Morelia Python Radio

Bloods and Short tail pythons with Lon Deixler.

In this episode we are joined by Lon Deixler and we will be discussing Bloods and short tailed pythons. We will break down Lon's approach to keeping, breeding and some of the projects that he is working on. Lon has also recently made the move to adding carpet pythons to his collection so I am sure we will be hitting on some carpet talk.

Duration:: 2h 34m
Broadcast on:: 25 Mar 2015
Audio Format:: other

Hey Chad Brown here, you may remember me at the line back in the NFL, or at the reptile breeder in the on the cold zone. I've been hurtful since I was a boy, and I've dedicated my life to advancement in the industry, and educated the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breathing and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Markland and I create the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site, bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit TheRptileReport.com every day to stay on top of the latest reptile news and your information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news, photos and links so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. The reptile report offers powerful brandy and marketing exposure for your business, and the best part is, it's free. If you're a buyer or breeder, you've got to check out the reptile report marketplace. The marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling destination, full of features to help put you in touch with the perfect deal. Find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system, search by sex, weights, morph, or other keywords, and use our Buy Now option to buy that animal right now. Go to marketplace.the reptilereport.com and register your account for free. Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptile's account to earn free tokens with each shipping label you book. Use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum mad. It also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page. Buyer and her selling? To ship your reptiles.com, take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. Ship your reptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use ship your reptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates and materials needed to ship your reptile successfully live customer support in our live on time arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptilereport.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace. Find that perfect pet or breeder. And visit shipreptiles.com to ship that animal anywhere in the United States. We are your one stop shop for everything reptile related. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Hello. To another episode of Moralia Python radio tonight we are talking with Lon Dijkslur. I don't think he actually has a snake company but Lon deals with a lot of bloods and short tail guns and that's what we are going to be talking about. As of recent though he has caught the carpet python bug. Lon is the only place where our two bloodlines shall meet. Yes. This is true. So apparently block talk has a new system here. We have no idea what is going on. Hopefully we don't have any issues but so far so good. Let's see what is going on. I think, yeah, here I got the info. It is official that the northwest carpet fest is going to be September 12th. September 12th. Looks like Doug Taylor will be hosting it again and that's in Mill Creek and Amy. Amy will, I hate when my phone buzzes. I'm trying to pull up her email. I believe it's Amy. Do you have that in front of you? You probably don't. No, I don't want anything in front of you. I don't want anything in front of you. I have all the information on carpet fest. Here we go. It's A-I-M-E-E-K-E-N-O-Y-E-R at gmail.com. She's going to be doing the putting everything together. If you are interested with anything in attending details, I don't know if you want to go. If you're in the east you want to go. If you want to go to the east one and then go to the west one. If you want to meet somewhere in the middle and start your own, that's fine. The information will all be up as well. I think they're launching, you said, a Facebook page soon, correct? They're going to launch a group. They're going to have a group. Okay, group. All the information will go through the carpet fest Facebook page. So, northeast, northwest, all that will be on that same page so that people don't get confused. Also, everything will be on the website. I don't know why. I can't get that switched over to carpetfest.net. When I look at it on my Twitter, when I go and I look into edit the site, it says carpetfest.net. But in order to get to the actual website, you have to put in carpetfest. homestead.com. I don't know if they're slowly switching it over or what. I don't know. You made it. Is there an IT? There's like a help thing you can call? Yeah, I waited on the phone for hours for that. But anyway, a more optimistic news. How is Jim in Morgantown? I see that he-- That was my Google bot. Well, you know, he was in the Bahamas being a nation to float. He got on to some cat and ran and got himself hurt. You know, he comes up to me today and he's like, "This looks swollen. I'm a Jesus Christ." So, you know, long story short, he went over to urgent care. And he's fine. He's just an idiot. So, he will be. All right. Okay. Okay. Good to hear. Good to hear. In U.S. ark news, U.S. ark added the retic and the anaconda to the lawsuit. And he's also filed for an extension to see if they can postpone the, I guess, when the law would actually take effect. So, I think, I don't know how that will go. I'm not really sure. Yeah. Hopefully they would. I don't know. Would it matter? You know? I mean, I guess give people more time to buy a retic that they wanted or-- Give more people time to-- At least give them more time to kind of move things around and counteract some stuff. I don't know. I wonder if it probably does make a difference somewhere, I guess. Yeah. I don't know. But anywho, they're doing that, which is good. So, they're hard at work for that. I don't know. As far as I had my first clutch on the ground, which is always exciting. It was an albino to a caramel head albino. Repeat pairing. So, hopefully this year, I would get a nice albino caramel or AKA sun glow. Now, I'll see. Now, this is a caramel albino cross with just an albino, correct? Yes. So, the sun glows you've been producing are caramel albinos. Yes. What does this super caramel albino look like? Have we done that yet? Yeah. I believe Ollie made that. Okay. I would need to see this. Yes. More intense. And/or do that. I mean, what? Yeah. It's more intense. It's like a caramel. All right. You know. Did you say you're going to do that or you're going to watch? I didn't know what you're talking about. I don't know what you're saying. What? I just caught that. I kind of went through there. Almost by it. Yeah. Yeah. They definitely have a look to them. I have that one hold out. Such a horrible feeder. Can't get it to eat worth nothing. Yeah. So, I don't know. Hopefully maybe, you know, I could produce a couple more of them. Yeah. It's funny because my Breville's are breeding right now. And I still got coastals and stuff breeding. So it's like, everybody's a spring breeder. So it's like, I don't know. No idea what that is. What a strange season this is, man. It's super late. Super, super late. You know? You only think going through the Breville's. It's messing me up. So. Yeah. It's kind of weird when you have carpets going. Where you got brettles going before your carpets. Get away before like, you know, the coastal and like, this is make no sense. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully, we did have a bit of bad news. The clutch at me and Zach were together on. We only had two viable eggs out of it. Oh. Yeah. He had, I think it was 12 total. And they were full of slugs. Didn't that take in the teeth? I know you guys are looking forward to the stripes in there. So you're just hoping for two sets of twins and nothing but stripes. So. Yeah. Well, we'll see. I guess there's a next year. It comes along with the territory. I know Zach's kind of beat himself up about it. But it could be the small male. I mean, we did use this. The male was really, really small. I don't know if that would actually say he was in the shower with his clothes on. And that's where we find it. Yeah. You know, so. Okay. Yeah. Hopefully, he's gone up there. So, yeah, we'll see what happens with that. And then, you know, if they come back really nicely striped, what just do a repeat pairing? That's all. Yeah. Give the male another year to grow up and see how things roll. Yeah. I know he said he tweaked things a little bit. I don't really quite know what he tweaked. But I know he didn't do the feed on the warm up. I don't know if that has anything to do with it. You know. I'm not sure. Something. I'm aware of it. You're a proponent of the mumup and then feed him because I've been from pretty good success with the, because I showed you the picture of the one red tiger blasting belly up. And she'd eaten a few days before. And I'm like, well. Okay. I guess pregnant females would eat. So. Yes. It's you. We were talking before the show and it was kind of a weird season to where. Animals. I thought were gravit. Yeah. And they were locked up. Yeah. And I was like, huh? Either they really enjoy sex. Or more. Or more likely. And I have no idea what we're doing. Right. Yeah. So. Yeah. That was, that was pretty interesting. I really believe that I have two more females that I would almost bet are gravit. They had their pre lay sheds. So. I should be looking at eggs from zebra head albino in. A couple weeks and citrus tiger in. Maybe a week, week and a half. You know, it's thickening. Um, you know, I've seen more locks out of the entire year. Who's that? The Dominican Red Mountain boas and the Amazon tree boas. So what you're saying, Owen? I should read the. Read the most. Yeah. Become a bow reader. And now I'm going to kill myself. You'll excuse me. We can corner the market. No. No. I don't want to do it. Yeah. No. That's cool. In my opinion. You know what, you know what, Boa as of late really has me. Is it doom rolls, Boa? Did, um, did Todd have them? Boas. I don't. He had the. Um. What do you have? You had some kind of. Yeah. See, the problem is, it looked like a normal retail to me. And I know there are people who were at Todd's table or Todd himself right now. He was like screaming at the phone. Because I know he does. Todd did say he listened to us when he cleans cages. So it could be throwing something at the phone right now. I have no flip an idea of what they were, but they were both. Good. I think he works with the same, um, Boa's that. Um, Matt works with. Hold on. I'm going to look it up. Oh, no. Um, that's, that's what Google's for, my friend. Let's see what, uh. Yeah. You go ahead and talk and tell me about, uh, well, they, he had six of them. And the one he had, uh, that was really, really pissed off. And he labeled it as like, um, look how cuddly and sweet I am. This thing was doing nothing but open mouth facing at like whatever came by. So it looked pissed the entire time. And he had six of them, so they're all there. And then I come back around like, stop two hours later. And all of them are gone except the cuddly one. And they removed the label that said, look how cuddly I am. So I guess they're trying to move him through. But yeah, I mean, those Boa's went. They went quickly. It was, it was pretty nice. So obviously there's something there, but again, I can't be a Boa brother. I just can't. Can't be dominant. I love the Boa's. My boys are cool. The Dominican. I don't know why I bred them because apparently I enjoy heartache. Like, you know, it's a family. I enjoy losing my mind trying to rake out tacos. But, um, the Amazons, I just, I didn't even do anything to them. They've been together in the same cage since I got them. And now all of a sudden I'm just deciding that the mood is right, apparently. And talking with Nick, which apparently he's mad at you. Um, why? Apparently you, you won't let him on the roundtables here. And, uh, I will let him on the roundtables, but it's kind of hard to argue with the guy that wrote the book. I mean, what do we all get to do, just be like. Yeah. He's a jerk. Thanks a lot. Went right under there. It was so fast, but it was, um, he was like, he's, he's talking to me. He goes, uh, cause he and I were talking about how the move may have affected my breeding. And he goes, so the only things that are breeding for you are the things that really don't give a damn and will breed whenever they feel like it. I'm like, yes, but all of a sudden now in one second, Nick has like totally defeated me and it's like, oh, so nothing's going to work this year, but the bow is. Oh, I hope not. So it's, you know, we will see. But yeah, you could have him on the roundtables. Well, yeah, you know, the thing of it is is that I was just really looking for, uh, a, um, I guess some more topics, you know what I mean, like. Oh, I know. But again, I'm just leaving you under a bus. But, um, it's nice. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, again, I wish I knew more about boys. Because I really know that there was something, something about those boys that was more than just their retail. So. Yeah, I'm finally on their site, but. They might not have them listed or something. Uh, let's see, it says. That was news inventory. Anything, no. No, about facility. Oh, there's a cool picture with him with, uh, what's his name, facility? Yeah, no. I don't know. I guess what just looked like. What's that? Yeah, I guess. Yeah. If you laugh, Todd, and Todd will be like, there's this boy, you dumb ass. And I'll be like, Oh, which Todd played probably the best joke on me ever because it wasn't paying attention to him. So I guess he diamond tied on from Todd, from Finley. And I'm like, can you picture the parents and they're, you know, the breakdown? Okay, so last night I'm watching a movie. I'm doing whatever. I just cleaned the babies and I see Todd since he pictures. He says, he's the mom and dad. I see, you know, look and it's like black and yellow snake. I'm a cool. Thanks, Todd. And he goes, yeah. And then I was like, since I'm a slayer, he goes, you sure the pictures are good? And I'm like, yeah, they're fine. And he goes, you're sure. And I'm like, yeah. So then I start going, I know what's about these pictures. So I pulled them up and I started looking. I'm like, oh, they're in focus. They're ever, these things don't look like diamonds though. That's when he messaged me saying, I can't let you walk away thinking these are diamonds. These are not the parents of your animals. Please don't post these on the internet. I'm like, oh, you can just jungle diamonds. He's like, yeah, I was hoping you're going to freak out. I'm like, well, I wouldn't have if I was paying a kid. Yeah. That's pretty funny. If anything, it was just the diamonds. And you know, then I told them I was going to recycle the joke with you. But you attacked it with more of a, you know, logical standpoint. I think the pictures and said, Todd sent me pictures of my diamond parents. You're like, well, I would talk to Todd because they don't really look like jungle diamonds. But. But if they're doing fail, I mean, they must be legit. I'm like, in your head, you've got to be screaming that you're not right. But now you're like, well, they must be legit. Yeah. I was like, well, it was funny because you sent me the picture and I said, oh shit. Yeah. Yeah. And then I went, oh shit. Oh shit. Oh, God damn it. We're about to have some big trouble. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Todd, for, you know, doing that to work as well. Yeah. I said, I said, well, maybe, maybe you should ask them for picks of the grandparents. You can see like what actually pairing that they came from because I don't know, man. That kind of looks like a jungle diamond to me. Yeah. So I don't think Todd would lie to you. And if it came from Gary, then that's got to be legit. Yeah. I can't even, I'll be legit. I love that you were attempting to make it all legitimate and like, oh no. And I'm like, clearly this is wrong. Why won't you say it's wrong? It was, it was just one of those 20 things. And then I didn't want to go, they didn't want to let it go too far. Same thing with Todd. I eventually just told you. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, you know, I guess I have, I guess my older age, you know, smooths me out a little bit more than you. You would have been like, you know, what the, you've been ripped off. That's why I'm paying attention. I've been paying attention with my toddler. I got on a way better show. The fuck is this? But you know, I didn't. So. That's all cool though. Yeah. Nice job. I did see the pictures of his boas, but I believe he works with the same kind as Matt. Do you remember what the kind Matt has? I keep forgetting. Nope. Again. It's a boat. Clearly we are not Boa people. Thank God. This is not a radio. Yeah. Boa can shoot the radio. Go to the bow over in your show. We would be in trouble. Yeah. Welcome to Moralia Python radio. I know what Moralia Matt has. Speak. Yeah. Speaking of Moralia, I don't know if you caught this on pick of the week today, but did you see? There it goes. Matt's paying attention. South Brazilian. Amarilla. Amarilla. Thank you. It might have been. Again. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I can't. I hope. What's his name? Okay. I'm going to have that message on. Jack. No. Live. No. We have been Brandon Raven for like 20 minutes and he hasn't called. That is true. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody wants to hear us. You know what I mean? I don't even want to hear us. I mean, Jesus. So. So anyway, I don't know if you caught this on pick of the week, but let me get the fellow's name. It was Rise Patterson. Orange Pepper Jack. He's from Australia. That's awesome. But did you see that thing? Yeah. It looked good. Yeah. He's. He was saying that he was going to do a pairing. And he was asking if this pairing was cool. And yeah, there it is right at the top. Recent activity. Holy shit. You know, I wonder if this pepper thing. Is that peppering that we see in the red tigers? You know what I mean? No. I wonder if it's the same thing. My question is, is he's got that orange pepper thing to like eat. You've seen that one caramel jig that I had said was so freaky. It's weird. That one's got the black speckles in random places, right? Yes. So. What does that mean? I mean, because it's like, I mean, I obviously the orange pepper thing looks awesome. But like the speckling happens in certain animals we've seen over here. Like you said, the red tiger. Like I have that one caramel jig. So what are you looking at here? Is it something to bear, I say, pink or wits or something that naturally occurs with the variance of the caramel? Oh, I think, I think in the caramel, you see it because it. I don't know. I've seen it in caramel and it kind of looks like there's another picture there. And yeah. It looks like it has black on it. But when you look at the, when you look at that, that pick where he has it together as the pairing. I don't know. Just like those, that, that peppery look that's. Well, it looks like it follows the saddles. It doesn't look like it's like random, like in a tiger gene where you can have like three or four. Black speckles like right in the middle of their back. It looks like it goes along the pattern. So you don't really see too many black speck that have gone into this guy's back, which is awesome. Right. So. Right. I want to say it's something that can happen. Does it, is it going to make more of an impact on the, on the carnals that this guy produces? Probably. You got to see it in the baby in the offspring. You'll probably see it in a few, in my opinion. I don't think you'll see it in all of them. It's the way it goes. But. Well, I think that's why they called the orange pepper. I don't know if that I'm assuming that that's the hypo. I don't know what part that plays in it. Um, true. It might be, it's not, it might not be common, it might be hypo. Yeah. That's just a bad ass snake though. Man. Yeah, it is. We got something good Lord. Yeah. It was funny. I sent you a picture of a, of a royal python today. And I said, man, this is cool. Look at it. I was like, this is cool. This is cool. Look at it. And you're like grumble grumble grumble grumble grumble. And I was like, come on, man. If this was on a carpet fight, you would grumble grumble. And you're like, if that was on a carpet, you'd take it. I'm like, that's why you got a grumble. So it's like, you know, and it would, it would be, I wouldn't it. I mean, there was a thing you were talking about with Matt earlier about clowns on carpet by Don or something like that, or clown carpet. How you want that or something weird. Um, I would take, what is it? The cinnamon or the super cinnamon ball python. Yeah. Those would be cool. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Matt has a couple of those. Seeing them. They're pretty neat. Um, looks like we have Lon on the line. So we will stop rambling and get him going. Nothing. Nothing. Yeah. Hey, Lon, is that you? Yeah, that's me. How's it going, guys? Pretty good. How are you? All right. Not bad. Not bad. I just, I know you'll worry that I wasn't lying yet. I had to put the monsters to sleep and hide away in the basement. So. Yeah. No worries. No worries. Definitely. So, uh, why don't we just jump right in? Um, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what got you in the reptiles? Personally. Sure. Um, geez. I mean, I don't have that pretty much the same story as most like most guys that lived, uh, you know, more of a suburban setting. I grew up in Brooklyn in a high-rise apartment, so I didn't have the opportunity to go out in my backyard and flip over stumps and collect goddess snakes and frogs and turtles like that. So, you know, like most kids, I was into, uh, into dinosaurs, but I realized that I couldn't, uh, not even Tom Cruxfield to provide a stegosaurus for me at the time. So, I, uh, got the next next thing and I, uh, got my pet store goddess snake and a northern water snake at eight years old. Uh, yeah. And that was the beginning of it. You know, making my weak respect to the pet store to get a dozen goldfish to feed them. And yeah, and ever since then, moved on from there to do the step up to corn snakes and king snakes and probably about 13, 14 years old. I was buying, uh, Burmese pythons and bottle contractors. Jesus. It said you and Eric are on the same page, starting young. Yeah. All right. All right. So what eventually got you to settle on, uh, bloods and short tails? What drew you to them? Um, probably about like in 2007, 2008. So, like I said, for years, I was dealing with mostly, mostly corn, kings and milks. And, uh, when I, uh, moved out of my apartment and finally purchased the home, I realized it has some more space and I have more of them for caging. So. I had gotten rid of those, those berms and the, and the, uh, boughs a long time ago. That was back in the days where everything was in 55 gallon glass aquariums with French trike eating lamps on top. Those were the days. Yeah. You know, screentops, glass aquariums. Um, I was, I was always, uh, drawn to the blinds. I just remember seeing them in the other books and other kids. And it's just always seemed like a perfect, you know, mid-range site python. Like I said, it's a, you got a, uh, you have to big python experience in a small package. That is something that I will completely agree because I only got one and, uh, she keeps me on my toes. Yeah. Um, and, and, and you know what? And she was a pussy cat when she was here. So I don't know what I did. She didn't, she didn't like being amongst all the carpets, I guess. That or she's hungry. Uh, but it, it feels like when you're holding a blood that you're missing half of it. So like you're holding it and you're like, I'm going to let this make crawl through my hand. Oh wait. Where's the rest of you? It's like it ends so abruptly. Yeah. Exactly. You know, for people who are used to holding re-ticks and berms and boas, you hold a blood. All of a sudden it stands too quickly, in my opinion. I don't know where the rest of the way. So, um, yeah. And it was about that time we saw pictures of VPI's ivory blood and actually blew me away. Okay. So that was it. So, uh, how did you get your first one? Oh, my reached out to Keith McPeek. He's a, uh, now he's out of, uh, he got out of blood, but he was a, uh, local guy to me over here in New Jersey. He's pretty much one of the Godfathers of blood and short tail breeding. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and I spotted from there. Cool. Yeah. Very cool. What was, what were your first ones? Were they just normal? Yeah. Yeah. My first ones were normal. And then, uh, I ended up getting a, with the intention of producing my own ivories, I, uh, reached out to trace you over VPI. And I got a pair of matrix. Which is, I mean, that's one that, back when it hurt to actually buy a pair of matrix, you're talking about, uh, four thousand dollars for a pair back then. Mm-hmm. And that was, yeah. [laughter] Yeah. So if you're kind of those, uh, you know, sting now when you see them at two hundred dollars a pair, but. Chees. Yeah. [laughter] So, can you give us a little bit of an overview of your collection as it sits now? You know, what do you got in it and come to highlight? Um, well, I have everything across all three of the, uh, blood and sports, short tail species. I have, uh, the bronze of, I have ivories matrix. I'm working also with the lily line, which is a, uh, line bread, line of red that, uh, VPI developed. And in the brights, I'm working with, work with both the marble and the granite, which are both the, uh, the pepper-sided morphs of the, uh, of the borneos. I have super stripes. Working also with ghost, a lot of ghost stuff that I got from Keith. Um, also the ultra, which is the ultra and ghost, as you guys know, which is pretty much just dealing with the same gene, just two separate stainless lines. Um, and also I got a beautiful ocelot line, uh, super striped from that, which I'm raising up and very eager to breathe. Very cool. Yeah, and of course, with the blacks, I got, uh, the, uh, the jewel of my collection, Jet, my, uh, male Sumatran. He's, uh, pretty much a, uh, a pilotless jet black animal, hence his name. Is that the one at the top of your, uh, Facebook page? No, that's actually magic. That's, that she's had the door and, because right now she has just had a pre-laced head. She was bred back to her dad, Jet. So, um, expecting a. Ooh. I can try to stand still. No, no, no, no, no. That's because, yeah, that is a, that's going to be some, some, apparently. I'd have to say that's one of my most interesting things. Yeah, Eric, Eric might be at your house. So I wouldn't tell him where you live. Okay. You know, that's why you guys know, you guys know, I got the carpet bug. So he'll be something I don't know. We're all good. Yeah. Yeah. We're fine. Cool. Always, always room for more. That's right. Okay. So you have the, I mean, do you work with, you're pretty much got a, uh, what, what size collection are you working with when it comes to short tails and bloods? Um, out right now holding about a 20 adult breeders. Okay. I'm pretty much, you know, dealing with a, with a small room that I'm working with. So I'm constrained on space. Gotcha. Yeah, I don't, I don't hold back a lot of stuff. And I, I tend to, you know, do a, do a caring once. And a lot of times alone to just getting rid of a, getting rid of my adults after a pairing. It's very, very schizophrenic way. It's a run project, but unfortunately that's how I have to run with my concerned space. But, uh, it keeps me on my toes. You know, sometimes I play at risky. I only hold back one animal from a clutch and anticipating and raising that up for a project. And three cool years into the future. We were, we were talking about that a couple of weeks ago on the show about, uh, you know, when do you. Get like, when do you move on an adult like so? If you're, if you, especially if you're dealing with, you know, like, heads or, you know, if you're trying to combine. You know, different morphs or whatnot or, you know, if you're line breeding, you know, like when does the. When do you say, okay, well. Especially with a lot of the, uh, the short tail and blood genetics. It wouldn't be, I mean, it would be a lot different. Let's say if you're dealing with, with all pythons because. You're just dealing, you're just dealing with just the base. A lot of people don't care about the quality of the test. Or, or, you know, the quality of the yellow belly, they just in it for having the yellow belly gene or having a pastel gene. And then if they get the super, they don't need the code on anymore. If you, if you have a really good matrix, that matrix is going to do a lot to you. Not only in just looking to produce the ivory, but just in other combos. So you want to hold on to a good matrix, even though it's a code on and you can get the ivory out of it and you could be holding back. That one matrix is still very available. Yeah, I was going to say because with bloods and I see it, especially in Borneos, it seems that you get such a, such a wide variety of, you know, patterns and colors. Yeah, you got all the variability in the clutch. That's one thing about the Borneos also. Sometimes the most unassuming Borneos will produce some of the most spectacular babies. So it's a lot like carpet fights on where, you know, you do have to pay attention to what you're mixing together in order to get the best results. Absolutely. And that's where Linda is very important. And not only do you want to look at the parents, you want to look at the grandparents. Ah. You want to go as far back as you can go. Okay. You just know what's in there. Right. Yeah, I often talk to Rob Stone and he, he, he is a believer that, that bloods and short tails have more morphs than, or just as many more says you would see them ball pythons, but because, you know, you don't have the same amount of people. You know, working with them and, you know, it's just sort of pushed off his variability that you don't really see people working with, you know, taking your projects. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, if you, if you would actually put some examples aside with some of these different appearances and lock them down in line, you would definitely see that they are morphs of themselves. Wow. Huh. That's crazy. But you know what? It was, I don't know, it's weird, but for me, it's not, I don't know. I mean, some of the stuff that like I've seen in person at Matt's, at Matt's place is like, not even really morphs. Just, I don't know, he was showing me, I guess I'm a fan of like leopard stuff. I don't even, like that spotty, crazy kind of pattern and that's not even really a morph, I guess, I don't know, is it? Right. Well, that's, that's a lot of his awful lot stuff. That's where it got his name from his, uh, borneo, his borneo line that, uh, that he proved out. I mean, that's some amazing stuff. Oh, yeah. No kidding. And then you're, you're into the not so morphe. You're going into the teen egg albinos. That's like, obviously more for me than Jesus. So. Yeah. And like I said, a lot of this stuff is still in his infancy. A lot of stuff hasn't mixed in with the teen eggs yet. And it's only been a couple of, uh, a couple of seasons already that just, you know, most independent breeders, aside from VPI have had produced teen egg albinos, you know, just straight up. Let alone have them mixed in any of the more. They still have no mixed into the little league. They haven't been mixed into the petite. They haven't been mixed into the matrix. Well, I think it's the matrix and that's about it. Just matrix. Yeah. So the potential isn't even reached yet. Oh, absolutely. And then the snake. You and I will both agree on Eric will be the also a teen egg albino that Matt will eventually do. No, he won't. That's a mix. Absolutely. What's wrong with Joe? I don't know. They'll be, they'll be flaming pitch force around until he's figured he's still a carpet python mode. I can't help it. So, uh, all right. So let's talk about that. That's okay. No. No, no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. Which I guess is another reason why lineage is important. More so. I mean, lineage where as far as like having the having animals being suspect of being crosses, I'd say that only really falls in mostly with the, with the born. No stuff because of that face color. As far as the red stuff. If you haven't really read red, chances are it never has any mixed blood in it because you won't be able to hold that, that house standing red color. And with the black, the jet black animal chances all will never have had any other mixed blood in it too. The born is because they do have that tan base color, the tans, the yellows and the browns. The hybrids that have been produced mixing the browns in the bright or the Sumatrons along with any of those two species produce the animal a lot of time that just looks like a muddy Borneo. Right. So that's where people could be a little suspicious. I mean, people have also taken a short cut to try to make albinos in the species where it doesn't exist. I mean, right now, there are two positive albino Borneo, which we've lost. I heard Ben Spiegel has one that was a wild deal collected. But yeah, yeah, that popped up last year. And he has that right now, I don't know the status of it, I haven't heard from it. But, but yeah, I mean, there was several years ago, 18 negative Borneo was found. They died shortly thereafter in captivity, which would have been amazing. And that was a beautiful, that was a yellow and purple snake. Yeah, that would have. I mean, obviously everyone says things are a game changer, but that options, we would have been a game changer. You mentioned that and what the stuff that we have today. Wow. That was awesome. Could you imagine a T negative or T a T negative or even a T positive, like Ocelot or like that. That's legit Borneo. Or like, I think of the, what do you call it, the, the marble. Oh, wow. That would be wild. Yeah. So let's talk about keeping in your approach to how you keep these guys. And I guess we'll start with one of the things that I often get from, from the listeners is that they think they're cool snakes and cool looking, but there's a lot of misconceptions out there about, you know, about them. Maybe, you know, you have to keep them wet, all that kind of crazy stuff. So tell us some of the misconceptions about keeping, keeping these guys. Yeah. One of the biggest misconceptions is that the high humidity that can have to be swampy. And I think that that's pretty much a quick ticket to a respiratory infection and keeping them in a shield tub with dripping sides. Yeah, I feel the most important thing that you need with them, I mean, they could obviously stand the high humidity and they do come from places high humidity, but you need to have ventilation along with that high humidity. Without that proper ventilation and good after all, that's where you're going to learn the problem. Okay. So you're going to deal with some, especially if you're going to deal with some cool attempts at them, because they can withstand cool attempts. They like cool a little bit more cool attempts than, than most other what you consider tropical pythons for my bloods and ambient temps at 79 80 degrees. Okay. So you don't keep like a hotspot for the metal. No, only my actions are in a vision, the action rack with just the, with the heat table on it, but the heat table is set to 82. So that sometimes they're starting to even pick on. Okay. I know that's, that's similar to what VPI does, right? Yes, yeah, they have like an airplane angle where they just essentially eat it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, I heard it's a, it's a, it's a magical wonderland of wasn't sure if the pythons from. I can only imagine. With lots of surprises in the face. So, okay. So you're saying ventilation is, is important with these guys. So what do you use it for caging? Maybe, what are you using for adults and what are you using for hatchlings and. Hatchlings are in the vision, hashling tubs. Then it's just incremental housing after that. Once they out grow that at about six of the months, they'll go into 15 core tubs, 15 core tubs, the 32 core tubs. And then they go up into the ARS racks, which are my three, three foot by two foots. There's like six square feet of a footprint on those. Okay. And that's, that's good. Yet all, all, all, all tubs are racks, in my words. I feel personally that that's, that's the only way to go. How so? Why so? Um, just, just the ease of cleaning. Okay. They, they, they tend to, I feel that they tend to be more secure in tubs. They tend to be more secure in those few pythons that do better in, in tubs, most like ball pythons do. But it's security and they're going to know underneath. I give them my only substrate. I use a craft paper and they're spending their time under the craft paper anyway. So if I kept them in caging, the most people I know that do keep them in caging and spending their time underneath, underneath the paper in a hide. And just the ease of cleaning. I mean, I mean, guys have a couple of big, big gloves and short tails yourself now. When you guys let loose of liquid waste, that's like a, oh, it's a gallon of, of sedged liquid. And I just couldn't back and clean that out of a, out of a four by two front opening cage. And you probably have a roll of paper towels just to stop that up. So I like to make up, just put them over the, put them over the utility sink and hose them out. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So, you know, the, the nice thing about blood short tails, they don't go to the bathroom too often. But when they do, it's like a will to be spoken to your tub. I think I sent a picture of the tub the first time, the one I got from you on when let loose. I sent it to Matt and Eric and I said, I think I'm right while I've broken my strap. It's impressive. Yeah, I can't just look at this. Yeah, it's the five different geology, because I've seen some of their, some of their album. There's actually thicker around than they are. So I guess it, I guess it expands. Wow. That's kind of nuts. And another big misconception about blood short tails is that they're aggressive. I could tell you right now with every one of my adults, you could reach in and handle them with no problem. So without even getting tagged. And I do attribute that one to temperature. A lot of people keep the blood in short tails too hot. A hot orange tail is an angry blood for short tail. Okay. You know, I noticed that if they kept at high temperatures, it will be very agitated and be very defensive. And also keeping them in tubs. Just the act of opening the tub draws them out of that corporate state that they might be in. Uh huh. So it makes them aware. I've noticed, you know, going to all the friends collections and seeing the bloods that are kept in front open cages. They're just flying the glass open. You might not be drawing them out of that state that they're in. And then the first thing that they know is that you're in front of them and they're giving you a jab. Right. So let me ask you this. What about, how about handling? Because I guess most people that listen to the show are used to something like, you know, a carpet python or a chondro, which is a thin bodied long, you know, how do you suggest? I mean, for an adult, definitely two hand support and reach reaching from your better up reaching down on them. And keeping the face away from you. Because you could probably, you could probably solicit a defensive strike from even the famous blood python if you want. If you just went face to face with it. It's not like most pythons, they're very space savvy. Like if you get anybody who works with like mac lots or you can guys have scrubs and stuff like that. You don't want to go face to face with it. For some reason, they just know that to face. They can walk into your eyes. They know they were just fired. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And yeah, there's nothing else. You can't be hesitant. You just got to reach in and scoop them up. And they're not like a not like a carpet or or even like a warm up. They're not going to crawl back and they're not going to knock the head back to try to bite you. They're just like, I want them in front of the defensive room. So if you hold even if you do have an aggressive one, if you're holding it away from you, it's not going to come back around at you. Right. Okay. So, what is, what would you consider too hot for? I mean, you were saying about how I'll keep it too hot. Where would it be too hot? I would say ambient, anything over 83, 84, and ambient is definitely a hot spot. You know, hotter than 88. Especially when you can give them a cooler end down around 80. I'm not saying that you can't, you know, keeping, I mean, I keep that at ambient percent. What's works for me. But if you're going to keep them in, in, in case, if you do want to give them a hot spot, as long as you can give them that cool end, even underneath 80. You could either safely do the hot spot in the 80s. No problem. And you don't, you don't need to go out of that. Right. I think that's probably similar to what most keepers, at least as far as Maralia goes. I think that maybe a couple of years ago, everybody has moved towards lower, lower temperatures. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's been, yeah, it's been a general shift. And I guess I've seen in health culture, but it's like I said, I mean, I remember, you know, keeping animals back in the day when everybody thinks, you know, oh, they're tropical. Oh, they're tropical animals. They need to be hot. And you would have those red, French white, like, on top of your screen tops. And the hot spot probably was 120 degrees under there. And they would just sit underneath there and bake. And pretty much. You wonder how, how people had success with them. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It does show their resiliency, but. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm really worried. We weren't having a lot of success breeding them. But more people than alive. Yeah. You had a nice pile of snake jerky. Yeah. Yeah. Do you find that, I mean, because you're on the East Coast. So in the winter time, you do anything to offset the dry heat. Do these guys, you know, have any issues as far as shedding and stuff where you'd have to spray them or. I would just buy it. I mean, a couple of days before I see the other shed, I'll dump the water bowl, I'll soak their paper. But I'm looking up in the basement. So it holds the humidity pretty well, but I also do run a five gallon whole room in the fire in there. Extra set. Okay. Okay. Okay. The benefits for everything else in my room, I need to keep a multi species in the room. So. I don't want to do it. Right. But some of the other stuff, which I am keeping out, keeping topics in the same room, I have more. There are an answer easy and stuff like that. Okay. What about feeding? What's your approach with feeding these guys? Um, hatchlings, I'll start off on, on hopper mice. And eventually work their way up while they're still in the, uh, in the hatchling cubs. They'll get up to the point where once they hit about small rats, then they'll be moved out. But I saw everything walked with, with my, just out of convenience from me, I don't, I don't breathe my own rodents. So it's, it's advantageous to me to, uh, just economical to buy, you know, frozen blood. And just dealing with, with hoppers, you know, some of them like to start on live. It might be the first two or three seasons. They want to see live. But most of them switch over to focus on the problem. If I did breathe and I did have my own rat breeding facility, I probably would start them on rats. But there's usually no problem with the transitionals. I mean, once, once they're on adult life, they're ready. They're already very aggressive here. So switching them over from that point into the, into small ratches and a problem. And then that's usually hatchlings of feed usually every 10 to 12 days. Usually hatchlings, I want to see if they're first couple of feedings. I want them to completely pass them. You know, before I feed them again, just to make sure everything is running smoothly. And, uh, moving up to about yearlings, yearlings, they're going to get fed, changing about every, every 10 days. And then once they're adults, males every three weeks. And females, depending on how you're cycling them for the season, they can get every, uh, two weeks. Every week, depending on the size of the meal and time of the year. Okay. So you do, uh, cycle feeding going into breeding? Yeah. The, uh, the, uh, the, the females all start feeding up, feeding every day. If they've laid for the season, I'll give them a couple of heavy seedings after they laid. Or if not, they'll all get, they'll all get, uh, heavier through the summer. They'll get larger meals, about every two weeks, up until September. And then that's sometimes where I start pairing depending on the weather. And usually food, no, no bigger than a large rat. But most of my stuff is even adults, they're just adults. And 15, 20 pounds is a getting needle in rats. One thing with blood, you don't want to see them usually anything bigger than their girl. Because they don't need it. They're very, they're slow, slow metabolism, sedentary animals. They don't need anything, anything bigger, you know, the girl. And especially, you know, a lot of the same day, of course, they will. People do feed them rabbits, especially if the females lay. Sometimes I'll give them an extra large getting thing. Just for only that one feeding lay after they lay. But then everything after that mostly needs them for a larger asset class. Okay. Yeah, I would think that most people would probably think to feed those guys, you know, some of the gurs on them things. I mean, you're looking at, you know, Bernie's Python's girth without the length. And you would think that they're going to eat a meal. But, you know, a piglet or something like that, you know. Yeah. And, you know, it'll work against them. And it'll be especially obesity. They're very obese grown because they're going to max out at about five to six feet. So from there, they're just going to get sad. Or it's not like a berm or a retick. We're just going to keep putting it blank on them. Right. If you have any intentions on breeding them, a fat male is a swaddish male and probably will work here. A fat female is just going to have problems with selective development. Right. Yeah. They're the best kept leaning. I mean, all these animals that you see come out in the wild are they're leaning mean. And they'll probably best face an area. You know, they're reading only once a month and they're getting a lean meal. And they're moving around. And I've never seen another fat blood or short tail come out in a while. Right. Yeah. I think that's probably another shift in herpeticulture is the fact of keeping everything, you know. These makes are good snakes. Yeah. We've been killing them with kindness. You know, keeping them too warm and feeding them too much. We've been like overbearing grandparents. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess my last question that I'm going to have before Owen kicks in is, um, do you find that there, do you find that there's any differences between keeping the three species? There's certain requirements for one that may not be for the other. I have to say of all three, the most, one that is the most prone to husbandry area. I have to say, the other blouse, other red ludge. I've always said that they're one bad husbandry day away from getting sick. Yeah. And you see, it just seems that the blacks are, are solid, tough snakes, the borneos as well. I feel sometimes, I spoke with other people and maybe it's just the misconception I have. I feel like the borneos can go drier than the other you. You could almost keep them, you know, more like a word. They probably could go maybe a little bit warmer, just six. It's just something I've noticed. I've never, never had any problems with, with our eyes with, with the blacks or the borneos. The red is very, very rarely and it's just, it's, it's usually corrected, like, strictly a husbandry, but they just need to be a little bit more of a, more of a sense here than in that area. So if, let me ask you this question. If somebody was coming down with an ri, if they noticed it and caught it at the beginning, what would be the thing that you would tell them to look at? I mean, would definitely be the ventilation. Okay. You have to find that, that, that balance between humidity and ventilation. Okay. That's, I mean, cold weather isn't going to be giving me our eyes. And Tom Crutchfield is, is breathing his red blood pythons outdoors and chicken-like cages in South Florida. Yeah. Right. Same as he does with his diamonds. You know, nighttime, they're going down to the 50s, no problem. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's not the cold weather. It's, it's cooling them down without the proper ventilation. I have fans, you know, all four corners of, of my snake, you know, my, it's good. Good airflow. So it's, you know, keeping them in clubs also with the, with the open tops, like in the, in the vision and the ARS cajun. There's a lot of positive air flow in there. They, they need to keep them in, in, in some of these front opening cages, like, like the animal plastic cajun stuff like that. If you don't have enough ventilation, you know, that's where you're going to run into problems because it just gets stagnant in there. And once that sets in, it's correct with that. Yeah. That's it. It's, you know, to be a over dealer. Right. Hmm. Interesting. Very. It's almost like the same requirements we kind of have with the different wireless species. It's like, they're the same, but a little different. So, so, Lon, how is your, how's your season going so far this year? So far so good. I had a, just three pairings plans. We just say, I set my goals every season for three of the pairings. That's pretty much about as, about as many, uh, actions like an handle here. Yeah. Of all three, uh, looks like all three are going to go. I have edges on the ground too. And, uh, magic that was bred back to a dad jet. She just had her. Or a pretty late shed. So she's about two weeks away from the land. So it looks like we're going to be three to three on collections. You're not going to knock on wood. Everything's good with her. It's good. I have, uh, I didn't do any bronze this year. I did two other pairs of our Borneos, one is a, a granite pairing. It's a granite, uh, offspring bred back that I produced in 2012. A male bred back to her. A brand of mother. So I'm hoping for even more extreme granite out of that pairing. So I'm hoping for the goal of operating with just a, an animal with completely, fully, fully speckled side walls on. And hopefully see if you can get any of that speckling to creep up onto the door. Which is obviously, you know, a nice, a nice sink to see. And, uh, speck comparing is a, uh, super straight. Had ultra bright. Absolutely a model had ultra. So it should be a lot of a lot of diversity in that clutch. Hoping for some, uh, fitting to hope and hit the triple there, which would be the super straight model. That's cool. Yeah, which would do this. I actually, uh, this, the fire to that pairing, uh, Eric, the, uh, is also the, uh, fire to Halloween. So he's, uh, he's been known to produce some nice stuff. Oh, that's gotta be, it's gotta be the coolest snake ever. He loved that show. He, he would not shut up about it the entire way back from likely. Like, like Matt, Matt's driving. He's like, look at the snake. I'm like, Matt, don't look at the snake. Keep driving. So it's like, you know, that was the, it was awesome. So I, I, I kind of almost stole it from him. So, and that says a lot of several snakes. I've almost still stolen from Eric. So that's cool. Would, would that be your most anticipated pairing or do you got another one? No, it would have to be, uh, my Sumatran jet. Definitely. Just to see, uh, I mean, this, this was his finest coal back door. Bred back to him and she's, she's a, a nearly patentless black animal. And she's, uh, he's his, she's this bidding energy. She, and he's a, a black panelist animal almost. And he, he iridesces like a ball and he's a, he's a magnificent animal. So I, I can't see anything short of all 100% of the clutch just being, being stellar. I've bred him. I am. Good? Good. No. I've, in, in the past, I've bred him to three separate females. I've bred him to a, a, a chrome head. Sumatran and Neil's to say all of his baby. I mean, his, his aesthetics just, just washes out everything. He's a, he's the man. I mean, even bred to the chrome head. All the babies came out 100% jet black. When you say, uh, when you say chrome head, what, what are you, what are you talking about? I mean, but, um, within the, uh, within the Sumatans, it's called the, I think it's called the blackboard pythons. There's just two phases of the, of the Sumatran, which are these are the southern Sumatans. You have the northern ones, which are the, the teach heads, which is a separate distinct design, which probably deserve its own, its own subspecies. That's the one where you find the, uh, the caramel albino is found within the teach heads. Right. And, uh, the southern form, which are the, the black Sumatans, they'll have a, a phase within it, which could, which could just pop up, you know, in, in scrimmally and then you collect just, where they'll, their heads will be chrome. They'll chrome out. It could even, you could have some jet black animals that just depending on mood or time of day, your heads will chrome out. You could look at the tank and you could open up your top at night and the animal have a, a bright shoulder head. They'll, they'll start with something else, knock into your tub. Some of them will hold the chrome all the time and some of them will, will just chrome in and out. Depending on that timing. Yeah. What, uh, sorry, on, I'm going to jump in here. I'm curious with the, uh, with the, with the blacks. When they're hatched out, are they all, can you tell which ones are going to be that solid black, um, or do they slowly develop that over time? You can usually tell right out of the eggs, which, which ones have it. Some of them will, they'll come out. They'll be a little bit on the, on the, uh, thought more contrast. But, but don't get off my contrast, as long as that contrast is black, gray, silver, and white, you're going to be good. As long as you'll see any brown, I mean, some animals would brown in it. You'll probably hold on to their brown and they won't be the blackest of animals. I've seen some animals that did start out brown that after their first year, even their second year are just black animals. But if you have an animal that spots out with low brown and the base colors that you're dealing with in the contrast are just black, silver, gray, and white, then you're good. But after a while, they will lose the white and they will lose the, will lose the gray themselves. Wow. Yeah. And do they keep the orange eyes? Is that something that develops as they age or? It'll be more intense than the hat shows. And it'll get healthy as they get older. But it's definitely a lot more striking than the hat shows. Gotcha. So I'm surprised that they're not more popular. I mean, I really like the look of the black ones. And is it difficult to pick your old backs? I mean, I know with us, it takes us about a year to realize what the hell we're looking at when the hatch is a kind of difficult to figure out what's going on with you. Um, it is because I've had animals that, you know, you do get cellless remorse. But I mean, I don't mind. All my stuff mostly has gone to, you know, close friends and stuff like that. So I enjoy seeing them progress. But then I said, like, like magic, the girl, I held back. I knew she still, she had no choice but to turn any other color. She came up black and she was unstable. So that's cool. Like I said, you can usually tell when they have it. I mean, other stuff is a gamble at about six months. You can stop getting an inkling if they're not losing. You know, and if they stop having like, you know, any yellows in it, usually that's an undesirable trait. If you're lying breeding for an all-black animal, you can brown the yellows. But, like I said, I've seen animals that started out muddy brown animals and they've happened. Yeah, for an all-black. Mm-hmm. That's, that's awesome. And just, just a second interesting story about, about Jeff. Jeff is actually a Craigslist pickup that I had. Oh, my God. I know they, they, those stories never end well. But, uh, I was, uh, every now and then I like to troll Craigslist just to, just to amuse myself, just to see the, the hedge spider bald pythons, you know, much like a... [laughter] That spider, nice. Yeah. Just, just to amuse myself, you know, so I usually put things into the search terms. I'll put in Python, I'll put in power, and I put in skink. But, uh, you haven't, uh, found, uh, five years ago. I put, sure enough, I put Python in there and came up, you know, blood Python to sell, email for pics, and then I only, I mean, became myself. Emailed a guy for pics. He sent me back some crappy pics. It was just a very dark animal. It could have been the quality of the picture. It was lighting. He was asking a hundred bucks for it. There was already, uh, a full-sized animal. He said it was a male. And it wasn't too far from where I work. The city says, "Yeah, you know what? Let me go check him out." And he was myself. I, I didn't have any of his high hopes. Drove up there, the guy comes out and is building for me. Rubbermaid tub. He walks a little bit to my car, opens it up and he says, "Yeah, you know." He says, "I wanted to get in top of one of Python's a couple of years ago, but now it's starting to realize the best ones are red." You know, so if you really want to, you know, breed blood Python, you really should be looking to get the reddest animals. If you get some look in the shell, this guy is probably just kept quality. Oh God. It's not an only city. I mean, if anything, I was expecting a tub full of mites. He opens up the tub and I'm, I'm now, I'm really asking a hundred dollars this day. Oh, he's a pretty good to be true. Opens up the stuff and I write the thing. It's like, it's a whole of my best poker face. Scaring down at this jet black, tadile, adult, immatriate. I took a deep breath and I looked at him. I got a hundred bucks. It was like, "Yeah, I'm pretty firm on that." I was like, "Oh, okay." [Laughter] All right. Don't put on that. You know, I used to look at this thing in corn for 30 years. I moved my house down to a ventilator. I was covering it anywhere near it. [inaudible] Uh-oh. I think we lost some shit. Yeah. He's only just dropping out there for a minute. Right in the middle of a story. Damn it. [Laughter] I'll just let him know. But man, but Craigslist purchases, you know, it was a point where all of my cages were off a Craigslist. So, you know, don't, don't outrule it. Just know what you're getting yourself into it. Have a quarantine room. Right. Yeah. There he is. You know, I don't know. I like, I like the black. There he is. Look cool. [inaudible] Yeah, there you go. You did. You dropped off. It happened. So, we heard that you didn't want mites. You were worried about that. And then I think you kind of dropped off. Yeah. Pretty much I was expecting, you know, for a hundred dollar Craigslist score. So, yeah, not the best part of that. Definitely the best case scenario I was going to deal with. At least mites and probably some other, some other funky disease. But now, like I said, there's a well taken care of animal. And the only problem was the guy who owns them was, wasn't very well educated on the existence of Sumachian short wealth iPhones. And a damn good one at that. But he's, he's probably up there with what I mean. From what I've seen from one of the top. The top of Sumachian out there. I mean, obviously if you're breathing for a breach there, then your goal is an all black panelist animal. And you just see it as close as you're going to get to that. So, I mean, Ron, every once in a while, do you look at him and just go not bad for a hundred dollar Craigslist animal? Absolutely. Yeah. He'd be my favorite on so many levels. Traditional. Yeah. And I normally don't name my animals. He was the first snake that I named. He's a beast. He holds a special place in the collection. He'll, even when the day comes when I'm no longer breathing short tails, he bludged. So be here to pack for that. I'm going to get the most out of my 100 bucks on him. [laughter] I kind of think you already have. I mean, but yeah. Still amazing. Nice. Yeah. That is very cool. So, when it comes to breathing these guys, what's your approach that has kind of given you or that has allowed you to be successful with breathing these guys? Just the most important thing is what the weather do you guide and listen to your animals? I mean, you read a lot of other care sheets, another breed of them, and obviously a lot of things work for different people. But I noticed around here, especially here in the northeast, once we stock it in those first storms, usually end of August, beginning September. My family has a female that turned on, and you'd be putting yourself at a disadvantage just if you've denied them that opportunity, because that's when they're ready to go. They're feeling that big, but I'm going to drop. And that's when they want to go. And even still, with those early breedings, they have amazing sperm qualities anyway. And you're still, from those early breeding, you're going to get a population anyway come January, February. So. Jeez. Right. Right. And I'll put them together. I'll put them together. I mean, if we don't have those storms, I'll probably start in October is when I also have my parents. Like the last couple of years, we've had their hurricanes hit around here and beginning September. And they have turned on. So they're going together. And usually, those nights where we'll have that bad weather with the big grommet drops, everybody will walk up. Huh. So do you find that it's more, like that plays a bigger role than, say, a temperature drop? Absolutely. Yeah. Temperature drop is just another one in the queue that you could use. Right. You can't deny the browner. That's the one thing you can't control. Right. So it's working to your advantage. Use it. But I'll also, throughout the year, I mean, I'll keep them in anyway. I mean, I want to see at least two solid locks out of them and you know you're good. Right. But I'll keep them together throughout New Year's anyway. Just on and off, I'll keep a mail in for a week at a time. Mm-hmm. It'll be a solid lock. And I'll pull them out. I'll give him a small meal. I'll give the female a small meal. And then I'll put them back together. And if you have three or four locks, you're golden. If you don't get eggs out of that, then they're the problem somewhere. You've done something wrong, yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, I'll also, I'll use, I mean, to go along with my ambient temps in my room and being, it is a Northeast basement. I mean, I'm still trying to fight the temps anyway. So it will drop down and I'll let it drop down sometime in the 90s at a low 70s. And that's for everything else in the room. I mean, I've got four pythons, more men, spada, pythons, shaboos, everything. All my men are just doing that room. There's nothing these animals can't take. No matter where in the world they're from, they're going down to the 70s at night anyway. Right. The desert's going up to 40 degrees at night. So it's a long, long time ago. I was going back up during the day to get to their, to get to their optimum temperature. It's not a problem. But I'll even, every now and then with you, I mean, I've, I've surprised people with pictures I post on the Facebook, kept gunning my animals with the room, you know, being 52 degrees. I'll throw up in my cell door sometimes and just let them, you know, I say, like I call and I say, I let them feel the weather. You know, I'll give them a chill for about an hour or two hours while I clean their room. It helps, you know, clear up stagnant, stagnant air while I'm cleaning anyway. It helps anybody and say anything, it turns them on. I'll notice that night that if I put this the other right after a, right after a cool battle like that, y'all will go. I wouldn't suggest keeping them. It comes like that. I would never do that. But just let the room feel the weather. I do it all the time. No problem. Yeah. I think over this past winter, there was a picture of you on Facebook with a temp gun and you had like, I think it was some, maybe, I don't know, 50 or 60 degrees or something and. Yeah. It was like 53 degrees. Yeah. I think the caption I wrote is the Lady of Petco says I'm a rebel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Oh. Good. Yeah. I mean, it's all part of the small shoes that you could do. You could be spraying. You could spray with cold water. I sometimes like dump the water bowl of them. These are all the shoes that they're going to feel in nature. They're instinctual animals. They're reptiles. They're not smart. They're just, they're built. They're built for instinct. And, you know, what they're feeling in the barometer drops is signified to them. That is reading season. That the rains are coming wherever they're from. And it just lets them know that that's time to go. So it's a big honor feeling. Why are you here in the northeast? You know, like I said, you'd be at a disadvantage. If you didn't utilize that time. There's no such thing as letting them go early. It says, "Oh, if you breed them, believe that you've got to talk to an ovulation." That's your number. I mean, if there's as long as you support your females, if you're breeding them that early, as long as you maintain them at a good weight, they've got to ovulate to you. And you could see these animals to an ovulation. I had a last year. I had my early female. Didn't see a male for almost two years. So she retained school for almost two years. Wow. I looked at her, and I could tell the way she was laying. You know, that she's a master. I was looking at her and I was like, "Wow, she looks like she's, you know, she's even building, or she's coming up to an ovulation." So I started putting a little couple extra meals to her. Just so they know that, you know, like I said, they're built on instant survives. Yes, they have a couple extra meals in them. Something in their head is covering them all right. Times are good. I could bring some babies into the swirl. The foods are plenty. You know, that's what my body do. What my body do is what it can do, and give them the, uh, given the foundation they need to, uh, to produce that. That's sure enough. You should wait and help you question it. That's the key. That's where it's done even longer. I swear by that with my carpets. I swear by that. It's so cool to hear that that works. It's kind of my mindset. And, uh, the first couple of years that I bred carpets, I didn't have luck. And I said, "You know what? Let me just try this." I don't even know where I heard it. And I did that. And ever since then, that's what I've done. What a huge difference. Like you immediately see the females turn on. It's like, "Whoa!" You know? That's it. I'm a firm believer that you can feed them towards ovulation. As long as they have that viable strum, you know, they're retaining it anyway. That's what their body's waiting for. I mean, that's best their whole wife's purpose. Two things. Uh-huh. Eat and to make more baby snakes. Right. And they're gone as long as long as their environment's good. They're gone to make those baby snakes. Yeah. Yeah, that is the objective. Yeah. I mean, when you break it down to a space, it really is an rocket science. They don't ask for much. They don't ask for much, and they don't do much. And if you just provide them with a handful of simple things, they'll do what you want them to do. You're golden. So, how long do you do the temperature drops? You're cooling. Like I said, my room is going to feel it anyway. Right now, I just pepped on my room before, and most of the stuff right now is I tried to keep it up around 80, but some of the lower cubs are down about 77, 78 degrees. Okay. I guess I'll hope I'll, like I said, do my room to freeze out. I'll do that for about an hour, two hours, like the room getting to the 50s. I close up the doors, and by the time it warms back up again, it's just an oil flow radiator heating in a small room, about a 200 square foot room. I mean, it'll take a couple hours for it to get back up there. The only I'll probably do that about once a week during the breeding season, through September through new years. Once new years comes, I know everybody usually said, "I'm not happy to breed you anymore." Females aren't being fed anymore. I'll stop feeding females, but I noticed that they're coming up to a valuation if I can eyeball it, but definitely stop once they argue it. So, the ovulation, I guess, the pool other might mess them up, or do you think they'll be okay with that one, too? No, they'll be fine with that. That's where I'm stopping. All my breeding usually stops, and I'll pull the males out. If nothing is accomplished by new years, nothing is going to get done. And then I'm just working towards getting the females to hobby. Usually my females will ovulate shortly thereafter, usually around a week in January. Okay. So, now, what advice can you have, if any, about giving a cool down without getting our eyes? Like I said before, ventilation. Ventilation is the key. I mean, if you're going to have that high humidity, and you're not going to have good ventilation, then you're going to throw in cold temperatures to match. Then you've just got to run the problems. Right. Okay. And how can you know it? I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I mean, I wouldn't prolong pool temperature. I would never advocate keeping me down. I'm not going to know diamond pythons, and then I'm, you know, I'm brittle. I wouldn't keep them at 50s and 60s for a prolonged amount of time. And then not back on hand more where they're going to bask and try to get up to their core temperatures during the day, and I wouldn't let them get back all the night. But that's just one of the, one of the two cues I'll just do, just to, just to cycle them. If I need it, or even if I don't need it, like I said, I'd just like to clear up the room, get some fresh air in it. Everybody, everybody seems to respond well to it. Across the board with everything. It's a multi-species I'm dealing with. Cool. So, if you do encounter a respiratory infection, what would you do to kind of either fight it or mix it from them? Or get them better? You want to keep them on a, you look like a no substrate. Keep them on a thin film of water. And if you, if you can provide some supplemental heat, you might want to give it to them. If I have one, I'll usually put a, put a heat pad underneath one of the tubs and give them a little bit of a hot spot. Okay. And just keep them on like a very thin film of water. And, and you have to be, you have to be very, very stringent about, about the sanitation with the tub then. Because it'll just turn, they'll turn to a set of skills. You definitely want a clean tub once or twice a day while you keep it in like that. Okay. Medication. Is there something you can ask your vet for that you think would help? No, I, no, I wouldn't, I, I firmly believe that, which I mean another some good exotic vet stuff there for the most part. I feel that, that, that's kill snakes. And if they know about snakes, they don't know about blood pythons. I've heard horror stories of people going to get with their blood python. And they'll say, you have blood python that is impacted and blood python. Because they'll feel your age in all of my, any one of my, of my adult blood pythons, you could feel golf size, your age. Just sitting at the vet waiting to come out. And they'll come out already and it's not a blockage. But every person that's ever taken their blood pythons was that, that's as obvious. Yeah, their blood pythons impacted, it has to be passed. I've had people told that they're, oh, those, those are, those, those are uric acid stones. That's a sign of gout, you know, treating animals or gout. Oh. Yeah. That's not, that's not good. Okay. Not good. I've, I've never had the need to, to go to any antibiotics. I've, I've always heard horror stories about, well, treating for gout when there is no gout. Counts is our story in my opinion. Yeah. All right. Yeah. I'll take that one. That works for me. Um, now what you said that you put the boys in with the girls for, what do you say about a week? Then you say go them out. I want to go and try to see a solid lock and then I'll pull them out and then I'll give them, they'll, a small feeling. You don't want to give them a large feed because you want to, you want to keep them with their eyes on the prize. You don't want them bogged down in the direction. Right. Right. Do you want to be like, you know, after Thanksgiving meals, kind of deal? Yeah. Exactly. You cycle through with multiple females? I don't. I do. I don't want to warn you. I mean, I have people who have had success with two. I wouldn't do more than two. My favorite breed was a, there was a Tracy Barker says, I'd rather breed one female than not breed breed. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Which is, I usually have my, my pairings are usually always planned in advance. And I, yet, haven't had a reason to put a male for multiple females. Okay. Well, but it can, and people do it, I just, I haven't had the need to do it. But I'm sure they would do some attention. You could do early in the season. You can get two solid locks in on the female from your male. Rest them a little bit. And then a couple of weeks later, put them another female. I'm sure you were in a job at all. And people do do it. But I haven't had the need to. Like I said, I only shoot for like three or four clutches at best out of my blood on your tail because that's what I could deal with here. So that's, I haven't had to do that yet. I want to do that. It's good to have variety with your pairs as opposed to, you know, three clutches all tired by the same guy would kind of be like. It's not that I couldn't wait. Yeah, it's not that I couldn't wait the next year. You could do this at male anyway. So, right. Okay. Is there any. Go ahead. I was going to say with the sperm retention, is there any issues with. Like, you know, you're saying up to two years. Is there any issues when it comes to, you know, doing a pairing that. The paternity of the offspring. Oh, yeah. It's an absolute concern. Sure. And if you don't, if you don't continue to breathe a female every year. Yeah, it's exactly a possibility that you breathe a one year to one male in the next year. Absolutely. Well, that's annoying. I guess with morphs, I mean, you're pretty much at either his or it isn't, you know, but. Hmm. That's interesting. That would, that would really be annoying if I'm trying to breed my female. Just got to do this one male. She looks gravid. She pops that eggs. I get all excited because of this is the pairing and then the excitement from the guy from last year. I'd be kind of pissed off. So, you know, I think it would be cool. I would be fascinated. What if you're waiting for that pairing and then she drops eggs from the guy from last year? You know, has there ever been like a dual paternity clutch? Has that been, I guess? Not that I know of. No. Okay. Not now. Oh, hello. I know. All Python guys do that. Who's your daddy clutches? Male after male. We're running a train on these poor girls at a 200 frames in three months old. But anybody has done that with what? No, good. So, what size clutch are we looking at here for these, for the girls? It was an average clutch size. My average female is usually about 12 to 16 pounds and you get an average clutch of about 18 to 22 out of them. I know guys that breathe in, you know, bigger. Like, to me, these infamous raising his girls up to 30 pounds and he'll get clutches up to 40 eggs. 40 heavy. Wow. 40 eggs. And I've no comment I've done better with the Sumatra clutch, I think they have a couple of years ago, they had 53 eggs out of Sumatra, which has to be erect. I've known, of course, all three species that's gotten that many eggs out of the Curtis complex. Wow. So, a lot of eggs for not a lot of snake. Exactly. I think I've seen numbers like that in my carbon pythons, but they've got another like three feet on the blood. So, yeah, the, the marble head ultra borneo this year, she was, she was at best 10 pounds and they got 18 eggs out of her and you're looking at eggs that are, you know, that are sort of size of small potatoes. So, you know, it was about a couple of body weight with eggs after she's late. Yeah. Do they do the females recover quickly after egg laying or is it kind of like you got to, you got to kind of take care of them for a little bit. Do they look like? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some of them look pretty rough. Yeah. It's like a deflated in the tube. Mm hmm. Especially. Especially when we deal with smaller ones. We deal with an animal around 10 to 12 pounds. They look pretty rough. Some of my biggest females, like, you know, some of the 20 pounders, when they let you won't even notice that they lean eggs. They're fine. Yeah. Geez. So, um, like, set up, um, what do you do for the ache? Do you maternally need to be with these guys? No, I haven't. And that's one of my biggest regrets, but I, you know, I've got to see them where, where I feel comfortable leaving the eggs in with them because I've never really seen. I mean, you really don't get like those tight beehives like you guys might get with the Morelia or some of the other pythons. It's usually a loose scattering and, you know, you'll have your, your kickouts. And a lot of times, I mean, I have all success with my kickouts. It's just, they're very sloppy with laying eggs. I call them spray and pray. No, they're a little bit. Yeah. Look at the plum metal. They'll, they'll lift you together. A lot of them are in the tearing and a nice pile. They'll just adhere flat. A little bit of tub and. So, yeah. So I, uh, I artificially incubate. I would, I would like one of these days and that, that would be my goal. People have done it, which is success. But I'm waiting for that one day when I do see a nice female on a nice tight beehive. I just think that they have their body shape that they're so short and sad. I don't think they have their body shape is maybe it's just in captivity. It's just, it's not conducive. So it's, uh, some maternal anything to get that nice tight wrap on them. Even, even as, as lean as we see them, they're not as lean as they are in the wild. And then, they're not there. They're still here to get the job. But I think once I do see them, when I open up the tub and I do see a nice height, thanks tight beehive for what I want. I think that's the money I need my female. Cool. So, how do you set up the eggs and you get better? I, uh, I still go old school. You know, you can wait for Mickey lights for water. I tried the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, suspended method. The egg crate method a couple of years ago, didn't like it. Didn't like it at all. I know some varying, some, some people use a pressing field and zero ventilation, their egg casings and stuff like that. I, I set them up in deep vermiculite, halfway buried. I usually separate the eggs, if I can. I come up all nice, lined up nice and neat numbered and halfway buried in the, uh, in the vamiculite. It's, uh, two ventilation holes on each side that I'll tape up for the first three weeks. And then after like three weeks, I'll remove the, uh, tape off of those ventilation holes just to get them. I think, but it's the first part of, of incubation. I think hydration is important. And then after that, once the egg starts developing and it starts, ventilation becomes more important and they're not going to dry out as much at that point. I'm starting anyway. It's not like a month and a half. They're going to start their national gimpling anyway. And once you get them to that point, they go. So yeah, 88, 89 degrees. Okay. Yeah. Normal Python temps. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Standard Python. I mean, looking at about 60 to 63 days. I don't cut my egg until I see the first step. And, uh, they could go lower. I may actually ignore somebody that incubated that blue pen. They did the old collubed method and they just put their, uh, put their egg tub at the top of the shelf. Uh, 65 days later, 100% hatch rate. And that was about, you know, 80, 82 degrees. Wow. So they can go lower. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's interesting. I might have to try that. No, I'm just going to recommend it. I'm going to have to have a perfect success. You know, standard, standard Python operation. 88. Right. Uh, yeah. Just pulling the other miculata. You can wait ratio. Yeah. Squeeze it. We'll sponge in your hand and crumple it up. Right. Yeah. And then they're good. And they're pretty solid eggs. Okay. Very cool. Let's talk a little, uh, a little bit about some of the morphs. Um, you've hit on some of the things that you're working with. Uh, earlier in the conversation. Is there anything that you're working with that we didn't hit on? Um, no. No. No. No. We could just work with the, uh, with the blouse. Just, uh, working with the, uh, batiques. You know, last year I produced the, uh, the matrix, which was the, uh, the batique. Matrix combo was the, uh, the double vigil of both of them. I was from breathing a visual ivory to a batique male. Uh, 89 clutch. Eight of them came out to be, they were all going to be matrix regardless. The cost there is a damn with a visual library and everything that came out is going to come up. So it's a code down, so everything, the teeth that's going to come out. Matrix. We've got to also have the matrix genes. Eight of them are matrix. And, uh, awesome. Yeah. I mean, as, as you could tell, uh, Eric, you got one of them visually stunning animals. I think the, uh, the matrix gene really cleans up to the teeth. It cleans up that back pattern. Kind of like a, like a red and yellow granite bomb. Yeah. That's why I like it so much. Yeah. I'm going to go right. So I got to, I'm ready to describe me. It's amazing to get the pattern. You can just stare at them. And it's almost like three. You can look into different levels and layers and then add them. And they're really a really good looking animal. Yeah. I think that's right. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. No, no, I was going to move on to something else. Yeah. Go ahead. I'm saying I'm also working with the, uh, in the brown, the, uh, the lily, which is a, uh, which is a wide red traipas also show to be a, a co-dominant, which, uh, Matt Turner has worked them all certain works with DPI stock and he's, he's proven out what he believes to be a super addler lily, which is just an even more intense red animal and the characteristics of the lily is just a, the steel of red. It is a solid red. You don't get any of that, that black money. What's tipping in it? Okay. All the blacks, the black is very striking. And it just, it acts as like a, like a turbo charge. It's kind of like, uh, like a, like a, like an enhancer gene, kind of like in the, you know, when you deal with, uh, the royals, as you know, it's called the, uh, like the yellow belly or the, or the pastel. It just really amps up anything that it gets added to. It's like a really matrix won't look like a normal matrix. Aside from the coloration, it'll also, it'll also freak out the pattern a little bit. Right. Which is really nice. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. I hear that come up a lot, lily. Um, I know Matt's working with some of that stuff and I've seen that. Yeah. He has seen a nice stuff. It's a little, really albino stuff. He's outrageous. It's like I said, where it cleans up the red field, especially where it goes through in the albino and you really get a clean, a clean, bright, red animal. Yeah. Once once, yeah. Once the two neglilies come around, which I believe that turn on might be, uh, close to maybe doing it this year, that is an absolute stunner because all that, all that black, which is very striking in a lily is going to be all white. So, and with the red, wow, this is going to be, that's going to be a nice animal. Wow. Wow. That's really, uh, that's really cool. I like them a lot. Okay. Um, what else, uh, what else you got going on as far as, um, the red stuff, anything, anything that you maybe don't have that would, that you would like to get? I don't have any golden eyes. Anybody wants to just. Oh, no, go over the golden eye. Yeah. I mean, that is a cool morph for sure. Yeah. The cool morph and the super, the, uh, the magpie. That is obviously a one-term gold. That's a beautiful animal. Yeah. Of the golden eye and also the, uh, the pixel. Uh, Chris McCarrath, which is the, the peak golden eye, which is, it's just a, a beautiful representation of just both morphs combined the way. The way both, both morphs combined just to be equally patterned on the animal. You had the pixelated pattern of the, the teeth. On the side of the animal, which just needs a golden eye pattern on the back. Yeah. I, when, when you produce that in post pictures that I drew, I literally did, I shot in bed and I, I drew my, I drew my green, but I had a sunlight. I, I should get out of my head. That's funny because that's probably my favorite blood python morph that pans down. It's probably the coolest. That's just an awesome snake. Yeah. Okay. So if you have them in your future, is that something you're going to be working with maybe one day? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. There's, there's always those snakes that we're always shooting for that. Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to get that. The thing is, then you get it, but then something else catches your eye. Or a way to get that snake. Like on your way to golden eyes, you ended up getting carpet pythons. So it's like you turned left a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. That happens a lot too. So you really understand this. Yeah. I, I, I won a little crazy on that list when we have it. Yeah. You told me walk away from white planes with 13 belly cups in my hand. Yeah. That was awesome. I love it because someone came up to me and said, who's that guy? I'm like, he's just getting started, but damn, it's just getting started. So it's like that guy's going to be trouble with about three years. Give him a couple of years. And of course I keep joking because you're the only guy who's like systematically bought from me and Eric. So it's like, I keep joking with Eric. I'm like, you're, you're, you're pretty tight. I'm going to be pretty good flying. They're going to be forming, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't worry. I keep, I keep always stopping separate tubs. I call the project. Oh, thank God. You know, my creature is far away from me. Good. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Mine is probably twice a size of yours, but anyway. Yeah. It's probably true. A sexual breeding quarantine. [Laughter] Awesome. Awesome. Nice. Yeah. That's awesome. Oh, Owen. Oh, damn it. Yeah, but since that day I've probably bought twice as many proper iPhones. Yeah, that's solid, but surely coming up, I anticipate, you know, I have a house move coming up so I have an envisioning a new snake room soon with some slick casing. That's pretty much what I wanted to do. Yeah. That's also why I wanted to get into the, to the Morelia. Yeah. Just for the purpose of having some nice cages with some nice visual animals that I could actually see. So yeah, hopefully I have my blood room and then I'll have my, my Morelia room. That's cool. Yeah. Multiple rooms. If I can. If I can convince the wife. Right now she's wearing a power. But my snake room is also the utility room so it doubles as the, the washer and dryer in this. So my poor wife who's not a fan of the snakes after, you know, she goes near the laundry. She's a, she's a tormented by sable pythons popping at the tubs that she walks by. Yes. [Laughter] And all I hear from her down there is, ah, yes, son of a bitch. [Laughter] Every time she walks by and they're popping at the tubs. I don't care. I don't even know. She knows it's coming. She knows it's coming. That's awesome. It's not for her. It's so awesome. [Laughter] Oh, wow. Um, how about, uh, Borneo genetics? To me, uh, these are confusing. [Laughter] I really get confused on, um, Borneo genetics and as many times as it's explained to me, it's kind of like, there's no really. And, and there isn't. Yeah, they don't, uh, they don't subscribe to the, uh, the principles of, uh, of Mendelian genetics. They didn't read the book. [Laughter] They didn't, they didn't read the book. What? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. It seems to be more that it's, it's more levels within the more. Then, then, co-dom and dominant. Okay. Okay. That's what it seems to be. But it seems like, especially when you're dealing with the genes, like culture, latte, ghosts, and half a lot, which are pretty much all along the lines of the same genes, and different parallel lines. It seems like the further you go down the rabbit hole and breed and line breed them, you know, working towards a more popular animal that brings the whole tree with, with, you know, more of those within that. Would that be, would that be similar to what you would see and say a butter, a lesser Mojave type of thing? Um, no, because that's, I think it's not just going to bring it to where you're going to fit it. Okay. Well, that's, that's, I mean, those are, they're very similar. Yeah. Some different parallel lines. Like, I know there's a lot of, you know, arguments between like, uh, coral glows and bananas, which are probably, uh, yeah, that's what I was just going to say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which are probably one of the same genes from just different parallel lines. Gotcha. I find there were different pastel lines floating around. There were different caramells within the, uh, within the bloods that, I mean, from the balls that were floating around. But, uh, yeah, it's, you were just dealing with different parallel lines. Pretty much the same thing with the, uh, with the ultra latte, ghosts, and, and hosolace, that extent. Okay. I also deal with, I, I work with, with granite animals and also work with marble animals. And, and they also go to, you know, they used to be the thinking one of that. Grannett's will recesses and marbles were codum. And it just doesn't, it just doesn't hold true to that. It depends what you're breeding it to. I mean, if, if you're doing, like, what I, I'd read granite to granite, I'll get all granite animals. If you read granite or something other than granite, you might get no granite animals in that generation. And you might not get them in the next generation. So, somewhere down the line, it just, it all depends on the other animal you breed it to. It's not saying that that's how the round will the granite area. But some time. Right. The ultra gene might bring the granite back out. So you might have popped out some animals that are ultra with the sides backline on them. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I say with a lot of these, especially with the Borneos, you want to look towards not only the parents, but the grandparents. Just as you would be dealing with and just to see what you can get. You should set the goals. Like the friend that produced the Halloween break that you have. One of the, I acquired a, it was a, a super striped blonde female. Actually, that's the one that you also have now. All right. So my goal with that breathing was stripes have been made. I don't need to make any much strikes. If you want strikes, just go to Minnesota with the best strikes in the business. I'm not going to compete with those strikes. So my goal was to produce other animals with that really fiery red head. And I ended up getting a male from natural quantity, who had a male head ultra. That in itself was a very unassuming looking animal. It was a, it was a super slight. It wasn't a tight slight animal. It had a very broken back pattern. It wasn't a, it wasn't a fine-lined animal. And itself didn't have a red head, but it's never had the reddest head that I had ever seen on any other animal. So just knowing that, that genetics was in there, that was the goal of my breathing was to produce red head animals. In turn, I produced a, that was a very eclectic clutch. I produced the Halloween bright, which I called it. There's another one, which I have, which I call Wink, which has like a broken chain link pattern on the back. It's very, very black black, which is also getting, it's almost coming up on, you know, about a 10 months old. And it's getting a fiery red head. And how is the Halloween, is it getting, there's a red coming in on the head? Yes. Yes. And this is hopefully so, which by the time it hits 23 years old, hopefully it will have that really nice fiery red head like its mom does. Yeah, that's a, that's an awesome snake. I don't know if it's the, and then I saw the one, I guess the one you're talking about, Wink, is the one that you posted maybe a week ago or so. Yeah. And it kind of has the same color pattern, but, you know, the, I mean, the color is the same, but the pattern is just different. Yeah. It's more of like a chain link, like spider, webbing pattern on the back. Yeah. And that's, that's really cool. So I guess it's just, I guess the, well, the cool thing, I guess, about the Borneos is that you really don't know what you're going to get. You have an idea. Yeah. And that's my 5th accident, especially of being a small prime breeder. I like variety in the clutch. Right. I love about the Borneos. I think it's together with two other swimming animals, but just depending on its lineage and what's degeneration. That, that, 18 babies, you're going to have 18 different looking animals. Right. Wow. So that's because then you had objects on your hair. So choose the one. Well, this is going to have some of them. They're going to. I tried. So you're going to have some, some other funky backhand and you might have some one with the spectral sides. Also a ghost. That's all. Hmm. What would be the characteristic that makes something, say, an ultra is it just the. The. Yeah. Well, yeah, we're sorry. Like I said, the tour jeans you're dealing with, the ultra, the latte, the ghost and the ocelot. It's the coloration. If they, if they create color based pattern, sometimes it's grayish or silver. They'll have a. Usually the. The dorsal patterning will be different from, from a normal Borneo. Like times they'll have just the, uh, a door. They'll have a stripe on the dorsal ridge. Gotcha. Okay. And this is a lot of metallic colors. There'll be metallic silvers and metallic gold in it. Now, how does the, uh, the blue ghost. And that's. That was a line. We're flying by peak, the peak from his original founding ghost line. And he just. Through his line breeding. He just developed animals that would have to propose you to them. And that some of them when they turn on, they are, they are amazing animals. I'm sure you've seen some of some of Matt's. Yeah. Yeah. And when they turn on, they are on and they are. They are. Purple people eaters. They really are something to look at. Yeah. I, I, I guess pictures don't do them justice and it's kind of like one of those things. Where when you see it in person, you're like, holy shit. That is cool. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. So I guess really, and then I guess another cool aspect of it is that you can just kind of like, uh, look at a trait that you'd like and just kind of sort of breathe towards that and. You know, um. Like, you know, with, with Borneo's, it seems that you can really do some really nice refining in, uh, certain traits. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's. I see a bowl. You could. Work with two genetically striped animals that just have a single stripe. Kind of like also, like, like a deal with the topics like the tigers. You know, you produce two, two tigers together. You've done to get, you know, some animals across. It even tighter strikes. Cleaner stripes. That's, that's, that's been proven also with the Borneo's. Yeah. There's a lot of exciting things. And you're not going to, the, the genetics are in a solid. Whereas like, like I'm hoping to produce, you know, just by producing, uh, you know, breeding a marble head ultra with a super stripe head ultra. My goal would be obviously an animal to be super priced ultra with marble sides. It's starting to work like that. It's, I mean, I might get an animal that resembles that, but it's not like you're dealing with clean genetics like you're dealing with on a ball python. You throw three jeans into the mix and it's cool. And you know, exactly what you did before the thing hatches. Right. Right. Oh. Whoo. That's. That's what's the interesting about the Borneo's. Cause no, no two people born, you know, are going to look the same. I mean, pretty much now at this point, I've been doing this such a long time. I could just look at a picture of an animal and I could tell who's lying. It came from. I could tell me that animal if that's a key to peak animal, if that's a DPI animal. Right. They just come up there over time. I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Just. Yeah. Your finding of the lines. That's kind of cool because if you put the work in, you really can stand out, you know, have your own formula. Yeah. Oh, that's. That's pretty cool. It's kind of a long way. You look at some of the stuff now. I mean, you look at some of, of match, a lot of stuff. And you look at where it is now compared to you look at a wild court normal Borneo. It's, it's like years away from, from where they came from. Yeah. You know, you know, it's crazy is I remember, I remember going to. I've, I've had, I think the thing that sucked me into, uh, to short tails is, uh, I think two incidents and the one, the first one was, I think when Matt first posted up a picture of the Ocelot, the first year he produced it. I just was totally blown away. Like, what the hell is that? You know? You know, um, and then I remember going over. It's funny because I was talking to Matt for a while about, you know, getting into, uh, getting into them. And, uh, you know, I asked him if I could go over to his place and check out what he's got going on. And, you know, he was, you show me and you had posted up a picture. Uh, I guess it was from last year's breeding season where he kind of had three different. I guess you had a Beatrix, the, you know, that, uh, link and. Yeah. You know, you know, that picture, I didn't even really know you at the time. I just saw that picture. I said, Matt, I like that right there. Whatever that is. I want it. Yeah. I'm like, who's this guy? And what is that? Because that is the coolest group of snakes I've ever seen in my life. And that was just the, uh, the one, the one holdout from each of the four countries I could do this last year. I, I took that picture. Yeah. So it's just the, uh, you know, I don't know. It's just, that's just crazy that, uh, I don't know. Now I have that animal in my collection and I get to see, you know, I don't know. It's just nuts. But, uh, that is, uh, we're an animal from that pairing. Um, but yeah, they, they, they just. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy about Bonnie. She's different. Somebody here. Unique animal. Yes. Very cool. So, um, I saw that you were working with, uh, with Womas. Uh, have you bred those guys? Oh. Oh, no. Not again. Oh, he dropped. And you know what? I don't know if he'll be able to call back in. Cause we're that far in. Yeah. Let's see. We'll give it a, I hate not saying a proper goodbye. I know. Obsessed you so much. Well, it's not fair to the, uh, to the guest, you know, I don't want to be like. Yes. And he wants to throw his own stuff out there and such. Oh, there it is. Let's get him back on. Be sure to get caught on. Yeah. There we go. You back on. Hello. Oh, they lost him again. Crap. You might have a bad connection. It's like a time clock. I see it. We're not going to be able to get him in. Oh, God. This is a lot. You know, blocked off. Change is something we, you know, have a show where we have technical difficulties and you have to get back to it. There he is. Let's see. The moon landing. The moon landing. How do you share them? Yeah. 46, 46 years ago, they bean back live television from the surface of the moon that was never done before. And it was in black and white, but it was clear. And I'm on an iPhone. The center of the biggest city in the world and I can't even care for section. Yeah. It's from New Jersey to. Pennsylvania. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Oh, so. Anyway, I was saying, did you work, did you produce walnuts? Have you bred them yet? Are you just? No, I haven't. I haven't bred them yet. I have a reverse tree. I love them. Probably. I'm going to. Probably. I mean, they're probably ready this year, but I didn't do anything with them. So probably next year. Yeah. I love walnuts. They're great. They're like the perfect Python. I hear that a lot. Why do you say that? What's your feelings? Just their durability. They're nice. They're a big dry animal. They don't muss up a cage. They're just their size. I always look at some of my snakes and different species. Like, you know, I would just like just have a whole room with just these. Why don't I just have 50 walnuts? Yeah. Yeah. Never mind. Yeah. And then something else, you know. She's my eye. Yeah. And then you'll get to put the rest. Nah, but you have a walnut is a great. That's cool. Yeah. It's hard to find people that really, I don't know, there's very few people that. There's people that breed them, but you don't really find people that are like, again, really, you know, working on refining. I think of Barry Miller. I know his walnuts are amazing. Yeah. That's the whole idea of stuff. Yeah. My, my, my, my walnuts are from Barry Miller. And I know, hey, I'm not sure if there's a name out in California. It has some amazing, amazing stuff. Really nice, cool-handed animals. Yes. There are two guys that I think. Yeah. I love them. They're issue-free animals. They eat every time they garbage cans. Yeah. We now have no problems. Yeah. No problems. I mean, it's all have a, have a, you know, a rat that goes hunting that I'll find in one of my tubs. I'll just throw it to one of the walnuts. They like them nice and the right anyway, so. Yeah. That was the waste with a walnut in the house. Awesome. Yeah. I kept them for a little while, and I wish I would have kept the pair that I had. I had Barry Miller ones as well. I shouldn't have let them go. But one day, you know, when space is a, is a, of issue, you have to pick and choose certain projects and. I think that was one that. Didn't make mine are gone because they were psychotic. So I'm totally cool that they left and they'll never come back. So that's what you say. Yeah. I kind of say I'm walking with my three, mine and mine are pretty, pretty calm. I mean, they will do like the Womatoo, where they'll just slowly run. They'll just sniff back and then they'll just clamp on. It's cute. Yeah. It's adorable. Awesome. Any other cool things you're working with that maybe we don't know about? Oh, I got a Sabu type on. Yeah. I don't think I'm ready to set up to go full blown Mac lots to do that. Sabu's a nice. I like them. Yeah. I'd love to. I'm not buying a lot. Those are beautiful. They may be in the new house. I'll see. You know, buy it for yourself. Yeah. Exactly. I have a spot of pythons. I got both the Cape Walk and the granite says. Okay. Oh, cool. Yeah. I like those. Those are great also. Those are like a python and a corn snake package. Yes. Great. If those got a little bit bigger, I mean, those would be great. Yeah. Great. Never fused through durable. Mm hmm. Yeah. I think I have a. Go ahead. I think with the, I was going to say, I think with all the talk of the big snakes and whatnot. Those, I see those type of species becoming more and more popular over the coming years. Yeah. I'm with the more coming about. I think someone here, the albinos should be making their way stateside soon. So, uh huh. So. That'd be cool. Yeah. Let's check what the, the marble children I. Those have been one since like they showed, since we shot, Sean pictures of them for the first time. Having one that I always thought would be cool if they showed up here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like everything. Just like everything eventually will. Yeah. No, you know, I also have a passion. I, I'm going to actually have a small amount of royals. I'm proud to say. Eric, can I tell you that that's okay. I won't. So, you know, that's. Oh, it is. It's not a fan, but I am a fan. I'm sorry. Steve, Steve, Steve, always been a, they've always been a figure. They staple my collections since the beginning. And I just had a male normal that just passed and I had the 23 years. Wow. Yeah. Then, you know, I mean, I, I couldn't give two shits about the ball market. I think it's funny that I was able to take a banana male this year for 300 bucks. Knowing that. Oh my God. Knowing that that thing was $30,000 only a handful years ago. Are you. Right. 200. Oh, I mean 300 bucks. Yeah. I mean, I know everyone says, oh, they're for the kids, but do enjoy them. And if they want to hold a snake, that's the one snake I can and offer them no problem. I'm not. Yeah. They're good. They're good ambassadors for the, for the show and tell. So. I'll agree to that. Yeah. I'm still have a special. What would the word be? I guess maybe nostalgia for me because like I said before, when I was getting into. When I was a young kid, I remember going to a pet shop. And this, they had a pet ball python. And they would not sell it no matter how many times I asked. And nobody worked with, you didn't see them anywhere. You know, you go to Martin's aquarium or anything like that. Yeah. You would not see ball pythons. You'd see berms. You'd see. You know, I've seen retics, I've seen all, you know, all these other, you know, crazy pythons, but nobody really gave two shits about ball pythons. And I don't know. It's just you look in that book, boas and pythons or pythons and boas or whatever. And you know, it's just, there's like a picture of it sprawled out. I'm like, wow, that's really cool. You know, I don't know. I don't even care so much about the morphs. I just like the normal looking ball python. Yeah, and you've got these and they're full pythons and they were around for 60,000 years before a bunch of idiots made a, you know, shitty market based around them. So you can't hate on the animal based on the, you know, by working on it. Hate on the people, not the animal, wouldn't they? Hate people. Don't hate the animal. Yeah. So I'm with you. I'm with you, Lon. Actually, it's funny today I didn't take a picture because I don't want to hear. Oh, and you know, y'all and that, me or whatever. But it was actually a year ago. Well, it was about a year ago. I bought these snakes and fish shipping and whatever is always just not worked out. But I got a pastel head desert ghost and a head desert ghost pair. I don't know. There's something about that desert ghost thing that I just, I think is cool. I understood about half of that, but go on. But, uh, but I don't know. It's just, I don't know. It's something different, you know. At least for me, I'm used to dealing with carpets and, you know, all these scrubs and whatnots and to see something like that. It's just different. Yeah. I'm 15 years late to the game. I produced my first bumblebee this past season. That's all the only people in the country to do. And that was the only time I walked. I mean, after seeing, you know, after seeing nerd when they first produced them, you know, 50,000 bucks for that thing. Yeah. It's the first two gene combo. That's one of the nicest, you know, full Python. It's actually made to even hold on to that. And then call it, you know, pretty much everything else is going to look like a normal after three years. No matter what it's looking like. Right. Well, I'm like, my day has come. Watch out, people. And there I come with my bumblebee. Awesome. All right. That's cool. I guess it's you. Cool. So what is you to keep any species on the planet regardless of law or money? What would you keep? Whoo. Waggler's life is. What? Waggler's. Yes. Waggler's hair. Cool. Cool species. Oh, yeah. Well, that's the first one. I mean, you know, you said some crazy things, but that's the first one. Yeah. Now, can you go anyplace on a herping trip? Where'd you go? Australia. Australia. Yeah. Nice. Just to see some of this stuff in the wild would be outrageous. Just to walk around just to see, you know, a mob of a run past you and see a blackhead python, or a hole that would be. Yeah. It would be cool. I'm with you. And how does someone get in touch with you if they want to track down a blood or anything like that? I'm on stage book. My name, Lauren Paxler. D-E-I-M-L-E-R. I could be finding any of the blood python groups on there. Or also CurtisForum.org. I'm a moderator on that site. I'm excellent. Anybody interested in blood and sweat cells? Sign up over there. It's a fantastic forum. A lot of knowledgeable people. Keith McPeek is also a moderator over at the forum. I'm very willing to help. Like I told people, having Keith McPeek at the ready to answer your blood python questions is like having bay boots on speed dial to answer your batting questions. I mean, aside from blood and sweat cells, there's not a snake, the bread, the shore of the bones, and he's working on that also. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, yeah. It's a really great forum. You know, it's really cool. So, Lauren, I'm going to try to make it out to Carpetfest. I know Matt would kind of like it if he wasn't the only blood guy out here. And you have more Carpet than he does. Yeah, yeah, definitely. The May 30th. Yeah. Yep. Of course, I'm just, you know, I just, oh. See the jab? I'm glad I love the thing. Just to get Matt pissed again. So. I think we might have lost him again. Again. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. There you are. Yeah, I got you. Okay. Yeah. When did I drink? Yeah. Yeah. I think we lost you again. Oh. Oh. Oh. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Thanks for coming on. It was. We cut out again. It was awesome. Thanks for coming on. I want to see the, you know, the switch between the two. How do you take it on both? Absolutely. Cool. Awesome. All right, guys. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I'll definitely catch you over at Carpet. Okay. Thanks. All right. Have a good night. You too. Yeah. Cool. Cool. Bloods. Borneos. Sumatran's. I love it. You're good. You're as good as that. I already have a blood. So we won't do that thing that we do or keep doing where we have a show. And then like a week later I buy what the show was on. So. Well, you don't have a Borneo. And you don't have a. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. I'm just throwing it out there. I mean. No, you're not. I found my little. Let me be happy in my bubble. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of cool guy. He makes some awesome snakes. If he does. So you should check them out on Facebook. See what he's got going on. I'm definitely big in the black ones. Like if you have a. You have one of those, right? Yes. I have a female that came from Jackson. Which is from. You should talk the one and get a male this year. Sir. When have you known me not to be planned ahead and advanced? I have already spoken to. You are on board the tone book. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll have you know, it's page two hundred and thirty five. Yes. You had the. What do you call it? The what? Your magic tone book. Your quilt pen. Yeah. It's it's important to plan, my friend. It's important to plan. Makes a difference. Yeah. Ever since I saw, if you go over the lawns Facebook page and you look at the top, you'll see that black Sumatran with the orange eye staring at you. Ever since I seen that picture, I knew that. You're done. I had to work with with some Sumatran's and to try to get ones that were, you know, that jet black. Like I said, I'm surprised they're not as popular. You know, I guess people like the color in a contrast to what not. But come on, man, a solid black snake. It's hard to beat. Hard to beat. It is. It is. It is. But, I would normally insert my wood. I'd love to see it on a carpet fight on color thing here. But just the shape and of the head and the eyes that go with these things just make it even better. So. Yeah. The, I am a fan of the orange heads though. I like that contrast. So I kind of like them both. And hopefully one day I'll be able to work with both. I know I don't got it. I know that they're not easy to find. The orange-headed ones. Unless they're caramel, binos, or hats, which kind of, I believe the hats are kind of like they throw some goofy stuff. Kind of like, yeah, I guess like, het exanic. You kind of, you know, can tell what's going on somewhat. I believe they're the same, same story. Yeah, so. Yeah. I don't know. I got nothing else. And there we go. I think we can go so carpet fest t-shirts. We hit 30. We did hit 30. Okay. We hit 30. We hit 30. I'm kind of surprised that we didn't sell more. That we're having blown past it. We only have till the 9th of April. So I do know that Darien, well, I don't know if you could carry him or not, because he ordered, he and his life usually ordered too. And I didn't know what was going on with that. So I got to talk to you about that one. I saw your deal. No. So we are at 30. We have 20 more to go before we get our goal of 50. I usually set the goal pretty low for these kinds of things. It's usually people who are just coming. But it isn't just if you're coming to carpet fest, you can just grab it. It's one of those things where I was wearing my original t-shirt for the original carpet fest the other day. And it's cool just to have them all. You know, of course, we did miss one year. We didn't make t-shirts, but it's cool to have them all and it's something to kind of look back at. And if you do not get these now and you send me an email, you can't get them after this. It's not like after a carpet fest, we're going to have tons going to be cheaper. This is it. If you do not order it now, you have to wait until the 2016 carpet fest t-shirt, and it will be a different design. So you cannot get the albino carpet python on the t-shirt unless you order it now. Like how last year we had the gray shirt with the jag on it, we are going to change it up for next year. So you want to go get it? Don't wait. Right. And all the proceeds go to USR. Go to USR. Right now, I think we've raised $140. I'd like that to go a little bit higher, especially since we're going to go to the auction will be for USR as well. And, you know, please, please contribute. You get a cool t-shirt and you're going to go straight to USR. And we're going to put it towards the legal defense thing. Yes, yes, all for that. And we'll be getting together stuff for the auction very soon. If you want to contribute to the auction, drop me a line. Also, if you have any questions about carpet fest, drop me or Erica line. For what I hear so far, it's going to be a pretty good time with all the people that are coming. I will admit one thing that Howard Redding is bringing Maryland crabs. And then Mike Curtin is bringing New Jersey clams. So all of a sudden it's going to become a seafood affair. And I'm totally okay with that. Totally fine with it. Likewise. And I'm expecting Josh to sort of head down with some lobsters. Exactly. I mean, what's next? I mean, God, that's fantastic. But the funny thing is that we haven't had Mike Curtin out to one of these things before. And if you've ever been to White Plains and talked with Mike, he is a really cool guy. And he's got some of the craziest looking jungles you could ever see. So I'm definitely happy he's going to make you up to this one. I'm bringing the kids and the wife, so it should be a fun time. And it's just going to be a good time. I can't wait for it to come about. And I've already started working on stuff around the house to prepare for it. So if you want to come, definitely come. Also, we have the Sunday after Carpenters have the behind the scenes tour of Reptiland and Allentown. It's Clyde Peeling's All Reptiland too. There's maybe two or three slots available to go with us behind the scenes. Want to check on that? If not, we can always try to set up another group behind the scenes. You wouldn't go with us. You'd go in a different group. I want to go with you, Owen. I want to go with you. You guys are going to be annoying. Of course, if we're going to set up another group, we're going to need more than... You can't just be like the 10 of us and one of the guys. So, if you've got to be one of the people who might want to do it. Otherwise, draw straws. I can't do it, Eric. I mean, that's fine with me. Totally cool with that. So high-end. You might be good with that. I am. Well, anyway. Listen. Oh, jackass. Yeah, I mean, Carpetfest is, I guess, going to be a change this year. So, I'm hoping that people that maybe didn't want to drive all the way to Maryland, don't have as far to go now in being in Pennsylvania. And actually, Owen, you're not all that far from Maryland, right? From Buddy? You're what? So, I guess the cool thing is that you can network, you know, with the people in the Carpet python world on East Coast, you know, and hopefully, well, we know Bill's coming. So, Bill's a multi-species guy. Carpetfest has t-shirt that fits, but that's between you and Bill. Yeah. And, you know, just to be able to hang out and geek out about snakes and just, you know, things that you think and talk shop and all that kind of stuff. And then, you know, to get the know the people on a personal level, you know, have a good time, laugh, you know, eat, drink, you know. You married. Yeah. Yeah. You can't beat it. Don't wreck my house, but it's one of those things where it's, and of course, we automatically say, you know, you do not bring snakes that you intend to sell. Do not think that this is, you know, the best way for you to unload a box of animals by bringing them here. So, this is not a show. This is fun. This is enjoyment. If you end up selling snakes just by talking with people, that's totally fine. Don't set up a move at my house. I told you not to do that, Eric. I was just going to set it up right at the bar. Smash that high end crap. But anyway, it just calm, relax, have fun, and it will be a good time. And of course, my snake will be open. We can show people around, check some stuff out. I might have some species that you do not have never had interactions with. You can handle the white lips at your own peril. I won't be touching them, but that is some of the thing. Good luck with that. It's also something cool that happens. It's going to be fun. So, yeah. And it's just one of those things that we hope everybody comes out for. And you don't necessarily have to go to with us to plot its place on Sunday. But if you do that to you, better. And please let me know if you guys need help finding hotels in the area. Work out for anything like that. I can try to do it for you, search for it. Okay? Yeah. Except for you, Eric. And you have no help. Yeah. And don't forget the Northwest. Yeah. It's now officially. September 12th. Stay tuned for more details about that. Yeah. So, we're going to be putting you in a crate and shipping you delta to dog out there, right? Yeah. Yeah. Would you like a magazine inside your crate? I'll take the complete carpet python book. Okay. Do we need a heat pack for you? Will you stay warm enough? I don't know, you know, I don't have the thick coat that I used to have. So, I might need maybe a 20 hour heat coat. I mean a heat pack. I'll give you 72 because we're friends. Okay. Man, you're swell. Maybe two air holes. I hope I don't show up on Monday, the day after carpet fest because that would really sound. That would be hilarious. I hope I'm not the lady. But he's lost. I'm delayed in shipping or something like that. We're in Tennessee. Yep. Yep. That'd be funny. He's at the south carpet fest. No, it's supposed to be the northwest. Eric, you've got to. Good times for sure. Let's see. Let's wrap this up, I guess, and head on out. So, you got your carpet fest info. Follow us on Facebook. Carpetfest. Follow us on Twitter. Same thing. Carpetfest. And we also have Carpetfest.homestead.com for updates, more info on all the Carpetfests that are happening. It's good to see just the community getting together and grow. We'll just be traveling all around the place. Oh my God. She's fine by me. I don't have any money. Yeah. I guess we've got to sell some snakes. They have them. So, let's see. Morely Python radio. Next week, I am very happy to have, I believe, Jay McClure. Oh my God. It's going to be coming on and chatting with us. So, very cool to talk to Jay. I saw him at White Plains and he has some really cool projects that he's working on. Hopefully, we'll get to talk about it. He breeds a lot of different, I believe he breeds Boas as well. Carpet's Boas. Diamonds, jungles. It's quite impressed with his attention to detail when it comes to selective breeding for specific looks or traits. We have a couple other cool guests. I have to solidify a date, but Tim Tyndall is going to be coming on at some point and we're going to be talking inland carpets. So, that should be cool as well. I'd like to get some more blood and short tail talk. I think that would be cool. Still trying to work on that round table. Having the guys talk. And of course, we'll have to have another carpet round table so that we can have Nick on and we can all say we're not worthy. We're not worthy. No, we're not. It's every question answered immediately. I really wanted Nick to come on the round table, the Kondra round table. That's why I wanted him to come on. Because his views on Kondros are a little bit different than say some of the people that we've had on the Kondra round table. And it's not that I want to see them fight. It's just that I like the discussion. It is. Yeah, I think that the discussion is what pushes the knowledge forward. I mean, if everybody just agreed on everything, nobody would be kind of a boring world. But the fact that people have different views and different ideas. And I mean, just tonight I learned a bunch of stuff and was just listening to the lawn that I never thought of. It's just listening to all these keepers and breeders and picking their little minds. If you can get one tip per show, I think then the show is worth it. And then to have four or five different breeders on and I don't know, just be throwing ideas back and forth. That's kind of the idea of the round table. That is the idea of the round table. But you know, once a while we do kind of go off on a little side thing, but we always come back. It's okay. Yeah. Yeah. So for us. Maralee Python radio.com, you want to get in contact with us. Best ways to send us an email info at Maralee Python Ray.com. You can download the show for free on iTunes. Apparently if you, I think we've narrowed this down, but apparently if you're listening to the show on the blog talk site and it's on your phone, you're only going to get a few of the past episodes. So you'd have to go to like a desktop computer and then it will show you all the past episodes or you can just go to iTunes and you can get all the past episodes are all there all archive for your listening pleasure. That's it for Maralee Python radio. You can like our Facebook page, follow us on Twitter. Maralee Python and Maralee Python radio for Facebook. As far as myself, ebmaralee.com. I have a lot of work to do on the websites. The season has been kind of crazy and they kind of have been focusing on the snakes. So I'm sorry that the websites are not staying where they should be, but you know, I have a lot of ideas and there's a lot of pages that they're not turned on and you know, all that kind of stuff. You know, sometimes you have to choose Owen. Do you want the website or the animals? So I have some cool pairings. Probably the best way to get updates for me is to go over to the website and I have a newsletter that I send out. So you can check that out, sign up for that there whenever I release things like say if I was going to release any Tiger head albinos, they would be released through that first. So you might want to subscribe to that. If you want to get in contact with me, it's Eric at ebmaralee.com. Now, that's all I got. I got, you know, if you're interested in any of the clutches, you can go to the 2015 pairing page, the breeding page, and you can check out what we have. And if you see something that you're interested in, by all means contact me and I'll put you on the list. That's all I got. All right. What I got is you can go to rogue-reptiles.com. We're in the process of updating it, redoing the animal bios as we shift over some of our projects. There's a few other things. Also, we have all the babies that are for sale on the website. You can also go to roguereptiles@facebook.com, give us a like there, and you're actually getting more up-to-date version of what's for sale at the Facebook page. Usually, we put something up there first, and then we throw something up on the website, and then it goes up to the general public. Right now, we just threw up two of our black-faced, white-lit males, surplus males that are for sale, and those are only on the Facebook page for now. So, that's that. You can also give us a call. Check us out and do all that fun stuff. For shows, I think the next show we have is April 28th in Hamburg, Pennsylvania. Other than that, we are showless at the moment. So, now would be the time to spring on a baby. As far as the 2015 clutches, I had no freaking idea what's happening over here. So, stay tuned for when that happens. At this point, I can't even say perspective like caring or anything like that. I'll let you guys know when I hit the ground what the health of parents were, okay? So, you guys can, we can figure it out from there. So, that's all we got here, and that's all I got for me. And what we will say is thank you all for turning in, and we will catch you next week for some more Moralia Python radio. Good night. Hey, Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL, or as a reptile breeder and the owner of Proxox. I've been herping since I was a boy, and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breathing and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Markland and I create the reptile report. 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