Alright friends,
We are throwing out some big ideas about a big topic. This is our continued deep dive into the Enneagram Instincts.
We are setting a foundation, pitching a runway to take off from, and we hope you jump in!
Around the Circle: An Enneagram Podcast
Instincts | "Self-Preservation" | Part I
I'm Jeff Cook, and I'm TJ Wilson, and this is Around the Circle. Enneagram! It's a map of the human personality. It's a tool for navigating relationships. It creates language for what motivates us and helps us look at the way we look at everything else. It's important that Enneagram is America, because sometimes you need help seeing yourself. My name is Jeff Cook, I'm a philosopher in Greeley, Colorado with me is TJ Wilson. This is Man, Lower Theology, and Enneagram Ninja. Hello. My man. Hey, hey, hey. We are doing the deep dive into the instincts. Starting now. We have set up all the footnotes, theory, talked to some folks who were informed, but now you and I actually get to put some flesh on these bones. Hooray! Yeah, you said starting now, and I was like, "Would haven't we already done like four episodes on this?" We're gonna actually talk specifics. Oh, right, right, right. The deep dive, that part starts now. I want to mention how we're getting into this, because so many people when talking about the instincts are really just going to chestnuts book and reading it, and then communicating it on their own podcast. Sure. I don't know that there's a whole lot of other stuff there, yeah? Not an unreasonable take. No. Her book is fantastic. It's true. We did something different. I've spent the last month or so finding every interview I could find in which the participants said that they're dominant instinct, the way that their type manifests in the world is primarily through one of these three instincts. I've ripped the audio, and I've thrown it into large language models, and as well as reading through the transcripts, and have just been looking for themes. And so this is a loose attempt at trying to get some fresh takes on each of the instincts. Yeah. So that's just, just so you know, these were fairly in-depth interviews. There's probably six or seven participants for each of the 27 different manifestations of the instincts. We're going to be talking about self-presence instinct today. And so that's what we got. We got all these interviews looking for themes, looking for things that pop and just trying to say, how does the self-preservation instinct manifest in this type over and again? And just putting a name to it. Yeah. We talk about how this muddies everything. So instinct, subtypes, this idea makes everything a little bit more complicated. And realistically, this is one of the things that the best possible way to understand this material is not from a book, because all of the written material is so abstract, like there's so much, there's so much depth to this topic. The best way you could probably get into it is hearing other people talk about it, and their own experience. And yeah. Building on our last conversation, you and I, metaphors are now starting to hit me, get into my head in terms of how we talk about instincts. The biggest thing is that instincts are about our social energies. They are about us engaging group, engaging the individual in front of us or engaging ourselves. And oftentimes, the thing, as you look at the themes that manifest, that are coming out, one of the ways that I've started to think about instincts is it's a lot like the gears in a car. So for those of you who are Gen X and older, you will be familiar with the stick shift. So I'm meme that I'm sure lots of people have seen this meme, where it was like a Gen Z auto theft deterrent. Yeah. And it was a but if you've driven a stick shift, you manually put your car into first gear or second gear, fourth gear, right? And when you put it into a gear, it, the car behaves a certain way. So for example, if you're in second gear, your car is going to go slower, but it has a whole lot more control. And that's how the gear works. Whereas if you get it up into fifth gear, you're going to, it's going to be riskier because you're going much faster if you're in fifth gear. You don't have as much control, but you are able to go, you know, a further distance and the rest. And there's times when you use the gears. So like I grew up in the mountains, I know it's like to downshift into first or second gear to go up a very steep slope. I want the control. I can't go fast. I need the energy and power. And I'm very self protective as it were with the car in that moment. And I also know it's like to shift into fifth gear. When I'm on a highway, I'm flying, I need to get from here to there fast. And but the conditions of the road really affect how I shift my car into what gear. And it seems to me that this is how the instincts work. I'm a type one, you're type nine. We shift commonly into a gear that works for us, given our lives, given all of the things coming at us in the world. And sometimes we just make our home in that gear because we can become really good at driving in second. We could become really good driving at third or the rest. And the as we kind of said in our last episode, the instincts are not part of your type in our view. The instincts are tools that you can employ. There are gears you can shift into. A lot of times you become much more comfortable with some of those gears. But the the real thing you should see in the instincts is we lay these out. And it's at least been my experience is I can see myself in the self-pres one descriptions. I can see myself in the sexual self, one descriptions and in the social one descriptions. But the frequency with which those descriptions apply to me are very different. But I can still see myself shifting into that gear. Right. And I think the context is also really important. I think we're going to hit this point over and over again. But even with these as sort of social energies, we're not necessarily talking about self-preservation types being loners. We're not talking about sexual or pairing types being only interested in in close relationships with one or two other people. We're not talking about social types who only want to go to parties. It's where to do these instincts show up and the different ways that they show up in those different spaces. Like you were talking about using downshifting in order to go up a steep hill. But you also can use downshifting to go down a steep hill more properly. True. And so like that these instincts show up for us in our lives. It is not necessarily this one is here, this one's there. So recognizing where it shows up for you and how it affects your behavior in those areas. And even I didn't know that you downshifted on big hills going down big hills until I was dating my wife. Because we would go up in the mountains all the time and she had a stick shift and she'd be like down shifting while we're going down these curvy roads. It's like, what's happening? Oh, the engine is doing all the braking work. Save your brakes. That was just something I didn't learn in the city. Yep. Good opportunity to learn to use these instincts in different places. Some of you will be saying, well, when should I shift into X, Y, and Z? There's not really a should sometimes here. Yes. It's instinctual. Right. And you generally go there sometimes subconsciously. But the reason that we shift is kind of threefold. I'm going to I'm going to pitch this as there's always a tension and it's the tension between being independent and being connected to others connected either to an individual or connected to the group. So those are the three. Am I standing independent now or am I connecting with this other person or with the group as a whole? And we routinely are living in that balance that tension. We might say it this way. When the world comes at us, we ask ourselves a question subconsciously and that question is, whose needs come first? And for myself, I easily shift into that pairing bonding sexual instinct. And when the question if something breaks severely, my first impulse is, where's my wife? I need to take care of her. My wife doesn't do that for me. Her first question is, where's my family? I need to take care of them. Yeah. And whose needs come first is what emerges when life happens. And for some of us and imagine teachers, the the answer is, something's broken. Am I okay? And once I'm okay, then I can respond to the needs of my daughter, my wife, and the rest. Yeah, that happens a lot. But immediately you shift into that gear. And so I don't naturally shift into self protection as quickly as I do into pairing bonding. That's because I'm most comfortable in that pairing bonding space. Right, right. My wife is most comfortable in that social space teachers, most comfortable saying, am I okay? And then I can act. Yeah. Nothing wrong with that. These are the gears. Yeah, that's just how it is. That image really helps me. Because as we talk about self-pres instinct this time, we're going to see some themes emerge out of that. And it's generally when life is happening, how exactly do those who are shifting into that self-pres instinct are really, you know, filtering life at this moment in through self-preservation, you know, what does that look like? And the four big ideas that we see across the types, when those who are describing their self-pres behavior, are that these types create boundaries. These types prefer independence first. These types are risk averse. And these types collect assets. And the assets are not necessarily financial. They often are tools that have worked for them. Sometimes they are social alliances, people who they can depend on. That's not a bonding move. And it's not a social move. It's this person is reliable. Yeah, it's a resource move. Or even networks of people, you know, it's not that I'm caring for the people, but I am employing the network on my own behalf. Right. So boundaries, independence, risk, and assets. We're going to see that over and over again when we see the self-pres instinct in each of these types. I want to make a special note of that word independence and this tension that we get to hold between dependence and independence. And we talked about this in our last episode. And this is sort of like the ulterior motive point that's underneath a lot of what I want to talk about today. And so I'm going to keep coming back to this idea that like independence does not necessarily mean living in alone in the cabin in the woods. But you can be part of a social group and still try to establish your own independence from needs, you know, or like you are part of the group because this is the group that keeps you safe, but you don't share yourself with the group because you're there there to keep you safe. That can still be a level of independence. Dependents, independence, like as the great poet wrote, independence is full of contradictions. And we get to learn how to live in this world, especially in the United States, where we want to be independent, but we are part of a society. And so we need to remember that tension, like we're finding ourselves in that tension in all of this conversation about independence versus dependence. Yep. So to spend another kind of image of this, I think all of us, okay, so imagine that time where something really broke. Somebody broke up with you. You had somebody who cared about the lost, but you found yourself in a crowd. You know what it's like to be alone in a crowded room, right? And that's the independence that we're talking about. Sure. Like you don't have to be a hermit to be independent, right? You can easily go into that interior space and you're doing business with the interior world. You know, she broke up with me and now I need to repair myself is a self-preserving move. I shift into that self-preservation spot because I've been hurt damaged. I don't, I can't pair with that person. The rest of society doesn't understand. And all I got is let me turn my eyes inward and that inward focus is going to be a big deal. In fact, I want to say that even a lot of spirituality actually is going to come out of here as well. Like kind of the inner journey, self-reflection, you know, even doing any gram work, we know it's like to do a gram work in a community which is really very beneficial and really needs to be part of our rhythms. But a lot dear listener, we also know that you're listening to this probably by yourself. Right. So there is a, there's a, you know, I'm seeking a full sense of myself in this moment is a gear you have. Right. Let me do a self-emintory. And that's the instinct emerging. Right. I was prepared for this intro to be 40 minutes and we're already cooking. So yes. I'm pretty happy about this. Winning. Low and behold, TJ's dominant instinct. That is the place that TJ commonly lives is in this self-presed state by his own admission. So starting with the nines would be, I think, appropriate. You can give us the low down on what it's like to be here. And then when we jump to the ones next, I can say, hey, I do go to this gear sometimes, but it's not necessarily where I live, but I certainly recognize myself and I'll be our discussion. Great. I mean, we're going through all nine to the, we're going around the circle. What's this called? Around the circle? Is that what this podcast? But we're starting with the nines. Yeah. Boundaries, independence, risk, assets. There's lots to be said here, I think, in terms of how this man sets in nines. You want to start? You want me to start? I could start. Do it. Give a, give a little bit of the, the personal version. So there, the self-preservation, the part of me that is really interested in keeping me alive and keeping me moving forward. It also has this fun, let's, let's say this, this monster on its back, that it has to carry around with it because I also have a chronic pain disease. And I think this is a big part of my self-preservation. The fact that I have a disease that affects my entire body means that I get to spend an awful lot of time thinking about my body and my resources and how my body feels in any given space. Now, I see my self-preservation instinct come out most at my home because that's, that's the safe place where I don't ever have to put this in front of other people. And that means that I have really comfortable clothes that I wear at home. I have really comfortable furniture. I've designed my home in a way that makes me feel good about it. I, I feel really uncomfortable in sterile environments. So my home is a little messy. And one of the things that is really interesting to me about like the state of my home is while people, a lot of people who come to my house look around and see all of the stuff and, and pile, like there's, there's piles of papers in some places and, and we're not exactly neat and it's definitely not sterile, like that. There's stuff all over the walls and there's books everywhere. They are, our house feels very lived in. And that means that when people come over, they feel at home too. There is a level of creating a space for me that says, this is, this is all about making my body feel good in this space. And so when we talk about boundaries, like, I don't want this to spill out to anyone else. And I, no one else gets to decide what this space looks like. I'm very good at creating boundaries for my house. I am not very, I'm not as good at creating boundaries at work, but I'm really good at it here. When we talk about independence, I, I don't, there's so much about being in this space that is this self-preservation, like, if I have to rely on other people, then I'm not protecting myself. If I have to give to other people, then they might take more for me than I'm, than I have to offer and then I wouldn't have enough. Like, there's a level of protecting my resources, protecting my time, protecting my energy that says, I can't give these things to other people because I need it for me. I need to make sure that I'm okay, especially knowing that my body is, may not be working correctly. Mm-hmm. I don't like risk. I don't like taking big chances. Double darons with the nine sphere. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of the self-preservation nine-ness that is, is sort of pushing into a lot of the bigger categories of nine-ness. Risk averse, I, because there's so much that could happen when you take risks. There's so much that could happen that could upset your piece in any way. So those kinds of things are outside of my field of vision. I want to do what's comfortable and I often don't even know that that's the, the space that I live in because I'm, it's so instinctual. Yep. Like, I don't understand the routines that I have until someone else points them out to me. And it's because this space is safe, clean, comfortable. Clean isn't the right word, but predictable, predictable. And it's, it's, my piece is, my harmony with my environment is so important in my house. And if it doesn't work, I'm not comfortable. My house is broken. The predictable measure, I think, is hugely important. And we're going to see how much home and nesting kind of is employed by all the types. In their self-preserving state. Right. Some of the types when nesting are going to insist on, you know, some measure of like order or cleanliness to make them feel good. Right. But nesting and creating a home and creating boundaries in which you feel good is the move. Right. It's, you know, if a clean bathroom makes you feel good, great. If it's the case that having books kind of strewn all over the place, but that makes you feel like you're in Hobbiton and, you know, doing your, your bag and thing. And then, you know, and that, that just speaks to your soul, all these books all over the way. It's my jam. That's great. It's my jam. Yeah. So you got a lot of furniture. Yeah. Everything's a little cozy. Physical media is a big thing for you. Got lots of DVDs and Blu-rays. And, and I have a lot of CDs and records and I have VCRs. I have all of the things that I might need to play, play my physical media. Got the tools. Got the tools to create the boundaries, create the world that you want to inhabit. Right. Especially as, as was said, there are some things that you want to escape the, what I was hearing there in terms of like, if it's the case that either the pressures from outside or even the pressures from your own physical body are sneaking in, how do you, how do you cope with those? Well, perhaps being more still, being able to enjoy things, your clothing, you know, media, where you can sit and be. Yeah. It's probably going to be a way of getting, you know, of settling down pain as it were. Right. And creature comforts and secret cookies and candy hidden all over the house. And on the negative side, we could probably talk about an architizing. Yeah. And we could probably talk about inertia for, for nines in this space. Yeah. Self-preservation. It's really easy for, for me as a self-preservation, nine, with a pain disease, I spend an awful lot of time on my couch. And it's really easy for me to get to that place. Because that's the place where I get to just shut off everything from the outside. And it's, it like I'm a, I'm a bear in a den. The world outside doesn't exist because I get to just zero in on taking care of me for a few minutes. That's how self-preservation is manifesting in the nine. We're going to see in other types that self-preservation may look very, very active. But it's the same instinct. Yeah. And I think it's manifesting out of different motives. Right. Home and creature comfort, the resources, resource management for me, I grew up poor. So I'm less concerned about like money and food and those things. But I know other nines who are sort of self-preservation dominant, they are more concerned about making sure they have enough of those kinds of resources. So part of their work, part of how self-preservation manifests for them may be a, a more intense focus on making sure that they have access to those resources. Yeah. So I have never been concerned about making money at my jobs, which makes sense because I've never had jobs that made me any money. And there are other self-preservation nines who need that security as part of their resource management. I can see that with my mom who's, who's really got into stocks. But there was a, I've, I've done the work and now I can kind of forget it going on there. Yeah. But nines, especially is the stress move for nine kind of comes into play here. So the stress move and self-preservation, these will commonly kind of blend and color each other. So, so it is worth noting that nines move to six, space and stress and self-preservation can kind of, you know, come in and color some of that. Right. But managing fear and anxiety through avoidance strategies seems to me to be a real common way that nines can approach. Something's broken. What do I do? Well, I'm going to positive spin. I'm going to avoid. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to postpone decisions. I'm going to, I'm going to engage comforting, repetitive, you know, kinds of activities. Yep. I'm going to, I'm going to do the things that then routine actually will be a big part of self-preservation. Yes. Instinct. It's like, let me engage the routines that seem to create some stability and kind of, as was said earlier, kind of at their best, it can be a building your inner self doing, doing, having a focus on your own well-being, well-being of your body or soul, your mind, through routines. There's a, there's a practicality to routine as well, because this is, this is a physical thing. We're going to see this all over the place. The routine develops habit like that. There's something about habitual requiring less energy that is very well showcased with nines, and we'll see it all over, all around the circle, but, but self-preservation can also be about preserving your own energy. And when you have routines that you don't really change up, it doesn't take any energy. It literally takes less energy to execute a routine than to come up with a new plan every day. It's a good way to put that. Routines also are kind of, can be a home away from home. It's my little sanctuary I take with me. When I drive to work, I always listen to this podcast. The one thing TJ does routinely is when he goes into his coffee shop, he has an identical rhythm for I've entered, this is the drink I make. You all can talk, but I'm in my, my little sanctuary. And, and that creates a sense of control for the nine. It's a physical activity, body type that nines are, and you're establishing, here is that self-preservative kind of way of being in the world is even if I'm going to enter into social spaces, my needs come first. Right. I need to get my space, my body, my mind, into the mode of being in this space. This seems to me, so one of the quotes that I had was that, that nines and self-preservation can be more easily irritated and stubborn. That's kind of, that's how it can manifest in the world, the self-preservation side. I think that nines and self-preservation can access their anger and showcase their anger a lot more easily than the others, because at that point, I think that, tell me if I'm wrong, nines know they're angry, can talk to themselves about their anger. They might try and repress their anger, but if you're not engaging the social or the pairing bonding instinct, that may just come out, again, as the irritation and stubbornness. The passive aggressiveness is also, I mean, I'm like, how is anger manifesting for this instinct? Sure. Well, there are the nines who lean more heavily on this self-preservation. There is less energy, less attention, less natural ability to engage in relationships, meaningfully in ways that include the full self. So self-preservation by its nature, especially in nines, is protecting ourselves from the intrusion of other people, which means that we are more sensitive to those intrusions. I wouldn't necessarily go so far to say that the nines are aware of their anger. I think I'm an anomaly in this sense. I'm definitely outside of the curve, but the anger is more available for sure, because self-preservation nines are more sensitive to those intrusions. I feel like the anger is there, but then there's like a click, like, how is it expressed in the world? Or even expressed to myself, because you're doing the inner work, you're like, okay, I got this energy. What do I do with it? I get stubborn. One thing I did want to bring up was the idea of other people that nines in this space have a unique ability to understand the problematic people around them. That person is chaos, and I am going to avoid them. How do you know that person is chaos? You didn't feel the chaos coming off of them? There it is, the intuitive side, even. Often this is invisible to me. I'm around you a lot with all around a lot of people, and your avoidance of other people isn't something that I notice until, oh, I saw what happened there. It just didn't get it. Because it's not about you, it's about protecting me. It usually does not occur to me to share that if I'm aware of it, except later when I want to be all gossipy about it. Which is dealing with things, yet bringing some humor to them. I mean, it's a disarming move being gossipy about. You kind of take away people's power when you gossip about them in some ways. You create boundaries as well. It can be a passive aggressive strategy. You don't need to clearly state, I don't want to be around Joe. But if you make fun of Joe in a certain way, did you recognize how much he smells like onions? I mean, that's a passive aggressive way of saying, don't invite us to the same party. Well, and it is a way to have those kinds of, like boundaries is a good word there. It's a way to have those kinds of opinions about people. This is terrible. This judgment of people. But it's a way to have that without the natural ability to bring that into the world. There are people out there who naturally have the ability to bring these things to the forefront. Like, eights don't have a problem creating boundaries with people they don't want in their lives. Nines really do. And this is one of the ways that I as a nine cope is I talk trash. Your self-preservation comes out there. This is also, I mean, here would be an example of social alliances. The self-preservation instinct, seeking social alliances, may come out of this spot if I'm protecting myself by badmouthing someone or telling stories about someone in such a way that I'm trained to see if you're on my team. Yeah. You know, yeah, we're finding like minds. Yeah, right. Finding like minds. I think human beings in general have a lot of this going on unconsciously. I think you see this in politics all the time. We're going to talk about instinct Julie. Yeah. We're going to what are your thoughts about candidate X is really are you on my team if things break on this front, you know, self protective move. It looks social, but it's actually I need to preserve myself in my future. One thing we brought up and it's something I think will will come up at times. There's going to be places where our instincts balance our type. And there are going to be sometimes where the instinct doubles down on our type. So I brought it up with none means that that self-preservation move is really doubling down on withdrawal. So nines naturally withdraw as their stance in order to get what they want in the world. That's the move there. So that this can be tricky and it needs to just be known that like, like this is being overemphasized. So TJ and I routinely talk about balance as being a place that the enneagram opens the door for us to balance because extremes can get you in trouble. So having that in mind that when I when I shift into this space, I do need to recognize this is the space of avoidance. This is the place of narcotizing. This is the place of inertia. These just the nines need to just know when you shift there that you're going, you're using some some very thick, 120 proof material as it were. Right. And but we we barely even mentioned sloth, but sloth can easily be all over this. Like this, this lack of doing, this unproductive doing. Man, I'm in my own world. I had meant to bring that up. You had brought it up in our conversations off off mic that we're going to see the passions emerge in different expressions. It's interesting how the expressions come up. Yeah. We'll have to see. So sloth is real easy to see here in terms of not, not engaging, not caring about what I need to care about. Right. Path of least resistance. Right. Self-pres instinct in nines. I imagine self-preservation can look a whole lot like doing a lot of nothing as a manifestation. What does it look like in the world? Yeah. There's there's different ways that our energy comes out of us. And we talk about like social energy, physical energy, and like nines being the ones with the least amount of energy. Part of self-preservation is a hyper awareness of that energy and how it's being used. We can be very busy people, but the energy that we're avoiding is something else. Right. We could be very social people, but the energy that we're avoiding is doing the stuff that has to get done at home. Right. I suppose it's worth noting on this front that when we move into this space, all the types when moving into this space can look quite selfish. Yeah. And that would be the negative spin on the self-preservation move. Right. Because sometimes you need to go into that space to preserve yourself. Right. And so again, the balance like you don't, there's the balance between the independence and connection with others or even your duty and responsibility to others. And yeah. And that just needs to get played out, known. What are the help? What is the high side, dare we say, of self-preservation? And what's the low side of self-preservation that needs to get named? Right. And while we can, I think, name a lot of those things when we're talking about, say, stance or your intelligence center, it's a lot harder to name what's good and what's bad, what's healthy and unhealthy with these instincts because they get so much more individualized at this level. Yeah. Agreed. Well, when ones move into the self-preservation space, where are some of the things that you see? How about you do this one since I started with knives? So again, this isn't my favorite gear, but I do know this gear. Yeah. Ones want control and specifically want control over themselves. So when I'm focused on myself, there is, this is part of the gear. So self-preservation can look like creating rules. Rules allow ones both to conform, set something in place that they can navigate by their own will and earn the control they want, but it also frees them and protects them from the judgment of others. And not being judged is a going to self-preservation in order to not be judged is a big move, I think, for ones. Going into four spaces is also a place to not get judged by ones. In four space, you don't care about other people's judgments. In self-preservation space, you need a tool and you say to yourself, look, here are the rules. I did the rules. That's all I need to concern myself with. And I have taken an inventory of my internal life first. So the social norms or that one person's opinion do not apply. I have done that move of considering myself first. And then I can go into the world. Think in this space, there's a lot of acting on your feelings without much thought. I'm going to do the things that I feel are right as the self-preserving move without considering the opinions of the individual or of society. A lot of ones we've talked about this in the past will clean in order to feel in control. I think that's a manifestation of this instinct. I need a space that I can oversee and establish. I have control. By cleaning this bathroom, I establish that I'm okay and I have oversight of something. And I mean, here's how that home nesting instinct can manifest in ones. I'm going to order the things that I can order and I'll feel good because I'm improving those spaces. The biggest thing for me, I think, is the move towards health and wellness for a lot of ones. You'll see people go extreme who are ones in terms of their physicality through precise diets, health practices, sleep schedules, nutrition. That can move into things like I'm going to be meticulous about my planning of certain things. This isn't everything. This is the thing that really needs to be heard. Some ones are incredibly loose when it comes to some elements of their life, but just lock down on the things that they think are most important for their independence, for creating the boundaries, having the tools they need to feel good in the world when they're asking the question, "What do I need?" I could keep going, but that's a handful of the things that come to my mind. Yeah, I love that. I love thinking about like these types are the ones who have a strong prevalence of self-preservation, are usually the ones who are most perfectionist. The idea of being in control of my space, like it pushes here that this is the thing that I can make better and I need to make this as good as possible for my own sake. The judgment, the criticism, the space in their brain that is always wanting things to be better, it's almost like that volume is turned up a little bit and we have to make this as good as possible and it doesn't matter what other people think about it. This is really important to me, my well-being, my resources need to be a buffer approach. Yeah, I'm glad that you brought this up. The one thing I really, really, really wanted to talk about was about the inner critic here. The inner critic lives in the self-preserving space and here's how you know that we have access to all the instincts is that all ones experience the inner critic but it lives here. The self, the inner critic is a self-monitoring, you know, manifestation of our looking at our inner life and the high personal standards that we thrust on ourselves come in this space. The idea that I need to do better or here's how the passion anger for the one materializes in an unhealthy way in self-presed space. It's anger at myself, you could do so much better, you know, combined with a, that same judgmentalism is also saying, oh, but also your anger is wrong. So, yeah, so you're not allowed to be angry about this. Yeah, and that's going to be for a lot of ones. That's just a, I mean, that's a doom loop. Yeah. And there's lots of doom loops out there but that's one that ones are going to experience. If you go down that road. Right, right. And that's part of the perfectionism. So, so the idea of, we've talked before about how one sort of, it's almost like outsourcing there, the rules, like I need to find some system that makes sense so that I don't have to worry about constantly figuring out whether everything is right or wrong. If I, if I say this philosophy is how my life is, then that, that gives me, that shows me where I am and I can just be there. With the self-preservation instinct showing up in ones, like that, that space that becomes about like, like this perfectionism comes forward and says, these things need to be right because that's what the rules say, you know, like that, that critic is pushing into that space and saying, make these things better. Everything that you have immediate control over. Yeah. It builds on what you were saying with Nines. It, there is a comfort that ones need to feel. It's because of our energies, our, you know, our affect goes inward. And that's what's going on here is we're focused inward on our comfort. It's our focused outward on the comfort and Nines can go both ways. The, the inward comfort is, I'm going to feel comfortable when I've got all my ducks in a row, you know, with my character, with my exercise habits, with my diet and the rest. Here, you want to hear some gold? The common wisdom I consistently hear out there on ones, and the inner critic is to give the inner critic a name, you know, and to make, and to create that relationship. Friends, that's not the right solution. The right solution is to find people who care about you, who you can speak to, who give you a better message. So one of the reasons I don't experience the inner critic very much is because I push so hard into my bonding sexual instinct. I push into the opinions of my wife. I push real hard into the opinions of my kid. I perish real hard into that words of TJ into my life. These not only counteract that, but because I'm what's really taking place there is you're thinking repressed. Your energy going inward is looking to be comfortable and it manifests as a critic. Right. What a better way to go, you know, is to shift. Again, shift into, I need to bond with people who speak good things into my life so that I can get my head around the things that are most important for me at this moment and the rest. And so like, I almost never experience like the quote unquote, like the voice in my head. I feel energy like I've done badly, but this is because I just don't shift into that gear much anymore. Right. And it doesn't, we keep talking about perfectionism and it doesn't have to be like when this when self preservation is prominent, it does not have to be that like you need your bathroom to be a certain way. It that's probably a good indicator, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it could also mean that you need your relationships to be perfect. Yeah, let's talk about that. That's how you like that. If you are a really social person, because of your family upbringing, but you also are self preservation dominant and and one, like it may be the case that you are putting a lot of energy into having the perfect family, you know, like with the with the 2.1 kids and the dog and the white picket fence, like the it's not that you're living up to an image, it's that you're living up to an ideal. Yep. Notice again, here's the assets. That is a social alliance. It's not necessarily it's not necessarily about those individuals in my relationship. It's about I'm I'm finding myself in with this tool that really matters to my self preservation. Yep. That is why the image of like when others are critical or like I think that they might misinterpret what I said, the self preservation instinct gets I shift into into into the gear hard here. They misinterpreted what I said. That isn't that is about preserving myself. That's not about the relationship. Right. That is about ensuring that my social alliances are intact. So I want them to think good to me and that I'm an upright, honorable, you know, man of character. But that's a self preserving move. I care about your beliefs, pray about me. Right. And and because I failed to do to accurately represent myself in the first place, self preservation is all over that. All over that. Last thing I think I talked about exercise rhythms, but you see a lot of ones that really get into their spirituality. And it's again that like self improvement is, you know, is all over how ones are. But that's the turning inward. It's the self reflection. It's doing that inner journey work. And, you know, that's it seems to be a common, a common move for for ones when they shift into that gear. Yeah, and leaning into a lot of these shoulds. Yeah, the shoulds, the and and having to do with your physical presence in the world. I should drink a glasses of water a day. I should get this much sleep. I should exercise this often at living up to at least the bare minimum of shoulds, which for some of us who don't live in a world of shoulds, like that it's like I the bare minimum for you is so much farther than I am. Like it's so far beyond where I spend my day to day. Yeah. And still like there there's this expectation that I will live up to nay exceed the shoulds that I believe. Oh, I wanted to talk about something with both that you brought someone up with both nines and ones. And I this will probably actually be true across the board. There's regulating your physical body in the self preservative space. Yeah, they're the emotional regulation is also and you brought it up with anger. Yeah, but ones are going to do this as well. There's there is a withholding that can come in this space. There is a I'm not expressing my my motives, my desires to other people when I'm in self preserving space. Yeah, like I'm not articulating what's going on within when I'm in self preservation space. Why? I am when I move into sexual space. I am when I move into social space sometimes. Yeah, if it's apt. But that actually is one of the bigger qualities of the gears actually is how I convey my emotions. Yeah, self preserving is like the spigot is off and self self preserving. Right. And the spigot is entirely on when you are in the bonding pairing sexual space. And I think anger is the good template for that anger is an inappropriate emotion. And you're not if you were a good and healthy and grounded person, you wouldn't feel nor express anger inappropriately. Yeah, the that's what ones will believe when they're in the self preserving space. Yeah, because as I've said, commonly, like I'm more than happy to tell you where I'm pissed off, right at myself at others and the rest. But there it is, the spigots on for me. Right, because I because I live in that gear. Last thing, and I meant to mention this with nines as well, but it's the it's the being in control through work. Your work, my work, these can be places where we are actually moving into self preservation. Right. Because you can control that space, you can get away from the family, and the social expectations, the individual expectations. And it's like a lot of those who live in self preserving space will intentionally take jobs that allow them to be alone. Right. And that that fulfills multiple uses because they in that when you work alone, you have control over your own space. And you also get to, like, it's not just control, but it is also a different form of control where it's like, you don't have to represent the type of person who is controlling when you don't have to assert yourself in order to get control. Yeah, you can take a break from having to always push in that way. Right. The other thing that work does for a self preserving type is it can be a place that if you work hard enough, you in some measure have financial security. Right. Again, about resources. Yeah, it's about resources. So if I say, look, I'm getting away from my family, and I both get control and I get to ensure that I'm taken care of because I've worked hard enough to get the money, you can see how that would be just a gear, right? You know, that you're really using and all the types can use that, right? I think we'll see that across all the types. And just to give another example on the sort of opposite side of of that, like, like a different form of that could also be like a stay-at-home mom who decides to homeschool because that gives them full control over making sure that their family lives up to these shoulds. Yeah. Oftentimes that can be a me first thing. Right. I'm taking care of myself first, which means that you kind of see oftentimes we see people in our family as part of ourselves in that space. And there is an entire culture, a subculture, if you will, of this is what the good home model looks like. The dad who goes to work a nine to five job, and the mom who stays home and raises the kids and does homeschooling, like, that's not automatically a bad thing. Like, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It can be taken to extreme, certainly. But if you are a self-preserving one who has been raised in this culture and likes it and wants to stay in it, part of your being good for yourself is being that model, like, living into the fullness of the stay-at-home mom who homeschools. Yeah. Might really be uncomfortable with that social gear. Right. And so, like, giving my kids away to the, you know, to the tribe, to the collective that may feel really uncomfortable. Right. I think that's what I got. Do you think of someone's? The thing that I want to say about ones will actually fit better when we move, so no. Okay. Moving into twos. Twos are going to bring up an interesting element to instincts that we haven't talked about a lot yet, and it is the counter-type. Counter-types. So, obviously, we are not saying that the instincts are part of your type. So, we're going to have to wrestle with counter-type as an idea. This is going to be a move that because twos are earning the attention they desire, you need people to give you attention. But the self-preserving move is to get away from people and to be more independent. And so, in this space, it strikes me that perhaps a better way to think about this, perhaps, is that this is a balancing move. And some twos need to really balance, in terms of saying I need to push into self-preservation because I have such a strong motive to gain the attention that I desire. One real interesting footnote is that the counter-types for self-preservation are all heart-types. So, twos, threes, and fours, their move into self-preservation is the counter-instinct move, as it were. And so, just notice, in my mind, if we play out our theory, what's actually taking place here isn't a counter-type. What's playing out here is a balancing when you use this gear. Yeah. I like that. My favorite idea here is that my grandmother is richly in my mind, who I believe was a two. She lost both her mom and dad when she was very, very young, was raised by her siblings. She grew up in the depression. The woman saved tinfoil after she used it was like the resources assets, the things that she was making sure she had what she needed to get from here to there. Just grew up desperate poverty and made things happen. I can see this so clearly that she had her kitchen, and that was her space. And she was going to do everything she could for the sake of her family in the kitchen, but didn't really want to be disturbed because she had her space where she did things. But then when it was time, she would give all the gifts that she had created to everyone at the table, which wasn't very far away, and then she would get the love that she desired. But most of her time was actually spent in the preparation and in the spaces that she could control, the assets she had, no risk as it were, and there was real clear boundaries. This was her kitchen. All of that kind of manifests just in the activity of, I have very few memories of her, but that's one of them. It's like, here's the boundaries, and that's how she was in the world. What comes to your mind when you think about self-preservation and twos? Well, I think when we talk about resources with twos, and particularly in this self-preservation instinct, I think we need to really focus in on this intelligence center. Because I think the resources that twos are concerned with are relational in nature. I think that's true for the reason for us as well, and to help push into this, that if you think about everything that we talked about with nines and ones, we were talking about physical space resources. The way that our body exists in the world, those were our resources, energy, physical needs, comforts. When we get into these heart types, we see a much more relational focus on the resources that they are protecting. So, twos are social resources. So, twos who are self-preservation. I love this example of your grandmother being in the kitchen private, like this is her space, and when she is ready to spend that resource, she comes out and spends it, and then goes back to her space. It's not about the space so much as it is about the energy. This space requires a certain amount of energy from her, and she has set her own boundaries there. This space is where she spends the energy that she's been saving up. Yeah, the with twos who are relational in nature and looking to be helpful and wanting to be wanted, it's tricky to be really sort of not withholding, but almost in this like, I need to be protective about where I can and can't give my relational energy. And so, you find self-preservation twos are a lot, usually a lot more capable of saying no. Right, exactly. And I suppose to build on that, and when they say yes, it may be they're doing an activity that they can do alone that will contribute to the social alliances and networks that they know are very, very important, and they give them the attention they desire. So, one of my favorite podcasts that we've done was on "The Godfather." You all should get on to movie typing, go listen to our "Godfather" deep dive. One of the things you'll notice of this character who is a two is he's all about creating alliances, and he has his space. And it's this space where he does his work business, where he has control and where he can, you know, shush everybody out when he needs to, you know, and there's something there's something there. Like, I see this with my wife, we'll get this with threes, where she'll do artwork for other people as a primary, like digital stuff that she can do online that will make them look good. She's real good at that. She wants to do that by herself. And when she executes it, and then gives it strong desire to be acclaimed for the great work that she did, real somewhere, I think, for twos. Right, right. Well, and I remember hearing one of the resources I was using to study this. I remember hearing like several different all-female twos who are self-preservation dominant, and all of them were talking about like their home is the place where they host things. Yes, they love being part of the gatherings, but they always want it to be at their house. Yes, because this is the place where I have some amount of control over how the hosting goes. And I already know what's expected of me in this space. When I go to your house, I don't know where everything is. I don't know where I stand. I don't know what I'm allowed to get into. Like, this space is different because it's not mine. When you come to my house, I can give much more freely because I understand my inventory. No, this again, the self-preservation site here, they can spend all the energy they need to making their home beautiful and comfortable. And now the home is actually doing a lot of the work. The person comes in, look how beautiful that is. This is. That's a compliment. Look how well this is decorated. That's a compliment. You know, you sit down, I've already prepared the cookies. These are delicious. And all of that can be extended from a place where the two had absolute oversight of themselves inviting somebody into the space. And then the space can do a lot of the work, as it were. Yeah. This is one of the only quotes I wrote down from all of those interviews and questionings that we listened to from the Art of Growth guys. And it was a self-preservation to who said that she would like she spends all this time cleaning her bathroom before she has guests over. And then a couple of hours go by and nobody has to use the bathroom. And then she gets mad about it, which is like, like, I think that's a great way to think about like the relational nature of the resources. She did this thing for the people that were coming over to her house. And now she expects them to reciprocate by using the thing that she did. Yeah. And when they don't reciprocate, like, she did this for them and now they aren't fulfilling their end of the bargain. Because there's a great, like, it is relational in nature. It's still very much toish. And it is about self-preservation. Yeah. I love that. And and I think that that speaks to the pride aspects. Yes. Like pride comes in in self-preservation in in these ways of like, like, look at look at what I've done for you, but like, how dare you not use what I've done for you. Right. Yeah. There is the a balance. I want to say that of it's pride going the other direction of I'm proud that I don't need this person. Sure. That that can that the pride has a there's a double way that pride is expressed. We've we've struggled with articulating this in the past, where there's pride on the one sense. I've done so much for you that now you owe me because of how great I am. That's one side. There's a secondary face of pride of I'm so self-reliant and self-sufficient that I don't need you or anything you have to offer, right, and that can manifest itself in this space. And I also think that I like what Chestnut has to say about twos, but it is very different from the things that we've talked about so far. Like she brings in this idea of sort of like a child likeness and like, like, I am so precious that I have to be taken care of. And you can see that in some self-preservation twos because the way that they present to the world is you want to take care of them because they're like, you want to take care of a child, right? You want to take care of things that are fine and nice, like things that need to be taken care of. You have a natural instinct to want to take care of them. And in this way, they sort of set themselves above, they raise themselves up by being lowly if that makes sense. Yep. Again, two sides to pride there. Like one, I'm good enough to take care of myself. On the other front, I'm so valuable and precious that you want to care for me. It's just worth naming that these are two manifestations of the same underlying passion. Right. On the low side, move there. That's good. One thing I haven't brought up a bunch but I've wanted to is the appearance versus reality versus inner reality, I should say, that's at work with the self-preservation instinct. That we often, in self-preservation, are casting a image of ourselves, but we are withholding what is really going on within us. And I think the types that are most, will struggle the most with this are the two's fives and eights. And when we talk about affect and both their expectation of rejection, but also sometimes their inability to get into their inner life, I suppose with twos with eights, I suppose maybe with the feeling of repressed numbers in general, that element just needs to be named that other people don't know what's going on within you, when you are in self-preservation gear. But especially two's. How can I help you? Can be a self-preserving move. It can be about alliances. It also can be about passing the buck or about changing the topic. Because self-preservation can also be a protection of the thing that makes me most vulnerable. And your own needs, especially for two's fives and eights, your own needs may make you more vulnerable. Therefore, you withhold them. Pleasant small talk can be of this sort. It's small talk. It's small because it hears the boundaries. We are setting boundaries and saying we're not talking about these 12 topics. So it's superficial as a self-preserving communal move. Again, social alliances, I'm making sure that we're connected. You care about me, I care about you. That's all taken care of, but it's not revealing. The last thing I had was that fear for two's, especially here, is relational. It's not necessarily about not having enough money. It's about people leaving me. I think this is, again, to circle back to my grandmother. Just that early experience of losing her parents is sad with her whole life. And became part of how she filtered the world. That always fearing that somebody will leave me. So how do I position myself to ensure that? So that's not, again, a bonding move. It's not a social move. It's a self-preserving move of ensuring that, again, the social alliances and networks of people are there for me when I need them. And I gain that by serving them in these helpful ways. Right. Because for them, the resources are not the ball of tin foil. The resources are the relationships. This also leads to the primary critique I heard of my house growing up, about my grandmother, who I desperately adored. And there was nothing wrong with her in my mind. The phrase "conditional love" came up all the time that my family knew, that that's how she functioned in the world. I'd never experienced this one. She's giving us all these great things. But it's conditional. Notice this. I'm giving you something so that you care for me because that energy is coming out of the self-preserving space. I suppose I had one last thing on this, that sometimes the help that twos can offer from self-preserving space is the help to help you care for yourself. Yes. Yeah. Because it's also about home body resources. These are part of the self-preservation instinct. And so much of twos is directed outside of themselves. That instead of taking care of themselves, they'll read that you need something to be taken care of for you. And so they offer that to you. Yep. And that could be about taking care of yourself. You will notice this isn't a topic on anyone. There's a ton of twos who are any of your grand teachers. And again, I'm going to do all the work over here in my safe zone. I'm going to offer it to you. And it pings, it hits. You're like, this is amazing. And I'm giving this to you so that you can help yourself now with this material. Sure would like a thank you on the backside though. Right. Yep. Kind of move. Again, it's the gear that is shifted into. Right. Yeah. There are a lot of twos who are big and famous in crowds and even outside of the in a grand world. And it's possible that they have a social nature. It's possible that they are sexual dominant type person, but it's also possible that they're they're placed in the world. A rose out of them intending to to help you become better or or get something that you need. Right. And they are safe based on their their position, their authority in that field. Yes, that's where it really is there. Notice there the one it's creating the social alliance to it's actually creating a uniqueness for that too of their value. And that's moving into their desire for some for you know, I want to be unique in the crowd can be a thing that's both can be really good and can be unhealthy for the two can be out of a place of pride. Do do look at our villain series on that one. Yeah. And we spent more time on that topic. Well, that brings us to the threes. Self-pres instinct in the threes when threes shift into this space, it's again the counter move. So what do you see here for the self-preservation move for threes? This one becomes really interesting to me. I think this is as as a counter type, the three, the self-preservation three can often look much more like a one. Because the best way to overcome vanity is to not be vain. And therefore, I am the most unvain person that you've ever seen. Come on, jumping right to the passions here. Well, and it's not just that. It's this idea of in protecting myself, my resources, and again, with that that little like that that filter of the heart type, the relational filter on everything, these are types that they're not as interested in putting up a mask as they are and making sure that mask is worthwhile. Yeah, I think so the self-pres shift here allows the three to be most aware of their potential deceit. Yes. And when they do put forth an appearance, I think it's very self-conscious. If they feel like they're lying, they know they're lying. And it comes out of that space though. Part of it is, again, across the board self-preservation, instinct is to withhold that inner reality. So what do you do? You can't expose everything. Three is actually know this, I think, better than anyone. You cannot tell everybody all the things going on within you. And so what's put forth is, here's what I feel most comfortable with. And because self-preservation is trying to keep us alive and has a high radar for our resources and how we're taking care of ourselves, it's basically impossible to put forth a really good image all the time that's not a lie unless you're good. It literally takes too much resources to make that mask into something that's not resonant with what's actually inside. So threes become good in order to look good. They become like this is, we see this all over, threes become excellent in order to seem excellent. In the self-preservation space, that has a sort of emphasis for them and especially in the things that are good and praiseworthy. It's not necessarily about making the most money, being the most quote unquote successful, but being the best in your field might fall into this. Sure. You mentioned threes and ones. I see threes and nines all over this. And maybe this is, here's the stress move and self-preservation coming together. But the merging that can take place for threes, the adaptability. I don't need to care about what's going on inside myself. What I do need to do is meet your expectations. And that's a self-serving move, which we don't realize. But inwardly, what's happening is the threes aware of who they are in their life if they're in self-preservation space. But the move outward becomes, "Okay, well, what do you need?" And again, alliances, they have boundaries. They perhaps even are keeping their independence at that point, even though it looks like they're meeting the expectations of those around them. Right. They can always shift. Right. Well, and it's more likely that self-preservation threes will, instead of changing the mask when they move into a space where the mask they're wearing isn't working, instead of changing the mask, they'll change the audience. Yeah, there you go. There's something I see here where a lot of threnus comes out as self-promotion. Adaptation isn't self-promotion necessarily. Right. It can be on the backside when you feel a little bit more comfortable. But again, the self-preservation move, I think, is more... It's how do I protect myself? I adapt to the environment and the relationships around me. Right. Right. Again, people lose resources and social alliances. And relationships is resources. It's taking care of the relationships. There are a lot of threes in the world who are the sort of social butterfly, like, "I am who you need me to be." And then five seconds later, they're at a different table, and they are who you need to be now. And the self-preservation aspect of when we get into threnus is the energy needs to be spent in efficient ways. Yeah. And so if we're constantly changing form in the same space, that's not an efficient use of energy. There is an adaptability, but there's also a level of recognizing what the efficiency requires, because this is also a big part of just general threnus is efficiency. Yeah. It pushes us into that resource management side of things. Security is going to be a huge concern for threes, because they don't want to fail. And there's going to be that element always lingering. So what are the resources I have? So if things break, I'm not exposed as, you know, as worthless. Yeah. A backup plan. Yeah. The backup plan is there. Yeah. So we have a buddies who pushes into self-preservation fairly hard, who has a has a rental house. And I was talking of finance with them the other day. And it was always, if things ever go really, really bad, we can always sell the house. Like, but that means I won't get kicked out of my house. Right. Because that would be embarrassing. Right. And so there's always, yeah, the, again, how do I have threes who are able to take in the world through looking backwards, yet envision things in the future and be future problem solvers, are really saying, how do I ensure that I'm not embarrassed in the future? Yeah. And that's where resources come in for this preserving instinct. Right. It's not necessarily about making the most money. It's making sure that I have enough money that I'll, I'll never need to worry about it. And it may be the case that that then turns into a boast. Right. And it can, for itself, threes in self-preservation always have that gear. But it's, again, it's not coming out there. It's not necessarily the space of self promotion. Right. But if you've shored up all the things internally, you might, you know, turn that on occasion and say, sure, but I do have $2 million in the bank. Right. Right. You know, or yeah, a better example of this is something I routinely see with self preserving threes is their workout routine, or their, you know, their reading spiritual journal routine, which they are doing as a rhythm. We've talked about rhythms for self preservation. They are doing it as a, I need to get grounded. I need to do this as, you know, that turning inward. But when I find the beautiful spot on the trail when I'm by myself, when I'm really in touch with reality and my inner life, it sure is helpful that I have this camera here. Right. And I will take the picture and not everybody know that I'm doing just fine. You know, or here are the five books that I'm reading beside the pool. Look at how humble I am. Yeah. Well, there's the, there's the vanity element there. And it's a, it's a vanity for not being vain is such a great, like, like, I am the most humble person like that. It's that same idea. It's, I'm not going to tell you how rich I am, but I might pat myself on the back for telling you how well, how okay I am. You know, yep. Just to put a final note on this, we've talked about the energy for three, sixes and nines goes both ways. Right. In self preservation space, three, sixes and nines, it's much more heavily weighted inwardly. Yeah. And so in this space, threes internally validating themselves is going to be a bigger task than external, you know, admiration. Threes are great at telling themselves that they're amazing. On the, on the opposite side, you know, threes who really need the crowd to tell them they're amazing may shut off the internal validation side. Right. The threes in self preservation space are going to turn up the volume right on internal validation. Right. I got lots to say about threes and relationships in your space. Great. Speaking again about social alliances, who will make me look good is coming out of a self-preserving space. Yeah. I am connecting with you as a promoter, as a lawyer, as a, you know, as a co-worker, somebody I hire, if I hire you, it may be out of a self preservation space. I need you to do a job X, but I'm going to judge you based on whether or not. Yeah. You're improving the image that I have. Right. Right. Because it's all about resources. Everything that points to me is a resource. So one of the things that I've noticed for threes in this space is trust. There, there's a lot of testing to see if you're trustworthy. Sure. Well, and coming back to that idea of the adaptability versus the sort of like mass closeness that when you when when a self preservation three comes to these relationships, like non self preservation threes can vary can a little bit more easily adapt to whoever's in front of them, you know, like, like, like there's there's it is inappropriate for me to use the term code switching here, but that's the word that came up. So like, like, like, it's easier for non self preservation threes to to to match whatever is going on around them. And when we get to the self preservation place, the relationships become more fixed because they become those resources that it is a resource management. And I need to make sure that this person is in my life because they are the resource that fulfills ex need. Yep. I haven't mentioned the word, but I should have the in terms of self preservation, but preparation is all over this instinct. And preparation is about independence. I don't need you because I've done the work to ensure that I have everything I need to take care of myself first. Right. Threes in this space are like ninja level. Yeah. It is all future problem solving and ensuring that they have all the things that won't make them embarrassed. Yep. My wife has been what we're we're leaving town for a little bit has been working on this for three weeks. Right. Like straight. Yeah. She's been working on it almost exclusively for three weeks, but she's been working on it for six months. I mean meditating on it for sure. A primary being who's going to take care of the these puppies when we're going right now. And but the notice like the level of anxiety pops in some of these spaces and the future problem solving kicks into gear. Yep. And preparation means that we don't need anything from anyone else because because we've taken care of things. Actually, she really pushes into these social alliances that she has. Like the people who are helping us out are people that she has invested in. Right. And you know, is presently calling favors. Right. And I'd also like to say like specifically thinking about this topic and your three spouse who is not dominant in self-preservation. Correct. I see this self-preservation move of her being very concerned about the burden that she is placing on people that she is asking for help. Yeah, there is much more of a relational element in her dealings. And that may not be the self-preservative care. And and notice the self, the preservation of the self points to the image of the self in this way. It's not about the house. It's not about protecting your house. That's not the concern. It's not even really about the dogs. It is part of the dogs. It is about the dogs, but it's not about the dogs. It is largely about this is what I will be expecting from whoever comes into this role. And I do not want them to be overburdened by my expectations. I don't want them to fail at what I've put in front of them. I don't want them to screw up what I've put in front of them because it will damage our relationship. Yeah. And they might see me differently. Right. So this would be a great example of how self-preservation wouldn't work. In that sense, the relationship is a bigger element to things, whereas self-preservation can come in where the person just becomes a tool to get what you need done. And we know what that feels like. And sometimes it's not the worst that somebody who's in a more of a, "I need to take care of my stuff first. Can you do X for me?" We're just a cog in the machine, as it were. And that's a threes can be in that when really on the low side of self-preservation, it's going to look like using people to ensure that they look good and aren't put to shame. The inward focus I think is big for this sort. I think that I think this sort of three can experience shame much more than the others. There are some threes that can navigate the world shamelessly, and it's because they're not really shifting into this gear. They're generally the sorts of people who will have high-profile jobs really be out there really aware of how they are projecting their image. A person can go shamelessly through the world because they can always recast their image because they have the power to do so. I think this sort of gear for the three really cares about being judged by social consensus. Sure. And notice that that also helps us like it necessitates us drawing a line between what is self-preservation and what is narcissism? Yes. Because narcissism is a very different thing from self-preservation. You can still be a really good person who cares about others and is self-giving and all of that stuff and be self-preservation all around the circle. It's harder to like that's not what narcissism is. Right. Narcissism says I'm first at all times and everyone look at me and nobody else matters. The critique for the narcissist is you having gotten in touch with your inner life. That's why you're doing this and that's exactly the move is they haven't done the self-preserving move. A lot of narcissists are quote-unquote quite privileged in terms of their station in life and so apparently are not struggling on the resource side sometimes. Right. And their narcissism can come well clearly everything goes great for me and I'm so famous and praiseworthy because of my quality and you haven't gotten punched in the mouth. Right. You know you haven't had to beg for food as it were. Right. Not so a lot. The self-preserving three isn't going to have and probably isn't going to have that temptation in that way or at least those who live in that instinct that is. Right. Right. Remember they want to overcome vanity by not being vain. Right. Home is sanctuary and nesting takes place for the threes I think especially in this space and again this lines up with their high side stress move. Yeah. I've created a home where I can be at peace and recharge away from the crowd. Yeah. Is something that this is the gear. You know this where you can shift both in terms of the instinct and in terms of the high side stress move. Right. And I also think that home is also a space where they are much more comfortable. Like there's an element of like being a good host that the threes are just sort of naturally good at and so like that home space being something where they can come and rest and be be a part and like like this is this is the safe home base. It is still presentable and it's likely that that threes who are self-preservation are still going to have people in their home but they're also real quick to be like okay now you need to leave because or or or even like Kelly's great line is that if people are staying too long she'll just go to bed. It's like like the people who stay too long in her house is like yeah you can say whatever just I'm going to bed. So like that there's it it's it's easier to sort of assert your own space in that home space. Yep. From the self-preservation. Last thing I wanted to mention is and again there's a bunch of themes that keep waiting to talk about but it would take forever to go through them all I suppose but the balance between independence and connection the move for the three and this is really why it's the you know the counter move is shoring up yourself first so that so that then you can move into the world to connect is what's taking place in this gear and in my mind that's a that's a great balancing move for threes of take a moment to really shore your inner life up first. Yeah that's even elevating your repressed center at some in some ways you know so threes are feeling repressed so if you can get into your inner life first and then move into the world to get to you know to to take hold of the attention that feels like just a better way. Sure. And then I think this is why we can so easily pick on narcissists who don't have a sense of their inner life right because you just you just haven't done the work on on yourself yet there right yeah like that all right well fours are also doing the counter move here into self-protective space that wouldn't be my gut intuition that this would be the counter move um so we were your thoughts in terms of fours being self-preserving because I think that fours in self-preservation have they've done some work to uh smooth out the rough edges um they they've sort of like shortened the the height of the roller coaster and like they they are generally a little bit less expressive because they are preserving their relational energy that's that's where my mind goes also yeah they're less melodramatic and way more masochistic um in Beatrice Chestnut's uh chapter on this like I took a picture of one of the paragraphs and sent it to one of my four friends and he said how did you get a copy of my diary like that and it had to do with like stoic in the face of pain it's yes I think her her label for this is uh tenacity or something like that and it's like it's this idea that uh like leaning really heavily into one aspect of um melancholy which is the long suffering of being an other of missing out and and fours in the self-preservation space have come to terms with their own suffering and are much more comfortable with it than other fours yeah they've they've spun it as a virtue yeah at how how well they can endure all of this notice the set of partedness and the envy there as well and probably not getting expressed that that goes back to what we said in terms of some of the boundaries being created by this kind of four is that they're gonna control their appearance in a certain way but the inner reality looks like like what you're saying right that is one of the interesting things I think about fours in this gear way less expressive and yet the inside the amount of comparison and the why not me is is still moving at a very aggressive clip in their yeah in their hearts yeah and I think there there's an element of um fours who are heavily into the self-preservation like this naturally uh from from a non self-preservation place I think that fours are much easier to share their sort of woe is me they're they're why not me the the the they're the thing that they are are craving at the core of them is attention and and sharing their life with other people having relationships part of how fours express themselves is in in sharing all of these feelings and and and living into the the highest highs and the lowest lows and and the the why not me kind of experience and then when fours pull farther into pull more from the self-preservation place if you're not sharing that you have to do something with that energy and so fours the counter type quote unquote of of fours the the self-preservation instead of sharing it goes like is much more likely to go in search of those things that they lack to to work harder for it's not to overcome but but to pursue the things that they think they are missing out on and this this is a big part of why this is the counter type they they are more likely to pursue those things than to have a conversation with a close friend about not having those things you know yeah yeah the the energy of independence becomes pursuit where the energy for the sexual and social gear is going to be well if i just expect it's going to get converted into self-expression right right as opposed to yeah moving yeah yeah so there's this is a gear for fours where there's a lot of self-reliance here um there's there's resourcefulness here there's probably some preparation and i think fours in this space can actually get bit as you were saying they can get to work and get a little bit more productive for the sake of carving out the unique thing that they want to be in the world right and that's about control and security as well right um and and it's also like has this really particular sort of like tinge of authenticity about it so like there are people in the world who work for the weekend you know they they are proud of how hard they work so that they can party hard yeah there are people in the world who like you and me are really proud of the hard work that we do because working hard is its own reward yep you know less me more you uh there are like there there is this sense of of pursuing something that matters and and working hard for it that is is worth doing and fours from from the place of self-preservation and independence and self-reliance and and not wanting to live in the in the space of lack their authentic expression is going to be in working hard at the things that they're passionate about yeah i think that's where it needs to be go ahead yeah long suffering in the face of their pain is also like i work a crap job that pays my bills so that i can actually do this thing that's really important to me yeah it's this starving artist yes is is this yes and the fact of the amount of passion and energy that they put into the thing that is important that is authenticity yeah even if their crappy pizza job isn't you know yeah right that's where the energy from the four in self-preservative spaces is really going to you know center mm-hmm is in that is in that long suffering i'm carving out the thing that's beautiful unique and that's mine to do yeah kind of space yeah this often is not like the inner focus where for ones that might come out something like physical fitness or you know gain your body and the for a lot of fours i think you you'll hear this as well the discussion of mental health can really emerge in this space yeah where they're not they're health conscious very health conscious actually this is the self-preservative side it's like i'm worried about myself yeah but it's not but well why are you still smoking well that's not yeah what i'm where i'm gonna focus my health on my health concern is on my mental life mm-hmm and all that i'm struggling i'm suffering through right and and and i want to draw a distinction here it's not the mental life in in the way that we mean it when we talk about five six and seven it's the mental it it's the emotional it's the interior life in the emotional space yeah yeah yep um risk aversion on this front could be just going to work right and i'm choosing not i'm choosing to avoid people yeah because they're of their negative effects on my mental health sure you can see that at this person that might be the low side of this gear yeah um social alliances for this type i think of uh we've talked about the smokers corner um i'm gonna but i think i think there's something about finding your people you know the who are the collection of outcasts who i deeply resonate with yeah because we actually get what's going on right and that like joining up feel social at one level but it also can be a self-preserving move right it it's a yeah it's you're creating a safe space it's just relational in nature safe space yeah is all over this yeah it's a unique space because it's different than everything else that may be unsafe and it's filled with outcasts who don't fit in anywhere else yep our misfit island of misfit toys right we're all in this together i love the idea that the self-preserving gear here still is going to have some of the emotional regulation i'm going to keep my shame to myself yeah i'm going to keep my envious meditations to myself um might be a lot of passive aggressive energy again coming sure out of this i'm going to i'm going to do those things that aren't confrontational but that let you know the boundaries and let you know how i perceive everything right without being explicit i feel like that comes out of this gear and and i even think that like these two people any force who lean heavily on self-preservation are going to be in general a bit more even keeled mm-hmm it's not just about not expressing sadness or or uh envy it's it's also about like not getting too crazy with the happiness like it's it's like the bigger expressions are not like they they're all held down a little bit so in general they're just more even keeled people yep than other force on the positive side i think out of this space as self-preservation this may be one of the real through lines into more security um as opposed to seeing the stress move i actually see the security move here like the self-reliance in kind of getting things going and you start to move into your body start to order things you know you start to have some ideals that that you know get built in that you know then you're kind of using some one tools yeah because there's still so much idealism laid on top of it yeah yeah i suppose fours are idealists mm-hmm it really is the case that is your are your ideals get a get into the world and embodied mm-hmm because the temptation i suppose on some fronts for those other gears for the four is just to you know to just emote right and you're the the romantic vision that you have simply gets spoken about but it never gets done mm-hmm yeah on the um like the we can sometimes describe fours as as sort of flighty um the like the melodramaticness the the way that that fours can sometimes be slaves to their emotions because they're so concerned about being authentic they they let their emotions decide how they are behaving at all times and in this self-preservation space because it's it's much more even keel because it's much more sort of tamp down and and they're not as interested in in putting all of that out there okay it now i don't remember what i was saying what did you say right before this well i feel like i was gonna build on what you're saying in that um it can get acted on and that would be healthy if it's not acted on and it's it becomes just internalized and you're living kind of in this melancholy and woe is meism um they're like there's some real negative places i suppose on the here's bringing in the passion of envy you know in that you know comparison can be crushing i imagine right for fours in this gear because of the withdrawal already yeah and and the the lack of of doing the get it's it's easy to sit on the sidelines and watch other people doing something you wish you were doing right you know and and just because of that self-preservation instinct these fours can that it's easier to like like we said pursue the thing that they lack rather than sit and complain about it yeah suppose in this gear you got some preparation you know to access there's still a risk of verse-ness which is maybe unfortunate because it sometimes takes a lot of risk to actually put yourself out there as it were but on the positive i suppose come in full circle like there's there they're long-suffering as you were mentioning i mean that really is a character trait that that is praiseworthy and i think fours fives and nines all kind of you know the withdrawn types that aren't getting into there by often have that and live in that kind of space and are just kind of looking for their opportunity to that opportunity to emerge right bang that's what i got you got anything else on the force nothing to add well apparently this could be a two-parter uh surprised we went just a little while we'll tell we'll hit the this gear the self-preserving instinct for the fives uh six or seven dates here next time and i didn't realize that we hit five types so yeah we have a little bit more breathing room for for the final types make that oh yeah that's a lot longer see this is what you get asking you math we haven't gotten a whole lot of feedback from most of our other stuff i i've been chucked at how many uh messages i've actually gotten on our take on instincts so for those of you disagree with our take on instincts that's entirely fine this is like kind of it's an open topic if you don't like us talking about it as a gear just go ahead and you know the side aside as yes this is your type and most of this material i assume applies to you but um but if you would like to to tell us how wrong we are i love that sort of stuff so you can reach us on instagram and i would love your i'd love your feedback and thoughts we continue to meet uh monthly on zoom if you go to aroundthecircle.org and just click on events you can you can find our our links to to meeting once a month and for the most part tj and i are gonna are gonna shift into doing a lot more interviews on the back half of the year which i'm excited about once we finally take care of this five-year project getting our heads around instincts then then we can do easy stuff of just asking other people to talk well them are masters we can become like most academics and just you know not do any more real work well just sure perfect set the stage and yeah have other people to talk about who they are that sounds amazing to me this work um let's i think that's what i got you anything else i got nothing man he's tj wilson he's officially awesome remember jeff cook who you aren't isn't interesting. 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