Morelia Python Radio

White lipped pythons with Ryan Young

Episode #233 In this episode we will be talking to Ryan Young from Molecular Reptile about his approach to keeping and breeding White Lipped Pythons. He has successfully bred this species 3 years in a row. White lipped pythons are a more advanced species of python that are being kept in the reptile hobby today. We will talk in depth about his approach and what really makes this species tick. Molecular Reptiles- website http://www.molecularreptile.com/ Molecular Reptiles facebook page www.facebook.com/molecularreptile/?fref=ts

Duration:: 2h 33m
Broadcast on:: 10 Feb 2016
Audio Format:: other

Hey, Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL or as a reptile breeder in the owner of Projekt. I've been hurtful since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to the advanced in the industry and Educating the community about the importance of reptile. I also love to encourage the joy of breathing and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist Which is why my partner Robin and Markelon and I created the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site Bringing you the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world Then at the reptile report dot-com every day to stay on top of latest reptile news and information We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news photos and links we can feature Outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you the reptile report offers powerful brandy and marketing exposure for your business And the best part is it's free your buyer or breeder You got to check out the reptile report marketplace. The marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling Defamation full of features to help put you in touch with a perfect deal find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system Search by sex wait more or other keywords and use our buyer now options to buy that animal right now Go to marketplace dot the reptile report dot-com and register your account for free Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptiles account to earn free tokens With each shipping label you book use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum Act also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page buyer and selling you ship the reptiles dot-com Take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rate ship your reptiles dot-com can also supply you with the materials Needed to safely ship your animal successfully use ship your reptiles dot-com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates The materials need to ship the reptile successfully live customer support in our live on time arrival insurance program We got you covered visit the reptile report dot-com to learn or share about the animal Click on the link to the marketplace find that perfect pet or breeder then visit ship reptiles dot-com the ship at animal anywhere in the United States We are your one-stop shop for everything reptile related Welcome to the Ray area On radio with your host Eric Kirk and Owen McIntyre Hello everybody welcome to another episode of Moralia Python radio Episode 233 and tonight Owen we are talking yet subject that you like to talk about You have my entry and you've had it for a week now, so I've been dying for this kind of a show and it's really hard just to find somebody who has experience with this species and of course we're talking white lip pythons and I've loved white lip pythons till I since I since I saw an adult Female blackface chased my friend around his snake room attempting to kill him, so it's just been I love it and Having Ryan on who has had success with this species It's just even better, so I'm all jazzed up for a white lip show And it seems like just from the message board that everybody else is - it's like all of a sudden white lip fans are coming out of nowhere Yeah, yeah, they're They're definitely lining up for this episode It's it's pretty cool. We had Ryan on before and we kind of talked decondros and maybe a little bit a little bit other Few other topics, but this show Specifically kind of caught my eye. I was so cruising around Facebook I saw that he had posted up that he had another clutch of you know white lip pythons From what from my understanding which I'm not - I mean I know about white lip pythons But not like you do or they've white lip fans out there, so luckily I had you to go with me in this show, but the the southern form It's definitely more difficult to breed from from my understanding is that correct? I think it I don't know if it's more difficult. It has been done less Okay, I don't know if it what lives in general gold black north south east west I don't care what you call them in general. I believe are a little difficult and It kind of goes with the they have to be compatible pair You got to get at the right time and it's one of those like a lot of shit can go wrong and So that's kind of why and I believe that the blacks are a little bit on We're a little bit on the rarer side and you can United States collections, so okay You know it just seems like I guess from wherever they do their importations from they shouldn't be able to go outside and Feel a big box full of gold phase Really easily and then like three or four blackface, and that's it. So that's changing recently, but whatever Yeah, so Ryan has been able to successfully breed the species three years in a row and it's funny I was talking to Scott Eper right before the show and He was saying that I guess everybody down in Australia has made respect for Mr Ryan young for his accomplished war breeding some of the rarer species of pythons for sure, so Yeah, I mean should be should be a very interesting show I don't Leo Python is the genius that they're in Again, I don't what know anymore because didn't they just change them to The Throckis, I mean like I thought they were moved over here over there there It did the white lips are one of those things where it's like ever changing and I haven't read the latest paper So I don't know where they are right now Because I mean if you go far enough back at one point what lip was in Lyasis and You know it's all over the place depending on what paper you're reading is where what lip nomenclature is so Yeah, you know now that you say that I remember Nick posting something about Bob Some kind of I can't remember I don't know it it's a damn ring pythons. Whatever the hell they are Oh, they're like that word they're they're classified with the ring pythons. Yes They're both ron chilis. Oh my god, I'm sorry. Yeah, I don't know like I'm butchering it Somebody like Nick is sitting their head against the table going down moron, but it's okay. Um, I didn't take latin But I think they said that they the closest relative to the white lips were the rings And I think at one point they were lumped in with Timors and a few other pythons at the same time. Oh, I don't know Team or I know I don't either. So now the teamwork are with retics over here and The white lips are with ring pythons over here. I Can't think of that. I don't know. I've never kept ring pythons. They're like mini white lips. No, so I could talk all right So it's Lisa that's what I think if I remember if I'm remembering the paper correctly somebody who probably is way more versed on it again is probably hitting their head against the desk with every word that I say I Apologize to that person and if you feel to be correct us, please email it info it really played on radio to come We'll fix it in the mix. Um, yeah, we're gonna try Well, I think probably Ryan won't be Fix it right as soon as you start. Yeah, but you know, it's everyone to a while when we get the guests on and you and the guests Starts with you more on even though it's gonna be one of those shows. So I'm kind of trying to avoid that So, right. I mean, we've had those in the past So yeah, right we we're gonna we're gonna have Ryan on and what we're gonna just basically talk about is basically, you know, maybe some natural history talk on some of the what, you know, what kind of environment these are coming from You know Dan from DM exotics posted up a video And there have a new locality called Tana Mara As opposed to the ones that have been coming in from Tamika And apparently as opposed to the blackface wet lips that have been coming in forever. It's I don't well I think they can't wrap around this Yeah, they they kind of look the same but These new ones to from Tana Tana, Marara Tana, oh man Tana, Marara Basically, they are seem to be a lot chiller You know, and if you watch that video that he posted up he's basically Taking them out and they're real calm and you know He was showing that we're on heat and it's not like that they were cold or something like that But but I've had I've had really chill blackface white lips and I've had psychos So I've had I've had both ends like I had a female that was really chill And I had a male that was really chill and then I had a female that wanted to rip your face off And I had a male that was a torpedo with teeth I mean, you know, it's and then I had one that was like in the middle. It depends on what day you caught her on So it's like I wouldn't really does that mean that the two calm ones were actually from this locale before we started calling it a locale well, I Don't know I guess my question would be as far as these locales that are popping up is You know, are these sub speech? Does it fall like carpets subspecies of these species? I know that there's a whole bunch of Different species of white lipids on Five of them. Okay. I don't know. I did that paper again Man, didn't you do any homework for this show? You're so I'm getting my white lip guys. Stop over a book in your white with a place on card, too But I believe that there's you know, because I remember reading the barkers book and the one that they did about the What was it called the the invisible arc, right? They think there was 42 42 45 and when I was counting them up, I couldn't couldn't remember all these different species of python But then when I looked into the white lips, there was all these ones that I never heard of Yes, I don't know if those are in collections or if they were just zoom, you know in a jar There's that that's unfortunately The the one where the one paper that I read and I believe was written by Someone I'm not gonna say their name Starts with an H um so that they they looked at specimens in jars and They kind of described the animals from that and if you've ever been in a scientific setting where you've looked at specimens in a jar Some of these guys were preserved a while ago and some of them may not have been preserved correctly plus Colors change when they're floating in liquid. So I mean A lot of them were basing off of scale pattern on the head or scales on the head versus build of the body but we've all seen baby pythons they look really weird until they grow up so you don't know what phase of the growth you were in and The one was described as this bluish gray and one was described as this red And you don't know if that's because of the thighs or if something went wrong with the fixing So it's really weird, which is why everybody lost their minds when that one red white lip showed up the this pasture which I want to talk about that one with Ryan too and get his idea on that one because Yeah Everybody immediately jumped to that it was possibly the Bennett's Which they they describe this kind of having a reddish tint to it which I've never seen ever so I don't know What it is I don't know I know some people were saying obviously he took a gold white lip and put it in a vat of Kool-Aid for three So I mean I don't know And It's really funny is when that video premiered. I started counting the people who sent me the video and pictures of it and asked me And it was like and it was like somebody who sent me a text and they're like congratulations number 16 How are you today? And I'm like what do you mean? I'm like you are the 16 person to text me congratulations Look at I wanted to get to 20, but I think I got to like eat in or something. I was I was depressed so That's all Let's just throw this out there before we get Ryan or more like Ryan runs His website is molecular reptile.com so you can check it out there and he also has a Facebook page Miraculate from Miracular Miraculater yeah, I got really good. I'm just programmed I say The M word Molecular good eloquent host just wrap up through it at the time. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm butchering Morellia and molecular Just wants to say m-o-r. Not emo. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. We know you can bring Latin a little bit ago Yeah, yeah, you can I have the links in the show description So if you want to check out what he has going on I would also advise to check out the past episode Ryan and also check out his talk he did on Green tree Python keeper radio TTP keeper radio Which was very good as well We have the chat going along Over in the NPR chat over on Facebook So if we have some questions that have popped up So as we're going along and if you have any questions that you want us to hit on Feel free to post them over. I'm gonna do it a little bit of an intro then Oh, and we'll take over and I'll monitor to chat. So Hey, Ryan welcome back to Morale Python radio glad to have you back ready to talk some white lip pythons. How are you doing? Chircling You there? Yeah Yeah So now that we butchered everything about white lip No, it's very easy. Just call us idiot to move forward. So it's It's primarily I guess So let's let's start at the very beginning I mean, let's talk about maybe a little bit of natural history on these guys Maybe you can clear up the you know I know one of the questions that we had in the chatroom is why does everybody refer to them as black and gold phase as opposed to the actual Species name and northerds and southerners and why don't they use what where are they in? Nomenclature where do they fit in? What is what is the deal with them? Well, I guess the The latest genetic work pretty much shows that they're they should be aligned with both regardless, which is the ring type link but You know used to be just ring Python in that jinglish, but Apparently it shows what I've felt for a long time to test ring pythons and white lip pythons Hopefully related. So to me, it's author of kylus, but for some people the laopython So it just depends on which author you are talking to and which one they want to go with at this point Gotcha. Yeah, I can see the resemblance to them and ring pythons for sure So, I mean, there's not a whole lot of information out there about where they're from or what kind of environment they're from I mean, can you maybe expand our info on that a little bit? Um, there's really not a lot of published information. So you one of the most published people in the field is a marker shape and If you read some of this stuff, he's written over the years They're pretty much a lowland. I think you know, they only go up a few thousand feet into the Mountains, so they're pretty much a lowland Animal the northern species the gold white lip apparently is less Habitat dependent of the southern species so That's why Apparently the gold ones, you know a lot easier to collect there The from what he writes the southern ones are very very rainforest dependent Close canopy rainforest dependent water, you know river courses Whereas the gold phase will or the northern species will use a lot more habitat there varieties Yeah, you know, I remember an episode of Crocodile hunter where Steve Irwin was I think it was called the juggle in the clouds with the episode and Basically, he found the white lip python that was just cruising through the it was like a stream as he was climbing up the side of the mountain And there it was just pretty chill. I thought that was pretty awesome. They're Definitely uh, so you would find these in the environment on the ground where you would find condros set Um, I'm not sure exactly how they all intermingle He publishes in the northern area. It was the most common python he encountered Oh, wow north of the dividing range I said it wasn't uncommon to find, you know, four to six individuals in the night. They live around people apparently Um Now obviously there's no carpets north of the dividing range that we know of so Well, that might want something to do with it as well, but the the southern He talks that they were far less common and they did not occur where the carpet pythons were so Huh, which makes sense there more of a scrub, you know, not quite full-blown rainforest like on me getting on your head Huh, that's interesting. Um, so I would imagine there's green pythons with both of them Yeah, probably means right in that area. So Have to be some overlap Yeah, we think that they're more in the you know in the canopy and you know, the white lips are more on the ground So That would that would make sense. Um, what about as far as um, let's talk about what you're working with what kind of group of Snakes are you working with when it comes to white lip pythons? I have a pair of the full-in species and 2.1 of the northern species Okay Cool. Wow. So you you wow you you've been lucky with do you think that the fact that Your animals are just dialed into your your environment or What do you equate your success with breeding them? Um, you know for a couple of years I would they were really frustrating me they uh, would swell up here to the follicles and I thought twice I thought I had Plutches coming before I actually produced them. So they were very humbling in that manner But uh, now I mean the last three years, it's um I mean it seems simple, but There's I would have had a magic formula. I really don't they uh, they just kind of got dialed in the first couple of times she cycled Um She would cycle fairly early in the summer And uh, then when I started actually cycling my room You know manipulating the environment to reproduce everybody else. It seemed like it Would throw her off. And so I think the first year She started showing follicular development in like august and then the next time the next year she started showing it in like september And then the year that she actually went, you know, she didn't start showing it till October so Gotcha. I just I just took uh I think it just took some consistency and then I think I screwed things up. I I thought she was gravid the first time So I I cranked up the heat and I don't think that helped and uh I thought uh And I stopped feeding her and Where she stopped eating because I mean, I'd never seen follicles that big that weren't actually eggs So it's uh really really messed me up Through me off but uh And then I did the I did the rookie thing, you know, I thought I'm gonna try a different setup next year and a different setup the next year and Well, I just got out of my own head and just said, you know what treat them like everything else and forget about it All right, I'll be fine They have so What were you gonna ask that one? Well, uh, Ryan with your white lips. Did you uh, what age did you get them? Did you get them as jubbies? Did you raise them up as from uh Babies and are any of them captive born or are all yours while collected? Um, my female was wild collected, but she was pretty small. Um, yeah So I don't that really wasn't much of a hanging up The, uh, male was produced by matt Turner. Um, I didn't get it from matt, but I got it secondary from The guy who got it from that um, um He's captive bred. Um, trying to think when I got him. I think I got him I think I got the female and It was the late Early 2000s, you know, before 2010 I believe probably like 2008 2000 somewhere between 2005 and 2000 Somewhere in there. Okay. Yeah, well, I moved I well, let me think I had the female before I moved and I moved in 2007 So I don't think I had the male yet Well, I guess that would Probably got the female in 2006 and got the male in 2008 be my guest Okay, and the gold Uh, I got a female gold Uh, a while ago Um had her since she was little she woke up the um Like a two years ago. I picked up a male Um And I just they I don't think they like each other that much Uh, I actually just got another male today. So it's uh, well hopefully next year. I'll have a male that maybe she'll like but I haven't uh I don't I mean I have seen and copulate before but Only once and she developed pretty good follicles last year Uh, I didn't go and this year She's sitting there with big follicles, but I just don't I don't have much faith in the pair because the gold the black uh, the black ones when I put them together, they don't I mean, they're never away from each other. They're like glue on each other um And that's what other people I've talked to said their compatible pairs were like that when I stick the gold together Um You know the next day I'll go in there and I'll find the male complete as far away from the females and get her She's far away from him. You know, she can get and I've only one now and walk up. So Even if they're breathing, I don't know that they're they're breeding enough or She likes him enough or he likes her. I don't know Hopefully next year. I'll have another male to see if if assuming she doesn't go with she Puck that in the mix. Um The the the you feel the the best thing to do is to get them Young and raise them up or Is it just yeah, I think they need a nice strong species. I think anytime you move them. It's a big mistake I think it's I think it takes years for the snakes to establish the rhythm with a keeper and so if you Let's say somebody gets some they have them for two years can't breed them and they give that up and they sell them to somebody else and That person You know new cages new environment probably completely new Atmospheric conditions depending on where in the country they got you are Yeah, I think it just resets their clock every time they get moved around Um, it makes sense So and I think that might explain some of the Problems. Um, I know matt Turner when he sold his group But I don't believe they did anything Um for the person here gone, but I think there's also a fire involved in their passing. I think I don't know. I can't remember From what I heard. Yeah And I heard something like that happened, but I don't really like you. I don't really remember everything there But he liked Matt dialed his group in got a couple of months a couple years in a row and then you know for whatever reason Moved on and it's hard to say whether they would have continued to do well somewhere else. So if not, I mean, it would have been nice to To see how that translated but in my opinion, I don't I think That can set him back Yeah, like I could see that Um So I guess for people who aren't aware, can you go through maybe some of the big differences Between the northerns and the southerns not just the way they look but like behavioral wise and things like that Um as a general rule the southern Um overall seemed more more tractable. Most of the individuals are mellow in my experience With the occasional FICO Um With the gold I've probably had I don't know I probably had eight nine gold and I've had I would say roughly 50% of them are chill and The others aren't too bad Um As babies both species in my opinion are pretty high strong uh, yeah But uh, they seem to mellow out Structurally, the southerns are a lot bulkier for for their length. It appears they have like a more blocky head um A thicker body for the length But in you hear people talk about that the southerns in the northern Um, you know, the southerns get a lot bigger Um, then you in a choose published paper basically showing that their average adult size was pretty uniform across the board There may be truth to that but in his sample size it didn't come to fruition My adult my adult southerns and my adult northerns are probably about the same length But the southerns are More bulky Yeah Probably a potential for bigger size But somebody in Europe posted us so uh northern a gold phase that was Man, that thing had to been Eight nine feet it was huge. I I had three that were massive and None of them had nice attitudes. It was That I was not too upset to see them leave but and then somebody has Uh, a southern up on one of the classifieds. It's like a nine foot Boy or something like that state. Yeah, the potential to get huge They just be really clearly do I've I've heard of the few nine foot specimens um You know, I've never put a tape measure on one so I couldn't not bet big um, yeah I mean you feel that that's a necessary thing like the or is it like Is it like with car No, it's not an aol on it but it's like my animal one anywhere near that All right, because that's the thing for people always are like you have to get them huge. Well, maybe not so No, my uh My animals are Was a female after laying She was 2300 grams Okay I think she's 170 centimeters And the male's 158 centimeters, so they don't have to be that big Yeah I think uh think chad gray brought his uh Gold of male or something to tin lane. He wasn't that big he was a you know, just a I guess a Older boy, but he wasn't huge. So That's cool. Um Ryan can you go into like how you would set up uh, or what your suggest what your suggested set up for uh a captive hat store while caught white lip one you got and got straight out of bush to kind of Cut back on the stress levels Uh, if you've got a wild caught one Is that a dressing um, I would probably use a tub to start with Uh, keep you know keep it pretty calm put a couple of hard boxes in there. We'll call it in cool in Keep it on paper till you get it cleaned out um And then uh other than that they're usually Not too, not too bad. These are the good beaters and um You know, just get Start your deep hair slight treatments and You all that so Do you have any like a suggested food that you might want to try if uh, They're not taking a rat or a mouse right away Um, I've never had any problem with any of them. I'm not eating mammals. So So, you know seem to be mammal eaters uh, I Anything if if you think if you want to eat something off tongs if you just leave something live in there there They'll go eat it or at least kill it. So At least do that part Okay Um How do you how do you have your other your that what your typical white lip setup if you had your place for your adults Oh, it's pretty boring. I keep the uh, I have the golds in tv 70s when I have the uh, the blacks and um The ARF tub that's 33 and a half by 23 24 and a half or 26 and that's not like that Well, same setup. I keep my blood pythons. Yeah Okay Do you think the tub is kind of like Helping for like obviously the animal can't see you. So you think that's kind of helping with the whole stress level for these guys Uh, the southern ones has a window in it. So, okay, I don't They but I mean, I'm not in there all the time. They're out in the snake doing some, you know, I'm only in there when i'm doing stuff, but I I really I think it's consistency. I think cages would be fine any Any setup you offer them as long as you're the basic needs are not um I said, I want to say the thing consistency is case a compatible a pair that likes each other and then So you don't think uh, I know that we've had a past guest on that sort of talked about um The cage size that they needed a lot of room and that they were very active snakes. Do you don't find that to be the case? Uh, they're pretty active. Uh, but I I mean, I that's what I keep them in and they seem to do fun And they're breathing. Yeah, well, apparently. Yeah, what they do is going in a bigger cage I it's hard to picture. They would maybe the gold. Maybe that's my problem. I haven't seen these maybe I need to put them in the bigger toes Oh, that was so weird If the gold face have to go into the bigger ones and The black ones can stick in the rack at whatever So, I think I don't think that's my problem with the gold ones But that's that's where you start overthinking crap and then you end up like totally messing it up. So, you know But uh, we also have heard from past guests that hydration and humidity Could be an issue for these guys Oh, the hydration is a big deal. I hate to admit that I killed the first gold light lip I ever had because I I was out of town for a couple weeks and I I filled everybody's water before I left um And uh, I didn't make sure some of you filled it's water. I thought I was like the other ones if it ran out of water for a couple Then it wouldn't be a problem. Well, it turns out with light lips and ring five songs. That is a problem So wow, yeah, make sure they have water all the time That's uh, they don't they do not do well without water. So needs All right, then what about like humidity because I know that my guys ever once in a while will go through a rough shed Yeah, they're horrible shatters without high humidity. Um And uh, the problem with high humidity is Like confidently damp conditions aren't good either So it's a balancing act. Um, so what I do is I have a live gallon bucket that i've cut down to fit inside the the, um, cage And then or the pub Then I obviously make a hole in it and I usually put monster um Monster cybers mulch inside that and I keep that Human like I spray that portion of the cage Just inside the hide and then and they're usually in the hide all day and then at night They're, you know, poking run around and uh, well And I keep on aspen putting on the other part of it, so But when they're in shed then I typically will spray the whole cage until after they shed Okay That makes sense just kind of Not a little bit better when they're you know kept They're just their overall appearance. They're sheen. They're oh, you know, yeah, they're they're skin tone They're just far more impressive when they're checked, uh They've been acting up that awesome So Well, okay, I could I mean Wasn't that one of the common misconceptions about floods is that everyone kept trying to keep them like a Swamp or something like that So, um, yeah, they they like a human too. They don't have very good sheds If it's not human, but At the same time, I don't really I don't worry about humidity. I don't sit there and measure it or try to say what the humidity is Um, that's I've never you know, you start trying to Put numbers on things and you just can drive yourself crazy, especially up here. It's so strong dry Yeah Okay so with the With breeding of the species. Well, I mean, obviously you have had Like three years of success wherever he else is not a lot of other people can say that I mean What do you think is the most important part of breeding the species? Most important thing I would say would have to be that you have them for a while and that you have the two probably the two things that go hand-in-hand is Consistent conditions consistent cycle time and then a pair that like each other Because it I mean it's At this point it seems very mundane and routine to breed the southern tree because they just seem to be dialed in now For a couple years. I didn't think that they were, you know, making me pull my hair out But a lot of that was my inability to read what they were telling me and well Eventually I caught up and they caught up and it just works now but I don't know I wish I had a magic formula. I mean I can tell you what I do What works for me? Yeah, we'll we'll get that Okay So, but I mean like go ahead. I mean like, you know, uh, whatever you were about to say go ahead, please Oh, um, why I for me where I live. I start cycling my snake room October 1st town hell or high water. I don't care what's going on Um, I used to I used to balance or I used to juggle You know when I cycled I would cycle any I would start cycling anywhere from October to November to December I even started as late as January 1st before And uh, I don't think that inconsistency that start time change was good So when I moved um I noticed when I moved out here and I put my snakes, um I had them in my basement in my old house and now they have their own building and in my basement the temperature Was entirely dependent upon what I told it to do with thermostat with years Um never it never got hotter than I told it to because it was in my basement Uh, when I moved and I put them in a building um, summers where I lived can get into the hundreds routinely Uh, the winners are bitter cold And My snake room it freaked me out first couple of times the first summer I was out here My snake room would get like 85 degrees during the day to freak me out Uh, but the snakes don't seem to mind. It's just the keeper that's freaked me Uh, right and I started to notice the fart within a little while It's usually like late august Uh, or all through august but that's happening and my snake room would get It's hard is you know, 85 86 during the day and then back to 80 during at night um But then winter usually It usually goes from like summer to cold Up here. So okay, it can be it could be a hundred, you know, and then two weeks later. It's you know into the 60s 50s. So it's um I would notice that As soon as the cool down the summer cool down started to happen That my snakes were starting to develop follicles and acting like they wanted to start breathing I haven't even done anything yet. I haven't even cycled Haven't done it as well. That's why I just decided I'll just start October 1st And yeah, that's usually You know, usually even by october 1st I have uh snakes already acting like they're well into being cycled and wanting to reproduce and the black whitelets are the very first thing every year so Okay She's laid every I think it's been January um It was December and then January and January again She's laid two clutches and one 365 calendar year So Wow It Like were you a little worried about how quick she was kind of Throwing them all around her Yeah, I usually don't I tried to give her The I tried not to bring her the second year um typically I Plan on reproducing most my pythons every other year and so Well I didn't put it. I think I put them all in those twice So I kept watching her I kept watching her grow huge follicles and Sitting upside down and I mean she just was ravenous at the food and and I thought man she's gonna Just ovulate and do this if I Whether I put the male in there or not. So I put them together Twice, I think they locked up twice and she ovulated so There's this well, I guess it was meant to be so Well, you're gonna do it might as well. I mean if you're gonna do everything for you. It's like, why not? Yeah, so now I just feed feed her good and uh, she wants to breathe. She can breathe off and she wants She seems to bounce back really quick. It doesn't It doesn't seem to take a lot out of her like it does some of the other snakes So Even though the like you you said the follicles were were huge I mean even with Those huge follicles and I guess which turned into equally pretty big eggs It still doesn't doesn't wreck her that badly No, it's I mean she looks pretty rough right when she lays them, but You take the eggs away from her and you know give her a fresh drink and Rinse her off and she usually eats a couple days after she lays and then it's off to the races. She just wants to eat and eat and eat So Wow, I can't I mean like She just shed Look, I mean you wouldn't even know she laid And they did only a couple weeks then so Well now as far as feeding goes are you feeding? um Every week is there is is there a specific regimen that you're following? What size prey no, I'm I'm I'm I think the worst thing that ever happened to snakekeepers as a schedule Yeah I've been known to feed her three times in a week and then not feed her for a month and then feed her Once a week for a while maybe twice a week or maybe two times and then go two weeks. It's just kind of Whatever i'm doing whatever snakes I'm planning on breeding the next year tend to get more food than the other ones so And then during the summer. I don't see a terrible amount to anything so So coming out of coming out of breeding season is sort of one you sort of Put the food to the female and then back off as you're getting closer Yeah, I'll feed her. I'll feed her pretty heavily right now. Um because she just laid Um, but by by the time we're in the heat of the summer since it does get so hard my snake and I don't like to feed a lot um Or big meals and stuff so and then i'm usually trying to grow up certain other snakes so they get the majority of the rats I got you and after You know say Late august through september i'll go okay Now if you're trying and then i'll just hammer with food. She's got a huge follicle so i'll do it Okay, oh, what do you just size of prey wise large rat something like that No, no, no, no, I feed her maybe Small mediums Okay, we don't make much of a lot of it Wow, I don't want well, I don't want it for one. I don't want a giant whitelist There's definitely there seems to be a correlation between the size of the food and how much they grow more so than how much you feed All right, okay That's interesting Yeah, I like that idea. I like that approach um kind of smaller prey items I had to stop feeding my white lips. Um, so me Do you um I totally lost my space here. It's gone Uh, I know we talked a little bit about mate selective being selectivity. I mean that I know you said that's a little bit important. I mean, have you seen where it goes bad or have you seen it where Uh thinking like they can almost can hurt each other Um, I well, I've only got the own I've only owned um Three black white lips One I had when it was little and I didn't keep it Um, and then this pair. Um, so I got really lucky that this pair it seems to really like each other So I don't I don't have any experience with the southerns on that the northerns Like I've said, they don't they do not seem they don't fight They don't you know, but they don't hang out. They Rarely, I think like I said once I've caught them on the same side of the case and they were copulating but uh It It didn't I don't know how to how to explain it without sounding weird, but it didn't seem like they were doing it Because they liked each other because they were They were not they weren't all like, you know intertwined and I mean, it was almost like, you know, two hogging those snakes were at one point in one way and yeah, they weren't really We can certainly business. They weren't cuddling. Let's put it this way. Let's not love making it there Let's get this over with Yeah All right. I don't like you. You don't like me, but if we get this done, you'll beat us again. So yeah, all right We're like a five or seven together. They're like they become one snake. They don't they're All over each other intertwined. You can't tell where one starts and the other stuff Whereas the gold typically when I look in there One would be on one side one would be on the other so They don't they may not appear to like each other that much What when do you do the introductions like when you put the males in with the girls you do it During cool down after cool down whenever I usually why I usually start cooling October 1st and I'll usually start getting together anytime after that Um, okay The southerns are quick. They usually she usually has pretty good follicles before I even start cooling Um, she's been she's been the first snake to lay for me all three years she's led so They're usually well into it Um, in fact, well, I'm usually debating on if I have to turn the room heat back up because she's already ready to go so She kind of throws a wrench in my my plans everything Okay, um What are your um What are your temps? I mean when you when you drop them down Like what do you think the lowest is that you allow them to get? You know, they probably get is 72 74 Okay And I mean that obviously you said like they were Um, uh, you said do they still kind of do what they do normally are they like hiding in the Uh in the hide box for the most of the day and then cruising around nighttime Or do you see? Yeah When they're together, they're usually just always there's they're not as active when they're together because they're usually all over each other um I noticed when you know their activity seems to be just about each other when they're together So they're all really crawling around much at that point. They will squeeze them to the bucket together was pretty Well, I when I open the tub. I usually have to take One or both of them out to get the tub Shuts because they're getting back into the bucket. Well, a lot of the things you know Some I wouldn't give them a hide just because what I'm breathing them because they just But two of them in a five gallon bucket cut down to six inches. So There's a lot of snake and a very tight board in a very small area I do I do have a question now as far as um, you know, how do you balance Because you work with multitude of species of pythons. How do you balance? Um, you know like cooling down and warming up with with a different species and how do you get that in tune to where you don't miss Um, you know, you were saying about how when you you raise the temperature of the room Um, it might have affected the white lip pythons Um, whereas your other pythons may be in that rhythm like how do you how do you balance that out? Any tips? It's It's tough. I mean, I'm sure I'm sure Uh, trying to keep so many species from so many different geographic, uh, areas And weather patterns. Uh, I'm sure that trying to do One recipe for all of them has probably cost me some success with certain species and um So I think you know, you typically if you If you've got if you're trying to do it like me, you'll stick certain things lower in a room so they can get colder during the winter because uh Even if I tell my thermostat, you know, go down to 72 at night If there are six inches away from an uninsulated concrete floor in north Idaho Uh, I got news for you, but there would be a lot less than 72 degrees, so Right, that is not going to happen. No Um, and then I don't I don't um You know, I'm not a big Basking spot guy. I don't offer a lot of asking spots to anything so Right, that um Certain things get them, you know, if I'm taking stuff colder than I know some stuff wants to go then I'll offer those species You know, if let's say like blood pythons, you know, you don't need to take you know taking them to 75 is You know plenty so all typically just Uh-oh Okay We loot are you there? Yeah, I need to wear Yeah Kind of sound like you're in a tunnel. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, there you go The um Now I do have another question. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead Eric Well, I know you I know you were talking about how You said you might have like Poiled yourself there with a few species, but it seems like as long as you keep doing what you're doing the white lips eventually Got on the same page as you so do you think that that would happen with some of your other species? um that everybody would eventually just get on the The train with you and do the seasons when you start doing everything for them I think it it makes some difference. I think statistically Um, you know, it probably cost me like I mean, I'm good at breathing You know the end of stuff Mostly off the stuff, but if like bread live, you know, I haven't been able to breed those yet They just want to go colder than you know, what I'm doing So For those of you know this year I put them out in my garage for the winter. So um Couple of my one of the spimsons python's group that I worked with, you know come from the same region as the bread lie and the The captive bread that I produced just didn't show any interest in reproducing, which is really weird for anterica um Yeah, and so I put uh, you know, I put them out in the cold box too. So It's uh, we'll see, you know, I don't I wouldn't I wouldn't breathe down in place on how I'm doing I thought it was really boring. I you know, I have to know my limitations, but And then you know, maybe statistically, um, you know, might not be as good at breeding warmups and blackheads and stuff Well, uh You know, it works. I can i've done it, but maybe I would have higher success if I was able to go colder. It's hard to say So just add a curiosity when you're putting them out there in your garage What kind of temps are you looking at like as a nighttime low? Um, well, I guess I should preface that I put them in a box out in my garage If I put them out in my garage they could get below freezing I civic I think I said it to where they could get to uh, I think 65 was as cold as they could get it Okay, maybe yes Now we're on the bottom so they might have I mean here that they could have got the 60 for all I know Yeah, where the probe where the probe was that Okay, right My other question would be and then a let-o and take back over but my other question would be have you ever had any issues when you were going through your phases of Trying to get these guys to go with um, any kind of respiratory infections being that they are highly stressed Uh, you know, a high strong type of species to begin with have you is breathing? I haven't had any respiratory issues um I think I think some of the respiratory issues people run into with them are probably because they're keeping them too They're trying to keep them too humid It's going to be a correlation there seems to be a correlation of uh You know, if you if you're constantly too human, that's a, you know breathing ground for That stuff, uh, I think kind of hot and humid is probably pretty bad too So I guess I avoid that but I don't I don't Typically I only offer a basket slot when they're gravid Right, they're already good. They're already back cannot getting their basket spot. They got it first 30 days That's enough Nice I guess we'll get more tricks today, but Okay All right, go ahead. I would All right. So, I mean once the female is like Gravid or once you feel she's gravid the male stops going in right or as you just see enough copulations and Call it or do you keep them in there until you you're totally for sure that she's gravid Um, well, if you're if you if you really follow your snakes, uh, most male pythons are actually pretty good at telling you when the females thumb Um, they'll usually they'll usually Go into a shed about a week or two before the female ovulates um That's Not the case as much with if you're constantly using like one male on a bunch of females that doesn't seem to Correlate as closely, but when you're doing one animal to one animal I've male my male black white lip is usually the one who tells me when she's had enough um, so They uh, they usually breed for a couple months Uh breed a lot Uh, he'll usually shed one time while they're breathing But when she has huge follicles, I start feeding her real heavy Um, he'll usually you'll go You'll open up the bin one day and you're like, oh He's in shed So It's usually you feed her one or two more times and she'll pop ovulate, so Yeah, uh I once once I see him in shed That's usually a cure to me to try though. I think feeding them can help trigger ovulation. So off feeder, uh Is often as every, you know five days little meals try to pressure over the top And uh, she'll swell up ovulate and then He'll usually shed about the time she's ovulating Wow, okay Are you seeing him and her at this? I mean, or does he typically go off food because he's only talking about one other thing he does Right, all my male pythons eat. I hear all these people that Oh, my male doesn't eat. I don't know man. I don't see that, but I guess I starve my snacks My male pete, whenever they get to, I got males like locked up with females and eat and I didn't realize they were locked Oh, no, I'm gonna get that food Wow um So I'd like any special requirements for her once you notice there that she's grabbing I know you you said you were tempted to Bump up the heat or something on her when you realize she was finally Gravyred. Is there anything else you do with her typically once you know she's good Uh once I know like once I've seen her ovulate, uh, which is very obvious It does only last typically For belated or it's really on face And again when it peaks, it's very obvious All right when I suspect when I suspect that I'm getting close. I'll usually check on her every three hours just to You know and it happens pretty fast. You'll go out there and maybe like who she's big and then you go out there Three hours later. Whoa, she's bigger and then they go out there and you're like, oh crap couch She's that's it and then by the next morning you'll go out there and you're like, huh? She looks like Before she ever even started breathing. So it's uh, that's when once she's done that then then I uh give her a bathroom spot and uh Make you know put her bucket back in there so She can fit in there Wow like it is it's an eight hour like window There well it just well it peaks like I mean you can look at them and you'll know like that they're building but a lot of people miss Yeah, they're really the the heavy peak of it because they just don't see it You know when it's like I mean when it looks like they swallowed a football. Yeah. Yeah, that only lasts for a few hours He like the really the really obnoxious painful ovulation typical holy crap. Yeah Okay, the one where you're like, okay, I don't have to guess anymore stuff I know what's going on now. All right, but I'd say it's typically about a day and a half where every time you look at her She looks bigger than the last time and then Then they call on it. Let's go Okay Very cool. So how long until Uh, I mean is it normal python stuff when you realize that she's Gravid is like to when you start getting uh Prelate sheds and the actual laying of the eggs It seems to be a little like white lipstick shed a lot. They they seem like they shed more often than a lot of things Uh, so Typically after she ovulates, she looks like she's going into shed within a few days. Um, okay The shed seems to take a little longer. So it's I mean it's the typical 21 to 30 days Uh, you know, they shed and then 28 to 32 days should laser eggs So it's anywhere from like I think 55 to 64 days after ovulation to eggs And uh, the eggs were like, uh, size of a maybe a little bit bigger than a carpet python or Um, they were quite a bit bigger than carpet pythons, but the last carpet python is tiny. So I would have to preface that by saying the last one I've read I can tell you that I would have big the eggs or I'd just have to get on my two feet They're a lot bigger than condor eggs. We know that much. So, oh, yeah lovely Condor eggs I want to say they were Uh, the eggs average 97.3 grams Wow Yeah, one year it was 97.3 the next year. It was 109.8 Yeah, the first book I had the eggs were bigger. They've They've gone down. So it's the last two. Wow So incubation, um, obviously, you don't you don't let her eat the eggs You don't do mister. Oh, no, I don't think they're explaining I wrote the last there was a guy. Um I think his name was clip on the He's a green tree python guy. Uh, he had I want to say it was 2012 He bred some black white lips and he left a female maternal incubin I I couldn't do that. I panicked the entire time Well, he said he said he did it because she was so psycho trying to take the eggs that Um, I'm pretty sure that's what he told me There was a pick he posted a picture on a forum and it was like It looked like one of those old cockatiel nest boxes with that, you know Like that three inch hole in the front of wood box Yeah, and there was a picture. He posted a picture of him shooting a picture through that hole And you can see her looking at him like i'm going to kill you and you can see the top of the eggs So I definitely admire him for giving her a shot. Oh, yeah Like, oh no, I think he's a bite I know he hatched some of them. I think he hatched them all but I I know he did have some Geez So The temperature incubation. Are we looking at like same thing you Yeah Normal stuff 88 5 90, you know Um, I noticed better I was gonna say I was just looking on your website and I was checking out the uh, some of the pictures you have there And that one female that's basking belly up. Um, basically Is that what you would have as I guess that's your box that you're talking about like your nest box and Um, I think that that year was uh, I was using like a regular hide box Just turned upside down the last couple of years. I've used a black five gallon bucket with the top cut off of it Gotcha. I have a question since you're a python guru. Um, what's your thoughts on why they basque belly up? Um I don't I think it might have something to do with just comfort or trying to get more heat directly to the eggs then Um, you know, I mean if you because they don't most pythons don't like to bask out in the open right so I it seems that You know, maybe they're under some cover and obviously the heat's coming from above So maybe flicking upside down is their way of getting those eggs up against the warmest possible Surface they can without exposing themselves So I would imagine that your heat comes you're you're basically using the best so your heat's from above right out from below No, my heat is uh, with heat tape from the back Oh from the back. Okay. All right, and my then that nest box isn't on the heat either I also think it must have something to do with just comfort because They'll do it whether they're basking or not Have you guys ever noticed Uh, just in general like maybe a couple days before I've noticed with carpets But i'm just curious with other species of pythons that they kind of twist themselves into like the buzz Uncomfortable looking pretzel knot that you could imagine It's usually been a sort of a Assign that like she's gonna lay in about two days for me. Have you ever noticed anything like that? um for me I typically I look for um what I call um their their head under position and It's usually like throughout after the pre-lays said They bask a lot and they'll turn upside down quite a bit but a couple days or A day before they lay I'll notice that the female's head tends to be on the bottom Okay, I'm underneath underneath the tail and underneath the rest of the body And that's when I know okay. It's getting close Okay So I guess my next question would be as far as you have the eggs What's the time frame for them to hatch are they um longer time frame or 50 days, I believe it was uh 61 days and 62 days on the first two classes And I guess my next question would be this since you're again preated multiple species of pythons successfully You know, I've heard people say that they're lowering the temps As far as their incubation they were incubators set what what's your thoughts? Where are you shooting for? Um, I've done that I've a couple years ago. I went to a walk-in incubator. Um, so I have the uh The temperature probe is in the basically in the middle and I had it set at 88.5 Uh what I was finding was my very top shelf was quite warmer quite a bit warmer than that Um, so I've backed it down to 88 and I get a pretty good Range of uh temperatures that way so certain species I can stick closer to the floor and other things I can stick higher Okay Cool Now, okay, so you've gone the the whole distance of breeding them. You've got the eggs. They've hatched um Any special requirements for the babies? I would imagine that Like we talked earlier hydration is a big issue with these guys is uh, are we looking at sheds typical within pythons or is it somewhere like it's not like blood pythons is it? No, no, uh, they definitely they go right into shed. Um, it's it's hilarious when they hatch they're completely doffle They are huge They have the giant yolk sex and they are like so tractable and mellow the first time Um two years ago when my first clutch hatched I was out of town And uh, I told my wife, you know, you're gonna have to pull the babies and you got them way each one individually And uh, you put it away and I basically told her there's gonna be a lot of bloodletting And uh, she called me and looked like oh, they didn't even put up a fight. They were perfectly mellow And I I thought that was hilarious when I got home. They were still still like that. Uh, but basically after that first shed That's when they they uh turn so speak Wow, they became white lives. Oh, they have huge yolk. They don't they don't seem to uh, they they don't show much interest in eating for For a while Uh, but they're not hard like Ross and marcek writes that they're hard to get to eat in their book And that is completely not the case. They just If you put a lot of when they're ready when they burn through that yolk sex and when they're ready and you put a lot Fuzzy or hopper in there. It's They're gonna destroy it They don't have they don't have to be up on a purge or any fancy, you know I think a lot of people make a mistake of I think trying to feed them pinkies and I I if I dropped a pinky in there They probably wouldn't eat it. I mean, it's that's not that's a tiny meal. That's not moving You know You put a large crawler, uh, you know small hopper in there and they They're seeking destroying machines. In fact, usually if they don't eat it's because They've grabbed theirs and killed it before the one next to them and then the one next to them makes a commotion and so they Stop what they're doing to look at what's going on next door They're easily distracted. Okay. Yeah, so I I typically uh if i'm feeding my baby pythons Everybody but them I'll drop their food in and i'll leave the room because if you're in there moving around They they'll grab it and kill it but if if you're in there and they can see you moving around they will Stop what they're doing to uh, you know to be ready to fight you Okay, um All right, so and again no specific time frame that you're feeding these guys just No, I mean once they stand out it's kind of mean it typically I think it was uh I think you probably could have tried feeding them two weeks after they shed, but I don't think I bothered I think I don't think I offered them food so I think it was five weeks maybe five or six weeks after they shed Okay, but I guess part of that I I think that patient comes with experience with a lot of people I think feeding is a the human condition. We feel like It's a way for us to judge how happy an animal is and so Yeah, it's uh, it's reassuring to us that they eat and so we're the ones that want them to eat right away And if they don't then we panic You know So now I usually just go well. I'm just not gonna bother till they're good and hungry and then they always always eat It's a lot less stressful that way, but I think that just comes with patience and you know having done this for a while Yeah Not that uh, not the carpets and white lips are the same, but um, I follow suit with the same thing You know, if they don't eat, I don't I don't stress about it. I've noticed that uh, some will go a little longer I've had one go three months. No food You know try to offer that didn't eat and then all of a sudden it just turns on just Now it's time to eat Yeah, yeah They're pretty similar, you know scrappy long skinny little babies Um, you know the black the white lips are A lot stockier. They're definitely way substantially more Than uh, or the southern do I haven't produced in northern so I understand they're quite a bit smaller. I guess What's the weight on the average average baby? What are we talking gram wise average baby? Uh, I think it was like 80 some to 80 grams the first year and 60 something will turn it 68 Wow They are big. Okay A carpet a carpet baby is probably longer like I think they hatch longer, but They're not they're they don't have the bulk My carpets typically hatch maybe 22 to 25 grams. That's usually where Mine. Yeah, I haven't I I've read a ij's last year and that was the first time I bred carpets since i think 2005 so I don't know It had been a while Cool Well, that's my favorite ones. Okay. Um, and anything special with temps as far as these guys I guess I would tie this question into and get your thoughts again being as the being a python guru. Do you start putting your babies into the same Uh regimen that you would have your adults in meaning like when they cool down do you cool everything down or do you keep them separate and Not give them a cool down Wow when I first Moved out here. I only had one snake building or one snake room. And so I had them I had the babies in the same room as the adults, which is what I prefer Um, the babies would get cycled right along with the adults And uh, I would feed them all through the cycle. I never had any problems with that. Um, I prefer that method Uh, currently I have my babies in a different room because I just needed more room And the only the only addition I could do would be it was a really skinny narrow room And so obviously baby racks are the only thing that fits in there Um, if I had my brothers, I would have my babies in with my adult Do would you say that that leads to better successes? Because my thinking is how I approach it is that they'll be dialed in You know by the time they're ready definitely definitely though. Definitely. Okay There's in my opinion. There's no doubt about it If you if you produce your most of your breeder animals and you've raised them And they've experienced your conditions their whole life. I think they're I mean, I don't that it can't it's got to be the best way They know what they're going to get every year No, it's just going to happen Right. Nice Very cool. So, uh, ryan, we wanted to get your like Opinion on the white lip situations that like that are kind of like current and Stuff, uh With the black phase, uh, they seem they're never used to be This talk of locality stuff until I think it was maybe last year or the year before When they started bringing in Tamika's and now they have this Other brand new locality of black phase white lip. Um, like what's your take on that? Do you kind of You know, are you kind of like oh cool like really nice localities or is it the black phase white lip everybody shut up? so um I I mean, I think it's pretty indistinguishable one from the other I and I don't believe there's a broken distribution From you know, you're basically if you're saying the ones are collected near Tamika Um, that would be the extreme north West And that would be basically where black white lips aim as a species they would they wouldn't They don't go any farther than that Uh, okay, the tom the tomohara region is north of, uh, um, maruki and that would be the extreme East of their range that we have access to them They continue their range continues all the way through the top of the guinea side um That you know, it's the same species throughout Uh, but as far as what we can get in captivity Poppa new guinea is much like australia. No, no import export. So everything, uh comes from west poppa Um I think it's interesting. I believe there's probably something to you know obviously dan posted that video the animals are here to be boppled, but I find it interesting If you look in the history of her pedicultures, southerners were basically always considered the more docile species though for people that like, uh You know, docile southerners is a new thing kind of blows my mind, but I guess Yeah, whatever But that group does that group seems to be you know exceptionally mellow overall Is there something to that? Probably but I You know, I've caught rosy boas. I've never had a wild rosy boat bite me But every captive bread rose go I've ever had bite the shit out of me. So Yeah, I want to see I want to see some captive bread babies. So yeah, it's uh But there definitely seems to be something to it and you know I think it's interesting, but I doubt that's the first animals to ever come in from that region They've just come in from wherever if anybody ever came in Yeah, I know this actually telling you where that's the only difference that doesn't you know, it doesn't Exactly now they're trying to get another angle on this We've always been bringing blackberries wet lips from who cares where so Now all of a sudden we care. Oh, I don't know I mean if it proves out that they are more mellow all the way through, you know captive generation That's an interesting thing. It doesn't it's it's taxonomically. It's going to make no difference. There there's no It's no subspecies or species like I've heard a few people talk about it. That's completely ridiculous, but um You know, it's uh Yeah, I find it interesting. So I had the opportunity to get some I might I'd be curious to you know, if it's a true that that uh mellow Attitude if that if it goes through multi-generations, that's interesting. I would like that, but I don't want I've seen a lot of wild cops makes a remember and then the captain beds went so Time time is yet to tell the tale Yeah, that is true. My my most iconic lip was a captain born to bread boy That I think there's something that happened. They don't they don't have the fear of a well They have no good evening Now all right I got a quick question when these guys uh, I was talking to rob stone earlier about you know white lips and When he was talking about how when these guys bite how they kind of like True, they don't bite straight on they kind of bite from the like they swipe from the side or something Have you have you noticed that as well or is that? um You know, I don't I don't know I would say that like he talking about biting like they're biting him or biting food What was he biting him what was biting him problem. Yeah, oh Well, I could see where if you were saying biting you you know most snakes that are biting you you're holding them Your arms are either to one side or the other of them So I could see where you know you would but when they attack food, it's you know head-on sole force Magnificent constricting ability But my uh, you know both even my even my uh, northerners are are very once you get them out of the cage they I would let my daughters hold them. They're completely mellow. So that's all I wouldn't I haven't had I haven't had a real psycho one in a few years So and if I did I just wouldn't hold it Don't touch that one. All right. Yeah, we all have that snake in our collection else They don't like me. I'm not gonna force it. Yeah, right What is quite on? Yeah but the I know in something else we were talking about earlier was um All the different I don't know. I it's kind of like some of the things out there say that there's a bunch of different species or subspecies of white lips and then There was that one video over the summer, which I'm sure you probably got tagged in a million times Ryan was that red white lip Yeah Yeah, like what like is do you think it was? One of those species that we've never seen did someone soak a snake in Kool-Aid Possibly was possible. All right. So it was just kind of like a I actually if you want to know my personal opinion. I think we probably happened was um You probably had A snake bag or a pillowcase or something like that. That was dyed red red is typically not a very stable color um And you probably had a white lip python in there peeing on it and making it all wet and nasty and sitting in it for however many days and uh So if you go if you go on the assumption. It was not done on purpose Then that was probably the likely explanation is that it just happened to be in a red bag of some kind that when mixed will white lip probably uh You know rain white lip tea whatever um painted the snake red Or you could go on the assumption that somebody was trying to make some money And actually actually dyed it red. I've seen People do it with uh north american colubrid And so it looked exactly like uh I think it was a speckled king. I saw somebody do that with so I'm sure once it's i'm sure once it's shared you couldn't tell Well, we we saw somebody uh, we've seen somebody spray paint a carpet python completely black though. Yeah, it's not within the realm Not within the realm of possibility of somebody trying to make some money. So Yeah, I and I doubt uh, I doubt whatever the species But they think is red in the wild. I doubt it's actually red Yeah red or just red. I mean red is just not a python color pretty much blood pythons and that's it pick me pythons in red light Ah, they are reddish at best, but Do you know a true red like that is pretty much blood python? That's it True Red is not a python color Baby green pythons, I guess Baby ones Yeah, and even that and even that there uh seem to be you know wanting to lose that ability Quickly, yeah All right, so now we uh now we know and everybody cannot get don't get too excited people Well, if it was really red, you'd still see it, right? I mean people still be here. Here's my red. Yeah, but you don't It's gone. Yeah, because the one video I've never seen it again. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point If somebody had bought that thing and had a red White lip python you would you would probably see a picture of it every other day. So it clearly it Clearly does not probably look like that after it should no the the wet lip um what is it the t neck or t is the albino or whatever just they're calling that thing um Uh, that's like the only morph that is I get I'm put like big quotations around morph of white lip that you're aware of correct That yeah, the perfect sonic had an animal years ago that was similar to that, but they never reproduced it Um, yeah, that guy has made hets, but he has not proved them out yet Uh, but apparently I mean you can look at that thing and you pretty much know That's a single gene mutation of some sort whether you want to call it a hyper with cheap positive whenever it's It's um, I'm sure it will prove out once uh You can get the heads to do something Yeah, the heads should be about big enough to go now That would be cool Yeah, that's a stunning snake. That's so pretty nice talking Man, I've seen it everywhere. So it would be nice to kind of get some more and then they can tempt me away from more of my money So, all right Awesome All right, um, I guess uh, I would I'd be curious about What uh, I know this is a little off topic of white bullet pythons, but what's your most anticipated uh breeding of this season? Thing you're looking forward to the most Um probably Brettles python Just like I just want to check the box man So I'm hoping uh, I've had them for several years and like I said, I never I never took them any cooler and they never showed any interest in doing anything So I hope that since I actually did take them cooler than maybe they'll uh do something. So I'd like to check that box be Get that monkey off my back Cool. I love that that's your answer because like you have like Mac lots and you know other fun stuff and you know, oh, I mean, I hope all of it goes All of them all they go Yeah The, um, mac lots are always fun to produce Saw those fun to produce But I guess when you've done it a few times you're looking you're looking for that naggy chasing that next time Yeah, the next one up. Yeah So When you check off the uh The gold white lips off of your off your list what what's like the next uh species of python that You feel you need to tackle Um, well, any of the species that I have that I haven't bred Well, that would probably The gold white lips, I guess I just I shouldn't revise my statement and I would be I'd be way more excited to read The gold white lips from the bread light, but I guess I I'm not confident in In the gold we have to all uh But um, yeah, so I mean You know anything key more pythons will probably be I'll probably really start to feed them up and thinking about caring about them Um, how are you guys? Oh, hi my hair scrubs Yeah Cool probably try them So, you know Onwards upwards So any anything special uh that you're doing as far as how my hair scrubs that I mean That's one of those species. It's kind of like You don't really there's no information out there on them. They haven't been bred in captivity. You just Watch and pay attention or Yeah, just uh You know luckily the female that I got came in pretty young the male came in and just I mean I I thought I was throwing good money away when I bought it. I didn't think it would live but it's uh It's doing it's done really well. Sorry just uh keep doing what i'm doing and You know my attitude most of this stuff anymore. I don't I don't try to do I used to try to do a lot that I thought stuff needed and now I kind of just do what i'm doing and and hope it works Oh Wow Brian has everything I want. I mean Like we were talking about how I need to throw my wallet out the window before I buy a pair of theme wars today. So, um Yeah, that's my favorite species of hate Usually visually I would have to put them as one of the most stunning fights on species just gorgeous From a visual standpoint. They just are I mean they're crazy looking they look like I mean they look like a mad scientist bad experiment going wrong. They they're like patternless in the back and they you know That's better. They're like a brown patternless snake in the rear that turns into like a pixelated gold species in the front It's just a weird. Yeah. Yeah, that's not a very weird snake. I think they're beautiful uh I don't love maintaining them. You know, they pee a lot and I you know, but I guess it's uh, it's my third girl having me Yeah, I'll take it out the last time You had traded them and then got them again and then traded them and got them Yeah, I could just look at them and not have to you know, if I could have an employee just to clean their cage Then I'd probably have a camera Uh Yeah, I keep going. Oh in the same thing. He's gonna get them and then he's gonna get the call Dude, do you think that you would want these? They're not bad if you don't look at them. You know, if you don't give them any reason to get excited, they're fine But They just start eating That's the same thing with the minikin red mountain boa. You you touch it and it just starts oozing out the back and you're like, why? I don't know if they're as bad as those epicrates or whatever. I I've had some flowers and uh You know, Jamaicans and Puerto Rican from those things were I mean, I don't even know why anybody's bothered That egg yolks now even comes out of them is unreal So I have mad respect for anybody who keeps those long term and can handle it I have nothing to love and respect those people because I couldn't do it Babies were oh god. I hated them. Uh, anyway, like what? In Jeff Murray and those guys got mad respect and keeps up all this and love those things Edgar fortune those guys. I mean I you got my respect If the team was better than the upper treaties, I'll like I think that would be a step up in the world in my opinion So I'll get rid of them and I'll be like, yes, these things only p half the time Yeah, I think it's it's it's not something necessarily p half the time. It's just not quite as sticky and might not stink as bad So it's so it's degrees of nasty I'm so I'm done He thinks the hell out of my house so But that and it's The whole thing with sending the team words eric would probably happen, but he Just send me more lysces. So we'd be right back where we are right now. I mean, yeah, there you go He keeps sending me mad about your limitations. I guess Yeah, no, I mean, I don't know I I don't know. I'm I'm kind of I'll observe them from afar. I think they're beautiful. Their head scales are amazing Um, it's almost like retic-ish kind of without being a retic um And uh They're really cool, but I don't know. I think it I think it will be like my experience with scrubs It's like when they become adults and they just want to heat your face. It's like um I don't know In my sense, they're not too bitey. They just want to pee and flee. So Wow I mean, they will bite you, but they don't it doesn't seem to be their main, you know Detracting to messing with them. They seem to much prefer to just try to get away I think we uh Good now I was going to say There's a question here. We got a question here. So So kj has a question over here in the chat He says that he's heard that timos are essentially an early hybridization between scrubs and retics When he sees his crush. Oh, she on it. It was all connected. Is there any valid Is there no that a valid theory at all? No No, okay. No, that's all I started is people trying to describe it what a timber python look like People used to say oh, it looks like a cross between a retook and a strobe Well, right that is not Not valid I would agree make some sense Okay All right Here, I thought it was like this kind of a show it was like all right, you know I already I already know I really really really want more white lips So i'm not going to take away from the show wanting a new species of snake And here we are talking about Timor python and i'm screwed So, you know Uh, nice well, you got to have them all Oh Baseball cards How many species of your bread you got to get them all man. You got them off them all out of some point That would be awesome I wouldn't know what to do with myself afterwards like eventually eventually just hit the like Basically just going to hit the plateaus which are like the helmet hair. I'm not I'm not even halfway yet What do you do then just get another room and start you I guess I knocked out 20 so far, but I still got what 35 to go something like that Nice 20 that's pretty impressive nice Presence have you bred like a barnex or anything like that just the tannin bars, right? Just nauta in the uh, okay. Yeah, just nalta Yeah, I got a long ways. I think what uh vpr I think bread 31 species they're in the lead 31 wow 31 species jesus and I think the closest after that 22 I think huh Wow I'm over here. My eye and that I keep I can't breathe half of them, but I have them So quick. I'm like, yeah I can't even get out of the genus Morellia, man Well, that's the point you got there's a lot of them in there So I got to get back on the morellia trains so I can knock out some of Uh, not get my pad my numbers a little bit Yeah, if you ever thought about getting inlands, you don't work with inlands. Do you a cafe? I know i'm probably gonna get some of this year though. Yeah, they're really cool. Yeah, I love those snakes so underrated. I got Darwin so They're speaking of darway old enough to breed but they're way tiny so yeah, you're picking up the calendar this bro Yeah, yeah Actually ryan come on. Yeah Beautiful snake. I love darwinds. I think they're uh, yeah, i'm looking for appreciate Looking forward to pairing them up Do you think uh, are you gonna approach them the same as you do? Uh, like ijays? Is that gonna be your approach? Yeah, I mean, I typically I'll I'll do the norm first and if it works great, it's not then I'll you know have to rethink it but I don't I haven't heard anything to make me think that they're not gonna breed you know standard issue with I've heard that they have to be like the red line and the calf bar as well. So we're done. Yeah And the diamonds yeah Yeah diamonds Well, eventually one day when we have embracata One day we'll be able to see what they're like One day my friend one day. I don't know when but You know the german port hole will open and On the other side, uh, we'll pop out some maralia and bracata and i'm like, oh, how did these get here? Yeah Ryan since you work with like green trees and like scrubs any interest in caranata ruffskas I gotta I got a ton of interest in ruffskails. Um I haven't pulled the trigger yet, mainly Uh, I didn't want to buy them from who was selling them. So that's uh, We'll figure out wait for some of the hobbyists to produce them Then i'll guide me There you go. Yeah, I'm afraid I kind of You know, I've had quite a bit of stuff and sometimes the anticipation for things is better than the actual thing Um, I don't think that's gonna. I I do not believe that Um, I will there'll be a letdown with caranata. I in fact, you know given that my favorite species is their closest relative I uh, i'm sure i'll be head over heels for them, but um You know, I remember back in the early 90s when you never thought you'd even see one yet alone have a chance to have one so Yeah 20 years of wanting like a couple more Yeah, right Okay So the the last thing so the last thing we'll hit on before we uh before we jump off is um Currently, uh, there's some fans out there that are fans of you're a rue python, uh, rue conjure's Any any anything going on this year with your, uh, a rue project? Um, well my uh My main female went last year. So I uh, I was hoping that a couple of my younger ones would be ready to go But so far you put a male in there and they just run from them still Doesn't look promising for this year. So I have a feeling it's going to be on a rue baby free year But i've uh, I'll enjoy raising up the ones from last year and seeing how they turn out and look forward to a better shot next year I'll do ones that uh that are that you're growing up are you seeing any of the uh, the high white coming through on those Yeah, oh, yeah, the two females that I produced in 2010 are off the charts crazy the one of the one of the ones that I produced in 2013 is I would say above average and then i've got the babies from last year. So So the interesting thing is yeah, they're trying So you feel you're cracking the uh, the code of the high white condro is you know You feel your problem? I don't know I I I mean I have my opinions on this on the matter. I don't so It's time will tell if it's correct or not. Okay Well, all right Yeah, they're cool. I I find my favorite of the condros to be The marockeys because I I like the white stripe and the green snake I think there's nothing better than than that look Yeah, I I love the maroches. I used to I had a couple and but When I started focusing on the arous. I didn't want anybody to accuse me of You know breathing the gas. I got rid of them The python police will get you Yeah, doing that. Yeah Well, and I want to you know I want to be able to keep all my babies and raise them up because I think that's a big key making sure you end up with the best babies to raise up again Right, um I can't I mean I just can't in perpetuity keep you know trying to breathe for high white stripe high white this You know, you can only do so much so Sure, I decided that I wanted to focus on those but I mean I have I've gotten I've got the northern species again, so Oh, cool. Let's see what happened I've read from the various Awesome You uh, you can definitely tell it tell a difference between those two when you see them next to each other for sure Oh, okay, I mean you could tell it was pretty obvious when I first got into it, but It's like uh, see one of the all-year-old babies Oh whatever Cool All right, so um, they will forever hold on to their one species uh It'll be hard to know I know there was a big this there was a big discussion about that on one of the scrub scrub boards, uh Facebook groups and uh, you know You know, they're making a thing about you know breathing crossing species or localities and whatnot You know, my feeling is is that it's gonna fall follow the same thing as um What happened with chondros, you know, if if it doesn't mean, I don't know it seems to make sense to me that if Chondros are separated by the mountain and you know, um You have northern species in the southern species. You have it with white lips Why wouldn't it be the same with scrubs? Why would they be different? It I don't know They are different is they have not been taxonomically separated yet, but they're clearly Everything that occurs on both sides of the mountains is different Right Cats castellaries on both sides of the mountains are different species Right almost every animal that's closely related that occurs on both sides of the mountains. We get different species Right That's what I was trying to argue with uh with people, you know trying to explain That at one point they're going to be different species and you would have had mixed them And that would be no different than breeding a brettled jag, you know It really won't you know But for some reason if you breed a brettled jag or a carpundra that's evil, but if you breed You know an aruru to a bee ox, that's okay You know why I mean there's a different culture though. I mean those the um the green python people for years. I mean, it's one of the most There's been more effort probably put into that This let's just say species instead of two species There was more effort in her pediculture so for that species than almost any other species Right, but if you go back far enough They didn't they didn't know anything about I mean they knew it was coming from new guinea Or india Right, they didn't you know, so they were lucky to get whatever they could get and so they bred those animals together and They uh, you know, they created a whole captive lineage of animals that you know from just wherever they could get and it wasn't until I think the early 90s that They actually started coming in And saying oh, this is a bioc and this is an aruru and this is that and it's uh you know caused quite a stir because People some people wanted those and other people that were already well invested in the green pythons didn't like it because They didn't want it to devalue what they were doing and so obviously a very concerted effort to You know to basically You know show that they there was no difference. There's nothing special. You don't know anything about them You know by what we're doing support us and I do I support captive breeding. I'm not I'm not against You know that but at the same time You know, you shouldn't Just because you don't agree with something or don't like it. Don't necessarily Mean you're just a troop. Don't ruin that Yeah I was kicked. I was kicked off of a forum years ago I didn't fit in my opinion on such things You didn't drink the Kool-Aid fair enough Um, all right. So if somebody wants to get in touch with you ryan throw your info out there so they can Follow what you have going on Oh, yeah, I mean, um, I'm easy to get ahold of my website is www.molecularreptile.com I have a facebook page. I have a personal facebook page Um, you're all you know welcome to get in touch with me. Anyway, you want so phone numbers on all the pages Do you want to chat? I'm available Awesome Well, I appreciate you coming on and talking white live pythons with us and uh, I hope you have uh, you know Great rest of your season and hit that red line so you can check it off I hope so All right. Have a good night ryan You too take care Thanks ryan All right, so did you get your uh white lip fix there Owen? Are you uh? Yeah, I did and now i want to begin. I mean I do have How many golds do I have right now? I have 1.2 Baby gold, uh-huh, right and then I have then I have this project that I've been keeping you secret from you as well as everybody else Uh, now I have one point. I have 1.1 adults Golds that are together. And I I know So I have them and I don't know. I am I am revoking. Wait a minute. Hold on stop the stop the phone You already revoked it. You already revoked the one part. I am revoking your ep derailleur Uh, guest host discount card Keeping things from me. Oh my goodness Can't revoke that card it's unprovocable You shut up. I have a stretch. Um, oh my god. Anyway, we'll we'll have this argument up there But See, I'm hoping for them, but you you you know and you know it's been like stuck in my frickin crawl Since that tingly park show with Chad, um Where I don't have blackface white lips. Um, I mean and I absolutely love blackface white lips I have one tattooed on my body. I do not have any blackface white lips here So It's been this constant gnawing thing at the back of my head So you know, I'm not going to let another summer go by without blackface white lips But then of course, I'm like I would also like another pair of scales I'd also like some, you know, mid-calfi. I would also like to eat maybe at some point this summer. So, you know, there's A lot of stuff but white lips just so close to the top and they're so cool I mean, I remember taking you to go see all the white lips And I'm like aren't these things amazing? You're like, I love the berm and I'm like, god damn it I do remember that stupid frickin berm like Well, let's let me let me recreate that trip real quick. It was so you can get an idea of why Anyway, we go into this room, which is like what was called site b Which but it's upon entering the room has all the Uh, what I would call miscellaneous pythons that you could imagine. I mean, there's like a evil python A 10 foot morocchi scrub and a cage. Yeah Um, which I never saw scrubbed that big as an adult. You know, so I'm like, holy shit Uh, really impressed with that. Yeah, and he pulls that up and the uh The other ones there, but yeah, go ahead. Yeah, chris pulls out the Well, your olive pythons were tiny at that point, but chris pulls out. They were so teeny. Yeah He pulls out of that He pulls out a big huge Uh, white led python and it's just It's just biting him. It's biting the air. Oh, yeah That one. Yeah, we got rid of that one I didn't like that one. No sudden movements. It's you know Yeah, me and Zach are cowering in a corner like oh my god How are we gonna get out? There there were a few of them that were like Open the door and it was death now and I totally attribute that to them being We got them as adults. So I mean they had moved from place to place to place to place the place where they finally arrived to us And they were all psychotic. I mean right now the three white lives that i'm raising up the babies The girls are beautiful. They're fine. They're uh, well one I got from steve till his last year She's a little twitchy, but right out of the cage. She's totally fine The little baby girl, uh, that I got from shawnee's a breeder up here Who produced four of them? She's amazing. She's incredible. She never puts up a bad flight never does anything Then the male who I got he's a he's a wild caught that I got as a tiny little baby He's a dick and I mean he's he he runs you pisses he bites And all I can think about is all I need now is for one person like Chad to have gold face white lips this year Your ass is out of here. I don't get me a voice from somebody else, but right? It's it's just like that where sometimes it's a crapshoot, but of course If it's a crapshoot and you get a nasty one, but you've been feeding at guinea pigs for the past three years now you have this 10 foot long evil like Rockin with teeth and that's what our gold face project was right here's with just these Huge animals that did not care about breeding and Have these huge chips on their shoulders and just I like the amount of stress that they would go through for them and me For cleaning because I had to move them out and that's I'm moving them. They're trying to bite me there freaking out There was no way those animals were ever going to breed. They would never calm down That's why I don't have any white lips right now is we're still rebuilding that So Well, yeah, that was your first explosion so much. Yeah pretty much I like what here's yeah, it was great. Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah This might be one of those species that I admire from afar Yeah, you know so yeah, so I was black face white lips are going to happen again and uh so For me what Gary is is that uh, I was telling you before we came on the air. I'm in the process of uh Of getting a house, right? So yeah um Yeah, one of the cool things it's funny. You know, my sister is uh as the realtor and um You know, she gave us she gave us these houses to check out and you know, my stipulation is what does the basement look like? it's like you're like what what is uh the basement look like and uh, how big is it and you know, there's just one house is a beautiful house the basement has all these like uh, you know, like closets all along the wall And I'm like, well, this isn't going to work because I can't put cages in front of that. That's not going to work. Um, so you know, I'm passing on houses and um, I'm just looking for that perfect, uh, you know basement Um, and my fear is this is now. I'm gonna have I'm I'm gonna be going from a room that Is pretty much, you know Every corner of that room is taken up by cage Space and I'm gonna go and plop that collection into a big huge room and say oh shit. I got so much space That's a problem. You're gonna do that and then you're gonna get a bunch of racks and you're like in where do all the space go? I mean like The way I have mine drawn up is I'm gonna get two new cages for the olive pythons because they need them and then I'm gonna be maxed down on space again Well, I've been I don't know. I'm trying to put this in um in in theory. It sounds good, but one of my approaches is going to be um to I did this before in my old reptile room is to Have two different rooms one that's going to be warmer. Mm-hmm where I keep the uh, you know, the northern species and one that would be Cooler where I would keep the southern species, you know like diamonds and red light and yeah in lens and stuff like that um and uh a quarantine room and You know quarantine is always important in my opinion. So That would that if you can get a quarantine room. That's awesome. Yeah, so uh, that's kind of like Kind of going to be my approach. Um You know, it it may take a little while, but uh, you know, my fear is is that Like just like you had the previous year Moving and your season getting all Yeah, I'm up and I do I'm still not a hundred percent in my opinion Um just because this this year I had a bunch of males that didn't go ahead a bunch of females that are Not going you're kind of going. You don't really care and I had I had one or two ri's that hit some of my older males that never happened before Still I'm not a hundred percent on this one. So it's like I'm still learning it's gonna take you A year or two to get back into the swinging things which yeah And it's funny because you know, I was talking with Nick last year. He goes, you know, what do you want? You know, I usually put in an order for one or two animals within me, you know like this summer And he goes, so do you want the chair? I'm like a key below. Oh my god had a really bad season He goes no snake money. I'm like no snake money I didn't get that faithful snake money from selling the babies and he's like that does suck and that will happen But you're covered so you want the all the time. I'm like, oh, it's like, you know, there was he was kept going. So it's like It sucks, but you do you do bounce back. It just takes a bit. It's almost like re-learning Everything you've learned over the past three years four years. However long you've been breathing Enjoy it's going to be uh, it's going to be interesting for sure But I think once uh, once everything's settled in, you know, you know, I'm there long-term So it's not like not going to be going anywhere or anything like that My suggestion and something that I totally screwed up on is if you have a grand plan for the room Buy the house and do everything like to a T and then bring the snakes in like dude I was walking around with that a door for a while And it's like I really should have done that before there are animals in there. It's like, you know, do everything Immediately and then bring the animals. I screwed that up. Don't do what Owen does Also, don't move them in the middle of a snowstorm. So I was talking to rob about that earlier. I'm like, uh, so I've learned everything what not to do. Oh, it's an idiot. Yeah Like, oh man, well, I mean, you know, you didn't really have a choice in the matter It is it's got like your time was it's time. So that we know it's closing Yeah But uh, no, I I'm gonna have it planned out a lot Well better. I hope you know, I don't want to be moving in the winter I don't want to be moving in the summer and and basically yeah, I uh, I would actually be to be at my house Because right now I rent. So basically, I would pay to be here an extra Just to make sure that uh, everything Up the par temperature wise and all that smart everything was working you can Yeah You know, it's yeah cool because We uh one of the cool thing and this is going to sound stupid But these are the little things that I think about I have um from my From my work. They have like those large stainless steel tables You know, those were amazing. You know, I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Well. Yeah, I already have I already have two of them Because they were thrown away and I'm like, oh, this is gonna be so good Oh my god You know like oh my god What am I gonna do? I told you if you see any like big utility things hide it just grab it and I'll come down and get it So But it's like to have that kind of stuff hanging in the background To to eventually start doing it like eventually you're just gonna This is the snake room you've always wanted to build and that's why I think moving for a reptile guy is ridiculous or girl Like moving for a reptile person is incredible because you sit there in that big empty space and you go Oh my god. I get all the things I can do and the cases I can put here And then eventually the voice of reason steps in and stops you from putting them in every single room in the house But to make the room that you're going to be doing your main stuff in the way you want it to be What you've always kind of pictured it is awesome and it may not Come together all quickly like I'm like I told you I wanted to get the utility sink downstairs I'm still working on that and a few other things, but eventually this will be the way I want it to be So yeah, another thing about putting it at the ward and stuff, but yeah, good. Another thing which I don't know I don't I'm sure it's relatively simple to hook up But you know how they have those hose hookups on the wall where you just have like a hose and take it off Andrew has one of those first monitors and I'm like that is amazing Yeah I gotta find a way to plummet and yeah, don yeah hashtag herper streams, you know, like oh, I'm so excited about a sink I'm not gonna go to the bathroom doors Yeah Oh man, but uh, I think at that point I will definitely move to uh to um more cages for a lot of my carpets, you know Um Well, I know a lot of you guys are getting on the bigger side now too, right? Yeah, yeah, I have a lot of uh animals that are Are are coming up to stop, but even my even my bigger ones are not even really that big But still I mean big enough to where it would warrant like a four foot cage or three footer Probably even a three footer I could get away with what are yours? Are yours three foot or four foot? I have I have both fours injuries Okay, what's your like your main boars? Oh your carpets. I have Well, the main here's thing the boys the boy carpets as well as some of the smaller females are in three quarters Then I have the remnants of what I used to do and then I have my monsters and they're all in four quarters so it's like there are certain carpets that will fit in the four footer and There's certain ones that will fit in the three footer and now that I'm kind of got to the point where if a male starts breathing He stops seeing food regularly and stuff, but that because now I don't need to get any bigger. You're doing what you do Right Girls I'll let get a little bit bigger So I have some animals that are going into the four quarters But of course there are some animals that are using the four footers that aren't carpet vitamins like, you know, the max Uh, right the olives are in fours right now, but they're moving into sixes so You know, it's give and take but mostly I have more four footers than I do three But a lot of carpets can get away in the threes So right yep cool All right, um, let's see. I don't know if there's anything else really to hit on I don't know. Do you got anything else that you want to head on? Uh, I got a show coming up in that hamburger and everybody should pressure eric to come with me so that he can come to hamburger I think I 90% into that like I have a little bit of a bump in the road with my work, but if worst case scenario it would be I would be Showing up a little later, but um, that's fine Yeah More than likely I will I would definitely be there so And then that all I got is really nothing else. I want to get on it What do we got going on next week? All right, so next week is um a possibility that I won't be here But uh, oh my god Um doing that again. You promised me. Yeah, I'm gonna try my best, but um, I will be in florida And I don't I don't know we'll see but anyway, that's sure that's lined up is uh, believe it or not It's a carpondro show wait a minute. You're gonna leave me and then you're gonna do a carpondro show. It's bill isn't it? Bill is coming in it. Yes bill is bill is coming. All right. Um, and um You know to it we have john m and then we have john Bataglia, uh, we'll be uh joining as well talk about con our carpondros Um, oh my god Love them hate them. You know What's your uh, what's the take on what your pick your poison? Yeah Yeah, so uh, it should be cool. I think I think it'll be a it'll be a good show But uh, hopefully I can try even if i'm a little late to the party. I might be able to come on now later, so um That we got that then um the week after that Um, I counted in front of me. I want to say He's after that. Uh I can't remember off the top of my head. I know we have some cool carpet shows coming up Um, do what i'm really looking forward to is uh, our friend darin wittaker um Talking about the history on the silver pepper inland Uh, that's why we can't have them and he has them all. Yeah. Yeah, so He hasn't even released them in all the trial yet yet. So, uh, again Everybody it's it's a whole show about how darin has these things and all we can do is look. Yes, bad show Because I want them all be psyched up. We'll be very upset. Yeah, yeah Uh, okay, uh, so yeah tune into that one. That's uh, first first week in march And I think after that sometime we're gonna go, uh, with the, um, venomous show that we missed we'll be hitting with uh, Yes, with scott, um And, uh, that that'll be fun. Um, um, I I don't even know how to really approach approach that like what you know, like What's important what what shouldn't we touch scott everything? Okay. Yeah I have never You never handled venomous have you? But you need your dad a bunch of venomous. Yeah, I think i mean Yeah, yeah, over his house. I've handled I've handled a cobra and a gaboon viper and i'm still alive But you know This did they're not king browns. So I mean No Australia level man You know, yeah So like forest cobras on steroids. It's like no So Um, no dude, so that'll be an interesting show. Yeah, no doubt. Um So, yeah, I'm looking forward to that. So I guess what I would throw out there is that if you guys have any um You know questions or things that you would want to hit on obviously would be geared towards australian Uh venomous snakes, uh, is kind of what god's specialty is um We will uh We will get that in for you. Um, I don't know if anybody have seen the uh, i'm going to throw this out there real quick I got the new scales at hail magazine Which is pretty awesome by the way. Yeah, I don't understand why people that are into uh Into australian reptiles wouldn't have this magazine um Yeah, it's pretty freaking awesome. Anyway on the front cover is I make no comment because i'm one of those people, but all right Yeah, I'll buy no Um What you have a caller? We do I don't know you you have the control panel I mean there's people but I think the message about a court Somebody just sent me a message about collar on the line Okay, they want me to click them on and whatever All right Quick Clicking hey, what's up? What is heaven? Yo, what's up, man? How you doing? I'm doing all right, man I just wanted to uh I just want to call and thank you all man because I I just love this show And y'all've done so much this hobby for this community And I mean it's just great the only problem I have is every time i tune in there's some new guy talking about Some different uh different type of snake and now here. I am thinking damn. I might need some white lips damn I don't want to check out the scrub And it's just like That I can't I can't do that Yeah, yeah, no you can I'm gonna do like going and just throw my wallet out the window Yeah, well if you do understand if you go back to the backlog when we started this show I had five coastal snets all I had so I'm pretty sure this yeah coastal part has since since been revoked Job you And i've never been around white lips and all i've all i've heard is the bad stuff about white lips But they're just so beautiful and you know you can get past the biting work with them they'll calm down No, but you can um avoid the biting by not touching them. So Then there's that There's that I mean, you know, it's just not not touch them and then yeah, but there's They're one of those species that all you ever hear is the horrible part of it and no one ever really takes a time to bring them out and show you it So yeah, go go white lips and I do I do believe that I do believe that a lot of it's going to end up being kind of like the retics I remember when they first started how how vicious they were and how nasty temper they were Once you get that captive breeding going that that viciousness kind of tends to to dissipate and it's not there as much anymore And so I think once they get started with the white lips they just keep breeding them and breeding them and then uh get those captive bred going They'll calm down Mm-hmm. I think so With uh With any species you you you'll see that Which is awesome. So They are beautiful beautiful animals for no doubt But I don't know. It's like when you don't have and here here's here's the worst part of it when you talk to all these different breeders And they get you excited about a species and then you're like you don't have any room So then you're like what am I gonna get rid of in order to get them? You know, it's like you're in this virtual here, you know, uh, man, so Yeah, I just want to tell you guys. Thanks man I appreciate the shows. I'm sure everybody does that too and doing a listen to just full information and it's wonderful and Keep it up. Oh man. Appreciate that Appreciate that No doubt and oh by the way, I hope you to Get some plane tickets and make it down here april 30th for southern carpet center Well, you know, I'll be there But i'll be there because i'll tell you what last year was a blast Um, i'm trying to get Owen into it, but you know, he's him and all That's right. That's right put me on the spot immediately on air You're gonna miss out, man. It was so much fun and I it kind of happened a little earlier this year I thought we were gonna try to make it around the same time and still kind of hitting the up and was like, hey Let's do it. I was like, let's do it And it's starting to come together and I think this year is gonna be better than last year and Owen don't miss out Well, when I I'll hook up with Eric at some point reason the soon because we gotta go over a bunch of stuff And he and I will just cut it and if I can I will be there Yeah, he'll be there If I have to sell his snakes at hamburger, he'll be there No doubt Yeah, cool, cool All right, man. Y'all take care. You too appreciate it. Yeah, you too. We'll see it That's awesome. Mm. That's always good. Yeah, you know, you know what? Oh, and I'm I'm gonna vent a little bit before we get off Okay, I'm gonna vent before you do it where you do it pause for two seconds Thank you Evan for coming on and telling us how much the show means to you If you are a fan of the show, please go over to the reptile report dot com and give us a vote for radio show of the year on the reptile report Voting and you can vote once per day for your favorite radio show. We hope that's us. All right, that's been doing Okay, so I'm a huge as you know. I have a two-hour drive Well, actually a three-hour drive total every day right back and forth to and from right? All right, so With that drive I have come to rely on podcasts as my Way to way to way to get me through. Yeah, and it's even better when I have reptile podcast But man, where's the consistency people? Good Lord Yeah I'm a huge fan of all of the shows, you know, and I understand Sad how much work how much time and how everything that goes into it. I guess the only thing I would say is that You know what? I think this is just and usually I don't say this But I think we deserve a little bit of a bump just for the consistency. Would you agree? I would agree also. I would agree just in the sole purpose of have you ever seen our fan base a week when we don't have a show We're like Something like something goes wrong or or or like the Blog talks down and we have to cancel a show they lose their freaking minds and not because like we're the most amazing host ever apart from it it's no because They now have to go find something else to listen to their commute or or while they're cleaning or while that other stuff It's like if you told if you take that away, it sucks. I mean, I don't listen to us. I I can't stand the sound of my own voice Well, yeah, I don't know on Super Bowl on Super Bowl night, right on Super Bowl night. I'm I was uh closing my store and I could give two shits about football and the rest of my employees They do So I I work with the late yesterday that they could uh, they could watch the game and whatnot But anyway, I'm thinking Or ever will be but you know, that's just for that just for Matt Yeah, but from a business point of view, Philadelphia Steelers, it's all the same Um, it makes no difference But you and I will have a conversation about that later Anyway, um, so Uh, I come out. I got a drive home. It's late at night. Usually I'm in bed at this point. Um, you know, it's like I think I got done at like 1230. So I got a bed at like nine o'clock I'm gonna get up at four o'clock in the morning. But anyway, I'm coming out and thinking all right So I'm gonna have some reptile shows to listen to on my way home. I'm like son of a bitch Damn it How mad were you and how badly were you yelling at your steering wheel? I text Rob Stone and I was just like I just put WTS Like The serial podcast is back and I know you and I have endorsed that Well, those the only other one that I listen to like that comes out consistently is uh, it's Joe Rogan But other than that, you know, it's like, you know, you get a special high like when you're listening to reptile Like I get a lot of good ideas because there's a lot of good Other, you know reptile podcasts out there and like when i'm listening to it, even though they may be talking about, you know Um the species the species that I don't know But um, you know, let me talk about you know, maybe the the hobby part of it the breeding part of the business part of it They may approach it in a different way that I I might not have thought of Anyway, you know, I'm just saying that if I know from a listener's point of view like I think the only other ones that are consistent On a regular basis that I see consistently and always bring it Is gtp keeper radio they only do it once a quarter, but Show once a quarter, you know, and Although that's not enough for my taste because man, I want to hear more I understand that this is what they they can bring and they do it consistently. So I appreciate that um But I don't know it's just kind of a silly rant but It's like come on guys step up the game and That's something you've been that's something you were preaching from day one is the consistency And I can't make sure that episode came out all week Which is why when we have those like two weeks around christmas. We don't know what to do with each other It's just like I care So, yeah, yeah, well We don't do that uh, we only do it during the christmas break simply because it's the only time that people aren't and attention You know No, no, no, I'm cares No, they're all they're all busy with their holidays and whatnot and then when it's all over they're like, yeah, they wait a minute It's been two weeks and Yeah, and we really hard to nail down a guest Like, you know, can you come all the day at the christmas? No, no, no Yeah Anyway, um, yeah, give us give us a love show us some love You know, we try to we try to make sure that you have a show every week to listen to some are better than others uh, I realize For the most part you're gonna have well for definite you're gonna have A show to live every tuesday night or wednesday morning or whatever the case may be Um, I think there's a lot of clean going on on tuesday nights a lot of snake cleaning I would be interested to see how many like because I will do my clean Uh in the beginning the week and then in the end of the week and then all the wednesday is usually when I scrub and clean all the water bowls So it's like how many people do They're cleaning around winning podcasts and stuff like that come out or if you would just rock the music or um Other stuff. I mean like it just depends, you know Yeah, I can't see wednesday. It's usually everybody's cleaning day so I uh, I remember, you know, I've said this multiple times, but you know, I used to get so Not not mad, but I would be so disappointed when I would go to listen to reptile radio on sunday going to work And you know, there would wouldn't be an episode there and for the most part those guys for years Were consistently on saturday night, you know, it'd be every saturday night. You know, like, um, so I mean Well, I was just following what they were doing, you know, and like So here's my advice if anybody out there wants to start a podcast on reptiles Freaking do it, man. Don't let anybody tell you You know, there's this if you have a species that you're into or you know, if there's uh, I don't know if there's a particular topics that you think Weren't uh some talk. Maybe you want to just talk about your particular Breeding that you're doing and you have make awesome notes and uh, you know, I don't know It's just there's a lack of it and I think there could be more of it And You know, you just got to do it and you just have to be consistent You know just be consistent. That's all half the half the battle is showing No, that's all you got to do is just show up. So when you're sitting there in your voting and thinking about Which podcast is the best? Give us a little bump because we're You know the consistent part and And share it spread the word we want to get the word out there to all the different You know people that might not know about the morality python radio because what we're trying to do is just get You know the guests that come on here or what make the show Um, they're sharing their information their experiences. Um, you know what they're years um of You know of experience of breeding and keeping the different species that we work with, you know And most of them do it. They don't get paid for it I mean, you know, no, no, no, we don't have money I don't I don't know if they get a bump from you know, I would imagine that everybody wants to species once they're You know once they hear the person talk about it when I am I do They get two customers just by talking to us, which is But uh, anyway, um Yeah So go over there vote for us show some love and rant over Good job For our website mario python radio calm If you want to get in touch with us as far as uh, you know suggestion for a show a guest question for an upcoming a guest You know something that you want us to talk about on one of our um, oh and and eric shows Uh feel free to send it to info at mario python radio calm all up show um Miss, uh, what would you say? if we have misspoken on the show or Something that's long to direct those messages to oh and mac and tyre Yeah Owen and mario python radio calm because uh, that's an email I was given that I have never actually checked So You can uh, download the show and itunes go over and follow us on itunes. Um, you know, uh, that's Facebook, um, twitter And Like the page Um That's where we put all our updates or if we see anything cool going on or whatever. So Oh, most of all, you know, just share the show just get it out there um Send it to uh You see your friends let them know about it if you think it's cool if there's a guest or topic That you think was uh, was good Uh, share it up That's all I have for that as far as myself ebe mario calm It seems like it's starting to get into the swing of going towards Uh, winter where maybe shipping weather is Winter's over. I mean so shipping weather might be a little more Uh, okay, you can do it. I guess. I don't know. What do you think? Oh, and this you're you're saying that as i'm looking at snow Coming down at my house. You said it's no. I mean Yeah, nevermind that like Yeah I'm like I got well that again This is now that you and I are an hour apart. It's not like him is the road anymore. Oh, yeah Yeah Never know no shipping Yeah, that's all that if you want anything for me never mind me tambour You have to wait. Yeah Or you can check out check out the Website of what I got going on and uh, you know, there's always payment plans stuff like that if you're Interested in anything. That's the time to do it. Yeah. Yep Be ready just for time for shipping. Um, so we there you go. That's all I got Cool. Uh what you can do for me is you can go to roge-reptiles.com. We have all the latest happenings on roge We have the breeding diary. We have pictures and bios of all the animals Um, and we have family trees for clutches for the past couple of years If you want to get leaves information just go there and look up your pairing If you don't know which pairing you got you can drop us an email send us a picture And we'll try to see what we can do for you if your pairing is not there and you would like it Let us know and we will make one up for you when I say we that means me. So it's not going to happen immediately, but it'll happen um What we got next is you go to facebook and look up roge-reptiles on facebook.com Uh, give us a like over there normally when animals are for sale they go on the facebook page for a week And then they're putting on places like king snake and fauna So if you are a fan of roge-reptiles on facebook You get first dibs on all animals that are for sale before they even go on to the website So that would be the place to go Um, next thing I got is there is a hamburger reptile show february 27 Um, I will be there vending I hang out my tables right behind matt matt minutoles billy harp so he's right there Um, and then jason bale will be there how it running will be there aircolor might be there I never know if he's gonna show up not but that's uh, it's starting to turn out to be a pretty kick-ass show when it comes to Morelia and matt so, um, that's definitely you know if you can make it in an area come check it out Usually the February show is pretty good Did you say Hand matt Yes, okay Yeah, I wanted to feel included. Okay Yeah There's a guy anyway, it's not like he has like 45 condros or anything Are they breeding? Well, he starts producing eggs Then i'm gonna be you know, yeah Anyway Sometimes I just make comments is sometimes I just make comments during the show to see Who's sending my messages on Wednesday when they listen to the show So and that's pretty And that night that's been pretty good about it if I mentioned him he usually ends up sending me a message. So it's okay Uh, anyway, uh, if you are on facebook you can also go and give a like over to Mirelia pick of the week where you can post any pictures of any mirelia or any really cool snakes you want over there Um, and then people will it went all over it The only rule is that you cannot have any for sale heads of any kind if you put those up I will believe That's all we got. That's all I got. So what we're going to tell you guys is thank you for listening We hope you learned something and we're going to catch everybody next week for some more mirelia python radio good night Hey, chad brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in nfl or as a reptile breeder in the owner of projak I've been hirping since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advance in the industry and educating the community about the important to reptile I also love to encourage the joy of breathing and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist Which is why my partner robin and markeland and I created the reptile report the reptile report is our online news aggregation site Bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world Visit the reptile report.com every day to stay on top of latest reptile news and information We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news photos and links So we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you the reptile report offers powerful brandy and marketing exposure for your business And the best part is it's free your buyer or breeder You got to check out the reptile report marketplace the market place is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling Information full of features to help put you in touch with a perfect deal find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system Search by sex wait more or other keywords and use our buy-it-now option to buy that animal right now Go to marketplace dot the reptile report calm and register your account for free Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptile account to earn free tokens Each shipping label you book use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum Add also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page Byron and selling you ship your reptiles.com take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rate Ship your reptiles dot com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal success Use ship your reptiles dot com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates the materials needed to ship the reptile Successfully live customer support in our live on time arrival insurance program. We got you covered Visit the reptile report dot com to learn or share about the animals click on the link to the marketplace find that perfect pet or breeder Then visit ship reptiles dot com to ship that animal anywhere in the united states We are your one stop shop for everything reptile related You You You You You [BLANK_AUDIO]