Morelia Python Radio

Green tree pythons with Matthew Morris

In this episode we will be talking with Matthew Morris about green tree pythons. Have you ever wanted to keep chondros but felt that they were to difficult to keep? Well we will be talking about the misconceptions of the keeping and breeding these faboulous serpents. We will also be talking about were to go if you want to research about the species before making the leap into them. Matthew, along with David Newman has written an extensive how to about chondros and their care over on the MVF. Check it out at the link below. http://moreliaviridis.yuku.com/forums/93/Green-Tree-Python-Husbandry-The-Basics/Green-Tree-Python-Husbandry-The-Basics#.VaWf7_lVhHw

Duration:: 2h 28m
Broadcast on:: 05 Aug 2015
Audio Format:: other

[ snoring ] >> Hey, Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL, whereas a reptile breeder in the owner of Pro Jaks. I've been herping since I was a boy, and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptile. I also love to encourage the joy of breeding and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Marklin and I create the reptile report. This report is our online news aggregation site, bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of the latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news, photos and links so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists, just like you. The reptile report offers powerful, brandy and marketing exposure for your business, and the best part is, it's free. If you're a buyer or breeder, you've got to check out the reptile report marketplace. The marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling destination, full of features to help put you in touch with a perfect deal. Find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system, search by sex, weight, more, or other keywords, and use our Buy Now option to buy that animal right now. Go to marketplace.the reptilereport.com and register your account for free. Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptiles account to earn free tokens with each shipping label you book. Use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum mat. It also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page. Buy on your selling? Use shipereptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. Shipereptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use shipereptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. The materials need to ship the reptile successfully, live customer support in our live, on time, arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptilereport.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace. Find that perfect pet or breeder. Then visit shipereptiles.com to ship that animal anywhere in the United States. We are your one stop shop for everything reptile related. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - What's up, Moralia people? - Tonight we are talking Kondros in episode, guess what episode this is? - I don't know, 100. - 207 shows. - Holy shit, why are we doing this? - Anyway, 207, holy crap. - Yes, wow. - This is episode 207. We have Matthew Morris with us, we're going to be talking Kondros. We haven't had a Kondros show in a while. - Yeah, you guys are chomping at the pit. Yeah, we had to throw a bone to the Kondros people, everyone, so while we keep them happy and their bloodlust at a calm pace. - Yeah. And Matthew, he's one of the guys that is... He put together with David Newman, who's no stranger to the show, he's been on multiple times. They did like an extensive, I guess, like a care sheet type of thing for Kondros, it's over on the MDF. And it's pretty cool for people that, you know, want some information about Kondros, they should go over and check it out. - Yeah. - For those new people listening, Moralia veered his forum is what MDF stands for, so just look it up, go over. - Yeah. - And check things out. They also have a Facebook page, Moralia veered his forum Facebook group, so you could also check them out on Facebook, since everything is pretty much today on Facebook. But... - Can you say that sounding any more sadder? Like, can we go like, you know, this... Can we have like a sad piano playing while you say that? - I mean... - I mean, I need like the incredible Hulk music. - It's a sad walking music. - Yeah. Just like that. Every time you mention the forum, that's just what it happens. - Ding, ding, ding, ding. - Exactly. Perfect. Love it. - But, well, what I've seen as of late, it seems that, I guess, very closely related to the Kondro, but not quite as pretty as a Kondro. - Well... - The rough scale seems to be... - That's some people's opinion. - The rough scale seems to be the hot item of the week. - Yeah. We know two former guests have purchased rough scales and blamed me for it. So... I am so happy to take that blame, it's ridiculous. But Bill Spiggle got a trio, and then Jamie Kearns got himself a pair. So, there's some more rough scales heading around to people that we know in the little extended Morelia family, which is awesome. You're not allowed to buy any, though, because you have to buy them from me. So, you have to wait until I get mine breathing, okay? - I don't know if I can wait. - No, no, that is a rule. I'm making that a rule. - You know next year that they'll probably be right where I want to be. - I know, I know, I know. And Nick will probably produce them with Romulus, which is why I just feel like son of a bitch. But... - Well, see, I will get yours. - No, no, no, no. That's not count. - Nice try. - Yeah. - So, you were going there. - It doesn't count, but it's still like, it's something cool that I like having around, and I think they're a really cool species. So, hey, more than mayor. - Yeah, definitely. - I was telling you this before we got on the show, but I have one story before we bring Matt on. And, you know, when it comes to being a reptile nerd, I really am a reptile nerd. - Really? - Yeah. - Yeah. - You know, like, now that I can watch YouTube through my TV, it's kind of like... Sometimes I don't even watch TV. I just watched these different YouTube videos and whatnot. So, anyway, one of the fans reached out to me and said that there was this guy that has a YouTube page, and he keeps a bunch of different stuff and that I should check it out. And, honestly, I don't want to say it's HLH reptiles or something like that. - Yeah, okay. - So, I go on it and I'm watching it. - Yeah, he does a lot of, like, ball pythons and, you know, various other types of things. - Yeah. - And I'm flipping through, like, his videos, and I see the video for Tinley Park 2014. And I'm like... I said, "Oh, man, we were there. I wonder what he took pictures of, you know? I'm not even thinking of our booth or anything like that." So, I flip on the video and I'm watching it. And, next thing I know, I see Matt Minutol as Borneo's, and I'm like, "Wow, that's Matt's Borneo's." Oh, my God! - I know those animals. I know those animals. - Yeah, okay. - I don't think he's like... I don't know why I was so geeked out about it, but I'm like, "Oh, my God, that's so cool!" So, real quick, I'm messaging you guys. I'm like, "I just saw Matt's animals on the thing." So, they go around and then, sure enough, he's standing at our table. - Yeah. - And he's holding one of your animals. What the time, I didn't realize that it was your bruddles, pythons. - Well, baby bruddles, yeah. - Yeah, and I'm standing there and I'm talking to Phil from Star Pythons. And, you know, I'm like, "Oh, my God, I want a YouTube video! This is nuts!" - You know, like... - I'm like, "I want a YouTube video! We have a weekly podcast that goes around the world!" But you're like, "I want a YouTube video!" You're like, "Oh, my God! Bye, mom!" - I don't know, it was just weird, you know, like, to see yourself on the other side of it. Anyway, he goes back later on in the show and he shows these pickups. So, I'm like, "I must have picked up some ball pythons and whatnot." And he starts opening up and he pulls out a Borneo. And he says, "Yeah, there was a whole bunch of bloods and Borneo people there." And I'm thinking, "No, there wasn't." The only one that really had plenty of... It has to be Matt Snake. That has to be Matt Snake. So, he's going through this whole speech about the snake, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then he pulls out his business card and he holds up his business card. He's like, "Yeah, his name is Matt Minitola from Philly Herb, so if you ever want to, you know, check it out, here you go. Here's his card, you know, blah, blah, blah." So then he goes and he says, "I've been waiting to work with this species for quite a long time." And I finally pulled the trigger and I'm pretty excited. So, I'm thinking maybe he got like, you know, I don't know, white lips or something crazy. So, he pulls out his metal pythons. You know, like, metal pythons. The only one that I said, "Oh, my God, that's Owen Spreadle's python." So, I'm like, "Wait for him to hold up the Roog reptile card?" No, no, no, no. No, I forget that. He gives his lovely speech about Matt Minitola. And then he shows off these two very good-looking bridal pythons that I produced. And he goes on and on and on about them. And then he, nothing happens, it ends. Now, I'm not mad, I swear. If this guy's listening, I totally, I'm so happy that you're knocked over by these bridal pythons because I rarely ever get to see the after effect when people buy them, when they get them home. So, it was awesome seeing this dude, like, totally geek out over two animals that I produced. But I'm like, "Oh, no card." And so, it was kind of funny at the same time. It's funny at the same time, 'cause I messaged you. I'm like, "Those are my brittles. I didn't get a shot out. Apparently, I'm not that high-end." So, you would go this year with our brand new cards. Yeah, our new cards are going to be as cool worthy of "Shoutouts." God damn it. Yeah, maybe you'll get a shot out this year. I'm glad you workshoped your new logo just in time for Tinley Park, so maybe this time. I know, right? But it brings up a good... But it's so cool to watch it. Yeah, but it brings up a cool feeling that when you see animals that you've produced and with animals that you've raised, and I can only imagine what it's like for these guys doing it for 20-plus years. You know what I mean? And see animals that you've produced and those that have produced and must be pretty cool field. Well, I mean, what I've started to do is that if I have a really good picture of an animal and somebody buys it, I usually... I have a gallery on Rogue's Facebook page, which is "Soul Babies." And I started it off as people would send me pictures of babies as they kind of grew up a little bit. But what I've been doing now is as people buy the babies, I chuck them into that gallery with like, you know, what it is and when they bought it or who owns it now. And I like that because everyone's want to go in there and I'm like, Jesus Christ, these are all these babies. And I've only been doing this half the time as some of these guys. And that isn't even all the babies. It's just the ones that I particularly thought were, you know, really good looking or interesting looking or had a really good picture of them. Just something to chuck in there or they're going to somebody who is, you know, prominent in the community. Like, I have the one that the one, the caramel that you have is in that gallery because you have it. So, you know, and she's gorgeous. But, you know, above those things, it's like easy. So, there's a bunch of different stuff like that. I mean, it's just one of those things that like, it kind of would, it's something for people's potential customers to look at. And I would love to get more pictures of animals that I've produced as they got bigger. I think that would just be awesome. So, yeah, kind of trace where they were, where they were at. Or how they're growing up, if they look like their parents, some of that. Zach just sent me back a caramel he got from me in 13. And it looks just like her mother, like exactly to a tee. So, I may keep it. So, I don't know yet. But, nice. That's awesome. Okay. That's true. I guess that's enough rambling for me and you. That's enough rambling. Back to where we were. Let's see if this is a party starter yet man on here. Hey, Matt. Welcome to really Python radio. Glad to have you. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Of course. We're ready to talk some time. Yeah. I need to learn how to keep my Ruby ox happy, even though I'm pretty sure that's impossible. So, they're horrible. Matt, why don't you tell us. Oh, especially when Eric just gave me. I mean, I'm pretty sure he shuffled that off to me because he hates it. But we won't talk about that. He's not called Grendel for any reason. I don't know. Anyway. No, wait a minute. I thought Ruth was supposed to be calm and tame. No. He didn't get that memo. No, no. I've been bitten three times and we had him for like, what, four days? But anyway, Matt, why don't you give us some background into yourself and what got you started in breath tiles. Okay. I guess I'm always gravitated toward animals that were a little less desirable. You know, rats, bats, frogs, toads, lizards. Heavy entrances on reptiles, basically, from a young age. I guess there was two events really that kind of solidified my interest in reptiles and basically snakes in general. The first one was in elementary school. About fourth grade, I believe. I was kind of known for, you know, liking reptiles and my teacher came to me saying, hey, there's a snake on the playground. You know, it's on the kickball field. Go remove it and so I said, okay, so I went over there and the kids were kind of teasing it and messing around with it, taunting it. It was really pissed off. So I was able to neck it and I put it in a jar because I thought it was a little different. It looked a little different than anything else I'd really seen before. So I took it home and Dad kind of freaked out about it and said, oh my God, this is dangerous. This is Copperhead. You know, I can't believe you caught this thing. Holy crap. So he took it in the jar and he proceeded to go to the bathroom and he flushed it down the toilet. Oh my God. That was it. But I got a hold of it in the book and it turns out it wasn't a Copperhead at all. It was just a wash snake. Exactly. Yeah. And so, you know, I really felt bad. Yeah, I felt bad about a snake and so I kind of told myself, you know, I'm not going to make that mistake again. So I, you know, I started trying to learn as much as I could about identifying local snakes. And so that kind of lead me into the next little chapter. I was in the school library about a year later and I came across a book and it was basically on Bill Hoss and then Miami's Secretarium. And it showed pictures of him working with King Cobras and milking different venomous snakes. And I just, I mean, I just stared at that book for, oh God, I don't know how long, two weeks. And I was just totally hooked. I mean, that's just kind of, you know, really solidified my interest in snakes right there. Nice. So there were several points in your story where I was panicking where I'm like, so the teacher just sent this child out for a snake. That's terrible or that could have ended poorly. It was a coverhead. I mean, yeah, this is there wasn't much thought with that. No, no, that is, if that happened today, that would be stupid anyway. So how did you find your way into just pretty much general interest of snakes towards condos? Oh, goodness. Sometime around the mid 80s, I was working with Amazon tree boas and yeah, and this is early on. I just, I liked to boil tree, you know, tree pythons or tree boas at that time. And one of my buddies knew one of the curators at Fort Worth, a zoo named David Blodie. I believe his name is David Blodie. Anyway, I got a, I arranged to get a kind of behind the scenes tour of the reptile house up there. And we were walking around and seeing the normal stuff and Dave kind of pulled me to, I really got something to show you. So he went over to a box and he lifted up a cover on it. And sitting right in the middle of that was a, you know, I have no idea what the type was locality type, but it was just this hormonal blue female condo behind around a bunch of eggs. And that was the first time I've seen a live green tree. And it was blue, it was blue to sell in blue, which is gorgeous. And that left really quite an impression on me. So that was, that's how I really got into it. That is one of those things where it's just like everybody kind of drifts towards condos. It's the second they see a blue one. So I don't know why, but it's in the blue one. Everybody's like, Oh, blue one done blue snake on a tree. I bet it's all I ever want now. So. Fall pipe on a stick. Anyway, what's Matt, what size collection are you working with now? I am pretty small compared to some people, but I guess pretty big compared to others. I'm kind of limited to what I got. I might have more, but I have no room, so I can't get any bigger room. I have 12 adults. I've got 15 sub-adults ranging from anywhere from two to three years old. And then I've got 10 yearlings. And I've got a brand new Blaze Neo that I got from Bill Stiegel. Which is a latest clutch. And I just acquired a signal harp profile or canary from that option. Yeah. So that's the extent of my collection right now. Wow, is the Kofi is it? What's it look like? Is it yellow? Is it green? Oh, it's not a full yellow one. It's kind of a muddy yellow. Pretty good amount of green in there, but it's a faded green. So I don't know how else to describe it. It's a dirty yellow, I guess. It's a three week old banana. Where it's kind of like a greenish yellow kind of a thing. Maybe a little fuzzy. Yeah, did it look any different? Like, for instance, if you look at a Rue and a B.E.A.C. and you notice a difference in the Kofi house? Oh, this one, yeah, you could. There's some where you couldn't. I mean, some are really just, you know, a green, green snake. Most part, but some will be that dirty yellowish. And sometimes they'll, I mean, they'll, they'll fade in and out of a brighter yellow to a dirtier yellow. I've seen them do that a couple times. You know, just, I don't know what it is. I don't know the hormones. I don't know what it, what's causing it, but then we'll change color to some degree. Okay. Right. So there's some alteration of the color. So now, can you tell us about the Kondro care sheet that you and Dave Newman put together on the M.B.F. and what prompted you guys to, what prompted you guys to kind of do this? Um, there's several different, uh, several different factors in this. Um, kind of a long-winded story. So if I, uh, tend to be a little long-winded, I'm trying to go for it. Go for it. Do it. Do it. What you're here for. All right. Awesome. Um, I guess it started out. I was doing the guide, uh, not a guide, but I was doing a care sheet for my customers because I didn't have one at the time. And I wanted something to give to them. Uh, but at the same time, there were several issues that we were noticing on the M.B.F. forum, um, that were kind of, we kind of wanted to make something a little more, um, easy to access. Um, I guess the most important factors was that there was a lot of myths and misconceptions about green trees. And, uh, a lot of this information could be found on the internet. But a lot of it was incorrect and, you know, potentially dangerous to the snakes. I mean, some of it was just, um, just flat out wrong. And, um, so that was one of the things we noticed. Um, the other thing, um, the, the information that was out there was old. And then in the, a lot of the, um, techniques and husbandry aspects had changed over the years, you know, Maxwell's book, uh, came out in 2005. And it was a great book at the time, and it still really is a great book. Um, but some of those practices are a little outdated. Some of the husbandry methods have changed and, uh, those changes weren't really easy to find. So that was the other reason. Um, the third reason is that we were getting a lot of people, um, coming onto the forum and asking the same questions over and over, which, you know, the forum is all about that. You know, we're trying to educate people. Um, and the members were really good about answering questions. Uh, but we thought, hey, you know, why don't we have something here that's easily accessible, accurate, you know, up to date. Um, and maybe we can, you know, say some of these snakes, you know, because a lot of them. What's too late, um, a lot of times for some of them. And so we thought, well, maybe we can get some information out there that can save some of these animals. So, um, that's pretty much the first, the first, uh, the main reasons why we wanted to do the guide. Um, so how did you guys go about doing it? Um, how do we go about doing it? We, um, yeah, I contacted, uh, Greg Schrader. Uh, he's the main moderator from the MDF and, uh, I ran it by him. He thought it'd be a great addition to the forum. And so, um, you know, decided, you know, what to do this. Um, the information together and, uh, it became obvious very quickly that I wasn't going to be able to do this alone. Um, so I started trying to figure out who I could list to help me. And, uh, I started reading David Newman's long-winded post on MDF. And, uh, I noticed he was, uh, pretty darn good with words. He was, uh, much, much better of a wordsmith than I was. And so, uh, I approached him about helping me out. And, uh, he agreed, uh, to help me find lots of projects and get it set up on the MDF, uh, for everybody. Awesome. I'm sure it's obviously been helpful in some places for somebody. I mean, he was, I mean, I'm sure it's been helpful for somebody who's just getting into Kondros to kind of read this and go forward. I mean, I, I bet you there's probably somebody somewhere who was really kind of screwing up who may have even killed their animals. Yeah, well, that was the whole reason, you know, to, you know, give somebody a good starting point. You know, it's not, it's not fully comprehensive on the care of green trees, but it's the basics and it should get you, you know, it'll keep us make alive, at least it should. Well, hopefully it will. I think so. I mean, that's the main point. That's the main point. Yeah, David made a huge help with this project. So I can't really think him enough of that. He's put a lot of time into it and, you know, it probably wouldn't be readable without him. Is you said in the, like some of the misconceptions about Kondros, what would you say that is the biggest misconception that people have about Kondros, like people contacting you and asking you a question or something that they thought was, you know, their perception of how Kondros are. Right. I think the main two that I can think of right now is that they're, they're mean and that they're hard to keep. Probably the, the main two that I get the most, you know, questions about, or it's just a, it's the reputation they have, you know, hopefully we can, to bunk that myth. Yeah, yeah, yeah, carpets kind of get the same thing. I mean, this is kind of off topic from what we're going to talk about, but it always, I'm always wondering, and I guess it might be hard to say on the, on a podcast, but what would you, how do you recommend handling. A condo like removing it from the perch and, and, and getting it in your hands. Most of these animals, you know, they're all individuals, first of all, and it really depends on how that snake is behaving. I mean, in reading your animal is a very key point when you're keeping drugs, it's knowing. You know, read your animal know what it, know what it likes doesn't like. I get an animal off a perch. I'll do it. I try to do it. Let him come off. You know, I may have to bump him on the tail or something to get him moving, but I let him do all the work. I don't, I don't really peel him off the perch, if I could avoid it. I don't think there's, I think I have maybe two animals that really kind of scare me. They're not real happy to be moved. But the rest of them, the rest of them, I can, you know, I can, I can hand gently under their, you know, behind their head and kind of lift them off the perch and get them moving. Right. And that's the adults, you know, if they're young, I really don't try to mess with them. If there's anything, you know, under a year, I don't mess with them very much. I think there's a lot of problems that can happen with the spine. They're still real delicate. I just don't want to take a chance with it. Did that answer your question? Yeah, absolutely. All right. Yeah. Well, let's talk about how you keep chondros. What's your thoughts on keeping chondros and what are some tips that you would give listeners that are just getting into them. What's your approach. If I keep chondros. What's my question. I have, I've changed my approach over the years. Compared to when I first got out, you know, I had a long, along the lines of Terry Phillip, right on to. Oh, I'm missing it. Lower temperatures. I have nighttime drops and all my cages all year round. Although summer here, because I don't get much of a drop. Just because it is hot. So, if there's anything, I don't miss what the substrate and getting ready to shed. Pretty, pretty big stuff as far as, I mean, it's not been mind blowing here. I don't have any new relations, but other than just going more simple and stressing about a lot of the things that I used to, you know, keep high humidity in there and I think causes more. Than it's worse. Right. Right. Okay. For new, new people. I would say don't buy on impulse. Do your research first. It's get everything you need up first before you bring your animal home. Do not. I mean, I don't think. I think captive US captive born and bred is your best route for a beginner. I think that they're the easiest. They're well started. At least they should be. If you get it from a regular reader, they will be. It's more of a positive experience to start out with and they're established. You start going to cheap route and you. Farm red slash imported ones that a lot of issues can happen with those. I don't think they're the best bet for beginners. Yeah, I would agree. What kind of what kind of cage in are you using to use cages racks? I've got for my adults. I use Jim Sharforn cages. I've got the 30 35 34 by two by two. My adult females and I keep my males in the two by two cubes. For the adults for my. Yearlings up to about two years of age, I have. I have a rack system that's back heated. Various size tubs. You know, I tend to move when they need to be moved up size wise. I'll move the tub size up on the rack. For the NIO's, I got regular six court shoe boxes with. So tanger purchase and. Just a basic paper towel substrate on the NIO's. Okay. What about your approach to feeding you? I mean, I see this that some kind of people like to keep their snakes bigger. Some people smaller. What's your thoughts? Yeah, I guess that's another another thing I've done over the years is I've I've really backed off of the feeding. Kept them smaller, tried to fit them down a little bit. I don't. I do feed rats occasionally, but I think that rats have to be done carefully. I don't think that. I mean, they've been, you know, prior to. What we're how we're keeping it in today. I mean, there were many, many condos that were raised strictly on rats and, you know, they all produced babies. So I think it can be done, but I think it has to be done very carefully. Most of my adults are fed adults to jumbo mice. And occasionally a rat, not too often, but occasionally to change things up a little bit. Yeah, I'm curious of your thoughts on that. I had a conversation with somebody from Australia and we were talking about very diet. You know, we were talking about carpets and in particular at the time, but I wonder. I mean, I know, like, if we ate the same diet all the time, we would survive. I wonder if it does anything nutritionally for the animal to, you know, to change up the diet every once in a while. Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I think it's, I don't think it's a bad thing. I mean, I know a lot of people are worried about introducing something, you know, some kind of parasite or bacteria into a condo from from a different food item. You know, that's always a concern or it is for some people. But yeah, I mean, changing it up, you know, a chick every now and then, a wrap up or, you know, a rat weaning or something like that. I personally, I don't, I think it's a good thing. I don't know how it could be bad other than, you know, if you're really worried about diseases and stuff, you know, coming from the different prey item. Right. So I don't, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean, they, they, yeah, I thought it was interesting when we were having the conversation that, you know, he was talking about that he, he buries it up and he's actually noticed the difference in the color of the snake. Oh, wow. He was doing it with him in Burkata in particular, but he did this experiment with a bunch of of these snakes and he noticed the difference, which I thought was pretty interesting. Huh. Okay. It is interesting. With that being said, what do you think about, do you have any thoughts behind this is another one that I think people forget about, but water, just water in particular. I know here in Philadelphia and Owen can attend. There's very hard water. Yes. You know, do you have any thoughts on water quality when it comes to contrast? Um, a little bit. I, you know, we have hard water here as well. And, you know, when I used to spray my cages, I'd get, you know, the build up, you know, all over the back wall on the windows sometimes. Um, I read something, um, somewhere back in the archives of, um, of the N.V.F. Uh, and I think Maxwell said something like he thought that hard water was causing kidney failure in his Nios. I don't know if there's any truth to that. Um, but I start my Nios when I do my Nios up to about six months. I do them on pure bottled spring water. And, um, you know, I don't know. I, you know, I've had people, you know, say that it doesn't matter, but. I just, that's just where I start them. You know, about six months, then I'll start slowly changing over to my tap water. You know, we have tap water here. It's really good quality. It is hard, um, but it's, it's good quality. I think that if I had to change something, I think, um, and I may do this, um, but I may get a filter that eliminates the chlorine out of the water. Um, I think the less chemicals that we put into those snakes, the better. Uh, but I'm not doing that right now. I'd like to, and I may do that for future, but as of right now, I just use a tap water on all my animals. Right. One of those water filtration systems for the house or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Um, I have a question coming in from, uh, from Buddy from, uh, Stony Creek captives. He says, what do you think is the optimal size for a condro? Optimal size. Um, male or female, um, I guess is what I would ask. Let's do female. Uh, both. That's too good. All right. Um, yeah. Um, I think after listening to Daniel, and his thoughts on, you know, the size of wild condros. Um, I, I really, I think that each animal is going to be different. Um, I've got several. Animals that turned out to be much larger. Then, uh, for instance, I've got a, um, a lemon tree, beock male. That was outgrowing. Uh, an animal, a male from the same year. It was about five months difference in the hash date, but he was twice the size of that other male. And I think some of the animals are just going to be bigger. Um, I don't, I don't know what to tell you. I, I, I grow mine fairly slow. My females will tend to be bigger, faster than the males. Um, but optimal weight. Um, I don't know. I mean, it's, I think that after four years, uh, when the female is ready to breed. Um, you know, if she's, if she's above six hundred grams at four years, and like I said, I don't push my animals, but I also don't starve them. But if she's six hundred grams or better at four years of age, I'm going to put her with a male. Um, I don't have a problem with that. The age is more important, really, uh, for female males. Um, they can, you know, they're, they can be ready to go at, uh, 250 grams sometimes. So it's, so, you know, I've heard, I've heard of that. I've never had one, but I have heard of that. Um, so, I don't know, I don't, I don't know if I have a good answer for that. All right. Uh, I think wouldn't don't you think that maybe even within low calorie, I would think. Yeah. Um, I was thinking that too. Um, I had a, I mean, a female years ago that I mean she barely pushed 700 grams. Uh, then I saw the one that, uh, Bill Stiegel had, and that thing's a monster, I mean, compared to the one I had. So, um, you know, I would like to think that, you know, each locale type may have a general size, but I don't know what that would be. I think they're each individuals and they're going to, you know, they're going to grow at different rates, depending on how you feed them and stuff like that. Yeah, I would think it's with, I mean, some, with every animal, you're going to have some that are bigger, smaller. I mean, look at me, you know, when you got real big guy. All right. Exactly. I've gotten better. Jesus Christ. I was talking about height. Oh, and I don't know what you're talking about. Oh, I never talking about feeding and raising carbon python's again about how like, you know, your 2013s are getting the worms and monitor like eight feet monsters. So anyway, I digress. Yeah. Um, what about, you know, I, I all think go back and forth with this and, and I was curious on your thoughts. Uh, on somebody that's, uh, maybe getting a, like a chondro as a pet or, you know, they're going to set it up, maybe an acoustic type of enclosure. Um, but I often wonder, it seems it's chondros are more, um, more susceptible distress, which can lead to various issues. Do you think that, uh, like keeping them in a naturalistic setup? Uh, do you think there's pros and cons to that? Do you think that's more for the keeper more for the kept? Uh, I think there's some merit in, in a natural, the very situation. Um, I think it enriches, you know, the snake has more to explore and keep them occupied. And, you know, if it's heavily planted or have a lot of fake plants in there, it probably would make him feel more secure and less prone to stress from, you know, things moving around outside the cage. Um, I think that that's, yeah, it is for the keeper. Um, but I think to some degree, it's also for the snake. Um, I would think that a natural aquarium or the very much that, um, would be good for people with small collections if they choose to go that route. Um, you know, bioactive substrate would be awesome. Uh, I think that's really a cool idea. And if I had one or two chondros, I would probably do that. However, with the collection I have, um, I don't think it's practical. Um, time-wise to have a set up like that. I think that, uh, there's a lot, a lot going on and maybe needs too much of the, of my time. So to be able to take care of it. Um, but yeah, I think, I think there's a definite advantage. Um, at least visually, uh, they're awesome looking. And I think there is a little bit of, um, a little bit of a helpful. Additional exercise and exploration, exploration for the snake to, you know, I guess what's the, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Um, Oh, I don't know. I can't think of it right now, but, uh, just extra stimulus. That's the word I was looking for. And Richmond and stimuli. Yeah, I got you. My zoo stuff coming out again. Anyway, um, but I could definitely see that. I mean, obviously if you have an entire bank of chondros or a bunch of cages having a naturalistic set up and each one would be daunting. Um, but if you only got one or two, why not set them up with a naturalistic set up? So I could see that. So that's cool. Um, I would be just more concerned about temperature and stuff of that. If you put a big display of room and tanking your, like living room or something like that. So I guess that would hold me back. Um, but let's talk breeding chondros because that's what a lot of people, whenever we do a chondro show, that's what everybody's like glued to is they want to know how the hell do they make more of these things. So they want to always hear about exactly what everybody we have on does for breeding. Uh, so why don't you, uh, why don't you walk everybody's sticks really different. But, um, why don't you quick. Just do as a quick overview of your, uh, breeding and then we're going to walk through some questions too. So how do you get your guys set up for. All right. Um, I guess I start off, um, here in Texas where I'm at, it doesn't really start getting. Cool until about October. And that's usually when I'll start putting my guys together. Usually I'll see if I see a male cruising around earlier. If he goes off feed and he starts cruising, then I'll find a female foreign. Put him in and I don't, I don't start. I don't really cool. Like I said, I have a. Uh, I run about 82 daytime high to about a 75 degree nighttime drop. And I do that year round. Um, during the summer, I don't, I don't get, I only get it like a 70 down to a 79 degree. Um, Fahrenheit drop here in the summer. Um, come October, it does start dipping down a little bit more. Um, but I don't, I don't cool them. You know, for say, um, and I will introduce. Go ahead. I mean, so do you think that cycling males in and out of breeding? I mean, uh, do you think that's kind of, uh, makes a huge difference when you're trying to breed a big girl to a little guy? I mean, I know you said you're like, you said you don't really cool down at all or anything like that. I do cool down. It's just not okay. It's not really drastic. I do it with the weather. Okay. And as our weather here gets cooler, my temperatures inside the house will go down. So it's, it's gradual. Like I said, in October, it starts the nighttime starts getting down. You know, we may get, uh, in the low 70s, uh, 73, 72, you're somewhere in there. Okay. And so, so it's, I do have a nighttime drop. Um, but it, it's basically based on the weather, you know, outside weather. Yeah. And it can be, it varies a lot. Um, but so if I put a male in with a, uh, a small male in with the big girls that we were saying. Yeah. Yeah. So a small boy with a big girl, because that's usually what all of where some people kind of run into problems is getting a little boy to breed a big girl. Yeah. I think that, at least with me, um, first time males, if it's a small male and the girl is, is, you know, noticeably bigger. Um, if it's his first time, I'll usually put her in with him. And then they go, if, if they're not compatible, if she starts whipping her tail and whipping your rates all around, I'll, I'll let them sit in there for a few minutes just to make sure that she didn't calm down. If she doesn't calm down, if she grounds herself and she still spraying your rates everywhere, I'll take her out. Yeah. Yeah. It's it. Yeah. That's clearly, clearly we're not happy here. So, yeah. Why, why can't you do this crap? Um, whatever will pull them out. Exactly. So if I have a, if I have a male that's an aggressive breeder, but he's small. Yeah. I'll, you know, I'll put him in with him. I'll put him in the females cage. I'll, you know, depending on the male, if he's an aggressive breeder, I'll put him in the females cage and let him try that. Okay. And that's worked for me too. Okay. Very cool. So, uh, back to your breeding scheme. You said about October, you're cooling down kind of riding the weather downhill towards your drop. Right. And that's, that's what I'll introduce them. You know, I'll, I'll pick my pairings and I'll, uh, I'll, uh, usually, well, it depends on the male. Like I said, if it's a, uh, a shy male or a first year male, I'll put the female in his cage. Um, otherwise I'll just move the, the male into the females cage. If I'm not worried about it. Um, and then I'll see how they react. Um, if, if there's a problem, uh, you know, if she's not happy and stressing that I'll remove her and I'll try again in a couple more weeks. The, and I don't normally, that's what I do first. I'll put them in and see if they're compatible. If they are, uh, I'll leave them in there and I'll, I'll pull the male out probably every. Two weeks during that part of it and try to feed him if he'll eat some of my males do some of my males don't. Uh, and then I'll feed the females at that time as well. Uh, and I just, I just kind of do that. You know, every two, three weeks, I'll pull the male out, give him a little break. If I'm doing, uh, multiple females with a male, um, I'll, you know, give him a two, three day break and then I'll put him in with another female. And, you know, I've done that before. Okay. You ever tried putting two girls with one male in the same cage or is that just like blasphemy when it comes to conjure? I mean, I don't know. I see a lot of potential problems with that one, but, uh, I imagine I just didn't know. I've never heard of that. I've never heard of that. I'm trying to, I'm trying to get Bill Stiegel to like send me a very important email tomorrow is what I'm trying to get. So, if I can get there, I'm going to be a happy man. But I've been trying to keep composure, but it's done. Anyway, um, what, what it helps the reproduction. What, uh, what size should your females be, um, before you kind of take him into. I know you touched on a little bit about the 600 grand females as you're ready to go. But what age do you kind of look at them to be like, now you're ready. Time to go. Here you go. Minimum of four years for me. Um, okay. I think that three is just, I mean, I've heard of three year old's emails going, um, but it's just not something I would do. I just, I like them older and I think you'll get a better clutch from an older female. Okay. That, that makes some sense. And that's the same way with carpets. I'd rather wait a year than push a female. Yeah. So, something that happens or has been known to happen in carpets. And I'm, we're a little curious if it happens in the. The chondros is a dual paternity. Can you have one clutch with two dads, or is it really hard to tell because they all come out freaking yellow or red. Um, I think there are instances where you could actually be for certain, which male it would be. I don't. Um, I can't think of offhand right now. That is that situation, but I know that there's always a question when there's two males on which one was the dad and everybody's guest. There hasn't been a whole lot of for sure it was this one. And there's always that question right. I'm personally, I hate that strategy, just because you don't know where, you know, what the dad was. I love my ninjas and I don't want to screw those up. So, yeah, I mean, I imagine playing like hopping around boys in the chondros were very, very important is kind of a no no. So, yeah, I'd imagine that's pretty bad. It was done. That was done. I mean, they did multiple males. I know. Jean Bissette did it. And I think some other early breeders did it as well. But I just, I personally just, I don't like it. Yeah, I like knowing who it was. Yeah, and it, you know what I'm pretty much the same way I'd prefer to be able to tell you exactly who came from where and what. So, you know, I think the shed light on that stuff. Now, you did say that, now do you take your car, do you take your chondros off feed or do you wait for them to go off on themselves and when do they kind of do that. Yeah, I wait for, wait for them to go off feed the males. They're, they're, they're males. I, they're tough to, to figure out as far as when they're going to eat when they're not. There's never go off feed. And others said they always go off feed, you know, six months, you know, or as long as you're putting on females that go off feed. So, if a male goes off feed for six months, I'm not worried about it. Females, I've really, when, when they ovulate and they're gravid, mine go off feed. I don't know if anybody else has ever fed while, while they're gravid. I'm sure there's exceptions, you know, there's always a little curve ball at you. Seems like there's always an exception to the rule, but for the most part, once my kind does ovulate, they're done eating. Okay, so they just shut themselves down. Yeah, I don't, I don't, yeah, I'll feed them as long as they'll take food. Yeah, do you notice if once the female is ovulated, do you see any kind of, any kind of like this, you ground yourself, do you see anything like that? Or do they typically stay up on the perch? Yeah, mine typically stay on the perch. They're, they're very uncomfortable during that follicle development during that ovulation stage. And so they move around the perch a lot. I've never had one ground themselves. I've seen them crawl around on the ground at night, but never, never seen them stay there. They always go back to the perch. Okay. So, what? I'm going to jump in here. Go ahead. Go ahead. I'm just bringing these up because we were talking about this last week, but not on the show, but off the show. As far as like, if you have a female that is hormonal blue, right? And let's say that she turns blue outside of the quote unquote breeding season. Do you think that that typically would be a clue to maybe put a male in there? Yeah, I do. I've never had that happen. I've seen that in other people's condos. Yeah, I think that's a, that's a good sign that she's, she could be developed with follicles. That's, that's my two cents on it. Right. What about as far as like, I don't know if you said this when you were, you're hitting on this in the. As far as introducing a male, do you think that that has anything to do with the female development follicles? Does that stimulate that growth? Yeah, I do. I think that, I think that that does have something to do with it. I, I usually, I know some people wait till they see the female, you know, developing follicles before they put them in. I know some people have a ton of grams and if you're by that, I wish I could afford us on a gram, but you know what? I'm just not, you know, I want things to happen. I don't want to have to sit there and take a female out and see how big the follicles are. She's ready or not. I'm not there yet. So I just kind of let things happen when they, when they do. So I, I don't, I don't know. I really do think that the male has something to do with it. I think it triggers something. Right. They start breeding. But then again, you know, cooling down may too. There's a lot, a lot we don't know. At least I think we don't. Still got a little more things to figure out. Yeah, I would think, I would think that there's multiple triggers and getting a female and male to. Yeah, I would think so. You know, it's not just one, one thing. And I think maybe it might even be individual animals may, you know, prefer this over that. Really a cookie cutter type of thing so much. Do you have any thoughts on light cycles or feeding cycles? Light cycles, I quit using the lights. I had in my sharp horn cages, I had a little fluorescent light fixtures in there. And they generated a lot of heat and kind of threw off the heat gradient in there. So I quit using those probably three years ago. I have one window in my office where I keep my animals. And I just use that, you know, the ambient light from outside. That's the only light that they get. I use the lights inside the cages for cleaning when I do cleaning. It helps me see better in there. That's the only time I use the lights in there. So they, you know, they get what, what's happening outside is what they get. As far as feeding schedules, I don't, I don't keep feeding records anymore. I quit doing that. It was time consuming. And I feel like I know my animals, you know, well enough now that I don't have to do that. I feed, I'll feed sporadically. Sometimes I'll feed every, I don't know, maybe a male. I may feed him every three to four weeks, a small meal. And then I'll do that for a month or two. And then maybe change it up. I'll give him three small meals right in a row, you know, just, just to change things up. There's probably no rhyme or reason to it. But I like keeping things, you know, a little different form. Right, sense. Yeah. So with the, with clutches, I know we're, I know the big thing is a lot of people put a lot of stock on red babies. And obviously people really want red dominant animals. How many clutches is required before you consider a chondro to throw red dominant animals or be a red dominant animal? Yeah, that's a, that's a very long debated subject over on the NVR. Yes. That's why we love it. I had, yeah, I had to one, I had a male why meaner. It was just an outstanding why meaner. It was really, I really love that animal. I got him from my buddy, Andrew Ayman, who lives here in town with me and we paired it up with a maruki female one year. And she had the year before she had all yellow babies. We pair it up with a white meaner and she had all red babies. In this case, I wanted to try the male again with an animal that had yellow background. In other words, from the yellow neo to see if he would actually prove out to be red dominant. If he had, depending on the clutch size, I think that's important to you. I think if you have under eight eggs, that's probably, you probably need at least three clutches to be for sure. But this is just, this is just my opinion. I really have, this is a subject that's probably deeper than I know anything about. But it, to me, I'd say three, if you have three small clutches of eggs and they're all red all three times, I'd say you're pretty confident. If you have large clutch and you have two, two clutches that are large, I'd say, yeah, you probably get it a bit, but it's a bit dominant. Does that make any sense? That's just my, that's just my two cents. You know, like, I could be totally off on that. Genex are definitely not my strong point. And there's a lot, a lot of speculation on the red dominant stuff anyway. So, that's just my, that's what I think. I think that if you have three small clutches and they're all red, I think you get a pretty good chance of that. Right. I could be wrong. I could be wrong. I don't know. I can't, I can't put a ton of stock into the whole, like, better animals come from red babies or something like that. I don't know. Well, you know, you know what that came from, don't you? That was. Yeah. No. Yeah. Okay. He's really started breeding for the room. Maroon, Maroon Kondra, the red Kondra babies and a lot of the designers, the better looking animals were coming from the red Neo's and there's just more potential, I guess, is a better way to say it from the red Neo. There are yellow ones. So that's why the red one is horrible. When you're talking designers in particular, I still can't, I can't wrap my head around it how you guys can pick out. Maybe you guys are just guessing and it looks like you're picking out animals that are going to be winners. But like, I see these crazy looking designer animals when they grow up. And I mean, do you look for anything in particular in the Neo's to like, that's going to be a killer animal. I mean, say, say, I see a lot of your stuff is high yellow. I mean, do you, do you find those high yellow? So I'm not going to be a good judge of picking out a really good Neo from a certain bloodline. I mean, typically, you're going from where that bloodline is, you know, what that bloodline is known for. And you put it with another well known bloodline and you know something's going to, it's going to come out of it now. I don't have enough experience with those type of animals to know what to look for. I really don't. I mean, and some people do. Some people can really take out a good one. And maybe it is just luck. Maybe they're looking for certain markers, you know, within that, within that Neo and say, Hey, this one doesn't have much of a pattern. It's going to be, you know, really dark. You know, don't have a lot of melanism in it or something like that. I really don't. I haven't dealt enough with blue line stuff and some of the higher end designer stuff to be able to pick those out. Since I work mostly with the yellow stuff and I guess one side, you know, produce enough yellow babies. Maybe I'll have something I look for, you know. Yeah, I don't have enough experience with the blue line stuff to. So, so even if like, let's talk high yellow, when you're the yellow neony, is there something? I mean, is that just the, you wait and see how it progresses, you hold everything back, type of thing. Pretty much at this point. I, once you get a pair, like say, I had a high yellow pair and they had Neos. I raised most of those up and I saw what they did and I know, I know what Neos look like. So when I read that same pair again, I know what to look for. Now, if I mix it up, if I put another male in there or whatever, the results are going to be totally different. I don't really have something to, you know, I can kind of guess, but that same look may turn out different. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, unless you get, I don't know, to me, it's kind of a guessing game still. I mean, you can definitely increase your odds with, with the bloodlines, you know, well-known high yellow bloodline. You can, you know, you're going to get some, some high yellows in there. What degree of yellow you're going to get? You know, I don't know if there's anything in the Neo that's going to tell you that at this point. When you're doing a high yellow stuff, is that typically, I know there's still debate on whether or not, you know, there's two different or three different species of condros. You know, are you seeing high yellow from a specific locality cross with another locality or, you know, sometimes I wonder if like you're getting these crazy designer animals because it's really hybrid vigor type of thing, you know, like, you're getting almost like a car bro type of thing. You know, you see these crazy things because you're, you're crossing, you know, two different species. Do you have any thoughts on that? And all your pretty condros are hybrids. Eric just said it. You're pretty kind of hybrids. All of them. Doesn't mean there's no one you have. At what Eric just said, they're on pure mutts. Yep, I think that'll be in the episode there. Yeah, Trisha. Oh, yeah, they're all hybrids. Um, I guess, I mean, all the designers came from, you know, different locales. You know, different locales at one point. So, um, I sure what I just noticed, um, I guess the Biox, of course, are known for the high yellow stuff. And I guess with enough, you know, if you selectively bred Biox for yellow, I guess, eventually you would get some high yellow Biox. I know that those are some German serongs that are just really high yellow over there. They've got some nice high yellow serongs over there. Of course, the canaries. Really? Yeah, they do. I yellow serongs. Well, that surprises me. Yeah. Um, the lemon tree line, um, I think basically came from, uh, PNG animals and, um, they, they produce some high yellow stuff, obviously. Um, so I guess I don't know if I have a real good answer for that. Um, my yellow stuff comes from a lot of different places in most of the designer stuff. I'm trying to mix some. Uh, coffee, you, the canary stuff. And with it, I've got some, um, OS animals, high yellow OS animals. I've got a beautiful male from Kimberly Berge of Southern Kondros. Um, that was one of her creations. It's just, it's an awesome male, almost probably 90% yellow with blue markings on it. It's just a really cool animal. Um, you know, stuff like that, you know, he's got lemon tree in it. Um, he's got some other stuff in it. You should never know what's going to pop up. Never know. Yeah, I'm a fan of the, I know a lot of people typically go for the high blue, but I personally am a fan of, of the high yellow. Um, yeah. I hear you about that. Yeah. And when I look, I was looking at your, uh, your Facebook page where you had your, I was just, wow, animal after animal. Wow, it's crazy. Some of them, some of them are pretty neat. Yeah. Yeah, like, so if you wanted to say you wanted to get into a high yellow project, really what you want to pay attention to is, is, is really the lineage, I guess. Figure out what the, uh, what lineages throw those high yellows and go back, right? I think, I think that's your best bet. I mean, like I said, you can always, um, you can always start with some really high yellow be ox and hope that you get something, but, um, some of these high yellow bloodlines, you know, you know, we're working on refining them and, and getting the high yellow to come out a little more often. So I think the chances are better when you get an animal from a high yellow bloodline. Very cool. Cool. Sorry. I, I hijacked you. I'm totally fine. It's got to make sure I keep track of where it's supposed to go. Um, so now do you offer a night drop for your juvenile chondros, your young ones that are not getting ready to go to breeding, or do you just, uh, I'll just keep them warm 24 hours a day. No, I, I have a night time drop for everything. I really don't feel like it's, it's a natural thing for them to have a constant temperature for, for any snake. You know, that's not, that's not what happens. So, make sense. Make, make sense. Make sense. And, uh, I guess I'm kind of moving towards that as well, but, uh, I know Eric's been doing that forever, but of course he also monitors the phases of the moon, as well as very things. I mean, hey, we're at a baseball game. He's like, it's a full moon of my Jesus Christ, not again. And he's like, all right. So anyway, you know, that, that's another thing. That's another thing that I do with the, I see, uh, breeding activity, uh, on, on big, strong cold fronts that come in like big storms. Yeah, breeding activity really increases, at least here. That is, that is for reptiles across the board, whether it be snakes, um, frogs. I mean, like if there is a snowstorm or a thunderstorm, my animals are breeding are looking for food are doing whatever the hell they want. So that's, I mean, that that is across the board. Any kind of weather system, they're going nuts. No, no idea why that's what happens. I thought I put that in there for the breeding part. That was just another little saying that I've, you know, if I'm going to pair something up and I don't. And I see a storm coming that I'll throw them in there together. Exactly. Yeah. Yep. Definitely use the weather to your advantage. Yeah. Cool. Uh, have you ever tried maternal incubation with chondros? That's my goal. My goal was to do all the journaling to my chondrope patches. Man, we am high. Definitely. Uh, no, I want to, um, but I've never done it. And, uh, you know, I'm, I'm torn. It's, it's, it's a risk sometimes. And, uh, I don't, I just can't bring myself to do it. I want to, but I guess I got to find the right pair to do it with. I don't know. It's one of those things like we went, we went over to buddy's house and he goes, Oh, this one had eggs. So we had to lock her in the box so she'd take care of her babies. I'm like, that's, that's a horrible mother. It's like, you know, I don't trust her anymore. I wouldn't know if she was like, if she had moved them to like the corner of the little tub that she was in to totally ignore them because I don't know. She's locked in there. She has to take care of them. Yeah. I don't know. I would never trust them. So, yeah. Yeah, you definitely have to lock them in there. Yeah. It sucks. You have to like force them to take care of their babies. Yeah. There's a lot of them in there. Yeah. But he still has to lay the eggs like in the, in the water ball or something like that. Well, no, I mean, if they're in the next box, you're in the, say, three, four days, a week later, they decide to, Hey, I don't want to do this anymore. They just get off the eggs. Yeah. Remember, buddy, you don't see it until die. But he has to shifting like the two buckets in one where the second he realizes their eggs, he just spins the outer bucket so that the door shuts and she can't get out. So she's staying there. I thought, I thought buddy had that set up because he wanted the, he was worried about the female just laying the eggs in the water bowl or laying the eggs in the wrong, like from the perch type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. He told me a few times that it's like three, four weeks later, all of a sudden she's up on the perch and she's like screwed. I don't want to do this anymore. So he locks them in there so they have to do it. So, yeah. No, no, no. I got to tell you that, man, you guys are really missing out. You guys are really missing out because you were maternal. It's nothing cooler than see, and this past year, I didn't do it, you know, but it is a cool experience and my goal is to do it with as many Python species as I can, you know, and I think. I think, I think it's a cool thing to do too. I just can't bring myself to do it. I can't do it. I don't, I can't do it. There's too much at stake here. And, you know, and there's nothing funnier when your friend who does nothing but talk about maternal incubation shows up to use your incubator. I mean, that is what I live for. So, yeah. Okay. We'll have one time. I was going to throw the day till the day I die. We'll never let this go. So anyway. I was going to throw in one more thing about bringing females that you kind of reminded me of right before, like, after their pre-lay should, I will wait one week and then I'll pull the water bowl and the perch out. No. Just, I don't want to take any chances. So give her no options with the go to the net box. You want to be comfortable? You sit on the net box. I had one lay behind the net box last time. So there's no guarantee. But at least they're on the ground. So, yeah, thank you. At least they're not like dropping them from mid air. I mean, waiting to see them hit the ground. Yeah, that could be really bad. Yeah, it could be very bad nerve wrecking. Never good. Never good. Yeah. Wow. I broke down a note as you were talking earlier and you said something about you had some wamina blood floating around in your collection. What do you think about? Wasn't there a debate a few weeks back about the whole wamina locality? What's your thoughts on that? Oh, I did. The locale thing is always, you know, it's always a hot topic. It seems like it's been deep to death. I don't know. I know there's several places that are named for the area where the snakes are taken from, but yet there's no snakes caught in that particular location. So, you know, I think that it is what it is. I mean, you bought a wamina type and you know what that looks like. For the most part. I mean, there's also a little indicators of different locales, but to me it's just a name. I think that everybody knows that it is from a certain area and what name you put to that is, I don't know, it's already been named. So why change it. That's kind of my thought. Yeah, I would agree with you. I mean, when you have a specific look or phenotype to a specific animal, I mean, regardless of whether it's exactly from, I don't know, you could get crazy with localities. I mean, if you look at some of the gray band people, I mean, you know, it's like, I got this on Route 42 at Crossroad, you know, blah, blah, blah. I did. I did. Well, it is. If you can pick up the animal. Yes. Well, you know, you say. I mean, if you're the one that's actually picking up that locality, then I guess you can really say 100% that this is what it is. I mean, that's a lot different. You know, I've been in that group of collectors and I, you know, you know who to trust. You know, you know where the snakes are coming from and they do have certain looks to them with the condos though. I mean, there's just no telling what the, you know, the importers are calling them or where they're coming from. But like I said, you know, if it's always been called the wamina type and looks, has a certain look to it and, you know, I'm good with that. I'm fine. Right. I just got a question in from the chat room says, I guess they're one, they want to know, what do you think about the southern northern thing? Do you see them as separate species? I guess that's what he's asking. Do you see them as? I can't for you. I can see. I think there are two. I'm dying to see the paper when it comes out. If it hadn't already, I haven't got a copy of it if it already is out yet. But I'm dying to read it. I can send it to you. There's, I think it's the barkers that did it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll send it to you. The barkers did split it out. Yeah, but I didn't day on the sush when he working on a more recent one. I think they may have. Yeah, he was. But I think they actually, I don't know the politics behind that. But also I know that they named. The beak as separated out as a species. Huh, okay. Yeah, I'll send it to you. I think, I think Daniel's thing is he's sort of, I have that paper too, but he sort of split it out into, I think it's four or five different groups. He says northern southern. I think there's beak, a roux and Australia. Right, northern, beak, a roux and Australia five. Yeah. I think we got that one. Yeah, I think I can see the northern and southern for sure. I don't think it's a far reach, the beak being a separate species. I mean, it could happen, I guess. Like I said, I haven't seen the papers and seeing what they have to say. Right. Okay. But I do think a mountain range is a limiting factor on the north south stuff. Right. Yeah, that would kind of get in the way of things. Yeah, big mountain, tiny snake. I mean, can't really do anything kind of, you know, separated. Yeah. All right. So, since we were talking about breed and let's get a little more specific about what you go and have going on. I mean, I guess, I mean, I guess your season is kind of like, just year round when they're sort of go. I've noticed that a lot with condos, breeders. Yeah, it's not as, I really, it's not as what. It's not as seasonal as say like I see with other Moralia. Yeah, I know some people do it year round. I'm not a big person for cooling. I think it is kind of important, but I don't know. I'm still weighing that debate with my animals. I tend to put in the fall and early spring, just because my temperatures here, that's, that's is, you know, when I get the cooler weather. And right, right. So during the summer, I just, I kind of just shut them down for the summer. If I'll beef the females up if they laid eggs. The previous year, I'll usually give them a year off and I'll use the summertime to, you know, work on a little bit of weight gain. But I don't know. I, I don't know that that's an issue as far as for me anyway, breeding year round. I'll just do it kind of in the fall and early spring. Okay. At least here in Texas. So I gotcha. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's so important that listeners should know that. I mean, when we have all these different guests on from all different sports in the US. I mean, it's not really matters what's going on in your area. And, you know, what works for not like in Texas is not going to go ahead. I'd like to know if there's anybody in Florida that breeds them year round. That's what I'd like to know. Yeah. I guess that would be, would that be the place that you'd have to do it? It would be placed like Florida and the Southern Belts or something like that. I mean, I doubt we'd probably. I doubt we could get it going up here year round. Killing. Killing. Well, they did it. Did in Greg Stevens breed year round. Well, I, I don't know. I'm pretty sure he did. But then I'm not sure he's up here. All right. Well, did he have a climate controlled room or how do you do it? Yeah. Don't we all have climate controlled groups? I don't know. No. I've even heard of people putting a window unit in there and AC and just dropping the tip of the chair like that. Man, they're room. Yeah. He does it year round. Buddy does it year round. Didn't he just post a picture of a conjure's breeding. I don't know. I've seen them. I would have said, I guess. I don't know. I haven't seen them. So I'll believe you. I promise. So. I mean, I've still heard stories of people that don't cycle their animals. They don't have any temperature drops and they still go. So, you know, if that's the case, then, you know, you can. You're good. I mean, when you look at, I mean, if you look where condors are from, basically, they're not really. They're not as seasonal as a, you know. Animals from Australia. That's why I'm saying that. And I noticed that with with IJ carpets as well. I mean, to me, they seem to be very similar to, to conjure keeping because they don't really need that drop down. They're the first ones to breed out of the carpet. You know, it's like a little draft comes through and they're like, whoop, you know, time to go. But. So, let's talk about your, your pairings that you have going on. One that stood out to me was the, I'm assuming this is lemon tree line lemon B and the black burl. Can you tell us the history of that pairing and what you hope to produce with that? Well, I guess I'll start out by saying that my last year bringing Tim's for like total failure. I couldn't believe it. I mean, this first year I've struck out. I was so pissed. Wow, I didn't go. I had four pairings going, you know, I have four pairings going hoping to get one or two. And the one year I did that, I had four pairings and then this year I tried it and got zero. So that's condros for you. The little B. Ach. She came from a friend of mine here down the road, Brooke Bernstein. And he produced her from a called Lemon Hayes 2008 pure lemon tree produced by the stewards at the barn. And then he crossed her, that male with a red neo Bock. And so it's a half Bock half tree. That's the male I got. And I actually co-own that animal with Barry Manson. So that's our little project. The black pearl gold female, the black pearl female that I paired him up with comes from Rob Warl, a line that he created. Basically, they're zoo bred animals. They're from, I think, Cincinnati Zoo. I think, yeah, Cincinnati Zoo. They were just imports, not exactly sure where they came from. At that time, probably most of those animals in the early 80s were coming out of PNG. I guess it's the east side. I guess that's not on that. Anyway, so that came from him and it's pretty much known for yellow and black. It has a lot of yellow and a lot of black in it. So I thought that would be a good pair. And that's really what I want. I want it either a high animal is black on it or a high animal blue on it. That's really what I'm going for. How difficult do you think that's going to be to reproduce? I think I'll get there. Right now, it's kind of hit or miss. I had some real good luck with the, I haven't named it yet, but it's one on my Facebook page. It's a very high yellow animal with just a little bit of black and green speckling on it. It came from a black, the black-headed generic female that I used to own and a black pearl pale. So there's definitely some kind of combination going on with those two that worked out really well. Unfortunately, the female got a high after she laid eggs and I lost her. So I've got a few babies from her and actually Bill Stiegel has a couple from that clutch. Cool. So yeah, I don't know right now, like I said earlier, everything from what I'm trying to produce is pretty much a crapshoot. Hopefully I'll get some of these lines refined and be a little more predictable down the road. What about the just the lemon tree stuff in general? I've heard that that has had some issues with it with, I guess, inbreeding maybe. Is that kind of worked out and out from such? I'm working on a history of some of the high yellow lines and I'm doing the lemon trees first. And so I'm having to track down a bunch of information, which is kind of hard to do. Especially a lot of the people that used to be in a hobby have gotten out and you can't find records. They've either lost them or the computer crash and they don't have it, whatever reason, but some of that information is getting lost. And so I'm trying to go back and get some of this before it's gone forever. They knew how to yell at the lemon trees with what I'm doing first. And it's basically coming from two, three animals that originated most likely from Papua New Guinea originally. And they were two, supposedly two related animals and one that wasn't. So one male and a female were related and the other female wasn't. From that, some really nice babies were produced and they went all across the country to different people. Most of them died. A few, Greg Schrader had a couple, a brother and a sister that he bred and had a few babies from that. But yeah, for the most part, that line was problematic in a lot of different ways. There was a lot of unknowns at that time. I know that there was a lot of popping to determine sex and a lot of kinking resulted. And so a lot of those females really had complications when they went to lay eggs. So it was kind of known for its low fertility and other issues. I mean, there was a lot of husbandry issues, I think, with the line. But there's a few out there that made it. I believe if my research is correct, I think there's only four pure lemon trees left. After they're gone, the line's dead. I mean, other than they out crosses, the pure line is dead. So, yeah, there was a good amount of inbreeding and some of that. But it's a great line. I mean, especially, it was really instrumental in some of the really high end dream line stuff. It really, really added a shock value to some of those animals. Right. Now, when you talk about black pearl, is that a line or is that a specific animal? It's Rob Rowell's line. Rob Rowell's probably one of the people that was breeding these things really early on. You know, with the trooper and those guys, Eugene, he started doing them pretty well. He was actually credited for determining the 40 days prior to egg deposition on ovulation after ovulation. He was credited to finding that little key and the breeding process. But he mainly, yeah, he did several lines. But this one is one he called black pearls. And I don't know where he got that name from, but they're basically known for putting it out animals. The main thing that he would claim that they would do was they would be changing color, the green, and then they would slowly lose the green and go to high yellow with a little bit of black on them. There were a couple of animals that did that. It was kind of an inconsistent happening, but it did happen to a few of them. I think there was one that was almost 99% yellow. It was really a phenomenal animal, but a lot of them were green. Some of them were green. They had black on them. Some of them were yellow, green and black. I mean, they were all over the board. But there was a few that he had that did what he said. I mean, they turned green first and then they slowly lost the green and some of the green and had a lot of yellow come back into there. So, yeah, I mean, it's basically a line. It's one that you kind of produce. Cool. I like that I'm learning about all this high yellow stuff tonight. What about your dream line pairing? What's the same questions? What's going on with that? What do you hope? So, the dream line male was, I borrowed that from my friend, Andrew, who lives here in town. One of his got that one from, I think he got that one from Brett and Azimuth before he passed away, I believe. But the dream line, that started coming from Jeff Hudson. I think he's the one that was really credited for having that animal first. I think it actually came from, I think they tracked it down. It was Houston Zoo, from Houston Zoo Lines. I think they actually had the studbook numbers for the male and the females, I believe, were confiscated animals that were from the Dallas Zoo. I think that's what I understand. Anyway, dream was an animal that was very different. It was kind of almost, it looked like it was faded, kind of looked like a ghost. But Jeff bred her, I think he did her, he had four times, I believe, produced animals like matrix. And I think there was Rick Culver's dream baby, Greg Schrader's Sickle. Just some big names out there, Harvest, Daydream, Marduk, What Dream. There's a punch, I mean, that pairing that he did with different animals, of course. So, I think the third clutch was in 2001 and it was with pure, purebred lemon tree. And that's where some of those really nice ones came from. And then I think he did one with Tim Morris male. I don't know much, I think Pacific came from that one. I could be wrong, but I think Pacific. I don't know if these names mean anything to y'all or not, but they're pretty well known. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Condros, Condros in the arena, so to speak. Yeah. Okay, so the dream on, yeah, it's produced some really high in animals and really incredible animals. But that, again, that was, I was putting that male with my, my Ben Evans girl. Melism was, was a factor in that one. And that would, that would have been my first red Neo to red Neo pairing. I've never done that before. That would have been the first one. Wow. Okay. Yeah, I don't know if you hit on this before earlier and said this, but from red to red, can you produce high yellow animals like red babies? Can they turn into becoming more? Oh, look at David Newman. He's, he's going to have some incredible stuff coming up. Oh, yeah, that's, yeah. Yeah, a lot of his, I forget about new babies. Yep. This other people doing it too. I personally, if I had it start over, I would have started over with high yellow animals from yellow neonates. I don't, I've been mixing it up. I tried to get some of that melanism that comes from some of the blue lines. I was trying to get that into that bloodline. And so some of my, you know, my pairings involved some maroon Neo's from blue lines. And so, like I said, if I had to do over, I would have stuck to the all yellow stuff. It's just to see, you know, to see if it's different, because there actually isn't, I think there's a difference in a high yellow animal from a yellow neonate as opposed to one from a red neonate. I think the yellows are different. The yellows from a red neonate, at least in my, my experience, they, they're more, they have more orange in them. They tend to be not as bright or vibrant. Compared to the ones that are high yellows that come from yellow neonates. I think it's a, it's a brighter yellow. But that's just, this is my observation from what I've seen my collection and a couple others. Yeah, I, I would think that would make sense. I mean, if it's already yellow. Yeah, yeah. Okay. What other, what other pairings? Oh, go ahead. I doubt it's just a little observation that I noticed and I don't know if there's a whole lot of truth to it. But it was just my little two cents on the yellows, the yellows. Yeah, we have, we have a guest coming on next week. And we're going to be talking about his name is Travis Wyman. I don't know if you've ever heard of him, but he's a geneticist. And one of the, he posts over on the Bush breeders forum. But one of the things that I wanted him to specifically kind of research a little bit is. Condro genetics and just the questions like that. You know what I mean? See, I mean, because he comes from the genetic background. He's educated in this stuff. So you can see, you can hit on any of those kind of questions. Yeah, way above my pay grade. I hear that. Yeah, it'd be interesting to know a little bit more about the way the genetics work in the green trees. Yeah. What other pairings are excited about, whether it be for next season or. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've got to try, I think I got, oh, I think I'm going to try five pairings this year. And hope that one goes. Wow. Let's see. I'm going to do, let's see, what do I, I got, I got some interesting stuff coming up. I don't know. It's hard to say what's going to be my favorite. I did acquire. Another lemon tree animal that was a. A bee ox, cross to a bee ox as well, but it's not. It's actually from one of the last clutch last clutch that Tim to mezi produced and he's the guy that did the lemon tree line. It came from that male that a friend of mine had. And I recently got that from him and we're going to cross it. We're going to do the black pearl female. That will be a different, it'll be the same genetic makeup, but a different male, if that makes sense. Wow. So I'm really looking forward to that because it's actually, this one is, this male is less inbred than the other one. It's from its back in the, in the line. Let's see. My male Sundance, which is my Kimberly Burge male, that one that's 90% yellow and with some blue on it. That one's going to go with, actually, it's going to go with the very first female that will be, that I produced. It's breathable. That'll be an interesting pair. That'll be a milestone for me. So she's finally of age and that'll be, I'm looking forward to that one because of two very high yellow animals. I'm going to do, I'm going to try something different. I've acquired a long term captive of a roux about eight months ago. And I'm going to try to recreate, there was an animal that my friend, Andrew, produced called Lucky 13. And it came from a pairing between this OS male that he had across with a marooki. And the clutch was just outstanding. There was a tremendous amount of high yellow animals came out of that clutch. And so I'm going to, my theory is that the, this a roux female is going to do the same thing. It's just a theory, but we'll see. I'm looking for a good amount of yellow coming out of this one. Let's see. The other lemon tree male that I used last year with a black pearl female I'm going to put with the Ben Evans girl. And that's the one that, that should be a very, very cool clutch. If that happens, it should be some yellow and black in there. She was a yellow. No, he was a yellow neonate and she was a maroon neonate. So the maroonneos in that one could be, could be pretty fantastic. And let's see, that's, that's really, I've got one more. I'm going to put with an older female, but I'm not putting much hope into that one. And it's, it was an old line from Jim Vargan. He used to do a bunch of high yellow and high blue stuff. But I got a older female from a friend of mine and I'm going to try to pair her up with somebody. Not sure who yet, but I don't know, that's about all I got. I mean, it's not anything too spectacular, but hopefully some cool stuff will get rid of it. That's some pretty high end pairings, man, what are you talking about? Yeah, it's nice, yeah. Kind of a high end for me. Yeah, compared to some of the designer stuff, this is, you know, this isn't too much. Yeah, it's a ride home about, but it'll be cool. We'll see. Okay. All right. I had, well, I had two more questions before Owen hits on the closing questions. One, I was curious with, with the, I heard this on GTP keeper radio where they were talking about just condros being at shows and like reptile shows. I see the good in the bed and both sides of it and stressful for the animal. You know, there's always the dreaded mites that you could get, et cetera, et cetera, that kind of thing. But to a certain extent, I mean, especially since you and you and Dave are the guys that are right in the beginners, you know, type of, you know, the questions that they ask, wouldn't it be good to have dedicated condro breeders, et cetera, rather than, you know, your jobber that's there, that's going to tell misinformation. By all means. Yes, I agree. Okay. Hardly. Yeah, those, those guys as David likes to call such peddlers. I don't think they're, they're good. I really don't think that they're real good. I mean, I guess there are some out there that probably know a little bit, but for the most part, I don't think it's a good idea. I think that, you know, if it's the breeders, captive bred breeders were there at those shows to give good information. I think it'd be a much better experience for a lot of these people. And, you know, and even discourage these people. I mean, they get a lot of these impulse buyers that go in and they just buy a kind of a host. I'm always one of these. And, you know, they buy from one of these right jobbers, you know, half the time. They don't know the right way to set them up. And then I end up with the next thing, or, you know, them coming on the MDF going, Hey, you know, my snake style. What do I do? So not to mention that's probably somebody that knows what they're. It's going to say not to mention the fact that it's probably, you know, a freshly imported animal and, you know, it's already stressed to the max. So, you know, it's going to require a little more TLC that probably for new keepers. Most of those guys that are selling some of these animals, you know, they they're there for that show and then they're gone. You can't get ahold of them. I think we'll answer your phone calls or, you know, you don't get the support you would with, you know, right. Captain Ford, we die back. I'll give you another one. Yeah. Yeah, I'm out of them. Yeah. I wonder he calls them flesh petters. You know, I have been thinking about this a lot as far as, you know, the topic in particular. And one of my thoughts is that I've seen some YouTube videos of some pretty well-known people going around. And when they talk about a species that maybe they're not as versed in as say somebody who really is into that species. They tend to put misinformation out there. And even though it's just subtle little things and I don't know, it just it seems like if these people are well-known in the hobby, and I don't think they're doing it on purpose, but I just think that they're talking about something that they may not know 100%. An example would be I saw people talking about scrub pythons. And again, this is a pretty well-known person. And I don't think that it was because they were trying to spread misinformation, but when they were talking about it, clearly they had a helmet hair scrub in their hand and they were calling it a bar neck, you know. And I'm sitting there just scratching my head like, how can you be saying that? And maybe just because I am versed in scrubs that to me that stands out, whereas somebody that's maybe not as versed in scrubs does not. So, I mean, with all the different localities and designers and bloodlines of chondros, you would think that the same could possibly happen. Yeah, definitely good. With chondros, I think that I don't know. I mean, I don't see it happening too much with our group, the ones that I do list. Too much of that at all. So, yeah, somebody else, I can definitely see that happening. Yeah, that's why it's so important to go to people that... I don't know. I preach it all the time that if you're going to go and get an animal, you should go from the people that are most excited about that species. That's what we get around. Exactly. They're going to want what's best for that animal that they're giving you. I mean, they spend a lot of time. I mean, you raise these things up. You've read them, you've cared for them, and I'm not going to just sell this to somebody that's going to not want to take care of it, or not know how to take care of it. I want to make sure they're set up. I want to make sure that they have the right stuff, the right environment before they get this animal. I want to make sure it's going to survive. Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. Okay. I did have one other question before Owen hits on his questions is, I was admiring your photograph, photographing skills as I was flipping through your pictures. I was curious if you had any tips or tricks on how you take such a kill or photograph. I'm a pale in comparison to some of the people that do condo photography. I don't know. I've got a Nikon or an old digital Nikon that I use and I have a pretty decent 105 millimeter of macro lens that I use outside. I like taking outside pictures. I don't do too good with some flash photography. I don't know. I get out there and play around. I really don't know a whole lot of what I'm doing. I take good photos. I take a lot of pictures. I hope you get one good picture. I really think that with a good camera and good lighting, you're going to get a good picture. It's also having a good eye. I guess I'm lucky with some of my pictures. You don't see the 10,000 bad pictures I took. You only see the one decent picture. Right. That is true. That is true. I figure out the more I take, the better chance of having one good one. I think what stood out to me in particular is the attention of the focus that you have on the animals head and eyes and face. I don't know. It just seems that you, I guess that does make a difference. It does. The macro lens that I have on my camera is really a great lens and definitely will give the credit to the lens. It's not about me. I know the feeling. No doubt. Okay. Cool. All right, Ellen. Why don't you hit on the closing? All right. Matt, why don't you tell us if you could have any reptile in the world with no exceptions, whether it be price or legality? What would it be and why? Oh, goodness. I know, right? So many choices. I guess, well, when I got married, I made one promise to my wife. I said, I'm not going to keep any hot snakes anymore. She didn't want me to. I said, okay, that's fine. I only broke that promise once, but that's a whole different story. I think I would go through something hot. I love eyelash vipers. But I think ultimately, I would go with Hotelus Levitas Levitas, the model rock rattlesnake. I think that's what I would go with. Wow. That is like the most specific we've ever gotten with like a what I would get with everything. I mean, try it. Wow. I just love those animals. I think they're cool. The venomous have come up a few times. It's almost like people want to get into that just because and but it's like no restrictions means I can get venomous sweet. Exactly. All right. Some people actually said King Cobra before. So that was so you're not that far off. You're not, you're not the craziest. I think we have three Komodo dragons too. Anyway. Yeah, I just love those guys. Awesome. I had to look them up. Picture of them isn't coming to my head. So I have to look them up now. They're pretty neat. What I like about them is at least here in Texas, they take on different colors depending on the rock formations in that area they come from. So you can have some kind of kind of a buckskin color, you know, in one formation and, you know, 20, 30 miles away that they come pink because the rock is more reddish and pink in this area. I mean, they're just really variable, really cool. I like that is awesome. That is awesome. All right. So next one is if you can go herping anywhere in the world, where would it be and what would you hope to see. Let's see. It's going to be a jungle somewhere. I guess, probably pop on the guinea. I would just love to see. I'd love to see green tree python in the wild. I think that would be pretty cool. Plus, there's a whole bunch of other badass stuff over there. Yeah. Hey, you might stumble on a Poland or something. Awesome. Yeah, that is cool. I think that's where I'll be. That makes sense. That makes sense. All right. Awesome. So that's all I got. But Eric, did you have anything else you wanted to add? That is a no. I don't know what it is. Sorry, Mike. I was like, you know, Eric's like, no, it hangs up real quick. No, I would just say thanks for coming on, man. I appreciate you know, all the info that yeah, I'm spending some time with us and chatting up some cars. Yeah. Awesome. I love the animals. I don't claim to know everything. I'm always learning something new. So it's been fun. Definitely. Very cool. We'll have to have it back again. And thanks. Sure. Thanks for putting together that list and all the topics that you hit on. I'm assuming that you're going to keep going with it because you guys seem to be adding more and more. Yeah, we're not. We're not every time we check it out. We're done. We've still got some some other things coming along. I think that as soon as we get a chance, we're going to, there's a couple more sections that we're going to add to it. I'm trying to remember what we tried to remember what we've done and what we haven't done. But I think that we got one on cleaning coming up. I think common health issues, common behavior issues. I think we got a glossary, not a glossary, but a recommend reading page and a links page that we're going to put into all that with the. I think all that will be real helpful. Very cool. Cool. Very cool. Yeah. I'll leave our eyes for real for that stuff. One more thing. If somebody wants to reach out to you to see. When how can they do that? Oh, yeah, I think the Facebook probably the easiest. It's under Matthew Morris is what my pages and or over on the MDF. If they're a member over there, they can like PM me and either place be the best thing to do. Okay. Cool. All right, man. I got appreciate you coming on and hanging out with us. Oh, no problem. Anytime. Anytime. All right. Well, you have a good night. All right. All right. Take care, guys. Bye. See you. Cool. Always love the Condro shows. I know the fans are always loving the Condro shows as well. So. Yeah, we have to rope in. We have to rope in all the animals over in the chat room. I mean, again, it was one of those nights where I had to like throw my phone across the room because of the conversation. Going on in the chat room. Yeah, that's pretty wild. Bring those suckers into heel. I mean, unfortunately, the ring leader is a bill and I place all the blame on him. So, but other than that, it was a fun show. I always like the conscious of tells me how I fail in comparison. So, you know, I'm keeping my life so far. Good. So, yeah. Well, I don't know. I mean, you know, we've had this talk before. Sometimes I think that, well, I think the Condro keeper in particular somebody that's very particular about certain things and meticulous. Yeah. Yeah. Very meticulous with very meticulous when it comes to, you know, record keeping and, you know, cleaning and feeding and all that kind of stuff. So, yep. I scarfed people are more, you know, you still got to show me how to do batch feedings on the rep to scan because, um, yeah, I've been lazy. So, uh, yeah, that my love. What are you doing? And you're letting me down. Honestly, I mean, that's not the middle. So, uh, anyway. Yeah. Um, let's see. Let me get my, let me get my quick to this together. What happened? Quick to the schedule. We need to know what's going on next week. Well, next week, like I said, we have a Travis Wyman joining us to talk genetics. Sweet. Which should be cool. So if you have any questions as far as genetics go, make sure to let us know. He's been on a few podcasts and stalk mainly. Um, well, I guess he's talked Python genetics in general, but most of the people, most of the ones that have had him on have all been. Uh, ball Python. Uh, you know, uh, or, uh, I can't think of the word. Damn it. I want to loss for words lately. The heck is going on. Is it a type of, is it a, is it an animal fish vegetable? No, just say it. It's ball Python oriented shows. So, you know, when they're talking genetics, it seems to really hit on those specific type of, of things. Uh, you know, I wanted to talk to him maybe about more outside the box type of genetics. I wanted to specifically talk maybe about more along the lines of just the difference between what I call. Harper genetics, as opposed to like real actual science genetics. Yeah. Yeah. Actually going on, you know. So, yeah, it should be a very interesting show for sure. And he's, he's an awesome guy. So, look forward to that. Then the week after that. Oh, and you're on your own. I don't know what the heck you're doing. Oh, son of a bitch. Oh, well, I barely know what I'm doing. But actually, I think we're going to do. Uh, we're actually going to do some people best for this one. It's a product review show. And we're going to have me, Matt Minitole and Zach by as on. And we're going to go through because three of us, we each keep our snakes in very different things and use very different kind of products. Uh, I know Zach uses some plastic tubs, plastic bins. You can go through how to set that up, whether they're good buys or good not. I have cages and I'm Matt uses racks. We're going to go through the pros and cons that keeps me. Of using all these different kinds of things, different computer systems, stuff like that. Uh, and then we're just going to keep bullshitting until Eric comes back. So. Very good. Very good. Um, that should be cool for sure. We'll see. So what do you have in a product review round table? All right. Pretty much is almost like, you know, what do you use to keep your condros in? Are you use this? Well, why is it good? What does it do? How much does it cost? And is it worth it? How about you? What do you do? Well, I get my condros in here. So yeah, doing the three of us, I think we have some very different things. I know those two have pretty much the same kind of setups when it comes to their condos. But Zach has those tip bins and I just throw them in cages. Um, so yeah, we'll see how it goes. It might be fun. Or it might be horribly boring and I'll wish I'll knit. You never left me again. So, yeah, I'll ban you from vacation time. It's yeah, I'll be listening from sunny Florida and I'm sure it'll be entertaining as it always is. So I'd like to play recordings of your voice so you can't listen to it because you can't listen to yourself. So if I play recordings of yourself, listen, so yeah. Yeah. So, just so everybody knows it's official, we will be at Tinley Park. Holy crap. I was hoping that we would be able to head down to the N.A.R.B.C. show in Texas. However, work has the link. Yeah, it's like, yeah, there's several reasons that we can't make it. But we'll try for next year. But if you and I go to Australia in 16, that ain't going to happen again. So, maybe we'll get down there. I got an Australia story for you. So, I get a text message today and comes in from my wife. It comes in from my wife and basically she sends me this thing about a trip to Australia. I think it was like a thousand bucks for eight days. Holy crap. She got it on Groupon. And she's like, yeah, you know, so I don't know. It's going to happen in 2016. I'm right. It's going to happen. A thousand dollars. Thank you Groupon. Yeah, right. We have to make sure it's not like Sydney, because we don't want to go to Sydney. We want a plane to drop us off in the middle of the bush. We want to make it back. I mean like, if we're an imminent danger. Oh yeah, yeah. I want us to have to worry about where we might sleep tonight for fear of death. All right. So, that's the only way we're going to do this. Yeah. Yeah, that's how I want to do it. Go to the water. No, that kind of stuff. Eric, just got it. No, no. I'm just getting by a salty crocodile, Adam. And it's not even, didn't even like satisfy his hunger. I mean, Christ. It's just an appetizer. I'm an appetizer. I mean, come on. I'm similar. I'm similar to a mozzarella stick. Anyplace I can go with that, but I'm just going to leave it be. Yeah, just let it go. Let it go. Move forward. Right. Oh my God. All right. So we will be. Yes, we will be. Go at Tinley Park on October 10th and 11th. So, stop on by me and I will be set up in carpet row. I know that we'll be there with Zach and Matt. Matt will be set up with his awesome animals. I think Zach might be bringing a few. I'm not sure. Yeah. But, but me and I will be there. Look for the Morello Python radio banner. Come over and say hello. We always love putting names with faces and getting to know the people that support the show. So, I look forward to meeting you all. We haven't thrown this out there in a while, so I'm going to throw it out. I'm probably going to try to throw this out as much as possible. But we've got to give some love to us arc. If you're not a member, go over to us arc.org and sign up. Get on their mailing list so that if anything comes down the pike, you know, exactly what's going on. You're prepared. Yeah. Yeah. I hate to break it to anybody who buys from me when I ship you animals. There is a dollar donation to us arc. I don't tell you about. So sorry. But you're shipping quoted a dollar more. So don't care. Anyway, that's just one of the things I think everybody could do the buck. So, but yeah, go sign up. Give the love to us arc. Give a donation by a T shirt. They'll be at an RBC too. You can always do a donation there as well. And every once in a while, they set up a booth at any of the shows to buy T shirts or something like that. But yeah. Yeah. And one of our, I was going to throw this out there. I'm pretty sure they're doing this. I probably have to get with the guys over at Ship Your Reptiles just to clarify. But what they do is they set up Ship Your Reptiles there and say that you're at Tinley Park and you want to pick up a wonderful carpet python from me knowing and then you got your eyes set on a Borneo and you don't know how to get it home because you took a plane there. Well, fortunately, those guys have a booth set up where you can go over and they'll ship your animal out to you and you can jump on the plane and your animal will arrive safe and sound. Yeah. The next, I guess, Monday? I don't know. Yeah. I mean, are you telling me that Ship Your Reptiles will in fact ship your reptile? Yes, from Tinley Park. Oh, my God. It's so much like it's right there in this statement. Yeah. But that is awesome that you can do that because I mean, otherwise you would have had to pack your own box, which I've seen in people packed in a box at the show. And then they had to hang around till Monday, drop off the box at a FedEx facility and then catch their plane and then receive the box on Tuesday. You now can go do what you got to do, fly home and ship your reptiles will take it from there and they will be the ones to drop off the package, they'll send it to where it needs to go and it'll arrive to you after you've gotten home. So, yeah, that's a win-win man. It is. It is. Yeah, no doubt. We just drive like crazy people so we don't need to worry about flying. Yeah, it's only about 15 hours or something like that. I don't want to do it again, but all right. It's great, though. It is. It is. It is. So, yeah, Maralee Python radio.com. Check that out. That's our website. All the info that you would need about the show or about Maralee in general. It's all right there for you to check out. If you have a question or a comment, you want to send us an email, feel free to drop us a line at info@maralee python radio.com, guest, topic, et cetera, et cetera. You know, and give our Facebook page a like. I didn't tell you, but I bought some ads on Facebook for Maralee Python radio. Is that why you've been crapping up all over the place? Like, how do I tell it that I'm a co-host and I know it's going on. So, like the page. I do like the page. Ouch. Like the baby general go. All right. Well, all right then. We can make this all stop if you like the page. Yeah, I was curious to see what kind of results we would get from from that. So, yeah, Maralee Python radio Facebook page. That's kind of where we post the news and upcoming events and try to share something. It's a day that I see that relates to the world of Maralee Python's in general. So check that out. You've also on Twitter at Maralee Python. The show, you can go get it over on iTunes, download it for free. You know, I think if you're using Android or whatever, whatever your podcast app of choices, you can, you can get it from from there as well. Maralee Python's radio and it'll pop up there for you. I was just going to say something else and now I'm forgetting. Carpetfest. The Northwest Carpetfest has moved to October 3. And I think they rearranged some dates so they could have both Nick mutton and Casey Lazzack there, which is pretty good. Those guys are pretty big players in the Maralee world, so be cool to hang out with those guys. Doug Taylor is hosting it and it's right in the Seattle area. So they're doing a USR auction. So if you're interested in donating for that, getting caught in contact with Amy, you can go over to the Northwest Carpetfest page and you can check out what they have going on. So don't forget, it's October 3rd, which kind of sucks. Now, I can't go. I don't know about you. But that's the lead before Tinley and I can't ask any kids off in a row. You're right. Let me go look at my giant bag of gold that I keep hidden from you people. Oh, nope. It's his baron. Yeah. Well, if I, like, were off skills every week, you would be all right. I did not buy them every week. I bought one girl and therefore I am now spent. Yeah. Speaking of which, why have we had David on the show? I don't know. No, I do that. I know. I've been oogling over his rough skills and I have one now. So, yeah, maybe we'll get him on and get him. He's a green tree python guy too. So, yeah. Well, he's, he's the guy that won, won the contest last year for the picture in the calendar. Oh, oh, David. Yeah, I remember that. So, yeah, I know. Speaking of which, that's going to be coming up soon and the calendar competition. Oh, my God, it already is. It's like the calendar competitions Christ, the calendar competitions coming up. The anniversary show is coming up before we know what we do in the damn holiday show. Holy crap. And then we'll have two weeks off. Yeah, these past couple of weeks have been so stressful for me. I don't know why, but work's been crazy. You know, 70 hours a week at work doing this show. Taking care of things. So much fun. Yeah. We just, why I love it when people were like, you know, somebody was like, "Admond, add me to the pick of the week. Add me, add me, add me." I'm like, "Shut your damn mouth. I will get to you when I get to you." It's like, we don't do this for a living. I'm not here at your book in Paul. Anyway, I digress. Oh, that's what I was going to mention. Go for it. That's what I was going to mention. Our Facebook group page is Mariah Pickett of the Week. I think along with Mariah Pickett of the Week, I'm a big fan of Mariah, et cetera. I would like to see more, et cetera on there. So if you're into other things and you want to show off to the Mariah family, go over to Mariah, et cetera, and post up what you got going on. Yeah. And I want to throw a shout out for the other group page that recently crapped up is the Mariah breeders classified page. Yep. Basically, what you're looking at there is if they produce the animal, they're selling the animal, that's pretty much it in a nutshell. So... Mm-hmm. To post on it, you had to have made the baby. I mean, to post on that form, so on my class, if I do, you had to have produced the animal and are currently taking care of that animal. And this way, it's coming from you, and that's to cut back on some of the people who buy clutches and wholesale who don't really know what they're talking about or various other things. It's just basically a way to do that. And it's a good group. I mean, I've already had a few sales come from it just because people go there to look straight from the breeder. So I like it. Right. Let me keep working on it. Yeah. Absolutely. So, yeah, that's what I got as far as that goes. As far as myself, personally, I'm E.E. Morelia. You can follow me on my Facebook page at E.B. Morelia. Check me out on Twitter. When I do have Instagram, I haven't been posting on there much lately, but you can check that out. My website is ebmorelia.com. If you want to get in contact with me about anything that I have available or questions or anything of the such, you can contact me at eric@ebmorelia.com. And that's all I got. Cool. What I got is you can go to rogue-reptiles.com. We have some parts of it are being updated, but the main part, which is the babies for sale, that is all current. Also, you can go and look up rogue-reptiles@facebook.com to get what is happening to rogue as well as the for sale ads over there. Also, if you have a baby that you purchased from us and wish to submit the picture to be put in the sold baby's album, please just email me. Through the website or PM me on Facebook with the picture as well as when you bought it and if the animal has a name, shoot that to me too, and I'd be happy to throw it up for you. Always love seeing the guys that have left the nest. As far as shows go, the only show we have coming up for rogue is, first one will be Tinley Park Chicago in October, and then the weekend after Tinley Park will be having the Hamburg reptile show. So, depending on how well I do at Tinley, will be how many animals I will bring to Hamburg. So, if you're expecting to get an animal from me at Hamburg, I would suggest trying to secure it before I go to Tinley. So, again, all through the website, if you want to see updated pics of animals, let us know. I should be attending the Havender Grace reptile show this weekend, as well as the White Plains reptile show, I think it's sometime in September. If you want us to deliver a baby to the show, one of the shows that can be arranged for you charge, just let us know, and we'll work stuff out. Other than that, I will say thank you all for listening, and we hope to catch you guys next week for some more Morelia Python radio. Good night. Hey, Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL, or as a reptile breeder in the owner of Pro Dzox. I've been herping since I was a boy, and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptile. I also love to encourage the joy of breathing and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Markle and I create the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site, bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of the latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news, photos and links, so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. The reptile report offers powerful brandy and marketing exposure for your business, and the best part is it's free. If you're a buyer or breeder, you've got to check out the reptile report marketplace. The marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling destination, full of features to help put you in touch with the perfect deal. Exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system, searched by sex, weight, morph, or other keywords, and use our Buy Now option to buy that animal right now. Go to marketplace.thereptilereport.com and register your account for free. Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptiles account to earn free tokens with each shipping label you book. Use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum mat. It also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page. Buy and are selling, use ShipYourEptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. ShipYourEptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animals successfully. Use ShipYourEptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates and materials needed to ship the reptile successfully live customer support in our live, on time, arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptilereport.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace, find that perfect pet or breeder, then visit shipreptiles.com to ship that animal anywhere in the United States. We are your one stop shop for everything reptile related. [silence] [silence] [silence] [silence] [silence] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music]