Morelia Python Radio
Australian Venomous Snakes with Scott Eipper
Episode #
We are joined again by Scott Eipper to talk about the different aspects of Australian venomous snakes, both in the wild and in captivity.
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Hey Chad Brown here, you may remember me as a linebacker in NFL, where as a reptile breeder and their owner of Projak. I've been hurtin' since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry, educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breeding and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Markle and I created the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site bringing you the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news. Follow us on links so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists, just like you. The reptile report offers powerful branding and marketing exposure for your business and the best part is it's free. 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Shipreptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use shipereptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rate. The materials needed to ship your reptile successfully, live customer support, and our live on time arrival insurance program. We've got you covered. Visit the reptilereport.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace, find that perfect pet or breeder, then visit ship We are your one-stop shop for everything reptile related. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Welcome to Moralia Island Radio with your host, Eric Berg, and Owen McIntyre. Hey, hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Moralia Python Radio. Tonight, we're doing a little Moralia, et cetera, a first ever for us here at NPR. We're doing an Australian venomous snake episode. This is going to be interesting. I will say from the gate that I am not really that knowledgeable when it comes to venomous snakes. I have a little bit of experience from when I was younger. My father kept a lot of venomous snakes, but as far as keeping them and all that comes with keeping venomous animals, I am not the most experienced. I'm looking forward to learning a little bit tonight. I would say that everybody knows we have Scott Iper. Have we been just pronouncing this? Anyway, we're not going to be talking about is Python's this time. We're going to be talking about his venomous collection, and I know he does a lot of field work and such, and field herping. He also wrote a book, and the book is called Australian Alapids. A guide to Australian snakes and captivity, Alapids and colubrids. It should be cool to hear about some of these species and the protocols and all the different things you have to think about when you're going to work with venomous. If you should decide to go down that route. Yeah, it's one of the things that I'm on the same boat you have, I have some experience with venomous, but that's just going from my head friends who had venomous and my job with the zoo, we had two venomous snakes, and then we had some heal monsters, and that was pretty much my introduction to venomous. I guess we'll get the disclaimer out of the way now, and this is for anybody who's listening before you run out and purchase a venomous snake from somebody online or at a show, please do your homework. It takes a lot of experience and a lot of time to work with venomous snakes, and we just don't want anybody to go get themselves dead because they were listening to the show. Yeah, this is always one of those topics where you don't want to necessarily promote, basically everybody should not own venomous snakes. I see venomous just like I see crocodilians. There are some people who should own them, and there are some people who say, "What the girl are you doing with this thing?" If you're some guy who's got this great setup in Florida, and you could put an outdoor pond and put a gator outside, we're totally happy. Cool. If you're some guy in a row home in Philadelphia, you do not need that. I kind of see the same way with venomous, and also I kind of see venomous as I almost wanted to be like falconry, where you have to go and apprentice with falconry in order to get a falconry license to go get a bird. I would love it if you had to go work with somebody who had venomous in order to get the license to get the venomous. Unfortunately, we know that's not the case where if I so chose, I could have a black mamba delivered to my house tomorrow. That definitely is something that we should police ourselves when it comes to that stuff. I'm curious to hear the laws in Australia, and what are the differences between us and the states. I know Pennsylvania is really kind of liberal when I call it. Yeah. No hedgehog. Everything. What a hedgehog. You have a hedgehog. Take in your door and take it away. That's pretty funny. The walk pass, they will walk past your king cobra to take the hedgehog. Or your Siberian tiger, you know. Yeah, Nile crocodile. Yeah. Jesus Christ. That's okay. Anyhow, yeah, we're just waiting a couple minutes for Scott to call in, and we'll get it started, but before we do, let's, you know, well, let's get the carpet fest off out of the way. Yeah. Yeah. Carpet fest. We'll start with the one that's coming up next is April 30th, and that's the southern carpet fest. Yeah. And that's going to be hosted by our good friend Bill Stiegel from Phoenix Reptiles. And that's going to be an awesome time. So if you're down there in the south or, you know, jump on a plane and head on down. I know that they're really trying to get a head count. So if you are going, you know, contact Evan Browder, or you can contact Bill and just let them know that you're going to be headed down. That way they know what to do with food. He was telling me tonight that they're having some kind of barbecue type of thing where the guys showing up with a smoker and I'm telling you man, yeah, it's going to be nuts. So yeah. And, you know, and I'm like, I have a charcoal grill. It's like Carol and Jesus Christ Bill showing us up on our own event. Yeah. Right. So, yeah, we're going to have to, we're going to have to break out something. I'll get that up. I'm going to get the moon, I'm going to get a moon bounce castle. That'll be highlighted the whole thing. Yeah. May 20th is going to be the Southwest Carpet Fest. If you want to get, find out more details about the Southwest Carpet Fest, then contact either, I guess, April or Torel from designer exotics. Those guys out there are running it and again, if you're out there on the West Coast, here's your opportunity to go and hang out with fellow reptile nerds and, you know, just basically have a snake nerd barbecue is what I call it. And then, of course, there's the North East, the original, yes, save the best for last type of thing. May 21st is going to be on, we're going to have the t-shirts designed at some point. May 21st in Birdsboro, Pennsylvania, at my house. So if you are coming, drop me a PM, let me know what you're going to bring. I'll probably be bugging everybody's ear as we get closer and we'll see how it goes there. And also, we'll probably start getting stuff ready for the auction and we'll get that moving in the right direction. And I found out that, actually, that day is the next Oaks reptile show. So I started inviting people as I was at Oaks, and I'm like, "Hey, once you're done with the show, if you want to pop by in my place, it's right down the road." So that turns out, yeah, and if I have to, I can run out and get rats early in the morning. So, yeah, just run down the road, grab the stuff, come back, yeah, it's perfect. We won't even know you're going. So we definitely have that. No, you won't because you're just losing my house, cleaning my snakes, you know. So yeah, so lots of different events going on. You know, I think that's one of the things I love about the carpet community in general is just the fact that, you know, we are a community and we try to get together and hang out and have a good old time. Maybe one of these years we're going to have a, what would it be, a USA carpet fest? Oh, I'm going to call it a carpet coalition. And what I'll say is that the carpet coalition is everybody needs to come to Tinley in October. And where your various carpet fest t-shirts or melee flight on radio t-shirts on the Saturday. Yeah. Okay. So just everybody who is hearing my voice now, make your way to Tinley in October where your carpet fest or melee flight on radio t-shirts and we'll have a fricking ball. And Eric will buy all the drinks. For me and you. For me and you. Not for you people. But for me and Andy, I'll get you guys. So. That would be, I think, the best place to do it. It would be awesome that way. So. Yeah. I'm pretty pumped. We booked a hotel for Tinley Park. Already. Yeah. For October. We've got that kids done early. Yeah. We're ready to rock. You know. Now we just need to get the table and, you know, we'll be good. So. Good times for sure. Tinley Park was this past weekend, was the March version, seemed like everybody had a good time. I didn't really see a whole lot of pics or stuff on Facebook, but it really wasn't found much. And normally there's like one or two exciting things at Tinley that you all see pictures of. Actually, I got to see, was this stormtrooper ball python? Yeah. And. That was. That was. Disappointed. Oh, you are? Yeah. Nothing. Well, yeah. Well, me, like, it looked cool. But normally it's like, there's like, like in October, there was that conjure that was like almost all black sitting on somebody's table. There was a water monitor on someone's table. That was pretty neat. But I mean, like, you know, there's usually a bunch of other pictures of other stuff that would appeal to everybody or is kind of freaky. Oh, they had the earless monitors there too. That's kind of cool. So. Oh, yeah. That's cool. Yeah. They did have some cool stuff. I retract my statement. So. Well, I'm sure they had awesome stuff. It's just that, like I said, I didn't see a whole lot of it just online. Basically there's, you know, videos and pictures and, you know, all kinds of things. Everything. Yeah. And it might have been there. Because we weren't there. I mean, we weren't there. So there weren't that many pictures taken. You know, there wasn't that many crazy antics and nobody sent anybody a fruity pink drink from across the farm. Yeah. So. That only, those types of shenanigans only happen. I'm not over. So, but it's one of those things that, like, I'm looking forward to it now. And I blame Matt Minutola completely for getting me all jazzed up about it. He's like, we're going to book now. I'm like, yeah. We're booking October, book for October. Yeah. That was several months away. Damn it. So it's like, you know, it's something to look forward to. And get hyped. Yeah, I almost forgot, it's like, yeah, we, I wish it was sooner. No, you don't. Because you don't have any babies. Oh, and you have nothing to bring with you, Jack, to Italy in October. It needs to be several months away so you could actually have things to go with. So. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I got a lot of stuff. So it should be cool. For me. For things. I mean, you, yeah, you don't sell things. I do. I know I got a problem. Speaking of things, coming, you know, and getting new things and such, I did receive a nice little package today from, you know, I consider them the godfather of carpets. And then, you know, there's like his right-hand man or whatever you want to say. But Paul Harris, UK Python, I mean, you know, the guy delivers all the time. And, you know, I've never had nothing but the best, you know, and I don't know. I just thought, well, I showed it to you today, the, so I got a female. Oh. Caramel. Those were new additions. I thought these were things you already had. No. So. Well, the granite jaggery, the granite jaggery. Thank you. Yeah. I think. Ah, shit. Straight. I added a caramel zebra granite, which is a pretty, pretty awesome looking snake. And then a granite zebra, male, you know, that both will probably be up to size next season. Nice. I have a face that that will happen. So that kind of completes that whole granite combo, you know, I, what would you say, granite combo pairings and such project and whatever the branch of the carpet tree that is granite. So you, you, you've checked all the ones on the list now. Yeah. So it, you know. For the most part. Yeah. I mean, there's still like, any granite stuff to make everything, yeah, you can make everything else though. Now. Yeah. I have all the building blocks. Yeah. Yeah. So pretty excited about that. We were talking before the show. You know, this season, I probably will have three to five carpet clutches, but, um, next season. Tell them. How many? Tell them. I could do it. You're looking at about 35, let's say 35, 35, carpet clutches, which the small number, which is if you had an average of what you say, 12 eggs, 12, that's 35 parries, 12 eggs. That would be 412 baby carpets and no repeats. It's not like you're doing eight. Jungle clutches, it's a bunch of mix match craziness 400 babies. Yeah. That covers everything from Coastal's, England's, uh, bridal, uh, what else? Um, couple IJ, Oh, no, no, not in Mercado. Sorry. Oh, granite crosses, diamond jungle jack, albinos, um, yeah, sun glows, um, um, um, you're going to be re-poisoned. I need for a kid. Yeah. It's like, oh, oh God. Oh God. What a season. I won't get it. I should. I'm building it up. You're moving. You're moving. You have the potential of 35 clutches, the biggest season you've ever had and you're going to move right before it. Oh man. Talk about stupidity. Like you realize what you're doing to yourself. Yeah. I might just have to keep that. I might have to have both spots. Eric, I'm going to have two houses just to be sober. What's in that house? Ah, I just keep my snakes in that house. My snakes. Oh my God. Oh God. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I could have did more this year, but, um, I don't know. It seems like, hey, it's whatever you can handle and I don't think there's ever anything wrong with shooting a little bit lower in numbers and, you know, a lot of times, I hear breeders getting overwhelmed with the amount of babies that they have because, you know, either some babies don't sell and they're nipping at the heels of the year before and also the stuff. So, you know, you, I don't think there's anything wrong with shooting for four or five clutches. And if you're happy with four or five clutches, that's it. Just done. Um, well, the one thing that I am trying to do for next year is that I'm not against this at all, you know, I see that just a lot of these like carpet crosses and mutants and crazy like morphs and all, they're all imported. They're all imported, you know, um, which is obvious here. Yeah. I mean, obviously it has to be imported in order to, to you do it at all. So it's not like, um, well, yeah, the import, but I'm just trying to offer something that's, uh, you know, you know, on, on, on, on, um, if we think about the crazy combos and the crazy morphs. Uh, everybody automatically thinks to Nick, but Nick doesn't do any of the crazy combos and morphs, like the newer stuff, like he only does pure this and pure that and pure that. So you will only take you so far. Now then there's Carrie and Todd and they will breed and they're very good at the morphs and they have a bunch of different projects and all the combinations there. Then there's also Hashem, who is just starting to get his feet off the ground. He's got a couple of pairings, uh, with his stuff going right now, some of the high dollar stuff there. And then of course you have the importations of all the other animals. So as we go by breeders of high end funky combo and crazy morphs, you got Carrie and Todd and you got Hashem and then maybe a sporadic sprinkling in between. So if we added you to the mix, then we're just having fun. So, um, it, it, it, it, it, I think it would be cool to actually have animals, like born and bred in the United States, um, and, uh, not does anything wrong with the importations just to be much cooler to have, you know, to start seeing those projects getting reproduced here. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, and I'm all for you making a bunch of crazy animals because I have that 90% discount for being a co host. Yeah, I won't tell that you're getting carpet crosses. Wow. Yeah. Yes. You will. Yeah. You know what? You know what? There's a possibility if there's a possibility. I mean, it's, it's, it's very slight. But there's a possibility that I could produce a tiger albino next season possibility, you know, um, can I have it? Um, we, you know, we should see, I don't know, you know, I don't like to push stuff, um, but there, there's, what, there's two in particular, um, that I don't like to push stuff. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to push stuff, but those eat like, you know, it's, those would be awesome. I want the exotic tiger. So I don't know why I just do. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be cool for sure. You know, and then there's that stuff. And so for like the, the past couple of years, I've really been just breeding, um, you know, uh, like to the foundation to make future projects for myself, you know, double hats. Yeah. But now those are starting to come through, those animals are starting to push up and come to fruition. I mean, you know, they're all starting to grow up. You're starting to get this, that and the other thing. And what a lot of people don't understand is they look at all the animals that you have for sale. And of course, everybody's like, man, that thing's gorgeous. What they didn't understand is that you have five that you've decided to keep for yourself. And this is the one you're letting go. So it's like in the next couple of years, those really gorgeous animals that nobody's seen but myself and a few other people are going to start, you know, breeding. Yeah. So, you know, there's, there's all that coming. So it, uh, we're going to start getting more tables and Timley gets going to be like, you know, those are Eric's three tables and that's Owen way down there. So, you know, his corner is a little, little island. Yeah. So. Well, it's also cool because, um, you know, we've talked about this a 10 lead before, but you know, we always get attention when you bring adult carpet pythons. Um, and to actually sort of have that, you know what I mean, to, to, to be at the point where we're going to have that, um, will be very cool. Yeah. So yeah, I'm, I'm excited, if it wasn't so damn nervous, I'd bring Vulcan to, uh, uh, Timley, like just to bring an older rough scale python to show off, but, uh, you know me and you know, I'd be like sleeping, like underneath the table at Timley just to make sure he didn't go anywhere. So. Yeah. No, no, I'll bring a picture of him. You guys can all look at that. Oh. Yeah, it'll just be like this little black there on the table. Um, it's like we have all the Morelia and a printed picture of a rough scale for everyone to look at. Yeah. Yeah. A three, a 3D printed image of the rough scale. 3D printed image. I'm a victim. Yeah. Yeah. No one can actually breathe on it. But yeah. So yeah, the season, uh, I mean, how's, how's your season coming along? Yeah. Where, where you, uh, I got 30, I got 35 eggs on the ground right now. Mm hmm. Um, and that's, and that's from five eggs from my, uh, tiger jag to red tiger and then the arrest are, arrest her from my caramel female to my caramel jag. So we're getting super caramel jags again, uh, and then my bread life female refused food, which if everybody here, anybody here knows red light, that never happens. So, uh, I'm open and she's looking pretty swollen up. Uh, I have a tiger male on loan from Jason Bailin, who's been breeding the hell out of a coastal female and Bailin and I did this pairing in 2013 together and it yielded some really nice tigers and he and I both wish we had kept animals back, but didn't, um, because people pop up and they're like, I got this tiger and we're like, God damn it. So, uh, that's going well. And then my red, my red tiger, the high con tiger, they're breeding like crazy. Uh, my red jag to high contrast, Queensland are breeding like crazy. So it's like the season isn't over yet and I'm like, Jesus Christ, I'm, I'm like, we still looking down the barrel at three to four clutches. I don't know what the white lips are doing there. They're just kind of here. So, um, and the olives, they, they don't care. Same thing with the maclets, they don't want, they won't open to do with each other. So, you know, it's, I might be looking down the barrel at it, you know, three, four clutches of carpet python still and, you know, which means those eggs aren't going to be here till probably, you know, May-ish maybe and then you're looking at eggs hatchin around July-ish, which I've had before, but you know, we're starting to really get late into the season. We're starting to get coasters clutches that are going to hatch the same time as bread life. So, it just kind of is weird for right now, but, uh, I'm more of the merrier. I want to try to get close to a hundred babies this year. So. Yeah. See, you're talking about a hundred and I'm talking about like, you know, four hundred. That's a big difference. I know. It's, it's. Oh my God. Every year right before, right when the eggs are late, I remove all the bins that are empty from my baby rack and, and all the, the hide boxes and the water bowls and all the stuff. And I take them and I completely like full bore like sanitize the hell out of them just so they're fresh and clean for when the hatchlings hit them. And right now I'm staring at the stacks of cages and it's, they're about a hundred and ten pages I'm looking at right now as well as like buckets filled with their hide boxes and water bowls. And all you think about is if, like when you mentioned 400, I'm like, I'd be looking at like five more stacks of cages and who God knows how many buckets full of shit to do 400 pages. And that's ridiculous. Wow. Wow. Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. I don't. Yeah. You're going to be that guy. Yeah. That's you buddy. So. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. You know, I, I don't know how hard that would be to sell like, you know, I would really, I think some things would kind of fly like, I mean, I'm pretty sure that if you produce 400 babies, it'd be like Nick. And he produces his like however I am pretty, pretty sure he produces like 2000 a year or something crazy. There are some babies that people are lined up for that like the second they have, she knows that people are coming to get them. And then there are other babies that when I call about the baby I wanted, he convinces me to take this one and this one because I kind of want it, but I really don't and he's just do it and I do it. Right. They're probably going to be with those 400 babies. They're going to be babies that people are going to line up and try to bot. And they're going to be other babies that maybe people needs a pushing and then they're going to be some babies. You're like, get the fuck out of here. Like why are you still here? So like that's what it always is. And that's what it is with every clutch. So I imagine with your 400 babies, they're probably going to be 200 babies that sell relatively quickly or very quickly. And then you're going to have your 200 babies that you're going to have to grow up. You're going to have to waste for somebody who's in the market for it. You're going to have to see who might want this, who might want that. And sometimes opportunities arrive. Like I had a super caramel jag that just would not leave and he was very pretty. And it ended up taking somebody losing one of their animals, a caramel jag that they bought from somebody else before they came and bought the super caramel jag from me. So it's just sometimes the opportunity for a sale has to come up here. So yeah, I mean you're 400 babies and here's to say you do the 400 babies next year. Who's to say you're going to do another 400 babies that you're following? You could decide that was, I still have 200 babies. I'm going to breed like 12 this year, like I need to make 12 eggs. Yeah. One clutch. That's it. So the way I've established my collection is that each year, it's kind of in tears. So like each year, another group should breed. You know what I mean? So like I'm thinking by that point, I probably will be breeding diamond pythons, which will be cool. It's like, do you have any, like the problem is that like right now we have a happy relationship you and I, where you don't, I don't sending you all my money. And if once you start breeding and going crazy, where like you could send me pictures and talk to me about these things and I can drive down and see the babies and I get secondary pick because I can pull rank as co-host, which I can do numerous times. And I don't care if no, everybody hates it, but so those will start happening. And then I'll start sending you money. Like you're sitting there and you're like, well, I'm going to breed alvinotigurs. But I want alvinotigurs. It's like, oh, and I got to breed diamond pythons. Damn it. I won't reduce pythons. Diamond pythons. It's like, and then I'm going to stop it. Just stop talking. It's like not telling me things. Yeah, it's like every year. I guess it's good. I don't think, I don't, I guess it's good. I don't have to call Nick anymore. I can just go to your place and be like, and start filling this in and then walk out. I'll take this, this, this, and this. I'll take this. It's like shopping. I'll take this, this, this, this, and this bill me and walk out. Yeah. Oh my gosh. It's pretty crazy. It's like, was that one? Do you see here? Yeah. It's like a kid. I love when he comes. [laughter] Nick's leaving. Then I was in like, just start getting PayPal for like the next three years. Oh man. I just contacted the guy. You should be joining us in a couple of minutes. Okay. Oh. That's the only way I can combat you. The only way is if I start producing freaking like, Savoos, Maclod, white lips, you know, I don't think you're even going to want white lips. Yeah. You know, I mean, like, even with that, well, I mean, if I had space and stuff like, but when space is at a limit, and you know, something's got to go, you know, and trust me, I know, that's how I get most of my life, is you're like, these are so awesome. And like a year later, you're like, take these away. I'm like, nah, it's like, you know, it's how it works. I am. Sorry. I'm dishing all the boas. The boas are leaving. The boas are almost gone. Yeah. I think I found my... Yeah. Yeah, I know. Sorry, all boa people. I think I found my perfect little niche of projects and, you know, things. It's like, you know, Angolans are cool. I really dig though. So they'll always stay. For whatever reason, ever since I was a bumpy ball python. Yeah, ever since I was a kid, they've always like, you know, I've always been fascinated by them. Yeah, I like their colors and, you know, they're just, they're cool. Well, I mean, did your dad have Angolans or were they still like the... Oh, like they would never be the best? Yeah, they were too expensive. That's why you want them because like, the hype was so built up when you were a kid. I mean like... Yeah, I remember walking around, like, I had some men like a book and I remember walking around a rep show and I would see them and I would be like, wow, there's those pythons that I never see anybody have and here they are and it was like $18,000 and I'm like, oh my God. Go hell! You know, no way that I'll ever be able to... You know, there's a few, I know I'm going to get heat for this, but there's a few, you know, royal python projects that I got going on. Again, to me, when I was a kid, they were like the python that it's more of a nostalgia thing for me, you know. So even if it's just like a project, I, you know, I got back up. I'm so disappointed in you, so disappointed in you. I have my chondros, you know, I really like to... No, no, no, your chondros, you can't go from them to chondros, even though one just sits on a stick and he looks just on a ground, but... Yeah, exactly. I don't, I will never have re-ticks again, I'll never own berms, no, I'll never have those again. It's just too big, man, you know, I mean, I don't know, I guess, I understand that. You know, it's like, I don't know if that shit and shoveling shit, it's like if he... Exactly, if the olives pythons were, if they didn't have the their attitude that they have, I would not like them. The fact that they're just too gentle to even give a rat's ass of what's going on in the room. And I know now everybody's running around screaming that berms are gentle and my re-ticks of puppy duck, I don't care, all right. So it's, if the olives pythons didn't even act out a little bit more of a shitty attitude, I wouldn't like them. I honestly wouldn't. It's a big snake. I mean, I... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have plans for how to get them. Both six foot cages. Yeah, but even the olives, you know, they're not as big as a berm, I mean, you know, or... They're talking... They're talking... They're long, but they're not thick. Yeah. Yeah. They're one plus feet, you know, for that's a big snake. It's all goes back to our scrub conversation. You and I tried it. We're done now. We don't want them anymore. Yeah. It's funny. And it's just like how I said, I don't want bloods anymore. I tried it. I'm really good. And it's funny because you're sitting here and you're like, "Well, I'm going to get the ball pythons. I got this project. I got that project." And of course, now I'm sitting... So while you're talking, I'm going through the list in my head of what I want. And my project is I want to add more rough scale pythons because I can't get enough of those little bastards. And I don't think 1.1 is enough. And then if I see one... We're not even going to talk about them, but we all know what I'm going to talk about, what I was going to say. We see the black-faced white lips. All right. I'm going to say it. The Timor pythons. I mean, those are gnawing at my brain. So there's those kinds of things. And of course, I want to add those and that and this and that. And I want to get a few more call-you-brid projects. So I want to expand my python stuff, and I want to get a few more call-you-brids just because I can breed a call-you-brid with my eyes closed and I have to worry about them. Am I going to get into my corn snakes? Yes. Yes, I am. Yes, I will. If I really want to do it, I can get two. Right. It's all right. There they are. Everybody, it's good to have the balance of corn snakes, king snakes, and then the pythons. You have the animal. It's a good pet. None of these. All of these. So. Well, that's sort of like my idea with, you know, my ball python projects for two reasons. One, and the most important thing is, is that for me, that was sort of my way back into, that was my way into python. Like, you know, even though it was that snake that I saw on a pet shop that just like totally amazed me and I thought it was the coolest thing and the fact that it stayed smaller and da-da-da-da. So, yeah, we talked about this before, like, you know, going to a show, if you're going to do a show, you know, I'm talking about doing tingly twice a year and all that stuff. Well, you got to have stuff that kind of like will sell that sort of makes the trip worth while. And, you know, because really, as much as I like selling snakes and all that stuff, really the trip is about for me is just hanging out with, you know, your, your, your rep. But it does, you know, make a lot, it makes a lot better if you sell a few snakes to offset the cost of coming out there. I mean, that's really helpful and also, also offset because you were walking around and you decided you needed a pair of rhino rat snakes. I mean, it's nice to offset those decisions too. So, which, by the way, by the way, Owen, just, just on the side, you're talking about loopers and adding them, you realize that since Robbie is going to be going to tingly with us and, like, by our table, he's going to have, I know, rat shot, no, oh, oh, oh, bitch. Oh. God damnit. No, God damnit. Son of no. No, because then it's going to be sitting there. It's going to be jazz. Chad, Grey's going to be like, hey, Owen, Black Grey's with us and then Rob's going to be there, like, with his rhino rat snakes and then Owen is, you're going to see my brain break in half. Like, I'm just going to crumple to the floor after I've gone tatatonic. So you just need to just take my wallet, pay the two people and bring you to snakes later when I come through. So, but it is, mmm, damnit. Yeah. It should be interesting. That's going to be hard, dude. Yeah. So we have Scott on the line. Let's cook him on. Enough of our ramblings. Thank you for that talk. Yeah. Hey, Scott. Welcome back to the show. Good to go. How are we? We're doing good. We're ready to talk. Australian venomous snakes. Oh, I'm always ready to talk. And especially that venomous, like, this is, you know, my oils have said to me last night. I think Danny Mendes said to me last night that I can talk underwater. So, um, how did I come up with him as far as I can talk with him as shit, but that's all right. Very nice. Hey, work. Yes. Well done. Cool. All right. So, um, what drew you to the, working with the venomous species was it kind of like a, all the time thing for when you were a kid or did you just decide one day that you really wanted to crack at it? Okay. Well, I was keeping venomous snakes for 10 years before I got a python. Okay. So, I spent a bit of time with venomous and all the hands. I grew up in Melbourne. In Melbourne, there's no pythons or anything like that. So, um, if you wanted to go and catch snakes out of the bush, um, the only way that you were, the only things you were finding were things like tigers snakes and brown snakes and you got beds and all that sort of stuff. So, um, so I started off very early on, on mucking around with those sorts of things. And, and basically what happened was, is that I would find them out in the bush, dad would kick my ass because I bought venomous snakes home, he would go and then release them, and then I wouldn't be able to sit down for a week. And then basically the next weekend would go around and then I would run out to the bush and go and find myself another snake, bring it home. Eventually I went out, um, my father eventually put the pod okay. You're going to do this, let's do this properly, and then went about, uh, going through and started learning how to do it properly and, and going from there. So, from the ages, to the 10 years old, I was legally keeping venomous snakes I suppose. Um, and then, but I, I sort of started keeping snakes about five years old. So, um, and then had to listen to them and all the other different pieces. So, I didn't give my first carpet snake until I, I would have been about 17 or 18, I suppose, and that would have been more important. So, I was keeping, I get snakes and rare snakes and death, and all that stuff, uh, but many years before I was keeping carpet porcents, so, uh, you, you did it backwards. You did it backwards. You went from dangerous, evil, like, just death to, like, carpet python. So, it's, like, you know, you did it backwards, but that's kind of cool. I got hit by a python. Sorry? Oh my God. Yeah. So, I'd, I'd been, I'd been hit by an elapid before I'd been hit by a python. So, you know, um, uh, um, bit by the elapid, uh, it was a western brown snake, and I was 12 years old. I was a bit involved, a western brown, so, um, yeah, here's one of those things. And, you know, put my hand in the cage, one of these cardinal walls that I've got an outlet, you don't open the cage without knowing what snake is, and you don't try and do anything in the cage with the rhythm of a snake inside the enclosure. So, um, I broke both of those rules and ended up getting a brown snake hanging off my finger. Um, but, you know, venomous snakes aren't, uh, for everybody, that's for sure. Um, there's plenty of people out there that are keeping them now that probably shouldn't. And, you know, if I could put an old head on young shoulders, um, I probably shouldn't have been keeping venomous snakes for a good 10 years before, um, earlier than I did, you know. So, um, you know, I've got people that sort of, I've helped, helped sort of trying along and mental. Um, and I generally don't do that if I'm under the age of 18, just from, from legal reasons. And, but also, it's so maturity, I mean, you can get mature teenagers and stuff like that, but for the most part, they're, they're not that mature. Um, and as a result, you can, you can sort of deal with things like that in that regard. So, um, so, yeah, I mean, I suppose it depends on what your listeners are into. I mean, with, with regards to things like keeping venomous snakes and working with venomous snakes, I mean, they're fantastic animals. I mean, I don't look at a venomous snake, you know, a, a adrenaline buzzer of working with a venomous snake. There's no, um, puffing your chest out and going, Oh, I'm a manly venomous keeper because I've got venomous snakes or I'm seeing you because I keep venomous snakes as a whole lot of bullshit. Um, right. The reality of it is, is if you keep venomous snakes, you keep venomous snakes. There's plenty of people that do it out there for that, that much, oh, I want to be like Stuart or whatever the case is, um, that's not the right reason to keep venomous snakes. And generally those ones don't last, they either snap out of that sort of crap or they um, they're, I'm sure you get it in a python, you see people come in and they, they fire a big and then they disappear in five years, you know, that, you know, what's, you see, they're like, well, what was the point? You know, they make a lot of noise and they do a lot of, they do a lot of that and they tell everybody that they're an expert and then, you know, the next thing, you know, they're, they're selling all their animals off, you know, with venomous, it tends to happen to get a, a touch up from something, um, you know, that they're lying in the hospital bed and it's got blood drooping and their eyes, their armpits, they're growing their bum and they go, well, you know, oh my god, you know, um, you know, I mean, I've got permanent nerve damage in my hand, you know, I've got problems with one of my kidneys, um, I've got muscle issues in, in my left hand, so on body, um, I lost my sense of smell, I lost my sense of taste, I lost those for two years, of course, what got on back, um, you know, keeping these things is a not, you're not invincible, you know, you don't, and I try not to, I try not to get bitten, I don't tend to free handle too much, I don't tend to, um, you know, put myself at risk, certainly I don't do what I used to do, um, you know, what used to be a fairly avid free handler and do all sorts of bits and pieces and then I got smacked by a swamp snake which is a more or less a harmless a lacquer, it'd be similar in toxicity to a hog nose snake or something like that in the U.S., um, an oil into anaphylactic shock and almost died on the mountain side, um, you know, it's all well and good to have anti venom, but anaphylaxis, anaphylactic shock and that constricts your airwaves and doesn't matter how much anything you have, you can't breathe, that's no good to you, so, um, so yeah, that was, I suppose, a little bit of a wake up call and I'm no longer invincible so to speak and that was 15 years ago, so, no, yeah, so, if you want to get into venomous, you've got to be a vet to pay the price because even though most people, if they don't, if they do think right away and all the rest of it, um, they shouldn't get bitten, what invariably happens is people start taking risks and they start taking, um, liberties I suppose if you will, when they're dealing with them and, you know, you do get into a routine, you know, there's no doubt about it, um, I, I use hooks a lot, um, you know, I mean the hook, a hook for me is all almost an extension of my hand, um, and that's how it needs to be, it needs to be that way, but shit, I'll use them for everything, it's bloody boy Yimbricato, all this sort of stuff that I've got here as well, I'll find you probably like a bit by Yimbricato, you know, or a laughter, yeah, I don't like it, you know, like, what are you doing, I don't like picking teeth out on my fingers, so, and the thing here is because I'm in a habit, and I also tell, I may not use, um, holding bins and stuff like that, and I post up some photos or stuff that I use, um, but I use holding bins for the animals and it saves me bending down to actually pick this make up out of the bin too, I could just use the hook and you know, I don't have to bend down as far as I suppose, so, you know, it could be a leisure thing as well, you know, but, you know, this is the thing, I mean, so many people don't look after their animals properly, because they take, uh, they take sort of skips, they skip steps and things like that, if you look at somebody who's keeping like a single part of a single bit of dragon, or, or whatever the case may be, look at the following closure that those people put that in close, that's making to, you know, they do look at nice bin, swaying closure or whatever and all the rest of it, you know, the snake uses all of it, and for the most part it's probably better than cooking in a, in a pub, um, but, at the same time, I mean, we, you know, with, with larger collections, we're using carbs and caging and all that sort of stuff, um, and we sort of take, uh, liberties I suppose, and we don't necessarily always look after the animals the best way we can, you know, I look at some of these really huge commercial setups, um, you know, they've got everything into, you know, tubs with a, you know, 700, 700, 800 deep and 150 no high and 450 no ward or whatever it is and, you know, they're keeping and breeding forth and things like that and that's fine, it works, but is it really the best for, for those animals, right, I'm not, I'm not so sure that it is, you know, um, it's certainly from an observing point of view, I mean, you, you can't really tell me that you can see exactly what's going on when you're looking at those animals and those enclosures, you know, you've, you've got to open the enclosure to look at that animal to, to really see what's going on and then are you disturbing it because you've opened the enclosure and you're not really seeing the behavior of that animal. Um, you know, I kept stuff in tubs for years and it, it works brilliantly, but I'm, I suppose I mean, I've, I've sort of gone away from, from keeping everything in tubs now and trying to get as much stuff into caging or, I mean, I'm lucky too that I can keep stuff out outside here as well. So I'm, I'm trying to move as much stuff outside to get natural photo period and things like that. Um, but I, I digress away from their lap is a little bit, um, so, um, what were we talking about? We, well, we were sort of like, I don't know, we're sort of just diving into that, but the goal, man, I mean, yeah, yeah, this happened last time, remember, we never actually spoke of it. Of course. We brought you back. We didn't have to do anything. It's awful. But. See, uh, I saw that, uh, I was going back. Go on. Go on. Okay. Oh, okay. All I, all I've got to say is I, I, I saw those, those beautiful blackface white lips hatching out, uh, from, um, uh, oh, don't think it's the horn on a jellyfish. They are absolutely gorgeous. Um, I don't have any, I just had to say, I want them. Anyway, I want them to start talking about orange fantasies. I mean, that's just, uh, oh, no, they're mine. They're mine. Oh, my little, don't worry about it. I know. See everybody, except for Eric. He's not cool enough. Um, don't you, don't you lock America? What's wrong with you? I, you know, I, I do like them, but you know how like you, you know, that some things just aren't for you and like, you know, I don't know, it's just, all right, you need to change who you are. And because if you don't, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, see, I'm, I'm lucky in as far as that if I want to see them or mess with them or whatever, I just have to go to Owen's house. You know? And you don't have to, yeah, well, I can see the benefit in that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of can too. So, but I, whatever, but I kind of want to backtrack to your, your bikes. Um, yeah, you mentioned a few of them. So you want to talk about mockups, you want to talk about your moments of triumph. I want to hear about the time you come to hell off. Yeah. Yeah. Look. I looked at him and I, I mean, you know, it was just like, I mean, we just wanted to kind of get what was the worst one was the one where you went to have like the shock and I mean, how, how bad are these? And like, did you, did they cost you any kind of money for the anti-venom? I mean, with each one bad, was there a bad one? Yeah. Was there a fucking huge one? Um, okay. So in Australia, we've got a fantastic medical system, um, anti-venom is free. Okay. Hospital treatment is free. Oh, okay. So you walk into the hospital, you know, I've been bitten and they go, Oh, shit. And then they freak out. And then they put you on a bed and you go through and do a little bit in place that you need to do. Um, essentially though, yeah, I don't know. I mean, probably one of my worst bites was back in 96. Um, I was bitten by a spot of black snakes. You should eat this guitar. That's, you know, they're known as being a fairly mildly venomous snake. They're not, they're not known to be incredibly toxic by Australian centers, but, um, I mean, they're, they're, they'll certainly knock you around. Um, so I got a bite from one of those. I had, um, used to use light bulb boxes, the boxes that you light bulbs come in, but used to have those in, in a lot of the tubs and racks and things like that as, as hides for the, the snakes. And at the back of the light bulb box, there's like a fold of cardboard. And so anyway, I was plenty at any enclosure in the snake with inside the light bulb box. So I've just picked up the box and gone to put the box into the bin. And as I've done that, it stuck its head out the back of the box and decided that my pinky finger was something you could eat and gave me both food bite into the finger. Um, and I flipped it off and then gone and picked it up and then put it away and just gone, Oh, that sucks. And I thought didn't think too much of it, but I could feel the heat and I can actually feel hot, hot as the venom is traveling down through my finger, then into my hand and into my arm. And I was wondering about whether I'd go to hostel or not, I was thinking about walking out of the light and got my black snake, which would be right, about 10 minutes in. And I thought, no, fuck this, I've got to go to the hostel, this is going to hurt. This is going to be bad. And I put a bandage on, got to the hostel in 15 minutes. By the time I got to the hostel, I was in and out of consciousness, I was throwing up. Um, I didn't know where I was after or after, but basically I was stopped. Um, I remember getting onto the bed at the hospital, um, and then turning around and saying, Oh, he doesn't look real flush. And they said, what was, what was the video on a spot of black snake? And then we proceeded to have an argument for 20 minutes. So with the hospital staff, um, to say that basically, yes, this is what a spot of black snake, they're arguing that, well, you don't get spot of black snakes in Victoria. So it couldn't be one of those. And my response to that was, well, in my fucking shed, you do. Um, and then turned around, I got onto the, um, spoke to her, I said, sped to one of the doctors who had ringed, strung someone who's a, uh, sort of world-renowned toxicologist and said, ring him and tell him that I've told you that I've been bit more spot of black snake. And so anyway, he told him that, yes, he's been bit more spot of black snake, believed him and treated accordingly. So that was all well and good. Um, so I was going down hill pretty fast at this point in time. I had an ECG, uh, all the ECG sort of stickers on my chest and all the rest of it. I had a catheter in my left hand, I had a catheter in my chest, I had a catheter in my leg. Um, they were giving me adrenaline and steroids, along with first-hand fuel with any of them. Um, that was all, all wasn't too bad, but I was still feeling really, really cold. The problem was, as my body was at about 41 degrees, so they were, they were thinking I was going to actually sort of burn up and do some brain damage and things like that, which was pretty bad. Um, but I kept trying to pull blankets on and stuff like that. So they started to get like ice packs and bring ice packs in my chest to try and call me down. Um, and then they said, all right, well, we want to test out the snake venom detection kit that we have over here and prove, prove outs of what it is, we've never had a confirmed spot of black snake bite before, so we want to test it. I thought, oh, yeah, okay, no worries, so I said, oh, what do you need? And they go, oh, blood samples and urine samples, oh, okay, no worries. Um, so they said, so they go, I gave them the blood samples and then, if they just took them from the drips and they said, all right, we need the urine sample. I'm like, well, you know, you got me up sailing, I'll, I'll be able to hook you up in a couple minutes. I don't need to go right now. No, no, no, we're taking it now and as soon as they said that, there was two orderlies came in and then one, one, one shoulder on each shoulder and then my catheter tubes are bloody big. I'll tell them out. They're too big. Yeah. Right. Oh my God. Okay. So I don't know if you've got a lot of catheter is. Yeah. But a basic idea that goes up, goes up the eyes, you penis. Oh. All right. And now I've had a neurotoxic snake bite, there's no pain relief. There's no, no depression of the nervous system with it. All right. So they won't give me any painkillers or anything like that. So no anesthetic, no painkillers, no numbing agents, all right, I reckon I could have killed them and, yeah, it, it, fuck it, mate, the pain, the pain of that is so bad. And you know, the worst thing, I don't know if you've got the, had the displeasure of having one, but you can actually feel it on the inside of your bladder and it scratches around and shit like that, you know, and then as they're pulling it out, it tears, right? So I'll get back to that, right? So anyway, so this is kind of sucking, you know, now, give you a line, you know, point in time. Oh, no, no, no, this is, yeah, it's kind of sucking in the mind, but it gets worse. This is for somebody to think about whether they really want to go into getting, getting venomous snakes. So at this point in time, I mean, they're a neurotoxic venom, but they've also got hemotoxins and cytopoxins and myotoxins in there, you know, venom as well. So at this point in time, the skin of my finger and my hand has gone from being looking sort of like normal skin to looking like the, you know, when you get a balloon and you blow a balloon up and they look kind of shiny, my hand and finger if that's swollen, that my hand is gone shiny. Wow, it's stretched out that much that it's gone shiny, right? Oh, it's purple and black and all the rest of it. And the doctors are freaking out going, we might need to do what's known as a fast. You ought to need to make sure that your hand doesn't explode. Oh, look at that. That's very painful, right? Oh. Well, I reckon exploding, your hand exploding is going to fucking suck too, you say. I don't know. Good point. If you're not good, didn't think about that, you're right. You know, so they kind of suck you to work, you know. So anyway, like, and the pain, right, the pain that you get to get you caught from this is just fucking ridiculous. Have you guys ever hit your hand finger with a hammer before? Yes. Yes. All right, so you know how it sucks even more the second time after you've hit it. Right? That's what it's like. Just keep hitting your hand. Do you want to feel what a third mistake feels like? Get your finger, get it up against the blocker team box, and hit it on the finger with a hammer. Ow. Now, not once, never to be twice. No, no, no, no. Just keep going. Just keep going. Right? Because what happens is you get the pain, throbbing pains that go through. At every time you get that throb, it's like you've just been hit with a fucking hammer. Wow. It sucks so bad. Oh, my God. It sucks out from the fucking pain. Right? Okay, so I'm laying there in the hospital. I've got a fucking catheter hanging out at the end of the clock. I've got a hand that's swollen up like a fucking balloon, and they're talking about fucking going, "Are you okay, sir?" No. You're not fucking okay. I'm not okay at all. What the fuck is this? God damn question is that. No. How are you okay? No, I'm better. I'm better. No. No, I'm not okay. Right? Anyway, another ample or anything. I had the other ample or anything, like give you steroids and adrenaline, along with it to try and sort of minimize the chances of an allergic reaction to the antidote. And then from that, they turn around and they sort of go, "Well, we'll monitor your signs." And they basically started to say that my heart rate, my blood pressure came up, my heart rate sort of got back to normal, so it wasn't sort of doing sort of the erratic heartbeats. The swelling started to go down a little bit of my hand, and that was that. So, basically the second ethical of any damage did the trick. So this is something that's meant to be regarded as sort of slightly mildly venomous. You know, not that bad. Yeah. And yeah, so it may not be that bad for some people, but for me, it was pretty bad. So anyway, overnight at the hospital, they wanted me to stay there another night, or discharge themselves, because I don't like hospital food and don't like hospitals in general. And then, yeah, then with that. So I've got permanent nerve damage in my finger, in my hand, and in my arm as well, muscle damage in my arm from that as well. It was breaking down the muscles in my hand and my arm. And then by doing that, it basically overloaded my kidneys. And my kidneys ended up partially sort of blocking up a little bit. And one of the ways you die from these particular species, or this species group of snakes, through renal failure, where your kidneys block up with all your blood and your muscles. And they can't feel for it because they block, then you get an infection and you're dead in a couple of days. So basically I've come good, but my kidney function has been permanently damaged from that bite. So yeah, not that bad, but I've got permanent damage in my hand and permanent damage in my kidneys from it. And then I also lost my sense of smell and taste as well. I lost them for about two years. So it did just one of those things with black snake bites, so it was a fairly horrendous experience or so, and not something I wanted to repeat. I remember sitting in the hospital bed going, "Shit, do I still want to keep these things?" And that was all for about 10 minutes, and then I'm going, "Yeah, fuck yeah, I'm going to keep to keep at it." Yeah, so that was it, so I got home and got home from the hospital and then was one arm dealing with all the snakes for the rest of the week. So that kind of sucked and made it a bit more difficult, but I made sure that I wasn't quite taking the liberties there. So I mean, that's what happens when you put your hand inside and in close with the venomous snake and not really treat them with the respect that they deserve. So whether you do that, whether it's a cobra or an authentic or a mamba or anything of type and it's all the same, in that regard it's all the same. If you pull the animal out, put the animal into a holding bin, then you can service the enclosure. It's not a problem. If you fail to actually do it properly, that's when you're going to have issues. If you don't pull that animal out of the enclosure, that's when you're going to get bit. I got bitten by a death out of doing exactly the same thing. I thought, "Oh Jesus, no problem, I'll just get the water ball out of the front of the cage." I remember reaching in and grabbing the water ball and looking down at the death out of sinking its fangs into the back of my thumb knuckle and going, "Oh, well, that was stupid. I went off to school all the way." Yeah, well, it was only a young one, so I wasn't really too worried about it. But looking back on it, knowing what I know now, I probably should have gone off to school. That's actually no. I'll scratch that. I should have gone off to the hostel. There's no problem about that at all. So, yeah, and then forced feeding, obviously, you know, you guys are forced feeding or if you're speeding pipers. Every now and then you go, "I might jam a tooth into your finger." Well, when you jam a tooth, and when I lack a tooth into your finger, that kind of stuff. I got done by August 9th through a cut on my thumb. I had a cut on my thumb and I was forced feeding it, and it was just expressing venom all over the mass that I was forced feeding and all the rest of it. Anyway, I got venom into a cut on my finger, so I wasn't bitten by the snake, but because I was forced feeding it, I got venom on my finger, and then, you know, my handle's swelled up, and felt like I hit it with a hammer, and that was a bad hit, but I didn't get any of the systemic effects out of that one. So, and then, I just say, some things like that, just sticking your finger on the end of their sanding when you're forced feeding them with actually, with me and us, which are now all of 130 millimeters long, you know, that they're pretty small, so 11 inches. It's just under five inches long. So they're pretty tiny, small snakes, and something like that, generally speaking, is even at that size isn't going to knock you off the perch, so you don't tend to worry about it too much, the exception is obviously brown snakes and tie pants. Straight out of the eggs, there's been recorded deaths from both of those pieces, so. But now, I mean, after my anaphylactic reaction, I treat everything as if it can kill me, regardless of whether it's my live anima for the hatchling, or anything like that, it can all kill me, so I'd just rather not get bitten, and you know, it's certainly not a, it's not a badge of honor, it's a, it's, every time you get bitten, it's a sign that you fucked up, and something like that, well, because if you do things right, you don't get bitten, as simple as that. Right. You know, so, anyone can keep venomous snakes, it's really not hard, but you need to have your procedures right, and you need to do things the right way. You know, snake bite protocols is a big thing, having a system where, where things are set up in the right way, if you're comparing it to a successful keeping. I mean, I've got, in my, in my snake room, I've got it set up, but on the floor of the snake room, or on the door of all those snake rooms is a compression bandage, it's, it's on a zip tie holder, just in a plastic bag, ready to go, but it doesn't matter where you are, I know that on that door, on the inside of those doors to my snake room, there is a, a bandage there, there's also a bandage on the, on my tool rack as well, in the room as well. So, I know that I've got two broad compression bandage ready to, ready to go at any time, and off I go, so to the ice, we'll put the bandage on. Treatment of a upper bite's a little bit different to, to viper bites, um, essentially with viper bites, as I understand it, and because I don't keep them, I don't need to, to know as much, um, is basically as you use hard to keep it static, you're not to move the bite, if you can avoid it, so if you've bitten on the arm or anything like that, put your arm in the sling, but you don't put a, if it's not a neurotoxic bite, you don't put a compression bandage on it. Um, that says you, if I was bitten by, you know, something like a Southern Pacific rat or something that's got neurotoxins in there as well and pretty nasty neurotoxins, well, I'd probably consider putting on a compression bandage, even though it's going to suck and you might lose your fingers or hand or, or, or something like that, I'd rather lose a finger or a hand and not die, um, so it's, it's good idea. It's sort of one of those things, uh, I mean, I mean that blue belly pain that I was in from that blue belly, I spot a black st. Louis I know, um, the pain that I was in, I was, you know, someone had given me a hacksaw, oh, it was seriously considered cutting off my fucking finger, that's how much pain I was in. Wow. Jesus. So when you're in that much pain, you can think about losing your finger and actually cutting it off yourself. They're like, mmm, yeah, kind of fucking, yeah, it's, it's not, yeah, it's not good. So yeah, so if you, if you think that you can't hold it together when you're dealing with, with venomous snakes, um, then, then maybe it's not for you, um, at the same time, I mean, you know, there's plenty of people out there that that's what they love to do and I'm one of them, you know, I like keeping venomous snakes and it's really not a problem. Um, the problem is when you start dealing with cowboys and, and people are emulating, emulating their TV heroes, I suppose, um, and, you know, it's a little bit different. I mean, over here, I mean, a lot of us, not grow up with venomous snakes, but we, we grow up dealing with venomous snakes and we, we know a lot of people who work with venomous snakes in the industry and it seems to be, over here, as people get lizards and they get pythons and then after a while, they, they might get venomous. Um, so it seems to be either like this progression, I suppose, you know, the evolution of, of a snake keeper or reptile keeper here in the country. Um, and then some people stick with it and then some people get rid of them. Um, unfortunately they always, things like Facebook, you know, I'm seeing people that have been keeping reptiles for a few weeks, you know, six months and they decide that they want to get themselves a death harder or something like that. And then they, so they go through and they do a, they go through and they do a snake handling course or something like that, which, you know, I mean, I, I run snake handling courses as well. Um, but for, from keeping, from a keeping point of view, you know, they work a, a pinch of shit. They really are. And you can't teach somebody how to handle a venomous snake in two days. Um, the venomous snake training courses that I do is for mine and it's relocating of, of venomous snakes out of a mine. So I can teach somebody a completely non-contact method of removing a snake from a permanent environment and then going and releasing that. That's, that's not a problem at all. But if you're keeping in captivity, you're going to get retain the, retain ice caps. You're going to get, um, times when you need to put your hands on the animal. Um, right. Um, I can't, I couldn't teach anyone in two days how to do that, do it, and do it safely. And yet there's plenty of people out there that apparently can. And I think reality of it is that they, they can't, they can't teach them in that time. Um, not, not really teach them what they need to know. You know, you can give them the basics and give them an understanding, but you can't actually get them sort of to a point where they're competent in, in keeping something like a, I mean, in here, you've got to say that if you, if you're creating something in Queensland, because there's no levels in, in our licensing, if you've got a lot better mistake permit, that allows you to keep everything from red, black snakes through the tie pants. Um, now tie pants being the toughest animals to keep, um, from a handling management point of view, um, you would then, I mean, the way I would reason it is that you'd need to make sure that those people are competent in, in handling the tie pants, um, reality of it is that probably 70 to 75% of the people keeping the tie pants now, um, aren't competent to keeping the tie pants, because they've never dealt with a tie pants that they actually wigs out. Um, you know, you see something like that. I mean, I had a, a tie pin here for years that, the way I used to open the enclosures with a hook. I had to open the enclosure with a hook and then wait for it to come out, because when it came out, it was coming out striking, and when you've got an 8 feet of 5 hand striking in your face, you know, and it strikes, there's no good big speed, um, well, how do you get in to pick it up? If it's striking 6 feet, how do you get in a distance to get up, how do you get in? Well, basically what you do is you got to let it strike out you and as it strikes out, you've got to come to the step to the side and pick it up all the tail as it comes through and then get it onto a hook. All right, that's how you got to be able to pick them up. You can't teach somebody that, you know, someone's going to get bitten on the forehead if you try to teaching somebody that, you know, it's just absolutely insane and I used to pull that snake out and show people that snake when they were telling me that they're ready for tie pants. I used to say, "Oh, you're ready for tie pants, you want to do this?" Go get them, yeah. You go stand in the corner and you watch this, all right, and I used to get it out and they did that every time, every person that saw that said, "No, fucking way," or never again. Never mind. Never mind. I'm good. I'm just listening to you and I'm saying that. No. I don't have to say it. Oh, yeah. And seriously, when you see them actually go off. Holy shit. Oh, they strike quickly, accurately, and, yeah, I mean, this is all, this is a big thing, you know, you're right for you, which is the most dangerous thing. And there's three snakes that always come up, and they're block marmars, tie pants and kinkos. And, you know, a lot of people that I know that have said a lot of form of pre-species or say that the marmars are probably the fastest, the kinkobra is the most intelligent, and the tie pants are just another year's form of a lot. You're crazy. Yeah, okay. And, you know, most of the people just think they're just nuts, you know. I find the, I find tie pants really easy to work with for the most part, but you need to work them, you know, in a certain way, you need to be very calm, confident, and cool in your methods, in your handling, you can't, you can't be sort of jerry as you do it or anything like that, you know, you know, you need to know, you know, and work with the same, working with kinkobra is exactly the same. I haven't really had the pleasure of working with marmars or kobra for any length of time, so something that I'd love to go and do, but everybody that I've spoken to that's sort of worked with all three is sort of all say the same thing and that regard. You know, tie pants are intelligent snakes as well, you know, and so are marmars. So, you know, these snakes, all of these snakes that we're talking about are big, you know, they get upwards of 10 feet long. They are all intelligent, they are all fast-moving and they're all strong. You know, so, you know, these are incredible animals and, you know, they watch you, you know, I walk into the room and the tie pants are watching me as I'm walking around, right? They're watching me, they see what I'm doing, they're interacting with me, you know. And they know, tie pants know people by them as well. If I'm going in and working with the tie pants, it's not so much of an issue. If my life tie goes in and she's doing anything with them, there's a lot more fire with her and a lot more sort of edgy because they don't trust it, they don't know it. You know, these snakes know individual people as well as how and stuff. And they do get to suck fucking people to a point. Brown snakes and tiger snakes and red bellies and collets and mulga snakes and all that sort of stuff don't, they're dumb, they're dumb animals, they don't. There's no, you know, they get used to dealing with people and they get used to being dealt with in a certain way that they don't recognise individual people when they're working with them. So, yeah, so basically getting back to protocols as well, I don't know anybody in other teams in there, when you're dealing with your protocols, I've got advantages on the wall. So if I get a bite, first thing I do is I put the bandage on. I don't call for help or anything like that. First thing I do is put the bandage on, after the snake is secure, OK? So, that would usually be putting the snake back into its enclosure or into its holding bin or whatever the case is, you know. So, I don't want somebody walking into a room where there's a snake moving around on the ground. At that point then, as I will pick up time, I will ring the hospital first and say they all become in the snake bite from XYZ species, hang up the phone and then I will ring the ambulance and then once I've run the ambulance, I will then ring my wife and then she'll come down hopefully and go from there otherwise I'll walk calmly and close, I'll block the doors and then walk out and just sit at the front waiting for the ambulance to turn up. I won't drive myself to the hospital. Obviously, if you drive yourself to the hospital, you're at risk of collapsing and the last thing I want to do is collapse behind the wheel and kill a fan like that because I'm probably fucking blind as a vehicle. You know, obviously, if you're out in the field or something like that and there's no no mobile service and there's no other option or anything like that, then you take it as it comes, so to speak, but generally speaking for me, the way our protocol stuff is in that way. I also have a file that has my medical history in it in regards to previous bites and surgeries and all the other bits and pieces that I've had go wrong with me medically and so that they will be handed to the doctor at the same time along with a copy of my book on venomous snakes as well. I've got a copy of that in the protocols as well. The whole reason I've got the book in there is basically for the doctors to sort of believe me a little bit. I'm not just another snake, I do have a bit of an idea. I know what I'm talking about, yeah. And sort of when you show them a printed book, it's like, "Oh, okay, all right, fair enough, then I don't know, maybe you do know what you're talking about." So that's basically it. So then when you get into the hospital with a bite straight into an ICU emergency department, they leave the bandy John, they will take blood, they will take urine samples if you can give it to them. They don't always forcibly take it from you, they've crossed the end and, yeah, I'm like, "You don't give me a catheter or I'll fuck them all, yeah, I'll take my cat out there, yeah. Dude, that fuck is so bad, oh, you know. Oh, I just, oh, come out of surgery not too long ago, I had surgery on my bowel. I'll be hydrated there chasing you, thanks." And they said, "All right, well, you know, you need to, you haven't gone to toilet yet, you know, you've got to, you've got to go, go," and I'm like, "Oh, I can't, I can't, I can't, oh, we're going to give you a catheter," and I'm like, "Oh, I'll try it, I'm going to try it, I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it, yeah, I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it, yeah." And they're like, "No, no, no, no." Anyway, so, I've gone through this pleasure twice, however, it's nowhere near as bad if you have anesthetic. It doesn't hurt. Yeah, it does hurt. But it doesn't hurt. So, the second time I had it, I was like, "Oh, oh, well, I don't want to say the phrase that it was a pleasant surprise because it certainly wasn't pleasant, but it was no in near as bad as the first time. It was better. Yeah, it's like, how can I phrase it? Alright, maybe getting done by like a ten foot scrubby, and then getting done by a hackling scrubby. You know, I suppose that's the difference, you know what I mean? It still sucks, but it's no when you're out, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's certainly not fucking pleasant, though. Yeah, I was going back to on that. With that catheter, right? So, they've given it to me because he's got the urine sample on my get-awesome. And they, I said, "Look, can I get this out?" And they're like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, wait, I don't want to pull it out." So, I just had the fucking thing and I'll just pull it out. I scratched all the inside of my urethra. Alright? Yeah! So, out. Now, this is corrosive. Alright? You know when you get like salt in a cup? Alright? Do you imagine getting salt in your cup, like, all the way in your body? Oh, God! Alright? Alright? Now, I don't want to know if it works. It's not better yet, it gets worse. Oh, God. So, it feels like I'm kissing loads of loads, right? But I'm attached to a fucking drip, as well. Alright? So, they're pumping a liter of saline into me in an hour. Every hour on the hour, at night, overnight, all the rest of it. Alright? Every time I take a piss, it goes down there, down the tube, and then it burns too much. So, it goes back. And it's like, eventually, when I did take a pee at, like, five o'clock in the morning, I recognized constantly peeing for life. Oh, what did it mean? Maybe five minutes, I reckon, I was peeing continually for. Oh, wow! And it was like the best piss of my life, but it hurt so bad. I had just screaming the entire time. Oh, it's so, so bad, but it feels bad. Oh, God. Sorry. You know, if nothing else, that has to be white. You don't want to keep venomous facts, you know. It's right there. Oh, it's done. It's done. It's yours over. You know, it's done. We're good. Yeah. You lied. You sold me. Yeah, I'm good now. I'm good. Yeah, but, you know, what do you do? It's just one of those things, I suppose. You know, you sort of get there and go, well, you know, it is what it is, I suppose. Yeah. So, all right, so what I'm going to do now is I'm going to start putting up some photos of the venomous room and stuff like that at home. So we can sort of start talking about that up on NPR chat. Yeah. And I will also put some photos up of some of these animals that have beaten me so we can, we can sort of, like, roll with names a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, basically. So, all right. So, as I was talking, I'll start putting those photos up. Sorry, what was the next thing on the list? What were we talking about now? I haven't. Have you ever thought of venomoids? No. Because you thought some of the venomoids. Yeah. Let's go down that slide, right? Let's do this. Because I imagine you're going to be, this is a wonderful button issue. So let's do it. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, I might surprise you, actually. Really? Okay. Yeah. All right. I'll start off first by saying that there's no reason for a private person to have a venomoid snake. Okay. If you want to keep going, you want to keep a snake. You want to keep a snake? Keep it the way it was intended to be. I don't agree with the venomoids in private hands at all. Okay. However, where I do agree with venomoids is somewhere like a zoo. Okay. I don't see a problem with zoos having venomoid snakes at all. I don't see an issue with it at all. From an occupational health and safety point of view, we all have to deal with our HNS. And what do you guys, is it an insurance, I believe? I'm sure you know what I'm talking about there. Oh, HNS. And risk minimization is an absolute key thing. If you can keep a fertile arm, so you can keep a black mamba or you can have these animals in your enclosure. And it's not going to be able, if it escapes, it's not going to be a venomoid. A member of the public, if it is, you know, any of these things that's going on. And it's not going to be an issue, then why not have a venomoid? I don't see a problem with that for educational purposes. Fine. But people that are taking snakes out. I mean, if you're doing a snake talk, educational displays at schools and things like that. You know, and you want to bring on copperheads or timber rattle snakes or something like that. So people know what the various snakes are around, York or whatever. And yeah, I've got no problem with that. Because they're being used for an educational purpose. This isn't an animal that's being kept in a basement somewhere or in a cage or a room or something like that. That's away from the public. This is animals that are going to have exposure to the public. So potentially, you know, you've got that risk there. So, yeah, why not? Why not have venomoids in that sense? Through the venomoids, I don't think they should be bloody strapped to a board and have their venom glands cut out or something like that. It should be done through proper veterinary channels. But I don't necessarily have an issue with it. The whole bullshit of, "Oh, snakes need their venom to digest." Well, I feed my snakes dead prey. Most people I know feed their snakes dead food items. All right, the venom doesn't get circulated around the food item. So, if the case was that the snake needed it to be needed its venom to actually digest its food, then if you had a snake regurgitate a meal, you would only find one part of that mouse that would actually digest it. Reality of the whole rodent gets digested, all right, but the venom hasn't permeated all the way around through the cell walls in that food item. So, that's a bit of a misnomer. Venomoid snakes that I have seen have been, if they've been done right and that the surgery's been done correctly and all the rest of it. If they've happily and healthily and had no issues, the problem is that you do get people that are having a guard of themselves and don't necessarily remove the whole gland or they don't remove the whole guck or whatever the case is. And then you get the horror stories. I think there was some, Danny was saying to me last night that there was somebody who was bitten just recently by a cobra that was, they were keeping you legally, there was apparently a venomoid and it wasn't a venomoid. And it killed them. So, you know, I mean there's that risk involved as well. I think that if you were to the venomoid a snake, you would need to put in a pit tag. I think all of those should be pit tagged. And so that there's a chip inside that animal. So, that animal could be verified as having this year, it's been venomoided and here's this chip. And then you can scan it at whatever time it is and then go from there. But, you know, they need to be handled and treated as if they're venomous as well. You can't turn around and go, "Well, I'm going to keep this or I'm going to keep that and then not actually look after it in the right way. I'm not going to treat it. I'm not going to, you're going to pretend to handle it in such a way that I will handle it just like a friendly rat snake or something like that. Well, no, you handle it the right way and you don't have any shit. So, yeah. So, I suppose that might be a bit of a surprise. But in private hands, no, definitely no need for it, no requirement. Keep it the way they are and if you don't want one, get something that's, get something that's, if you want something that isn't venomous, get something that's not venomous and keep it that way. Yeah, crap. Get a crappet, Python. Get a crappet, Python. Yeah. Just do that. Hey, look, you know, it was funny, right? I was looking around and I got more pythons with those and I'm going to do elapids. And, you know, I'm not used to have 130, 140 elapids and two or three pythons. And now I've got, it's not quite 50-50, but, you know, I've got a hell of a lot more pythons than I ever used to, you know. But, you know, if I put them all in the box part, I don't know if she loves a venomous as well. You know, bith, that is a herb virus. So, you know, we've got plenty of those things around as well, so, yeah. Cool. So, talk about hooks and such. Is there any other equipment that's, like, a must-have in your, if you're going to keep venomous? Yes, yes. And basically, hands-off is probably the most important thing. There's so many different things that you can do when it comes to working with these things, and the way you work them and all the rest of it. I personally think what is the most important thing is a decent holding bin to put them in. When you get them out of the enclosure, you're putting them in the right place, you know. You're putting them in such a place that isn't going to cause you issues or anything like that. It's going to be safe for you to deal with those animals. Now, I use clear holding bins. Now, the whole reason for them to be clear is so that when I open up, when I put the animal into the bin, the animal basically sits there, and I can see what it's known before I open the bin lid. So, it's right at the top, I know where it is, or if it's at the bottom, I know where it is as well. So, it works pretty well. I've just put a photo in the chat there of one of the clear bins. So, that's important. Obviously, things like hooks, jiggers, which are jigger or something to use to pin snakes. They're important, feeding tongs, feeding implements, all that stuff is really important. So, there's a photo coming up with one of my tool racks. I've got a tool rack in both my quarantine room, and I've got a tool rack in the main room as well. So, the whole idea of that is that I've got various sized hooks. I've got different lengths in all the rest of the Y-cutters and tweezers and all that sort of stuff. I have all of the same stuff in the quarantine room as well, because I don't want to be taking something out of into the quarantine room, but I can't take it back out of you. So, without sterilizing any more rest of it. So, just to pay this away, it's got its own holding bins, it's got its own tools and all the rest of it to use in there. So, yeah, so clear bins to have the animals in, and then hooks, tweezers, long set of tongs. I've got a set of M1 Midwest tongs there at the end. I do not use them for handling snakes, I use them for feeding rats to big snakes. The whole idea of what I don't like about tongs is that grabbing thing, and a lot of snakes don't like that. I don't think you'd like to be grabbed in the middle of your body either by a big set of pincers and then picked up by that. I don't think you're going to be too happy in there, neither of the snakes. I try to keep all my handling is very cool karma, quite the... I know what I'm going to do, I know what I'm going to do, and how I'm going to do it. The next thing that sort of that comes across to is then when you're dealing with the animals themselves, the area that you're working in needs to be clear and free of the obstructions. So, something that's free of an obstruction, and I'll say I don't know if I'll rotate around, I'll find out in a second. I'm just putting a photo up of my walkways and stuff like that in the room. So, you can see how it's nice and broad in between the enclosures and everything there. There's not lots of room there. There's nothing that the snake can sort of catch on. You don't want the snake going around and getting in between something or underneath something or whatever the case is, because then it's just a pain in the eye to try and get it out. So, I tend to have plenty of room working where I'm working, and then from that point in time it makes it easier. So, your enclosures design is really important. The other thing that I've got inside some of the enclosures, I've got a trapbox system set up. So, I'll use trapboxes inside the enclosures, and when I'm having to do work, let's say I'm trying to remove head scales or setting snakes or anything like that, or use tubes. Have you got these tubes at all or anything like that? Have you got these tubes at all? I've seen tubes used on various venomous snakes. I don't have the need for tubes because I don't have anything that'll kill me. No. I've used them for scrubs. I've used them for scrubs. For pythons, they're awesome. I use them for pythons all the time. For probing snakes, it's brilliant. Yeah, because they feel right. Yeah, they say still. They're in the tubes. They don't move. If you've got the other thing as well, you can put it into a tube and then you can get your wife or your partner or anything like that. You may not be flashing on snakes. I'm blocking my wife as she's as snake mad as I am. That's fine. I'm helping her half the time. So, at the end of the day, it's great to have somebody else there. If you're putting that animal into a tube, you can put it into a tube and then you can walk into the other room and go, "Can you please hold this dialing?" She holds the snake in the end of the tube. She's got no risk of getting bitten or anything like that. Then you can take the other end of it and then you can hold it with one hand, hold the vent with one hand and you can put the probe in the other. That way, then you can probe the animal perfectly fine without having the animal struggling or anything like that. The other thing that I would be using tubes for as well, obviously, we don't have to worry about it here, is if you are importing animals. If you want to carefully, really carefully go over them and look for parasites or anything like that, you can do that. Also, giving injections. A great way of restraining your brain injection. If you can't move around or anything like that, it's really, really simple. Obviously, just clean up between years. Those tubes cost me $20 or $30. It wasn't like they were expensive rooming like that. For what thought they are, absolutely brilliant. The other thing that's really important, we're talking about tooling, but we're also talking about the room itself as well, if removal escapes for a big deal. You don't want anything coming out of your room. I don't know what size room you guys have got, but do you guys have sinks in your snake room? No, have you got a sink in your room? I have an offshoot, I have a sink and a side room. I'm always paranoid about stuff getting out through the bottom of the sink. What I've done in the base of my sink is I've got those sink strainers. You can put those sink strainers in. I've got one of those that sits in there. Then what I've also got, all of my vents have got mesh. It's a powder coated stainless steel metwoven mesh. Then I put the sink strainer in and then I put a piece of the mesh over the top. In the snake room, if I walk in the snake room now, in there it's got the sink strainer and then it's got the piece of mesh over the top. Something good to get out. It can't get out through the drain holes on the sink. Let me get out into the sewer system. Really, really simple. Works great. It takes two seconds. The reality of it is that if it's easy and easy to use and easy to work with, then you'll use it. If something's too hard to work with and too hard to use, you'll end up going, "I'm not going to keep using this." True. It's all about doing things the right way and setting things up the right way. I suppose the other thing that's really important is we've got extraction fans. On our extraction fans and on our air conditioners as well, they've also got mesh covers on them as well. Anything that can get out in the room, it can't actually get out of the room itself. It can't. Anywhere that goes out of the room, it can't get through. So extraction fans, same thing, same sort of deal. Around the doorways, each of the doors, the door is shut into a recess. I've got a stainless steel trim that goes around the door. That stainless steel trim that goes around the door is what the door shuts against. When you shut the door, it's shutting up against a piece of stainless steel all the way around. There's nothing that can't get out through the side of the door. There's a ridge on the bottom that the door sits onto. Then there's a rubber mat on the bottom of the door itself that runs along. So when it shuts, there's rubber that goes up against a metal seal, which means that even if something, a tiny hatchling, something smaller than a baby pretenses, gets out, then it's stuck in the room. All of the room itself, I mean, all of the cages themselves are built into the walls. So there's no way things can get behind caging, and then the racks that are in the centre of the room are on wheels. So again, this whole setup is so that it's designed that I can get in there and do what I need to do without having any issues. The door itself has signage onto the room to say that there's been a mistake inside. It's locked, and there's windows. Now, the whole idea of the window there is to prevent somebody turning around and basically going into the room and seeing, they can see me on the other side of the door. They can also see if a snake or something like that is loose on the other side of the door before they walk in. It's all of these things that we do that we should always be trying to do things throughout way. I've also decided that the door is going to be a signing board as well. So when people come into the new herper and all of that, they get to scribble a name on the door to say that they've been here so to speak. And then hopefully in a few years' time I can look back and have a few laughs and look at all the people that have scribbled their name on the door. That's cool. The first guy that wrote on the door said that he stole snakes from there. So it looks like that's going to be like a running joke now. There'll be little jokes and things like that they're going to get it put up on there. That's the whole one. Having a few laughs and things like that. At the end of the day, we can do this to enjoy ourselves as well. It's all about doing choreography. The entrance into the room, before you get into that room, you can see there's some racks and things like that on the side. Like, I don't like clutter. All of my clutter, all of the stuff that goes inside enclosures, spare food bowls, water bowls, spare tubs, etc, etc. All that sort of stuff is outside the room. I don't want it in the room where I'm working with the animals because again, it's something that's just going to get in the bloody way. So I'm trying to keep it as clear as possible. And if it's clear and all the rest of it, then it's safe. It's as simple as that. And it's all about safety. It really is because at the end of the day, you don't want to go through and get a catheter like I did. That sucks. So yeah. Boy, that guy doesn't know. So when you're actually pulling the snakes out of the enclosures, generally speaking, there's a couple of different ways. Usually, I'll hook and fail. Fast-moving alifers and all the rest of it don't tend to always sit on two hooks. So I'll hook the snake up, usually with my right hand, because I'm left-handed. And then I'll pick it up by the base of the fence, around the vent, with my left hand. And then I will take it into the bucket, and we'll into the bin, let it go into the bin, and then put the lid on the bin, and then I'll go behind the water bowls and clean the enclosure and all the rest of it. The reverse, you know, take the lid off the bin with the hook in your hand already. Lift the bin lid up, and you bring the bin lid towards you, so you're using it like a shield in case something's coming out towards you. At least you've got something to sort of push it away with, and then you'll hook the snake up, and then put it back into the enclosure. Snakes will get into a routine. If you do things the same way, and do it at the same time, and all the rest of it, they do tend to get into a routine. When they get into a routine, it does make it easier for you as well. My tubs, my tub racks, and things like that, my tubs are probably a little bit different to a lot of the tub stores you guys use. I'm just putting a photo after one of them now. Most people don't have tub racks, so they don't have lids on their tubs. Obviously, when you're dealing with venomous snakes, I like having a lid. So, you can see there, my tubs have got lids halfway, I've got a hinge on them halfway. So I can open it out, and I can flip the lid up when I want to. And that way then, I don't have an issue with just having sliding something out. If I can't see the snake in the back, at least when I open it up, I'll let it lid on the top, I can see what's going on. If I just have a conventional tub, then on sliding it out, I don't necessarily see what's going on. Do you have clear lids on purpose? Yes, so I can see through them, so I can see through. The other alternative is, and I'll say that a fair bit, is if you've got tubs like that, you use a hook. You don't pull it out with your hand, you use a hook to pull it out. So you use a hook to actually slide the tub out, if you don't have a lid on the tub. Because I built my own racks and all of that, so that I'd do it that way. I'd build them with the lid on. I find it better that way. My juvenile stuff, click. When I do my juvenile caging and things like that, my juvenile racks have to do. They've all got the lids on them, so I can pull the whole cage out, put it up onto a bench, and then I can open that up from there. And then deal with it in that way, so nice and simple. The other thing that I've got is we've always got systems as well. You'll see that there's some tubs down on the bottom of that rack there that are all upside down. Those ones that are upside down don't have animals in them. So our system is that if there's nothing inside a tub, the tub goes upside down in the rack. So I know for a fact that there's nothing in those enclosures, so I don't need to serve them or anything like that. Makes it easy. When I slide those out, the name label was on the top of the tub. So as I get it out once, I've got it out. I can see what's inside or open the enclosure. Again, working with these things is, because I've got two people working with these animals, it's a bit like a zoo system. So you need to have decent signage on nearing closures, and you need to know what's going on in there. We've got a whiteboard that sits above the sink, and any messages to each other can get written on there as well. So let's say, you're servicing enclosures, and you go, "Oh, yeah, this snake looks like it's going to have a bad shed or something like that." So we'll just write bad shed, BHP, KJX, you know. And so then we know what's going on. It works really, really well. So that works well. I suppose the other thing there as well is our caging, our heating. All of our heating is with heat cords. So the heating is an inside enclosure. So we don't have risks in those or anything like that. The enclosures, the large enclosures that are around the outside, they're all heated with tiles. So there's a heat cord that's set underneath a tile that is siliconed in place. And those tiles then basically act as your thermal sink. So the animal can get heated up by that tile and go from there. There's a service area, which is those white and vertical areas in those photos. Those service areas are where all the heating is kept. So all the cables and stuff like that are out of the bloody way and they're not sort of getting in your way. When you're dealing with things, you don't want things being in behind cords and stuff like that. And it doesn't look neat either. I like things to look neat. Lighting in there, I've got emergency lighting as well as LED light panels. So there's 30 LED light panels running down the length of the room. So it gives me nice even light all the way across. If I have a light panel shit itself, well, it doesn't matter because I've still got plenty of other lights. What I say a lot of people do in their venomous rooms is they have one single light or they have one light off the circuit. If you're working in that room and then you have a power failure and you've got a type in your hands at night, it's kind of sucky. That's pretty bad. That's good. Yeah. It's not good. So it's pretty important. You know, you're using your head torch at night and walking around your room in the head torch. Where the head torch is, you don't have to disturb the night button. Again, you don't want your batteries just to fuck out on your own like that. So we've found that to be fairly important. So we've got a lighting on a couple of different circuits and so if one circuit drops the other one, then we've got two battery power and emergency lights in there as well. So if the light, if the power drops to the room, these lights come on and then at least that gives you enough time to put the animals away and you need to get out and enough light to see what you're doing. And so you don't end up getting bitten by something. You shouldn't get bitten by it. So yeah, you know, that's all stock standard sort of stuff really. But it's stuff that you need to think about. I mean, reality is if you're dealing with a python, well, worst case scenario, you're going to cop a bite or something like that. It's just going to suck. It's not going to be great, but at the end of the day, it's not going to kill you. All right. And so, yeah. And maybe also means you don't have to get another catheter. So, you know, there's always bone in it. Yeah, you just bleed a little bit. Yeah. Oh, man. So the other thing I've got on my enclosure is on legal ventilation. Many, many encloses. I tend to see a lot of the store bought stuff and even a lot of the tubs and stuff that I see it pay for. They don't have enough ventilation in them. And that's, I think a lot of RIs are a direct result of poor ventilation in encloses, you know, stuffiness and things like that. Yeah. I mean, a lot of those tub ducts, you know, they set them up. So they're about a millimeter down from the top. And you've got a little bit of airflow across the top. All of my enclosures have airflow across the front as well. And then I have a fan in the room that will circulate some of the air as well. So I'm trying to get some air moving around, air moving around in there. And I don't tend to have the issues with RIs touch wood that I had previously because I've pushed on the ventilation side of things. You know, so maybe that's something for other people to think about. So, yeah, that's basically it. And that regard and regards to caging. Obviously, you need to have a second means of closing the enclosure. Whether that be a pin or a lock or a catch or a tag or something. Don't just have something there that just shuts. You know, a sliding glass for a sliding acrylic door that doesn't have a lock on it. You want a pin or something like that that actually pins through and locks that enclosure into place. If you follow what I'm saying, you know what I mean? It just prevents you from potentially leaving an enclosure open. And then if you leave something open, then you've got to try and find it again. And that's always sort of sucky. I'm trying to think what else. That's bad. In that regard, feeding, obviously, you feed exactly the same way you do. With bison, except you don't use your hands when you're offering them food. Offer them to put it on the end of tongs. Don't stuff that up. I may have fed a death out of it with my fingers. Oh my god. I'll end up having it. Had a death out of the hang of my fingers. I literally didn't mean to feed it with my fingers. I opened the cage and I just had to think in my hand. And I went to throw it in. And as I've gone to throw it in, my fingers have gone down towards the enclosure. And it's bitten me on the finger as I've dropped it in. So yeah, that, again, kind of sucked. I mean, it sounds like I get bitten a lot. I really don't. But I've been doing it for a long time and I've made plenty of mistakes. And I like a lot of people that do keep venomous. They don't necessarily, even though I know it's a stuff up and I'm embarrassed by my stuff ups, I'd rather tell people about it because at least that way, if I tell them about it, then hopefully they can not make the same mistake that I fucking made. So that's my case. Jim Harrison posted something up on Facebook a little while ago. He was using a tube. And he had the tube shatter in his hand. Well, Cassabel, a big 6 foot Cassabel in a tube. And they used the tubes there to restrain the body of the snakes while they're milking them. And so the tubes snatched and then he was holding on a very unhappy Cassabelle and ended up getting both barrels into his hand. And I say, I mean, these things happen. I mean, I never thought to look at the integrity of my tubes before I used them. I do now. I do double checker to make sure that there's no blisters or cracks or anything like that. I mean, they're acrylic, so they can break. So that's something to keep in mind. Go for me. A few other things. I mean, I use, I weigh my snakes fairly regularly as well. When I'm weighing them, I use Ziploc bags. So I'll place them into a Ziploc bag and weigh them. I like keeping an idea of weights on my animals for growth rates. So I'm just weighing a death out of there in a bag. So all of these things are, again, using a clear bag when you're weighing things. So you can see what's going on. You don't put your fingers at risk or anything like that when you're doing it. So all of these sort of management things are fairly important. When I'm weighing large snakes, I use large Ziploc bags. As opposed to when I'm weighing pythons where I'll use, when I'm out in the field, I'll use, you know, pillowcases and things like that, which aren't so much of an issue. So all of those sorts of things. Trap boxes, I'll use trap boxes in some of the faster-moving enclosures of faster-moving snakes. This is a trap box you can make up for about $3 made out of a couple of margarine containers. Very, very simple. So that's it, shut. And that's it, open. So basically what you do is you have your margarine container and you have a whole cut in the side of it. And then when you want to go in and actually service the enclosure, you just put another margarine container over the top. It nestles over the top of it, shuts it up, and then you can just, this snake can't get out, stuck. Cleaning in closure. Now that works really, really well with really flighty colubrids and really flighty pythons. That's well, works fantastic with those. Now, sometimes you get those really nervous, those nervous hashlings and things like that, that really don't like being touched and they get really runny and stuff like that. Well, you're not having to touch the babies at all then. You're not stressing them out. You literally lift them out of the enclose, you can clean the enclosure, put them back in, and they literally don't know what happened and they don't stress out at all. So I've done that a fair bit when I've had, um, luck at a python that a problem feed is. I'm perfect for them. You know, they go in, they feel secure, and that way they're hard to them is always secure. Um, right, you know, snakes, snakes use to thrust those hides, if you're ripping those hides out, and then they don't tend to use them. There was a study done, um, out of the university of New South Wales on working with tiger snakes and cover. Um, so what they did is they had these tiger snakes that lived out of pitch, and they had three pieces of cover inside these pits. Now, what they did is that every day they used to go up, and they used to lift the cover that had, um, the cover that was on the left, and the cover that was on the right, and they used to always leave the one in the middle. I wouldn't touch it. Um, even if the ones on the left of the right had better thermal regulatory properties for those snakes, okay, after a while they would use the ones on the left or the right that only used the one in the middle, because they learned that one in the middle was actually safe. The other two, because they get flipped over, those pieces of cover weren't safe to them. So the animals stopped using those pieces of cover on the side. Um, so, you know, all these little interesting things. So, I mean, if you can make sure that that animal feels safe in its, in its hide, especially if you're trying to acclimatize, um, something that's just come over from Indonesia or something like that. You know, you're trying to crack your mocha and scrubs. There's someone who's got all the hammer, hares grubs. They're just going to try and crack those. Um, you know, it's all about looking after these animals in such a way that you, you're de-stressing them as much as possible. Um, and making them feel safe and secure. And if they feel safe and secure, then hopefully they'll breed. Um, so, I mean, there's, there's plenty of things where it's just standard, standard husbandry stuff that you just move across from, from working with, with pythons across small arses. Um, the big difference is, is just no touchy touchy. You know, don't, don't put your hand in the place. I can just be scared of that. Um, yeah, that makes sense. The other, the other times that I've had some close call, but I haven't. Touch wood, as I, as I say this. Um, taking photos, I'll use a hundred mil macro lens when I'm taking my photos. Um, obviously you need to be a little bit cautious when you're getting close to, to, to, to bite aesthetics for the camera. Um, you don't want to have a snake hanging off your finger while you're trying to focus on, on the camera. Um, so, you know, again, it's something you just got to be careful with. Um, but invariably, I mean, you, you learn, you learn to do all of these things, and then maybe you sort of become sick of nature to you. Um, the bagging procedure, the way I bag the animals, I'll put some photos under that. So if you're putting an animal into a bag and taking an animal out of a bag, it's a little bit different. Um, this is a sequence of moving a brown snake into a bag. Now, brown snakes, uh, in some ways they're probably nastier than type ants. Um, incredibly fast-moving snakes, um, very, very nasty. But if you give them a big black hole to go into in front of you, they, they tend to go straight into the big black hole because they're, they're more afraid of you than you are of it. If you give them that opportunity in, they go, um, so, a little bit of, um, a little bit of, sort of help with the hook and, and then they'll go usually. Um, now the photos there. Now, getting them out of the bag, um, is, is pretty much the same. I've got safe corners on my bag, so I've got a zip tie in the corner of the bag there, of each of the bags, and that zip tie holds off the section of that bag now. Just because a snake can't get to that when you pick that end of the bag up, it can't bite you through the bag. Plenty of people get bitten through bags, um, which is quite a bad thing. Um, when I'm tying the bag up is I will twist the bag up so that the snake can't, um, can't get out, can't, can't get out of the bag, and then I'll put the hook across the, across the twist, and then I'll tie it up. So by putting that hook across the, the twisted area, that means that the snake can't go up into that, that top of the bag, um, while I'm tying it up. So it keeps it safe, so, I think you can see that further there. Yeah. Let's go. Then, um, again, I mean, you guys can put these up and, and show people that. Um, and then it will drain you over. Pulling, when you're pulling the snake out of the bag, again, you hook across, you cut your ties off, and then you can pick it up on the sew corner. And the sew corner is just there in a second. Um, and then it allows you to then pick that bag up and then you can either put it into the hoop or, or you can do what you need to do there. So, if that animal is then contained and you're not having any issues. Um, again, you can use exactly the same procedures when you're dealing with big nasty weapons as well, and you don't want to get bit by, by a retic or a scrubby or anything like that. Again, same thing. Or use scrubbies. Or use nasty. I've got some really nasty evidence there here. Um, which are King Horni at the moment because there's, there's issues there with, if that takes on me. Um, but, oh, I can go into that quickly if you like, but I mean, at the end of the day there, I mean, I'll use them because they're big and nasty and they're strong. Um, and, and that way then it stops people from, um, from wanting to reach in and pick them up. Um, so it's a good thing to train them on. Uh, train them on before you get them onto the venomous snakes a little bit with some of those things. Um, so, yeah. Uh, no, no, no, no, go ahead. No, you're all gone. I was just going to ask you, I know we're talking venomous, but you, you pick my interest with the amethystina. Uh, yeah, what's up with that? King Horni. Why do I not use King Horni? Uh, yeah. Okay. So, um, Bennett and Barker did their paper in 2000 on, on, on, on scrubs. Um, it was a good paper. It was a great, it was a good paper. They did really well with their Indonesian stuff with Tracey A. and, and, and, and, class of letters and, and all the rest of it. Um, but they got to, when they got onto the Torres Strait Islands, and I was the only Torres Strait Islands in Australia, there was a name that was, um, done in 1931 called, um, or, um, really a karkite. Um, and that's described from one of the islands of the Torres Strait. Now the Torres Strait, if you're not familiar, is the group of islands that goes between the Queensland mainland, so the main land Australia, and you're getting it, so there's a dot, dot of the main, an array of islands in there. Um, so that name is actually earlier than by two years than King Horni. So chances are that the Australian animals are, if they're the same as the ones that are on the Torres Strait, are going to be karkite, as opposed to King Horni. Okay. Um, but they did not examine any animals from that island in their study. So they just assumed that karkite was a synonym of an estina, and not a synonym of King Horni. Okay. So it would either mean that the, it either means in Australia we actually have two species of scrubbies, because Torres Strait Islands is part of Australia. Um, so we either have King Horni and, and karkite, or we have King Horni, or we don't have King Horni, or we only have karkite, or we have amethystina. So at the moment, because they haven't really answered that question, we don't know. So at the moment, we'll say, we'll say that we've got, continue to say that we've got amethystina, and that's why our pogger has, has stuck with amethystina, as opposed to picking up using King Horni or karkite, because there's just not the evidence there. The other problem is as well, is that when you read that paper, they don't actually give a clear key on how to tell the difference between King Horni, karkite, and amethystina. It just said, if it's from here, it's this, but they didn't examine that, and that's the problem. So that's why there's a number of people, myself included, are refusing to use King Horni for, for the Australian scrubbies. Until there's more information done, and we know what's going on on the Torres Strait Islands, we'll, we'll, we'll stick with using amethystina for now. So I personally think that most likely it's going to be, karkite, I, I doubt that there's, there's been enough pressure on, on evolution in these evolutionary lineage of scrub poisons, that there's been enough to speciate a new species of python between the Torres Strait Islands and Australia. So I think that the Australian animals will probably end up being karkite. Okay. If that makes sense. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. So it's just a lack of, a lack of research. Until there's further research, I'm just going to err on this lot of caution. But Australian scrubbies different to the ones in, in southern Papua? Yes. Most likely they are. It's just of whether or not the name should be karkite, or should it be King Horni? We don't know. If, if the animals on, on Durham Island are actually amethystina, then that's fine. That's, that's okay. It means that we have amethystina in Australia, which are the popular ones on, on the Torres Strait Islands. And then we also have King Horni, which are from, from originally from near Kent. So then the Australian ones will end, in fact be King Horni. It's just a fact of, the fact is, is that, that paper on the scrubbies was pretty vague when it came to the Australian specimen, as opposed to the really good work that they did on the Indonesian animal. So, if that, and I don't, I don't know if I'm really any more of the Somali now, I'd also, I've got to work sort of stuffed up. But anyway, we'll go from there. Yeah. Yeah. Ugh. Taxonomy. Fun, fun, fun. Yeah, right? Yeah. It's a never ending, never ending clusterfuck. Yeah. Well, you know, in Australia we had, in the last week, we've had three new geckos describe. And our rainforest dragons have gone from being, gone a saphilis to Hipsaluris, and now they're in a loaf of sores, as their new gents that are in their sweets. So, you know, someone said to me, why do they change them all the time? Oh, because they're learning more. You know, I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, I don't mind these changes coming through. Um, yeah. Change is fine. As long as they really do the work that they need to do. And, you know, the more I see and more read about some of these things is the more I learn that they sort of sometimes cut a few corners that they shouldn't necessarily cut. Um, but, you know, I mean, look, at the end of the day, I mean, hopefully they'll revisit it and go back through. And go back through and sort out those couple of, couple of little things, and then we can, we can put that issue to bed then and go forward on either using king corn or, or clock or, I suppose. So, yeah. Yeah. Cool. That's cool though. Yeah. Yeah. Same thing with the white look options as well. You know, I mean, you look at the white look. People say, oh, it's black face white. No, it's not really. It's named. It is named. Yes. I don't, I don't, I don't particularly want to use the name, but it, but it's not. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I'll, I'll put you this way. Mirrod and Alice isn't the name for it. That's probably the way I've started. The way I say it. It's not the way I applied to Mirrod and Alice. It never will be. It can't break. No. Okay. Because, you know, that, that paper that was done by Henrik Kaza. And, you know, it's a great paper and all the rest of it, but it's a viewpoint. That's all it is. It's not a ruling by the ICZN, which are the guys that actually rule on these names. So, until there's a ruling from the ICZN to say that we're not using that person's names, then we've got to use those names that are actually correct. And Mirrod and Alice isn't the correct name. You know, if, if that person described that animal in 2000 and a Mirrod and Alice was described in 2007, you've got to use the name that's got, got precedence. You've got to use the earlier name. And that just happens to, to starch with H. And, you know, I, I can't see people using that name. So, I think people will continue to use the name Blackface. Why, it's called a Wall Street. Yeah, they're just going to, that's the best way to get around it. It's like, no, it's a gold one. It's really not the black one. It's really not. I just like saying that I'm going to green python or, or I've got a, I'm going to call Karen out of now rock condros. You know? Can we? That's awesome. But, um, I, I like the, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I told you, you crossed a ruffy with the green tree. It's the battle, Contra. So, Didn't that happen? I thought that happened. No, you're going to be a little bit more. What happened? No, you're gone. No. I think someone, I think that someone did that in Sydney. I haven't played that in Sydney. I don't think someone did that in Sydney. Oh, what's going on now? What are you doing? Don't, don't. 10 years ago. I'll blow it back. Don't do it. Oh, I haven't got pictures. Oh, thank God. I haven't got pictures. Okay. I haven't got pictures. I just heard, I heard a while ago that was done in Sydney. So, um, whether or not that actually happened or not, I, I don't really know. And I've told, I've told numerous people because, uh, somehow I, I get all the roughy questions from random people here. Um, yeah. It's, they're always like, what do you think the crosses would be? I'm like, listen, if you cross a rough scale with anything under the sun, it would end the rough scales, follow through, then everybody will breed a rough scale to anything. But if nothing, if it's not a rough scale on the other end, no one's going to care. No one's going to get too shit about it. It's going to be a funky looking green tree python. And that's it. And nobody's going to care. So it depends on what, it depends on what Tom of the north. I thought you look at it. Cause I wonder, I wonder if they, yeah. So do you want to change color? I'm like, why are these change color? They do. They really do. Even though I have them like inside and there's no like sunlight. But they're, they're, they're like a lighter brown during the daytime. And then at night they're just like a dark kind of like brownish red. And they're, I. Yeah. Well, brighter at night time when they're scary. See, my. Oh. Oh. In the roof of my, I'll go back to my room here for a second. Which I'm pretty bad off because I spent a fucking shit right at the time building. Um. In my, in my rooms, I've got, um, what do you call it? I've got, um, I put windows into the ceiling. Um. Oh, I've got moon phasers and things like that in the ceiling there. Now. Oh man. You can actually see that, see that little light bright light thing there. It's a window up to the sky. The roughy cages are directly below that, right? So you can see the roughy cage there that are sitting there up. Um. So those roughies, they get like a perfect day night cycle, right? And they go up and they actually bask in the sunlight. And a lot of the stuff will actually, it's funny. Where the sun, when the sun's actually hitting in those enclosures, the snakes will often actually curl up underneath the sun. So maybe they're picking up different wavelengths a lot out of the, that's coming out of that full spectrum lighting going through the, through the windows. Um. So they'll use that, but then I walk into the room at night because the roof is, you know, black at the Ace of Spades night. Um. Yeah. You'll walk in there. I'll walk in there with a head torch on. I'll go in and I'll look at the roughies and they're gone from these, these dark brown, fairly low contrast animals to all the silver coming out and just looking absolutely amazing. Um. So I suppose that then begs the question is, if they're hybridised with something else, do they then, or will they then in fact actually have, um, will they change colour at night or the hybrids? Hmm. Like the roughies do. I don't know. I'm not doing it though. If that would be. So I'm not, I can't do it. So I would say that someone else should. I would say that, um, you don't really see that like I haven't noticed that with that. No. Well, I noticed that IJ is kind of do the same thing. Um, but when you do I, IJ crosses, I don't see that. Oh, okay. All right. So, oh. He's already still it. Yeah. Oh, and Kelly's out from being like driving brand during the day. It's like silver and brown at night. It's really, really stunning in those. I don't know why, but I do. Hopefully, hopefully I get to play with him in a couple of weeks. So that's awesome. Yeah. Hopefully. Hopefully you can bring him down. Um, we're, we're, there's a few of us getting talks. Um, and we're going from there while we're giving these talks. Hopefully he's, um, he's going to bring one of them down. So if he brings one of them down, I'll call him that I've got to get photos. Yes. Yeah. So if you guys get all these, the, if MPI chat starts getting all these photos. And we say, you know, giving you guys a bird while I'm holding on. I'll reply to them. Well, I, and it's the funniest thing. Cause like, I know when the Australians are going off on the, on the, uh, chat, because all of a sudden he'll be like, what is it like four in the morning here? And my phone starts vibrating across my table. What's going on? I'm like, Scott is just blowing pictures out of nowhere. And of course now, like everybody else is coming. I think I'm like, you damn Australians and your time differences. It's like, you know, but it's, of course that I'm like, uh, what the, ooh. And then I'm now I'm up at four in the morning looking at pictures. Going like, it's awesome. So yeah. Yeah. Oh, you know, it's so good. It's so good. So good for a bit of a laugh. Yeah, you know. Exactly. Oh, fine. I'll sleep when I'm dead. So it's, yeah, yeah. Well, that's good. You know, we can always, we can always worry that they can track you. Um, yeah. Yeah. You're just fucking wild. I mean, the thing is that what I find really interesting is looking at some things and then going, how different is that compared to, or how similar is that compared to what's going on over, over there. You know, there's all these, you know, there's things that are very different and there's things that are very similar and it's, it's, it's, you know, it's all not quite the same as any time. That's always a bit different. So, um, so what I might do is I'm going to put up some photos of some fuck ups. Um, oh, that might be interesting. Um, let's all lose our appetite now. So, this is a photo. The first one I'm going to put up is a photo of, um, serum sickness. So, yeah, that, that is a beautiful look. Oh. What the hell is going on with the legs? So that's an, that's an allergic reaction. Oh, they're not my legs. They're not my legs. They're not my legs. Um, so that was due to a block from the death arrow. Um, is that an allergic reaction to the serum or to, uh, to the serum or to, um, almost? Okay. Um, oh, Jesus. This is a mild one. So you can see all that purple there. He ended up losing. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Scott, there was this, yeah, I don't know who it was here, but it was some guy who posted online. He got bit by like a rattlesnake or something and he kept posting on Facebook the progression of the bone in his finger. Yeah. And I'm out in the body wash day out of the straight. Yeah. It's dissolving. And I'm like, what the hell is wrong with you? And he's like, oh, you know, next three days it'll probably be going. I'm like, your hand is dissolving. It's like, you know, there's like, like what the hell is that? Like, I assume you have some really weird venomous people over in Australia. Yeah. Oh, look at that. Have you guys heard of a goblin and I have a Neville Burns before? Maybe you might have heard of him. I know he's come over there a couple times. I think so. Yeah. Neville's a good mate of mine. And anyway, so I was, oh, I was doing what I did more. Well, I laugh a book not too long ago. I said, oh, I want to fight on your hand, Neville. And he goes, oh, yeah, no worries. And he put down his left hand. And he goes, yeah, take a photo of that. And I'm like, not that one. I want to take a photo of your other hand. And so here's a photo of your other hand. And I said to him, he goes, he goes, well, what do you want to take a photo of that one? It's missing a bloody finger. And I said, well, you know, I tell paperwork. You know, it's not always fucking roses. But, you know, that was from a red belly black. And that isn't that bad apparently. You know, apparently we call them not too bad. Yet the gourd in anybody's finger. I call them not too bad. That's reasonably right. On the bad scale, that's kind of up there. You're missing a part of your body. Oh, yeah. The same time. I mean, you could also have something like this. And this would suck. No, I don't want to bite like that. Ooh. Oh my. Oh my. That's from a scrubby apparently. See, this is why I don't want scrubs anymore. It's like right there. Right there. I'm good. Don't pull away. I'm good. Don't pull away. Don't fight it. I've been chewing on you until it's done. Then bread off. Oh. Don't pull away. No, no, a credit card. Damn. Slide a credit card in between them. And that way then you can solve. Actually, I'll hold some. You guys heard of one more spicker. He's a boy from India. There's a lot of stuff with Cobra. He did this 1 million snake bites thing. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I'll bank fire under and all that stuff. Yeah, no, no, no. Wait, he's saying, he's won a fucking Emmy dude. Like, he's a fucking cool dude. You know, the first time I've ever been out in the spring. I've never been out in the field with a guy who's won a Emmy. You know? They're pretty cool. Anyway, so he was telling me about working with King Cobras. And King Cobras, they designed to eat snakes. They mainly have snakes. So they got this incredible draw pressure time. What they ended up doing is they carry acrylic discs in their pocket. So if they were to bite them, they had these acrylic discs. And they could slide the acrylic disc between the person's hand and the snake's jaws. So they could separate them off. So if you then get their hand out without, um, without bloody ripping their hands out the bits. And I was thinking about that. I've made up a set and I'm going to have a set in my snake room now. Um, so that if I get bitten by a python or something like that, I can slide these acrylic discs in. And then I can actually get my hand out without tearing it for fucking shit. Um, so I think it's an awesome idea. Um, yeah. Um, so anyway, so going back to the, going back to the scariness. Um, so I'll put a photo up now of a, of a bite that I copped. Um, so I think we'll do it this way. Alright, so that, that, this is about 15 minutes after the bite. Um, now this is from something that's mildly venomous. I'm not meant to really do anything to you. Um, I was a bit younger and better back then when this happened. So you can see my, my ring finger there. Oh my. Oh wow. This is quite swollen. And I'm sort of giving you the comparison there. You think, oh yeah, so alright, this isn't too bad at that point in time. And then about five minutes later, I started feeling a bit itchy. And now, I, I didn't think it was too bad at that point. Um, you can say my arm broke. Oh shit. You're getting into highs. Oh shit. And I'm thinking, oh yeah, that kind of sucks. And then, I was like, oh, I feel really itchy now. And then, that happened. This doesn't fake people out. I fucking don't know what we were. The mahalo. The mahalo. The hell. The hell. Now we're in, we're fucking 250 kilometers from anywhere. I'll wear it in the scrub. So, I'm, I'm starting to freak out a little bit at this point. I would. But I wasn't, I wasn't telling people because I was struggling to break. Alright. Um. Oh, good. And then, this happened. Um, so it'll come up in a second. Do, do, do, do. Okay. You look like you just got punched in the face several times. Yeah. So, my eyelids have now swollen and are shutting. My lips have gone blue. My nose and, my nose and all that stuff. My whole sinuses are completely blocked. And my airway is closing at that point in time. Okay. Oh yeah. Don't panic. Yeah. You keep calm. So, I'll as well. I'm going, I'm going in an flight. Holy crap. Yeah. Kind of fucking sucks. Um. 20 minutes later. 20 minutes later. I calm myself right down. I'm just, just sort of concentrated on my breathing. 20 minutes later. I'm still feeling like shit, but I'm nowhere near as bad. Um. Yeah. And then 16 hours after the bite, I'm not dealing with anaphylaxis anymore. Like, oh, really swollen it. Um. So, that wasn't too bad. I mean, that didn't hurt. That was all right. Just got stuck in the rest of it. It made it really difficult catching snakes. When I, when I get to that point. So, I've gone from looking like death to, to sort of coming back to half, half normal. Um, at that point in time, I said, no, fuck, I don't know. I still, let's go chasing more snakes. Um. Well, I'm like, so we went out and started chasing snakes again. The problem was, is I kept trying to grab shit with my right hand, and my hand couldn't close. It was too swollen, but that kind of fucking sucks. I ended up going to the drink because I couldn't grab onto a, um, a tree branch as I was going along. I tried to grab a, a brown snake. I grabbed a brown snake by the tail. And as I've gone, I grabbed, I grabbed the brown snake. That was fine, but I lost my footing. And as I've gone to grab a tree to stop me falling into the river, my hand didn't close around the tree. And so I ended up going into the river with the brown snake on my left hand. Um, and then, so we were both in the water. I ended up letting go of the brown snake and then it's from across the other side of the river. And then I pulled myself back out. Um, you know, funny game here. This is Jason's body snakes. Um, we ended up going, we ended up going into a McDonald's later on that night. And I put my hand down on the counter. And the lady at the counter was just freaking out. She couldn't work out why there was this person that had one normal sized hand and one hand that was like three times as far as normal. And like, I'm just talking to her like a normal. She just like, she kept looking at my hand. I said, Oh, yeah, it's a hand. You know, it's not really. It's not really a, it's a big answer. I just got bitten by a snake and that freaked her out even more. Um, and oh, yeah, it was the end of it. So kind of games, basically. I'm just kind of thinking, what else I've got to use it. Obviously then I've got things like facie-automy shows, facie-automy stuff and all that sort of stuff as well. Um, you've got seen a facie-automy before. Same side over there. Uh, no. So this was from a good-boom by the whole. That's the facie-automy. Yeah, I've seen those. Yeah. Oh, God. Had a knife of your bones. I want to keep your bones, but I sort of like mine. I like my stuff, you know. Oh, man. Holy crap. That's amazing. They sliced the skin because of the swelling. And basically it's like skinning somebody's arm. Oh, my God. That's from all this stuff. Say you end up losing the thumb. Jesus. Really? It's black. It's not supposed to be that way? Yeah, he end up losing his thumb, man. Right. Um, so, yeah. Yeah, I've got to hate the way sort of things. Yeah, and then it's good to actually look through them because it sort of wakes you up a little bit and goes, "Yeah, I don't think I want to get whacked again." Yeah, it can't be whacked. Yeah. Maybe we should avoid this. Yeah. How? Hmm. So then you get ones like this. So you can get the look like nothing. Um, can you see that? So that's right. Yeah, the two punctures. That's the bite from it. That's from a bite from an Easter brown snake. They almost killed that person. Really? They almost killed that person. So, you know, you go to the other extreme as well, where, you know, a little mile bite like that almost kills someone. So, um, wow. I think, yeah. So, it kind of sucks. Um, well, that's what we've got there. Um, yeah, that's interesting, kind of. So, those snakes don't get that big, but then you get some things like that that do get large. So it's measuring a big, milder snake. Um, I don't know. What? Big. Snakes over there. Um, one thing. I don't. It works really well. If you hold it by the head, you can hold it by the head and you get somebody else to, to take the tail. And I use it. I usually do it on tiles. You make it nice and easy and just put the, the nose at one end of the grout line of the tiles. And then you lift the whole body up and then you wait for the snake to sort of relax and you feel a little sort of stretch out. And then you can bring it down, you can put a mark on the tiles at the other end. With the pencil, then you can just measure it straight out. And then you can just use the grout line of the tiles to fix the snake's really straight. So that's measuring a big, milder snake there. Um, he was 2,700 millimeters long. And about six kilos. So, um, he was sucked if he beat your man. Um, but yeah. You know, I'm going to put up some photos. Me and I'll follow away from, go away from the sort of gallery of horrors there. Um, we'll put up some photos on these things I was talking about before. Um, so, there we go. So, you're saying why you want to keep venomous snakes? This is why you want to keep venomous snakes. These are probably one of the prettiest snakes going out there. Um, and you don't need a morph when they look this good. Um, when they're eventually the size that it wants to lay out. Yeah. It's so natural that it's really bright. That is for that fact. That's a collet snake. Okay, that's one of the ones that we recommend. There's actually being a good introduction to venomous snakes here in Australia. Um, beautiful. Okay. Um, pretty, pretty, not too bad when it comes to toxicity. Um, you know, myotoxins, neurotoxantematoxins, that sort of thing. But it's nowhere near as bad as it could be. Um, you know, chances are you're going to know about it. And it's going to really knock you around, but it probably won't kill you. Um, you know, the other option, if you're not going to keep those, is the first one, the other one that a lot of people use, uh, these things, which are probably my favorite venomous snakes. Um, these are line ball with, with coastal tie pants. For me, it's being my favorite. Um, absolutely gorgeous. And you can't really get past black and red. Um, so, you know, that's a, a nice, a fairly nice example of a rubella black snake. Um, again, not that toxic. Fairly, fairly laid back, fairly well, well, well managed for the snakes. Um, you can go from there. Um, where is that thing? Do, do, do, do. Is that what you're looking for in a beginner venomous? Something that's not very toxic and is a little bit more laid back, you know? Yeah. Yeah, you want something that is not, it's not a failure also. Um, this can do it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, look, you can't, look, don't get me wrong. I mean, you're going to know about it if it puts you. Um, but it's, it's not, not like getting bitten by a tie pan or something like that. Uh, this is a spot of black. This is the one that gave me all that growth in, in back in 1996. Um, they come in a few different color phases. That one happens to be a black one. Um, she's, uh, you know, bloody nice. Um, this is a pretty one. Oh, my gorgeous. Absolutely gorgeous. Uh, and then you get these things that will grow by a spot of black. Oh, oh, and, and might, they're lovely animals. Um, yeah. This is a red face spot of black that I'm putting up now. Um, yeah. These are, these are absolutely stunning. Um, yeah. And, and one of my favorites, nice. Um, there we go. So we go here. Um, so I think you've got things like Mulga's nice as well. Mulga's great. Obviously they, they're venomous, fairly toxic and, and can, can make a bit of a mess here. Um, yeah. And they're not always the happiest things either. These are actually like bumpy one. Um, expressing its displeasure with me, with me taking photos of it. Um, they just shine, he's showing me these things there and telling me that he makes business. Um, they've got some incredible variation there in their coloration. You go from these things that are sort of like a pale brown or rich red brown to, to something that is almost completely reticulated. Um, to fire, almost like a fiery orangey red. Um, which, you know, they're absolutely stunning animals. So these are all exactly the same species. It's just locality variation, um, in their coloration there. Um, and then you've got things like, uh, buttless snakes and stuff like that, which are, uh, indeed gorgeous as well. Um, black and yellow, bright black and yellow things. Um, the hood out one, the cobra. Uh, I think that's subtle color. Um, what's that? Yeah, so that's, uh, the hood up like a cobra. Oh yeah, a lot of our stuff will do that. Um, they'll get the shits and then they'll fan out and do a lot of sort of stuff. Um, what else have we got? So then, the next thing that a lot of people sort of get into is they keep their hatters. Um, you know, and their hatters are just amazing animals. Um, I posted a photo up earlier today, um, of a, uh, one of a, a new morphodefaner that's just, um, just been born in the last couple of weeks by a guardian in Victoria. Um, a completely patentless death add up, which is just amazing and getting gorgeous. Um, so that is gorgeous. That is gorgeous. It's very gorgeous. It's just insane. Um, so that's pretty cool. So I'll, I'll post up some photos or some ados there. Um, ados have gone through, uh, a fair bit of taxonomy sort of work. Again, our mate Dan in, uh, Dan in Victoria is their favorite snake. So he's obviously had a pretty good go at those and, and completely messed that up and confused that for a lot of people. Um, so, you know, as we, as we go there through that, it makes things a little bit difficult. Um, but yeah, I mean, we've got albino death adders here and a few other bits and pieces. Um, so yeah, but I mean, it's just a variation in, in the adults themselves. It's, it's pretty good. So that's an albino there. Um, they usually look sort of something like that. So they're quite different. You know, you do get light ones and things like that as well, but, um, you know, they, they sort of variation, they're the favorite of variation. Um, obviously the cow is pretty good in that. Death adders are so, death adders are so pretty. And the head on them is just freaking awesome looking, but I can't, I just can't do it. It's like, no. Really? You might as well put this side off. You might as well tell me if I know. Uh, dude, no, see, I'll say no still, but uh, it's still cool looking. That's cool. Still no, but no, it's, uh, really no cool looking. You sure? Yeah. Can't, can't do it. Cannot do it. You know, we'll mother nature. Mother nature is a bitch. Look at that. How good is that? See that, but look, it looks like a freaking dragon. That's just, it's off of the foot. No. Can't do it. No. Won't do it. They're evil looking. You're thinking about it. In a good way. In a good way. Okay. Yeah. It doesn't matter if you're thinking about it. I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about it. It's freaking one of them. It ain't gonna happen. Right. But gee. And then you got these things, which, you know, they seem to be a real divide for people. Really? I want to say, you want to, oh, I say one of these with the same pattern as the logo. Oh, is that the, is that the scaleless? That's the scaleless. Yeah. Yeah. Looks like it's my day. Looks like it's stock. They were really weird. It's like a venomous. They look weird. Yeah. It's like a venomous. They look weird. Um. It's like a venomous. Is there one better piece of spandex? Oh. Is it the ones that are half? It looks like it. Yeah, it's right down the middle. Half. Yeah. Half. Yeah. It's not my animal. Um. I didn't take photos of it. Someone else took photos of it. Yeah. It was called Rodney split right down the middle. Right. Right. So one side of the body is scaled and the other side isn't. Um. Which is just fucking insane. Um. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah. You got these ones as well. So those wells are going to post up the black and red things. They also have a gold morph as well. So there's a gold morph of one. Um. So instead of having the black, they've got the orange there. Um. It looks like it's actually a morph. Um. In that it's incomplete dominant by the look of it. Um. So. Yeah. Um. Every now and then you open up the enclosure. And then you see this. Um. And then you sit back. I've got to get all these things feeding, which kind of sucks. Um. So you've got that there. So that's a litter of babies there from mum. Um. So they're fairly small and difficult to get going and that kind of sucks. Um. But you get there in the end. Um. So that's. Uh. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Which is sort of what it's all about. You know, it's a little bit different to dealing with bythons where you say I'm splitting. Now you can see she's, she's pushing out of the, the memory of SAC there. To, to take her first breath. Um. Uh. So sitting there and actually watching that was pretty cool. Um. I watched her. Um. Um. Which was a pretty cool thing. I've never actually watched snakes get birth before. So, you know, you watch her have the contractions and all the rest of them. And she lists her tail. And then suddenly there's a one or two babies snakes sitting there. Um. So that was pretty cool. Then. Cool. This is an albino. Common death at us. So this is a different species to the other albino that we, that I posted up before. Um. Um. And I don't know what happened to those animals. So that's a, an old slide there of mine that I took back in 1998, I think. Um. And apparently the guy doesn't have them anymore. So that's a bit of a shame. Um. Where a nice sort of saying what happened to those in the end. Um. Yeah. So how do you. Yeah. Um. So how the hell do you deal with mom and the bunch of babies all at the same time? Do you just like open the cage, hook and remove mom and then focus on the little guys or like is it like open the door and everybody's running all over the place? Well, so usually when I, when I've got stuff that I know it's gravid, I'll heavily grab it, I basically turn around and I'll get the, I'll put the female into a tub. Um. And that way then I can, I can deal with it fairly easily rather than open door enclosures. Um. I mean you can do that too, but it's, but it's not so bad. Um. And then I will have their, I'll be keeping an eye on here and then I'll check the cage twice a day. Um. First thing in the morning before I get up for work, get up. Sorry. Just after I get up in the morning and then just before I go to bed. Um. So I, I'll know roughly when she's due and then I'll go through from that and check on a daily basis. Um. You know, if, um, and then from that, uh, we'll go from there and then basically just hook out the female once she's finished giving birth. I'll go into another tub just in case there's any stragglers and then go from there and then start, um. Then start hooking out in each individual baby and then I'll set up in each individual baby in its own tub as I go. So I'll have all of the tubs sitting there next to me and then as I go as I hook out a baby, baby goes in, I'll sex it and then I will ride on it. What species it is and what sex it is. And then I will put a, I've got, you know, those removable, um. Book labels, you know, you put the labels inside if you've been eating or something like that. So I'll put those on all the enclosures and then when it's eating voluntarily, I'll pull it off. So if it's got a tag on it and I know, I know it's not, it's got a tag on it, one of my most tags on it. It means that it's not feeding voluntarily for me. So that means that I've got to fuck about with it and get it going. Um, as soon as it's eating voluntarily, that tag comes off and go from there. Um, one of the things I use for them is a technique called reflex feeding. Um, reflex feeding is something that you use just behind the head of the death adder. Um, going about maybe the width of the head back from the head, or a little bit further, I will rub a pinky at that point. I think a small, a very small pink mouse on that point. And what that will do is it'll get the death adder to turn around and it will bite what is fishing it off. Um, and it will hold onto that pinky and then just go through and just swallow it. Um, so it works really, really well. It works well for, um, oh, you get jungle seeding that way and bread all seeding that way as well. You sort of, you tap them into the side and then they spin around, they grab it and then you freeze. And you don't want to breathe or move or anything like that because you want it to eat it voluntarily, you know. Um, so that's sort of what it's all about. Um, so using that reflex feeding, it works pretty well for adders. Um, otherwise you've just got to grab them by the head and then shove a pinky down there, throw it and go from there. And just avoid the fangs as you do it. Um, with death adders and titans and stuff like that, it's a pain in the bum because the heads are so mobile and flexible. Um, it can be a bit of a shit. Um, so here's, I'll put up some copper heads now. Um, I don't keep copper heads anymore. Where I live in Queensland, it's too warm for them. Um, and yeah, gorgeous snakes. I mean, the other name is called disappeared snake. Um, and they're so soft. Like, when you touch them, they're the most soft snakes that you can sort of see. Um, mainly egg frogs. Um, but they'll also eat skinks and things like that. And you get them on the moss eventually. Um, here's a spotted one, which was a morph. It's weird. It's weird because we have copper heads here. And it's a completely different critter. And yeah, like completely different even look. I mean, it's just, it's like, so to hear you say copper head and stuff like that. It's not what I'm normally used to looking at. So that's just cool. Yeah, but yeah, that's a, that's a little bit of fun. Um, yeah. I mean, copper heads, yeah, they're a bit different. I mean, I, you know, most of them do have a copper colored head, I suppose. So that's why they've got that one. Um, then, then I suppose people usually get things like tiger snakes over here. Um, and they're stuck in tigers and browns. Um, you know, tigers are great. They're messy bloody things. They're the worst thing about tiger snakes is cleaning up. I actually, you know, shit everywhere. Um, I don't know if they really are any machines. I've never had a snake that, that shit's quite like a bloody tiger snake. Um, and they, they can be huffy and bitey things as well. Um, and you know, they come in a few different varieties. Um, here's a, an unbounded tiger snake. So they don't always like beans. Um, you've got gold, gold and tiger snakes. This one's from Tasmania that I'm putting up. Um, it's just kind of nice. It likes up. Um, you've got, you know, more classic sort of version of tiger snakes as well. I mean, tigers snakes get big too. Um, I've had tigers snakes that are almost up to two metres and five and a half kilos in white. Um, so they do get some, get some size to them. Um, they've got a big chap along on tigers and stuff like that. And then you've got other ones that are really small. Um, very toxic venom and, and people really do underestimate them over here. They don't think they're that bad. Um, you know, you've got to bite from one and you'll be screaming for mum. That's for sure. I'm lucky around pretty badly. Um, some of the brown snakes. Um, you know, there's all sorts of little brown snakes. Brown snakes are pretty bad. I mean, they can kill you out of the egg. You know, 20 centimetal and brown snakes have killed people. So, um, Jesus, this is a, this is a pretty full on looking one. Um, this is an England brown snake from far western Queensland. There's not too many of these in captivity. Um, so that's a, there's no yellow shopping bear but any of those photos. And that's, it's, they're pretty gorgeous to look at. Um, you know, fluorescent orange and yellow. Um, there's a, there's a pretty, there's a cobra had a baby with a Brooks king snake. It's ridiculous. It's like, yeah, that's, that's insane. You can see how else I am. That snake was really happy with him. I was talking about that, isn't it? Um, the gosh. He's a, he's a, he's a photo of mom, right? And you look at the photo of mom and you just like, oh my gosh. That came out of the best. Um, you know, the, the parents. Whoa. They look too bright. They're pretty rough looking thing. Um, it's like dark. And then, it has like this bright, freaking like, gold baby. It's like, that is insane. Wow. It's like a half a clutch, a half a clutch with orange and then the other half a clutch. It's like a sandy yellow. Um, yeah. So there's a, I kind of dig the, I kind of dig the, the little, little tier, like, scale right by their eyes. Kind of like a, um. Yeah, that black mark on the silver style is pretty cool. Yeah. What's up? Yeah. Um, but they don't want to be this. I want to say forest cobras got that too, but it's like, I haven't seen a forest in a while. I don't remember. Not a forest. Yeah. No, I don't think there's got something similar to that as well. Um, I think that's to do. Yeah. It is, you know, you had that, that. Oh, I sort of riking up there. Um, so this is a little kind of brown tonight. Um, that's, that's in the wild there, that one. Um, so, you know, just a cranky little brown side. These things. Me and Western brown side, I'll Western brown side group, don't get along. I'm going to make my first bite from one of those and I've had numbers of numbers. Number and number of close calls with these things. I don't, I don't keep them anymore because they always seem to want to kill me. Um, and I don't want to die, funnily enough. Um, so, so yeah. That's a weird thing. I don't want to die. Yeah. I don't, I don't feel like dying. Um, so, you know, I had these hatching out the other way because there's some jugots hatching out the other way. Um, you know, these things. Nasty, 40 little things. They went too bad when they were in the egg, but then they came out of the egg and then they're like this the whole time. Um, trying to. Wow. They were okay when they were in the egg. I mean, I just put the egg on, on some nice, some sort of half-nice looking stuff there when I was taking a photo. And then I would like that the whole time trying to bite me. Um, and almost coming off the ground trying to, trying to eat my hand. Um, which, which kind of suck. I use, um, the same thing when I'm doing one of my pythons. I, I use over water, over water incubation. Um, so these things. So I'll just sort of keep them on it and then make sure that they're sitting on, on the tray there. Um, one thing I have noticed, and I'm going to start doing them now. A bloody brilliant idea. Um, because of the tubs that I use, my tubs don't have, they're not the same tubs that I've got the sort of egg holders. What I saw people are doing, what they're doing here is they use clothing pegs. And they just put clothing pegs into the grills for it to hold the eggs in place. Hmm. So it doesn't matter what size the egg is, you can use a, use a peg to hold the egg in place each time. It works really, really well. Oh, that's cool. I'm fucking stealing that idea. That's great. And I, and I said that to the guy, I said that to the guy. Well, when I was, I said, wait, I'm stealing that. I was stealing that idea. Um. So, uh, yeah, I think you've got, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do the venus moms that, do the venus moms that lay eggs, like, do they take care of the eggs? Like, is it a battle? Yeah, is it a battle that you'll get them? Or do you just kind of? No, not, not even I give everyone's, um, no. Apparently, in Cobra's, we'll protect their nest, the females will protect their nest. Um, they do. But yeah, not, um, not, not that sort of thing. Um, so. Cool. They're eastern mouse eggs. Um, they're probably one of their most. Um, probably they're, they're, they're, they're, they're kill more people than anything else. In, in any other species in the country. Um, there's the second most lost venomous snake we've got in the country. I mean, their paddles are, um, are probably the fifth, fifth most than you've got their tiger snakes and you've got sea coastal type ants and you've got eastern browns and you've got inland type ants. Um, the most toxic in the world list is completely different to what is usually sort of the trade. You know, you see people put up, oh, the, the top 20 out of the top, top 30 venomous snakes in the world, 25 of them Australian. That's all bullshit. It's a, a study that was done that on the, the toxicity of the Australian venomous snakes that had three exotic venomous snakes as controls. And that's being put as, that's being purported as the most toxic venomous snake list. So I, you know, a really good study, um, got together, a whole heap of LD50 data, put it all together and has actually got this, this really good, um, this snake accumulator that's got all of the, all the, a whole heap of the mistakes all over the world that's incorporated into that. Um, and the actual top 10 list is very, very different. It's great in the, in the white boos and all sorts of stuff. Um, however, you know, we still do have number one inland type of, like the toxic venomous snake on the planet. Um, that includes these snakes. These snakes are not more toxic than the type of ants. They are number one. Um, inland type ants are gorgeous. Um, minor crank years of health. Um, they've been, they're minor, nastier than my, my, uh, my coastal products. Um, so, you know, the, the eye open is quite open to my job plan. And that's being able to, like, sort of do all those sorts of inserts actually. Um, they change color from summer to winter, which is pretty cool. So they, they sort of, that's all up in winter. Uh, in summer, they, they're nice and sandy yellow. And then in winter, they're sort of dark. Um, so the sand, that's the summer coloration snake and then the same snake in winter. The total will come up in a second. Oh wow. Oh, it's just like a dark brown. So that's a slightly different. Crazy color. Um, so obviously, yeah, in winter, it's colder. So they, they need to be darker. So they get so good. And then in summer, they're trying to reflect the way. Um, so that's those. And then sort of getting the more favorite, favorite sort of the lapas, which are the coastal type ants. Um, but, you know, they, they're not intelligent, but they're also, they're not hard to look at either. Um, you know, beautiful, rich reds over them as well. And then, you know, to these, these black things are, you know, these black tolly type ants or, which, like, ash, the light bulb, but happens to have really dark. Death hat isn't really dark talking. Um, so the sort of guy from Sandy Yellow will throw it all the way through the black. Yeah. Um, that's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. They're gorgeous animals, but no, like, no. You lost me a catheter. I mean, I haven't shown you the super pretty ones yet. There's another genus, which I as well known that, uh, like these are, they're insane. Um, it's the broad head of snake genus, which is Hopla Kefalas. Um, and they're, they're cranky, cranky, cranky snakes. Um, but, you know, they're, they're, they're pretty incredible. They'll, they'll send me a ballroom. Um, so they, they spend a lot of time having trays, but they'll also live in rock crevices and stuff like that. So, so that's one there. Um, they got these cool. That's why that guy is. It's nice, isn't it? Wow. Well, the head's so freaking cool compared to the, the head has a crazy ass pattern and it's got patterns. Is that their threat display? Yeah. Yeah, that's the threat display. So it sits there and opens his mouth. Yeah. And goes fuck you. I'm going to bite you. It's like a rough scale. Damn it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. But it's cool. Like they'll stick their tongue out as they're going at it, at you as well. Um, that's funny. And also, it's like a weight lip roughy venomous. Yeah. So they don't, so they hang their tongue out. That's awesome though. That's like, it looks so cool. Um, you know, you know, when they really get fired up, I mean, they, they strike and they, they're pretty accurate with the striking. Um, but they do a lot of climbing and stuff like that, which is pretty cool. They're different, you know, they, they get these really white heads on them as well. Um, you know, they stick that, um, they've got all really intricate pattern on the top of their head. So that's a pile head. It's like there. Um, so I don't think we even have these in the US. Like I've never even heard of these before. Oh yeah. So they're fairly thin on the ground. Um, so then you got things like, um, this thing here. This is pretty, this is different. This usually gets both of them. So this is from Sydney. Um, these get mistaken for diamond pythons every now and then. Um, which would go to South Robleson. Look, a happy diamond. Oh no. Oh yeah. No. So it's a broader mistake. They live under the sandstone. Um, sandstone. So it gets to about a meter, a meter and a half long and sits there and just, um, can, can make people get upset. Um, then you got Steven's bandit snakes. Um, so not all Steven's bandit snakes are banded. Um, but they usually look like these, which are, again, you know, gorgeous animals. They're pretty and, and all the rest of it. I can grumpy though. It is snappy, nasty things. Um, yeah. Great work out. But these things are just so, so bitey. Um, and the ante venom doesn't really work. Doesn't really work for them. Um, oh good. Uh, yeah. So let's put that kind of sock. So you don't want to be done by them. Um, so. Oh man. Um, um, yeah. I mean, someone made the comment of my putting all my photos up. I've got 11,000 photos on this computer, so I'm not putting nearly all my photos up. Yeah, we, we don't have that much time. But, um, but these are just a few things. Um, and I, I suppose with, with you guys being in the States, it's so, you know, a lot of this stuff is fairly fire removed. Um, so this is an unbandoned bandit snake. So it's a little bit different. Um, so they've still got all the funky head patterning, but they don't have anything on the body, which is a bit different. Um, so, yeah. So that's basically it. Um, so that's it. Um, so that's it. Um, so that's it.
Episode #
We are joined again by Scott Eipper to talk about the different aspects of Australian venomous snakes, both in the wild and in captivity.