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And we'll change in plans 15 and 60 is going to be later in the week, had a few things come up. So didn't have time to give you the level of research that y'all deserve for that podcast. So we're going to do this one and bring you that West 15 and 60 probably on Thursday. So what we do every year is we do one show where we look back on what happened in a given year and pick the biggest stories. And then what we'll do early in next year is look ahead to what we think the biggest stories of 2025 will be. But of course, we have that podcast from 2024 to look back on as well. So we'll interspersed some observations of what we're thinking the big stories would be and what they actually ended up being throughout this show. So Danny, we'll just kind of go through some of the big stories, discuss them. Then we'll pick our top three biggest for each of us. What were some of the ones that really stuck out to you? Why don't you go ahead and pick one here to start us off? Sure, I think we have a number of different things that we'll discuss. But one that I think is going to be, it's not always the sexiest to talk about, but it is really important for the league that you and I focus on, the NBA, which is the new national TV deal. And we knew that the kind of the general outlines at this point a year ago, but we didn't know everything. And I mean, the nuances that happened over the course of this year with the deal coming to form with Amazon and NBC as new partners, NBC is a returning one. Amazon is entirely new, losing TNT, the drum with inside the NBA. And also just the clarified financial feature of the NBA. I think it's one of the biggest stories, even if it is off the court. Yeah, and of course, it determines so much about the league. And it's not quite as important as it was for the last TV deal, which was agreed to in 2014, came in for the 16-17 season. The league and union weren't able to agree on cap smoothing. You just didn't quite get it. Honestly, the league wasn't willing to offer them anything in exchange. And so we had all of those sour 16s and we also had KD going to the Warriors. Although had there been more smoothing, the Warriors probably could have figured out a way to do that anyway. Sure. They might not have had the same depth of a team. But this year, with the TV deal kicking in, this upcoming summer cap increases are limited to 10%. But knowing that it's going to go up 10% for at least three, four years, and then maybe to level off a little bit after that, we don't know what the other revenue streams are going to look like during this period. But yeah, there's going to be a lot of interesting stuff. I mean, for fans, it's probably a little worse for national games because now there is a third player in there in Amazon who are actually going to have conference finals. They're going to have the play in. They're going to have the NBA Cup. And so now the only way you can get that is to pay for Amazon. You if you had cable, you had the cable bundled. Now you don't actually get all the games anymore, which is kind of boring. You got to pay for Amazon if you want it. And there are other reasons to pay for Amazon. Of course, I always have. So it doesn't really affect me. But certainly there are people who don't pay for Amazon Prime. And so that matters. And also, as you noted, inside the NBA is going to be in theory going to ESPN right now. Charles Barkley is vacillating on that, at least a little bit. I haven't followed exactly what the list of that is. But they're going to license it out to ESPN. The league actually got sued by TNT. Didn't have much of a case, but they ended up settling. And then the league just getting paid. Like it's really it is validation for the NBA that they might not entirely deserve, honestly, particularly for some of the other stories that we're going to talk about here. But it's really more the overall market dynamics that despite declining ratings, despite there being too many games and frankly, probably too many injuries. And that being a big problem with the product. The other problems with the product we'll talk about too, or perceived problems with the product. So, but it is validation for Adam Silver. And everyone gets to make more money and franchise values, continue to skyrocket. The Celtics will see what they go for now knowing this. But this is more than just about anyone thought it would be there. So I thought that it would be a lot less, but they are going to more than double it over the course of the deal, although year to year and 24 25 to 25 26 is going to end up being about a like 60% increase is best. I can calculate 3.1 billion to the mid fives. So yeah, I mean, it's anything else you want to say about that? Just I mean, I think of relative to expectations, it came in even bigger. It came in bigger. And I believe it was longer too, because this isn't an 11 year agreement. Yes. Yeah, I mean, the league probably, especially because it goes up every year. The league probably did a pretty good job of, well, there's also it being longer helps them win the press conference because it just bumps up the average value. And so much of it has been, oh, they went from low twos to seven billion. But again, like you're comparing with that, they're going to make seven billion, you know, in the middle part of the deal. And they were making twos in the middle part of the last deal. So it's not like they're just doubling it year to year. Like that is an important thing to remember. And then the other part you mentioned, and this is completely fair, Amazon being a significant partner in the hurdles that that brings for for many viewers is that they also added NBC without losing ABC or ESPN. So there will also be a nether significant national network presence. And that could be significant. And that's free too. That is actually worth noting. Exactly. And so there will be, there will be more out there. And there will be some that will be harder to get, but there'll be some that'll be easier. And I didn't include the turmoil that seems to be happening with the regional sports networks and all of that in this. And I mean, that is a story. I think it does. It does relate to it though, because in a couple of ways, and number one, just that there has been a decline in revenue and in the cap only going up by 4% this year was in part due to those struggles and that did matter. A lot of teams are really up against the April and that'll be another thing we'll talk about surely. But then also the league has clawed more of these rights towards the national networks. And maybe by the end of this deal, that could be a precursor towards their finally being fewer games because local TV is the reason why all these contracts require them to play at least 72 games. And so I think we'll get a look at possibly things like League Pass actually, you can actually get your own in-market games if you buy League Pass. Amazon now owns once these Simon Sports networks. Amazon is going to be the new provider for League Pass. So there's going to be a lot of really interesting possibilities there, but so, and we may look back in five, six years and say, well, this TV deal was the precursor to all of that. And that will be good for fans. If your games would be great for fans and being able to get your local market and League Pass all at the same time would be great for fans as well. But as of right now, there is more fragmentation, which is probably not great for fans, although I wasn't a huge fan of TNT's production. And anyway, so I think being on Amazon and NBC, I think they're going to do a better job with the actual games than they are also not losing inside the NBA. It was the only thing that TNT was doing well. All right, I'll pick my first one here. This is what I had actually is my number two story and it ended up not being as big of a deal because none of these guys were able to really figure in the championship picture. And that was whether Nicole Yokich, Joel Embiid or Janice could secure a legacy as a top 20 player ever. Yokich may have done it with another MVP and being right in the mix again this year, but certainly his playoff performance didn't add to that a ton. Joel, of course, got hurt. He was, remember, when we recorded this last year, he was averaging a point a minute and just going absolutely crazy. And then shortly afterwards, he started getting the knee issues, ended up having the surgery, came back, he had the brace, they lost in the first round. And then Janice, of course, hurt his calf and didn't even appear in the playoffs. So none of those guys has done all that much since then. They still have, Joel, maybe his ship has sailed. I mean, I think that's maybe another part of this is just that Joel, probably more likely than not, is done as that type of a force given his frailties at this point. At least in the regular season, but our belief that he will make it through a playoff run and extended playoff run, I'll believe it when I see it. Unfortunately, you'll be able to be wrong there. But yeah, it is important. The, so I have a different one later that we'll talk about about the old lions, but they kind of like the more in their prime. The mid lions. And that those players, you know, that they didn't have that big 2024. Honestly, and this isn't as big a thread. Either in the NBA or in international play. I want to talk about the Olympics later on. But yeah, you'll get to that a pretty damn good Olympics. But he did. But in terms of like burnishing his like all-timer reputation, like I don't think that it, you know, it, to me, it helped, but it didn't, it didn't, like, I don't think it changed. Now, if if Serbia beats USA, yeah, you can go ahead and burnish away. But, well, and also the fact that the bucks have kind of just like, and they've made a little bit of noise. They won the NBA Cup. But I don't think anyone is viewing them as a serious championship threat right now, whereas last year of this time, I think people did see them that way. I did think that they could be right there with the Celtics. Now, I mean, the bucks are their own story with their playoff run. And like they fired Adrian Griffin, their first year head coach, and hired Doc Rivers. Like all those are big stories. But in the end, they've just sort of started to fade away along the lines of some of these other teams that have begun to fade away as well. I want to go to one that connects with me. Yokich was one of the focal points in the last topic. But a team that is connected with them, which is the Minnesota Timberwolves. And Minnesota, having their surprising run beating Denver, and they're making it to the Western Conference Finals where they fell to the Dallas Mavericks, that they're, they're one huge, they're one huge part of the story of the 2024 playoffs with that. But then you add in on top of that Minnesota ownership drama being an important focal point dynamic that is ongoing, that is not yet resolved. And how that is affected potentially their willingness to spend, especially on the heels of their team success last year. And then them being a part of this massive trade during the off season, where Carl Anthony Townes sent to the New York Knicks for Julius Randall and Dante DiVincenzo. So for me, Minnesota, they had their hands in a couple of different pots, and that makes them one of the biggest stories of the year. Oh, absolutely. And I mean, the fact that they vanquished the defending champions of Denver Nuggets, maybe the Denver Nuggets win the championship if Minnesota doesn't do that to them. And they participated in one of the best playoff series that we've seen in years. And Anthony Edwards announced himself as really getting into the national consciousness. And they also fit in with the whole second apron. Like, do they move Carl Anthony Townes if it's not for the new CBA? And also, it's probably something that doesn't get talked about enough, not only the second apron, but the luxury tax starting next year is way more draconian. And then the repeater tax is even more ridiculous. Like where it's just, you kind of got to be insane from a money standpoint. I have, I have, I have another bullet point for the story on that general front, but you're right. I mean, that's it's a huge part of the end. And the wolves are a great focal point when you consider the success that they had, but also like that those decisions are totally different in the new world. Yeah, so that they are the poster children in some ways for some of these new issues and ended up trading away. Maybe their second best player, at least going forward. I don't think Townes was not their second best player last year. I thought that was Rudy Gobert and his impact, he certainly has been missed. I still think the wolves may be heard from this season, but their rapid rise, and then kind of taking a step back immediately for a team that had just risen. Yeah, maybe the, the plexiglass principle should be a, it could be a story of some of these things that I really took a step forward last year and then fell back. And then in the case of Memphis, a team that really took a step back and then took a step forward again, albeit with some different personnel and systems. But yeah, that's a huge one. This is a big one for me. We started off with hope last season with the 65 game rule and we saw one of the least injured seasons basically through the all-star break that we've seen. Or maybe you can say through, indeed, hurting himself in late January and that fateful night in Golden State. And, but then the injuries started coming and they did not stop. And we ended up having what is probably the second most injured playoffs that we've had. And that led to just a lot of really bad series, unwatchable series, I would say, because the teams were just shells of themselves. So each playoffs has 15 series of those. Thunder pals, unwatchable, sign was out. Mads clippers, unwatchable, Kawai was out. Nick Sixers, watchable, but also very much impacted by the injury to Joel. So I would put that in, in that kind of his watchable, but it also, like, I think- Massively affected. Yeah, massively affected. Pacers, bucks. The honest didn't play it all day. Missing Amy, he was hobbled. So we're at four series now. Cabs magic, maybe unwatchable regardless of whether it'd been healthy or not. But Jared Allen goes out with the rib, I think it was in game five. I don't know if he's a big enough guy to say that it wasn't watchable, but then, of course, Cleveland by midway through their series against the Celtics. Down of a Mitchell is out. That series was totally unwatchable by the end. Celtics Heat, no rosier, no butler, totally unwatchable. So the whole first round had two series, Suns, Suns Wolves, which would end up being a sweep. Which was a swing. And Nugget's Lakers and Nick, Nick's Sixers was definitely watchable, but it was impacted. And then the next round, Pacers, Knicks, Knicks were totally destroyed by the end of it. Celtics Cavaliers talked about them. So both those series were impacted. Then Celtics Pacers, obviously, as well, Hal Burton goes down. And then Celtics Mads was at least, Luca was hurt. Not enough to really count in this analysis. Like, if you're healthy, you got it. It's got to probably count to at least be out there. So that is nine of the 15 series where, you know, I won't say they're unwatchable, but I is an analyst whose job is to watch this. I was almost like man too. I really have to watch this. Like, everyone knows what's going to happen in this series. Like, almost essentially pre-ordained due to the injury situation. And that's, that's really bad. That is really bad. And you did at least have some series and you had more than 50% of the series after the first round, in part just because the teams that were injured just got knocked out. And you did at least, I would tell you there were two series that I would consider to be really good series last year of like high level teams that also weren't injured and played really competitive games. That would be Mavs Thunder and Wolves Nuggets. So that's, that's not enough. You need more and that's actually more than we've had in some recent years. In terms like really competitive series that you're like, wow, that was awesome. They went back and forth that you just want to think about. Like, what was and I guess, you know, six, six was Nix. It was three one, by the way, but yeah, some of the individual games were ridiculous so fine. I'll give you, there was a lot of star power on that even though I'm beat to a start. So I'll give you three series. Although I wouldn't consider Nix sixers to be like incredibly high level of basketball. That's a problem for the league. And it's, it seems like you didn't have that much of an issue with that stuff in 23, which also was not like 23 basically didn't have any great playoff series at all. Other than Celtics Heat, which was ruined in game seven by Jason Daydom getting hurt. So yeah, that, that is a problem. I like that to me is one of, it's got to be in the top three. It's a huge story. And the questions about how you modify that, how you can rectify it other than hope and prayer is, is a challenging one for the league to handle. And you and I both think it should be reducing the number of games in this regular season as a way to potentially ease that burden. But it isn't, it's something that the league is going to have to consider. It's great news that they have this TV rights deal locked in. So in terms of the revenue perspective, it won't be as big of an impact, but it is a, a very real concern. Getting more and better quality sleep is the number one thing that I think you can do to improve your happiness and mental health. Just think about those days that you wake up 90 minutes before you want to. You're tossing and turning your backs a little sore. How does that day go for you? For me, I find myself a little more irritable. It takes me longer to get through tasks. 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And any lux or elite mattress order comes with a free bedding bundle, which is two dream pillows, a sheet set and mattress protector. Visit helixsleep.com/capspace now and start shopping. Don't forget that slash cap space URL to let them know that you came from us. Strapping because WWE Monday Night Raw is coming to Netflix. I'm WWE superstar Liv Morgan. And I've got huge news for the WWE Universe, starting January 6th. All the clothes lining, power driving, power bombing action you live for. Now comes you live on Netflix. So come step into the ring and stream WWE Raw live, premiering Monday, January 6th, only on Netflix. All right, what else you got here? My next one. So which one my predictions was although I'll phrase it the way that I did then, which was number five was the Celtics parentheses winner lose. And so when we at the end of 2023, the Boston Celtics were had just lost in the NBA finals to the Warriors in the most recent finals. And oh, sorry, no, that was second most recent because the Nuggets Lakers, I'll point it on that later, the Nuggets series. But so Boston had they'd been a recent NBA finalist and they'd require Kristops for Zingus. They were 26 and six with a plus 11 cleaning the glass net rating. Which was best in the league by about a point per 100 over the Sixers. And so they went in with a lot of with a lot of hype. And it was an unusual playoff run because they faced some injured opponents, the Heat and the Cavs, most notably. But when you think about Boston's calendar year 2024, it's extremely impressive. I mean, they ran through the NBA playoffs. They had a dominant finals performance. Jason Tatum stayed in the MVP race, both the end of that year and the beginning of this year. And they're still, you know, they're in the mix again. I still have them as the team to beat the NBA. And so they are one of the biggest stories, especially when this this calendar year included them getting over the hump and winning their first championship with this group. I wish they were a bigger story, honestly. But because of their ridiculously easy path through the East, I'm still left really wondering about what happens at Dallas. I thought Dallas could have played better. Like Boston definitely dominated them. Like they certainly earned the championship. You can only go through the group that you're going to go through and they lost two games. Are they lose one to Cleveland? They did, didn't they? Yeah. But whatever, fine. Fine. They were 16 and three. That's going 16 and three against just a normal regular season schedule is a good run. Like you can't say that they didn't play well enough last year. But they also didn't really face anybody. And they have gone out and dominated again this year. And they do a lot of things that are really, really hard to deal with. They also don't have like that one absolutely ascended star. And one of the things that I noted about the Celtics is like, can the ensemble cast do it? And they certainly did. And they went up against a guy who's one of the top stars in Luca. And they beat him up pretty bad. But I'm still, what they did last year needs more validation for me when on the surface, you're like, well, obviously one of the top teams of all time. 16 and three in the playoffs and a crazy double-digit net rating. And no, it was even remotely close to the East and yeah, but they just didn't play enough teams for me to really feel like they're on that level. And so there they'll be one of my biggest, maybe my biggest story of 2025 to see what's going to happen with them and whether because we haven't had a repeat champion in forever and along those lines. Well, well, actually before we move on from the Celtics, I have a couple of other things that are important for their 2024 one. We had Joe Missoul was in his first year as a coach. We hadn't seen him in the playoff cauldron. He did an extremely good job, benefited from circumstances. Particularly in the Dallas series, I thought he was awesome. And then the other one, which was one of my notes in the top stories for 2024 was, I put it as ownership's willingness to spend, but in hindsight now it's ownership's willingness to stay owners. But the Boston being up for sale, it hasn't resolved in 2024. It looks like it'll be early 2025. But that's another huge part of the NBA's financial picture. And everything else is what what the one of the marquee franchises goes for because they're shockingly on the market. So as the Celtics ascended, the Denver Nuggets, who we thought maybe were on the path to being one of the dominant teams. They were my championship favorite as of this time last year. They fell off and you thought, all right, maybe they just got a bad matchup in the wolves and they just they blew it. They got tired. They were up 20 in game seven. Now, of course, they also went down O2 in that series and we're getting blown out. And then they went up 3-2 and the wolves came back. And it was an incredible yo-yo of a series. But you're like, OK, maybe they're going to come back with a vengeance this year. And then Jamal Murray has just an atrocious Olympics. And he's really, really targeted at beginning of the Pistons tonight. But I'm not going to pronounce him back after that. And you'll get just looked as good as ever. But then they also let KCP go, which I don't think that's in the top four or five reasons why they haven't played very well in this regular season so far. But it looks like they are more on the downside and they're going to need to make a move or do something to maximize the probably couple of years that Nicola Yokich has left as an absolute top level force. And we just we thought for sure that nuggets were going to be right in the thick of things. We'd get to the finals. It was really hard to see in the West like what team was going to beat them. Like they they were so tested. They're so dominant the previous year also didn't play anybody by the way. Like kind of sucks when you just have like the NBA champion of the last two years. The nuggets didn't play a single real series. And then the Celtics played one the champion played one real series over a two year period. That's not great now for the league. So yeah, that's uh but that's huge that just that they're kind of like you're wondering what their path is back to like true championship convention. I'm not totally ruling them out, but they're not a favorite at all right now. And the team with the best player in the world is always a massive story. That is that is the rule here, especially when they are championship relevant, which the nuggets are even if they're not our favorites to win it right now. And so you and anytime, you know, Nicola Yokich or whoever usurps him whenever that happens, they're a massive story. And so for Denver to get knocked out in the second round. And there were parts of that that felt like a perfect storm. Tim Connolly jumping over building his team with an eye for Denver and all that. But then as you mentioned, that dovetailing with what has been a very disappointing start to the 24-25 season like that makes Denver's 2024 as a whole look even worse. And there are some very real concerns for I mean, we've seen this espoused a little bit publicly recently for where this team is and where this team is going. And so when you consider that a year ago they even if they were the defending champions and they were still looking like a force in the Western Conference to go from that high to this is part of the reason why looking at this in a calendar year perspective is useful because you get a little bit of a different frame of reference here. What's your next one? I want to set a little bit of a table here. And you know, I love these big picture things. A year ago when we did this, LeBron James and the Lakers had just made the Western Conference finals where they fell to the nuggets. Stefan Curry was a year off of a championship while LeBron had a big NBA Cup winning that and LeBron actually was called the NCS tournament then. NCS tournament and technically I believe that did actually resolve in 2023. But during kind of close to it and Curry was year off title and both those gentlemen and I would add Kevin Durant into this had memorable performances in the Olympics, especially to me Kevin Durant, I don't want that to fall by the wayside. But the story that I have in here is are the old lions, however, we're going to define that grouping. Are they no longer title relevant? And the Warriors I think are decidedly fine. The Lakers don't seem to have real title equity. And then if you want to include Kevin Durant, the Suns probably don't. The I've we broadcast their game on Friday. I saw them in person on Saturday. And then if you want to you want to expand even further, James Harden, the Clippers, which I want to talk about them separately, but the these players that have been. Why but my is like, not quite in that group, but relatively close to it. His knees are for sure. And so I think that these players who are still the most buzzy in the league, you could see that with the not that I focus on TV ratings, but the Christmas Day ratings, I think a big part of that is the Warriors, Lakers stuff. That the possibility that those players who have been dominating attention and fan interest for over a decade now, that they might not figure into the last couple of rounds of the playoffs, for at least as the best player for the remainder of their careers, I think is a huge story. Another story we can focus in on is this new CBA, which we've now been in for a year and a half, but the true strictures of the second apron began this year in terms of having draft picks frozen and where you can't aggregate in the second apron. And once you're above the first apron, you can't take in more than you send out unless you do some crazy self-attreat exceptions and you get hard-capped at the first apron in any trade in which you take back more money than you send out, no matter where it occurs. There are also more flexibility on extensions, 140% instead 120% of prior salary for most guys. The 65-game rule is part of that. It's been a big story for a lot of people and certainly a team like the Suns might have been able to make a move if they could aggregate together salary. And you had some of these teams that couldn't even use the tax mid-level to sign a player, although I mean the Suns got some pretty good guys for just the straight minimum. Kind of makes you think that maybe the tax mid-level wasn't all that important to begin with. I still think it's maybe a little bit of an oversold story. It's also quite frankly a very convenient excuse. Well, so I'm going to differentiate here. So I referred to my shorthand for this was the new CBA showing its teeth. And I did not think of this in terms of the second apron. For me, it's the hard caps. I think that's the big story here. Well, yeah, I think of the second apron that's one of them, yeah. But it's the idea that these teams, you know, that you can't at a lower threshold, that you can't take on any more money than you send out. That has really affected certain trades. And so there's just its movement is harder. It's trickier, it's stickier. And I think we're going to see a lot of ripples of that at the 2025 trade deadline, which of course is not within this purview. And the new CBA did not prevent big moves from happening. We saw the Mikhail Bridges trade. We saw currently at the new towns, both of whom got acquired by the same team. We'll talk about them in a little bit, but it will narrow certain paths. I mean, you could even think about that in terms of the like the Clippers reported negotiations with the Warriors on Paul George. And so I think that there will be circumstances, you know, that teams are negotiating with fewer potential viable trade partners. And will that reduce the number of trades? Maybe, maybe not. Will it reduce the returns in some of those trades? I'm very confident that them. Yeah, and you could say that the Clippers didn't resign PG because of the second April and that's at least what they claim. But certainly knowing that Kawai was in the state that he was in, I think had more to do with that, that's not something that they wanted to point to at that time. I think if they felt they were championship contenders, they would have resigned him. It really was more about not being a contender. I think they should have still signed him and then tried to move him later. But they were concerned about getting stuck with him. Like there's certainly a reasonable position there. That's just not one that I entirely agreed with. But yeah, to me, I'm not sure that it's a massive story yet because it will become a massive story. If the Boston Celtics just have to be broken up after two years, if the Knicks just have to be broken up, if a team decides, okay, after two years in the second apron, like we just can't deal with our draft pick getting pushed to the to be in the second apron for a third year. We just can't do that because our draft pick, we pushed the end of the first round. That's when I'll say it's a really big story. I don't think it's there yet. I don't think that it's the second apron has really made a huge difference for championship contenders that are just not contenders anymore because of that. And even the Knicks, right? Like they had this whole domino effect with Isaiah Hartenstein leaving. And that's a big part of why they had to acquire towns. But that was just something that had always been there. That was an early bird rights situation. It didn't have anything to do with the apron situation. Not particularly. I mean, they maybe they could have theoretically fudged things a little bit. They didn't know how much wiggle they were going to have. But yeah, I agree with you. I think that I don't think it's going to make my top three, but it is an important story of kind of where things are and what it could be doing. And it's also hard in the in the abstract because it's a lot of the story of this is the deals that the discussions and the deals that don't happen. And so are we going to get that reporting from the source reporters of like, these teams would have been interested, but they couldn't make something work? Like probably not. Like that's not really the way these things generally go. I kind of wish the Olympics were a bigger story. Well, I do want to say one other thing on this. Oh, sure, sure. Uh, the 65 game rule, like that may have forever altered the someone's career in tires, Albert, but now you'll never know that for sure. Maybe his hamstring was fucked the moment he heard it the first time, but he did try to come back in like nine games or something. And then he heard it again and just he's never been the same since then. And he clearly pushed hard to come back so he could make an extra 40 million dollars due to the 65 game rule and being able to make all NBA, which he did and he deserved. But that's and the fact that they still have it. I don't love that either. But for a guy's career to a decent possibility that it was forever altered because of that rule, like that just really sucks. It does and we could potentially see more of those sorts of situations because the financial incentives are very real. And, you know, those are conversations that happen happen between players and the representation and their teams. But the incentives are aligned for there to be some perverse incentives and for guys to play heard and potentially exacerbate injuries because you would lose a lot of money. And also the the other weird thing about how 65 affects things is that it will also at times lead to players who are less deserving, potentially getting additional eligibility and that that could potentially change teams financial features than everything else. We we didn't see that a ton as I recall it last year. Yeah, because everyone like was weirdly very healthy for the first 60 percent of the season. But like for example, this year seems basically a certainty that Luca Donchich will not be eligible for all NBA and so that means that somebody will theoretically get the spot. I'm not saying he would have definitively made it even if the line was not existed in your 55 or whatever. But it is I'm really happy you brought that up because we've already seen it affect behavior. And as you mentioned, potentially affect outcomes. Strapping because WWE Monday Night Raw is coming to Netflix. I'm WWE superstar Liv Morgan and I've got huge news for the WWE Universe. Starting January 6th, all the clothes lining, power-driving, power-bombing action you live for. Now comes you live on Netflix. So come step into the ring and swing WWE Raw Live, premiering Monday, January 6th, only on Netflix. Where'd you get those shoes? Easy. They're from DSW. Because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now. You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour. The boots, the turn-grow-shriyles into runways. And all the styles that show off the many sides of you. From daydreamer to multitasker and everything in between. Because you do it all in really great shoes. Find a shoe for every you at your DSW store or DSW.com. Yeah, you're going to start to talk about the Olympics. Yeah, I think that the Olympics, I love international basketball as you do. I thought it, you know, there was an opportunity for it to be a bigger story, especially if somebody had a breakout. But the way that I phrased it was even if the US is weaker, which I believe they will be in the future, depending on who plays in Los Angeles and beyond. But kind of who is even a threat? Like it was just a strange Olympics from that respect of like, okay, you know, you had teams that some teams had a nice run and there were some competitive games. But the idea of like a looming real threat. I mean, I think that France is going to be there in time with the ascendants of Victor Wombanyama and some of these other exciting young guys that they've had drafted in recent years. But I didn't walk away from that Olympics thinking, oh, I'm really amped up to see this team face team USA four years from now. I'm surprised you said that to me, this was the biggest the Olympics could ever be. Maybe you would say if there's just some other like truly stacked team going up against the US, but Steph Curry, LeBron James basically and Kevin Durant, the three biggest stars, all playing together for the first time. Steph Curry had the two most memorable performances in Olympic basketball history, in terms like individual games. Like, you know, Kobe had like a really awesome four minutes at the end of the 2008 gold medal. And Manu, he was great throughout. But in terms of just like moments, just indelible moments like Steph Curry. And particularly the way he, I mean, he basically, it's been very rare in international basketball that someone can just dominate in the way that he dominated with these crazy shots and crazy. Like international basketball is kind of like not really built that way. USA is generally the team that has that much talent. If they, if it's the guy on another team, teams can load up on him enough. That maybe that's not possible though. Obviously, Yokoch was awesome as well. But, and USA usually has so many guys, but they didn't play that. Like they, the fact that it also was just utterly necessary, his performance in both of those games to push them to win it. And so I think it was a huge story. I mean, and particularly for him to play with LeBron with KD and for those guys to finally all be like buddy, buddy, I think it was a really big story to me personally. I don't know how it could get bigger in part because I don't know that we're ever going to have players as big as those guys all playing well and still like barely winning. I mean, those guys played well individually on offense. The USA defense was so bad, but still. I think that's, I think for me, so the US part of it, of course, is a wonderful story. For me, it was the lack of a true foil. And you're right that they didn't. It's not like they were like the dream team and beaten everybody. I mean, Nicole Yocch is the best player like Serbia. I really, Serbia doesn't have like all these other awesome NBA players, but Donovan, which is good. But, I mean, they certainly gave you a script. They could have won. Yeah, I think for me, it was more and maybe this is, it'd be interesting. I haven't gone back and listened to any of our pods about it. That maybe it's the, you know, the hindsight determinism that for me, they were, yeah, they trailed Serbia and everything like that, but they, to me, the US. We're down like 15 in the fourth quarter, weren't they? I think it was 15 and they had this tour and come back. Like, international teams, like, don't come back from 15 in the fourth quarter, really. Yeah, maybe I am, maybe I am underselling that part of it. I mean, I, though, of course, the LeBron Steph, Katie, this is a huge story and all that type of thing. But for me, it was like, it was, it wasn't a weaker US roster, especially in terms of star power, but I thought they didn't play very well. I also thought they weren't necessarily coached for, I mean, I think it was a weaker, I mean, in terms of just like where the guys are in the NBA, it was a weaker roster. And so for, for the team, basically to me, that the, the, and maybe this is doing a disservice to the teams that threatened them, but it seemed to me, even with increased cohesion from some of the non-American teams, that it was the US playing, playing poorly, playing down to the level of their competition and then coming back rather than like a great test and the kind of things that we've seen in the past and, and maybe that's being unfair. I will acknowledge that possibility, but it was certainly fun to watch. Yeah, I will admit that you don't have an international team on the level of Spain in 2008 or 2012 or Argentina of those years or maybe, maybe even on the level of like Greece in those years. Um, I mean, but, but Yokich, of course, is way better than anyone who's on those teams. So maybe that's just something that we didn't account for. I mean, when Benyama might be closer though, international pocket soul and money were like unbelievable guys. See, I'm not gonna say when Benyama is better than those guys, but to piggyback on that Victor around this time last year, like just kind of started playing center and he had all these turnovers. They didn't have any guards on it on the team. They were just like historically bad. We're questioning whether San Antonio is really going to develop or Marita still have some questions about that. But nonetheless, Victor, when we talked about it on the show last year, I said if Victor and Marita isn't in all star consideration in second year, that's going to be a disappointment. I'd say he's there. I think he's, he's totally not doing it. Maybe exactly the way I expected on offense, although the three point shooting like might even give him more upside than anyone thought, but defensively, he's been everything that would have been hoped. He's been everything that would be hoped as a, as a passer and yeah, I mean, he's, he's right there. He's dragging this flawed spurts team to 500 and I think he's right on the path to looking like one of the all time great. So and that's when you get someone like that into the league, that's a huge story. It's a massive story. And especially, and I don't, I didn't put this as one of my bold points, but the overall relative dearth of quality in the last couple of drafts. I mean, yeah. That was one of mine. Yeah. I mean, the rest of the 23 draft and the 24 draft had nobody in our top in my top 12. I think yours too, other than Victor. Yeah. I believe that's correct on mine as well. And so and top prospects. And so I think that when there's a lot, you kind of for the future of the league on when Banyamah shoulders, but he has delivered a new brought up like the threshold which you had put, which was right about him being an all star. I mean, we both had him as an all NBA level a player in our first set of awards and I haven't done my work on it yet, but I believe he'll be there again. You know, I think this defensive player of the year, bona fides are still extremely strong. And he's helped, you know, this fascinating offensive player. And he also, you know, as a calendar year, he was of course a part of the French Olympic team. And now the Spurs went from being a work in progress to being surprisingly relevant. And so and when Banyamah has, of course, been a core part of that. This isn't him being long for the ride. This is him driving the bus. And so yeah, when Banyamah is a massive story, he, you know, hopefully he will get some company and that's one of the stories of 2025 when we'll discuss that at a later date. But he, yeah, he's a huge story and the future of the league and everything else like that. Well, and the biggest thing maybe of any of this is we haven't even thought about the injury risk with him. He's always wonder of someone at his size. You always wonder about any player in the NBA at this point. But he hasn't had even a whiff of like an injury scare or anything like that. Yeah, I mean, the back stuff is a little scary, but not, not anything. But that feels like he fell in like a specific way that I, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll go to another young star, less young, but still young. And that is Shaquille to Sol Xander's descendants. And if we want to group this together with the Thunder, I think those are separate stories, but they're, of course, deeply connected and yeah, I mean, well, it's probably separate stories because their entire podcast that are devoted all season to just discussing who's going to win MVP. So obviously that should be its own story. Just just kidding, guys. I listen to every episode. That's how I know that you talk about MVP a lot. And so Shaquille to Sol Xander a year ago, I mean, he was definitely, I mean, I think I had him second in the MVP in the words that we had done so far, but we were wondering where things were going with him. He burnished all of those credentials through the rest of the 23 24 season. And you know, his playoff run was not like he wasn't the reason that the Thunder fell to the Mavericks. In my opinion, I thought he played very well. I thought, and I, you know, we had this extended discussion in our top players podcast with you, John and I, that about like kind of, I was a little risk averse with him and wondering where it would go. And he was, of course, assuaged those concerns and he has delivered again this year. And so for a group that, you know, kind of a younger players overall that I think has been a little disappointing in terms of like being the the guys on great teams, one player who has not is Shaquille to Sol Xander. Yeah, really the, the one guy who has ascended into the discussion of being a top three player in the NBA over this last year, certainly he would reach that level for the start of last year, but you wondered whether it was an operation or not and whether he'd be able to perform the playoffs. And I certainly think he performed well enough, especially compared to some of the other guys in the playoffs to validate that lofty level. And we could talk about the Thunder too, that they, again, like they pushed through to the number one, so I think it was pretty clear they're going to be awesome at this point last year, but they are, then they make the trade for heart and shining Caruso, I mean, they were very, very close and they could have been the NBA champion last year. It's if she goes to Sol Xander's hand, doesn't come off of that PJ Washington three point or onto his arm, or he knocks the ball out of PJ Washington's hands before he hits his hand, the Thunder have a game seven at home, which Lucas pretty good in game sevens, but they had. Including sevens on the road. Yeah. And they were up big in that game too, and, and who knows what happened with them in Minnesota? Like I would have given them, you know, 25% chance of winning at maybe going forward, but. And then of course, they make all these other moves this off season, and they still have just incredible amount of flexibility, like unless Shay gets hurt, it's just impossible to imagine them not being a top three seed in the West for the next five years, at least. And the way that this last year has affected our thinking on the rest of their young guys, Jalen Williams has continued to grow, Chet Holmgren has been hurt, but when he's been healthy, he has been fantastic, you know, defensive player, saw some of his warts offensively in that series against the Mavericks, but he has a lot of time to improve. And as you mentioned, Sam Presti and the Thunder having the young talent they do, but also the resources that they still have, you know, they haven't taken anything out of their word chest. They were able to get Alex Crusoe just by sending away Josh Gitti, and that's another big reason the Thunder were a huge story is they traded away one of their exciting young players for somebody else, and to still have all of those first-round picks to still have at least some salary flexibility, though they have used a lot of it for a number of different things, is that makes them not only a huge story of 24, but of 25. And to it's we need to appreciate when a team, especially a young team, and it's so funny because the Thunder did this a little over a decade ago, when a team rises to the level of title three, that is a special place. It's a special place for any team to get to, but it's even more special when it's a team that we expect to be there for five plus years, self permitting. Well, and when they're also just from a cap and talent and asset standpoint, in one of maybe the five best circumstances of all time, where they are right now, or maybe you could say that retroactively back to last summer along those lines to run through a few quick hitters here, the other young teams that have ascended, and it's interesting because around the time of 21, 22, one of the biggest things that we got asked was, there are four teams that were rebuilding at that time. OKC, Houston, Detroit, and Orlando were the big four that right in that period had really leaned into tanking and rebuilding, and we got asked for a lot who had the best opportunity there, and Shaco's Alexander was the best piece, so I usually would say OKC, and they probably the best organization, and they appeared to have the most assets. Houston, you didn't quite know where they were going, but in the last year, the Houston Rockets now solidified themselves, you'd think, as a top six playoff team in the last still a long way to go on that. And then the Orlando Magic pushed through a team, nobody really thought it was going to be a playoff threat to be actually the five seed last year. And even without their two best players for stretches this year, they've been very competent. Almost the issue on these really good regular season coach, and they're one of the best defenses. And so certainly the magic our team that has emerged as well, there are a lot of similarities, I would say, between Houston and Orlando at this point in time, but as teams that are just really hard to play against every night, defensively focused, aggressive coaches who demand effort every single night, and teams that are just going to be there for, I don't know, the next five years, you would think if not more, and of course, each of those teams, whether it's your internal growth or potentially making trades more Houston with respect to the latter, are going to be very involved in upgrading their teams as well. So that's another big story. And then Detroit, they're kind of their own thing. We should probably hit on everything that's happened to them briefly. Yeah, I mean, you have the falling apart towards the end of last season, firing money, Williams, with so much money left on his contract, changing general managers, adding a bunch of different pieces, both of the trade deadline and in the offseason, and then they're pushed towards the play. And I guess you'd say towards potential relevance, they're 14 and 18 as we record this. And yeah, I mean, they're not at the established level of play of the other three teams that you brought up. OKC, Houston and Orlando, but they're at least closer to those teams than they were a year. Drop in because WWE Monday Night Raw is coming to Netflix, I'm WWE superstar Liv Morgan, and I've got huge news for the WWE Universe. Starting January 6, all the clotheslining, power-driving, power-bombing action you live for, now comes you live on Netflix. So come step into the ring and swing WWE Raw live, premiering Monday, January 6, only on Netflix. Where'd you get those shoots? Easy. They're from DSW because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now. You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour. The boots, the turn grocery isles into runways, and all the styles that show off the many sides of you, from daydreamer to multitasker and everything in between because you do it all in really great shoes. What else you got? I want to do some quick hitters on a couple of teams in the East. You talked about the young teams, and I'm really happy we did that. But the New York Knicks, they, the way I put it is the Knicks going all in. And so they, you know, they made it to the second round of the playoffs last year and then got hurt and got dispatched by the Pacers. Then after Jalen Brunson was an MVP, you know, ballot player was, you know, I don't think he was candidate to win the actual word. They bring it. They spend a ton of their capital to bring in fellow Villanova player, Mikhail Bridges, and then they send shockwaves through the NBA by bringing in Carl Anthony Towns for Julius Randall and Don C. G. Vincenzo. And then for the start of this year, we brought up the stat on the NBA strategy stream that they have one of the best starting five points per game, combined points per game in NBA history, even if it's through about less than half a season. But also second and offense fifth, including the glass net rating 22 and 10 on the season. So the Knicks overhaul, the Knicks potentially being a competitive team in these huge story. Yeah. And also they, a lot of the cap machinations and it all seems like maybe they should be a bigger story. We will find out that'll be maybe a more of one looking ahead, because we were kind of robbed of seeing them against the Celtics with their healthy team. I don't know what it would have looked like against the Celtics without pausing us, but they ended up getting hurt as well. A few other quick hitters. The end of the Zion era in New Orleans, I mean, it's basically done at this point. And whether it's him not playing that well, we did see that one flash in the playing game, who's going to lead their comeback and he's on 40 points and then he hurts the hamstring yet again, then he hurts it yet again this season. And everybody else gets injured and the pells are sitting on five wins right now. And like, and this is after they made a win now trade this off season that I wasn't even that far that much against I wasn't against it actually at all to get to John T. Murray. And then there was the Brandon Ingram drama, but the pells we thought they would be a relevant team. And they were also very, very close to making it into the top six. And then they are, Zion gets hurt. They're summarily dispatched to just what a fall for this team. And it started with so much promise in 2019, preparing Zion and Ingram. And it just finally, I think you just have to accept that it's just not going to happen for this team. And the chances of them winning a playoff series with this group is, I mean, I don't know what 10% right now. Well, I mean, except for the possibility that they get major reinforcements in the 2025 draft and that player propels them. The idea that that they're yeah, when I say this group, I mean, I mean, you know, Zion Ingram, CJ, exactly, that's completely fair. On a more positive note, the Cleveland Cavaliers, they made it in the playoffs. They squeaked by the magic in the first round. Then fire, JB Bigger staff, hire Kenny Atkinson, end up keeping Donovan Mitchell, getting him to sign the extension. And then they have been statistically the best team in the NBA so far in the first third of the 2024, 2025 regular season, plus 12.4, clean the glass net rating, 27 and four record. And so for them to keep it together, to change coaches and to have it succeed the way it has, I mean, they can't be one of, to me, one of the five biggest stories, just because they're in need to be more results. But them being a big part of the story of the NBA for this year in terms of the, especially this regular season, that matters a lot. Another thing that matters is that the Dallas Mavericks made it to the NBA finals and they were looking pretty dead in the water. Didn't really have much of a defense last year. The lively pick was looking good, but then they make some trade deadline deals that I was not that high on. They bring in Gafford and PJ Washington and basically since that point, even as late as March last year in that pod, we did with Zach Lowe. I took Luca Donch. It's pretty high in the draft of guys who might, stars who might be on different teams by the end of the 24 or the beginning of the 25, 26 season. And there's no thought that that could possibly happen at this point. Now, let's hope that Lucas casting doesn't become a permanent issue, but the thought was like they didn't have that obvious of a path, Kyrie has been unbelievable for them. That was a brilliant trade and they've built, I mean, to me, what looked like the second best team in the West when healthy this year and they made the finals last year, there's really, I don't think anyone had them in the finals at this point. So their emergence and the idea again, that is if they, Kyrie might age out at least a little bit, but they do have some other guys behind him and the thought that for the next two, three years, at least that they'll be in the conversation every year that they don't have to worry about losing Luca, like that is that's massive. It is. And the effects for the Western Conference, the effects for the NBA of the Mavericks being this good. Like, as you said, that probably means Luke Donchich's eyes are not wandering during this part where we don't know when the peak of his powers is going to be, but it very well might be in the next couple of years. And so the fact that he likely will be a Dallas Maverick for the entirety of that time is very exciting. And, you know, as much as I'd be happy with Luca anywhere, then the Mavericks, him being there and them being good is significant. The Philadelphia 76ers, I mean, not all of Joelle Embiid's 23/24 season is covered by the calendar year 2024, but then them losing in the first round. But Darryl Murray's bet on maintaining cap space. They eventually get Paula George while retaining Embiid and Tyreys Maxi, Tyreys Maxi of course the part of their 2024 as well, and then building around it. And the regular season so far has not gone exactly the way they expect, the way they've wanted, but they're still huge wave makers over the year. Yeah, wave makers, but eventually they kind of settled into common. The team just hasn't done enough on the floor. Yeah, if Darryl's big bet on Paula George, it paid off. And we're talking about a team that's 25 and 10 right now or something or 21 and eight. And Joelle was healthy again and everything was looking good like they may still be heard from but as of right now, I mean, they're more of a story for their disappointments over the last year. And but really it's kind of more about Joelle, maybe even than the whole team and kind of hit on that. All right. I think that's he's kind of the bigger issue that he's just not that guy and it looks like he may never be again, which obviously really sucks. The brining LeBron thing, it happened. It did happen on the Lakers. We didn't know if that would happen at this at this point that you would get drafted. We thought maybe in LeBron would go to a team and say draft by son as it turned out. It was quite perdained that Brian would come to the Lakers and it was a big story. And you know, you still see discussion of what Bronnie is doing in the G League, but it's actually been like, yeah, the LeBron playing with the sun. That was awesome. But Bronnie, I was expected, hasn't done enough to where you see them playing together hardly at all. And if you're not going to see that, then it's going to be a non-story. So it seemed like it was going to be massive, but it's like, now that it's over, it doesn't really seem to be affecting anything over the team doing much right now. It isn't as big a story, but I will say as kind of a, you know, you and I obviously have a different connection to the NBA than other people. But I have been asked more about the Bronnie LeBron thing by people in my life who aren't as ingrained in the NBA as you and I are as anything. I've been asked about Bronnie far more than Yochitch, far more than the Celtics who won the championship last year. It's just, it's a story that fascinates a lot of people. And so I hope that at, there's a moment in time when Bronnie's play makes this an even more fascinating thing rather than more of a curiosity. But it did captivate a group of people. And I mean, you and I are both fathers. It was something that affected me too. It's just that it hasn't had the basketball ramifications that in an ideal world could have even if we didn't expect it based on how things were headed going into the draft. Real quick hitters. Yeah. I have a quick hitter that I want to. Either way, I've just put this briefly, I don't want to spend a ton of time on it. The West being way better than the East again. Just the depth of quality of the Western Conference, how that affects team building, how that affects everything. And I mean, I have always drawn the ripple effects here, starting with ownership and working their way down. But it's looking like it's a lot, it's a whole hell of a lot harder to make the playoffs, to play in in the Western Conference and the Eastern Conference. And that is more important than I think a lot of people give it credit. Yeah. And as you've also talked about too, the clarity that it can give the teams, your Portland's and Utah's that are not in playoff contention and that they could know that early on. It can be useful also. I could piggyback on that. And there are just a lot of bad teams that appear totally directionless right now. Like the Toronto Raptors are seven and 24. And I think maybe they just traded Siakum. No, they had, they had, I think that happened right after we recorded this last year. But, but so they move on from Siakum and an obi. They get back, not really future assets. They get back players, young players to build around. We just haven't seen all those guys together. Like they, the pernal trade was a complete disaster. They lost their draft pick. Oh, yeah, we forgot when the, with the wolves to discuss the Dillingham trade. That was like storyline number eight with them, which was one of the most fascinating trades we've seen in a long time. That actually is probably an artifact of the second apron as well that they make that deal. But yeah. So Toronto is one Chicago are they sort of moved on from Caruso and Durozen, but didn't get anything for him. Like Josh Giddy's not looking like a foundational piece in the slightest. That was a terrible trade. Did hit a big three against the Bucks on Saturday. And Atlanta looked like they were in a little more limbo, but the, the Murray trade they got to ice and day. Let's say I've made some noise. Obviously they made it to the NBA cup semi final and, but also like Trey Young's not playing that well this year. Like if you're, if you were 2021 trade, we might be talking about them as maybe makes a noise, but you know, they'll all right, fine. The Hawks are still totally in limbo there without their pick the next three years. The Utah Jazz don't trade marketing, but they also have just been totally uncompetitive this year. The Portland trailblazers scoot and sharp and shown a few signs lately, but largely the trailblazers don't have any kind of foundational piece for their rebuild. Well, and, and Nate, I think that this connects with the story we brought up earlier, which is the lack of non Wienbanyama super young town in the league, which is that we don't have enough tent poles for there to be enough tents. Like that is the, the challenge right now. And so hopefully that changes with the 2025 draft or the ascendance of some of these other guys. But, and I mean, another kind of connected part of that, I'm not saying these guys were going to be stars is that some of the best players in the 23 draft class haven't had great 2020 for 25 seasons, like Pajemski and like him Whitmore had some really nice moments. And those guys weren't going to change the league anyway, but it's, but just in terms of like these, these, like when we do young cores later on, later on in this season, like it's, it's going to be a different conversation than it has been in other points and best. The one team that was bad that really has gotten clarity since we last spoke on this subject is Brooklyn. They're the one team that really has chosen a direction and Utah and Portland kind of chose directions. Although then Portland hit the brakes and didn't illegal you turn with the Optia trade, and now they're just getting honked at by the cars going in both directions. But the Brooklyn at least regret like trading for their picks back, which I think is the first time I can recall a team doing that in this situation and also maybe a harbinger going forward and a blueprint for certain of these teams. Sons have been floated on that already because now Houston has these weightless. So and Brooklyn just sort of wheeling around to where they traded picks for stars. And they traded stars for picks and they traded those picks for their own picks back. That's a very interesting. And then of course they traded bridges as well, but and so there they at least have joined the ranks of the rebuilding and they'll get a high bet draft pick this season. But yeah, there are still a lot of these teams that are Detroit is still like they've been building. They're looking a little bit. Yeah, Charlotte is one where, yeah, LaMella like made one all star team, but you're also just not like they they're just a lot of teams where you're like, man, they they're not on the come the way an Orlando or a Houston or an OKC has been. And they don't really have the flexibility to hit the gas the way the rockets did with veterans. That's really just hard to do at this point. Yeah. So there's a lot of teams kind of in limbo. Let's see. I'm sure you want to talk about this one. The Clippers falling apart like the the official end. What was my my so my prediction for the top story of 2024? What I labeled it was somehow it's the Clippers. And my bullet points on that were how the 23 24 season goes that you know, Kawhi Kawhi had been playing. Well, and let's not forget. Yeah, I mean, they're in the middle of that 25 and five run when we spoke about this last year, they were looking like they were they're going to be heard from. And then and then of course they unfortunately they don't have it. They don't have a healthy playoff opportunity. And then Kawhi signs an extension. Paul George does not Paul George to parts in the 24 off season James Harden comes back during that off season. And then one of my bullet points was how far is bomber willing to go financially in the short and long term. It's hard to know for sure what parts of the second apron stuff was boogie man. What parts of it was real? What parts of it was informed by Kawhi Leonard's health situation and you of course still has not played since Paul George left the team and then also the new ring. And so the Clippers, I would say like I predicted they were going to be the biggest story but in part because each thing was a little bit of a thud they they did fall down on the list even though they were important and part of that's you know, positive stories are more fun than negative stories. But part of it is also just like even though they've been better with the guys they have left than I anticipated, they're just that doesn't fundamentally change who they are to me. One of the things I'm going to hit on this one already is the last one I've got I think is these all in teams and this plays into with the one you said about the old stars kind of becoming irrelevant and Giannis isn't that old but he also is maybe moving towards irrelevance and perhaps maybe even the bigger story here is that in there's just more parity in the league and you've got and Boston did win it with an ensemble cast that dominated and Luca did make it to the NBA finals he's a top five player but he was the only one of the top five players in the league to make the conference finals last year. Yokech is looking like he may be pushed back into it only semi relevance, Giannis is out it seems like unless things really change or he ends up on a new team. And so you've got all these teams that went all in Golden State as at least as doesn't owe a bunch of picks in the future but Phoenix Lakers Phoenix maybe the most all in team in history Miami another team that just looks like they don't matter and doesn't have a path like these are all just like around 500 ish teams that yeah they can win on every given night but they can also lose on any given night and that's just there are a lot of these teams that are just sort of like really trying to win they're pushing hard they have these stars some of them maybe a little past their prime but still pretty good or great in the case of Giannis and they're just like they're shredding water right now and the Knicks could be another team that's really more of an ensemble cast like they're not gonna have a top 5 player if they get into it the Celtics don't really want the star model there looking like that's not gonna work either so maybe this is we're entering a new era in which having the best guys just doesn't make as big of a difference as it used to or is that because of something new about the way the league is or just that the talent level is more compressed at the top I don't think that's necessarily case or just that teams have kind of screwed up in building these teams or if cheap dot or the rules there are a lot of different potential factors and I also want to tie in something else which I had on my list last year and I didn't write in as one of the stories for this year but I think it's worth discussing a little bit which was I the way I described it was is it a stable year for star movement and what I meant by that was really super star movement because I think that the Mikhail bridges and Carl Anthony towns trades rippling the way that they did and of course Paul George going to the Sixers that is a reminder of how different the landscape is now than it was because to me none of those players were top 10 and to me the of the players I had in the top 10 last year Paul George was in the same tier as my number 10 guy but like Jimmy Butler seems like the only player who's really has a chance of changing teams but he's not a top 10 player now like I wouldn't have him there at this juncture so the idea that they're they're just even though these teams are in that situation that there hasn't been any movement yet and there of course we'll discuss this in the 2025 context later on but that is a really striking thing that these guys are that the the best players seem pretty set in their spots at least for now but also not all of them are competing for the best regular season records and potentially not for titles. Yeah we'll see Janus is the one that looks like it could possibly happen but yeah you're talking more about yeah we have but it's I mean we also haven't you've always been able to talk yourself into them being a contender still or at least he has I mean I think I think if they flame out on the first round this year he'll finally see the writing on the wall and maybe maybe at that point he'll just want to stay and not care that he's done contending for titles there but his public comments have certainly been to the contrary so maybe that's what can change things and where he ends up that that certainly that'll be something on our our look ahead to 2025 to discuss. Who's the one that I appointed to last year and I phrase it as will offense either stop and remember last year we started out offensively at this torrid pace usually offense builds throughout the year there's more defense at the start of the year that wasn't the case you started with record setting levels right at the beginning and then you had all these crazy games 70 point games and from Joelle and Luca had one of the Hawks and so then Adam silver took off his glove and put his thumb on the scales of justice and the game started being called differently and by the playoffs people are complaining about like too many threes and and too much offense let me give you some of the averages from the 2024 playoffs teams average 105.6 points per game shot 35% from three over all playoff games that's a pretty crazy number like that that is not in that it's just way below what it was throughout the season now part of that could be because so many stars were hurt and just stars affect offense more than defense in most cases well Nate I can give you another stat on this because I happen to have this pulled it's a way I like to look at this so through the end of 2023 the clean the glass offensive rating like league average was 115.9 at this point this season it's 113.6 yeah so the answer is that it's not as crazy as it was and I think the league is better but I think we're in a very very good place in terms of the game play I think the people who are complaining about too many threes are just winers and the the solutions to it are crazy and would have all sorts of unintended consequences that actually could ruin the game instead of just giving you something to complain about to sure so I really hope that there and that'll be another thing for 2025 like is the league gonna do this too many three like they're gonna try like fuck up the game because people are complaining about this I really hope that doesn't happen well speaking of fucked up I guess well I was going to transition to the kings but I guess we have to actually pick our our top three for last year so I will go with the new tv deal to any playoff injury I mean again like that's like if we had more classic playoff series no one would be complaining about any of this stuff and also I think if more if the regular season meant more no one would be complaining about this stuff either the fact that the regular season doesn't mean that much and then you also have these teams jacking up it on threes oh this is the other step he's only shot 33 threes a game in the playoffs last year it's not very much by recent standards and certainly recent regular season standards and the percentage of threes 3.5 rate was actually it was a very slow pace playoffs so the 3.5 rate actually was like right about where it's been 39 percent so I think the 33 threes a game is maybe more a factor of the the officially low pace yeah probably more there's more fouling to that just lowered the overall pie of shots but I'm that's speculative I'd probably be on the scope of this podcast I should look that up okay so new tv deal the playoff too many injuries and let me pick another one here if you want to give me your first two my first two are the national tv deal and the Celtics I think winning the championship being to me the still the most talented team in the league like that's it that's and when they hadn't been before yeah I think and I'll echo your point your injuries playoffs however we want to define that kind of that overall injury because I had injuries the stars too that's not the same but they were parts of the same coin yeah so that's my number one tv deal b2 and the Celtics as I noted just didn't seem that big because they just weren't involved in only played one real playoff series last year but they have totally dominated they have dominated the conversation in terms of the way that they play with five out and just taking a ton of threes and really leaning into mazula ball so maybe maybe I'll throw that in with the idea of in the sale yeah and the sale yeah although that hasn't actually happened yet of course but maybe I'll dovetail them cheat a little bit and say the Celtics and then the ensemble cast starting to look more viable and some of these stars just being parked on sightings so that'll be three all right like when we agree yeah but speaking of disagreeing well we're gonna we're I think we're gonna agree on this we'll sit we'll see you strap in because ww monday ny raw is coming to netflix i'm ww superstar live morgan and i've got huge news for the ww universe starting january six all the clothes lining paul driving power bombing action you live for now comes you live on netflix so come step into the ring and stream ww raw live from mering monday january six only on netflix where do you get those shoots easy they're from dsw because dsw has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now you know like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour the boots the turn grocery isles into runways and all the styles that show off the many sides of you from daydreamer to multi-tasker and everything in between because you do it all in really great shoes find a shoe for every you at your dsw store or dsw.com actually okay what what's your take on the king's firing mike brom i think so we've discussed the possibility of the king's making changes before and i think that the at its core the first thing we need to discuss is was firing mike brian the right decision and my belief is no i think that the the to the the biggest issue in sacramento to me is not even i use the bill part cell shorthand of a groceries problem where you know like it's the the idea that like you could think of the coaches the chef the general manager is the one who buys the who buys the food buys the groceries and i don't even see that i see groceries as a bigger problem than the coach but yeah but mike brian was making a pretty damn good chicken salad out of that defense exactly and but an even bigger problem than both of those to me was the perception problem the delusions of grandeur i guess we call it with sacramento the idea that somebody else could be doing a meaningfully better job and so to you typically think of that as like oh they're over overvaluing the players i think that's a part of it but i also think that it's just like that they think the the vivak i mean this seems like it's a vivak around a diva thing more so than monie McNair the McNair is of course a part of the decision to remove mike brian as head coach and so it's just like what do you think you have here and to me those those are the real problems rather than mike brian well i don't think they thought they had a 13 and 18 team i don't think they thought that they had the worst clutch team in the NBA this the svakarana kings have already lost 2.9 games more than expected based on the score when they entered the clutch and our six and 13 in clutch games with i will correct us by the way tomorrow rose and ridiculously has never won clutch by the year you should have won it last year for sure fox won it the first year of those available oh it's only it's only happened twice yeah so yeah it's only been not an award for two years and then stuff won it last year in a in an award i i did not particularly agree with um so so that's been ugly and the losses themselves have been ugly a lot of blown leads oh and five homestand there's a feeling that it's spiraling out of control and they don't really have anything else that they can do other than this there is a feeling of desperation maybe this is just the last bullet that they can fire with this air we don't know what rich paul said to management when he was up there during that Lakers set that they lost both of of course i'll also say that listening to some of the recent sound bites mike bran is really coaching this team hard and i thought Slater and amik both guys very plugged in up in sakar had some great context going back to some old mike bran quotes because think of mike bran's history first he's fired after back to back 60 win seasons in cleveland with libron and then he gets fired after like the first five games with the this is going to be fun Lakers then he goes back to cleveland for one year and gets fired there then he goes to golden state and is a really good assistant there for a while and then finally gets another chance in sakar but mike bran his quotes so stuff that he's been through libron's one of the more intimidating people to coach obviously he probably felt like his stars despite his efforts to placate him them never you know particularly had his back and so he basically based on his public comments and i think that history decided that he was going to just coach it his way and he came in and he was a fucking rock star unanimous coach of the year i think the only one there's been and in that first year and they were still pretty good the next year and so he felt like he had a lot of equity then of course there's this issue with the extension and they kind of had to draw blood from a stone there with those negotiations publicly almost breaking down and and could be part of the reason why that all went public was because of mike bran stature in sakar and all of the equity that he had with the fans and vivak felt that pressure and had to pay him good job at him getting paid absolutely but mike bran he just decided he's going to fucking coach the way he was going to coach now just coaching the way he's going to coach in the media is that a great idea i don't know if that was resonating and you can't you can only go to that well so many times before i think you start to lose the team emotionally and i think seeing what happened and for those who missed it the final straw was them blowing a seven point 17 point lead and i think 10 points in the last three minutes against the pistons and then they're up three in the final possession mike bran instructs the team to follow if someone had their back to goal they don't do that and then he instructs the team to not give up a three deer in fox is just not even in a stance on the last play of the game he's just standing straight up he's guarding jadon ivy he's not even close to jadon ivy he'd been instructed according to mike bran to stay close to him they don't care if they get it to it the rim we're up by three we don't give a ship and so malike beasley they run the play for him he gets shut down good defense throws it to jadon ivy in the corner just like one pass away deer in fox there's nothing he should have been reacting to yeah like there's no there's no way to help without helping when you're trying not to give up a three yeah and so he reacts late because he wasn't in a stance and he should have been standing right next to him to begin with like mike bran was like yeah let's stay on the high side of him not give up a three and so he closes out jadon ivy pump fakes fox clearly follows him he makes it ivy makes the free throw is one of the few times up three that you see a guy give up a four-point play and then the kings are out of time outs and they can't get any kind of a shot so mike bran in his presser he takes us through everything that i just said he's like i don't know why he didn't do that here's what we told them that's pretty pretty rare regardless of what happens you might say yeah diana dreighton i was telling you to rebound i'm telling you to get to the foul lately you might be telling these guys the shit publicly or privately all the time and they're not getting it you just don't go into that level of detail like the coach publicly you know you might say like hey you know we we wanted to follow and we just we couldn't get it done or something you know we or you don't call out someone specifically and he got asked what happened of course and i think he's under fire he wanted to make it clear that he instructed him but like whether you instructed him or not like you take some responsibility you're the coach you got to get these guys to execute daren fox did not execute maybe didn't want to execute for mike bran anymore and then when he came in to his presser he was asked what happened on the last play and he said well no one's gonna feel any any better about it so we're not gonna talk about it now that's an unbelievably pathetic answer when you make that stupid of a play like don't get me wrong but that also shows that there's just like a total disconnect at this point and with the guy who is just talking about maybe leaving you can also say well it's the erin fox who's that good like is mike bran actually like more importantly kings than daren fox obviously they've said no and pavek loved that offense in the reporting in 23 and they haven't been at quite the same level since and even when they have been better they haven't been running and doing all the stuff that pavek was so excited by the same way he would be by playing four on five and so like it's obvious that something was rotten there regardless of whether mike bran has quote unquote done a good job regard regardless of whether it was amazing with his four man being demar de rosen in his five man being demonstrous to bonus to have the and having no backup five to be the 14th rank defense and regardless of how well he's gotten dear and fox to defend for that matter you at least will admit i'm sorry i went on this very long rant but i i think was this is all necessary context here you at least will admit that like something was very wrong 100 yeah 100 and so so does that was i've does everything that i just said change your opinion at all that they were run to fire him no because at it i don't think that especially in a season like and if dear and fox's reason for requesting a trade is that he's being coached too hard i think that's and and i mean sacramento like the biggest thing that's affecting their that's affecting their like their record versus their perception is that they're losing close games it's not that they're a terrible team i mean i think they're they're overrated and all that type of stuff so i i think that it is it that all all you said is correct and i think that it also feeds into this which is who makes the decision and why and so the decision on on who to who to hire and who to fire coach wise that is general manager and owner and so yeah well well uh Danny it's reported that it was entirely money mcmerry's decision so so there you are of course of course yeah and so he did he he uh when money mcnerry went to him and begged to fire mike bran vivec said okay and that that sourcing is from ravec vanadeve um but and i will say like that's just slater and amic repeating what they were told i don't know that i'm not saying that they believe that but that that is in this story like that's what they're told they they can report that i think they also had plenty of details in there about vivec and how he felt about my brad and how he wants an ex-player and how he felt about done christy and all that stuff so uh exactly take with that what you will but that was in the story but so so you you but whoever the decision makers were both in reporting and in actuality um it it ties in with this idea of well if you're not going to change the players and the players don't like the coach then you change the coach and so well i think that the thought process was incorrect i think that it does a poor job diagnosing the issue here i do see how people who see that first issue differently than i do would then come to this conclusion and with mike bran being as open and as vocal as he was that there is a fear that having him with that kind of a platform for a longer period of time i'm not saying the way that they handled the firing was spectacular but that that there is a that the organization beyond mike brown could have felt that there was a risk to the fabric to camaraderie to all that stuff of keeping him around longer even if you thought he was doing good job so the idea being that once you decided that he is not the answer then you fire right away in this specific case because it could fray the relationships well and they just felt like they're just in a massive tailspin right now and they felt like they didn't have a deal that they can make that they they felt like you just they had to stop digging and maybe this is the only thing that they could do is to take the shovel out of mike bran's hands potentially but uh yeah i mean i do think like mike bran is not blameless here like this this public act was too much it wasn't working he kept going doing it he kept doing it you just you need to be more effective behind the scenes than that and i i don't know how much that contributed i do think it was part of it but uh i mean i i appreciate his desire to be himself just be yourself behind closed doors just play play the bullshit game in front of the media or and you just like good coaches don't go to that well more than like a couple times he um i thought it was interesting michael malone was not very complimentary of the games a lot of people Dan wrote about this too like we're complaining like oh they told they let him do media and they told him on the phone on the way to the plane it's just like you know it happened right after the loss like you you can't you're gonna it would it be better if the king if vivak in a rage just called mottie mcnair right after the game and said fire him no you should have at least some sort of a process there where everyone talks to each other and like that takes time you can't just hit a button and everyone's on the same page and then the moment that you know it you should go ahead and fire him you shouldn't let him get on the plane to l.a. and then fire him in l.a. or let him do another product like it just like this whole thing like oh they were rude to in the way they fired him like everyone always complains about that everyone always complains about the way they're traded it's completely meaningless it's a total canard it was the decision to fire him right or wrong like whether they he like you know like like it's the same thing with like when you're being broken up with like you can seize and like how mean the person was to you when because they like didn't call or they didn't do it in person or whatever it's like no you're just pissed off you got broken like that's that's what it's yeah arguing about being mad about process generally is not a winning argument so now the other thing we could talk about though is the choice of an interim why'd you make that noise i've never been the biggest believer in Doug Chris like the funny thing about when somebody's been a been a broadcaster for a long time is like i've heard Doug Christie talk about basketball a lot and i never thought oh man i'm really interested to see what that guy's gonna implement as a coach yeah he's no jj rattak we'll put it that way and and i think just from like what little i've heard about him i wouldn't say that it was glowing and he fits into these tropes that vivak was looking for in terms of x-player and he's recall that vivak also hired vladi devats just because he's been around sacramento a lot basically so uh and you know subonus really likes Doug christy they do a lot of work in the off season and like perhaps there's a feeling that they just need to be better emotionally and that perhaps Doug can provide that and that he could be more of a manager or someone else to do the x's and o's whatever we'll see how this goes he's gonna get a chance to audition for the permanent gig and it sounds it sounds like christy's gonna have the job for the rest of this season yeah well i mean what are they gonna do fire him and bring another interim i mean there there aren't really any great free agent coaches at the moment either most of those guys came off the sidelines last off season so we'll see what happens with the kings but this five-game homestead to go to 13 and 18 i mean there are any chance of like threatening for the top six is pretty much gone now and that's that's where i think they felt like they needed to be this is again this is probably more of a desperation move i don't think that like does another deserving got nothing to do with it i generally i'm much more on board with firing coaches than the average person and i think mike bran is a good coach i think he did a good job there and it could also be that retaining him was untenable and we're not there in the building to know that for sure so i i do give a little bit more deference to these types of decisions than most you do and you know i still think he's a good coach and they're not going to find a better one than him you do and you might be right but i also i i reserve the right to maintain my skepticism of the vivak bran and deve as an owner and those who think that this team should be significantly better than their performance has been i mean especially i mean some of the clutch stuff you can lay part of it at the feet of mike bran but i mean generally speaking that we we've the the vagaries of clutch performance relative to overall team performance have been something you and i've discussed a lot over the years and so yeah i i think that the kings will be you know maybe they'll have i was going to say they'll have a little bit of boost off it they did lose to the Lakers again on saturday with don kristi but how is how is that possible isn't like doesn't demand us the bonus just dominate anthony davis he was a six and oh in his career coming into the season like how could the how could the Lakers have swept the kings this year when subonis there's so much better than anthony davis all right i'm starting to lose the thread here the sacciano kings will bring that out of me but thanks so much for subscribing and if you're listening on the free feed please subscribe to our newsletter which is free link to that is in the show to get Dan's daily dunks twice a week did a really good job writing about this mike bran thing today and we will catch you all in a few days actually because uh got a few things to take care of we usually are a little bit lighter three episodes a week over the holidays but we'll get you two more including a 15 and 60 at some point in this week we'll talk to you all soon wwe universe the countdown is on monday night raw is coming to netflix this is ww superstar damean priest and starting january six netflix brings you the biggest stars the juiciest angles and the high flying action of wwe raw that you know and love there's never been a better time to step in the ring and stream wwe raw live only on netflix premiering monday january six [BLANK_AUDIO]
In an annual tradition, Nate and Danny look back at the biggest stories of 2024 and pick the three most consequential. Plus, we look back on what we thought would be the biggest stories at the start of the year and see how well we predicted them.
Then, Nate is more on board with the Kings firing Mike Brown than the consensus, while Danny thinks it was a ridiculous move. 1:07:45
