Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
The hierarchy of engagement | Sarah Tavel (Benchmark, Greylock, Pinterest)
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I think a lot of people think about markets almost like these bodies of water. You know, it's like, oh, it's this big body of water that we're going after. And I actually think that the most interesting markets, you have to think of them like currents where you're just trying to, there's something happening in the market that's creating this current where you can have like a plank of wood that you put on the river and it's gonna pull you forward versus a market that doesn't really have that momentum to it. You're gonna have to build like something really big and fancy to make any progress. And that's why we care less about market size because really what you're looking for when you're looking at a market or what are the dynamics of change, what's the current and momentum that's gonna pull the company and make the job easier for the founders to actually build something that endures. (upbeat music) - Today, my guest is Sarah Taval. Sarah is a partner at Benchmark, one of the most preeminent venture capital funds in the world, where she focuses on investing in consumer and marketplace startups. Prior to Benchmark, Sarah was the first product manager at Pinterest. And though I normally have a policy against VCs on the podcast, as you'll see, Sarah thinks very much like a product and growth leader. And I always learn a ton talking to Sarah about startups and marketplaces. We also learned in our conversation, she used to play rugby and was apparently one of the best tacklers in her league. In our conversation, we unpack two of Sarah's killer frameworks for building a startup. One, the hierarchy of engagement, which is an incredibly useful lens for trying to figure out how to grow and scale your consumer startup. And then the hierarchy of marketplaces, which is an incredibly useful guide for helping you build your marketplace startup. If you're building a consumer startup
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