Morelia Python Radio

Derek Roddy is back

In this episode we welcome back Derek Roddy to the show. Derek is known for his awesome Black headed pythons. He has the nicest collection of BHP's in the US. We will also discuss some of his side projects like his Dumerils and Rainbow boas and his thoughts on the current reptile hobby. http://www.derekroddysblackheadedpythons.com/

Duration:: 2h 29m
Broadcast on:: 06 May 2015
Audio Format:: other

Hey Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL or as a reptile breeder in the owner of Proxox. I've been hurtin since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breathing and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Marklin and I create the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site bringing you the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptile report.com every day to stay on top of the latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news, photos and links so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. The reptile report offers powerful brandy and marketing exposure for your business and the best part is it's free. 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Shipyreptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use shipyreptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates and materials needed to ship the reptile successfully live customer support in our live, on time, arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptile report.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace. Find that perfect pet or breeder. Then visit shipreptiles.com to ship that animal anywhere in the United States. We are your one stop shop for everything reptile related. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Good evening everybody. Welcome to Morelio Python radio. Tonight we are joined by Mr. Derek Roddy's back. We're going to be talking about blackheads, Dumels boas, rainbow boas, reptile hobby. Who knows? That's always a good conversation when we have Derek on. So looking forward to that. We'll get him on in a couple minutes. How are you this week? This weekend we're doing well. That's three-way shed. I mean I got three females that shed, which just goes to show that I have no idea what's going on over here. So normal. I'm hoping that we get some eggs on the ground too, but it's funny because you start tallying up when they're going to be due. And it's like, well this one's due to be able for a carpet best. Crap. This one's due on carpet best. Crap. This one's due to the day after carpet. So we may be seeing eggs dropping during carpet best. It'd be interesting if they'll see that one. So yeah, or I might be able to piss off mothers when I'm hung over. So yeah, it'll be fine. Good times for sure. Good times. Yeah, nothing new over here. Just waiting on one last email to lay the last clutch of the year. Are you getting close with your hat safe? Are you getting close with your hat safe? Next week? No. Next week? Okay. All right. Yeah, next week is the first clutch. I think it's an albino to a caramel head albino. Yeah, yeah. It should be cool. It should be, you know, to repeat pairing from last year. But, you know, I don't know, looking forward to see what pops out of that. I'm actually, I'm kind of more excited about my coastal pairing. That's my M Penn Coastal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, with me, I don't know, I look at carpet with puns. I mean, whether it's a normal or a morph to me, I'm just, I'm just enamored with the whole complex, you know, I love everything about them. But, I don't know. Every once in a while, you're just going to look at it. Yeah. Yeah, there's that lavender and that stripe and man, that's just nice. So I'm looking forward to seeing, I mean, the two, the pair that I have is actually just unbelievable. So I can't imagine it getting any better. You know, so try. Yeah. Well, you know, I was saying that I was telling you today, you men, Zach, that apparently I have GQ IJs coming to me. And that's pretty exciting because, no, no, no, no, no, see, you have to do it. You have to phrase the way it's happened. Apparently I bought these and I forgot about it. Wait a minute. Like, how does this happen? Like, how do you forget? And then I remember who I'm talking to. And I'm like, of course. Well, that way. Well, you got, I mean, I think, well, I picked them up from Chris that Chris at Mystic. Is it Mystic Reptiles? Yeah, Mystic Reptiles. No, he's Mystic Reptiles. Yeah. Yeah. I was getting them confused. But Chris has been on the show a couple of times. He's down there in Florida. He does a lot of retics and stuff. Well, actually, I think he exports and you can export out of Florida. So I think that's okay for him. But anyway, he had this pair when we were at ICAS, he had some GQ hijays. Two years ago. Yeah. Yeah. I've been waiting for that. And Zach, he got a pair of those. And this is phenomenal. I mean, if you don't know what they are, they're Gary Quirkline, IJs, which Anthony Caponero worked a lot with and just have really, really nice contrast. But what's exciting to finally have them in my collection is the potential that selective breeding has, you know, I say this all the time, but, you know, it's selective breeding these other subspecies of carpets. You know, there's a lot of potential. I think there's tons of potential. Speaking of which, when we get Derek on, he has a really, really nice pair of IJs going this year. Probably one of the best pairings that I've seen of just straight IJs. So to talk to Derek, Derek, when a couple months more IJs. You know, it's just, I think people, I'm sure that we'll get into this when we have Derek on the course. I think that sometimes people get caught up in the whole more thing. And not that there's anything wrong with that. I like that. You know, I like that side. Yeah. Yeah. I like that whole, you know, who knows what's going to pop out and crazy looking combinations and all that kind of stuff. But I guess, for me, it's not all about that. But you can appreciate the wildlife, which is fine. Yeah. It's funny when you try to get me excited about your IJ. I mean, it's, you know, there's no getting you excited about it. I'm like, yeah, you know, you know, another example would be, you know, you have people over to your, your collect. You can tell when somebody really digs carpet by thorns and when they kind of just are like, you know, admiring a jungle jag or something. Yeah. Yeah. I always pull out. Derek has these. I bought them a while back. They're called. They're like an Atherton type of carpet. Yeah. Yeah. This female. And then you pull her out and people are like, you know what I mean? But I don't know to me. It's just awesome. But no. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. You can tell, like, what somebody's really into. It's like, it's like, it's like, I'm going to show you a white look. Like, that's cool. And I'm like, that was not the appropriate reaction, right? Yeah. It's like, you know, it everybody has what we're doing. That's fine. So if you can find, like, absolute love and adoring in a normal wild type IJ, more power to you. And I'm sure there's, you know, and I'm sure people are like screaming that. You know, a GQ line. It's not a normal wild type. I, I J line. So, you know, it's. Yeah, I guess I think they're pretty. I just, I, nothing about them. Yeah, you're not, you're not really a nerd guy. You like, you need to go for the, yeah. Right. Right. Right. And yet I love the look and feel of a rough scale and they're just brown. Yeah, the dirt snakes, man. What's wrong with you? They look like rocks. I know. Oh, well, one more thing before we get there gone. I don't know. I posted this, you know, one of the projects that I would, you know, work with jungle jags. But one of the things I always envisioned is a jungle jag with no pattern on the side and a black pinstripe down the back. Well, apparently somebody has produced something very similar to that. His name is John Hendricks. I don't know if you saw it over. Morel, you pick of the week today. I did. That thing is incredible. Oh, my God. And, you know, I know some people are going to be like, you know, oh, the colors aren't, it's a baby. You guys chill. Okay. It's going to take me a few years. All right. Yeah. Give it some time. And I think that looks incredible. And you got to love that kind of stuff. So, and it's getting, I don't know if it just popped out of an egg or if he's been really trying to get to that point. But if he hasn't really trying, it's always good to see you with something like that come to fruition and it's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's on that. One thing, one other thing, at the end of this show, maybe, well, I should say by the end of this week, do you think you're going to have blackheads in your collection, Owen? No. No. No. Stop it. No. No. They really are cool snakes. I know they are, but, you know, I couldn't, I wouldn't be able to keep up with the, with the breeding. I mean, I already get, I already get like Vietnam flashbacks when I put my Cal King together. You can imagine doing something like that. I don't think that they have that same type of problem, but I'm not the expert when it comes to that. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah, I think Derek probably has, dare I say, the best collection of blackheads in the United States. I mean, probably up there. Yeah. That's it all. They're definitely, they're definitely a cool Python and they're, they're. They're like, to me, they're like monitors. They're awesome to play with and really cool when they're in someone else's collection. So they've not yet gotten to the, I'm going to make it part of mine yet group. So. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's one of those animals. You don't really appreciate until you have it. Actually, you have it in your hands. Yeah. When you're working with it. They are awesome. I will give them, they are awesome and they're stunning animals, especially when you start getting into like, you know, the big, the Calico, all that other fun stuff. I mean, they are stunning animals. I don't, you know, there's two I like in particular is the tiger stripe where the black stripe goes straight down the back. Yeah. Yeah. And then the, the Westerns. I like, I really like that look. There's, there's a lot of morphs down in, of those guys too, down in, in Australia. Yeah. Crazy stuff going on with them, but I don't know. When they start erasing the blackhead, it kind of takes away. It's cool about it, you know. That was the first thing I said when I told him I'm buying a blackhead. He was, he was calling it a blackhead still. I mean, like. And some people kind of yelled at me for that. And I'm like, well, we should have a question. So, you know, one of those things where, you know, it, it, it, they're, like I said, they're awesome with animals. But yeah. Well, let's get, let's get Derek on here and get this show rolling. Hey, Derek. Welcome back to Moraleo Python radio. Glad to have you. Yeah, man. How you doing, brother? Everything cool? Yeah. We're hanging out. Good deal. Good deal. Yeah, man. Yeah. I heard the blackhead conversation there. That's, you know, it's funny. I told people a lot of the time about blackheads. It's not a fact it's like just having a blackhead is interacting with one. You know, having an interaction with them is what really hooked me for the first thing. Yeah. I mean, sure. Yeah. I saw them in books and I was attracted to the look or whatever, you know, but there weren't a lot of pictures around back in the day when I was really lusting after these things. And a very few people had them. And there was a couple pictures out there, you know, they're floating around in books or, uh, these little internet flyers, little mail flyers used to get. There's no internet back then, you know. And Dick Ghergen, he was famous for putting jerks, colored, pictured, you know, price list. They had pictures of his animals and stuff, even back in the late 80s, early 90s. And it got people all excited about the stuff. But, you know, there really wasn't a lot of stuff out there. And when I interacted with one for the very first time, that was, that was when I was hooked. You know, they just have a different, some non-python, like, you know, they're, I don't know. Yeah. They can't describe it. We've talked about that before. They're more like a big king snake and yada yada yada. Yeah. The personalities are just neat. You know, they got a, they're quirky and they. But you said, you know, you said about breeding them. Breeding them is actually very easy. Okay. Getting eggs is not an, not an issue. It's easy to get eggs. It's hatching the damn things. I'm waiting for the butt. Yeah. It seems to get this butt. I was waiting for that part. So, you know, hatching them. And there's some other factors. I mean, if you keep snakes like, like, like, I don't know where it does, you know, just, people in their natural size, they seem to do better than these big, overfed monsters that you see that people have. So not that kind of goes for all my snakes and jungle carpets and everything. I think you guys saw that video, opposed to this week, of taking one of the German females off the eggs. And everybody's, you know, sending me texts and PMs. And you know, like, dude, that thing's really small. Like, you know, you feel comfortable breeding her that small? And if I do, that's like six years old. Yeah. [ Laughter ] She's had two clutches now. Like, you know, like, you've never been out there. You've never seen a jungle in the wild. I mean, they're barely four or five feet. They're just like, you know, she'll be all right. I promise. Everybody's calmed down. Yeah. I love that word. Like, are you sure? Well, if I was, it's a little late now, right? Yeah. Well, she's been a trooper, too, man. She's, uh, she's a good thing. So what's, uh, you don't know what's new with the... It kills me. You know, it's like the only thing in life is like, man, I don't have the time of the space for everything. [ Laughter ] Yeah. Tell me that is the hard part. [ Laughter ] Yeah. I know. I know. You have to make a decision at some point. You know, I've still got, I've got a lot of carpets hanging out now. You know, more so than I've had in the past years. Um, you know, 'cause I kind of went to blackhead gravy for a long time. I've slimmed my blackhead numbers down just slightly. You know, not, not crazy, but, um, slightly. Right. Yeah. I often wonder, I often wonder, like, uh, when you specialize in, um, in an animal... Like, when you specialize in a species, how do you keep that... Like, I wonder if I ever will, like, get to the point where I say, "Okay, I've had enough of carpet pythons. It's time to move on." You do. You call me. How do you keep that excitement fresh? [ Laughter ] You know? Um, well, uh, natural variation. That's how I do it. Yeah. You know, if I'll hutch out a clutch of animals and there's some with thin stripes and there's some of bold stripes and I'm gonna take those thin stripes and breed them together and the bold stripes and breed them together and who knows? You may pop out like one that's black and you're like, "Oh, wow, that's different." So, that type, you know, it's the same thing really as morph breeding. I heard you say something about, you know, earlier about, you know, you never know what you're gonna get, but, you know, it's the same thing anytime because you can't see through the damn egg, you know? So, you know, you never, even when you breed natural type animals, I mean, you know, there's always some spectacular animals and every single clutch on earth has been asked. There's always one animal in those clutches that's like, "Well, that's nice. That's about average." Or whatever, you know. It doesn't matter what it is. Right. You know, so... It's just a matter of, you know, what do you want to refine? What do you want to go for? I mean, that's kind of like with those New Guinea carpets that I got from the barkers back in way in the day. You know, the moment that I, you know, got the striped ones again because the mother was stripes, you know? I bred stripes to stripes and got more stripes than the ones that were kind of rusty, color, caramel color. I bred all those together and got more rusty caramel colors and the ones that were silver and bred all those together and they got ones that are all silver. You know, it's just like, I don't know, I think these genetics and these animals have been here a long, long, long, long time. You know, it's just now that people are starting to put a definition on it. All right. I remember going in Bend Seagulls one day, probably 2000. So I would have to ask my bass player at the time I was playing with and hate eternal. It was probably 2001, maybe, or 2000. You went in Bend Shop and there was a vision cage, one of those big three foot cages that were real deep up on these deep three foot and 18 inches tall or whatever. And there was a pair of carpet pythons in there. And still, to this day, the best example of a tri-stripe carpet python I've ever seen, both of them. Wow. And they were silver, silver, silver, silver, silver. I mean, silver. And I looked at Randy and I said, "Dude, if they're here when we were leaving for tour, the very next day has to do that they're here when we get back where we can get them." Either mind. Yeah. And they eventually did get sold when we got back. They weren't there anymore. And I asked Ben and Ben, "Hey, he told me where they went, but I can't remember where it escapes me now." But they were really, really nice animals, real killer animals. And, you know, whatever happened to them, I don't know where the baby's who knows. Like, if they end up being anything, if I think of the name here, I'll have to ask Randy maybe I'll call him and see if he remembers who it was. But, yeah, I mean, you know, you see free things like that, you know. There's always an animal that you say to yourself, "Damn, I should have gotten that." You know, and just whether it was money or time or effort or space or, you know, whatever it is. It's produced. Yeah. It prevents you from getting stopped, you know. And if you haven't really wished it, you know, that's the thing. The space, the times, like having the time, like it's in the forest, there's not enough time. There's not enough space for everything, you know. It's like getting like Dumas Boas. I never, in hell, thought I would get back and have Dumas Boas. You know, I think the last time I kept a Dumas Boa in a box was probably 1991. So, yeah, never really kind of thought. And, you know, it's shame on me because it's a beautiful species. I love Dumas Boas. I mean, and I have appreciated them and other people's collections for years, years and years. And I always told my wife, I said, "Man, if I can -- we ever find any good ones, you know, I'll move it so." And to me, he's always like, "Oh, I don't know. I don't like the Boas. I trust me. They're different. You know, you'll dig them. You'll dig them. It'll be fine." And then that crazy one came up that I posted on BLBC before. And I ended up getting that animal. And through posting it online sounds like, you know, another Dumas Boa kind of aficionado up there. And I think he's outside of Chicago. Hey, what's his name? No. But, you know, Eric and I -- I dabble in Boa and Eric avoid them like the plague. So, you know -- Well, Dural's Boas is always one that I -- They're gorgeous. I always -- Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like I said, everything's neat. You know, not enough time, not enough space. Exactly. That exceptional animal comes along and you just have to -- man, I just have to have that, you know. And I got this thing at a good deal. I mean, local price, you know, Dumas Boa, whatever. And I posted that thing online and got five times what I paid for it was in 15 minutes all for two. You know, like, "Hey, I'll take you." You know, and I knew immediately I was like, "Okay, I need to keep this thing and figure out." So, anyway, I met Paul online somehow. He ended up, you know, schooling me good and educating me real good on some of the stuff that's going on. I'm doing most and most of them happening. And sending me pictures of, like, craziness, crazy stuff that he's working on. I mean, I think he's got, like, a collection of 150 strong Dumas Boa's mother-in-law. Damn. So, wow. He's got some crazy stuff going on over there. But he sent me a couple of females on loan that are, you know, good, good, good candidates for this. And because I was just looking forever just to try to find a nice female. And it's, oh, nobody works with them. It's like there was anybody in the Netherlands earlier before we went live, you know. And you're like, "Yeah, they're out there." You know. But where's the variety that, you know, made some of the stuff going to some of those? Right. I mean, yeah, there are guys that, you know, have some Dumas Boas and people who've got a litter or whatever, and they'll hold Salem strictly or something, and they end up at Penn Smart or, you know what I mean? Like, that kind of thing happens. But where are the people that are truly working with, like, everything, you know? Yeah. I know they're out there. I mean, I know they're our guys. Do you think that people get caught up, and I guess my feeling with that is that people do things not because they want to do them because they think they have to do them to be legitimate in the reptile world? You know, I mean, it's almost like, oh, I have to do this if I want to be, you know, legitimate. I bring up, I'll use a reverse example. I always use the whole ball python thing. So, like, if I wanted to keep a ball python, and I'm not talking to more for anything, I'm just talking to, like, a normal ball python, I would be afraid that the Morellia family would crucify me. [laughter] You know? You're bad. And for the longest time, for the longest time, I didn't. I didn't do it. And I was like, screw this. I want to keep this snake, you know? I mean, it's interesting to me because this is like one of the first things that, you know, when I told this story before, when I was young, that, you know, that was like the rare snake, you know, when I go to the pet shop and I'd be staring at it, you know, at the time it was like all colubrids and Burmese pythons were kind of big then. And, you know, nobody really worked with the ball, or wanted anything to do with them, you know? So it was kind of like, I don't know, it just had like this nostalgia, I guess, for me, and I just really dig them. And it doesn't have to be, I don't know, quadruple gene combo because the ones I have are just really just, I have a normals and albino, you know? And I don't even care really about redone them as much as I just like keeping them, you know? Just to have a little bit of it, you know, just to keep that different, something different, you know? You know, and over our time, you know, over our herp lifestyle, you know, we'll keep all types of different stuff. I mean, I can't imagine, you know, outside of stuff you can't get, you know? I mean, I can't imagine, like, something that hasn't really come through my hands at one point in time in the last, I'm 43 years old this year, I've had reptile since literally I was 5 years old, I mean, I've had some type of snake, you know? I can't ever remember a time of life where I didn't, you know? I'm definitely all for the, if you are truly like a reptile nerd, you should try to keep at least one thing. You know, you should try to experience everything at least once. Even if it's not, like, you know, I'm not saying rush out and buy a water monitor, but go over to what you've got to do. You breed the monitors and stuff and then hang out with his stuff. Try to experience every single reptile that's out there because, you know, I know plenty of people who breed Morellia and stuff like that. You have, like, a colony of Cressids and Leachianis because they're just, they like them. Yeah, they're just really cool. Or, you know, there's some people who have, like, random, and everybody has, like, they're, they're go-to, like, their call you breed or their, or their Burmese or something like that. One of the ones that was, like, one of their first reptiles that they can't, just, they can't shake it. It's just always going to be part of their collection, so. Yeah. Yeah. So, I would recommend doing that and don't do what I did and get the water monitor because, you know, that's horrible. They're not prepared. Yeah. Yeah, they can be an handful. Yeah. But, you know, again, but it's, you know, it's about the experience. It really is. Yeah. You know, and even each individual snake, it has its differences and its personality. Of course. They're different from others. I guess some blackheads, if you make eye contact with them, they retreat to the high box. I don't see them for six weeks. I have others that are, like, you know, "Hey, dude, what's up? Let me bite the shit out of you." You know, and, like, you know, just, they're all over the board. It's like anything else. But, you know, like you were saying before, that's what, that's for me, that's what keeps it interesting. Like the carpets, I mean, as much as I love carpet pipes on me, believe me, do I have carpets since 1989, 88, somewhere in there in my junior year in high school? You know, and I have never not, since then, I've never not really had them, you know? But, you know, they are, yeah, they do have their individually personality kind of trees. But they are definitely more programmed, you know, for instinctual things than a blackhead is. And, as a keeper, that I noticed, like, all right, cool, this animal is much more aware of my presence than a carpet pipe on me and something like that. And it's just interesting. They're just cool to interact with. You know, it's definitely, um, it's like an indigo or something else, you know? And some of the boas are weird. They're like completely, I haven't had boas in forever in this, like, just handling boa constrictors to getting used to as a python guy. You know what I mean? You should try, you should try, um, bloods and borneos because I still don't know how to handle mine. It's like, there's not enough of you here. So, and then I look like a jackass trying to handle that thing. So, you know... But bloods? Yeah. It's not long enough. What to do with it? They're goofy. They're like, yeah, they're kind of like moving that odd dresser. You know what I mean? They're just like, yeah, because they're kind of bumpy and shit, you know? So, yeah. They're cool. I mean, blood chip, man. Bloods, man, I had, man, I should, I'm really getting to scan these pictures. I found an old photo of another day of stuff, I was speaking of blood. Like, in 1990, my senior year of high school, um, I got a group of blood pythons from this guy, Randy, he was kind of a guy. You guys heard me mention to him a lot that he's kind of mentored me, like, when I was in high school. He had all kinds of stuff. But, uh, yeah. He's got me hooked up with, like, all of this crazy stuff, you know, during the days when I was lucky to have somebody like that. You know, had all these different species and just, you know, hands-on experience working with these guys, you know? And just like, he got me these bloods and back then I just thought they were so weird just because they were kind of like a... You know, I was fascinated by caboons and they kind of... I didn't really have anything else to compare them to at the time. You know, it was kind of like, yeah, kind of like a, you know, python version of a kaboon or whatever, it's kind of like what you would think back then, you know? Um, right. But they were neat as hell, man. That's still to this day. Again, I like blood. Holly can't stand them. She's like, "I don't want that shit at all." [laughter] For her, it's like what the head looks like. And it's like, she's like, "Nope, reticked blood pythons." Yeah, I'm good. I'm burnt. Yeah, I'm good. You can have all that, you know, something about the head structure. She's like all into the head structure thing where the ship want to deal with an animal or not. And I finally did talk right to the zoom-up fellas because they're docile as hell. You know, you pull them out, they don't do anything, man, they're just working out chill. Yeah. The rainbow fellas on the other hand, which I've gone a shit over here in the last little bit. They're a little bit nippy. They're... No. Yeah. Do they, uh, they're musk? I mean... No, they don't musk. No, no, no, no, some of them do. I would rather be bitten and musked on. Yeah, I mean... So what I... Yeah. It's all my Dominican Red Mountain bows do is just like... Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Like, you touch the tails, it's over. It's over. It's coming and it's coming fast. Yeah. So... Somebody else told me that their olive pythons started doing it recently. And she's like 10 feet. She's just not like big. And all of a sudden, now she wants to like piss and shit all over everything. Oh, that's annoying. That would piss me off. Yeah, that's not cool. I didn't put pipeline decides we're going to do this. It's like, oh, yeah, that would really annoy me. Wow. And you're gone. Yeah. Yeah. Did you vibrate? You're out here. Yeah. Bye-bye. Yeah. I will get another one. Yeah. What's... What's the biggest difference between keeping, um, you know, pythons and now working with a couple species of boas? What's... Is it in the keeping or... I, you know, I don't really do anything different. I know that the boa, specifically the rainbow boas and the boomers, they don't like it hot at all. So they don't like the 88 degree, you know, temperature 89, 90 degree, you know, stuff that the blackheads dig during the day. They, they... Right. I kind of put them in a rack and leave them room temperature and they're happy. Right. They constantly soak and they're constantly like, you know, outside of that, I mean, you know, just not keeping them too hot. I... I think they... It's kind of, I think my female, um, the rainbow boa is not, uh, my, my, at least the one that's making us actually breathe. Um, she's going through all the signs and the motions. Uh, that'd be interesting because I, back in the, uh, see 93 or 94, I had a couple of imported females that laid litters for me. It mostly slowed, so I don't know if they were just in horrible condition. But there were a couple live ones in there, um, that are raised for a little while. So, you know, it had to be neat just to have the experience again, you know. Again, same thing with the rainbow boa. So I sold, uh, a guy that I met over in Fort Myers area, a blackhead and drove up in there and he had these three adult rainbow boas. And one of them specifically was just outstanding. I was like, wow, that is one of the nice rainbow boas I've ever seen. He's like, yeah, man, she's nice. He was, honestly, I'm thinking about moving these things. And I was like, well, look, if you ever decide you want to sell that female, let me know I'll buy her. And then, you know, we were driving away and got like halfway home and he called me. He said, hey, man, if you want that female, I'll bring her to you next week or whatever. He wanted to come over. She's a collection anyway. I said, yeah, so bring her over. I ended up getting a male and then I ended up getting another one and another one and now I'm like up this. We know how that goes. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what happened. It just kind of literally happened within three weeks. I'll say, man, where all these rainbow boas come from? Then my wife comes over here. She's like, I'm a rainbow boa. I'm like, oh, no, what are you? Too funny. She has this question. I don't know who's winning this problem. I have no idea. And once even one year we had the Kyogas house and she's telling the story to Tom, like Tom's only different. And I can see it because Tom and I are really close. You know, we're pretty good friends. And I can see his eyes. He's like shifting around and I'm like, yeah, I'm thinking under my breath. Like, don't even ask him any Tom has. He probably don't even know. You know, he's like, oh, good. So, you know, he's got like, you know, 60. He's like, yeah, I got like, 19, 21. So, that's literally happened in two weeks. Yeah. So, it's funny. When you go for something, you just got to go for it sometimes, you know, and do it. Yeah. What's that? If it's what you want, don't, uh, don't sell yourself short. So, it's one of those things of like, I always like talking to people who are like, I want to make the best looking jungles ever. It's okay to like, I want to do it by only buying 50 dollar jungle. Like, well, that? Yeah. Not going to work that long. It's like, it's fun to you. So, it's like, if you want to see it 20 years, right? Yeah. I mean, you know, and some people like that. I mean, you know, some people like just, okay, I'll buy this and I'll work on it. And I'm like, hey, I'm kind of like that in that regard. You know, it's like some of my jungles I've had for years. I haven't gone out and had any new blood. I mean, I know there's better stuff out there, but, you know, I don't care. Whatever. It's like, I got what I got. And that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't need jungles. I have jungles. So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're neat. Yeah. It's like, why not have them? Have more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I really like to do these things, little sad view pythons. I love the moves. Yeah. Why aren't the eaters funky? Dear lord. They're, they're, they're, they're, I told the brothers, like, they're fine. But when food is around. Like, my male will actually jump out of the tub and, like, try to grab the food. Miss, and then, like, go flying and, like, fall down the floor. Oh, yeah. When they, when they do wrap it, they wrap it with their entire body. Yeah. So, I mean, food response to the max. Yeah, they're cool. My male is cool. He's handleable. My female is absolute lunatic. Oh, really? I mean, like, even, even cleaning her cage, I have to put newspaper over to front of her case because she'll bang her hand for 30 minutes. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Man, she gets up. Now, you get her out. She's okay. Well, she's out a little bit. She's, like, chilled. Whatever. But she goes defensive real quick, you know. I don't really handle my stuff a lot either. I guess you've probably gone down if I. Yeah. You, you have any other liasses or just the savoobs? Um, well, I've got the, I don't know if you guys remember those cool, crazy spotted pythons that I hatched a couple of years back, you know, in that group, but outside of that, you know, just those guys. Okay. Yeah. They were, you know. Yeah. The room, you know, I'll leave the rings to Tom because he's got some of his rounds. Yeah. I can enjoy those over there. Just like his bowl of spices. I can go over there and enjoy his bowlings and like, all right, that's cool. I don't have to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, dude, I mean, you know, people always tell me it's like, it's, it's funny with people. And like, you have to wonder why we're, we're programs as human beings to do this type of stuff. But everybody like most, you know, 99, 90% of the people in the, in the reptile kingdom will say, oh, man, bowl of spices, man. Oh, man. No, it's like, I, I was able to have a bowl. It's been until you actually have one and it's taken a crap to size of a damn dinner plate. And it's for people that have, I will kill the shit out of you. It's really for spots. And like, dude, I mean, like people don't realize, you know what I mean? I would not want them to be completely after the Tom's. And seeing what Tom's are like, I mean, and I know that people's oh, you know, they're docile or whatever. Uh-uh. Not Tom's. No, every time I fix or eight of them and every single one of them will kill you dead. Every one of them. Really? No. Not something. It's not pissed off. It's food response. Oh, food response. Okay. All right. I mean, I don't even know. I don't even know if he would mind me telling this story, but he got in trouble over there his place with two of them. And they wrapped him up. Oh. If he, if he wasn't experienced and if he didn't know what he was doing, somebody was, somebody would have died. Or something else that would have been dead. Um, so, and like people don't realize, you know, these are big animals and people, oh, man, I look at the bollins and like I said, until you have to deal with them. Yeah. Wow. You know, cause that gets old, man. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. You know, he's got this pepoo and olive pythons too, man. And the way that his room, that adult room is set up, there is not enough room for you to get away. When that cage comes open, you literally have to run out the door because the first thing that animal goes for is your eyes and there's nowhere to go. Oh. It can strike ones around that cage than the space that you had to get away from it. Wow. I mean, that's just something I don't want to do. And even Tom was like, "You don't care about these things." You know what I mean? Not really, but you know, he's like, I can see in his eyes when he has to deal with him. I'm like, "Damn, why do I have these?" You know? Yeah. But for somebody like Tom, you know, he's like, you know, he's bred so many things in this decision. You know, he wants to check those off the list. I mean, that dude's bred more animals than anybody I know. Anybody might be able to be completely honest. I mean, out of all the big guys, other than maybe Crutchfield, doing some of those crazy crocs and stuff like that. Tom, man, he's had everything. I mean, not even just snakes, but lizards and, you know, every bird. Don't you think, don't you guys think that, too? I think when you take a guy like Tom, like I think his success is probably the fact that he's not just specifically working with one thing. And if you experience other things, it kind of like makes you think outside the box with the species that you're working with, you know? Yeah, I mean, he's just, you know, some people just got it. You know what I mean? Tom's like one of those people. He's just got it. You gift it. He reacts with that. I mean, I get to see that because he's close to me or whatever. You know, I'm experienced. I've had a lot of experienced with animals and stuff over my years or whatever, but Tom, it's just one of these guys that's just born with it, you know? Right. So it has cool to see. Yes, it's cool to see that. Like Crutchfield is kind of in the same way, you know, because somebody's just got it. You know, it's not that touchy. Like, for the rest of us, it's kind of like, oh, yeah, we learn about trial and error, but, like, some guys like that just kind of seem to know, you know, how, what to do and how to do it. It's interesting and it's cool. Like, that's like the individual differences and all of us. They make it, they make you cool, you know what I mean? Right. Absolutely. Yeah. I don't know. But for a long time, bones were one of those ones that for me, it was like, ah, it's like a pinnacle species, but, you know, to be honest, I don't know. I'm kind of like, I'm kind of more fascinated with my diamond pythons. I've said this before, it's kind of like, to me, diamond pythons are much cooler than Boland's. Boland, you know, they're more or less. But it's going to take me out and beat me up again. Well, I mean, it is a matter of them being cooler or, you know what I mean? It's like, they appeal to you. You know, maybe you're just. To me. I should say to me. Yeah. Yeah. But maybe you're just more realistic and like knowing what you can and cannot house and just, you know, having a 14 foot animal, 12 foot animal. You know, you look at it and then you say, well, diamonds, you know, they're kind of the same kind of vibe and it's so much easier to have, you know. So I can get it in the same way. You know, diamonds are, I like, as far as carpet pythons, you know, the diamonds to me. They're just a neat individual animal, you know, in and of themselves. And they're particularly cool. They're different, you know, than a lot of the carpets and their reactions and things. Yeah. They're, they're, they're neat species. They don't know themselves. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, also very short ago. I mean, you know, they're all the 14 foot animal. Yeah. I'm like a snack. Well, for a long time, berms were my, were my, you know, I was, I love Burmese pythons, but you know, you're right. You get to a point where, and I, I really, sometimes I go online. I mean, I know it's not as easy as it is now. But, you know, I would go online and say, oh, yeah, man, look at this. Look at this berm. It's really, really, really cool. You know, and it's like, um, no, no thanks. Yeah. They are. They're really cool. Man, so many Indian pythons. You know, I mean, like again, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The Sri Lanka. Oh, man. I just had it for the first time, uh, retake, um, in my collection for the first time ever. And it was a purple motley or whatever lavender motley. It was gorgeous. Oh, yeah. And it was gorgeous. And I so was tempted to keep it, but it was just coming through. And on its way to some other place, we're better home with good accommodate it. But so tempted to keep it. Yeah. Yeah. Or killer. If you can find the dwarfs or the super dwarfs that haven't been crossed, you know, that's a good option for them. Because, you know, they, they're really cool animals. Again, retakes are very, very aware. You know, and they seem to have like a bond with you more so than like, or a bond with their environment. I said the same with you. A more of a bond with their environment than a lot of other pythons. You know, they're just, they're very acute. You know, they're, they're interesting species, for sure. Like I said, not enough time, not enough space. Yeah. Not enough money to pay somebody to clean the crap. You know, it's just not, not there. Yeah. But hey, you know, that's cool. It's like, you know, you go through things. I don't know how long I'll have their moles or how long I'll have rainbow balls. I'm sure probably from now on out, I'll have at least a pair. I mean, I know I'll always have like it. I don't know, I'll always have carpet by dogs, jungles at least. Right. It's a good thing to look at. You know, I mean, I, you know, who knows? Who knows what, what, you know, what's in the future? Or will we even be allowed to keep? Oh, sorry, Dad. Yeah. What's your, what's your thoughts on all that, Derek? You know, being down there and farting. I, I stay shut up about it because, you know, I, you gotta understand, you know, I came from a time where if you wanted it to build reptiles, you drove out of state and you met in a hotel room, you did your business, and you stayed tonight, you drove back the next day with 40 grand in your pocket. You know what I mean? So, I don't necessarily mind going back to that because that is incredible. You know what I mean? Right. As far as getting off the internet and, and you know, that whole thing going back to mailing list. And, you know, to me, I mean, if it has to go underground, that's so be it. It's not going to stop me from keeping them or doing what I'm doing with them. So, you know, regardless, whatever. I don't really think about it either way or the other. I mean, I think everybody gets all up in arms about it. You know, but honestly, I think if people just shut the hell up, then maybe it, you know, about it and quit bringing so much attention to not necessarily like the groups that are fighting it, but just as a community as a whole. You know, do what we need to do. But, you know, if it's at the public eye all the time, you know, I, I was talking with somebody not too long ago and they brought up that I, that, that J Brewer video with him sitting in the, in the tank with the retakes, you know, and they're striking at him. You know, haha, it's all funny, whatever. But if you did, I think for a minute that that video went across every senators desk the week that they voted on that damn bill, you'd be buying yourself equal opportunity to think that, like, whatever the hell that happens in the community is just free for all. And I guarantee you that video may just weigh around because it was released seven days before they voted on the damn thing. Yeah, so, you know, you got to kind of make a decision. Am I making the right decision here? You know, I mean, dumb. It's, you know, that's why I never have videos of my animal eating, and I never pictures of what they've done to me that night. Okay. I mean, if I get chewed on, the only people who know about it are myself and the animal that fit me. Okay. No, you know, and I understand, I get it. I understand what he's trying to do. He's trying to promote awareness. Okay. These are not evil monsters, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. I get it. I understand. You know, it's just words. I understand. But what these people see is something entirely different because they are not snake people. I had the non-snake people texting me that video saying what this is getting, like, beat up. And oh my God, I'm like, it's all right. It's like the teeth and even puncture of the jacket. He's okay. You know, it's like, but to have those people go around the barn and then it come back to me is already bad. Hey, but you know, as well as I do, that shit could have went south real quick. Very quickly. Oh my God. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, so I mean, again, you know, again, not necessarily the best decision, you know, but yeah. But it is what it is. You know what I mean? So again, if it goes underground, it's our fault. You know what I mean? Yep. Anything else happens at this point. You know, just shut up. You know, stop doing stupid shit. Stop posting pictures of yourself holding them on this other crap and, you know, go away because nobody will have anything to talk about. You know, all the backstabbing in the industry and all this other stuff. You know, it's like, they're looking at us at, you know, go look at these people. Just shut up. Yeah, I got to be honest. That's something that kind of like, I think of, I don't know, as of late, it just seems like every week there's some new drama kind of stuff and it's like. Yeah, I mean, I just think I just like. I'm going to the point now, where I just take the wee, more yelling at drama. Oh my God, I can't stand anything. I just, I stick to posting pictures and saying, ha ha and thanks guys and, you know, liking thumbs up. I mean, it gets to a point to where you can't, you can't participate in something without, you know, without it turning into bullshit a lot of times. Yeah. I mean, Heidi, that's fine. I get it. You know, I think we had this discussion with, with CK about the reptile shows and stuff. You know, it's like, there's those guys, you know, that they bitch and complain or whatever about prices of animals. And I used to eat threads all the time over there about these guys. And it's like, well, you know, it's like, why, how would you think it would be different? You're reading the same animals that you mean, it's like, if you go to a reptile show, it's like, every single vendor in there pretty much is about the same thing on their table. And they're looking at the guys across from right beside them that all have the same stuff. And I've always wondered, like, when you want to stand out for that, you know, like me and that's how a person, you know, who enjoys seeing stuff, like who would go to a reptile show to, to hopefully see the type of species that I will never get a chance to interact with other than outside of an event like that. And you see the same stuff, you know, show after show after show. Yeah, it just gets, man, it really is disheartening as a, as a reptile guy. And then that, that on turn makes me not care, you know what I mean about the industry and about, you know, all this stuff with U.S. ark and the laws. That's what makes me, because it doesn't seem like a lot of those people are doing that or they don't seem like the guy that was hiding a reneck from the mother in a shoe box under their bed when they were four or five years old. You know what I mean? Like, no, they seem like the friend of the guy who did that, who saw dollar signs and started to jump in. Well, and some of them, and I get this on people genuinely or into them and understand, you know, like, I said, Tom and I laugh about it all the time, because we say like, man, normal ball pythons, if you actually have some normal pythons that don't have any morph genetics in them, those things are going to be gold in 10 years. I'll tell them for my thought, I don't really care. Because I know people all the time that I quote normals, you know, how to bend or out of ryan's or wherever, and they put them together and they get a spider or they get something, you know, like, or pastel or whatever. I don't even know the genetics well enough to know what they get, but, you know, most of these people think they got normals and they put them together and they get something weird, you know. So, eventually in 10 years, like, wild type genetics, they're going to be gone because they're not simply, they're just simply not importing wild type genetics anymore. Even all the stuff they're bringing in is all can't detach stuff over there. So, because they've called on to the ball game, like, oh, these, you know, the ones that are different, you know, command more money. So, you know, they've all called on to it. Yeah. I don't know. It's like one of those things. I kind of feel bad for the people because there, I think there are people that are genuinely, you know, just as excited about ball pythons as I am about carpet pythons or you are about blackheads or, you know, and I think that they get lumped into this category of these, you know, for lack of a better term, assholes. You know, that don't do things. Those people have a variety of collection, whether it's corn snakes or whether it's leopard geckos or whatever it is. Generally, those people, you know, they have a pair of carpet pythons tucked in a corner somewhere. Or, you know what I mean? They say, yeah, they're just people that are like solely like the ball pythons. Let me crank out this more from like that and that. I mean, there's so many of those guys that are out there that just, to me, they just don't really seem like snake people, you know. I don't know. And that's, you know, I can't think of anybody off the top of hand. I don't know what I name anybody. Anyway, like I said, it's all good. What are you going to do? Just, for me, as a person, it's like a reptile enthusiast. It's a shame that I don't, you know, that I don't have the outlet that I used to have. We go to a show and you'd see a species that's like, wow, you know, a rain python. Cool. Oh, he has a whole fucking thing of rings. Look at that. Oh, that was striped. Oh, man, that's cool. Can a whole blonde poo? Oh, wow. Never hold one of these before. You know, I mean, you get that somewhat, you know, but I don't know. Yeah, it's definitely not like it used to be. I remember the first time I went to the Hamburg show, it was kind of like, you know, it was, it was more exciting than going to the zoo, you know, it seemed like a more variety than going to the zoo. And species that, you know, that you would never see at the zoo. And it's like, wow, actually good to see this in real life. Wow, there it is right there on that table, you know. And now it's kind of like, I'm just, I just think that people, they, I really have a feeling that people think that in order to get any kind of I don't know credit from your peers. It's almost like you have to do what they're doing. You know what I mean? I don't know. Sure. Sure. I get it. Yeah. It's like this guy's not going to notice me unless I have blah, blah, blah, you know, and it's like, okay, I gotta get it. It's the same thing with the ballons, Python's. Do people really want to work with ballons because they, they want to or do they want to be their guy? And it's like, oh, well, I bred ballons. What have you done? You know? I bred them last year. They got four fertile eggs, and then the rest were slugs, but they, they, they weren't very well. They had veins, but they weren't very strong at all. People are getting success with that. So it's like, I would almost wonder if, if as the captive born and bred population increases, will they start to lose like their lustre, like their draw? Would you, you know, start having people kind of drop off? It's available too in husbandry. You got to think about that too. Like, over the years, people have learned that their snakes don't want to be 90 degrees all the time. You know? So if people are like, okay, well, cool. Maybe, maybe 86 is as good for an ambient. We'll give them a hotspot, and then they can drop 82 at night, and maybe that's fine. And we just learned over time. It's like, when people used to cook diamonds back in the day, you don't really see that anymore to you. Oh, if you learned what to do with them, yeah. Yeah, people know how to keep them. You know, back in the day, people were keeping them too hot. You know, it was like, nothing wants to be hot 24/7/8, you know? I don't. I mean, I know a little Florida and everything, but at least it drops in the grease at night, you know? Good grief. Yeah, right? I think maybe you guys would agree with me or disagree, but my thinking is this when it comes to that. We were kind of this conversation before the show started about scrub pythons is that I always feel that scrub pythons are kind of like one of those species to never get worked with because it's not a... I see this a lot and I'll apply it to the ball pythons again. It seems like even when you go inside that world of morphs, they don't even really work with or excessive morphs as much as they do with incomplete dominant because they can just turn that out. You know, it's like, boom, it's immediate satisfaction. And I think what happens with these species like bolognes or scrubs or stuff is that there's no immediate satisfaction. You're looking at like seven, eight, maybe 10 years, you know, until that animal gets acclimated and half the time it gets passed around before it even has a chance to get acclimated and then you got to start to process all over again. I don't think it's that they're hard to breed. They just never get a chance to get used to what's going on. Well, it can be something very easily. Any species does not work with on the level that you see ball pythons worked with or even now starting to be carpet pythons worked with. There's a simple explanation for it. There's no morphs. So there's no morphs. People don't want anything. I mean, blackheads are just now starting to become popular. Why? There's morphs. There's azanthic and albinos out there. So now people give a shit. You know what I mean? I heard before. Rainbow Boa, same thing. Now you got a couple guys out there producing some killer rainbow boas. Oh, guess what? Now rainbow boas on everybody's list. Oh, I've got to get those because there's morphs. You know what I mean? It's the thing with the Columbian. Who wants a Columbian boa constrictor? Now they're flying off the shelves with sisters and albinos. You know what I mean? Everybody gets around 25 or 30 keepers this year to happen. You know what I mean? Okay, because there's morphs. I mean, nobody cares about a brown ass Columbian rainbow boa. Very, very few people. Very, very few people that keep them are like, wow, that blows me away. They're out there. They are out there, I'm sure. But there's no morphs. Well, that's probably why you see like to me. Well, you guys were talking about, you know, savoos and stuff and olives, but maclots to me are, yep, they're just bad ass. And I think that this was set a long time ago. You know, if you had a carpet python that was solid brown with some gold and black flecking going down the back, you know, or on the sides, people would be like, oh my God, I'll pay 10 grand for that. But then you have a snake that is like that. And people are like, naturally, man. Yeah, man. I know, but we're really about the inlands, you know, people to pay for the advantage for the good. You know, it's like, yeah, I don't get that. They're bad ass snakes. No morphs though. You know, and like I said, if you want somebody to get interested in scrubs, patch an albino. Everybody, no brother, I want them then. You know what I mean? So, you know, change your market, man. That's a huge case of market. You know, that's kind of what we did with blackheads. Right. You know, I mean, yeah, Matt Turner and there's a couple of other guys that were working with them. But Matt had, you know, good success with them for three or four years and then he kind of got out of them, you know. And that's kind of been the case with most people with blackheads where, you know, Tom and I now, we've been running pretty, you know, 10 years, specifically with this stuff. You know, we got stuff that nobody else outside of, you know, Europe and Australia has, you know, just because we've been working on it. And we've been doing the necessary breeding and what we need to do to, you know, further the species down the line and make this, make living art, you know. Right. Until that happens, you know what I mean? You start making scrub python so you can put an identifiable label on, you know what I mean? Barneck or whatever it is, but if you can, you know, make those barnecks look like yellow jackets and, you know, like yellow jackets, grubs or, you know, once you start marketing this stuff, then that's how you get people into it, you know, but you got to stick with it. You got to be persistent and you got to work with the animals and you were saying, you know, now you got all these males. Well, guess what? Now you got to go fucking start over, you know, because if you really want it, you know what I mean? That's your only option. And that sucks to revive animals. I get it. And, you know, we don't have 10 years to some of us, you know, but, I mean, hey, if you wanted to happen, then you just do it, man. You know, it's like, I can't tell you. I've got pictures and pictures and pictures and pictures. I've got a freezer full of perfectly formed blackheads dead in the eggs, probably 50 or 60 of them. You know, does that not be from keeping them? You know, does it stop me trying to figure out why, you know, that this stuff happens? Probably my, I can't tell you how many blackhead clutches I've had over the year, but I've had only my third, four, sorry, 400% hatch rate last week. I don't look for that. Oh, wow. Wow. And all this time doing it, you know what I mean? So, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't keep me from wanting to do it. It makes me want to try harder. Like, oh, man, seriously, if I'm having this hard of a time with them, what's everybody else going through? You know, you have to, and I know guys in Australia right now that they've met a couple of guys over there who've had a really bad year this last year. You know, it's like people that were doing really well for a couple of years, so all of a sudden their animals are, they ha ha see, that's what happens when an industry gets commercialized and you start getting commercialized rodents and stuff and you're feeding this stuff to these animals that don't eat that crap. It's one thing when you're raising your own rodents, you know, but when you start industrializing an industry, things change, you know, and diet is one of those big things that changes, you know, look at McDonald's. I mean, we industrialize the fast food industry. What happened? The diet went to the crap, you know, but the first thing is to go when you industrialize anything is the diet. You know, so for an animal that's like, like a blackhead that's diet specific and it's diet sensitive, you know, how many years did people try to breed these things and throw large rats into them because they think that they get 10 feet, you know what I mean? Because they will when you feed them like that because they're damn often they're not opportunistic. I mean, they actually hunt, you know, they're not amber spreaders. They hunt every day. They don't move around, wait for food to come to them, you know, they're moving all the time. If you have a blackhead that's not moving, it's something wrong with it. That's not the exact question. That's just the way it is, you know, so, I mean, I'm in my room right now. I'm looking at 35 blackheads right now. All people looking at me like, hey, dude, what's going on? You know, they're all like doing what they should be doing. My carpets are all asleep when their branch is doing their thing, you know, but like the blackheads, they're just different, you know, they hunt and people over fit these animals for so long and now that we started to figure out, okay, well, we need to feed these animals a little differently. And people come over here and see my female blackheads that have laid two or three times for me and they're barely five feet. Right. Like heads back in the day that, you know, you've turned, you know, ten foot animals, nine foot animals, and I always thought, man, that's a big, you know, but then you see, you go in the wild and see them. There may be some long ones, but they're skinny, you know. I've never seen a big one in the wild or never seen pictures of even a big one in the wild, really. They've all been skinny. Slender animals like a kingsnake or something. Yeah, they may be seven feet, six feet, but they're not supposed to look like a blood piper. Yeah, that was right. And a lot of those guys back in the day, like when you go back and look at some of those old pictures of people who pose a matte turner and Jim Sargis, some of these guys, you know, back in the day that were keeping these animals, even a dug price. Look at some of the pictures on their, on their, you know, and you can see the fat folds in the animals on the website. You can see it. Like, and then they wonder, well, why didn't they, you know, why do these animals do all that well or, you know, why are they only producing a few years and then done now? We just had a guy that today from Europe, he said, they just female produced once and it's been like six years and she never produced ever again. So yeah, that's, that's what happens when you ever feed the blackhead. And I know so many people that are in that situation. But for somebody like Eric, you know, I know you don't overfeed, you know, you're probably being affected. No, no, not Eric. No, not Eric. Yeah. Oh, my God. We talked about this before, like you, you take your time and reason animals up and, you know, I've gotten to the same way you have to do that with blackhead. And that's something you can turn around in eight months and breed if you want to have a healthy animal in five years here. It's one of those things where it's like taking your time is going to be better in the long run. Yeah, you have a smaller female. You might have a smaller clutch, but you'll have her for like more years than you would have you freaking powered her. And it's only because I got an email from somebody earlier this week asking me what the ages were for breeding animals. And I'm like four or five and they're like, that's a long way. I'm like, not really. I mean, you know, we're not trying to turn and burn at two years old here. It's not a good thing. And not only that, I mean, you think about what blackheads, I mean, the biggest clutch of a couple of the blackheads is 18 out of a really big female, you know, an eight foot knife of a female. It's a big egg for blackheads, right? It's a big egg. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had to retake some bigger even, you know. But for me as a keeper, you know, if I have six females go, I don't want 18 eggs out of every female to have this feed. I'll shoot myself. I mean, there's no way you can keep them alive. That's just too much work. You know, so I stagger females, you know, I've never been females two years in a row. And I always make sure that I'm producing only one. I know that, you know, I'm either going to be able to keep that I want for myself or stuff that I know that I can move in the market. Yeah. And a lot of people don't think do that. I think people just put together whatever they go. Oh, I got to get all these eggs. And I think if I get to reef as females, they can get as many eggs out of them as possible. I don't know. I've just never been that type of breeder, you know. Yeah. I think I took that from you, Derek, a long time ago on the BLBC. I think, you know, back when I was just starting out, you had, you had, you know, people were talking about, I guess, the carpet by time market or whatever. And that was something that you said that always stuck with me. If you're going to breed it, then you have to be able to, you have to think in your mind that you're probably, well, I shouldn't say probably, you might not be able to sell these. So you might have to hold on to these and what are you going to do with, you know, 20 clutches of, I don't know, coastal carpets or, you know, that doesn't sell. Like, what do you do with that, you know? Eventually you figured out. I mean, I'm lucky because I had been here for years when I was touring in bands. For you right before, you know, Morelia Pies has even started, like, in '88, sorry, '98, '99, 2000. You know, I had already produced a good number of carpet pysons that I had sold to Ben. Wow. From the New Guineas, I mean, IJ carpets that I had gotten from him, and it's funny, like a lot of these ladies, I was just saying. Because I was talking to Matt La Crosse, I think it was, I was talking to Matt La Crosse last week, we were talking about some of these IJ lines, and a lot of them were bought out of Ben's sequels. And I probably sold during '99, 2000, 2001, because I was on tour, I'd have time to raise these babies up, man. I probably sold Ben 100 babies. Oh, wow. You know that. Oh, that sucks. Some of that stuff, some of that stuff could have even come for me to begin with. You know, I mean, I'm saying that it did, but there's a likely chance. I mean, I noticed some guys, you know, got wild caught stuff, but, man, I tell you, dude, every time Ben would get wild caught IJ, he'd call me. Like, dude, I just got a ship and they come and I look, I mean, anything that was real good, I got. I'm trying to get the ship pretty bad. It left my mind. It left my mind. Yeah. Unless I was on tour and Ben called me, I was like, "Hey, I got a ship with Ben." I was like, "Sorry, I'm away. I'm like, you know, whatever." I think I was the case with some of the stuff that Will got. But who knows? You know, during that time period, I sold Ben all types of stuff, you know? Right. I don't know. It's just funny. I was around those around kind of thing. And what he sold stuff as and what people, you know, I remember taking the New Guineas over there for the first time and he advertised them at that and like the entire world blew up. Like everybody was calling him telling me to know what he was talking about. "Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." People had posted, he had posted the hat on the internet or whatever on King's make. You know, of course he was an idiot and all this other stuff, but yeah, it's just funny. Yeah, I saw a thing today where somebody sent this to me and it said somebody was selling a wild call at Kondro. Oh, my God. And he'll be playing the fact that it was a wild call. Well, here's the thing. Like, here's the thing. So should they lie about that or should they not lie about that? They should not lie about that, but you know. So the people will get upset because they misrepresent the end. It would be the first one to say, "Oh, they misrepresented the animal." That's clearly a wild call, you know. So this person bypasses that and says, "Okay, well, this is a wild-caught animal. I've, I've, but wild-caught Kondras are illegal." So, I don't know. It's just weird how people, I don't know. Yeah. It's like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, you know. Well, and you know, and you see a lot of guys getting, a lot of the younger people that come into it, you know, we made mistakes. And it's easier than ever to do with the Internet. I mean, I saw a guy one day that he was customer of POMs and he had bought some animals or whatever, and then all of a sudden he got this bright idea that he was going to be, you know, like a breeder, you know. And he was going to breed all this stuff. So then he starts like, you know, he gets a business going and he goes on, like, one of these forms on Facebook and basically just repost Mark Bell's pictures. And like, yeah, I've got these animals this time, because all he's doing, because he lives like close to Mark, he was going to buy in Mark's animals and just sell in Mark's animals. But, so I text, I mean, I PMed him. I was like, "Dude, you know, I understand what you're doing." And I, you know, it's just one of these rookie mistakes that people make. It's kind of like, you know, if you're going to rehab animals, rehab animals. If you're going to breed stuff, breed stuff, you can't rehab animals and breed stuff. Don't do it both. Don't do it. You know what I mean? Pick one or the other because, like, everybody seems like everybody's just starting out and they got sympathy for all these animals and they want to collect everything they have so they can have a big collection. But they don't understand that that just shoots them in the foot. You know what I mean? So you try to help people as much as you can and you see this kind of, you know, this stuff happen, you know, more readily online, you know. And it's just something you got to, you know, you got to be aware of as people that are older, I guess, and as peers and, you know, guys that came before us, you know, they tried to teach us, you know, things. It's a whole different world now with the internet and, you know, how it operates. And it's just so much different than it was, you know. I think it's even worse now with, I don't know if worse is the right word, but with Facebook. It seems that on the forum, there was a, I don't know, it seems like there was a different mentality and now with Facebook, it's like, oh man. I guess it's opened up to more people, you know, so it's. Yeah. You know, I can understand if you're going to go and you're going to buy from Mark Bell, then, you know, he takes your own pictures. I mean, I don't know, maybe it should be, you know, and I wasn't trying to be a dick and it's just like, dude, you know, it's something I'm observing and I'm watching you do just a rookie mistake. Don't do that again or if you, you know, your name will be mud before you ever even get off the ground. And you're good people because he has these good people, you know, he's just made a mistake. Yeah. And that's fine. Learn from it. You know, we can go on. Yeah. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen a lot, you know. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's kind of one of those weird things. I don't know. But the thing that you would never make a mistake is just, that's crazy too. I mean, save something you regret or, you know. Yeah. Yeah. You know what, the biggest mistake that I always regret to this day and I went to Tampa to do a rehearsal for a show for the head. I knew I had my head feeling about the show to begin with. We were going down to South America and we were supposed to do like three shows down there or whatever and we get down there and it's just a fluster. I mean, like with gear to hells with suddenly three shows are now one. Oh, great. You know, for like, you know, for as making money and stuff, I'm like, man, what the hell. So at that point in time, my wife, I can't remember why she didn't come over here. I think maybe she was out of town herself. But I came back from there and I had a timer malfunction that cooked a lot of my stuff, my original male NG. Well, like a few pair of IJs that I had at the time. I'd have to think that I had it went with Rudy. I don't know if you guys remember Rudy or not. I had this over. I was just a female. I had a male with her that was in there that passed. And dude, it just devastated me. And that was when I said, you know what, I can't have all of this stuff and be going out of town like this and not have somebody here to come and take it. So I kind of like, I went on the ground for a little while. That was like a 2001, I think 2000 ones right there. Just shortly after that. So I kind of like sold stuff. I had like, I kept Mindy and kept Rudy. It was my original NG, my original one, my original Atherton, but part of the Atherton lines that I had. And that was it. And then I knew that, you know, I knew I could get a male from my guy in South Carolina who still had Atherton stuff. You know, as far as outside the babies that I still had that were in another rack that were safe, you know, those guys were all good. And thankfully because that NG line would have been lost, you know. But, you know, you have access to this and stuff like that happens. You know, it just, that was a learning curve for me because it was a cheap timer, you know, and a thing just burned out. And I could have spent $40 and got one that was, you know, killer, but no, I had to buy the $15 one because I wasn't the cheat. So, you know, it's going back. You know, it's like, oh, right. And I lost my animals because of it, you know. Right. That was a picture. So you learn. And you go through, we all, we all fuck up. And we, you know, it's what it is, you know. Yeah, I guess it's, you just don't make the same mistake again, you know. I mean, it's great. You take. I don't know. I mean, and obviously stuff happens. Thank God I have never, you know, not gonna would here. You know, my collection's been pretty sound ever since, you know, but still, you know, it's a. I thought I could get out for a year or two and then right back in it with the black. And then I decided to stop doing altogether because I knew that the animals were going to benefit me more in the long run than doing that crap was. Right. It's going. But I do get to go to Columbia. I'm going down doing a drum performance down in Bogota, the 15th and 16th of Mankey, which would be cool. Some of them try to get out and see if I can see some animals while I'm there. I don't know. Wow. That's really cool. Yeah. Thankfully, I could stay a little bit busy with the drum stuff. You know, as long as I'm doing it by myself, I do more product related things now with the drum companies and stuff that endorse me or whatever. But instead of, you know, like band stuff, I don't feel like I have to babysit anybody that way. You can just be me. What's your hair? What do you get? Oh, well, what you guys got going on for touches this year? Anything you're looking forward to and decided to see? I'd heard you talk about it earlier. You want to go first? You have that big group of, you know, and you have the crazy one, Eric. Well, like I was saying, I got some crazy morph carpet stuff that's catching out. But one of the things that I'm excited about is the coastal clutch that I got. The end-end stuff, which is the Lemke line of coastal. Yeah, lovely. Striped lavender, you know. So I'm looking forward to that. I do have one crazy thing that I don't know what's going to turn out, but I have a super caramel zebra jag that I've bred to a tiger. Curious to see what happens with that. Other than that, just, you know, I don't know what the tiger stuff is going to do with the zebra stuff. Yeah, that would be interesting. You have the beauty of like the morph game because like, you know, you can kind of tie in. I mean, natural genetics, they're kind of, they're a little more sporadic and a little more across a range of variations more so than like, you know, a jag. Or, you know, a granite, rosy burr, whatever, you know, which is cool. So you kind of have a little more predictability there, which is kind of cool because you can kind of tweak it a little better in your mind. Like you're saying about the striped jungle, you can like, once you get an animal that looks like that, you know, if you breed it within that group of animals and your likelihood of getting more like that is definitely more, more so, you know, percentage is higher than it would be with natural variation, you know. Right. So that's cool. You know, it's cool about that whole vibe. Yeah, I'm curious to see what happens. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I love this time of year just to see pictures. You know, everybody knows all their pictures, one that I'll have. Oh, yeah. I love that, man. I love it. That's a cool thing. Yeah. It's because you see that you see some, you know, some new stuff popping out and some, you know, I don't know. It's just cool. Always a few things every year. Always a few things every year that make you go, whoa, wow, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. It is. It's always going to be like that. And that's, you know, the beauty of it. Again, living art, you know, that's how we're making it happen. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, I kind of, one of the things that I did do is, um, last year I bred, um, like an albino tag to, uh, zebra head albino and a caramel head albino. But one of the things that I don't know, one of the things I noticed is like with the, I hatched out some albino zebra jags. And it seems that like when you have an albino and a jag, they kind of like, I don't know. They were, they're even more jagged hearted than normal. Yeah. Oh God. So I just bred a straight albino to the caramel albino because I wanted, I didn't want the jag in there. And I know people will probably say, what are you doing? That's crazy. Why don't you want a sun glow jag or whatever they're called? You know, I don't know. You know, it's cool. But, you know, I'm afraid what's happening with some of the carpets is like you're getting, you know, there's like 45 different morphs for the same thing in ball python. You know, you look at one of them and there's like, oh, there's 45 different variants. It can just be a sibling to whatever the one you just saw. It's what it means like. Yeah. So it's kind of starting to get like that with carpets because like, you know, you're putting all these genetically, like, for me, like, it's not really, I mean, I know what's out there. You know, I keep them with it somewhat, but I'm not really well-bursed on it. So if I'm just scrolling down, like, I'm really a picture of the week and I see, you know, a granite IJ jag or a zebra, you know, jungle diamond jag or, you know, whatever, whatever, it all kind of starts looking the same after a while. You know, there's all this different stuff that you, I don't know what, you know, it's like just getting further and further away from the natural direction that the mutation would, you know, that the mutation, not the species that the mutation would go, you know. So it's kind of interesting to get all these different things, but they're all just kind of starting to get in a better sense of word, just dull, if that makes any sense. I don't know. To me, like, some of the damage jags, you know, going back ten years or, you know, like, wow, some of those are just killer, you know, and you would think some of these genetics when you pile them on top of each other, they would yield different results. I guess just there's so much natural variation within the carpet complex in general that, you know, it just ends up all over the board, you know. Right. Yeah, I think, I actually, the babies that I had from last year, I took out for a photo shoot tonight and earlier tonight and as I was going through, man, what a difference between just, I don't know, you got animals in the same clutch and there's just so many, so many different little things that you could probably take and, you know, selectively breed towards, just crazy stuff. I don't know if it's just, you don't notice it when you're opening up a tub and then, you know, I'm taking pictures and, you know, it's something that pops out to you. It's more something you see in the variation of the animal when you're looking at it, you know, within the clutch mate, for me, like, doesn't that let you know guinea line? I mean, there's not a line of carpets out there that you're going to get more variation out of a clutch. No, I think I have four females and they're all completely different. Oh my God, every single one, one striped, one looks like a jungle, one's like, you know, rusty color and, you know, it's crazy. And like I said, I've never out-crossed that line. I mean, the original male and female and then the little guy who was the male that I came back has sired all of that shit since then, you know. I'm curious to see what that happens with the more, like, next year I'm going to try to do something like that to see what happens with that. Yeah, I mean, you'll trip out because, I mean, they all hatch gray and brown and ugly or whatever, but after their first shed, you'll start looking around, man. That's a very good exercise in the caramel that I bought. You know what I mean? It's like, dude, that's the nicest event that I've ever seen. Holy crap, you know what I mean? It's like that happens every year. And you guys have seen this event once I post it up. You know, I post things all the time, you know. Yeah, to me, I mean, that's one of the best-looking eventment blood I've ever seen as far. I mean, it brings true within my line, you know, but I've never -- I've been so afraid to out-crossed it, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I would. All right. Yeah, so I've been so afraid to out-crossed the stuff because, you know, just -- and I've been, you know, people are screaming, "Oh, genetic, you know, whatever, drug defects, whatever." They do these things hatch 100%. You know, no kings, they feed. They're all 100% great, healthy babies. They -- it's funny, you know. It's like, and I'm down to probably -- I've got to be the F7 or F8 on some of these animals. Right. Right. Yeah. But I've been so afraid to out-cross them to anything just out of just saying to keep in the line what it is. And, you know, and even that is the biggest mystery as it is, you know, because as far as anybody knows, up until I posted that Steve Hammond price list on Morelia pythons a couple years ago, you know, the barkers were the first ones that had New Guinea's and, you know, the mid '90s, '94, '95, and then here it is, I got a price list from Hammond in '91 that has them listed with, you know, a description of black and silver animals. Right. That's how I get used to you. Right. I mean, so it makes me wonder, you know, like, did the barkers actually get these animals from him? You know, who were they surplus the stuff from and what are they to begin with? Because as far as I can tell from Steve Hammond, Steve Hammond said he got those animals from Hank Moll. So God knows what they are. Right. Great. I don't know what they are. You know what's crazy? You know what's crazy about that in particular? What I think about is that you got these animals. Now, I think, I think back, man, this is going back. This is probably when the Bush league first started up and you had posted pictures of that, you know, those animals that you had. And I was just blown away. I thought, I didn't really know much about carpet pythons at the time, but, you know, I was just getting into it. But just, I was like, oh my God, these things are just incredible, you know. So I bought some based on that, you know. And what's crazy is that if you could prove tomorrow that these were, I don't know. Let's say these are Cape York carpets. People would be knocking down your door to get them like, what the hell? These are Cape York carpets. I want some. I need a pair, you know. But now the animals there, and they're beautiful. And nobody, you know what I mean? They're like, guys. Yeah, no, I know. Let me get a zebra. You know what I mean? There's no hype. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? I mean, I don't know. I even, I can't remember who it was I was talking to the other day, but, um, somebody has said to me, um, about the African, I think it may have been Randy Midnight because I just recently reconnected with him. I haven't spoken with him in years. You know, got in touch with me through mutual friend. And he will say, man, he goes to a few genetically test those animals you got from me back into 70 years. I can guarantee you. It don't matter. It goes out. Every animal outside of Australia probably has that blood in it. And he's probably right. He's probably right. Right. Because there was so very, it was very few and far between it. And you look at how many animals, you know, all the different stuff that comes out of those animals. Even back then, from a line that I bought in 1988, I still get caramel types. That's not the jungle type animals that come out of those, even with the evidence. You know, same thing with them and the New Guinea's that I have, you know. They get this incredible wide variety of variation across all the boards, you know. And those animals have been here for, you know, one of the original, you know, lines brought into the country. Right. So you got to think. I mean, we were expert. We got all the cool stuff in the '80s when our dollar was worth more than the European money. All the cool stuff. That would be awesome. Seriously. Right. Right. I mean, as soon as the euro took over and that's where all the animals, that's why Europe started getting that. Because they could get more value out of the animals there because the traditional seemed worth more. That's not hard to figure out. It wasn't because there was connections. Dude, I remember standing, and we've talked about this before. I remember, I remember standing on a ripped house when Ryan got the call about buying head albinos from South Africa. Wow. Oh, wow. Here, I heard the conversation. It was like in 2000 or '99 somewhere in there. Right. Wow. He hung up the phone. He was like, "That was weird." I was like, "I don't know if that's a scam. That's when all that South African scamship was going on." You know, he's like, "Right. Thank you." You know. Some different guy was serious. He wanted a visible, but he said now the visible were not available. Only had to be available. They were coming out of South Africa, which, ironically, fast-forward seven years, I stood in the room and looked at 50 of those same animals. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So, yeah, it's kind of interesting. That's where eventually it came from, yeah. But, yeah, yeah, it's just funny how stuff goes with the genetics and everything, because, you know, there's a few and far between this stuff was brought in. I mean, yeah, I know there's new stuff coming in or whatever, but a lot of times things just get relabeled and rebranded. And all of a sudden people come up with a reason to have something and, you know, "Oh, if I could always laugh about the whole thing about..." And not mentioning any names, but, you know, when Morelia Pythons first started out, there was, you know, several people talked about, "Oh, there's no such thing. "You can't find paperwork for anything. And paperwork for anything. Oh, fine paperwork. "Man, I'd be willing to pay for paperwork." [Laughter] It's one of the breaks. [Laughter] Now, all of a sudden, there's paperwork from every Jim Bob Harry big, you know, from here to Texas, you know what I mean? Yeah. You know, so it's just kind of funny, you know, how things work out sometimes. Yeah. [Laughter] Yeah. It was nowhere to be found for 35 years, and all of a sudden, "Oh, within the last three years, all this new evidence has been uncovered and all this stuff has come out of the woodworks." [Laughter] Yeah. I think that was a pile that I've been looking for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just kind of silly. Anyway. Yeah. People are fine. But, you know, at the end of the day, it's the snake you keep in the box and, you know, you've got to enjoy it. And, you know, most people, when they do this stuff and they're getting into it, you know, we all kind of buy with our eyes. You know, we know what we like. Of course. Of course. Ooh, pretty. You know, I want that. And we even convince ourselves that somehow or another, you know, a super zebra is the king daddy, but somehow or another Everglades rat snake that blows it away is beneath you. You know, like, that one I've never figured out. I don't want to ever clean bread. I'll catch you one for ten bucks, dude. But, you know, I mean, I get it, you know, because we talk ourselves into this stuff, like, oh, just like you said about the macalot, that somebody has to carpet that looks like a macalot to eat a nice hot stings and sliced bread. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think it's going to be worse because it's a carpet and it looks different and that's what drives people toward it. Of course. But, you know, I think it's going to get even worse because it's like, we're going to keep getting to the, to certain points where different combinations are going to have the same result. Like, an albino super zebra is going to look the same as, like, an albino panther. So, it's like, it's just going to be right. And that's kind of what I was getting at by saying, even now, through some of the pictures, it's like, okay, those are different, but they look like they could be siblings, you know. Exactly. So, and it's like, okay, well, why is this one now more expensive than that one? No, it's a panther, but it's still, like, freaking thick. It's, yeah, it's whatever. So, I think. Have you guys, have you guys read stolen world? Yes. Yes. I have not. I am working on that. Okay. Yes. The world is cool because most people don't know that there were aponelli pythons on American soil. What? Yes. Yes. See, I didn't read the book and I didn't know. Rob, Rob Stone pointed that out to me. He told me, he kept telling me that I had to read that book. And, uh, if you, yeah. Yes. It's really crazy. They were left to freeze to death in the back of the Buick and then buried in the time barons, the next day to dispose of evidence. And ironically, it was the very ones that are in the reproductive python book. The two little babies hanging there. Well, I, I kind of want to quit on life right now. That's, that's. Dude, you're not serious. There's so many, there's so many clues in that book. It's Tom Kiogan and I were talking about it when the worker came over with those ring pythons where they tried to bust him in '92 or whatever it was that they told the show. Kiogan ended up with those ring pythons, him and Dick Gergen. Oh, wow. So, and it's funny, you know, like they're in a book because they had set up a steam trying to bust them, coming in with those animals and they had moved them too quickly. You know, like I said, in a hotel room somewhere, they didn't even make it to the show. They were hoping to bust them. Oh. But they didn't even make it to show. So yeah, that book is, it's got all kinds of like, if you can read between the lines, bro, you can put together a lot of shit. You know, and you can get, and they left, they left some aliases as far as like some of the names of people that were coming out. But if you can, you can, like I said, if you're, you can figure it out. There's enough information out there where you can put it together. Yeah. But it's, it's very interesting. I mean, they talked about smoking walmose back in little descent paint boxes, maybe walmose. Oh. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. People get killed in Madagascar for plow shirt tortoises and like just lunatic stuff. Oh, yeah. They just did, there was just a bus that happened at some airport where they were smuggling like pocket heels and water bottles or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. These shit still happened and it's horrible. But yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. They left them at, yeah, the guy got paranoid that he was one of Hank's friends because Hank would use all these people's scapegoats apparently, you know, according to the book. You know, and he felt, this guy felt like he was in trouble, like he was getting followed or whatever, which he was. And he ended up leaving the animals in the truck over, in the truck overnight. So they would kill them. They were free. So it was like, you know, minus whatever, five degrees up there. We didn't find parents and buried them, but they did dispose of evidence. Yeah. Really interesting. See, I just spoke, but then I'm going to get furious and ended up like throwing it. Like, you know, every other, every other chapter and be like screw this. Hey, you know, it's funny. You bring up. Do you think I know you just mentioned womas now, correct me if I'm wrong back in the day, weren't they like one of those animals that people were like, you know, googoo go go over because, you know, that. Nobody works with them, I guess. And they were big bucks. Somebody had them. Yeah, they're big bucks. The big thing is, you know, big bucks. You want it. Right. Right. So now there's not really any morphs with womas. You think that's why they're not as popular as. Oh, yeah. They died because there's no morphs. So there's an albino woma puffs up. Everybody in the brother. We want them. I mean, it's just the way it is, man. The carpet pipe. Nobody wanted them. That shows up. Oh, my God. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, it's human nature, man. You know, it's what it is. And that's cool. Yeah. I guess children's pythons are like that too. Like, I have a pair of children's pythons and I just appreciate them because they're just, I don't know. It's just, it's like a python in a tiny package. You know, it's like you look at it and you're like, I can't believe this is a python. And imagine those morphs make their way over to the United States for children's pythons. Done. Done. Yeah. I'm sure they will. Oh, yeah. Somebody has the wrong thing here. You know, something happened. Yeah. It's going to happen. I mean, I imagine children's pythons will take off much like a ball python because it's, well, you said it's a small python in a real time, a nice package. And it got bright and vibrant colors. You can keep a ton of them in the third view court being wracked. So, yeah. I imagine they're just going to take off. So, I don't know. Too funny. But, you know, but we're in exciting times here, you know, with the more stuff. I mean, you know, that's always going to be, you know, there's not too many species that we're going to discover that's going to be brought in and we're going to have the luck to be able to help out these species. I'm going to keep that. You know, not like it was back in the day. You just discover a subspecies of carpet pile. It's all the pretels, you know. I mean, you know, we may find something like that, but it's few and far between, you know. You have to kind of keep that going through the mutations and through the color and the paint jobs, you know. I mean, how else are you going to do it? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I get it. I understand it, but that's still you. It doesn't take away from what the animal actually really is. You know, to me, it just, it does take away from what the animal really is. To me, I want to see it in its natural form first. And then, yeah, I can see all that other stuff, too. I like the other stuff. I'm one of those, I'm one of those guys, I guess I'm the, the guy that sits on the fence. And I think this just goes to show my appreciation for carpet pythons in general, right? So I have like the, you know, the normal, what you would call dull carpet python in my collection that I'm just as, I go just as googoo gaga over as I do about a super caramel zebra jag that's in my collection as well. Yeah, sure. So it's kind of like, you know, I get the morph thing and I like the morph thing. And, you know, I'm having fun doing that kind of stuff, but it's also cool just to have a cool pair of IJs, you know, or, yeah. Inlands or whatever, you know. I think my female IJs locked up. Hope she is. Yeah. You probably have the nicest pair of IJs going in this year that I've seen. For sure. I mean, yeah, that, that was a ripper for sure. So well, fingers crossed probably end up hanging on all of them, raising them up, seeing kind of, you know what they do or not. Yeah, IJs are kind of hard because for the first, like, three sheds, they kind of just are red. Yeah, you know, you have to keep them a while. And like I said, I'll be over a year or two before I decide to pour out what they need and see what's going to go on with them. You know, that's all part of the fun is raising them up and see what they do. That's cool. I'm in over a year. You guys know that about me. I'm a order of the worst kind. Likewise. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So I wanted to ask you this question. I know on the show before you've talked about blackhead eggs and how difficult they are to get them to hatch out. Have you come up with any, I know at one point you were talking about, you know, different ways of like, of trying to be successful with them. Has any of those worked for you? Is there anything that you've changed or learned? All about the same. As far as like the techniques, what I have learned is the feeding of the adult plays a big part of it. As far as like what the babies do. And the big thing of blackheads has always been fully formed babies dead in the egg. And for a while I thought, okay, they're suffocating and maybe it's just getting too hot those last couple days. So I'll take the top off. So they've, you know, 60 or whatever before they've usually on 65, 64. So maybe on day 58 I'll take the top off. And still had some of that, you know. It wasn't until I got my animals, you know, slimmed down. Like some of the stuff, the adults that I had bought from other people, it took me, you know, literally getting them slimmed down and getting them, you know, before I was able to have like really high, you know, hatch rates with them. It took changing their diet. That's basically what I discovered for me. Really? And I think people in Australia are going to start to figure that out too. Because like I said this year, a lot of people are going to do that slugs or all the bad babies in the egg perfectly for them. What's happened is never happened before. Like I said, again, the industrial relation first thing that goes diet. So because people cut corners, you know, when they're raising these rodents, they want to, you know, get all this high fat, high protein stuff to raise them quicker. Because they got bigger demand, you know what I mean, so everything changes. So they're starting to run into some of those same problems. Now, after, you know, because those guys, they've only been, they haven't been allowed to actually keep these things legally in the box for maybe 12 years, 14 years, something like that. And it was, we couldn't keep them, so unless you had a special life, you know, permit for it, that was huge opportunity. So have you ever done anything with supplementation? Well, you know, I've had fish for, you know, I do that. I do chicken parts. I do that type of thing. But honestly, I just, I found just that if I just feed small rats, like every few days, that seems to work. So then, you know, they may get fish as a treat one day. If the mullet are running, and I happen to have a run out of, you know, trying to catch some mullet and bring them in to fly free. So I'm going to wash them and suck, you know, and feed, you know, to do that. But those are free free. But, you know, that's more of a treat than anything. I still keep the rodents as a mainstay. But it's just, I don't give them large rodents just because they can eat a large rodent. They're not designed for it. And there's another thing I've noticed about the baby's hatching is, like, I'm sure you guys have seen pictures of baby blackheads where they've hatched, where they're so full of yolk that, like, I mean, I've literally had some at the beginning days that were so full of yolk that they couldn't crawl away. That animal would never make it in the wild. That does not happen in the wild. So something dietary is happening there, you know, that's going on with these animals during the production of what's, you know, being eaten in the egg. And it's just not good for this particular animal, you know. So I think that tapering all that stuff back, and now all my babies kind of hatch like normal little baby snakes. They don't have these bloated bellies and stuff, you know. They hatch much, much better, and they get out of the egg much quicker. Just like some of them would sit in there and they'd have these huge, yolk, you know, sacks and they were still, they were hatched, you know, and they were ready to go. But they still had four days of, you know, soaking up yolk to do before they come out. Right. I don't get that anymore, you know, like the first one, the pip, a couple more pips, they'll come out, and then they're ready, you know, within a day or two, they're all out. And that never happened before with me, you know. So it's all in the feeding with blackheads, for me, I've found. Oh, okay. Which, you know, and that's interesting. It's an interesting thing to look at, because I think, you know, people with King Cogres as well, you know, if they look at the diet a little more, you know, people may be a little more successful with those guys. But any, you know, animal that is high reptiles, is there, I'm getting all that fat content, indigo snakes, people will complain about indigo snakes doing the same thing. You know, so anything else? Do you see this? Do you see the same thing with walnut pythons? No. Yeah. Anything else? The walnuts, they seem to handle, but again, like a walnut, I mean, I've seen some big walnuts, you know, but you're not, once you get up to that large rat territory, like these retired breeders that people sell off that have been, you know, fed this crap their entire life. You know, you're a rookie, you know. So, I just kind of look at it like the walnuts never really get a chance to be overfed, really. You can raise a walnut pretty quick, and it's going to get four or five feet, and it's kind of going to do a thing. It's like, you know, with a small rat medium rat, that's good for a walnut. Blackheads, though, if you feed them, they'll grow. You know, they really don't have to have that top out. I'd imagine that. Yeah. I mean, like, with walnuts, they kind of, you know, if you can feed them a lot, they'll grow and they'll get big, but, you know, they never get to the point where you're feeding, like, large rats or something like that, you know. Right. Which with the blackhead, I think that's what makes the difference, because blackheads can eat large rats, and extra large rats, and rabbits, and, you know, like, they get a good size if you let them. You know, I just simply don't mind getting that big, because I know that they wouldn't, they wouldn't be that size in a while, you know. Right. I try to just keep them playing with Slender, and even for my females, you know, if she lays seven eggs, that's good for me, because if I have, you know, this year, six blackhead clutches this year. And, you know, what I do with 15, you know, eggs, a clutch out of that many, you know, so for me to get six or seven eggs, that's fine. I'm cool with that, you know. What's your most anticipated clutch for blackheads this year? Oh, God, all of them, man. Oh, here comes a train. Let me get loud. Don't make me too mad. Well, it's night outside. Oh, my God, that's loud. It's night outside, so I thought I'd come out. All of them, kind of. To be honest, man, I mean, I had the Atlantic clutch, what I call tangerine green clutch, real high orange, kind of hypoish animals. Western pen-striked animals, it's two really nice pen-striked animals that put together that love the real killer. The tiger animals. That's it, really. I mean, you know, all of this stuff's all in the incubator. I had my first clutch hatch already this last week. And then from here on out, I think at the end of the month, I get some egg hatching and then a couple more clutches. I've got the jungle carpet clutches on the ground, and hopefully an eye date clutch should be coming, and that's it. So, we'll see. You know, I never, you know me, and I don't like to count my chickens or count my snakes before the hatch. We'll see. But right now, everything looks good. You know, I'm just going to make your draw. Yeah. You never know that. You never know that. You never know that. I mean, you have the blackest season earlier than the Morelia guys. Like, are you on pace too? Are they breeding before your carbon python or around the same time? Around the same time. I'm earlier than most people because I'm putting, I kind of do, like some people that I know at least down here in Florida because it warms up in January. I mean, we start getting warm weather like right in January. So, as soon as that, that bump happens down here, because like it'll literally be 80 degrees, 85 degrees. The snakes can sense that here. So, for me, in the room that I'm in, it's kind of environmentally sensitive, so to speak. Damn, that was weird. So, you know, as soon as that warm up happens, it might be like, bam, bam, bam, just like clockwork. Other people, you know, around the country, like it takes a little while. March or April, you know, for it to really start warming up the triggers and stuff. So, I don't mind being early like that because, I mean, I get myself out quicker than most people. Even Tom, I run about a month earlier than Tom usually. If he waits, he'll cool, and then he'll put his animals together. I put him animals together and cool them together. Yeah. Okay. And they're breeding the mean for a log from Halloween. They're breeding their lots of Halloween. So, let's see our relations. Generally have us remaining in January, February, firstly February, just like that. But, you know, that's, again, that's just me, scheduling. You guys up north probably go later just because you don't get the bump and temps like we do down here. No, we do not. I'm sure. Yeah. And the thing is, it's already probably 15 times this year. Yeah. It's really funny. I'm on your website. It's, I'll throw it out there. In case people want to go check it out. Derek Rowdy's blackheads. BlackheadedPythons.com. And I'm looking at your tomb robots. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Right? I told you, man. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me those are some of the best ones you've ever seen. I mean, come on, man. That's ridiculous. Wow. I can't wait. And now he's been trying, dude. It was funny because the guy Paul, he said that female down and he's, you know, it's like, man, if he's breeding, if he's breeding, he's trying. Man, like, he's breeding her head. He's breeding his, like, her ear. He's breeding, like, under her teeth. He's the moron. Yeah. You know, dude, I took a picture of her one day. I pulled her out and I took a picture of her and said to him and, like, it looks like somebody's sprinkled powder sugar all over her. Oh, man. And I said, somewhere there's a movie title in this picture. (laughter) As far as whether, I never actually saw them breeding or lock up or anything, so I don't know. The one female's a little bit young, but the other one is good to go. And I didn't actually see anything, but she's acting weird, too. She's in her box. (unintelligible) Who knows? You might get lucky. What a cool, what a cool head pattern that this goddamn, that is badass. I don't know how to explain it. You got to go check it out. Yeah. Oh, hang on. Let me say goodbye to hear my band leaving now. I forgot. They were in the jam room. Hold on for a minute. Let me say goodbye to this guy. Let me say goodbye. Yeah. Oh, and I don't know if you've seen pictures of these, but you definitely heard of that. (laughter) Oh, that's fine. Cool. Sorry. (unintelligible) Yeah. But I might end up getting doodles now is what you're telling me, right? Yeah. I mean, they're neat. I've always been... I've always... I know... I've almost liked this. They're huge. They're not, right? They're not. Well, they can be. I mean, I've seen them nine feet, you know, but... Yeah, I do. They're five feet. They're five foot comfortable, you know. I don't think you've got to raise them, play super, super big. You know, I'm looking at the full body shot. It almost has like an Indian python feel on the body. Like the look and the colors and the, you know... Oh, man. But that head pattern is just wild. That is beautiful. Indian python with the blood almost kind of like... Yeah. Mmm. Wow. Crazy. Cross. Yeah, they're neat, man. Like I said, hopefully something will happen. But, you know, I almost put the clutch with Paul and then we probably end up keeping all those... Yeah, you're going to hoard all that. Yeah. Don't play with it. You know? Yeah. Just like, you know, you can't put them out there and then not know what the hell's going on with it. Because that male was something special. I mean, there's something going on there for sure. Right. You know, genetically, you know, I don't know. I don't necessarily think it's a mutation or anything like that. But man, his genes need to go into other animals for sure. So, even just the line of him would be freaking awesome, so... Is there a... There was a guy in North Florida here and we don't know where his animals actually came from, but his name was Tom Tenson. And he passed away. He did, like, hognose snakes. He passed away kind of early, actually. But he had these animals. He had one pair or two pair and they weren't very... I mean, the female was really, really nice. They weren't, like, absolutely spectacular. But, man, the babies were. And this guy, Paul, has most all the babies that can be tracked down, at least, that he knows that where actually came from that guy. And he's like, "Wow." Or it's my male. So... And he's got ones that are, like, Atlantic. And, I mean, like, stuff that would blow your mind, man. Like, "What the hell? What are you waiting on? I'll be putting this stuff out there." He's like, "Well, I haven't proven it out." And, you know, I don't know if it's anything yet. And I was like, "Still." And people need to see this crap, man. That's cool. Imagine what an Atlantic do more so it looks like. Holy crap. That would look freaky. Cool, gross, sick. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, and again, we're sitting here talking about morph, you know. Yeah. Again, and now's when people care about doin' mobile. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. I mean, they're pretty on their own, but you can imagine stuff, you know what I mean? And that's, like, the beauty of them again. It's like, you can imagine what an Atlantic would look like. And, "Oh my God, there it is. Holy crap. Where did that come from?" You know, it's like... It's almost kind of like if you think about it and if you put it into... If you just kind of put it out there into the world, like, it just kind of happens, you know? All right. The perfect example of that is the tiger... The tiger, uh, blackheads that I have. I saw that picture in the Barker's book, and I told Hallie once, "Man, I'd love to hatch one of these things." And a few years later, guess what, hatch one. There you go. Sometimes you just got to put it out there. Yeah. Yeah. But then you got to not be afraid to hatch for it. Yeah. Yeah. Life kind of has a weird way of working like that if you're in tune enough to figure... Kind of figure that stuff out, you know? Sure. Yeah. That's another cool look. I really dig the look of those tiger, blackheads. Are they neat and cool? Yeah. You're taking the coolest thing about the blackhead and just exaggerating it. You know, it's just like... You've got to be kidding me. Hold on. Uh-oh. Oh no. I got 10% battery life left, and I do not think I have my name, charger. Oh no. Where are we? Where are we? Time marks. Well, we have about, uh, what, 10 minutes, maybe left, so... Okay. Well, if I lose you guys, I'm sorry. You know, I always love being on here and chatting back. It's okay. Yeah, absolutely. It's my favorite blackhead in the business. Always fun. You guys and CK over there, BLBC man. If you guys only have a bit of time and cool thing. Thank you, sir. Well, throw out, uh, just in case we do lose you, throw out anything you want to throw out, uh, you know... Do it now, as well. Yeah. ...going on. No props to you guys, mostly if you have anything. You know, I'll be posting pictures and putting shit up, you know? So you guys, uh, see from me here. That's a couple months for sure, you know? Getting all this stuff out and just, you know, always thanks to you guys and, you know, keep us posted what's going on in your world too. 'Cause, uh, it's all fun and games, you know? I'd love to be in all the stuff. It's cool. You know? Yeah, definitely. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I wouldn't be back with like-minded people. Owen, uh, Owen never got to talk about what he's got going on, but I'm pretty happy that he's got something going on because he moved recently and, uh... Brandon, he wasn't gonna hatch anything. Owen, you're gonna get shit, yeah. Yeah. I-I planned it perfectly. I was gonna move in spring and then I fucked it up. So, I ended up having, uh, ended up moving in December. So, and Eric was, like, Eric helped me move the animals and I sort of got- I thought I was gonna have to like slap him and tell him to calm down because he was freaking out more than I was and we're moving my animals. So, it's like- Oh, man. You're sure, man? I'm like, are you sure? Eric, just to give you- just to give you an idea of what was going on. It was terrible. It was terrible. It was an outside. What was it? Twenty degrees outside? Oh, man. I didn't do it first. That's good, dude. All right? Yeah, I couldn't imagine. I was- I was the dumbest idiot around. All right? So, it was one of those things where, you know, we're unloading and packing up things. And I had to send Eric home because it was snowing. And it was like, I want you to get out of here before, you know, you'd- Oh, yeah. It snowed that night. Yeah, I forgot. No shit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'll talk to my plan. So... His friend, uh, his friend Andrew, um, his truck, uh, we lost him. We lost him. A little Derek. Yeah, we lost him. He fell off. I was just going to say, uh, um, what do you call it? Uh, Andrew's truck was, um, like 95 degrees in that thing. Oh, yeah. We couldn't turn it off. So, it's like you would go in there. You're like, "Oh, my God." Oh, my God. Yeah. And it was snow on everything else, but his truck was like perfect. Because every time it melted, it melted immediately. Oh. Yeah. And it was funny because you guys left it and me and I moved back and forth for like three in the morning, getting the rest of the ch- the rest of the shit up here. So, it was terrible. Like, I didn't, I didn't actually sleep. I think maybe I came home past after like a half hour that Andrew came over and we were at it again. So, um, but in case Derek is listening, what I got it going on over here is I have a clutch of red tiger jag crosses, red tiger. It's my second generation red tiger jag echo. Um, then I have the Amiki bear. Also, I have my caramel jag bred to my high contrast Newblen tiger female. So, I'm going to have high con caramel tiger jags. That should be cool. That's what we got now. And then the pre-lay sheds that happened is my IJ shed. I'm calling it a pre-lay because I'm not giving up gamut. I'm going to be a very happy man and I'll be screaming that I told you so to a lot of people or I'll just be very quiet. Or I'm going to get a granite male. Oh, yeah. A granite male will show up on your butt door sets. So, and then the other thing is my brattle females. One female sparrow, she just had her pre-lay shed and she looks huge. And then my Jaguar. Uh, my MBB high con Jaguar. Oh, Iris had her pre-lay shed and she was bred to be the jag that I got from you. So, uh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. Also, the Jamaican red mountain bow, it looks like she's going to explode in a moment. I don't know what's going on there. And the Amazon tree bow is a breeding constantly. Uh, I did slug out on one mac-lot female this year, but I have my other mac. I have another mac-lot female alone and friend. And I don't know of anything going on in there, but we'll see. Um, my tan and bar female also might be gravid. I don't know. Uh, and then I have a jungle female that's at a friend's place breeding the zebra. No idea what's going on with that female and the corn snakes are being corn snakes. So I'm pretty sure I covered everything is breeding into, oh, and the super caramel jag female. The caramel female is going to crop another clutch of super caramel jag at some point. So I think that. Yeah, I'm kind of, um, I did that same pairing. And I, I, for some reason, I thought that you weren't doing it. I will be here. So I did it. I was like competition. Yeah. I am. Mm. I should have did some Franken snakes pairing. You did. Yeah. No, I should have it, you know, you should have. Should have what it could have, but it's, it's one of the things where I was even going to see. I wasn't going to breed me this year. I was not going to breed her this year because I wanted her to take the year off. So that I could bring her with my exam. Jack next year. Right. Start getting the double head stuff or start getting the head stuff going. But I was so nervous after we did the move that I wasn't going to get anything that I ended up just like freaking out and putting my caramel jag in there. And of course, like, before I could even come to my dentist and be like, you know what, they're going to actually be fine. I came back down. There's like an hour later. They were locked up. I'm like, well, that's done now. Can't take that back. So. Right. Yep. Yeah. Well, it's cool. Yeah. It's a cool. You know, next year, I hope to see what happens when you do, I think it's been done. I think Ed Lillie's done this, but I'm curious to see what happens with caramel and red, the red. The red stuff. And I know that whole thing of you're not going to be able to tell what's what. Yeah. But you know, if we keep. Yeah. If you keep that thinking, then you'll never know. You know what I mean? Exactly. Exactly. And you know what? Like, the female that I bred to my caramel jag this year, she's a icon. Failing line tiger female. And she had a clutch this year, but 2014 plus she had was with my red tiger female. And I got a bunch of red tigers and I got a bunch of like orange yellow tigers. So it's like, I got a split between the two. So I want to say that if you threw caramel in the mix, it would kind of do the same thing you'd have. You have your reds and you have your caramels. The problem is, is that you have to wait until you can tell which ones are reds and which ones are caramels because baby caramels are red. So. Right. Yeah. I don't think it would be an issue. I think the bitches is that you'd have to hold on to them until you could figure out who's who. What's what? Which, which with me is not an issue. So. You know what I mean? That's not a problem. Of you and your horse. That's why it's like I did the same pair, Owen did. Yeah, but Owen's going to sell his. I mean, Eric. It's not really. I do. Next year after I, if I was going to breed Venus next year, then I'd be in direct competition with you because it takes you a year to decide to let things go. So. Yeah. Well, you know what? I think that I find. That. If you can wait, I probably shouldn't tell my secret, but well, it's not like it's a secret, but I guess my mindset is that. Yeah. If I hold on to them for the year. Like I just did a photo shoot tonight. Going through what I'm going to get rid, you know, like what am I going to put up to be available and whatnot. And what a difference, man. Like it's so much easier to sell a snake that's that's a year old that has color. You know what I mean? And like, you know, it's such a huge difference. That's the way it goes. I mean, I kept bringing the same couple tigers to Hamburg and stuff like that. And I did a photo shoot with them about a month ago. And they're all gone now. Also, because they all hit their stride and all got their color and they all went like crazy. I mean, they went and they're gone. I have one more left. And then I have another clutch of tigers that I've been kind of slow growing to kind of take their place because I wasn't sure what I was getting this year. Right. Now that I have the eggs in the incubator, I'm starting to feed them up a little bit more so they can get thighs and get their color in. And this way they can go to. Yeah, they have to hit a certain mark. I think it's like almost it's like you said. Some in my opinion, some will sell while they're growing up. But once they hit a year old, that's when they leave. I mean, that's when that's when there's like a mass exit. That's where everybody goes quickly. Yeah. When it comes down to that stuff. I mean, we've sold so many. I haven't updated the website because I just, whatever. And so it's like, well, I'll be with that later. But it's like that's the way it goes. It's even worse jungle carpet python. You know, some people will buy baby jungles fresh out of the egg. Yeah, because they want the pairing or they're there. Exactly. Or they know from watching siblings of this pairing that, you know, there's not a bad one in it, even then. Even then. Most people jungle carpets will wait. They will buy their time till those animals are getting closer to a year old. They'll pay money in reserving animals, but they'll wait. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I don't know. It's, it's, it's cool for sure. You know, you just, you got me thinking and I forgot to bring this up. But you were just talking about tigers. And this year, I have a lot of cool tiger stuff that that I'm very excited about. Give me, you should give me one of your tiger head albinos. Give it to me. Give it to me. Dude, I just did a, I just did a photo tonight. And I took a photo with them together because they both just shed. Oh my God. Those things are sick. Now, you think, you know, you, you, you bit me right in the fricking, because you were like, I'm going to bring this. I'm like, Eric won't get stripes on his old, his head tiger. It'll be one of those things that'll be, son of a bitch. They all came out. What the hell kind of bullshit is this? So now I'm like, you don't want it. It's a mud. It's a Darwin coastal. You want albino tigers though? I do want albino tigers. So, when they, when these finally breed, I'm going to put, I'll post up tonight. I'll post it up. I got a, I got, I took a picture of them together and then I took a picture of them separate. But I was kind of inspired because Zach was posting up his future pairing, his coastals. You know, it's got this spotted looking coastals, which is kind of cool. He has enough for sale and people aren't going nuts about it, which is kind of crazy. But I don't know. Anyway, the, so I took a picture of them. Dude, I'm telling you, man, when honestly, just even them not even being albino, it just doesn't even care. I mean, when they are albino, it's going to be crazy. But, but that mix of, I guess, that little bit of Darwin blood that's in there is like. Oh my gosh. It's just a few. I'm really kind of hoping that you, that, that pairing I did with the caramel jag and the tiger yields some good striped caramel tigers. Because I want a tiger with the colors of my super caramel jag. Like I want that with organized stripedness. So I'm just like, if there are caramel tigers that have good color and good striping, they're not leaving. They're not, I will let everybody look at them, but they're not going anywhere. So, you know, we'll be selfish here for a while. Right. And then the other thing is just, you know, reducing the, the, getting things going and getting things ready for, you know, in the next couple of years, my super caramel sergeants are getting, my female super caramel whole bags are going to start getting ready to go. And it's like, I want to have a good idea of what the hell I'm doing with them when they get ready to breed. So. Right. Yeah. But then my albino is going to get older and my good friend is going to send me an albino, a tiger head albino. He's just going to give it to me. Because he's back to the guy. Yeah. No. I'm going to keep trying. Tell me who that guy is. No, who's that? Well, I'll be repeating. Well, hopefully next year, when I repeat that pairing, because that was the one thing that everybody wanted. You know, they all wanted in on that. And I don't think that, I think that's one of those things where using those specific animals is what gives you those results. So, you know, I don't know if you'll be able to repeat it so much with if I use different animals or somebody like. I think that would be the one clutch that I would say that, you know, you would want from that pairing. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how else to explain it. I'm not trying to sound cocky or not them, but, you know, if, if it were me, I would be looking for that specific pairing. And, yeah, you'll probably get tiger, head albinos from other people, but I don't know if they'll be quite the same. Have you seen what some people pass off as a tiger recently? I mean, I saw a few things on King Snake and Fauna where they're like, this is a caramel tiger or this is a tiger head albino. And it's like, there's barely any stripe. I mean, like, I would call that just to go. I mean, yes, it all hardens back to that bullshit with the lesser tigers where it's like, this was a tiger sibling. Okay, it's a coastal and, you know, it may have some genetic predisposition to, you know, pop out some stripes, but you can't advertise it as a tiger. And that's the way it goes. I think, I think that, here's how I look at it with the tiger is that you have, if it comes from that lineage, I think that you can call it a tiger if it's a striped animal. I think if it's not striped, what I call it is a tiger lying coastal, you know what I mean? I would do that. I would go with that, yes. I have some red tigers that I got from Balen that were the 07 red tigers and... Yeah, the first breeding, they weren't, they were good. I mean, I couldn't make those amount of money to get the really good stripe on. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, I kind of got the end of the clutch, you know what I mean? So, this striping on the ones that I got isn't the best. I think it would pass as a tiger still, but it's probably... I think it should be graded almost, you know what I mean? Like an A grade would be... A tiger, yeah. And a B grade would be like, if you kind of like got maybe side portholes and a little bit of a zig zaggy pattern. Yeah, you know what I mean? And then the CC grade would be like, okay, well, there's tiger genetics floating here. Because that's kind of the problem. Yeah. You know, you kind of have that animal that has that genetics inside of it, and probably if you breed it with the right animal, you'd be able to unlock that. Like, because... I can guarantee that. I can tell you that immensely, because Trinity is a tiger, whatever the hell you want to call her, from Ted Thompson. And then breeding her with the jag, with Talon, produced Echo. Right. And then breeding her with Bailon's original Tiger line male, nothing but stripes. Nothing, not a single, like I think it maybe had two that came out without stripes. That was it. So I can definitely tell you, the genetics is there. So it's like, I know some people are using it as an easy way to tell people what the hell's in it. So... Yeah, that's the other thing. Well, yeah, because I really, when I bred my albino to that tiger, I never in a million years thought that I would get the striping that I did, because the albino is banded. It's banded, you know? So that just goes to show me how strong now, even though the female has a nice stripe down her back, she has port holes on the side. So it's kind of like, well, she's not the best striped example, but she definitely has the color, you know? So it's like, okay. And then when I put it with the albino, it's like, man, I really hope that I get some really nice striping out of this. And, like I said, I was really pleasantly surprised of the striping in that clutch. It was just amazing. I'm just like, it's not fair. I mean, first breeding stripes, go to hell. Fuck you. Fuck you, Eric. I got to do my first breeding in caramel tigers, they all suck. Except the one I got. No, you see, the thing is you got to be able to maintain them out the gorgeous color. And I had to run with, like, the pattern. I wanted an animal where both those two were in one thing, and I didn't get it. So, right. He's pretty, pretty, pretty for sure. Yeah, I'm going to line up when you breed her to. I'll give you the, uh, the seller, seller of the, since you sold her to me, you get the, you know, what we call it, the seller's remorse clause that you. Yeah, the seller's remorse discount. Oh, joy. Good times. All right. Let's wrap this up and get out. Let's see. We have the Northeast carpet fest is coming up. We have about a month away. Oh, my God. Yeah. What do we got? 25 days. So it's coming up. Yep. May 30th. Make plans. If you need help, let us know if you have questions. Let me know. If we're going to, well, I say, you and I, you and I'll get together tomorrow and we'll get stuff going for the auction stuff like that. Get that moving. Yeah, that'll be up. Yeah, we have a few things already. So we have a candro from Buddy Bishemi and I think we have. Oh, that candro is sweet, man. It's gorgeous. Oh, man. Oh, it's so pretty. And it's, I forget the pairing, but. Buddy, this is, this is no slouch. Condro. This is not like. No, out of some. In somewhere, this is he bred this thing. This is from his stock and it's not from from some throwaway pair. Like it's legitimate and it could turn out to be spectacular. And I'm going to be bidding on it. And I know, I don't know about you, but I'm going to be doing that. So. And I think we're getting a custom made airbrush t-shirt from Doug. Yeah. So that one, that's another one. I'm going to be giving a $200 voucher to Rogue. You're going to be giving a $3,000 voucher to E.B. Morelia. Not quite 3,000, but. I'm making up the thing. Yeah, I'm in charge here. Yeah. All right. I refuse to nod on that statement. No. We'll be doing that. I know Matt Minutola is donating a cage and it's not just like a cage. I mean, like it is an arboreal set up that he has a panel like purchase. It's all dressed to the nine. So. So if you get the Condro from buddy, you get to set up. From that. Oh my God. Boom. You're ready to go. Yeah. Plus he's donating. He's going to be putting up a Borneo. Well, you'll bid him. You'll buy the Borneo. No, I can't be. I can't buy Borneo. It's like I buy carpets. I have to be very particular with what I buy as far as that goes. Right, right, right, right, okay. But if you are interested, if you were interested in Borneo or short tails, you know, that would be. The clutch man. This last week has been that was pretty open. Oh my God. That's like pretty. Yeah. If you have a chance to check it out, Matt Minutola, go check out Philly her. His Facebook page, you'll be able to see what we're talking about. He posted it up. It's probably on the, I think his blood python group page and short tail family. It's all in there, but probably the best is to go to his, to his Facebook page. It's crazy. It's that ocelot. Ocelot. Oh my God. Just nuts. Yeah. Check it out. So yeah, we got the carpet fest coming up. If you are interested in going to Clyde peeling's reptile land on the following day, please get in touch with us. We're going to cut that off at some point to where where this is the group and that's who's going. So, I mean, you're more than welcome to go by yourself. But what we're doing is kind of the back behind the stage behind the, behind the scenes thing. I'm trying to see if maybe I could get somebody from there to come on the show. Maybe the week before that that would be cool to have them come on and maybe talk a little bit about what they got. It's a really cool place if you've never been there. I mean, it wouldn't be, I guess, I don't know, I wouldn't travel across state to go and see it. But if you're like in the area, it's definitely something that you want to check out. I mean, if you're into reptiles, it's kind of a kind of a place to go. And I know since I've been there, they've remodeled it. So, I'm curious to see what they got going on. So, yeah, we got all that going on. Next week we have Terrell's going to be coming on. He's going to be talking about, he's one of those guys. He seems like he's a real positive guy. He's been helping out Mariah Python radio. He's running the Southwest Carpet Fest. He's going to talk a little bit about that. He dabbles in carpets and in bloods. So, he's kind of got both going on. So, yeah, we're just going to talk to him and see what he's got going on. What's happening for him? A designer exotics. So, look forward to that. So, as far as us, Mariah Python radio.com. If you want to send us an email, comment, suggestion. I'm sorry that I've really kind of been slacking with. I have people sending me suggestions for shows. And, man, I've just been so busy that it's kind of like I'm flying by the seat of my pants with. I might start delegating this to Owen. I don't know. But I've been like, you know, it's just so much going on. It's a busy time for the reptile stuff. And also, I imagine your work's got to be picking up because of, you know, people bopping around for barbecues and all that fun stuff. Well, not only that, we're about to open another store and that's always... See, even work. That's always a very stressful time, for sure. So, you know, I know I've talked to people about doing a super dwarf, a dwarf retic show and... Why? Well, yeah, I know, right? They were over... And I don't know. I think it would be cool to talk to them and see what they got going. But they do other stuff, too. But we've always had people that really don't talk about the dwarf and the super dwarf stuff. So, I don't know. There's a... I don't know, big ones. Yeah. There's a couple other things. And I've really got to get a blood python show lined up because... I don't know if it was just lawn or if it was the fact that we did bloods. But man, that show got a lot of attention. So, if you're yearning for a blood short tail show, you know, I've been trying... I wanted to get Matt back on and do a round table, but I was trying to hold off until he's got more stuff hatching out. Right. You know, you can promote that a little bit more, but you've got to line somebody up. Yeah. So, Matt, see if we've got to step up or we're going to have to kick him to the curb. Sorry, Matt. Yeah. I'm going to pull the bow of Rita again in a minute. Don't be quiet. Yeah. You better be quiet. Yeah. So, yeah, if you have... I know I've had people send suggestions. I know some people... They wanted to hear Candoia, you know, which is... Which is the Hyper Boas and stuff, which is kind of an obscure show. But, you know, every once in a while, we do those outside the box shows. I'm looking to get Paul Harris to come back on. We've talked about that. So, probably more than likely he'll be coming back. You know, I'm sure there's some sort of carpet people to track down. Because we had to have the meeting before the show where it's like, this is what we're not allowed to talk about. Yeah, don't talk about that. Don't talk about this. Hey, if you say this, Owen, you're going to be immediately on... You're dead. You're dead, man. I'm like, "You're dead, man." I don't talk. All right. Sorry. So, there you go. You can like our Facebook page, or you can follow us on Twitter. That's probably our best social media stuff that we got going on as far as Mariah, Python, and radio. You know, everything about Carpafest. If you want more info, and eventually, like I said, this week we'll get the auction stuff up and running. If you are interested in donating something, get in touch with me or Owen through Facebook. I'm going to need a picture or a description or something so that I can post it up to the website so people can go and check it out. Because we are... I think we've decided that we're going to go live for a week before Carpafest. That way people that are not able to attend Carpafest have a chance to bid on the animal, or the equipment, or whatever it is. So, you can check out the website Carpafest. homestead.com. The Facebook page is pretty much... I've put every Carpafest. There's a southwest, southeast, northeast, northwest. And they're all over there, so they're updating that page there. So, you can go to Carpafest, the Facebook page, and get all the updates from the various different chapters of the Carpafest, which is cool to say. And t-shirts and stuff, because I know that the southwest has their t-shirt up and running. That's $20 for a booster for their t-shirt, which is a pretty cool design. And then we have our relaunches up and running still, so it did not get a northeast Carpafest t-shirt. The first time, go over, grab one now. That booster will only be open for a few more days. And I was going to talk to them because, apparently, we can do international shipping now. I know. So, apparently, I had to just click a button. So, it's way international. Shut up. Shut up. It happened recently. Shut up for you. Goddamn it! I can't afford to have joined anything. Shut up. Reminds. Hang on. I'll just get it. So, we can do that. If you are international, we can always have that accommodated for that. So, yeah. Definitely go grab it. And then, as far as me, ebmerly.com, check out the Facebook page. I'm actually almost up to 1,000 likes on that page, which is awesome. So, thank you everybody out there that's supporting me. I didn't go and buy them. They're not some little Indonesian kid. Put shoes together or something like that. I mean, I signed your own Indonesian children, so. Yeah. No, they're legitimate things. Yeah. They're more popular than me. So... I'm sorry. I said, what did I say? 2,000? I mean, 1,200. Sorry. I got a little excited. A little carried away. Yeah. I fast-forwarded 5, everybody's going to be like, "Hey." He says he's close to 2,000. He might want to get out of his calculator. Yeah. Good Lord. He's close to 2,000. Then, he's sure already dropped back down to 1,200. It didn't happen, man. Remember that day? I was like, "Oh, look, I had a thousand." Ten people dislike the page. I was like, "Damn it, people dislike you." God damn it, Owen. I'm like, "I didn't do it." Yeah. I'm going to be putting up some animals. Available at shipping time now. Good shipping weather. So, look for that. You can check out the... I have the store that's either on my Facebook page, or you can go to the website and you'll see what's available there. I'm sure at the next Hamburg show will be there. Not be there, but I'll be able to drop off animals for you. If you like, standing at Owen's table. If Owen is at Owen's table, okay, hold on. Good point. Good point. Yeah, that's all I got. So, if you want to get in contact with me, Eric@ebimarae.com. Go ahead, Owen. So, what we have is we are running low on babies. I probably have five co-stools and about six rentals left, and then we are tapped out of babies for 2014. For 2015, we have two clutches on the ground, and that's it. We're waiting on a few others, so stand by for looking for things. If you want to drop me a line, if you're interested in one of the pairings or one of the animals, or you're interested to see what we might have cooking, you can drop us an email at roguereptiles.com. You can check it out, and then you can hit me up through there via contact, or you can go to our Facebook page and just drop me a private message there. Always fun with that. As far as animals were sailed, definitely check with me because I believe the Facebook page and the website are both out of date because we have a lot of babies leave. So, we'll see about that one. You definitely go over and give us a like on the Facebook page too. As far as shows, we don't have anything planned. I will be attempting to have a great show this Saturday, but I'm just going to pick up food, so if you do want to buy an animal, I can definitely bring it to you. That's all I got for me, and what we'll say is thanks everybody for listening, and we're going to check up with you guys all next week for some more Muralia Python radio. Good night. Hey, Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL, whereas a reptile breeder and the owner of Projox. I've been hurtin' since I was a boy, and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breathing and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Marklin and I create the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site bringing you the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of the latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news, photos and links, so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. 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