TV Guidance Counselor
TV Guidance Counselor LIVE! w/ Emmanuel Lewis
"Wait. You have a TV?" "No. I don't like to read the TV guide. Read the TV guide. You don't need a TV." I am Ken Reid, your TV guidance counselor. I want to thank you for checking out the show. This is a live edition of TV guidance counselor. Our second live edition, the first being the one with Amy Sedaris. We did at New York's Super Week last month. This month, as part of the Boston Comedy Festival, it was an honor to have Mr. Emmanuel Lewis as my guest. Webster was a show that I watched every week growing up, and I watched it more than that when it was in syndication. I know a lot of people in my generation watched this show frequently, and it made a huge impact. It comes up frequently on the show, so it was amazing to get to talk to him. He's a great guy with a pretty incredible life story, as you will hear in this episode, but really personable and just really easy to talk to. It was pretty amazing. So please enjoy this live edition, or if you are there, you can relive the fun of this live edition of TV guidance counselor with Emmanuel Lewis. Welcome. Thank you so much for doing the show. We got a mic there for you. Thank you so much for doing the show. I appreciate it. This is an honor because your show comes up. Webster comes up very frequently on the pod. Yeah, I'll hold it too. That makes more sense, instead of just, I have that ability. A little awkward. Yeah. So one of my first question for you is, how does a kid from Brooklyn get to become a major network television star? How did that feel? A lot of hard work at first. We did like at least 50 or 60 emotions. Yeah, he did Burger King was like kind of the big one for you, right? That was the one that got ABC's attention. The president blew early at the time. He got his attention and from that they decided that they wanted to develop a show. So when you were, you were about what eight or nine years old? Probably when you started doing commercials? I was nine years old. Nine years old? So what was the catalyst for that? You just something you wanted to do? You know, there was another actor, big ups to a rifle beam. He was in my neighborhood. And I ran into her literally. And we started talking. And it's like, you should be a show business. And we got an auditioned around the corner. So it's like a classic Hollywood story in Brooklyn where I was like, Hey kid, you got what it takes. Let's do it. Yeah, almost something like that. You know, it was funny because I brought the two of my start asking him questions because, you know, we were in Brooklyn and, you know, really, really see all our white dudes, but the neighborhood show. Well, if you did see them, they were probably running. He was literally running. Yeah. So that wasn't unusual. And so I was as curious. Nobody chase you when you run it. And so no, it was, it was a great, a great opportunity. And as long as I asked him a question, he was calling me, he showed asking me a question. I was like, I can't talk to strangers. You got to talk to mom. Talk to my agent too. So after asking him, of course, for like 10 minutes, he's like, what's your name? Oh, I can't talk to you. That's your address. Yes. I get up to my mom and be back with her. I think a day or two later. And next thing I know I was going on, all the auditions. And did you, what was the first commercial that you like was the first thing that the first commercial that I auditioned, I don't want to was Campbell's suit. Okay. And I got that job. So you're like, this is easy, man. I really don't have no idea what to expect. But you know, it got me out of school for a day. I thought that was pretty good. I thought that was awesome. Yeah. So you got a Campbell's suit. And then when that started airing, did people start recognizing you, or like did kids from your neighborhood start to give you, you know, it took a minute for like, you know, you just, it's just like, it's like, you really don't know whether that's like a career. You saw that it was a great situation. Might be a one off kind of thing. It was fun. And you don't really think about it in a career for the first job. It wasn't until like 30 commercials later, they realized, okay, we might actually have some. Right. And 30 commercials, a lot of commercials. That's a lot. It's a lot of work. But we were, we were, you know, working very hard during the Manhattan, very, very often in, in clocking jobs, Colgate, to my cereal to jello pudding. Oh, yeah. All of that. I mean, you weren't every, I mean, I saw you hawking everything at that time. Did you, was there ever a product that you had to, you don't have to say the name of the product if you don't want to? Was there ever anything that you had to be in the commercial for? And you're like, like, you're just eating. No, actually, it was really wild because it's like, as a kid, you're like, I love life's commercial. Like it's a beauty. I love broken king. I get fake burgers. Oh, you're kidding. This is great. It's your price. Jello pudding would do a cosplay. This is when you kids, uh, dream to have all that stuff. Oh, yeah. I mean, there are, you're not like advertising preparation nature or something like the kids that want. It was all true to a kid. And all of it was like, I get free stuff. No, you just get your check and you can enjoy whatever's here at this commercial. When kids like try to get you to go to Burger King with them. So they'd be like, if I go with Manny, I'm going to set up. Like, they're just going to give us a sec. Actually, when we did the show, we had like a box of, like, cards with my face on it. Right. That I could go and get free Burger King anywhere around the world. So you had like a James Bond license to kill for burgers? It was like crazy. I wish I could find that box right now. But I like that you had to have your face on it. They're like, I guess this is you. The Burger King logo had all kind of stuff that got in the back of it. And I promise you, I wore those cards out. Were they like one time you saw? Was there like a one time you sir? Did you have where you have a limited amount? It looked like a box of business cards. Okay. So I had like a whole thing. But every time you used the one I got, you saw that getting less and less. You must have been like, I don't know. I only got two left. No, no. I, I, sure. Listen, you know, you didn't go out there much. You know what I mean? You know, it's a neighborhood. They really didn't actually have a Burger King and a neighborhood. You don't have a local Chinese restaurant. You have your Italian pizza shop. Right. And your convenience store. That's pretty much. You literally have to go out to do that. It's a special trip. Got it while I was working. That's what I actually got to go. Because if that was me, I'd still have like two of those cards on me. Just like, I don't know if I'll have an emergency. I'll have it in a glass case or something. It was awesome. I'm not even alive. But I started carrying a wallet as a kid. You know, of course, there's no money in it, but I had- Just your Burger King cards. Well, because it would serve as an idea as well. I had no idea in that thing. It was, it was- Well, you have a Burger King card with your face. And maybe, like, maybe I have $5 stash or something like that. You don't need it. You could have the Burger King cards. Well, I still need something. That's true. Because you ever try to pay for other things like that. Get on the subway and be like, "This is a Burger King card." I don't think it was- So you have, you're not on any shower. You have a couple siblings? I have, yeah, two brothers, one sister, one sister. Older or younger? I'm the baby of the month. Okay. So when you started doing this stuff, where they just- What did they think of that? You know, they- I don't know what they thought. I was too busy enjoying it, you know? Right. Well, it's probably good that you don't know what they thought because it could have been bad. It could have been bad, but you know, it's- I was actually putting in the work and I was getting the reward. So I guess, you know, the motor here is do the same. They had the same opportunity to do stuff. And I performed with my brother and they did acting stuff. So they're all older. They had more privileges than I had. And I was still the kid on the TV of commercial. But they're older. They always had more privileges. You guys could have done this. You just didn't think of it. Well, you know, they were into other stuff, you know. Were your parents into- Were they inclined to performance or was this completely different? Yeah, this was completely different. I mean, we weren't like, you know, the Jackson's any kind of like that. We'd get a performing mom or dad or anything like that. No, it wasn't like that at all. It was just something that took place. And you know, and it just- My brother did fame. So, you know, he had good credits. He did soap operas. So, you know, he had some pretty good stuff. My other did, brother did print work and he did some soap opera stuff. And was that after, though? You started working. They kind of came into the business. Well, you know, we have the same agent. Right. Right. So, you know, putting the whole family to work. Right, right. As you can't, I can't get you him, but I can get you something close. Right. Yeah. So, what did you use to watch? I mean, you're nine years old. But what were the TV shows that you used to watch at that time when you're a kid girl? And I'm like, what were some of the things that you loved watching every week? I mean, you know, you had the bunkers. You had Jefferson. You had good times, San Francisco. Right. So, you're watching the sitcoms. And you didn't really understand all the jokes, but you understood, you know, some of the funny stuff with Red Fox and, and of course, we cartooned. I mean, Tom and Jerry, like, oh, yeah. Oh, my God. We memorized Tom and Jerry. Especially you probably watching on PIX or something. Oh, my God. That was the thing. Right out of the school. My grandma was watching us once. And, you know, there's a, remember they stabbed the game, I think was on Saturdays. Oh, yeah. Were you dialing? And you have to dial it. Yeah. And you yell at PIX on the, on the, on the TV screen, trying to play the game. So, this was like an early version of interactive television. Yeah. So, they would have like a, like a number board, like one for nine. Right. And it would usually be like a memory game. Like, you show you a, they'd flip a card over and then be like, where's the other Jerry? And you'd have to be, you'd have to press nine or yell nine. You have to yell that and you have to yell PIX. And shut up a game. I can't even remember all the details of the book. We used to yell at PIX, PIX. Oh, come on, guys. You know, you know, you know, you have to yell at the TV, right? And then my grandma was like, PIX, PIX. Who the hell got a PIX? Just go to the bathroom. She had no idea what it was. Because what a way to tell your grandma that you need to go. Grandma, piss now. Oh, yeah. It's gone to the bathroom. Yeah. You got to keep yelling it. Right. Don't just yell. It's, you can go on your, you don't need to ask. WPX was sort of the, the UHF station in New York City that we used to get here in Boston. Weirdly, super station. But that, that aired so many great kids shows. These that were called Steam pipe alley and barre of cantonese to host for a while. They showed a lot of cartoons. There's a lot of weird stuff on there. And they used to do Shocktober every month. We would throw the book back down in the room just to carry it, get to the TV so we can watch all this. Did you have to sort of negotiate with your older siblings about what you could watch or were you all kind of on the same all on board with whatever it was? No, they were older. They pretty much ruled. Which makes sense. They were watching like good times in these older shows. Yeah. You just sat down and, you know, whoever, the, the room was, whoever, uh, took the TV on first. Pretty much. That could lead to some violent interaction. Something like that. Home before we did. So, you know, we just came in. So then watching you just sent your butt down and watch TV. There we go. I guess this is what we're watching. Yeah. There's no fight about it though. But to me, I mean, that, that seems like, was probably kind of annoying at the time. But for kids now who don't have to develop the skill of being patient. Yeah. Or like, just being like, I didn't want to watch this, but I ended up enjoying it because they can watch whatever they want on their phone in their closet. They don't have to talk to anybody. Yeah. It's easy to not go to your homework. Oh, I'll watch what you watch. I'll watch whatever you want. Whatever you want. So you get this, this Burger King commercial was kind of the thing that everyone really noticed you about. It was a series of commercials. I remember the, the one I cleared for it. Yeah. It was the awards for that. And, uh, it just kind of like, I don't know, it was caught on fire and then they were starting shooting them everywhere. It was great. And so from that, you started to get, was Webster before you started getting things like the Bob Hope specials or, um, you were on like Star Search. Yeah, we didn't start Webster about the age of 12. Right. And then, um, from that point on, we started doing a lot of special, a lot of different stuff. So, so it was sort of a, uh, and correct me if I'm wrong, this is, this is what I've heard. And obviously you would know. I, I don't necessarily. But, um, Alex Carras and Susan Clark had a sitcom they were developing. Right. Called then came to you that was supposed to be just like a couple's sitcom kind of just about them. I think they were like married on a whim or something like that. The president of the network goes, this kid's great. We got to get him on a show and kind of mash those two things together. Is that kind of what happened? I mean, I've heard that version. Right. Right. I've heard that version. Um, and, and but we went to meet, we were summons by the president. Was it Fred Silverman? We were Fred. Well, what, uh, Lou Ehrlich was a president of ABC. Right, right, right. We were, we were summons to come to LA to meet him. Was that the first time you'd been to LA? That was the first time I'd been to LA. Well, no, I actually didn't think that was the second time I'd been to LA. Right. First time I was out there was for Life Serial. Okay. So I'd come back out to, uh, LA, um, to see them at, uh, ABC. You know, they had things out with the stars over there. And, uh, we had to meet with him in the office and... It's probably pretty intimidating. Although, it's either the kind of thing where you're nine years old and you're not intimidated for care. I was 12 and I was not intimidated. Yeah, because you don't know. You know, I, uh, my authority was my mother. Right. Okay. If she's good, everything's good. Right. And she's with you, son. Nothing's wrong. You know, as long as she's spotted, I'm spotted. All right. It's a good negotiating. So, yeah. So, if mom was all right, there's, there's, no one else can intimidate me more than my mother. Yeah. Well, that's probably good. She was God. Yeah. Yeah. So, but that was, that was it. And we, we, we know, communicated with him and he's, and the worst of his lips was that we're going to create a show around you. Right. And, uh, we asked him ideas and, uh, we're going to work it out. Uh, I heard the, uh, Stu Silverman, who was the actual creator of Webster. Right. Tell his version of it. And, uh, and, you know, they were working on a development with him. Right. Uh, and he wanted to work with the development. Right. And, uh, I don't know exactly if the name of it for them was then came you. I don't think it was, to be honest, because they were, if they were then came you before I came. Right. It's who came. So, then came your story was about this kid. Right. That, you know, came into the life through their father was, uh, played on the football team with Alex Harris's character. It was like my godfather. So, Alex Harris was my godfather in, in the whole idea. It'd be weird if the show was called Webster before they even talked to you and they're like, right. Who is Webster? Yeah. Well, that's what we're trying to figure out. We have no idea. So, I don't think that it could have been, that came you with them. And then I came in and just, it's not. There's no logic. Yeah. Exactly. Uh, so then it went from, um, actually it was called another ball game first. Okay. That was the original name of the TV show, another ball game. And then when I came on board, they decided, oh, we want to choose the name. So, they became, they became you. Okay. And then right when it was about to air, I was doing some, uh, interview with Johnny Carson. Right. He said, uh, I like how you casually put the, I was doing some interview with Johnny Carson. Well, you know, yeah. He's the actual, well, the one to get for me, the new name of the show. Johnny Carson. Yeah. I guess that's a good person to break news to you. Well, it was, it was awesome. I got a chance to, you know, meet the, the great, the legend, uh, and, and at the time, I really didn't know much about it. My bedtime was like 10 o'clock. That's pretty late. Or nine, you know, depending on if it was the weekend or the only day. So, so, you know, if you see reruns or anything like that, you know, the name, if not the show, I'm sure. Yeah. We, you know, Friday night. Right. We, we, you know, right before we say, if we see, uh, Carson, we stay up long enough. We get, uh, the rest of it. Uh, wrestling. Yeah. Saturday nights made a van was on. Yeah. It was at 49, 12 o'clock midnight. Wrestling came on. And then we could stay up long enough because most of the time we fall asleep trying to see it. But if we could stay up long enough, that your Lord was wrestling. So you try to watch Johnny Carson because you're right there, you know, when it's about to come on. So did you tell that to him? I used to watch you if I was trying to stay away from wrestling. He's like, I hear that a lot. He did not know that. But, but so that's how I found out. And I was like, Oh, yeah. Are you sure? Because I don't want to say that and they get bad at me, or, you know, telling everybody that it's my show. And it's, you know, so he's like, no, no, it's okay. Trust me. Yeah. I got this. I'm Johnny Carson. Yeah. If it wasn't called this before, it is now. Yeah. So he was trying to very much distribute it. I'm like, are you sure not get in trouble? So he's like, yeah. So that's kind of like how I knew they were focusing on your character. Yeah. So yeah. So you start to mention the first season was kind of very different from the other five seasons of the show. It was, it was in an apartment building. It focused a lot on Alex Karis and Susan Clark's character. Were you familiar with Alex Karis, at least before that, because he had like, you know, he'd been in blazing saddles, which he probably hadn't seen as a child. Porky's, would you probably also, I hope hadn't seen as a child? No, I didn't. I didn't know much of that at the time prior to the first pilot. So when the pilot season came, we were about to emerge to do this, and I started to learn more about, you know, their credit. Right. Because they were a real life couple. They were really mad. They were a real life couple. And of course, you know, I, I, all those movies and stuff that he's done was awesome. But, you know, being a linebacker for the Detroit Lions, I think that was the kind of matters thing. My mom loved football that we watched football, you know, all the time. Who were teams? My mom, she loved the bear. Okay. Because it'd be bad if she like hated the Detroit Lions. No, no, no. She loved football generally, but she's not the bear, she's not the 49ers. You know, just, we watched, she loved football period. So did you get to go to games with Carris when you get from your other show? No. No, really. No, which was football game? Really? Yeah. That's a little upset, but was it all upset? I don't think he was like, like, really into it like that. It's like, he got into it, you know, whatever, you know. So, no. What we did go with deep, deep fish, it was. That's like the football of the seed. Oh, we call it Albuquerque. That's a big thing for how Mexico it was the best. That sounds kind of terrifying. It was just you and him. No, he had some family. We were to his house and my mom dropped y'all and we just, that's the first time everyone did deep fish. Yeah. It was great. Yeah. That's an all day. I've been a hook every since. Do you go all the time? As much as I get. That's pretty cool. Did you guys eat the albacorn? I don't remember eating the albacorn. Those are expensive. Those are like 100 grand in Japan. It was huge. And I caught like four. Oh my god. That could have been a TV show in of itself. Like sport, deep sea sport fashion. It was, it was awesome. I think you missed a calling with that. Maybe. So, what were some of the concepts that they pitched you before or Webster? Because they had a couple of different shows they're going to build around. Do you remember any of those? No, it was, it wasn't a couple of shows. It was what shows. As far as the one they explained to be, we're going to build a show around you. Right. So, they weren't like we could have you do this. You could do this or this. No, he's just going to build a show around you. Okay. That's what he said. So, the show starts airing and you start popping up everywhere at that point. I mean, you were close. I think it was Star Search with Ed McMahon. I think he posted an episode of that. You may not remember this. I don't remember half of that stuff. It's a blur. You did all, you did. I think three or four specials, Bob Hope. I love Bob Hope. Yeah, that was awesome. And is that where you met Brooke Shields? I've had Brooke Shields did. Yeah. It used to go to a lot of the awards shows with her, right? Well, yeah, we went to, I think, two awards shows together. But I had already worked with her, you know, at the military base, the Bob Hope. You were doing the USO stuff. Yeah, I was supposed to play. Yeah. So, you're 12, 13 years old and you're traveling to USO military bases? Yeah. Yeah, that was awesome. That was the best. How would that work? So, like, would Bob Hope come in and be like, "How are you doing? How's what we're doing? Would he give you, like, what you're doing?" Oh, yeah. We had a script. We would rehearse. You know, it'd be tight. Right, right. So, there were sketches. He's a perfectionist. Oh, yeah. I mean, he'd been doing it for, like, 40 years of that, too. Yeah. At that time, he was, like, crazy. How much did you have? Like, where did you go to, like, some foreign countries and stuff? Yeah, we went to, we performed for the King of Queen of Sweet. Really? And that was pretty awesome, you know. Jeez. So, I think you also had a single in Japan, right? Didn't you have a hit single? That was all before Webster. That was before Webster. Yeah. How did that happen? How did a new, like, oh, how, like, oh, that was before my television career that I had a hit number one single in Japan. I forgot to mention that. Sometimes I forget. Well, that came out of the commercials? Yes, actually. That's exactly how. I did a commercial for Clarion. Okay. And that was our Japanese connection. It was called CD connection. Okay. And the commercial was so popular that they literally found up with another situation. So, the actual single that I recorded was for the commercial. Okay. But it was so popular that we started to tour with it. We did three shows a day and three different cities in Japan. And it became number one on a billboard chart. Yeah. So, this is your, like, an 81, 10 years old or something, right? Something like that, yeah. So, you've never been to Japan, obviously, prior to that, I don't know. No. So, what was that? We did TV movies, we did commercials, we performed live, everywhere. It was really wild because in America, people was just still catching on to meet the commercials. But in Japan, I was like a rock star. They'd meet you at the airport, paparazzi was there. Well, not different kind of paparazzi. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But there's like, you're like the Beatles. Yeah, it was crazy. All the newspapers, magazines, and either the slow photographers taking pictures of you just coming up the airplane. I mean, it was, it was crazy. Did you try to learn Japanese? I tried to learn a little bit. Difficult, right? It was very difficult. Was it, was it kind of, see, I would, I would be very scared as a kid to go to a country where the first language is not English. Just because I'm like, what if I get lost? What is going to happen? Just life was just so fast, so interesting, so different. I mean, everything that we did was new and awesome and great, right? So, you didn't have a chance to sit and worry about it. You don't even have time to really think about it. All you have time for is to perfect your craft, go out there and do it. Perfect. What else you doing? Go out there, execute. What's the next thing? So, it was never about thinking about what is it that you were doing, other than the fact that whether or not you want to do it, whether or not it was good for us, that's it. But you decided that, now it's just the idea of the script, whatever. It's amazing to me that like, if I just think of kids I knew who were 10 years old, if you made them a number one single pop star in Japan, they would be the biggest monster on it. They would be like, yeah. How did you deal with that as a kid? Like, were you like, this is a one-off thing, or did you feel like, this is it now? This is my career now. Well, you know, I guess because at that time, it's supposed to be 10, 11 years old, my mom had a great dump and job. She went for the government. At that time, she had done computers, she went to school, college, she did that stuff, so she had a really great dump and job. But my career was very, very busy. It was getting really crazy. She had to make one of those life choices that for today, I just respect her immensely for making that call. She had to make a choice, right aside, to go after this. This career that she knows nothing about and give up her government job, which you guys know, it's the 40-40 plan. You know, that's that. You know, they play all time every break. So to drop that and say, I'm going to take a chance on one of my children's to allow them to to fly around the world, to do this, or whatever. And so it was a chance and, you know, that's choice. Yeah, that sounds like she kept your ground up too. You don't know. Oh, no, because your faith's kind of not in your hands. You can just kind of work as hard as you can and do the stuff you do as good as you can do it. But ultimately, it's not up to you if it works or not. Yeah, we have no control of that. But, you know, after the youngest of my siblings, and, you know, my mom's putting it down and realized that it's just a great opportunity. Just very happy. I was actually a very shy kid at that time. Really? Oh, you just realized that in order to perform, you got to kind of come out, find out who you are, and just kind of like explode in your palate. Did it take a lot to get you sort of psyched up to do these live shows and stuff like that in that case? Or were you kind of on board by like, because you were doing, you're singing, you're dancing, you're doing sketches. You know, at first it was petrified. I was just like, it was just a lot. Because it's so different from a commercial where it's like, I messed up, let's do it again. Like, you're in a live show at a USO base for like 10,000 soldiers. You know, live shows for people you don't know, or a lot easier to do than live shows for your peers. True, because you know, if you disappoint them, it's kind of like not. You know, you're going to hear it all day, that day, next day, the next week, the next month, the next five, 10 years for your friends, right? But these people are never going to see you again. That's true. You know, your hope. It's true. In some respects, it's good that it's like, some of that stuff in Japan, because it's like, well, if this goes badly, who's going to know? Like at a pre-internet age. Exactly. But it was more about being prepared. It was more about rehearsals. It was more about perfecting what you were going to do before you get the stage. So you were so well rehearsed, so well prepared. It couldn't go wrong. When you got on stage, it was a different level. You weren't doing your show as you rehearsed it, you were in the moment. It's like a second nature almost. It was no, no, no. It was even more than that. It was, you know, you rehearsed and you've done a really good job and you put all of it in your rehearsals. When you got a chess performance live, you were jamming it. You were in a zone. You were like, like, you were playing with your art form at that time. Right. Did you think that at the time, when you're, you know, there's a, there's a fly that's really harassing him. Lost by Cologne. Yeah. But you, did you look at it that way as a kid? Yeah. Really? Yeah. You were very serious about it. Yeah. I mean, my mom put a job. Right. I mean, you were like, I got it. This is the real job. And, you know, I'm right now, I'm the breadwinner about an age of 10, 11 years old. That's a lot of pressure. You know, I guess it is, if you can't handle it. Right. It is, if you see it as a problem, it was something that, you know, I'm able to do. I, I, I, I, it was a good thing. It was a good thing. Good at it. Yeah. People seem to enjoy it. So if you work a little harder, then you can be better at it. It was an exciting thing that a good at and it's helping and not like a, well, we have no other option. So I guess it's not like you're going to work at, you know, in a store. Because no one else. It's exciting. Yeah. Travel the world. Absolutely. Playing with all these great entertainers that they're enjoying it as well. Has the Japanese single had a resurgence since then? Because that seems like the kind of thing that, like, you know, someone would cover it 10 years later. You know, for years, I would go back to Japan and perform that song and do interviews and they were, they were always very receptive. That's pretty amazing. So you come, you come back to the US, you get this show, Webster, that the name has changed to focus on your character. You're at this point on the show, probably the most accomplished entertainer to be fair, because you have Alex coming from the football world. He's done a couple of movies. Susan Clark's done a couple of movies with him. They did a couple TV movies. So you're kind of like the professional here in a lot of ways. So when you went in there, it sounds like you have this work ethic where the sitcom work is very fast paced, which it seems like you used to. Yeah, we shot an episode a week, and it's like 60, 70 pages. Yeah. Monday, you have no idea what's going to be. And by Friday, you have to have the whole thing down. Well, before then you get the script Sunday night, and you have to have it memorized by Tuesday, Wednesday. You're shooting Thursday and Friday. So did you ever have a problem with that or were you just going to be off script so that you can, you know, it's like you really have to know your stuff so that you can perform it, not recite it. Right, right. Which I think is two of the things that I think people really latched on to with you as an actor was that one, you were 12 and you were playing, I think Webster Law in the first season was six or seven. So you had the sort of wisdom of a 12 year old, but also already, you know, beyond your years anyway. So it's coming out of what people think as a six or seven year old, and they're like, I'm amazed at this person because it seems so natural. Yeah. And you're just, I think there's two ways people have kid actors. They're either working on that level where they know what they're doing, or you have to have the kid who is almost so far the other way that they kind of think everything is real. So it feels real, which is not, I don't think where you were coming from there. But that's how they get a performances out of kids sometimes. So you're doing this show, the first season set in an apartment building, which your character burned down. Yeah. You know, it was really wild because I, and I remember it, it was someone else was supposed to burn down the house, I think. I'm not sure how they went around and then they said, you're going to do it. And I was like, well, I'm not going to be as vocal. So it was, so we did it. And you were firing rockets in the house during the science experiment and the entire apartment building burned down. Whether you're like, all right, we're going to rework the show a little bit. We're going to put you in a house. They're like, great. They're like, but you're going to burn down the apartment building. Yeah. That's very, there was, so one of the things, one of the things about Webster is someone, you know, I grew up sort of religiously watching the show right in the age range for it. And it was a thing that was sort of unique to the 80s where the tonal shifts, these shows, was like whiplash. I mean, it was a very funny family sitcom. It could be very light, but would handle some pretty dark stuff. I mean, inherently, the show's about an orphaned child. So it's already sort of a sort of a dark concept, but a nice sort of loving relationship with this sort of new mixed family. And that was sort of part of the zeitgeist of the time where you had, there was a few orphaned shows because I think that's a kid's biggest fear is that there would be orphans. So I think all kids identify with that instantly. There was. And you probably got a lot of letters and stuff about that I imagine. You know, you learn a lot. I mean, when you're during a show and every week you're getting a script and every week there's a, you know, in those times you had an issue and you solved them and you help other people solve issues. Right. And you did it in a very funny, comedic way. And that was the the goodness of shows back there. They had a beating of purpose. It wasn't just punchline. You were able to help people through life. Because families watched TV together, which I think was sort of the last era that people did that. And you had a mix of age ranges. So when you have an episode about child molestation or an episode about a home invasion or an episode about some of this dark stuff, the family at the very least, it opens up a dialogue. So even where you burn down the apartment building, it's kind of like, hey, don't do rockets in the house. Look what can happen. You know what I mean? But it gives them something to point to instead of, because I said so, it's like you could look what happened to Webster. Exactly. I was the, I was the, don't do this. You're the cautionary example. Is there an episode that you would get in your life? Oh, no. I don't want to have to do this. You know, I mean, that's kind of the funny part of great, comedic work. I mean, you, you don't laugh at the straight guy. You laugh at the guy that's out of control. And so if I was the kid that was out of control, that's what, where the hero came from. Right. So you were fine with it. You were like, I could do that. So another thing that confused me on the first season, Ben Vereen comes in, episode seven, he's Ben Vereen. Five episodes later, he's Uncle Philip. I was six years old, and I was like, what's happening? Why is Ben Vereen, Ben Vereen, and Uncle Philip? Is the two guys that just looked the same? Well, he was always, he was always Philip first, but at the beginning, so they kind of alluded to it. I think, I don't know, it's like in a third episode. That's entertainment. He eludes to being my uncle. He was away with the parents, you know, died in the accident. Showbiz. He could not get me, but not in his back. He was supposed to get me. So he was also filled first, and then we did a little spin on Ben Vereen. Right. Because you have Ben Vereen. It helps right? Yeah. It helps right? Absolutely. So when did you sort of realize that this show was huge? Because it got reworked a little bit, but it was a pretty sizable hint of first season. I mean, it connected with people. You work it. You just try to, you know, do what you can, make sure it's great. So you're not looking at the numbers. No, I mean, wait, we did. We looked at the numbers. We had to, you know, check out the Nielsen's ratings, and they would come in, and they'd say we did this with that, and we're kicking butt, and, you know, I thought, Lee, we knew how well we were doing. Not so much by the Nielsen's rating, but by the other shows that says they went up against, the other network put this show up against us. And it's canceled. And it got canceled. Right. So I was hearing it more from the other actors by, you know, saying their sanity. We were there, they put up against you, and we couldn't win, you know, and we canceled, but, you know, it was great. And so you feel bad when you realize, wow, that's serious, but that's good. Yeah. I mean, you're winning. You're like, that's good. We just put somebody out of work. So I should be happy about it? Yeah. So it was, it was very different. You, you can't really, because that didn't hit you in the commercials, they weren't like, did this Burger King commercial, and they call it, and they're like, hey, McDonald's is gone. Not the same kind of thing. It was different for commercials. It took about, I guess, I don't know, 10 or 11 years old before it started to really make a bigger difference at school and where I walked around, where we tried to go places. People would recognize it. It got crazy. It got crazy, and we needed, started needing security, and I remember one time that, I think me and my mom would never forget, we weren't, she was going shopping. She was going school shopping to get us clothes. And we were in the store, you know, shopping is boring to me, like any other kid. And, you know, there's like, there's a round rack where the clothes are. Oh, did you hide inside? And then there's the inside of the rack. There's like little, like, way, things. It's the best clubhouse. So you just sit there, chill out, and I don't know, eventually your head would just go into another universe. It's like a little, it's a children's teepee. I guess it would have pissed me. Yeah. You're in a, you're in a rack of like, Liz Clayborn jazz. Wow. You get me. Okay. So, I'm chilling in the coats. Yeah. So, at this point, type of people that the store owner had enough sense to lock the door and just kind of let us shop, because trust me, mom did enough damage for me. And this is during the commercials, or was this during Webster? This was, I think this is during the, in the commercial, and just the very beginning of Webster. So the phenomenon kind of just, yeah, it's, it's, it's good, a little crazy right now. Right. So they were back on our window, and they're like, we want Webster, bring him out, and, you know, and then it started to get a mob at the front of the, of the stores. It's, it's terrifying. Yeah. And they're like, bring his Webster. We want him, you know, like, and they're like, like, like Frankenstein, they have like torches, bring him out of here. So it was crazy. And, and then suddenly, somebody hit those, the glass, and shattered the man. It's like, you know, it's all store front glass, right? The doors are under. So they broke the glass, and it was crazy. So the police came in, parted all the people, like the Red Sea, it was really crazy, and scooped me up, and took me in one police car, and took me to the police station. First of all, I went to a police station. Did you think you were getting in trouble? I kind of did. Yeah, I would imagine you would. I mean, you're, you're old. Oh, crap. I broke that window sort of, I'm in the big house. What did I do? Now they got me like, they just like, you know, you go to the old, old school jailhouse, where the big, where you put people at the big tall table right there. Oh, yeah. You come at the intimidation table? Yeah. The big, the big table right there, when you first come in, and they got the big, and they sit me way up there, and I'm looking at them. Oh, my God. This is it. Cut me back. Yeah. Right. And now the first game. So, and I'm thinking, this is cool. You're like, this doesn't happen to everybody else. This is, this is, this is crazy. This is cool. And you had already experienced a little bit of that Japan. Yes. But you could at least leave Japan. Like you could get all the security. It was, it was different. I see, we would do Japan. Everybody would know us. We couldn't go anywhere. We had buses, security. We had police, escorts. But then you'd come home. But when we come home, the body knew us. It was kind of cool. Yeah. We thought, okay, this is kind of cool. We got a double life code. So we go over there, rock out, do shows to like, home, the body knows us. That's cool. Perfect. No. It didn't last long. No, they didn't last long. Would anyone get to you? Like, what would they do if they're like, we want, what's their, what do they want you for? That was the, that was the weird part, that's the only thing that I can think about on the ride over from the, from the back of the police car, over to the station thinking, what do they mean? We woke up, bring us, what do you, what am I going to do when I get there? Yeah, what, they're adults. What am I going to do? They probably don't know about the Burger King card. So that's not it. We want that one. We want that one. But no, it was, it was like, my mom was just frightened out of her. Oh, she would be because, I mean, I think any human being would be frightened in that situation. Anyway, but also when the sort of object of it is their child, they're going to have that additional level of, of terror. Oh, I was like, uh, protection mode. She's like, what's going on? Yeah. So they took her in another car to go get her car to then go get at the station. So could you not do like, normal kid stuff after that? No. Before that, I could do much of it anyway, because it was the smallest kid. After that, it was a wrap. Right. And did, was that, was there anything that we were like, man, I really miss? It was, it was difficult. Yeah. I mean, you know, you're a kid and you're looking out the window and you're seeing other kids playing, you're inside. Yeah. And that was difficult. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that's the trade off, I guess. It was. Yeah. Now, but you know, these kids were playing outside, but my playground was to the confines of a state. Right. So it was a trade off, but in a very good way, then it'd be years to understand. Right. So at the time, you probably were kind of like this, uh, but then sort of as an adult, you can, you have the hindsight to be able to look and say, I kind of got a similar thing, maybe a better thing in some ways out of it. But it took me a while. We're getting picked up in memos to go to the airport. We're not going to a wedding of funeral enough. Right. Nobody died or got married. It's pretty cool. And they got water, juicy stuff in there. So you would kind of have to look at your work on the show, then. It's almost as your play as well. Would you try to or you're, I mean, you're so focused on, on doing the job, right? When did, what did you do for a relaxing? Like what was your vision? You know, it was fun, you know, right next door was a family matter. Yes. So Michael J. Fox was there, TV y'allers, there, that team that I was, it wasn't funny. Yeah, because around the same age, age, age, we would always have fun jumping a bike right around the lot. Right. So it's kids that can understand the issue because they're in the same boat. Michael J. Fox was so cool. He was like, you know, we didn't bother him too much because I was, you know, but he didn't get it because he grew up. Right. Oh, yeah. He was like, cool. Yeah. What do you guys do with this? Would you go see like back to the future in the theater and then go see Michael J. Fox? Oh my God. It was so, it was so wild because they would give it a heart, I can say it, get it. They would give it a hell on that show. Yeah. They was not giving him a lot of respect to love. Yeah. They'd be landing back to the future. They had to buy it out. Yeah. So that was awesome. And he did that while he was shooting that show. So he's running a week of sitcom, which you just, as you just said, it's a lot of work. Yeah. And he's shooting this movie at night. Yeah. It's probably like, are you insane? Yeah. That was really, it was great to see him rise. Like the things because it was, it was not great. He was not getting the love and respect that he did it. And he was very, asked. He was a very funny character. Oh, yeah. He was the breakout character for that show. I mean, you know, the funniest person on the show. I mean, you know, that's just what you watch family times as a fan. Would you watch these shows that you saw people making? Absolutely. I was in the bleachers. She'd watch her film. I'd watch her film it. And then would you watch it? I'd write. I'd write they'd watch it. They'd all write. They'd all write. They'd all write. They would come. That's pretty cool. Right. Yeah. Would you watch it? And that was sweet, which cheers. Oh, wow. Wow. So you feel like you've been to Boston? And the first, the first, the first, the first year, a happy day to still do it on the last show. The last season. And they had Jody Los Chachi. Yeah. We were filming right near where I love Los Angeles to be around. Yeah. The old Desi Louis Studios. Yeah. And then that was a lot was a solid goal. Oh. Okay. Did you visit the solid goal? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, that was the best part. I mean, you know, everybody wanted to share, right? Yeah. So and then across the way, Edward, he had his production. Okay. And he was doing stuff a lot. So I covered Bob, Bob, the heck out at it. Yeah. He watched it like good. Because he ended up doing a pilot with Corki Nemek, who was on the last season of Webster did a show called What's Out and Launching. Right. I think in '89, the year after Webster. Oh, that was cool. Yeah. He was awesome. Because so Webster went for five seasons on A.M.E.C. Yeah. And then he did a six season in first-run syndication. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's the first person to actually get that right. Really? Yeah. I don't must do that. But the kind of, I think the way it worked was that Webster was one of those shows that it was like, you were watching, you'd rush home and watch Tom and Jerry on P.I.X. Kids would rush home and launch Webster because it was on sometimes twice a day in a lot of markets. And so it made sense to do this sort of new season in that package. Yeah. Because A.M.E.C. was like, we're done with the show and you guys, because you were, you had a production company at that point, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. We were producing and giving story ideas and, you know, being very much a big part of the show because we figured, I think, up the closest person to the age of the show. Yeah. And you're the face of the show. Yeah. And, you know, they have to listen. Yeah. So what was it season three that your production company came in? Yeah. Yeah. So that, I mean, you're, what, 14, 15? And you have a production company? Yeah. That's going to be. Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine, like, you're kind of the boss at that point. You know, I never really thought about it in that way. That's good, probably. And it's probably good. I never really thought about it in that way. It was, it was always about doing this project, coming up with another idea or another good project. It's just kind of like... You just want to do good work. Yeah. So back to the lot. Did you pretty much have free reign? Because everybody kind of knew you. So you could kind of just wander around wherever you want it. Yes. Absolutely. Oh, P.B. Playhouse was on a pair of lot. Yes. Yes. For season two. And Star Trek was on a lot. So if you go to the comic series to go eat, and warff would be near a whole hostel, but all the other stars are like, "Wow!" So at the time, did you recognize, as a kid, like, this is amazing. Or were you just kind of like ants? They were. I thought it was freaking awesome. Yeah. And you kind of visited all these sets. I would visit every last one I could, especially on hour, hour lunch or whatever. I'd go to the farthest end of the lot, the other one. And I'd just be riding behind off of my little light. That's incredible. Like, I can't even have met, like, I would ride to the store and buy a coke. You're like, "Oh, there's warff." And P.B. was just like, "Go check out the solid gold dancers." Uh, who's hosting? Is it Arsenio Hall? I don't know. Oh, man. I was like, "Oh, she was down the street. When they went silent, go boondah." They went into that for a studio. So that was better. That was even better. Would you go to the tapings for that sort of thing? I would go and he'd get some of the tapings. Yeah. Even he didn't know I was near half the time. Would you come and discuss? You know, the sets. No, you just grab these lot of people there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just blend in. Just peek in. And he'd be like, "Hey, what are you doing around here? Oh, nothing. You've got to go back to work now." Yeah. It was just looking for Sheila. Oh, that was awesome. So, I mean, you've described, like, every kid's dream, probably, at this time. It was fun. You know, one of the fun parts also was watching Golden Child. And did you watch the filming of Golden Child? I didn't watch the filming of it, but watching the movie Golden Child. Oh, yes, yes. And they shot a piece of the episode in Webster's kitchen area. They used that set. So they used our set, but we were away for the summer. They used our set for a portion of the filming in Golden Child. Now, I think you mentioned that. I don't know how I didn't notice that. But did you know they did that? Or did you just go to the movie and you're like, "That's our kitchen." I was like, "Wait a minute." I didn't know. I didn't know. I was like, "Wow." That was very, very strange. That was like, "That's the dumpware in a minute." Isn't that dumpware? So, in season two is when you burn down the apartment building as we establish, you move into this Victorian house. And one of the things that I sort of tend to bond with people my age with is a thing that I call TV casualties, which are things that they saw as a kid that were not intended to terrify them, but just stick with them to this thing. And there's like three or four of those from Webster episodes that come up. I don't know if people come up to you about these, but one of them is from that episode. It's the episode we're moving on. I think it's episode six from season two. And this is the one we move into the Victorian house. And the creepy thing about this, and I don't know if people remember, is the couple that's renting you the house, their daughters run away from home. And they have a doll of her in her locked room that they haven't changed. And you get locked in that room. And it's horrific. So, what does anyone told you that was disturbing me? I was like, you know, I was an actor in that moment, and it was still terrified for me. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's a, it's a real fright on my face. Because that, so some prop guy made that doll. That wasn't an off-the-shelf doll. But it was really weird. It was like, what are those sets, but we didn't really, I mean, in filming for that, it was shot in that room like twice. Yeah. And then it became your room. Yeah. But this was in the attic, actually. Oh, yes. Yeah, that's right. And so, you would go through the closet and there's still ways to go from one room to the next room. Through the clock. And so, and I stood the clock downstairs and took the closet upstairs, my room. And so, we would, you'd go there. Now, the door was locked. So, another way you could go back out of the room through the shelf was go back through the glass. And so, you go in that, you come out of that closet and you look at it, the lights, you know, and, you know, and chairs that were walking. Oh, my God. So, I'm like, action. Yeah, you're legitimately scared at that point. Because they made you go talk to this doll, like, mess. I can't get out, mess. And it's just this. So, it was, it was, it was kind of spooky. Yeah, because I still don't go see scary movies to that. Because of that? Well, that was helpful. Yeah. So, that's one of them. The other one that terrifies everybody is the next season, the Who's to Blame episode where Webster is left home alone for an hour rags about it at school. And some older brothers do a home invasion and ski masks. But Terra felt like I was a kid. I was like, oh my gosh. And I rewatched it recently and it's much, it's much more humorous than I remember. But at the time, it was completely terrifying. Does people don't come up to you and share this with you? Or are they like, you know, I have different experiences where they'll tell me about a show in detail. And, you know, some of them I haven't seen you. Yeah, I mean, you filmed well over a hundred of them. I mean, I mean, if you came up to me and you were like, hey, remember when you're working that office job? And it was a Tuesday morning. And you made these photocopies. And they were crazy. You remember them? I know. I know. I don't remember every single episode. It's really weird. It's like an about experience to see an episode. You see yourself. You don't remember the episode. And it's you that's speaking. Right, right. But it's you as someone else too. I mean, it's not. Well, yeah, but I mean, it's your face. Right, right, right. But I don't remember the dialogue. I don't even remember the show. I don't know how it's going in. Right. I know. Really weird, like, moments like. It's very uncanny to sort of see that, especially as a kid where, you know, you're probably not going to remember a lot of stuff you did. You know, if you watch a video of a school play or something, you wouldn't remember it. Never mind, you know, 75 hours of you doing that sort of thing. And it was on so much. I mean, a lot of local markets had Webster clubs. And Boston had a Webster Kids club. And you would get a kid. No, no, Boston, you dared on W-O-V-I-T-U-56, which was our sort of W-P-I. Wow. And they had a Webster club kit and you could sign up and you get a Webster club card with your face on it. You couldn't get anything for free with it. And you know, they do contests and that sort of stuff. And it was merchandise. You had a series of records sets that came out, like Webster and Space, which I don't know if you ever seen that. I had no idea that. Yeah. Somebody all meets them. I know, someone else. I told you, I have some, but there was a series of like books and records and sorts of things. And today, do you remember being approached for merchandise? Because those were not work. Was there ever, did anyone pitch you on a Webster? Japan, yes. And for Webster, no. In Japan, there's all kinds of amenity. There was a lot you saw. It was Webster mugs. Some of you know, some of you know, stuff like that. Right. For people who work on the show, you know, but I said, though, at the Paramount office door. Right. Gift shopper. Store. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was some of the merchandise that you had in Japan? Oh, they had dolls. They had pencils. I mean, like, they are the best at the birthday. Do you have some of that stuff? I have maybe one or two idols. Not as one step out of the ship. So you don't have a life-sized doll sitting in a rocking chair in front of a window. And you're from that slot. You were the doll somewhere, but I'm not seated in eight. How old were you when you, this is when you're like 10, 11? I love you. So what do you, how do you react when they're like, is a doll? It's you. Is it just like, okay? It's, you know, it's, it's, I don't know how to explain it. You like, you see it, you realize that that's what it is and feel like it's you and it's just you're... You don't know any different. Yeah. It's business, but it is strength. Yeah. So, but, but everything is strength. Right. So it's all on the same level. Yeah. So what do you do when everything is different? Everything is strength. If you're in language, eating food, you're not going to eat. Right. You know, you, you just, it's all weird. And you're like, this is normal. Yeah. In a very, I don't know, situation. So, yeah. So you're, if you're seeing so much crazy stuff all the time, you have a way of dealing with it and not dealing with it. Right. Right. So I would probably not get with it or really think about it as much. Does that ever hit you now as an adult where you're just like, what, what was going on? Oh, yeah. I think about it now. I'm like, wow, that's just, uh, somebody brings it up. Right. It's the only time I actually think about it. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody brings it up and say, what do you think about that? I'm thinking. They mentioned it. Yeah. What do I think? What, uh, were you, were you ever like a guest on a Japanese game show or like a really? Yeah. What was the craziest? Was it just insane? Oh my God. That was so cool. They had this guy, uh, older gentleman and it was like, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, and he went, that was, that was, that was his thing, right? And then he would go and he would say, he like, it's like, uh, you would say something and you have to repeat it back to him and say, like, he's like a verbal version of the game, Simon. Right. And, and it was, he was, it's Japanese, right? I don't know. Sounds. I don't know what, but it was, it was something that all the people did. It was the end of the show. He did it every, every, that's where he always ended the show and it was crazy. And that was like, the thing I remember, uh, one of the crazy game shows I did was, and you're just like, I guess this is what I do. I don't have no idea. Yeah, you know, you just kind of, you have, you just go with it. Have you ever seen any like videos of that stuff? Was an adult thing, you just kind of? Yeah, there's stuff on you too. Uh, I see someone that was mimicking me as, uh, the Japanese, you know, a Japanese person doing it. So he's got, I used to have a, my look, I had a, uh, baseball cap to the side. Right. I had a, uh, a red baseball jacket like the balls, uh, the baseballs, blue jeans, sneakers, and I was rockin' it like b-boy stuff, right? Yeah, of course. And, um, and that's how I would perform the show. In my, that was my wardrobe from Ford City Connection. I don't know, 14 prisoners at the time. And so I was on YouTube one and, uh, somebody asked me, I had a CD day on City Connection on YouTube, like, I was like, I don't know it. I never looked. And I thought about it again. And there was this older guy, all these things doing my whole show. On his own? Or? Yeah, on stage, we took time on the funny hat. I don't know if I got a propeller on it or whatever, but I didn't have a propeller. Wow. It was like a really, it was like, they say if attention is the greatest form of sport, right? Yeah. But I can't... I don't feel weird. Yeah, most people probably haven't had an elderly Japanese gentleman parody them as a child. But yeah. Well, it was an elderly, who was older. Oh, middle-aged Japanese gentleman. It was very, I was like, wow. That's just surreal. I take that, like, you know, you guys asked me how do I take it? How long would you think? I don't think there's a way, there's, well, in some respects, there's no wrong way to take it. So that's good. Oh, no. You know, you just chalk it up as this is good. It's part of this? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Very different. So in addition, one of my favorite things you did was, was a Christmas special with Mr. T. Yeah. The Christmas wish. And that was probably between, like, season two and three of Webster, I think. That's possible, yeah. Yeah. So how did you remember how that came about? Was that, that they come to you and say, look, we got you, we got Mr. T, we want to do Christmas special, or was that something you were like? No, Mr. T, the A-Team was very hot. I don't know, maybe show me, oh, watch, right? So love A-Team, Brackus, and all those guys. So it was, so we, you know, Webster's head, A-Team the head, and it was like, okay, let me put you guys together, and reach out. You put A-Team in my Webster. You know, yeah. So you got Mr. T and you got the Webster and so it's like, okay, cool. So it was, it was really nice because in New York, it was all a snack. And it was great. I don't know, one weekend of that particular time, it was, we were swimming around Thanksgiving weekend. Yeah, did you go to the parade? And, no, we had a, a different weekend plan. I knew I wanted to go, I was supposed to go see Ben Tyler, Pattabell, and her house. Of course. And, Okay. Yeah, you were what, 12? That's what we're going to do. Yeah. And so we were, we were, we were going to spend time at Pattabell's house for Thanksgiving, and it was cool. And, and then that night, we were going to continue on our way to Atlantic City, because Flashlight was performing, and we wouldn't feel see her as well. And, and then the next day, you know, we were supposed to be back on set. So it was going to be a great, crazy day. So, Pattie, she's a filly. So we went from Manhattan, got up early, went over to her house. We had great soul food. You know, she's an awesome, awesome cook. I'm, I'm sold. The first time I ever had pot liquor for people to that. And not, oh, pot liquor is the juice from well seasoned green, potty greens. Yeah. And it was awesome. Yeah. It was. People, you could probably sell that to health nuts now as like some kind of kale juice or something. And they would be like, Oh, the antioxidants. But people like, we've been eating this for a long time. It's pot liquor. Yeah, exactly. So we did that. It was great. We had a good time when I got with her. And, and, and then we drove from Philly to Atlantic City. Yeah. And we got there that evening, and we got a chance to see Gladys night before with the pips. Very rare performance of the pips. Rare performance. Yeah. And her son, Shango, was in the back, and they played percussion. Right. And he was a young kid at the time, wrote that now, very all that kind of stuff. And so after show, we go hang out with Gladys and just have a good time. And awesome show is like, I think this is one of the weekends up out there for the rest of my life. Well, yeah. I mean, you're, you're filming. All right. Let me sum this up. You're 13 years old. Yeah. You're filming a TV movie with Mr. T in New York City at Thanksgiving weekend. Yeah. You have Thanksgiving dinner with Hattie Lebel. Yeah. Then you go and see Gladys night with the pips in Atlantic City. Yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I slept because we're, you know, with a little home. We're riding all the way they come, but I've slept a whole way. And we got there sometime that night, just, you know, just, I don't know how I got to my room. I'm pretty sure I was like, some of them kids in the arms is getting to the back of the hotel. And it was cool. We wake up in the morning and you got to go back to work in that hat. And it's just like, so cool. I think it's around the corner from FPL Schwarz. Oh, yeah. And some of the stuff was shot in there, right? Yeah. It's in the department. So I'll be like, so the next day I get to go work in FPL Schwarz. I mean, like, this is a lot of pitch feet. Yeah. Oh, geez. Yeah. And that's a, that's a very fun Christmas movie. I watch it every year. I do. If they only understood how much fun I had shooting that to the show. That's good. I mean, you hope that people do, because when it's, you watch something you enjoy from the other side of it. The last thing you want is the people who were like, that was hell on earth. I'm glad you enjoyed it. It was by hell. Like, you just don't want that kind of thing that you, so it sounds like you had a great time doing all this stuff. Those were the perks. I mean, those, those were the times where you started to realize what you were trading off, not going outside, not, you know, doing what the other kids are doing. You stay inside. But on the weekends, we can go do this. Yeah. I mean, you're going to the grand is Michael Jackson. Yeah. So that's pretty cool. Yeah. That's a little bit cool. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, other kids aren't like, like an MTV did a contest to do that. They would have got like 40 million people. I didn't know what she was like. Brooke Shields. Oh my God. I love her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to be like that. So I just did best with him all the time about Brooke being my girlfriend. You know, he really liked her a lot. He's like, no, I like her. You can't like her. I was like, no, but I liked her first. I challenged you to a duel, Jackson. Put the pistols, Jackson. So, so he would, he'd like, sit on this side. I'm going to sit next to her and you sit on this side. And I'm like, she's, she's my dad. I'm like, I was sitting next to her. Well, then there was the time I argued with Michael Jackson about who Brooke Shields was the date of. It was, it was part of our joke. That was our ribbon. I really was too, like, I was going after her. He's going after her, but it was great fun and professional. Oh, yeah. She knew that, you know, we were just having a time, but he didn't really know that I had worked with her. Right. You didn't know that you guys had a help? Yeah. So I never told him. I just let him think. Never figured it out. The classic joke to play on MJ. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was like the 80, maybe the 86 or 87 Grammys, I think you went to. I don't know what year it was all going 30. It was a blur. Yeah. I'm sure it's a blur. One of the things that I distinctly remember watching you on it, and we talked about this a little bit before and vaguely remembered it, but I just thought it was cool and weird, was they had you host an episode of A&E's Evening at the Impro. Wow. So you're, like, 14, and you're emceeing a stand-up comedy show at the Improv on A&E, and the guest word, Creek Shoemaker, and Dana Gould is one of my favorite comedians of all time. And so you're basically going out and doing a step up step. They were like, no, at the time. Yeah. They just started. And I remember meeting him with the Al with the glass or whatever. And he was a cool guy. But Friedman's, yeah, but Friedman, he was a really cool guy. It was interesting. I had seen it, you know. Yeah, it was on. But I did not really know what to do. It was very different. Actually, because what they did, because you weren't pursuing stand-up comedy. That's not why they had you on. What they were doing was they would have sort of non-committees, but famous people, and it ended up being a lot of ABC people. So I don't know if it was just near the studios or something like that. Like Joanna Kearns would host it one night, or something like that. So they would just have this rotating cast of people, and you did that one. I remember the people you mentioned. I remember fun. I remember the going inside, and then making your ride. And it's like a really small theater. Yeah. And, you know, it put everybody's like sharding. It's packed in there. It's really cool. And I don't remember any of the jokes. I don't remember any of the dialogue that I said. How big can you do that stuff or were you like, I got some stuff I'm working on. Let me try. I don't even remember. I have no idea. Because I don't know. Like if I was that age? The only part of my work week. So I had a class in my mind. I'm like doing 60 pages. I still have the last 60 pages of my head. I'm trying to squeeze out for the next 60 pages. Did you do a lot of like public appearances? Would you do that sort of thing? Yeah. Was that just a mob scene? It was pretty crazy. I remember one time we were doing the Youth and Film Awards, and John Pike, the president of TV at the time. And we were letting you know, like it's pretty crazy. What's just that really big here? It's not like it used to be. Like we need security. It isn't all. You don't need security. You just show us just to get up and grab. We need you guys with guns, man. So I was like, you don't really understand. I mean, we've dealt with this before and it's getting really the photographers or a little bit more pushier than they've ever been before. And they're not hearing the word no. So he's like, you know what? I want to be your bodyguard. I'll go with you. We'll go to the award show. Good luck. He ends up punching the photographer out there. He punched Sean Penn somebody? Oh my god. He completely cold decked somebody and got us stowed away somewhere. So we'd be all right and saved. And he's like, okay, now you got to security. I wonder if he knew that was going to happen. He just wanted to excuse to punch somebody. I had this job as stressful. It was just, they was each sought first hand. But when he stopped, there's like, we wasn't born with one at all. Like, let's chill out. Yeah, I mean, that's all. And he's like, they were pushing him. There's very few people on earth who probably can understand what that's like. I mean, it's just not, you know, you're going out to buy socks. And people are like, picture picture for me. Like, I just want a hot dog. Like, leave me alone. Yeah, I went for the surprise. I was a big fan of York Street. Sweet and hot dogs. Yeah, yeah. Love that dirty water. Oh, who doesn't? Who doesn't? So, you're on LA. You're doing the show. The last season, they had Corky Nemec, who was in Parker Lewis later, which was a favorite show of mine. And did you have things you want to do next? Was there like, what's the next move for you? Did you want to do movies? Did you want to do another show? At that point in time toward the end of Webster, mom was very adamant about us going to college. Right. You got to have a real life. Yeah, she's like, you know, all of this is great. You know, we've got great brothers. We can do whatever we want. But, you know, you need an education. Right. And that's non-negotiable. Yeah. And it ended when you were like 18. You were just 18? Yeah. So, I was about 17, 18. When I was starting to do that, I think I got a scholarship powered. Okay. And my mom just flat turned it down. And I'm like, wow. And she's like, you had a scholarship because I didn't really, oh, it really came in. Right, right, right. She was like, you got a scholarship, but they could give some other kid that actually he could pay your own. Wow. You don't need it. Because the more famous you get, the more successful you get. It's weird. You pay for less things. Sometimes. Sometimes. It works, it works, be the one way or the other. You pay less or you pay twice a month. Right. So maybe it balances out of the way. Yeah. I don't know. So, it's like, okay, so I thought I'd be going to USC or I'd be going to NYU. And so, like, we're moving back to, we're moving to Atlanta, which I thought was cool. It was our summer home we had there. Yeah. And I was like, you're going to go to Clark. I never heard of Clark. I never heard of Boy House. Right. And I would mind being, you know, going to Spelman. Spelman's all girls school. That's a sitcom. I'm not just sitcom with you going to Spelman. Like, bosom buddies? I was trying to get a dorm room in Spelman. They had me a nice, nice spot in the basement. Can you build a ladder that goes up to the roof in this dorm room? No, you're not. You're not staying in the dorm room. So, you go to, you go to college and you just. I went to Clark. I'm at a university. What was that like where, you know, you didn't go to regular school. You got taught on the step by a tutor, I imagine. Most of the year. Yeah, I didn't have to have seat time. Okay. I went to Midford High School in Brooklyn, New York, New York. I did two a satellite for a junior high school, PS256. I think she'd been bad at her. That style, Costco, that was my school year. But I actually, I went to all those schools in Brooklyn. Okay. When we were off, I'd go to school. And would the kids be cool? Or would you get a million questions about like, what's Hollywood like? Tell me about Brooke Shields. Are you winning the battle with the jazz school? No, it was different because when I started junior high school, I had to have security walk me to every class. Really? When I went to high school, I had security walk to every class. So it was very different. They stayed away. It was, you know, a little bit more intimidating, a little, it was different than all the years that I had before then. Right. When I went to college, I had a car. Paramount had given me a nice brand new Mustang. Excellent. One birthday. That was pretty bad. Yeah. That's a good, they had a big bow on it. That was hard. I always wondered when people get a car as a gift, if it actually has a big bow. It was a great bow on it. Why? I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I've only seen it in commercials. And when people actually get the car, there's a bow on it. It was a beautiful, big old red bow. It's white. 5.0 mistake, convertible. Nice. And red seats. And I just, it was awesome. It sounds awesome. And then the next day, my mom gave me her presents. Right. Which was the actual gift that I had hoped for, but I was very excited about 5.0. Well, it would be. But my mom came in the next day and gave me 300 emusades. Okay. Yeah. Well, that's a dilemma. We've all been there. Tell me about the bow on the Mercedes. The Mercedes did need a bow. It was, you know, it was parked in front of the house and the car. It was a car that was parked here that I thought, you know, she says, "Come on out. Let me, you know, I'm gonna show you something." Yeah. And of course, it happened where it was or what that I was getting. It's too legitimately surprised. So I was legitimately surprised. Because it sounds like at this point in your life, given everything we've talked about in the last hour or so, I feel like you're a difficult person to surprise. You know, hey, here's a doll of you. You're, you're as single as number one in Japan. This is Patty Lebel's Thanksgiving. You'd be like, "Yep. Yeah, that's a Mercedes. Big deal." No, I was, I was, you know, I saw the scenes. I'm like, "Wow." Did you have to get rid of one? I kind of did. Okay. I hadn't chewed. And my brother, the middle brother between, I'm a youngest, my brother Chris, my middle brother did not have her. Okay. Here I am now. My brother, I've got two cars. So I had to, they didn't make me give away the car. You didn't have a choice though. But it really had a big choice. Yeah. It was, you know, your brother don't have a car. You've got two. Would you like, but I need a weekend car. One of you. And I was like, but that was a gift. You don't give away gifts. That's rude. Is there a law or something or about higher implications? I don't want to give away gifts. I said, let me think about it for a while. So, six years. I went very hard for them. So I bought them. So I get up today. I get the first time being in the car. Should I get in the car? I get a car, JP, not a pipe. How did you like it? Where? And I'm like, what are you talking about? Right. He says, because I have got to the car again. Okay. So I was like, oh, how was your birthday? Great. Because it's good. So we're on our way somewhere. Really? Okay. Well, I'll talk to you for a few minutes. You wanted to be on the phone when you saw it. So I was like, so I see this car on the board. And he goes, it's a car on the board. He goes, happy birthday, guys. He thought it was kidding. So I was like, are you kidding me? So it was a whole big thing. You got a pipe, you know. So because this is to make up for punching that guy. Yeah. And it has your security. All those years of getting help is nice coffee ice cream. Yes. You would pick him up coffee? Yeah, I did. I loved ice cream as any kid would. Well, as a human being, I heard it was a place called giggles, like sort of ice cream. And I would ask whoever was around. You do a room? Yeah, I would have to do an ice cream, right? You would go yourself? Well, yeah. Yeah. So it was like, okay, what do you want? What do you want? I'm going to start picking up ice cream for people that means I'll get a Mercedes or a Mustang. I guess it paid off. So I was like, I said, so I come over the phone. So I'm going to get a spice cream. You want the, you love coffee? Yeah. You want some coffee ice cream? Okay. But it's okay. Okay. So I loved the bubblegum ice cream. And one time for my birthday, my parents gave me some coffee ice cream. And then my grandmother gave me some chocolate ice cream. And they were like, yeah, I have to give one to your sister. It was tough. It was so I sympathized. I didn't sympathize with you. I feel like it's, I mean, when you were telling me that, I was like, man, this is just like my situation. So, sadly, we're kind of running out of time. But, and I could bother you forever with this story about this, but you now hold the record for my guest who's appeared on the cover of TV Got It The Most, previously held by Julia Duffy, who had two, two TV Got Appearances. You have four that I've counted. I made you some more. I've appeared for a time. I've talked about the two. Yeah. The one I have brought here, which is for '84, I think that was the first cover. And then there's a Christmas one with you and Alex Carras. But my question about that is, you know, obviously you're, you're dealing with this fame. You have to have security guard go with you places. But at that point, TV Got It was literally the largest print run magazine in the world. So, for a week, you would see millions of your face everywhere. Did you notice that? Did you see it? Oh, yeah. Every time it went to the grocery store. Yeah. And when you're checking out. So check out us right there. That would have blown my mind. It was pretty wild. I was like, there's beef. I'm out here good. I'm fine. Are we? Yeah. I mean, I, I don't know how I'm going to do that. Did you guys have a subscription to TV Got? Did you get it in your house? Yeah. We had, we had to get that. Would you look at it like a business experience? We might peer it again. We might need, we might need to see that. Yeah. So you wouldn't know if you were going to be on the cover or not till you start? Well, we did the photo shoot. We did the photo shoot for it. And so we do that. That's what they were, you know, working on and doing. So that was a photo shoot. Very nice, very nice. Well, you, you hold the record until I can find someone who gets more than four TV guy comes, which is pretty impressive. You are the record holder. I appreciate that. I didn't realize I held the record. You absolutely hold the record. It may be a long standing record, I think. So finally, I always ask my guests, uh, TV Guide is not just informative. It, it has opinions and it cheers and it cheers. And if you could, if you could have a cheer and a cheer for television, either now or when you're working here or whatever it was, what, what would they be? Man, I don't even know, uh, you literally just be around the world. I know. It's, it's, this needs time to sink in. I don't know. Are there things you watch now? Oh, yeah. I love, I love. What's your favorite stuff? How to get away with murder. Uh, that's a TV show. Are you just telling me that you like doing it? No, it's a great TV show. Shout out to Ralph. She's killing it right now. Two like dramas and sort of, you don't really watch a lot of comedies I imagine. Um, do you get, do you get into business mode when you watch me? Like, uh, they could have done that better. It's, it's different. It's like, it's a different way that we can do it, right? So you, you realize, you know, it's all funny and there's nothing, there's no substance in it. And it doesn't have to be by me. There's no room in cognitive or entertainment for that. It's not that lesson that you guys would have. You know, you know, there's no caveat that you end up with. You know, you just have a, something to maybe tell, but there's, you know, you don't meet with a jewel. It's not that, it's not television so much, especially entertainment, television, and the sitcom. Isn't the sort of catalyst of social change like it was in sort of the post 70s world where, you know, you know, Cosby did a really good job. We have a lot of different shows that we're doing, but you don't really, I love the history channel. I love the Bear Grizzly. I love that stuff. I love the, your massive frontier and I, that's deep sea fish. Oh my god. I love deep sea fish. Yeah. We'll have to go. What are those, the pickers? Yeah, American pickers. American pickers, that is so cool. Do you collect stuff? Are you a collector of things? No, but they make me want to. Yeah. You want to just drive around? I would, I look at, I, I drive by the, what do you call the, when people are selling stuff outside? Jump carrots. Now flea market. Like a flea market. Well, people sell it at the old style. Yarn sale, garage sale. I look at yard sales and, the flea markets are naked. There's a jewel in here somewhere. Oh yeah. There's, there's something that's valuable. I need to go. Yeah. I don't know what I'm looking at. I, here's my favorite purchase at a bot at a flea market. And so I bought this old Christmas sign and it's from a store and it's Santa Claus or it's like, don't forget to order your Christmas something. He's on the phone and I'm ordering a lady goes, that's a very special sign. And I'm like, really, she goes along to a famous person. And really, who isn't? She goes, you heard of Huey Lewis and I agree on she goes, that was Huey Lewis's grandmother's sign. So there's some jewels in there. You never know. There are some jewels. Well, thank you so much for sitting down with me and talking to me. Thank you guys for coming out. It's been a lot of fun. Thank you guys so much. Thanks to Boston Comedy Festival and we'll see you again. Thank you. What else can I say? Emmanuel Lewis, amazing stories. I could have talked to him all day. Really fun episode. I had a great time chatting with him. I have nothing else to say. It was just fantastic. A really good guy. So please let me know if there are other places we should do live. TV guidance counselor podcast. If there are comedy festivals or festivals in your town, let me know. I will do my best to convince them to have me there. If there are other guests you'd like to see on the show, let me know. You can email me at can at icanread.com or at tvguidenscounselor at gmail.com. You can sign up for our email list at tvguidenscounselor.com where we will tell you all about any live events that we have coming up. Or you can like us on Facebook. We'll find out things there as well. And as always, we'll have a brand new studio episode of TV guidance counselor on Wednesday. And I'll see you then again. Big thanks to Emmanuel Lewis for doing the show and to the Boston Comedy Festival for helping me put this together and to everyone who came out to see the show live and to you for listening. So we'll see you again next time on TV guidance counselor and then my grandma was like pics, pics, pics, who the hell got a pic? Just go to the bathroom. (laughing)