Morelia Python Radio

Jay Mclear from Best Boids joins us for some carpet python talk.

In this episode we are joined by Jay Mclear from Best Boids and we will be talking carpet pythons. Jay has some very exciting projects in the world of carpet pythons that we will be discussing. He is working on a project that he had come from a coastal carpet that he believes to be a possible new morph.. Check out his website http://bestboids.com/ and follow him on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Best-Boids/351496674995950

Duration:: 2h 41m
Broadcast on:: 01 Apr 2015
Audio Format:: other

Hey Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL or as a reptile breeder and the owner of Pro Dzox. I've been hurtful since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breeding and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist which is why my partner Rob and Marklin and I create the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of the latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news, photos and links so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. The reptile report offers powerful brandy and marketing exposure for your business and the best part is it's free. If you're a buyer or breeder you got to check out the reptile report marketplace. The marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling destination full of features to help put you in touch with the perfect deal. Find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system, search by sex, weights, morph or other keywords and use our buy-it-now option to buy that animal right now. Go to marketplace.the reptilereport.com and register your account for free. Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptiles account to earn free tokens with each shipping label you book. Use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum mad. It also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page. Buy or not selling. You ship your reptiles.com take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. Ship your reptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use ship your reptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates and materials needed to ship the reptile successfully live customer support in our live on-time arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptile report.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace find that perfect pet or breeder. Then visit shipreptiles.com to ship that animal anywhere in the United States. We are your one stop shop for everything reptile related. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Hey everybody welcome to another episode of Morelia Python radio tonight. We are joined by Jay Mcleer of Best Boyz. Jay has some really cool exciting, dare I say, the word tinker projects. A word that's only uttered in the royal python world. But seriously, we got a couple, well man, what was this maybe six months back? We got CJ at White Plains Show and saw some of the projects that he was working on. He has some really cool stuff. Not to mention that he is working with hypocostals, which is a rarity here in the states. Yeah, very, very cool projects. But tons of stuff that we'll be talking about tonight, including this one dare I say morph. It's posted over on Mariah Python radio's Facebook page. I'm sure you can see it on his Facebook page as well, Best Boyz. It's a coastal. It kind of reminds me of the silver pepper inland version in the coastal form. But it has like orange highlights inside. He said that he's bred that a couple times and he's been able to recreate that. So is that a new morph? Is it not? I don't know. But he still has some proven out to do. I talked to him a little while ago, late earlier in the week. He was saying about one of the, I can't remember if he said it was the female or the male, but didn't go over this year and he was trying to breed it to a normal, unrelated coastal to see what happened. Right. If it crops up in a normal, unrelated breeding, I think you're off to the races at that point, but or at least you kind of narrow the field down to what it could be for how to do best genetically. Yeah, it's hard to call something a morph until it's completely proven out. We have proven in all the different ways and I like to say it's taking time to do that before it takes to the forums with the oh my god, look at this new thing. I mean, you know, it's a few times where I've seen that where some people have a name to something that isn't true. I think there's somebody recently who had a spotted albino darlin and they're like, it's my leopard morph and it's like, what about this is a new morph? Oh, nothing. And don't call it that just so. Yeah, I think that was some kind of jag or something to call it a leopard jag or something. Yeah, yeah. Oh man, female. You can't add words and names all really really. So I'm glad that Jay is like taking the time and he talks about them and he and he's checking it out before he goes out there and calls them something brand new. So yeah, so he's going to have the story behind it. I'm glad that he's coming on. He's one of those guys that we've been trying to track down for. Jeez, probably since the very beginning. He's a, you know, he's a fellow east coaster and he's kind of, you know, kind of one of those guys that kind of just waits in the sidelines but has some amazing stuff and it's awesome that we're going to get to talk to him tonight. So looking forward to be calling in about 10 minutes or so. Before we do that though, we have that is joining the ranks of the Northeast and the Northwest. I guess this one would be called the Southwest but another one are good. Yeah, our good buddy Terrell Ziegler is going to come on and give us give us the lowdown on this other carpet fest out there on the West Coast. Hey Terrell, welcome to Moray Python radio. What's going on? Not too much. Cool. In California life. Nice to meet you. Oh, we need you. We had like three good days of warm weather and now back to like, you know, Eric and I are building small fires to ourselves warm for, you know, the cold. Yeah, 87 here over the weekend. Wow. See, oh, we could have lived out there because we'd have to we'd have to refocus how we breed breeds snakes. You mean, like, yeah, I know. Yeah, we totally have to do anything. Yeah, basically. We chose poorly, you know, but a southwest carpet fest. What made you want to do that? Do you create your person? Well, you know, you guys have all this fun over there. And we're just April, my business partner, and we're like, well, why can't we do it here for the people that are closer to here? And so we just kind of talked about it and wanted to make it happen. So that's where right now we have pretty much everything finalized to get it going. So they're probably further along in their planning than we are. So, I mean, what does that tell you? Nice. Okay. So, what's the give us the lowdown? What's the date, all the details? We are tentatively looking at June 19, which is a Friday. We figured we'd do it on Friday, then people that were flying in could hang out over the weekend as well, instead of doing it on Saturday, then after we on Sunday, the event is going to be hosted at prehistoric pets. Very good. I talked to Jay fairly regularly, but I asked him if he was interested in having a somebody. We weren't seeing out in the area where they do parties and stuff. So have everybody come hang out, talk carpets for a while. And then he was kind enough to say that he'd give anybody that wanted one a tour of all of his. A big glorious snake. Cool. I'm sure that's probably a spot to see. I would imagine that that's quite the place. It is amazing to see in person. I've been there a few times, and each time it's just he's getting better and better. Awesome. Nice carpet. So carpet. It makes carpet. It makes carpet pythons look like children's pythons when you go there. Yeah, I know, yeah. I do have my eight foot coastal, you know. Oh, yeah, no. Yeah, it's quite the difference from holding a seven foot coastal to an 18 foot restrict that's 250 pounds. Jesus. Yeah. No. Well, yeah, it should be a fun time. And we also, we like to give back to the community. And we, as a business, have since last year, last May, March. So, you know, as we're learning things and buying the things that we want to work with and stuff like that, we like to help out whenever we can donate and all that good stuff. You know, keep this crazy thing we got going going. Yeah. Very cool. So, if somebody was interested in either helping out or asking what food to get a brewing, or I assume you guys are going to have an auction, correct? Yes. I've worked on the form for it now for who wants to bring what and all that stuff. Okay. It'll be on our site at designer.net. I'll post it on Facebook as well. We're on Instagram. I'll put it pretty much anywhere and everywhere just to get the word out. Cool. Cool. So, I mean, obviously they would try to just get in contact with you with all this stuff about trying to get things planned together and getting rolling in the right direction, right? Yeah. Anybody can contact me on Facebook for all the glue. You can go on our Facebook page, designer.net, just shoot us a message. Okay. Our email designer.net at gmail.com. And you said it's going to be on a Friday. So, if I ship Eric to you guys on a Thursday, would you guys be home to receive him? Sure. Shut up. Just to turn you off it. I have to make sure someone's there to sign for him. Since I've gone to the West Coast, I'm assuming I don't need a backpack, which is, you know, well, no, I got it. I got to put in the lower ones because usually you can say warm until you get out there. Come on. Good point. Awesome. Well, that's cool to hear, man. I'm glad to see you, you know, taking the initiative and yeah, I think that that will be awesome. I mean, now we just got to talk about what the hell is happening in the middle of the country because now we've got the East Coast. Now we've got two out west. Where the hell are you guys in the middle? Come on. What about the, the Southeast too, man? Waiting for the, I mean, Florida is pretty much the reptile capital of the world. Well, I should say the US, none of the world. So they'll get it together to get their acts together, I assume. Cool. Cool. Perfect. Hopping up all the boys. Yeah, man. That's awesome. So yeah, if you send me the info, I'll put it up on our pages as well and we'll get the word out there. Yeah, definitely. Cool. Sweet. Well, I appreciate it. And any, any time you guys have updates or anything like that, just feel free to let me know and pop on and we'll, we'll get the word out. All right. Yeah, we'll be in touch. I'll probably finish final editing stuff over the weekend before I'm out of time for work. And then I'll shoot you guys both a message or put it up on Facebook or something. Okay. Sounds good. Appreciate it. Thanks. Oh, and did you hang up? No, I'm right here. No, you can't get rid of me that easily. So, you know, just not to engage with me for a little bit. All right. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. A couple things that I wanted to get out there real quick. First, we have to give a shout out birthday to Evan, Evan Browder. Today's shout out. Yeah. Well, you know, for him, we do every once in a while. If your birthday ends up on the day of the show, then you get a birthday shout out about that. You get a birthday shout out. Yeah. Right. I was like, that's a new thing. Yeah, but that's a new thing. All right. Well, there you go. Um, the show would change the show on me without like notification. I get to freak out, you know, three years worth 13. Yeah, right. Um, real quick, before we bring Jay on, carpet fest t-shirts. They're available. We have 19 left to go to hit our total. Yeah, I think we got 10 days. 10 days left. 10 days left. Yeah. If you haven't gotten your shirt, you might want to get it. Mm hmm. Once they're gone, they're gone. And I don't want to hear it. You send me an email on the 10th going, if you can order a t-shirt. I'm just not going to happen. No, my go get it now. Don't wait. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, we'll, we'll give some, uh, updates on carpet fest when we get to the end, but, um, on our carpet fest, um, uh, I was, uh, pretty lucky the other day. I hatched out, um, hatched out. Man, I, that was a quick innovation. Good lord. We got it. We got to stop the show and start over again. Yeah. Um, hang up to grab it. Do it again. Start it again. No, uh, I had a, uh, a female citrus tiger. Um, she was probably one of my favorite snakes. Um, I remember the first year that she laid, she only laid one egg. Oh, yeah. Last year, she laid four eggs. And this year, she made it to seven eggs, but two of them were slugs. Uh, ever climbed the ladder. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't like big clutches. She's a smaller female. I mean, she's actually one of the ones that actually eat, uh, pretty regularly. Um, what was the thing I said, we said to each other this year and I'm like, oh yeah, uh, your boy, like your one male got like two females. I'm like, he gets a rat. And then you're like, and then you said, and then you can get another one until August. I'm like, August, power. Yeah, you know, yeah, it's kind of crazy, but I think I have my feeding finally dialed in like, I think you're doing well, man. Yeah. The first year. Um, let's see. The first year, I didn't do it. I kind of fed too much. The second year, I didn't feed enough because I was doing that whole, uh, ambient thing. Yes. The next year, I didn't get anything that, that year. And then the next year, I, um, I upped it a little bit, not enough. I got some clutches. Um, but this year, I pretty much have a dialed in. So it sounds like it. And you're doing quite well. I'm glad you're doing well. Now, you can stop trying to camp me with the stuff that you're producing because it's working, right? It's not. Yeah. Well, I know we're taking up some time here, but we are. We are. We are. I'm curious. I have no idea what a well, no, it would be a caramel zebra tiger jag would even look like, but I can't wait to see. Yeah. I don't know. I'm thinking like it's going to reduce the pattern. That you always wanted is the reduced pinstripey kind of pattern. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so, and then the fact that they're all going to be caramels. That's cool. So maybe I'll get some, uh, some caramel tigers in there, granite. They won't be one baby out there. They won't be pure coastal. They'll be one of them anymore. Yeah. But there's no, there's no, uh, what do you call it? Coastal and jungles are the same thing anyway. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. It's true. It's true. It's in the book. You know, you know, but anyway, let's get this show on the road. Yeah. Let's get Jay on and, and get it going. Hello Jay. Welcome. Hey, how you guys doing? We're doing great. I'm glad to have you and we're ready to talk some carpets. Oh, well, that's interesting. Let's do it. Fantastic. Yeah. Why don't you just kind of give us a little bit of, uh, not over your view of, um, how you got into reptiles and the hobby altogether. Well, you know, it always goes back to your childhood. You know, I'm sure it does with most people where, you know, you're a kid, you're up finding water snakes and water snakes and eastern milk snakes and, you know, you develop that fascination as a child and, and, uh, I'm sure you guys did the same, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but, um, you know, that kind of lingered for a long time with me. You know, anything that in the herb world salamanders and frogs and turtles, you know, is always fascinating to me. And, you know, the, the traditional thing in the spring and Gretchen things and pulled on to him for a while. And, you know, in the fall, just let things go. If, uh, if they were eating at that point, you know, that a lot of these things would need for you. You know, back then, it was little to do with husbandry and there's a little information. Of course, there was no internet. And there's a, the herb clubs were few and far between back then and, you know, it's such a different world. No. But, uh, you know, if I got away with, uh, from it for a little bit of time and then, and then, uh, years and years ago, uh, this guy named Jay Jacobio opened up a shop, a reptile shop, I guess it will have grown up in Pennsylvania. And it happened to stop in there one day and I just was blown away by all the stuff he had in this little shop. And, uh, you know, stuff I'd never even seen or heard of. I mean, it just brought back all those great memories from being a child. And I say, oh, my God, what am I going to do? And then I bought a California king snake from him and then the Noka T. Corn snake and he had carpet pythons in there. And at that point, you know, nobody was breeding carpet pythons. And I remember he used, he hatched out a little clutch of carpet pythons back then. And I thought here were the coolest snakes I'd ever seen. You know, and, uh, and the rest is history. And I just, you know, got another snake and another snake and you know how that goes. Of course. Well, we're telling you guys. Yeah, right. Oh my gosh. And then, uh, you know, he studied on them. The more information comes out and more people become interested in passing on more information and people should then talk about things and we'll start to understand the snakes and, you know, how to create the proper habitats. And then, you know, develop this thing. Well, maybe I could breed these things. Of course, you know, that's what we're all sitting right now. Lots of the breed these snakes. And it's just, uh, non-growing fascination with those animals. And, uh, you know, I know we all share the same opinions from these things, because we all will be sitting here talking about it. Yeah. And we don't be doing something else. Something more constructive. Yeah. Something proud. I wasn't going to say that, but yeah. Let's be honest. Yeah, yeah. I completely agree. So what, uh, what led you to Moralia? What kind of drew you to them? Well, you know, I was a. Once again, going back to, you know, J. Kirby shopping, wait, then I will agrove. You know, I just love the look of the corporate patterns and, you know, the shapes of the heads, along slender bodies and I knew they were big, but not too big and manageable snake to have in your house. Uh, and they all said boa constrictors. Um, and of course, you know, all kids love boa constrictors, um, of course, but he had sernan redtail boas and hyana redtail boas, which really, really fascinated me because they were just taking the boa constrictor to another level as far as beauty goes, you know, more rare. And this is way before all the mopewolf came out. This is way before the albino boas and pastels and all that stuff. There's just boa constrictors, basically. So, you know, I got into the boas a little bit. Um, I started with some Brazilian redtail boas, which are my favorites. Uh, you know, the redtail boas are scattered all throughout South America and different locales have different looks and patterning to them. Um, and, uh, you know, I, I successfully bought some of my first pair of Brazilians from, uh, a guy in your pet name, Steve Hammond, Dan and, uh, Maryland, when they had that very first Maryland show down there, that's out of Baltimore. Uh, if that's when the show is really exciting because there was a few and far between, you know, you'd have to wait six or eight months to go to a show. And when you went to a show, all the big readers were there and they brought all their great stuff. And, uh, it was just so much fun to go to show us back then. And, uh, if you're with that, do you guys remember those days? No, no, no, no, no. I wasn't even, well, I wasn't, I wasn't plugged into reptile so college. So I got in right when there was a show every month or every other month. And now there's like one every weekend in a certain tri-state area. So yeah, I mean, Jeff, it's too many. Oh my gosh, it would be nice to go back to fewer shows and far between, oh man, that's the truth. Yeah, I remember there was a show in Sellersville, Pennsylvania. That was a big one. It was a tiny little show. Nice from all over, you know, from the Mississippi East, we'd all come to this little show in Sellersville, Pennsylvania. And just bring your stuff, you know, and it was just so much fun to go to these shows. Like once again, you know, every six or eight months, maybe, you know, once a year you'd go to a show. And then the Sellersville show turned into the Potsdam show, which I guess it was an annual show for a while. Um, and, uh, do you remember that show? The Potsdam show. Well, they stopped it and then they tried to bring it back to life recently. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, they did it in near Hatfield, Pennsylvania. Oh, yeah. They tried to kind of breathe some life back into it. And then it went for like three shows and very little attendance, uh, very few vendors, and it just didn't eventually intended a dime. And so they haven't done it now for, uh, probably almost a year now they haven't done it. I, I, I, I vended it once and then never did it again. So yeah, yeah. But they were trying there for a little bit. Yeah. Well, you know, maybe it's a good thing I thought yes. Somebody showed it. Oh my gosh. Yeah. It, it, everybody's trying to start up a show at some point somewhere. They were, they were trying to start one up by me, uh, up here and, uh, they never got it up off the ground, but they approached me about being a vendor. So, but it kind of almost seems like you'd have more fun with fewer shows because you're right. The bigger guys would show up and it would be a big to do. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And, you know, there still are some, obviously, some big select shows, which a lot of people show like the White Plains show, the New York Metro Shores, a great show. And, uh, you know, the Tilly Parks and stuff of that. That's a very big show. Yeah, that's, that's huge. That's kind of taking the place. I think I'm going to show down in Daytona at this point. It's the biggest track. I would agree. But anyway, Jay, why don't you, can you give us a brief overview of your collection? We're going to go into detail a little bit later, but, um, kind of how many snakes do you currently own and then what species are you working with? I guess I'm probably in about that 150 snake range of varying sizes, you know, some adults, two adults, lots of little babies from last year. Um, yep. And, you know, we all have our whole backs, which we'll never let go, you know. So, man, that's a problem sometimes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm such a hoarder. Oh my gosh. We should just all have one show about the holdback show. Everybody brings the holdback to sell. That would be a great show. That would be fantastic show. I would not spend any money unless I went there. I mean, come on. Oh my gosh. That's awesome. So, yeah, but, you know, I even mix of carpet playfans, um, some walnuts, um, and of course, some boa constrictors, boa constrictor constrictors, certain emerald tails and Brazilian red tails. But, um, my focus lays my, you know, lays mostly in the carpet python. They're definitely my favorites. And, uh, you know, I get jungles and, you know, I really, at this point, throwing a lot of effort into, into producing coastal snails. Um, I've got some coastal things going and, and I'm striving the best of my ability to really get coastal that I know have not been out crossed into jungles or diamonds and stuff like that. I mean, it's really difficult, obviously, in this country to do that. Because, uh, you know, so many things over the years have kind of been intermingled and, you know, way back when, like I said, when this, you know, the show started, you know, it wasn't all this differentiation between all the different subspecies, really, you know, that really isn't started. One of the barkers come out with their book, like in 1994, something that quipons of the world book. Yeah, I think that was it. That was a great book. And that, that book really divided up all the different subspecies and other cows with the carpet pythons. I think they're really true attention to, you know, the different types of carpets that they really were. And I think at that point, a lot of people really became more selective as to what they were breeding. You know, at least some individuals tried to be selective and keep certain blood lines pure like the limpkey coastals, you know, the barker jungles, you know, you got this famous bloodlines. But even at this point, it's so hard to find just these pure, pure blood animals. Yeah, she did Australia. Was you something horribly illegal? Yeah, so, yeah, you know, that would be fun maybe. Yeah, you know, I also, you know, once the Darwin's became available, I jumped right in the Darwin's because I really fell into love with the Darwin's. And I actually want to get thanks to the barker's book. You know, they had Darwin's in there and that up I know Darwin that was in there. I said, you know, one day I'm going to have to do things no matter what. And they did become available, you know, I jumped on that and I wanted to make sure that I waited for the pure Darwin's to become available because I knew they were bringing some mixes from Europe for a while, but I thought out, I waited for the Darwin's and now, you know, and now I get along with the coastals. I really want to try to selectively read just normal Darwin's because I think they're just absolutely spectacular animal. They are cool thing. Everyone else, you know, everybody has their favorites. Speaking of Darwin's, did you see that Darwin that was on Facebook today? The one that looks like a, I get, you know, it was like completely black with like gold stripe down the back. Did you guys see that? Oh my gosh, no, no, no, what was this? You didn't see that. Oh, and I can't believe you're thinking, well, I was working today. I mean, what were you doing? I'm going to see if I can find a picture of it and try to share it on the, uh, on the Facebook on the pick of the week. It would be on the pick of the week, wouldn't it? No, you guys, let's find out. I want to see that. It was wild looking. It reminded me of a, reminded me of a ball python morph, but I can't remember what kind it was, but man, this thing just looked wild. Like I never seen anything that I remember the first time I did Tinley. Oh, here it is. Uh, let's see. Oh, it is on the pick of the week. It's, um, Andrew, oh, I just lost it. Oh, God. Give me the answer. Oh, and you should be talking now while I'm looking. I am talking. Talking. I see it. It's very reduced in pattern. It's got some blotches. It looks almost completely very dark in color. I like it. I, I dig it. You know, it's, it's kind of another way. And that's what I kind of like about certain really and why I kind of like what Jay's doing with his coastal project is that there's no morph, but we're, he's line breathing and he's very particular about his coastal. So you're getting really good animals from pure bloodline to make just slam in coastal, which I'm always all for. And the Darwin in there being that it has like fairly in color and very little pattern is just awesome. I would love to see them try to, you know, line, breed that with that. Oh, yeah. I'm going to, uh, I'm going to share it over on my timeline. Okay. And I'm going to put it's Andreas low brand. Yeah. I probably said that wrong because really pretty. It's almost pink Europe. Anyway, it just goes to show you the potential. What you can do. And we've done all this stuff with jungles. I mean, if you're a wild caught jungle or wild country compared to the ones that are hatched in the United States, they were drastically different. So yeah, there's nothing saying that you can't do that with coastal IJ, Darwin, things like that. So yeah, I'm all tough. I've subscribed to that idea for, for quite a while. That's why I don't have a whole lot of jungles in my collection. I think they're beautiful and whatnot. But I'm trying to, uh, have that same refinement that's been done with them into the, uh, other carbibithons. And I think that's when you're going to really start to see things pop and shine and, and then especially when you're going to breed those base, um, you know, base carbibithons, you know, like the different subspecies that have been selectively bred into the morphs. Good Lord. I mean, look what zebras have done, you know, um, oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, if you look at the first zebras that came into the States, they weren't the prettiest and already there. I mean, there's some really nice zebras out there. Uh, selective breeding, uh, changes things a lot. It really does. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I would totally agree with that. Um, that's one of the, uh, I don't know. That's, uh, I think sometimes that, um, that's what's going to take us a little while to get people's attention because I think with some of these morphs, it's kind of like you're kind of plugging them, we're just plugging them into, uh, you know, these different things and, you know, like it just take like, uh, I don't know, take a granite, you know, a magic plugging that into like a, uh, a GQ or a PC line, IJ or, you know, uh, you name it, you know, Xannic into like some of these crazy, uh, costals that like even some of the stuff that you, that you have, J, I imagine, you know, like taking a, like that simple morph and like then, you know, tweaking it out. So, yeah, that's a fun of breeding because you, you get to breed these things and put them together and then, and wait to see what happens. And you know, you just don't know what's going to happen. And then, until I hit something like, wow, it just blows your mind, you know, something new and completely exciting and beautiful stuff. Yeah, so I, yeah, so it's, um, I wanted to talk a little bit about that with, uh, with some of the stuff that you're doing. You have quite a few projects that, um, that go in that route. A lot of people make fun of me because I say that you could take, well, let me put it this way. I see these guys that deal with, we call them royal pythons on the show, but I see these guys where they'll, they'll pick over all these different animals and they'll look at something to us that would look like a normal looking, uh, you know, ball python and they're able to pick out these traits and then they put them together and wow, they get this crazy stuff. So I think it is, is that you would be able to do the same thing with carpets, but a lot of times people just kind of chalk it up to variability. Oh, they're just variable, you know, which I know that we really don't have a whole lot of, you know, wild caught stock that we're dealing with. I get that, I understand that, but is there projects that we could be breeding that were not because we're just chalking it up to variability? So, um, when I was at white planes, I got to see some of the stuff that you were, you know, that you were working on. And, uh, I was quite impressed and, uh, you know, I want to talk about some of it. So I guess the coolest thing is, is that you have this coastal carpet, um, that, you know, it was kind of, I don't know how to describe it, but it's probably one of the coolest looking carpet pythons that, uh, that I've seen. So maybe you can give us some back history, story with it, uh, what breeding's have you done. And for anybody that wants to see it, yeah, you can go over to, uh, Jay's, uh, Facebook page, Best Boys. He has it over there. It's also on, uh, Morelle Python radio, Facebook page, um, to see what we're talking about. So, laying on us. Okay. So, um, a few years ago, I was down at the Daytona show, um, and one of the vendors there had, you know, had a bunch of normal crystals, but he had these, supposedly normal crystals. Um, but he had these two that were just very different. Um, it came out of this clutch out of all these other ones. And the one was very strange. Um, I have a picture of that animal up on my Facebook page up on the, the little icon that you use. I guess your profile picture, I guess you call it. Um, that's the little male that I picked up. He didn't know what it was. You know, he had astronomical price on it and he was calling it a granite. And he didn't know what to call it. And I knew it wasn't a granite. I'm a specialist, if it was a coastal, and this is, you know, this is not, and this is going back a few years. So, granists weren't all out all over the place like they are now anyway. Um, I just knew something was up with this animal. And he had, like I said, this is the male. There was a stranger. And he had a female that was somewhat strange as well. I just had a hunch of something going on with this thing genetically. It's just not your typical random patterning. So I thought about it. I thought about it. I talked to the guy numerous times throughout the show. Um, and I went back and forth and he wanted a lot of money for them. And he ended up not selling them by the end of the show, which totally blew me away. Yeah. And once the show was done, and I know he walked away with them, I knew I'd see him again. And I just, I spent many nights just ponding laying in bed. I just got these things. So I waited until I sold the guy again. I knew you'd have them. And, um, I was happier than the pig. And you know what, when I sold them, if he had them, and I just made them a deal and, um, we came to an agreement and, uh, I got these animals. And so I raised them up. And lo and behold, I was able to breed them. The brother back to his sister. And I first got, she produced, was 11 babies. And every single baby was a baron. So to varying degrees, you know, one of the more baron ones obviously is the one I have pictures on my Facebook page. That's one of the, my original letter. Um, I had some others that are equally as crazy, if not more crazy, which I have not posted pictures of yet. But, uh, definitely something going on there. Um, so that was, I think it was three years ago. Um, two years ago, I, I moved to my snake room and I changed my whole setup. And I had not such great breeding season, but I was still able to produce a small clutch comparing again. But once again, every baby was a baron. Again. Uh, once you get the varying degrees, some were American others, but they all had some kind of embarrassing. Um, and then I think I only have five babies from that clutch. And last year, I produced a very small little letter from the parents. Um, and I, I had four babies, two of them never ate. Um, but I kept two and both of those were buried. Um, the biggest thing I have so far is I have not been able to out-cross that animal to really see what's going on. Uh, I tried every year, just never took for the past three years. So I'm hoping that maybe I was able to, to do that this year. The female looks like she's very gravid right now. I'm waiting on her. Um, I, I out-crossed her with a, with a male coastal, but I know has at least a 20 year lineage of your, your coastal, Olympic coastal. So I'm trying to be best on my ability to really keep it coastal as much as I know. Um, so we're really going to have to wait and see what happened this year. And then, and then at least I'll know more about the fish genetics on these animals, and there's just a simple recessive for, you know, predominant, something like that. So, we're waiting to see that they're really great. They're really hardy animals once you get a meeting and, you know, they're completely unproblematic and they're just crazy different. So as you can see, that's awesome. Yeah. I love the, the, it looks like somebody smudged out the head pattern. Yeah. The, uh, the original, original one that you had, which is just wild looking. Well, that's one of the, that's one of the traits on these animals. All of them have somewhat apparent head patterns, you know, the varying degrees once again, but, you know, none of them have a normal, you know, like a typical pattern on their head. So, you know, it's, I can't wait to see how I'm really hoping that female drops eggs, and I successfully have some of them just to see what comes out of them. Really chomping at the back of that. But it's definitely good. So, let's see what happens. That's cool. I mean, hopefully, man. What, what, well, let me ask you this. Like, what is, what is the feeling like, you know, knowing that you have this project that basically could be something new in the carpet Python morph world? Like, what's that feeling like? Uh, you know, as you could probably imagine, I'm extremely excited because what, you know, as far as I know, it's all coastal, it's pure coastal. So, and that's another thing I'm leaning into. I just, I'm trying not to accross into different subspecies of animals at this point. Most of this stuff. Right. You know, I'm going to keep my doubt by no Darwin's, Darwin's, and, you know, I'm going to keep my coastal's coastals. But the thing is, you know, I can breed this into the tiger lines or the jaguar lines or the exotic lines. And I also, we're working with two hypon coastals as well. And some of you probably are just fantastic. Yeah. So, you know, I've got all sorts of different lines where, you know, I can move all these things all within the coastal realm and keep them all coastal. So, you know, whatever happens to them outside of my, my world of snakes is, you know, obviously, it's going to be interesting as well. At least I'll be able to get everything coastal. Right. Right. I'm very excited about that. Who knows? Like, you know, what's going to happen when I breed that into a jaguar, you know, that's just going to be outrageous, I think. Let's see. Yeah. That would be cool. And even then, see the different combinations within coastal, you know, those, that kind of a barren patterning with Xanic would be awesome. They're all my gosh, I'm all on its own. Add that enough with some jags. It would look killer no matter where it goes. So, oh my gosh, very excited to see what you do with that. So, yeah, it's going to be fun. I got a lot of work ahead of me in the most few years with us. You know, it's going to be a wild ride, I think. Well, you know me and Owen will both be knocking at your door. Yeah, that's cool. I've had almost 800 views of that picture since yesterday. I'm sure it's generating a lot of interest, which, you know, I think it would. Yeah. I mean, you got something that's, that's, you know, it's kind of, you very rarely see that kind of thing happen in the, you know, outside of Australia. But, yeah, well, somehow somebody in Australia got that picture of one of these snakes and it was pulsing around one of their forms last year. And nobody's ever seen anything like it, even in Australia, which, well, that's, that's what I was looking at, you know, as far as what they were saying, people were like, huh, where's that? Who did that? So, you know, it's, it's pretty interesting. That's exciting. That's, that's really cool. And I mean, imagine if you were the guy who sold them to Jay and then you realize that all of a sudden they were something completely, you know, insane. So. Well, it was a gamble. It's a big gamble. You didn't get into something that you just don't know. Yeah. I can relate for the, you know, I have this melanistic type IJ that I firmly believe it's genetic, but I don't have proof, you know, and I think it's going to work where when you have the end, I don't know if you would say the super form of it or whatever is going to be like an all black snake, which an all black carpet python will be. Well, you've seen that all black jungle, haven't you? I mean, that thing's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Is it called that a panther jungle? Is that what they're calling that thing? Oh my god. You know, I recognize that conversation. That is a snake that I will probably sell my kid before at one point. So it, it's something about an all black carpet python just speaks to me. So I, they will be mine eventually, but well done. I don't know if you caught this today, but they have an albino coastal now in Australia. I've heard it. I've heard about this about four years ago, actually. Yeah. But it's like, you know, apparently they're making heads, which is awesome for people like me and you, Jay, who don't really want to mix things. This means I can do more projects in 10 years. So it'll be, you know, your coastal sun glows. Your coastal the hell else is there knows yet done. Awesome. So I'm getting something to do 10 years from now. I really think out of all the, I don't know what you guys think, but I think out of all the subspecies of carpet pythons, I think coastal's probably jungles would probably be next, but I think coastal's probably lend itself to these different directions that you could take them in. I mean, they look so different depending on where they're from or what line they're from. Right. Right. You know, I mean, it's just such a, such a crazy palette of color and pattern and width. So yeah. Well, yeah, it's too bad. We don't have too many true locality coastal's in the United States. I mean, obviously, you know, you look at some of the websites, you get the Brisbane coastal's and, you know, I guess they have a rock-hampton coastal's and, you know, all sorts of different ones. You know, they're all different as, you know, the subspecies are just, you know, much else. Yeah, I have a, yeah, I have a, I have a pair of each of those and to look at all of them, you know, you look at a rock-hampton and then you look at like a port Douglas and it almost, they look like a jungle with coastal colors. Like, it's crazy, you know, it's just wild. They have a very distinct head pattern. I don't know, it's just, this is very cool. But there's a lot of possibilities that can, can be done with, with coastal's, which is, which is awesome. Yeah. Any other projects that you got going on as far as coastal's go that working with? Well, I did mention I had the hypocostals, which I, I lucked out in getting them a few years ago. They've been not too easy to breathe down. I know my females are not going to go this year. I've had two males who's vigorously prehear all into and she's not showing any signs of doing gravity at all, unfortunately. No, that's another one that I would have been in front of real for. Yeah, I had a bunch of people waiting for those animals. I have two from a very, very small litter I produced a couple years ago that I'm raising up and they're, they're, I posted one actually on my Facebook page. They're, they're, they're starting to look really nice and I think the one that I posted is a male. So I'm going to try to get him to size to breathe his mother hopefully next winter and we'll see what happens. I'm going to cut the, the example of coastal's which I really want to breathe that into the hypo. And yeah, I'm really excited about that. Yeah, please God. Do you work with caramel at all? To the caramel gene? Do you have that or? I have a, yes, I have a, you know, I picked up a real nice super caramel from Nick mutton. Year before last she's turning out amazing. I'm a caramel female that I thought was going to go this year. I'd better do a tiger jag but I don't think that went either. I changed some things random as Nick, but we should experiment that. I'm not sure I did the right stuff. So we'll, we'll see. I think that always the way. And how do they, how does the hypo compare to the caramel? Like very different. You know what I might do, I might take a picture of the two side by side and post them on my case. That would be all show. And I would love to see the different, I'd love to see the difference of once they're both bred to the examics. Like I'd love to see super caramel examics next to a hypo exam. I can see the differences between the two. So I know that they've been kind of saying that caramel is kind of like a cheap way of getting the hypo. And I'd love to see how close we're getting or, you know, could get. If there's any bits. Well, I definitely think it's a, it's just definitely a form of hypo melanism. Yeah. It's just, you know, obviously when you breed caramel to caramel, you get the supers and then it really shines at that point. You know, you're very, very black, hardly anybody. As you know, you produce some really nice super crumbles for silk there. Oh, in this past season. Thank you. Beautiful animals. Thank you. You know, you know, you know what happens. And then I think we, we got to refine that line too. I mean, I think playing with caramel is really going to be something the next couple of years. You know, people are already producing awesome animals. Yeah. And I also, with that, I just think the combination as well as the refinement with more coastal wines that are over here as well as just, you know, people getting the better animals and those whole backs from those breedings are getting older and breeding with the whole backs from other breeding. We're going to start seeing even better, even better, even better. Yeah. That's selective blood breeding, right? Exactly. Yeah. Now, yeah, I was lucky enough also Chris Bayhoff had this really crazy hypoish looking animal that he picked up. And I ended up getting from him this past year. And I don't want anybody to remember seeing that thing. I do because he kept trying to, he sent pictures of it to me a bunch of times. I did not know where he ended up. And I'm glad I know where he ended up now. So my collection. There you go. And also, good thing. Yes, I'm really, I was super happy to get that. And then he was vigorously breeding with him when I speak, you know, coastal and sheep is pretty good right now. So I'm crossing all my fingers and toes for that because I really want to see what happens with that. Hypoimulnism seems to be a co-dominant thing, just in my experience. So if that is correct, and that is true hypoimulnism, that's a different form of hypoimulnism than that. You know, we'll have some babies, you know. We'll definitely show that characteristic. Well, you know, it remains to be seen. So we'll have to wait and see on that one too. What do you guys think as far as when we're dealing with hypoimul, even with the red? When you're putting the animal with another animal, what would be what you would look for to produce better, better caramels or hypos or reds? You know, because I think the original thought was that you would take an animal with less black. But it turns out that some of the results from doing that really didn't turn out as well as people had thought. Right. I don't know. You guys have any thoughts on what you would put that, you know, hypo gene with to refine it better? You know what? It's so few of them out there. I don't know. At this point, I'm just trying to breed whatever I can to achieve. See what happens. Right. Yeah. That's why I said that I think we're at the beginning stages, you know, as more and more. We refine these things, you know, I think. You'll see better results. Well, I probably the person, at least in the United States, that has the best experience with it would be Nick Martin. I mean, he's really lying but some really spectacular, super caramel. You know, super loose black and really bright colors. You know, I think he probably did the best one to edge that. I mean, he's got some amazing animals. Yeah, it's funny. I was talking about maybe a couple of weeks on the show. Yeah, Nick's a pretty good friend of mine. And I was saying that I went to his website and I was checking out his caramel stuff and was blown away by what he had produced. I just was seriously like, wow, it's really top-notch stuff, you know? Yeah, great stuff. Well, like I said, I wouldn't produce them pretty nice animals too, though. I wouldn't knock his animals either. You know, it's just a question of like, you know, every year, just taking the best ones, reading them back to the best ones, you know? Yeah. Refining everything truly. You know, that's what you're trying to do is produce, you know, take certain traits that you really respect and like and magnify those traits. That's what people do with the jungles, obviously. You know, even that, you know, sometimes you repeat the very best jungles back to each other. You're still going to get some babies. You just don't make stress. There's colors like you want them to. You can build it up. Right. You know, you'll get good ones. You'll get medium ones. You'll get the ones that are just ugly or thin. But, you know, even when you breed your holdback that you've been breeding for several years, you're still going to get ones that are on the bottom end of the scale. And that's the way it is. You never, with carbon plate guns, you never get the clutches. All spectacular looking animals all at once. You still have some that are kind of the opposite end. There's still no clutches. But, you know, they're always going to be 30-year ones in the clutch. Oh, yeah. You know, there's no doubt about that. And that's all the ones we hold back for ourselves. Yeah, of course. Because I did all the work, you know, because you guys didn't have everything else I don't want. That's why I always say I breed for myself first. Right. We all do that. It's funny because people will approach you and be like, well, how about can I get first pick a clutch? It's like, no. No one gets first pick to the clutch, but me. So you can have second pick. Yeah, the second pick is the best you're going to get. Right. That's awesome. Cool. So, um, definitely. So, let's talk about some of your other, other projects that you're working with. You said you were working with the Darwin's. What do you, what's, what's your deal with that? I remember, I think I first met you at Tinley Park. And I was there at the table with David Diamond. And they had picked up this Darwin that was almost hypo looking. And I remember Tex and Nick. And I was like, Nick, I can't believe that he got frick, because what had happened is Nick had contacted me and contacted Dave. And I think he contacted a couple other people about that clutch in particular. And he said that, um, for some reason, I didn't call him back right away. So he gave David first pick and he brought it to the show. And everybody that walked by that table that there was like, Oh my God, what is that? You know? That's nice. Oh, yeah. I remember Tex and Nick. And I was like, Nick, I can't believe I, I screwed up on this and didn't call you back. And he says, Don't worry. You have one that looks just like it. And I was like, Oh, thank God, because that has to be one of the coolest looking Darwin things, my favorite. But, do you have, I was looking at your, your Facebook page. And you have something similar. So you must have got something along those lines as well. Or what do you work with? Yeah, you know, I'm trying to, I have a couple different bloodlines of Darwin's at this point. And, um, you know, I just posted a pic of a, like a, a yearling on my page, which is very reduced black and orange is really vibrant on the thing. And that's just, that's what I like in the Darwin's. I, you know, what I'm trying to produce is a very low black, high orange banded Darwin. You know, that's to me, you know, the perfect Darwin, you know, the perfect phenotype for me that's produced. And that's what I'm striving for. It's a, you know, nice Darwin's are just beautiful animals. Just like that at the PC line, I really enjoy it. You know, everybody knows that line. You know, that's a certain look to that. I really enjoyed it. Everybody just absolutely loves. Yes. You can do the same thing with the Darwin's. You know, I, I'm seeing that already. So, you know, I, I'm not that concerned about actually producing a bino as much as just really nice Darwin's actually what I want to do. You know, you said you're just beautiful too. And, you know, it's just really nice in depth. I think there's enough bloodlines available now that we don't have to worry about, you know, in breeding so much, because, you know, I think there's four or five different bloodlines available in the United States at this point. Right, if I'm wrong. So, that's a good place to work. Yeah. Yeah, it's, I just, I just shared it over on the NPR Facebook page, but that is a beautiful animal. Very, very nice, orange, very clean, man. Nice pans. Yeah, beautiful animal. Great. Yeah. I see some pictures of yours. I'm going to put some pictures of yours and I'll have their turning out. I haven't seen any pictures of that for a while. So, I'm curious. Yeah, I'll have to take some pics. I have a female that kind of looks similar to, to this one, but not as reduced black, but the, uh, the reduced black on this one is crazy. And that's what I, I, I kind of say it's in the same lines of, uh, that's like a PC Darwin, you know, post-a-trial Darwin. So, very cool. Yeah, it's weird. I don't mean this. Go ahead. No, go ahead. I was going to say, I don't even necessarily want to reduce all the black because I think sometimes I have another one where the black is on all the, all the saddles, but the black athlete actually defines out the orange from the, from the white and actually makes it somehow look even nicer, I think, on somebody who has more stuff, you know, it all depends on the animal itself. Yeah, I think, I think your, uh, the contrast is, uh, what makes that pop, you know? If you could somehow like refine that, uh, I guess maybe you make that, what would that be, like that tan color, that khaki color, maybe even a little more brighter, man, you would, yeah, so much that you could do. I, you know, is it weird? Do you guys think, I mean, you think back in the days when I first got into carpet pythons and like the, the fact of just having a Darwin carpet was just like, uh, man, that's like the greatest thing ever. And it seems like, I don't know, it seems to me like they get that they really got the short end of the stick because people just kind of like toss them off as just, uh, that looks like an iJ. And reality, they really don't. I think they got the short end of the stick because that is the curse of where albino cropped up. So Darwin's like, yeah, nobody took the time like you, you have inland and you have all the other, you know, things and all the other localities, even these localities across coastal with the Brisbane and the other things with that, that have the appreciation for them because of what they are. You can almost skip the appreciation for a Darwin as a Darwin because albino came so hot on its heels. So it was like, oh, Darwin's are here. They're kind of cool. Holy crap, albinos. So it's like, you didn't have the time to really have the people who just liked Darwin's for being Darwin's. You're kind of getting that now, but you don't have that much differentiation or pull away from the albino lines. So it's kind of hard. Yeah, you're exactly right. I agree with you on the other side. They're very, very underappreciated. The normal darlings at this point, you know, obviously there's a few people like us that do appreciate it and realize how special they are. You know, and I think as we re-fog them, you know, more people will see how beautiful these things are, you know. I think it's a good thing. Yeah, absolutely. I was, my idea is to go more in the striped direction with the Darwin's that color, but striped. I'm a fan of stripes. Anything striped is cool with me, but, you know, I think that, you know, it's their head pattern. I really like their head pattern where it's almost solid. Yes. No, there's just something about the way that their head is that's different than any other carpet python. Well, the head pattern seems to pick up that orange from the saddles too. A lot of them, and some of them have a lot of orange in the head, which I absolutely just love. I think it's just beautiful, you know. Yeah, yeah, I'm looking at this close-up shot of that, I don't know if that's a male or a female that you have in the pick, but you can actually see in the head that that orange, which is wild looking. Yeah, it's great. That's a beautiful one. That's something that the IJs don't get that under head, you know, Darwin too. Yeah, true. Very cool. All right. How about, let's see, one of the other things I noticed on your Facebook page was IJ Jags. Are you still working with them? And I see that you were going towards trying to make a perfect black stripe down the back of the the jag, which is just wild. Yeah, that's something, you know, I picked that up as a project, I guess about a year ago. I just always liked this fully, fully blown, unbroken racing stripes down the backs of some snakes. And you know, it's kind of hard to get. And once again, the striping is genetic. And I think the line breeding, you can just really perfect that, or reduce saddles on the side with a jet black stripe down the back like a, so we took a Marko mark, you know, Marko right down the back of the snake. And I know with that, Bill Stegel has produced some jungle jags, similar to that. And they're just stunning animals. Yes. So, you know, that's something I've kind of been leaning into. I'm not sure I'm going to stick with that project because I've got all these other projects going on. But it's that line breeding, you know, it's just really producing really nice stuff if you put the effort into it. Yeah. Yeah, the cool thing is, is that in the, in the non-jag offspring, you also have that black stripe that goes, I guess on this one, it's probably three quarters of the way down to the back. Oh yeah, it's a solid stripe. It's beautiful. I've actually been with my ship in the jag when you put them side by side in the light. It's really, really cool animal. Very cool stuff. You hardly ever see that black stripe go down the back of carpet pythons. No, no. In just the straight offspring. So again, like where that would be a, you know, something that I guess stood out to you and you selectively bred for it. That's pretty awesome. It's fun to find weird things and play with these things and, you know, perfect them. You know, that's what I kind of like to do. You know, I try to look for the stuff that nobody else is playing with and, you know, take it to another level. It's kind of fun to do that. I like that idea. I mean, it's the road less traveled kind of thing you can have and it's almost like, I think it's almost like you're saying that you think this thing is cool and every else is going to get hit your trick eventually. But until then, you know, you're kind of the only guy playing with it right now. So yeah, you know, it's kind of the way it works for me. You know, I just look for the underdog snakes, I guess. The less popular ones. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And I also have a, you know, like you're saying here, we're talking about this stuff and nobody else is playing with it. I have this supernova jags, which are kind of unusual animals. They are. What's the sort of behind them? Anybody remember the guy Randy? Randy Mack, you ever leave his last name was? New Jersey? I actually do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He produced the very first literally supernova jags and everybody just went crazier, but he sings because they were so unusual. And supposedly he picked up these animals that, theoretically, they were an undescribed subspecies of carpet Python. It was theorized to come from Papua New Guinea. Let's let everybody know. So the conclusion after all the hubbub was, you know, raised about them. And, you know, the name Supernova came from, you know, New Guinea used to be called Nova Guinea. You're writing a lot of the older maps and people thought these are super snakes from Nova Guinea. So they coined their name Supernova. I think it was coined on Reality of Python's.com, you know, way back when. Well, back a few years, but they're distinctly different animals because the babies are completely different than the, and the other, you know, IJ jags I've ever seen. You know, the babies come out. A lot of them almost white. And it's super nice ivory white. And, you know, the patterning is different on them. And a lot of them are very aberrant patterns and very strange head markings on them. But there's just definitely a different animal. Wherever they came from, you know, I don't know for sure. No, I don't think anybody does. But kind of the original animals that he bought were small. They were only like five feet long. And I think his first one original clutch, this five foot Python, I think 26 or 28 eggs came out of this thing. And really, yeah, you've read a nice, what they call the hypo jags. That's what they were calling back then. Back to this female. The babies were just so outrageous. And so many of them were just extremely reduced patterned animals. So, you know, I saw these things. I was just about ready. This is when, you know, reptilicus was producing just strange producers, tiger jags, which were at that time, just blew everybody away as well. Yeah, I was ready to dominate some tiger and jag. Oh my god, that was just incredible. I was ready to invest in that project. And then Randy produced the supernovas. And then I kind of shifted my gears and went right to Randy. I said, "Oh my gosh, we got to work something out." So I ended up doing, you know, what some. And we did some trading back and forth. Randy and I ended up with a, you know, nice little group of these things. And I got a lot of, yeah, the sibling too, which made it. He didn't have very many siblings because most of them were jags. I mean, there's a high percentage of jags. You might have this first letter and I got the siblings as well, which enabled me to breed the siblings back to the jags. So I'm kind of breeding them as they were first produced. Just really crazy looking snakes. You know, I'm not sure some people have posted some pictures of them on some of the other forms that have bought them from me. And they're just beautiful snakes. So I'm kind of like one of the very few people working with them. I know Mike Curtain had one. I mean, he outcrossed with his ivory line. But she produced some really beautiful snakes, you know, for that thing. And a couple of people had them. I don't know if they still do. I hadn't really heard of anybody else using the supernovas at this point. I know some of them have died from respiratory problems. Yeah. I mean, I saw a pair, a friend of mine had a pair back when there were babies that he got direct from Randy. But I think he ended up selling them back to Randy. He really got out of snakes. Yeah. So I'm pretty sure he got them and they were tiny, tiny little things. And then he told them, I think, back to Randy. And then I think that I don't know where they went from there. They could potentially be with you. It might have been in my collection, right? Yeah. I mean, that might be where they ended up. But it was, they were you're exactly correct with the whole, like, these were baby jags that came out white when everything under the sun that was jagged related was coming out yellow. So it was completely awful in this whole other, like, island and it was crazy and they looked awesome. And I've seen your adults, you brought them to a few things and they developed nice and they're very cool. Now, yeah, great. Great animals. Now, now, are these the same thing as now I have, I have new guineas that are, I guess they call them no, but guineas that came from Europe? Is this the same? No. Okay. This is something different. Yeah, Visa and his adult have that these little triangle patterns on their heads and they were very, very reduced patterning up the sides. Very different looking. I know the animals you're talking about and those are equal use nice, but just a different animal, you know, I don't know what they're calling those as far as, you know, the scientific nomenclature for those. But these were, I've never seen snakes like this. I have not seen them eat to this day. I've not seen any more like them. I don't know if they came into bush masters through Indonesia. I don't even know how they ended the country, but they were definitely strange, I didn't park their pythons. As far as I know, all those original adults were gone. Right. I was lucky enough to get one of the original adults two years ago and I bred one of my supernova jags back to the, it was a female. I bred one of the males back and she was gravid. I was so excited. And then she became egg band and died on me, unfortunately. Oh, wow. That was a, that was a bad loss. But, you know, yeah, it's what it is. Huh, that's cool. Interesting. I attest the, the new guineas to basically Cape York carpet pythons. That's what I think they are, that line. I think there's also a line that I work with as Derek Roddy's new guinea that he calls them. They're also, I would say that there would be similar to what you'd see at Cape York area. Mm-hmm. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, that's cool. I, it's okay. I, that's the one thing that I was confused on. So I'm glad that you cleared that up. Like, I was always wondering if they were the same thing and, you know, that's, I've heard that name, but never really. Yeah, he's supernovas. Yeah. He's not even getting away with it, but now he needs supernovas. So, somewhere in one of these like photo buckets or one of these, you know, websites for people with display photos, as far as I know, there's still pictures of Randy's animals. I, I wish I knew where they were, but they're out there on the internet somewhere and they just dig those pictures up. I just love to get to those pictures so people can see what the adults look like because they were very strange. Maybe archives one more area, pythons.com. Is that still that far back or do we lose all those things? I'm not sure. Yeah, I don't know. I, I, I'm going to bet it's somewhere back there in, in those archives. I'm going to go on a mission. We go, it'd be worth looking at it. Right now. Yeah. That's something that I do. Okay. So, uh, let's see. What other projects do you work? Do you work with diamond pythons? Yeah. Over the years, I've had a few diamonds and, uh, you know, like, like everybody else, they were poorly understood and we all kept our diamonds too warm. We tried to keep them like carpet pythons and we ended up, uh, you know, not having great success with them. Yeah. So, you know, I, I kind of got out of the diamonds for a while and then I started looking into them again and really understanding what they really were and they're, they're really such a different animal as compared to regular carpet pythons and, uh, rattles, pythons. I don't know how much you guys know about them, but you, you almost have to give them like corn snakes. Yeah. Yeah. They'll, like, know if you need great temperatures and 60 degree temperatures, they like that. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I mean, it's, they're even different than because I have my rattles and you keep them during off season. I keep them like my carpets, but during breeding season, they got to leave the room and go into an adjacent room that gets down into, you know, 50s and 40s. So it's kind of like that. I would just, is what I'm hearing. So, yeah. Yeah. What I did, uh, years ago, I might have been one of the first, first guys to breed bells in this country, but I, I experimented with them and I found that I, if I extended the cooling period for these animals, I didn't even try to breed them until after they'd already warmed up. And they would usually breed after that cooling cycle, like a month afterwards is when they started to breed. So they're very late breeders as compared to the other stakes and that, you know, I finally produced them. I was super happy. I'm like, is it kind of figured it out? And, uh, you know, that's what they do. They're very different animals just like the diamonds. So, I wish I could figure out my wellness now. And I have a great success with the wellness. Yeah. It's apparently they're, uh, not as easy as people think to breed. I've heard that a few times. And then the eggs are different. Yes. It's always the one that everybody else has success with that you're like, why? Why won't you breed for me? In my opinion. Well, some people have great success. They've got it all dialled and then they figured it out. And, you know, it's some really beautiful wellness out there too now. It's just, if you like this kind of thing, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't it? Isn't that it? That's another one that kind of, to me, I don't know, people seem to overlook it. I wasn't around it this time, but I remember people talking about like when wellness first came out and there's like $12,000 for a pair of wellness or something like that. You know, people are like, you know, just go crazy over this Woma Python. It's almost, it's, it's kind of my thing that, that I have with the whole rare reptile thing. It's like, you know, something becomes a fads. It's rare. Nobody has it. And then nobody cares about it. So did you really have a passion for that species or you just, I think if more people just bred what they liked, it would be such a better, better hobby. And, you know, it's just, who cares what anybody else is still and just, you know, do what you do and worry about it, you know, just do it good. I was in the water pythons before it was cool. Okay. That's known throughout the land is that I had my waters when they were, you know, they were just pissed off brown snake with orange bellies. So, yeah. Oh, and you might be the only guy in the world that likes water pythons, but that's okay. But I have to have them. So you're going to make them famous. Oh, and you waiting for it. That brown iridescence is just the name. Give me that pissed off brown snake that is just hideous. Yeah. Give me that one. I want that one. And then very cool. I have, I don't know if you were, I saw it in the book and I think you were, you had a book at like at your table when we were at white planes and we were talking about different things you were working on. And you had this jungle carpet thing that you were kind of doing. You're still working on that or is that, you want to talk about that? Yes. A couple of years ago, I picked up some animals from the guy named Peter Jolies, I guess that's how you pronounce his name, he was in Maryland. And he produced this really cool jungle which had these big black spots up and down the, you know, laterally up and down the sides of the snake. And I saw this thing. It's like, oh my god, this is incredible. I've got to get these. And he had them for sale and he posted them on phone at one day. And I guess I was one of the first people to see that. And of course, I contacted them instantly on it. And I ended up getting this one animal that he produced, which is outrageous. He also posted that on really white guns. I remember that the first time I ever saw the snake in one of the forums and people were going crazy over this thing. But I ended up buying that. It's sibling. I guess it was 2010 or 2011 animal and I bought two from the year newer than that. And I also ended up with the adults to produce it. So I've got that whole project now. And wow, it's definitely genetic because all the animals have these circles up and down their sides, which once again, now we get this line breeding thing going, you know, to produce a jungle with the circular patterns all up and down the sides. It's going to be incredible. You know, I'll post a picture of that on my Facebook page too. Yeah, very soon because, you know, that's going to ruffle some traitors as well, I think. It's just crazy, crazy looking. Well, you'll see. Cool. So I've got all sorts of things going on now. The female, I've read her back. I've read the two adults this few that I gave them off last year, but I definitely bet them this year. But she did lay a small clutch, but I'm not sure that they are fertile. So I'm waiting to see. Okay. But I really, next year, the really crazy male that he produced will be big enough to bring back to his mother. And that's really what I'd like to do next year. I'm really excited to see what that happens. So that's, yeah, that's something else, you know, I've got all sorts of crazy stuff. That's what I like. Cool. That's awesome. Yeah, I remember looking at that picture and thinking, wow, that's just wild looking. And I kind of have the image in my head, but I can't really remember it. So I look forward to seeing those pics when you post the picture. I'll post a picture just for you, Eric. Nice. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah. All right. It's exciting. It's fun. You know, that's a fun breeding for me because you get to put the stuff together. Not really knowing what's going to happen. And it's exciting to know, you know, it's something new and interesting, something nobody's ever seen before might pop out. And I think it's just, that's a lot of fun, you know, what we all do it. Yeah, it's like Christmas, you know, like Christmas board. Yeah. You get that feeling like when you were a kid, you know, it's like, oh, wow, I can't wait to see this. It's day 53. Why aren't you hatching? You know, like, I kind of like, oh, my gosh, you got the drugs you crazy, doesn't it? Yeah, dying over here, waiting for eggs. And then I'm going to die some more until they hatch. So, yeah. Very cool. Go ahead, Ellen. My god is, of course, the window is gone. Anyway, um, so for your approach, okay. Yeah. What do you do for feeding? Like, do you feed often, do you feed once a week, once a month? Oh, well, I can underfeed my animals actually. I figure this way, it's just, you know, these animals in the wild aren't eating every five days. And I'm not eating my giant meals every five days, you know, some of them go months at a time without even eating. So, you know, I usually, my adults, I'm usually feeding anywhere from 10 days to two weeks. The babies are usually feed, you know, maybe once a week to 10 days. So, if anything, I underfeed the animals, and especially my males, I try to keep my males more lean. I might have kept my males, maybe like you were talking about earlier, that, you know, maybe I kept my males a little too lean this year, I'm not sure. But, uh, you know, they seem to be more spunky that way, and they don't lie around, and they don't turn into blobs. So much, you know, keep them a little more on a little smaller, thinner side. You know, I've gotten some males from some people that I've just had to put on really restricted diets for six or eight months just to get them down to normal looking size, you know, that amount somehow. Yes, I've seen some animals that are just so beef. It's just not good for the animals. You don't give beef snakes in the wild. So, why should you have them to captivate, especially since you're usually just sitting around the cages all day long, not moving, not exercising, you know, right, that's good for an animal to have a big and fat. It's like people, you know, just sitting around, not healthy for the organs, puts an extra strain on their, you know, the cardiovascular system in the heart, and it's just, you know, a better success for that. I usually feed the females a little bit more towards breeding season before the breeding season comes, because what I typically do, I really back off on the feeding for in December, and then I don't even feed my animals really for two or three months to do the winter typically, and I just let them breed. That's typical what I do. What about you guys? How are you doing it? I usually do for babies probably once a week that I've been kind of been pulling off on that a little bit. For my girls, I'll feed maybe twice a month, and then boys, when I feel like they're hungry and could use a rat to make it one. I had some really big males and females when I first started with carpets on some, you know, there's really no need for 52 eggs that have a carpets on clutch. So, you know, you get, so I'm kind of trying to get them to swim down a little bit and be a little smaller, and the babies that I'm raising up are definitely not as big or monstrous as the first ones that I had here. So, uh-huh. Yeah, kind of what I'm doing here. Do you guys hear it? Do you guys hear an echo? Yeah, not on my hand. I hear it. So, maybe I'm just doing crazy. No, I hear it too. You don't have the, uh, what do you call it? On, do you? Like the radio show playing? I do not know. No? What the hell is that? Hmm. Once again, blog talk is screw this. Anyway, but I know Eric definitely feeds on the lighter side of carpets on this. Yeah. Yeah. Let me try to mess with this a minute. Go ahead, you guys go ahead. You do what you do when I'll do what I'm doing. So, um, what now we, would you, would you go for larger prey items, smaller prey items? You try to keep everybody on, you know, rats and, you know, mites. Yeah, I usually don't feed huge meals to my snakes. You know, I miss some people just, you know, especially the ball python guys. They just like, pump their animals up so they can up the breeding size in 18 months. And, you know, I don't do that, you know, you know, technically, you know, on my younger snakes, I might lose a year of breeding because I'm not pumping them up so fast. But I, I think it's just much better for the snake in the long run, you know, you know, you're gonna live a longer, healthier life. You know, I might lose that first year of breeding, but I'll make up for it later in the year or later in their life expectancy. You know, I don't think there's any reason why your snakes should be dead at the age of six or seven because they grew too fast. They ate too much. Yeah. You know, and I would agree, you can get another breeding season out of it when it's older than, you know, trying to kill it when you're getting it up to, you know, size and buy coop. So, right, right. Yeah. Yeah, it's just not worth it. Yeah. No, no, it really isn't, it's something, you know, I used to feed my animals twice a week while I was doing carpets and eating. So that was, I'm glad I got away from that. You know, for the animal's sake as well as my wallet, you know, rats caught on it. Um, for some reason, uh, the echo is coming on, uh, your, your line, Jerry. Really? Yeah, you know, I'm on speaker, dude. Well, I'm not on speaker. I'm talking actually to a headset on my phone here. That might be, yeah, that's weird. Is it, I maybe the headset would cause that? I don't know. I don't know if it's on the whole time, or just, just start. No, just recently. Oh, right. Uh, it was good when you were muted, Eric. Yeah, that's because I was meeting today when, when you were talking, I can do that. Yeah. You know, we'll ask the question and I'll meet you and then I'll meet you. Yeah, I can do that. There you go. That was a lot of the problem. It was a very bad idea. I just sent you a picture. Okay. Of the jungle? Yeah, with the spots on the side. I don't know if you can get up here. I'm not sure. People can see it, but yeah. Go ahead. Oh, and you can go on out. Okay. Yeah. Jay, how do you keep your animals temple-wise temperature? Plus. What did you say? How do you keep your animals temperature-wise? Like, what are your, what are your ranges? How do you go with your hot side, with your whole side? I have typically, well, this is one where I've been experimenting this year. I, I usually keep my hot spots at 86 degrees, which I think was a little too hot for most of my snakes. And that was during the day and I would drop the temperature to 82 at night. So what I've kind of done, I've kind of dropped that hot spot from 86 to 84 now. And, you know, I might drop through a light time temperature to 80. Okay. And what I did this past season, like, you know, I listened to a very interesting lecture, the Terry Philip game that, thinly last year, and he was saying that he really doesn't do anything with his temperatures at all. He just has one big room with one temperature and he says he has great success with animals and he doesn't get any respiratory problems. So I kind of tried to do that this year and I didn't fluctuate my temperature as much at all. I think the coldest I went to this year was 78 degrees. I'm thinking, you know, maybe I should have gone a little lower because, you know, I'm not really sure that it was successful as far as productive breeding this year. I was lucky in that everything I put together, Brad, everything was locked up multiple, multiple times. You know, every time I looked at my snake, we might have like six or eight or 10 pairs of snakes locked up breeding. But I'm not sure that it was productive breeding. It was just having fun, I guess. But we'll see. I don't know. Like I said, I tried to experiment every year because, you know, a lot of people get, you know, I'm sure have experience with the cooling and then we get snakes to get them respiratory issues. And I have to say, I didn't get a single respiratory issue. I haven't had any for quite a while at this point, which is a good thing. But that's a good thing. I don't know how many total eggs I'm going to get this year because of it. So I don't know. I don't know if that has something to do with it. I also have, each cage is individually heated. I have, you know, radiant heat panels in one of my bigger cages. Okay. And I have multiple thermostats in the rooms. You know, depending on the levels of cages, each level of cage, I have separate thermostats because, you know, the temperature at the floor is much different than the temperature at the top of the stack and rise. It's very high. So each level of cages, I run it, you know, on the thermostat. So I probably have 15 different thermostats in the snake room. But I tried to run the back ground temperature. I have a big Mitsubishi forced hot air heater thing that comes out and blows out. And that really drives out the room, though. So I might have had to be able to dry this winter too. So, you know, I don't know if anybody else has experience with this kind of thing or not. You know, traditionally, every the years I've always had my snakes incubate their own eggs with this kind of heating system in my room. It makes a lot more difficult because the room drives out the cages and I have to constantly keep moisture on the cages. And the, I know last year, a lot of the snakes were incubating the eggs when they tried to get out into the water bowls and soak into water bowls and you would get back on the eggs. I think that's the result of the air temperature being too dry and designed. Yeah. And I lost some really good costs just next year because the snakes would get on top of their eggs wet and it damaged a lot of the eggs last year. So that wasn't a good thing. So, yeah, it changed the water situation this year. I want to make sure there's a big water bowl for them to soak and then I'm going to spray the cages a little bit differently. Like I said, every year is a different thing for me. So, I'm going to have it all dialed in. Everybody has their way and I can talk to 10 different people and they choose 10 different methods of cycling their animals. And, you know, everybody has success in one way, shape, or form. You know, what do you do? What do you guys do for your rooms? For my room, I eat the room temp to 82.83 and then their cage hotspots are about 84. 85. And then the, I do have a little bit of a nitrop where it does go down to probably about 82 for their hotspots. But, and then I usually stop feeding around October and then start kind of pushing them down a little bit. And I only dip down to probably about 76. And then we start eating back up. And I want to say January, I start pumping it back up a little bit. But you'll see, you'll see locks throughout. You'll see some animals including in, you know, December and you'll see some not trying to breed with each other until April. So, really outroles. And then there are certain animals that drop down lower. Like, I take the rattles out of the room and I drop them down even lower during nighttime. But I still bump them back up into the 80s during the day. And then, and then everybody comes back together in the same room. And when eggs start firing off on our cylinders, but I normally do not let my mom's incubate. I usually take them and put them in the incubator. I tried last year to do some eternal. And I kept, I guess I picked the wrong mom's. Because I caught one trying to move the clutch into a water bowl. And I'm like, what are you doing? So, it's like, oh my gosh. Yeah. And then I found the other mom had, I took the cheat abandoned the eggs. And I took them from her and all but almost died on me. So, like, just the eggs just went down real quick. So, I guess she knew before I did that these were not good. That's pretty much what we do. And I have a bunch of different stuff, you know, between the white lips, the Amazon tree boas, the Dominican red mountain boas, all the carpet pythons, the scrubs are here. Everything's kind of welcome. I'm trying to find a happy medium. But I'm looking at like more and more animals are going to have to come out of the rooms for breed season. So, yeah. We'll figure it out, eventually. I was also at that show for Terry's talk. And I tried his method. And I had a lot of issues with it because I think the problem is doing it, you have to do his thing 100%. I think it makes sense. And I think it can be done. But I think you have to really have an ultrasound. Yeah. That's what he was using. Because if there's no temperature to drop, then I don't think that they're going to go when we necessarily think they're going to go. So, they're not going to breed in November if the temperature drops. I mean, if the temperature doesn't drop, if that makes sense. I think it's more like what you see in ball pythons, where they breed them all year long. They're following that. I think PPI was probably the ones that originally started that just straight 80, 82 degrees way. I know that they do that with their blood pythons as well. I think the only time they give a hint is when the females grab it. I don't know. I just didn't have the success. It could be that I just changed mid-season or mid. I had it one way and I changed it and totally screwed them up and didn't give them enough time to adjust. But it didn't work for me. Yeah. Interesting. I keep my babies and chondros with no heat. I don't give them any heat. They just get the room heat. What's the temperature of your room usually? Fluctuates between 78 at night and maybe 82 during the day. I don't really have too hot a hot spot. My thermostats are set at probably like 84, 85 degrees. I bump it up a little bit during once I know females grab it. That's pretty much it. I don't know. That seems to be how I've had success. I don't know. But Stephanie, it makes sense to me. And especially like you, and if you're keeping multiple species, it may be a way to keep all those species on the same program. Yeah. Like I said at the beginning of the show, I think I finally dialed it in to where I finally figured out my program. It took me four years. But I finally got it to where the girls are used to it. So. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. The picture, you know, depending on where they come from, they have slightly different requirements like this. Animals from Southern Australia, obviously need cooler temperatures. It's a program to thrive in, you know. Yeah. Closer to the equator. You know, like the Betelspythons are higher up in the more desert species. I guess cold nights have been hotter during the day and drier temperatures, not as much moisture, you know, all these factors. It's a lot of things to think about with all these different species and subspecies. Like the Diamonds are the biggest difference. You know, the Diamonds are just such a different animal. Yeah. I might have to put mine out of them. So. Yeah. Yeah. I keep mine at the bottom of the floor, like towards the floor to where it's cooler right now. That's right. I keep mine right on the floor. Yeah. Yeah. And I found that, you know, I give mine a basking spot of two hours in the morning. I set it at eight degrees right under a radiant e-panel, you know, up on a perch. So, snakes want to bath and get up there for two hours in the morning and then it just shuts off for the rest of the day. And I find a lot of them was this coat, but Diamonds are good to go right back to the floor and that where it's cool. And they seek out that coolness that's so far my experience with the animals. Now, obviously, you know, you get people like Gary Val and Dave Sutton, you know, these guys really have a gender with science. These guys are really in the know about Diamonds right now. And you should probably try to have one of these guys on your on your program and talk about Diamonds sometime. It'd be pretty enlightening. I would say a lot of people are interested in Diamonds now. We had Greg, Greg Heim on a couple weeks ago talking about Diamonds. Gary Val is kind of hard to get in touch with. Guy Gonzak. Yeah, he would be great. Absolutely. He's the guru, I would think. Yeah, I never heard of Dave Sutton. He's got him to check. Oh, he's a big guy. He's kind of like separate, but it's big as Gary Val, I think. And he definitely knows what he's doing. DMS was a DMS propagations or something. I can't remember what he calls his business, but Dave Sutton is the guy. See on the East Coast, they're on the West Coast. Is it out in the West Coast? Is it Oregon or something? Or somewhere out there? Yeah, I have to check it out. Okay, what do you have for K-Jown? Multiple things. I have all my adult females, and Nia Dasha, you know, Nia Dasha is obviously, I have to be years ago, they came out of these things called the 36-inch custom cages. I have one, two, three, four, 12. I have 24 of these cages set up on racks in the middle of my stick room. I have four high and three across the bottom, I guess. And I keep all my females in those cages, so I can stick nest boxes in there. And if they do very well in these cages, you know, I'm over in the corner, I keep waiting e-panel. And as I said, each layer, each level of cages has its own thermostat. So of each bank of 12 cages, I have one, two, three, four thermostat set up. I don't know where they are at the height of the room. And my males are keeping slightly smaller cages that are only 12 inches high. Get them from PM here. You know, the plastic cage with sliding glass doors. So all my cages have sliding glass doors. And then when my animals have been raising up, I have some various, you know, rack systems depending on the size of the animals, you know, variety of different brands. But I love sliding glass doors. I think they're great. It's just easy access to the snakes, you know, and easy to feed. You know, you need to take the glass out if I want to clean the cage. I just really love sliding glass windows, you know, in the cage. In a lot of visibility in CB animals, you know, they hold moisture well, these cages too. If I, like I said, if I want to internally incubate eggs, I can plug up some events and keep moisture in the cages pretty easily. That really works well for me. Cool. It's a way to do it. What are you doing? They say, I know you had neodeches. Did you strip here by those big neodeches? Yeah, I got rid of those good neodeches finally. We had them for the scrubs, but the problem is that they didn't have any glass doors or even private glass doors. They were just opaque doors. So you open the door and a lot of times there was, you know, an adult scrub or an adult white lip waiting for you on the other side. And, you know, you peek in and ease to the left. And when you open the door, all of a sudden he's coming at you from the right and it's like, okay, so those were annoying. Those had to go, but I have evolution reptile cages three by two by two and four by two by twos, as well as on, oh yeah. They're rack systems for my doobies and my smaller males and the baby tubs. So, right, right. Yeah, I like the cages, but the racks I still find very useful. Oh yeah, for the younger snakes, it just can't be the racks and just cannot be for a variety of reasons. I'm the oddball, the group. Yeah, yeah. Do you have a watch of the clarify? No, I use racks. Even for your adults, huh? Yeah, I keep my carpets on the smaller side. I don't know. They're not that. I don't really, I mean, they're quite content, I guess, from what I see. I don't know. I think, I think they like the security of it. Sometimes I think that can't use or more for the keeper than the cat, which is fine, you know. And I guess probably has to do with space, too, with me. I don't know. I don't know. It just seems that I have more success with it that way, but to each zone, I guess. I mean, if I had a huge place, I probably would have tons of caging and, you know. Space is an issue. That's a big issue. Yeah. I don't know. I never really saw my carpets perch, so they perch when they're young, and that was about it. I don't know if you only have a couple snakes. I think perching it is great for these animals. I think it's good for them to climb up and down. It just keeps them healthy, but you know, if you have limited space, I don't have perch immunity in my cages either. You know, it seems to do okay without perching, but for display, you've got to have perches, you know. I think it's only a way to go. Yeah. I think diamond pythons will be outside of my room, like my pair of diamond pythons, and I'll put them in a cage, because I think they just have to be kept different. Yeah. They like to perch. They definitely like to perch. Yeah. And I think the cooler ambient temperature. You know, my idea. Why don't you hear it? But yeah, I don't know. That's... I mean, it just goes to show that there's multiple two ways to keep these guys, and I think that's the cool thing about them. Now, I think if I had something that was bigger, like, you know, bridles, I would probably keep in the cage, or some of those racks that are the bigger size towns, like the real big, like the boa tubs that Vin Russo uses. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Again, I think that's plenty of room for yourself. But a lot of people have said success with those, and all the big readers use these big tubs. Yeah. A lot of snakes in a small amount of space. Yeah. I would say that the only disadvantage of that is you just don't get to see it. And I think one of the bonuses to Morellia is the fact that they do sit out in the open, you know. I think we undercut our market a lot by not promoting that. You know, somebody wants to get into a snake, maybe their first python. I think that, you know, carpet python is maybe not their first python, but you know, when they want to move on to something that they feel comfortable with and like a display animal, you know. Yeah. Carpet python seems to be a little more heartier than condos. Oh, yeah. I doubt. Yeah. And they just, well, you know, it shows to do people come up and ask you what your opinion is and how they should keep as animals. I mean, I always recommend it. It's only going to have this one or two pythons. I always recommend they have a big cage with a big perch and, you know, a hot spot up top in the best box, you know, the hide box thing. That's what usually what I tell people. I think this next year, you should be pretty happy like that. You know, people are happy to hear that kind of thing. I'm not going to be able to watch it. They give you more, you know. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I think that that's probably probably the best way to keep them, I guess. You know, if you have the room and space, I don't know. No, I feel guilty that I keep my snakes and drawers. Donning animals, like all of them, and like you walk into the room and you can see, like, tumbled them from the tubs and it's like, if Eric had the money, I would push for him. He had the space to just make nothing but display gauges because I need to watch all these bullshit moving around. Beautiful snakes. Yeah. Thanks. Welcome. Yeah. One day. Save your first friends or Facebook page. Yeah. I still didn't get that picture. Well, I'm going to go. Yeah. Really? Eric, it'd be really, right? I can't. Yeah, come on. Get it, huh? It's setting up. I keep looking. So, we talked a little bit about your, uh, your breeding and whatnot. Hold on. I'm going to leave. Why I should have questioned. So, it doesn't have to. Okay. We talked a little bit about breeding, and, uh, your approach. Um, anything, anything special that you would recommend to a first time breeder that's just going to have their first season? Oh, wow. I just got it. Holy shit. Well, well, you know, we're doing those pictures, you know. All right. Oh, when you ask those questions, I'm going to post this up. Goddamn. All right. Jake, can you go through, uh, your approach to breeding? Yeah. I know we touched on a little bit, but what do you do for, uh, how long do you cool down when you introduce males and stuff like that? Um, once again, I experiment a little bit every year, but this year I started going down probably about the second week of December, but I didn't cool much. And you only drop to temperature, like one degree at a time. So I, uh, I started, you know, I started dropping the nighttime temperature to 80, um, around December, and I stopped feeding, obviously. Um, and then into January, you know, I dropped another degree. I think I bought them about it. 78, maybe a couple of pages. I went to 77. Um, but I, uh, then I eventually dropped the nighttime or daytime temperature down to about 82, I think I went, uh, I used to drop it to 80 because I kept it at 82 this year. And I start bringing up the temperatures, I guess, probably mid-February, I start bringing them up. I started putting mistakes together in mid-January this year. I'm on New York and we had a bitter cold winter, and I don't know how much I did my snakes. Um, like I said, I had everything just breeding, like, crazy. Everything I put together, which is breed and breed and breed. Um, so that, I had no problem getting things to, to me, just a question of whether or not, you know, all that stuff is going to be viable, which is, you know, I'm waiting on that at this point. I have a few snakes sitting in nest boxes right now. Some are still going in sheds. Um, but some of the snakes, you know, they went through all the motions, they felt thick as a brick, they were big and they went through the shed, they were basking and, you know, some of the snakes started eating again. Ah, yeah, that's not such a good sign typically, but, you know, I'm still holding out because some of them still feel very thick and rock hard in the back. So, you know, making, thinking, you know, maybe they're just hungry. I found them small little meals. Yeah, they're in the nest boxes, they're still in their nest boxes. So, you know, maybe, I mean, I've started to do the thing where I, when I bring them up, I offer them a small meal, if they're not taking the breeding so quickly. And sometimes, that's like flipping a switch. All of a sudden now they're, they're just pretty much crazy. So, who knows? Yeah, that's great. Yeah. Always fun to see them breed. I love that. That's a little bit of a mistake for them. They're 99 degrees to skin a cat. So, and it's all about the breeding. So, yeah, well, everybody in that I eat. So, what I used to do with my jungles, I used to combat the males and I found that was very, it's very successful in getting, you know, viable breedings. And I throw one male in with the other. And obviously, I'd leave the one male in that I want to breed. I'd leave him in there with a female. I'd take the other one out. Watching snakes combat is, you know, the first few times you do it is pretty stressful because the snakes really go at it. You know, they really, I don't know if you've ever combat snakes. You're right. I have accidentally. Oh, no. It was one of those like, I'll put you in with your two girls. Why are you two fighting? Oh, no. So, one of those things where it's like, you know, I meant to put in a male with some females and my proven male ended up fighting with one of the females. So, it's like, I have something wrong here. And I know it's not you. So, I have seen combat and it's funny because you mentioned about being something that's important. I cheat and I'll throw a male shed in this spray bottle of water and kind of spraying that all over the rival male stage. But from what I've heard with other species, I have Australian olive python. You're right. Right. Well, we're getting close to and they're going to be big enough and old enough to breed. And I only have a tear and I keep hearing that males are not showing until they have another male around like a rival male. So, it's like, so I've been talking to a few friends who also have olives and we're going to like swap sheds or, you know, a younger male is going to come over here for the day to kind of just kick off my boys. But it takes, I could definitely see combat being something very important to these animals. Oh, yeah, we're great for carpets. And, you know, like I said, it's scary the first time you do it because you think you're saying you're going to kill each other. But I've never had any accidents, at least in my experience over the years and have been doing it for a while. The snakes usually just wrestle with each other and they kind of slam each other down in the bottom of the cage. But they ever bit each other. And the most nerve-wracking thing is when you have to reach in that cage, right in the middle of a fight and pull them out. You know, I've had them fighting it, you know, on top of me, like, all over my shoulders and my arms. And, you know, they don't bite. They don't seem to bite. At least the carpets with my thumbs don't. I don't know what I'll put on to this. Well, I had two black-faced white lips go at it and with intent to kill each other. And, yeah, I separated them and then the fight continues on top of me. So, you know, it was one of those moments. So, I can totally understand that. But, you know, it definitely can't be scary. It's difficult. If you put all the time and money into these animals and another fighting, I would be a little kind of taken aback. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I've heard, I've known people that have had males that seriously hurt each other. Yeah. And not even during breeding season, just out of breeding season, just put the males in with each other, I guess, while cleaning cages or something. And, you know, one would just shred the other one, you know, maybe, you know, ripping the snake open, basically, to the point where the snake needs stitches, that kind of thing. Oh, get to be careful. Get to be careful. You do. You really do. So, now, what advice would you give a first-time breeder as being something important to have to do who will watch for when it comes to breeding season for carpets? Well, you have to be patient because if you're not patient, you're going to be frustrated because, you know, breeding carpets is easy, but it's not that easy. And there's a lot of things you have to think about. You know, a lot of people get to be snakes, you know, these first-time snake guys that come to the show is, "Yeah, I want to breed these things. I want to breed these things." And, you know, they want to breed them. And I think about breeding them before they even know how to maintain them in captivity. And that's probably the worst thing that you want to hear from somebody wanting to buy some of your snakes because you know, these people really don't know what you're talking about and start to worry about the snake. No one's going to be a good home. I just kind of buying the snake because he's just buying it to make money. You know, I've actually talked to people out of buying some of my animals because they just didn't think that these snakes were going to get well cared for, you know. And obviously, if I'm breeding these snakes, I care about where they go. It's a lot of people don't do that, but it's nice to know that at least these people have some semblance of an idea of what it takes to maintain the snakes. And I have always had people asking me, you know, for recommendations when it comes to breeding seasonals, you know. I guess that you've got to be patient. You've got to be careful. Not cool them too much. You've already got to drop the temperatures to 50 degrees. I mean, that's going to kill your snake. It's going to have a horrible pneumonia in the snake. You've got to be careful with that. And don't get frustrated if it doesn't happen the first year because a lot of times, you know, even with the best breeders, you know, you're going to get less snakes to breed all year and still not going to produce anything. So you can't lose faith if it's something you really want to do. You just wrap it up to experience and, you know, wait until the following year and just change your techniques a little bit and talk to other breeders, you know. Learning from those people that have already walked that line, you know, you can follow them and walk in their footsteps and learn a lot. The more breeders you talk to, the more you're going to, you know, you're going to get you know, the right answers for your situation, because not everybody's situation is correct either. So it will live in warm climates. Some people live in cold climates. So you have to think about that. Some people live in very dry air regions. Some people live in super moist regions, you know, all that type of stuff. You should keep hanging and how you're going to have to maintain them in your house, you know. That would change, you know. I would say that to take another breeder's formula and use it as kind of like a guideline, but you've got to make it your own, because, you know, Eric and I at one point lived five minutes down there from each other and had drastic different breeding approaches and both had success. So, oh yeah, that's a thing. So, yeah, yeah, that's the difference. So, Jay, what do you think about the carpet market? Do you think it's kind of, do you see it progressing? Do you see it kind of picking an uptick in the interesting carpets I found, especially with the lawsuits and bans coming down on certain other species? Yeah, well, you know, it's just, I think a lot of people really, you know, were the boas, the bone morphs came out a few years ago and all of a sudden a big one thought of ball python morphs. Really, you got a lot of people interested in snakes that normally wouldn't be interested in snakes. I think a lot of people got into that because they thought they could make an easy buck. Right, as you are probably aware of and a lot of people got into it, they probably should have been into it. You know, as we see it, they were probably in for the wrong reasons. I don't see that happening with the carpet python market as much. I think the people that are into carpet pythons are into carpet pythons because I really like carpet pythons, not because you're trying to make a quick buck, you know, so it's just a difference there. And now, you know, with all these new things coming out with carpet pythons and it's more the ability to breed different new up-and-coming morphs and, you know, cross things, you know, I think it's exciting a lot of people. I think the big difference between, you know, that like the ball python market and the carpet python market is, at least when people are breeding the python regis, the royal pythons, when they're breeding ball pythons, they're only breeding ball pythons together. They're not intermingling different subspecies, which I think is the biggest difference between carpet pythons and ball pythons. You know, we've got so many people cross breeding so many different things with carpets. I think, you know, there's all sorts of crazy stuff coming out, but in a way, it's kind of polluting the market because you've got a lot of mutts now, mut carpet pythons. You've got this thing that's got heart diamond, heart guttles, heart jungle, and heart ery angina all in the same snake, which, you know, depending on how you look at it, is usually good or bad, you know. And so I think people view the carpet python market a little differently than that aspect as compared to the ball python market as well. You know, it's the ball python market. You know, you're just getting a ball python, all sorts of different kinds for all ball pythons with the carpets. You can go to what he shows. You really don't know what you're getting. You go to somebody's table, especially some of these big vendors that carpet pythons, but what is it? Is it a coastal? This is a jungle coastal. I enjoy it. Thanks to the diamond. You just don't know a lot of times. Right. Big difference. I mean, I always found also with the other animals, you get an albanoboa and it might be, I mean, or a ball python, you know, you get these morphs and they all look the same. And they all kind of, I know that the only one that really had any kind of percentage of this one's better than that one would be the pied, because then you want more white versus more pattern. With carpets pythons, you can kind of tell which is a better caramel just by looking at. And there's this swing of, you know, higher-end animals and lower-end animals and the caramel for this price and caramel for that price. And, you know, you get the variation between everything. So it kind of holds on to the morph a little bit longer, in my opinion. So it's kind of, you can't just go to anybody to get your stuff. You have to go to the right place. I think he just dropped off. No! Yeah. Oh, no. Hi. I don't think, I don't think he can call back in because we're in... We will try. Maybe he'll try. I'm going to message him as we sit here. Yeah, I think that might, I would just comment on the, I think the morphs and the morph crosses are something that people get. It gets people that are non-carpet people into the armpit pythons. I think it draws all the attention, the bright stuff. But I think once people get in, they might start to gravitate towards maybe working with a specific subspecies or looking for pure stuff. You find your niche. I mean, when everybody starts, we always had, everybody, everybody started. You always had that much. I mean, I had a 50/50 jungle coastal, was one of my first carpet pythons. And she was awesome. Weird looking. Right now, I couldn't tell you what the hell was there. But, and then as you start moving towards your projects, what you really want, you maybe start letting those go by the wayside and stick to the more pure stuff of what you want. Everybody finds your niche. Yeah, absolutely. I don't know. No, he didn't, he can't, I don't think he's going to be able to call back in. I'm trying to message him now. Blackpods, you suck. Yeah, I think that's probably why it was echoing like it was. Hold on, he's calling me. Go ahead, Owen, take it for a second. Good, good, good, good. So, it's just like one of those things where after you get your association, people are I.J. people, people are diamond people, people are coastal people, you kind of let certain ones go by the wayside. It's almost every single one of us has that one in the collection still that is that, you know, first carpet python, that weird one that you'll never give up, but it doesn't really fit any of your breeding projects or it might and you'll breed it once and you'll be like, okay, I was done never again. I know Howard has his block head, which is his diamond jungle, something or other. I know Eric had one for the longest time. Like I said, I had a jungle coastal female that I ended up getting rid of after I bred her one year. And it's just the way it goes. You pick your focus and you move forward and of course there are other people who don't mind been mixing and the mutting and other things like that. But you know, it's almost like you come in and then you find where you really like and that's what I like about diamond, what I like about carpet on so much. And Moralea, just in general, you come in and you find what fits you best and what you like the best. You like red, you either go red coastal or you go brittle. You like the bluish, you can do xanics, you can do inlands, you like black and yellow, you can do jungles, you like black and yellow, but you don't really want to do too much work, need your diamonds, the albinos and all the new projects coming down the pipe. And what I love is that there's always something on the horizon. And especially with now the albino coastal that have been put out, it's something else now. And I know that we talk about, you know, snows and goats and other things that will involve, I'm sorry, snows and sun glows that will involve albinos that has to come from the Darwin. And this was back when Darwin's first came in with albinos and they were being mixed between the IJ and Darwin. And people were always interested to see how the IJ cross albinos would look compared to the Darwin albinos. And they see, I can see some contrast, some difference. And it would be very cool to see a pure coastal albino jaguar. And then all those other morphs too. And just see how they would stack up against the crossed albinos. So I'll definitely be first one on the list for some albino coastal when they show up. In 10 years from now, when I'm two-nose of them, and then carpet python is still a real life. But it'll be something I'll try to get to if I can. So that would be awesome. But it's like what Eric's teacher is going to say for the longest time when that one is the you do you boo boo. I'm going to get him that. He's going to wear it and everything. I'll make him wear that to everything for you guys. So that'll be fun. This is the part of the show when he is in here. And I can say whatever I want. So it's awesome because from right now he has five seconds before he buys everybody drinks at carpet test. Yup, done. Sorry. But speaking of carpet test, if you have not gotten your teacher yet, you should do it immediately. We're running at a time and the booster closes on the ninth. So don't delay. It doesn't matter if you're going to come to the east coast carpet test. You don't have to. Maybe just want a really cool shirt or we're going to go to the northwest or southwest. Southwest carpet test. You can pick up a shirt too. All proceeds are going to USR to help with the more specifically going to the lawsuit fund to help get the animals that were put on the in curious species act off it so that we can continue doing what we love to do. So definitely do that also. You can give donations as well. If you don't want to buy a t-shirt, just want to throw four bucks in. That's cool too. Also, if you are coming to the east coast carpet test or even if you're not, if you feel like contributing, the auction will be up soon. We're going to be looking for new things for people to come. We're going to auction them off at the east coast carpet test. We're probably going to do the same thing we did last year where we will throw all the items up for bidding on the pick of the week or merely Python radio Facebook page. You can bid on those and then if you come to Carpetfest, you can bid on the items again. So if you can't make the Carpetfest and you still want to bid, you can go ahead and bid and then if you don't get beat at Carpetfest, the item is yours. So that will be there. That will be awesome. We'll ask everybody to please do that and give something so we can give it to U.S. Arc and we can continue on with that fun stuff that we're trying to get repealed. If you are coming to Carpetfest, I'll be probably putting out the list. Now let's say tomorrow, I'll do that tomorrow, that we're going to try to get started getting together. Who's coming? More importantly, who's coming with us to Clyde Peeling's Reptiland on Sunday as well as who's bringing what food to Carpetfest. You know, we can't have everybody show up with all brownies. So we're going to try to get everybody to mix and match, contacting me about something. Also, if you are willing to take a stint of grilling on my grill, let us know what that too. We're going to try to get it so that everybody has time to cook as well as everybody has time to drink and party and do whatever it is you're going to do. So it's going to be a fun time and hopefully if you are in the area, you can make it out to Carpetfest and you know, you'll come out for the ones for the wrong. If you've been to all the Carpetfest, I would definitely recommend coming to this one because it's my first time hosting it so you have to come. So that will be a fun, cool trick. And if you are in the Southwest or Midwest or any other place and you want to start up your own Carpetfest, you're welcome to ask me or Eric any questions of what you have to get you started. We would invite it more and more that you guys getting stuff started. We want there to be a Carpetfest in every direction of the compass. This way, no matter where you are, you can go and you can hang out with your Morelia family. It's an important thing to do in my opinion. But also what I'll do is while we got the time, I don't really know what Eric is doing or if we can get Jay back on, hopefully we can. It was kind of kind of sucky that everything got cut off right before we got to the good stuff as well. You can get to say goodbye and everything with that. And I know we've been trying to get Jay on for a while. So if anything, this will just lead to us having that and come back a few times, which we do that often. But what I will do is while we just go into what's going on over here at Rogue, what I have going on here is nothing, not a zilch, nothing. We haven't gotten any eggs yet with Carpet both on. So I did move them in December, so I may have shot myself in the foot. We're waiting on potentially one, two, three, four females of Carpet both on and two bread live females, maybe. I'm not saying anything and that kind of been kind of quiet. This whole reading season, I didn't want to give you guys any kind of hope or have anybody waiting wanting any animals that I might be producing. I'd rather much rather tell you guys after I get the eggs. And then we can go from there. We'll see how this goes. I know a few people weren't here to see if I'd even have any kind of success at moving animals mid-breeding season. And trust me, if I could, I would not have done it. So we shall see. So we'll hopefully get something going on here. But the next show I have is the 25th in Hamburg, Pennsylvania. If you are in the area, you want to come out. It'd be cool to see it. Tough Morelia. Eric should, if would, could be making an appearance every once in a while. He decides that you need to come off his little throne and, you know, rub elbows with the peasants, the non-high-end people. So we get to go and bring him on to Hamburg and he sits around and he tries to sell my carpet pipes on for me. If anything, all he ends up doing is just talking with people. And so I've had to put him to work. Also, April 25th will be the debut of the new rogue logos and all other fun stuff. So you're wandering around Hamburg and you are in the spot near my table but you don't see the normal gear. Just yell for Owen and I'll answer. So we're still there. We're still in the same spot. So don't be too concerned. It'll be okay. So that's what we've gotten there. As far as anything else, if you guys, once you can go over to releaplifeonradio.com, check out all the things that are going on there. I know Eric is going to start taking suggestions for the carpet pipes on Hall of Fame, which is we're going to go through big name carpet pipes that have their own kind of lineage, their own kind of stuff, as well as various other things that happen with a morph. So animals like Benjamin, who was a high, very sought after bloodline of Jaguar. So we're going to review him as well as certain other animals like Covergirl and things like that, that this way people kind of have an idea of what it means when someone says I have an MBB line jag. It's a madam blueberry line jag. So this way we're going to have something on the website that can show you a bio of madam blueberry. So you know really what you're getting into with that because these are some of the questions that these animals have been for a very long time it's coming up to of being bred or not being involved and breathing. So more, fewer and fewer people actually know what these little hyphens and there's some stuff came from. So we're going to, this way we can go back in a little bit and basically just try to get education out there. That's where you guys all know what's going on and what decisions you can make and it's where you're not going to lost in all the stupid little letters and nicknames and things that people have for the bloodlines or their animals. So just another way we're helping you guys out. If you have any suggestions on guests or shows please stop them at info at merley@playthonradio.com. If you want to get in touch with Eric you can email him at eric@eb@merley.com or eric@eb@merley.com. I don't know what to stop. It's not important. I don't care if you guys can reach him or not. That's a problem. You guys can figure it out. If you want to get, if you are interested in helping out with privatefests or anything else we got going on as well as if you're interested in contributing to the tip of the week where you're going to start getting up and running again. You can also email eric@eb@merley.com or you can get in touch with me through rogue. You can do that at roguereppiles@gmail.com or you can go on to rogue-reppiles.com and message me through my website or you can just find me on Facebook before you can throw a rock with a note through my window and I'll get it there too. I would like for that last one not to happen but if you must do much so we can definitely do that. If you think you want to be a guest on Maralea Python radio you can go ahead and do that contact us at info@merley.com. We're always looking for somebody interesting to talk to and all that other fun stuff. I'm back! You're too late. I've sold half your collection and you're everyone who's in your shot drink. Yeah, me and Jay were having our own show. You leave me here. You're son of a bit. I'm sorry. I was talking to him. I said oh man, I forgot it. I'm going to throw out his info. He's going to come back for a round too. He said he's going to be a white plane and Jay said he's probably going to bring some of the crazy stuff so I think I might have to make a trip. I might have to make a trip. I think he said it was some time in April. You keep talking. I'll find it. Give me a second. April 12 maybe. But yeah, check him out at that show. His Facebook page is BestBoids and his website is BestBoids.com and his website is not completely up to date. He said that he was having some issues. With the server or something like that. April 19th. April 19th. April 19th. April 19th. April 19th. I'm when is Hamburg? April 18th? I was 25th. 25th. 25th. 25th. You got excited. 25th. You want to erase myself and the audience. We also threw out everything. So you did all the... Yeah, I told them that you're getting rid of all your pythons and it started to breed teeny pigs. That's great. Yeah. There's no more some guinea pigs. That's what you think. The black white hooded guinea pig. Black white, you know, the crazy haired, the no haired. Oh yeah, come on now. I love it. Yeah, we were getting that crazy echo. As soon as we get that echo, man, I know that the show is that the caller's gonna go down real quickly. Yeah, I damn blog talk. So that was really difficult to have to mute that. You were in your mind over it. I mean, I could feel your pain all the way from over here of how badly you hated this echo. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I hate it when you got a guest on and they bring, you know, and it's like an exciting guest and then it gets screwed up all but, you know, the audio gets screwed up. You know, I remember when it went haywire when Sean Hefflich was on and it was like, no. Yeah. So it's always when the ones that, you know, you finally get them to come on and, you know, because I... I don't know if everyone was still alive, the whole system would crash the day we had him on. I mean, I'm telling you. That's how that went well. Yeah. No kidding. So, yeah, so check out what Jay has going on. He has some cool projects. And, you know... You're at a show, sit down and talk to him. He'll just, it's just, he's really cool to talk with and he loves showing pictures and talking animals and he also loves getting, he gets invested in just in what you got going on. So it's really cool. Yeah, I did notice that it kept asking us what we, what we did. And, you know, I often say like, well, they don't want to hear what we will do. Don't you want to hear what you do? And it's funny to tell because it's like, it almost seems like he's not plugged in but he is because like, he knew what I was doing with different animals every time I spoke with him because, well, I saw you did this this bit. I'm like, well, I hope you see that. So it's like, it's a cool guy and I've always liked them. So, but if you're not careful, you will spend hours in front of his table. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. When, when he called me earlier in the week and he's, we were talking about the show and I said, yeah, it's about two hours, two and a half hours. He says, wow, that's a really long time. I said, you think it's a long time. But trust me, it's not. When I was on the phone, he's like, man, you were right. That time flew by, you know. So, um, so yeah, I guess, uh, we'll, uh, we'll wrap up and, uh, get the heck out. Yep. All right. So from Moraleo Python radio, you can download and subscribe to us on iTunes. Did you already go over this stuff? I did not continue. I like to know what you want you for. Okay. Um, yeah, you can download the show for free and subscribe over on iTunes. It's probably the best way to, uh, to get the show. Um, if you're just getting into carpets, I would say, check out Moraleo Python radio.com for everything. Moraleo. It's, I call it the Moraleo hub. Um, you got species list, morph list, breeding, breeder list, uh, people that have been on the show, tons of information there. And it will sort of point you out into the world of, uh, Moraleo. So, um, definitely a place to, uh, check out. Uh, if you have a questions, comments, uh, feedback on the show, um, you know, et cetera, you know what I'm looking for. I'm going to put this out there of that. I want to get a vet on. We're looking for a doctor of veterinary medicine. Not, yeah, a good dude who is very good at getting drugs, saying it won't inject anything into the snake. And actually, you know, DVM. So, um, if you know one who would be willing to, you know, burn an hour with us or two hours with us, uh, we'd love to have one on to talk about, uh, what, what we're looking for, trying to, what you can do with sequences and what drugs are good, what drugs are bad, um, where you should take an animal, if it does get ill, um, proper quarantine procedures, fun stuff like that. So, might, uh, might laugh. No, don't say that words. Anyway, um, if you, if you, if you do know one, if you have one, if your friends is the one, if you are one, and you want to just come and talk as we know that, you know, vet eats pretty crazy hours and, you know, long days and the last thing you do, all you want to do is come talk to us, chuckleheads for two hours, but, you know, if you could, that'd be awesome. Uh, it has been one of the requested shows that, uh, apparently you guys want to hear is, you know, medical talk. So, uh, maybe something a little more advanced, you know, uh, we're, uh, for the advanced keeper and, and different things, um, if it, if it doesn't work, we can always take one of your snakes and fake that it's sick and then go into the vet office, you and I, and just have like a hidden microphone and then just talk a lot. And then not let them leave the room until they answer all these questions that we have. So, yeah. There's, um, there's a couple of the shows that I'm working on, uh, that, uh, I think will be pretty cool. I think it's time for another, uh, carpet python round table and maybe, maybe even throw a chondra round table in there and, yeah, etc, etc. But, um, so stay tuned for those, uh, those episodes. If you have, uh, uh, maybe something, uh, maybe you're a, a more advanced carpet python keeper and there's a topic that you would like to hear about. Um, feel free to drop us a line at info@mariahpythonradio.com. Um, and we appreciate, um, you know, if you're going to send us, uh, some info and a guest that you like and you have a way to get in contact with them. Just send that along with it. And, uh, we'll do our best to try to, uh, to get them on. Um, you get Miley Python radio points for, uh, yeah. And he's on, and he's on to a potential guest, by the way, the points mean nothing, but you can have them. So, yeah. Uh, so, yeah, like, um, like our Facebook page, Mariah Python radio, uh, you can follow us on Twitter at Mariah Python, uh, the Carpetfest. Uh, so far we have three dates. Uh, for the year, we have 530, which is the Northeast, uh, in, uh, Birdsboro, PA, uh, in, uh, September 12th, we have the Northwest, which is, uh, in Seattle, I think. Um, and then what's in the Seattle area? And then the, uh, Southwest now is, uh, on June 19th. And I'm not sure the more, uh, info I get of the exact place, it's at prehistoric pets. Um, you can check out Carpetfest.homestead.com for more updates. Um, and you can also follow us on Facebook and Twitter at Carpetfest for more info. Um, as far as myself, ebmariah.com. I did have, I do have this cool thing now that, uh, through my website, I have a store setup, uh, and that store setup goes to my Facebook page as well. So whenever I post anything to the store on my website, it also posts to the store on my Facebook page. And you can buy snakes. Oh my God. What? How high end is that? Watch out, baby. Uh, and, uh, yeah, it's so funny. This is a funny story. I, uh, I would, I would say that if you're looking to track your reptiles, my recommendation would be, uh, I'll scan. So the other day, uh, I forget what we were talking about. We were talking about something and you sent a picture of your egg box with your little earth scan thingy on it. So yeah, and you were like, I hate you so much. I hate you. So we look at the little reptile skin on the bottom and shut up and you're like, how high end is that? I'm like, shut up. It's like, it's another year. So yeah, I'm really digging the program. It's really cool. You love it because you can scan it in from the egg. You set, you set up the clutch data when you'd be eggs or eggs and put that down. And then with the baby's hatch, you can link them to the clutch, which is also linked to the parents. So you've already got the family tree thing going and you told me apparently you can just print out labels for when you take them to shows or for shipping and you can print out feed cards and all that crap does pretty much everything for you. And I will be getting it at some point. So yeah. I did use it before on my Android and I didn't like it. Now I use it on my iPhone and oh man, it's just great. Okay. Yeah. That's a bad deal. Yeah. So what I have now is like I said, so once I have animals available, which is going to be real soon because I think about a year, the 2014s are almost a year old and we'll see which are the whole backs and which ones are going up on for sale. So I'll be looking for that. So you can either find it on the Facebook page or over on my website, ebemoraly.com. You can click on the tab that says store and on the website, it's the tab that says available. You can follow me on Twitter, Instagram and also subscribe to the newsletter. I do a newsletter and send out little blurbs and whatnot. And usually when I put things available, if you subscribe to the newsletter, I usually put that whatever's available first to those people that are subscribed. So you kind of get first picks of what's available if you're subscribed to the to the newsletter. And then as far as myself, if you have any questions comments or anything about an animal, you can contact me at eric@ebemoraly.com. I've got some cool stuff for this season. I just had a citrus tiger lay from a super caramel jag. Super caramel zebra jag, which should be pretty wild. Got some sun glows and pet albino stuff in the incubator. So hopefully we'll have some of that. Got a clutch of zebra albinos about the lay and some tigers. It's going to have some cool tiger stuff this year. So if you're interested in any of that, check out the site. You can go to the 2015 breeding page and you can see what pairings I got. And tell me if you're interested in anything. Get you on the waiting list and we'll go from there. That's all I got, Owen. Well, I kind of already went through all everything I got. I have no base at this point. And I'm not saying what I'm reading because I'm not even sure if they're going to have any. So. All righty then. There we go. I just did it. Hamburg is the 25th. We hope to see everybody out there else that it might be crashing your but with me. I said that every once in a while you do come off your high end horse and you know rub elbows with the peasants. So, you know, people are going to think I'm such a tool. I'm really not that much. I love it. I love it. Dude, they asked about you. And I go, he's too high end for this. And they go, oh, oh my goodness. That's all I had to say. That's all I had to say. I'm really not that high end people. I mean, too late. It's over. That's all stems. This all stems from me wanting to come out of it. And how I'm crushing. Yeah. How do you want your logo to look? I want it to look high end. Oh, you're so high end. Look, it was the problem is that you did that in a message group between me, Zach, you and Matt, which is the message group that's always constantly going on. And you're like, exactly asked you what you want your logo to look and you said high end. And I said, what the hell is high end to me? Like, so that was, and that was, now you just like die. So, all right. I just have to throw it out there every once in a while that I'm really not that I'm really not a dick. Wait, wait, I'm already, I'm already painting that picture. It's like, you know, they have to ask me where the hobbit is. All those sort of stuff. Great. So, well, anyway, that's what's going on over here. But if you're interested, we have very few 2000 babies left. Virtually no armals. I'm down to the two thing. I'm the one caramel jag. So, if you want these things, you don't wait. Tigers, red light, some jags and some other unrelated tigers with two plus tigers here. As well as we have the making red mountain bows. We're down to our last boy. We got one boy and four high females. So, we're almost out. And that's it. Those are the only dimensions I have left. And you can use it all eating frozen thawed, tented rodents with gusto and a growing pretty big drawn hoppers now. So, they're moving up in the world pretty, pretty nice. Starting to develop some really nice colors. If you're interested, don't wait. Let me know. We may have litters from them this year. I'm not sure. So, like I said, we know fricking idea what's going on over here. So, definitely come check us out. And we'll figure something out with that. Anyways, what we will say is, thank you all for stopping by and listening. And we will catch you all next week for some more Moralia Python radio. Good night. [BLANK_AUDIO]