- Wait, you have a TV? - No, I just like to read the TV guide. Read the TV guide, you don't need a TV. ♪ Scroll this planet ♪ ♪ Scroll this planet ♪ ♪ Scroll this planet ♪ - Hello and welcome to TV Gaddens, Counselor. As always, I am Ken Reed, I am your TV Gaddens, Counselor. And my guest this week is Samara Johnson, professionally known as Sam J, very funny comedian here in Boston. We did some shows at the Riot Alley Comedy Festival a few months back. She is one of the newer comics here that I think is really great. I think you will enjoy her conversation. She is very interesting. And I will see you at the end of the show. So please welcome my guest this week, Sam J. (upbeat music) ♪ What does it mean to my living room? ♪ ♪ What does it mean to my living room? ♪ ♪ What causes it in my living room? ♪ ♪ What does it mean to my living room? ♪ ♪ What does it mean to my living room? ♪ ♪ What do I mean to my living room? ♪ ♪ What do I mean to my living room? ♪ ♪ What do I mean to my living room? ♪ - So enjoy. - Hey everybody. - Welcome to the home. - I'm excited. - This is, it's a little messier than normal. - It's comfy though. - Is it comfy? - Yeah. - As long as it's comfy. You trekked out to the suburbs for this. - Yeah, to the train. - Took a train and then a car ride. - Which was a longer car ride than I expected. - It was slightly longer and I did make you wear blindfold just so that you couldn't lead people to this house. - And I was also kind of nervous. I was like, I don't know where I'm going. Like, where are we right now, Stoneman? - This is Stoneman, yeah. - Okay, yeah, I've never been, I don't think I've ever been out here. I didn't for us, it was that close to a-- - Maldon? - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - Exactly. - A lot of people down and we're hoping people continue not to see their house values, continue to be as high as they are. That's not true. But, so you were kind of looking at the late '90s. Then you landed on the week of September 24th to the 30th, 1994. - Yes, I thought that was good because my age, it was 12 at the time. So I think I was like into a wide range of TV at this point. - Yeah, and that's usually sort of people's sweet spot as I was saying earlier was that. Because you're, you kind of want to be an adult, so you'll watch more like adult type things. But then you also really, sometimes secretly watch a lot of kid's stuff as well. - Right, and then my understanding of even the adult stuff was like not what I understand of it now. - Right. - But my mind, I just was young, I didn't really know, but I knew it was like stuff. - Yeah, something was going on. - Yeah. - And you also are sort of too young to go out and hang out with kids a lot at night. - Exactly, that's why I also picked September. I picked the fall because I was like, I'm pretty rigorous schedule. I got schools from home. I'm actually watching TV this summer. I'm not really watching as much, you know what I mean? - Well, there's not as much new stuff on either. It's usually reruns. - So I was like, so 12, what are you, sixth grade? - 12, I am in the seventh. - Is it seventh grade? I can never remember. Yeah, so '94, I was a freshman in high school. I'm two years older than you. So yeah, what was seventh grade? - Yeah, I was seventh grade, I went to Catholic school. - Was the Catholic school like K through high school? - Yup. - It was one of those schools where we all knew each other from, I started the first grade and then went to school with the same kids. - Okay. - I went to classes with the same kids until I graduated. - You went to school? - No, my brothers were way older than me. And I had two brothers, but if my brother was close to 50 and my other brother was like 45. - Okay, all right. - So I was kind of a solo. - It's probably good that they weren't in the school. - Yeah. - I would have said very bad things about them. - That's pretty solo. - So full on all girls Catholic school? - No, the high school was all girls, but the K through junior high was, you know, co-ed. - Junior high went to eighth grade? - Yes. - Okay, so you had two years left before you had to go all girls? - Yeah, but then the cafeteria burned down. - What? - And I don't know what happened. - I don't know. The cafeteria burned down because the high school kids were only kids who had access to the cafeteria. - Okay. - We don't have the cafeteria if it was like a pizza day or something. - So the buildings were connected? - They were kind of, they weren't the same property, but not connected. - Okay. - And the cafeteria was like in the middle of the properties. And we would only get cafeteria time, like if it was a big pizza day for like the whole eighth grade or something like that. - How would you, where would you eat lunch? - Oh, you had to bring your own lunch. - We'll just eat in the classroom? - Yep, you'd eat at your desk. So, you know, you'd pull your lunch out your-- - That's horrible, yes. - You had no lunch room. No, we ate in our classrooms. We ate in our classrooms from first grade to eighth grade. - So you stayed in the classroom all day? - Pretty much. We rotated to like two, three classes. - Did you have a cloak room? - Yes, we did. - Did they call it a cloak room? - They did, and-- - And that's always weird. - One time, like, I was in the coat room and I was going in my bag and a roller, a sponge roller came out my bag, but this girl said it was a tampon and I was in fifth grade and it made my fifth grade year terrible. And then the Catholics were like, "You're not allowed to have a period. You're going to hell." - And like all the kids were just like, "Oh, my God, it's more as a tampon." - 'Cause kids are horrific monsters. Like kids are the worst people on earth. - And I was like, "I don't have a tampon." And it was just, and it made fifth grade tough. - So they never forgot it the whole year. - No. - You were just praying all year that someone would do something worse than having a fifth tampon in their bags. - Right. - Like someone would puke or poop their pants or something like that. - Something, right. - We had a kid that came into the cloak room one day in Kindergarten and projectile vomited completely. Just no one knew what, just everywhere. Like bright pink. - Whoa. - It looked like bright pink oatmeal. - Whoa. - Yeah, the janitor was very unhappy. - Yeah, that's crazy. - About the sawdust he had to put down on that thing. - Yeah. - It was very unpleasant. - That's what it does. - So are you very religious? - No, I wasn't Catholic which was a big deal. You know, at Catholic schools you can be Catholic or you can be what they call like a lay person or a non-Catholic person. - Right, right. - And then it's higher because you're not a part of the parish. You're not a part of the church. - Really? They'll charge you more? Our people are like, "No, I'm really into it. Can I have a discount?" - A lot of people go into the kiss of communion because they just don't want to pay the amount of money. - Geez. (laughs) - That's crazy. - Yeah. So I was a Catholic and I hadn't gone through communion or anything like that. But I mean, you still have to learn. Like, you know, you still have to go to religion class. - Right. - So you learn a bunch of the stuff. My mom wasn't very religious. Like she saw her say, "Remember religion." She was the opiate of the masses. - Right. - She was one of those people. - That's pretty progressive for your mom. But it was just a better school than you would have. - Right. - To see if you're into public school. - Exactly. And it was cheaper than like a private school. - Right, right, right. - So it was like right in the middle, you know? - Where'd you go up again? - Um, Dorchester. - See, go up, Dorchester. - Yeah. - Okay. That's my mother did as well. Not the same year. (laughs) It was a little earlier than that. Yeah, Catholic school always just terrible. All my uncles went to Catholic school. Actually, my mother's whole side of the family. And it did not do them any good. - It was a good experience. I feel like I was smart. By the time I got to high school, because it was crazy. Like, okay, so basically I was a terror in my school. - Okay. - They thought at one point they told my mother I was possessed by the devil. - Really? - Yeah. - Did they recommend an exorcism? - They did. - Hold on a second. - Seriously. - They actually recommended an exorcism. - Yeah, they told me I needed to go see the priest. And I needed to get an exorcism. (laughs) I was just, I used to just like to mess with them. - Right. - I wasn't really bad. Like, I didn't fight kids and stuff. - Right. - I just pushed their sensibilities a lot. - Gotcha. - Like, I would do stuff like that. - You question their mother. - Question. And I would go into church and when we would stick our hand in the holy water. - Yeah. - I'd always act like it burnt me. - Yes. - And just stuff that. - Well, that will lead someone to believe you are possessed by the devil. - Just stuff to like, am I at least like, will you just cut it out? Like, I know nothing's wrong with you and I don't think this is funny. - Right. - It's like something wrong with me. - How did you resolve that? - Um, it never really got ridged at all. - And I blew over. - Yeah, they kind of just were like, there's nothing we can do with this kid. - So you didn't take communion? - So I didn't take communion and they kind of, they once only tried to force communion on me at one match. - How would you force communion on me? - Two nuns held me and the other one tried to like, put it in my mouth. It was crazy. - Two nuns held you and nuns tried to put that cardboard styrofoam awful curve on me. - Cause they said I was just like, they really felt like I was possessed. - Oh. - Isn't it blasphemous if someone who hasn't gone through whatever the first communion craps is? - I guess they felt I was so far gone. I just needed anything. I just needed something. - I, too. - I mean, it's crazy to me. I wonder if those women, the women who can't have children, maybe biologically, but at least by religion, who are probably the last people on earth that should be in charge of children, really thought that. Like, I wonder if they really thought you were possessed by them. - They thought like, they thought something was wrong. I remember I asked the priest, because whatever religion, the priest will come in on Fridays in the religion class and you could ask them any question you wanted. So I asked them. - You could ask them any question you wanted that you were okay with having all the other kids here you asked. - Right. So I asked if you were a woman who got a sex chase to be a man, could you then become a priest? Because only men can be priests. - Right, right. - And that wasn't received very well. And I got thrown out of religion class. - Who was the answer? - He didn't answer me. He just turned really red. His name was Father Daily. He turned really-- - Oh Father Daily. - He turned really red and they asked me to leave. - For good or just that day? - Just for the rest of the day. I had to sit in the principal's office. - Were you, so for people that don't know Sammy, you are a lesbian? - Yes. - Were you aware of that then? - No, I really thought I liked boys. I had a huge crush on Dylan from 902 and now. - Okay. - I had a heart. Yeah, I had a heart Dylan pillow. - Okay. - You weren't feeling like, 'cause there's a lot of anti-gay rhetoric. - I had brushes on girls, but I didn't know that that's what was happening. - Right, right. - I just thought these girls were really cool and I like being around them and like, I remember my kind of friend Kimberly Lydon. - I would like color her like pictures. - Right. - You know? She went, "Oh, your coloring's getting so much better." And I just liked her. - Yeah. - And I looked back and I'm like, "I totally liked her." - Yeah, you liked her. - But yeah, but when I was a kid, I was just like, "What? She's awesome, you know?" - Do you think, the reason I bring it up is 'cause I wonder if the nuns who probably were also some lesbians mixed in there, kind of picked up on that and that was what they were thinking was you were presenting. - Oh, maybe. I don't know. - What if you weren't really manifesting that to later? - I don't think I was. They weren't this really like, evil old ladies. They were really like, spiteful and just angry and stuff, 'cause we had a teacher. - Wait, nuns? - Yeah, right. We had a teacher Ms. Stansiani and she was like... - And that's Italian nun? - She was a lady. She was a laywoman. - Oh, okay. - So you could work at the school, too, and work Catholic, but they had separate rules for you. - A woman sounds like something that I would call a prostitute. - Basically, that's how they treated her 'cause she's really, really pretty and she was tall and she had like perfect olive skin. - Right. - And sometimes she'd wear a tennis shirt 'cause on Wednesdays, she'd play tennis with her fiance. - Okay. - So she'd wear her tennis stuff to school. - I like it. - Which I don't really think is appropriate, but it was really hot. - But I've lost that shirt. - And I totally got a crush on her and I would buy her like the best gifts on like bringing a gift to your teacher day, a teacher appreciation. One time I got her a letter, like a book page holder. - Yeah. - That was like Goldy Planet with her name. That's the Stansianis. - She is. How did she receive that? - She would just be like, "Oh, you're so sweet. Thank you." And I would just be like, "Oh, yeah." - Yeah, I'm totally in. - I was in love with her. - Yeah. - Totally. - So did you go to the Catholic high school? - No. What happened? That's why I was getting with her. So by the time I get to get great, I have a reputation in the Catholic school of Boston of just being like this... - Your name's on the list in the archdiocese. - Yes. Of like, she is a terror of the kid, so I couldn't go to my girls' schools because it had burned down. - Right. - So I went to St. Clair's, which I think was in Rosendale somewhere at the time. And I was going through the open house of St. Clair's. - And Rosendale is, for people not in the Boston area, is sort of like a transitional city between Dorchester, Roxbury, and into the suburbs. - Yeah. - It's like the middle city. - Right. - So I go to Rosendale and I'm going to the St. Clair's open house. You know, you're going to the different classrooms and you need to teach us what. - Right. - And I get to this history class, and none is like, "You're smart at Johnson, aren't you?" And I was like, "Yes." And she was like, "Miss Stacy's told me all about you, and I'm waiting to get you. I can't wait to break you." And so... - That's like a prison movie. - It was crazy. And so my mom, I told my mom that my mom was like, "I'm not doing this for another four years." - Yeah, it's just gonna get worse. - It's ridiculous, and she sent me away to Stoughton High School. So my mom moved out to Stoughton and stayed with my cousin. And my mom was getting ill at the time anyway, so I went to Stoughton's day with my cousin, and I went to Stoughton High. - And Stoughton's pretty far. - Yeah. - I mean, that's probably 40 minutes from Boston. - Yeah. - Not even just suburban. It's almost kind of rural. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Although it does. It was strip club. - It does. One very bad strip. - Is it Alex's? - Alex's. - Yeah. - It's terrible. - Yeah, it's really bad. We used to always end up weirdly playing shows in Stoughton at VFW halls. And we played a show in this abandoned hotel down there. And you'd always drive by Alex's, a gentleman's club or whatever. - Yeah. - And they had a buffet. Oh, have you been there? - Yeah, no, it's disgusting. - I think you'll imagine. - It's the only strip club I've ever been in where I've looked away. Like, I didn't want to look. - Right. - And I was just like, I don't want to be here. - Just like hideous people. - It was just, yeah, just gross. - Should go strip clubs often? - I do. - Actually. - Really? - Yeah, I do, but I didn't, not here so much. But when I was living in Atlanta, I did go to strip clubs a lot. - Inadvertently? - I'm not. I really just love strip clubs. They're great places to be. And in Atlanta, they're really like a social scene more. Girls go, guys go, there's pool. - Oh, wait, you mean hot Atlanta? - Yeah. - There's pool. You know, so it's like-- - Just hanging out on a bar that happens to be naked people. - Right. - Yeah. I've only been once, and it was like two years ago, and I was doing the British Young Comedy Festival. And apparently, Portland is like the most strip clubs per capita out of any place in the world or something. So they did like a comedian's strip club crawl, and I talked into going to one of them, and I was just very uncomfortable. - I would imagine not, you know, not knocking you, but you don't strike me as a strip club type of guy. - No, I'm not. - I would imagine being uncomfortable. - Yeah. - Not my thing. Not my thing. - Yeah. So Alex's is what Stoughton is known for. Did kids in the high school talk about Alex's own? - Yeah. Like, some kids like try to sneak in and stuff, because, you know, people want to see boobs, especially young boys. - In the free widespread internet age. - Exactly. - Did you go to college? - Yes, I did. - Where'd you go? - I went to Clark Aladdin University, and then I left there, and I went to a community college in Georgia called Barter College, which was like a terrible place. - Why did you head down south? - Well, my brother was down there. - Okay. - I always wanted to go to Georgia. My mom had passed away when I was 16. - Right. - I was just trying to- - You kind of want to get out of here? - Yeah. I was just like, "I just want to get out of here." - Yeah. - So I went down south, because that's where everybody was going, when I was graduating from high school. I was like, "If you were young, and you were black, and you had any ambition, you were going to Georgia." Because Atlanta was just- - Is there a lot going on there? - Yeah. Atlanta was just like, where it's at? Especially for young black kids. There's a lot of upward mobility. - Okay. - A lot of my friends opened up their own stores, like, fashion lines, it was just a lot of stuff going on. - Yeah. - So it was like, "All right. This is where you go." - That was like the Williamsburg for black kids. - Yeah. Exactly. - That's exactly what I said. - So I went down there, and I got into Clark, and I was there for like, I can't even really say I went there, because I was there for like maybe three months, and I didn't really go to any classes, and I couldn't afford to stay in school. - Right. - Like some freaky stuff, having my brother and my money, and it was just crazy. - Right. Mostly probably due to demons or devil possession. - Exactly. - Right. - And I was going to a Catholic school, I mean a community college that was underneath a Lord and Taylor. - In a mall? - In a mall, in Fitch Plaza. - So it's right next to like a Lord's and Lady's hair, so long, and like the photo place? - Literally, you had to go through, you could go through the Lord and Taylor to get to it. You'd go down the escalator to the basement of the Lord and Taylor, and you could walk out the door, and there was like a school under there. - There's a community college underneath the department store. - Yes. - That sounds like my dream. - And... - I love a department store. - And if I could have gone to college in a department store, I would have had a lot of fun. - It was terrible. It was a bad idea. - Did you finish? - No, I just drank a lot in party too much. - Yeah. - And like, I don't really think I ever wanted to go to college, I think I just wanted to get out of Boston. - So like you want to get your own issues to get out of Boston? - Yeah. - And also I think that it feels like you have to go, like there's a lot of business. - Yeah. - If you don't, there's a problem. - It was a huge thing of like you have to go, and like this is what your mother would have wanted you to do, and all of that stuff, but I don't really ever think it was for me. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you move back here? - Yeah, I moved back here, I want to say four years ago now. - Okay. - Yeah, I think that's where I went with you. - Yeah, four years ago. - It was probably about three years ago. And you just started doing Santa when you moved back here? - Yeah. - Okay. - I had been exposed to stand up before, I had a Chris tab, was married, well, is married to my cousin. - Okay. - So he kind of-- - He kept Boston, comedian. - Yeah. So when I first was like, I always kind of wanted to do it, but I don't know, around 20, I was like, I really want to do this. - Right. - So I linked up with him, and he kind of brought me around, and I did Dix when it was, you know, by Emerson. - Yeah. - I did it like twice, and I was just terrible at it, at least I felt terrible at it. People told me I wasn't, but-- - Well, that means you're good. If you feel bad at it-- - I just was like-- - But people were like, do it one time, and they're like, I'm probably the best. That's usually the worst. - I was like, I'm so--cause I think I had in my mind what I knew a good stand up was. - Right. - And I was just like, I am a million years away from-- - You were always kind of a wise ass school and stuff, so it was kind of made sense. - So I was just like, oh, this is--and I always just loved comedy, I always was like a study of comedy, and inadvertently, so I was just like, this sucks, you know? And I think it was just like, I knew I didn't really have a voice, or an identity, or anything, because I'm 20, and I'm still like, even dating dies, like, I have no idea who I am. - Right, right, right, right. - I'm just figuring stuff out. So in the midst of all that, you know, I moved to go away to school, because I stayed for a year after I graduated. So I moved to go to school, and then I'm just like, you know, it kind of goes to the back bird of my mind. - Yeah, yeah. - But yeah, right. But every once in a while, I'm like, oh, I remember that, and it was cool, and I would like to try that again, and I went through a lot of different career paths. You can say, like, I was doing promotion and club stuff and music stuff, but it was always kind of in the entertainment field, but it felt like I was always, like, behind the scenes trying to help someone else achieve their dreams and goals. I was doing managing of an artist, and... - This is Atlanta. - Mm-hmm. And yeah, we almost got a deal, like, most people, but it was cool, like, I met a lot of people, like, I met TI. I met tons of people. I was Jeezy. I was, like, in and out of studios, a lot of killer Mike. - You could be making up names, and I worked out to be like, oh, yeah, so kind of... - So it was neat. It was really neat experience, and I think it definitely helped me in my stand-up career, like... - Oh, I'm sure. - It definitely gave me a lot of cool... - You can apply some of that to it. So, when I came back home, I was just, like, you know, I'm tired of just not doing what makes me happy. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And being afraid. I think it was really the biggest thing, was just a fear thing, like... - Oh, fair. - 'Cause I really wanted to do it. You know what I mean? I remember, I was hanging out with this girl, and she was just, like, what do you want to be? You know? - That's a weird question. - And I was, like, a comedian, you know? - Yeah. - And she was, like, are you serious? Like, in Atlanta, no one ever thought, like, I was really quiet. - Right. - And, you know, I'd say funny things here and there, but mostly I'm just chill and quiet. - Right. - And I'm like, "Yeah, no, that's what I want to do." And then she was like, "Why aren't you doing it?" And I was like, "Because I think I'm going to be good at it." - Yeah. - Which was the first time I was really honest about what was making me afraid. 'Cause it was like, once I did it, that I had to do it... - It's kind of stuck doing it. - Yeah, and I had, like, I had huge committed issues in general, just from being young and moved around a lot. - Yeah, yeah. So you don't want to go on a path. - Right. I'm like... - Was you having found that path yet? In 1994. - No. - But in 1994, until... - Were you thinking about wanting to do that stuff? How many ways did you do that? - I was. I was thinking about... - Kind of secretly. - Secretly, like, how could I have a job just being funny? Like, I always knew, like, I was funny, and not even being cocky, but, like, I knew, like, I knew how to make people laugh. Like, I knew how to tell a story and embellish enough of it. - And for people who can't see Sam right now, she is wearing, like, a grocho marks glasses and mustache combo. It's really funny. - So I did, but I didn't know it was, like, a real thing. You know, I didn't know it could be anything, you know? - Right, right. - It's like, my parents were, you know, very regular people. - Would you watch Stand Up On TV? - Yes. - Okay. - Yes. - So you asked that cable. - Yes. - Okay. - Since your brother's out in the house, you kind of had free reign of the television. - Yeah, yeah. And I had cable in my room. - Oh, okay. - I had a TV on the cable in my room. - That's everything. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - What did you watch at eight o'clock on Saturday, on September 24th? - Clarissa explains it all. - Sarah's SNCC person. - I was definitely a SNCC person. I was big on, um, I liked Nickelodeon because it was, like, cool, it was cool programming here towards kids, but it was smart. - Yeah. - It was smart and it was engaging. - It definitely wasn't. At that time, it was personal. This was sort of the tail end of it, but Nickelodeon had an anti-adult attitude. - Right. - And it was very much like, yeah, it's kids doing stuff. - Yeah. - It's not like that. - Yeah. - Kids could do cool things. - Yeah. Their rules are bold. - Right. - And it sounds silly now. - Exactly. - But it was just kind of revolutionary at that time. - No, it was great. - It was great. - It was like MTV, but for, like, kids. It was great. - Yeah. - It was like, and it had, it had the news and, like, put it under L.E.D. - And that stuff was great. - Yeah. - And it didn't talk down to kids. - No, it was great stuff. - So Clarissa, this episode is best friend Sam and Clarissa play the dating game. This is the one where they try to get together. - Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - It doesn't work out. - No. 'Cause that's not how friends are supposed to be. - They should. They should. - They shouldn't be hooking up. - Yeah. I generally would have watched Clarissa at this time when I was 14. So SNCC started in '92, when I was 12, and I usually watched it. But by '94, I was kind of aging out of that sort of world. - Well, on a Saturday, I'm typically watching Nickelodeon all day. - Yeah. - So it's just flowing into it. - Just don't change channel. - Yeah. Like, I'm watching guts. So I'm really just watching Nickelodeon all day. - Yeah, I think that's fair. I probably would have watched cops because I've watched cops every Saturday night to this day. - See, it was like a back and forth for me. Like, sometimes if I was, if I came out in my room and I was watching TV with my parents, I'd watch cops. - Yeah. - 'Cause they watch cops. But I was like, nah, if I'm in my room and just in my meet time, I'm going to watch Clarissa. - I'm going to watch Clarissa. - Or I would have been possibly in WPAX watching They Live, the John Carpenter movie starring Roddy Roddy Piper for the awards. I've never seen it. - No. - It's great. TV Guide only gives it two stars, sadly. But it says, "John Carpenter's dark parable about aliens disguised as yuppies. It stars Keith's David, Roddy Piper has the longest fight scene on film to this day." - I might have to check that out. - You would love... - I like Roddy Piper. - Roddy Piper's great. Keith David's great. It's a really good movie. They live. It's very anti-riggan. - All right. I gotta check that out. - So 8.30, what'd you go with? - Pete and Pete. - Maybe my favorite John Nickelodeon ever did. - Great. - Great show. Great writing. - The Mr. Frosty episode is my favorite. - Yes. What we did on our summer vacation. - That was the pilot episode for the series in a lot of ways. - Yeah. - It was so good. - That was such a great show. It doesn't say which episode it is this evening. A family... This is a great one. Okay. A family feud erupts when Mr. Hickel, who is played by Steve Buscemi, remember, bounces radio frequencies off the metal plate and mom Riggly's head. This is a really weird one. Steve Buscemi. Steve Buscemi is on a kid's show. - Yeah, it's fantastic. - Yeah. I don't think I remember that specific episode, but I was huge into Pete and Pete. I just really enjoyed it. I just enjoyed Nickelodeon. - So here's a question for you from a sort of race perspective. There was a writer of Nickelodeon, a book about Nickelodeon who got in some trouble recently because he complained about how ethnic Nickelodeon is now and was complaining about it, which I think is off-base. But at this time, especially, it's all white kids on Nickelodeon. - Yeah. - Did you find that alienating at all? Or did it matter? - You know what? No. I don't know. To me, TV was part fantasy, and it was always good to see lives that I wasn't necessarily living, exposing me to stuff that wasn't necessarily my day-to-day. - Sort of escapism, a bit. - Escapeism. I'd watch, say by the bell, and it's like, "Oh, I'd be cool as hell," and be like, "Zach Morris." You know how this would be cool, and not really because when I wanted to do my black thing, I would just watch Fox or something. - Every show on Fox, Fox just said, "Fox, it's a black thing." Yeah, I think that's fair. You know, I was wondering about that because I take for granted growing up where the majority of kids on TV, and at least when I was growing up or we were growing up, probably more of my race. So I always wondered, and I had well-rounded experiences, too. Like I would watch just shorts, but I went away to overnight camp, so I was like, "You know, you can still relate." - Seeing that I'd never been to overnight camp. - You can still relate. - Yeah, I'd never done that. And yeah. - The only show I didn't really get was probably like, "Hey, dude." I was like, "I hate it, hey, dude." - I didn't like "Hey, dude." - "I hate it, hey, dude." - "I hate it, hey, dude." - Yeah, I don't think that was a race thing. I think that was just terrible. - No, it was just terrible. - It wasn't a race thing. It was a taste thing. I'm going to get a shirt that says that, "9 o'clock you're sticking with Nick." - No, 9 o'clock, I'm leaving my room to go on to my parents and I'm watching America's most wanted. - So this was a family thing you guys watched again? - Yeah, like we just watched America's most wanted. I mostly would be scared out of my mind, because I just, I was one of these, like, sensationalism works well on me. - Was that the only show you watched with your parents? - No, we used to watch, like, America's most wanted. I used to watch like, "Frazier with my mom," two times. She was into like, "She really like Chelsea Girma a lot." Like she was a big chairs fan. - Well, I loved them on chairs and I hated them for Asia. - Yeah, she was a big chairs fan, so it was like, whatever, you know, happened after that, she was with it. So I'd watch like that kind of stuff with my mom, sometimes, and like, Jeopardy, of course, stuff like that with my mom, and Star Trek. She was a huge Trek-y. - Original series or next generation? - Both. - Oh, cool. - She was into both. And I'd never understood any of the three shows, but I would just- - Right, you'd watch it anyway. - 'Cause I was being on my mom's- - Yeah, yeah. - So did you ever see anyone you thought you knew when America's most wanted? - No, I never got that serious for me, but I just, like the stories would just like haunt my mom. - Well, yeah, it's terrifying 'cause it's not even like aliens and stuff, it's real people committing real crimes. - Right, and then my mom told me like, "John Walsh is a real back story son," and I'm like, "Ah, there's too much for me." - Yeah, that is a little too much. Yeah, I would not watch it for those very reasons, if I could avoid it. - Like, it was scary. - Yeah, no, it's a scary show. - And I would like, split between that and are you afraid of the dark? Like, how do I tap over the most wanted- - Which is less scary. - Which also scared the crap out of me, though. - So are you just generally easily spooked like you're scared of that kind of thing? - Yes, I am. - And I have a crazy imagination. - So you don't watch horror movies or anything like that? - I don't. - So this episode of "Are You Afraid of the Dark" is a young woman strikes up a friendship with a strange new neighbor. I don't remember that episode specifically, but I would occasionally watch that. And again, it's 1994, I'm still kind of aged out of the SNCC thing, but they're airing a Saturday Night Live marathon on Comedy Central. And at this time in the '94, early '90s, they pretty much aired the episodes for my favorite era of Saturday Night Live, which was like '85 to '89, '90-ish. And so I definitely probably would have been watching that at the time. I will mention that Halloween 3 was on, though, at 9 o'clock, and I'm a huge horror movie fan. So I definitely would watch those. I also want to mention at 10 o'clock, the show Sisters Was On, which I watched every day and week. - Cool. I was... - So the award was the big actress on it. - Okay. 'Cause I was like, I don't know. - Swoozy Kurtz was on it. It was sort of an update of like 30-something. It was like suburban, middle-class white women that are sisters that have problems as cancer and some of them have an affair. - Yeah, so that's adult stuff. - You know, that kind of stuff. - That's heavy stuff. I probably won't get into that. - Yeah. - Well, I used to watch 30-something when I was an aide or not. I don't know why I watched those things. No idea why I watched those things. Sunday night 8 o'clock, what'd you go with? - The Simpsons. - Okay. Were you a die-hard Simpsons? - Yes. Yes. I had the Simpsons, sings the blues. - Do the Bartman. - My favorite song was "Look at All These Idiots" with Mr. Burns. - Right, right. - It was great. I saw the Simpsons. - I saw the Simpsons. - I did. I had a Bartman shirt. I had a black Bart so sing. - Black Bart. - Shirt. I had a black Bart cake for my birthday that year. - Where'd you get the black Bart shirt? - Um, it was like some local store in my neighborhood and had a bunch of different accounts. - They're everywhere. Every convenience store. - Yeah. - They're somewhere. - Yeah. - It was those in the hip hop loony tune. - Yeah, I had that shirt. And I've been looking for one on e-day in my size because I feel like that needs to be resurrected. - They can go for kind of a lot of money these days. - Yeah. - Yeah. - We used to go to the flea markets all the time as a kid. And that time, especially, we'd go to this one in Revere that was in the parking lot of the Revere cinemas. And I felt like they had a whole aisle of just like black Bart Simpson for that memorabilia and then all hip hop loony tunes. - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like whatever you needed, right? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Or the corner mall. - Oh, downtown. Yeah. - You get the picture there too with the brick behind. - Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. - For like airbrushed motifs. - Yeah. I still like the corner mall down there. Like if you're in Boston, if you go to downtown crossing, it's sort of been revitalized a little bit now. But that place after five o'clock would be a ghost town. - Yeah. - No people would be down there. - Yeah. - This is like a business district. - Right. And everything closes early downtown. - But the corner mall was not really a mall, it was basically like a, like a food court. - Yeah. And two stores. - Yeah. And it was ridiculously 80s. - And it's still the same. - It's exactly the same. - Yeah. - And it was the only thing open down there past five o'clock. I think there used to be like a chess king in there maybe, like a merry-go-round. - Yeah. There was one around the corner. - Yeah. - I don't know if I can get a mall right next to it. There was a merry-go-round. My uncle used to work in there. - At the merry-go-round? - Yeah. - Oh wow. - He used to get us like jeans. Like colored jeans and such shirts. - You could do cross colors? - Yeah. - Oh yeah. - It was great. - Yeah. I used to hold up because it's all glass bricks and neon. - And then he went from merry-go-round to J.W. to jeans west. - Okay. Would you still get jeans at that point? - Yeah. You still get colored jeans. - Nice. - Red turquoise. - Nice. What was your favorite colored jeans? - Turquoise. We all do, we all do. - That's about the color. - Doing the Bartman. So yeah, the Simpsons was a great show. I watched this pretty much every week on Sunday nights as well. - Yeah. - I kind of checked out around the early 2000s. - Me too. - But by '94, I was definitely into the Simpsons. And this one is a romantic novel, inspires Marge's family discussion of love. But the stories told, seen in flashback, all seem to end in heartbreak. This is the one that tells like how Homer and Marge got together. - Oh, Marge met. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. - This is a very good one. - That was a good one. That was cute. - Yeah. - The real world. - The real world '94. - The real world. - The real world. - Which is the Boston cast. - From the beginning to the end, I was a real world fan into maybe like 2000s. - Yeah, 2000 I checked out of the real world. Absolutely. - Yeah. - That's hard. - '94, I believe, and it doesn't stay in here, but I'm pretty sure that's the Boston cast. - That's because I wanted to Google it before we started it. - So let's see. I wanted to know. - I think 1991 was New York. '92 is LA. - New York was great. '93 was in Francisco. You know what? '94 was London. - Yeah. - '94 had to be London. - Yeah, I feel like it was-- - Yeah, she's Google that. But this is my memory. Let's see how correct I was. I think '94 was London, '95 was Boston, '96 was San Diego, Miami, '96 was Miami, and then I think '97 was Seattle. - Seattle, yeah. - This is information that would be of use to no one. This will never come up. No one will ever ask me to listen. - Seattle was my favorite. - One of my favorites. - With David? - Yes. - Yeah. - With David and with the guy who smacked the chick. - Oh, yeah. - The girl with Lyme disease. - Oh, it's saying San Francisco. Yeah. - San Francisco's-- - I was just saying. I don't think it was London because I didn't watch London. - San Francisco was not '94. - That's what the people are saying. - What are you saying, Matt? - I'm looking at it. TV. - No. - World San Francisco. - '93 would have been San Francisco. - David Puck Ringi. - '94? - Yeah, '94. - What you're saying it was London? - Let's look. - This is riveting to people. - This is crazy. Yeah, this is-- because I have a lot to say about San Francisco. - I didn't like the San Francisco one. - I loved it. - Was it your favorite one? - No, but it was up there. Um, '95. - '95? - '95 was London. - '95? - All right, so I'm a year off. - Yeah. - So we're in San Francisco down in the real world. - Yeah, San Francisco. Rural world. Awesome. Let's talk about it. I-- Puck was the man. - You liked him? - I loved Puck. I didn't appreciate them kicking him out the house. - See, you was everything I hated in a human being. I loved everything about Puck, and I didn't-- - I didn't-- maybe I didn't see this when I get back into, like, fantasy. Maybe if I didn't know anyone like that, I was just, like, so, like, captivated by how disgusting he was and how he didn't see, like, anything wrong with it. - Right, right. - And, um, I think it made for great fun in the house as far as dynamics go. - Yeah, I mean, I think the reason that I sort of had an aversion to the San Francisco cast and in hindsight, I would easily watch it if you had a cast of people like that now, because now the show is just, like, dumb, a lot of people fighting. - Right. These were, like, dynamic people. - But, yeah, it was a true mixture of people from all different backgrounds, and it was kind of what the point of that show was. - This is around the time, though, with the real world where I hated the black person all the time. - Oh, he was a bit-- - A little wet blanket boring. - Yeah. - He was that guy with the dreadlocks and the awful band. - But they kept getting black people like that, and it was just, like, can you get, like, an engaging black person, please? - Yeah. - Well, Heather B in season one is great. - Heather B is great. - Great. - Heather B. - Heather B was great. I thought they kicked David out too quick for me to even finish it off. - Well, you did assault Tammy. - Oh, my God. No, he did it. And that makes me so angry. - I know he didn't. My favorite Tammy quote, "It wasn't not funny," but double negative that she didn't even know. I did love Tammy, though. - I might tell you, but, oh, my God, I hated Beth, and I just felt like Beth perpetuated that whole situation. - Beth, Beth. - Yeah. - And-- - With Beth L. - There's two Beths. - The terrible Beths. - Okay. - Beth was the lesbian. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - I hate Beth. - Yeah. - She perpetuated that whole situation. - Oh, yeah. That was Beth. She kissed her. - Yeah. And then that black cop came like, "You got to get out of here." And it just pissed me out. - Or there was the time, though, that David flipped out on John Brennan for not cleaning up his styrofoam. - Yeah. I remember that. - His styrofoam. Clean it up. - I do. - Yeah. - Well, he was putting his roller blades on. - But I liked this one. The cast on this one. You know what I think I like book? - Mohammed was terrible. - Yeah. - Mohammed was terrible. - He was the most boring person. - I was so happy when New Orleans came and they got David because I was like, "At least David's interesting." You know? But I think I like this one because Puck, I like Puck because everyone else was so boring now that I'm looking at them. - Yeah. - Everybody was boring. - Wait. - Wait. - He's a Hispanic Republican. - Boring. - He's very boring. - Mohammed. - Boring. - Judd Winick was boring. Although I like him now. - Yeah. - Boring. - He's boring. - He's very boring. - Yeah. - But it really wasn't. It was just like, okay, it's safe for Cisco and you're gay and you're an AIDS. And then he had a whack boyfriend. - Yeah. - Some was very... - But here's the thing though. - I just like Puck. - At the time that was interesting. - And I didn't like how they kicked him off via voicemail. - Wow. Fair enough. But at the time there was no one with AIDS on television. - This is true. - I mean, that was... - It was groundbreaking but him as a person, I was so bored by him. - Yeah. No, I... - I was just like, oh my God. - I was just like, oh my God. - I was so bored. But we can't discount. It's hard to put ourselves in that mindset from 20 years ago. - Yeah. - How crazy it was to see a character on television who's a real person. - And he died. - Who has AIDS and dies. And you see that journey. - Like you watch it. - No, no. It was powerful. - That was important. - It was powerful. - But I think in some ways that in Puck being such an asshole overshadowed everything else, which is kind of why it was boring. - Right. - And why the other cast members couldn't really stand out. - Yeah. - And we don't know what they didn't show. - Right. - Of those people. - Well, I think we needed Puck though. We needed butter and pickled scabs over the same. - But the problem is I think they tried to cast a Puck every season after that. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You know what I mean? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Someone who's an asshole. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, that's true. - Which kind of, you know, they got this formula after that. - That's true. - I did love the London cast. - London cast. - Which people complained it's boring. - The London was boring though. - Which one was? - The London was my least favorite. - Really? - Mm-hmm. - I thought Boston was my least favorite. - Boston. The only reason I liked Boston was when the chick got the kids drunk. I found that to be hilarious. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, she didn't understand why that was problematic. - She was really good at it. After school program. - For the YMCA. - They let some kids drink wine. - Drink wine. - And they were like, what? - Ten? - Yeah, it's just like, I don't get with the big deal. - What's the problem? - Yeah, that lady was an idiot. What an idiot. Yeah, I always watched the real world, but MTV aired stuff a million times. - Yeah. - So at 830, I mean, at, yeah, 830 on a Sunday, I probably would not have watched it. I would have been watching Hardball. So although I hate baseball, it was a new show on Fox that was sort of like a rip off of Major League. It was like a Major League. - I couldn't remember what the show was about. - Yeah. - So I was like, I don't think I watched it. Cause I was like, I couldn't remember it. So I was like, I don't think I was watching it. - Yeah, it was basically Major League, the TV series. It wasn't great, but I definitely would have watched it. Nine o'clock, what are you going with? - Married with children. - Did you watch this every week? - Yes, I did. - Did you love it? - I loved it. - Have you re-watched it since? - Yes. - And you still like it? - Mmm. Sorry, it's cartoonish. - Yeah, it's like I do for what it is, but I don't, it's not like a Cosby show. I don't like it like that. Like I watch Cosby show and I laugh and I laugh and I laugh. - What Cosby show is timeless. - Yeah. - Married with children is very obvious. - It's like, there's certain ones that I'm like, oh, I remember this one, it was great and it was funny. - And at this point, the show had been on for seven years. - Yeah, and I'm trying to see this one. So at this point, she's married Jefferson. - Oh yeah. Jefferson came in and season three. - Right. - So this episode is what most sitcoms, if they go long enough, end up with an episode in this genre. And it's the dream genre. And so this one, Bud's intent studying for a scholarship makes him periodically not off. So is the passionate encounter with Marci's niece a dream or real? - Yeah. - Yeah. - There's not very thought-provoking stuff. - No, it definitely is. - I don't know. I don't know. I was 12. - Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. I would have watched the network television premiere of Total Recall. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. That's the thing. - I would have loved it. I would have loved it. I loved it. I loved it. 9.30, what'd you go with? - I'm just watching MTV. - Just videos. - So I fall asleep. Videos and then beams and butt heads coming on. And like, liquid TV. - Liquid television was amazing. - Yeah, I was a big fan. The slate, which I love. - The state. - I mean, the state. Yeah, which I love. - I'd watch the slate. - The state, which was great. - Sunday night's MTV. I used to watch at midnight, 120 minutes. And that was where I heard all the music I loved. - Yeah, yeah. - And take it. Watch after school with a notebook. Write down everything. Yeah. Especially in '94. Especially in '94. - Yeah, absolutely. - MTV, yeah. - All right. So Monday night, eight o'clock. Sadest night of the week. - It's the best night of the week. - It's the best night of the week. - It's the best night of the week. - Best night of the week. - Best night of the week. - What'd you go with? - No, it was place. - So were you super into Marros? - I was addicted. - Did you watch 9-2-1-0? - Yes. - Model Zinc. - I started to, but I didn't really love Model Zinc. - I didn't really like any of that stuff. - I was just in that room. - Just in that room. - Just in that room. - What was it about Marros, place that you left? - Um, it was just so much going on. It was like, how could you nod? There was like six different stories going on at once. - You know the drama. - Allyson was molested. - Yeah. - The Sydney was stripping. Chick blew up Marros' place. - Was it a ball? - We should have waited. - Yeah. - She was a nutbag. - I don't always like tethered up. - Great. - But I never watched Marros' place. - First season? - Uh, once they got rid of the black girl that they had there for no apparent reason. - What, you did a black girl? - It was good. - Yeah. - Once they just got rid of her, like, okay, this was stupid. - Yeah. - 'Cause she never did anything. - Right. - She lived in the building and that's really it. - Right. - Like she was not a part of any wrong thing. - And also Andrew Shoe, I found boring. - I liked Andrew Shoe, 'cause they had that love thing going on. - I liked what I would see human interviews and stuff, but he just, when he went acting. - It didn't translate. - Yeah. - I could see that. - So this particular episode, Allyson doesn't like what she sees when she returns to work. - Sydney rejects an offer for partial freedom, so she's in jail or something, I'm assuming? - Sydney was just a mess. - Okay. - And this was when it was getting good, 'cause Sydney was trying to have sex with Doctor. What was the guy's name, the Doctor? - Oh, I don't know. I never watched Mario's place. - Yeah. Sydney was sleeping with the Doctor and the Doctor was messing with Kimberly and it was just correct. - And we have Reed's parents visit Joe. Jane gives Michael a new view on their past. Matt gives his opinion on Michael's hit and run to Kimberly, who answers with a threat, yeah, Woodward Wayne. - Yeah. - Oh, Kathy Ireland was on the show at this time. - Michael Mancini, that was the Doctor, and he was like a scumbag. - Okay. - And most doctors are. - Yeah, and Sydney was like, she was stripping, she was drugging, and Kimberly was like, Todd and Michael being a scumbag, 'cause he was sleeping around with Sydney behind her back, and he killed somebody. - When you go to strip clubs now, do you look at the women and go, maybe that's a Sydney. - No, but I should. - I should be doing that. - I should be doing that. - I should be doing that more. - I'm running fan fiction about them. - And I'd probably go less if I thought. - Yeah, you'd be paying a bunch of Sydney's. So I would not have watched this. I never watched The Nighttime soaps. I really couldn't get into the show. I would have been torn between two movies. So on TV38, the local UHF station here in the Boston area, they were showing overboard. The 1987 Goldie Han movie, which is one of my favorites. My wife, Rachel, watches that maybe twice a week still every week. Or there was a main for TV movie starring Kelly Martin, who was done with Life Goes On, but hadn't got her talk show yet, and it's called A Friend To Die For. They give it three stars, and it's on NBC, and it's a high school student's murder, rocks an upper middle-class town in this fact-based 1994 TV movie, The Victim, a popular yet snobbish teen named Stacey Lockwood, played by Tori Spellen of 90210. - This is all good stuff. - Yep, her uneasy relationship with a sensitive and studious classmate, who's Kelly Martin, is the key to the crime, which the teleplay links rather tenuously to intense social pressures at school and within the community. Valerie Harper is in it. I'm a huge fan of him. - This is all good stuff. - Once Craig in front of her was very embarrassing. Terry O'Quinn is in it, who later went on to be in a loss, but he had just done The Stepfather 2. This sounds fantastic. - Yeah, no, this sounds good. - Yeah, I wouldn't watch that. 9 o'clock, what'd you go with? - 9 o'clock. - I'm watching wrestling. - So you passed up Murphy Brown? - Because at this point, Murphy Brown's in syndication, I believe so. - You would have watched it then. - Yeah, I would have watched it another time. - This is a very special Murphy Brown scene. - I would have watched it another time. - A monkey yes stars in this episode of Murphy Brown. This is Murphy must kiss up to station executives at an affiliates meeting after she badmills her networks fall line up. And if you look at the ad here, I will show what she says, Murphy meets her match. Murphy takes on the networks new fall line up and winds up with a monkey. - Wow. - I don't know how that happens, but she somehow is in the custody. - I kind of feel like I remember that episode too. - So you're watching wrestling, did you love wrestling? - I loved wrestling. - WWF, WCW. - Both. - All of it. - I watched both. - Who's your favorite wrestler? - Of all time is the ultimate warrior. - Okay. - Favorite wrestler of all time. - Rest in peace. - It's all been wrestling live. - I did too. I saw him wrestle at the Garden. It was amazing. - I saw him wrestle Andre the Giant at the Boston Garden. - No, that's dope. I saw him wrestle Macho Man, but that was nice to see him wrestle Andre the Giant. Yeah, I was just a big wrestling fan ever since I was a kid. I watched wrestling. - Still watch it? - Not as much. I do here and there. Not as much. - I like Lucha Libre. - Yeah. - Lucha Libre is fun. - Yeah. And I've been watching Tokyo. - Yes. - That's the extremely practice jack and the landmine matches and the barbed wire matches. - Yeah. Those people are like nuts. - This is got a little too soap opera after a while for me. Like WWE and stuff. - Oh yeah. By '94 I had checked it. - This time is pretty good still. - So you're watching USA Network WWE for wrestling. It doesn't tell us what the matches are. I'm still watching that made for TV movie. I want to make you two at 10 o'clock I'm watching Northern Exposure, which I loved. - I didn't get it. - Loved it. - I didn't get it. - That's my nighttime soap. I always wanted to go to Alaska just because of Northern Australia. - Yeah. Like now if I'm an adult, I'm like, "Oh, this was great." You know? - It's a culture of you re-watching. - Yeah. - It's a good show. - But when I was younger, I was like, "I don't know what the hell's going on." - Tuesday night. Eight o'clock. - Full house. - Are you sticking with ABC all night? - No. - Okay. - No, I'm not. - So a full house tonight is Comet's come home, the gang's on the run because the dog's on the loose. They chose this as their season premiere for that week. The dog gets loose. Comet is kind of the exam. When Comet the dog came into the false universe, that's kind of when I stopped watching. - Yeah. - Not because I didn't like Comet, but that's what it represents when I was two. - Yeah, that's when you were just like, "Yeah, I can't get with this, you know." - I would have watched Wings, which I love. They moved it from Thursday nights to Tuesdays in 1994. Amy Yazback joined the cast who I love from prom. - My mom watched Wings. - Wings is great. Well, it makes sense if she's a fan of Cheers. - Yeah. - There was a lot of Cheers alum that really wings. - Oh, really? - I didn't realize that. - David Angel and a bunch of people from Lincoln. - Yeah, she watched Wings. Yeah. Wings is a very funny show. Full house. The eighth season opener when Jesse's kicked out of the band because he's distracted by all the things going on in his life. He assumes what comes focused on revenge. - They kicked them out of the rippers. - Yeah, it's no longer Jesse and the rippers, it's just the rippers. - Yeah. - It's a sad day. - It is a sad day. 830, what are you going with? - Comic view on BET. - So you're watching Stand Up? - Yes. - And was Comic View your go-to stand up show? - Yeah, at the time it was the only thing I had real access to given the time of day and stuff. You know? Like it came out on 830. Any other type of stand up was late, late. You know what I mean? Um, it was consistent because I couldn't watch Def Jam. You know? Def Jam was like... - Have you tried to watch that though? - Too late. When I was a kid, you know? - You had HBO. - Yeah, I had HBO. But Def Jam I thought came out Saturday. - HBO new room? - Yeah. - Wow. - I had all the channels. - Wow. - Yeah. - Really goly? - Yeah. - Because I had a black box. - Yeah, legally. - Yeah. - My mom was very paranoid about stuff like that. But no, they're going to find us. - Okay. - So she wouldn't do things like that. - She wouldn't do things like that. - You were watching like potentially inappropriate things. And she... - Like she was... - Like skin-a-max and that kind of stuff like that. - Sometimes. But she wasn't really strict with me about TV. She was strict with me about how I behaved. It was like you better be able to know the difference between reality and like... - So she didn't see a connection between the two? - No. - She's just like, you know, like know that this is a separate thing from like life. - Right. - I think and that's it. - So I didn't watch Comic View that often. It was... I didn't watch Def Jam either. I just couldn't... - It was very... - Okay, so the thing is, Def Jam, Comic View, all these like urban comedy shows, they were very... - It's like a formula. - Yeah. It was like geared to one like keel and like very formulaic and like, you know, you have to get up. You gotta talk about getting beaten. - Yeah. - You gotta tell... Now when I was young, when I was 12 and my mind wasn't like mature enough to like really wrap myself around deep concepts and like carlin-type material, it was just funny to me. - A lot of people that stood out to me as being like an interesting individual. - There wasn't any. It was just very much like... - There was a few. You would get some every now and then. - I think it was muscle to host though. - Yeah, but I remember the first time I saw Bernie Mack on the comedy channel. - Yeah, Bernie Mack. - Or Chris Tucker. - Yeah. - Chris Tucker stood out. - But like Bernie Mack was still talking about the same topics that would all, you know, getting beaten, all that stuff. But for whatever reason, I remember when I saw him on Def Comics, I was like, this guy is different. - Yeah. - Like something... He's got something else going on. - Yeah. - But that's just the time when like they just, you know... - Like deep from the real world? Terrible thing. - Right. - He was like the most generic. He was like leaping Lenny from WWF. - Yeah, but I wanted him to make it. - But he just wasn't... - I was good. - He wasn't. And they would like follow him around. - Yeah, it was helpful. - I wanted him to make it. - Yeah. - I did. - Yeah. - I wanted David to make it. - I would not have watched. - He was in House Party 3. - He was, so was Boston comedian Chance Langton. - Was it? - Oh yeah. - Who was he doing in House Party 3? - He's just one of the professors I believe. - He's in House Party 3. - Oh, two. - Is he two? - Two. - Yeah. - A dark skin guy with the boxer cut? - No, Chance Langton, white guy. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I met him. - Yeah, I think he's in House Party 3. - Yeah, I met him. I met him. - Yeah, we can confirm which House Party he's in, but I know he's in a House Party. - Cool. - So we're at 8.30. I'm watching the Martin Short Show, which was Martin Short's very short-lived sitcom. And this was on NBC. And this is a luckless Marty, drops Big Box in a high-stakes poker game with some Hollywood hot shots, including Bruno Kirby playing himself. I love Martin Short. He's from STTV, one of my favorite sketch shows of all time. He's just a weird, funny guy. - I like Martin Short. - Fantastic. 9 o'clock would you go with? - Home Improvement. - Oh, Sam. - Why are you disappointed in him? - Home Improvement. - It was funny. - It's not. It's not. Have you ever watched it? - First of all, I like J.T. T.T. - I never met a girl that, in our age range, that doesn't like J.T.T.T and I'm shocked by that. - What did you like about him? - First of all, I have a long history of crushes on Babyface White Boys. - Okay. - I was very into French Savage. - Okay. - I just, I like those types. - And I like Babyface. - I like that. - The actual Babyface. - I like those types. So J.T.T. was just, you know, he was cute. - I thought he was a weird looking kid. - He was very cute. - I don't know. - He was, I like, I thought it was like, I like by white men classic, like blonde and blue, like he was blonde and blue, that's why I like it. - Well, did he have blue eyes? I always feel like he had just black solids. - No, no, no. He had blue or green. - Are you thinking of the blonde older kid? That's not J.T.T. - No. - The goofy dumb one? - No, no, no. I'm thinking of J.T. The youngster and part one, who I was into. They had the like kind of a problem. - Did you go see his movies? - No. - Okay, so you weren't that in. - No, no, I wasn't crazy. - So in this particular episode, a two-time special puts Tim in the cab of a hydraulic crane. What's gonna happen? - He drops a three-ton beam on Jill's car. - Oh no. - Well, that's one way to eliminate that scratch Tim was gonna have to repair. - Yeah. - Whoa, whoa, whoa. - How you not wanna watch that? - Oh, it was the worst version. - It was great. And then you had a who's his partner who was smarter than him. - Al. - Al, right? - Yeah. - Great. - Al Borlin. - I like to film him. - Richard Carn. - Yeah, I like to film him. - I can't do it. I would've been watching kids in the hall. - See? - And the adult me says kids in the hall, but I had to be true to what I really really been watching. - Fair enough. Fair enough. - You know, 'cause I saw kids in the hall and I was like, hmm, I liked it, but I didn't really start watching kids in the hall until I was older. - Yeah. I loved it. I was watching it forever. - At 12, I was, and I would watch it like late. For some reason, I remember like, it was-- - You still was on late. - Yeah. That's why I used to watch it in the summer really late at night. - Yeah, this is a comedy central rewrite. Here in America, it aired on HBO first. - Right. And that's when I used to watch it. And I just had to be true, 12-year-old Sam is watching Home In Street. - Fair enough. Fair enough. You stand and buy it at 9.30. What'd you go with? - I just watched Grace Under Fire 'cause it was just on. I didn't-- - It wasn't a badge. - It wasn't bad. - It wasn't bad. And it was very much in the Roseanne vein, which makes sense. - Yeah. - It was a lot of behind-the-scenes people. - Right. - Prep Butler's sort of onstage persona was sort of Roseanne-ish. I had Dave Thomas, also of S.E.T.V. And this episode, Grace Ty tries to diffuse the situation when a new woman on the crew files a sexual discrimination grievance against Bill. Sounds a little boring. - Yeah. I ought to watch it just 'cause-- - I would have normally watched it if there was nothing else against it that I really liked, but John Lara Cat was on, which was an amazing, amazing sitcom. This was season one of John Lara Cat-- - I loved him from Night Court, but I wasn't watching his show. I feel like that show was just too adult for me. - It was very grim. It was very dark. - Yeah. I wasn't watching the show. - It was about an alcoholic. Is the manager of bus station? - Yeah, I wasn't watching the show. - It's a sad show. - But I did like him from Night Court. - Oh yeah, I mean, I love him and anything he's ever done. Wednesday night, eight o'clock, what'd you go with? - Wednesday night, Beverly Hills Mountain, of course. - So you're with the Aaron Spelling Show as all night? - This is Beverly Hills time. - It's that time. - Like there's nothing else I would rather be watching. - And eight o'clock, so did you watch all, like, every season of it? You watched it. - Pretty much. I didn't really abandon Beverly Hills on a 20-0 until way late. I would pretty much start off. - 'Cause that's the show that ended. - I took a year off in protest. - Okay. - I did do that. - What was the thing that sparked your protest? - Tori Spelling was supposed to give it up to Brian Austin Green. - She did. - And she did not. And I was livid. And at that point, I just didn't like what he was doing. 'Cause I felt like Aaron Spelling, you know, everybody screwing on the show. And everybody screwing on the show and you just don't want your daughter to get screwed. - No, I don't really want to picture or think of Tori Spelling having sex. - I didn't want to, but I just felt like how come everybody else can be a whore? - Bait and switch. You felt like you got lied to it. - Yeah. And it's like everybody else could do it. - Fair enough. - Everybody's doing it. For some reason, 'cause she's your daughter. She can't be doing it. - If you had a daughter and you were producing a show, would you want to shoot an episode where she has sex? - No. - Yeah. - But the young me didn't care. I was just, I had enough. - I had enough. - I had enough. - This particular episode, what brought you back? - I couldn't really stay away. You were just not alone. - You were having like the DTS. So this episode, David finds a woman too close to home for Donna's liking until she finds a new man herself. Brandon has trouble handling his personal loss. - Oh, so this is what she meant to do from the pumpkin patting. - Yep. And his challenge was political position, agrees the ground rules were dealing. - Mm. - Yeah, I don't know anything about this. - Yeah. Well, I know all about it. - I wouldn't watch this show. Fair enough. I wouldn't watch the show that I never watched at the time. But I recently did an episode with a cast member from this show. And it sounded great. And I wish that I had watched it then. It was called Thunder Alley. - No. - No? - I don't know about that. - No? - Thunder Alley's Ed Asner and Haley Joel Osmond. - That's interesting. - And Jim Beaver. - That's interesting. - Yeah. - That's a part of Jim Beaver. It's a sitcom. The odds are good that there will be trouble in the Turner household when Gil takes the kids out of school to go to the racetrack. I like that. That's legitimately something that happened to me as a kid. - Really? - Yeah. My girlfriend took me to, we'd take her to school and we'd go to the racetrack at Bad on Horses. Yeah. You know what? My aunt used to do. I'd get called down to the principal's office, like with a family emergency. - Right. - So I'd be like, "Oh, who died?" And my aunt would be like, "We have to go. We have to go to the hospital." So I'm like, "What the hell? Like, who's sick?" We'd get in the car and she's like, "We're going to the movies." And I was like, "I don't want to go to the movies with you." And we'd go to the movies. - That's pretty awesome. - But sort of, but no one thinks someone's dead. - Well, Beverly, I didn't want to make a point about no two and no. - Okay. - This is such a big part of who I am as a person in my life. - Which not to offend you is surprising. I wouldn't say that. - Oh no, yeah. - Knowing you. I wouldn't be like, "I bet nine or two when I was a big part of Sam's life." - Big part of my life. And I appreciated Aaron Spellman's rebound because I was so upset that he didn't let her do it. - Right. - But then, like, he had mad crazy stuff happen to her. - He let her do too much stuff. - Yeah. They got crazy. You had them pumpkin. That's what I called them, right? - Yeah. - Because she met him at a pumpkin patch. - Okay. - He was beating her up and stuff, like, going around the stairs. It got real crazy. - It's where they were going to be like, "I won't let my daughter have sex on me." - Right. But you get the shit get done. - Exactly. It got crazy. And I think it was like, there had to be some form of out-crop people like, "Why isn't her character?" Because her character really never did much of it. - It was very good to get it. - Right. Like, everyone was on Coke and it was just crazy. It was insane. - I guess again, this show, I know at the time I felt like it sort of lionized behavior that I hated in kids my age. - Mm. See, I didn't know anybody doing this kind of stuff. - There was co-cads at my school. - No, I had no idea. Like... - They did rapey douchebag. - None of that was happening. So I was just like, "Oh my God, this is so entertaining." - Wow. - Yeah. - I remember the kid shot himself. They sprinted. - Oh yeah. - 'Cause he was flipping the gun around. - Oh my God. - You do so, man. - Yeah. - I remember that. I remember that. - What? - 'Cause there were people on the Friday after that, 'cause this one was on Thursday nights, I think, that were legitimately upset. Like they were crying 'cause it's been kind of interesting. And I had seen, he was doing like, like a lone range of gun spinning and he shot himself. And I remember... - It was sad. I was upset about it. - 'Cause see, and that character also was just introduced to them. - No, he was only there for a day out here. - Yeah, yeah. - But I was very torn up about it. - I remember these girls at school really upset. - No, I was too. And I was like, whoa, you're like flipping the gun around and like acting it out. - It wasn't setting. - They started crying. They told on the principal to me, and they were just like, are you making fun of someone they know that died? And they're like, no. I'm making fun of a show they watch most of them. And then the person was like, stop doing it, get out of it. Yeah. That one specifically I remember. 8.30 I would have gone with All-American Girl, which was Margaret Cho's short live sitcom. I really enjoyed her stand up at the time and I never watched it. Not a great show. So miserable for her as she has documented many times. - Yeah. No, I've seen it once or twice, but it wasn't. I liked her. I liked her stand up. - It's very different from her stand. - Yeah. Her stand up was great. She had that joke and she'd kill me about her grandmother's son, her dildo, and thinking it was a curling iron. - Yes, yes. - It's great. It's happened to all of us. - It's awesome. - Nine o'clock we go with. - Roseanne. - Love Roseanne. - Mm-hmm. - Just a perfect, perfect sitcom. One of my all time favorites. Dan isn't the only one who's a wreck about Roseanne's pregnancy. It did start to go a little downhill here when Roseanne got pregnant. She was at the height of her, like, public, crazy whatever. - Right, right. - It was still an enjoyable show. - It was so good. - I would have watched it. - I really didn't like the idea of her and Dan doing it, but what I learned. - No, but if it was to her spelling and Dan, you would have been okay. - Yep. - Yeah, fair enough. - Definitely. - But I like the idea that there was a television show with people who looked like what most Americans looked like and they were doing it. - No, and I like that. Yeah, I liked the idea and I liked how real it was, like, what everybody liked about Roseanne. Like, I like the fact that it was like, we can't afford this baby. - We're gonna lose the house. - Yeah, not for the baby. - Yeah, not like, oh, yay, baby coming, but the reality, like, some people don't want a baby. You know what I mean? Like a problem. - Absolutely. - You know? So I thought that was really great. - Don't let your baby play with a gun. - So, and I would have passed up models, Inc. in favor of Roseanne, and I did love models, Inc. and watch it every week. Nine, four. - Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, you're not just gonna jump over that? - No, you can't because you criticized by Beverly Hills Choice, my Marrels Place Choice, but you watched models, Inc. - Let me tell you something about Ken Raiden models. I ever since I was little, love the world of modeling, not a fashion, but not only like, oh, yeah, like, Letcher is wet, I just thought it was fascinating. And I knew who the designers were, and all the supermodels, and I used to watch House of Style every week, it was my favorite show on MTV. It was amazing. - You are interesting, Inc. - It's a little strange, isn't it? - Yes. - The models, Inc. is very excited about... - I do remember when I was so amazing when they changed the shampoo and turned the girl's hair green. - Yes. - That was a good one. - Yes. - That was a pretty good one. In a classic sitcom plot, going back to the Brady Bunch when Great Center turns green. And a movie called The Boy with the Green Hair, which is from the 60s, which is a very weird, sort of anti-war movie, that stars Dean Stockwell from Quantum Leap. - Yeah. - As a kid. - Interesting. - Very weird movie, yeah. Great movie, strange movie. Yeah, so models, Inc. This is kind of a fun show. Models. I used to watch VIT. - That's weird. - Yeah, it is interesting. - A little weird. 9.30, what are you going with? - I had a question on how to walk with you, by the way. Who did this? - That was another, like, girl crush that I had. - I feel like every human being on Earth, regardless. - How about this? - Yeah. - It's heaven walklier. - She's hot. - Who doesn't like heaven walklier? - Which was only because I watched models like at all, because I was like, "Forget it. She's on it." - Yeah, fair enough. Have you ever seen Return of Swamp Thing? - No. - Good Heather Walkler content? - Okay. - Yeah, I should watch that. - That's a fun movie. - Fun movie. She's funny in it as well. 9.30? - M.T.P. - You just going back to MTV? - Yeah. - Videos. - Yeah, this video is incredible. It's a show actually called Videos in Crown. Now, I think I probably would have gone with Ellen. - I could have gone ahead. - Yeah, I could have gone ahead. - I could have loved it. - I couldn't get into it. - I loved it. - I'll tell you what. - It's so good. It's so good. - Videos in Bud, it was the only time they would show a lot of videos I liked, and I would be really annoyed that they'd be talking. - I'm talking over the video. - Yes, exactly. - It's such an old man. - I don't know. It's not bad now. I always have been, so I'm consistent. I'm at least consistent. Thursday night, 8 o'clock. - Martin. - Martin. - You loved Martin. - Loved Martin. - Couldn't get into Martin. - Let's talk about how great Martin was. You know what? This is the thing. Some people criticize Martin because they're like, it was a lot of like, stick and over the top acting. - Silly. - And silly stuff. - I hate it, you name it. - And the characters and all that stuff. But for me, I thought he did that stuff so well. Like it was in the tradition of like older sitcoms, you know? - Like what? - Like the way it was played up. But I'm trying to think of like some that I can think of. - So like you can even get into it with like, Shenae-Nae and all that stuff. - Hilarious. - Hilarious. - It was so cartoon. - Martin is still like a show I can watch now. - Did you ever re-watch it? - Yes. And die left. - Did you like his stand up? - First one, yes. - Okay. - Second one, no. - Yeah. Because the show is very different from his stand up. - Yeah, but I thought he did the characters well. - Yeah, I mean I agree with you on that. I just did not have the characters. - Like the little kid, the kung fu dude. - Yeah. - A little hilarious. It was just too strong. - It was just too strong. Otis. - Broad for me. - And then the other like Tracy Moyen as hustle man. - Yeah. - This is a man for the floor. - Disencharted with a single scene at Nipsey's. Martin and Liss the aid of Otis and Pam to help when Gina back. - Mmm. - And they had like a good, you know what also was too? Like they were a young, like they were a young love but it was like quality. Like you really felt like Martin and Gina loved each other. - But you know, I really liked Gina. - Yeah. - And when I was watching her I'd be like she needed better than this. I really thought that. I really thought that. - Who thought that? - I thought that. You didn't think she could do better than Martin? - I don't remember anyone saying that. - He was like the loser and she was like kind of successful. You know, she was, she could have done so much better than she was keeping him a float. - Good read is officially a hater. - Yeah. Absolutely. You don't think Gina could, if you don't think Gina could have done better than Martin. - That was real love. That was real love. And it was like young, it was like young hip-hop hour love. And that's what I liked about it. - Like poetic justice. - Yeah. - See, I saw that cause I love Jane Jackson. - Jane Jackson is like my favorite. - Yes. - And we discussed before. I think she's the better Jackson. - She is. She's the best one. - I saw poetic justice and I was like, uh, Tupac, you are not nearly good enough. - So you're a hater. - You are not new. - Is that what a hater is? - Yeah. - I don't know what that is. Is that someone who just hates dudes who are dating women? - Yes. - That's a hater? - You don't think Jane Jackson could have done better than Tupac? - I hate it. - I hate it as a dude who's like, you can do better than that guy. - But I'm right. I don't think I'm an everyone. Just Jane Jackson and then Gina. - That was, Gina, that was quality. Martin was good for her. - You think that he could have done better than her? - Probably not. - No. - Probably. - He was lucky to have her. - But it was like, especially if you were a house party fan, it was good to see them together. Acting together in a role. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? - You don't see all the house party movies in the theater? - I didn't see any women theater at all. - Really? - I saw all of them in the theater. And I saw BayMays kids in the theater. - I saw BayMays kids in the theater. - And I was good. - Robin Harris. - Yeah. That was great. - Yeah. I wouldn't have gone with Martin. Normally I would have gone mad about you, which was probably as far from Martin as you can get in the show. - Yeah. - But a really smart, funny show. Maybe I think the most underrated sitcom in the 90s. - I watched it old. - It's funny. - And I enjoyed it. - It's funny, but this was the one year that Thursday nights were my so-called life night. And I've discussed this before, but my so-called life was a show that I watched from day one, because I loved 30-something. It was about characters that were my age at that time. It's about a 14-year-old girl. I was a 14-year-old, not a girl, but close. And some more haircut. And I love the show. It just captured what it felt like for me exactly at that time. - It was a show. - And when I watch it now, it's like looking through a high school yearbook or something. Like I have those sorts of, it was sort of my what I wanted my high school to be like by proxy. - Right. - And it was a girl that I had a crush on at my high school, only when I had a crush on high school. And every Friday I- - It's sort of similar. - Sort of similar. - Yeah. - Sort of similar. Kevin, what's his name that created Dawson's Creek and wrote the Scream movies? Kevin Williamson. He based Dawson's Creek on a show called James at 15. He was a '70s show set in Boston. And I love James at 15. So I watched Dawson's Creek and I was just kind of disappointed with it. Because it was about sort of rich kids in the south. - I was so good. - But my soul called Life. - Yeah, no, that was a real show. - Yeah. And I got to talk to this girl every Friday. - And I had the gay character. - Yeah. Ricky. - Well. - Which they never really talked about him being gay. It wasn't a huge deal. It was obvious that everybody. - Yeah. It was like, that was a good, like, this is when the gay stuff was happening kind of. You know? - I pull a quote for the end of the episode. I picked out a beat. - It was like, okay. - It was when mainstream started. - Right. And it was like, this is something we need to talk about or something. But it was always like a huge deal. Like a gay episode would be like two episodes. - Yeah. - It would be like a to be continued. - Some shows. - Like the chicken kiss. - Like the chicken kiss from Zane. - Yeah. - And it was like, oh my God. - Yeah. I think the difference was, at this time in the '90s, was it was sort of a progressive time. You know, you had Clinton and the White House and all this stuff. But you did have gay characters on television prior to this, but they were always a figure of fun. They were the butt of jokes. No pun intended. - Right. Or they were like gay, but they wouldn't say out. - Yeah. - Okay. Like Anthony from Designing Women. - Yeah. You'd be laughing at their femininity basis. - Right. Like, Anthony was definitely gay. - Yeah. Yeah. But they were just like, he's been to prison and he's southern. - Yeah. Exactly. - Yeah. - Well, you know, Uncle Arthur from Bewid. I mean, there's a ton of these characters. - Yeah. - And this time you started getting gay characters and dramas and, you know, presented just as a real person. - Yeah. - They're not a punch line. - Right. - And that was interesting. - Definitely. - Yeah. And I agree that that character was like a lot of kids at high school. There was definitely the gay kid. - Yeah. - Who now probably is out of the closet and doesn't, boy, it doesn't care. - Doesn't care. - But, you know, there was a kid in every grade that probably... - Yeah. - I feel like it was, I grew up in a great time in that sense that like, by the time I was like, in high school, there were gay straight alliances happening in schools and like... - Right. - You had a support. - Right. And I was in the GSA. I was on the straight side because that's what I thought I was at the time. - But... - Did you really think that? - Yeah. I had a boyfriend. I had a boyfriend for the time I was 15 until I was like 22. - So what? - 23. - Maybe. - What trait? Like when did you decide it was... - You know what? I think it was more of a... When you, when you meet someone that young, you know, you're still developing and figuring stuff out. And so it was like, he was the only person I was with, you know what I mean? And then we lost our virginity to each other at like 18. - Right. - So it was the person, not the judge. - And it was exactly. It was him. I just really, really loved him. And then once we worked together and I'm like, out exploring like the world, I'm like, "I think I'm really that into God." - Yeah. - Like, I'm just not really that attracted to God, I don't really find that connection with God. - Is that gross? - And then I had, they put it, they made me show. And then it was like, maybe I like girls, it was really one of these like... - Yeah. But it wasn't like, "Oh my God, maybe it was kind of like you." - No. And then because at that point, I was such a solo person, you know, my mom had died. Like I said, so I was really out in this world on my own. - Right. - So the only opinion at that point that mattered to me was mine. - Do you think if your mom had been still alive, you would have been less likely? - Yes. - 'Cause you don't think she would have been? - No. - Really? - No. She would have eventually, like, if my mom was alive, I'd still have long hair. I would never cut my hair. Like, I'd be gay, but there would just be things I would not do. - Do you be really gay? - Yeah, because she would be completely just offended by any of that. - That is not my daughter who I had. You know what I mean? - That's interesting. - Yeah. So no, definitely not. I'm just like a sporty girl. - Right. - Like a lot of basketball shorts. - Yeah. Looney tunes. - Mm-hmm. - Looney tunes. - In a ponytail. - Fair enough. Yeah, yeah. - Mm-hmm. - What kind of sneakers did you have? - Patrick Ewing. - Oh, Patrick Ewing. - Yeah. - Yeah. - You're gay. - I used to wear them with my uniform. My Catholic school skirt. - And they were cool with that? - Yeah. They, you could wear any shoe you wanted. - Really? - Yeah. They wanted uniforms. And interesting. The shoe was not part of the uniform. - No. - Did kids really push the rules on them? - Yeah. And you could wear any like shirt. Like I used to get the polo shirts. - Right. - But then they said that like the poor kids who couldn't get polo shirts were filling some kind of way. And so they like... - You had t-shirts? - The... We have like a button-ups. - Oh, good idea. - But you had different colors. Like yellow, blue, but I would get polo ones. - Right. - And then they were like, I'm, you know, all of the kids go to the uniform store. - Right. - And they would appreciate if I would follow suit. - So they were like, stop oppressing these kids with your rich, hoity toity. - Yeah. And my mom would bring me McDonald's and they told she couldn't do that. - She would bring you McDonald's to school? - Sometimes, yeah. And they were like, "Mash, you can't do that." - I was. - I was. - Maybe you were possessed by it. - I'm so worried. Eight-thirty on Thursday night, what are you going on? - Living single. - Now living single, I loved. - Great. - It was a great show. But those characters seem real. - I get it. - I'm like Martin. You know, Martin was... - No, Martin was just... - You were just strictly comic relief. - Yeah. - Like, I thought it was just a lot. Like, I love David Allen Graham's Reverend Lonnie Lowe's. - I liked David Allen Graham too, but I feel like Martin had no heart. - I could see that. - That's what bothered me. - I could see that. - It had no heart. It seemed like a very superficial show. - I could see that. - And living single, I was like, "These people are friends. This makes sense. The relationships make sense." - And then going along with the other choices you've made, I could see why you would need that in the show. - Yeah. Yeah. I think if something was just purely cool... - Or as I like the home improvement. So you can see why I don't... - Yeah. - You don't need that. And living single... And I still contend that living single was ripped off by NBC, who made friends, which is the right living single. - Yeah. - That's all it is. - And you know what? Now we're back to being friends, Ken, because I agree. - Yeah. It's a complete rip off of living single. It's not as good as living single in any way. - Yeah. - And it never does. - The audience that living single got. And living single was a better show. - Yeah, it was. It's a bally show. I didn't miss that time in television where Fox was perpetuating quality black shows. - But I think it wasn't by design. I think it was because no one else was. - Yeah. - It's our market that could make money. - Right. But even now, even back then with movies, I just felt like even the black movies that were coming out were better. You know, even now, it's like you can look a lot of like, I don't know. - Soulplane. - Yeah. Exactly. And it's just like the... It was like they were really... - I think we've gone backwards in a lot of ways. - Right. The movies you had... Well, it actually goes back to the 1930s. You had these movies called Race Movies that were all black cast movies. And some of them were good because no one was... - Like Carmen and so... - I knew like you had Westerns with all black cast. You had this movie called the Bronze Buckaroo. You had pretty much any genre, but with all black actors. And to a degree, some of the movies ended up being great because they were also sort of produced by black people for a black audience. And so it was, you know, we're just making good movies. And then once you started getting into like the 70s black exploitation, a lot of those were made by white people with an all black cast. And it was... - Right. - Here's what we think black audiences want. - One. - And then you have people who grew up on that and it becomes what they want. - Exactly. - So you kind of had people that grew up with that in the 70s. - And it was... - That's how I felt about BET. - Yeah. - But it was like BET was a good channel when Bob Johnson owned it. - Yeah. - And it was a teen summit and you had programming that. - Yeah. - It was smart. - It was smart. - Yeah. - And then MTV bought it and they were like, this is what black people like. - Here's what you want. - Yeah. And it's like, no. Like there's no more BET news. They took that of it. - But the problem is, I think that if you do that long enough, it does become like that. - Right. That's what I'm saying. And now it's like, yeah, this isn't what we want. - Yeah. - But it's like, because the option... - Well, in the 90s, you had, I mean, like poetic justice, you had, you know, John Singleton and the Hughes Brothers and all these amazing black directors and writers. And despite Lee, I never, he was always pretty clownish, but you know, it was one of the first guys that sort of set that path going, but you had them making serious, interesting movies. - Right. - And then I think the thing that sort of started to change that was like the Friday movies. - Mm-hmm. - And you started seeing it switch with like Friday and a barber shop. - Yeah, but... - It was weird or something. - It was still interesting. - Yeah, because I'm like, Friday was such a good movie. - The first one. - The first one. - The first... Wow, we can get sent on this. Friday after next. - It starts to slide. - Friday after next is pretty amazing. - But it starts to slide. - Friday after next is pretty amazing. It might be my favorite Friday. - Yeah. - But it was so funny, you know, and it was good. - But you can see the tone shift, if you ask them, like that's a good example of something coming out of that 90s way, like you had a movie called Tales from the Hood, which was... - Yeah, terrible. - But it was good. - It was good. - It was well made. - I was scared. - It was a smart movie. - I was scared of the one with dolls. - Yes, yeah, yeah, the little booty dolls. - Yeah. - You know, like fear of a black hat. - Mm-hmm. - See before, which were like spinal tap. - Right. - Really funny smart movies in like Hollywood Shuffle and all these things. - Yeah. - And then you get like white girls. - Yeah. - And that's soul planning. - Right. - And a little man. - Right, and then Medea like takes over. - And it was just terrible. - They're terrible. - They're awful. - I totally agree. - And it's like, why are we bothering with this stuff? - I don't know. And that's what stinks. But I think what happened at Fox then was they said, hey, look, we don't, we need to be a network different from the other three networks. We also don't have a lot of money. So a lot of people got a chance to do something interesting. - Right. - And you had shows created by a starring black people. - Yeah. - That weren't sort of being run by a person who says, here's the black show I would like. - Right. - And you got stuff like rock. And you got stuff like living single. - And I think it's also this idea like with, I mean, we can, we talk about this a lot, but I think it's also this idea of like people kind of like age out and aren't doing the work. And it's just like this whole like letting one black person at a time do stuff. - Right. - So it's like, you know what I mean? We're only going to do a piece of- - Once that person's gone, and someone else gets- - Right. - Because I'm thinking like, girl, like we had Boomerang, we had this, we had that. - Yeah. - But I'm like, dang, so much that stuff Eddie Murphy was behind. - Yeah. And he is on production company. And yeah. - Boom. You know what I'm saying? So I think that plays a role in it too. - Yeah. You have less people being the tastemakers. And I was the only white guy making stuff. - Right. - Oh no. - Right. Exactly. - Yeah, because I mean, little man is just as bad as. - Yeah. That's what I'm saying. But we have like two or three people that are making things. - Yeah. - And I was like, the Wayne's in Tyler Perry. So if you're not being filtered through one of these two, either through him producing it, backing it, or writing it, then it's like- - Yeah, and you wonder why there's less opportunities, because those are established people. And even Tyler Perry sort of established himself in the midnight. - Right. - You know, when's, who's the new person, there's not been anyone to come take the mantle of that stuff. And you know, I wish there wasn't a mantle, and we just get stuff. But I mean, you know, I think there's less stuff being made generally, and there's less risks being taken. - Right. - So they're making things that they think will make money. - Yep. - And because soul plane made money, they're going to make something too. - Yeah, it's like, if we go and we supported them. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - But living single, great show. - This is an awesome show. I love everything about it. - Oh, I absolutely did too. And I watched it the whole time. - Great comedic timing with Overton and anybody he would really interact with. - It was such a good ensemble cast, like it was a really great ensemble cast. And on the Thursday night in '94, it was directly against friends. - Mm. - It was up against friends. And I remember I watched it every week and kids would watch friends. And on Friday, I was like, you're dumb. No one agreed with me. No one agreed with me. So nine o'clock would you go with? - New York undercover. - Really? Did you watch this every week? - Yes. - Well, this is after a popular college student is killed, Williams and Torres discover that the deceased had been selling marijuana and had also a juvenile record. - Mm. - So you like these police procedural shows? - Um, New York undercover was dope because New York undercover incorporated hip-hop, the hip-hop culture with like a cop detective drama with like urban stories, like stuff that would happen in your neighborhood. You know what I'm saying? - So in this case, it's the exact opposite of everything else you were watching. - Yeah. - Like, you know, like, they would have that club that they would go to at the end as Thales or something like that and it would like, Mary J. Blod is performing. - Yeah, yeah. - It was performing. And that was performing. So you had that aspect of like, the music I was listening to at the time and then like, they would dress Tommy Hilfiger and like- - So this was like, you're my so-called man. - Yeah, like, they were Tommy Hilfiger and stuff. - Yeah, yeah. - You know what I mean? And then it was like, these were interesting stories. Like, stories I could relate to, but it was still, I thought the acting was good. - Yeah, there was definitely a quality show. - Yeah, I thought it was a great show. - You know what- - And that story was good like, Malik Yoba, I mean, and his son, G, and the other- - The ongoing arc. - The ongoing arc of that and the father with the being the- - Booze, dude. - It just shows that doesn't get a lot of love these days and it was one of the best shows of that crop of police. - Yeah. - That now everyone's like, you know, homicide and- - Yeah. - On order. They all kind of started around the same time. And I do think New York kinda cover was probably the best of those shows. - Right. And the intros were always dope. Like, the beginning was always hard. It would be like the music- - Yeah, the music would be ill. - Yeah, yeah. - And you just see, like, a foot step in a puddle. - Right, right. - Like, something drop on the ground. You're like, oh! - Yeah. - It's getting crazy. - And again, it showed that it had a very- of its time aesthetic, but in a good way. - Yeah. - It makes it not seem as dated. - Yeah. It was dope. I remember one episode, Taurus had a Tommy Hilfiger shirt that I had. Definitely wore that to school. - Yeah. - I definitely wore that to school. - Yeah. - I definitely wore that to school next time. - Everyone was like- - Everyone was like, "Oh, that's always- - Really? - Yeah, I would have watched Seinfeld. - Seinfeld, you can probably call New York over color. - Our Thursdays are like- - Oh, yeah, they're very different. - Yeah. - We're watching "Living Single." - We are. - They're both watching "Living Single." This one, "Cramer Furos, a golf dispute, has pushed his opponent to murder. George gets no credit for buying Elaine's lunch, Jerry dates a woman whom Newman rejected." - You want to look absolutely hilarious about, like, I love Seinfeld, right? But it's another shot. It's our watching time. It's older. - Right. - But we had this friend, my friend, Anthony Scofield, who lives in the same neighborhood. And he would constantly talk about how hilarious Seinfeld was. - Right. - And he'd be like, "You guys don't want Seinfeld? You're so dumb. It's great." And we'd be like, "Yo, who's- - It's New York under cover hour. - Yeah. - Like, everybody- - Like, what is more than one accord? - Yeah. - We were watching New York under cover. Like, no one's watching Seinfeld. And one day I heard about playing basketball and he was like, "I dip my head in oil and rub it all over the body." And we were like, "What are you talking about?" - You know what, I tried to re-watch it as an adult, I couldn't. I tried to last week. I was like, "Oh, I'm not just watching Mad Seinfeld." I had smoked a J, and I was like, "This is going to be great," and I was just like, "I don't really care." - Yeah. - Yeah. So, 9/30, you're still watching this. - I would have watched Mad Men of the People, which was Dabney Coleman's yet another Phil of the 10th at a sitcom for Dabney Coleman. Good show. Good show. And 10, I definitely want to watch ER. Love. I watched the ER for like the first eight seasons every single week. - I knew it was a thing, but I wasn't watching it. - Fair enough. Friday night, the final night of the week, 8 o'clock, what are you going on with? - I have four letters, T-G-I-F, that's all I'm doing. I don't need to turn the channel- - You're locked into ABC. - That's it. - T-G-I-F. So, 8 o'clock, you're watching Family Matters. - Oh, cool. - A show that I liked the first two seasons by the time I became the Erkle show, absolutely despised. - No, love it. - See, I couldn't stand that. - What is wrong with you? - Like, cool isn't like Stephane or Kel? - That was the worst. - What? - So, here's my problem. - What? - Now, the show started as a good blue-collar sitcom about a family. - This is your thing. You like these, uh, least-core family? - Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a show about a family. And then, after the end of the first season, the stupid neighbor comes in and now the show becomes about this nerdy black kid and who invents a time machine and a body-swapping machine. - Come on. - And then, oh, it's just a problem. - Stephane Erkle? - Oh, but here's the other thing about Stephane Erkle that really bothered me. Jaleel White is a nerd. He's a nerdy dude. And so, he would go on every single TV show. He could go on and be like, "Well, it's a character and I'm not really like that at all." So, it's so funny that I'm Erkle because it's totally not likely, which is not true. And then he made them make the Stephane Erkle character so that he could be like, "This is like the real me." - Oh, he forced it? - Yeah. - Oh, it still was great. I was all about Stephane Erkle. - This one is the conclusion of a two-parter. Unwilling to go on as Stephane Erkle, Steve is intent on changing back into his old self, whether it pleases along or not. - And I'm definitely watching this one. Like, I was waiting all week for this. It's like what I'm doing. I'm waiting all week for the conclusion of the Stephane Erkle. - Because a part of me wanted Stephane on the steak, but a part of me was like, "No, man, you gotta be Erkle, man. You gotta be yourself, man." - That's so annoying. Erkle was so annoying. - Erkle was so annoying. - Great. - I couldn't stand him. I couldn't stand him. Like, I wanted Mr. Winslow to just build him. - And I was so glad when you got my rap. I was so happy for him. I was like, "Yeah, she's dope." - She's bad. - She's got big boobs. - So, you're a hater. So, you're saying that Erkle could do better than that. - I am? - That's what you're saying. - I am. - This is sad. - She's fair enough. I would have gone with Baywatch. Absolutely Baywatch. - I know it was a thing. - Baywatch was a hilarious show. It's about lifeguards doing stuff. - Yeah. - And this one Mitch learns that his captors plan to kill him, whether or not he saves Brady, and Stephanie investigates a diving, in quotes, accident involving the fiance of her sister. - That beach was crazy. - With a lot of crazy stuff going on at that beach. - Yeah. - Absolutely well said. So, 8/30 you go with Boy Meets World. - Of course. - So, this episode is a frustrated Cory consults his brother on his quest to find a date. - Let's talk about, boy, first of all, Ben will never be Fred. I'm just going to put that out there. - Fred's better. - Fred is better. - Is that better? - Have you seen Little Monsters? - Yes. - They're starting to get us in it. - Yeah. - They're both in that. - Fred's just better. - For some reason, whenever I hear the name Brian, I can't not repeat it in the same way that Ben's average. He says Brian in Little Monsters. Look what he's all grinding, he goes, "Brian!" And he was like, "Oh, my name's Brian!" It takes every bit of my being to not go, "Brian, no one would know." - I love Little Monsters and I loved Wonder Years. I love, love, love. - Yeah, great show. - And, um... - Boy Meets World is not the Wonder Years. - I watched... - I think that was my problem with it. - Yeah. I watched Boy Meets World because he was kin to Fred and out of my respect and love for Fred. - Yeah. - I watched it. And I think a lot of people did. And I don't think Ben gives Fred enough credit for that. - A lot of people our age did. - Yeah. I think a lot of people our age were like, "Hey, your friend's a little brother." - Yeah. - Give me a shot. - Yeah. - We'll see what you got. - Good family. - You know what I mean? - Yeah. - Exactly. - Yeah. - Quality people. It was decent. - It was okay. - I think I liked the younger years than the older. - Oh, it got awful. - Yeah. - When he was trying to marry her and all that stuff. - The garbage. - I feel like the young, like, Minkus and all that stuff going on. - Because the last... The first three seasons were more of a secumbatic kid and later became a friend's reply. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - And I really got tired of Shawn. Let's just be honest. - Yeah. - I was just getting tired of his shit. It's like, "You can't get it together, Shawn." - And he's all like, "You could tell that actor's like, 'I know I'm a hard kid.'" - Yeah. - But he was goofy looking kid. - And there was all these just something with this kid. It was like, come on, come on, Shawn. - I will say it was, at this time of TGAF, was by far the best show on the lineup. - Mm-hmm. - I would say that that's without question. - Mm-hmm. - And even as a die-hard family matters fan, do you think about that? - No. - No. There's stuff on our cals going on right now. - Oh dear. Let's move on to 9 o'clock. Let's just move on to 9 o'clock. We're going to have to agree to disagree. Step by step. - Yeah, I'm watching it. I like Cody. - Oh, someone told me that- - What's wrong with you? - First of all, someone told- - I like Cody. - An eighth grade, someone told me that I reminded them of Cody. - Oh, that's not good. - Not good. - J.T. - J.T. goes on a spending stream. - J.T. - I like K.T. - That was his first credit card, and a professor teaches Dana a lesson in humanity. - I like Donaldson. - I like Donaldson. - I like Dana. I like Cody. I like J.T. I like the dad. - Dana's the only one I love. - I'm into the whole show. Cody Living in the van. - I like Stacy Keenan. I would have been watching X-Files. There's no question about it. - Too scared. - Yeah, see, I loved it. I loved it. This is such a good X-Files episode. Yes. - Yeah, I got an X-Files story. - All right, so, I'm freaked out by aliens. - Yeah, do you believe in aliens? - I do, but in a weird- I don't know. - It's not illegal. - Yeah. - Okay. - And it's- Yeah. It's, um, I don't know. I've just always been a kid. I was always scared of aliens. Like it was always a thing. - Did you see those, like, kidnapping specials? - Right. Yeah, exactly. I saw those. They took me and they stuck something in my leg. - Yeah. - And I was like, oh man, what was that movie with the thing in the eye? You know what I mean? - Oh, yeah. Fire on the sky. - Yeah. - Just freaked me the fuck out. - Yeah. - I'm petrified of aliens. I'm like, but I'm kind of sometimes trying to sneak and watch like X-Files when it comes on late. You know? - Right, right. - I'm like, aw. - That's 10 or 11. - Yeah. So I try to watch it and then like be all freaked out by the music and stuff. - Yeah. - So, I'm like convinced at some point I convinced myself around 12 that aliens have actually abducted me. And I don't- - I thought you'd been abducted by aliens? - I don't, but I don't remember. But I like would feel this throbbing in my leg, which I know is just like, blood moving. - Yeah. Or just, you know, growing pains. - Right. But I thought it was a trekker. So, I convinced myself that I'm being tracked by these aliens and I'm like, I'm not even really sleeping at night because I'm like, oh my God, they're going to come back and like do more stuff. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And my mom used to have these parties and I had- - Top of where? - Parties? - Like, oh, my aunt will come over and drink wine. - Oh, okay. - You know, whatever. And she came in my room while I was in a bathroom and she looked at my pillow and she found a knife and a hammer under my pillow. - Okay. - And so she was just like, you know, who is doing something to you. So my mom is like super protected. - She thought someone was touching you. - Jumps right to somebody is touching me. - Yeah. - And she's like, I don't care who it is. It could be like your uncle. - Yeah. - Even if it's your brother you tell me- - Which now? - I love your mom. - Yeah, which is great. It's a great parenting immediately goes to it also lets me know, hey, it doesn't matter who the person is. - It's not your fault. - It's not your fault. - You just need to be honest. Why would you be sleeping with these things? - Yeah. - Like immediately on it. And she's like, you know, just going, I'm like, mom, nothing, nothing is heavy. - Yeah. - She's like, why do you have these things? Like, she presents them to me like, what do you guys want? - Look, I understand the hammer with the knife. - She's like, what's going on with you? And so I proceeded to tell her how I think aliens are going to abduct me. - Right. - And if you could see the disappointment, like I think she almost wished I was being molested. - Because it would be easier to do it. - Because it would make me, like yeah, like she's- - She probably didn't know what to do with that. - Yeah, she was just looking at me like, I made you, like you came out of me. - But also, you know, I probably wouldn't have been that. It was probably like, look, if it had been someone's tattooing me, I wouldn't know what to do. - Yeah. - We'd go to the police. We'd deal with it. - Right. - I have a plan. If you're like, I think aliens have abducted me. The parent, she's probably like, I don't know how to process them. I don't know how to make that better for you. - Right. - I don't know how to fix it. - When she realized that they hadn't. - Well, the next day, when I woke up, my TV was gone. She took my TV out of my room in the middle of the night and she left me a note basically saying until I can, you know, tell the difference between reality and television. - Well, I think that's really- - Like, so clearly you got that for TV. - I need to take a break from television for me. - Do you know a specific show that made you think of it? - It was just a lot of combinations of things. - I mean, it was big at the time. - Yeah. - It was a little right that was talk shows about it and maybe a little like, little side specials about it. - Oh, yeah. - And like Autopsy. - And history channels just like, yeah, they've been here 17 times in the last 20 years and like, it was just a lot of stuff. - So she took the TV out and then you go, I guess you're right. - Yeah. Six TV out. And I'm like, maybe I'm crazy. - I get it. Was that the year you took off from Man or two? - Maybe I see you. I said, yeah, I got to take a break. - It was a force. It was a force. Well, there was an alien abduction plot when Man or two went out. Well, X-Files that night is a small town is rocked by a sea. It's a series of sudden violent killing sprees by individual residents who are killed by police when they refuse to halt their actions. William Sanderson is in this who is a great character actor and also adult film actress Ashlyn Geer is in this who was a huge porno actress in the 80s and 90s. And this was a huge deal. They made a huge deal out of her making a mainstream acting role. And she actually is a pretty good actress. And she was in one of their non-pornographic roles, which was a harm movie called Creepazole. It's just not a great movie. But I remember at this time when this episode aired, there was like entertainment tonight. Stories and all this stuff about how this woman was going to break through and be a legit actress. And then it just never happened. - It doesn't never happen. - It never happened really for me. - Well, Tracey Lords kind of did it. - Yeah. Yeah. - Yeah. - But yeah, I mean, she's good in this episode. She's very, very good. This is a really great episode of X-Files. No aliens. - Mmm. - Sometimes there weren't aliens. - Yeah. Those were easier to deal with. - Fair enough. Pete, the dog is yelling. At us. So 930, you're going to hang on Mr. Cooper. - Yup. - I like that show. I like that show. I liked Mark Curry. Holly Robinson was my favorite, though. - Step by step. - Did you get nine? Oh, no. Step by step. - Yeah. Step by step's at nine. - You have him, Mr. Cooper. - This is when Mark learns that Nicole is doing a fifth grade bullies homework. He wants to teach the kid a lesson, but it's Geneva who closes the book on the subject. - I liked Geneva. She didn't take no mess. - No. Of course not. I liked Robin. - Yeah. - She was cute. - Yeah. - I liked Mark Curry. - Yeah. Yeah. Here's a funny stand up. He's one of those people. - That's a funny stand up. I remember when people stand up. - I would see him. You would stand out on a stand up. - Yeah. - That I would see him. - Yeah. - Yeah. I like Mark Curry. So that was good. - Well, Sam, we're at the end of our week. - Yeah. - And as you know, TV Guide is not just informative. It cheers any jeers. It has opinions. So I'm going to read you the cheers and jeers from that week. It is a cheer. We're three jeers, two chairs this week. I'll read you them and see if you agree or disagree. - Okay. - So first we have a cheer. Though faintly to a trend we've been fighting for so long that we finally are giving in, movies based on TV series. And then goes on to talk about how great the Brady Bunch movie is in Sergeant Bill Co. And I can go with that. The Brady Bunch movie is great. You said you enjoyed Bill Co. - I like Sergeant Bill Co. Maybe because I never saw the original. - The original is amazing. It's to a group called Viewers Against the Nanny. Aw, come on. The Nanny? Sure. Fran Drescher's Queens Bray may make the screech of a subway train. But I have a bunch of Drescher dishes. - People hated the Nanny? - Yeah. - I didn't get into the Nanny until it was in syndication. But I liked it. - I don't know. I could have pulled that. I could have pulled that. - I like the parents. - Jeers to King World for its Ted Turner like plans to colorize the 71 episodes of The Little Rascals. - I don't know. - I liked The Little Rascals and I kind of don't care. - Yeah. That's like who cares. I think that needs to be written about. - Then we have Cheers to MTV for paying some medical expenses and hospital expenses of uninsured real-world cast member Pedro Zamora. - Well, that's just the right thing to do. - Yeah. And then NBC, they paid for a stage hand got killed on the Today Show. He was actually killed by the guy who beat up Tom Brokaw and was saying, "What's the frequency key?" That same guy killed this dude. And NBC paid for all this stuff. And finally, Jeers to Rush Limbaugh for demanding an apology from She TV for lampooning him. - Was she TV? - She TV was a sketch comedy show. It was all women. - Oh, I remember that. - It was an okay sketch show. - I don't remember that. - Yeah, they made fun of Rush Limbaugh. - So cares. - Yeah, I don't care about Rush Limbaugh. - Well, Sam. - Yeah. - Thank you so much for doing the show. - This was fun. - We did it. - It would happen. It was great. [MUSIC PLAYING] - Hello, Sam James. She may or may not be possessed by the devil and may or may not have been abducted by aliens. The world will never know. She is very funny. As always, I will put all of her social media links up on tvguidenscounselor.com. And you can reach me there. You can reach me at tvguidenscounselor@gmail.com or CanadaiCanRead.com. And you can find us on Facebook and on Twitter. I love hearing from you guys. And we'll see you again next Wednesday for an all new episode of TVGuidenscounselor. [MUSIC PLAYING] - I wasn't Catholic, which was a big deal. One point they told my mother I was possessed by the devil. - Really? - Two nuns held me. And the other one tried to put it in my mouth. Oh, I'd be cool as hell. - Yeah. - They'd be like, "Zack Moore." - Why are you disappointed in me? - Yeah. - And you just don't want your daughter to get screwed.
