Morelia Python Radio

Centralian python talk with Nick Mutton

In this extra episode we are joined by Nick Mutton from Inland Reptile. Nick has one of the best bredli collections in the states, possibly even the world. He works with different bloodlines and morphs and has some of the nicest examples of this often overlooked species of python. www.inlandreptile.com

Duration:: 2h 17m
Broadcast on:: 05 Sep 2015
Audio Format:: other

Hey Chad Brown here, you may remember me as a linebacker in NFL, where as a reptile breeder and their owner of Projak. I've been hurtful since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breeding and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Markham and I created the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news. Photos and links we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. The reptile report offers powerful branding and marketing exposure for your business and the best part is it's free. You're a buyer or breeder, you gotta check out the reptile report marketplace. The marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling definition full of features that help put you in touch with the perfect deal. Find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system, search by sex, weight, more, or other keywords, and use our Buy Now option to buy that animal right now. Go to marketplace.the reptilereport.com and register your account for free. Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptiles account to earn free tokens with each shipping label you book. Use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum med. It also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page. Buy and sell it. You ship your reptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rate. Ship your reptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use ship your reptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. The materials needed to ship your reptiles successfully, live customer support, and our live on time arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptilereport.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace. Find that perfect pet or breeder. Then visit shipreptiles.com to ship that animal anywhere in the United States. We are your one-stop shop for everything reptile related. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Hello everybody. Welcome to a third episode of Moralia Python Radio for the Week. That's right oh and we've hit three episodes in one week. It's pretty nuts. There's nothing left. There's nothing left to say. I thought you caught on my head. The problem is that we used to come such people in Moralia that I'm now like trying to feel eight different things at once right now and of course I'm meeting with a long freaking time. Oh that was classic. Yeah I know you're over there. You're over there. I am trying to run five again because you dragged me into all this bullshit so I have to now weigh in on things and radio show on a Friday. So I've said my piece and now I'm putting my phone over there. Anyway yes it's a third episode of the week which is like obviously we're now way too good to you people because we were bad. We didn't have a show for a week so we felt like we needed to make it up to you and then of course Nick mutton calls us the other day and we decided to do a third episode because we are again just far too good to you people. So that's right. Here we are again. Yes like I told you when we miss an episode we bring you three in replacement for the fact that we missed one episode again like can we never do that again. Yeah I'm trying to teach you a lesson though and I'm trying to teach you a lesson. Yeah yeah yeah we do not miss episodes it just doesn't happen but um why can we keep doing multiple episodes a week so maybe I don't think we should afford it. I told her about the weekly the whole week of episode. She just kind of looked at me with it with a look. Yeah yeah you see me. Yeah so yeah yeah so I got a lot of good feedback about our little uh ranch um the other day on Monday um it was kind of uh the reviews were that pretty much that we were really funny which is good. Yeah we have time with definitely tragic but yeah yeah it was uh people were contacting me yelling at uh yelling as they drive listening to the podcast. That's right man that's right all fired up. We saw several accidents and you know on the way to work we apologize if that happened. So uh yeah and uh I'm working uh we were uh like I told you we got the rough scale show in and I think at the end of the month we're going to have a imprecata show. So yeah that's your episode. Yeah so but tonight we have yeah but tonight we have uh Nick mutton uh you may know him from multiple things when it comes to carpet pythons uh from anything from the complete carpet python inland reptiles having probably would you say one of probably the biggest carpet breeder in the US um not to mention the fact that he has his own podcast uh which I actually it came out today he had Travis Wyman on and uh I started listening to it but you know it really makes me feel like I'm stupid. I listened to the podcast with Nick and him because you know they're talking about like genetics that just on a whole not a level. You know it's like all right. I'm thinking I have to listen to this about four times but uh but that's half of this so yeah it's one of those things. But you know um I think there comes a point when uh you you you work with reptiles for for any length of time and you're trying to constantly take it to the next level and learn more and and and really push the envelope uh of how we understand these animals. So I think that uh that's what he's doing. So I don't know if you've uh I'm sure if people listen to this podcast that they've heard Nick's podcast over on herb nations Nick mutton show and he also does uh blogs and um when I think of uh breadles centurion pythons however you want to put it um Nick pretty much comes to mind. I think he's pretty much the guru when it comes to them. Yeah I think way ahead of everybody else with consistent breeding and having good yield but then also he's way ahead of everybody when it comes to the genetic morphs and the designs that he has that he's you know playing with you know uh he used to be just striped in a brittle and then of course we got into the hypo's and the stone washes and all those stuff and Nick has them all and he's playing with all of them. So in the next few years if you've not really been paying attention to centurion too much in the next few years you're going to start seeing some insane stuff and most if not all is going to come right out of Nick stuff. So you know yeah hypo striped stone wash. I mean like my brain can't even wrap around with the hell that's gonna look like. Would that be head for hippopotamus own or is that? No no no no I reserve that crap for your mixed blood stuff that's all but your brittle. No see that's the uh that's the line in the sand that I don't cross for some reason that's the line that I can't. I can't do it. I can't do it. It doesn't take a hypo stone wash stripe and cross it with a jag. It makes no sense at all. It doesn't make any sense. I'm not saying that it's logical. My decision is logical but for some reason uh anything I just can't. It was a cross. That's Italy. That's Italy. You and I were walking around with cross this one table that had opulot uh brittle jags and you're like that's just thick and you walk away. I was like what? Wait a minute there. Three sub-tweets of carpet rolled into one for sale on your table but somehow this is the line that you don't cross. That would upset you. So yeah it was you know um yeah well we have Nick on the line so let's get him on. Hey Nick welcome back to the show. Hey. How's it going? Oh good good. I've uh had a rough go over the last few weeks here so I was pretty happy when I got the clutch results and I thought you know what I'm gonna call your Birkin tell them all about this but if anybody could appreciate it uh you guys and since you at least respect that kind of invisible boundary and don't mix breadels into other stuff I mean so. Are you a soldier, Tanya? Yeah everybody's got to be a line. There's got to be a line somewhere right? That's my line. I'm going to keep something. It's got to be safer. Geez. Let's make that line at the full species level and then yep you know it makes sense. I think that sometimes uh I don't know for people that just get into carpets. I think sometimes because uh brettles get lumped in with carpets. Obviously they're sister species. Two carpets they're really always have always have been a full species. I mean isn't that right? They've always been there. Yeah it's the weirdest so I don't know why. They were originally classified as a full species by gal you know 35 years ago or so 34 years ago and they have always been a full species. They have never at any point ever been a subspecies for some reason that's inexplicable to me. A few authors mostly Australian authors kind of just decided to just in their opinion for no particular reason they just decided to make them a subspecies and they never really offered any justification for why they should be a subspecies not a full species just it's a subspecies and that was just kind of uh with no real you know you know no real case to be made other than just you know in their opinion um you know because all the morphological data and everything and when they were classified all you had was morphology didn't have you know DNA wasn't really a tool used in taxonomy at that point but just based on body morphology I mean they're completely geographically isolated they are morphologically very different and that was enough and as it should be and then you know and then but not for everybody and so some people still you still see you know spelota, breadly you know periodically uh and stuff and it's just that is not now the case nor was it ever the case right they were correct got it right the first time they were a full species and when the DNA evidence came in they were you know it was you know unbelievably clear that they are a full species it's not even close it's not like they're almost you know just it's not it's not a it's not controversial at all the DNA you know it's completely uh you know consistent with the morphology these are absolutely deserving of full species status as is in ricotta for that matter so it's uh right why some people cling to the uh cling to that i don't know and stuff i mean even if you look at like the keeping and breeding Australian python which is a pretty good book as a whole it's kind of an amalgam of you know each chapter is by a different person so it's kind of i mean it's the pacing is a bit uneven because it's you know you have continuity problem with different people writing different writing styles and it's kind of put together assembled kind of uh but the chapter on brettles is like right there really is spelota breadly and it just was like you know it's like no oh god damn it and even addresses it in the chapter it says you know some people because there's a full species but i think it's a subspecies but no it didn't bother uh why you know like in light of overwhelming in spite of overwhelming morphological energy that it kept into the contrary i'm just gonna stick to my gut and it's a subspecies so whatever i'm gonna feel it feel it in my gut that's what it is you know but uh after working with these things for as long as i have i'm really convinced the snakes don't really care what we call them yes uh yes they are what they are whether you know this distinction rises the level of you know giving it a different made-up name that we put on things doesn't really matter the snakes are very different and you know it's uh i mean obviously you you see a common ancestry in them but it's they are technically they're the sister species to all the carpets so if you have a fork and med family tree you've got brettles on one side and everything else on the other um they're sister lineage to all the other the spelota clade but uh they're pretty neat anybody it's got them they become kind of an instant favorite for the position and all of that the fact that you really can't kill them without having a shovel in your hand i think by the way they're gonna kill more if you kill one adult brettles by the end you have achieved a feat that i have never been able to figure out because i think everyone i have ever had is still alive i mean they're literally indestructible animals right but uh which makes them the perfect uh pet and you know what's weird is the fact that yeah with the red color and everything you would think that people people would just be like you know blown away by that because you don't see that too much in pythons and uh you know no i think i think a lot of people are kind of i don't know put us probably not the right word but it's uh though a lot of people are well frankly just unsuccessful breeding them i mean it's like a jumping cart but it's pretty easy to breed you can't quite breed a carpet python on accident but you almost could breed them on accident like if you had the right if you're just doing things just wrong enough you could probably just accidentally get a clutch of good eggs i mean it's like they're pretty easy to breed i mean i breed a lot of them and i'm i'm happy every time i hatch some eggs but it's not really a great accomplishment to get a clutch of coastal carpets by and large or whatever it's pretty they're pretty they they're very cooperative they really want to get it done they just got to like kind of get out of their way almost and they'll just do it uh brettles you know are more difficult to breed and i don't think it's difficult it's just that it's different and people kind of uh they have the the tried and true formula for breeding you know other carpets and they just want to keep plugging that in it's a carpet it's a carpet it's a carpet so i want to treat it like a jungle carpet and that doesn't work that well right you can do that and you will occasionally get some babies i mean you will not always fail if you treat them like every other carpet then you will you will on occasion get something but you will not consistently year in and you're out get awesome results you will something that you will get hit or miss kind of intermittent with varying degrees of you know fertility you'll get you might get something sometimes but you will not consistently get awesome results and stuff they're you know it's but i don't know i mean even people even people that i've sold babies to like sometimes strike out and it's like man i told you exactly what to do it because there's nothing i mean it's like it's like i told you exactly the recipe and then i published it in a book and then it wrote it in an article i was not a secret i mean if i could just do this work great virtually like clockwork it almost always works like i'm surprised if a female doesn't lay a clutch like i had two reabsorbed follicles this year about crap my pants i'm like do you get me right like i didn't really fake me out and then didn't lay a clutch but never happens like i mean that happens with other things once in a while but i was like just shocked i mean it's if i you know if i try to breed eight females and i don't get at least seven clutches i'm almost pissed i'm like i just the fat predictable if you do the right things it's just it literally you can about set your watch by it so i don't know you ever i mean you're rarely strike out but i think that kind of and some people's minds you get people get discouraged they get these things and then like a year and a half they grow like we the year and a half later they're ready to breed and they don't do anything and then in two and a half years old they don't do anything and they're three and a half years old they're not even cycling them right at all and they still didn't do anything and then they get frustrated and sell them off because they didn't breed them and it's like you know between them not maturing until they hit about four years old and there seems to be no way to cheat the system that age is much more of a factor with them than that is with other carpets and stuff it's like that you're gonna allow for that and they need to be a little bit bigger at sexual maturity you know whereas they're you know i've seen jungles and coastals breed at 500 grams per male that brettles you know you're you're probably pushing a pound for males which isn't a big snake at all it's just a little bit bigger in females you know seeing female jungles i mean i bred one shockingly small kind of an accident one year but uh you know under a thousand even but you know 13, 14, 1500 grams like clockwork will breed and brettles you know you probably want a couple thousand grams so a little bit you know a year or two older a couple of hundred grams bigger and stuff and that's and then you know treat them like what they are it's the old trying to put the round peg in the square hole it's like treat it like a jungle carpet treat it like a brettles python it works really good it's like trying to well it's like you're you know one's like a subtropical kind of you know winter breeder that you know and then one's a spring breeding much more extreme climate that is a spring breeder and everything it's you know much cooler well people like you know i mean most people what's the standard python breeding recipe doesn't matter for the jungle carpet or or anything it's yeah do you cool this stuff down at night to keep in the 80s a day drop them down about 70 degrees at night do that for a couple months check them together about halfway through it'll do their thing you know no problem and that works pretty good for you know a lot of stuff that's that i mean it's pretty surprising that that basic theme that works really well but yeah yeah i mean that's kind of uh i mean it works better for something for others but it's fairly effective i mean um brettles pythons 70 degrees fahrenheit is an app is the average that's the average nighttime low in the heat of summertime where these things live that's like so if you drop them to 70 degrees they didn't even notice like that's like nothing that's that's an average summer evening they're still looking for food you know you don't even notice i mean you don't need to put them in the refrigerator or anything but i mean it's like that's that's nothing to them and stuff so you get a bit take them a bit cooler a little bit longer and kind of give them a good you know because they're just kind of estimate anyway they're just crawling to a tree hauler or a rock pile and just hunker down for a few months or not like cruising around the dead winter it's just it's not very you need to play through you know temperatures get down into the 40s at times and stuff and that's not very conducive to pythons doing a whole lot so right it's also obviously why you can't seem to kill the things i mean they're just literally just about bullet proof yeah i tell people if they want a carpet or something as you know they want to get in the first carpet and everything it's like get one of these it's like they're personable they're docile you can't kill them they need no humidity requirements whatsoever not that the others are very demanding of humidity but with these guys being effectively desert adapted species like you just get ignore that entirely it's like you just you know it'll never get sick you can't kill it it'll never have a bad shed it'll never turn down a meal and it'll never bite you it's pretty good and they turn a reddish kind of color and play it yeah they get it pretty tall that's a pretty good deal you know yeah uh they're uh they're uh yeah i mean i guess never's probably not the right word but it's it's you know pretty close i mean it's i got bit i got a horrible bite from enough for his female adult on the finger the other day i don't know what i was thinking that i total rookie mistake we've all done this i know if you guys tell me you haven't done it you're damn liars i had been feeding and feeding the babies this time your takes two days because there's like 600 smeg babies so it's like a two day it's a two day job because you're just following like five gallon buckets full of hopper mice and you don't want to you can't once you fall off frozen road and you've got a bit of a shelf life issue you can't you don't want to waste it you can't just like be playing musical chairs with it forever it's like you got the clock ticking it's something to eat better it's gonna have to get tossed so you don't fall 600 at once because it takes hours to get through them you saw that you know i'm falling like 150 at wack and i'm doing that in stages and trying to get babies that haven't fed to eat and so it's it's a bunch of work but uh doing all in the dark with the headlamp on too but i had been hundreds of hopper mice and buckets full of thought of a water warm water to warm up to both ambient you know it works better for them once it happens so i've got like mouse water just all over my hands all day and i know why i checked on to see it looked like you're doing something i kind of opened the cave like a dummy and you just latched onto that warm mouth with the pie fingers i guess that my hand that smelled completely of mouse water i mean it's like the bony's rodents and we just literally trying to eat my fingers like bed was not letting go and we just get to like she was gonna kill my hand and swallow it i think just the total food responding to such an idiot like how many times i gotta learn that lesson apparently one more uh but uh give me that hat but i found my best trick for that this is a little tip if you haven't heard of this one just take a little you have an alcohol sanitizer hand sanitizer which everyone should have in their snake room anyway but take a little dab of that on your other hand that isn't being constructed by the snake and just put it right by their nostril oh man they hate that they will recoil and let go and let oh they will fall out just flee like the smell of that alcohol it's so abhorrent of them but if you put it right by their nostril and they're like nine times a ten meters immediately let go un-nook their teeth and like and get away from that and stuff that works really good yeah so there's your tip of the day if you're ever so stupid as to stick your hand and they completely the most placid snake ever but i'm like she's you know i got sight of the snake on this one well it's moving around like a rodent certainly smells like one and it's warm like one it's like well must be food i mean check three wonderful years though wonderful as they are they're not the brightest uh you know creatures probably so i can't believe fault the fault the snake i'm ambushed yeah i was like oh man that's like and then you just in there like i've got two problems i got the pain of this thing latch onto my fingers and then this total overwhelming feeling of that i'm a dumbass or because it's clearly you know my own stupid fall i'm like i don't even have anybody to blame things like that are so much better when you can blame the other guy oh yeah damn it oh it's fault damn it you know it's like nope just me i'm the only one here i'm an idiot nobody look at me a little more on you know it's i mean it's like oh i'm gonna go i'm doing for the next 10 minutes you know but uh oh yeah my uh when i was when i was young and um my dad was just getting me into snakes uh he did that but he did it with a Burmese python uh well yeah it worked he helped come up stairs and he's down the basement and this thing just uh it was like uh well he's as bad as tall as me so we're hobbit height you know and the cape is up up in the air you work five seven five seven oh i'm actually taller you're actually i you know at first i think in the world i'm taller than i'm five eight finally knows somebody shorter than me yeah so we're thick Eric we're thick see we may not have the we don't have the altitude but we got uh you know that's true with the girth that didn't sound good but uh well changes moving on back to the Burmese python story yeah meanwhile back to the Burmese python story yeah he went to feed a rabbit he threw it now this is uh probably i would say probably between 15 and 18 foot um it's a big big female and he threw in the rabbit and the snake just saw the motion boom latch down to him constricting his arm uh you know he falls onto the ground he's screaming for me to come down and i'm a little kid i'm like what the hell you want me to do i don't know what to do i thought the snake seed my dad i'm freaking out oh my god she was crazy my mom comes running she's like i told you not to have these snakes you know it's a big big to do oh my goodness what uh yeah i feel like yeah yeah i mean we all we all make those mistakes with them of course yep it's like you would nick here we all have to learn the same thing like four times like i need to think i mean they're the same mistake nick did this winker was one of my bridal which i'm like are you still hungry and she just nails my hand i'm like yep you are so what is it in December so yep i'll probably make that same mistake again in a couple months too i'm like oh yeah that's right well you get kind of like very complacent when you work with a lot of these snakes for a long time you get almost too comfortable and you just kind of get maybe it's cocky or something i don't know but like yeah it might smell like mice in the room but i'm not going to get tagged by an adult oh yeah you will i mean it's yeah yeah you know if it's like my brits bains or something that kind of looked at you a little shifty it's probably you would never happen but the brettles are just so docile you just like you think you can be sloppy and don't get away with it it's like oh wait oh wait you do have a food response that's right so so awesome i've never been bitten by one unprovoked that's my fault oh no well that's good that's good to know uh yeah they're they're pretty chill uh huh like i said i i think more people would uh you know uh appreciate them i guess maybe i i don't know it just seems like i think to me i don't know if you get this question a lot Nick but it seems like people think they get huge like you know i have a lot of people that contact me and say they get 10 feet 12 feet which is not the case right no i mean i've never i've got a genuine 8 foot female but to be honest and she's a good she's a big heavy girl but she is i bought her from k i went to kc's and picked her out of all the stripes he produced in 2002 so she's 13 years old and then at one point had like a four-year stretch where i didn't try to breed her i gave her four years off basically the day i got my male hypo i quit breeding that snake and waited so that i didn't want any possibility of sperm storage at all so i waited until he was a mature so she had like all like four seasons off prior to that so there'd be no nothing clouding the waters when i bred them together and everything i've got her grandchildren that are breeding now so i don't really need to but it means she's she's a pretty big you know snake but you know it didn't like just spring up one day and end up that big as you're 13 years old and i probably was a little too generous with the food in the early days and everything so right i don't i can't imagine any other ones are going to get that big now but they're i mean they're if you'd love to meet with all the other carpets they are probably the largest carpet that most people have access to because they're they're going to be a little bit larger than your average coastal carpet most of our coastal carpets really aren't that big as you probably noticed it's like it's not really a very big snake the brettles is comparable in length but it's probably slightly just slightly heavier bodied you know if you had a right six-book coastal to six-book brettles you know generic us lineage coastal the brettles are probably way about 10-15 percent more this is a little bit chunkier and stuff but not like not it's not i mean i can see that because i have so flipping many of them i think i've probably got 14 adult i think i have 14 adult brettles alone and that doesn't count all the ones that are coming up and stop so i mean i mean how a lot of them over a period of years they are a little girthier they had to get a little chunkier and stuff but they're not not not tremendously so right but uh yeah now they're not sure if you would consider having a jungle carpet as a pet you shouldn't decide difference is not significant enough over that to where it even matters like you know right you know they'll be happy to stay five feet long the same as everything else you don't have to let even if they could get seven feet you don't have to let them get that big i don't why people think that i mean it's oftentimes better for the animal they kind of keep them a little bit smaller i mean because any animal and humans for that matter once you get to kind of that you know exceptional size for whatever the species is that tenders not to not be the key to longevity does it you know look at you know what every seed really really huge human beings they tend to not live very long do they you know right the bigger you are you tend to it says a an adverse effect on life expectancy look at dog breeds what's the longest lived dog breed at chihuahua the smallest what's the what are the shortest lip breeds mastiffs great Danes the bigger they are the shorter the life is like a smaller than a longer to live and you see that all the time even in human beings who are the longest lived people in the world for the record if people in Okinawa why because you know your small body size low caloric intake live a long time big giant people tend to not live very long it's like just google dead professional wrestlers you'll think they're all dead right you're all dying but if you're a big giant human being you won't you don't i mean i'm not going to live as long as oh and probably i mean it's the bigger you are it's just that's just biology and how it works i mean so making your snake this enormous i mean making it unnatural large is not you're not doing it any favors you're really really not i mean that's uh so i tend to keep things just big enough to get the job done is what i like so females will lay more exit they're larger but i don't i mean i don't ever i mean i don't want them to get too big um in males i want to be just big enough to barely do the deed because anything else is just kind of uh you know the little males are better anyway than most things yeah we do little hungry males little males that are kind of on the lean side a little bit hungry and just barely has the ones to get it done and they live forever and they really like crazy me don't take up much space or resources or time or anything big giant big fat males tend to not breed very well don't just kind of sit around just you know like people i guess and we are all right and i say that as a reformed big fat guy i mean it's like it's true i mean it's like i do a lot more now than i did a hundred pounds ago you know i tell you it's uh it's like it's true i mean it's you a lot of people it's like you can take you know whatever you're looking at and analyzing with these animals you can usually put that in kind of those usually human equivalent or analogy you can make and it works the same for us too it's a matter of what it is i mean it's there's color morphs of human beings there's like five different there's like five different types of albinoism in humans there's a human there's two different human pie ball genes i mean we've got we've got morphs too i mean you know any phenomenon like one of the ones we could probably talk about today and stuff like this is a blog post on it and everything uh that you know and had it did a episode of my show on it that's complicated but happens and so i mean these things you know that stuff happens in people we're not different the rules are the same for everything so it's uh we like to look at the snakes but this stuff happened with with with us as well i mean stuff there's chimeric human beings and and all of that kind of stuff too so well speaking of this is i was going to say speaking of morphs you're you know you had this awesome clutch uh yeah i wanted to tell some people i was like so you ever get to that point you're feeling kind of down about whatever and then you just really need kind of a win you know what i mean yeah i need a win here and i got the big win i finally uh the stonewash gene is a new recessive brettlesbibon mutation i actually proved it with genetic two years ago uh but being kind of paranoid and i'm just kind of naturally always kind of the pessimists uh and i'm always trying to disprove things i guess so you always uh and this was the always going to be the year that i really you know have a potential to uh to drive this one home and stuff so while i proved that two years ago i proved that kind of in the minimalist sense and that like okay they're really i've removed whatever other possibilities realistically you know exist it has to be recessive because the only thing left that makes me sense but you can always kind of concoct other there's there's always some weird scenario that however unlikely it might be as confievable possible so in the back of my mind i'm thinking like at some point i got to sell hits and you put in your name and reputation online if you're selling it it needs to be what you are selling it as or that's a really big problem you've created and we live in a hobby where people just willy nilly i mean you can buy it there's i could give you names of four or five ball python mutations you can go buy that don't actually even flip and exist they're literally figment the people's imaginations but they'll sell you one i mean so that oh yeah there's a bunch of them too it's like it's just insane it's and you know you want to be a very firm footing when you say this is a new recessive gene here it is here's all the results that did all the appropriate test readings proved this out the the correct way you know and i got the results i was hoping for actually kind of crush the odds really uh because up until now this mutation has popped out in the same exact year in two different collections uh brian bar check hatched out what appears to be the same thing i no doubt the same thing and i've got these another guy hatched about and i obtained the whole project from a guy named next dark uh many you know some years ago and stuff and but until them up until you know last week every animal that carries this phenotype has been produced from like one pair of heads over there and a pair of heads i've got here and stuff this was the first time anyways i was actually bred a second generation breeding i had visual homozygot presumed homozygous males that i was able to breed and i got exactly a second you know anyway in the second generation i did another series of test readings that exactly what i was supposed to get so at this point it's it's absolutely cut and dry it is a recessive gene there is no there it can't be anything else i mean there's no other uh you know other possibilities even however remote at this point so i did uh i did breed a visual male to uh the original head female and i got 19 eggs and i nailed it i got 15 14 visuals out of 19 eggs so oh wow and you can tell it a mile away like you don't got to look very i mean it's not like some subtle thing we gotta kind of squand and there's nothing no intermediate phenotype it's like all or nothing it's really obvious so i was uh really really i even didn't get killed on the sex ratio i got like virtually even on across all the clutches everything's you know finally didn't usually to put the even if you get something good it's like you know they're all male or all female or some weird right you know something you can get kind of hose on that but 7.7 perfect ratio of them i've got a clutch of you know i made a clutch of heads i bred an unrelated female to the homozygous male and got absolutely nothing i got you know 17 completely normal heterozygous animals you know i bred a different homozygous male to a genetic stripe female again i got eight and i got oh i got 18 babies out of uh 17 eggs well the second time i've ever had twin brettles and all the first time was in 2004 right and not a single and i can't even begin to tell you how many i've never had less than two clutches of brettles in in the last 11 years and i've you know some years there was maybe two it was never less than two but i have literally you know last years have been between five and seven the last several years so that's a lot of brettles that never had twins because they don't seem to do that with any regularity they've got twins but again the double heads all completely normal phenotype no there is you know there is no uh no in between no incomplete dominant no multi locus nothinets you have it or you don't and you got to get it from two animals that carry this gene so it's uh a very very much uh cemented that it's recessive and this is the year that i actually can let something go uh it seems like i've had these things for ever well maybe they take four years to mature so it's like it's a slow burn it's not like a you know a zebra jungle or a jag or you get a male and 18 months later you're not things pounding away on every female you got i mean it's and you're making a whole bunch of these things it's like you know four years you can read these two snakes together and you can't you can't uh uh you know and i didn't want to make a bunch of possible heads or anything like that previously because i don't want to use what the flip is on with a bunch of possible gene carriers on to like prove it out diligently and and get it all nailed down and we tie it before i let anything go but now it's it's actually i can actually sell visual animals and heads for the first time so wow that's also as a i mean can you explain what the gene is i mean i posted pictures up on our facebook page that you sent me of uh of these hatching out um what i mean as far as adults what does the what does the problem is like one of the one of the adults is that would have been probably much easier but it's kind of a last second thought like two minutes before you guys started talking like hey here's some pictures wouldn't you propose that for some time didn't you get busy and you don't think and you get old like me and you don't think about stuff in advance as much so uh yeah that's not maybe if you look like the babies i mean you get this kind of the first third of the body you get this kind of the background color is leached away where it looks like someone scrubbed the color off of them kind of like that's the name and everything it's uh it it tends to diminish towards by the tail and they look pretty well normal uh how far back extends is very well i got something this year when i get a but up until now like this one clutch probably tripled the number of these things that existed on the planet there's only the handful of them ever produced because you have a couple of clutches of head to head basically just there's very very few of them and now i mean i breed homos like it's a headers like it and get good odds also you get like there's actually a few around and with a larger sample size you know you get a see whatever level of natural variation and phenotype exists you'll you have enough of them you'll start to see kind of the full range of what's possible and make sure there's some of these things that have that background color is kind of super faded out you know most of the way back and stuff it's always most prominent in the first and the anterior third of the body and then you know and then the bearing duris help our back it goes it's pretty neat looking they're really neat when they're babies it's uh i don't know it's uh it's strange i don't it kind of reminds me a lot of like you see the reduced pattern diamond python morph which i know no one's totally got that sorted out yet as far as probably inherent to that work and stuff i mean but that's you know for the diamond python guys to figure that one out right i do have a pair but if i do have a pair but i'm gonna be severely disappointed in my comrades if they haven't got it sorted out before i breed mine so they've they've popped these things out for a few years now i mean it grants others bc that takes you know five or five or so years they hit maturity so it's you know it's not the fastest thing in the world to do but it's again you know they should have it they don't have it figured out by the time i get to breed mine and there's something wrong so come on guys that thing is random it's all kind of like there's a reason why these phenotypes exist it's like how that works you know it's it all can be answered it just you got to think about it and i see i have a great frustration with you know harper's around the world and some regards and stuff it's like do you get these anomaly anomalous kind of animals that might be some new mutation or whatever and then they'd like it's usually pretty clear what you need to do you need to you know breed a and a to b and b to c and you do b three things and then by read the deduction you will figure out you remove every possibility other than whatever it is you know and then you know what it is but it's usually pretty easy the you know as far as knowing what you need to breed to really truly sort it out and it's shocking how many people just go about it the most scary way they're just trying to like they have an animal that looks really strange for whatever reason and they're trying to find another animal that looks like that one to breed it to it's like what's that's the path of no knowledge that will tell you nothing i think it's like because if you even if you get babies that look like them you won't know why was it because one was jennick and one wasn't and if it was one which one wasn't or is it because babies just look like their parents and you've read two things look like each other and the babies look like the parents you'll learn nothing but you need to breed to a completely stone cold normal that's unrelated if at all humanly possible you know it's like then to see and then you analyze the babies about first generation did you see the parental phenotype expressed you know in whole or in part i mean if if you know you do anything you get tells you something if you see half the babies look like the dad well great that tells you one thing if the babies look intermediate that tells you something else that the babies look all normal that tells you something and then you go on to the next step and you know couple you know takes you two generations or whatever and then you're there and you you know definitively what you have but just it's kind of poking around breeding random things or they'll have a potential new morph and then the first thing to do is breed to some other mutant what if you what if you only bred you know what if what if you only got one of the new morph in the clutch and it also happened to be the other thing you bred it to and then you totally cloud what you're looking at you know right you know you don't want to it makes it hard to see because you're kind of because these things interact with each other these genes and affect that color and pattern and on some level and you know it it's you know it's like you had a new if you had a new you know if i would never breed a brettel to a jag as previously for all of you mentioned previously discussed but i mean how insane would it be to take oh i've got this new brettel morph that might be something i'll breed to a jag straight away it's like well then it's like what are you doing you know it's like what is that telling you it'll tell you anything i mean it's kind of just really muddying the waters and you want to be able to see you want to see the potential new the influence of that phenotype from the one parent you think might be something on a blank canvas you don't want to see any other interference you don't want to be a hybrid you don't want to have any other genius completely wild type so then if you have something it isn't wild type it's very easy to spot even if it's subtle you know right and stuff but this is i mean it's but i mean yes people can do whatever they want they've got whatever they can do whatever they want but i mean it's but there's a reason why some of these things you know have got languished forever and we don't know why how it works because it's like it's figure it out man it's like yeah you know why do we not know how red coastals work definitively and that's embarrassing at this point to me i mean it's uh i'm pretty i'm extremely confident i know the answer but i don't keep red coastals so i'm not gonna get some i had enough to do you know it's uh but it's like that's like again it's like breed a to b hold back babies and then breed them to you know it's like it's not that mean it's not long of a process it's like you could answer that question it's not unknowable i think people like things that are no one's bought to do this oh it's random or it's you know whatever they they don't want to figure it out it's like this i'd be just about a curiosity want to figure it out you know what's you know what's you could do it about three years you could positively put that to rest yeah you know well that happened with uh the melanistic guy jay thing that i have and the guy that had it before me the first thing he bred it to was a jag and i was oh my goodness what are you doing here's a you're the female too isn't it yes yeah and how tragic what if that you know i've had a lot of females where you might only get one clutch out of a female what if you i've had females you know lay a clutch then drop dead afterwards or uh i have female lay a clutch then laid the eggs and prolapsed her entire obaduct came out with the egg like sausage casing that happens not often but it can happen so what if that female only clutch she ever produced was that and thus yeah you can never make this because they they're always whatever it is is if it was something it they'll all be ijj mutter you know it's like the get something get it figured out get it established and then if you want to do whatever you're gonna do do whatever you're gonna do but it'd be nice to get something established on its own first before that yeah it doesn't make sense to me but people can do whatever they want i mean and then they do and it's whether it's you know good idea or not doesn't seem to matter it's people will do and they can i mean i just i don't know i just see crazy stuff like that all a time and it's just like man so these things are i could make it several more projects around the world that are have a lot of potential but should have been proven out years ago right and we still don't have any flippin answers because you know things are easy to breed too it's like just figure this out it's like the thought of breeding something to a normal is so crazy you know like this you know and i want to see this by itself he's isolated and everything there's another guy you know let's take away the discussion of the stone wash but there's another guy uh who just hatched out actually hatched them out last year and then he hatched more off this year from the same parents that might be another type of hypo-valentism in rattle spiders in rattle right wow there are more they're quite a bit more subtle than the hypo that i've got but it might be something i thought it was the potential there do i bought all of them i mean i got all of them from this year and i just got them the other day and everything is five of them and stuff and it might be something but it's it's possible it's not but they there's enough there to think have some reason to think there's something going on but i mean so what's the next step a bunch of serious controlled test breeding you know it's like the guy's pretty cool we're working together on this stuff and it's like look we can do you know a b and c and you know after in you know 12 more months we'll know quite a bit more and then every year we'll learn a little more and then a couple years we'll have this nailed down because we're going to eliminate the other possibilities and you know and then what's left however unlikely must be the truth then if you've removed the after you've removed all the impossible but if you've removed the impossible whatever remains however unlikely must be the truth right well but it's it's not that complicated you know in this case those animals are all germanic stripes also which makes us a little more complicated because now you got to deal with two things well what does it look like in the absence of the stripe gene so you have to kind of separate the stripe from that so you need to do a breeding where you're bringing the stripe out because what does this look like without being a stripe because that's having an effect so you're going to kind of get the extra get rid of the other morph and right in an experimental clutch to see because you got to know what does this look like by itself and stuff and what is it you know and how does it work it might but it might be so we might be talking about in other couple years about another recess of brettles morph so that's pretty cool yeah everything because at this point there are uh there are as many brettles python morphs as there are coastal carpet morphs uh available to us as hobbyists and far more i mean you get two ij morphs one jungle carpet mutation you know but brettles are now up to three and possibly four you know so wow yeah absolutely things i tend to think are going to play really nice together because i mean the hypo is going to play nice with whatever but of course the stonewashes not really i wouldn't consider it a hypo melonistic gene but it kind of looks like that at some point some of them are pretty red and they kind of were the really faded and it really i hesitate to i don't want to call them a hypo you know but they they kind of have some attributes like that a little bit but it's not really a decreased black kind of a thing but uh i imagined just looking at the phenotypes of both of them i'm really confident that they're going to play really nice together that uh you know a hypo stonewash is going to be a really pigment challenged uh animal this should be really really orange and really bright and that'll be that's a good thing at least you know it'll be a good thing and stuff so you know and then this other thing if this turns out to be another type of albeit maybe a little softer hypo melonistic type of gene it's like well then you've got multiple types of hypo melonism that are at different locuses and they are not related and thus you can stack them on top of each other right make effectively a double hypo which will well is there is there anything in the is there anything in the ball python world that would relate to a double hypo well there always is similar you've got tons of you've got tons of different types of hypo melonism and ball pythons and stuff the best analogy is to follow constructors though some reason boa analogies work really well with uh carpet with carpets unless you're going to talk about jag in which case you've got to go to the spider ball or whatever but uh yeah there's uh like uh ever seen as i think it's got to be called a sunset boa it's a hypo hog island boa but a hog island boa is basically just a mainland boa lives on an island where the entire island population has evolved to be natural super hypo's which for some reason is a weird thing that happens on small insert populations where you see kind of small island populations where everybody is a hypo that's not that happens a lot oddly i don't know why what the evolutionary pressure that drives island you know insular hypo melonism is but you see island forms that where everybody is a hypo and hog island boa is basically a hypo central american boa isn't it it's like but the whole population it stops being a morph when the entire population is conformed when everything in the population is a homozygous for some mutation it's not really a morph at that point it's just basically the new normal isn't it right well then you've got you know central american hype of the common central american hypo and everything when you put that on top of it since there are basically two different types of hypo melonism you they stack on top of each other and you end up with this ridiculously hypo melonistic animal that is just pop the charts beautiful and really greatly reduced you get kind of a synergistic effect where uh you know when you stack these things on top of each other you know they're really really hypo melonistic animal and i would expect you probably end up with something very similar to brettles pythons except for in this case you're gonna have a really orange snake right and stuff so it's gonna take a while i mean these things mature late but it's uh right you know i got nothing else to do i made it for the long ball i'll play the long i'm playing the long ball on this and it's uh you know i'll be in my 50s by time i make it but it'll be all right you know you'll start looking at super hypo but then you're also now super hypo stripes super hypo stonewash because it might get murky i mean the other the other putative hypo gene that may i mean it's not even though is it even genetic it it yeah on a single clutch where there are a few a handful of weird babies that doesn't mean squat i mean i've seen that a million times most of time doesn't mean anything this got interesting because the the next year the same parents did produce the same result there was again a small portion of these weird babies there were noticed but not like ten times brighter but they are like there's a few characteristics that are consistent and it's enough to make you think uh might be something there now if you play the odds most new morphs don't prove to be genetic there's for every new mutation that pops out there's been about a hundred but people tried to prove out they weren't genetic uh the odds are always against you but there's enough going on when that when the second clutch from the second year and then like okay history repeat itself at that point you can rule out any kind of develop you're not having a developmental thing you're not having an incubator thing it's like something's going on and so now it's a matter it's it's clearly hereditary but how is it hereditary it's is what the focus becomes and then you know figure out a game plan and stuff and and proceed so right uh do you have any uh do you have any better understanding of the hypo gene that you're working with uh no that i'll tell you i can tell you the month that i will give you a total of the complete answer i mean it's like oh okay i mean it maybe sounds cocky but these things for me breed like clockwork like i know that literally in the last week of august the first week of september two year three years two years from now i'm going to have the answer to that question because that's when uh three years from now it'll take three years so in two thousand and eighteen uh this week of two thousand and eighteen i'll be able to answer that definitively uh okay you have to know i mean i mean and that's if we're looking at a multi-elocous trade or some sort of dominant trade and i'll i can't handle not knowing so i've got to do the the breeding and everything but i've you have to eliminate the possibility that either of the animals you're breeding is uh homozygous animal and stuff so uh i made hypo hetjinic stripes last year and they are all every baby with the hypo some of them look just as good as the hypo to hypo babies i mean some of them are a little bit less but they're none of them look normal uh but i can be absolutely positive scientifically positive that there is no possible way that any of them are homozygous hypo they can only be heterozygous hypo if it's a single locus if it's a single gene mutation they can only be heterozygous so when i breed those the best ones of those together and i'll pick the very very best ones obviously uh i've got them all still so i can do that but uh you know regardless of how awesome or not awesome they look i'll pick the most extreme ones if it's a single gene i'm trying to prove it by breeding the gene out uh because those hetero those presumed heterozygous hypo that are also hetjinic stripes but we know that's recessive uh in the process of making a hypo genic stripe i should also make 25% of those babies should be normals right they should be completely normal now it might be a situation where you can't tell the super hypo from the heterozygous hypo that is completely possible but you can surely tell a normal from a hypo because they don't that's very obvious so if i had to breed those together if i get a whole bunch of babies that just look like more hypos for every baby looks you know like the parents basically they're all hypos then it's pretty well settled that it's a multi-locus trait because you're just taking the average of old parents no matter how awesome they are that's what you're doing and stuff whereas if it's a single gene that's doing this then you have you know i should produce 25% completely normal offspring and stuff and if you can't if you can't breed it out it's because you're just endlessly taking the average of old parents and stuff and that's so i'll know when i breed those and i'll have a large enough sample size when i do it so i'll have uh i will i will know definitively and i'm not like i'm going to keep it a secret i mean i've told everyone don't need an entire audience my whole game plan as well i just can't possibly mathematically know with certainty any sooner than that that's just that's the only way you can really prove it and that's what i'm i fully tend to do and when i do it it is well it i mean it will be what it will be won't it it's what it already is it's just i've got to figure it out it's you know it's not i think we uh a lot of people unfortunately with mutations and reptiles they tend to like let what they want something to be kind of getting the way of what they're looking at it's like it is what it is but people let their own people have a preferred outcome don't they they want something to be whatever the best case scenario for them is and sometimes i think people i know people stare at stuff too hard and they convey if you stare at something long enough you'll convince yourself you're seeing all kinds of cool stuff you know some little tiny little bit of minutia and you convince yourself it's some new morph you know you've seen that about a half a million times both of the ball python but i've seen it in carpets and stuff as well people like fixate on one little weird you know not only a pattern and think that maybe they got something and you know maybe they do but they probably don't i mean and i know this i can say this because i've done it i mean i've like stared at stuff too long my own self and you start convincing yourself that you're looking for some great new thing and it's probably not that but uh i don't know the hypo it's like well it's either i know it's not recessive i've proven that breeding system i've proven it's not recessive i didn't think it was going to be but i know it isn't that's that's definitive so uh beyond that you're left with either a dominant trait where that the lower you between home is like a setter is like a sore multi-locust trait worst i guess best cases i mean most people would prefer a nice tidy single gene mutation to a multi-locust trait but that's what matter what we want it to be does it it is what it is um but really is that even that bad of a thing because i mean a tiger is the perfect analogy a tiger is a multi-locust trait they don't seem to be particularly hard to make or in short supply do they no it's like pretty easy to make them it's it's not the same but if you get a really nice line bred tiger you can be a tiger to normal and get a whole clutch of stripes getcha yeah you get very potent and if the hypo is a multi-locust trait it's really damn potent because i got all hypos uh i've only ever bred the hypo to non-hypo one time and i never let any i still have every single one of them and stuff so i've never i did not want to i think like doing making you know kind of because that thing of breed a piece of rope if i put it in this cage i just thought like if i don't want to cheapen the project and run in the toilet i've seen too many projects get run in the toilet we all have uh where people like the one guy's got you know they you know they breed and make an absolute million of them and then pretend that they're rare and then which is always the shell game isn't it make a million or something make 200 of them and then pretend that they're rare at a high price but eventually that house of cards collapses and then you know the price implodes and i just am not going to do that i i've been burned on that kind of thing a few times and stuff so i'm just you know like i said the only you know i have made i'm about to hatch my fourth clutch of them uh but it's uh or my third clutch of them sorry and i have my fourth my third clutch of hypos and every hypo ever sold is from my hypo pair now one time i bred hypo to a non-hypo is to that striped female lasher and i have every single one i didn't release any because i don't know which ones if it's a multi-locus trait then the ones that look the best will make the best babies won't they and i don't know that i don't want to let anything go i mean i want to see how they all go because sometimes the ones you don't think much of at the beginning are the ones that turn out the best so uh but yeah i didn't want to also didn't want to uh just kind of flood the zone with a bunch of half blood hypos because i could breed that hypo i mean i have a lot of rental females different bloodline a lot of stuff but i could yeah i could have probably punched out two three clutches a year of like 50 percent hypo influence maybe based on the stripe clutch i did some of them look pretty they're pretty hypo but i didn't want to say that uh but what are they watered down hypos i don't really i have even quantified exactly what's going on exactly yet so i just did not want to i don't know if you buy a project and somebody's making hundreds of babies and you're by the time with something four years of that goes by then everybody who bought the early animals is like you're going to saturate at the market completely and thoroughly before they ever get any chance we're going to clutch on the ground and that's not cool so i'm just not done that right i tried i did try to make clutch of hypo head to the next stripes to sell this year and it was the one one of the females that reabsorbed so i actually was going to let you know if it wasn't very large but i was going to let you know a small number you know of them out but it's uh just didn't end up happening so right yeah there's uh damn there's no secret army of those things you can't have everything you're right i know right you cross the morphs into the different lines of rattle or are you trying to keep certain lines of rattle pure well i i i keep them all separate and maintain their kind of individual genetic integrity because if you there's a lot of examples of i mean there's nothing wrong with breeding a affluence to a lazzock i i have bred uh those two european lines i've not mixed with anything else but i i have bred you know i'm not opposed to the idea not wrong with that at all it's just in my own collection i like to be able to offer unrelated pairs of people and if you've you know i've seen bloodlines just get disappear entirely i mean we've had multiple bloodlines of everything in this country at one point and a lot of times we don't now because people bred different lines together didn't even know that they were under actually truly unrelated lines necessarily they all got bred together and put in the big giant genetic meat grinder and now you can't pick them apart i mean we should have multiple unrelated bloodlines of olive pine on everything you know for that matter and we don't we don't really do we i mean because i will did it and didn't keep track of anything and then i don't know i mean i'm not i'm not opposed to the idea i'd be a little leery of breeding like a really nice a ford's line brettles to a hypo because those things are can be so bright anyway and have a fairly reduced black that you i think you did it with babies that look like full blood hypo pretty quickly and that's not a bad thing is a pure brettle it'd be beautiful there's nothing wrong with that but i'm like i don't know i want to i'm a little leery of the how to market the hypo's that aren't a hundred percent hypo blood because if it turns out the multi locus trait and the further down more removed you get from that you're kind of watering things down and stuff so it would be even if it looks as nice it might not be quite as potent when you go to breed it my fear with that is that if it turns out that that's how it's inherited but people will you know breed their hypo male to a normal female and then hey all these babies become hypo brettles as if they're the same as the full blood hypo's and then people will take that generation of babies and they'll breed those to normal animals and like pretty soon you have hypo brettles they're really only 25 percent hypo blood aren't they i mean you can kind of see that happening so i kind of want to hopefully people get on board with kind of a consistent naming convention as far as that goes so i kind of like how uh carrying Todd have done with the tigers we just make a percentage you know because you've beaten based on how many generations of tigers you've bred the tiger to type stripe to stripe basically stripes and tigers all the same shit as far as you know you can call it a tiger if you want i suppose they're only making a difference that the multi-locus stripe goes the garbage so it's all at a genetic level they're all the same but but when you know when you're breeding animals that are when you get a tiger from them mostly that's you know its parents were both stripes and they came from two striped snakes and they came from two stripes and the great grandparents were two striped snakes so each time you do that you're just really reinforcing that it might be a multi-locus trait but it gets increasingly more potent and you get better results the phenotype is more extreme and when you breathe that to something when you go to breathe that to something that isn't a tiger you get a more it really you know it kicks more ass i mean it's it's potent and stuff it's uh it really works and stuff so that you know whereas if you go the other way and you keep you breathe that tiger to uh you know something it's banded but hey there's a striped baby in the clutch and then you breathe that to something it's banded and hey even if you get a kind of a striped baby in a clutch it's like it's not going to be you're going to get diminishing returns as you're kind of uh you know there's some of those alleles of the code for striping and dropping out the hypo will be the same way so it can be more or less potent and i just don't want to i just want to see a bunch of very weak looking 25 percent hypo blood things being sold as hypo's and you know at least you know if you make it a percentage kind of thing then it's like hey here's what it is and you know great you know that seems like the best way to go but yeah i don't know it's not really up to me i can kind of start the ball rolling and all that and uh but oddly i won't be making any half hypo's like all mine will just be full hypo so it's like it'll be to other people i hope i've you know talked to everybody i've told to do but this is probably uh and everybody seems to be on the same page but we'll see how it goes it's tough i mean but uh that's another thing with these kind of traits that can be a bit uh if that's in fact even what we're talking about uh inherent in life we all know you'll know as soon as i know i will not it's not going to be a secret i'll be just relieved i i mean it's like it's going to be i don't care i i guess i care but it's not it's not i don't care that much i guess as you could say it's like right they're beautiful demand seems to be uninsatiable so uh and i tell everybody you have to assume that it's a multi-locus trait because that's the worst case scenario and if you don't know for sure you need to assume the worst not the best right right it doesn't seem to make a difference anybody so oh it's all you're all a second of a bright hypo you read and they kind of get blinders on to whatever you're saying because all they do is like pretty snake so yeah everybody i've met something when anybody that was disappointed they all seem to be real happy with it it's like oh they really look like that that's awesome yeah so someone's gone over really well it's like i'm kind of like curious what the the reception for the new morph will be it's not every day you get an entirely new carpet python morph to actually become available is it that's uh an entirely new gene it's not like anything else it's totally different everything else receptive one no less than it's actually going to be available i mean i don't know how carpet people know that these things exist but they've never been available i think the number of stonewashed visual battles that have ever changed hands is four right four uh and that's it ever you know it's like they just don't and that's it i mean so it's uh it's not this will be the first year that actually you could actually just if you wanted one you might be able to buy one for the stuff if it interests you right my credit cards i mean that's kind of cool i mean we don't get we don't get new carpet morphs very often no not that often we're not the ball python sort of corn snake so that's like one every if you need the math it's like one every seven years or something so we can get it so come on so if you don't get excited about this one then you'll be waiting a while for the next one for a life to physically it's true i mean look at it whatever we in all these years and what have we got and people have been breeding carpets since you know we'll say at least the the very early 80s at least and they're right a little bit like that in the 70s but me or by the early 80s they're being bred with some regularity anyway and what have you got to i mean how many mores do you have in 35 years you've got you know not very many if you do but all that many is it 35 you're just have to be like a morph every seven years or something so this is the this is the one that's like uh okay here it is we'll see you in you know 2022 2022 rather in 2022 if you don't like this one okay there's always things that are you know kind of in development but i mean i've got a couple other potential morph carpets morph projects in the various stages of being proven out now but will they prove out you know odds are always against you so you got to keep trying taking time to prove them out so even then you might be on pace for the years 70 years new morph yeah i'd be shocked if you proved one out and another you're another one you know like i would know right away or something would do to be crazy yeah it's like if it started happening like back to back to back i'd be a little freaked out so well the fun i mean even the stonewash this is not like a new i mean it's like it is it takes a long time to prove some that and bring it to fruition to point where there okay there are proven genetic babies that are now available it is taken i've had these things it seems like forever i mean the original head adults but i've got are 10 years old they're a decade old it took a decade from the time those times the time like give you the most definitive answer and have something to sell a decade and it won't be any different the next time around either it's like those other new potential hypoe things if that if that turns out for something it's you know it will be it's you know like a long gestation period so it's like time you go through all the motions it's about 10 years or something like that so yeah i mean this year i i really uh i mean i got my ass kicked on a lot of things but i did great with like a fantastic coastal carpets you know well it's always every season you have your share of triumph and tragedy don't you it's like yeah you wanted everything to work out great and usually you crush it on a few things and you get kicked in the nuts on some other things it's kind of this the way it goes you never hit it out of the park on everything rarely did that happen so usually you know your shared disappointments and but i i did great with example coastal but okay that example because that's been that's not a new gene that just popped out like this year it's been around a long time but it just took it took this long until there was actually a number of them actually any significant number actually produced in the united states to actually felt anybody other than that it's been like one of these two these that go to insider guides like eric and stuff and that's it you know it's like you know you got one last year but i mean i did yeah i think i was the first one of the country even produced the visual and it was like last year with the first time or you know two years ago was the first time and it was you know like three snakes you know and i kept all of them and then last year actually a couple you could just they take the wild uh you know uh to get something to that to that point where there's something to actually sell and stuff because usually something like that you're making your own you got to keep the first visuals yourself and then it's like and that was with the stonewashed i mean i made i kept the first couple pairs and stuff and now you know there and then had to wait four years for them to mature so now they're ready i got a couple female visuals are ready so i can finally make the hypo stonewashed uh cross the first generation of that uh yeah but they just need to have to oh here's another 20 thanks i need to hold back great yeah where are you going to go i need to have a breadle building or something it's insane yeah psyched big you need a psyched big exactly yes i need to leave the island up the coast of Costa Rica uh yeah there we go Richard at pro like the uh i love the nerdy Jurassic Park reference so that's fantastic i love it i'm a geek too i'm literally dinner and my monitor my computer is like a bunch of spoilers for the new star wars movie it's like yeah i'm a geek too for everybody is we all are i think i think my kids uh to the store today they go look at all the new star wars toys that came out because they're big end of star wars stuff and they're like i really think it was probably more than i was excited i just wanted to like i'll just you guys want to see those new lightsaber toys right i mean it's like i think it's like being totally full disclosure i might have been more for my own enjoyment yeah i'm fine that's my nephew yeah no i'm not to be here for me and play with him oh man it's great to be a geek i don't care nerd on a lot of levels so that's fine yeah yeah so i don't know i'm pretty happy uh we're going to do a check out stonewash breadles if you're curious i i welcome the feedback i don't really i'm kind of i don't know sometimes you get a little too cool you're inside the bubble too much you know a little too close to some of these things they don't really know what other people think in general it's like i'm pretty stoked but i really love bubbles by tons life and working on this for years now to get it to this point kind of quietly hammering away at this everything so i'm kind of like convinced my own self but i mean it's like i don't know what uh to the average you know carpet enthusiast who's seeing this for the first time i really don't know what they think about is it not cool or is it crappy i don't know everybody's got opinion that i'd actually be curious to see what people are uh think of that so you may want to go ahead and send me a facebook message or something and give me their opinion i don't know good better otherwise that might have been a mistake to ask for that because i don't really have no idea but it's you know i don't know i mean they suck i mean like i doubt somebody's gonna really just throw that out there i mean i don't know i mean it's it's a different but you know some people might see mutations of things that i don't think are an improvement over a wild type i mean just because something different doesn't mean it's better or certain else it's just different it's different and we tend to fixate on the things that are different uh you know because we want to see the difference yeah because it's different but i mean i don't know i mean a lot of people i don't follow these things you know this project back closely because i don't you know i don't i tend to not post a lot of pictures of things there isn't anything to talk about i mean it's kind of like well just hatch a bunch of these and wait for four years you know it's kind of a good thing it's kind of an whole lot of just sitting and waiting and feeding things to get to this point and then okay here we go now i got a whole big pile of these things all at one time and uh i'm pretty respectable pile of them and man so it is kind of like uh i suppose if you're gonna invest in a project it's probably not the worst idea it's like okay it's a recessive gene in a species it takes four even the males take four years before they'll breed that's going to slow that role way down it is no like 18-month-old male breed a bunch of giant females you already had doesn't do anything they had and the male won't breed anyway it's like you're there is no shortcut to waiting four years and the problem with a lot of morphs and the volatility of any morph-based kind of market you know vis-a-vis you know pricing and everything is just that it proliferates so fast i mean a zebra it's like that's like neat snake i got a bunch of them but it's like yeah if you have a male that 18 months can breed three adult giant adult females and you can literally make your one zebra could turn into 35 zebra's in a bunch of normals like in a year and a half and then a year and after that those 35 zebra's can make you know five thousand it's like you can see the exponential growth in the number of these things and how fast i can go whereas if you have something like okay you have to have a pair of these things it's even make a visual at least head and you're waiting four years and you can't just breed it to something else because like you have a bunch of adults laying around anyway it's like there's it's going to slowly it will be it's going to be one of the things where they're available but it's going to take a good while before they're common and so regardless of whatever the the level of economic interest in the project there is it will be slow it won't be volatile it should be the definition of kind of a steady uh as far as you know morphs go anyway it should be pretty uh pretty steady because it just isn't any uh you know any way to cheat that system on the and if there was a way to get it brittle to breed young and small i would have already figured it out because i have tried and tried and tried and i know good and well they're not going to do it but don't think i didn't put those visual stone wash males who were big enough to breed and had sperm plugged everything when they're two years old don't think i didn't throw them with them and a hypo male don't think i didn't put them with somebody i i mean i you know i had a female that that striped girl i knew you're going to breed this female and she's had years off waiting for him so i put him in there and he just did nothing of course until he became four years old then he just the light bulb turns on and they do it it's uh so it's like nothing i didn't give him the chance i mean because i with recessive things uh and with the hypo no that's not recessive i mean i wanted to i don't want a sperm storage to potentially cloud issues so the females i used have had the year off before previously and so i don't have that problem really and um to worry about so it's like well they had a year off so it's like well i don't want to breed you in two years of this snake so if i check you in here now and you don't do anything no harm no foul is it you know it's like you're just going to see him next year anyway but you kind of like will you do it i keep waiting it's like it's kind of happened eventually like you can't be because they're biologically capable they're big enough they've produced this sperm they just don't seem to want to do anything until they're that extra year and it's it's frustrating but i mean but it doesn't seem to at this point i find myself even getting in trouble with they're not even barely big enough at four years old like well ain't no sense really powering you through powering them up to size is there you know it's like i just kind of feed them on this kind of slow trajectory to be big enough in four years which is pretty easy to do but i've had a few where i'm like oh crap i need to pick up the pace i might not make it by four years this way because there's there's no rush i mean it's you have a long time to get there but so you take your eye off the ball a little bit yeah stuff but uh man so new carpet bite on morph available sweet for the first time ever and it looks nice and um i think it will i mean you put the picture out i'd love to get some i don't know public opinion i mean i have thick skin so if you think it's ugly or whatever you say that's fine i need to be flattered if you don't like it you don't like it i mean it's like it's not every morph is for everybody there are things i like and don't like i mean everybody's like this there's no right or wrong answer but i genuinely you kind of get inside the bubble a little bit too much you know what i mean it's like i'm in the kind of the i don't know with the this kind of stuff and you know i've been i don't know so that you can't see the forest for the trees and sort of step back and hear what other people think of something and so to me i've just convinced myself it's awesome but it's i don't know i kind of like how they uh the head is kind of you know looks like your typical bridles and then as soon as you hit the neck it just kind of changes um it's literally like they just like it's like a weird morph like they just glued it head off a different snake on because like right at the back of the neck right at the beginning of the neck of the back of the head it's just like it completely changes like abruptly like a line it's like the head is completely normal and the neck immediately goes to depigmented uh it's weird and they're all hundred percent of them are like that it's just no way variation is how far back the depigmentation goes and i've got some of these where you've got like that blushing goes pretty much the whole snake i don't know what they will look like as adults because i hadn't hatchet it were that extreme before but now that i've you know i hatch enough of them you see uh you know uh the like greater degree of variation with a larger sample size so yeah right good stuff pretty wild i i can't wait to see when they shed a few more times and start getting yeah they shed the first time i mean i've just i mean i basically like just took a couple pictures in their uh new reaction and that's it and haven't really messed with them since i tried to take a better picture uh with like three of them kind of in a you know all kind of pile it up together and they were just not having any part of it just the total like trailer damn you re-going worm you can't get it's hard to get one baby carpet kind of corralled and sit this is still for a picture but trying to get three you never there's always a head out of focus i just gave up you know so uh bill shed soon they're they're pretty big and robust so i should have a bunch of them shed here pretty quick and um take a post shed fix and everything for him yeah that will be cool i'm posting them over uh with the link to the show over on the uh pick of the week now so uh people oh yeah yeah let's just the go to place carpet oh sorry guys you're literally doing it right now yeah i was doing it right now so i was talking about that we usually do it quickly here yeah that's uh usually when something like that happens that's kind of lingo for the co-host to kind of take over you know yeah yeah yeah you're uh so you're good at multitasking i'm more of a mono-tasker myself i can't do i can do one thing at a time really awesome but if you ask me to do a second thing i usually also i can't seem to yeah that it'd be the problem i can't call looking at pictures of them so it's like egos to start post things and i'm already looking at them so it doesn't work but i get distracted by them anyway um making you like obviously the plans are to take the film wash and push them out into the other rattle morphs um i guess yeah i did the math on what it'll take me i did the math and unfortunately came up to make a visual hypo stone wash and edicts drive should take about 12 years damn it all right we're talking about double recessive plus whatever the hypo is going to factor into that it's like crap that's going to take a while presuming that i hit everything on the first try uh yeah oh man it could be longer because you cannot make you cannot begin to make a triple visual until you have at least made one double visual uh so when i make like a hypo genetics drive i can then breed that you know in three years i can make a hypo genetics drive which then i can breed what i probably just wait one more year because one more year after that i'll have made a stone wash and edicts drive because i made the double heads this year and then i can breed a hypo strive to a stone wash stripe and you make a whole clutch where everybody's a stripe that's a hundred percent head for stone washed and may or may not be hypo and then you've got but then you've got three the three morphs in one snake but you're not getting the full expression of them you've got you know some headers like ossity going on and stuff and then you've got to wait one more generation beyond that to be those animals together to make the triple visual and stuff and that and then if i just other thing pans out to be a new type of hypo then i've just got a i don't know if i'm going to go over it and just breed rebels fight on the apparently because it's uh yeah i'll be like on social security by the time i make the the 14 you know triple recess triple recessive and then uh you know a dominant or whatever you know that's just like are you kidding me that's i mean i'll i'll work it don't get me wrong i'm i'm on it i'm definitely going for it but it's like it's you gotta be it's not like a you know going to make a zebra jag or something where you can make the visual the double visual in 18 months after you get one snake you've made the double it's like it's you know it's uh or where the ingredients snakes can you know mature i mean even a you know an albino mod or otherwise you know even a female or you're two and a half years that's a damn sight faster than you know three and a half and then you're at heaven and you don't get you know the you don't even get the fast turnaround on males you got to wait forever on them so yeah but while it takes longer you do it up with greater market stability for sure so uh and that's you know probably better in the longer really i mean riding me i mean you guys are kind of power players i suppose it's safe to say now the carbified our community you've got a fairly good collection yourself there oh no no no certainly not a newbie that's for sure you've got some pretty good stuff there they're kind of over there so it's you know and as you know you guys have you know kind of definitely dipped your toe in the kind of deep into the pool as far as uh you know the high-end stuff i mean it that volatility is frustrating and stressful in times i mean it's kind of like yeah because it gets to be a lot riding on things it's like well you know you know i wish that wouldn't happen you know or so it's you know it's things that are kind of a it might be a slow burn but it's you know it's uh you know it's a lot longer ride too it's not going to be uh some new you know it's not going to be some crazy volatile thing or stonewash brettles are going to drop by 90% from this year to next year it's like no because there's going to be you know this tiny handful and then there'll be another handful next year and then this will take a long time before they're really commonly available and stuff i mean yeah when you've got multiple people breeding visuals the visuals and making you know 20 30 of them at a pop at that point things will start to go somewhere but initially it's like the next you know the next several years is not going to be the case i mean i've got two visual females i will breed one pair of visuals together and make a whole clutch of them that will be that the other one is going to bread to a hypo and that's one of the beetle visuals i mean so the vision is like and with the first time i will probably produce maybe the same number of visuals next to your best-case scenario about the same as i did this year next year even though i'll have a head female and two visual females it just it won't work out to be i it would just won't be a million of these things around because it's just not possible for it to be but that's that's fine i mean it's uh i keep some anticipation going i guess if it's if they're all sitting on you know on everybody's table at every show then it kind of some people is interested in that it becomes too common so but we're across the milestone and that they will actually be around and they will actually uh they will actually exist other than like previously i think there have been four ever sold it was all kind of very quietly not publicly even sold it's kind of four individual animals and that's and that's it so i note these things that keep track of all of them well i mean if you're gonna that's a good advice for anybody if you can invest any sizable amount of money in a project you do your market research man it's like you wouldn't invest in a you would infer you exactly you wouldn't invest in a stock just randomly would you know you'd want to do you know any advisor advisor to do your market research you know kind of see what you know kind of see the lay of the land and and then you know snake morphs i guess that would be how many damn things are there because there's only five of them that's one thing if there's fifty that's a whole different thing because the potential for reproduction and how many of them how fast they proliferate and more end up on the market that's how fast the price is going to come down you can kind of figure it out i mean it's very you know and and more than that and not initially more than that but it adjacent to that is like who has them because certain people are more likely to kind of piss in the punch bowl no the people and you can figure that out you kind of like i don't want to flush my money in a toilet i mean it's it's true though it's you know there are people out there who have a a bit of a problem habitually doing that there are always those people that will seek short-term gain and you always see the even you see it all the time everybody's ever looked at a reptile classified whether it's on facebook or wherever you always see the same just throw away bullshit lines though it's just like temporary price reduction i'm only selling this to fund another project you know all this it's all crap it's all crap it's like you know i'm only i'm only selling this for a limited time only to fund this other projects like you're now just you know and it's always the the preemptive excuse for why you're going to sell something for because like well most people you got two choices it's you got to sell something it's like do i want to work hard to sell this or i just want to cut the price and just do nothing and there are always people who do that so it's like knowing who's in the boat with you when you invest in something it makes a difference and how many of them there are and what the potential reproductive rate of those things are based on how you know that's all anybody be foolish to invest you know everyone a you might love the more for love the snake or be very enthusiastic but it would be foolish to invest a lot unless you just have the money to burn to just blindly throw money at something because you want it i mean you should do the the homework i mean look at all people bought banana ball pythons i mean no two years ago and you see that just completely imploded and imploded to such an extent it took the entire ball python market down with it because they all law it's all consumer confidence isn't it they let people bought that floundered so spectacularly that people lost confidence in ball pythons as an investment in general and now everything's cheap i've got three of them i know i mean it's like i didn't you know pay a bunch of money for them and everything i saw the writing on the wall a long time ago but it's still it's like kind of that stuff can happen it's just it's just an example of like you know do your homework before and think really objectively don't just convince yourself of the you know the a lot of people if they want something to be true they will convince themselves this will be a you know i'll buy this expensive snake and then it'll breed the very first available chance to a million females and i'll make a hundred thousand babies and people will line up at my door to wake me up in the morning to give me fistfuls of money for these things and it's like that doesn't really ever happen does it it's like it never happened yeah things can go wrong snakes drop dead on rare occasion it's rare but i mean it can happen they can certainly be poor breeders i've had that happen with very expensive animals just they don't all breed really well sometimes you get a dub it just doesn't you know is not a particularly good breeder and that can happen i mean you know things can go wrong and you should be of savvy investor in all things in life and that certainly includes i'm the one saying all this i'm like talk to you a lot of buying these and snakes but it's well i mean this is a probably a pretty good case for doing your homework i mean it's you know you should do your homework everything you should never just blindly throw money at something that's crazy especially if it's you know if you're buying something that you're happy just to have it to look at it well that's fine but if you're buying it because advanced faces anybody buys it i don't know what i'm going to charge these stonewash brettles yet i'm still trying to sort that out but i mean they're not going to be dirt cheap snakes they're going to be kind of expensive i suspect and anybody that you know you're going to spend any significant of the money that they're going to cost you're probably a those people invariably want to reproduce them and make that money back i've you know rarely i've not sold a hypo brettles yet to anybody as a pet yeah yeah eventually you know given the long view it will take a long time for them to be you know eventually everything's a couple hundred bucks it'll be a very long time before that happens with those but eventually they will get to a point where someone will buy one just to have it to look at it and that's that's fine but it's like you shouldn't yeah i don't uh i don't know cover all the bases dollar your eyes crush your teeth and really kind of think of you know objectively what's the worst case scenario and really you know think about that and we all see people we saw a lot of people with the jags and to a lesser extent with the zebras but where people bought something that was very expensive and then like you know and then they're endlessly complaining oh price came down and you know you know it's like well of course it did you know it's like it was entirely foreseeable too wasn't it it was like it's gonna go yeah if you didn't if you didn't see it coming is because you put the blinders on on purpose and just didn't want to look because it's like clear that this is what's going to happen you know with those two being you know incomplete dominance and males that'll routinely breed it 18 months that's going to be a fast ride isn't it uh you know albino's are much slower because it's recessive but even still i mean if you breed them to absolutely everything you have and the females will mature you know two years two and a half years the males here in half they proliferate fairly fast this is a little different with the trillion stuff because it's you know both sexes take in four years a whole lot different but it's but it's you know do your homework i do i always i'm always based everything on like the worst case projection like if if this falls i present this is you know i've been doing this for years but this is something that goes back to conversation i was Paul and i get friend Paul Harris years and years and many years ago and he said you know like i go like if i buy something i presume that he just assumes that and i do the same thing that the price is going to decline 75 percent between the time you buy the animal and the time you produce whatever it is whether it's a more first beachies or whatever and if you can live with that go ahead and do it that's pretty pessimistic right it rarely actually happens that it's something to climb 75 percent but you know what even if it does as long as you make four of them you're fine aren't you it's like if you have real i think a lot of people get in trouble because they have unrealistic expectations i pay ten thousand dollars for this snake therefore i'll fill all the babies for ten thousand dollars and so why it's not going to happen but they're not you're not trying to make all your money back on one egg typically either so it's you got to kind of a realistic kind of expectation so i expect 75 percent price decline and and it rarely is that but even if it is it's always fine and stuff so yeah i think i think as far as like uh the whole market of things and all that kind of stuff i think the thing that the carpet python group misses is trying to expand the group uh you know we like post pics to each other all the time but we don't like post pics to people that don't know about carpets you know i mean i guess i can't really i can't really preach it to you net because you wrote a book um yeah we do a podcast every week it's not that easy you know but i'm just saying like you got to like get other people into it if you want to kind of grow the market i mean people kind of whining complaining about they can't sell their snakes they can't tell this they take a shitty pic they did you know they don't do it i can't feel better themselves you know what i mean it's like i i find most people to complain the most about not be able to sell things with people who put the least effort into it it's like if you're you're playing about if the sum total of your effort is taking a crappy cell phone pick of a snake with a stuck shed the piece of turd in the background a picture for god's sake and you wonder why it can't tell i mean it doesn't tell them what and you put it on your facebook page and that's the sum total of what you're doing well then you get into life whatever you get out of life whatever you put into it if you don't put in you put in maximal effort you'll get a much better resort if you put in minimal effort you generally don't get the greatest results so you have to i sell a lot of snakes but i spend a lot of time selling snakes i put a lot of effort into that i mean it's you get out of anything what you put into it i mean it's like it's reward is directly proportional i mean to risk you you've gained if you don't risk anything you don't gain anything if you don't work hard you don't achieve anything you don't there's no free ride in anything is there now we're just gonna show up and hand you some awesome project and oh here you go and uh and then people just line up to buy it from you uh when they just breathe by themselves you've got to do some stuff if you want something you need to go out and make it happen it's kind of like mantra for life i just get so tired people like this they kind of add to it like they just i don't know if it's you know an entitlement sort of attitude it's like man if you want something good to happen for yourself then go out and grab it go do it chase it down rest of that thing to the ground whatever it is and make it happen right or quit complaining about it it's true it is so true it's like just go freaking do it you know i'm like just make up your mind what's important and then make it happen and if you and follow through with your plan it's like but making people don't it's so much easier to make excuses for failure than it is to work hard to succeed that's enough and it's like you know oh this is not selling that's all then try something else do something else you get a photo take a better freaking picture you know i'm not hammering the dog or bird by any means but it's like yeah you know it's like i take adequate pictures you know yeah yeah looking for a Pulitzer prize right here i mean no don't take your pictures with your cell phone yeah make sure the cage is clean i don't know be it may call me crazy but use a real camera and with actual lights don't use a crappy cell phone picture in a dirty tub that's not with a stuck shed and then you see that all the time don't you yeah it's insane it's like if you're get subconsciously what are you saying to people i don't know how to turn into snake sales 101 class but it's kind of like you're telling people you're going to get here all right what are you telling when you take that crappy picture something i am so lazy i'm not even going to bother to take a proper picture because one people think you know it's like huh then that guy's probably too lazy to clean that cage either it's like if if you're willing to if if you're not going to put your best foot forward and put in the minimal effort to actually you know present your animal in the best possible light then you're probably not too up on your maintenance are you you know you're probably not cleaning that glass before that cage very often either you know it's uh if you're using it that often yeah do the minimum i mean it's like sometimes you need to not just do the minimum to get by and you do the do the best you're going to do something it's kind of a yoda mentality do or do not don't cry just do it do it you know that's it i mean it's always back to being a geek so yeah there you go but a full circle that's right but it's true though man i mean it's like how many times in your life you like if you decide i'm going to do this i'm going to make this happen if you really give yourself it pretty much happens doesn't it you get it done it's like well this podcast is a perfect example of that you know i mean it's just like oh yeah that would be a good idea you know listen to the reptile radio guys and i'm like man somebody should do one about carpets like well i don't really know that much about carpets at this point but nobody else is doing it i'm going to do it what the hell you know yeah then i think people i showed up and made it worse so yeah you know i don't know if you're like the epic man that has jimmy curtains but uh yeah exactly he doesn't look like you're officially an director yeah hold on my life complete it's so yeah exactly so that was good eric good job next you know i mean that's a good example of the of the philosophy though is it not i mean it's kind of like you're going to wait around for somebody else to do something or you're just going to do it i mean a lot of people i think they just wait around oh that'd be a good idea if someone do that well then if you got a good idea that you think it needs to be done then do it you know don't wait around i think people wait around to be ordained by god to do something or it's like just freaking do it if you think it doesn't need it doesn't make it happen yeah i mean just and follow through instead of like this if i had a nickel every time i heard somebody's like daydreams of what might be a good idea that they did they just lacked they might have a good idea and lack any follow through on it and just follow through and do it that's the difference between success and failure it's like well for one it's like not being afraid to try i mean most people defeat themselves before they even try don't they like oh i could never do this i could never do that it's like well yeah if you don't think you can do it you you can't do it can you i mean you have to believe you can do something if you're gonna actually do it yeah if you can't convince yourself you're certainly not going to convince anybody else i mean it's you've got to believe in what you're doing and just make it happen man it's like i just can't imagine going through life and not ever everybody has that dream whatever it is it's different for everybody probably or that series of dreams and to go through your whole life and never really try to reach for it you know i mean just never even try to defeat yourself before you even try i you know whether that's hosting a podcast or breathing snakes or whatever it is like just you know you can't be afraid of failure you're never going to try anything it's got to kind of go for it man yeah it's uh i always relate other stories as uh with music with me it's the same thing like when i was coming up Eddie Van Halen was the shit for me on guitar like to me there was nobody better i was just don't think everybody knows how old we are you know that right yeah i know that's okay i'm exactly the same age as you i'm totally with you man believe me you don't know any Van Halen is a guitarist yeah like who the hell is he talking about yeah anyway but anyway yeah exactly my uh my thing was is that i was going to play with that guy one day i was going to jam with that guy i had it in my mind that somehow somehow somewhere i was going to jam with that guy and i was going to meet him and hang out and i did you know what i mean because they had this contest it is a perfect example they had this contest that you had to go and play eruption and you know they had these people standing there and they were about to give it to this kid that couldn't even play guitar he couldn't even play guitar and nobody else wanted to do it because they'd say no i'm not going to get it there's probably people better you know and here i wake up real early in the morning go to this place and i just start playing and they're like okay well clear this guy's going to get it and i'm like oh shit i can't believe it i'm going to meet Eddie Van hell and hang out with him and play guitar with him this is crazy you know so you're absolutely right you just have to say check that off your bucket list play jam with Eddie Van Halen who never said that that's awesome i mean it's like it doesn't matter what the dream is this is the matter that you try and you just work away at it and you try and if you don't i mean to try it and fail this is one thing you've never tried it's sad you know it's like just a never i've never attempted it and everything i can't imagine i can get hit by a bus tomorrow it's like i have at least done and tried some stuff i mean oh there's just been afraid to try i don't even i don't even understand why you only go through life like that so now you've uh like you said you thought there should be a reptile podcast about carpets and you made one you're actually made by those consistently broadcast reptile podcast ever in that it is like it's a lot of work especially a weekly jeez i mean you guys are always there brain or shine sleep or snow if you're late you're made with a makeup you guys are always on yeah it takes a level of i know what it takes it's it's a lot of work i don't have time to do it every week and all that i mean it's i wish it did but it's it is a lot of work and that's to be commended and it's like whether you you just you get it done you put in the time you put in the work and you make it happen you don't make excuses right get the damn job done and stuff and everybody just i don't know just grab it by the balls and get it done i mean it's like it's sometimes you gotta just put on your big boy pants power through and get it done i'm quite sure there have been weeks where you're like i cannot believe i have to do this now i do not have time to deal with it but you're trying times a week but you've got it done anyway yeah so it's and i think you're i'm sure your listenership appreciates that every Tuesday come hail or high water you're gonna be there yeah well that matters i was i was saying about how earlier in the week at our on our monday show it was talking about how i listen to podcasts all the time and i get super bummed out when their podcast isn't there and it's supposed to be and i get super excited when i'm not expecting one to be and then you know because i have a long drive to work back and forth and that makes the time uh go by pretty pretty uh painlessly you know and uh you know it's like today when i was driving home i was like oh her nation has a pocket oh it's next sweet you know i was driving home like okay of course yeah of course genetic genetic you were talking i think my head explored that got a little complicated i mean that was like that's a but it was the idea it's kind of like okay i mean the basic fundamentals of it i mean a lot of herpers have some grasp on that but it's like well you got to get out of your comfort zone if you're gonna talk about the same stuff you already understand what is the point of listening to that it's like all right push this to the next level of you know you should challenge your own limitations and your own knowledge and like okay it's time to go another step beyond that even if it's intimidating or even if it's perhaps uh you know difficult to get your brain around and it's for me sometimes some of that stuff is too it's not like i'm not a geneticist i mean i'm a nerd and i'm very interested in that stuff i have a i suppose better than average grasp of it but i'm not a geneticist i don't there's no initials after my name or anything so it's uh you know but we're talking about transpose on mutations and this kind of it it's pretty i'm sure if you're a you know if you're a geneticist that's not terribly complicated but for the average trooper it's like this i wanted to get to a level of discussion that is beyond the basic discussion of you know uh you know mandelian inheritance and you know multileal complexes and this kind of stuff and go okay what's more complicated than that and that show grew out of i i actually hatched a i never posted a picture of i think i told i told you where i hatched a granite from a non-hit oh yeah that i bred a visual granite male to a wild caught female and produced one visual granite baby phenotypically granite it is not genetically granite because it's not possible for it to be because the female mother is not is a wild caught and is not a hit for granite i bred them last year and i had 10 or 11 eggs and no granites no surprise and i bred them this year again and i got 13 babies with one being kind of a slightly runtish small granite oh it's good and everything so it's like how is that possible right so that might be a good time to i have to have a geneticist on speed dial be good time to good subject i already knew how it's possible actually i got a premonition i was gonna hatch one in that clutch i'm thinking like stuff like i've hatched every kind of weird and not genetic anomaly you can have practically it's like the one thing i haven't hatched is the the phenotypical uh homozygous animal where it shouldn't occur i know that's possible and i've seen it happen and whenever it happens people invariably jump to the least likely explanation but there is some hidden gene involved or that you know or that the mother must have been a hit after all it's like you know no it's the you know it's genetically broken and if i were to dare breed that snake it might really unleash a Pandora's box of confusion in two two generations later because it's almost certainly missing some genes and stuff on from one from the from the mother side stuff if you've got missing information so it just expresses a heterozygous animal that's missing another that other allele from the mother and buses expressing the homozygous phenotype the one gene it does have but it's not really a hat but if you were to breed that animal as a say you were to breed it to a head female you would get exactly the ratios you would expect you would get half-grants half-hets but the heads you got half would be normal genetic heads half would be nulled heads they would be heads that are not they would they would be missing they wouldn't actually have any copies of the granny gene they would be missing one copy of that gene at that locus though and that's very different so the first generation you get exactly what you predicted but anybody that bought heads from that pairing would be a possibility they'd just be getting animals that are missing genes entirely and then if you were to breed those animals together you could conceivably get like both copies could be but you could just be you're making increasingly more genetically broken animals then they could be consequence there almost certainly would be consequences of that if you've got no copies of a gene or multiple genes potentially so it's like I don't think it's wise to breed that snake but it's like you could most people would just like sell it what would they do they would sell it as a granite because it's really granite oh there's a granite didn't expect that don't know where that came from oh it's a granite but you know a couple generation of the line you can have all kinds of problems and stuff with that kind of a thing so I've seen this happening carpets before I want to say it was was it Jake Milbrant who was it years ago they bred a a jag to a jag sibling back when people thought jags siblings were something magical and then down with magical powers right there special and endowed with magical powers it's like yeah my house they're just called normal coastal carpets whatever but uh they uh it was a jag to a jag sib and they had a dead lucy in the clutch and there was oh it must be some you know thought it convinced the course stare at it too long convince yourself of something that is not really what's going on and uh you know because it wasn't a jag to jag it was a jag day you know and then all kinds of speculation is on the old mp4 another topic of conversation late and uh about how you know might might have found you know some new way to make a white carpet you know which of course what it was was an animal that got the jag gene from the dead and the mom's gene didn't come across at all and it just had a null the leo and thus throughout the whole snake and thus it defaulted to a white snake because that was the one gene it did have so it expressed homozygous jaguar and was dead and stuff so but i mean people always jump to the conclusion they want a lot of times not necessarily what you know the evidence really is telling you right but uh it'd be nice to demystify that so i've had them i'll talk about like chimerism and all that and you know it's a good one of those last year and then they got the the complete it's effectively a complete paradoxism that it's like it's every gene and it's it's the whole snake it's just looks like something it actually kind of sort of isn't uh so yeah yeah who knows what all that i'm i'm gonna be kind of maybe an extra high something else weird i don't know probably hatch 500 babies a year there's bound to be something weird going on what else is there left i mean you just said you pretty much cleared everything i mean now we're gonna uh yeah i kind of run the yeah i mean i've had all the weird i've had two two headed carpets in the same year like in the same month i hatched two i had a two-headed ivory and a two-headed zebra um wow but that never lasts really the number of those that survive is that's pretty ridiculously unlikely i mean i can't let me ramp any hatched one years ago it's can they eat and usually 99 times that 100 there's an obstruction where the spines are fused and they can't pass a meal and they died so i forgot two two-headed ones i've had i've had three sets of identical triplets three sets of them oh my god i've had a low year on twins i've only had five sets of identical twins as you're um only five i've got a couple points left but it's i had one set so far yay i've had five sets in one clutch before i mean it's uh so that kind of a you know i was four sets of twins and a set of triplets in one clutch double double all the baby right and uh one of the triplets was the father of one the two-headed ivory jungle i kept i kept back one of the surviving male triplets and i brought him to his sister and got two sets of twins one of which was fused in the way two-headed ivory jungle so right yeah i've had two-headed a couple two-headed ones i've had you know a really good paradox now i've had a few minor paradoxy ones but the one good kyraero type one uh now this complete granite where it shouldn't possibly be uh stuff uh uh so yeah there's always something there's weird things like uh you can feel we have a snake with one head and two bodies i've seen that before i've got hatched one that's really rare i mean there's there's all kinds of freaks i can i can still hatch and stuff i suppose but like i said you get to like the four or five hundred babies of a year and you'll see there's bound to be some anomaly in there most years so yeah i would imagine so yeah so yeah so okay you have to look forward to as you keep producing more and more babies every year i'm never going to get as high as numbers you neck i mean yeah i used to say that too i used to say other dumb things like if i just build this snake building then i won't have any reptiles in my house anymore and as i'm sitting in my office with a bunch of friggin blue tongue skinks three big cages like decos a friggin tarantula why don't i have a tarantula yeah and like i'm thinking like i'm putting some cv 70 you're actually i'm getting me some more skinks you know like yeah so we we say all kinds of dumb things that way so it's like you never say never i never thought you know i never thought i was going to i mean at some point i decided i was going to breach snakes full time and i would do this right a significant level but i mean for a long time that wasn't what the plan yeah it's kind of uh you know i thought oh you know at least i told myself that and i certainly told my wife that oh no it's you know just a couple more just a couple more it's like you realize that you just really what it is you really want to do in life and it's like i'm going for it and you do so oh there you go there's another example yeah you know you do it you just do it you just do it you just pick up that guitar and you jam with that even anyone you do it it's like you hey i made it google eddie van halen right now it's ridiculous that's sad if i got a good go any van halen maybe i'm just a child of the eddies but he didn't know but you know that that should be yeah uh upon upon somebody in the head if they don't know who he is thank you over such an old school metal head anyway i mean it just jeez so it's uh the planer eruption ready van halen so that is often yeah yeah not the easiest bit to play either no you know that again that's another thing like when i first heard that song it was just like there's no way that i would ever be able to do that and i was like you know what well i can do this and that's not much different than that oh wait a minute yeah i probably could do holy shit then when you start to be able to do it a little bit and then you get pumped up and then you can do a little bit more a little bit more yeah yeah you just kind of find that little part of your brain that tells you you can't do stuff and then just carve it out with a melon scooper let's do that take a little melon baller thing and just scoop that part of your brain that says i can't do this shit and you just scoop that part out and once that's done you'd be surprised what you can accomplish when you stop telling yourself you can't do stuff you just believe you can just like the confidence or cockiness or whatever it is to believe that you believe you can pull it off you'd be surprised how much how far that'll go i mean you can uh like i can do this it might be hard might take a long time but i'm not incapable of doing this i will figure this out and you believe that and you persevere you will generally figure it out and stuff so it's uh not having to just keep going so now that's awesome jam with any van halen's geez presence of greatness what's your dream one come on and we know mine was free thanks for my was to write books and free thanks for living i guess but uh and Eric's was to jam with that event halen what is your what is your unfulfilled dream or have you already done it it's not unfulfilled um my fulfilled dreams were to fuck around in a zoo for several years which i did um and raised several animals in my house including lions tigers grizzly bear porcupine lemurs and a cheater so that was pretty awesome that was mine now i know something about you i didn't know i've known you for years now i know something new about you what's your new dream you need to pursue i don't know we're so far off topic anyway there's no point to it let's pay off my mortgage in a steady rate and oh no i don't i got you on that one i done that yeah i mean like everybody's got that if you accomplish wondering you gotta then just have something else right i mean it's for yeah yeah 2016 is australia trip that's the new dream it's really i'll tell you that you got to go with me man we'll have a great time yeah that's right go it's uh it's uh it's intimidating the first time you do something like that australia is pretty easy though it's like it's like going to europe but with pythons and it's really hot but it's not like you know i've been to a lot of the developing world and stuff and that's you know a little different but this is it's like you know there's convenience stores and fast food it's not i mean it's it's easy to do okay just plot your gas stops out because you got the middle of nowhere and you might go a good you know quite a while without seeing any gas and stuff you gotta be a little cognizant of that when you're out in really remote areas but it's uh yeah it's it's like a pilgrimage if you're a carpet person you gotta do that yeah yeah so just as you lender called me up to the dead i'll talk to him all that off he's pretty busy guy we're both really busy talking for a good long while it is like i'm both just turning like this kind of homesick oh i need to give back to australia you know it's like it's turning but it's more on lament of like how can we possibly get back to australia as soon as possible uh it's uh it's just like nothing else it's like every day it's like you're an animal planet there's gonna be some every morning with some crazy animal walking around it's just always something it's uh yeah it's as awesome as you think it is and you have built it up in your mind to be it is actually in fact that awesome really yeah oh yeah if you're right spot you go drive around at night you will find pythons in the road virtually you will you know where you're going right what you're going to find stuff uh you know you will i mean we went and we got terrible weather this last time in western Australia just terrible weather and it was uh and there were still snakes all over the place i mean it's like i we would have been the weather was cooperative i can't imagine how much we found but we'd still go out and find you know 15 snakes in the night i mean and that was with all the conditions being completely awful i mean and you still find that much stuff so i mean you get like almost like oh another death adder you know it's like oh man like the seven one in the last two hours you know you're kind of but you think they're symphons pythons because in your cruise in the road they kind of look like a stimmy so you know that's a horrible mistake yeah but i mean it's pretty meat i mean it's like you're just you don't you don't cruise for more than a half an hour that's something being in the road is some weird that and you have a lot of uh you have this like every and Ryan had this debate a couple of times where they're like snake or lizard snake or lizard because it wasn't a python and it's like well if it's a snake it's an elapid so we best not touch it but it might be a legless gecko because they have a whole huge family of pygopod which are basically legless geckos that eat other geckos they're always on the road so you're trying to figure out is this an elapid or some sort of harmless legless gecko thing i would do a lot of different ones and you're like staring at it for a long time kind of not letting just kind of do your boot kind of heart what is it and then you're like oh and you find like okay lizard and then you mess with it it's like just this ridiculous you never thought you're gonna have to debate whether it's something on the lapid or a lizard or not but that happens having it a couple times so you're it's just it's magical you know what you're really bad for your body food you know meat pies and sausage rolls and all the usual australian convenience food and everything but it's delicious and it's just yeah the best i just you come all night with your buddies shooting this year catching snakes eating crappy foods awesome right it's the best i've ever so if you're going to go and you don't invite me able to be really personally offended and i'm telling that to everybody listening now so you'll be you already offended my sensibilities once and when you apparently are now going to attend the southern carpet fest when i tried to get you to attend the northwest carpet fest for two years now and it's not but you will apparently go to texas so wait hold on hold on hold on hold on with that right i i gotta i gotta say something on this the actual date for the northwest carpet fest was next week the original date was next week so i took off of work and then it got switched to the week of tingly and all intentions on common so i said all right well there's no northwest car yeah i don't know looking into these allegations but uh so you just gotta hang out and everything but i see how it is i see how it is you can go to texas that's fine i got great friends down in texas is you'll hang out you'll meet i'm sure michael penelope there is a great guy bill i mean there's some there's a bunch of great keepers down there and stuff is showing going christian uh yeah i don't know i'm not sure uh i'll have to find out and see yeah i'll check it guys on there nothing to i mean i i'd like to go myself i got you know this month is tough because i got it derived 1300 miles to Sacramento here in a couple weeks and then i got the Seattle show and then carpet fest was a week before that i think it's just kind of every weekend i'm having to drive several hundred miles so yeah can't make it down to what is the the southern carpet fest next week uh oh man yeah yeah that'll be a good time let me get time i'd like to get guys down there so but yeah i'll be offended i better see your ass the northwest next year yeah uh like i said i was playing on go and i had a book i had and then you know they made it the same day so i ended up working out but hey who knows good or something you should i love going places i get so i live in a i mean not a bad place to live but it's like i i you know i had a very much uh like getting the hell out of town and stuff so it's like to go talk snakes and hang out and stuff i'm gonna i think i'm going to the Sacramento show i don't expect to make much of the way of money and what it's like just kind of go hang out with scott and all and sam from perp nation and everything i just kind of go eat a bunch of fufu restaurants and hang out and have a good time for a few days and perfect yeah except for when you gotta turn around and realize like i have to drive for 20 hours now like that yeah that sucks i mean yeah 13 out first legs 13 hours and then you pass out for a couple hours and i gotta drive another 300 miles to get home but it's uh realize how far away for everything you live at that point but that's fun say anybody it's in a bay area and everything go to the Sacramento show at the end of the month i'll be there yeah i will likely have a number of carpet blinds with me it seems likely that uh i'll have some stop by say i like doing shows i love the social aspect of it it's a lot of work that i'm getting old it's tough it seems like it's more work than it was younger but it's uh it's a lot of fun that when you're there and hanging out and having a good time yeah i keep telling i keep telling Owen that once he gets into the upper 30s early 40s you know it's like you some switches and you're like man that's used to be it used to be easy to do so easy anymore i know man i mean it's like i'm getting so old it's just ridiculous and man i'm sharing too much or something but it's like i'm just like geez some days man it's like it's like every like when you were young and you didn't have to get up three times a night to pee remember that how long was that right i mean like i gotta get a physical because you know i'm like i'm in a lot better shape than it was like a year and a half ago that's that's all good but i'm like i gotta get a physical kind of like cholesterol check or any of that i need to kind of get a baseline to everything i'm like trying to give me the old guy flow max so you don't pee all night medication like that so if you're on if they're giving you flow max so you have to pee three times of that you are old there is no a way around that there's no denying it you can't cover it up you're old at that point i'm like you kidding me i'm like it's a bad cholesterol medication dude i'm like it's just a tiny bit hot i'll just eat less bacon give me a little bit of me i'm like how old dude i'm like 70 i mean jeez i'll be like yeah things you take for granted like you know yeah i'm very close to being that you kids get off my lawn i'm almost to that point but it's it's coming it's coming yeah that happened to me you have here there i had i had that moment where i was like yeah god damn it you kid she's freaking out oh man yeah it's oh geez yeah it's you're getting old it's bullshit man i don't know that just to tell you the that's my latest thing it's like i gotta pee every two hours when i'm trying to go to sleep it's just ridiculous like yeah and i was like just like welcome to being over 40 this sucks you know you'll see you like my knee just started hurting for no damn reason i gotta like cause enjoyed pain like what the hell like just falling apart or something man i'm like i got you i haven't been looking forward to yeah i got bitch slapped by 40 because what happened is when i turned 40 i felt okay like i still felt like i was 30 actually i still thought in my mind i was 20 like in my 20s you know like oh yeah everything's fine no whatever and then i remember distinctly i was in the shower i woke up for work and i get up early for work but i'm like sitting there and i'm like oh my god i just hurt i'm so tired i can't lift up shampoo bottle what's going on and i just i just turned 40 oh fuck oh yeah yeah i threw i threw my back out scrambling eggs one time like i was like scrambling eggs like oh oh what the hell you know i'm like what the hell is that even possible yeah oh that's classic you'll see y'all and oh man yeah just wait it's all downhill minded up for me yeah yeah oh man you're like testosterone level drops and you see it's like everything just takes forever to heal and you feel beat up all the time it's like this episode it's like jesus i don't know it's like this uh preview come attractions for oh and see the young buck here you can be he'll be there soon he'll laugh at us all guys now but uh i think i think i'm coming for all the 30s all right give me a year to get the 31st and then we'll have these 29 yeah yeah oh jeez you're saying you're saying man child or something oh my god jeez i was telling them the other day when we were talking we were having this conversation i was like i've been breathing carpet by then since you were like nine or ten years old that's like that's in this part in the early 80s i'm like i was born in the late 80s but go ahead no no you just for the records you do know who who hadn't even held his then right yeah because you're my father's fault he did yeah okay so that was great for the good alcohol that was amazing yeah good job man good job jeez that was the joke we were sitting there talking and i was like you know a lot of times when i talked to oh and i think of us as the same age like i just for whatever reason it's just i i don't i don't know why i just think we're the same and uh maybe you're just very immature Eric and that's yeah that's that's that's that's possible and then i said to him i said god damn you know and i could be your dad me and jim are probably better could be better friends than me oh jeez yeah old man 29 geez that's that's a good year so that's a good time there that's all it's all downhill now that's right just remember when you wake up tomorrow that's the best you're ever going to feel and the next day it will be slightly worse than that forever oh it's like they're just like it will like you'll never feel as good as you are right now it's just going to get worse you can always get things you know if you walk it up like the stairs in your house and you're like what's that noise and you realize that your body make a noise it's like what's that noise and then when you stop moving the noise stops then you walk a few more definitely you stop and it stops it's because it's your body that's making a noise like your knees grind in or whatever it's like that's uh yeah the joy see that everybody's completely listening it's completely transfers with jerry at your grumpy old man yep yep yeah now it's not only understand oh yeah well it's true so i guess it's well we're going to get cut off anyway that's true yeah we're acknowledging the truth crap is that late already yeah i come to you guys and we totally lose track of time it happens yeah let's out lamenting our old age oh but that's good times um let's see uh you're going to be uh i'm gonna show you what was the show you're going to be what was the show you're going to be at Sacramento oh yeah i got sacramentic coming up into the month and then you know Seattle obviously i'm always at uh a few weeks later in Seattle and then carpet pass i think it's i think it's like every weekend for like three weeks i've got somewhere i gotta be that's hundreds of miles away from where i live so okay man people can check out what you have available carpet flight found lines over always i have to say this this novel kind of idea it's like if you go to my actual website the availability page is actually up to date it's crazy i've kind of thinking outside the box uh you know and everything so website availability where everything is available is actually on there and pictured and has an actual price right and is updated pretty much daily so it's like that's actually i give people a time like oh is this is this still available yeah it's there that's great that's great i actually they're just so surprised that someone actually keeps that current but that's a weird thing now apparently but yeah now that's uh okay that's all current also uh check out i do uh i do host a podcast not as good as uh not as uh good on the uh getting it out every week is there can oh in here but that's pretty hard not many people can claim to be as consistent as those guys as you guys are but uh i tentatively uh scott's been really riding everybody's ass to kind of be on a real tight production schedule with that and everything so it'll be uh much more reliable uh basically i'll be the first thursday of the month every time i'm actually gonna be a couple ahead of the game here so i get a little bit of a cushion going here but uh instead i also do a blog every two weeks uh through herbations as well so i just put another one of those uh yesterday as well that kind of dovetails with the episode of the podcast and everything because the subject matter in the podcast is pretty hardcore as far as most herbers are concerned genetics wise there's actually illustrations and stuff and diagrams to help kind of uh illustrate some of those points and concepts and stuff okay that uh and stuff so check that out if you're uh curious and want to take that genetic stuff to the next the next level beyond kind of the basics uh and stuff that's i guess always the goal to kind of challenge people's uh if you listen to something you should learn something if you invest an hour and listen to a show or whatever or two or whatever you should know something at the end of it you didn't know before it right you read a book you should i've learned something if you want i mean it's like you should everything you've been past any time and you should be a little bit smarter for having done that and that's kind of as always the always the goal and just like an issue you know anybody listening to it knows who eddy van Halen is and they know when you get old you have to pee at night they know that there we go they can expect that with their man when they get to be 40 their knees will grind and they'll have to pee all night that's right so now you know just passing that and paying that knowledge forward you know do it our part all right as always it's been a lot of fun and everything coming on and talking to you guys check out the stonewatch brettles if that's something to introduce you at least give me some feedback let me know what you think anyway and everything i don't talk to you guys later all right all right see you next thanks Nick all right okay oh and uh there we go all right yeah friday night all right we're gonna wrap it up real quick uh i don't think we need to go through all the details and the the uh the gory details of everything morality python raider.com look at that morality python forums go there uh you know i'll make it simple step one buy the complete carpet python step two yeah go to morality python forums step three listen to morality python radio step four buy from a morality breeder that is all that at all i don't know you got anything else on what else is uh next Tuesday next Tuesday we're gonna have uh we're gonna finish up the things that we're gonna talk about and then uh i don't i would got some stuff in the works for the couple weeks after that and then at the beginning of october we have the four year anniversary show so should be uh should be a good time so that's all i have i don't know what else you have but uh wrap it up what i got what i got is uh you can definitely go to robed best refiles.com check out all the stuff we have going on in over at rogue and then of course we have robed refiles at facebook.com check us out there and i will be at the white plane show on sunday if you would like us to bring an animal for you you can totally meet us down there uh if not i will not be vending so don't ask and yeah that's pretty much it it's all we got for you guys this week and we'll catch you all next week at the normal time for some more morality of python radio good night hey chad brown here you may remember me at the line back in nfl where the reptile breeder and their owner of projak i've been hurt since i was a boy and i've dedicated my life to advance in the industry and educate the community about the importance of reptile i also love to encourage the joy of breeding and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist which is why my partner robin and markeland and i created the reptile report the reptile report is our online news aggregation site bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world visit the reptile report.com every day to stay on top of latest reptile news and information we encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news photos and links so we can feature outstanding 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