TV Guidance Counselor
TV Guidance Counselor Episode 28: Rick Sloane
We have a TV no I don't like to read the TV guide read the TV guide don't need a Whoa and welcome to TV guys counselor it is wednesday it is time for an all-new episode of the show If you are unfamiliar with the show this your first time checking it out just a little recap of what the premise is I am a comedian from Boston. I'm a huge television fan I own pretty much every issue of TV guide someone picks an issue from my collection They go through it. They write down what they would have watched it that week in television And then we discuss their choices this week my guest is writer director Rick Sloane We break form out a little bit He kind of goes through some old TV guides in general and not just one specific issue But Rick is a fascinating guy If you don't know him by name you probably know him by reputation or by his work He is the writer director of the vice academy series of movies Which were a staple on USA up all night of which I was a frequent watcher and also he made the movie hobgoblins Which is a favorite of MST 3k fans the world over we talk about both those things in this episode But Rick more even more interestingly is the first guest I've had who has actually written and published One of the TV guide crossword puzzles the crossword puzzles we haven't really discussed that much in the show thus far But I did do them every week and Rick actually wrote one So we'll hear that story in this episode We'll hear a lot of fun stories about growing up in Hollywood So please enjoy this week's episode of TV guidance counselor with my guest writer director Rick Sloane Mr. Rick Sloane Rick, thank you so much for doing the show. Thanks. Thanks for thinking of me. You're quite welcome I am a big fan of the vice academy movies and I definitely watch them on TV all the time on USA up all night Which was a which was a huge thing for me when I was growing up and so, you know I listen to your commentary tracks a lot and I very interesting and you have a great story So I thought you'd be a great guest for the show this actually on This a next week. It's the 25th anniversary of when vice academy first debuted in VHS Oh, that's amazing and you were saying you were gonna try and do a reunion show or you still thinking trying to do that I then tempted. I know the hob comes reunion was really tricky getting everybody back Vice Academy because it's all it would be about the core main group But I would probably combine all the films because I'm not gonna do a reunion for each movie. Yeah Ginger as odd as it sounds would probably be on board when it doesn't live in LA So she'd probably be more difficult at this point right right right it's hard to say Yeah, well, maybe maybe a little party happened by the time people hear this So what's really fascinating to me is that you grew up here you grew up in in Hollywood and you actually went to Hollywood high Yes, I did which sounds like some sort for people like me or people that grew up in you know Boston or places like Boston That sounds like some sort of mythological place I imagine it was probably not quite that way, but what was that like growing up here to that effect the way that you watch things? Hollywood high it's kind of while I was there. They actually did a TV show called Hollywood high and it was a big deal They told everyone not to watch it. They told you not to watch. It was a horrible show I mean they didn't get permission from the school right that the school actually refused it So they just had one opening shot of the school from like across the street. Yeah But a lot of it is if every year in the newspaper they would rate all the Los Angeles schools in terms of you know best grade scores and Every year usually Pacific Palisades high school would come in first or second Hollywood high would always come in second or third From the bottom, right? It's it's not an academical school It's just the actual map of where you have to live to go to Hollywood high it goes far to the east So the number one subject to Hollywood high school is English is a second language So it's never okay particularly because it's pretty urban for for LA I mean, it's right on some some sense it on some simple Margaret. It's worth third world, okay But I imagine you probably went to school with although I guess maybe they were going to Beverly Hills High like either You know actors children or child actors or people that were on television Were they going to Holly and I or the sort of private school kind of kids um well I went to school with Allison Auger of Little House in the Prairie We actually knew each other from junior high as well for Smith So that must have been strange where so I always kind of theorize that when you're watching television as a kid The first time you sort of realize that it's artificial that people are acting and that people are writing this you sort of It's a little bit harder to enjoy it at that point because you sort of see the strings a little bit And I wonder if going up around here you would see that much earlier like attending school with someone who's on Little House Which was a huge show did that make it more difficult for you to watch that? Well, this was high school I mean, I kind of knew at a house in high school Yeah, I mean I knew at four years old when I would watch Gilligan's Island that it wasn't real that they weren't gonna get rescued That these were actors and when the show ended they would all go home And that just hit you on your own or where your parents like this is garbage for I never thought TV was real I mean, I didn't really believe any of these show. I mean Gilligan's Island was so hokey and I was even as a child I knew it was fake. Yeah, but I dreamed really very realistic That was much more realistic. So then so then you weren't that wasn't really an issue for you. I imagine but you Did you just always want to be in the business because it just seemed to be like the industry around here? And that's what you do on Going to school in junior high school with people who were in the business there was something I never asked Allison how much she made but she was constantly being hounded by people in school and She never said it. I'm not sure how I found this out but a lot of those child stars were making a thousand dollars a week for those shows and Yeah, I was I mean the idea that most kids are working after school for two or three bucks an hour You're so making a grand in a week. Yeah. Oh, I know how I knew my Later on my tax accountant actually Represented all the new musketeers in like 77 to 79. Okay, and that was the first time I actually asked how much were those kids making right and it was generally like 700 to a thousand dollars So you were like I want to get in this industry. There's some money here Yeah, I mean that was a really unheard of amount for a teenager We make oh absolutely these were kids who didn't have drivers licenses right right right I mentioned their parents probably pocketed Quite a quite a bit of that money, but so you and you were driven to writing first probably more than anything else Or you didn't want to be an actor. I never want to be an actor. Yeah, you're always I'm behind the scenes guy I was writing scripts. Um, I Think 15 and 16. I was already at it very first TV show I ever saw tape live was Laverne and Shirley and Definitely left an impact on me. I just remember the pace They went out of people running and moving cables really quickly get the next shot because they have a one night to film this thing And it's it's important they get it done and you know that two hour window or something because I remember I don't remember the exact order, but I wrote a script for Laverne and Shirley never got made I wrote a script for Threes company because my English teacher and high school new John Ritter that one that one never got Submitted because he said the script was to perverted which was going to point to perverted for Threes company is pretty impressive I mean that show was to perverted for an English teacher. Yeah, well, that's extra acts extra impressive So when you went to go see a taping of Laverne and Shirley I always imagine that it was sort of hard for them to get people to go to all these tapings because there was so many of them Did they did you actively seek it out or were they kind of like just handing out tickets like how did it? They were shooting so many sitcoms and things here at that time Did you you already a fan of Laverne and Shirley wanted to go? Was it kind of like oh, let's go to this thing. I definitely wanted to go the um size of the audience in those shows is only about 100 people that's very very small so um it's not like like a game show or Something like the tonight show where they're shooting one every single day and people just line up not really caring Which episode it's gonna be right you actually did have to write in and get tickets And they'd be months in advance for those shows right so I Don't want to say it was somewhat elitist to get in but it definitely wasn't something they were they weren't giving out free tickets Right you had to earn that so you you had to ask for one away Did you send for a lot of tickets and then Laverne show was the first one you've got um Again, I knew someone who was a writer on this show so we kind of had it in on the phone nice three company I did write in and I have to wait for tickets and you went for two taping for his company as well um I did, but it would have been one of Suzanne summer's last episodes and she didn't show up So they canceled it and they gave us tickets to see some really bad game show that I'm sorry I sat for What a what I was cool to get into CBS studios, right? But what a consolation prize. It's like a three's company. No, you go to a game show same thing These people don't care, but that is see I see I'm sort of the same way where I would have just more enjoyed going into CBS Studios would have been the interesting thing cuz I I went to school in England and when I got there I wrote to the BBC saying like I'm a TV You know media studies student you've got me tapings and every week they would send me just a box of tickets And I would go to television center every week and see all these things tapes And I kind of almost didn't even care what I was going to see It was just sort of being in television center and seeing all that stuff was kind of fascinating So I imagine it was probably a similar situation where that was the one time You could actually go into the studio and you're sort of invited in there must have been pretty cool My favorite part and you're not supposed to do this But Laverne and Shirley was shot and be on the same stage as happy days So they would only I don't know which days which episodes were shot But they would basically just have the sets going for which one they were shooting and happy days in particular It was the same sets almost every week. So While they were on break for Laverne and Shirley I was with some of my friends and we snuck behind the curtain Right and we got to walk back and forth on the happy day set, which was really cool Kind of in the diner. They actually had Joni's bedroom, which you rarely see Oh, wow, they had it all set up with some 50s comic books, which I looked at each one And they were all particularly worthless copies. Oh, I bet they were. Yeah, that member thinking I bet this would be a cool prop is like a Tom and Jerry comic book, which today would be worth about two dollars Yeah, yeah, but that so actually that's interesting transition So you you are huge comic book fan is specifically the Archie's. Oh, yeah Major Archie collection and you're you're an expert on this. They fact check books with your Archie collection. Oh, yeah I mean, I I don't know. I used the way I expert somewhat of an authority I guess yeah advisor and so what what drew you when you're when you're a kid I Still don't know what it was. I had seen many cartoons before Archie the show came out. I Only know the dates. I still have the ad of September 14 And I was seven years old and there's something I mean I think wacky races was on before boring bugs bunny. I'm not sure what was after it and it was just that one guitar chord Everything's Archie. Yeah, and I was glued to that TV set for 30 minutes I don't think I blinked I was just so absorbed with these characters and the voices and I mean all these shows aren't on DVD now you can watch and they don't hold up as well because the animation from filmation was always kind of Second rate. Yes. Um, I was obsessed with Archie and my mother bought me my first Archie comic book within a week And I don't know by high school. I was already writing for the overstreet price guy I was somewhat of an advisor and Archie. So um, I still have several thousand Archie convos is your favorite I was like Dan de Carlo stuff from Archie. Um, I've always had trouble judging because so many of the Archie artists didn't sign their name, right and De Carlo I think was the in terms of stories and the fact that he came up with Josie Yeah, he's one of their best artists. I went yeah He does kind of hold on the crown for that early to mid 60s era. Right, right. So yeah, De Carlo is definitely a greatest artist So you loved Archie, but did you get into sort of the Archie related cartoons like Josie and the pussy cats as you just mentioned? I love this. Yeah, I have a complete sense. Yeah, Josie was one of my favorites Although when they want a better cartoon. Yeah much better cartoon and a more I guess it was more focused better music as well Although much better voices. I never thought the Archie voices matched them Veronica's accent was too heavy Betty always sounded like a boy was doing the boy, right, right? Um Archie was just really Scratchy and like up Just keep messing. I mean, I didn't know till later was like a 70 year old man doing it. Yeah I mean it was always like you have like little kids be done by you know 70 year old women And it was it was sort of an old world Josie had made the best voice actors and the songs are much better Actually, I love that you're thinking of our bar do Josie. Yes Yeah, so that might be why it was a lot better because you have filmation doing Archie and you have our bar doing Josie It's it's it's inherently better until they got to space and then it got a little bit ridiculous But Archie never translated to TV. They as live-action show Do you do you have any thoughts as to why you thought that just never they did return to Riverdale? Which was a weird decade since the 50s and early 60s. They've been trying to make a live-action Archie um The characters they I mean even today well 25 years ago. They were planning a Betty and Veronica feature with Jenny Garth and Shannon Darity never got made I actually spoke with someone at Archie Comics about a year ago and the current Archie movie which they quoted will never be made It's just for publicity. This was their so-called cast it was See Miley Cyrus's Betty. This is a year and a half ago. So obviously they would have changed choices Selena Gomez's Veronica Taylor Lautner as Reggie and they said Justin Bieber for Archie. That is horrific I wonder if they would make him dye his hair red that would he probably go that I can't imagine I wonder if kids read Archie Comics now because they yeah, they still read them Do they update them and make them contemporary I know they did a zombie issue recently, which was kind of strange Archie dies in July, which he dies a comic book character death, which means they're never Yeah, they'll be back in six months on they'll be four Archie's from outer space like the death of Superman There'll be a cyborg Archie and an Archie boy. I'm not particularly fond of killing Archie I know it's a cartoon character, but as a child that would have debuted. Yeah, I imagine I imagine and Archie was always I'm a huge comic book guy I was more into superhero stuff in horror comics was my thing you know pre-code 50s horror comics and all that sort of stuff And I never really got that into Archie But Archie's supposed to take place in Heyverl Mass, which is very close to where I grew up And it was very interesting because Heyverl always had a reputation to serve a rough place Like Rob Zombie comes from there and it's uh, it's not the sort of idealized America that you sort of see in the Archie comics And it always made me curious as to if something had happened or if Archie just wasn't accurate It's probably a mixture of both of those things But you had mentioned me earlier that you think that the best Archie adaption is kind of saved by the Bell? um For legal reasons they'll never admit it was an Archie adaption um, I know from the president of Archie comics the one that They they are the most annoyed by would be high school musical they consider that the most blatant Archie ripoff really We get saved by the Bell specifically because um Elizabeth Berkeley's character wasn't in the original script They kind of had it a sixth character if you remove her the other five characters are they are dead on Archie. Yeah, pretty much That's that's true. And until you mentioned that that hadn't really occurred to me And now I'm like, why how on earth did I not think that before that's Lisa turtles the rich girl? And they have Kelly Kapowski would be Betty and of course that is Archie Screech would be Jughead and Mario Lopez's characters later is ready almost offensive to Jughead to equate him with screech Jughead's such a better character So so you watching the Archie's you also said you love Batman. I love before Archie Batman was the only other show that fascinating I'm the same degree though. My mother would not buy me any Batman comics. Why do violent? Um My mother was very selfish and she would only buy me toys that she could Really really says Batman didn't interest her. She wouldn't have read them She wouldn't buy Batman, but she would buy Archie because when I'd come home from school She'd be in my bedroom reading them. Really? That's what you what does your mom do? She's a house. She's a housewife. Yes. So your parents weren't in the industry at all now But you just lived out here your mother's reading aren't you? That's interesting So really so you wanted Batman, but the only way you could get it was on TV sort of um I don't like grandparents bought me a Batman wall, which I still have. Oh nice. Oh, yeah I know that we're not buying Batman. Would she watch the show with you? No, she wouldn't watch our TV So did you mom watch anything with you? Did you watch television with your family or um? I thought families really watch TV together. No, I had my own small TV in my bedroom. Um No, I mean it would be really difficult to enjoy TV with your parents and make you see the comments Right, so you think they would ruin it while you're watching stuff They would think that the stuff you're watching was too juvenile or trivial or something No, except they were watching was a really a notch above true on Yeah, it was kind of like my comic book like watching TV wasn't really I never saw as a family event I know it's like my personal joy. That's you time. Yeah, do you have any siblings? Not my only child. No, you're only child. So you're watching this on your own. You're spending time with tv yourself I imagine you went to the movies a lot as well um Not as much. I mean I did see a lot of animated films and um I was really big on early 70s horror. I mean I had left hails in the crib and dr. 5s movies Right, right, right. I love those. Did you first discover those on television or seeing them? No, um The trailer's run TV. I want to see the theater. Okay, so tv is what sort of almost um enticed you into going to see these things in the theaters I'm a huge fan of those movies as well. Did you where did you see them around here? Like when those hollywood boulevard type movies or the way they play it like uh, you know a much more um reputable theater, let's uh they were definitely grind house movies um Turn if it was tales from the crypt of dr. 5s one of them I think it was dr. 5s it it not only was it not playing in hollywood I remember having to go downtown to the most rundown theater in my life I mean it's kind of the theaters Tarantino described as grind houses. Right. This is probably on my Broadway or something. Yes And I mean people yelling through the movie people throwing things people fighting. I mean it was actually scary because I was 9 or 10 years old Did you go there by yourself? Um, my mother went with that one and she was not too thrilled either Yeah, that's I mean That's a total world apart from sitting in your room by yourself on your little tv watching these things in the comfort of your home And having to go out into this scary real world to see these movies. I imagine that's just shocking That was the only one that was really that bad. Um, this was the first dr. 5s Yeah, I didn't see the second. Yeah, um that yeah that movie That's interesting that would have played in grind houses. I I guess you know it The companies it was made by and it was marketed as a horror, but that's such a smarter movie and almost an elegant movie And might even tell some of the crypt. Um, our way it might have been might have been trogg that horrible john krafford. Um, didn't engiam released that Um It was definitely something like the bottom wrong Did you have to sort of beg your mom to take you to see these? I saw this trailer on tv. I really get to see this movie and she would kind of go, okay Well, by the time I was 11, I was going to these movies by myself, but yeah anything when I was nine in ten It was kind of the out of dr. I want to get in and would you still go to things like downtown and go to so Yeah, I would imagine going to downtown. I couldn't even hear the movie in a downtown. Yeah, I was just screaming There wasn't a thrill to it. It was kind of more annoying It was like watching something in the high school auditorium with the rowdy kids Right who are just kind of there because they are in this air conditioning or something they're not even care what they're seeing So you love these horror movies you love Would you say that archie maverin and jillian stuff sort of form some of your sense of humor? Or are you gravitated towards the comedy in that? Um, I borrowed very heavily from archie. Um particularly in the vice academy films ginger, lenea or supposed to be beddie and bronga that's why Um, ginger's character holly is kind of spoiled and privileged Um beddie was never half as slutty as lenea for trays But there was still time Still time. So, uh, you're watching these horror movies you love batman And you love it was animated stuff kind of your first love because you mentioned go to speed racer as well I actually wanted to be an animator when I was a child. I actually studied animation for a couple years Oh, I was rejected by cal arts either two or three years in a row And live action filmmaking kind of wasn't really what I was planning to do But in hindsight animation is so tedious and slow Right. I and because I have a large enough ego. I don't know if I would have stayed in animation particularly long Yeah, I mean, it's almost the opposite of that levernon truly thing you saw where it's boom boom boom We got it done this night. It's very immediate Animation is long tds and we're talking years and years and back and forth and doing this thing So I imagine if you gravitated towards that immediately. Yeah, animation would be a real turn off from that point There was still I mean Filmation I think was the last studio making Actually doing animation in the United States probably at that time Everyone else was sort of situated here, but I think they were still farming out their animation So maybe it would have been I mean cal so cal arts for people I don't know is sort of the farm team for Disney basically And everyone goes cal arts. They sort of teach you that Disney style And I believed him Burton went there and started as an animator at Disney. He's one of the most famous cal art Yeah, so that didn't work for you. You said I'm gonna do live action movies and Speed race it was something I watched all the time speakers was the first Japanese cartoon. I remember Speed race speed race speed race are oddly of all the animated shows from the 60s It holds up the fast. I mean I recently picked up a DVD of it and I don't know. It's just the same way archie. I would look at it and go Well, I'd like to the music but the animation is so bad. The stories are so corny speed music. It still holds up It's very well. Yeah, it's campy, but it's fun and it's it's sort of well done Like it doesn't seem as much of that was the thing that always um the Japanese stuff definitely I never really got into anime But the Japanese sort of 60s cartoons and like kimba and um star blazers Which it was called here and that sort of stuff really appealed to me because it it seemed just a better quality Like it seemed more like they weren't necessarily making kids stuff They were just kind of making it happened to be animated but it could have been a live action or they were just putting money into it So um gravitating towards that sort of stuff makes sense. Did you see the speed race or movie? Speed race or also does not translate to live action. No, I probably would just not that one version Yeah, I mean that movie I kind of liked it and I too much cgi There was a lot of cgi and I imagine that that movie in 20 years if they still have midnight movies would be like some college kid midnight movie Let's get here and watch that movie Yeah, it was way too juvenile for adults and way too adult for kids I think it was just sort of somewhere in the middle and not not either thing Um, you're also watching the brady bunch and as in good design as you as you said Everyone on the brady bunch was that just a huge show that like kids at school would talk about when you're in elementary school or Actually because of the school made fun that I like that show really um Archie comics and the brady bunch and listen to the carpenters. They're very closely related. They have a very similar It's that safety factor that these characters don't really live in a real world and that like real babble ever happened to them And everything resets at the end. All right, sort of there's no there's no carpenters so much Well, there's that's uh, maybe musically but not although the carpenters had that sort of inherent Sadness just dripping through everything that they did and there's a ball was about it I mean, they're musically it was nobody was recording stuff like that in the same time period Right, so there's stuff really stood out, but um, carpenters such an amazing voice. I mean, it's totally timeless Right. Oh absolutely and a great drummer Which people seem to forget about so you're watching these shows are you going to hollywood high school? You're writing these scripts to try and get sitcoms And did you did you imagine yourself and when you thought of yourself as an adult being a sitcom writer Or were you just saying this is the in that I have we know someone who works on the show? So I'll write I'll write an episode of this show I Think I would I have plans that long term um I don't know it's like well, I mean how many people can say Like your english teacher, you know can get a script submitted to threes company or no Actually, it was my other english teacher from um junior year Who had contacts at charlie's angels Which oddly I remember writing a script for charlie's angel submitting it through my teacher and never hearing back anything in a year later A kind of condensed modified version of it that pure on me hair, which is crazy I mean so so my first question would be how does that even come up with your teacher? Like this teacher just like hey, I happen to know some people that work on charlie's angels or you know, hollywood high school kind of yeah Really? Yeah, almost everyone kind of because so many former students like john ritter went to hollywood high school That yet a lot of teachers kind of knew people in the business kind of a given right so maybe they taught someone who worked there And that's how they knew these people and so was charlie's angels a show that you watched every week? I love charlie's angel's um is the series that is what vice academy is based on yeah The titles barred from police academy the scripts are from chose right? I was gonna say that it does have a very charlie's angel sort of vibe to it So you wrote this script you sent it in and never hear anything You you sit down to watch your weekly dose of charlie's angels as you did every week and what was your reaction like like? um Probably one of the very first times my job was really drop because I remember Mine was called angel dust and they retitled the angel drugs, which I don't even think is a thing I remember probably more acceptable for tv broadcast. Right, but um charlotte is still doubling as instead of a high school student A college student or the girls don't like and beat up on And I remember jacklin and k where I think teachers or what was it? I don't remember exactly I just remember um up until the three quarter mark it was really really close to the one I wrote the ending they it was completely different but um I have no doubt they definitely read mine. I don't think they men it did I'm sure it definitely was in the back of the mind and some level right right so you so you were just like well That's how it is out here. I kind of just have to just deal with it. Um Even then teachers were telling me you still on high school. You don't really want to be suing a student Right, right, right. You're gonna end any career you may have before it even starts by doing that if you're suing a studio But I think I learned really early on um I mean when you're doing in a film um feature films in particular if you have a really good title don't use it when you um Post the film in variety for casting because people can see your title and borrow it and they'll steal it Oh, yeah, I you can't actually um phone or copyrighted titles. So I've been I've been almost every film I've made was in production under a fake title Just to sort of throw them off dissent before you could yeah, that's interesting I mean, I certainly don't make vice academy telling everyone that's what it's called. What was your fake title for vice? I remember all the sequels. Um I know three was crime of the century four was till marriage to us part um Beach movie. I remember they all had um intentional fake titles. Um, oh bikini banners was vice academy six Oh, nice. Yeah, there were all in production under different titles So you graduate hollywood high school and then you want to go into film production? Um want to be an animator though kellart's shot that one day. Right. So Instead, I went to ellie city college where I was laughed at by all the professors um Using a fake 10 page script or shot my first feature at 21 which was what yeah, it was told repeatedly cut it to 10 minutes long um, cut it to 10 minutes long. I'm not sure what I would have done with a bad minute movie What did you do with a 10 minute movie? But um, but mare warrenov is in that movie. Yeah, and that's amazing. I mean, how did you? Mary's a very gracious woman. She certainly did not need to do this, but I said with a script I really did not think she would do it Uh, we met for lunch. Uh, Schwab's pharmacy Famous Schwab's it was very classic. She said she would do it. I was in shock. She did the movie She saves it from being never released. Um, and you had watched her and like I imagine like Hollywood Boulevard Hollywood was my favorite movie vote. Yeah, do you think that you gravitate towards the movie Hollywood Boulevard because you grew up in? um No, actually when I was 18 they screened it in film school. We had to sit through all these boring prerequisite movies uh for tempkin 39 steps and Quality and I was like yawning through these things and the teacher showed hoggable of art as a joke the last day of class and Everyone laughed at the movie. I was I mean the minute I saw that film and it was shot in like a week for 25 grand I instantly that was type of fun. They're collecting were like this is it's sort of justified how you You said this is I found my people. This is yeah, I mean, I knew a big budget film was never really going to be an opportunity I just remember looking at this one. This is something I could do. Right. So you so you make blood theater Um people are telling you to cut it to 10 minutes. So what do you do next? How do you um? Unlike everyone else I went to film school with I knew how to get a studio drive-on pass with all the major studios So um I submitted the film it was screened by like 30 different places Um, I mean I'd be laughed at at school and at the end of class. I would drive a Warner Brothers Or drive a toy century box or pair that's you're the one actually on a studio. Yeah, I mean it was fun I mean people in school were not my audience. Um, I mean it did not get a major distributor But it got you know, got released to go down on the video. Um, did it ever play theatrical? Did you do a screen? No, I mean like two years ago. You screen it for the first right right right? Um But most importantly is uh blood theater got me my second film Right, so um by 23. I had a second film by 25. I made hobgobms and I was a working director That's pretty good. I'm pretty good in um One of the show you wrote down here was real people you have the best story about that Um Yeah, one of the ways I learned how to get studio drive on passes when I was in high school. Um I don't know why I seem to have an industry job at 17. Um, why not you're here I was doing these rocky horror conventions. Um And the last one was a conjunction with 20th century fox remote shock treat notes is rocky over sequel And um real people actually uh showed up and taped the final convention So I mean I look back on the tape today and I mean it's this massive Hotel in Anaheim with like 300 people and I'm looking at that and going Wasn't high school and I was putting these things right right? It's almost now. I did. I mean Whenever someone at a young age accomplishes big things. It's impressive. But at the same time, uh, you sort of have to be Not know enough about the world to take on something like like that in the first place to know that You know, if you if you almost know too much you would already discount even trying to do that There's this well human being couldn't do this, but when you're 17 18, you know 2023 You're like, yeah Oh, yeah, I could totally handle that because you you haven't ever failed doing it sort of so it's so it's sort of a double-edged sword There on on attempting to do that sort of stuff. So are you actually in the segment? Can you see yourself in there? Um? I hated being in front of the camera They only interviewed me for like a minute or two and unfortunately, I'm not in it which I didn't really want to be in it. So worked out. Um But I mean you look at the convention. I mean It was the largest of the four was the final one of this of the ones I did But I remember looking back in it. It was like it was definitely a scope I mean, I don't really remember being that large, right? Kind of used to go see rocky horror and um, I was never hugely into rocky horror I've seen it a total of nine times never twice in the same theater right right right so you're getting these sort of promotional jobs to get the To get the passes on the studio a lot or specifically or just to work in the industry or just to have a job and have some pocket money as a teenager Um For some reason I was just in a major hurry to get into the business And I just looked at every opportunity from writing scripts while I was in high school You know to promoting somebody for Fox. These are just opportunities to kind of be in the business on some level and you can't really dispute that I wasn't Right. Right. Right. So you're just getting your in and so Around uh, when was the first place academy? It was 25 years ago. So that would be 89. It was the first time that I made it Um So that was that was the movie. I think that I I first heard of your stuff from Um, because I started on usa up all night, which uh, was that the first place it was really shown um Playboy, I'm not sure um Without ever screening it. They wanted the first vice academy playboy. Do yeah, um, I had a feeling because gingerlin was in it They thought it was Um, actually going to deliver a little more softcore thrills, which was not made for that station Right. Um, I don't think they were they got particularly good ratings for them, but um They actually beat usa network to the punch but usa network when they saw the movie They instantly grabbed it and they were really the ones who um pushed me into doing all the sequels That's not complaining. So did you shop it to usa or um Because you produced that completely independently on your own. Um, I'm trying to remember some someone else some other distributor I knew the place that had hobgobbs. That wasn't paying me That's one in a series um They actually were the first ones to sell something to usa network and I was floored at the price they got from it And I knew if I went through them, I would never see any of the money And I was very fearless at just calling places blindly and i'm not caring. So what do you have to lose? Um I mean most people don't really I remember this one of my favorite jokes I used to play in film school students It's like you shoot a feature you want a distributor to look at it You call them up. What department do you ask for? Nobody ever knows the answer. It's called acquisitions Um, yeah, I called usa network. I mean, I certainly had no problem making these calls blindly um Submitted the film on it. Yeah, they grabbed it really clip it. So they are this in usa network up all night Uh, we're placed to show called night flight, which I absolutely love which was a very strange sort of uh, mishmash of clips and new segments and music videos and Documentaries and short animated films and usa up all night started in 87 It would be from 11 p.m on Friday and Saturday till five in the morning It would pick up a lot of uh b movies that you'd see a lot of horror movies Um, and it was sort of a national scale version of what had been going on locally in a lot of different areas So I imagine you watched Elvira when it was on here in l.a She is she was sort of the big horror host in the in the early 80s up through the ages where she went national Was that did you used to watch a lot of these late night horror and sort of tv shows when they were on is that where you I mean you saw a lot of these things theatrically, but I imagine that would have been the end for some of the more obscure stuff I was set out really bad movies. Um, my personal favorite was still robo monster robo monster. I mean robo khj and ktla I'm like, I think the films public domain that thing it was always on Did you recognize like brought like uh was it a bronson canyon and stuff at all in those movies? You can't miss bronson. Yeah, so there's like one cave that appears in once you've seen batman You'll know bronson canyon for like was it strangely? I did a bronson canyon Yeah, I know what's gonna say was a strange living in this area big huge for the batman and robot monster And now you know there's ronson canyon. There's like the very very recognizable part of this tv show in this movie or is it something You just sort of take for granted. It's being there ronson cave is so small when you actually go there I remember it was more this puzzle men of how did they fit the batmobile in this cave right it the cave It's like this it's probably the size of like double of an average person's living room Right. It's I mean you could it's like a two-car garage with maybe a rear end. It is really small Right, right. So um just like the audiences for the range really I mean it looks really large on film because I guess the hill is large and there's a the canyon behind it But the actual cave itself. I mean you could not get a truck in there So do you think seeing things like that made you realize that with things like vice academy You know, I can make a small movie that looks a lot bigger Like I I realized that there there are tricks now, you know, this cave looks like it's the bat cave But it's actually very tiny So, you know that makes it more accessible and more, you know, it makes you feel like you have more of an ability to make something that Really looks real with um with having much smaller resources um I think most of the production value in my film it's again a level of fearlessness of I learned when I was in film so because everyone else would get a permit when they shot their movies and to me getting a permit It's not it's that real filmmaking. It has a safety net There's something about parking a van to block a full view of a building setting all the camera equipment up behind it I never called it gorilla filmmaking. I'm not really sure where that term comes from because I wasn't at war with anyone The particular term I like to use I called it hit and run filmmaking, right? Which is literally Showing up somewhere you do something really quick almost like a hit run accident You pile every one of the van and you get the hell out of every one sees, right? Did you ever get caught doing that um? I looked like I felt I looked like I was in high so I was 35. So you could pull off Oh, yeah, I mean the other police would um talk with me and I spoke my way around getting shut down almost every time fire department Right, so copies of your fire department will shut you down So Vice Academy airs on usa up all night and they showed a lot of movies But for some reason that movie Became almost the signature usa up all night movie It seemed to air more than only other movies and get a lot more of a reaction. It was my my sense of it I don't know that vice academy Only because they told me this and I I mean based on when I would do renewals and sequels Vice Academy was their highest rated movie of all time on up all night. Yeah, a typical film on up all night They would license it for two years It would debut with like a 1.3 1.4 rating the first rerun I would drop to a point nine then after that it would drop like a five And they wouldn't bother renewing it vice academies. They were their only films They debuted at 2.3 2.4 nothing they had nothing that would break it to right first rerun The films would still get 1.8 1.9 5th rerun. They would still get 1.7 They said they they they had no other film that could do that Right, so they renewed those films for seven years Oh, yeah, I mean they aired all the time and they would do marathons I mean they would do them all night and you you shared an interesting end up with me When you made the first vice academy you it was on entertainment tonight Yeah, I didn't even know um Even vice academy too. They never showed anything what they mentioned the day it came out But the first vice academy some other Film debuted on video the same day. I think it was the abyss and they were showing a flip And then I hear the vice academy theme and I don't they just segued into um There's mary hard talking about vice academies out on vhs today and they're showing footage. Did you do lanae? And I was I don't know how it's they pulled it off or why they Someone to work there was a fan. I was definitely thrilled. So you stayed up that night so you could take the uh, yeah, I haven't I would I would love to have a really good Copy of this, but I have like a really bad he was on cbs Which an la is channel 2 which if back in the days of antenna tv the lower numbers got the worst reception Right. So I think it wasn't on fox on leaven always looked good when you taped them seven wasn't bad too I always looked bad. It was the opposite uh where I was where the the higher the station the worse it would be So yeah, um, I don't have a good tape of it, but I definitely have a tape you had a bcr very early you said Yeah, I had a bcr in 70s. I mean, that's very did you tape a lot of stuff Yeah, you watch them did you do that because you you really like the shows or are you trying to learn from them? I'm still in high school. Um It's hard to say. I mean when I was a senior in high school, I was kind of shooting when I consider my first movie It's something I will never put as a DVD bonus Um neither the loving dad. It's a parody about bookers who return to life and rape the living It's so shardah hollywood's Forever cemetery where we got thrown out of didn't stop me from going back. Um So, yeah, I mean I was I mean I knew in my own level. I was kind of making my own films I don't know if I really knew where they were going to be going at that point, but Um, I did like having a v-star yet did give me an opportunity to play with editing I had a second vcr with a heat as you do deck to decks. Oh, yeah, make your own stuff Uh, which is unusual at the time. Absolutely. And so vice-cademy starts airing the first one airs It's doing very very well. So usa basically said make us a sequel um I just done mark for murder, which was my only film to play theatrically overseas my biggest budget film And I was really waiting for, you know, bigger films to come my way And I do have this theory if by your third movie you haven't done a big budget. It's never gonna happen Okay, so I kind of knew um You had five films done by then So, um I actually had a script of hobgoblins too at the time And hobgoblins to this day of any film I've made it sold to more territories overseas. It's I feel like 55 Um people laugh at the movie. It was a very successful film. It was first made Um on tv when I was first met or did it play? No, it wasn't television. It was most it was um Up until the first vice-academy the primary market for films in that era with overseas. Okay, um Did you ever travel and see them play in other countries or I didn't I did have an opportunity to go to Japan for the um I guess the debut of vice academy I wasn't gonna go but first of all there wasn't pay there wasn't an interpreter. There wasn't a tour guide Sounds scary and it was literally I would get off the plane have to find a video store Make an appearance go to a couple other video stores get back on the plane and come home Yeah, that doesn't sound like how worth it I kind of said, you know, maybe if there's an extra day or I had an interpreter, but yeah If you're flying 48 hours on a plane, maybe you spend a little time there. So Basically every year usa network would say do another one for six years I was probably the first one was much more their idea um It wouldn't actually become concrete for another year or two But by the time I did the second vice academy the remainder of the films I would do It didn't matter what I would write or pitch They'd always wait for me to stop talking and this wasn't just usa was every distributor and say you have another vice academy Right, so I wasn't planning to make six of them. It was kind of I mean when I tried branching out. Um, I did good girls don't either bikini movie, which Under the title bikini academy. I was trying to make another vice academy clone that would last for a while Um, they just wanted vice academy sequels. So I kind of just stopped writing other movies for a while They want that's what you'll give them and and vice academy almost sort of became the closest thing to a television series I mean it was I thought it was a series. Yeah, you thought of it as a tv. So you're charlie's angels basically And so after the sixth one. Did you just feel like you were Tapped out or you've done everything you could do with it. I had a script for a seventh one. Um Much like most tv shows when you make too many sequels There's always a joke of you know, how many seasons should a show have been on It's always one less than it actually had right right the same thing when you make too many sequels vice academy Five was the last one that really had the fuel of the earlier ones I got most of the cast back for six six didn't have the energy of the other films. Okay. Um These films are getting made less than a year apart by that point that um I think it was three and four or four and five But we would go back to the same locations and our tape marks in the last film was still more still there Right. Yeah, so that's an indicator. Maybe we should take a little time between these if we wanted to have something Um that you could actually really get into and do you find that? Most people mostly know you from the vice academy movies from from the usa earrings or is it probably hobgoblins? Always vice academy for years and hobgoblins the last 10 years is kind of Surpassed vice academy. So hobgoblins is it was it was very popular overseas when it first came What would you do that 87? Yeah, um And then it was sort of rediscovered through mr. Science theater for better or worse as much as people laugh They just renewed the film for far away. Right. Right. Right. Um, so I mean you're you're laughing sort of all the way Through the bank with it. But um, I imagine that was probably sort of, you know Not your preferred method of it. That's that movie airing But do you find that people? Discovered it in a way because we know vire would show movies that were like robot monster She would do these interjections and cut into them and you probably still enjoyed the movie Uh, I sometimes would find it annoying as much as I love DelVire. I would kind of be like, I'm watching this movie stop doing this Um, you know, and there are probably people I imagine who feel that way about hobgoblins to the to the point where was that? Would feel the sequel that sort of renewed interest? Um, of course, I mean hobgoblins too. I it was pretty much a film that was never going to get made And you know, you do so many vice academies that you've beaten that dead horse. That's like, what other sequel cow do I have? Right. Um The story, I'm always amazed that so many people Somehow know that I submitted hobgoblins to Mr. Science theater And the actual event was um, USA Network required sci-fi channel which starting in the sixth or seventh year of Mr. Science theater Yeah, um, it moved from comedy central over to sci-fi. So um USA up all night was kind of being phased out Yeah, finally ended in 97 the same year that that is which's over to sci-fi for so they had actually submitted all of my films to the writers of best brains for mr. Science theater um, because they have the rights and they own both stations right and Um, no, I wasn't bothered. I mean USA Network made fun of my movies It was kind of my films lend themselves, you know, people making jokes while they're airing So I kind of knew what it was in the beginning Um, then writers of best brains contacted me and they said well, these films are too sexual for us What else do you have and I knew from the beginning they would want hobgoblins. I made them sit through everything else. I gave them blood theater Visitance, which was the one I really really wanted them to take for us to potentially campy and I still have all the rejection letters and they finally says there are anything else you have and you know, I cringe and I sent them hobgoblins Because I was was that your favorite movie? No, I was my least favorite movie I'm so I was embarrassed the filming for mr. Science theater. I heard it right? Ons not my favorite movie was never on my director's free. So, so I knew that was the one they would take because it's so bad Right. So that's kind of why you're probably held on. They you know, they grabbed it I mean they watched and they they licensed that film in 20 hours So the three companies too sexual vice-academy's too sexual uh for best brains but not sexual enough for playable It's sort of uh Yeah, um the oddly I think I hold the record of hobgoblins, which would probably get a pg rating They had to clip seven or eight minutes of raunchy dialogue raunchy dial for I mean If you watch the film and watch the mr. Science theater broadcast I mean every third line is so offensive. It's clipped from the movie Right, right. What color are the rugs here? Daffy you're good at being under the tables the same colors the carpet burns on my knees I mean jokes like that were just whole one effort. Those are very sitcomy Joe I mean, they got three company type double entendre jokes They're not that much more extreme than the stuff that would have aired on this company They really bitched about how much he the film was I remember when I was watching it I figured out by 10 or 15 minutes in I could guess which jokes were going to be cut Right and I remember thinking what joke do I know is going to not make it sure enough like Amy's terrified of motorcycles. She won't write on one like and she pauses and I'm thinking they won't let her say the next line They clipped it. It's like yeah, um, what the exact order Uh writing on motorcycles like sitting on the world's largest vibrator. What did they come? Oh, I can imagine that would be out of there so so that was Your films are sort of discovered on tv and and sort of the same way you discovered a lot of these movies on tv And did you ever have a desire to try and write for television? After that or was it kind of like it's just um I had such an odd niche and I mean tv is much more writing by assembly. Not that I weren't like to um It's kind of once you've done a lot of low budget features Your opportunities are very limited right? um I mean as much as I wanted to branch out other types of films there certainly was never much interest for them Right, but that's also the genre that you enjoy And so what do you watch now? Are there shows that you watch now or the things that you enjoy? um Kind of much more than watching tv days of stuff. Yeah, yeah, I am the same way I have tough time catching up on current things Uh, it's odd too. There doesn't seem to be as many opportunities like usa up all night or even a c3k for people to sort of discover these lower budget or independent films now So I wonder You know, what do you think is the future of those sorts of movies that like the movies you make or is it the internet? Is it? um You know sort of crowdsourcing or you know, maybe you don't know The future unfortunately is probably a lot of piracy. Um, I spend a couple hours every week having to get um You know, particularly youtube um Looking for bootlegs in my films, you know, I don't care if people upload 10 minutes of them Even if you break the film into nine chapters I don't like when people upload the entire movie in one piece because um It is copyright infringement those are people who will not be paying to watch it on amazon or itunes So it it sounds harmless. I don't know if those people are really getting a financial gain by uploading my films particularly hobgoblins Um, well, they're lumping these movies. They probably look at big studios and say, oh, there's not a one guy That made this movie is not affecting them, which is now obviously not the case with your stuff Hobgoblins too. This one. I mean, I can't even name a precedent, but uh 24 hours after it came out on dvd It was uploaded for free viewing on 35 websites. So I remember that as like full-time job And those places won't take it down. I mean I just remember the day after it came out of going online to look for reviews And I could not believe how many websites it was already on geez So you had an amazing story too. I should mention where you're the first person I've talked to in all the episodes ever quoted of this That's actually ever written a tv guide crossword Yes, I did um I was 18 bored out of my mind in screenwriting class as many of my classes in la city college work um For some reason I I don't know why I had a piece of graph paper on me. Maybe I was planning it Um, I sat down and figured hmm while this teacher is boring me for an hour I wonder if I could do a tv guide crossword puzzle and I remember counting how many squares I was across and I don't know why I somehow figured out you start them from the middle not from the ends I remember putting a really long word across and it's a difficult skill for something you've never done before I did it one hour. It was an action. I mean there are people who You know are famous crossword writers and have their and you just kind of banged it out Did you do the crossword puzzles every week yourself or never? No, you've never done them You're just like, uh, I don't like crossword. I'll just see if I can just do it My mother used to do that when I find them really Canadian Right, so you just write this out and then you said maybe I'll just send it to tv guide. Why not? Um I was so fearless much like I approached very worn off to do my first film I you know, I just did stuff and I remember sending it in never heard anything for like six months So I didn't even really think about it and I did save a copy of the original just so I had it And just getting a check in the mail for it that we published here They didn't say what date it was going to be out and I had a look at tv guide every week for like a couple months and I found it That's amazing. So it's almost redemption for the trolley's angels incident. You're uh, you're yeah Not a great consolation, but you're all $70 like all $70 for that in there best investment from film school I ever got did you ever make bets with who would be like, I bet I can solve this puzzle in five minutes I never did them. Um, my mother used to do them. So I have to never really did you do that one? Um, it was funny because I had told her for months to look for it. I told her what words were in it I remember I think one down was order for male BLT because I would remember it that way, right? Um She did it and completely missed it and some friend of mine said isn't it yours? It's in this week and I flipped it sure enough There it was so yeah, it just I mean she said that was a difficult one. It's like, yeah, you should I told her to look for it Yeah, that's amazing. Um, this is unprecedented. Yes. We're looking at it right now I'll take some pictures of it for people for the for the tumbler Uh, and finally the way I end every episode rick is, uh, to you guys not just informative. It's opinionated It cheers and it's yours. So if you were to have a a cheer and a jeer for television, uh, what would they be? Um, probably my jeer would be that Why isn't there a show to replace usa is up all night? I mean I get so much email online of people of like of the vice academy films ever coming back on I mean you would say it was a great niche for what it was The show never lagged in ratings. It was just usa network was sold a couple times in one year I think seagrams was the one purchase And they were trying to change their format of what they were viewing and airing So they didn't renew up all night But um, I remember cringing at the moment because they had three years left on my contracts and one by one made a lapse And usa went from the number one basic rated cable Networked in number 10. So yeah, I mean a lot of them become a lot more faceless like you had joe bob braze monster vision You had uh usa used to air that show real wild cinema that showed a lot of this something weird stuff And I think that as we've gotten further into the 21st century The stations almost have less of an identity, but at the same time have very niche You know usas like the the long order network, you know, it doesn't they don't have and they also know the face of networks anymore They don't have people host things. It's almost like it's less and less human as time goes on So I would like to I would agree with that I would love to see more shows like that Oh, my other jeer would be Sci-fi channel for just getting stuck on those really bad as sila mochbuster monster movies Yeah, those films are unwatchable with their bad CGI and has been actors that even I would hesitate to use And my but I mean people watch them. I mean that I remember which one like Sharknado Sharknado is actually some of classic, but i don't know Debbie Gibson and Tiffany. Oh, yes sharp. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, they're You know, they have so much premise One on the title. I remember thinking this will be entertaining and they're unwatchable, right? It's all sizzle mistake there. It's like selling the movie poster and not making an actual movie They're all green screen where I mean no matter where they are those actors are in a studio and it's like jate Why don't we use the same four second shot of a of a fish swimming towards the camera every 10 seconds? Right, right. I mean, they're I don't know it just They're the charm those movies didn't they're knocking those things out really quickly. It's like a factory I think that you're not getting um sort of an individual person's vision You're not getting one person who says I want to make a movie that you know Whether it be silly whether it be fun whether it be a bee movie or a horror movie or a cult independent movie It's still my vision and I feel like those sci-fi movies They actually do have a formula. They say we need this to happen every couple minutes Uh, give us a snappy name and then we don't care what else happens and it's done by committee and it's done by uh, it's it's sort of a mcdonald's version Of junk food you could go to an independent mom and pop Greasy spoon and it's gonna have more charm than a mcdonald's who sort of hammering this stuff out with sort of no heart to it I did particularly enjoy both anzering and terra reeds comments of Yeah, you can't expect to see me back in shark dado too. Like yeah, what else was on your play? Right? Sorry. I was really that was never in doubt Never in doubt. Well, rick. Thank you so much for taking the time to do the show. I really appreciate it. Thank you Talk And there you have it that was rick sloane film director archie enthusiast and crossword puzzle writer rick sloane Really fun episode. What an interesting guy. Definitely if you've never seen any of his movies definitely check them. I'll pick up the dvds I also always enjoy his commentary tracks. They're always highly entertaining and informative You'll definitely enjoy them as much as I do. I guarantee you so as always please continue to like us on facebook email me at can And I can read calm. Let me know what you think of the shows if you have any ideas for the shows or requests And go to our facebook page as I mentioned. That's face facebook tv guidance counselor Go to the tumbler any place that you want to really that you can find out about the show rate the show review the show And we'll see you again next week on wednesday for tv guidance counselor *Music*