Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the mindful muscle podcast with my fabulous co-host, Jody. How are you doing today? I'm great. Thank you. If you're new here, welcome to mindful muscle. Geo and I are two friends that collectively have lost and kept off, kept 140 pounds off. And we fell in love with the process. And the reason behind mindful muscle is we want to show people that it is doable. It's doable in sustainable ways and it's worth it. Amen for that. So tell us about our new friendship with Podbeat. So Podbeat is this awesome app that I discovered. If you're like me, where you really don't get time to listen to podcasts very often, I know I have a podcast and I don't listen to podcasts often. But when I'm doing cardio, if I'm doing housework, I prefer to do so with a beat. Here comes the beauty of Podbeat. You can listen to any podcast or an audiobook and put a beat to it so that you can still listen to the words, listen to the message and still get that beat. So when I'm folding laundry and I need the time to go by quickly, I can still do it with a beat so it doesn't feel as tedious as it would without. And I can still listen to the message and actually hear what the podcast hosts are saying or the audiobook, what the reader, the narrator is saying. So definitely give it a try. It's Podbeat_app on Instagram. And if you visit them, tell them that mindful muscle sent you. Wonderful because our next guest, you're going to want to listen. And if you want to listen with a beat, go to Podbeat. Dr. Effie is a clinical psychologist for over 20 years, her experience. But then she combined that with the wonderful world of bodybuilding and fitness. And I love her mission. Her mission is to bridge the gap between bodybuilding and mental health through awareness, education, and support. Welcome to the show, Dr. Effie. How are you today? Hi guys, I'm great. Don't terrific. Thanks for having me. So off the bat, what is a bodybuilding psychologist? So a bodybuilding psychologist, someone that supports bodybuilders in navigating any mental health issues that struggle while they're on a bodybuilding journey, being a bodybuilding competitor is quite an extreme sport. And there's a lot of mental health issues that actually come up. You need a really strong focus mindset to be able to get through that journey. And I noticed that there was a real gap with people struggling and not really knowing where to look for that help, because when you go to any other counselor or therapist and you describe some of the issues that you're struggling with, whether it's typical things that you would struggle with as a competitor, like hunger or fatigue, sleep issues, trying to juggle that with other demands in your life. And somebody else that you seek help from myself, oh, look, this is quite an extreme sporty. You sure you really want to do that. It's really getting in the way of your life. But this could be someone's passion. And, and this is the, all those extreme things are part of it, having someone to support you through that, if that's important to you, that also knows what it's about, because I've competed myself, you know, has been, you know, very rewarding for me. And I think really helpful for, for those competitors. So that's what the bodybuilding psychologist is. I love it because I know recently Geo asked me on an episode, Jody, would you ever consider doing a show? And I off the bat said no, because I'm scared of what I, my mindset going through that, because in the past, I've had issues with an all or nothing mindset. But then recently, I was asked if I could take a friend's bodybuilding show training, coaching training program. I'm not even sure the details at this point. So it looks like I might be doing a show maybe sometime next year. And I am very cautious about my mindset. So I love what you're doing here. Absolutely. Oh, I love that. That is, that's, I'm so excited for you. And look, I think as scary as it is the, what you have to gain is so much greater than all the things that you're actually scared about. And you don't have to be someone that's been sporty or you're live for an athlete or your life or anything like that. I wasn't. This is like a relatively new journey for me. I started this much later in life. And that's also the beauty of this sport that you can actually start at any time. And with consistency, you can get good at it. Jody says she has that all or nothing mindset. I've spoken to other women and men who have come from an eating disorder background, but who feel that, yes, maybe this is something I want to tackle. What would be some of the triggers or some of the things they should be aware of in order not to fall back into those bad habits? Yeah. Look, the first is that you do need to make sure, well, this is something you've dealt with if you've had a history of an eating disorder, that it's not something you've swept under the rug and kind of forgot about. And now you're putting yourself in this situation. I would hope that it's something that you addressed with the right support, the right professional support. And if that's the case, then obviously that would make it a very healthy thing to do. And a lot of people find they do actually recover from a lot of eating disorders through that because it's very structured and it's working towards a goal of purpose. When you're restricting in that all-nothing mentality in an eating and disorder, on the surface, it can actually look very similar to someone who's working, who's going towards a comprep because you're both restricting. You're both exercising a lot. So on the surface to someone, that could look the same. But the difference is the intention. So someone who's preparing to compete is actually working towards a goal. And they're working to better themselves, to improve themselves in some way. Someone who's got an eating disorder, self-love, that self-destruction, right? That someone who's actually want doesn't have that love towards themselves and is destroying themselves essentially. The risk factors are really, first of all, you want to look at someone's mood, someone's intention, like why doing this is it to actually to improve yourself, to put yourself out there, to go out of your comfort zone, to challenge yourself. If those kind of positive things are the reasons that you're doing it, that's a good sign. But if some of the reasons are, you know, more negative things that you just want to get smaller and you want to look a certain way, that could actually be negative. If you're looking for validation, perhaps that would be a red flag. There would be the sorts of things. And different issues come up with different phases of the comprep. So again, you hope you wouldn't be doing this alone, that you would have a coach guiding you that can pick up on any of those warning signs. OK, OK. I mean, because you mentioned earlier that it seems that it's an extreme experience that I know from other people, that there is moments of extreme hunger. There are moments that I know people feel like they want to quit because it's tough. What are some of the things you would coach them through in those dark moments? I don't want to say dark, but those pivotal moments that are difficult. Yeah, so I think the first thing is that I would get someone to tell me what their why is. So you want to be very clear why you're competing. What is the reason? Because as I said, if there are the reasons behind you competing are things like external validation or praise, that's not going to be sustainable. So you want to talk about why someone is doing it. For many people, it is about self development. They want to challenge themselves. They want to see how far they can push themselves. And they know that in doing that, that improves their life. That's a skill you can transfer to other areas of your life. So that will be the first thing to really get someone really laser focused increasingly while they're doing it, because that helps them then focus on doing so. Once we've we've established that, then we look at what's getting in the way. So is it is it physical things like hunger and fatigue or is it other things? Social things, not many people have lots of supports around them on this journey. Many people don't understand why you might be doing it while you're not going out now and eating without sitting at meals, but not eating. So we've got to look at what's getting in the way. And basically the finalist is shut out that noise, all those distractions. So it does depend what what someone is presenting with. And many people unfortunately don't don't have our support. I've had people that have had partners that are not doing realize this is what it's going to happen. And so we've got to we've got to really be clear why they're doing it so they can push through. What typically is the duration of a prep session? Let's say for somebody who's already in shape, they're not overweight or anything, but wants to get show ready. Look, it really does vary. But what I've and I'm not a bodybuilding coach or such, but from what I've observed in others, it's anywhere from 12 to 16 weeks. Usually if someone has been already through a building phase and now they're ready to cut. That's typically the average I would say. I was looking at your website and I saw that you have a checklist. So I was my first time checking out your website and checking out your checklist. And I feel like even though I don't know when this show is going to be, it's probably going to be sometime next year. I feel like that is a good thing to reference, like knowing my why and making sure I have coping mechanisms. Do you have any recommendations for a coping mechanism when things are getting tough? Yeah. So again, look, I think it's really important to just be aware of actually what you're feeling and what you're going through because I think when often when we try and work towards a goal, we think, I can't be stressed now. I can't feel anything. I've got to just push through, only focus on actions. And while that that is great way to be disciplined, I think, yeah, it's important just to be mindful of what you're actually feeling. So if you are going through stress, then okay, how do you deal with that? We've got to look at what the actual problem is. What are you stressed about? What steps do you need to take to solve it? So that might be something practical. If it's more emotional, allow yourself to feel those emotions, whether something happened that made you sad or something made you angry or are you stressed about something has nothing to do with the bodybuilding journey, maybe it was at work or with a family member. So the first step would be just to allow yourself to feel what it is to acknowledge or come really stressed right now. And there are ways that you can learn to relax. It's one of the things I work with people on different relaxation techniques to slow down. They're breathing attention going from their body so they feel a bit more in control rather than letting that stress control them. And so you deal with it head on and then you move on. You don't stay there too long, otherwise you can't take over. And then that kind of clouds everything and then that laser focus is gone. One of the issues you see often is the partner of the person competing is not on board. If there's somebody who that's listening to this episode now, they know somebody, their significant other is getting ready to compete. What advice should they hear or how can they better support their partner? Maybe they don't understand because it's not their sport, it's not their passion. How can they better help their bodybuilding competitor? So for them to help their partner, it has to start with the competitor. So what I mean by that is before the competitor starts their journey, they need to communicate to their partner the why. But they're doing it. Communicate that passion because if you're communicating something you're passionate about, that's going to come through. And so you would hope that your partner would want to support you in a goal that you've got and your passion. So that's the first thing you would communicate your why with them. And then what you do is you tell them what it looks like. It's something I've got there on that checklist that you've downloaded that to tell your partner what to expect during this journey. So they can be more accepting of it. I think a lot of times the competitors and communicate that. And they just say, look, I want to challenge myself. I'm going to do this competition. I've got a 16-week prep. Let's go. And so as it unfolds, the partner, yeah, the feels left out of this whole process is didn't realize that there's going to be these mood swings coming along. This fatigue that they are, that their competitive partner is falling asleep early and waking up early to train and things like that. So yeah, you've got to first communicate all of that. So that's the easiest way to be supportive when you know. That's what's happening. And like any other relationship, just communication. If the partner is unhappy with something or confused about something, communicate it so that you can talk about it, find a way to manage it. And the only thing to do to remember is this is not something you do forever. This is, as we've said, it's 12 to 16 weeks possibly where things are gradually getting more extreme. This is not the whole of your life. So it's only a phase. You'll go to restaurants after, you'll be able to sleep in more and things like that after that. So I think that's the other thing. This is something you're doing that has a start and a finish. And it's for a certain purpose. And it's for a good purpose. It's to improve yourself. Jody's question, I found it fascinating. So you begin with you, right, communicating to your partner. What are the first things after that initial communication that begins to affect? Is it the mind starts weighing on you? Or is it the hunger? Or is it physical changes that begin? What's the first thing the bodybuilder, let's say if Jody goes through it, they're going to encounter? It's usually the mind. It's self-doubt starts to creep in. Can I do this? I don't know if I'll be lean enough. I don't know if I'm going to look good enough. You start comparing yourself to other competitors. Unfortunately, social media doesn't help with that. And you might see other competitors and things like that. So that's where it kicks in. I actually find in many ways, at least initially, the physical part is easy. You have a plan, you follow the plan. You prepare your meals, you've got your meals all prepared. That kind of actually removes a lot of stress. You have a training program. You follow that. If your coach is someone face-to-face or like a trainer, you attend. You go through all the motions. And then as it gets closer and you might do your check-in and you put a bikini on and it's very confronting, the mind likes to start playing games with you. And maybe tell you're not good enough and that sort of thing. So that's where that creeps in. And again, there's things you can do about that. First of all, again, you hope you've got a coach that's supportive and will tell you if you're on track and what needs to be done. Maybe it's a journey. But the other thing that's really important in bodybuilding, unlike other sports so much, is it's you versus you. You're really trying to beat yourself. You can't. It's not a running race. If you just go that little bit faster, you can't control what your body's going to do. Nobody knows when, especially when they start the first time, how you're going to respond to a certain training program, to certain foods. So, we'll take your metabolism, we'll be different to somebody else's as well. So, you just don't know. So, it's a little bit of experimenting, a bit of trial and error to see what works. And then you have that information then for your next competition that you can improve. You can see what worked, what didn't work. So, that's why it's so important to shut out the noise, just stay in your own lane. Focus on what you need to do to get to your goal. Now, do you see clients in person or is it all virtual? And at what point do they see you? Do they see you when they're already starting the struggle? Or does anybody contact you before they even start the prep work and start struggling? I'm here at Lookout in Australia. And I do have a clinic where I say people face to face, but then that clinic is not so much the bodybuilding competitors. That's a general population here that struggles anxiety or depression. So, it's virtual. And it's some good question you ask because people, the competitors come at different points. Sometimes it's actually triggered by something I've posted. So, someone might talk about, yeah, I've spoken about the struggles post comp that many people have as they go, like recently I've spoken about it. So, the struggle from after you've been on stage to then going on a reverse diet and building again, some people struggle to see their body change. And so, they've seen a post like that and contact me about that. My gosh, that is totally me. I'm struggling with this. I didn't even know I could get help with this or I didn't know who to ask. So, sometimes it's that other times people have just come across my page and thought I'm about to compete. I really want to be the best that I can be. Can we work on just the astrologists to help me keep focused? And then, other times it's people that really have had a struggle. So, maybe it's been cheating. Having a setback of some sort and I just want to get back on track. So, they've contacted me at that point. Yeah, it really is at different points. But I think for stops people from getting help, it's first of all not knowing there's help out there. Yeah, you know, you go to your coach who's given you the plan, but your coach is not a therapist. They're not a psychologist. They're limited in what they can really offer you in that way. They can encourage you. They can tell you positive affirmations. They can give you that pep talk. They can talk, of course, from their own experience, which would be very valuable. It's at some point it stops and you need some further help. Do you ever have a client and you're just like, this is not a good idea for you to go through with it? Do you ever get to talk to anybody that's at that point that maybe they should reconsider or are you supportive? Or do you help them through regardless? I haven't as yet, but this is when I would. If I can say that this is a full-blown eating disorder, like this is not the intention, it's not, like I said, to better yourself. It's just almost like a secret pathway to continue an eating disorder. Then I would say this is not the right path. We need some further help also, because to deal with eating disorders, it takes a lot more than just a psychologist. You actually need a doctor on board. You need a dietitian or nutritionist on board. It's a team effort, so I wouldn't be able to help on my own with that. But really, I wouldn't tell someone to stop. If this is important to them, then we need to do everything we can to help them achieve that. And maybe it would take longer, but that's the last thing I would say is, I don't know, this looks like it's too much for you. They're coming to me because they want to do it. But other factors are getting in the way, right? So many times we want to achieve something, but things get in the way, so we don't just say too much, I won't do it. Otherwise, we'll never achieve anything. Men and women are so different. And when men and women are under stress, they handle things different. How have you seen the difference when it comes to bodybuilding competitions of how men and women deal with the stressors that come with this sport? You're right. They do deal with things quite differently. And very generally speaking, men do like to be more practical, black and white, right? Focus on actions. Women to talk more about how they're feeling, work through the emotions, the thoughts, both have merits. And I think the issue with men is that because they can be sometimes very black and white like that, they sweep a lot under the rug. And that's a problem because that can go over time. And I think there's this misconception, like I said before, that you, you know what to be successful. You can't feel anything. You've got to be just totally focused on what you do. And that's incorrect. Things that don't just disappear. They're going to come back to the surface. So if you just sweep them under the rug, are doing courage. Men and women, like I said before, if you're feeling something, allow yourself to feel it. Don't sweep it under the rug. Take a moment just to sit back and notice what am I actually feeling? What am I struggling with? What can I do about it? Or do I need to learn a way to manage it? And you do that, and then you can move on. Right, like I said, you don't stay there so that it totally takes over. But yeah, that's what you need to do. And when it comes to the physical changes, we've spoken about hunger and most people will get that. But I know there are other physical changes for men and women, like libido, fatigue. What are some of the other things people should be aware of if they're going in a competition like perhaps Jodie will? Yeah, moodiness. [laughter] You know, you can be quiet. She doesn't need more ammo. You should see her memes. All of that. [laughter] You know, I think the thing is, all the things that you've just mentioned as well, they'll have flow and effects, you know, to each other. So obviously, if you're not getting much sleep, which can happen also to be hungry, but if you're not getting much sleep, you're going to be more tired. If you're more tired, then you're more irritable. They would be the sorts of things. And again, you just need to just listen to your body if you are quite tired and you didn't get much sleep. Are you able to actually have some naps while you're in this? So you've got to really listen and see, what am I needing right now that's missing? And what can I give myself? And how do you convey that to the spouse who may be looking for some quality time, looking for attention? Because this is very consuming. But you can't abandon the relationship. Look, again, this is why it's so important to communicate what to expect. Okay. Now, if you're a first-time competitor, you might not know what to expect. You might have heard some things you made. You might communicate what I'm saying right now. I heard this is going to happen and that's going to happen. Just, you know, what? So you do that to the best of your ability and you communicate that as compassionately as you can, and hope you get that compassion better. So there's some feeling, well, libido is not crash-hot right now. And this is temporary, though. I mean, this prep, when this prep is over, gradually as I eat more and I get my energy back, I'll be able to do more and enjoy more. It's just been really stick, not punitive about it or anything like that. Just explain how it is. And, again, I think the other key thing as I said is this is temporary. So this is not like how do I deal with a libido issue. It's just a prep issue. I already feel like I'm getting better prepared before setting a date or anything. I love it. Gee, it's going to have to deal with my moodiness, though, apparently. Yeah, I know her mercy. Her memes are fire. Look, I think also I'll just add, too, that when you're communicating all these things to your partner, plant some nice things that you'll do when prep is over as well. It's just to have those things to look forward to so that, look, it's going to end on this particular date. Why don't we plan X1Z that we're going to do? So that can also help. Along with show prepping and, you know, we talk about the physical, the mental, what about the body image issues that people deal with? Yeah, look, the body image issues, there's different body image issues that come up during the comp prep and then following that as you're in a building phase. Because the thing with bodybuilding is the aim is not to stay the same all the time. It's not generally the majority of the population. If you want to be like a healthy, have a healthy fit, fit, physique, that you just want to maintain that the same way. Bodybuilding, you're going to go through these different phases throughout your building, your cutting, so you're going to be facing different issues at different times. Comparison is a thief of joy, as they say. So if you're going to start comparing yourself to where others are at, along with the same number of weeks out as somebody else, then you could fall into that trap of wondering if you're ready or not. And it is a physique competition. So it's going to happen. You're going to be looking at yourself. You're going to be weighing yourself. There's going to be a lot more emphasis on that. And I think again, hopefully you're not doing this on your own and you do have a coach, be guided by your coach. If you've got doubts, if you'll be ready, if you're on the right track, you ask them and be guided by them and take their word for it. And like I said, you're staying your own lane. If you're getting too distracted by images of other people or where you should be, stop looking. You might need to get off social media for a while. And I see this in a lot of the Facebook groups that are for competitors to support each other and so on. And so many times I see women asking, can I see somebody else who's five weeks out? I just want to see if I'm on track or not. And I just think, oh my gosh, like this is so unhelpful. Like everyone is so different. How? That's not going to tell you anything. That just tells you how somebody else is. And it's not, okay, they're looking like that. So I've got to rush quickly to get like that. Like I said, you can't control your body. There's not, can I just run a bit faster? It's not like that. Yeah, so I think with those body image issues, first of all, again, accept. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. It's a physical competition. You're looking at yourself, actually. And you're going to have people judging you on that. You have a plan. You just keep following your plan. You'll be guided by your coach if there's changes that need to be made. And basically shows it sounds you have to trust the process. You just have to do what you're told and do what you need to do. Do you think there's Facebook support groups or other social media support groups? Do you think they are more helpful or more harmful? Yeah, look, generally speaking, they're very helpful. The support groups people don't like to feel alone. And as I said, some people do feel quite alone in that journey, because they stop going out as much. Maybe they have a partner or family members that are not supportive. So generally, just being in a group where other people in the same position is very helpful. But you've got to like anything else. You've got to take things with a grain of salt. You've got to know what to listen to and what to just put aside so that you take the best bits out of it, you know? You are a psychologist for over 20 years, and then you came to this later on in life. What was your why for doing this? My mom might not be watching what you expect. So it's a bit of a story. Yeah, I was never a sporty person as a child. I was never an athlete at all. So I'm not, I don't come from that background whatsoever. But when I was in my like 30s, so, okay, I'm in my 40s or I'll just get that out there. So I'm 51, don't worry about it. Okay, we're all good then. I left it. When I was in my life 30s, I left an emotionally abusive marriage. And it took a lot of courage for me to leave that. And I've got three children. And once I left that, you took me quite some time to recover emotionally. And about a year later after I felt, okay, I'm stronger emotionally. I'm getting my life back together. Something in me just out of nowhere felt like I want to now be stronger physically. And I wanted to match how my mind was feeling with my body and started going to a gym. I thought, okay, let's just go to a gym. And when I was there and I saw all the machines, I thought, oh my gosh, I just wanted to do all of it. And so I just started going. I budgeted for a babysitter just so I can go to the gym. I was finally doing something for myself and just the act initially of doing something for myself and improving myself and just feeling my muscles move and contract felt amazing. I had no training or anything like that. When I joined the gym, I got some three, three sessions. I used those and had a little bit of guidance. But then just went like it was a playground, went from one machine to another. Felt amazing and Dorphan rush every time. And then the gym's closed because of COVID. Oh, wow. And when, yeah, and so it was like the thing that really helped me wasn't there anymore. And when it was COVID here and I'm in Melbourne, Australia and we had the longest lockdown ever. The gyms were closed for over a year. It just had got some dumbbells and resistance bands at home and just did a few things. And when I was in that lockdown, I was doubling in some online dating. I met a wonderful man who's now my partner and he, when he was younger, like in his 20s, competed and was just watching me virtually, literally virtually. And as I was saying, oh, look, training the dumbbells. I said, look like you build muscle quickly. I said, what are you talking about? I just heard this little baby biceps. And he's asked me, have you ever thought about competing enough? I said, I'm not going to compete. I'm not going to put myself on a stage in a bikini. That's outrageous. I was such an introverted sort of reserved person. I could never imagine doing anything like that. I planted a seed and that seed started to grow over time. And I also started, found myself thinking, well, maybe I should do that. Maybe I should do something I would never, ever do. Go completely out of my comfort zone and challenge myself. I think that would actually, and he started getting me excited. So I, during that COVID lockdown, I started looking up coaches. And I wanted to someone that I could see face-to-face, because I really had no experience in training. I needed someone to guide me, so I'd injure myself. So I, yes, I found, I found somebody. And as soon as the gym's reopened, I met with them. And I've been with this coach ever since. So it's been three and a half years that I've been with her. And yes, I just said, I want to compete. I just, as nerve-wracking as it was to say it. And just said, okay. And that's what we're going to do. And just guided me through it. It's very hard, very challenging. But once I was on that stage, as nerve-wracking as it was also just exhilarating, it was like this huge achievement of getting to that stage literally and figuratively. And just, yeah, it felt amazing. I met amazing paper throughout. The camaraderie was incredible. And I've just become addicted, really. And I absolutely love it. Yeah, it's self-continued since then. Okay, you're a psychologist. And so you said the toughest thing for most people is mental. So what was it also mentally hard for you or was the physical aspect? Because you can heal yourself or cure yourself. First of all, we're all human. So of course, I'm going to struggle and I did struggle. And I can't heal myself, I can tell you that. My wife's a doctor and she makes the worst patient, so I understand. Yeah, there you go, you understand me. Yeah, so look. And of course, for me, I said, you have realistic expectations. So you know what you're going to go through. I didn't really know what to expect. I read a bit about it. I gradually start following some competitors online just to see what they do. What to expect, obviously, my coach is telling me. But I just initially just sought a lot of assurance from her. Am I on track? Is this what's meant to happen? And that was incredibly helpful. She said, oh, no, this is totally normal. What you're going through is totally normal. It's all good. And we were both learning for that first prep. Because again, like I said, you don't know how your body is going to respond. It could be even gut issues that come up. You've got to see what foods work for you. So yeah, so for me, probably initially it was more physical challenges because I wasn't used to training like that. I didn't have a problem with the discipline part. I could be quite organized and I actually liked that. I could have some sense of control. I didn't have to think about what I'm going to age. I just had a plan and I prepped it. That made it really easy. But the training was very challenging. I mean, challenge your body in ways you never have, especially if you've never been a really athletic, sporty person before. And yeah, later on, it was other things like the fatigue was kicking in and other stuff with three children. So this is the thing is that there's a lot more to my life than just this. I love this. This is a passion. It's super, super important to me, but it's not the only thing. And I think you'd find that with a lot of people. So that's where some of the mindset and the mental issues can come up because you're trying to juggle that with other aspects of your life. Like we spoke a lot about partner. There's children for some people as well. And maybe there's work of career. There's other goals. I think a lot of people try and balance everything. But again, we have to be realistic, right? At the latest stages of prep is it's getting closer to competition. It's not going to be that balanced. And that's okay. You accept that, okay, at this time, I need to dedicate a bit less time to these other things and more time to the prep. They're the sorts of things I had to learn to never get and understand as I was doing it myself. That's awesome. When was the last time you stepped on stage? About five weeks ago. Oh, wow. Reset. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah, I was about to look at my watch and my hair. What's the date? Yeah, it was May, early May. You spoke about family and obviously your partner has competed in the past. How are your children and without getting too much into it? But how are they into seeing mom on stage and stuff like that? One of the reasons that I also wanted to embark on this journey was actually because of my children. So I've got three girls. And it was really important for me for them to say that a woman can be strong, emotionally and physically, and I can protect them. And, you know, as clearly as it sounds, but the women can do anything. So I wanted to show them that I can be their mom and I can have my career and I can still look after myself. And looking after myself was not something that I had done very well before. And especially as I was dealing with separation and divorce, my energy went towards them and my work. I didn't have much left for myself. So I'm constantly communicating with them why I'm doing what I'm doing. And as I would be getting tired and maybe irritable, I would say, girls, excuse me, I'm just, I'm tired and I'm a little bit cranky just because I don't have a lot of food at the moment. But is there something I want to do? And then they're fully like part of the process with me. They saw my bikini when I get it. They constantly see me taking these pictures for my coach. And so they know the process, but now they're very, they're very supportive. It's like just part of like our life. So they they're totally on board. That's awesome. I have three girls myself. They're a lot younger probably because I'm an old father. I have a three year old Mercy and I'm 51. But no, thank you for sharing that because, you know, as a man, I always thought I was going to have a son, right? But life happens. And so I wanted daughters. I didn't know I was going to get three. And I want them to understand that they don't need to be men dependent, that they could be independent, that they can do things for themselves. And so my wife is that way. She's a doctor. And so we teach them to be strong, to be to think from cause to effect. And so I'm glad you're setting that example for your daughters as well. So what does the future hold for you? Are you done a recent competition? Are you going to continue to compete? What else do you have in store that you want to challenge yourself with? As long as my body can carry me, I'm not going to stop competing. So I'm now I've entered a building phase, you're training really super hard. And you know, got my strength back now so I can build more muscle. So yeah, we'll compete again. So probably next year is the aim. So that's from that perspective. And otherwise I'm yeah, I'm working on building my business now more towards working with with bodybuilders because that's my passion. And also, like I said, there's quite a gap in that for a lot of people need that support. So I'm gradually moving from the general clinical psychology field of, you know, anxiety and depression, the general population to more the mental health issues or mindset issues that what a builder struggle with. Oh, wow. Let people know where they can find you. We see your Instagram handle there, but what's the best way to contact you? Oh, thank you for asking. So yeah, look, they can send me a quick DM, but on Instagram, but otherwise I've got my website that you're not seen. So the bodybuildingpsychologist.com and there's a link there to book a time with me or to send me an email to ask you from the right person for them. You can also download from there or Instagram my free checklist to prepare mentally for a competition and see if you pick up anything from there that you think, oh, I don't think that I've got this. Maybe I need help with this particular part of it. So yeah, that will be the way. Okay, awesome. I have one last question. Jody, do you have anything? Now go for it. Okay, if we talk about there's going to be hunger. How low do you get on the calories? Let's say two weeks prior to getting on stage. Okay, that is really such an individual question. So I can't really answer it as like a general question. Yeah, so it really depends like because you can't go too low, because obviously you need your energy and also otherwise if you keep going low, you're going to end up looking very flat and you need your muscles to look full. Yeah, there's not the magic number. It's really, it becomes very scientific at that point where your coach kind of monitors how your body's looking, your coach monitors how you're going at different stages. And for me, there was a point where you increase the calories for a couple of days, then you reduce them and you alternate that over a week and see how your body's responding. Yeah, that's not really a magic number. And what about the day of the stage? Do you consume? Do you, what do you do the day of? The day of can actually be quite fun because you can eat. You want to be looking depleted, you actually want to fill up your muscles. And so you'll have, whatever you would normally have for breakfast usually. And then what time you're on stage, your coach monitors you and you can start to have some sugar. So you have some jelly snakes or things like that. I was just waiting for the instructions, "Why can't I have my jelly snacks?" You feel like a kid literally and it's quite, it's quite extreme actually being backstage and compared to this eating crisps and lollies and different things like that. Because you need a bit of that salt and you need sugar to fill you up right before you go on stage. Awesome, awesome. Thank you very much. This has been a pleasure and an honor. I didn't know quite sure that you were down in Melbourne, Australia. So I know it's probably pretty there or, oh, I don't know, that it's a 15-hour difference. Thank you very much as well, I'm trying to say. Thank you so much. I mean, it was so much fun. Awesome, awesome. There you heard the body building psychologist. You can see her Instagram there if you want to connect with her. Shoot her DM as she said and she'll get right back to you. Good luck once in future competitions and thank you for being on the show today. Thank you.
