you have a TV? No. I just like to read the TV guide. Read the TV guide. Don't need a TV. Hello, everybody. Welcome to TV guidance counselor. This is episode 101 of the show very special Friday edition of TV guidance counselor. If you are tuning in for the first time because you are a fan of either of my guests this week, Mr. Ben Wiesel of the band screeching Weasel or Mr. Joe Queer of the band the Queers. Welcome. The show is a podcast I've been doing for over 100 episodes. Now, to be fair, almost two years. I am a stand-up comedian from Boston, Massachusetts. I also used to be in a punk rock band called 30 seconds over Tokyo in the 1990s here in Boston and I am a huge fan of the bands that both of my guests are in this week. The premise of the show is that I pretty much own every edition of TV guide. Someone picks an old edition and we kind of just go through it and talk about what they watched on TV. Normally my guests are usually friends, comedians, actors, people who are on these shows, but I am trying to also expand that to people from bands and people I know from the music world just to get some different sorts of perspectives which is always kind of fun. Ben and Joe were in town recently because they were doing a show with the Mr. T experience and hopefully Dr. Frank will be a guest in the future. He also is a great writer. So pick up some of his books, but I was lucky enough to grab some of their time and talk to them. Really enjoyed talking to Ben. He was up first here, so why don't you sit back relax and listen to this week's episode of TV guidance counselor with my first guest, Mr. Ben Wiesel. Mr. Ben Wiesel, thank you so much for doing this Ben. Thank you. I'm sorry it's so noisy. Hopefully the mic isn't picking up our sound check. It's quite all right. It's a nice little atmosphere. We are in the green, the literal green room here before your Boston show. That's great. And you picked an edition from 1979, a kind of guest mid-70s to early 80s would have been your kind of sweet spot. That's right. And the first thing that you gravitated towards was the two hour power block of Fantasy Island and Love Boat. Right. Was that something you watched every week at that HCO? Yeah, like 2009. I was 11 in '79. Okay. Yeah. So that was, yeah, I mean, unless we were doing a sleepover at somebody's house or something, yeah, we watched that every week, or I did at least. Would you watch that with your parents at all, or would you just kind of... I don't remember, I think. It's a very adult show. Yeah. Kids in my generation were kind of left to be raised by the TV to a certain extent, which is no reflection on my parents' parenting skills, but it wasn't the big deal. Yeah, it wasn't the big deal it is now that you let the kids sit in front of the TV for four hours. And it probably wasn't a big deal because we really, you know, the flip side of that is that we were outside so much. Right. And we, you know, completely unsupervised. I mean, if, you know, the way I grew up, all those parents today would be in jail. Yeah. And the kids would be taken away from them because we just, you know, in the summertime, we would be out after breakfast till lunch and out after lunch till dinner. Yeah. Like, as long as you're home till five, I don't care what you do at the meeting time. Right. Right. Right. And, you know, nothing all that bad happened to anybody, I don't think. No. No. There was no instances of razor blades and apples recorded. There were, despite the urban legends and every town of clowns with vans very rarely. Yeah. They actually exist. But, you know, the other side of it is we did a lot of crazy stupid stuff that I wouldn't want my kids doing now. So, you know, but you, what they don't know doesn't hurt them. So kids may do those, but they wouldn't know about it. So, but the thing I asked about Love Boat and Fanny Salons, there were such weird adult shows, but everyone I know that sort of in our general age bracket watched them. Yeah. And the mixture of tones was so weird. So like they would have at least three stories on Love Boat. One would be purely comedic. One would be about a people's marriage who was saved by having an affair. Right. And one would be like somewhat scary sometimes. Yeah. There was one that I specifically remember where I don't know why this was, but there was a cabin filled with man-eating Doberman pinchers as you transport on a ship. Sure. And a guy got trapped in the bathroom. And the whole episode he was trying, it was like Kujio on Love Boat with Doberman pinchers. Well, you know, there was that thing in the 1970s where for a period of about three or four years, you had to have Dobermans in everything. Yeah. You didn't have to have a reason. Like Dobermans were the scariest things ever. There was the great Doberman panic of the 70s and they became a very popular dog. And so they were, they were inserted into, you know, there's at least one of not two episodes of Colombo where a Doberman is in. And there were the Doberman movies, which I think were mostly made for TV. Yeah. But you had those Daring Dobermans and, you know, very, very weird. It's like, it's like Pitbulls didn't exist until the late 80s. Yeah. They, they were the new Doberman pinchers. Yeah. Or even like the, the Roger Coleman punk rock movie, Suburbia. At the beginning of that movie, the first scene is like a child being eaten to death by roaming bands of wild Dobermans in Los Angeles. I didn't, I didn't know that. You know, I've never seen that movie. You're not missing a ton. Interesting stuff in there. I always, I always figured that I was never a big fan of that kind of Orange County L.A. punk. Well, I liked a lot of the L.A. punk, but I didn't, I just, it's weird because you would think that I would have watched that movie. But when I was a teenager, I was just like, it seemed not interesting. Yeah. Didn't you, you're a fan of, I seem to remember being a fan of class of 1984. Yeah. Yeah. Teenage head. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think class of 1984 is actually a great, um, a really classic exploitation film. I mean, it, it, I haven't seen it in a long time now, but I liked it at the time because yeah, teenage head, the Canadian band performs in it. Also, there's a really good Alice Cooper song from his, um, what he called his punk period. It was, it was really this kind of new wave thing where he cut his hair and he claims now that he was so such a raging alcoholic because this was after, I think it was 1978 when he did the From the Inside album after he went into a cyborg for alcoholism. Yeah, yeah. And then he relapsed. And so he claims that he doesn't remember making those albums. I, my gut tells me, and I, you know, Alice Cooper was my hero. So I don't want to call the man a liar, but my gut tells me that he's embarrassed about those albums, but I don't think he should be. Those were really good records. It's good stuff. It's better than the man behind the mask from, uh, Friday the 13th part six, which is when he claims to come out of his fog. That's right. That's right. That's right. I would agree with that. And, uh, um, I loved the special forces album, which is probably the least known of those three albums. There were actually four, but the fourth one, which I think was called Dada, was, um, I think more of a rock album, whereas, whereas Zipper Ketch's Skin, which featured the song, um, I think it was called We Are the Future. Yeah, that was really fascinating. That was the one that, uh, they had the kid actually played on the piano, um, Ben Patton. That's right. Cause he was, he was this terrible, violent, raping thug who also happened to be a, uh, a yard level piano genius. Exactly. Well, you gotta balance it. It was kind of like, yeah, I think that's where they got the idea for the, um, the Robin Williams movie with, uh, with how do you like them apples? I can't remember the name. Oh, good. Well, hunting. Good. Well, hunting here in Boston. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. It was from 1984. Yeah, they got that idea. So, uh, that movie has a lot of weird TV connections as you have, Perry King is the main guy, and it was on Simon and Simon, and you have a van Patton of the van Patton's, the glorious van Patton's. And it's Michael J. Fox's first movie. Sure. You get stabbed. He gets stabbed in the stomach. Yeah. And he's kind of fat. He's a little chubby. Yeah. He still has his Canadian weather protection on. Yeah, that's right. Good time. Well, yeah. And, you know, the van Patton's, I mean, there were, I watched a lot of TV when I was a kid, but, um, you know, I would occasionally watch shows that never connected with me and still don't. Like, I still don't get eight is enough. No. I don't get what it was like, I understand theoretically what it was about, that it was this big family and, and this and that, but they did not seem to me since they didn't look alike. They didn't seem to me to be really related. I kept expecting like a couple of them to pair off and start dating. You know, I just didn't get that. It was more like an orphanage or something. Yeah. It didn't make. I always confused it when I was very little with the Partridge family. I think just because I thought Dick Van Patton looked like Ruben Kincaid, I wasn't exactly sure. And they would air them and rerun sort of in the same block. Yeah. That's what kind of checking it out. But eight is enough. I'd just be like, why aren't they singing? Yeah. It's like someone cut out all this singing from the Partridge family. Yeah. Well, the Partridge family was another one that I never connected with. I mean, I was kind of the, you know, to me, you were, you either liked the Brady Bunch or the Partridge family, but the Partridge family, again, it seemed so unrealistic to me. Yeah. It's, it just didn't, it didn't make sense to me. I didn't know where the father was. I didn't know, you know, Ruben Kincaid seemed like a terrible, ineffectual manager. Yeah. It, I didn't understand why they didn't fire him. And so I didn't really get, get the Partridge family. But, and then the other one, which I guess was just an eight is enough ripoff, which probably would have been around this time in the late 70s, was family with Kristi McNichol. Yeah. She was in that, right? Yeah. She was in that. And that was just kind of a carbon copy of eight is enough, wasn't it? It was to agree. It was, it was more dramatic. And then they tended to focus on the parent story a little bit more than eight is enough. But it was very, very similar. Yeah. I mean, I just, it was one of those that just did not hold my attention at that age. And it's funny because when I got older, I got into, you know, fairly deep into its run. So I had to go back and watch the early episodes when it was good, because it got really bad. But I got into, and now I can't remember the name, but it's the one the guy was, the guy was outed recently as a child molester. Oh, a party, not party of five. No. He's a Christian minister. Yes. It was, it was. Jessica Biel. Yeah. Jessica Biel, it's part not again, not party of five. It's like one of my favorite shows, and I can't remember the name of it. Not one free hill. It was right, right around. CW show. Yeah. But anyway, we'll remember it. But that was one that had that same theory. It theory is eight is enough, where it's this big family. And, and, you know, as an adult watching that type of show, I found it very entertaining. But I mean, I found it entertaining in large part because it was so bad. Yeah. And I love the bad, weird things about it, which is not to say that I was necessarily totally watching it ironically, because I also appreciated that it had, you know, I appreciated that in, in the 21st century, you could have a show that really did kind of have a good heart. Yeah. It was a sincere show that kind of makes it inherently sort of bad in a lot of ways. Right. But it also makes it very, very genuinely charming. Yeah. And, and kind of heartwarming. And, but it started to go wrong when, when the parents just became obsessed with their children's love lives and like trying to, like trying to energize, it's like no parent cares that much about, you know, trying to help his, her, you know, his teenage daughter, you know, find the right boyfriend. Yeah. It's, it's a little creepy if they did. Yeah. I think there probably are some, but I wouldn't want to see a television show about them. So, but that to me was, was something that came out of the eight is enough type of TV show. And I think that in TV, there do tend to be these cycles. There are types of shows that keep returning. That to some degree is what made the loveboat and fantasy island unique because I don't think they're doing anything that from my recollection is, has been repeated. Well, the interesting thing, so the 70s and the 90s were sort of the parallel decades, which makes sense where you have, that's when the show that we can't remember. That's not one tree hill, right? Was on and family was on and seventh heaven. Seventh heaven. And they brought the loveboat and fantasy island back in the late 90s. They had a new loveboat and a new fantasy. I completely missed that. Yeah. Everyone else did too. It did not last long Malcolm McDowell was the lead on the new fantasy island. Oh man, I do vaguely remember that was his version of tattoo. And it didn't work. And I think there was like a weird cynicism maybe bubbling up that people weren't having it. But also, I think people weren't as impressed by like the all star parade of the 90s. Like in the 70s, you know, if you tuned in, it was basically a variety show. That's right. And you never knew what star you're gonna get, a contemporary or like it might be Phil Silvers is in this episode. It might be, it might be Jack Cassidy and probably was like twice a season because Jack Cassidy did everything. And Charo. So yeah, exactly. So yeah, I mean, there was, you're right, there's no reason, especially with the loveboat, there's no reason why a kid would watch that. And I think it was just the way they programmed it in that block. It's like you're sitting there and and but fantasy island was interesting to me because there was a dark undertone to it. There was this tiniest bit of menace in Mr. Rourke. Like what was this guy up to? They never explained. Why? Where does he come from? What is he doing? Yeah, I don't know what his end game was. And I don't really know what his relationship with tattoo is. It was kind of like this oompa-loompa thing. Like you would think he rescued him from somewhere. Yeah, it was like a weird Dr. Moreau thing too, where I was like, did he make him from some sort of animal? Is this his familiar? Is he the devil? Like he never really knew. Yeah. And there would there would be those moments where he would get this disturbing look in his eye. And you sense that he really enjoyed in a not very nice way playing around with the lives of these guests on this island. This is not fun to see. Yeah. Like no. Because the moral, as I recall it, and I made me remembering wrong, but the moral of every single fantasy island story was be careful what you wish for. Yeah, absolutely. And so you always found out that all these things you think you wanted, you really are better off not having. And yeah, there would be things coming up. And I don't think it was the love boat. I think it was fantasy island where there was an episode where a woman was a hooker and article. Yeah, I don't remember the plot line or anything. I just remember sitting there puzzling for 20 minutes, not understanding what a hooker is. And so all the conversations that came up about this woman, and I think she wanted to change her life or something, I just couldn't puzzle it out. To me, it was synonymous with Swinger. But the problem is I didn't know what a Swinger was either. So to me, it was somebody, it was just somebody who was good looking and wanted to have sex a lot. They liked a party. Yeah, which is a weird thing to even present. I mean, again, very 70s. And sort of that message of be careful what you wish for to have that presented on a weekly show in the 70s is a very alien idea. I think people watching TV now and probably one of the reasons why I finished the 90s didn't work because people don't want morals on television now. Or and I think that's kind of shifted in the last 20 years, where it's just basically wish fulfillment. And they don't want that sort of lesson. Right. They don't want to feel bad after going, maybe I don't want to be rich. Right. Or just sort of feel like the, because there was a feeling of a lack of a satisfying conclusion with all that, at least for a kid, where, you know, to me, it didn't make me, it didn't teach me anything. Like it didn't make me change my mind about wanting to be a millionaire or whatever. The world's greatest escape artist. Yeah, to my mind, it's just like these people were stupid, they were going about it all wrong. It's like it's like that great thing where, you know, the, you know, classic thing where you go and wish for, you know, this or that or the other thing, but your wish isn't specific enough. So something terrible happens to you, you know, like you're like the monkey's paw kind of thing. And so, you know, even at that age, I kind of felt like, Oh, you just got to be smart. I'd be really specific and make sure now, find the little along with this wish. I want you to understand. Here's what I don't mean. Yes. Here's what can happen. Here's a disclaimer that goes along with this, which I think not everybody watched in that way. I would do the same thing too. I was like, no, no, no, there's a way to get around. That's right. That's right. Very, very interesting split between people, I think, as you have the people who are just like, I learned a lesson that people are like, no, no, no, my lesson is be smart about these things. That's right. You got to litigate that thing. And if it gets out of control, but you really just set it down in black and white before you get going to make sure that, you know, if you say, I want 100 bucks, you're not going to give me a bunch of deer with antlers, you know, that kind of thing, not that I would wish for 100 bucks, but at least a thousand. But yeah, so that that block, I mean, that was Saturday night to me. And like I said, I think my folks watched with us sometimes, I think my sister at that time in 79 would have been 13. So she's going on 14. So she was, she was probably, she might have been watching it, but she was probably like at a friend's house or because I don't remember her being around. And my little sister was too young. So my memories of that are watching it alone. But, you know, that's, have you watched? Did you watch a lot of sitcoms or things? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I loved like my sister, I'm looking through this and you've got Little House on the Prairie. My sister loved that. Yeah. But I couldn't, I just like it. Yeah, I couldn't, I don't think I've ever seen an entire episode of it. MASH, you know, I'd watch MASH, but even when I was watching MASH, I kind of knew it was bad. But those kinds of things, okay, like WKRP, that was the cool show. Yeah. Because it was about rock and roll. Right. And you were always drawn to these musicals at the time. Well, we were, yeah, and we were talking about this on the way up today. We had a long conversation about the idea that that in the 70s, especially, it was an attitude that started probably when rock and roll started, but there was still kind of a pop connection there. But in the late 60s and the 70s, in the time when I grew up, if you were a rock fan, that meant something very different than it means now, like the most popular rock bands in the world at the time, like the Rolling Stones and the Who and bands like that, if you were, even if you were a fan of those massively popular bands, it was still somewhat counter-cultural. Yeah, if you showed up in a mall with a Who shared on, people would kind of look a little like, "Oh, this person's a rock person." It would be like walking around in the 80s, in the early 80s with a Mohawk, or walking around in the early 90s with tattoos all up and down your arms. It's nothing now, but back then, being a rock fan, and especially if you look around the year 79, when there was the disco sucks campaign. Like in the culture war. Right. And a lot of that, I don't know if it started there, but a lot of that was almost headquartered in Chicago with Steve Dahl. He wasn't really a disc jockey. He was Howard Stern before Howard Stern made a name for himself. In fact, years later, Howard Stern's producer admitted that Stern had him tape Steve Dahl's show in Chicago. Yeah, so he was copying his stuff, but it was that idea of completely ignoring the rules of radio where you talked in the cheesy radio voice. We would have bothered to zip it down. Yeah, and not only ignore it, but make fun of it. Yeah. And acknowledge it and comment. Yeah, and they would go on and do and talk for hours about seemingly just in a completely off the cuff way. It seemed that, you know, everything was extemporaneous, was not planned, totally ad-libbed, and really about boring everyday stuff, but it was very entertaining. Well, he, when he very first started out, he got fired by a radio station because they were moving to disco. Right. And so he started this big disco sucks campaign. And the big event there was at Comisky Park where Bill Vek, I guess was it Bill Vek or Bill Vek's son? They burned. Well, they brought in a bunch of fans. They had disco demolition night. They brought in a bunch of disco records and blew them up in center field. They ended up at the White Sox ended up having to forfeit the game because the fans, the crazy rock fans rushed onto the field. But that kind of, like, I can remember, it was dangerous. Yeah, I can remember being 12 years old and going to the roller rink. And there were the disco kids on one side and the rockers on the other. And we hated each other. Yeah. And you, you know, like a rumble could have broken up. You know, fights are breaking out. I would love to see that kind of rumble. The disco kids. Did you see freaks and geeks at all when it was on the early 2000s? I saw it after, I saw it on Netflix years later. Yeah. Because that that's immediately what I posted. Yeah, it absolutely captures that that time frame. Yeah, perfectly. And it's Detroit, but still that kind of Midwestern city, uh, disco versus rocks. It was, it was really it mattered. It was really important. And if you owned what we called in those days concert shirts, just the black, thin, cheap shirts you would get, yeah, you know, um, then and you had long hair. I mean, those were your, your badges. And so a show like WKRP and Cincinnati, which I'm sure would seem very quaint viewed today, was not only, it was an excellent sitcom. I mean, it was a really almost perfect example of how a sitcom should work. Yeah, it's a quintessential workplace sitcom. Yeah. And, and really it falls right in line with going, you know, on that continuum of Mary Tyler Moore and, and going through, uh, going through to what I think was probably the last great one, because I hate the office. And the last great one to me was news radio. I 100% agree. That's probably one of my top five 96 comes totally underrated. Yeah. Great show. And, uh, my, uh, my brother-in-law was one of the writers on that show, which I, I did not know my wife at that time. So I'm not saying this because I knew that, but that was my favorite show in the 90s. And, uh, and it was because it was in that tradition. Yeah. And it hit all, all the points. I mean, the key to doing anything, it's the same with music. The key to doing anything really good and creating something unique and original is not to try to do something that's never been done before, but to hit those points while putting your own spin on it. Right. You know, that combination of the familiar and the, and the new. And so, um, yeah, really, but KRP, in addition to all that, seemed at the time, which it would not viewed today to younger people, but it seemed at the time to be almost a rebellious show in and of itself. One of the things that it did that I think was relatively rare at the time was it had a black character, a black main character, who, who, yeah, who was not, as I recall, like any other character on TV, like they did do like any other black character. I mean, they did do the kind of, he's the cool black guy, you know, like the cool, smooth talking black guy. His persona on the air was that. Yeah. But then he would be a real guy off the track. Yeah. Yeah. This is an act, man. Venus 5. That's right. And that was interesting. It was interesting. It was very different from, and I love stuff like The Jeffersons. I mean, that was a great show and, and I loved a lot of the, all the Norman Lear. Yeah. A lot of the black centered shows of the 70s were really, I even liked a lot of good times, but I mean, there were a lot of weaknesses in that show. Yeah. I mean, until John Amos left. Yeah. Then it got, it got, it became a little too JJ-centric at that point. And, and that's a show that started as a show about blue collar, black family, and it was kind of an issues show. Right. And then once it became the JJ show, it got silly. Like, well, and it was, you know, and it was also, for me growing up in the suburbs of Chicago, good times was set in Chicago. And if I recall correctly, I believe it was set, I may be wrong about that. It was either set in the Cabrini Green project or the Robert Taylor home. I think it was Cabrini, Cabrini Green, because I always associate it with Candyman. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense then. Yeah. So, and, you know, growing up in the suburbs of Chicago, I mean, that's a really a different, a very different world. When I hear people talk today about race, younger people, on kind of both sides of the equation, you've got on the one hand the people who say, well, you know, we're past all this and race doesn't really matter and racism doesn't exist the way it did. And, you know, why can't we just, of course, it's always white people who say this, why can't we just get over it? Yeah, get over it, exactly. And then on the other hand, there are people who see racist kind of hiding in every corner. But the conversation, I hate to use that word, but the conversation that we were having culturally about race in the 70s was a lot different. Oh, absolutely. And if you have seen that and kind of weren't old enough to be around at the height of the civil rights movement, but kind of saw that the promise of that in terms of race relations, that the promise of that was not remotely fulfilled, that's a lot of what we saw in the 70s. What we saw in the 70s, really, and what I grew up in and what I think probably warped me in a way and made me into a punk rock musician, was all the promise of this of the kind of cultural revolution of the 60s, just turning into horrible excess and self centeredness and and really complete lack of concern for for one's fellow man, which then in the 80s, gelled and solidified into this really horrible, greedy corporate mentality that even seeped into rock and roll. So when we're talking about it with Reaganism, but Reaganism was really just kind of the the touch point, I guess, or touchstone for that, because it that mentality infiltrated every aspect of society. So rock music became we went from, you know, won't get fooled again and stuff like that to we built this city on rock and roll, which was the most soulless, just calculated, evil, perversion of rock music. And that one's almost more egregious because that band was formed from people from the Jefferson airplane, who were kind of doing something interesting 15 years before that. Right. And it just kind of, to me, that was the white flag that just said, we just give up, just give us the money. Now, I'm speaking from the perspective of being the age I was then, I'm not saying that's necessarily how I feel about it now. It seemed like that while you're in it. It seemed like that. And it seemed like, boy, my parents' generation were just so, so completely full of it. And so to me, punk rock was was kind of a reaction against that. But punk rock was also reaction off of over and to what rock music can become. Yeah, because rock music was, yeah, rock music was completely, the excess was out of control. It seemed to be all about the money. It didn't seem to be about the spirit that you had when you were, when I was even 11 and 12 years old, having long hair and wearing jeans and wearing a Judas Priest shirt or a Rolling Stones shirt or something, that was a signal to other people. Yeah. And you, you, I mean, I think it's hard for younger people to understand that or even believe that. But it really was at that time. Oh, yeah. I mean, when I was growing up in the, in the early and mid '80s, you know, I was looking up to be here in Boston. So we had great college radio and record stores and I could pick up a Max American role once I knew what it was and that kind of stuff. But the only way I could get that sort of thing was in the fringe hours of television and as much as people bashed MTV, which did for good and bad for music. That was where I discovered a lot of this stuff in their late night hours that I was like, what is this? Or, you know, they're showing the young ones and I see the damned on it or even the old monkey's reruns. Well, I used to always say when I was in, in my mid teens, I was living in the middle of nowhere in Maine and we would go down to the main mall in Portland every once in a while. That's where I got all my first punk rock. So you'd have these people going, Oh, you know, punk rock sold, sold in shopping malls. Now that's terrible. It's like, that's where I was able to buy it. Our kids can get it. They don't live in these major cities. So it makes the world smaller. And I don't, yeah. And I don't, I mean, you know, the, the, the culture of rock changed so much that to me punk rock was the, was the only answer to that. Like it was so over the top. It was funny. It was, it was smart at its best. Quite a lot of it was dumb, obviously, but at its best, it was funny. It was smart. It was very kind of wickedly incisive. And to me, that, that was the only real rock and roll that was left that was being made. And, and so yeah, I mean, I, you know, it's just, it's inconceivable to me in a way that society was the way it was when I was a kid and, and that, that you could watch a show, like a kid could watch a show produced in Hollywood, like WKRP in Cincinnati and feel some kind of sense of, yeah, this is speaking and, and you know what, maybe that's the case now with a show like the Big Bang Theory. I mean, maybe, because to me, that is not, like, it started happening before that show. But to me, that show almost crystallized this notion of the, the, the nerds are in charge. Yeah, like making, making nerd them cool. Yeah, but then there's a lot of, there's a huge backlash for people who call it like nerd face, where it's almost like people can slumb by tuning in to watch how these people live kind of that. Oh, I didn't know that scene one episode. And I was like, oh, you know that. I love the Big Bang Theory. It's actually, I, I believe I've seen every single episode they've ever made. I love it. And I, I was totally resistant to it because I would see like two minutes of it. I mean, this is the dumbest thing ever. Right. The reason I love it is because it's the only sitcom I'm aware of on the air right now that actually more or less adheres to the classic sitcom conventions. It's a three-camera sitcom. Yeah. And it's, it's really, it's good in that way, you know, obviously there's some stuff on it that's not great or that's not funny, but it does what it's supposed to do. And it does it really well. And it hasn't yet remarkably like gotten worse. And it's been on for 10 years or so. Something like that. Yeah. It's, it's odd how the three-camera sitcom format in the 90s shifted to being strictly for children. So if you look now, all those shows are on Nickelodeon Disney. And it is weird that a show like Big Bang Theory is so popular in that classic three-camera format because everything now is single-camera and especially that, that mockumentary style, which is, I think in 20 years, the way that teenagers have disdain for three-camera sitcoms now, if you showed them something we grew up with, just stupid. Right. They will think that about the elementary. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I mean, that's not, that graded on me from the very beginning. And, you know, I mean, when I was, you know, when I was young, my parents, older people, was, oh, you know, things were simpler when we were young. And, and I'm sure they were. And, and when I was young, you know, we didn't have cable TV till I was, I don't know, in my teens. And we didn't have a VCR till I was probably, you know, moving out of the house, I think, maybe. And, so, you know, and, and we're way past VCRs now, even. So, it was a really different thing. And you had to, just like it was with records, you had to give a show a chance. Yeah. Or at least if you liked TV you had to. So, you couldn't just, I mean, I can flip through just literally hundreds of stuff now on the hundreds of things on my TV now. And I don't feel like TV is that much better than it was in terms of, in terms of giving me choices. Yeah. Because I can see, you could pull up anything you could possibly want to watch at any time on your phone right now. That's right. But if I want to see, if I'm not into show where a celebrity is like, you know, rehabbing houses or something, then I'm not gonna want to watch the other 17 shows that are the same thing. Or if I want to watch a dumb cooking contest show, I've got way too many choices for it. So, it all becomes this, this big mass of one thing. So, it's like, okay, here's all these shows that fall into this category. So, you might have 25 different channels offering that. But to me, it's all kind of one channel. It's so narrow, casted. You could have a whole channel that's just like video wallpaper, you know? Right down to like, I like shows about murders. And you got a whole day, about 24 hours of it. So, you know, you go back to the 70s. And one of the things is, I mean, quite a lot of it was not very well acted. It was almost always very badly written. It wasn't directed with much skill, quite a lot of it. In all those areas, TV is so much better now. There's no question. It's taken more seriously. It's better. Yeah. You could, if you're a serious film actor, there is no shame whatsoever in working in TV. There's no difference now. That's right. And there was, I mean, if you remember when the guy left NYPD Blue, and he was gonna do have a film career, which did not work out for him, but this was like a major thing. Oh, yeah. Is he gonna screw himself over, which he did. But that sort of conundrum no longer exists. No, they were, it was a big deal if you were going to jump ship from TV to movies, like Shelley Long. Yeah, that's right. Huge star. And it bombed and then she never really bounced back. Or like Bruce Willis, people were like, wow, he made it. It was almost like crossing over from adult films or something. He made it into the mainstream world of television. And I'm not exactly sure why that was other than probably a lot of prejudice about TV and about TV actors. It was looked down on and rightfully so in some ways. But as a medium, there was never anything wrong with it. No, I mean, I think that I always attribute that to the phenomenon made for TV movies as well, to the point where they were like, that's a TV movie. It's different. That's right. And so you could be a TV movie actor. But like in the issue we were looking at there, Salem's lot aired. That's right. That's right. And that is an absolutely amazing, terrifying, maybe one of the best even king adaptions there was. Is that with David Sol? David Sol. That's right. And I'm Lance Kerwin from James 15. Yeah. And now James at 15 is interesting too. That was a little bit, that was one of those shows that was, I wasn't really old enough for that one. And then I think when they came back the next season, they changed the title to James at 16. Interesting. It was mid-season, they changed it. He'd lost his virginity in an episode to a Swedish exchange student on his birthday. And the next week's episode was now James at 16. Because he had grown up a little bit. He'd grown up a little bit. Yeah. But that was insanely controversial at the time. Yeah. I barely remember that because like I said to me, that was 15 seemed like, you know, a century away from how old I was. I mean, that was like practically an adult. So, but yeah, I mean, there wasn't that, there was all that kind of bias against television and everything. But it's a funny thing because now that we have all these choices, I'll sit there with my wife and we're just going, do, do, do, do, do, just flipping through and there's nothing to watch, even though we've got these, you know, when I was a kid, I mean, I would have just gone bananas to have that kind of choice. Oh yeah. And you would sit through things you hated, just to do like something I like, like, come on, like, you know, you were, you were coming of age in the Golden Age of the Variety Show, which I'm sure you would watch as a rock fan to be like, maybe kiss, we'll show up on this Paul and Halloween special. I'm so tired, but I want to stay up till midnight and watch, you know, Don Kirschner's rock concert and what was in the midnight special was the other one. Yeah. And 90% or more of what was on there was stuff that I had no interest in seeing, but yeah, you're exactly right. You would go, maybe there'll be a good band on, you know, if Alice Cooper shows up on the Muppet Show, and because I hated the Muppet Show, but if Alice Cooper shows up on the Muppet Show, then it's worth, it's all worthwhile. Didn't they air welcome to my nightmare as a TV special? They did. And, um, I think you can actually still buy that on DVD. Yeah. I think it was actually released. That's a commentary by Alice Cooper, but that aired on network television as a television, it's a two hour rock concert with the headings and, you know, yeah, I mean, you really, well, he, you know, Alice Cooper was always, uh, just an absolute master showman. And it was that perfect marriage of a guy who knew what he was good at, who never tried to do things that he wasn't good at, which, which is something that just ruins a lot of rock stars. Yeah. But he knew what he was good at. He was good at lyrics. He was good at singing, and he was good at being a showman. Right. And he also had these great influences that most rock musicians did not have at that time. I mean, he was into stuff that if his fans knew, they would probably be horrified. So he had this background where he was really impressed by things like Vaudeville and, and, uh, non-musical things. Yeah. You know, like show tunes and stuff like that. And you came out of like the Zappa camp. And that's right. And all that kind of stuff. But you can hear that even in the earliest Alice Cooper stuff, but especially when he started working with that producer, Bob Esrin. Oh, yeah, yeah. You can really hear the influence of that stuff in, in those, you know, big hit albums of the early '70s of Alice Cooper. But then he had this manager who was an absolute genius, genius in Shep Gordon. And Shep Gordon was a guy who, you know, there was a documentary made about him recently. He just had his finger in every pie and was kind of this, this jack of all trades who really, really understood how to market, uh, well, a lot of P.A. represented a lot of people. But I mean, Alice Cooper, he really understood how to market him and did these cool things. Like, okay, we're going to put a pair of panties in this record album or the one, that's the one people remember from schools out. But the one that stuck with me was the Muscle of Love album, which was the last album, I believe, done with the, um, original band, the Alice Cooper band. And that came, and I can't believe I sold it years ago. I should have hung on to it. But that came in a box, a cardboard box, you know, like almost an inch thick probably. And it just had pink writing on it and it said this album contains one, and then the number one in a circle, Alice Cooper, Muscle of Love. And then at the bottom were what looked like cum stains all over the bottom of the box. So there were these condom busts. Yeah, there's really great marketing. And that's a very punk rock thing to do before that was, you know, like, that's such a marketing sort of fuck you. Yeah. And that was when I was a kid, I was such an Alice Cooper fan. And when I discovered punk rock, to me, there was a natural connection. It made sense. Which is probably why I really liked the quote unquote punk period of Alice Cooper. Besides the fact that the songs were really good, I just liked that he was, I love that he was doing something that went so far against the grain. Yeah. And so far against people's expectations. And not what his fans probably wanted. No, and everybody hated it. Yeah. I mean, he had a hit on the first one he did flush the fashion. He had a hit or at least a minor hit with the song Clones. Yeah. Which was like Gary Newman. Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. Yeah. And but he just, you know, he was a really fascinating character to me. And one of the things I really appreciated about him was the showmanship. So he was constantly it seemed in the 70s showing up on TV. He was on TV all the time. He was on Hollywood Squares. Yeah. Which is for this like sort of dark, dangerous rock character would show up. Yeah, on Hollywood Squares. Exactly. That's craziness for people to really understand. And what that probably meant to kids who were naturally had an affinity for that kind of stuff. When you got one of those little gems, you know, you're watching Hollywood Squares or whatever with your parents and you're like, wait a minute. This guy's on it. Because you because you had no internet, you had no, you didn't have that in depth knowledge of people and what they're like and what their influences are. You even if you were really into somebody, the kind of interviews you would read in rock magazines were and the kind of pieces you would read on musicians were just terrible. Yeah. I mean, they weren't really informative. They were essentially either puff pieces or slam pieces, but they were they were they didn't tell you much of anything. And that was the golden age of interviews radio station interview LPs, which they would mail out to stations with just the answers to questions. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I have a bunch of them at home. The white labels in mail them. Here's the questions. And so they'd have that local DJ read the question and someone would drop the needle on the answer. I'm embarrassed that I'm at my age in my line of work and I never knew that. Oh, they're they're fascinating. They're really interesting. Dick Clark was the king of doing those. Wow. He thought he was being clever because he would have them mix him like laughing over the end of responses and stuff, but it's so clearly a canned response. And because things weren't national, people wouldn't go. I just heard this interview in Chicago last week. That's right. And and and you when you got that when you got these little glimpses of somebody not doing not singing on a record, not being on stage, but doing something like being on a TV show or just talking like a normal person, it was it was like crack or something it was like, Holy cow, I've got this inside look into this person. And I don't again, that's something that I don't think, you know, kids into rock music today can understand how rare that was and how unbelievably satisfying that was. And I'm not at all kind of pining for the good old days. Yeah. But just sort of saying that these experiences form you in different ways. The magnitude of it, I think, makes it stick with you more. Yeah. When I, you know, one of the things that I've been doing the show with people with sort of our age and older than us, and when I've done it with people who are like 22 and younger, is that we have a tendency to remember these things a lot more clearly, because you had to sort of seek them out. And it was more of an event to watch or hear them, or when something good would happen, it was a bigger deal. So it stuck with you. So you sort of appreciated these things a little more. And I remember Midnight Special, I never liked because it was always like Leonard Skynard. I feel like it was every week was Leonard Skynard. But the, the police, the cars curate an episode once. Oh, okay. And they had suicide on. Oh, why? It was like NBC in 1982. I remember, I kind of everyone was like, what the hell is this? Or a show like Fridays that was having the clash on it. That's right. Well, there was that, there was that, it's interesting because there was that very, very brief time in, in TV. Very, very brief time where punk had actually already happened and peaked and, and was dying out, but, but had apparently become safe enough, but nobody really knew what was punk or what was new wave. I don't think anybody allowing this stuff on TV knew what was going on. But just sort of said, well, let's listen to the young people. And, and so some, some terrible stuff got through, but some really interesting and weird stuff got through that probably even today still wouldn't have like fear on Saturday Night Live. And that's right. Where they have all the DC people standing on Saturday Night Live on NBC in a mainstream show. Right. They wouldn't book fear on, on anything now. No, you wouldn't get it. No, and that's, and that's, that to me was almost the last gasp of that kind of just completely spontaneous kind of chaotic sense of rock and roll that, that, and the sense that there was a kind of revolutionary aspect to it, not politically, but in the sense of a culturally. Yeah. Infiltrating the mainstream in a way like it's like one of our guys got through and got onto this show. Yeah. And again, I don't think that sort of thing exists anymore. And I think it's, I think it's sad, I guess, in a way because, you know, what do you, what do you rebel against now? I mean, I don't, I don't know what kids rebel against anymore. And I'm not entirely sure that it's a good thing, especially for an aspiring rock musician to not have something concrete, simple black and white to rebel against, and of course, yeah. And of course, it's not simple, and it's not black and white, but, but when you're a teenager, you see it that way. Yeah. I don't know what there is anymore for, for kids. I mean, if you look at the culture now, like we, we have a Vietnam going on, but the way that it's dealt with in the popular culture is the absolute antithesis of the way the popular culture dealt with it in the 70s. And even in the 80s, a lot of the 80s stuff you'd have toilets on episodes with Vietnam vets are, you know, this like, we fucked up kind of shows. Yeah, but I think that's, I, my feeling on that is that was also kind of a perfect storm. There were a lot of things happening culturally, where, you know, I don't believe for a second it was like the war happened, and then, and then all these things happened, because again, if you grew up at that time, your life was, your life was absolutely inundated with Vietnam. Yeah, like everything, even after, especially after the war was over, Vietnam veterans were characters that showed up in TV and movies all over the place, and they were always very damaged. Yeah. So there was this attempt that I think was very damaging to actual veterans in the long run. There was this attempt to make Vietnam a uniquely horrifying war in the annals of American history, when in fact, a war like World War I was far, far worse. Right. World War II actually was far worse. I mean, they're all terrible, all wars are terrible. I'm not, I'm not, but I'm just saying there was this idea from my generation that this is the worst thing that ever happened in American history in terms of us going to war. This is why war is bad. This is why we shouldn't go to war, and it really sent a very inaccurate message to people in my generation. It was too far the other way. Yeah, a lot of ways. Yeah. There was, there was, you know, you had mash, which was ostensibly about the Korean War, but everybody had 70s haircuts. Yeah, it was pretty clearly, yeah, it was pretty clearly about the Vietnam War. And that show famously went on longer than the war it was supposed to be. That's right. And so, yeah, that was, we were, you know, recently, oh, I don't know, within the past three years, I think when B. Arthur died, I ran across somebody posted this clip, which was absolutely horrifying, a clip of the abortion episode of Mod, which everybody probably saw at least in reruns at the time, but nobody really remembers. And listening to this, listening to Mod's daughter, I can't remember the character's name. She was played by, yeah, she was played by Adrian Barbo. I don't remember the character's name. Everyone remembers that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because we, and we remember, well, if you're a John Carpenter fan, you remember she was, I think, briefly married to John Carpenter, the director. He was in Halloween. Yeah, she was in the fog and escaped from New York. That's right. Yeah. So very briefly and escaped from New York. So, or I guess, you know, it wasn't that small of a role. Yeah. She played Harry Dean, Harry Dean Sam's girlfriend. Yeah, yeah. I love her in Creepshow. So, yeah, that's right. Tell me about that. So, um, the, you know, the, uh, I lost my train of thought with Mod. Adrian Barbo. See, I started thinking about Adrian Barbo in that costume. I know I lost my train of thought. She's having that abortion discussion. That's right. So she's talking to Mod, her mother on the show. First of all, again, one of those things that so disturbed me about Mod, and my, I could never watch it, is Mod having an abortion seemed insane to me because she looked like she had hit menopause like 20 years early or 70s. Yeah. And now looking back, she's probably like 35. Yeah. I don't know if she had gray hair and she just didn't look like she could get pregnant. So the, so Walter, her husband, wasn't even part of this particular conversation. But the conversation, when this is, I believe that was a Norman Lear. Yeah. That's normal. I know it was spun off from, all in the family. But so she's telling her mother, no, no, no, she's basically trying to encourage her mother to have an abortion. And her mother, like, kind of has a moral issue of it, which is not really presented as a religious issue, but it's a generational thing and a cultural thing. And so she's like, no, no, mom. It's just like going to the dentist and getting a toothpold. And I thought, my God, that's what I grew up with. Yeah. I grew up with this attitude that was just completely morally bankrupt. And what I mean by that is, it, whatever you think about abortion, whether you think it should be legal or not, there was a word to present it. It is a, it is a way that it is not and would not be presented today. Right. There is no way on earth that a TV show or a movie would do that. Not because, not because they're scared of the reaction of the, of the Christian right, but because it's not going to resonate with anyone. No, even the most staunchly pro choice person would not describe it as just like going pulling a tooth at the dentist. Right. Right. So, so it's, it's when you are raised in that kind of culture where you're in completely uncharted territory morally, where you've said, for very good reason, where you've said, you know, this other generation has led us into this war in Vietnam and this other generation sat by on their hands and, and, and watched as racism continued. They're wrong about everything. Yeah. So, so they're so wrong and they have been so wrong that clearly we can't, they must be wrong about everything. Right. Exactly. And we can't, and you know, a good example of that is I am about 90% of the way through the new, it's not new, but the Harper Lee book goes set a watch. Yes. Yeah. And it's just, you know, the reviews about it have been insane and the commentary about it has been insane. But if you actually sit down and read it, it is something that should have been published a long time ago. It is the single best thing I've read about race relations in the civil rights area, era period. And the reason it is is the same reason that, that people are so against it, which is that it takes, it turns that idea that's put out into Kilomockingbird on its head because that is, that comes from a child's point of view and her father is a god and, and Go Set a Watchman is about the woman finding out that her father isn't a god. He's a man. Yeah. And so, but it also attacks and it insists on attacking with some nuance and with some depth, the issues in the south at that time. And it doesn't go for the easy answers and it doesn't go out of the simple black and white. That's right. And, and that's why that's what makes it great. But it's funny because that's what people are reacting to. And from, from where I'm sitting, it seems that what people are reacting to is that lack of distinction, that lack of absolute black and right, black and white, absolute right and wrong, good and evil. And I just, I don't know, I don't know that that's very good for people or good for the culture. And certainly, you know, one of the things that got pounded into your head, rightfully so, when you were growing up in the, in the 70s, in addition to the Vietnam stuff, was the idea of race relations and the idea that black people have been discriminated against and still are discriminated against. But it was done in this way that I think, even though my generation isn't real intense about this, it's the younger generation, I think that the result of this has been this kind of what they call the social justice warriors. This idea that loudly proclaiming something on the internet is equal to actually having some skin in the game and doing something about the problem. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's, it's interesting because I was accused, along with my friend Joe from the queers, of being racist, homophobe, I don't even know where the homophobic came from, that just seemed to be thrown in as a bonus. Well, you have a song called, I want to be a homosexual. Yeah, homophobe. Exactly. So racist, homophobic and sexist and this guy went out, who had a record label is trying to make a name for himself, went out and called on our record labels to drop us. So, um, in a response, I wrote on that on Facebook, I ended by saying, look, here is, um, we could, you know, we can be a bunch of white guys lecturing each other about racism on the internet, or you could shut up and, uh, and actually listen to black people and what they have to say about it. And, um, here's an example. There's a guy, uh, the Reverend Alex G and Madison, Wisconsin, um, who has a thing called justified anger. It's, uh, um, you know, an attempt to improve the position of blacks and Madison, which is a very, um, to use a word that is, uh, thrown around a lot by that crowd, by that politically correct crowd. Uh, there is a problematic racism and Madison, and Madison is a very, very liberal city, but it's a city that feels very smug and self-satisfied about race when, in fact, there are huge, huge racial disparities. So, um, I said, why don't you listen to what this guy, he wrote an op-ed that is just brilliant, absolutely brilliant. Why don't you listen to what this guy says, donate a little money, I'll start, I'll throw a hundred bucks and donate a little money to this, this organization, but let's shut up and stop arguing with each other and, and, and, no, not do something even, just shut up and listen, instead of constantly telling people and running around saying, this is what we're going to do for black people, why don't you ask, why don't you listen, instead of saying, we're going to create a situation where, um, where, uh, we don't kick anybody out of high school in Madison, because everybody deserves an education. Who is that disproportionately affecting, because if you listen to the voices in the black community, there's another organization in, uh, Madison called Young Gifted in Black, and the woman, whose name, unfortunately, I forget who, who is in charge of that organization, made the point that our children are getting a worse education now, because the troublemakers in their classes, which are, are not being kicked out. The Stedmans from class of 1984. They're not getting kicked out, because we say, oh, these, these poor kids need an education. And for myself, I mean, growing up in the 80s, I was kicked out of, I don't know how many high schools, but I mean, and I didn't do, you know, these kids are threatening their teachers, their, their, they're getting violent in a world with consequences. That's right. I think that they're, you know, when you, when you don't have consequences for fucking up, saying, oh, we can't ruin someone's life, whatever, whatever, you're not going to change anything. So that makes it harder as well. But this is, but it's interesting to me, because even in this culture of the 70s that we grew up, and where everything got turned on its head, and everything just sort of went crazy, and it was this free-for-all, and we, we thought, you know, we thought we were all going to be liberated and be happier people through all sorts of weird sex things. And, and we'll all be one gender. Yeah. I mean, just like all this stuff, even though we were inundated with that stuff, it never actually took hold in any meaningful way in people's lives at that time. And yet, what we're seeing now in the culture seems to be so much worse, even though that's not quite the message that's being sent. It's all being done under the guise now of compassion. It's all being done under the guise of, you know, we got to be kind to people and we want to, and we, and we want to help people who are marginalized, which is a wonderful thought. I think the intentions are really good. But, you know, what I see over and over in the culture, in addition to all the online culture, but in our culture and our TV and our films and all this, is the same thing that we saw on the 70s with race and Vietnam. It's this obsession, and it's a particularly, I think, American obsession with oversimplifying. Yeah. And if we're going to do anything, like anything worth doing is worth overdoing. Right. And so, we're going to go way, way overboard with everything and end up, and we don't think about any of the unintended consequences, and we end up making the situation worse, and we forget about the people on the ground who actually have to deal with the reality. I mean, you think about this, the TV in the 70s was so socially conscious. I mean, everything, sitcoms were socially conscious. And it was the golden age of that children's television as well, like they're free to be you and me. And that's right. Oh my god, I hated that stuff so much as a kid. Yeah. Free to be, you literally would make me feel physically ill. Yeah. But it was from, you know, the cradle to, it was everybody was getting these social messages. Yeah. And, and we got it in school, of course, as well. And, and again, I think very well intentioned, but if you look at the result of that, and if you look at what came out of that, actually anything good that came out of that was almost a reaction to that. Right. Right. You know, one of the things I like to talk about, you know, when you talk about Google and Facebook and this kind of infiltration into people's personal lives and our willingness to give up all this very personal information to these massive corporations that are profiting off of it, this is all stuff that sometimes was very accurately predicted, but, but was predicted in science fiction novels and TV shows going back to the 50s even. Yeah. I mean, we were all warned about this. The Twilight Zone Outer Limits is the most important morality sort of warning things that I got as a kid that made me question so many things. That's right. And I think not having those kinds of things, even though they were somewhat simplistic sometimes in morality plays, actually, I re-watched last week the episode with Billy Mooney as the monster child. And re-watching it, I hadn't seen it a few years, and re-watching it with the things we were just talking about in mind, where you're just encouraging this kid, you know, and the actors play that perfectly. Every horrible thing he does, they go, "That's real good that you did that." Well, because they're scared to death. It's too encouraging, and it's almost so prescient, you know, 30 years before that kind of stuff. Yeah. And it really is, you know, I think that, you know, you mentioned morality plays, and that I think that we get too clever in art sometimes, and we kind of feel like this has been done. And we do, you know, some of my favorite films is if you go back, the plot is almost verbatim from The Odyssey, or from some of these Greek tragedies, or whatever, from Shakespeare, or whatever it might be, that's totally irrelevant. You know, people don't understand what originality is. It is not coming up with something new, as I think we talked about earlier. It's coming up, it's taking what is there, and what is established, and putting your spin on it. But we don't need anything new. Yeah. And there's only a certain amount of stories. What we need is an interesting way of presenting it. But there's, there is plenty of room for that, but unfortunately, what we're getting in terms of morality is a lot of moralizing. Yeah. And I wonder sometimes what, what this generation of my kids, you know, my kids who are six and four years old, you know, what are they learning from this? And what is their generation going to be like? Because I think we've, what we see now with the generation, you know, like the college age generation, what I see is a lot of weakness, intellectual weakness, a lot of just almost willful ignorance and stupidity. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. And a desire to hold on to this kind of to childhood, really. I mean, we see it's very common now to see guys in their 30s unmarried living with male roommates sitting around spending all their time smoking pot and playing video games. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's, you know, the idea of like kind of taking charge of your life and making things happen. If you want them to happen, look, that never appealed to me. I was lazy, and I was impatient, and I didn't want to do that. But I always understood that those were the rules of the game. You have to do it. Yeah. There's no coming of age stories I've seen anymore. If you look at the television show, well, first of all, television and movies got split into tweens and people in college. Like, so teenage stuff isn't even really, aside from the things about magic, like Twilight. Right. Right. But there's no real coming of age stories, like James 15 was a perfect. That's right. That kid had to struggle with stuff, or even something like Revenge of the Nerds, or you know, these show, these movies and shows that were about some sort of coming of age. Well, I think I would say the one exception to that is one you mentioned earlier, which was freaks and geeks. And I know that was a wild back, but now that show never got the chance to really explore that because it was canceled. And they buried it on Saturday nights. Yeah. And right, which is a good, who's the last demographic that's going to be home on a Saturday night? Put it on the show. Yeah. I mean, so, but that show did seem interested in it. And it did something really cool in that because really that was the show that launched the career of a wall of a lot of people, really, but but the Judd. Apital. Apital. Okay. Which, you know, became this massive comedy force, which so many people have copied. That's mainstream comedy now. Exactly. That was the seed. And yet, where it came from was doing something that was very, very traditional. Yeah. And, and you wanted to see, I was so bummed when I finished that show. And I was like, no, I want to see what happens to this girl when she goes away for the summer and follow the Grateful Dead. Yeah. And the fact that I even remember that is amazing to me because I don't even remember details like that. But I want to see what happens to this kid. You know, I want to see, I want to see as he grows up, you know, the episode that really sticks out for me, in part because it was such a transformative record for me when I was a teenager is when the James Franco character discovers the black flag damaged him. And he's just sitting there with headphones on listening to this and you get the ideas, just listening to it over and over and over. And I don't recall if it's the same episode or not, but there's another scene where he ends up playing Dungeons and Dragons with the nerds and really getting into it. Yeah. And that was just fascinating to me because it, it's, that could be mishandled and done badly in so many ways. And it could be done well in so few ways. Yes. It seems very natural and not as like a movie, I think of around the same time was like SLC punk. Right. Or, you know, in those movies. And I know people that love that movie, but the way it handles that is so less naturalistic and then like that freaks and geeks episode, which, yeah, it's kids in the suburbs, you're like, what it, you know, it's much more, I connected with that in a lot, a lot more. We're in SLPC punk too. So I can't say anything bad about that. The truth of the matter is I've not, yeah, I've not seen SLC punk, which I feel terrible about because I'm, I'm my band is in the secret. And yeah, and I, but I do know being in the sequel that their fans are absolutely incredibly passionate about it. And, but yeah, with, with freaks and geeks, there is that thing, you know, it's so easy to forget because you're like, Oh yeah, this, this guy basically invented this new style of comedy. And he really didn't know. He just, he just, he's really, really good at what he does. Yes, it's like, you know, my so-called life before that and even some of the wonder years stuff that's just they managed to tell these same stories. That's right. We've not only all heard a million times, but lived. Yeah. And just do it in a way that has a personal spin or the characters are great. And it's very small. But there's another element to it that I think is really important that you, when you mentioned the wonder years, I thought about this, because the problem with the, the wonder years to me was that was an absolute baby boomer show. Yeah, that was to me, that's my parents generation idea. It was totally not relatable to me. And, and where freaks and geeks succeeded is that it was, it was somebody probably from my generation, I assume the guy's probably around my age, but I was able to relate to that absolutely and thoroughly. That was basically my, my life at that age. Yeah, it can't, it's almost like a documentary. And it doesn't, it also doesn't, it's not doesn't spend so much time being like, and I think it's crazy in the 80s. Yeah, right, right. It just happens to be set then. Right. Right. It doesn't, yeah, it doesn't overdo all that kind of stuff. So yeah, that was a really great one. And I know we got off the 70s stuff, but to me there, there really is that kind of connection. And if I say one thing on this podcast that doesn't get edited out, it should be, it should, because I'll talk forever if you let me, it should be that I have great respect for an appreciation for the American art form of the sitcom. I love sitcoms. Yeah, it's one of my favorite things. And yeah, and I think that done well, they can be a really tremendous, well, I mean, one of the best things to ever be on TV is faulty towers. Yeah. And that is an absolutely classic sitcom. And of course, one of my favorites is, is the Dick Van Dyke show. Yeah. So I think it's a, it's a, it is a legitimate art form. And I talk with people about this all the time too. I watched General Hospital. I started watching it a few years ago. I think I've missed like three episodes where I had to catch up online. Right. I DVR that thing and I watch it while I'm working out. And, and the point that I make to people is I do not, you don't invest the kind of time I invest in watching something like that. If you're watching it ironically, there's no, you can't, you can't not possibly, you can't maintain that. And I watch it because it, it's absolutely classic. It's a lost art. It's a, it's a style. No one does. It's a style nobody does. It's a universe unto itself that is completely unbelievable. And yet, it touches on all the important aspects of the human condition and especially the really difficult ones. Yeah. Nobody ultimately is happy on that show. Everybody is the master of their own destruction on that show. They all lie no matter how many times their lies ruin their lives. They keep lying. They all steal. They cheat. They do terrible things and they regret those things and they know that they're terrible things and yet they keep doing them. And this to me is, it's kind of classic storytelling. Yeah. And, and really, and the other thing is that a lot of people assume, and again, I think this is a, this is an old fashioned way of thinking, but a lot of people assume, oh, it's all bad acting. Most of the acting on that show is, is actually quite good, I think. It stylizes one. It's a style of acting that is very difficult to do. I imagine that it's, I imagine that there is nothing including live theater that is more difficult to do than to do filming on a soap because from what I understand, they film an incredible amount of material in a relatively short amount of time. Yeah. And then, you know, they take their break and then they come back and they do, but they do these very, very long days where they're, it's basically live. I mean, I've had soap opera actors on the show and a lot of times they'll be acting with lines that were just written off of cue cards and they have to act as well as just, if that's difficult. I am, I don't know if I could ever be an actor, but if I were ever going to study acting, I would sit there and watch General Hospital because I feel like I have learned things about acting and watching this show. I have watched some of these actors on the show get better. I have watched some of them have terrible scenes. I've watched some of those same people have just amazingly, emotionally riveting scenes. So it's, I, you know, don't look down your nose at anything on TV without kind of investigating first because some of this stuff is, you know, I hate the reality shows, but Dog the Bounty Hunter was, was great. Yeah. I think what I'd say is format is not quality. That's right. It's sort of, it's just different genres. That's right. And then you've got to probably get out of here. Yeah, I got to get back. But I will, as I ask whenever I'm a musician on the show. Sure. Favorite TV theme song. Oh, TV theme song. Oh, man, that puts me on the spot. Gee whiz. I'm trying to think of the ones that I really think I probably have to go with just because it makes me laugh the theme from 7th Heaven. Okay. Excellent. Excellent. That's a good choice. And we come back from the beginning show that we remember. That's right. Thanks for doing the show, Ben. I really thank you very much. So there you go. That was Ben, a really, really fun conversation with Ben there. If you haven't checked out the music of screeching Weasel and you enjoy punk rock and pop punk and that kind of stuff, definitely check it out. I was sort of an angry angsty teen, but the sort of lookout records crew was a was a really fun, although often bittersweet and sad, great songs there. So it was really, really great to speak with Ben. And interestingly enough, almost 20 years ago to the day that I talked with Ben and Joe, who's going to be coming up next, I saw almost the exact same show at the rat in Boston. I saw it was not screeching Weasel, it was the Riverdales, which was the more Ramonzi incarnation of screeching Weasel. But it was with Ben, but it was them, the queers, Mr. T experience and a band called Boris the sprinkler with a guy named Reverend Norb who were really, really fun bands. It was very, very, I cannot believe that was 20 years ago. That is completely insane. But there you go. Ben also has a podcast called Weasel Radio that you should check out if you don't already. And yeah, check out his music. It's good stuff. So on to my second guest. I had less time with this guest. This is Joe queer of the band, the queers. And Joe is a really fun, interesting guy, New Hampshire native, they are New England band, despite sounding very, very west coast. And I mean that as a compliment. I really enjoyed talking to Joe. I did have some audio issues in the middle of this episode. One of my mic cables failed me. So unfortunately, it's not as long as the whole interview is. So I cut out a trunk in the middle, unfortunately, but we did get a good conversation going. So you're missing about 10 minutes of stuff here. So I'm very sorry. And the last minute or two, I fixed the audio as best as possible. But I just wanted to keep that wrap up in there. But I really enjoyed talking to Joe. The queers are an excellent band. They're really, really great. They are basically the punk rock beach boys. That is sort of a sort of a trite explanation of them. But it's actually very, very accurate. They really have some great pop songs. So please sit back and enjoy the second quarter of this episode of TV guidance console with my guests, Joe Queer. Hello out there, TV guide land. Yeah, I have a selection here. We got like mid 70s, early 80s, ish was my kind of guess on when you might be watching the most TV, 70s, 60s. This was Chico and the man. I remember that one. That's a Freddy brand. Didn't he kill himself? Did he shot himself? Yeah. God, that's weird. He was the first stand up on a New York City to get his own show. Yeah, I didn't know that. But this was like, welcome back hotter stuff. Yeah, sure. Yeah, welcome back hotter. Yeah, in Portsmouth, Northampton, New Hampshire, Portsmouth area. Yeah, you have to beach the type of stuff. That's right. Yeah. So you're getting New Hampshire stations and Boston stations probably? Yeah. You know, when I was growing up, we had just like channel 56 channel 38 and then 27 came in, I think. And then I think we got 25 WMUR was out of channel nine. No, nine. That's a national. Oh, Manchester. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a weird thing when I said to people around those like border state border areas, because you're getting TV from like multiple states, which is always where it probably makes warland. We didn't get much out of there. It was mainly Boston. Yeah. So when like the UHF came in, we got 38 and 56. Yeah. It was really exciting. So you watch like creature double features and those kinds of stuff or like the beach party movies? Yeah, all that stuff. And you know, late night, you'd have the Alvira and the Don Carson's rock shows or the wrong stone's doing dance with Mr. D. That was a goats head soup. And that was really cool. Cause they just showed as I recall, Charlie Watts, like not moving, just looking straight ahead and must have been gacked out. And all of a sudden it shot back and you realized he was playing. Yeah. Cause he wasn't even moving. His head's not moving at all. And they're the smoke show. And it was really cool. It just really no frills. But yeah, dancing dancing with Mr. D. Is that how you got exposed to most of that stuff up in New Hampshire was through television? Cause I mean, you're probably getting some major rock stations, but not a lot of like other stuff. Oh, no, I mean off the radio. I grew up in the 60s. So like AM radio was great. And then we turned, you know, WBCN. So we got really cool WBCN edifice. And so, you know, that thing started and then I had an older sister, a couple older sisters, all the brothers. So, you know, got into, would steal their albums and listen to that stuff. So, you know, BCN, AM radio for the longest time was great. And then the rock FM came in and it was really cool. Yeah. BCN is something that really comes up a lot on the show. Cause you know, we had a lot of local people and stuff as does Dana Hersey from TV38. But BCN people forget who maybe are from here and just knew it sort of at the tail end. That station changed a lot. Oh, are you kidding me? That station, they broke edifice, broke the police. Yeah. I remember seeing the police on a Wednesday night or a Tuesday night at the rat play in front of about 46 people. That's a legendary smoke pot. I was standing in front of the rat with Stuart Copeland and Andy Summers. And I had the little badge. I had worn my police badge. I had stolen from a cop or something. And they were like, "Okay, nice badge." They were just milling around. I said, "Hey, you guys want to smoke some pot?" And so they're like, "Yeah." So, we stood out in front. I said, "Where's the other guy?" He doesn't want a smoke sting. And then they played and they were really nice. And I remember talking to him, my friend, Ralph Fatello, the Vinny band opened up. And so that was... Were you doing the quiz by that point? No. Okay. But edifice was the one who broke Roxanne, a smaller demo version of Roxanne. He wasn't going to play the shit out of that. And then he was the one who broke them in the U.S. edifice. So with U2 and the cars, obviously. Yeah. But I think they did their first demos at PCF. Oh, yeah. They weren't good. I wasn't quite sure on that. I saw them at the rat. They were an amazing band. Really great songwriters. So you drive them down from no time to a lot? Yeah. For New Hampshire, Portsmouth and stuff. Yeah. With Wyntonby and yeah, we would drive down. Yeah. Worlds, our music was on... Mass Ave. Yeah. The corner of Mass Ave and whatever the street is. Super Street. Super Street. Yeah. Super Street. And so I'd go there. And I remember seeing Rick O'Kazek in there. And so we had... Newbury Comics when it was on Newbury Street. And so I remember going in there. And that was pretty cool. When Amy Mann was working at Newbury Comics. I can't remember. I remember her just being around town. Yeah. And till Tuesday, of course, we saw them. You know, a fair amount of times. And the pixies were like nobody and then the needs. But anyway, yes. We were drive down. Wimpy and me and whoever. Yeah. And I always see the Ramones and I always see whoever was playing at the rat. Because where we came from, it was really different. Like, you know, we saw rock shows at the Boston Garden. Right. And then, you know, the rat was great where you could talk to the musicians and you know, like that. And you could smoke pot with them and talk to them. And it was like really cool. You know, it was like, wow. And so it was like a totally different thing. But I see Jethro Tull is playing like next door over here. Yeah. And I would tell these guys his story when I was in high school. I saw Jethro Tull back then we would go to like all the rock shows just because... It was probably all that there was. You know, there was nothing else to do. There was nothing on the internet. So you were like, you know, you'd go to see anybody. I'd see Fleetwood Mac or The Eagles or Steve Miller band or whoever. The Outlaws. You know, Jethro Tull, they would tour a lot. And I remember seeing Jethro Tull. There was a spotlight. The lights went down to the Boston Garden. And then you just showed, they showed Ian Anderson standing there. And then all of a sudden out of the darkness, a baby carriage comes pushing, rolling along right up next to him. And he reaches down, he pulls out his flute out of the baby carriage. And then he does the little thing with a leg and starts fucking like he's the gypsy fucking guy and starts doing his flute fucking thing. And he could never keep his foot up. You know, it was really obnoxious because like, you know, I guess it was like, who did those in the elevator? He's not the fiddler, though. In the old he's talking time to time to time. And he would never stand up there. It was like, you fucking keep your fucking leg straight, you motherfucker. What are you doing? It was always, but that was like a big move. The baby carriage coming with a flute out of him. And we're just talking about that. We're going to have Wyatt from pity horse is going to come up and play guitar. And I'm like, he said, you know, we should do the baby carriage. And I said, well, you should be in the baby carriage and jump out and grab the guitar. I'll pull your out and stand up on one foot. Right. Did you get like V 66? They were playing a lot of weird stuff in the early 80s. Yeah, I didn't pay attention too much to that. Right. So you're a straight radio guy. Pretty much, yeah. Or by just buying albums, you know? So how did you, I mean, another Hampton Beach is obviously a big seaside beach town. And you guys are very influenced by sort of surf music and beach boys and that kind of stuff, which a lot of people never associate with New England at all. Weirdly, even though there is a whole culture of that. Oh, yeah. Of course, yeah. I always got that stuff through TV. I mean, I was always fascinated by like the surf movies and the surf monster movies and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. A lot of my friends were all surfers. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin Grondin, Jeff Oaks, Ralph Furtello from the, from the Vinnie band. So they were listening to that kind of music? Yeah. We loved all that stuff. We loved all the surf, Diptail and all that stuff. Yeah. Diptail from Quincy Mass. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. I forgot about that. Yeah, Dick. And so, yeah, we were always, I don't know what, I just like that 60s music, like the turtles and Del Shannon and, you know, 50s and 60s stuff. And then beach boys and then so we just were always into that. And then like for us, like the Ramones were just like a normal punk rock beach boys. Right. Really, you don't knock away beach and all that. So it all made sense. So that's kind of once that punk things started, I just, you just got into that. You just didn't sound it right. You lasted into it. Yeah. I was just a normal thing to go from like the David Bowie Ziggy Stardust Aladdin saying Diamond Dogs into Lou Reed Velvet Underground. That's stuff. Iggy Pop in the Stooges, Ian Hunter, McRonson, Mado Hoop. I saw Ian Hunter and McRonson at the Orpheum, which was around here. Some place I don't know where it is. Yeah. It's on the same street, actually. Yeah. I thought it was right along here. Yeah. I know. The music hall I saw the faces across the street. The music hall. Oh, wow. Yes. With Ron Wood. Wow. Yeah. It was just amazing. And actually Peter Frampton opened up that show and he recorded some of that show and it was used for Frampton. It comes a lot. Really? Yep. At the music hall, if you read this fine print. Some of it was like, some of it was recorded on that tour. And I'll never forget the review of that show how great it was. And then there was one little paragraph at the end. Like Peter Frampton was good, but not great. And then I was like, yeah. They used some of that concert for selling albums of all time. Yeah. But I agreed. I was like, you know, I like it, but it was not like, I don't know, it was kind of, and I liked Peter Frampton, but I just, it was a little too lightweight. And I just didn't think he was that great. Frampton comes alive, but some of Frampton comes alive, recorded the music hall. It was on the basis door. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So we watched a lot of variety shows and that kind of stuff at the time, because that was kind of the only place to see musicians on TV where they would show up in like weird places. You know, I don't remember it too much. I wasn't like a really big TV, guy, just like a side person. I mean, even now, I don't like watch all them, you know, every movie that comes out or anything like that. I was like more into reading books. Really? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What are some of your books that you read all the time, are you just like, I need new stuff all the time? No, no, I'll read the same old, same old, you know, over like Confederacy dunces, I'll read that like once every two years, maybe, you know, I'm about to pick it up and read that. And I read a lot of English stuff, Anthony Trollup, and P.G. Woodhouse, like all that cheese and all that. And I'm reading some books, my friends and author. And so I'm reading some books about Kentucky, Kevin McQueen. It's really good stuff. Check it out. Yeah. And that's what I've been reading lately is Kevin's stuff actually about all these, he goes through all these old papers and get stories and, you know, does the background, gets all this information and stuff that happened back in the 1800s and stuff like court cases and murders and all sorts of different stories. And it's really interesting. And so I've been actually reading a lot of his stuff. But, you know, I was thinking about going back to like Somerset mom, I was like, you know what, I'm going to, I got to read those short stories. I used to love his short stories, you know, Henry. I used to, I've still got the whole complete volumes of all Henry and I really love that. Oh, and here's one of those things that influenced so many things after that Henry, like every tales from the Crypt, the Twilight Center, those are just so Henry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was, but I was a voracious reader. So I just grew up and I really liked a lot of the, you know, I read all that Somerset mom. I really like, and I really liked that English writers. I just liked the, the prose the way they read. So, anyway, I'm actually in the middle of starting an Anthony Troll up stuff and Dr. Frank actually gave me his second book, which I have not read. So that's actually an ex book I'm going to read. Yeah. So you got, you got a stack of things to read. Why would you? Yeah. I mean, you know, I always got, you know, eight books next to my bed. And so that's just, Were you a fan of Felix the cat? Because I know the queersies feel like the cat. Chris started that thing. No, I was not especially, you know, he just started it and kind of stuck with it. Yeah. So you're like, people like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I was like, Chris started it. I don't know. But it's kind of like, now you have to be a fan. Yeah, right. So I like it, you know, we can always steal. We're so, we fly below the radar screen. So nobody really cares from, right, whoever it's from Warner Brothers or whatever. So, you know, we get the whistling feelings. We're going to, I want to use one where he's carrying a time bomb next. And then I got one where he's printing that one up, the time bomb and doing one where he's washing dishes. Yeah. And so it's been a fun, exactly what it is. But fun little thing that Chris came up with. So I think you wanted to do something like the screeching weasel, you know, weasel light. I was calling to get drive Ben crazy. I was me and Bface. We call it the screeching weasel dog. Right. So he's taking the weasel motherfucker. It's not a weasel. Did you ever see any, like, rock and roll high school or are there remote? Did you go anywhere? Do you like see that movie because they were in it or anything like that? Rock and roll high school? Oh, of course. Yeah. Yeah. We fucking are you kidding me? I just didn't lie down here at the Harvard Square theater to see it, I believe. Oh, God, yeah. You were like psyched that it was coming out. Like, Oh, God. Yeah. We were all on top of that shit. Yeah. You kidding me? I was, I was totally, we were like, once we heard the Ramones, we just did all kind of clip and made sense. And, you know, we were just like kind of a cross between like Black Flag TV party. If you know that seven or they're sitting around wearing their clothes at the graduated war, when they were going to high school a few years ago, drinking butt out of the can and like listening to like, you know, the Ramones. Yeah. And so that was a real big influence because that was exactly, we looked at that and go, that's exactly us right there. Right. You know, and so this isn't again. And then there were listening to the Ramones and then like when, when, you know, the Ramones, I don't care. Now I just want to sniff some blue. It was like so weird that there was a band singing about how we felt. Right. So we really caught into that. And it all kind of made sense. The me men was a big influence. Like when they came out, we were like, fuck man. It was really inspirational. I told Tesco V, because we're like, fuck if they can do a weekend, you know. And that's how I felt. I was telling Descatina, I met him and I said, you know, when I first saw Black Flag out West, I was expecting like a cross between the Ramones and pro wrestlers. Right. Like because I, my brother lived in Manhattan Beach, California, and they were from her most of Black Flag. So you'd always see, I went out there to live and you see the Black Flag with a slash. And I had never seen them, seen them. Right. And so the reputation though, is that right? And I went and so I remember I had asked like three or four people who was this and look at this Black Flag. And then I realized like it was just these guys at that point, they were three piece and people would just jump on stage screaming at the mic and then get thrown off. And then another guy would say, when nobody else was up there, Des would say it was like so powerful. And so I remember like Colin Whippy and I was like, we can start a band. I saw Black Flag and dude, they're small than us. And if that's Black Flag, we can do it, you know. It's terrible. Yeah. And I told, I was like, that's how we felt. It was really empowering. And so they had way more impact on me than when Rollins came, Rollins was kind of what I imagined. A big top guy would beat you up. You know, that was, it didn't have the impact. Not that I didn't like Rollins. It was a different vibe though. And they got it. Yeah. Yeah. And and I really enjoyed that too. And saw them with him. And I thought he was great. But I remember at the time, nothing could replace that feeling of like, wow, that's Black Flag. And man, we could do it, dude. We could do it. That's Black Flag. You had to do interesting things. You had to see them for that to kick in because the world was so much bigger in a lot of ways. And you could. Yeah. You just heard reputations and you heard a record here. Yeah. I saw them once and everything. So it became legend. Well, you had to work hard to like, you know, you didn't just log on and hit Google. You fucking had to work hard to like, discover this. And it was so cool. Like your friend would say, Oh, check out this book or check out this album. Or have you seen this and like, yeah, and like, you know, it was really weird. It really fun. You know, where you would discover this stuff and all the albums and like, look at this album. And it was just really cool. And and the world was a bigger place back then, you know, so did you see fear on Saturday Live in 1980? Yes. Oh, of course, you watched that. Yeah, I saw them at the whiskey too. Oh, wow. Yeah, that was one of the first times I think I ever saw a stage that was at fear at the whiskey. I didn't see John Belushi drum for him. He was supposed to show up, but he didn't. And yeah, they were great. Because if that's the first time, I think historically that a band from that punk rock scene was on it means. Yeah, yeah, they were great. I remember meeting leaving backstage at the Olympic when it was fear circle jerks. And I think the Plem soles out at the Olympic weird, weird. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know. Mickey was a friend of ours and he knew those guys and leaving was there. And he was very cool. And the Plem soles I really liked. I was wearing their poppy stuff. I wasn't in the circle jerks as much. In fear, I really love their energy. But anyway, yeah, that was really cool that they were on there. I really liked that. And it was funny going to those. When you went to those shows, like the DK's or something, like I remember they played New Year's Eve at the West Hollywood at the bowling alley or something, it's so old out. And it was just like you felt like you were at where the Ramones at the Hollywood Palladium. I was walking through the crowd. It was so classic. I'm walking through the crowd. There's just tons of people. It was a midday during the summer. I'm walking through the crowd and I literally bumped into John Jett. She was out there with a bunch of her little guys. Then I said, "Hey, John Jett." And she's like, "Yeah, John Jett. Fuck you." Perfect. That's when you watched some other time, you know? That was my John Jett story. And that's probably what you feel for doing the germs and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And that was, yes, exactly. This was like the late 70s. And so I was able to like see all this Boston stuff, but also see a lot of that great accent. You know, all those bands, Black Flag and you know, angry Samoan social D when they were small blasters. They were at Club 88 on Pico. And I saw madness at a place called Tiger Rose on Melrose at Clothing Store. Wow. They were really fucking good too. Just hanging out. They came in, set up a little PA. They didn't even move the clothes. They just played. It was pretty cool. Went out and walked around to a fucking bar or something. We walked down there with a couple members and just, you know, it was really cool. So you kind of got spoiled for this very accessible people. That really is amazing bands. They're just kind of right here. Yeah. Yeah. So it was pretty cool to get to see all that stuff. But yeah. Anyway, the Black Flag, Rodney and the Rock, that was a big one that I would listen to on Sunday nights and just want to live like Yogi Bear. My stook is over at Bedrock. I love that song. Just want to live like Yogi Bear. Do you know a guy named Sid Griffin from the long writers? Yes. He's a writer also. Yeah. Yeah. And he's in the Cole Porter COAL orders. He lives in London now. Anyway, he had a punk band, Garage Band, called The Unclaimed. And I totally forgot all about this. But I stumbled on some site and the name Shelley Gantz came up and the unclaimed and I go, I chambered with those guys. I was going to be in the band and they broke up. Jeez. Yeah. And so it was Sid Griffin and Shelley Gantz. And so I tracked down Shelley on Facebook. Apparently he's somewhat reclusive. And I was like, I wonder what Shelley's up to. He's an awful nice guy. Right. And so I said, hey man, you remember a jam with you, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's great to see you playing. And he just wrote me, he brought me on Facebook and he said, thank you. You know, he writes something, you know, at least like, hey, good to hear from you. So I had to laugh. But it was nice. I did get a response out of him. But anyway, yeah, it was pretty cool. I saw a lot of great stuff out there, man. I lived in Venice Beach. So it was really cool. And I got to see a lot of like really cool bands out there. So plus all the, you know, stuff back here. So it was really, I was pretty lucky in a lot of ways to be able to do that. But I was, I had a ball at almost every show. So whenever I'm a musician on, I always ask what your favorite TV theme song was. Did you have one? Oh, no. I really liked the, I still will, you know, a lot of the sixties thing when I think shows like Beverly Hill Village, right, right Stones for Munster's Adams family. Sure. Brady Bunch be which for some reason I had that on my head the other day. And so I'm usually locked in at that kind of era. Right. And then sort of like once the 70s started, I like started getting into more music and was always still reading. And so I got to wait for like watching TV so much. For some reason, I just, I just felt watching too much TV as a waste of time on certain shows and other stuff I love, you know. So yeah, it was like appointment television you couldn't miss. There was like, was there a few things even when you weren't watching TV? Like you had to watch that. Yeah, you know, I was always into like film the war stuff and like the old black and white movies and, and, you know, creature double feature. So the late show type stuff. Get you 60s 50s stuff and, you know, brain that would die and just create, you know, each and one black one. Monster zero. I just always really loved catching those movies, you know, it's so exciting. Oh man, they're showing this movie. It was special too, because you don't know when the hell those are going to air again are like, oh yeah, exactly. Right. You couldn't just dial it up online. You don't want to lie. Right. And it was almost like the same with the punk rock scene where at that point, if you if you met somebody who'd seen one of those movies, you all of a sudden had something in common. Like, yeah, you were like, you know, it's the same kind of thing. You're like, you saw that too. It's real. Kind of have that. It's that shared experience. Well, thank you, Joe. Thanks so much for talking to me for the show. I'm glad we're here. Oh, you're welcome. Yeah. That was Joe Queer. Again, I apologize for the last two minutes there with the audio. We had a little little cable mishap with one of the things I think it kind of came out and there were there were some issues. So I fixed it as good as possible. But in in effort to be completely as as whole as possible, I wanted to have the wrap up in there. Joe's a really cool guy. I really enjoyed talking to him. I could talk about the old punk rock days forever. And I realized it was not that TV centric of a of a conversation as Joe is not the biggest fan of TV in the world. But but was interesting nonetheless. Interesting side note story. I was a big fan of the queers still am in high school. I had a queers grow up t-shirt that I used to wear frequently. I was not a hit with the ladies. Did not have a girlfriend. I was probably 18 years old and in hindsight, everybody likely thought I was gay. I'm not, which is fine if I were. But I wore that shirt every day and a Spanish teacher who liked me and thought she was helping me out called me after class one day and and pointed to my shirt and said Ken, that's it's not really the way to tell people that. And I honestly had no idea what she was talking about. But in hindsight, pretty ridiculous and entertaining nonetheless. So check out the music of both of those bands and the Mr. T Experience. As I mentioned, who were on the show and our great, great, great band. Hopefully Frank from that band and I will be chatting at some point in the future. We couldn't work it out timing wise this trip, but it'll happen. It'll happen. They're a great band and do a lot of TV themed songs and TV themed song covers and songs about Danny Partridge, you know, all that kind of stuff. Also, Scrooching Wiesel when I was thinking about it, they reference TV so much that just even the word television comes into so many of their lyrics. It's ubiquitous. So anyway, we, this is Friday. We don't always do new episodes on Friday. So the weirdly have kind of fell into a pattern of releasing episodes with musicians on Fridays. So maybe that'll continue. I don't know. But every Wednesday, we have a brand new edition of the show, but make sure you subscribe because, as I said, this episode's on a Friday. You never know when episodes will come out, not on a Wednesday. Sometimes I do bonus episodes at multiple episodes in a week. I like to keep you guessing. So make sure that you subscribe on iTunes. And if you enjoyed the show, please, please, please rate and review the show. It is a huge help, even just a one review of great or, you know, whatever you want. It could be bad. I don't know. If you didn't like the show and you got this far, you may want to leave a bad review. I would appreciate it if you didn't do that. But, you know, hey, you gotta, you gotta go with your heart. Anyway, this is TV Guidance Counselor, and you can email me at tvguidancecounselor@gmail.com or @TVguidance on Twitter or canadhycanread.com. We also have a Facebook page. You can just search TV guidance counselor, love hearing from you guys, love to hear what you think. And if you are new to the show, this week's earlier episode on Wednesday, episode 100 was our clip show. So sort of an overview of the first 50 episodes or so, some of my favorite guests and favorite moments on the show. So it's a little primer. If this is your first episode and you want to check out some more, but you're intimidated by the back catalog, I recommend you check that one out. Or come back next Wednesday. We'll have a great new episode of TV Guidance Counselor. There was the great Doberman Panic of the 70s and they became a very popular dog. I'm embarrassed that I'm at my age, in my line of work, and I never knew that.
