Morelia Python Radio

Eb Morelia episode.

In this episode I will be flying solo and figured it would be a good opportunity to talk about my personal collection and upcoming breeding season here at EB Morelia. I will talk about what I hope to pick up this upcoming season and what I hope to see hatch out.

Duration:: 2h 56m
Broadcast on:: 18 Nov 2015
Audio Format:: other

Hey Chad Brown here. You may remember me at the line back in the NFL, where's the reptile breeder and their owner of ProJox. I've been hurtful since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptile. I also love to encourage the joy of breeding and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Markle and I created the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of the latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news photos and links so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists, just like you. The reptile report offers powerful branding and marketing exposure for your business and the best part is it's free. You're a buyer or breeder, you've got to check out the reptile report marketplace. The marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling destination full of features that help put you in touch with the perfect deal. Find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system, search by sex, weight, more, or other keywords. Use our Buy Now option to buy that animal right now. Go to marketplace.the reptilereport.com and register your account for free. Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptile accounts or earn free tokens with each shipping label you book. Use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum med. It also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page. Buy on the selling and ship your reptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rate. Ship your reptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use ship your reptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rate. The materials needed to ship your reptile successfully, live customer support, and our live on time arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptilereport.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace. Find that perfect pet or breeder. Then visit shipreptiles.com to ship that animal anywhere in the United States. We are your one-stop shop for everything reptile related. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Hello everybody welcome to another episode of Moralia Python radio. This is a very unique episode in that I will be flying solo. It's the first ever solo episode of Moralia Python radio. Unfortunately Zach had a death in his family so we have to reschedule the blue tongue skink episode which I was looking forward to. But we'll probably be hitting that sometime in December. And Owen I don't know I think Jim told me that he had another shipment of snakes come to the office so he's on punishment and he's hanging out working the night shift at work something like that. But oh we'll be back next week and we have the round table with a ball install so that should be a great show. But before we get going I wanted to mention two things. First this past Sunday I was asked to fill in for Buddy as a guest on GTP Keeper radio. And it was really cool to hang out with talk with those guys both Bill and Brad, Brad Waffa was the guest and he's a vet and he was talking about some different things as far as what he's experienced and his career as a vet with reptiles and such. So it's a pretty cool episode. There was some little tidbits that you can take away so just look up GTP Keeper radio on iTunes or whatever your podcast app of choice is to check out. Second there's an auction going on for Bob Fudo and it's over on Morelle you pick at the week and ends tomorrow. This is the third animal up for auction for this. It's a 2014 male zebra from Precision. I mean not from Precision. It's from a Precision zebra bred to an unknown female JCP and I guess it's an ivory phenotype. But it's from GFX Moralea Julie. She donated that animal so get on over there and check it out. I got plenty of questions popping over here in the chat room so that's pretty cool. So yeah so tonight's episode I figured since I never have really the opportunity to go in depth about my collection or my parents or what I have going on I figured you know since Owen's not here to hear me talk about morphs and crazy abominations as he calls them I figured it was a good opportunity to talk about some of that stuff and some of the stuff that I do so and he believes in me and some of the stuff that I do over here at E.B. Moralea. I guess if you're new to the podcast so this is the first time that you're doing it I'm going to give a little history on myself and then you know get into some of the stuff that I had. I know I got a couple questions that are popping up and there was a couple questions on the post and you know somebody wants to talk about IJs and such and I do have some callers. I don't know I'm afraid to click these guys on let's see I'll click these on first here let's say popping up 347 area code you have a question a comment Eric hey who's this hey yeah I heard you a flying solo tonight so I figured I'd call in we could talk ideas now that Owen's not around I love it what's up oh it's Chris what's up Chris yeah oh my mother go cool how's it going so nothing it's weird now to hear another voice I didn't know if I was live or what was going I'm used to hearing something going on but cool yeah IJs man IJ talk yeah I love them well you know what do you got going on this year with IJs I only have one pair I'm doing granite to hack granite to virgin female I'm doing all my other females a year off so that's about it I haven't decided on anything else I have another pair I might try but I think I'm just going to go with the one pair this year I still have a lot of 2015 sitting around so I rather put some work into them gotcha now do you think that do you think that it's because are you finding it that people don't really give IJs the love that they deserve or what would you hoard in the back what's the deal I don't know I mean I haven't put much effort into selling stuff I've gotten pretty lazy with posting stuff to sell I'm just sitting around watching them grow oh but no there's people out there like them yeah that's a jungle yeah that's yeah yeah for sure yeah I think well I guess I get into you know like as far as IJs goes this year and next year is probably going to be my you know I've been waiting around to really produce some some really nice IJs and you know it takes so long to grow these things up that you forget about these pairings and I think that this year next year I'm going to have some really well I hope I'm going to have some really nice some IJs I think one of the coolest pairings that I have going on was able to pick up a PC IJ from Aaron and for people that don't know what PC is it stands for poster child and basically poster child was an animal it was a female that was purchased by Yasser and he purchased her from Will Leary and that was back in '03 and she was a wild caught and she was about I don't know eight nine years old that was the thought she laid two clutches and in '05 she laid a clutch with a pure IJ and that was Herman which is basically VPI lineage and then in '06 Yasser bred her to a 50% IJ or no a JAG so she he got a 50% IJ JAG clutch I guess if you look back then IJ JAGs are probably like the coolest thing you know kind of like nobody really cares about them these days I would think right do you think you know it's like yeah I mean when I when I first started getting into carpets that's what what attracted me to them I saw the stuff Anthony Capinetto was working with on the first website I went to and I saw those IJ JAGs and that was one of the first ones of the most I was actually my third carpet with IJ JAGs on him yeah yeah it's funny you bring that up because that was probably the what I mean you know when I was researching carpets somehow I stumbled across that website and I remember seeing Bullwinkle and if you don't know who Bullwinkle is you can just Google Bullwinkle and Bullwinkle IJ JAG and you'll see what I'm talking about this thing was crazy you know I mean just insane looking beautiful beautiful snake and you know I think when I started seeing his line of GQ IJ's that really kind of you know started me in that vein of wanting to really refine IJ's and I don't know I've been in all those years since '08 I finally just this past year got a pair of you know pure GQ line animals and they're basically what would you say they're high contrast is that as that how you would explain them I don't know I mean I don't I don't have any pure GQ stuff the GQ stuff I have is mixed with Hannibal okay Hannibal stuff seems to be much lighter than the GQ GQ animal but yeah I think they have the very solid black around the lighter pattern yeah so yeah I'd say a lot of contrast yeah yeah I think I had an animal unfortunately she passed away before I could breed her but she was produced from the Reptilicus line IJ's and you can see her on my website but she was basically chestnut brown black and yellow which is just you know insane it just was an insane so the idea is to just produce animals that are like that now with the poster child poster child almost had like this hypo esque look to it and I'm gonna post a picture of the one that I picked up over in the chat room so you can see what I'm talking about but yeah that's that's my boy that I picked up that I'll be breeding this year and I'm breeding him with a m Michael Penel IJ I like the the results that I think a few years ago Matt Lacoste what was that is that like 2012 I think he did that pairing right I don't know he's looking so many different IJ's I lost track I've seen so much of his thoughts right so yeah and I think I'm almost positive it was 2012 so he did the same type of parent actually with the same animal so I'm gonna I'm gonna do that and and try to produce some really nice reduced pattern hypo esque type of IJs so it should be cool and for me the other cool pairing with IJs is I was another awesome pick up that I had this year was I picked up a tiger IJ tiger IJ I guess is still on the fence on whether or not this is proved out or not but basically it's a striped IJ has a really bald back similar to what you'd see in like a tiger jag and I picked up that animal from Mike Curtin and he is going with poison ivy so that should be interesting to see what happens with that so and then you know projected into the following year I'm gonna be doing I have some dumb and Sophie animals which are just probably my favorite IJs that I own they should be ready to go I have some Luke Snell stuff man Boa Cabana stuff GQ stuff I have about 30 IJs that's a lot of IJs man yeah that is a lot of IJ problem yeah but you know the most important IJs I think are the Exantec IJs and you should have some of that going to right yeah well yes I have a male head Exantec that is going to be going with a female head Exantec I think that you will go I'm kind of on the fence you know it's like one of those things like I don't know I'm gonna give it a try because IJs can breed I think on the smaller side you know I don't think they have to be quite as big as other carpets do I don't know my IJs are kind of small but then my carpets are kind of small so I don't know I mean when I got Mike's boy oh my gosh this thing is bigger than my females you know yeah where I know I bred my first female the first year that I I bred carpets the female was 1600 grams and a couple years later I had picked up what was supposed to be a female it ended up being an adult male it's huge just why I never decided to double check the sex on it because they're such a big animal and it ended up being that GQ Hannibal male that I got but it was I mean it was over 2000 grams which is nothing like any of the males I've raised up here and my males reach 700 grams and as long as they're bleeding that's it they don't put on any more weight yeah yeah I keep yeah I probably around the same same same weight I would say I think my females are maybe maybe 1200 grams I would say maybe tops so yeah so so yeah that's my two well actually three you know that one was sort of the one that was sort of on the fence I mean I mean basically there's what we have Exanic Granite and there's a couple other possible you know morphs that are out there but I think the Exanic Granite is probably the freakin coolest mutation you know that's out there to date like that combo is just killer yeah I agree I love that make yeah that's I can't wait to produce one of those so you know it's like this thing that that I've been doing for the past couple years it's like I continually produce these this head stuff which you know is visually you know not that's you know I know what the potential is and somebody like you would know what the potential is but you're average person that doesn't really know about carpets was probably gonna just say oh yeah okay whatever you know and and then you have to wait another you know three years to to grow the animals up before you can before you can breed it you know next year probably the most exciting thing is I have a male from from the poison ivy clutch that I did in 2014 and he'll be ready to go and I'm gonna breed her back to mom and see what happens that will probably be my most exciting clutch of the year I mean I'm waiting playing my nails those you know as those eggs are in the incubator just you know wanting to cut them or I don't know it's just gonna be crazy you know and it could be something or it could be nothing but did you either way she had dark enough to breed back then well here's the thing with that clutch in particular it's kind of weird they look you know okay so you'll know this if you look in a head examic ij right you know how it has a different look to it I don't have a head exam I've never seen one in person okay well but I've never seen one in person so if you saw the green ij's you know the green ij's that are over in Europe that's similar to what the heads look like they have this kind of like it's almost like I don't know if you if you've seen coastal examics right so when you have coastal examics and you have this head it almost looks like they're examic but it's just like it's almost like it's an incomplete dominant thing and the examic is the super you know I know that they say that they're recessive but I don't know man I haven't I have a head examic jag I coastal and you would swear that that thing is examic you would you swear that it is you know it's just crazy but so these head examic ij's have this look to them and the poison ivy babies there's a few of them in there that have like this examic look to them and it just very odd looking and every time they shed they change you know and then there's these other babies where the black on the animals are very very black so if anything poison ivy would be awesome to do like a high kind if nothing works out with her and it doesn't prove out that she's a melanistic I think that you know it to put her with like say gq animal I think it's gonna be very high contrast you know and I've taken pictures of those animals but I don't know it's it's hard to I was thinking about doing a YouTube video and trying to maybe capture it that way because the pictures I've taken don't really do the animal justice of what I'm talking about but you know I don't know we'll see I mean if you look at blue tongue skinks for example the melanistic blue tongue skinks from what I've seen I think I saw it on one of Peter Birch's YouTube things they were showing that the the heads come out and they're somewhat melanistic and then you know you breed them back and then you get a solid black animal which is which is pretty not so I don't know fingers are crossed man it would be cool for sure to have an all black ij I'd be singing well that's the fun in it you don't know what you're gonna hatch out yeah yeah absolutely so but even beside the morphs I think that ij's are way underrated they're probably my you know ij's and in lens are probably my favorite I don't know I just think that they're cool animals and they have they have they have a third color you know or jungles just have two colors ij's have a third color they have that yellow they have the black but then they have the brown and the chestnut and you know it's just orange and some of them and you know it's crazy but and the color change depending on the time of day is pretty drastic too I don't I'm sure you notice that with your animal yeah yeah that's pretty wild if you're not used to that and you open up to tell me like oh my god what the hell is this what happened you know yeah totally different out of them yeah it's just pretty cool which is that's what I was saying about the oh and pelley pythons they kind of do something similar to that I don't I think they're more drastic than ij's but you know do you find that your ij's go breed earlier in the year than than anything else that your breeding of the first two seasons they did but then this past season my ij female is actually the last to go and my albino stuff and my other crosses I had done that all that all went first I don't know the reason for it and now I had just have the that ij pairing together and they've been together for I pair stuff up so early I pair things up the end of October and I haven't seen anything yet I mean they're weighing together so I guess something could be going on but I don't think it is right hmm yeah I mean I noticed that that my ij's are always the first to go in my collection you know I don't know if that's just coincidence or what but they seem to be you know more in tune with you know there's a slight breeze coming in the room and they're just like okay go time you know most of my stuff is either ij ij crosses I don't have any pure coastal or pure jungles that I bred so I I'm probably not the best one to ask when it comes to I get a timeframe on who goes first gotcha yeah yeah that's right you're growing your other projects up right yeah mostly most of my projects are still pretty young other than the ij and the albino stuff that I had yeah that's cool there was I see questions popping like crazy over here so I'm just gonna have to hit on it I'll go backwards Scott Reuben asked the questions how the hell have you been able to say so focused on Morelia how have I I don't know man they're just the most awesome species of snake I mean you know that genius of snake to me it's the epitome of why pythons are cool I really for me they are I guess it goes back to my experience with you know when I first got back into reptiles back in 2003 my idea which I've talked about on the show was is that I never had an idea of wanting to be a breeder that never even entered my mind you know to me it was just about keeping animals and observing them and and just like you know for lack of a better word I guess having it as a pet you know it's not a pet like you would have a dog but you know to go into my you know reptile room and have naturalistic setups and see the animals doing what they're supposed to do to me that was really what what everything was about and I had such a crazy group of animals I mean I had berms I had African rocks I had retics I had balls I had borneos I had water dragons bearded dragons Nile monitor man what else who trying to think what a carpet pythons I remember when I first got my I guess my first carpet python was from a pet shop and I remember not really ever hearing about them or seeing anything with them and I went and bought a what was what they were calling a jungle but you know now that I know it's clearly with some kind of cross it actually looked like a carp andro but wasn't as crazy looking it was like one of those dirty dark carp andros you know what I mean then that's kind of like you know what this snake looked like I you know I just thought that it was the coolest coolest snake and for some reason I was drawn to that I think the head like it had that real big carpet python head I think that that's one of the coolest features about carpet pythons I mean when you see an adult carpet with that big chunky head and you know IJs in particular I think have the chunkiest of all the heads you know they have like big big heads and and you know it's just very impressive and I like how IJs have like that if you look at like the the the lips you know all around the the labial scales and the pits and all it's like as white and then a lot of times it'll have like black markings kind of like what you see in a bowling spython you know and I don't know just very very impressive but anyway in working with all these different kind of reptiles like turtles and you know I've worked with venomous I've worked with with all these different things and to me carpet pythons were men I mean I tell that story before about how when I had to move I took all my snakes to my parents house and I had to put them in their basement and basically I had them set up with a hot spot but obviously the ambient temperature was cooler you know and I didn't really have a way to heat it up and the carpet pythons man they just thrived they friggin loved it you know it was like you know business as usual other things got you know like berms they respiratory infections and you know I was just it was just a mess but you know so the carpet pythons kind of stayed and I kind of filtered them out and then you know as I sort of moved into the breeding part of it you know when I started listening to like reptile radio and stuff like that I I this whole new world of you know breeding was opened up like I didn't even know what a morph was or what het het meant or anything like that I remember going to a to a reptile show it was when they had the NARBC in Philly you know and I went there and I was like what the hell does that mean you know I'm I'm asking my dad like what is het het mean he's like I have no idea you know so I asked somebody and they're like oh it carries a gene and I just remember going what what do you mean and then you know somebody explained it to me and I was like oh okay but uh you know and then and then listening to those guys kind of you know it kind of opened up my eyes to this whole new world and for a while I was thinking about doing ball pythons just did you know I was breeding because they were kind of the hot thing and I don't know I stumbled upon doing research I stumbled upon Anthony Capinero's site and then I found that IJ Jag Bullwinkle and everything changed from there I think I think to answer Scott's question a little more directly I think one of the important things when you're doing gonna be a breeder is that you have to have sort of a focus if you're just gonna be a keeper and you know keep reptiles you know get get whatever you whatever your heart desire is but I think it's I think it's both good and bad I don't I don't know what you think Chris but I think it's good and bad because the good part is is that you're focused on something and you're gonna make advancements in that species with selective breeding or you're gonna you're gonna take that those you know I think of guys like I don't know you think of people that breed boas and they've been doing it for years and years and years like Vin Russo or Tom Burke or any of those guys and you see what they've done and where they've taken boas to a whole new level I mean when you to me when you look at carpet pythons we're still we're not even close you know I mean in my eyes I think jungles have been selectively bred but there's so much more potential in all the other subspecies and species I just think that that you know that that kind of that kind of idea keeps me focused and keeps me going but the bad side of it is that sometimes you sort of get you sort of paint yourself into this world into this box and I was thinking about you know things to talk about tonight and one of the things that you know has has rekindled in me is that spark that I had when when I first saw you know a snake or when I first had an experience with keeping a snake and you know that's something that you're forever chasing you're forever chasing that spark you're forever chasing that that feeling that you had of that excitement when when you know the snake ate or the you know the snake shed or you know it's like oh my god it's drinking out of the bowl I can't believe it this is crazy you know and I think I think that at least for me it's like you're always trying to get that feeling back again and I think for me I've well when you sort of live in this world where you're just sort of you know you're so focused on Morelia or carpets or chondros or whatever it is you sort of that that takes up all your time and that takes up there's only so many hours in a day and you sort of lose sight of some of these other cool species that are out there you know I think that I think that people you know that are into carpets probably are into Australian pythons as well and they're probably familiar with Australian pythons but I just got this book today Australian dragons I didn't even know that there was all these you know different species of dragons you know to me on my mind's blown that that that's even real and I know that probably sounds crazy to some people like maybe they know that but to me that's that's something new and when I'm looking at those things we're talking to new people about those species that I don't know about I feel that that that fire ignite again and I get excited and you know and and I won't keep all those different kind of species but it's cool to learn about them because I think when you learn about other species you can apply what you learn to other species to species that you keep but I do think that it's important to have like one of those offshoot projects or something that you keep that's it doesn't even have to be something that you breed necessarily but something that you keep that's sort of this this offshoot or something different than what you do you know and it should be what you like man I mean if you like water pythons then you should breed water pythons it shouldn't be like just because this is the cool thing to do or not do if you like some kind of you know little skanker if you like frogs or whatever it is man you know you my famous saying you do you boo you know but I don't know if that answers the question I don't know if you have anything we think that NPR drinking came back what do you think about that what's your thoughts on staying focused oh well if I had I don't I'm kind of limited on space right now so I it's kind of forced me to stay focused on Morelia although I do have a few other projects I have a group of stints in but they don't take how much space at all and I have the few animals I've had for a really long time that I just can't bring myself to to sell off or get rid of like my urinastics and my bulk hypheners I've had for 15 years now but that's all but the lack of space definitely keeps me focused on one type of animal if I had more room I'd probably get a little out of control because before I moved to where I am now I had a little bit of everything I was keeping I had the ball python I had the urinastics then I got big into dark frogs so I had a big group of dark frogs and a 40 gallon tank and then I had a group of leaf-tailed geckos I had to okay geckos it seemed like I was at the point where I didn't focus on any one thing but I go to a reptile Expo and then I'd have to buy something different like I can never buy another animal to pair up with something I always kept buying something different because I really I didn't care about breeding men but now that I'm more into the breeding side of it I've definitely had to limit what I buy to add to the collection if I ever do have more space I would definitely add there's so many more animals that I want to add to it and it's stuff that that's so random that I probably never even reproduced that I just want like I talk to you about it before I really want egg eating snakes right I have no idea why I've just I've always liked them I've worked with them in the past work they're really interesting but I don't know if I wanted to vote space to them when I could add another carpet python to the collection because I'll be breeding the copper pipe so I know you you're like set on morale you're like that's your favorite but I would definitely like to add more like I said it's just a space that keeps me from adding more animals yeah I think I think with me it's probably I'm probably in the same boat as you so I think that what has get that spaces is is definitely a thing with me because honestly I probably if I had unlimited space and you know could do it I probably would really focus on keeping a variety I think my focus would move to Australian reptiles for some reason I'm just drawn to them I get I get excited I get jazzed up I you know it doesn't even have to be a carpet python but to me when I'm learning about an Australian reptile I'm learning about a carpet python because to me they're one and the same they you know a lot of the reptiles that you would learn about could be prey for carpet pythons they you know and you can learn a lot about a carpet python but why by what it's eating what the you know the habits of that are if you know that this species is you know is hatching out or or even if it's a mammal or whatever is available in abundance at one time then you know that that you know then the carpet python is going to be eating in I don't know there's a lot to learn you know but but I think that you can get stuck in that world and you don't realize what else is out there you know I think that that you always have to keep your your ear and your eye open I think that's I think that's one of the cool things about reptile podcast there's a whole bunch of them out there and when you listen to something that for instance I've been listening to a lot of past episodes of gecko nation radio simply because you know I'm curious about I don't see myself being you know getting leopard geckos or anything like that but I'm just curious especially with when they're talking about you know Australian geckos there's some really cool like the leaf gecko leaf tail geckos in Australia I think they're just they're really cool looking you know and how cool would it be just to have one in your you know a natural setup type of thing I don't know so yeah I blew tongue skinks I know I think which is what the episode was about and I think Scott had answered this is Scott Reuben I think he asked something about which ones which species or subspecies have I considered and why I think I like the northerds when it comes to blue tongue skinks I think my favorite is the shinglebacks but they're not really too available apparently they're like all over down in Australia but here in the States they're they're kind of rare but I don't know I really kind of you know Zach's for years have been trying to get me into blue tongue skinks and I fought him every step of the way you know every step of the way I've been telling him no no no no not for me man not for me and it wasn't until I watched his how I watched his took care of his reptiles when he was away in Denmark and going over there and seeing his skin collection which is pretty amazing by the way really made me take a step back you know and then maybe think about it because they are cool reptiles man they're really neat I don't know I always kind of didn't like the whole you know short legs and fat and stocky but that's kind of like me you know what I mean so I don't know so I don't know Northern's are the ones that kind of just stuck out to me as the ones that I kind of liked so have you ever thought about wanting a blue tongue skink? No I'm actually trying to cut down on the lizards right now I just I don't have the time to to take care of lizards they're definitely more high maintenance and then the snakes I've also never really had an interest in in skinks they just don't they just don't do it for me yeah I can understand that man because I like I said I was kind of in the same boat I know that Zac had a had a group of I don't remember the species but they were you know they're like little tree skinks and he had like they were a lot like little monitors man they were really kind of interesting and kind of cool but that's my fear with them is the maintenance that's involved you know for so long I've been a snake keeper and breeder and you know it's it's a little bit different when you get into lizards for sure that have to be taken care of on a daily basis and the UV and and all that but from what I understand from what Zac's telling me and his setup is that you know skinks are super easy man if you don't want to leak cat food or dog food or whatever he has and you know it's like it's like 30 bucks a bag and a bag less than a month and you know no UV they're in Iraq it's kind of it kind of simple it's kind of a simple setup I mean you would you would keep them like a snake and not really know the difference but you know from what I understand but you know at some point I guess he'll come on and he'll he'll talk a little bit more about that but I don't know so yeah you know I was I also have been thinking a lot about you know one of the questions that I was going to ask people when they talk about the hobby or the or the reptile community or whatever I think that over the past like maybe three or four weeks I've kind of taken myself away from Facebook and haven't really been posting much or looking at things and I mean I I do the you know like Facebook messaging and that's about the extent of my Facebook presence and there's two reasons for that one I've just been spending more time in my reptile room and I think that if I had to choose between talking to to keyboard cowboys online or or spending with reptiles I'm gonna pick the reptiles man you know I mean and I've been a lot a lot happier with it you know it's it's almost like I don't see drama anymore but I don't know if it's because it's just kind of a quiet time and there's no drama going on or I'm just not paying attention to it so one of the things that I've been thinking about is you know the question that you have to ask yourself is what have you done to make the community or business or ever you want to look at it better what have you done what what what have you contributed to make this a better group for everyone out there and when I think about that I think about young kids and I've always been excited when I when I talk to young kids about reptiles and I've done it a couple times that like my nephews and nieces schools and stuff like that and you know whenever they have a party or something you know we take a couple reptiles and show them and I think that that's important and I don't know I just think that you know if I have a couple different kind of reptiles and you know I can take them and educate people about them I think that that's a good thing so my mind has sort of been going in that direction as of late because it's but you know the reptiles are so much cooler when there's no drama involved you know I don't know is is that have you found that the drama is still out there or am I am I my mission definitely out there right I'm like you also I haven't I haven't been to many of the groups recently or I may be posted here in there but I haven't been hitting the groups as much as I used to I mean it's it's hurting me too because I haven't posted any of my animals for sale or updated update itself or gotten my name out there as much as I should I just need to break from it also and it's not just the reptile stuff I just need to break from the Facebook thing in general yeah I mean you know it becomes it's like one of those things where you're sort of I don't know you're sort of like in this world and you don't really pay attention to what's going on right in front of you and and I don't know if I'm having my get off my lawn you little kids moment where I'm just like you know fighting technology every step of the way or whatever it is but I just feel that you know sometimes you have to take a step back and look what's going on in the present and not really focus on you know your phone or you know that kind of thing but so so I'm kind of with you I've come been kind of doing that with life as and the same with doing that in with my reptiles and I've been much happier you know I'm reading I'm reading all these different books I basically bought the whole group of guide to Australian reptiles and I'm knee deep in that I got a book today was the complete guide to reptiles of Australia it's the fourth edition looks pretty cool I'm just getting ready for my trip man you know I just got to make stuff happen you know push yourself out of your comfort zone and and and just do it you know so well on the topic of books if you get a chance you should pick up that uh that bush master book I can't remember the full title I did oh you have it I didn't get it yet but I did order it that is it good yeah it's a good read I'm probably about three quarters of the way through um good definitely some husbandry in there that's gonna make you scratch your head when you read it that's always good that's awesome so yeah well I'm gonna I had it there was another question that on the thread that I posted up I'm gonna I'm gonna hit this so I think we talked about iJs and what's the best stuff to work with pairings morse etc I don't know I think there's the you know I'm gonna say this about that question and I don't know if you'll agree with me Chris but I think you will that iJs I think like I said earlier have I have a lot of potential and if you can see that potential you can you and you're willing to put in the time I think you could be rewarded very highly for your efforts just by producing some stellar animals and you know it's a shame that that iJs sort of have been I don't know sometimes I think like they're sort of the stepchild of the carbon python world you know it's kind of like it's an iJ but I think that there's tons of potential there and I think that we haven't even scratched the surface you know we're talking when you're talking about an exam at Granite and you're not even and it's not even selectively bred and it looks the way it does I mean come on that's just that's just insane so I'm sure in the in our conversation we'll be talking more about iJs and then Hashem he had a question so you got quite a few snakes in a full-time job and as well as other stuff that you do how do you find time give us an average day a week in the E.B. world who well I work about let's say my job I think I work 60 70 hours a week maybe and I have a wife and I have a collection I think my collection is maybe 150 plus animals and I do the show so I don't know I'm very I'm very scheduled oriented so I kind of just kind of stay on the schedule I kind of I've broken my my room up into sections and that puts me in my reptile room basically every day and I find that when I do it in a smaller section I get to spend more time looking at the animal it's not just the whole type of like you know pull the snake pull the tub out change the paper change the water put the snake back in there you go type of thing I'm able to have more interaction I guess to see to make sure that the animal is doing good you know take it out for a minute and handle it look at it and sometimes I weigh them and you know all that kind of stuff so yeah I do that basically I do that when I come home from work I get up at 4 every morning 4 a.m. and then drive for I think my takes me about an hour or so to get the work hour and a half and you know I'm listening to podcasts to do a lot of recording ideas and stuff isn't driving you know in my phone which helps with the show and ideas that pop in my head when I'm listening to other podcasts and stuff like that what else that's basically it I mean you know I come home I run to the gym real quick I come back I take care of my snakes and usually takes me I spend about maybe maybe an hour an hour and a half in the reptile room every day and I don't know it doesn't seem to be too overwhelming but maybe that's because I have all snakes you know do you do you have trouble juggling juggling your snakes in your life and all that um baby seasons a little rough but I try to have a I have a system down now where I'll only work in my snake room on my days off and I usually split it up where I do like babies one day and I'll do my adults another day cleaning from my adults isn't that tough because I have naturalistic setups so okay I quickly spot clean I have a pretty good system with cleaning water bowl so I think I could blow through all that stuff really quick it's just sometimes I do it all day at work so the last thing I want to do is come home and deal with animals so yeah that's usually how I spent my days off but now that I have a system down it's not that bad yeah I think that's probably the key you know for a while I did have I did struggle with it I did have you know I would try to do my snake room all in one day and you know it that would be my day off you know I have off one day a week and it was you know you would spend it just cleaning for eight hours and then you know I don't know it just when when I was doing it like that it felt like that it wasn't enjoy it wasn't it wasn't enjoy I didn't enjoy it and I had to change you know so I do a lot of things along those lines like with water bowls I use like the plastic cups is insert so I don't even I don't clean a water bowl they just get tossed you know that's it I used I used to do it that way but I had big I had snakes knocking them over and baby making a mess so it was just easier I bought a big case of small crock dishes and now I just you know I clean them every time I do water changes I soaked the water dishes in a bucket of bleach and then refill on that that works better for me than having to deal with the disposable Valley cups I thought the disposable Valley cups would work but I didn't like it yeah yeah I mean I try I find that when I use the 16 ounce that's what I use when I use those for baby carpets they also use it as a perch so they sort of verge like up on the lid and they're not able to tip them over because they can't tip over in their tub so it kind of worked out so I don't know but yeah I mean you know coming up with the systems and I think that's that's really kind of important however you do it but you don't you don't want it to be to where it becomes you know work and you don't enjoy it because then you're not gonna want to do it you know that's I think that's just the keys that you know really really enjoying it you know I feel like that's my sort of my getaway my my relaxation my I guess in a way like you're my yogurt or something like that something that you know puts me straight again you know I go in the room and kind of just zone out and then it's then I'm good to go so and I have to let it interfere with with other things sometimes I'll put the animals on the back burner for the day to go do something else just to get away from it so that when I do get back to it it you know feels good to do it rather than sometimes it all it feels like you know it's a chore and and you're stuck in a room dealing with it rather than out enjoying yourself so I do try to balance that and then my you know outside life - yeah yeah luckily for me I have an awesome wife and you know the way we have it situated and everything kind of works out that you know I think the only day that I don't go in my reptile room really to do any cleaning or maintenance or anything is Wednesday kind of said beside that day is you know hands off you know and then on like Tuesday all my day off like I'll wake up early and I'll go in there and work and then by the time that she wakes up you know I'm already done so that's never a problem but yeah so I hope that answered that question but you know when you put with doing the show now that's a whole nother that's a whole nother that's a whole nother thing because that takes quite a bit of work and it doesn't seem like it would but it really does I mean you know contacting the guest getting the outline together of the questions and what's the topic's going to be and you know as much as me you know and sometimes sound like knuckle heads trying to know what the subject is about and do some research on it and you know it's not an easy feat but I think it's important man I think that you know I think if we're helping just one person out there I think that the job is done I think that you know getting people exposed to some of the people and that breed these awesome animals it's really important so I don't know that's why we do yeah I don't know how you guys do it every week because just for me to come on today try to the show go no man what the hell are they gonna talk about you know I don't need to be honest a little bit right yeah I was actually talking to a friend of mine just prior to calling and I told her I said I'm calling into this show and I told her there was a guest on the path and I was explaining to her the whole thing with the calendar contest I was showing her the pictures and she was like oh don't worry you'll be fine you're you know it's something you're passionate about I started laughing hysterically because you said passionate yeah yeah I know right I sort of like kind of steered away I don't know if people have noticed but I've kind of steered away because it's like I started listening to to people in the reptile world and that's like it's overused buzzword that's like I get it you know and it's kind of like I'm trying to think of a different way to say it you know but I don't know sometimes I think that that word is if that makes sense I don't know if I'm making sense on that one but it just seems like everybody says it you know I'm passionate about this you know but I am a very passionate guy man I wear my emotions on my sleeve and sometimes I try to bite my lip and try not to let my emotions get better of me but you know there are times where you know I've had my classic grants where I get on my soapbox and you know say my piece and you know then get off but I think that's just because I'm getting to be a grumpy old man you know what I mean like you get to that age where it's just like yeah it's a grumpy old guy but you know look they're doing shots now because I'm saying we're saying passion you know just keep shooting it I got it did I just get everybody to drink because I broke it up yeah good job good job for sure so yeah let me see what else I have on my list here to talk about let me get through these questions real quick I was scrolling up I think Scott Eepers sent me if sent me a couple on weekend hang on them oh there was a there was somebody talking about the labyrinth I J yeah I don't think I think we'll ever be proved out man just my two cents from talking to people that that that have worked with that project I mean that there was a bunch of those animals that hatched out will leery hatched them out they were passed on to multiple breeders and nobody has been successful with them so I don't know they just don't want to breed I guess I don't know what the deal is but I think the only one that was successful of reading them was Yasser who bred it to a jag because I think I think when he first came back on to Facebook which I haven't seen him on Facebook in a long time but when he came back on the Facebook he had posted up one for sale yeah I had actually looked at that animal I don't even remember how it how a conversation started but at some point he had offered it to me for sale but because there was jag in and I didn't take it right yeah and I kind of like I kind of did the same thing and it was kind of like you know going back and forth on like oh man did I that I make a mistake with that because if it's even if it's across more if he can still you know it will never be pure IJ but it's still cool looking snake but I don't know I think that that's kind of a dead-end project but you know hey maybe people approve me wrong you know so let's see what else do we got the lab with IJ and PR drinking game oh hey Scott's got some egg eater snakes if you want them there you go single man and I know some anacondas I thought there was some questions here maybe I missed it oh here we go yeah I thought there was it who Scott says do you anticipate the Lacey Act will be expanded to further limit trade and if so should a proactive approach be taken to prevent its damage to the industry what area of the industry could be best improved huh okay do I anticipate the Lacey Act will expand further animals I think I don't I think that that animal rights groups ultimate goal is to end the pet trade altogether I think that the downside to that type of thing is is that so I think of my story back when I was six years old and I was telling this on GTP keeper the other day I was six years old and I would go into the natural history museum in Philadelphia I was going to see the dinosaur bones because I just was I was for lack of a better word passionate at that young age about dinosaurs I mean I had dinosaur books dinosaur models you know anything dinosaur related I was in and I was going to see the dinosaurs and I remember when I was a I remember when I was a kid watching like nature shows with my dad and I remember seeing like Marina Guanas to me that was the one it seemed like every nature show had like Marina Guanas in it I don't know why I was like Komodo dragons and Marina Guanas you know you never saw like any other kind of reptiles maybe I was watching the wrong shows I don't know but and to me they look like dinosaurs you know and I just thought that they were really really cool so I go to this museum and the dinosaur exhibit is closed and it really bummed out you know because I was so looking forward to it well they're doing one of those animal exhibits where they're taking out animals and showing you and telling you a little bit about each animal that they take out well they pull out a ball python and you know I'm amazed I'm just like blown away so they asked you know somebody wants to come up so they they can hold the snake I raised my hand and of course my mom was not excited about it because she didn't want to have to hold the five-foot long wall python but you know I was in 7th heaven I go up and I what the hell you playing Pac-Man or something a lot are you playing Pac-Man or something I just hear doo doo doo doo I put my phone on speaker phone and then I was trying to take it so I didn't think you could hear that so yeah so I go up I hold the ball python I'm amazed I'm blown away I'm just from that point forward snakes were it for me at that young age you know and I remember my dad bringing home a garter snake for me and I remember just staring at that thing I had it in one of those little critterkeeper things and I just would stare at it for hours and hours probably stressing the hell out of the poor thing but I just would watch it and watch it move and like I couldn't I couldn't understand how it moves without legs I'm like it doesn't have legs how does it move you know and just like being so young and just to be an amazed and you know always you know like what I was talking earlier about keeping that that first initial spark going about what got you in the reptiles and like your forever chasing that and that wonder and amazement you know all that kind of stuff so how did this turn into the lacy I don't even know how I got onto this I'm like all twisted around help me out here so I guess what I was saying is is that oh I know I know what my point was my point is is that in caring for then snakes and led me to care about animals which led me to care about the environment and I think that even though is it I mean we could debate back and forth on whether it's right or wrong to keep animals in captivity or not in captivity I mean you know I can I can definitely see both sides of that coin you know but I think at the end of the day it's doing more good than it is bad but I don't think that animal rights groups think that way and I think that they think that we should not interact with animals at all unless it you know I you know I don't think they think we should eat them they don't think that we should keep them we don't think you know none of that and which I mean I don't know how you feel about this Chris but that's kind of your job so I'm sure that you feel very strongly about you know that that whole type of thing and I'm sure that you know you see on a daily basis the good that that animals in captivity do and you know and then I and then I wonder about you know on the other side of that I mean if you're keeping these species in captivity it's real good that you want to save the animals but if you don't save the environment you're not going to save the animals if they don't have an environment and what the frig is the point so yeah I mean you can talk about saving the pandas all day long or polar bears or whatever you want to save but if they don't have you know the the environment then what the hell is the point so I don't know I think that overall like it really changed my outlook on the world and the environment that that we're in and really opened my eyes so I think that if it had that effect on me I'm sure it had that effect on many other people and I think that we should probably do more as a reptile community to to to do that I think that a lot of times I think the thing that hurts us the most is that we get caught up in this drama bullshit about you know you know I think we just don't for lack the bill says it the best tolerance I mean we really have to learn to tolerate each other just because somebody's keeping things different doesn't mean that they're necessarily wrong and just because somebody wants to try something different doesn't mean that the necessarily wrong I mean I think about you know we talk about the I'll give you my own experience so you know when you follow a cookie cutter type of approach to keeping animals and you think that you're that you're going to get results they're not cakes you're not baking a cake man you can't open a recipe book and say step one and then at the end you're gonna get this this thing you have to pay attention to what's going on and I think in my first year second year of breeding I learned that lesson very hard because I thought that if I approach it this way it's gonna work but it didn't because I'm not in the same spot that that person was in and I think we try to say it a lot of times on on the show that we just try to talk about how I think that's why we asked that question over and over again you know like how do you keep and how do you breed because I want people to be exposed to the different ways of doing things and sometimes I mean there are basic things that you have to do in order to be successful with breeding a species but I think that you know you have to be able to look at the animal that you're keeping and adapt your conditions to make that animal as comfortable as can be if that makes sense so I know me and you Chris we keep completely opposite I think you keep varied like warm but you're successful you know yeah I have I was just gonna say but I don't know anyone that keeps their animals similar toy I do it in terms of temperature in my eye let and a lot of it is either I can't control what happens in that room I mean I can a little bit you know like I haven't I put an act conditioner in there for really hot summer days but that the room where my animals is it's all windows there's no solid wall so it acts like a greenhouse so in the summer it gets really hot and in the winter it gets really cold but I've kept my animals in there for now five years and every single breeding season I've been really successful I've never lost an animal and I've never had our eyes so for me it worked and I don't know will work with somebody else I you know I don't know and I try to always buy young animals so that they have they could just you know that they seem to acclimate better right but yeah I keep myself so much different than how you do yeah and yet we both have success you know so I think that it's really kind of important to kind of look at that so if for instance if you go on the internet and you're saying that this is how you keep your animals and then I go on and I'm like you know you're an asshole you know I mean what is that proof I mean your your animals are not sick and you're producing they're reproducing so obviously in order to reproduce they have to be healthy I don't know it just it just seems foolish and silly to me that we just get caught up in this this bullshit of of it's just nonsense you know I mean oh I can if I listened to everyone that had a problem with how I kept animals I mean just the fact that I keep my animals on natural substrate I can't believe the problems I have the fact really oh yeah everyone everyone says everything's gonna get impacted on killing my animals and taking a chance with their life I give up yeah so yeah like like you said I do me you know yep and and you're successful so yeah and and Darren was one of the questions that he posed is what do you propose the solution is for dealing with the growing number of keyboard warriors honestly I think you just ignore it yeah you just ignore them the problem is is that you know those people in particular I think I think in this is just not in the reptile world I think that this is just in in the world in general I mean you know I think those people you know they don't have a voice they don't and and now they have you know now they can be the voice all the sudden and they're gonna just they're gonna let you know what they think and I think that that argument and I get why I understand because you got new people that come in and they and they read this kind of stuff and you know they think that that's what it is and it really isn't and it's important to sort of set people in the right direction so I mean nothing's worse than if you're pointed in the wrong direction and you have you know you you totally have unsuccessful you know unsuccessful keeping or breeding or or whatever it would be and you're totally turned off to the whole thing and you just you get out you get you get rid of your animal you like oh no this ain't for me man this is this bullshit whereas if you would have had somebody sort of steer you in the right direction you possibly you know you could have had success and when you have success I mean come on man you can't tell me I'm I still think another milestone for me is when the first time that you hatch watch an egg hatch in your place it's just like it's a create it if you see that you're locked in man you're locked in that's it man you're locked in it's you've now become a lifer in my opinion you know and unless unless the bullshit becomes too much and then I see people get out because they can't handle that part of it and I don't blame a lot of people they're just like you know what screw this and maybe they keep a couple reptiles still but they're just get out of the community and you don't really know what they are or what they're doing or anything like that so I don't know man I think my my thing would be to ignore them shut them down kick them out of groups don't pay attention you know I mean you know I just just like I don't know and I don't know if that's the right thing to do or not but I just kind of I don't very rarely do I get involved in that kind of drama bullshit and especially now I'm just done with it I just I can't be bothered with it and I don't know if you know those guys are down in Australia so maybe you know the reptile hobby is kind of young for those guys so maybe they're going through those growing pains I don't know but I think once people start getting into just doing it for money or like chasing this you're basically it's it's ego driven you know I mean that's what it really comes down to you want to be the world's first to do this or that you know good like you take something like a helmet hair scrub do you know I have a helmet or scrub and honestly I've kind of like really kind of taking my focus off of breeding them and really just keeping them and if they breed great but it's not like a it's just a beautiful animal to me you know and I don't know I it's not something you know where you have other people that I gotta be the first guy to do this you know yeah yeah I don't know I mean I guess I understand it to a certain you know because I think we all have egos to a certain extent but I don't know when you let that take over I think that's when you run into to trouble and problems if that makes sense you know I don't know what do you think what do you think how you you think that there's too many egos in the in the reptile reptile game or what yeah but I had an ego isn't necessarily a bad thing but I think it I think the bigger problem is the being able to be like anonymous and just you know post and say what you want and and trash everybody for doing what they do but like you said that that's sound everywhere and you just have to be able to ignore it I mean you could go on any forum whether it's reptile related or news related and just seeing some of the comments that people post and you'll never see it under their real name so it's not even worth giving them the attention they want and people always do and it's crazy to see some of the things that turn into fights over it yeah that that's when you just I mean it's so easy to just block ignore them and I think the less attention to give them the better though they'll just go away on their own yeah yeah because that's kind of what they're feeding off of it's kind of feeding off that attention type of thing so yeah I don't know let's see what else do we have on the agenda for tonight let's see so one of the things that that I wanted to talk about as far as my season goes and what I got paired or planned or however you want to look at that my notebook is how it calls it the big the big book with the quill pen and all that stuff but we're gonna have enough time to get through this book I don't know I don't know so what I've what I've been trying to do and I haven't been a hundred percent successful yet but I think I've I got this idea from two people I saw Ralph Davis do this and I saw Anthony Caponeira do this and the idea was is that I wanted to kind of keep a breeding diary on my website obviously the first couple years I had a lot of growing pains and as far as keeping it up to date and and actually being able to update it and and and you know it can be quite a chore I think this year I'm gonna have it nailed down to where I think I should be successful and basically what I do is I put all the pairings on the page and then I just walk you through the step process so you can see especially if you're gonna buy an animal from say that clutch you'll be able to see exactly what happened and how I did it and I also when you click on you know the animal you see the the pedigree and then I also put a thing when that when the clutch hatches and shows you the offspring animal and eggs you know all that kind of stuff so I'm trying to make it to where people can just go to my website if they want the lineage info and they want the all that kind of stuff it should be all right there so hopefully this year I'm gonna I'm gonna have better better luck with it I think the system that I have now it should be should be good I'm also working on I have a lot of the text done a breeding page so to speak how I approach breeding carpet bizons in particular and I just need pictures so like as I go through the season and we take pictures and of what's going on and and all the different steps that was also from a ball python breeder that Mark Mandek he has a website and basically on his website he has his approach to breeding and it sort of walks you through step-by-step Anthony Caponero's had something similar which I thought was just a I did you check out the breeding page when he had it yeah I actually that was what I base all my original breeding off of I printed all that information out I want to say I think Will Bird had something similar yep yeah he had like an article that he did I think and he had that up I think it was called propagating carpet python yeah yeah yep so yeah that's kind of the idea that's kind of what I'm shooting for so hopefully here we are I well my first clutch was in 2012 so you know here we are 2016 hopefully I got it nailed down but basically I break it up into a couple things I was kind of bummed out last year that for whatever reason my m-pen girl and m-pen male didn't go and when we when I say m-pen that stands for Michael Penel he's the guy that his business is python and a pear tree and Michael is very big into the pure subspecies of carpet pythons and he works with the line of carpet pipes our coastal carpets called that trace back to Lemke line bloodline carpets coastal I'm sorry coastal carpets and the beautiful animals beautiful beautiful animals I think what I did was is that I didn't have enough weight on the female I didn't feed her enough and I didn't feed the male enough and I saw some action but for whatever reason they didn't go and I think this is the other important part of trying to put this information up there and I thought you know you don't want to put it out there that I think a lot of times again I don't you don't want to be portrayed as an unsuccessful person but I think we're doing a disservice to the people that are just coming into it or trying to breed in a way that they they think that the breeders you know I'll take Owen for example so if Owen goes and like all he talks about and I'm not saying that he did this I'm just using this example all he talks about is the good things that happen with him and he never talks about the bad things well you're gonna think that Owen's the greatest breeder in the world and when you go and you try to breed and you run into these problems which we all do I mean if you breed snakes long enough or reptiles long enough or breed anything long enough shit if you breed people long enough you run into problems you know so you don't talk about that I don't know people seem to think well maybe I'm doing something wrong and sometimes maybe they're not doing something wrong it's just that's the way the cookie crumbles you know I mean that's just the way it goes so I'm gonna try to put the good the bad and the ugly in there you know and so people really see what the real deal is but anyway these end pens if I think back to the to the history of these animals I think I've said it a couple times on the show but back in '09 I was looking to pick up some coastal carpets and Michael had these you know striped coastal carpets that he was working on and they were beautiful I mean they were beautiful beautiful beautiful animals and I was too late to get them somebody else had already picked them up and that person ended up you know he grew he grew them up for a while and then he ended up selling them and he contacted me because he knew how much that I wanted those animals and I ended up getting that trio and I tried to breed her last year and I was unsuccessful now the one clutch that I did get from the other girl ended up going bad and I think that just because she didn't have enough weight on her which led me more to think about the whole cycle feeding approach that I do the the more and more that I think about I don't know life seems to be life in general needs to go through cycles to me it seems like you need a time where you know where it grows and a time where you you know you don't you you got to clean the system out so to speak and this again this could be total bullshit you know it could be me just making it up but this is just kind of things that I'm thinking about so I think that when the the snake goes through a time where you know it's allowed to sort of you know cleanse itself and clean itself out so to speak and you know you look at anything you know that even with people I mean the more calories that you eat the less you know it's sort of equates to years off your life so to speak so people that eat neat neat neat neat you know probably not going to live as long as somebody that you know doesn't watch as their calories so to speak and is real real observant of what they're eating and and such so anyway with with that girl in particular I don't think that she had enough and she did she did breathe she did produce she did produce a clutch the eggs were good for a little while she was she did have one egg that was stuck in her that I was able to get out was able to palpate out which was very scary because I think it was the year before Owen walked me through a problem when I had a caramel girl that I think I bred too young and she looked like she was just about on that on that verge you know if I took a chance and she ended up having one egg stuck in her luckily Owen was able to palpate it out I don't know if she'll be able to breathe again or not I don't know we'll see but that was that was a scary experience for sure so I added the food I started in June and they're really really pounded the food to these girls and to the male and you know hopefully I'll be able to get a clutch from them and the idea they have like these lavender colors and they're just they're just beautiful beautiful beautiful snakes and there's nothing special about them and probably you know people won't be banging the door down to to get them but I don't know man it's I'm pretty excited about that that pairing and then the following year I have a girl that I picked up from Eric Hernandez who has a similar look but unrelated and hopefully I'll be able to out cross to to that girl and you know keep that selective breeding going because they kind of have this similar color and pattern and the one girl she I swear she looks like she could pass for like a jag with some of the way that her you know how reduced her pattern is so there's that and then the other coastal pairing that I'm pretty excited about is I picked up in in 09 I picked up this crazy looking coastal that I got from Jason bailin and it reminds me of it's got like a fishnet pattern but for whatever reason it reminds me of like a diamond like a gamma jack but not yellow like that it's more of a red and more of a bone color anyway this animal was produced from he had this pairing that he was calling it tiger jag sib to a tiger jag sib yeah I know that bad word sib so tiger jag sib to a tiger jag sib and he produced these amazing I mean they're amazing I have a few of them animals and I think when I was talking to him in Tinley I was telling him about this pairing because I have a red jag that I picked up from Luke Snell and I'm breeding him to her and he was telling me that when he did that he did a similar pairing and that's where he hatched out those red coastal that almost look albino you know what I'm talking about no I don't think I haven't seen that no yeah they're pretty they're pretty crazy looking I'll have to send I think the one picture might be his avatar on Facebook his profile pic but amazing amazing coastal so I'm hoping that something happens with that I think I think if I just produce more coastal that look like her and keep refining that look I think people would be blown away every time I show that snake to people they're just like what the hell is that you know and they can't believe that it's a coastal you know so again it just shows me the potential that these animals that you know coastals and IJs and inlands that there's a lot of potential there to be worked with so you know that's as far as my coastal stuff goes we talked about the IJ stuff and then I have a whole bunch of crazy morphs and carp you know carpet crosses and such I'll tell you one that I'm super excited about is a caramel heck granite to a caramel jag heck granite I think that's gonna be pretty cool I know that's blasphemy to you to you as an IJ guy no I have some of that stuff here oh that's right you have Jack crosses I forgot yeah so I don't know and there's something about the way that those animals look I think they're just they're just crazy let me see if I can if I don't know if I have a picture of that in my phone here let me see if I can push it up on the on the thing there but um I don't have it damn it yeah I was gonna well this is the here it is I'm gonna post it up over in the the chat but this is a caramel jag heck granite and just that look alone with that on it kind of reminds me of those orange pepper coastal jags that Australia has but it's just an amazing animal and to think that if you could get granite and caramel and have it be a super caramel and man that's gonna be crazy so and then put jag into it like granite jags I don't know about you obviously you must like granite jags because you're trying to produce them right yeah that's that's one of my my biggest upcoming projects that that I mean they've been around for a while now but it's something that I've personally wanted to produce and you know starting from beginning rather than just buying one and producing them I've put the time and picked all the animals that I wanted and and really started that project from the beginning that's awesome yeah that's a cool animal man you know yeah I don't know sometimes I worry about like if we get like like ballpark on where you're just putting like so many so many genes into one animal does it lose some you know what I mean like does it lose something you know and it's like this animal is valuable yeah that's six genes in it but then you look at an animal that has two genes in it and it's just like mind-blowing you know so which is better you know I think personally the one that looks better you know because you're looking at the ball python world now you look at something like you know say a banana I don't know a banana pinstripe or something like that you know where it's like a cool looking animal and then you look at something that's like you know a cinnamon-pied leper pinstripe and you're like okay but it's ugly you know and I guess yeah the breeding potential is there but I don't know I just just I don't I hope we don't get to a point where you can't just appreciate a granite jag it seems like we're sort of at that point with a jag you know remember remember when jags first came it were around and how excited everybody was just to produce a jag you know and it was like a jungle jag was like oh my god you know and then you're like it's like mind-blown and then you know it's like diamond jungle jag you're like oh my god I quit you know and now it's just kind of like yeah it's just now yeah that's cool you know so I hope that people don't lose that but yeah I hope to produce so what would come out of that what I would hope to produce out of that would be a super caramel granite jag that would be the ultimate goal so I don't know if the the morph gods will shine down on me and I will be blessed with such crazy animal I don't know if you'll be able to tell if it's a super car I'm like I don't even know how will you tell I don't know if you'll be able to tell or you won't tell I mean I don't know so should be interesting well I'm sure hold on to all of them yeah yeah I was talking to Nick about that the other day Nick Nick and me were talking on the phone for a while and when we were talking he was saying about he's like yeah man I don't really see you like putting your snakes out for sale is like you selling snakes I'm like yeah Nick I really haven't been pushing them and I'll tell you why the reason that I don't really try to push them and I kind of hold on to them is because I'm trying to get a feel for what they look like as they grow if that makes sense so when a customer comes to me at some point I want to be able to say this is the one you want you know or this one is not going to turn out that good or you know I don't think you can get that from anything but experience you know and I know it kind of sucks holding on to all these babies but at the same time I'm I'm learning trying to learn for myself you know and plus two part of it is I don't want one to slip away that yeah they regret you know so so that's that's one parent one parent then I'm going to be doing again I know you'll be excited about this is my albino yeah yes I think people that's probably the one thing that people have contacted me more about than anything else is a citrus tiger head albino I was trying to tell me to pry that animal out of your hands but I think I would have had to get you pretty drunk yeah I don't even know if that would work but maybe you know everything has a price but I don't know it seems to me right I was talking to somebody about this yesterday I had this albino I imported him from from Paul Harris UK Python and it doesn't really have any type of pattern per se very reduced pattern it almost looks it's very very white looking and that's the sire I call him Dex and the female citrus tiger was the first one that I purchased in 09 and she's maybe five feet that's it you know maybe and she you know some of the citrus tigers that I have have not retained their color some of them have you know dulled out a little bit but her in particular she has kept her color she is a bright yellow tiger and for whatever reason those two made magic I don't know I got really really really nice striped babies from them too which is weird because like I said that the albino doesn't really have you know any striping I don't know if they're striping in the lineage of that animal I don't know that you had it thinly is it from that Harry yep yep I think I had one baby that wasn't striped but the color was insane so I think that's gonna just for me the idea is to make a really high contrast type of albino and when I looked at if you look at again this is how I get ideas from this type of thing and maybe people will learn from this or not but this is where you can look at other other things and sort of get an idea I would look at albino ball pythons and you would have some that were very high contrast and then you would have some that were just you know just to explain albino ball python and I kind of followed that idea and hopefully the results will you know will be will be killer so I don't know that's kind of kind of what I'm after really really high contrast because I think with albino when you want especially with the stripe that's going down the back you want that to have contrast you know and I'm hoping that like with the different colors of the citrus tiger and the blushing that comes through that you know that will translate really nicely into an albino version so albino tigers really the end game with that so and I'm gonna breathe that same male to a different female so that I can have somewhat unrelated animals so that would be tiger head albinos for you know and to see I'm curious to see if this different female she's the high contrast tiger that Zach gave me that was produced produced by Ted Thompson and basically what he did is he bred high contrast Queensland coastal to a bale and tiger it's kind of similar to what happened with the citrus tigers but you know hopefully hopefully you know I get some cool results out of that as well so that that's a cool project and then I think my offspring maybe maybe not this probably in 2017 they might they'll be ready to to breathe so that should be cool what else let's see I'm trying this again this would be to the what would this be the third year I'm trying this pairing albino jag to examic to make double-heps no the male that is a proven male the male albino jag was one of Paul Harris's proven breeders that he used he's noro is hell man whoo that thing is loopy but he breathes and he eats and I don't know he's just he's just a loopy snake the female Xannic I've talked about this on the show before like the the head on a carpet when it when it when it's mature has that they just have a big bulky head and what I've seen with her in particular is that the head is not correct but the body is correct so that her size is right she's a big snake but the head wasn't right this year finally it seems like she's right on target I think again under feeding was an issue I think when I tried to do that whole ambient temperature thing part of the reason why it didn't work for me is because that's again that's a whole different approach and when you just shift your animals to what from what they're used to to something totally different we just shock their world and I think I just jack them all up by doing that which again you know learn from my mistake is that just because you hear somebody talking about something you know don't go and change everything that you're doing you know try to kind of look at things and see if you can take something away from it you know and you can apply it somehow to what you're doing if you if you're having success then I don't know if you really want to change anything but if you're having problems then that's when you sort of have to dissect stuff and check it out and see see what's what but yeah hopefully hopefully I get something from that some ultimate goal for that one is to make some snows I don't even know honestly if I want to produce snow jacks but I don't know maybe maybe they'll be cool we'll see I don't know if the jag will make it a whiter animal you know reduce the pattern or whatever but I don't know we'll be curious to see that's a long-term project you know because then you got to raise the double heads up and then it's what one in 16 or one in 32 odds to hit the snow you know so it's that's that's tough odds but hopefully something will happen with it another one that I've been trying for I tried last year and didn't have success is I got a granite jag and I'm putting him to a zebra head granite obviously the hopeful outcome would be a granite zebra jag I think one of my favorite looking animals is actually the zebra head granite again I think I've spoken to you about that before I love the zebra pattern or the ij color it's wild ain't it yeah it's crazy so yeah I was always a fan of the super zebra granite if you don't know what that is you can go over to mpr.com or any python radio.com and you can see scroll down you'll see what we're talking about Paul produced those and they're just pretty wild looking they look like a Macklot's python but I know some people will say well why don't you just keep Macklot's python well I do but it would be really cool to have a carpet python that looks like a Macklot's python so that's that so hopefully I'll be able to do something with her and get some something going there we talked about my ij parents one then another one that I'm excited about is I have a caramel head examic that's coastal and I'm gonna put him with a head examic female so possibly make some ghosts and ghost is a caramel and examic together so that would be that should be pretty cool a couple joint pairings that I have going on I have I have an ivory jungle that came from my curtain and this animal is just killer see if I can post it up in the group thing and me and Owen were doing this together and one of the ideas is we wanted to replicate back in the early days of carpet python breeding here in the States there was Benjamin there was a picture of Benjamin in the reptile magazine and he was this white-looking jag do you remember this Chris no I do not okay so I've probably seen it at some point and just don't remember yeah I'm sure you have you had to have it's a white it's basically a jag but it was white and it was crazy looking it was really really killer I think Owen has a picture of it somewhere so I'll have to to find it and post it up but anyway he has this ivory jag thing that he picked up this female and he had nothing to go with her so he we're doing a joint pairing and obviously the idea is to produce white jags so I don't know fingers are crossed for that that would be cool what else I want to talk about that I'm doing a a diamond jungle jag to caramel zebra I think putting that diamond in the zebras and then you know when you're doing crosses like that I think would be cool I'm doing a albino that same albino that I did the hets citrus tigers the bino citrus tigers I'm putting to an ocelot jag to possibly get some help to make eventually an albino ocelot jag I think that would be pretty cool because the patterns all crazy and put it in an albino version it'll be pretty wild again that'll be another long-term project so it's like I have all these long-term projects of you know I have a granite girl and I'm hoping hoping that I can breed the exotic ij to the granite girl to make some double heads there but I don't know we shall see and I think I don't know that's kind of like I think that's all my pairings tiger and a caramel I want to produce some caramel tigers of my own but I've kind of I kind of just you know make sure that I'm very selective with what I'm breeding and not just trying to throw something together and just for the sake of throwing something together you know I still have babies left over from last year so you know again you have that whole space issue you know what I mean you kind of that sounds like you're gonna have a lot of holdbacks if you're doing stuff with double heads too yeah yeah for sure you made it you know you have to start to look at the the collection and see what can go what what can stay you know and I kind of just like there's a lot of animals that I that I have in my collection that I don't ever intend on breeding but they're just cool looking carpets and you know like I have these diamond costals that are pretty cool and I thought that you know down the road if I'm doing crosses and such and it might be interesting to see what happens like I have a big group I know you have some two of those from Derek Roddy those niggini things that he has I think that they're okay now yeah I'm I'm kind of like I'm still kind of on the fence it's like what I would put to them you know like do you keep producing those nigginis because they're just wild or do you try to put some more stood on the sea like what will happen because I don't know man you know how variable those animals are and just in one clutch you know you got exam a looking ones jungle looking ones very tragic yeah yeah it's very cool and the girl the girl that I have is very exam-tech looking and right and she's she's up to side but I just I have no idea what to pull with her and I've been kept coming up to get a male from Derek and I kept saying no and I finally gave in and said I take it and Carrell got her got the mail so I missed out on that and I don't know she's I guess she's gonna sit here another season but like you said you know I kind of thought about just throwing a morph male with her just to see what pops out because who know yeah yeah it's kind of one of those things like you don't know unless you try and I guess you just kind of have to have an idea of you know and sometimes your idea of what's going to happen is not really what is even close to to happen and so I don't know should be interesting but yeah I have a I have a group of those and you know just things that I don't know I guess I guess I am a hoarder I guess I guess I have a problem I guess I do you know and then you know not to mention my other projects you know it's really cool when you have snake credit and snake credit is like when you when you've worked with somebody long enough and you you've bought enough animals from the snake you brought enough snakes from a particular breeder you eventually start to develop a relationship and most times you know the breeder will give you animals that you are not going to be paying for for you know a while and so today I got a box from mr mutton an inset box was a pair of het albino olive pythons so I'm pretty excited about that you know I I do like big snakes and I've I've gone back and forth on at first olive pythons were kind of like yeah okay but then I think I think seeing Owens really did it for me and also at the Baltimore aquarium they have this huge exhibit this Australia exhibit and when you go if you ever been there no I'm not oh man you're missing out Chris we're gonna have to take a trip one day all right but anyway they have this huge exhibit that's an Australian exhibit and in the exhibit they have this I don't know why it's like they have this huge river of water big pool of water type of thing and basically they have a water python and an olive python which I'm not sure why the olive python hasn't eaten the water python yet but they kind of have it together and when you see I think I have a picture of this somewhere but you see this olive python just out on this you know this rock beautiful setup the you know the it's it's just amazing and it's just chilling and you see all that iridescence and it's just a beautiful so I'm just I'm just excited to be working with them and I think I just I'm attending I'm pretty sure someone had a group of them there for sale yeah Jeff yeah Jeff Hartwig yeah Jeff Hartwig he works with those and Owen has a pair hopefully he's gonna breed him this year he's really he's really he's really excited about wanting to to breed those guys but yeah he he kind of really turned me on to those guys I really really kind of dig them I think the last thing that I wanted to hit on is you know what do you hope to pick up this year do you have any thoughts on what you hope to pick up this year oh well I actually I picked up a zebra male zebra at Tinley I actually I'm getting from Jason Bailey next white planes Expo so November 29th it should be picking them up but that's about it that I'm adding this year and I don't think I have anything else like probably the only other thing that I would get is citrus had albinos from you maybe some had Exantic IJ stuff since I have a male now but there's nothing else that I'm really interested in otherwise even even reptile wise nothing else floats your boat I just don't have room yeah yeah there's stuff I want but it's more of a room if you're now yeah I hear you yeah for me so I got the olive pythons that was something that I wanted to pick up this year there's two two species in particular that I would love to add to my group the number one would be walmas I really really want some really nice walmas I had them a while ago I let them go and I shouldn't have I really I really dig those snakes I have a male blackhead python I would love to add a female and just have it as a breeding project also I'd love to add pygmy pythons I really I really think that they're cool cool species and I can definitely make room for them hey yeah they don't take them no doubt rough scales they were one that I kind of do want but I you know I don't know it's probably gonna be in the following year I don't know maybe we'll see and I think a blue-toned skink of some some type would be what I would add this year I've really thought about ackeys you know that's something that I thought about them also and then seeing them a tiddly really made me think water rare earth had a pretty nice setup of them they're cool aren't I yeah they're really neat man you know and you get that monitor within a small package something that's something that's very doable but I'm in the process of researching them to really find out what they need and what the requirements are but I don't just want to jump into something like that but I think I think that that's on my shortlist is those ackeys I really would love to work with those usually when I get in that mindset that's usually probably gonna happen for better or worse you know so we'll see but yeah that's that's my hopeful pickups I'd really like to add some more antiresia at some point I know you're working with Stimson's right yeah I have a trio of Stimson's pythons and I was hoping to be able to pair them up this year but the female still has some growing to do so next season for sure I'll put them together cool yeah I'd like to add that I have a pair of children's pythons the female is proven but the male is too small yet the male is from Andy at pets at sunset so I don't know but then again I might be it may be it may be breeding size and I'm just thinking it has to be bigger because snakes are kind of small so I don't know I think I think that they're an underrated species I you do you like you like working with them antiresia oh yeah I like them a lot that's so docile too I mean like I pull mine out they they cruise around but they don't even you know they don't even strike they take up no space at all I have you know what would I to the 2012 to 2013 and they're still living in a sixth sport club okay that sounds like the males you don't even have to feed that much right even what couple of times a year and there's that where did you where did you pick yours up from where did they come from I have a pair from Eric Kohler and I have a female from Nick one okay cool very cool so yeah well we're an overtime now and here I thought that we wouldn't be able to fill an episode but apparently we did I don't know if it was people will take anything from it or be excited about it but we shall see so I appreciate you coming and hanging out with me and make sure I have somebody to bounce something off of yeah no problem and we got to talk IG yes without to tell Owen to take off a little more off that so that we could get some IJ saw squeezed in there you know when I'm better prepared we'll have to do a better outline about IJ's and the history and pairings and lines and all that kind of stuff so cool deal so yeah man I appreciate it and good luck this season yeah thank you too all right man I'll talk to you yeah I'll talk to you later all right alright so so yeah that was that was that was pretty awesome and look for for Chris posting up on Facebook when he has some puts up some of his animals available if you're looking to get some really killer IJ's for sure he would be one of the guys that I would recommend he has produced some really nice stuff I have one of his animals in my collection so and it is from GQ Hannibal that he was talking about during the show so cool stuff for sure let's see yeah I hope that that I was able to to talk about what I do and you know I know we sort of got off topic a little bit on certain things but maybe at another point we'll revisit and maybe we'll have a show where we talk about Owens animals and you know maybe another show where we talk about my animals I think some point next year we'll probably have a show where we talk about some some of the the data and whatnot that that we take down during the breeding season and try to share it with you guys so that you know you're able to take it and digest it and do whatever you like with it and hopefully it helps people to have you know better breeding success of their own you know this year I sort of know Owen said he was doing 27 pairings possible but I don't know I you know I don't really want to do that many because I just don't want to have animals that I can't take care of but Owen has a knack for selling animals probably because he is at every reptile show that's around here so that usually helps for sure so I said I'll just start wholesaling my animals to him so that he can sell I know what to do with them but yeah so in next week's episode we have the bones round table this should be should be an interesting episode for sure the bones python is one of those species of snake that's sort of a pinnacle for a lot of python keepers people you know there's a lot of misconceptions or misunderstandings about keeping bones pythons and there hasn't been a whole lot of breeding done in captivity so to speculate on you know the different types the ways to breed these things is silly because it seems there's a couple people that have been able to successfully breed of my feeling is is that it comes down to age I think that they probably take more more time to mature I think that they need to feel secure in the nest box if you multiple times we've had are already come on and he talked about he would find these animals way down in these nests and you know I don't know it just seems to think that maybe maybe that's a part of it but when you talk to a guy like Frederick he necessarily I'm not really sure if he even even had that he was able to have success so I don't know the jury is still out so to speak but he will it will be myself Owen Ari will be joining us Casper will be on Chad Chad Gray and Frederick Averback will all be on the bones round table and you know I like to talk about natural history and keeping and you know the breeding and all that kind of stuff and listen to those guys different approach UV important is you know higher basking spots cooler temperatures all those type of things what do they come into play I think that I think when it comes to an animal that you would have a play animal I think that bones pythons are sort of the one of those pinnacle species for sure they're just a beautiful animal they're they're they're a bit on the bigger side they're bigger python but beautiful beautiful animal I got the pleasure of actually seeing one in person for the first time in I cast and I was blown away just the markings and the iridescence and the colors and just that just an amazing amazing animal I think part of the other problem with bones pythons is the is defeating I didn't really get to hit on that too much but I really think that you know feeding we feed way too much in in herp to culture we overfeed like crazy I think that it has to do with when we feed the animal that's the way that we can tell that the animal is healthy and it makes us feel good that we're doing good job and taking care of the animals often snakes in particular are really good at hiding illnesses and sicknesses simply because they have to in the wild a sick or or injured snake is often going to fall prey to something to some kind of predator and you know they sort of have to be able to hide that and then I think that they do that in captivity but the downside to that is is that you don't know if the animal is sick or not and I think that if we you know if you feed it every week you somehow you know have this feeling that your snake is doing good and I think long-term long-term it's probably not the best thing for the animal so it really I guess depends on how you want to approach it I mean if you're okay with having an animal for 10 years and then you know and breeding it and feeding it like crazy well then I guess that's one thing but you know there's people out there that have animals that are 20 plus years old and you know they've they've really watched how they feed another topic that I'm not really sure who to talk to about this or or how to research this but a very diet I think that I think I have to believe and again I don't know I haven't really researched this too much but I just believe that you know with people a very diet is key and I know I'm comparing reptiles and mammals together and it's probably not the smartest thing to do but I just think that you know maybe there's certain things that that these reptiles or snakes get from certain prey items and you know they feed on other prey items on the flip side of that rep you know snakes and carpified on particular opera print opera print it oh my gosh opportunistic feeders so are they really being picky about what they're eating or they're just eating what's coming by so you know I don't know I don't know but I know I tend to think that it can't hurt you know it can't hurt so you know is there benefits to it better clutch better hatches better babies you know long-term health does it does it help boost the immune system I don't know just things that I think about I guess it's you get to a certain point where you're starting to think you know how can I better improve the life of the animal that I have and what can I do to to better improve its life so just things to think about for sure but I'd love to have somebody that we could discuss that with I think that that would be a fascinating episode for sure what else that I want to hit on I'm trying to think one of the other things that was on the list we talked about the I think I think I hit on a lot of things on the list but you know I don't think I think one of the things that people need to do is is start to realize that it's okay it's okay to try a species out and it's okay that you don't like that species and it's okay to move it on to somebody that's going to really you know be into that species you know so I think of my time with Crested Geckos I think that I think when I had those that I was doing that for the wrong reason I think that I was trying to have a variety on a table at a show and trying to somehow get people interested in carpet pythons through this ultimately the problem that I made and the mistake that I made is that I picked an animal that I really although they're cool animals I just wasn't excited about I just kind of picked an animal that I thought maybe would be one of those animals as a gateway animal so to speak into Moralia so I guess my passion for those particular animals weren't where it's supposed you know was it really kind of limited my success from the gate but it's okay you know you move those animals along and it's okay that that didn't work out I think that people maybe sometimes are afraid to admit because they don't want to be a failure or feel like a failure or think that that people are gonna think that they're a failure but you know I think it's more commendable because you're moving on that animal to somebody that really is passionate about it because you know I think that too often we're worried about what other people are doing and trying to copy what other people doing as opposed to just doing what makes you happy and excited so you know I think of Owen with Lyassus I mean he's like head over heels with Lyassus and he wants Savus and yeah I mean he has Savus and Mac lots and he wants to get you know the Duns pythons and and and all these all the Lyassus that he can possibly get because he just wants to as we say sometimes complete the set so to speak whereas you know I prefer I guess the pythons from Australia I don't know Savus yeah they're cool I dig them is it something I see myself wanting to get in too long term I don't know I don't think so I think that when the longer that I've gone without having them the longer that the more I realize that that's probably not a species that I want to keep you know it's weird is something like Angolan pythons okay you would think that you know somebody like me would want to work with Savus before I work with something like Angolans but Angolan pythons have been one of those species that for the longest time I have been fascinated with I don't know if it's because I never really saw one at at reptile shows or or whatever but it just seems to me like it's the perfect crossover between you know a ball python and say an African rock python you know and it's somewhere in between there and the keeled scales and I just think that that's a that's an awesome species I think what did it for me with them was when I when I went to a show I think it might have been I cast so maybe it was Hamburg but I saw Ben from Australian addiction and his offspring that he produced and I knew that you know one day I would want to work with those and have those so eventually I ended up picking up the females so even though a lot of my focus is on Australian reptiles for whatever reason they stand out and I do have some ball pythons you know I think that for the longest time myself personally I sort of shied away from wanting to have those simply because it wasn't quote-unquote cool at the time you know if you were a guy that was into Morelia you definitely don't want to be caught dead with a ball python because you know people would would just ridicule you left and right and this is what I say to that you know what the longer I thought about it the more I thought about it and the more the time went by basically I say fuck that you know I'm gonna keep what I want to keep and I am not you know driven to want to breed these crazy Moors but there's certain ones that I think are beautiful they're beautiful animals and if you're gonna just deny that they're beautiful simply because it's a ball python it's just ridiculous you know if you don't like it then that's one thing but if I took that paint job and I put it on a on a carpet python and all of a sudden it becomes the next craziest thing well then I don't know you know maybe you it doesn't necessarily mean just because you think it's a nice snake that that's something that you want to keep and honestly when it comes the ball pythons I kind of like the natural ones you know just a regular ball python you know I know that sounds crazy but it's a shame that oh I guess I think I think the thing that you know when it comes to ball pythons that people get upset about is that they unless it has genetics or genes behind it then people don't want to be bothered with it and and again that's not all people you know but just look at the value of a normal ball python you know it's just like it's really has no value you know there are people out there that just you know they're excited about genetics and if you're excited about genetics then by all means that's the perfect species to work with you know because you know it's their relative you can have a lot in a limited amount of space and you know you can kind of get a feel for how genetics work and how they play out but like we were saying earlier I just I wonder if we just if I think maybe the market for ball pythons has passed this now to where you know now it's about what the snake looks like which is the way it should be you know it shouldn't be just based off of you know there's 15 genes in this one snake as opposed to a simple two a two gene snakes which just looks killer you know like I think of that you know like something that I I just think it's the craziest looking I would just love to have one even if it's just as a pet eventually one day I will have a fire fire pied or firefly pied you know something along those lines insane you know three genes pied fire pastel it's just crazy looking snake and you know for I'm not going to not keep that because you know it's not cool or you know whatever because some brown gecko is what's cool what the you know today's standards or something like that and there's nothing wrong with it with the brown gecko which is that I'm more excited about this animal and I think if more people just did what they wanted to do and didn't worry about what other people thought I think ultimately that would just make for a better a better community and I think that the diversity of reptiles would be would be there because you know everybody would sort of be you know have a diverse collection of stuff and you go to shows and you'd see a diverse collection of animals and I don't know I seem to think that you know that I guess things have sort of leveled out and people people have sort of made their way back to keeping keeping what they like so I feel very good about where the community is going and I think that we're seeing that more and more at least I am with the people that I'm surrounded with you know one of the things that you know we were talking about things that pick up in the upcoming season and I think one of the things that I would tell people that if you're gonna do breeding my advice would be my approach has always been to plan out what your breeding is gonna be what is your what is your end game what is your ultimate goal where do you want to take the project what do you hope to produce you know maybe you just want to work with a species that really hasn't been bred that much then you know then that's one goal if you want to you know if you if you see if you look at I mean ball pythons are a good example of what you know I've mentioned it a few times during the show but it's a good example of an animal to where you can get ideas of what things may look like or how different you know colors or patterns kind of work together it's not to say that what happens in ball pythons is necessarily going to happen in other species of pythons but if you look genetics are very similar you know I always use the one example of like with blood pythons if you if you look at a petite blood python and you look at a zebra carpet python you would say okay that's that version of that in a zebra carpet in a in a blood python form the crazy thing is is when you breed two petiques together you get a patternless yellow snake huh that's kind of crazy because when you breed two zebra together you get a patternless yellow snake and they have tail issues and so does the petite. So when you look at things like that and there's numerous examples across you know across reptiles that you can see that you can sort of sort of just kind of get an idea sort of a template sort of sort of a bouncing off of of where you want to go and what you would hope to produce or or something like that maybe you see you look at a jag and you're saying oh man I remember you know talking to Jason Balen way back in the day one of his things is that he always wanted you know pinstripe type of look to a jag and you know that was one of his goals and just keep reducing and reducing the pattern and selectively breeding that to eventually to get there I think I think that you know if you have a clear direction like that then then the key is just trying to find those animals that's going to make that project work and you have to be selective about you know those animals that you're picking up the problem with carpets is sometimes you can't be overly selective especially when you're dealing with some of these newer species to our to our market so like inlands or something like that I mean you know you're not going to find selectively bred inlands as as of yet so you sort of have to have the the idea the the inland that I want to create is in the complete carpet python book and I believe it's well it was in somebody's collection and I'm going to open up the book here real quick so I can just take a peek and let you guys know what page it was on but if you look at okay if you look at the animal that is on okay page 74 in the bottom there it's just amazing look at that red and that that that I don't even know is that gray in the white man that that animal is just killer and I think that's also an example of how cool carpet python heads are you see those labia pits and they're just wow just sharp anyway so you know maybe if you look at a clutch maybe you'll get an idea maybe you want to take the lightest ones or the darkest ones or maybe one has a little bit more reduced pattern or whatever the case may be but at least you'll get a you'll get a get an idea of you know where you want to take it and who knows you might breathe those animals together and something else pops up and you want to take it in a different direction but I think planning out is really kind of important and the one thing that I would recommend also and you know I guess I kind of shoot myself in the foot giving away secrets and such but you know you contact that breeder early on to try to find out you know well first you want to find out who has the best examples of of that particular species or more for whatever it is and and and try to contact them try to get on the list that they have a list so that you're kind of first that was one of the things that I did way back when I was getting into carpet pythons is just kind of call people up or email people and get on their list so that I would have first pick of the clutch so to speak you know and kind of look and see you know what you can what you can afford kind of have that money ready to go because if you have a if you're first on the list and then it comes up that it's time it's go time and you don't have the cash while then you know the breeder might skip over and move you know to the to the next person on the list that has the money at the time I really just depends on you know the breeder if you develop a relationship with the breeder sometimes like I said earlier they give you what you know that snake credit which is which is awesome because you know you can you can sort of get the animals in advance of paying for you know Nick knew I wanted all of pythons and he just kind of sent them out before the weather had changed so that then they were here but you know that's that's that's an awesome and awesome thing but you know you don't you just don't get that because I've been burned on that as well you know I've had an experience where a certain person that I thought was was a good customer and a good friend and and I lived close and I didn't think that there would be any problem and I let them leave with actually a pretty big group of snakes and you know then they got burned on and never got paid for him and then what the crazy thing was is that he ended up selling them to somebody else and then that person is selling the snakes that haven't been paid for so that kind of that's kind of a crazy situation but you know I take the high road and it is what it is and it's a it's a learning lesson and you really have to be careful when doing that kind of thing so don't just don't think because I'm saying this that you're gonna be able to just get that with with with the breeder and don't expect it I mean that takes a relationship that develops over years and years and years till you you know consider somebody a friend like Owen for example I mean I would get if Owen came over and he wanted to buy a snake and he wasn't able to give me cash for months I would just say look dude here take this make it is what it is because that's just the the relationship that we developed and even though I want to do that with some people it's you know it just makes me makes me hesitant and there's a few people that I would do that for and then there was others that you know are gearing towards that position and then there's others that you know I don't know well enough to do something like that to take that chance because it is a chance you've taken a chance that you know that person might not you know they might roll on you so that's kind of a kind of a thing so yeah if you if you get on the list and you get ready to to you know when the snakes are ready that you're ready to get it and purchase it I think ultimately you're gonna start to develop a collection of really top quality animals and in order to produce top quality animals you have to buy top quality animals and that's kind of the way it works so you know that's another thing you want to think about when you're walking around at a reptile show and and you have you're gonna buy a jungle carpet and you know I think of somebody like Howard Redding he has a jungle carpets on his table they're 400 bucks take it or leave it that's it is what it is and then you have a you know flipper or jobber that has jungle carpets on the table for 150 bucks and you're gonna pay the 150 bucks but in long term you're gonna be disappointed because more than likely you're not gonna get the same quality jungle that you would if you're buying from somebody that's that's really been selective and really took the time to put together a pairing that that's really gonna produce stellar results and ultimately even with selective breeding even though a jungle is in a morph per se if you have a specific pairing that always produces nice results you're going to it's really good when you can produce a clutch of jungles where they're all going to be an a some will be an a plus but but all them will be at least an a that's that's pretty awesome if you're able to achieve that so you want to think about that another tip that I would say when when starting breeding projects is write the stuff down you know I I would often write it down because you know I take take for instance take if you especially if you're dealing with genes that are recessive if you have recessive genes and and then you have different morphs that you want to create let's I'll use my my cross granite projects for example so I have a zebra head granite a caramel jag head granite I have a caramel head granite and you know so if I would have just went and bought you know randomly you know Jack had granted this and had granted that and you know not thought about how am I going to be able to produce you know produce these animals in a way how can I say this it produced the animals in a way to where I'm better I can I can get more out of a season having you know different females that are had granite with other you know different kind of morphs involved and then just get it like something like a granite jag you know and just put that across those animals and be able to produce some crazy granite cross morphs type of stuff and that all came from you know mapping it out and and planning and granted right and granted that the the the pairings didn't always go as I thought that's why having backup males and and other roots with different females and all that all that stuff really pays off in the long term because it really sucks if you go and you buy a pair of something and you and you raise it up all the time and then the female doesn't go if you had another female or maybe the male doesn't go and you had another male or female that you could breathe to maybe the season won't be a bust or a loss because every time you know like the double-head snows for me every year that goes by is a year that I've lost now you know I'd have to first I have to produce the double-heads and then I have to grow them up you know before I can even produce a snow so you're talking at least I mean you're talking at least another four or five years from now before I'll ever see a snow which is long-term you know and then that's even even if I do hit the odds in that you know I might not even hit the odds so you know I might get a bow nose I might get a Xanax but I might not get a snow or who knows you might get all snows and that would that would just be crazy I mean I can't even imagine what it would be like that you had a whole clutch of just all snows but you know that's those are things that you just want to think about another thing just as a tip you know when you're doing maternal incubation that was always a goal of mine always something I wanted to do I heard a lot of people talk about the jags have a hard time maternal incubating which is why I sort of make it a rule for me if I can not to get a jag female you know that doesn't always work out because sometimes the pick of the clutch or the best one in the clutch is a is a female and it's you you know it's a jag you got to go with what you got to go with and then you know sort of make the the call from there I'd rather err on the side of not doing maternal incubation with a particular clutch and having a nicer animal I think that's just a better move long term but yeah I mean writing it down really really kind of helps out what you're doing it kind of keeps me focused on you know what animals am I raising up what animals am I going to try to really focus on what what do I want to kind of do and I even goes to far as to put it you know if that pairing works out and if this is what I produce what am I going to be taking that animal and putting it to later on down the line so I kind of have a feeling of you know like okay these two years this female is going to go then she's going to be off and then hopefully by that by the following year she'll be rested up and ready to go for when the male that she produced in that first clutch it's ready to breathe back to her for you know whatever the thing would be you know I talked about like so with that I'll give you an example of that so I have an albino jag I bred to a zebra head albino I produced an albino zebra jag I did the pairing again you know to produce and the following year I didn't produce any albino zebra jags which is okay but I and now I held back a male and I'm going to take that male and I'm going to breed it back to the zebra head albino so this year you know I thought about breeding her but I said no you know what I'm going to give her the year off so that she's rested up for the following year that's kind of the idea now whether that's the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do I don't know maybe some people are able to produce you know year after year after year that is possible I know some people that have done it but I don't know if that's the best thing long-term for the animal you know when it comes to that I really don't have animals old enough to really really talk about that in any kind of detail but I would think that that would would would burn them out I mean I would imagine it's very stressful to breed that's a very stressful thing that they have to go through and I would imagine that every time that they do it that that really does affect them in the long term so who knows yeah so I'm gonna I'm gonna wrap up and you know this was this was kind of a cool thing you know crit out thank Chris for coming on and joining me I wasn't expecting that that was kind of out of the blue that he actually they call in which was which was cool able to hang out and talk so some of the stuff that I that I maybe wanted to talk about I didn't get to hit on but but that's fine I think I think it was a cool show I hope you guys enjoyed it and like I said maybe in a future episode I'll interview Owen and Owen can interview me so you get a better feel of what we're about you know what we do what's our what's our successes and our failures and what have we learned I mean we're we're you know and are in a great position as far as every week we get to talk to the best of the best breeders and keepers of the species that we love so it's it's kind of like going to school you know every week we're going to school and we're learning new in every episode I try to take a little something from and and that's why I like listening to other podcasts because even if it doesn't deal with the species that you're you're dealing with it you know it really is cool to be able to to listen to other people that are passionate about other reptiles and who knows maybe they they will excite you to want to to pick up something you know one of the things I was listening to my my brother-in-law was big into bearded dragons and my my wife is a fan of them as well and we've we did have one for a while but for whatever reason it ended up it passed away I'm not really sure it happened because you know I don't know but anyway I thought about adding them again into the collection simply because I was listening to one of those Gecko nation radio shows and they were talking about bearded dragons and you know you know it's crazy about bearded dragons I was talking to Rob Stone about this is that if you would have looked at them years ago years ago when they weren't available and for us they were they would be considered a rare reptile so nowadays they're just bred and they're everywhere that people sort of take them for granted and I don't know man that's that's just a cool I think I think it's sort of lost its coolness factor because people just take it for granted but that is a cool species you know and again nothing breeding or anything like that but I think I think I think at some point I probably add them back into my into my collection I I don't think that I would ever get something like a leopard Gecko but I could see myself adding like you know some Amy I or or something like that as something different but who knows you know and then maybe I'll get them and keep them and say oh that's not for me recently that happened to me with Retix I thought you know with the whole band and stuff that was going on I thought maybe it would be a good idea to have at least just a pair of normal Retix because they are beautiful snakes I mean they're just beautiful they're they're really one of those species that it's kind of the the pinnacle look for any kind of for Python I mean beautiful they're so intelligent you know as far as the snake goes and they really they're really just different than then Python's what I'm used to and I thought that I would I figured hey man what's the you know how can this be bad and I don't know I just experienced just it just didn't do it for me and that's fine so I moved them on because I didn't want to have a snake that's you know and then it's 20 feet and now I have this animal that what do I do with and and all that so I'm I'm fine with admiring Retix from afar I love hearing about them I love the people that that that that keep them and they're excited about them and the genetics that they they work with and and they've done some amazing things with these animals and there you know I see a lot of people that are very passionate about their Retix and that's awesome and I can just appreciate that from afar because they're not for me you know I thought about that with some other species of Python as well but for whatever reason some sticks some don't it's that's that's that's okay don't be don't be afraid to say yeah yeah I tried it and I did my research and and that's not for me so and just because an animal reptile right now is rare doesn't necessarily mean that down the line that it's not going to be rare because Paul Python fell into that category as well I mean if you look back in the early days you hear all these Paul Python breeders like you know Greg Graziani and all these guys that sort of were getting into that way back in in the earlier days you know nobody gave a shit about them nobody knew how to breed them or cared you know they were on other things and to them you know to the to the I guess the market or the hobby or everyone said at the time they're more or less saying like God that's junk snakes man what are you talking about why would you want that you know wasn't until the morph started popping out that people started paying attention and now now look at where they are you know it's just it's just crazy to think that just because something becomes popular that it somehow loses its cool factor that's just silly man so if you like a particular species don't be worried about if other people think it's cool or not cool because things go in style look at ring pythons I mean you know back in the day you couldn't give them away you know nobody wanted to deal with them you know now you you'd be lucky if you get anything you get a pair for less than a thousand bucks I think you're probably maybe twelve fifteen hundred dollars a pair whereas back when in the early few thousands you could probably get them for like maybe two hundred bucks a pair you know see how things have turned around I guess that supply and demand type of thing because nobody worked with them and everybody sort of sold them off and who knows where they went or what happened to them and you know the person that still worked with them now all of a sudden to become rare and if you want them you're gonna pay this price and you know people did pay it you know that's kind of how that goes so so yeah enough of me rambling I'm going to give some of the shout outs and everything and then wrap it up I appreciate you guys tuning in every week and and listening to us and giving us some support and you know it really does mean a lot to me and Owen for the work that we put into the show that you know you guys get something out of it so for us like I said next week we had the Bollands Python episode after that oh it's not a guarantee but we're working on a carpondro show hello and shuddering at that one but it's part of the Moralia world I mean a lot of people are fascinated by those and I think it would be cool to talk about them hopefully after that week we'll get the blue-tongued skink episode and and then the following week it will be way caught the holiday show and then we'll be off for a couple weeks and then we'll come back and like I said we talked about in previous episodes we're gonna spread the wings a little bit try some other species and talk about some other things and you know hopefully get you guys excited about some other stuff I really take take that Moralia etc to heart so so it should be a cool thing the website for us Moralia Python radio calm you can go and check that out and sort of point you in the direction of anything you want to find Moralia wise if you have a question or a comment or a guess that you want to hear or something topic anything like that along those lines you know feedback good bad whatever send it to info at Moralia Python radio calm we love to hear from you guys and you appreciate you taking the time to send this send us an email your thoughts and all that the let's see the podcast you can listen to it if you are not able to listen to it live which you know most people don't but if you're not able to listen to it live you can always download it on iTunes or your podcast app of choice just look up Moralia Python's radio you'll be able to to find it subscribe to it and yeah you know listen to us at your leisure whenever you get a chance you know as far as let's see what else do we got as far as myself we have I have eB Moralia my website is eB Moralia.com my email is eric@eB Moralia.com my website is a work in progress I'm forever trying to update it and tweak it I go through times where I just kind of let it go for a little while and then try to get the info that I need to put together put it on there I'm trying to make it sort of a reference type of thing for people that they can sort of you know look at and reference for you know for them whether if you have one of the animals that I produced or if you're just curious about you know keeping or breeding carpet pythons in particular as I get more experience with other species as far as the breeding aspect I'm sure I will do that for them as well so you can check that out eB Moralia.com I'm on Facebook my Facebook page is eB Moralia Instagram and Twitter all under eB Moralia by the way Moralia Python radio is also on Facebook page and are pretty much our group Facebook group is Moralia pick of the week you can if you're interested in doing some research on Moralia you can buy all means go and check out Moralia pick of the week and put in a request to join and we'll get you approved so you can come in and become a member as far as Owen wrote dash reptiles.com he has a show coming up I believe it's the first this Saturday in December that will be at the Hamburg show I'm not really sure what he has available at the moment I know his stuff was dwindling down but I'm sure he has available animals that he has either on his Facebook page which is rogue reptiles or you can check out his website at rogue/reptiles.com or just send him a message Owen McIntyre and yeah that's I think that's that's all his info and I think I hit on everything as far as as far as us get in touch with us and I guess with that I will say thanks for listening until next week stay tuned for some more Moralia Python radio good night hey Chad Brown here you may remember me at the linebacker in NFL where's the reptile breeder and their owner of Projekt I've been hurt but since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advance in the industry and educate the community about the importance of reptiles I also love to encourage the joy of reading and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist which is why my partner Robin Markle and I created the reptile report the reptile report is our online news aggregation site bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world visit the 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