"Wait. You have a TV?" "No. I don't like to read the TV guide. Read the TV guide. You don't need a TV." Hello and welcome to Wednesday. It is time for an all new episode of TV Guidance Counselor. As always, I am Ken Reed, your TV guidance counselor. And my guest this week is Molly Hagan. I loved talking to Molly. You'll be able to tell from this episode. There's a lot of laughing. It's a lot of fun. Molly is great. She's been in so many things and so many things we've discussed on this show, which is one of the major reasons why I wanted to speak with her. Herman's head being the one that comes up most frequently on the show, but tons and tons of shows that we get into here. You can find out all about her at mollyhagan.com. And as always, I will post links to all of her social media stuff and some clips to show she's been on. She's going to be on some upcoming shows as well, which we discuss here. And I think you'll enjoy this episode. Again, I don't know why I say that every week because if I didn't think you'd enjoy the episode, I wouldn't put it out. But particularly this episode, this was one of the most fun episodes I did in my last trip out to Los Angeles. So sit back, relax, and listen to a very fun episode with actress Molly Hagan. Molly Hagan, hello. Hello. Thank you so much for doing this. I'm happy to be here. Yeah, this was, we tried to do it a couple of months ago. And I've noticed that people, they get so many last minute jobs here. Oh, yeah. They're supposed to be just like, I got apart now because of the run and do them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And TV moves exceptionally fast. Yeah. Well, it's not so much, but TV moves really fast. You just get a call that day and they're like, well, you know, you the script and get here now. Not quite that bad. Yeah. But pretty quick. So I'm so happy to talk to you because you've been in so many things that have come up a lot on the show. Oh, really? A ton of stuff. Herman's head comes up frequently. Really? Not all the time. Like, very, very well loved show. And also, I kind of sounded like Angel. That's quite all right. Well, that makes sense. It makes sense. Because that show was, you know, we can, we can get into kind of what you still want to run up a lot of stuff in a minute. But that show specifically sort of stood out on Fox because Fox had this sort of sleazy patina at that time where they were basically like, marital children's our number one show, all our shows are marital children. And they kind of had that they were they were kind of going for that. But Herman's head was such a weird high concept smarter show that I think it really stuck with people who watched a growing up and it really stood out on that network. And was three seasons, I think? Yeah, three seasons. Which was kind of a lot for Fox at that time, where they were throwing so many shows at the wall. Yeah. And when you got that, how odd was the concept? Like, did you just get it right away from? Because it's a weird concept. Well, I, I went even further with it. I was like, you know, this is, wow, this is like a Jungian journey. These are like animals and and they got very intellectual. I got super intellectual and I thought the the possibilities for the show. And the believe me, it was really, I think it was really, really funny. But what I thought it was, I don't know what I thought. I just know that I intellectualized the whole thing. Yeah. And and and to that I was going to be doing this really high brow, deeply investigative journey through a young man's mind. What's the totally different show? How? What point did you figure out? That's not what it was. Well, when I went in and I did Glenda the Good Witch voice for this role. Yeah. And he said, thanks, but no thanks. Right. And luckily, my my agent also represented Billy. Right. And Billy had already been cast in the lead. I'm like, I don't have to do the voice. Right. I can do it again. I swear. I can like dial it down. Yeah. Do you, did you always serve approach roles like that from like a very intellectualized way? Because you, there's not really a theme to the roles that you've done with so many stuff. And it's not like you're a comedic actor. So dramatic. And you've kind of done just everything. I, I tend to look at the pig picture. Right. I, I mean, obviously, I want to work. And sometimes, you know, I can't be particularly picky about what job comes my way. Right. But I do look at pieces and I look at their entirety and what they sort of mean or and not just my role. So if I know that I want to be a part of something, no matter how small the thing is or whatever, I like, when I read election, right, I was like, I really, really be a part of such a good, such a good movie. That's one of the few movies that I think the movie improved on the book by changing the ending, which is actually a such a better ending in the book head. I actually didn't read the book. The book is good. It's a, it's actually a, it was a Harvard professor that wrote it, which is why I'm reading it. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember it got kind of a buzz locally in Cambridge, Boston, and I really liked the book. And then when I saw the movie, at first, I was like, that ending is totally different. And then I'm like, it's so much better. It really, there's maybe like two movies I can think of that didn't. The election is definitely one of them. But that movie is kind of a twisted sense of humor movie as well. It's such a great movie. And holds up. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. A lot. It's such a timeless movie. Yeah. Like you could show that to kids now and they wouldn't think it was made. Yeah, they would cringe just as much as we did that and watching it. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. You cringe when you watched it. Oh, it's so embarrassing. Yeah. You had to do some tough stuff in that. No, not for me. I mean, yes. I mean that. I mean, his character, it's cringe when he makes these mistakes and you just don't do this. Yeah. You just so awful. And she doesn't show up for the unfair. And then he goes, oh, it's just all and he keeps making the phone call. And you see her in the car. We'll just cry that. Yeah. It's brutal. It's brutal. Yeah. It's brutal. But funny. And so funny, because it's so brutal, but Matthew was just so. He's so genius. He's so genius. He's so genius. Yeah. Absolutely. And so that's the kind of thing that you read describing. I don't care what part I have. Yeah. I wanted to please, please God call. Yeah. Herman said it wasn't quite that I imagined because it wasn't quite exactly what you know, but I knew it was going to be special. Yeah. And because of all the different characters, they're like, oh, really? Right. And my funny story about that is that so in testing, I go into test and there were some of us there. And I actually don't remember who was testing for my role, but Yardley was there. I didn't, wasn't familiar with Yardley yet, but Yardley said, yes, I'm coming or whatever yardley you're next because okay, I'm not going to do a voice. Very distinctive voice. Very distinctive voice. And she goes, yeah, I'm ready. And I went, I'm not going to get it. Right. Because I had no, oh, I didn't know there was Louise. We only got, I think I didn't read the whole script. I didn't know there was another. So like, these are all the women for this one woman part. Right. And I didn't understand. I don't think I understood the office part. I didn't understand because I think Louise had just had been added after the pilot that I read. And I went, I'm not going to get this. Yeah. She's going to get it. Yeah. And then when I read this, there's a whole lot of care. It just was, it happened. People don't see you understand too, that aren't in that industry is when you go for a job, everyone else who's up for that job is like sitting there with you. Yeah. And you get, you have to like size them all up, which never, there's no other job that does that. If you go for a job review at a law firm, you're not sitting in the lobby with everyone else who's having that interview. And I think in college, if my memory serves, I went to Northwestern. In college, if my memory serves, you would audition in a room and the other actors were there too. Watching you. Yes. I swear to God, I think that's what used to happen. It's likely that they wouldn't surprise me. And so you got to see someone else's audition. Right. And then you had it going on. Oh, that's awful. It's crazy. Yeah. But I guess anything, it would make anything that wasn't that seem easier. Because we're just like, oh, at least the people who are a mob vote against aren't watching me. And then you read the list. You're not getting a phone call. You have to go and check to see around a bunch of other people, whether you got the role or not. It's just absolutely humiliating. So yes. It's almost like a hazing into the world of acting. Can't be worse than this. I hit rock bottom. I'm not on the list. So you grew up in the Midwest? Indiana. Indiana. Okay. So then Northwestern's in Chicago. That's right. Just north of Chicago. So you wanted to do theater stuff? Are you always wanting to act? I always wanted to act. I always wanted to act. And then in high school, I decided, oh, maybe that's a stupid thing. Maybe I should be a lawyer. And then I got in a community theater play at Equis. Okay. And I went, come on. I want to act. Yeah. I mean, my father was all for it because he secretly wanted to be an actor. He was an artist, but he wanted to be an actor. And my mom was like, oh, God. Right. Get it out of your system and get a real job. She turned to me because she went to Northwestern as a grad student. And creative dramatics, which was children's theater. Okay. Part of it. So there's kind of a history there is kind of a history, but she was in school at the same time that her best friend was in school with Charlton Heston. So she was hanging around with all these people. And she turned to me when she turned up. And I said, no, mom, I really want to be an actor. And she just turned and she went, oh, she was. Actives are so dull. And of all the actors, she knows really Charlton was a bull. Never did anything interesting. Well, it was just that all they talked about was act. Yeah. Yeah. They're just consumed by it. Consumed by it. So it was. Would you kind of have to be to look, overlook a lot of the stuff you have to put up? Well, at least in the beginning. I mean, you know, when you're young, and then hopefully you get some other interests because you need to. Yeah. I mean, that's what comedy's like, you know, you have to be somewhat delusional to go out all the time and do this and be like, no, this is fine. And then, you know, after five, 10 years, and you're like, what the heck? I was like thinking with that. It must be very similar. So when you grow up, do you only child, or do you have some? No, I'm the last of seven. Oh, last of seven? Yeah. Wow. Okay. So did you all watch TV as a family? Or I imagine you just got kind of assaulted with whatever the other six wanted to watch. Yeah, kind of. And because there was such a like, my oldest brother was 14 years older than I was. So, so like by the time I was watching TV, he wasn't really that he was in college or stuff like that. So it would sort of change. But like one of the first shows that I remember one of my brothers and my sisters and I watching was Johnny Quest. Okay. I remember that being very pivotal. Right. That we were all like, Johnny Quest. Because that that show appealed to like all kids. It was like a boy. I don't think it was on Saturday morning. It was at the beginning. So when it started in 1961, I think it was on Saturday morning, but then they did it five days a week. So it was on. It wasn't on at night. It was on after school on some networks and it was syndicated in certain markets. So it might have been on like five on like double hand or something. Okay. So there was there was a weird syndicated package and it would sometimes air in those sort of like bozo type round shows where they were at there along with clutch cargo. If you remember that show. I do not. Clutch cargo was like the bargain basement Johnny Quest. And it was very similar Johnny Quest, except instead of being animated, it would be still drawings. And then they would just have human mouths to in the speaking. No. It was like, it was just human mouths and stills. And it was just terrifying. Like in that way, Gumby is kind of scary, but so much more. Yeah. Clutch cargo. Oh my God. If you ever want to come on, did that last? Clutch cargo was one season. And then the guy who did it did like a couple of other shows. And I think he kind of went into markets and was like, well, it's kind of expensive to run this Johnny Quest. So I can give you the same thing for half the price of even this clutch cargo. Yeah, very, very weird show. Oh wow. Yeah. You can always tell like what what kind of city someone grew up near. If I'm like Johnny Quest or clutch cargo, I'd be like, clutch cargo. I'm just like, I'm so sorry. Yeah. Like my dad was a clutch car. If you ever bought YouTube clutch cargo, you'll be just amazed at that. All right, I have to do it when I get home. It would air now as like an adult swim stoner show. Right, right, right. Do you still mess up? It's great. So Johnny Quest, you kind of all watched as a group. And did you have to sort of negotiate for anything? Like they were? I was too young to negotiate. Yes, I was not negotiating. Right. You were just along for the ride. Right. Did you witness like huge battles between when stuff would conflict? You know, we only had three channels. Right. And no, I don't remember arguments about that. There were plenty arguments about it. I don't remember that so much. Yeah. But I remember that my sister had TV. So there was a, yeah, at some point, my sister had a TV in her room and my parents, you know, there was the TV room. It was called the TV room. Yes. With a good TV. Right, right. And rightfully so. Yeah. And then my sister had a TV and it was small. And we, I remember watching, I don't know if my parents watched, but I was watching Mary Tyler Moore at the Bob Newmore show and all the MTM stuff. Yeah, but oh my god. Carol Carbonette, that whole thing. I don't remember ever watching that with my parents. Right. That was sister's thing. Yeah, I think that was definitely, was there anything you would watch with your parents? And they were just like, I don't understand this. Like we're later, but I do remember watching all the family all together. Yeah. And my father laughing up worstly at Archie Bunker. Archie Bunker. And my father was not a bigot at all. Right. But he had this huge temper. It is a really rational temper. Right. And, and he'd be laughing up worse than like, and I'd be laughing too. But I'd be like, like, different things. It's like, why are you laughing at yourself? That's what my dad's like with Archie Bunker. Like he looks at Archie Bunker as the hero of that show. And I'm like, no, we're laughing at him. He's a sad character. And he's like, I love that Archie Buggies saying things we all want to say. And he's like, no, no, he's not. Yeah. When it's always bizarre when you realize someone is enjoying something wrong. Right. What I mean, he, yeah, because like he did not see himself. Yeah. And again, it was, it was the temper. And it was the irrational anger. And it was the tyrant. Yeah. Archie was tyrant. Yeah. So it was the tyrannical aspect. And he'd like go completely off laughing. I mean, you are a completely tyrant. And if you just don't call us meatheads, you call something else. The only difference. Yeah. If you, if you, if you was ever doing one of those things and you were like, you're being Archie Bunker, they'll be like, what do you, no way. Like there's no possibility. Oh, well, no, that that I wouldn't have said to my room where I would have been spending. Yes. As an Archie Bunker, wouldn't it? Yes. But you, they would never acknowledge it. It's always funny how I think people sort of subconsciously recognize those things, but probably wouldn't be able to put too into it. No, absolutely not. But I was just, you know, and I felt like mom was definitely eating it and I was like, this whole dynamic and think they're laughing. And actually, I do not think my mom liked it. No. I think she liked the politics of it, but I don't think she, but later on, I think I was in high school. No, I was in college, I think. And maybe I came back, whatever. And you'll know the show because you know everything is it was about World War II and coming home. Oh, man, I'm drawing a blank now, actually. Really great actors drama drama. Our drama. It was definitely after World War II. Yes. And the guy from Mad Men's in it. Yep. I can't think of it. It wasn't on very long either. It was maybe two, one or two or three seasons. It was post-mash. Yes, post-mash. It was like, in fact, I was out here. It was 19, I think it was late 80s, early 90s. Oh, not trying to, coming home from. Not trying to, not trying to be, in fact, it might have been post-China beach. And it's only World War II, not Vietnam, not Korea. It was a really good show. Really good actors. And I came home and I was like, you've got to be watching this show. It's really good. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they just both turned to me because my father was in the war in World War II. And they just turned, why would we want to relive that? I just, I was like, what? I don't understand. And I mean, I could not compute what they wouldn't want to watch the show. It like brought up too many painful memories or whatever. But they were just like, why would we want to, and if they weren't watching the Waltons either. Right, right. You know, they lived through the depression. They're like, and we were, you know, like, couldn't get enough of the Waltons. It was like, I love the Waltons. Like, that's a huge, I think that's a good illustration of the difference in generations of a generation that didn't grow up with television. Where I think movies for them were probably an escape. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Really an escape. Yeah. And television became this thing where it could, because it was weekly and because it was in your home, it was somewhat more intimate. And I think that it could address issues more or be more reflective. And movies for the most part didn't do that for that generation all that much. So it probably would be weird where they'd see things and be like, why do you want to talk about that on TV? We could read the paper and the world is horrible. And I've definitely heard people with that outlook of that generation. Yeah. Where they're just like, this art shouldn't make us feel bad. Right. And then I remember when Donahue and over Winfrey and stuff like that, it was sort of really at the high point in the beginning. Yeah. And, and things, people, celebrities, would ever come out about their lives, how horrible their childhood was. And I remember my mom just being, I would never, they should never say those things. Yeah. They should, that is, that is a private concern. That is. That's between them and their family. Right. And, and she, she never watched any of those things because she thought it was horrific. And that was a huge trend too, which started with like the, the mommy dearest kind of tell-all Crosby's kids and all that stuff. And it just was this wave where I think people, like your mom's age probably were like, why would you do that? Why would you ever, that is not for public hearing. I remember hearing actually was recently an interview with was being Crosby's daughter, I think. And they asked her about all the abuse and all that stuff. And she goes, well, he focused a little bit too much on that in his book. But they were like, but it kind of is a big part of it. But I think there's like generation of people who are like, forget it. Yeah. So it definitely is, it was probably shocking, but everyone couldn't get enough of that stuff. No, no, at that time. Everybody. Because it was like looking behind a door that no one ever got to see. And there's a strange thing too that I think people have this weird relationship with people they see on television where they almost want to see them fail. There's like almost like a part where they are like, where a lot of people have that like, they should just shut up. And I don't want to hear about their politics or, you know, oh yeah, they probably don't have any money now. They probably spent it all. And it's like, why? I don't understand the weird animosity that you have towards these people that are anything to like. And it comes from people that I would never expect it from. And I'm like, they're just doing a job. They're doing it. That's a normal thing. But there's a weird, I think it's because it has this sort of glamour. And people are like, well, I'd like to do that. Yeah, people don't know. First of all, there's certainly a lot of people who make a tremendous amount of money. Right. That's really not the norm. No. It's a very, what is it? 3% of the screen actors go? I mean, people are or 2% or maybe 1% make a tremendous amount of money. And then the rest of us are, you know, it's a job. Yeah. And it's like thinking everyone that works in an office is the CEO. It's like I work in the coffee room. It must be nice. Where's your Porsche? You know, it's like, no, no, there's all levels in this business. Yeah. So I don't think they get that. I remember I went home for my first reunion. It was the 10 year reunion. And I remember one of the girls I heard. I was a popular in high school. I was the best of us weren't. Yeah. I mean, I was known, but I was not well liked. Right. And one of the people who didn't like me was, she was an extra lunar. Yeah. Anyway, so I heard her like, I'm like, well, why isn't she wearing a fur coat? Like I would come back to the reunion. Flaunted. In like, first of all, I don't wear fur, but I mean, and I don't can't afford for whatever it was, but I just thought I went fur coat. Right. What? They expect you to come in with like two giant poodles all the time in leashes and like, yeah. What are you talking about? But it's probably so far away from it. There's an Indiana. Yeah. I mean, from the experience of those people who probably still live in the town that you grew up in, and it seems like you're you move to Mars or something and you know, you're going to come back with superpowers. It's just so alien to the truth. It's so alien to them. And I also the people don't realize how much it costs to live here. Yeah. Yeah. And in New York. Yeah. Absolutely. And and so that's part of it. It's like, well, it may look like I make a lot of money, but I'm not. I'm just trying to. Yeah. Well, I mean, all my friends that moved out here that I started with who were doing very well in comedy, you know, they're still like, yeah, I got one big payout, but then I might not get a job for like six months or a year. So if you average it out weekly, I'm probably making less than everyone else. Exactly. And it's hard for people to understand that. And it's interesting when you kind of move here and that's probably a big revelation where you're like, Oh, it's not quite how I thought it would be watching TV when I was a kid. Well, I hope I was more savvy than that. But I do remember like the first meal I went out and it was it's just like a normal, it wasn't a fancy meal. It wasn't like maybe it wasn't a diner, but it was a restaurant. Right. And it was really expensive for me. Yeah. But then they just bought out this gigantic plate of food and I'm like, well, it's expensive, but I'm getting more of it. Yeah. Yeah. It's different out here, but I like it. I like it so far. The quantity is fantastic. So when you first came out here, I think the first thing I think I remember seeing you in was some kind of wonderful, but that was probably you've been here for a while, whether it was an 87. Okay. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was 87. Yeah. Okay. Was that early on? That was totally early on. It was the first thing that was totally early. Yeah. Because you kind of were in a couple of the tail end of the brad pack thing, because you're a fresh horses as well. Right. I sat around and watched TV so much as a kid. Okay. It was a ball. I didn't even know that aired again, I mean. Fresh horse horses. I saw that in the theater. Did you? Yeah. My Pat. Probably only good things. Viggo Martin. Viggo Martin's in. Oh my God. How great was he in? Yeah. He was great. He was terrifying. He was in, people forget how many things he was in for so long and was great in everything. Great. He's great in everything. Yeah. He never walks through anything. No. No. And he's pretty much always terrifying, even when he's not playing a terrifying character. Right. I just watched 28 days and I'm like, still a little terrifying. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. But here I'm a little scared. A little scared. I'm a little scared. Yeah. I mean, comedy, a little terrifying. But still laugh. But yes. Yeah. But more of a scared laugh, because if he found out I didn't laugh, he might get very angry about that. And you did a lot of guest roles and stuff on TV at that time too. It was the first regular series that you had in that house. I think that was the first thing I remember seeing in a regular piece. Yeah. I think it was. I did. I had done a lot of pilots, but that was the first regular. And that was from growing up watching Caravornet. Must have been really weird to work with Harvey Klarman. No, it was awesome. Yeah. But Klarstle each minute Harvey Klarman. It was, I thought I died and gone to heaven. Was that the first time you kind of got Starstruck working with somebody? Probably not, because I'm Starstruck a lot. Yeah. It's certain, but he was so open. Yeah. He wasn't like, I don't make eye contact with him. No, no, no. Both Ian Klarst were very, they were very open and it wasn't like that. So I may have been Starstruck initially, but it quickly dissipated because they were so awesome. I still revered them and I still, you know, I still felt beneath. But they were like, you're one of us. Come on in to the kind of, yeah. Yes, and Harvey one time turned to us, and he, and he turned something and he said, so that, that funding wasn't funny. And we're like, what are you asking? You're Harvey Klarman. You're Harvey Klarman. And we went, well, he goes, oh my God, you've got to tell me if it's not funny. Yeah. Oh, he was so funny. Yeah. He was so funny. But some of those people are just constantly working so hard because they, it's never good enough for them. So he probably was just, yeah. I ignored him. That show was about 13 episodes of show. So I think it didn't last that long. It was just 10. Yeah. And there was Alan Spencer, who had done sledgehammer before, and it was very surreal. I think Mel Brooks produced the show. I remember that was one of those shows that never really re-aired, but everyone that saw it kind of was like, was that a real thing? Or am I just imagining that? Because it, there was some bizarre things on that show. Yeah, that's pretty bizarre. It was sort of Mad Magazine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a little bit like, and a very physical, yeah, a lot of physical stick. Yeah. It was cartoonish in the best possible. Yeah, yeah, right. It was about a hotel, and it was very, very weird show. And then the next thing was probably Herman's head that was a regular show. Yeah, yeah. But I remember the other thing I remember seeing when I guess it was probably before that was the Elf Christmas special, which is- Oh, I love that. Infinitely depressing that Christmas special. Oh my god. He, Paul, what's the last thing? Paul Frisco. Oh my god, was he funny? He, first of all, Elf, he wasn't a cutout. I mean, so the Elf, so there were, there's a stage, and you know, Paul's below. It's a staged thing, and he's below. And so you never, in fact, I don't think I ever met Paul. He just heard his voice in there. No, I never met. I only dealt with Elf all the time. That's really weird. And, and, and so, and during, in the between takes, Elf would talk to me. In character? In character, and I just remember having this debate with Elf. I'm like, that's horrible. Why can't you possibly say that about someone? Like, like, not, like, Paul didn't exist. You totally just put that. Just Elf, and I, I thought so mad at Elf, because he was so- Close-minded. He was, he was being so mean about somebody, and I was really upset. And I went home and went, oh my god. I just had an argument about that. I just had an argument with Elf, and it was, I'm like- That's amazing. Yeah, that's how in Paul was, and he stayed in. Yeah, oh yeah, I mean, that show in '86, that show was ridiculously huge phenomenon. It was huge. He, he was genius. He really, and he was an interesting case, because he is also from Massachusetts. Oh, is he? He was sort of, for years, kind of toiling away, trying to be kind of the next Jim Henson, and he had produced, actually, not to disparage him, but it was almost like the clutch cargo for Jim Henson things. He was making these like, Christmas special, like a holiday special every year with his puppets, and they would air once and kind of not catch on, and then when he hit with Elf, people thought he came out of nowhere. But it was like, he's been doing these eight, nine years, and trying to get these things in here, and it was just massive. Like, I don't think people who, you know, like kids are younger, people who are watching television now can really understand how big of a phenomenon that was. No, and how many years was that? It was five seasons, so it went from '86 to '91, and then it got canceled before they were able to tie it up. Like, it was, it was sort of unceremoniously canceled, which is still weird, because the show that was, you know, NBC's number one show for a number of years, and then they're like, hey, we don't care anymore, and it had two cartoon series, and then they had a talk. He was, he guest hosted the Teenage show. I remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just so weird, a puppet guest hosted the Teenage show. I mean, you were also on that one, Jerry Stahl was writing for that show, which, oh my god, which is really, really, so dark. Yes, it's very, very strange. And that was probably one of the first roles you had out here, too. '86-ish. I remember I did something for, um, with Jeffrey Tambor. Oh, Mr. Sunshine. Mr Sunshine. We was blind. Yeah, and I did a couple of episodes of that, and then- Golden Globe winner, Jeffrey. Yeah, oh god, how brilliant is he and transparent? Oh god, that's such a great show. Um, is, uh, if they'd gone one more season, they were gonna make me a regular. I was like, oh! So close. That was a great show to be on, because of the actors that were on it. Barbara Babcock, Paul, I mean, every one of them, and Jeffrey, at every end, it was, um, John, um, he's like the father of sitcom. He was so wonderful. He was so wonderful. He was kind of like a father figure, demanding. But he had a huge sense of humor, and I cannot believe I'm going up on his name, but that's because of menopause. It's correct. It's correct. And, um, but yeah, that was a big high point, because the actors on that show, and most of them, you know, had come from, I mean, they'd done a tremendous amount of TV and film, but, you know, they were born and bred in the theater. Right, and then she was packed to the gills with, like, tons of great character actors that were finally getting, like, their own kind of moment, because Tambor had been tons and tons of shows forever, and that was really the first sort of starring role that he had. Yeah. And it was a cool show. I mean, it was a dark, weird show. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't not house-weird. Yeah, it wasn't not house-weird. Yeah. Oh, and not house was single-camera, which was unusual back then. Yeah, absolutely, and I don't think it had a laugh-track either. No, I don't know. It may not. So, so Sledgehammer was forced to, and I know that Alan was like- Have you interviewed Alan? I have, and I would love to interview him at some point. Oh, he's got millions of stories. Yeah, good. Yeah. I've loved everything that he's done, and his, uh, his whole story of just, like, sneaking on with a lot of, and being at Brooks, and I was, did you ever, did Mel Brooks ever come, said or anything? Yeah, from the pilot, he came by. That would be very intimidating, I imagine. Well, on TV. Yeah, you have to, oh, I have to be funny from Mel Brooks, that's not a problem. Yeah, but he was really nice. I mean, he was super nice, but I remember I think I went to the bathroom a lot then. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of overload. Yeah, of course, Leachman, him, it's like, you know what, throw some more on there, it doesn't matter at this point. It's like, keep on going. Actually, speaking of, like, Oprah and a lot of stuff, you were in Ringmaster. Oh, yeah. Ringmaster. The Jerry Springer movie, which I think people forget about now. Right. That, that was such an enormous phenomenon, where we had- Oh, but he's still on here. He's still, I didn't know he's still near. I was on the plane flying over here, and I'm like, you know, we had the TV that on the plane, and I'm like, Jerry Springer is still on. He's still on, and I turned on the TV in the middle of the day, which is not something I do, and I was trying to get to the movie channels. And I go past, I don't know what channel it was, his bodyguard on it. Yes, St. Wilco's has his own show. No, has his own show. I went, is that the guy from what? Yes, it's so weird. And Springer has another show too, that's a game show called baggage, have you heard of this show? Oh my god. This is amazing. So it's like a dating game, and these people go out on a date, and the guy wheels out a suitcase, and then they go on the date, and it's like, how is the date great, whatever, whatever. And then he's like, this is my baggage. And then he opens up the case, and it's some like horrible secret about him, like, I was abducted by aliens. They're like, I was gay for three years or something like that. And then they have to be like, oh, I can deal with that baggage. We'll go out again. It's the weirdest game show. And Springer, host, I think he produces it. It's such a weird show. It's one of those shows where I'm like, this is a show that would be in like a running man style parody of the future. Absolutely. It's so weird. And people must watch it. It's on, it's like fifth or sixth season. What? There's this whole world of television because it's so niche and narrow. Oh yeah, right, right, right, right. There are shows that have been on for like decades that I've never heard of because we don't have these, you know, just the networks. And there are shows that I'm like, that's just been on NBC for like 12 years. I don't even never even heard that show, which is still weird to me for having grown up being like, I know everything that's on. Yeah, that's because I feel the same way. I'm like, what the heck? Yeah. Jerry was really great. Jerry was really nice. But Jerry, I understood right away. I'm like, oh, I see how I was a politician because he really, he had out, he to his credit and because I was younger and I had absolutely no boundaries. He had really great boundaries. Right. He was credibly friendly. He was credibly, seemingly open, everything like that. And I felt like, oh, we kind of bonded. We didn't bond. He does. He's doing his job. He's doing his job. And he certainly doesn't remember me. And I remember being in Chicago and he lived in a famous building at the time and I went, you know what? I'm just going to drop by. Jerry Price and Jerry. Thinking that we bonded. And I saw I go to the desk and whatever. And I'm like, no, no, I know him. No, we didn't move again. No, no, I know. Can you just ring him up? I like more friends. I like what was I thinking that he was going to come down and say, let's grab coffee. But I could see how that's the sort of a false sense of intimacy. I think when you work on sets with people because you're playing characters that have a history or you spend, it's almost like going to camp with somebody at more than having worked with them. And so you feel like you and had he been an actor? Yeah. That may have been kind of different. Right. But I just think it's really weird that I assumed something. I mean, the guard looked at me like I had a five heads. Well, I imagine he probably got all kinds of people going. Of course. I know him. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, I, yeah. He sends thoughts into my brain. He's been persecuting me with this weather machine or all kinds of bizarre things. How was he just like, yeah, I'll call him. Yeah, it never happened. As I was down there talking to him at the guard, I realized that halfway through. I'm like, I clearly insane and I'm just gonna. But I would do something like that. Like I've been like, oh, let's go say hello. But it's so weird. People are like, why are you here? Why are you here? Yeah. It was really, really embarrassing. That movie got a ton of press. I mean, everyone was, it did. Everyone was like, we can't believe they're making a movie of the Jerry Springer show. And it was kind of like the, how is this, how did they do? It was almost like, which is more than normal now, but when they make a movie, like a video game, when I first happened, they're like, how was this a movie? And so they were like, the Jerry Springer show of the movie? And it did fairly well, I think. Well, the script was actually really funny. Yeah. And good. And, um, had you watched the talk trail before? I think I, I think I avidly watched it. Okay. Pretty sure. I watched it a lot. Nothing to do with being asked. I would think for it to be in that it would either have to be something you had never even heard of. Yeah. So like sounds fun or something you were really into. I was really into it. Was that the best of those talks? Because there was maybe 30 talk shows in the 90s. Everyone had Gordon Elliott and he had, they were giving everybody talk shows. Lisa Gibbons, Jay Jones. I mean, it was just nonstop. Yeah. And then they all started to specialize, which was really weird. Like now, Maury, which is still on every episode is paternity. That's like what he does. That's his thing. But like, Sally was the like, satanic ritualistic abuse. That was her thing. It was like, repressed memories every week. And then they all were like, Oh, I have a thing that this is all the shows. It got really bizarre. I was like, how strange. And people forget that Oprah used to do that kind of stuff. Oh, I don't forget. You're one of the few she somehow brainwashed everybody being like, we always did social issues and big. I was like, no, you did well, yeah, because Chicago, you were probably in college when she was doing like my, I married a alien from outer space. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. But yeah, no, she was definitely. She was right down there with the Donahue's and her in her all though. But Donahue actually, I thought Donahue was above and beyond all of them. He's so smart. He's genuinely interested. He was genuinely interested and he's definitely really super smart. Yeah. He seemed like someone who was actually listening to the answers that people had, which unlike, you know, when I watched her all though, I'm like, he's just thinking of how he can insult this person when they're done talking. Or like, not quite Morton Donahue Jr. Right, right, right, right. Donahue was like, Oh, this is a social issue. I've researched. Like, I feel like he did reading before he did the show. There's no doubt in my mind. I wish he would have gone into politics. I think he would have done it. Donahue? He was probably too smart. He was probably like, I'm not getting into that game. But also, there's something about interviews. Like, I mean, you're looking at me. You're responding to me. You are actually listening to me. There's a lot of interviews. And I get it, but that where they're already onto, they're already, they're like waiting for you to stop talking because they have their ex-question. And then you realize, oh, they're not like electronic press kits. That's a lot like that. And I remember the first time I did one and I was like, why are you doing it? And I went, well, they can't. They, like, they got a thing to get through there. But it was, it's really disconcerting when someone asks your question and they're not listening to you. Yeah, why did you even ask? I'm like, why, why here? What was, so you're doing like those press junket things? No, I've never done really press junket thing, but electronic, you know, whatever. They send a package to like entertainment tonight. Yeah, yeah, this stuff. And I know I did some press for... Not house. Yes, because Chloras wasn't available and Harvey wasn't available for something, so I had to go. Like the third league. Yeah. And you could tell everyone was like, when you, when you're a teenager, did you ever think you get a column? They're like, look, Harvey Corbin can't do it. Chloras, if we can't do it, you're the first one on the list after them. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I was, let me promote the video. And Gregory, it's him was in that. And how? Berlin, I mean, Greg was, I mean, he's clearly a great actor, but, but like the last 10 years, I mean, great, meaty, fantastic. Yeah, I think that that's probably, but you know, you look at someone like Brian Cranston, who was kind of doing the same thing, that kind of bit. And people were always like, I can't believe this comedy actor's doing German, but I'm like, it's not that different. It's probably just down a little bit probably. Yeah, and Greg gets in this brutal actor. Were you watching the things you were in? Oh, I always watched what I mean. Okay. Oh, what do you mean? Like, is it a guest or things? Or anything. Like, the show? When I'm in, or if I'm going to be in it? Either, actually. Was there a shame? I generally watch, I watch a lot of TV. There's only a few things that I've been in that I never watched before. There's only a few things that I still haven't watched that I've actually been in. And that's just because it just hasn't presented itself. But I generally try to watch everything. I mean, because I, that's how I learn. Right. So it's like sports highlight films. You're like, okay, I could have. Yeah, exactly. And was there anything you used to watch as a fan that then you got to be in? Oh, friends. Yeah, that's right. You were in friends. Seinfeld. Seinfeld. But more than Seinfeld, it was friends. I worshiped the ground. Right. It was like when it got contests when you go in the set of that. Yeah, I felt like I want to contest. How hard was it to contain that? Were you just like, I got to do my job? And then you kind of. I don't think I contained it. Okay. I think that was pretty much like, because I was like what 2001 was towards the end of friends. Yeah, it was towards the end of friends. I had known Jennifer, because she was Herman's sister in Herman's head. So she had done a whole bunch of episodes of Herman's head. So I had known her, but I was like, she's not going to remember me. But I, I, she's going to learn just not to assume anything. No one's going to remember me. And Hank is really, is really good friends with Matt Perry. And so Matt needs to visit set. And I'm like, he's not going to remember. And then I had a connection with someone else. Like, nice people are going to remember me just going to do your job. I have always assumed that about everything, but you would never ever. It's safer. Yeah, it absolutely is. Oh, it's so much safer. You'll never be disappointed, you'll never be disappointed. You won't be depressed. You won't be hurt any of this. But they were all really nice to me. Yeah. And so then I, I was like, which made it even crazier too, because that was the year that it was like, they're the highest-paying people that ever existed this year. Exactly. Huge. And I think the person I really gushed over was not up long. Yeah. I finally cornered him and just because he had just done a movie where he, it was a World War II movie, and he was so good in it. And I, I just cornered him and I just went off. I was like, "I'm so great. I'm so good." And now, when I watch episodes, I'm like, he's blowing my mind. He's so damn funny. Yeah. He is so damn funny. It's so weird how funny. Oh my god. I mean, I thought he was brilliant in friends. Because he's killing me. That could have easily done drama stuff. Yeah. And didn't do that much of it for whatever reason. Right. And so it's, you realize he kind of knows what he's doing with comedy. Like playing a dumb guy is kind of hard to do it well and not actually doing that. But now he's playing a prick. Yeah. And like, I can't get enough of that show. So it just premiered last week. And I was like, you know, I love Tams in Greek is one of my favorite UK actresses. She's on that show. She's so funny. She was in a show called Black Books that there's a comic called Dilla Moranis, an Irish comic, and it was created by Graham Leanhander to the IT crowd if you've seen that show. But it is such a weird, great sitcom. And she was like a sitcom actress and can do drama. And I'm so happy that she's doing like a show that's popular in the U.S. because it's so hard for UK actors. Yeah. Yeah. I don't care. Yeah. Which is so weird. But yeah, that would have just sort of been like, all right, I'm done now. I did it. I was on the show. And now what else do I do? Like, it would seem like anything. The job after friends would be just-- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't remember the job after friends. Why would you? Why would I? Exactly. [laughter] Do you have a preference for like, what genre of stuff? Because you've been in-- I remember the last time we talked, you were doing Stalker. Yes. And that sounds-- that seems very heavy. It was pretty heavy. I mean, now I can talk about it because it's already aired, but yeah, I was insane. Yeah. I was insane. Was it fun or is that like, trying? Like at the end of the day? No, it's-- well, I had a good time. Because some people I would feel like would get like, really drained dinner. Well, you know, I'm in a period of my life right now where I tend to sit with the comedy or whatever. So I get like a little too-- and also different comedies do different like instant mom. You can be pretty amped. In fact, instant mom, I almost lost a bus to the gasket. Not because like, I mean, I don't mean I was mad. I mean, I-- You're amped up. It's alive. You have to really-- you kind of-- and because of the characters like playing comedy usually have to be fast and quick or they're nervous or whatever. And I'm not really like that anymore. So to get amped up for that, that's exhausting. Gotcha. Gotcha. That's interesting. To be a psychotic murder. Eh, it was kind of like-- It's relaxing. It's relaxing. That's amazing. They're all vacation. Went away, played a murderer. It was really nice. It's different. It's different. The knowing you have to get a laugh on certain lines. Terrifying. It didn't used to be when I was younger. Now, more terrifying and requires a lot of energy. And if I suck in a drama, you don't really know. And I imagine on those three camera sitcom shows where the writer is kind of king in a lot of ways, they're probably sitting in the wings waiting for their line. And if you don't do it right or it doesn't hit, you messed up my line. And not all that line didn't work. I imagine there was a lot of like uncomfortable waiting like, oh god, I hope that this works. Please just let me nail it. Just let me get through this. I feel like I spent most of that time in contrast watching John Michael Higgins. Cool as a cute woman. Yeah, he seems pretty unflappable. I mean, and so funny. And I'm like, why can't I do what he does? Right, right. He was so unflappable. He was even let's say he messed up or something like still unflappable and still funny. And I just want, I want to be him. I want to, if I could just suck his life force out of him. Because you agonize over like that. I mean, I just, you know, I like what if I go, but I just did anything you did, this may have been might have been a little bit after the popularity of these shows. But did you ever end up on one of those blooper shows, which were so popular in the mid to late 80s and kind of had died down by the 90s? I imagine people were just like, I don't want to end up on the blooper show, which is like a whole new level of terror. Well, unless it was funny. I don't know. I never watched them. Were they funny? They were sort of funny. It was people, I think it was back to like the peeling back the curtain thing, which was so popular in the 80s for a lot of reasons with them. My, you know, just this actress was a monster or, you know, people seeing them sort of humanize and like seeing them mess up, which is kind of like, yeah, you suck at your job. Or like, so some of them were funny. Yeah, you suck at your job. Yeah, this is so weird. Because you don't have a show of like a guy digging holes. And they're like, this guy dug the wrong hole. I was like, Oh, no, no one cares about that. But they're like, I hit a gas line. Yeah, you screwed up. So I think people watch it for that reason. And at first they were pretty amusing because it was new. Right. And you were seeing kind of big shows. And then it was on every week. And now they're running out of things. Right. So you would get like George Gaines on "Punky Bursty Vame" like, pinky, I mean, monkey. And then it's like, whoa, that's really not even that funny. I don't know. And then they had to add in all this stuff. Like, they do pranks on people. And like, they pranked Stevie Wonder once. They did a hidden camera prank on Stevie Wonder on bloopers and practical jokes with Dick Clark and Ed McMahon. Was it funny? Not really. Oh my god. I remember being a kid. Oh my god. And being like, there was the first time we were being like, I don't know if this is okay. Oh my god. This movie, not good. I don't think you can do this. Oh my god. Like, you cannot imagine. That sounds horrible. It was horrible. But, but. But, even if I had, I generally swear a lot. Like, a lot. So when you mess up here. Well, like, even on Nickelodeon with children, I was known to drop the f-bomb on when I messed up. And that made it to their blooper reel. Yeah. People know the blooper reels kind of started to be like, end of the season, we all kind of have a rap party and we all watch everybody's f-ck. But yeah, my, my, my never get on it. Yeah, because it was just bleep bleep bleep bleep. Yeah. And then I was like, I'm with children because everyone had children on the show and they knew how to be with children. I was like, you're smaller than I am. What does that mean? Yeah. And why don't you understand this word? Yeah. I don't know. You're younger. How much younger? You're not just small. You're not just far away. You're not just a perspective. Yeah. No, I'm the same way. I know I do how to talk to people. I don't have children never will. And I'm just like, can I just talk to you like a person? I don't understand. Right. Do I, should I? Yeah. Do I talk like I'm, yeah, I understand. Yeah. I am. It's very weird. Like we, um, my wife and I had to babysit my, my uncle's only eight years old, other me because my mother's from a family of like 10. And so my cousin is like 10 years old. And so she stayed in our house like the day after, uh, was, day after Thanksgiving. So we're like doing Christmas decoration decorate and stuff. And I'm just kind of like asking her about what she asked for for Christmas. But like the same way you would ask someone like how the numbers are at work. You know, like working, treating you. No, it's just like a total. She probably loved that. I see. I can never tell him. No, no. I appreciate being talked to you. I know. Absolutely. Because I, I would have very difficult times, uh, acting with children. I, there's very little work in Boston for acting stuff. We get a lot of commercials and every so often they'll call me in for stuff. And I, you know, I don't really act on my comedian, but I'll go because I'm like, wow, I want to stay on their radar or whatever. Yeah. But it'll all do something horribly, not appropriate. Yeah. And for some reason, it's, they always call me into like dads in like toy commercials. Oh, I get that. And I'm like, I, and so I had to read with this kid and it was like a little Asian kid. And, uh, it was for some Fisher Price thing. And now she's like, I don't know how to talk this kid. And I was talking like a coworker. I remember we were doing, they were filming it and I was like, you know, this is weird, right? Like this doesn't, this just seems weird. It was just like, okay, thanks. It's just like this is just bizarre. I think it doesn't work. But then other people would go in there and be like, Hey buddy. And I'm just like, no, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know how to do this. So I'm so impressed with how you're like, if you just look at your filmography, it's just, as I said before, there's so many kinds of things. Because I haven't had a job that lasted long enough. Is that what it is? A lot of credits because I haven't been on anything longer than three years. Well, yeah, I guess there's there was two or three regular series that you were regulars in. But do you, I mean, if you had a choice, obviously you'd probably rather be in like one thing for 20 years or do you kind of like the constant change? Well, I do like constant change, but I sure would like the opportunity to be in something for a long time. I remember when people were leaving ER. Because you did two episodes of that, I think. Did I? No, I think I only did one. Just one. And I think I was mostly off camera. You're a therapist or something like that. How do you know? Okay, you know everything. I watched a lot of TV. Okay, so yeah, I was mostly off camera. That was a show that I was a big fan of that I finally got to be on. And I was like, I'm like, yeah, that was really exciting. But you know, people would leave the show. And I'm like, why? First of all, why would you leave a show this good? And second of all, why would you leave a money train? Yeah, it's so weird. Be like, well, I could make it to the 100 episodes to get to syndication, but I'm going to take off. Yeah, no. But then you look at the people who left, and it's like Julianna Martellis and George Clooney. And so, you're like, no, Wiley is on. No. Yeah. But they came back or whatever. And they were, they were really good actors. They're really good actors. But I would have stayed on the show. I guess he gets sick. And I would, I would stay on any show if people were like, we're gonna go to that show. I really can't imagine. I mean, luckily I was a therapist. I got to sit in a chair. Yeah, I didn't have to move. There were no tracking shots. I didn't have to walk down the hall. You'd have to memorize complicated medical jargon. I mean, I, I, I, I, there's a couple things I'm terrified of my life. Terrified to be an Aaron Sorkin thing to be in a doctor in ER. Okay. I just, I, I think I, I, well, I'd be fired. Because the memorization, I mean, that's a thing I think people overlook with acting is one of the things that I cannot do. I cannot memorize things. Believe it or not, I have to learn things. Like if I memorized a script to do it, I would always know it. Like, I can't just be like, I have the lines, I did my part and now it's gone. It's like in here or it's not. So I have a really hard time with memorizing stuff. And that's what terrifies me or that stuff. So if you're also like, memorizing the stuff that doesn't make any sense because it's like long Latin words. And not only that, they're spitting it out when there's usually a special effect, like a blood thing that they'd have to reset for 20 hours after. And yet at least, effects guys who are like, don't blow this shit up. Blood off of everything that was going to be another eight hour day. Eight hours. That pressure must be insane. Yeah, I can understand like how that may have gotten intense. Yeah. But you have to deal with it, which is nice. No, no, I didn't. Was there a part that you were like, like, yeah, I could do that knowing you couldn't. And then you had to go in and be like, oh no, like I know a lot of people who are like, they don't tell them I can ride a horse or I got a skate. I did have to ride a horse, but they knew I didn't know how to. And they just, they trained me a little bit. Yeah, but that would be scary. But there's some stuff like, because I'm really a pussy and I'm scared of physical stuff. I think they have me jump over a fence or something. And I'm like, oh, the stunt double could. Yeah, that's why we have some people. I'm like, oh, you want her to do it? Like, isn't that why she's here? Yeah. I mean, anything. I'm like, let them do it. That they're going to be much superior. And so we have them. Well, it's soccer. Oh, you had to do stuff. Yeah, I had a fabulous stunt woman. She was fantastic, but they also wanted us to do it, too. Right. And luckily, the stunt woman patted me from, and in any time in an position to hire her, I will, because she was awesome. She patted me from head to toe. Yeah. Because I was like, I don't do this. Because you're not trained for that. It also was honest. This, um, it was a, was it Warner Brothers universal? I don't know, but it was behind a stage. Right. Something that they hadn't used in a long time. And so there was all these problems. First of all, I was like, if we don't get the hunt of Iris after this, we should all be thankful. I mean, that does two comments to him. It has been, yes, it was like, the years of, of theatrical, not theatrical, 50 years of real dust back and we're running through it and falling down. And I was like, and, you know, we're going to get Ernie Kovacs's cold. I was, and I remember, you know, I'm, I'm a killer. I'm chasing this person. And, and I just remembered like, you know, I was like, I was trying. Yeah. How many killer were those you do doesn't want to get dirty? I don't want to get dirty. I don't want to touch it. And then we had a fall on it. I was like, I have to fall in the dirt. Yeah. And you would think that, I imagine you're probably like, when you're looking at what you have to do for the day, you're like, Oh, studio. That's better. It's not a location. So you probably are right. Exactly. And then they're like, no, this is, this is not dress dirt. This is dirt. Yeah. Oh, dear. Yeah. Did I mention I'm 53? What was, um, we were going back to your mom's being kind of dismissive of your career choice, your lifestyle choice. Yeah. Was there a thing where she kind of came around? Like, was there a thing where she was like, Oh, this is, this is for real now. I, I, I recant my earlier statement, maybe not so bluntly, but has it ever happened? No, no, she's no longer here. Oh, I'm sorry. No, I don't think so. So she was still kind of like, I don't got to get this out. I just wish. Oh, I just wish you just can't you get on a soap opera? Because that was studying employment. Right. I'm like, well, I'm not, you know, oh, I just wish you could just, it's a different kind of act. And there's nothing wrong with them. Yeah. I, I, oh, they should show up. They didn't hire me. Um, but she just wanted me to be steadily employed, but she had been married to an artist and she knew how hard that was. She was more, it wasn't that more concerned for your future. Yeah. And she didn't think I suck. Right. Um, but sometimes that doesn't matter. You could be the best. That's one of the things out here too, is like your, your fate's so not in your hands and all those ways. And you could be great, but the person's like, well, I pictured that part as, uh, someone with, uh, different color hair. Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, okay. You remind me of my ex-wife. Yeah. Bye. Um, but yeah, no, I don't think she ever did. And I remember when Herman's head first aired, um, there was a scene where I, I think we're all sitting on the head was sitting on the couch or something. And I call her like, what do you think? She goes, you must never cross your legs like that. Your legs looked really fast. Very unflattering. Yeah. And I went, oh, okay. Can you get down on the phone? No, no one's as good as deflating your balloon. I'm not a parent. That is a unique skill that they would have that. Absolutely. It's like, yeah, I mean, my, my parents never come singing to comedy, which I kind of like. But, um, when they have, it's just kind of like, hmm, and our, my mother, I've never seen a laugh in my life. And a lot of it is like, a lot of it's stories about growing up and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I've told the story before. We might appreciate it where, um, I was hosting, I used to host this weekly show at like kind of a small club in Boston and Louie CK was around, cause he was shooting that movie, the invention of lying with her teacher face. Oh, yeah. Okay. So they would come by and just do sets. Oh, wow. And so for some weird reason, my mother was like, I'm going to come to the show today, which is really weird. And she brought a bunch of her friends and Louie called and he's like, Oh, can I come down and do some stuff, which obviously, yes. And he comes down and he does like 45 minutes on my mother sitting in the front row, just staring around and cross-armed. And everyone's dying laughing. And so he comes back to the back of the room and he's like, Oh, that woman's brutal. And I was like, yeah, it's like, she just hates her life. I was like, Yeah, yeah, pretty much. And it was just like, and the next day, I was like, that guy was really famous. She was like, Oh my God. Yeah, you know, you never, and it's 22, like my family thinks I'm very conservative and very quiet. Oh, wow. Which, because I don't have like tattoos in my face or something. So I met it's weird how your family looks at you totally differently than how you really are or, you know, what you're doing, especially when you're far away. Like, did the rest of your siblings kind of stay close to home or go into like more traditional businesses? I have two sisters who live out here. Okay. And one is a singer-songwriter and a voice of our artist. My brother was in radio for a long time. Okay. So it did kind of run in the family. Yeah, a little bit. But the rest of them know like my brother was an insurance adjuster. One brother is an editor for like books. Right. And my other sisters in banking and not banking. She's a teller. She's a teller. No, she's something funny. Every time she tells me what she does. But now she glaze over like she's doing an EP. No, I try to understand and I can't. She works for Vulcan materials now and she's like a product manager. No, she's a plant manager. Okay. I mean, she's an assistant plant manager. She has something to do with rocks. Anyway, and then my other sister just retired. She was a school teacher for like 30 some odd years. What a wide variety of professions. Like, that's, that's, I know a lot of people come from big families. Yeah. And you're up in the Catholic Northeast. And a lot of them usually end up being similar. But that's like every job on earth. That's, that's such a lie. Only thing that none of us are artists because my father made sure none of us were. Was he a commercial artist? Yes, he was a commercial artist. And then when that dropped out in the beginning of the 60s, which Mad Men so perfectly showed. Yeah, that would be a show he would be like, why would we want to watch that? We lived through that. Oh my god, I can't imagine what he would have thought he would have been so depressed. They would have been worse than the World War II thing. Well, you're much worse than the World War II thing. And kind of might have been called home. That sounds familiar. That sounds familiar. Homeward? Home? Not homeward bound. Something like that. Home not homeland. Yeah, I'll look it up. I'll put it in the notes for the show. Yeah, it's so good. Yeah. And yeah, he would have. Anyway, so Mad Men really so anyway, when that dropped out, he, he started doing portraiture and stuff like that. Right, right. And so he, he'd still had a hand and he started, he still did layout design and stuff like that, but it moved more towards that. But if anything, that's kind of presenting to you the way, like, the hustle that you have to do as an actor, where it's, you know, you got to change it. Or it's the next job, adapt or whatever. So it kind of makes sense that. Yeah, so I never had a problem with being unemployed. I mean, I never liked being unemployed. No one likes being unemployed, but I certainly- You know something's coming. Yeah, I was like, well, no. But I just- You can tell yourself something. Yeah, it sounds good. But I mean, it was like, well, this is, this is what happens. Yeah. Like, if my sister, the rock woman, if she, the asphalt woman, if it, like, she- If she got laid off, she'd be the end of the world. Yeah. Not good. Not good. Needs no, doesn't know. See, I wish I could, I mean, one of the things that has kind of kept me from moving out here, which we'd like to do is, is that. And I've been- The down? Yeah, and I've, I've been the person who's like, well, you have to keep my office job, because, you know, I don't know what's going to happen. And in a lot of ways, it kind of screws you over a little bit, because, you know, who knows what you could have done. And, you know, I always say, like, oh, if we were destitute, we could move and pursue things, because we wouldn't be like- Well, you, you, your bottom line goes way down, because it has to. Like, I tried to do a yoga studio for three years, and I invested a lot of time and a lot of energy into it. I was the teacher. It wasn't like, I invest in you. It was my yoga studio. You saw our yoga, and you were like, you got it, man. I'm going to invest in you. You got a kid. And so, I thought I never was going to act again. So I thought, you know, because the roles were drawing up. And I said, I got to, I got to do a business. I got to do business. Well, it failed so badly. And I still was getting more jobs acting than I was doing that. But my acting was suffering horribly, and my age had dropped me. And they showed up, because I couldn't focus on it. I actually canceled auditions to try to make this thing that was going in the toilet work. And that didn't, I think it can work for some people. That did not work for me. I always call it a futon. It's not a good bed, and it's not a good couch. It's both what isn't really great and either. Like, you kind of want- If you don't care about money, if you're willing to not care. Well, the highs are higher, but the lows are lower. It seems like you, you kind of- But as long as you have, if you've saved up money, yeah. If you've saved up money, you can take for risk. I don't know. I would encourage you. Well, thank you. It's something I definitely think about it quite often. Because you obviously are also incredibly entrepreneurial. I do, this is hilarious to me because it's, I wish I started doing this so much earlier. So I've been doing stand-up for like 12 years, and then my stand-up is nothing to do with pop culture stuff. And then I started- Really? Nothing. I never mentioned it. Part of it is because I started in England, and I kind of couldn't. So I sort of developed this, like personal storytelling style. And so by the time I had come back to Boston, and I was kind of already set in what I did. And so I never talked about this stuff. And if someone would come over my house, I actually have a spinning rack with all these TV guides. And if my friends were hanging around, we'll flip through. And I remember this show and whatever. And so one of my friends was actually like, you should do a podcast of that. And all comics and podcasts, and a lot of them are just like hanging around. And I'm like, this would be great if I knew these people, but I don't know what they're talking about. So I never had a good idea. And I was like, oh, that might be fun. So that's when I started doing this. And I really realized how much more I like talking to people than like the weird fake one-sided conversation of talking to 200 people at once that you're not interacting with them at all. I would so much rather talk to people doing interviews than do stand up. And it's such a weird revelation to me. Very, very odd. What does your wife feel about moving on? Oh, she'd move out here in a second. Oh, so it really is you. Yeah. It's you putting some breaks on. If we could save up, we'd be out here. We would be out here in a heartbeat. So we're trying. But I think we would have to be like, we'd have to get one of us at least, but I'd have to have a job about her first and all that kind of stuff. So we used to go to back to England every year to visit friends and her family like she's from England. And then the first time we came out here, and she was like, it's the same cost and duration of flight. People can come visit us. We haven't been back in like six years. Really? Yeah. We just have her family will come visit us and we'd come out here. Six years? Yeah. That's a long time. It is. But it wasn't like a vacation when we'd go. Because we'd go and run around and we have to see everybody. And you know, her family's from like the middle of nowhere. So we'd spend a week there and there's nothing to do. The only thing to do, I would try to book some shows, which I would sometimes get, but the only thing to do is there was a 24-hour basically Walmart. Like they're there. Like it's called Azda, and you'd be like, I guess we'd go walk around Azda. That was like the only thing that everything's causing like five o'clock. So I don't believe we're not necessarily going to go back. But yeah, I thought I don't like New York and I could never. And why did you not go to New York actually when you? Because I didn't sing or dance. Okay. That's what it was. Yeah. And I went, well, you didn't want to do Broadway-stage stuff. So I like it was the place to go. I mean, well, I don't sing or I would be employed. Yeah. And I knew it'd be really hard. And at that time, well, still New York is more expensive than here. Yeah. And with the weather and everything like that. And my agent came out here. So I followed her. I just knew I wouldn't, I knew I wouldn't be employed. Yeah. I mean, that's one of the things for me too, because I'm like, New York is everything bad about Boston, plus additional bad things. It's like more expensive. People are more miserable. And it's all the bad weather and everything else that we have. So yeah, out here, it's a totally different world that I'm like, yeah, that's great. It actually came earlier. But yeah, the business is tough, I imagine. Well, but there's so many other things to do here. Yeah. I mean, you know, so it's yeah, the business is tough. But everything else is great. You can go hiking. Yeah. It's great food. Yeah. It's good food. Yeah. I mean, I mean, that favorite movie you have, they're showing it at midnight with the whole cast and the director and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Which was one of the weird things that was everything was so familiar to me when I came here, which was really weird from watching so much television. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if you experienced that every once in a while, so you're growing up. You're like, yeah, I know this. I've seen this house. Um, I relate more to people than, okay, environment. Right. So no. So when you met some of the people that you watched on things growing up, did you, there's a weirdness there where you're like, I feel very familiar with you, but you've never met me. And that's got to be really strange. Well, there was one time on, I did, uh, I was auditioning for Dallas the early years. It was Dallas. Oh, yes. It was the prequel to Dallas. You played Ellie. Miss Ellen. Miss Ellen. Yeah. So it was a prequel to Dallas and Liz, um, I think she ended up playing my sister-in-law or whatever. But anyway, we were at the audition and I'm waiting in the room. And I think she was on one life to live at the time. She was that, that, or general hospital. And I was an avid viewer. Right. And, um, I remember sitting down next to her going, how are you? Yeah. You've been through so much. Yeah. And she went, I'm fine. I'm like, really? I'm so glad to hear that. Yeah. And she goes, thank you. And I went, because, oh my God. You're talking to the puppet. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I went, I, you don't know her, Molly. You've been watching her on TV for the last five years. But a soap is such an even more hyper version of that because you're watching them every day. That's what I'm saying. She was on a soap and I watched her every day. And so, you know, and then we both were casting it together. So then I could say, you know how I was super overly familiar the first day. Yeah. And she went, oh, I get it. I got it all the time. Maybe. I just probably didn't expect it in a waiting room to audition. Right. Exactly. Does anyone ever done that to you? Like, what was the first thing? Does anyone recognize you from or they've like, a character name? No. But everyone thinks I, if you've either worked with them or was their neighbor? With a high school. Right. Yeah. I get that. I mean, people recognize me and legitimately recognize me and some people actually know my name or they know the character's name or whatever. There's that. But most of it is like, don't I know you? It's not my sister. And I've gotten better at it as the years go on. But I'm still not really great at it. It's uncomfortable. I mean, if people know who I am, it's more comfortable than them not knowing why. But and also or like, I know you're in TV. What have you done? And I'm like, why are you making me rattle off my website? And I used to rattle it off. Right. And they would go, no, no, no, no. And I went, oh, and I finally went, I've been doing it for 30 years. Hopefully you've seen something. Hey, why don't you check out IMB? I'm trying as much as I can to be as nice because of course I want people to watch me. Yeah. But I've been known to be a real bitch. And I, I'm sorry. It's a human thing, I think. Yeah, but they don't know that. True. And people don't know that you're, you know, maybe you're having a bad day or something. But they don't, they don't. It's tough to be hyper aware of that, I think, when people interact. Like when I, when I've had times and I've opened for like very famous people and I see them after the show and, you know, night three, they're answering the same questions for these people. And I'm like, I couldn't, I'd be like, ah, after like two days. And they're brilliant at it. Yeah. And I think that's what makes the difference between a star and just an average actor is that, that they have this largess. And so I'm trying to get this largess and the, because now I'm understanding from the other point of view, these people don't know that it is embarrassing to have to list your resume. Right. It's fantastic. They somehow kind of sort of remember me that that's fabulous. Of course I want that. And seeing you as like a highlight, that's their story now. Like they, we saw that lady from the thing. She was. But yeah. You know what I mean? That's like such a big deal to see that someone he recognized from TV. Yeah. So it, but it's hard to, you know, from your perspective, it'd be like, I'm trying to buy coffee. Oh, and it's generally always when I look my worst. Well, yeah, obviously. Oh, it's one of our, how do you recognize, what do I look like? If you recognize me today, what did I look like on the show? Tell me what you saw me and look because I really need to watch that. Please tell me. Please tell me. Yes. Yeah. It's very important that you remember what it was because I need to know. Do you like, I don't remember? Here's my number. Here's what you do remember. What could I end TV? Call me immediately. Call me immediately because I, um, yeah, inevitably. It's very, very awkward. I imagine. This is something I rarely do talk too much about what someone's working on currently, but I noticed that you're an eye zombie. I'm an eye zombie. Which I was very excited about. I am too. Yeah, because I, I'm a huge comic nerd and I, uh, I read all the comics and I was like, Oh, wow, I'm excited for. I very rarely these days get excited for like, a new show. Yeah. Um, so you're a regular on the show. Are you? No, you're a bunch of episodes. Referring. Okay. Okay. Are you a monster of some sort? Can you not say? You know, I, I don't remember signing a non-exclosure agreement. I can say who I am. Okay. But I don't think I can say anything else. I'm her mom. Okay. Okay. Interesting. I look very much forward to watching that show. No. Will you watch that show? Oh, yes. I'm going to watch this show. I love him. I love him. A lot of the major plot, I imagine you've kind of just have your scenes. So you're kind of be seeing it for the first time. How weird is that? Where you kind of know what your scenes are like, but then you're like, Oh, it makes so much more sense now that I've seen the rest of it. Oh, yeah, you know, I think they would have given me the scripts that I asked for them. And maybe I should because I'm reading the finale now. Yeah. I imagine that would be very confusing because like a lot of people don't know. Well, because Rob Thomas also jam-packed so much stuff. There's so much stuff. It's very, uh, um, Librantheon. Yes. Yeah. And, um, yeah. So from a work perspective, that must be really tough to latch into. And it's probably shot more like a movie, not in order. Well, no, it's because my relationship to my daughter is my relationship to my daughter. Yeah. So that's all you have to focus on. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's not spouting complicated medical job. Um, I was plotless. All right. You want to see? Yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. How hard is that to not talk about stuff when you have non-disclosure grants? Well, I, I, uh, it's not easy because also, there's the non-disclosure thing you sign, but then there's stuff when you go on to, let's say Stalker. Yeah. Or even Castle. They'll say, we really would like you to participate in social media and Twitter or anything like that. But don't mention the guest stars and don't mention this. I'm like, well, then I can't mention anything because I'm a guest star. I mean, there's language I don't understand. Yeah. So I end up not really doing anything. Yeah, because you don't want to get in trouble too. I don't want to get in trouble. You never know the video. And so I just, I just twiddle my phone. It's so, that's such a weird new world too, where when there's probably less EPKs and stuff like that now because, you know, when you're doing the shows in the 80s and 90s, it was, you had to have entertainment tonight on the set. Today's the day E is coming to shoot, but now it's kind of like a constant barrage of real-time updates where you give them enough, but not too much. And that's really weird to me. And I think that there, that's, and a lot of these people feel more connected to the shows that they like. But I think it makes shows less exciting because you're kind of like, oh yeah, I knew all this was going to happen because I've been following it very closely on social media. And people read like spoilers and they, you know. Yeah, I don't, I don't win any, I'm, like I said, I'm a big TV fan, so I don't read any of that stuff. Yeah. And when I read reviews, I don't read, you know, I'll, I'll maybe read like the first, like, should I go to it or should I not? But I don't want to read the plot. I don't want to read any of that. I signed up for, amethrones, amethrones, amethrones. There was something you could, Twitter or something, you could sign up to the Reven, find out what the Reven has the site that tells you. The first person to know. To know something. And I signed up for it. And so I'm occasionally, but all they do is they'll show you a new teaser or something like that. What is that? Yeah. And um, yeah, and I signed up like, I want to get the teasers. Right. Because you want to feel part of it. I think that's part of the thing too. Is there, is there one show that you wished you could have been on, but you never got to be on either maybe you even auditioned for it, didn't get to do or like a show that you absolutely loved that you just always would have, would have been the greatest thing for you to have done? They're people. Just a good time wish. A show that, well, yeah, I would have liked to have been on the Marytime More Show, but I was too young. Oh, I think it's ending. I would have liked to have done that is pretty white show. Oh, yeah. Hot in Cleveland. Hot in Cleveland. Yeah. Hot in Cleveland. Um. That's a murderer's role of TV people. Yeah. And so funny. Yeah. Those women are so funny. Yeah. I'm sure there's a million. I bet there is. Yeah. There's not one. That's fine. Yeah. What are you, you said you watched a lot of TV now and you didn't have a TV for like 10 years. Just you were busy. I think I got out of the habit in college. Right. And then I got snooty in college too. It was like TV. Yes. It's the masses. It's the masses. And then, um, I came out here, may not have had a TV right away. Oh my God, I didn't. The first place I lived, I didn't have a TV. And then I started to go, well, I'm going to be employed in TV. Hopefully, employed in TV. I should know what's going on. I should know what's going on. And, and actually, Molly, if you remember, TV is why you wanted to become an actor. Yeah. Kind of really liked it. And it's really why you want to become an actor. How strange like you kind of lose sight of the, were you like, I'm going to do theater or was it just like? Well, I knew I couldn't really make a living doing it. Right. Um, I came out here to do anything and I all of a sudden realized, like, I don't know. I really can't remember. I just know, I got it really. It's one of those things in your 20s when you're like, this makes perfect sense. And later you're like, what the hell is it? Why did I spend any amount of time not watching TV? Right. So you had a TV by the time you were on it and could watch it. Oh, yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, no. I think the first thing I did was like, not landing on it. And you didn't see that. I know. What was the first thing you remember watching yourself on? Did you make a big deal out of it? Were you like, this is a thing? No. Do I remember? Probably good. It might have been an elf. No, I saw an elf. I thought I was funny. Yeah. That is funny. I don't remember now, but I just remember laughing at the time. Yeah. Well, that's good. I know. Because he's so funny. Yeah. There was a that the stuff that that character got away was saying on that show that if it wasn't coming from a carpet sample puppet, people would have been like, there's no way we're not letting this go. My dog looks a bit like it. Does he? He does a little bit. Yeah. I should have named him my dog. His dog pulled out. He is constantly trying to do elf stuff still. So, Elf had a talk show on TV land for a while, which was actually really good. And it was sort of everything people liked about the old tonight show that you kind of forgot we don't have on talk shows anymore. So it was that kind of thing. He does a lot of ads and stuff as Elf. But I feel like he probably made Elf money and might kind of not have to work that much. But it will Elf will pop up every now and then he'll have him do some stuff. He'll see him do an ad or something, which is like, I feel like doing an Elf again, no problem. I know that we're pushing do a new Elf series and they were going to do like some TV movies to tie it up. Oh, really? Yeah, but they did. They did one TV movie and it ended on a cliffhanger. And then they were gonna come back and do these others and they never did. So there's a lot of there's a whole generation of children who loved Elf, watched this thing. And it ends basically implying that the government has got Elf and are about to dissect him. So everyone else got dissected like that's like the ending of Elf for people, which is sort of probably unintended consequences of making this television that people invested in. Fantastic. Yeah, what a great way to end show main character he was diet but they did not get a chance. Did that just get canceled or did you guys know what was gonna end? Peter Turnan had left Fox and a woman had come in. I don't remember name because I don't remember anything. She did the house cleaning. She did the house cleaning, but they tried to make a female version. So the idea is Herman was gonna have a girlfriend. So you go in his head and you go in her head. Oh, and that didn't make it to the ear. Right? Did they do that? Yeah, I just didn't. It was everyone trying furiously. Like how can we save the show? Right, right. But she really she thought the show was misogynistic. Really? Yeah, she's that must be awful when like that just kind of comes down from on high. People in charge hate this shit. Goodbye. Goodbye. But you got three years old. We got three years old. It's very fondly remembered. As I said, it comes up all the time on the show and a lot of email. Any time we mentioned Herman said I'm showing people email right away. I love that show so much. It was funny. It was a funny show and didn't really get played in reruns. No, because it was owned by Touchstone. It was that they got bought. Yeah, they're saying like it had like three companies that and so no one was going to make any money out of it. So they went. No, which must be really frustrating. Well, it is a little bit because I haven't seen any in a long time. And I it'd be interesting to see if it holds what it probably is really dated. I'm sure the costume is really dated. A bit, but it actually is like I can hook you up. This is still work. It is really funny still. Yeah, and I think that the cut-ins and stuff with the inside the head is such an innovative, interesting idea that that really makes it work still. So if it was just the workplace comedy, it would probably be good, but probably a little dated. But with that extra element, it becomes a little more timeless and it really works out. Okay, that's neat. Because I think you did a dream on. I did do a dream on. Oh my god, I had such a crush on him. Oh, Brad Ben Ben. Oh, yeah, he he's a guy that didn't really do a ton that I saw after. He was. But that's a show that had a concept sort of similar to her content. Yeah, definitely. And just with a different presentation. Yeah. And that doesn't hold up as well. It doesn't. It really doesn't. And I wish that it did because I loved that show. And there are some really great episodes of it, but the the conceit of the editing in the clips doesn't work as well. I think as the Hermans head one, I've rewatched both in recent memory. And the one thing that too that I that is slightly off putting about Dream On, which I loved that show. And everyone that did it, you know, went on to create friends and, you know, John Landis, and it is being one of the first HBO shows. Yeah. They were like, all right, we wrote the script. It's HBO though, so we got to have some nudity and some swear. Where sometimes it works and it makes sense in the show. But sometimes you're like, Oh, you're just like, Oh, no, we forgot to put the nudity in this week. You know, and it's just like really shoe-horned in. And it's like really jarring. You don't have to do it every week if it doesn't work. It's okay. So some of those are a little bit off of it. But yeah, when you compare those two shows, which have a similar concept, it's interesting to compare them to see which one doesn't. Yeah, I thought he was really funny on that show. And that, and I'm also. He may have been someone who said, you know, I'm done. He could have. I think he's married to someone. He's married to the metal and stone. Yes. Yes. I mean, they're still married. I think they still are. Yeah. So I had a big crush on during the show, and I did this only went up. So but I had a big crush on them. That was hard for me too. It's like, cause he was like, Oh, it's brand big. And then I found out he was married to metal and stone was like, Oh, I can't count. Yeah. You have all the people. That's why it's happened to be her. She's so gorgeous. She's on hot and clean one as well. I was on that show as his ex-wife. Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. When he balanced. Yeah. Okay. She. What did she did something? We did. Well, I got to work with her once. She was on just shoot me. She. I think she guessed it on something. I kind of had an arm and head. No, I did this thing called life's work, and I think she did an episode. Okay. And it would have been right in the middle of shoot me, I think. Probably. That was at the same time. And I think she came over to do an episode or something. Boy, she a person. Yeah. She's a great human being. And she all, but she always plays like a cold bitch, too. Like she's always like the waspy and so many things. And brilliant at it. Yeah. And it's probably the warmest kind is down to earth. That's amazing. Human being, she's, she's a rock solid. That's going to be a little jarring when you're used to these people being a certain way on all the things you've seen them in, and then you meet them, and you're like, Oh, you're not that at all. I know you're so super wonderful. Because some people, you're like, you're exactly the same on off-camera. The characters you play, they just hire you. There's definitely people I know they're like that. And that's a really like totally different. Yeah. She's, she's, I really liked her. She's so much. Yeah. She seems like her really, she was the ex-wife on Baywatch, too, now that I'm thinking about it. She was David Hasselhoff's like cold bitchy ex-wife. Really? Oh, that's funny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was always saying he's not raising his son right on the beach with all that danger. She was really funny in three months. Oh, she was great on that. Yeah. They had to shoot me and they had a wave. I mean, she's funny. Dreamer was a funny show. I just think that because it doesn't age well. It does age well. Yeah. Brad Ben Ben was in a Dolph Lundgren movie called Like Come in Peace, which was called Dark Angel as well, where this is a real movie. Dolph Lundgren and Brian Ben Ben are mismatched cops fighting an alien drug dealer who, who, who comes to earth scares people before they die so he can extract their adrenaline, which is then synthesizing to a very expensive drug on whatever planet he's on. Oh my god. And Brian Ben Ben is like the, like the, by the book cop and he, it's not intended to be funny and he's so funny and it's like, he's clearly playing it as a comedy and it's such an entertaining movie. It is so entertaining. What was that? 91. It was like around the same time as Dreamer. It was the only movie I remember. It was a dark, what? It was called Dark Angel or, or I come in peace. So it's been released as both. I think it's on Blu-ray now or DVD. It is, it's really entertaining. If you like those just ridiculous 90s action movies so over the top, and he's, he's really funny in it, but it's like a, it's a big like, I'm too old for the shit kind of, you know, part and, you know, Dolph Lundgren's like a plays by his own rules, turning the gun in bad. It's like every cliche, but then also, oh and, and the aliens weapon is a gun that shoots CD's because it's the future. Like, he's spinning. Oh my god. See, I come in peace. If you get a Friday night with a pizza, it's, you can't go wrong with that. It is amazing to me that you, it is difficult for you to memorize lines, but you have a vault-like memory. Yeah, I don't know how to control it. I do have a problem. I've made no effort to remember these things. Like, there are things that I'll remember. You're like a superpower that you haven't harmed? I can't harm it. I don't know how to control it. I need training. I need some like, Eastern philosophical, uh, seafood. You can find it here. Yeah, I'm sure there would be. I'm sure there would be your vault of knowledge. Although I used to get a lot of weird phone calls from people I hadn't talked to in years who were like, "Hey Ken, when will that move with Brian, Ben, Ben, and Don? I'm like, uh, I come in peace. Thanks." Yeah, but now they're just looking up online. So there's very, uh, I know that's the other thing. I had this big, I should get rid of it. I had this big encyclopedia of film. Yeah, like the one I'm Alton guides and all the, yeah. Completely. But a lot of those are, like, I've kept a lot of those. Have you? Because a lot of the stuff online is wrong. I've read like Wikipedia articles or if read things about movies or I'm like, "No, this is not correct. This isn't correct." Do you ever, do you ever type in and correct things? I haven't gone that far. Like, I feel like if I started doing that, I would never stop. Like, I just feel like, "All right, I have to correct all of these now." But I've definitely seen inaccuracies where I'm like, "I know for a fact that's not true." Or that person didn't play that part. Oh, wow! Because no one vets it. And at least with the books, somebody was fact checking. Somebody was there, right? Yeah, which was... That's interesting. Huh. Because anyone can update IMDb and anyone can update Wikipedia. At least if there was an editor at Random House, they're like, "We're gonna do a minimal moment." Well, fact checking. What Herman's head did, he fact checked. Exactly, exactly. A role that probably doesn't exist is a job anymore. I don't think anyone checks facts anymore. They don't really care. You really think... No, no. He's not a fact checker. They go online to check. They do. Well, I worked in TV news for when I was in college. Yeah. Sort of in this transition where in radio and TV, every single radio station and your brother probably would have some things to say about this too, used to have a news department, a full-time news department, even like a kiss FM. And a full-time news department with, it might have been three or four people, but a full new staff who would have researched and write stories. And when they did the news every hour, that was like a real news. And that's expensive. You get to do a lot of research. You got to do a red actual stories. And in the 90s, they kind of figured out what we can do is say crazy things. Make people angry. Get a lot of calls to come in, because that's cheap. And it doesn't really matter if it's driven up because that's entertaining. So you're not presenting stuff as news anymore. You're presenting opinions and you don't have to research it. So I've seen stuff slowly move towards that way. And everything is now like an opinion or if someone's wrong about something like, oh, I guess it was wrong. Instead of like, these are the facts. Yeah, they used to have a news five minutes of news every hour or something like that. Every hour on every state. It didn't matter what top news. Oh my god. I totally forgot that. Yeah. So I think people don't care anymore. And now it's only K and X or whatever 10, 70 or whatever the thing is all the time. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's so narrow cast. And you have people who even the news itself has become that where they go, we're creating news to reinforce what you think, whatever it is, on this side, this side or this side. And so they don't really fact check that much either. So even the news, they're just like, we don't if the fact contradicts the audience's perception. Network news, they have that fact checkers. I'm sure they probably do, but I don't think it's the way that it used to be. Wow. And you see a lot of things that have come out. Like if you remember the damn rather thing. I mean, there there's a lot of stuff like that, where they just run with stuff and they say, we'll ask for forgiveness later, but because we want to be in part of that's the 24 hour news cycle. And they're like, we've got to be the first and as long as we're first, then we'll care if we're right. Well, I guess that's what news room was partly about. Yeah. And so it's so weird to see the world change that way, where it's, people don't care, you know, if it's between the legend and the truth, whatever it was, whoever said the print the legend, that's sort of completely taken over. Yeah. So it's hard. I think people don't care as much when the internet age where they're like, Oh, that wasn't it? I don't care. Because I, I told this story on stage once where I, I, a lot of ways I'm so fueled by spite, like I will go to the ends of the earth to be proven right about something if someone's like, just really wrong. And I remember that the people I worked with were calling the elf from Rudolph Herbie. And I'm like, no, his name's Herbie. Oh, right. It's Herbie. And they're like, no, I think it's Herbie. And I'm like, no, no, his name is Herbie. Like it really, but like, who cares? So I knew that a friend of mine's grandmother worked for Rankin Bass in the sixties and then lived in Rhode Island. So I called them and I'm like, your grandma have any rank and best. So he gets me a shooting script from the thing and he scans it in. And I'm, and so I like, print it up. I'm like, this is the shooting script. It's, it's Herbie. And they're like, oh, whatever. Like they just don't care. One of these, you're just to rent it. I think, no, I actually showed clips. And I was like, it sounds like you said, because I'm like, no, no, but I think people just don't care. Like they're like, you don't know that, you're like, there's so many times I've done this. I'm like, no, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter at all. Five years later, you know, beer and you're like, I found it. I found it. Yeah. Oh, really? And I think the world's become more like that, which is probably better for a lot of things. I guess. Well, also the older I get, I realize that I guess facts are facts. I mean, his name was Herbie. But memory is a very fluid. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And so if someone's telling you a story from their past, even it might be historical story or whatever from their experience of the past and like, I don't remember it that way. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that was the meal of the time with, because a lot of my stuff on stages stories are growing up. And my family would be like, I don't remember it that way. And I'm like, but that's really how I remember it. You know, it's, who knows? Who knows? And but that's the way it is now. And you'd have to polygraph to us. Exactly. Yeah. That's that is the truth in my head. And that's definitely not lying. Although maybe that's not what happened. Yeah, I will tell a funny story. My sisters will be there. And I think I'm entertaining some people. And they're like, nah. And I'm like, okay, first of all, you're ruining it. Yeah. Who cares if that's not what happened? This is funnier. This is a funnier version. I punched it up a little bit. I didn't punch it up a bit. This is not the truth. Yeah. But they don't care. I'll get this. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. I know, I just like, that's not, I know, I hear, I whatever. I know. So fuck, check in. Lost art, but maybe I'll come back. Wow. But although I wouldn't want to live in a world where there's only facts. Well, no. Here's just facts. That's it. That's it. But I, you know, yeah, I don't know about facts. Oh, make their own, make their own. Well, yeah, facts are in questions. Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously, Hermes was, it was his name. Black and white. Yeah. But there's all the things like, yeah, you can, you can question a lot of things about it. Dates, and times. Yeah. Our factual. Yes. Unless you ask the Chinese or the Jews. As long as, you know, yeah, sliding scale into a black hole, it changes. Yeah. Yeah. But it's for the most part consistent. Yeah. The shows, if you watch a show that you're on, that's the show. That's how it went out. Everyone saw it that way. That's right. Yeah. So we at least have that. Yes, we do. Well, thank you so much for doing it. It was so much fun. Oh, thank you. There you go. Molly Hagen, a lot of laughter, a lot of fun, great person to talk to. Really, really enjoyed it. I highly recommend that you check out anything she's in. She's always great to watch and is just a great, great person. So nice. I'm so thankful that she took the time to talk to me. And I'm thankful that you took the time to listen. As always, if you like the show, please rate it, review it on iTunes or Stitcher or wherever you hear the show, tell friends about it. It's a huge help. I don't have advertisers or anything. It's all word of mouth. We'll see you again next Wednesday for another brand new episode of TV guidance counselor. Oh my god. I just had an argument with Alf. I generally swear a lot. Like a lot. You must never cross your legs like that. Your legs looked really fast.
