Morelia Python Radio
Scrub python talk with Jim Kuroski.
In this episode, Jim Kuroski is back and ready to talk scrub pythons.
We will here how Jim's collection is coming along and we will get some tips on how to acclimate WC scrubs to captivity.
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Use ship your reptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. The materials needed to ship the reptile successfully live customer support in our live on time arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptile report.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace find that perfect pet or breeder then visit shipreptiles.com to ship that animal anywhere in the United States. We are your one stop shop for everything reptile related. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Hello everybody welcome to another episode of Moralia Python Radio. Tonight we're talking scrub pythons with Jim Kergowski. We're going to talk to him in a couple minutes. It's very very difficult to find scrub python people that want to come on the show and talk. The fans were wanting some scrub fix and we're going to give it to him tonight so we're going to find out what's going on with Jim's collection. He's got the scrub bug. If you look at what he's got going on he's got some cool stuff so we'll be talking with him momentarily. We are what a week away? A week away from carpets? Close to close to I think it's like 11 days 12 days something crazy so we're almost there. It's crunch time you guys. Yeah I know. If anybody wants to come clean my house please. It's one of those things that it's like this just kind of fell. I know even planning it but it seems like oh my god there's like no time left. It is all here. We're definitely gearing up and I've been speaking to a few people those you and a bunch of other people trying to get stuff going for the auction trying to figure out what everybody wants to drink. Trying to figure out how to cook the food that the people want to eat. I saw you cook at noodles though and so you might want to start. Stay away from that stove. I'm doing 12 things at once water is boiling. I'm like noodles and I just dumped and I didn't even love them everywhere. I'm like oh and you are half Italian. How did you fuck this up? There will be other people cooking other than me. I was talking to Mike Curtin last night and he goes are you getting ready? I'm like I'm wandering around my house and finding out he's getting ready. And then add that double. You know when you have guests coming over you know they're thinking oh crap they're going to notice this and this. But now at times 10 because now you've got to bring the snake room and be like oh my god they're going to notice that you know this one cage is a chip on the side of the corner and it's like freaking out. Just make sure everybody's drinking right before they head into the snake room. Exactly. If I get you guys horribly intoxicated you won't remember what I even have let alone the condition. So this is true. But yes it should be a great time. Just basically glorified barbecue. Pretty much. But it's a heck of a grill time. It will be. I'm going to make sure the grill is all my things scrubbed up. I'm going to make sure we're all good. You're coming Friday night to help set up I assume. And then we're going to get we're going to start getting set up Friday night with the cleanings and the scrubbing and the setting up of tables and stuff and I'm going to make sure zero is gone. And then we're good to roll. I mean I'm I'm picking up I'm building shelves and picking up a mini fridge this weekend for beer. So see how much further we push along the carpet as pushes along your house to party mode. Thank you. But yeah it's like you know but it I'm so excited about this. It's ridiculous because because I moved here in like December I had to actually have like a housewarming party or anything like that. So this is like the first trial run of the house for you know people other than like four people at once so. Right. It'll be cool. But you know I might have egg satching. Yeah. Thank you. I have eggs you read a carpet. So there might be a caramel tiger jag satching in the incubator when everybody's here. So nice. You know. Yeah. That'd be pretty cool. Everybody can help me pick my whole bed. Yeah I have I have eggs hatching too but I won't be here. You just had a quartet. Yeah. Yeah I did. Well, most people would say you got kicked in and ads on the odds because I only got one albino but it appears to be a caramel albino. Wait that wasn't just a crappy pick. You only got one albino? Yeah. Wow. Yeah one albino. This is a weird thing. I talked to Rob about this but I'm just going to throw this out there so that people would have this information. But what happened is I had the you know as soon as one pips or two pips you see the little slits and the eggs. I usually just manually you know put the eggs and give everybody a cut. So I did that. Put them back in the incubator. Didn't even think nothing of it. This one pops its head out and apparently I guess from from maybe going back in I scared it. Actually the snakes will go back in the egg when they're scared but it came out of the egg. Yeah. No it came out of the egg but what happened is like it wasn't like it didn't absorb the oak yet and out of the egg. Correct and it kind of it was weird because it looked perfectly healthy but when you flipped it over like the belly was all sunken in and then you could see that the yolk kind of trailed back to the egg and it was like wow that's kind of weird but it was just the day before it was like flicking its tongue you know like its head was popping. But he told me to put a paper towel over top of the rest of the eggs and that way you know it will kind of like not make them as nervous I guess and get back in the eggs and wait until they're ready to come out. That was the only one but yeah I lost one and one albino but a lot of caramels so a lot of caramel had albinos. But how about mine that would be some sort of stuff. You're correct. I do I do good. I believe the one the one the one that I did get I believe is a male and I believe is a caramel albino or sun glow. We'll see how he see how he progresses and see how he turns out. Yeah it's so hard to tell with albinos when they just come out of the egg because it's just like basically pink you know it's kind of like. No no no pressure but if you produce like a really really good look at sun glow that's when you can start trying to talk to me about getting into the caramel albino stuff. So. We'll get you there don't worry. Don't you worry and I'm coming. We always do. Yeah it is true. Yeah. So yeah I got I'm waiting on man this is like the longest that I don't know. It seems to me in my past years getting clutches they all came like one after the other after the other and it was kind of wrapped it up. We have a huge gap in between. You could give you that man. Yeah it's kind of weird. So I got this caramels. Did it. Yeah it was like the super caramel clutch came out first and they hatched in May and then the next question actually into June so it was like by the time those babies came out that the super caramel had like shed twice were eating and rolling and it was like a huge side difference between the two and it was insane. And then the the brettels didn't even actually August so something else so yeah the big gaps happen sometimes. Yeah it's just yeah it's kind of kind of strange I'm not used to that. I guess that's kind of like I'm going to give you a chance to you know work on this clutch and then they'll be rolling by the time the next clutch comes and you can work on that one. So yeah I guess that's a good point. I didn't think about that but yeah I don't know usually I don't know I'm not going to say that never mind. Move along. Usually I don't know. No never mind. Never mind. No jinxing tonight but yeah so I don't know not much else going on just waiting for that last clutch I got another clutch that should. Be picked out before we go to carpet fest which is the. Super caramel zebra jag and the citrus tiger and see what happens with that crazy crazy mix. But yeah other than that just waiting for carpet fest really. It should be a fun time yeah anything else going on with with you. With my guys I have no idea what my bows are doing. It's like they're huge the pregnant the pregnant they're eating what do what's going on here and then I'm being told that that could happen. And I'm like I don't know just give me the babies if you're going to have babies just do it. I don't know that's something that's going on I don't know what's going on with them. Other than that we're just trying to get things organized over here for when everybody shows up. My rough scale python just shed so everyone can feel free to check him out when they're here. So good man cool I'm going to enjoy it. Speaking of scrub pythons. We'll probably talk about this on the show but. My male Hal Mahara just kind of kicked on me. I know that this is kind of a common thing that kind of happens with these guys. But I don't know it's just just weird. It seemed like I don't know if he I don't know. I don't know. I kind of look like he wasn't doing that. Do you ever look at your snake and you can say oh man you know you can tell that something's off. So you know I tried a couple tricks and you know nothing. And I thought that he ate. But you know how like you have that. Because he because he ate down but he regurgged and then that was. Oh yeah. So that is the worst smell in the world. He is. But it's crazy because this female I have. She's just not not going to be. She just does great you know. Yeah. Some do well. Some don't do well. Sometimes you have. Or they just roll on you and sometimes they don't. I mean it's something that just kind of. Happens especially with a species that like scrubs and especially like Hal Mahara scrubs. I mean. I mean I can appreciate the fact of the. The wild caught animals but you know I don't know. Like I guess if I were to look at my place. I don't know if I'm really geared to do that you know. Maybe I don't know maybe when you have like a. A large collection you can't give it the proper care. I don't know is this questions that. I don't know. Yeah. I've kind of shied away from any kind of wild caught stuff. Even though I did. I turn my office upstairs. Into a quarantine room. I got like two four foot cages and a baby rack in there. So now I'm doing full fledged like month long quarantines of any animals that are coming into the collection. Right now the quarantine rooms full with all my whole back. I moved them up there for. I moved them up there a couple about a two months ago or something like that. It's for a month there. So it's like I was running out of baby cages and things like that and the computer systems are kind of acting up. So they're just up there right now. So if I do get anything you will get them to just. I don't know what I'm doing. So I've already ruined the rules. I might not want to start a dead sentence with this is my new quarantine room. I know. Right. It's like if I get something new it's going to have to like sit in my bedroom while I move everybody downstairs again and then be in there. So it's like. Yeah. I'll fix it later. Yeah, I guess. I guess when you're getting when you're dealing with that kind of thing, you know, wild caught or anything like that, you have to, you have to. I couldn't say how important quarantine would be. You know, I mean, especially if you have a collection, you know, an already established collection that's. Yeah. I mean, I imagine it'd be my worst nightmare to bring something into my collection. That would just move through like, I don't know, say like a sickness or something that would just go and that you can't get ahead of. And you can imagine losing half your collection to something because you didn't quarantine. No, man. I don't know. Like I'm pretty sure I just be puking like constantly want to die. So yeah, that was a topic that was brought up. You know, just mites with a large collection. I mean, oh, you know what I mean? No, that's a job like you want to quit. Oh, that is horrible. I mean, see, and that's just one thing we say. Say I got like a trio of animals that are bringing upstairs and it turns out like. You might not even be from where I got them from, say I bought them from a reputable guy at a show, but like his table was next to a scummy guy and I came home. And the three animals I just bought got mites. Now, imagine them one in a cage next to like your really expensive super caramel jag or imagine them upstairs in like a quarantine room where it's just the three of them. Like I can do the three versus like 20 something, you know, no freaking brainer. Right. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. That's kind of a that's kind of a weird sub. Well, let's let's bring him on and let's let's do it. Hey, Jim, how you doing? Welcome to the show. Or I should say welcome back. Hey guys, I look on. All right, we're going to talk some scrub pythons. So we figured we'd start with, you know, what's new with your collection? What do you got going on with new acquisitions have you made since the last time we talk? New acquisitions. I'm kind of definitely like you said, have the bug. I don't know. I'm just trying to pick up pick up everything I can. It's it's kind of been a lull here recently with imports come in or things are getting grabbed so fast. I don't even have a chance to see the post, but I have I have, you know, gotten a couple of animals here recently and I'm looking for more probably next month. You know, I'm going to be ready to buy in mass quantities if I can find them. Some recent acquisitions. I got a female southern scrub proven from Andy Maddox out of Houston. He introduced a clutch last year. They had them. I think they they kept them outside and ended up breeding over the summer and having a catch out of those guys. I was kind of taken back because I had asked him if I could buy the pair that year that they produced and he said no. And then I ended up getting a female captive bred one from him. Then he calls me out a couple of months back and he's like, hey, you know, are you still sitting in that female and I'm like, yeah, absolutely. So we, you know, I said the money and everything and he's in Houston. So it's about a about three hour drive or whatever. And I go, I go down there and, you know, check out his shop. He's got a he's got a works at a cool shop. They have lots and lots of reptiles down there. That's a pet's a plenty ultimate reptile or something like that. And I check her out and I've seen her before and she's, she's a really, really awesome snake. A little darker than some of the ones I've had in the past, but really nice look. And I kind of asked, well, you know, why are you selling her before I went over there and looked at the cage and he told me that she killed the male. Oh my God. So I'm like, oh, okay. Oh, yeah. You know, it is what it is. You know, they were housed together. So, you know, whoever, you know, you never know what happened. You know, he, she was hungry or he did something wrong or whatever. So, so I picked her up and she's a, she's a heck of a beast. She's a oh, nine, ten foot or so and has a real, real crazy attitude. But that's, you know, that's kind of what makes them special, I guess. The real screwy people. So I like her a lot. She was a cool addition. I posted up her daughter that I got for sale because I'm really not super interested in those guys because they're, you know, I don't want to say common, but a little more common, especially with the, with the imports and that kind of thing. Yeah. So I posted her up and I have a male that I, I think I got from, from you, Eric. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he's grown, you know, he was kind of in question whether he was a type two who grew or a, or a Moroccan, a rural gay. And the more he grows, I'm pretty confident that he is a, a more okay. So he's going to, he's going to be paired up this year with that female. Who would have been early this year because I got her pretty early in the season. He just didn't really show much interest. So I don't think she was a, she was ready to go at the time. And he's a little bit, a little bit young still. But the, the end of this year, or the end of, you know, 2015, 2016 season, he should, he should probably make an effort, I would imagine. Right. What else did I get? I got a bunch of helmetaras. I've got two pairs of those guys. I got the, I got one pair from, or no, I got one lone female from Cam at Bushmaster. And she was being a real, real pain. She didn't want to eat for anything. No. And I kind of worked on, you know, offering different things. And, you know, I think she went six months before she ate. But, you know, it's about, it's about patience. And not, not rushing what you're, what you're trying to own, feed her every three days. Or I'm going to try to remember, mess with her. You know, it's setting them up and leaving them alone and letting them get comfortable. Trying once a week, trying different things. You know, I tried, I tried rats of all different sizes and mice and, you know, live and pre-killed and frozen thawed and, you know, all different things. And she ended up taking, uh, frozen thawed jumbo mice after a long, long time after that six-month period. Um, but she was a big girl. You know, she's, she's pretty decent size. And she, uh, I think when they come in with any size on them, you know, it just takes them a little longer to, uh, to get established and start going. Yeah. So, so she's good. And now she's taken, she's taken small rats as well. So, uh, I'm pretty happy about that. Um, I got a little mail from somebody else. I can't remember the name of the person off top of my head. Um, and he was, he was doing really well right away. Um, and then I had some problems with shedding. Uh, we've, uh, we've got a ton of rain now, but we were having, uh, over the winter, a lot of, a lot of dry weather. It was pretty cold. So the heat was going a lot. So the humidity was, the ambient humidity was not cooperating. Uh, and even with misting and everything, I had some shed issues with him where he got a stuck shed that just would not come off or anything. I soaked him for weeks and, you know, soaked him for a day and let him dry out and then soaked him for a day and let him dry out. And finally, he went into shed again and he got that off and he's back on track. So I've got that pair. Um, they're pretty small. I would say another two years at least before I'm going to give them a shot. Um, and then I got a heads up, uh, on another pair from Ari, uh, from S&S exotics, uh, that's here in Texas as well in Houston. Uh, so I got that pair. Um, they were bigger animals as well, but they were, uh, supposedly feeding. Uh, and when I brought them home and set them up for, you know, left them home for about a week and then offered them rats and they took right away. So all of that, uh, awesome. Both of them are taken, uh, taken largest, just frozen thawed rats. They don't, uh, I don't seem to put not much weight very fast, but at least they're eating. So, uh, I'm going to... Very cool. I'm probably going to use it to, uh, a fecal and see if they got any, uh, any crazy stuff going on there. But, uh, no, no problems with them. And, you know, they are growing, but, you know, not as, not as fast as I would hope they would. You know, I'm kind of handsome to get them up to size, so I can give them a, give them a go. Are you doing anything special with, uh, their, you know, like, um, are you keeping them warmer, or are you keeping them like the rest of them, or what your approach husbandry was? Uh, for those guys, uh, right now I've got them in racks, uh, CB70 racks, but I have them in the, uh, the, the gray tubs from, uh, Reptile Basics, I think it is, or... Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so they're kept pretty dark, you know, and they don't see me, I don't disturb them. I mean, I do check them, and that's something else I'll touch on, but I do check on them quite often. Um, but, you know, I don't mess with them, but once a week when I go to feed them and, you know, check to clean them or whatever, um, and temperature-wise, uh, you know, they have the ambient light I've got. I'm running, um, I'm running ambient humidity now with a, with a humidifier in my, in my snake room, uh, that's set to about 65, uh, constantly, and I have, you know, they're, they're just running off of, uh, in a rack with a, with a thermostat on it. I'm not doing any drops in temperature, um, over the, you know, over the course of the day and night on them, except for the breeding season. I have all my lights in that room hooked up to, uh, some pretty cool digital, uh, digital timers that, uh, account for the daylight and, uh, daylight and sunset times. So it keeps the, it keeps the, uh, keeps the daylight, uh, consistent with the course of the year. Uh, and they're awesome. They work really well. I'll post them up sometime. I like them a lot, and I've run, yeah, I've run all the lights off of that, so I don't even have to worry about turning things on and off. It just comes on and off by itself, and, you know, it has a long summer hours and short winter hours. Uh, what else, what else? Uh, I keep them, I keep them on, uh, like, indented, uh, craft paper. I have some substrate. I really prefer substrate because it, you know, it holds the humidity and stuff. But, you know, when you're buying bags of, say, cypress molds or that kind of stuff, you know, you always have to worry about bugs and, you know, not, not mites per se, but just bugs in general because they store that stuff outside. Right. Right. Um, you know, I've gone to that, and then I've been like, what is all this stuff in here? And then I'll scrap it and try something else. I've done, you know, the Aspen chips and that kind of stuff as well. Yeah. But I think, you know, I can always, I was kind of go back to the paper. Yeah. Those tiny little flies out of the mulch, and that was the most annoying part of it, is like these little, like, almost like fruit flies and that thing. Yeah, tiny, tiny little things. Yeah, and that would just piss me off. I don't think it hurts the snake, but it sure is annoying. Yeah, I don't know. It doesn't hurt the snake at all, but it's still just annoying. And you put the fly strips up and all of a sudden you realize just how many there are. And you're like, "Oh, my God." So, yeah. Yeah. Just one of those things. It feels kind of crazy. Yeah. And then, you know, in the wintertime, I am giving them a night drop. Basically, basically my ambient, you know, my ambient gets pretty low during the winter, so we don't get too cold down here, but enough to bring them down, you know, to the 70s. I don't go much more than that. You know, I've been in my past success with the Southerners. You know, I cycled them just like I did my carpets, and they took for me. So, I'm not going too crazy about, you know, experimenting. You know, I'm going to do what I know worked for me before. Try to emulate it the best I can, because it was quite a little while ago. Do you feel that, what's your thoughts on the whole, I don't know, my thought with scrub is just scrubbs that they need to be acclimated through your environment, and once they are and they feel secure? I think those tubs that you're talking about are a good idea as far as not feeling, you know, disrupted or disturbed and not stressing them out. I really think that might have a lot to do with successfully breeding them, you know. I don't know, that'll be my guess. What's your thoughts? I agree, you know, I really, I monitor them all the time, right? I'm always, I'm always checking temperatures, I'm always checking the cages to see if they need clean. You know, I'm very, I'm very up on monitoring them, making sure, because, you know, like you said, you can tell when a snake is off, or if something is going on, and you, you know, people way before us have said, you know, you have to learn from your snakes, and you have to, you have to be able to recognize when things aren't quite right for them. So, yeah, I mean, the racks, the racks are great for a snake up to about, you know, that size, maybe, yeah, six foot, eight foot, maybe, then eight might be pushing in. But, you know, other than that, if you can get them yelling, get them used to that, your, your environment not being disturbed too much, but they're, they get used to you coming into the cage, right? And they know you're going to feed them, or you're going to, you're going to pick them up gently, and you place them into another bin, and you're going to clean out their cages, and you're going to put them back in there. And, you know, a lot of my animals that have been pretty aggressive, you know, and you, they'd strike at you constantly. If you open the cage, they don't anymore. They wait to see what's going on. Like, are you going to, are you going to pick me up, or are you going to feed me? I always feed on the same day, every day, or every week, always at night. So, it's a very, very set schedule. That way, when I go in during the day to do maintenance, they're not expecting to be fed. You know, I am on a seven-day feeding schedule, so nobody's extra hungry. Everybody gets a appropriate size road, and I don't go too crazy. I'm big or small. And I don't really mix it up that much, as far as throwing in chicks or quail. I mean, I don't see anything wrong with that, but I don't just don't do that personally. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I just don't know how you'd be able to handle that with some of the larger animals. You know, once they get to a certain size, obviously a rack won't quite work. I mean, you could go with a freedom breeder with the, you know, big Christmas tree tubs that everybody's all uppity about, maybe, but... Yeah, I mean, Christmas tree tubs are cool, but they're opaque as well. I mean, they're not total isolation. And if you were going for that, you know, the best would be to get those freedom breeder huge python racks, and maybe just paper cover the windows or whatever. Yeah, I've seen ones that come without the windows, but even then I'd be a little nervous if I'd opened the drawer that's at like chest height with the, on the side of it. I mean, that's just me. So, I mean, obviously we've had scrubs here that would learn our routine and kind of calm down a little bit more, but then we had others that would learn our routine and then use it to like ambush us. Like, they would know what the sound to unlock the cage makes and they would be like kind of doing their own thing, but once they heard that key turn, they'd be up and out. Have you noticed that a lot of you guys are kind of learning your routine? No, I mean, they know, it's all, for me, it's about the timing. And I don't know why it works, but it works for me. At night, they know, I don't touch any of my snakes at night, period. People over, you can peek in, but we're not taking them out, you know what I'm saying? I only handle them or take them out to clean them during daylight hours, and I only feed them at night. So, I haven't had that. I've actually seen the opposite where they know it's feeding time and they know it's not feeding time. They will become alert, you know, and, you know, especially in the tubs because it's, oh, they get, you know, a little bit startled when it gets slid out sometimes, but, you know, I've never, you know, caught a bite to the face or anything, and it is, I have big racks too, and I'm kind of kicking myself in the butt for buying, you know, like an eight-foot tall rack or whatever it is, because the one's up high. The one's up high, you're like, oh man. So, I purposely put the nasty ones down low, and you put the ones right there. They don't hurt up high. But they normally wait, you know, they wait. They look at you, they analyze what's going on, and typically they don't strike at you. I've had some, you know, where I've been messing around too long and trying to take pictures or whatever. They'll have a go at me, but thankfully, no, no seriously. Okay, I got to get rid of this snake because it's too smart. You know, it's going to kill me one of these days. I've had those all night. I don't know if I'm just an idiot or they're just smart, too smart. But, right now, right now I have my tenon bars. So, I have three tenon bars, and my male tenon bar is just psychotic, but the two females are actually pretty chilled out, pretty down well. And I was dumb enough to put the male tenon bar all the way up at the top of the rack. And he's still small because he's a tenon bar, but still, you know, it's annoying after a bit to have death from above. But I can still imagine 12 feet of that. So, have you noticed any kind of difference in attitude with the different localities? Yeah, absolutely. Typically, the how my hairs are very shy. Yeah. A lot of them, you know, the ones I, I mean, only have four, so I can't really speak for every single one. In my opinion, in my opinion, in my opinion, when I mess with them, you know, you can touch them. You know, in a lot of scrubs, you'll touch them when they're just relaxed. Like, I can slide the cages open and they won't even move. They'll just stay where they're at. They don't get all crazy. And I'll touch them. And some of them, you know, some of the other species are, you know, I guess they're species, maybe. They'll spin around and they'll be like, oh, right, and they want to kill you. But these guys, they'll just piss and they'll kind of bury their heads a little bit, and they're all different. You know, they have their different personalities. My male, Raris, he's the smallest male I've got. He just hisses. He'll never strike at you or anything. He's pretty chill. He'll kind of eventually get agitated and kind of move away a little bit. But he's not bad. My females aren't that bad. My larger male, Ari. And I named him after Ari because Ari and Ariana, because Ari tipped me off on getting them. So they told me about them. I had to honor him and name them. The male, he's the only one I have that'll actually strike prey and coil and eat it. And a lot of them, I'm finding are weird like that as far as wanting to eat. They want me to just, and this is what I do, and it's a little weird. But they'll take frozen thawed rats, but they want them dried off, and they want them just left in the cage. And they won't eat them right away. Sometimes, you know, I don't normally stay up too late, you know, after I feed them. But I have looked in the past and come in hours after I put them in there, and they're not eaten, but then in the morning they're gone. So, you know, it's kind of just, and if you were to, in those same scrubs, if you try to tease feed them, they won't eat for you. So it's all about learning. Yeah, so it's learning what they want. And if you turn them off because you scared them with the rat, they're not going to eat. And they might not eat for a couple weeks if you make them agitated enough. So it's, I mean, I just, I got little trays, you know, that my rats come on, and I just, I throw the rat out and I dry it off. I put it on the tray, and I put the tray in their cages, and they all have hides inside the rack. And normally, they're just inside their hide, and I just set the tray in there, close it up, and come check in the morning who ate and who didn't. But that's how I do that. So, I've got all my helmet heroes except the one male, each that way. I have an Aru female that eats that way. Wow. And the new, the two, also, can I tell you about the Tamika's that I got? No. And you're going to be like, what? Tamika's. No. I know that. I don't know. So I, and they, well, I've tried that. I was told to eat that way as well. They just went, they were in shed cycle since I got them. So they haven't, they haven't taken for me yet, but I'm sure they will be the same way. Yeah. I saw it ran across a random post that somebody posted up, and speaking about, it was speaking about Tana. It was speaking about Tana bars. And I'm, you know, I actually had my female Tana bar pass away from the same thing that my, my male helmet hero did with the stuck shed, which is stupid. I mean, I don't know. No, it's like, you know, I could have prevented it. I'm pretty sure if I would have been a little more on top of it. But, you know, it sucks anyways. It sucks letting an animal get that way. I mean, I, I check them all the time. But, you know, maybe I just didn't notice it. He was, you know, he was too dry or, or whatever. She was too dry. So she passed away and I'm looking for another female. I ran across this guy's post. I was like, yeah, you know, I want a female and I'm talking to him. And then he posts up or I were talking and I'm like, he's got these other, other, you know, scrubs that have never been imported before or something. And I'm kind of like, I'm kind of like BS. You know, every scrub has probably been imported. Yeah. I'm like, yeah. Unless they're like octopus in the back, right? Some, acapella go or whatever, right? So like, do they have orange sides? And he's like, yeah, they do have orange sides. I'm like, okay, sold. No pictures. No, not then whatever I said sold. I won't. And it turned out he had a pair and they're nice size. They're small, you know, four footers, you know, something like that. Really, really nice colors. And I picked those up and they're amazing. And the weird thing is, you know, with that locality, he's telling me that he has very accurate and reliable information that they were caught just north of Tamika. Tamika is not in the central highlands. It is south of the range. Oxival is somewhat south of the range. It's in the southern part of it. And, you know, there's a lot of, I think that's a very misunderstood. Locality. And I personally don't think it comes from the highlands at all. I've seen really, really big similarities with some of the southerners. And I think I talked about this maybe last time. The southerners that I bred, they, some of the babies had orange sides when they were born. And the parents obviously were not, you know, that locality. I mean, they did not have orange sides as adults at all. They didn't have the yellow chins or anything. But those babies straight up had bright orange little bands on their bellies. So, you know, my personal opinion and obviously I haven't been over there would love to someday, but I can't do it right now, is that, you know, you have some lighter, lighter face southerners that are probably from Runge or, you know, really far south. And then as you're going higher in elevation towards the mountains, you've got those other maybe in between type ones that are the darkish ones that we're seeing these days. Which are almost the color of the, you know, I'll call them central. I'm going to call them orange sided ones. And, you know, they almost look like that because my female that I bred, you know, ten years ago or whatever, she was a very dark patterned animal and the male wasn't. He was a very light animal and I did get, you know, those orange sides. So, I don't know if it's, you know, just, they get darker as they get farther north, or if those are truly isolated or how it works. But, you know, Ari's been up in the highlands and, you know, other people I've talked to, you know, Bowens are the only thing that are up there. So, you know, I don't think that that's probably the truth, you know, until we get somebody to go up there. And, you know, I've been bugging him to write a scrub book, but he's too busy. He's too busy on his bowens, maybe. Yeah. Oh, my God. Someone started to go fund me so I can tag along with him and do some scrub research. Do it. Yeah. So, I don't know. I mean, I'd love to get the info, you know, so I know what's going on because as of right now, you know, I don't want to even breathe something that doesn't look identical to its counterparts because you just don't know what your meso is. Especially because, you know, everything is important. What's your thoughts on? Do you think that there's, do you think they work like, say, the carpet pythons, where there's various subspecies of scrubs, or do you think that they're all one group? They're so different. You know, some you can, you can, just their body structures and, you know, we haven't done a ton of advanced scalation research or anything, or I don't know of any. I'm always looking at pictures and looking at details about the animals that, you know, if you can get a good enough picture to kind of look at some different things. They're just different in size and in, and I know it, you know, it's got to be genetically proven, I guess, to actually warrant them to be a subspecies or whatever, or geographically they have to be, you know, isolated, or, you know, there's got to be researched to back it, but I think they are. I think they're all so different. The, the waminas, you know, they've got pink tongues. Well, none of the other ones have pink tongues. The lock-ins are bright yellow, Tannenbards are tiny, Halmaheras are, you know, super skinny and just kind of different. It's just, I don't know, I think they are, you know, not, not, you know, the green tree pythons that are, that are all up there and from the different localities, they all kind of look different, they have different patterns, they have different colorations. Different little groups in that have, have their own characteristics. You know, and they were talking, I'm not too much of a, of a count-row guy, but, you know, I know there was talks of splitting them into two species as well. So, it just takes research. I, I definitely don't think they're, they're the same. Well, I think that they recently did, I don't know if you're aware of Daniel Nautouche who's talking about how the scrub pythons in Australia, he believes, are two different, two different things. You have the, you know, like the Amethystina, and then you have what would be considered King Hornai. But they split them. Well, not officially, but, so there's a, another scrub python in the Cape York, I guess, you know. So, they're, they're both in the same area. Yeah, yeah, yeah, believe so. They overlap or something like that, yeah. Yeah, that's where he was from and he was saying that the, I believe it's the ones that are farther north are, which I guess would make sense since, you know, Australia and New Guinea connected at one point. The ones that are farther north are more like what you would say, a southern scrub. And then the ones that are farther, you know, as you're going down, Australia, they're King Hornai. Interesting. Yep. Excellent to me. I mean, if land bridge at one time or another. Yeah. I wonder if there's even scrubs out there that we don't even. No, I think of that one. Remember that one that. Was that was that Tom Crutchfield posted up? You're worried that crazy pattern like dark orange. Crazy thing. That was a couple years ago, wasn't it? Now they think about it. Yeah. Yeah, whatever happened with that. Well, I'm sure there are. I mean, they're supposed to bismarck a cappella. I was supposed to have them and there's so many other little islands. You know, in the volcanoes and that kind of stuff. I wouldn't imagine, you know, I wouldn't doubt it. I wouldn't doubt if there's things even closer to. You know, south, southwest of there. You know, you've got islands all the tomorrow island, East Timor or West Timor or whatever the heck it is and that kind of stuff. You know, I don't know if the currents aren't just right. So maybe they never drifted over there. But, you know, there's so many islands up there off the, off the western coast. It's less popular that, you know, I saw an old import listed, listed something called from Wagio Island. Never, I've never seen it. And that's sort of, yeah. But they're listed and I mean, the prices are there. And it had Tamika's as well, which, that's the only reason I found it, is because I was trying to figure out if anybody else marked that locality or, you know, had brought things in from that locality and it was on that price list as well. So, it's really interesting. You know, I'm sure there's stuff that we haven't seen. So I guess it would be scrubs that I guess, because the same thing goes with certain other animals or it's like cost effective for them to go to these islands to collect these animals. Yeah, absolutely. There's some islands that they just don't go to anymore because it's not cost effective. So, yeah, I mean, if you have to boat to the island or it doesn't, you know, all these places have airports, you know, and that's, a lot of the names probably came from the airports. You know, they might have been collected locally in that area and then came out of that airport. But, you know, Tamika has an airport and, you know, up on the northern side of Hellmajera, there's an airport and that kind of stuff. So, you know, it's, yeah, they're not going to go these Ranky Dink Little Islands to get these obscure snakes that I would pay, I would pay top dollar for. But, you know, for them, you know, they're getting a couple of bucks or whatever for a snake, you know. Obviously, if the imports are coming in and, you know, people like Cam and them are selling them for $175 a piece, and then he bumped his prices to $275 here recently, which hurt me a little bit. I mean, I guess we made them too popular or something. Yeah. But, you know, if there is peace selling them for that much, then the person that actually collected them probably got a dollar for it or something U.S. if that. Two-hour, a two-day boat trip up to some tiny island to get you. Some awesome scrub is probably not going to happen unless you've got some friends over there that will do it. Yeah, you're willing to do it. You give them $5 to go get it. So, yeah. This may be a crazy question, but can you do it? If you wanted to charter a boat and go there, could you do that? Well, I'll tell you what. I mean, obviously you can go over there. It's not the most hospitable place ever. They don't speak English for one. And, you know, if you're going to some of these really remote places, they probably don't even see tourists. You know, you've got divers and bird people that go out there. And that, for me, that'd be your best bet is kind of tag along with some of these birders or, you know, especially if it's your first time going over there. You know, that's what I plan on doing unless you go with people that have been before. Right. You know, because a lot of the things I found for the helm of errors and that kind of stuff, you know, it's birding reports. Oh, well, we went to such and such island to see the bat colony, the flying fox colony, and we saw a scrub python or whatever. Now, actually, you know, have pictures or show or give it the true scientific name because I'm actually identified it. Okay. So, I mean, they're there. I mean, it's just how do you get about doing it and then getting from place to place and getting your fees or whatever you need to get into the country. It's a lot of research that has to be done. It's pretty intimidating. And I would assume there had to be some sort of licensing agreement, maybe not even on the end of the island party. It's like the animals for getting them back into the States. I guarantee you, studies, et cetera, would have to be involved in a lot of fun crap. Yeah, because, I mean, they have export quotas. Yeah. And, you know, that stuff's listed. If you go out on the web, you know, you can download the quotas. And I think they only allow, like out of Indonesia, they only allow 750 live scrub pythons to come out. Wow. So, I mean, you would have to find somebody that does it and have them send them to you, I would imagine, and probably pay them pretty heavily because it comes out of their quota. Because I would imagine they have their individual quotas as well. I don't know how that works, but that's my assumption. I would kind of assume the same thing. It's almost like a fishing like conglomerate, they have their own personal quotas of how much they can take. So, yeah. Well, to know, it's so pick your own. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I would love to go pick my own. I don't think that's going to happen. Not a Christmas tree farm here. Maybe we'll have to push a read to get what do you call it together, a trip together. Yeah. Yeah. He's going to go to the Highlands and he's going to be like, okay guys, see you later. And we have to go. I mean, trying to plan a trip. I mean, I looked and I looked at all these little rinky dink airlines and whatever because you have to take, you know, we're so spread out. You'd have to go to one locality at a time. Which really sucks because I'd like to go see them all in one trip, but I doubt that it would ever happen. Yeah. I need to meet somebody rich with their own plane to just like, or helicopter and I don't want to hop me around. So, if you know a guy. We know a guy who's really rich. Well, let me think. Oh, I don't want to hear it. Yeah. Oh, it brings a snake for it. You'll burn all our cash on more snakes. So, yeah. Yeah, right. What do you think of, I'm curious of your thoughts on moving scrubs out of Morelia. Is that a go for you or are you still on the fence or have you embraced it? I've embraced it. That's a go for me. And I was actually a little, a little perturbed that you didn't change your opening thing to simile up on radio. I think you really can't. I would have liked to hear that, but you know, whatever. Yeah. I mean, it's, it is what it is. You know, if the research was done and, you know, it was accepted by the community and then on and I accepted as well. Following. You might articulate it. Malayo, Malayo Python. You know. So, yeah, I'm going with the masses. Right. I'm kind of going that route. It's still something we were clinging to hope. It's kind of funny. It always seemed like Morelia was like kind of a, you know, a catch off or everything with a prehensile tail. So to speak, you know. We had a prehensile tail. Morelia. You're Australia done, Morelia. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is true. Kind of getting a little bit more of a vested interest in scrubs. In general, as well as other, you know, Indonesian Python. So it's cool. I like it. I think there's a lot more people out there that are kind of getting the bug as well or at least getting interested in them. You know, there's a lot more people on the forums that like Facebook forum and stuff or Facebook groups. That are kind of kind of into them. I just recently started one myself. Yeah. Today is a matter of fact. I don't really know what I'm going to do with it. I kind of just created it because I wanted to. I don't. I think I want to keep it small and I want to think I don't know if I'm going to do just people that have produced scrubs in the past or. Or what? I don't know, you know, I don't know what I want to do as far as ex concern, but I do. You know, I did set it up and added a couple of people to it just to play around. I'd like to, I'd like to make some, you know, I think I'm building some decent relationships with some of the importers. Okay. And I'd really like to potentially bring in large quantities of animals if I can get them. That would be, I know there's. Well, a lot of people have talked, a lot of people have talked about it and tried it and whatever, but, you know, maybe, maybe I don't have any direct connections to Indonesia, but, you know, I know some people here. And, you know, if I could get some and get some established and, you know, so that not so many are, you know, in really bad shape when they're getting sold. You know, I'd just rather, I'd rather maybe even tame them down. You know, I have some routines that I do to work with this nice to tame them. You know, if I could maybe get a nicer looking, better quality snake on the market that has a little better attitude and stuff, I think it can't hurt. And I want as many as I can get anyways. So, the point, the win-win, I mean, I've seen people take that kind of approach with conjures or they used to, where they bring in a bunch, raise them up, and then when they had a good established, you know, animal to sell, they would do that. And they became kind of well known as the go-between between the importers and the general guy. So, if you're really cool to do that with scrubs, I mean, it would be kind of a nice little stepping stone for everybody to get into. So, yeah. I mean, maybe people want them, but they don't want to, you know, well, I don't want them because they die, or I don't want them because they're mean, or I don't want them because they're, if festive with parasites, or they're all stamped up, or, you know. And I mean, they come in that way. They're collected from the wild and they sit in shipping containers for God knows how long come across the ocean or whatever they are. I don't even know how they get here, honestly. But, you know, it's a long time and, you know, they're dehydrated and they're messed up. And, you know, and some of the people just sell them as is, as you know. And I think there'd be a market for nicer cleaned up ones. I mean, I'm really, really excited about the news that, you know, a lot of people got clutches that are coming or clutches on the ground. I mean, you know, I think, I think Waminas are coming out this year should be hatching out this year, which would be awesome. I don't have them. I love them. They're one of my favorites. Yeah, I do like, so I want to pair two of those, at least. But yeah, I mean, in the, you know, in the meantime, why not, why not get myself some more scrubs and, you know, maybe hook some guys up. I also get pick of everything that comes in, so it's good for me too. Yeah, I mean, it does. And then you, you know, you can hook your buddies up and you can, yeah, it's cool. Why not, you know? It's good, yeah. I mean, you know, like, like, keep messing around, bring them all in and be like, all right, this one I like, this one can go, this one I like, this one can leave. That's, you know, it's all good. It's all good. I love it. So, I mean, it's something, you know, I, yeah. I've been doing, you know, I did the carpets for a long time and, you know, don't get me wrong. I really enjoy carpets. They were one of my, one of my all-time favorites. I mean, it was all I was about with, you know, variety of pythons.com and, and that kind of stuff back in the day. But I, I just felt that I had to move on to something else. I needed to challenge myself with, with a different animal or, you know, species or whatever. So, you know, I, sometimes I have problems focusing. And I just really want to focus on the scrubs now. And just try to, try to get a bunch in and get them cleaned up and, and try to get some more captive, captive clutches on the ground. I'm really mad about my, my, my, uh, lock-in. It's not, uh. Yeah, the engineer. It looked like you were getting in walks or something. Oh, oh, I have a lot. They were mating like crazy. They, they must have made it 20 times. Every time I put him in there, he'd mate with her. Uh, and she fooled me. She got dark. And then she went into shed and I'm like, oh, yeah, it's coming. It's coming. And then 30 days went by. And I'm like, no! Uh, cuz she, she had me fooled, man. I, I, she was looking really big in the butt. And I was, uh, I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, get him. This is awesome. Uh, she, but she's small. You know, I, I knew this was probably her first possible year, if that. And, you know, so I got plenty of time. And heck, I thought they were too female for the longest time. Uh, they were actually Stella and Virgo, uh, or Virgo. Uh, Stella and Virgo, uh, because one of them striped and one of them had, like, starry patterns on it. So I went Latin names with those. Um, yeah, and I, I thought it was two girls. And then I approached them months and months ago. And it was like, oh, damn, I actually got a pair. This is awesome. And then I totally forgot. And I was not even going to put them together this year. And I was like, wait, wait, why is this a male? And I, uh, so I'm not reproded and I'm like, sure enough. Yeah, I'm, you know, putting them together. But I almost missed out this year because I didn't get anything. But I almost missed out. I'm even putting them together because I was stuck on thinking I had two girls. Uh, well, from this year along the most other people, you just got locked. I mean, you know, oh, they got, they, they went crazy. Absolutely crazy. Something's right there. I don't, I don't, I mean, they could still go. He just got back on food last week. Oh, really? So you picked that one up. I mean, he wanted, he wanted to go. And I mean, I just kept putting, I mean, she might still pop something. I don't know. They've still been breeding. So I will, uh, keep us from what I heard. Sometimes they go in the summer here. Oh, they, they're one of those, one thing, they end up laying eggs and like, like fricking August or something stupid. In the fall, yeah. Yeah, you had some babies in like, you know, October. So. Yeah, my, the one screw I got, I think was hatched in December or September or something like that. Wow. It was real late in the year. They actually bred outdoors in the, the Texas summer. It's just weird. Maybe people are missing it because they're not putting them together when they should. Yeah, you never know. Everybody's, everybody's putting them together in the spring. And when you really need to put them together in the fall, I mean, you never know. That might be it. Then I mean, I might just be like, they, they might be summer breeders. You might not want to put them together until like August. I mean, those things are breeding outside in Texas summer. I mean, how hot does it get there during the summer in Texas? I have a hundred and something. Yeah. A lot of names. Yeah. Yeah. Geez. And you never know, because I mean, I think most people, most people breed like, particularly in the pythons in the fall. Yeah. I've heard that. People that I know are beautiful. Right. Yeah. And they don't cool. They don't even cool them. It's really weird. And I did pick up a couple of those two speaking of, speaking of not focusing. [Laughter] I don't know. Just the whole band thing. The whole band thing. You know, actually, when I went to Andes and I picked up that, that female, that, not the big female, but the original female. I picked up just the hell I know, and articulated from him, because the wife was like, "Oh, you know, it's, it was close to something." And she's like, "Do you want anything? You know, if you see anything else, I'll buy it for you." So I was like, "You know what? I've always wanted one of these." And, you know, so I bought her, and she's an awesome snake, man. And her mom is an absolute monster. She's the hugest snake. And this girl is, they must have the same big bone genes, because she's, like, 14 months and already 9 foot eating jumbo rats. Wow. But super sweet. I mean, the nicest snake ever. And so, and then the band was coming on. I was like, "I'm going to get a deal and get a male." So I got a, they, uh, a motley sunfire, had a purple little bino. So, those will be, uh, those will be an other side project I really shouldn't be messing with, but I'm going to, because I want to. Something else I shouldn't be doing, but why not? I mean, hey, if you ever want to retake, grab them up now, just to be safe. I, uh, I'm going to, I'm going to be moving soon. And really what kept me from, like, even considering it among a couple other things, but one was really the space. You know, it's just, you know, they need a huge cage. Yeah. And they, they're moving and then the only holding you back is that you're short and that you're probably just a fan of them. But they're such beautiful, beautiful snakes. You know what I mean? You're obsessed with a big body, big snake and that's, like, re-kick personified. So, yeah. Well, I mean, it was only, it was a logical, it was a logical progression after scrubs, right? What's bigger and still an attitude, right? I'm like, well, it looked like I'm going to articulate it. Yeah. I mean, thankfully my, the two I have are pretty docile. I mean, the female, she's totally cool. You know, from day one, I'd hook trainer. Every time you open the thing, you rub her with the hook and then move her a little bit and grab her tail and take her out. She's never shown any aggressiveness out of the cage at all. In the cage at night, she smells those rats and she's ready. And I did have, I did have one little scary incident where I didn't heat the, the rats must have cooled down a little bit or something. And when she struck, she actually struck towards the light that's in her cage as opposed to the rat. Yeah. But nothing, nothing scary, you know, you, you mess with her and tell her it's you and then you pull her out and it's good. And they're so predictable compared to scrubs. You, you know, exactly. You can anticipate when they're going to strike their, their pretty, they're pretty easy to read if you're, if you've had some scrubs. Oh, yeah, that could be me. You have to, you definitely have to appreciate their strike range and, and not that I've had to, but I've seen lots of other videos with ones where you really got to be on your, be on your toes. But yeah, I mean, I think they're really cool. And all the morphs that are out there, it's just, it's crazy. Yeah, I think if they were, if they were smaller, or if you could somehow get them the size of like, and you knew that they were going to stay carpet Python size. Oh my God, that, that I'd be done. You would have been insane. Well, I mean, the super, the super dwarfs are pretty small. I mean, if you get a true super dwarf, you're talking, you know, pretty tiny. That's like six, eight foot. There you go. You know, like, with it, when it comes to, when it comes to the retics, as much as like, I'm a morph guy with carpets, usually when I step outside of the carpet realm, I usually prefer the natural type. And it's really dig a regular looking retic. I mean, they're really hard. It's just out of this world. And I mean, it really is the natural wild type pattern, you know, in the colors. Like my female is, she gets so light sometimes and has this like silver to just silver with the black and yellow. I mean, it is so gorgeous. But then again, I love the like, sunfire, super sunfire purple motley. Oh, yeah. Like it's like, like blow your mind. You're like, holy crap. You know, and they don't look that great when they get older, but, you know, some of the like, ghost sunfires and the, the, the, the, I mean, they're just, oh my God, they're so gorgeous. And I have funny, they're a pretty colorful snake, you know, they're just, they're crazy. So they are gorgeous. I said my first one for like a month. I ended up rescuing a motley female. And it's like, I'm like, oh, they banned them. And I finally get my first one. Hurray. Good job, Owen. So, you know, I had it for a little bit. He was really cool. And I was actually really tempted to keep her, but ended up just not being the space, not having the space required and all that fun stuff. So ended up getting rid of her, but it was fun to have toilet it for a while. You know, it's amazing. It's amazing. You're holding a snake of that size. Yes. It's just in the power. I mean, it's, we're totally getting off the scrub subject, but we are. I mean, I can only talk for so long. It's not like I got 20 coaches on the ground or anything cool like that. I have my collection. I'm trying to, trying to boost it up, find some things, you know, but it's just, you know, I have the weird things, the other things. Like I have, have some water pythons and I like them a lot. I've got a reverse trio of those and what other weird things do I have? You like things that fight. It's like me. Things that just fight. I think I do. I think I like challenges, you know, I've always been into crazy things. My water python is crazy. Like she throws us, I keep the front of her cage cup or bin covered because she throws herself at the plastic if I walk by. So, yeah. Yeah. Mine aren't too bad. I got captive, I got captive born ones from, from Red Bloom. And, and they, they are, and they just started getting better. Like at first they were, they would just fly around and like, flop around and do these weird like full body launch strikes all over the place. But now I've got them, I've got them coming down a little bit so I'm hoping that they're going to, they're going to mellow out a little bit. And they do. I mean, I can kick them out now and I just got to open the bin, lift up the hide and pick them up right away. But if you kill each other, they want to nail you. Yep. That's actually, I got my boy, it's from Brent too. And he's really fine. It's a female who was produced by a friend of mine. She's the psychopath. So, you know, I kind of feel bad that in a couple of years he's going to have to go breed with her. So, one of those things, you know, but they're, they're such a cool species. I, I dig the live asses stuff. So, yeah, I like them too. And that's kind of my, my other thing. You know, there's some other things I'd like to get. I love to get some, some black phase white lips and, to more Python, Zapadora, you know, there's, there's so many other things that I'd love to get unfocused with. But, you know, probably, but I'm really, really going to try hard to, to keep my focus as the main focus on my collection is, is grow Python. At least, at least, you know, if I can get one pair of each locality, including some patternless here and there, then I'll be happy. But that's going to be tough to do, I think. Yeah, I, I did really dig, you know, patternless, well, Nina, I really did dig the pattern with the most things. You know, they're kind of funky and I just like to see what they, what the actual genetics are, you know, I don't, I'm not really that, that cool on their looks because it's a patternless snake, but I'd like to see is it, is it codominant, is it recessive, is it dominant, you know, what. What is it, and how does it work? There's a few patternless kicking around out there. I mean, has there been any. Oh, yeah, there's a wash. Okay. I mean, I just don't know anybody that's done anything with them. Yeah. I mean, I've seen, I've seen, like, I have a patternless, and actually, I've seen, I have two patternless pattern bars, so obviously, patternless happens all the darn time, but I've not seen it in too many other things. Would it be cool to see any other localities? Yeah, I was, I heard from, I think, Yasser a long time ago said that, or somebody said it, and I believe it, I guess. I don't know where it came from, honestly, but somebody told me a long time ago that with Tannen bars, the axanthic patternless is the dominant variation. I've heard that, and we're just, there's that many. The axanthic, and the axanthic pattern would be the least, the least common. Yeah. So, but, you know, the internet, you know, maybe some of his recycling trash, or maybe I'm just recycling trash. Well, we'll find out. I think Ryan, Ryan, y'all, there's somebody who probably, I keep read a bunch back in the day, I think he's probably the one that stuff came from him, and he probably got rid of his own nick. I think Nick will be that, so. Yeah, Nick and Ryan are. Yeah. Nick and Ryan are bunch. Yep. It's interesting, I'd love to see what goes on. I'd love to see if we can get something else crazy to come out, perhaps. Yeah, that would be cool. But, you know, also nothing beats just a really nice, like, really nicely colored jar. I mean, those with the contrast between the stripes and the pattern and the fact color, you know, Dave Means was producing his really nice, but a brightly colored jar. Those were just awesome, everything. So, you know, I'd love to see the different kind of tweaks you can do, but I'd love to see some really nice, you know, lime-gred animals. And it kind of pops. Yeah. And that's the other, that's another weird locality, right? Because there were some talks about, well, Mina's aren't really from, well, Mina's. Well, Mina's are from Jaya Pura. Yeah, yeah. And all the barn necks are from the bird head peninsula. Yeah, I think variations, you know, what are they? The kafau and the, you know, some of the other obscure barn necks. The Mina quarry and things like that. Yeah, they definitely looked, you know, and where the hell did those go? Because I had all of those before, and now I can't get them to save my life. And it really makes me mad. They just stopped bringing them in, and I mean, we had a few animals where it was like we had one lone female because it came in somehow, somewhere crazy, and then tracking down the boy seemed to be like hell on earth until we ended up passing the buck on to another scrub breeder who was really into it, who, from what I've heard, still hasn't been able to find a pair for the thing. We had a, I forget what it was. And I kicked off to you for a little bit. What was that? The kofai. The kofai. Yeah. Yeah, it was the kofai. Kofai. And yeah, kofai. I'll call it everyone. Why do you think it has to be so hard? Yeah, right. Trying to get land, trying to get land names is hard enough. Now I have to try to remember, you know, Indonesian names. From island names. Yeah. That's like, wow. That was a beautiful snake. Oh my God. It was gorgeous. It was the hell on earth, but she was gorgeous. And it was like she had very little patterns and had just these black, kind of like, somebody looked through the, they threw black paint at her every once in a while. And that was it. Down her back. And we could not, for the life of us, find a male that would go with her. And of course other people like just breeder of a barnock. And then you want to smack them. No. So many, so many just posted today. They crossed a freaking helmet arrow with a, with a car, a jack carpet. What? Oh, yeah. That was last year. First and can we burn their house down? Yeah. Well, I posted two things. A cry, a cryomodicon and a pukeomodicon. Yeah. It just makes it makes me sick. And one of those that is computer at that moment. Yeah. I was like, no, you didn't. I mean, at least it's, at least it's a crazy hybrid. So it doesn't even really look like a scrub so much. But if you're, if you're inner locality reading things right now before anybody knows anything, I'm fairly sorry for you. And I don't want to be your friend. Or just scrubbing things. I mean, it was like, "Cool, just to produce a clutch of serum helmet arrows." Come on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, I mean, people get, people get, I'm sure people get tired of waiting. Or tired of missing. It's just not working. Yeah. And then I'm like, "Yeah." I'm like, "Well, I got this big breed of oil." "Well, hell, let's stick her with this carpet pipe on." Or, "Let's do this or that." Oh. No. It is. Well, I mean, I really don't blame them, I guess. But I sure as hell wouldn't buy one and, I don't know. How do you market that thing? I mean, who would want to go? I guess there's always going to be that one guy who just thinks it's cool looking and wants to buy it. But like, yeah, there's hybrid, there's hybrid lovers out there. I mean, I'm sure y'all should pick one up. Maybe, I don't know. I know there were some, there were some eerie and Jaya scrubs. Oh. Yeah. A couple of you, maybe your, your back or whatever. I almost, I almost convinced myself to buy them just to have them. Because I like, at that time, I really liked both of those. Those, you know, types of, types of snakes. But then I was like, "What do you want me to do it?" Yeah. Yeah. "What do you want me to do it, man?" So I, I passed. And they were going for cheap too. I mean, they were a couple years old already in, you know, 700 a pair or something. I was like, "Yeah!" Maybe, maybe not. Yeah. But I, I, I want to go. The, the one that really took me was the, uh, Bollens with the I.J. They call it the Colens. That was cool. Oh, it's a Colens. That was a cool looking snake. Oh. That was the worst maze ever. Yeah, but it was, it was cool looking. I mean, it was a, I don't know. You know, in the Morellia world, that's blasphemy, but that was cool looking. Yeah. It was like one of those-- Sure. Just like you just said. Make some awesome things, you know, like, like a bad ass jungle jig, diamond jungle jig, mixed with a Milwaukee. I mean-- Who knows? That could, that could make something really freaking cool, but-- Didn't they do that? Didn't they do that golden moon python or something? Yeah, they were the moon python or something, so many candidates. Yeah. 10 years, 12 years ago or something. Yeah. I'd love to see some pictures of adults of those. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. 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I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I don't know what carpet they do. I have a handling thing that I do. It works pretty well. Once I get them out, I just keep them focused on something and keep them reaching to get to something, which kind of preoccupies them with not wanting to turn around and hit you. Then I just hand under hand along their bellies and stuff and kind of just not restrain them at all but just kind of let them go where they want to go and keep them in that flight mode. That seems to work a lot. It's really calmed a lot of mine down. At least it being accepting of handling, not obviously trustworthy. I'm just going to let a call around my neck or my shoulder or something. Enough to not be too scared about going in and hoping it out and putting a bare hand on it. I'll start with gloves. If I've got them, I know they're biting. There's no need to get bit on purpose. I use the gloves and then I might take one glove off. The glove that's always farthest from the snake's head is a bare hand and they get used to the heat and that sort of thing. But it works pretty well. As long as you keep them reaching because they want to go somewhere, they could care less about biting you. You go to grab their neck or you get too close. You have to gradually work up to putting your hand close to their necks and close to their heads because that's the last place and the tails. I start with the mid-body and then I work on conditioning and to accept the tail, which sometimes ends up in swing around by chew in the chest or whatever, or whatever extremity they can get their chin on. I go there and then work towards the work for the neck and head and just be gentle and watch them. If they start to turn, refocus them back where they're supposed to be walking and just try to act like a warm tree, I guess. Right. I mean, you think that if when scrubs are more readily produced in the hobby, do you think that they'll mellow out say like with reticks and bloods and short tails and iJs for that matter? I mean, pretty much that seems to follow suit. Do you think that that day will come where they'll be... I don't think that they seem to just be more aware, similar to like reticks. I've heard that with King Cobra's. They're just a little smarter. I don't know. What's your thoughts on that? They're way smarter. That's for sure. I mean, I don't think there's any other snake that I've messed with. It's been quite so alert. Maybe, you know, maybe it's like pack of rat snakes and some of those other larger collubrids that are, you know, daytime hunters and stuff. They're very, very visually sight oriented as opposed to anything else. You know, they... I just really haven't seen much that matches their perceived intelligence. But yeah, I mean, they're nasty. The ones I bred were... I had a super, super docile male. I mean, I led my... God, she must have been seven-year-old, nine-year-old daughter hold that snake at 10-12 foot when she was grown up. I mean, he could do anything with him. He never offered a bite. He was totally chill. He was awesome, beautiful. He was in your calendar. That's the one that a couple years back that... Oh, yeah, yeah. Picture of him. He was such a awesome snake. But then the female was kind of nasty. And, you know, the clutch came out kind of in between. Yeah, there were some that were totally cool, and you can hold them, and they'd never mind. And there were some that were, you know, really crazy. But yeah, I mean, I think if you breed calm snakes, you get calm snakes if you don't freak them out. And they learn over time that, you know, you're not going to hurt them. I mean, they have to. I mean, if you're able to tame a snake at all, then they must be able to learn. Right. Makes sense. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think we're breeding, and the more we produce, and we've got tame animals producing tame animals, you know, a lot of the reticulated clutches are the same way. If you breed nasty animals, you get nasty babies. That would be an impressive animal if you could get us, you know, I don't know. I mean, for most part, the scrubs that I've worked with in my collection have all been pretty chill. I've been had that many that have been, you know, insane until I had some from Owen, and then they're just. There you go. Yeah. Here we raised a mean. We just wanted to make, you know, 14-feet of death, so. None of mine are trustworthy. Yeah. I like that one. I like that one I had. I mean, I could do anything with that snake, but these guys, I have ones that, you know, my my lock ins, they were cool when they were little, and now they're, uh, they got some teen angst, I guess, because they're, uh, they've taken some weird, you know, I wouldn't expect it. And they've taken some weird shots at me, haven't connected, but, uh, and, you know, they, they're getting to the size where they've got a good, you know, three foot strike range, so. They bend over and you, you get one whizzing by your head and you're like, oh, shit. What the hell was that? Yeah. Yeah, so they're taking some, they're taking some pot shots, so, you know, but I mean, they, if I take them out and I hold them, they're fine, but I don't trust them. Not like that other snake. You know, that's, that other snake never struck at me ever, ever. As soon as the strikes, uh, snake strikes at me once, he doesn't have my trust anymore. Yeah. Uh, you know, if you're, if you're cool and you've always been cool and I can touch your face and pet your head and you're not going to do anything, uh, I'm confident that you're probably, unless it's a feeding incident, which never happens because I have like three foot four-sips or whatever they are. That's right. Yeah. He must dance. Uh, you know, there's, there's no reason that, you know, I'm going to get bit from them. There's, I mean, we, I had one Morgan that I kind of trusted and everybody beyond that was, you know, no dice. Uh, they then, I don't even trust half the tandem bars. Everybody, but everybody kind of sits well on a hook after they, after a while. I mean, they all kind of were raised being, uh, hook handled and things of that. So I guess once you get them used to handling with the equipment, there's really no problem. It's got to, got to be wary. You know, it's got to be ready and everyone's, while you do miss, and they kind of either get, or get close. So. Yeah. You know, and people with, with experience, I haven't been bit, I was bit once or twice recently due to my own complete stupid. Yes. Um, but I, you know, before that, I had been bitten years. I mean, I, I didn't have snakes for quite a while because like I got rid of my collection. But, you know, you know, I just, I'm smart and I know what's going to happen. I read the snake and I know what's going on. But, uh, I got this stupid idea that, uh, scrubs hate to go back in their tubs. So if you're keeping them in racks, good luck. Because you try to put them to go in and all they do is go in and then shoot right back out with their heads. Well, I got in this stupid idea that I'm just going to pop them on the head gently and have them go back in. And I've taken two hits to the palm of my hand, uh, from two different ones. And I was like, I just corrected myself. I'm like, what are you doing, dude? Stop touching their faces. Why? Why would you do that? Yeah. Like, you're, you're stupid. But, um, yeah. I mean, there's, once you get them out, they're typically really good. You know, no crazy problems. But the bad ones that I know are going to bite the crap out of me. And I know that you better wear gloves and you better be ready. But, uh, you know, on the non-feeding days, you know, I feed every Sunday. So on Wednesdays, when I'm cleaning or whatever, hey, it's time to take them out. It's time to play with them, get them, get them used to what's going on. And, you know, I don't think they'll ever calm down if you don't interact with them. You know, I think some of them might kind of get used to my presence, but being handled, I don't think they'll get used to if you don't handle them. I mean, it's all about exposure. Okay. No, I would agree that if you leave them in the, you kind of just handle them minimally. Uh, that's, you're never going to calm down for you. They're just going to be themselves. And that's what you're going to deal with, so. Yeah. If you want to tame, tame snake, you need to, you need to do the perfect, you know, the perfect balance between not stressing it out and it's getting used to you, right? So you're holding it, but you're not restraining it. You're not forcing it to do what it doesn't want to do. You're not drawing its attention. You know, you're just letting it be out of the cage. Like I said, the warm tree theory, you know, it's out and it's getting used to climbing on you. And eventually, it's going to, it's going to realize that your warm touch isn't a threat. It isn't food because it doesn't smell right. Your movements, you know, move slow. Don't make sudden movements. Don't wave your hand in front of their face like somebody, you know, like a stupid ass. Uh, you know. And I think, I think eventually, you know, you're going to end up with a tame snake. It may take five years, but I think eventually it'll happen. Right. Yeah. And the more you interact with them, the more you learn, you learn about their habits, you know. Well, I know this one. If I touch it right there on the neck, it's going to spin its head super fast and nail me. Yeah. Yeah. You just, you learn how they, how they react and, you know, and then you can kind of anticipate what's going to happen. You know, you can take a big one out that's nasty and take it outside and play with it with the hook and know how far it's going to strike and, you know, try to, try to work on turning that, that fight into flight and getting it to just move away from you instead of always being so defensive. Right. But you don't want to stress it out at the same point, right? So that's where that balance is between, I'm going to hold it, but I'm not going to, I'm going to not, I'm not going to purposely keep touching its neck over and over and over and over and over because that's just going to reinforce that it's mad and, and if you're messing with it, you know, it's got to be, it's got to kind of become, come deliberate handling. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like, don't worry about it too much. Scrubs are a, a test in patience, you know. It's all around. Cool. So keeping them alive, keeping them feeding, getting them to breathe, keeping them nice, making them nice. Yeah. Yeah. Wait. Lots of patience. But it would be fun if it was easy, right? Yeah. Of course. Well, do you, do you, what would be, if you're getting a wild-caught scrub, and you have, you know, if there's one that presents itself and you have to, you have to grab it, what would be the number one thing you would say as far as acclimating that successfully? Someone that, you know, may be interested in getting into the scrubs. Well, I've acclimated quite a few, so I'll, I think I'm pretty experienced on that. When I get my animals, the first thing I do is, you know, I treat them for external parasites, even if they don't have them, you know, prevent a mite to cage or, you know, whatever your, whatever your preferred method of, of getting rid of mites and, and that kind of stuff is, obviously don't spray it on the animal itself, but just treat the cage. I set them up, you know, definitely for something that's new on, you know, craft paper, newspaper, paper towel, something that's going to show any, any mites that are dying or whatever. So you can kind of gauge the, the outside health of the animal. I set them up minimalistic. They've got a hide and they've got paper towel or, you know, something, some kind of easy, easy substrate, nothing, you know, aspen or any other stuff to start with. And I leave them alone. I don't tuck the snake at all until it's fed for me. No, no handling, no, no messing with it at all. If it's, you know, it's not eating. It's typically not soiling as cage. So you don't really even have much cage maintenance. It needs to be done. If you do hook it out, put it in a bin, clean it up, put it right back in and shut the cage and leave it alone. I know it's like, wow, I got this awesome snake and I want to hold it. Well, don't. So I set them up and then, you know, once a week, at night, I offer, I offer what I want to feed first. So that's a frozen thawed rat. I'll offer it to it just presented. I don't hit the snake with it. I don't do anything like that. I'll just offer it and see if it strikes it. I will move it a little or pull it away. Sometimes in a way movement gets them to get some to strike and pull it. You got to be careful with the nervous ones that you don't do anything after they take it. If they do hit it that way, because a lot of them will just disengage really quick and then not eat the rat. So some of them, you have to let them hit it and then just stand their frozen until they swallow it. Because, you know, even shutting the cage or sliding the tray in or whatever is going to make them not eat it. So that's the first way I try to offer stuff. If that doesn't take, I do the, you know, I do the rat. Same thing, frozen thawed on a tray. Just open the cage, set it in there, close the cage and see what happens in the morning. If that doesn't work, I'll try other rodents like mice or ASFs or something of that nature. Chicks, quail, whatever you want to do. And he kind of got to cycle through. I didn't have any luck with quail or chicks getting my Homo Harris started or anything. It was mice that did it. I wouldn't, I would really shy away from using a live rodent of any kind, obviously, for injury reasons, but also because it can just treat them out even more. And I actually think that they associate the smell with the fear. Because I've freaked out scrubs that have been eating perfectly fine on rats. And I went up a size on the rat and he, and it didn't take it and it kind of freaked out with it. And then it wouldn't eat rats at all. And then I got it started. But as soon as I offered a mouse, it took it right away. And then as soon as, and if I scented a rat with a mouse, it would eat that. So, and it'd be eating rats for a year, you know, for months or whatever. So, you know, you just got to be careful with what you're, with what you're feeding and not freak out the snake. So I'd stick with frozen thawed or pre-killed, you know, some of them are weird and don't like them wet. So the, you know, pre-killing something and just leaving it in there would be the next option. As soon as you get it to eat and you can get a fecal sample, you know, do a float test or do your send it to your vet or whatever. I don't have a good snake vet down here. So I tend to do all my floats and stuff myself. You know, and see what's going on internally in the snake, you know, maybe, you know, give it. Give it whatever kind of worm or whatever it needs to clean it out. To do that, I just, I know, you know, it's eating, so I don't, I don't put it in the snake's mouth or anything. I just inject it into the prey item and let it do its thing that way. So then I know, you know, that it's clean inside and out. So I know it doesn't have any potential health issues. I've got it set up sterile. It's got a hide box. It's got, you know, water. The temperatures are right. Don't mess with it. And then, you know, once it's somewhat established with eating, then I start with, you know, some gentle handling or that sort of thing. I mean, over the course of you cleaning its cage and stuff, it's going to be hooked out. It's going to be handled that you can start doing some more detailed, you know, handling sessions. Another thing that works with handling is cooling them off with water. For some reason, if I got a really pissy snake, I'll hook that snake out and I'll take it and I'll put it in the bathtub. And some just not cold water, but just just blue warm water. And the snake, they typically don't like it. And what happens is they get into that total flight mode. And then they've lost the, they kind of lose that weird craziness and they're okay with being handled. It cools their body down so I don't think they're as amped up and warm and ready to kill you. I don't know, but it's worked for me. I've had lots that I've been able to just get wet and then I handle them. That's not a weird kind of thing that I use. That's it. I mean, you want to make sure that the snake is clean and it's comfortable and it's eating before you mess with it really. And if it doesn't eat, you don't touch it. Like I want to hold my tomatoes so bad, it's not even funny. But they haven't eaten for me yet, so I can't touch them. Yeah, I haven't even probed them to prove that I've proved myself they're a male and female. They just got to sit there until everything's cool and, you know, and even proved to prove to myself that they're clean parasite-wise, right? And because parasite-wise will stress the snake, it'll compromise its immune system. Stress will compromise its immune system even more. So, you know, sometimes you, you know, if you really want to be strict about it, you know, you could follow really, really tight stuff. You're going to make sure that the animal's clean and feeding and then and only then mess with it. Okay. Yeah, it can be, it can be quite tricky to get established. So that's some good tips for sure. It's time. It's just patience is all it is. You know, I've had some of my baby hatchlings corrupts. One of them went six months before it, and it survived. Wow, so my big ones. My helmet hair is six months. I mean, after sick is like, "Oh God, this thing's going to die. Oh God, this thing's going to die. Should I sell it and recoup my money? No, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to give somebody else my problem, you know. Do I want it to die? No. Am I going to keep trying until it does? Yes. Eventually you're going to get a breakthrough. Eventually something's going to happen. All right. Well, I mean, hopefully there's probably some odd chances that the animal just isn't going to eat. But if it isn't, there's something wrong, right? The temperature is not right. It's stressed out. It's the humidity is wrong. You're feeding the wrong prey item. It wants it dry and dry and dead instead of wet and dead or smacked them in the face with it or whatever. They're all going to be different. You just have to figure it out. And then go from there and stick with what works. You know, if they take one thing, then stick with that thing. If you know that they'll eat mice, but you want to get them on rats, then, you know, give them -- they'll take one mouse. Great. You give them one jumbo mouse, give one jumbo mouse, give one jumbo mouse, and then give him two jumbo mice. Okay, great. Now he's eating two jumbo mice. Well, guess what. I want them on rats because you don't want to be feeding a scrub mice the rest of its life. It'll never grow. Well, I'm going to take a weaned rat and I'm going to scent it with my mice. I'm going to give it a mouse first and then I'm going to give it a rat scented like mice. And nine times out of ten, it's as simple as switching as that. You know, I know some of the carpets, you know, jungles or whatever. I've never had a problem switching things to rats. I've never had a mouse feeder. I don't know. And I might just be lucky, but, you know, it is what it is. Yeah. If it's not eating, there's something wrong with it either internally or your husbandry or your stress in it out. One or the other. Right. I would agree to that because I've never met a scrub that didn't want to eat. So, well, get yourself out of my hair. And that was a happy one. Yeah. Once they're rolling, I mean, they'll eat anything. So, yeah. There's some, there's some exceptions to that rule. I have them. My own heroes are rolling, but if I try and feed it wrong, it won't eat. Yeah. It took me years to get that girl that I have, you know, established to where she eats with a gusto. But, yeah. The good thing about the Barnax that we had is, um, my one buddy gave me like a bag of like, quail. And we're talking like, they were, they were adult quail. And I'm like, "Hey, how long are you going to do with these?" "You gave them to me." And I'm like, "No, I should show up." And they just stayed for my crazy. And then, oh, yeah. The bag of quail was gone. Right back on her ass. So, I do love that. And the best feeders tend to be the Barnax and the Southerns and the Milakans. My poor feeders are definitely my homoheras. And, uh, this little arugirl is giving me some, giving me some pain. But I've never, none of my other scrubs that I've ever had. You know, the Waminas and the Tannibars and that kind of stuff. I've never had problems with them directly just taking stuff off tongs. But my homoheras, they don't want to eat off tongs. They're so shy and submissive almost. They don't even want to strike at me. They hide and they want to run the other way. The male will light you up. But he'll actually take one off tongs as well. So, it's kind of there. You read their personality. If it's a shy snake and you present a rat, and it doesn't want to take it, and guess what, present the rat again the next week and watch your feedings. You know, if it doesn't eat, don't do it three days later, seven days. And believe me, after six months of waiting, seven days each time, it drove me nuts. But it will work. I mean, it will. At some point in time, it's going to work and they're going to take something. So, just become and be patient and, you know, and read the snake and understand what's going on and try something different. Right. That's good advice. We are about to run out of time. That went quick. See? And I thought I had nothing to talk about. Yeah. I just ran. I just talk and talk and talk. That's good. That's the best kind of guest. You know, because they can talk about what they got going on. Cool. So, do you have any info you want to put out there? Do you have a Facebook page, a website, anything as far as that goes, where people can see what you got going on? I just have Facebook right now. I've dabbled in websites, but, you know, I don't want to do a natural history locality type info website because I don't know. And I don't want to rehash what's already out there. And I'm not currently breeding, so I don't really want to do a breeding thing. So, I have Facebook, you know, I post a bunch of my pictures up on either my personal account or the scrub python group on Facebook. And also that other group that I have, that my scrub group, the U.S. similea keepers and importers is the name of it. Okay. But it's a closed group as of right now. You know, there's not much on there to see other than, you know, a couple pictures and things. Until I figure out what I'm going to do with it. Is there a carpet fence south? Because most people in Texas, South West, are missing out. Yeah, car professors, Texas South. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of, you know, a lot of breeders and Dallas and that kind of stuff. Some of these puts on together because I'd sure like to come and see some of the stuff that's going on and talk to some of the guys. They'll see the north east carpet fest. So we're taking a breeder from Texas. Oh, so they're coming up there. Yeah, maybe one of these years. I'll make the trip. Sure, yeah. Awesome. There's going to be a south east carpet fest in Florida in November. That was one in California. Yeah. Yeah. There's nothing I think we need to go through. Third coast carpet fest or something. Nice. I don't know how many carpets. I mean, all the carpets are. I have so that they're all sold and waiting to be picked up. I have a whopping one egg in my incubator. No, from my ridiculously botched caramel tiger clutch. Oh, wow. It's good. I'm going to have one hatchling. Hopefully it's, I'll probably miss the odd and get a totally normal coastal and be like great. Totally normal coastal male and I'll be like, hmm, okay. Hooray. Yeah. Well, that's a good time. I mean, if you start a golf coast carpet, I'll send you a carpet to have for the carpet fest and you send it back. Wow. Just have everybody bring their carpets to show off. There you go. There you go. That's a good time. All right, you got it. All right. I think that's all I had to talk about. I appreciate you having me on. Yeah, absolutely. It's always fun. Yeah. So when you have some more updates, let us know. You're always welcome back. We'd love to hear, you know, what's going on in the scrub world. So, yeah, you know, feel free to let us know. All right, cool. We'll do. All right. All right. Thanks a lot. Very good. Well, I hope that gave some of the listeners their scrub fix. And, you know, a lot of info there. Yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of cool stuff to dissect. There's a lot of cool stuff about scrub. And I know you and I have like kind of drifted away from scrub is, you know, parts that we kind of, we had them and then we're kind of drifting away from them. But we still kind of have our bows in them. But they're, they're a cool species. And if you've got the drive and the want and you really dig them, then there's a lot of things you can move through. It's just, I wish it was easy to track down the localities. But I guess that that might be a deal for some people. Yeah, that, you know, it's some, what do they say? Sometimes it's the hunt, not the, uh, not the end game. We've experienced that here. I mean, I, like, you know, how many days was I screaming about? You know, screaming about rough scale pythons. And then I finally got the boys. I mean, you know, and I'm still screaming about rough scale pythons. But it's like sometimes the hunt is just so much cooler. And then you get them and you love them. But it's like, you know, these things you pined over for like months. Like you with Inbracata. I imagine once you get them, you're just going to be like, they're so amazing. And then what? What's next? Yeah. Yeah, well, you know, yeah, I mean, man, I'll tell you what, if, you know, often I say, well, I think, but if you really want to do something, then you just kind of have to make it happen. You know, and then in the back of my mind, I still have that dream of like one day having this, you know, like this facility where I keep a speech, you know, a pair. Speeches of boas and pythons and like, I mean, how cool would that be to go and see? I mean, come on, man. You're not going to tell me that you wouldn't love to go and check that out so much so that, you know, when we were at Matt's the other day, taking pics. On the way up, me and Zach were talking about. I said, you know, I think Owen wanted some zebra head albino stuff. I wonder if I could trade him a zebra head albino or zebra jag head albino for like a pair of those Dominican boas. And Zach turns his head and he's like, what are you going to do with Dominican red mountain? Jack, I don't have to God talk to you out of doing a trade with me. I'm going to kill him and I was like, I don't know. I'm trying to get rid of these damn boas. Yeah, he almost, he almost, he almost had me, man. I was like, you know, no, I still, I still might do that. You know, we'll talk, we'll talk. All right. All right. All right. Zach's not allowed to come in the snake room. You and I are going to come and we're going to check out the boas. Okay. We're going to talk. Yeah. But it was like, you know, I just think about like that. You know, I mean, if you, if I have like 150 snakes in my collection now, I mean, to have a pair of, you know, it's not bad that team more Python to kind of been calling my name. Oh, yeah, they're pretty man. Aren't they really nice? And then, and there's some dude in Pennsylvania. That's like, on a song? No, no, no, no, not, not Timors, but there's some dude in Pennsylvania who's honestly got like the next town over for me that has making boas. Really? Yes. Wow. They're cool. And they look gorgeous. But if I get them, Matt Minutola will be on my ass about, you know, breeding boas, being a boa breeder. I want it so mean. But I look at them and I'm like, and the Jamaicans, look at the Dominicans, but they got these different colors and they're speckled and tannish. And I'm like, oh, cool. Yeah. And then I'm like, do I really want to have another animal here that produces litters of babies. They usually start on gecko. Do I really want to do that to myself? Do I really want to just totally beat myself over the head? It's even really not just about the breeding. It's not even about breeding really as much as it is about the keeping part of it for me with that. So the process for, well, we've begun the process for us to get a house. So once I have, it was funny. It's so crazy. I go and my sister, she's a realtor, right? So me and my wife were sitting there and I said, she's like, okay, Eric. You know, where do you want to go? And blah, blah, blah. I was like, oh, I'd like to move outside the city. She's like, okay, she's telling me areas and whatnot. She says, okay, so what's important for you? She asked my wife what's important for you. And my wife's like, well, I'd like to have, you know, it has to have a yard for the dogs. And I like a lot of, you know, like a lot of room for them to run around. And I like like three bedrooms, you know, blah, blah, blah. And she's going on with it, like the typical stuff that people, I said, all I want is a basement. All of the big-ass basement. I said, I need a basement, a huge basement. It has to be huge. And she's like, oh, God, the snakes, right? And I'm like, yes. Yeah. A well-insulated, huge basement with like this. Yes. Yes. Oh my God, I can already see it in my head and I haven't even looked at a house in it, you know what I mean? Yeah, I can just picture it, like. Dude, that's the thing. You can't picture it because what you need, and this is what I did. You try to picture it and then you kind of get disappointed with the first couple houses you see. So what you need to do is you go into every house with the eye where the snake's going. And you'll find it in every single house. You'll be like, this could be it. They could go here. And then you finally realize, well, I'd have to do this, this and this. I think this is not going to work. And then you move on. So before I end up getting the house that I got here, I put in an offer at another house where the owners had converted half of it into a woodworking shop. So he had insulated it. It had a sink inside the thing. And basically he turned it two car garage into a one car garage. And I'm like, done, done. The snakes will go here. And it's like, I like the rest of the house. Yeah, sure, sure. So it's like you go here. So, you know, and that, that one didn't work out. And I was kind of bummed out until I found the house that I ended up buying. Because, you know, I walk right downstairs and I'm like, this thing will go here. And it's like perfect. So, yeah. Yeah, it was like, so we looked at, like, we looked at a couple online. And my sister has, has seen some of them. So she's telling, you know, she's like equating the size of what the, what, what the space was. And like, you remember buddy's basement? Well, the one was like two times the size of that. It was huge. And I'm like, oh my God. That was perfect. But here's room for activity. Here's, here's the. Yeah, that's great. But here's the problem. The thing that really like holds me back is the space issue. When that's no longer an issue. Yeah. That could be trouble. That could be trouble. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? You can expand your snake room and you can like get it huge. And then all of a sudden you're like, holy crap, I've run out of space again. How did I do that? I didn't get that many new ones and nothing really worked out that bad. But yeah, all of a sudden I'm out of space again. Crap. So I think, I think if I had the room, probably what I would do is I would have my breeders and I would keep my breeders the same way that I do. But I would at least have one animal per species that I keep in a nice display cage. You know, and oh man. I'm going to try to get the doors cut for my, I have to be a glass cut for my diamond cage that's in the living room. I'm going to start getting that wired and planted before carpet. That's because I want to make sure that it's all working out nice and you kind of get to see where I'm going at with it. But that's going to be so cool. When they're big enough to move in there, I'm going to be so excited. Oh, yeah, no staging. No one said teamwork. Get that crap off the radio page, right? No, no, somebody posted up pictures of their team or summer on the relay python radio page, you know. No one said team wars. They want to see, yeah, that's it. They're beautiful too, man. I think that like, I don't know. There's so many pythons that I don't want it. You know, it's like the fact that I've heard from Jason Bailey, like he whips his tail and then just like. Musk and crap flying at your head kind of turns me off with a team wars a little bit. I don't know. I never really hold my snakes all that much. So to me that don't. I really thought that and then we'll see, you know, I'll wait until you do it. So, yeah, but I wouldn't. Yeah, I mean, there's other way I figured is if I get like some, so if I work on my collection to some captive born and bred stuff that already exists and get that by the time that I would go to buy some of the rare stuff. Hopefully someone will have breaded by then and I'll be good to go. Yeah, hopefully. The goal is for me and you to have the complete. Collection. That's the goal. That's what I like about because we were discussing earlier before the show. I know you kind of want them all like I do. And he's like, and then you were like, well, I don't know how you feel about it. If I got them, I'm like, that'd be awesome because then I would know where to get them. I want you to go get them. I don't want to spend the money right now. If you get them, you do it. Watch yours. And then later when I have the money, I can get them from you. So, I mean, it was the. It's perfect that way. So, it's a fine that way. So, that's a good plan. So, you want caramel head albino, you want caramel head albino or anything head exam. If you wanted to trade for both, just saying. Oh, caramel head albino. Oh, man, I got plenty of that. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. All right. Look at that. I don't know. So, you know. Oh, man, we're going to have to dazzle you. Everybody, please. This is what I need all the people out there. You play it on radio world to do. They like you more than me. So, you know, the PM Owen. Pictures of sun glows. Sun glow boas. No, that's not, no, those are boys. There's now sun glow. Borneos or bloods, I think they are. I'm not going to barrage me with. Sun glow corn snakes. I want them to see the potential. What do they call it? Sun kiss or something like that? I don't know. I don't, you know. Oh, you know. You might know. Was that like the year where like every new morph of corn snakes, even if it was an iteration of something that already happened in different species, got a new name. Like, you know, they called it a sunburst, but it was actually a sun glow. Yeah. Sunburst. Whatever. And then there was a sun. I can't even keep up with that. I wouldn't even know. The way to do it would be like, you know, you need sun glows to make this, this and this and they look pretty like a, you don't need sun glows to make moon glows. Do you? Yeah. I think so. Pretty sure. Isn't it just a thing that? Oh wait. Is it a sun glow examic? Or? Yes. Okay. Damn it. Yeah. You like moon glow boas? Shit. Yeah. All right. I may have painted myself into a corner here. So. Yeah. You know, I've hatched, I hatched out one last year. Yeah. Sun glow. They, they definitely have a look to them. Different than the other albinos. I think if you have a super is where it's really going to. Super caramel albino. Yeah. That's where it's going to really pop. I think. It's hard to explain what they look like. Yeah. And then you think about that if you have like, what do you have a JAG already? The JAG what? Head albino. Okay. I have a female JAG head albino. Yeah. Okay. And I have a, I have a Darwin head albino and I have an albino boy. Yeah. See? So you could breed it to any of those and the caramel is. Well, if you had us, if you produce the super caramel albino, I don't know what that would be. Is that extra sun glow, extra sunny sun glow or. Extra, extra, extra sun within the glow. I don't know. Always sunny sun glow. I guess it would, I guess it would just be a better, I guess it would just be a higher price sun glow. I mean, so I would do it. I wouldn't go crazy. Sun glow is a sun glow. You just have better ones. But next thing with it. What's going to be killer. Yeah. What's going to be killer is a sun glow tiger. That's going to be killer. I'm paying attention now. I told you, I told you, I told you the first person produce, I told you the first person to produce ghost tigers is getting my money. I don't know if it's probably ever been produced over in Europe. I'm talking out of the guys who got here. Of course, I say that and then I keep looking at the rough scale pythons that are for sale out there, willing more money into my bank account, but it's not shown up. Yeah. I'm surprised you didn't jump on them. All right. You know what? I can't. I basically cannot. If there was any way to do it, and I'm picking myself because if I had remembered that Dave had those, I probably wouldn't have thought of the diamond, but, you know, that neither here nor there. Right. Damn. They always pop up right at the worst freaking moment. They'll be mine eventually. Give me time. Yeah. Patience. Patience. Patience. Hopefully I don't have a breeding pair before you have a female. A pair? Yeah. Thanks. That'll hurt me. He's like, "I don't care if you get tons of pythons or..." Yeah. You can get whatever that you can have a... Oh, I know. None of that will matter. Yeah. I can think. Come on. Did you have a pair of rough scales? I quit. Yeah. I quit the show. I'm out and done. I won't be back until I get my own. Yeah. Alright. Well... Okay. It'd be worse if I ended up buying from you to get my pair. Yeah. That would suck. I'll have to make your money. I'd have to just give it to him. Yeah. Okay. Look how sad he is as he opens up his wallet. Look over there in the corner. He's opening up his wallet. Come on. I can't do that. Your money's no good here. Yeah. Yeah. I'd have to hit you. But I mean, that has to hit you over there. And I'd say... I'd tell Matt, I'd be like, "Yeah, Matt. He's a boa breeder anyway." So it's not like he's going to breed him or anything. Oh. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I see how it is. Alright. Oh. Did you make it so pretty though? But, yeah. Anyway. Did you tell that inside joke? The boa breeder thing? Yeah. Yeah. That was something. Because he called me while we were on the air once. So I said that on the air. So, yeah. Every time I piss off Matt Minitole, he goes, "Oh, when you're just a boa breeder." And I'm like, "Oh." And then it kind of hurts me. Because I realize I have potentially two litters of boa. And only two litters of carp. Only two clutch of the carpet pipes on this year. You just shut me up pretty nicely. Yeah. We all going all for it. And then it was like, "Oh, okay." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very good. Well, let's wrap it up. Now that we've, you know, to make them fellas, you like it. Pick them up. Pick them up. Okay. Let's see. I'm going to do, how about, I'll do Maraleo Python radio. And I'll do E.B. Maralea. And then you can do carpet fest and broke reptiles. There you go. Cool. For me. I wanted to do E.B. Maralea. No. Absolutely not. I will not trust you with that. I have it smart. Maralea Python radio. You can check out our website Maralea Python radio.com. If you want to get in touch with us, the email is info@maralea Python radio.com. If you have questions, comments, I guess you'd like to hear topics you'd like to touch on. Please feel free to let us know what you think. As far as the show, you can download it on iTunes for free. You can pretty much get it on any podcast app that you got. Just type in Maralea Python radio and it should come up. Let's see. I think, yeah. I think we have the website's almost finished. I did some maneuvering around of some things. Go over and check it out. If you have any, if you're curious about carpet pythons or if you're curious about anything Maralea related, if you go there, you're pretty much going to be guaranteed defined. It's just going to point you in the direction of what you're looking for. Get out. As far as next week's guest, I don't have -- this is the week before carpet fest, right? I don't know if we're going to have a guest. I'm still up in the air. We might have somebody stop by for a little while and talk. Then the show after, I'm sure we'll have some people that were at carpet fest call up. Maybe we'll have a Philly round table post carpet fest show. My dad calling and getting an outside perspective of carpet. I'm completely wasted episode. You can also, like our Facebook page, Maralea Python radio, and you can follow us on Twitter at Maralea Python. As far as myself, eB Maralea, happy to say we hit 1200 likes. It's actually, I think, 1200 and two. So thank you for that. That's probably -- you know, I post a lot of updates to the Facebook page. If you have any questions or comments, you can send an email to me at info -- I'm sorry, I'm info -- eric@ebmaralea.com. And the website is eBmaralea.com. I just had my first clutch on the ground. So stay tuned for availabilities. Got quite a few carpets this year. Carpet clutches. So should have some cool stuff. Probably the coolest stuff and probably the stuff that is the -- that people will probably be most interested in is the citrus tiger stuff. So if you were interested in that, stay tuned. And hopefully we'll get some nice tigers out of that. So I think that's -- yeah, that's it for me. Cool. So for carpets, carpets is the coming Saturday, the next, which will be the 30th of May. And it is at my house in Bushville, Pennsylvania. If you need any other information, please go to the Northeast Carpet Festival page. Or you can go to carpets.homestead.com. Or you can private message myself or eric. And we'll get you all your questions answered. If you need an exact address, it is 136 Hopewell Street. And that's 136 Hopewell Street, Birdsboro, Pennsylvania. The event starts at 3 o'clock. Do not show up at my house at 10 o'clock. I will put your ass to work. So that is kind of a thing. If you show up early, I will make you scrub something. So don't do it. At 3 o'clock is when we start, everybody is required to bring a dish. We couldn't have a lot of the main stuff covered. We have burgers coming. We have hot dogs. We're going to have actual lobsters and shrimp coming. We've got beer covered. We've got utensils and plates covered. We've got some desserts covered. If you want to bring pretty much anything at this point, you're going to bring side dish. You want to bring chips. You want to bring sodas or anything. Bring what you want. Bring your favorite kind of food. Bring your favorite kind of drink. We have a lot of stuff. It's going to be good time. If you need hotel ideas in the area, there's an econolage in the next town over. And then there's for the more high-end. There's a holiday in a couple more. A couple of other town over the other way. Full of been pretty good driving distance not too far. I can give you those addresses if you need those. If not just Google hotel accommodations near 1-9-508. That's my zip code. So that's what we got. And also if you're willing to come with us, if you want to Sunday, after car profess, we're going to be heading up to Clyde Peeling's Reptiland, which is an all-rept house here in Valentine's, Pennsylvania. And that's going to be cool. I think we're filled up with the people who are going to come behind the scenes with us. But you can still come with us and still hang out. It's really cool. Like I said, all reptiles do. And Clyde does it upright. He built that thing up from being like a roadside kind of, you know, tourist trap to an ACA accredited all-rept housing. And he's got comotos and stuff like that there. And they're set up for theirs. Awesome. I was there probably about two years ago. And then, so I can only imagine what they've done now. Car profess can give you time. Also starting next week, we have the Car profess auction, all proceeds going to U.S. art. We've got some cool stuff coming up on the auction. We just got a few more things today. I think we have a Max Snow leopard get-go. And we have Scott Gator voucher for his granite I.J. clutch. And then I have a voucher. You have a voucher. We have the green tree python for buddy. We have Borneo. We have a blood from Matt. We have a blood from, we have blood from Juan. Borneos. Borneos. Borneos. Borneos. I wanted to say Borneos, but I stopped and I went the other way. Anyway, I had it right the first time anyway. So, yeah, I'm getting in trouble for that one. And I'm having something from Zach coming down the slide. Don't mind him. He's just about here. He's just about here. I make these mistakes. So if you wanted to contribute to the auction, anything to be contributed can be an animal. It can be a piece of equipment, like a thermostat. It can be something weird, like your company t-shirt, which I think I'm going to throw one of my new ones in there. So it can be anything you want. Throw it up there. If it goes for a buck, it doesn't frickin' matter. It's a buck that goes to USR. We already have raised $200 from the sales of carpet test t-shirts, so everything will be added to the access of the $200. So, rocking and rolling. If you have any questions, like I said, contact myself or Eric. As far as rogue reptiles, we have two clutches on the ground that are coming up. First one that will probably be catching in the next couple of weeks will be our red tiger to red tiger jag pairing. And then after that, we have our high contact tiger female to our caramel jag male. All of the clutches at this point are up in the air because I have no idea what's happening over here. Same thing with whitters of boas. The next show I will be vending is kind of up in the air as well because we missed the June Hamburg show. We had some trouble getting Becky in time for the August show. So we won't probably will not be vending at August, but we will be attending. The next show we will be vending will probably be the one after that, which will be October. So, there you go. Other than that, that's all I got. So what we'll say is good night, everybody. Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you all at the same time next week for some more Moralia Python radio. Good night. Hey, Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL, or as a reptile breeder in the owner of Proxox. I've been herping since I was a boy, and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breeding and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Markland and I create the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site, bringing you the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of the latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news, photos and links, so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. The reptile report offers powerful, brandy, and marketing exposure for your business, and the best part is, it's free. If you're a buyer or breeder, you've got to check out the reptile report marketplace. The marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling destination, full of features to help put you in touch with a perfect deal. Find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system, search by sex, weight, morph, or other keywords, and use our buy-it-now option to buy that animal right now. Go to marketplace.thereptilereport.com and register your account for free. Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptiles account to earn free tokens with each shipping label you book. Use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum mat. It also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page. Buyer and her selling? Use shipereptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. Shipereptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use shipereptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. The materials needed to ship the reptile successfully live customer support in our live on time arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptilereport.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace. Find that perfect pet or breeder. Then visit shipereptiles.com to ship that animal anywhere in the United States. We are your one stop shop for everything reptile related. [MUSIC PLAYING]
In this episode, Jim Kuroski is back and ready to talk scrub pythons.
We will here how Jim's collection is coming along and we will get some tips on how to acclimate WC scrubs to captivity.