Morelia Python Radio
After the fest a look back at the '15 NE Carpetfest
In this episode we will be hanging out and talking about all of the cool happenings at the 2015 NE Carpetfest.
Matt Minetola from Philly Herpetoculture and Zach Baez from Darkside Exotics will be joining us as we reflect on a great weekend.
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Hey Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL or as a reptile breeder in the owner of Proxox. I've been hurtin since I was a boy, and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breathing and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Marklin and I create the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site bringing you the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of the latest reptile news and information. I encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news, photos and links, so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. The reptile report offers powerful brandy and marketing exposure for your business, and the best part is it's free. 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Shipereptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use shipereptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. The materials needed to ship the reptile successfully, live customer support in our live, on-time, arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptilereport.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace, find that perfect pet or breeder, then visit shipreptiles.com to ship an animal anywhere in the United States. We are your one-stop shop for everything reptile related. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Good evening, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Moralia Python Radio. We are back from the Northeast Carpet Fest. We're going to be talking about it all tonight, about the great weekend. We're going to be joined by a couple of our good friends. This is Zach Baez from Dark Side Exotics and Matt Minitola from Philly Herpeta Culture. But first, I want to send that a big thanks to our very own Owen McIntyre for opening up his home. And hosting the 2015 Northeast Carpet Fest. Wow, that was cool. It was awesome. It was a freaking blast. It was so cool. And I thought I'd never be sick of actually showing people the inside of my snake room. But by the end of the day, I think I'd turn to someone who said, "If I had to point out that that's an owl sight on one more goddamn time, I'm done." But it was so much fun and it was so cool. And having everybody here running the auction went great. We fired up the grill, fired great. There's tons and tons and tons of food to the point where I'm not going to need to go food shopping for like eons. There's enough food and alcohol in my house that I could probably run another small party out of it. Dear God. Yeah, food was on point this year. I mean, we've been doing this since 2012. And it seems that every year, we iron out the details. And I don't know if the planets were aligned this year or I don't know what it was, but just a good vibe and a good time and everything to seem to be firing on all cylinders. I mean, food was ready. Everybody brought food. I mean, good lord. You know, slopsters and everything it clams. Mike bought clams. Yeah. It's just crazy. Just the amount of food and alcohol that was there. I tried all day to get drunk on Saturday, but it just didn't seem to work. It seems to be like everything just fired correctly and everything just went way better than expected. I absolutely loved it. Yeah. Yeah, it was a good time. Let's, so tonight we're trying something for the first time. I don't know if people use it tonight as much as they would say when a guest is on here and they want to necessarily, you know, ask the question or something and they don't want to call it. But we're going to try it. The calling number is what now? Yes, it is three, four, seven, two, one, five, seven, three, five, nine. Let's get these guys clicked on. What? My father just took the set around the corner going, so what's going on and then he ran back upstairs. So I don't know what you're trying to do. Let me ask you a question. Is his number a 484 area code? Yes. Okay. No, no, no, no. We're going to have Jim from Morgantown. Don't we do not? Morgantown is going to drop some knowledge on us, I'm sure. Is that you, Jim? Yes, that's all. I can hear you on different levels of the house. Oh, I called him off guard. Oh, he dropped speaking into the phone. Yeah. Yeah, he hung up. He got scared. You made him nervous. I did, I'm sorry. He may come back. Probably one of my most favorite memories of Carba Fest was being down at the bar doing picklebacks, which is horrible. They were awesome. Come on, Matt. They were awesome. Oh, God. First off, I despise pickle. So I didn't know what the hell was going on. You guys are just like, "Take this, take this, drink that, drink this." Yeah. But, oh. There's still a Gatorade bottle of pickle juice sitting on. That's what that is. I didn't know what the hell that was sitting on the bar. But that is clearly a Gatorade bottle filled with pickle juice. Who left that here? We did. Oh, wait. Here he is. He's back. Hold on. Jim's going to drop some knowledge for us. Jim from Morgantown. Here he is. Yes. Hey, what's going on? I'm sorry. I dropped the fucking Cam here through it and the toilet there. My fault. No worries. You're quite a celebrity. No, I don't think so. Fair enough. So how did you like Carpetfest? You know, I just want to say I thought everybody I met at Carpetfest was just very outstanding, very nice, and I enjoyed myself immensely, and I just woke up. Oh, all right. Something about summer wheat beers in me. I don't know what it's all about, but you know, I thought I only could have made some more deals, so it's more snakes if he'd have listened to me about the coupon and it'd do for one thing, but he wouldn't do it. You were on there. Yeah. Yeah. I had to make the announcement that any deals made with Jim and this haker were no one, boy. This is Chris. It's a goddamn cash business. Get over it. What about my coupon, man? No. No. No. No. No coupon. A goddamn cash business. I'm going to ask you what's going on here. You know? It's a blue light. Special. There's no one. No. No. No. You run the business for a profit. I know it's a horrifying thing to say, son, but that's the American way. Jesus Christ. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. It was great. It was nice meeting a lot of people. I enjoyed everybody I met and, you know, it was a good time and I can't wait until next year because no matter where it is, I'm going to show up. I love it. Yeah. Good stuff. I'm still a little concerned about the shots in the pickle juice. I had no idea what that was all about, but whatever. No, no. That was, that just kind of happened. Oh, and by that time, you would drop the rum and coke three times. Stop it. I had it. It's my car. I'll do another talk. I won't do it. So. Yeah. Technically. It's not fair. That's not fair. I wouldn't have to trap door on his cup. Oh, listen. Oh, listen. The Pittsburgh Steelers called. You're not returning points this year because you can't hold on to the goddamn thing. Oh, my God. Yeah. No. Hey, listen, you guys have a great show. It's a little bit of an awful lot of your time. Okay. It was great. It was great. My professors, great meeting the people. And it was great seeing everybody and, you know, have a great time. All right. All right. There we go. He arrived at the show and he's walking around. He keeps pointing at people and goes, "Is this a guy you do the show with?" I'm like, "No. Is this guy you show?" I'm like, "No." But. It's like that one there. It's a hobbit in the corner. That one. No. There you go. JFM dropping knowledge. She's dropping knowledge. I like it. Oh, it's great. You know. And he can better awful quiet, man. They're just kind of like really leaving click them on yet. Oh, what? Yeah, they're on. They're live. I didn't know I was on. Yeah. I didn't know. I was on either. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You went to pickle juice. Can we get to the bottom of that? That's my. God damn it. Pickle back was pretty good. That was good, man. I'm with you, Zach. That was pretty good. Although I like, I was looking up and I think the version when you eat a pickle afterwards instead of the juice, I think I probably get a better idea. I think I'd like that more. I need pickle. I just bought it because I thought I like whiskey straight, but I had it one negative bar and I had a bunch of them. And if anyone doesn't like whiskey, it goes down real smooth with the pickled juice. So I thought it'd be something cool, but Ellen can't handle it. Oh, I don't know what they're doing with pickle juice. Wow. First few minutes in. I thought, I thought through experience, corneal blood breeders, put shy away from my monster this week. You guys ran from her. Oh, well. I haven't seen a red blood that while since I seem like a crazy wild caught one. That thing. I'm going to have my work. Lime didn't even recognize it. Lime was getting my call card. And I'm just like, Oh, I got my hands full. So I'm hoping I can do something with that. You know, I'm sure I'll comment down. I don't know what you're doing. You must be talent hooking it or I don't know what you're doing. The purchase is in there. You've got purchase. Yeah. You got a purchase in a 41 court with a blood. Yeah. That's what my phone was like. That's awesome. It was so funny. Lime tried to go. Lime tried to go pick it up. But at that point, it was like, it took a big shit. It was swimming. It's a little flail. Oh, I got it. It was so funny. I'm just. Well, I was like, never mind. I'm just going to land it because it was his animal. So he was probably like, Oh, you're probably just freaking it out. And I'm going to do it. I didn't do it. And I would have just gotten nailed completely probably. But that thing just shot up now. I haven't seen one just shoot around with its mouth open and wave like that for like two minutes in forever. It was it was going. It was going crazy. Oh, it was. The thing of it is is that Owen makes this pack when his animals when they come into his house. If he talks bad about him on the show, then they don't do good. I would just say I would assume you're going to keep it because everything in your room pretty much plays anyway. So that's probably what it was. It was not going after me. I have a lot of the things that bit me. And now I just want to send her over your places where you can just like text me later. This is like, Oh, it's your blood is like when absolutely eight show me today. I mean, they don't have some fun. Because then I'm going to add I would know I'm a bow of reader. Yeah, that's true. This is true. That's great. What kind of bow is you breathing this year, Owen? No, I don't know. Robert. Robert's insane. Rubber bow is. Isn't that what we decided like throughout all of us are like, those are horrible. I think pretty much decided that rubber bow is suck, but that beyond me. Yeah, I'm about. Oh, my goodness. Well, I don't know why I have rosy sandbows written down in my book here, but I do for some reason. Do you want rosy sandbows? No, I don't. I don't know why it's in my notes written. It's kind of weird. I'm trying to pick him up from out for Owen from somebody. Yeah, yeah. I have to pick him up. Yeah, I have to pick him up. Yeah, I got to pick him up for Owen from somebody. Yeah, yeah. I have to pick him up for Owen from somebody. Yeah. 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I don't think I saw you till the auction. That was one of those moments there. I like how we did a little bit on the later side. It worked out well. Yeah. It was pretty good. Like I said, the weather was perfect. It was pretty cool to hang out with, to be able to chill with Bill. He's an awesome guy. I got a shower of Bill in my house. I'm like, "Oh, hi, Bill. What are you doing here?" It was really cool to have him there. I'm wearing his t-shirt right now. I forgot to grab one of those. The one thing that I would say is going pre-Carpetfest, you know, you guys know that I was stressed out about bullshit that's going on and just being in this pod class weekly. You sort of have to put yourself in the middle of things sometimes. It can get very disheartening at some points. But when you go to something like this and you hang out with people and you get to talk to them and I don't know, it gets you excited again. It gets you excited about the people and the hobby and just pumped up overall and wanting to be a part of the community. There were things that we didn't agree on with people there. But just the conversations that we had were awesome. And then it was good to talk about things other than Snakes. Me and Jamie were talking music for a while, which was pretty cool. We're both guitar geeks. I think he's a little more than me. I didn't think there was anybody that was more of a geek about guitars than me. Apparently he has this almost savant way of knowing every piece of equipment and what it does. It was nuts. But that was really cool. I don't know. I don't know how you guys felt, but I felt pumped up. I got to talk to Buddy for a while because he's in a similar position. I kind of look up to him and Bill, they've been doing this a lot longer than I have. I always admire the way that they just kind of keep their cool and kind of keep out of nonsense. If something gets too out of line, they just kind of say their piece and roll out. But the biggest thing that I took from him after, I think, man, we must have talked for a close to an hour. The biggest thing I took from him was he said that don't let others define what the hobby is to you. That was pretty awesome. I don't know. What about you guys? Did you hook up with somebody that you didn't think you would? It was pretty cool that Matt and Lon came up and I think that everybody was into shorttails and blunts. They were going nuts. It seemed like a lot of people had some interest when they were asking questions. Your sales are going to be up. At least you're going to have a lot of cool carpets or chondras this year. Yeah, a lot of good tricks. Me and Bill were already swapping some stuff. That's pretty cool. It seems like Bill jumped in. He took all the borneos in the auction. It was a lot of fun. I wish I bounced around a little bit more in unfamiliar territory. Of course, Lon a lot. Jamie, I've been talking to him at shows. I've been talking to him a lot. Just bouncing around. I talk with Buddy and Bill good amount and that kind of stuff. It was a lot of fun. Just talking with Buddy again and Bill. Like you said, they have a... It doesn't seem like anything can bother them. It just seems so laid back. They seem to have a real positive spin on everything and have something good to say. This is how I would handle it and you just walk away saying that's a pretty good idea. I heard you talking to Buddy for a while. I heard some of the things he was saying and it was pretty good stuff. Yeah. Absolutely. I think a lot of people don't understand. It's important that I think that the carpets that says now become. I think it's become a very important part of the community in and of itself. Things are set at carpets that aren't set online. Things are set at carpets that aren't talked about publicly or whatever. It's almost like everybody gets a... We'll come together with a problem and we'll get a consensus of that problem at carpets a lot of times. This is happening this year. What's up with this? Oh, well, this is the way I feel about it. Oh, this is the way I feel about it too. Everybody in agreement with the way we feel about this? Yeah, pretty much. Okay, well, this is how we're going to handle it. That type of stuff you don't get online. You don't get that type of consensus, really, where people are open. And then libations, of course. You know what I mean? We've got to allow people to speak their mind. And so you get a lot of people that have been dying to say something and finally have said it or who I really wanted to talk about something and feel like now that they're in a private place where they can talk people in one-on-one and they can do that. And so I think that's the reason why carpets, if so important, is that it's healthy for the community to get all that stuff out and to, you know, break bread with one another and that whole thing, you know. Keep a little beef, like, I don't like more if you like more. All that kind of just totally goes away. And that doesn't matter. And what you keep, what I keep, it just really does not matter. It really just comes back to, you know, who you're friends with and who you're on for. Like, it really doesn't matter when you're breaking lobsters together, you know. It's just not the same, you know. You know, when you do a pickle-backs, you know, like, it doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It's silly. It puts everything into perspective and, you know, it's almost like, I think it's the same way, you know, it's kind of the same way. It's not really as much because it's the whole telling, you know. It's crazy. It's too hectic to really sit down and talk to one another. But, you know, but even that, you know, every time I leave a teller or anything, any time I leave carpets, I always feel, you know, they're wrapped up and enthused about what I love, you know. Because sometimes you get in this rut, the drama on Facebook, you know, the only way most of us communicate with each other is through Facebook and through online and things are said that a lot of people don't mean or you may have taken something some other way or whatever. Or it just gets too rigid that you're tired of it and you're still on Facebook for a while. Well, guess what? That's your connection to the community that you're no longer a part of. And so, when these events happen, you get to reconnect and that's, I mean, that's a big thing. People that, I mean, people came here that weren't on Facebook, you know what I mean? We met quite a few guys. They're like, "Oh, I barely go on Facebook. I'm not on there," or whatever, and you're like, "Okay, cool." And that means I would have never talked to you as we will be coming here, you know. I would have made this connection. And so that's why, like, I try to help you. I mean, there is excuse for not coming, but really if you were doing anything else, but not there on that day, for whatever reason, because you're too shy or get over it and get there, you have to, I think it's important. It really is important. It's worth every penny. It takes you to get out there. It's worth your time. I mean, it's just, it's just a really great time. I mean, you'll come out of there. It may cost you more money, because I'll tell you what, I came home and I'm like, "Oh man, I got to buy that new rack. I've been waiting on," you know. If you get all hyped up, you want to, you just want to continue to chase that kind of, that goal that you have, you know, come out of the carpet set. And that's the key. It's positive. It's 100% positive. It's nothing negative about it. 100% positive. Yeah, I mean, I always try to put positive spins on things, and I try to surround myself with positive people, and it's not always easy to do, you know. I see, like, you know, Matt, just for you, I see how you are in the, you know, in the short-tail world, and you're kind of that same kind of guy. I think I hear a lot of like feedback from other people about how they say that, you know, you put your two cents in when need be, but for the most part, you're drama-free. And, you know, you're there to educate people and help people and, you know, build buddies like that. And I think, I don't know, I think, I think most of the, everybody that I was there and talked to, I think they're on the same page. You know, it's not, all that bullshit is kind of put to the side. And, you know, you're there to just geek out about what you really did. I mean, come on, man. You know, like, I think the difference with Tinley is, is that you're so geared to sell snakes, you know, or show off your stuff that you've been working on for years or however long that you've been doing it. And, you know, you're really focused on that. With Carpetfest, the idea is you're kind of just chilling, man. You're just talking to people and the conversation couldn't go, you know, wherever the conversation goes. Maybe you talk about snakes, maybe you talk about something else. But, it's just, you know, I don't know. That's one of the, the added benefits to, to hang out with people. Because, I don't know about you guys, but when I'm out with my family, my friends outside of the snake world, they don't want to hear about snakes. You know, they're like, "Shut the hell up, man." So, yeah, it's, you're, you're definitely late about that. Like, I do like the if the big show after atmosphere, it's, it's not quite as like intimate, I guess you could say. It's, it's more party time, but you do get to do things. And we used to, I used to go to Daytona back when it was a lot better. Like, um, I'm going to say like the O four, maybe O four to 2009 stretch. Um, people from the blood defense form used to get together. We did it a few years and it was only, I think it only lasted a few years. We did it, but it was 10, 15, maybe 20 people sometimes. And it was just a good bit of night, but even just that was a lot better. It's, it's, you're putting faces to the people you talk to on the forum. And, you know, you, you start talking about life. You're getting more into just, you know, you're talking about snakes. You're talking about life. It's not just about sales and. It was just, it was a good thing. And I think even people that might not have loved each other on the forum, no one fall. And you might have met that person and realized it's just petty. Why I might not like that person or feel that way about that person. You know, as so carpet fest is definitely cool for that. It's so cool that I'm copying off you somewhat, not doing a blood test. And you're doing a small barbecue at my house, which I invited all you guys to. Just for some reptile breeders, most of them are people I know from short tails. I invite the people that I know ain't going to make it. I just threw them an invite anyway. Don't expect them to fly down like a lot of other people did. But yeah, it's definitely a cool idea. And I'm sure I'm going to be at every, at least Northeast carpet fest. Maybe you make some other ones and hopefully. It kept his own or other just reptile people in general. If there's a little something else to do, you know, it's easy to get people to get together. For reptile shows because you're, you're making money. I'd say what you guys do is awesome because it's hard to get people to come out, drive three, four hours away, fly in. You're going, I told people are like, wow, you, you, a guy from Texas. Blue wind guys from Maryland are driving all, you know, three, four hours away to go to a barbecue with a bunch of other breeders. And like it's, it's cool. And people eat like, you know, outside is even going, I don't know, man. I thought we'd do that. So it's cool that you're turning out of like that. And that you've got, I mean, there's a whole bunch of other carpet fest. So it's, it's catching on. And hopefully they're just as big. And like I said, I don't think I'll be able to make any of them this year, but maybe next year. Oh, excuse me. Maybe next year, I'll be able to make some more. And hopefully they're going to be placed on Chester short path fest. Who knows, you know, in the making and, and it could be, it could be fun. And like I said, I think it was a really, really cool thing you guys did. And the other person on the other cool thing is, yeah, at a reptile show, you're there in self snakes. But I would imagine most of the time you're going to be at one of the breeders houses and you get to see somebody's collection up close and personal. And you know, in collections, could he also, and I'm sure everyone else can agree because he has damn near every python. So it's a lot of, it's a lot of fun. You're going to see a lot of things you don't get there commonly see, you know, so it was definitely cool. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and you do have quite a, quite a collection of. Thank you. Python's. I'm, I'm a person. I mean, I'm a bow. I'm sorry. Oh, thank you. There it is. You had a few place on. It was a. Oh, man. For a moment, Matt was nice. So that's over. We can get back to our lives. You know, I see a bunch of royals. That's all I see. Oh. Oh, that's quite in words. I'm also kind of glad that. I know that everybody got to see all the animals or most of the animals in the snake room. And I know Romulus pretty much was outside of his cage for like two hours. I mean, I handed him off to Zack and then I lost him for, you know, no. I kept on out. Don't worry. I saw him in drag. I saw him and Zach drinking and eating chicken, dude. I'm telling you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah. I think I'm trying to cut a couple shots. Yeah. You might. There's loopy. But I'm pretty sure I'm like, I told you guys beforehand, I'm like, don't let anybody steal myself. Yeah, it was, it was nice to have everybody here. It was nice to have everybody, you know, all the stuff moving around. I mean, just the interactions between everybody that there were some hilarious stuff going on. I mean, Scott Borden shows up with sweet tea and sweet tea mixed with moonshine. And then we realized that none of it is labeled. And I'm like, I am not going to get like curtain skid drunk off moonshine. We have to label it. And then they get there, Mike and his kids, and Mike's wife, Allison goes, well, we could have, you know, given them a drink or two, knocked them out and made this day really fun. I'm like, oh, stop that. You're fine. Yeah. Yeah. The day was just full of just laps and just fun. But by the end of the day, I was so exhausted. I hit, I hit my pillow, hit my bed. I slept and, like, apparently, like, one left before I woke up. I mean, a bunch of stuff I've been moving on going on before I even got out of my room. And it wasn't even over with just Saturday. So. Yeah. We have, we have our good friend, Bill, on the line here. Hey, Bill. Guys. How you doing? What a party. Yeah. Yeah. I woke up the next morning feeling probably how Zach looked. Wait a minute. What does that even mean? I think you know what I mean. Let me tell you what happened. I left that party at like three o'clock in the morning and I drove to my hotel room and I set my alarm for, like, eight o'clock in the morning because that's when my flight, my flight took off. At, like, 10, 30 or 11. I got to return the rental car and all that. So I get up at eight o'clock just in a coma. I get in the shower. I get out. I start putting my clothes on and I get an email from the airlines that says my flight has been delayed two and a half hours. Well, I was like, yes. Yeah. Right back in bed, man. Awesome. Yeah. So what do you think, Bill? Man, it was incredible. You know, I got to Owen's house at noon on Saturday, three hours, three, three hours pre and like before I know it. I mean, it's like, it's three o'clock in the morning. Yeah. I mean, I just blocked. Man, this is a snap in an instant. It was, it was over, but man, it was great. I just got started listening a few minutes ago, but yeah, you guys talked about the people, the food and man, it just, I don't see how it could have been any better, the weather, Owen's new place. Man, just all the stars lined up. It seemed like. Yeah. So when's the, the condo fest? It needs to be soon. The problem is all the actions on the east coast. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, that's true. I figured that out, but that's okay. I don't mind traveling. Yeah. I was glad that you made it out because, you know, like I said, it's cool, you know, to hang out to talk and, you know, just to get to talk to people and get their, get their opinions on things and how they feel about it. It's just a, it's just a better atmosphere because, you know, like Zach said earlier, you try to get your point across sometimes online and it really doesn't maybe come across the way you wanted to, or maybe, you know, people take it a different way. But I figured that out. I figured that out. I figured that out at ICAS, Eric, you know, that was the first time I kind of ventured away from home and I got to meet and talk in person, the people that I'd known for some of them a decade. And it never met them in person, just known forums online or whatever. But once you go and you do it once and you figure out in just a few hours how you can really solidify those relationships with those people, it's, you know, and then you're just hooked. And that's kind of what carpet fest was for me, you know, for a lot of people up there that I've just known mine primarily online or in reptile communities. So I'd encourage people to do it. It's worth it. It's worth the two days. You know, it's all it is. It's two days out of your life and it's a few hundred bucks to get there and, you know, then just do it. It's the price of a jack, you know, it's the price of one cage. One cage. Right. Right. And you know, that's my argument to a lot of people. It's like, you know, they don't mind dropping 500 bucks on a snake, 500 bucks on a plane ticket to go meet other snake nerds. Nope, too much. Yeah. But here's the thing, even if even if you were looking at it from the aspect of, you know, you're, let's say you're approaching this as a business type of thing. I mean, this is your chance to, you know, to mingle to put your name out there for people to meet you to put a name with a face, you know. Yeah, network, man, you got a network, especially in this. I mean, if nobody knows who you are, I was taught this a long, long time ago, when I came into this, you know, morality world and, and Owen wanted to kill me. I did. I did. That's perfect. One you did. It was, it was real simple. It's like you can have the nicest snake in the world, but if people don't know you, they ain't buying a snake from you. You know, it's just that simple. You know, just not, you know, because if they're spending high dollars, you know, somebody isn't going to hand over $5,000 to you if they don't know who the hell you are. You know, if you've never done business with people. I don't know. I look at as, as a kind of, you know, investment that's kind of worth it in the long, in the long run, you know. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, man, it's just, it's just even though, I mean, I agree with that, but just getting to know the people. I mean, like, I talked to, to Mike Curtin certainly didn't know him or have the relationship to have with, you know, you use Hack and Owen just from online stuff. But, you know, then I get to meet Mike Curtin and his family and, and not that it wasn't that I didn't like Mike Curtin. I just didn't know him. You know, he brings this incredible family there and we just have a great time. And now I've been able to put all those things, those little pieces I've known about Mike for a long time. Now I'm able to just solidify it, put it all together and go, you know, man, you've got to go on on. You've got to great animals and great family. I would have never, you know, just stuff like that. Just stuff like that. Mike sat down on top of a cooler and just started, like, shocking clams for everybody. Just out of the blue, we just sat down and started doing it. So, yeah, and he's an awesome guy. He was happy as can be just doing that. So, yeah. Yeah, he bought a lot of the food. He bought a lot of the food too, right? He didn't, he didn't, he didn't. Just sitting there, it seemed like he was just working, man, and he was having a good time. Yeah, he was popping clams open and doing all this stuff, and then they brought more clams that they cooked in the oven. So, and even then the boys, you know, there was a bunch of roll on your kitchen. Yeah, it was hot, it was hot, it was hot, it was hot, it was hot in your kitchen. And his wife was working and cooking the whole time. Yeah, definitely crazy. Just good people, good people. Is that, did you tell them we almost got arrested that night? Bill, Bill, Bill, you're a professional. I don't know if you want to throw that out there, you know. I don't know if you want to throw that out there, you know. So, Bill tells me that, Bill tells me that he's got this, you know, challenger sitting outside of their way. Whoa, whoa, what do you mean you have a challenger? Apparently, he rented one to get up to Garvey's, which I thought was a genius idea, because if you've got to come, come and style, you know what I mean? Bill's a fool, no man. So, I was like, "Oh man, I want to check it out." So, we went out there, popped the hood, took a look around, and then of course he goes sticking for a spin. I'm like, "I don't know, man, we've been kind, I don't know, I was a little lazy, I don't know if we should go taking for a spin." You know, I was feeling good, but I don't know, so fine, let's do it, let's do it, it's good. So, we jump in, this guy practically peels on, peels out of the corner, out of the parking spot. Goes around the corner, we flyin' down those little country roads, oh my goodness, oh, it was crazy, it was crazy. I just think that's okay, oh, we had so much fun. And then, go ahead, go ahead. All right, so, we started sloping, I was like, "All right, all right, I'm like, Bill, we got to slow down, buddy." You know what I mean, the hero here, there's a sense of there in ya, and then all this sort of building test, he's like, "Zach, stop being a pussy, I'll just fight." [laughter] I lost it, I was craggin', I was like, "Oh my God, this is the best experience ever." So, we finally slowed that, because we understand, so I'm kinda freaking out. He slows it down, we're cruisin', all of a sudden, there's a guy like behind his tail, and it's like real close. I'm lookin' like, "Wow, he's like way too close, it's gotta be a cop." There's gotta be a cop, it's gotta be a cop, I'm lookin', I'm lookin', I'm lookin', I can't really see. And I'm like, "We gotta pull over, we gotta pull over, because this is letting pass, because if you stay behind us for long enough, you may just find us suspicious and pull us over anyway." So, I was like, "Let's just pull over." And then finally, Bill pulled over, we see him turn, yet, in fact, was a cop, oh my God, I was-- [laughter] Who's most there? Who's most there? I heard those flying up and down those streets, I mean, I don't know, I don't know. It was wild, I was like, "Bill, just take you home, man." This was two of-- I feel they drove him in the morning, way out of the ticket. Yeah. I feel like Bill would have got his way out of the ticket, I think he could have talked his way out of it if he got-- Yeah, yeah, I think yeah. That was that kind of-- And you know what, that's what Bill said, he's like, "That don't worry, if they pull us over, I got this." I'm like, "I don't know what your experience has been, what comes from my experience has been." A lot of experience has been a little bit different, Bill, wouldn't that come right? [laughter] Oh, he's different! Oh, but I don't know. I just wanted to spend another week in Pennsylvania, that's all. Yeah, yeah. That's exactly what it is, yeah. No, but we end up getting back, and I parallel parked it for him, you know, I used my little Philadelphia skills, I parallel parked that bad boy. Yeah, it was tight, by that time. Yep, we put it to rest, we put it to rest, and yeah, that was good. Down to our bushes, and we went inside and drank more. Pretend like nothing happened. Exactly. Oh, that's funny. Owen lives in the middle of nowhere, by the way, so. He does, he does. There's nothing going on there. There's nothing around it, there's not a wallop or miles. Yeah, which is quite nice, but... That's good. Yeah. I know, well, I have this story, so... The first night we get there, Owen says, well, I tell him, we're trying to figure out sleeping spots. And this is the first time, well, first of all, I'm usually the young guy, but now I'm the old guy, and I pull rank. I was like, man, I get to pull out my old guy card, and I was like, well, I'm taking a bit. So I get in this bed, and, you know, Mike's in the room with me, he's on the mattress. I'm like one of those air mattresses things, and you can't move on this bed without it making a noise. So I feel like the guy at the movie theater that's trying to open a bag of chips when it's like, everything's real quiet. And I'm like, oh, my God, this house, there's nothing in this house. There's not a sound, not a peep, nothing. And I'm like, I just breathe, and it's like crazy. And anywhere I turn, anywhere I moved, oh, man, it was crazy. I couldn't get comfortable at all, but I should have slept on the air mattress, but that's funny, though. And then one of the people that I wanted to mention was I come inside into Owen's dining room, and I'm standing there, and there's Buddy, and he's talking to this guy, his name is Matthew Moyle. And he's got his phone out, and he's showing pictures of carpets. Well, you start showing pictures of carpet pythons, I'm all in. You know, I got my ears. I'm like, oh, this is a guy doing over here, you know? And he just fascinated the hell out of me, man. I told him he has to come on the show because he has so many backstories of things. Oh, my God, the guy blew my mind. It was mind-blown. It was probably the best guy I talked to the whole thing, because he's telling me about carpets coming into the country, and who bred what, and back in the days. I mean, when I was talking to him, one of the things that I took from him, the conversation was that today, it's almost like young helpers or people that are getting into it kind of take for granted something like a water python or an olive python, or a walnut or something like that. You know, back in the day, they didn't know how to breed this stuff, you know what I mean? They had no clue. And just to get it to, he was telling me that, you know, just to get it to copulate, you know, they'd go to like these little get-togethers, like hurt meetings or whatever. And, you know, one year they would be saying, oh, yeah, they locked up, you know? That was like, oh, success. And a week it pissed off if like, you know, we have an 18-egg clutch and one of the eggs goes bad. I don't know. It really put things in perspective for me because, you know, I think like how much work that these species that we have is here, how much work went into them and getting them here and getting to the level that we're at now. I don't know. I think that we really should take a step back and make sure that we preserve those kind of things. And the biggest, the other thing is that he has a lot of stories that people need to know, you know? And he told me that there'll be a time when he'll be able to come on and talk to us. But, you know, it was really good. I mean, he was talking to me about breeding the first set of all of us out of Australia. I'm like, hey, that's, I'm like, I would like you to tell me everything because next year might be my first year with him. So, it was definitely cool to have him go through his stuff. I mean, there was no internet. My understanding is his collection's incredible. You know, he's an old school guy. He's not posting pictures on Facebook. He, you know, I don't know if he's involved in any forms. But John Martin told me that his collection is unbelievable. Yeah, he told me he works with anterica. He works with Bozo, and so, you know. Rosie Bozo. That's why I wrote it out. No wonder he was there. Yeah, exactly. You know, and the biggest honor for me was, the biggest honor for me was is that he said that he loves the podcast. I mean, here's an old school guy who I don't even know an ounce of what this guy knows or experienced. And he's saying that he likes to show and listens to it as he cleans shit every week. So, you're probably cleaning shit tomorrow or whatever. Hey, Matthew, here's a shot out for you. Matthew. But, yeah, I don't know who's taught me and buddy were particularly interested in his anterica perthensis. We were wanting to, he says, "Why the hell you want that, man?" They're so small, you know. But, I don't know, he breeds anulated boas, a fari, akernia. That's right up your alley, Zach. Yeah, I talked to him for like a good, it felt like two hours ago. I don't know. He came up to me. He's like, "Sick, you're the skink guy." I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I think that'd be me." You know, he was like, "So, he was talking to me about gurnia and his stokes, skinks. And, you know, he really wants hosmer eye. And now, you know, he was talking about how he was bringing blue tongues back in the day. He had, like, a collection of over 50 of them and, you know, everything else. And he was wanting a few people to have had success with them in the states back in the day. And all that. I mean, it was just like, "Oh, hey, you know, he was just going off about all this stuff he was doing and all these experiences." And I was like, "Ockett was just this guy all day with this stuff." I mean, it was just, you know, that's, I think that's the kind of experience that we all hope to have. Yeah, when we go to bed. Yeah, when you go to carbon fest, that's right. Yeah. We hope that we run into, you know, all these old school guys are going to schools on everything we taught me now, you know. And so, you know, I asked them about, you know, parasite treatment and things like that. And because, you know, there's hundreds of different ways to treat your animal with panic here. I was like, "Well, how do you go about it?" "Well, you do it like business." They'd say, "Well, somebody told me to do it this way." They're like, "I know, that's what you do like that." I'm like, "I don't know, this is what I'm going to be doing." So, like, it was really cool to get that guy who's had, you know, all that experience to sit down and you could literally pick his brain for a while. And that's what I was about. He was picking my brain, too. You know, he sat to talk to me. So, that was kind of cool. You know, I was like, "Oh, wow, all right, well, let's talk." So, it was, yeah, it was just, it was wild. I was like, "Well, honey, first of all, honey even know who I am." "Oh, they shot you all a towel on Eric's show." I was like, "Okay." That's the NPR bump. Yeah, the NPR bump. We love that bump. So, yeah, it was just really funny, you know. It was just kind of, like, kind of ironic, you know. It was just weird. It was just weird, but it was really cool. It was, the whole experience was cool. And, you know, I was a little tipsy at that point, but I remember the whole... The middle. I remember the last. I remember the last. I remember the last. I do enjoy it when Zach gets drunk because he gets more and more, you know, cliched, you know, Philly, and it's like, he's acting, gets deeper. He starts getting all his problems. He's got some, you know, different words. It's so much more enjoyable. So... Yeah, and I got a little bit more Hispanic, like, always like, you know, a bunch of dance moves and I get real cuddly. It's actually, yeah, I get real affectionate. Then I run to the family. But, no, we had a... We had a good time, though. I mean, we really did. I mean, I got to tell you, though. I was pressing. Yeah. I'm crashing. One night. I'm like, what? Yeah, Bill was no joke. I remember, I went downstairs. I think to plug my phone into the charger, it's in the bar downstairs because most people were outside. I went downstairs and there's Bill at the bar, opening up the Grey Goose, just chilling back. I'm like, "But what are you doing?" He's like, "I'm just going to start Zach." I was like, "Jack, come on!" He's cracking over the whole bottom of Grey Goose. I was about to get real. He's like, "Ah, it's just good times." So, Owen got into the hard stuff before I did. I did. And it ended poorly. That's for sure. But Bill gets there at 12 o'clock, right? We all just kind of woke up because we were kind of up late that night, you know, the night before. Bill comes in and he's like, he's like, "So, uh, back to me a beer." I'm like, "Oh my God, is it kind of early for that?" It's 12 o'clock, man. It's starting time. Oh, man. Here we go. I didn't have to twist your arm that hard, Zach. No, you didn't. No, you didn't. I was like, "Yeah." Yes. It was too much fun. Oh, it was too much. But, you know, I don't think anybody got sick. I don't think anybody over drank. I think, you know, we were all, I did because we were eating so much that, you know, it was good. You know, nobody... No, man. It was the pickled juice. Yeah, it was the pickled juice. Yeah, that's going to get thrown out. That's what I got over the phone. That was a good thing. Keeps hydrant. I didn't see anyone out of hand. You know, you always... I get not worried about that. You don't know how everybody parties, so... Everybody seems pretty good. I mean, I had to still represent, because I play them on driving home. I think I left the 145. I left the 145. It was about an hour and ten minute drive home, and then... I got home, tired as home, and then I remembered. I had feeders that day, and I want the seeds. You know, I have all the hats from Borneo's. So I had to go see out there and drop like 70 hoppers in with the Borneo's at night's time. You've been... So I went ahead. It's been a bit in the morning. Luckily, most things were already eating, so I didn't have to worry too much. But yeah, so... I don't know, since it was quite professed, I guess, that kept me in the spirits of like, "I'm tired, but I should go feed my snakes." I knew that party I think I was just went to bed. These things I just talked about for like, hours on end, yeah. Yeah. I said, "Yeah, that's what..." I wanted to come someday, but I think when I rolled over and finally closed my eyes, I figured it was like 4/40. And it was like, I was... And then I woke up late, so it was... I couldn't imagine that one much more of a drag. Yeah. You know what? It was a trip from there, for sure. Look at that about there. Hey, guys, you know what? Buddy did. I talked to Buddy the next day, and I said, "Man, he left after I did it." I said, "Man, you're... Yeah? Well, it's time to leave." And so I left like, 3, and he goes, "Well, I've got home at like, 5." And then... Yeah. So I slept in my car till 9. Yeah. I don't know, but you go 2 hours to get all the way to your house, and you pull up in your driveway, and instead of getting in your nice, warm bed, you're slept in your car for 4 hours? [laughter] It's pretty cute. He's lying in a... He's lying in a fuck, did you do that? Yeah. [laughter] Marty, you sent your... Yeah. He said that it's not a lot of jammin' excuse. Yeah. He just didn't want it to end. He just didn't want the night to end. That's what it was. Jesus. He got home. He was like, "You grew it. I don't want this night to end. Even if it's next 4 hours, you know?" [laughter] You're sleeping in your car that's fine, sleeping in your car in Owen's driveway, not your own. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very poor in Owen's house. Exactly. It's like bar. Yeah. Quite a few people did that, man. Quite a few people crashed. So, you know... Oh, man. Not a problem. One of the younger guys out of an air manager said Owen has in his house. You couldn't do that. I'd let you. [laughter] Exactly. I would heat up. Yeah, but that... That was really funny. I tell you what. I was surprised. I even turned into a buddy. I was like, "Buddy, you're still out?" I was like, "Was that what you mean, Jack?" I'm like, "I don't know, buddy. I just didn't expect it." Like, I don't know. I just, you know... You know, buddy is very calm. He doesn't get too excitable, but... Yeah, ladies. He's a party, man. He gets broke down for sure. You definitely don't know. Buddy was having a good time. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but he had a great time. Yeah. So... I said my goodbye to everybody except for Owen. Owen, you were on the phone with Howard for... I don't know how long. I was talking about me on the phone, and then it wouldn't let me leave. [laughter] Howard... I think he had more. He did. Howard was at Harvard at that, and was trying to live vicariously through me. So, like, I had to explain everything of where this went, how this went, where this was going. He was the one who told me to round up. He told me to round up everybody right now at 3 a.m. and make them clean the house. I'm like, "Nobody's going to do that right now. Everybody's half dead." [laughter] That ain't happening. So... There. But yeah, he got me on the phone for a while because he said that he was on call. He wasn't able to make it. So, you know... One of those things where he still wanted to be a part of it. Yeah. We glanced over. One thing is usually people don't bring animals to carpet fest. But Mr. Mike Curtin had to bring these specific animals just because he just had to. I'm glad he did. He read Ocelot Jag to Ocelot Jag and the clutch that he got is just insane. Oh, my God. I mean, I don't know. I don't know who saw who did it, but oh, my God. It was just nuts. But... The odds of getting what he got. So, he got, correct me if I'm wrong, but he got no loosies. Yeah, I think he had 12 eggs. Yep. 12 eggs, no loosies, two non-jags, and 10 jags, all of them Ocelot better. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Some of them severely Ocelotted. And one of the non-jags, one of the sibs, was heavily Ocelotted as well. Yeah. Just incredible. Crazy. And I would say that was my biggest regret of the day, is I didn't even get to look at them. Terrible. You missed it. Yeah, you were cooking dairy. Dairy. I was cooking 20 pounds of chicken, you know what I mean? I was like, I couldn't get away from the grill. And, you know, I was potentially burning something. I was trying to look. I was trying to act. And I was open to, you know, asking to go look at them later, but then I got caught up with everything and I was able to see them. But it looked good from afar. Yeah. They had some crazy patterns on there. Crazy, crazy patterns. But Bill, now you're officially a short tail python. Yeah. Yeah. Matt and Lon still on? Matt's here. I don't think Lon ever called in. Yeah, I'm still here. Well, I didn't call them Matt still here. And I, you know, you're talking to Eric about just kind of, you know, you go to something like carpet fest and just kind of refuels your passion or, you know, you just kind of get caught up in the moment. And man, that's fun, isn't it? Yeah, it's definitely a lot of fun. And that's kind of what happened. That's just kind of what happened to me. But I had been eyeing your additions from afar for several months. So I knew I was getting myself into, or I think I did or do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. No attention to what Alan's red blood was doing there. What you're getting from me and Lon aren't going to do that. I could play it out. Hey, I don't believe these guys. You know, you know, Bill, I was told myself being a young impressionable person that they would be settled in happy animals, but I don't know. He, he, I was, I went and got his from Lon and it was a nice animal. I don't know what happened when he did do it. Yeah. He just, I think he kept on slapping it saying you're not a bowel. You're not a bowel. Yeah, I know. It's like, man, he's still pulling, but not. Yeah. That's what it is. That's what it is. That's wrong. He's trying to, man, he's trying to breed that thing to a rough scale. It's a problem. That's probably what I feel. I, I will not let my, my sexy rough skills near my angry floor. That's a good question. So. See, that's it. You're calling him angry slug. I mean, just. Yeah. You've got poor feet. All that negative negativity, man. That's the problem. Negativity. I tried to tell him that. In all seriousness, you guys could not have represented. You could not have better representation to have Matt and Lon there. Two guys. I mean, you know, I was, they're a short tail guys, but they both have, they both have carpets. They're both Marilia fans. I try to picture myself going, you know, being the opposite. You know, maybe having a couple of short tails, but being mostly a Marilia guy and then going to one of their facets. Be kind of, I'd be intimidated and be hard a little bit, but those guys and they did awesome. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was, I was slightly worried, but not really. I mean, it wasn't worried. I was just like, Oh, I wonder how we're going to be viewed. But, um, that's the thing. I put the guys that were there and you got everybody was so friendly. So after the first two beers, it was, you know, everything was normal. You know, it was just like talking like with anyone else. That was 12, 15 for me. Well, we'll see you guys later. I think you're, I think you're the first one of the first people I've seen when I walked in. It's exactly on the grill, I've seen Bill stand out. I told you I was going to nab you because I needed some massive knowledge and I got it. I was tied up at work today, but all week I'm going to give you the history lesson on some, uh, sending you lots of pictures and info on a borneos and everything else. So starting tomorrow. Starting tomorrow. There you go. Part of. Yeah. A lot of fun. Yeah. And that the, what I'm looking at with your kinders, man, that I'm fired up. I'm excited and I've been sitting there. I'm looking at your carpets and then even, I mean, like even your, your ball python stuff, which is, I know, royal. Sorry. I don't want to be there. Yeah. Don't make, don't make Eric mute you. Yeah. It's fine. It's that one. Right. I am a frightening individual. So. Well, yeah, Bill, Bill has, uh, creme de la creme on all levels in his collection. You know? You know, it's kind of bummed about it's kind of, you know, the, the voice. You know, the royal bashing. Those days are kind of over. It's been really quiet. For the last year, you know, a couple of years ago, it seemed to really come to a head. Where, you know, it just, it was. I was going to say, I think you should state that it was a, it was carpet fest. Had a couple of, you know, everyone there has not just carpets. And I don't think I heard anybody just sitting there. Like you think you would hear at a reptile party. If there were people not in the ball place. I didn't hear. There were a couple of cracks. There's always going to be that because people have ball place on there, but no one focused on. Winding like the ball community is messing up this or like the ball crowd. You know, it was none of that. So that was, that was a positive. Yeah. Two years ago, it would have and always, I always relished it when it happened. I enjoyed it. You know, and just kind of boring now that it seems to be passing. You like the, you like the give and take of sticking up for ball flights on or. Oh, man. Man, I love it. I love it. Yeah. You know, I don't know. One of the things when I was talking to buddy is, you know, putting, you know, me and Owen being in a, in a position where. That we're kind of the voice of the, of the community. You know, we're the only podcast for Maralia. I mean, I guess other people could start one if they wanted to, but, you know, at this moment, we're, we're the ones that are kind of kind of the voice and you have new people coming in. And I think, I remember early on, me and Owen used to do that. And I don't, I think at one point, it just, I think I heard it on another podcast. And, you know, he had a picture of a ball python on a toilet. And I was like, you know what, that's just, that's enough, man. I just, you heard it. And it was like, I just can't, I can't be a part of that negativity, man, because somebody knew is coming into this and they're going to, if I was new coming into that. And that's what, what's going on. I'd be like, what the hell, you know? I think I get more mad, I get more mad at the, some of the Maralia people for what goes on lately, as opposed to the ball people, because at least they're straight. You know, they tell you that this is what they're doing. You know, some of the other people they, seems that they're a little bit hypocritical in my eyes. Not that there's anything wrong with some of the positions that they're taking, because to each their own man, I don't care. It is what you're doing what you do and not do me. And, but, you know, I just don't like. Who you boo boo. That's right. I just don't like the hypocrisy of the whole thing. You know, it's like, for years, you had to listen to people come on and say, I'm all by towns and ball python breeders and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then more from now money. Yeah, it seems like when those two words come into play, shit starts to get fucked up. You know, more. No more. No more. More for money. M&M's and shit gets fucked up. Yeah. Once you start talking about more for money, it's, it's not hobby that can turn around that it's industry market business. Yeah, market. It shouldn't be that way. I mean, it shouldn't. I don't ever look. I like Morse and I don't look at it that way. I even get, and people built that I know and like, and even maybe you guys do it. I don't know. But, you know, when someone starts going, well, in the industry, I still like to call it a hobby. You know, I understand some people, I guess it is when, when they're selling snakes and that's the only thing they're doing to keep their lights on. I guess it's okay for them to call that. I guess that's what you would have to call it. But so many people, basically, there's people doing it for fun. I'm going to call it industry, industry business, business, you know, that's where, that's where it starts to get hairy and everyone starts to get angry and stuff. You know, it's, it's tiring. Yeah. Yeah, it really does. You know, I think, I think the people that are doing this for a living, I think they need to realize that a lot of us do it as a hobby and they need to keep it, either they have to be really creative and now they come up with weight. I've been saying this for years, like, you know, if you're going to breed carpets or condras or something that's a, you know, a display animal, you should probably have like really nice naturalistic setup. I mean, I think of Greg Maxwell, right? You can say what you will about whether you agree with how he kept condras or not or whatever. I know there's, you know, a lot of carpet people think he was a, you know, not a hundred percent right in how he kept them. Whenever I saw his website or his book or anything of the sort, and just like his cage setups and is the way he displayed his animals made me want to have that in my living room instead of a fish tank. You know what I mean? Not necessarily in the mindset that, oh, I want to breed these guys, you know, and I know that that's how this hobby has gotten, but I don't know, I would approach it. I would, if I was doing it for a living, that would be my approach because basically what you're doing is your, that would be, that would be like saying, okay, I have this recipe for potato salad or whatever. And, you know, well, I'm just going to give it to you so you don't have to shop here anymore. That's just silly. You know, it just doesn't make any business sense. It's the dumbest business move I heard. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. Well, well, I've never, I've never regretted the people that do it or try to do it for a business. I mean, I just, you know, we all have to coexist as long as they're taking care of the animals and have some level of passion for the animals. If they want to try to make, you know, serious money or try to earn more than doing it, you know, let them try about it. Well, I mean, I feel sorry to talk to people that have been successful and done it well, but man, I see it used to be tough, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm always one that thinks there's room for everybody. Not too much of everybody, but like, you know, even, even flippers. Everyone hates flippers, it seems like. And, you know, they're not always the most honest or good people. But flippers do, they can make a good thing. They're at every shell and they get ahold of some snakes in there. You know, every, every table can be off all play sounds or I'll be a dragon. Generally, flippers have a little bit of everything. So somebody doesn't know they buy something different and it plugs them in the stuff. You know, they're looking at them. I agree. I agree. I know a flip and they take good care of the animals and they take good care of their customers. And that's, you know, to me, that's, that's important. I, you know, I don't regret them for doing that. It's almost like a gateway because, I mean, a lot of the breeders, big breeders or big name breeders or good breeders aren't coming to shows anymore or at least not spread out. So if, if a decent flipper, even, even a bad one gets somebody, an animal, to where it opens their eyes and they start searching, searching Facebook, the internet period, it opens the door. It's like a gateway to things like that. And of course, it's not really a gateway to ballplay sounds or beer to dragons or electric cactos and that kind of stuff because that's everywhere and you're going to go to the table where there's kind of variety and it looks beautiful and clean. So, you know, even even business people. Flippers. I think there's room for everybody. But like I said, not, not too many of them. Right. Right. The market will dictate how many there, you know, I mean, when there's too many, they'll, they'll cease to exist. Yes. Yes. You see on these groups, like, I mean, people just run a flipper. Oh, like, you know, and I get it. Some of them are bad, but some of them aren't bad people aren't. They don't keep animals bad. Like you said, Bill, they keep nice things and like, there's just going to be room for them. You're not going to get rid of them, just like you're not going to get rid of just a guy like, like Eric said, but they're just business people. They're doing it. That's their full time job and say the truth. I'm with you, Eric. A hundred percent like they should realize that just to reserve the hobby, they're going to have to do things differently, but they don't get a ship because that's how they feed their families. So, I mean, I guess at that point, it's they got to do what they got to do. And that's the stinky part about being. This is their nine to five to sell in snakes. That's why I just wouldn't, I couldn't imagine doing it would suck all the fun out of it for me because that's why I'm in it. To begin with, if I was going to make money, I think I'd have a whole different collection because. Yeah, yeah. I crack up what we were like, man, you must make crazy money. I'm like, no, I mostly have Borneo short sales. Do you think I'm most you think I'm holding money from Borneo short sales? You must be out of your mind. I mean, don't get me. I don't want to, I don't want to sound like I'm against like guys to do it full time. I'm not, you know, I didn't take it that way. I just think that, I think that, I don't know, it's just, I think that, I think you're right that there has to be room for everybody. And I think that that, that, that it's a great thing. I just think that there needs to be, you know, I think, Bill, you brought this up on GTP, Keep Be Were Radio. You know, like, Kondro guys, go on the shows, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I think that if they're out there showing that, you know, because you're walking around a show, you know, you take Tinley, right? On the second day, most people are there and they're coming there to just see snakes or see reptiles, you know. They, they're not, they're not there to go and be the next big breeder or whatever. They're just like, oh, something to do on a Sunday. Let's take our kids there. Because I got to be honest, when, when I first was getting back into it, that's what I did at the one that was in Philly. You know, I, I didn't go down there and say, I'm going to be the next big breeder here. So let me stock up. It was just, it was a chance to see animals that you can't even see it at zoo. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. I'm going to be, I'm going to be blown away. This guy's going to be there. They're going to have this. And I think if, if more, go ahead. Well, I was going to say, let me tell you something. Flippers and professional breeders are always going to be afraid of guys like you, me and Owen. And everybody that's on this call right now and everybody that was a carpet fest, we're not afraid of them. I'm not afraid of those guys don't threaten me, threaten me what I do, how I keep my animals, what shows I go to, what shows I've been, what animals I sell. It's the opposite. They are threatened by us. And once you figure that out and once you believe that, then your perspective changes on the business aspect of, of this hobby. They're afraid of us. Yeah, that's a good point. I never thought. Yeah. See, now you got fired up, Bill. We don't need, you know, we don't need the money from this. They do. And they're, they get desperate and wring their hands and do things that we wouldn't think about doing. And it's because we threatened them. Yeah. And if I say as much positivity as I just gave flippers, of course, there's tons of negativity and it could go the opposite way. Someone might get into an animal and it's a seller's terrible and they might have no desire because they think that's how they all are. But I think most people that really want to get into an animal, they could tell they got a crap animal and they're going to search and ask what happened with this one. And then, you know, people are going to enlighten them. Sorry. Well, you bought off a guy who buys off other people and rides a, you know, that animal basically lives in a truck. They don't take care of it, right? They probably just labeled it. You've got to, you know, go look at this group, see people, you can plug into people that way and that's how people really get started. And, you know, that's the good thing. But obviously, like I said, I'm not promoting. I don't want anyone to think I'm promoting flippers. I don't, I'm not appreciative of them. I feel like I said, I think there is room for everybody. That's, that's what I think. It seems like in the reptile hobby now, these people just think it should all be people with just pure. I swear passion and, and want to love all the hobbies, but it's just not always going to be that way. There's always going to be the resellers and just the guys that look at it strictly. I mean, even the guys look at it strictly from a business point, they might have loved it at one time or so I've loved to work, but it's about paying the bills at this point. They're, they're frustrated and, and that, you know, but Matt, you can be a flipper and do both. You can be a flipper still and still have passion for the animal. The flippers that I know that I, that I, you know, would trust or would do business with are those people, just because they're not breeding the animal. They saw a passion for it and, you know, so I don't, yeah, but there's a lot of flippers that are not that way where they don't care about the animal. They just want the money that, you know, it could be gold necklace or it could be a carpet. No care of the difference. No, there's definitely good people. I don't even want to call them all flippers because those people that represent the things right, they only buy off of certain people. And they want the information and it's not like, you know, whatever bad flipper, I'm not going to name names, you know, they just take anything in this label if they don't even care, you know, you try to give them information. They don't even want it, you know, because there's people that really do that. They buy off of all the certain people, they represent the animal right. They're not at every single show, the animals not living in the truck, you know, and they get people. You know, they want to know, they, they, they want to know the breeder and they want to do the right thing by it and they even breed themselves. They have animals that they breed even and they take to, you know, you get what I'm saying I'm rambling on. Yeah, no, no, absolutely. There you go. I'm saying that I'm right here. I'm saying there's so many different ways you can approach the reptile community as well as the industry. And, you know, you can't hold anybody for the way they do things for the way that they represent themselves. I mean, you can only really kind of judge a person by the way they run their business and the way that they represent the animals and how to care for their animals. So if you're a guy who's sole purpose is to run around and buy stuff and then resell, that's fine. Just as long as you're not buying the worst crap imaginable, not trying to fix it and then just releasing it on to the public at a ridiculously cheap price. That's where I would find a problem with anybody who would be able to go flip her. Or just bad not knowing, not knowing anything about the animals that you're selling. Exactly. Well, well, not to cut you off, but I know you go through it because we're at the same show, Hamburg. How many times have someone looked at your table forever, asked you questions, came back. And wandered off and bought them out. With a carpet and asking them what's wrong with it, what is this? What is, I mean, I have it with born ears and all people buy blood and it's the same thing. I bought it from that kind of corner and it was 80 bucks. I know yours were more. Why is it so skinny? Why is this one so it have bugs? You know what I mean? And I feel for the guy and I don't know how many times in my head, I'll say next time something like that happens, I ain't helping. But I'll help every single thing. But you always do. I always do the same thing. Let's see. Here's where you got this. Quite you. The first thing out of my mouth, they come back and they go, why is yours more expensive? Well, I stand by my animals and I have 10 years experience reading and raising these particular types of animals. So, you know, if I, yeah, if you buy one of my animals or something goes wrong, you can call me at 2 in the morning. I won't be happy, but I will help you do whatever's going wrong. I got vet and places in the area or in the tri-state that I could point you in the right direction if you could go that way. You call those guys and say this animal that I've grown attached to is dying. They're going to say, well, if it dies, come back and maybe we'll give you another one. Or that's not our problem. So, you want to spend the 80 bucks over there or you want to come over here? And you know what, sometimes when they come back with the 80 dollar animal and they went wrong, I will flat out tell them, well, yes, you should have gone, you should have bought it here. And then I'll help them through it. And then a lot of times when you do that and you help somebody, you've now get the customer for the rest of their lives because now they're going to come to you. I've had that happen. Yeah, it's, you know, you know what though, you know what you guys are missing is that when you have that new reptile person that's coming in and yeah, maybe they only have 80 bucks in their pocket and they really want to get, you know, a carpet python or a short tail, whatever. It's that positive experience that you gave them. Hopefully, they learned a valuable lesson and they're going to look up to you and, you know, later on coming back to you and say, oh, yeah, oh man. I don't know if you've ever been in a position where you go and you buy, I think I did this with carpet pythons. My first carpet python is ugly as hell, you know what I mean, but just the fact that it was a carpet python, I bought it a pet shop, you know, and I started trying to look, look them up and everything. And I'm like, well, why doesn't my jungle carpet look like, like, like headhunter jungle carpet. How come, you know, well, this is why, you know. And then if, if, I don't know, it's just those things that you remember those people, you know, that's why I take somebody like Jason Bailin, you know, like I look up to that guy a lot because when, when, you know, I didn't know anything about carpets, here's this guy taking the time to show me, you know, this is whatever. And he gave me a carpet that I could afford, and I don't know, just the way he approached it made me want to buy from him. Maybe it's just the way I am and I know not everybody's like that, you know, there are some people that just going to go and get the cheapest carpet that they can get. Well, I think, I think we've all experienced all spectrums of that. I mean, you said this before to, you know, maybe to you, Eric, in the reptile business, you see the best of the best and the worst of the worst. I mean, you know, you see some really bad people in the community, but then you see some really stellar people and that's both buyers and sellers. I mean, I've experienced everything that you said. I've had people that have milked me, used me, come over to my room, had me sexy animals for them, you know, whatever. And then, you know, with all these false promises and you never hear from them again or they buy something else or whatever. But then I've had people that, and it doesn't matter what socio-economic, you know, path you're talking about here, people that have very little money and people that have a lot of money. You know, they'll come and either talk to me to show, come to my house, meet my room, and then they're hooked, you know, they're hooked. And yeah, you know, those are the people that you really value. Those are the relationships. You really, you know, those are the people you go, well, you know, this is a standard person. I don't care how much money they have or how much they want to spend. I can always find something for them. Right. And I'm willing to spend the time and all that with them. Yeah, and you want to talk about the best of the best. So I'm going to bring a full circle and, you know, add the carpet fest to me. That was the best of the best. You know what I mean? You have, you have not only the carpet Python people that are on point. You have the condro people that are on point, and then you have the short tail people that are on point. You know, so I mean, it's just, you know, that's an added benefit to go into an event like that, you know. Yeah. Only the only the cream of the cream is going to show up at a place like carpet fest. Yeah, heck yeah. That's true. And me, because it was at my house. But, um, wow, you have to make fun of Owen anymore. He doesn't show. I have Stockholm syndrome at this point. It's due to myself. Anyway, I mean, Oh, and you were nervous. You were nervous about that. I would, because there were, because there's far too many people who I first off respected and myer in the reptile community. They were coming to my house. They're going to look at my animals in my cages. Holy crap. And, you know, I mean, if it's Eric, you know, he's lucky if I even clean the paper. But it's like, you know, he usually makes me clean the paper. You damn right, I do. But it's like, but now there's like everybody's coming here. And, you know, you take pictures of your animals and you, of course, people have seen your animals, but, you know, you make sure there's not any. Poop in the picture. Make sure the lighting's good. Make sure it's a good representation of the animal. Now, you're like, look, you've seen them without their makeup on. Like, you know, it could be bad if it's not done right. But, yes, I was quite nervous about people seeing everybody. And, of course, the blood took a huge crap somewhere within the hour after we checked on it and everybody arrived. So, yeah, reptile, reptile people will appreciate this. So the day before Owen goes and cleans all his cages, he did an awesome job, by the way. I was quite impressed because, you know, I know how, like, sometimes we all have those off days and it's like, yeah, I'm not going to. I'll be fine tomorrow. I'll just give that tomorrow. Me and Owen have both seen that in our rooms to where it's like, okay, well, you know, I just changed the paper. I swear to God, you know, but we don't judge me. Yeah, right. So anyway, Owen goes and he cleans everything. We go down. This is Friday night. We're looking around. Everything's immaculate, you know, going through blah, blah, blah. And sure enough, just like in good old Python fashion, you put in fresh paper, they decide that they're just going to take a massive shit. Or they're going to urate all over the place. Yeah. So Owen, quick, the following morning's like, you, you and you, you need to go and start cleaning snakes. Yeah, I pointed at one of you and there were four of you that's just clean and think about how many people can take free to Python cage. It's like, all of you, we got it done quick. Well, the thing is, I'm like, all right, everybody's going to take a job and you all volunteered to go clean Python. It's like, okay, thank you. I'll back to you. Yeah, I quit back here. Zach can crawl on the cages. It's an unfair advantage. All right, Bill. Zach could live in the tank I built in the frickin living room. So you've been quiet. You've been quiet too long, Zach. Come on. You're not going to hashtag a little give a fuck. Yeah, I'm not going to touch that one. I don't know. You want to get me all riled up. You know, it's going to leave that one there, you know. Tell me, trying times I tried to get Matt to get that blood Python out. Several, I believe. He just refused. He was up. He was climbing up those stairs out of that room, and I just kept, I was heckling them. I was begging them, praising them. Nothing worked. Nothing worked. Oh, man. You got to go see his. Yeah, you know, I wish we could have got you over to see his setup, Bill, man. You're going to be impressed. I know. He's high-end. These are way bigger than mine. These are way more impressive than mine. They're prettier and better be eight. So, you know, the fact that you saw mine and still were like blood phythons are a good idea. Just screams that you might be insane. So, one of these better. They're good, Matt. They're good. No worries. The other thing is this year, we decided to take a trip the following day to wrap the land. We figured if people were coming out of their way to come up, maybe we should try to figure out something that, you know, would not that carpet fest is not worth it, but maybe a little added bonus. So, we went to wrap the land, which is an A.Z.A. accredited zoo that just pretty much has reptiles and dinosaurs. Not a fan of the dinosaur part, but hey. Yeah, you know what? The funniest bit about that, though, I think we all woke up and I think Eric was fine thinking like I was like, I don't want to go back to bed. I just want to go back to bed. I'm not sure if you're like, I'd be worthy. Like, do you really want to go? How bad is it to give me that cool? Like, you know, we were having second doubts and I was thinking, no, this guy came all the way up from Texas to go to this thing. And we went on down. We got to get our answers up. And you know what? I'm glad we did because it was just really cool, man. It was really cool, but I have to tell you, driving through the hills of Pencil Tucky, when you have a hangover. Yo, that's rough. I had with me, Zach and Mike, and we're driving and these two, I'm feeling good. It's all the pickled you said, Jack, swear to God. Anyway, I'm feeling good. Oh, man, I had to drop off by the way. His daughter woke up. But we're driving and these guys are like, dude, I'm going to get sick. I'm going to throw up. They were just like every little move. And then, you know, of course, my car, my car was acting up on me a bit, which, you know, made for the ride even more fun. But, yeah, we had, Zach's right. I think at one point, we were both drinking coffee or something. And I was like, man, I don't know if I want to make this drive because I thought it was an hour. Owen lied to me. He told me it was an hour. He did. It was two hours. It was two and a half. Owen, Owen lied, and Eric refuses to acknowledge this thing known as Google. So he was going to make it up himself. So we had Andy Kraus who came up from Texas and who, by the way, is a pretty cool guy. He works with sea turtles and he was talking to me about that. He was like, we found out eating cheeseburgers on the way back from wrestling. He goes, yeah, we're with sea turtles. I'm like, hell, I'm like, I'm going to open with that. You know, like, even on a day, I want to be like, uh, and I work with sea turtles and, you know, I like that. That would be the, that would be the one liner. You know, it'd be the first thing you'd have to think about. He sure. And you just, you're surrounded just as I work with actual sea turtles. I get it. Son. Yeah. We also had Scott and, uh, Kyler, uh, Kyler, Kyle Taylor, Kyler. I'm just putting them together. His name is just one big word, which you picked up his first car by that car professed, which was, uh, it's pretty awesome. And he's got to grab a breadle. So it was one of those things where they were in the truck with me and everybody was pretty quiet. We had bursts of conversation, but for the most part, Scott was just like, don't want to move. And I'm like, okay, understood. So, uh, but, you know, we, we got there. Not in our car, man. Not in our car. There was just, no, we didn't shut the hell up the whole time. Oh. No, we didn't. Sorry. Go ahead. Two got there. You guys went in two vehicles? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, we, we, we talked about everything from, uh, let's say, from girls to, uh, to snakes and back to girls. I think again, and then the snakes, and then, uh, you know, I think, uh, uh, traveling around the world came into the conversation. Classic, classic road trip type stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, I mean, reptiland was cool. Uh, we went behind the scenes and, and, uh, you know, saw some stuff there that they had. Uh, just beautiful displays, uh, down in the, uh, in their, uh, you know, in their, in the, in the actual spot where they have all their, you know, their animals. I mean, the one was, uh, rhino rat snakes. I think that when we walked out at the upstairs, the first case you see there was rhino rats, you know, which was pretty little like that. I was thinking they had, uh, they had a whole room, uh, behind the scenes, they had a whole room of, uh, baby king cobras. Yeah, that was the whole man. Family reptiland does a very good job at raising baby king cobras, so they had a bunch of them, and all the... Like how many? How many am I want? Like, good twelve? Wow. They were a bunch. I mean, and all different sizes, uh, from, none of them were really tiny because they, they didn't have their bands, but, you know, there was like this one that was just in this tiny little upturned, uh, ten gallon tank that was standing, like, on its edge, on its, on its end, with a glass. So it was almost like you'd sit, consider for a contour cage, and it had, like, an honestly god, like, tottered plant in the middle of it, and this baby king cobra's just sticking out of the leaves, just kind of staring at us, and, you know, you can move in closer and you're like, yep, that, yep, that is a, that's what that is. So, it, yep, yeah, miniaturized, but that's what that is. So, it was, uh, really cool. Um, yeah, she, she was explaining how it takes them, like, a whole year to get them all to rodents, and that's pretty much what they're really good at, and that's why they kind of send them to them, and she's like, uh, sometimes you have to start them with, like, you know, live snakes, and then dead snakes, and then mike-scented snakes, and then you move them over to snake-scented mice, and then you move over to frozen, uh, live mice, and she was explaining all the different steps, and it takes them up to a year, you know, for each one. You get them to, uh, to be ready to go to back to the roof, so it's crazy. And she says something about, like, stitching, like, a baby-torn snake to a mouse at one point? Yes, and how they stitch, yep, they do it, yep, exactly. Um, wow, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was pretty cool because, uh, they, uh, you know, obviously, again, they don't approach it as a, I guess it is a business, but just a different way that they do things. Um, even, uh, it was, it was interesting that there was a reticulated python there, which they did have some downstairs, but they had one upstairs, and they said that, uh, they had picked that up simply because of the, uh, legislation that had gone through. And, uh, if they ever needed one, they wanted to be able to have, uh, you know, one for display, or extra for display. Yeah, a lot of people don't, a lot of people don't realize that, you know, that, that, that legislation affects news, too, and it affects the AZA accredited zoos, you know. It's just, it doesn't affect some mom and pop guy on the side of the court, you know, and it affects everybody. And, you know, a lot of zoos, they don't, so, you know, many of them don't agree with a lot of legislation, so, um, it, you know, for what the keeper was telling us, she didn't seem like she very much agreed with a lot of the stuff, and, and, uh, you know. So, it was, it was really cool, even, like, the fact that they were talking about, that they, they breed milk snakes, like, you know, and they trade them with zoos, milk snakes, and I was like, why would you want it? Like, it just, I was almost like, that doesn't even make sense, why would you waste your time breeding milk snakes? And I don't like, that's just kind of silly to me, you know, you go get those for, like, ten bucks at any rep, I'll show you, but they spend, you know, zoo money and zoo time, and to, to breed them, the reason why is because, well, they have to trade them to other zoos, you know, zoos. So, can't regularly buy from the public or vice versa. So, you know, they have to provide their own stock, and so, you know, things that you wouldn't think do, like, they'll breed a crested geckos, and like, like, why would you breed, like, you almost like, why would you breed that? Yeah, you're a zoo. Shouldn't you be, like, breeding, like, the rarer? Yeah, like, poor Taras, and, like, you know what I mean? Come here, scrubs. Yeah, it's a ball, so something, like, exactly, like, all the space was being put towards, like, stuff that is so common, you know, but they have to be able to do it. And it's like, yeah, there are rare animals in collections, in private collections, that I know of, then are sitting in the zoo, but you're exactly correct. They have to do what, you know, is needed. I mean, obviously, they said they breed milksnakes, like, no, tomorrow, and they use some of those milksnakes to feed the baby king covers, and then they send those other milksnakes off to different zoos to be part of educational programs and displays at other zoos, and not everybody's going to want how my hair is scrubbed, or something like that, so. Right, right, so yeah, I guess I don't understand the legislation, so, you know, the legislation doesn't affect the zoos. I mean, they don't have a vast interest in large python species regulation, or, I mean, I guess, I guess they really don't. No, yes, exactly, it does affect them, you know, it really does, you know, they can't send an animal. It just causes them to have to do way more paperwork. Let's say they want to send that retake to a zoo across, you know, the border that needed to appear that retake with one of theirs. Well, now they're going to have to get some kind of permission to do that, even if they could do that, because they're going to be, you know, they're going to be challenged. Are they involved? Are they involved? I mean, I just don't hear the zoos becoming involved politically in the ending of that. I don't believe most of them are. I think that probably has to do with the fact of there's this separation between the private sector and the zoo sector, which just from the two situations that we heard of seems that probably, it almost seems like it's ridiculous, because meaning that if a zoo would rely on a breeder, you know, which, I don't know, you hear sometimes that people will say that breeders are better at it. You know, I've heard before that, you know, zoos couldn't breed such and such and like, you know, Joe Schmo that had something to do with it. Yeah, we're able to do it. Yeah, but I think that makes a lot of sense, because even when we were back there, how many different species did they have in that one's breed back there? I mean, every cage with a different species, they rarely saw like a group of the same animals. I mean, just every day had copperheads sitting next to blue-tonk skinks sitting next to, you know, I don't know, alligator sitting next to milk snakes. It was crazy, so it's not easy for them to gear themselves towards breeding one specific animal. So, you know, that's why I think they probably have a harder time maybe specifically breeding some things because they have to attend to so many things, you know, so many different things. It's almost, yeah, some of them are almost pet store-like mentality. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's definitely not all of them. Yeah, but at the same time, on the same side of it, I think that zoos also would probably have success with an animal, like, say a scrub bite done, because I feel that breeders bail on them too quick, right? So, here you have this scrub python that's set up at a zoo, and it's set up there for years, you know, it's just there, it's years. It becomes acclimated to what it does after, you know, six, seven, eight years, whatever. And that's when I think those breeders start to maybe have success with -- Well, yeah, there's no doubt that the zoo -- I mean, tenders, they're classic example. They, you know, flourished in this country in the early '70s, you know, on the backs of zoos and zoo workers, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know -- I don't know what exactly that kind of divide between, you know, the zoo and the private keeper kind of happened. I mean, I even know when I talk to, you know, zoo keepers, you know, when I meet them at zoos, you know, I often don't tell them that I'm a reptile keeper, you know, because, you know, you do get those, well, you know, we don't think you should be keeping those at home. You get a lot of that, too, you know, where you're like, you know what, I'm not going to tell you, I'm a keeper as well, even though you're going to have your information wrong. But I'm not going to tell you that because, you know, really, I'm a nobody because I keep that home and not in the zoo. You know, so there's some of that kind of mentality, too, that, you know, I think Clyde's place is probably a lot different in that, in that Clyde did come from the reptile breeding kind of community. And he has a deep roots in the community as a whole and keepers and private keepers, so it may be a different mentality there, but I remember going to, you know, even the Philadelphia Zoo and talking to keepers there and then them kind of give me the, like, we don't think you should be keeping when you're keeping at home type of scenario and, you know, the kind of the leaders kind of feel that you get from some keepers, you know. And I didn't feel that at Clyde, because I was like, I really like it over the end of what we did. Yeah, I think it's pretty cool with us. Go ahead. The key group took us around. She said, you're right. I saw the US Arc shirt and stuff that we were wearing. So she said that that was kind of cool. And I mean, I do know that a lot of private reptile keepers who go work at do sometimes have friction with, you know, already entrenched, you know, keepers who have been doing it for a while. I'm not sure why that is. I know that there's a lot of strict standards and regulations that you must adhere to at a zoo that you might not have to at a, you know, in your private sector. So, and those themselves may be outdated and need to be rewritten. So I would not be surprised if it was something like that. A lot of times though, I feel that, I mean, I know of several people who are in work in zoos like Philadelphia Zoo and have their own private reptiles. I see keepers that I know for Philadelphia Zoo at Pamper and stuff like that. So I know there's a bridge. I also know that there's going to be the, what's it called, the snobby types who are keepers. You know, and you keep your stuff. Don't you think that that's probably old school thinking? And I think probably what you're going to start to see is that that will probably be weeded out. Of course. You know, as generations come up, they realize that, you know, this isn't working. This is old ways of thinking and maybe we should approach it a different way. All you need is the new school of thinking. A person who goes by the new school of thinking could be in a place of power. Once that happens, the tides start to shift. Yeah, absolutely. Some guy who's, you know, kept reptiles in various cages using all the computer systems that are available to us in his bedroom or his basement, his entire life to become lead reptile keeper at Philadelphia Zoo before things start shifting around. That's exactly what that happens. So, you know, and it takes a while for people. It takes a long time for upper epsilon at a zoo to shift over. Because once you're in, you dig yourself in like a tick. So, oh, yeah. Well, look at somebody. Look at somebody like Will Bird. He works at a zoo and look at his collection. So, I mean, you know, there is. He works at a zoo too. So, yeah. So, you're right. Steve Sharp works at a zoo. I know, you know, Terry works at a zoo. Come on. So, yeah. There's plenty of keepers that we know that keep morale air, keep at home. So, I mean, I'm not saying that, you know, far and wide. But, you know, there is that separation. And, you know, maybe that is changing, you know. I hope so. I know it's definitely different in Europe. There are laws out there in terms of like, I mean, you know, like, there's plenty, like, you'll see guys at ham, like, buying stuff for the zoo, you know. And so, that's very common over there. So, I don't know. Maybe maybe that's changing. Who knows? Let me answer this. Does a zoo have, this may be where the separation comes. Does a zoo have an idea of releasing those animals back into the wild at any point? It depends on the species survival point. Right. So, maybe, maybe part of the reason is, is that, you know, unless you can trace back lineage to X amount, well, to the beginning, I guess, maybe they, they can't take the chance. Well, that is for some animals. I mean, obviously, in certain aspects, there are enough milk snakes in the world that don't need to be releasing any into the wild. But with other animals, like, Philly has the monkey tails. I do not think that they have a re-release program for them, but those would be ones that I would think that eventually they would probably start trying to find a way to do that because of the way that they're, of what's going on with them. But normally breeding programs that do re-releases aren't normally done at large scale zoos, they're done at, like, facilities in the country that the animal belongs in. Right. And they're raised up, and then they're, like, almost immediately kicked out as soon as possible. I mean, I see one. I'm just kidding. [Laughter] Are you suggesting that we go for each animal? [Laughter] No. When Andy said he worked with sea turtles, he really takes tickets at sea world. [Laughter] Oh. I'm going to hear about that one. [Laughter] Yeah. But, yeah, I don't know. I mean, it was definitely a cool play. I don't know what you guys thought, but I thought that doing that was well worth the trip. Oh, yeah. When I walk into a place like Reptiland, I walk into a place like Reptiland. And I just go, "Is this place for sale?" Because I'll buy it. Right. I mean, he's got to be retiring at some point, you know? The problem is, you know, I used to work or zoo I used to work for. We had interactions with Clyde. I met him several times. I met him and his son. So I know that there's like another step below. [Laughter] The sun's a really cool guy. So I can't wish death upon him. But there's moments where you're like, "I can show." All right, Eric and I are going to go buy a random field someplace and instead of a reptile zoo, it'll work out fine. He just has to pay for it because I can't afford it. So it's like, you know, and then you see because, and he Clyde did a very intelligent thing. He took what was a tourist attraction or like a roadside stop little thing. He got the AVA accreditation for, as you're entirely made of of reptiles, back when AVA accreditation was like something that was like voluntary or something like that. And, because they're all reptiles, there aren't that many SOPs or species survival plans or anything like that that usually go with them because when you have to, you normally have to give like giant books of enrichment per animal. But that many enrichment ideas for reptiles, nor does the AVA really require that many. So it was probably really easy to get the AVA accreditation. And once you have it, they can't take it away. You just have to keep applying for it and keep approving it for as long as nothing changes. So from being an AVA accredited zoo opened his whole facility up to a ton of new animals, dealings with other zoos and things like that. That's why he has Komodo dragons. I mean, the money he got to build that enclosure and they built that whole thing in house out of their -- those enclosures for the Komodo's and then off of the side of the Aldavers, gorgeous. I love it. Especially the outdoor pens for the Aldavers because it's like just straight glass and gorgeous. Beautiful. I got to post up the video. I took a -- just a quick video to show you the scale of the closure that they built for the Komodo dragon. Bill, when I tell you that this thing was probably the coolest enclosure I have ever seen, it's probably was as big as the first floor of my house. It had a waterfall in it. It had a waterfall in it. And a full buffalo skeleton and a Komodo dragon. Oh, see. Yeah, it was like that. Yeah, right. It was very impressive. Yeah. Put a condro in there, a family of condros, or what? Oh, yeah. Yeah. In the buffalo skeleton, hanging on the buffalo skeleton, yeah. Yeah, it was really funny. They put the heat lamp or the infrared -- again, the infrared heat lamp. Shot it right down to where the buffalo -- right next to the buffalo. So that gets what? When the Komodo wanted a bath, it had to be right next to the buffalo. So he always got a nice shot. Like they -- that's what the light does. That's what he does. He is an enclosure builder first, you know. He thinks about the enclosure. That's why he has some world-class displays. And that's why his displays goes on tour, is because they're that good. He thinks about all that stuff ahead of time. So that Komodo dragon spends 90% of the time chilling in the perfect position right next to the waterfall, right next to the buffalo skeleton. So you get all one beautiful shot. It is perfect. It's right when you walk in. It's like you walk in and he's right there and right in the middle. In the middle. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's perfect design. Yeah, perfect design. Yeah, perfect design. It was fun. Yeah, when I see -- when I walked in there, I got the same feeling I did when I was younger and I went there, but when I was younger, that's what let -- you know, you've heard me talk about on the show before how I'd like to have this place where I have just these beautiful enclosures with each species of python represented and just, you know, that kind of -- that's where I get that idea from. I just imagine a place, you know, pythons of the world or something like that. And like people would come to see it. And there he goes. All these different types of pythons. The level of detail. You're absolutely right. It's art, you know? I mean, just that one thing -- he has this huge -- it looks like the tank that Owen had in his living room, but just taller. And it was just bioactive substrate with just plants all over the living. Right in the middle. Yeah, a huge trunk. Right in the middle. Oh, man, it was crazy. And like, she's a gecko in there running around. Yeah. And it looked like you were looking at a tree stump and these animals are just living on it. Oh, yeah. It's phenomenal work that they do. Yeah, and not only that, the animals were beautiful. I mean, you know, that's one thing. It's like not only were the enclosures awesome, but, you know, you didn't see sick animal there, you know? You know? Oh, I think that thing got miked. But, you know, you see the corn snake at some zoo. He's like, don't eat all of it. He can definitely tell some issues, you know, with some animals. Other people don't totally blow behind them, but everything was really healthy. You know, the re-ticks on display were gorgeous. And it was just like, you know, it was just great. Everything about that place, the Gator demonstration, that was fantastic. Yeah. That was really cool. You know, we needed to learn all that. The anacondas that we saw off display. I mean, wow. Bill, let me give you a visual of how this went down. So we're walking through, it's kind of like a room, right? So they have two separate rooms. They have an amphibian room, and they have a reptile room. And the reptile room is heated, and the amphibian room is cooler. Oddly enough, the chondros that they had there were in the amphibian room. Yeah. Doesn't surprise me one bit. Yep. And they were in a tub with two purchase, and there was two of them in there. No heat. So in the reptile room, they have like a long hallway, and basically they have vision cages, and they have them above these big, think of like these big huge bins that maybe watermelon or something would come in, you know? Okay. You might see in the supermarket. Right. And in those, they have, like they have it set up with a drainage system and whatnot, so they put water in there. So all the turtles and the crocodilians and everything are down on the bottom, and they have open tops and basket lights and whatnot. And all the other things are, you know, up above. And it's like they have basically like a center aisle going down the middle, and you're walking down, and then they have these two doors. And in these doors, they almost look like refrigerators. Right. Like walking fridges. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Oh, like a walking car. Yeah. Yes. So I'm thinking like, oh, what do they got in there? They must be like where they keep the food or, you know, maybe frozen rodents are in there or something like that. And she's like, oh, this is where we have our two anacondas. I was like, what? So you look in, and this is big, huge walk-in cooler type of thing with this like a slope, and then just basically a big thing of water, which at the time they were waiting for the heater. So at that moment, they didn't have the water in there. But two huge, huge anacondas in there. And then they had two. What was it? Was there alligators in the other one? Yeah. Yeah. The Cuban. You're the Cuban iguana. Oh, Cuban. You're right. Yeah. Oh, you rock. Pretty. Yeah. Oh. But yeah, they had, and it was just like looking in there. The dwarf crocs, like you're peering in the glass, and these dwarf crocs know where the door is, and they're looking right at you. And it's just like, oh my God. I mean, set of balls you must have to walk in there. It's got to be ridiculous. Number one, number two, holy crap. So you didn't go in, Owen? Oh, no. You must go. I would have. I would have. Eric would have surely been eating. Surely been eating. I mean, you want anacondas. You want anacondas? You want anacondas? Yeah. Yeah. That's the opposite first. They'll see the animal, and then I'll be able to go in when they're pulled. Yeah. Right. You do correctly. Come on now. Yeah. Wait, wait, wait. You didn't tell them about the greatest part of the whole thing? What's that? The robotic target. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was getting in there. That's so funny. It's monsoon. While we were there, it was raining like crazy. Yeah. The yellow foot tortoises were like game on. So we come walking out. We'll walk it around and one yellow foot male is useful on mounting a female. And of course, like Jack and everybody, they go over there. They're taking videos of them. They're pointing at it. It's making these noises, and then like, well, all right, we've now reverted to, you know, six graders, whatever, tortoise porn, tortoise porn. You know what the funny thing was, is that you couldn't hear him making a noise until you kind of like crouched down. And it was kind of like once you do like down on like a certain level, then you hear like this. It's just like this crazy boy. We're like, look at this guy go. Look at him go. Oh man. He was so funny. He was at it. Oh, and was that tortoise a proven breeder? He probably did. But yeah, everybody else at the zoo is like, like hurrying past the tortoise enclosure and trying not to expose their children. And you know, we're at, we're all huddled around screaming and pointing. Yeah. We skipped the butterfly exhibit. So I think we all decided we've seen enough butterflies in our lives. Yeah. The evenings were cool, man. The evenings were cool. The dinosaur exhibit was wack, but like, it just wasn't for me. You know, I guess kids would enjoy it. But like it was just, I sometimes you forget that these kind of pandas were kids and like, you get to the point sometimes. But you know, yeah, they have to. I mean, that's their page change, right? But you know, you, I'm going in there and then they have the emus in there. You know, it's like living dinosaurs and, you know, you get to feed them and all that. And it was pretty cool. I mean, those are pretty damn big. And I never got so close to the emus like that before. They were really cool with that. Then the 50 cents to feed them. Wait, hold on. I got a story for this. Yeah, they go and they say, he goes and he gets some of the food in his hand and he walks up and they're all afraid to feed them because this thing is like they're afraid it's going to pack them. And I'm sitting there thinking like, man, I'm pulling a bill on him. I'm like, don't be a pussy. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, what the hell's wrong with these guys? So him and Mike are like, I don't know. And then he walks up and Zach's finally like, all right, I'll do it. And then this thing comes over and I swear to God, it almost put its beak through it. Zach's hand. I was like, oh, maybe I, maybe I, maybe I overspoke. Maybe you think they're horrible creatures. Oh, yeah, man. But that was funny. Big bird. Yeah. You know, then I said, I think I was like, you know, they should get some of these dinosaurs out here and put some castle areas in here. You know what I mean? Get a plate came from some horned bells. You know, like actually put some real dinosaurs in here. That'd be pretty cool. But, you know, it was neat. That was cool. I like it. Yeah. The dinosaur robo-barden was really just, which they had, you know, added more dinosaurs from the last time I was there. So I guess it is kind of popular and I guess it is kind of pandering to the children. Well, think about it though. They were posing with something or other. Is that climate? I don't know. They wouldn't let you climb a direct, I have. So, wait, there was this one dinosaur as you're walking around. It has like a hose hooked up in its mouth. And it just like squirts people. Yeah, it just squirts you. So like, you know, you're afraid to walk by. We're all standing there like, should we go yet? Should we go yet? Should we go yet? And then, you know, Owen's like, just walk by the day. Oh, fuck it. And water people. And I'm saying, oh man, he set me up. I'm going to get sprayed. I'm going to get sprayed. I know it. I know it, you know. But, yeah, it was, I mean, you got to think about it this way though. I don't know about you guys, but my first, the thing that got me into reptiles was my love of dinosaurs. You know, I mean, the whole idea for me was I wanted to have a dinosaur that was alive. And the closest thing that I could come to that was a green and old. They're, they weren't even closer. You know that, right? Yeah, I do know that. But when you're five years old, you know, you want, you want the green and old. So, but yeah, I can see what I think. Yeah. Speaking of the drive back, we're going to be attacked by T-Rex. What is going on with Pennsylvania? Holy moly. The weather was absolutely horrible. Yeah. Yeah. It was bad. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to go over here. I don't know where to stay up there. We didn't tell you this. Yeah. We didn't tell Owen this story. So we're driving back, right? We're all starving now. We are starving to death and driving. I don't know. We're driving. And we're like, you sent us a message, but we didn't see the message. And we wrote, you know, Zach types in something like stop at the next place that you see. And somehow we knew that Perkins was coming up. Oh, yeah. It was on the exit or something. Like you get off and we're like, oh, he must be going to Perkins. So me, Zach, and Mike are all like, oh, yeah, I could really go for Perkins. That's going to hit the spot. That's going to hit the spot. They didn't drive it like right past it. And I'm like, what do you do? We're all screaming like, where are you going? We're like, oh, maybe you missed it. He's going to turn around. And he's like, and you're still driving. I'm like, he is not turning around. What is he doing? He didn't want to get lost. It was the moment where I'm like, I dropped past. I'm like, all the Perkins will be good for them. I don't know. I don't know what they want. And then we got the shit missed it. Oh, well, I'll get the next one. Of course, then there wasn't anything for miles that was like nothing but wood. And it's like, God damn it. I'm like, Eric and Zach and Mike are probably in the next car going that more on. You're just fooling the damn person. Yeah, they were indeed. Yeah, we were. I feel the hatred from the other car. So then he pulls up into this restaurant that it looks like when we go in there, it's your famous horror flick to where the people stop to have lunch. And the next thing you know, they'll be chopped up in the basement or something. And we're like, no, please don't be open. Please don't be open. And he's like, oh, they're close. Thank God. Sorry. Was that Morgantown? Because I think I ate that yet. Not yet, but where I finally ended up being able to pull in that was open. Was your run of the mill pub that had like an airplane sticking out the side of it. And it looked like an airplane crashed into it. And had a race car on the roof. And I'm like, please have like these have nothing going for them. But they're cheeseburgers. So let's go in and eat those. And they were pretty good. So pretty good. But then their ATM machine did it work. And no, no, I mean, they're debit and credit card stuff. Yeah. That was another fiasco. Eric, you want to buy for everybody? Just put it on Eric's tab. Yeah, it was all my tab. Money bag. Eric that traded them and albino zebra and that cover. Yeah. But no, it was one of those like they're like our credit card machines are down. And I want to be like, I'm going to talk to you about square. Square allows me to start through my phone right now, right here. It's right now, so it's just it was one of those things where it was kind of got to deal with it. And then we finally got home and, you know, I started walking around yelling at people, why are you still in my house? So get out. I had my fill of view people leave. Yeah. Yes. Come Sunday, five o'clock. Everybody get out. Everybody get that. Everybody get out. Yeah. You know, it's kind of like this. It's kind of like this show. You know, you know, come 11 o'clock. Because everyone's tired of you. Get out. Yeah, exactly. But guys, I am out. Okay. Awesome. All right. Great carpet fest. Man, just couldn't have had a better time. You threw guys were highly involved in that. And I thank each and every one of you. Thanks for coming, Bill. Definitely. All right. We'll see you. We'll see you guys in Arlington, right? August. Yeah. August. In ARBC. I'm holding you to it. I'll be there. Don't start cussing me. You got a free place to stay. So I don't want to hear you bitching. Well, that's right. Eric's going to buy my plane ticket. So we're good. Well, then you're good. You got it. Sweet. I'm going to sell as rough scale. That's all. I'll buy it. No problem. All right. All right. This is more negotiating. I felt it off air. All right. See you. Bye, Bill. See you. So. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah. I mean, so that was basically the rundown of carpet fest. Yeah. Oh, no. Go ahead. Oh, I thought I lost it for a second. No, I'm right here. The bars set pretty high. And now it's up to you to beat it next year. Yeah. Well, like I was saying, yeah, hopefully I have a house. I came back and I was talking to my wife about it. And she. She was basically saying, you know, I guess if we have a house, then next year you'll do it. And I'm like, yeah, I guess if we have a house, you know. There is that. If right there. And no one's like, please God, please God. Let them work. Please. Well, I told you each, if it's the case, we'll just split it every year. You'll do it one year. The next. You don't want your. I'll do the next. Need a co-signer. I'll help. Yeah. Yeah, well, yeah, that would be cool. People coming in. I could show them my collection and. Yeah. Why not? Your collection is so massive. It'd be like, okay. Snick tours about to begin. And then three hours later, you'd be like, okay, the next thing. Or it's about to begin. I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but you're. True, but with my guys, you can peer into the cages with your guys at all in tubs. You're going to have to be opening the tubs for people. Yeah. True story. Well, by then I'll have cages and whatnot. Don't worry. No worries. See, I have the added pressure of having to do all that. Which is always. Build your snake room, which you're looking forward to that part. Oh, hell. Yeah. Come on, man. That's going to be crazy. That's going to be the best part of the whole deal. I'm not going to care about the rest of the house. I'm going to be like, oh, well, I got to start down here. My wife is part of the house. This is where I am. If you want to fix upstairs, there's the hammer. There's some nails. Get busy with it. You know, whatever you want to do. Let me. Let me. Let me. My small army of reptile friends and I are down there picking up my snake room. Yeah. I don't know how it goes. Yeah. So. So, yeah. Now that we're through with the car professed, we can get Mariah put that radio back on track. I don't know. It just always feels like, you know, one thing takes precedence over the other. And, you know, it's, I don't know. We have our busy time. I mean, like, it's like we have our, we have our big events. You know, we had, we had Tinley and then Tinley Pass. And, of course, we roll right into the auctions for the t-shirts. And, of course, we rolled right into car professed. And now, of course, we're going to roll out of car professed and get back into a little bit of a normal point. We will probably, I want to talk to you about maybe announcing something like another t-shirt run or boosters. When we got closer to the anniversary and things like that. But, you know, we'll go get there. Of course, the next things we're going to have to do with is we have the other car professed that we get to promote that are taking place in different parts of the country. And just kind of seeing how it rolls. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, right now we get to relax. And so. That's right. And just enjoy, you know, bringing you guys and gals. Some good podcasts and some good guests and focused on what we do as far as promoting pythons. And I've delved into some other worlds. I'd like to get some other guests on as far as other species of pythons that we don't necessarily talk about all the time. Like, you know, as always, we're always going to have our focus be on, you know, morellia and carpet pythons and whatnot. But, you know, I was reaching out for somebody to do a white lip python show. I think that would be real cool. Yes. You know, it's hard to find the keepers and breeders. And sometimes a lot of them are over in Europe and they can't really help us because they don't speak English or, you know, they're English. Isn't that good? So, I don't know, but we're working on it. Yeah. I got, we have some cool shows lined up. Next week, it's going to be Matt's going to be returning, but he's going to be hitting on Borneo short tails. It seems that a lot of our fans out there like the, the bloods and the short tails. Since a lot of people will probably be, be checking them out because some of the big players now have some Borneos. You know, we figured that we'll have Matt back on. He's hatched out a lot of cool stuff this past season. Some stuff is just amazing. Really just crazy, crazy stuff. The problem with Borneos is that their genetics are just so, I don't know, you can nail it down. Yeah, so we're going to, to be hitting on that. I'm supposed to go over Matt's Friday and help him sex some Borneos. So I was hoping that maybe we could grab some, some video and maybe he could walk us through that because short tails and bloods are notorious for being hard to sex. Well, not necessarily hard, but you have to look for certain things. They're a little bit, I should say, different than say your carpet or your standard python. So we'll be hitting on that. I got a couple more blood python people lined up. After that, we have Jamie from Razor Sharp Reptiles. Jamie is probably well known for his geckos, but he's been delving into carpets as of late and he has some pythons and boas and whatnot that we'll be hitting on. And I always like that outside perspective, you know, Jamie does a lot of the, he does a lot of the shows that I shouldn't say I do, but Owen does. So, you know, they know each other very well. He's a, he's a really, really cool guy. He is. Yeah, so look forward to that. Talking to him. Let's see, after that, this, I talked to Nick today and he wants to know what's going on with the show with him and Paul. Yes, that is the June 23rd, I believe. Basically, we're going to have Nick mutton and Paul Harris on and that should be an awesome show. Thank you, that should give you your carpet python fix for quite a while. Of two guys that would be more knowledgeable about carpet pythons than those two gentlemen. We went so far into the Borneos blood and then we went to leopard geckos and now we're going to bring you like a carpet python show with the two top, with two of the top breeders in the entire world. So, you know, there you go. Forgive us for going way off right. Thank you very much. And after that, we're going to be talking to Andy Grossman. And in that episode, we're going to be talking about antiresia. So, yeah, he has a pretty good collection of antiresia and he's going to, he's a really good guy. Again, positive people, positive vibes. You know, he's well liked by a lot of people. Totally ruined my antiresia. I got some bad just ball pythons and it was so horrible. Don't do that. I don't do that. That is not proper. So, yeah, we got some cool stuff lined up. I'm working on a Woma show. I would ask you guys if there's any, you know, like, I'm thinking like things like end golems or, you know, ring pythons, white lip pythons, maclets, maclets, maclets, maclets. Maclets. Maybe a lysus as a general. Shut up. No, no, no, we're just talking about this. Yeah, yeah. If you know somebody that you would like to hear, or if, and I should say we already talked to Tom Kjogen and guys like that, so busy and what they do that it's hard for them to find the time. So, if outside of that, if you know somebody, please send me some info. Send us some info and we'll try to get in touch with them and get that worked up. Trying to spread the wings out a little bit and get those, those other species that maybe aren't necessarily always talked about. I'd even like to, I know this is going to sound crazy. No one's probably going to yell at me for this, but I'd even like to get somebody to come on and talk about Burmese pythons. They're doing some crazy stuff over in the UK with Burmese pythons, man. I'm telling you what? Burmese I'll allow, but your cap dancing very close to very dangerous line here. With? No, I'm waiting for the one day. The one day where you use your mind, you're like, we're going to have a royal pythons show and then I have to. No. I mean, then I have to drive down to your place and be senseless. We always, we always do the royal pythons in as far as, see, the keepers of royal pythons that I like. Are the guys that go without their species. So you get your little royal pythons fixed. And not to mention, there's already shows about royal pythons. So if you're into that, there's plenty of them. Yeah. And they're much better at it than we would ever be. Yeah, your work. Let's stick to what we're good at. So, yeah, I would love for there to be some different types. I'll allow Burmese pythons to get. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I'm glad we got your proof now. That's a good proof. So again, if you know anybody or if you have somebody that you think would come on and has a whole lot of knowledge and share knowledge and whatnot, just put them in contact with us or send me an email at info at Moralea Python radio.com. And we're going to just wrap this up and get the heck out. So you can check us out at Moralea Python radio.com. You can follow us on Twitter at Moralea Python. Give our Facebook page a like at Moralea Python radio. Email questions or comments to info at Moralea Python radio. You can download the show on iTunes and it is full free. I will throw out there is another podcast to get your geek on. Justin Joolander, our good, good, good friend and co author of the complete carpet Python does maybe, maybe twice a month or so. He has a podcast called Herpetological Discussions. And basically what he does is he goes and he runs through a paper and he gives you his thoughts on that paper. It's an awesome podcast, especially if you want more scientific type of thing. I love it. I think it's great. So he's doing a good job and it's now available on iTunes. So while you're over there checking out Moralea Python radio, look up Herpetological Discussions and subscribe to that as well. Please support USR. We don't say this enough. If you're in this hobby and you love this hobby, you definitely should be a member and you should be supporting USR as much as you can. They're doing great things for us and they're really helping us with this legislation and whatnot. And wherever you fall, as far as whether you think people should have re-ticks or not have re-ticks or the big snakes or anything like that, remember that this game is not just about stopping with re-ticks, they want to take it all. So we just have to protect our rights. So it's real important that they get our support and, you know, however you can do it, do it. Thank you to everybody who donated an animal or who bought an animal in the car professed auction. We're able to raise up $3,000. Thank you to all the people that bought t-shirts. You know, it's a drop in the bucket compared to some of the other auctions, but every little bit helps and you guys made that possible. So we appreciate it. They appreciate it. I don't know what else to say on that. As far as the next Carpetfest, the Southwest Carpetfest is Friday, June 19th. It starts at 8 p.m. and it runs till 1 a.m. It's at prehistoric pets. You can go over on Facebook and check out the page Southwest Carpetfest. We hope hosted by Terrell in April from designer exotics. If you're over in that area, be sure to, you should definitely go and check it out. It'll be a good time, I'm sure, and hopefully that those, they can get that rolling and have, be doing the same thing for five years to come. Plus, probably, what's that? Yeah, it would be awesome if we could get these things rolling in different directions. Yeah, absolutely. So be sure to check that out. That's coming up. That's right around the corner, June 19th. That's a couple of weeks away. So if you're in that area, man, you should go after hearing this show. All the cool things and experiences, you know, people you get to meet. I'm sure there's some pretty cool people out there on the West Coast that you could hook up with. And last but not least, for me, personally, is E.B. Morelia, E.B. Morelia.com. If you have a question, comment for me. Eric at E.B. Morelia, you can follow me on Twitter. You can find my Facebook page. You can follow me on Instagram as well, all E.B. Morelia. Look for, I will not be vending at Hamburg. This upcoming, what is it, next week? 13th? Yeah. Yeah, I will be attending. So if there's not like I have a whole lot available at the moment, but if there was something that you were interested in, you wanted me to drop off or something like that, let me know. And I can make that happen. Otherwise, just be following my website and my Facebook page for when things become available. And that's all I got. Cool. All right, for me, you can go to www.roge.reptiles.com. Or you can go to www.rogereptiles.com. We are down to very minimum babies and we only have like 12 left. Also, just like Eric, I will be attending Hamburg. I will not be vending because remember, I do not have a table. We'll be getting it back though, so we will be vending the August Hamburg show. So we hope to see everybody there. If you have anything you do want, we definitely can't deliver to Hamburg. Other than that, we have one clutch that has hatched and one that is coming up quickly touching on sick keens. So if you want to give us a list for Carmel Tiger Jags, or if you're looking for some red tigers, let us know. We can definitely look you up. With that, I'm done. I got nothing else. So we will say thank you once again to everybody who made carp effect, basic sex, and came out. We hope to see even more of you next year and that we can kind of keep this going, keep this strong. And that's all we have for us today. And we will see everybody next week, same time for some more of my Python radio. Good night. Hey, Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL, or as a reptile breeder and the owner of Proxox. I've been herping since I was a boy, and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. 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In this episode we will be hanging out and talking about all of the cool happenings at the 2015 NE Carpetfest.
Matt Minetola from Philly Herpetoculture and Zach Baez from Darkside Exotics will be joining us as we reflect on a great weekend.