In this episode recorded after their recent Boston show Ken speaks first with Captain Sensible, long time guitarist from the Damned and then the Damned's frontman David Vanian.
TV Guidance Counselor
TV Guidance Counselor Episode 42: David Vanian & Captain Sensible of The Damned
Wait, you have a TV? No, I just like to read the TV guide. Read the TV guide. You don't need a TV. [MUSIC PLAYING] Hello, and welcome to TV Guidance Counselor. I am Ken Reed, your TV Guidance Counselor. And I am very excited about this episode. If you are checking out the show for the first time because of my guess, welcome to you. The premise of this show, generally, is that somebody picks a random TV guide from my collection of TV guides, which, if you're from the UK, is a bit like Radio Times or TV Times. And we usually talk about a specific week of television from the past. That is sort of the normal format of the show. Occasionally, we do break format. And I talk to people who have worked in the television industry or just people that I think are very interesting. And we just kind of generally talk about things they watch growing up or television and their impact on their lives and that sort of thing. And that's kind of what we do today with my guest, Captain Sensible, and Dave Vaney, and from The Damned. The Damned are one of my all-time favorite bands. I've said it on the show before, if you're a regular listener. But seeing The Dam perform on the young ones was sort of life-changing for me. And one of the major, major reasons I got into punk rock and I was in a punk rock band when I was a teenager and kind of actually went into comedy and all those sorts of things. So I'm a stand-up comedian from Boston, Massachusetts. And The Damned came through town recently. And I was able to grab a bit of their time to discuss sort of television and what they watch and what they don't watch in some cases. And it was a great conversation. And I cannot thank the guys enough for taking the time to talk to me. So first up is Captain Sensible, the longtime guitar player for The Damned and solo artist as well. The writer, performer of one of my favorite Christmas songs of all time, One Christmas catalog. And when I first asked him about doing the show, he instantly said, no, he hates television. And then I said, well, that might be kind of an interesting angle. Why does he hate television? So we chatted very briefly to get his views on why he hates television. So first up, here is Captain Sensible from The Damned. [MUSIC PLAYING] What? [MUSIC PLAYING] Hello. Hello. It's Captain Birds. Sorry, Captain Sensible. You don't have Captain Birds, I know. We did, though, for a brief time. Yeah, my wife's also British. So she sculls me on the waves of England. Right, let's go. Yeah. So thank you so much for taking the time. When I first talked to you about talking about television, you said you hated television. Yeah. And film. But then I have to collie out a little bit. You did reference Monty Python tonight on stage. Did you watch that growing up? Yes. For me, Monty Python was a program that treated the audience with intelligence. Right. And it was kind of radical and revolutionary. And it made you think. Her art should make you think. Absolutely. You know? Otherwise, why does it exist? And I think it's too much TV nowadays. It's kind of brainwashing to comfort your own living room. Oh, absolutely. Not only that, I just don't get it either, you know? It's kind of-- Life is too short. Life is too short to waste sitting in front of a bloody insidious thing in the corner of the room for like three or four or five hours and evening, you know? I know people are exhausted when they come back from work. But really, they should make their own entertainment. You know, watching sitcoms and comedy and all this sort of stuff. I just don't get it. Do you think it could change? Do you think-- I mean, to me, the way I sort of discovered the damn grown up was when I saw you guys in the young ones. And that was sort of life-changing for me being here in America. We didn't get bands like the Damned on television or on the radio. And so in some ways, it really can be good. I mean, I know you've done a lot of TV in the UK like-- We haven't done a lot of TV at all. But you did so hard for me. We've hardly done any TV. There's no support at all for the-- and it's not bitter, sour grapes or anything like that. I know it may sound like it. But it's mutual. I don't like TV, and TV doesn't like us. Right, but you've done Ferguson here a bunch. Did you know him when he-- We did a show with Craig Ferguson because he was a damn fan. But can you imagine backstage or in his production room saying, yeah, I'd like the dance to it, you know? Have to fuck with it. Who the fuck are those guys? They mean fuck all over here. Why don't we get some big acts that everybody knows? No, Craig Ferguson must have really put his foot down and said I really want the dance. I mean, anything can expose you guys to a lot of people who watched that show that probably loved seeing it much in the way that when I saw the young ones, and 85, 86, I said, what? I have to seek this out and find this. And in my wife, actually, who grew up in Stafford, she said one of her happiest childhood memories is sitting and watching with her mother watching you do happy talk on top of the puffs. And so I think that even if it's small things on there, you don't realize the impact that it has. I remember seeing footage of you on through the keyhole and that sort of stuff on my television. So it does have some place. But I can see how you could feel like it was a waste of time. Do you wish people just did-- just listen to music or read books, or is there a way that you think art could make its way back into television? It's more than that for me. TV is-- when I said brainwash, it really is. When I stopped watching TV, when we had our kids and the kids were going to school and coming back, they wanted to watch this and that program. And then they were watching the advertisements. They wanted this product and that product. They wanted to go to McDonald's. They wanted this to-- It's a consumerist program. Yeah, it is. And I threw the television out, and they grew up completely television free. Gotcha. And they're all independent, free thinking, kind of smart kids. So that was the catalyst that was seeing the effects that had on your kids. That's where it was. And it helped me out as well. I didn't realize how it would take the cotton all the way from my eyes, and I see a different world now. And I really recommend it to anyone to get rid of their TVs because you'd be surprised. Do you use a lot of-- use the internet, and that's the frequently though? Because I think that stuff's sort of melding into one thing. The TV isn't just a TV anymore. It's your computer. I do use the internet, and I read newspapers and stuff, but you have to work out for yourself where the truth is. Because there's bullshit in every medium. Absolutely. There's plenty of bullshit in the internet, but I can guarantee-- There's plenty of bullshit in Rupert Murdoch's publications and TV channels. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. If not 99%. Yeah, oh, no, that's pretty much true. When you guys first came over to the States-- I think you were the first pump end to tour of the US-- and was all the thoughts you had about the US stuff you learned from films and TV growing up, that what you guys would get in the UK? So how did it measure up to the way you thought it would be based on what it's not? Well, to be quite honest, I mean, there is-- I just thought Americans were swaggering kind of big-headed buffoons, you know? That didn't correct. Because, you know, everything's bigger. When Texas, I tell you, man, this, you know, and all this. Yeah, I mean, I just thought, well, I just couldn't be asked. And we went over to play in New York in '77 or wherever it was. And, you know, I think part of the impact that we had was that we had no respect whatsoever. Raxing, being care. We didn't-- no, just didn't care. Why should we? Right. You know, because America's got a lot more missiles and, you know, the mighty dollar and they got Hollywood and stuff like that, which didn't give a shit. Their beer was rubbish. The American beer was absolute fucking shit. And now it's completely changed. I have to say that America is now the cutting edge of brewing technology and innovation. But so it's a real joy to go to a pub in America now. But there's no-- you know, just because, you know, you've got the film industry over here and everything. And we benefited from World War II instead of being devastated by it like the UK was. Yeah, but yeah, but a lot of money from this. But it wasn't for the Russians. We wouldn't have won that war. That's true. That's very true. Although I always say-- Despite what Hollywood tells us. Oh, absolutely. It's Russia that won that war for the Allies. My theory is everyone forgets Italy as part of the Axis, but it's because they really like their cuisine. People don't like Russian food. They don't like German food. They get all the bad stuff from that. But a lot of people enjoy sushi now, so they're OK with that. Yeah, but the thing is, my wife's Japanese. The thing is, you go to a sushi restaurant and nearly all of them are run by Chinese or Korea. Yes, and people don't care. And people don't know. Right. That's the thing. People don't know that it's not Japanese people because they can't tell the difference between Asian countries, but the way their faces look. But I can because my wife's taught me. And sometimes we go, we walk into a Japanese restaurant and she walks right out again, shouting, it's not Japanese. It's bloody Chinese. It's a lie. You fraud. I mean, in some ways, because of things like television and technology, the world is smaller, but just smaller enough that people go, oh, I love sushi. But I don't know the difference between different Asian race bits, which is-- That's funny. You wouldn't go to an Indian restaurant run by-- Italians? Yeah, or Irish. Yeah. I think I have been to an Indian restaurant run by the Irish, but it was very good. So when's the last show you remember watching? TV. Yeah. Oh, no, I still watch-- Still sneak it over and over. Yeah, if I go to a hotel or something. Sometimes I do. I mean, I did-- I loved Benny Hill. I thought that was-- And that was huge here. I mean, it was the biggest British show that was voted over here. I think he was a really nice guy, you know. Did you meet Nick? No, no, I didn't. But I just-- you can tell that he's all innocent, kind of naughtiness. Yeah, like the carry-on movies. It's always getting hurt with this. It's not like a-- No. Yeah. So you-- so you-- I like Benny Hill. I like the prisoner. I thought that was really good. That opened my eyes. Does anyone get angry better than Patrick McGill? Yeah. Nobody else is good as him. Yeah. So you said it opened your eyes, was that a show that-- it's a pretty trippy, heavy show for-- It's his. But everything that he predicted in that show has come true. That's true. Big brother, and sort of cameras everywhere, and double speak, war is peace, defenses, you know? I mean, it's really clever what he's done. The brainwashing-- Oh, absolutely. So a picture of McGill. He's another one. Yeah. Cool. Why do you think-- Well, there you go. Who is number one? We'll never know. Is it Patrick McGill instead? No, no, I mean, in this day and age, it's who is number one. Everyone's vying for it, I think. I wonder why in the UK there were so many more sci-fi and dystopian kind of shows in the '60s and '70s, especially. And what sort of birth-punk as well was there sort of like an intelligent hopelessness is kind of the thing that I would glean from it, being here and getting pieces of that. Oh, I can't-- I'm sorry, I don't have no idea. Oh, you have to speak Vanean, because he's the man for sci-fi and horror and all that stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you very much, Tony. [MUSIC PLAYING] And so I did speak with Vanean, and that would be Dave Vanean, the singer of the damned. It's a little bit loud. We were in the dressing room after a punk rock show while a dance disco was happening in the club after you will enjoy this part of a conversation with Dave Vanean of the damned. [MUSIC PLAYING] [CHEERING] [MUSIC PLAYING] You're the young ones, come to work with them. Yes, yes. [INTERPOSING VOICES] Yes, one of my favorite movies. Yes. I just-- I've got it on my own, and-- Oh, it's great, the new blue rock. And when he put that, we got it. He looked like beef tonight. He did. He did. No one got it. I heard you say. [INTERPOSING VOICES] He went so many on the dinner. Yeah. And that movie is great. I'm surprised that movie never got like the whole Totties that like Rocky Horror got. Yeah, it's funny. Some film students have films down there. Yeah. I mean, usually I like films that I love. Yeah. Oh, yeah, me too. I was talking to Cap earlier, and brought up sci-fi, and he shut down immediately, but said, you're-- you're the man to speak to, but that's what I think. But the thing to me, I'm a stand comedian by trade, who hasn't punked rock bands for years and years here, which is kind of how I got to this path. But seeing you guys playing on the young ones, that was life changing for me here in America. We didn't see bands like The Dammit. [INTERPOSING VOICES] All right, come on. I've played on the radio. Really great people as well. Yeah, it was good fun to do, yeah. Did you ever-- had you ever seen The Shokes? You were in the second series. Oh, yeah, we saw the show, yeah. And then when they asked you, you were just like, we have to do it. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It was perfect, you know. What were the things that you watched growing up? Well, were some of your favorite shows? Uh, OK, well, American stuff is-- obviously, obvious ones have been Twilight Zone-- Right. --but things like the universe. [LAUGHTER] But-- [INTERPOSING VOICES] There was-- we tried thinking, do you want English television? Yeah, either, whatever you watch as a kid. I know some of my favorite stuff was some of the Nigel Neil stuff, like Beast's and some of that British stuff that was very, very creepy and terrifying. Yeah, well, the thing is, we have things like the Quayomance series and stuff like that. But there was lots of weird stuff. We used to have a thing called armchair theater, black and white stuff. And it used to be-- sometimes you get very odd plays a little-- one of my favorite things when I was a kid was the BBC. Always used to have on Christmas Eve. The ghost story. The ghost story. Right. You know, and it would be M.R. James or something. Ray Whitman or something like that. And I still love that stuff. It was really well done. I mean, it'd be acted like Denamely or whatever you know. Right. It was all English actors that were brilliant. So you were always drawn to some horror and sci-fi stuff under there as a kid? Well, when I was very young, I was one of these kids-- yeah, I was very quiet so that I could stay up late when the film was run. I'd be hoping that my mother would fall asleep. It's a good flip on a hammer. And I turned the sound down. Well, it was actually a lot of the old university stuff as well. OK. Yeah, Richard or something. Yeah, I loved all the all the hammer films. It's funny. It's some of the very early handfuls. I've worked on the Quayomance stuff. And the earlier black and white stuff they did. Yes, the more, like, they were like murder and pitch cocking. X the unknown stuff like that and the sci-fi stuff. Yeah, and also, they had some crime paper stuff that, before they became hammer just doing the horrors. Yes, there's a great one they made with Peter Cushing that takes place at Christmas time. And it's about a robbery in a bank. And I can't remember what that's called. It's very, very tense and terrifying. And I always noticed the stuff that we would get here from England. And it was always sort of dystopian. Yeah. [INTERPOSING VOICES] It was always sort of darker. And even the kids' shows, like the 70s' kids' shows we'd get, would be sort of terrifying. They weren't really kids' shows. No, no, no. So when I was funny enough, I was watching some old doctors stuff recently. And I was thinking how it really didn't seem like a show for kids. Yeah, it's terrifying. Our stuff here was so whitewashed and-- Yeah, yeah, sanitized and-- Yeah, what do you think the difference there was? What do you think that kids in England were smarter or easy? No, I think it was more that the actual shows themselves were just well-written in a good show. They didn't write down. And I think, you know, there wasn't any graphic violence at all, although a lot of it was, you know, it was kind of off-camera. Right. And still, the atmosphere would be so thick that it'd be scary as well. Absolutely. Although, I wasn't scared. But the one thing about it is when I was a young kid is that when I'd see the old horror films, I was always fascinated by the actual things. Like the monsters? No, no, no, for instance. You know, like, Frankenstein, things like that, I wanted to live in the house. I wanted the house. So, like, the Gothic architecture? Yeah, right from the beginning. So, to me, it was not just the amazing films. It was the fact that I loved the atmosphere and the architecture and the whole thing about it. It wasn't just the movie itself. Did you grow up in a very city environment that was very different from that sort of environment? Really, but I didn't live. Obviously, I wasn't in a big, scary house or a castle, unfortunately. But, um, no, I just found those things very welcoming, you know, and I went up and thought it was really scary. It would have been great, you know, in the Baron's house up there. Right. So, all the things that were Gothic things were just, it's weird that I think kids just sometimes are just wired for that, but you just, that's always are drawn to that sort of thing. And, like, you know, when I saw you guys in the old ones, I was like, yeah, that's the thing I like. I didn't know it until this time. I mean, I think everyone assumed that I always lived in a Gothic pile and all this stuff. And I would love to, but I think I must have died and been, you know, someone in a past life that was a landowner of a Catholic. 'Cause I just walked straight into it whenever I'm in it now. Were you parents ever into that stuff? Did they watch any of that horror with you? Or you could go, I was waiting for your mom to go to sleep so you couldn't watch it? No, I should be like now. I mean, it's different than mine. My parents, they were quite, say they were normal, but they were, you know, they weren't, they weren't really, it was a different time, really, you know. There was that divide between parents and kids existed where she doesn't anymore, you know. They were very much the parents, you know. Well, 'cause people had to be adults when they turned 18. Yeah, my father was a rebel, he was kind of like, you know, he was like, he rode a motorbike and he kind of, you know, he didn't, I remember, I remember, funnily enough, some kids come at the front door and run in the way thinking he was a vampire at one point. Really? He did a night shift when he had some sort of back hair and he had like prominent bangs coming in. How appropriate. So, yeah. That's a bit like, I'm picturing all of her reading in the movie, "The Damned." Yeah, it was, it was, yeah. (laughing) But also, I loved all those, the other thing that happens is my father, when I was way underage. Right. He was such a fantasy and an ex-field basically. Really? Horrible. So, we would go out and see it. I didn't get to spend a lot of time with my father. He worked so much. Yeah. But he took me to a late night show and we saw, I can't remember exactly what we saw that particular night. It was probably an old, early 60s or late, because horror film and a sort of psycho-bike movie. Right. And would you get, would it mostly be American stuff you didn't get at that time or was it new? That was, that was Amicus and was American stuff to come. But what happened was, I ended up then going to my cinema on my own to see these late night shows. We'd get a double feature beyond like half a year or something. Yeah. 'Cause you got a 10-hour-- For those, what was it that, was I was way underage because I was on my own trying to get in with a bunch of kids. He just used to let me in. Because you weren't going to cause trouble. It wasn't that. I knew I was, they must have known I was underage because I'm Christ, I probably looked at a 10. Right. I looked at when I was 19, you know, bands. Right. But because I was on my own, they thought, well, this kid must like this or they'll let me in. And I got to see some great old movies that way, probably I wouldn't have seen. Which is amazing now, 'cause they think that kids-- Yeah. They have access to everything that's ever been made. No, yeah, well, that's a different-- But they can't stumble on it, though. The difference now is, you know, is that-- I mean, it's funny enough, just I just downloaded to watch on the trip tomorrow, was one of my-- was a film that speak colorized. Yeah, it's not funny. A carnival of souls, you know, which I love. Yes, a carvie. But it used to be those kind of things. You'd get, as you say, a hunt for them, you have to find them. Whereas now, you just click away. Look, it's to my soul, man. And I'm amazed that it's actually there, and it's like they're going on about it. And this wonderful film colorizing, before, would be an obscure film, only a few people knew about it. And you're like, did I even see that? Or was it a weird dream that I heard? I mean, it was like when we were one of the years ago, back in the '70s, I wanted to find out some stuff on the vampire. And I knew there was this article in 954 Life magazine. But I had to go-- I was in New Jersey, and I had to go to a library and find something on microfilm. Right. And then Xerox, the copies, you know, it was all, like, so different. Oh, yeah. I remember I went down to Providence and H.P. Lovecraft's original writings, which was from Ireland. And I went to Brown University, and they made me put on gloves, and I sat and read his manuscript while someone sat there with me. And that was how I read stuff like "Ree animator." And some of it's more obscure stuff, because you couldn't just get it. You have to go over to a library. And it's, you know, I think probably it's just jealous that they have access to all these things now. Because of being in the band in the early days, especially from the stress to me, people had interests, whereas now it's kind of a love, it's confessional with your life. Right, absolutely. And it's not as passionate about it. I miss that obscurity of things. You know, the fact that if you met someone who knew about something, it'd be quite a thing, because you knew what they've gone through to find out. Right, they sort of suffered for that thing. It's kind of a bit silly, but it's like... No, I completely grew that over America. The more a child's tale, you can be Dracula. Oh, yes. Such a creepy movie. I love that movie. Yeah, the only film you ever made. Rainbow Smith, isn't it, I think? I think, yeah. And, you know, they tried to ban it for years. But I remember finding that, and nobody knew about it for years. And now, of course, it's all... Yeah, they can get it on Blu-Ray and a beautiful, pristine trend. And you get a completely restored version? Yeah, it's weird that I always have an issue with this where I can't be happy about that. Like, I'm almost angry about it so easy now. No, silly though. Yeah, it is. But I'll see it like a really nice copy of Dr. Fives or something. Oh, yeah. And I'll be like, "Oh, come on!" We know the hardest thing I heard about Fives is they're going to make a film. Yes, that... Johnny Deppie. Yes. And... I just don't see him. I can't find it. I can see Jeffery Rush or someone. Yes. You know, playing that part. I think for some reason Johnny Depp always takes me out of the movie because you're like, "It's Johnny Depp." Yeah. And he doesn't have that sort of... Like, the degree that it's in price was so sad. I think he's capable of it. It's just that when he works on Burton or whatever, there's so much comedy and so much certain performance, you know. Right. So it's too stylized. What was that film he did with Frank and Gerald? Oh. It was... That was kind of panned. That was a very old factory movie. The Ninth Gate. Yeah. The Ninth Gate. Yes. It was a great old points game. Yeah. If he was very understated and... Yeah. And you know, that's what I mean. He was a great pretmer in that. He's great. Yeah. So I think it's not so much humour. I mean, it's... What people get out of it. Yeah. It's what people want to see. You're out as well. And it's like, "Let's have that Johnny Deppie in my bathroom." You get that all act, it's like so many years, Jack Nipsen's just been his... Jack Nipsen. Right. He's a parody of himself. And then I kind of got a film that was... You know, it was one film he did, but I can't even remember what it is. And I'm totally forgotten. But I'm not thinking, "This is a great performance for a change." Right. Because someone said, "Don't be Jacknipsen. Let's do this." Well, there's that amazing story about Michael, uh, that did, um, which friend or general? Oh, yeah. And he got this really scary, uh, underplayed, Vincent Price performance out of it. Yeah. Because the... I don't know if you've heard this before, so forgive me if you have, but, uh, I think the director was like 20 years old, and he kept telling Vincent Price, "Stop it. Turn it down. It's way too big." Yeah. Vincent Price said, "I've made over 100 films, and then how many of you made me said two good ones?" And then Vincent Price dialed it down, and he's really great at that movie. He is great at that. Yeah. Did you watch any of the whole stuff in the '90s in the UK, like, you know, the League of Gentlemen, or that sort of stuff that was, you know, super sensitive comedy, but pretty scary stuff? Oh, League of Gentlemen is great. Yeah. Yeah. It was much better when it was first shown in Britain without the laugh, because it seemed much more funny and sinister. Yeah. When I put the laugh down, I don't know why it is there. It takes you out of it, I think. Yeah. I think of it without the laugh track. It's probably too intense and scary, sometimes it's a lightly terrifying thing. I did too. And of course it started as a radio show. Right. Right. Yeah. They're fantastic. Right. And they love what on Satan's car. Yeah. Or he indicates a movie, which is a great and scary movie as well. Is there anything that's coming on that you like that you watch? Yeah. Well, no, dear. It's not too funny. The trouble with the love is it's so funny, you know, you're not doing that TV. If you're talking about TV... Well, either. I mean, I... I mean, I... I mean, I... I mean, I'm a huge horror fan and one of the things that bothers me about movies now is that it's all about sort of physical pain. Yeah, I was going to say in most of the films I actually know about torture. Yeah. About torture. And I like to sing more interesting things. Right. Oh, yeah. You know. And I don't think that's a bad thing at all. No. You know, it's like a... And also, there's classic films that were made that were very blood-first but were the one for, like, you know, Totsie. You think that John Carter. Right. Right. I think it was a big John Carter, thanks. I love all of these films. I love the sound tracks. Oh, yes. Yeah. You know, funny thing is, you've said you always wanted originally like Westerns. Right. And if you look at these films, they're kind of always... It's all increasing 13. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And even Prince of Darkness. And the thing is... Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It's cinema. Yeah. When I was out in LA doing some shows early in the year, we went to the church, the church from Prince of Darkness. Oh, yeah? It's right in downtown LA and it looks exactly the same and it's, it's pretty cool to just hear it in. Yeah. I think that John Carter movies only watched them now with like a younger, like a kid. They think it's very slow. Yeah. I know what that is. There's a problem now is everything is so fast. It cuts the fast and then you're going to have to move it. Actually, you know, I like it. An older, shy, little bitch, where it takes it. It's kind of always, you know, it takes a fetishistic view of some figure. It's so dwellers on it. I like it. It's just really gradually on the fold as well. Which is really kind of the opposite of one girl. Yeah. Yeah. It's sort of fast. Yeah. I would never put the two together. No, no. It's not as atmospheric, but it's, it's sort of. Obscure films. One I've always liked, which is almost a damn. Yes. To the damn, with the full of a ring. Yes. The motorcycle game, it's sort of a distillery. Yeah. That's a hit. It's quite, yeah. And it's quite, it's quite surreal in parts. Yeah. It's quite, it's quite moodily shot. Yes. With them for their colleagues, which is all their statues on that. Yeah. She's made of sculptures. The whole thing, like they've got the angles. It's very unsettling. Something about it, it's just, it's almost uncanny. Like, it feels like a world you're used to, but it's just like, right? Yeah. No, that's what I like about those films. They could get that in there without being a graphic sort of. I don't know if sometimes it's also the, the low budget and the black and whiteness. There are four styles of that. I used to think things like, I remember seeing, probably the Twilight Zone or Twilight Zone. And I remember some episodes that were just so simple. Yeah. You know, one was just in a black room. Yeah. Odd people, odd mix of people trying to work out why they were there and how to get out. Yeah. And it was just in a huge bucket basically. Yeah. That's what it was. But it was brilliant. Yeah. But you get these great actors with great performances. But it's hard to do that. I think that's why we see it less. You have to write something really good for it to work that way. Yeah, well, that's the thing. Although there's, I mean, there's great writing these. I mean, things like, you know, away from my, like, boardwalk and mine. Right. And mom's. Did you see French at all? It's all French? No. French was the expert. French was maybe the best horror sci-fi show I've seen in the last two decades. It was very, very good. There's one I did like. I can't even afford it. It was good. Had Jessica Lang. Oh, American Horror Story. Yeah. I like some of that. That was very good. Yeah. But this, to be honest, there seems to be a glut of these TV, you know, monster shows of vampires. Right. And they're basically done, they're more a series of teenagers and problems. Yeah. It's so heavy. It was nice when I went with the supernatural stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And it gets a bit annoying at the con. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's one of my favorites. So it was creepy, eerie. It's like movie that came from you because the real blade of grass. Did you ever see that movie? Very obscure. What was it? It's called "No Blade of Grass." And it was based on a book, but basically what happens is the grass all dies and then everything dies. It's because the animals can eat it and they die and it's sort of this into the world movie, and it's very quiet and very unsettling. Sounds interesting. And there's a movie called "The Final Program," which is a movie as well. She's way back. Yeah. We're in that era of where everyone was terrified of the world. Of everything, right. The Cold War and God knows what else. Yeah, that's some great stuff, kind of that era. Right. I mean, all the sci-fi stuff for America was the Cold War. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. The best stuff. Yeah, and it's funny because my wife is from England and when I talked to her about kind of growing up in the '80s. And here, we were just told that Russia's trying to kill us all the time. I'm not sure. But in UK, it was like American Russia ain't going to kill everybody. Yeah. And we're going to get stuck in the middle. Yeah, it was totally different. And you get things like threads. Yeah. Which is horrifying. Yeah. And I was going to say, are you asking me about new stuff? Oh, yeah. As I actually quite like, I haven't seen it all yet, as the strains. Yes. Because it's quite, I tell you why I like that is because it's, although some of it, you know, I'm not skiing. Because they've obviously got it very graphic because it's trying to compete. They have to get the ice. But I like the way it's an old-fashioned story. Yeah. It reminds me of the last man on Earth, Omega Man. Yeah. Sometimes it reminds me of cheesy, old things like black, not black. Can't you all go back? Can't you all go back? Yeah. You know where the coffin comes on the plane? Yep. And it reminds me of the hotdog and that kind of era of film. Well, I think the era of Deltor was so well-first. Yeah. That sort of world. And I mean, he loves Night Gallery and all these things that, you know, when he's involved with something. It's definitely coming from a place of some new-nosed lexicon of it, which is great. Yeah. I have to, I saw a couple episodes of the string, but I need to keep watching it. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I've got about four of them. Yeah. It's just good, you know, and I can... You want to like it. Yeah. Yeah. I was very disappointed when Hammer had great hopes come back and return. And I didn't expect them to be like they were because you couldn't be. Yeah. But I thought that they would come up with a style and a kind of in-house thing like Hammer. Right. So you'd say, "Well, this is good." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really good. It's like, how could you mess that up if you just re-made that the way it was intended? Yeah. I know. They, they, they, they were summoned in some re-ride and a couple of graphic stuff in there. Yeah. It doesn't really add to it. No, but absolutely doesn't. And it was sort of sad to see. It's like telegraphing the horror console. It's like, it's like, but it comes back to what you were saying when children's stuff was scary. Yeah. See, that was, that was made for younger than 14. Right. Yeah. It was far ahead and much more uneven. Right. They weren't sort of writing down to them. They were sort of respectful to what's scary. Yeah. I, I always, although I love the movie for, because it's just so ridiculous, the Monster Club, the Final Amicus movie. Oh, yeah. But it's such a sad sort of ending to Amicus. Yeah. And it's almost like a TV movie where they have Woolworth's masks on and it's sort of a portmanteau, just ridiculousness. Yeah. And it's, it's almost a perfect end to that because by the time the '80s it come around. It's a shame though, it's not fair. Yeah. Yeah, there's an irony to that. Is it never happened? We were asked to do a transfer. Really? Yeah, but I concept why it doesn't happen to me and it didn't happen to me. I think there is a pretty thing. The pretty things did the Monster Club have. The UV-40, the pretty going. Yeah. But Richard, we were supposed to do something before. That would make sense actually. That would have been a lot better. Yeah. This is free activism too. Look, for the track on the young ones, were you asked to write a video and ask to his own? Now they said really come on the show we're doing this prior and they told us it was about a vampire and they told us it was about video now so we said we had this right a song about it so we quickly rose in the song so it would fit in. Did you write a thing for the monster club and then it just... No we never got that far. But we had the script and I don't know why it didn't happen now. Because I actually like the book, the original art shop where he's a book is pretty good. If there was a movie that you could have worn to be sure that you could have worn tracks for. Is there a movie that you would have liked to have done music for? I didn't want to see it before. Did you ever watch it and just go "Oh this is being ruined by the music we're gonna..." I could have done this so much better. I didn't know about that. And it's funny though, although I don't like not that keen on really gory films. I did like some of those weird films in the set as you know like well that's brilliant. That's for a stylist. And you can watch that without the sound on it. But I was thinking of what the hell am I thinking of. It's in a hotel and there's that thing that infects everybody. Oh shivers. Yeah shivers and those. They came from within. Yeah all those corona birds. I like those. You know they're terrible. Yeah. But they're very smart. I mean the idea of them makes sense in the pseudoscience of it. It was possible. It was quite nice if Barbara Steele was doing something. Oh yeah. Yeah. But they're like the background bar with the black Sabbath and the black Sunday. Yeah I mean all the bava stuff is amazing. Even now I mean I remember when I was growing up it was almost impossible to get bava movies. You can get them all. It's so easy. Which is great. And also kind of like you're like you're hitting her in this movie. You shouldn't be allowed to watch. The originally cut of black Sabbath. Yeah. The bava's great. And it's a world of, it's a conundrum this world that we were having. You can be the greens kind of fitting in that spot. I've liked the bava steel so kind of because you could interact with it. But kind of oddly attract. Right. Which is very strange voice as well. Oh yeah. I thought for all maybe like Isabelle Johnny would be like that when she was in like possession. Oh yeah. So it was very bad for a long time. Yeah it was. That was a video almost. Yeah. And that's it. I remember I went to see that with Skaal. Oh yeah. Hey man. Try to go and see what I was saying. Yeah. I mean before you know you could tape everything. Yeah. I started cinema all the time. And I was, because I lived in London I was always going to cinema. But I've got members there. I've got a lot of each other. Prince Charles. Prince Charles. Yeah. Prince Charles. Just get full of tramps and stuff. It's warm in there. I remember one time. It was like an all night horror show. And they came down the aisle straight. People. It was just like disinfectant. Yeah. It was like delousing the ants. Yeah. It was pretty bad. That's kind of nice though. That's good. But the Skaal was great. Oh yeah. I love the Skaal. I met Forrest Jayak. Oh. Oh. And he gave a, with Ray Harry. Ray Harry hasn't yet. But he went straight into the spiel. I mean, that's just the ring. The bell goes. He wore the ring. Oh yeah. He's on my gato pilot. It's just like an automaton. It was nice to me. Because I mean, his magazine is on the spot of so many people in the business. That monster kid generation. I don't think there's an equivalent after that. I don't think there's like one touchstone. It was sort of a perfect storm of all of the Universal movies coming to television. Yeah. Yeah, I used to. I used to. There was a lot of news age in this place called lots more ice to go to a game. I used to sometimes have it. And I'd be so happy about it. Oh yeah. Because he'd be imported. You would just be like, "Is it here?" Yeah. Because American magazines were harder to get back then. Yeah. But you had a lot of, in the '80s, you started getting a lot more sort of horror magazines like shivers and a dark side and that sort of stuff. But in the '70s, I imagine it was probably pretty difficult in '60s. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was difficult. I don't know. As I say, I had to go to a special place to get that. Right. And what was the other one that came up amongst the world? Yes, amongst the world. Yeah. Just to get that as well. And because they did a special issue, they did an old monster episode. Right. Things like that. Right. Yeah. It's good thing you did find them at all because they always wondered like, "What if I hadn't seen that one thing or found that one magazine that set me on this path to find the things I liked?" Also, there was something that was very important, I suppose, and got me interested in stuff, was when I was very honest, good, there was a, you know, things came through the door and there was a lot of things flier came through the door saying, "This chap is going to set up a movie club for kids up at the church hall." And it was a winter's pitch box. And I was a member of this club, this junior film club. And what it was, this guy set up as a camera and everything. And he would show old republic serials and bits of dodgy... Right, man, junk movie, stuff, you know, flash cord and butt lodges. Right, right. So I got to see all that great stuff. And it was sort of... You didn't see it on TV in an office, and you didn't see it in the movie, so I got to see it because it was pretty old. And it was sort of inadvertently curated by this guy because that's what he got. Yeah. And I got to see all this great stuff, you know. That's great. I mean, that changes who you are, I think, to a degree. It's sort of almost my chance that you sort of describe it. I miss a mix. I'm very, really good at this. But I miss that magic of the old theatre. Oh, yeah. And the lights go down. It has a history, the beautiful place, and then the light... Yeah. There's a few places that I know that have been restored. There was a good one in Brexton that I used to go to. The Ritzy? I think it was... Oh, yeah, yeah. I saw... they had video drums. Yeah. It used to be, well, "Muscle Hello" did. Oh, yeah. There was a lot of decos. A lot of... No, it was still the one screen. Right. And it had this ceiling where it went across like a piece of film. Oh, wow. Yeah, really cool. And it had two exits. It signed the Hexagonal Odeum Clocks. That's pretty cool. And there was this... You know, hold in. That was, like, Egyptian themed. Oh, this is you, like... It was still around when I was living there about 15 years ago. It was once there in... In the kitchen. Yeah. It was linked to the light, but... To dance what? Yeah. Oh, no, it isn't. It's true. It was on. But yeah, it was quite a few light. But it was sort of... It was, it was... It was not out. Like, it meant something because you were kind of stuck going out to see this sort of stuff. There used to be one in North Wales that was quite famous for a while. I'm just going to go back and forth. Oh, but... The... The Jonas had been... Well, it's such hard. I don't. And it was very weird. It was very weird. Like, I was in there and I was watching this film and then this... This woman came down for the... Oh, that's... Ice cream. Oh, no. Like, she would have done. Right. Beehive was all crooked. And kind of like hell. It was really thick eyelashes. Fake eyelashes. Did he make up? Really badly applied. Obviously, still dressed like she would have been in the '60s. Right. And she was in... It was like a post-apocalyptic picture. She could barely, you know, like this. 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