July 4 -10, 1974
This week Ken welcomes Buffalo Tom frontman Bill Janovitz to the show.
Ken and Bill discuss TV Theme Songs, Bill's writing of the Mike O'Malley theme, Yes Dear, This Old House, growing up in New York, 80s NYC vs 90s NYC, how the gay part of town is always where the interesting stuff is going on, Beverly Hills and it's Welcome Sign, why LA is great, Fabio, Tim Reid (no relation), All in the Family, staying up late in the Summer, three camera sitcoms, how the faux-documentary style is played out, Blackish, the shared experience of television as a kid, Seinfeld, the generation gap, Maureen Stapleton vs. Jean Stapleton, Those Were the Days, Melancholy TV music, TV with multi-generational appeal, Norman Lear, the occasional brutality of 70s family television, VCR culture, quoting movies, gold fish memories, The Jeffersons, the mystery of the Good Times theme song, The Midnight Special, the seeds of wanting to be a rock star, Don Kirshner's Rock Concert, SNL, Fear's Halloween Saturday Night Live set, Rock Fantasy Camp with Graham parker, Kate Pierson, Soul Train, My So-Called Life, Why Catwalk, Devo on Square Pegs, why MTV is not the maffia, No Alternative, The Monkees, The Jackson 5, music cartoons, KISS, Tony Orlando and Dawn, 8 Tracks, The Golden age of variety shows, Pink Lady and Jeff, The Brady Kids Variety Hour, Telma Hopkins, The Osmonds, the creepy nature of Little Jimmy Osmond, Linda Carter, Ann Margaret, Wild Kingdom, The Wonderful World of Disney, Adventures in Satan's Canyon, 70s obsession with canyons, Battle of the Network Stars, Suzanne Somers running around, Dan Hagerty's pecs, ESPN's World's Strongest Man competitions, Kojak, 70s TV noir, adding homicide to arson, Alex Rocco, why Facts of Life is Ken's Kevin Bacon, Candid Camera, Bloopers, watching football bloopers on 8mm at the library, Maude, Rhoda, Norman Lear, Bill's textbook deadpan, the sexless-ness of Maude, Happy Days vs. Good Times, bongos, Dynamite Magazine, Barnaby Jones, Hawaii Five-O, Welcome Back Kotter, Taxi, James at 15, TVT Recrods TV Theme Song LPs, the right age for nostalgia, covering money with the Rembrandts, hanging out with Rick James watching the Cheers finale, David Lynch, The Robb Brothers, Hank Shocklee, The loss of shared family experience, The Waltons, the mechanics of a joke, SNL's 40th, being part of the comedy generation, SCTV, Harry Shearer, Jon Stewart, Streets of San Francisco, The Simpsons, being surprised by embarrassing commercials watching television with your kids, Sanford and Son, Truck Stop Comedy Tapes in the tour bus, Quincy Jones, The Saint, The Rockford Files, Police Woman, Dads loving Angie Dickinson, Get Christine Love, and watching The Honeymooners after 10pm.
You have a TV? No, I don't like to read the TV guide. Read the TV guide. You don't need a TV. Hello and welcome. Happy Wednesday to you. My name is Ken Reed. I am your TV guidance counselor and this is appropriate enough is my podcast TV guidance counselor. Welcome to the show. Thank you guys so much for listening. If you're a new listener, welcome. My guest this week is excellent. If you're checking out the show just because of him, please enjoy it and I'm sure you will like it and go back and listen to old episodes or maybe subscribe and listen to episodes in the future. My guest this week is Mr. Bill Janovitz. Bill is probably best known as being the frontman for the band Buffalo Tom, an amazing band, just some excellent excellent songs and a band that's come up on the show pretty often around especially their my so-called life appearance, a show that was really important to make growing up in many of you as well. So we talk about that in this episode. There's some great stories. Bill is a really funny guy in addition to being an incredibly talented musician and he does a lot of comedy shows. Eugene Merman has had him on his festival. He does Wesley Stakes's Cabinet of Wonders, which is a great show that kind of mixes comedians and writers and musicians and I always admired his stuff. I've always been a fan of Bill's works. It was great to be able to talk to him. He as you can see in this episode is a great fan of TV as well. We talk a lot about TV theme songs and I think I'd have to do the research here but I am pretty sure that Bill is my first guest to have actually written some TV theme songs, not just one but more than one. So I think you'll enjoy this episode. We talk about that so please enjoy this week's episode with my guest Mr. Bill Janovitz. Bill Janovitz, thank you so much for doing the show. Thanks for having me. You're very welcome. I wanted to talk to you because you've done some TV stuff that comes up on the show actually a few times. My soul called Life Notably and we've done some music for TV stuff as well. That's right. I did a theme song for this old house most recently and I did one for Yes Dear. Yes. Michael Malley. Did you know those guys before? I knew Mike. So in fact Mike's first show was kind of a big sort of Hollywood mess. Okay excellent. He had exactly one show on I think it's called the Michael Malley show. Although predated he had a game show called Guts. Well yeah no he was a star. Yeah yeah. Don't get it wrong and he and I go back to right before the Michael Malley show started so 98.99. He was a fan of the band and we knew I think I had known a little bit of his ESPN promos. So he's kind of a that was that really attracted him. I thought those were hilarious and so he asked Buffalo Tom to do the theme to the Michael Malley show. It got canceled very quickly but it had Will Arnett on the show. That show had a really kind of ahead of its time. Yes and when we were kind of we'll get into the actual dates of the CV Guide you picked but you kind of grew up in the era of the theme song in a lot of ways. I think a lot of the shows that you picked. Yeah you know in fact it's funny because when Greg Garcia and Mike you know sort of Greg Garcia the creator of Yes Dear said you know we really want a theme song that tells the story of the show like a classic theme song that no one has anymore. Exactly and he said I know just the guy and Mike said and so I did the we went back and forth on the lyrics as you would expect with a producer of a TV show about like tweaking it and yeah my lyrics are absolutely ridiculous but it kind of encapsulated I think the plot of the show. Did they just explain the plot to you and then you're like no no I think I got it. Actually Yes Dear had already been on for a while. Oh and then the theme song. Yeah the kind of a generic instrumental kind of theme vibe going on. So they rose and it. Yeah exactly kind of retro. Yeah yeah yeah. So we're gonna be on for a while we get a little bit of a budget. Yeah now we can get a little theme song going. So that must be because that show re-ears a lot and do you have a flip through and just kind of. Yeah you're sure. Oh yeah well I mean uh uh you know quarterly the BMI check comes in. Oh yeah great still on. Yeah yeah yeah. So that must be really cool to be part of sort of the pantheon of of television history in that way if we're growing up with with sitcoms and whatnot. You grew up in the Boston area correct. I actually grew up in New York. Okay yeah on Long Island. Until I was in high school I moved up here to Medfield Massachusetts. Okay yes. 16. You were watching probably were you in the city in New York a lot when you were growing up. Yeah a little but not a lot. I mean you know we were out in Huntington Long Island which is North Shore about 40 minutes out but once I was you know we'd go in like once or twice a year. Right. My grandparents lived closer in like you know to the Somerville you know. Yeah yeah yeah. I was born in Queens. So we'd go in there and we'd go to Shea Stadium and go see the games. Go my father would take me to see the next but it's not like we'd you know that was the era of uh well to put it uh impolently white flight. Yes that was uh that was the Warriors New York. Yeah exactly so we weren't really hanging out but my uncle moved back when I was like 13 from uh he was out in Hawaii but he ended up in the Lower East Side. Yep. We went it was being gentrified just in you know 78-79. Yep. So I would start to go in there when I was really into the city. Right. Right. So that must have been great because that so much stuff was set in New York in that era and so much stuff on television and it was um very sort of mythologized I think on TV a lot. So I you know I didn't go down there till I was probably maybe 16 when I was in a band. Uh-huh. It was it was long after anything interesting. Oh yeah. That was going but I grew up watching the same kind of stuff. So I was like it's the Warriors and escape from New York. Right. Yeah. Isn't it all. Exactly. Well you know when Buffalo Tom first started going down there in 88-89 playing uh it was interesting for sure but that meant our drums were still and now we have to go find them right on the street. Some cracks hopefully some crack guy is selling them on the street. I'll revive them. I just want to have the opportunity to find them. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Because you because that was sort of New York at that time was sort of dance music. It was huge and then like hardcore. That's right. New York was a weird because I lived in New York briefly in 86 over the summer and it was a it wasn't like Boston which was a rock and roll. Yeah. You know it seems silly to say this but there was really only a couple of great clubs. I mean CDs but it was already kind of CB's was on the way out. Well it was more like a place where they have 18 bands. Yeah. Yeah. It was more of a showcase kind of thing. But you know as you're still thrilled to play there once we finally did. But there was a couple of doors. But it was past its Max's Kansas City era. Right. And it was it was sort of yeah like you say more the Danceteria. It was even that sort of was past its prime. So they were but they were really cool places. Like the first place I think we played in New York as Buffalo Tom was the Pyramid Club which was like a drag queen bar. Okay. Like you know down sort of just around Houston Street. Right. And that was pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. How very New York is that? Yeah. Exactly. You're loading your stuff in and there's girls dancing in the bar. Right. Right. Right. Now this is what we're talking about. And we don't have that. We never really had that in Boston. Boston always for for better or worse always kind of stayed the same. Yeah. You know but there were these cool little places. You had to sort of find them and Boston everything was just on a much smaller scale. Yeah. So in New York you could like stumble into a place on the west side. You had no idea. Right. Right. Then but Boston had Napoleon's you know that little sort of jazz thing. You know it really always wherever the gay guys were. Row is the sort of the most interesting part. They'd make it nice and there was interesting stuff going on there. That's how you know where to go. Right. You're growing up in New York. You're watching most of the TV probably a year you picked is actually July 1975 which you picked. So 74. Yeah. Yes it is. So July 1974. So you're still in New York at this time. Yeah. And you moved to Boston in 1982. Yeah. So a lot of this stuff is New York Centric to a lot of the stuff that the shows that are here are mostly set at there at the time. Did you connect with that at all? Oh for sure. But you know when you grow up in New York you think that that's the whole it's like I guess it's sort of like growing up in LA. You just think that that's the you know you take it for everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We got two baseball teams. We got two hockey teams. We got two football teams. You know you can go anywhere at any time of the day. Yeah. Yeah. But it wasn't like I mean I remember when we finally went out to LA like I had never traveled off the East Coast until I was in the band really. Right. You know we'd go to Florida as kids or whatever. But when I finally got out to Beverly Hills and was like oh man it really is like that was the same way. I think it was the 30 when I went out to LA and I was like this is exactly actually what it is. Everything is here like this. It's very very strange. Yeah. And New York for some reason you don't get the same thing because you're like yeah it's New York. But in LA I'm like this is a very specific area that I recognize. Exactly. You remember the I don't know where was the welcome to Beverly Hills sign. What show was that? You like the sun's on sunset. There was in Beverly Hills 902 and L they would show it later. Yeah but I'm thinking it was also Beverly Hillbillies. Maybe. Maybe something I don't know. But Beverly Hills cop. I mean it's so iconic. Start seeing things and you go. Part of it is it's so decentralized. Yeah. Like all of a sudden you find yourself somewhere and you make this connection. Right. It's just sort of like growing running into the random celebrities. Right. I remember the first celebrity one of the first celebrities we saw aside from Fabio at the source every day was the guy that played Venus fly trap. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tim Reed. Tim Reed. Yeah. Yeah. I got the movie theater. Yeah. Just hanging out. No one cares about it. Yeah. Big deal. It's Tim Reed. No relation. Yeah. I feel like Venus can. Venus can. Yes. Actually someone told me once that I spell Reed quote the block away. Oh there you go. I was like thank you. Okay. Tim Reed very good actor. So you picked this week. It's just July 4th just happened. Oh it's in the real estate. Okay. So it's July, Saturday, July 5th. Okay. And what was the first thing you picked also? Maybe that explains you sort of weird time. You picked the central time zone. Yes Colorado which is very strange. But oh that's good. So during the summer I would obviously be allowed to stay up later. But the first we've so we went from Saturday. So Saturday the first show I noticed would be all in the family. Like everybody was watching. Right. Which you had to watch. And again very New York show. Right. And you have a couple brothers? I'm the oldest of five kids. Okay. I've got three brothers and a sister. So did you rule what would go on the television? No my parents pretty much ruled. Okay. You know my father would just make fun of us for watching sitcoms. The same way I roll my eyes when my kids are watching some crap on the Disney channels or something. Yeah. Which are just so like they're almost like parodies. Yeah. Oh they're completely silly. Yeah. It's a weird thing that I always kind of lament the loss of the three camera 70s sitcom because that in the 90s they became the realm of children. Right. Exclusively. Yeah. Like there is no three camera sitcoms for a family now. Right. It's very very strange because that was that was the model for so long. Yeah. It is really hard to do. And I think that's why people don't do it so much anymore. Yeah. It's just evolves. And there's you know I got a little sick of the faux documentary thing. Yeah. Some of these shows. You know like Modern Family. Now I'm watching these things with my kids. Right. And Modern Family was very interesting for the first couple of years. Wherever now I'm like okay. I get it. Let's move on to something else. But you know what's really good is blackish. Have you been watching blackish? No but is it good? Oh no that isn't really good. It's hilarious. Do you watch that with your kids? Yeah. Like that's you know I just now I'm just watching whatever's on whatever they whatever they have on. You know. You've come full circle. Yeah. And I'm like my dad. Yeah. I'm like the red socks are on. I'm gonna go down the basement. Watch the red socks. So yeah. I've that's caught me by surprise is kind of a funny thing. That's some of the stuff that struck you as good. Yeah. Because I tend to write off a lot of newer shows. Like I kind of stopped paying attention in the year 2000. Yeah. And I've seen everything. Yeah. But yeah. Sometimes the show will hit me and I'll be like oh this is actually really good. And you go through stages in life or at least I have where it's like I was talking about this with my wife before I came over tonight. I'm like well when did I watch TV? I watched it like non-stop in the 70s. Yeah. And they were only the you know and without the cliches it was only those channels that everybody watched. And it was really events driven. Oh yeah. It was like everybody would come into school and talk about the show. It was a shared experience that everybody had. Especially when it was like Christmas specials and any event TV. Yeah. So we'd talk about whatever it was and then and then you know then I got into the 80s in college for me. So when you get into the college years you're sort of kind of capable. You know. Everything becomes decentralized or whatever. You might stay up and watch S&L. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Actually the S&L years I didn't really see a lot during the 80s. Until maybe the later 80s. And then the 90s when the side phone came back on you know that that you get back in. Yeah. Yeah. When did you start the band? 84? The bands were 86. 86. Okay. So you're probably not watching that much stuff during that time either. No. From like 86 to you know 99 I wasn't watching a whole lot of TV but when we were home we'd be home for like weeks at a time. Not a month at a time. Right. So that's when Seinfeld started. And I remember seeing I remember wanting to see Seinfeld debut and I think I watched the debut because I was a fan of him as a stand-up. Right. Right. As a kid on Carson. Oh yeah. He was on so much. So many things people forget like he was on TV a lot. Like he was pretty much on TV every week doing stand-up. Right. Something. Yeah. And it was I loved that school that Gary Shandling sort of post David Brenner. Right. Idea of comedy. The observational. You know. Yeah. Not quite. I mean I loved Garland as well of course but I just love those sort of regular. And he was a Massapequa boy from Ohio. Right. But he was a little too edgy almost. Like Seinfeld and yeah. They were kind of more regular guys like Garland was a guy who was kind of like I got something to say. Yeah. Yeah. Which I totally was into as a rock and roller as well. Right. But you know Seinfeld we would watch as as a family. Yeah. You're not gonna get scared that he's gonna go off with the rails talking about the man or something. Right. Right. Right. Right. So but yeah. We would watch and I heard you talking recently I forget to whom about all in the family and and watching it for different reasons. Right. Right. Kind of missing the point. Yeah. Like my dad would would be like that Archie Bunk is a real hero. Yeah. And he went like oh no. And that's not what you're supposed to get out of it. Yeah. My dad just loved the fact that somebody could be so politically incorrect on TV. Yeah. And it wasn't necessarily that he subscribed to those beliefs. Although I'm sure there was quite a bit of overlap. Yeah. Because that's a generational thing too. Yeah. But it's like yeah lampooning. But he you know he here's a guy that grew up as working class in New York. So my father completely that was and yeah. And to me I mean you know Carol O'Connor seemed so old as did. Maureen Maureen Stapleton. Yeah. Maureen Stapleton. Yeah. Or Gene Stapleton. I think was it Maureen Stapleton? No Gene Stapleton. Gene Stapleton. She tells Maureen Stapleton. Sister. Yes. Okay. All right. Yeah. She was a theater actress. And they were obviously very accomplished and normally was pushing. Yeah. But they seem grandparenty almost. They were. Yeah. They really seemed like my grand. Because I'm the oldest of five. So my parents were all. I mean by the time we moved from New York they were only 39. Yeah. You know they were they were kids to me. Yeah. You're not looking at Carol O'Connor being like yeah it's just like yeah he's like my grandfather. Yeah. And and I did have an Italian grandfather who was a lot like that. That was mine. Yeah. That was mine was a was an angry Norwegian man. Oh yeah. There you go. Yeah. But you know we talked about theme songs. Great theme songs. The intro and the outro. Two different songs. Yeah. And in sort of one of those songs that is grating and an unpleasant song in a lot of ways. But also in somehow manner just to be warm and endearing at the same time. Because it seemed like broken. Yeah. Absolutely. But then that nice ragtime outro thing which has a bit of melon collie. Yes. And you know classic Norman Leer style. Yeah. And it's the ending and you're like oh it's getting to be near bedtime or whatever. Yeah. It's the you know it's time to go you know and that nice little outro music. So that show never felt too old for you. Like you weren't like oh this is an adult show. No. No. And I think the most successful shows of that era appealed to multi-generations for different like we said with different reasons. Not just like oh here's the bigot that we're lampooning but some bigots are identifying with them as bigots. I'd be more like there are you know layers of jokes. Yeah. And that was also a very gray show. Not you know visually but there you know you Archie Booker wasn't just a villain that you laughed at. Like he was a guy who had like kind of sweet motivation sometimes. Yeah. And he was a good guy actually. Yeah. You know when it was kind of odd to see this person who was like exact had these had these enduring ideas. But endearing qualities. Right. And that was kind of the complicated thing that I think Norman Leer really did well and kind of brought to television at that time for sure. Yeah because he played him off as a guy who was just ignorant. Yes. As opposed to hateful. Right. For you know having having a certain intelligence behind him is more like we laughed at him because he doesn't know any better. He feared what he didn't know was the kind of thing. Right. Right. Exactly. And as a kid so 74 I would have been eight years old right. 74 or 75. Yeah. So I would have been eight years old. And it was sort of more of like you didn't need to understand it completely. You just understood it as like well this is the agenda. Right. This is what the cultural agenda is. What's going on right now. This is what I should be learning about soon as I get older. Yeah. Would you talk about those things with your family because there's definitely some episodes of that show that are pretty heavy. And I imagine would you know spark some conversations in the family. That's a good question. I don't recall anything aside from well you know that's funny because of this. But it's no it wasn't like we would have discussion groups after. Right. Well I mentioned like the like the episode where there's the attempted rape. Oh yeah. It's brutal. That episode's brutal and they don't warn you. And I imagine you're sitting down as a family to watch this and you're eight and nine years old. Yeah. And you're going to be like well hey mom what happened. That's a good question. I don't I don't remember. Those I remember sitting in front of the TV in various circumstances but not all the time. Like my father was working late and right. So it wasn't always like we would all be at the table at the table at the table at the table at the same time. Right. Right. Right. Right. Did you ever have to negotiate with your siblings? Was there like a show that you insisted on watching that they were just like I am not watching that show. Another good question. I don't remember. I mean I think we watched. No the only the only time I remember this becoming more of an issue is like when VCRs started coming out and that's how old I am. I remember when the VCRs that come out and having to beg my younger brothers and sister to stop watching the same thing over and over and over again. That was like so far into me just watch it. Yeah you'd have the whatever and you'd watch the Muppet movie for the 50th time that we've seen this. Yeah that's a huge generational difference that you probably noticed with your kids too and a lot of my friends that have kids their kids will just watch the same thing over and over. They're like this is the one not even the show the episode that I like and I watch it over and over and we didn't really have that option. No. And you had a totally different mindset because stuff was not disposable but you almost appreciated when it came on more. Yeah. And tended to expose yourself to more things I think. Yeah and you know there's also and maybe this I think this ties together is that I think people younger. So I'm 48 so let's say people that are 40 or younger even. I find that there's a lot more quoting of movies because I think they watched movies over and over again whereas we would see movie once and maybe we'd see it again in six months. Yeah I might play on TV again later. Yeah yeah this was like a Bill Simmons school of like knowing all the Shawshank stuff you know like I that's so foreign to me I saw Shawshank but I mean my problem is I also have a very bad memory so well I could see the godfather every year which I do right and it's almost new to me right right. Well that's a pretty good thing now you're watching like a goldfish. Yeah but it's like wheel out the old man. What is this movie? Just telling me he hasn't seen him. Yeah yeah he'll never know he'll never know just tell him it just came out. Yeah so 830 what'd you go with? 830 I went right into the Jefferson's you know you kind of have to go with that. Yeah and that was the successful spin-off kind of era and the Jefferson's to me that was probably even more in my wheelhouse because it was just way more it was broader. Yeah it was much broader. Yeah and they didn't really do issues that much. I mean they had like the the mixed race couple. Yeah and you know some of that stuff but it was it was definitely a broader. Yeah the drunk doorman. Yeah and the yelling and yeah but plus the the great moving on up theme song. That is one of the best songs. It is. Absolutely yeah. There's a mystery in the good times theme song. I think you pick good times later in the week. Yeah but there's a line in there. Yeah don't ask me it's a song. Any time you need a payment. Yes. Easy credit rip off. Easy credit rip off and then uh and then it goes hanging in a job and I've never met anyone. Is it hanging in a job? Hanging in a jar and hanging in a joyous. I think it's a hang hang in and what is that? What is that? That was a jabbing. That was a jabbing. Hanging in a job line. You don't have to pull it out. No one I've never been able to have anyone definitively say what that is. That's like a magic eye of lyrics. That's what it's like whatever it's whatever you want it to be. Well yes the answer is contained therein. Yes. If you think it is that's what it is. Exactly. So were you doing music at this time at all? When did you start getting? Yeah well I was already sort of playing trumpet I guess right around this time. You know in the school band kind of thing and I really got very good at that for you know for that level of elementary school thing. I was like well this is wow this is probably the best trumpet player in the school. Yeah I'm up there. I may be one or two but yeah and then you know a couple of years later I picked up the guitar. So by the time I was 12 it was guitar. Right. Right. Pretty much switched right over. Were you watching a lot of the music stuff on TV when you were around folks? Yeah like special would be on. Yeah even though I may not have been playing rock and roll. I mean if when people ask me what I wanted to do I just you know like by the time you're 18 you say you want to be in a rock star. Right. It's no longer funny or charming. It's like yeah okay but what are you gonna go to school for? Firemen. Right. And I was pragmatic to a fault enough I think where I was like I'm not going to Berkeley. It's that's not. I don't want to be like jazz. Yeah. No guy. You know whatever. I don't want to work music to the center. Like yeah I'm not just like engineer type either. So I want to join a band and anyway but I always knew that I mean I was always fascinated with that but so yeah the the show like Soul Train. Yep. And you know when I was able to stay up and watch the Wolfman. Jack. That show was so weird because special yeah any stuff like that was like you never knew where you're going to get on it though too. Like Midnight Special they would allow the band a lot of times the band to curate the show. So I remember the one that the cars hosted. Oh wow. And they had suicide on it. They did. Yeah I never heard that. It's really bizarre. It was like because then the next week it would be like Fog Hat. You know it just didn't it was such a weird mixture of things and you couldn't tune in going oh I know exactly what I'm getting genre-wise. Could be anything. That's that was great. I mean it was way more limited so like you lived for those like for people that wanted to see live music and couldn't go to concerts yet. Right. We lived for that kind of stuff. Yeah even American Bandstand which was pretty saccharin and kind of whitewash still had some pretty interesting stuff. Yeah and by the time Saturday Night Live came around I mean that was so that what year that that kind of 75. Yeah. And I feel like I was staying up for all of those. I mean yeah there's some that I don't remember seeing live like fear the band. That was 1980 they were on. Yeah so maybe uh well I don't know what it would have been. That was after the first cast left and John Belushi was actually read before he died. Yeah. He came back he agreed to do a guest spot on the show. Yeah. Because they really needed the ratings boost. Yeah. His condition was that fear come on with him. Yeah which and they did like a 20 minutes. I mean McKay was there. Was it? He was slammed dancing. It was crazy. It was completely crazy. We used to have that on our tour bus. We had some we had some great old tapes and that was one of them. But yeah I mean that was one of my big musical educators. You know and I got to meet. I did this tour called The Lost Songs of Lennon and McCartney where we put out this record. There's a local producer named Jim Sampas who put together this record. The Lost Songs of Lennon McCartney and on it were aside from me Kate Pearson from the B-52. Yep. And Graham Parker and this great band including Duke Levine nearby and David Maddox. Amazing assemblage of people that I am not worthy. I really felt like because it was already when I started working a day job in Buffalo Tom was taking a break. I was like okay this is like me going back to like a rock fantasy camp. Right right right. So I'm singing at the same microphone Graham Parker. Anyway the reason that this was so one of I told those guys because we went on the road with with Graham and Kate. Yeah with a band not with not with the local guys but with with another backing band of some great guys as well. But with Kate and Graham and I was like sitting in a van and every day I would turn around and go you know I saw you guys both for the first time when I remember seeing the Rockwell officer and I was 12 years old just going this is insane. Yeah this is incredible. Oh absolutely. We're seeing Graham Parker and hearing local girls when I was you know just kind of like yeah sure. Yeah yeah. Okay young young man. Yeah right. Well like hearing you know seeing Divo on there and Bowie with Klaus Nomi and Divo doing satisfaction. Bowie but also Gary Newman the first time we said Gary Newman. Yeah yeah just those new wave crazy stuff. Whoa this is this is yeah. You never see. And I think a lot of people too were like first exposed to you guys from my so-called life. Right. That was the same way. Yeah. We were in the pivotal episode where she finally played it night plays. Yeah where she kisses you. They're building up the whole thing. Okay. They're gonna go see Buffalo Top. Yeah yeah yeah. And when the joke was at the time it's like how much did we pay per mention of Buffalo Top. Right because it's very other word than the show. Yeah. And it was like couldn't have been any better for us you know. Did they just come to you and say we want you to do this. Yeah you know they had Julianna Hatfield. She was in an episode as an angel. As an angel. Yeah almost angel. Yeah and I think they you know it's like it was like the peak of the 90s where where the music we were part of. Yeah Boston was the ground zero first. Yeah and all but all these bands like Sonic Youth or whomever else it was just like you just had no idea like the bands that you were playing with a couple of years ago in a club or now having major hits. Right. Right. Right. And a lot of it was because the sort of the whole zeitgeist had moved in that sort of alternative quote unquote direction. Right. Thanks a lot to in part to MTV. And but the producer so what it was was really just a coming of age for a lot of people like us that were like people that we had met back in college. Right. Or in college radio when we started out we're now in positions of power. Right. I see. So it was what they associated with that time. I think so. Yeah there was like we were banding you know it was like there was a real kind of let's let's let's get the bands that we want. Right. The real bands they would listen to or these kids would actually listen to. Exactly. And it was like it was also a rebellion against sort of that that corporate hair metal thing. It was more real I guess in a way. Oh yeah it seemed absolutely perfect. Right. Like it was nothing that seemed you know when you see a band play in a TV show. Yeah you know it'd be like chochie. Yeah. You know it just would never seem like a real band. Even if it was a real band. Right. Like I remember Divo was on the show Square Pigs. Right. And I loved. The Dubu brothers were on. I loved Divo and it didn't it didn't work. Yeah. It was like it didn't seem real and that one seemed like oh yeah this is the concert. Right. Yeah. But just the funny the thing that the high school kids could be at some club where we play. Yeah. That's not going to happen. Yeah. Exactly. Suburban Pittsburgh has no idea loss. Yeah. I have a funny story about I think it was soon after that. Did we talk about this in an email or anything but about Catwalk? We may have. Yeah. Yeah. So I had seen the show and this is a show that my wife and I would see on like Sunday. It would be a syndication thing like right Sunday at six on Channel 56 or like you know some other cable channel and you'd just go oh this is funny because this is like the the Canadian corporate TV thing of what a band when an alternative band would be. Absolutely. Yeah. And we would just goof on it and so one day I managed. It was almost like a dramatic version of there was a sketch on the Ben Stiller show called The Grungees. Oh yeah. It was like a version of the monkeys with a grunge band. It was like a dramatic version of that basically. Yeah. It was and it was very overdramatic. Yeah. And they would they would say things like well it was sort of like Melrose Place in a band. Yeah. Yeah. It was all about just a setting for romance or whatever but it was all you know about it. My integrity man. Yeah. And looking to sell out man. And the band dynamic. Yeah. And so we but one day of course we got a call from our manager saying hey they want you to be on the show catalog. I'm like no no no no we're not doing it. Of all the show. No you're not doing it. I said it's just have you seen it? Yeah. Oh no. I haven't seen it. It's a ridiculous show. I said no. I don't know how many times. And then one day I got a call and we were on tour and it was Danny Goldberg who met who managed Nirvana and became the head of Wea Records with Warner Electra Atlantic. And I'm in a hotel motel. There's you know some cheesy motel room in Indianapolis. My phone rings. It's a Dale at Danny Goldberg. What is it really? Why are you why are you calling me here Danny? Listen. I know you're I know Tommy talked to you about doing catwalk and I think you should MTV's behind this show and I'm like oh I don't. I said Danny have you seen the show? Listen Bill. I know it's not Shakespeare. But you get us on Shakespeare. But it would be really helpful for you at MTV. And I go are you saying that they won't play our videos at MTV? Because Bill. MTV is not the mafia. Yeah. They're not going to break your legs. But it's not going to hurt you to do this show. Right. Right. Right. So we did this show and it was you know and they were really nice. Is that for Toronto or something? Yeah. I think there was in Toronto and they were all very nice people that came to our show. We did a show at Lee's Palace or something up there. And they were all hanging and drinking and having a good time to cast members and everything. Well cut the long story short. We were at this club out in San Francisco at Slim's and our drummer was sick. Tommy McGinnis and so Chris and I decided to do this show anyway as a duo. We said listen if you want your money back. But it was a really kind of a low time because we didn't really know what was happening with Tom. He was really ill. Right. And so we were concerned but we were doing the show. We didn't want to cancel. So we yeah most people stayed and this guy held up this sign in the middle of the crowd as we're playing. And I ignored it for a little while. But then I just like I had acknowledged it and just said he's gone. Bill. Bill. Bill. Excuse me Bill. So I look at it and it just says catwalk period. Why? Question mark. And you're like I knew this day would come. This guy made a sign. Got it to the club. This must have really hurt him. He's like I drove here from Ohio to ask you this question. And then you could be like why did you watch it? And it was a pre-email. He could have just emailed him. He could have waited after the show or any like that. Has anyone since then? Because I've never even seen that episode and I've seen most things. Yeah I don't even remember us what it was like. I remember. No I don't I don't remember anybody saying yeah catwalk but my son of a wife. Yeah they definitely no one was asking why for that. Oh no and that was great and we loved doing it and my wife was already a big fan of the show. Yeah. So it had this really cult status already and too bad it you know had the end it did but it has lived on. Oh absolutely. Yeah. And we we instantly saw more females at our show. Oh I bet. And you're on the soundtrack from no females to like 7%. So did jerk I think was on the soundtrack. So did jerk and and late at night. There might have been one on the track but I think those two certainly were on. Till lights fade was later I always associate that song with the show. That was actually earlier but it wasn't they wasn't going with our current record which was right at the time. Big red letter day was the name of the album. Did you play on the no alternative special? Yeah that was a big thing too. Yeah I remember seeing you on MTV for that. That was probably 93. I want to finish the year before my so-called life. Because they had a huge special to launch that album which is an amazing record. Yeah we're on that special. Yeah and it was a great record. It was really great opportunity to be part of that and like you look at the list of bands Nirvana Smashing Pumpkins Whole. Oh yeah. You know every it was like lemonade all these great Pearl Jam. It was it was just sort of a whole slew of time. Yeah. And you guys played live on that. I think that's the first time I remember seeing you on TV. Oh yeah. Yeah. Which is where I was like oh it's Buffalo Tom. Yeah. Yeah. From the alternative. Yeah. There you go. So was there a band that you was your like absolute favorite band that you saw on TV first for the first time or I assume you were probably exposed to most stuff from radio. But yeah it's you know it's obviously I'm too old to see the Beatles live. Right. When that happened. But not wings. You know it was probably I mean a real band. I don't I couldn't I couldn't remember. I certainly was a big fan of the Monkeys. Yeah. And the Jackson 5. I saw a little blast here. It was unbelievable. Oh yeah. Really good at Johnny D's. I saw him at the song at the theater and I saw him at the theater run. And Shirley. Oh yeah. I think I was so good. I think I was out of town for that. I should have. I don't know why I wouldn't have been at the Summerville. Yeah. That was so that was pretty formative. And so you know we I was in that next wave where rock and roll was taken for granted. Right. So the early 70s the Jackson 5 had a cartoon. Yeah. The Beatles had a cartoon for a little while. Kiss met the Phantom of the Park. Yeah. Exactly. Because I don't I my brother Paul is really into kids. I just thought they were a cartoon. Kiss was like wrestling to me. Yeah. That brings it to the issue that you picked because instantly it's Tony Orlando and Don on the cover and you. Yes. Yes. This one. Yeah. And you know I also I love about the actual issue that you have there is like one of the the main things you that you thumb across you that stops your thumbing anyway is an ad for eight tracks in the Columbia. Yes. For a penny either eight for a penny. Yeah. And that really ties together in my in my association my brain with Tony Orlando and Don because my mom had like you know my parents went out and got the stereo system which was you know like the Sears speakers connected to this to the to the eight track player. And I used to listen to let's get small John Denver the carpenters Elvis Aloha from Hawaii from Hawaii so I widely watched television show of all time all on all on a track and then my my mom had Tony Orlando and Don which I I would listen to it over and over again the tire yellow ribbon but also gyps you. Because he's almost like a forgotten act now like no one really name checks him and he wasn't only just big musically I mean he had the biggest variety shows on television at this time. Variety shows were what it was all about. I guess it was still I don't know if there was ever a discontinued discontinuum if that's a word from the 60s or if it just was a continuum all the way from you know the other days or not but yeah you know they were so cheap to produce obviously but everybody I mean Johnny Cash I remember Tony Orlando Johnny Marie Pink Lady and Jeff and Lady and Jeff want to be produced by the um Sid and Marty Croft. Is that right? The Croft brothers made you could just see that corporate board him. Let's get like we need we've got an option on this guy Jeff Altman. These women don't speak English but they're big in Japan. They're big in Japan. Let's put them together. The Brady kids variety hour. I don't remember that at three years after the Brady bunch was canceled. Yeah they had a thing called the Brady kids variety hour. It was a special or was a show. It was a weekly show hosted by the Brady kids except they had a fake Marsha because she was not in it. I will not be part of it. I mean it's a fake jam. One of them wasn't the real one and it was just variety show. It was them hosting singing that's when they did stuff like Sunshine Day. Well I remember that from the actual show. They do it every week as they're opening of course silver platters. Yeah it was ridiculous. It was ridiculous. I was like okay we've reached the Brady bunch hour. It was really you know the 70s was such a bad time I guess economically and and crisis wise and politically that it was just pure there was so much pure escapism. Yeah and one of my favorite things about Don is that Telma Hopkins was in Don who was a big actress on television in the 80s after that. She was on give me a break. She played no Carter's best friend. Oh yes she was the Anton family matters. Just was in all kinds of stuff. Which is very very weird. Yeah I'm like oh it's it's Telma Hopkins from Devon. I mean that was they had good comic timing and reparté between them you know. Absolutely. Yeah Sonny and Jeremy. Donnie and Marie not so much. This year I rewatched the... Oh not Sonny and Cher. I know Tony and Larry are done. Tony and Larry are done. Yeah yeah yeah. But certainly Sonny and Cher. Yeah but the the osmons not so much. They were maybe my least out of the ride. Yeah so square. Creepy and weird. Oh it's just there. I rewatched their Christmas special this year and it was all the osmons. Yeah. And my god was that was that terrifying. Yeah they were like trapped in a cabin and whoever the youngest one was that they were it was like always the butt of jokes. I recently saw Jimmy. Jimmy Osmond. I recently saw the Linda Carter thing that's going around where she does. From 79 and 80. Bet Midler. Yeah. I don't remember that happening in real time either. She only did the two specials but then you had um oh what's her name from Viva Las Vegas and Margaret had a ton of specials at that time too. She was in the late. Oh she still looks great. Yeah but late 70s early 80s around the same time as Linda Carter. That's when we went into the 80s into the solid gold era if you will. Yeah yeah. They started just giving variety shows to like attractive women and that was it. And Linda I mean Linda Carter then and watching it in hindsight I'm just like still. Oh stunning. Yeah that so many children just became adults watching that show instant. She took my virginity somehow. Somehow. Mentally my mentoring. So Sunday night what a job would you go with? Sunday night. All right we're on night too. I would watch Wild Kingdom with Bertina Burgess Meredith. What was his name? Meredith. I'd love Burch Smardess if he did Wild Kingdom. Now who is the guy with the mustache? Oh yes Meredith. Let me see if they list him here. Wild Kingdom. No it doesn't but it does say odd creatures in the animal kingdom are shown including a two headed snake and a lizard that walks on water. How could you not watch it? Yeah that does sound pretty good. That's very replace believe it or not. So yeah we watched that and that and to me that flows right into Disney's the world of Disney it was and so we would just I remember just watching that. You never knew what you're going to get with that. It was sometimes it was movies sometimes it was like old cartoons. Right. It was a very weird it's just basically scraping their archive. Yeah whatever we have. Yeah and this one's very strange a young kayak enthusiast. Which I guess I didn't get the description. Brave's treacherous white water rapids in this is a great name for a show though which I don't think you could live out to this. Adventures in Satan's Canyon. Oh well see. The youth is on a mission to get help for his coach who has been seriously injured on their trip downstream filmed on location along California's stimulus river. Richard J. Cole and David Allen Bailey started that huh. I don't know if I would have watched that. But I probably would have because I remember a lot of canyon stuff back in the last days. Right. So there was there was evil, couldn't evil jump in that snake river canyon. Yeah that's right. Yeah that's right. Yeah it was very popular. There was a lot of like yeah yeah. Bronson Canyon got a lot of use in uh in the California. And you know did they ever speaking of Dan Hagerty and and grizzly Adams you know the big thing. Let's talk about repackaging and using your stars over and over again was the battle of the network stars. Yes. Yes. Which did they ever try to. That seems like something we've tried to breathe. Yeah breathe. I've thought that for years. So I've actually had two guests on who who were on battle the network stars. Oh really. Which fascinated me. So Melanie Chardoff was on it in 1980 when she was on Fridays and Oh yeah Melanie Chardoff. Tom Selleck. Oh wow. And Joanne Willette was on the very last one in '88. Wow. And uh it didn't go well but they actually got they got paid if they won. So it was like a real let go on for it. A lot of them were like oh I'll donate it to charity but they'd get like 2,500 bucks on me. But that's why a lot of them if you knowing that now I've rewatched them and I'm like oh yeah they're really trying to get that money. They really want that. And that in circus of the stars. I'm like those two things I can't imagine. But it has to be some sort of like in the library of shooters. Yeah because circus of the stars they got battered around. I mean they were heads and lions mouths. I was watching a little bit of that on YouTube in the last couple of years and it's like Billy Crystal is dead serious about it. Oh absolutely. People out there sweating out there like running like pelican. Yeah because he was on soap at the time. Yeah so I'm really going to beat you. Yeah yeah yeah. And if you had a macho man like Robert Conrad on there. Forget it. He was going to whip you into shape. Yeah I loved better than network stars. It was weird seeing those bizarre mixes of people. Like it's grizzly Adams fighting Cheryl Lamb. Well yeah and plus you got to see you know like Suzanne Summers running around in a tank top you know. The word on the street is from a good authority of people who participated that they had a no-pros rule of network specified. Whether it be Dan Hagerty or not. Yes anyone's actually that was actually speaking of event TV. I remember you know guys at a my age all remember seeing that one where Dan Hagerty was sitting in the in the dunk booth and he could flex his pecs. Yes yes like ultimately and we're like well that's the first time any of us had seen him let the bodybuilders weren't on TV very often. Yeah and then it all was insane. I used to love and do more push-ups. Yeah I got to get these muscles. They used to show a thing on ESPN that was like the world's strongest man competitions. Yes and they were the most bizarre thing I've ever seen. And when you pull a car and stuff like that. Or like do a squat a platform with ladies on it and like have to throw a yeah throw a car. Right right right right. Lift a building. But those that was the good days of like wide world of sports where they'd be like oh yeah guys wiping out on the ski jump. They'd show anything too. Like I one of my other odd hobbies is collecting VHS and beta tapes that people taped off TV and then transferring them to DVD and kind of visiting stuff. And I recently got a tape of the world belly flop championship that aired on wide world of sports in like 1979. I'm like this was two hours on a Saturday the show in the belly flop championship. It's like what do we live in the 19 in the gay 90s. Yeah big a stock car in the world. It's like very very carny like. Yeah right. But it's a tough time. And then so you're going right into that and then what was your next pick. Cojack. So you see and you love these like no worries. Yeah you know. And I remember in college some friends who got really intentional film noir as a you know as a subject or whatever. Right. Going back and and and seeing things like that that 70s noir period where you know it's streets of San Francisco, Cojack. Even the Taylor to rude 66 had that kind of thing. I never really saw that one. Yeah night stalker. Cojack. I never saw that either. But what a banach check. Was that one? Yeah. Yeah. What's the one with rookies? Was that I remember the rookies in here somewhere too. But I remember that being noir or not. I was more LA-ish that reminded me more of like Adam 12 and untouchables. Yeah. Yeah. So that's almost like that. No. No. No. I feel it more a lot of type of stuff you know. Yeah. Yeah. Like Rockford Files. He was. Yeah. Rockford Files. But that was humor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he had that great repartee. That was almost early sort of moon moon lighting. Moon lighting. Yeah. Absolutely. But Cojack was pretty hard. Cojack was. But it was also. Oh. Beretta. That was another one. Beretta. Yeah. So that's just bad. Yeah. It was sort of like Scorsesey Meet. You know comes to TV. Yeah. French. French connection. They really were. Absolutely. Yeah. It was all New York. It was all big. Just sedans. Yeah. And as the beasties. I remember the beasties said if you give you if you the beastie boys if you pull up your car right up in front of the club it's a Cojack's. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Just no one even. That's an out of the Cojack. And this Cojack episode is the owner of a plastics company adds homicide to arson. I just like the way that's phrased and homicide to arson when his partner refuses to go along with a plan to have their building set a fire. There you go. Yeah. They didn't want to be wondering who got off. Yeah. His partner Alex Rocco is in it who is a Boston scumbag Alex Rocco. He's from Charlestown. He actually inadvertently set off the Italian Irish Mafia Wars and had to move to California and became an actor inadvertently. Yes. He he was in a bar and he hit on one of the other mob bosses girlfriend. I don't know the story. Yeah. Alex Rocco. He played Joe's dad on Facts of Life. Oh wow. He was in the movie Freebie and the Bean. Oh he's Mo Green. Everything for you comes back to Facts of Life. It very much does. Yeah. That was sort of your Kevin Bacon. Yeah. A little bit of my Kevin Bacon was the facts seven degrees effective. Yeah. I mean it was on for 10 years. Yeah. But that he was he was just this Boston actor and he has the most broad pulled man Boston accent. He's always cast as like a Brooklyn guy even though he's all like you know you're my hot like he doesn't sound anything like he's from Brooklyn. Wow. But he was in this and he was always the bad guy. All right. And an early role from Erica Strata in this one. Oh okay. Yeah. Now we're talking. He's playing henchman Luis. Of course he is. Yeah. I tell he's always always scared me. Yeah. I think from the players club ads. Yeah. Well he was he was even tougher in in Kojan. Yeah. You know he despite the lollipop. Yeah. No. That was his soft side. Right. Yeah. So you have to have a little soft side. Loves your baby. So I enjoyed those shows as well. I think that's a good pick. And then you're saying candid camera was on which was very exciting. Yeah. No candid camera was like you know anything bloopers or you know the early days of reality TV was that stuff was hilarious because you never got to see that stuff. And I can't yeah yeah until they did a whole show of that right with bloopers and protherists with Ed McMahon. Yeah. Once that came out I was so excited. Yeah. And then they ran out of bloopers. That was the thing. Yeah. Then you start creating bloopers. Yeah. But here was the weirdest thing. There was a guy who's I can never remember his last name. His first name was Kermit. And he's considered the father of the blooper. And what he used to do was put out these little paperback books of transcriptions of bloopers because you couldn't you know there's no videotapes. They didn't think this would be a show. So but people used to do huge sellers and people would read or be like Spock says Captain Crank. It was like someone telling you about a blooper but you paid for that privilege. And it was very popular. I remember going with a friend who's actually now my financial advisor down to the local library where kids just because they have those like sort of. They were like film cartridges. Microfilm. Microfilm where you pop into a machine. Is it microfiche? But it was an actual movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it would show you these movies and they were these NFL bloopers. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that was great. Well you'd see a guy do some crazy thing with a football. I had a an NFL bloopers tape hosted by Vincent Price. Wow. It was really bizarre. Yeah. That's when he was just taking anything. Yeah. Exactly. He would be like a terrifying tackle. Okay. That makes sense. I bought it at a I bought it at like some thrift store in Alston one day. There you go. Before a show I was like that sounds perfect. I can't not buy this. It's Vincent Price NFL bloopers. How is this the thing? I'd like to see the transcription of that. I would. I have the book. I have the novelization of the film. Like I've always I would get those because I would find them at flea markets and stuff all the time in the eighties. And I was like is this. Did people act them out? Were they reading these to each other or just sitting under your bag and bed with a flashlight and be like oh the table table reading bloopers will not be reading the bloopers. So Monday night would you go with Monday night was mod. Another great theme song. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. So mod was mod into that. It was followed by Rhoda. That was definitely you. All right. You started to see and are those both Lier things as well? Yeah. He owned TV. Oh absolutely. So except for Gary Marshall later on but yeah the the mod and wrote a stuff you really said that was like okay the women's live movement right. And it was very on the nose to you. Oh yeah. I mean the theme song. They had a good dive over the. Another Boston actor in that was was William who was mod's husband on the show. A little mod which is named Bill Macy but he was from Revere. Oh and he had a very broad Boston accent as well which is always very weird. I don't remember much. I just remember her. Her whole thing was the deadpan. Yes. Absolutely. Take that. Yeah. And comrade. For those of you who are listening at home. I'm doing a deadpan. Doing a deadpan. It was very good. Thank you. It was very very good. The transcription. Very funny show. Really always had some heavy topics plus Adrian Barbo. Oh there you go. Another one. Yeah. I think you're detecting a theme here with me. Yes. Yes. You're not alone my friends. You're not alone. Adrian Barbo. Very popular. This one is very exciting. After a psychic tells her that she will marry again. Mod is convinced that her marriage is doomed so she decides to fulfill the prophecy by remarrying Walter. We've all been there. I mean we're both married. That's happening. I mean psychic. Get that psychic. I mean part of it was like me watching that going this it's mods and no offense to be Arthur but it was just so so absence of sex. Yeah absent. Yeah sex. It was just a sexless show. Which is part of the joke. Yeah. Because you have Adrian Barbo is like a kind of a sex pod. Well yeah they had a thrower in there. Yeah. But then the show would be like abortions came up on that show like four times and like this a lot of sex talk but seemed very. So now you're 34. Yeah. Do you remember watching this or you watch it later? I would watch it later. So I'd watch it on. I'm like the the reruns and stuff. Oh okay. I met Norman Lear a couple of years. Well it's probably about almost 10 years ago. Yeah. And at the HBO Aspen Comedy Festival. Yeah. And he was one of the few people that I was really just like oh my god. And he is. I heard him on Mark Marin's thing and he's so sharp. Is there 97 years old? Yeah. Yeah. Incredible mind. Yeah. And he didn't he write for or was he came out of the show or shows? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He was in that whole group. Yeah. Amazing crew. Yeah. And just the stuff the the kinds of people he was able to get on television and like you know blue collar people who didn't really have shows where they were the main character. They might have been like a joke character. Right. Was amazing. And I remember saying oh Mr. Lear I'm sorry to bother you. He goes you already have. I was like all right I'm only getting my picture with you. I don't really care. But it was right when when oh my god I'm blanking on the Comedy Central Dave Chappelle. Right when Dave Chappelle had like lost his mind everybody said and he could have shown went to Africa. Yeah. He'd been missing for months and he showed up at this Comedy Festival. Yeah. And we're all kind of standing around and someone's like Chappelle just showed up and he's doing stand up in this tent. He was like midnight. Yeah. So everybody goes there and Norman Lear is there. Yeah. And Chappelle's just on stage just kind of chatting and Norman Lear goes I'm the oldest, widest person in here and you're fucking funny. And so then he just started talking across this room to Norman Lear for like two hours. He knew he knew it. He goes oh man that's Norman Lear. Wow. It was just we all stood there like oh my god. It was just sort of yeah religious so bizarre. Yeah. Like a revival tent. It was the first time I was present for something that was in papers the next day because like yeah people who thought it was like the return of Dave Chappelle and he told people the real story and I was like I guess we were there for this. Wow. It was very, very cool. But yeah that was the only time Norman Lear is like wow this is the man who really is. Yeah. I mean television would not be remotely the same. He really went out there and took the chances and I've heard I guess maybe it was in that same interview. He's just talking about like he's just doing it. Don't don't get approval. He just put it for forgiveness. Yeah. And I mean he was constantly fighting with the with everybody. He's like no oh did you say I couldn't do that. I forgot. Yeah. Even after having the success. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He made money but they were like we don't want this. Right. Just this. People don't appreciate the stuff he got away with. Oh yeah. I mean it was for the times was crazy. Yeah. So that's that whole Monday night on Tuesday what are you going with? On Tuesday I like what I was really surprised to find was that happy days was up against good times because I was watching both of those shows but maybe this is because it's the summer. It could be. I mean I think they move the times around a little bit too on these. Like because don't they you know with two shows like that where you're trying to go for basically the broadest segment would you actually I know you you want a same audience. Yeah. Like at certain point you just go okay you know what happy days. I don't know but maybe happy days just started in the 74. I think happy days had started a little bit before that they both kind of started around this time so they may not have been the powerhouses that they were. So I would have watched both of those shows but would you have looked if I had to choose one that night in 74 if I'm being honest I probably would have chosen happy days though. I'm not surprised given your rock and roll affinity. Well and you know I looked kind of like Richie Cunningham. Yeah. Yeah. This particular episode is Fonzie offers to get tuxedos for Richie's rock band provided that he can join the group as their bongo player. Oh I remember the bongo part. I don't I was gonna say I don't remember the band but then I remember Fonzie getting the bongo's. Yeah. People in sitcom seem to have bands like just intermittently. Like if it meant the plot near the end they sometimes would be in a band and then never mention it again. Yeah. It was like the trajectory was banned and then space. This would have been this show though went through an amazing evolution. Well Fonzie did. I mean the whole show. The whole show. The tone did. Like it's like watching those early shows with Chuck. It's like American graffiti. The brother. Yeah. Shot on film. Right. Exactly. Single camera. Yeah. And and Fonzie was a much darker hood but he wore like a windbreaker like a barracuda jack. Because a regular leather jacket would have been too. Just a little too scary. Yeah. But then he put on the thing and he became Mr. sort of friendly. Yeah. Friendly cool guy. And then it was three. It became three camera shot on videotape later. I forgot that it was on film. I guess it was. They also kind of forgot it was in the 50s. Yeah. Yeah. They stopped even. Yeah. They became. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We don't really mention that it's the 50s anymore. And then literally jump the shark. Yeah. So that's where yeah. Yeah. That show was very very strange. But I do remember being really into good times and I had the dynamite magazine. Yeah. Dynamite. Was that named after? It was on the cover. I had that cover. Yeah. Well, it was just it was a kids magazine that was just that phrase was kind of in the air at the time. Yeah. Well, I think he made his own. Yeah. But I think I think he I don't know if he came up with it as a yeah as an exclamation. But he's sort of popularized. Absolutely. So I don't know. I would I would like to think that the world followed his lead and put on a magazine. He was in town this year for the Boston Comedy Festival. Yeah. And it was very very weird seeing him. Yeah. Because I'm like it's JJ. Yeah. And he's got to be 60s something. 60s probably. I would say yeah. Absolutely. So that's your first hour. And then what are you doing for the second hour? Another good team tonight. Oh yeah. Was that one. Yeah. I don't know. I remember Barnaby Jones. I put down Barnaby Jones, but I don't really I don't know that I saw that a lot. No, I definitely felt like an older person. It was certainly an old person show. And it was um, Buddy Ebsen. Yeah. You know, I'm not I never really like Beverly's that much. Yeah. And you know, if you were comparing it to Cojak, it was like, yeah, old people's it's more like a Matlock type thing. Yeah. So I didn't watch it. I just try to make it. I was just trying to fill in the slot there. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what I was watching. That's what we did at that time. They're like, you wouldn't turn it off. No, you're not going to go read a book. I have an hour. I'm going to watch Barnaby Jones if I have to watch something. Exactly. Yeah. So Wednesday night, eight o'clock, what'd you go with? Uh, oh, wait a minute. So, uh, I do have, uh, Hawaii Five O in there. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Hawaii Five O was not with a ten o'clock show. I would have watched that. That show was such a wish fulfillment too, because it's Hawaii, which is amazing. And another amazing theme song. Yeah. Yeah. But it predated the show, though, I think, right? It did. Hawaii Five O theme. I feel like that was a surf song pre Hawaii Five O, but it might be wrong. Oh, well, I have to look into that. It might be wrong. Yeah. So, you'll send your intern to see that. Yes. I mean, I'll send the dog. What is your absolute all time favorite theme song if you had to just pick one? Um, that's a good question. I mean, I think we've covered a couple of them, but I mean, good time. Uh, good times is, is, is, but I mean, moving on up is, yeah, because I love gospel stuff too. And that, that to me just stands alone is an amazing song. Oh, it reminds me of move on up. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of has that five things. Yeah. Well, it's that spiritual theme from from the old days, but also I was going to say, I think I heard you talking about, are you guys couldn't come up with, um, uh, uh, now I'm blank and I was John Sebastian's name for, uh, for welcome back for welcome back. Yes. Yeah. I've covered these songs with like Mike, my friend, uh, at various events where we were welcome back. That was another great one. Yeah. To me, that was the best thing about that show. No, well, I certainly, I can't imagine being an older kid and watching it later, but being in fourth grade, it was perfect. We were, yeah, it's like, you just looked up to these like rebels in the flash. That's true. You know, I think my, it's an instrumental, but I think my favorite theme song is probably Barney Miller. Oh, Barney Miller's amazing. Yeah. And every base player that starts to learn base. Yeah. And in that era, I started to play that. Yeah, my dad, my dad said to me one time he goes, that's not a what guy playing drums on that. And it was like, that's good. Right. I'll give you a couple of other goings. The instrumental realm, I would have to go with the theme to taxi, Bob James. Very melancholy. Yeah. Which is weird, you know, but it was an 80s sort of like Hill Street blues head away. Yeah. It had that vibraphone kind of stuff. Yeah. It was a sort of like a road, fender roads piano. Yeah. Yeah. Do, do, do, do, do. And, um, there were some great ones. There were some, and Rockford files had a great instrumental theme. And, but I, I go back to sort of like the odd couple too with that kind of stuff. Yeah. So like the, the, the MTM productions kind of stuff. Neil Hefty was the guy that did all those. I was like, um, mash, another mashing, but that came from the film, the movie. Um, I liked, uh, why am I, uh, blanking on his name? But he did Adams family and Green Acres. And, uh, he did all the music for the Ghost and Mr. Chicken cheese, uh, which all kind of sounds similar. Um, he had that sort of weird sort of harps and then like, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. I think it was weird, uh, aesthetic, tuba kind of aesthetic. Yeah. I always love those. And like the monsters theme song, but you know, what I really liked for a monsters. Yeah. That was like garage rock. Yeah. I always loved Batman. Batman's classic. Yeah. The theme to, uh, James at 15. How did that go? It was like a real weird country song. I was like, whoa. James. I don't think I really saw that show. It was like 78, 79, shot in Boston. Yeah. I remember. In fact, the author of the book or the creator of the show, I think he was the author. Um, he, he teaches at, at, he was teaching at Emerson. Yes. I went to a class with him. I can't think of his name either. But he, did he, same guy that wrote New York in the 50s. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I can't think of his name right now. Yeah. But that was a great show. That was sort of sort of my so-called life of the late 70s. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Same with like what family was sort of like that. So like shows start to become more progressive. Yeah. But not too. And they weren't like the Nivelaff tracks. They were dramas. Right. And they weren't, you know, dynasty. Right. It wasn't so about people. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It wasn't like you stole my bank account, the Bahamas. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. I mean, TV theme songs, I think, are sort of a lost art in a lot of ways. Well, I mean, you know, when we were like in college, that's how TVT records started. Yes. And they put out nine inch nails later on, became huge. But they made their money from, yeah, because they were cashing it on nostalgia for people like me. And you get, you get particularly nostalgic when you're in your 20s for your childhood, because you really feel your lost innocence. Yeah. It's why like you guys, you guys, guys like Brian Wilson and the Beatles writing their sort of looks back at childhood during the psychedelic era, because you start to go through those drug experiences or whatever else. And you say, Oh, there was an innocent was so different. Yeah. And so they were like, up to be a man. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I bought those TVT, those two disc vinyl sets. Yeah. Yeah. It was amazing to be able to back to like watching stuff over and over again. A lot of people, weirdly that I've talked to on the show, would watch shows and syndication because they liked the theme song. Yeah. And you couldn't hear it otherwise. That's like the first kind of music they like this kid with syndication later. I don't know if this was early on. I think it was later, they started to cut the theme songs to get more of the commercials. Yeah. And you know what they do now is they time compress them as well. Oh, so even if they don't cut it, they'll play it at like 1.5. And it drives me insane faster. Everyone's a little faster. Everyone's kind of high pitched. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, no, no, what are you doing? Yeah. Yeah. The whole show. Yeah. Because it gets one more commercial break in, which is like another, you know, whatever they can, whatever they can charge. Speaking of theme songs. So after we did, after we did big red letter day that had those songs that were in my so-called life, we worked on the, on that record with these guys named the Rob Brothers out in LA. And to me, they were like, I remember this show, The Hudson Brothers with K. Hudson's dad, you know. And it was like three real musicians who were also wacky brothers in the 70s. And that's who these guys were, the Rob Brothers. They had really sort of come up through that era in Hollywood. And so a lot of times, well, this is actually good for a couple stories because you're in Hollywood. So you have all these kind of crazy stories. Oh, yeah. But the one, the one that I'm thinking of right now is we came back. They asked when we were coming back through with a say, Hey, why you guys are in town, would you mind coming down? There's this band called the Rembrandts that wants you to, and we're like the Rembrandts. And they're like, yeah, they, you know, you might know them from the theme from friends. Now I didn't watch friends. My wife watched friends. I didn't like friends. But that song was huge. My daughter is huge. And they didn't write that. They just performed it. I don't know who wrote it. I should know. But the Rembrandts were trying to get this like Beatles song done for a film. And it might have been to get into Backdraft, which was coming out or something. Right. Right. So they wanted to do a version of Money, you know, which is a cover that the Beatles did anyway, Barrett's strong song. But they were like, they couldn't get it together with studio musicians. Right. We need a band like a real rock and roll band. Yeah. And we just got it to the studio. Well, I go give it a shot, you know, and we kept trying to bring them in a certain direction. They were like these pristine singers and pop harmonies. They're like studio musicians. It just wasn't working out. And we all left him sort of disgruntled like, okay, well, we can't work with you. You can't work with us. We tried, man. What do you want? But they were very nice guys, but they seemed really not happy to have us. Yeah. They were just like these these dirty musicians that are here. But one more TV side. There were plenty of stories from back in those days when we were recording there. But I have a picture of Chris Colburn from Buffalo Tom watching the final episode of Cheers. Sitting next to, yeah, sitting next to none other than Rick James really shared a tearful moment, the final episode of Cheers. Why were you watching it with Rick James? We were all in the lounge of the studio. Rick James was there for the whole time. Right. He was when he wasn't going to court. Right. This is during his trial years in 92, three, which is also when he did that song with the lemon heads. Well, there you go. That's why we came to Cherokee studios to work with the robber because they did it to shame about Ray. Right. And so he did. So he was hanging out and he was there for like years. Right. He had to play like one of the rooms. And one time we were like, you know, we had our, they loved to listen to the playbacks loud. They're right. So we had the playbacks gone and they're at the board and I look over and I see Rick James come out of the side of my eye. I see him coming out. I turn my head and he's he's got his head in the mini fridge stealing our beer, which you can't get mad. It's rich. Yeah. Exactly. And they stopped the track dead and he still got his head in the fridge. And they go the robber. Hey, Rick. And he lifts his head up and bangs the back of his head at the top of the fridge. I'm like, man, that's what James just said. So that was probably the studio that party all the time video was shot. It might have been James comes in and he's on the console with any Murphy that's one of the worst songs. It's really bad. It's really bad. But the video is very funny. She liked a party all the time. Yeah, he wanted to be a pop star. So you're just like, we got to watch cheers. And Rick James is like, I remember joining cheers and just you know, you never lose the surreality of that whole scene. Yeah. When you're in a working situation like that. And there's these weird random people coming through. You know, like one day we had, we had David Lynch, Gene Simmons, and Jessica Baxter, who was there quite often? Right. All in our mixing room at different times. Like the same day. Working on other stuff? No, they were just popping in because they all knew the Rob Brothers who won the place. What are you guys working on? Yeah. So did you meet David Lynch? Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, you know, he was a hero to me. Yeah. And that was right after Twin Peaks too. Yeah. He was there with Angela Baldomente. Baldomente. Yeah. And they're doing so they were, I don't think they had Julie Cruz in there with them, but they were doing those shows in Western Mass now. She was what? She lives in Western Mass now. Western? Yeah. Yeah. She lives up in the Berkshires. Oh, wow. Yeah. She does a lot of shows out there. Is she, is she American? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She was. The interesting thing about her is that actually I'd like to, she, she may do the show at some point. Oh, she started as like a, like a Janis Joplin type singer. Huh. And David Lynch and Angela Baldomente saw her in New York. Huh. And for some reason, we're like, oh, we should have her do this weird theory. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wasn't how she normally sang. I wonder what they heard in her voice. No, either. But then, you know, she became like their muse for that song. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it was what, '94, '95? Yeah. This was, no, no, this would have been '93. So I wonder what movie that was. It was Post Wild at Heart. Yeah. I started to lose track over what Lost Highway came. Yeah. And I, and I start to mix up those movies, but yeah, you know, Eraserhead and certainly Blue Velvet and then this Twin Peaks show were all huge, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And it was, and he, he's like, he's exactly who you think he is. Yeah. And he tells you stories like he knows you want to hear him tell the story because I know what you want. I used to come here at Ben Franklin or whatever. The Denny's every day and you know. Oh, Bob's a big boy. Yeah. Bob's a big boy every day. And he tell you, you know, I already read this story, but he's telling, he's telling your first hand. Yeah. And I looked at my back, I was, I was out of money. All I had was one penny. One penny was a greasy penny with, with a hair sticking off. And I'm just, you know, we're interrupting our mix. Yeah. And I'm listening to the story going, but worth it. Oh, are you kidding me? Yeah. He's like, I'm going, absolutely. We'll put this on, we'll put the whole record on hold. We'll get another $100,000 in the budget. The label will understand. It's fine. It was amazing. Like the level of detail he told the story with, you know. So you, you recognized at the time that this was weird. I was outside of my body for a lot of that time. Yeah. And in LA, I mean, you start to, I guess, you know, if you live there, you start to really become immune to it a little bit. But I'm a starstruck. I mean, even by, I mean, Lita Ford was there the whole time. I mean, I like, you know, I like, I like cherry bomb a little bit, but I didn't like her, you know, kiss me, at least. I mean, she went in the direction, you know, like Joan Jett went in the direction. Yeah, you know, we got to make you a hair metal. Yeah, yeah, act or whatever. And but she was there the whole time in sweetheart. And there were all kinds of people that were there a lot. You know, I, oh, this is a cool story. I was, well, anyway, I'm not going to get into the music story too much, but Hank Shockley from Public Enemy, who was the architect of that sound. What a weird mix of people. Yeah. But I was sitting with him while knowing it was him. Like, I knew that there were these guys and they were working with Hank. Right. And there was a certain studio that had an SSL board, a digital board that a lot of hip hop producers like. Right. So I knew that there was like this boy band kind of thing, this young hip hop kind of group in there. And so I'm sitting with what I think is one of them because he's a really young looking guy at the time. Right. And I'm talking, I said, Oh, we're having lunch. We're in, you know, they had these booths, like a restaurant booth in a lounge. And we're just sharing the booth where I haven't launched. And we just talk about what are you doing now? And I said, Oh, I hear you're in there with Hank Shockley. I'm a big figure. I'm Hank. Right. I am. I go, well, then I am Hank too. Right. Yeah. I'm, I'm Hank. I'm Hank because we are all. Oh my God. I, you know, I always start stuck with him. Right. Those public enemy records are huge. And I mean, back to like the technology television music where people can do all this stuff at home now, probably everything that you could have done in that, in that studio you could do probably on your own now. Oh, absolutely. But you're kind of people don't get experiences like that anymore because those people don't need to all go somewhere to do it. No. And those studios are shutting down as you know, there was an article in The Times, New York Times ago about, you know, two or three years ago about just the, the Lost New York studio, like the factory and the record plan because of real estate prices and the changing technology. Yeah. But you know, you had a confluence of things. It's just like going to an office as opposed to working at home. Right. And not, when you don't have to go to an office every day and waste your brain, but when you just pop in and there's a certain energy, right now there's, you just, it's just a give and take with people. It's being forced to a degree to have to experience either creating or, or taking in media to go to a place. Yeah, to create. Yeah. Or even like back to watching TV with your family. Like, yeah, you had to do that, whereas now your kids could probably watch it on their phone in their room and watch whatever they want. Yeah. My daughter's up in a room watching Gossip Girl right now on their laptop. I could go into it. Yeah. So you miss out on that kind of stuff. You miss out on watching Cheers with Rick James. Yeah. And there's a certain communal thing that we're experiencing in different ways. And it's not, I mean, it doesn't replace it. The actual given, now we're going to get into it. Right. The old man talk. Yeah. Or like media theory. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's very different. And I think that that's one of the reasons that she'll focus on sort of 70s and 80s and the shared experience stuff is because, I mean, that image of Rick James and it was a Chris that was watching. Yeah. Yeah. And I just have a photo. I was like, yeah. I have to take this on a photo. Those two guys are watching, not only watching the same show, but together. It's an event. Yeah. Yeah. And that, that doesn't, you know, it's sort of like a dandelillo novel. Yeah. There's Jackie Gleason next to, yeah. Frank's watching it here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So bizarre. Exactly. So bizarre. So two more nights left, Thursday night, eight o'clock, what'd you go with? The Waltons. Did you watch that? I did. Did you especially when I was this young? I think there's a certain amount of, it's on. Yeah. We're watching it. It was a certain family charm to it. Yeah. I mean, I was 10 years old. I wasn't all edge. Right. But that's what, that's one that I, most shows I can, like, I get that people watch. Like, you know, welcome back, Carter. I don't like it. Yeah. But I get, I get people like Waltons. People watch. It was huge. Yeah. It was nostalgia. But I, it wasn't, for me, it wasn't like a nostalgia for anything I knew. Right. But it was, you know, that was a nicely, as far as I remember, it was a nicely put together show, nicely, well acted, pretty good story lines, I think. And it was a film thing, right? It was like, it was, it seemed, it seemed pretty high quality. Yeah. And there was a, there was a cultural sort of, what do you call it? A, the catchphrase aspect of it. Nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine. Yeah. All that stuff was, you know, you kind of get, you got, it was a warm blanket of a show that everybody wrapped themselves up in, I think. And this one is, when a deaf girl is left on the Waltons doorstep, John Boy is untiring and has efforts to communicate with her. I'm going to leave this death girl. Yeah. Deathly her. That's fine. Yeah. Well, why is she left on the doorstep? Hold this for a second. Listen, if you can't hear me, I'm leaving you. I messed up with the Waltons. Do you know what to do with you? Sort you out and then make it a good night, John Boy. Night, John Boy. I said night, Lauren. She's night, night leaving. That's the episode's three hours long. He's still gone. Did you see the 40th anniversary? Yeah, I was so happy to see him before the turn. It was kind of great. That was a weird, it was very strange. Yeah, I didn't feel right. It was, you, it really was evident that that show has been on for 40 years. Yeah, the energy was, the whole show was put together. I mean, I think the mistake is filling the audience with celebrities who, yeah, you really have to make laugh, go out of your way, because it was just a lot of, yeah, there was a few moments, it was badly written. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was, you're mixing areas that don't mix. Yeah. It was, that show was always the sort of the taste of the time. Yeah. And so when you have someone from the original cast with a new cast member, it was totally different. It was really interesting. Yeah, I'm sure you read the Norm McDowell transcript or live tweeting thing or post-mortem tweeting. That was fascinating to me. Yeah. Just the fact of what makes a joke work and what goes into a joke. Yeah. I love that kind of stuff. And I love that he had made it the, the blatant rip-off of the sctv sketch, which is one of my favorite sketch of all time. sctv was my thing. Yeah, me too. Love it. I love it too. Yeah. It's funny how much how into comedy you are. Well, yeah, I guess so. I mean, I can't say that I've gone and see a lot of stand-up in my life. You know, it was sort of the music era for me. Right. We certainly had crossed paths, a lot of them. Yeah. It was a friend. But, you know, it's a similar, but I mean, I was like, you know, Judd Apatow grew up same era, same town, basically as me, a town over, you know, the jerk that, you know, freaks and geeks and that kind of stuff was totally, that captured my life. Yeah. That was my, you know, 78, 70 into 82, right, becoming of age. Let's get small. Let's get small. Oh my god. When that stuff came out and I got the cruel shoes book and yeah, I was because that's when stand-up was becoming a big thing. Right. But I wasn't until like Alan King, when I was there. Well, that was becoming more like rock music. Yeah. Concerts, right. Yeah. Yeah. And Eddie Murphy, comedian. Yeah. So we were all into that. I mean, everybody was part of the culture, the youth thing. Yeah. I think so. That's interesting because I think that people look at like that sort of the image of like the comedy nerd, but it was just that's what was big for most kids that was big. And then it's like, well, the nerd part of it is like going into the books or going into like, not just seeing an audience on, you know, yeah, going up proactively. Looking at the structure and how this stuff. Yeah. Or like trying to, you know, outdo each other with Monty Python jokes. Right. And see who knows the references. Right. But S.E.T.V. was a particular challenge because that was on late. Yes. And you can only, when I was that young, I could only see it some times. Yeah. But later in college, we caught up with a lot of Buffalo Thomas family had those tapes we watched all the time. Oh, and those hold up so well. Oh, my wife and I watched those all. Because look at the cast. It's an amazing assemblage of people. It's like, it's even more top-notch than the early days of Sarah line, which was sort of hit or miss. Yeah. And I think part of it was because they weren't coming up with a new show every week that had to be live. Right. They could take their time. Right. And do weirder stuff in the world building, a message to be aware, you know, Floyd, who is the drunk newscaster, then gets demoted to be Count Floyd. But they don't tell you, I mean, you just kind of follow these people and the reoccurring care. It makes sense to reoccur in a town aspect of the self-containment of it. You get rewarded for watching it for a long time because the right, you know, the fallbacks and stuff, but you don't need to have done the pre-work. Correct. Correct. Right. Right. Right. Now that was a fantastic show. And you know, it's funny. You talk about, I heard the Harry Scheer interview recently with Marin, I think, where he's talking about like, yeah, I showed up to do a professional thing, but they don't even start writing until Wednesday to remind rehearsal. And he's used to, I mean, he worked in radio for years. Yeah, like being a pro about it. Yeah. It's a very, very different world. Very different. And now it's more like a machine. But when he was there, yeah, it certainly was very different. Yeah. It was weird seeing Martin Short on SNL in '85. For the one year he was on, because he just brought all his SCTV characters. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Same year as Scheer was on. Yeah. Well, he was on in '78 for about half a season. Oh, '78. And he walked out. And then he came back in '85. Martin Short? No, Harry Scheer did. Yeah. He was there in '78. He was in like three sketches. That's right. And then he had such a horrible time. And then it's final tap. And then they got him back in '85. Right. Yeah. He seems like a bit of a prickly pair. Yeah. I think he's a fairly, he's one of those guys with fuck you money. Yeah. And utilize it. But always acted like he had it even when he probably. Yeah. Right. Right. Absolutely. Well, I'm smarter than everybody. Yes. But he is. I'm sure he is. And we were like, you're correct. You're correct. So you're watching that. And then nine o'clock on Thursday, would you watch after the Waltons? Nine o'clock on Thursday, I have Streets of San Francisco. Yeah. So you were. Yeah. I was into the cop shows. I like the show. And I remember seeing Bruce Lee on that show. Wow. He was on it because he was James. Not James Brolin. Who was the the main guy in Streets of San Francisco? Carl Malden was on it. Carl Malden was not cheesy. Carl Malden and the guy with the bigger hair. Yeah. I can't think of his name. But he was a student of Bruce Lee's. What's that? So Michael Douglas wasn't in that show. Michael Douglas was in the show. Yeah. Who am I thinking of? I don't know. But that's one of those shows that would be Brolin. I that's one of those shows that I probably only saw a handful of times. Yeah. Honestly, we're probably stuck with you. Yeah. And I remember like hearing about it from other kids going, Oh, you don't watch Streets of San Francisco. All right. Now I'm going to lie about it when I'm 48 and say I saw it. But no, I remember seeing it. Did your parents forbid you to watch anything? Well, I mean, certain things were on a certain times like this. So we're looking at a summer schedule here. So this was late, but they weren't like, I don't know. I don't know if it was on too late or not because I remember 75 watching Saturday Night Live. I think they were they were fine with me watching my black and white TV in my bedroom on weekends. But yeah, 10 o'clock lights out for a week. Like I remember the end of Jefferson's on Sunday nights. And that was like 10 o'clock and then it's going to bedtime. Yeah, because you get nothing but like six o'clock in a morning. Yeah, you probably want to go to school, but there was nothing content driven that they were like, you can't watch. No, no, no, because there wasn't really that's true. You know, I mean, you know, anything that could pass the muster of sensors. Right. I mean, I think Saturday Night Live, they just they didn't know they were in bed. Right. Right. And stuff probably went past them anyway. Yeah. And that was more just kind of mild stoner humor. It wasn't like, yeah, shit, you see now. Oh, God, where it's like, you know, I'm I'm very careful not to let my 10 year old see what you know, I filter it if it's on DVR. I'm difficult to shock. And I've been shocked by the television and I'm like, Oh, my God. Oh, yeah, regular TV. Yeah. Yeah, my commercials. Yeah. Were we talking about blackish or something? And something else was on recently. My wife is who is who's a little bit more less shocked than I am about like the kids scenes that she's like, okay, we're turning this off. Yeah. And I don't I don't know what the what the standards are anymore for Christ's sake. Jesus. Well, in some degree, like a lot of parents, I know end up DVR and stuff so they can watch it first screen. Then yeah, which is which is a nice option to have if you have that much time, that much time. But it's a weird thing to have to do. Yeah, yeah. And then to do even a Simpsons. And I remember Chris, when the Simpsons came out what 25 years? Yeah, 1989. Yeah. So his sister having a boy who was probably a son who was probably maybe my son's age, maybe a little younger, and her and her not allowing him to see the Simpsons. Right. And us just not getting that. Oh, really? It's a guy down. But we knew it was on. Right. But was like, but then you watch it now. And you're like, Oh, okay. It's like my No, yeah, there's a lot of stuff in there. There was a big movement too, because it was the the characters was like being very disrespectful to the adults and like, yeah, it wasn't that so much because I think if anything, we we raise our kids to be respectful, certainly, but to question a thought. Yeah, absolutely. So it wasn't that it would be more just like the if there was something the crudeness of the truth about it. Yeah. And it's not even sex so much. But once they get into like the details of sex or the mechanics of sex, I'm like, all right, hold on. I didn't want to be stuck into this conversation right now at eight o'clock on a Sunday night. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Although I'm mostly shocked by the just the ads for like like vaginal mesh. Yeah. Well, like in the middle of a TV, like a vaginal mesh is more like an abstract concept. But like if you have an erection lasting more than four hours, it's like you're sitting there with your son and going out. Yeah. Well, the TV power went out power went out. But the kids credit, they don't they don't want to know they don't want to talk to them. They don't want to talk to them. Yeah. They're going to just as much ignore that. Exactly. What's that? I don't hear anything. I got to go to the bathroom. Yeah. So finally, the Friday night of the week, July 11th, eight o'clock. What'd you go with? Oh, well, this would be Sanford and son. Sanford and son. Were you a fan of Red Fox outside of that? Yeah. Well, I didn't really know. No, I didn't until later. Buffalo Tom had a Sanford and so you know, we'd pick up cassettes at truck stops. Yeah. And we'd have trucker tunes and we'd have, you know, country stuff and we'd whatever whatever was in the $2.99 rack or whatever. And we picked up we did pick up a lot of comedy tapes and listen to stuff that that like Carlin, we listened to a lot. Whatever we could find our truck stops because these were for truckers. And there was a Red Fox on Ray Stevens. Yes. Yeah. The streak and that's a good point. Yeah. But there was also a Red Fox tape that we had and it was and it was recorded in and maybe this is all of his records. It sounded like it was recorded in a lounge. Yeah. Almost all in Vegas. Yeah. So it sounds like there's 10 people at night, which is a really interesting vibe. The atmosphere is really cool on those. Yeah. And predictably filthy, which I knew about. Yeah. But there is overdubbed an electronic drum rim shot. Yeah. Very weird. After every, after every joke, every singer, you know, really cheesy. Yeah. I wonder if, you know, a lot of that stuff was people could recopy right if they changed one thing. Oh, and a lot of those bargain bin tapes. Just people. They would go, Oh, I took the original, but I added this. So now I can recopy one, which is why I got those K tell stuff where they would have rerecordings, but it was original. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Less. That's a mechanical license. Yeah. Yeah. So I wonder if that might have been at like some 60s record, that's some guy night today. I know I put electronic drums over. I don't know. Because I don't think you could sell it as Red Fox, then true, but I don't know if there's anybody cracking down on truck stop tape. Red Fox with three X's. Yeah. Yeah. They're doing their busting, the BMI has busting the truck stops. Yeah. I, San Francisco was a show that I would watch and just not have an opinion. As a kid, I've already been like, yeah, it's on man. It was for guys. My age. It was like, it was body funny. I mean, it was so broad. And the whole I'm coming to Elizabeth stuff. I mean, that stuff was and the acting was so horrendous. So absolutely. His son. Grady. Grady. Friend. It was the big fat guy that the white guy that got the spin off. There was a white guy. Big fat guy with a beard. I feel like he never wore shoes. Now I said overalls on. He was like, he might have worked junkyard. It wasn't great, but he was like abused by them. Yeah. Yeah. He was like, I believe it was almost like Buffalo, but super super on good times when he was a black guy. Yeah. But he had a spin off at one point. It was just very crazy. I don't remember that at all. I don't remember spin off from Stanford. It didn't last long, but in another amazing Quincy Jones. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Quincy Jones, I still feel like is the best part about the Michael Jackson record. It's like the first two Michael Jackson records. All Quincy Jones. Quincy Jones. Amazing. Not quite zellig like, but a more like a career that spans from the big band era to now. Yeah. And married from the mod squad in Twin Peaks. Yeah. And his daughter is on rush. Yeah. I mean, it's amazing. Yeah. Quincy Jones is great. Yeah. So I probably wouldn't watch that. I think I wouldn't watch police woman. Police woman is on at the same time. I have police went down to you when police. Yeah. No, I'm sorry. I would watch the saint at eight o'clock. Yeah. I don't know the same. The same was a British American co-production. That's Roger Moore. Yeah. It was actually two different people. It was Roger Moore and then it was Ian I can't think of his name, but they had two different people. Roger Moore left to do. Yeah. I think I don't know if I just knew that or if I actually saw it, but it was a fun show. It was it was if you liked sort of the Roger Moore Bond. Right. Which I did. That was my era bond. Yeah. That same sense of humor. Yeah. It was a fun light show. You know, it was like the Avengers, but not quite as surreal. You know, sort of spy. It was a spy show. Yeah. Absolutely. So you watch police woman at nine o'clock with Angie Dickinson. Yeah. Well, the Rockford Files is in there somewhere too. Maybe that's at eight thirty. I don't know. But yes, I would have watched one or the other. But I know my dad one. What made my dad really pay attention was Angie Dickinson. Well, everyone's dad paid attention. Yeah. She was like the older lady that like you'd see my dad put the papers down and watching Angie Dickinson. She's obviously dressed to kill this. She's in the brand of Hollywood movie. Yeah. That was her big comeback. Yeah. I haven't seen it a long time. I love that movie. Yeah. So that's. And I mixed that up with I mixed that up with Blood Simple with the Cone Brothers. Oh, yeah. Similar time. So I think Drustacute was 1980 and Blood Simple was 82. Right. No, they did Blood Simple. So the Cone Brothers were the editors on Evil Dead. They were. They grew up, basically. George Romero. The Sam Raimi. Oh, Sam Raimi. Okay. And so they worked on Evil Dead. And then and then they made a movie with Sam Raimi and Bruce Campbell called Crime Wave. And then they made Blood Simple after that. And those two camps kind of split off, but it's such a weird sort of little scene. Yeah. Yeah. Well, those are those like sort of early 80s noirish kind of. Yes. Yes. Neo noir. Yes. That kind of came after Blade Runner, but then the sort of smaller movies where you get all those Jim Thompson movies they were filmed. There you go. Yeah. Like The Grifter. Yeah. Just one of my favorites. Yeah. I love the police one. It's such a terrible show. I don't remember the show so much. I do remember her being a hot little older lady. It's like TJ Hooker, but with Angie Dickinson. Yeah. Instead of Shatner. Yeah. Yeah. Made fun of on S.C.T.V. by Catherine Harripland, because many times. But I think this night I would have watched Get Christine Love. It was sort of a black exploitation cop show. And it was based, they did a two hour movie pilot, and then it was a weekly series. And Christine Love was like a Pam Greer type private detective. Afro? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. It was a real black power show. And it was very, very unusual for the time. And I didn't realize it was wrong. It was a fun show. I never hear anyone really referencing at this time, but it was a really, really fun show. I don't remember that one at all. And a rare show with a black lead and a non-comedy at this time as well. There you go. Yeah. Because there were a lot, they were overrepresented black folks on the comedy. Oh yeah. But not so much the action or the promise. That's right. Yeah. Not the thing. Yeah. The police. Yeah. Although, yeah. No. Yeah. Not really even pop cops. This one, not the best episode of Get Christine Love, but it's a quarter million dollars in stolen tennis tournament prize money disappears. And the short time between the robbery, when one of the thieves is killed and his partner captured, tennis pros Bobby Riggs and Rosemary casuals have cameo roles. There you go. Yeah. Tennis pros were huge in the 70s. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that is the end of the week, Bill. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Talking about it. Yeah. And, uh, on the summer, I would have ended it all by watching Honeymooners, I think. And, uh, I remember staying up with my grandparents watching Honeymooners and Carson. And, uh, I mean, it wasn't a show. I feel like you have to watch after 10 p.m. Oh, that was great. Yeah. And that was so new to you too. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. Another great I love Jackie Gleason. There's another guy who almost has like Quincy Johnson career with a big band and there you go. Yeah. Variety shows. Yeah. For years and years and amazing stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great club. Look, a wreck on tour. Oh, absolutely. Well, thanks for having me. You welcome this. Really, really great guy. Uh, if for some strange reason, you do not own Buffalo Tom records, you should go out and buy them immediately. They're, uh, they're all very good. Very solid. Great stuff. Uh, Bill's also been on television many times himself from the Conan O'Brien show many times. And I believe I'd have to, I'd have to confirm this. But Buffalo Tom was the first guest on the John Stewart show, the old pre-daily show John Stewart show. Uh, amazing. I, this show, again, I, I, I'm so happy that I started doing this because I get to, I get to interview people like Bill and it's, it's a lot of fun. So anyway, please, uh, email me at can and I can read dot com or at tvguidenscounselor@gmail.com. You can find us on Twitter at tvguidenscounselor. You can subscribe on iTunes and rate and review the show. If you like the show, it's a huge, huge help. I love hearing from you guys. You can contact me in any of the ways I just said or on our Facebook page and we'll see you again next Wednesday for a brand new episode of tv guidance counselor. You're loading your stuff in and there's, uh, girls dancing on the bar. Just telling me he hasn't seen him. Catwalk. Period. Why? She took my virginity somehow, you know, like Suzanne Summers running around in a tank top.
