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Daily articles from fans, not pundits, weekly podcasts that contain a multiverse of opinions on all things pop culture, exclusive videos and weekly live streams where we laugh, scream and sometimes have technical difficulties, all created by folks like you, the gamers, the film nerds, the TV, bingers, comic book lovers, bookworms and pop culture enthusiasts all in one giant bowl of beautiful disgusting soupy goodness at couchsoup.com Hey everyone, welcome back to Decoding Dragons, couch suits watching now podcast where we bring down all things House the Dragon, where your host, Liza and Michelle, so in their royalty and breaking down the fire for every episode. Yeah, so I have read the Song of Ice and Fire series and binge the entire show multiple times. Liza has seen the show and read Fire and Blood, so when it comes to Thrones and Dragon lore, we got you. So if you were with us last season, welcome back. If you're a newcomer, we're talking about House the Dragon, the big players in the dance and of course, the dragons. So let's go ahead and jump into what happened in season two, episode five called Regent, which speaking of dragons, opened with the pretty, pretty gnarly scene. It was a pretty gnarly scene. And just as a courtesy for all of our listeners and watchers, we do start off with a spoiler warning because we discussed the canon of Fire and Blood the show is based off of. And while we try to save our like big spoilers for later in the episode, you are likely to come across them throughout. So if that's not your thing, then we will see you here after you've seen the episode. And if it is your thing and you want to know all the tea, stick around because we have so much tea and salt and all sorts of things. So yes, spoilers may possibly abound. So let's start with a brief recap. You did mention that it starts off with a very gnarly scene. And that is actually surprisingly enough throwing major shade that is canon. So the armor like used is into his skin because of the heat of the dragon fire. I like that they mentioned it's Valyrian steel, which maybe implies that it's supposed to defend against dragon fire to some degree. It seemed implied based on that comment. And I don't know if that's true or not, but that's kind of what the comment made me think about. But that's canon. And it does like his armor fuses into his skin. So I was sad for him, but happy that they kept that bit. And then I thought like, I'm here for Villainous Aemon. And we are finally getting Villainous Aemon. But the best part about Villainous Aemon is when he had his opportunity. He did really well. Like he took hold of that council and ran it. And I was like, okay. And okay. And this is also hard for me to talk about. However, Kristen Cole made an actual point. He made an action. Crispy Kristen Cole made an actual point when he was looking at Alison and she was like, why didn't you support me? And he's like, well, I thought that I spared you because are you going to preside over all this violence? Because in the show up until this point, Alison has had a very hard time making concrete move forward decisions. And she's been shying away from violence. And at this point, like violence is what you've got. So I don't know if I'm articulating what he meant properly, but when it comes to making hard scary decisions, he thought that he spared her from that. And I think that in that, he made a singular point, which is hard to say. Another aspect of that, I think, is yes, he's saving her from it. But also he realizes that now what they have to do is just terrible and awful. And it's saving her from those decisions, but it's also saving her from having to rule over the ashes. Because when he steps away and says we've given the word of the dragon, so a dragon rider must lead us. Good point. I think it got really real for him. I think Alison wasn't there to see what her actions and auto's actions led to, right? I don't knew what was coming because I don't knew Jaehaerys and Verma Thor, so I don't knew. But Alison hasn't seen it, but he was on the ground. And that's why on the ground scenes are so important in battles for characters, because like Kristen Cole witnessed firsthand what they have gotten themselves into. And I think that it was a good moment for him to like call that out. And like, I hardly ever agree with him, but in that moment, I was like, you know what? Fine. I agree. We're doing a really nice, consistent theme there, because in the original series with Jamie Lannister and the loot train scene, the first time anybody has seen Dragonfire when Drogan destroyed the loot train, and you saw how Jamie, Jamie, Jamie, how Jamie went back to Circe and was like, you don't understand. Like people were burning and their flesh was falling off of their bows. That's basically the exact same theme that Kristen was telling Alison. And I like that if you're not raised with these dragons, which we've talked about before, it's a sight to behold, and it's terrifying. So these you know, experienced battle warriors are coming in or leaving a battle with a dragon going, whoa, this is game changing. And it is it. And I will say that that is what I liked most about Aegon the Conqueror, because canonically, he only used his dragons when he absolutely had to. He didn't wield them like, you know, like a red button, you know, like he only used them when he absolutely had to. And I think that it shows so much restraint and positive characteristics for a character that knows they have like the killing blow, but won't strike it unless they absolutely have to. And you know, I do understand, like I don't want anybody that I didn't understand why Reneera and Raines and all of them were hesitant to release the dragons, because as we all know, based on Amund, you can't always control them. But at the same time, like you started it, so someone's going to have to finish it at some point. But kind of, I guess, moving on to restraint, I suppose. I am I have a lot of things to say about Damon's character in my canon correction, because they are just, we got I can't just let it slide. So and I, I can't let it slide. But Reneera and Jace made plans for what's called the red sewing, which is where they get all the dragon seeds together to come get some dragons. We see either sea smoke or silver wing. I think it was sea smoke. I thought it was silvering first, but I think it was sea smoke now. And then Corley's and Bela have a really good conversation. That one was good. I was here for that. And they did it differently because in the books, like Corley's blows up at Reneera, which is kind of like, in my opinion, it's justifiable. Like I think his anger was justifiable. And it could still be coming. It could. It could. But I think that they resolve it the same way in the books. Like I think she makes him hand, I think. Oh, they kind of they kind of made that worked together while also giving Bela and her grandfather a good moment. And I think she was, I like that they kind of retconned Rene's a little when they were like, she's a Targaryen princess and she died amidst blood and fire the way you're supposed to as a Targaryen. So they did a little bit of a retcon there. And let's see, what else? I guess it's good to see the green family having some tension and issues amongst themselves. Ayman's doing a good job, in my opinion. As Regent, he stepped in and stepped up as much as Bela as Ayman can. And we got a really cool shot of Caraxes where his head was behind the horse. Like I was like, this, this one shot is Game of Thrones. Excuse me, that was awesome. Yeah, I liked that a lot. That was really fun. Yeah, that was just that was just fear inspiring. And I was like, this is because Caraxes is so cool. And I'm not seeing enough of him in my opinion. That's just me. That's just me. I just want to see more Caraxes because I like him. But that was a, that was a moment where I'm not talking about what they did afterwards though. I did like the Reneera and Jay's conversation because I like their interaction. They have great interactions together. He's trying to prove his experience, I guess, and prove his, his worth to his mom, but is also the queen. And it's not an annoying Joffrey way, right? Like he's actually being helpful. He was helpful. And I was like, okay, because personally, I was like, I don't remember Jay's ever going to the twins. I was like, I don't know what they're doing. You saw me last episode. I don't know what they're doing. But the plan sounded smart because you got armies marching and they have to get across the crossing. So the phrase are going to be important. So the plan made sense. That was new. But that one singular part made sense. I'm trying not to be the biggest hater in the world here. The only thing I did do some research prior to the episode, and the only thing that brought me some concern is that it is the twins. It is the phrase. It is the Riverlands. If they're making an agreement with the phrase, we kind of already know how that has happened in the past. He's a young prince. Rob Sark was a young prince. So like, are there parallels? Are there not parallels? There's no wedding. Yes. Right. Right. I got to be honest, I remember large parts of fire and blood, but I don't remember the phrase specifically. So I try to read before, like what I expect the episode to cover, I try to read it every before each season, right? So I kind of like refresh my memory. I don't remember the phrase, but I am kind of along for the ride here because I think the plan to control the crossing makes sense in a time of war because we all know how important the crossing is. It was a good call back at least. If that was the only thing that it was for, then it fine. I'm fine with that. I like his moment where he was like, you're afraid of a dragon that's leagues away when mine is right over there. I was like, all right, Jace, but he does do a good job at this time in fire and blood, like Rania, is currently still recovering in fire and blood because her, her miscarriage was incredibly devastating. So she is still recovering and Jace is like calling a lot of shots. And the book does say that he proves himself during this time. So I think that this is a good way to show that. And I also like the look that she gave him where you just knew that if it had been today, she would have called him by his first middle and last name. He's not even named. Yes, like he would have been in some trouble, but they had like a nice, I guess, mother-son moment where they both talked about the red sewing and canonically it is Jace's idea. So they stayed with that. Like they're giving Rania more to do, like you said, but I like they gave Jace that moment also. So that was cool. Yeah. I guess we go ahead and get into our blood section. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Okay. You know, I totally forgot that the blood section is my place to ask questions. So I have my questions. What are your thoughts on them bringing Malice's head into King's Landing? Unnecessary. I love that Kristen Gold, like don't they realize we've won the battle and everybody's just in shock because yes, it's very disrespectful. And also I doubt people have seen a dragon that up close before. So they really didn't understand the size and the grandeur. And yeah, that was disrespectful as hell. It was. And so in a fire and blood, when they bring Malice in, like the small folks start streaming out of the city because like that one person said, like Reneera will answer this. And so they just leave. And that's why they had to shut the doors in the show. They shut the doors in the book too because like everyone is leaving your city, which is showing that to like everyone that you have made a huge, huge mistake. And so they shut the doors. I don't know why Hugh is still in the doors when they shut the doors because he's got to go over to Dragonstone. But I was wondering about shutting the doors. That confused me. Like they were actually trying to just keep them in. Yes. My theory is canonical. They shut the doors. My theory is because everyone leaving and being so afraid of retaliation is a show of weakness. Like you can't protect your city. We're all leaving screw you. I think that it's because it's an admission of guilt and wrongdoing. Like it's an admission that you have screwed up this badly. That's my understanding of it. From a tactical position, maybe it's a Cersei move because they're. That's what it seemed like. Yeah. Maybe it's a Cersei move. Like maybe they know that Reneera is less likely if it's full of small folk, which I mean, Cersei was a something, but that was smart. What? Right. Yeah. Speaking of, I guess, smart, tactical moves, what are your thoughts as for Aemon as green region? I think he did good when he stepped up the council. I know Alison got sidelined, but what did you think? No, I thought he was great. The look that he gave his mother was like full of daggers, but it set up two different things in the show, right? Which is that Alison's kind of being cast away and Aemon is taking the rise, which finally we need a Cersei. I feel like Aemon's going to be a Cersei and he has a freaking the largest dragon that we have on the show. No, I think he's great. And he commands present or he can let me start over his presence commands confidence and he whatever he says people are following. Like I just I really liked his character in this season in this episode. Me too. Like I am just like finally and I think that a lot of what was I was scrolling through like to kind of get everybody sentiments online and I saw something where it was like Alison and them kind of started this war because the realm would not accept the queen and she's still trying to step up his queen dowager and queen regent in her son's place and then was surprised they turned her down even though that was kind of how it all started in the first place. So that's a good point. And I also like the parallel between mother-son relationships like Jace is coming to his mom with ideas. He's like listen this is my idea. Let's find a way to make this happen. Let's work together. And Ayman is like got it covered mom. Thanks. So but at the same time like I I do think one thing that I think was not touched on on the episode was based on the historical time frame it is set in. They are using the women aren't expected to rule as a like as a dig and a jab and the show. And Reneera had a point there's been peace in their lifetime so no one's really seen any war but sons of big houses and sons of kings are raised with classes that educate them on warfare that Reneera also says like she kind of admits it she's like I actually was a cut bear. I didn't take the classes like they had masters there to teach you warfare. So while they may not be tried in the field there's a level of education that is not universal based on your societal role at the time. I also read something prior to the episode that Alice Alice at morning at Aegon's bedside was more Alice at morning her being pushed off of the green council and was less about being nice to Aegon and hoping that he heals. That's true because she might have had Aegon kind of a little bit leash but she does not have Ayman so no but that makes sense because I was like okay there's two ways we can play this you can be oh I really messed up as a mom like look at my baby they got hurt or what you said and personally I like what you said better I like she's more but hurt that she's kicked off the council she did not stay when he said mummy she did not stay she's like she didn't even hear him she's just like oh oh there goes any influence like because Aegon is more malleable than Ayman and we kind of see Cersei go through that with Joffrey like you can you as queen dowager or like mother the king can have some controlled until they don't let you anymore and then that's where things start to kind of like go off the rails for you as the queen so that's one of my favorite seriously moments is when she realizes that she has zero control over her insane son and then she's just like yes I gotta love him as is but Cersei's character with like Lina Lina Lina Lina Hylie did such a good job like you can see her understand just how far Joffrey will go and still she's like but you're my kid I'm gonna love you regardless because you're my kid with the person that I love like her her and Jamie are together but you know okay let's go ahead and get into the fire section because I have questions for you okay let's go I have thoughts okay so we've touched on it very briefly about there was a major theme this episode about female and women excuse me females and women not being fit to rule I made a comment in our show notes that Bela is a badass just because like she's willing to suck out to me with her and Coraless's conversation but are we gonna get a payoff for all of the hits on women ruling okay this is a huge spoiler so if we are now in our spoilery section and if you really don't want to know this is about to be how the dance ends so please skip like 10 minutes right Michelle if you want to you can take your headphones off okay all right Michelle's gonna take your headphones off please skip in about to come back in 10 minutes right okay first of all Bela is a badass she's fantastic the conversation with her and Coraless was really good I like that she gave her nod to her Targaryen history the dance does not end with a woman on the throne that's my answer and that's all I'm saying so there was a lot packed into this episode and they paralleled Alison Unira's feelings of being cast aside uh like Alison being pushed aside from the green council because the Amund and then Reniro not feeling important enough that her council so what are your thoughts on Amund ignoring his mom well Aegon called out for Alison and Reniro was being a parent to a person who isn't even her son her daughter okay right uh Bela um so you were mentioning that Alison wasn't mourning Aegon's pain so much as she was like mourning her loss of control on the council because she doesn't have the reins on Amund like she has on Aegon so I think I think is in character for Amund to be like listen I got this like I've been he has literally been preparing for this his whole life because in the season when he's like just because you're the firstborn means you get to be king but I worked for it so he has been prat he has he's been ready and I feel like I'm excited to see like him get his payoff if that makes sense because firstborn doesn't always mean you're best qualified it's just how it worked but well that's why that's what Alison said last episode is like do you think wearing the crown and automatically imbues you with wisdom right and he looked surprised and I was like well but no I think firstborn does not always mean you're best qualified and I do think that there are some sets of siblings that like just because you're older doesn't mean you're the older sibling like for instance Nathan Drake like Nathan is the younger brother but he because of his life experience he's the older brother to Sam and I like that dynamic I've always been like appreciative of like this is a switch from the normal and I think that it really plays into their characters very well so I think it was the whole scene I was very telling because Aegon still has he cares about his mother he calls out for her Alison is either morning how badly she screwed up and kind of pushed him to go do this a little to a degree if you can blame her for that because I think he was kind of drunk so I don't really want to blame her for that exactly but it wasn't trickling down with her for a lot because it's her you right and you right and I think Ayman it's like I think he's been thinking about what to do for a long time so I mean at least we have a hand on the reins for Team Green at least somebody somebody has it yeah do you think that Aegon heard her call or excuse me do you think Alison heard Aegon call out for her I don't think she did because I barely heard him missing all right so I have to wear I have to watch it with subtitles just to make sure I don't miss anything and so I just saw the numbing I mean say I watched you because some of the I have a hard time based on like just the sound balance I have a hard time hearing so like the sound balance in the show itself I have a hard time hearing so I watch the subtitles too and I barely heard him so I don't think she heard him because she was already kind of like at the door and he can barely breathe as it is so I don't think she heard him yeah I I don't think so but it did I like that they are separating the differences between the two right like Ayman's like yeah peace out mom while Aegon's like no mommy I need you help I'm hurting but even though she's never really been that nurturing begin with but no but I think like there's always that part that's still gonna wish your mom was you know like I feel like for Aegon there's always that part that's gonna wish she had been and I am somebody I think Martin I saw a snippet somewhere I don't want to put words in his mouth but mentioned that in the way that Viserys kind of Patty Considine kind of brought Viserys more to life I don't know if I said his name right but he brought Viserys more to life and the book does and gave him more nuance I think Aegon's actor is giving Aegon more nuance than the book gave him as well so like we're seeing multiple facets whereas in Fire and Blood there's only really time to cover some aspects of his personality and you kind of infer based on his decision making and I think that the show is giving us like more aspects of his personality we see both the petulant and you know kind of out there side also the the more vulnerable side as well and I am appreciating that portrayal I really liked Amand and Helena meeting each other in the throne room that was a that was a scene so um this is not canon to my knowledge there are people inside the fandom who think that Amand and Helena at some point had an affair so because Targaryens obviously incest is wrong for Targaryens it's a normal part of their life so some people out there think that Amand and Helena had a thing and that was the first thing I thought of when I saw it but I don't think the show is going with that so I just think that she was like maybe because she has like the dreams she's like is it worth it because people think that she knows what's coming even further down the line like they saw some Easter eggs that kind of suggests that she has seen much more than just the dance so I think that kind of adds nuance to her scene as well cool okay all right I got two more questions like full of questions for you today okay okay all right this one's going to be a little touchy um I'm interested in your opinion that the episodes that we've kind of had some issues with this season you know we've we're getting away from book canon um all of them have been directed by women hmm do you have any thoughts on that um that's actually a really good question and I do know I do know it is a sensitive topic um my personal thoughts on the matter is that I think that it's difficult for a show to confront misogyny the way house the dragon does without kind of slipping into misandry and I personally wish that they would find a more balanced approach because I'm of the opinion that we all work best when we work together so and I think that it makes you stronger when you can work together as you know pieces of a whole major disclaimer I am not saying this is the case I am just making like a a likening to how things happen sometimes in books and shows in writing books there's this thing called a self-insert character which is where the author self-inserts themselves into a character and it the book kind of becomes like the author trying to talk directly to you the whole time instead of let it happen organically like let the story give the message the author like gives the message and it kind of makes it feel more like a self-insert power fantasy or a self-insert fanfic you know so and sometimes shows can veer into that as well where the director has a message they want to say but instead of letting these show talk about things organically and like the theme of the show come through people will put their themes like onto it and that made a little of what we were experiencing I obviously don't know any of the directors personally so I can't like throw tomatoes or anything and I'm not it's just an observation that I and this the fire and blood does deal with this so it is canonical that it is because she's a woman is why she's you know so contested with the throne so like the I want to call it I think it's called male primogeniture which is the sun comes first thing in history yes this contest with it is canonical so I'm not saying they should not be talking about it I'm just saying that I think you do have to be careful how heavy-handed you layer your themes I think I'll probably leave it at that there you go that was a really good way to say that I do also agree with your disclaimer we're not saying this is what they're doing and it is a really touchy subject but it is also an important conversation because I'm having this conversation with people outside of us of the episodes that are slow or more conversation bound than the theme of women aren't allowed to do this have been directed by the women whereas the episodes that hit the hardest during like the original series you know like Battle of the Bastards or Hardhome were directed by men and so without really trying to make it a gender war that's not all what we're doing not at all or just realizing that is there a potential theme that we're getting away from the source material because their ideas are different than what the author is creating then the same conversation we had last week then don't say it's from based on that novel right well like I said the the canon does deal with that like it does deal with you know Reneera is you know so contested point of the dance yeah but I do I can understand that some things I think our gazes and how we approach source material affect things I think that maybe certain gazes might be affecting the way that the canon is portrayed and that could be why there's such a thematic difference between each episode sure so and also we we can't discount experience I think the individual who did Rooks rest has experience on the main season so I do not know how many directors have worked on the original project but there may also be an element of experience inside the Game of Thrones community and fandom that could also contribute to a difference in tone and theme but um I personally enjoy fiction best when the themes are subtle and suggested and like you are allowed your interpretation and I feel as if maybe these themes are being laid on a little heavy-handed and you made a good point one time between sections kind of off-camera about the comedy that you know in Game of Thrones like Tyrion is one of the most beloved characters and he always had a really good way of inserting the comedy to increase the tension um but it was still kind of funny and we could chuckle at it whereas the comedy in this season so far of House of the Dragon just seems a little forced it doesn't seem quite as real um it seems too much of a of a joke and not let's increase the subtle hints of things that are happening right just lay out this joke and ha ha it's funny and now move on yeah there's a scene that stuck out me particularly it was a scene where the brackets come to treat with Damon at night right and um they have to like push this guy out of the way because he doesn't want to stop eating and to me that's kind of leaning towards slapstick comedy which is not what Game of Thrones is and then the the way that they perform the scene where the brackets were like approaching him it just it didn't feel real like something about it had like thrown me out and it could be the blocking it could have been the performance it could be the fact that they are walking up to a dragon rider whose dragon is very likely perched on a castle on a tower right and but it just there are moments that just throw you out of the intensity and the realism of the show and it's comes across as not as serious as it should be because the dance was it's literally it's the dying of the dragons like house the dragon is at top power when it starts and they have nothing when it's over and it's serious and things are being played for jokes and um i have some you know brack and blackwood Damon things to note later but i wish that the story would stop being nerfed i guess like i just feel like yeah it doesn't have to be a joke it doesn't have to be funny and you're talking to someone who makes funny like i make awkward jokes all the time like even i'm like it should i make dad jokes all the time and even i'm just like just let it ride left right well you did bring up heron hall and Damon so i have a question about Damon and his mama yeah let's just go ahead and get into the dragon dream spandum correction thing because fandam person can encourage you because i have things to say about Alyssa my baby girl has been disrespected disrespected let's get into it before i like i checked fire and blood like as soon as these episodes are done i want you to know i have i opened the book and i checked stuff because i tried michelle i tried to separate and i couldn't i couldn't do it um so the brack and blackwood conflict appears to be happening backwards because the brack and blackwood conflict is mentioned at the opening of the chapter and then we have Damon taking heron hall later in that chapter so like this conflict between the brackens has been happening for a long time but to me the way they played it in the show made Damon look kind of dumb kind of weak because he bluffed him and then had to deal with the bluff and it that made no sense to me if you are prepared to burn them i understand that maybe it's a bluff i get that but if you're a Targaryen with a dragon you're bluffing you kind of have to go through with it because that's kind of the whole point of the fact that you have the dragons backing you is the fact that you can use the dragons if you want as the whole point of the luring dragon threat but it happened opposite in the show so the blackwoods have a conflict and then Damon takes heron hall so in my opinion and i am not a director but in my opinion it would have been more impactful if the brackens were having this conflict and they were raising because in the books they used reneera's banners right so they could have self-proclaimed for reneera and then done this done this thing with the brackens and then Damon could have come in and set stuff straight like and then it would have shown that he had prowess he had political knowledge he had battle prowess he had political knowledge he had people skills because i do i i do like the day and can you find a pillow to put over his face like i think that's in character but like he has been around for a minute he grew up secondborn to the king he's been in war like there's no reason for him to be making these blunders and i know that heron hall is messing with him but there was no reason to play him as stupid and weak just then when you had this other alternative where he could have come in and set the record straight and still accomplish the same end but the hair hall they're messing with Damon is actually getting kind of old i'm super into a spooky story i'm super into like a witchy story let's get a witch involved into a into the canon i guess um but the whole hair and hall messing with Damon is just every he gets one scene per episode of am i hallucinating am i dreaming am i now having sex with my mother like what is happening so my theory there's a gap for Damon there's so Damon takes hair at hall and we don't hear from him for a little while because other things are happening like rook's rest is happening uh the dragon seats and the red sewing is happening and the gullet happens okay there is a gap for Damon and my theory is they must be doing this to add like dramatic tension and to give Damon stuff to do but there's literally a part in the book that said you know they talk about who alice rivers is and they say something to the effect of whoever she was Damon must have been immune to her charms because little and less is heard of her during Damon's time at hair and hall and this does not look like someone who's immune to charms and someone made a point that just because nothing's heard doesn't mean nothing happened but like it's a conscious choice to go against that phrase in the book and give him this journey that i think like if you're trying to show that he's feeling guilt about stuff like i think you can do that organically you right i don't think you need someone to like hit you over the head over and over again i feel like he shows more maturity if the character can find that place on their own you know i think it's a really good point of what we were mentioning earlier about the the episodes of their they're not leaving it up to suggestion and up to question like the bike does it would be totally fine if we saw Damon take air and hall meet alice rivers and then not see him for three episodes that would be fine because there's parts in game of thrones that you don't see some of your favorites like there are some episodes that don't move john forward or that don't move Danny forward and so and you're happy to see them when they come back on the screen and i i really think it adds character depth like obviously you do need something to spur change in a character like there needs to be something that causes them to think about something differently but i i never even got the impression that he flew there because he was upset with veneera like i genuinely thought that he flew there because he he was going to raise an army and i think watching him raise an army would have been so cool like watching him unite the riverlands everybody's banners are flocking in he has to deal with you know supply and demanded hair and haul like he's a basically a general or a commander he's king consort like let's let him let's watch him be this thing you know like let's watch Damon be Damon like it's Damon like he's literally like this almost mythical figure in fire and blood everyone knows who Damon Targaryen is and people flock to him because he was Damon Targaryen and we're not that is not the Damon that we're getting yeah and i'm i'm so excited for you i told calen this i was like you have to read fire and blood because you need to know like i like i need you to have the image of who they're supposed to be because like he was people came to fight for veneera because of him because it was Damon that was there and he has a he has like respect like he he's kind of out there and like i'm pretty cool sometimes but he can command respect and i feel like once again like they were doing him and i just want them to stop nerfing Damon and which kind of brings me to Damon's mother and i'm gonna i'm gonna go on a miniature lord dump but i'm gonna make it fast because i can't even see how long we've been recording but i'm gonna make it fast okay jaharies had kids two of those kids were balen and elissa Targaryen's intermarie it's gross for them it's normal balen and elissa had viceras and damon balen was this big warrior guy who flew vaguar and i think that he flew against dorin during um a time that dorin tried to invade elissa she likes to get outside she likes to get her hands dirty she loved flying her dragon was malise which i think adds context to rook's rest because these dragons have flown together so often um but elissa died in child like she died from complications of child birth after damon so to me like the whole blood streak with the hand kind of implied that it was an ima situation and like he had killed her but that's not right because she died not right she died after damon and balen to my opinion loved elissa so much that he didn't he did not ever take another wife until he died from i think appendicitis and balen dying and amen his brother dying is what spurred the great counsel because all the king's heirs were gone so he had to name a new heir that wasn't like a direct heir if that makes sense so which is why it went to viceras because he's first born son of like first or second born son so like it was as close as they could get to like a direct lineage um rainies was first born daughter of first born son so but got skipped over because she's a female right so like that's why there is that fear there is that theme of because you're a woman you can't rule that's canonical because rainies is first born daughter of first born son viceras was first born son of second born son and that was therein lies the drama you know i can understand why damon was elissa's favorite son because he had so much of her personality like she was vibrant and fearless she took them flying like shortly after they were born like elissa was a stop at nothing always here for the thrill always having a fantastic time kind of person and they kids personalities show up earliest children so his personality would have gotten along with her is a lot better than viceras because you can see viceras is like a much more jolly kind like reserved person of course she was his favorite son because like right he was funny he was human statement right but the edit is complex to me doesn't make sense like i understand it losing your mom at a young age can cause you to have like some trauma some issues etc to work through as an adult but i have no idea why they felt it necessary to shoehorn and edit this complex in here and make that happen and disrespect both them and and elissa because wild hagarians might intermarie to my knowledge they never married down like it's never parent and kid so i almost rage quit the episode like i almost walked out of the room i almost stopped watching the whole thing i was like not my girl no if you remember last episode or the episode before when they were introducing old the white and he just like dropped the fact that he's a Targaryen it was because of balon balon balon yeah that still bothers me but i'm like i try to be logical right and i'm just like okay so the gaps in logic are like okay so Targaryen princes are probably out doing what a gone and day what a gone and a men are doing like it's but that to me the logic jump between balon was probably screwing around to damon and his mother in a scene together like to me this is not a okay logic jump like this is something that we've seen on screen before we've seen amen and egg on and all of them kind of screw around some brothels damons done it like that's we've seen it on screen so balon kind of doing all this before maybe before he elissa got married you never know or maybe after you know it's it is what it's game of thrones but like never never ever ever Targaryen parent and child like that's just a line to me obviously there's lines in game of thrones you do not cross and realize that you cross in the show but this is just like somehow that took it too far for even game of thrones yes do not do game of thrones at home do not do it but no it was just like the logic jump was just not not there for me like it's there's no gain in supporting it there's absolutely nothing other than the fact that maybe you know she did die when he was young and that might give him some sort of like trauma to work through as an adult there's not a single thing in it that would imply that he would have this type of psychological thing happened and people can be like oh alice was messing with him i was like well that is a screwed up way to mess with somebody why yeah it was so unnecessary i agree i feel like alice is getting her point across just fine with laina and last two episodes yeah like i feel like she's been getting her point across and she's not even supposed to be getting the point across with daman amen is the one she's getting the point across with if you know what i mean so it's just uh it's something so and i think i already talked about like my last canon correction there is a gap for daman between him taking her and hall and the next time we see him so i do think they are adding stuff and changing his character to add dramatic tension and uncertainty because book daman was holding it down like book daman had armies book daman had the riverlands book daman had hair and hall book daman has caraxes and like he was incredibly useful book daman had good ideas he supported ranira at the council he had strategic maneuvers and maybe maybe the show just wouldn't last as long as they wanted it to if daman was doing as good as daman would actually do like that's my opinion yeah i we touched on that prior to recording that i do think they're spreading it a little too thin if it would have if they didn't have the promise of the next couple seasons already obviously a money grab also that's when it starts to lose it for me is when they're doing it less for the love of the lore and more for the money grab to make it last more as you can and break in the cast yes absolutely it's the cash cow right now and so if they could have fit everything i don't know maybe into two seasons but jam packed every episode i would have been more happy with that yeah and like i personally i i know it's hard to do a three-act structure with a duology but you could make it work like you could have made it work in three seasons you could have if you really wanted to you could have made it work in ten episodes and just make them an hour and a half each because we got hour and a half two-hour episodes for season eight like make it a special like they make specials make it a special event right because adding filler when you don't know what to do with the filler just kind of messes with your trajectory it messes with your big moments so that's that's my thing i i agree with you i feel like it could have been shorter and i feel like we're getting filler we don't need that doesn't add what it's supposed like sometimes you can do good filler like Beyla and Corley's his conversation was good filler that it's different in the book but this version was good because Beyla got to have her badass lines and Corley's got to have like you could see his grief struggle he was handling it the best way he knew how and he was able to kind of understand where Beyla was coming from he got he knew his wife was like she was about that life from the start so it's this respect for rainy's and he accepts the proposition to be hand right so like that's good filler and the Beyla Reneera conversation was excellent yeah and it's like because i do think that you i think that they could have they had multiple shots of like grief and mourning throughout the show i feel like they could have had that moment and that would have been like that one and the Corley's one would have covered it kind of absolutely so i think they could have opened like with that one if they wanted to but you know you do have to see your parents your characters process stuff and i think that was a good moment of okay i need to understand what's happened like because she's a teenager like they need to understand what happened in a way that's good and beneficial and healing for them to move on instead of just internalizing everything and i think that was good to see so like there's there's good moments and there's even like Beyla i can't say what it is but fire of letter readers might get my hint Damon here they scream at Heron Hall and he looks around and he sees Alice but i have a theory about what the scream was like and if if they did that then like they have the audacity to have these fantastic moments like okay then that are just like hidden inside all this filler and so you got to really look for them but if you look for them there's a few there's there's a few things i'm trying to help me the world's biggest hater right now i know i i don't want this to be such a negative show or it at all but i think it is important to describe the canon differences um and the point of the show is our opinion also yeah i mean all press is what is it what is the saying all press is good press right like right right yeah so what you know people can agree and disagree with but like he said like it we're here because we love this show like we do decoding dragons well hang on a minute we're here because we love Game of Thrones right we're here on decoding dragons because like we are we just love this fandom and we do it because we love it and i think it's i think it's okay to defend something that you love absolutely even if your opinions differ from other people around the world because that's what makes a fandom alive right having differing opinions right and it keeps getting talked about and topical yeah um so this was episode five which means we have three more yeah so what do you think is going to happen in the next episode so based on the pacing so to me this season has been big thing filler episode big thing filler episode yeah like kind of that order so i think um that this to me was kind of a filler episode right so i think that if we have three more we should get the red sewing which is where the dragon seeds come and claim the dragons you will have to have gotten out of king's landing somehow so he and elf should be there maybe nettles maybe she'll show up we'll see um we should get the dragon z's and that would leave enough room for them to have their um their reaction filler episode because there is a formula that's i think it's like an you have an action and a reaction in book writing like a thing happens your character to react to it a thing happens they react to it so that would leave time for the filler episode and then they could end on the gullet in my opinion they've been they have been kind of glossing over important conversations that are setting up what's happening around the westeros continent yeah i zoom in on allocint during important conversation happening yeah i actually made a point about two two things on that um that allocint scene i i paused it in the middle of that scene i hated that scene that was so unnecessary i know what they were trying to accomplish like her losing power well i bugged me bugged me so much i think we've just seen that expression from her so much at this point but also like they were talking about really important stuff like the stuff that was happening in the subtitles is the dance the dragons and they have been doing that consistently like these pieces that are moving are being talked about in conversation while people are going somewhere while something so i was gonna have a character like they are sidelining the pieces moving that make the dance work because they were talking about the blockade which sets up for the gullet they're talking they were even talking about leading up to rucks rest that way they were talking about the black and the black with the blackwoods and the brackets so they're sidelining the pieces moving and instead keeping us locked in the pov of like the royal family when there are characters like bloody bin and um alice and blackwood that we have not met yet that we should be meeting like we don't have to stay in royal pov like we had the hound we had um various we had little finger povs like we don't have to stay locked in the royal family there's other people out there who are doing cool stuff what so well that was that's the second aspect is they are kind of just rushing over the blockade affecting king's landing you know it they've talked about it but it needs to be a little bit bigger of an issue because it is actually a strategic you know war thing yeah no I agree like they say that you know foods running low and like but they're saying it to me it feels like it's like a side effect yep instead of something is actively happening to rock king's landing and the king is not the king is not doing anything yeah a good way to say it yeah yeah like there could be like actual discontent like they're starving us why aren't they doing something about it I can look at like we could have gone to the docks with somebody like he could have been to the docks for his iron work stuff to go get something and we could have seen the blockade like literally stopping trade and like it would have been cool not just cool but it would have grounded us in what's actually happening to these characters like you don't have to be locked in royal pov to understand the dance yeah it would have made a point yeah it made it real for us like we've talked to allen we have been to the docks etc but like I do I feel like I'm rambling but I do agree like I think they could have made the pieces of the dance equally as important as the interpersonal drama like yeah there you go it's literally a dance like there are countermeasures and counter moves being traded back and forth by everyone and like there is enough there that if you understand warfare to some degree you can extrapolate and make stuff really interesting yeah no I think that you said that it really well and it's a really good point because that's our biggest issue this season right is everything's kind of being pushed to the side I really like the way you said that it's a side effect instead of something that's actively happening well thank you thank you yeah no um I know that you have discussions with like your family I know I have discussions with mine and um and they have such good ideas and I know everybody out there watching stops afterwards like chat with their family and friends like are we all feeling the same way so I do want everybody to know that like we are not here to be haters at all we are not like I actually quite the opposite yes like I I want to be so hype about all because like I love Game of Thrones like we love it we're here for it love but we just really want them to do justice to these characters that are they just loom so large in our minds and I know that that's kind of the point of Game of Thrones that stuff can be so large but so human but there's a way to do it where it's genuinely impactful for your audience like Game of Thrones did it like that musical chairs with Korean and Cersei did it Danny does it Jamie and John do it and it's just like I just want it back I want the magic back so hopefully we will have some magic return I know they're gonna have a big scene setting finale so I think that'll be the gullet and hopefully we'll have more to talk about next week I hope so because we're gonna be back every week uncapped soup.com during season two to recap the latest episode of House of the Dragon yeah be sure to hit that like button ring the bell and let us know in the comments what lore you'd like us to dive into next as you see I go on lore dumps about characters that we haven't even seen and why dragons know each other and that's why you're here yeah so um let us know uh team green how you're feeling about amen as regent um I don't know what it's gonna do to the algorithm but does anybody else have a problem with Alyssa being Alyssa and Damon both being disrespected like this because um I know people are just like everybody is supposed to see their favorite character win I'm just like I don't necessarily want to see my favorite character win I just want to see them be treated right so I'm just like anybody else have a problem with it is it just me am I just being a stickler because I love being a stickler and that is why I'm here all right uh but thank you everybody for being here and we will see you next week with all of iron soup bye [Music]
In our breakdown of House of the Dragon’s “Regent,” we examine Alicent’s loss of her council, Rhaenys’ cherished memory, the confusion of the Bracken/Blackwood situation, and speculate on why HOTD feels so different from GOT. Plus, we’re diving into some deep topics, correcting the shoehorned Oedipus complex (if that's even the right phrase?), and examining the importance of subtlety to the theme in storytelling. Don’t miss out as, every week, we spill the "royal-tea" and break down the fire in each episode of Decoding Dragons, a show and podcast all about the epic lore fueling House of the Dragon. One thing’s for sure: we got opinions, and we ain’t afraid to share ’em.
