Morelia Python Radio

The constrictor ban.

In this episode we are discussing the recent addition of reticulated pythons and green anacondas to the Lacey Act. As many of you know the US fish and wildlife just finalized the "constrictor rule" which bans the sale and movement of burmese pythons, indian pythons, green and yellow anaconda, african rock pythons, and reticulated pythons across state lines and added them to the lacey act. We have been told the next step in reversing this ruling is to sue the government. USARK needs all the help and support it can get at this time. http://usark.org/ We will also be unveiling of the new carpet fest T shirt. MPR has chosen them once again to be the recipients of the funds raised by both t shirt sales and auction this year. So everyone grab a really cool shirt show love and support for both MPR and USARK. http://www.booster.com/carpetfest2015

Duration:: 2h 55m
Broadcast on:: 11 Mar 2015
Audio Format:: other

Hey Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in NFL or as a reptile breeder in the owner of Proxox. I've been hurtin since I was a boy, and I've dedicated my life to advancing the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breathing and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Marklin and I create the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site bringing you the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of the latest reptile news and information. I encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news, photos and links, so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. The reptile report offers powerful brandy and marketing exposure for your business, and the best part is it's free. If you're a buyer or a breeder, you've got to check out the reptile report marketplace. The marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling destination, full of features to help put you in touch with the perfect deal. Find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system, searched by sex, weights, morph, or other keywords, and use our buy-it-now option to buy that animal right now. Go to marketplace.the reptilereport.com and register your account for free. Be sure to link your marketplace account to your ship your reptiles account to earn free tokens with each shipping label you book. Use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies and maximize your exposure with a platinum med. It also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page. Buy your own selling, use shipereptiles.com, and take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. Shipereptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use shipereptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. The materials needed to ship the reptile successfully live customer support in our live, on-time, arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptilereport.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace. Find that perfect pet or breeder. Then visit shipreptiles.com to ship an animal anywhere in the United States. We are your one-stop shop for everything reptile related. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Hello everybody. Welcome to another Epidomeralia Python radio. Tonight we're talking about the constrictor band. I don't know where to start with this one. There's a lot of thoughts and different things. I don't even know where we stand all on this issue. We have Zach Bias who's joining us tonight. I don't know. I guess maybe we'll get passionate at times. We will see. What I've decided is that I'm selling all my snakes and I'm now starting to breathe kittens. It's the only way to stay ahead of the curve is to now move out of reptile into mammal. So for those who don't know or maybe for people that don't find what has happened. We've been living under a rock with your pictures in your ears. Let us now tell you what happened last week. This past Friday, U.S. Fish and Wildlife added the Reticulated Python and the remaining species of Anaconda to the Lacy Act. Basically what that means is that you can still keep these animals. You can still breathe these animals. But you cannot transport them across state lines. There's also no importation into the country, correct? Correct. I did see, though, no, you can still export the animals. However, I think the stipulation is that if you put the animal on a plane, it cannot cross state lines. So it has to be leaving the country. Meaning, yeah, if it would leave out of Florida, it can't go to Atlanta. All right, so exporting out of the country, you can do that. And of course, after the ruling is when we start seeing people who own these animals, a lot of them are selling like crazy. A lot of them are holding on to them. And of course, other people are saying that they're waiting for the next step before they start trying to sell their animals. I applaud the guys who are sticking in there, who are refusing to just cut, run, drop all their animals, get them all up and do all that stuff. These are living things. They can't just huck them around. So I like those guys. Well, I guess the irony is that they're passing this law. And I think it's 30 days. So it's April 9, maybe. I'm not 100%. So it was 30 days from Monday, I think it's one actually. It is 30 days because that's when the booster ends. So I know exactly the last 30 days. So we'll get that. Oh, we may have picked the wrong time for that. But anyway, the same day the Python ban finalized it anyway. Oh, man, I think I think the first thing that I would say, and I don't agree with this or not, but I'll let you guys comment. I think the debate about the actual keeping and breeding of large constrictors. That's a discussion that needs to be had. That's something that may be put in a spotlight on maybe something that necessarily didn't need the spotlight on. I'm going to go on record and say my personal belief is I think that large constrictors like that should have had a permit system in place. Not necessarily by the government, but I think that we as the reptile nation community, whatever you want to call it should have worked with the government or US Fish and Wild, whoever it would be. I don't even know who you would work with with that. Well, in our state, it would be the both commission. And come up with, you know, I mean, Florida has it in place. I don't know. I just don't think that a large constrictor is something that everybody should own. That being said, I feel a little bit hypocritical and I say that because I have pythons that can grow, what, maybe eight to 10 feet. Is that, is that too long? Like where, you know, I get it. You still have barnecks, right? So that's over 10. No, I don't have barnecks anymore. I'm sorry. Anyway, the, I can agree and I can also say that it is kind of hypocritical. But I have seen the other end of it where people don't know how to keep the large guys safely or properly. And I understand this is just a small percentage of the keepers. But, you know, that there, it kind of like these animals are no joke. And I never, kind of why I never got into them is I never trusted myself with them. Also, you know, dealing with the retic that we had at the zoo, we had a 16 footer at the zoo and she was a monster. And, you know, that was one of those things where you had to go in there with a riot shield because she came flying at you the second you opened the door, but it's fine. Yeah, well, I mean, I don't know. I think that they're all individual animals. Similar to what you would see in any species of python or reptile or snake. I mean, I've seen guys that handle them, you know, super tame. I think, I think my issue is, is the spacing for the animal, you know, like the caging. Yeah, to keep that. The fact that you could let your guard down an animal. I think that's the problem, right? I mean, if you have an animal like that, let your guard down. If you let your guard down with a ball python or a carpet. It nibbled you. Yeah. And, of course, it's the same way for venomous breeders. And if you let your guard down, you're dead. So I can understand that there are people who do this properly and have the gauges and have the animals and know what they're doing and have retics that are popular. And have retics that are puppy dog, tame and stuff like that. I just, you know, and those are the people I would want to have these things. It's that there is probably a good percentage of the owners out there who are people I wouldn't trust. Right. I don't know. Zach, what do you think? First, this ruling or this finalization of this thing kind of brought up all the questions that have been swirling around about retics in general and their whole market in general and the popularity that retics have gotten over the last whatever three years or so. And that's a discussion that Althig has really been had since this has happened. I think everybody, you know, it's going to have to be had and whether, I mean, you have to train the fall. You have to, you know, yeah, it's going to ultimately affect these animals and they're not going to stop right at these animals. And then you have some people which will tell you, maybe not publicly, but will tell you in private that maybe this was a good decision. You have people out there who believe that. And so, you know, and people in reptile industry believe that. So, you know, where you fall on that is something that a lot of people don't really like. People like to talk about the one side, right, the one side that is the popular side to be on. But I know that there's a few people, right, that are on that other side. And it's tough. I mean, it's hard to, it's hard, you know, sometimes, you know, I've always said that, you know, keeping our instructors is, you know, that big. I know I can do it, all right, I don't trust myself to do it. I don't know many people who could do it, right? Like if I could count on my hand, people I would trust to keep an animal like that. So, you know, that's the, that's kind of the side to point because the mindset of the people who are doing this, they're not doing this to protect necessarily the animals or to protect the industry. They are doing this to destroy the industry. So, that motivation is different. And so, that motivation, the results of that motivation, while some people would say is a good thing, some people would say it was a bad thing. So, I'm not saying I agree with that, but this is what I've been seeing out there as people have been talking to me about out there. Is that they believe that, you know, it's really interesting about, well, I would say maybe six months ago, you had all these people coming out, right? Saying, oh, retreats are being quite way too much, retreats are flooding the market, and where all these animals are going to go, and what's going on? Where are those people now? You know, where are those people now who are complaining about that? They're actually on the other end now. They're actually saying, you know what I mean? Like any regulation is a bad thing, but wait a minute, six months ago, you were saying there was too many of these animals around. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, it's really funny how that kind of works out. I believe that we should have solidarity and we should be, we should come together. But to say that this was not coming is, I think, four hours. This is coming. Well, I think... What I would like is that, first of all, I don't like, I don't like the fact that it's now we're being told what we can't keep. I mean, I first off, I would love it if there was some kind of thing. Like, hey, if I want to keep this, okay, you must now do this. Look, guys, that's kind of... Yeah, but we're not being told what we can keep. Right. We're not being told we can't keep them. That's true. We can't do what we can and can't do with it. We're not even told you can't breed them. You just can't cross the problem. The problem is, if I'm a retake keeper, I'm not even a breeder. A couple pet retics or not even retics. Just like, berms or whatever. And now I got to move and now I got to ditch my pet. And that would... That sucks. Absolutely. I can't... I can't begin to imagine what that would be like. I can't even either. I mean, it's like... And that's the part that gets me. I'm being told that I can't keep it because now I have to go. I did everything right and I found a place that was going to be okay with me bringing the snake. And I made sure I had room for the cages and everything and all that other stuff. But now I'm being told that I cannot do it because it would be illegal to drive it. Still in my care to the new place. Um... You know. Yeah. I guess... Go ahead. I imagine that this way you guys live... I mean, you guys live so close to the Jersey border. I'm at 15 minutes down the road and now you're in a different state. And I know Jersey has rules about constrictors already in place, but I'm just using that as an example. You can move for 15 minutes down the road. That's not even a major move to me. That would be like moving closer to work and still can't bring it with you. And that's the part that I hate. So... Yeah. Well... I wish they would have worked with us a little bit. Also, it seems like when the berm ruling was coming down the pipe. There was so much. Just... I was hearing about that thing every five seconds. Years have come and everybody do this. Everybody do that. Everybody go, go, go, go, go. And not just from people like, like U.S. Department of Things. I was talking like breeders, keepers, and everybody. I didn't know that they were going to finalize this rule until the day before. Well, it's been... This has been something that's been ongoing since, what, 2009? I didn't. You know? Here's my problem. Not a bit. Here's my problem. Yeah, I know. And this is kind of my problem, one of my issues with the reptile community in general. And I'm even going to go on record to say that I'm guilty of this as well. I mean, oh, and you have a platform every week that we could talk about things like this and educate people. And, you know, it seems like when this thing comes up, everybody goes all in to full on, I don't know, for lack of a better word, you know, defense. Like, we're going to do this. And, you know, and then three months from now, it's just accepted. Okay. It's just like, oh, well, berms are gone. You know? And it was like, okay, well, they're not going to come. We gave them berms and they're not going to come for anything else. And here they came. And it's like, you know, you would have thought it was the end of the world for the boa guys on the Friday. I mean, on Thursday. And then on Friday, they're looking at it like, oh, yeah, this is the greatest ever. Which... You don't get it, man. You're not getting it. You're not getting the whole concept of this thing. The whole concept is that they want them all. Because that's how they started. They started with wanting them all. But they figured, this is just my interpretation of it. I could be totally wrong. I could be conspiracy theory in the shit. But I think that they're fracturing us. And they fracture it. And we split. And we split. And we split. And they take one piece at a time. Because people don't believe that people should keep retics. And you're entitled to that belief. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't. But what have you done to educate people about that? What have you, and I'm not, I'm talking in general. I mean, where have you gone to talk about that? Have you made it public in a form? Have you gone to USR and tried to even try to put forth any kind of, you know, proper permutation or whatever the case would be? I mean, what have you done? And it seems to me like a people talk a lot of shit, but they don't do nothing. And that's the problem. They're going to wait for somebody else to take care of it. You know? And, I mean, we're still holding shit about USR that happened when what's his name was in charge? Andrew Wyatt. And I couldn't believe the freaking flag that USR got. I mean, I got to be honest. If I was Phil and I was this guy and I'm going down there and doing all this work not sleeping for two days and fighting for this. And I got that kind of flack. I don't know how he does it, man. More power to the guy. He really must love and believe, you know, that there's hope for the reptile community because to not be swayed by that bullshit is just, oh my God, man. You know? It's just insane. Like the people will complain about the fact that, you know, USR lost for us. And they didn't, you know, now the retics are gone. And I remember when berms went under, they freaking crucified USR. And now you got people saying, well, where's the money going and this and that? Hey, man, I'm all for transparency. You know, I get it. But who else is out there? I mean, right. And you know, that's funny is there was a hammer show a years ago. And somebody came up to me and he handed me a flier. And he goes, we want you to support our group and our group. He goes, well, we don't like USR. So we're starting our own. I'm like, well, you know, she owe me some credentials. What do you guys got? What are you guys doing? I mean, tell me this. Oh, no, no, we're just, you know, there's only four of us. And we don't like USR. So we're hoping you can donate. I'm like, get out of here. I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's stuff like that. We're getting, you can scream about transparency. And yeah, you can scream about how you don't like the way it's being run or built or whatever. But then it's like, well, I mean, unless you know a team of lawyers and guys, you know, how to work the way around Washington and things like that, what else are you going to do? So, you know, well, I love a yearly report on what USR is sending the money for. Yes. Do I need it? No. Because I'm going to send the money to them anyway, because I need somebody to be in our corner. And that's what we got. Yeah. If you really have a set about it, you can volunteer your topic for USR and ask them yourself. Well, yeah, maybe, maybe volunteer if you don't believe in the direction they're going, maybe volunteer some of your time and try to maybe influence the people to get. Or allow them to persuade you otherwise. You know, if you're, if you're that, I'm tired about it. Talk to them, reach out and see if you can be, you know, if all your worries can be put to ease. I mean, last year we did an auction for Carpetfest and we were. So here's, here's, here's my other problem is that everybody's up in arms now, but a year ago, nobody could give a shit. So much so that when we did the auction, people were pissed that USR was, you know, and I get it at the time, yeah, at the time there was other nonsense that was going on. And that was a fresh in our heads. Yeah. Yeah, I get it, but I don't know, man. It's, it's. And then I think of the bullshit that happened the week before. You know, and I just think like real Jesus, man, we can't even get the shit together in a tiny little niche community. Let alone never try to get the entire reptile community together. I don't know. I don't know. I don't want to sound like doing, I don't know. You don't want to go dooming gloom on this one, but obviously there are certain steps that will be taken now. Because the rule has been finalized. So it's done. Yeah. But the only way now to now that they're going to add more species, the fish and wildlife must resubmit. There's nothing stopping them from submitting a new list of animals that they want. I mean, they can decide to do that tomorrow if they so choose. They need to have some scientific backing, but as you can see, that scientific backing can be easily. Yeah, that's very, that's a very loose statement when you're talking about them. Very loose statement, I mean, they could have some dot, they could have some dude out in the middle of swamp in Alaska going yes. And that's it. It's good enough for the government. So the next step would be in order to remove the animals that are on the rule is, of course, to sue the federal government have the animals that were in the trick or rule repealed from the rule. Now, I know there's some people who are going out there and saying we want, excuse me, all reptiles removed. All reptiles removed from the Injurious Species Act. Let's not go too far now. You know, was it brown tree snakes? They're on there and they're invasive. Let's leave them where they are. So, you know, but not do that. You know, there's no, nobody here is a brown tree snake breeder. Might I just throw in there that that species when it's introduced by the government? Yes, he was. Oh, they did that. Of course they did. Didn't they drop, didn't they drop a plane full of like poison to mice on like, uh, one or something last year? Yeah, I mean, I'm just saying that the, the, the science, science that back so they did. So, you know, I mean, it's just the, it's the same guys that did the research with the brown trees. Snake in Guam. So basically now the, they go and they, they put out this report that says that, you know, the Ohio Valley is going to be 70 degrees. And, um, you know, construction snakes are going to be able to live in this territory. And here's a little fog. Here's a little food for thought though. If it's 70 degrees in Ohio in the winter time, I don't think there's going to be a Florida. I don't think there's going to be. What's going on? Lots of these coasts left. I think snakes are going to be the least of I could. We are. Yeah, no shit. They're talking, they were talking about having. I remember to, uh, when the, when the report came out, it's actually, if you look, if you Google it, when the report first came out, John Stewart and the daily show got a hold of it. And they had one of those like correspondent guys holding a remix standing in DC going, these things are everywhere. It's like, you know, and that's funny about it. You know, you met a snow and ice and cold that we got in BC or in even the East Coast this year and you're telling me these things going to be up here. Like living in a couple of years. Are you bad shit crazy? Just a side note. I mean, I could be totally wrong on this, but. Um, they were going to put that. But Boa's on there and Boa's live in Mexico, so they were invasive. Wouldn't they already be invasive? Like, what? What's the difference between Mexico and Texas? No, I mean, I guess they see the wall. Yeah. They can't pass the border. Yeah. It's really funny. Uh, one, one of the things they list focuses as a vases in Puerto Rico and, and anybody who's this Puerto Rico will tell you, um, our Puerto Rico pose that our natives can survive because of, you know, the main of habitat destruction and everything else. Right. And those boys, you know, are not going to have an effect on that ecosystem at all. But they, but, but they, they use that as a say, oh, look, they're invasive in Puerto Rico. I'm like, yeah, so is the green iguana. They actually are everywhere in Puerto Rico. You know, and it's just, they'll use whatever they can to prove, you know, oh, see, they live in Puerto Rico. Yeah, other Boa species live in Puerto Rico too. It's not, that doesn't seem all that, you know, absurd to me. Um, but saying that they're going to live in Ohio, like, you know, like, they're using, they're saying, oh, we got to protect places like, like Hawaii, you know, to protect places like Puerto Rico and, and then, you know, South Florida. But in order to do that, we have to do this nationwide thing. Is that, that's what they say. They literally said that, you know, that, that, in order to protect those pockets, we have to do it nationwide. So to blanket, so where there's no chance of anything ever going into those places, which is full crap anyway. What I don't understand is that you guys remember the Python hundreds episode we're showing. Cook like four berms and like kept them outside and there are a bunch of hay and stuff. And like, he just left them outside in cases under like he had gave him a bunch of hay and like, he gave him like, a few of them in the lamp. You can see if they could actually survive. And like, I think you have five of them. And I read this report a while ago, I read what he did a while ago, it was like five of them. And then by the end of the study, because he left them outside for like, like a month or two, four of them were dead. And the fifth one was still alive. And the thing is that the study ended or Sean ended it. And then the week later, the fifth one died because they all had horrible respiratory infections and stuff of that because they couldn't even though they had heat lamps and they went underneath the hay to hide from all the weather. They still ended up dying. So it's like, I think they can survive higher. So, I mean, the science is sort of bullshit, right? We all know that they know science bullshit in which when their question about the science, even at that hearing, when they're questioning about the science, they like to change the subject because they understand that what they produce that piece of paper they produce is total crap. It's total crap. So there's no defending it, which is why it's so important that we do take this to court because in court, facts matter. Right? Sure. Fact matter. Fact matter when a bunch of politicians are sitting around shooting the shit. Fact matter then. Fact matter in court, when you can prove with facts, your belief in, you can say all these are the numbers, these are the numbers we punched. You can see that nobody, except those two people who wrote that paper, approved this paper, you know, that's when, that's our best shot we had. You know, it's been our best shot that we've had from the get-go, from the start, is to take them to court. You know, we're not going to change your mind. We're not going to change your mind. We're not going to change your mind. We're not going to change the while-life mind. They haven't been better. Or they may or they don't even have a personal advantage. But there'd be a pressure every freaking day by people who are making million dollars every day in donations. There'd be a pressure by these people every day to make these things happen. Okay? Well, on one hand, I look at their side of it. They have a louder person on one side yelling at them constantly. And then you have somebody whispering to them on the other side, right? So who are they going to listen to? They're going to listen to them. They're going to let them who's throwing money around, who's constantly on the door. And I mean, you cannot, to me, I can't really blame them that much, you know? Yeah. So the way we do it is by saying, no, legally you can't do this because legally this is wrong. Yeah. That's the way you go about it. If I try to convince them to try to convince HSUS to stop or try to convince the general public that people should be able to keep 20 foot snakes or 15 or 12, is going to be nearly impossible. So maybe well to be on our side. In order to do that, we have to prove it in court. So that's going to be, that's going to be it. That's going to be the, you know, the time to do it. And it seems like, from what I can tell, you know, they told us, they, I mean, you know, they said what it is, our next step is a lawsuit. That's what it is. You know, we've written, we've written the letters, we called representatives, we've done that. You know, but what's really going to stick it to them is a lawsuit, whether or not this lawsuit goes or not. And so that's what we need to focus on. And that's, in order to focus on that, that requires money. In which, you know, rep saw folks, they don't like to give it up. Yeah, they don't. Which, you know, they want this snake or that snake, the exact animals, they're, they're trying to protect the ones they're buying. Here, again, that's what we talked about. We said it a long time ago. I think I've multiple times on this show. I think I've actually been laughed at when I said this in public. But when you sell an animal, I think my personal opinion is, and I've done this. Yeah, I mean, I haven't really sold that many animals, but I've done this every time, is that you take a percentage of whatever that is. You know, so you say, so what I do is I usually do 10%. So if you sell an animal for 200 bucks, you take 20 bucks, you donate it. It's almost like a tax. Yeah, I just don't see what you know, you make a thousand bucks, you put a hundred bucks in. Or maybe you put it 5%. Shit, maybe even put 2%. Hell, put $5 a month. You know what I mean? Join us arc, become a bronze member or silver member or gold member, do something. Damn it. I get it. Shits tight. Times are tight. You know, that kind of stuff. Yeah, right. Yeah, absolutely. We're all guilty of it. But I think like where we lose sight is, is that when it's not time, when these things are not hanging, it just seems like it's forgotten. Right. It's forgotten. I mean, even we're guilty of that. I told you, I totally forgot that this was even something hanging out there until I was told that it was tomorrow was the ruling. And I was expecting that as we got closer, I'd hear more press about it. But, you know, there was nothing nobody said anything. And the people I did talk to were like, oh yeah, I knew it was coming. I'm like, well, hell, did you, like, you know, did you get, like, were people texting, emailing you about this? No. Oh. So it was like mine. So it just kind of seemed like it almost seemed like a drop of that sky for me at least. Yeah, I mean, at that point, at that point, the comments have been in. They've been in for months, you know, in the comments. It was six months ago. It was six months ago when they asked everybody to put their final comments in before they made a ruling. And we've been waiting for six months and following the rulings. And it is what it is, you know. What I find interesting is that they didn't put boas on there. And I thought boas were going. I mean, I was surprised that that was removed. I heard rumors that they were told that some of the boa breeders or something that had gotten together was threatening to sue. But I don't know if that's true or not. I kind of figured that if the feds, one of them, they would have taken them anyway regardless of any threat. Exactly. I think I don't -- I'm trying to figure out how to explain this. But if they wanted boas, they had no reason not to take boas if they wanted them. You know what I mean? Who they had to please? They were going to piss themselves anyway, you know what I mean? I think that, you know, they gave us boas. They gave it to us. They didn't have to. One thing I do -- and that's one thing I do see. And there are reasons for doing that. There are a list of reasons. They say boas are too widespread in the country. I mean, there's too many boas here to really regulate that. You know, and there's a lot of pre-years of boas and everything. So, on one hand, you could say they kind of looked after the industry in a way because they understand about taking away boas. They were going to affect us much larger than by taking away those big four or whatever. That was a conscious decision on that part, right? It really was. But don't you think, though, that this is my thinking is that they kind of left boas there because it almost gives the boa people a sense of victory, a sense of relief to say, "Oh, we're okay." And then -- We're going to come back in anyway. Because it's sort of what you're going to -- No, no. I think they would have took what they -- again, I think we have to try to separate U.S. fish -- and wildlife from the people who are pushing them to do these things. I think they're two different entities. So, you're looking at -- H.S. U.S. wants to ban everything. And you look at fish and wildlife who are just trying to keep everybody happy, essentially, right? So, they're kind of stuck in this middle ground, right? So, that's why I think that if U.S. fish and wildlife had intent to destroy the reptile community, they would have took boas. I guess it's my point. So, with that, I give them a little bit of credit in that. They did it totally fold to H.S. U.S. but we all know they're not going to stop. Because remember, there's two groups on each side, all parentoring for this guy is a section, literally, right? So, we're all trying to get the U.S. fish and wildlife to take our side. So, and they're stuck in the middle. They really are. I think -- I really do think the both things -- they're going to push for it again. Let me play devil's advocate real quick. You're saying fish and wildlife sort of pandering to both groups, so to speak, and giving them a little bit and giving us a little bit. But wouldn't it come down to science? I mean, to me, when I think of fish and wildlife, I think of a group, and I could be totally wrong, but I think that they're protecting the environment and they have people that are educated about conservation and biology of animals and ecosystems and all that. So, to me, just being around people that breed and keep reptiles, most of the people understand how the animals work and the environment that they come from, you have to in order to breed them successfully in captivity. So, when they talk about things, I mean, I've heard, and I'm going to say, educated reptile people that are going to say that this could happen or that couldn't happen. And most people, I think, I think, most reptile people don't want the Everglades to be rowing. And they realize that there's a problem in South Florida in the Everglades with the Burmese python and, you know, that that is an issue. But you're, I mean, essentially, you're putting species on a list that doesn't even, you know, doesn't even, they're not even in the U.S. The two species of anaconda that are on there, besides the green anaconda, they're not even in the United States. So, I don't know, I just, I look at them as a more educated, like if they made a decision based on science, they said that, you know, to me, then their stance should be a little bit different if they're trying to protect the Everglades from the vase of species, they should be going after reptile, reptiles, mammals, birds, fish. To me, that's kind of like, no, they would stop big oil and they would stop. I mean, big sugar, big sugar, everything that else that goes down there, all the development, all the, you know, the filling in the wetlands down there, everything else that's happening in Florida, they would focus all the things. But, Eric, what was the last time a government decision was based on science? Well, the last time, look at the old companies, are they being regulated? I don't know, they're not being regulated. The government is bought, man, you know, the government is bought. So, we either can play by the new rules, or we can hope that it's not the case, but that's just the world we currently live in, is that we have to abandon to these special interests, which we are, and we have to use that to influence the government. Unfortunately, we have people using fake science to influence the government, right? Yeah. And so, we have to combat that. And again, the only way to do that is in court. That's the only way. That's it. Correct. Correct. But I guess-- But you'll find that in court, you'll find that in court, science always generally comes on top, right? Right. Right. But you don't feel that there's a strategy on the other side from H.S. to show us. Absolutely. And you don't think that this is part of that strategy. You know what I'm saying? Like, to me, it's almost too good to be true. It almost looks like, you know, "Oh, this will look like a win." But realizing that it just fractures our community all that much more. I got to be honest. Like, I think I said this before the thing. Like, man, if we don't stand up and join together and stop throwing each other under the bus, I don't even know if we-- I mean, I'm not going to be popular for saying this, but I don't know if we deserve to keep reptiles. I really don't. I mean, if you can't do any kind of investment to help fight for your fellow keepers to care, one day your animal's going to come on the chop of black. Well, boggles my mind is that for the amount of people, a ball python people, and you know what I mean? Maybe they are involved. Maybe they aren't. I don't want to throw it under the bus, but it just seems to me that just that group alone would be enough to raise the roof. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. It just seems like that the people that are into just the basic corn snakes or the-- and maybe you're right. Maybe they don't. Maybe they don't think it's right. But we keep changing people. Right. Right. Right. Some people. Some people think they're missing the same picture. Yes. Yes. I had a conversation with somebody, you know? You know, and it was, you know, this will be a good thing. Because, you know, then, you know, that's it. If some people think that if it stopped now, if that's it, if all they took were the big constrictors, if all they took, we would be better off. People would believe that. Well, you know what, we talked about this because I remember seeing somebody think of something which is like the most disgusting thing to say on that was the, this don't involve me. All I keep this ball fight on. It's like, all right, congrats your population. You keep, you know, the small guys, but still, those other guys are out there animals. Right. And we talked today because I'm hearing more and more that there are other proposed bans because apparently because it's gone so well with this superficial wildlife. They are moving to exclude other animals. They're basically using the LUCX to clean up all the species that are killing Florida. So what we're going to do next is there's a proposed list of lizards and monitors that are coming down the pike. Tigers. Tigers, water monitors, oil monitors, and crops. A bunch of different types of iguana. So, and they're going through all that, and they have more grounds to eliminate some of them if we're going. And they did not retake or on anacondas or anything else. Absolutely. So I don't think it would be that much of, it's like a chip shot to them at this point now. They know how to do it. They know where to go and they know what to do. And my thing is that I don't keep news or monitors or anything like that. But you know what, I know people who do. And it would be, and I would feel like a complete jackass. If I didn't try to help them keep their animals to do what they want to do. And I know what the same stipulations are. You can still feed them. You can still keep them. You just can't move with them. But, you know, again, if I got to watch my buddy who's been building his company and has these monitors that he raised up from Ashlings, now because he's going to move upstate New York because he's a better opportunity outside of reptile. Having to sell his entire collection. And then I didn't sign or didn't donate. I'd feel complete. Even if you can sell them. What happens if you can't sell them? Yeah. You can put them down. It's not like you're going to ship them. Well, you'd probably drop them off a reptile rescue or something like that. Can you imagine? Can you imagine the overload that they're going to take on? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, if you look at the ruling, Fisher Wildlife already said like, you know, hey, if you have to move, you know, don't worry. You're going to stick animal and get a euthanize. I mean, literally what they said. Yeah. You feel like that's an option. Like, you know, you could always kill it. Yeah. Thanks, guys. Okay. So I follow Florida Fish and Wildlife on Facebook. Yeah, I should. Well, they're actually little Python keepers. Because apparently every year they have this big thing where you can drop off any exotic animal you have had in a quite fast. Whether it be a mammal bird or reptile. And they said that with the amount of Burmese Python that they've been getting, they don't have enough people to take them so that they're trying to find people who can take them. The problem is you have to live in Florida. You have to have all the special permits and you have to want it. And they've pretty much cut themselves out at this point. But there's still a lot of people that go and capture these things in a while. They're still allowing people to, they're all still there. So it's like, well, you know, if you guys hadn't shut down all the ways to get them out of the state, we probably, there's probably some people who wouldn't might have a Burmese Python somewhere in this country. So I mean, even one of them is like education animals can't get them shipped. I think not in Florida. Yeah, I think that the, this is where I have a problem with Florida, Florida Fish and Wildlife, is that it doesn't solve the problem. What they're doing doesn't solve the issue. To me, you have to separate Florida, Florida State. Florida already has their measures in place. I know I understand. I get that, but my point is, is that by adding the animal to the Lacy Act, these animals, it doesn't stop you from keeping. Let's just say for sake of argument, let's just say that they could live in Texas, right? And let's just say that all of a sudden Burmese Python show up in Texas and they survive and they start keep staying, breeding there. They're not illegal. You just can't cross state lines with them. So my question is, is that how does that stop that? What, what it does is, I think, I think what they're, what they're trying to achieve, right? It's not necessarily that it's going to stop that. It's just going to stop the over, this is just going to stop the production of such snakes. I know. That's what it is. But, but hey, they come across, they say it's for, you know, it because it's an invasive species. So to me, I would be, if they came out and they just said, listen, we don't think you should own these big five snakes because they get these, this big and it's blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, but that's not the jurisdiction. That's a different argument. That's not the jurisdiction. They're, they, they don't have no saying of what is publicly safe or not. That's not, that's not their call. They're, they're only, they're called. The only thing they can, they can make a ruling on is something that affects the environment or affects the fisheries or whatever. That's the only thing they can rule on. So they can't, they, they literally cannot come out and say, we don't think anybody should keep anything over 10 foot. All right. We think it's dangerous because that's not, that's, they're not supposed to rule on that. That has nothing to do with them. You know? That's what that's spoken about. And if we're going to talk about what is dangerous to keep. That just emphasizes my point though. Exactly. Absolutely. Yeah. That, that, that they shouldn't really even be involved in this. If the case, I mean, if they're trying to protect the Everglades. And I guess that's my biggest thing with like, I guess what I'm trying to get at with the reptile community is that they can take from what I'm saying about this. Is that it's two different issues and it's getting confused into one. Right. The idea that there's too many retics or big snakes or whatever you want to say produced and bred in our industry, that's a discussion for another day. What's happening here is, is that these people in the Fish and Wildlife, HSUS, you know, they're HSUS and those animal rights people have a bigger voice at this moment because they're all unified on the fact that we shouldn't keep snake. They probably disagree with a lot of things, but they all agree that this is what should happen. That's a very loud voice. You know, and with this lawsuit, we're going and fighting the US government. I mean, that takes a tremendous amount of money and we can't even get that together. I really hope that we do and I think that we can. You know, and maybe this is the, the wake up call that's needed in the community. Maybe they'll stop arguing about. See, I've always felt that like you police, we police ourselves and like we hear about bad people all the time, but yet we continue to deal with them or we continue to promote them or we continue to put them on a pedestal because of whatever their name is or whatever. No, those days have to change. You know, that has to be a different time. You know, if you do something wrong, then you should be held accountable because you're affecting every one of us to do things right. You know, if you keep your animals poorly or, or if you, you know, do things that are underhanding and yeah, I mean, you should be held accountable. You know, but I think, I think there's too much politics that happens in the world of reptiles as well. Absolutely. It's, it's really about who you know. So, so let, all right. So let's say that somebody gets screwed over by this big breeder, right? He's, he's, he's essentially a nobody in, in the industry. But he got screwed over hard, right? But a breeder that everybody thinks is a standard dude, right? If you were to go on, let's say POI and try to say that, oh, this breeder screwed up, what would happen? Oh, you're lying. Oh, I, I had so many, I had so many interactions with him and everything was great. So you must be full of crap. You know, we, we automatically think depending on the guy's reputation, you know, the guy he's accusing or whether or not he's guilty or not. Right? That's just, that's just it. So it's hard to think somebody else people that have a reputation, even though they're doing something sleazy ass things. You guys, I think we all, we all could think of examples. Of course. But my thing is that the other thing is that, you know what I mean? But we have, but the thing is that the other people who have bad reputations and it's accepted as a bad reputation, everybody knows not to buy from that guy except everybody who's new or who aren't, or people of the general public who just wants like a pet or something like that, they all buy from that guy or, or everybody knows that this dude does this thing wrong, yet he's still here because people sell the woman, people do this to him and he's still involved, it's almost like we don't, we're not policing ourselves here, so we're allowing the bad guy to run and do that shit. Well, it goes, it goes back to day one from when I, when we've said on the show that I believe that you vote with your dollar. Of course. If somebody's trying to have a business and they do things shitty, you don't buy from them, they don't have a business anymore. You don't buy from them, but others are and so is it your obligation to warn others? That's, isn't that the question? I don't know. If we're asking, if we're asking, okay, if somebody's doing something bad, we should outstom that we should stand up, we should say, no, you can't be doing this. But we see Tom and Tom again of these guys who are doing bad, but aren't ousted. You know? Yeah. I think, I think, I think, I want to do business with that guy, but we don't say that. Well, here's the thing. I think that for somebody, okay, let's say we've, I'm trying to think of an example of, okay, so say somebody chips you a snake. You get the snake and you heard that this person was a decent snake, a decent guy or whatever, and he has, you know, he's a popular guy in the industry, so you figured, oh, yeah, I'm going to get it from him. And let's say that the, the animal you got, you know, comes in and, you know, two weeks from then it dies or something like that. Is it necessarily the, the, the person that breaded, I mean, you got to remember, we're dealing with live animals, so it's quite stressful to ship. So like, if something like that happens, what I'm saying, it's something like that happens to go directly to the B.O.I. and crucify. No, I'm not saying that. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's not it. What if it's something that continually happens, for instance, if every time he sends something out, they come in and they look dehydrated, they're half dead, they got mites all over it. And you're like, you know, what the hell's going on with it? You know, there's no heat tape in the bar or heat pack in the box, you know, they shipped it in some shitty kind of thing, you go to their table, everything looks half dead. You know, it's, they're always cutting undermine and breeders with prices and all that kind of stuff. I mean, to me, I don't know, that would be like, if it's a continual thing, then, then that's where I would say, yes, that, that person should be outed. I'm not even, I'm not even talking about stuff like that, or I'm talking about straight up like, you got sent a snake, it dies a week later, you call the guy, the guy literally threatens to come to the house and kill you type of situation, which I've heard happened in this industry, yet the person is still not getting outed. This is the type I'm, I'm not talking about necessarily, well, yeah, these guys, I'm talking about like, little, little dirt bags that are in this industry that aren't outed is the way I'm talking about, because they're with me, that's, that's what I'm referring to. Well, I mean, obviously, if you haven't done this experience and you're not handled properly, that is on fault of the, the business owner, but on the other hand, it can be on the fault of person who's purchasing, because I mean, there was that one time, and it was one of my favorite BOI things, where somebody got a crest of Gecko from Antecop and then had a small underbite, and they flipped out, and they said they're going to BOI because they wanted a free one, and you think, that's not how that works, if you send me that one back, and I'll send you another one, or, you know, I can tell you right now that the underbite is going to go away as it gets older, but they, they wanted a brand new spanking free Gecko, and he's like, that's, no, that's, no, that's not how it goes. So, obviously, there was somebody who would not accept what the breeder was handing down, and I've had people who want to purchase animals, who want me to ship for them to be received in, like, negative two weather, and I'm like, no, that, that, I'm not going to do that, it's setting me up for something bad to have. So, obviously, there's some give and take on both sides, the customer and the business, but if there's a bad dealing with a customer, it is up to the business to either attempt to make it right. So, if you put that attempt forward, and then they go to the BOI, I, I don't see that being an issue. I mean, I think that, that's something that, too, you're going to fight about, but, or that, that you're not going to suffer for that one, at least your reputation isn't. But if somebody has an issue, and they call you, and you're like, no, no, no, and if you call me again, I'm going to kill you, you're not a good business person. Right. So, basically, you have a poor thing, if you have a, if you're a customer and something bad happens and you feel as if they're not even trying, of course, because the board of inquiry. But if they, I'm just saying that if they have tried, be ready for that to come back round on you. I'll use a, I'll use an example. Remember the guy, I can't remember his name, but remember Poopsie, or whatever the heck his name was? Zach, this might be before you came over to MP, but, oh, and you'll probably remember him. Yes, you remember him? I remember him. I, I, wait a minute. I remember him. Okay. Have you? So, here's a perfect example of somebody that just utterly ruins their reputation time and time again. So much so that he would never, ever, ever be able to sell carpet bithons to anybody, but brand newbies. Yup. But I believe that that guy did so much bullshit that he should be somebody that's held accountable for his actions. Maybe he was in a bad spot in his life or whatever, but he screwed over a lot of people, man. Yeah. And that's just not cool. You know, I don't, I don't, I don't like to comment on, I always believe that there's two sides to a story. Yeah. When I hear people's story, you know, obviously they're very passionate at the moment because whether they're, they're animals and what they expected it to be or it's, it's sick or something, you know, all this stuff, obviously they're going to think it's one way and the breeder is going to think it's another way, you know? I don't, I don't know. So for me to comment on situations that, you know, people have told me that have happened. That's why I don't, I don't like to necessarily, you know, name names, but I've heard stories and I just don't understand why like, and it's not my personal dealing, but I've heard, you know, big name breeders. And, and there's nothing with carpet pythons or anything, but I've heard like, you think that these guys are like rock stars in the, in the reptile world and you hear these situations and you're like, how is this guy still in business? I just don't get it, you know? Some people is a miracle because you're about this stuff and I mean, it's, I would be devastated if I had one B.O.I. that was like, he sold me an animal that went to shit and, you know, was still when it first arrived and didn't try to deal with it, I mean, it's, it's, I mean, obviously sickness is happening, obviously things do go wrong, but like I said, just that attempt, that small attempt that you could do as a business, totally put you in clear for that kind of stuff, but if you give them a little bit, I mean, it's still weird that some people just don't care. Yeah, I guess, I don't know. Yeah, I know, I'm just gonna say the same thing. I think, I just think that I guess that we should be better at policing ourselves, I guess, is my whole point. Absolutely. I feel like we're always playing catch-up, I feel like we're always playing catch-up when it comes to this type of stuff, we should, we should have, I mean, and I'm not even talking about catch-up like we're playing catch-up, but yeah, I mean, we should have been 10 years ahead of this, you know, I don't know, I don't, I guess maybe we didn't have the force, of course I had to see, you know, what was gonna happen with this whole large restricted thing, but that, that permeating system and all that, I grew with the area, all that type of stuff should have been in place years ago, yeah, years ago. And maybe if it was, and we had a good track record, and we could say, oh, this was, oh, yeah, that snake that got loose, that killed so-and-so and whatever, oh, that snake was not registered and was bought illegally, you know, if we had, so that's not on us, you know, like you say, if we had, we've had a way to defend ourselves, if we had our own measures in place, then we can have something we can fall back on and say, like, listen, this is the way we, we've been doing this for years, and this is the way it's been working for us and everything else, but we haven't done that, and the talk of that, and the talk of that freaks people out, even bringing up the fact that also permeating system gets people upset, gets people saying, oh, you're trying to throw everybody in the bus, oh, you're trying to do this, oh, you're trying to do that, you know, oh, you're mostly working for a humane society, like, this is the stuff that happens, but this is, we need to make that progress, we really do, I know that, from what I remember, I'm not going to speak, like, on their behalf, but I know you would start to put out the best practices when it comes to keeping our stress sugars, they put out the best practices, this is regulations that we kind of think that would be okay, you know, oh, I'll forget it, I'll remember them getting heat about that, but instead, we pretend that we're going to be living in the Wild West, you know, in America, the free, and all that, and we're going to be able to have our liberty forever, and that the world is changing, whether or not it's a good thing or a bad thing, I guess, is up to argument, but this is the world we live in, and we can either play by the rules or pretend the rules don't exist, and continue to be outplayed, which is what is happening, we're being outplayed, they're always ahead of us, they're always steps ahead of us, and we're playing catch up. Yeah, it seems like we need to be more, that's sort of my whole point is that we sort of need to be more unified, we can disagree about, would you, I don't know, I'm going to make a, maybe a similarity with the gun lobby, right, so you have people that keep, you know, maybe a handgun for protection in their house, and then you have other people that, you know, they want their semi-automatic K47 military style, you know, you know, yeah, rocket launcher, whatever, but, and those people may not agree, I mean, the guy, the person that has the handgun in their house for protection, may not agree that the person should be able to keep, you know, a rocket launcher, you know, however, the gun lobby comes across as a unified front, as a, you know, you can not take our right away to own guns, you know, I think that's where we have to gear more towards, you know, we can have our own little debates and what not within the community, or maybe regulate ourselves, I don't know, I'm actually going to have to research that to find out exactly what they do, because to me that would be a good thing to sort of mirror off of, because it seems like no matter what they do or no matter what happens, they can't pass any kind of legislation taken away, you know what I mean? They seem like they're a pretty tough group. Except at the state and county level, yeah, yeah, the thing is that what I have is that anybody can get, if we do a permit system, or say we had a permit system in place, anybody can get a permit and it'd be scummy, because yes, you can have a permit to vote, but look at it at the, we're in Pennsylvania and we're popular capital of the goddamn world, especially out by me, Lancaster and Reading. So, and these puppy mills, which are just like barns full of cages full of dogs, breeding puppies, they're all registered with the state has breeding facilities, and it's that they're not inspected before you realize that there are horrible situations, they have their permits provoked and things like that, but that's not going to stop the scumbags, a permit system is not going to stop the scumbags is what I'm saying, you're still going to have those idiots that will hopefully eventually be discovered and shut down, but, you know, they're still going to be there. Yeah, right. In the idiot. Yeah, right. A lot of form. Right. Yeah, and they tried to pair one thing that you had more than three breeding females in the state. You had to be inspected, and luckily that was shut down because, and the only reason that one held them being, of course, I don't know if this true enough, in the state didn't have the manpower to regulate it, so we shut it down, so it's not, we, not, it's not that it wasn't gone past, is that the people who would have been put forward to regulate it said you cannot do this on the budget you have set for us, and the state, of course, being where it is, said, "Oh, then we're not going to do it," and stopped it. Right. They, yeah. I mean, we all see those H.S. U.S. videos of the puppy males, and all that, and then in the same breath, they tell, they tell cities that they should pass spay and neuter, mandatory spay and neuter. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, it's like, you know, yeah, they're attacking the animal industry as a whole, right, to share that the animal industry as a whole doesn't fight for other people. They don't all come together, and yeah, yeah, yeah, and all that. Which was the hope with PJAC, right, the hope with PJAC is that PJAC was, it would have been the connection to that world, you know, to the people who breed dogs in their backyard. Yeah. That's our thing, and that was going to be our way to kind of get them on our side as well, and fight as a unified front now, what happened, what has happened, what happened, Philly. It's been a turn to do-do-do, yeah. So, but we don't know what has happened with that situation, with the whole PJAC new president being from ASPCA who has gone record saying that he doesn't believe people should keep reptiles now, whether his mind has changed or not, we haven't really found out. Now, what I understand is- It seems to me that people have been cutting that, I don't know if it's true, but yours like seems to be kind of ties with PJAC right now. Well, when you say that, no one should have reptiles, you're going to lose the reptile basis. You think? You think? That's like, it's like the competition going out there being like, "I don't believe we could have guns. You've just lost the entire NRA." I mean, like, don't, that there are certain things you really can't say, and of course, if PJAC believes that, do we really want to be with him? And I know it would be nice for all of us to have a unified front, but if we're going to have a unified front, we need people who obviously believe that, you know, everything that we should be able to keep the animals we want to keep. You can't just nitpick, and you can't just sit here and say that, well, we're all together on the unified front, but we actually really don't like the reptile, guys, like, "Well, fuck you," and sleep, so then it's no longer unified. I mean, if you're going to work together, man, we need to get unified front. Well, yeah, but we need to be unified front just on the reptile world first, man. Forget about moving into other pets. Yeah. I wish we needed a unified front and carbon fiber, but let's start there, how about? Yeah. Oh, my gosh, man. Can we have a unified front in morality? That'd be great. No, not at all. I mean, I never really like Eric, so that's the first thing you don't have a unified front on the radio, so... Yeah, I really believe in different opinions and different ways to approach things, and I think that's the way that you progress and move forward. However, I do have a problem when you can't come. It's almost like what you see in government just today, just in general. I mean, you have an extremist on one side and an extremist on the other, and you can't get anything accomplished because there's no give or take. You know what I mean? There's no... Right, in the middle ground, people are ignored. Yeah. And most of the people in the United States probably are somewhere in the middle. You know what I'm saying? You have very few people that are on the extremes, but that's all you hear about is the extremes. You know, and I guess it's kind of similar. I mean, you look at us, we think that we should be able to keep these animals, and then you look at people that are in HSUS, they believe that we shouldn't. I mean, it's pretty cut and dry, you know? And we're never going to agree on either side, you know? I mean, we're never going to say, "Oh, yeah, well, they're right." I think that... I think, and this is just maybe I'm a little biased to this, but I think that our position would be is that we don't like to see animals in any kind of bed captive environment, or cared for improperly, or, you know, in deplorable conditions, and I mean, I think that when anybody in the reptile industry is really found to have that type of thing, I think they're pretty much nailed to the cross, and they're pretty much done, it's a done deal. You know, you have to be pretty extreme, like, you know, the police show up at your house and decide that you have, you know, I don't know, 800 snakes or something like that, and they're all dead in cages, and there's dead rats all around it, you know what I mean? Like those kind of conditions, where like, you're an asshole, and you'll never be back in this community again. And then there's some people who get back into it after all that... Yeah, that's the crazy part, isn't it? Yeah, and that's just insane. And that's just hilarious. Well, what the hell are you back into doing here? Oh, I'll end up by it and be like, oh, okay. Oh, it's forgiven, it's like, you know, and here's my thing, I'm an animal person first and foremost. I can't stand to see an animal suffer, can't see the animal to be put through pain, that is unnecessary. I even can't stand to watch how animals are slaughtered if it's not done quickly, mainly in my opinion. I still have cheeseburgers, don't get me wrong, but, you know, and I will still eat them. But it's most like, from, you've got to respect it and you've got to take care of it, you know, if one of my animals is laid low, it affects me, it affects me. I mean, there have been moments where, you know, I've been, like, so pissed off that I didn't even want to come on this show because an animal was sick or died on me at some point somewhere. And of course, there are people who tell you that this is something that happens when you're dealing with live animals that I totally understand it. But if a death of an animal doesn't hit you somewhere, what the hell is wrong with you? I mean, it's like, yes, I understand there are certain levels in, say, a hatchling that you popped out of the egg, died three days later, ah, you're going to be disappointed, you're going to be like, ah, well, shit, you're not going to be the same amount as depressed is the thing you raised from a baby all the way up to adulthood and is bred for you for self of years, passes on you, or the family dog dies on you. I mean, obviously, there's different levels of caring for certain animals, but it should still affect you in some way. And to have these people who are like, yeah, I had a whole facility, 1500 animals left to die. Can I buy that ball python from you and someone says, yes. Yeah, the, ah, yeah, I don't know, I was going to, I forgot to inject this in here is that USR is actually working on coming up with, with, ah, trying to get an injunction for the retics and anacondas because they were in the middle of the lawsuit with the berm and that from rocks in the yellow anaconda. And they just went and added this to it. So it may be possible that they're going to, ah, extend, yeah, I don't know if it'll happen or it won't, but we'll extend, um, till they, till that law takes effect. So well, I mean, if they do an injunction, it'll stop, it'll stop the addition of the retics temporarily, but it may be, until it may just be an injunction until they can amend their original lawsuit to include the addition to these animals. Maybe no, I think what I think what they're trying to do is they're trying to say that they've already, the, the law, the, the lawsuit is in the courts and they went and added these animals to the, um, so they're going to try to do it. So they're going to try to, yeah, they're going to try to, I guess, pause it momentarily. Right. Well, we'll see how that goes. Hopefully. Until they actually go to court. Yeah. What is, what is good, what, what is good is that this happened, um, and this only gives us our chance to not only sue for berms, but also sue now, they're going to be able to amend their, their lawsuit and now they're going to be able to put it, put retics and everything else in there. So rather than just suing for the berms and the other, um, African rocks yellow, now they're going to be able to bring in the retics, which is going to help their calls, which is going to help our calls even more because it's going to say, oh, look, look at how much money retics brought in. You guys took this money away from us, this is illegal, and you did it with phony science and this is how we can prove it. And so, so this actually has helped us in that way, um, it's definitely going to help the lawsuit in that way because now we're going to be able to amend it before it's lawsuit goes through. Now whether or not the, uh, we're going to be able to put off it happening. I don't know. That's some law, some court, some judge out there is going to make that decision. Um, but, you know, I, I give it, oh, I know it's helpful in all three ticks. If I had a bunch of retics, you know, I know a lot of people, you see it already. You've seen that, you've seen that market crash like crazy already. And it's only been, it's only been a weekend, right? Um, what was the, what was the, what was the three ticks today, the before? Pied retics? I don't know how much pied retics were on, I know right now they're three grand. I've, I've seen some for sale right now for three grand. That's crazy. That's almost affordable. You know, like, I almost get one. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. So like, that is such a amazing, you know, and I wish that these people would just wait, you know, like, can we wait to see this? Don't lose hope. You know, hang on. Yeah. But see, this is maybe, maybe the, maybe that's a silver lining, huh? Maybe maybe the silver lining there is the people who really gave a damn about the animals who were not just in it because three ticks were hot right now are the ones that are going to stay with it. Yeah. Well, my thing is that, say you got the, say you got all the retics and say, you know, maybe you don't breed as much as you were going through this season, but you hold tight and then loss you pushes through with the U.S. arc, it gets repealed. And now all of a sudden you still handle your animals because some of my biggest regrets is sometimes I sell an animal and then you never, you never get that animal back. You can get ones like it, but you never get that one back. So if you're a retic breeder, keeper, whatever, and you want to hold on to the retics, do it as long as you possibly can, because for all you know, this could be altered and changed in the next, I'm going to be generous and say year, two years, I don't know, just however long it's going to take to come back and you don't want to be back to square one. So, you know, and I understand that there are some people who absolutely can't keep them or have to move and unfortunately going to have to give them up. But if you're in a position to keep them, and like I said, maybe even not breed them until you're prepared to until this thing gets lifted. Right. Right. But here, I guess, I guess there, there, some of you is trying to sell as many of the reticants as possible and now I guess, I guess there, their defense that is, you know, if this injunction doesn't come through, now I got 30 days and what I'm going to do with these 100 babies sitting in my tubs, I'm not going to be able to afford a peanut oil because I'm not going to be able to make any money, I'm not going to be able to sell any, make it locally. And depending on when you are, I mean, it's really a screw, I understand it's really screwing people. It's really screwing people and it's going to destroy that market, absolutely it's going to. And the shitty part is that the time of year that we're in, how many people do you think already through males with females? Oh, can you, listen, can you imagine, I saw posts today of people of their retics dropping eggs today. Like, can you imagine that feeling that your recent just dropped 40 eggs and you got to make that decision. What do you do with those eggs? Do you? Do you? Do you not? And what if this is a project that you've been working on, like you raised through two? Oh my God. Some to fruition moment, I think if they outlawed IJ, this would be the year I would produce. I'd be like, son of a s**t himself. Right. Can you imagine? I can't even imagine what those guys are going through. I really can't. I know that some people are going to put whole clutches and freezers. You know, yeah, I'm sure that people are there, there are going to be a freeze in a lot of clutches and freezers and that is terrible, you know, that's terrible. And to be, especially to be in that situation and my heart goes out to those guys, it really does because that's absolutely, you know, it literally has taken people's dreams away. Heartless. I mean, Jesus. If you can't, if you can't relate to that as a, as a, as a reptile keeper. You can't get the hell out, you know, regardless of whether or not you think that they should again, I keep saying it's over and over again, you think that they should be, you know, in the hands of people or not, you know, to, to put that work behind, you know, that kind of long term project and, you know, retics aren't the easiest to breed. One I hear that can be pretty tricky and the eggs can be pretty tricky. And, you know, these guys that I really believe that they're, there are people in the retic world that are, that are just as passionate about retics as I am about carpet pythons or somebody else's about, you know, whatever they keep. I think that guy, what was his name? Matt. Oh, shoot. Hold on. I'm going to pull it up real quick. In the polar? I figured you'd always left me. No, Matt Edmonds, the guy that went down there, I think one of the other disappointing things to me was about this, this whole band thing that they had the, they had the meeting in Florida and only five people showed up to this thing, you know, I mean, that's kind of disappointing. I get it. People at work and they can't really change their, their thing when I don't know, man. Because they were out long, you know, I, I don't know. I mean, also having a giant, having a giant presence there, what, like, they had already come to that. I don't know. Yeah. I know. But I just think of like, you're educated, like, okay, how many times have you ran into people? I mean, just look at, just look at what this guy writes on his blog, Wayne Parcel, what's it, what's it, Parcel, whatever he writes on his blog, it's just like, you know, I was going to go through this and read this, but it's just like kind of nonsense. And this is the kind of stuff that we're, we're fighting against and you're average person that doesn't know anything about snakes. Yeah. You know, it's like, let me try to see if I can find anything in here that just sticks out to me. There's just nuts. Well, the one thing people that, that guy, everybody, you know, everybody really says the fact that he says there, there is no right to keep snakes. And we could say that that's a terrible thing to say, but he's right. He's right. There is no, no one in the constitution is saying that we have the right to keep snakes. It's a privilege that we have and we don't treat it as such. It would be my argument is that we, a lot of, you know, a lot of people out there don't treat it as such. They don't treat it as a privilege, you know, and that's the one that he did say that I'll say, ooh, he's kind of, he has here, all right, because it's like, we were talking about the gun lobby before. If he doesn't defend guns, it doesn't, our constitution, that we have the right to have them. So it's very easy to defend that, you know, it's very easy to defend that. You can say, it says, our forefather says that we should have the right to bear arms to protect ourselves against, to protect ourselves, not only some other people but against the government, right? That was the intention. Okay. That's the easy thing to defend, because it's in the Danic Constitution, it's a lot harder to defend something that we are allowed to do, but that we don't have a right to do. And so we, that be as such, I, it kind of like, you know, they're all, we have the right to do this and, you know, this is all right and it's taken our right to right and, and I understand that certainly if we're, a part of me is like, guys, it's not, it's not our right and we're not, we can't just say, we can't just, we can't just say, oh, I'm, I'm allowed to have, I can keep these things, because that's the way it is, and it's not. And we, we have to see it as such and we have to be much more careful about things to do because it's not a right. We do not have the right to keep them. Well, wouldn't, wouldn't, wouldn't the argument be though that, that I think, I think where people are coming from with that is, is that basically what I do inside my house is my business. It's my own business. And, and that I would agree. Yeah, and that's, and that's, and that's, and that's, and that's what I would agree. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's where the reptile world comes across is no, it's not in the Constitution. However, who is this guy to tell me what I can and can't do inside my own house? You know, basically fuck off. So. Right. Right. When you tell fish, well, it's a fuck off a 10, you know, you know, no, this is official wildlife. This is this, it's just us, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're the, you're the person that is wings. So I, the issue comes is that, you know, the first, you're dealing with public perception, number one, which, you know, if we were all breeding guinea pigs, we could probably have a better case. Right. If you had a rabbit. Right. Exactly. We're all breeding bunnies. Oh, forget it. If you breed cats. Oh, you're, you're good to go. I'm not. You're both. I told you. I'm selling everything and getting kittens. Unfortunately, I'm getting tear with that. So. Nobody loves what we cat apparently. Yeah. Anyway. So you're fighting against that and you're also fighting against, you know, the, the, the basic thing of like, this isn't, there is no reason to do this. And other than that, we find personal enjoyment in it. So of course, you know, we find it to be a thing that we can't not do and that we have to protect and that we love, but other people see it as like, we're just weirdos with a bunch of snakes, which we can offer, but that's fine. But the, the thing is that there's no real reason. There's no great service to the nation, to the state, to our towns. That we're doing here. We're not, we're not breathing the cure for something or other. We're not producing animals that are going to cause the mass amount of people here. A great amount of joy. Most people in the country hate these things. So it does not really seem to be one of those things that like people would be like, Oh, yeah, well, of course you have to protect it. Unless you're involved. Yeah. But here, here would be my argument for that. We talk about invasive species. I hear people bring up cats all the time. I hear people bring up, you know, that's like always their first go to, and I get it, right? But I think they're forgetting about probably the most invasive species on the planet, which would be us. And if you're really, I mean, if you're really concerned about wildlife, should it be concerned about environments? And here's the problem is that I think what the funny thing is, is that we are not, we breed snakes in captivity, I think for the most part to sort of, I think, I think universally this would probably be the truth to sort of not really take away from the population, the wild population. Right. I mean, would you agree with that? I mean, we wouldn't, wouldn't we much rather breed in captivity to sort of, I think the only one that I can think of as far as pythons go would probably be ball pythons, right? I mean, they still import those things where thinking they're going to get the next newest morph. Right. I can see both sides of that fence, but god damn man, I mean, I don't know, again, police in ourselves, I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't think, I don't think that I'm, I'm any, I don't think I have the right to come along and tell somebody that they can't import a box of ball pythons from Africa when somebody in the Morellia community is important green trees from Indonesia. And, you know, I mean, so it's kind of like very hypocritical and I think all three of us have wild call animals in their house. Maybe, I think we do, yes, yes, yes, so I got to say that you shouldn't do that. That's totally hypocritical, exactly, exactly. Right. So for me to sit here and say that that shouldn't happen, however, I think that, I think that the difference between what, what maybe what we're doing, and I'm not trying to, to defend what we're doing and throw somebody else under the bus, but I mean, when you look at like, okay, so you look at my wild called animals and in my room, I have helmet hair scrub pythons. Well, they don't exist in captivity. I would much rather have captive born and bred ones, you know what I mean. And I think Owen for the scrubs that you have is the same way. And Zach, probably your wild called animals is probably along the lines that don't you have IJs that are there, you know, trying to make a new bloodline of an animal, you know. And to me, I don't know, to me, I guess that's maybe a legitimate thing. I mean, I don't know. Is there a point where maybe we should look at that? I mean, that's, that's one of those things like again, that is a discussion worth having, you know, to me, that's a discussion that, that the reptile community as a whole should have and, and the pros and cons of what that means. I mean, are we really bringing it? Are we really bringing in those? I don't even know if it's really the same as it used to be. It might not be. I really don't know. I can't really say one way or the other. I just go by what I hear. But I think, you know, I think that we are in our own way are trying to sort of, I don't know about you guys, but I'll speak for myself. Like, when I first got interested in reptiles, it was because I was interested in dinosaurs and when I got interested in, in reptiles, it got me interested in the environment and the world and wanting to, you know, go see what the Everglades look like and go see these, these, you know, look, we talk about it all the time, want to go to Australia and see, see where these animals come from. And, you know, man, it would be a dream to go to Papua New Guinea and, you know, and see conjures and IJs in the wild and, you know, all these things that we, if, if we were just about keeping an animal in a box, we wouldn't want to do those things, you know, but it, we do care about the environment and maybe at the end of the day, if you, if you go and educate people about snakes, maybe they will protect the environment a little bit more. You know what I'm saying? Like maybe they will recycle or maybe they will, you know, whatever they can do to impact that environment to me, I don't know, maybe they will get out there and set, you know, vote against, you know, taking land when it's for big business or, you know, if Walmart's showing up to take away a bald eagles, you know, nesting cider, you know what I'm saying? I just think that, that, that, that motivates people and gives them something that, that excites them. At least that's what it did for me. And I think that, you know, I think we have to do a better job at educating those normal everyday people. This is frustrating because what they say is bullshit and we all know it and you don't want to sit there and get into the debate and it's like, oh my God, I have to take all this time to talk to this person. But I'm reading this guy's blog and he says simply on there that the trade and large constricting snakes is fraught with risk. The trade is inhumane with high death rate of snakes who are captured in the wild and often transported for thousands of miles as with so many other points of trade and wildlife. There's enormous mortality rate during capture holding transport where animals typically don't get fed or watered or denied medical care. In one instance in 2013, authorities discovered 850 snakes in a garage in a New York area animal, animal control officer who was selling snakes over the internet. You know, but here's my thing, they're outraged, here's my other thing, these guys, and this should just show you how this should just be a blaring spotlight on what their real agenda is. They're talking about the trade is inhumane with high death rates for snakes who are captured in the wild and transported thousands of miles. Where the figure, these people, for the rattlesnake roundups, where are they? That's humane, they're being skinned alive. The trade in wildlife, there's enormous mortality rate during capture. As far as I know, everybody that's involved in that is a hundred percent, right? They don't get fed or watered or denied any medical care, last time I saw pictures of that, they throw them in a box, they freaking gas them with gasoline, they come out of it. So, these guys could give two shits less about, because I can't find anything on their website that has anything to do with rattlesnake ground up, not one thing, but I see this. So, if you're listening, just bombarded with rattlesnake ground up stuff, because we're going to talk about humane, and how we're going to be humane to the animals, why the hell is that still happening? And look at this, listen to this. If you hide behind humane treatment of animals, then you better be prepared to show me that you're going to be completely humane to every single goddamn animal on this planet. Uh-oh, like I'm on fire it up. Well, that's great to take any sense if you're going to stay inhumane, not anywhere near medical treatment of animals. If you're going to tell me you're going to do this, then how the hell do we still have the issues that we have with every other animal industry in this country? You have the rattlesnake ground up for animals in the millions are put to death every freaking year for no other reason than entertainment. You have issues with sick cows being dragged by goddamn bulldozers to a slaughterhouse. So, tell me you're going to be humane, then show me you're going to do it. And then I will try- I know, but about being humane about the snakes. But Owen, the thing about, the thing that I see is different from what you just said is the fact that you do see them doing stories about, you know, cattle and farming and what not. And you saw them about it go under cover. Well, they, yeah, but they don't say nothing about rattlesnake ground up. Why? Nothing. You can't tell me that the importation of animals from the wild here, you know, of course, they're not really taking care of when they're collected because those guys don't give a damn, they're just trying to make a buck. So, you know, and then they're here, and then you cannot tell me that because an animal was wild caught and it's out being well cared for, it is in the same breath as an animal, as a snake that is taken for the rattlesnake ground up, like you can't, how can you not talk about that? You see it out in all the round ups and all that crap, then you can start bringing this stuff up to me. But you can't sit here and visit that thing and you can practice yet, in the other hand, you've got this going on, that you refuse to even acknowledge it. Where the hell are all these animal rights activists when that's going on? I would love to sit down there and see how many tenths of free, you know, AFPCA, HSUS are at the rattlesnake, rather, that I haven't heard about a single goddamn one. Right. I know, and this would be the most telling, I'm going to read the last paragraph, which I posted over on the Facebook page, I took a quote from it that I saw on the internet. But this will just give you an idea of what it's about. It is much more humane and fiscally responsible to deal with the problems of invasive species through prevention, rather than to contain the animals once they become established. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and that's true for snakes too. The snake lobby, yes, there is one, if you can believe that, has fought these anticipated restrictions on the trade and dangerous snakes for years. They've hired lobbyists and commissions reports that grossly inflate the proposed economic losses that the pendant industry would sustain if restrictions of the trade were imposed. Even though these restrictions cover just a handful of the most problematic species and snakes traders have hundreds of other reptiles to sell. The federal government should have seen through this smokescreen a long time ago, this is not a trade worth preserving. I repeat that, this is not a trade worth preserving. It didn't say this is not a trade for big constrictors worth preserving. This is not a trade. So that includes everything from a leopard gecko to a reticulated python. It is an economic and ecological loser for our country. And this is the part of the answer to what you're telling me. What we're doing is we're fighting between ourselves when we should be educating people about what we do. I mean really, that's what it comes down to. And that's why I say that we fracture bit by bit by bit by bit when we can be, I think that the reptile community can be the most passionate group of people as far as hobbies goes that I've ever been with. But I listened to Bartchek talking about, I don't remember what Joey was on but he was talking about this when he was going on and he said he had people that were about to drop $10,000, they were going to go donate it to USARC and they were getting into the hobby and they bought a bunch of stuff from them. And they got into the hobby and they were like, I don't want to deal with this man. This is the worst group of people that I've ever dealt with. And I'm going to keep these as pets and I don't want nothing to do with the hobby. It's sad man, it's sad. And I don't know what what sector that was or what group that is, but when I hear things like that, it's just depressing, shit, we can't even get this shit together for ourselves. And you got guys out there that are super passionate like this guy, that guy that went down there and here he is doing something, I'm going to throw his name out there again. Matt Edmonds, and if you didn't see what he did, he, this guy is super passionate about Retix, man. He's super jazzed. He's been on, he was just on Nick Mountain Show with Phil Goss talking about this. And he was on the TV, there was a news report and he did these videos while he was down there. And he was asking what's his name, Ash, what's the guy's name? Well, it doesn't matter, anyway, he was asking the guy questions and he didn't have answers to. So, I mean, I don't know, if you're going to go put this kind of ban in place and you're going to do this kind of thing, you got to be ready to answer some freaking questions. You know, I mean, you're going to have people that disagree, at least have an answer to what the guy's asking it. And then he was saying something about, if you caught one of the videos, he was saying that Al in this study, it said that snakes would move up into Texas, I can't remember exactly where, but he said that that wasn't in that report. And it just blatant lies, like it's just straight out lies that this guy is saying. And, you know, I don't know, that's why I went the whole fish and wildlife thing. Like to me, they just look incompetent. I really do. If that press conference, when he was answering questions, you know what I mean, if you're going to do this based off of the invasive species thing or whatever, then at least have the balls to say what it don't don't don't don't pull politician on people and dance around it. You know, I mean, maybe that's the regular way to do things nowadays, but I don't know, this seems like a coward way to handle shit. You know, if you're going to say something, then freaking stand behind it and say what it is. We might not like to hear it, but at least the guy came there, at least give him a say. And then he just basically shot him down when they didn't want to hear anything more he had to say, you know. So I don't know, I don't know, but I don't know, I keep saying I don't know, so a lot of people are saying that right now. I think I think that this could be a good thing in that I think that this could make people really kind of wake up. And I think that this is something that we always have to be on the defense board. I think Zach, you said earlier in the show that, you know, it's kind of like we're always behind whenever ahead, you know, it's always like we're playing catch up because we sort of put this stuff on the back burner, you know, and I don't know, I don't think that's the route that we can go. So hopefully we learn from it and we can move forward and progress from this and become more unified and join together and work to get stuff done and, you know, settle our differences and in-house rather than outside. Nope, I guess on the positive note, we just released the teacher, the booster teacher that Mr. Baez has designed. We need to find everything for us at this point, you know, it's like the in-house designer. If I need a coloring book for like my nephew, I'm going to call, I can do like, I need you to design this several pages for me. Yeah, don't do that. Exactly. See, all right. So yeah, Zach went to work and he put together, you know, it's basically the same, yeah, it's a carpet python with the same type of thing, but this year, there's an albino. Oh, it's a little different. Yeah, it's just a little different. I think that's why I want to go from now on, just kind of just change it up just a little bit so it's recognizable, but, you know, it has a little bit something different every year. Maybe next year, I'll do something else. Maybe next year, I'll do a brettles, who knows, you know, I'd buy the hell of that. You know, that would be cool. I don't have a brettles on there. Anything like, so yeah, exactly. So every year I plan on doing like a different, a different type of a carpet, so that should keep it interesting, you know, but. Absolutely. I know we're bidding because there's going to be a lot of albino producers here. Albino's are pretty hot right now. Yeah. Yeah. So I figured that would be just for you to be sure. I'm the one who bought the shirt out of the three of us that are sitting here. Yeah, I got to go buy a bunch of them. You damn right. You do. Because I can see your name hasn't popped up yet, so yeah. I did go and post it over on the, on a couple Facebook page groups. You know, outside of the carpet by some world, it's been grabbing a couple of people bought it. Well, we should be, we should the marker at 50 shirts, because we're not trying to shoot for the moon or anything of that, because we need a certain amount before they will actually print. Like always. So we did set it in a lower amount. That's why we do get everybody to get their shirts out. But I think we've already sold five shirts and it's only been open since last night. And we have April 9th before the booster shuts down. Just like before when the booster shuts down, that's it. So do not, but again, a hold of us on April 10th. You guys have a ton of time to buy your t-shirts. Do it now. Do it early. This way you don't miss out. Every year there's always something you can like calls me a week after the booster is closed and it's like, I'm going to get a t-shirt now. But go to the booster and buy it. If you are out of the United States, we're doing the same thing like we always do. Go to the booster, use your credit card, use your name. But as the shipping address, put down my address, which I will provide it to you if you message me on Facebook or email me or anything like that. You can get my address this way. The t-shirt will be shipped to me with your name on it. Make sure you put your name. Last year I got like four shirts for own McIntyre. I only ordered one and then I had to find out who the hell will be he belongs to. So your name, put that on there. That's the way I get it and I will contact you and we will ship it to whatever time through you're in and get it to you. I know that Darian already is talking about getting his, so then he's got him for every year. So we've done that. Don't delay. Don't get your shirt, they're bad ass. We should. Yeah, that's what I was just going to say. All the money is going to your chart to fund the eventual lawsuit that we've just been talking about. So you guys and gals out there that we're wondering what you can do or how you can help. This is a way that Zach donated his time to get the design. We're donating our time to get it together and whatnot and all you do is you get a free shirt. I mean, it's a pretty sweet deal. So if you want to support them, then that's kind of the way to go. I know that the, what is it, the R-A-A-C-A, reptile and amphibians charity auction. They're starting a booster, not a booster, a, I'm going to pull it up. They're doing an auction I guess, for your research and then, correct? Another one. Yeah, they're doing an auction. And it goes from, I'm going to say it goes from, I'm trying to find a date on here. Sorry. I had the date written down, I'm going to say it's still April 13th or something, let's say. Okay. Damn Facebook. Well he's working house every season going, Zach, you sitting on eggs yet? Two weeks, man. Two weeks ago. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. And which is funny because that makes the weekend carpet fast going to be when everything is supposed to be hatched and so maybe I'll come home. Yeah. Which stripe jungles? Yes. Your stripe jungles. She will be lying in two weeks. So yes, she should be hatching. If the clutch is fertile, I don't see it not being but she's going to be sitting on those bad boys because you know I'm returning over here and so we're looking at the weekend of carpet fast, probably they'll be hatching so yeah, you will get your, you'll get them that weekend. Cool. Cool. Nice. Nice, right? Yeah. I'm excited about those. Yeah. But you know, like that moment when you look at your girl you're like, I don't think she's ready. I'm doing that right now. Like, like, wait a minute. She's swelled up. She had a clear ovulation. She has a pre-lay shed. She's laying on her side. She's laying it as a donor and, and you don't think that she's going to lay. But I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah. The three weeks between the pre-lay shed and the actual layday is like, you think that is not going to happen. Like it's, and then what happens, you're surprised every time. Every time you're surprised. You're like, oh my God. It actually worked. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. That's the way I feel. It's like, oh, it's like a miracle. It happens every time, you know. It's like, holy crap. All right. Yeah. There's eggs. Yeah. So, I'm kind of in that mode where I'm like, I don't see anything, but I know she's going to be dropping something. Whether or not they're going to be good or not, I don't know. I'm a little nervous this year because I did some things a little bit different. But these girls have both of them have produced for me before. So, the only thing I didn't do was feed on the warm-up. I didn't feed this year because, frankly, they were way ahead of schedule, like they were already have ovulated before the warm-up and everything. So I was like, well, they know what they're doing more than I do. So, I mess with that. But that is kind of worrying me because I did do things a little different, but they should be fine. I'm just being, I was getting the deal there as you get before having to do the same thing I do. You know, I'm never satisfied until they're on eggs. Even then, I'm like, I'm not sure if she's going away and she's sitting on eggs. I mean, it's one of those things that you do it every year, and obviously you can throw it. I'm excited as hell because it gets what's locking up every day for the past week and a half. It's been chewy and jibber with the jib deck. So I'm just like, oh. Oh, oh, oh. Super jibber and jib, dinghy. I don't know what they even call them. So I'm all about that. So we'll see some, I'm red, man, the bread will both would grab it. I'm ready to roll. I'm just terrified with all the moving stuff that I'm just going to get plug clutches and to help. I don't know. What do you do when you don't produce anything a year? I mean, well, Owen, I might have plenty of stuff for you to sell at your Hamburg shows and fill up your tables. Oh, I'm sorry. The problem is, is that I'm too far too high-end to go myself, but usual, beyond. Take my steak sandwich, take my steak and tell them, make money, and give it all to me. Listen, you jerk off. I'm simply stating that my job requires me to work on the weekend. Therefore, I can't just disappear to reptile shows all the time. I'm just trying to help you. Yeah. Which brings in, I'm going to Kenley this weekend. Oh, that's right. Totally. Yeah. It is. It is. It is. It's amazing. Text me your list of what you want me to try to dig up for, yeah? And if you want to send me a cash, I will go ahead and like grab whatever you want. Yeah. I don't think that the both of you just had that very tempting sigh in your voice of like, oh, I got enough stuff going on. I think good. Yeah. I think good. I haven't bought an animal in a long time. I haven't bought a snake and over here. It's like, yeah, it's been, it's been good. So I've, I've just let me look. Let me put this right. There's only one animal that would be there that would cause me to spend money and you both know what it is. So exactly. If, if they're there, I'm doomed. All right. I don't even care how much money it is. They just, you know, if they're there, I'm toast. If they're not there, I can so probably put off every other animal that's there. Yeah. Like I can wait for it later. Okay. Female rustles. I'm going to lose every time. So. Yeah. Hopefully they're not. To jump, not to jump back, but the, I want to squeeze this in. I want to squeeze this in before we stop going live. One of the, one of our listeners, you guys all know him, K J. What's his last name? I can't see it from the thing. Cluesener. You guys, you'll know who he is from early pick of the week and anyway, he's, he's been asking me for a while to do a carpet python Hall of Fame. I think it's a really good idea and something. What I mean by that is to like touch on some hall of fame, right? But to touch on like animals, like, for instance, PC poster, child matter, this is the thing that me and you were talking about. Leader Hall of Fame. The animal. Okay. Yes. Honestly, brings up a couple of points, um, it's not for nothing, but I think that, and I'm very bad at this, you know, but I used to think I went, you're probably gonna say I'm a dick after I say this sentence, but you used to have like, you used to have these really cool names. Well, I shouldn't say you used to have, you had these cool names, like, and I'd be like, how did you come up with these names? And then some of the newer names, I'm like, all right, so he's probably run out of his cool name list. And now he's got to have some. So I, I don't feel like such a tool back anymore when I'm doing my animal something, you know, like I named my animal shimmer or something and you said, some, I can't remember what you said the other day and I was like, his cool name list is gone. He's down, done. He's on the list of the B name list. I can't remember what name it was. Anyway, the 20 days I have the reserved animal because I want it. He's, he's blood is named something funny. What was it? What was it? Blood, blood name is really. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's a rabbit. So it's kind of like, all right. I mean, come on. It was a little funny too, Eric, let's be honest. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I know. I'll be the first one to admit it. I'm not going to say that it's not. I'm not sitting here denying like this is the coolest name. I'm just saying that my, my list of names were like, you run out of a cool name. Also, I refuse to repeat names, which is why everyone's yelling at me because the rough scale is the Romulus and Vulcan and they're like, why isn't it Romulus and Remus because the brothers boy had a Remus and he's dead and I refuse to read his names. So. Okay. I mean, it helps with it. Well, here's the other thing, like my male names are easy for me to come up with because I just name it after guitar players. No, I do, like Satchess for Satriani, Joe Satriani, Vyze for Steve Vy. I have one named Zeezy after Zeezy Top, you know, like, I don't know, I just got all these names after guitar players, which is, you know, that's great. But yeah, with all these names, it's just like, what the hell do I call this? It's hard. I know. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. But then I think. Good. My, my, uh, blue tongues are all named after, uh, characters from madmen. Just playing to go around there. Right. Yeah. Right. My favorite male is named Don Draper because I hope you get, you know, embodies all of Don Draper. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. My female carpets, well, most of them are named after female jazz singers. So they go, you know, the air, uh, uh, Ella Fitzgerald and, you know, all that type of stuff. Yeah. Because I kind of adopted something because when I was, when I was a college, they would breed the horses and, um, when they would breed the horses, they would have a year thing for the horses. So all the babies are born, all the babies born in 2000, like seven, all were named after alcohols. And then they'd be like, oh, yeah. And then they'd be like, oh, yeah. And then they'd be like, oh, yeah. And then they'd be like, oh, yeah. And then they'd be like, oh, yeah. And then they'd be like, oh, yeah. And then they'd be like, oh, yeah. And then they'd be like, oh, yeah. And then they'd be like, oh, yeah. And then they'd be like, oh, yeah. And then they'd be like, oh, yeah. 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So that's something that we'll be putting together. But it takes a little while because it's a lot of research that goes into that. Especially when you have one guy doing it. Yeah, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So we're still putting together the tiger. You know, because I think that's another one that we try to hit on is I'm going to. Like, we're going to go through the morphs one by one for carpets. Right. And, you know, we did a genetic show. Tigers next and then granite and, you know, go down the line and hit on the same things that we hit on. Because, you know, I think that that's, I don't know, that stuff out there and maybe, you know, people that are been doing carpets for a while, that would be a show that they wouldn't listen to. But for new people. It's like a refresher anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You know. I don't know. Anyway, I'll get back to, well, real quick, I'll throw these dates out. So the auction for the U.S. arc charity auction. They're taking donations now. It's going to be March 15th to the 22nd. And they're looking for donations now. So I guess you can go over to their Facebook group page. Which is R-A-A-C-A auctions. And you can submit your information there for your donation. So there's another way that you can get involved and donate something to the auction. And, you know, a lot of people have stepped up. And I know these guys have raised a ton of money in their past, past times. Yeah. You know, past auctions that they've done. So that's another way you can support them. I would say that you really don't need to do the petitions at this point. To me, I don't know if that time is coming along. The things. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, those come across me. It seems like a waste of time, I guess. I mean, I don't know. I would, for me, correct. It makes you feel better. But Zach said earlier that if he's been made, you're not going to change their mind at this point unless you get in the court. So all of our eggs. At some point, lawyers need to be involved. Yeah. You know? All of our judges do you know, purpose, you know? Yeah, right. That's the point. Like, dude, I got to take your ass to court because you're not going to listen to me. So we're going to have a judge decide. Like, yeah. Absolutely. So we're at that point right now. Okay. Yeah. And there's. Is donate to the fund. That's the best thing you can do, guys. Absolutely. Is donate to that fund. Yeah. Five dollars. And do. Ten dollars. I mean, they're, you know, there's a lot of us out there. And if everybody donated five dollars, that would be a huge amount of money. But the thing of it is that this can't end. You know, this has to be a constant thing because, like I said earlier, we're going to be fighting the US government in court. So they're probably going to try to wait us out, you know? Especially because they probably don't want it to get to that level. Yeah, because they probably don't want it to get there. And think about how many times they, they've switched judges three times. What does that tell you? Yeah. They're trying to wait us out and see if we just fold and just give up. Now we got to freak it out. And the best way we can do that is by providing them the funds and the money they can't to get their lawyers and the lobbyists there. That's not cheap. That's what we're going to be doing also is be doing an auction at Carpetfest. So we stay tuned for when we're going to be putting together everything for the auction. It doesn't necessarily have to be a snake. And it doesn't have to be a gift card for a snake. It can be anything. You know, I mean, if you, I don't know, hell if you can. If you want to go buy a stat system and put it up in the auction, that's fine. I mean, you want to do anything with that? Maybe you, I don't know, maybe somebody listening in is somebody that puts together cages and they want to donate a cage. Maybe they, maybe they do feeders and they want to donate, you know, gift cards for rodent. Maybe they're going to shine at home. Maybe they make a bunch of alcohol. Maybe you make your own beer. You want to auction beer off. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe they found a really disgusting type of vodka when they were in Alaska and they want to bring that talk to them all. By the way, fellas, I have some nice Cuban cigars for us at Carpetfest. Just saying. Nice. Oh, yeah. Just saying. Yeah. Yeah. And while I was looking up that the last, well, the last thing I really, I want to hit on this, I wanted to get in on that conversation with you guys when you're talking about your breeding and whatnot. And it's kind of weird. Yeah, I know. It's kind of weird, though, this, this year. Females that I thought weren't going to go, for instance, my M Pen that I bred with, that I put with the Sylvester male, I didn't think she was going to go, you know. And then I fed her. Well, I fed her twice. And now I noticed that she's ovulated and I've noticed locks. I did the same thing with caramel zebra and super caramel zebra jag. I put them together, noticed locks, I fed her. I'm telling you, man, the secret to this, you feed them and I fed them twice. Like last year, I only fed them once. But this year, I fed them twice because it seemed like they weren't kind of like ready to go or so. You know, it seemed like they were late or something. And the couple females that I had that I thought had their pre like the caramel had albino female who I thought had her pre lay had what only happens over here is a pre ovulation shed. So every time Eric said that, I'm like, what? Eric has experienced this a few times over the seasons, right? I know you have. But only because I've ever heard of it. Yeah. So way back when I was first breeding carpets, I talked to Nick about it and I was like, you know, Nick, I'm very frustrated. This is what happened. It went over my records of what I was keeping and I was talking to him about it. And he basically was telling me, he think he thought that my females were having a pre ovulation shed. So basically with ovulation kicking in, they kind of like expand a little bit. And I'm wondering if that has to do with my feeding. So if I'm not really feeding, you know, and then all of a sudden their body swells, it would make sense that, you know, that they would go into a shed. So I was missing. I was seeing that as, oh, this is free light because they would really, you know, I'm thinking, oh, yeah, I saw locks all through the winter. Good to go. This is a done deal, you know, and it's not. So like you can really get screwed up if you're breeding and that happens. But luckily. Yeah. Yeah, I did. You know, I was like, oh shit, I pulled all the males. And then it was weird. I was like, something told me to put the albino back in with her and I put them in and the next day came in and they're locked. And I'm like, huh, I don't think that the, I don't think that they have sex just for the fun of it. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think it's like, I don't see a little piece. You wouldn't be receptive. Yeah. You wouldn't waste energy if she was grabbing. It doesn't make sense. You know, no. So right. That's, that's crazy. And you felt her, Zach. You felt that girl. You looked at her and you're like, oh, she's good to go. I'm like, oh, yeah, I thought so too. But apparently not. But now, like now they're, they got that really solid feel, you know, so now I really think that they're, they are. And it's, and when we were looking at the snakes before, you could tell that, um, that the swell has moved down into the lower part of the body. So that right now. Okay. Correct. So to me, that tells me that, uh, I might have a lot of, uh, a lot of carpet pythons. But the cool thing is, is that I guess I keep my female smaller. So my clutches aren't as big. Yeah. So I have smaller. You're looking at what 10 to 12. Probably. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm looking at too. 10 to 12. This is what I, what I do. Like maybe, maybe, maybe up to 16 sometimes. Maybe I have one 16. That's one. Yeah. Small touches over here too. So I think what I got going on and I don't want to jinx myself. So I'm going to knock on wood real quick. But I got, um, the two tiger clutches. One's, uh, outcrossed, uh, citrus tiger. And the other one is a tiger bred to a jagged exanic. Um, I got, um, probably super, well, super caramel zebra jagged to a caramel zebra. Um, I got, uh, zebra head albino, caramel head albino. Um, outcrossed. No, I don't think she's grab it. I got N Pen like really nicely striped. Hopefully we get some striped coastals. Um, N Pen. I just want N Pen. Yeah. Just straight N Pen. Yeah. I think, um, and then I got the outcrossed ones, which is N Pen and Sylvester. Oh, I want to see those so that I can't wait for those. Yeah. And, uh, what's the other one? Uh, I forget double head snows. Uh, and then citrus tiger to, uh, super caramel zebra jagged. Um, kind of a, oh yeah. And then my caramel girl, which had the caramel jagged and the caramel girl together. And I think she's grab it. So, uh, caramel jags and super caramel jags and super caramels and all that stuff. Well, I'd like to see what your super caramel jags would look compared to mine. Because I know that we have, they're just so different from each other. Yeah. So, yeah, so that should be, should be, uh, should be a fun season. And the funny thing is, is that poison ivy ovulated, but I didn't put her with anything. So. I, I, I didn't want to take the chance. I didn't, I just didn't want to take the chance. You know, I want to save her for next year and breed a, uh, a son back to her. See what happens. Yeah. Yeah. So. Have you been feeding him or what? Yeah. Yeah. Eric, he or Owen feeding better. He's in your own. Yeah. No, I'm, I'm going to agree. Yeah. You got to own feed him. You know what I mean? Yeah. Think about, think about that. What do you call it though? Think about, um, well, you guys know, because you're on the message, but every, it seems like every other weekend. I was getting, um, uh, live stuff just to get him going. You know, I wasn't even wasting time with trying to get on the gut. Like it's like, okay, I'm just going to go live. You're fine. You know, so. That's why I want to be eating chickens. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Let you get your chicken. But um, you need to don't care. Yeah, I'm, I'm trying to get my eggs. And I'm thinking up to three next year. With my caramel. It's a, it's a big bill. I'm not sure. We're, we're, Owen feeding to the max over here. So. Come on. 300 grams. That's all he needs. 300 grams. I'm such great faith in me now because what you guys are doing, the little worm of a male. Oh my God. It's ridiculous. My expectations of weight. I need to get him at have dropped significantly. So. Yeah. Yeah. But you all have to realize the male is also five years old. And he's like four years old. He may be 300 grams, but he's like four years old. So. True. So he's already producing his family. Yeah. He's mature. He's tiny, but he's mature now. I, I've read a year and a half old before. I'm tired, but never, never anything that, you know. The, the females are never as big as Venus is. So that's the tricky part. Yeah. Oh yeah. We got a big female and a tiny male. Where she's got a question. When I know. Oh my God. No. No. No. Yeah. Oh, okay. Don't say that. I, I had that problem here too. I'm like, I hope she does not crush him. Like, I really hope he just stays out of her way and like, be able to ride her. I was like, this could be bad. Cause yeah. They stay out of the way. If he had to work, so I don't know. Yeah. Well, he got it done. Well, let's hope he got it done. So. Hope something happened. Yeah. Yeah. Strike jungles are probably going to be, that's going to be badass. And you know what, that project for me, I have quite a number of unrelated strike animals to go with. With that. Especially that one I got from Usac, that female, the real dark one. With the strike down her back. Oh, dude. I think it's turning out so. I haven't seen her a long time. Oh. Yeah. She's going to be one of those ones who say, yeah, you're going to say, what did I do? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the caramel version of, you know, that's the jungle version of the caramel that I sold you in. Yeah. I'm sure. I'm sure. Sorry guys. Okay. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I don't know. That's a, that's a, to try to true trick that I don't know if it's a trick or whatever. But I, maybe you have to feed the way that I know me and Zach kind of feed very similar. So it seems to work. But as soon as you start putting those, that food to the female after she comes up, man, that's like a, that's like a trigger that you flip the light switch on and they're ready to go. Like, oh, okay. Food. Boom. So. Yep. Absolutely. It does work. It really does work. If you find your female is not doing anything, it doesn't hurt. So it's certainly not going to hurt the process. As long as you keep the, keep the meal small, you'll be fine. Yeah. I want to go feed a jumbo rat or like a freaking rabbit or something when your female's on a developed taco. It's probably not in enough room in there. I don't think I, at least it works so well when she's full of turd. But, you know, keep the meal small and yeah, it's perfectly fine. Yeah. But it's definitely weird. You know, last year my female was in the middle of a shed on eggs while they were hatching. Wow. I've never seen that before. Wow. She shed two days after the eggs hatched. I mean, she was blue. The pictures I have of them hatching in her coils, she's blue. Her eyes are totally blue. Wow. So, I don't know why I didn't feed her. I don't know what was going on there. I don't know. She, she shed like literally right then. Weird. Maybe she felt like it was winding the, I don't know. Because I know they usually shed pretty, pretty quickly after going through maternal. But it's usually because after they're done, you feed them, you know what I mean? And so then that's when they start to shed again. But she did it before I even fed her. She just, she was shut out automatically. She went right back on food and she, she built fuckles this year. I should probably should have bred her, but I was trying to give her the ear off, especially since she, uh, maternal last year. So, but she probably would have went. I don't know. It was weird. Very weird. Very weird. Maybe it's, maybe it's a Philadelphia water, man. We should try and lift that. We should, we should probably lift it up because, uh, I don't know. I don't know. It's, yeah, it's the John, man. That's what it is. That's the John. I'm not new. This is John. The cheesesteing. We're great. Not new. That's the word that you put in everything. But no one can explain to me what he is. Okay. It's the John. That all the job is just anything. It doesn't have to be a dog. Oh, it's annoying. She could be a John. He's a bird. Addya John Oh, it's one of those Western Pennsylvanians Oh, okay. I mean, he likes the dealers. You know, he's one of those guys. You know, whatever, Jens and Pittsburghy. Yeah, he's wrong. He's from Pennsylvanian. You know what I mean? Especially where he lives now. My goodness. Didn't mean your name, your name, your name, your name. Hey, I'm done you right now. You do you boo. You do you boo boo. That is so funny. You should have put that on the back of this shirt. That may limit the amount of people that will buy the shirt. Got to be exactly. Yeah, it's true. Did you see how I wear that shirt? I don't think so. Who put this bullshit on this shirt? What are you people doing? I don't know. Oh, it lost his mind. Oh my God. Oh, and I'm very jealous. Are you going to be a tilling man? I'm very jealous. I'm Jones and some reptile happiness, man. I really am. I cannot wait to talk about it. I just can't wait. I'm really hoping it's going to be a good show. We're leaving at 2 a.m. on Friday morning. So, yeah. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to sleep Thursday. So, it's whatever. Because I got to make sure that everything is good here and I got to chop off my dog at my sister's plate. Are you flying? No, no, we're driving. Who's driving? Andrew and I. Andrew's going. You didn't tell me that. He's never been. And apparently there's a lot of monitor stuff that's starting to cook up. He wants to look at it. Oh yeah. He says by next Tinley, he should have two clutches of white throat eggs and he wants to go with us and just have a table at Tinley as well. That's cool. Oh, actually this is a road trip. There you go. I wish I was going. I have it on my calendar at work, but I couldn't get off, so it didn't work. But at least one of us will be there to represent. I'm a reporter. Are you kidding me? You're great. They're not the one you want to talk to either. You have to put on your politically correct suit. You don't only represent yourself, Owen. I know. I know I have to behave. He ain't here. It's so funny because I don't look at myself as older than you guys. I don't know. I just like, but in reality, I'm like 10, maybe 15 years older than you guys. So it's like, yeah. Whenever a situation happens, you know, Owen's like, he's that 20 year old dude. He's like, I'm ready to kick some motherfuckers ass. I'm just going to start bashing people with trees. I'm like, Owen? And then, and then Eric's like, I'll end up with you stand over there. All right. I said, there comes a point. And then after that point, it's like, all right, screw this shit. Release Owen. Go ahead. Eric Eric is public relations. He's a calm, cool, collected one. You would have to leave that with some of the ranch. I think I handle myself pretty calm when situations arise. I agree. That's why you're fine with it. That just comes from my job. No listeners, if I was involved with that stuff, none. They would all be gone. And if we don't, who cares? Yeah, we'll talk to each other. Yeah. Yeah. Owen's so quick to swing that band hammer and Eric's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa now. I got it. I got it. It's fine. We're banning this mother. He's gone. I'm out of here. He picked me up. And, and oh, it's a tolerance over the last few years of gone less. Yeah. It's like, Owen, you're not going to warn him first? Nope, gone. You're out. Holy shit, dude. I was going to, I was going to, yo, yesterday you posted up, um, you posted up a Savoo Python. Yeah. You pick of the week. I was going to, I was going to go and post on your thing. Since when did this become a, I asked this for him. Clearly says that the top really a pick of the week. If you want to post. I'm going to remove you from the group. Just call it. Remember, I'm the super user. So. Unbatable. The group was created. It's not even possible. Somehow Owen would reverse hack my computer or something. Anyway, I'm like, I'm like, oh man. Because they were cool. And somebody was like, blast. I'm like, you know, we put other things in here. I wanted to fire back when we put other things in here. Then morale. You're so fast. I just, I just let it go. I'm like, I'm done. Yeah. It's not even possible. Somehow Owen would reverse hack my computer or something. But anyway, I'm like, I'm like, oh, man. Because they were cool. And somebody was like, blast. I'm like, you know, we put other things in here. I wanted to fire back when we put other things in here. I just, I just let it go. I'm like, I was going to play. They complained about the condros. Remember that? Yeah, I know. Oh, yeah. And we know we're serious. I put it. I put it because a lot of us do morale. But we still have people like put white lips in there every once in a while. I'll put them, I said, lose in there every once in a while. All the olives is they were stopped moving long enough for me to take a picture of them. You know? Yeah. Okay. If you put them all the way in there, I'm going to bang. But that's. Everything else is maybe next thing I know. There's going to be royal pythons on this thing. No. No. Hey, listen, I'd rather see non-morrelia in Marrelia pick it a week than Marrelia in Marrelia, et cetera. That's my opinion. Yes. You know what I mean? Wait a minute. I thought the whole idea was this is to post a picture of stuff that other stuff we keep. You know what I mean? I hate it when like there's one guy who takes his picture of his like whatever and puts it in every single group. And because he's my friend, I have like my whole sense like 12 notifications on our own spaces. The same pictures posted in every single goddamn thing. And it's just a straight line of this one thing. So as soon as I'm in the pick of the week, rather than taking the sevus out throw them in the y-axis group and then throwing them in Marrelia, et cetera, there it is. Go look, done, done. The miracle I even took pictures, okay? Come on. I know. Is that a word? Yeah. Wait a minute. By the way, I want to tell you, I've been noticing those pictures, my friends. Very good job. I have been listening despite what I do. So, I just... Yeah, they look good. I have and I actually took all my lights that I use in the show for displays. And I hung them all around the light tent and they're going into like all sides. It's like a ring of light right into this light tent. And then I just put between paper towels down and take the picture of the snake and it wiped out of a paper towel. And snake pops out. Nice. Now that I made that wonderful new logo for you, you know, I could always make it into a watermark. You know what I mean? Business cards arrived a few days ago and the table cloth that even told you about is arriving. Is the table cloth white? The table cloth is a thick black table cloth with a white runner. And then the white runner has a flag on it. That's going to be nice. Next show we do, we're going to look tall. So, I can't wait. You mean? What you mean cooler? Cooler. Cooler. I'm going to look so high-end. I can almost do. You look too high-end for Eric. Too high-end for Eric now. I'm way too high-end for Eric now. You can almost flip. You can almost flip. Here comes the plastic screen. Nice. I know every time Eric goes into like a seer or something like that, he's always looking at those screens. You can think of those as one day. It's true. There's one at my work and it sits up on top of the gift card rack. And I'm like one day this is going to go on half price. I'm going to buy. I want to buy. I mean, really? Yeah. It's a high-end baby. It's a high-end baby. I want to tell everybody needs to go. I don't want to see these Maryland guys. I'm worried about the Maryland guys. I'm going to be honest because they're not going to come out and make the trek. I'm worried that they're going to, you know, I don't know. They're going to come. They're going to come. They're going to come. I have faith in, you know, everybody from Maryland. They're going to make the trek out. I am who they are. All right. All right. All right. And people, people, you know, above the New Jersey border up there, you know, who I'm talking about, you guys better be there too. Because now I'm ignored. So there's no more excuses if you throw over. You better be there. Well, good buddy. Bill's coming. Yeah. Yeah. He's going to always be touching. Nobody has anything to say. Everybody better be there. He's flying in. It's great. He's like, he's like, oh, what's your closest airport? I'm like, Billy. He goes, it's an hour and six minutes away. How about Harrisburg? I'm like, it's an hour and five minutes away. He goes, where are we? Yeah, no, we do. Oh my God. No. Yeah. No, we can pick him up from Philly. We can take him from Philly. Yeah. Well, I can also find a Philly. He's going to rent the car and then he's driving up in the media. Make us here around noon on Saturday. Because we haven't really set the time for when car profess will begin. It's just, it's May 30th. I thought we did later in the afternoon before. I'm not sure. Typically, we've always made it three, but I think people show up, you know. I'm showing up at noon. I'm not going to care. I'm going to be ready. Well, I'm going to talk to Bill because I think it's ridiculous that two of us live in Philadelphia and he's going to have to rent a car. I thought, aren't you guys coming up Friday to set up? Yeah. Yeah. You won't be in Philly. His flight comes in on Friday night. I saw it. Oh, it does? Yeah. He's going to be, I think he posted his flight times on Facebook. I believe he's going to be in Philly at seven o'clock. Yeah. Reach out to Bill because he becomes in Friday night. If you guys want to come over here, he can hang out. And then I know he's staying at the hotel down the road, though. He's not staying here, so. Yeah. But we could drop him off. Yeah. Yeah. I'll talk to Bill. I'll talk to Bill as I'm saying. I'm trying to make it as easy as possible for everybody to show up to this place. I don't want to hear no excuses. Okay. Can I have good food? Yeah. We're going to go straight up together. Good alcohol. Mohito chicken. Mohito chicken. That's all I got to say. I'm going to bring double this time because last time it went so quick that I probably should bring double. Howard's bringing crabs, right? Yeah. Yep. Yep. That's all Howard's got. I'm sure Eric's going to bring his roast beef. Yeah. Bring the roast beef. I have to figure out what I'm going to do. I don't know what the hell I'm going to do. And I have committed to man the grill all day if that's what it takes to get the food out. My father may be coming. Oh, no. Jim from Morgantown. Sweet. You from Morgantown. Oh, my God. I think that means Rob's going somehow. I think that means Rob's going. And now I can't stop him. So, excuse me. Rob's going to just throw his dick at him. Anyway, that might be happening. Oh, that's awesome. He's going to be like, "So, son, when are you going to hook up with a girl or something?" That's crazy. That's a hell. We don't need to look these things again. Oh, man. Oh, man. And he doesn't need that. That's good, buddy. He does not need that ammunition for the likes of you people. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Rob was just waking up. He's going to be listening to this tomorrow morning. He's going to spin his coffee all over the spot. Jim from Morgantown. In the house. Oh, my God. Oh, that's great. I love it. Hey, hey, wait, wait, wait. Being that's going to be in a... Hey, Rob. Yeah. Maybe, maybe, maybe, are we going to do a shout-out from Carpicev this year? We haven't done it in the past. Boy, it's going to be a little hard to do. Yeah. It's going to be hard to do that. You know what? If we had a GoPro, we could have somebody like build on Carpicev and edit it and put a movie up. And that's it. Actually, I have a GoPro. I have a really good video camera now. Here we go. See? Yeah. So, I don't think we should do that. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Does this thing happen that Carpicev says, like, you know, things happen at Carpicev? I should not be talking about kind of things. You know what I mean? I think. This is true. Does that Carpicev? I don't know. Because I remember editing promising somebody, animals, which I don't think he remembers. No, no, I know. It's in my book. Oh. Oh, that's right. That's right. He was like, wait a minute. How I know you're not just drunk. And you're going to remember this. And then every website of the copy book, I will die. Oh, yeah. That's right. If it goes in the book, then it's legit. That's legit. That's going to happen. Yeah. He's like, oh my God, he's writing it down in the book. And it's all scribbled in there. Like all drum came writing and all that. He'll be able to read that later. And I think this was like five minutes before you got sick on craps. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was great. This year, though, I will make it through the auction, at least. That last year, no, but I paid you the little longer before you were sick. Shit. I mean, yeah, I know. It's that Maryland weather, man. It gets me every time. Maybe PA will be better. Let's see. But yeah, it's going to be a good time for sure. No doubt. Just to see me drunk is probably worth the price of admission. Yeah, I'm trying to see if I can promise you the world. You'll be like, oh, you'll be the first one in on that clutch. Yeah. I always am a man of my work. Eric, man, Eric, you get real, you get real generous when you, you know, just saying. I'm just saying. I could probably have been like, so can I have the first, first, uh, divs at your poison ivy clutch? I think you would have said yes. Actually, I think. Yeah. Well, that's you are on that list anyway. Yeah. It's true. This is before I was drunk. That wasn't, I wasn't promising anything that wasn't legit. But you got to get away. I'm just going to give people a set up to go on for second. If you want to get some free carpet by thorns, then bring Eric. Yeah. Eric loaded in the nest. Eric. Eric. You think an albino zebra jack could be in my future? Check it out, my man. I will hook you up with your own in the book. Who are you? Your name is in here. You're in. Hold on. Let me get my copy book. I'm going to write it down. You know what the sad part is? It's exactly like that. Pretty much. Yeah. I feel like exactly how it goes. Oh man. It's not about the money for me, man. It's only about. It's about. Hey, listen. Just bring. Just bring that apple. I'm trying to inspire greatness, man. Inspire greatness. Just bring the apple. Just bring the apple. And don't worry. You'll be giving everybody free carpets. It'll be great. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yep. This is true. You're probably making a nice case of that, my friends. I have a feeling a lot of people are going to want to try it. Oh, yeah. It's quite delicious. That is quite delicious. I have. I think I have four jars of it now, but before. It's probably not that you know. The entire carpet community goes blind. So. The thing of it is, is that when you drink it, it really doesn't taste that. Like it doesn't have like you're drinking like really strong. Alcohol. That's why you know it's really deceptive. Yeah, because you drink it and you're like, oh, this tastes pretty good. Drink it down and drink. More than you should have drank. And then next thing you know, you're like, oh my God. Everybody has this story up there first. First experience with light beer. Everybody has a story where they sit next to the cake with a light beer and they drink it like it's water because it tastes like water and then about an hour later. I'm assuming this is going to be something similar. So yeah, be careful. I guess. Sure. I'll probably be getting free snakes from everybody else because I'll be so I'll be staying sober. Drink up, man. I'm going to be like, I swear to God, dude. I thank you so much. Sure. Let me come home and rail your place. I love you with you. I love you so much like a brother. I'm going to give you free white lips. That being said, I'm putting my rough scales and witness production. They won't be here. Yeah, keep those cages locked, man. And then I'm away. Be able to take a tour of what oh and stuff is. And then don't forget the following day. Following day we're heading out to. Reptiland, which is. Which is a really cool spot. If you're into reptiles, it's kind of like a reptile zoo. It's up in PA might as well take advantage of it since we're in there and. I think we're going to try to get about 10 of us. We're just going to go and get behind the scenes. There so. Awesome. Yeah, so if you're definitely interested in that, if you guys can let us know, that'd be good. Yeah. Anybody who's like wanted to go. Yeah, the sooner we know that, we'll probably be the better just so we can get the logistics down. That's the other thing I guess at some point. We're going to have to put up who thinks they're coming list. Yeah, we kind of have an idea of who's coming. I don't know if it will change because of the. You know what I mean? Well, more people come now because of. In not being it being closer to some people now. Yeah, I know there's. I imagine we'll see some new faces. I imagine like not like new like refers me to people new to carpet faces. I also imagine the same old, same old, but my concern is that I'm worried that some of the people who took a little. It's a long drive to get to where Howard. Now the longer drive to get up here, are they going to, you know, bag it, which is, you know, I totally understand it, but I wish they won't because I'd like to see everybody. Right. Yeah. We'll see. People driving driving up from Georgia. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I know. And that's it. And it's understandable. Absolutely. Hopefully that's not all the family. But yeah, I mean, it's going to be a good time. And, you know, like we've said a thousand times before, it's cool to be able to, to hang out and talk to, talk to people and talk snakes. And, you know, the other cool thing is to find out what people do outside of, of reptiles. Because sometimes you'd be surprised at what, you know, people do. Yes. There's an outside of reptiles. Okay. Yeah. And who knows, like maybe you have a similar interest, you know, and maybe there's something else that you can connect with somebody on and, you know, new friendships are forged in that kind of weekend. We, we stop. We're now deterring people from coming. So stop it. We don't have to talk to people. Yeah. We're going to be building and you mean there's not going to be a keyboard available? No, guys. No keyboard. No keyboard. I will, I will take whatever guitar Eric brings away from him before he starts a campfire sing along. So, don't deter the man from his passion. Come on, man. I was thinking about that. You know, because it's funny. The other day, we were doing this, we were doing this thing at work where it was kind of a similar thing. And you came in and showed people what you, you know, something like something you were passionate about. And it was weird because to me, like everybody that I know that knows me, like personally knows that I can play guitar and has, has heard me play guitar. But like people that, you know, may not know me that way, don't know that. So like I started ripping, you know, I'm playing and they're like, yeah, I can play, you know. I almost sent you this video of this one, like this 12 year old girl just shredding a guitar to a song. Oh, I saw that song. You know, the Dragon Force song. Yeah. Yeah. And then when I will say that you went, you can challenge her and, you know, but, but I didn't want to do that. Because I have expected you to send me a video of you doing that thing. And I just be, you know, look at Jackass. Yeah, that's nothing, man. Yeah. Yeah. I must say that, um, my style, yeah, my style as of earlier when I was younger was probably more along the lines of that. I guess my style now is more, more a blues rock type of, you know, thing. Um, it's, it's kind of a side note, but one of my experiences was I used to be the shredder guitar player. And I would play, you know, as fast as you could and all this crazy technique. And I went to see Eric Clapton and he played one note and that literally the hair of my arm stood up. And I was like, he was playing, I shot the sheriff and he, in the band brings it way down, like real low. And it's like got the keyboard in the back and he's just kind of doing that reggae vibe. You know, and it's like this note and it's just like one note. And I was like, oh shit, the dude did one note, one note. I'm playing 32 notes in a second. And this guy does one note and he freaking gets that emotion out of me. And he probably changed my whole concept of how I looked at music, you know, because it's just like with anything else. Like when you look at something and you're in it, you don't, you're like your ears change the way you hear music when you become a musician. Because you're looking to be more technical, more advanced, you know, and you sort of like don't have that same ear as somebody listening to the music, just appreciating the music for what it is, you know. And it doesn't have to be technically advanced to get somebody to experience an emotion, you know. As long as it's real and you're playing from the heart, you know, that's probably where I get most of my passion from, you know, that passion all the time, shit comes from your heart. Because when you, I don't know when you play in front of people, you know, every night it would change if I was in a bad mood. I would play really aggressive if I wasn't, you know, I'd play, it just changed all the time. But anyway, that's what people didn't know. That's for another podcast. What people didn't know is that Eric was the greatest shredder in the Shire and, you know, all the other little hobbits were. Why he had to leave. The problem was that the guitar was as big as me. So, until they made these mini trick guitars. But anyway, it would be really cool, you know, it would be awesome if we could somehow get Marcy old Mendez to come out. I don't know where he lived. But I know that he's kind of a blues rock too. And I'm sure we could scrounge out some other sessions. You can have a gym session. Remember, my neighbors got kids, so you better do it before the sun go down. So, we can keep it low, man. Oh, you better. Yeah, you might want to pull on them, just saying. I intend to. I intend to. That's awesome. So, yeah, car too fast. We're sending zero away too, because I don't want to do assault Eric the entire time. Yeah, man. I almost lost my, you know, my ability to bear children and these trips. Yeah, you're a really like you. Yeah, well, I don't know, maybe. I don't know what's going on there, but I'm referring from common. I just say that I feel very violated when I leave your house. Well, you know, when he rears all of you, I can't stop it. I mean, yeah, I know. And you can't do it. Now we dance. Yeah, anyway, let's end this break. Yeah. Good Lord. Let's say, yeah, so Carfa Fest is May 30th May 30th. Yeah. For more information, you can check out carpetfest.homestead.com. You can check out the Facebook page, Carpet Fest, for all updates. And go over and get yourself a shirt. Yeah, boost over the place. Definitely a really cool shirt. And you were supporting a good cause, US Arc. So check it out. Next week, I don't have to listen in front of me. So I'm kind of doing this off the top of my head. I don't know who's on next week, but I know we're going to be having Tim Tyndall. He's going to be coming and joining us. And we're going to be talking about inland carpets. Night, which we never had a show about that. So it would be cool. There's a, he's the one guy that I always think of when I think of inland carpets. He has a passion for those things that you wouldn't believe. I'm looking to get another short tail show squeezed in there. And we're working on the, like we said, the carpet python, you know, hall of fame idea and the morph show. As we progress through. I know that we'll have an update from Tyndall next Tuesday. Because everyone will be letting us know what's going on. Carpet row, all that exciting stuff. So tune in for that. And I guess Mariah, python radio.com. You can check out the website. And we also have the shows over there. Looks like everything is back up and running on iTunes. I don't know if people had some problems, but looks like everything is good to go there. If you have any questions or comments, you can send them to info@mariah python radio.com. And as far as myself, ebmariah.com. Facebook, Twitter. I actually hit a thousand likes and I know you're trying to take it away from me, Ellen. But I may or may not have a few people to go in and like you because you're so happy. Yeah. Well, it's earned. I mean, it's like real likes, you know what I mean? It's not like that bullshit people do where they buy Indonesia likes or whatever. You know what I mean? But I don't know. It felt cool to hit a thousand. So for everybody that likes to page, thank you for liking it. Hopefully, I continue to bring you cool stuff for you to look at and check out. I think that's all I got. So I guess Zach made me throw your stuff out there and then Owen, wrap it up. Got it. Alright. So if you want to get in contact with me, just hop on Facebook. And it's Zach. If you're interested in any logo design stuff, I am currently picking any commissions. Maybe a little while because I have a few I still have to do, but yeah, absolutely. If you want any work done, let me know. And that's pretty much it. Alright. For me, you can go to rogues-reptout.com. It's also on rogereptout.com on Facebook.com. We just updated all the pictures of the babies that we currently have for sale. If you are going to be in Cindy Park and interested in any animals that we have for sale, get in contact with me this week. I can bring it out to Pinly, free or charged. There won't be any shipping and stuff involved. So, and we're still a little bit ways off from the warm weather. So if you don't want to wait, now will be the time to do it. I'll meet you up at Pinly Park. That's all I got. What we will say is thank you all for listening. We will catch you all next week for some more Moralea Python radio. Good night. Hey, Chad Brown here. You may remember me as a linebacker in the NFL or as a reptile breeder in the owner of Proxox. I've been herping since I was a boy and I've dedicated my life to advance in the industry and educating the community about the importance of reptiles. I also love to encourage the joy of breeding and keeping reptiles as a hobbyist, which is why my partner Robin and Marklyn and I create the reptile report. The reptile report is our online news aggregation site, bringing the most up-to-date discussions from the reptile world. Visit the reptilereport.com every day to stay on top of the latest reptile news and information. We encourage you to visit the site and submit your exciting reptile news, photos and links, so we can feature outstanding breeders and hobbyists just like you. The reptile report offers powerful, brandy and marketing exposure for your business, and the best part is, it's free. If you're a buyer or breeder, you've got to check out the reptile report marketplace. The marketplace is the reptile world's most complete buying and selling destination, full of features to help put you in touch with the perfect deal. Find exactly what you're looking for with our advanced search system, search by sex, weights, morph, or other keywords, and use our Buy Now option to buy that animal right now. Go to marketplace.the reptilereport.com and register your account for free. Be sure to link your marketplace account to your Ship Your Reptiles account to earn free tokens with each shipping label you book. Use the marketplace to sell your animals and supplies to maximize your exposure with a platinum mat. It also gets fed to the reptile report and our powerful marketplace Facebook page. Buy your own selling, use shipyourreptiles.com and take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. Shipyourreptiles.com can also supply you with the materials needed to safely ship your animal successfully. Use shipyourreptiles.com to take advantage of our discounted priority overnight shipping rates. The materials needed to ship the reptile successfully, live customer support in our live, on time, arrival insurance program. We got you covered. Visit the reptilereport.com to learn or share about the animals. Click on the link to the marketplace, find that perfect pet or breeder. Then visit shipreptiles.com to ship that animal anywhere in the United States. 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