Morelia Python Radio

Carpet and some etc. talk with Scott Borden

In this episode we are joined by Scott Borden to talk about carpets, scrubs and some other ETC. Scott keeps a wide variety of reptiles and we are going to hit on his current and future projects along with his thoughts on where the carpet community.

Duration:: 2h 56m
Broadcast on:: 06 Apr 2016
Audio Format:: other

Hey, Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL or as a reptile breeder in the owner of Projekt. I've been hurtful since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to the advanced in the industry and Educating the community about the importance of reptile. I also love to encourage the joy of breathing and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist Which is why my partner Robin and Markelon and I created the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site Bringing you the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world Then at the reptile report dot-com every day to stay on top of latest reptile news and information We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news photos and links so we can feature Outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you the reptile report offers powerful branding and marketing exposure for your business And the best part is it's free your buyer or breeder You got to check out the reptile report marketplace. The marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling Explanation full of features to help put you in touch with a perfect deal find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system Search by sex wait more or other keywords and use our buyer now options to buy that animal right now Go to marketplace dot the reptile report dot-com and register your account for free Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptiles account to earn free tokens With each shipping label you book use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum Act also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page Byron is selling you ship your reptiles Dot-com take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rate ship your reptiles dot-com can also supply you with the materials Needed to safely ship your animal successfully use ship your reptiles dot-com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates The materials need to ship the reptile successfully live customer support in our live on time arrival insurance program We got you covered visit the reptile report dot-com to learn or share about the animals Click on the link to the marketplace find that perfect pattern of breeder then visit ship reptiles dot-com the ship at animal anywhere in the United States We are your one-stop shop for everything reptile related [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Good evening everybody welcome to another episode of Moralia Python radio this is episode 241 Son of a bitch a lot of episodes one with it 250 wow yeah that will be another milestone Okay so tonight in tonight's episode we're going to be talking with our good friend Scott Borden Scott is probably best known for his jungle carpets right a fighter at heart you know I mean he is not a morphe guy definitely not a morphe guy I don't think he has any more stood off right it's which makes it really hard to tempt him to give me things because I'm like Scott I would like your savoose and he goes we'll work something out and I go I will give you this super commonly because I'm not into coastals or morphe and I'm like wait I don't know how to speak to you so it's like yeah it's yeah and unfortunately I got him booked on a bunch of animals and he went out and bought them all which now I've lost that edge too so once Scott starts producing things I will just have to give him money and that employs me So we don't like parting with money we just like part of yeah jerk it's yeah he but he's got some key stuff too No yeah definitely I mean he has some really nice jungles from some really nice lines and specific you know pairings and such so we'll get in all that but like you said that's not all that Scott has he also is well he's the head guy of the Lyasis group with yeah I'm sure I'm sure during the show you will be a full on tilt with you know the mac lots and the savoose and all that stuff and the savoose and the olives and I actually had a long and lengthy discussion today with KJ about Lyasis because do you remember that Dun's playathon that I mentioned last show he got it he bought it And guess what he did what remember how I didn't want to get him out because it was a boy it's a girl I'm like I'm like don't react though and don't flip out don't throw things off your desk it's okay Oh man like I'm happy that the animal is now in somebody who is going to take care of it properly and could successfully get a breeding project going with it down the line especially because when he produces babies I will appear out of the woodworks you'd be like remember you wouldn't even have her if I didn't say shit so you're going to give me babies and then I will pay full price for babies because that's what's going to end up happening right for you know mac lots of items with longer snouts so yeah it's cool I've been promised pictures so I will check on that later but yeah I'm going to be in full Lyasis tilt with Scott I always am every time I see him evaluate the root python's all the damn time so yeah I think I think you have one point I had made a deal with it and some kind of junk stupor that I would make a trade for some sevus or some northern jungle let's say there you go he's got a kind of you know you gotta you gotta play to what you like if I had some baby white lips I bet you I could get some stuff but you know goddamn things are hard to breathe so it's just kind of one of those things well yeah that's the other thing that he also works with white lip pythons and one of my favorites Malookan scrubs which is pretty good and I noticed that late he sort of has the Calubrid bug so he's a man of many different you know reptile I went when when when I I'm out I don't have Malookan doing more and then everyone's while Scott will throw out pictures and you'll make me want Malookan's back so badly it's ridiculous so one day I will get back into that I found out of the scrubs that Malookan's were the chillest I don't know but for me they were the they were super chill they're the chillest but the thing is they're like the middle model because they're not because Tana bars are the smallest but Tana bars are second pass so I don't like Tana bars because they're tiny and evil and then you have the bar next which are large and evil and then you have Malookans that are mellow and medium sized and you know can get huge but still I would much I want I want to get back into Malookan's all of the scrubs I don't want anymore so it's just how that's going to go yeah I keep listening back to old episodes of the show and it's so funny how like we talked about you know different things and how excited we are about getting these different things into our collection and how I don't know what's the word I guess like it's sort of like yesterday's news which is kind of a shame I get it away but it's just like you know we're always chasing that next thing you know and it's like you know I'm sure three years from now we'll be looking back and listening and saying oh shit you know I was super excited about this then and now it's like yeah now I hate them yeah no big deal yeah it's like the what is it the species of the week between you and I has been blue barons racers because I'm like look they're like rhinos but cheaper and venomous and bigger on my eye and they're blue these things are awesome you're like why do you want these things I'm like because I want them go to hell so it's like that's the new thing for me this week so we'll see if listening to this episode a couple years from now we're all like oh yeah those were psychotic I'm so glad I never I'm so glad I got them quickly I mean yeah so like for what was that I know I was gonna go ahead no I mean it's like it's like you know it these are the animals you try and then you might not like him it's like how like we were talking about I bet you're a couple of episodes back we're talking about my trade with Lon and I'm like I'm gonna go and bless the shot I don't want bloods anymore I don't I know for my bloods I'm done done stuff it's like if I can bring that out thing back to me I'm gonna wash my hands that creature so I'm sure that that will keep it very happily without you know any problems oh yeah the you know like okay so I really do like the Borneo's blood seems to be a little finicky for me seems that for whatever reason you know I don't know I got a couple of them and they seem to be in but the sad news is that you know that Halloween bright Borneo that I had yeah it regurgs and then died I'm not really sure what happened but yeah I don't know I find a dumb sound if I you know it happens you know it was kind of like one of those things where I can't really tell 100% if it regurgs or if it's you know if it's shit but I don't know any well I mean I just assumed it was regurgs because when when a when a short tail doesn't look like crap shit yeah you know pretty much so it's been sitting in the intestines for a month and a half it is very properly digested so you know yeah it's that that's so I'm sorry to hear that dude yeah yeah I kind of well fortunately I have the the mom well Matt has the mom it's the same thing that has the female probably gonna end up saying it is place to everything he gets all these Borneos and bloods and he's like what the heck did I do okay all right I'm totally hilarious is Matt got a clutch of chondros yeah that's pretty awesome man that's pretty awesome oh it's amazing so he's got these ground dwelling huge ass slug of animals and re-ticks and then these tiny little fragile tree dwelling ones and it's like he's like the eggs are so tiny I don't know what to do and I'm like yeah they're small shit our taste so it's gonna be awesome to see you know when those things hatch you know how Matt can kind of relate what is bornos and his re-ticks to the the chondros and you know I think we're gonna have to drag him back on after the babies are established so you can tell us how you know badly you want to do like how all yeah his hair out and like wanted to die so yeah you know I was thought it's it's funny I was talking to I was talking to Rob earlier and I was telling him about how I know I'm biased when I say this but you know for me it just it's like it's like the gods keep the snake gods keep sending me signs that carpet play out and he eats his eyes on to keep because I'm never had any issues with carpet play thoughts not with shedding not with you know just dropping dead not with you know I bet I'm not going wood crazy how I don't know maybe I'm getting a little reptile lazy man but I don't I'm just like you know I don't know it's like these species are difficult so as a blood group or the short tail group some options seem to be the one that I'm kind of locked in on you know okay they're doing really really well I really like black snakes you know and to have a solid black plate on with with you know those eyes and yeah it's just it's just bad ass so I got a nice group I have a few bornos and such but it's just kind of a bummer and I know it happens and you know you'll get back up more force and that kind of thing but you know when like your price just kind of like croaks for no reason you start questioning everything you're doing and oh you know but then then you look through the room and you're like Kelly everybody else is doing doing well you know it just seems like yeah I don't know they're very a lot more sensitive let's say then you know carpets are at least for me in my experience so you know I don't know it seems like I guess my room is geared towards Australia I don't know if you're from Australia you're gonna do well in this room but now back to Matt's Clutcha Condros you know he gets he's got to get some credit man because I'll tell you what not for nothing but he's got his she's got his snake keeping skills pretty down solid man you know it's really yeah he's got it he's got it he's got it nailed in he knows what's going on he spread multiple different species and he just tried to go with Condros and he nails it yeah he was there that's a great species this year he got these really good to get the retics he's got the condros then he had the bloods right I don't know if you have a clutch of four nails along with the back count I don't know I'm still kind of stumbling through these and you'll yell at me later about this yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm pretty sure yeah that it's going to be a really awkward drive to where we're going this weekend if I don't get bloods and borneos right by then so good lord dude yeah well you know it is what it is you can't love everything but you try it and you go and that's the thing is you tried it which is why I'm like I want to drive Baron's racers and team wars and why what did I text you and I'm like man these Baron racers are going to be on my list but first blackface white lips more up scale team wars team wars inland damn it it's like it's too freaking long so I'll get them eventually probably not to like the after so but yes it's cool but you know their news which hit the news because then we have to get Scott and we have to get to do the show so yeah he's saying he's hanging on the line there but well maybe we'll get him on here we'll get him to talk about the the jungle that you were conversating about people but jungles yeah he's a jungle guy but I wanted to so yesterday I come home on that Monday I think I come home from work and you know how like when you walked up to the door yeah it was that's right that's it yeah anyway you walk up to your front door and it's like propped open with a big package you know and then it doesn't contain snakes yeah yeah well yeah usually you're there to pick up snakes but for a second when I walk up I'm like oh shit somebody said somebody sent me a snake somebody sent me a snake oh shit I forget about something I'm on a tag like I'm running up to the thing because it's been there for like you know three hours and it's been freezing cold and the wind is like you know crazy and I'm like oh shit who would have sent me something on a Monday you know so anyway I run up and I'm like oh okay now and I'm thinking maybe it's something I ordered and I'm trying to think and you know I open up the box sure enough it was the reptile report award which is a trophy it's actually very very nice but nice it's pretty cool I guess we'll have to do like what do they call that we'll have to set up visitation rights Owen so you get it for like three or four years till we win another one if we win two then you can keep one and I can keep one and we'll be good but I would request that we build trophy cases that like play music and rotate and have like shining lights just for carpet I mean yeah there you go that would be nice yeah we'll all get on that so but I'm glad we got it looks nice and I'm you know you and I were both kind of shocked that we won it so it's cool it's a cool thing to have so yeah so special thanks out to the reptile report team for for you know all the awesome work that they did and you know with the 2015 best of awards and you know thanks for the people that voted for us we appreciate it so hopefully you get something after the show so let's let's do this we're going to click on I guess I'm going to have to send him a picture of this unless he sent that so let's click on Scott he should have seen you by now what's up Scott welcome back hello gentlemen gentlemen that's not not in this place you know I'm eating that long ago yeah so what's up how you know we're doing all right what we were going to talk about real quick since you're the jungle connoisseur oh no I don't know if you saw it but I keep a few good math that's a couple of mitts okay so this did you see the picture that Jayrod Manley from smoke and serpents posted up today of this clutch of jungles that hatched out of course I saw it come on see told you that's what I'm saying I'm going to let me down yeah all right so did you see the one with the crazy amount of black yeah what is that from is that the younger class wasn't anything else now we're going to hit him up and that's what I am and that yeah I am so like I've never seen you know me at home we're talking about it before and he said it's too young to sort of well go ahead oh and you say what you thought I don't want to put words in your mouth I'll talk so I said it looks nice it looks like a very nice baby and if I had hatched it definitely would get a little tag on its thing on its bin that says watch this one but it is so tiny and it's so fresh and baby carpets look so dull I said to Eric that I need to have three or four like sheds under under its belt before I make the decision of like you know yeah it's a ton of black or yeah that's nice and clean and crisp it looks awesome it looks interesting but I've seen baby carpets that come out really interesting and as they shed maybe the color kind of shifts a little bit the pattern kind of changes a little bit especially when they hit that like three foot mark and their scales kind of spread out a little bit more it would just be something I would keep an eye on but I just still think it's really cool looking and I think it's got a lot of potential but I would love to see it further along the road when it sheds out a few more times you literally take the words right out of my mind thanks very much literally with I thought don't put something wrong that thing is going to be because you've got a lot of light blocking yellow so I'm sure that thing is going to be an absolutely gorgeous animal but I'm going to see it in a shed or two I think it's definitely going to have a lot of black and clean black so it's going to be a nice animal but like the picture of another so it's going to be just this crazy I don't know 70% black animal that's going to be but it's going to be interesting I agree with that one you know you never know you know I want to see it in three sheds and see how it develops and all that yeah it's weird when people get really excited about fresh hatchlings and it's like unless it came out like red with polka dots on it I really can't gauge a hatchling like it's got to be an extreme thing like a pie ball before I'm like that's a different thing so I agree you literally took the right out of my head today so I think my my feeling is that it's the path to do not so much that I'm saying it's going to be my thoughts that it necessarily would be like a killer color as far as the jungle part of it goes like the yellow but the pattern to me is where it's at pattern I mean to me from what I can see from looking at it and again you're right it is young it's you know it's got to have its first year and all that it's hard to tell with the tipping where it's going to come in but even if that comes you know if you look on the back there's like spaces it's almost like a dot down the back which to me it's just got potential for a selective breeding project to where you know you're going to have a high percentage black instead of a high percentage yellow I wouldn't disagree with that it's got to be I don't know I think is what makes it like you said interesting for high black teachers it's the pattern if you can see where the light color is and where the black is and it's it's definitely more black than normal it's not banded it's not like I don't know like broken bands like you see but it's it's weird man it's definitely interesting it works and I want to see it in a couple shed and see what what it looks like you know that takes you guys that fresh hatching look you know that right out of the egg you really can't see what's going on too much so like two three sheds down the road when you get a better idea yeah I mean that's that's kind of like you know the same thing happens with albinos you know when albinos hatch out and especially if you're mixing morphs into the game I mean you can't tell what it's just a pink snake I mean you're like that what what I mean I'll fix it I'll fix it I'll fix it I've had really dark coastal and as they've grown they kind of just become they start getting that khaki color the cream color you know the normal coastal colors come in so what was a fresh new baby that was dark is held after a couple sheds is now the colors come in like the dark the darkest babies I've ever hatched are my red tigers they come out like almost black and then after a few sheds they start getting I have to like their first shed you start seeing those stripes and all the pink that eventually will turn into the red or the orange color so it's like the colors haven't aren't really here yet this thing could look drastically different after its own first shed so yeah I would love to see it it's difficult to tell with you know you take I chase I mean they all hatch out red you know it's exactly kind of like you're you're like you know is this one going to be nice is this one going to be nice and by all means we're not trying to talk down the animal and we're not trying to say that we shouldn't get excited about it oh no I love it yeah yeah I love it great animal and like I said it has a shit ton of potential it would get the gold star on the bend did you like and this one doesn't get to leave until I've decided it can so it's like and that is a good animal so and we're all pretty excited to see what happens with them so yeah her it so I want to clear something up I heard you guys saying about the more I do have more sadly why you're all leaving I forgot you forgot I do have granted those don't count no one cares about they don't count and I really use is they're all leaving see to be fair do we count het granted cuz I am keeping one female that I put up you guys saw yeah I do count that and I really don't care about making more granite so I don't know when I'm looking for a heck granite you know male or granite boy yeah no no I'm selling my adult grandma my adult male is actually already sold I'm going to be going somewhere hopefully next week and momma there you go and then all of the babies you're already spoken for so I will have no visual morph carpet so we have a two ball python that might be a little bit faster and stuff so here's more here but Parker wise now there'll be no more visual morphs after maybe another month or so it and my dream is to hatch something that Scott wants and I will be like Scott I will give you the greatest deal ever but you have to take this caramel jag with it and you have to take all of them and go over here and get to the caramel jag and you know for a year so and just watch him like kind of suffer through having a more product it's better luck with a normal caramel man because I don't know sometimes I think about it and I'm like I won't have a jag just out of principle because it seems like there's like two or three of us who have never owned a jag like if you have carpet you have a jag your own jag and that's what I do I don't even know what they are I think there's one or two if I really thought about it that don't have jags but I've never owned a jag and I won't have a principle just because and to be fair I also I don't like mural and stuff right I don't know I just we have a couple here a couple of my girls ball python have the spider gene in them and and they're not Bob but like I don't know like everybody has jags so I'm like you know what I'm not worried about the jags and don't get me wrong man there's time I am tempted because there's some nice angles you guys put off you know Jason Scott freakin gorgeous jag coastal being friends with Mike Curtin sucks and I'll tell you why it's your path a lot being friends with him because his frickin awful lots are just they're just getting stupider and stupider where it's like come on and this is and this funny thing is it's not good to walk up I'll see him at white planes and with no doubt my fiance will love the awesome lots and you know we'll be sitting with scattershot who's like you know like one of their snakes in the country she wants the awesome lots and I'm like well shit you know we'll make sure happy I guess eventually it'll make me happy right so oh so what I should do is a carpet vest just give your fiance a tiger dang but you can take that home with you you guys already tried that shit I know I know you're not a hard thing Bill and Claudia are the worst for that for Con drill I know I have no you guys know I have no room yes well but look I'm gonna I'm gonna attempt hopefully I have patched out at that point off a lot jags head albino so I really mudded up for you I don't even know we're going to Spanish that's Spanish or something yeah I don't know what the hell is albino be fair I'm not against more you guys know we've had the conversation I don't hate more not against more I just made the decision where everyone is doing more some like but you know I'm a jungle guy and classic jungle does it for me I don't need anything else so but like I get tempted every day that's the that's kind of the cool thing about carpets though I mean you can sort of you know I mean it's like you can be into all these different things and still be into carpets it's kind of like you know I don't I can't think of another group of pythons or snakes for that matter that really have that kind of you know that kind of draw you know because like just for instance if you're in the morse and you're into ball pythons you can't like nobody's gonna give two shits if you just have normal ball pythons I have normal ball pythons no one's gonna care this is the locality ball pythons you know it's like yeah no one cares whatever you know I mean so it's kind of like I don't know you got and there's so many different like even if there was no more you still have all these different colors you know you have pretty much everything covered I mean you're into more earth earth tones you have you know stuff like iJ's and costals if you're into the bright stuff you got jungles and if you're in I mean some of the jungles they're doing today it's just sick man the young man is just crazy you know it's like what the hell it's good man it's good because like you said it it there's anything you want to do you you have there man but at the same time I feel bad for new people because it's confusing or it's a little more complicated right that's true too yeah especially with us with the politics of involved is as you guys know sometimes yeah it's gonna get all swept up and we've all been on that post yeah we asked someone said today you know I'm looking for a male female heart victim it's like that maybe a little bit of reading because it's not like I just had a male female myth it's a little more involved in it Scott, I mean, it was perfect. Some guy was like, "I want a carpet python, male or female." It's going to be my first one and his response was, "Get the complete carpet python." I'm like, "Thank you." You saw me? I don't even need to, I don't even need to weigh in on it. I'm good now. So, yeah. And then he put that... Go to the porn that's the radio show. Yeah, there you go. Good, good bye. I mean, in a way... I dropped everything I need. Yeah. In a way, in a way. I mean, come on, man. It's easier, it's more easier than ever to research carpet python. I mean, think about it. In 2007, there was no book, no podcast. There was only a forum and everything was on the carpet. There was no carpet fest, you know. And now, it's like all there for people just to dive into. And they wonder why we didn't have set when they don't. Exactly. And I feel old because I'm like, "And we had striped cozels, and we were glad to have those striped cozels." In my day, all we had was striped cozels, so it's like, "And that's as funny as hell." Yeah, it's like one of the things that, you know, I hope that we get into in the show, Scott, is like some of the... One of the things that we're trying to do is put some of the lineage or the names out there of these animals. So there's sort of like a record of it, you know what I mean? It's kind of like... So people understand some of the stories of like, you know, it was just like you said, "Scattershot," or "Madam Blueberry," or, you know, "Post of Child." You know, there's all these different animals, I think of like, "Mo with Riddler." Like, there's people that don't even know who Riddler is. I mean, that makes it sick. I don't even know where it is now. Yeah, we actually had discussed this a couple of years ago, some of us, and it was hard because some of the guys who paved the way for us, Jason, Mike, you know, the guys before them, Andrew Hare, the guys who aren't even in it anymore, those guys don't have the time to do all the work that would be needed to do to get all this lineage put together. Because they have families, you know, they realize, you know, they breed, but it's like, you know, they have full-time jobs, you know, family with kids, you know, they've had these animals. I thought about it too, and I think the best you can do is whatever animals you have, do the best you can to get their lineage for that. So from here on out, you know, that we have the knowledge in there. As you produce more clutches down the line, you know, then at least you have the parents, or maybe you have the grandparents, you know, it's hard. But some of us have animals that go back to some of that, you know, animals that go back to Andrew Hare and VPI stuff, lazy stuff, some of the old stuff. Yeah, some of those lines, though, I mean, especially with jungles, like, when do you see anything that's like, you know, Larry Black, or the only one that I know that works with Ben and better is Eric Kohler. I think Nick has some of that stuff, but, you know, I mean, these lines, these bloodlines that sort of just got, you know, lost. It's kind of a shame in life, but that's the other thing. Make friends with a couple of guys who do know shit. Nick knows, you know, obviously he knows, he knows a lot, and there's a gentleman I think you're having on the show next week. That guy knows, man, he knows jungle lines real freaking well, David. Oh, yeah, whatever you don't know, that's also about it, but he knows jungle lines, like these guys have the knowledge base, so at least, you know, you can put at least a good number of the puzzles. Yeah, yeah, that was a good thing. Yeah, that was a good thing. Briefly, you know, briefly, when, you know, it was coming on the show, and, you know, the knowledge of things that he was, you know, he also keeps chondros, and he was talking like a chondro guy, but about carpets, and, you know, I was just like, it was like Christmas day for me, you know. It's like, it's like, you know what it's like, I equate it to this, it's like when, you know, you know, like when you saw Star Wars and you found out that Darth Vader was the father of Luke Skywalker. Like that kind of thing, you know what I mean? You're the kind of like, you're like, holy shit. You know, it's, it's like the door is opened and you, you know, this big secret town, I don't know. Yeah, it's like, Think of Coastal, like, who, who's, does anybody even know, like, we say this name, Lemke, Lemke Line Coastal, does anybody even know who that dude is? You know, he's dead. Yeah, not many, probably. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know, you're probably right with that is a lot of stuff can we get left by the wayside, but, you know, because, I don't know that many people that are still working with it, except for like, and pulls of people, so. I think that's what happens. Some of the guys, when they get out of it, all of a sudden that info with, with those founder animals, if you don't already have it somewhere, if somebody doesn't have that, like Nick, or someone that keeps track, then it gets lost. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because that knows the animals could be sold to someone who's not on Facebook, who's not on any social media, who really doesn't go on a forum, you know, that might get sold to someone like that. Next thing you know, well, where's, you know, Madam Blueberry? Where's, well, I know Scattershots, I'm going anywhere, because me and Mike have had that conversation, but, you know, where's the family? Yeah. I'm actually glad about that. It wasn't because I wanted to buy it. It's just because his life doesn't allow him to sell it. And I was like, that's good. I know that animals staying with a friend of mine, so, you know, it's good to know that. Right. Right. It's like, like, if Eric were to ever try to get rid of poison ivy, I'd be like, should I buy it just cause I don't want it to go anywhere or, you know, and then it wouldn't be able to breed for me. So it'd be a useless animal anyway. So, yeah. You still haven't bred them, huh? Yeah. All right. I'm going to end up breeding like Bull and I before I ever breed. Okay. It's the way it's going to go. I have two species of monitor lizard courting each other and breeding in my house. I can't get freaking eye jays to do it. Well, it's actually pretty funny. I know. It's awesome though. It's awesome. It's funny. It's funny. You guys said how I had this colubrid kick for, I had that for like two days, and really that was just cause a lion had to be an asshole and keep posting up all these beautiful animals. I kind of faded and the next thing you know, I wanted to get some monitors again and freaking all these beautiful black rough necks coming from Indonesia and I'm like, "Holy shit." You know, I have no room. I have no room for a monitor right now. We're literally in the process of looking at houses and stuff and it's like, "I can't buy a monitor right now." So that kind of went away, at least for now. So I'm pretty good with snakes though. Python-wise, like, pretty happy because I have stuff that I never thought I'd have or stuff like that. I mean, there's more I want, of course. I'd like to get more jungles. Not that I have enough already, but more Ly-S. Maybe more Malukans if I'd come up for sale and they're not, you know, expensive. Well, no, I've seen some beautiful ones up for sale not too long ago and it's like, they're worth every penny, but I can't afford it right now. So, or the space. Somebody threw up a pair a little bit ago and I'm like, "Those are gorgeous for $1000 and goodbye." It's like, "Nope, thank you. It's moving on." Yeah. Somehow Malukans went up and right a lot. So those things though, I've seen pictures of those animals that were, the pictures he put up, I don't even think were the best he had, man. No! No! Malukans. Yeah. So, and they were also adults if I remember right, so it's like you kind of make your own price, so if you get it, you get it, I guess. I don't know. I got pretty lucky in mind. I didn't pay, I didn't sell a leg or anything. And that's actually your fault. Yeah. So if I return the favor, if I return the favor, you know, you have to buy a Malukan eventually. That's your fault to be getting it. I know. I'm tasteful. Yeah. Yeah, that was that eye cast. Yeah, that was that eye cast. See, like eye cast was so much fun, and I wouldn't be surprised if half the people that were eye cast ended up walking away and buying Malukans, and which is probably why price is so high, because an army more left, because that animal, she left my table at like two o'clock in the afternoon. And I think I got her back around like nine o'clock at night, and I'm like, "Where the hell is the Malukan?" That is what ended up happening, and it's like she just drifted around the room to different various people's hands. I mean, I think Mark Spittaro had her for 20 minutes. You had her for a bit. Um, Casper had her for a while. Eventually, like, I saw her across the room and I'm like, "All right, she's good." And then she eventually worked her way back, but it was just funny itself. So. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, man. After that, I was hooked, and people are like, "Man, where do you find your Malukans? Where do you find this or that?" And I tell people, it's like, "Man, just put it out there. Just make it no secret that you need this animal, and it will fall in your freaking lap eventually." And that's, I literally both of mine's pretty much fell in my lap. I mean, the male especially. I mean, I walked up to a table at White Plains, and I'm not going to name who it was just because, but he's a good dude, and he goes, "Oh, you want a Malukan?" You want a Malukan, right? And I'm like, "Oh, shit." And then, you know, I knew that it was cool. Yeah. So, you know, I got Midas, who is not for sale, although people keep freaking messaging me and commenting and find and get this freaking snake. He will never be for sale. So. And then, and then my female, I'm lucky. Most honestly, got for me as a, as a president. I actually had seen the snake and shown it to her and told the kid. I was like, "Man, I wish, but I can't." You know, I don't want to, I have no room. I can't afford it. And next thing you know, she decided to go up there and get it for me with the cage and everything. Now I have a female. And they're both freaking fantastic, man. The male Midas, it's funny when you talk about scrubs, man. Malukans are not bad at all. Mine are both fantastic. It's just, you gotta be careful with Midas because it's like, it's weird. They take longer to go off of that food mode when you go into their cage. Like carpets, you touch, you touch them a little. There's something that's like, "Oh shit, I might get fed." All right. And they're fine. Yeah. Midas? Midas? It takes me probably three minutes before I'm like, "Okay, I feel okay now grabbing, you know, a piece of you now because you've turned off." Yeah. But. You're not feeding me? Yeah. Oh. It's like a little tree. Yeah. I just, I just made him go 57 days without food for a little, for a little, just to fasten a little bit, just to stretch it out a little bit. And he hates me. He's so mad. Oh yeah. He's fed him yesterday. It's funny because they're like the same way with carpets. They're food response and all that. Like, they just want to be fed every day and scrubs, especially like my scrubs and white lips. I don't really feed much at all. And, you know, for a couple weeks or probably a month, he was like, every day, getting food. But then like the last week, he just ignored me like, as just an FU or something. Like he was just so fed up that I could not feed him. I know you're not feeding me. You're not even going to get me to look at you. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it turned into. But, you know, the rats came out last night and it was like, "Oh, my God." It was pretty funny. It just was awesome. They're awesome. Yeah. They're definitely cool snakes. You know, the one thing that with them in particular is that I never noticed until I had them. It's like the lavender cues that show up in the male area. You know, it's like, "Oh, man. That's such cool Python." I'm surprised. It surprises me that people haven't tried to, you know, I guess produce. I don't know. It just seems like such a cool snake that people just kind of missed a boat on, I guess. I don't know. Yeah. I don't think that's what it is. I think they want to. I think there's people that have, you know, unfortunately the people that apparently have figured out at least somewhat of the secret are not in this country. Right. You know, Phillips in Canada. So I think there has, but I think some of the guys who figured it out or maybe were closer, you know, for whatever reason moved away from the project because I don't know. I think that's the thing with scrubs. If you listen to anybody that has kept scrubs for a long time, you know, that's what it is. You have to be very patient with that project. And I think that, unfortunately, in today's world, we're so, you know, instantaneous gratification mode that, you know, a project like that is really something that you have to be passionate about. And if you're not in that for the long term, then you might as well not even waste your time. Which, you know, is funny. I mean, like that for anything. Right. Like you said, everybody wants instant gratification. So I think that's probably why some of this stuff you see gets crazy, like crested geckos, stuff like that that can breed pretty quickly, pretty easily, even ball pythons that people are breeding in a couple of years. But like the other stuff, it's like these people get these dreams and hopes and like I'm going to, you know, breed this and it's like, well, it's obviously not that easy because it hasn't been done before or it has been done for rarely. So I don't get why people are more patient. I get it, but I mean, you just got a good patient and it's weird because I think of this all the time now, it's like, you know, had I fought the right way? If I was to be doing this 16 years now, whatever it is, like man, if I started something 10 years ago, knowing I'd still be doing this, I'd be way ahead of the game or something, you know, I have old enough animals or this or that. I think that's part of it. Any other part is sometimes, you know, I don't know, maybe have no luck with it for a long enough time and some pops up, some other project or some animal you're like, man, I got to have that and, you know, like, well, these guys aren't really producing for me and maybe that's one of the reason people sell them. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, like, you take a guy like Rob Stone, right? Okay. I guarantee you that if it's not this year or next year, but within the next three years he's going to produce all my hair scrubbeds. And why do I say that? Because he's had this female for a long time. He's focused on this project. He has a pair of them. He's made tweaks along the way of, you know, it didn't work. That didn't work. Maybe tried this. Maybe tried that. But the point, I guess my point is that if you look at like scrubs or white lips or any of these more, what would you say, high strong type of species, I think as soon as you take them into an environment, they take, you know, four years to acclimate or something like that. And then, you know, by the time that comes around, you sell them. And then, you know, it takes another four years. And then the person, it just, it resets the project. And then you have these adult animals that are 12 years old that have never reproduced because they just keep getting moves around from hand to hand to hand. And I don't think they're particularly difficult to produce. I don't think there's a special, you know, like a secret to it. But, you know, it just has to do with the fact of being patient. I really believe that. I honestly believe that there's nothing special about them. You know, it could think about it. At one point, reticks were hard to breathe. At one point, all my sons were hard to breathe. You know, people were like, "I can't breathe them." You know, and now look at it. They breathe like three months out of the egg. I think there's one thing. I think there is something to maturity with some of this stuff. I would agree. And then the other problem is that a lot of the mature stuff is wild caught. So you're already starting behind the eight balls of that because wild caught is a pain. So then, you know, like you said, you get the guys who finally figure it out, and you get the wild put animals to breathe, produce a clutch, those animals get sold. And you got someone who gets them, and you know, like you said, man, they don't breathe six months later, or a year and a half later, like ball python, supposedly do, or just I know some people do. And it's like, "Oh shit, man, you know, these things aren't breathing. And even two and a half years, three and a half years." It's like, "Oh, maybe they need to be five, six, seven years old to breathe." You know, when no one wants to wait that long. And like you said, they get sold and sold and sold. And that's the kicker, because it's like what you were talking about with earlier, like if you started something and, or if you had the hindsight to get started in something, and now you're doing it 16 years down the road. If you're the kind of guy, like what I used to be, where I kept getting these animals, trying, getting frustrated, selling those animals, getting more adult animals, trying frustrated, selling them. I mean, I realized that I eventually had been keeping white lips for like four or five years. And I never kept it the right way. I kept buying adult animals or wild caught juveniles and raising them up, and then selling them when they got the breeding issues, nothing bred. And it's like I realized all the frickin' son, if I just shut the hell up, saved all the money that I was spending on wild caught animals, stopped chasing the quick way, spent the money on captive born and bred babies, and raised them up. If I just on that way back then, I would have had adult breeding captive born and bred animals. So... Man, you would have put it in the market. I know, stupid Owen. So, honest with you guys, that's why I got rid of all my wild lips like a year ago, because all I have now are captive born and bred babies, and the two adults that I'm raising up to be what I want. I mean, that's the whole point is that in seven years, I'll have nothing but seven-year-old trio of captive born and bred white lips hopefully ready to roll. Don't tell those. I'm not selling them. They're mine. If you want to give them to me, that's cool. I love it because I talk all this thing about establishment and getting everything ready. I got, I was gifted a pair of adult golds in like December, and I'm pretty sure the females grab it. So, I'm like, you're going to make me a freaking liar to everybody I've ever told everything to. You know, I know. I'm going to get, thank God. Because if I wouldn't know how to explain eggs. So, it's like, if she produces them, I'm going to be like, shit. Now I have to tell everybody I was wrong. There's exceptions to every rule. You get the right pair. This happens to walk into a room. I hate that, man. I hate people like that. I don't really hate them, but it's like, man, you got this project. You know what I mean? It's like, man, if we're going to handle together, next thing, no, there's a clutch. Yeah. Not fair. It's just great. I mean, that's good. Yeah. Yeah. I think that you're right on the individuality. I mean, we're talking about generalities when it comes to, you know, at least I am. But I think that every once in a while, you're going to have a snake that, for whatever reason, activates to your environment and feels comfortable in your, you know, in your snake room. And, you know, I mean, maybe it came from a spot where it was on display out in the front where, you know, everybody's walking by and stressing the shit out of the snake. And now it's in a snake room where, you know, maybe somebody's only in there once a day or something like that. I can certainly see that with certain things, especially white lips, that people keep them in certain ways. And it's like, well, yeah, that might not be conducive to breeding. In white lips. No. Not to mention. I think part of the problem was when you have a large percentage of animals that literally hate you. It will just really hate you. It's also hard. Nothing more about your death or seven years. You know what I mean? Who wants to keep a snake that wants to kill you for seven years? Not all of them are like that. I finally found out that there is some truth to that rumor. But, and actually by all the rumors, that's also top of one animal. Bane, my male gold, who's supposed to be captain born. I got him from a local friend of mine who, he likes white lips and he dabbles and carpets. I think he's got, he had a snake for you at one point. Oh, that's unfortunate. He had this tame man. And I didn't actually, I didn't actually believe him until I went over his house tonight. And I held the thing and I'm like, oh shit, you really do have a handable white lip. I never really met one of these. My female is not that right at all. They're few and far between. And that's actually, I wouldn't say that. I'd say white lips are a crapshoot. It's either I'm going to have you and you're going to be pretty much act like a flighty carpet python where maybe you'll nip, but most of the time you'll just kind of cruise really quickly. Or their psychopaths from the deepest pits of hell. So I have one of those. Exactly. So it's a toss up. I mean, and that's true with gold. That's true with blacks. That's just true with white lips in general. I've had nasty like eight foot golds that are trying to murder me. And I've had black faces that are truly chill. My captive born breads, my two girls act perfect. My male lips out, bites and pisses on everything. I hate it. So Jesus, I hate you. And the lot that goes into it, man, I think there's more than we know. I think there is those individuals when they're bad, man, they're like insane bad. And then there's ones where it's like if you can get it to trust and work it the right way, you have a shot. My female's not like that. She decided any hook that came near her, she was going to kill. So it's like any work with her. I couldn't work with her because of that. Now I pretty much treat her like she's venomous just because to keep the stress down on her because I do want to breed eventually. So her hide is something that I can close her in and take her out and clean the cage and such. And then she's luckily, she likes to spend time on the other side of the cage when she's not digesting or something or whatever. And I'll take the hide out and clean the hide if she wants me. Since we're talking about white lips, why don't you go into a little bit of white lip stuff? What are you working with exactly? How are you keeping them? What's your approach? I only have 1.1 Northerns. I don't know. I'm not as much of a fan as the blacks. They're cool and nice. But I like to go up a better personally. And I don't have the room to really build on my project. So I decided just to keep it on email. And then once I got the mail, now I was going to play them last year. She's just insane. And I've talked to you and every other white lip guy, Chris. I talked to Chris also. And it seems you guys all know that the pairing has to be compatible. So I got really nervous when I brought my mail home. It was before winter, but not this one. I think I've had about a year and a half now, over two years. And I looked at him, I looked at her, I looked at him, I looked at her, and I'm like, "Oh man, I'm really nervous." Because she outsides it in quite a bit, and she's an insane bitch. And I'm like, "If she goes off, she goes." And if she goes after him, he didn't have the size to really handle that. So I was like, "You know what? I'm in no rush. I'll give it another year." And then I think, this year, I did the same. I said, "I want to get more size on them." But keeping them when they're small enough, I like growing them up in clubs. I've had great success keeping them in clubs. It just works in my room. The tub's newspaper and a water bowl and a hide. The humidity stays perfect. I don't even put bedding in my tubs because sometimes the humidity gets too high if it gets wet. I don't like the white lips to be wet. That's the big thing people don't understand about humidity. It doesn't mean the cage is soaking wet to keep the humidity at 80%. And that's why I argue about that in so many groups with carpets. Because humidity does not matter for carpets, really. Not really. Hydration does. But, I mean, the tub's with newspaper, really. A hide, a water bowl. And that's it. The humidity stays great. And then I had my female and a custom built melamine four foot by two foot deep by 18 foot tall cage rating heat panel. I wouldn't, I don't know, myself, I did it years ago and I had my first insane white lip. I think I probably had a heat lamp on her, but these days I don't think I would do that. I feel that would just dehydrate them more than anything else. So I'm a big rating heat panel person when it comes to especially white lips. My scrubs also. I keep my scrubs the exact same way. It's going to be just a little bit different because you guys all see me pictures of Midas, you've got core park and stuff. But, you know, I give her, she's got, like I said, I bought these perfect plastic totes from Walmart that are like locking clothesable. And I had my friend just circle cut in the top of it. And then if I want to take her out and she's in the tub, I just cover the entrance hole, take the tub out, clean the cage or something. You know, cleanliness is also a big thing of white lips. I try my best to keep them pretty clean and not wet. Although now in my adult cage in that I do give her loss and keep that moist the best I can. She has a humid hide and she goes back and goes between the two. Like she likes being on the cooler dry side or the warmer moist hide, she'll go in there. Night time and they're crazy active at night, like more so than probably, I don't know, wealth. I don't know if anything else I have is that active at night. Like once the lights go out, they're very often all over the cage, freaking messing everything up, bending the wire for the temperature probe, making a mess. But, you know, I also, the other thing I do is I do use cypress mulch in the cages. So during the bed cycles, I do miss. I don't miss, well, for the time, to be honest, unless it's really dry, but like during the warm part of the season, my room's not bad. So like when they go to a shed cycle, I usually miss at night or something like once a day. And again, with the rating, heat panels, it's not, the cages aren't overly ventilated. They're good ventilated, but not overly ventilated to hold humidity real well. And that's really all I do. You don't have to over complicate it, honestly. They're not that bad. Not that hard. Babies can be. I mean, you really do need to pay more attention with the babies because they can dehydrate quicker. But if you get one to sub-adult to adult, they're a little bit sturdier as long as you don't let them get real dirty. I really don't like letting them get wet. Humidity is not the wetness. It's the absorbed moisture in the air. You know, it's that Florida air that, you know, St. Thomas Virgin Islands type air you walk out. You're like, "Holy shit, this stuff is, you know, slouching the fade as you come out of the air condition room or something." Well, it's right. That's what you're looking for. Right. They're not that hard. Just got to be breathing. Man, I don't freaking know, praying to God she'll fill my mail. Literally, I mean, I think age is such a big thing. And I know she had her for a while now. She's up there. I'm pretty sure he has the age plus or minus a year. I'm just nervous as hell to put them together, honestly, because she's so touchy. You know, she would flip out, and I don't know. If the year long, then we'll see. I'm not going to do anything different than I do for anything else right now because I don't want to really mess with it. My room cooled itself in the winter anyway. I guess they were looking for a house, but I mean, my snake room would pretty much do the same thing. I'll do the temperatures the same way that my room is. I'm lucky that during the winter, it cooled down naturally by itself. I'm not freezing cold or anything, but I mean, I'll probably do that. Like, I do my carpets, you know, just maybe a little bit warmer. I wouldn't, like, if my carpets have the light goes out during the winter and they're in the '60s, like, I don't really don't care. I really don't worry, right away or anything, you know, something like that. The white lips, the shrubs, I'm a little more cautious of that. I keep them a little bit warmer, I don't let them drop as cold, but I don't think at first I would do anything. I would just wash their behavior, maybe feed them a little more going into breeding season or something, and then pray to God that she doesn't kill my male. That's tame. Yeah, that would suck. Yeah, I mean, you know what you know how it is, I'll move on. It's that first pack, but it's really where it begins. Non-competable ones apart. I mean, honestly, if that happens, that's the end of the end of the game for me. I really don't get a shit at that point. I'll probably, you know, I'll probably keep them both, maybe. I'll definitely keep them. If she's tame, I'll see what I want to do with her, or maybe I'll sell her to someone who, you know, is kind of continuing to try to breed them, but honestly, I'll put them together. It goes that bad, where I'm like, oh shit, this carrying's not going to work. You know, I'll go from there. So that's, it's this whole thing, this whole fun of keeping on the stuff, put on real quick when I put them together. I hope not. Yeah. It's all on her. Yeah. What's the youngest white lip you've ever had? Um, I mean, both females, I had the female that, shit, I got from you, really young. Well, she, you know, all I told her to the guy I ended up getting the mail from. Yeah, she was young, and then the female I have now, I mean, they were, I mean, it had to be a yearling. Two years top. I was, I think, a year, year and a half. They're very young, a female. I mean, I had a couple, a good three or four years on, by the time I got it, I'd say. But cool. And like I said, I'm not going to, because I saw, I bothered this guy for quite a while when I knew he had enough. But you know, you know how it is, this person has an animal you want. You're like, if you so, let me know. And he walked up to me to the kids. He showed me a lot of the white claims. And he was like, he's like, he's still interested in the white lip. I said, well, how much is this going to cost me? He goes, yeah, it's coming home. You know? Yeah, they go. And so, you know, and Dane is awesome. And he's 100% tame, you know. He eats every time white lips are, my white lips at least are fantastic eaters. They never stop eating. No, they never stop. And I don't feed them a lot either. Yeah. I do the same with my scrubs. I feed them sparingly. So, I don't want them answered either white lip. And then no one does. What's his name? Steve Steven Tillis. Did he breed his white lips? Like last year, his female was not you. No, they weren't. Actually, my largest captive female is one of Steve Tillis's gold. Okay. There you go. So, I have one of those. But it's funny. One last thing is like, and that's what the big condition I have with scrubs and white lips is that you have people in the camp over here that's like, they have to be 14 feet. And then you have people over here that's like four feet and they'll breed. And both the problems is that both people have been successful. Like, god damn it. So, I don't know. Yeah. It's maturity. Yeah. It's maturity. Yeah. No, it is. Yeah. So, Scott, one more thing. What was your reaction to your first ever white lip hairball? No, I don't even know, man. I don't even remember. Because I had white lip nine or 10, 11 years ago or something like that. It's so weird. It's something. I think most people don't even realize that they do it. Or at least people are interested in this feature. And once you own it and you see it the first time, you're like, stuff. Because that. I mean, I read about it and stuff. And I had seen it. Have you ever seen him do it? I've never seen him do it. Yes. Well, actually, I've never caught it at times. I've caught it a bunch of times. But the one time I was away and Andrew, both of you guys have met Andrew. He's the monitor breeder friend of mine. He was over watching my animals. And he calls me frantic and he goes, dude, your white lip. Something is freaking wrong with it. It's freaking out. And it just regurgitated this thing. They're like, oh, it's a hairball. They do that. And it's a long fall. It's so weird. What freaking animals do you have? I'm like, it's all right. So it's so weird when they do that. Because it looks like they do this. They supposedly do something else where they, it might be similar to the hairball. Or it might be involved with that. But what the hell is his name? He was like one of the guys. I haven't seen him on Facebook. I can't recall his name right now. But he was like, he had the white lip website for a while. He had early information on that. But anyway, he messaged a whole bunch of people onto his asking. They supposedly do this behavior where they suck in air and then release it from both their mouth and freaking ass or something. It was so weird. But I had a feeling that went hand in hand with the hairball thing. And I think I've heard it quite a few times. I've never seen it myself. I would see the hairball after. But I've never seen them in the behavior. It's not a gentle thing. No, if you've ever seen a snake regurg, it's not a gentle. It's not like that. It is there. They're writhing around. Their mouths are open. They're freaking out. And then this thing just pops out of them. And once they get it out, the white lip is like, oh, good. That's over. Let's go back to sleep. If it is the weirdest thing to see and that it happens on a regular basis, it's weird. Why do they do it? Why do they do it? No, I don't know. No idea. I think it's a really good question. I never thought about that. But it's like, I don't know. Just do it. Yeah. What do they mean? The wild. Are they eating rodents in the wild? I mean, the young ones will eat. The young ones will eat other stuff. Whatever they get, lizards will eat on python. And the older ones will eat the local rodent stuff. It's animals and birds. Yeah. So. Do they do any kind of like, are they, do they do anything like as far as combat or anything like that? Between like males? Yes. It's very violent. They all come back. Everything. Combat happens. What are you talking about? Yeah, you don't need to be a child. Oh, Jesus. Is there any white lashes at this point? Yeah. I know that, I know that like with olive python, you know, to really get them to go and be successful with them. Having an extra male is, you know, I'm just curious if maybe you guys thought about that with when it comes to breeding white lips. So I terrified to put my male and female together. I'd really be terrified with the female together. Yeah. Well, alright. I did try this because I did have that group of blackface for a while. And I had two boys, two girls. And I did have the one female in with the one male. And I did put the other male in there for like five freaking seconds. Before, I'm like, everybody's just gonna start killing everybody and you just stop. So I did kind of try, but I also chick it out. But I did do the whole like that male shed and that male shed. So I'm going to swap their sheds into different cases. Yeah, I was just going to say that's the way to play that game, the sheds. Yeah. So I did that. But I was, you know, I've never actually tried. And with those pairings, what I can tell you is I had two pairs of blacks and a pair of gold. And a trio of gold. And I had, out of pairs of blacks, I had one pair that were on the opposite end of the cage. And those were the ones that ended up fighting each other. And then I had another pair that would never leave each other's side. Like they were always curled up with each other. There was, so just looking at that, it's like with combat. You should have kept that pair. I told you I was stupid. So you should have kept that pair. I'm working on it. We'll get more. Blacks are on the list. I will have blackface before I turn 30. So you should get those new cool pain, you know, black, black, white, black, black. I know, rock. You know that? I know that. But these guys are all about it. They might be tame. Now let me say this. They might be tame. But all these people that are acting like they never came in the country before. Let me tell you. They've been here. Someone paid attention to, hey, they came from here. Now, hey, the first time, no, they've been here. They've come here. It's just that Dan, Dan, who is for an importer, I think Dan does a great job. It has incredible animals. He has to pay attention and, you know, and put in the homework. No one did that before. They've come through before. That's the same black, white lips. I guarantee you're the exact same locality. They're here. But, you know, when they're not there, they ain't never had. All the calm, white lips we ever had came from that area. Now we realize that they all came from that area. Yeah, that's all that too. Yeah. We'll see how tame they stay. Well, here's the thing. I would rather trade. My problem is that because I'm on the captive kick, I would trade a psychopathic captive born in bread, black base, for any tame wild caught. So I will be spending the money and getting a pair of captive born in bread, black base, white lips, which means I'll probably be about six, seven years away from trying to produce my own. And I will gladly take the time and wait and build them up. Absolutely. There you go. I think once they're more established in captivity, they'll chill out of it. I think so. I think it's just like a bull. If anything else, it's just like the more that they're bred, you know, the shit. I remember when I was a kid and my dad had pretext. Those things rip your face off. You know, I mean, because they were in the bush yesterday. Yeah. It's also that people have to understand what they are. They are territorial and they're also, I don't know if it's because they're that thin skin, but it seems like they don't like being touched. Like more so than anything else. If it's, if it's a mean one and it doesn't like being touched, then you touch it with a hook. It's, it's not going to be happy. Like you know. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I won't spray any of my white lips directly on their skin because that just, even my male, I think my male probably can do it. But man, my female, if I spray, forget about it. Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm. Oh, yeah. They'll whip around to look right at you. Huh. So. Yep. Interesting. Sometimes. Well, it's funny. I was trying to get pictures for Eric of the gold female. Cause I'm like, I think she might be gravid. And he's like, get me pictures. I'm like, I can't. She'll bite me in the face. He goes, why do you like white lips? Like it's, it's questionable. I have. I have. I have. I have. What's wrong with you? No. The one I had 10 years ago was insane and it only ate birds. Like, I don't know why I got back into them, but they're awesome. They're so pretty. Yeah, they're pretty. They're beautiful snakes. But, you know, like I was saying that, oh, I don't know if I was saying this on the air or before in like the pre-show thing. But, you know, it's kind of like, you have these, you work with these different species. You try them out. You're like, yeah, that's not for me. And then you move on. And like, you know, I keep going back to, you know, I'm okay if a carpet bites me. Like an adult carpet. If that bites me, no big deal. You know. That'll hurt. You know, whatever. But if you're getting bit by like, you know, a 12 foot scrub in the head. Like, you know, or like even an eight foot white lip. You know, I don't know, man. That would hurt. I don't know. It might be my room. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you want to move, I'll have like a different opinion because it'll be like room to move and stuff. You know, because my room is kind of tight. You know, like, it's like there's room in the center of the room. But it's not like, I don't know. I always felt like I could not get out of strike range of anything. You know, and I don't know. The work with an animal like that is kind of... I think about that with Midas too. Because when Midas is full grown, I think about, I'm like, man, when he has that first, I'm hungry. I want to rat strike before he realizes there's not food. It's going to be a pain when he's full grown, man. Because it's going to be like, he's coming out a lot of heat. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you need the room to be away from that. Yeah, I think we're kind of... I think what kind of did it for me with scrubs as far as, like, at the point if, like, meaning I necessarily am not at the spot to work with them. Just because when I was in the room and I was walking, I was working with a pair of southerners. And the thing, just like, you had to have two hooks. It gets on the one hook. It's striking at my hand. It's for me, the other hook. The other hooks drop. I can't get another one because it's across the room. You know, it's just like, I don't know. This is crazy. I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? And it's like, you know, I pick up the inland carpet and it's cool and I look at it and everything's gone. Put it back and, you know, juggles like little strike like it's going to pretend to bite you. And it's like... That's okay. And yeah. You know, it's cute. And I was like, you know, you pick up the scrub and it's like, you know, it's like a heat sinking missile. There's a big difference between aggressive carpet and maybe not all of them. But I mean, carpets that are trying to bite you and like, scrubbed in white. That's it really hate you, man, because I don't know. There's intent. It's such a huge difference. Like, when they really want to bite you, it's... Yeah, they're much smarter about it. You know, the carpets do it from far away and they'll just strike at you. It's cute. Yeah. So, I mean, I don't know. It's funny. Tonight I was... I have this... I have that app. It's a Raptor Scan. Yeah. And on the app now, because I have like the premium version of it, you can actually put in the weight of your animals. And what it'll do is it'll track the weight and it'll give you a graph of how much they've grown over the years. And, you know, it's just pretty cool for like data and information and such. Anyway, I saw it in my mail. You know, like Tiger Mail and my albino mail. I thought for sure that they were a thousand grams. Nope. 700 grams. 700? No, Jesus Christ. 700. He's sired three clutches, three years in a row. You know, he's 700 grams. And I'm like, oh my God. Wow. That's small. Yeah. But there's no need to really... I don't know. Keep them bigger. You guys probably... Well, no. Different, but... No. It's a proven male. You didn't need to get any bigger. It's his own damn fault for breeding. So... Yeah. Forget you, dude. Yeah. You really don't, man. I got two jungles. My VPI's are massive. I mean, my females. You've seen her in. It's that one from the calendar two years ago. Her head is... Right. It's massive. And, you know, I think it's two things. I think some of the old-school stuff, VPI stuff, and similar old-school lines were a little bigger anyway. But that was also when I had them. I also wasn't as well educated in stuff. So I did the old-school left feed and feed. And then she bred for me. I was like, "Right after she bred when I really should have slowed down." It was like, "No, let's feed and feed." And she's freaking massive. Yeah. It's been a nightmare getting them to breed again. I don't even know if it's her or him, honestly. But on the other hand, you have Spark, who should have bred for like three years. And then finally this year, he decided he wasn't gay or anything like that. Knocked up the lip so firmly. You know, I'm literally waiting on eggs to drop. I keep checking that she's making weight. But Mark was, from the moment Spark hit that minimum weight, then I was like, "Oh, you know, but first year it's like, "Oh, yeah, I'll put it together." It probably won't happen. It didn't happen. Then it was like two years after that where it was like, "Oh, now he's got that extra bit of weight on him. He's an old-school man. He's got aged. And he wanted nothing to do with nothing." So it's, like you said, it's getting mature enough and they don't necessarily need to be huge. I prefer not to do it as big. It's not massive seven foot. I don't even know how many pounds. It doesn't need to be huge. It doesn't need to be the size of a big coastal for jungles. Coastal's not even big anymore. It's like, I did the exact same thing where you can almost track what were some of my first carbon pythons, because they're the ones who were seven feet long, eating jumbo rats, and then you have my next couple phases because they just keep getting progressively smaller. And then I have like my adult females that are breeding are three, four feet eating medium to large rats, and that's it. So, and that's just the way it is. No more of those animals that are popping out, 40 egg clutches. Just be ticked with me ticked clutches. Yeah, my many me ticked clutches, yeah. Well, like my adult, my adult citrus tiger, female. I mean, I know they're smaller to begin with, but she's, I'd be lucky if she tops out at maybe five feet. And she just laid 17 eggs, you know what I mean? Good enough. I'd go with that with clips, though. She's the jungle. She's the jungle I have right now. I'm waiting to drop. And she's, like you said, five would be stretching it. She's in a four foot cage. I mean, I'm trying to do the masters. Five, maybe, five, maybe. She's not a fat guy either. You know, it's not huge. It doesn't need to be massive. I think that goes with the scrubs and the whitelits and the lai acid. People keep asking, "Oh, when you're bringing scrubs?" And it's like, "Man, unfortunately for you, I got my female really young. I'm growing her really slow and not huge." Yeah. But it's really slow. Like I don't, I'm not power fiend there. I'm in no rush. So, you know, message me in about three years, you know, so at least three years, you know. Right. Like I said, clips, so she hasn't laid yet, so I don't have the eggs. Her first clutch will be there. I'd say five foot tops. Tops. Am I seen with my white lips? She's my female. I didn't grow her crazy. And she's probably five to five and a half foot. And I really don't want her to be any bigger lengthwise. Right. Yeah. There is something to say for genetics of it. There is genetics involved. Sometimes, you know, big line of animals. Sometimes they're smaller ones. There is something for genetics of it. Oh, yeah. Right. I think like Brisbane coastals, they're going to get big. I think they're going to get big just because they're southern coastals and they get big. So I think we're going to with my Brisbane. No, and you're going to be looking at when you come over, they'll be as big as like, you know, your old. They're on my list, dude. I want Brisbane. I don't know why, but I don't know why I haven't had them yet. That's my next question is, I don't know why I haven't gotten them yet. But I might let Nick convince me when I call him for my yearly. I don't know why you guys, you purest guys confuse me, man, because here you've got a locality type animal. And I'm the only one with the localities of these carpet platelets. I don't get it. I was distracted by morts and combos. It's not me, but it's not her fault. It's not black and yellow, so that's part of my problem. I just got it, yeah, yeah. Well, speaking of black and yellow, so I got some questions as far as jungles go. Like, okay, so let's talk about your collection a little bit. You know, I mean, I know we hit on it a little bit. Like, what are you going on? What's the pride and joy of your collection as far as your jungles go? It's got to be the freaking VPI big female, but just because I've had her for, let's see. She's an 04, and I got her, like, 2006, so I've had her about 10, 11 years now. Yeah. So, you know, you have an animal that long and is still black and yellow, and she is as tame as, you know, any carpet you're going to find. So, it's hard to not include her even though her and whether you don't want to breathe, for whatever reason. But, yeah, I got them, and then I got a little bit of the Scattershot stuff. Like I said, I can't get enough of you all spark. I see you guys seeing spark in this being black, clean yellow. Do you know a little bit about the history as far as Scattershot? Like, what does that, where does that originate from? You don't have so much written down somewhere and all these stuff that goes in my snakes, and I don't even know. Like, I should know more. No Scattershot? Scattershot, I want to say, is wine bread because it's the son of Delia, I want to say. Mm-hmm. Oh, no, I can feel you. This is really this one like bad if I'm wrong on this. But, like I said, I have everything to be animals like that to find out somewhere, like, I'll have to go through it all. That's so big, yeah. Yeah, and it's so big, yeah. I just thought maybe you knew off the top of your head. No, like, I had so much side stuff going on and so much stuff going on this year, especially that it's like, I'm just a little bit scatterbrained. Like, some of these guys are, like, David and Josh up in Maine and, like, few other, like, Nick, you know, these guys know this stuff, man. Up top of their head, like, it's, you know, nothing. I have it all somewhere really long, but sometimes I get a little scatterbrained. Yeah, especially when you don't work with one line or something, when you got different stuff, it's really nice. Yeah, true. So when you go, do you look for, like, when you're putting your collection of jungles together, do you go more for lineage or a mix of both? Oh, you know, it depends. It's a little bit of mix. You know, of course I like some lineage and, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, you know, I want to get a carpet, or especially when people start talking about jungles and this, like, look, you're going to spend this much. You should know, you should be able to see pictures at least with parents, or not the grandparents. Look for a good color, all that. Um, what do I look for? It depends, man. Sometimes you see something and you're like, I got to have that. That thing is just insane. Like, Headhunter did that for me once, where I, I inquired about something, and he's like, oh, it's sold already. And I'm like, oh, okay. And he's like, yeah, then look at this. And I'm like, oh, shit. And now I've got Floki, who's a really nice animal from Abel of the Harlem, just really broad yellow banding. Um, but I don't know. I tend to go towards, I really like clean black with not a lot of tipping. Smart. Yeah, it seems smart. Like, I really like that. I don't know. As much as like, this time, I'm like, man, I don't need tipping in my stuff. I like low tipping, just clean yellow, clean black. And then somebody's like, post up their jungles with like, really crazy tipping. Like, I think Andrew's got one. I think Headhunter and it's, it's just going to be a stupid adult just because of how tipped out of this. Like, you can, I can just see it. I'm like, no, let's say we did a bolt. It's going to be insane. And, uh, two things. I'm kind of leaning towards trying to do. Um, Calypso came from Sean from Relate Python forum. And I don't know if you guys remember the seat, the jungle that was on the shirt from Relate Python shirts. Do you remember that? Yeah. Really crazy high yellow. That's a little mother. And then Floki has pretty good broad broad band going on. So I try and push something towards like really high yellow, like not 50/50, like higher percentage yellow bands. Good broad yellow bands. And then Spark, who's just cleaning deep black. I want to get one sooner to decide to breathe. Um, I want to be the sooner who is from Jason Bailey. Um, from his zebra to, uh, Brinkley. I believe. Oh, okay. Yeah. And actually according to Jason they were nice. I think, I think Tim and Chris said that soon as part of the best one from that class, she's just a really nice clean black. I want to kind of do some kind of breeding towards that. You know, really nice clean, low-tipped out dark black. Put them, you know. Yeah, I have. Oh, I also have those. So he changes everything. Right. Yeah, it does. To me, I think you're, I think you're right. I think the black, I do like tipped out stuff. But for me, like, I love my, I'm just drawn to it. Like that clean, clean velvet black that's just like, it's just, I think the contrast just makes it pop. You know, I mean, I don't know. That's kind of like that. There's something wrong. There's some tipped out stuff. Like I said, I think it's Andrew Parris. You've got one that the tip. You remember Jake Milbrett stuff? Like to me, that was like tipping wasn't on the stuff that he had. I mean, I would just be like, huh? Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's some tipped out stuff. But I mean, at the same time when I looked at that stuff and I'm like, man, that's absolutely gorgeous. But it's like, I don't know if I'd have a plate for it here. I mean, I bleached or whatever, black and yellow, black and yellow. You're winning either way. But at the same time when I have not as much tipping in most of my stuff, it's like, I wouldn't be doing a justice here. Right. Yeah, you'd be kind of, and then you're added it in. It's kind of like, yeah. I'd probably try to put it to my old school VPI stuff more. I mean, that's more the classic normal average hitting. Yeah. And I have a couple of things here. I mean, Valkyrie's got a little bit different. Look, she's half scattershot. She's scattershot. Well, not half scattershot. She's scattershot and Eve instead of Delia. So, I mean, I have some different stuff here that could go with it. But like I said, I tend to go towards the clean, less tipping stuff. That's just me. Mm. Gotcha. Very cool. Gotcha. So, here's a question that, you know, often gets asked when it comes to jungles. What about as far as kicking out, what are some tips that you could give as far as kicking one out of a clutch that, you know, I mean, let me first start by saying that it's impossible to know, and sometimes you get it wrong, you know what I mean? You think this one's going to be killer, and you sell that one, and the next thing you know, you're like, "Oh, god damn it." But what do you look for in your jungles if you were going to hold it back? What would be something that stands out to you? Oh, you know, I think if I'm looking at something, if I produce it, then I look at firstly the pattern to me, because maybe that's what I'm looking for, high yellow bands, or it depends, but, you know, if I produce it, if I go to a bleeder, and, you know, if I go to my curtain or if I go to headhunter, I don't necessarily look at all the babies, you know, I might ask them again, "What do you think is going to look good?" You know, because you really, you could think you have this baby that's going to turn out to be stunning, and it's not, or, you know, it's not what you think, or you have something that you look at it, and you're like, "Yeah, I don't know how that's going to really turn out. I don't know if it's going to be, you know, something crazy, but, you know, I'll buy it anyway." And then you grow it up, and it's like, "Holy shit, I hit the jackpot on this thing." But I feel like if you go to a breeder, and they've had that pairing, it's a known pairing that, you know, obviously has trophy animals, and you say, "You know, what do you think is the best baby here? You know, this is what I'm looking for." They know the animals, they know what comes from it, and maybe they can see that something that you don't, but I mean, if it's something I produce, it depends on what I was trying to do with that pairing, I guess. I mean, if you're producing black and yellow, just keep all the babies through some of them. I'm just kidding, because you can't do that, because then I can't, I can't get any babies from it. You know what I'm saying? But, you know, like I said, if I do this thing with Calypso, and eventually a flopie won't be get older, the first thing I'll do is look at the banding that I, you know, I'm shooting for the project. I'd like to get high yellow banding, you know, and then I would look for maybe the cleanliness that I like, you know, and I don't know if that, I see headhunters fall, like, it gets lighter every year, man, like that gray area where the yellows come in, getting lighter every year, in my eyes. I don't know if you guys have seen it, but like, you know, it's like, it's becoming a lighter gray color, and it's like, man, like, these things are coming up this year, that last year, I just really think they're going to be stunning. I think if you get an eye for that, I don't have it, I'm not going to get into some of these guys. I've been lucky. I'll be very honest, I've been pretty lucky. But if you get an eye, like, some of you guys, and you see the sort of color that it sort of takes to it, and, you know, like I said, man, I've watched headhunters and stuff, especially last year, some of you babies, the coloring, it's getting lighter, and I think that's going to be just better yellows, darker blacks. I think it's just getting better. Yeah, I think that's one of the things, I know this is, this is awful and a tangent a little bit, Mike, you'll, I mean, oh, and you'll probably, I'm thinking Mike Scattershot exotics. Oh, and you'll probably beat me up for this for saying this again and again and again. But that's the thing I miss about the forum is that you used to see it as an atom. You used to see that progression, you know what I'm saying? Like, you would see it, whereas on Facebook, it kind of gets, it kind of gets lost, you know. You don't have that saying like, oh, I remember when he's hatched down, oh, look, this is the second shed. Oh, look, you know, now it's a year old and you're like, holy shit, like, you can see the progression, you know. The one good thing about headhunter is that he sort of has that on his website, you know, so, you know, that's a cool thing so you can check it out there, but, you know, I don't know. This is something that I miss. The one thing that I noticed that I've been pretty lucky with and this just applies to carpets in general, is that I look for a hypo-like look. That's what I look for. And to me, that animal's going to have stunning colors as adults, especially in the neck area. I don't know if you guys have noticed the same thing, but like, look there and it has like this sort of like, it almost reminds me of like if you were looking at like an orange ghost ball python type of look, like it's in shed, but not in shed, but bright, like, yes. Come on. I'm echoing. I'm echoing. Owen's thoughts here. You were doing more terms. And then you turned left. It was like. I'm just trying to relate it. So people can understand I'm just trying to give a thank you, you just related jungles to ball python. Thanks for breaking my heart. Eric, Eric need to go sit in the corner for a good 10 minutes. Oh man, I'll tell you what, anyway you're killing me and you guys can have all the ugly carpets. So you and Bill Steigle have this trick. It's the only people who could be like, you know what that kind of looks like a ghost orange? What the hell you just made? So yeah. You know what, anyway, you know what has knocked me out with this year, specifically is the poison ivy clutch is totally opposite of that. So I had the whole bunch and I watched it all grow. And the ones that I thought were going to turn out dark are not as dark as the other ones that are like they're just getting black, they're literally turning black. So I don't really want to turn out because it's not a morph. What's that? I really want to say that that's a six snake one and it's weird it's poison ivy is pretty sick. And I, my first carpet was an iJ in 14 years ago, so I'm like that. It was an iJ. No shit. Oh shit. Yeah. Yeah, it was a pester iJ then he was, he was a mean little bugger. But I think, and it might have been my first two or three. I don't remember. I don't remember. Yeah. I got a couple iJs and then I got my VPI like 10, 11 years ago, right? They're old fours. Yeah. So they're 12 years old. So about 10 or 11 years ago I got them and I've never not had jungled in my collection since then. But yeah. My first probably two to three carpets were iJs from my local pet store and then a couple local people. So I, man, that's why I was joking, joke around the dark side is man, I used to use that Bane quote about being born in the dark side or whatever the hell it was. I grew up in the dark side, you guys, you guys don't know that. I know the iJs. I like iJs. I like old carpets, but, you know, it's much black and yellow, that's the problem. Yeah. Yeah. I will admit, I mean, like when you're looking, when you go to, you know, when you go to a reptile show or you go to somebody's election or whatever it would be, you know, I have people that come here, you know, I have a few really nice jungles that are up and coming. And sure enough, when people come and look at my stuff, that's the thing that people gravitate towards. You know, I can show them like, and I'll buy no zebrajack and they're like, yeah, that's cool. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because nobody cares about morphs. Well, you, you guys don't. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Yeah. And I went to a four year stop percentage. Also, it has to do with dangle something in front of you and you're like, oh, okay. So don't you know that I'm not a more person? No. No. No. So one of the funniest conversations you ever, you and I ever had is we were in your snake room and you're like, man, check out these iJs and I'm sitting there and I'm like, you like the glazed look that was on my face and you're like, it took you so long to realize that it was just there and you're like, and these are the diamonds. So like finally something I can get into and you're like, you better just throw me out of your room. So yeah, like, yeah, but it's weird though, man, because you have different people for different things, man, because you do. You know what, there's people freaking out over Boleen's online and it's like, they're awesome snakes. Don't get me wrong. I held one, but like, I'm in no, like, I don't feel the desire to really get a pair. Like, you know, they're incredible, but yeah, yeah, I'm with you there. I mean, to me, eventually there would be a snake that eventually I would want to keep. I think so for me, what I've learned about myself over the past year is that, you know, I've learned to curb the, I just listened to somebody be excited about what they're working with. So now I want to work, you know, like, it's very hard to do the show. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. And it's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. I mean, it's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. It's very hard to do it. I always heard Nick talk about these and he's always trying to get me to get them for the longest time. I kept putting it off and then finally, I don't know, there's just something cool about them. They're a big snake, so you get that sort of big snake kind of feel and it's just really cool. I'm so proud of mine. I'm so proud of mine. They're on extra-large guinea pigs right now. Oh my gosh, right dude. There was no breathing that half was happening, so I separated them and I started feeding them again. They're starting to go through shed cycles. They're starting to get bulk up and I'm like, "Yes, more guinea pigs." I may be going a little med scientist right now. Yeah, I'm going to hold for a little bit. You just send me a pair, all right? Just send them over. I need more seduce. Well, you can go look at Eric's and we trade for the northern jungle that he has. I like that there, by the way. That was beautiful. See? Yeah, yeah. People know they're here. Nobody, not too many people want them because they, you know, I guess they don't look like the ones that have been selected. Yeah. Really. But, you know, I'm ready for mine though. Well, let me tell you. Yeah, but now you can start selectively breeding them. Like, this is not, this is a basement. I'm telling you. Start building on. I'm telling you, they are, they're very cool. The problem is, is that just like Inland's, very hard to capture the true color of what they are. It's, it's, it's just difficult, you know? You did fine. I saw the textures. It's true, everybody else. Just don't worry about it. You breed them, send them to me. I'll take care of them. Don't worry. There you go. It's got like, I don't care if you can't capture the picture. I know what's going on here. Yeah. I know what's going on. 90, 90 percent of, you know, it's funny. There's, there's probably a very large percentage of people, you know, listening to this episode and be like, we're going to jungle. What the fuck are you talking about? The jungle goes in. Don't worry about it. There's a no other jungle. Yeah. Skip it. Don't worry about what it is. If you don't know what that is or what we're talking about, don't even worry about it right now. Yeah. Research. Yeah. Research. Good. I think, I think, I know you were saying, you know, about as far as carpets, the next one might be a coastal or, or brettles, that, is there a particular type that you're looking for or like, you have more about that out, yeah. Oh, yeah. No. Hold on. Hold on one second. Oh boy. Here we go. No. All right. You guys are going to sit here and talk about morph this, that, not a morph. But I'll tell you what, a hypo brettle, I don't care what you say. That snake is hard to beat. It is. I will completely agree. It's hard to keep a red light. It's a freaking red snake. Dude, of course it's hard to beat. It's a stupid looking, stupid. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, open the complete carpet python. If you do new carpet python owners, if you don't have that book, get that book. But open that. Look at the freaking hypo brettle. It's, yeah. I mean, but, you know what? And that's not to take away from the normal brettles, man, because they're nice too with the, with the black chon there. But yes, the hypos are gorgeous. But, um, yeah. Yeah. I was going to change the morphs. Why do you guys bring up the morphs? I know. Because, I mean, Eric, it's all good. You know, I like, I think the closest to those though. So like, I work with a force. I have price line brettles. I have the hypo. I have Harris line brettles. I have the stripes. So like, I see a difference. So like, if you, force are probably the closest to the hypo. Like, I really, really light look. The Harris line seems to have a lot of black in the tail part. So if you like that, it's, you know, that's kind of that look. Really dark, like brick and like, uh, really dark red. They're pretty. Yeah. One thing I don't like is the stripes. No, that's not the stripes. That's just me. I don't. I'm not a fan of them. Just me. The stripes are kind of like, they don't, they kind of have the color of like, uh, and this isn't to take away from like the price line or the, uh, laser client or anything. But they kind of don't have that same color of the other two. And like, especially with the stripes. I think maybe, maybe if, uh, when Nick probably produces like the hypo stripe. I even think that's going to be difficult to probably get that color. I'm sure he'll be able to do it, but I mean, that might be something. Uh, it would be interesting. Yeah, no doubt. Um, but, uh, I don't know. You don't know what I mean. I mean, I don't know. I think my goal like eventually is to, you know, at least for a little bit work with. Every carpet or subspecies of carpet and eventually try to produce all of them. Just, you know, as a, just for my own, like, Hey, I did that. And maybe eventually, like once I have the space, I wouldn't mind, you know, I'll always have fucking who knows how many jungles, but besides that, maybe just to have a pair of all the rest, you know what I mean. Yeah. You guys already do. You guys already probably do at least two. You guys already have a pair of all the rest. So, yeah, I know everything. Everything, but everything. You know, yeah. Oh, there it is. There it is. Honestly, I will. So I've actually been thinking that lately on my, you know, what would, what's the next step and it's going to be. You know, and I don't know when this, this house thing kind of dropped on us a little unexpectedly. We're hoping to do it next year, but, you know, one second or four day, I want to get the female of whatever I decide to play with that. And then probably, I don't know, I'll leave that up to, to wonder. I don't know what it's going to be. I need to make an idea too for my female eventually. So that's, I got that to consider. Oh, I have some nice, nice, nice selection of bread IJs next year, hopefully. I know you will. I know you will. Don't worry. We'll be, we'll be talking about Carpetfest. I got some questions about some other stuff you got some over. Okay. I will not have IJs ever. So, I'll tell you what's the sleeper carpet. And this is because, I don't know if I talked about this on the last week's show or not, but, um, my inlins are becoming adults. And I want them. Good Lord. Oh, I want the inlins. Yeah. I know, like, nobody kind of cares at this point. And I think it's because people haven't seen adults, you know. And, uh, wow, they're killer. Yeah, and I really like, I think. It's, it's, it's like, like, bread line. Like, it's honestly got, like, bread line. The best way I have for selling bread lines, I need to bring an adult with me. And that's when people start actually paying attention to a little red worm over here. I mean, that's just the way it goes. So, you know, I'm more, more, more genetic freaks in there and people start really liking it. Oh, yeah. And then I'm, that's not a joke either. And it's not a joke. It's not a shot. It's legit. Put more morphs in doing all of a sudden. You're like, oh, I got to have that. Of course you do. Oh, yeah. Yeah. If that's a sad. If the silver peppers were here, everybody would have them. No, you know, that is, to a certain extent, that is a, is, is true. That's kind of sad. You know, my thing with carpets is that I like them all. You know, I do like the crosses. I like the morphs. I like the locality. I like to, you know, just the subspecies. So, like, that's okay as long as you own that shit. Yeah. Yeah. As long as you own it. And you, and it's not just that. It's as long as you, you know, respect it. You know what I mean? It's like, Eric, everybody knows how much passion he has. But, you know, you're not new to the game. You're not like, hey, I'm just trying to make morphs. Even if you were just doing morphs, you still have respect for everything. You know, you're not going to breed whatever to whatever and sell it and probably lie about it and say, oh, this is a jag sib. It's actually a jungle. The stuff that people. Yeah. But that's the stuff that's happening. You know, there's the more people involved. That's the sad state of affairs. But, that's why you guys are leaving with good education. Yeah. You know, I've actually heard myself when it comes to the whole morph game. It's because, like, I take my time raising things up. And, you know, I could have been one of the guys at the forefront of some of certain. Some of certain projects and when it comes to more stuff. But, I don't know. Again, that's not what it's about for me personally. And, you know, I'm just really into Carp and Python as a group. And I just take my time with, even with my baby. You know what I mean? Like, I was talking to a guy about, um, he bought a baby from me. And at the same time, he got babies from somebody else. And he was, uh, wondering why they were, why it was smaller. And, you know, I blame some of that. I said, basically, I don't feed my babies through the, uh, through the cooldown. I don't. I don't eat them. They don't eat. Because, I'm not sure which one I'm selling and which one I'm not. So, I'm acclimating those babies to my environment. Like, I never understood the whole idea of, like, well, I don't acclimate babies. They don't get cold. Well, why not? In nature, they do. But, I mean, why all of a sudden, at two years old, do you shift? To me, like, get them into the groove early. At least, that's my opinion. You know? And that's what I do. So, my car goes to a lot of people who later. Something and, you know, a lot of people get something to pick up that car sheet. And they're, like, oh, and it's like, man, pick up a book. It would stop. And, oh, it says, it says 85 degrees. But it doesn't mean you need to put all this energy into keeping 85. You're just going to screw it up. The snake can get down to 82, man. They can get down at night. They can get down into 60s for a couple nights or something. It can routinely get down into 70s. You know? Right. Oh, yeah. Don't worry. It's like, I do the same thing, man. I let my snakes get cooler. And that's just because my room gets cooler. And everything does fine. As long as they have heat available or the right things available. What are these? Those fine. And I get that in that argument online once in a while when I'm bored at work or something about humidity. And you guys see it. It has to be 60% humidity. And it's like, no, it doesn't. And they're like, yes, it does. It's actually 60 to 80%. And I'm like, oh, it doesn't. And even you're going to mess stuff up more trying to get it. Just like that middle ground by spraying it. Right. Kind of wet. And then you're going to wonder why my snake has the respiratory infection. Or you can go around. Yeah. And then people are amazed. Like, when do you miss two carpets? I don't know. I don't remember the last time I missed a carpet in 14 years. I probably never. Or maybe more to 20s. You know what? I don't. Never have I missed a carpet. They don't need it. They don't need it. And maybe it does not really matter. Yeah. What a ball. What a couple of days. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah, I absolutely don't. As long as they're hydrated. The only thing I've noticed with, at least in Philly, that the water is hard. So I've noticed with IJs in particular, that when they get the calcium on them. Like, yeah, especially when they're going into a shed. But I stopped that problem just by giving them spring water. Yeah. I treat my water with a decory anyway. And when we get a house, I all completely plan on getting our own filter. And doing reverse osmosis water for everything. Yeah. Yeah. I give all mine sparkling water. So like the bubble sparkling water helps them a little bit of lemon wedges. You fancy. You're so high. I know, right? And I know, God damn. They can't even drink their water. That's true. That'd be fair. I have to have clean water because the one frog we have. So, you know, all the water. I'll be clean anyway. Yeah. For anybody who's into reptiles, if you ever want to know how clean water is, get a frog. If you live for a week, your water wasn't that clean. So, yeah. Like if you want to find out that your water is get a dumpy frog and see how long he led. Yeah. That's really true, actually. Yeah. Yeah. We got all the new, for all the new people who are getting into carpets. You just stop overthinking it. Stop. Humidity does not matter, really. And temperatures, man. Like people ask me questions all the time. And this serves you guys. And I just saw them. You know, I give mine the warm basking spot. And then they're like, "Oh, what's temperatures on the other side? I don't know where room temperature is. I don't really check it. It's not hot. It's cool." Yeah. And I know there's people that have controlled rooms and stuff. And they have success with that, too. But, you know, a lot of the people that ask questions, it's like, don't overthink it. Or you're going to overthink yourself into causing a problem that's not there. True. Yeah. So, I got some before you as far as temperatures go. That kind of surprised me. So, with my diamond pythons, I keep them outside of my room. And you're looking at probably an ambient temperature during the day and the 70s. And I provide them a basking spot. And I use a bolt. You know, like a heat bolt. And the way I have it set up is, like, there's a branch that's directly under the heat bolt that you're looking at, maybe 100 degrees, you know. And then, like, underneath that, they can go down underneath the branch. And it's probably maybe, you know, 80 degrees. If they go a little bit down, you know, towards the back of the cage, then they're probably looking at, you know, 80 degrees. And, sure enough, I've noticed with them in particular, is that, you know, you know, and it's on a timer, you know, right before the heat's going to kick on, they come out, they sit right underneath that at 100 degrees, right? This is basking at 100 degrees. And then they'll stay there for, like, maybe 40 minutes an hour. Then they kind of move down. Then they'll go and they just hide, you know, for a little while. And then later on, right before the, like, maybe an hour or two before the light's going to kick off, especially if they've eaten, they'll go right under that basking bolt again. And then that kicks off, and whatever my temperature of my house is at night, 60, 50, 70, you know what I mean? Sometimes during the winter, it could get down into maybe even, like, low 60s, like, and that's what they get, you know? Actually, no, well, I used to do that. I used to, they're in the winter for breeding for stuff. I used to turn the, like, the heat off. I did, like, a hole down, turn the heat and lights off, you know, X 'em out until the deepest, starkest part of the, you know, the winter. And during that time, they had no heat, no light at, you know, for 12 hours in the river. I was, like, more than that, probably. When they got a little cold, I used to do that. But, honestly, now they got more caging and racks and stuff that became a pain to, like, "Oh, okay, these adults over here are trying to breed, so I want to do that with." So now I just, I don't do anything. I literally let my room temp drop normal winter temps, and that's all I do anymore. Okay. So do you, like, heat spot at night time? Do you allow them to access? Yeah, I do, yeah. They do have access to heat 24 hours. I used to not, but now I do, and, you know, in some of the, the cages have, some of the cages with, like, heat panels that are on thermostat. I'll throw a night drop on there or something. But, you know, I have one day cage, which is going actually soon. I have some cages coming, but that has a, it's filled with two heat lamps on top. So that, you know, obviously doesn't get a night drop, but. Right. So do you shoot for, you don't shoot for a temperature then? You're just looking like I'm letting the room, whatever the room is, that's what it is. Yeah. Well, I mean, they, for, I mean, they get the heat spot. You know what I mean? I don't, I measure the heat load to the asking area to make sure that, you know, I don't want it to be 120 degrees or anything. So of course, I make sure that's okay. But after that, I'll check the temperatures on the cold side or something like that. Make sure the cage isn't, like, holding a ton of heat or something. But my room doesn't get down into, like, the 50s, really. Usually during the winter, 65 on there. So, you know, I'll just let the room drop. And then that will drop the cool side of the cage and then they'll still have access to asking. So. Yeah, I think, I think with, with the northern stuff, I think that that works well. I think with the southern carpets, that's where, that's where the, you have to get them colder, I think. Oh, no, yeah. No, absolutely. I'll agree with that. Yeah. No, you can't breathe in this way. No, you can't breathe in this way. No, you can't breathe in this way either. You got to, you got to almost, like, freeze the bread, like, it's ridiculous. Like, I think, it's hard to, it's hard to, it's hard to do. Every fiber in your brain goes, you know. No. That's too cold, you know, when you're just, like, stopping. I can't do it. You know, with the Calubrid guys, man. Just talk to them, man. They put their snakes in a basement at 40 degrees and leave them for the winter. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's not. If the snake can handle it, the snake can handle it. Again, that's, I don't, I don't keep meaning to go on this rant, but that's why I feel that, like, for me personally, in my experience, we're keeping a variety of different pythons. I've kept a lot of them. And to me, the most hearty, you know, no shed issues, no very rarely, you know, any kind of respiratory infections or anything like that. And I don't know if it has to do with me just being super excited about the group or whatever, but carpet pythons seem to be heartier than any other type of python that I've kept. I've had problem, more problems with ball pythons than I've ever had with carpet pythons. As far as shedding. There's, there's a, there's a hundred percent truth in that. Yeah. That's, that's, that's the first place they're freaking adaptable as hell, man. Yeah. But now there's one thing, there is one thing I think where you might see issues and that's, if you have an animal that's kept at, let's say ambient room temperature only or somewhat, it's more heated, over 82, really rooms at 82. So the cool set snakes getting is 82, and then that animal gets sold to someone like me that's going to put it through winter that's 65 degrees. That is where the problem is because it's become accustomed to this. I need a custom to that. And then all of a sudden you change the way you keep it, then you're going to have an issue. I think there was, I think we had Shane Whitaker on a long time ago and he's a vet. And he was talking about how like when people get new snakes, they very rarely does he see people talking about and asking how the person kept it. What they'll immediately do is put it into the way that they keep snakes. And that's where a lot of times people run into problems. There's no acclimation period. Like it doesn't, you know, you don't, you're just like turning the switch off. That's not good. Whereas like you should gradually bring it into, you keep it like the person kept it and then maybe, you know, gradually back off the temperatures at night until you get it into, you know, your keeping regimen. Right. It's probably the best advice, you know. Yeah. No, that's fine. If you're going to do it, definitely do it gradual. I mean, I just had, let's see, 14 years of having carpets. I just had my first visit to vet with a respiratory infection. Mm. Oh, yeah. And that was, and that was, and now that was mostly my fault because I missed the earliest, the earliest little minor signs that I would usually catch. Yeah. I've had a bit more where, you know, a snake gets a little, and you're like, "Oh shit, let's eat this bitch up real quick." Crank the heat up, yeah. And it's not a problem. And I, you know, and I saw it, I saw a couple slow tongue flicks and that's all it took me to not pay attention to. You know, I had a million things going on in my life and I just missed that. And next thing, you know, I opened the tub one day and, you know, this thing's got a freaking respiratory infection just enough where I'm like, "Ah, you know, I need to be antibiotics." So I went to the vet and I'm not a big fan of most of that, because some of them don't know what the hell they're talking about. But, you know, they're talking about that. It's up about 20 minutes into it. She didn't really like me too much, I don't think. When I said no offense, you know, I'm not going to do that, because you don't know what you're talking about. But, I mean, basically, yeah, it's pretty funny. Actually, she's a very nice lady and she had a decent reputation. But, you know, I tried to tell her, I said, "You know, that's my first comment." And I said, "I told her, it's a respiratory infection. You know, I need this, you know, I need antibiotics." And, you know, she's asked me all these questions. I really don't think she likes one. She's like, "What's the humidity?" And I'm like, "I don't know exactly." And it's going to tell her the humidity's not bad. Well, what do you mean you don't know? Like, well, I've been doing this a little while. I don't keep track of that. So, you know, she wanted me to crank it up to like 95 degrees and all that. I'm like, "I'm not putting this thing up to 95 degrees. That's a little higher than I want to put it." And I said, "Look." I said, "Well, you need to put a humidity gauge in there." I said, "Well, I've only raised it to temperature. I've already raised humidity by covering the ventilation holes. And it's humidity is what it needs to be. How do you know that?" Well, because I know my room. I know how these things work in my room. So, you know, she wasn't the most happy with me. I also wouldn't let her do blood work in an x-ray. Oh, yeah. The other thing was she lacked the value. Yeah, she was going into shed and she looked at the belly and had that little reddish tint they get. And she's like, "Oh, it could be septic." And I said, "She said it could be septic." And I said, "No, you need to relax with that. It's not septic at all. This makes sense to me." Jesus. You know what I mean? I'm like, "Stop. You know, I get it here, Vet." And I just give him beds. Give me the needles, please. So, she's like, "I'm going to give the antibiotics anyway." But, you know, you have to understand that you're kind of blinding me if you come back without doing blood work and all that. And I said, "That's fine." And this would get the most technical respiratory infection, I mean, to a T. So, I was like, "I won't be back. I just need the antibiotics to take that little extra bit out of it, please." So, it was fun. Yeah. Fortunately, we feel that it's very, very knowledgeable when it comes to reptiles. Yeah. That's weird. We're lucky there. I think so. He and I are actually, I brought a snake to him with a respiratory infection. And he and I got on this talking thing in his tick. He's actually been talking with a bunch of other vets, our vet down here, Dr. Adam Denish. And he's given me a nebulizer to start trying to, like, do nebulizing medications for reptiles. And he's going to talk into other vets and he's trying to figure out what's best inhaled antibiotic he would give. So, it's like, "All right, yeah, we can guinea pig this shit up." So, we're trying to work out the best way. We're trying to figure out the best kind of drugs. And then, if I get another R.I. we're going to give it a shot. And then I'll let everybody know how it goes. But for right now, he's got the nebulizer for me. And he's building a chamber. And then, he's trying to figure out all the drugs. And he's going to get back to me probably on Friday. So, yeah. Hopefully, if that goes well, I'll let everybody know. And they can start. They're always on the F-210 or whatever shit. The one that they were present for a little while. But I don't do that. No, no, no, no. It's not going to be F-10-nebulized. No. Yeah. It's not going to be it. We're using medication, not cleaner. Yeah. And to be fair, I mean, you think about it, respiratory infection. That could be a good avenue with some medication like that. You know, it could be a good way to treat it. So, well, you know, I lost a carpet python this year. And it turns out he had a massive infection in the lungs that turned out to be not only, you know, somewhat drug resistant, but, you know, also had a little bit of an Aspergillus fungus to it. So it's like, okay, how about we combat something that's sitting in the lungs? And that's, of course, what started us on our conversation of stop with the fricking needles. Give me something that can get right into the fricking airway. Like, give me something that goes right into his lungs. So, that's what we're looking at. And to be honest with you, if I had to spend 50 bucks to get a nebulizer and a, you know, $20 sweater box with a hole drilled in it and call it a fricking day, done. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. All good. I found this year was, I think that the one carpet group that I find that is the most sensitive is the IJs. And this is the year that I did have. I think that stress is what induces respiratory infection a lot of pain. In particular, in particular animals, and breeding is very stressful. So, you know, that's exactly what it did. It wasn't an IJ-ing jungle, but it was the stress of breeding. It wasn't clip, so it was actually sooner. And, you know, my male spark was all about her a few times. And then, you know, like I said, the little bit of cooler temperature is in that stress. You know, it just doesn't take much. No. Yeah. Absolutely. Especially, I had the, what, especially did it, I think, for me. And again, this is my fault. But I had poison ivy that I was trying to breed with. I picked up that tiger IJ from Mike Curtin, and it's humongous. He's a mad man. Oh, my God. Yeah. Good God. That thing is huge. Mike, what are you doing, dude? But, anyway. He puts my fossils the same. It's huge. Oh, my God. This thing has to be like 3,000 grams. I'm like, oh, man. But, anyway, I put him in with her. And just to give you an idea, she's probably 1,500, so he's double the size of her. And I think it's just, I think it's just stressed around. It was like, they bred. They lost. Everything was good. But, I think that was just too much. So, no worries. And it made me rethink my thoughts, especially with breeding carpets and what enclosure size should be. I think that, especially with breeding, you have to be able to have a big enough enclosure to where that animal can kind of get away. And you still be able to access things like heat, and it's needed, and hide if needed, and all that kind of stuff, to where. Sometimes, for room purposes, I guess, or whatever, I may have skimped on space or stuff like that. But, well, we fix soon enough. But, you live and learn, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah, the biggest thing you've got to do in this hobby, man, learn. So, what is learn from your mistakes? We all make them, you know, just learn from them. Yeah, it's the shame that, I don't know what you guys think, but it's the shame that, like, people don't post their mistakes as much as they post their successes. So, for, like, a new person getting into the hobby, they kind of look at it, and they think, you know, and they see, you know, guys like us, or people that are breeding, or whatever, they're like, "Oh, these guys never have any problems, never have any issues, everything just as smooth as can be." That's really not the case at all, you know? In his 15 years, man, I've had plenty of issues. And, you know, sometimes you don't want to talk about it because it is somewhat embarrassing, like, a few people know that the ruffies aren't here. They're not with me. And a few people know the reasons behind that. One of which is because Vulcan, my male, has had a tooth abscess. He had it in the front of his mouth. And I was a dumb shit, and I launched it myself, which led to a outstanding infection in his mouth. So, my vet is an hour away from me, because I don't trust any other vet, but my vet. So, my friend Andrew lives literally 10 minutes away from the vet, and has taken care of the ruffies before, I want to, during the whole move thing. So, both ruff scales are with him because Vulcan is bouncing back and forth from the vet because of what's going on in his mouth. He is being treated, he is getting better. But it's like, oh, when you idiot, you launched an infected thing and you thought that it was just going to be fine. So, it's like, that's just how it goes. Now, there's nothing wrong with the girl, she's just there because please feed her. So, good interview with everything, and I wanted to get bigger. So, it is one of those things where I've learned from that mistake, where it's like, maybe there is a lot of things that I can and can't do. The other thing that happened to me this year as far as we're talking mistakes, is I went away for a weekend and I had a friend come up who was a vet tech, and I had him give some injections to a certain number of my pythons who were having, like those winter wheezes and stuff like that, just a shot of atrial. I thought because he was a vet tech, he could handle it. I could show you three of my pythons that now have probably permanent scale damage because the injections weren't given the proper way, and they were given too low on the side. One of them would be my albinos. One of them would be my albinos. So, it's like, shit happens. So, I'm learning. Everybody learns. Shit happens. You're going to have mistakes. You're going to have shit that's not even your fault. It's just going to go wrong. The more animals you have, the more that's going to be out of your control, and animals going to randomly get sick and pass away or something. At the end of the day, you just got to get back to the basics. And when that bad does happen, because I've seen you call people lately that bad things happen, and man, I know the feeling where it's like, you just want to fucking sell everything. You just like, man, it sucks it out of you for a little bit, but just remember why you do this. Remember why you enjoy it. Don't get out of it. Just take a step back. Take a breather. You know, it happens to all of us. I mean, I lost to Kwanah, that really nice, Nick Mutt, and IJ during laying eggs last year. So, the one female IJ I'm keeping is her for that reason, you know. And there's nothing I could do about it. She, whoever, she, her had like an egg that was like calcified or something and never came out and binded her up and shit went south and it happened, you know. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. I will sure to think about this community as, man, I had like six people like on the phone with me, like, hey, hit me up, give me advice, just little non-invasive little ideas, like, try this, try that. And at the end of the day, none of it worked out, sucks, but, you know, there's a lot of good people out there that you can reach out to. Definitely. Yeah. That's, that's true. You're absolutely right about the community. And I'm curious, you still, what's your thoughts wrong currently on what's going on with the carpets community? Do you think good, bad, different? We need to go back to forums. Y'all need to go there a few things in the forums. That's all. See, now, I will admit, I'm like, I have not been in the forums for very long time. You challenged Eric to something. And of course, Eric challenges Owen because I don't know why. So I go on some rally applies on. I throw up some pictures of my Super Caramels. Freaking reptile report runs with the Super Caramels. And all of a sudden, my Facebook page, Rogue, blows up with, like, 200 new likes because Rogue reptile is linked. Yeah, you're welcome. Shut up. All right. So it was like, it was one of those moments where I'm sitting there and I'm like, God damn it, Eric. Like, I don't want to admit things to you, but that was good. So I did do, I did the same thing with Bane, man. I shared this picture of Bane that everybody loved all over the place. And Freaking, I put it in the forums and reptile report shared it. And then someone tagged me in a click and they're like, I don't even know, like, a couple thousand likes and like, all these shares, all these comments. All these comments. And it was funny because you'll appreciate this. All these people are like, Oh my God, I want one of these. And I'm like, no, you don't. No, you don't. You do. It looks cool. But then it's going to bite you the same. Yeah. So, yeah, if you're out there and you want to try to drum up business or, you know, so a little bit of, you know, some anticipation for your future pairing. Or if you want to show off your animals, or if you're one of those people that's like, man, if I could get in the reptile report, I'd be so happy. Go to the forums and post up. Apparently, that's where they look. So good. It's funny. It's like this especially for these new people in the carpets. You have this old school guys that really aren't even, some of them aren't really in it anymore. Some of the names. And then you have like these mid-school guys that have been around for a long time, and they're still around. And then you got guys like us that have been doing this for a while and stuff. But all that information, most of that information from the guys before us, that's what us. It's all up there in the forum and everything you ever wanted to know is right there. Even lineage and stuff. I've gotten so worried about the forum not being there that I actually have this app called Evernote. And whenever I see a particular pairing, a person post up a cool looking animal or whatever, my phone, I'm able to save the picture and I shave it into a file. You have these different notebooks on this app and I have a carpet more for jungle carpet or whatever the subspecies is or breeding talk or whatever. Anything that pops up that at some point later down the line somebody might say, I wish we had pictures of that whatever from such and such pairing. Sometimes on the forum, what I've noticed is when you go back and you look, people uploaded those pictures through photo bucket or something like that and the link is not there anymore. The information is there and the picture isn't there. I've just been trying to keep track of that. It's a labor of love. I'm into carpets doing that. I've amassed this crazy, if people went through it, I'll have to show it to you when we're at carpet fest. It's just crazy information about all these different carpets and hobby and people and this and that, all this different stuff. You're right, it's right there. If I see information on a jungle, so-and-so, whatever name, jungle, oh man, so-and-so just posted the information on that animal. The previous lineage that animal, I try to save that into my phone. I just need to find a better place to put all that together. I do the same thing, especially jungles. I don't know. Hopefully, I noticed when I was talking with Dave Kelly a while back and this whole lineage thing started on the kick. I remember I would ask him, blah, blah, blah. Do you have this information? He would just be like, "Ooh, there you go." "Holy shit, I was just doing fine this stuff." Sure enough, he was the same kind of idea where he would just study in the forums. Let me just learn this stuff from being on there and really soak it in that information. I don't know. I hope that if, I mean, I guess my thinking is eventually there's going to come something else that's going to come along. I'm surprised Instagram hasn't changed from Facebook to that, but eventually I think there's going to be another thing that comes along that replaces it. My fear is that it will go back to a forum like, "Shut up." And then all that information that was from this year to that year will be, it would just be like this big, empty void of info. It's out there on Facebook somewhere or whatever. Wherever it's at. That's why you hope the people like you or the people that at least like their certain thing, whether it be jungles, IJs, whatever, have gathered that themselves in their own whatever app or phone or computer and that information so it at least survives. I don't know. I wish that if they could just get a tap talk or whatever it's called, that could somehow just get linked up. That's going to be my mission when I'm at Southern Carp Assassin. I'm talking with Sean and I'm going to find out what we can do to make that easier. At the end of the day, it's really the people's mindset that that type of social interaction is dead. Whenever I talk to people about it, they just say it's the same thing. Dude, it's dead. It's only dead because people don't go there. That's it. It's not dead because of anything else other than people don't go there. If people went there and posted there, it wouldn't be dead. We did pretty good for the last couple weeks getting some more people involved. Hopefully, they continue to go back. It's funny because I haven't been on the forums in a while. I go there and it's like you have 15 new private messages and I'm like, "Shit." I go through them all and half of them are like, "Hey, I'm considering buying a white lip." I'm like, "Oh, no, I really hope this person didn't do that." There's all this other stuff and a few of them are, I think there was one from Eric, from way back when, and I'm like, "Whoa, well, I don't know if we ever do a podcast." "Yeah, would you like to do a podcast?" "Yeah, it's like, you know, that's how that shit happened." "Yeah." "Oh, shit, funny." "I'm looking for a co-host. I'll do it. You fool-o'ing." "Yeah." "Oh, you enjoyed every minute of it. Who are you kidding?" "Yep, yep." "I don't know what else we have. Maybe when you want to hit on the outro questions, I don't know if there's anything else." "I mean, I know we're running close on time and such, but…" "We keep running right up to the end recently. We don't even kind of talk about our stuff. But anyway, Scott, if you could keep any reptile with that enemy, any limitations, what would it be and why?" "I don't know, man. I saw a question. I was thinking about it." "I don't know if I had to say anything right now, just off the top. I wouldn't mind a crock monitor. And I'm just thinking something." "Right. What does the matter with you?" "Well, now, hold on. Hear me out. I'm just purely saying something that probably will never own." "I'm going to rat extreme. You know what I mean? I'm going to rat extreme. Something with the limitations, money and the fact that I should have its own house and all that." "Yeah, I'm just trying to go stream with it." "Jesus." "All right. I really wanted to take a snake, but I couldn't figure out any that I wanted to say and think of him." "Yeah." "All right. If you could go herping anywhere in the world, where would it be and what would you be hoping to see?" "Oh, it's got to be fricking Australia or Papua New Guinea, that whole area, Indonesia, then everything." "Carpets." "Nice." "Wait, let's, you know what I mean? Everything. That old stuff that we're all into." "Nice. All right. And if somebody wanted to get in touch with you to inquire about some of the babies you're producing, how would they do that?" "Oh, they're already trying to bother me for it, but uh, just hit me up on Facebook, man. I don't have a fancy business page like a lot of these guys right now or anything. I just hit me up on Facebook." "You know, I'm usually in all the carpet python groups. You can find me there." "You know, I don't mind adding people to my friends list or shoot me a message, whatever." "Or they can bug you a carpet fast." "Yeah, some of them are already planning on it, but it doesn't matter how much alcohol might just ain't leaving." "Damn it. All right. Get in line." "How many clutches do you think you'll have this year?" "Just one. I'm just waiting on clips, so that was the only one." "I didn't pay money on Jay because, you know, whatever. Like I said, I'm shipping most of them out." "And then, uh, soon I got her eye and didn't go. She didn't want to spark this year, I guess. I don't know, but just one." "I got you. Okay. Very cool." "That's, and that's a lot of black and yellow, so don't expect me to rush to put them up for sale." "Yeah. Wait, I know. I already talked to you about them. It might be like, it might be like a year before I try." "Yeah. I don't know. We'll see. But, you know, there's a list of people already contacting me. Eric's one of them." "Yeah." "And I said, I'm not in any rush." "Very cool." "I can totally appreciate that, man. I can totally appreciate that." "That's all you do, Eric." "Because they might not be ready for a year, and I'm like, so right when Eric's would be ready, so it's perfect." "That's when you'll finally let some of his go is a year, so the two of you can like have a secret meeting where you exchange carpets in the middle of a parking garage in the dead of night." "So, I know you're getting rid of them. Yeah." "I have fifty-five baby carpets from last year just growing up, probably maybe twenty from the previous year." "Just kind of just waiting in the way." "I have two from last year and two from 2013. Everything else is gone." "That's crazy, dude. I'll never have that. That's too much for me." "Yeah, so, no, I mean, I guess my feeling is that one of my goals was to try to be able to like learn, you know, keying my eye in, I guess, to what is going to turn into what. I think the only way you can do that really is to hold back." "You know, watch them grow up." "Hey, someone's got to do it." "And to be fair, like, I'm not crazy to like have and produce this shit ton of animals at this point. I've got a couple of the species that I've wanted to have. They're fun to hang out with, like carpets." "Yeah, I want to expand on that a little bit, but I'm kind of enjoying what I have and at the same time, I'm actually enjoying watching my fiancee kind of grow her passion for her side of things." "I kind of try to support that a little bit, too." "Right." "Very cool." "Yeah, awful fun. Lots of fun." "Well, I don't know if there's anything else you want to hit on, but before we get cut off, I appreciate you coming on and hanging out with us. It's always cool." "Yeah, it's always good talking to you guys. Always fun." "And we'll see you at carpets best." "Yeah, yeah. I'll be there." "I got your moonshot for you, man. It's right." "Be with it." "Dude, I told you, man. I want a couple of... I want..." "No, I got a couple for you, yeah. I got you." "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's my only good idea." "Alright, man. That shit's delicious. I'm bringing this thing. I'm trying to bring the same stuff we brought last year." "See? And that's the thing that's got brought last year and brought, like, sweet tea." "And the other one said adult sweet tea." "And I'm like, what's in the adult sweet tea?" "He's like moonshot." "I'm like, oh my gosh. I really don't know if children get dis-confused." "So, yeah." "Right bigger letters." "So, yeah." "All over the place." "I think this will be a good time." "This will be a good time. We got Nick coming out. Nick's coming out." "Yep." "Alright, really awesome." "Yeah." "Nick will be coming. I know, uh, Kesha's coming, uh, which is awesome." "I'm hurting something." "I'm sure Baelyn will be there. My curtain will be there." "Baelyn might not?" "Maybe not." "Because it's his son's birthday." "Ah, well, so I've been back." "I've been telling Baelyn to convince Jack, Jack, his son, to have his birthday come." "He's coming on Sunday." "Or to come." "So, I don't know if that would be good." "He's gonna get it back." "Yeah, I'm working on it." "Yeah, I mean, you can get it back." "I'd have to leave his kid on his birthday." "Exactly. I did have a long conversation with Howard yesterday about what he's coming and what he's bringing. He's coming, uh, with a bushel of Maryland crabs." "Oh, hell yeah, that's classic, man. That's classic." "Oh, yeah, that's classic." "Oh, yeah, it has to." "So, what I'm already doing with the food already is looking like a good time." "So, Carpetfest, of course, Northeast Carpetfest, is May 21st in Birdsboro, Pennsylvania. From 3 p.m. to when I kick everybody out of my house." "Yeah." "And it is the fifth annual Carpetfest." "That's right." "Stating for t-shirts and other announcements." "If you have any questions, you can private message myself or Eric." "If you've been invited, a lot of information is on the invite page on Facebook, along with hotels and all that fun stuff." "My place is booked, so no one is allowed to stay in my place unless you've already talked to me about it." "I think somebody offered to put a tent in the yard, and that's fine. Zero will be here on Sunday." "And I will let him loose in the yard, and I can't help you from that." "Here's an important question. Here's an important question. Is Jim from Morgantown going to be there?" "I cannot confirm nor deny the presence of Jim." "Here's the thing, all right?" "Here's the thing. Hold on. I don't know if you caught this on the last episode, but there's a chance that my dad might come." "Oh, shit. If you have money to ask that, what I thought we could do is that we could do some kind of video where it's me and Owen talking, and then take us out and put my dad and Jim in there and have him have the same conversation." "I guarantee you. It's going to be like looking into the future." "Oh, yeah. I can't confirm nor deny, but it's a pretty good idea that he will." "He does this the reason. I'm not sure if I'm coming or not, yet he'll clear his entire calendar and he'll show up at like four. So, yeah, it's a pretty clear that he'll show up." "Let me tell you something. Down the east coast, if you're anywhere in the northeast, and you're even considering it, come. It's a good time. Everybody there is awesome food, drinking, or just having a great time. And animals are usually around, really awesome animals usually." "I'll let the olive python come out for a cruise. You guys can play with them." "So, of course." "I know Buddy's coming, right? Buddy, if you send me, I think you bring us in. So, usually come. I know what's his name. Shit. I can't figure this name. Damn, that's all total points." "We suck at this. Build coming again." "Build a good time." "Bub dark side, dark side. Is he coming? Yeah, he's coming." "Hell yeah." "That's coming." "We don't kick it." "Exactly." "One coming, so we're going to have a lot of it. Basically, right now, everybody who's confirmed with me, we're looking at about 43 people at my house at Carpetfest." "We will show them when they're at east as the original chapter." "Exactly." "This is the original one, man. It's going to be awesome." "Yeah." "So, it's going to be a blast and then we're also going to get people information about t-shirts, about the auction. All that stuff is coming soon." "But the other Carpetfest, real quick, I don't want to get cut off." "On your 30th?" "On your 30th?" "April, you've already ruined it." "Yeah." "We have the southern quiet, you. We have the southern Carpetfest that is April 30th from 4 p.m. to 1 a.m. in Arlington, Texas. This is the second annual Southern Carpetfest that will be held at Bill Stiegel's house." "Good people, good times. Come meet folks. I'll be shipping out my hobbit and he's going to be there to shake hands." "It's like a political thing like I have to send you on campaign." "I'm not as scary as the big mean ogre." "I am the scary one. There's the next one is in South West Carpet." "Smack across the face, yeah." "Oh, and it scares me." "What?" "I get that message on us once a month." "Oh, it's scary." "Do you think it is Owen? Do you think Owen is going to sell some caramel?" "I don't know. I can't talk to him. He's scary." "That's hilarious." "I love it because I don't get bothered." "Then stuff doesn't sell, though. But anyway, South West Carpetfest, that is Friday, May 20th at noon to late into the night." "That's living legless reptiles." "Yes." "They're looking like it's going to be barbecue, etc. playing with reptiles, meet up again." "The 21st are going to go herping on a hiking trip." "Please RSVV with Travis for the address and who's coming. They want to get a nice headcount." "They're also going to be looking for hotels that will be available and they will hope to have an auction to raise support for USR." "If you want to donate to that, get in touch with Travis and he'll walk you through that stuff again." "Yeah, and then we're back to the original and the best Carpetfest." "We're on our fifth annual Carpetfest. I mean, surely falls." "You know, it's funny. I listened to the, we called it the complete Carpet python tour where we had bed on one week, bed on the neck." "And just all back to back, all three. And that was the first year, so this was 2011. That was the first year that we did Carpetfest and, you know, we were talking about it. It's so weird that here we are, you know, five years later and, you know, we're still doing it. So I think it's pretty awesome. The one thing I will say, it'll be my closing thing as far as Carpetfest goes. The whole idea is this is a bunch of snake nerds hanging out and eating and drinking and having a good time. I mean, one of the cool things for me personally that drew me to Carpetfest and not, you know, ball pythons or something else was, in fact, the community. And in a certain way, we're trying to preserve that. So if you're interested in Carpetfest at all, I mean, if you have any, like, desire to get into them or you're curious about them. Goddammit, man, this is like, you'll spend $500 to $1,000, $5,000 on a snake spending on a plane ticket. You know what I mean? You're going to have a time that, you know, life is short, man. So here's your opportunity to hang out with these people and talk to them. One on one, drink a beer with, you know, guys like Nick. I mean, like, he's the guy that wrote the book and you can sit down and, as we all know, Nick loves him, you know. So he's not going to be like, he's not going to talk to you about something. And, you know, and then some of the guys that maybe aren't on the forum, like, I don't remember last year, talking to Matt Moyle, and like, he's talking about, like, when Carpet's first came into the country. Yeah. Like, the experiences with that stuff that you can't necessarily say on a public forum or maybe even on a radio show, but you get that information. It's priceless, you know, and can you develop relationships with people? And it's really, that's what it's about. So, I don't know, I'm off my soapbox. Do it. Well, no, you do it because you never know. And it's also setting up, you also get close to these people get to know more people. And that opens up opportunities in the reptile industry that you didn't know you had. So, you know, I think it was like, I think it was like the second Carpetfest I was talking to you, Scott, and you're like, I know this guy who's up with Kipsey, who had these, like, three giant gold phase wait lives for this much. I was like, really? And I ended up driving all the way up to New York and buying those animals where if I hadn't come to Carpetfest or if Carpetfest hadn't been a thing, I totally would have missed those animals because those, the Kipsey was in a show I regularly went to because I'm all the way down here. So, it just is something that happens. So, definitely, if you can make it, please come. We would love to have you. Just give it in contact with myself or Eric. Let us know how many people are coming with you, what you intend to bring, and if you need any, and what you need to do to cook or prepare what you're going to bring. That's the only rules. You have to bring something to eat or drink, and it has to be ready to serve. You have to get it ready to serve at Carpetfest. You can't just bring, like, two pounds of raw hamburger and call it a day. If you bring hamburger, guess who's standing in front of my grill. So, there you go. All right. On that note, close this out. Eric, what's going on with you and your schmingies? For me, ebmorrelia.com, continually updating the site. Like I said, last week, I'm trying to make it, you know, in the vein of AC Reptiles where, you know, some breeding info, some keeping info, and updates on my collection. So, if you got a chance, go over, check it out, ebmorrelia.com. You can follow me on Facebook. You can follow me on Twitter, and I'm on Instagram, all that stuff, all under ebmorrelia. If you want to get in touch with me, my e-mail is Eric@ebmorrelia.com. As far as Morrelia Plights on Radio, or websites Morrelia Plights on Radio.com, e-mail is info@morreliaplightsonradio.com. I got some news that said that, for some reason, you couldn't download the show on certain apps or something like that. I'm looking into that. I have no idea what that's about. I know you can get it on iTunes. I know you can go to Blog Talk, and I know you can go to MorreliaPlights on Radio.com, and there's a player right there. I don't have any problems, but I don't know. Some people are having issues. And what else? Next week, we're going to be talking to Condros and Jungle Carpets with David from Condro Jungle. It was an awesome, awesome episode for sure history of Jungle Carpets. Who knows this stuff? Who knows this stuff? Yeah. I'm looking forward to talking with them about that. All right. For me, you guys can go to rogue-reptiles.com. Find out all the latest stuff that's going on in Rogue. We have the full up-to-date breeding diary for the 2016 season. If you're interested in any of those animals coming out of those clutches, you can get put on our way list. Just drop us an email. Also, we have the animals that are for sale listed on our for sale page. You can go over there and check that out and drop us an email there as well. If it's not on that page, it's not for sale. Stop asking. I will not tell a rough-scale pipe. So, there's that. You can also go on to facebook.com and look up rogue-reptiles. Give us a like. A lot of times, the animals do become available for sale. They go on the Facebook page before they go on to places like King Snake and the website. Upcoming shows. I don't really have any. So, we're going to have to wait for that one. And that is all I got. So, what we will say is thanks again, Scott, for hanging out with us and talking. And sure thing. And what we will say is good night, everybody. We're going to catch everybody here next week for some more Maralea Python radio. Good night. [BLANK_AUDIO]