This is the podcast for 10x in your income and replacing your W2. I'm David Leko. I created a process that's helped people close over 10,000 real estate wholesale deals in the last seven years in all 50 states. And our guest today is an expert. He's doing deals that are in foreclosure and they have a very limited time window to find a solution before they actually have their house potentially taken by the bank or auctioned off to investors. And so he has a highly personalized strategy for reaching out and being a free consultant. And for you, these are great leads because there's a very urgent window of when these people will need help. So you're going to learn six ways that you can help and truly help somebody who's in foreclosure in this process and build your life towards financial freedom, of course, along the way through wholesaling real estate. All right, everybody. We got Devin Robinson who made $20,000 on his very first wholesale deal. When was that? And how did you find it? Devin. Oh, great question, man. So I would say that was March, April of 2021. And it was really an interesting story, super unorthodox. So I was actually producing TikTok as any good millennial does. And I came across a TikTok that was like, Oh, hey, get into real estate without any money and without any credit type being. And I was like, Oh, this is really cool. So I joined some discord. And then I was talking as I was learning about it, I was talking to my mom. And I was like, Mom, I think I'm going to get into this real estate wholesaling thing. And she was like, you know, that's what I do, right? And I was like, what do you mean? Your mom did this? No, I'll just wait, just wait, just wait. And so then she was like, she was like, I actually worked as an acquisitionist for a hedge fund. So my mom actually worked for Amherst at the time. And so it was really interesting. So I built out this system in the process of like just going straight from Zillow for sell by owner and then going to her. But what's really crazy is the very first CRM we had back then was deal machine. And so I began doing like from there, just kind of learning. And we would, we would go through, I'm going to try to pull data and try to figure that out. And it was really clunky because we didn't understand how to do it. We didn't know this like what whole selling was because like I was just going Zillow for sell by owner negotiating with them and then shoveling it to a hedge fund, which at the time was like a really hot thing, a really hot market and a really hot way to do it. And then quickly that like crashed and burned. So then I actually had to learn what wholesaling what do you mean crash and burned? What exactly do you mean? So yeah, I mean, November, 2021 is when all the hedge funds stopped buying. So we did, and this was really kind of crazy. My mom, she didn't give us any kind of special treatment. She was buying just like anybody else was buying as far as the hedge funds. And we did like 70 deals in the first six months because we were going and negotiating with these, these people on Zillow and then going to the hedge fund and just like milking that source. And then when they stopped, I had to actually learn what wholesaling was because like that's not wholesaling, right? Like that is a method of wholesaling, but like I had to learn how to go directly to the motivation either through driving for dollars or cold calling and texting and learning exactly what that looked like because that was not part of what we were doing. And so you were just looking at properties on market, on the market on like for sale by owner on Zillow and then like the hedge funds were buying so high that it ended up being like it actually worked and we did a ton of deals that way. And then once they stopped buying because the market was going downhill pretty quickly in between like November. So between April, actually, I guess April to October of 2021, we did like 70 deals in between October or so November in February, we did only like four deals. And so like a huge, I had to lay off all of my staff. It was a huge, huge learning experience for me in that time. And it's interesting. I wouldn't say it was a failure because like I learned a ton. If it wasn't for that, we probably would have been doing the wrong model, riding the wave of the of the economy at the time. But then it forced me to stop and evaluate like, what the heck is actual wholesaling? It is like, how do I go and build this out? And so I'm thankful I was in mastermind called collective genius. And through that, I was able to just honestly take like the next six months to put my head down, build out the systems and processes necessary to actually do wholesaling well. And so what does it look like to have the systems and processes behind? If I do drive for dollars and then come across a lead, like, what do I say to them? Because like I started to build that out. And then it got to the point where I was like, okay, we've got this thing moving. Now we're getting leads and people are actually interested. Oh, shoot, I don't have a good sales process to close them. Now I need to establish a sales process. And so learning what that looked like for us. So it was a huge experience for about six or seven months of me just going. This is hard. This is like very, very difficult. I'm in this and I feel alone, but it's worth it because one, it's, it's real estate. And two, like you could you I just, I just knew that it was going to be something that I wanted to spend the rest of my life doing and creating and scaling impact through it. And so yeah, it was a, it was a really interesting journey getting to kind of where we are today, where we do a bunch of wholesaling and kind of have the systems and processes in place to do that, but really starting out in an unorthodox way, crashing and burning, learning what it looked like to actually do this and then building from there. So yeah, it was a really interesting, maybe like a really long answer to your short question. Oh, no, I'm intrigued. So have the hedge funds started buying again now in 2023? I'm really interesting. We actually have started to get some offers and like read them offers on some of our houses that we have, which is interesting and they're not too bad of offers. They're, they're pretty like sight unseen. I think like an 86% like ARV offer on a sight unseen house and I was like, that's not too bad. Yeah, that's great. You know, for sure, after repair value, did it need repairs? The house that they put an offer on? Yeah. Recent one. It actually ended up putting it. So just depends on like kind of the method that we're doing, but we actually put that one on the market and they put an offer on it on the market like that. And it was in decent, in decent condition, it was almost like, I know people, we could wholesale to cash buyers, but also we do a lot of wholesaling to both cash buyers and also on the MLS. And so it was one of those that we, it was in good enough condition. It wasn't fully updated, but it was clean and we put it on there and then they made the offer from there. It's probably the only way we've seen a bunch of offers yet so far from the hedge funds. We do, well, I did have a ton of relationships, but through that up and down cycles, a lot of those relationships, those people got laid off. And so now we are going to look at what it looks like to pull back in, like see if they're buying again and then build those relationships because at the end of the day, like they can close quickly. Right. And I think we are moving into an age where like, I think if we get to like under 6% interest rates, they're going to start flooding again. So we'll see what happens with that. But I can tell like right now, because I think the rates as of today are like 6.6% and they're already starting to come back. So I can just imagine what happens as they go down more. That'd be right. Interesting. So yeah, Amherst is a hedge fund I haven't actually heard of too much before. So I was really excited to hear you say that. Yeah, I actually just did an episode about hedge fund buyers and who they are, where they operate. And a lot of the source of my information was from the collective genius group, where yeah, you got to be doing 100 deals per year to be in there, right? So that's like a serious group. It's a crazy group. It's cool though. There was posts online that said what hedge funds are you guys selling to? So I didn't see Amherst mentioned on there and I love hearing that you found luck from them. Because I didn't include that in my episode. So where where does Amherst buy do you know? This is kind of crazy. So Amherst during 2021 was like the biggest bar that I even knew of. And I think I know they have like 25,000 houses that they own now. And so they buy, I live in Charlotte and I know that they buy in Charlotte. They buy in Tennessee like Memphis, Nashville, they don't buy a whole lot of Texas. I mean, they buy in like, I had a list of probably like one of the only five market that they bought in. So they, well, anyway, anybody listening can go, you know, find the website. They have a website, right? If you want to sell them a house, you can just go Google them. So that's great. Yeah, so you had to learn how to find truly motivated sellers rather than just the people who already listed their house for sale. And so now have you built back your business to the same level it was at before? Yeah. And it looks different now. So and it has to look different now because there's no hedge finds and hedge funds are really interesting. They'll buy quickly, but they like to cap what your limit can you can make is. And so can't go over 20,000 with a lot of them. And so being in the, in the collective genius as I'm sitting there, I remember sitting in this meeting in one of our breakout or one of our, our rooms and his guy, Michael Frank, he got up and started talking about foreclosures and in his conversation about foreclosures. This was his very first one. This was like in the room, he actually, I came in seconds for the belt. He came in first because he, and then he went in and talked on like the main stage because it was just all that good, the belt that you get for having the best presentation. Yeah. Yeah. I got one right there actually. Oh, let's see. Like make like the little half and half is right here. Okay. All right. So I see it. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So he, he got that one. And that actually like transformed our business. And so what we decided to do was go directly to foreclosures. And so we do that at scale now, but we also do it in a fairly manual way. And so we actually came up, came up with the system, especially with Michael's help, like came up with the system to be able to ghost directly to the foreclosure attorney's websites and pull that up to date data because those attorneys have to by law broadcast when they've been given that case. And so typically how it happens is a bank goes into, you know, starts the pre foreclosure process. And because there's so many pre foreclosures that happen, they don't have the capacity to take all of these before closures and kind of file them and then put them through the process. And so they hire local attorneys to do that. And so I sound a way to be able to go and find all of the listings that our local attorneys have. And then I got really granular with like having our virtual assistants every day, like go in, scrape that data, add it to a list, and then be able to make it really accessible for our team to be able to contact them through either, you know, like, so I have cold callers out of contact them. And then I have our team will actually like my, my sales team will actually send like text videos from an iPhone to them. And it's hyper personal. It creates a ton of impact. People feel really valued and heard and seen because we do it that way. And that also leads to us getting just like huge, huge deals because like foreclosures are really interesting. Hey, guys, if you know you want to quit your job in the next three months, make sure you're subscribed to this podcast because we've got some incredible frameworks with step-by-step instruction that you're not going to want to miss. Also leave us a rating and review to let us know your favorite parts and why you want to get financial freedom. It's sure it's about money only because they're behind, but their situation and the solution isn't generally about money. And so for us, we step in and we get to know them. We try to give them a ton of value. And typically it's not even monetary value. It's value in helping them to enter into the next season of life for them in a very comfortable way in the way that they want to be. And that often is rewarded to us monetarily. And so like our deal is skyrocketed when we stop talking about, here's how much we can give you for your house, but more towards how can we be helpful for you and your life and the season and what you want and what you want to move towards. And so it was really interesting as we made that shift focused on foreclosures and then moved into the direction of being a lot more service oriented to the seller and how we could do that. And so it's been really cool. Okay, so is this theoretical or are there actually other solutions you're providing rather than buying their house? Oh, no, not theoretical at all. Yeah, no. So it just kind of depends. So it depends on the message that you're able to do with them, right? So granted, I know we're talking about wholesale on here, but we do like a lot of installment methods. We do a lot of subject to stuff like that that are able to help that person to either if they didn't have equity in their house to be able to get some house that it's a money out of the house by us paying them, which they wouldn't have been able to do. And then a lot of times we help people to find the next find the next place they go to pay for a security positive, pay for a mover. Actually, I have a deal in for what we had to deal in foreclosure. It was a lady in a place called hundreds of Illinois, Carolina, the house, her husband was 102 year old, two years old when he passed away. She was in a convalescent home with no legs, which is essentially like a long term hospital with no legs. And so she couldn't really do much. So we went in and we did an estate cell for her house. We moved all her stuff in a storage unit paid for three months in the storage unit, set up a trust for her because if we were to put that money in an account, the convalescent home would have taken most of her money. And then she wants to move to Florida. So we're paying for a moving service to move her stuff from the storage unit to the house in Florida that she wants. She's still going to make 150,000 on it. The house is worth 650,000. We got it for 297. And then when we flip it, we'll make over 200,000. Now that's a flip, right? But that could have also been done at a wholesale. We could have got rid of that house for or or 50 and still made over $100,000 on the house. And so we provided a ton of value for that lady. We were able to move her do take care of a situation, take care of her legal fees. Yo, like David, I went to court twice in front of a judge to help probate a copy of the will because her will, the will had gotten lost in the mail. So like because of the service that we provided for her, she was happy. I mean, like more than happy making what she made, she told us she had bigger offers. But like the value we provided is what got us that deal. And if we were to wholesale, like done a wholesale, we'd made 100. But we're going to flip it. We're going to make, I think like 260. So like different, but but yeah, so like, that's a very tangible. This is how we do the value type thing. That's a great story where you did the storage unit. You helped her with her will. You really went above and beyond more than just buying her house. And so it actually was obvious she appreciated that because she went with you even though you weren't the highest offer. I'm curious when you know that somebody is in pre foreclosure because you have found the public information. What's your outreach look like? Is it ignoring the fact and just kind of saying, Hey, do you want to sell your house? Tell me about that. Oh, this is, this is a great question. And I think this is what also sets us apart. So when we talk to somebody in, when we leave a video and we do all these things, we go, wait, you leave a video? Yeah, so our yeah, so this is part of the process. So I have do you have an iPhone, David? Of course. Okay, great. Fantastic. Now when you get a green bubble, like, what do you think? Scammer like when you get a text. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So you get a green text and it's a text is read. It's a scammer, right? And so it'd be for us. All of my salespeople have iPhones. So they have iPhones and they send text videos to those leads. Once we verify a number, they send a text video to that lead and become like hyper empathetic. So where everybody is going, Hey, you're in foreclosure, you need to sell your house fast. We're like, Hey, David, you know, I see the bank has had a, you know, set up a foreclosure on your property. And we think the process in which they do this is unfair. I'd love to be able to get together with you. I'm talk to you and walk you through some options to help you to keep your home. We have six options to help you to walk through there or to walk through that and keep your home. And so if you'd like, please give me a call back or a text. I'd love to be able to chat with you and see if we can be helpful for you. And so for them, like they're like, Oh my gosh, I mean, I've had grown men like in the military, like respond and be like, I cried when I got your message because it felt like you actually. And so for us, like we take a hyper empathetic approach, we walk them through options, typically the options eliminate themselves because it's like, they can't really keep their home because like the only real option to be able to keep the home would be like loan modification, pay it off bankruptcy, couple other things. And typically the natural option for them is to sell the property either because they once it's filed with the attorney gets it and it's got a court date, very slim chances for them to either pay it off because they're within North Carolina, they're within like 21 days. So are 21 to 30 days from their auction. So they've got very slim chance to either be able to pay it off or to be able to or to be able to reinstate it. And sometimes the only other option is bankruptcy. But typically, they actually people don't take that option. So that's been really cool. As we do that and be able to help those people, we come from a very empathetic solution oriented approach. And so yeah, that that's kind of that's the next thing we do when we get that information. So by the time you see the public information, they're typically going to have 21 days to figure out a solution. So it's very time sensitive data. And do you, you get their number and you text them a video of yourself, right? Yeah. So yeah, we'll give their number. We'll text them. Yeah. I mean, the data we give gives a ton of numbers. It gives relatives numbers and associates numbers. It's crazy. And so we'll get that information and we'll text them and and like I'll have so I have now granted, like I know I've been doing this and we've got a bigger team. So we do this in three different states. And so I've got it caller for each state. And then like when it comes to the videos, we call the people that are like either verified numbers or people that have or have like expressed more interest. So we make sure like the video aspect is an extremely personal touch that definitely that's the part from other people. Yeah, we'll love that. And the reason why it's only 21 days is North Carolina is a non judicial foreclosure process state, which means it doesn't have to really go through court, you know, they just set a date for the auction, basically, right? Exactly. Yeah. So if you're listening to this and you want to know how your state operates, basically the entire West Coast is non judicial, the only states in the middle that have like a longer process would be North Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico and Louisiana. And then pretty much all the top East, like the Northeast is all lengthy judicial process and everything else. I'd be sorry, Florida, terrible South Carolina, Louisiana. Yeah. Yeah. So and it's really interesting to a North Carolina. This is my favorite thing. I think North Carolina is one of the only five states that has a redemption period. So in essence, that house can go to auction. And then the seller by law has after the auction has 10 days to either pay it off or like pay off what's owed or sell the property. What's really unique is we'll get houses under contract in that 10 days. And then after that, so then we actually will talk to people like within that 10 days. Hey, we know your auction has been like your auction is over. You still hope you still have hope because what we can actually do as investors is like, let's say an auction goes and then on the 10th day, I can go and outbid the previous bidder. And that extends my timeline another 10 days. So that same house that we were just talking about in in Hunter'sville, I went and I bid against I bid so often to extend the 10 days because we had to keep going back to court and doing all these things that I started bidding one LLC against another LLC my own LLC's to be able to make sure that it kept going kept going. And so that auction happened in July. And then we closed on it in October. So it was what the auction happened in July and we closed got you over. So it was really interesting. And I love that about North Carolina. Yeah. So that's a really great dive into the foreclosure process. I wasn't expecting is what are the six solutions? Again, you said they could, yeah, I mean, restructure their loan, but you can really help them with that they'd have to work with their bank. So we just we just talk to them and we go, Hey, like which option is going to be best for you? Like we can't do this, but we can point this in the right direction. We get on the phone with their lender with them. We provide like a ton of value that that produces a whole lot of trust. I've had people who in the beginning, like we talked to, we helped talk to their lenders, we actually helped them to get a loan modification through their lender, or even start that process of a loan modification. And then they came back to us later because they remembered the help that we had or that we gave right. So these six options that we typically walk people through is you can get, you know, have you tried a loan modification? Have you tried to get a personal loan from a family or friend? Have you tried to be able to reinstate it? Have you tried? Like, we don't we typically don't adjust this, like bankruptcy. And we walk through the options on that. We talked to them, then we talked to them about other things to be able to help to keep the equity in their home. Like, have they thought about bringing in somebody that could possibly rent it out to them, like pay off what's owed and then rent it out from them? Can they pot or like a yes? So something like that, have they thought about getting together with an agent? And a lot of times, like as we're talking through this, they're like disqualifying each of them. Like they're just they're involved by themselves. Yeah, selves. Yeah. And then we get to the cash offer, which is the last one. And then like, we're like, Hey, look, listen, at the end of the day, like, I don't want this free. I know you don't want to do this. I want to help you to keep your home. Let's get on the phone with your lender. Have you thought about a cash offer for your property? And so then like, we'll get on the phone with their lender and their lender will be like, no, you don't have time to do this. And then like, I'll get off the phone with them and go die. David, like sets, I was really hoping that your bank would be able to help you. Yeah. It's a beautiful way to reach out. So I appreciate hearing all the six options you guys go through. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And then it's like, because in like the bank disqualifies it, right? Like the bank then is the enemy. And I'm their best friend that I'm like, you might want to consider telling it. I know you don't want to do that. But as we walked through these options and the bank told you, it might be the best option for you. And so we just deploy like a ton of empathy throughout this process because at the end of the day, like when it comes to foreclosure, the motivation is so strong, like so strong. And if you actually get a hold of them, you win, like, right? Like, do you actually get a hold of them? And I'm not saying like you win. And they're like, ah, you got it. But like, if you actually get older, then you're most likely going to be the one that gets that deal, not anybody else. So we try to make sure that we provide a ton as much value as possible in that process. So one of the old things I've heard from people that did deals a long time ago is that the foreclosure process goes through. And then the bank owns the property and they call it REO deals, right? It's like real estate owned by the bank or something. I don't really hear a lot about that anymore. So can you put you take on that as to why I don't hear about that? That's a great question. I think the biggest reason why you don't hear about that is because of the lack of foreclosures. So like, historically, after 2008, there was, I mean, I don't know the exact number, like 10 times more foreclosures than there are currently. So historically, we're at an almost an all time low, but we still are up from the lat. Like we're up. Yeah, there's still like a 30 properties to get auctioned every month here in Austin, right? Only 30s. Yeah, you said 30. Oh, okay. Yeah, in this little county, it's Austin. It's not a huge city. Oh, okay. In Charlotte, I think we have about. So we put in about 11, like 1500 records between North Carolina and South Carolina as a whole into our system. So like, that sounds about right 30 and Austin. And so we're still at historical lows. So because of that back, REOs were super popular because they would go to auction and nobody would buy them. There were so many houses that people weren't buying them. So then they'd go back to the bank because when the house goes to auction, the first, like if it if it goes to auction, nobody bids on it, the bank puts the first auction in or puts the first bid in. And if nobody outbids the bank, then it goes back to the bank, then it's a really state owned property owned by the bank. But the reason why we don't see as many anymore is because there's so much capital sitting on the side from institutional buyers and cash buyers that these banks are all getting bid on. And so they don't go back to the bank. But the ones that don't get bid on, then go back to the bank. So we've seen plenty go back to the bank, not nearly as much as you used to see in 2008 when or 2009 when there is just a ton of foreclosures happening. And that's why you don't see them as often. And once a bank owns it, they don't really respond to like investor outreach. They typically will eventually just list it with an agent that they work with, right? And then that's how that exactly right. Unless you have some kind of like in with the bank, which like if you do, like let me know, like unless you have some kind of in, they're not selling them like that, they're listing them with an agent and getting what they can got you. Are there any other types of leads that you guys work? Or is it mainly the foreclosure process? So for the past year and a half, all we've done are foreclosure leads. Now it's been our average deal side is, is significantly higher because of it. And so we have, we just, there's no, there's been no reason. So for me, my mindset has been over the last year and a half, I get free data from the county. And then I'm going and I'm paying to skip trace it. And then I have my team do a lot of the manual work from either like door knocking or sending the videos and calling and doing those things. And so I don't have to pay now mailers like ads on to it. If you do mailers through you guys, like that would be significantly better if we did that. We just hadn't run into a niche time where we're like, we needed to do that. But we actually, huh, you got good things going. Yeah. So for us, it was like, I don't see, I didn't see a huge reason in, um, spending a whole lot of money and marketing when we didn't need to. So our eyes like out of the roof because all I'm paying for is VA's at this point. And so I think like that's a really good way for people to get started because people are always like, Oh, how should you get started? Like driving for dollars is really, really great. I think there should be like two parts of it. Go and grab the data from your county. Um, go door knock these, these houses from that data that you get. And then at the same time you're doing that drive for dollars. Yeah. Well, yeah, then we're not the people who you've pulled from the county because it's so critical. The only have 21 days or less, depending on when you think they're right. Yeah. So or not. They're phone. They're answer their phone because they don't answer their phone for us. They're, they're probably have credit cards calling them car payment, calling them. They're not answering their phones, but they're home. And so breaking and knocking on the door is going to be significantly better. And then at the same time, do either driving for dollars, do those things that get you more leads to build that up. But the closest to the, we call it what's close to the money. The closest to the money is those people who have the highest amount of motivation, which is the foreclosures. Right. Devin, you have so much to give. This is a great way to end. Um, if, if anybody actually has deal machine and they have the list of foreclosure leads, you can upload them and then, uh, reverse drive for dollars so the app will guide you to drive by all those houses that are in foreclosure so that you can take the most efficient route and knock on all those doors. Um, and if you guys don't have a trial, you can get one at deal machine.com/pod and, uh, Devin, do you have a social media account where you post anything? Oh, yeah. Um, I guess I, I posted get amount on, on Instagram, Devin dot Robinson one. Um, yeah. And then like, I just have a, and then again, like I have a Facebook group that I don't sell anything out of at all. Like it's just what's the root as much value as I can, you can go to realliferei.com and it'll take you straight to that group, but it's called real life rei. So like real life really state investing. There's a bunch of people in there that aren't investors that want to learn about it. And I just, it relatively new. I just want to give as much value as I can in there. So, um, yeah, it's real life rei.com. And we'll thank you so much. You're a great storyteller and you've been a great guest. Thanks. And I appreciate you. Um, no, this has been fantastic and I've been, I've enjoyed following you over the years and super thankful for the product that you've created as it was the very first CRM we used in our business. And so, uh, really cool man. I appreciate you having me on for sure. Is your mom doing okay since the, uh, hedge funds stopped buying? Yeah, she works for me now. So she, um, oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty cool. That's amazing. He knows it. Yeah, I'm really thankful. Well, thanks. And I hope you have a happy holiday and a great new year, Devin. And I, uh, as well, man forward to publishing this episode. Thanks for listening to the deal machine real estate investing podcast. Please leave us a review and follow along wherever you're listening to your podcast. [inaudible] (breathing heavily)
Devin Robinson shares his journey in real estate wholesaling, starting with his first wholesale deal and working with hedge funds. He discusses the importance of building systems and processes, as well as finding truly motivated sellers. Devin emphasizes the value of providing solutions beyond buying the house, such as helping sellers in foreclosure navigate their options. He also highlights the significance of personalized outreach, including sending video messages to potential sellers. Devin concludes by discussing the current state of REO deals and sharing his insights on other types of leads.
Key Talking Points of the Episode
00:00 Introduction
01:03 How did Devin find his first wholesale deal?
03:15 Why did Devin stop selling deals to hedge funds?
04:09 How did being part of a mastermind help Devin learn about wholesaling?
05:32 What are the hedge funds doing in today’s market?
07:46 What markets is The Amherst Group buying in?
08:34 How did Devin rebuild his business after learning about wholesaling?
09:24 What kind of deals is Devin focused on today?
12:21 What kind of support does Devin provide for the sellers they work with?
15:10 How does Devin approach leads in preforeclosure?
18:30 How does the non-judicial foreclosure process work?
20:41 What are the different ways Devin helps sellers restructure their loans?
23:28 What is happening with REO deals today?
25:25 What other types of deals is Devin getting involved with today?
27:50 How can you follow Devin’s real estate journey?
Links
Free Trial: Deal Machine App
https://www.dealmachine.com/pod
Instagram: Devin Robinson
https://www.instagram.com/devin.robinson1/
Facebook Group: Real Life REI
https://www.realliferei.com
