(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Good, the Bad and the Classics, the movie review podcast where we decide if I feel meets our criteria of good, bad or classic. And today we are talking about Taxi Driver from 1976 directed by Martin Scorsese, Sergeant Robert De Niro, Jodie Foster, Civil Shepherd, Albert Rooks, Harvey Cartel and Peter Ball, among others. I'm joined by my regular co-host, John and Al today. Hello there, good afternoon, evening, morning, depending on where you are and listening. - Hello everyone. - Is that for our worldwide audience? - That's for our worldwide audience, of course. - 'Cause we're massive. (laughing) - Everywhere we go. (laughing) - Hopefully someday. But yes, we are talking about Taxi Driver today and as usual, we'll start off with our backgrounds on the film, who would like to go first today? - This was another listener request, wasn't it? - It was, yes, yes, apologies. This was from Sue, if you're listening Sue, we're doing this one for you, so we hope you enjoy it. Well, we'll see what we say about it first. (laughing) We could savage it, but. - Oh dear. - Yeah. - Oh, okay, well there's a little clue. - Goodness. - Like I said, we'll talk about our backgrounds, who's going first today? - Well I mean, I may as well say the same thing. I say every week I've never seen this film before. - We're gonna get a little tape recording. (laughing) We just click at this point. Option one or option two. - Ben made me watch it, or I've never seen it. Or I've never watched it, but Ben made me watch it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I saw it in the '80s, I think, first time. Obviously when it first came out, I was far too young, and I've never seen it a number of times since. - My background is I saw this, well, quite a while ago now, when I was quite young, and, well, preview from our thoughts when I first watched it, I did not think much of this film at all. I did not get why people considered it. Classic, I did not get why people considered it one of Scorsese's masterpieces of his career. I thought it was dull, boring, and yeah, just did it get it. - Interesting. - Wherever my thoughts have changed, we will discuss. - Yeah, wait, wait. (laughing) - I can see why he thought that when he first watched it. - Oh, great, there we go, sorry. (laughing) Sorry, so it might get better. John's here. - I'm indeed I am. (laughing) - In New York City, Vietnam veteran Travis Bickle takes a job as a night shift taxi driver to cope with his chronic insomnia and loneliness, frequent in adult movie theaters and keeping a diary in which he consciously attempts to include phrases such as, "You're only as healthy as you feel." He becomes disgusted with the crime and the urban decay that he witnesses in the city and dreams about getting the scum off the streets. So what do we think of this opening to taxi driver? - Amazing, the smoke light, smoking mirrors, and it's just kind of showing the hidden dreadfulness of New York City of the time, I think. I think it's an incredible opening, the music is fabulous. - I do like the jazz music, I'll give it that. - 13 Harbin wrote music for so many different films. Psycho and all of those real classic scores that you know he probably had something to do with it. - Yeah, the decision to open on smoke and then the taxi coming out from it and then the, I'm just gonna call it hazy imagery, is it like they've brought the blurry lights and stuff like that. I'm guessing this is just my take from it, I'm guessing this is supposed to be Travis's interpretation of the world, it's just a bit hazy. - It's exactly that, I think it is. It's kind of hazy view of, and the more it goes throughout the movie saying that he wants to clear the streets of the dirt and scum and villainy, I think I just went into Star Wars there. But I think that's what we're seeing, is he seeing it just hazy and horrid and constantly grim. - Yeah, this is a, this term was coined later on. I think this film epitomizes what a gritty film would be, right, because the imagery of New York here, we're so used to New York and American city's looking pretty in films, but New York in this film does not look pretty. - No, it's definitely the dark side of the movie, of the city, and it just looks, it doesn't look inviting. Every image that you see, all the cinemas are showing which seems to be porn, and the only film that we, we see other than porn, Britain and the movie theaters, is Texas Chainsaw message. So it kind of shows you the time and what's going on in the city at the time. - I think a lot of the images that you see are all at night as well though. You don't really, oh, I guess there's a little bit, there's a little bit in there, but most of it's night. - It's really about nighttime people. - The night scene, hmm. - So he learned about Cheris and he says, he's a full mum marine, which is an interesting note to say, and he had an honourable discharge, I don't be quite surprised about that. I thought someone like him would have had a dishonourable discharge, but I suppose that's only influenced by what he maybe becomes later on, but. - I think, and this is saying films that are given names pre, you know, what we know of today. PTSD wasn't the thing then, they weren't, we weren't seeing veterans treated for PTSD, they'd just been let out and learnt to live with life. And I think that's kind of what we're seeing here, is his transition from being in the army or in the marines and trying to cope with normal life, which is clearly a struggle for him. He'd always been a loner, you know, he doesn't mix with people, he doesn't, he doesn't really talk to people, he doesn't know how to communicate, and that we're seeing that transition from 1973, which is Euroso before, it's only been two years, and he's now back on the street trying to be a cabbie. - Again, in this film, we have narration, which is, we spoke about before, actually, with films like American Psycho, see that review guys, if you would like to see that one. I think I spoke about narration in that film as well, where from one I've done script writing courses before, a lot of people think of it as a bad thing to tell films. I always like narration in films, it really grips me. - Well, I think it depends on where you're coming from, you know, some films really do need narration. You know, the amount of people that talk about Blade Runner and so they much prefer the narrated version to the original version or the theatrical version, whatever you want to call it. I think this film benefits massively from his narration, and it's a diary to no one in particular. - That's what I kind of like. It's like just his view, it's not sending him to mum, and it's just his diary of life. - This film, especially without narration, wouldn't work as well, because we are literally going through his mind and seeing why he is the way he is, and he has to tell us that, because as good as an actor Robert De Niro is, the narration just helps emphasize what he is acting. - And if there wasn't narration, this film would be predominantly silent. - Yeah, there's a lot of nothing scenes, well, not nothing scenes, but non-dialogue scenes. So, Elle, any thoughts on the narration? - Not really on the narration, but when he was talking to the guy trying to get the job as a taxi driver, I didn't know that I really trusted what he was saying. - Travis? - Yeah, like when he said he had an honorable discharge from the Marines, and I'm like, did you really, or are you just saying that because you want a job? - That's a good point. - He just, he looks really disheveled and kind of almost like his homeless, and which obviously I understand is now because his PTSD and his was actually in the Marines, but at that point, at the start of the film, I just, I didn't quite believe what he was saying. - That's an interesting question, because my next question was gonna be, we have the narration, but we have this other term now that, I don't know if it was used back then, but we have the term of unreliable narrator. Is Travis an unreliable narrator? - I don't think so, I mean, we'd see him later on in the film, and he's clearly got a massive injury down his back, of which you would imagine would be something that had happened in Nam. So no, I think he was definitely a Marine, and he probably served his time very well. I don't think that's probably just leading up to what happens later on, and he's controlled later on. - Well, I'm asking it in the sense that he, those details might be true, but is everything we see in the film from Travis's point of view real? - No, because we're seeing it from his point of view. - Yeah. - And that's obviously massively different from what's going on in real life. We know he could be skipping through a field of butter cups, and he would still see it as wandering or wading through poo. - Yeah. - The scene here where he's in the cinema, and he's trying to flirt with this girl behind the desk, and she's just not interested at all. She, for instance, is called a manager, which she does eventually. So we're already seeing that, again, I'm gonna use coins from today, terms of today. Is this an in-sale story? Is this that kind of thing? - That's not actually an in-sale, because he wouldn't be interested in women. Is that right, in-sales? - It's not that he's not interested, and it's not that he's not a menace. (laughs) That's not, I just think he wants someone to talk to, but he wants to be someone's friend. He just doesn't have a kind of a filter as to what is, because he spends his entire life in this seedy town. He just thinks that everyone's like that. - See, and you say that he's not a menace, but still at this point I was trying to work out who he was, like before this, when he's parking his cab in the parking lot, and he's saying that he has to clean the cum off the back of the seats when he returns a cab, and sometimes there's blood as well. And at that time, I'm just thinking, what is he doing in the back? Like, is he murdering people in the back of his cab, and then fucking them? - You went there, yeah. - It's not his cum. - No, well, I realize that now, but at the time, at the time I was confused as to like, what this guy is doing, 'cause I didn't trust him, because he was all to show me. - I mean, when he first gets into the back, and there's cum in there, it's not his cum. (laughs) - He's saying cum a lot. - He's saying cum a lot. (laughs) - At least we're spending it correctly. (laughs) - So you went that way, immediately, it's not, it's the customers. - So you went inside, go. - Yes, yeah, I thought he was like a murderous taxi driver. That's why I thought the film was going. - Oh, dear. - Okay, so, no. (laughs) But also, Paul didn't listen to me. - Right, 'cause what's going on in your head, like, do not listen. (laughs) But also, yes, Paul didn't listen. Yeah, well, this was the thing about them, right? As far as I'm aware, this was, yeah, this is how it was in New York, and other cities, I'm guessing, it was, yeah, it was just a seedy dark time, I guess, in-- - But like, did people go in and watch the porn, and like, jerk off, I'm watching porn in like a group? - Absolutely. - Yeah, they did. (laughs) And it's, I mean, we were talking earlier, we won't go with intel, and we go, he's a damaged, and I think, more importantly, lonely person. - Loneliness is-- - Loneliness is very key in this film. - That's exactly what it is. - He's so insulated, and so, the line he says, "You know, you're only as healthy as you feel." I think that's very true, and for anyone who suffered with loneliness, PTSD, depression, anxiety, all these kinds of things are playing up in this film, and I, well, I'll just say this as non-cereokidory and non-scaryly as I can, but I did relate to Travis in this film quite a lot. He goes through some things, and I'm thinking, "Yeah, I can see why he's feeding that." I can see why he's doing that. - A lot of, anyone that hasn't thought, you know what, I'd just like to fucking kill you about one individual in their life, then if you haven't had that thought, then you're not human. - Yeah, absolutely, and his view on people as a population, you know, he's, if someone wrongs him, or even it doesn't even take someone's wrong him, he's just thinking, "Oh, you're just like all the rest." It's just a quick snap to attitude. - Exactly. - If you're not nice to him, or even if you're not even nice to him, if you're just in his way, and it's just-- - We do see that later on, that he has this kind of level where everyone is exactly the same. Everyone is exactly the same. What he considers normality, whatever they may be. But the minute that they deviate from that norm, they fall off of a precipice, and there's almost like no recovery for them. They just become immediately discovered the Earth. - Yeah, completely agree. And the fact that he is watching porn in this cinema again adds to his character, because we see later on, it just seems to be, that's how he only knows how to interact with people. It's either-- - And I don't think he's watching porn for the-- - No, I think he just thinks this is what I do, because when he goes on the date later with Betsy, I'll take it to this porn theater. - Yeah, because he doesn't see it as-- - He hasn't got a clue. - He hasn't got a clue. - No. - He doesn't think that it's a bad thing. Travis becomes infatuated with Betsy, a campaign volunteer for Senator and presidential candidate, Charles Palentine. Travis enters the campaign office where she works and asks her out for coffee, to which she agrees. Betsy agrees to go on another date with him. During their date, Travis takes Betsy to a porn theater, which repulses her into leaving. He attempts to reconcile with her, but to no avail. Enraged, he storms into the campaign office where she works and then proceeds to berate her, before being kicked out of the office. It's the first time we see really anybody filmed in slow motion. And the real interesting thing about that is is he's watching her. It's not him watching her go into the building. Sitting on the wall is Martin Scorsese, and it's Martin Scorsese that watches her go in and tracks her in to the building. And I thought, that's really good, 'cause what we're doing is we're seeing De Niro for a moment being the director. This is how she looks in to me. Everything is, everything is, they will say, rosies. And not to tell me exactly if she'd have had a white light behind her, you wouldn't have been able to make her more angelic than that moment. - Well, she does look amazing in this film. And again, I think it's hardly the point where, I think Travis is so infatuated with her, like I said, and he's seeing her in this perfect way. It's like, this is the person that's gonna save me. This is the person that's gonna like me. If I get with her, it's all gonna be okay. - Exactly, that's exactly it. She's the shining light. - Yeah, and it's salvation. - Sadly, and actually a lot of people take where they pin their hopes on someone to fix them, it's just not a thing to do. - And if they're not on the same wavelength, which would be difficult in Travis's case, because he's clearly, I won't say he was disturbed, but he's clearly on a different idea about what perfect things should be. - Were you never ever gonna come up to that standard? - Now, Albert Brooks in this film, that was a surprise. I didn't even recognize him. I know I read him in the plot and I saw him in the cast, but I did not even recognize him in this film. I only know Albert Brooks from Drive, which we also reviewed. And I think I remember saying in that film to John, I was like, is Albert Brooks known for much than he is? I only know him as finding him as dad. - Yeah, turns up again. But again, he's one of those actors that turns up all over the place. - And I like him in this. He's quite good. He's funny, and I do like whether he's luring in the background when Travis is chatting up Betsy. You can just see his head just popping around. Because he clearly likes Betsy and she doesn't really seem to like him. - Yeah, yeah, it's great, it's got some afro going on, isn't it? - Sounds throw, isn't it? - The things that Travis says to Betsy as well. - Yeah, that was surprising. I have to say, the way he suits himself up, he wears a nice suit to go talk to her finally after staring at her so many times. And she actually spots him, doesn't she? And originally she's, oh, this taxi driver keeps staring at us. But he does pluck up the courage to go in there with a nice suit. And I don't remember all the lines he says to her, but what he does say to us thinking, this is, this works on her? Is this gonna work? - Well, because he has no filter, does he? Yes, he hasn't got a clue. And so he goes up and, you know, first, you know, why do you wanna join the campaign? Well, because you're the most beautiful girl that you've seen in my life. - He doesn't give a shit, he doesn't give a shit, though. - It doesn't, it doesn't know. - No, he doesn't know when they go out for life. - And why? - He doesn't know. - No. - And then he goes on to tell her that she looks lonely and depressed. - Which, no, to be honest, I think that's a key detail. - You're beautiful, but you look lonely and depressed. I wanna date with me. Okay, what? - Yeah, but I think that's a key detail here because he's seeing a kindred spirit to him. So he's thinking, oh, you know what it feels like? So if I get with you, we can get better together. - Yeah, you can't do all of that nasty sounds. - We'll be able to judge everyone else and we know what the world is like. So you are my kindred spirit, but again-- - He has no idea who she is or what she's been through. - But he thinks-- - He's assuming that-- - He believes he knows how things he can see this kindred spirit. And this is, I'm assuming, obviously, not talking from experience, but I'm assuming that this is the kind of thing that people who have stalkers. This is what they go through. - Yeah, absolutely, they were made for me. We should be together. You'll only be wonderful when I'm in your life or and vice versa. So it's stalker spirit, but I don't know if he's necessarily stalking her. Oh, my ease, I suppose. But he just wants to reach out and make her life better. - But it's the whole, like she's so completely calm about it and agrees to go on the date as well. Like, I don't know that I would be so okay with that. - I'm not sure at that point he's any threat. - She said that the taxi driver has been staring at her for hours. - But does she? - Is that not creepy enough? - Maybe. I don't know, if someone was, you know, if someone was looking at me across the crowded room constantly and then they come and speak to you, then you'd be in some way flattered by the fact that you'd stood out in the crowd. - Well, I was gonna bring this up later on, but since they already hinted at it with the, you know, is this really working, you know, this guy staring at her and she just goes on with it? - This is what I'm gonna ask again, the unreliable narrator thing. Are we sure this is all happening? How Travis, well, how we seeing it anyway? - This is, you know, and I knew it would come up. This is almost exactly the same as the Joker. - Mm-hmm. - Are we seeing how it is or how he believes it is? - Now, I'm obviously taking it now because I couldn't really remember this film. When I watched Joker, I remember parts of Taxi Driver, so when everyone was reviewing Joker, I said, "Oh, I just like Taxi Driver." I was like, "Okay, fine." I can kind of remember bits of Taxi Driver, so sure. Especially some energy, like with the fingers that are head at the end and stuff like that. But now watching Joker, I don't know, maybe it's helped me appreciate this film more? I don't know, but I'm, especially with the whole, are we sure this is happening? Because obviously in Joker, that we have sequences like that. - This isn't a film, and I don't wanna insult people of a younger age, but I don't think this is a film for someone who has no real grasp of life. You know, you have to have lived a bit and you have to have suffered a little bit to understand what's going on. As far as Travis' concern, mentally. Because just picking this up, you're 18 years old and someone says, "Oh, we'll watch Taxi Driver." I don't think an 18 year old would necessarily get it because they have, unless they've been abused and beaten up or bullied or all of those horrid things. I don't think that a younger adult would really get this film at all. - Well, neither did 32 year old Elle understand what this film was about when she was first watched it. - And I'm not suggesting that you're not complimenters enough to get it. I just think that you know about love, you know about love, you know about life, and you know about people suffering. And you know about the depression that people go through when they can't have what they really want. In your line of work, you'd know that probably better than most of us. - Mm-hmm, very true. - So that would force you into a make decisions that you probably may regret later. - Yeah, which I think probably is a reason why I didn't really get, I watched this film. And like I said, a long time ago when I was very young and just didn't get it. I just thought, this is boring. You know, I don't really get what's going on here. Well, I'm not watching this, but watching it later on and reviewing it as a film, you do get what is happening. Well, I got what was happening, but again, you know, this was Elle's first time. Maybe it is a multiple watch kind of film. Some films you just don't click with you on the first time. - I absolutely agree. - But don't you want a film to get you on the first go to make you want to watch it again? If you don't enjoy it on your first watch, what is going to make you want to see a certain time? - I don't know. I think some films do merit a second watch. Some film, I've watched many films in the past where the first time I watch it, I think, that's a lot of crap. And then I've watched things again. - Definitely. Wow, I've really missed something. Like, "Drive" was a perfect example. I hated "Drive" and then I watched it again in Hollywood. - Sure. - I didn't get it. I just didn't get it at all. - Until I watched it again and I was a little, I know a little more fluid about my attitude towards quarantine movies. And I really enjoyed it. I thought it was a really good film. You know, some films just take a couple of views. - So we talked about the music, the jazz classical music, whatever it is. Is this Travis's theme? 'Cause it happens a lot in the film. Or is it just a theme that keeps playing in the film? - No, I think it's... Yeah, it's Travis's theme. - Okay, because, again, I was going to talk a little bit later on, but I'm going to mention it now, it really gets played on a record between... - Yeah, I noticed that. - Jodie Foster. - Yeah, I didn't notice that. - That's bizarre. I didn't get that. - No. Now, in fact, when he put the needle to the record, I was waiting for, "Oh, what's this music?" And then that played. - So that really confused me. - Yeah. - But we'll talk about later on, but yeah, that may have been due to copyright issues, I suppose. - Sure, okay. - I thought the jazz music was just because it was in the '70s, and they played a lot of jazz music. - I'm getting a little crazy. (laughing) - Fair enough. - No, his score says he has a filmmaker, I don't think so. - Thank you. - I think his films are very intentional. - And maybe it's just, again, the music is, it sounds one thing, but it kind of has this underlying dark side to it. - Or is it a case of the same music over and over again, because that's how Travis sees his life. It's monotonous, it's the same thing over and over again. - And that kind of unreliable information, has that happened? Or is that him imagining Iris and sport together? - We've reviewed him before, but Peter Boyle shows up as Wizard. - Again, yeah, I put him in my notes. Here he comes, the last time we saw him, he was Frankenstein's monster. - Yeah, dancing it up on stage. - And there he's the Wizard camp driver. - What name that is, Wizard? Or he calls him Wizard or Wiz. But yeah, what did we think of Peter Boyle in this room? 'Cause that was strange to see him, especially with that here. - And a weird conversation as well, because he talks to him and he has a conversation again later. But it's like, I suppose it's a typical kind of cab driver. They listen to people spouting stuff all day. And I'm assuming that you have to give stuff back that doesn't really mean a great deal. You don't want to put yourself in a position that you're going to cause yourself any trouble. So it kind of returns, everything he says to him is a bit non-committal, you know? - Joe, I'm so glad you said that, because in the scene, I couldn't even really remember what he was saying to Travis, because I was just like, what the fuck are you talking about? - No, it's non-committal nonsense, isn't it? - And I think again, is this the point here? Is this Travis, you know, this is the people he has to interact with? - Yeah. - These fucking nonsense conversations. - Yeah, absolutely. - Which is like, really, this is my life. These are my friends. They're just talking this absolute bollocks. And there's nothing engaging going on here. Like, no wonder he's fucking depressed. I would be. - Yeah. - I have nothing further than that. (laughing) - I thought he played it very well. He's kind of our sake. You know, I'm pissed off with life attitude, Pete's boy, all this is. But I don't have any answers. - No, he's just saying it's nonsense. And then he's got his other mate saying, oh, Travis, do you carry a gun? And do you want one? Fucking hell, these are your friends? - And from the off, they call him killer. - Yeah. - So maybe, I mean, maybe that kind of diverts back to him being in the Marines. We don't know what he did in the Marines. Maybe that's why, you know, maybe they didn't go. - Do you mean that's an intentional hint here that we're supposed to think Travis is going to become a killer? Is this two on the nose? - It could be. - Yeah. - Well, it could be because, you know, we all know how the film got well. You didn't at this point, I'm assuming. But yeah, it could be. - We have jumps around a little bit there, but. - It's so wrong. - It's fine. I'm hoping you're following us, guys. - The lunch date. - Is that what you just put, the lunch date? - Well, it's nice when he says, you know, I had a piece of pie and coffee, and then she had so-and-so and so-and-so, but she could have had anything she wanted. And he really does. I actually wrote it down. Believe it or not, baby, why? Made a nugget. His love for Betsy is absolutely genuine. And I think that's true. - Yeah. - He really does love her, and he wants it not reciprocated, but I think he really does believe that he loves her. - Do you think there's any part of Betsy that actually likes him? - No. - Nothing. - No, at all. - No, I don't. - Even with lines, I've never known anyone like you before. - I think she's curious about him, but I don't think she likes him. - Interesting. - I actually wrote his attempt at a date. He's truly heartbreaking because he really has no clue about interaction of any kind. And I think he really does want to spend time with this person, even make her what he might think is happy, but he just doesn't have a clue. - Yeah, I don't know. I think she's more like sort of curious and maybe feels sorry for him. But is, and so is like agreeing to these things to, not leave him on, but to, I guess, make him feel happy. And then she feels happy because she's made someone else feel happy. I don't know, but. - Isn't that his intention? - Yeah, I guess. - He wants to make her happy, to make himself feel happy. - Yeah. - So it's the same, same color, but different sides. - What do we think about the scene where a palentine gets in the back of Travis's taxi? - It's clever scene, really, because it's all about him in reflection. All of it, or we're seeing first palentine talking and we don't see who it is, then he recognises who it is, and then interacts with them. Again, he hasn't got a clue. He doesn't know anything about his policies. - No. - He just wants to be recognised, I suppose. - Oh, the main thing I got from this scene, again, I've seen this, and I've seen it twice now, guys, but this is the first time I've watched the film and actually thought, and maybe it's a spoiler for my thoughts at the end, but this is one of those films where I've watched now, and I kind of want to watch it a few more times now. I think this is one of those films that I think, and I think it's a good sign that when you watch a film, I kind of need to watch that again, and maybe again and again to really get it. - To see what's going on, see what the interaction is between those two, for sure, because the men are the side of palentine. - They want no part of it. - Yeah. - They want no part of this. - No, they don't know. - They really don't even want him to engage. At one point, they said, "We could've just got a limousine." And he says, "I want to get in a cab. "This is the things I should be doing." He's clearly, as far as we can tell, a man of his word as a candidate. And when Travis does speak to him, he says, "You know, I've got more information "from cab drivers over the years "than I've got from any limo, "or probably from any tea party he's been to." And I think that's true. And that's what senators would say. They really want to engage with the people. I don't know if they want to go quite that low. What the fuck he's doing running around at New York in the middle of the night? I have no idea. - No idea. - You know, at one point, I actually thought, "Are we going to see him get in the back of the car "with a hooker? "You know, is that where we're going with this film?" But obviously not. - I thought it was interesting when he asked Travis, you know, what do you think of New York Travis? What would you change? What's, you know, what needs fixing? And he says, you know, "I line again about the filth "and the scum needs cleaning off the streets." And I thought it was interesting when Palestine says words to him to effect of, "They need to make radical changes "and people need to rise up on all these kind of phrases." So, is it Palestine that gives Travis the incarnation later on to do exactly what Palestine is saying? - I think there's a number of moments in this film that a catalyst to make him become the man that he becomes. - We will talk about it later, but the motivation from Travis to attempt to kill Palestine later on, spoiler alert. We are doing spoilers, guys, just, you know, we definitely talk about that because I'm still not entirely sure the motives here. A very, very young Jodie Foster, everyone, and I had to, of course, tell Elle. Elle, do you know what that is? (laughs) - And I was like, yeah, I know the name, but I couldn't pick her in a crowd. - And is this her first film? No, I actually said this to Elle. It's like, this may be her first film, but wasn't she in Parent Trap before this? I don't know. - She was in Bugsy Malone before this, which I think was '75. - Sure. - And then probably this, then Parent Trap and Candle Show and whatever went on after that and clearly, you know, lover or hater, she is one of the finest American actresses ever. - Love or a hater? Is there a hate for Jodie Foster? - Well, not for me, no, no, no, absolutely not, no. But I'm sure that she has her, you know, her naysayers, not for me. I think she's in her-- - She can't please everyone, can you? So there's gonna be people out there. - I think she's in it. I really do think she's an amazing actress and I think she's a real benefit to American cinema. - So this is where, after arranging the date on the phone with Betsy, they go to the theatre and at the warnings there, Travis, she says, "Is this a dirty movie you're taking me to?" "No, no, no, loads of couples going to see us." And of course, Betsy storms out and this is, it's just kind of really hard to watch from Travis' point of view, of course, because he just, again, we've said it, but he hasn't got a clue, he just doesn't know how to treat this woman, he doesn't know how to impress her, he doesn't know how to impress her, he just doesn't know how to treat her and show her how much he likes her because he thinks this is the norm to him. - Yeah, it's just, it is really hard to watch. - As I said, I've got it down, his attempt to date is truly heartbreaking, I think it really is, he really just wants to have a good time, he doesn't, he's not thinking about sex with this, at no point. - Which is ironic, really, considering. - Exactly, I don't think that's part of his game at all, I think he just wants to be truly nice to this woman. - Which is probably Betsy's fault, oh, you're taking me to a dirty movie, that's all you want from me. - Well, she says to him, why don't you just say let's fuck? - Yeah, basically. - And she gives him his record back and he says, "Now I want you to take it," he says, "Well, now I have two couples, thanks." And she's really, at that point, she just becomes utterly dismissive of him. And I think this, and a scene that's coming on again, we see kind of three things, maybe four things that happen that really drive him to distraction as catalysts moving him on. - Now, do we not like Betsy for this, or is this completely understandable? - No, it's totally understandable. - It's understandable. - Absolutely. - But it's totally understandable. - I think it's important to note because people in real life could go through these kind of situations and they think, oh, you're all the same. - No, it's a ridiculous thing to do. But it's not his fault that he did it, it's in a way. - It's society's fault, but it is, it's society's fault because he has no, this is all he ever sees, this is all he ever interacts with. - Now, I want to talk about the scene where he's phoning Betsy, and he's asking if she's feeling better, or maybe had a cold, it was a cold, wasn't it? Oh, that's why, did you get the flowers? No, I'll kind of call you again. Okay, okay, so long. But this scene here is so good because the way the camera moves away is brilliant. It's just, and I saw this again, maybe get show in my hand, but I've seen, I saw it in the view of Scorsese himself and he pointed out this scene specifically where he said, "I wanted the camera to move away in that scene because I just thought it was too heartbreaking to watch Travis be broken up with here." And it just, what a genius thing to think because that's not a thing you see in films. - No. - That kind of shot, it's not a pan, it's literally the camera, it's like you're watching him, we're watching him and we have to just kind of, okay, I don't really want to watch this. - Let's just leave him alone. - Yeah, absolutely. - Leave him alone, and just watch outside that nothing has changed, the world's going on outside. It's a wrench in that moment. - And he's back in his apartment and we hear that line again, you're only as healthy as you feel. - See it written down at one point. - So this is where he burst in the office, start setting the summary. See, so what do we think about this scene? - It's obviously a massive overreaction from Travis, he's going down to the, I don't know how to say it, the instant reaction should we say from him, a reactionary-- - Yeah, anger. - At reactionary anger, you know, you all just like the rest of him. I think either says you're going to die in hell or not the rest of the-- - Do you even die in hell, yeah. - Yeah, the rest of the hell Travis. - This is what I was saying earlier, so everyone's on a plane, and then when you deviate from that plane, you just fall off, you're off. You're off of his radar now. - I think even the narration, he says, "Oh, she's just like the others." - Yeah. - Again, just that instant reaction, because something hasn't gone his way, or someone hasn't responded to his quote acts of kindness. It's, oh, you're all the same, yeah. And again, I'm sorry to admit it, but I have had these faults before, you know, I've been in dark times where I've thought, "Oh, fucking people are just horrible." - Yeah. - And it is a thing. - Yeah. - But lots of people are horrible. There are so many horrible people out there. - I mean, that's the problem. - Yeah, that's the whole problem, isn't it? You need at least something to build up to. You can't constantly, and this is, I'm assuming this is his idea of life, you can't constantly live in a world of shit, and slime, and scum, and villainy, and all of those horrible things, there has to be something over and above that, and I think his attempt was to take her away from that, take her away from the grim side of New York, but she clearly didn't want to have, so he figures, "Well, fuck yeah." - Thank you. How many times do we think Travis has gone through this? - I don't know that he's gone through it that many times. If he's been in the war, and he's been discharged from the war, then I don't know how long he's been discharged. - Well, '73 came out. - Okay. - He says at the beginning I was discharged in '73, honorary discharge in '73. Would this film would have been '76? Was it released? So, made in '74, '75, says, "I've only been out a year, maybe 18 months." - Okay, yeah, it's just the fall, I just fall, you know, is this a build-up of so many rejections for him, or is he already that damaged? - No, I think he's already that damaged, and this is his attempt to get back into society. - There is a line here, which I thought was quite darkly funny, where he says, "It's all women, for sure, they're like a union." I know it's a bad thing to say, but a great line, if that makes any sense. (laughing) This is a scene I absolutely wanna talk about. So, we now have Martin Scorsese at the back of his taxi, and he asked Travis to drive up to an apartment, and he asked him to look up, and he said, "Oh, you see that woman in the window there? "That's, by the way, that's not my apartment, "but that is my wife, and I'm going to kill her." And you must think I'm a pretty sick person, huh? You must think, and I'm gonna blow her face off with a magnum, and all this kind of thing. - He's very descriptive about it, what he wants to do. - Well, you've never seen a woman with a face blown off? Now that you should see, that you should see. And then he talks about other parts of her being blown up. Now that you should really see. It's like, what, have you seen it? - Yeah, how many other people have you killed? (laughing) - So, my main questions are both of you two here, and I've got it in capitals in my notes. Is this real? - What you think, do you think this is his imagination? - Imagination? - It is very random. - It is random, and as I said, we do see Marty on the wall, watching her go in. Now I'm wondering if he turns up at other points. - Possibly. - And it, so is Marty his alter ego? I suppose. - Possibly. - I suppose he's conscious. - Yeah, he's devil and shoulder baby. - Yeah, yeah. - He's conscious saying, you know, this is what life's all about. This is, so it's quite possible. Again, it says in my notes, this is the next catalyst. This is the next turning point. - Well, what do you think? Have you ever thought that before? - I haven't, but it's a really interesting point. - Okay. - That it actually could be him. - Sure. - Talking to, you know, yeah, very much so. - 'Cause I think you see earlier when Travis is, like, kind of losing in a Betsy, and he's kind of lost his mind a little bit in his, his, yeah, starting to lose it more and more. And then you see this passenger, who's also fucking losing their minds, talking about killing his wife because she's cheating on him with a black man. And I don't know, it's just, they're very like similar. And then maybe Travis takes that conversation as though, oh, so what I'm thinking is okay. Like I am gonna go out and get a Magnum 44. - Which he immediately does. - Yeah. - And he immediately goes out and buys a Magnum. Now, the other interesting thing is, you know, we clearly live in different times now. It's like the worst thing that could happen was that his wife wasn't only having extra marital relationships, but she was having extra marital relationships with a black man. I mean, it's a different time now, clearly. But it seemed like this is the worst thing that could possibly happen at this point. And I know that you make a very good point that this could be, you know, we don't see her. Is that Betsy in his head? You know, and is the worst thing that he could think about was her having a relationship with a black fella? So you could be absolutely right. - Hmm, that is, that is, well, just mentioned, that is something I've not seen on videos about the film or something, but that's just come to my mind. That was just, again, this is probably influence from Joker because that film is very much, a lot of it is in, like, Joker's head or Arthur, whatever we're gonna say. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, I think that-- - Yeah, it's a very interesting point. I had never considered it like that. And that sort of changed the entire aspect of how you see the film as well. - Mm-hmm. - It also goes back to the smoke and mirrors at the beginning. You know, we're not seeing things how they really are. - Experiencing an existential crisis and seeing various acts of prostitution throughout the city, Travis confides on a fellow taxi driver named Wizard about his violent faults. However, Wizard dismisses them and assures him that he will be fine. To find an outlet for his rage, Travis follows an intense physical training regimen. He gets in contact with black market gun dealer, Easy Andy, and buys four handguns. At home, Travis practices drawing his weapons, even creating a quick draw rig hidden in his sleeve. He begins attending Padantime's rallies to scope out his security. One night, Travis shoots and kills a black man, attempting to rob a convenience store run by a friend of his. Apologies if it's boredom, but again, I've been in this situation with Travis, where I've said to people, "Do you know what mate? "I'm really struggling at the moment." And I don't feel well. I'm having really bad faults. And the best people can say is, "You'll be fine." - You'll be fine! You know, Eric, you know it. I've had it said to me so many times, it's all going to become like an adage for me. You'll be fine! And it's a joke. It's an absolute fucking joke. Again, the Peach Ball says nothing. He says nothing to him. He talks a load of old toffee, but says nothing to him. You know, it might as well have said, "Man up." Oh, I love that. - Yeah, get over there. You'll be fine. - You'll be fine. Man up. Effectively is that, is it? - Yeah. - Today it would be that. Oh, come on, man up, you'll be fine. Come on. It'll be good, come on. - I'm surprised he didn't shoot you in the face there. - It can't be that bad. - Oh, that's not a bad choice. Maybe, again, watching it older for a podcast and being older and being more life experienced now. This is a film I can't relate to. Yeah, I've been in these situations and you just can't believe people say things like this. It's just, maybe you're right, or maybe it's people who haven't lived. Not, I don't want to say that patronizing me, but maybe it's-- - It's very difficult. - I didn't mean it to be a patronizing guy. - Yeah, exactly what you mean. But maybe it's, if you're fortunate enough to go through life and you haven't had to deal with these kind of themes in this film, honestly, I'm so happy for you because no one should ever have to feel that's fucking false or feelings 'cause it's fucking evil. But I think it is when you've been through that yourself. You can see this in this film when you think, "Fuckin' hell, yeah, I've been there "and I've had people tell me this shit." And you think, "Really, that's what you've got "to fucking say to me? "No, no proper help. "I'm asking you for help now. "I'm reaching out and you're saying it's gonna be fine." - Yeah. - That's it. - Yeah. - That's what you've got for me. - You'll be fine. - Well, what your manager will say is, "It's not really my problem." - Basically. - Say that to me. - That might be feeling a whole lot better. It's not my problem. You know, speak to someone and deal with it somewhere else 'cause it's not my problem and I fucking definitely had that. - Yeah. - You know? - And there's a really tending line here from Travis where he says, "I really wanna," and there's a pause, and he says, "I've got some bad ideas in my head." So I was even thinking there, he's gonna kill himself or he's gonna kill some people here. And this is, I think, the real start of the downfall. - Yeah. - The line here from Wiz where he says, "Oh, he just needs to go out and get laid, get drunk, "do anything." - Just fuck off, thanks. - Eat a sandwich. - Yeah. Thanks very much. - Thanks for that. - I do. The other line, "Don't worry so much. "Relax, Kyra, you're gonna be all right." Fuck it, oh, honestly. Yeah, I'll try not to harp up on this, but yeah, you can tell it's a touchy feeling for me in this film. - Well, I think it's really telling, you know, I think it's really telling that movies can have such an impact on people. - Yeah. - And it may only be for a few seconds or it may just be a small piece of imagery, but if it relates to you in some way, I don't mean you, if it relates to one in some way, then drop down as far as the film's concerned for me. You know, you hit the nail on the head. You can only do that so many times in any movie, but if you can grab people's attention and really take them somewhere where, or make them relate to you in some way, then, "Well, fuck me, you've done a good job there." - We've said before, movies are, this is why I love films, because then literally everything you'd want in life, you know, any experience you'd want in life, if you wanna feel happy, if you wanna feel sad, if you wanna feel depressed, you wanna feel overwhelmed, you wanna feel anything like that, millions of films out there we can just go to, and you can relate to them in any one you can. - Yeah, not art, I would just expand that to art. I think art, as the ability to make you laugh, make you cry, make you angry, make you morose, make you, you know, any emotion that you feel that you wanna conjure up at any given time, that's what art is about. - And I know it's an obvious thing to say, but Martin Scorsese is an artist. - Oh fuck, without a doubt. - I know, again, I know it's an obvious thing to say, but I'm not gonna say it in any way. - Hollywood didn't think so. - Well, yeah, that's less about them the better, but Martin Scorsese, how it took him so long to get a best director Oscar, and I think it also had a departed, and it's an okay film, from what I remember, the part I didn't see it for a while, but it's one of those in it where they just give you an Oscar, because you've got such an amazing body of work, so we've got to give you one at some point, before you die, basically. - Was that his first? - I think so. - I thought it might have been Hugo, which was, I mean, even that. - I think I got nominated. - And you just think, really, of everything that's come before that, you know, look at his body of work, look what he has done, and changed, single-handedly changed the face of cinema. - This is where the music plays again, for Travis as he drives the taxi, and again, I just thought, is this his theme, because I'm not, I don't get repetition of this music constantly being played. - Well, it does have a downturn, doesn't it, because it goes from that bit. (sings) And then we have this kind of low rumble theme, where things are starting to, he's changing now, and he goes through this transition period of stopping being the Travis we know and love, (laughs) to this feral animal, I suppose. - Yeah. So we get more narration, and he says, "Dude, my life has taken another turn, "and one for the worst, "because he's about to go buy some guns. "But I just had a flash in my mind, Elle. "Did you appreciate this? "Because I know how you like timelines "and that kind of thing. "Did you appreciate that?" - I did, yeah. - She likes a running clock. - I like, yeah, I like to know how much time has passed. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And throughout the film that his hair doesn't always remind, you know, if they could have filmed this film over, you know, six months, his hair at one point is quite short, and then it gets a bit longer. So there's clearly time passing, and we know that it's June, and the primaries are not until November, so, you know, that gives us six months to play with as well. - I do love the shot when he, no part intended, but I do love the shot when he gets the gun, and he points it outside the window, and it's just tracking, tracking, tracking, that stops on people. - No one is innocent in that shot. No one. You know, they're all victims of their own stupidity, I think. I love the bloke that he sells in the guns. - Why? - Just because, you know, he says, you know, this is a real beauty, and he talks to him, like, he's buying, you know, a baby food, or something. - It does seem to enjoy his work. - It really does. - And then when he decides. - This one's a bit too long, so you can't really conceal that one here. Have a snub nose instead. - Yeah, and then when he's done, he says, you want some smack? (laughing) I'll get you a candle, like, it's too grand, you can have a candle. - What else you want? - Just like anything, anything you want. - Well, I think it's because he buys the four guns, and he wasn't expecting him to buy four. - Exactly, yeah, I think that. - So, he says, "Hang on me, you will spend money. "What else can I sell?" - And he says, you know, at one point, he says, "I can sell this to a black fella or a pin, "but I think he says, obviously, "the language is not repeatable." But he says, "I can sell this for $500." And he sells it for $50, so he's clearly, you know, he's very happy about the money he's making here. - Is this commentary here about how easily it is for people to get guns and stuff like that? If they want them, how these damaged people can so clearly-- - Yeah. - I mean, we see it in real life, all the time, how many times do we see this? Active shooter situation and-- - Absolutely, yeah. - They're always people with mental health problems, so on and so on, so. - You can buy guns from department stores in America. - Well-- - You absolutely can, but they have to be registered. - Apparently, yeah, okay. - Is it a license, and you have to have, like, background checks? - I don't think it's always that hard, though, to be honest. - I don't know. - I think as far as he's concerned, being as he's got an ordinary discharge, it wouldn't be hard for him to buy a gun anyway. You know, everything's in his favor, but I don't think he wants to be on the books as far as this is concerned. - True. - Especially if he's considering shooting a presidential candidate. Just pop up to mates. He's in by himself a shotgun. - You missed a bit where he almost runs over-- - Jody Foster. - Jody Foster in her friend. And then he stalks them, follows them, stares them while they're walking down the street. Again, why are they not running? - Why would they run? - And it's New York. They have people-- - No, no, no, no, no, no. They almost, you get almost hit by a car and run over, and then the person driving that car, slowly follows you. Would you not be suspicious of, like, why-- - You don't remember what she does for a living. She probably thinks he's interested. - Yeah, true, I suppose. - Yeah, that's what you say. They didn't call us all the time. - Good point. - Let's focus on that scene, because I initially thought, oh, there's not too much there to dissect, but are we thinking there that Travis C's innocence? Enjoyed your foster here? - Absolutely. - Iris, if we're gonna call her that as well. He spots another-- - Easy. - She sees a good one. - Easy. - What's that? - Oh, yeah, she calls herself easy, doesn't she? - Call anyone, call me easy. - Yeah, I do think he sees innocence, and again, I think he recognizes that I can lift this person out of this hole. - And is this, again, irony, again, from Scorsese here, where he's suggesting that a, I'm not suggesting anything here, but a prostitute is innocent, but the general populace is not society. - I think that's absolutely true. - Society wouldn't see it that way, would they? - No, well, yeah, but, you know, it's a society that he's against here. So, of course, prostitutes are innocent. You know my feelings on this. - As long as they pay taxes, right? - Yeah, you know, let them have a life of their own. You know how I feel about the life of prostitution and what they go through, if they really want to have a life doing that, then make them safe. - If you want to hear more thoughts on Jordan Van's fault of prostitution, please see our American Psycho review. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, just, I'll start my own podcast of prostitution the way forward. - Yes. (laughing) - Rackets, as long as they pay taxes. - Yeah, as long as they pay taxes. - Why not? Why not, they'll be protected. - So, what do you think of Travis's device? I'm just gonna call it that, this pop-out rig. (laughing) - Yeah, used to be a pop, I'm sorry. - A muddy hill. - Wow. - Well, yeah, it's great. - I want one now. (laughing) - You feeling okay, Jordan? - I'm fine. - Okay, I'm good, okay, fine. - No, I'm absolutely fine. No, I think it's, you know, why not? - You could use it for anything, it wouldn't have to be a gun. If you wanted something up your sleeve, so you could just flick it out and get to it really easily. - Also a telephone. - Fucking. - Chocolate bar? - A playing card? (laughing) - Chocolate bar. - Chocolate bar. - You need a snack? Here you go. - Oh my God, you can put it in a stickers advert. You're not really when you're hungry. (laughing) - Okay, there we go. - You know what? That would be absolutely good. (laughing) That would be brilliant for us, because that, can you imagine? - I wonder if people would think, oh, that's on Tasty Driver, or this is just a bit weird. - No, I think they'd pick up on it straight off. - Sure, okay. (laughing) - You're talking to me? - You're talking to me? - You're such a well-known film. - You're talking to me? - Yeah. - And they flip out of Snickers. (laughing) And the reflection goes, you're just not you when you're hungry. (laughing) - Angry. - Yeah. - I do love the scene where he scopes out the parade, and he immediately spots the Secret Service guy. I mean, he's not that discreet, to be honest. I don't really know how Secret Service is supposed to act, but maybe he don't look like you are definitely Secret Service. - Yeah. - Being the tallest person around for about a mile. - With sunglasses on, not moving, the arms crossed about as well would be just, yeah. - It might as well have had Secret Service that he would on his back. (laughing) - But I do like how, you know, Travis is just trying to get a little bit of information at him. Oh, you're Secret Service, right? You know, you carry a gun, right? What kind of gun, you know? And at first I thought, this is the shittest Secret Service agent ever, because he engages with him, and he's like, oh, you know, if you want to learn more, give me your address, and then I'll see what he's doing. Okay, fine. The little detail here, when Travis walks away, he turns the photographer straight away, and he points. Now, is he pointing to get a picture of Travis, or is it because the center immediately pulls up in the next shot? - The thing is to get a picture of Travis, Travis. - I think it's Travis, yeah. - I do think so, I'll just fall. - So they can ID him? - Again, I'm reliable narrator. I'm just saying we don't know. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - No, that's fine. - This is firmly in my head now, that if all this happened in how we are seeing it. - Probably not, but I think it was for him to take a picture of Travis. - Yeah. I just think it's there if you want to see both. - I mean, if it was any other sort of Secret Service in communication with his team members, he might have got him to take a picture a little earlier. You know? - Also, yes, yeah, that's, again, I'm just saying this could be all in his head. I'm not saying either way, but I do like it when films go for this ambiguous kind of thing. If it's done well, we've talked about that before as well. I don't really know what else to say about it, that he hasn't been said, but you talking to me? - Before that point, sorry, just going back to when he's talking to Secret Service. - You can't let me drop that line, and then just long it off. (laughs) - That is the-- - What grace? - Well, I'll tell you what, why don't we just go back and you can edit this out? - Fine, go on. - When he's talking to the Secret Agent guy, and he's wearing that shirt, has he got all of his guns on him at this point? - I don't think so. - I wouldn't imagine so. - Okay. - I think this is purely a recon mission, so before-- - To see whether they become suspicious of him. - You could get close enough and know what kind of security he's dealing with and so on and so on, I think it's more information getting at this point. - And he's clearly planning on something else, because he's still, at this point, he's still Travis, the Travis that looks like Travis. - Yeah. - So I'll say it again. - Well, no, I have one more-- - I won't say it again, okay. (laughs) Why does he put crosses in the top of the bullet? Do we know why? Do we know about that? - Because they fragment. - What? - If you shoot a bullet-- - Yeah. - A whole piece of lead at the end, it will go in. - Yeah, just straight through. - But if you cross it, when it hits something, it will fragment. - Oh, okay. - It's a bit more damage. - It's kind of a bit more like a shotgun kind of. - Yeah, all right. - Yeah, got it. - Okay. - Okay, that makes sense now. - Oh, hence why the hand blows up later. - Yes. - Ah, that's why. - Okay. - I didn't think it was his hand blow up. (laughs) - Sure. - Sure, okay. So now can I say it? - Go on. - You talking to me? - That, or, with more gusto, I think. (laughs) - You talking to me? - I don't wanna see anybody else here. - You talking to me? - It's incredible. - Yeah. It's such an iconic scene. I don't know how we're supposed to talk about this that hasn't been said, but it's the Nero being the Nero. And I'm not saying that in any kind of patronism that is the Nero at his acting best, just sending a scene which could have been comedic and like what the fights going on here, but it's him, I don't know, is it him giving himself up for what he's about to go through and try to be as intimidating as possible. - Well, just the, and again, it's just that repetitive scene where it's cut and it's chopped up when you see him turning, turning slightly. Can't go, I mean, turning again, it's like, he's organizing himself. Even when you see him a little earlier on in the movie, you need to, he's got his hand over the flames and it's like he's now so determined to be on point over and over and over again. This is how he sees it's gonna work for him. - And the assassination of the presidential candidate. - I think we kinda know what this is probably leading to now because we hear, and I think see him writing down words like he's a man who would not take it anymore. He's a man who rose up. So we're thinking he's even gonna kill this Valentine now or he will die as well, one or the other. - I think both were the plan. He's got nowhere else to go. - Yeah, he probably, I think he doesn't do it. If I kill this guy, they'll kill me or I'll shoot myself. - Yeah, and again, we revert back to that later on with him having no way out. - So the next scene where he shoots the black guy robbing the store, what do we think of this scene? What are we supposed to take anything else from this up in the fact that we now know he's prepared to kill? Am I missing something with this scene? - No, I don't think so. I just think that he's now, he's in full, I was gonna say in full vigilante mode, but I don't think at any point he was out to become a vigilante, I just think he's sort of forced into the fact that someone's doing a bad thing and I'm gonna stop it. Because as soon as it's done, he says sorry about that. Now he apologizes to the shopkeeper, I'm sorry about that. I just, you know, I... - But it doesn't really hesitate either. I think he just does it without even thinking. - Oh, exactly. - He just pulls the gun, shoots his gun. - But he's done with that, he's seen it and he's experienced it constantly, whereas now if they can do it without thinking, then he does it now without thinking. He's back to being a soldier. - I do wonder what the guy did with the body after he told Travis to leave. - I don't know, there was my body left with him. - Yeah, I mean, you don't see it, but I'll guess you hear him beating it up with something. - With a crowbar or something. - Yeah, yeah, and he takes his gun, so I'm assuming he'll just say, I did sound him and shot him with his own gun. - Sure, okay. Yeah, I'm guessing they didn't have video cameras installed then. - Absolutely not, no. - The other thing that's completely unrelated to that scene, but it's just popped in my head. You know that Travis has been discharged from the Marines, but you see him going to the shooting range and practicing his shooting and stuff. Would he not be used to that? - Well, I, no, because I think there's valuable information where he goes through his training regimen of the 50 push-ups, 50 pull-ups, all that kind of thing where he says my body, it's not exactly what he says, but it's something along those my body's become weak. I'm not going to poison my body anymore. We've cracked food. I'm going to get fit again and stuff like that. Hence why holding his hand over the stove, the push-ups, all that kind of thing, he's training now. He's training themselves to be-- - A soldier again. - A soldier again, yeah, absolutely. - And I guess if you've been out of practice, your A might be. - I don't know, yeah. - 100%. - And, you know, I'm assuming that policemen who have guns have to practice shooting the time. - Sure, sure. - So he's watching the telly and the way he holds this gun in this film, it seems to me that it was always pressed against his head. I think attending Notion there, I think for obvious reasons where he's thinking, maybe I should just end it now, or that's always on his mind. I don't know, maybe even one of those faults there. - But I did like the song playing in this scene because there's words along the lines of how long have I been sleeping, how long have I been drifting through the night. And I'm going to John here. I don't know if he knew the song. - It's Jackson Brown. - Okay, that song. - Yeah, I've got no idea what it is, but I just, I thought it seems like that. - Well, it is telling, isn't it? So it took me a minute for me brain to bring that back. It's Jackson Brown. - And yeah, and again, it is a song about loneliness and despair and all of those, you know, there's no way out. - On his trips around the city, Travis regularly encounters Iris, a 12-year-old child prostitute, falling her pimp and abusive lover sport into thinking he wants to solicit her. Travis meets a verdict in private and tries to persuade her to stop prostituting herself. Soon after, Travis cuts his hair into Mohawk and attends a public rally where he plans to assassinate Valentine. However, a secret service agent see Travis putting his hand inside his jacket and approach him, escalating into a foot chase. Travis escapes pursuit and makes it home undetected. There's a quick scene here where we see Travis right into his parents and he tells them that he works for the government and he's earning decent money and he's been seeing a girl for months, Betsy. And again, I just felt so sad. It's, again, how many people go through this where they hide this horribleness, I'm sorry to not be as eloquent, but this awfulness in their lives and he's just lying to his parents because, again, he probably thinks, well, I'm not gonna tell them 'cause while and while I worry him and what can they do about it anyway? - Yeah, we don't know what his relationship with his parents. I mean, it's still good enough that he feels he can write to them. And the fact that, you know, we find out he's 27 and he looks for one of a better word. He looks absolutely worn out and bought on. You know, this is a young man in the prime of his life and he looks awful with no prospect. - I was shocked when he said that. - Yeah. - I did not think he was 27. - No, I thought he would be in his 30s. - Yeah, definitely. - Think of anything more deeply with the scene where he pushes over the telly. - Why? - Well, this is what I wanted to ask the question. My only thought here is because it's a love type scene on the telly, it's, you know, this romanticised, telly, movie version of love and he's just seeing what a load of bollocks and I'm gonna destroy this. - Yeah, I think it's more, yeah, I think, I do, I agree with that absolutely. And I also think there's a point where it, this is the tipping point. I know that sounds, but this is his tipping point. It's gone over the edge now and there's no turning back from me. We immediately see him put his head in his hands and this kind of, it's, I'm done, I'm done now. - Yeah. - I wrote down like, is this just to show that he's like lost it? - Yeah, pretty much, it's the tipping point. - This is where Harvey Cartel shows up and this was a surprise because I really like Harvey Cartel, the main entertainer films obviously down the years, but I've not seen too much of his filmography, but it wasn't a surprise to see him in this 'cause he looks so young and looks so jacked as well. He's got some arms on him, the boy. But yeah, he's jacked. - Yes, but he's got a wiry frame, but his arms are big and I've never seen him in a role like this before. Again, this was a long time ago, but yeah, it was nice to see him and maybe this is why Tarantino wanted to work with him so much. I did see another interview with Tarantino talking about Taxi Driver, where he just thought Harvey Cartel was fantastic in this film. - Oh, he's superb in this movie and he's from the mini opens his mouth. You, he's absolutely hateful. - Yeah. - I just thought, I just got so few notes about him just saying he's one creepy, dirty motherfucker. - Absolutely. - For a minute one, everything about him is just awful. - Yeah. - And the weird coke canal he's got, he's got his finger. - Oh, it's just horrible. - Oh, God. And he's red as well. It's a really long, lady-like fingernail that he's got on his little feet. It's just creepy of the highest order of ease. He's clearly a fucking, I don't want to say it, but he's clearly a child-likeer, should we say? - Oh, I think he's very happy. You should be very happy to say that, you know, he, he gives his children. - Yeah, absolutely. - Again, we live in a time now where we're seeing it more and more frequently and fucks like this should be, should quite literally be blown away. - Yeah. Use the Magnum on him. - Yes. - Mm-hmm. - Which he does. - And like, yeah, in, I don't know, I'm probably just giving a head, but when Matthew is telling Iris all the things that she wants to hear, I'm just like, please tell me that he's going to die. Please tell me that Travis is going to kill him. - This is what, what, what, what was alluding to earlier. Isn't that actually happening? Or are we seeing it from, as you were saying, this is, this is Travis imagining him with Iris, which is now, you know, this is where I'm going now. You're, you're going to be my, I'm gonna release her from your sordid, fuck-wit brain. - Yeah. I mean, he thinks Travis is a cop, and he just about convinces him that he's not, but he does allow him to go up with virus. And like he just said, he tries to convince Iris, you know, is this, is this really the life you want to live? He's, again, that we can see Travis is a damaged person and he's prepared to do violent and possibly horrible things. We see him planning assassinations here, but he's still trying to help someone. And again, isn't this just what makes fascinating characters? Because he's got this fucking darkness in him, but he's still trying to save this little girl. - It's weird, isn't it? It's a real juxtaposition of this, that someone who is morally sound, morally, he should be absolutely fine and brilliant white. But there is, his only way of dealing with his seemingly normal morals is by seemingly being absolutely fucking insane. - Yeah, it's, again, I don't wanna spoil too many thoughts about the ending, but it seems to me that violence and darkness are what rewarded in the end. - That's what he's trained for. - Which is kind of a sad thought. - Which is also a big kind of allegory about what the movie or what America did to its young men throughout the mid '60s and early '70s, sending them off to Vietnam, 18 years old, and putting them in this horrendous situation, and then coming back and forgetting about them and having them, having to live their lives and deal with it all on their own. - Yeah. - With no reward, no one stood at airports and welcomed them back. If anything, they were spatter and rocked and were treated dreadfully. I don't think, again, this is what this film is saying. They come back to nothing. - He eventually manages to get her to agree to breakfast the next day at 1 p.m. Didn't really get that. It's not breakfast. - Oh, it's just a prostitute, right? - It's not breakfast, I'm sorry. - I was thinking, "Is it not brunch?" - But, okay, boy. - I did think that too, I was like that. - And I don't think brunch existed, then. - Yeah. But he let's all know in this scene that he might be going away for a while, and there is a little moment with her where she does seem a little bit sad about that. She, I think you can tell. She's maybe thinking, "Should I listen to this guy? "Should I go with him? "Should I get out of this life? "Maybe sport, isn't this savior of mine?" - Isn't this the first person that's spoken to her? - Probably, yeah, without wanting to do horrible things to her. - Yeah, actually spoken to her. Not wanting to do anything but just engage with her. - This is where I want to talk about, okay, I have no idea what to think about it, but the part where he sport, Iris goes back to sport after talking with Travis, and I think there's a moment where she's gonna attempt to try and get out of it. I don't want to do this anymore, and then we see him being a manipulative fucking scumbag and hug her and dance with her and say all these quote sweet things to her. It's just, it's so creepy, well done by myself. - It really is quite disturbing. - Yeah, it really is. - Throughout the entire movie, there's some bad feeling. - Yeah, actually, like it made me feel sick. - Yeah, but that is probably the most vile moment in the entire movie. - Yeah, it's, and we see some horrible stuff in this film, but that bit is quite hard to watch. It's really uncomfortable. - But again, going back to what you were saying earlier, that music plays. - Yeah, that's. - So this could be him. - What it is, do you think, is that weird? He's thinking that's going on right now. That's a really interesting take. I do like that. Because I just couldn't, it really threw me off when he put the record on, and it's that music we've been hearing throughout the whole film. - Yeah. - It's like, and why? That makes no sense, but that could be brilliant. I really like that. Well done, John. - Well, thank you very much. Thank you very much. Originally, I would have said it was down to copyright issues, but then we had other people's music playing earlier on, and they referenced Chris Kristofferson. So maybe that wasn't such a bad thing. You know, wasn't so obvious. But if it's in his head, and this is happening, this is Travis sitting at home with his hands in his head, or he's not watching the TV anymore, and he's thinking, you know, this is what he's doing to this child. Do you know what? - Do you know what? Do you know what? I think you could be absolutely spot on here. And I, again, I will research this film more after we're done with this, because I think this is a film that does credit multiple views and multiple thoughts and other reviews and people down the years. But I've got to know here, that at the end of that scene, there's like a jump cut to Travis shooting in a gallery. So it could be Travis thinking in that gallery right there. - Exactly. - And then thinking, I'm going to fucking shoot it. - Because at this point, at this point where we see him shooting, he's now everything's on target, everything's organized and he's ready to go. - So after burning the many flowers he got for Betsy, he sharpens his knife and he begins to write his suicide note effectively to Iris. And I do like how he leaves money out for her. And I didn't read the note he leaves to her, but it's something like, here's some money to help you get out and stuff like that. And I'll be dead. - By the time you read this, I'll be dead. - Yeah. - But again, the narration says, now I see the direction of my life is heading. So to him, his life now has purpose. - Yeah. - It's so sad. - Yeah. - It's so sad to think like this. - But it's sad for us, but for him, it's like, it's relief. - It is, yes. - It's relief for him. - Yeah. - It's now my life has purpose because I can go do this and I can kill these bad people and save Iris. Again, it's weird to feel because, yes, that's true, but also you shouldn't have to do this, Travis. So you shouldn't have to do this, but yeah. And the parade of palletide, this is where I did laugh while we watched the film because I knew what was coming. I knew the iconic pan up shot, and then you see the Mohawk, but all I did did this scene was look at Elle because she didn't know this was coming, and when the camera went up and you saw De Niro and his Mohawk, I just looked at Elle and you should have seen the reaction on her face, everyone. She was like, what the fuck is going on here? - Yeah, I was just like, what the fuck is with that haircut? Is it just because he doesn't want to be recognized? - The other thing about it is, it's really badly done. - Yeah. - It's like they gave him the clippers themselves. - Yeah, do it. - Which is, I think, yeah, that's what he did. He's not going to go to a barber's, isn't he? - No, no, exactly. But the back's all wonky, and I just think this is, it's perfect almost. - But he's doing that to try and not be recognized by the secret, is that why he's doing it? - I don't know, I don't think so, because if you're going to pick someone out in the crowd, that's going to be the easy one, isn't it? I think it's more like he's doing it for recognition, so they pick him out. And I'll come back to that later on, and he's a different person now. He's Travis on fire now. - But no, I think you've got a point, because when he goes to see sport later on, sport doesn't recognize him. - Right. So maybe-- - Maybe it's sport if I can dig it. - Yeah, but they've got no reason to recognize him at the rally. - But he's also wearing the exact same shirt that he was wearing earlier. - Yeah, maybe. - So maybe-- - Maybe, I don't know. - Yeah, I mean, it could be both, who knows, but yeah, in any case, it was a funny little moment for me, anyway, seeing there was reaction to that. - Is he going for his gun? Is that what he's doing? - I did think that, yeah. What are we supposed to think in that scene? Are we thinking he's definitely going for a gun, or is he going for something else to-- - Don't know. - I think it's played really well. I prefer that is what we see. I think if we saw him try and pull up, even if he saw a hand or anything-- - It would be wrong. - I wouldn't have liked that. - Exactly. - I think you're supposed to be on edge deal about what Travis's intentions is here, and is he going to go this far? Is he going to go over the edge? - Is he showing the vulnerability of Valentine here? You know, because anyone in the crowd could just come up and he'd just put his hand in his jacket, we don't see anything. And then he runs off and we're seeing that he is in a vulnerable situation. - Is this the film's warning to people, to not ignore people in distress and depression? Because anyone could take you out. - Absolutely. Dreadful to think that just a couple of years, well, a few years later, Mark Chapman did exactly that to John Lennon, you know. Big fan, big fan, big fan. Almost exactly the same situation, the scenario. He goes to see John Lennon one night, sitting in the front row of a theater. And two days later, he walks up to him in the street because he's a big fan and shoots him five times in the chest. - That's exactly what we're seeing in Taxi Driver. - I mean, if any country knows about assassinations, it's definitely America. - I love it, didn't I? (laughing) - That evening, Travis drives to the brothel where Iris works to kill sport. He enters the building and shoots sport and one of Iris's clients, a Mathioso. Travis is shot several times but manages to kill the two men. He then brawls with the bouncer, whom he manages to stab through the hand with his knife located in his shoe and finish off with a gunshot to the head. Travis attempts to commit suicide but he's out of bullets. Severely injured, he slumps on a couch next to his sobbing iris as police respond to the scene. A delirious Travis imitates shooting himself in the head using his finger. - Just the way he walks up to sport is probably-- - He shoots him in the stomach. - Well, he goes up to him and calls him sport and he goes, "Do I recognise you?" And he doesn't, he clearly doesn't recognise him because he's invisible. When he was Travis, he was completely invisible. This is the problem. - Is that what it is? - No, but he's not the hair. I mean, I do like that more. - I think he's invisible. - I think he's invisible. - I think he's invisible. - I think he's invisible. - You know, obviously there's gonna make a difference in if he had turned out in a check shirt, like, you know, cowboy. It would have been different, but I think for him, for Harvey Cartell, he's invisible. He just has shit bags talking to him all day long. - Sure. - He's invisible. And, you know, he gives him more grief and he flicks his fucking cigarette in because he's awful. And he takes it, he's gonna suck on this. He shoots me in the gat and then there's no real other interaction that I'm gonna kill you anyway. You know, you could have done been wonderful and I'm still gonna fucking kill you 'cause you're evil and you're horrible. You're a pedo, fuck with it. - And then he just-- - There you go. Those are my thoughts. - And then he just casually walks across the street and sits on a step. - Yeah, that's right. - Some decision-making going on there. - It's decision time now. He says, do I carry on? Do I sit here and wait for the cops? 'Cause they're coming now, I've just shot someone. Do I sit and wait for the cops? Or do I continue? I know where Iris lives. Fuck, let's go get-- - Keep going. - Yeah, we actually mentioned that because my reaction, when he shoots at him, I did react, I was like, oh fuck. I was surprised 'cause I couldn't, again, I couldn't remember too much about this film. But when he shot him, I was like, oh fuck. And then it's kind of played down if that makes any sense. - Absolutely. - 'Cause it's just another thing that happened in New York, isn't it? It's just someone's got shot, so fucking what? - It's just, again, it's this commentary on the violence's play down it because yeah, we're in this scumbag city and we have that little pause of him sitting on the step and it's just this calm and then we go straight back into violence again. - Yeah. - That's how easy it seems to be. - Yeah. - It's kind of harrowing, to be honest. It's, yeah, the ease of violence, I suppose. But like we said, in the summary, the little gunfight here and we now know why, now know why they hand blows up because I didn't really get it in the film, I just thought, oh bad, well, not bad, but make up of the time. But now he said about the bullets, I'm guessing that would do it. - Yeah, Dick Smith did the make up for this film, as far as I remember, who has done a plethora of films that hunger and loads, I think you may have even done psycho thinking about it, it might not have, but again, going back to Harman, but you know, many films with some very good at aging people, Dick Smith was, in films. But again, this brilliant make up artist and practical effects artist, you know, having fingers blown off and back to heads being blown out, has always been very good at that. - Yeah, I only noticed it because when you see the hand blow up, it's a very tiny hand. To me, it looked very small, it looked like a baby hand almost. - It's a baby hand! - I wasn't using that anyway. - Dick, my small hand. - Yeah, basically. Yeah, it just explodes with blood, it awful. - What? You only shot it, I was like, okay, oh, but now we know why. - Yeah, the bullets fragment as they come out at the end of the gun. - And that motherfucker's still alive. - Yeah. - Shoots him in the neck. - Yeah. - But yeah, he does get what's coming to him, thankfully. But again, like I said, I had seen this film before, but I couldn't remember if he lived or died here. I thought he lived. I was like, he somehow lives through this, right? And I can't remember why. 'Cause he's been shot so many times, but he does live. And again, if we're talking about iconic imagery in film than he is, the bloody twingo going to the temple. - Yeah, there's a couple of things here. One is Iris is massively distressed. - Yeah. - I mean, she really is, I mean, she's petrified and she, all she does is just shout, stop. Don't kill him, don't kill him, stop. And it's all she does. And I know it's, you know, I'm wondering if she knew exactly what was gonna happen here. Because she acts it really, really well. Just curls up in the corner. She just thrust herself in the corner and disappears effectively. And also going back to him with his head and his shaved head and doing this. I think this was planned. We see it before the assassination attempt where he sits and he's-- - In the cinema. - His fingers on his head. And then when the cops come in, 'cause he's already tried to blow his own head off, he's tried it and there's no bullets. And he looks at them and put, you know, four to his head. He thinks they're gonna kill him. He thinks they're gonna shoot him. He's a perfect target. He's made himself the target, but they don't. - I don't wanna. - I was just gonna say the bit that annoyed me with this scene, I don't know whether it was 'cause of what we're watching or if it was the actual film, but I even said to you, there was parts of it where the sound was normal, but then some of the picture was in slow motion. - In slow motion, yeah. - I didn't like it, it annoyed me. - Yeah, there's some slow motion. There's also some roughness around the edges. Like it's not breaking the fourth wall, exactly, and they certainly don't do that in this film at all, but it's rough around the edges. Like we're losing our peripheral vision. - Almost like we've been shot ourselves. So you're kinda losing the reality of what's going on. I think that's probably the... - When you put it that way, it sounds like it was, you know, really well shot and really well edited. - I've watched them analyze the number of films, especially over the last year. (laughs) - No, when I was watching, I was just like, I don't like it, no. - So again, we're going down the, not unreliable narrator route, but that kind of thing we're going for here where we're not entirely sure what's going on here. I mean, we can see that he's, this is not turning out the way he expected it. And even the aftermath doesn't turn out how we expected it. - No. - And certainly not how we expected it. - No. Travis goes into a coma due to his injuries. He's heralded by the press as a heroic vigilante and not prosecuted for the murders. He receives a letter from Iris' parents in Pittsburgh who thank him and reveal that she is safe and attending school back home. After recovering, Travis grows his hair out and returns to work where he encounters Betsy as a fair. They interact quarterly with Betsy, saying she followed his story in the newspapers. Travis drops her out of home and declines to take her money driving off with a smile. He suddenly becomes agitated after noticing something in his rear view mirror, but continues driving into the night. Okay, so we now see the police arrive outside the apartment and then it fades to the black. And this is where, again, I'm thinking, does he die or does he die? I'm pretty sure he's pretty certain he lived. And so that he does. And then like we see the narration from parents this time, not from Travis. So what do we think about this message from the parents? Is there any deeper meaning we're supposed to take from this? - Well, I don't know about deeper meaning. I think they're clearly happy to have their daughter back. We see a picture of two people that can't be her parents 'cause they look quite old. So I'm assuming they may be his parents that are pinned to the wall. Is there any other meaning than them just being heart warmly? Thank you, thanking him, that makes sense? No, I don't think so. - I don't know, maybe I'm looking for things too much now because this is clearly that kind of film. But I had a fault of he's good enough to get a letter, but not in person. - Well, they do say they'd like to... - They said they tried to visit him. But he was still in ICU. - Okay, fine. - And then they say that we just couldn't afford to come. - Sure. - To come back again. - Yeah. - It isn't that far in reality. - Well, I can admit that, but again, that was that. - Yeah, they're probably really poor and that's why she became a prostitute. - Yeah, exactly. - But like we said in the summary, he's now heralded as a hero. Who would have fought this violence and depression that has ruined Travis's life? He's now being praised for. What an ironic turn, isn't it? That society switches so easily on these kind of things. - Yeah, and is it because they're always, there's a kind of a thing that makes you think this is New York turning a bad situation into their own, look, we're clearing the streets almost like a palantines use this as a reason to be, we're clearing the streets. It may have taken a vigilante, but people are really standing up for themselves now. It clearly doesn't make him a better man. - No. - No, but like really, would he actually have gotten away with it? - That's what I'm saying, that New Yorkers used him. For their own mean, so it's a vigilante. Would they have not charged him with murder? - Surely. - Maybe, I don't know. - I don't know, it's questionable. I mean, there's manslaughter must have been on the, you know, through diminished responsibility. - Maybe because a child's involved, he gets a little bit of extra credit, I don't know. - I don't know, I'm assuming this isn't based on any true life story. - Who knows? - I don't know about that. But would he have been, maybe manslaughter, and then they just wrote it off, but clearly, you know, it was murder, he fucking shot loads of people. - So, was he planning on killing all of them that night? Or was it only because he got chased out of the president thing that he then went, oh, what else could I do? - Well, we don't know that he was gonna do anything with the president, no do we? - At what? - We don't. - No. - He went for his, he put his hand in his cup, could have been going for his pills, he could have been looking for a chewing gum. - Then why does he run? - Because they go for him. - Yeah. - But if you've got nothing on you, if you're not. - He could have his guns on him, but it doesn't mean he's gonna shoot him. There is a difference. Don't get me wrong, he likely hood, he's probably is going for a gun. - He's clearly prepared for action of some kind. - And if he would go for his gun, why wouldn't he use the gadget thing he's done? Be quicker, he doesn't, he goes for the jacket. - And he wasn't in a position to shoot anyone from where he was there, certainly not Palpatine. - So he's ever just out of time. - Not Star Wars, John. Do you know what? It was so hard not to stay Palpatine, but honestly. But yeah, so what do we think of this last interaction now with Betsy? Because my immediate fault, again, I'm probably in the cynical mind of Travis now, where I thought, oh no, now she's interested because he's a hero. - Exactly, not exactly that. She, her approach to him now is completely different. She gets in and she's, there's a longing in her eyes and it is longing, you can see it. She's clearly, this is a man who really did stand up for his beliefs and all the bullshit that she was standing up doing for the Senator was exactly that, exactly that. It was just bullshit and she's part of that, selling them, what does the bloke say earlier on? Like you're selling peanut butter or something like that. It really is. Whereas she sees in Travis now a true, a man that's true to his word, but he's having none of it. She's off of his radar. - I loved the spin here and I'm guessing it was intentional with a film like a lot Scorsese, but as we begin the film, we see Travis staring at Betsy. No words, just constantly staring at her. She notices him and she points it out. Whereas now, Betsy is staring at Travis, he's saying things or well, she's just staring at him and just to switch there is great. - Exactly. - Because he's infatuated with her at the beginning, now she's infatuated with him. - Exactly. - It's just genius. - But kind of for the wrong reasons as well. - Absolutely, yeah. And well, his reasons are wrong as well. - Yeah, yeah, no. - The frailty of society. - Nothing, nothing, there's no right way and moving slightly on from that. So we, you know, he's a reformed man and he's driving his cab and he interacts with his friends at the calf, wherever it is. And then drops off Betsy and drives away. And then he has this moment of doing it and his eyes flick over. It's still there. It's still in there. He's, will it ever stop for him? I don't think so. - That's what I mean. He's probably gonna go murder some other people and then he'll be convicted as a murderer and he'll lose a hero status. - I don't think he would do that though. - I didn't go that far. My notes here are when the film ends, we get the same imagery from the beginning, the haziness. So my thoughts were, this is just gonna be rinse and repeat for him. It's always gonna come back. Whether it goes to, I'm gonna go kill people again, I don't know. Again, this whole film could've been, but I don't know, who knows? Who knows? We're at this point. - This is the film that could quite easily have had a follow up. A mistake of magnitude, unpredictable it would've been. But, you know, because he's not, we can see at the end, he's still really quite touched by what's going on in society. - I follow up to a character study. Didn't film do that recently. - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I think Taxi Driver, it wouldn't work. - It would be a joke for evil. - Well, Taxi Driver, the musical. There you go. That's all we need. Yeah. No, but I think, you know, this is a film that definitely didn't need a follow up. And it was a prime time at, you know, mid late 70s into the 80s where that could've happened. And that would've been really bad. Leaving it just as it was, he's clearly still touched. He's not reformed. He may be in some way reformed, but you can't turn off mental illness just like that. You can't. - I'm glad you said some way reformed because I really took heart from the fact that he doesn't take her money when she gets out. Doesn't really say anything to her. Just smiles at her and drives off. And in my mind, I'm thinking, is he better now? Because he's, he doesn't need her now. He's got himself, like, he's come through this. And it's, again, fascinating things. And it's been where violence has helped him. Quote, he's helped him get over his depression. But the fact that he doesn't take her money doesn't pander to her now. She's pandering to him, then drives off. And then, again, like we said, there's that flash again. And people know who've been in that thing. It's very hard to get rid of, unfortunately. It can always be there in the background. And the fact that it's in a rear view mirror out of a taxi is a great metaphor because it does feel like that sometimes. It's always back there. But yeah, it's their hope for Travis. I really hope so, but is there hope considering what we end this real one? - I don't think so. - I don't think so, yeah. No, I just think it will continue. As you say, rinse and repeat, continue to do it over and over again. And at some point, we'll be dragged down by it once more. You'd like to think not? - Yeah. - You know? Go and visit Iris in Pittsburgh. Go to the retreat. - Go see your parents. - Yeah. Do those things. We will never know. And I think that's the class movement. - Because they didn't make a fucking sequel. - They didn't don't make a fucking sequel. - Called Taxi Driver. Foliadoo. Spawn alert for my fault on that feel. (laughing) - Fucking thing. - Well, it wasn't that bad, but that's another review for another day. Well, we may get to that at some point, but that is the end of Taxi Driver, everyone. So do you want to do a quiz first? Or should we do a listing ratings? Because I hope you usually ratings first. So who would like to go for? I think Elle absolutely needs to go first for the ratings for Taxi Driver. But you're honest, Elle, it's fun. - Look, after all that we've spoken about, I kind of feel bad for giving it the rating that I'm gonna give it, but I'm gonna stick to my thoughts of after watching it last night, last night, night before, whenever it was what we watched 'em. If I don't know what you think. I'll happily never watch this film again. I didn't enjoy it, I didn't understand it, and maybe because I didn't understand it, that's why I didn't enjoy it. But now that we've spoken about it, I understand it a bit more. So maybe I would watch it again and see it differently. Like you said, you didn't enjoy it the first time. You watched it. But the way that it's sort of in my head, it was kind of like a video game where you've got your main story mission and then he's failed at the main story mission. So he's gone off and done the side quest instead. - That's great. I think that's great. - And what an analogy that is, honestly, it's like, fuck yeah. - I didn't get the boss, so I'll just step over across the level. - Mission failed. - I guaranteed no one has had a nice texture after that, honestly. - I said to Ben this morning. Was it this morning or yesterday? I was like, I have a way to describe this film and I'm not gonna tell you. I'm gonna save it for the podcast, but I'm gonna write it down and that was it. But anyway, I'm gonna have to give it a bad, but maybe I'll change my mind if I watch it another time, if I fancy it. - Listen, I respect the honesty completely. - Me too. - Like I said, first time I watched it, didn't like it, didn't care for this film at all, and I will say my thoughts in a second, but no, I respect it. Like we said, some films just don't click with people. That's fine. - And you haven't said something that you've said for a lot of films we've seen and I'm surprised, but it kind of makes sense for this one. This isn't really a film for girls. - No, it's not. - Oh, I can't believe we didn't say that in the review. That was gonna be my main theme for this film. I thought this is primarily about men dealing with mental illness. - Absolutely. - And it really isn't a film for girls. So maybe that is also aged to this film there. You wouldn't get it or maybe take your film or watches. I don't know, but I think that's entirely accurate. Yeah. - It really isn't a film for girls. It just isn't, because the love interest, even though there's sort of two love interests in it, it's not, they're not emotional enough, and they're not, or they're not emotional enough from the girls' point of views. And they're not, it's not a sexual relation. It's more about him trying to deal with life rather than females. - So John, your fault? - I think this is an amazing film. I think it's an incredible piece of art. Is it, yeah, it's classic. It's an absolute classic. It's not a film I could watch every day, every week, every month even, but once a year, I think this deserves an outing just to, it's almost like a grounding film. You know, when you watch a piece of cinema and you think, Jesus, yeah, you know, take control, have a, man up. But it really is just a real kind of piece of, yeah, it's a grounding film for me that no matter how things bad get, you're never ever gonna be that fucking bad. - Mm-hmm. - Interesting. Well, there we go. There's John and Ellsworth's. So, like I said, didn't enjoy this film when I first watched it and I thought I'd be, do you know what, I'll be honest, I was dreading this when it come up as a suggestion because of my faults of watching it the first time. I was like, I'm really not looking forward to watching Taxi Driver. I remember being dull and depressing and just not fun at all. So I was in entirely the wrong mood to watch this film. I was prepared to go in and hate it. And the fact that I've come out so intrigued by this film, so entranced by it and wanting to look up at people's faults on it and reviews and go back and want to watch it again because I, again, I think I've missed out quite a lot in this film. I think it's a film that requires repeated views. Just, there's a testament to the power of this film and how amazing Scorsese is as an artist and he really is and the power of cinema in general, like again, we spoke about it before, but this is the power of cinema. Films like this are why cinema, I hope to God never goes away because my God, what a thing to lose. I know people were saying now that cinema could be going, even cinemas, you know, the fault of not being able to go and sit in a cinema would absolutely break my heart. It really would, just because of films like this, these films are amazing. Whether it's a subject matter like this, which is, again, admittedly not something to make you feel great, but it's just as important. This film's like Jurassic Park, Jaws and all these other kind of film, Raiders of Lost Ark. I agree. That's a lot of school back there. But I absolutely agree that that's exactly what cinema's about. It's tapping into those really raw, real emotions, whatever they may be, and you identify over them completely, whether it's escaping our reality or identifying very much of our reality as we live it and this film absolutely does that. So, my note is very good/classic and I can't help, but absolutely give it a classic. I can't help but give it now, a classic. - Do you think that the first time you watched it, you were in a position of, and you said the first time you saw it, you didn't enjoy it and didn't get it? Do you think you were in not the right place to watch it? - No, I think I was in the right place to watch it as in I hadn't gone through episodes of my life yet that really didn't go well for me. - Okay. - So, again, I watched it very young where I was still a little bit doe-eyed, shall we say, and it's a bit more, oh, the world's not too bad, it's all great. - I think we said about this earlier, I think that this film speaks volumes for that, but you have to have had experience. You have to recognize that the world outside is not brilliant. It's not to say that these are parts of it. I know we've been very down on the world as a society, guys, as a podcast, but it's not to say there isn't amazingness in the world and love and joy and everything else. There is some amazing, incredible people in this world. I'm sitting with two of them right now. - Thank you very much. That's really kind and we do, but that's what we do here. Stop that, you have to stop that. But that's what we do here is we are, we make joy and the world is a lovely, lovely place except that some people come along and fuck it up for you. - Like they say, the world is what you make of it. - Where's my gun? - Ready for a quiz. - No, this is good, I like it because this is what cinema should be. Apps are fucking lutely every single day, this is what's the difference between this film and it's a wonderful life. I think they run a very, very similar course. - One with a happier ending. - Yeah, I suppose, but they run, they really are a kind of an assessment of one man's life. - Yeah, I think it's a wonderful life is easier to understand. - It's somewhat, and less guns and blood. - But no, that is absolutely true, isn't it? It's how life can beat you down and keep being you down and keep being you down, but then having the strength to overcome it or you let it beat you. - Yeah, there's always, always a way out, always. - Absolutely. So do you wanna do the quiz now? - quiz, really cool. - Yeah, let's go. - I'm bugger. - What war did Travis fight in? - Vietnam. - From which movie does taxi driver take its plot line? - I don't know, John. - Would you like multiple choice? - Sure. - Star Wars, Chinatown, Midnight Cowboy, all the searches. - I've seen one of those, and it's Don't Figure Star Wars. - Well, I would say Midnight Cowboy, I suppose. - The searches, apparently. - Oh, is it? - Yeah. - Oh, I suppose it is because, yeah, all right, okay. I get that. - Never seen the searches, go figure. - Oh, you want to fucking cowboys, that's why. - What does Travis say he'd like palantine to do if palantine becomes president? - Clean up the streets, swap the scum off and that's something along those lines, yeah. - Clean up New York City would do. - Okay. - Which feeling overwhelms Travis's sensibility throughout the film? - Which feeling? - Would you like multiple choice? - Pain. - Passion, self-pity, loneliness or fear? - Loneliness, has been loneliness. - Yeah. - Certainly isn't where any of the other passion? - What is a slogan for palantine's campaign? - We are the people. - We are the people. - We are the people, yeah. - Not we other people. Who does not point and shoot an imaginary handgun at Travis? Travis, Doboy, sport or Charlie T? - Wait, is that a question again? - Who does not point and shoot an imaginary handgun at Travis? Travis, Doboy, sport or Charlie T? - Sport? - No, sport does. Charlie T does a killer, so it must be Doboy. - Yes, correct. Who is Doboy? - He's the one that originally says to him, "I can get you again if you want it." You know what he said, "Why'd you call him Dob, Doboy?" You'd do anything for a dollar. - Right. - In what year does the film most likely take place? - 1976. - 75, apparently. - Okay, 75. - What reason does Travis give in his interview for wanting to be a taxi driver? - He can work all hours or something like that? - He's in Somniak, she doesn't sleep. - He can't sleep, yeah. Who is the first person Travis kills? - The man in the store. - Correct, I was hoping that might trick you a bit. - No. - Who sells Travis his guns? - Andy. - Yeah. - Yeah. Where do Iris' parents live? - Pittsburgh. - Where would Iris like to go if she were to leave prostitution behind? - I can't remember what she says. - I was going to say a convent, a... - Commune? - Commune, commune. - In? - Mm, then a upstate. - Vermont. - Vermont. - Can I say upstate? - Why doesn't Travis get in trouble for shooting the man in the convenience store? - 'Cause he just runs away, you're done. I don't think the guy just says... - The man says he'll be all right and he gives him his gun. - Yeah, the cashier takes responsibility. That is all. - All right. So that is our review of Taxi Driver, guys. Thank you, Sue, for the recommendation again. That's another recommendation that I did not know. Well, again, I know I've said it that I've seen this film before, but thank you again so much for recommending it 'cause this is a second look at a film that I now believe is one of the greats of cinema. - Well, I think that's what this thing is doing to us. - It's making us go and reassess the cinema that we've seen and thought never gonna like this, go back and fuck me, it's amazing. - Yeah, or the reverse. - Or the reverse, which we've also had. - Yes, absolutely. And yeah, we really hope you enjoyed it and it's probably one of our dark episodes so far on the podcast. - Certainly wasn't as funny as... - In a bit of space though. (laughing) - No, but again, massively enjoyable. - Yeah, I really... - I absolutely loved it. And I have to say, for those people out there that are listening, I love doing this. This is my highlight of the week. - We are, yeah, all three of us are absolutely loving it and yeah, I can't say how much I enjoy doing this. This is a passion of mine I've had since. I was very young and like I said, I think in our Jurassic Park, what's our first ever one I've loved movies since I was a kid and being able to talk about it with these guys is just a joy every weekend. - Thank you. - Thanks guys. - Thanks. - Don't give us any. - Oh, yeah, I'm loving it. - It worked like it guys. - Thanks for that. I really love doing it. I just hate watching the movies. (laughing) - No, it's definitely teaching me a lot. It's making me look at movies differently when I'm watching them, I think. - Great. - Do you feel like this film, I was gonna ask actually, do you feel like this film is similar to Life of Brian where when we've talked about it, you then understand it more and appreciate it a little bit more? - Yeah, I think so. I guess one of those kind of things. - Yeah, and I think that's another reason why I quite like doing things as well because these podcasts is because we watch the film and quite often I'll come out of the film being like, I don't understand and I hope I can point to that. And then we talk about it and I'm like, ah, right. - I think that's the same for all of us though. - You get it. - We go in with one point of view. - Yeah. - You know, I was very much like it with Home Alone. I went in and I was thinking, I don't know if this is really for me. You know, I'm pretty much setting my ways but watching it and then talking about it, you think, how can hell? That's a great film. You know, it's like I'm I personally had missed so much cinematically and this is kind of re-educating me. And I think I know a lot about movies but really, you know, one doesn't until you've actually sit down and analyzed it and then what we do now is where we learn our trade, I suppose. - And listen, we've admitted we're not experts guys. - No, we're fucked. - We're not getting paid to do this as much as we'd like to from Warner Brothers or Paramount or anyone have you listened? - No, my term mode. If you're thinking about going on holiday. - Yes, we are not experts. We never claim to be experts. We're just three people. Well, two of us who love movies in the third. (laughing) Two of us who love movies and the third one tryin' the best. - Yeah. - You're doing very well. Don't let anyone put you down, love, don't know. Anyone put you down. (laughing) - Yes, we just love talking about films and we hope to pick up little nuggets of gold now and again and I think we did in this episode. I've really, really enjoyed talking about this one. - Well, I have to say as far as people who have requested movies, it also shows that our listeners and our people engage with us are really taking the movie seriously. They're not just throwing obvious crappers. - Random, yeah. - Or, you know, you go to comedy kind of feel good feel. - Indeed, yeah. - It's just giving us ones to properly analyze. - We're never doing, I think it's in my contract that we're never actually doing love actually. (laughing) - Well, Christmas comes around every year. - Yeah. - Is that a so many Christmas films, John? (laughing) - For that fuckin' film reason. (laughing) - I know, can you imagine if someone might recommend to something like Butterfly on a Wheel? - Oh my God. (laughing) - Oh my God. (laughing) - Oh, it's so good having you here. (laughing) - But yes, thank you again, guys. I know I keep saying it, but thank you again so much for listening, really hope you enjoyed it. And we are now deciding on the next thing to do. We will either spin the Wheel of Film tune, or I do have a series in mind, a little retrospective series. It will be not the whole thing, but I'm thinking one each of a series. I know that's not much of a clue, but I think we'll do that. I'm really excited by that idea. - Tune in next week and you'll find out. (laughing) - If I say the words of all four PPK, that might give you a, do you wanna give me other clues, John? - Oh God, really? - A lot too obvious, anyone. - No, okay. - At the moment, no. - Yeah, I can't bring you any other clues, but yes, that's- - It'll be a barrel of fun. - But hey, okay. That's all we'll say. - There you go, yeah. - Yeah, thanks so much, guys. Really hope you enjoyed it. Bye-bye. - Have a lovely week, everyone. Bye. - Bye. - See ya, bye-bye. (upbeat music)
