Morelia Python Radio

NARBC Tinley Park recap

In this episode we are back from our weekend at the greatest reptile show in the U.S. The NARBC show at Tinley Park. We will be talking all about the show and the cool things that we noticed and how we made out. We will also be talking about all the behind the scenes happenings that happenend during the after parties.

Duration:: 2h 12m
Broadcast on:: 14 Oct 2015
Audio Format:: other

Hey Chad Brown here, you may remember me as a linebacker in NFL, when I was a reptile breeder and their owner of Projak. I've been hurtful since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breeding and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Markham and I created the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news, photos and links so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. The reptile report offers powerful branding and marketing exposure for your business and the best part is it's free. 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Shipereptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use shipereptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rate. The materials needed to ship your reptile successfully, live customer support, and our live on time arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptilereport.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace. Find that perfect pet or breeder. Then visit shipereptiles.com to ship that animal anywhere in the United States. We are your one-stop shop for everything reptile related. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of Morelia Python Radio. We are back from the N-A-R-B-C trip to Tinley Park. What a trip it was. It was going on. It was something. I do always enjoy the reptile show and the occasional reptile road trip. God, driving it thinly is something else completely different. It's a monster old zone, but we survived. Nobody punched each other out on the road. We didn't break down or anything stupid. It was one hell of a good time out there. I loved it. I'm looking forward to next October. Every year seems to get better and better. I don't even know where to start. From the beginning, the drive for us is what was it? 11 hours. It's longer than it is. You guys left a mass place around what? 830 or 730-ish? Something like that. You got up to me at around 930. That's when we left here and drove out. It's some interesting conversations and learned some new things about each other. I shouldn't have owned hatred for Sasquatch hunters. Yes, it's not a heated debate, but a debate. I'll say it was friggin heated. Bo-bo, it is. There's a lot of yelling and proofing me. It's not true. If somebody comes out in the woods and shoots a monkey, I'll leave you until they get away from me. Yes, that always makes a good road trip conversation. This is why we don't record our road banter, because no snake talk would happen. We would just be looking like idiots. It seems that we start as snakes and then we slowly move towards other topics. Then it goes back to snakes and then back to other topics. It's just to circle around. We took the road trip with Zach Baez from Dark Side Exotics and Matt Minitola from Filly Herb. That was good. I mean, Tinley itself, walking around, seemed like there was more boa's than ball pythons. I thought I could be wrong, but that's kind of the feel that I got. There were a lot of different things. There was definitely a lot of boa's and there's definitely a lot of ball pythons. There was a lot of other stuff too. I will say that there was a lot of mix. This is the first time I ever seen Palmetto corn snakes. In the flesh, in the flesh. Thank you. In a few other animals that you don't really ever get to see. I mean, all of pythons were there and a few other things, but I will definitely say you are correct. There were a lot of boa and ball python-oriented people, not as many retail people as I've seen in the past. I think a lot of, I don't even want to say frog, people were even that many like dendra vatte or people like that. There was just a lot of snakes, a lot of snakes. Yeah, I mean the traffic on Saturday seemed to be really good. Much better than Sunday. They seemed to be more along the lines of people just coming with their family to check out a reptile show type of deal. The people who had already kind of made up their minds on Saturday, where they were going, were coming to make their decision or finish or pay it off or pick it up, and then maybe grab something else that may have caught their eye the day before. I will say there was one thing. There was not a lot of, I'll think about it and I'll come back on Sunday and if it's here, I'll buy it. There was a lot of, I want this money on table. So a lot of people were decisive coming in and grabbing stuff and going. Grabbing what they wanted. I mean, as far as Carpet Rogos, let's see who was all there. We had Julie was there from JFX Moralia. We had Jason Daelin there from East Coast Serpent, Howard Redding from Redding Reptile Breeders. Andrew Paris, from Paris Reptiles had some select jungles on the table. What else do we have? Trying to thank you, also selling Carpits. Well, selling Carpits. Well, Chris Rendles was there, but he was floating. Brian from Herpen House was there. He was kind of floating too. I don't know, I think he had a few animals on Howard's table. Then there was this poverty-looking fellow and this ogre-like creature that hung around with him. So, yeah, they were off at the end. I think that was it, really, with Carpet Rog. I mean, Todd from Psychotic Exotics was off to the side and so it was filled up from star pythons. They were off on their own, away from Carpet Rog. And I want to say, what was the other one? Da Vinci Boa was there as well. Yeah, they had some Carpits on the table. Yep. Yep. And I think that was it at a Moralia. And of course, he had some scattered ones. Some people were showing me pictures of caramels and bread lye that were in deli cups in like a stack. It was like eight deli cups deep stack of bread lye for like, what was it like, 75 bucks or something like that? Yeah. And I'm like, congratulations. I did celebratele that day. So I'm like, congratulations, they can sell that entire stack and, you know, I still won't care. So, you know, well, yeah, it was a there was a good representation of Moralia. I liked it. Yeah, I wish there would have been a little more on the Condro end of it, but, you know, we had Ryan, Ryan Burke and Jason Stevens were there from Colorado, Condros and, you know, they had, they had that one animal that was one that saved the 5,000 bucks worth, you know, probably. That was, that was one of those. That was one of those. That was one of those. I'm putting this on the table. And if somebody wants to give me $5,000, I will part with it. But if they don't, I'm not going to be that upset about it. I mean, one of those like, please don't buy this kind of things. Julie had heard Condros too. Yes, she had a few. Yep. And not Condros, but Chad Gray was there. And he brought a ton of white lips. And when I say a ton, I mean like six, but that's a ton in Owen mind. So I got the drool over those for a while. And then Ari was there too with his setup. And he didn't have any animals, but he had all his Indonesian skulls and stuff like that. So. Yeah, which were really cool. You know, I've seen him post them online, but when you see them in person, it's really quite impressive. Yeah, they are. So he gave, he also gave a talk. And we didn't get to go to it, but I know Zack went to it and Bill Stiegel went to it. And they they both said that it was a very, very good talk. They talk a lot about that. This was pretty cool. We'll have to get Ari to come on and chat about it. But you're saying that they had a picture of a woman and her fingers were all like on the nubs. And basically what happens over there is when somebody in their family dies, they take off a joint of their finger and they cut it off with a rock. They don't cut it off. They smash it off with a rock. And they start with the first knuckle of each finger. And then when you run out of those people, you move to the second knuckle. So they said that these people are down to like the last knuckle of their hands because that many people have died in their family. And they said that they can't beat themselves and do also something like, Oh, my God. It's really interesting. But Jesus Christ. Yeah, it is kind of kind of weird, but, you know, a little freaky. Yeah. Yeah, it was was pretty cool. I wish I would have had a chance to check that talk out for sure. But you got to stay at your table, you know, if you had gone to the talk, I would have stolen an tiger head albina. I had a few instances where I could have got a tape. Yeah, I found that more than anything, the Saturday night festivities were probably my favorite thing of the whole weekend. You know, I really got to hang out with a bunch of people and made my way around and got to talk to, you know, I got to talk to Chris from Mystic reptiles, which was which was cool because he's made his way into the carpet python world. And that's always fun to see. You know, I mean, he had carpets before, but to make his way and and get some, you know, some higher end stuff and really sort of take the plunge was cool. Mm hmm. Let's see. Who else did we hang out? Of course, Bill was there and his wife, which was was was really cool to hang out actually with them both. I mean, you know, that night that they were both awesome company. And, you know, it was really good time. Who else was there with a Lana? Oh, yeah, you know, I was there the entire time. Yeah. So launch was up the Friday night during setup because Matt did not drive up with us. He flew into the other wedding, which one, one time when we go to Tinley, all four of us will be there for the startup, like, you know, the one way. Yeah, because last year I had a wedding and this year Matt had a link, and I was a lot of get married in October. All right. No. So it's, so Lon shows up because he's going to set up Matt's table because I think if you had filmed me trying to set up Borneos and Bloods would have been the funniest shit in the world. But thank God, Lon was there. So Lon shows up and he shows up with, what do you bring? He brought the Corvella or whatever some God, what was it some alcohol that's like distilled in Chicago? Yeah, Chicago was a gin brain. Yeah, gin or something like that. So he's pouring cups of that as we're, you know, setting up. You know, I've cleared my sinuses. So, um, but he was with us from that point on, and he was, uh, he went home with a few things and he was grabbing some stuff. So, yeah. Yeah, it was definitely a, that was a good time. That's what I love about Timmy. I mean, Saturday night we left the show. You and I both made a few sales. So it was a Matt, Matt hadn't made any, but we went to the restaurant and he goes, well, I'm eating like, I sold something or something like that. We're going out to the dinner and we're eating something like we sold stuff. Yeah. Yeah, that was good. Yeah, that was, that was good. Good. Um, by the way, if you were out at Tinley Park, I recommend, uh, what was it called? Tin Fish. Tin Fish. Tin Fish. Yeah, it's, it's right across the street from the convention center and that little shopping area and it's a seafood restaurant, but holy crap. Was it good? Wow. That was awesome. Yeah, that was, uh, probably the best meal on the whole thing. You know, I mean, you know, when, when you're going on these trips and you're, man, it's just go, go, go, go, go. And you don't get to eat right and you don't get to sleep right. I mean, basically, you know, I guess we have to think our trip out a little bit better because, um, we, we showed up at, uh, what time we get there? Maybe like nine o'clock. We showed up at nine o'clock and they're like, you can't check into your hotel till three. And we're like, well, shit. So we, we went to Cracker Barrel and ate breakfast because we arrived and we were like dying. So we got breakfast and then we can't get into our room. So then we found out that the setup opens up at noon. So okay. So we got like three hours to kill. So we ended up sleeping in the car, we just passed that on the car. And apparently this is what people do. And then we're doing setup and we're doing setup and lawns like you guys are idiots. I stopped in like Columbus at a hotel room and then drove the rest of the way today. I just got here. We're like, well, we look like morons. It's like, you know, chicken simple three o'clock. Why not break it up? So instead of sleeping in your car for three hours, stop at a little motel and sleep there for a few hours. And we will do better, I promise. Yes. So yeah, Saturday night at first, it's the first night I'm hanging out with Tim Walton and Chris from Mystic Reptiles and his wife and we're just sitting there and having drinks then. I'm talking to them about, you know, different things. And you know, Tim does Gecko Nation radio and it was cool to be able to talk to him. I never really got time to really sit down and talk to him for any length of time. And anyway, next thing I know, some crazy drink comes over. Apparently there's going to be a t-shirt made with me sipping some kind of, what was it like a cheerleader martini or something? No, here's the thing. We're sitting there, we're talking and I look over and I see you engaged in conversation doing your thing. And I turn to the table, the table which consisted of Bill who is a criminal mastermind. Zach, Lon, Matt, I mean, all the heavy hitters were there. So I turn and I go, can we order the dumbest drink on the menu and send it to Eric? And of course, the table like exploded with like, I'm surprised you didn't hear us screaming about this and laughing. So we, of course, peruse the menu and it was something called a, I think it was like a candy, crush or candy puff, martini or something stupid like that. So call the waitress over and I'm like, all right, we need you to make this drink, but go all out, like add as much fruit as you can, make it as pink as possible. I don't care what you got to do, money is no object, just make it horrible. And we're talking like, we're talking to her, she's laughing and Lon's like, put some whipped cream on it, stick a sparkler in it, tell the waitresses, it's his birthday, do something. So they go over there and they mix up this drink. And of course, the bartender's laughing, the freaking waitress is still laughing, they're mixing it up. It is the biggest looking crap in the world. And then she sticks one cherry in it, like, that's not good enough. And they see them like making this like dumbbell of cherries and they call it a cheerleader martini or whatever the hell. And they stick it in there and they walk over to you. And of course, you're in the middle of like some conversation, you're into it. So this waitress just comes right up to you and goes, this is a drink from your friends over there. And you turn and of course, the table is waving and laughing and pointing at you. And you took a nice little sip, but like a good gentleman, you pointed your pinkie out. Bill's wife was hiding over there somewhere, taking pictures and recording a video. So we'll have to get copies of all that, but it was great. And now, now I've said a president, where if you abandoned me, I'll just keep sending you dumb drinks. So yeah, that's what that was. So Lana even said that we were sitting on other ends of the table. And she's like, I'm not used to YouTube being so far apart. And I'm like, what? She's like, you guys gotta be like, it's gonna be in like the same place. So I'm like, you're right. Well, all right. So yeah, so I mean, yeah, that was, that was, that was classic. So I think, I think that, sorry, I was reading a message that came through. I think that as far as carpets go, I mean, quality seemed high. There was some really nice jungles that Howard had. I think that albino stuff was there. So yeah, Julie, yeah, she always has top notch stuff. She had some nice IJs. And you know, it was cool. I got to meet up with his name is David. I think his last name is Cheerno. Anyway, I sold him a IJ back in 2012. And he bred the IJ with one he got from Luke Snell. And turns out that produced the clutch and man, these IJs were killer. I mean, they were really cool. Top notch IJs, of course, Julie bought them all. So there was one left and, you know, I, I, I was like, yeah, really, I like, I really like this one. And, and yeah, Julie bought that one. I was like, Oh, man, damn it. And coastal that you guys, that you wanted and Julie wanted. And I think I ended up going to Julie that, that one, the bailing brothers, he brought his crazy ass reds. I mean, Jesus Christ. Yeah, they were. Yeah, what he's doing with red coastal is just really amazing. Yeah, but that that was really just kind of a normal coastal. But it was really just a phenomenal example. I can't believe people didn't jump on it. I just was blown away that people, people weren't paying attention to that. But you guys, you guys made a move for him until like late Sunday. And it's like, well, why was he even hanging around for that long is what bothered my mind. So yeah, well, I think, I think the one thing that, that I've learned and taken away is that that we definitely need representation of adult animals. And I think probably the hardest part of selling carpet pythons or carpet python morphs at a show, as we all know, is that they're very drab as babies, you know, maybe a year onto them and they start to gain some color. But if you don't have those adults there, you really don't get a feel for how big it's going to be, what is it going to look like as an adult, you know, that kind of thing. So me and you, we're talking about, you know, next year, we'll go possibly getting two tables and having adult examples of the subspecies because you did bring a red lie and, you know, that kind of got people, you know, stopping and paying attention many times over. And I think, I think if you want to educate people about carpet pythons, then that's definitely a way you got to go. I know that Matt, he brought, you know, a large adult bornio. And, you know, that got a lot of attention as well. And, you know, I don't know if that, I think he would say, or maybe it was the table next, so it was distracting from their sales. So apparently the guy next to him was like, hey, man, maybe you would have gotten more sales, or you didn't bring the adult because they were distracting. And then the other guy who was running the table next to Matt said, well, also distracted from our stuff too. And it's like, well, all right, you're going to be sorry. So, but I do love bringing adults to shows, and I'll bring Hamburg's this weekend. And I don't have to split a table, so I'll be bringing my adults to the show. But what you said about having, like, because you're, you're breeding more, I'm breeding more, and we're running out of table space for each other. So we're, yeah, we were packed in. Yeah, there was no room. We didn't run for the business cards. They were like on top of the displays. So what you said about splitting, getting two tables and splitting it and having Rogue, and then NPR, and then Evie Morelia, I always thought was cool. And then we said about getting the middle thing of bringing all the different subspecies and species of Morelia of kind of just display. I thought that was awesome, because between the two of us, probably you don't even need me. You bring all the subspecies of Morelia. It was the exception of Inbracata. But it's, so yeah, definitely looking forward to it. Yeah, it should be really cool. A few people asked me if I had brought the rough scales. I'm like, no. Why am I going to? No, they're mine. I'm not going to bring them here and have to beat away people who want to buy them. Stay at home. Yeah. One of the things that I also noticed from the show was people's attention to the Morelia, etc. stuff. So you had a matclots on the table. It seemed like everybody that came up with, they kept asking, what's that for sale? What's that? Is that for sale? It's funny because late Saturday somebody's talking to Matt, and he goes, I got to move this matclots python. And of course, I'm like, what? And of course, once you say that, I'm like, right in front of the guy, like, I'll buy it. What is it? Can I look at it? And he goes over, and it's a female matclots python. Now, my adult matclots python had a slug clutch. And unfortunately, through some internal issues passed on me several months after the slug clutch was laid. So I was without a matclots. And I actually am doing a breeding alone with my male matclots this year. So I do have a female, and I am going to try for matclots by the end. But I didn't have anything past this year planned. So picking up a yearling female mat was like heaven's sentence. Like, oh my god, perfect. But the same thing that happened with that damn water python a few years ago, where I, well, now I bought this animal at the show. I'm just going to stick it with my display so it's warm and it's happy. Everybody walks up points at us and says, what is that? I've never seen that before. Oh my god, it's beautiful. That's awesome. And the thumb people who knew what a matclots liar were all over it. And that happened all day Sunday was like, yes, it's a matclots python. No, the, you know, that means not for sale. It doesn't mean you can pay me that. So it's, you know, it was, that was all day Sunday, which is kind of further my thing of like, I'm on the right track. I should really get my freaking my asses to breathe. So yeah, I think, well, let me ask you this question. This is something that I thought about doing the show, coming back from the show, having time to relax and think about things. Would there be something that you would change and would you change maybe your breeding season or maybe pairings that you might or might not do based on what happened at this Tinley Park? Yeah, there are certain things that would change, first of which I'll be shifting my entire collection into iguana. I feel that's where the money is and that's where I'm going to do my best. So I'm going to get nothing but Cuban rocket guana. But in all seriousness, there were, there were a few pairs that I had lined up for this season that I had reconsidered that I actually actually, some of which I'd actually been on the fence about before going out to Tinley and having seen the animals at Tinley spoke to the breeders at Tinley and wondering where they were going and who it was and what was going on with this and what was going on with that and the sales perspective of a few other people I had shined away from some and embraced others. You and I had a conversation about jags at granite a few weeks before Tinley and you were like, I'm not sure if that's worth it. You know, you had a whole tired flush of it and I'm like, I don't know, I'm never producing. I guess it's granite metal. It's kicking around. He's just sitting here. I sent the female off to Jason Bailin. So and you don't need the granite mail. So it's like, I guess you could stay here. But now I'm like, I might use them. I thrown into this jag that I got that, you know, same deal. I have her. She's perfect. But I don't really have a mail that knocks my socks off about breeding doors. So I'm like, yeah, maybe I'll make jacket grants. So talking to Crystal, I mean, he's like, well, there's, you could produce someone they'll sell. These won't sell immediately. I'm like, Oh, I'm not the kind of guy who really gives two shits if they move immediately right on the egg. So I can hold on to them. But if there's somebody willing, there's people willing out there to grab them. Sure. I might produce it. And then the other thing is seeing Todd's tiger's hat. Examic. I had the potential of breeding one of my tigers to an examples male this year. And I was only going to take the examples and breed them to caramels to kind of chase the caramel heads. But now I'm like, you know what, I want to see an examic tiger. So I want tigers heading there and I don't want to pay for them. I want to just make them. So that's a project that I had just shipped around a little bit to that one too. So there's a few other things. And of course, I'll dung hoe for my I asked this stuff. And well, that's fun jazz. I don't know if I pretty much will probably stay with my parents that I'm going to do. I wish that I had maybe some more jungle stuff. I think that that's definitely stuff that people definitely gravitate towards. I do have some stuff that I'm working on, but I think that I don't know. By next Tinley Park, we'll have sides on it. We'll be at a bait. I was surprised that the citrus tiger. Well, I shouldn't say I was surprised. I was not surprised that they didn't move because a lot of people really don't understand what they're going to turn into. Everybody wants to wait for the color. Yeah, but I tried to gear people towards what I think are going to be the screamers. And that's fine. I'll grow them up and put some color on them and add $200 to it. So I have no problem with that. Exactly. It's funny because you and I had the conversation about last year, I had the red tiger icon clutch and nobody bought nobody bought. And then one month they all shed and the colors came in and then they were all gone. I ran out of all of them within two months after that. I still have caramells from last year, but I do not have any tigers from last year. They're gone completely. So it just takes that one time where they're like, "Holy crap," and they're gone. But now you and I may know what we're looking at. And of course, Julie and Howard and Jason came by the table. And I remember Julie and I were pointing at me. Julie were pointing at the the citrus tigers and she's like, "I like this one." And you're like, "I like that one too." I'm like, "I like this one." She goes, "Yeah, that one's a nice too." We were skipping around. It's like those are going to be the ones that are nice. And it's kind of hard to convince that. I know you wanted to bring like satche or somebody too timidly to show off. Cablespace, I guess, and transporting animals in October was one of those things. Yeah. I think that, like I said, I don't have a problem with that because that's going to people. I mean, I know that I had them at 400. And again, I guess this would be a reflection that I had. It's that I had the citrus tigers at 400. And other people were selling tigers for 200, 250, 300, and half. Yeah. I sold a red tiger. So. Yeah. I could have dropped the price. Maybe they would have moved. But I'm sorry, man. They're going to be screamers and I'm just not going to do it. So, I mean, that would just, if you're doing a show or maybe you're putting your animals up online and they don't move, don't be afraid to just hold on to them. I mean, you've invested so much time and effort into getting those babies. Don't sure change it. Don't just bail on it or quit on it because you don't get that immediate return. That's why I always say like, if you're going to breed animals, you should be ready and prepared to be to hold on to those animals, especially with carpets, especially with Morelian general. I mean, even chondros go through the same thing. You know, you want to hold most chondro people who breeders will hold on for a year because they don't want to give up that one animal that they don't want to go away. Exactly. Yeah. And it's one of the things of like, if you set your price, don't worry about it because your animal will grow into that price. I mean, yeah, it may take a few months but also a few more sheds, a few little bit more size. It will be worth that money that you set it for. And then after that, it's time to up the price. Like, a lot of people are like, I'm just going to wait until you drop your prices. We'll screw you, buddy. If this thing gets closer to a year, his price goes up because now he's a breeding male. Like, you know, if you want to grab him now, don't wait. So, yeah, I needed a tiger. I would have taken him from me. I get it on tigers. Yeah. I mean, that's another thing. I mean, you have to, I mean, I think with tiger, citrus tiger, specifically, to me, I would gear, I am, I am, but I think they're geared more towards either somebody that wants a really, really nice looking animal, you know, like a trophy type animal or something that somebody may put that into, you know, a cross-type project or something like that. Because you can't, I can't 100% say that they're pure coastal. I can't say that this is a coastal because of that one animal that's, you know, unknown. So, was it a jungle? Was it a coastal? Who knows, you know, that kind of thing. So, I mean, I'm still going to breed it into my coastal stuff. Yeah, absolutely. But I would never pretend it to be, you know, you know, something like a Brisbane coastal or an MBB coastal where, you know, that lineage is pure. But again, they're beautiful animals. I mean, yeah, the high contrast Queensland coastal, you know, I guess really it rides on whether or not you believe that they're pure coastal or not. So, if you believe that they're pure coastal, then, you know, you shouldn't be worried about citrus tigers. But if you're on defense, I can see where people would say, I don't know, you know, it probably has a jungle in it somewhere and maybe it does. I don't know. Who knows? But if you're into tigers, if you've got some case space, you know, maybe you don't keep three pairs of the same kind of tiger lines. I mean, if I had the space, I'd have, you know, 1.1 raised, 1.1 Russians, 1.1 normals, 1.1 citrus, and then, of course, the crazy more. So, like, albino tigers, I want very much. Well, that's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I mean, from day one, from day one, when I picked those up, my end goal was an albino tiger. And I felt that if you're using the original line tiger that's more of the khaki color, I don't know if the contrast is going to be as killer. And when I saw those citrus tigers, I just thought, man, the contrast on these things are going to be nuts, you know. When you're going for a wow factor. Yeah. So, I brought the, you know, the citrus tiger head albino just so people got a feel for, you know, what's going on. Because they seem to throw these two different looks. There's ones that really could pass as jungles, you know, really solid black, really high contrast. Then you have the yellow ones that have like this fish neti, sort of, it's gray outlined in black with yellow stripes and, you know, it has yellow portholes and along the side. It's just a really wild looking animal. So, I don't know. Just some things that I thought about from the show. I would agree. But, yeah, wherever in October, I mean my pairs are pretty much set. But there's always some legal room. And maybe you sit a female or maybe you see how a female is going to go this, that or the other thing. You know, I only had two Dominican red nut and bow left. And they are still here. So, maybe I'm going to go ahead, but I don't have any of those coming up right now. And I had a ton of people interested in bread lie, but I didn't have any female bread lie. So, maybe that kind of shot people away from trying to buy a bread lie because they couldn't get a pair or a girl. So, yeah. Yeah, well, I think when you're starting those type of projects, you definitely, I mean, I was interested in Andrew Parris did a a worm repairing. And I was very interested in the, you know, getting something from that clutch. You know, he had some issues with the clutch. And some of the eggs didn't make it. But he ended up patching, you know, he had one male. And, you know, I really didn't want to start the project with the male. I wanted to start with the female. Then you can grow them up for a couple years and then really find that right, that right male to go with the female. But, you know, that's, that sometimes keeps people from, from picking up, picking up males. So, I don't know. What else, what else about the show? I guess the auction was, was pretty cool. Oh, that's where we're going with it. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. I would say it was interesting, but it was what they raised. I think they ended up raising $65,000 for USARC, which is amazing. That is incredible. And congratulations to everybody who put that on, put that up, donated. It was, that's incredible. And there was some, there's some weird, weird lot. One of them was some guy had to eat, like, the head of a giant gummy snake that was like 10 pounds of gummy bear and like, get a half an hour to keep them like, I'm like, are we gonna kill a guy? This is great. There was an owl, there was rubber band guns, Star Wars figurines, there's a lot of stuff. And then of course there were the animals. And then there was the silent auction portion that had a lot of really cool animals and books and, you know, magazines and some artwork was there, some custom tanks. So I think it was a furry that would come to your table, a dragon furry creature person in a mascot costume thing that would come to your table. And I'm like, can I bid on this and make this thing dance around Eric? But I don't want to, I don't want to spend my money on this. So yeah, it was, you know, but we're, it was a open bar and we were hanging out. So it was, it was a fun time and they put on a great auction, a great show. So, yeah? Yeah, I just wish they had something closer to the, to the East Coast, you know. I know that they said a few times that they really didn't have any luck when it came to doing shows on the East Coast, which sucks for us. But I don't know, man, that would be, that would be a really good time, but so be it. You know, maybe one day, maybe they'll do it one day. You know, I think that was one thing that we were talking about as, you know, me and Matt specifically, because I know you do a lot of shows, well Matt does a lot of shows too, but finding something that's putting us in front of a different group of, of people is, I think it's good, you know, it kind of, you know, you might go to the show and you might bend and you might not make a sale, but you get to meet new people and interact with new people, which sometimes you get what they, I call that after the show sale. So like, you know, you might not get it at the show, but you talk to somebody and somebody maybe be sitting on the fence on whether or not they should do it. And then they say, you know what? Yeah, I'm going to do it. And then they contact that person and then, you know, then they, then you sell the animal. Right. They, they take your card and they have you ship a tomb or stuff like that. So it's, it's one of those things where it's, it's always good to do a show. Like, like I said, a million tons before there's no such thing as a bad show. You know, there are shows where I don't make any sales. There are shows where I'm kind of bummed out that I don't make any sales, but there's no such thing as a bad show because you're out there, you're showing your face, getting your name out there, you're talking people in the community, you're talking to potential customers. You can talk to the same people eight times and then not sell, not, not buy from you, not buy from you, not buy from you. And then one day they show up and just buy like a trio, like right off of you immediately. It's, yeah. You know, so you, you, you have to do this. You have to grind it out. No one expects you to go out on your first show with your great little babies and, you know, sell out. That's why it's always the running joke. If you'll notice when people are like setting up or you sold out yet or, you know, oh crap, you go ahead and home. I mean, I'm already sold out. I'm already done. I'm out. So. Yeah. And I guess the elephant in the room is there was some drama that was going on. Actually, there was quite, quite a lot of drama. A number of things that created drama and, you know, I don't know, you know, I think, you know, we weren't going to get into too much detail on this whole thing. But the only thing I'll say on that is that it just makes me happy of, you know, having you guys as friends and being a part of the community and not having to deal with that kind of bullshit where the backstabbing and, I don't know, man, it's just, it can get crazy, man. It can't get not. Yeah. You know, people lose sight to what this is all about. And I guess when there's money involved and, you know, this is what people do for a living, you know, I get that whole thing. But I don't know, man, it's just like, I don't know, some of the drama is just uncalled for. Yeah. And those people who are trumpet at the bit, we're not going to mention anything or mention anybody. You'll just have to Google and open your eyes and you will figure out what the hell we're talking about. Sorry. Yeah. But it's like, it's just when you have high stakes in certain things in certain projects, if there isn't a real big kind of sense of what's going on. If people felt they've been done incorrectly or been treated unfairly, you know, that stuff can come back to bite you. And they all kind of goes back to, if I have a customer who feels that they've been treated unfairly, I'll bend over backward sideways and forwards to make sure that the thing was done right. And in this way, I know they leave a good taste in their mouth. Because you never know. All it takes one person to go online and say that they had an issue with you. And if you've been in this long enough and you've not done things to, you know, please everybody. And I know it's very hard to please everybody and damn they're impossible. And some people just cannot be happy. But yeah, those people will all of a sudden reemerge and come out of the woodworks. And then of course, you look like a horrible person and all this other stuff. And over something little, something very small and minor can just get blown into you're the worst reptile keeper ever. So yeah, I mean, this is one of the these instances where, you know, you're sort of, you know, do you jump on the bandwagon and talk about these kinds of things? Because maybe they should be addressed or, you know, do you just kind of gloss over it? Do you not talk it at all? And just, you know, but I feel that the positive thing of it, you know, just even just glancing over it and mentioning it, the positive thing for me is that, again, I just appreciate the community that I'm involved with. And there is drama in the morality world there, you know, no doubt. But the people that I are in my and you are inner circle, you know, we don't really have that. And I'm very thankful that that that's the case. You know, I think Bill, Bill, he hits the nail on the head and it's about, it's just about being, how does he, he always say, you know, you have to just shit. And now I'm losing the word that he always uses. It's not understanding. It's oh, god damn it. Hey, wait, that happens. Get on a roll and I get all screwed up. It's over. It's over. We're going and now it's been backfired. Go ahead, talk. I read it. I read it. I mean, it's difficult to to try to stay on the outskirts of such a big issue, but obviously this does not concern us. So we're not going to weigh in on it or talk about it. But you know, if there was some stuff that happened to Tinley, and of course, you know, some people kind of got into it a little heavier, Tinley, and of course, you never want to see temperatures kind of flare up in a public setting, especially when we need to all understand is that eyes of the immediate non reptile people are kind of on us, especially at a place like Tinley Park that's our biggest reptile expo that I believe it is. So, you know, we also always want to conduct ourselves in a professional manner. But sometimes that's hard if you've been kind of jerked up. So, you know, you can kind of see it from both sides here. So, yeah, it's just about good. Well, I mean, his thing is that, you know, you just you just be accepting of other people and accepting of their, you know, just sort of understanding their perspective or point of view. And maybe if you don't agree, you don't necessarily bash that other person. That's kind of, you know, that's kind of the thing. So, so that's, that's, that's a good thing. Let's see, what else did we, I don't know, I mean, ultimately, I thought the, the show was great. One of the highlights for me, and I really had a good time talking with Matthew Moyle. That's it. Tolerance. See, I knew it. You bill. Damn it. Tolerance. Yeah. Well, I kind of said what he was saying, but basically just being tolerant of other people in their situations and so. But yeah, Matthew Moyle, so we're getting closer and closer to planning our trip to Australia. And it's something that we kind of talked about on the way up. And he sort of, you know, we were planning on going in September and he sort of said, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't want to go in September. You want to go in November because you may see, you may hit a cold spell in September and you might not see anything. So the fact that it's not that easy for us to just go back and forth, you know, we've sort of rethink what that trip is going to be about. But I don't know. I see it coming into fruition. And again, these are the things that we kind of talk about on the show, you know, multiple times. It's just, if you can think and imagine that you can do something and put it in your mind that you're going to do it, then damn it, you're going to do it, you know. But you just have to, you have to push that thing in your head that says, you know what, yeah, I am going to do this. I am going to, you know, whatever, I am going to breed this species or I am going to make a trip to Tinley Park next year or I am going to go to a carpet fest or even if you're going to just say I am going to go to Australia. I mean, or wherever, you know, maybe Australia isn't your thing. Maybe Pop and McGinney is your thing. Maybe Indonesia is your thing. You know, some of the islands. So Africa, yeah, Africa, you know, Costa Rican. Maladina Costa Rican for his 10th wedding anniversary. She had a blast. But what was it? You met up with April at Tinley. And oh, yeah, like, oh, I saw the pictures from last Tinley and I'm like, I got to go. And she's like, of course, all my friends were like, I got to go through. I got to go through. And she's like, I am the only one who went out and said, I am doing it and did it. And of course, we were making fun of Torel who was her business partner the entire time saying that, oh, so you can come up with Torel, good. And maybe your Torel credit card will send you home with a bunch of stuff for you and all of the crap. So it's one of the things I am like, and it happened to me and you. You went out to Tinley Park that one time and I didn't where I didn't make it happen. It was a matter of getting time off and planning ahead. If you are sitting down at your computer right now looking up at everybody's pictures and everybody's post-Tinley post and a lot of the crap and you're wanting to go, just do it. Just make it happen. Just sit down, talk to your boss and say, you know, how early can I put in for a vacation time and then start looking up at plane tickets. If you buy them in advance or if you're going to figure out drive and try to start talking to reptile people in your area, set up some kind of dumb convoy thing like we did and then get your ass out there because you will not regret it. I promise you. It's just like how you become the freak carpet fest. Yeah, one of the here's even taking it a step further. And I guess I could say this because if I say it, then more than likely we're going to make it happen. But on the way home, we were talking about, you know, we're thinking of going to Tinley Park and all this and doing the reptile show and promoting the podcast and all that stuff. But let's kick it up a notch. Let's go to a reptile show in Australia. Now we're kicking it up a notch, you know. And it's like, you know, hey, maybe we could go down there and set up a booth and, you know, just to see what that's about, promote the show and maybe... Look at all the animals we can't buy. Yeah, you know, it's one of those. I don't know what we could offer as far as, you know, anything other than, you know, just be an Eric and oh and then giving you our perspective. That is enough. That is enough for me. It's amazing. That back there is amazing. I'll be Eric, you can be Owen. So can you imagine going to a reptile show in Australia and imagine walking around and imagine seeing what we would see and imagine what that must be like. I mean, those guys came to see us and they made it happen. So why don't we make it happen? You know, I mean, that's just something, I don't know. You remember what the Australians were like when they were holding like, Matt's blood and stuff like that? I guarantee you, I stick you in front of a booth of some random person that is in ricotta. You're done. You're done for the entire day. I won't see you for the rest of the day. Right. Yeah, I mean, dude, of course, I want to see everything and you imagine just like the ones who are like, oh yeah, I collected this one out in the front yard, but God damn it. And of course, there are the other things Bellface lace monitors, normal lace monitors, you know, the just all the different types of lizards that get go and snake and, you know, staring at it in one type and it doesn't make anybody nervous. So yeah, well, it would be curious to see, I would be curious to see their perspective, you know, like what is, what is the show that they do? How is that? I mean, we've seen it on, you know, different YouTube's things and whatnot. But, you know, I to see it firsthand and to see what, you know, I mean, they've been been really keeping reptiles like we do for that, for that long. And, you know, when we were talking to Peter Birch and he was saying about some of the different restrictions they have and some of them like, what they have to do and you have to have certain permits and that kind of stuff. And yeah, it's just, it's just, it's just something that again, life is short, man. You know, you just kind of got to kind of make those things happen. So, my first step was to subscribe to Scales and Tales, the magazine. So, you know, maybe the advertising there, maybe we see, you know, how that goes and etc, etc. You know, I think that, I mean, we're here and we breed carpets and other Australian pythons. You talk about them on the podcast and we act like, you know, you know, we've been doing it forever. And, and, and I think that here in the States, we, we, we do a great job in selective breeding and whatnot. But, when you think about, you know, where the Australian reptile hobby would be, you know, 10, 20 years from now with what they have available to them is just mind-blowing, you know, I mean, it's just crazy to think it. Oh, yeah, see, there we go. We can, Darien, he says that we can hang out at his booth. Sweet. He made, he may regret that decision. I mean, I'm just going to say that is that he may be like by, by noon, he might be like, you do idiots, you just sit down because everyone is avoiding by table. So, you know, that's, I think, I think that that would be cool to hang out with the, the Herpers of Australia. I just think that that would just be amazing. You know, it's, it's almost, you know, I don't know, it would be life-changing maybe. I don't know. I just, it's, it's, it's one of those dream things you can cross off a bucket list or something like that. It's, it's, it's one of, and I would love to see how the shows are structured, how everything looks, how everything feels. I mean, it would be so cool. So give us a couple years and maybe we'll be, we'll be heading down maybe sooner than later. I don't know, you know, but definitely, I see other people do it. So, you know what? And those guys come up here. So, there's no reason why we can't go down there. So, I mean, how many, how many, how many tens has Nick been down there? I mean, come on. So, all you ever did was write a couple books, right? So, yeah, I, I, talking to, uh, to Matthew Moyle, he was showing me some of the anteriesia that he works with and, oh my gosh, man, it's just amazing the, the, the animals that they work, that he works with. You know, I think what I like most about when I'm talking to him is the fact that he just kind of does his thing, man. You know, I mean, he's just kind of under the radar type of guy and, uh, he just kind of, he breathes his snakes and, you know, he's been part of it for a long time and has seen all the ups and downs and sideways and just kind of keeps his, he's doing his own thing, doesn't really care too much about what's going on and keeps himself out of every, all the drama that I'm pretty sure he's seen more than his fair share of it. He's been in it as long as he is, as long as he's been in it. So, yeah, and, and, uh, he promised, uh, he promised he's going to work on trying to get, uh, Tracy Barker on the show. So, that'll be, we're not above getting other people to do our dirty work for us. So, yeah, just so everyone knows, man, we're not ashamed. So, yeah, I don't know, is there anything else that, that, that, that out to you? I mean, what's Finley Barker? Well, what did you, well, why don't you tell me if there was some, was there an animal you saw at Finley Park that kind of really knocked your socks off that was maybe not Moralia? Dennis McNamara had a black-headed python on his table that was amazing. It made me rethink the whole black-headed python thing. Um, you know, I have a, I have a, a black-headed python and I keep, I just kept, he's a male and I just kind of have him. But when I saw this animal, I mean, the contrast, this thing was crazy, sick, yellow, and, oh my God, it was just amazing, amazing animal. I think if there was anything else that really stood out to me, uh, non-Moralia wise, um, hmm. There was, you know, something that, uh, I found, there was, uh, uh, some of the monitors that I saw, especially over at, um, the, uh, what do you call it, uh, rare earth. Yeah, rare earth, so, yeah. You know, you know, I'm not a lizard guy, but, I know that, uh, I can appreciate that kind of thing when I see somebody, I can appreciate somebody's, uh, you know, I hate saying this word anymore, but somebody's passion for, uh, species that they work with and they're so confused, you know. Anyway, um, what they do, they're just a setup, man, just a big rock of a name with a lizard. Yeah, I mean, that's why I'm freaking, it's kicking it out of the notch, man. If anybody is not being rare setup, it, it actually got, um, it looked urban, urban gecko or urban python or whatever one you were talking about. They used to do the same thing. It looks like a rock formation with holes cut out of it. And I guess there are tanks behind the rock formations that you peek through the holes and you can see what animals are there. And if they have the labels of what it is and how much it is, they have, like, Kimberly, uh, they've been Kimmies, and they have, uh, uh, ackeys, and they've all this other stuff, and all these different little rock crevices and that's their whole setup. It looks like a zoo setup, to be honest with you. Now, like I said, urban python came down to Hamburg once and they had the same thing, but there's like a cityscape with little windows and stuff and had little tanks full of all their geckos and pythons. And I think, I think Ben said that all the addiction does the same thing or used to, um, because he said that, uh, yeah, because he, the first time he came to Hamburg and he goes, this, this setup and breakdown was so much easier, because I used to have to get to the show like three hours before to help, uh, Justin build the freaking thing. I'm like, Oh, all right. So it's, um, yeah, but it goes such a long way to have something unique that's different than everybody else's setups. And that was just awesome. Um, yeah, good stuff. Yeah, again, and not, not necessarily my cup of tea per se, but, uh, I definitely can appreciate, and especially because it's Australia. And you know, that always catches my eye, some of the ackeys and stuff that they had. I mean, if I had space and unlimited time, I probably would keep something like that. You know, I probably definitely would, if it was more manageable. I think one of the things that I've, um, who I'm leaning towards, I'm Zach's gonna like this one, but, um, maybe. Don't say skinks. Don't say skinks. The blue tongue skinks. Um, you know, I, again, I don't know if breeding a skink is definitely in my cup of tea, but, um, I don't know. I have another, uh, a new appreciation for them. And, uh, you know, I don't know if it's something that, uh, you know what, what holds me back with them is I don't know, I don't know what it's like to keep them, you know, uh, from what Zach tells me. It's very low maintenance, but, you know, when, when, as soon as you say something has legs, to me, now it's telling me that it's, you know, now it's a little more high maintenance, uh, and, you know, with my time constrictions and whatnot, I don't, I can't really think more time into, you know, that kind of, that kind of project. One of the things that, you know, so one of the things that, uh, I guess, you know, if you're going to reflect over the weekend, and you know that I'm not afraid to try species and say, okay, this is me, um, you're in practice because we're a hot minute, which is, yeah, I mean, I'm all about, you know, trying to speak, and some people will say that they try species. And then if you quit on that piece, then, you know that, oh, here it is, blah, blah, blah. You're just always flipping your thing and changing your mind. And there's some people that I guess they're constantly doing that. So it kind of looks like they're constantly never settled in on something. And I'm the type of person that I get super excited about something and, and, and, you know, go full toward and say, oh, yeah, this is, this is going to be awesome. And then I take a step back and you're like, yeah, yeah, maybe this was decision was made and, and hey, I know you, Zach and Matt are probably saying, uh, this is only going to last a couple of weeks or a month or whatever. So without, you just might think that you never know what your, what it's like to keep a certain type of animal until you do. Like, I've had, I've had a woman's, I had a trio of woman's, adult woman's that I was going to breed the one year and I had, um, they were there here for a couple of months and I'm like, you know what, they're just not working for me and I got rid of them. There was partially because I need cage space, but it was also partially because they weren't working for me. It wasn't, it didn't do anything for me. And you're allowed to have that. I mean, uh, the Amazon Tribos, their lives here are short lived. Um, they will be, and I said, I said, I said it a bunch. I'm like, you know what, the only reason they're still here is I don't need their cages right now. Second, I need a three footer, guess who's on the job and block. It's, it's just one of those things where I tried it. I had my fun with them. They're cool animals, but they're just not for me. It just, it doesn't do anything for me. And, you know, they're, they're, they're the ones that are on the cutting room floor if you need a cage space and no one can fault you for that because you tried. If you were sitting there and you were like, I freaking hate wellness and expedites and the worst bullshit to no one should freaking buy the snakes and you've never kept one in your life. And what the heck do it? It's like, you know, you're never going to notice what you try. It's almost like certain types of food. You're never going to know if you don't like it until you put it in your fucking mouth. So, um, if you got to go try a species, give it a chance. And then if you don't like it, you don't like it. Yeah, I think like, okay, so like if you look at Bloods and Shorttails, right? So for a while, I was acquiring different types of species of pythons and kind of like on, you know, trying to see like which ones that I wanted to work into my collection and work with. And, um, you know, they stuck, they stuck because they, I should have listened to the reason why I got those animals. The reason why I got those animals is I wanted an animal with a big snake feel, but not really the maintenance of a big snake. So I should have. Yeah. So when I, when I grabbed that retake, I probably should have thought about, you know, saying, oh, yeah, I don't know if this is necessarily a smart move or not. But I don't know. I just kind of wanted to feel like what it was like to, I worked with them before and, you know, but now it's kind of like, okay, this is why I'm not working with them. But the, to all of a sudden done, the good thing about all that for me personally, is it just reinforces the species that I do work with, you know, children's Python is one of those things that probably not many people really, I mean, if you look at the reptile hobby and the whole, probably not a huge portion of the reptile hobby or into children's Python, but God damn it, man, there are cool snakes, you know, and it's something different. And I really dig them, which makes me think that I probably would like working with spotted Python's and I probably would work like working with, you know, Stimson's Python's and Pikmi Python's, I guarantee you that that would be something that would stick in my collection. But you don't really see a lot of them around, you know, to where you can, you know, that you're getting quality animals until you find people like Matthew Moyle, and then, you know, you know, where to go to get them. But, you know, I don't know, I just see that cut, and to me, like you said, again, and this is why I think like me and you working at a table is so awesome because Walmart pythons to me, I can't wait to have another pair of Walmart pythons. Oh, you know, I was jumping at the bit because they, I had a pair, I, you know, where they went, and it makes me upset. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't mention that. Moving along. But I can't wait to work with them again. I really, really can. And, and, you know, they don't want them. It's like, yeah, they're like, you just stay with them in your region. I had spotted. I hated them. Yeah, but like when you're going to work with, you know, when you're working with Don's pythons, to me, that's something that's just like, yeah, they're cool. And I'm sure that when you get them, but, but to me, the only reason why I would have them would be the fact that they were rare. And, you know, it's like, I don't know, I would much rather, you know, another one that stuck with me was Angolan pythons. I've dreamed about 10 things since I was a little kid at my first reptile show, and they were crazy expensive. But they are a cool python to me, you know, it's just like, I, you know, wow, I can't wait to breathe their breath. And I'm like, man, when you go to go and play fun, it's a fun people play fun. There's, there's, there's a lot of different stuff. And of course, everybody's tastes are different. Where I think people go wrong is, is they want to try new species, and they lose their freaking minds. So they're like, Oh my God, I love rhino rat snakes. I'm going to buy all these rhino rat snakes. I'm going to talk everything rhino rat things. I'm going to change my Facebook profile feature to a rhino rat snake. I'm going to do this, this, this. And then two months later, they're like, I don't really like rhino rat snakes anymore. Yeah, and then they sell them all. Well, yeah, I mean, that's, that's kind of like the difference, I guess that's the perfect thing. Yeah, well, it's bad to believe that there's, there's, it's perfectly okay for you to dip in and try a species. But maybe don't be an idiot about it. Like, you maybe like trying to keep it on the download a little bit, like, maybe say you pay up your parents like, Hey, I'm giving these guys a try around me. I'm playing with these right now. I mean, does anybody really know that Matt Minitole has viper bows? Right. Exactly. So, and it's like, if you were to decide tomorrow that he's like, you know what, they're not doing it for me. He could just sell them and get them going. I mean, and I've tried numerous animals and it just doesn't work. I've had one different, two different pairs of spotted pythons just didn't do anything for me. Like I said, I have that trio, Walmart's. I've had bull snakes, I've had all different types of colubrid. A few boas here and there, but it's mainly just, like you said, it also solidifies that what's wrong with you? Well, you're not a carpet python. Get out. So, it's like, you know, whatever, you find a little thing that are wrong, but then other times you find things that are awesome. Like, dude, I love my li-assers, like all of them, every single one of them, different species. And I can't wait for the day that I can fill up one of my entire tier things with different species of li-assers. Like I want my carpet python in one tier set up and right next to whom I want another tier that has the four different types of li-assers that I got, you know, so, and then possibly the fifth once the guns become mine. But anyway, it's just all that stuff right there. I think that would be awesome. You know, and then there's certain animals that I think are just cool that if I never produce, I don't ever produce them. You know, if I can, if I never get baby chondros into a display, I'm not really going to be that heartbroken about it. They're enough of you guys breathing chondros. They don't need me. So, like, that would be fun to do though. So, who knows? Yeah. Well, yeah, one of the, you know, I think one of the other things that I took away from this weekend is people seem to not be gung-ho. Well, I don't know if I can say this in general terms, but for me, I don't see, I don't see a lot of people talking about online or Facebook, like they talk about other things. But books, you know, reptile books are like, I don't know, man. To me, that's like, that's another thing that I collect is like, just different books about different species and different things. So, I've been eyeing up this book. It's Python's of Australia. It's written by Adam Elliot, and I've kind of been going back and forth whether or not, you know, I wanted to pick it up or not. Was it going to have different information in it or whatever? What a good book, man. And I highly recommend picking that up. And it's so much so that it led me to pick up Australian colubrids and alapids, which is written by Scott Eper, which is actually going to be our guest next week. So, we're going to be talking about, you know, field-herpin and Python's and stuff. But the fact that he wrote a book about that, and I don't know, I just thought if you're going to go to Australia, I think another thing that Jeff said. Yeah. A couple shows back. One of the things that Justin Julander said was that if you wanted to know more about, you know, cycle feeding and the actual seasonality of the species that you're working with, maybe look at other animals to where they're from. And maybe, you know, it doesn't have to be just reptiles. It could be birds or mammals or whatever. And you can sort of get a feel for what's going on in that environment, which may help you better understand the animal that you're working with. You know, and I thought that was just awesome information. You know, that was awesome advice. And I don't know, I just really kind of took that to heart. So, these are two awesome books. And actually, there's a whole series, you know, from this, from this group, there's one about skinks, there's one about dragons, there's one about monitors, there's one about, I think there's one about reptile medicine and just, it's just, I highly recommend taking a peek at that and possibly picking up one if you're at all into any kind of Australian reptiles. What else? I think that's really, I don't know. Well, this was a good topic. I thought when we were coming back and it kind of led me to think of things. And I don't know if you, I think you chimed in on this. Maybe you were sleeping the whole time. I was not sleeping in the way back. I didn't, I didn't walk with my bag. The whole, well, I don't know why you want to be involved in this conversation. The whole partners, right? I thought we, I thought I talked about it and made the building. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we talked about the whole, you know, getting a partnership with somebody and, you know, how does it work? And is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Some of the ups and downs and the positive and the negatives and the, you know, all that kind of stuff. I don't know. I just thought that was an interesting conversation as far as and I mean, you know, I, we know a lot of people that do partnerships, you know, a lot of people the way in a lot of things. But what I found in my own experiences that partnerships are great while everything's going great. Second things are going bad. You got a lot of hands in a cookie jar and, you know, it, it's one of those true tests of any kind of friendship or anything like that is when it starts going wrong. How does it, how does it handle how do people take it? And I found that although most partnerships succeed and a lot of work out well, when it comes to decisions of a reptile of business, it's a lot easier when you're the only cat making decisions. And it makes everything a little less smoother when you were, you only answer to you. You know, if something goes wrong, you know, think about it this way. Say you filled a rack full of, I don't know, rainbow boa. Say you bought like a really expensive like $4,000 once or something crap like that. And somebody uses the wrong stat or sets it to the wrong temperature and boom, you got a bunch of dead rainbow boa. Now, how do you recoup your money and who paid what and blah, blah, blah, blah. It's, once you start getting into, like we said before, sometimes when money's involved with stuff drama follows. So, it's very difficult. So, I don't know, I'm on my own. So, and I'm happy that way. Yeah, I am too. I, you know, I just think sometimes like, maybe it would be easier or maybe it would be, you know, you know, you'd be a little more diverse. And, you know, I guess if maybe I was doing this as a business that was my job, maybe that would be something that I would gear towards because, you know, it's, it's a lot easier to buy new projects and stuff when you're going half half and, you know, the rotor wheel is cut half and, you know, but I guess the important thing is you have to find somebody that's very equally somebody that's equivalent to what you can bring to it. Exactly. And I almost feel like what you should do is you find someone who's on your same page of care and, you know, willingness to produce and be a part of the program and your business, but maybe not have the same interest in reptiles as you do. Like don't, if you're a morality guy, don't pair up with a morality guy, maybe try to find a monitor guy you can look up with because then now you've brought an entire new species and genre to your freaking business. Because now you got a monitor guy. And like what was it about all the addiction they brought in that one guy who does the geckos and lizards? Steve. So yeah, Steve. So it's like, it's like, you just added this entire new part to your business. And, you know, it almost makes it like, okay, now we expanded. It's like, if you ever watch the companies in the real world, when they buy up other companies, some of them have to do with what they offer. But other times it's too so that they can now offer the best of a brand new product that's out there. So what are you doing? Saw on wood? No, I don't know what the hell was that a noise? Oh yeah. This new microphone picks up everything. Sounds like you saw on wood, man. Maybe I am. Maybe that's how this is my cage building. Well, there's no house building time. You don't know. I'm out in Amish Country. I got to raise barns at like 10 or 30 at night. And now you're answering that. I hope you're happy. But yeah, I mean, ultimately, yeah, I think you're right. You know, if there's so many pros and cons to it. And I know that one of the things that we were talking about was me and Zach had thought about that way back a while ago. And one of the ideas was that I wanted to have chondros represented under E.B. Morelia. But I didn't necessarily have the space to be able to devote to what I wanted to get. Now, I had the funds to do it. But, you know, I didn't necessarily have the space to do it. So I thought, man, that would be a great idea. And that's sort of what led to the whole chiquita, Molly Ringwald trade. And, you know, but the downside to it was is that, you know, he's terrified. Don't move Owen. Stay in the city. I don't want to move or breathe or do anything with this mic right now. It's like, if zero comes down, you're going to punch him in the face. I mean, like, you know, there's no noise. So, yeah. So whatever you've already sort of made a name for yourself, you know, I had done E.B. Morelia. He had done dark side exotic. So it's kind of like, do you let those go and sort of start over again? And now all the things that you build up under those two names is kind of lost. And, you know, it just makes for a very confusing type of thing. So I don't know. It's got his pros and cons. But, you know, definitely an interesting conversation to hear, you know, different points of view and different thoughts. Because, you know, the other advantage that I thought about was is that if you're working with some rare type of, you know, reptiles and bloodlines and stuff like that, you know, God forbid, you know, you say the F word, not your F word, Owen, that F word fire, you know, God forbid something like that happens, you know, at least you have some of those animals to keep those lines going. Because sometimes you may have animals that are super rare and that, you know, are really the only end your collection and nobody else really has them. That can be scary, you know, scary. And I guess you could do breeding loans or you can send animals out and not necessarily be a partner with the person. But, you know, I think that, I don't know, it's just something that people should think about, I guess. Well, it's almost like it's kind of why I prefer to be by myself. If you're by yourself, you can do projects and work with other breeders and you can kind of collaborate. But you don't ever have to give up control. It's like, and this is why people ask me if I can do breeding loans with them all the time. If I offer to take one of your animals or send you one of mine, I really trust you. It's kind of like one of those things where, and I know it happened with you a lot when you first got started. Everybody's like, well, how about this? I'll send you the animal, you breed it and we split the clutch and I'm like, well, who the hell are you? You came over to my table for 20 minutes. You didn't even say your name yet. It's like, no, I don't want to take your dirty ass animal, whoever you are. It's like, you know, and no, I don't want to send mine to wherever it is you live. So it's one of those things that like, you can kind of meet with breeders on your own level. And that's where you collaborate and that's where you actually turn out something good. And you're not really sacrificing your own business, your own thing you want to do. And it's just kind of one of those things where I almost feel like if you are going to do a joint venture, you almost both got to start off at the same time on the same foot. Because or somebody else comes into your business. It's not like, it's very rarely is it that you have two businesses that will merge in the reptile industry. And usually one of them just dissolves away, or they both start up and start at the same pace. So, but it was kind of the way to go for me. Yeah, I kind of agree. You know, you do some breeding loans and stuff and would select people. And you know, breeding loans is another thing that you really, I guess, maybe, I don't know if we've ever talked about it. But, you know, that's one of those things that if I'm doing a breeding loan with somebody, I'm kind of thinking that that animal may not be coming back to me. Yeah. I know that people have talked about, you know, poison ivy breeding loan. And although there are people out there that probably have animals that would pair quite well with poison ivy, I would never, ever, ever send her out of my collection. It just would not happen. She's just too valuable to me. I would be a fool. I think you would probably hit me on the head. And Zach would probably kick me in the ass. We're doing that. Zach, don't get the animal and bring it back and then smack you with her. I mean, it's just, it's one of those things where guys, shit happens. And sometimes there's no fault of your own and animal dies. Now imagine that being an animal that doesn't belong to you, that was in your care at the time. Now you have to take the steps to make it right. Like if I sent Eric, let's say a few years down the road when your Macs are big enough, I send you my mail Mac. And somehow he just drops dead on your watch. It's like, now who's to blame for this? Who do we talk about this? How do we make this right? How do we do this, that, and the other thing? It's, you know, because now I'm out this animal, but he could have just dropped dead of a heart attack and maybe just been unfortunate that he did it at your house. So there's a bunch of different things. Well, I guess that's why I bring up the point of saying, you know, you sort of have to think that there's a chance that that animal might not become back. You have to think about that every breeding season that there's a chance of the animal that you're putting down for winter might not be here in springtime. Yeah, but it's easier when you're doing it, you know? Oh, yeah. If you, yeah, if you're the one that does it, then obviously, you know, it's one thing. But if you send an animal out, you have to be in the mindset that that animal might not become the back, you know, and it's not do loans with people that you know, have good keeping practices. Yeah, but I guess my, my thing is, is that you could have the best keeping practices around and still things should happen. But you have to do it with somebody that you trust and somebody that you know is not trying to screw you over. And really, at the end of the day, you know, for instance, if I send you an animal and I say, okay, Ellen, you're going to breed this and this is it, you know? And, you know, the animal dies. I'm not hold it. I mean, unless I go to your place and I see like, you know, it's, you know, you're not taking care of the animals and clearly it wasn't fed. And, you know, but again, I don't wouldn't be in a breeding loan with you if that was the case. You see what I mean? So like, to me, I'm not holding you responsible for that, it is what it is. You know, I mean, it sucks, but that's part of the thing. I mean, when you're moving, you know, I don't know how Kondra people do it because I don't know if that's really a thing that they do a lot. I'm not really sure. But I can say that I would think that especially with an animal like that who would stress out easy, you know, you talk about scrub pythons, white lip pythons, you know, all these species that, you know, once you get into a rhythm and then you send it out somewhere, that's why I like my helmet hair scrub, you know? It sucks because I don't have a male and I have this female and she's so old and, you know, it's like, okay, another breeding season goes by and I don't breed her. But I don't know, you know, I'm cool with not breeding her. I just like having that animal, you know, I think it's just a cool animal. But at the same time, it sucks because maybe she's acclimated to captivity to where she would produce. Maybe she would if I put a male in there. Maybe I could get a clutch, you know, who knows, but I guess that wouldn't be a chance that I would take unless I, unless again, unless I was saying, okay, well, is the chance of me getting offspring from this animal worth the chance that I might not have it anymore. So that's something you got to look at. But I definitely would not enter into a breeding, yeah, I would not enter into a breeding loom with somebody that you don't know. And I guess people need to like not get offended at that. They just sort of have to understand that, you know, unless I'm, unless I've been to where you were at and your facility and seen with my own eyes, not pictures, not nothing like that, you know, seeing your facility and how you keep, I cannot do a breeding loom with you, you know, it's just, it's so many invitations to see people's collections now, it's ridiculous. But it's one of those things that obviously the female doesn't travel as well as the male. And, you know, I know some breeders like Andrew with his lizard, he says that if you want to do a breeding with him, that's fine. But if the female dies, you owe him the money for the female and for the next two years of clutches. And once you start saying that stuff, people tend to not want to do breeding looms with you anymore. So I think I think you just kind of uses it as a deterrent to like not to get out of it, but get out of it, which I've done it before. Somebody asked me once years ago if they could take talent for a stud for a year. And I'm like, finally, you're paying me a stub fee. And they're like, what? I'm a stud fee. It's like a horse. If you want him, you want to use him, you got to pay me money. Well, yeah, the baby's are viable. No, no, no. If you want to take him and you want to use him, you got to pay me money. Then if he if he produces babies, you got to pay me more money. Also, I won't have to clutch. So if you want to use him, he's stud fees at thousand dollars. And then if he is successful, I get an extra two. They get an extra $200 and have to clutch. So it's $12.00. So I'm just going to go buy my own Jack. Yeah, I don't know why you're talking to me. There you go. There are ways around it. There are ways to deal with it. And again, though, if you have somebody you are willing to trust, I'm sitting here right now and I got like one, two, three, like four or five animals that are out right now on loan for breeding, which I have to remember that they're still mine because I'm going to fill their cages by accident and be like, crap, when they all come home. Oh, crap that. Oh, I just remembered the blood. Oh, god damn it. Shit, I did fill her cage. All right, well, there we go. I'll talk to you. No, well, we are mad. Yeah, you seem to be very on the edge with bloods and short tails on whether or not it's a snake for you. Yeah, I tried it. You don't like me. So that's like, that's like, you may be willing to try again for some teen eggs. I'm like, if you produce teen eggs, I may be willing to let you take the big one that I ate for some teen eggs. It's like, you know, and then, yeah, maybe I'll try some baby, raising up some babies and crawl. I know a year after that, I might be like, all right, I'm done. I'm out. Tap. And then would people ask me, do you have Borneos and short tails? Like, I tried bloods, didn't like it. So I'm done. Right. Which is fine. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with that. Totally cool. But I'm not running around on the blood forums talking about how I'm the next up and comer. It's like, you know, it's that's when you go, that's where people think you're an idiot. It's like, if you're going to invest in obsessed about a species and then ditch it after a month, you're one of those things that Howard and I used to talk about it all the time. I think we still do. We call them a burner. It's a guy who comes in and spends thousands upon thousands of dollars on gorgeous animals from some of the top breeders in the country. And they're all over Facebook. They have their own website in a week and they're talking about how once they're up and breeding, they're going to set the carpet world on fire and they want to do shows. And I can't wait till next year when I'm producing my own babies and wrap this show. And some of them even make it to the point where they produce babies. But most of them, after the first attempt at breeding, and I mean, they're not just breeding like a jungle to like another jungle. Their first year breeding is this adult albino that they purchased to an adult example, super jag that was shipped over from, you know, Europe and they're going to be successful. And sometimes they are, but most of the time it really doesn't work out. And after that first year, they poured so much money into it. And of course, they've listened to everybody who says that you can become a million narrow reptiles that by the end of their first season, they are selling things and getting out. They ditch everything. And that happened a lot. So Howard and I every once in a while will talk about somebody that we see running around and we're like, yeah, it might be a burner. You know, and some people prove us wrong. I labeled you a burner in five freaking minutes after I found out you existed. So yeah, yeah, not a not a burner when it comes to carpets. I'm still waiting. I mean, you might flame out any minute, but it's only been like what? Eight years. So it's yeah, I think I'm long and any second now. So sometimes it happens. Sometimes it doesn't, but it's, you know, and that's what you got to understand is that, you know, if you're trying a new species, maybe don't run around and scream it from the hails and make it your everything. Maybe just quietly try the species. Yeah, that's kind of hard though, because when especially, well, I'll speak for me, but when you get a new species, obviously, you're pretty excited about the species to begin with. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying not getting involved in the community. I'm not saying not post up pictures in animals. I'm not saying not to try to get as much knowledge as you can from breeders that are out there. That's, no, you should definitely do all those things. I'm not saying start challenging the breeders and start talking like you know everything there is to know about this animal and saying that it is your top species of all time, only to sell it a month later. Yeah. Yeah, I can do this. But if you're, if you're just getting into species, goddamn it, be excited. You should be. Post pictures of it, talk to people who own them to breed them, we keep them, and try to learn as much as you can, because you may even have them for a shorter amount of time when you realize, oh shit, the babies, you get goes when they're born. I mean, you know, that might be what really takes that in the pants, or you might start learning more and more about them and finding out more and more interesting things and find out that you've only scratched the surface of something that may appeal to you for the rest of your life. So yeah, please God, research too. Yeah. Learn. Damn it. So yeah, it definitely is. Yeah, it's, it's one of those things I guess that. Double it. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like, you know, you want, you want to, one of the conversations that I had at Tinley in the after hours was talking to somebody and that basically was telling them, like, I think that people have this conception that if they are not a breeder, or if they don't have a big collection, that somehow they're not legitimate in the, in the reptile world. I guess, I guess maybe that may be true to a certain extent, but I got to say, man, you know, for me, I don't look at people on whether or not that, you know, they're breeding 15 clutches. And you know, somebody that sticks out in my mind, and somebody that I use as an example is, is John Pataglia. I mean, the guy has a, a very small collection in, in terms of, you know, some of the other Morelia Python people out there, but the guy has high standards, very, you know, only top notch animals. And he, he wants a collection that he personally can interact with each and every individual animal on, you know, and, and that's how he gears it towards, you know, I'm sure he could have probably, you know, got into all these different things and had this huge collection and probably would have been very successful. But you never would have known from him, from his post, from his animals. I sometimes think that somebody with a smaller collection has a bigger advantage because their collection is more focused. It's more, you know, the animals in the collection are, are sometimes of a higher quality because they've specifically, you know, they may have a female jungle that's waiting around and they don't find a male for that jungle for years. And they're not really worried about because they're looking for a specific thing. And when that animal comes, they come across, then they'll get it. Whereas other people will say, you know, I have this female jungle. And if she doesn't breed next year, then I'm sort of wasting her, it's sort of a waste, you know. And I don't know, I, I, I, I hope that people don't think that, that they have to be a breeder or have this big collection in order to be legitimate. The way you'd be legitimate is to offer something to the community to, you know, bring some, something that you've learned or, or educate people or, you know, just getting out there and being part of the community, you know, coming and hanging out with people, going to Carpafest, going to Tinley Park, you know, hanging out and having a good time and getting people, getting to know people one-on-one and, and promoting your specific projects. Maybe you don't have enough animals to fill a table and bend a show, but maybe, you know, you can hook up with somebody and they'll let you put, you know, a couple of animals that you have on their, on their table. You know, there's, there's, I just think that sometimes people think that, that there, they have to be, you know, this thing in order to be considered legitimate. And maybe that is, and maybe that is, in the ball python world, like maybe the bigger collection you have, something, you know, that's like a, beat your chest, you know, that kind of thing. But I don't know, man, I'd like to move away from that kind of thing. I just don't think that that's, the issue is like, how do we sell animals? I mean, how many people of tinley were selling animals that was geared towards, you can buy this and breed this and breed it with that and make this? I mean, how many people just sell for pet? Not a lot. Most of the time it's, people are gearing more towards breeding. So, which is fine. I'm not, I'm not saying, though, you could breed each, but you don't have to breed 50 animals in order to be legitimate. You can have free pairings and be legitimate. You're going to have, you're going to have no pairings. You're going to have a bunch of freaking females and be legitimate. It's, you can do whatever you want and you can be legitimate contender in the reptile industry. And you don't necessarily have to breed because, you know what, you may observe something out of your small collection of all female, say diamond python, that we've never observed enough and anything that might change how we see this, that or the other thing. So, don't ever think just because you don't breed that you're not significant. And don't ever think just because you breed a little bit that you're not significant. Everybody is significant in the reptile industry to us. We're nice people. So, you know, and you also don't have to breed every animal in your collection. I mean, that's another bottom line thing. So, no, you can, you can be very, should be selective. Yeah, you should be selective about it. But, but, well, thing that's circling around with somebody's like, I spoke to someone at Tinley this weekend and he informed me that you can breed a green tree python to an animal tree ball. Is this true? Or does anybody try that? I'm like, please, somebody be trolling right now, please. Just please don't let this have happened. Like, tell me it's a lie. So, crazy, ain't it? Well, yeah, remember there was somebody that came up. I don't know if this, well, yeah, I'll say I want to say it. Do it, you know. So, I'm at the table, you know, and I have. This is more of a funny story than anything, you know. I think, I think Zach was ready to punch him in square in the head. But, so this guy comes, actually wasn't a guy. He was a young kid then. He was wearing a shirt that said I am a reptile expert or something like that on it. So, it was incredible. I'm sitting there and he comes out and he's looking at the stuff I have on the table and he's like, wow, I'm just looking, looking, looking. Albino zebra jag I have on the table. I have not for sale on it. The reason I brought the Albino zebra jag is because I had a zebra jag head albino. And I wanted to show people what an albino zebra jag looked like because there's not a lot of them out there. Yeah. So, next thing I know, he says, so if you were going to sell that, how much would you sell it for? I think I said 2,500. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And he says, oh, I would think you would get more for that. And then he walks away. He walks away where you don't have any room for rebuttal or anything. He points and walks. He grabs his girlfriend by the hand and all those little buddies, they walk the hell away. And it's like, wait a minute. Look on your face. I've never seen that look on your face before. It was like pure rage. I'm like, yes. Well, you said I was, I wasn't mad. I guess it was shot. I guess what, no. You know what it what it gave me insight into is like what people deal with probably more so than I do on Facebook ever is that you have these people. Obviously this kid, I could be totally wrong on this, but I don't know who he is. Nobody in carpet road knew who he was. So I don't think he has his finger on the pulse of the carpet python morph market or the carpet python, you know, what things are what's the going rate of different morphs and whatnot. And to come along and sort of, I think, I think the thing that sort of like maybe had, maybe had that look on my face was the fact that he said it in such a way that he was saying that I didn't know what I was talking about and he would be expert. And I don't claim to be an expert at all, but it was just like kind of like, wow, like, wow, just really kind of, wow, like, you know, if you would, if you would have said something along the lines of 2,500? Wow, I thought maybe they would be worth, you know, $5,000, you know, wow, I've never seen that. Yeah, yeah. Have an exchange. No, it's what the fuck away. Yeah, it was kind of, kind of crazy. And then I just kind of took a deep breath and said the word tolerance. Well, it's funny because then you and I talked about it. And we said that, I see that at reptile shows a lot of time. We're to the point where I said, I wanted to make a sign for my displays that said whatever your boyfriend just whispered into your ear about carbon python is probably wrong. Ask the breeder. He's the guy standing behind the table. So it's, it happens more often than not. You see people pointing and talking and whispering to each other. And you say, hello, they say hello back to you. And you say, hey, if you got any questions, you're going to see the animals, let me know. They say, okay. And then they whisper and they point. And the last thing you hear is, now these things are mean. And then they walk away. Come on. And it's the people who actually start asking questions or see the animals. So the ones who actually are like, oh, my God, I didn't know. Well, yeah, or this, that and the other thing, it's, it, it's sometimes people think that they know everything because they've read about it somewhere or heard about it somewhere. And they never take the extra step. They actually learn about it from from themselves. So I understand if the next thing Adam mouth was like, you know, I held one of the show once and it bit me in the eye, then I'm like, all right, you've learned, you tried it. I can't really knock you anymore. But if you've never even like bothered asking or talking, you might be missing out on a species that you might be really enthused about. So that's my, that this is my suggestion to everybody. It is my my homework for everybody. You're going to go to a reptile show, try to find an animal you've never actually had anything interaction about, talk to a breeder, hold it once or twice, and then move on. Even if you say no or crap, whatever, just try to try to expand your horizon. Damn it. So that's your homework. I support some like desk later. Yeah. I didn't realize how late this went. I thought I'd be, you know, looking. So the time we are officially kicking off the 2016 calendar contest. As of tomorrow, we will be have everything up and ready to go. So what we decided to do, because we have 12 categories, is we have a category for Earing Jias, Darwin's, jungles, coastal's, diamonds, inland's, bread lie, chondros, rough scales, some type of morph of Morelia, and bones. We left bones in there, and Morelia, etc. So Morelia, etc, really encompasses anything other than Morelia. It has to be Morelia. Yeah. It could be an IASIS. It could be a blue type of skink. Yeah. It could be a blood python. Blood python. Yeah. Anything. A.V. you freaking won. So basically, we're a little late to the party with the calendar contest. I know. It's all right. We're going to run it from 10 tomorrow, which is what, 10-14, and it's going to close at 11-7. So November 7th at 12 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. That's when we're going to stop take submissions. And then on the 11th November 10th show, we will have the winners announced. That's always a fun show. I got to get in touch with David D, but he was the winner last year of the Morelia of the Year. He'll be coming on and guest judging. So each year we get a little bit better at this. But this year we're going to do based on three criteria. One, obviously, is the snake. So the prettier your snake is, or the better example of the species, or the more, for whatever the category is, you can get five points. The quality of the picture is the animal in focus, is the lighting good, is the pose good, et cetera, et cetera. Another five points. Creativity of the picture. Basically, that will break down to something other than I don't know. Is it in a tub? Is it in a tree? Is it, you know, the action shot? Yeah, blah, blah, blah. So, creativity, be creative. I know in years past, like Wayne Larks, he put, he had some exam tick out on a fence and, you know, he had some red flowers on the tree or something that really made the animal up and, you know, just things like that. One over water. Yeah. Yeah. So, based on that, then you get the five points. Obviously, we're all going to judge and put our, you know, put our thoughts based off of that criteria, give a score, the person with the highest score, and obviously, you know, based on the fact that we will be scoring it, obviously, you know, so you could have a really, really nice snake. But if you don't take a good picture of it, yeah, it might not win, you know, that kind of thing. We're looking for really quality pictures, calendar quality pictures as well. It is going on a calendar, yeah. So, you know, take your time, do it right, and, you know, obviously use a camera other than yourself. I mean, it's that kind of stuff. Yeah. Once you guys try, we want it to look good, you know, and then that's the worst one. We've had several animals that have been like killer animals that are just like pictured in like their tub or, you know, it's all crappy and grainy, and it's like, I would love for this thing to be a part of the calendar, but the picture is a piece of shit. So, correct, you know, take your time, do it right. Right. So, what happens then is, is that all those categories, so, if somebody were to win the Eerie and Jaya category, they're going to get their picture in the calendar, and then you also are thrown in for a chance to win the, what do you call it, the Morellia of the Year. So, basically, at that point, then we then judge from the 12th, which is the Morellia of the Year, you know, and it could be an iJ, it could be a carpondro, it could be a Bolins, it could be whatever, but whatever it is, that's, that's how that happens. So, what do you win? Yeah, best in show, I guess you would say so much. Well, I mean, it's funny you said that you and I were talking earlier and you said that we're including this Morellia, et cetera category this year, you're like, does that mean that Morellia of the Year could be like a false kiss? And I'm like, if the Morellia people don't get off their asses and take good pictures, yeah. So, don't let that happen. Don't make a sense. Yeah, god damn it. So, basically, I know we've done different things to where what people win, and that, that, that, that, but see, this is where it costs us money. You win a free calendar if you are in the top in the 12th and chosen, and then you win the chance of Morellia of the Year, and if you win Morellia of the Year, basically what we do is we make up a trophy, which for some reason I don't know, I didn't get the one from last year, so I got to get on that and see what happened. We get a Morellia trophy of the Year, which is basically just, you know, Morellia Python radio, the Year, and the picture, and it's in a nice little, you know, trophy thing. If you're at a show, whatever, you know, what does it mean? I don't know, maybe you want to put in your snake room. You can post it up. Maybe it doesn't be shit. I don't. Anyway, so, you know, then, then you get that, and I guess the cool thing is, is that for the following year in 2017, you get to come back and you get to be a guest judge for the next year. So, that's kind of the stipulations. As far as the rules, where the big thing is, is that we're just trying to get people to like the Facebook page. So, I guess the most important thing is, is that you have to like the Facebook page. That's number one. So, if you're not liking the Facebook page, then we're not going to count it. Okay, you're good. And that's where the everything is going to be, so that you can go and post up your pictures there. The way I had it last year is it's like individual categories, like individual albums, and then you can go and post it up there. So, I'll put the links up, etc. And we'll go, we'll go from there. What else? Like we said, calendar quality picks, no cell phone picks, no tub shots, all that kind of stuff. And it must be an animal that you own. It can't be somebody else's snake. It has to be your snake. However, somebody else can take the picture. That's not a problem, because maybe you're not the best photographer, but you have the best Moralia, whether it's carpet, python, condro, whatever. If you get somebody to come along and take the pick, just make sure that they are giving permission for you to submit that, because it's going to go into calendar. And it's also going to go on the Moralia Python radio.com banner at the top. So, sometimes that can be tricky. Certain photographers may copyrights or whatever. We're not going to pay somebody to use the picture. So, you have to make sure that they're okay with you letting you submit it and put the picture in a calendar and not expect royalties or anything like that. So, let's see. What else do we got? Basically, that's it. If you have any questions or anything like that, you can always shoot an email to an info@moralia, pythonradio.com. It should be cool. It's cool to have a calendar. We keep one of your animals in it. Everybody needs a calendar, especially in your snake room. You can write upcoming shows. You can also write, you can also write when you saw lockups and ovulations and all that kind of stuff. And it's always good. I know Owen, he's always writing all over his, all his shows and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, all my hat states and things like that are on there. So, when the hell I see anything happening. So, yeah. That's a cool thing. It's just something to, yeah, and you don't have to be from the U.S. You know, I mean, the first year we kind of did it and it was kind of weird. We kind of split it up because it was, you know, we had the winners from Australia. Obviously, we can't send animals. And then we did one year where it had animals. Well, those animals made it back to me, you know, and so then we thought maybe that's not the way to do it. Let me stop that. So, I guess just make it simple. You just get the award, the trophy, whatever, and you get the calendar. So, if you win and your picture is in the calendar, you get a free calendar. So, that's kind of how it goes. And then, you can, and then if you win them really a year, you can come back and judge next year and you can, yeah, other fun stuff. What sucks is that if you're, if you're a judge, you can participate. Like this year, Dave D cannot participate and you and I can never participate. So, that's always the terrible part. Yeah, which sucks because, you know, kind of pictures is a cool thing for me, but it is what it is. I don't want it to be ever to where our animals, you know, people may think, oh, well, you know, it's fixed or whatever. So, we just sort of stay out of it and let somebody else let it go and go into the spotlight. So, so, yeah, so that'll be up tomorrow. As soon as I get home from work, I'll post it up and then we can start the contest. So, probably later, later evening, you know, early evening, I'll look for that. That's probably when most of you will be listening to this podcast anyway. So, later, if you're listening to it on Wednesday, later today. I think that's all I have. We're still up in the air for the guest next week, but the following week on the 28th, that's when we have Scott Eaper coming on and we'll be talking about field-herping Australia. So, it should be, it should be a fun show. So, if anybody has questions or any kind of things that they were curious about as far as field-herbing in Australia would go, send them over. You can PM them to me or Owen or you can just send them to info@maraleopythonbrator.com and we'll be sure to ask Scott all about it. We're going to get a, you know, sort of a, sort of, like, pictures hopefully going during the thing. I guess we'll probably be posting them up in our group message and on our Facebook page as it's going through. So, if you want to get in on the group message, just send me a message and I'll add you in. But, I'm at the group messages on Facebook. I know he had two different people who were, like, thinking it was over on Blog Talk. It is on Facebook. If you want to be in the group message, just send us a PM and we'll make sure you're included in next week's group message on Facebook. Yeah. So, that's really all I have and we'll just go through the closing. I don't know if you have anything else Owen. I got nothing. Okay. So, please check out our website maraleopythonradio.com. If you want to get in touch with us, send us an email at info@maraleopythonradio.com. You can follow us on our Facebook page, which is maraleopythonradio on our Twitter page at maraleopython. If you want to do some research on carpets or other maralia, be sure to check out the forum, maraleopythons. There's a ton of info there, a ton of back history and everything that you would need in order to answer some questions that you may have about carpets or chondros or rough scales or whatever the case, but be sure to check it out. Also, if you are a seller or if you're looking for some nice maralia, be sure to go over and check out the Facebook group page reader direct maralia python classifieds. That's where you're getting an animal directly from the person that produced it. No flippovers. No, I bought this animal. Now, I'm selling it. This is something that that person produced. They can show you a picture of the parents and all that kind of stuff. So, what the hell are you doing again? Nothing. Muted. Yeah, you can check out that Facebook group page for some cool stuff that tons of cool people over there post, no doubt. And our Facebook group page really is maralia pick of the week. You can go over there and check out all the different carpets, chondros, everything. It's a really cool group of people and you get to see some really cool maralia. So, if you're not a member, send us a request and we can hook you up. Let's see, what else. I think that's except for me, eB maralia. Check out my website eB maralia.com. You can follow me on my Facebook page at eB maralia. I'm also on Instagram and Twitter under eB maralia. Any of those things, you know, I have some animals available. If you're interested, shoot me an email at eric@eb maralia.com or I also place ads both on my Facebook page and in the breeder direct maralia python classifieds. That's all I have. What do you got on? What I got is you can check us out at rogue-reptiles.com or you go on Facebook.com, sort of rogue-reptiles. Currently, we have this Saturday is the Hamburg reptile show for us and I think that'll be the last show we have until what the hell is it, a cover. That'll be the last show I think we'll have till December. So, if you're going to be, what? December, right? Yeah, December. Yeah, yeah. So, if you're going to be in the area or you're going to be at the show, step by the table, say hi. We should still have a few things left, but we are kind of running the logo on babies at the moment. We got away for the 2016s. I did draw up our pairs 2016. I've not announced them quite yet because I'm not really sure what we're doing by far of everything, you know, breeding wise, but we will talk about those in the next coming weeks. So, keep an eye field for that. If you want to be on any list, just let us know. And yeah, that's all I got. So, what I will say is if you're coming to Hamburg, I'll see you Saturday. If not, we'll catch everybody back here next week for some more Moralia Python radio. Good night. Hey, Chad Brown here. You may remember me at the linebacker in NFL, where's the reptile breeder and their owner of Projekt. I've been hurtful since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptile. I also love to encourage the joy of breeding and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Markle and I created the reptile report. 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