Morelia Python Radio

Terrell Zeigler from Designer Exotics for a new perspective on the reptile hobby

In this episode we are joined by Terrell Zeigler from Designer Exotics joins us in this episode. Terrell is somewhat new to the morelia scene but he has a nice collection of both carpet pythons and short tailed pythons and he has a great attitude and approach to the reptile hobby. Terrell has also taken a page from our book and he is running the first Southwest Carpet fest on Jun 19 at 8:00pm- 1:00am. It's being held at: Prehistoric Pets 18822 Brookhurst St, Fountain Valley, California. Contact them at http://www.designerexotics.net/contact-us.html for more details. We will be discussing blood pythons as well as Terrell's thoughts on being a newbie in the carpet python hobby. http://www.designerexotics.net/

Duration:: 2h 56m
Broadcast on:: 13 May 2015
Audio Format:: other

Hey Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL or as a reptile breeder in the owner of Proxox. I've been hurtin since I was a boy, and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breathing and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Markland and I create the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of the latest reptile news and information. I encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news, photos and links, so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. The reptile report offers powerful brandy and marketing exposure for your business, and the best part is it's free. If you're a buyer or breeder, you've got to check out the reptile report marketplace. The marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling destination, full of features to help put you in touch with the perfect deal. Find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system, search by sex, weights, morph, or other keywords, and use our Buy Now option to buy that animal right now. Go to marketplace.the reptilereport.com and register your account for free. Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptiles account to earn free tokens with each shipping label you book. Use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum mat. It also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page. Buy and are selling, use shipereptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. Shipereptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use shipereptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. The materials needed to ship the reptile successfully, live customer support in our live, on time, arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptilereport.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace, find that perfect pet or breeder, then visit shipreptiles.com to ship an animal anywhere in the United States. We are your one-stop shop for everything reptile related. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Welcome to Moralia Python Radio, with your host, Eric Berg, and Owen McIntise. Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of Moralia Python Radio. We are just on this evening. It was just announced that the preliminary injunction was granted to us. I guess a big thanks has to go out to U.S. Arc and fill with us and all the hard work that those guys over there have done. Basically, I was talking to Rob Stone before the show real quick and he got his hands on it. He was telling me that there was an episode of reptile radio a while back. In that episode, CK was talking to one of the lawyers, I can't remember his name, but one of the lawyers for U.S. Arc. Basically, they were saying that in the actual Lacy Act, it doesn't say anything about them being able to ban cross and state lines more or less. Correct, but it does say in there that they could ban it for places like Hawaii, Puerto Rico, etc. I guess Guam, that was another spot. So, basically, the judge felt that there is a strong likelihood that we would win based on that fact. That was always a fact that U.S. Arc was trying to push. He also mentioned that it was re-ticks and green at Acondas, they didn't push for the other two since they're not in the hobby and they're not in the United States. What's the point? I guess my thought would be, and this was what me and Rob were talking about, I guess the Humane Society and PETA, I guess what their objective is going to be is to try to get the law changed. They would try to make it so that they would change the Lacy Act so that they could do ban importation state to state. So, that's kind of where we're at with that. So, it's a win. A win yet now we start fighting in a different direction. In fact, I hope that this stirs up some positive vibes in the reptile hobby and keep people pushing forward with donations and support in U.S. Arc. I know that there was some, for a while there, there was some people that kind of questioned whether or not it was worth it. I don't know. If this doesn't tell you that it's worth it, then I don't know what to tell you. We didn't know what to tell you at this time, I mean, come on now. So, that's that news. I think the only other real news that I have is the auction for Carpet Fest, the northeast Carpet Fest, which was a few weeks away. And basically, we're looking for donations for the auction. It can be anything about your animals, cages, reptiles, appliances, food, drinks, shirts, whatever. Maybe, maybe you're a guy like Owen, and you want to auction off yourself. Yeah, I mean, if I auctioned off myself, people would be bidding to keep me away. I mean, that's how that works. You know what I picture? You know when they auctioned off Kramer in Seinfeld? Yeah. Yeah. That's what I think. Yeah, I mean, come on now. I'm not unrealistic here. Owen is very good. He's very good at clean snake shit. I'm just saying. Why? It doesn't even happen. Shut up. Anyway, there's some really good shit in the auction already. I mean, buddy's putting up a condro, which is good. That doesn't get your blood boiling already. Wow. We're also putting up a t-shirt, your very own airbrush t-shirt, whatever you want on it. Matt Mitchell is putting up a cage. It's not just a run-of-the-mill cage. It is a tricked-out condro cage. So, you buy the condro from Buddy, or you bid on the condro from Buddy and you win. Then, of course, the next one is the cage and you've got to bid and win that one too. So, and I mean, this one's got a purchase, a removal of a purchase, and a whole shebang. Also, he's putting up a Borneo. You're putting up a $2,000 voucher. Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. It's too late. We've already moved on. I mean, you're putting up a voucher. I'm putting up a voucher. We're hoping for things. I know Zach's going to put something in. I know we were going to grab a carpet-fed t-shirt and quick to have everybody sign it. So, that and the auction's well. And I am waiting on a few other things. If you're out there and you've got anything, something small, something, whatever. It doesn't matter to us. We're not going to judge you on that. We're not going to say it's stupid. We'll take whatever and we'll throw it in and see how much it grabs. And of course, the week before a car professor is going to throw up the auction on the carpet-fed Facebook page where anybody can bid on it. And anybody attending car-fed-fed gets last say in the matter of how much they can try to beat the price. It's already been laid out online or it'll go whoever won it online. Right. So, there you go. Yeah. My father keeps asking, we want him to come on and do promos. But the ones who keep teaching are never good. If you have no life and nothing to do on the 30th, thanks. Thanks. Yeah. No thanks. I'm good. Oh. Yeah. Well, you know, that could be true. We also don't forget, we're going to be headed out to Reptiland on the following Sunday. I mean, on Sunday, the next day. Yeah, on Sunday. It's not the following. OK. We're all not hanging around our own house for a week. I thought I was taking vacation with you. Get the hell out of here. [Laughter] But, uh, at the land on Sunday, if you, I mean, are we full up on the behind the scenes thing or no? I think there's probably two more spots. OK. So if you want to come with us behind the scenes, let us know. You come back with us. It'll be fun. If you don't want to go behind the scenes, you just want to come with us. That's perfectly cool. We'll have a good time, we promise. Clyde's place is really awesome. And he has a bunch of different types of reptiles, including comotos, things like that. And he has, like, animatratic dinosaur garden. So, you know, that's just fun. So, uh-huh. There's that. And then you and I have, like, a fishing trip that Monday, too. So, like, you and I have, like, three days of awesomeness. So... Yeah. [Laughter] And then we got to talk to each other on Tuesday. Oh, my gosh. We got tons of them. Look at them! Yeah. This is too much. Like, four days worth. We're not gonna want to find those. Hear each other on Tuesday. Yeah. We might have to cancel that show or get fill in. [Laughter] Like, you know, we were gonna be on tonight, but I'm tired of hearing everyone speak. So, we're gonna listen to the power of silence. Yeah. So, tonight, um, we have Terrell Ziegler from their design, designer exotics. Yes. And, uh, Terrell is, uh, somewhat new to the carpet by the world. I think he's said he's been keeping carpets for about three years now. So, I mean, relatively new. I mean, he's not brand new. He keeps a wide variety of, uh, species. Uh, I think carpets and bloods are probably his, uh, his forte. Um, but, uh, you know, I think, uh, I think the reason that I wanted to, uh, to have him on that was because, um, he gives that new perspective. Right. There's been some, I don't know, uh, I, uh, well, what the heck? Say it, say it, say it. I've been really kind of, uh, I don't know if disappointed is the right word or, um, taken back. Uh, I don't know. I mean, I think taking the back is pretty good way to put it. Yeah. I've always, I've always held the Morelia community on a pedestal when it comes to, um, the reptile hobby. Um, because it always seemed to me that those people in particular that were in it before I got into it or even before you got into it. Um, um, I think that they just had a, they were the type of keepers that really wanted to try to figure out what was going on, um, with the species. Um, and they just had a really high level of appreciation for, um, you know, carpet pythons or chondros or scrubs or, you know, ballons. Back then, you know, there was no, uh, no, uh, split into semolina and all that. It was all, uh, Morelia. But it seemed that, you know, carpets were kind of like the beginner into the Morelia world. Um, some guys kind of graduated into chondros. If you were really, uh, you know, wanted to, uh, live life on the edge. You'd go into the scrub pythons. And then if you never cared about breeding, but you really wanted to try to crack the code. You went into Poland. Yeah. I mean. You went into Poland. You know, and rough scales. Well, they were just a dream. You know, that was. They were an, they were an obscure thing that would never happen. Ever. Which, dear Lord, um, you're going to think I'm a monster, what I've done to my boys. They got huge in these past like several months. I mean, I don't know what happened. They just didn't grow up. Anyway, I'm sorry. I digress. Um, well, it was very much, it felt more. And it's all like that. I got on. Well, it felt, it felt tighter. It felt like you were. It always felt to me like you wouldn't just be accepted into the Morelia community. But once you were in our list of how you. I mean, you could not like each other personally. But you would be viewed as a, as a member of that group. And even though you may disagree. And again, this is my perspective when I was a new person coming into it, even though they may disagree. You know, um, they still, you know, had a, had a passion for what they, what they kept. And you know what I always liked about that is that I don't think that people should agree. I mean, it's the same thing that you say all the time. Oh, and there's, there's more than one way to skin a cat. There's no formula for keeping an animal that's alive. Um, there's guidelines. There's best practices, but there's no specific. You can't, it's not making a cake. You know, you're not, it's not step one is this and step two is that. Um, you know, you can, you can go by the experience of keepers that, um, that, that have kept for, and bred for, for years and years and years. And you can really get a, I get, get some good, good perspective of things that they went through, but I don't think it's a matter of opening up a book and reading a book and, you know, that makes you a reptile keeper. The hands on experience is really, you know, where it comes from. You know, we, we've talked about this to no end on the show is, you know, keeping other species will give you a more in tune with the species you're working with. Talking to breeders that are in your area because, you know, they're going to experience the same temperatures and weather and, you know, pressure systems and all that. You know, so you, so what works over on the west coast may not necessarily work or give you the best results on the east coast, you know. So, so there's kind of that, but, um, I don't know, it seems that, that, that the Moralia community has kind of divided like, it seems, I don't know, is click a good way to say it. Yeah, I would say clicky's good word. Yes, it's clicky. You know, you can imagine that would happen in a species with a lot of different avenues and a lot of different ways you can go when it comes to Moralia. I mean, you can go jungle coastal IJ. You can go more if you can go pure, you can go this, you can go that. So you'd imagine there would be little kind of groups that everybody who was thinking one way would get along and everybody would get along and that's fine. Yeah, and then, and then you obviously can have flow between the groups and you have somebody like you who's pretty much a member of all groups. So, um, and you know, that's the way it goes. So, I don't see really a big problem with the clickiness. I see the problem with a lot of the attitude that's going about. I mean, you and I keep talking about how there's drama on Facebook every other day from some avenue or another. It's kind of like, you know, really again, we're going to do something about this, whatever. And, you know, obviously, you know, a lot of people ask if we're aware of such things. And, you know, what people need to understand is that if there's something going on in the pick of the week, we're aware whether or not we're weighing in on it is a completely different matter. Also, whether or not we allow it to continue is something that we discuss before we make a decision. So, a lot of times, we'll talk about a thread that we see that might be borderline. And if we say, all right, well, let them let it go for a little bit and then delete it further, other threads, they're deleted immediately. Once we see them, if we, if they're still up, it's because we haven't seen them yet. And a lot of times, I know you and I move pretty quick when it comes to that stuff. Yeah, yeah. Oh, and you're pretty, you're pretty quick to pull out the hammer and make sure that everything is going good over there. According to the exactest legendary, apparently, and I'm a little afraid I get this reputation now all of a sudden. But that's good. You know, I think we're a little bit on the liberal side when it comes to the pick of the week. I think the idea, I mean, if you really look back to the idea of Moralia Pickett the week, it was basically put up there. Well, if you remember, what we did was is that originally we had a website and on that website, we'd have people post up pictures. Well, I would go and pull off of MP.com pictures of things that I saw and then we would talk about. You know, you would say, oh, yeah, that was cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but then all of a sudden it was like, this is really the infancy of the reptile hobby on Facebook. It was like, okay, well, man, if we just have a territory, it would pop right to our phone. And, you know, so it was there. It's like, we were going to pick out like the best things that we saw and, you know, highlight that snake and those breeders or whatever and try to give some kudos. The problem is, is that there's like 200 snakes a day. Yeah, well, I think, I think not just pictures anymore. Yeah, I think what it transferred into is basically MoraliaPythons.com on Facebook. Facebook. Yeah. Totally killed. We killed. Well, yeah, I mean, I think even, you know, the Kondra guys, they kind of did the same thing. It's like they put to Moralia Virdis for them. MDF Facebook online. Yeah. Online. And so it's on the group. I mean, I don't know. It's kind of those things. I mean, that's another thing that we're going to talk about as we ran on here. We've got to get to realm pretty quick, but that's one of those things that, you know, do you evolve with with the technology or, you know, do you not evolve? I think that one of the things that a lot of the newbies are missing when they get into this is they're not going to, they're not seeing those threads of, you know, some of the, you know, the breeders that have been doing this for years. And it's almost, it's, it's like this vicious circle. So like the breeders that are successful in doing this really don't have time to spend a whole lot of time on Facebook. So Scott Gordon put up like a meme that said, like, I don't recognize the names or faces of people giving advice on Moralia pages anymore where it's like, yeah, I got to tell you, man, I went to this one page and again, I'm not trying out. We were trying to stay clear of drama and we're not throwing out names like a goddamn plate. Yeah, because to me it's not in drama filled threads and expect us to weigh in and be like, we're on radio support, whoever you are. No, no, no, we don't want it. Oh, we've had, we've had our share of behind the scenes. Not. But what I was saying is, is that I saw, I saw this thread on this new group, and I just was, I'm just, I sent you this snap pictures of like the pictures of what they were just. Oh, my God. Oh, man, it was like, are you kidding me? I had a guy somebody today. They must have went over to Moralia Python radio. They took down the pictures of like, you know, we have the Moralia complex page where it shows you all the different subspecies. Oh, they took the pictures down, and the IJ, they called it Darwin and the Darwin, they called it not clearly labeled right there. It's just, you know, and they don't ask to use the pics and they clearly put out the misinformation. They also, here's one that's going to drive you nuts, Owen. They put white lip pythons with hoses name as the scientific name. Isn't it like Leo Python hoser and sisters? The rock is, I mean, they put them with the ring, ring python now, or allegedly. It's somewhere between Leo Python and the ring, but the rockets or whatever the ring pipe, however you pronounce it. Yeah, but that's the black bases, the horrid road, whatever the hell. So what they just put Raymond, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not talking about, I'm talking about how hoser put out a paper and basically recategorize pythons. And he used hoser's classification, which, which is kind of like, you know, you just don't, it's like bad science and you're like justifying. Stop it, just stop it, just go to the next slot down on Google and learn more. I guess that's the problem. People aren't taking the time to research what needs to be researched and it, you know, clearly kind of creates a problem because you got these people that come over and all of a sudden they're experts. On the flip side of that, the new people that are coming in and they see some of the older people getting frustrated because, and they're answering in such ways, it's just like, wow, that's just completely dickish. Like you just were, I don't know, sometimes it's like, you have to, we were all newbies at once. At one time, we were all newbies. So it's okay. It's like, be patient. It's all right. Yeah. You know, I mean, when somebody clearly is being an idiot and they haven't done any research and they come across like they know it all. You're right. But if you're asking a question or something like that, I mean, again, I use examples of myself as to, you know, Jason Bale and Nick Mutton, you know, those guys in particular always took the time to walk me through problems. You know, that's why we always preach about Brian, you know, from breeders and not getting from a job or at a table because when you do, you do get that, you know, two years later when you're going to breed, you're able to drop that person a question, you know, oh, hey, you know, this happened. Remember the first time I was breeding and the egg was outside the coil and I wanted to do maternal incubation. And you call Jason Bale and Nick Mutton, yeah, all in the span of two hours. Yeah, you know, within like 30 minutes. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you rely on those horrible. Yes, you do. And, and we're not saying don't ask questions that that is the dumbest thing to ever say. So please ask questions, but it's like, it's like, I want you guys to not just sit there and expect to be spoon fed. Everything about keeping and breeding really go out and read for yourself. It's very helpful for you to learn this stuff on your own. And then ask the questions that arise. I assure you someone will be happy to answer those questions. You got to understand that a lot of breeders are from bar to the questions from people who just get this random ass carpet place on. The first question is always, always. What's in this? Yeah, I swear I got anybody post something that says. What is in this carpet like on the answer is always and shall always be unless it came from a breeder, you have no freaking idea. You make educated guests, but you don't know. So, and then there's all the other questions that of course come up on up on up. But it's like just learn, read, research, and then of course the breeders will be here to help you. And of course other people in Morelio will be here to help you. But it's like do on your own as well. Don't just sit there and expect to be, you know, baby bird open my mouth and get fed. So, you know, I spent a lot of time on Morelio Python radio.com. And the whole purpose of that website is so that a breeder or somebody that's new can kind of go somewhere and kind of get a cliff note version of carpet pythons and Morelio. You know, I've tried to put every possible avenue that you would need in order to, it's kind of like a hub. It can shoot you in all different directions. I mean, there's the breeders that have been on the show. There's the actual shows that are there. I mean, those are priceless. You know, you can go back and listen to any of the people that maybe you like this, you know, maybe you like that. Whatever it is that, you know, floats your boat in the carpet Python world. I think we've pretty much had anybody on the show that, you know what I mean? We've had from the keeper to the breeder to the newbie to the most experienced to the people that wrote the people that wrote the research favors. Yeah, I mean, so it kind of has like, it kind of points you in so many different directions that you could go and all the breeder's websites are there, all their Facebooks, their email, all that stuff. You know, you can MP, the forums, the pick of the week. You know, this all puts you in touch with things that, you know, that are valuable. Are really the, it's kind of like it's sorted through the bullshit and puts you to the top. So here it is. These are the people in the Morelia world that are really the people that you want to rub shoulders with. And maybe you don't agree with this guy, but you agree with that guy, but it's your choice to where you want to take it. You know, I had somebody contact me tonight that we were talking about, you know, granites and granite crosses. And, you know, what I said was, is that, you know, as we're going back and forth, you know, I said, Hey, man, you should just check out the more so the Morelia Complex page on Morelia Python radio.com. And, you know, it pretty much has every morph that's been produced in the Python world. They're all there for you to look at and who's they are. So you can check that out. But anyway, enough of that. You know, I don't know. That's kind of like, I think sometimes people expect from this podcast for us to be experts. I have never claimed to be an expert. I'm not even close to an expert. I just, nobody was doing this. So this is, this is what we decided to do. You know, I think of it more of like, we're more like the guys at a show that are talking to the breeders behind the table, you know, and each year, I don't, I don't want to speak for you Ellen. But each year I learned more and more from talking to the guests that are on the show, whether it be carpet Python people or other species that we delve into. You know, it just, I don't know, it just gets a little disheartening when I was talking to somebody else and I told you this already but, you know, they were at a show and they said, you know, carpet Python's are really cool and they wondered why the person didn't, they weren't into carpet Python's and they more or less said, well, the people are assholes, you know, and it's kind of like, that's upsetting. You know, I really, and if we're carrying on like drama, then we're pretty much, you know, the ball Python world is that what we'd be like, don't, don't say that, that's what I got, I'll go breed in YS this full time. Well, I'm just saying like it just seems that, you know, then the money came into it and I don't know man. The only thing that's got hurt, people are nitty gritty back and forth. It's, it, it just seems like there's a lot of hostility and it's like everybody can just, if everybody can just relax and focus on your snakes more and just kind of have fun with that and get back into what really brought in it in the first place. I think everybody would just be a whole lot happier. So, yeah, I think this is the longest introduction that we've ever done. But to bring this full circle to bring this full circle and back to it. One of the things that I must say is that I always strive to be around positive people and people that, you know, while you're hanging out with me then I have no clue why I'm here. You're the ying in the, you're the ying to my young. Anyway, yeah, you know, I think of, you know, just the different people that I try to associate with. I think that I try to be around people that are positive and people that are just really passionate about, you know, keeping the snakes that they try to put a positive spin and do anything they can to educate people about it. Terrell stands out as one of those guys that seems to be in that mindset so that's kind of kind of where we're at with that so that's, let's get him on here and let's get it going and get the show going. Hey, Terrell, welcome to Morel, you Python radio. This is your back. You were talking to us about Carpetfest a couple weeks ago. Glad to have you. Now we're going to go a little more in depth with you. Yes, not just Carpetfest. Sorry about the long ended intro. Yeah, Eric goes on these pangents and I had to kind of bring them back ever once in a while. Yeah, that happened. Yeah. So, Terrell, why don't you just get started and tell us how, you know, you got you started into reptiles and what led you to carpet pythons and short tails. Well, like everybody else who's a kid and isn't the dinosaurs, I was close to saying I could when I was a kid around four or five, my dad, he didn't breed, but he collected certain stakes and he had a Burmese python, a 14 foot Burmese python, a red cell boa and a ball python and I was completely fascinated by all three of them, but especially I wanted the bigger one. I wanted to be mine and he wouldn't give it to me, of course. Of course. Yeah, well, I mean, that makes kind of sense, yeah. And so I would help him, you know, when you're taking to the vet every month to get him checked out and stuff like that, I was always there, right in shotgun. And over time, it's just, I wanted a more and more, but my mom hated me so I can never have any at her house. So it's just, I had to find something else that I wanted, so I just got into, I wanted to be a paleontologist, so I got into reading books on paleontology at a very, very young age. And I wanted to do that really bad, and then the movie Jurassic Park came out and then I went back to just playing with dinosaurs. And like, no, no, can't have them. And actually, I was never afraid of snakes, but I was terrified of losers. And I just walked and no idea why, where it came from or anything. And then one day I come in my room and there's an alligator lizard on my pillow and I... (laughter) I said it comes in some frying and pearls in the corner because of the snakes that are the blizzard. That's not even doing anything, it's just sitting there on the pillow. And so he picked it up and he's talking to me about it and I ended up picking it up from him and holding it. And then from then it was pretty much over from there. I got my first lizard, a water dragon, a couple months later, and then from there they got older. And I school had about 30 different types of snakes. And my mom couldn't say anything because it wasn't a snake. (laughter) So it was completely away from me, but she's like, "Okay, this is never getting a little excessive." But I had tegus, the venom monitor, tailgaze, pretty much anything. I could get my hand on like this lizard, pretty much anything. And then I moved out. It was about five years ago. And then I was at the Red Sox Super Cheryl and Anaheim in 2012. And I was just, I wanted to do it because I used to do it with my dad all the time. And then from then I was like, "I need to get a snake." And now I don't live at home, so I need to get a good point snake. And from then it just grew and grew. I saw my first jumbo part of Python when I was right as I was leaving that show. And I had to have that. I got an assistant. And then from then it was a variety of snakes. I had doomeroles. I had a rasp snake for a while, like a bunch of a whole assortment of snakes. And then from then the number of random species decreased as carpets became more prevalent in my collection. So now it's mostly that in short tails. And April is my business partner. It's the reason why I got in the short tails. She got me my first samosheren as a president. And then from then, and that is the coolest niggas. Probably that I have. Yeah, cool. So quite you. Is there are you more Morelia or are you kind of more of the blood guy? Like where would you kind of put your passion here? Remember, you are on Morelia Python radio. So go on. Got the correct answer. And she's like, "Hey, we're getting the snake." And I'm like, "Oh, that looks cool." And then that's where that is in short tails. She's like, "Oh, it's going to live at your house. I'm like, sweet." Something to play with. All right. Cool. Yeah. I can understand that. Oh, yeah. I love them. I mean, they're little balls of attitude, at least minus. So... I have fun. That is the devil. But, I mean, I'm not going to get rid of her, but she... That stigma that is associated with short tails, she lives up to that. No. Oh, good. Okay. So she's not the one you bring to show. All right. Oh, no. So you kind of have this big array of species that you guys are working with over there. Can you kind of give us a brief overview of your collection that you guys are working with? Yeah. So we have, as far as carpets go, we have a couple albinos that were produced by Rock Wagner. Mm-hmm. One's an albino dragon, the other's just the albinos that are running coastal. Okay. A few caramels. I'm big into caramels. Well, primarily I'm big into coastal, because I think they're underappreciated for what they are. So I have mostly things with coastal in them, or just pure coastal. A few coastal jungles, I have my original jungle, I have some red coastal. Russian tiger. Couple jags. And then as far as short tails go, we have some negative albino ivories. A T-negative albinos. A T-positive. A few normal red bullhood. Couple Sumatrons. A bite from Borneo from the blood cell. Okay. That's cool. Just a few others. We believe that one of them is a VCI Borneo. So yeah, as well. She's also got some art. We'd like to attack you. Okay. And then there's a couple of normal balls sticking around that were the one that I have when it was my second snake. And when I got her she provided it and I didn't know that. So I had a surprise flush that I actually managed to get off the ground. Six to seven survives. One of them drowned in the egg. So I always kept around as a reminder of, you know, these are living things. Things happen. This is where you started basically. And then I have one of her babies that I kept on that clutch. We had a king snake kicking around and we have a green anaconda yellow on the conda. So there was six. Couple red elbows. I think that's it as far as variety. It's a pretty big variety. It's pretty big variety. It was the anacondas. I mean, so that's cool. What led you guys to form the company in the first place and for you to partner with the business partner? When I was getting into snakes, because I like to, I like to read about stuff and then do it. And there's sometimes where I just buy things and then read about it later. So I was looking for a new snake at the time when I met April. And I met April and she had far more snakes. She went to the point snakes and a bunch of different types of point snakes. And I was like, oh, that's pretty cool. And my first snake was a point snake. And we were like, the original idea for a business was me and my kid brother. And then he kind of threw up and didn't want to do it anymore. But April saw around, she's like, well, we didn't make something happen with that. And we started with balls. So that was where we were going to be balls. And then we quickly realized that we didn't want to do balls. And it was more of something that you're passionate about that you actually care about. And so I do carpets and then she chose short tails. And then from then, we're like, well, we can make this a legitimate, not so much to sell things, but, you know, for a place that people at the time would say want something from us that makes an actual space for it. And so that's pretty much where that started. And then interning to us doing educational things, we'll bring some of our snakes here and there to share kids and adults and stuff like that. We do meet up that part. And like, that's where the idea for carpets came from. It's like, well, let's expand our reach with our passion with as many people as we can. So, that's how it all comes. Very cool. Let me send you kind of going together and kind of moving forward all of those stuff. So it's a nice big diverse collection you got there. And these guys got together and kind of form it up. That's awesome. Mm-hmm. Especially because we're male and female. But she keeps me in check from buying random things that we don't need. And she stays on top of her game. So it's worked out better than I'd ever hoped it did. Cool. Terrell, you're coming in a little low. Are you, I don't know if you can adjust your volume. Better? Yeah, there you go. There we go. Good, good, good, good. Oh, wait. Are you still there? Bet you. I'm here. Okay. I'm just reading here. All right. So you have, let me ask you this question real quick, Terrell. You were just sort of hitting on this a little bit. But the whole idea of having a partner, you know, how do you guys work that? I mean, you don't have to go into detail if you don't want to. But I'm just curious on like, is it a 50/50 partnership? Do you have certain parameters? Because I see like, like what would be the advantage to doing that as opposed to, you know, just being by yourself and being TC designer. Yeah. Yeah. Everything is 50/50 between us. We don't go to any outside parameters. Well, if I sell this and I get more of it or you have that, everything we've led because we share the same passion and where we benefit as a team is, I do a lot of research into Maria and stuff like that. And she does short tails. So when there's something new or something like that, she relates it to me. And I do vice versa with her. That's first. I got you. Gain information faster by having two of us. Gotcha. And everything works out better and especially with social media because you can be on everything at once. If I missed something, she's usually on top of it. Or if there's an email that comes in, I can catch it if she doesn't and stuff like that. It just works out a lot better. Having two of us. Yeah. You know, if I ever hired somebody for anything to work for me, like, or if I did any kind of partner, that would be their job. I'd be in charge of Facebook. I'd go clean, snake crap all day long. Let me go play with my snake. You do everything else. There's a lot more tech than you think it is. Like, keeping on top of Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and everything else. And it's like, it becomes human. I think my website's never updated. I don't have a Twitter and I don't have an Instagram. Yeah. I noticed that. Yeah. You don't talk to me when you want things. What? I got to tell you, man, you know, this is the part of it that, you know, people talk about a weekly podcast and whatnot and I'm telling you, man, it's so hard to be, to stay on top of things and to put together a show and be on because not only do we have, do I do it for, you know, me personally, E. B. Morelia, now it's like, okay, so now we have to do it for Morelia Python radio, too. It's like, yeah, it's, it's difficult, you know. That's why. Yeah. Yeah. I applaud you guys for doing this weekly because I know a lot of people with, especially me, I wouldn't be able to do it every single week. Yeah. It's tough. I, I say all the time, like I'm amazed we do it every week, so. We were just talking about something today and it was like, you know, you see these trends come up and we're like, oh man, this is gonna, this is something different. This is, you know, and then it's like, oh wow. That would be cool if it continues and, you know, I, I never got it. I said, you was, don't worry, only nut jobs like us do something for three, fourteen years. You know, if it, if it gets, if again, for the longest time, it's like, I look at it as just like I used to listen to reptile radio. I always took it as two guys just hanging out, talking about snakes. It's not, we're not scientists. I'm not, I'm not by any stretch, any stretch of the means, like, you know, I'm not an expert. You know, that's why we have, they're like, yeah, yeah. So that leads us, I mean, I don't know if you caught what we were saying at the beginning to rel, but we were kind of talking about the current state of, you know, the carpet python slash Morellia. Yeah. All of that. Yeah. So you're kind of a newcomer to the carpet python scene and I don't know what's your thoughts on what you're seeing. What's your perspective from somebody that's kind of, you know, relatively new? I think you said you were in keeping them for three years or so. Yeah. And so when I first got into it, well, firstly, as a newcomer, it is very hard to get a feel for the people in this particular community because a lot of you have been together or know each other for a long time. So taking the lead off of, hey, I just got this cast snake that you're happy with and somebody's like, well, it could happen anywhere, but it seems to be more drastic and so when I started, I didn't really say much to anybody because like, I like to stay behind the scenes or I don't really respond to a lot of things and I did a lot of research on my own, which is what a lot of people don't do that are coming to this because now that I talk to people that have questions and it's like, it's a simple question that you could have found or if you would have asked the breeder that you're talking about, he probably would have given you the answer for it. So it's like nobody wants to look for their own information. Yes. Which I could see where that would be annoying if you're getting it all the time. Like, just like you guys were talking about with, can you help ID my snake? Well, if a nice carpet bike honks, they can't help you. Yeah. And there's a hundred points below yours that are the exact same thing. So if you just looked at the response from that, you would get your answer. But I love those threads because it's like, what is my snake? And somebody goes, I think it's jungle, then amelior and you said it's like, I think it's coastal. It's like, well, are you going to keep going until somebody says something that you really, really like? And then you're like, that's it. That's right. That one. That's it. It's a Darwin head, albino triple head, hippopotamus, done, brand new morph. Yeah. Totally cool. I'll go with that one now for the rest of my breeding career. You know, and in fairness, the probability of breeders that have been at this game for a long time, they've probably seen this writing on the wall. You know, I mean, if you go back to the days when it was just some jungles and some coastals and you had a tiger and then there's a jagged thing, you know what I mean? It's kind of like, you know, they were always against this mixing of the subspecies because you get these snakes that you really, you know, a lot of them, a lot of them are beautiful in their own right, but you don't really know what it is. So. Which I feel you should be fine with that. I have snakes that I have no idea where they can't swim. I like them and I keep them because they're cool, like, I go by what they were told me of, but I didn't buy them in hopes that they happen to be by this breeder or that breeder. And it's like, I like this snake, that's why I had it. It's like, if I plan to breed it, then I know for all that I don't know what I'm dealing with. So, anybody outside of, you know, post friends or something like that or something other than what I think they are. Right. It's the people who think that it's the people who are trying to find the diamond in the rough that I pulled them out of a bin and it looks really nice. Will somebody please tell me it's pure jungle? This way I can take this $50 carpet button that I bought and turn it into babies, turn it out to producing babies because I see jungles for 500 bucks on somebody else's table. What they don't realize is those jungles have not only the color to back up what they're putting out there, but they have linear information as well. So, it's almost like, you know, and that's what people want because that's what I think a lot of people are used to is with other animals, there's not a lot of commingling with the subspecies to Indian boa, but I mean, normally, ball python is a ball python is a ball python. I mean, if I grab this at a bin on somebody's table and I think it's a this, more for this thing, it probably is, so. And it's like these go down to a locality specific. It could be five feet away from where you think it was and it's a totally different locality of carpet python. So, you can't really expect into what you think it is, just go by what you thought it was and then just leave it at that. Yeah, you also have that perspective. I don't know if you guys have run into this, but then you have like, you have the guys down in Australia, it's like, we post up something is this, and they're like, that's not that, you know, it's like, yeah, just saw to my backyard yesterday, man, that's not what they look like. Yeah, like, probably, probably we are so far removed from the wild types of ridiculous. Wasn't there somebody on, like, like somewhere on Facebook earlier last week or something that's like, I got this jungle to got it from somebody who was straight from Australia and I'm like, hell am I reading here? So, I mean, it's like, it's like, please God, don't tell me this dude fell for something like that. That's horrible. If somebody's out there going, yes, direct to them, Australia, get them while you can, I'd be like, I'd be done, I'd be totally done. I'd lose my mind. Yeah. Well, yeah, that would lead me to my next topic, you know, the thoughts on accountability and responsibilities for us as keepers, as breeders, you know, what are your thoughts on that? And light of recent events, well, even before that because if you read about things and you're certain of what they are, just be honest, yeah, it's not, it's not difficult. If you don't know what it is, you don't know what it is. If you're snake six, say it's snake. You have mites, say you have mites, say, okay, this guy's mites, I'm probably not going to buy anything from him in the next couple months, but that doesn't mean that you're now the blue community, but if you're going to lie about it and then lie on top of lying about it and then you get caught and then backpedal, what do you think is going to happen? It's one of those things where everyone had to dealt with mites and if you have not gotten them, it's because you haven't been plugged into a community long enough or you are lying and that's just how it goes. They happen. To be honest, I've had them before and what you do is you shut down, you completely stop. I had them at a point where there was a big breaking show, I didn't have any for a while and it was awesome because I was able to go ape shit and clean my entire collection and not miss the next show. But it was one of those things where nothing got shipped out, nobody came over. No animals were, I'm not driving a friend's animal from my place, I'm not driving a friend's animal from the show to my house for a day or two and then drop them off at his place which I do all the time with friends. It's like everything's shut down, I went freaking dark and that's what you have to do. You're allowed to talk to clients, you're allowed to tell the clients and sell the clients, you be up front and nothing leaves until you are certain it is done. And that's the way it goes. You lose a couple of sales, you lose a couple of sales. People got to understand, sometimes animals don't eat, sometimes animals get sick, sometimes you get mics, sometimes the animals get dead and as long as you're up front honest and supportive of this, there are no problems. Like if you lie or if you cover it up or if you deny, that's what you're going to have issues. And that's what the problem is. Do you think that it has to do with breed? Go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I was just going to say, I feel like with a community, like you know what you're getting into if you're into this community, like you see what happens every day. You know how close these people are. I had a while to try to put something past them when they've already seen it, it heard about it, read it all before years before you. Exactly. And you kind of got to understand that some are really a breeders who have been doing business with each other for 20 years, maybe more. I mean, that's the way it rolls, so. I remember there was an experience that I had where I clearly, I clearly didn't understand. I went and gave a talk on carpet fights on morphs, Tinley. I guess I could say. I loved that talk. It was great. You were like, you're like, I believe that like one question, like this is fantastic. Do it. Yeah, whatever, you know, so, okay. I gave a talk and I was shown an animal that I thought when I got this bundle of pictures was, you know, good to go and that I could, you know, use this picture. I made a mistake. I didn't realize that, you know, the person that told, I don't know if the person wants me to tell who it was. So I'm not going to say a name. But I didn't realize that that was just like an extra, you know what I mean? That was a hot question. Yeah, I didn't realize that that's how that went. But anyway, what I, you know, what had happened is I literally, I walked in my door from Tinley Park and that person that called me on the phone and, you know, they were pretty pissed and rightfully so, because they thought that, you know, I went and was doing this and that they couldn't trust me or whatever, but the, the, what I guess my point in the story is is that literally what you're saying is correct that the community is so tight that that kind of stuff goes from East Coast to West Coast of a day, you know what I mean? And people are going to know this stuff. So the idea that, you know, that you can keep something top secret or just hope that it's that you're, you know what I don't know. It's, it's such a niche species of pythons that, you know, it's, it's just silly to think that that's not going to happen. Everybody knows everybody and word travels faster than the speed of light nowadays. So if you fuck up in Tinley, I'm going to know about it sitting in my bedroom in frickin Pennsylvania within 20 minutes. That's how it goes. So I think it's the responsibility of the breed. I think sometimes, I don't know, maybe you guys give me your opinions after I say this, but I think sometimes that we hold breeders on this pedestal that sometimes is unrealistic. And what I mean by that is that you could keep an immaculate collection and shit's going to happen. You're going to get lights, you're going to get respiratory infections, you're going to get. Something's going to die. Animals just die and, you know, all these something or other. Yeah. You're going to ship out an animal and something's maybe not right with it. I mean, you know, all these kinds of things can, can happen. I think the test of a good breeder is for a snake set dealer or whatever you want to call them is how you deal with that problem afterwards. Of course. There are certain problems that can be helped by you and there are certain ones that cannot. You know, you can pack an animal correctly every single fricking time, every time. And some heat pack can fail and the animal can die in transit. It wasn't your fault, but you have to pretty much bite the bullet to make it right by the customer standpoint. And that's all. And we've said this millions of times you as a business owner and as a reptile breeder need to represent yourself and your company in a certain light if you're going to be perceived in a certain light. Bad things happen. You step up to the plate and you make them right. No matter how much they suck to make right, you do it. And then everybody leaves with a good feeling, no bad taste in the mouth. And then when somebody asked that person about you to go, "Yeah, well, we had a bad thing where, you know, something shitty, have animal-biotic transit." You know what, the guy sent me to replace it or he sent me this other one, "I love this one." You know, "I get first figured babies this year or something like that." You do that. You know, there's always different ways around it. Well, people are buying from you because they want to believe in your products. They want to trust you. It's like, you have to show them, you have to prove it basically. You can't stop everything from happening. Things will happen to everybody, especially if you're pursuing your shipping thing or it. Everything could happen. But that person is not looking for you to be upset that that particular incident happened, but how you handle yourself afterward. Yeah. How do you police that for other breeders and, you know, like, how do you police other breeders? And who should even do it? Well, I would like to propose a secret police of Morelia police officers where if you do something wrong, we show up to your house with the tons, we beat you and we take all the Morelia out of your collection, you're no longer allowed to have them. All right. I would volunteer as well for people, remember, yeah, I mean, but I think the policing is, again, we police ourselves and where we police ourselves is, you know, you vote with your dollar. And it's if this guy, if you, your most important asset in a rep documentation, if your reputation is tarnished, it will affect you for years. And it will, it will not do well for you. It will come back. It will bite you. It will beat you up. It will be bad. People will bring up something that happened several years ago to you all the dance on it. That's the way it goes. Because something might be stuck fresh in their mind that you may have forgotten about it, tell them things like that that happened. So if you, if you don't do right by the community, the community is not going to be nice to you in turn. So I kind of want to say the policing happens out. But of course, I say this because I think that's what it should be and how I would like to think it is, but, you know, the guy who's yet, I see the guy is at Hamburg who have nothing but 20 gallon tank displays and crate of pick your own tortoise just imported from, you know, Burma. So it's, those guys are there all the time, every time. So it's kind of like, I would kind of hope that the upper echelon, more reptile involved people would know the difference between somebody who is stummy and who is not. But I would be, wouldn't be surprised if they didn't. Well, don't you think that you go ahead. Well, how would you track, you know, who, I mean, say you have a newcomer that comes in, first you buying, you know, expensive snakes to make you take notice, blah, blah, blah. You're the greatest, perfect leader, yada yada yada. You're under the impression that he's a good guy, but you don't know his business practices. And it's all hearsay after the fact that there are multiple people who have gotten, you know, a day animal, a sick animal, and stuff like that. That happens every day. And it's like, how would you keep track of those people? I don't know. I think, I know that's a tough question. I think, I think what I was going to say is, oh, and you have, you brought up a point of, you know, going to a show. I think, we used to talk about this before, but I think that one of the things that show promoters have to do is start to be a little more particular on who they allow to come and vent at shows. Again, you say this and you want to believe that the show promoter and vendor will do that. But most of the time, they just only care about not having too many of the same animal representatives. Yeah, but, but listen, look at, look at what Brian Potter does with Tinley Park and the NR. Good. And that is Tinley Park and NR is one of the big shows. And I love that. I know, but my point is that no, no, you can't have that attitude because the reason that that show became a big show, well, look at it years ago, Daytona used to be the show. Of course. But why is Daytona not the show anymore because of all the crap that comes in the door? I'm just, I'm telling you that some people, some promoters have the formula of how they make the money and how they make the money is they have that amount of how much is going to cause to do this, this and this. And they're just going to let these people keep renewing and they're going to come in and they're going to renew their four or five tables and that's it. And they're, that's not going to change until those people have removed themselves from the herd community and those slots are filled with better people or at least more breeder oriented people. But how do you get those kind of goes up? How do you get to change their ways of doing things? You don't buy from them. You don't buy. You don't get that show. No. Or you don't go to the show. If you have a show that, you know, they have crappy people there, well, you're not going to go. You don't, you don't buy from the crappy people, the crappy people stop coming to the show and the show turns over to the other people, that's how it goes. You know, I know for a fact that if the dealers and the wheelers and dealers don't make their money, they don't come to the show. There's no point. Well, I'm not even talking, I'm not even saying that everybody that that is a wheeler and dealer is necessarily a bad person because I'm sure that they're, yeah, I'm sure that they're people that are, you know, but I'm just saying, like, if you clearly walk around some shows, I don't know how it is on the West Coast Terrell, but here on the East Coast, you can go to some shows and you can clearly see, you know, the 10 gallon fish tank sitting on the thing with a Burmese that's 13 feet clearly has a respiratory infection and clearly, you know, it's bad shit. You know what I mean? It's just like. Yeah, exactly. So, at the last one January at the rest of the show, there was a booth, I'd never heard of the guy before, but he had a albino Darwin, a nice looking one for sale, and then he had a bunch of baby puppies that were also for sale. I saw that because they were just marked numeric, like coastal, and then hat and then like the where was that hat, like what it was, was like washed out, and like, oh, what's in this? And he's like, well, I've tech ran it and had albino, and he was telling it for her, I think like 75 bucks. I was like, holy hell, pretty impressive for, you know, 100% double hat, like, well, you know, I'm trying to get rid of all these snakes, I don't want to do it anymore, blah, blah, blah. So I asked him to look at the snake, and that in my hand, I thought that snake was going to die. And like, you could see the bubbles, and like, every, like, that snake was a cry for help. Oh, like, well, you know, and I just wanted to see what he'd say, so it was like, well, you know, he takes 25 off to the snake stick, and he's like, oh, no, it's good to go. He's like, yeah, they get like, it'll be fine. I'm like, okay, and then, um, so I put the snake down, and I pick up the next one, same thing. And I was like, all right, so those people, I went over to the star python booth, and then people like, oh, yeah, there's a booth over there that's got shippers, uh, carpets over there, and I was like, don't, don't go there, like, I was like, you want your animal to live past the next few days, then just, you want to get it home. Yeah. Yeah. But how would you, you don't know me, you don't know my background, how would you just lie to my face like that, and like, a few, but I don't know, you'd know nothing about me. Right here. But apparently, that trick works on numerous people, because you would still there, and I think you've ended that show the year before, too. Wow. It's, it's how it goes. It's honest, I got how it goes, and it's, it's, it's, it's one of those really get the shame that you get into these corners with these kinds of stuff, but, uh, I would very much like for the shows to be, like, dimly, I mean, that was awesome. So, and, uh, yeah, it's kind of hard to get away from it sometimes, I guess, for certain shows. Yeah, I, I don't know, I mean, I'm, I think you support people who are good, and those people will rise to the top, you know, time and time again. I think that's kind of the trick, I, I don't know. I just think that if you, you know, we always say vote with your dollar, but if you support people that, that are good, um, I think long term, you know, they'll pass on those, those ideas and, and how they, you know, not everybody that is a good snake breeder is a good business person. No, that is true. You know? Or even, or even a non awkward weird person. I mean, I've met some of the best snake breeders and some of them are weird people. I mean, you just got to understand that it's just that kind of goes hand in hand with some stuff. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. What do you think about, um, I mean, I'm curious to hear this from your perspective, um, throughout, but the influx of, of new, um, Moralia keeper, it's kind of like this catch 22 type of thing. I mean, in order for the carp of Python market to, uh, you know, continue to grow, you have to have new people coming in because there's only so many, I find, I don't know what you guys are, but in the first year that I produce zebra jags in 2012, um, a lot of people were hesitant about getting that and paying that high dollar because they can just make it themselves. So do you lower the price? Do you know what I mean? It's kind of like you're, you know, I remember me and Jason Bailen because he produced him that year too. And it was kind of like, uh, what do we do? You know, uh, we're not really sure on how to price them because you don't want to go too low. You don't want to go too high. Um, I think the only way to kind of beat that is to bring new people into the community. But with that, you know, you have new people and old people and like, yeah, I think the whole Facebook thing is kind of, I don't know, split, split it up made that divide more prominent. What's your thoughts? Yeah. My, how I feel about that is, well, first of all, I think Facebook is the reason there is so many problems in this particular community because they, there's a page for the difference of PC. So if you guys have going on, well, somebody doesn't like that page, so they just make another one and then they include another species in that over like now there's what we classified pages and it's hard to contract of everything that's going on. So for somebody that's brand new, let's say you'd never, you're looking to buy your first part of my son, you have all these people telling you to go one way and there's this fight going on and it's like, join this page and blah, blah, blah, there's no bullshit here when it's really the same thing just on a different page and so you can't get information like you could if they were, say, a forum where there was one classified page, you had the different, the breakdown of different folks, so you could just click on that one thing and get what you were looking for and then if you're looking for it, say a tiger jag, people are pointing in the correct direction as opposed to now or it's like, oh, I haven't been looking for a tiger jag, well, you could talk to this breeder or on this page or this page and this option and this classified so it's kind of, it's being fragmented within itself. Yeah. Because you already have multiple snakes that you're dealing with and now you're adding different opinionated people on different sides, pretty much duplicating what's already there. Right. Because I talked to a couple of people that want to get, actually yesterday, they wanted to get in the cover if I was like, well, I know, I'm looking for this particular one. Could you point me out a Facebook group that has it and like, I can't help you anymore. Maybe last year I would have been able to help you but you can have to look around or I can ask people. And like you were talking about earlier, Eric, about putting breeders on a pedestal, a lot of newcomers do that too, where you get starstruck people, you hear a certain name or this snake it from this line and this line, people name drop like pre-weeds. How delordious. And that and, you know, and there's things to be proud of but there's also, I've asked people that, okay, well, who are these people that you're referring to, like your snake was bred by this line and this line, who are you talking about? And I have no idea. I don't know, that's just what it was hoping to be at, why are you using the names of the reference? Right. Yeah, that's a good point. You know, I guess they want to make their animal that more special, more special, you know? It's almost like you have to. Well, I have a snake from, well, I'm not sure, okay, I'll use Jason Baelyn as an example. I have a striped coastal that possibly could be one of the snakes. So I, instead of asking him, hey, did you produce this snake and send him a thousand pictures of it? I asked more about his line and he's like, well, I mean, it could be from Melissa, and then he gave me that history on what it was, and then I went on the forums and I was looking around at, you know, snakes that have been produced close to what I thought it was. I mean, I still don't call it a bait, it's still a striped coastal to me, but I wasn't trying to gain his approval by having a snake produced by him. I was just curious of this is what it possibly is, can you give me some history into that? Right. And a lot of people don't do that, that I see, or there's other newbies trying to coach newbies. They've become like fanboys of particular breeders, like, well, you should get your snake from this person. They're the greatest ever blah, blah, and then if you ask the breeders, like, I don't care. This guy probably has a nicer version of that snake than I do. Right. Yeah, I think you just hit on a big thing is the whole fanboy thing is probably what I see when we were talking earlier at the beginning of the show about these different clicks. And, you know, it's kind of like, I don't know, one of the three years and I've not reached any benefits of it, you know, shit, nothing, you all this shit and I don't get anything. Yeah, right. One of the things that impressed me about carpet row at Tinley Park was the fact that when you first think about the idea, you think about, wow, you're going to have six or seven carpet python breeders all in a row and they're going to be trying to sell carpet pythons and more or less competing with each other. But it didn't work out that way. You had, I remember specifically, you know, it was Andrew Parris and his buddy Dan and, you know, they were looking, he was looking to buy iJs and he more or less said, you know, he wanted something that wasn't the same from the same pairing. So he bought one for me and then I said, well, if you really want killer iJs, the guy you really want to go see is at the end of the table here, Luke Snell, you know what I mean? You can't get any better than what he has is like the top of the line, you know, where he's looking at my iJs and saying, wow, these are awesome. And I'm saying, just what you just said, like, no, no, these are nice, don't get me wrong, but you want to make sure you get something from Luke. And vice versa, you know, if they were looking for something along the lines of like, you know, tiger jags or anything like that, you know, Jason's the guy and I don't know, just was a very good sense of, you know, making sure that the keeper was getting pointed in the right direction. Right. And I think to add a keeper and that somebody that, you know, wants to be a partner in the community in a positive way, if like, I have people ask me, oh, well, do you have this more from this more than like, I, my first purpose haven't even half yet. So I don't have anything that you're looking for, but I know this person does that. I don't try to, I guess, posting other breeders to make yourself look better. I guess is the way I put it. Right. I've seen that happening quite a bit too. Yeah. And it's, it's not people that have been doing this a long time. It's people that, you know, that just sprung up last week and they now have 60 carbapatons or $1,000 each, like, where did you come from? I don't understand. Yeah. Those people are really annoying. You'll pop out of nowhere and buy a bunch of snakes in your backyard and freak out. You know, you know, that's a, that's a stereotype that, that I kind of had to fight for a while. Yeah. You did. That's why I said it. You know, I was like, yeah, it was in like, I didn't really start buying snakes until buying carbapatons until 2008, 2008, 2009. Yep. And, you know, I like you, Torel was in, in the boat of, well, you know, I kind of want to do this and I kind of, I kind of fancy the idea of maybe making this aside business and, you know, what, what could have, what could I do to sort of fund my hobby type of thing and for a while, I was into the whole ball python thing and I kind of moved away from that because there was, I just looked at it as there was no way that I would ever be able to get to the level of what these guys were doing. You know what I mean? It was just like, it was just a mountain. I couldn't climb. So it's like, why bother, you know, and I started looking around. What's that? Oh no, every week there's five new morphs, like, how do you catch up with that? Yeah. Yeah. You spent a crack on a money. And then there's the, even if you do, I think like, even if you do, by the time you would buy whatever morph it would be, you know, by the time it's ready to breed, it's going to be obsolete. It's, it's, I don't know, I just felt like it was just the, if you weren't going to do something because you really dug what you were doing, then it just seemed like you would never be able to, to keep up, which led me to, which was a kind of a good thing because it led me to kind of go over to MP. And for a while, I didn't post anything, I just kind of lurked, lurked around and looked and listened to what people were doing and, you know, what, what these guys were all about. And then I decided it's like, you know how you can like go to a reptile show and you buy reptiles on a whim, you know, it's like, yeah, this is kind of cool. You pick it up and then you have this like crazy collection where it's like, all right, well, I just spent, I don't know, I'll say a number, I just spent $5,000 over the course of the year, but I don't really have anything to show for it because I have like all these different species, which are cool. But ultimately, if I want to breed, this is not the root that I want to, that this is just in my mind that I wanted to go because I was a, when I first got back into it, you know, I had African rock pythons, Chinese water dragons, bearded dragons, you know, Burmese pythons, you know, retics, ball pythons, Nile monitor, Savannah monitor, you know, it was just like, this is just the nursery of reptiles, and I never really found like what that direction that I wanted to go until I found carpet pythons, so it's like, okay, I'm going to take that same amount of money that I was going to spend, but I'm going to focus it super, super focus it on trying to get the best of the best. That was the one thing that I always took from reptile radio is like, you know, those guys used to say all the time, like, you know, don't just go buy a pastel ball python because you want a pastel ball python, find the guy that breeds the best pastel ball pythons and buy from him, you know, but that guy that breeds the best pastels might not be the same guy that breeds the best ball pythons, so you want to go to a different guy to get that, so it's kind of the approach that I took when I was getting into it, it's kind of like, okay, well, I want the best tigers, where do I go? Well, I'm not going to go buy somebody, I'm not going to go buy a Jason Bailin animal from another person, why not just go straight to Jason Bailin, you know what I mean? Yes, that's going to work. So I don't know, that would be my advice to people, and ultimately, when I was focused like that, you know, I was able to, I guess, be more successful, but a lot of people are like, well, who the fuck is this Eric Burke guy, you know, like, who's he? Yeah, I know you would have, he's an asshole, he's a dick, he's going to ruin me being that he's in Philadelphia too, anyway, the difference I see with you doing that, though, is the outcome was you're actually passionate and give a shit about this, where there's a lot of people that, you know, they're not ending it, so to be honest, this is why Merle, you probably done already, it was born, is didn't Nick tell you you needed to get your face out there, because, of course, nobody was going to be able to trust you, Eric? Well, yeah, I mean, that's a huge thing, like, you know, I remember talking to Nick on the phone, and he told me, he's like, listen man, you know, what led me finally to meet Nick, what, actually, in the beginning, I was afraid of Nick, you know, he really scares you that, because I would listen to his post on MP, and I was like, whoa, let's do your Lord. He's intense, man, and he knows a shit, he's very intimidating to me, you know, I remember his avatar on MP was this guy, and he was just punching somebody, he was just, it was like an accident scene, he was just punching, he was just like, punching, punching, punching, punching, punching, punching, punching, punching, punching, punching, he's, his other one was of Ron Burgundy, and I loved it when it was that one, that was great, you know, it was just like, I was like, damn, even this, so I wanted to buy breadels, and I, you know, again, file in that same mindset, it was like, okay, if you want to buy breadels, Python, just go to the guy with the best breadels, which was Nick, and I sent him an email, and he was like, Nick's not an email type of guy, he's like a guy, he'll say, all right, give me a call, you know, he's like, this is too much to type out, just give me a call. You know, it was like, I was like, oh man, I can't call this guy and talk to him, what if you search y'all and have me or something. Anyway, finally, lost to her shirt, it came to, I wanted caramel jags, and I had no choice but to call him, you know, and we got to talk in, you know, he was, I was on the phone for like five hours, I think, and, you know, yeah, he was telling me that he was in, he's like, look man, if there's anything you want, you just let me know what it is, and I'll point you in the direction, and I'll try to get it for you, and that's when he started importing from Paul at UK Python's, and he's like, okay, well I'm going to bring a caramel jag, so he brought the caramel jag over, and you know, dude, I was on, oh my god, that was just like the craziest thing ever, I was like, I couldn't believe it, I got a caramel jag, this is just nuts, you know, and, you know, today it's sort of like no big deal, but back then it was, you know, millions of dollars later, it's like, you know, yeah, but no, Nick, Nick said, you know, he told me, he was like, you know, you're spending all this money, I think it was after the second shipment from Paul, he's like, dude, you're spending all this money, but people don't know who you are, you know, I mean, I don't know who you are or what you represent, you need to get your name out there, I think at the time, B.H.A.F always makes fun of me for this, but my screen name was Burke Filla, and he, you know, he's always like, who the hell is Burke Filla, you know, what the hell is that, it changed immediately to your name, anyway, you know, I don't know, you know, I think maybe, I think maybe you're right, the fact that, you know, I was really passionate and listened to those guys, and I still do, you know, I still look to them as the experts, so to speak, and if I have a problem, I go to them, you know, but I've also spent a lot of money, I think, you know, nothing, I've had my first taste of this, this year is that you have so many contact you, and they're like, asked you a question about a snake that they asked you about buying from you, but they decided to go buy it from somebody else, but they call and ask you the question, you know, yeah, yeah, I want somebody else, but it won't eat, okay, and it's like, I always want to be like, you should go ask them, but I can't, I feel bad, so, um, I don't know. So how do you think, how do we, Terrell, in your thoughts, how do you get those new people and old people to sort of, you know, how do you direct them in that direction, because like we said, if you're a relatively good breeder, probably more than likely you don't have time to be posting that on Facebook, you know, well, I think a lot of it goes into, you just hit a good point that people are afraid to talk to older people, they're intimidated by them, they idolize them and are afraid of, you know, fucking it up when they talk to them or something like that, they're just people though, because you got to have a cut, a chill, yeah, instead of asking in a Facebook post, you know, about this person or other animal, why not just ask them, because a lot of people post this or that, and then like, the post under, it'll be that person, the person they're talking about, they'll be tagged in it, like to bring the mentors, like if you would have just started with asking them the first place, then we wouldn't be seeing this right now. If you're concerned about looking like a dumbass or sounding like a dumbass, you just perfectly find to email the breeder that you have a question for, because, you know, I will totally, I'm totally cool with answering emails, totally cool answering emails, and so is everybody else I know who's in Morelia and it was breeding, and we'll fire emails back, and I promise we're not going to make fun of you, it's cool, but the people who make money, or the people who aren't the breeder when you throw it up on Facebook, so that's where you're going to have the issue. So if you have a question and you're a little self-conscious about it, reach out privately. I mean, there were, and of course, every once in a while, you have those moments where you feel done shy, no matter how many times you've been doing, you've been raising babies. I think I picked Buddy Bishami's brain so much over that he forgot like a year of medical school, like a nursing school, because I've just dug in there so much for the fricking. How do I, how do I keep green tree pythons alive, stuff? And if you think I wasn't sitting there with like my phone about ready to call Nick the first time I fed my rough-scale pythons, you're back shit crazy. So it's just, that's the way it goes. You're allowed to get nervous. Jason Bailin admitted to me that he was nervous when he got his albinos for the first time, and how he was getting, like he called Nick and goes, "It's not even, it's not even." And Nick's like, "Jason, calm down." It happens, we're all fricking human, and sometimes these fuckers go crazy, and they kind of just knock us sideways. You've got to take a couple of times, you've got to take a deep breath, you know, and work your way through it. Yeah, but there's a lot of these real kind of things for me, but I mean, I like talking to him, and he's very informative, so, you know, when I have a question or something, then I'll ask him, or I talk to Mike Purgine, numerous thoughts, but I didn't buy him from him, but that was like, after a few conversations with him. Yeah, I think you bring up Derek Roddy. For me, it's probably somebody like, "I'll give a related experience with him." For years, we talked, and I bought multiple things from Derek, and what a great guy. I just think he's such a cool guy, such a positive, no bullshit kind of guy, and that's kind of like, I'm drawn to that. I wouldn't say that I necessarily always agree with things, he says, but I just love his the history that he has of things, and his ideas, and I think he's just an awesome guy. But I'm a huge fan of the Ben Dream Theater, and he tries out for them, so I go and they had this DVD where they were taking a new drummer, and I go in and I'm watching it, and he's on their goddamn DVD, and I'm like, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Really? I'm talking to him with text messages and back and forth, and I'm like, "This is just nuts." Oh, dude, this past Henry, we're at the bar freaking Saturday, and I'm sitting between Kerry King and Jason Bailin, and we're talking about diamond python to the carbon python stuff, and we keep getting interrupted so that Kerry can be fawned over by a fan or two, and it's like that, and you have that moment of, "How the hell am I sitting here?" Like, you know, 2004 Owen, who would leave Jason Bailin's table alone, should not be sitting here, so it's just the way it goes, you know, if you're chill, if you're cool, everybody's going to be cool with you, and that's how it rolls, so you've got to love it. Yeah, I think that's exactly it, if you don't come in, don't be blazing, and just relax, I think people will be more, you know, receptive of what it is that you're saying you're doing, and it'll carry you a lot better than a lot of what's going on right now. Yeah, yeah, I think an important part in communication, I say this all the time at work, but an important, probably the most important part of communication is listening, and sometimes people have, that is like the hardest thing for people to do, so if you're going to communicate with somebody, I've always found that, like, if I'm going to ask somebody a question, I'm going to actually listen to what they're actually saying, and they're not thinking of the next question before they even have a chance to answer the first question. So what would you say to the new person, I think maybe you've already kind of hit on this, but what would be the best ways for new people to become knowledgeable and accepted and engaged in the community? What advice would you give me? The best advice I would give is what I did, and it's do your research prior to, like, even if you just bought a carpet pipe on, on a whim, and you're excited about it and happy about it, that doesn't mean, you know, now you've got it, you don't know everything. Like, I'm still reading stuff every day, when I got my second or third one, I was talking to a person of mine, and he's like, "Well, do you have a carpet pipe on book?" And I was like, "No, what is this?" And so he sends me a link, and I bought it, and I read it twice, and it's like, I stumbled across the order of podcasts because I was looking for more information, and then I came across the complex list and the most list, and then I thought there was actually a podcast, and then that's how I started listening to it. Cool. Yeah, I wonder, sometimes, like, how to get that more out, you know, because I think at this point, a big part of our show is geared towards newer people, you know, and I've always tried to figure out a way to get, to capture them, to sort of see it in the right direction. It's one of the things where, like, Corel is, like, everybody, everything we've built here with Miley Python already, with the website on stuff, was all four new people like Corel, who just found us. I mean, when you and I got started in this area, there was MileyAtPilons.com, there was a handful of reptiles and Bavarium articles written by breeders, but then there were also articles in Bavarium and reptiles that were written by dumbasses, so you got to know which one's the read, which one's not the read, and then after that, there was nothing, just conversations on MP.com and what you could learn from picking the brains of the breeders at the shows. That was it. Yeah. You didn't have the podcast, you didn't have everybody on Facebook. You didn't have... A book? No. A book? A book? Yeah. A freaking book. Also, you didn't have this many morphs. I mean, people went apeshit for tri stripes, and jags were still close to about two grand when I first started with Carpapilons when I got my first one, and that's where you were. So I think Bailin was breeding tigers, and that was it, you had tigers, you had jags that were really expensive, and that was it. And it just... To see all these animals who have come in, and all these different types, and morphs, and localities, and everything, it's been a dream. Awesome. Shit, man. I remember when the first albino... Yeah. What was the guy's name? Chris Proctor, I think it was, from Sobek. That was Chris. Reptiles, you know, and it was like he hatched it out, and it was like, "What?" He had the first albino born in the States, and he wrote that article and put it in for a kid, Reptiles Magazine, and it's hilarious, because a bunch of stuff happened and he ended up folding, but Chris Proctor had purchased a pair of caramel carpets from Paul, and those carmels were sold to me, and that's where all my carmels come from. So it's hilarious to have that break down of it, and I can remember this guy being right in there, and I can remember all this stuff happening. It's so cool. I remember Zebra's first popping up, and just going, "Heep, shit." I was talking to this with Mike Curtin, the last flight plane show, where he's like, "Everybody is getting into Darwin albino," and I'm like, "Eh, no, not really," and then Mike said that the first Zebra came across the first Zebra, and you walked his mind, and I'm like, "Of course, you're a jungle guy." "Oh, yeah." "You're a jungle now. This has got lightning bolts all over it, of course you weren't crazy." So, okay, so what about, I guess my question would be just curious, you know, with you coming from a bunch of different, you know, species that you're working with, do you see people wanting to get into carpet pythons, do you see them excited about it? I see lately, actually, you know, given that question, it's been like the last month and a half, but I've had more people, like when I post something on Instagram, that are more engaged in carpet pythons, because when I post the blood or something like that, that's something that people aren't really excited about right now, and so it kind of leads the carpet to the side, but now I see more and more people being like, "What is the hack?" You know, you have any for sale, blah, blah, and they want to know more about them, but I try to point them to you, but a lot of my websites, the way I built it, was based around when I was trying to find information, it was scattered all over the place, and it was a piece thing together, so I kind of built the website around getting people to, does that have it? So, like, I have your podcast link to it, the forums, which I've spent hours on just reading different things, and when something comes up and I have a question, I usually go there first before I ask anybody. Right. Yeah, I mean, that's an invaluable tool, you know. And it's like, you can go back, what was it? Oh, there's an NG line of Derek, so it's like, "Well, what the hell is that?" Right. So, you could find bits and pieces of jazz people, but there's a lot of people not clear on it, because there's at the Novogannis and then his wife, so I spent hours just going through piece things, like going through a post on that, and it's really invaluable. All the information that's on that, and I think the more people could use it, rather than go on Facebook and ask questions, because you see it, a better response, I feel, from a forum setting than, you know, "Okay, I'll put it this way." Okay, somebody post a picture on Murrell at the particular week, and they post the exact same picture on another group, and then you have two sets of people, because we're responding on two different things. So, if there's a piece of information that one person has, it's gonna be all over the place. Yeah. So, there's multiple posts of the exact same thing. Yeah. Yeah, it's a good point. I didn't even ever think of that. You know, my approach, I think one of the things that I've tried to do with that, because I have to admit, I kind of get a little annoyed when I open up Facebook, and I see the same picture in my feed, like, ten times. Two times. Thank you. Thank you. Although, yeah. Today was a pair of duns, Python, so I was enjoying seeing that same exact picture like 12 times. Yeah, but I guess in defense of that, here's the thing, like in defense of that, you sort of are, I've all been struggling with this, you're trying to capture a huge audience, so from a business point of view, you want to spread that out as much as you can. But you want to stretch that net to try to catch as many people as you get, you know? But when you're looking at it from the aspect of, I'm just going to say for myself, it's kind of like, am I coming across as annoying? I don't want to be that, I don't want to be annoying to somebody, like, really, he's posting this again. Really 12 things of the same damn tiger. You like, come on, dude. I get it. I've got an album. I know Zebrajack. Yeah. I mean, I can understand that, but you know, it's like, again, nobody's centralized. It's all spread out. So it's like, all right, I want to throw pictures of my savoos. I throw them on the pick of the week because I know there are people there who like them, but then I got to throw them on the awesome one, I ask this thing, okay, oh, I should throw them on a rogue's Facebook page, okay, there. And then it's like one to three four places already been filled up. And, you know, now you've seen my savoos four times, and you might be like, if Owen posted damn savoos one more time, we'll punch him in the face. So it's, that's what it, you got to kind of get to everybody, and that's where it kind of would get annoying if you follow me in all those places. Yeah, I think that's what it is. It's the following people in multiple groups because you want, you want to share the same stuff. Yeah. Post here, and then you got a post there, and then you got a post here because there's people in one group that aren't in another, but they like their particular snake or whatever. So you'll have a comment. I try to break it up as I can, but yeah. I started limiting them to, I'll be too, like I'll do Morellia pick of the week, and then I'll pick, like if the jungle, then I'll do jungle carp with US, or the next week I'll do carp or python world or something like that, but I try not to do as many in one shot as I used to, just because I'll go through my feed, and it's like, I'll look at it at my snake's name at this time, you're like, damn it. Yeah. And then the other part of it is it's like, I don't know if people are answering you back. Like, I've found that sometimes like some of that stuff gets lost because I may post it on a group page that I don't necessarily go to every day, and yeah, my thing is that when you go into Facebook and you've been tagged as a snake and other people's things, and also you go through pictures of yourself, and it's like for 48 pictures, oh no, I'm just various snakes, okay, whatever, so different thing. I don't know if I want to tell my... What do you mean, Sammy does this? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I want to... Well, this is my approach. This is what I do. Good. No. I post the picture first to... The first day I post the picture, I post it to my Facebook page. So I feel that if you are interested in what I got going on, and you want to follow me, and you want to see, like, if somebody looks at it as, you know, they think that I have nice carpet pythons, then we're even blubbed, whatever, then you want to go and like my page, because that's where you're going to see it first, you know. Right. Then, obviously because our group is Morel, you pick of the week, I'm going to share it there, but I'm going to share it the next day. So there may be people that, you know, that don't like my Facebook page, that may be on pick of the week, and then they're like, "Oh, yeah, you know, cool." And then people that, you know, I noticed that I have people that are on both, and they'll like it again or whatever, and maybe because it's spread out by day, they'll be cool, they'll be cool. Then that night, what I'll do is because in Australia, right now, it's daytime, so those guys are up and about, I usually post it to Carp and Python world, so that they're seeing it, like when I posted to my page and I posted to pick of the week, it was really nighttime for them, so now it's flipped, you know, now they're looking at it on the daytime. So really I've kind of limited it to like those three groups then, maybe like for instance if I would post to, you know, a short tail on my page, I might go over to, I think the first page that I would post that to would be Morelli, et cetera, because it kind of gets those people that may be into Morelli, but are sort of like into another group, and they may, "Oh, check this out, he's got these cool blood pythons, I wonder what else he's got going on." You know, that-- >> What kind of thing that Eric came up to? >> Right, I mean that's kind of been my approach, the problem with that is that the thing that I should update the most gets left behind as my website, that's really where, you know, I would want them to go, I don't know, it's just difficult, you know, Facebook's so easy. I do really try to, I was putting it on MP, and then I kind of gave up, but I feel that, I guess, I don't know, it's just sad when you're talking to people, you know, and they say, "Oh, wow, that ship is sailed," you know, battle, "I can't fight anymore." And I know we kind of talked about it, but I don't know how to get them there, if people won't post there, you're not going to get in there. >> Yeah. >> Now, do you think-- do you think it's the use of Facebook and because there's groups dedicated to this and you can get things much faster if that's why people don't do it? Because I see it as, you know, I'm being lazy and I can just upload this picture to Facebook, throw some words up and then hope for the best, but somebody responds to it, but when I actually watch the conversation with somebody, I don't normally do it on Facebook because then you have people waiting in that really have no idea what they're talking about. >> Yeah, I find that that's one of the things that I miss that I think you're absolutely right. That's the one thing that I miss most about, you know, the forum is the fact of the conversation that would go on. It seems to me that Facebook has just come about snake pictures. That's what it's about. >> Right. >> Yeah. There's no deep conversations going on. There's no, like, you see it, you see it every once in a while and then you've got somebody that'll come in and shit on the parade and everything goes to shit, you know, and it's like, really, what the hell did this turn into? You know, I don't know, man, I wish, I really wish that I think that it's just, I think you're right. It's just the ease of Facebook, if they can figure out a way to make that, I mean, they do with that app, tap a talk or whatever it is. >> Yeah, but you're already on Facebook, you know, updating your status, doing your own shit and you've got to click and also you're over on the earlier page. I mean, it's just the way it goes, is, you know, the, it's the popularity of Facebook now and that's where you're going, so it sucks. >> Now, if Facebook threaded more like a forum, that would be an easier transition. But I don't see them doing that in time soon, it's just another point that it would be like more of like a threaded conversation, but it's not. >> Yeah, I don't know how they would do that. But I'm sure, I don't know, I'm sure it's about, I don't know, and I think maybe it has to do with just the fact that the reptile community is just, you know, that's all they care about. It's just, here's a cool picture of a snake and that's really what it's going down to. I mean, you know, it's like the more thing, it's the paint job, but it's not really what makes the snake tick, so to speak. >> I got tags on pictures like five times today and it's like, I'm like, other people are like, you know, I mean, I understand people thought they were cool, but it's like, it's there's, I almost see way more excitement over the latest morph of something or other. But it is what it is, you kind of can't fight it. And I do see very much a look at me portion of the reptile community. Like you post up your, you know, you post up your caramel jag. Next thing you know, three things down is somebody else saying, if that's cool, look at mine. It's like, okay, well, you know, all right, it's like, we can do that, but I don't know why you didn't just start your own, I got to jump in on this, whatever. >> Yeah, it's like, it's one of those things. >> Yeah, your full of mine is better, I guess. >> Yeah, I know. And that's the, that's always, that's always the tone, even if that tone isn't what they were going with. It's always the tone I read, that thing of like, oh, cool, look at mine. It's like, it's always the tone I read it with, is the, that looks good, mine looks better. It's like, well, thank you. I have vlogged you for your pretty looking caramel jag. >> So it's more, it's usually worded like, oh, yeah, yours is pretty nice. >> Yeah. >> Like check out mine. >> Yeah. >> And it's like, I need that. >> I wouldn't be able to do that. >> I wasn't asking you. >> Yeah, I would not be able to do that. >> Yeah, and then, and then you wonder if sometimes you don't put, like, if, I, for instance, I'll talk about like, if, if somebody post up a melanistic IJ, you know, it's like, it's one of those things that are rare to find, and you're wondering, is this from the same clutch? Is this, you know, so it's like, do I post up a picture, or do I not post up a picture? I usually wait until somebody will say, Eric, don't you have poison, like, they'll, they'll tag me in it and say, you know, don't you have a melanistic IJ, they kind of look similar, that kind of thing. So it's kind of like. >> Oh, yeah. >> Is, are those conversations being missed out on, because people aren't doing that at the same, at the same day? >> Right. >> I guess, I guess, ultimately, at the end of the day, if there was a need, like, if people wanted the, the, the forum thing, then somehow, some way, they would invent something, you know, some kind of app that would make it to do, I just, that, that sense of community is kind of, it's, I don't want to say it's lost, it's just different, you know. >> Blacking right now. >> Yeah, it's just different, it's just a different vibe, and I don't, I don't know. >> Yeah. >> You know. >> Don't. >> Go ahead. >> I mean, don't worry. My Moralea's Secret Police will bring us all back together, it'll be fine. >> [LAUGH] >> It'll be okay. >> Yeah. Moralea's Secret Police. Nice. >> Yeah, it's a secret. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's a secret. >> Yeah. >> Now, do you think it's like Jason Bailin, or you guys, or anybody else that people could relate a name with, if you're like, oh, yeah, I'm using the forum now, and started doing that, do you think it would actually attract more people? >> We did. I mean, we tried. >> You'd have to have everybody on that same page. I think if you did that, yeah, you would. You know, it's just like, it's just like your Facebook page, right? You know, when I first started by E.B. Moralea Facebook page, I had, like, maybe 100 likes. And when you do that, you're kind of like looking like, how will I ever be able to page? It's just like, it seems like this thing that you'll never do. So what I ended up doing is I would never post to my page. I would post straight to the pick of the week, because probably if I'm being honest, it's like, oh, yeah, I'm really excited about this snake, and I want to show people, and I want to see their reaction to what I'm putting up. You know, I'd get a quicker return on that if I put it on pick of the week, rather than if I put it on my Facebook page. But what happened is, is that I never grew that, because I didn't make that person have to go there. You know, I just put it here. So what I started doing is, just like I said, I post it to my Facebook page before I post it anywhere else. I post it to my Facebook page, my Twitter, and my Instagram, and that's where it stops. If it's something that I'm super excited about, maybe I'll break my rule and I'll post it up to the pick of the week later, that night or whatever, but for the most part, I've been trying to stick to that rule where I stick to those three. And what I've seen is, is that now I'm almost at 2,000 likes, and it's not one of those, you know, every day I wake up and, yeah, it's not like, you know, fake, like you paid for the likes or whatever, it's actually legitimate people that are into for whatever reason or are digging my snakes. Some people dig the pictures, some people dig, you know, whatever, just for whatever reason they're drawn to it, and, you know, I think that's, if that was the case, then people would have to go there if they wanted to know it. But to get everybody to agree to that is, man, I've been trying to do that for like three years, and it just, you know, you got young people, they're just like, dude, that's dead. It's like, dude, that's like tape deck, you know what I mean, like, we're so close that. I'm pretty sure half the people who are active on the pick of the week, you know, on Facebook don't even have MP.com screen names or handles, I'm pretty sure they haven't even done that. Yeah, but technology advances, and it's the same way talking about buddy Andrew with his monitor guys, their big monitor forms are pretty much empty now, and they have to keep starting Facebook pages to try to get everybody all in one spot to separate the people who are keeping, you know, Salvadorian, giant, naturalistic pages as opposed to crackheads who keep them in like, you know, 20 gallon tanks, and you don't want to be keeping them proc monitor in the 20 gallon tanks, but that's beside the point. So it's just one of those things where obviously this is where we're at now, unfortunately, which is a shame because there was a lot of information on MP, and a lot of the stuff that was the history of where we're at with Morelia, I mean, there was a whole thread that was a sticky of the breeders figuring out what the hell was wrong with Jags, and it was really interesting to read back, especially from where we're at now, and what we view with Jags, and things that we had guys throw in entire clutches and freezers because they came out wobbly, and things like that. So, and of course, we had the majority of people believe breeding Jags, the Jags was eventually going to yield the living loses. So, some people still believe that people believe Jags, so I'm going to do it. It's going to be going to be Imbracata Jags, if you take an Imbracata and breed it to a Jags, and then you take the new Imbracata Jags and breed them together, that's when you get the living of your sister. You know, the funny thing is, is that out of all the, out of all the, out of all the Facebook groups that I belong to, the one with the, that, that has absolutely, I'm probably going to jinx it now, the one that has absolutely no drama on it, and it's just, just guys geeking out about their snakes is the Morelia Imbracata page. That's the one group where it's just like, and you know what, there's no morphs on that. So, it's just, it's like, so like they'll be breeding their, their snakes and like, you know, like, hey, check out this, and check out that, and you know, they're just really excited about keeping Imbracata. And you know, I don't know, man, they do, I don't know how they keep that, is it just a numbers game? Is it the fact that, you know, the rare, I mean, how many bowling Jags do we see out there? What? I mean, it's the rarity of it. It's like, I imagine as different animals become more readily available, we'll start getting them into the whole drama and the craziness, because they'll be involved. Like, eventually, I know several people who already have on the docket that they want to cross a rough scale with a creature. That's coming in the next couple years. No idea what the hell it's going to look like, but, and that's going to start getting these things sucked into more drama, more issues. Imbracata isn't that readily available. As Imbracata becomes more readily available, of course, it's going to meet drama. That's how it works. So, yeah, I guess, I don't know, I'm going to read the first Imbracata Jag, and then you're going to like show up at my house and punch me in the face. So, you know, no, I wouldn't. I mean, I don't know, like, you know, how I feel about that. I know, I know. But, you know, I don't know, it just seems funny that the, who was I talking to the other day, and they were saying that, you know, what's going to be worth money is just a normal ball python. I forget you were talking to you, but I think it was a part of this conversation. Yeah, it was like, I can't remember who it was like, what the show? It was just going back and forth, and it was like, ah, you know, it's going to be worth money one day. It's just normal ball python, because every day you have mixed two of this and mixed that, and you're going to want different blood. Makes sense to an extent, but not going to be pretty worthless until they stop importing them from Africa. So, you know, that kind of shot that down, but it's, you know, some merit to that a little bit. Yeah, everything's going to have a head miss or that or whatever, but I don't know. Right. So, yeah, so we hit a, I don't know, we hit a lot of topics there, you know, mostly about the perspective of the, of coming into this and, you know, your approach to learning about karpa pythons and whatnot. Is there anything else that you would, that you would, you know, care to share on the topic, or do you think that we covered it pretty, pretty good? No, I think, I mean, to put a template, just read up on what it is that you want to be a part of in the first place. And don't tread water thinking you're going to be the next great thing when there's been many great before you. Like, do you see what haven't gotten the things that they did before? Because you have something new and shiny, you're automatically going to be the cool kid on the blog space. I mean, it's just not how it works. Yeah. Yeah, you might have that, but people might are not going to necessarily buy that from you, you know? Yeah. I mean, well, you have to be cool. Everybody could like it, but that doesn't mean they're going to buy anything from you. Yeah. Also, there's the thing of like, look at this cool jungle that I've produced from buying Jason Bailin animals. It's like, okay, you know, then you're like, why is Jason keeps selling everything? It's like, well, dude, it's a set thing, you know, yeah. So. What was I going to throw? Yeah, dropping thing is what bothers you the most. If like, if some people, I will sit there and I'll literally start counting every time they drop a name. And if I get it's like 20, I've stopped listening to you. I mean, it's just like I'm done. If the way you introduce your snake to me is you go, you remember my, you know, Eric Burke wine, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, okay, every time the word, like, I know it's your zebra. I know you're talking about your zebra. Well, I think you say it every time it's my Eric Burke zebra. Yes, I know it's your zebra. I know what people you are talking about. Eric Burke is not its name. So. So you don't feel that that that should ever like say you have a line of specific animal. I'll use dinosaur. No, I'm not saying it's not important. The thing is not important or not to use it, but don't overuse it. Yeah, when you're saying it 30 times in one conversation, I get, I get what you're talking about, you don't have to. You're talking about your name. I got you. Same. It's good looking jungle. I got it. It's, you know, it's just something like that. You know, you know, a thing, something that bothers, well, I shouldn't say it bothers me, but I just wish people were more insightful is that when you have somebody that just breeds the same thing as what somebody else is breeding. Like, for instance, if you, you know, you just brought up, you know, Jason Bell and let's take tigers, right? So the idea, I think, is to kind of take what he did and kind of, you know, take it to another level that maybe Jason wouldn't necessarily do, you know, or have different animals that aren't in Jason's collection and add your own little twist, right? Yes. You know, I mean, maybe, you know, obviously if you buy a pair of animals from him and breed it, you're just extending on his work because he produced both those animals. But if you buy one from him and then you go and maybe buy a tiger from Carrie or buy a tiger from, you know, me after I've mixed it with my Ted Thompson stuff or Eric or, you know, some other various places, even by somebody just took a tiger and bred it to a stripe and got really cool striped tigers. I mean, that's when you're going to start having animals that are a little bit more flare or a little bit more pop and they look different than Jason's stuff. You have Jason lying tigers, but they're not just repetitive of what is being produced over there. You know, do take it to the next step. Make it your own. Don't just repeat. What I've done is like if you look at in my collection is that I feel that there's certain things that that should remain, you should have the ability to keep that line going, right? So if, you know, Derek brought this up with his new guineas, you know, it's like one of those things he hasn't really crossed it out to anything simply because he doesn't want the line to disappear because once it's gone, it's gone. You know, I mean, there's lines of jungles that that are for all intents and purposes, they're going, you know, they just been absorbed into what the jungle carpet pythons are, you know, it's like, okay, well, now it's just this is what we got, you know, it's not like you can get Larry Black jungles or, you know, really isn't that what VPI jungles are. I mean, we've, when we had Nick, when he was, he was talking about it, it's just like VPI went and basically they gathered up all their jungles and read them, you know, all these different jungles and read them and sort of, it's not, it's not like a bloodline. It's just like a whole bunch of different lines where they've sort of now made their own, you know, this is, this is our direction for jungles, so to speak. But if, you know, when's the last time that you've seen, so I think I can think of Eric Kohler as probably the only one that I've seen talk about Venn and better jungles, you know, me and him are probably, and probably Nick are probably the only ones that have animals from the lineage that I know that, that are out there in the, you know, carpet python world, and there might be people that don't even go on Facebook, that have had that, or maybe they haven't, they don't even know it, but, you know, even tell us my son. Oh, he has some too? Well, there you go. Yeah. Yeah. The Sylvester Kosals. That's a perfect example. You know, that line is gone. That, I had the last male, Nick had the last female, both of which have gone. So that line is, is, is going. There's animals like, I think Zach's probably the only one that's working with that. Well, Nick too, he has crosses, but, you know, that's it. And, and if, if people would have cared or, or, you know, would have gotten a pair of this or a pair of that and kept that line going, maybe they would still be here today, but, you know, I don't know. So I kind of mixed feelings on that, but at the same time, I think you should have sort of your own direction. You want to stand out. You don't want to be next to the guy that you buy stuff for, like, I wouldn't want to be next to Paul, show. Right. Well, why, why, you know, by for you, you got everything he has. Yeah. It was, these were some of the issues I had when I first started when I showed up at a show with like nothing but little gray baby carpet pythons. And it's like, buy my tigers over Jason Bailins. And it was like, dear Lord, no, or buy my jags over Jason Bailins. It's like, it took so long and where I did well was, you, you outcrossed, you took animals, you got from different people and you bred them across the boards and you mixed this with that. You really went for this and that and it was awesome. So, it was great. Love it. So, okay, along the lines of having snakes from certain breeders, like a reputable breeder, what about snakes that you know nothing about? Or you breed it with, you know, you got this from so and so and you bred it to an unknown, let's say a coastal and you bred it to an unknown coastal. You've made your own thing. Now, do you think that takes away from people buying it from you? Because you have this one, because in the community, a lot of it is due to, you know, the lineage of that animal. And you happen to know nothing about one of the parents. Do you think that takes away from people buying it from you? Or does it take away from your own mind? I think that there's certain people that won't and then there's other people that won't, not because I think that if you took that person that didn't out of the equation, like, I think they listened to that person. Am I saying this right? So, let's say I don't know. There's been conversations where me and Nick have said things and he's like, "Oh, man, that's bullshit." You know, and I'll be like, "I don't care. I like it." You know, and he's like, "Yeah, I know. It's a cool looking snake, but there's nothing that I could do." Because we're from two different schools, you know, he's from this pool of keeping the end. I'm with that too, but then there's other ones that I just think are cool. You know, I just think are cool looking snakes. I think as long as you honestly represent them, I don't know. If you say that they love you. I mean, and then it's everybody can judge themselves. I mean, if you were breeding a carb python, it's, if you have an unknown coastal, but it's like nine feet. I mean, it's pretty sure it's certain coastal or it could be anything really, but it's like, as long as you were honest about, "Hey, it's a carb python. The mother is unfurkin-known. If you think it's cool, if you want to go with it, go." But the worry that I would be is if someone goes, "Yeah, it's coastal," and then runs off and tells you that you sold them a pure coastal, but you can't control that. But yeah, I don't see any problem with it. And like I said, certain people who are purists, like to the 10th degree, are not going to go for you. Other people will. I think it's the, I think it's on how you market that animal. That's one thing that I have noticed. It's like you're trying to sell an animal and you marketed a certain way almost to the point to where you're misrepresenting what you're selling. I have a problem. Yeah, I do too. I think that that's just, I don't know, I guess I see through that. You know, it's, if you had an animal like that, that was unknown that you thought was a coastal, but you weren't 100% sure. And then you go and you say, "I have 100% pure coastal blah, blah, blah." You know, new line of coastal or new morph of coast. And you're not 100% sure. Well, you can't really say that. I mean, yeah. Yeah. And I think that the typical Facebook response to the person that wants to sell that snake is, well, you can't prove that your snakes are pure. You know, did you pick it up out of the wild? And it's like, no, I didn't. But this lineage has remained to what we would call coastal's in the, you know, reptile hobby. This is what we call coastal carpet pythons. Are they what you would find in the way? You know what I mean? Like, and now we brought that up because I had seen a post a couple of days ago where there was somebody that got, they were new to carpet pythons and they were asking breeders, "I've got these two coastal's don't know really what they are going to breed them together. What do you guys think?" It's like, well, well, the general consensus was, we think that's dumb. But somebody that's new, I mean, they don't understand that there's a big deal with lineage and stuff like that. And it's like, you don't want to come across calling them stupid or telling them that. But I mean, at the same time, they literally just bought you snakes. I was like, I'm going to become the next big breeder. I really think together. And here we go. Yeah, I think, I think, I think the problem with that is in that statement in itself. I want to become the next big bre-, like, to me, when you have that mindset, you sort of lose the whole mentality of why you're keeping snakes in a box to begin with. I mean, you're trying, at least for me, I'm trying to carve out a little piece of nature and I'm okay with admitting that it's somewhat selfish. You can go back and forth and argue whether the snake has a better life or nature can be a bitch. You can go back and forth and you can argue that all day. But I'm okay with saying that I enjoy this. I think that, I think keeping snakes in a box is probably in a way, I think the outcome, the end result is probably better for everyone because I think when you start to, I can just say for myself, like, I never would have looked at Australia the way I look at Australia if it wasn't for my passion for carpet pythons. Because I just have, like, to me that's like, I don't know, I want to learn everything there is about Australia, anything that I can so be in. Yeah, you know, it's just like to me, you know, you start learning about other animals simply because maybe they'll give you some kind of cue into their environment or, you know, I don't know, it's just anything you can learn. So I think that ultimately doing that gets people more aware about, you know, the environment and stuff like that. It's kind of the idea, I guess. I don't know. We're just monkeys keeping snakes in boxes. Yeah, yeah. Oh, but I don't know. What do you guys think? Um, I would admit that I've probably looked at Australia never the same since Irwin. I mean, watching him in high school, college, things like that. And that's when I started getting into the pythons and, you know, I watched that video of him messing with carpet pythons, a few signs and all that fun stuff. I mean, that's what brought it to it. And of course, you always, Australia was someplace that I was like, oh man, I really want to go there. You know, everybody says they want to go certain places around the world, whether they mean it or not. Since I started keeping snakes, Australia has been one of those, I will go there before I die. Probably numerous times or, you know, my life will not be fulfilled kind of stuff. Like, it'll have, it has to happen. So I'll definitely agree to that. When it comes down to it, I'm doing this for me. And I'll do whatever I want with my collection. And I'll be whatever I want in my collection. And it's all for my fun and my enjoyment and my relief. And at this point, it is definitely very big part of who I am. And I'm not compromising that for nobody. So yeah. What was the thing you keep saying that do you boo boo? It's right. You do you boo. You do you boo. How about you, Terrell? What do you think? I would say it's pretty much the same thing. Like, I got into makes not to become a breeder or and I have certain snakes because I like them. I mean, did something that brings me enjoyment watching them and then learning about them. And like, I'll show them the same thing as a kid. I wanted to go there because I want, I actually wanted to hang out with kangaroos all day. That was my thing. But as I got to make, I want to see what I'm still passionate about in this natural environment. You know, without my interference. Kangaroos are awesome. I would make that. And it's one thing to see them in a plastic tub versus, you know, out in the open and stuff, like, oh, it became more of I will go see this. I will make it happen eventually. I don't know when, but I'm going to do it. And I guess that's what drives me to continue to do it. Because this isn't a money game for me. I don't, I'm not really planning to sell a bunch of snakes. Like, I'm not even sure if I don't sell any of them, depending on what they look like when they come out, how I feel about it. So it's, I guess it comes down to, I'm just going to do what I feel like doing. And then the rest will work itself out when it does. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I don't know, it's, I said this, I forget what I was talking to a couple of weeks ago, but if I was doing this for the money, man, I'm screwed. Because I just keep spending money, not spending money on more snakes. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, no, the amount that I put into it, I never probably will ever see that in return. Because I keep buying new things. And, you know, when I sell eggs that go towards food or whatever else, the birds provide for the ones that I have. So it's not, I'm not really gaining anything, just more of a appreciation for what I have, I guess. Yeah. Right. Yeah. You know, I just want to get to a point where one day I'm working with animals that I produced. Of course. Yeah. My collection is made up of animals that I produced. That is the fun part. And of course, I, and of course, you're never going to get away from having to buy animals, but it's like having the majority of the animals here that you're working with are ones that you've made. And then you bring in blood. Yeah. That should be the goal for anybody that does it. It is, I mean, it started as you wanted something because you were proud to have it. You liked looking at it and stuff like that. So if you're a breeder, why not breathe for stuff that you want to see every day when you look at your collection? Like, man, you know, I made that happen. Yeah. Not this snake produced this snake. So I'm a syllabus for however much money and then I'm going to go to the heat. This is, I mean, honestly, I have a few of my generations are now coming of age. And then I have the next generations coming of age. And it's like, it is really cool to have an animal that is breeding for you that you produce from animals you raise as babies. And I'm desperate to have that, you know, for across the board. Like, I want to have, you know, eventually your breeders are going to get old and they are going to either stop being useful. They are going to die. And you should know that you've got to have their kids be ready to take their place. So it's eventually you will, if you're a smart breeder, you will have nothing but animals you produce. And it's an awesome feeling. Yeah, I hope at one point that I'm able to have a closed collection. I hope at one point that, you know, I would say that I have everything in my collection that I would want. I'm content with what I have. I don't know when that would be, but, you know, I would think that with the exception of some short tails and then, you know, there's always those things that you sort of like, you know, go back and forth with, you know, I want to keep that. I don't want to keep, well, I don't really have the room, you know, it's like, you know, I don't know. So you kind of, you know, I sit on the fence with Boas a lot. I see, like, you know, those Boas that Matt had, they're freaking amazing, you know, even your Dominican Red Boas, you know, they're awesome. I'd really love to have them, you know. I will send you a pair. No. At the end of the day, it's kind of like, you know, do I? Do I really want that? Do I, or do I want to keep going with what I'm going? You know, I don't know. Yeah. So it's kind of one of those things. We will probably be getting cut off pretty soon. So before we do, I want to make sure that we get the info for the Southwest Carpetfest out there. And yep. Because you have some T-shirts, a booster up, and a pretty awesome design, I must say. I dig it. So yeah, I'm actually really excited about that. It turned out better. Well, I mean, I had a vision in mind of what I wanted it to be, and then I asked Tony of Revision Ripo what he thought, and then he came back with exactly what I was thinking. I was like, yeah, boom, there it is. You don't have to think about it anymore. All right. Yeah, it's really cool. I like it. So tell us about, I mean, I know you've been on before and you told us about it, but go over the, you know, what you want people to know to do things again. Okay, um, 2019. I'm starting around five o'clock. I don't really have any time, but I figured there are places to hang out and then whatever. But it's going to be a pretty short site. We're going to hang out there for a few hours. I'm trying to work out, but I'm going to leave how we're going to do the pop-up or where we're going to do a bunch of restaurants in here, like, right, digesting to the restaurants. I don't know if everybody wants to do the hands there. There's like a stone-fired grill and stuff like that. So, I'll probably have to apologize, but if what everybody wants to do for that. But um, while we're there, Jay is going to give a tour of the facility, but you can play with some of the things we're done talking and hanging out for whoever wants to see them. So, it'll probably be eggs. It's being asked because it is everything about a mess. So, you can just get that out as well. Um, and then there was talks of, because there's a lot of people that are coming from hours away, we might do something on Saturday as well. People that I want it to day longer, because I'm not doing anything that we can. So, we can figure out something to do on the remaining days as well. It'll just be a relaxed kind of thing to hang out, meet people that you've been talking to in mind. Very cool. It would kind of treat this as a trial run to see how many people are actually engaged in this community around here. There's a lot of people that are positive about it. There's people that are coming from Vegas. For much further away than I thought they'd be coming from. Like, so. Right. That's cool. That's cool. Awesome. And, um, you have the, uh, the booster over, um, I think I put the link. I think the link is up there, but the link's on your site as well, right? That's cool. I'll find it on booster.com. And then all of this is on my Facebook page. Designers got it, uh, it's on our website as well. These guys got that, and I have it posted over the Facebook page and our website. Or if anybody has any questions, they can just, you know, Facebook or anything like that. Okay. Um, I'm going to ask, okay, so that covers that. I'm going to ask two questions and I'll let Owen answer his questions and then we'll wrap it up. Um, okay. What is, do you have any most anticipated clots for this year? Um, it would be my IDJ. Okay. I'm a big fan of IDJ and I think that the pairing that I put together is going to be pretty nice. So I just say that I'm about 30 days away from, or actually, or from them happening. Okay. Particular look you're going for with IDJ jags. What's your, uh, what you're in the mail that I use, the, uh, actual jag installed. He's got a very reduced pattern. So I want to see if that actually carries over to release. But I mean, this is my first run at puzzle five on. So I'm still getting a feel for, you know, I like, I let both be patient. So I'm kind of just working. Cool. Yeah, that is cool. All right. What about, uh, what about, uh, blood python wise? Um, all of, we're still raising up all of the blood, but I think any from our two negative, anything from that. Uh, I'm not sure exactly what direction we're going to go with that. I'm still reading up on them in April does most of that stuff. But I'm excited to see what she does with, uh, the two negatives. I'll post pictures of, of the one that we use for it. He's pretty much our mascot for everything that we do. Is that the one that's on the front of your website page? Yeah. Yeah. Very nice. Very nice work. Owen's a big fan of those. I'm more of a T positive. He's a T. Nag. I'm a T positive guy. It's so weird that whatever Owen likes, I like the opposite. Whatever I like. He likes the opposite. Yeah, I like dumbled. I would make a good show, I guess. Yeah. Um, my, uh, my next question is, do you have anything that, uh, is coming up in the come up next year, uh, that you're excited about? I'm going to try to work, I guess. Okay, very nice. That's pretty much what I'm shooting for next year. I'm trying to keep my, uh, clutches for like a few more reasons that before they started popping out babies, I don't know what to do with them. Right. Cool. Well, I have some interesting, you probably can't put your own, uh, post full jungles, which are hopefully ours. Um, I believe they were spread by Randy, right? And I talked to him and he couldn't, he wasn't 100% sure if he had pulled the parents, like, right before I got him. So, you know, you can't put them in, but they walked all of them yellow and they're more of like a gray showing, gray and white. And I ended up with three of them, two, you know, them now. So, I'm going to play around with that over here next year and the year out there with hot dogs. Cool. Very cool. All right. All right. So, if you could work with, if you could have any species out, limitations of water, space, anything, what would it be? It'd be in Vegas. You crazy bastard. All right. Um, you'll be a good one. All right. Well, why a good one? They are gorgeous. And it kind of remind me of a short tail. So it'd be right up my alley. But a lot more deadly, you know, like, okay. There is that sense of danger. That is true. All right. Um, if you could travel anywhere without limitations, where would you go and why? It would definitely be Australia. And what would you hope to see? Well, I would hope to see and Owen Kelly. No, he just crashed him high. Well, I mean, if it's something that I'm hoping to see you, it would be that. But other than that, just some carpets doing their thing in the wild. There you go. All right. And throughout your contact info for anybody who wants to get in touch with your parents, you can leave me at Designer Xotic on Facebook or Designer Xotic in here. But yeah, if you want to get in touch with me, you can just hit me up on Facebook to send me a message. And I usually respond to every message I get as well. Cool. Well, we appreciate you taking the time with us. And I'm sure you'll, I'm sure you'll, this will not be your last voyage on the Mariah Python airwaves. I'm sure you'll get back again. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it. Absolutely. So thanks again. And I'm sure we will be in touch. Oh, real quick, I have to throw out before we before we do jump off. It's just because of my lack of time with everything. But Terrell is helping us with the Mariah tip of the week. And he has one in the ready to go. And I got to get it posted up. If you go over to MP, I did a little bit of changing around on the website a little bit to make it more, you know, more streamlined, I guess, or a little more user friendly. And that's something that I have to get up. But he did a very good article on, you know, like a blog type thing. First one was on mites. Yeah. So, you know, it's, it's pretty cool. And again, really tip of the week is just, you know, experiences that we or anybody had. And, you know, just to give you some direction, not take to help you through some of the problems that happened. So, there you go. So I appreciate the help with that. And I'll make sure that I got that up, you know, and if Terrell is willing, he will be helping us with that. And you'll see more of that. Uh, in the future. So be more, more than happy help. Awesome. Appreciate it. So, all right, Terrell, thank you. And have a good one. You too. All right. Cool. That was a nice conversation. I, uh, I, I like talking about those kinds of things, the market, stuff like that. How you approach the business side of it and the ethics that come along, I guess, with, uh, with, with that. So, uh, cool stuff. Um, well, let's, uh, let's give our shout outs and let's get out of here. Um, so like I said, Moraley Python radio.com has gotten a little bit of a facelift. So go over and check it out. Sort of the same type of stuff, but, uh, condense some stuff down. And still it's a work in progress. So, uh, you know, be sure to, uh, to check that out. Uh, like I said earlier, I kind of look at it as, if you're getting into carpet pythons or Moralea, that kind of will point you in the direction that you need to go, whether it be, uh, you know, what forms to visit, uh, what breeders, you know, breed what, um, what morphs are out there, what, what is the, the carpet python complex, what's the subspecies, etc, etc. So, uh, you know, what different books are written on them, uh, anything you could possibly imagine that's going to your, your go to spot. Um, so yeah, if you want to get in contact with us, uh, for any questions or comments, you can send it to info@moraleopythonradio.com. You can follow us on Twitter @moraleopython and you can also follow us, uh, by giving our Facebook page a like, that is it for that. Uh, I don't have confirmation on the guest yet for next week. I got a couple things lined up should be, uh, some of the things that people have been asking for. So, uh, hopefully I'll get that sealed away and get that up ASAP. Um, let's see, carpet fest. Come here to student. There's a couple weeks away. Our good, uh, good friend here, Owen has, uh, opened up his doors to let us come and, uh, party with him and geek out and talk snakes. Um, so, it is May 30th in Birdsboro, PA. We are accepting, uh, the donations, um, for the auction. Um, this is going to go to, uh, the legal defense fund. Um, yep. So, and we, we already raised $200 for the booster t-shirt sales. Um, also, if you were part of the second order of the booster sales, the t-shirts have not been made yet because the booster is not closed. It'll be closed on the 18th. And unfortunately, we are one shirt away from them reaching that minimum order. So, if you're out there and you were waiting on a shirt, um, you better go get it now because, uh, we're probably going to fill the minimum order and then that's it. We're done. I'm not opening it again. So, um, um, go grab it. It's 20 bucks. It all goes back to a good cause. So, we didn't raise really any money for the second printing. That was really just so people could get the t-shirt. Um, again, go get it. Uh, and we already have the $200 which will be on top of what we raised as part of the auction. Anything can be in the auction. So, don't worry about donating. It'd be great either way. Yeah. And, uh, shame on me, but going forward, you're going to hear us talking about supporting U.S. arc as a part of our closing, uh, monologue. So, please go over and, uh, get, show your support, whether it's a dollar or whether you buy something from, uh, reptile basics and you, you put a dollar in the coat, whatever it is, uh, you're doing your reptiles and put the dollar in there. And I'm checking to break it to everybody. When you buy from Rogue, when I quote out your shipping, it is to include a dollar. It goes to U.S. arc. Sorry. Well, when I'm going to do this year, I'm not going to tell you I'm doing that. What I'm going to do this year is, is that, um, for every snake I sell, I'm going to donate 10% of that, uh, to U.S. arc. So, there you go. Anything I sell, 10% will go to U.S. arc. So, if you're going to buy a snake from me, uh, and you buy a thousand dollar snake, 100 bucks is going to go to U.S. arc. Um, so that's just my way of giving back to those guys that, uh, have thought for us to do what we do. Um, I don't think that anything is more important than that. So, um, you know, that's, that's what I believe. So, um, yeah, Carpafest.homestead.com. You can, every, all the Carpafest that are up there over there, uh, or, uh, all the Carpafest that are over there are up. So, you'll be able to see the Northeast, the Northwest, the Southeast, the Southwest, all over there, all the information you need. Um, and the donations, uh, for the auction will be going up, uh, as soon as, uh, as soon as we get them all squared away. So, hopefully, we can do that by the end of this week. Make sure that you contact it in me or Owen, uh, whether it be, uh, through email info@meraypythonradio.com or on Facebook, whichever you choose. One way or the other, just make sure we know, uh, what you're doing. And if you are donating something, um, you know, we're going to need a picture of it and we're going to need some kind of description of it. Um, I really would prefer if you are not in the area, not to make it a live animal, because then we got to deal with all the shipping and whatnot. Um, I mean, if you're in the area, that's going to be the thing anyway, because the animals aren't coming here, right? No. Well, what I'm saying is is that you have, you know, you have somebody like Matt or Buddy that, that do have live animals, more than likely if you can travel to birdsboro. Yeah, you can travel to. Yeah, yeah. Or you can travel to Maryland, you know. Yeah, but you know, if you do, um, if you do have something else, like say you have a thermostat or something like that, feel free. You can ship it to my house. Uh, hopefully get there in time where you send us pictures and once someone wins, you can ship it to their place. It's all good. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, so yeah, that's the details on that. Um, I'm trying to think is there anything else. Carpetfest is also on Facebook, uh, and Facebook page and all of us, all the different chapters, if you will, uh, post to that. So, um, you know, look for updates as far as that goes. Um, we do have a Northeast Carpetfest group. Um, if you want to go over there because you're coming, I'm probably going to try to get a head count, uh, so that we kind of know what we're dealing with and we can. Yeah, get numbers together. Um, yeah. So that's that. And then also, did I say on Twitter, on Twitter and on Facebook. And as far as me, uh, ebmeralia.com. You want to get in contact with me, eric@ebmeralia.com. Uh, I am waiting. I am days away. If, if, if maybe they're had, they're picked out tonight. I don't know. I haven't been in the incubator to check out, but I have, uh, hopefully some caramel albinos. You haven't, you have caramel albinos. I mean, you haven't looked like, are you sitting in your armchair swirling your brandy right now? Go look at me. Well, they're not due until tomorrow, but, oh, you get technically we're 10 minutes away. I don't know if snakes are like, you know, oh, it's time to be back. You and I both know they come when they're ready. I mean, that there's no. Day 55. Yep. And done. So, yeah. So, uh, I have some, I have eggs that might be catching egg carp with this. I have also eggs that might be being laid at carpets. So it's like, everyone's gonna see them. Yeah. I'm still waiting for my last clutch. Um, that's from, uh, super caramel zebra jagged and soup to caramel zebra. That'll be the last clutch of the year. Um, so, and then everything pretty much outches out in June. I have two clutches that are gonna be hatching out in May and then, uh, one actually right before I go to carpets. So probably will be that weekend. And, of course, you'll be away. That's how it works. Yeah. Yeah. And they're the, uh, super caramel zebra jagged to citrus tiger. So I'm curious to see how hundreds out. So, yeah. So, yeah, for me, uh, I'm on, uh, Facebook. I have a Facebook page, E.B. Moralia. I have a Twitter, E.B. Moralia. And I also have an Instagram. You can get any of, uh, follow me on any of those. That's pretty much all the same. Um, check out the website, ebmorai.com. I did start, um, I did start another little thing, another little page that, that I was gonna, um, inject some stuff into it. It's called carpet python morphs. Um, basically, I'm just picking a morph a week, posting up a picture, telling you what's in it, telling you what the genetics are. So if you want to go check that out, by all means, you can follow that on Facebook or Twitter, carpet python morphs. Um, I didn't really promote it too much on Facebook yet, because I kind of wanted to get some info there. It's nothing crazy. It's just something to sort of highlight those new morphs for some of the new people, um, that want to, uh, to check it out. I'm trying to keep it to where it's just people that I know if I don't have that particular uh, morph. So, um, there's that. And that's all that I have. Cool. Uh, well, I guys, you can go to rogue-reptiles.com. It's not really out, up to date, but we're working on it. Also, you can go to rogue's Facebook page at rogue-reptiles-on-facebook.com. Uh, current shows, I don't think we're gonna have a table for the June show at Hamburg. Uh, do the issues that we had with the last Hamburg show, we do not have a table. So, um, I need to get a table, but hopefully we'll be back on track and we'll see everybody there in August. Um, of course, I will still be in attendance, so I can bring things if you want. Uh, other than that, reminder that Car Profess is at 136 Hopewell Street in Birdsboro, Pennsylvania. Um, if you need directions or hotel stuff, drop me a line, Facebook, whatever, it is an open thing. Anybody can come to Car Profess at a few people asking if it was invite only. It is not anybody can come, so please come have some fun. Uh, I gotta start buying alcohol. Oh, fuck, um, I'll get on that. Um, other than that, if you have something you wish to donate to the auction, please, please, please get in touch with myself or Eric, and we'll get it on there. Uh, other than that, thanks everybody for listening and we're gonna catch you all next week for some more Moralia Python radio tonight. Hey, Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL, or as a reptile breeder and the owner of Proxox. I've been hirping since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breathing and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Markland and I create the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site, bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of the latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news, photos and links so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. The reptile report offers powerful brandy and marketing exposure for your business and the best part is it's free. If you're a buyer or breeder, you gotta check out the reptile report marketplace. 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