Morelia Python Radio

What is my carpet python?

Episode #228 In this episode we are back for the start of our new season and we have a lot to talk about. We will be cathing you guys up not only what's going on with us but what has been happeing in the past few weeks in the world of Morelia. What is my carpet python? This is a topic that seems to have come up a lot. As more and more people are discovering carpet pythons we see a rise in people purchasing a carpet python before they really have a full understanding of the carpet python complex. We are joined by Dave Pierson to discuss this topic. Dave wrote an article called "Carpet Pythons for Dummies" When it comes to carpet pythons education is key. "Carpet pythons" are not all the same, they have various subspecies, etc. We will be discussing what you need to know before taking the plunge into the coolest pythons on the planet! www.moreliapythonradio.com www.ebmorelia.com www.rogue-reptiles.com

Duration:: 2h 39m
Broadcast on:: 06 Jan 2016
Audio Format:: other

Hey Chad Brown here, you may remember me as a linebacker in NFL, where I was a reptile breeder and their owner of Projak. I've been hurtful since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breeding and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Markle and I created the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news. So as a link, we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists, just like you. The reptile report offers powerful branding and marketing exposure for your business and the best part is it's free. You're a buyer or breeder, you gotta check out the reptile report marketplace. The marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling definition full of features that help put you in touch with the perfect deal. Find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system, search by sex, weight, more, or other key words. Use our Buy Now option to buy that animal right now. Go to marketplace.the reptilereport.com and register your account for free. Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptiles account to earn free tokens with each shipping label you book. Use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum med. It also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page. Buy on a selling and ship your reptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rate. Ship your reptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use ship your reptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. The materials needed to ship your reptiles successfully, live customer support, and our live, on time, arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptilereport.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace. Find that perfect pet or breeder. Then visit shipreptile.com to ship that animal anywhere in the United States. We are your one-stop shop for everything reptile related. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] As much as we enjoy our break, it's really good to be back. I like being back. I like doing this. I don't know what to do with my Tuesday night to that you people. This break seemed really, really long to me. I don't know. It was like after Christmas, everything just kind of dragged and it was in. I guess the weather started turning cold all of a sudden too. That might be weighing in on it, but we're back now. We're good now. The worst week without us. Everybody must be going through a withdrawal, I'm supposing, but no worries because we're going to ease back into it tonight. We've got to talk about some of the things that have been going on since we went away. Then in a little bit, we're going to be joined by Dave Pearson to talk about a topic that comes up a lot. I think this pop up a couple of times over the holiday break, but the question of what is my carpet python that you see newbies posting up from time to time and what brought Dave to mind with this particular topic was he did an article called the carpet python for dummies. Basically, it just talks about we're going to break down some of the questions that come up. I think with the influx of more people coming into the carpet python world, you're going to see this more and more. What better to start the new year off with the topic of what is my carpet python because it can be quite confusing. I mean, let's be honest, when I first got into carpets and I went to MP, you got species, subspecies, you have localities, you have more and you have different lines and there's blood lines and all these different things. We're going to try to break that down for everybody. Why if you don't know the lineage or at least who bred the animal, why it can be difficult if probably impossible? That's exactly what you're dealing with. Not that that's a bad thing. If somebody wants a pet carpet python, there's nothing wrong with not knowing it. But you go to a plate moralia pick of the week and post up that dreaded question, what is my carpet python and there you go. And it's better to kind of know before you do a post that can kind of be construed as old and embarrassing with the people who are like, this is my pure jaguar python. This is my pure jaguar python with perhaps a little bit carpet python in it and you're like, wait a minute, your post made no sense. You just said it was a pure jaguar python with a little bit of carpet python in it. Please sit down. You can kind of avoid some of that stuff just kind of doing a little bit of research on your own. And also never take somebody at their word for it. If you buy a second hand from somebody saying it's from that breeder, nine times out of ten, that's not true. So yeah, yeah, it can be, it can be quite, it can be quite intuitive. A little bit of a mind field. Yeah, if you don't know what's what's going on. So hopefully we can break down. And you know, then, then the podcast is there. So people have the question. Now you can direct them to the podcast and they can listen to it and hopefully get straightened out on it. But yeah, so I guess, you know, we're going to wait for Dave to call in, which might not be until about an hour from now. But that's fine because we've got some stuff that we're going to hit on as well. Right. We've got time to kill and stuff to talk about. Yeah. Go ahead. I mean, if you are, if you're out there and you're listening live, go over to the Facebook thread that we have the discussions going on over there is always live every time we're on air on Tuesdays. If you are not on the Facebook chat and want to be, just go ahead and message myself or Eric will add you to it. A lot of times pictures that we talk about will be posted over there live. Anything else we will discuss will be posted up on Maralia Python radio Facebook page after the show has aired. So there you go. I have my disclaimer. Very good. We had the all of the calendars and mailed out and I think there is in that second batch that we got. So people should be getting them any day now. I would imagine. And if I take away the five for us, I think I have three left. Three. Okay. Somebody once one of them, they turned out pretty cool. Owen isn't even hasn't even seen. I don't even have. Have yours. I'm not five minutes away anymore. I have to like make special time or something to go get it. So yeah. Yeah. We'll have to take a trip at some point. But yeah. So here we are. We're located on the east coast of the U.S. and this weather man. What the hell. So here's my question. The question came through on Maralia pick of the week when we were on vacation and came from Andy Simmons. And if you don't remember who Andy is, he's the guy that brought the lobsters, the carpet fest. I remember. Yeah. And he's all the way. He's all the way up in like Maine or yeah. Yeah. So he's all the way up there. I mean, so he could be like, I'm using seaboard, but he is like Northeast. So I don't know what the weather's been going on for him up there. But gosh, I think it's basically the same problems that we're having here. Maybe not. It's a little colder up there. It's extreme. Yeah. All right. But he was basically wondering if he should keep his temps down because of the warm weather. And this is a question that, you know, I was going to talk about one, first, how's your season going? And two, you know, what have you done about this crazy weather? I mean, it seems like it's, I don't know. It's going to hurt. Well, I want to say they, there's always the potential it could mess up everything. But New Year's day, I got a clutch of corn snakes. So something's going right. I don't know what I'm doing, but eggs appear. So now my corn snakes are probably so freaking confused because of the weather and the temps that I mean, they must have been breeding, you know, in like October, November, and I missed it. So, or they started breeding the sick and they got together because those eggs just appeared. So I have them. And I've been seeing locks out of the carpet python. It is just from two of my males, though. It's from my caramel jag and it's from my red tiger jag. They've been lockings with their same females. And both females that they've been locking with are proven females. I can't get, I can't get my proven male red jag to breed. I can't get several of my other carpet pythons to breed at all. They're not, there are a few that are completely don't want anything to do with each other, but then there are some that are just kind of kiddoling. So I'm not sure if I'm missing locks or what's going on. And I haven't had any or seen any success or any locks out of any of the lysus or the boas. So I'm not exactly sure what's going on with there. And the bread lye aren't even together. They're still in cool down. So I don't know. It is insanely early in the season. I mean, I was talking to Jason Bailin over break at one of the The Havader Grey shows. And he was saying that it's, it's still insanely early. I mean, I've gotten eggs from my carpet pythons in like August and September. So that means they weren't breeding until like June, July. So it is insanely early. So don't want anybody to go out there and freak out because some people are getting locks. You know, every animal's different. Every pair's different. But yeah, so far. Okay. Well, what makes me nervous for me in particular is so that everybody understands what's going on in the East Coast is that what was it a week ago or two weeks ago, we had 70 degrees. Yes. And today it's negative. We have to. Yeah. And this weekend, it will be 40. So kind of all over the map. So now where you can kind of cheat that is you have the control over your room temps per se when it comes with, you know, your your computers and your heat panels or heat tapes or rack systems or whatever. But you're exactly correct. We're not getting. I mean, this time last year, I think we had two feet of snow on the ground and it was freezing cold. So well. Yeah, that was the one thing that I was going to say is that I noticed if, well, you know, because of the business I end in my, you know, day job, you have to look at the year before. And last year, you know, when I was doing the budget for the quarter that we're in, you know, last year, there was a tremendous amount of snow on the East Coast, you know, and we haven't really had a whole lot of precipitation. So I don't know if, you know, the fronts that are moving in or are, you know, because they're not coming in, maybe we're not seeing it. So here's how my thing has gone so far. You know, I held off later, typically I start at November, but because it really didn't cool down outside, I didn't think that I would be able to take my room down as cold. You know, I was turning off all heat at night, and maybe it went down to 78 degrees, you know, which is in my experience is not cold enough for carpet pythons. You may be able to squeak by with IJs with that, but you know, the other subspecies, you know, I don't think you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna be successful, at least I haven't. So once I, towards the end of November, the temperature started, started to really come down. So I figured, okay, it was a safe time to, to start dropping my temperatures, which then you saw my room come down to maybe, I don't know, you know, at the beginning of it, it was 75. And now, even at night, I'm getting my room down to 70 degrees, which is the target temperature that I shoot for. But I put the animals together. And, no, at the beginning, they were locking like crazy. And now I don't see an action. So what I'm afraid of is typically when I start to warm back up, you know, it's going to be, it's going to be cold. Yeah, you know what I mean? So like the acute down at that cold for longer, and then just bring them up when the weather starts to come up, or yeah, I don't know. It's definitely going to be a, yeah, it's going to be a season to try your, your knowledge, I guess, and watching your state figure it out. Yeah, and it's one of those things where I wouldn't be surprised if we have a bunch of late clutches this year out of the eastern seaport. I mean, that's just sometimes how it happens where, you know, I'll try to warm them up, but if they're not going to breed, and not going to breed, and then they start breeding later on, that might be it. So, you know, it just, it kind of is, we just might end up seeing a bunch of late clutches. My concern would be if a female was breeding because she was ovulating, and now she's going to drop down to be colder, are we going to lose a bunch of clutches as well? Right, that's what I was, yeah. So here's my, it's a crapshoot, you know, it's, you're damped if you do and you're damped if you don't, you can find a way that something can go wrong no matter what you do. So, yeah, and I think, I don't know, it, well, I have a couple thoughts, like one, I think that the iJs are going to be difficult to breed. I mean, I've seen a locks from my tiger and poison ivy pairing, but the, you know, the PC and the M10, I got nothing. I wish I could comment on this, but I can just tell you, I've not seen any action out of my granite iJ, and it is just like the last four years where I have not seen any action out of my granite iJ. So, but here's, here's my thoughts. Exactly normal? No, no, no. I'm thinking that maybe the reason why you had difficulty with the iJs is because typically with iJ. So, if I started cooling down, say in October, you know, October, you know, you, we would be on the trend, you know, upwards at this point. Upwards, right. So, maybe the reason that you were missing is because typically you cool down later than what I cool down. Yeah. So, maybe that has something to do with it. Maybe you can breathe. No. Well, I'm cheating and I'm throwing my iJ in with a coastal. So, I'm like, do it! Half of you were successful all the time for me. So, it's like, it's like, I'm cheating. It's like, this isn't even, I don't care. It makes the granite. You make the jags head granite. Don't care. I don't care. I'm getting the thing to breathe if it kills me. So, okay. But, as far as the Lyasis, I keep hearing that they are spring breeders. So, I'm not even freaking out about that. But, of course, I keep my IP on Facebook and a few other places and some people are getting not locks, but like interest and action maybe out of their maclots and their Lyasis. But then, was it Brett from Red Hood Exotics or Red Hood reptiles? He had, he had fuscus eggs in December. So, when the hell do these things breathe? So, it's like, I don't know. So, all I did is I put everybody together. I'm like, I feel like breathing? Breathe, if you don't, I'll deal with you in summer. So, it's like, there we go. Everybody just make babies and I'll be happy. So, it's, it's a real big crafter. But, if I'm getting locks, then I'm doing something right. It's all going to just either be, you're either, we're not going to know how bad it is until eggs. We really aren't. And I mean, like, we might have low clutch count. We might have a big amount of slugs this year. We might have a big amount of reabsorbses this year. We're not going to know until we get through it. And if it does turn out to be a shitty year, I'm going to be pissed. But, if things happen, it's one of the things you have to deal with when you breathe snakes is you're not going to have a perfect season every year. I'm pissed because this is supposed to be my dude year because I move last year. So, you know, it's one of those things. So, hopefully, everything turns out okay. Yeah, wow, look at you, mister. You know, I did a lot of growing up these past two weeks that we were off. Wow. Usually, usually, you're the guy that's freaking out right now. Am I going to get in? I am almost, I am almost 30. So, you know, oh, there you go. Good point. Oh, trust me, I'm freaking out, but I'm doing that behind the scenes now. I just, always, we're off air to sit in my snake room and weep. So, it's, when I come to drop off the calendar, you're going to be freaking out. There's no eggs. Yeah, it's, I have, I have corn snake eggs. I'm already successful. My season is peaked already. I have corn snake eggs. I didn't try. Nice. Yeah, we, I guess the thing of it is that you just really have to pay attention to your, to your animals and, and try to figure out, you know, so, I know, push on and see what happens. It's, it's one of those things where you kind of got to keep an eye on our animals even more. So, because it is breeding season and the animals are going to tell you what's going on. I, I tried to introduce a young male into a female's cage and it did not go well. He like perched on a cable up at the top of the, like one of those, like it, it's, it's cords that goes from the panel to outside the cage. He perched on it like chondro and would not come down. So, it's like, you got to pay attention to those things, because if I wasn't paying attention, you would probably get stressed out and sick and whatever. So, yeah, no go on that boy this year. So, we're just going to have to take a look at your females, you know, keep it, keep track of your animals. Don't, this is not a year for push button breeding, which sucks, but hey, this is what you all signed up for. So, yeah, I, I think that there's a, you know, I think that we have this idea that there's like this one thing that gets carp, or just, I guess reptiles to breed in general. And, you know, when it comes to pythons, I think that there's maybe, you know, five things and maybe you have to have three of those things in order to be successful. It doesn't necessarily have, it could be any of those three things out of the five, but at least three of those things have to happen in order for them to feel like, you know, it's okay to breed or, or the season. Because, I mean, they're not incredibly smart animals, so they're kind of going on the instant. So, you just have to figure out how to manipulate it, you know. So, one cool thing that actually came in the mail today, as a surprise to me, was this book that, apparently, I guess it came out a couple years, well, maybe years ago, but it was written in German. And it's called carp pythons, Marelia Breadlai, Marelia Caronata, and the Marelia Spilota complex. And it was written by Mark Mintz. Well, you said Carpet python, and you named Marelia Breadlai, Marelia Caronata, and then Marelia Spilota. So, is it Carpet python and those, or are they all grouping those under Carpet python? No, no, no, it's kind of like the complete Carpet python. Oh, thank God. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Throw that book out now, right? Get burning. We're not doing it again. From the surface of it, it looks pretty cool. One of the things that I do like in here, but when you go and you look at some of the, like, as I was flipping through, they talk about some of the morphs and such, and the grand carp python, they sort of talk about maybe the little bit of history behind it, which I always find, you know, pretty cool. Yeah, I kind of geek out about that kind of stuff. But there's definitely some cool stuff. A lot of wild caught, I mean, wild type carpets, which I always dig. There's this one picture where these, these inlins are breeding. Well, actually, they're, it's a male combat and the snake, let me, I can take a picture of it. And the snake is actually biting the other snake. Wow, I've never seen something. Let me see if I can take a picture of it. I've never seen a thing like that to where that happens. I have. Have you? Yeah, in white lips, where they just, they just go at each other crazy. Yeah. I posted up in the, in the chat there. Yeah, and we'll post it up on the Facebook page. So chat send. There we go. Great. But yeah, I mean, overall, it looks like a pretty cool book. It's, it's, you know, anything carpets python related for me is good to go, but there's. Signing me up. You know, and then they throw the rough scale in there. It's funny how the rough scale always gets sort of put in there with, you know, with the carpet python, but there's, there's not enough on them to write their own book. So they just heave them in with Morelia. You know, I, I would say that the best thing would be, in my opinion, that if you're going to write a green tree python book, I would say that we should go over there. But then of course, mine never act like green tree python. So I don't even know where to help up with mine. So yeah, whatever. They're close enough to chuck them over there until somebody with nomenclature gets ahold of them and don't know spins about the semolina or something. So I think my opinion is what they'll do is at some point they'll separate chondros out of Morelia and they will separate the rough scales with the chondros with the chondros. I will, I will agree. I will agree to that. So I think that, well, they've already sort of done it with scrubs and ballons. I'm not really sure how Owen Pelley's fits into that because it kind of looks like a scrub at the children's python crossed. You know, yeah, that was pretty cool that we saw that picture of the, I don't know if you caught it, I posted it over on our page, but the Gavin Bedford put up the picture of the Owen Pelley's. Yeah, yeah, that was pretty neat. Those animals look so cool because they have such a weird looking kind of a snout thing and those big Morelia kind of or semolina, whatever, head muscles that come with Aussie pythons. So it's got that thin snout, huge frickin head muscles. I'm like, it looks like an arrow pretty much and that's just awesome. So those will be cool. And I know we were discussing earlier before the show how they'll probably be one of those animals that'll be here. Everyone will lose their mind over them. And then in like 10 years after they get here, no one will care. So it's one of those things. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's like, it's one of the things that I was thinking about over the break was, you know, space and whatnot. And, you know, as my animals are growing into adulthood, space becomes more of a necessity. And, you know, what do you cut and what do you don't cut, you know, and it's kind of like, well, I know I'm not cutting carpets out. So if you cut carpets out, you call me, I will be down there with a bin. And yeah, I'll tell you what I'm taking. So, um, yeah, we find everybody would just kind of pull together for the ride home. But it's one of the things of like, obviously, you don't cut your course fees because you and I were talking about earlier because I'm getting rid of my Amazon tree bows, because that was a fun experiment that I hated and don't want to do it anymore. And we're down to one pair of the Dominican Red Mountain bows. And if they don't breed this year, they might be going. It's because eventually you start looking around, you realize how many cage spaces you have opened, what you want to get into. Also, what do you have growing up? Because you're going to start running out of rack space. And once you're running out of rack space, you're going to bump every up to cages and you're out and you're screwed. Yeah, then you're done. And then you're talking about get rid of adult animals where some of the adult animals you can get rid of. Like, uh, I know you and I talked a few years ago about your redundancy where you had a zebra jag and a caramel zebra jag and then like a super caramel zebra jag. And then it was like, okay, give her to the zebra jag because you got what he brings to the table, everybody else does. So it kind of goes with that thing. You can make those decisions, but then you don't want to screw it up because it's like, um, Jason and I, we're going to, uh, we're going to do a breeding loan this year with one of his tiger males. And the tiger male hasn't come here yet because Jason is using a new boy. And you don't want to ditch the old, you know, switch hitting like, you know, get in there and we'll breed with a piece of rope male until the male that will replace him is good to go and has a season or two under his belt. Because that's one of the big mistakes I see a lot of people do where it's like, okay, my super caramel jag is ready to roll. Get rid of the caramel jag and then the super caramel jag doesn't want to breed that year. And you've lost your male that would have bred everybody. So it's one of those things you kind of got to watch, but you're right. It you can only make the room so big and either you move and get a whole new room and fill that up, which happens way quicker than you expect, believe me. And or you start sending out the collection. So yeah, yeah, it's, it's, you know, I don't know and it leaves us into, uh, into the, the couple of things that we're going to hit on, but the more and more and more things I see popping up. I mean, it seems like, especially in Australia that, you know, there's all these different morphs or, you know, possible morphs that, uh, that those guys are working with that, uh, you know, you know, me and I guess it comes down to this. If I could keep a carpet plan on, well, you know, I was talking about the Macklops and I know how you're such a, a fan of Macklops. I was, I said, I was talking to Rob Stone earlier and I was like, you know, I'm probably just going to give my Macklops to Owen because, you know, that's two spaces that I need. And at least I know where they're going to be if, you know, if I ever decide, like, oh, yeah, maybe I will get back in the Macklops. Yeah, you know what I mean? Successful. I'll just give you a pair back. It's how it works. Right. Yeah. And the, and the female is such a nice looking animal. I would hate to, you know what I mean? I want somebody that's really going to appreciate the, uh, yeah, the actual thing, but a couple of things I saw, like there was this possible bread ole morph I'm saying. Yeah. This is by Jez Stevens. He bred this male. He got a clutch of 25 eggs. And it's not, it's not proven or anything, but I'll tell you what, man, this thing is like a patternless centrelium python. I mean, it's, it is pretty much patternless with a few flakes of black through the, and it's red from the top half. And then like, yeah, all breadlight fades to black, but there's no pattern. So it just goes from red with barely any pattern with a few flakes to black. And it's killer looking. I don't know why I like it so much, but I do. Yeah. It kind of has, uh, kind of has a cool look to it. You know, imagine putting info into that or something like that. Oh my God. Yes. You know, I don't know. I thought that was cool. Hopefully that'll prove out. Apparently there's this, uh, you know, there's a female out there as well. So, um, I've heard about these black, red lies, what they were calling it. A few times have popped up, but now there's, you know, seeing if what it is. Um, you guys need a better name, though, calling it a black bread lie. It doesn't do much for me. Think of something else. So, um, we'll wait when you guys come up with a better name. Oh, yeah. Well, that's, that's another topic, but, um, then there was the, uh, you know, remember the crazy looking pie diamond python that, yeah, Michael up in Canada, he, uh, he had this pop out of the reduced pattern. Uh, yeah. Cool. Actually, did he had, did he be reduced to reduced? And that's where the this thing came out of. Um, yeah. Um, I think no, I don't think he's done reducing reduced yet. Okay. Because I was talking, yeah, I was talking to him over the break and, um, basically he was talking, uh, I think he has 13 reduced pattern diamonds. What the hell? He, he, he produced them and, uh, you know, he was growing them up. But, uh, this crazy looking pie thing, I'm sure people saw it over on pick of the week. He, he kind of, uh, he kind of, yeah, posted it up. Let me see if I have a picture of that as well. I think, I, I dig that it actually has some like white, like triangles, like spots of white mixed in with these kind of like crazy patternless pattern and then the reduced pattern. It looks, it looks like a, like, you know, it looks like a freaking Picasso painting, but it's like it, it's, it's everywhere all at once. And I can't wait for this thing to have the colors develop. Um, that's just an awesome looking animal. I hope to God it's genetic and you're looking at something that could be kind of line bread or something kind of cool because diamonds themselves. I mean, my female just shed and I, I, I fall in love with every freaking time I see her. So it's like having an animal that looks like that with the colors that I know diamonds can have would be insane to me. So again, if this thing has for me though, I would probably just quick sell it to be afraid I'd kill it and it'd be like the last kind and nobody would ever get this more thanks to Owen. So yeah, I, I'd be calling Nick and be like something weird hatch. Please take it from me. So much pressure. Yeah. Yeah. And then yesterday, um, Wayne, Wayne Larks from Morellia Magic. Um, he hatched out this crazy looking, is it leucistic? Is it pot? I don't know, man. It, it looks like it is a leucistic with patches of jag, but the jag pigments never came in. So it looks like it's like a, it just looks like a white and black spotted snake. But those are, those look like jag saddles to me. The head pattern looks like it's trying to be a jag in the part that's patterned. Um, unfortunately, the little bugger when it did come out of the egg, I think it only survived for about 24 hours. You can tell the head doesn't look right. And the rest of them kind of looks a little kooky. Um, not to mention the coloration. I believe Nick already weighed in on this little guy. I think he said mosaic or something like that. Um, yeah, I kind of glanced it over a little bit. I was kind of, we had a busy day, but um, yeah, it's really cool. I really dig these animals. I wish to God they would survive. But it's almost like now it was a jag, the jag pairing, correct? No, no, it was a jag to a, to a normal jag to a normal. Okay. So interesting. I don't know what the hell that means. So, um, so if you remember Nick talking about like, sometimes, um, there's like everybody, I'm going to butcher this. I know it. But basically when you're looking at, um, so if you take the jag gene and the jag gene, there's two, there's, you have to have, uh, what would it be? Two, uh, drawn a blank, two of the genes and not that you have to get the a gene, uh, the gene from the father and the father to a leader. That's it. Okay. Got you. Right? Yeah. I don't know. So you have to get, if you have one of them, if you have one of them, you're going to have a jag. If you have two of them, you're going to have a lady. Dead baby. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So are these combined twins or kind of like the, the chimeras that we've heard about where one baby got a double dose of the jag gene and the other one did not. Could be. Something like that. Okay. Yeah. All right. Um, but sometimes the, the, they were saying, um, you know, Nick was saying about sometimes that the, it leaves the, the, uh, the allele off, you know, like they don't get nothing from the mother or they get nothing from the father, whatever. So they only get one copy of the gene. Yeah. That's what it would be. It would be a copy of the gene. Okay. Not a Leo. I butcher that. I don't know. You know, they get two copies of the gene terms. Right. And, uh, you know, I don't know, man, but you know what's, what's weird is that, I don't know, maybe it's me. Maybe it's just more people are breeding them, but it seems like this is popping up an awful lot. This isn't the, the first time we've seen this. And I mean, we had the one up in Canada that didn't survive. And Wayne himself hacked that one. I don't think it was, it was the last year. The one that was kind of like pied looking. That was a couple years ago. Yeah. He's got that one. That one's still going strong. I mean, he just posted up a picture of him or it. So I'm not sure what's going on with that, but it looks like it does keep happening. So I do understand the theory of if we keep breeding these things, are we going to start maybe get one that survives when it comes to this stuff? And you could get one that potentially does survive, but is it going to be readable? Is my next question? Um, and can you pass those genes on to further offspring? I don't know. Yeah, that's, that's the kicker. That's what, that's what a lot of people don't seem to take the next step on is that everybody says, like, okay, eventually we'll produce one that's alive. Congratulations. Now what? So we got it. So we got one that's alive. And I'm saying that now, now I've said it a million times that if you breach the jag, you will not get a little narcissistic. Congrats. Never going to happen. Right. That's a dead end there. But it does not say that somewhere along the breeding of a jag to normal, you won't get a mutant like this little guy that could potentially stay alive. But now can he pass on all his information that makes him look that freaky to future offspring? Or can he even breed in the first place? I mean, Nick said that a few times where he's had some animals that, you know, as you say, he had that one granite ij that on the outside will look like a granite, but an actuality was like only a pet granite or something like that. Like it didn't get the gene from the mom. So it looked like a granite, but an actuality, the only thing it could possibly be is a hat. I didn't tell us that story once, or something along those lines. Yeah. So for all you know, it could be something like that. This thing could look freaking awesome, but act just like a jack. And all its babies look jags. So who knows? Who knows? I would love to see these things live and I would love to see where we can go on with this. So more power to Wayne, keep breeding, keep doing what you're doing, and hopefully you get something freaky your next year. Because it's like several years in a row, Wayne just keeps popping up freaky thing after freaky thing. I mean, I don't know what's going on in the water at his place, but apparently he needs to bottle it and ship it to the rest of us. You know, his collection is pretty awesome. So we're going to have Dave will be calling in in a little bit. But one of the things that I wanted to start doing on a weekly thing is basically I wanted to do a little segment of something that me and oh, and each of us pick a subject each week that you can't get out of your mind. Something that you saw that you know, you're like, oh man, this has just been I've been thinking about it all week. And for me, for me, there's this coastal carpet that the cave brothers have. And I've been eyeing this thing up for years. I remember the couple years ago they did YouTube video about it. We talked to him when he was on the show about it. But basically it's a it's a possible and your thristic carpet python, which basically means that it has no red. I don't know if you've ever seen this thing, but I'll post a picture up. Let's see, where is it at? Here it is. They posted a picture up the other day. And one of the things that I was thinking about is, if this does turn out to be, oh, what are you there? Yeah, right here. Oh, okay. It got awful. I'm listening to you. I'm sorry. Can I interrupt every five minutes? No, no, no. Very good. So if in theory, let's just say for sake of argument that they go ahead and they prove this this guy out and it becomes any thristic, which again, that means no red. What will happen to the names like ghost, snow, moon glow, you know, because I think of if you look at ball pythons or an example that I can use is that back in the day, they had an orange ghost, which was basically a hypo animal, but they had this thing called an orange ghost. And then they had these other things called true ghost. And a true ghost was basically, you know, an axanic and a hypo, which can be confusing if you really don't know what's going on. So, the thing that I wondered is why we don't use like, an albino is an albino, regardless of what species it is, you know, it may be a different pain or a different type, but albino is albino. So what is going to happen when we start mixing that into things? Because basically right now, you're looking at combos that involve the caramel gene. And if you look at a hypo, that means that it's reducing the black. Caramoles, unless you're looking at supers, you can still have animals that have a lot of black. You can. Yeah. So what would, you know, okay, so I'm going to use boa as an example. So a ghost in a boa is an anery and a hypo, you know. So what happens to the ghost that have caramel in it? So it's basically on axanic. But yeah, we'll have at some point the hypo gene. And let's just say for sake of argument that it's already here. And we all know about it, but go on. Well, no, no, no, that that disproves out. And then we have an anery carpet. So you have a hypo, and then you have the anery, which is takes out the red. So now you have a true ghost. But then you have those other ghosts over here. Same with the snow, you know, you have an anery and an albino is what makes us snow and boa is. But I believe that makes us snow and corn snakes as well, right? That don't freaking know. I just breathe them out. Don't know. Don't you give me that. I don't know what the hell is going on with those animals. Anyway, okay. So an anery and an albino makes us snow, but right now I write that down. Yeah, is it an axanic and an albino. So is the snow going to be whiter? Would it be whiter? It probably, it might, it's going to look different. I mean, I refuse to believe that they're going to come out looking at you and say, it's not going to happen that way. And we've had this discussion before, you and I, when it comes to the caramel and the hypo, because eventually we all assume that the hypos will take the caramel's place and you'll still have the same animals. And that's why with certain people, when I talk about pairings that I'm doing, I'm talking about examples. I refuse to call them ghosts, because I imagine in a few years, I'll have the opportunity to get hypos, and then I can make true ghosts. And I don't want to have to sit here and say, ghosts and true ghosts did stupid. So it, those things of like, now you might have the opportunity to have ghosts, true ghosts, and just kidding, these are the true ghosts. So it's almost like you got to pump the brakes here a little bit and start trying to figure out what to call certain animals that get you close to it, but it's not the exact definition of what would make a ghost in other animals. Now, what makes ghosts in different species and snow and, you know, all that of the crap, it's, what you just said is like, this is what makes it a boa, this is what makes it in corn snake. Now, do we just, because these animals were produced first, do we call what's out now, snow, and then think of a different name for whatever's coming out that is actually going to be a true snow? Maybe, I mean, maybe you make it a snow type two or something like that, or, you know, the type two prep is too annoying. Call that snow, want to call that one a blizzard, and we're done. So, well, it's funny, I was talking to Rob earlier, and he was telling me about that, like, I never knew that a blizzard is, they use this type two aneurys. Yeah, yeah, that's what makes a blizzard, and that he believes that that could be aneurys, an exantic. So, yeah, then we started talking and it started to believe that, you know, is, well, it's not separate out in that, that blizzard, it's sort of, it takes the yellow out, it takes the red out. So, taking this a little farther and thinking about selective breeding as far as morphs go, is it possible to make a wider snow carpet, where you're pretty much taken out the pattern, similar to what you see in a blizzard, if you combine aneurys, albino, and exantic, because you're basically taking out the black, the yellow, and the red, right? Yes, yep, yep, yep. So, when you could now become so frickin' important, it's ridiculous. So, get it. Yeah. One of those things of like, it's gonna be like, and I hate to do it, but it's almost like you sit there and you go with ball python, and I've discussed this with Andrew, and a few other people at length, you know a lot about the ball python genetics, and it's like, do you know that there are like eight different ways to get to an all white ball python with this colorized? I'm like, really? Yeah, you're pretty dissed with this, you've that, that, that, and you still end up here. So, and I'm like, but, and that's what it is. Regardless of where it came from, this is what it is. So, are you gonna paint a big brush and say that everything that looks like this is called this? That kind of doesn't work with carpet python, in my opinion. You know, it, it, it would be kind of difficult. So, I, I, to say that I don't know, it's almost like, it'd be a little hard to try to figure out, and it's, I almost think like new names would have to come into play, so that we could tell what, what, you got to know what is in the animal, and the best way to do that is to know what, by, by the name. So, that's the, you know, ghost, but what's in a ghost right now is an examic, and a caramel. So, when we start breeding hypos to examic, do we call it something different? Now, it's almost like you have to, so you know that there's, that this is what's in this, and this is what's in that. So, yeah, I'm not sure if I said that right, but somebody was just, oh, okay. All right, I wasn't sure if I was, I said that right, because they were in the chat, they were, exactly, saying about, yeah, that, an injury. So, right, we've had the first scolding on the, uh, Borrelia chat of the year. Thank you, Zach. Yeah, no, I'm saying that if, an annuary, so if you look at an angery in a corn snake, and you look at an angery in a boa, both of those, um, do still show the pattern, and I think that's similar to what you see with what we have in snow, you still see the patterns, you know, in the, in the, in the animal. Now, um, uh, Wayne, he, he, he produced, again, moon glow, but basically, he's using albino, hypo, and I think he had caramel in there. Um, right. So, with his moon glow, especially, again, it's, it's still young. So, who knows what it's going to look like into adult, but, um, it's very, it's much whiter, at least what I can see in the videos and pictures, than say the typical snow. So, I guess I'm just thinking out, you know, it's like, I remember back when I got into carpet pythons, the holy grail of what everybody was after was this all white carpet python, and I think that, in theory, if this proved out, this, uh, anery, aneryothristic, uh, aneryothristic, um, carpet proves out, then there is a possibility by combining the aneryothristic, the axanic, and the hypo, or albino, you could get, um, that, uh, sure white snake in Australia. Yeah. In Australia. In Australia. We can, we can look at it. We can, we can watch it. Yeah, we can't, we can't touch it. Unless somebody takes it over to the pit and we eat it appears in Germany. So, it's a bit, it's a pit of Germany. Uh, yeah. Can't we just, can't, can't just, like, can, can we just get some silver peppered inlands checking the pit already? Like, can that happen? Yeah. Speaking of, uh, speaking of, well, I'll make that at the end of the thing. That's the one. Okay. We'll talk about that later. So what's on your mind, Alan? What can't you get off your mind this week? I can, what I can't get off my mind this week is the attitude of scrub python, because I've been, I don't know what it is about this week, but I've been bombarded with emails about scrub pythons, and of course, I've been dealing with my own attempts to greet the tandem bars. And we're trying to get our other animals, the barn ex and certain other animals up the size. So, it's just been a week of attitude when it comes to scrub pythons. And of course, it's like, every once in a while, when you get into a species, you kind of leave it alone and you go off and you do other things and then you kind of revisit it. It's like, um, it's like every once in a while, you'll send me a picture of your blackhead and you'll be like, he is so cool. It's like everyone's like, you kind of got to get back and kind of refall in love with the species. So, but that doesn't happen with scrubs. I just kind of look at them and they're kind of evil. There's no love there. Oh, you thought this was going to be a nice thought. No, no, no. So it's, it was just, it's just, I have the pair that I'm attempting to breathe now. It's the point where I've had to cover parts of the cage because the male will not stop hidden glass. Now, this is just 10 of ours. And constantly, what I'm thinking about is, dear lord, what if I had, you know, the big ones? Like, well, we're talking King Horny here. Imagine if you had a King Horny that just wanted you dead. I mean, how do you stop him from killing you? It's like, and, and that of course, just leads to why do these things here? And God scrubs are horrible creatures. And it's like, you know, but then you dip back into the bluekins and you realize that they're really not that bad. So yeah, that's just been cooking on in my head since the break is like, you know, could I get in the bluekins again? And God scrubs are horrible creatures. So, we're kind of on the fence right now. So yeah, scrubs, we have a love hate relationship. We do it's a love hate relationship with scrubs. Being that I'm the size of a hobbit and probably would make a good deal for a King Horny. Yeah. I don't know if I would ever work. I mean, I would love to work with them. But then, okay, here's the thing. Maybe people will think of a wimp when it comes to this. But one of the things that I love love about carpets is like, when I'm working with an adult carpet, you know, I am not worried about if that thing bites me or not. You know what I mean? I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I don't have to have like, you know, a bottle of listerine or rubbing alcohol or your shower by me or, you know, you know, you know, and like, clean in a cage is relatively simple. And you know, and you still got like, you know, I mean, the snakes at decent size, take it out. People are going to be like, Oh my God, wow, that snake is big, you know? Yeah. Oh, man, I don't know. I don't know, man. But then there's, but then that led me to my next thought work. Like, okay, so scrubs are too big to piss off to honry. Does that mean bones are off the table? Well, apparently bones are a lot chiller. They are. But, and I'll admit, sometimes my chill snakes want me dead. I mean, sometimes it's just like I catch them on the bad day or it's having a bit of your pulling a mom from eggs. So now, if you don't want to, if you want to avoid the attitude in the bite of a scrub, wood abolins be kind of like getting your cake and eating it too, where you have the big gruff, large animal, but it doesn't really want to hurt you or is it like one day he might just decide he's got to peg you? Well, I think, I guess I think that snakes personality is just that it's from individual to individual. You can have some snakes that are pretty chill. And then I think the thing with scrubs though is like, you know, like, I guess it's probably similar to like what a venomous keeper would, your guard is never down, you know? No, that is true. That is. Yeah. You always expect death. Okay. I got you. Yeah. So they're like, we walk in to clean your scrubs. You're just like, okay, well, yeah, man, I'm just gonna. You've got, you've got my number today. Yeah. Okay. I'll get bit. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and one of the things I hate about scrubs, you know, the thing I absolutely hate about them, dude, is that with that prehensile tail, like, even more so than carpets, you've got two hooks. I got a hook over here. And the hook is always on the other side of the room. You know, always over on the other side of the room where I touched the bin where the scrub is. And I guess my book is like launched to the other side of the room, because it was right next to me. But now it's way over there pinned underneath something or, you know, outside the room somehow. So yeah, you're right. Exactly far away. Yeah. And it's like the, the bitch of it is, is that scrubs are beautiful. I mean, they are, you know, and the inhalation, their heads, the labial pits, you know, like, they're just, they're so impressive as an animal. Yeah. I think that people just can't get past that stage. So they haven't. Yeah. So that, I mean, I think Nick said it once before, it's like a heat seeking missile, man. And you know, your head, yeah, ground zero. It's like, it's like, they know where to fly. It's like, and it never stops to. It's not like, you know, certain animals I have will swing at me, they'll bite, I'll put them away. And then the next time I go in there, they're perfectly fine. It never stops. That door opens, game on. And that's just the way that, dude, it, I hate my fuscus because they're so, because my female is so psychotic. But that's one animal. Can you imagine having a collection of scrubs? Imagine being like Dave Means, or it was like the entire room is a gauntlet of doom. It's like 10 footers waiting for you at every turn. And I would not, how do you enjoy your collection? And it's what. Dude, I don't, you know, it's, it's like, um, so when I first got into Morelia, you know, the thing of it was that there was, there was like the groups within the groups. Okay. So there was the Morelia group. And then there was the Scrub group. And then there was the Condro group. And then there was the carpet group, you know, and when I was in the carpet group, it's like, yeah, I want to hang out with the Condro guys. Oh man, I want to be cool like them and be in the scrub scrub thing. And, um, you know, those guys, you know, especially with those two species, you know, they never wanted to venture into anything else. So it'd be like, you know, they specifically were Condro, well, for the most part, but, and these were specifically scrub people. And then, you know, you had the carpet people and carpet people kind of delved into both worlds. And you know, I was, I had this vision of, yeah, I'm going to work with, you know, all these different Morelia and blah, blah, blah. And I got into Scrubs and I was like, you know what, I'm okay being the carpet guy. I'm okay being that guy. I'm okay. You know, I'll be the scrub guy. I'll be the carpet guy. And you can be, you know, it's, it's fine with me. I'm okay with that. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's the constant dealing with of not having a steady supply of catheter born and bred baby. So you're on the gamble there, if you're going to try to find some animals to bring in, you, you were dealing with a lot when you had your helmet arrows. So yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's no, no, no. It's almost like being a venomous keeper. It's like, I look at them. They're pretty. And I try not to die when I clean their poop. It's like, it's no, no. So it was like, I had to revisit the Scrubs while we were on break to realize just how much I don't miss them and how, how good I am with them not being here and how that tan and bar pair it produces this year or it's leaving. So, you know, it's just one of those things. So yeah. Yeah. I'm with you there, man. That's, that's a good thought because yeah, I don't know. It's kind of on the tail end of one of those things where the past year or the past two years I've been really expanding my collection. And I do, I did eventually know that we were going to have the drop where I kind of trimmed out everything that I wasn't really kind of, that, that didn't really fit in the collection. I didn't really like too much. There's just kind of is there and, you know, like you said earlier, cage space. So now I have had some, I did have a pretty bad season last year when I came to producing. And unfortunately I lost like one key male out of my collection. He passed and I was stupid and didn't keep any of his kids back from previous years, but I had one of his kids from last year still kicking around here. So now I got to raise it up and get them up the size. So you're kind of like the whole like, have I been paying attention to other things way too much that I haven't been focusing on my core guys the way I should be. So you're kind of kicking out a bunch of side projects until, you know, my carbon pythons are back where they were. You know, I have the animals that I wanted and roll cooking with gas and everybody's holding up the breed and is breeding and it's kind of like once I get those back where they were before I made the move, I can start expanding again. So obviously there's some project like the IASIS. They're not going anywhere. The rough scales, you can pry them from my cold dead hands and, you know, a few other things, but certain other things are going to go. So yeah, it's one of those things and the scrubs are on the list. So they're on the chopping block. So there you go. Anybody's looking for some scrub pythons, you know, there you go. They had to the end of the year. They had still breeding and then at probably the summertime, if I don't have little baby scrubs and I'm not pulling my hair out dealing with them, then we'll get rid of them. So I was thinking about that too. It's like, you know, I'm dealing, again, it's silly that I'm dealing with animals that are not like I guess I'm with you is that I'm all for, you know, I think focus is good, but I think that you need some kind of like, you know, some kind of something else just so you don't get bored. You know, taking a break from things is good because then it refocuses you. But I think that one of the problems that I have with this show in particular is doing this show is that you talk to all these different people that have all these different things and you get so excited about what they're doing that you want to do it, you know, and you're like, you want to be included. Oh my god. Yeah. Oh my god. This sounds awesome. I didn't realize it, but I need nothing but spotted pythons now. I need to go find as many spotted pythons as I can. And then after a week when you have six of them and you're like, I hate these things. It's like you kind of got to pump bricks here a little bit. So yeah, I can totally understand. So man, that's a scrub pythons. That's a funny one. I wonder though, I wonder if at some point, if somebody like, you know, somebody that's really hardcore, like Jim or Dave, really hardcore about scrub pythons, are going to get to the point where they produce them and then they start to chill out as, you know, as captive born and bred, because you remember like tweed, that was the most chill scrub python there ever was. I think he took his shot to the head. I don't know what's up with him. Yeah, maybe that's a bit of, he must have been like the slowest scrub out there because he was just like, hi everyone. And I'm like, any minute now he's going to tear someone's face off. No, all right. So it's, and sometimes you get the nice ones and it would be great if you could breathe the nice ones and make nice babies. I'd be totally all for that. But, you know, I've had too many interactions with missiles with teeth. So, you know, it just, it, that was my thought this week was, you know, scrub pythons and how I kind of don't miss them. Do you think that's like one of those things that like young guys, you know, like they measure manhood. The nastiness of the snake. What if that's true? If that's true, me being the old guy, why I'm like fine with the carp. A little old dude. I, I for one definitely think that I was way more tolerant of a pissed off snake when I was like 18 or 19 fucking around with him. Now it's like, you're mean. I don't like you. You, you, you hinder my flow of how I clean my room because I got to deal with you. Get out. So it's like, but then there are also certain animals where I will put up with a nasty animal because of what it is. Like I do not have a nice female maclox python at all. I have two very nasty evil maclox pythons. One's adult and one is a baby. And they both are piss ants. But I'll deal with them because they're female maclox pythons. I'm not getting rid of a female maclox pythons. So, you know, it's just something you deal with when it comes to, you know, whether you want to be big and gruff and whatever. Those are the guys who are on Facebook with an alligator that's living in a tote in the garage because they want an alligator. Right. It's like, well, what are you going to do with it? It's my buddy. He's my gator. I grab him every day and I hold him. Okay. And then what? Oh, I put him back down. So why do you do that? So we can take manly pictures with my shirt off and the alligator. You need to settle down here, buddy. It's like that that those are the people who are and those are the people who end up getting vipers and this that and the other thing. And it's like if you're if you're trying to test your manhood by having the most dangerous animal, you're an idiot and you're going to die. That's all I'm going to say to you. So have fun with that. This is true. This is true. Okay. So there's our our two things that we're thinking about all this week and, you know, we'll be bringing it every week. What do you think? Shout about it. But in the meantime, that leads us to our topic, main topic of the show is what is my carpet Python? You know, you see it a lot. All the time, and I don't answer it for this exact reason. I'm not nice. Yeah. You're that guy. Look at that guy like that. Yeah. Research on the guy. There's a man. So let's get Dave on and let's get it going. Hey Dave, welcome to to the show. How's it going? Good. How are you guys doing? We're doing good. Yeah, that's always a fun question online, isn't it? It's always one that appears at like the most random moments, and I love that a lot of people have gotten into the thing of like, hey, you're never going to know unless you've got it from a reputable breeder. Everything that comes after now is nothing but guesses. And then like everybody skips over that like totally glint like breezes right by that comment and goes right to the guesses and they're like, yes, yes, I'll call him a jungle diamond now. It's like, no, no, you didn't read the first one. Go back to the first one. So, but yeah, it's always a fun question. Content one. Yeah, it's never quite. I started putting up some of the posts that popped around Facebook to get counted in on a lot now. I actually, I tried to make a mission out of it for a little while and it almost made my head explode after doing it. It actually took a different list of, you know, people would actually take that read the thing and then actually email me pictures of snakes and ask me what it was. Did you not notice that what it said was that there's no way we're ever going to be able to give you my guess? That's all I got. The fact that you took that upon yourself and didn't lose your mind and like totally run out of like of reptiles is beyond me because I have a thought with it. I mean that I think a lot of people get, they see a pretty snake, they see a pretty carpet python and they want to get into carpet pythons and they get one and they obviously haven't done any research, but all right, I should say, maybe not, not it, but not much. And then they ask, well, what do you think this is and they're not trying to start a hornet's nest and then their post has started a hornet's nest and then they go back to ball pythons or whatever, you know, wherever they go because they now have to throw a bunch of pissed off at her. Basically, that's it. Some of them are, but yeah, you know, so I kind of wanted to at least create something that could be handed to somebody that they're obviously so going to have to do their research and care to learn, but at least they have something to give them. I mean, all these people don't realize that a jungle carpet python isn't a morgue. You know, they actually do not believe. I can't count the number of people I've spoken to that thinks that a jungle jag is a combo morgue. You know, it's there's, you know, somebody has to, kind of, what I wrote up, I actually call, I debate between calling the complete idiot to guide the carpet pythons and cover pythons for dummies. I don't know which way to go with it, but it's a crash course shooter. Yeah. That's the attempt anyway. Yeah, I saw, I saw a post and that's kind of what led me to want to get you on because, you know, you had talked about this article that you had written up. So I figured since we have this platform, you know, what better, what better, you know, way to get that info out there. And I think it's something that comes up a lot. And I don't know. See, I'm kind of the camp that I kind of feel bad for the new people in a way. It's like, because just like you said, they want to get into carpets and they get into it. And then they're like, well, these people are assholes. I wanted to get out of ball. I wanted to get out of ball pythons because those people were assholes. And now these people are even more assholes. And it's not, I don't know necessarily because we're assholes, but I just think that, you know, it's kind of like you asked the same question over and over and over again. And it's always the same response, you know. Yeah. So yeah, coming from different people. But yeah, it's one of those things, but it's like there would be a nice way to, if there was a nice way to deal with it where nobody loses their temper, but we're not biting a newbie's head off, and they get all the information they would, they were looking for it would be awesome. That's why we kind of really like your idea of putting an article out there were all the informations right there. And if you continue, you're just being lazy. So it's like, here it all is. That's exactly the way I was looking at, at least you have somewhere to start. And if you still don't care after that, or so if you use to cooperate after that, then I don't want to say there's a basis to form a judgment of the temper. I don't mean to make it sound like that, but that's pretty much it. No, but it's correct. It's like now you're just being lazy. I've given you all the information you need. Go read. It's like, yeah, okay. So sometimes it's not going to be a one two click answer. So well, it's hard when somebody gets that one animal out there and they put it up and you look at it, sometimes people get rather extraordinary animals and have no idea anything about carpet pythons. And yeah, it's not as simple as when, well, it's probably a cross of multiple subjects. It could be multiple bloodlines and you have all the, if you ever look at like somebody that knows about carpet pythons, you can have a name. We have our own linguistics. I mean, their name bloodlines, names of morphs, names of subspecies and click names we put into combining the subspecies. You've got a cover goal line that's a gamma jag or a regular jag or a, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. Hard to explain that somebody in a paragraph. Yeah, so I guess basically like your, in your article, you sort of, you sort of start at the beginning, which is basically breaking down the different subspecies of carpets, which some of them, you know, I guess probably the biggest one is, you know, people think that a centralian python is a carpet python and it's not, it's a sister species to carpet pythons, but it's maralia bread lie. It's not a spallota. That doesn't mean that bread lie crosses are bad. You know, I find some of them quite attractive, but, you know, it's no different than putting a carpondro, you know, at least that's how I look at it, you know, so economically speaking, that's absolutely, I agree. Yeah, which it's hard to really determine though, a lot of people, it's kind of that's kind of the whole problem as well, though, I think the definition of the term carpet python, like most of most people who've been into carpet pythons a long time take carpet pythons to me, maralia spallota, but a lot of other people do take carpet pythons, I mean, even once they know it's a different species, they include bread lie into that. I don't know if that's, you know, common names, that's about the common names. I would assume also, I mean, I would assume also they probably would lump inland and a few other things that once they become more common into that as well. So, it's just a basic layman kind of mistake, which, you know, can easily be corrected. And, you know, it's one of those things. So, the other thing I think that's confusing for new newbies is that when it comes to subspecies, you'll see some people that'll use the taxonomic name for it, you'll see some people that will, like for instance, bread lie, that's another example, maralia bread lie, it's really centrelium python, but people seem to call that one, you know, or I think imprecata is another example, you know, maralia imprecata, as opposed to saying southwestern carpet python, but even that's another one, is that a spelota, is it not, you know, you talk to some people, they say yes, other people say no, I guess it really depends on, I think you're right, Dave, that it's sort of this spot where, where do you consider a species, another species, where do you cut it off and say, no, this is a subspecies, there's some people that believe that, you know, there is no such thing as a subspecies, there's other people that think that, you know, that there is subspecies, so that kind of confuses that whole area as well, you know, I kind of tried to avoid that issue in that article, but once you are ready to have that debate with somebody, you don't need that article, if that may be, yeah, well that, well that, that's the stance for economics of taxonomy at that point, I mean, that's you've found some past that, once you can debate whether juggles and carpets, or you know, sorry, juggles and castles, you know, some people consider they should be merged, you know, once you can even get into that conversation, or have an opinion on either way, then, you know, you're a past trying to figure out whether juggles morph, so that's kind of more, so I'm trying to aim, I don't want to say I'm trying to aim low, but trying to shoot down past, how you can put that in the article, the one that I'm going to ask the PDF I'm going to put out, so good. Right, well it isn't, it's the beginning, it's the beginning, it's the beginning, it's the beginning, it's the beginning, it's the beginning, there are subspecies, you know, you can debate them later, you know, and there are more, and they're on so on and so forth, so, right, because I've already gotten a number of emails from various people, I got a guy, there's some part in Australia, and I've had three different people confirm this, I guess, I assume everybody in the states knows that what we call inland carpet pythons, the common name in Australia is Mory Darling Carpet Python, which I don't know, I got a rather slow email six months ago, there's some slang down there, I don't want to call it slang, I don't know, but common names, they use the term inland synonymous with centrillion, 99, everybody I've talked to from Australia, and I actually put it in Australian groups, and you know, message, just about everybody I talked to regularly in Australia said that that's pretty much nonsense, but a few people said that they've heard that use at least semi-regular, you know, it's another one of those why, you know, don't even know what's common on that, but great, great, that's even more confusingly, lovely, yeah, well, yeah, so you basically break down the six subspecies, and then the, you know, we are throwing bread lye in there, and you know, basically go through where they're from, and you know, some of the characteristics, and like you said, that other part of that is a debate for another day, I guess, you know, if you're keeping it simple, but you should know that I guess there's a disclaimer sort of, is that there are people that think, you know, different ways when it comes to that, then, you know, you sort of go into the different morphs, I mean, you know, have you found that people are confused when it comes to the morphs as well, you know, what was your approach there? I, yes, to an extent, but the morphs in and of themselves, I think people understand once they get to a certain point, I think the confusing thing that we do, and by me, I mean, anybody who's been running around carpets for a while, is, well, term things is crosses, we'll say this is the jungle coastal crops, or bread-like crops, but as soon as you see, say, a zebra jag, or a zebra jaguar, we all know automatically that includes the subspecies that the morphs originated from, you know, we'll know there's a jungle and a coastal in there because there's a jaguar and a zebra, or you can enter any more from that, but that's something else that people won't quite newbies, it just goes over their head, and so that's another thing, one of the reasons I break the morphs down, at least as far as we know, although known morphs to the root subspecies that they came from, I basically try and break them, I call it exactly known in culture, I try and give a definition for any term that might be a name you're dealing for a proper Python, but that's more than the morph section of that. Right, and so people should understand that, I think, I don't know if you included in here, but did you put in here anything about, like, Cal, the difference between, say, what people look as an integrate and as, you know, being across the difference between the two? I, that was another one of the, that depends which version, I've got a few versions of this that I've said on, that's one of the reasons I've never actually kept the thing, like, only just thrown it all over the internet. Integration, biologically speaking, is a natural process where you have, say, in the zone between diamonds and coastal, because that's probably the largest, where you have an area of animals that show characteristics of both subspecies, but there, it's not actually a coastal breeding with a diamond is a bunch of integrades, breeding with integrades, creating other integrades. So, right, it's become common slang and, you know, as to what to describe across, but I don't really think it's a correct word, and then as I wrote that out, I, that was one of the ones, that's an argument I didn't really, it's kind of an over the head, you know, right, for the article argument. I think it integrates it, at least biologically speaking, is an incorrect term. I know a lot of people use it, and we all know what it means when somebody says it, but we can't just take a coastal and breed it to a diamond or a coastal and breed it to a jungle or a coastal and breed it to anything in inland and create an integrate. That's not necessarily what was created at that point. The closest thing I can actually find the proper biological term would be interested to hit hybrid, but I don't see that coming out of people's mouths on a regular basis. Is that to be more complicated than this word? No, no, it would not. Yeah, I think that, yeah, you're absolutely right when it comes to the integrate is that, you know, I'm sure, I think in Australia they call them rainforest diamonds, I've seen them called, you know, but you're right. It's kind of a mix of the two, you know, it kind of looks like a diamond, but at the same time it looks like a coastal, and I have coastal diamonds, but I can't say that this is what an integrate looks like if you were to go down into the area where they integrate in Australia and have the same animal, you know. It's, I've seen them very greatly over that area. I'd love to actually just wander from when they did it to the other, just spend a month back after all that. Yeah, right. It'd be awesome. Turn all the way down to Victoria and and use up well to go all the way up to South Queensland. That would be awesome. Yeah. Can we work that into our trip, Owen? And now we're, you're, you're putting way too much off in one place. We've been there for a very long time. Right. Yeah. So, yeah, I included a small part about that. I didn't want to beat that one into the ground because that's at the same point if somebody's just trying to get a grasp on it, you know, the point to, I didn't drag that topic out too much. Sure. It'll be like old MP days where everybody was talking like everybody knew. Yeah. Well, actually, you know, that's a funny, the whole thing I was thinking of when I wrote this, when I first got into CrossFit, I joined MP.com. I think it was probably 2010-ish. But on the first carbon cycle I got, I bought it a show, blah, blah, blah. I knew that there were different stuff species and I'd done some mild research, but I had no very little hands-on experience and not much more even online experience, you know, looking at different animals. And I posted a picture of what I was told was a general and basically had that. I didn't even ask what it was. I basically took it, I thought it was a general law and I had the same, same thread, you know, old MP style and that actually was treated, I think mostly because I graciously accepted what most people were saying that knew a lot more than me was given the proper information and, you know, places to look in directions and told how to ask, you know, if you know where the animal spread from so on and so forth and I came back and I said I found out that it was a Jaguar sibling and then got the straight answer that's impossible or that's a general. Right. And I thought about that and, you know, I'm trying to figure out a way to help other people hurtle the same jump, you know. At some point, we might go one way or another either in person online, however it is. Right. Well, I think I think the morphs part of it has probably muddy the field probably more than ever with these quote-unquote pet carpet pythons because you're going to get these animals that and sometimes they're quite attractive, you know what I mean. I think of that one that I can't remember who had it in Australia but it was was a diamond inland coastal and maybe bread lie in there and the thing was just amazing looking, you know. So I personally am not against crosses or any of the type some people are. That's just my opinion. I mean, I think it comes down to it's a snake in a box and you kind of keep what you what you like. I don't know what you guys think but that's kind of my opinion, you know, I've both so I'm not for or against, you know, I can see that side of it and I can see also see the, you know, the plus side of it. I used to be curious and then I met you so that was and that was that was taken away from me violently. So, yep. For the most part I'm a purist but I'm a purist that likes crosses. I mean, I like to know the lineage going back on them. All right, I have my share of crosses. I have a couple of carpondros. I really I can't obviously can't knock the sensible about it but I like to know where they come from what they are and I certainly I like to be able to appreciate, you know, wild type animals as opposed to as possible anyway. Which which leads to the I guess to the with the morphs, you know, you have that and then there's the other part of it is the localities. You know, how did you approach approach that in the in the article? I I just went with the I to a certain extent I kind of assumed anybody reading this article hopefully had a vague amount of I guess you would say general captive purplological knowledge. I would know what a locality is. I'm trying to keep it, you know, short and sweet and not end up with a 10 page, 12 page article coming out of it. But I did try and note that there are obviously localities and you know as you go along you'll learn what the localities are. And I also noted that this article is primarily intended for people in the U.S. and unfortunately we have limited amount of locality animals here. Mix got some obviously and people have got some from him and there are some other ones. One way around obviously blood lines have been kept but most of the things we have have been, you know, you can guess that it looks like a certain locality but to prove it to any extent you figure I don't know 98% of the animals will ever see in the U.S. will never be able to be traced to a true locality unfortunately. Right. I think I think your example the other thing that you find popping up a lot and I think people get confused is blood lines and lines. I like your example that you used in there so maybe you could, you could share that with us as like how you approached explaining the two. I had a, well this was actually, it can help somebody had proofread this, Dave Kelly when I was playing with this originally. He gave it a read and pointed that out to me because I wasn't very clear with it. That's actually what helped me to clear it up. But what I call a line would create to a specific breeder or have a red line created by somebody say Christ lines and laser line bread line for an example or like you see cover real line jungles or what usually you have to do there. It's actually the gamma line jaguars especially since that includes morphs which is where a lot of the computing comes from once you start anything like that. Right. But a traceable blood line specifically I think is a much more limited line that hopefully goes back to the wild or closer to the wild like some of the diamond pythons say like the San Diego Zwine or diamond pythons. I would classify more as a blood line because that's held together more a line can be a civil by a captive breeder where it's a blood line and hopefully straight away all the way back to a wild population of Africa. I think that's a debatable subject is to how to use those words but I think that makes the most sense from what I think. I think another example with the end pen coastal you know as far as a line it's when you take blood line or blood lines you know bread them together over the years and that's sort of what Michael Pinnell did with his end pen strike coastal and he has you know these beautiful strike coastal that he produces you know pretty consistently but then when you have a blood line where people don't know is that the blood line of end pen is actually lemke so you'll see sometimes I'll use Nick and Mike as examples of this so you know you'll see people that have bought snakes from Michael Pinnell and say an end pen coastal and then you'll see people have bought coastal from Nick and Lloyd Blemke and really in reality they sort of trace back to the original blood line of Lloyd Lemke coastal it's just that when you start adding other things to it or selectively breeding it in any way you sort of have now changed that to a line more so than a then say a blood line that can be traced back to wild caught parents now whether or not Lloyd Lemke's coastal's are wild caught we'll leave that for another day but we all get into that tonight yeah that's sort of the idea but yeah that that confused me for quite a long time I don't know about you guys but I used to get confused on what separates the two you know basically at this point the only thing that we really could legally quotes do any kind of blood lines would be eerian gyrus right yep those are the only wild ones still coming in unless like you said they somehow animals go to the pit that leads to Germany and Australia and turn it that way but yeah yeah but even then you can't really prove you know you can't not without even if you knew it even if you thought and would you want to prove it you know I know you prove it not really you probably want to keep that one quiet you want to keep that quiet yeah you want to shut the hell up so yep i've agreed entirely one of the uh one of the other things that we were talking about earlier is like uh you sort of hit on a little bit but with um high yellow and things like that color phrases and other descriptions that people use um to sort of even muddy the waters anymore whether it's a marketing uh ask you know aspect that they're trying to do or um you know what's your thoughts on that I basically just noted that off is it's I don't think it's nothing more than personal opinion but it's it's just somebody's opinion and it very well may be high yellow but that does it everything else at least hopefully if it's put correctly obviously somebody can lie about anything or more for a subspecies but everything else attaches to something I guess you'd be factual high yellow or golden or high contrast or so and so forth basically attached to somebody's personal opinion of the animal not that that's necessarily a ball thing especially if it's somebody legitimate or somebody you trust but it doesn't necessarily give you any description is to the lineage or where the animal came from or the genetic makeup of the animal or anything of that nature that's pretty right how I looked at that and how I explained that out you know you can have the brightest high yellow jungle in the world but high yellow as far as a descriptor of the animal's lineage is useless so right that's just a physical description some some can even be misleading like the what was it the red red hypo jaguars yep the mandarin jaguars yeah an ornate jaguars is the end of the day it's a damn jaguar so I basically got an F2 American red hypo jagged sibling here for that note she's gorgeous I don't would use the term necessarily but back to that whole whatever that was you know we were talking earlier about you know my topic for the week of you know what I've been thinking about with this this whole you know thinking that if if this anery carpet you know proves out to be genetic the thinking you know what happened are we going to fall into a thing where like the red hypo jagged that we did with that where you know again that was very confusing to me as somebody that was coming from a ball python standpoint and trying to you know know the genetics there and then coming in you know to the carpets and and and like what what okay and that was my second uh that was my second carpet question on mp.com after the jungle that I it was a jagged sibling was uh I bought a red hypo jagged um but to a leery tiger jagged and I had to read it I had I don't know 40 comments on it and it was I was just what I was trying to get a direct answer to what the difference between a drag war and a red hypo jagged war and I I guess you get one of course because I'm absolutely confused until somebody at the end of this colony gave me literally gave me the janet story and that's where I got that and it went all the way back for this if I was looking what if it's the same gene it's a different gene is there a hypo jagged yeah yes yes there is and no it did mean nothing so yeah okay yeah but yeah it didn't that then that sometimes can just be a marketing ploy that some people put in there it yeah it can be daunting I I remember I think I got off light because when I first got into carbon python the big thing that was the talk of the town was now they come with stripes so I mean like that was it and then everything else the whole jagged stuff and everything from that point kind of stumbled in while I was in it so I did my learning uh when there wasn't really that much to learn so but I'm going to do it now getting worse on that note that eric was talking about I was listening earlier about driving home on the azanthic versus panoparistic concept yeah even right in and of itself I think all of these are just us trying to describe what we see and you know we can prove it's genetically reproducible but um if you really look at it and over the years of keeping various species of snakes and looking at things that I think for the most part that most azanthic lines and anthropic lines are genes are generally doing the same thing to the animal even across different species and definitely in species that have two different non-compatible scenes say like boa concertus have the primary type one type two and then you've got another one in bcl if it is another one or a festan maybe not the cause of type two which I've always wondered but um it's a reduction of red and yellow and the name anothoristic or azanthic seems to be tagged on to what color we think the animal should be so it was only rainbow always typically red but anothoristic perfect python should be yellow so it's anothoristic boa concertus and you can go on back and forth with that but even that in and of itself is just us coming up with an attempted descriptor of it which then becomes a marketing ploy so on and so forth unfortunately it seems to work out to be a marketing ploy to somebody it's normally not right and 10 of whoever started it but yeah I don't know about you guys but one of the yeah when you talk about adding names and stuff like that one of the things I often think of and I don't know I've probably been guilty of this as well but um at some point um is that when you're posting up um you know it could be anything I'll use I'll use a gamutjack again okay so you have this animal that is a diamond jungle jag and you know it did trace back to you know a gamma you know whether it's gamma one or gamma five or gamma fifteen or whatever you know it traces back to a gamma diamond jungle jag which gamma is just an animal I mean it's just a diamond jungle jag and that's its name it's not it's not a morph it's not a you know a subspecies or any of that stuff it's just simply a name to the to the snake similar to like what you would see with madam blue berry or like these crazy carpet names that people have had but when I see people you know that breed an offspring of a gamut say breed uh a gamma um offspring you know this diamond jungle jag um to I don't know a caramel and you're gonna hear them say these are gamma jag caramel jags you know what i mean and that's right about the jack bar siblings you're gonna have a gamma caramel yeah yeah which is I don't know that's very misleading I think to people um I think um I think that as a carpet as the carpet fights on community what we should be doing is is that we should simply be saying that look this is a diamond jungle jag caramel or maybe you put it's a caramel jag uh caramel diamond jungle jag however you want to wear it um but uh you know and then you know you can put in the description of somebody else like wow that's really right because I do believe that you know uh gamma's line uh does throw you know pretty consistent offspring when it comes to really bright yellow animals um but you can just simply put in there like yeah well linear just traces back to uh to gamma um whether it be like I said one five or fifteen um you know I I think that that's more of the approach that that we should do you see that with you know ij's you see poster child uh you know this is a pc blah blah blah ij you know uh coastfills you'll see i don't know what are they you know and people think that i don't know i don't know what the right answer is i don't know what you guys think of that like what your thoughts are like at what point does it become your own selected like why are you trying to pimp somebody else's project why not try to pimp your own project you know what i mean put a name on i would agree entirely yeah you'll use a note what's that good i'm going to use it as a note you obviously can you know add into your description the parent is winning it's which you should anyway but it's the animal descending from x animal b animal you know but once you get 12 generations away especially 12 generations away where eight of those generations were bred by people other than the original you know but you have a whole generation away from gamma and eight generations were not bred by john pataglia or bred to random whatever they may be you know it's calling it a gamma jag anymore it starts to get kind of silly i've always thought that as well i mean you can't say it's inaccurate i guess if it's consistently been a jag bred down the line from gamma but he's kind of cheap yeah yeah especially if you don't know where like the direction that you're breeding you know you may be breeding for high yellow but you don't know the guy in between but it just been breeding for babies to try to sell so you may not have the best representation of the gamma line so but that's it all harkens back to you know once we were told that people can't establish their own name because everybody else out there already has one it's a guess just laziness it all kind of harkens back to that where you can establish your own but everybody else's is already established and i just going to be lazy and slap a failing tiger on this striped animal that and now all the babies will sell as bailing tigers even though jason has to seem that animal since it's great great great great grandparents or something like that so yeah you know bailing tiger is a funny one for me because when i think of a tiger everything traces back to jason's original pairing so why don't double names on it you know what i mean like yeah why you put bailing tiger on a tiger i guess i agree that that's a debate that will go on for years though it will be that oh you're gonna give a baby sitting here from uh from a from a tiger from a bailing leery joint pairing that i've had to uh caramel jack from an impen striped caramel and i don't know what the i i literally don't well i'm going to sell these here in the next month or two i don't know what to call them i know that sounds absolutely stupid but i i i just want to use the word caramel tiger but i don't know if that's that's fine it's like almost a can of worms you know i heard if i had one of those let it go back that way the caramel but it's like that's one of those things where like a lot of people have been slapping caramel tiger on an animal that isn't a caramel tiger one and two in the tiger and so it's like if but if you if that's what it is call it what it is so you know if it's a duck it's a duck so but it's almost like people are trying to get away with the striped caramels and calling them caramel tigers it's almost like if it if you got to use the word tiger it's got to go back to jason's original bearing if it doesn't then it's just a striped caramel but if you got it use it it's a caramel tiger it's a caramel tiger you'll notice that uh nik nik mutton never uses the word tiger in any of his striped offspring because he doesn't right yeah but he doesn't have any of the bail in line he works with no you know another thing maybe you can put your thoughts on this dave is that one of the one of the things that always confused the hell out of me when i was just getting into this was this whole percentage thing you know you got 50 percent 75 percent 88 percent 96.2 percent you know do you break down any of that in the in the article you talk about that at all i haven't i don't know that might not be a bad idea respect to that i kind of assumed there was an assumption of a kind of an overall i guess i don't know if that qualifies as overall reptile captive reptile breeding knowledge but maybe it's maybe that's something i should have if that's always come easy to me based on math but there's a kind of a there's a stupid formula i've taught people i mean if you're breeding two animals and you know the percentages of everything in both animals if you just add the entire thing up and divide by two you know even if you're not good with math that will give you the percentages of the offspring so it's kind of silly but if you have a if you if you have a 75 percent diamond to a 25 percent jungle you have a 75 percent jungle the 25 percent diamond you add it all the way up you have 100 percent of each you divide it half you have a 50 50 and if you're going on pure math i don't know if that's something worth including or not what do you think it might be i mean because i know the percentages do come out um my thing is that percentages come out more with the like possible heads and that i found that when i first started that was confusing to me because it's uh i thought the 50 percent possible head and the 66 percent possible head meant it like it had a 60 percent 66 percent chance of like patting the gene on but it had the gene in it or something like that it was i couldn't really explain what my thinking was but as far as percentage to go that's what always confused me was that kind of stuff and i i'm not to cut you off though but i think no good point is exactly why i would me personally i i think that that's something that that newbies off the because i think that percentage thing really makes people think that it's a gene so like if you have a 75 percent diamond jungle i see what you say i understand what you're saying you see what i mean right like oh well this is 25 this is you know what i mean so i think that that's a great point and that's something that people that don't deal with animals that have multiple subsidies might actually completely go in the other direction it might that actually makes a lot of sense i never thought about that actually yeah okay it's a 75 percent jungle that's like a 66 percent head of zantic i i got you okay somebody that's not i that actually makes sense i'd never thought that i don't like that weird yeah i'm gonna i will add that at that point now that you say that i don't think about that that's actually a genius gee eric we're helping so you go into this longer than i have i'm just trying to go down that wasn't true or nasty i'll show you about 10 people now i just what do you think and kick me back anything i'm missing or this over people's heads or under people heads or yeah i think that that actually makes a lot of sense i think i think i think that's a yeah you're right because i think that that's an example of you know i think that what us as carpet breeders don't think about as like to us it comes normal that we're we're crossing these subspecies but i think i'm going to throw this out there for the for the newbies that may be listening to the show is that if you're coming from ball pythons if you breed a banana to an axanic you know you're gonna still have a ball python it may be you know this sentence that that but at the end of the day it's still a ball python so really what you're talking about is genetics you know but with carpet pythons when you're just mixing two subspecies together what's happening is that now you're talking about the percentage of of the blood from this to that but the one thing that i would probably the one thing that i probably would include is that you're never going like as soon as you muddy the waters you're never going to be able to breed to a hundred percent jungle again you know you're not going to keep like it's always going to have diamond blood in that if you're using diamond blood somewhere right you know what i mean you can't keep uh going going until you're like 90 i don't know what let's say it would be like 99.9 percent you know what you're telling me what you're telling me is you can't take a jungle diamond and make pure diamond out of it so okay damn it i have to rethink my breeding projects now i think um my this is another thought that i had when i was reading uh you know your article is that um it really depends on to me if you're getting into carpet pythons the one thing that i would i would recommend is that really kind of knowing what you're kind of doing if you're keeping a pet i don't think that a lot of these things necessarily matter as much as if you just like the way the snake looks you know maybe to a certain extent you want to you know know what's in it it's like keeping a dog you know you may go to the pound and there's a mutt there and you may never know what's in that dog but you just like the dog and it's a nice dog and you take it home and that's your pet um but if you're breeding you know if that's your goal or something that you want to do i think it's very important to uh to think about um you know uh lineages um you know uh what you know what what kind of animals you're buying you know i mean for for instance if you're going to do a a pure up like if you're doing say a jungle project or something like that you want to make sure that you're dealing with with animals that you know have lineage that go back to nice jungles um i guess diamonds would probably be a better example because diamond breeders are pretty pretty i i would say that they're probably the most um anal you know about it anal one um too yeah proving that it's diamond and it doesn't have you know it could look exactly like a diamond but if you don't have lineage that says that well you're shit out of luck man you know um yeah with all of that um but uh if you're breeding and for instance if you're going to breed crosses you know you may stumble upon this diamond jungle uh that you think is just a beautiful animal and has some uh traits or phenotypically it looks like what you know your project is and you know that may be a root that you want to go this so i think that those animals do have value um it's just is it valuable uh to you you know if that makes sense what do you guys think yeah that i'd try to put a bit in there with the uh i think if you like an animal that's all it matters as far as keeping it as a pet um or for any purpose but if you're once you're going to breed it and sell any offspring for any reason whatsoever you need to be as knowledgeable and upfront with your information hopefully know as much about the animals possible and if you have an animal that you've taken a flyer on um that you don't know much about and it's kind of shifty i have one that i was kind of hoping to pair up this year but i don't be big enough i have an odd um i put a picture of her people seem to think she's a palmerston fine jungle that's you some kind of a diamond jungle cross which i'm not describing but if and when i produce anything out of her i mean i'm basically going to have to say what i know about her which is very very little and i've it's a it's a you know it's a much i'm pretty positive it's not pure anything and you know it is what it is but people need to approach it from that standpoint i but if you like right animal you just have an animal you like and it's you know your pet snake come in a box in your house then it is what it is yeah i have uh i have this uh diamond coastal cross i don't know if you guys remember bumblebee tuna um yes okay so it was this diamond coastal cross that from back in the day that was had like this really cool fish netty pattern and whatnot and um there's uh back in mp this guy posted up the picture and there's a perfect stripe down the back of this thing and then it looks like a diamond but it has like that if you see sometimes in australia some wild caught pictures of uh diamond coastal and stuff they sort of look like a diamond but they have like they're not yellow like uh like a diamond they're yellow more it's more like uh like gold gold yeah yeah yeah so it sort of has that fish netty look with that gold and a perfect stripe down the back to me that animal is one of the coolest animals and it's like people would say it's a diamond coastal who gives you shit or you know what i mean but i love that snake um so yeah you can you can you can have an awesome snake and it can be across um and yeah but the most important thing is for you at that point if you decide to breed it is to not go out performing it to be anything you're not sure of that that's where i think the wine comes in which you wouldn't but that's right well there's kind of go oh such and such but it looks like uh whatever and so now you're calling it a diamond calling it a jungle or you know any re-enjoy or whatever it may or may not be right but remember i think something that people don't realize and i i learned this bull constructors because it's very bull constructors are very similar species concept you have a straight lane straight lane of bull constructors from Mexico all the way through Argentina with a random integrate zones between various subspecies and they're sketchy areas like north brazil which is the equivalent of i guess north brazil would be the equivalent of like the diamond jungle area where it's kind of what is you know it's a bct is a bca if you breed if you breed something if you have a cross you're going to get to 50-50 cross you're going to get maybe 10% of the animals very much look like one parenting subspecies 10% of the animals will look like the other most of them will look obviously mixed you take the one that looks almost perfectly to be accepted as one of the subspecies you breed that you will get we clearly generally clearly off offspring if that makes sense you know you'll think you're breeding to ij's but there'll be something in there that you're like rants so we're just looking damn ij i've ever seen i guess with process i i don't have a lot to say doing this actually doing it personally oh but i would think probably even worse than harder to tell just due to the actual variability which is what i think makes them awesome to begin with but with the variability in that you're going to have that one random animal because it looked like a jungle and you just get that one animal that you know is red or whatever it may be and you're like well it doesn't help how do i get a red jungle yeah absolutely i would uh i've seen that with um i've seen that doing with some crosses that i've done with morphs and stuff is that you get you get animals that um you know i i'll give you an example i have uh from the citrus tiger that was crossed with an albino um some of the offspring could pass as jungles i could absolutely sell them as jungles yeah i would but i could you know is that is that because we still kind of don't know what is in the hi con mudline or was it because wasn't there a hi con tiger mixed in with the citrus tiger kind of order was a normal hi con or some way bet well yeah i mean you know i guess the citrus tiger would be an example of like i would never well okay so there would be one of those topics where i don't necessarily look at them i would never pawn them off as pure coastals even though me personally personally i think jungles and coastals are the same thing i think that they're just um you know different uh a localities you know i met the 100% for what it's worth yeah i think that uh you know all the pictures i mean think of all the pictures that scott has shown us over in the chat room of of different localities of carpets that if we were to look at them based off of what we know as carpets here in the u.s we would get it wrong every single time you know i mean we would say that this is a jungle and it's not you know or we'd say that this is a coastal and it's not it's a jungle you know so i i would never proclaim them to be pure um coastals i say that they're tigers simply because the lineage traces back to those original tigers right whether or not that's what is going i don't know man i don't know but i guarantee you if i put them if i was a flipper or a job or something like that or if i sold them to somebody like that like say a wholesale them i just you know gave to uh to a guy to sell at a table at a show i guarantee you they would throw a jungle on that sticker probably because they're in the mindset of anything black and yellow is a jungle so yeah so yep you should you should see what goes through you guys are lucky up there you should see what goes through florida shows it's only been the last couple of years there's been anything we're going to do this pretty much i told two years ago everything implored and it was a corporate Python unless it was a Jaguar it was automatically a jungle oh my god i look occasionally an area giant so wow it is absolutely kind of nutty well because the jungle jags kind of held on to their price tag a little bit better than coastal jags so i wouldn't be surprised if that's what they were trying to do by labeling every jagged jungle jag well at least they put jungle jag on it i'm just saying if you had a flat out i mean coastal ij pretty much the coastal ijays and jungles are crosses there of what you see most of you just have a flat out oh for ijays they literally just write jungle carp pipe up oh my god like like to jungles we've only had we have very few breeders down here the last couple of years it's gotten better we had john florida um i can't think of his name now i'm having a complete maria gold john uh jung web yeah no yeah yeah most part it carpet if you bought a carpet at the show it was a flipper what was that Eric wants to come down there so go get them out now when i went to detona um i remember we were walking around and uh one of the one of the jobbers had uh diamond pythons on the table and i've told the story i saw them yeah okay so they're they're pulling them off as pure diamonds and you know what they very well could be you know um the thing of it is is that what i was telling they i think they were like 400 bucks and the person that was walking around there with me were like oh we're gonna go buy them and i said why are you gonna buy them what do you buy them for oh because i always wanted diamonds i'm like okay here's the problem you're gonna go and buy these animals and then you're gonna go and raise them up and you're gonna raise them up for six years and then you're gonna go to breed them and you're gonna have these beautiful babies that you know very possibly could be diamond pythons but when you go to sell them people are gonna say okay what line is for what's the lineage or where's the parents where did you get the parents from as soon as you say those three words or four words i bought them at a show game over yeah i bought them from these guys and oh yeah second you say the job is named from where you bought them from nobody won't nobody wants to buy it you know diamonds in my opinions are the animals that you should be spending some big bucks on so yeah um what do you think about uh lineage and pedigrees and stuff like that uh Dave i'm all for them i i thought it's like i've got a out of about 50ish snakes i have 50 55 snakes i've got a handful of animals i can't track back a fair way as loose as far as carpets um some of the odd stuff i got a couple of little tree boas that are born from imported graphic mothers and not but the almost all my carpets i can track all the way back i've got a i've got one girl that i kind of beat the story out of people that appears to have been stolen from somebody that i talked to that oh no the that's a weird story i talked to the creator who confirmed that it's most likely yes i don't want to post name into it um but i i can't really confirm anything on her but most of them are even my clauses um i can trace back i think it's i mean if you want if you really want to get into selective breeding at all um i think it's an important thing to know i mean you know the kind of animal they come from you know because we just said you can have a a clutch of animals and you have a pretty wide spectrum in that clutch but it'll generally open the course of pre-approval generations well i don't feel average out but you know you'll you'll start to come back to center if that makes sense yeah at least at center where depending what obviously it's both of the parents would be animal or different but you'll come back to center so if you want to breed per se high yellow or um i actually like to hide i like a caramel with lots of black in them so i tend to stray toward animal strike carmels that have a lot of black in them because i think the bright golden color devel sketch and the black for contrast is just smoking just in my case right so i try to do it but that's something i'm kind of going for a person like so that's i think it's good to know everything going back if you're in breeding again if it's just that and you like what make looks that's all that respect give me any intent on breeding yeah we'll need to do it more important yeah so what about the what about the dreaded question how do you answer that dreaded question what is my carpified on i mean what do you say to the new people that are listening uh you know that you would write on the on the facebook or something and how you approach that when i actually let me go back to what i the latest version of this then that's a hard question to answer it pretty much comes down to the short answer is if you don't know where the animal came from you will never for sure know what the animal is past being a carpet python and nowadays if we're definitely going to just think i mean it used to be when i even when i first started that there weren't enough red light crosses out there to make it matter but nowadays you could even have something that came you know especially with the jaguars and you get that behalf of the clutch it doesn't have the jaguar gene a lot of times especially at the trumpet job or a flipper who's just going to this for money they just dump off the non-jags you know to whatever random wholesaler to get rid of them and those float out there so i mean you could within the next few years actually pop up with something that's possibly even 12% prevalent but if you don't know what it is and you don't know the limit of the animals you got it from you will never 100% know for sure all you're going to get is an educated guess and i can give you a good educated guess you could probably get a better educated guess than i can but that's all we'll ever be even from somebody like Nick mutton i mean he'll give you an educated guess maybe but if he doesn't know exactly either you know you're just getting a more educated guess i guess you would say yeah right but yeah still being the operative term right right so there is no way of knowing unless you know exactly where the animal came from yeah yeah so so what do you what do you what do you what do you recommend to somebody say that you know do you put anything in your article of you know at the end of reading it like what's the what's the next step for somebody that wants to get into carpet python i think the first step really is and you could say it's about anything but it's determined what you want to do with it you know again is if it's something you're just looking for one awesome looking pet snake and you like carpet pythons because they're a little bit more semi arboreal and they move about and they're active and they're beautiful then i don't think it matters much past them you get a healthy animal from um somebody that's obviously caring for the animals you're not getting getting something from a flipper and you're gonna end up with mites and got no clue else but past that i mean you can pretty much pick up whatever you want you have any intense on breeding for any any purpose you know whether you want to breed to be species specific or do you want to breed for more or you want to try and create the yellowish juggles or the blackest whatever then you need to know what the lineage is and you should research the animals you're buying as much as possible otherwise you're waiting on an end to waste in your time because you're going to get an animal that looks dark or looks high yellow and 75% of the babies will be smudged out and i've you know we've all seen it you know i know you happen from animals with good lines too but you know you get the one random nice looking yellow animal out of a clutch of 50 animals that kind of look diffy yeah you know it's like the breeding obviously yellow animals make yellow animals but you get an animal from a line that's proven to look like that you're going to end up with a much higher percentage of animals that look like that right whatever your purpose being but the main thing is to realize what you're buying and why you're buying it i think that's my two cents on it it's a good two cents yeah so i would agree and i would agree completely yeah it's just one of those things of like you know every snake can serve its own purposes you got to know what you're worth what you're doing with it and if you're going to breed it it's kind of important that you know as much as you can about it so but let me fill on the flip side if your purpose is just to buy a pretty snake for a pet yeah don't expect everybody else to tell you what it is exactly that's the original question yeah what the fuck the snake i just wanted for a pet i really wanted to take them our properties on but what is this you know we don't know yeah we don't know yeah you want to know what it is you need to find out what it is before you buy exactly you know and it's okay like for somebody you know i think of this scenario you know this probably applies to me um originally when i was getting into you know getting back into reptiles and stuff you know i was building up my collection but at that time i was basically focusing on just having different pythons um and i picked up what was sold to me as a jungle carpet python and uh i have no idea what that thing was but it was not a jungle carpet python um it was huge i think it was some kind of maybe diamond coastal cross or something like that maybe somehow but um anyway it was a pet snake um and again i had i had no intentions on breeding it when i got into breeding and said uh you know the more i got into it going to mp you know and saying whoa there's more this is that uh blah um then i started to uh really want to get into that side of it um it's okay to have that animal as a pet you know i had that thing for about i don't know twelve years ten years something like that um and never bred it never produced it just it got me into carpets um i never once posted up uh you know what is my snake it would just be one of those things uh you know i don't know what it is clearly when i look at your jungle carpet python it's not that it's not that so you know um so you know it's i i think you know if i think most people that get a carpet python you know and are really a lot and i would say what would you say nine times out of ten they sort of get the addiction and one turns into ten pretty rapidly right at least that's my experience but uh um you know it's so it's okay and then you can have that animals a pet and you know the rest of your collection you have more of a feel of you know of what carpet pythons are about um i've stood up my first uh i think the first carpet python is a 2009 animal i'm pretty sure that my quote-unquote jungle my first quote of course double i'm pretty sure she's got i.j. i i don't know i think it's an i.j. festival i won't i haven't posted a picture really in probably four or five years so it's like right i figured out what i was doing he got some solid faces on it well there you go geez she lives here she's happy she's lost yeah but what do you want out of it yeah i think mine mine was at 2003 2003 was the first time i got a carpet python geez that was uh it was a while back but uh yeah i don't know any other uh you know thoughts on the topic that you want to throw out there Dave that we didn't hit on her i think that pretty much i think we've hit just about all of it i mean i think the most important thing is you know the realize what you're getting and why you're getting it and you know i'm the kind of person that always wants to know as much as possible whatever i'm getting into so sometimes it it almost loses maybe i don't think people don't care but yeah it kind of fell in my head but it really just want to snake that's fine but if you want to know about it you there's it's a fairly in-depth subject so you should take a little time and do a little research a little bit of research yeah luckily there's a book the book is fabulous i actually at the end of my article i had a site a book i mean i thought i had a site but i was like you know i'd be lying if i i didn't copy anything out of the book but if i can't say that a lot of what i put in the article in my own words didn't come from information i learned from the complete carpet python otherwise you know you have to get back to it but really this article i should be linked to a for sale type of that book because if it's really like god of hope you're going to dive into that book yeah you should cool so uh you have uh we'll hit on this before you before we jump off but uh anything cool this breeding season you got going on oh i'm gonna try my my personal little obsession is striped carmels or caramel tigers whichever way they know um i know i'm not alone in that but my first novel bleeding in 2011 when i actually started assembling directly for a long-term breeding project uh that that was what i aimed at um i i think i just i like the carmels anyway um and then the other odd pairing that i'm kind of stoked for and i'm not sure i'm so not sure if i'm gonna do it um it's a luckily thing in florida we're actually just getting cold weather so i'm actually probably just stopping eating at this point um i have a caramel zebra jaguar female that i've been up in the air forever as to what the parasur i think i'm going to and this is a complete month in a great project but both of the animals are integrated which uh we just took over non-integrated but across this right um i'm going to put a 75% um signed in from head hunter 2010 male honor i think get some caramel zebra's and jaguar's out of it get some diamond blood in it wow complete not a month project but you for this and you for this so it's okay yeah i have uh i have similar thoughts on that project we think that uh what are your what do you hope for the outcome of that like caramel what do you think the the caramel with the diamond and all that is gonna i do yeah that the diamond i mean they'll end up being 37 and a half ish percent diamond so you would tend to think that would brighten the caramel up the golden color to adults get anyway yeah um i haven't seen enough of one of those favorites in absolute certainty but i can't see diamond you know diamond crosses i haven't seen one that looks like it comes from this night with diamond crosses um the one that i have and uh as well as the diamond zeros will look nice um in essence though i'm diamond gentle tags out of it as well it's kind of a i i'm thinking everything out of it should be when we're going and even the even the whatever percentage of almost i guess should look nice i would think i haven't actually typically done this yet so i'm not even sold on it 100% so yeah sounds good to me though so the other option is to put my i have a really nice looking male zebra pure jungle that i may put in there as well right i'm not i'm not sure if i'm little hyped up on making super zeros either yeah but they're messed up pales so yeah yeah i love going to give us work but i don't i don't even like i somebody will eventually produce some really probably smoking super zeros at some point that i think look great i don't even think just in my case this right this is that great of looking at snakes right he says yeah i i think i think super zeros for me fall into one of those categories of you know just wanting to have the variation you know um i'm like when it comes to carpets i want it all like i dig it all and why get a patternless snake when i can have a patternless carpet you know what i mean like some i think the one topic we always bring up is like you know in the super zebra granite that it kind of looks like a uh maklots python but you know to me i have a carpet that looks like a maklots python whereas a lot of people may say you know well why not just have a maklots python which yeah that's good if you like maklots pythons but i don't know i think that uh they're one of those animals that kind of just fall into you know because i think the coolest thing about carpets is their pattern you know what i mean and the variability and you just wiped all that away so um yeah uh that looks weird i would agree i think i think is collective breeding gets better we'll have better looking super zeros too though yeah maybe the tail would be fixed yeah all right that seems from what information i can get i think that's somehow genetically linked i don't think that i i can dream so what do you dream it of now every now the tail good tails on good tails on super zeros yep uh no i think you're i think you'll get some that have well jason he produced one with perfect tail yeah yeah some of them do i've heard i know a few people have but it seems to be a percentage in there no matter what kind of some kind of risk factor just from yeah yeah i would have absolutely thanks to jin but that's okay i mean you know it's got a broken tail all most of them are quite healthy anyway it's well below the cloaca so yeah and jag's got a broken head so it's okay you know i would much rather have a broken tail than a broken tail than a but the nervous system yeah or you can have a super zebra jag that has a mess up tail everything broken yeah yeah that whole animal yeah but the middle of the snake looks gorgeous oh that's fantastic box it and sell it yeah well i produced what i thought i think well i thought because it pet it died but it was a super caramel super zebra jag you know and it was uh it was pretty awesome looking except it did have a mess up tail and i i don't know i think it died because it had an enlarged heart but it was you know far too super for this world it had too much super it was super super yeah and too much super yeah and so that'll happen cool all right dave uh are you going to post up a link anywhere to this or does this article absolutely i'll probably i'll probably do it tomorrow because i'm actually going to go back in now when we get up to phone i'm making notes and what we just talked about i'm going to put that because we just talked about the percentage bloodline bit in there because that's a very good point that needs to be added well there you go i never i never thought about how many people are probably thinking somehow that that actual people saying seventy five percent jungle very well might be the root cause of the reason that so many people thinking jungle is a more right yeah yeah but then that very well could be it i mean oh 75 percent chance of the jungle i never even i never even stumbled across that thought obviously yeah that needs to learn it cool so uh where if uh you know if you said you're going to have uh all string available soon you want to throw up your uh info or anything like where can people find out what you got going on i need to actually make a facebook page this will be the first year i've ever had much for sale so i've been kind of lagging my feet on doing it but i need to make an actual reading business-ish page um gotcha they'll be on the standard facebook pages though i'll put them through uh the card sites on class five page and the reader's rec page in the various others um post them around so maybe it doesn't know where to find me can look me up on facebook i have about a thousand h reptile friends all that should be moderately easy to find yeah there you go cool yeah yeah when you when you uh when you get your facebook page send it over to us and we'll be sure to make sure that uh we share it and people can get to it and all that stuff and when you get the uh the article up um let us know and we'll point people in the direction and share and all that kind of stuff so absolutely i'll put it up often if you when you put it up in the impio group as well yeah okay cool all pretty much and once i'm dumbing that i'll just ploddered everywhere you know people can download it chat whatever they want to do email it like it perfect oh cool so and i'll put i linked an email address in there so people can send me dirty emails about it i didn't know it was in England Python there actually is an incorrect name because that was first and bad luck guys oh that's the best argument i've had with anybody in years oh man that's great classic all right we're gonna jump off uh thanks day for coming on and uh and chatting with us about uh the dreaded question you know so appreciate absolutely thanks for having me on thanks for the idea yeah thank you absolutely you have a good night babe have a good one guys you too all right all right so hopefully for all you newbie carpet python people um we have uh stop asking us questions now so put the rest uh some of your questions now i'm a hundred percent agree that uh you know it's funny i was looking at our statistics from shows and whatnot and uh you know over the break trying to get a feel for you know what what people are looking for and i'll tell you what yeah there's a couple of them that we have done that you know it surprises me that they're the highest rated one that's which tells me yeah which tells me a couple things one that more and more people are coming into carpet pythons and they're looking for knowledge on the on the topic um you know we did a carpet python miss the bonk show we did carpet python breeding 101 we did carpet python complex 101 where we went through each of the subspecies and all that so i think it's important whereas like you know maybe some of the uh people that are more advanced than keeping and stuff may find um shows like this maybe boring or you know something that they don't need i always learned something from everything even if it's something that i've i've heard before um yeah which is why i wanted and the good thing that through through reading what Dave wrote you can now now when you're at a show you can maybe explain it to your customers a little bit easier in a way that they can understand it because my big thing is it's really hard to explain to people like the differences in subspecies and not use the terms of like you know a jungle is a jungle right it's like it it's difficult so read the thing and then maybe you can find a new way of explaining these things to the typical layman so and everyone's better for it so yeah yeah i i'm i'm into the mindset of trying to grow the community trying to make it uh make it which is which is good for the people that breed and um you know some people do this as a living some people do it as a hobby regardless of where you fall you know um more people coming into carpets i think is better for carpets overall um and you want them to have the right information unfortunately the problem is now is that you know in our day MP was the spot where you would go which was kind of all the information was kind of in a one area today i mean there must be maybe what 50 60 different carpet python groups you know look which makes it difficult to you know who's what group is the right group and you know where am i going to get their information about this because unfortunately when it comes to carpets which we sort of hit on a little bit you'll see that there's there's many topics that are up for debate and different people think different ways so you could go to one group and they think this you know and another group thinks something totally different so um you know that's kind of why we have the show so you know uh share the show and uh for people that have questions on some of those older topics i think that uh you know there's a lot of info that we put on those and i think that uh you know people can get stuff out of it and uh we'll be doing more of those you know more more of those type of topics my next one that we're trying to tackle um in the gene uh category is caramel um oh god i'm doing some research now so hopefully in the next couple of months start that fight awesome let's have more of this yeah well yeah i think i think i don't know i don't know what you think going but i think we should probably lump caramel the red into one show since they kind of like you know no i refuse two separate shows in two separate years like we can do the caramel in 16 we had to wait till 17 to do the red to do the red okay all right yeah well we're locked in the lease till 2017 then yep yeah yeah one of the things that i was going to say before we started uh then i'm pretty excited about is that uh and i know this is a bit away but on march third we're going to have uh our good friend daren wittaker come and to join us uh and one of the main topics of discussion that we're going to have is silver peppered inland and how he can get us a few ha ha yeah so uh so yeah that's uh coming up um well it's march first uh march second for him in australia but march march first for us um so yeah so that's cool i'm excited about that very cool let's see i'll get the closing list and we will rock it out of here so next week uh we have uh keith mick pik joining us uh we're going to be talking bolognes pythons uh if some of you remember he was on the bolognes roundtable um he had a lot of um i thought he was an awesome guest uh and so much so that i wanted to get him one-on-one and uh talk about bolognes and his approach to bolognes and caging and and all these different things that uh that uh he has going on for bolognes if you don't know about keith one of the things is that he was uh you know and he said it on the show he's very much into short tail pythons um and made quite a name for himself in that uh in that group um breeding some awesome stuff so you know he's focused on bolognes now and uh i look forward to talking to him i think it'll be a see a good show so that's next week yeah so if you have any questions for keith uh about bolognes pythons or anything that uh you know um you'd think would be of interest to hit on then be sure to send it to uh info at maralia pythonradio.com and uh we'll get it out there um one of the uh shout outs i wanted to give real quick is uh there's a facebook group um that uh just popped up over the break what's how you doing making lunch over there or what nothing i'm standing around i'm just looking to talk what are you doing it sounds like you're opening up a 10 of minutes what i'm not doing anything i swear i'm just standing here oh jeez uh focus wrap up the show yeah so uh this shout out is to uh this uh it's a pretty cool group that it popped up it's called carpet pythons discussion board um it's had some uh pretty good uh you know topics that they've talked about and different uh trains of thought um and all relating to carpet pythons so uh if you are not a member you're interested in some of that you should go check it out look up carpet pythons and if you do this group already it looks like you did i did but i think we're not from that yeah and i uh well if we're going to talk about it you might as well be a member you can exit if i'm going to be here oh it'll be here so yeah it's it's it's a pretty cool group um now as far as us excuse me borrelia python hold on i need some water oh my gosh okay we'll wait we'll pause it's kind of just in the middle of this always for you if you like the podcast and you want to learn more about marrelia then check out marrelia python radio.com we talked about morphs and such uh you know and you'll see it in uh Dave's article well but if you want to get an idea and then pictures what the carpet python complex is as well as the carpet python morphs that are out there you can go over and check that out on marrelia python radio.com um if you have any questions or comments about the show future guests send us an email at info@marreliapythonradio.com you can check out our facebook page which is marrelia python radio be sure to give us a like you can follow us on twitter if that's your thing at marrelia python you you can also i guess to get the show you can get it on iTunes or whatever podcast app you happen to use and do us a favor and spread the word about the shows by sharing it facebook you know uh we never really did that and for that yeah we should do that yeah but uh you know especially with this topic and whatnot share it out there share it share it all over the place um we appreciate it and the breeders that come on and volunteer their time uh they appreciate it as well so uh yeah and then as far as myself uh my website is ebmarrelia.com and my email is eric@ebmarrelia you can check out my facebook page at ebmarrelia and you can see what we have going on as far as breeding wise um i'm kind of closed for shipping so um i don't know i i've been toying with the idea of putting things up so in case people want to go on payment plans and stuff like that they could do that you know through the winter and then we'll get it shipped out in the spring but uh yeah other than that it's pretty much shut down here now because it's negative two degrees not a good idea to check negative two degrees so uh yeah ebmarrelia.com and yeah that's all i got all right um for me you guys can go through rogue-reptiles.com and you can go on to look up rogue-reptiles on facebook.com right now i have a few animals up but not a lot and if you want it you're either coming to get it or you're going to meet me at a show um the next show that we have is february 27th like i said there's no shipping none at all not until it warms up here um so if you would like an animal and you would be put on a payment plan we could do that or you'd have to pick it up at a show or pick it up at my house anyway uh also on the facebook page and on rogues website you can see all the breeding schedules that we have um the breeding diaries we have everybody's paired up at this point we're trying to get something cooking here despite the uh weather and we'll let you guys know how that progresses as we get further on uh that's all i got and that's all we got so what i'll say is thank you all for listening welcome back to maralia python radio uh we're looking forward to a 2016 season and we hope to see you all next week for some more maralia python radio good night hey chad brown here you may remember me at the linebacker in nfl where's a reptile breeder and their owner of projak i've been hurtness since i was a boy and i've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles i also love to encourage the joy of breeding and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist which is why my partner robin and marcolon and i created the reptile report the reptile report is our online news aggregation site bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of latest reptile news and information we encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news photos and links so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you the reptile report offers powerful branding and marketing exposure for your business and the best part is it's free you're a buyer or breeder you gotta check out the reptile report marketplace the marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling definition full of features that help put you in touch with the perfect deal find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system search by sex wait more or other key words use our buy-it-now options to buy that animal right now go to marketplace dot the reptile report.com and register your account for free be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptile accounts are earned free tokens with each shipping label you book use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum mat it also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace facebook page buy on the selling you ship your reptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rate ship your reptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully use ship your reptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates the materials needed to ship your reptile successfully live customer support and our live on time arrival insurance program we got you covered visit the reptile report.com to learn or share about the animals click on the link to the marketplace find that perfect petal breeder then visit ship reptiles.com the ship at animal anywhere in the United States we are your one stop shop for everything reptile related you you