Morelia Python Radio
Breeding season updates.
In this episode we will talk about our breeding season's at EB Morelia and Rogue Reptiles.
★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★
Hey Chad Brown here, you may remember me as a linebacker in NFL, where as a reptile breeder and their owner of Projak. I've been hurtful since I was a boy, and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry, educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breeding and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Markle and I created the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site, bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news. Feel it as a link so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists, just like you. The reptile report offers powerful branding and marketing exposure for your business, and the best part is, it's free. You're a buyer or breeder, you've got to check out the reptile report and marketplace. The marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling definition, full of features that help put you in touch with the perfect deal. Find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system, search by sex, weight, more, or other key words, and use our Buy Now option to buy that animal right now. Go to marketplace.the reptilereport.com and register your account for free. Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptile accounts or earn free tokens with each shipping label you book. Use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum ad. It also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page. If you're buying or selling, use shipreptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rate. Shipreptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use shipreptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rate, the materials needed to ship your reptile successfully, live customer support, and our live, on-time, arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptilereport.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace, find that perfect pet or breeder, then visit ship We are your one-stop shop for everything reptile related. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Moralea Python Radio. It's only two episodes left for the year. We were going to have a Carpondro show tonight, but we... Yeah, but on protested immensely to the Carpondro episode. And we had to postpone. The guest lineup was not there, and they couldn't make it. I'll make up for it right now. Okay. If you want to probably pick it a week. Okay. [Music] [Music] We've now discussed Carpondros on the show. We've never really gone in depth about them, and it is part of the Moralea culture. On the outskirts, those rebels, if you will, that want to live against. And diamond jungle jags are not enough. They need more. Oh, God. Where will it end? Does it be Rapondros? Can you imagine a zebra-jack Bolins? What the hell? Why would you say someone could hear that? Yeah. I know. It's trouble. So I'm going to have a... Before we get into that, we did have the Bolins show last week, and I resisted. You didn't. So... Yeah, I had the bug. Yeah. Yeah, I had the bug. So it looks like the one thing that I said is that I was going to have a trip to Australia before I got a pair of Bolins, but I decided that in 2016, 2016 I'm going to have both a hairball and a trip to Australia. Let's do short for choices, my friends. Growing. Doing myself. Yeah. Why not? So I intend to definitely play with yours, and you're not allowed to let me buy some. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have them yet, but you know how I worked at that edge before trying to figure out where they come from and how to get them and all that sort of stuff. You know, you can get them, and then you take the time to figure out, you know, how you're going to keep them. Where the hell are you going to put them? I mean... Yeah, that is. That is pretty awesome. Yeah, I mean, that would really kind of roll down, but it's funny that that is not the norm. It's like, "Oh, yeah, well, I've researched and figured out where I'm going to put them and how I'm going to keep them." Wow! That's weird. Other people just grab them and see what the hell happened. Exactly. Right? Not how that should be. So, well, that's wrong, right? Yeah, right. The cool thing is that I was listening back to that show. Yeah. There was so much that was going on, and first of all, I felt bad for both Casper because obviously it was, I don't know, four o'clock in the morning, I think. Four o'clock in the morning, yeah. And, yeah, he wilted out, and he didn't make it all the way through, but that's totally understandable. And Frederick, the poor guy, had to work in, like, 15 minutes after he... Yeah, he said he had... He's like, "I have to go to bed so I can sleep for an hour before we have work." And I'm like, "What the hell, guys?" It's like, yeah, we stopped. I mean, dragging them, but we'll have to do another show where we do, I guess, their time, we could be doing a show at like four o'clock in the afternoon or something. Yeah, yeah. Gee. Yeah, 'cause I'd like to talk to Frederick again, but, you know, I tell you, one of the people that really intrigued me was Keith. And he had, you know, when we were going back and forth about topics for the show, Keith had some good questions and some insight in his keeping that I thought would be good to talk one-on-one with him, so he's going to be coming on after our break. He'll be the first guest back on January 12th. Nice. We're going to be talking about Baldwin's Python's with Keith McPheeek, so that will be, uh, will be pretty cool. Yep. I can't believe we only have two more shows left. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so... I meant to ask you, and I guess we're on air, might as well ask you on air so everybody will stop fucking me. Uh, calendars are coming soonish? Yeah. Um, basically they're off being printed. Um, it should be here. Okay. I would think probably, uh, maybe the beginning of next week. Okay. Um, probably this week and not gather up everybody's info and, uh, get them. Okay. So once they come in, we'll put out the word about people who want to buy them who did not win the competition. I was getting bugged by a few people asking me if I was going to have them at Hamburg, which I brought them to shows before and you guys just stare at them. So I smacked you guys with calendars, that's what I got. Well, clearly we, we plan this poorly because it would probably be very beneficial to have calendars. I know. Except for at the reptile show. Why do we... I mean... It's not like we've been doing this for four years. Oh wait. Oh. Damn it. I know we tried to do it, uh, before Tinley the one year and that didn't work out. That didn't work. Yeah. I don't know when the right time to do it is because obviously people aren't, people aren't thinking about calendars and, you know, in September. They're like, what? We have to do the calendar show in like August. Yeah. Like, but I always forget the, uh, you know, how long it takes to get it together. So, but, uh, yeah. Yeah. So, we'll get it. All right. We'll figure it out. So, uh, tonight, um, we figured we'd do a continuation of the breeding season updates. Uh, kind of like what I did for myself when I did the solo. Um, but tonight we're going to E.B. Morelion rogue reptiles and, uh, talk about the hopeful pairings and some of the action that we've seen to date. Um, and, you know, stuff like that. Um, so, you know, um, I think, uh, breeding season is kind of like, it kind of like rushed. Like, usually I'm very like ready for it. And, you know, it seems like smooth, but I just realized like the other day that I'm like, oh shit, it's the end of November. I have to do it together. We're, we're locked in, man. Um, yeah. Time is not out. Oh, yeah. It seems to have come out of like left field all of a sudden. It's like, and you can't say that though, because you, you know, it's been coming. You just been like, yeah, it's a little ways off, a little ways off. Oh shit, it's here. So it's like, it definitely seems to creep up on us this year. I mean, we, we had Tinley, we had all the other stuff. I mean, a lot of times if you're not, uh, the breeder that is out there doing shows and various other things or have a podcast show, you can kind of see it coming and take your time and kind of time it out. Other times it just sneaks up on you. And of course, breeding season is very long and involved. So by no means does it like ruin you just because you're like a week behind or whatever. It's, you know, it has to be a couple months behind for that. I mean, wasn't it something that Nick said to us the one year he goes, I don't understand. You guys keep doing it like early and early. You're an early, you're not like, eh, it can wait a month. Like he goes, I'll later and he's like, oh shit, I gotta get that done. So it happens. Yeah, it's, you know, I don't know. I used to hate this time of year, but now that, you know, I'm breeding snakes. I really like this time of year. It's kind of weird how that all changed. That's because you work in retail. Yeah. I hate this time of year, man. I just do, you know, if you work in retail long enough, you just despise the haul because it's not a holiday to you. You know, it's a holiday to everybody. No, no, you're right. Yeah. Deep Christmas decorations and he's pissed off. God, yeah. Yeah. When you have people coming in and, and it's Thanksgiving day and they want, you know, they want to cook a turkey that afternoon and all you have is frozen turkeys and, you know, then they start getting mad at you. I mean, you know, clearly they, they, they planned their holiday poorly and now they want to play somebody. So they're going to blame me. Yeah. I see. That's, that's when Owen's fired because he took a shot. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't know how long you would last at that kind of job. Not a day. Not a day. It's good. It's good that you work where you do. It's funny getting in. Yeah, right. One thing is that, so it's the holidays and we were talking before the show, before the show started, how busy. Yeah. Busy, it's been, you know, usually we're like talking every day on the message thing and going back and forth and like we haven't. It's been flying. Everybody's talking to anybody, you know, and it's like, we're just all, you know, involved in whatever's going on. Yeah. But the one thing I was, I'm sitting there at Thanksgiving dinner, right? And I'm drinking, you know, the apple pie with my dad, you know, the moonshine apple pie. I mean, I'm staring at right now right there. There it is. Yeah. Okay. That's tough. I love it. I said to my dad, I said, you know, dad, me and Owen have been talking and, you know, we're very similar to each other, just like Owen and his dad. It's very, he's like an older version of Owen and you're an older version of me. So I said, you know what would be pretty comical? Is that if you got posted to show and we cook off. He says, wow, that'd be pretty great. I think I would do that. No. No. No. No. And the problem is now is that people are going to listen to this episode and I'm going to have to deal with this bullshit. No. Yeah, I said, I refuse to let that man unsupervised around you people. I said, dad, I'll just, you know, I'll click you on and, you know, Owen's dad can call in and, you know, they just go to tap and you can talk about you're keeping up reptiles. My dad probably stepped on a few. I mean, like, that's not how I work. That's right. I thought that was funny. So, maybe, maybe I'll allow that to like the fifth anniversary show where there's nothing going on. But, yeah, no. Yeah. Wow. So, uh, so yes. Um, what else was, ah, shit, where's my list? There it is. Okay. Well, you know, you've got to keep organizing. Things go astray quickly. And I learned. So, um, what show we don't do a freaking draft? Yeah, I know. Anyway. Down in flames. Yeah. Yeah. So, we, um, we are, yeah, we're going to basically break down, um, you know, what we're doing and, you know, what's going on and everything. So, my first question is. Go for it. Actually, let me pause after a second. There is something that I wanted to talk about before we get into our breeding season and is the shipping window. Um, oh, you're Lord. So, I just wanted to throw out there just so people know this and understand this is that, um, Nick mutton, actually, is the one that turned me on to this is that you do not ship during a holiday. You just don't do it. No shit. No shit. Why is that a great new concept? You don't ship that week. You just don't do it. You don't do it. Yeah. Well, I was, um, the, uh, the one girl, Stephanie, uh, Tully. Um, she had won the, um, uh, the, uh, Jack Hadalbino girl from me from the, uh, auction for Bob. The food throw auction. Yeah. Yeah. Um, which, by the way, has a group now. Um, we'll post the link up and, um, we'll, uh, so everybody can go over there. We did it on pick of the week, but it seemed to get lost and then it was pinned and nobody could find it. And so I think Jason and Jeremy finally decided that they're, they're going to do a group page and it's been kind of crazy hectic for all of us. And Jason was on vacation. So hooked up. So, uh, we'll send the links over so everybody can see what's going on. Um, anyway, uh, I feel bad because I tell her that I could ship and I'm like, yeah, I can ship. And I'm not even thinking that it's. No. Yeah. You know, and I'm like, uh, shit. You know, and I'm like, should I do it? Should I not do it? I'm like, no, no man. I can't, I can't do it. You know, I can't. I don't want something to happen. You know? Yeah. Um, so I told her, I told her, I said, listen, let's wait until after Thanksgiving. I'll ship it out Monday for Tuesday. Not even thinking about cyber Monday. So God, all this shit is Amazon's and craziness. All right. Yeah. So apparently, well, if you go to the ship, your reptiles, um, website, there's a big, you know, big thing at the top. And it says that, uh, you know, due to, uh, well, for one, they took away the insurance that people are going to ship. And they strongly recommend not shipping, um, simply because I think they said that they, they're going to be guaranteed delays. Um, right. In shipping because of the volume that's shipped out, uh, during. Right. So once the truck is full, it goes. And the problem is is that if there are a lot of packages, the truck gets full and goes. And if they don't get a truck back to refill to send out before they shut down for the day, all the boxes stay where they're at. And if one of them is a live critter. And so, yeah, I don't know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't trust it. So here's my question to you. Do you officially have a date where you shut down, like, it's shut down? No shipping. No matter what. Yes. And you've done this longer than me. So I'm wondering what your thoughts are. Yes. Yes. And no, I used to do like, I used to pull the plug, um, November, like 15, and say done no more. But then like a couple weeks ago, like, or two weeks ago, it was like 60 degrees outside around here. Yeah. Like 65. So I'm like, yeah, I could have shipped in this weather. So it's like, I don't actually ever pull the plug. I just will not ship. And it says on the website that we won't ship to a certain, after a certain point, or if the temperatures are certain, thing in certain areas. And I've never had a problem with this. Until last year, if you remember. Yeah. Um, last year, it is December 23rd. And I get contacted by somebody asking me to ship at an animal, uh, that week, or the, uh, that Thursday, or whatever. And of course, it was like, Chris disease. And I'm like, uh, hell no. And the first off the whole thing was, oh, yeah, I really want this caramel and this other thing. And I really would like the price. I really want this animal. And I'm like, all right, cool. We're gonna have to wait till shipping, you know, till the little shipping gets a little bit warmer. We figured it out. Whatever. He goes and he reads the website. Now, in the first email he sent me, he asked me about my, uh, policies for DOAs. Now, if you're first email, if you ask about a policy for DOAs. Yeah. You're going to set off so many red flags, it is ridiculous. So that was a little weird, but it kind of going like, all right, well, whatever. Maybe you just had a bad experience recently. So I told him, yeah, you can buy the caramel. You can buy this stuff. We're all set. We're all good. Um, you didn't pay me at all yet. And he wanted to have the animal shipped out. Uh, and I told him, yeah, which has to wait for the weather to get good. He immediately fires me back in email saying that, you know, longer wants the animal and refuses the animals because my policies are way too strict. And I don't, he doesn't understand how I do business. And I'm like, well, all right. Here we go. I didn't have anything to do tonight. Let's have fun. So what do you mean? And he's like, well, you know, I live up in this part of Maine and the temperatures that you're wanting are completely, you know, uh, they won't be that warm until like April that said adequate. I'm like, well, if you live in an area that's kind of cold, I'll have it shipped to the FedEx facility and you can just pick it up there. But if you don't want the animals anymore, I totally understand that. And then dead silence. And then his wife emails me asking me that they want the animals. Could I work something out? And I said, I will not ship if I do not do comfortable to the animal get there alive. I don't need your sale. I don't want your sale. This is how it's going to roll. And if you guys cannot wait until the weather has improved or you cannot ship by my standards, I don't care. That was into that email. Then I got another one back from him saying that if I could ship Thursday, he had a deal. My response was, on Christmas Eve, are you goddamn crazy? Was my exact email I sent back to this guy? Because I've had them like that. I don't care. I am not sending a package of live animals to be mixed in with everybody else's last minute Christmas gifts that they paid extra money to arrive at a person's house Christmas day. Hell no. I don't know what that's going to be enough. But it's December. It was kind of a warm December down here. But it was, I checked his thing. It was like almost negative numbers up where he was at. I'm like, hell no. So I lost the sale. Three weeks later, I went to a reptile show or it was the first show in February after Christmas. So both animals immediately. Wow. I don't care. And the thing is, is that if people want the animal enough and they care about the animal enough, they will never, ever, ever complain about shipping requirements and that you're looking out to get the animal there alive. They will not care. If they are those people who start bitching about, you must ship it out Monday because I need it by Monday. Why do you need it Monday? Because I need it. Well, the weather is not going to, I'll go somewhere else. Okay, bye. Yeah. Bye. Bye. Later. So from your question for shipping things, there are dates and windows that I will not ship at all. So probably around the 20th of December, fruits will probably like the end of the first week of January. I'm not shipping anything. Even if it's a crazy ass heat wave and it's 80 degrees in goddamn Pennsylvania, I won't do it. So normally I don't ship in those times anyway because of the weather. So normally if the weather outside is below 60, I don't like sending them out because even with a heat pack, it's still going to be cold. And depending on where they're going, if it's below 60 there, I don't like sending it either. Because, you know, it's all depending on where they are and how many trucks can get that stuff. But I have had animals received in cold weather months, like my roughies arrived in December, if you remember. I once had a pair of Maruki's dropped off on my doorstep during a snowstorm, which is weird because I didn't order Maruki's. So that was another thing. That's convenient. Yeah, well, no, it wasn't because these were... I ordered a pair of baby Malickans as a pair of adult Maruki's showed up on my front doorstep. And I'm like... Wow, they got that totally wrong. This is wrong. It's completely wrong. These things are looking huge. Yeah. It was just weird. But there are certain weather conditions in certain dates. But during the whole blackout, I call the window closed because normally the weather is poor enough that I won't ship. But I don't make grandiose announcements that everything's done, but I just kind of keep going. Yeah, I call animals in January and wait until, like, late February to have them shipped out to them. No big deal. Yeah. I mean, I've had animals shipped to me in January. You know, you get a little warm up a little bit enough that you could, you know, send something out. But for the most part, for me personally, I probably... I just don't feel comfortable. That's kind of the same. It's the temperatures, but rather than look at the temperatures every day. And I know it's probably bad, but, you know, I don't sell snakes for a living. So it's not like it's, to me, is a big deal if I have to hold them through the mark until when it starts to warm up. It really isn't. And I've had people, like, email me the weather report from my own, like, town and tell me that I can ship. And I'm like, "Mm-hmm." Like, I've had people adamant that they want the animal and they want the animal shipped. And I'm like, "It's 30 degrees outside. Next week, it will be 60. You can't wait until next week." Right. So... Is there anything that... Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. No, it's going to say, is there anything that you do when you're shipping out during the colder time to, you know, make the... You know, my question is always to see people. They punch a hole in the box. They don't punch a hole in the box. You know, some people say that if you punch a hole in the box, it activates the heat. If you don't punch a hole in the box, you know, it's like, "Why would you build a house and then punch a hole through the wall?" You know, to... You let that drag in. Well, they're called windows. But anyway, um... [laughter] The... To get out of the house. But the... I will punch a hole in the box just to get air flow through. Because I also used the 72-hour EPACs in my boxes, regardless of where the hell it's going and how long it's going to be out there. So... That's like almost... And that takes up almost one entire wall of, like, a baby box. Right. So the snake is usually in a bag wrapped around a bunch of newspaper, and the EPAC is in this, like, newspaper pocket that I have taped to the wall, so it can't move. So that makes, like, a big hot spot for the snake. And if it's cold, it'll shimmy its little bag right over to the box or against the EPACs. Now, I'll punch holes in it so you get, kind of, some air circulation, because I don't want it to get too hot, because those things do start cooking. Now, there's some people that say they won't get... won't heat up without, you know, air circulation. Yes, I guess. But I always microwave my EPACs before I send them out. So they're already ripping and roaring, but I thought I might put them in the box. Right. Because I'm not going to wait for those things to cook up normally, because that takes too damn long. So I usually pop it in the microwave for about 10 seconds, and then it starts just cooking. And it's a 72-hour pack. There is no... unless I mean, unless the FedEx truck flips over on the freeway, there's almost no chance that an animal is out there for 72 hours. If it is, it's gone horribly wrong. Right. Like, I mean, horribly wrong. So I don't mind jump-starting it, even though I've been told that it kind of takes away from the life of the EPAC. Not by that much. Yeah. Right. Off I go, and then if I'm shipping in the wintertime, maybe I don't punch holes in the box. Or I punch one hole instead of, like, one on each side like I usually do. Right. Oh. You know, and then you can send them out that way. I don't punch holes, but I don't know. That's my... I don't know if that's right or wrong to do, but that's just how I do it. Hey, do the animals arrive alive? Yes. Congratulations, you did it right. Yeah. Well, it's a very stressful thing, you know? I mean, shipping animals is stressful. Oh, my gosh. I've been, like, and here's the thing is that I hate it. I hate it. Absolutely hate it. If any of you are listening, if you ever buy an animal from Owen, text him. You email him. You call him. You do something. You send him a goddamn pigeon. When the animal arrives alive and happy, they're freaking hella. So, because I have so many people who are like, "I'll let you know" when it arrives. They're like, "Okay, cool." Then they never freaking do. So, on the other side of my death story, goddamn it, I swear to God. And it's, like, you see the little check mark where it's delivered. I will start the stopwatch the second it says delivered and I won't stop it until they contact me saying everything's okay. Because I've had it several times where somebody's like, "Oh, yeah. It's his to the right, but I'm not home." I'm like, "What do you mean you're not home?" So, I got called into work. Why didn't you freaking tell me I wouldn't ship out the animal? Well, it's kind of like a late thing, but my mom's just coming to get it. When's she going to get there? Well, she'll be there about an hour. Like, this thing's outside, sitting on your door, except for an hour. Yeah, you just lost your health guarantee and your live arrival guarantee. I hope you know that. Really? Yes. So, you start the stopwatch because if anybody calls you saying that something went wrong, what if they call you four hours down the road and so they just open the box? What were you doing for four hours? You got to be there with the animal. It's like, no, dude. So, plus also I've had moments where, you know, they text me in the go. It says it's delivered, but I don't see it. I'm like, well, look around, dude. So, and then if nobody calls, I usually call it after five hours. And I understand somebody opens the box. There's the snake. Oh, it's all happy setting it up, doing other things, and then you go and live your life. So, you don't text or call the guy or ship the damn thing to you. But, you know, it's one of those things of like, it's nerve-wracking. I hate it. I really do. I mean, it's like, 'cause you never won. I've had one D.O.A. My entire shipping career. And that one was I sent a baby in a belly cup and I taped the heat pack on the ceiling instead of the wall. The heat pack fell and landed on top of the belly cup and cooked the baby. Oh. So, yeah, yeah. So, really? I always get nervous about that. That's why I always do it on the side. Yeah, I didn't think about that. 'Cause I got one package from somebody who taped it on the ceiling. I'm like, "That's a cool idea." And I tried to replicate it. Never done that again. So, everything goes on the freaking side and it's taped there so it can't flop around them, regardless. 'Cause the top foam keeps it in place in the bottom foam and then it's taped to the side so it doesn't move. It's a little pocket there. But, you know, obviously you learn from doing. And, obviously, that customer contacted me immediately when he opened the box and it was DOA. He sent pictures in a video, even though I didn't request it. And I sent him a replacement animal and an extra animal and he's been completely happy with those two and it ended on a very, very good note. You know, and I've had DOA's arrive here. I had two baby blackface white lips arrive DOA. And, you know, either they give you a credit, they give you a replacement animal. It all depends on how you deal with these things. Bad shipping things happen. You know, mistakes happen and animals can die. So, you got to understand how you're going to deal with that. But that's why it's always nerve-wracking. 'Cause you never want an animal to die and you also never know how someone's going to take something like an animal dying or bad news like that. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Some people just don't understand that, you know, well, one, you're dealing with a live animal and two, the conditions, you know, and that's why I guess you have to be super, super adamant about what you, what you're, you know, what you're going to ship in and what you're not going to ship in. Yeah. What's, that's what kind of tell people. I mean, we talked about this number of people who are like getting into their own reptile business. It's always like stick to your guns, stand by your name, stand by your product, stand by all those stuff. And, and basically you got to be under, you got, everybody said I understand it. It's not the end of the world if you refuse to sail to somebody. Right. You don't, don't get bullied into making a mistake. Don't get bullied into agreeing to shipping something when you're not prepared or not happy about it. 'Cause that is when a mistake will happen and an animal will die and not you're dealing with an irate customer who you ship an animal to, even though they demanded it, it shipped to them. And, I mean, you can say the things of like, I don't care to see live arrival. I don't care to see a healthy animal. And that person will still get the dead animal. And then for all you know, they're going to be on the next fauna, B.O.I. person you out because you sent them a dead animal. So it's, it's stick to your guns. If you lose a sale, you lose a sale. It's not that big a deal. And you'll feel much better afterwards. Nobody wants an animal to die in a box. No. No, absolutely not. So we, so now that we talked about that, we're going to talk about our breeding seasons and where we're at. So I guess let's start with one of the things that comes up a lot is the fact that when you move, you know, it's hard to transition your snakes. We all know. We all know that you moved a year ago, basically around this time. So I guess my question, you know, like what's your experience has been? Do you think your females are locked in or, or, you know, I don't know, do tell? I still don't think that 100% of my guys are locked into the new room because you see certain things out of them. You know, I've had some minor respiratory issues the past month. I've had a few guys acting a little talk-eyed. I've had a few animals. They just didn't take the move well at all. And of course then I've had other animals that took it in stride with perfect camps. And it's almost like the older animals bounce back much quicker than the younger animals. I have, my adult female caramel is breeding right now. She's been locked with her male for the past three days. And this is completely normal for Venus. She's always the first one to breed. She's always the first one to legs. She's always the first one back on food. She's the one who lays the eggs in a pile and leaves them by the front door because she knows that like, you know, male comes in. She's like, all right, cool. You get over here so that I can make the eggs because they know they're feeding me again. So it's like, she knows the ending in the score here. So. Right. Doesn't upset her at all. So she's dialed in. But then I have another female Jack who is their second year. She was supposed to go last year because of the move. She really go. I think she ovulated. But I don't think she ovulated until way late after I'd already assumed the entire season was a bust. She wants nothing to do with her male. I'm not sure if she's dialed in right. And I have the same, I've had more females throw snippets to the fact that a male is in their cage this year than I have in any other year. So either I have horribly made a huge mistake. And four or five of my females are actually boys. Some of them are proven female so obviously it's not that bad. Or they're just not settled right. We're not clicking right now. It is really early on in the season. I've just started to kind of drop down and I am still making adjustments to the sacrum because, you know, this is, it's still kind of newish. You know, like you said, I've been here for a year as of the 15th of December. But this is a different winter than we face last winter. There's different temperatures, there's different disc, blah, blah, blah, blah. We haven't really gotten into it. Plus I find it that we usually have a worse January and February in Pennsylvania. I mean, that's when it's like definitely cold and there's like a couple inches of snow or a foot of snow or something like that. I've seen December go with no snow and barely any cold all the way through the Christmas. So, like I said, it's a little early but who the hell knows. But I would say that it were still not dialed in to the way we were at the old place. But I was there for four years, breeding there. This is only year one. I don't even want to call last year year one. That was like half because we only got two clutches. And those females were both proven females that were a little bit on the smaller side and what have you. Plus I gave my two biggest girls last year off anyway. We didn't even try to breed them. So, it's just one of those things where we're going to see how it goes. This is the weird thing is talking with everybody else. When you have your move, everybody tells you no matter what, you're going to have a shit year. Complete shit year. You can move graphic females in March. You're still going to have a crappy year when you get the breeding season. And that's just because things aren't dialed in right? The rooms don't smell right. You can put them all back in the same exact cages. It's something to throw them off. So, what I've been hearing is that the year after, when everything is dialed in, when everybody is comfortable, all of a sudden it's like they make up for lost time. It's almost like if you have a female that has low yields or viable eggs, you give her a year off and then you breed her again. She usually has a bigger clutch, a better clutch or whatever, a healthier baby. So, I've been pulled by many people that I might take to blow it out of water this year. So, who the hell knows? But I guess the compensate for last year, we are shooting for a lot more pairings. But right now I think it's a little too soon to tell to see where we're at. But I like the sign so far. I've been seeing locks out of two pairs of coastal carpets already. And I've seen interest in various other pairs. I don't know what the porn things are doing. Nobody really cares anyway. But, I've seen some stuff and I've heard good things about the animals that I have on loan. Except from you. Everything else needs to go on okay. And we'll see how it goes. Yeah, so, well, I started the official cooldown for me started this past Sunday. What I've noticed, I think I've said this on the show before, but what I've noticed, especially with my collection and where I'm from, is that the weather really doesn't get cold until around September. So, I used to do it in November, but I sort of have waited a little bit longer because I kept seeing these, you know, I mean two weeks ago, it's like 65 degrees. I think at one point it was 70 degrees, which was crazy, you know. And I know that that's the outside weather, but I don't know. To a certain extent, I think people that say that, you know, I hear this a lot, I used to hear this on reptile radio a lot that they don't do anything. You know, they don't, they don't cool down, they don't do nothing, they just let them do it and they put them together and it is what it is. But I don't think that people realize how much your room cools off when it gets cold outside. You know what I mean? Like, you know, the room does naturally cool down. And so, you know, I have heat going to my room that's specifically, you know, for that room. So, it maintains an ambient temperature of like 80 degrees, you know. And I just basically click that off at night and, you know, the colder it gets, the faster that drops down, you know. But, so anyway, I go and I, and this is, if you're breeding carpet pythons, you'll stumble upon this. For no doubt, at some point in your carpet python breeding career that you will. So, me and Owen have this fabulous pairing going together. And I decided, usually, if I know that that male is just going to that one female, I put them together for the season, the cool down, the whole thing, until she's, you know, until I know she's grab it, then I pull. But, basically, they stay together the whole time. So, I put them in there, and she's a little, you know, she's a little, like, you know, jaggy. And I couldn't tell if they were combating. Or, if they were combating, or she was just having a fit because the snake was in her tub. Or, you know, I don't know what was going on. Yeah. It's hard, especially with virgin females, because a lot of them, if they're not queued into the, I should be breeding right now, a lot of them, just all of a sudden, there's a random ass snake in their cage, and they're freaking a fuck out. So, I mean, that happens, and sometimes it takes a little bit for them to calm down, or it takes another reintroduction, or it takes you, for them to be further in this season, to really be okay with this male being in there. So, sometimes some females just want to get the hell away from it. So, a lot of times, but also, if it is a younger male who thinks it has no shot taking on this other male, it will try to run the hell away, too. So, it's kind of hard. But also, another thing is that when jags go to combat, it looks retarded. So, it just stayed at least. Yeah. Oh, my God, it's hilarious. Yeah. Because I had this deeper jag, and I'm like, "Why is he laying on top of that other one, switching?" And then, I put the other one in for the other male, and they combed it, and I'm like, "Oh, is he trying to combat, and just failing miserably?" So, it's like, sometimes, you've got to take that in. Now, obviously, you and I talked about it, and we said that we're going to wait and see what happens, but it's something that kind of is in the back of your mind where it could have been mis-sexed, it could be a boy. Yeah, it happens. You know, I mean, sometimes that's the way it goes. And you know what I found? The best way to deal with that is with a proven male. It's like, I don't know if this thing's a male or female. It doesn't really like any of the boys I put it in. If you put a proven male in with this animal, and he immediately goes over and starts trying to combat, guess what? Because a proven male at breeding season is not going to be, like, if they're two virgin animals, you might not get combat combat. You might get, like, a little kind of, like, an attempt at combat. Nobody knows what they're doing. But if you have a proven male, he's going to be like, I get the hell away. It's not like he's going to just be right over there. So, a lot of times, with my animals, it's like using the proven boys as like, is this a male? If he goes over and starts spurring, then he immediately comes out because, yes, it's a girl because he says it's a girl, which is, you know, it works nine times out of ten. I say that because I have this one animal that my proven females want nothing to do with, and my proven males are totally okay with, so I don't know what the hell it is. So, it's like, and when you probe it, it's one of those in between years. I'm like, God damn it. So, it's a mystery. It means a mystery. I don't know what the hell I'm going to do with it. So... The tweener. The tweener. The dreaded tweener. So, do you have your pairings set out for the season? Are you... Yes. Are you... Okay. So, you're locked in. You know exactly what you're doing. Yeah. Now, I would like to take this moment to apologize to Rob Stone that my website is out of date, and that I was reprimanded in the pre-show for that because Rob went in for a look at it, and I have not updated. I throw myself on the mercy of the court, and we'll get on that eventually. So... Well, I will say that in preparing for the show, I have updated my website so that you can go to... Oh my gosh. ebmorelia.com, and you can go to my breeding diary. If you click on that page, all the years will pop up, and 2016... Click on that, and you'll be able to see what pairings I have lined up. Which, you know, I'm pretty excited about the season. I think I have some cool things going on. You know, I have a lot... Crazy thing is, I think I have more pure stuff than I do crosses. Oh my God. Which is kind of crazy. What the crosses that you're doing are like a doozy. I mean, they're pretty good. I mean, it's like you're doing that one awful lot with like an albino. And it's like that is a way out there. It's awesome, but Jesus. So... Yeah, I think... I don't know if you've ever seen a black pastel ball python. I mean, the black... An albino black pastel ball python. Oh, right? Yeah, I'm not. Okay. I've probably walked by 10 million and been like shh man. But I don't know, so... Okay, so... Yeah, if you look, I have them on my site as well. Because I have one that came from Bill. Anyway, my hope is to somewhat replicate those kind of like circle things in albino form. I don't know if it will be as contrast or have as much contrast as that. Because obviously, black pastel is very dark snake. I think I believe it's similar to cinnamon, maybe. You know, along those lines. I can't help you. I have no idea what we're talking about. Yeah. I'm speaking Dutch to you now. You are. It can't help you. Yeah, but I don't know. I think that that would be cool as an albino. You know, I mean, I think nobody's really done it that I know of. So obviously, I'm not going to... I'm going to produce het. I'm curious to see, you know, what will pop out of that. My Ocelot Jag came from Paul Harris, which, as far as the Ocelot Jag goes, there is the ones from Mike Curtain. Who the thinking is, is that Paul Harris and Mike sort of have the same lineage of animals that maybe the stuff that Paul was working with. Those jungles came from the states, which is the same as what Mike was working with. So are they similar? You know, that kind of thing. Mike, this past year, Mike Curtain, Scattershot, Exotics. I don't know. Anybody has kept up to date with his Ocelot Jag that he produced this past season. But if you haven't, you should go check out his Facebook page because he produced, I believe it was Ocelot Jag to Ocelot Jag. Yep. Amazing. Amazing. You're gorgeous. Oh my gosh. Even the non-Jag Ocelot are gorgeous. He brought them to Carpetfest, just to screw with it. They were, they're gorgeous. And I don't like any of these things. I do not own Ocelot. They're not really on my radar. But every white plane or every time I talk to Mike or see Mike, you can't help but look at him and kind of drool a little bit. They're gorgeous. Oh, yeah. So it's, I would, I would, I probably am not going to ever get a pair just because, eh, They're gorgeous animals. So I like that one, but they know. And shot up. Yeah. So feels a burn. Yeah. That's about me. You breathe. I'll burn. I'll burn. I'll burn. I'll burn. I'll burn. I'll burn. I'll burn. I'll burn. I'll burn. I'll burn. I'll burn. I'll burn. We'll talk about her. Well, you got the Tiger IJ too. And you're reading the Tiger IJ to... Poison Ivy. Poison Ivy. My God, man. So, how many IJ people lost their shit when they saw that parry? Yeah, I don't know if people really... I mean, that Tiger IJ is really not out there. Like, you know, you see a lot of other IJ stuff. I mean, die hard. IJ fans, they know what's going on with that. Honestly though, even more exciting about that pairing is that my number one pairing is... I have an N Pen female named Dore. She was owned by Luke Snell. And I picked her up back in 2012 or 2011. He produced one clutch with her. I produced one clutch with her. I've given her off the past, what, couple years basically. And for everybody that knows me as far as Eury and Jai's go, my pedestal, if you will, has always been the poster child animals. For anybody that doesn't know what poster child is, go look up Spitfire reptiles. It was an animal that... I think I talked about this on the show too. But basically, that animal was, I believe, Will Leary had that animal. And it was a wild caught. And basically, she had this hypo type of look. And she produced two clutches. The one was a pure IJ clutch. She was bred with an IJ. And the other one, she was bred with a Jai. Now, the IJs that were produced from that clutch, I believe, most of them went to Erin Ballet. And she had them for a long time. Now, I have animals from her that were PC crosses, but no straight poster child lineage, just like that line. And this year, I was lucky enough to be able to work out a deal with her and acquire one and that male, which, dude, I'm telling you, man, it's... I'm telling you, though, man, if you can't... When you come over, when you come over, I'm going to show you this animal. And as much as I know, you're not a fan of the brown snake, I get it. I'm telling you, that you're going to dig this snake. I'm telling you, I'm telling you. The problem is, I don't really tell you you're wrong, because every time I do that, it's like, all of a sudden, there's a pair of those animals that I told you you were wrong about in my collection. I'm like, "God damn it, how did he do this?" So it's like, I don't want to say it. And I'm like, in 2016, I'm going to be like, "I have these M10 IJ's." "God damn it, how did he do this?" So it's like, yeah. Well, what I'm trying to replicate is, in 2012, Matt LaCoss did that same pairing. Basically, he did an M Pen, which, for lack of a better Michael Penel bread, he has VPI is what it is. But his IJ's had a certain look to them. He bred an M Pen IJ to a poster child lineage IJ, and I have a pair of those animals from that clutch, which are amazing. I mean, they're the next level for IJs, you know? I mean, this is where selective breeding comes into play at its finest. I mean, as I'm going through, looking at my IJs, and I especially look like Poise and Ivy. So like, with my first clutch of IJs, when I bred them, I kind of like, I held them back. I know Zach was real wanting one real bad, so I kind of sold one. Okay, there was that other guy whose name we won't mention that I sold a bunch of him to him too. I sold a few at what he called, at Tinley. So, you know, that clutch, I really didn't get to see grow up in the little nuances. I held one animal back from that clutch, which I still have, just a fabulous animal. But, with holding back this whole clutch of, from Poise and Ivy, from 2014, what has shown me is that, you know, the potential for selective breeding is just, is off the charts. It's just nuts. I mean, there's so many directions that you can go. I mean, when I tell you that there's so many, like, in this clutch alone, there was like these animals that have really, really dark bands on them. Like, I mean, they're just black, like jungle black, you know, and there's other ones that have this axanic look to them. There's other ones that have like this peppery look to them. There's like these crazy stripes on the side, just like all these little nuances that, you know, maybe they won't be anything, maybe they will be something. Who knows, but unless you give it a whirl and try, you're not really going to be able to tell. And I just think about, like, you know, the selective breeding that's been done with other, like, I think, jungles and stuff like that. And, I don't know, it's pretty exciting. The other thing that I wanted to tell you, since we're on the subject, watching animals grow. Dude. Inlands. Hey, let me tell you something. So wait, hold on, hold on. I got it. People are, I'm telling you, man, if you guys out there in the NPR world and including you, Mr. McIntyre, do not have inland, you need to get some, because I tell you what, I'm there and I'm clean and snakes. And, like I said, we've been busy and whatnot. So, like, spending time in a reptile room has been kind of crazy this past week. You gotta get in, you gotta get in. The other day, I was in there and I'm spending some time and I hope I'm opening up the tub to my inlands. And I'm like, whoa, what, what, what? They're like this gray, blue, like, you know, like, it's like, you know, when carpets are born, they kind of have that ugly look and they're like dull little, dull animal. They make it look pretty. Dude, I didn't realize what they changed into. I know, I know. I know. I know. I've almost had a pair twice now. I was trying to work out someone who had been adjusting and I was almost going to get a pair that was, like, two years old. And that fell through and then I was trying to make out. We did the trade with Nick for Romulus, the rough scale. And I was trying to work out that and I was talking about a pair of his inlands, but he only had, like, one or two left, so he couldn't do that, so I couldn't get them. And I was like, I've almost had them, like, twice now, so they need coming. I will be getting them because I'm sitting here and you and I talked that one time, which this is always what happens when I talk about something and it can't happen. So, you and I were talking, you're like, "Well, you've had success with the bread line." I'm like, "Well, yeah." And you're like, "Well, the inlands are like the bread line." I'm like, "What? What the inlands are like the bluish, gray bread line." I'm like, son of a bitch. Is that what it's like? So, like, admittedly, I wouldn't have to do anything. It's just to add, like, two more cages to the winter room. Yeah. Or so, when you're bread line, God damn it. So, it's like, they're right on the list. They're at the top of the list. If I do not have them by 16, the end of 16, I will be shot. Because I know we're saving up to do the all Australia things, but there are a few animals, so they will have to add to the collection in 2016. So, yeah. But, yeah. They're at the top now where a pair of inlands doesn't look that crazy anymore. I mean, it's not close to a grand, maybe, for a pair? Yeah, probably. I think the problem with inlands is going to have is that, and it's very hard to photograph them. You know, it's very hard to capture their colors and everything in a photo. I think what's going to do it for them is like when, you know, and this is my plan, is like, you know, the year that I'm going to be producing them, you know, I'm going to be bringing one to Tinley. You know, an adult, you know, I have, what, 3.2? 3.2. So, I'm going to bring an adult male, you know, just one that can come and chill so that people can see them and appreciate them. I think that's what's going to, when you start to see, when you start having people have adults in a lot of numbers, people will start to gravitate towards them. You know, too, man, there's so chill. I know, chill. The thing is, I think the other thing that will do it is, eventually, it has to happen. That one of those silver peppers falls into that pit that's in Australia that appears with you in Germany. Oh, yeah. One of them will do that. I don't know how we get it to the pit. I don't know how it gets in the pit. I don't know who picks it up after it comes out on the end of Germany, but eventually, the silver pepper didn't win. We'll find its way out of Australia. And once that happens, and once it's reproduced in Europe, and it eventually trickles its way to the United States, that is when you're going to start seeing more people invested in the Inland. I know we don't want to say that we're all not more crazy or anything like that, but I guarantee you, more people will be interested when it's a silver pepper didn't win. Yeah, well, the cool thing about those is that's just handed down probably the coolest carpet once they're in the night. Dude, that's just- It's absolutely gorgeous. Because here's the thing, they tried making the Inland jags and they weren't really- they were in. I mean, like, there was nothing there. It's like- Yeah. They didn't- They didn't look- 'cause, like, you took everything that was cool about an Inland, which is their color, and you diluted it with, like, a jag, and it didn't work. It's almost like how no one really puts a lot of stock in high blood rental tags. Because, you see, it's not there. There's no real draw to it. It's not like a jumble jag. We're neon yellow. So, it's whatever. Yeah, well, you know, the thing I saw when you bring up rattle jags is that there was a thread that was going around on Morelia Pick of the Week about bringing a hypo to an ocelot jag. And, you know, everybody was busting Nick's balls about, you know, he probably just skipped a beat. He jumped off his roof. You know, all kinds of crazy things because- Well, the thing is, once they posted that, he probably, like, shuddered and fell on the ground about a disturbance. My God. Well, in talking to him, I mean, he realizes that, you know, eventually somebody's going to do that kind of pairing, and it's not that there's anything I'm not against that. But the problem is, is that when you're breeding an animal, like, you know, I mean, you have to really selectively breed that for quite a while. I mean, to get, I mean, yeah, I guess, to me, I think my personal opinion would be to do some kind of cross, you know, to that. Like, I think if you're going to do, like, you know, I guess, like, you know, the coolest brattle jags that I have seen have been screams lined. But that has many diamonds in the screen. Exactly. What's the brattle? What's the diamond? Like, what does each bring to the table? I mean, it's kind of like, with all that, and I honestly got to think that cream jags are going to get better when they're not mixed with more brattle when they're mixed with other things like diamond jumbles. So, I mean, it's just one of those things. Well, there was that, there was that pairing that I want to say it was Deb King in Australia that had this inland diamond. Oh, man. I don't know if it had brattle. I don't think it had, I don't think it had it in it. I think it had maybe coastal in it. It was like coastal inland. And I have jungle in it too, and diamond only because it was a jag sib, you know, type of thing. So it was like this crazy looking. Oh, man, that was cool. That made me really rethink the whole. Oh, man. Inlet. Can we just make a brief, can we just make a breeding project? We're going to call it the trash can. So, what we'll do is we'll try to make every mo- no, it's just every Morelia in one animal, like keep going and adding it like we just keep packing it on there. So, basically, we get there. And the last breeding we do is this horrible mixture of things to a rough scale. And that'll be it. We'll just call it a hundred years old, the trash can. So, I have everything in there. Oh, man. Oh, so, anyway, I went off topic. We kind of went astray there for a second, but I'm curious what is your number one pairing that you're hoping so that this one takes, you know, beyond anything else. Can I have two answers? I guess you can. Can I have a Morelia and a non-Merelia answer? Yeah, sure. Michael, Merelia is super caramel, two examples. Because this is, okay. You're saying soup caramel to an exam. Okay. So, you're going to make basically caramel pet exanix. Yes. Okay. Because the super caramel that I'm using was one of the first, was probably the first super caramel I ever produced. She scores to hide a lot of her. And then it'll put me on track for caramel exanix, because that's what I'm calling them because eventually we will get hyposed. And we're all going to be a lot confused when we have ghosts and ghosts. So, yeah. We won't get into that, but I would really like to see that pair just because I think it would be, they'd be very pretty animals, and that's the one I really want. I don't know why, but that's the one I really want. And then, with the non-Merelia, and that would be the maclox pythons. Maclox. Really? Maclox. Yeah, I've been waiting and raising these things up. I'm real hard, and then my heart blew up in my chest last year when my female died from the complications of having her slug clutch, because that was horrible, dude. I took the time, I raised these animals up, and I raised her up, and she was a hard, evil creature, which I had to constantly deal with. She lays an entire clutch of 20-something clugs, which she laid them three weeks after we moved in here. So, I want to say that she had the complications because of the move, so that made me feel horrible. And then, she kind of bounced back about a month or two later, she ended up dying, because she never really bounced back the right way, and she kind of bounced up and then bounced way down. So, I thought the entire project was done. Shot, I almost sold the mail and everything. When Eric Tolar talked to me, and he had a female that his mail didn't want anything to do with, so now she's over here, and has been for almost a year now. She's acclimated. They're together. They're not doing anything, but they haven't killed each other. So, step in the right direction. So, if I could get Baby Max, I think I'd be so happy to be ridiculous. So, that's cool. Hopefully. Yeah. Hopefully. Are you basically approaching breeding them the same way that you would breed carpet pythons? Yeah, I did before, and I had locks, and then the slugs. So, you know, if I do it again and I get nothing but slugs, then I'm going to start trying to figure out what I'm doing. That's wrong, but... What do you think caused the slugs? Do you have any dog moves? I think the moves. Yeah. We had one Bible egg and a bunch of slugs. I think the move, I think, stressing around from all that stuff. So, I mean, I don't know if it was a slug because they were infernal, or if you just ditch them all because of her body was going through crazy amounts of stress with the whole move. I don't know. Also, they were together and then separated and together because of all the moving stuff, so I don't know if I missed a window. So, there could have been a lot of different things, but from what I've heard and talking to a lot of other people, they don't really do anything different for our breeding life access than we do for carpet python. So... Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I was just curious. I would like to see them go. Yeah, I would like to see them go. And then, of course, the olive python. But I didn't even put them together because I'm too chicken shit. The birds are going to kill each other. Oh. They'll probably be going together in a week. You know, I'll be panicking the entire time. Right. Yes. If I was looking at... Yes. Your parents. Crosses, for me. One that I'm super excited about is I have a caramel jag head granite going to a caramel granite. Okay. I put the two together. I didn't see any action with them, but that's the one that... Yeah, I'm kind of, you know, caramel granite jags. I don't know, just something about those that kind of... I think I really... Would they be super? Did you see you had a caramel and a caramel or no? Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah, I could possibly produce a super caramel granite jag. But... Man. Yeah. That should be... Pretty much. Pretty much. You know, and I mean, as far as... I have two coastal pairings that are close near and dear to me. I have one, basically an M Pen pair, probably to me. I don't know, to me. I think they're just... For that 2009 clutch that he produced, I think that their hands down, probably the prettiest animals from the group. Yeah. Saying that, I don't know what he held back. But I put them together and, man, they were locked up, like, ready to go. You know? No messing around. So, this female, I mean, I weighed her. We were talking before the show. I weighed her. She was... She's the biggest girl I have. She is at... Let me look it up real quick. 2,210 grams. Which, the most people, they probably say, "Oh, that's not that big." That's the biggest girl I have. I can have breeding this year. I mean, to me, she's a pretty big girl. But... I don't know. I'm hoping to produce some nice striped coastal. I love the lavender hues on those guys. I think that they actually come from the Lloyd Lemke line of coastal. This is basically what they come from. But... I mean, if you're looking for top-notch coastal, they're probably the pinnacle. The one girl that I got back that was... I produced her a few years ago. She was from my Lemke male to... You remember my big girl, Sophie. Right. She's breeding with one of my caramel's this year. So, I'm going to see what the hell that does to everything. So, that I think is cool. But you, my friend, didn't tell me. And I went through your shit and I found it. V is breeding this year. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So... Yeah. So... V is breeding this year. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So... V is breeding this year. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So... V is breeding this year. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So... Yeah. So... V is breeding this year. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She's a favorite coastal. She doesn't look like a coastal at all. Most people will probably think. She's a cross. But she was produced by Jason Bell and her name's Aiko. Right. Because when I bought her, I thought she was a male. Oh, yeah. I remember this one. Turned out to be a female. Right. No problem. So... She has like this fish netty... I don't know how to explain it. It almost reminds me of like a gamma jack. The thing of it is that that fish netty look is like in the saddles and it's super clean. It's highlighted by black. Her all her like the base color is super clean. And she has like this bone white with these slight red hints in the saddles that really just give her this really unique look. I don't know. She's an awesome snake. Jason produced her from what he called a tiger jag sib to a tiger jag sib. Basically how I got her was in 2008 when I bought my first carpet python from Jason. I bought an animal from that pairing. And I was so happy with how that one turned out that I decided I asked him if he was doing that pairing again. And he said, yeah, he was. He repeated it in 2009. And I grabbed three animals from him that year, which I have a male and two females. And they all have like really looks. I mean me and Jason have talked to them about them at shows. And we've talked about how some of them have this bone white look to them and other ones have like, you know, the red, which he believes comes from Madam Blueberry. So if you trace that lineage back, then they have Madam Blueberry in it. So anyway, we were sitting there and we're talking and I was talking to him at this past family about he had some of those crazy reds that almost look albino on his table. And he had that one coastal that Julie snatched up that was just an awesome looking animal. And you know, nothing, no morph, no nothing. Just a beautiful coastal. Beautiful animal. Yeah. And I started talking to him and I had mentioned that, you know, about that and what he thought of that pairing. And he said that, you know, he believed that if I did that, I would probably see the same type of animals as he produced with, you know, that albino looking red stuff that he has going on. So, you know, that's ultimately what the hope is. Yeah. Well, we'll see. Well, being that when I went and I picked V up for you, Bailin was one of the guys who almost beat me over the head and took him. So, yeah, and I really like that pair. And it is going to be very, very horribly tempting to snatch up a baby from that pair if you let any go. But I, sir, shall wait. I will find my time. I will be good because I will wait for her. Because it's him and her that one pair I've been waiting for you to do for freaking years. Yeah, she'll be 2017 for sure. Oh, God. Yeah. She's a beautiful red tiger, like really red and elder colors. You know, I got my balls busted all the time about trading Jekita and Zach, you know, because it's a beautiful beak and, you know, it's like, you know, 90% yellow. But, you know what? I don't have any regrets, man. Not at all. Because that is just a match made in heaven, you know, those two pairings. I mean, that's just selective breeding and it's finest to me. I don't know. Really dig it. Speaking of costals, Rob sent me a question and he wanted me to ask you. He was curious on the back story of the ornate costal that you have. I guess he's cruising around your site and he was looking at the lineage page. It's the dad of Trinity. Dad of Trinity. Oh, Trinity's dad. I don't have it. That was what she was labeled as. Oh, her dad was labeled with Ted Thompson. Ted Thompson produced Trinity. And I got Trinity when she was a little gray, ugly, actually. She should have never been sold to me. She was so damn tiny. And I got it for like 70 bucks. And her parents were a tiger from Ian and they called it an ornate costal. Which just looks like this very reduced patterned costal again from Ian at Outback Reptile. So it leaves you to stop there because trying to get stuff out of there is no idea. But Ted was producing tigers at that time. So he had a tiger that he bred with this ornate and he got a bunch of tigers. And he got what he called as a time board lesser tigers. Basically he put a spin on costals trying to get people to buy them. And it worked because I bought them. And I bought like three of them. I had two boys and a girl I had. And this was back in college. Those were the guys that I kept under my bed. So the two boys I eventually raised up that were holding off. I did breed the one male. He was the sire of my first two ever clutches. But I bred him to like just costals and a costal jungle. So it was like the babies looked like carpet. So it's like whatever. Trinity I raised her up. And as I was raising her up, that's when I started talking with Bailey. And I started buying everything left and right from him because there was lineage. There was pictures of parents. There were babies. And then I got talent. And talent troughs eternity is what made Echo. And Trinity, every single baby that she produces, she produces a ton of striping. A ton of striping. She didn't have a single goddamn stripe on her bottom. But every baby she produces, every jag, she produces perfectly bald back. Her tiger jags are absolutely gorgeous. So it's like everything I chucked, every tiger she produces, I bred a tiger to her. Everything came out with stripes. So she has been the best $70 investment I've ever freaking made in my social project. So it's like she's incredible and she's a 3234 egg layer every year. So wow. Yeah. And of course now that Echo's breeding is even freaking worse now because it's like, it's just so much. I actually ended up keeping one of Echo's sons this year and his daughter. Because I bred him to that red tiger I got from you. He cleaned up the back. But that red tiger had some speckling to the back. The baby's got nothing. The red color and the girl pops around her head. It just explodes out of this girl. And I'm like, oh, she was the run. She was the tiny one. She was the one who didn't really want to eat. And now she's tearing up food and she's gaining ground on her sibling. It's like, all right, I got to keep these two back. They're mine now for get all you people. So I've had other people who saw these animals when I first had them up for sale. Contact me. So like, do you have that red tiger? I'm like, nope, he's mine. No, you can't buy him, he's mine. But it just kind of goes back to way back in the day. They threw these labels and these names on all these different animals and coastals and things like that. And I understand it was at a certain point they were trying to prove out or they didn't have the morphs to fall back on. And some people were trying to prove out morphs. But a lot of the other times is that people were just slapping names on things to get people to buy them. And it worked. I mean, like, there were busy patterns jags out there. Rather than just calling it a jag with a lot of pattern, because no one wants a jag with a lot of pattern, they called them ornate jagwars, which Talon's mom was labeled as an ornate jag war for a while. But it's a damn jag. So people threw those like lesser tiger again. It's a damn coastal. It's not a tiger. We saw that earlier with somebody had posted up my hypo-melanistic jag and you're like, "Huh?" Somebody, and we're not even going to talk about the names, so you don't want to bear it. Somebody had posted up somewhere that they have a hypo-melanistic jagwar from Madam Bluebird. And I sent you the thing, the picture and the link, because I thought it was funny, because way back when that was how people talked about their shit. Like, Talon is a red hypo-jagwar. There is nothing frickin' red, and there's nothing frickin' hypo about his ass. All right, I'm looking at him. He's a goddamn jagwars. So it's like, he's just not a yellow one. And that's the way it goes, is that you had to put any of it, and I'm not saying that Jason Bailin, you know, misled me or anything like that, because Jason Bailin sold him for what he was at the time. Everybody was at the time, it was a red hypo-jag. That's it. But you can pair that thing to like the hypos and the reds we see now. It's not even frickin' close. No. Yeah, and there's nothing. The Red Sox community tax names and words, and it's like, it's almost like you've seen the Princess Bride, right? Right? Yeah. You're using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. It's like, you know, it doesn't mean what you, that's not how it works. So, it's just kind of one of those things where it's the whole ornate thing on Trinity's lineages. I'm just using the same wording that they used, so that anybody you might know what I'm talking about can come and take a look at it. Right. It's... Yeah. It's just cool. Yeah. He said it had an almahera look to it, so he's just curious. You're right. He actually, he actually called it. He said it was Ted Thompson. He thought, you know, like... Yeah. Well, he said it. I mean, Rob has found out my secret. Oh, my cozels actually have almahera blood in them. I just didn't tell anybody. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, let's see. You know, we talked about my coastal bearings. You know, I, you know, I think this is something else that people, I'm curious of, you know, I guess people don't talk about this kind of stuff. I don't talk about this kind of stuff, but I've had this, uh, exanic girl, Shimmer, who is now... God, this is the third year. I'm going to try breeding her and... Are you going to do the double head snows? Yeah. Yeah. Um... So, she's going again with, uh, my albino, Jack, dull. Um, hopefully... I think dull... Dull has bred everything in sight, correct? Oh, yeah. He'll breed a spaghetti noodle, if he could. So it's not dull. Dull is the problem. No. No. But what I've noticed is, even with, I mean, again, this is like, um, I guess maybe this is just me learning from breeding as I go, and people, I don't know if this is something you can learn or just as you pick up as you go along. You know, there's certain pairings where I could put, you know, dull into the mix and create, for instance, like citrus tigers, I'm doing two clutches of them this year. Uh, for a couple of reasons. One, I want to have some. Are we doing citrus tiger head albino? Yes. Two of them. Two clutches. Uh, wait, are we going to self-help? Purposely. I have some to self. So here's my thinking, right? So the animals that I've held back come from two specific animals. One is Dex, who is an albino cross that I got from Paul Harris, and this animal, anything he breeds, turns out spectacular, right? Yeah. In 2014, I bred, um, dull to my caramel head albino girl, uh, cinder, and I made jack, caramel jags head albino caramel head albino. Right. And they were nice, you know, nothing, you know, nothing, nothing was too crazy, nothing was, uh, you know, it was what it was at that point. You're getting a caramel jag head albino, and you're getting a caramel head albino, and, you know, it is what it is. So I decided that the past year that I was going to take the jag. Definitely my girl. Oh, you have a 2014 or 2015? Like 14. Okay. So you have the one from dull. Uh, so, so, um, I decided to put Dex to that girl. And see what happened. So this is the same year that he produced the citrus tiger head albinos and the caramel albinos. Well, I still have a good deal of caramel and albinos, and, um, there's only two people that bought animals from that clutch. But I'll tell you what, man, it's on a whole nother level. And now it seems to tell me that that albino, Dex, he has some, like, you know, when you look at him, he looks like a white snake. I mean, he does some white snake. It doesn't look like anything special as far as albino goes. He doesn't have like that, you know, that crazy contrast that like Darwin's do. It's just kind of like, yeah, it's kind of gone. Like the pattern is kind of gone. Um, right. But he throws amazing offspring. So I decided to put him, now, I have the citrus tiger head albino female, and then I have the other citrus tiger, who this is the one girl, you know, is the one girl that's just her colors. I mean, she's a 2009 animal, and she's still vibrant. Yellow, orange, and her contrast is there, and she's, that her striping is not the best, but I don't care, because guess what, the whole clutch is striped. You know, and it worked out well. He didn't, you know, that it's just like you were saying earlier, he doesn't have any striping on him at all that I can tell, you know. Um, I still would like to find out what, you know, I have to contact Paul at some point and try to find out like what I believe that he's a jungle. He has jungle in him. So, that leads me to believe that there's probably striping back in his lineage. So, he's an albino cross with jungle, you know, you know, jungles are always like those really nice, especially when you're mixing it in with, you know, jags and stuff. So, anyway, I'm doing these two clutches because of two things. One, I want to see if the citrus tiger head albinos that I produced in 2014 are from the really nice look to them come from decks. The male or is it from the female or is it a mix of both. So, when I breed him to another, you know, I mean, it's a nice citrus tiger, but it's not as nice as the other girl. Now, this other one has better striping. So, you know, we'll see. I'm sure you see what happens to that. And if you want to buy a pair, hopefully I'll be able to give you, you know, somewhat unrelated, you know, and that's for me to, you know, to have someone. You just want me over. You know, so, so you're not bringing sibling to sibling. Well, one of the, one of the pairings I'm doing this year is I took my HCQ tiger pixie and she was produced by Mo at Mojo Reptiles. They bred a tiger from Ted Thompson. Right. And I actually got her from Howard, remember I traded him the banana and all that of the crap. That was hard. The banana jack does exist. Oh, my God. But she produced a ton of, she produced tigers the last few years, so I'm breeding her to the, to an exam. So I can make tigers head exam. Because over the past, like she produced all my caramel jags this year, which the contrast in the caramel jags has been killer, especially the one, the caramel tiger jags. Okay. And there's this one caramel that has more icon colors to him than caramel colors, so I don't know what the hell I'm going to do with him yet. But anyway, you had some really nice stripeing in there. Right. So I'm kind of hoping to just get a few tigers that are head examics because I want examic tigers. So, but I'm hoping that the icon color can kind of bring the silvery blue out and kind of make it pop a little bit more. Eventually, I'm not saying that the heads are going to look like that. So I mean, we're not going to see anything out of there. We're just trying to get the stripes first. Second will be the color, but that one I'm excited about because she's a, I love her. She's gorgeous. So that's cool. Yeah, she's a nice snake for sure. Very, very citrus tiger esque, which I believe she is from that icon. Oh, yes, it has to be. I mean, and that was, remember how I told you that one day I was going to like beat you on the head and take sach? Yes. That would be going with her. Yeah. That's where he would go. So it's like eventually one day, or if you start producing fricking citrus tigers, that'll happen. And I'll figure that out eventually, because I do love fricking. I do love the high con tiger kind of look. Yeah. You know, we're talking about tigers, and I have this bale and tiger, and it's my pairing number 10. And if you look, if you look at my website, I specifically left the sire off. There's a couple of different directions that I was thinking of going. My first one was to do a jag head axanic. The problem with a jag head axanic thing is that I don't like producing possible heads. Yeah, me either. I think there's a lot of confusion when it comes to possible heads. I heard this on another show, and basically they were talking about possible heads and how confusing it can be. Okay, so in a way, there really is no such thing as possible heads. Either is head, or it's not head. Exactly. It either is, or it's not. So when people say it's a 66% post-head, they're not saying that if you breed it, the number of head animals or whatever changes. If you have a 66% chance of that thing, that animal being a heterozygous head for the morph you want, if it's a head, it's still 100% a head. That's it. It's right there. If it turns out to be a head, it's a head. There's no percentage difference at all. You have a 66% chance of it being a head. That's what you're buying, and I hate dealing with question marks like that. So if I breed a jag head-exanic, which I have a male, and I breed it to her, which is tiger, you possibly could have 50% possible head-tiger jags head-exanic. You could have tigers head-exanic, and you could have just regular coals that are 50% head-exanic. When you take a head-exanic of anything, it could be albino-exanic, and our example will use exanic. If you took a jag head-exanic and bred to a head-exanic, and you have normal looking offspring, and you have jags, and then you have what they would be a 66%. Because now you have the head on both sides, you've now upped the percentage that it could be, you know, there's a higher chance of that egg, and it's per egg. It's not like the odds God say, "Okay, these four eggs here, one of them's going to be head-exanic, and one of them." It doesn't work like that. So, I don't know. I mean, the good thing is, when it comes to the exanic, is that, you know, the idea that there's a possibility that you can see these visual markers, so to speak, with the heads. That could be true, that could not be true. Now, I'd hate to produce a clutch, and then raise up offspring from that clutch, and then try to breed it, and then just, you know, not produce what I wanted to produce, which has led me more and more to deal with just the visuals, so I produce 100% heads. So, that was my first thing. And, I mean, worst case scenario is you produce, you know, tigers and tiger jags, which, you know, again, isn't all that bad. That's not a bad thing. Yeah, and it would be pure coastal, you know, and if it turned out that, you know, you can see these ones that are different in the clutch, well, then you're that much ahead on the project, so to speak. I don't think that I wouldn't hide it from people that they're, you know, was bred exanic, but I wouldn't try to sell them as a selling ploy, so to speak, you know what I mean? Like, to me, it's just like, hey, these are tiger jags. Oh, yeah, by the way, they're, they could be had a good, you know, that's just the way it rules, but it's like, what I would hate is if somebody were to put, you know, if I were to tack the price up. I would really hate if somebody took the time, raised them up, because now somebody else's projects are being structured around this animal being a posset. And there's some people who take possets, they don't listen. And it's like, all right, it's a possible head. It could be had. And the next thing you know, they're online going, look at my head, it's like, stop it. No, it's a possible head. Don't run around telling people that, or they don't treat it like that. And they greet it. And either they lose sight of the fact that it's still a possible, or they, nothing comes out of it, and automatically they assume it's, you know, and then I, I guess that I would just feel bad to watch somebody structure their entire projects around this thing. If it was a head, and then it turns out to not be. Yeah. I mean, that would, that would suck. So, so that would be male number one, which I think you would probably lean towards. Maybe. Male number two was to breed her with an ivory. Did you hear that? What is she again? She's a ballon tiger. Ballon tiger. To an ivory. To an ivory. Now, now here's my thought. Now listen, listen to me. The idea. Now, now, now this is where I'm going to, you know, say that you're probably looking for me. Where you're a little crazy. Because you're willing to stretch it for the jack. But here's Owen's line in the sand that he won't cross. He's like tiger. No way. Oh, no, no. I'm already willing to stretch it with the, with the, uh, um, bitches, tigers head albino. Because first of all, we don't know if there's jungle in there or not. One, two, you just told me that both albino males have been in the mix. You're like, they could be jungle albino. So that hurt me, by the way. Oh, yeah. It's like, so we're sitting here and it's like, I, will I stretch it just to get an albino jet, albino tiger? Probably. I'd probably stretch it. Because at that point, to get an albino tiger, unless the albino coastal show up, which breathes the love of God, gets them here. Um, you're looking at mixes anyway to get the albino to get the coastal morphs into the albino. Yeah. Yeah. I'm pulling you across it. Right. So, I'm going to accept that. Now, here's my thought. Now, I was thinking about this the other day. And my thought was, I remember me and you talking about, um, Benjamin. And when we first look in that reptiles magazine, about seeing this killer white killer, you know, like, like, oh, shit, that thing is awesome. Yeah. I need to have an animal like that. You haven't even so much. You have even like that animal so much that you're willing to cross the line. You're crossing the picket line and you're saying, you know what? I've read JAG. If it's going to look like that, I'm in. I do it. It's interesting. I bit so hard on that. Aurora. Um, the animal I have tattooed on my body, my first high purchase in all carpet type on dome was a Benjamin Madame blueberry JAG. Right. So, and, you know, $1,300 for a starving college student. I'm pretty sure I ate nothing but cans of tuna for weeks because I burned through all my fucking money for her. I had to drive down to Philly to get her and I'm sitting there with this $1,300 like carpet python in a tub under my bed. What's wrong with me? Anyway, but we don't have time for this anyway. So, and she was like the first animal to produce. I have one of her daughters, which is going this year, which I'm bringing to a grad. We won't get into that. Um, so, I said we won't get into it. Okay. It's one of the things where it's like, you bit so hard, and I've had several people who, um, near the tail end of one ruler he was in it, bought animals that have been traced back to Benjamin because the only pictures you ever saw at Benjamin were the ones where he was really young and he looked bone-like. I've seen pictures of him and he got older and so is Bailin and so is a few other people. I used to have a picture of him, but I lost that computer. Um, and now you can barely find him, but he, he yellowed out. He turned yellow as he got older like any other good coastal jag will. Right. So, and that's what everybody was freaking out about. So, I've seen people like who are on the cusp of buying shit, turn around and go scream into a tree to buy a bunch of animals from him. I mean, I did it. Howard did it. Bailin said he lost a ton of customers to Will over freaking Benjamin and what's really funny is when I bought Aurora, I was actually talking to Ben and Justin and I don't ever talk about this because I'm worried they're going to remember. Um, I was actually talking to Ben and Justin and I was about to buy a jag and then I went and I bought one from Will Larry and told them not to worry about it. So, I'm really kind of hoping they never remember that. So, um, they'll never speak to me again. Well, they know now. Goddammit. I'm going to email later, but it's like, um, but it was funny because everybody bit so hard on that and you and I were talking and I had the jag and you had the ivory and it's like, you know what, if we could produce jags that could look like that and then maybe even keep somewhat of that whitish color into their adulthood, that would be awesome. So, that's why we're trying this. Right. So, now what you're telling me is Owen, what if I did it with a tiger? It's what you're trying to get at, right? Correct. Because just hear me out. Just hear me out. Think about. Think about. Now, I'm going to do this with a jungle too, right? So, it'll be pure jungle because I have some jungles and ideas. You do. But, there's something about a coastal stripe that is different jungle stripes. Yeah. Because there's more stripes. You know, there's more, you know, like a jungle team. You got two colors. You got black and you got yellow. That's it. You know, you got some, you know, that's it. Coastal, you're working with a little more. So, my thought is that if you could get a perfectly striped white carpet python, tell me that, well, I mean, the base color would be, if I could replicate mayor's colors onto a striped tiger, that thing would be sick. I'm telling you, man, it would be crazy. It's not fair. You're using my love of tigers against you right now. That's not fair. I know. I love, I love tigers too. Game on you, sure. That is shame. That is, you know, I already told you this, that I want to have one of those bucket shot ones, where it's like I got a classic tiger and a bino tiger, an exanic tiger. Yes. A red tiger. Yeah. Once them all in one thing and now you're like, I can add a white tiger in there. He's like, no. So it's like. Then the, yeah. No, wait, wait, wait, wait. We're here and now you're about to step further and this is where you lose me. So continue. Yes. So, I'm really leaning strongly towards that, you know, towards that. It would be cool, but my concern would be, is that how long, would you be able to pull off the color in the first gen? And I don't think so. I don't know, man. I don't know. It's pretty. It's pretty awesome. Let me, let me, let me refresh. The entire clutch is not going to be the color you want. Already automatic giving. No. What? No. Now here, here's the kicker. Are you going to get the color and the stripe on the same freaking animal? I don't know. I mean, I would, man. You might get these bones. You might get these bone wide animals that have crappy stripes and you might have this really nicely striped animal that has like an off white kind of yellowish tint to it. It's very possible. You know, I mean, I don't think that I'll be as lucky as I did with the albino. If you are, I will, if you are, I swear to God, I'm going to go outside and grab a bunch of leaves and like eat them. Okay. That's not fair. I don't, I don't think that I would see that lucky. However, it is worth a shot. Now, my thinking is, as far as the color goes, though, if you look at my Balen tiger, she has that classic khaki type of look where she's almost, she's very like, pale is what I'll use as a color. She's very pale. Okay. I wouldn't say she's like, she's in nowhere near white, you know. Not like you're like a cream color, but she's somewhere in between, you know, like that khaki tiger jag look. The classic, classic tiger where it's like a khaki kind of, you know, bonish kind of color. Yeah. Yeah. And we've seen that on a few tigers, especially the older Jen. Right. And she's an original line tiger. She's, she's the original, you know, Balen line tiger. She comes from that, from that line. So she's not crossed with, you know, like reds or anything like that. She's just straight, you know, tiger. So I think, I think you're not going to get it the first year. But I think if you were to take the two best looking, the best looking male and the best looking female out of this, that I clutch, raise them up, breed them together. I think you'll get it done. Yeah. Cause if you look for color and striping out of the two holdbacks, that would be the ones that would be producing. And if you give me the other two best female and male, then I'll do it too. There you go. I've created a monster. That's horrible. The other, the other thing that I wanted to put it to, and eventually I will do this pairing, but I, I don't know. And this is a, this is a long time pairing. And I know people are probably going to say nuts and maybe it's been done and, and people keep it hush hush. I forgot super caramel tigers as well as ghost tigers in my bucket of tigers. I'm sorry. Yes. Yes. So I'm very curious to find out, and I can't believe that nobody's done this, is a granite tiger. I would imagine that it would be probably something similar to what you see with the zebra in the tiger, and my feeling, my gut tells me is like zebra and granite are kind of like in the same, you know, neighborhood, so to speak, I think genetically they would probably, and this could all be total bullshit, by the way, just my thoughts, that, that it would probably yield similar results, however, if you don't try something like that, how do you know, well, my, my, my thinking is now when you get the tiger to the zebra jag, you didn't really get too much organization in the patterns of the zebra's, but no, the zebra, the zebra tiger jag, you kind of got a little bit of some baldness in the back area, I think, or some organization on some of them, which, but nothing too extreme. Right. The problem, I think the problem with that clutch though, is that that female in particular really wasn't that well-striped, which the fact difference is this animal is pretty much perfectly striped. But then take that to the next step, now you have these zebra jag that had tiger blood in them, if I take that zebra jag and cross it back to tiger, will that be when we see the organization? So, case of what we have the granite, a granite to a tiger, you're going to get a bunch of tigers that granite, now breeding the tigers together, two tigers that granite to each other. You got a double dose of tiger in there, and then you got a double dose of granite. Are you going to see a bunch of tigers, and then a bunch of granites, and not to be able to tell, like, one like, is that, is that it? Exactly. Like, are you going to be like, I think this is a tiger granite, what makes you good? I don't know. It looks like everything else. Yeah. It looks like all the other granite. So, it's like, at that point, is it like, well fail, it's like, then we're done. Or are you going to get something, because when you breed jag to both zebra and granite, you have a severe reduction in the busy pattern of both those animals. So, will that happen with tiger, is what you're trying to get at, right? Right. My money, unfortunately, is on nap. I probably would. I would probably agree, and I think that's probably why everybody has shied away from that, from that pairing, because they think that the results are not going to be, are going to be worth it. Yeah. But here is where, I know Chris Salemi will agree with me on this. Here's where my money is on this type of animal, is that, go on. When you look at a zebra head granite, take everything else off the table, just a zebra head granite, and then granite zebra's. But now, we're just talking, so you just infuse that eeron jaya blood into that jungle. And those animals are freaking cool looking, you know? It's like a crazy dark, I don't know, it reminded me of when I had my female as a baby. You reminded me of what a baby alligator looks like. That same type of pattern, and that same type of look, color-wise, that's what it reminded me of. I think that if you could somehow just get those, that kind of color, and just infuse striping into it, I think that would be cool. I don't know if that's possible, but who carried that color, who carried that kind of color? I mean, that black, kind of baby alligator kind of look, was that a result of the zebra gene, or the jungle portion of it, or was that a part, was that the iron jaya, or was that then working together? And will you never get anywhere near that with the coastal blood? Well, it's very possible that if you go diamond, well, diamonds are, you know. They're, you know, that's where we don't cross the line. Sorry. Yeah, I got it. I got it. So, I'm just saying that you're exactly correct. You're not going to know until you try, so you said you should try. So, who the hell knows? You might breed a tiger head granite to a tiger head granite, and all of a sudden you get an animal that has, it looks like one of those, you know, re-kick morphs, or like the patterns going down the back, but then it's like, bald on the sides. I mean, bald, you know, you might do that, and what the hell do we do? Well, yeah. I mean, the thing of it is, is that if you look at a super zebra granite, right, super zebra granite, um, would you have ever thought that that's what that animal was going to look like? I wouldn't have known. No, I have a completely yellow head, and then the weird speckling down the back. Not hell, no. I thought it would have just been a patternless snake, but it would have looked brown and you know what I mean? That's what I would have thought it would look like. Um, you never freaking know, and while we haven't even seen, have you seen an adult version of those in a while? I don't know, Paul must have one or two, but I really haven't seen too many people recreate that thing. So, you're like, yes, I guess I guess more. I'm like, so it's like, um, yeah, the super zebra stuff is kind of, uh, I don't know. That's kind of difficult when you get the morphs cross into it. But I'll tell you that the, um, unfortunately the zebra, the super zebra, super caramel possible, I don't think it had jagged in it because it wasn't loopy. The problem is that with, you can't really tell when those babies are young, like I've seen some jags that are normal up until, you know, you try to breed them and then all of a sudden it will fall out. It was the damn mind, yeah. It's all jagged, and then, you know, it's, you know, I guess it's whether or not you're willing to accept that or not, you know, that's a line that you have to decide for yourself. But, um, I don't know, I, you know, I don't know if it was just bad luck with that, which I'm assuming it maybe is because I know that people have produced super caramel, super zebra's, and I know people have produced super zebra jags and I know, you know, but this one in particular, when it was born, it had that what I believe was an enlarged heart. I struggled with whether or not I should call it or not. I was convinced not to call it, you know, it would survive. It went for about three weeks and it didn't eat, which is no, that doesn't really phase me at all, you know, and then I offered it food and it took, and I was like, well, maybe, yeah, maybe this is a good thing, you know, maybe, maybe it will survive. So, I kind of, uh, I kind of just kept trying it in eight, three times, and then I came in and then it passed. I don't know what had happened, but it just took a meal and then that night it, it, it died. So, yeah, I mean, you know, that's, I guess like a lot of people don't talk about the bad side of breeding or the, you know, the deaths and the, the, the animals with no eyes and all that kind of crazy shit that happened. No, no, I had woman, it had, it had no top head, and it was just like chilling, I'm like, whoa. Yeah. Sometimes you get the bad stuff, you know, I have the, I have the two headed one floating in a jar upstairs at the quarantine room because I had just two headed carpet boys on it was cool. Yeah. So, you're exactly correct. People don't talk about the weird stuff, but you know, sometimes you get, you get bad luck. Sometimes you get the malformed, the weird ones. Sometimes you get the one baby that hatches out and never, ever, ever wants to eat and eventually dies. Sometimes you get the one that hatches out of its egg, hatches into its neighbor's egg and then drowns, they can't find its way out. Yeah. Yeah. That was, yeah. And he was too stupid to live, apparently. So. You had a baby crawl out of its egg and into another egg and then it drowned in the other egg. Yes. You kept it. Did the other baby die? No, the other baby came out. So, um, the baby was chased out by his brother. So this baby tips. So I cut the little window. There it is. It pokes his head out and like cuts the membrane and takes his first breath. It was the brightest red caramel I had ever freaking seen. So I'm like, "Ooh, hello." He goes back in the egg and then the reason I found out what happened to him is because I tried to figure out where the hell he went. He went back in the egg, he used, I guess, because I cut him with scissors, I pipped for him. So I guess he still had the egg tooth, but he slices the egg in the side and crawls into an egg that was at the center of the clutch pile and got lost and the other baby like went out through the slit that it had made and left. So he's stuck in that egg and he's, I guess, couldn't find his way out and just drowned in the yolk. So, yeah. Um, well, when I didn't see that super red caramel out, I'm like, "Well, where the hell did he go?" Check his egg, saw the slit, used my finger, poked it in and found him in the other egg dead. And I'm like, "Well, all right then." So he was just far too pretty and stupid to live. So... Sometimes it happens. Yeah. Yeah, I guess when you're dealing with, you know, I guess you got to understand when you're dealing with, you know, live animals and just that thing, you know, livestock means dead stock, you know, and you're going to have animals have weird, you know, just drop dead and, you know, it's just like people, man. I mean, people just... What did you die? What was it? Eugene Beset said to us, he's like, "I've left a trail of Kondra bodies longer than anybody ever imagined behind me." I love that guy. He goes, "You guys have any idea how many of these things I've killed in the school, what?" Like, you know, you only expect to hear that out of one of the top breeders of the species. But you also got to think about it is that if you're in this long haul and you have as many animals as he had, you must have had a few bumps in the road, especially the species that you're trying to get established, they're a lord. So yeah, yeah. You got to understand that, you know, with the life and with all the clutches, some obvious problems, obvious death, rather random stuff, I mean, there's some things you can prevent by your husbandry and taking care of your animals correctly. And then there are other things that you can never predict, never prepare, and never have anything to do with. Sometimes animals will just drop dead on you. Sometimes they'll do stupid things like crawling into their brother's egg to die. Just the way it goes. So yeah, I mean, I don't know if you have, I don't really have that many pairings going at that, you know, I mean, on large scale, 13 pairings, hopefully, 24, 24, okay. And where can people see said pairing? So you're going to put it on your Facebook page. It's already up on the pairing. I only, I know, the pairings are up on the road reptile species page. I will put a full breakdown up on roadgripdiles.com. I'm trying to figure out the best way to do it, because I kind of want to duplicate what you've got going on, but I'm lazy. So I don't know if I'm going to be able to see that. Yeah, that's a lot of work. I know. I'll probably try to do something like that so that people can keep track of each individual clutch and pairing, because I've already observed blocks and a few pairings. So like the, my caramel female to my caramel jag male, my red tiger, jag boy to my red tiger female. We've already seen lots of both those animals. But then, of course, like, I'm pretty sure the tenon bars might have been locked, but I can't get close because the male keeps tweaking at every time I can mirror them. So I don't know yet. And there's a few other things like the Dominican Red Mountain Boas, because I'm a glutton for punishment. And you know, there's, you know, the, all the animals we have all known and a few other things. So, right, like, did I tell you that I took my, my zebra jag, the boy I got from you is breeding to a diamond jungle female this year. That's cool. That'll make some nice babies. Yeah. Yeah, Phil won me over with his diamond jungle zebra jag. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the, the, the trick with the morphs, if you're doing crosses, is to add that diamond blood in there. Yeah. And I think it takes, it takes it up a notch. Definitely can, you know, see a difference between just the straight zebra jag as opposed to a diamond zebra jag. You know. I would agree. Yeah. So. I don't know. It should be, it should be a cool season, I think. I'm pretty excited to see, see what catches out for us and, you know, everybody else. You know, I, I'm excited about the selective breeding potential for things as well as, you know, of course, the morph saying that's kind of how I live. I kind of live in both worlds, you know, I really dig the, the, just the, the straight forms of, of carpet pythons and, um, it's weird though, that, that, that doesn't train. And I also like the, you know, that, that crazy crosses and are they hybrids or they, you know, who knows whatever you want to call it. But, um, yeah, it's weird how that doesn't translate to other reptiles for me. Like, I have no, to, I, when it comes, like, if you look at chondros, right, I, I personally, I prefer the localities, you know, um, which is weird because, you know, I don't know. Most people would go after the, uh, the crosses. Blue ones. Yeah. Yeah. Blue and melanistic. Yeah. High yellows and beautiful animals and, you know, I'm not saying that I won't have them in particular, but with space being limited, I just see, uh, you know, nothing to me is better than a green snake with a white stripe. You know, that's to me is, you know, don't know until you're, I mean, dot helper culture when you move and you get like a full basement. I mean, I don't know what the whole world gonna do. Uh, yeah. Well, I think with me personally, what I've, what I've realized is that to me, my passion, if you will, uh, lies with, for the most part with these little ones that sort of, uh, satellite around this whole concept is really the Australian reptiles. Um, you know, when it comes to, um, like for instance, you take olive python. They ignore the one from South America. Yeah. Like when it comes to olive pythons in particular, you know, to me, uh, if I saw them never, uh, I would not be drawn to them if I was not, cause being into, I'm trying to say this right. So being in the carpet pythons, obviously I become, uh, enamored with, um, you know, Australian, what's going on in Australia and then that leads you to other things. And then you realize that this is here and that is here. I'm not saying like, if you look at, um, Apodora, I have no cool snake. They don't, they don't do anything for me. Yeah. No. I'm not, I don't have any like, I love seeing them. I, I can appreciate people that keep them. Uh, I think that, uh, that, that, that they're very, very cool. Um, I'm sure seeing them in person. They're probably even cooler, uh, but for some reason, I'm not, I'm not drawn to them. You know, I have no, no idea to want to keep them, um, you know, and then you take something like an olive python to me. I'm just looking at this snake that's just a brown snake. And I'm like, this is the baddest snake, you know, this is so cool. You know, somebody, I had somebody over there. I'm like, check out the all of my time. They're like, who's a big brown snake? I'm going to get out of my room. It's like, it's like there, and then I have my cousin over here who's like, I would love some all of my stuff. Like you have never owned a snake before. Maybe this is not a good first one for you. So it's like, hey, it's like, yeah, the two different kinds of inspection, but it's like, I absolutely love my olives and, um, I think they're completely under underrated. And I think that would all change if I get my debris and if I get babies, I swear to God, I'm going to bring my, I'm going to bring my female to a hamburger show. I don't care if it's a find a way to build a brand new acrylic display to fit her in it. Um, if I bring her to a show and she sits there in her massive owl python, he missed glory. Um, people are going to be drawn to it because first off, it's something you normally don't see. Because remember, I put a water python on a table and people lost a damn mind. Yeah. Um, and you saw that at the family bar with a maclox python in the display. Yeah. I had to put not for sale because people kept trying to get it from me. So, yeah, I just want it. So it's like, you got to understand with that stuff is that it's different. It's interesting and people are going to be drawn to it. And that's what I absolutely love about the weird stuff. The unfortunate part is that I keep wanting the weirder things and I haven't talked to you about this, but you know, the one thing that I kind of want to get on right now. Mm-hmm. I want to get more pythons. Yeah. I, I, that there, there's another example for a long time, I was kind of enamored with some beautiful snakes, you know, um, yeah, um, they're like, uh, very retic-esque, uh, you know, but in a smaller package. It's like a retic and a white lip had a psychotic baby and it's like, there it is. So, um, and I want it. So, yeah, so, like, Michael Cole has babies right now and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, so I need to, but I need to be good. You just thought- Did he produce? He produced or? No, he, I hafta-fatched. I think they're cat-fatched, but they're young and you do. That's what I want. I want little ones that I can raise. So. Yeah. I, it's definitely for cool, for, for, for another example of something that, you know, so I don't know, like, I, I wonder like if, if part of the mystique for me was keeping, you know, carpet pythons has to do with the actual love of Australia. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure that somehow that's twisted in my brain somehow that, that has to do it. But for whatever reason, I'm really drawn towards, you know, for, for, here's another example. You know, I am on this kick where I just freaking love walmopythons. I don't know what- Whoa! Oh, God. Oh, oh. Oh, oh. Oh, oh. Oh, oh. Oh, oh. Oh, oh. Oh my pythons. I just think are so freaking cool. That's a badass snake. And I know that they- What's that? Oh, you should wait for Bailin, because he produces some killer walmas, like, every year. And he apparently has, like, this trio that he's like, oh, yeah, they're bulletproof. He's like, it's like clockwork. And he got him completely by accident, but he absolutely walmos him, because they just, they eat, they breed, and they produce really good looking babies, and he has walmas, like, every year. Well, every year. When I was researching walmas, and really looking at them, and finding out, you know, more about them in their natural history, and all that kind of stuff, one of the things that I came across was this video, and it was by, I think his name is Rob Breadly, right? So, he's the guy, his dad was the guy that, you know, found that I shouldn't say found. Breadly is their name for? Breadly is their name, dad. Oh. I don't know if he found them or he did, and I don't think he did, but anyway, that's not important. What is important is, is that this guy had a show, and it's similar to what Steve Irwin type of show, and he went through Australia, and you can find it on YouTube, and I think it's in three parts, maybe four parts, that the kicker of it is that the King Hornai, which is the last snake he finds, is not, I can't find that video. So, I think that what it's called is Killer Instinct, and it's Australian Python. So, you can look it up on YouTube, but he goes and he finds Walmas, and he's showing this observation when they're in the desert, right? And the sand is really hot. They kind of like, they don't lay flat on the sand, at any given point, they're sort of like, I guess it's like maybe Sidewinder-esque, they go in a straight, they don't move like a Sidewinder, they don't do that S, serpentine type of walk, they're walking in a straight line, but at any point, there's only two points on the ground, it's not like they're flat on the ground. Well, I guess in certain areas where the sun is super hot, and the sand is super hot, but they're basically, which I just thought was the coolest thing, but I don't know, you think about back in the days of Walma Python, and how much money they were, like, you know, what I mean, and now they're like, for lack of better word, I don't know, they're kind of like garbage snakes almost, you know, like, I mean, there is definitely the people that are, you know, love Walma Pythons and Aspenites, stuff, but, you know, I just, you don't see them getting the love that, you know, like, well, it's like, Walmas are like the uglier nerdier, younger brother of the blackheads, so it's like, everybody wants blackheads, everybody's actually namined with blackheads, here's an animal that's kind of like a blackhead, oh, no, no, we don't want that one, it's like, well, but they're, you know, Walmas are gorgeous in certain kinds of things, it's like, I had a trio, and the females were evil, evil bitches, but the male was really nice, and he was prettier than all of them, I didn't breed them, I ended up getting fed up with them and selling them, you know, that I haven't had anything as pothites since then, but I can definitely see the appeal of a Walma, a really nice sandy colored Walma with a bright orange hat, they're gorgeous, oh, yeah, with perfect ending and all that, oh, yeah, and you know, with the, with some of the line breeding that's done with these things, you can get some killer looking animals, I mean, and you're still think that where a lot of people don't, a lot of people are like, and here's thing is that you'll never have a problem selling Walmas, ever, never ever, in my opinion, because it's like, if people will obviously be like, oh, it's a weird snake, but other people are always willing to buy it, other people are always willing to give them shots, and people are always, like you said, are expediting people, even then there are people who deal with other animals that just want to pair a python that, and Walmas click right into it. So, basically, I'm telling you right now, Palin produces like two bludges a year, and he has never, ever, ever had any problems selling his Walmas. They're only the first things gone. So, you know, if you're on a Walma kick right now, man, you're on a Walma kick, so, yeah, yourself out, I'm on a, I'm on a, I'm still on an Indo kick, I, you know, if I can get out of 2015 without a parrot scheme or python, it's coming to me, I think I've succeeded, you've got a few weeks left, man. Oh, thank God. So, it'll be over soon, but I just think those things would be cool, and I dig them, but I'll wait. So, that's what you're looking to add to the collection for 2016. I finally got the gold white lips where I wanted, I have a pair of captive born and bred babies that I'm raising up, and I'm actually getting another, I'm getting a baby girl that was born in Pennsylvania, I'm getting her probably Saturday. So, I'll have a trio of gold that were all captive born and bred. So, the first thing is, I need the blacks, the first thing is, I need the blacks, and I don't care if I have to fly to Kentucky and throw them on a at Chad Gray, I will walk me over the pair of blacks, because you saw me at Tinley when he offered me those pair of blacks, and I couldn't do it. It's like, part of Owen's soul was like crushed. So, it, and then he came back around again and said, "Hey, man, I'll just, I'll give you a special discount, your Borrelio place on radio guy." You're like, "Oh, God." Somehow, it became my fault. It was, it was your fault. I don't know why, but it was. Yeah, I think I took my wallet out and like, threw it, it's like, I didn't, I couldn't, he couldn't be near me. So, it's like, so, it, those, those have to have, they have to have, because I've been wanting them, and I've been, for lack of better words, dicking around with these wild caught and captive-hashed animals for years, and doing the stupid thing of buying other people's animals that they've raised up from babies, and I, and now we're not doing that. I want a pair of captive-borned breads from somebody like Chad that I can raise up myself, and that will be the best chance I have in reproducing these animals, and that's what I want. I want to set myself up for success. I don't care if it takes four years, seven years, because you know what, if I had just bit the bullet, it bought the captive-borned breads when I first started getting into the white lips, I'd have four-year-olds right now that are getting ready to breed. So, you know, rather than spending all the money and the time with the stupid wild caught, I don't like wild caught captive-hashed, if I can avoid it, and I'm done with it now. So, I will get my white lips, and then we will visit the T-Morse, and let humans and ring pythons get in the way first. You have to go to Australia at some point, so, the other reason we have to have a good season, all my snake money got, like, beat up, because I like to take the money that I make from, you know, selling and breeding babies, and then I can use a T-note by the snakes that own one. When there are no babies, the money can take them out of almost pocket. So, we kind of don't want that anymore, so, but I'll get there. Yeah, yeah, I think, I think for me, it's tough, because there's a lot on my one-list for 2016, but I think that probably the one that I will probably want the most. Man, that's a tough one. I think I have to add rough scales in there. Yeah, I was about to say, here's the idea of the problem. If Nick produces rough scales, I'm probably going to want, you know, another girl. So, I might end up just buying more rough scales. So, it's like, yeah, I mean, it's just kind of one of those things, especially if Ron was the one that produces them. So, it would be, I'll probably end up just getting some more rough scales, too. So, but it's one of those things, and I do think that's something you have to add to your project. But, I mean, who the hell knows, because you might get into it, and, you know, or you might be going towards getting the rough scales, and then five parawomas, or something else might appear that you might want, or we might get into something else. It's like, we never freaking know. It just, it's weird. Ryan's breeding Dunnes pythons this year, maybe. Yeah, see, that's another one for me. Like, I know I get, totally get, why you want them, you know, because it's the main thing for, you know, for me, when it comes to, I guess it's like, for me, it's like Australian pythons, like completing the set. So, I get the whole life, just completing the set, so to speak. I get that, you know, working with all the different species. So, really, my long-term goal was to work with all the species that, you know, Australian pythons is kind of the idea, you know. I definitely won't miss, but the walnuts is nothing, you know. There's like a day's work, like, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's like, when I got the freaking Amazon Treebo, it's like, well, that was $16, and now we'll see how this goes. Yeah, which is fine with being, I don't care. So, sometimes you gotta do that. It's like, I'm sitting here and I have those corn snakes, and the rack that the corn snakes live in is not full. It's got two slots open on it. I'm like, you know, should I just get a pair of Cali Kings? Because they're Cali Kings, and we can produce Cali Kings, and now I'll have little baby cow kings to sell at the shows next to little corn snakes, and those were my first snakes ever, and I always kind of like cow kings, but, you know, it's like, eh, do I, do I don't? That's another Cali breed. They shit everywhere. Do you really want that if we're gonna do another Cali breed? Do you want us to get the rhinos? Rhinos cost a lot of money. Goddamn it. So, it's like, you could take the rhino money and use that for like, inlands, and you can just get a pair of Cali Kings with the change that you have in the drawer of stuff. It's certain things like that. So, it's, you know, you're tempted, and I swear to God, the Amazon tree boaters don't breed this year, they're gone, because I've had enough of the boa experiments. So, it's just like, and it comes down to it, it's like looking at these flowers and looking at various other animals that are in my collection, and looking at the animals that I want, it's like, you're here, and you're pissing me off, and you teamwork could go where you are. So, it's like, it's very stuff like that. So, yeah. You know, I think of, you know, another one that I've been eyeing for a long time is actually me and Buddy were talking about it with Matt at Carpetfest, Pigney Python, you know. Again, you don't see a whole lot. Well, yeah, you know, it's weird that I have a pair of children's pythons, and again, nothing flashy, nothing crazy, just straight, you know, VPI lineage, the female was produced by Australian addiction, reptiles, and the male came from Petzit Sunset, which I got through Dave Kelly, and, you know, I really dig that, man. They're just like this tiny, tiny, tiny python, you know, and like, then you look at Pigney pythons and they're even smaller, you know. Yeah, like, I'm healed and come with that. Yeah, that's what they are, you know, and percentage out. Just a cool snake, especially if you get those ones that have that really, really red, you know, like that Australian sand color type of thing. It's a cool species, you know. If we're talking about outside of, you know, and again, I'm not in any rush for these. Angolans is probably the one species of Python that I like, that is outside of the realm of my Australian. Of course, there's the bloods, but I think my blood collection is pretty much where I want it to grow these guys up and reach them, you know. I really like the Sumatran's out of the whole group. So I'm kind of happy with those. I don't see myself really adding anything else. I mean, at one point, I'd like to add a gold and I simply because I'd like to make a pixel, but, you know, I can see myself just maybe at some point buying a pixel, you know, when the price comes down. See, that comes down to it every once in a while. He's like, "Yeah, I got it." He's like, you know, whatever. And what I find with my guys, or I never talk about the suns, is like, suns are almost, in my opinion, somewhere between a macluts and a sivu, which is cool to me because it's like looking at all my lads, you get the monsters which is the olives, and you have the macs which come in there, and then you have the sivus, which are the tiny psychos, and you have the water pythons, which are the, you know, the veins from the fire pits of hell. So the duns I would like to fit into, like, kind of in between the olives and the macs, where it's like, it's kind of like a mac, but it looks a little different, and it's cool. And this is now seem a little bit longer, more olives on shapes, so they look cool. They would be something I would want to add. Do I necessarily have to add them next year? No. Can I wait? Yeah, probably. But you know that they're here, and they're being worked with by people like Nick and Ryan. Now I know where they are. Okay, search over. It's like those guys did all the legwork, and they went like crazy to the ends of the earth, tracking these animals down, and now they have them, and now I'm going to reap the benefits of them doing all the first. So eventually when they're breathing, I'm just going to be like, hey Nick, can I get a pair of duns? And then like, I'll be like, success, duns, it's like I didn't do any work. I did nothing. I sat on my ass and waited for those guys to get done with it. So, and that's what I'm going to love about it, though, is to have all of them in one place. I think it would be cool. That in glasses is just cool to me. God, if somebody got me into my ass before Morellia, there could have been some issues. Yeah, well, they're cool snakes, for sure. You know, I mean, yeah, I'd love my necklabs. I thought, you know, I actually, I like them. I like them so much that I thought I saw that at all. I went out and I bought a mail. I got rid of it. Well, I gave that mail to you, and then I like them so much. Yeah, I like them. But I went and bought them again, you know, I had to get them, which I'm glad I did, because the female I have is just, oh, God, out of this world. Gorgeous. Well, you said that you're well on your way too. You have Max and olives, right? Yeah. Yeah. But see, I would much rather have, you know, like, you're right. I'll send you mine. Well, yeah, I'd like to get to Northern Territory ones that some people are working with over here. I think I think that would be cool to have, you know, a quote unquote locality type. Another high one up on my list is Blackheads. Yeah. I have, I have one now, but I think that it's time to sort of work with them for real. I see some of the stuff that like Kay Brothers is doing with crazy, crazy stuff that they have. But again, like, very different, different snake. If you've never worked with them, they're very monitor-esque, definitely different than carpets. You know, they're almost like thinking and looking at you. And like, I know people have said that, you know, like, Derek has talked about that before, but definitely a cool thing. I think one of the drawbacks with some of these species is the fact that, you know, their babies basically eat geckos and other snakes and reptiles and go when they're babies, which has always kind of steered me away from, from breeding them. But I don't even think it's about breeding them anymore. Like, it would be cool if I do it. I love to experience it. But I just want to keep them because I think they're little snakes. So, I don't know. A lot of, a lot of what is in the 2016 year, for sure. All right. I've been looking at Gila Monsters. Gila Monsters. Wow, okay. My dad will definitely want to come and visit your stuff, Tim, for sure. Oh, God. If they were, if they were, if they were cheap, right, already have three. But it's, they, we used to work, we used to have them at the zoo. And they're like little bulldogs in lizard form. I swear to God, they got such attitude, but they're so easily defeated by hooks. It's like, once you host them, they're like, oh, damn it. It's kind of hanging there. And it's like, but then you put them right back down, they're like, nah, it's things swirling. But they don't really do too much. And they eat very gently. They need to have a dish. You can tong feed them. The only issue comes is when you try to breed them and they try to kill each other. And, but they're gorgeous. And they, they're, they're, they're, they're very pretty animals. And I would just love a pair of Gila Monsters. I don't know why I don't want a pair of Gila Monsters. So I would even take, I would even take one just as a pet. So. Yeah. I mean, outside of the realm, now, now you're talking outside of the realm. Now we're not going to wait out there. Yeah. I think that's, that's a definite that's going to happen in 2016 is a blue tongue skink. I think you did me. Yeah. Well, you know, I've fought it for a long time, a long, long time, but the more and more that I see what people are working with and there's, they're just, they're cool reptiles. I can see the draw. The problem that I've always steered away from them is I hate the whole, you know, look at my skink with a top hat. You know, Mr. Mr. McPew is settling down with something. You know, you know, Andrew, Andrew's coming and he's taking all his lizards out of here tomorrow. So the top, the tanks upstairs will be empty again. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, well, I gotta put something in there until the diamonds are big enough. And I'm sitting there and I'm going through stuff. I'm like, I gotta always get a skink. I'm like, if I got a skink and I took a picture of it every day wearing a hat and sent it to Zach, how long would it take for him to kill me? It's like, if there's, I was just sitting there going like, I could just do this and then I could go straight to the store and buy every single like doll hat. I sat in there and be like, one a day straight to Zach, but it, it, it, it wasn't worth it enough for me. But it's like, I've heard, we've heard all these things. We see them as coming as the next up and coming thing. Zach, ever once in a while, blows up the little thread we have where we talk about this stuff with all these different kinks. And some of them are gorgeous and freaky looking. The, the belly of that one shingle back that he sent us with that yeah pattern. And it looks almost like a, like a freaking rug. It was insane. So maybe you can do well with your blue tongue stinks. So yeah, I mean, you know, there's two things behind that one. I think it's a, it's a cool reptile. And the other thing is, is that the more and more I do this, the more and more like my, my niece and nephew have been hounding me about coming in, giving a, you know, like showing the reptiles to the kids at school and stuff like that. And, you know, when I did the show by myself and I, I'm talking about my first introduction to reptiles, it really kind of, really kind of solidified for me how important that is to, to, for people to do, especially with young kids, because, you know, I'm forever, whether you want to say damaged, or whether you want to say it's a good thing or a bad thing. You know, seeing that snake at that, you know, at the Natural History Museum and, and, and, you know, touching it and just being just amazed by it, really in a, in a lot of ways changed my life, you know, I mean, so to have that kind of effect on people, especially when you're talking young people, you have the ability to really sort of, you know, shape their, their minds and their perceptions about things. So, you know, if, if they are not introduced to these things at a young age, they may grow up with fears or misunderstanding, which leads to fear and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, I've really been thinking about that, but one of the things that's held me back is that, you know, I, I mean, yeah, my carpet pythons are cool, but who's going to know that difference between the coast and Italy. You know what I'm saying? Like, they're going to be like, okay, that's a, you know, so, I see. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know, like, dude, dude, I used to do educational programs. You brought, I brought it and I'll find out Burmese python. Is that an anaconda? And it's almost like, no, you don't want to, you can't say that. You got to like, you know, so you're exactly right there and get another difference. So, having a skink for an animal like that, a bearded dragon, if you other things, would be great to show off to kids. Yeah, that's, that's kind of the idea. You know, I want to somehow, I want to somehow tie it into, to an Australian theme type of, you know, type of thing. And I like, then we should get you a death adder. Those would be great. Yeah, show the kids. Yeah, kids, you know, well, it's really good. So I think, I just think that long term, you know, those type of introductions, you know, even if they don't necessarily grow up to be reptile keepers, they may grow up to have a better appreciation for the environment. And for me, I guess, Australia is the, the holy temple when it comes to environment, you know, I mean, that's kind of the promised land, so to speak, you know, I don't know. So that's, that's kind of the, you know, to grab a bearded dragon, I was going to say to you this weekend, like when you're in Hamburg, like, how much can a bearded dragon cost? What 50 bucks? I was like, I can get you one for free. People are like, please God take this. I mean, like, you know, that certain animals, you can get like that. And unfortunately, they're usually the ones that end up interested. And, you know, it's, but if you could take an animal from a bad situation or rescue group and use it as an educational program, I think that's some of the best stuff you can do. And here's the other things that you said, they don't, they don't necessarily have to grow up to be reptile people, but maybe they grow up to be animal people. And those animal people respect not just the furry and cuddly animal, but all animal. And we stopped having the various things. I think the thing that's running around the internet now is everybody lost their minds over a woman taping a dog's mouth shut. And of course, right out of that came pictures of the, the rattlesnakes with their mouth sewn shut. And it's like, well, what's the difference here? So it's like, you know, you can get more people to kind of see that there's not really that big of a difference there. Yeah, who the hell knows? You know, people are fucking retarded, man, when it comes to you. That makes me so mad. I'm glad you brought that up because I tell you why I am regretting it, but go ahead. It took every ounce of me, like, I have really kind of shied away from Facebook altogether. You know, I'm just kind of just, I'm so fucking done with the bullshit. I'm just, I'm done, man. You know, it's just, yeah, I don't shit, you know, I'm done. I have the groups that, you know, go on and like stuff and I talk messages and I update our pages and all that kind of stuff. But other than that, that drama bullshit is done with me. I like reptile too much to be worrying about what the fuck you think, you know, I mean, I care about what I think and what is going on in my reptile room. If you don't like that, fuck off. You know what I mean? That's all I can say. But when I see that and like people were actually, oh man, I'm reading this thing and I'm like, are you kidding me that there's actually people in the world that are so fucking stupid that they think that somehow that that's okay, that somehow this is legitimate. And it's like, are you kidding me? Are you just people today or just fucking dumb, man? It's just dumb, you know, these Facebook, it's going to be the death of us in the world. I mean, like, whole society shot this shit knew it's going to happen. And the double standard is obviously out there with people posting up pictures of snakes, they killed in the garden and other stuff like that. Like, these people shot this dog, we're going to make them famous and have them arrested. These people, this guy shot his snake with a nail gun isn't a cool every life. So it's like, this double standard is there and it's a disgusting double standard and anybody who is an animal person per se should not be victim to that double standard. If it's an animal, I don't care what it is, it deserves the right to be treated humanely. You know, and then now I'm telling you right now, I absolutely love eating, you know, meat and everything else. But I would like it if my food was killed swiftly and humanely within the guidelines of various government agencies and those government agencies, you make sure that the animals are put to death humanely. Now I understand that there's a big problem with all other crap with, you know, housing of certain animals and blah, blah, blah, blah. Hopefully that all changes. But what I'm saying is basically, no matter what the hell it is, snake, spider, mollusk, animal, it should be mammal, whatever, to be treated humanely. Well, yeah, you're right. And you know, I've had people, you know, from my background, dealing with the food industry. Okay. So I've had people actually come up and complain to me about the fact that we sell, you know, meat and all this kind of shit. Meanwhile, they're in fucking leather shoes. Are you kidding me? You got a leather bell on. Where do you think that came from? Is that the god damn thing? Oh, no. That's a very bad idea. Shut up. You know, I'm just like, oh, man, it takes people. They're just so fucking stupid, man. Oh, my god. It drives me nuts. I'm like, are you serious right now? Are you serious? You know, and then when you get people come in, people, I swear to you, they come in. One of the things that I've thought about, right, is that I've thought about, I've talked to this with my dad because my dad used to hunt. And I'm somewhat not, I'm somewhat into this because I used to cut meat and fish for a living. So like when you put it in all day, obviously, I understand where that came from, you know what I mean? But I think that for a whole new appreciation of where your food comes from is to go out and hunt it and kill it and eat it. You know, if you, I see these people all the time that will sit there and argue with you about the fact that, you know, it's wrong to hunt. And this person posted up a picture that they killed a deer and they posted up a picture on Facebook that they killed a deer. Oh, that's so wrong. Oh, my god. I can't believe it. But this person should be, what do you mean? You're eating a fucking McDonald's tamper. Or is you writing it? So you, you're going to eat the animal. But that's totally cool. If you're trophy hunting, you know, just do me a favor, eat the damn lion. And then I won't have any problems with you. So I'm not saying that you're legally and all that kind of stuff. But at the same point, it's like certain parts of that, it's like, okay, you know, Eugene said this perfectly. I think he basically said that if you want an animal to be worth anything, you know what I mean? You can't just, like, you're have to give it economic value. You can't just say, oh, yeah, we love, we love chickens, you know, they're just cool. They're like little Tyrannosaurus rex, isn't it awesome? I don't think there's this yet. Oh, but they're going to make an example. No, oh, you put a little barbecue sauce on it. Now everybody wants the damn thing. So, but yeah, I got all that all comes around with that stuff. But it's just funny watching that stuff. And if you can get, you get one person out of your educational programs to care about this kind of stuff. Yes. That's what, that's all that is worth it. Everything. Your travel time, your aggravation, you're having to be with a bearded dragon in your house, all of a shit. Well, the cool thing is that my wife has volunteered to take care of said bearded dragon, but back. Yeah, I've had several bearded dragons that I'm like, you know, every day, what's wrong with you? Like, you're like a dog. Exactly. So it's like, you know, it and bugs and get the hell out of here. So, I've had beardies. I don't want to do beardies anymore. But yeah, I've had a pretty big group and it was, it was a lot. No, I'm not talking about a group. I'm talking about one. You know, one, one, one you can set up, one you can set up and you're like, here you go. You're freaking good. Here's your salad and everyone's while you're like in here goopy your roaches. All right. Life is good. You know, life is good. Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know, it's just, it's just funny how desensitized people are like, it's funny. You watch them in the stay show up into the supermarket. They go back into the, to the meat department and see the guy in the white coat and they go and they, they pick up their little pink package of meat and they think like, oh, this is this nice, you know, like, animal didn't have to die in order for you to live, you know, you dumb shit. Good lord. Educate yourself. Geez. Anyhow. I do, I do love venison. It is delicious. So, I've been tempted to go out and try to go with Andrew and do a hunting trip for some venison. So, unfortunately, I am a terrible shot. So, I'd end up just like getting everything but the deer. So, um, yeah. I think you, you gain a whole new respect for animals and life itself with that kind of, you know, I remember when I was young because I did love animals so much and I still do. And it's not like I want to go out and just kill animals like I want some kind of killing rampage or something like that. But yeah, at the same point, like it's so hypocritical for people to just think that somehow like these little slabs of meat that show up on your little pink boat that somehow like, you know, oh, well, this is just fabulous. You know, it doesn't work that way. You know, so they have no concept of where it came from or the animals or the conditions that the animals have meant. I've seen that and some of it is it. I'll tell you what, I was a vegetarian six years, six years. It had nothing to do with other than the fact of working behind the scenes and seeing what it takes to put those pieces of meat in a pink boat. It's just like, dude, I can't, you know what I mean? So I mean, I had to cut it because I had to make a living and this is what I was doing and this is all I knew how to do. But at the same point, I'm not, I didn't need it. But these takes sure are yummy, man. They are delicious. They are delicious, which is what draws that always brings you back. I can never eat meat. Even in place, you know, that you're done. It's over. I'll tell you what, you become desensitized, right? And it's fact that you kind of forget like what that tastes like, you know what I mean? And then I remember I was at, I was playing a gig and I was drunk and I came back and they were like, hey, man, we ordered cheese steaks. And I was just like, you know what, I'm fucking hungry, screwing. And goddamn, was that the best cheese stick ever out of my life. Good lord, that was good. But any. We are so far off topic now. Yes, we are. We've now somehow talked about butchering, hunting, and eating cheese steaks because we're boys and this is how it works out. Everything leads back to cheesecakes. Yeah, that's right. No. No. No. It's that privilege. Yes. So, all right, well, we're about out of time anyway. So, I guess we will wrap it up and call it a day. I guess we'll go down the list next week. Speaking of, we talked about earlier, "Blue Tongue Skinks," the episode that we've missed a couple weeks ago will be revisiting with Zach Baez from Darksidexotics and we'll be talking "Blue Tongue Skinks," "Care," "Species," "Natural History," "What's available," "Morphs," all that kind of stuff. Some of the misconceptions about keeping them, there's some debate on whether or not, you know, certain things have to be provided to them like UV lighting and some people get mad if you keep them in tubs. Same debate that you have with other things, but yeah. Zach's pretty successful with keeping them. I think this coming year is going to be his first year of breeding them. He knows a lot about them and I think he would be an awesome guest. So, he's going to be chatting it up. The week after that, we have a holiday show and then we're out. So, two more episodes left and then that's it for 2015. The calendars, like we said earlier, they should be here any day. As soon as they're here in the house, I will put up a post and they'll be available and I should be contacting people this week for their addresses so that you can send the winners off their copies. And at the start of the new year, all of the winners from this year will be up on moralitypythonradio.com. You can check that out. And if you want to contact us about a show idea, talk to us about maybe something that you would like to hear or maybe something that you heard that really you thought was cool or maybe you thought was not cool. You can send it at info@merreliopythonradio.com. Like our Facebook page, you can follow us on Twitter, @merreliopythonradio. Let's see, what else? And I guess the only other thing that I have is myself is ebmerrelia.com. I just put up the 2016 breeding page that we talked about throughout the show, so if you're interested in seeing any of those pairings or what the animals are, you can go on over or go to the breeding diary, click on the tab that says breeding diary, go to 2016. You'll be able to flip through and see all the pairings. Hopefully, I've finally narrowed it down to exactly how I wanted to flow with information and I've kind of experimented with it for the last couple years and I finally got it to where I wanted it. So, all the updates for the clutch and the info and whether it was good or bad will be right there on that page. So, be sure to check it out. I will not be shipping any more animals, so I won't be pushing anything, but I still will have animals available. So, I guess the only chance that you have to get animals from me going forward probably until spring would maybe be at a Hamburg show or something like that, which I think what's this Saturday, right? Saturday, yep. And then, is there one in what? February? February? Yep. So, maybe in the later February, like they do it early December, four starts getting cold when they do it again in like late February when it's starting to get a little warm. So, yeah, I mean, that's pretty much it. So, if you want to contact me for anything, you want to get on the list, yeah, I will be doing lists for the, for my 2016 season that way. I kind of have an idea of, you know, who wants what? Send it to eric@ebmerly.com. As far as eebmerly, you can follow me on my Facebook page. You can follow me on Twitter and I'm also on Instagram. Any of those spots work and that's all I got. Cool. Okay. So, what I got is I have the breeding journal for this year. It is on Rogue Reptiles Facebook. You can just go on Facebook, look up Rogue Reptiles. Give it a like and you can check that out there. I will be posting it on the website probably in the next few days and that is rogue-reptiles.com. If you see any babies, we still have a few tigers, caramells and caramel jags that you're might be interested in. Let us know. We will be venting the Hamburg reptile show and that is this Saturday in Hamburg, Pennsylvania. We do not have that many babies left. So, if you see something you kind of want, now would be the time to talk to us. And, of course, we'll keep everybody informed about parings and if anybody wants to get on a list. For any of the 2016 pairs, let us know they are subject change as well as operations as we kind of go through the season. And I'm not shipping anything either. So, we got that. What we will say is thank you everyone for listening and we're going to catch everybody next week or some more really on radio. Good night. Hey, Chad Brown here. You may remember me at the linebacker in the NFL when I was a reptile breeder and their owner of Projekt. I've been hurtful since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breeding and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Markle and I created the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. New to reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news photos and links so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. The reptile report offers powerful branding and marketing exposure for your business and the best part is it's free. You're a buyer or breeder, you got to check out the reptile report marketplace. The marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling destination full of features that help put you in touch with the perfect deal. Find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system, search by sex, weights, more, or other keywords and use our buy-it-now option to buy that animal right now. Go to marketplace.the reptilereport.com and register your account for free. Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptile accounts or earn free tokens with each shipping label you book. Use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum ad. It also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page. Buy your own selling and ship your reptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rate. Ship your reptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use ship your reptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. The materials needed to ship your reptile successfully, live customer support, and our live on time arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptilereport.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace, find that perfect pet or breeder. Then visit shipreptile.com to ship an animal anywhere in the United States. We are your one-stop shop for everything reptile related. [Music] [Music]
In this episode we will talk about our breeding season's at EB Morelia and Rogue Reptiles.