[music] Hello and welcome. It is not Wednesday, it's Friday so that means it's a special edition of TV guidance counselor. This is a live edition that I recorded last month at Northeast Comic-Con and I wanted to also say thank you to everyone who came out to our live edition at the Ryan Oley Comedy Festival. It was our first West Coast edition. Hopefully not our last. It was really great to meet all you guys that came out. Thank you for saying hello to me. It's always nice to meet listeners of the show because part of me doesn't believe you exist. So it's nice to put faces with the belief in non-existence. I don't know what I'm getting at there. But anyway, thank you guys so much for coming out. Hopefully we will have some more live shows planned in the near future because I really enjoy doing them. And this week is a live show, as I said, that we did last month. My guest in this episode is Paris Themin, who you will know as Mike TV from the original Willy Wonka and The Chocolate Factory. Pretty fascinating history as a child actor on Broadway. He has highly opinionated like all good New Yorkers and I think you'll enjoy it. So please sit back. Listen to this week's live edition of TV Guns Counselor from the Northeast Comic-Con with my guest, Paris Themin. Hey, it's Mike TV and it makes a lot of sense for the TV guidance counselor to have the men that was Mike TV now. Right, the TV guidance counselor. First of all, hello, hello to people in iPod world. This is like pod blog. Yes, basically, yeah. Okay, hi. And to the people that are here. So the TV guidance counselor, now I know you're supposed to be asking me questions, but what's that all about? So the premise is, so I'm a stand-up comedian mostly, but I also am a huge, I basically grew up as Mike TV, essentially, just watching television all the time. I had my own subscription to Teetah Guide that I paid for with my own money growing up. Yeah. And I own every issue. And so the premise generally is I sort of have two formats. One is someone comes and picks a TV guide from my collection. An old TV guide goes through and writes down what they would watch that week and then we kind of discussed that week in television. Okay. And then the other one is with people like yourself who are in the industry and have been in things and we kind of discuss like what you watched growing up, how that affected some of the things that you were in later and that sort of stuff. Gotcha. So yeah. And of course, the people listening to this already knew all of that and now they had to listen to you describe it to me. But anyway, I'm caught up. So let's talk about great TV because that sounds like what you're into. Because you grew up in New York City? I grew up, I was born in Boston where this interview is being conducted. Right. And by the way, for those of you who can't see us, we're in a Shriners Hall. Yes. We're sitting in these thrones because the Shriners like masons are full of symbology. And so I'm sitting in a sort of a medieval looking throne with a symbol of croquet mallets above my head. I kid you not. Yeah. And you're sitting in a throne, which is he calls himself the time lord. Yeah, it's a time lord, because he's got a an hourglass above him. So it just seems just to set the scene. Yeah, it's like a passing judgment. Like, I feel like people would be brought before us and we'd be like, you are excommunicated from the Shriners. Spanish Inquisition, Dorkamada, all of that. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, that's where we're sitting. And there are some people in the audience because we're at a convention also. So they're listening as well. To me, the best things that have ever been on TV, certainly in the last 10 years are the wire. I realize in saying that that it's not an original thought. But I think it's true. I thought that the gritty realism of the wire was really awesome. Did it bum you out, though? Like that was my problem with it bummed me out. Yeah, like these shows like, we are sort of in a golden age of television where we have these great things that movies used to do. Yes. Like 70s, my grades used to be these gritty crime drama. They could do that sort of thing before movies had to be all spectacle all the time. Yes. And I think TV is doing that now. Yes. But I always get a little bit bummed out when I watch these just dark, little unrelenting. So they're affecting you. They do. They absolutely do. Okay. Breaking bad. Yeah. Another example of an awesome, awesome series that if you take it too seriously, I'll venture to say would bum you. Oh, sorry. There's also going to be the occasional screaming. Yes. Apparently there is down at the convention downstairs. There is a costume, contest, deathmatch going on. So what you may be hearing is the throes of people in costume dying or killing each other. Now, by the way, Matt, just say at this moment, I hope that doesn't bum you out. No, that wouldn't bum you out. Okay. If real people were executed, that'd be fine. Sure. So, so Breaking Bad. Again, you see, for me, if TV is well directed, well acted, well written and affecting, that's a good thing. I mean, you're you're enjoying the craft as well, the craftsmanship that goes in, but also the story. And I get that too. I think it's I think it's the cumulative effect. Like when I met if I marathon a show like that. Yeah. You know, if I spend all day Saturday watching the wire by Sunday, I'm just like, the third one I'm going to say is equally violent. It's deadwood. Yeah. And I know you may. Did you speak with Leah? I didn't. But I've had Jim Beaver on the show. Sure. Okay. And there's a woman who is one of the pardon the term, but one of the horrors from deadwood. She has an interesting tale to tell actually. And by the way, you just probably wanted to hear about Willie Wonka too bad. It's a movie. So anyway, Leah's downstairs. She was what you call an extra and then a featured extra. She didn't want to do the topless scenes. I talked to her yesterday in the van. She said she wouldn't do the topless scenes. She started out without lines, but David Melch, who is the writer and creator behind deadwood. Yeah, the sort of genius creator of deadwood. He did this thing where he would send them to school like they had to clear their schedule so that they'd be available to be core extras for him. But then he paid for their schooling and they took acting lessons and that kind of stuff. And then eventually he started giving her lines. She's like a mentor program almost. Exactly. Promoting from within and. She's kind of the old Hollywood studio system that doesn't really exist anymore. She also said that they it was the only set that she'd ever seen where if you want to sit down, if you're an extra, you could sit down next to the producer at lunch and talk to them. And a lot of the time you probably don't know this, but there are boundaries. It's like the background sits over here and the principal sit over there. The cast is usually over there. And there's a little bit of interplay, but it would never go so far as a background to sit next to a producer. So I think that that sort of ensemble feeling and attention to, you know, even from the things that most people don't even think that much about the background players to try to make sure that they have craft is the sort of thing that I appreciate and that will maybe I'll appreciate in spite of what might be a depressing story. Well, that makes the whole product better too. When everybody's on board and you make everybody better. And I think that the age of television where and now is more like indie films in a lot of ways than studio systems. So it makes sense that you have that almost ensemble cast company kind of feel between everyone working on the show. Well, yeah, I mean, it's it's economics. It's the fact that people pay for HBO and it's also the fact that because they pay, I guess that creates a legal situation where you can be more violent, you can be more curse worthy, you can be more sexy. And that allows you to do more serious, you could say, and certainly more adult content. And it raises the bar for drama in any case. And I guess comedy too, because you could be a little bit more broad. You know, many comedians will tell you you don't have to be dirty to be funny. Johnny Carson comes to mind, but there are a lot of other guys that just go straight to that kind of a joke. So anyway, it allows it sort of allows you to go in more extreme directions. I grew up in Manhattan. Where did you grow up? I grew up in Boston, in Boston City, right outside about five miles outside. How many people were lived in the town that you was at 30,000? 30,000 people. Yeah, I grew up in Manhattan, where there's like 8 million people, 30,000 people. And it's like a concrete jungle. We were rather cynical. I grew up very fast. I was on Broadway, by the way, just to talk a little about myself, I was on Broadway at age 12. Actually, I was also on Broadway at age eight. Was that something you really wanted to do with that? I did. My mom brought me into an agent and I booked my first commercial when I was six. But because you might find a commercial. I did two dozen commercials. So I was like a full-on working child actor. Most of the auditions my mother brought me to, but many of them she didn't. And when I was on Broadway, I would take the bus from uptown to downtown and back again at the end of the night. So you're going to wise be on your years. And exactly. And the reason I'm mentioning that is because I think I might have a higher tolerance for extreme subject matter that you do. Yeah. And so that may be something that you're bringing to it rather than, yeah. I mean, the whole interview is going to be about that one comment you made, by the way. That's true. You're clear on that. That's fine. Yeah. Especially at that time that you were going up in New York, that was sort of the classic terrifying New York to a lot of people in the rest of the country. Or that's depicting. Well, I grew up in what was more terrifying. It was before it was, you know, before Giuliani before. Yeah, there was more porn going on. I was just three street walkers and the warriors. Exactly. Yeah, that's true. I didn't bring my baseball bat today. But I use on roller skates. I am a bopper. Hey, you're losing your microphone. So, um, okay. Anyway, I like those things a lot. If you want to talk about the softer side of things, I like it's not a it's not a TV thing. But I love, for instance, it's a wonderful life. Yeah. Which is just a beautiful film about positive messages. And I like Lawrence of Arabia is one of my favorites. Big epic. Huge epic David Lane. It's David Lane, right? Yeah. I mean, you know, Peter or tool. So I, what else? TV, TV, TV. You're a kid and you're sort of beyond your years kind of being very adult at like, yeah, I was years old. Yeah, I admit it. Jobs. Yeah. Did you watch kids shows? Or were you watching like the news or watching things with your parents? Okay. As a kid. Right. That's how your format goes. You don't want to know what I'm watching now. You want to know what I was watching? That is important too, because I think it, you know, they're related. Okay. So what age do you want to know about? So let's say eight when you're on Broadway. Eight. Okay. So that's 1967. So I was probably watching the monkeys, right? As everyone was. I was maybe watching Star Trek. I was definitely watching Star Trek after that. Right. Mash wasn't on yet. But Mary, all in the family was shortly to come right after that. I mean, the thing is, the things that I'm mentioning are not necessarily, I mean, I remember watching Marine Boy, if I want to get a little bit more obscure. Yeah. But a lot of the things that I'm liking, I mean, I think that it's the cream is a tendency to rise. So yeah, all in the family, mash, cheers, breaking bad, the things that I'm mentioning, everybody's like, yeah, everybody like the, you know, I watch a lot of Jeopardy. It's been on TV forever, right? Things that I don't tend to like are canned, canned laughter filled sitcoms that don't have a particular spin, right? That are very situational formulaic, you know, the sort of freeze company, you know, where it's just like they're constructed, you know, there's going to be a laugh every that's number of seconds and the things in you're never going to be surprised. It's always going to go pretty much the way that you expect. Those are particularly repugnant to me in the way that bubblegum rock and roll is, I don't know, do people even say bubblegum rock? I don't think so. I don't even know if people have bubblegum. How about pop rock, you know, I guess I'm pop rock is good. If it's again, if it's really finely crafted, well produced, okay, what, you know, bubblegum rock and roll now would be like modern country would be like the equivalent where it's just sort of like people who are like, I really like pop music, but I wanted as white as possible. You know, country I'm thinking was actually just because of my own. Again, I'm a city boy, just not that into country. The one thing that country sometimes does have going for it is great lyrics and really interesting stories and it's sort of emotional, sometimes very clever lyrically, I find, but it's usually not musically that interesting. You know, another thing I should say, and I don't know if this is that relevant, but I'm sort of a classicist. My parents were classical musicians, and I studied Shakespeare for about five years in college, and I've been to 61 countries around the world, and those are third world countries with my backpack, but also cathedrals in Europe and lots and lots of museums. I saw a lot of, I'm not hard to impress, but I schlock doesn't impress me very much. I do, it's not that I only like classical things, but I definitely understand classicism, and therefore, I'm like karaoke. When I hear people sing karaoke, and they do that thing where they're trying real hard versus going and looking at a disco dance floor where people are trying to dance and they look kind of dumb, I don't mind that at all. Well, they're totally cool with that. That's right. Yeah, it's expressive, it's fun, it's kind of cool, but when I hear karaoke and that off, that thing goes straight to my brain where they can't sing right, and it hurts my cerebellum. Yeah, I hate that. And that is much of the television now. A lot of the terrible television feels like karaoke to me. Exactly, and oh, so happy about DVRs and no more commercials. Yeah, can't tell you how happy I am about that. Did you just see the commercials that you were in as a kid frequently, like when other kids recognize you from them? Yeah, sure, absolutely. I did one that only are older people. Most of the commercials I did were so many years ago that you need to have a really old listener to know what I'm talking about. We have some old listeners. Okay, so riff reading is fundamental. There was a Pinocchio that came out of a whale's mouth, and he said, as you'll know, that it's my TV as I change my voice, he said, "Just write riff, thymethonian institution, Washington D.C. 205-6-0. If America is to grow, thinking, reading is fundamental." And that got a lot of play. And so people would hear my voice and they would go, "Oh, I've heard that. I want you the guy who did the thing." Usually, from mic TV or from any of my stuff, if someone has a photographic memory and they can see that my child's face is now my man's face, you're recognizable as being there. I'm recognizable only with context. I have this weird kind of fame where if you were to say to a random smattering of people, "Have you ever seen Willy Wonk in the Chocolate Factory?" You're going to get like 80% of the people that go, "Yeah, how many times are you kidding?" You get occasionally people that are like, "Never saw that one," but it's kind of the exception. Now, of course, people say which one, you know. But I was not swag. I was just saying to dad, I thought Alan Richmond, Rickman could have played a pretty good swagman, great. Somehow that came up because someone said Snape instead of Slugworth. So, Alan Richmond would have made a pretty cool, that would have made him so much more terrifying. Less than they Nazi-like Slugworth. So, what was I talking about? The people, oh, yeah. So, yeah, they either know that or they've seen Willy Wonka a million times. So, I have this interesting kind of fame. People know Willy Wonka. People know who Mike TV is, but because I am 55 versus 11, they have to really look at my face or have context. In order to get it. So, I'm famous, but I'm not famous. Well, it's a weird thing too. A lot of the people I've talked to have been in things that are, you know, perennial, like Willy Wonka, where you have all new generations of children that watch it every year. And they don't necessarily know that it's not a contemporary thing. Right. So, to them, you're always an 11-year-old boy that they know from this thing. And it's probably hard for them to reconcile, you know, people get older. And by the way, well, certainly kids especially. I mean, I'll just say something about kids that come up to my convention table. There is a cut-off. And by the way, parents spoiler, there's no kids in this room right now, but I'm talking to the potto sphere. And now's the time to put your hands over your kids ears if I'm going to say something and turn it up. Exactly. So, because I'm going to spoil the kids now a little, okay? So, watch out for that. If they're younger than six and they come up to my table, and the parents says to them, because parents are always excited, right? Because they grew up with me. And they're like, look, Jimmy, it's the guy who played Mike TV in the Willy Wonka movie, right? And if the kids are over, they're seven or over, they kind of go, wow, yeah, that's cool. I mean, honestly, the older I get, the more and more disaffected the kids are and the more excited the parents are. But if the kids are going to get excited, they do that after that age. They go, yeah, mom, that's cool. Wow, they're 12, they're 13. They're like, wow, that's you. That's awesome, right? If they're less than six, not only are they not excited, they're like, frightened and disaffected. What happened? Okay, spoiler, it's like a Santa Claus thing, right? That can't be me. Not only am I not in their TV in that special place where I can't be in front of them, but I'm a man. I'm not a boy. And they just watched it yesterday or something. No, no, no, I've actually seen them cry and like hug their parents because it's wrong. I thought Mike TV, I'm a man who's in front of them. How do you handle that when that happens? I try to head it off before it happens by saying, hey, how old is he? Because I know, no, I just say, just so you know, it ain't gonna, it's not gonna, and I don't, I don't mention Jolly Saint Nick, and I don't in certainly in front of me, because I don't want it to, right? What a great way to defuse it if he's crying about you, be like, there's no Santa. Exactly. That'll solve the problem. That'll solve the problem right now, exactly. Yeah. And by the way, Rosebud's a sled. Yeah. So, yeah, I forget what we're talking about, but anyway, the idea is that people do sometimes notice me, but they need context as you have. So, when you were, you've grown up in New York, and there were, in the 60s and 70s, there was a ton of stuff set in New York, but also shop there before everything kind of moved to LA for television. So, like things like Car54, are you, was still shop there? Sure. And they still use a lot of stuff at the Biograph Studio before it burned down, and there was still a lot of production going on there. Okay. Did you go to see any tapings or game shows or anything like that one? Yeah, that's interesting. In 1971, after I shot Willy Wonka, I stopped off in LA. I remember going to a party that, that, what's his name, who directed the godfather, Frank Coppola. Coppola, right. I was going to say Frank Coppola. Francis Ford Coppola was throwing for his mom. He gave his mom this expensive Mercedes Benz, but it was this very big Italian party, right during, right in and around, like the godfather, I didn't come out yet. That's interesting. The Mercedes have a big bow on it. No, I don't think it had a bow, but it was one of those big like limo ones. It was like Mercedes, I want to say 600 or 800. It was like a really cool one. And he gave it, I think it must have been that, that they already had an idea of how all the godfather was doing or going to do. Right. So I did that, and then I also visited the set of the, the Poseidon Adventure. Oh, really? That's an oldie, but a goodie. And I saw the set that was upside down at the end when Gene Hackman was going to hold on to the thing. It's called his hands and fall. And because Jack Albertson, of course, was in Willy Wonka and then in, right, who's from the Boston area originally? Is he? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sure. Yeah. He was a very nice man, by the way, just to put a little Wonka in this interview. He was a very sweet guy, as was Gene Wilder, but, but Jack was from the vaudeville days and he used to like do vaudeville routines with this and that kind of thing. You know, I probably saw the things, I was more of a Broadway and a commercial guy than a, than a TV series guy back then. I was on the Ed Sullivan show though, doing, they did a scene from The Rothschilds. One of the things that Ed Sullivan used to do is he would do scenes from the plays that were currently on Broadway. And I was in a play called The Rothschilds About The Rothschilds Family with Hal Linden, with Susan Sarandon. Barney Miller is one of my favorite shows of all time. Barney Miller, yeah, I was already, I don't know, maybe a little old for Barney Miller. I had a little too formulaic for me, you know? I mean, anyway, sorry. That's the New York that I think of though, it's Barney Miller and New York. Well, yeah, but was it even shot in New York? No, it was LA. It was shot in LA. So, okay, anyway. Yeah, the, so I did a scene from The Rothschilds, I sang and 12 to 13 somewhere in there. It was 1972 to 1973. So I was on the Ed Sullivan show and the Ed Sullivan theater on that stage. Which was, like, I don't think people really can understand how big Ed Sullivan was as a show. Well, after the Beatles especially. Yeah, no, it was, yeah, he was in the, what was really the, what do you call it, the Silver Age of television. Yeah. And it was really, people were, you know, going home and crowding around their TV as they did with radio before that. Did you watch things like that with your family or your parents? Did you watch like Ed Sullivan or is there anything? Probably, probably. I mean, you know, television, not because I was my TV, but just because I like movies and media and that kind of thing is something that I've always watched and that I've kept track of. But again, not in the obsessive way that you're describing with the TV God where you're watching the bad with the good. Yeah. And you don't, it's not that you don't care. It's not that you're not discerning, but you really want to get the whole stall to everything. I don't. I'm picky. Right. Yeah. I say, I judge and I say, my time is valuable in these. Yeah. I mean, my DVR is full of John Stewart right now. It's full of Jeopardy. It's full of Masters of Sex. It's full of, what else are we watching? I'm married now, I got married about five months ago. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Anybody who's listening, my beautiful wife is Nikki Grilles. We live together in New York and she's awesome. And we watch TV together. She's a big TV watcher. So obviously she gets a lot of input. I just started getting to Sons of Anarchy because everybody likes it and I just hadn't checked it out. The Walking Dead, I'm absolutely up to date on. Is there anything that your wife insists on watching that is like a marital compromise? No, because you know why it's not a compromise, because sometimes I'm not there and it gives her something to watch. Right. We're talking about scandal. We're talking about, she tried to do the new one by the same producer. How to get away with murder. Yeah, but then she gave up on it and she doesn't like Walking Dead. So we're like, you know, 80% overlap and then there's 20% that we each like in our own individual worlds and that's good. Right. Yeah. Yeah. If you were right on the same page, it would be probably. No, then she'd have to wait. If I'm at it, here I'm in Boston at a convention, she wouldn't be able to watch anything, but this way she can watch what I'm not. I know so many people who've had major relationship riffs because they've been watching a show and then like their partner watched the next episode without them and trying to hide it like more more as we get older, more than like cheating with a mistress. They're like, you watch the walking dead when I wasn't there and then you tried to pretend. The finale, the Breaking Bad finale. Yeah, you know, I, we can do that from time to time of survivor. I'm big into survivor love for years. I've always, because of the, because of the extreme traveling, I'm perfect for that show to tell you the story that you watched in other countries and you were traveling that connected with you. Yeah, I saw when I was traveling through Ireland, I saw, what was the one? I'm not going to remember the name, but I could describe it to you. It's a comedy show. It's a British show. What does it call? Father Ted. Oh, British show. It's a British show. There's a big fat guy that's funny who plays the only gay in town. Oh, yes. Little Brit. Little Brit. Yeah. Right. That guy. Yeah. Yeah. I watched, I, I binged on that when I was in Ireland because it was, it was raining all the time. The first time I ever saw, okay, Rowan Atkinson. Mr. Bean. No. Black Adder. Yep. First time I ever saw Black Adder, I was in New Zealand and I got turned on to that there. It's nice when you're in England and when you're somewhere far away to say, what are you listening to or what? Like I found out about Tricky and Portishead and stuff like that before we ever had it over here. I met some Londoners and they were like, oh, well, this is what we're listening to now. Right. You know, they told me and so in general, when I'm traveling, I like to try to eat with the locals or reading, listen to the music that they're listening to, do the activities that they're doing. I mean, if you're going to travel to 61 countries, obviously, there's no point in like staying in holiday ends and just eating hands all the same and going to drive the cave. And the whole point is to see what's out there, right? So, is there any country you haven't been to yet that you want to go to? They're the largest economic power country that I've never been to is Japan. Okay. And it's obviously a fascinating country for a while. I hadn't been to Spain, but I fixed that. Do you speak any other languages? I speak yes, no, up down. Where's the bathroom left, right? I'm home. Yeah. I love you. Hello. Goodbye. You know, in that order. Yeah. In like, hello. Hello. I love you. Goodbye. Yeah. In probably three or four languages or something like that. Just wherever I, I, I, I pressure enough and I try to be able to say it, you know, do you watch any of the travel shows? Because the rise of those in the last 10 to 15 years. I like Anthony Bourdain. Yeah. I like Anthony Bourdain. If it's a. And now here we're going to this place. Let's look at the fountains on this. No, I don't care about that. But Anthony Bourdain's got a gritty, interesting seeing it from grounds. I love all sort of the take on things you said you like to do when you go to a place. Right. And surprise. I like Anthony Bourdain. Yeah. That's not a shock. Yeah. Very New Yorkie and very traveling. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. It's gritty. I like them. Yeah. Yeah. See, Anthony Bourdain doesn't bump me out. Doesn't bump me up. Nobody's dying. And nobody's, you know, people are eating funky foods. I guess the animals are not doing so. That's true. There's a lot of animals that don't have testicles due to Anthony Bourdain's dress that would rocky that norsters. Yes. So, okay. What else? Anything? So when you, when you're up for any television series, because you do a lot of, nah, not really. You weren't really interested in it. No, it's not that. I was an actor. I was ready to do whatever they put me in. At one point, I remember, because I sang. I sang as a kid. Yep. At one point, they brought me out to LA and they gave me some songs to sing the ideas. Maybe they're going to make like a little pop kid. What would now be like a boy band? Right. Kid. Like, then it was Bobby Sherman and David Cassidy and they're like, maybe we'll make him into one of those. Right. Partridge family. Didn't happen. I don't know why. I just didn't get in front of the right people. That just didn't happen. No one ever want to put an album out with you. I sang in the background of a Peter Paul and Mary album, Paul Peter Paul and Mommy, and was in the background of like Puff the Magic Dragon. We're going to the zoo and I'm being swallowed by a bow constrictor and, you know, those cool Peter Paul and Mary songs. But did you ever have like a rival actor that was around your age that was always, you'd see it every audition and you'd see them in shows? Well, this is two of all actors. If you go to an audition, you start to see over and over again people that look and see in the same way that you do. You walk in and in my case there'd be, you know, a bunch of guys that are five, five and bald and 50. And or they might not be. If the thing asked for nerdy, you might find guys that are skinnier than me, but all of them would be wearing glasses, right? Maybe they wouldn't all be bald, but they'd all have that vibe about them. And the thing about commercial auditioning is you go to like 50 auditions for everything you book. Right. If you're on it, if you're doing good, you're still going to go to like 50 auditions. So yes, there's a community of people that is the community of actors that are represented by decent agents that are out there. And then there's a subset of people that you see over and over again, because they're like, you know, like, Oh, that guy's here. Oh, no. I don't know. It's just like, you know, that figures. Right, right, right. In the sense. Sure. There's a guy named Bob Buthe, who you probably wouldn't even know he is, but I see him still on TV in old episodes of the of the West Wing. There's a great show. West Wing was awesome. People don't like the newsroom as much. And I guess I don't like the newsroom as much. But you know what? I still get that Aaron Sorkin fix. And I'm okay with it. Some people get his dialogue is off putting to some people got to me. I want it. No, I'm the best. I'm a bantry. I'm not even letting you finish your questions and answering you. Yeah. And I hear that you're okay with it. If you were someone else, I would be slowing down and going slower. I'm trying to get a lot of information into the 12 minutes that you have to talk to me. Yeah, we're shoving it into their brains. And that's very Aaron Sorkin. Yeah, absolutely. Or alternatively, in like, you know how in any hall, yes, there's the Goyam Protestant family and they're all sitting very primly, please pass the blob, please pass. And then there's the Jewish family. Oh, and I'm talking about this in your uncle and Baba. But that was my upbringing. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's very East coast. That's very New York. I mean, Boston is different from New York, obviously, but even still, when I travel, it's shocking when people are if we're talking at fast pace or overlapping, it's not aggressive or rude to us. But some people get very off put by that when you travel around the country or internationally. And and I try to sense that when I'm if I'm in someone and I can feel that they're just like, it's too much. I dial it back. I mean, another thing about traveling, by the way, is you have to be able to be a little bit chameleon-like. If you're traveling in style, you have to be able to tourist. And as I'm saying it, I'm feeling myself get a little bit more reserved and measured the way that I'm now communicating. But if I'm hanging out with people, and it's just like a street situation, and they're getting stoned and then it's you become now, I'm a little bit more New York-y. That's a good idea, too. I mean, you're essentially doing a role in a lot of ways. Yes. So two more questions for you. Yes. One, is there a show that you felt captured New York the way that you think of New York? Is there a quintessential New York television city? See, I would think more movies. You know, honestly, the first first of all, I got to get the movie stuff out of my brain. I'm not going to be able to answer your question. Woody Allen. Yep. Martin Scorsese. Let me see what else is seriously New York. New York. One thing that comes up all the time, and I don't know if I necessarily agree with it, but a lot of people say this on the show. Well, Seinfeld is the New York show. That is, for TV, it just hit my brain as you were starting to say Seinfeld. I grew up where he supposedly is. On the upper one side of Manhattan, I still live there. I moved out to L.A. for 20 years, but yes. In terms of the cadence and the attitude of New York from, in terms of humor, yes, that is unusual. I mean, Friends is trying to be, but it's so L.A. It's shot in L.A. And when you said Barney Miller, that's more like the Friends thing. Okay. See, Barney Miller, to me, is a gritty show that takes place in a dirty one room compared to what L.A. That's the greediest thing that ever happened on Barney Miller. There was some crimes, but there was a-- Oh, really? Yeah, all right. There was a quarantine. But I mean, were they referred to? Obviously, you're never going to show it, but I mean, was there consequences? There was, and I think that show, for me growing up, at least, was a show that was a comedy, but had a sort of gallows humor that you didn't get in a lot of the other, maybe the lighter things. And all in the family had that as well, but-- Yeah. Mash, I think, it started to deal with real issues and real emotions and that kind of stuff. It was a tricky road for them to navigate because they weren't on HBO. They were on CBS. And so, yeah, the censors were watching, and John Q. Public, and the people who are more puritanical are watching, and you got to, you know, you had to deal with issues and consequences, but you couldn't be offensive or shocking. Do shocking. It'd be a little shocking. Little shocking is good because more people watch too much shopping and now it's off-putting. Right. And you had to be, I think, the major difference between television now and then, and I think a lot of people write offs, a lot of '70s TV and through-camera sitcoms and things like that, sometimes without really understanding their context, is that you had to produce a show for the entirety of the United States in order for it to be on. Yes. And you don't have to do that now where things like HBO and AMC, you can survive on a much smaller audience. And even the biggest network television show now would be not even in the top 100 in the '70s, numbers-wise. Two things about that to make you to agree with your point. Not only can you divide it between HBO and other, it might be the housing channel. It might be the food channel. You can cater specifically to specialized areas and you're probably going to be okay, so long as it looks delicious. The food people are going to be happy, they're not going to care quite so much if it's right. That's the first thing. But the other thing I would say is that, yes, I am sensitive to the fact that that made it more difficult for them, that they had to play to a broader audience that wasn't necessarily me. And I'm sorry for them about that. But that doesn't mean that I have to give many time to watching something that I feel is playing to a denominator that is not me. There's not enough of it in there for you. If they're being too obvious with their humor or too, you know, in my face or I'm just not being surprised by the plot twists or by the, I sound like a snob, but like the level of intercourse. If you know where they lost me. I don't care or whether. I'm sorry that they, great, they should go make lots of money from the people and that's what they want to see that want obvious comedy. It just isn't me. Did you go to a lot of theater when you were a kid? A lot of theater. Because you could just probably show up on days when, and I did actually when I was on Broadway, I could go across, you know what I did a lot of was second acting. You know what second acting is? Is that, no, second acting is something people don't do as much anymore. But the Broadway show is generally speaking have an intermission in the middle. Right. And so you give your ticket when you go in and then during the intermission the whole audience comes out and they smoke cigarettes and I discuss how, whether or not they liked it and so forth. So what you could do is you could sort of saddle on into the crowd and then just sort of filter in back into the show with that you never had a ticket. Right. And then find a seat that maybe somebody didn't like the show and they left halfway through. It was empty in the first place and they don't necessarily check everybody's tickets to the second act because people lose them. And who's going to want to see how to show? But here I am in the Rothschilds. It was a show where in the first act they had the kids be kids right in the second act actually Chris Sarandon. Yes, from played in the second act. He played Jacob Rothschild in the second act. So it was Paris them and as Jacob Rothschild in the first act. And Chris Sarandon who I saw recently for the first time in a long, long time. Yeah. Very nice guy. So you weren't in the second act. But I had to do the curtain call at the end of the second act. So you had to hang around even though you were doing it. So what did I do? I went over to Pippin and I went over to 1776 and I went over to the me nobody knows and saw Gene Carlos Esposito as a 15 year old. That's an education that you couldn't. I mean no one has that. But only the second act. Yeah. But yeah, I saw also shows other shows. I was in New York. I was this is what I was doing. It doesn't make so much so good culture. Yeah, you're not going to sit at home and watch TV when you can walk down the street and see the second act of these amazing Broadway shows. So yeah, we're both. You do both. You know, you go to museums, you see the ballet. My dad was with American Ballet Theatre for many years. So I saw a whole bunch of ballets and now my wife actually casts Broadway and off Broadway shows. Oh, cool. So you can still go see how the she gets come sometimes. So we get to go to see Broadway shows. You can see the first and second act. I get to see the first act. Exactly. I get to see the setup, not just the payoff. Finally, yes. Just talk about Willy Wonka a little bit here. Okay. The character that you play in that movie is sort of the extreme example of people's sort of 1960s, 1980s negative reaction of what television could do to kids. Right. It rots your brain. Right. It was the cautionary tale. Yes. And it sounds like to a degree, you probably agree with that sort of mentality? No. Do I agree the television rots your brain? I think that bad television rots your brain and good television encourages your brain and makes you a smarter guy. When you were playing that role in the movie, were you kind of sympathetic to the point of view or were you kind of just... Well, I was 11. I wasn't thinking... I mean, all right. Hang on. So one thing I will say as an 11-year-old, because I started acting when I was six, I was actually trying to approach it as an acting gig. I was talking to the director about how I felt about what was going on around me and what I wanted. You know, objectives. I don't know how many of these actors from actor shows you've watched, but you probably talked to actors a lot. But you know, there's objectives and obstacles and things that you want and ways to get them and character work and that kind of stuff. And I was actually speaking that language as an 11-year-old, which they're probably appreciated. And by the way, I looked 9 even though I was 11. So they play a role. Right. That's what they do. I'm theoretically easier to manage as an 11-year-old than the 9-year-old that they would, but not in my case. You can reason with an 11-year-old boy. That logic fell to pieces, I think, because I was actually very rambunctious. So I was actually trying to be an actor. I don't know that I was necessarily examining American culture and whether or not TV actually rotted your brain. I think that I probably would have said to you that the 1970 Paris would have said, "Rotted your brain, what are you talking about? So long as it's fun, I don't care." Right. Right. Which is probably what everyone in 1970 felt about everything. Yeah. Yeah. And probably what I felt like through, you know, until at least I was, you know, 18 or maybe even 25. And then I felt that way again when I was probably 45 to 55 or 52. And I go through periods of time where I feel like whatever works for you is fine. Yeah. And the thing is that that works great until you have to retire. Right. And you've lived in the moment for your entire life. You do have to do some sort of balancing between making sure that you in a very Eckhart Tolle, the power of now, kind of way, experience every moment now. But that doesn't mean that you don't give some planning. You got to do a little planning. Right. You got to do it. Unfortunately. And I guess what you need to do then is live now in the moment of your planning. Right. Exactly. Plan to be able to live in the moment. Plan to be able to live in the moment. But I'm saying when you're doing that planning, live in the moment. Right. Exactly. As you plan. Enjoy the planning. Enjoy and experience the planning. Yes. Well, thank you so much for talking to me about my television news. About many things, very few of Willy Wonka. Yes. But we got a lot of TV talk in there. We did. Yeah. Probably. Do you get sick of talking to Willy Wonka? I would rather talk about most things than Willy Wonka. I've got to say. Yeah. And the thing is that what elevates me to the point of being interesting enough that people want to hear what I have to say in the first place is Willy Wonka. Absolutely. And therefore, I am generally speaking someone that's like, you're going to interview me. We're going to talk about Willy Wonka. Yeah. You gave me an out because the format of your thing is to talk about TV. Exactly. So I take it. Sometimes when I'm at my table at a convention and people are asking me Willy Wonka questions, I will consciously ask them about themselves to defuse it. I met the oddities people downstairs. Yeah. Right. The TV show oddities on the science channel, which I like very much. And they were really cool. I really had a really interesting conversation with them. But in the beginning, it was a bit of a dance because I wanted to talk about oddities. They wanted to talk about Willy Wonka. We did. We traded. We totally traded. It was like tit for tat. You ask a couple. You ask a couple. And then eventually we're able to just put it all aside and we're going to have a conversation about whatever. But I certainly don't. Willy Wonka is an awesome, amazing project. And I was very lucky to have been involved with it. If I was talking to somebody, and in fact, I did talk to Lea who played on Deadwood, right? I asked her about that experience. I tried to be respectful because I know how it feels from the other side. So I get it. It's not that I don't get it. It's awesome. I was lucky to be there. But if you're going to ask me which one I'd rather talk about, sure. You can only say the same thing so many times. And people that you answered the questions million times, they've only heard the answer no time. They've heard it exactly. So first of all, when somebody comes up to my table, they've never heard it. It's the first time for them. And so therefore, if I'm going to sit there with a sign and been in front of me and behind me saying, here's my TV. Come talk to me. I'd better be. And some of the people that are conventions, frankly, do not have this attitude. I'd better be ready to answer your questions. I do so as joyfully as I can. And try to really, by the way, make it seem as if it's the first time. And that's still acting? That is absolutely an acting exercise. Because if you're on Broadway every night, you're saying the same lines every time. And it is your job, again, to make it seem as if it was for the first time. Not so much with TV, not so much with movies, not so much with commercials. But in theater, that is absolutely a thing. You have to be able to play the whole arc and make it seem like it's for the first time. And that's again about being in the moment. Right. So in many ways, you had training for this. Yes. But I got to tell you, if you do enough conventions and if you repeat yourself often enough, it will try the patience of even the most technical actor. Yeah. And you can't even vary the answers because you're like, "But that's the answer." But that's the answer. Well, that is. Well, no. But then how do you say the answer? How do you couch it? What's the context? What's the idea leading it in? There are things that you can do. But that's the way, but you end up playing that game, right into playing that game. Well, thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you. There you go. That was Paris, them, and Mike TV himself live in Wilmington, Massachusetts last month at the Northeast Comic Con. They're doing another one of those in June. So I highly recommend you buy some tickets if you're in the area. That's always a fun, fun time. Gary Summers with the Antiques Roadshow sets that one up. I will probably be there. You can see me wandering the halls. I don't. Conventions are very weird for me now. I grew up going to them my entire life, more or less, decades and decades. And with the cosplay and the fact that there are women there and the celebrity autograph things, it's all very, very new to me. And I feel a little bit uncomfortable. But by the second day of that convention, I was feeling a little bit better. But it's always a weird mixed feeling for me. And I don't know if it is for you as well. But if it is, let me know. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts if you've been going to these conventions for years and years. So you can email me at Canadaicandread.com or tvguidenscounselor.com. Find us on Twitter, Facebook. We're easy to find. I don't know why I say we. There's just one of me. But we sounds better. I guess they're royal we. Anyway, that's Friday's episode. It's a special live one. And again, thank you guys for coming out to the Riot LA live edition. And we will see you again Wednesday for an all new episode of TV guidance counselor. Spanish Inquisition, Dorkamada, all of that.
