Morelia Python Radio

A different perspective with Jamie Karns from Razor Sharp Reptiles

In this episode we are joined by our good friend Jamie Karns from Razor Sharp Reptiles. Jamie is mostly known for his amazing collectiontion of geckos but what most people don't know he has a nice collection of carpets and other pythons. We are going to get Jamie's perspective on some of the current sales trends that are happeing in the morelia world and see how it panned out for the gecko world.

Duration:: 2h 35m
Broadcast on:: 17 Jun 2015
Audio Format:: other

Hey Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL or as a reptile breeder in the owner of Proxox I've been herping since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advance in the industry and Educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breathing and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist Which is why my partner Robin and Marklin and I create the reptile report. The reptile report is our online News aggregation site bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world Visit the reptile report calm every day to stay on top of latest reptile news and information We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news photos and links so we can feature Outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you the reptile report offers powerful brandy and marketing exposure for your business And the best part is it's free you're a buyer or breeder You got to check out the reptile report marketplace the marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling Destination full of features to help put you in touch with a perfect deal find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system Search by sex wait more for other keywords and use our buyer now option to buy that animal right now Go to market place dot the reptile report calm and register your account for free Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptiles account to earn free tokens with each shipping label You book use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies Maximize your exposure with a platinum mad and also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page Byron are selling you ship your reptiles calm take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates ship your reptiles Dot com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully use ship your reptiles Dot com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates and materials needed to ship the reptile Successfully live customer support and our live on time arrival insurance program. We got you covered Visit the reptile report dot com to learn or share about the animals click on the link to the marketplace find that perfect pet or breeder Then visit ship reptiles dot com to ship that animal anywhere in the United States We are your one stop shop for everything reptile related You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You Welcome to Moralia Python Radio with your host, Eric Berg, and Tony McIntyre. What's up? What's up? What's up? Welcome to another episode of Moralia Python Radio. We are going to get a Moralia perspective from a different viewpoint tonight. We're going to have Jamie Kearns on tonight from Razor Sarp retiles. He's probably most well-known for his geckos. I breathe a lot of different kind of geckos, but a lot of people don't know what else he works with. So we're going to be hitting on some of that stuff. Jamie has some carpet stuff, olive pythons, Owen, you'll be happy to know that he works with various types of boas, including Candoya. I hate Matt Minutola, all right, I'm going to throw that out right now. I have the boa questions on the outline, which was obviously done on purpose, though. I will have my revenge, don't know how to do it. Yeah, I know you will. You guys beat me up pretty bad about the frickin' what it was. You beat me up pretty bad, yeah, so I'll take that. That's a really fun hamburger. I saw you and Zach got into, I saw you guys get in and I walked around you guys for a little bit. And then I went off and grabbed one because I was stuck there for another three hours, so I figured why not eat. Now it's pissed off, so I want to leave. I come back and you guys are at Matt's table and you're sitting there and you have this little cup and it's got a baby recick in it, and I'm like, "What the hell?" And I'm like, "What the hell?" And I'm like, "Another cup with another recick in it." I'm like, "Why are there two recicks?" Oh, those are mine. What did you think you recicks? I wanted them. And he said this one wasn't as pretty, so he said to take this one and this one, and I said, "Do, why not?" And I'm like, "Oh yeah, why not, too?" It seems like I'm really good at trading snakes, but I suck at selling snakes. I just trade snakes, left and right, all kinds of stuff, but I don't really sell snakes. It should probably work on that. You should really work on that. I mean, of course, when you get this broadcast that you suck at selling snakes, you everyone live snakes, so it was cool because you were drooling over your recicks, and then we were playing around in that table with his ball python, so he took the picture of us pointing and staring at the ball python, which I kind of found hilarious. Yeah, it was pretty funny. I got to say though, man, that was a nice ball python. I'm sitting there and I'm oogling over it, and you guys are busting my balls. He tells me to take it for six bucks. He's just taking for six dollars, and you're like, "I don't know, because you have a hard target, taking for free." And I'm like, "Wow, that happens to that." And then I told him, and I'm like, "Is this guy serious? Like, I don't know what to do here, like I'm walking away with this or what?" And then I'm like, "Well, if you had probably walked around and come back, that would have probably been like, I would give you five dollars to remove it from my table." If you had just kind of, if you had just kind of, kind of teased it a little bit more, I think you could have gotten away there. Yeah, I was, I was trying to figure out something that, again, here I go with the trading again. I was saying, I was thinking, "No, I probably have a carpet or something that he probably wants, so we'll work something out." But it's just a cool, cool looking snake. But yeah, it's, so real quick, before we get Jamie on here, we're going to talk about hammering a little bit too, a little bit more. Today, it's like my Christopher Walken voice, today I go, I go down to the hub for the next time, because me and Bill, my good friend Bill, Stiegel from GTP, Keeper Radio and Phoenix reptiles, he wanted an albino zebra jag in the worst way. And luckily for me, I hatched L3. Again, with the whole trading thing, he has, he gave me a whole bunch of snakes for this, for this snake, some really nice chondros, some royal pythons, and I think there's a jungle dragon there, it's just boiled python, ball python, yeah. So I go down, we put it to hub, because it's kind of warm, I wake up, everything's good, I'm thinking yeah, drive right down after traffic, head down there and walk up, they're like, "Your package is in Illinois," and I'm like, "What?" Was this the hub in Fort Washington, or did you go down to the Philly hub? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I contact Bill real quick, and he contacts his people, and you know, they're going to be delivering it tonight at 9.30. Oh, sweet. They have a mid-show delivery. Hurray. Yes. Hopefully, you know, if you hear all of a sudden, "Tack Dogs" coming at, you know what it is. We are the first show to ever do on-air delivery, if you're all dead, it's going to stop. No. Luckily, the weather in Illinois, the weather in Illinois was not as hot as what was here today, so that's good, so I feel good about that. Yeah, I wanted to throw out a couple of things real quick. Southwest Carpet Fest is this weekend, this Friday. Make sure you read the list very carefully, somebody got really excited. Yeah, in Bricato, I was like, "Oh, what?" He was about to sell his house and throw it at the fitting thing, so we kind of reread that. So, yeah. They got an auction. I posted the auction over on Mariah Python radio, Facebook page, but you can go to the Southwest Carpet Fest group page and place the bidding. See the rules, see what they got going on, they have some cool stuff, Terrell's organizing all that, so be sure to go over and check out what they got. They do have a really nice bowow, and so if you are in the market, you should check it out. On to other news. I don't know if you happen to catch the episode this past Sunday, "GTP Keeper Radio," but I got to give those guys a shout out. They did a locality contro show, they did it with some awesome guys. Brian Fisher, who's been on our round table many times, awesome guy. He does a lot of work with Biox, Chuck Vogel, who does, he was also on the show. He does a lot of work with the Kofias, which are probably my pinnacle locality condros. One day, I will work with them because they're just amazing. One day, he'll happen. One day, and then, he had a Ruby Yock at Hamburg that was pretty. Yes, very nice. Everybody's kind of on a contro kick, I know. I got to show, the last one that was on the round table was Gary Chavino, who was also on our show. He deals a lot with the Arfak and the amount of quarries, I believe it is. Really nice stuff. I don't know. It's just an awesome episode. Those guys talked about a lot of different things. There's just a lot of information. If you get a chance, you should go and check it out. Bill and Buddy do an awesome job and tons of information in there. Let's see. Also, they mentioned on there that the Rico auction is going on. I believe that's from the 14th to the 17th. This is round three. Signal Herp auction. You have a chance at some of Rico's last remaining animals that he has. Chuck was one of the guys that put that all together. If you're looking for some awesome contros, that would be the spot to check it out. I know Zach has dropped a pin on a few things. He's going too high. I'm worried about Matt, because he might drop some money on some contros on that. That guy's got the bug, right? Yeah, I'm going to just hang back here and hide my red bird myself. Nice. Yeah, on this road, I mean, I picked him a female a Rupiah, because I know two guys who have a Rupiah, you know, Dajak, you and Zach, I'll wait, like, I need a boy, I'll wait. Yeah. I hope it happens with you, because then I'll just trade you something, and it'll be really easy. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah. Pretty soon I'm going to run out of things to trade though. Yeah. Well, we're not even going to talk about what I got this month, week and career show. Oh, yeah, we won't touch on that. We won't. We won't talk about it. We won't talk about it. Okay, so over that. I'm trying to stretch this out perfect so that when you are talking to Jamie, the door somebody will knock at the tent. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. Yeah. I know it's not going to happen. Also, I know you're not going to be able to get the mute button before Dexter loses his mind. I'm just waiting for the doctor to go crazy and then you drop off, and I'm like, well, all right. I mean, come on, but it's all a spade to spade to spade here. You know, it's all right. I also have two other things. Our good friend, Fredrick Averback, he was successfully, again, he was successful. So again, at producing bones, Python, 12 eggs, one slug, dude, he's got a nail down. How many years in a row now, four? Three years. Three years. Three years. Yeah. It's crazy. That's awesome. And cash is going to buy them all again. I couldn't even imagine what kind of price tag they would fetch. You know, I mean, figure wild or captive hatched or what, two grand? Yeah. Do you think cash were just like burned and pillaged and just took them that way? I mean, when cold, warm biking on that, I mean, yeah, maybe, maybe give that to me now. Give me that. Give me the board. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. And then the last thing I have is I hatched out a clutch from Carmel Jag Carmel. And goddamn it. If I can't figure out what is super Carmel's, Carmel's, oh my God, I'm banging my head over here against the wall. Yeah. It's. Yep. Yep. I wish I could help. It's great. Yeah, I know. It's not like you've hatched them for anything. Yeah. I send out a message. Owen, can you show me what they look like? And he sends me a picture and then he sends me a picture of it, Chetan. And it's like as big as like yearling carpets of mine. And I'm like, what the hell man did it? Did it already eat like pinky or what? We were talking about this. Hey, you're like, I'm like, you gave me two 2014 animals. You're like, oh, they're on hoppers. One of us here is a monster. I don't know which one yet. I'm a slow grower, man. Yeah. I feed, but I like slow growth. So that's probably works to my. It was a disadvantage for me, but oh, well, it is what it is. Oh, well, it happened. Yeah. Pretty soon those carpets that I gave you will, they'll be breeding my next year. No problem. Yeah, you'll have them go my next year. No problem. All right. So I don't know if you had any other thing. I got nothing. Nothing. Okay. Let's get this going. We go. Yeah. And get the live delivery coming here. Okay. Hey, Jamie. Welcome to Maralee Python radio. Glad to have you. What's up, guys? How's it going? All right. Surviving. We're waiting for Eric's package because that's the exciting part of everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, like a Caitlyn Jenner type package. Yeah. I don't know if you heard this and we've already lost control. I don't know if you heard the story, but. I had something that didn't make it to the hub today. So they're delivering it tonight at 9 30. Wow. At least you're getting it. That's nerve wracking. Yeah. Yep. Yep. We can out. So it's fun to make fun of them while he does this. Yeah. Oh, the whole Hamburg debacle where you were waiting for your table. Yeah. You needed your hammer. Yeah. I know. The magic hammer. Apparently the condensed to me. To quite possibly give you your table. Exactly. But apparently people were watching me because I promised to throw a fit. If it didn't get my table. So people were like, Oh, we're expecting only to lose his mind. So when I got my way. I think a lot of people were a little disappointed that I got my table and I wasn't going to like, you know, start throwing things. So I was disappointed because you were going to rent my other table. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it had Eric rented and you can try doing a show for once. Yeah. And August. That'd be awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Sweet. All right. All right. It's like a hundred and six degrees in that freaking barn. Yeah. Nine o'clock in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. No one comes. Yeah. That's how I got my table back. So. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it would be next to day. Anyways. Dan, why don't you start by telling us like your reptile story. What got you started in reptiles and where are you going and what you're doing? What's your main focus now? Okay. I didn't really get into reptiles until probably right after high school. When I got my first apartment, I had a friend that I met who was very much into reptiles, but he was mostly in the venomous. So he had, you know, all kinds of bizarre stuff that scared me, honestly. But so my first apartment, I filled up a whole room of tanks. You know, I just went to a local pet shop and bought whatever I could get. You know, stuff you have no idea how to take care of. You don't know what you're doing. The ship's biting you and you just don't know what it is. So I got a lot of that. So that's kind of how I got into it. Most of it was boa's. Boa's. Yeah. Boa's are awesome. And some milks, stuff like that. So I did that for a while. I always had some snakes pretty much. Not really any geckos. I really didn't breed anything on purpose anyway. I did that for a while. Then took about 10 years off, I guess, until about the mid-2000s. And I got that into it. That's pretty much what I'm doing now. OK. So what led you to jump into the geckos? Because like I said, like we just mentioned earlier, you're pretty well known for breeding leopards and cave gecko. So what led you down that path? When I started this in 2007, I had a partner. And the partner, he was the one that was into the geckos. I had the snakes. So I had all kinds of snakes, a lot of stuff, lots of colubrid stuff, royals. Is that the right word? Am I supposed to use royals? That is the right word. Great. I'm not sure the name of the ball play. OK. So I had royals. I got into those pretty early when they first started coming around with the morphs. And probably about a year into it, about 2008, 2009, I was left with all of stuff. So I had to make a choice as to which way to go. And at the time, I thought geckos would be, it just fit my life better, more or less. I don't know what I was thinking, but that's what I was thinking. OK. I'm sure it was a good decision, but I had a bad decision. It was my decision. So what I did was I more or less started to sell off all of the snakes that I had amassed, which was a lot, a lot of stuff, and a lot of royals and boas and rainbow boas and Amazon and tree boas and all kinds of colubrid stuff that I was working with at the time. So it just got, it was a huge collection and it kind of all got dumped on me at one time. So that's all done with geckos. And that spiraled fast, just like the snake. So I started out with some birds which turned into some caves which turned into 40 different species and a basement full of tubs stacked up to the ceiling basically. Wow. Yeah, a lot of babies. What led you to kind of turn now and start really getting involved with the snakes? A lot of people don't realize you have a pretty large and extensive snake collection right at this point. But actually, right now I probably have more snakes than I have geckos. I, for the last two years, have more or less whittled down the gecko collection to only like two species. And in the meantime, I've been bringing in snakes again, again, I've always had them but like, you know, different stuff. Kind of got into the Moralia thing a few years back. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I guess I'm going to steal one of Eric's favorite words and say passion. I started to use the passion for the animals and gain the passion for the snakes back again. And just enjoy them. You know, I don't know. There's a lot of factors in that really. More of like lifestyle stuff. But it just, it fits my life a little better. I actually, I'm very much into them right now. I enjoy keeping them and taking care of them and breeding them. And I kind of look at the geckos and I'm like, wow, you know, that's a lot of babies. So I don't know how I did it for eight years as long as I did with hundreds and hundreds of babies. I have no idea. But I wouldn't. If it's got legs, I don't know what to do with it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I pretty much did everything that I wanted to do with geckos. I guess more or less. Yeah. That makes any sense. It does. So it's kind of on to the next thing. So how many species of snakes do you currently have? Oh, geez. I don't even know. The correct answer. I don't have an answer. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how many. Wow. 15 maybe? Yes. I don't know. It's too late to ask questions like that. Oh, sorry. Yeah. We should have given you a heads up to your answers and count. So... Quite a few. Quite a few. But you know, it's not like we're adding like a lot of everything. Well, I shouldn't say that. I have quite a few carpets. I probably have 50 carpets. Okay. But most of those being juveniles and adults, I'd probably have, you know, like 15 or so. The rest of the stuff is just like a trio here of this or a pair of that. Just stuff I've always wanted and stuff that I had had before and sold when I got dumped on with the geckos. And I wanted to get back. You know, like the Argentine boas and stuff like that. Rainbow boas. That's a boa. That's two boas. I don't think so. What else? Geez. Wellness, of course. Some of those. I've had those for a long time too though. Mm-hmm. Cool. So do you have separate rooms or do you keep everybody in the same room? Like you have geckos and pythons all living in the same place? Well, the way it's set up is it's a basement in a building that I own. Okay. And the main room is like 12 by 19 and then there's another room that's like, it's like 10 by 11. So as of now, the bigger cages for the bigger stuff is in the 10 by 11. And then the other room that's kind of divided in the middle and half it's the snakes and half it's the gecko stuff. Which there isn't, like I said, a whole lot of geckos left really. The cave geckos don't even hear anymore. They're at my friend Justin's which you guys know. My other... My warring hobbit. He hasn't seen it out. Okay. We were going to have Hobbit flight to Carpetfest. Yeah. We blew it. Yeah. We didn't do it. Yeah. I show up to Owens and he's like, "Quick, to the treadmill." I'm not running. Don't you embarrass me. Yeah. He's like, "What the hell?" He's like, "Eric is on a treadmill. He doesn't know why." I'm like, "Oh, man. That's bad." That's really bad. A lot of the cricketer stuff. I sent the cricketer stuff up to his place for now just because he's into the bearded dragon from the crustids and all kinds of other stuff that he's into. So they're up there. So here is just snakes and some leopard geckos. Okay. Do you have any issues keeping them all in the same room? Or is it pretty much everybody can survive at everybody else's temperatures? Yeah. I mean, everything's heated itself individually. You know, leopard geckos are pretty much the same temperature. I keep the room in the upper 70s. So it's all pretty much just works. I mean, it's all kind of in the state of flux right now, I have to say. I'm going to figure out what I'm going to do with a lot of things and, you know, make some cages and whatnot to figure out how I'm going to set stuff up. But I assume within the next two years I'll be just pretty much predominantly snakes. Yeah. That's your peak. How many geckos did you have? Oh, babies? Or you mean just species? Everything. Because I'm trying to figure out just like how daunting it must have been to feed all the little bastards. Because, I mean, I hate dealing with crickets in like an up 10 degree. Oh, yeah. And then I would hate mixing rapache even more. So that's easy. That's cake. But I can't imagine like having 2,000 individuals that I have to truck crickets in with as well as, you know, mixing rapache and doing all this stuff. It just seems really annoying. I had a lot of like, roach colonies going, so I had thousands of roaches and I would order crickets, you know, a few thousand, four or 5,000 a week. About 100,000 mealworms a month. You know, I don't know. I didn't realize how crazy it was until I kind of looked back at it last year. I was like, wow, that's just nuts. But, you know, I still work full time. I have construction business and kids and a wife and I have rental properties and all this other stuff. So I'm always doing things. But it was probably like looking back, it was like two to three hours every night after work and then all weekend, every weekend. But number wise, probably under a thousand babies a year mixed, you know, with everything mixed up, you know, being Australian geckos and the Asian geckos and leopard geckos. It was probably, it was under a thousand, but that's still an insane amount of animals, really. Yeah, that's a lot of little baby geckos. Yeah, I don't even think the market could even support that now, to be honest with you. Like it did then like five years ago. I could sell pretty much everything and I couldn't even imagine right now trying to do that. In the time, I don't have the time. Jesus, that's, that's a lot. It's a lot. I was talking to Lon at carpet fest and he was, I said something. He was like, wow, he's like, that's just crazy. I didn't even really put it in the perspective really thinking about it. I mean, snakes too. I mean, the snakes were like two days a week. You know, you feed one day and mate and clean throughout the week. Yeah. You know, and then that was just what I did on the days where I didn't have gecko stuff to do, you know, in between there. Yeah, it's really crazy. It was never a full time job, but it was more than a full time job. Yeah. That is, that is kind of crazy. That is, that's a lot of individuals. Yeah. Yeah, lots of poops, lots of poops. Yeah. Can you imagine hatching a thousand baby carpets? No, dude. That'd be horrible. Oh, no way. No, I knew little fighters that aren't feeding. Oh, at least my mind. Yeah. That'd be nuts. That'd be nuts. I know mutton does that, but that's still, that's just, that's, that's a lot. I mean, that's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I don't even think he's that high. I think his highest years, like maybe 400 babies. I thought he had said 900 on your show one of the last time you was on there, but I may have missed her. Yeah. No. You ship out to Canada and you've got 900 morellia. He doesn't have 900 carpets. He's got rattle, rattle, rattle. He's got this, that inland, all these other things. We've got a big, extensive thing. So, and also he's got the ball pythons too. So maybe 900 babies, but not 900 morellia. Nah. I think the most that he's ever hatched out was like, I think his, like, his target. Number is maybe like 300 total, but I think that's a lot. He might have, he, he might have went as high as maybe six, but, but that was a bad. It might have been like 300 carpets and then 300, you know, a lot of pythons and stuff. Right. But if we, but if Nick's like everybody else, he planned, he just like, he throws the jello at the wall and sees what's six. There could be one year where all his females are going to go and he's going to lose his mind. So. I think that's what happened. In the past year, you know what I mean? I think the year before he had bad luck and then, you know, or two years before that he had, he had not a good season and then, you know, well, he hatched some stuff, but not as good as it was. And then it made up for it the following year. But yeah, that's a lot. I don't think the market could handle that many carpets. No. No. That's his job also, correct? That's what he does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I was at that point a couple of times where I could have, I really feel that I could have done it. But when I got to the point of where I was going to, I kind of was like, I just don't think that I want to do that. And then I didn't. So I'm glad I didn't actually. Did it take some fun out of it? Do you think it would take some fun out of it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it would, you know, and just trying to keep up with everything is it's a bit hard now and I have one sixteenth in the collection. It's not keeping up with the animals, but keeping up with the aspects of like social media in the website and trying to do eos. Like I was doing two shows a month for years. It just, oh boy. It's just, yeah. It's a lot. It burns you out pretty quick. Well, I didn't see yours. It's that quick. But it was, yeah. I'm resilient, I guess. All right. Cool. So I was going to talk a little bit about some of the, you know, the individual projects that you're working with. And I figured, uh, since this is Mariah Python radio, we'd start with carpets. Okay. What, uh, what are some of the stuff you're working with and, you know, project wise and. What's your, what's your, uh, your goals? Uh, you just hatched out what coastal's I think this year, right? Not yet. I have eggs, eggs cooking for coastal's. Last year was my first carpet clutch. I had a, uh, I have a male dynam that I put to the, uh, precision, uh, jungle. So long fun goals and I didn't tell you those babies. I still have the dozen of them here because I don't know what the hell they're going to look like. So I want to wait. And I'm learned by watching. Smart man. You guys. I have a learn by watching all of you guys. For certain things like that. So I want to hold them to see because they're all turning crazy yellow and lots of tipping and it looks cool. So. I'll probably have some at Tinley to sell, but maybe I don't know. We'll see. But, um, cool. Beyond that, I have, uh, a coastal clutch cooking right now from, um, that was a Mike Curtin Frank Roberts coastal. It's like a blue and silver one that's really cool that I picked up in like 2012. Um, that's a 2010 animal. Um, that actually has this sibling to that is one of his. Yes. Cause he sent me a message. I put it up on Facebook and he sent me a message of telling me everything. And I had just met that guy with Mike at White Plains like a month before that, which was kind of neat. And I showed Mike the picture and that guy was there. He's like, wow, I can't believe that's the animal. So, um, that's a real cool one. So hopefully they get that hatches. Um, two precision jungles together that I had picked up. Um, and then also I have a balon tiger and a Russian tiger from Mike. Got eggs from that too. The clutches were massive, like huge, like 16, 20 some eggs. And then the last one was like, I think it was seven eggs, which is, I think is the way I want to go. Yeah, you want to go smaller. You know, yeah, I'm dropping 30 something eggs in a clutch and it's really annoying when they all hatch. I like to have a whole bunch of, yeah, I like to have a whole bunch of little different little clutches of different stuff. Yeah, variety, of course. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, so look at these clutches. I was like, how did you even do that? Like, where did that come from? So I had these piles of eggs and, um, air cooking. So, you know, the weird thing about like getting back into the snake stuff and. Being eggs, the eggs that it kind of freaked me out because it's like Gecko eggs don't look awful. Like it's twice on eggs due towards the end. So I'm like freaking out, like I'm thinking, oh, I got to add water. I got to do this. I got to that. You know, I'm still kind of cut my teeth, I guess. So just, you know, on that stuff and realizing that they can look like absolute shit. And that's how they're supposed to be, I guess. Yeah, at the end, if they look like absolute shit in the beginning, you've done something wrong. But yeah, I don't even know. I don't even know what's going to happen. So I'm just going to wait. Hopefully they hatch. Well, I'll be happy and they're cool. And then we'll go on to year three. So we'll see what happens. Cool. But that's it for next year. Yeah, projects for next year. I have a lot of jungle stuff that should be ready. Zebra's, I have a headhunter zebra, I have a steagle zebra. I like a lot of the jungle stuff. That's kind of what pushed me to Morelia a long time ago was seeing Scattershot at a show like 2009 or something with Mike in carlile. And then always vending with Jason Bail and I always see his stuff too. So it's weird because I've always talked to carpet people. I've just never really had any until a couple of years ago. You know, like anything I've ever had, I've readles. I've readles in my 2009, I've got a pair of stripes from not Casey. Oh, cool. She's kind of like, she's huge. So if she lays, last year she lays this bunch of slugs. So we'll see what happens. But if she lays, that'll probably be another 900 egg cut. [laughter] That'd be nice. I mean, she was, I know the breadles have been fighting for the last, like, year or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So hopefully that works out. She's like the size of like a small winter bag. Oh, she's huge. So I don't know. We'll see what happens. You know, scale separation, doing the coiling, all the, you know, the normal sign size. I'm still kind of learning, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't think, I think it takes years really, you know, to get into it. And everything I want to do is going to be more like the line bread, kind of small and mighty collection. Not the huge produce, everything that there is kind of thing. So I learned that, I learned that lesson a long time ago. So I'd rather have 10 awesome snakes since, you know, 30 of everything. Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Focus. I have a lot of binos growing up and I have examples growing up and. Oh, kind of stuff. Red stuff from Jason and how binos from Eric and I don't have anything from you. Oh, and you're about the only one I don't have anything from. Then buy something, God damn it. I don't know. I don't know what it is. I just, I don't know. Oh, you keep, you call them and say we go. That's a nice one. And then you walk away and I'm like, we'll get it. All right. Fine. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah. You're the only guy. You're not represented in my collection. I don't know what that is. I'll dazzle you in August. I'll bring the bunch of shit. So we'll see what happens. Yeah. All right. You can dazzle me. That's the work. Anything that you're looking to add to your carpet collection? I don't know about carpets. I have to let a lot of these guys grow up and color up and see what I'm going to keep and what I'm not going to keep and kind of choose from there. I mean, I do really like the tiger stuff. I wouldn't mind picking up citrus tigers, which I know you have some and you never sell them. They're actually hatching as we speak. Those are very cool. He's not going to sell any. He's not going to sell any. Not yet. Not yet. I will. You know, I really, I would like those and I really like, I have a bunch of them as well, but I really like the Diamond Jungle Cross stuff and Diamond Jungle Jags. I like those too. But I have a bunch of those growing up too. So I don't, I'm not really sure. I've, like I said, probably 50 carpets growing up. So that's quite a bit, I think. I want his albino tigers. Now those are the ones I'm going to get. Those are awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Super cool. Super, super cool. Every time Owen, every time I ask Owen about, you know, do you want to trade something? Yeah. He'll say Tiger had albinos and I'm like, God damn it. I'm not giving them away. Yeah, there's, they're really cool. They are really cool. Yeah. One day he'll break it. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. When I have albinos, then I'll sell you. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. I still have some of those super carmels. You can trade them. He has super carmels. Yeah. Everything I have, he has, I have the fun to meet his boss like that. I have to be the one to beat him to him. Then I got him. Yeah. No. Yeah. Trade me some bowels. Yeah, dude. That's what it help. He needs some bowels. You know what's funny about that? He got Dominicans and five days later he had babies. Okay. I've had Dominicans for a year before that and I still don't have any babies. He's the boa whisperer. He must be. He must be. That's cheating. I showed you pictures at the show and you're like, fuck you. Walked away. All right. Yeah. I'm sorry. That's all right. I laughed every time I listened to you whine about trying to fuck beat getcos and get them started. Oh, they were horrible. And now I don't know if I want mine to breed. So I'm not sure. Well, you've got the geckos. I mean, you just find the leopards that you really hate. And then you just chuck them in with the baby boa. I had to go and set up a tank of freakin' house gecko, which I had no idea the fuck I was doing. Yeah. I'm pretty sure they were loose house geckos at mother's place, but that's not important. Oh, yeah. I hate the bugs. I hate the bugs. Yeah. So hilarious. Easily hilarious. Now, I know for a fact that you have some of my asses as well. How I know for a fact is that is that you showed me a water python and then I hooked you up with olives python at one point. So you did? What do you have, laces? It's just the olives now? Yeah. I have a 1.2 of the olives. They're a little over a year old now. Well, about a year and a half old, I guess. So they're like five foot long, I guess. They are awesome snakes. They are super great. I really, really like those. They're different. I don't know how to explain that. Other than that, they're, I don't know, they're just different. They're easy to handle as of now. I've heard horror stories, but I'm not really worried about it. I just, I like them. They seem like they follow you around the room. They're kind of paying attention to what you're doing. They're just really cool. And I like Ode and Green, so it just works for me. It does, and have you noticed that these guys kind of have a more of a pumped up appetite than some of the other pythons? They definitely have a feed response, but it's nothing like Argentine boas or anything like that, though, I don't think. Really? But they're still, they're still definitely, they definitely have one hell of a feeding response. I kind of did, I guess, hook training is the word where I tap everything kind of on the head with the hook to kind of let it know that I'm not a rat, so I don't get attacked. The stomach, right? This way, you knock it unconscious so you can easily move it around, right? Yeah, yeah. You're putting a refrigerator that way, so it kills no fish. I'll show them the head and then you clean the cage and throw it back in. You just flick it, you flick it. But yeah, they're, they are, they're just really cool snakes. I'm really excited to see. I want to get more, actually. However, that works out, but I like pay for it to grow up, but I'm excited for it. Do you have any of your guys? I was about to say, many of your guys are the albinos. Have you seen me albinos? I did it, Tinley. Who was like a heartwig? Was it heartwig as his name? I think so, yeah. Yeah, I, I ruled with those at Tinley. That was one aisle. I actually made it down. I missed half that show somehow. I don't know. I missed half the aisles. I was there for three days. It was just really busy, but yeah, they're fantastic. I just think as of right now, I just, I'm kind of hydored out so far. I didn't want to spend the money just yet. So we'll see how that goes. I need to hook up on the east coast as albinos. You got to do it. Seriously. Seriously. I want to get rough scales next. That's the next thing I think is rough scales. That's my, I've been talking to you with that. It's been a year now, but that's still what I want to do. You, you told me once that you were like, I didn't realize how cool they were. And then I brought one of my, I brought my boys to a show once. I think you were part of the group. Amazing. It came away from me. So yeah. Yeah. I'm part of the group guys. You don't, you don't notice how cool they are until you see them as well. I don't want to say, well, is yours adults out in now? Is yours an adult? That male, you've had a carpet fest? I'm not, I'm wrong. I'm not getting any bigger because he's, yeah. That's the size I want him to be. So I think he can help Vulcan still got some growing to do, but he's catching up. So yeah. Yeah. And then I get to start this all over again. So. Hmm. That's it. That's definitely a thing you need to see in person, I think. It is. Yeah. It is because I don't think any pictures do them justice and also so cool to, like, feel them kind of run through your hands. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like the whole battle, Condro. I'm working on it. I'm working on it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God, I'm a monster. Yeah. Yeah. That means you're going to get burned at the stake for that one. How about that? Would you, would you consider moving into other light access? Or are you just sticking with the olives at this point? Probably just olives just because I have that water python. You still have that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Crazy or no health. I think it was nuts. But, but he actually chilled out. The female is that I have is an evil, evil thing that actually jumped out of the cage yesterday and, well, they're underneath the racks and I had to take apart my entire snake room to retrieve her yesterday. Oh. Yeah. That sucks. Plus kisser. Really not my favorite light access. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He used to do like that death tornado thing like himself around. Try to bite every part of me that he could. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. It'll fit in like he was in a psychopath. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So now probably just olives for now. You know, I just, I can't ever see myself being focused on one thing. I know some people think that's bad. People think that's all right. But I just, I'm not the type of guy to be focused on one thing. This is not going to happen. So I'm all over the place. No, I like all over the place. You're talking to guys. You have the cool stuff. All over the place. Yeah. Yeah. So. I, yeah. I call it Noah's Ark syndrome. Yeah. Yeah. I've had that to the extremes. Like. You live every time. No. That's not news. Bad news. But it always has to be a pair, I guess. That'd be the Noah's Ark. But yeah. Yeah. Sure. I just don't ever see it. I don't ever see it being able to. I actually tried to specialize just in leopard geckos, like about two years ago. Just, it just, yeah. It lasted about six months. Just like I can't do this. Well, I've, I've done it with, with carpets. But it seems that, you know, I always thought because there's so many different types, different, you know, subspecies of carpets that that could just keep my interest. But. I doesn't like carpets will always be the focus of my collection. But, you know, it's just so many other cool. Pythons are really my thing. Yeah. But there's just so many cool snakes out there. You know, as soon as you think you have it all, somebody else comes along and you're like, God damn it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I totally agree. I totally agree. It's like, look, squirrel. Like you're all over. Yeah. Exactly. Jamie, are you a little bit concerned about when it comes down to breeding the owls that, have you heard the rumors that apparently another male is needed? I, I have. I've heard that. I talked to Jason from Hellbent. He, he's a cool dude. I have some of his stuff too. Carpet wise. He, he was telling me that too. But I've also talked to other guys who are breeding them and they only have a care. So. I don't know. I mean, they say the same thing, like, like the Candoya stuff that I have that I hear that with that too. But, you know, like the one guy where I bought my Isabelle Island ground bow is from. He only has a pair and he gets babies every year. So. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I think at first when they're kind of newer to the hobby, I think that that may be more of a necessity. I mean, I don't have a problem picking up another male. I mean, so what? Right. Right. I don't know. I mean, it takes so long to grow them up. I probably will do that. I just I just happened to, I ended up picking up another female from the same clutch from that Jeff Hartwick guy. Yeah. So I grabbed it when I could, you know, so just kind of worked out that way. Cool. I hear that there. I mean, I know you guys haven't bred them yet, but I hear that they're a little bit tricky to breed just in general. Do you or how are you? Yeah. You're just going to do standard by time stuff. When it gets closer, I've got about three, three and a half years to worry about that. So I think when it gets closer, I'll probably I'll probably focus in on it a little bit. And I bet you, you know, by then there's going to be a lot more data like between, you know, just regular captive bread breeders. Yeah, there'll be a lot more information. You know what I mean? Like. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it seems like those type of those, those type of pythons in particular, you know, olives, I think of. You know, ring pythons and. Yeah. Stuff like that. You know, I haven't really focused on and now all of a sudden seems to have sort of an uptick in the. In the Python market, so to speak, where I think more people will be. Trying to bring it with them. Yeah. Oh, yeah. What the hell it was. I thought it was a freakin corn snake when I first looked at it. I was like, what the hell is that thing? And then they just vanished gone, you know, and then they come back and the last time. Oh, and I think you probably I think you and I were talking about that. There was a dude at Hamburg. No one of one baby for $1,500. Yes. Yep. I remember the guy. He brought the whole group, the whole little clutch down. He had like six or seven of them. Yeah. And he'd be there with rings and, you know, I had not seen rings at a show ever. I mean, you'd seen the pictures of Tom's yoga in his place and stuff like that. And it's like. They went from a hundred and fifty bucks to non-existent to like $2,000 a baby. And it's like, oh, crap. Yeah. And it's, and they're still pretty high up there. Um, I mean, my only concern with breeding my olives. I don't think that is. I really don't want them to kill each other. So. Yeah, that is the beauty that happened to. I mean, he had that in seven years raising this thing. And then the man would get the hair like those are. I'll be like, well, yeah. You're dying. You're just, you know, just be one of those things. And I'm done. Never getting these again. Maybe that's why you need two males because the female kills the first one. Yeah. Kills the first one. I'll put in the other one. Yeah. That's a great area. Yeah. Not why. They're really shitty theory. I don't know. Yeah. I put my mac clots together and like I put them together. And instantly they're like food and like wrap each other up. And I'm like, what? No. And they have to like separate them from each other. Yeah. So that, and I would just imagine, you know, olives get a lot bigger and there'll be a lot more. I just played off a, you know, 10 foot, 12 foot animal from each other. So with big teeth, big teeth. Yeah. Big teeth. Yeah. Let's talk about, you said you, you work with, uh, woma pythons. Um, you know, what are your experiences? Uh, it seems to me like the people that I talk to that the, the eggs are pretty difficult to, uh, to get going. Is that, is that your experience or? I agree. I agree completely. Um, I bred them once years ago. I bred them again. When I got another pair. Um, she's, uh, 2013, I guess it was. And that was fine. I was like, Oh, this is, this is easy. Last year, got nothing. This year, I got a pretty good clutch. I sent him a picture. He sent me a picture. He got, I think he got some too. Um, four days later, I smelled them. Uh, pulled them out of the incubator. That was it. And I was like, what in the three hells? Like, this doesn't make no sense. So I don't know what it is. I have, I have another female. She'll be ready next year to try. But I already know the female that I have. I mean, she's already laid, you know, a clutch that was awesome. And then, so I don't really know what to deal with that. But I have read about that a lot. And I'm going to have to agree with it. It's a hundred percent. They actually look perfect when they were, when she laid them, they were phenomenal. Phenomenal eggs. Probably the best looking python I've ever seen in my life. Really? And they just went bad. Yeah, they went bad. And I use Sims. I don't know if you guys, I don't know if you guys do like the light diffuser, shoebox, dealios, or whatever you guys do. But I use Sims. I put them in plastic tub and shove them in my experiments. Yeah, sure. Well, you know, the incubators that I have are the newer ones kind of evolution exhaust makes, you know, kind of, they're cool because you can leave the door open and the temperature doesn't really change besides like about a half a degree. Yeah. Because there's a lot of air movement. There's a lot of air movement because it uses a heating element and a big giant fan. So it seemed like they were, everything was drying out super quick using a traditional shoebox style kind of, you know, the light diffuser, you know, whatever per light hatch, right, vermiculate, whatever you're going to use. So I started using the Sims this season. And I really like those. I like those a lot. And the eggs look great. They just, they obviously were not fertile. Cool. I mean, I know Andrew uses the Sim containers as well as those things, other incubators. And, you know, you like to be accurate with his monitors. So. Yeah. And it was, yeah, it's a bitch. Mike Curtain was talking about them at Carpetfest and he was raving about how, how good those, uh, Sims containers are. Yeah. He said the eggs were phenomenal. So I use them for geckos back. Like when they first came out, they were kind of more. Push towards the, you know, like the knob tail kind of gecko, Australian gecko kind of thing that they were into when those guys first came out with them and then Hogg knows I think was the other thing. So they didn't bring up the big ones until recently. But, um, yeah, I think they're great. I mean, I don't really know what the difference is. So I can't really say, but it makes a difference. I think it's just how the lid is kind of like a more rubbery and it kind of feels a little better. Gotcha. Especially with those style incubators. I mean, there's, it's like a wind tunnel in there moving around. So there's a lot of air movement. Cool. Very cool. So now let's go into the boas because apparently this is my section. You and I are going to have a talk later about that. What do you have shut up you? What do you have boa-wise? Well, I have BCOs, Argentine. It was probably my favorite boas. They always were. They were one of the first boas I got back years ago. And of course I sold my whole collection like a dummy. And now I'm slowly getting them back. Um, I have those. They're not ready to go yet. So I'll dump you another year for the one tree now. Um, those I really, really like. They're, they're, they just seem different to me when it comes to, they remind me a lot of the olives. Um, yeah. Like they're intelligence, I guess. So I dig those and, and, and black is always good. So I like black. So black is good. Um, and I have the Dominicans. Of course we've had that touched on that little conversation. They have done nothing for me besides lock up, eat, poop, and you're right all over everything. Um, you did tell me a picture of them locked up. So I thought you were going to get, you know, a litter this year. Well, it takes about 400 years for them to lay, you know, to have babies. So I don't even know. They'll be dropping. I, I have no idea. But they are, they're cool, but they're dirty. Yeah, they're, uh, super gross. Super gross. They're like rainbow boa times 10 when it comes to filth. Um, yep. But they're cool. I do have rainbow boa. They're yearlings. Um, I have resilience, which are, I love those as well. I like to call them to, I'll probably pick some of those up if I find them. And then of course there's the other subspecies, which I should have bought when I could have, but I didn't. Um, the other things I have that I, I like are the Solomon Island ground boas, the Isabella Island ones, the white ones. Um, they're yearlings. Well, they're like year and a half old. So they're still really small, but they're just gorgeous. Um, the ones I have are Captain Bread from a guy in Maryland. Um, so they eroded, you know, right up the bat when I got them. They're just doing awesome, but they grow really slow. Um, they're cool. And I have, um, Strelis, which is the, uh, the tree Bella version of the Solomon Island, the red and black ones. I have those too. I like those. Cool. They're, they're about a year off too till they can breed. So we'll see. We'll see how it goes. I'm, I, they're kind of like one of those things like I like looking at. So I'm not really, I don't get, they don't breed then whatever. It is what it is. They're just for me to look at. So what if they breed? It's great. And I'll brag and I'll show pictures and I'll be the man. Of course, why not? Yeah. Yeah. But if it doesn't happen, I'm just not going to tell anybody. I'm just going to say, yeah, yeah. I just want you to. Very quiet. You're going to keep your pride. Yeah, you're going to keep your pride. So we'll see. We'll see. I, I was always told there was a lot of gecko species that I'd work with that were supposed to be very difficult to breed. And I bred them. So we'll see. All right. We'll see. Those you can see out the mountain tops when you miss a leopard gecko clutch. You just keep quiet. Yeah. No. So that stuff. Yeah. Anybody can breed those things. I'm going to get flamed for that one. But that's, that takes no. No. Yeah. Anyway. But that's it for boas, really. Oh, I mean, I do have regular albino, call albino. I have a pair of those. And I wouldn't mind getting some sharp, some sharp stream stuff. I like that stuff too. So we'll see down the road, you know, but. Maybe some more. Yeah. Yeah. I dig them. So they're like python, so it's an even split. Yeah. Our, our Candoya difficult to work with. I mean. Yeah. I don't think so. But you know, like I said, the Isabel ones I have being captive bred. I think that that may be a lot different than bringing them, you know, getting them imported and, you know, trying to make them eat. Um, the ones, the first one, the other ones that I got the, uh, the tree boas. They are imports. But I got them now eating frozen thawed fuzzies and hoppers. So I thought I'm pretty stoked about that. At first, I was a little scared, but they're doing okay now. So. They're actually vicious eaters. They want to, they opened the, you know, I keep them in tubs actually. Um, the Isabel phase, the ground boas are in, in a rack. And so are the tree boas, but they're in like a taller bin. I think it's a 15 quart right now. Sterilite style rack, almost like a crested gecko kind of rack. Got you. With perches and perches and there's actually a substrate in there. I mixed cocoa fiber with some soil with some, um. Spagnum moss and a little bit of a cypress mulch. So they need a new water bowl. Humidity. Yeah. The way, whatever I've been told is that they do need to hire humidity and kind of more of a. More of a sloppy bit of a container, I guess. But, um, they seem to do well. They're always slopping around their water bowl or hanging off the bamboo or whatever. So they're doing good. I've had them since like last fall. So I don't know if they're difficult. I think that they can be, I guess, if you get them in their gecko years. But I think out of all imported stuff, I think the candy way are probably the easiest to switch over to road. It's, you know, according to the stuff that I paid attention to. That, um, what is Dan Mallory is at his name? Dan Mallory, I think it is. Yeah. I watch a lot of his videos too. He's a cool dude. Um, that imported pairs from him. But he, he, he says the same thing. And I was kind of, when I was looking and getting into him, I was kind of watching his stuff and checking out what he had. And, um, he said that very same thing. You know, they're, they're like the easiest thing to get the switch to rodents. So, I mean, especially frozen thought. I did live for a little while and then I did stunned. And then, you know, just, just, you know, take the regular steps to take to get anything to eat. And, um, now they're frozen thought. Take them off the tongs. They come flying out of the bins. They're ready to pierce my ears in the whole nine yards. So worse. Uh, that's a lot of cool. They're cool looking though. I mean, they're just really cool. It's a flat head and they're just so strange looking. So. Yeah, I've, I've always been curious about them and always kind of wanted to. You need them. I'll wait till you breed them. You know? Oh man, they'll be like 25 years from now. And before that, sooner soon. They foster a lot like, like the Amazon tree boat. So they kind of do the same thing, but they don't come lunging at you like they do. Uh, you know, Amazon. Yeah, they're just, yeah. I know why they still have them. They're cool though. They're super cool. Yeah. That's from above. So. Yeah, they are. I did get some chondros too. And that last fall, right after 10. Because you guys were talking about them for so long. And finally I got some, I got three, um, VOCs and they're super cool too. Like they're handleable and they're just starting to change colors. And I just, they're, they're cool. They're very cool. I don't think I'll expand any further than that. I'll wait until they grow up until I can check some, but they're, they're deep too. Yeah. Very cool. Uh, so let's, I think we're getting a color on the line. What is going on? Apparently you have a color to ask you some questions. Uh, hello. Hi, Jamie. Oh, wow. Hi. Hi, Jamie. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I told you I was going to call. You, you, you did. And I thought you were kidding. Apparently not. No. No, I follow through. Uh-huh. No, I just have, I just have some questions for you. Go ahead. Things that I can't ask you at Hamburg. So, out of all your, your gecko species, what is your, what is your favorite that you're working with right now? Well, I only have two left and I'd have to say it's probably the caves, probably the Asian stuff that I still like and enjoy. Yeah. Besides that, that's probably about it. I mean, I do enjoy the leopards. I like the leopards just because it's, it's kind of a mystery with going to hatch. I have such a diverse collection. It'd be kind of foolish to chuck them all away. But I don't have to say the caves. Definitely the caves. They're super cool. And they're room temperature. You can't really beat that. No, you can't. You can't. They're evil looking. Yeah, they are. They are so evil looking. That's the draw. Yes. What species of cave geckos do you like, like the best? I actually like the hanantas. The Chinese. The cheapest one. The cheapest one. Yeah. They're the first ones I got. And they're the ones that I kind of established. And they're the ones I still like the best. I like the black and the yellow, which kind of odd because I like black and yellow, hence, carpet plate on. Yeah, I had three, I had three hanantas. And always really good at handling them. I doubt that. Yeah. I doubt that. I doubt that. But you can't be black. He knows that story about how I really like that one. He lops a tail off, yes. Yeah. Yeah, I got nothing. I've been to work all day. I'm tired. So that's all I got. But I wanted to call in. Yeah. Your giant gecko is doing well. He eats from a spoon. Awesome. Oh, wow. That's pathetic. That's nice. He eats from a spoon and it's wonderful. That was accidental breeding. Accidental gecko breeding is always the best. Yeah. No, he's cute. I saw you got done with one too. Two. You got two. Two. Oh. Oh, twice as dumb. Yes, yes. He has two. He's going to have to. Yeah. That'll be a good time. All right. I'm going to go to bed now. Thanks. Have a nice night. Oh, definitely. Bye. Bye. All right. Yeah. Now that we've gone on the gecko tangent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you get your box? Did you get the box? No, it didn't come yet. No, it didn't come yet. Yeah. It's a half hour late on top of being already a day late. I mean. Wow. Oh, shitty. I'm going to go look at the door. Maybe they just left it on the step and ran away. All right. Well, that would be that would be par for the corsets. Probably might've been out there for like fricking. No. An hour and he didn't even look. No, it's not there. I look. All right. Wow. Jamie, what are we doing? Now it's time to get the blood flowing. Now that we've got the gecko stuff out of the way. We're not knitting sweaters and putting top hats on geckos. Oh, yeah. That's really bad. That's awful. That's awful. Anyway. Awful. Awful. Jekyll. Whoever thought of that should be their head cut off. Anyway. I hate bearded dragons. But anyway. Oh, so bad. They have any of the tricks you have learned while breeding gecko. Have you been able to apply any of them to breeding your pythons? Oh, that's a weird question. I don't. It is. That's why I like it. Wow. You may have stumped. You know, I don't know really. No, because it's like kind of opposite. Yeah. Like gecko eggs puff up. Python eggs shrink down like it's covered up. So I don't know. I don't know. But I'll tell you what though. When you have an animal that you've raised up for years to breed not, not, you know, nine or ten months and you see a shriveled up egg, it's just really shitty. Like it's a totally different thing. You know, how long does it take for them to hit special maturity? You can breed a leopard gecko within a year. Jesus Christ. Do you know what I mean? If we get into a market conversation, I can explain how that we will be extremely detrimental to anyone making any kind of investment. Yes. That's where we're going right now. That's actually the next question. Yes. All right. Right. Right. Right. The gecko market currently. I would have to say, in my opinion, of course, it is extremely oversaturated and oversaturated with base level stuff from people who just kind of got into it in the last couple years, you know, and not really paying attention to line breeding and wanting to create their own lines and whatnot, just breeding for the sake of having every morph A to Z that exists which there are so many. It's ridiculous. Like, royals and leopard gecko. It's like the same thing pretty much. I don't know. I don't think it's that good. In my opinion, I don't think it really is. I mean, you know, there never really was a rhyme or reason to it. It kind of goes in waves. And I think it goes in waves by, I don't know, that kind of ties into Facebook, honestly. I have a really weird opinion and I'm kind of like always on the outside, hence the reason why most of my friends are snake guides. Yeah, I don't know. I think a lot of it has to do with that. I think a lot of it has to do with Facebook, honestly. There's just so many and it's one of those things where if you don't stay relevant on a daily basis, you're irrelevant in three or four weeks and it's kind of hard to do. I mean, it really is when it comes to that many people working with the same things. Yeah, and that kind of ties into auctions too, so we can really go down a rabbit hole here if you guys know that's what you're doing. Do it. Do it. Yeah. So, I mean, I kind of watched it peek again and I kind of watched it fall. I mean, some guys obviously this is my opinion and they can say whatever, but a few years ago, I think it kind of peaked, you know, I went at peek and there was a lot of new stuff and a lot of new combo stuff and everything was kind of banging around and it seemed like a lot of people jumped in, which I kind of see, Jesus, I don't even want to say this. Well, yeah, because I'm kind of doing the same thing, but not really. And I started collecting carpets like two years ago, so I'm kind of out of that. But a lot of people I think I can see it too with the Morellia world, kind of like people are kind of like jumping in kind of fast. Yeah. I don't know what you guys' opinions are. I mean, we've had little conversations here and there, but I've seen it, it just got so overwhelming with people and babies. And now think about it. If you think about a leopard gecko, you buy something for a thousand dollars and then in a year it breeds and then you sell your babies. You're basically selling the best stuff you're going to produce to your, your, your, basically the person who's going to out produce you the next year. So you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot, but I think that's kind of how reptile loren general. Um, yeah, usually unless you take an animal that takes several years to mature, you know, see, and that's, that's a good thing I think when it comes to market stuff, like I think I would agree. And this is probably why I, I don't know, I never did it as a business because I look at it. I just, I don't know. But, um, I saw it peak, I saw it fail, I saw all kinds of stuff kind of go down. There was the epic like, like Facebook wars a couple years ago, everybody and their brothers in each other. Um, right. A lot of that revolved around auctions, honestly, um, you know, when, when, when something's new, it, whatever it is, and you throw it out there, say, say it should be an $800 animal and you auction off for $200, that $800 now got a race. Now the base price is $200 because someone can say, dude, I just bought that for $200. Why would I pay $650 or whatever? And it could look totally different, but it's the same morph. It doesn't matter because of the line bread, you know, traits and whatnot to enhance whatever you're in. Um, and I think that that was kind of a downfall to a lot of it. Um, I mean, there are still some guys that are doing really good, but they're the guys that, you know, they do it for a living, they have no choice. They have to be on social media every single day, they're on Twitter, they're on Facebook, they're on all that stuff. And I don't even know how to keep up with it to be honest with you, but, um, you just become irrelevant super fast and you just have to keep up with it. But I think in the end, I think a lot of that stuff was a detriment to the hobby. I think, don't you think that the same thing happened with, uh, you know, the royals? I mean, as far as auctions and whatnot, I mean, it seems like, go ahead. I was just going to say, it just seems like as soon as you introduce that into the only thing, well, okay, the only thing that I could see that would be somewhat good about an auction is the fact that there's, there's two, two reasons. One, I like when they do it as far as, uh, raise a money for something. Okay. Yeah. Absolutely. That's a totally different animal. Yes. Yeah. That cannot carry over to the regular market. Cause that's just not fair. Like that's just irrelevant. Like that's a totally different thing. I do them all the time with stuff like, I, whatever, you know what I mean? This guy had this or this person, you know, sick or whatever, um, that's different. Yeah. I agree with that. And most of the time, most of the time with those, the animals actually go for a little bit more. They'll hire. They do. They do. Yeah. It's a good cause. Yeah. Right. Um, then the, the only other side that I could see to that is, is that sometimes I wonder what an animal is worth. Like, I mean, are, are we crazy to think that an animal is worth, say, $800 in reality? Maybe it's only worth $500 because that's what people are willing to pay for it. Like rough skills is a perfect example. You know, you have people that say, oh, I'm going to wait till the price comes down. I'm going to wait till the price comes down. So they don't, they don't get into it. You're not, you're not figuring out what the animal is worth. You're figuring out what people are willing to pay for it. So, right. Isn't that what it's worth? Well, yeah, but I mean, there's, there's certain people who will pay more for certain animals and you know that it's, you know, they're like, you know, they're like, you know, there's certain people who will pay $800 for this, but then you're finding out the majority of the people will pay six or seven. Now, is that just because that's what the animal's worth or is that what people are willing to part with? See, I don't know how you guys feel about this and maybe, maybe I shouldn't say this on the air, but why not? Too late. For those shows. All right. Here we go. Well, this is how I feel, this is how I feel about it. Like as people drop the prices on, let's say an albino carpet, I think I'm going to keep my, because I would keep my price at what I, and I think that the first thing that carpet people don't do enough of is grade their animals, you know, you have some that are exceptional, which should be higher than some that are just average, you know, I think if you have exceptional jungles, you'll be able to sell them for $500 a pop. Oh, they're totally, yeah, you know, and then you're going to have some jungles. They're probably worth maybe three, maybe two. Maybe there's some that are worth a hundred, you know, that's that that grade stuff. Yeah. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that all jungles are worth a hundred bucks, you know. So like if I know that a particular pairing that I have is like, you know, I've specifically handpicked animals from certain lineages that, you know, to me, this is where I'm taking this project, you know, I can take IJs, for example, you know, I have GQIJs and PCIJs and, you know, these exceptional animals that I'm not selling them for dirt cheap. And I think the thing that people don't do, and what I see with carpets is they're getting in that mode of just breeding to breed to pump out morphism, morphism, morphism, morph. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And that that saturates the market, which then drops the price. Yep. Absolutely. And then, you know, then you got to deal with the mentality of that. Like people will see that and they won't realize the benefits of a line bred, you know, more a pristine animal, and it kind of sets the bar really low, I guess. Yeah. I don't know any other way to say it. I mean, it's, you know, and you'll have guys, you know, even like me, like I'm out shopping for carpets or whatever, I look for what I'm looking for and it better be like the best example of what I want, like I'm not going to, you know, but that's me. That's not like the new guy coming in who's going to be like, you know what, dude, I have 300 bucks. I want to get as many friggin animals as I can for 300 bucks. And then that guy breeds and then he sells his stuff dirt cheap and then that guy breeds and he sells his and it just, it's like a domino effect. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I think the problem with think about it. Yeah. I think the problem is is that you have so many people producing and they produce animals that they're not willing to sit on. And with that being the case, then, then you go to things like auctions so that they can get rid of it for dirt cheap and not have to worry about, but they breed the same pairing the following year, they clear out the one clutch of animals just to make room for the same damn thing. Yeah. Which would work sometimes if it sells like hotcakes and it's an awesome pairing, which I understand, but nine times it's just replacing what you just sold and why are you doing that? Yeah. Right. I agree. Now, I understand that like every year, I will produce a clutch of tigers because every year I burn through my tigers and get with their nice tigers, though. They're not mediocre. Yeah. And they're not and they're not the same pairing of tigers every year. I have enough tigers. I can mix them all around and do different shit and I've kept enough holdbacks, but it's never the same pairing of tigers every year, but I still sell out of tigers and that's the whole point. That's the good thing is you mix it around, you do that stuff and you sell out. I'm not breeding the same animals every frickin' time because everybody's gonna fly my tigers and then the next year they're not gonna want the tigers, they already got it. So, and then they're gonna get pissed because I'm gonna drop the price down to 100 bucks because I can't move these tigers and they bought it for $200. So, you're cutting our nose off this spider face and it's stupid, but I digress. It kind of goes that way with everything though, like I don't know how do you stop it and make it right. It's like that with every niche in the reptile community. I think it is. It is. It is. How it is. I guess quality over quantity, I guess. I don't know. Well, that's what it should be. I mean, you should really be, I don't know, this would be another thing that I always thought carpet python breeders were different than, say, your standard commonplace reptile breeders, whereas they're just producing just so they have something, they're going to a show, they're selling it and it is what it is. It's a $200. You know, $100, you know, ball python, whatever the case may be. I mean, I have no problem with prices dropping. I am not in this delusional world that when I spend, you know, $5,000 for this morph a, that by the time I get to breed it, it's going to be selling for $5,000, you know, I have no problem with the thing coming down. But goddamn it, man, why are people just like driving it down to the dirt as fast as it can go? I think what bothers me the most is the hypocrisy of these people and the fact that they trashed the ball python people for so long about, they're just in it for the money, they don't care about the snip, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, on and on and on and on, post after post after post, you know, thread after thread after thread and then boom. Same thing. Football did the same damn thing. Yeah. Yeah. Same platform. I always say, you know, the little thing I always say is like with the leopard gecko thing, it seemed like like a lot of the bigger guys and there wasn't a whole lot of us really, but everybody was racing towards the bottom. Everybody won. Like, what do you do when you're there? I mean, at that point, you're like, you're just, you've set a bar that's so low, you've set a mindset between all your customers and, you know, another thing too that I've noticed over the last couple years. And oh, and you've been to a lot of shows, so you may be, you may be, the clientele of a show is not what it was even two years ago. No, it's not. You're not. It used to be, it used to be breeders coming. I mean, predominantly it was, it doesn't matter where you were. I don't care what show you're at. I don't care if I was in York or Pennsylvania or Rhode Island, whatever the hell I was, it was always breeders coming to buy next year's breeder stock, you know, and now the bigger shows, you know, they are just like a giant pet expo where someone, even my table, as simple as, I mean, every once in a while, I'll have a carpet or something on there, but not typically right now. And I'm not, I'm just not ready to do that yet, but don't, don't, don't ask me what it is. Like when you have to ask what a leopard gecko is, the shift's over. Like it's just, you, you've not been here at all, ever. And that happened, it's moving to Hamburg for the last two years. It's happened every show. And I've watched it just, I mean, you're not seeing guys who are going to buy animals too. You're not seeing people like what I was where I went, and I, and I walked on the show and I bought my road until I left, and I went and I walked on the show and I bought my road until I left. Then I got my money and I walked in and I found the animal that was going to be plugged into my breeding stock and project and burned like a thousand dollars and then eight three packs of tuna for the rest of the summer. So those people are gone where you're like seriously investing in stuff. It's the people who are walking out of backpacks and trying to figure out how many animals they can get for their 200, 300 dollars that they walked in the door with, and that they're going to take and they're going to throw up on Craigslist the next day, or they're going to take and they're going to, you know, fill around with and then sell at the next show. And it's almost like you see the real people weaving it out of these, of these other people get what they got to do what they got to do, get what they got to get done and leave. A lot of times those people set up sales before they leave and walk in the door. Those are the people's animals, but serious people are people's animals that have underneath it's able for you to walk in the door. So it's become this, like you said, like petting zoo mentality, something fun to do with the kids, people who aren't serious, people who walk in the door and say, you know what? I've never had a crocodile skiing before, let's buy 12 and then go home and try to figure it out and kill them all. Well, you know, and there's nothing wrong with that, but like a lot of us aren't geared towards that. No, and the other problem is that the problem is that you're pandering to the prices of these people. One time I was telling if you have Eric's animals on my table. And one was a lightning line male jungle carpet. And some guy walked up to me and asked me how much it was, I told him. Apparently, that was like the grossest price you'd ever seen in a jungle carpet python. So he tells me that, well, it doesn't matter if I buy this female and you're a male or I buy that male, I'll bring them together, I'll still get jungle carpets. I'm like, yeah, but you won't have lightning line jungle carpets. You won't have pretty jungle carpets. You won't have jungle carpets command this price. You understand that. And he went and he bought two carpet pythons, he said they were jungles, he brought them back for me to look at them and I didn't even want them to touch my table. He bought them from a lot of bucks from somebody who had like, you know, they were next to poop on Moranis or something like that, he didn't know what he was going on. So he brought them back and I'm looking at these things. One's clearly a coastal jungle crop, the other one's probably a diamond jungle. And I'm like, got lineage, he goes, no, I'm like, all right, I have fun trying to sell these later. It's like, there's no seriousness in half of the time that we're talking in Hamburg. So. Yeah, no, it's a joke even even even the New York show is kind of like just as bad, really. Yeah. It's just just not bad. You know, the thing that's going to save like like the morale your world, I think is going to be the lineage thing, like I think that that's going to be it. That was a smart thing for people to kind of establish that kind of bar of lineage, like where you should have the lineage and that was smart. That was really, really smart. How you guys kind of did that, like whoever it was and how you know, you establish that as being the norm going to be something that saves you guys, I guess, or even myself, I guess. But that's a good thing. That really is. And the other thing too, is like even like Eric said, like having a better quality animal and keep your prices up no matter what, like you may be a slump for six months, but I think it'll come back, you know, once people realize that there's no huge money here. You're not going to get rich. You're not buying a freaking yacht. You're not hanging out with Jay Z tomorrow. Yeah. You know, it just is what it is. Like you either love it or you don't, it's either worth a lot to you and worth a lot to me or it isn't like it'll flush itself out more or less. Right. Yeah. I mean, do you think that one of the things that you're seeing, I think, I could be wrong, but one of the things you're seeing with ball pythons is that I think that the people that really dig working with those are, they're going to flush out the people that are just in it because they were in it for a quick buck and I think it's happening really fast. Yeah. It'll reset itself. Yeah. Yeah. It'll reset itself and it'll be similar to like, I don't think, well, I don't think it'll be similar to like ring pythons where you don't say it, but I think that you don't be things that people will want to get and they won't be able to get it. And the people that just stayed with it because they really dig it, they'll be able to still have them available. And then that's how that guy that's selling a $1,500 ring python is able to do that because if you're the only guy that has them, well, you either pay it or you don't have them. Yep. That's it. And that comes down to the passion more or less, you have the passion to stick with it while it sucks until it comes back, you know, and that's where I kind of fall with like the gecko thing. Like I just kind of lost my steam, I guess. And I still dig them and I, you know, the community is cool and whatnot, but I'm just not, just doesn't thrill me as much as I used to them. Yeah. So for me, it's time to, you know, it's time to kind of slim down, only work on a couple things and focus on something else that I look at and say, that's awesome. I can't wait to clean that shit. You know what I mean? Oh, I got a clean shit today, you know, making me clean that things crap yet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like this sucks. I'm going to call also. I'm out of here, you know, but, um, yeah. What was, um, what do you think that, uh, social media has to do with the reptile world and, you know, the market and everything? Do you think that that's had a positive effect or a negative effect or? I think that's good. That is the devil. Amen. But at this man, you're really trying to get those citrus value from Eric, aren't you? Right. Right. Right. Right. I mean, all a plot. I think that Facebook is, I think it's cool for what it is. But like I said before, like who, you have to really hammer it to keep it good. And you know, it seems like everybody, their brother has an opinion and they want to fight over you with you over the most silliest things from water bowls. No pun intended. No water bowl, um, to heat panels, heat tape, um, what you use for a hide, you know, just the most, you could be a breeder for 30,000 years and some kid who just got his first porn snake at Petco is going to start a fight with you over a hide. Isn't that annoying? You know, and any other thing is like, Eric, I've heard you say this a million times, like you want to find something like, for instance, I see a picture of something that has nothing to do with snakes and I want to show my brother on the next day, I can't find a damn thing. It's gone. Right. Like I'll take 15 minutes on lunch and scroll through trying to find something to show him and it's gone. Like I just can't find it. So it's just, it's like a flash in the pan. Who caught it? Who saw it? You know what I mean? And if enough people see it, then you're cool. People didn't, then well, whatever, someone else is cool. I don't know. It's a very interesting thing. I don't know if it's on the decline or the rise, but it's a double edged sword for real. I mean, it'll suck up your life. I mean, who has time for that? You know? I don't even know. Yeah. It seems like it's a double edged sword in as far as you have people that do have time for it because they don't have big collections of reptiles to take care of. Yeah. Or job. And they're able to get on there and give their opinions and yeah, they're entitled to give their opinions or whatever. But when you don't have the experience and they're going to get the experience keepers, you know, they don't have, they don't, they don't have the time to really do that. No, they're not there. They're not there. Yeah. Exactly. And then you know that one person like you just said who gave his opinion will get two hundred other people that think he's, you know, he's the word of wisdom and they will follow him and then you just, it just gets worse and worse and worse. Like, it's just a very weird, I don't even know, I don't even know, like a weird thing. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. It's, it's really tough. I mean, it's great as far as, I mean, I think the positives are that you're able to hit an audience like never before. But the problem with that is I just, it, it, does it really impact what you're doing that all? You know what I mean? Like, I don't know when I first started thinking about Facebook and trying to see the positives of it. Like you're getting involved with, with more people from around the world and that's great. But that is cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. From a business standpoint though, is it really going to make you sell another snake? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's not. Yeah. Who? I don't know. I just think that like, you're not, you're not focusing on the right things. You're spending too much time on that, trying to get that to be what it needs to be, which we don't even know what that is. Right. Right. You're having an on the basics. Like even on like my page for razor sharp, like say I have 3000 some odd likes, I refuse to buy likes by the way, I absolutely refuse to do that. A lot of guys that blew me out of the dust like two years ago, like they all, they got like, you know, like whatever X amount of 10 million freaking followers and most of them are from Korea. Don't speak English. They have no idea what the hell they're even, you know, but it's numbers on a page. I refuse to do that. So I just, I just don't care like whatever I refuse. It's ridiculous. Um, and the other thing is, is like likes now, like even I'll put up a post. I used to get like last year, I'd get 200 likes or 140 likes or whatever. And that leads kind of leads to sales in a way, I guess. And now you put something up and you get 12 and it says reached 600 people, like what happened to the other 2000 or 190 people? What, where did they go? They want you to pay for it. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Did like, have you guys ever really had a crap fund of business comes through your business's Facebook page? Two years ago, I did for sure. Yeah. It was nuts. But I think that was the thing are, yeah, I mean, like most of my people are either going from ads on like Kings make or they contact me, just contact me and ask me and I send them pictures or they go through my website very rarely am I getting a PM about an animal that's in the gallery that says for sale. I sell more stuff, not advertising than what I sell advertised. Thank you. No, same here. Dead series. I don't want to sell it is when people are all over it. Yep. Or someone says, what do you have available? And then it's a giant pain because you're always taking pictures and you're always responding and you're always doing this. But I'll sell 10 times as much as an album that says for sale. Absolutely. Yeah. I agreed. Yeah. I mean, I get people that come through there, but I think that I, the thing that I've learned about like a Facebook page is that if you don't update it, it, you lose, yeah, it's a lost, you know, it's just lost. In a week, you're like gone like it's like you never existed. Yep. Yeah. You start to lose likes, you know, I'm the same way as you, Jamie, I won't buy likes. I'm at 1300 or something like that, which is fine with me, you know, I, and it's almost like I have my own little insulated world. If you want to see what I have going on, like the page, you know, and I don't have to worry about anybody else's bullshit or nonsense or anything like that. And it's, it's just like my own little, little, little center of my own little reptile world. And if you dig what I got, then cool, you know, if you don't, then, you know, that's your choice. The page, you have a good day. Yep. Yeah. Later, dude. Yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah. That's how I feel too. And that, you know, unfortunately with stuff that turns around real quick, that doesn't work real well. But, you know, for you guys, I think it's like even Morelian snakes, I mean, you have a little bit, everything takes a lot of grow, but, you know, stuff and fast turnaround stuff is just, it's on, I don't know, I think it's on the way out, down to the bottom. And I'm sure it'll come back up just like it always does, but I don't know. Yeah, it took me three years, three years to get over 3,000 likes on Facebook. Three years. That's ridiculous. Some guys do it in like six months. Right. But they're buying it, you know, and, you know, Huk Ping has this page and they don't even know, you know, these people don't even speak English. They don't, you know, 240 likes and every question is to hit the translate button because they don't even speak English. You can't ship to them anyway. They're, you know, wherever, bangladesh or somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, they were talking about this on GTP Cape Keeper Radio the other night about as far as just the whole, you know, Facebook versus forum and Brian Fisher was talking about his perspective is pretty cool because he's a young guy. So, you know, the social media aspect of things is kind of like where that generation is at. Yeah, right. But at the same point, he's been doing it since he was 12. So he came up on the forums. So you know what I mean? So like on the MVF and MP, he was kind of like, I don't know, there's just a certain sense of community that I think is lost. And it's like you're hitting more people, but you don't really want to. So you've lost this like community type feel. And it's like people are coming into the, I don't want to say it. It almost sounds like it's like you don't want people to come into the community. But like you sort of have to earn your stripes, so to speak. You know what I mean? You just have these people that are coming on that don't know shit about nothing and they're giving people advice and you're like, what the, what, you know, like false profit syndrome. Yeah. They read the one reptiles magazine article about raising carpet pythons and now they're an expert where, you know, the last article I know that came out on carpet pythons in that magazine said, send us all into a Disney because it was like, you keep one baby carpet pythons per 10 gallon tank. And that's when I threw the magazine across the room, so like, channel subscription, give me my $20 back and back. And it's like, you know, it's, it's, it's, you have that one guy who may have written that or you have the one guy who may have read that and believed in it. And then now that's the guy who's going to be answering your post. I love it because somebody asked a question on the pick of the week and very few times is it somebody who I believe should be answering the question that is answering the question. So it's, that's what is the part that's kind of scary to me is like, where's the information coming from? So. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of all profit syndrome weird stuff. Like, I think that that's the name for it. Yeah. I'd be the misinformation, you know, part eggs, carpet pythons, and live bears. So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's going to be nice. Yeah. Yeah. Oh no. It's crazy. I mean, it's good and it's bad. So. Yeah. I don't know. What about us? Yeah. I mean, the cool thing about, well, I don't know, as far as pythons go, I mean, honestly, if you're going to start with a python, I think the best python to start with is probably a ball python because absolutely, you know, you know, it's just, it's just small. It's true. Dude. It's true. I know. But I hate it when he does this. It's like, what's the name of the damn radio station? Anyway. Well, here's the thing. Once you get a ball python, you are probably more than likely going to want to keep something else. You know, because no, seriously, but you're probably going to get bored. Well, if you have notes, yeah, exactly. But the thing of it is at the end of the day, and this is just my experience and maybe I'm biased or whatever and I've kept the multitude of different species of pythons. And by far, the easiest ones to take care of, as far as being bulletproof or freaking carpet pythons, you know, you have your ones that are picky. But like, I mean, if you just take your standard coastal carpet python, I mean, I don't know. I have never had a coastal have an R.I. They shed perfect every time, whereas like in the same room, you'll have chondros that shed like shit, ball pythons that shed like shit. You know, they're doing horrible things. Yeah. I mean, yeah, they don't eat, they don't this, it's just crazy stuff that you go through. Whereas no matter what happens in your room, the temperature drops, coastal carpet, solos or rock temperatures too high, solos or rock, you know, each, I don't know. It just seems to me like the shed to dry. It doesn't matter. Sheds perfect. Yeah. You know, so I think it's a little better, but carpets are good. These are so much like, like Nick always says, the only way they come from. Exactly. They block on the head. I mean, yeah, frettles are bulletproof, like in every sense of the word where I'm pretty sure if I shot one, it would survive. So, yeah, I love frettles. But your point is valid, Eric, it's definitely valid for sure. Very extremely valid. Yeah, which is true, but I mean, come on, here's my other thing. If you're going to deal with pythons, I mean, come on, and you know, you're going to get bit at some point, and it's just a reality of working with them. I mean, come on. I've been bit by more ball pythons than carpet pythons 10 times over, I'd have to say. Yeah. But I expect them to bite you, but I know what I'm looking for, but balls, you just get railed every once in a while, you know? They go off feed for months for no reason, and they just, you know, because they got upset that day, and they just don't eat for a month, and they're like emo pythons, is what they are. Thank you. Who told us they had like, who told us older ball pythons were like nasty? I mean, we had a guest on recently, was that Matt? Eric? No, I don't think so. I don't think this is nasty. Is it long? Maybe. Somebody. Yeah, it might have been long. It might have been long. But somebody said like, oh, dude, all my ball pythons are assholes. I'm like, what? So, but I did just get a message from Bill Spiegel. He asked me, please do not shoot my snakes. Do not worry, Bill. I'm not actually going to shoot my animals, but thank you for your concern. That's a little worried that they think I'm going to do it, but anyway. But I don't know, there's several things, almost like I almost feel like if the different morphs and colors of the children's and spotted pythons would come in, the doubt would be another animal that would kind of be very popular in the community because it's how big they get and how brightly colored they are and all those other stuff. But they're shitty. I don't know. But they are shitty. And they can't be. And they're shitty, the ones I bred were shitty. I was in crap. I got them. I made them too large. I got them to the size of ball pythons, but apparently that's a huge no, no, no, no. What did you get? What? What did you get to the size of ball pythons? Spotted python. Oh. Yeah. That's a fast body. Oh, no. He's like, oh, he's like, you know, I'm like, yeah, yes, I did, we're going to hide pictures of his now. He's going to hide the one. Well, no, what? Well, we have it. I have the caramel jag at all, but I know that the 14 from Eric and I'm putting it next to my super caramel to the 14 and I'm like, Jesus Christ, I'm a monster. Like, man, I can eat this easily. So wow. What about Jamie? What about pricing? Like, how do you feel on pricing and how has what you experienced with the Gecko market? You know, I mean, how do you come up with pricing? Such a thoughts on pricing coming down and all that kind of stuff. I think that's a tough question. When it comes to like Gecko stuff, I kind of, I think everybody just kind of like looks around, sees who else has something comparable and just kind of decide on your own. You know, I don't think anybody you can go from one table to another and everything is just like grossly different from one to another. You guys don't match. Like if you were, well, let's say now I'm going to throw out Gecko terms that I may have learned and they could be completely wrong. You have, let's say you have a Mac snow wrapper. Is that an actual thing? It is? Holy shit. All right. Say, you have that on your table and some guy down there has one on his table. You're telling me the prices, you guys wouldn't match prices on that stuff. Like one dude will be 40 bucks and I'll be like 125 because my line, say I brought it out for pink for the last seven years. So I'm not going to sell it for his ugly sock look and piece of garbage for 40 bucks. And I have one that looks, you know, nice. So I mean, there's a big difference. I mean, that's kind of neat with anything. You know what I mean? That's going to be the same with anything. Like you guys, there's going to be people that are going to breed for whatever just to fill a table and they're going to throw whatever jags for 75 or 60 bucks and so many people that have nice jags and they're going to be 3, 400 still. I've never sold a jag for 75 bucks. It's ridiculous. Well, I've seen them. I mean, you've seen them. Yeah, but now is that just because of all the different lines and different projects that you get out where they wouldn't match or would they like, let's say there was another breeder that a friend of yours that had the same kind of stuff you had, would you match with price that? Oh, yeah. There's a couple dudes that I would like to say too. You know, what do you think about this and they'll be like, oh, you know, I'm going to price mine at that. You should price yours. You know, about the same. And then we usually do. But that's only like one or two dudes. The rest of them. What is what it is? Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah, maybe there's kind of all over the place, all over the place. Yeah. I don't know. I'm watching Eric. He just sets up the super caramel jags. The key screws and he'll be his ass. So I mean. You don't have to worry on because I don't sell my stuff for about a year. I know. Well, there's there's there's there's there's there's multitude of there's multitude of reasons for that one. I honestly, I think the caramel jag caramel thing was kind of that was an unexpected pairing. I didn't think it was going to take. And I really didn't want it to take in as far as I know that you had them. And I know that you had just sold them. And I know that Nick had just had them and Nick had just sold that. You know what I mean? So it's like, don't really want to do this this parent like what am I bringing to the table that's any different than what you or what Nick kept. Well, right. Anybody else that has it? Well, it's good because my female didn't breathe this year. So you're you're you're you're totally cool. There's that's a good mentality to have though, Eric. You see what you just did there like you you realize that there's going to be X amount of them on the market already. You know that that's not normal though. That's the thing like as new people they're not going to see it that way. Like I look at it and I see all you guys with all these caramels. And what did I do? I went into Reds right because I was going to be 5,000 million different people with caramel stuff. Well, I know this car, you know, some blows this thing, I instead I started getting red stuff that I like. I mean, it looks fairly similar, but it's not the same. So you know, it's just a different thing, but you know, that's that's because we have experience and the thing is is a lot of people don't that are kind of getting into the hobby. And that's where you run into the problem where you have too many of something. And that's when the price tanks. Right. Somebody just getting into the hobby is, you see, that's one of the other things I worry about is somebody just getting into the hobby is going to see what I have my caramels and my super caramels and price that by a caramel and then do the fast track to try to get it to breed and expect to be able to, you know, shell them off easily completely all in your first year. No problem. Like the first show you go to. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But you're right, though, that's that's a problem. Yeah, wait, everybody thinks that everybody thinks that their project is going to be one that everybody can be kicking down the doors to try to buy. And I hate to disappoint everybody. It takes a while to sell some babies, you know, and what you might think is a great project. Other people might something knows that. So just kind of the whole the flash in the pan and then in two years, they're not working with them anymore. They're gone. You know, purple spotted iguanas or something like they're doing something else. You know, you have to endure, I guess, until you see the point where there's, you know, you still have the passion for the animal and then you do it, but, you know, it'll weed everybody out. It just has to go through with cycle. True. Which sucks. Yeah. That sucks, especially, you know, like the big investment guys, you know, when you put a lot of money into it. How I put a lot of money into mine, I can't even think of how many thousands of dollars I have in them, you know, and I'm not even supposed to breed in half the stuff. So it's going to be another two, three years. So, yeah, by then they're going to be 75 cents. They'll be giving them away at Hamburg with like your free order fingers, you know, they can be cute little staple guns that I have in a drawer, whatever, you know, the best But I think it'll phase out just because of it as long as it takes to get to the breeding size. People don't, a lot of that, they don't have the, you know, the ability to wait. Right. Yeah. You think that, do you think that is what maybe insulated the, um, the Kondo world? No. It seems that they seem to be, yeah, it seems like they seem to be bulletproof when it comes to that kind of stuff. I mean, I don't know if it's just, pull this stigma about chondros though to think about this stigma. I mean, you all thought. Thank you. I mean, I, I thought of it too. And until I heard everybody like going crazy about them, I, I was just like, geez, I'm not passionate since I've been for four. And then you get them and you're like, wow, well, this isn't tough. It was, it was, you think the things the Congress was always protecting them is the stigma of a chondro will drop dead if you look at a cross side. One now to, to nothing is worth a damn unless it comes with lineage or from, you know, this dealer and this do this, I kind of filtered that stuff out and then the press tags. People were demanding such high price tags, you know, as much as I would love a chondro of this color, am I going to spend two grand on it? Probably not. So that's just where it's at. So that's what's always shielded the chondro community. So I would suggest we start some rumors about carbohydrates being evil. We're going to bump up the prices, lineage is required. And I think we should tell everyone that Savannah monitors get ready to breed at the three months of life. Because then everybody over there, exactly. So we've got to do it that way. You fine? Yeah. Yeah. I got a good idea. That's a good idea. Good idea. Oh, and for president. Damn right. But, and that's the way, and that's one of the things that's, honestly, I want to think that they've been doomed the ball python species because they can breed you around and they do not take long to reach sexual maturity. They don't take as long as some of the carpets and other pythons. So initially, they would take three years initially, but then, yeah, and then I think it's not a crazy 18 months and 300 grams and all this crazy shit. And then burn, kill the mother to get this three eggs that are going to make you money. It's an amorphous amorphous amorph and it just, they shot them, they were all racing to the bottom and they all want that. Exactly. And then you can take a room the size of mine and fill it with like 230 quart racks and cages to a rack and call it a freaking day. It became a breeding factor like you said, racing to the bottom, trying to get as fast as you can. So, and then that's honestly what I think doomed it, so, yep, yeah, it's, I don't know. It's, it's, it's, well, if you're listening to us now, it's kind of sounds like doom and gloom, but the apocalypse, the apocalypse sound horrible. Yeah. Yeah. The apocalypse. I, you know, I think it's insulated. I think there's some insulation here that's going to endure, um, whatever's coming next, I guess. Yeah. I hope. Or so I hope. Yeah. I think so. I mean, you guys got to remember too, your community is a very, very different community. Now, I don't know, I saw the ball community attack each other, the gecko community annihilate each other. You guys are different. Like, you guys are kind of, I mean, you have your little facts. Actions and clicks and whatnot. But as a whole, it's different, like it's just different. It's a very tight knit, interestingly. It's just neat. It's very neat. It's a neat community. I mean, there's, you know, a good chunk of you, 80 percent of you guys are all on the same page. And I mean, that's going to be a big difference. I mean, you're not going to have that one, you know, 50 percent of you is going to break off to the left and sell whatever albinos for 50 bucks next year. It's just not, I don't always, I don't think it's going to happen. I mean, there may be a few, don't get me wrong. There's always going to be that. But, well, what may be, when we, when we went to carpet fest, I was kind of, I didn't know how people would respond to certain things that were going on in the Morellia world at the time. And when I came out of carpet fest, I felt much more, more optimistic that things were going to be on the up and up because I think what happens is, is that you are right in as far as, if you're going to, I think that the carpet world, you know, seems to be pretty tight and as far as that if you are going to be an asshole and do shit shitty, you're going to be blackballed, you know, the only way you're selling shit is if you're selling it to people that are not really into the carpet world, you know. So if you, if you screw somebody over and you bomb a project, when the next project comes around, the time you get it, it'll be when the animals are a hundred bucks a pop. I mean, and a lot of people don't seem to think that, that you can go ahead to try to make all the money you can out of this project, but when the next one comes, you might not get it because you've pissed off that many people. So yeah, and there will be more, you know, so there will be more and people will, you know, you're absolutely right. You know, you are going to be, since you shit on a project already, why would we give you another one, you know, and to a certain extent, that's kind of sounds elitist, but I'm kind of glad that it's that, that it's set up that way because, you know, it protects people that are willing to invest in something because they, they want to work with the species, you know. The diggage is like, you know, you scrape your money together, you burn off all your snake money on one or two animals to build the project, and then you watch the project while you're raising up your two little babies get totally destroyed by people who are trying to make a buck. And that's kind of shitty. So it would be, it would be, I would enjoy it if those people the next time I paid into a project, they were barred from it. I mean, because then it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know what I noticed is that it seems like for, for certain things like, if there's multiple people that are in a project, then I've seen people just put the price at the friggin as low as you can go. Then if they're the person that is the only one with that project, then all of a sudden that's 10 grand, you know, so that just shows the mindset of those people and how they think of the market long term. It just makes me have to take a step back and say, huh, I don't know if I would want to buy something from you because you're not going to protect my, if I'm going to spend that kind of money and invest in something like that, I mean by the time I go to, to breed it, you're going to have to price in the toilet and not, not that the price is the only thing that matters, but I don't know, I mean, you kind of want to at least kind of recoup your money or pay for rats or something like that. You know what I mean? Yes. You can buy more things. Right. Make money. But make money. You're also, you're also, why, why would you down sell your animals? Like why would you take a crap on the bloodlines and your own animals? Like why would you be like that one ain't worth it, you're not worth that. He's worth this, but he's got the same bloodlines, some of the other ones out there, so, you know, why totally torpedo it? Yeah. But I don't know, that's not me, you know. I mean, I'll come back down to like, like, like being selective with your breeding too, you know what I mean? Like a lot of you guys, even, even me just kind of being young into it, I, I had two other females that I could have bred this year, but what was I going to get, you know, nothing that was anything that was going to be amazing that I wanted to see, so I didn't breed them. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably the most important part of the whole thing, you know, I, I, I, you have to forward, you've got to go forward with your breeding. I mean, what's the point of breeding something if you're just going to get mediocre shit that's just less, you know, that, yeah, pick up at some, at a jobbers table. Yeah. Yeah. You could, the ones you would see coming out of a big bin on somebody else's table, the one who's in front of a tank, yeah. You know, now I know when this male that I have is going to be good in two years, he's going to be our year is going to be ready to go, then I will breed that female because those two will make something that I want, as opposed to just breeding her because she was up the breeding size. Right. You know what I mean? But I think that comes with, that comes with experience and it comes with time in the hobby and kind of just learning how things work. Yeah. I think the wild audience. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Then to get into your audience. It's like, could I sell these at a reptile show? Could I sell my coastal jungles just straight, one normal coastal to a normal jungle at a reptile show? Yeah. So am I going to get a lot for them? Probably not. Would much rather see me take my good looking coastal and breed it to another good looking coastal? Yes. Would I get a little interested if I took my jungle and bred it to another good looking jungle? Yeah. So that's what I do. I mean, pick your battles, choose your audience, know who you're looking for. But that doesn't mean that the integrades are not popular, is somebody really going to go gaga if I take my, you know, gamma line, jag and breed it to a diamond, yes. So it's got to know what you're going for, got to know what you're looking for. It's because you bought it and they're going to breed it to another Morelia, doesn't mean the babies are going to be worth or look for really be something you'd want to have out there. I mean, take pride in your projects people. Yeah. Yeah. If it doesn't move you forward, what's the point? Yeah. It doesn't get you all jazzed up. So, I mean, if you're doing it to fill a table that's, it's just, it's not the right way to do it. No, no, it isn't. That's why. Stay home. I'm going to do that. You're going to do that. Yeah. I mean, stay home. If you want to have something to put on a table to make like, table expenses, do what I do. Go get like four corn snakes. Okay. So you'll bring day geckos. That was the key. We'll bring day geckos. Yeah. Yeah. You'll need them, you know, don't bring the tiny things that people want as pets, just as pets. Like, you know, sell baby, I sell baby corn snakes for like $10 and that's, that's it. They can pay for my damn people and they let me buy chicken fingers when I go to hamburger. Okay. So, yeah, it's it. God damn it. I can't believe you eat those chicken fingers. Seriously, I would think my name is not for a while. I really have not in a while because I got the five guys, five minutes from hand. I know. Oh, thank God. That's it. I don't eat all day. Not a thing. No. Let me go. Let me go. I'm going to do someplace afterwards. Yep. Yep. Yep. I'm going to clean up my system. It's like eating a breaded brick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Places is like a dungeon. Oh, God. Anyway. Anyway. Where else can you find a stuffed squirrel flipping people off beef jerky. What they're doing next to your table, dude. God damn. God damn sandals, chickens, and like koala bears or some shit. Like where else are you going to find that at a reptile show where there's a hundred person waiting list of awesome breeders who can't get in there because some dude selling their antlers. Puppies. Yeah. Yeah. The puppies. They sell like old veterinary equipment and like- No, that's a post-mortem place. That's a funeral place. Oh, God. It's speculums there. Speculums. Yes. Oh, God. And they had a squirrel that had been tagged under him. Eric, you didn't see that. Was there? No. No. You wouldn't close my eyes to that. They're going to say stuffed like satanically possessed baboon that sits there. Yes. Yes. Yeah, of course. It's like that show. What was that show that was shown that front of the 13th, the series from the 80s. That crazy monkey shine possessed- I have no idea what you're talking about because you're 12 years old. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah. That girl was hot too. She was. She totally. So yeah, they have all that crazy stuff like dead baby pictures from the 1800s and just weird. Yes. And I'm next to those people, you know, and I don't mind a little bit of a dark side. I don't. I really don't. Right. But that's a little much. I'm afraid. I'm afraid. I'm going to get a goddamn curse and they're going to chase me home and like eat my kids or something. So I just don't even know what to do. Like if I trip, I fall into eyelash vipers and cobras behind me. If I fall to the left, I'm getting hit by a possessed baboon. And if I fall to the right, I don't even know what to do. I'm going to get AIDS. So I have no idea what to do. Like I just hold steel and I sweat and I wait till the day's over and I run out. That's what I do. But I don't understand is like what you said, you have a wait list for this show of like a hundred breeders trying to get in there. People who I know have been dying to get in there who have so not even just I'm not even typing on bridges. I know several like tarantula and a few other all kind of stuff all kind of get in there. But absolutely. We have the taxidermy people. We have the guy over there who does nothing but buy golf clubs and converts them into hooks over here. Yeah. Yeah. They're nice. They're very nice. That's exactly how I built my hooks, but it's really not that hard, but I think they're casting. I know. And then you have these people and it's like, you're telling me you can get anybody better from here and put it in that table. You know what the next the next the next pollution is seriously going to be like a table full of rubber dicks. I know that's what's going to be there the next time I go in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all gags and lube and crayons like they don't have to kiss things. That's what's next. Everyone thought they had that one dude that sells nothing but like booing knives and then they have that one chick that makes a little miniature statues out of like, I don't know, soup can. I know it's in bullshit. I noticed that this past show there was not one you couldn't find one walnut python. There was no condros except for the ones that were on the flippers table. Now in the one that I almost bought in the one that I only got. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that was the exception. You know, like you don't see any of that kind of like, you know, upper level. Yeah. It's not high-end there. It's why you got to go to in Hamburg. Did you guys ever go there in the 90s Eric? Did you ever go there in the 90s? Yeah. Yes. That's no. I don't know if you remember that or not, but it was like that. Yeah. It was weird. I, my first show was in 2004, 2005, yeah. 2005? Wow. Yes. That's why that's why I got my first snake. Well, see, this is where I'm jaded. This is where I'm jaded because like when I got back into it, the first show that I went to go to and probably the reason that it got me back into it was the N, the, uh, the one that was in Philly, the N-A-R-B-C when it came to Italy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I walked in there. I was like, oh my God. This, you know, I remember seeing Bob Clark there and like, you know, he had like any Python you can imagine. So on his, you know, and it's just like these probably at the time there was tons of, you know, the big names in the ball Python world and all that kind of stuff. And I just didn't know who it was. And I'm walking around and I kept asking everybody, what the hell does that mean? What does that mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You for idiots. Yeah. Uh, that was a new term. That was like a pretty much a new term. Yeah. It's like, it's more like, what, yeah, yeah, but uh, I don't know. And then the first, the first one I've ended was Tinley. So I don't know. The bar's pretty high. So like that shows, but that shows awesome. I, I love Tinley. Yeah. I last year was my first year and I was just completely blown away. I can't wait. I've done hundreds of shows and I was blown away. They do it right. I mean, Potter does it right. They do it right. They treat vendors like you're the people that bring the people in, you know what I mean? And why these people come as opposed to being, you're just some shithead that's going to give me $75 for a table. Like it was just, it was a different experience, it made us for a pass to get to your table. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of different experience. Like it was. So like electricity. Yeah. It, it, it, Tinley is, and the venue is gorgeous and it's absolutely, there was nothing negative. Nothing. Nothing. That I saw. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing. Good work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's professional. You see like the, I don't know, when I was walking around in Pittsburgh. Yeah. I mean, there's, you know, the triple L's and all that kind of stuff, but I mean, it's inevitable. Yeah. But you, when I was walking around Hamburg the other day, I'm looking at some of the people and how they like display their animals. You know those, those like serial keepers, the top kind of screws on? Yeah. Yeah. That's what they have to have. I'm like, are you kidding me? Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. My favorite is one time at Hamburg I was walking around and there was this sweater box that was on its lid. I guess it was a little like $20 sweater box to get it target with like a blue lid and it had some clear packing tape around it and inside was the full grown black mama. And it's nice. Are you serious? It's like, wow. And it was probably the scariest animal I've ever seen because of what it was and what it was in. So. Yeah. Yep. That part at least got better. They used to transfer the animals back there in the room where you go and pay for your next table. Yes. Yes. You remember that? I remember a forest Cobra got loose marijuana. Yeah. Yeah. He used to bag that stuff up and that was madness madness. People used to be able to come with venomous in bags and like travel containers and crap like that. Yep. And it would put them in like the deli cups and all other bullshit in that little side room until several venomous kept like, you know, not cooperating because they're venomous. So I think they eventually changed it that everything venomous has to come in a container that will be sold in and no venomous can be used to be. You buy the cobras and you can walk around with it. So I mean, and yeah, so thank God they changed those rules. Don't mainly go viper keeper on you, dude. No, no, please don't know. But, you know, like Tinley's like one of the shows we were talking about earlier, like where it's breeders mostly and people who are very serious about the hobby and they're looking for very specific things and you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The other shows and even even the New York shows kind of this, you know, I don't even. I could see me personally only doing a couple of shows a year here real soon and Tinley being one of them. You know, I'm just kind of burned out on it and I'm sick. You know, it's to do a show like people don't realize how many days whole day and I mean, it's another show. Just the show. What do you do the day before? Like with me with even all the decor that he used to have, it'd take me 10 hours to pack. Yeah. Well, yeah, I'm going to throw out another show, Jamie, because I know you and I both vended it. Uh, oaks. Ooh, yuck. Yeah. I am 15 minutes away from oaks and I will not vended. I used to do the like the Novemberish shows, but I just last one with no heat and it was like 12 degrees in air. Like it was just stupid. The whole thing was stupid and I was like, I'm like, I just don't care. I'll go there. I'll walk around. I'll get my rats and then I'll leave because I go early enough and I know enough people that, hey, you help carrying that and then I get in. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. I think half of those people are smacked out of their minds anyway. I don't even think they'd even notice you could probably walk in there with 30 people and they won't even know. I think there was that one show where the guy was selling spent brass next to my table. I'm like, this is odd. Next to stuffed animals and like in like pedophile magazines, like who knows like special edition video games and it's like, um, all right. And then there was that will you have that one show where they put that nine foot gator who was in a dog cage on the table. No mine. They were now. I know it was in a wired dog cage and they had like two pieces of bamboo poles going through the top so they carried it between themselves on their shoulders and they just, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. And they slapped the for sale sticker on it and this gator was in Cates and people are poking at it. I'm like, some of your bleed all over my displays and we fizzed off. Any wonder, any wonder there's legislation like on a weekly basis. You know what I mean? Like it's any wonder, any wonder. Once again, everybody racing to the bottom to see who wins like it's just. Right. The people who bought it to the head of row home and Philly could live in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In a bathtub that they don't use. Yeah. Yeah. Cooking meth on their nose. You know, perfect. What they, what they told me is that they said they bought it. The people who bought it and they said they had a few and what they had done is they went down to the basement and they jack hammered the foundation to create a alligator pit. Oh, perfect. You destroyed the foundation of your house. Yeah. That sounds great. That sounds really good. That sounds really good. But I think that let me just had too many shows too fast and it just, yes, is what we have right now. It's just five years ago it was pretty awesome. And now it's just pretty dreadful and at one point we had Hamburg and then the next month was the Hatfield show along with the Oaks show. And then the next month was the Hamburg show and the Redding show. So it's like, and then they were piled on top of each other and that's not even counting the shows that are out towards Pittsburgh, which is a steel city show, the Mars show and a few others. Yeah. And then they'll, don't forget about the Carlisle show. That was there for a while. Oh, that venue was awesome by the way. I love that show. And it's like for a while there, I think two years ago, maybe a little bit more. There was a reptile show in Pennsylvania every weekend. It was ridiculous and of course, and then I still got phone calls from people trying to start up shows like one day on by my mom's place and I'm like, what the hell where? So every time someone would hand me a flyer, I'd look at it and look at him and say, are you serious? Yeah. So what do you mean? I'm like, you're, I'm like, you're retarded to get this thing away from me. Like I can't even try to go away, go away, go away before I make you go away forever. Go away. And we've been saving grace now is that a lot of these other tinier shows have died off. Yes. And we're back now to, you know, I can do a show. I can spend a month after that show growing my stock, beating my guys, getting certain animals ready and then go do a show again. If I did everything to show, my guys would never see the house. Yeah. I did that for a long time and that just was not, that's very grueling, but I, it's almost got to be on the up because it's been on the down for so long, it's got to be on the up. Yeah. Thank God for Tinley. And oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. So. It's over. I know, I know we killed it, we killed it. We started good. We just ended. Yeah. I know. He just went down quickly. Oh, and bring it back. Bring it back up. Okay. Call your dad. Get him on the phone. He's asleep. Shut up. I know he's asleep. Get him on the phone. Let's drop some science. I didn't find him. Jim from Morgan town dropping it. He absolutely loved car possessed and, you know, he was a funny man showing up funny. Yeah. Yep. He can, he can heckle me. He's having a good day. Oh God. He was too funny. Too funny. He was, he was tagging. What was the post that somebody posted up a picture? I think it was today. Maybe it was yesterday where it was like, we're all standing at the bar and he's directly done the, I think that's what we've done to pick it up. Okay. Yeah. But I can't remember what the picture said, like what they put up, but oh my God, it was hysterical. Oh yeah. Oh, I was kissing his hammer. Yeah. He was kissing his hammer. Yeah. Yeah. You and that friggin hammer. Yeah. I love that hammer. Oh, it's a little faster to the hammer. Yeah. I'm going to make you a hammer for next year. I'm going to make you a man's hammer. Yeah. Yeah. Please God, it's going to be a good one, it's going to be good, Molson. You want me to run through the closing ones and keep a little up there for what? Yeah. Bring it back on. Oh, like Dan. It's trending on a high note, damn it. Yeah. The reptile world is positive and, you know, things are going to be on the up and up. Don't worry. No fears. No. This is what you have. No. What you're doing. You'll be fine. Get the rope. We'll be out of vision tomorrow. Yeah. If that's down from the chair, it'll be okay. Alright. Go. Jamie, if you could work with any species without limitations on the planet, what would it be? On the planet. On the planet. Geez. Louise. Probably Komodo Dragons, I'd say. Alright. It's two for Komodo's because I know Andrew said Komodo's, so. I think that that would be incredible. I really dig those. I've always liked them and I know that they're just impossible, but that would be pretty cool. I imagine Eric would end up getting Komodo's one day, and that'll be what kills him because he's gone too far. No, I don't like things on legs. But I keep telling you, the retics are going to kill you and they're not going to, so it'll have to be something else. No, I had retics before. I'll be fine. Okay. I'm worried. I'm afraid. I'm a fast hobbit. I'm a fast hobbit. You know what I mean? Good. If you could all get fast work, so now Jamie, if you could go herping anywhere in the world, where would you go? Oh, that's easy. Australia 100%. Cool. Cool. You can get on the list of the NPR script for Australia. Yeah, seriously. I mean, where else can you go where you can walk any direction and you'll get killed? I mean, that's perfect. Any puddle? Any tree? Any bush? Yeah. This thing could be in it. Yeah. That's sweet. That's perfect. Australia, for sure. Cool. What part of Australia would you go to first? Who cares, dude? Wherever you can get to. Wherever. Yeah. Yeah. Give me on the damn box. Not central. Not central. That doesn't sound like any fun at all. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Pretty much a desert. Yeah. Yeah. I know a desert for this guy. Yeah. I'm thinking that Cape York is probably the best plot to go for overall. Yeah, that would be nice. Absolutely. I want you to mind checking out like New Calvonia Islands and even the Solomon Islands. I think that'd be pretty cool. I mean, as long as the dog spears and whatnot, I think it'd be cool. I do have a background in martial arts, so I probably could dodge maybe like the first one. Right. But then after that, I'd have my head on a stick somewhere. But it'd be cool. Yeah. You might have to take me to the don't over in Borneo. They have like the small thing. It's like the small version of Bigfoot, they think it's like that's funny. Yeah. You can go pet him while you're riding a chubacabra. Yeah. Yeah. Good job, Eric. Yeah. I'll put things down. Are you telling us to tell you a zoo? I mean, what are you getting at here? Just saying, you know, you might need something to smooth you over, you know? I can talk their language. You might be afraid of you, Owen, you scare people now, you know? I think you're normal people. We're giving Eric to these people as a gift, I guess, so here, what brings us out of this new world? That's awesome. All right. Jamie, can you, you want to throw out like contact information, website where it pumps somebody can get in touch with you, whether they want to talk to you about geckos or pythons? Who the hell is going to want to talk to me after this show? You're damn right. Never mind. Scrap it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, you have the NPR pump. Now we have an NPR kit. Oh. It's just razor sharp reptiles on Facebook and razor sharp reptiles.com, and that's pretty much it. The website's never updated anymore. I mean, what's the point, so I get there someday, someday, you know? Send me a message, if I feel like responding, I'll let you know what I have, if not, well, you know. Then you're not in the group. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. There we go. Well, it's been great. I like talking about the market and stuff, and as much as I'm talking about the natural history and stuff, you know, I geek out on both sides of it, and it's cool to have somebody with a different perspective to come in and give us some insight, you know? You've been through it with other species, and it's, you know, it's like everything it goes in cycles, so. Absolutely. Definitely. There's always a cycle. Definitely. Yeah. Definitely. So, I appreciate you coming on, taking time, and hanging out with us. Thank you. It was definitely cool. Thank you guys for having me on, and I'm sure I'll never be on again, but if I am... [laughter] Nah. You've always loved that. I mean, you've reached some stuff, we might talk to you. We can do a tinley recap, and it'll be positive. How about that? Yes, you can't... That's awesome. Two days after Hamburg. No, no. Yeah. True story. Yeah. Alright, we're counting you in for the tinley recap. We'll talk to you in October. Take it easy. Alright man. Take it easy. See ya. See ya. Awesome. Very, very cool. Yeah, it's not all that bad, but like I said, it's good to hear a different perspective on things, and you know, I don't know. As of recently, myself, I've kind of been taking this approach where I've been shying away from Facebook, and I've just been reading, man, as much as I can, papers, books, articles, you know. I don't know. I just don't get the same thing from Facebook. So... It's funny because it's almost like you kind of want to get back to the basics and kind of enjoy the hobby it is. Yeah. And a lot of times Facebook doesn't really do that. And it's hilarious for me because I had family that was down in South Carolina that actually just moved up back here to Pennsylvania, they're like 30 minutes away from me now. And my cousin is actually a sophomore at Penn State for biology, and he was kind of tempted to do the marine biology thing, but he and I have been talking, and now he's like all... He's been digging on the snakes for about a couple years now, but he's never really had like a connection. So I told him, like, "Do you want to come over tomorrow and clean cages and I'll walk you through stuff?" Well, what am I going to do, what am I going to learn, and I'm like, "I'm going to give you the books. Like, I'm going to give you this book. I'm going to try to go to this website. I'm going to try to read this, this, this, this, this, and this, and I'm going to talk and walk you through everything and we'll get you started." So it's almost like going through that with him is like, "I don't really want to go on Facebook today. I want to read some more of this." So it's... I can totally understand where you're coming from. It's like... Yeah. Yeah, it was weird, as me and Zach were walking around that Hamburg, you know, I think he brought this up, but I kind of had the same mindset. We both were running over to the book guy to see what he had, you know. But it's the least shop table at Hamburg, and it probably should be the most shop table. Well, actually, the unfortunate thing is that the major guy who used to bring all the books to Hamburg used to take up like three tables full of books, and eventually they realized that three tables where the books was really cutting into their profits, I guess, or something like that. So they cut him down to one or two tables, and that kind of pissed him off and he didn't do a scrap with the promoters of Hamburg and then now no longer does the show. So honest to God, a good show to get all your books at is The Habitor Grace Show, because the guy who used to bring all the books to Hamburg runs The Habitor Grace Show. Gotcha. But other than that, and the breakfast sandwiches, there's really nothing at Habitor Grace. But I digress. So... Oh, it's a good breakfast sandwich. Yes, and... I'm just a point. Yeah, I don't know. It's just weird. Like, I've been rereading the, we call it the quote unquote, "Blue Bible." It's the reproduction of boas and pythons and captivity. Some of the stuff is a little dated, but for the most part, I mean, that should be a must-have and everybody's collection of, you know, to refer back on. Another thing I've been reading as of recent is the, our good buddy Ben from, is he still with our... They split up, right? Australian addiction? Yeah. I don't think so. Isn't he kind of on his own now? Anyway, Ben... Well, they're on their own only because of the distance between, you know, one guy's operating in Virginia, the guy's operating in Utah. Right. So... They kind of are two separately run entities of all the addiction. So... Yeah. Well, I... At least that was my extent the last time I talked to him. So... He did a dissertation on ball pythons, but he used the snake keepers, you know. And if you know anything about them, they're sort of like, you know, one of the big name people when it comes to breeding ball pythons. But anyway, just reading that, there's just so much information in something like that. About just breeding pythons that you can take from that. And... I don't know. It's just... I don't think people use that stuff as much. So that's kind of what I've been doing, kind of like laying low and staying away from drama. I think Scott, Scott Borden contacted me other day and said there was some kind of drama going on. And I was like, wow, I didn't know about it. I'm just kind of glad. That's kind of good, you know. So... There was more drama. What happened with drama? I don't even know. I didn't even really go into what it was. He just said that there was kind of some kind of drama between, I guess, people in Australia, people in the States about what they had and what it was. Oh, yeah, they did more drag, crap again. No, no, no, no, anyway. New morph, I think, at this time. Whatever. All right. So we'll wrap it up. Next week we have, it's probably going to be a special time simply because Mr. Paul Harris from UK Python's, there I say the Godfather of carpet Python's pretty much in the world. I'm going to have to bring out my cigar for this episode. Because not only do we have Paul Harris, but we also have Nick mutton. So this would be the show you would not want to miss, because I'm pretty sure we'll be talking all more really. Yeah, this is going to be a carpet Python, it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, these guys. Also too, you know, Paul, Paul's really kind of a, it's crazy as it sounds, he's kind of a guy that's kind of into, he's more of a purist at heart than he is, you know, crossing things and all that kind of stuff. And it's kind of crazy that you would think that, but, you know, he has blackheads and children's and all kinds of spot, spotted's and picnies and all that kind of stuff. So there's tons of stuff that we can talk to those two guys about. Basically Australian pythons with a focus on carpets, it's going to be the, the topic. So I mean, if you have any questions, if you would like to know something from those guys, feel free to send to us. And, yep, info@pythonradio.com and we'll get that, we'll ask your question on the air. No problem. Let's see, we'll, we'll run down our list and get the heck out. So don't forget this Friday, the Southwest Carpet Fest, it's from eight o'clock, starts at eight o'clock, but one a.m. is a prehistoric pets. So if you want to find out more info, you can go over to their Facebook group page, Southwest Carpet Fest, Terrell from Designer Exotics, is the guy that's running it. So be sure to get in contact with him if you're thinking about heading out. I mean, if you're out on the West Coast and you want to get together and talk carpets or talk, you don't even have to talk carpets, really. I mean, you can talk whatever you want to talk. But if you want to geek out with fellow reptile people and have a good time, it's just the way to do it, man, so definitely, if you're on the West Coast, it's definitely something you should, should check out. Plus too, if you fly in on a Friday, you got the whole weekend to do whatever you want to do and, you know, so that's kind of why they did it that way. As far as us, the radio show, Mariah Python Radio, you can check out our website, mariahpythonradio.com. If you have any questions or comments, you can send it to info@mariahpythonradio.com. You can follow us on Facebook. You can follow us on Twitter as well at Mariah Python Radio, I'm sorry, Mariah Python. What else do we have as far as that goes? I don't have my list in front of me. Obviously, we don't have the form in front of you. And you're selling, like, your washing dishes, so screw me up. I'm not. I dropped something. I picked me on a page and I dropped it. That was not cool. Oh, very good. All right. I'm back on track. Don't worry. I'm back on track. As far as, oh, yeah, iTunes, check us out on iTunes. You can check out the show there. It's probably the best way to get it every week. And then for me, Ebemorrelia, you can go to my website, Ebemorrelia.com. I have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, all Ebemorrelia. If you want to get in contact with me, eric@ebemorrelia.com, I should be having some stuff come up available real soon. Everything is eating good. So look for that. And that's all I got. So it's all you want. Cool. You can go, do what you guys can do if you want to check me out. You can go to rogue-reptiles.com. You can make contact with me via the website if you have inquiries about any of the babies. Currently, we have a few animals left for sale, nothing too much, some brettles and some caramels that they were from last year. The tigers are all gone except for the clutch that's just coming up and they're just having their first shed now. So it's going to be a few months until they get back up and running. We did get our table back for the August Hamburg show, so for right now that's the only show we have coming up that we will be there. If you've got something you want us to bring, just let us know and we'll bring you by. Also, you can go and find rogue-reptiles on Facebook.com. Just look up rogue-reptiles on Facebook and give us a like. And there's some of the latest stuff going on over there. Other than that, that's all I got. That's all we got. So what we'll say is good night. Thank you all for listening and we're going to catch everybody next week for some more really a Python radio. Good night. Hey, Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL or as a reptile breeder and the owner of Proxox. I've been hurtin' since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry, and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of the latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news, photos and links so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. The reptile report offers powerful brandy and marketing exposure for your business and the best part is it's free. 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