it's like clockwork. I mean, I mean going from since I went backwards And bred pythons and boas and other stuff first You know when I started breeding colubrid, so it's like wow this super freaking easy, man Um I mean, it is you're just like wow, this is bam. I got this going. Yeah Yeah, it's great. I mean, she breed you breed your pythons and then You know, she has her pre-op shed and then she ovulates and then she has her post-op shed and then you're waiting, you know 27 30 days, whatever for her to weigh And then sometimes we'll throw you off. I don't know if you guys have ever had this happy with a python, but although damn time No, no, no. I mean like what I I had one it was a couple years ago. She she had a pre-op shed Shopulated then she shed, you know Her post-op shed, but then she went into shed again and I was like what the hell? I've never seen that before and I was she shed four days Before she laid so she said twice before she laid after she ovulated Really because I was a second-guessing myself. I was like, what the hell because like I I asked Dale Huffman about it I asked Ted about it. I think if you've ever had a snake do this Yeah, and uh and Ted was like, no, I've never had that happen and then that year he had one of his tail later on and uh And then Dale told me I think he had one do it before So guess what do you think you know, you got it down. No signs. I'll throw you for a loop Isn't that the truth? Yeah, that is the truth um Okay, so What about I mean, what about the the eggs and all I know I've seen people most of them keep them in their python room Just at room temperature. Is that basically your approach or? Uh, I did that way last year And it did fine Um You know when the temperature is fluctuated in there. I think with clear bridges. I think a lot of snakes in general It doesn't you know a little bit of fluctuation really doesn't make that big of a deal I tend to think a lot of us over overdo it With our incubator and stuff like that which look I understand because I mean nobody wants You don't want to lose your baby pythons and stuff. I mean I get it But since I've started reading colubrid, it's really taught me to loosen up On certain things now granted. I my jungle clutch went in that in that incubator and they were at 87.5 so before before I get two in that but uh Right last year. I did it at room temps didn't have any issues This year. I have another incubator where I have the colubrid's in there and it's uh It stays between 82 and 81 degrees And i'm sorry i'm doing it in an incubator this year with a colubrid You do it just uh in vermiculite or What's your setup? It's hard. Yeah. Yeah, okay Yeah, what I do is I don't you know, I know a lot of people weigh Wave vermiculite and water and do all that other stuff and What I do is I just take a bucket I pour a bunch of vermiculite in it and I just add water and then I stir it up until I get the feel that I like And then I start just making tubs and I do it with python too Because I have people tell you they're like, oh, you're not gonna do that with your pythons like I do I do it with the pythons in the middle of the time, man I mean, I think especially after after you bred snakes for a while and you've made the mix You know what it's gonna feel like Like you can you can just do you can almost do a blindfolded really after you've done it a few times You can just mix it around like okay. That feels yep, that's it And then you're good to go and then I just put them on that um One thing i'm trying this year because i've seen a lot of clover guys do it is Um, I've added some sphagnum off And just dampened it and put it around the eggs or whatever. That's more just seeing trying it But i'm gonna see how that works. I'm mostly just vermiculite and I don't even measure it or anything It's the uh, cool this democracy because of um Just uh humidity inside the itself. Is that the idea or? Yeah, yeah, I think uh I think that's why those guys do it. I mean that that's new to me. I just saw it and I was like, oh, I wonder I wonder how that works. So I tried it I just want to give it a try like I always want to try new things like I feed my snakes a lot of Odd stuff as well Yeah, like i'll go down the oriental market and get frog legs sometimes and be amazed how many snakes will eat frog legs Oh my god, really like Yeah, now the question now the question is after you feed them frog legs, how bad is cleanup because everybody avoids feeding birds and stuff because of What comes out the back end. How is it with frog legs and stuff? Yeah, I probably don't really notice it because like I I feed I feed birds too And um, you know with that shot back. I just opened the tub and I mean sometimes it's real bad, but uh It's not horrible, but it's definitely worse than rodents All right, it uh, yes I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend it as like a staple diet or anything. I just tried it. I was like, I wonder if they eat these And they did I actually had a few of my carpets bite on me too. That was That was weird I was just you know, I was feeding stuff. I thought it out. I was like, I wonder if this jungle eat this frog leg and I I pulled open the tub and I held it there and it smelled it for a minute like what the hell is this? And then it grabbed it and it ate it Wow, well, whatever do you find it? Do you find that? um, there there any healthier for the very very diet or What's your thoughts there? Yeah I don't know like I know that um as much as I feed my animals You know, I feed the adults twice a week at least I slow it down Like after when I'm not going to be breathing them anymore getting the eggs and doing all that because I don't really double clutch Uh most of my snake. Yeah Uh, I mean the hunger ends I'll double clutch some of them if they bounce back some of my females are real big And they just bounce back really well, especially because I get my Honduran eggs Pretty early compared to what a lot of guys do um You know, I'll slow it down, but they I've noticed that my snakes as much as I feed them. They're not fat And that makes sense like they're they have like really nice muscular tone But they're not like super obese Like you see you you see those posts for people have or you'll see somebody walking around with like a This king snake that's just like it looks like a Woma almost and you're like Are you feeding that snake? And that's the thing they're like amen my cow king eats like medium rats. I'm like, what the hell have you done to it? Did it cut to that size? Yeah, well, yeah, that'll do I don't feed like tons of rats I will say that like out of the diet that I feed them. I feed them mice chicks quail You know the random frog leg ASF You know, we have a fair amount of ball python buddies around here and they have ASF So they'll you know, they'll get because usually not a lot of their snakes because they don't want them to get hooked on them And uh, they'll gas off tons of them and I'll be like, oh, yeah, I'll take as many as you want to give me I Dude, I mean I'm telling you like I've had a Mousers that didn't want to eat anything else and then I I offer ASF they'd eat those I mean not every time I had one ij that was just oh my god The snake would only want to eat mice. I could not convert that snake So a lot of them though. I've been able to convert the carpets. They assess if they're a mousers Okay, I might be trying that with uh my albino and uh my cousin's ball python. He's having some issues But uh, I'll get there with the AS they help against all first so Man those are one. Um, they just Yeah, so annoying Yeah, like how the baby is like everybody I've talked to with the darwin's man live hoppers Yep, they just they can like they don't want like rat pinks other stuff even if it's frozen dog whatever. I mean they want a live hopper And like you throw them in there and he's hammer Oh, yeah, even the crosses even the darwin crosses like, you know, uh, bino stuff, you know, a bino morphs and stuff same thing I don't even mess around with Anything just give it hoppers go for all today, you know, eventually they'll switch over but Something about I guess that little jumpy hopper that gets By the You know what eric. I gotta say this real quick too is uh You know when I went to julies last year. That was the first time I ever went to someone's house that had like a almost exclusive marilia collection Yeah, I think she has a granite jag that you produced a while ago I think it was from you But like that if I was you made that that's one of the coolest carbon pythons ever seen She had a jag To the jag had granite that was eric's That became mine that I sent to julie. So she has that so and that was that bounce between the two of us um But julie has some crazy granite stuff and then of course she has the rough East and Yeah, that was something. I was gonna because I was gonna try to stay on the clebrid topic But uh, oh yeah, we have to go that way The rough scales I got to say it's about the rough scales because you know, I got lift down the show and I always hear only talk about rough scales And then julie really talk about rough scales and I would always say i was like, what's the big deal, man? I mean, I didn't think much of them because I'd only seen pictures Well, then I went to her house and she handed one. I was like this was freaking snake from her seat in my life And I mean, I was hooked like I want those so bad They are just absolutely killer and i'm glad to see that they're At least the one she has and I guess the general consensus with them. They're pretty chill They don't care for what i've seen and what i've heard and thank god because this the team that would hurt I do not want to get hit by a rough scale God do that Yeah Anyway, back to call you bridge. Yeah, now we take a break on the rough ease. We go back to call you bridge Where are we Eric? I've always got a track in the Well, I wanted him to talk. Uh, maybe you can talk a little bit about some of the uh king snake and milk snake projects You got going on maybe talk up. Well, you know some Projects that you're really excited about This season and uh, I want to make sure before oh and takes over that we hit on those f2 Polk county florida corns Yes, okay. Cool. Yeah, I have the um You know, it's kind of a tie between florida and eastern kings, but um By eastern kings and everything I have the most excited for those because what I have Is I happen that old wild caught originally wild caught a disto island male from in south carolina I have him and then I have this female that's from orgerberg, south carolina Which is only about 50 miles from a disto So these animals came from ted And What happened is he bred these snakes years ago You know and and most people don't cross localities and ted one gonna cross them because I mean That's just you usually don't do that with eastern king But He put them together Both these snakes are banded you wouldn't think anything of it. Well that clutch he got animals that were that had stripes in them And he's like what the hell Yeah, so what you sent me this year as I got that orange bird female Um, she's one. I just posted the other uh the other day two days ago, you know She just banded regular, you know, south carolina look in eastern king And so the male you know, you would not think that anything would pop out like that Well, then he sent me the two daughters two that have varying degrees of stripe on them Well, I bred the male to both his daughters and that same female again So I have clutches from all three of those and even though i'm not really into like Not totally you're huge in the morphs, but those are cool and they're eastern kings So i'm kind of waiting to see like You know what happens with this? Because I mean he he pops out starts every year like you'll see ted's always he always has striped eastern king But it's just it's weird how That stuff popped out like that So i'm really uh really excited for those Um a few more eastern king mokals. I want to get But the the Hondurans Really looking forward to those So far i got 28 Honduran eggs and incubator Probably produce i don't know over 100 Hondurans this year Always like catching up though albino tangerines and uh the different hypo's and then uh, you know I should have at least one clutch of just tangerine to tangerine So that'll be cool and then there's a bunch of gray bands actually have a I have a pair of gray bands here that are blare stays that they have uh Stripes on their necks The male has a stripe That's i'm not like two or three inches long And I bred him to a female and she has like Her stripes like five inches long on her five or six Well, I have I think 10 What Jason Nelson calls the long botched gray bands where they have different varying degrees of stripes I've posted them on murley etc a lot of people like those Um They're really cool. So what i'm hoping this year Is just about what i've seen from breeding snakes because i bred that that's striped to that stripe And I want to see How big of a stripe i can get on a gray band Because like i think it would be super cool to have like a gray band that has almost complete stripe on it and uh Yeah, you're talking my language now Yeah Kind of the main gray band if it was a great stripe but you know Oh man, whatever cool Yeah, that's what i've been trying to avoid uh like trying to stay out in the clubbers That's why i didn't talk about tiger carpets or anything because that yeah I can talk about those forever But um court well everybody loves that But that's cool anything anything striped Of course Yeah, yeah, if you can get a gray band to be striped why not that'd be awesome Oh man, you know, uh I don't know if you have them, but uh You've got to go off subject real quick, but today was again going around looking at Clubbers and stuff, but the uh tesara corn Holy shit. Yeah, he sent me pictures of those. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I have one pretty cool Yeah, that's like that's one of my favorites. I have a um An anery dilute Uh tesara, which a lot of people just call that blue But I see that like you'll you'll be looking up like they'll call it a blue motley corn or something But that's an anery dilute motley But they have like a bluish gray look to them But I have that in a tesara that i'm growing up. She's one of my favorite snake Then I have an adult tesara That's a friend of mine snake and I was trying to breed it to my salmon snow motley Which is this crazy like pink and purple which look in corn snake But um, you know, he's two years old but like he all the females he bred they're laying a lot of duds And so crap she didn't lay and I didn't want to pair them anymore. I'm just gonna wait till next year. He'll be three See how that goes because I just you know, I knew it wasn't all these females that generally lay good clutches So That kind of sucks because I was hoping to get a tesara. That was you know tesara that were hit for four things. That'd be fun Oh, yeah, so piling on them more sit Yeah, there's actually um, I think it's hard to tell but there's super tesara's I don't think there's been a ton made or that a ton people know about Or you know that they know that it is a super because I think it looks so similar That they've had a hard time knowing if it's a super tesara unless they bred it out Okay, so Like I know that if you if you could get a super tesara male, you know, I mean that would just be It's awesome. Does he just make all tesara that'd be sweet? Oh heck. Yeah Yeah, that kind of Cool. So all right. So so far you're talking about language, uh, great band, uh, you know You got, uh, major aims and stripes All right. I'm I'm digging it. So what about these, uh, the uh, have to uh, pulp county corns. What's the story with those? Yeah, okay. The the the parallel I got Um, I bought him from my buddy, uh, jeff who's a local guy. He originally got those from uh, george sierra And george is a colubrid guy And he's down in Polk county, florida And I think he originally he caught the parents And then he produced these two that I have these are What are these? 2012 And I got these from my buddy jeff And I brought them this year And I'm really really I mean she's part. She's grabbing. She's gonna lay a clutch, but I'm really looking forward to these That's awesome. The female I don't want to say she's like ochotee Looking but she's Kind of ochoteish looking if she's got the base orange and then the darker orange on top Her black borders. They're not like ochotee, but they're real real thin like you can see the black around the saddles So she's really cool. And then I have the male who's like this chili pepper red color Like I was telling you about that eric. It's like I don't know what he is I mean he just right Yeah, I mean my buddy asked me it he had local because local colubards. I mean i'm always up to those He asked me if I wanted I went and I saw him and I was like, yeah, cool man. I'll get him and You know the male definitely looks nothing like the female And his belly is like Fire engine red It's it's weird. I don't know what he is. I don't know what he is because these were just these are from two wild-caught corn snakes But I just brought them together because they're cool and they're het for nothing And um That's how I'm looking forward to uh, looking forward to the hatch and those out. That would be cool Yeah, that's the thing about colubards like you'll see that the people that are really into it you know, they want the holiday stuff Or you know, or if they're a morph person, you know, they're real, you know hardcore in the morphs But the locality people, you know, that's just as hardcore if not more actually And then you have basic, you know, people just want a cow king or something But if if you have a locality colubards, I mean people just I mean they'll basically kick down your door for those things Really? Oh, yeah It should I'd be like I have a I have cow kings from Catalina island And they're naturally a little bit smaller than the your cow king. You know, no, I wouldn't necessarily call them a dwarf But they stay smaller But they have like real thin pinstripe white markings on them And uh, they're just super cool and I have 1.5 of those So I can't wait to breathe those down the road, but I have those And my other cow kings are from there and it's a guanga Which is like Riverside, Cali area kind of around where David Asen's from Um, okay, and those things are just kick ass like cal king wise like the Two of the main cal king you're gonna see the people really want they're always looking for you. You got they call them grease kings But it's a cal king, but they're like super black. It's just crazy looking, you know, erin buyer has those and a few other people have those Killer looking and then the scissor the scissor crossing animals They have that that's actually what both of you guys would want Because they don't all have this but some of them have these really thick white stripes on their back And they're like a dark chocolate brown color when they're adults and they are just absolutely killer Oh, wow that that yeah anybody they're like stripes The the scissor crossing That's where everybody wants man I just shared uh, not the backtrack, but I I went to your page and I was looking at your facebook and I shared some of the pictures of the pairings that you were talking about and Those uh stripey cow or stripey gray bands shoot. Yeah, what the hell yeah Holy shit. Oh And I got to tell you that male That male are like Julie Julie Her one blares cut she put on merley, etc. Last year because they're being those are awesome She bred that male to um another blares female that I have here So what i'm thinking is not only will I get striped animals, but they're going to have that super awesome Intense orange that the male had Yeah You know, I've noticed that a lot of a lot of merrily people really like You know the blares gray band Like I really like that like her feet off. That's like his favorite thing in the world. It's not black and yellow We like colored that's really all we like is just the contrast between colors. So You know, if you if you really dig jungles gray bands have to be your like second favorite snake out there. So Oh, yeah Yeah, I mean the funny is like I was like I have an ij now And she's awesome, but like I never liked ij's until I went to julies out Like I'd never, I mean i thought ij's were cool and all but like I never had any desire to get up And then I went over there and I was like, oh my god Oh, you know, she's wrong Julie's run around with pool boy and all that other ijedness that Yeah, so the granny she has Yeah She has one rack that I think like no person well now they will But do you like one rack for all these granny she held back and like those things are so kick-ass Yes, yeah, like we we've end down the road from her at tindley and it's usually like i'm like peering sideways to see the condros and the Granites and all that fun stuff. So oh, yeah, we we're aware so Well, man. I saw those condros that she hatched out of Yeah, yeah, it was last year the ones that are so red that they're black looking Yeah, oh my god, man. I don't know what those things are gonna look like as adults But I imagine they're gonna be ridiculous. I want them. I don't care what they look at the adults If only if only I had success with ijed that would buy a ton of stuff from her But there's no point for me buying more ijed if I can't get the two that I freaking had Yeah, waste of money. Yeah. Anyway. Um When when eric and I went to nerd, uh, we got to check out some Uh blue and taiwan beauty snakes Can it kind of tell us a little bit about yours and what it's like working with them? Oh, yeah, that Those things are Man, they're just like the coolest snake I have. I think they're They're so intelligent and active and just beautiful because you got you have these snakes that are like so you get three snakes in one Because their tail looks different and then like they'll have saddles on their back and then they have stripe on the tail And then they're just multiple different colors And they just they're just fantastic and The the taiwan's like I have a pair of those You know, they get they get pretty beefy Like I'd say they're the heaviest body out of the beauty snakes and then I have my blue beauties Which my two males are enormous? Like my one male that I call the crack and he's just over 10 foot And then I have another one named hans that I originally got from germany He's like eight and a half foot or something And these these beauty snakes seem to be like they're like rat snake racer crosses I mean, they're not really but they they act like it because like they're fast as lightning And they just they act they're a rat snake, but they act really racer ish And it's uh even something like they're you know, like the riddly eyes. They you know, they call them the you know The cave going rat snake or cave going racer You know, so a lot of them are they have a lot of similarities and they are really really fast Like that to keep my real big one I mean he I opened his cage wants just to try to spot clean it and since those boa masters You know, it opens up the whole front opens up Well, I don't know people know how quick a tent's taken move But he shot out of the cage and was all the way to the other side of my reptile room before he even blank I mean he was just gone But they uh like with mine like my bigger blue beauties that are in in cages like, you know, they uh I have a big hide box in there that has sphagnum moss and I just kind of stick the The nozzle in there and mist inside there Uh, then I I have branches in there Like I don't see mine. Don't ever uh like perch Like a like a carpet or a conjure or anything that they use them And uh, it's just really cool to see him laid out in a cage. It's neat to see like a giant colubrid Yeah, I just I just think that's really awesome And the fact that they're just so colorful And just to just add to the allure of them Like I don't have riddly eye right now, but those and rhino rat snakes are my two Absolutely gonna have this year That way to wait too long to get both of those It's gonna happen. Yeah So, it's like me and England, but yeah One of our favorite beauty snakes too though is because like they're now they're in my python room Um, but they they aren't big fans of it getting too hot either So most of the time I don't run a hotspot on the beauty snakes Me personally because what I've noticed that when I have put a hotspot on them. They don't use it anyway Like my two big blue beatings that are in big cages, you know, like all turn on their hotspot Yeah, I'll turn on the hotspot and they'll move So, you know, like cuz eric always talks about, you know, and You know, I've got stuck talking to Eugene for hours on in myself. So, you know, the student and the serpent thing You know, you just walk your hand like they'll tell you Yeah, he's out of the talk with me too, er Yeah, like I just watch him because like if I turn the hotspot on them, they move Especially if they move from a, you know, within a short amount of time, obviously they don't like that So I'm like, all right. So let's turn it off and You know, so my my room temps in the python room They seem to just be okay with that. I just noticed that like most of the asian rat snakes all the ones I've kept Don't like it really hot So so it's just me. I mean Eugene Bissett gives invaluable information to everybody and just makes fun of me. So Yeah I actually got So we were at Arlington and the NRBC show and I ran into Eugene I was like hey Eugene Bissett. I bought Burmese pythons off you as a kid and he's like, oh, hey, man And he started talking to me and man, he talked me for like an hour and a half my girlfriend was like, who was that dude? Because like I didn't say like I said, hey Eugene, I bought I bought Burmese off you when I was a kid man He talked for like an hour and a half straight And I was in between bugged and shit faced. I was in that way that level So I was kind of rocking back and forth holding the drink and I remember half of what he said Yeah That's awesome But so the temps they like it on the polar side Yeah, how are they with feeding like are they just are they eating machines because they're burning they could just be like ravenous That they're they're eating machines like I mean I feed the crap on beauty snakes And I mean it's insane like how much they can eat and then how fast they'll crap it out I mean it is ridiculous I'll feed like my huge one I don't know how many would eat because I haven't tested it yet because I don't I don't want to do that but I mean he can eat hands full of quail You know if I fed him small rats or mediums. I mean I I wouldn't do Smaller wean to even just eat those like chicken nuggets I mean waste of weed if you have like a huge collection of beauty snakes, I mean you better have a good job to pay to feed them Okay, they they're just eating machines So That grows too fast too. Awesome. Oh, really? Okay, good So because they're all they're one of those animals that like I saw when I was first getting into snakes I'm like they're kind of cool and someone said whoa Beauty snakes get huge and are you know this that and the other thing and it kind of shied away from it and now that I am like getting chased down by like a Long white with pythons constantly. I'm like, I'm pretty sure I can handle a beauty snake So um they're one of those animals. I'm like, I think I might want to revisit this and maybe get into those So, um How's breeding with them? Is it difficult is it a little bit more pay attention to some of the other ones? Uh, you know everything that I've heard and read and talked to guys about with breeding like beauty snakes It seems to be kind of like pythons I mean like so a lot of these guys will put them together and they'll let it drop to like 60s 70ish and then They'll just kind of do their thing. I mean, I don't I haven't bred them yet Because I mean I was talking to Rob's circle about it because I lost my oldest blue beauty female I was going to breed them this year, but she died which sucked um But all I was going to do with mine is I was going to start low in their temps down to In the 60 area and then I was just going to pair them up and see what they did So it doesn't I from what I've seen it doesn't seem like any of the beauty snakes guys, uh, like broom ate them Not that I've seen it seems like they'll just kind of drop their temps Um like pythons It's what it seems like to me anyway, and that's what I that's how I'm going to do it You know, I'll just keep talking to the guys that have been breeding the beauties because you know Sean Childers breeds Blue beauties and then you know the circles and then there's a few other people Which is pretty cool because like you're starting to see a lot more cool stuff kind of come back in It's like it vanished There was like a black hole for like five or ten years where everything just vanished and you're like we're at all this cool You know now it's popping back up. You're like oh sweet And then you're seeing more people breed Stuff that you know, it was never bred before And that's just that's just cool The only thing that sucks is yeah, and then that stuff and you've been into that stuff the more people to get into it They'll snatch your stuff up when you when you want to buy it Cool, man. I'm gonna get that and it's so good Wait, just go buy it. Yeah quick buy everything you want before it goes away so Like like the moosarana man. I mean you don't Moosarana are gone before you I mean if you see them and you want them you better figure out a way to get them because they're gonna be gone It doesn't matter if they're normal pie super pie. I mean they're gone and that yeah, they're you know They're they're actually one that I really dig we can we can we can bypass to that and then come back to the other but What do you tell us what you're working with with them? Tell us a little bit about them for people that might not know about moosarana Yeah, I forgot I didn't even mention those before But uh I have the I have two pies and two super pies and the the pie gene in them is incomplete dominant So which is pretty cool. It's usually pied as we're obsessive from what I've seen but um So it works just like you know like it's super zebra zebra zebra is super pied to a normal you get all pied um So far I think that's only morph in moosarana, but they're from uh, I think most of the ones we have in the states are Costa Rican moosarana Because what I know about them is they you know, they have a pretty huge range. I think they like go into mexico and south america And they're all over the place, but I think most of the ones we have are Costa Rican um, they're rare thing venomous Nice or they know that's not like real bad super bad I mean, I don't think if anybody's had any effects the last longer in like 24 hours And I don't think it's any worse than somebody having like a reaction to a hog nose bite um, I would just say judge if one grabs you get it off obviously get that snake off pretty quick, but they uh They have super crazy feed response, but they're not aggressive if that makes sense. They're moosarana are pretty damn shell snakes And uh, I would just recommend not smelling like any type of food item whatsoever Snake especially like if you have moosarana like I take care of those first And they're actually in the room. They're not in this main snake room Because I I imagine that would be a nightmare I don't know how it works with people that have like tons of moosarana, but I would not want to have big, you know, because they can get six seven foot I wouldn't want big moosaranas in a room where I have tons of milk snakes and king snake I imagine that snake would be batshit crazy food response all the time but uh I mean they uh from what I don't know much about breeding them like mine like the way I keep mine is uh And I do this with some of my Asian rat too, so I'll talk about in a little bit if we have time But uh, but my moosarana is I have them on the fine shredded Harlan aspen and I feel about the front half of that with the That uh that aspen and in the back half I have sphagnum loss in there Just kind of keep it kind of humid because a lot of people give moosarana human hides That's why mine aren't very big right now. I keep them in just drawers Uh, I feel the back half up with sphagnum loss So I'll just pull it open mists that are whatever just try to keep them so they have a human spot and uh They're they're in a rack with back heat that's about like 80/40 or he's 80/45 and then uh There are whatever the temperatures are out in the dining room. It might be and it's probably like mid 70s out there Okay, uh That's another snake that can eat like a tank And I I don't I feed them only about Usually once a week with those be honest. I mean, I'm sure people You know probably cram food in them, but I only feed them like once a week And uh, you know their food responses nuts and for being a rear fang snake they actually constrict do Which is really weird. Yeah Yeah, because usually that's not how they do it if they're rear fang, but these things will constrict as well and it uh They're they're cool, man. Like when they're born like they have like the red ring around their neck And then they'll have like red hues and their skin and all that but as they get older like that red ring disappears They pretty much just become a black snake And uh, they're stupid cool real shiny Scales and they're just they're neat But like, you know, you know, it's don't see them for for sale because they're gone so quick Whoever they're real productive. I think they have they think they triple clutch Whoa, okay, yeah, and I think in their incubation times like 90 90 days for their eggs Okay, wow. Yeah, that's pretty long time. Yeah 90 days, huh Yeah, that's one thing with a beauty of eggs. I would mention with that if anybody breeds them Like their eggs earlier their eggs are hard like chicken eggs They like to tie one of the blues and stuff. Yeah, yeah, it's we're truly weird But the the riddly eyes aren't like that So everything i've heard about riddly. I think that was telling me is that the eggs are more like normal eggs, but the uh The other beauty snakes. They like like really hard chicken eggs Like ropers own me. So it's rhino rat interviews. He's talking about that beauty snakes with a hard egg But with the hard eggs is that like could they bind up easier than normal snakes if the eggs are hard I Don't totally know man. I don't And you know a lot of people don't post when they have a bad stuff happen, but I just I haven't seen many I don't think i've ever seen anybody put talking about it If they bind up like you do something to learn a lot with the beauty snakes, but like you'll see them They'll actually wrap around their clutches like pythons That's weird. All right, like I don't know if they am I am or not, but Yeah, you'll see them like you see people post like a like a blue beauty or something with eggs. They're wrapped around like a python Crap see now they're even more intriguing to me. Yeah Great man. I mean the Taiwan's are usually the calmest And you know the thickest My blue beauties like most of them are bluffers in my opinion like I don't get bit Ever uh beauty snakes. I mean they look like they're gonna bite you Now, I mean it it's all about confidence in my opinion. I mean if you reach in there scared of the snake It doesn't know what you're doing And you know, these are big intelligent, you know, colubrids And I don't know what you're doing. I mean you're probably gonna get tagged if you're, you know, puts you footing around with it But if you just reach in there and pull them out I mean, I don't get bit by them. I don't need to really bite me. It's like the cockside Those little things Really the cockside. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of funny like I have huge beauty snakes and they never bite me But I have these little these little uh, time-out and rat snakes and they'll freakin nail you Always the tiny ones Yeah The Napoleon complex, um, yeah As far as the Easy you As far as the uh Moosarano, what do you feed them? They're snake ears and you feed in them rodents and there's there any issues with uh, yeah, the rodent diet like you see in blackheads Stuff like that No, I mean like I know like I was listening to Jim Hawkenberry talk about him before you know because like he's bred moosarano and everything and Um, I think he tried to feed his hairless rodents Which I try to do that with my mountain kings too. Like the pyros and all that like it when um When they have hairless rodents, I try to buy those up You know, just because these snakes eat wizards, but uh Anyway Forgot it. Hold on. Oh no, I haven't started feeding mine a very diet because they're small You know, I have only see it said I'm like, uh, they eat fuzzies now But as they get bigger, I'm gonna try to feed them other stuff. That's what they do Now I I had one like because he sent me four the one look I get had never been said ever I don't know if it was or not, but it looked like really really super skinny That snake would not eat it first for me And I was a little nervous about trying to assist feed a rearfang snake. I just hadn't done it before and I was like, all right I don't want to sing a latch onto my finger. We have a reaction, but uh what I did is I had a um I had a corn snake That had died so it was a small one and it was kinked up and everything it it died after you know You know like a month after out of the egg and I uh furthe it And I like it would need and I tossed that in there and ate that It was dead, but I mean it So I fought out a corn snake and I said it that now it eats it eats fine Okay, I don't know if that would work every time but you know Because I have a lot of snakes in here that when it hatches, they don't want to eat mice Yeah, I was gonna ask that because isn't that something that happens a lot with like especially gray bands and stuff. That's one of the uh issues. Yeah, this guy's yeah, yeah, there's different there's different tricks a lot of people use like go, um, you know, sensing with different types of lizard Uh, you know once the uh boiling pinkies not live ones um One thing i've done in the past is i'll take a uh like a snake shed Usually the corn snake or something and i'll uh kind of Wrap it around the pinky almost like a sleeping bag kind of thing That works Sometimes or uh, you know, we have all these leopard geckos and i'll send i've sent pinkies with leopard gecko That works sometimes Uh, you know, they really like the defense lizards So if you can have getting sense lizard scent, that's great, but you can't You're gonna try other stuff, but the uh The snake shed things work for me And then the uh, the boiling the pinkies worked well for me. It's like i'll i'll fall them out at room temp first And then i'll boil water And then i'll toss the they're already thought out But i'll throw the the pinkies in boiling water and i'll let them boil for like 30 seconds And they turn like a white color It almost looks like cooking Is what color they turn in for some reason man a lot of them. I know it's just the heat I don't know if it's because they smell like cooked meat. I don't know where it is But like pyros and the black eye in particular They just seem to hammer boiled pinks You know and a lot of baby Hondurans only want to eat live From what i've noticed I've had the brain. I mean like i i try not to sell live eating just live eating snakes I try to get them on other stuff, but You know if the show's coming up, I just tell people hey, this lady can fly Right. I mean, uh, I mean, braining works too. I don't know A lot of people probably won't want to do that. Yeah, i was gonna ask you that. Yeah. Yeah, I do that That's like a good one right away Yeah, really kings cow kings a lot of them like the the braining I I've done that in corns, but I It's kind of happens Yeah, I don't know why man. I think it's just the brain juice smeared all over the Wonderful pinky or the old item and they just I don't know what it is man. They just go nuts I've gotten Hondurans that take frozen like that and Uh, luckily they you know, they don't need that too many times Because I would suck that to do that at the time That would have to suck because then you'd like be be wasting Two pinkies per every Uh one snake one to brain and the smear everything all over. Oh, yeah, so Burn through them pinkies I mean, I've tried to you know, I've had I mean, I haven't produced tons of gray bands or anything But I've I've mine have gotten pretty lucky with being able to get them to eat live pink You know, that works. Okay Um, it's kind of a pain to go get wives because I don't breathe rodent But uh, you know, I've had some that'll take live. I try to do the other stuff first But you know, if they're not eating i'll try live. They don't eat eat that Then I go to the mousetail thing For all it's just feet of mousetails and I'll say that you know, these little king snakes you feed them a mousetail Like most of them especially like been a block eye It's funny because it's like man what you're sitting there surprised that the snake won't eat because like i'll take this in a block I they won't that hasn't been eating And I'll just barely push that on its now and a lot of times it'll grab it on its own And start eating it while i'm holding it and i'm sitting there thinking so you'll do that But you won't eat a live pinkie thrown in with you It'll eat the mousetail while you're holding it and you're like, okay But uh, you survive in the wild Yeah That's funny So And this is a rat snake that i've never actually you mentioned it a little bit earlier, but the japanese rat snakes Uh, can you tell us a little bit about them? Yeah, those are the uh the climacophores the uh japanese rats Japanese rat snake they're you know, they're found on all the the islands of japan But the ones that you see most sought after in the uh in the trade Are usually the kunashiri island ones and they come kunashire island Because as they get older, you know, because they're like this emeraldish green color And then they get all these turquoise scales Throughout their body and then their heads will usually be like a turquoise bluish color And then you can still see their faint stripes in their body As well because like they're born like typical You know rat snakes they're kind of you know rat snakes are all like you know carpets If you think about it most rat snakes are born just ugly And you know, they just that is true as they get older man. They just shed and they just turn into this really super cool snake um And that's kind of with these guys these guys like to be saw him sitting at a table That's the snake you'd want to take an adult Like if you had like a clutch of these japanese rats and you're trying to sell them at a show unless people know what they are You know, they just walk finally adds it, you know, great baby rat snake But you know, then you see what it looks like as an adult I mean, that's where it's like wow and that's one of those snakes. You really need to see in person any pictures of them are cool But I haven't met anybody that's seen one of those in person or held one that wasn't like wow these things are awesome Because they're one of my favorite snakes the first time I saw one in person I was you know because I was always on the fence. It's like, yeah, you know, they're kind of cool Whatever kind of like the rough scale thing, but then I saw them in person was like whoa, this is awesome So then I went and you know got five of them That's the logical thing to do is Yeah It's funny listening to eric when he gets stuff because then like I don't do things in ones around here And it's usually not two cases. It's like hot air or free Yeah, that's what i'm like i thought eric i'm like i got a pair he goes really a box just arrived with 12 animals. I'm like go to hell So Well, you know and like a lot of people when they hear 300 plus snakes Yeah, I mean that that's a lot. I mean, it's not like yeah I think it would be a lot different with that many pythons because you know keeping most of these in rash You know, I can go through them pretty easy but uh The thing is like a big reason why but I do have these kind of numbers is I've never really been big on that one point for 1.3 ratio that a lot of people do I like to have who were free males Yeah, that is that you know what that's smart because i've had boys just not do it and Would it crack but in my entire season Yeah, you might have one that's a crappy breeder Like say, um, you really need to get it. You really need to get the male in with the female and he's in shit or You know something happened to him like say if you have a python and like one male gets an ri for whatever reason Something happens, but and you only have one male And then you're trying to pound this one male through all these girls And like i'm just like man, dude. Just buy another freaking male or buy another boy. Yeah I mean most of my ratios are like You know 3.4 the minimum You know usually two males at least, but I mean I don't even mind having three Because I also like I was saying earlier in the podcast. It's like I like to put that male with that female And then now don't worry about it. And if he doesn't breed her or he did, you know vice versa You know fine, but that it just depends but Just multiple males man like I don't know how the ball python people do it Like one male to like 10 freaking females that I couldn't do that I couldn't do it Yeah, it's definitely uh, I prefer to have uh some some uh Some extras just in case, you know, so usually I have about two to three males per Per project as well It's funny. Oh, and with any other day. We're talking about coastal. So then he's he's saying forever. You said, you know, I have like I screwed myself. I was like I do pulling that can Yeah, I didn't hold back any boys because I had I was so male heavy for so many years I did nothing but keep that girls and now through, you know older boys passing on and You know selling this one and that one. I'm like I have two males and 10 coastal females What the hell have I done to myself? So now I'm like crap. I got a scramble and try to find boys this summer. So What what happened to that snake Sonya that impen female? Uh, he still had that big no, uh She was the one who Uh eric knows this story. She I thought I was giving her the year off I thought she was a gravid and it ended up being an impaction that Uh, she blew out her intestine and then actually Uh had intestines coming out of her side when I opened the drawer So I'm like, oh good. You ate baby and I opened up the drawer and I'm like, what the hell and you know it was one of those moments of Russian air to the vet to have the vet go well I can put her back together, but she's already Like tech that kid's already it's not gonna be much longer. So that was that that killed me Oh that killed me because I had one clutch out of her And I was waiting for eric to breathe his empan so I can get a nice good looking boy for And that that just pissed me off, but Yeah, yeah, I was looking at the next one too because uh, you know, I'm buddies with Michael and Um You know, I like how he does things and you know his coast. Those are just amazing. I had him. Yeah, and I've read her Uh last year and it's funny because every time I hear you guys it's hard to bring that up Okay, I was always wondering what happened to that snake because I saw her And that was the one on out of I mean you got a lot of nice stuff, but like I remember all your animals like I saw that one I was like, oh, that's an impen. No, I looked like I was an impen and Dude, they're so obvious. I had you tell when it's an impen. Oh, yeah I had 1.2 empens over my career Um and each one has just something happened that like just breaks your heart and it just ends up passing So and i'm dying to get more empens, especially because i'm a coastal nut So I need more empens and I need britsman's at some point and I said britsman's right So I want props from everybody in australia again Uh You know, I go not when I listen you guys are always like someone's going to breed a freaking jag to an impen And like I listened to this and I always like oh man Like when both of us like a like a jag they bought for me last year Don't say don't say what the breeding was on that because uh, oh good last year. I took Julie Julie sent me her red jag male thank list. Okay, who was originally from Andrew hair And I bred it too my impen female and uh Like you'll see her lensy noble like she'll post pictures of some of those jags and uh, I produced this last year from the impen to the jag And uh, oh, you know the the normals that came out of that too are fantastic I mean that they're they're really using but they uh like I did that I bred it to jag and well It's kind of funny some ocelot-ish Yeah stuff came that out of that Like so those tags had I mean not not like my curtain craziness, but I mean like there was some in there with some ocelot swirl They're like oh, that's that's weird. Oh, hey, huh. Hey, you know what? It's mentioning this and I totally forgot up until now and I and I think it's because I haven't seen him in a while but Jay McClure was after Sonya for so long like he was like practically begging me to sell her to him and After she died, I had a female That was from Sonya that I just kind of like Well jay, and I kind of made this kid a little deal thing He has her And I keep asking her about breeding about what he's doing with her breeding wise And I didn't haven't seen jay in the past couple white plane shows So I got to send him an email because I would be interested to see what she's done this year Uh with his coastal project. So that would be cool. And thank you for reminding me. So I might not have to rely on eric forget you So Yeah jay has awesome stuff man his that uh, jay's amazing forever coastal stuff. He has Oh god, like that stuff's fantastic I mean impends are still the best like I You know besides tiger I mean I would take a tiger any day over anything Uh jungle, whatever. I don't care. I mean I would take a tiger first, but uh You know impends are right right underneath tigers for me Yeah You know, yeah, there's a there's a they're pretty sweet for sure Um, yeah Before oh and before you move on, um, I was just looking um As I'm scrolling down your page Ryan, right? You know, I'm just looking at all these different things I'm curious. Um, this is going back to king snakes a little bit, but you had a post where you have I guess they're app bob apple gate King snake. Yes. I what what exactly is that as just a line or is that because my god? There's like amazing looking Yeah, you'll see what you see two lines in the in the pyros Like you'll see ones that are either called sanaritas or ball bell or ball bell chris ball bell. Okay, um Where they just they lime bread these animals just like apple gate They lime bread them just reducing the black Like I have a male here that has like zero black like not even on his head. He's just a red and white really looks like a candy cane and those things are just absolutely phenomenal and All that really was was lime breeding same thing with the sanarita pyros and uh They're just They're just they're just fantastic. I probably get messaged People mainly I think I get messaged most about the block eye and black milks But the those apple gate pyros, which i'm not breeding this year um You have to air it everybody wants those which I understand because they're They're probably my favorite of all the uh, arizona mountain stuff Yeah Now then you have one I mean post that uh does have some black and I think I might like the one with the black war I really I guess again, it's that contrast, but god damn that thing is uh Wow, what the is it a Is it one of the apple gates or is it is it like that really cool male that I have that was on a rock It's something you post it up. Um, here's some black charlotte Oh, yeah, yeah, that's uh, that's the breadwinner male. Yeah, he came from a guy uh phil curry And uh, I bred that male to both of the normal pyros I have here so uh, hopefully Hopefully I'll have some of those the one female. I can't believe this snake had six eggs But I got six eggs And the incubator from one female and three from another so I got nine eggs incubating right now from that male And he's absolutely phenomenal. He's he's my favorite pyro. I have. I mean I love this apple gate one, but he's my favorite. He's just ridiculous Yeah I'll give you any kind of carpet you want for that Yeah, man. He's all for you There you go And it's one of those big when you people come over that's that's one of the snakes I hand them And it's then they're always like, holy shit. The snake's awesome in it. I'm like, yeah He's cool. Like if you like read you would you'd love coming over here in this house There's so many red jays. Yeah, Eric has all kind of ijays and tigers. You can get pulled. Yeah Tigers man, none of it. Can't get the tigers head albino. I'm not throwing kicks So Guys, I would start talking about carpets on a little bit too because that uh, yeah, yeah Because the tigers I remember when I first went to uh When I first but like because I went in the military after working at peace And I was in military in 10 years, but I would go back home every now No, my mom's lived in Maryland and when Ted still lived in new freedom I'd go hang out with Ted for the weekend or whatever Yeah, and uh, that's when he first had Like when he first had his tigers like the young ones Yeah, I think he picked he think you picked his up at the Daytona reptile shell I can't remember who he picked him up from Um, because his original one then come from Jason You know, he had like his own thing going Um, then he had that ornate Tiger whatever that he got from in that big female the older one. Yes. Uh, love that. She's awesome. That's next kick ass Uh But I remember I was looking through all his snakes and I I'd never seen a tiger carpet before and I think they were brand new back then anyway And I've pulled up in this tub and I pulled one open. I was like, oh, what what what is this man? And he's they go at the tiger I was like, this is the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life and uh, he's again There's more than one of them and I pulled open another drawer like oh wow And I just uh, I think it's the head pattern the head pattern and the strife and all that it just You just see it and you're like wow, that's that's freaking awesome You can't beat a tiger man. That's just the best Well, there was a crazy We I know you guys will remember the snake. I'm gonna mention but that guy that I think he was in Australia He had that a jungle carpet that looked like a tiger, but a jungle I think his name was like, yeah, chippley serpents or something like that. So yeah Uh, uh, I remember seeing that snake not the tribal jag or whatever that thing was but uh I remember seeing that snake was like, holy shit Others would use that Yeah Yeah It it just that you get blown away by anything. So and tigers everybody loves a good tiger So I'm gonna have tigers hatch soon. That's gonna be cool. So um But Something I just picked up was pine snakes and I know we kind of touched them a little bit, but uh What pine snakes are you working with? Well, the What I ended up grabbing is because like uh, there's another buddy of mine. Oh Will I always miss his last name was like a greaty or something like that. He has this awesome albino Uh, southern pine, which I've always liked the albino southern more than the northern Which is kind of funny because like you either you look at a northern and a northern is usually a lot more contrasty than a southern But for some reason the albino southerners are just amazing But uh, you can't post in the snake and all the pitilofus pages and I'm like, oh my god that thing's awesome and uh I just immediately was like okay. I'm gonna get a pair of albino southern pines. I don't care what I have to do where i'm gonna find them so I found one regular albino southern pine Is it a random repticon? Is it your camera by that? I scored teeny for six months And then uh, I picked up an albino Southern pattern list. I'm not a huge fan of the pattern list but it was a cool snake and I was like, all right, I'm gonna grab that and So I only have a pair of pines and they're young. I wish I had a lot more room, which I think we all do Because I mean I can have like a whole wall Just lined with cages for different pine snakes. I mean I just You know and in both snakes do like all that pitilofus stuff is great to that I know they just because they kind of have like a carpet python build almost You know and they get six seven foots. I'm getting almost eight foot And it just I don't know they do they're stocky You know, they're they're usually Pretty chill. I mean, I know they they start off, you know a little pissy, but uh Yeah, most time they just pick bluffers But I just I love them. I mean, I wish I could have more but I don't I don't have the room. They just get too big They have such cool attitudes where it's like open mouth rear up double S And then it's like you hook the snake and move and they're like damn you has like they're going in the other Been because defeated them. I mean, it's like they're they have such Big stand-up in your face attitudes that I absolutely love in those kind of snakes So and they feel cool. They kind of like have the Ridged kind of scales too kind of like a roughy. So they're definitely one of my favorite call you Brits Um But there's a ton of different kinds out there. I didn't realize up until recently that they're right of different pine snakes out there Oh, it's ridiculous Yeah, you start going into the gopher snake stuff and I mean there's like Seems like an endless amount of different gopher snakes and then they all have tons of morphs and then uh You know, like there's you know, there's different localities of bull snakes You know, because bull snakes have such a huge range And then you know that you have these morphs of them and then It's just It's incredible Because I I can't believe how many there are And it's just they're just big impressive animals. I mean the best one to my opinion still are the hypo still water bull Yes, I mean, uh pine snakes are my favorite of all the pillow to stuff, but I I really like the the hypo still waters Those things are just absolutely phenomenal We did the zoo I worked for we used to have we had a pair of adult southern pines and a pair of hypo still waters and I could get the southern pines to breathe like crazy like it was every year southern pines boom and I would bring them With my pythons to like hamburg in place like that To sell and they would always feel like hotcakes. I don't know why but people in hamburg love southern pines And I could never get the hypo still waters to breathe never don't know why But I could never get them to go and it was so upsetting because I would have loved to see those babies so And I'll tell you right now that those things would sell like wildfire because you know, not just colubrid or pitillosis fans like but I really know anybody that I mean if they even kind of like bull snakes or pine snakes like hypo still waters are like I'm pretty sure just about everybody's favorite And that uh that complex I mean, but I'm in a fine room from somewhere I mean, I want the Dominican red mountain bows too, but I have nowhere to put those I have absolutely nowhere to put this place. I wish I did it If you decide you want Dominican red mountain bows, you can contact the snake breeder I know who will gladly send you like 12 if you ever have Just to get them the hell out of here Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know who I like about you Really? Ever ever enough for the podcast Yeah, that uh Man, I I love those. I just don't I've gotten to the point where I really have like unless it's colubrid and can go and You know a 32 quart of or whatever. I just have nowhere to put it Stuff that need to do it. I just I was gonna say, you know, it really surprised me You know talking about colubrid and just looking around and I know we're talking about pine snakes and you're talking about all the different kinds you know garter snakes as There's some crazy wild looking garter snakes out there that They're really always looking at snakes Man, yeah, there's a guy. I think his name. Well, there's scott kelter And then there's another good things names uh, thomas hamilton and uh those dudes have I mean just insane garter snake collections I mean, I'm I like garter snakes. They're not really my favorite thing But I do like the ones that have the red and the albinos with high red. Yeah, uh, those things are for amazing So that there's yeah I mean I could think of a lot of people That I mean, I don't know how many people will listen to this show besides my friends, but uh You know, I know a lot of the colubrid people that you guys could talk to down the road and like Man, oh, cool. Like they they know so much stuff You know, even like, you know guy like my buddy scott mcfarlane with the florida king I mean that dude was just like a fountain of information I mean he has other stuff, but he mainly specializes in those and You know, and then you know like ted You know, I like I told you eric i'm gonna talk to ted. See if you'd want to do this, but uh We said bread everything Me bread for your advice ons back in like 2003 or something and there's barnax Um, yeah, uh-huh, but I remember those but ted's bread everything me braids those pygmies and You know carpets and all kinds of stuff And like he always is a rainbow boas and stuff every year that hamburger scut Is is he's got instead of having a table at hamburger? He has a cap and each one of those tables is Shockful of animals and none of them are animals. He's gone and grabbed from somebody else. They're all stuffed. It easily just Offed out Over the season. So oh, yeah, he's bred everything and consistently so it's it's crazy How you know I kind of miss Women up on the east coast because like you know, there's so many, you know, look at the size of the carpet community up there And you know my friends like ted matt petsa and some of these other guys that have awesome collections on the east coast You know, I missed that and being able to go to hamburg back in the day because I was like, I would like to go to hamburg now that it's you know huge Because back when I was going to it it was probably just beginning Uh, that's showing like happy grace on that, you know, hamburg was just a you know, pretty small show I think it was like one Smaller room. I don't know where they used to have it the late 90s early 2000s, but uh You know ted I think had like two tables back then but people just constantly Constantly coming because you've got to flavor everything, you know, if you like ball pythons, he's got those and he's got mole kings and Anything I have several carpet pythons from ted Some of my some of my first tiger carpets and my one Female just right up coastal who I adore is from ted. So oh yeah Heads got the great stuff Yeah, that uh That that whole lesser tiger thing Or that because i know it's like it had you know makes more less tigers just poking it Um, yeah, I think that came back from when a lot of people I think these would think tiger was co-dominant Yeah, it did. I think I think that's I think that's where where he's going with that lesser thing because you know He was surprised when he bred that Tiger, so I guess the ornate he got these normal looking Animals near like what the hell and uh, yeah, but uh those things grew up to be awesome snakes though, man I'll say that there and And they grew up to be some of the best breeders because they pop out some of the creeds used to look in babies so Oh, yeah Great animal Oh, well, well eric bacticalie birds again Eric, that's cool good thing we didn't talk about Burmese life arms. I could talk about those for the whole show too Yeah, right It's just uh, yeah, I always love those those snakes but too big for me right now Yeah, I mean it's just The whole reason that happened is because like when I got out of the military and I could like really start acquiring like a big collection again You know, that's right around when You know, they're right about to take berms away from us for the most part And I'm like, oh man, how do I do? Because that's what I was going to do. I was going to get out and then You know have I don't know get like a dozen Burmese to work with and that's what I was going to mess with And then that started happening. I was like, well crap Now what do I do? So yeah, it's not bad. Yeah, yeah, definitely not But you know what I had a couple like I had an albino and I had a hypo and I love those snakes But as they're saying it bigger and bigger You know these big six foot cages were in my room and they're taking up so much room And just I was like man, I can put like 30 snakes where that is And I just was like I had I've moved them I sold them the friends of mine and my albino the real awesome one I didn't want to sell her but you know some local buddies of mine really wanted her and They take good care of her and I was like, all right. I can put 30 king snakes for she's that so That's where that went Yeah, same same here. I do I'm starting to do like I'm going to see how it goes, but uh like talks at schools and stuff And I think that uh You know to have a big snake is like the uh To steal the show tug the thing, you know at the end where everybody's like, oh my god, you know, so I I don't know. Maybe one day I get one just as uh just as that but you know What did you do? I think I'm talking Pennsylvania Yeah, well, you can have a uh I don't think you're really in the boas eric, but uh You know, you could always have like a big albino boa, you know tube and that uh That because like yeah those shows those kids and I mean they really get into like, you know You bring like a bearded dragon or blue tongue skank or uh, um, you know a couple king snakes or something They all think it's cool But it's like for some reason you pull out that big tub and you have a big burm or a big boa in there Like that just especially when it gets an albino or something Uh the kids just give nuts for that stuff Yeah, I understand that's what I was gonna see when I was a kid I mean I still like him, but you know when I was a kid, you know seeing a giant Burmese I was like, wow, that's the coolest snake in the world. I want that, you know, 15 foot-hundred-pity-pound snake So true Just go get those cow rigs that we saw Oh, man I want one of those real bad to be honest. I know Yeah, those things are the coolest Yeah And on the field, they're you're probably in person. Yeah. Yeah, they are All right Okay, so we talked with uh, we talked about pines makes um Probably one of my Well, the last two that we would hit on would be my probably my You know personal two favorites, uh, that uh I really always kind of dug and it would be uh mandarin rat snakes and uh cocksi Really, uh probably the cocksi because it's a stripe You know the black stripe again with the stripe and that orange color And uh mandarin rat snakes man that color is such a crazy. So what tell us about tell us about what you're working with and Maybe uh about them in general No, I say I know you said at the beginning of the show that they're kept cooler. So maybe you could hit on that as well Yeah, the uh The cocksi I have 10 of them and I'm about to uh, get a John buries that all care from him. So then I'll give me a nice dozen nice ground number Um, and it's it's 6.6 too. So I have a mouth free female. Um jeez That's uh, yeah, I mean that they're awesome. They uh, you know, they're they're cooler cooler snakes like that they work They like the crested gecko of snakes. I mean they just It's just it's amazing like how they're not like normal animals like I mean you keep them cool And they just they're metabolism And just like how everything works like what they can digest prey at how they can digest prey You know in the you know mid to low 70s even in the 60s Like I mean i've heard you know i've heard a chad brown talking about Cocksi when they had a lot of those And he said like they would put some down for formation in a female way of clutch Like these animals began in the 50s bruvating and you'd go in there and one of the females just had eggs Right is just yeah Yeah, I mean they're very very prolific like a lot of them triple clutch And they they just they breed like rabbits. They They eat great. They're very even though they're like a you know, a false oral snake, you know, they They're still very very active Like I mean you could put one on display cage As long as you can keep it cool and humid. I mean it's gonna. I mean yeah, it's gonna hide but it's also going to crawl around and I mean they're fantastic animals and uh What I do with mine is I keep the adults and uh, I have those animal plastic racks the ones that hold You know 215's or a 32 quart or a hybrid rack. Uh-huh and uh, right I keep the the adult cocksi in the 32 courts And now what I do if I'm I've tried different things but like the bottom the base layer of the tub is a cocoa fiber I've done cypress mulch. I've done You know, I even tried aspen before Uh, and I used to like when I had cypress mulch or when I had a aspen I gave him a a hide a humid hide with a sphagnum off that I dismissed it But now how I keep them okay at the moment is I keep them I have cocoa fiber on the bottom And then I I layer the entire top of the cage with sphagnum off And then okay, I just have a we have a pretty decent sized water bowl in there, you know, probably I don't know like six inch Water bowl, um And I missed it not even every day just a fair amount. I don't not a big mister You know, you know, even with my con drill, you know, a lot of people will miss and other people don't uh I missed it a little bit, but it seems to they seem to thrive in it how I keep them I keep my light of sync the same way and uh I just make sure they don't You know out there. There's no heat on them. So they're anywhere from 70 degrees to 77 at the highest And uh, I keep I have I only have one pair of mandarins. I have a lot more cockside and mandarins, but uh I have one pair of mandarins You know, absolutely cannot get them in the 80s because they'll die You know, you want to keep them 70s. Like don't go above that Um, you know, I have I don't have to like tons and tons of experience with mandarins But that's everything I've ever read or seen or heard from other people is do not let them get above the 70s So, um How I keep those is there they're both still relatively small And uh, I keep them on cypress mulch And I don't miss that or anything And then they have a hide box in the in the back of the cage And it's just uh, you know piece of top where I got I cut the cut the top out I put spagnamos in there And I'll miss it when it needs it at hide box. That's about it. I actually think that these even though they're cooler Uh temp snakes. I think they're super, uh, huh I mean just just keep them cooler. Really? I mean, that's what I've noticed. I mean keep them cooler and well hydrated and they're totally fine Just don't let them get too hot or they'll they'll die. They'll go down. How fast? Um But it's just amazing how quick these cocks I grow. I mean, you you know, you're keeping your snake Yeah, I mean you're keeping these snakes like wait, you know 10 degrees cooler than what you keep most of your animals and I mean like you feed them and they just grow like weeds and um You know, they just they're really prolific breeders I don't know if everybody hibernates them, but I know a lot of people just Seems that they do the regular uh colubrid hibernation You know three miles in the fifties Dark, you know bring them back up feed them shed breed and uh Pretty pretty sure that's the same thing they do with the mandarans. I don't know yet because I won't the mandarans Mine aren't growing total real fast and I'm not in any rush anyway. I I keep those because I like them but um, right You know when they breed Really looking forward to it, but they uh You know as far as I know they just do it the same way Just you know hibernating for a few months and bring them up and then start paring them there's uh The mandarans like you'll see that like there's you know because they go from Vietnam down into China And like the Vietnam localities, I don't know if it's all a Vietnam because I'd have to read on it more But like some of the Vietnam ones can get up to six foot Which is crazy to see a man like a big huge mandarin Like I haven't said one that big but like i've read about them the ones from the um localities and they're like six foot Or they can't get six foot Because most of the ones we have here are they're china or ones from china And you know you're gonna know flows anywhere from like two to maybe I don't know four foot and two to four foot I mean they're not real big, but you'll see uh like the mandarans I think Personally, I don't know if they're like the top You know, you know non-morph Just naturally occurring snake, but they're like definitely my top five As far as like not venomous Just that's a mandarin rat. No morph. No anything. That's it. I think I think a lot of people like snakes I think a lot of people like at a snake show will will notice the mandarin rat Oh, absolutely and and then they they're they're very variable like you'll see some um That have red in them Like I saw I've seen a picture like you can find it on google. He's put mandarin rat There's like I don't know who the snake belonged to but the snake had so much red that it was like It has the red like instead of just being in the sides or whatever like you seen a lot of them like it It went all the way up around the diamonds And I mean it was like red. That's not yeah, it was like so red that it was like ridiculously cool looking You know, I I prefer mine to be uh Not really have much red. I mean my one female. I mean I like how she's kind of got it coming through um But I like ones that uh have a lot of yellow in them Yeah, and the there's there's actually a few morphs like the I think there's hypo's There uh, there's an albino in china and I think there's a guy in the states I think he's out in california. He has an albino Um, I mean, I'm not really that interested in the albino mandarin morris But it's still cool that you know, they have these because I think I think if they start producing albino mandarin And then they uh, you know breed them into the ones that have a lot of red You can get like, you know said a red have like orange up the sides and all that that part would be pretty cool Yeah, but um Yeah, and I don't know if they would you know most who are calling me exam thick But there's you know, there's exam thick mandarin so they're black and white Um, those are pretty neat looking think uh, matthew most in uh, matthew most scott powley and I don't know Stan grumback breeds mandarans, but like matthew most fantastic guy Sarb-sarpametra is his business name He's got all kinds of really cool round asian rats. He's the guy that I a lot of mine have come from him and matt petza Um He has mandarans that are just insane And what's cool about his is he has asian rats, but he also has the localities on them Which doesn't make him even cooler, you know, you know You know, they're like Australia with the wheat with the wheat belt stimsons and that kind of stuff, right? Um, like how that's neat. It's You know north american locality stuff is cool, but like when you can find like locality milks or locality asian rat snakes That's even cooler Yeah, you know, so but the Yeah, both both those animals are awesome. I'm right there with yerika. I love those I could have a ton of mandarin rat snakes but I have two of them For now, right? Yeah for two. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean the first is, you know, the red lei I got some work done with head. So I'll have those And then the rhino rats I'm not pushing that off anymore. I've pushed it off like three years. I'm finally gonna buy them Do it. It was hard because you know, it was like it was for the longest time. It was like 1,500 a pair for a rhino rat And right I mean i've spent spent spent that on animals, but I was kind of like, uh You know, it's still learning more about asian rat snakes is like God if I buy these and then they die. I'm just gonna want to Oh my gosh, my house. God. You just want to vomit. Yeah What you know, it's like if it's a sensitive animal or I mean, I mean they seem pretty tough I mean the more I learn about rhino rats. They seem like they're pretty tough. Just meet their requirements and they're fun like anything but You know, it's different than like spending big money on a carpet. You know carpets are like tough as nails Yeah, safety are our type of red light from Nick. I mean Like Nick said, I mean you you can't kill a red light unless you like shot it or drop the rock on it Yeah, yeah, so like you've been in like they spent four grand on a pair of hypos or whatever Like I personally would feel better about that because I know okay these things are gonna grow up They're gonna be awesome not gonna kill them but Drop like several thousand on like an asian rat is always kind of made me go. I don't know about all that Same thing with rough skills. They're expensive, but I'm not hesitant to spend big money on those because I know that I'm not going to kill them Right. Yeah, I would like yeah spend the money and keep the snakes for a very long time Yeah, not not not to have something happen words like I just rented these animals. So yeah, that would what I could see that Well, you know before we ever blueprint explosion when I when I started working with bill and julie on this You know, when I didn't have that many snakes You know, there was there was a year where I made some pretty good sales when I had ball pythons and boas And I had some money sitting there And I was gonna buy a pair of bolins I was really close to doing it, but I was like dude. I can't drop six grand on these things And I know I'm probably not going to be able to breed them And I had to I'm scared to keep them because I don't want to kill them And that's right thousand dollars or whatever it was and I was like, I can't do it. So I didn't do it. Yep When I when I noticed with bolognes keepers is that they typically are People that have worked with Numerous species You know and they they've worked through it. They've bred it They've they've they've kind of had success and they're looking for that next challenge And it seems that they like move out their collection and then focus on bones, you know and that's kind of I think uh I don't know. I don't know if you I mean I guess at one point maybe we'll be able to keep a care And maybe people will be breeding them. You know the more they become established in captivity but uh It seems that the guys that are being successful with them are definitely just focused on on that I would imagine that bolognes is going to be like scrubs Where you have the people that are set and they breed them and they have continued success But then every once in a while you have somebody over here and left field that gets a clutch Eventually, I'm not saying it will be Soon, I'm not saying it will be next year, but it eventually after a lot more captive born and bred to produce the you'll eventually get to the point I think where uh Following what these other people have said forward some Person might be able to be at it might be able to have a a year or two of success with their own personal bolognes While you have the other people who are dedicated that'll just turn them out year after year after year. So that's what I think And you know that like those people I have so much respect for them too because I yeah, I don't think you own or or eric Well, I know especially eric and I I could not just keep one species The eric like the other one species. Yeah, it'd be weird I couldn't do it like even even just carpets You know, even with all the different flavors and some species and everything like I couldn't just keep carpets as awesome as they are like I couldn't do it like um like guys like be off that keep like jungles and gamma jags and all that I mean like Just seeing black and yellow snakes and all that like my 80d would go insane like I would have to I would have to buy like a cow king or something to put over here and be like, okay, that's not They focused on that thing and they do really well at it You know, but I would be yeah, I'd be more like how Rendles is and how he he produces all these awesome jet uh jungles But he also has you know, he has like blood pythons on the side and chris likes argentine. Yeah, it's like that You know isn't the variety of spice of life and Yeah, that's kind of how how I feel. I'm kind of the same way. It's kind of like you know I tried all these different things. I I don't even know why I went to a group of doing something like lizard wise You know, I don't know what drove me that way since I have I love snakes, you know, but Yeah I learned just that you know I stick with the snakes research it for a while And if I still feel super excited about it after researching it then you know Uh keep with it and get a pair sometimes it works sometimes I've found that uh, I don't I don't like them, you know, like free ticks were example. I thought I would love them. Oh, yeah You know and the beautiful animal Nope No, I have this one while and like I know both of y'all are gonna like just love this because i've heard You know, like bob clark a few other people say this but like I hate when people compare Burmese pythons to retakes Like they are Nothing alike. Yeah, like they are both big but a berm is lazier than a ball python. I mean they're just oh, yeah It's slug, you know, I mean, they're amazing. And it's really big amount of croat But they're real slow and methodical with their movement and all over the place A big retake is like me hand like if one of my Hondurans was 15 foot and 100 pounds That is the retake. I call retake giant milk snakes He's not that they're like me or anything, but it's like their food response that they mean Yeah, and they just they're constantly moving and when they get real real big I mean they're knocking shit over in the like I couldn't that I had retakes and like, you know They were both not they were nice animals, but like, you know, she would stick her head behind the rack And like you'd have to be trying to pull her out and like it's they're so strong I mean she could knock over a 12 high bow a file rack like it's nothing And I'm like, okay. I gotta get rid of these things And then it just yeah Yeah, I mean they're cool, but you know, I'm I'm happy with what I have now and You know, they crap a lot, but I've gotten it down to the science now The rings keep everything clean and just kind of roll through it And in colubards are such a huge array Of animals and you can keep them pretty much the same way for the most part besides little corks here and there were different stuff But like there's so many different types that works perfect for someone like me Right Right. Like Charles me. I love just try to find a way to squeeze some blood pythons in here, but I there's nowhere There's nowhere I I tried bloods. I'm good. Um so that was I'm done there Eric can do that just like how he's tried different forms of Liarsis and he's good with like Olives so yeah, just how it goes kind of try you play with and then you run Yeah, I would like I like maclots. I would really like a pair of those. You know, I just don't have anywhere to put them I've loved maclots pythons as a kid, but I'm just Again, I'm like sitting here like can I put cages on top of that rack? I mean There's nowhere to put them. I mean because I might end up right now as I'm saying it like I'm looking at my racks like can I fit four footers up there and You know, yeah, just maybe just a pair of maclots pythons um Now but there's nowhere, maybe sappas or something because they could fit in what I have going on in here Right. Have you ever thought of Folotis? Have you ever wanted to keep those? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, those are freaking sweet of it That that's another you know because another animal because they can you watch Dan malaria's videos on you know YouTube he keeps all those you know keel rats and spiloties and all You know, they need more cages like my beauty snakes And uh, right my beauty snakes You know, if I'm gonna have big active colubrids the beauty snakes trump the other stuff So I kind of just decided to keep the big blue Brat snakes instead of the the tigers Got their freaking sweet man. I mean, I love the sploties. Um What's there? They're pretty cool Jason hood. He's got some awesome. Uh, He's got those zoos or whatever too those gray and orange and Crazy like 10 foot, you know, south american colubrids. I mean those things are awesome. I'd love those but I like everything man. I see the warehouse like peace and I can have blackheads and all kinds of I know right Everybody needs a goddamn snake building. So they do just oh man I mean, there's everything, you know, like when charlotte first got her blackhead at python and she's showing me because I like aspody She again got this from berry can she show me pictures like damn it Why don't I have a dad like like I don't watch k-brother videos anymore because you know denver's always on there with all these blackheads And then he's you know, they pull the white girl out or that huge pilbera female Yeah, and I'm just like, okay. I can't I can't watch these videos anymore because i'm seeing all these cool blackheads And then I start looking at what dare cats my great. Nope. Nope. No, no, no where to put no where to put on the way No That's that's the problem with doing this show It's like you talk to all these different people that that work with all these different things and you're like, oh man They make it sound so cool. I want I want some when we Yeah, when we started this show, I had six coastals that was freaking it and That was it now we've done Horrible things. I mean, there's so many different Shits everywhere. So yeah, it's all because of the show Oh, man, you know what as you guys are progressed. I mean you just talked more about what python shows Yeah, I mean you can you you listen to matt metatola talk and you know, you start looking at his page You're gonna end up wanting like a you know half a dozen borneos Yeah I'm like there's not a single thing in here. You'll get me to like oh and hold this Dean egg Oh, oh, well. Oh, oh, yeah, then it's been your screw. Yeah, so Because that happened to me all that happened to me already because you know like two years ago When this started happening and my collection started shifting. I was selling my carpet python You know, I didn't know because I didn't love them, but I started moving out Um my carpets like, you know, one went to beat Ojiani and then one went to evan Um I'm good friends with jamie karn. So I I sent Probably most of my jungles to jamie But then I go to julies And I'm around all this awesome stuff like in lens and jungles and yeah all this other stuff And then I come home, you know with a gfx jungle And you know, she loves them and I'm like, okay. Well, I got one I don't do things in one besides my one random kondro and one random amazon tree boa But I don't need any more than that Right Then then I buy a jungle from charlotte and then oh, well now I did have I actually had two adult jungles nevermind But I did But I had those and then I started adding more and then I borrowed her mail You know, I bred She had a headhunter mail. She let me bring home and I brought it to my food. Oh female Right, I have a clutch of jungles that are hatching. So I went from last year being like, okay I'm gonna focus on not carpet pythons anymore Well, and I go to her house and I'm around all the carpets and then I come home with more after just selling some Huh, you know, damn it. Yeah, you can't get out man carpets. You can't get it. They're bulletproof snake I you know, I think that's one thing about morality. It decides like the head structure is just Carbon pythons are just they're so tough You know a lot of them will perch You know, they're just super cool snakes and I mean I You know, I can't see why people don't like them. I mean a lot of people come over and they they think they're mean But you know, they're not. I mean I have one I'll buy no jags and half hole That's the meat I think I have a bunch of something something about Darwin jags. I don't know why I have a freaking dick. Yeah Yeah, I have a jag hat from julie and that thing is just evil and then uh, I have a caramel jag hat from eric and that thing people so it's like Darwin and jag. I guess they were never supposed to mix So yeah, oh, he's not he's not going to get bread to shit You're going to make more mad Oh I think the only thing that I could do to make snakes meaner is if I bred him to like a zebra or something I think that the only thing that could make those animals meaner There you go Well, we were probably going to cut off at any point So, oh, why don't you hit on those last questions and put your information out there so they make sure if anybody Wants to get in touch with you. Well, do that for you know, how to how to get Yeah Okay, I don't have a you know website or anything, but uh, you know, ryan rumbly on facebook Uh, that's the best way to find making friend me or send me a message whatever and uh That's pretty much it. I mean I had as a bright now And that's that's where i'm at And on your facebook page is where you post all your, you know, your pairings and everything that you got going on there That's where they can find yeah there and then just like the You know the different colubrid pages and all that that's where uh, that's where stuff is posted Just different pictures paired all that Touch it cool. All right, so If you could keep any species that limitations of law or anything like that, what would it be and why? I wish If they weren't Okay, the snake that I would want to keep but it would not be venomous Would be I would like to keep cobras if they were venom or not venomous like I wish cobras were like regular colored venomous Yeah, any like you've covered more venomous. That's what I'd have All right, any particular cobra or just cobras Uh, I guess I had to pick one. I really like those uh Those black ones from Iran that tom crutchfield have those are main chin vipers those if they weren't venomous Because I if they were I would get killed first day having a venomous snake. So I don't have any it's so pretty Okay. Oh, I forget. I'd be right one through tubs and like that's on a milk snake whack Oh shit. Yeah All right, um if you go field surfing anywhere in the world, where would you go and what would you feel being defined? Uh pretty much anywhere in uh Dendonesia, you know like Malaysia, Thailand Yeah, any of those places and I'd just be going for beauty snakes and the different colubrids and You know that was a tough choice between there in australia. I'd love to go to australia. Yeah Cool Well, all right. Those are that's all the questions we got for you, but um Thanks for coming on and schooling us with colubrids and I assume Eric is going to get a box from you filled with colubrids at some point soon So Yeah, he calls me in a week and goes guess what i'm getting. Oh my god So, you know, I imagine that's going to happen to well, yeah, and I told him I'd be at uh, tenley with julie so Oh, yeah, that's trouble. Man We're gonna come home with more snakes and october than we like went there with it Yeah, you'll get a call get a get a facebook facebook message later be like you and all your damn colubrids take these things back Yeah Yeah So Well, thank you again for coming on. We're gonna have to have you back Um when eric just starts getting confused with his colubrids of what to do So, you know, we'll have you back on your teacher On air trying to stay better on topic next time No, I know where he's off topic. Yeah, any moment to talk about rub scales on good on game. So, oh man. Yeah Oh Well, well cool All right, thanks. I'm a gut. Oh on guys. I'll talk to you later All right, absolutely All right. Oh, and uh, we're probably gonna cut off uh any second Um, let's do as much as I can Um go to this real quick carpet. It's April 30th Yeah, go to the first one. It's made the 20th do that one Go to the northeast one and i made 21st to 3 p.m. To when Owen kicks everyone out of his house Um, please support us. I aren't you can do that by buying a t-shirt at the booster. You should do that Merley Python radio. It's a podcast. I hear it's pretty freaking good You can follow it on twitter. You can also go to Merley's Python radio.com and if you have any emails or complaints don't because of us We don't want to hear about it, but if you have to you can go to info at merley by the radio.com Uh eric he does things he has a website. It's uh, ebmerlea.com Uh, you can reach him by saying eric at ebmerlea.com send him many many many emails. He loves those He also has a twitter and instagram, but i don't follow him on either one of those Um Rogue reptile is a good place. We got lots of stuff something right now. They're all in eggs So you're gonna have to check back later and you'll see what we have later as far as shows I might not be at the hamburger April 30th show. I might be somewhere else. Um That's all we got Did you want to add anything I'm pretty sure I got everything So he's gone what else today is thank you all for listening and we're gonna catch everybody next week for some more merley advice on radio good night Okay [BLANK_AUDIO]