TV Guidance Counselor
TV Guidance Counselor Episode 44: Wendel Meldrum
You have a TV? No. I just like to read the TV guide. Read the TV guide. You don't need a TV guide. ♪ Download this planet ♪ ♪ Download this planet ♪ ♪ Download this planet ♪ ♪ Ah ♪ ♪ Happy Wednesday, everybody. It's Ken Reed here with an all-new episode of TV Guidance Counselor. I'm very excited for this week's episode. My guest is author and actress Wendell Maldrum. She is the author of the book, What is a Woman? Because it's absurd to be one on Planet Earth, which you should go to a fine bookseller right now and purchase before you even listen to the episode, because you will just do it anyway at the end. But she is also an actress, probably best known to my listeners as playing Miss White on the Wonder Years, the newly finally released on DVD Wonder Years, which if you don't have that box set, also purchase that, this is an expensive episode for you. And she also most notably played the low-talking fashion designer of the Puffy shirt on Seinfeld, and in a historic TV Guidance Counselor first, she is my first Canadian guest. So we get into some good Canadian talk in this episode. She is incredibly nice, very fascinating person. Her life story is amazing to me, and I think to you as well. Very nice, very funny, very smart. This is a great episode. You will enjoy it. So here is this week's episode of TV Guidance Counselor with my guest, Wendell Malcolm. (upbeat music) Is this Wendell middle drum, hello? - Thank you for having me, guys. - Oh, thank you so much for taking the time to do it. It's a huge honor to talk to you. I'm a big fan of so many of the things that you've done over the years, so it's great to talk to you. Made it here in the Hollywood Hills, and we're just discussing how windy and strange it is to find anything here, pre-GPS. I don't know how people did it. - Well, they didn't. They got lost and wrote a song. - That's true, that's true, or just settled there. - Yeah, that's right. - Or like, this is where we'll build our home. - And they're still here. - Yes, 40 years, 'cause I couldn't find the house drive. - I couldn't find the way out. - So you grew up in Canada, right? - Yeah, I'm Canadian. - So that is very different weather-wise, I don't imagine. - Yeah, and I'm from the frozen north. - Yes. - So it's really... - 'Cause I have a real issue here whenever I'm driving through the hills, or anywhere actually here where there's very steep hills where I'm like, this is really nice, but I would not wanna be here in the winter, and then I have to remind myself that there's no winter. - Wait a minute, no winter. - Yes. - Well, there isn't winter, and when you leave here for a long time, you can, the subtle, subtle shifts and differences. - Right. - Some of the leaves fall off, some of the trees. - It's like fall for five minutes. - Yeah, it's not quite as green. - Right, right. - You gotta breathe. We get terrible winds up here. - This is... - Oh, 'cause you're up so high. - Yeah. - Yeah. - So it must get a little bit cooler, but I imagine that when you first moved here, it was difficult to adjust that there was actually no winter. - I came here out of New York, and it was just, it's hard for you to remember things, because you realize that being a seasonal person, I remember things, "Oh, right, that was the winter," - Right, that was the last winter. - And you just go back into your brain, you go, "It was all the same." - Yes, it's all the same, the whole year. - I don't know when that happened, because it's all the same. - So, "Frozen North," that's... I've weirdly never been to Canada. I always, driving up there, I will make it to Montreal Festival, eventually, or Toronto. But where, where about some Canada did you grow? - Edmonton, Alberta. - Alberta. - Edmonton, where? - So, no. - Season three of "SCTV" was... - That's right. - The only thing you know about Edmonton. - That's a very good thing to know. - It is, "SCTV" is one of my all-time favorite comedy shows. What if, James, was that very popular in Canada when you were growing up, or was it still sort of a cult show? - Still a cult show. - Okay. - Yeah. - Did you watch it? - I didn't. You know, here's the thing, I didn't watch much TV. - Okay. - Isn't that funny? Because I, we didn't have TV, and then we were extremely restricted. - Your parents were very, very strict about what you watch? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - So, what, in time or content? - Like half an hour a day. - So, it was time. - Yes, and content. They didn't want us to watch anything violent. - Okay, so nothing American. - Right, nothing American. And Canadian is basically watching, you know, the CBC Symphony or something. - Right, or like something about the woodshop. - Yeah, I know, but you know, it didn't harm me, but I longed for it. - Right, right. - And, you know, if I couldn't sleep, I'd sometimes sneak down the hall and watch some things on there. - That my dad had no headphones, dude. Back then. - Oh, so you said to get right up to the speaker. - And watch what my dad was watching, like "Man from uncle" or something. - Okay. - Or, we could watch Bonanza. - 'Cause your dad probably wanted to watch it, so it was okay. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Which is the common show. - Well, no, because I was peaking in on the corner. - Oh, okay, so they never conquered it. - Yeah, it was ridiculous. - Are you an only child? Would you have siblings? - No, two sisters. - Okay. - So if the three of us. - And were you the only one who went into acting? - Yes. - So you're very restricted television viewing, so it's almost like a forbidden fruit kind of thing. So how did you sort of get into performance at that point? - Well, I got in through, I was a dancer. - Okay. - And through the theater. - Okay. - And I went after high school, I went out to Toronto to dance at Toronto Dance Theater, and I started, someone saw me on the street, it was one of those things, and I was, and I, yeah, my friend was like, who's that, she'd be perfect for this part? And so I wanna ask my friend's friend, I'll hook you up, and I got a call from a director, and I am. - So it's almost like a classic Hollywood story, although in Toronto. - Only it happened in Toronto, which is not very thrilling, but then the director called me up, and I went in and auditioned. - And that was for a stage? - Yeah. - For a stage thing. It was tight as Adronica's done as a spaghetti western. - Oh, back to Bonanza. - Yeah. - Had you ever thought of doing acting before? You were just like, I just doing dancing. - No, I had been, I'd been to the Bamps School. - Okay. - And I had taken drama, and I'd done choreography. - Okay. - Because I had studied choreography in the time I was 13, so I was working in- - So that was a career path, definitely. - Yeah, and it's kind of intrinsically linked at that point. - Yeah, but I had a crappy voice. I had speech impediments. - Oh, really? - Yeah, so when I was doing the theatre, 'cause our company would get hired to do the theatre when I was about 16, and they'd give me some lines, and they couldn't understand it, 'cause I had a sibling dance, and I have these three speech impediments, so I had to study two years with a woman in New York to be able to- - It's too speech therapy. - To be understood. - I know, right? - Very, very straight. So they were just like, how are you just dance? - Well, I think I've got so frustrated, 'cause I couldn't hear it. I was 16, you know, and I really didn't have much awareness, and I couldn't hear that I couldn't say roots. - And so to you, it sounded right, and you had just like, no, no people- - I couldn't, I just didn't have the mechanism of self-referentialists, or whatever that's called. - So how did you get down to New York to start trying to fix that? - I just went. I went with a guy, you know, and- - Should I just go for it and go down there? - Yeah, and I sort of left dance behind, 'cause I'd been doing the theatre, and I went down there with a guy, and we ended up getting married as very young. - Okay, American guy? - Yeah, didn't last, a guy named Des Machina, who was a, now he, of course, he's a big Broadway director and stuff. And we're still friends, but it just, it was a bit of a disaster, a huge disaster. Sadly, sadly, too young, I think. - But it got you down to New York. - Yeah, and then I came out, then I remember, I had to go back to Waitressing, or something, it was a really slow summer. And I went back, and I said, what am I doing? And I went, I said, I'm gonna go to bed until something happens to show me what I'm supposed to be doing. And I went to bed in the middle of the day, it was like about three o'clock, and I just said, I'm gonna stay here, and this is it. And then about 20 minutes later, the phone rang, and I, hello? - Dolly, this is Joan Scott, it's your age, you're down to Los Angeles, you must come out. And I went, wow, because you can't- - Yeah. - You ask a question, you get an answer like that, it's like 20 minutes later, it comes away. - I can't ignore that, that's the perfect time. - It was sort of like, you know, then you, can I really ask, that's not the answer I wanted. - Right. - So I went, I went out to Los Angeles, and I had a job within like five days, and I just kept on working. - So you, had you been to the States before you actually moved down there? - Like, is it a kid? - Yeah, or even just growing up or- - Yeah, I'd been to New York, I'm a teenager, and yeah, and I've been to Seattle, and- - So it wasn't a total shock to kind of come down, even though Edmonton's pretty far away from everything. - Yeah. - In the middle of nowhere, essentially. - And very provincial. - I've been to New York about two times, and I absolutely fell madly in love with it, the madness of it. - Was there any shows that you were able to sneak as a kid that were modern depictions of America, aside from Bonanza, we were like, it's probably like the Bonanza down there. - Well, what would there have been? It's probably like Bonanza. Well, there was sort of, what are the, well, the Twilight Zone, I remember, but- - Right, which is fairly accurate. - But yeah, that's really so I thought it was, you know, but there was awe, it was sort of the time of cop shows. - Right, like data check in. - So yes. - Yeah. - Rhyme size, manics. - Yeah. - Y50. So you think that, you know, New York is gonna be- - Crime readers. - Like crime written, and you go, you know, what are these crime mothers and children doing out on the streets? - Right. - It's so dangerous. - But this is probably the early 80s, we're sitting down there, and it was fairly dangerous down there at a lot. It was still the old New York, very different from now. - Yeah. - But definitely not what's depicted on television, I would imagine. I mean, I would always grow up in Boston, we're only, you know, three and a half, four hours from New York. And I would always be wary of going down there because to me, New York was like the Warriors, and like, escape from New York. - Yeah, that's right. - It's like, it probably exactly- - Right? - Yeah. - And it's not quite that way, but that's- - No, but that's what you think, and I used to watch C.S. De Cinema, which was on at one o'clock every day. - Okay, B.A.M., P.M.? - P.M.? - In the afternoon. - Oh, in the afternoon, yeah. - When you're sick, you get to watch C.S. De Cinema. - Right. - So you would just watch a movie, and I saw some really horrible, like I saw "Touch of Evil" on the TV, and that was like the most horrifying thing for a 10-year-old to see. - Oh yeah, I mean, a big, bad or something else is terrifying for everybody. - Yeah, yeah, and as a young child, so I saw a lot of movies through the TV. - Mm-hmm. - You know what a noir or stuff. - Yeah. - And they're blocking wide stuff. It's interesting too, 'cause I, when I talk to younger people who don't have that sort of exposure to classic movies or classic television, because the way the world is now is you have access to everything, but you don't stumble upon things as much anymore, because it's just not on. You have to know what you're looking for. - Yeah, well, there's so much content. - Yeah, it's too much. Like you don't, all the things that I love, I stumbled upon on television. So things like an afternoon movie that I'm just homesick, and who is this thing, and we're just fell in love with it. And I don't know if it's as easy for people to do that now, but it's all there if they just know how to find it. - Right, it's history. It hasn't really been organized yet. - Right, right. - The history of our culture. - Right. - Remember my niece telling me that she said she felt so robbed by watching sitcoms growing up, because she always thought that life was going to have a fix or a solve for an happy ending. So that kind of storytelling, maybe to people can really affect-- - Oh, absolutely. - Their expectations and bring a lot of sort of depression and it's supposed to, where's the wrap up? - Yeah. - You know, where's the nice solve? - Yeah, this is not like-- - It's just going on and on, it's bullshit. I want it to start. - There's only 24 of these incidents a year, huh? Normally, right, that's what's the word? So were there any Canadian sitcoms that you watch, like King of Kensington, or-- - So you know, my father-in-law produced King of Kensington. - Oh, you really? - Not that father-in-law. I got married a couple of times after that. But he, yeah, Jack Humphrey produced King of Kensington. - 'Cause that's the, to me, that's the biggest Canadian show that I know of. I don't know how popular it was in Canada, but it's the only one-- - It was very popular. - Okay. 'Cause we would get some Canadian channels in Boston if I had, you know, the Italian right way. So that was very popular, yeah. - Well, did you get any of the, 'cause we have a national film board and they have very famous for documentaries? - We would get some of those on PBS. For the most part, the stuff we got was, I believe, from sort of Eastern Canada, and it was stuff that Nickelodeon would air, 'cause they would buy a lot of British and Canadian shows, 'cause they were very cheap for them. So we would get a lot of sort of 70 shows to grassy. - Oh, yeah, of course. - That was huge. - Yeah, of course. - Yeah, that was huge. That was probably the biggest-- - It's still huge. - It still is, yeah. - Dude, it's still huge. - It is, and that's an amazing revitalization where they've managed to have a continuation series years later that's more successful than Dallas tried to do it. And it did quite, it as well as to grassy and all these things. And that girl meets world, which they're trying to do, which doesn't quite hit as well as to grassy, but yeah, that show is probably bigger now than it was when I was-- - I think so, and Baywatch. - Yes, absolutely. - You know, all those like corn, and the hitchhiker. - Yeah, oh, the hitchhiker with the sweatshirt. - Right, yeah. - I loved the hitchhiker. - Yeah, it's like quite a classic little lumber. - Oh, yeah, absolutely. I watch the hitchhiker every week here, and I hadn't really figured out accents yet. - Oh, wow. - And so, I didn't get that all these shows are Canadian, but I was like, they all speak the same, and I don't know why. - And what is that? I'm hearing. - Yes, I don't understand. It's very sure. And whenever I'd hear someone with a Boston accent on TV, I didn't realize it was a Boston accent. It would always usually be on a court show, like People's Court. - Yeah. - And I'd be like, they talk like real people. I don't understand what the difference is. But yeah, Canada was sort of this, I didn't realize how much Canadian content I was being exposed to as a kid, 'cause I just didn't know it was from Canada. - That's shocking. - And we didn't think we were crossing the board. - Oh, a lot of it. A show called Owl TV came over, an S and TV of course, which was-- - And what about Kids in the Hall? - Kids in the Hall, absolutely. Actually, Kevin McDonald lives in Edmonton now. - Oh, you're showing us in Winnipeg. - Oh, Winnipeg, that's right. - That's right. - Yes. - And every city lives in a-- - Yes, because I did a show for four years. I was a lead on a series with Mark McKinney. - Oh, yes. - The fabulous incredible Mark McKinney was our show runner. He had a show called Less Than Kind of at Winnipeg. - Yes, yes. - And Mark McKinney is absolutely an incredible talent to work with. - Oh, I can imagine. Yeah, he just seems like one of those people that's kind of working on a different level from everyone. - Yeah. - It's like he's two steps ahead of everybody. - And he understands story and he understands dramedy, you know? - Right. - But when you base it in reality and humanity, and then the comedy comes out of that and it was really fun to work with him. - So most of the stuff you've done is comedy. - No, I've done actually done quite a lot of drama. - I think the maybe just the stuff that like me or my listeners know is going to be more quality stuff or I was thinking of it as being a debt debt comedic stuff. Because it was the first television spot. Guess what you got on Pinky Brewster? - Oh God, yeah. - Okay. And you were a teacher in that, right, weren't you? - No, I was a recording engineer. I was in a recording studio that Andy Gibb was the guy and I was his receptionist or something. - Right, right. So you got to meet Andy Gibb. Andy Gibb, who at the time, you know, he died shortly after. - Yeah. - And he was so lovely, but his parents came everywhere with him. - Really? - Yeah, because he was having some struggles with some drugs and stuff. - Oh, I got you. So they were kind of keeping him shut. - Which eventually is what took his life. - Right. - And his parents were there and it was sweet. You know, you could see that. - They really were worried and trying to keep it. - They were really, yeah. And it was a tragic. Although, Punky Brewster was a charming little show. - Yeah, it was a strange little tragedy. - Yeah. - Yeah. - It was an odd concept when I look back of an abandoned orphan being raised by an old man in a ten-year building. - Yeah, tell us how. - For a lot of children's comedy. What the first gig you got out here in LA? - No, the first gig I got was actually a short film, a European film that some guys were doing a lot of instantly when I came out here. And then I-- - Was that the call that Eurasian had said come out? - No, she just had come out kind of more for piloting stuff and then I did do a pilot, which I no longer remember, but I think Tony Scott was the director. - Oh, really? - Yeah. - Was that like an action series? - No, it wasn't. It was, you know, I hardly remember. So long ago, it was more like a student's kind of thing and a pilot, nothing happened with it. And then I just kept working. - You just kind of stayed. - You know, I did a series called Pursuit of Happiness. Paul Provenza. - Right. - Which was a great show. It was about half a season, I think it was on me. - I think we did 13. It was half a season then, because they usually did 22. - So it was NBC. - And Paul's great. - Yeah, he was a guy that NBC just kept putting and trying to get him into a thing. Pursuit of Happiness was this first series that was-- - Michael Whitehorn produced that, who went on to do all sorts of things. King of Queens and all sorts of things. - That was your first regular series? Are you already on the knots landing? - I was a regular on knots landing, which-- - That was a huge show. - Huge show, yeah. I didn't, you know, and I did it. And then when a couple of months later, the first episode aired and my mother was visiting me and I didn't even have a TV. - Really? So moving on here with no television. - Yeah, and I said, yeah, it's on tonight. And I said, we're gonna go get you a TV so you can see your work. - So Steve took you out and bought you a television to watch yourself and not something. - For the first time, yeah, 'cause I didn't have a TV. Was that the first time you actually watched yourself in something? - Probably, yeah. - How weird was that? Was it strange? - You know, it wasn't because I feel I have a good sense of what happens there. - Right. - You know, and it was, I don't know. I don't like to watch myself, it's like once I've done it, it's like, I have a really good sense memory of what I've done, like physically, what it feels like to do it. So you kind of don't need to revisit it, you kind of like, it's already there. - But I did have my first screen kiss there. - Oh, and that's winning? - Was Doug Sheehan. And I remember we were about to go into goal time, which is after 12 hours, and they did not wanna do it. - Right, gotta do those union costs. - Yeah, and we had to do a kiss, it was this big, long scene. They wanna do it in one, and we go, let's do this. - Right. - And it's like, we're gonna get one take, and that's it. And so, okay, let's block it out very roughly, let's go. We were at like five fucking minutes. So, I-- - Maybe that was better, you had less time to kind of-- - Well, you'd be here. And so, I went down, he was lying in bed, and I'd go in, and I'd sit down on the bed, and then we went to kit, we both kissed in the same direction, like we'd never kissed people, we were supposed to be lovers. - How does this work? - And then I, he had his shirt off, and I went down, and I sort of had my arms, my chin on my hands laying on his chest, and we're having this kind of really soft, sweet romantic talk. And I went, and I kissed my hand. I went to kiss his chest, and I kind of realized, oh fuck, I kissed my hand. - My own hand. - My own hand, like in a really loving way. - Yeah. - I love myself. - Like a kind of a lovey, sexy way, I kissed. And it was like, okay, and then it was like, cut, let's go, we're out of here, got it. - So, that's the take that they use. - So, there is, they only did one take, and so, my first scream kiss was-- - It's your own hand. - My own hand. - So, but that's like, maybe that's just a character thing. She's kind of a weirdo, that's really in love with herself. - Yeah, and that, her demise happened shortly after that. - You were killed on the show, was that what happened? - You know, I honestly don't remember. - That show was enormous. I mean, that show was a phenomenon, and the resurgence of sort of the nighttime soaps here, in the '80s, Rio Dallas and Nats Landing, and the Colby's, and imagine you probably got recognized from that show. Was that the first thing that people recognized you from? - Yeah, I think so. You know, I don't have much of a recollection. I was really busy then, I did a play here, and I don't really have memories of being-- - Do you prefer to do stage work? - No, I love to, I love to work with the camera. You know, I think any actor just wants to do good work. You have to really care what it is, whether it could be a webisode. You know, you wanna really be connected creatively, you wanna be able to bring a stretch, and you know, that kind of thing. - Right, is there anything that you did that you do enjoy watching, and you can kind of lose yourself in, and kind of forget that you're in it? Was there a show that you're into that you were on? - No. - Yeah, I find that that tends to be the case, 'cause there, and I almost feel bad, because there are shows that I absolutely love that people have been on, and I'm like, oh, you can't watch this, and enjoy it the same way. Like, The Wonder Years, for example, which probably listeners of the show, probably most of my listeners know you from The Wonder Years, which thankfully, finally is coming out on DVD. - I know, with all the original score, I did not know that it had never been shown with the original score. - Yes, it was very, very difficult to get the rights to all those songs, but which was one of the huge keys to the success of that show. - The key to how it showed how music changed families right to the core. - Absolutely. - It's so beautiful, because, you know, I've been doing interviews for it, and so they sent me some copies, and it's such a fantastic show. - It really is, and it was unlike anything that had been on up to that point, to that level. We had a few shows that were sort of the dramaties about young people. There were circle jeans at 15 in the late '70s, early '80s that sort of had a similar feel, and a few things that had sort of pieces of it, but that show managed to really capture a time by also being timeless. So, like, I would watch that with my dad, which was unusual to watch shows my dad, aside from sort of bonanza-like shows, because it was set in the same exact time he was the same age as Kevin Allen. So, he was like, "That's exactly like that," but I'm watching it, you know, being that actual age, and it didn't seem old-fashioned, and it still was relevant and contemporary, and I think that to work on those two levels is nearly impossible to pull off, so that's why it seems to last, and you are a recurrent role in that show. You're probably about 12 episodes, maybe 10 episodes. - Yeah, sure. - That's white. - Yeah, that's white, yeah, and I got married, and I became Mrs. Heimer. - Yes, which was devastating for Kevin Allen too. - It was very sweet. - And imagine that it was shot more like a film than, say, "Pursitive Happiness," which was a three-camera scene. - Yeah, yeah, I mean, it was shot like a film, and that was, you know, that was one of those little things where I got the job offer, because I was doing "Pursitive Happiness," and they said, "Well, it'll be great," and a lot of the teachers were kind of caricatures, so I had to stick behind in this sort of color block. - Right. - Outfit, and I was this real earnest English teacher, and then after it was supposed to be just a couple of episodes, and then they decided to soften her up and sort of, you know, put her in more the cashmere sweater and a little softer beehive, and turn her into this sort of crush that everyone gets a crush. - Oh, yeah, absolutely, I mean-- - And women and everybody across the board. - Yeah, and a teacher's usually the first one, because that's like the first adult that's not your parent that you interact with on a regular basis. - The cares for you. - Exactly, that should be some attention, and as your well-being in the moment. - Yeah. - And so that role probably resonates the most, I would imagine, with people when they come up to your talk to you when they've seen you. - Yeah, that and the puppy shirt. - Yes, yes, that's the other thing where it's, that's probably those two things are why I associate you with comedic roles. - Yes. - Because the, you were, was it the low talker who designed the puppy? - The low talker. - The pirate shirt. - You know, it was funny, on Twitter the other day, I got a, there was a tweet that had my name in it, and it was, you know, the Bakersfield Condors doing a puffy shirt night. Wouldn't it be great if Wendell Mildrum could show up? And I, I went, I tweeted back, intrigued. - Yeah. - And they went, you know, send me your email. Now, in Bakersfield, there is, it's a farm team, it's a hockey team. - Right. - And they are doing, this is, so many years later, they're doing all of their jerseys to make them look like puffy shirts, and they're doing a big charity night, and on the back of the jerseys, they have names of the characters. - Right, right. - And, and he said, "Would you be interested in coming up?" And he said, "We are the farm team for the Edmonton Oilers, "which is my hometown." - How oddly appropriate-- - Is that adorable? - That goes all the way around to-- - Isn't that adorable? - Sorry, imagine you're going. - I'm going, if I'm not working. And so this, it's wonderful that, that it's so sweet, little thing, 'cause my dad was a hockey player. - Right, but yeah, it's Canada. - Yeah, no, he was a hockey player. - Oh, really? What did he do? - He played here, he played for the Los Angeles Monarchs. He played, you know, he played on the road for 10 years. - Oh, wow. - So hockey in my family, right? And then this team was from Edmonton, and it was like this puffy shirt that was like, "Wow." - That's the call from LA. That's the sign it's going to be answering the question that you put out there. That's hilarious. So, would you, so your dad was he on the road a lot when he was playing hockey? - Well, he was on the road from '17 to '27, and then he had kids after that. - All right, so he wasn't actively playing while you guys were around. - No. - I got ya. Did you ever see him play? - No, I never saw him. He was very shy about that. - Really? - He was a shy guy, even though he was a super jock. They called him Gabby, was his nickname because he, or the flying hairpin, 'cause he was incredibly skinny, and he was shy. - Okay, that's interesting. So he would have been on television playing games. - I don't know if they, I honestly don't know if they televised in them back then. - Interesting. So, what did your mom do? - My mother was, here is something, my mother was sort of a volunteer extraordinaire. She was the first woman president of the Emondic community leagues, and she developed something called power skating, which changed how hockey was done. - Okay, she was a very hockey family. - Yeah, well, she was a figure skater. - Okay. - But she decided, she would watch these little hockey guys, and she'd go, they're all leaning on their sticks. I can teach these guys to skate. They're terrible. - Right, they need their proper form. - Yeah, and she went to the crappiest team, 'cause nobody, I remember her standing in the hallway saying, I have a problem with this team for you, my dad would say, none of those coaches are gonna have coaches are gonna have any of you to do with any figure skating. And they would argue, she goes, I know this is, I'm gonna, so she persisted, got the crappiest team, and of course she took them twice a week. They ended up winning the thing, and no sticks, no nothing. They were just laid out on that ice at the end after she put them through this program that she developed. And then she developed it in five tiers, and then the Russians, who were not winning over the Canadians at the time, but they were training there. So all my mom, training these teenagers with cones and with skills. - This is an interesting technique she's done. - And they went up to her with her translator, and they said, they wanna know what you're doing. And she said, well, bring them over, and she put the coaches through a class, and showed them all the different edges, and the different skills for strengthening and agility. And they went back with their team, 'cause they played their game. And two years later, their technique was amazing. - She's single-handedly thawing the Cold War with her skating. - Yeah, right, yeah. - That's amazing. That whole plot you've described is like a romantic comedy into a Disney movie. - Yeah, it is very much. - A private, scrappy team using figure skating. - I know, it's a great story. - So did you use the skate a lot as well? Were you very, 'cause you were a dancer, did you wanna go on skates? - Oh yeah, I grew up on skates. - So why didn't you pursue sort of a figure skating, or? - Well, you know, I was, we used to skate all summers and every day after school, but I was also doing gymnastics, and I was also dancing. And when I, one summer when I was skating, something happened to the heel, my heel. I felt a lot of pressure on my heel, and I couldn't put my boot on the ice without feeling the pressure in my heel. So I kind of was forced out of it, but I was forced out of it. Yeah, I was on the Alberta gymnastic team, and so I kind of had to make a decision anyway. - Right, right, right. - Interesting. So the very, very physical family, very sports-like, and then going to the arts is always interesting to me, because in many ways they're sort of diametrically opposed for suits and all that. - Well, that's really perceptive, because they are, I don't know what your parents do, and they're probably not comedians. - No, no. Although my dad thinks he's something of a comedian. He's-- - No, that's like, every dad. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That's my dad's, my dad's-- - That's the dad. - Oh, yes, my dad's favorite joke growing up is if we went somewhere that was having a twin lobster special, he would ask the waitress if they were fraternal or identical twins, and then nine times out of 10, the waitress would be like, "Huh, huh." And then the poor person, the one out of 10, would be like, "I'll go ask." - Oh, no. - And then I was just mortifying. And then half and half you either had her come back after she asked the chef who ridiculed her and would just be like, "Bruh phoney," or even worse, she would come back and be like, "You said they're fraternal?" And then my dad would be like, "I'm interested in identical, thank you." And that's like the height of his humor. - Oh my God. - Yeah. He's always telling me I need to be a prop comedian and how you could build these-- - Oh, wow. Stop bringing the-- bring back the props. - Yes, I mean, if anyone could do it, it would be him. He called me once and he said, "Ken, do you know where you can get a live duck?" And I said, "No." Because I think that if I knew that wrapped up my head, that would be something that I shouldn't be proud of. And then he was like, "Oh, that's a real shame." And I was like, "Is it a real shame?" I don't know, you see, I had this great idea. You get this duck, you bring him on stage with you and you say, "This is my duck, his name is Mr. Peepers." And then if nobody laughs at your joke, you just point at the duck. - The duck did it. - That's the entire plan that I have. And I'm like, "I'm glad that you don't do your company." - Yeah, but he could do an open mic Monday night. - Yes, he could try. - So he realized how hard it is. - Yes, it's weird, I, yeah, both of my parents think that I'm not so much now, but they thought I was very, very quiet and very, very introverted, which was true. - At home. - At home, absolutely. So I was in a punk rock band when I was a teenager and then I started doing comedy. And they're just like, "I can't believe that this is crazy." And they think I'm very conservative, which I'm not. It's very interesting to see how your family perceives you. And part of that's probably true 'cause around them you probably are different, but it's always interesting when they can't believe that I'm doing comedy or doing this or that 'cause they're so very different. And were your parents intrigued by the fact that you were going-- - They did not understand what they never did. - Right. - And you just have to accept it. They're never gonna say the right thing. Like, my mother, I do lead in a future and my mom would go see it in the theater and, and I'd be so, you know, interested. Like, and she said, "Well, I thought everyone did. "Excellent job." - Right, she was very general. - And finally I said to her, "Mom, you're supposed to say "that I was great, no matter what you think, "just tell me I'm great." Not that everybody did a good job. - Yeah, they all were great. Everything, I don't know what's good or bad about this. - So she came around, but my dad was never, but he never, you know, my parents just they weren't, they wouldn't say they loved you. They were not worth that kind. They weren't-- - That's, yeah. I mean, that's the same way. - My mother was more in the later years, much more so, but yeah, I don't know about it. - It's odd to get, yeah, I don't think I've ever said that's my parents are even held with my parents. It's like very, very, it's almost like, yeah, it's almost like roommates. Like, it's almost like, when I think of my parents, I'm like, "I have some people I used to live with." - Isn't that, I mean, that seems like things would be different now, because I was so much different with my son, you know? - Right, yeah, but I think that probably, because you grew up in the environment where you kind of wish that it was different. - Not starved, but like, you know, my father never told me, you know, "Oh, you're pretty, you're great." Or, you know, in fact-- - Proud of what you're doing. - Oh my God, nothing like that. - So you grew up kind of like a tomb wall, you know? You don't really think about how you look at it at all. And I remember he came to see a play that I did and he left it in commission. - Really? - Yeah. - And did you ever talk about it or ask him to learn? - No, he just said it, he said it hadn't, you know? - I got the idea. - He wasn't my kind of thing, he was out on some wonderland. And he goes, it wasn't my kind of thing. And it was like, that's not why you go, dad, dude. - Right, right. - And he probably thinks, "I went and I used to go." - Yeah, I did that, I'll never go again. - Very, very odd, it's odd too when I talk to my parents about things and I'll try to have like a fond memory of something, I can't be like, "Oh, remember, "you would take me to comic conventions or something?" Thinking, it's like, "Here's the thing we did together." And I'd be like, "Oh, I hate it going to those." You know, like if it's like, "Oh." And then the things that kids remember that stay with them that the parent was probably just, why would you remember an off-handed comment or do you think good way through a play or whatever? It's not a big deal, but it really becomes a big deal to people. - So, did you encourage your son to be an actor or did you come to that on his own? - No, he came to that on his own. He's kind of a very academic kind of guy, but he pursued, I didn't let him be in the business because I just thought that was too much. And I found him to a Waldorf school, which is sort of against doing that kind of, and not against it, they don't care. But you know, I was trying to give him this really sort of grounded, earthy, maybe a bit hippie esoteric, almost education. He started, he was doing plays there, and he was doing musicals and stuff, and he, when he did Romeo and Juliet, it's like 16, it was just breathtaking, you know? So, he-- - You're like, he has it, I'm not gonna be happy with you this way. - He has it. And so, I helped us, I could, you know, to get him into a program at La Jolla, or, you know, but he did everything himself. I didn't help him, I could help introduce him to somebody. But, you know, when he's, we're going up tomorrow to see him in the graduate, he's playing Ben in the graduate. - That's great. I mean, especially where you have like these, I always think like sports parents, who are like, you're gonna do the thing I did, and you're gonna do what I never did. So, it's great to hear a more natural development of that sort of almost very organic way that, like it's almost in the DNA that it just happens. - Well, I love, love, love talking to my son about the work, and the subtleties and the challenges with different directors, or different scripts, or different moments, or different, you know, actors and stuff. I just love talking to him about it. - It's great to have the wealth of experience that you have. That's actually helpful, and a thing that you can discuss in, probably for you, where you could never have had those conversations with your parents, who just didn't get whatever they were doing. - Yes, it's fine. I was more like mystified that they kept missing the mark, that we're just sort of not present. - Right, but clearly trying, where they're, you know, let's buy you a TV so we can see the thing you're doing. - Yeah, yeah, that was the moment there. - Dismissive of it, but at the same time, just not getting it. - Yeah, and how can you expect them to? I wasn't angry at them or anything like that. It was just-- - And did they grow up in Edmonton, kind of people? So, yeah, I mean, I think that people grew up in, you know, they kind of, it's a very isolated world, and, you know, like my mother lives in the town, she grew up in, never really went, you know, so I think that it's very difficult. - Yeah, they become very provincial. My dad toured, you know, travel lived all over the place as a occupier, but I don't know, I mean, I used to make these videos for my dad, or for my family, you know, his little comedy videos about different characters. - And this one you were a kid? - No, no, I sort of told him. - As an adult, fine. - For present, right, right, right. - Little, my little, 'cause I'm monologous, which is how I ended up writing a movie. - Right. - And my dad would like those. - Yeah, 'cause you did that, like they-- - Yeah, they're funny, he likes funny, and they're about the family or something. - Right, right, right. - And he'd say something like, "Oh, I wish they were longer." And that would be-- - Well, that's a big compliment. - Yes, yeah, absolutely. - So, there it is. - And so, was there anything that you were on where they were like, "Oh, all right, now you're, yeah, "this is, you're really doing it." Like, was there a thing that-- - No, because they don't have, you know, they-- - Stuff didn't trickle up there. - They will not give any one child more than they would give another child. - Right. - So, you can't, they can't risk it. - Right. - For some reason, that was their love style. Was everybody gets an equal hit? Doesn't matter what it is, and there's no making you special. - And it's probably, in some ways, they're probably trying to over-compensate because you're inherently in a more glamorous, probably the work that your sisters are, so they probably want to be over-compensating for not-- - Like playing it down, just one of the, you know, I think there was something I remember my dad really thought it was cool. I was on something, but it was something so mysterious that it was like, "Really?" - I'm married Dora. - I'm married Dora, yeah, I did that, I did that right after my son was born. - That show blew my mind-- - Really? - 'Cause the, I don't know if you ever saw the series finale of that show. The way they ended that show was insane. They, so it was, you know, a nice little funny show, and those were pain years, very good on it. - Yeah. - And so I watched it and the final episode, so that for people that don't know, I've talked about the show on the podcast before, but it was a guy married his housekeeper so she could stay in the country. - Yeah, yes, yes. - You know, do they actually love each other or not? And so the final episode, he's flying somewhere. She decides she really loves him and goes to the airport to stop him. When she gets there, he's standing there with his bags and she goes, "What happened?" And he goes, "It's canceled." And she goes, "Your flight was canceled?" And he goes, "No, our series." And then the camera pulls back and it shows the crew and the audience. - That's my blow. - And then just goes to black. And at that time, in the mid to late '80s, I mean, nobody did that kind of fourth wall stuff, especially on like a, you know, a pretty average ABC sitcom. - That's my blowing. - So I was just like, "What, what just happened?" And no one remembers that show, but that ending was crazy, crazy. And Moonlighting did a similar thing. - Oh, did they? - But that, you know, but they always did things like that. So it was extra strange to see, you know, just a regular stick to do that. - That's so cool. - But so you did one episode of the other thing? - Yes, I just, I think I, I don't know. They just called me off it. - Yeah, we really hit in the pavement, getting these auditions and getting these things where we just kind of get anything. - Well, you know, you have your agents kind of set you up. You know, I've been accused of being afraid of success and not really be, I just didn't really understand how the business worked or how-- - Like the schmoozing and the-- - Well, yeah, and how to, you know, get a game plan or something. You know, my son is much better at it because I think you're more aware of the business. But I just, I didn't, you know, when I seemed to be working and that was fine with me, I didn't have any big, you know, I wanted to keep working. - Do you think that was 'cause you kind of came in as sort of an outsider and that there are people who, you know, watch Hollywood things and television and go, "Sunday, I'm gonna get out to LA." And you kind of just sort of drifted in there. - Yeah, I drifted in there and, you know, I came out here and I was doing a play within a few months that I did for six months then I came back and did it in another six months and was going off and doing other things and things kind of unfolded for me. It was never like, I was making a living, but it wasn't, and then I had my son. - Right. - And so I was a single mother. I was married for a couple of years, but I was a single mom and so-- - So you're just working. - So you're just working and that's where your focus is on your family and-- - Yeah, and not, you know, I want to be on the cover of TV Guide or-- - No, no, no, never. - And you did two-part family ties. - Yeah. - But Tom Hanks, was it with Tom Hanks? - No. - Were he was the brother, it was an old brother. - Oh, she wasn't? - Oh, brother, no, I don't know. I can't remember that actor, but I remember that was so fun. - 'Cause that show was another huge show. - That was-- - And that was like the family sitcom here with another Canadian Michael Jiffon. - That's right, that's right. He was wonderful. We had a lot of fun. And I, and that is actually Gary David Goldberg was very good friends with the guy, oh, the Michael Whitehorn on pursuit of happiness, and that's how I ended up getting the job, I think. - Oh, great. - Or they heard of me from doing that. - Right, right. - I had to audition, I did a network, I did all of that crazy stuff. - 'Cause Gary David Goldberg was very loyal to actors that he liked and would reuse people very frequently. So that makes sense to me. - And I did a, he produced a pilot for me. - Oh, that's really cool. - Yeah. - So you did a lot of pilots, it sounds like. - I didn't. - I don't really use no. - No, I didn't. - 'Cause you mentioned all the ones you did. - I know, I must've, maybe I do, I forget them. You know, I don't, I don't look back. - Right. - So it's been kind of nice to have the, you know, the popular shirt thing with the hockey thing. - Right, right. - And the, the Wonder Years thing. And other than that, you know, you kind of, you just wanna-- - The next job? - You're always figuring out what's next. - Right, and it's, that always terrified me about moving out here is the, you don't know what's gonna-- - Yeah, you don't. - What the next gig's gonna be. - Yeah. - Which is probably kind of exciting in a lot of ways, but also kind of-- - Not really exciting. - No, I don't think it's exciting. - Maybe it's just romanticized if you're not in that situation. - It's romanticized if you're not in that situation. - But you know, and then I, I work a lot in Canada too. - Right, so that was, it was gonna bring up. Next is that you've, you've kind of come back around and in the last probably, you know, 10, 15 years, started working in Canada a lot again, after mostly just having worked out here. Sort of post-Seinfeld going back up to Canada. So how was that to sort of return to Canada and start working on things there? - I didn't really have it. I started my career here. - Right. - So then I kind of just decided to, when I was there, shooting something to get an agent there. And that was, I've been, I started working in Canada after I'd already been working here. So I really love, I mean, I'm from there. I feel like I'm-- - I feel like coming home or was it more like, I just sort of feel like an American actress working in Canada 'cause it's-- - You know, I don't, I don't feel that way. I feel beloved of both. I really feel like an American. And so many of us are North Americans, you know, I mean, in that sense. But someone came up to me on the last gig that I did and they said, "I can really tell you're an American." - Really? - Really? Is that a good thing or a bad thing? - Right. - And it was really quite nice to hear actually. She said, "You're incredibly prepared. "You know, right from rehearsal, you're knocking "out of the park." He said, "You are absolutely, you really bring it." - He's a professionalism that seems to it. - And I don't know what other people are like. - Right. - You don't think about that. You just kind of do your job and you don't-- - Do you find that working up there is dramatically different from here? - Do you have what? - I don't. - I don't. - But, but, you know, those producers and directors kind of saying that. - I'm sure there's a perception that if you've come from here, you have more of a, you know, I don't know, more polish or something. - Maybe, and I guess maybe that's true because your stakes, you feel the stakes are really high. And also, it's just the way, it's just a style of working. I'm sure there's Canadian actors who do that too, but I also know there's a lot of actors who just come in with sides and trying to figure it out on the day. And that's not fun for me. - You like to do a lot of prep. - I like to prep my fucking ass off. - Right. - You know, I really do. There's the fun. - Yeah, you don't have to worry about it. - And then because you're, you know, if you're a guest, if it's your own show, you still, I love to prep tons and tons. You know, I just want to feel it out and get the words and the rhythms and just get it into me. - Right. - You know, like dance it in, you know, the kind of thing. I don't, and then I can, especially with dramedy, dramedy is very hard. - Right, yeah, I mean, I always say that, especially comedy generally is the one thing you can't fail at and have it take on a different thing. So like, if you do a bad drama, it could be funny. - Yeah. - If you do horror badly, it's funny. - Yeah. - If you do comedy badly, it's just bad. - Oh my God. - It doesn't turn into drama. It doesn't turn into horror, sometimes maybe. - Yeah. - But so that is probably the hardest thing to pull off in dramedy, especially in a lot of, wondering is a good example and a lot of the things that you've done. That mixture of bitter sweet is difficult. - But it's so wonderful. I love those things, most of all. And that's something that will intrigue me till the end of my career. - That's your favorite stuff? - Yes, my absolute favorite stuff. You know, going into a drama, it's so easy in a way. - Right. - And I still think that's something, that the dramedy stuff is something that I'm really, I don't feel I even do comedy. I do dramedy. - Right. - I don't feel that I have that kind of big energy or that thing. - Right, right, right. - Yeah, I mean, it's not like, yeah, traditional, but there's like, you know, the characters you've played in sort of the three-camera sitcoms, which are sort of that comedy thing, are sort of more, have more pathos to them. Like, the puffy shirt character is sort of sad. - Yeah. - And sort of an interesting-- - A human. - Yeah, an intriguing character. And not, I think, on Seinfeld, which is a show that I absolutely love, but sometimes the guest characters were more plot devices than characters. - Yeah. - And, or a joke, you know. - Yeah. - And that character was the kind of thing where you're like, what is the deal with this person? And when you, when they explain that you're like, you're a low-talker, like, do you, are you like, I don't even know what that means? Like, how do I even, or like, whatever the quirks of the character are? - Well, I don't, they were having a really hard time casting it. - Okay. - So, I went in sort of to a producer session, and I just found, you know, I had a little, like, kind of my hair in my mouth. - Right. - Kind of thing, like, I was having a little gesture or something like that, and I had written out a script whose when it said she mumbles, I wrote out a script for what that, of what I would say. And then I, and I, you know, I work on it. And then, and then Larry David said, just do it without the hair thing, and I did. And they were just, they, I guess, that was good. - That's, so, you probably are prepping a lot more than other people, it sounds like. - I assume everyone preps, I think, in this town, everybody scraps. - 'Cause it's so competitive. - So competitive, and I like to have time to prep. You don't often have time. - Right. - So, but, you know, that's, it's really, it's not that pleasant, but it's something you have to enjoy for. - Oh, yeah, I would imagine, I mean, if you're doing it that often, you have to do it. And, yeah, it would be, that's one thing I've never been good at. It's why I never really proceed acting. It's going to stand up because it's very difficult for me to, I'm awful at memorization. And I also have a very difficult time doing words that are not my own. It's very hard for me to actually do them, but you're writing them a lot more as well. So I imagine that that is very fulfilling. - Well, I've done a couple of movies, and I, you know, to do your own stuff is easy, pretty easy. Because, you know, you have the rhythm inside you when you have the feeling so deep in you. And I just did a pilot presentation, which is such a great idea. I don't even know if I should say the idea, 'cause it was so good, but got to, it was really with comedy improvisers. - Right. - And, oh my God, it was so fun, but it's difficult to go from, well, it just gives you like four or five lines, and you can improvise for like 15 minutes. They didn't care. - We already got the thing in the can we need so there's no pressure. - But still, it's hard to, I need more time than I had. I need like about three weeks to really ground that their words in me. - Do you like to improv? - I love it. - So if you do enough preparation, it should be easy. - Well, I can improv without any preparation, but like what we're doing now. - Right, exactly. But in terms of making, taking their, what they think the character is, and really grounding those words seamlessly, 'cause I found, wow, I was a little bit awkward getting their stuff in amongst all the improvising and stuff like that, which they probably didn't care, but I really like to honor the writer, and I think it does ground the character in a humanity that they want to bring. - 'Cause you're almost getting into two people's heads. You're getting into the characters, and also the person who created the character saying they're intense, so that's sort of difficult. - Right, 'cause you're in service, right? And that was great about, I found it with improving. I don't know if you found this, but I think a lot of people, actors, you can just feel them holding on going for the joke. - Right, we're trying to walk someone down a path so that they can hit with their little name. - And it's so, that's not the way to go. I mean, that's, that feels not human. - Yeah, but it's competitive, and people, a lot of people would, that's very odd to me, and I don't know if that's, you know, just me or not having been in the sort of competitive piece of performance that much, but when people are not on board with this sort of rising tide, you know, raises all boats, kind of. - Yes, yes, yes. - If we all look good, I just can't understand it, because I'm like, why would you, at the expense of everyone else, but, you know, obviously happens. - And it doesn't work for the audience. Either, I don't, that's the main thing, is like the audience is watching people looking for something as opposed to human beings interacting, which is like the real fun stuff is. - It takes them out of it. - It takes them out of it, and I think that also, what actors, I found some, don't run a scene. You know, they're not conscious of, and after you do it for years, you get the feeling where you just, you know, we're not gonna run on for forever, we're taking very clear dynamics, and we're gonna run them, however they show out, and we're gonna find, you know, I guess that's the writer in me, you know, wants to create, find something beautiful in the ride, you know, and not just go on looking for something. - Is it hard for you to write things and have other people perform them? - No, I like it. - Do you prefer that to you performing your own words, to kind of see what they do with it? - Well, it's interesting to see what they do with it. I have a long way to go to really nourish that and really see that I've only done really the two films that I've done copy, some months of monologues, but I still have a long way to go to learn in that curve. - And that's, is that kind of what you wanna do? Like, you're like, that's where I'm going. Or everything's still an equal footing. - I'd like to do, you know, I kind of like my voice. - Right. - 'Cause you wanna say, if you have something to say. - Oh, absolutely. - So, I don't know, I just wrote a book. So I'm kind of not, I'm kind of looking to refocus now. - Right, I hear it. And so, love of dramaties, are there any that you used to watch that you love, that you're like, this is the template for dramaty. This should be what dramaty should go for. - No. - Nothing. - Did you keep the TV fairs party? Did you watch things on it after you watched yourself? - On the less than kind, on the four seasons I just did? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You don't have to look at it 'cause you want if you want to pull something for a real. - Right, right. - But that's where business, like, you're almost not. - Yeah, no, you're not into it. - Right. - It's, you only look because you like it. - Do you watch anything now that you're just, that's on, that you're not in? There are other shows you enjoy? - I watch mostly European shows. - Okay. - I would say I'm almost exclusive. The Gavin and Stacey is a fantastic dramaty. - It's a lot of British comedies. - British comedy is, there's no setups in that. There's no, it's just real character stuff. Everybody's grounded, it's very real. - Well, their system is so different, too. - Yeah. - You have, it's usually one or two people's vision. - Yeah. - And they don't have a writer's room. And they're much more limited episodes, which I think the Canadian model is very similar to as well. - No, it's not. Sadly, we're taking the American, but I think it can work. And I think it just depends on who the vision, who's holding the vision. - Right. - You have to, when you have a writer's room, you have to give the vision to somebody. It has to go through one person's vision. And I think that's the way to kind of get that soulful hilarity. - Right, it's still all in that vibe. Like, one of my favorite Canadian comedy shows in the '90s, did you see a show called Twitch City? It was Don McKellar? - Yeah, Don McKellar's the best. - I love that show. It's such a dark, weird, hilarious show. And I don't think a show like that could have been made with the US system. - Yeah. - Now, yes, 'cause I think they're adapting that stuff a lot more than that. And I also watch a ton of British stuff as well. - Yeah. - I lived in England for a while. - Of course, right, yeah. - So, yeah, I watch a lot of that stuff too. There's a show called Toast that Matt Barry does. And I'm sure you've seen that. - Oh, I'm gonna do. - It's very funny and weird. - Is it? - And he's basically just this biactor guy who's very full of himself. But not very dramatic, very silly, but a good show. - Well, 2012, have you seen 2012? - Yes, yes. - Fantastic. - Of course, the British The Office. - Yes, absolutely. I've actually never seen The American Office. - I haven't either. - Which everyone always is-- - I saw a little bit of it. But I go, I'm not into this. - Yeah. - I just think he laid it down so beautifully. - It's so weird here that we remake shows. - And I know. - Instead of just doing either airing the original. - Yeah. - Which all other countries more or less do for American stuff or anything. - Yeah. - And I imagine, you know, Canada wasn't remaking US shows, probably as far as I know. - No. - And we were remaking Canadian shows or remaking British shows. - And Danish shows and Swedish shows. - And it's so very rarely works. - I know. And when you see their shows, oh, it's just so beautiful. I mean, that's what I watch like 90% of the time. - Do you watch a lot of other, from other European countries, like non-English language shows? - Yes, oh yes. Tons of the Danish shows. French, a lot of French- - Do you speak any languages? - No, I have a little French and we watch French shows to kind of keep our French up. - Right, right. And do you find that it's more difficult to enjoy them when the sort of subtleties of the performances and things when the language is so-- - Not at all. - See, I don't think so either. - Not at all. - Yeah, it's the, I've always, when I try to convince people to see subtitled movies, I remember I took my mom to go see Amalet. - Yeah. - Which is where moms will love that, but it's a very sweet movie. And she was like, "I don't want to read a movie." And I'm like, "But you don't even--" - Oh wow, me too. - "Five minutes in, you don't even realize you're reading it." - I've been doing it for so many years and I'm such a fan of European cinema that I guess you get a facility. - Yeah, yeah. It's you don't even realize that you're reading. I think you almost feel like you're understanding the language. - You know, it might be just what your nature is. If you're an auditory person, because I find myself, I just, it's like, you know, John Euston. - Yes. - He would listen to the actors. He wouldn't even watch them. - Right. - And he could tell by the listening and there's something about my love, I guess. And maybe you too, when you feel that, you just go, "I get it from the rhythm and the tone." It's not exactly the-- - Right, but that's probably back to dance as well, like you're a young person and sort of the vibe of it. - Right. - The words themselves. Yes, you have a big picture of John Euston. I assume you're a big fan of his-- - Yes, John Euston, big fan of John Euston. - So you like Westerns? - No, Fat City. - Okay. - It's my favorite, John Euston. - I always love his acting roles. Like, I loved him in My Recommend. - Yeah. - He's so great-- - He's a force. - Yeah. - He's such a force. - He looks like a giant turtle up there in his magnificent-- - You don't get, I don't think we'll get directors like that. - Anymore. - Anymore. I don't know why, but there was the sort of the people working in that old Hollywood system, but also just sort of understand how things work. I think part of that was probably from people coming from other places. They weren't sort of raised on movies. - Yeah, right. - They weren't become so reflexive and sort of insular. - Yes. - If John Euston, you got a sense that this guy lived like a life of a person and then got into making movies. - Yeah, that's right. - He was able to bring all that stuff into it. - Yeah. - And I made bias in non-understanding, then thinking that that's not possible now, but it's just, it's hard to imagine a guy like that existing in the 21st century. - Yeah, right, because, you know, he was, he was a bit of the earnest having way of a bear. - Yes. Exactly. - And he was a Sam Fuller. - Yeah. - All these guys like that where, you know, he was a crime writer and then he was, you know, he was hunting Nazis in Germany and then he's like, "Oh, that'll make some movies." - Yeah, that's true. It's true. - It's right on the end. - Yeah. - You never get people like that now. And it's, you get people who want to be a director in their whole life or, you know, back to your career. It's, you know, I wanted to do this thing and it's sort of morphed into, I say, fell into this and I think that gives you a unique perspective or an interesting angle to look at these things from. Especially where you're not necessarily so involved in watching the day-to-day, what's going on in the business? - No, not at all. - What does he do have? - No, but my career suffered probably because I don't have any idea what's happening. - Do you feel that it suffered though or do you feel like you're-- - Yeah, I feel I could have worked more, you know, and I would have had more stuff like that. I really, you know, I am interested in my own work and it's very difficult to be a single parent as I was for so long. - Yeah, I mean, that's a full-time job. - You know, and do a couple of films during that time and, you know, have my own thing happening. I mean, that's really important to me. - Right. - And I probably don't have the, you know, the money or whatever it is or the notoriety and all of those things that go with it. But I'm happy where I'm at creatively. - Yeah, I think that's the most important thing though. I mean, to me, I mean, I would say, you know, when you kind of look back at the end and you look back at all the things you've done, you know, I'd rather say I was really happy with the thing they did rather than saying, I did all these other things I didn't like, but look at my house or, you know, like, I didn't have to worry about money. You know, as much as I'd like to not have to worry about money, it's with comedy I always say, you know, I could do everything the way that you're supposed to do it and fail. - Right. - Or I could do everything the way I want to do it and fail and then I'm at least like, well-- - At least that's honest. - I made this stuff that I like. - That's just honest, yeah. - Yeah, that's the stuff I did, I enjoyed it. - And it was true, and that's what I, you know, I tell my son, I said, there's that place in yourself where you know, you know, it's your rudder, you know what's good or what's bad. - Right. - You know, you know what the gold inside you when you have that feeling that you're really alive or that you're connected or whatever that feeling is for you, however anyone describes it, I said, just never lose that. And that will guide you through your acting career, through your work, you may never hit it very often. - Yeah, and some people never get that. I mean, there are people who, I always have to remind myself that I get to do a lot of cool stuff that normal regular people don't get to do. You know, the people who stay in the town that I grew up in, or the people that stay in Edmonton, you know, they don't get to do these things. And sort of any one of the things that we've gotten to do, you know, obviously much higher level than I, but any one of those things would be a life-defining moment for those people. And when you get to have a whole series of them, it's kind of amazing which I, but I still have to constantly remind myself that it's so difficult to look at it down. - That's because no matter what life you're in, you're going to get all of it. You know, it's not like, you know, everything has its ups and downs, everything has its stuff that's a drag, everything, you know. - Yeah, it's grass is always greener. - Yeah, it's your attitude towards life that matters and your work and whenever you choose your family or whatever. - Precisely. So finally, when we go through TV guides, I always ask my guests, to you guys is not just informative. It cheers in a jeers, it has opinions. If you were to have a cheer in a jeer for television, what would they be despite not watching too much of it now? - Well, the cheer is that I think they're the creativity and it's sort of becoming these shorter mini-series and I think it's fantastic. The complexity of the characters, the more complex plots. And I think it's a lot of European influences. - It's definitely more European model. - And the jeers is come on, took a police procedurals, the slaughtering of women and the killing of things. I mean, you're seeing this beautiful work, but it's really, you know, the child was killed, the pedophile, the woman's serial killer, everyone's killing women. I mean, we have got to stop that because we don't realize how deep that goes into our psyches and look at how women are treated right now. It is abominable and if you, it's women and children and it's racist, which I had no idea, I never saw that coming. - Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. I mean, one of my pet peeves is like the super genius serial killer cliche that's in every single show and it makes these sort of anti-heroes out of one of the things that doesn't really even exist. But also makes people sort of aspire for like the sort of cheerful-- - Well, it makes us cold and I was reading something the other day about all this police procedural stuff. It makes us comfortable with a police state. - Yes. - And you go, wow, I think that's a really good article. And I think that we really have to, there are new stories out there and I can tell you 'cause I've written a whole bunch and they're women centered creating new worlds and giving us because our stories are so important to us and I think we're in a way we're at the end of that. I mean, I think that you see in the greater things, you see these massaging of stories into different elements. - With their pieces, we don't get, it's definitely time for something somewhat new. I think we've just, sometimes I feel like our culture in many ways is almost post-apocalyptic where nothing new is being created so we have to just pick through the rubble of the past and to recombine them into things that are pretty much the same but not quite as good. And I don't think it has to be like that. - Well, you know, everyone wonders, oh, reality TV, what happened? I go, well, okay, we have to look at this and say people are lonely for themselves but only for their stories because these stories are not serving who people are. So hopefully, and everything's in this shift that we really can't see in all these layers of waves and tapestries and I think that reality TV has also led to new, more human stories and seeing stories of how people are but stories are very important is what we reflect back on ourselves and we really, I hope people will start really producing where women are not just like men with guns. - Right, right. - You know, it's like, 'cause that is just-- - I just wrote this character with no regard for the gender. - Yes, and it's just, I'm just gonna put a woman here. - Right. - And yes, she's packing a gun and she creates problems with guns and solves them with guns and with violence and it's like weeks, and we have to start looking at just seeing the problems we have to see. - Right. - See the solutions. - It's interesting too is I think that some of the writers who write those sorts of things probably feel like they're being very feminist. Like they're like, "No, I wrote her all ballsy. "Yeah, she's kicking ass." And it's like, "No, but that's not, "you haven't thought about this in any way." - She's just a guy now. - Right. And do you think some of your perspective on that is related to having grown up in Canada which is having not been there, it seems to be a much less violent society than the United States or what this woman has. - Maybe, I think it's growing up in a female body. - True, yes. - That gets you right from the very beginning. Like when you're a little kid, you go, "What's happening, what's going on?" - Right. - You know what I mean? It's absurd, it's absurd. And that's my book, 'cause what is a woman because it's absurd to people on planet Earth, et cetera. - Right, right. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. - Well, thank you for asking me. - You're so very welcome, thank you. (upbeat music) - There you go, that was Wendell Maudram. I wasn't wrong, was I? You've probably already purchased her book. If not the Wonder Years box set as well, she's been in so many great things over the years. You can find her at Wendell Maudram.com, or you can go to tvguidescounselor.com. And as always, I'll have all the links to all of her links. So it's easy one-step shopping to find out all about my guests there. There you can also sign up for our email list. We won't spam you. I will just tell you if we're doing live events or when new shows come out. So definitely sign up for that. You can always email me at candidikendread.com or go to our Facebook page and all that good stuff. So we will see you again next week on Wednesday for a brand new episode of TV Guidance Counselor. (upbeat music) - He's such a force and look at that. He looks like a giant turtle out there and is magnificent.