TV Guidance Counselor
TV Guidance Counselor Episode 25: Melanie Chartoff
We have a TV. No, I just like to read the TV guide. Read the TV guide. Don't need a TV. Hello and welcome to TV Guidance Counselor. It is Wednesday. It is time for an all-new episode of TV Guidance Counselor. I am Ken Reed, as always. I am your TV Guidance Counselor, and I'm very excited about this episode this week. My guest this week is Melanie Chardoff, who most of the listeners from our show probably know as Ms. Muso from Parker Lewis Can't Lose, one of my favorite shows growing up, but she's been in a million things. She continues to be in a ton of stuff. She was in Fridays. She's in the infamous Andy Kaufman fight sketch. You may know her from that. She's an incredibly funny writer. She's very, very smart. She's a great, great person. And I loved recording this episode when I was out in Los Angeles. I think you'll really enjoy listening to it. Just a side note, I found this very amusing. Melanie is very, very nice, and she's very funny. And when I showed up to record this episode, there were some workmen outside digging a very big, very loud hole in the street. And Melanie has a real sense of authority about her and was able to somehow convince these workmen to stop working their municipal job for an hour so we could record this episode and did it no time flat. I was very impressed. I really enjoyed talking to her. So I think you'll enjoy this episode. Sit back and listen to TV guidance counselor with my guest, Melanie Charlott. Melanie Charlott, this is great honor to speak to you. Oh, and in honor to speak to you, I've learned so much listening to your prior podcast. Thank you. In fact, I'm quite intimidated. Oh, really? No, it's I'm mostly wrong. I just make up all this stuff. They're not. You sound like you know what you're talking about. It's all about confidence. It's all about confidence. And so we were chatting a little bit before. And I've given Melanie some some TV guys and she was kind of flipping through and trying to remember some of the shows that you watched growing up. And you grew up in Connecticut in New Haven. In New Haven, home of Connecticut Bandstand, which was a cheap knockoff. They had their own American Bandstand. Really? Yeah. And we mostly did street dancing. I mean, I was taught to dance by black boys basically. Well, that's who you want to teach you how to dance. Yeah, we did a lot of dances that didn't make it to American Bandstand till some years later. We were ghetto. Really? So you were like, we're way ahead of this curve. Yeah, we had like mashed potatoes, way ahead. Oh, nice. What to see. Wow. So when you saw it on those, you're like, they're, why are they so far behind? Yeah. Why are they so far behind? But they were still our idols. Yeah. They were so wholesome. And they were. That was on every day, correct? Or it was just Saturday? I don't know. I thought American Bandstand, well, our Connecticut Bandstand was on every day. Every day, yes. I think the local ones would be on every day. I after school and then American Bandstand, I believe, was just Saturdays. Yes. And also New Haven's the home of the hamburger was invented there, I think. Is that true? I think so. I think the white castle is. Yeah, there's some, there's some place that they invented that claims to have invented the hamburger that I remember going to. Well, we also had the best hot dogs on the eastern seaborn. They were cut in half and fried both sides. Jimmy's Shoreline hot dogs. Oh, nice. Savon Rock was one of the first amusement parks in the country. Okay. It was right near my house. Did you go there frequently? Oh, often you could get all manner of things stuck on your foot. Very nice amusement park. They didn't have a anti-litering campaign. Oh, yeah. It's a different time then. People just discarded everything. The world cleanliness would last forever that the air and water would just filter us forever. Yeah. Well, it had for so long. Why wouldn't it now? We can't blast them. We never imagined this kind of saturation. Yes, it's true. It's true. So, your New Haven's, what, two, two hours, three hours from New York? Better now or a half. Oh, not that far. I think dry fast. So, did you go to New York frequently when you were growing up? Not until I was allowed to go. I could take the bus to New Haven to do bandstand and to my go-go girl jobs. You know, I was a go-go girl for Phil Spector. You didn't mention that. How did that happen? Well, I guess I was seen at a sock hop or dancing in Connecticut bandstand and some of his black girl acts wanted to cross over. Right. So, the way he did that was by hiring two very wholesome go-a-ship white dancers. Right. And they're like, if they're hanging out with them, they must be okay. Yeah, blonde and a brunette. I was the brunette. And we had our white French dresses and our white courage boots. And we danced in, and roped off little cages behind the Ronets, the crystals. On television? No, this was for mixers at Yale. Okay. Okay. And this is when he had just recently married Ronnie. Ronnie Spector. And it was just a happening time. And then I was asked to dance with Gary Lewis and the playboys at the Peppermint Lounge, but I was not allowed to take the train until I was 16. So, how did you get to the Peppermint Lounge? I didn't go. Oh, you had to say no. I wasn't allowed. Oh, that was 20 hours an hour, they were paid. That's pretty good. Sure beat the babysitting. Yeah. Let me tell you. You could even maybe take the kids along and get the double babysitting money and the go-go dancer money. Yeah, but they couldn't stay up that way. Yeah, that's true. So, that was sort of my start as a performer. I was 14. That's quite a start. I know. Yeah. It was really fun. And how did your parents react to that? I mean, how did you approach them and be like Phil Spector asking to dance in a go-go cage? I don't think they knew who he was. Right, right. He had an unarnished, untarnished reputation. He was just a young happening Jewish man, a short Jewish man with big ambitions in those days. And the young woman whom I danced with was very, you know, upstanding. She was with a modeling agency. And my father began to see after his initial resistance that actually I could make some money. Right, right. And so, his resistance dissipated as the money began to come in. Right. That's generally how the world works, I think. Yes. It didn't take me seriously until then. Right, right. Also, my father was such an intro. Oh, no. My father was such a devotee of television. The moment it was invented, I think he had one. And that's very unusual. So, you always had a television in your house your whole life as far as you can remember? Most, yeah, I can't remember not having one. The color of television came much later after I left. Right. But I think it wasn't until he actually saw me inside that box that he began to pay attention to me. You respected you? That is very interesting. So, I spent the rest of my life trying to get into that box as often as I could. Just to see your dad. What was the first thing? We'll get back to some of the things you might have watched with him when you were a kid, but what was the first thing that he watched you on? I think Connecticut fans stand. It was Connecticut fans stand. Yeah. And was he sort of bragging about it to everybody and my daughters on TV? I'm not sure. I don't think he really began to brag until I had a series and then he really, you know, began to call as they say in Yiddish about my abilities and my ability to make a living. And was that be Fridays? That was the first regular series? Um, I was on soap opera in New York. Okay. I did front ones, all my children, one life to live. While I was in college, I was able to commute into New York City and get some get my after card, which was a very big deal. Right. And audition for summer stock and do musicals and such. Right. But I think that was the first time he took me seriously. I was on daytime television, but he made sure to watch it. This is a real thing now. Yeah. If he's definitely, this is not local Connecticut fans stand as great as that is. Yes. But I was playing myself on Connecticut fans stand. I was playing a character. Right. On the doctors. I played a nurse. Oh, these are all dramas. Yes. The soap operas were very dramatic. And you're you're obviously an amazing comedic actress and mostly known for comedies. So was it or you always drawn drawn to comedy and it was odd to do the dramas first or you kind of just fell into that. I wanted to do it all, but I seem to have a special aptitude for comedy because that was the way my sister and I could keep my parents from quarreling. Oh, got you. You get a good laugh. You could decoy draw fire. Yes. Then they wouldn't be yelling at one another. Yes. And so love and laughter became very correlated in my household. If you could make them laugh, they seemed to like you a lot. Yes. Well, that's I think that's a very common theme I hear from comedians, myself included. Yes. That it's a great tension breaker. It was a great distraction for families and it's yeah. So it's sort of just a calming presence for everybody. Yes. So that kind of compulsivity to be funny is what drove me, you know, to be a performer. I think without that compulsivity and that childhood damage, I might not have made it. Yeah. Oh, no. I think that that's also true for many of us who do this. Absolutely. It's all of the skills you develop are survival skills. Absolutely. And you have one just one sister going up. I have a younger sister. I'll be seeing her at my wedding. I'm getting married. Congratulations. Yes. Congratulations. I forgot to do that until just very recently. Yeah. Sometimes you forget and it's like leaving the iron on at home. You know, you're like, I got to go back and do that. But for me, it's like kind of producing and starring in a Broadway show. Only you have a long run of the play contract. You know, it's actually going to run for a long, long time. Exactly. You got to make sure the book's very good. Yeah. Exactly. The book is really good. Yeah. You don't want to close opening night on that. No. So you and your sister would would watch stuff almost exclusively with your dad? Was it kind of a whole family thing? We were allowed some after school watching. I remember the Mickey Mouse Club being very pivotal in my development. Right. Within that. And that wasn't as appealing to me as Darlene. Okay. She was an actress and she actually starred in one of the little dramas that they did within. Yes. The Mouse Catier's echelons. Yeah. They would have these serialized sort of short form dramas and comedies throughout the week. Yes. And she did one called Corky and White Shadow. Okay. Which was about a girl and her dog. Right. And I loved the story and I began to see that she who was such a wonderful singer, dancer, performer could actually also be an actress. Right. So I feel like Darlene, bless her ears, was a very big influence on me and me. You can do all these things. Yeah. You don't have to just pick one of these things. Yeah. Because you also, I remember there's a clip on Herms. You were actually singing on Merv Griffin. That's right. Yes. So you, did you ever record anything or did you just do a lot of stage shows? I'm sorry, stage shows and albums. I have several albums on which I am listed. And, you know, when I started doing television, there isn't much correlation, unfortunately, unless you're doing variety with singing and acting. Right. Right. Right. And in New York, you can do it all. Right. In Los Angeles, when I came out here, I was not taken as seriously because I had done musicals. Really? It was considered a more totemic kind of acting. It was not considered too big and it was not, it was not the kind of television acting that they wanted. That's what they thought. But I had started in television with soap and stuff. So I was able to reform my abilities and bring them down to a consumable level. Right. It's interesting that they think just because you can only do one. Like, this is your acting style and that's it. You definitely cannot adjust for other forms. Well, we all tend to typecast. Even, you know, if you have a plumber that's really good at some kind of toilet, you probably won't hire them to do, you know, your electricity. Right. Right. That's true. To cliché and bomb people into little categories. Well, I mean, you often, a lot of your roles, and especially guest starring roles, and obviously on Parker Lewis, but you often play sort of authority figures or doctors or lawyers or people in these sort of positions. And did that just sort of happen? Or do you sort of gravitate those kinds of roles or such as these? Yes. I don't know. I have a fast mouth, you know. So I think that that's kind of why because I handle language well. Right. And I wasn't blonde or big bosomed enough really to book it. You know, they tried to cast me as the straight attractive woman in a couple of movies, but I was never as successful at that. Didn't work for you. Did you feel uncomfortable in that role? Yeah, I didn't serve my compulsivity. Right. Right. You know, I, you know, to beat that passive and that attractive and alluring just was not in my Bailey book. Yeah. Yeah, I could see that. I could see what is a character. Right. Right. But it's a dumb blonde or something. Right. But it would be a little more broad than probably, you know, more of a sketch thing than like a, you know, say a Friday sketch, then a full movie or something. It'd be harder to stay in that room. Yeah. It'd be kind of a waste of my my energy, I think. Yeah. Yeah. No, I would agree. I mean, you're great in those roles. It's just it was always interesting how like a new heart you had a reoccurring role as a psychiatrist. That's right. Which I was actually talking to Tom Snyder, not the TV host, but Tom Snyder who produced Dr. Katz, which Jonathan Katz. Oh, wonderful show. And one of his favorite, his favorite lines in his sitcom of all time is from a scene that you're in from Newhart with Peter Scallari. Right. And I believe you're saying something about I, I can't continue our sessions because of my feelings for you. Yeah. And he goes. Oh, I sit because of my feelings. Did you mean you don't like me? He says, you hate me? And you see very much the opposite. And he goes, I hate you. Yes. Yeah. Brilliant. That's his that's it's great to work with. I love Peter. He's amazing. He's great in everything. And he I think he does a lot of directing now on stage. And I saw him resurface on girls. Doesn't he? Yes, I think he was on that recently too. Yeah. So you, you're some of your favorite shows that you'd mentioned, your dad watched a ton of Westerns. Loved the Westerns. But you never got that into them? Well, I like James Garner. I love those black haired handsome guys. Yes. We had a sense of humor. Right. Hence my, you know, my proclivity for soupy sales. Right. Steve Allen. Any man with black hair and wit and Garner seemed to be the wittiest of those. Oh, yes. He was like a classic smart ass character. It just he was the most and I mean, he was great. And he basically played similar roles in all of the kind of things he was in. Why not? He's such a great personality. He really was great at that. And I remember my father loved Bonanza. And I liked Michael Landon. So I would watch it because he was handsome. Yeah. And then he also watched the rebel with Nick Adams. Oh, the rebel? Johnny Yuma. Then that's a, that was a Western as well. That was another one of those cowboy slot things in that and he watched Saint Grey Theatre. Okay. These are anthologies for your time, of course. But that's what we were chatting a little bit before about how the anthology is sort of a lost form now, which is interesting. I wonder sort of web videos have sort of replaced that where people can do these shorts online. Maybe so short for the short attention span. Yes, exactly. The faster pace world that we live in now. And so you, you went to New York and the first jobs that you did were in soaps, as you mentioned. And then how did you go from New York out to Los Angeles? Because you do seem very, and I mean, this as a compliment, very East Coasty to me as a fellow New Englander. And so it seemed like you would stay in New York doing sort of stage things. Yeah. Well, I auditioned for Laffen in the way, the second generation of Laffen, or maybe the third, I don't know. It might have been. And my agent, William Morris, who had signed me while I was in an off-Broadway show, said, put some of your songs. I write these odd songs, kind of character songs. Put some of your songs together and go on it, Bud Friedman's, you know, improved love so that he can see you. So I wrote it and pulled together a number of songs and some patter between. And George Schlutter didn't hire me. The best advice he gave me was to tell me to dump the boyfriend I was swimming on. Well, okay. I mean, today I want to give you so much luck though. That was going to be over to that guy. Yeah, we'll get rid of that guy. But it led to Bud Friedman putting me on quite regularly. I was doing a Broadway show. And after the show, I'd topple over and Bud would put me on at late hours. So this would have been... You were a very few asha-new female stand-ups at the top. Oh, absolutely. I was way before Rita Ruttner, who I was in acting class with actually for many years. Really? We were both trying to be serious actors. If you want to see Rita be funny, you should have seen her do Blanche and Streetcar. Now, that was funny. I was a little sister. But we had Elaine Boosler and we had... She was a waitress there, I think, for a while, right? Yeah, she was a barkeeper. She was around... She was doing her act just as I was coming onto the scene. She was wonderful. So really the only sort of stand-ups that were somewhat established, that were playing their frequently, would be like Robert Klein or... And David Brenner and Freddie Prince. Oh, yes. Who hadn't got Chico and the Man yet, right? This was way before the All Hell broke loose for Freddie. That must have been a really interesting environment. Very exciting time. We had such gifted stand-ups there. But again, being a woman, I got a lot of attention because there were so very few of us. Right. And my delivery was much softer. Right. And I had a lot of music in my act. So I started getting flown to LA for pilots. Oh, wow. And I was offered an overall deal at Paramount ABC. They wanted to do a spin-off of Laverne and Shirley called Ralph Potsie and Maxine. Really? So I tested with those two guys and it didn't go. Right. But I just found myself getting little jobs here. I was on Wonder Woman. Yes. What was... Do you remember anything about that? I do. They needed a nogicom in each type. Okay. And I played her. I looked like I could really jump off of a horse. You know, I did the whole gymnast things. I'd been studying ballet, so I was really in shape. And Rick Springfield played my boyfriend. Wow. Henry Gibson kidnapped me after the Olympics to be on his Russian team. And Linda Carter rescued us. Henry Gibson, he was always playing evil foreigners. Yeah. He was just like, "Let's make him play this." He was way over the top. Yeah. But he was really delicious to hang out with. So here I was on location. You know, and I always felt like an attractive woman. But you know, next to Linda Carter, I felt like a thumb. I came up to about her breasts. Wow. I don't know. That's true. But yeah, I think she's sort of a human. Beautiful. Yes. So beautiful and statuesque. And anyway, Rick Springfield and I got to hang out this before his big hits. Yeah. He had just come over here from Australia and he had, prior to that done a cartoon show called Mission Magic that was about, oh, Filmation did it. We think you might have done some workforce super friends around that. Oh, I think I did one or two of them. It's haunted, maybe. Yes. You were a super friend. Yeah. When you were doing background stuff, I think it was. I think so. But it was a show that he was, he played a singing magician on an animated show called Mission Magic. And he did, he did the theme song and it was not a hit as probably not a surprise as it's not endearing. And then he did, before he got whatever soap opera he was doing in a hospital, I think he was like, and then started doing the music again. But that's very handsome. Yeah. His book's actually very good. He did an autobiography maybe a year ago, two years ago, that's pretty interesting. Oh, I'll have to get that. Yeah, it's pretty interesting. Am I in it? I don't think that you're in it. I don't know if he mentions Wonder Woman. He's forgotten me. He may have been like, if I write about Melanie, the whole buck will be about Melanie and people, you know, they'll pull the focus and the whole thing. So you started getting these sort of guest roles. And then what was the first? And then I started auditioning for Pilots and I did a couple, it didn't go. And then I auditioned for Fridays and I didn't get it. They hired one of the ABC executives wives. Oh, okay. And so I went into a deep depression because Larry David was on it. Oh yeah, that's fascinating. A lot of my stand-up buddies from New York and then suddenly they fired her and then just about to tape. And I got brought in and shoved into the ensemble. That must've been terrifying. It was, I mean, I was, I was already depressed. You know, it's in my depression. It was like I had to re-wrap and I could not. I tried to pull myself out. I didn't feel that funny. But Larry and Bruce were like my cousins. They were lovely. You already knew them anyway from the improv and from the works. So that must've made it a lot easier. It helped. I mean, they'd all been improvising together for a couple of weeks and they already had some ensemble chemistry. So I feigned an ensemble. Right, right, right. It did it very well. It was very noticeable. So, but I was somewhat set apart because I did the news. So I didn't have as much ensemble work with everybody doing my characters and stuff as I had hoped. Which is what you thought you were probably doing more like your stage act is what you thought you would get to do. And then you didn't quite. I didn't want to do my stage act. I wouldn't be one of the guys. Well, gotcha. Gotcha. So I was a good utility actress and I played straight woman a lot to Michael Richards. He and I worked really, really well together. Very contrasting. Yeah, we wrote a lot of stuff together. We got along really, really well. Was that the first show that you that people recognized you from? Yes, it was remarkable how quickly celebrity, you know, I was like the girl who's your all of a sudden and I was getting barrels of fan mail and invited to be on, you know, other shows. John Davidson had a show or Griffin had a show. I was on all the morning talk shows. I remember Oprah interviewing me. Really? It was one of those hotel setups where they rented the Century Plaza Hotel and they had a different morning show every room. Right. And you had to go from one room to the next. It's like speed dating. Morning Illinois or a morning. Speed dating. Family. Speed dating television. And she interviewed, viewed me for some Chicago morning show that she had. Because you were, in a lot of ways, for Fridays, you were sort of the face of that show for people. They sort of positioned you as the Chevy Chase for lack of a better analogy. Or the James. I had worked off Broadway in the proposition. She and I were in an improv musical together that came from Cambridge, actually, proposition. I think James from Cambridge originally. Yeah. Just terrific. And so here I was. Hello, Jane. We're doing the same thing she was, which we were resistant to. We really didn't want to clones at Night Live. It was the network's decision to do that. Yeah. And they were all definitely trying to get a piece of that Saturday Night Live pie. And even, even NBC itself, was trying to, when they bought, basically, I see TV and put it on Friday nights, which was opposite, you guys, for almost the whole run. And of course, they were on films, so they had a net. They could afford to make mistakes. Right. It wasn't. So you were just shooting it live? Totally live. But to me, it was like theater. Yeah. So you were probably more used to that. Yeah. We were used to covering errors when you're on stage. You have to. Right. If it's a flood view, just speckled over with something. And so from that, I think I got suddenly recognized. I'd call a 1-800 number to pay a bill. Right. And they'd say, "Hey, Melanie, love what you did." And it was like, "Wow, everybody knows me." So it's like from all to nothing. And just overnight. It was very freaky, a little bit freaky. And kind of actually, I didn't have any bad experiences until people started showing up on the lot. Like some guy, his name was Bill Ridley. So if I've, if I'm ever found dead, Bill Ridley did it. Bill Ridley did it. We know. He wrote me every week thinking we had a relationship, I guess, because when you look into the lens like a news gaster, I think they have a far more intimate access to it than they actually do. He actually showed up on the ABC lot with camera regalia and convinced the gate that he was a photographer there to shoot me. Oh, that's terrifying. They brought him right to me. And I turned around and he said, "Hey, I'm Bill Ridley." How are you doing? I was like, "Yeah." So I said, "Oh, we'll come and meet the writers." So I led him into the basement where all the writers were catacombed. Right. And I tried to get him off me. Right. And then they got stoned with him, apparently, and he stayed there for hours until they realized he was kind of crazy. It took them a while to realize he was crazy because he was so... Well, they're writers. Yeah. It'd be difficult to see not one of their own. They did get him out. But that was very threatening. And then, apparently, an attorney got my address from the DMV, showed up at my house with flowers, started harassing the head to threaten to have him disbarred. He would send me his depositions like... Look what I did. You know, Tom Goldstein versus big boy hamburgers, you know, how he did it. Hey, I'm pretty good. That's very terrifying. It was really scary. It's strange the way people watch TV. I mean, obviously, these people sound unhinged and a bit more severe than most people, but at the same time, and you may have experienced this when you were growing up and watching things like Mickey Mouse Club, it's a more intimate experience, generally, than, say, a movie because you're not going out to do it. It's not an event. It's in your home and it's every day. Yes. And so, people tend to remember people they saw on TV, I think, more the people than the stuff they did because they see them so frequently. At least the people can see you. I mean, so clearly, right there. And they can, you know, once they got DVRs, I'm sorry, video machines, they could freeze you in any of, you know, horrible position right here. You know, and suddenly you realize, oh, I have no control over my image. Which has to be terrifying. Like, there's something very scary about that. If you're really vain, it is really kind of terrifying. Yeah, or even just the, you know, being being sort of weaned on stage stuff where it's, you know, it's, you know, a couple of maybe thousand people, a huge difference. And once it's out in the air, it's gone. It's done. Yeah. And so, these things sort of last forever. Like the fact that you can look up some of the things you've done on YouTube now, and just see them like that on your phone at any time, it seems, you know, who would have thought that would have been the world that we live in now. And in some ways, it's probably cool to be able to go down and just look down. Do you ever watch that stuff still? On my mate, he had never known who I was. When I met my fiance, and he saw that I had been an actress, he did some research. And when he came to our second day, he was armed with more information about me than I wanted him to know. Yeah. So, it was kind of, and I didn't have that sort of information about him. So it took me, it took me a lot of attention. That's an unfair advantage. Yeah. And so, so you were doing Fridays, and then you started to, Fridays ended. But was there anyone that you, because Fridays had guest stars and a lot of musicians, was there anyone that you met on Fridays that maybe became in as a guest role that was something you used to watch or were really intimidated by or was one of the times you're really taken aback by getting something or what? As I mentioned to you, when I was in college, I didn't, and I went into theater. I was busy at night. So, I didn't really watch television all that much. So, I wasn't as familiar with television stars as I had been. However, Al Giro, who was one of our musical guests, blew me away. I had seen him in New York when I was a stand-up. I had come right from the Broadway stage out to Los Angeles. So, I didn't really know rock bands. I only know Broadway music. So, every week it was like a Golden Book Primer in rock acts. Yeah. And Fridays. I mean, we got to work with The Clash, The Boomtown Ranch, Bonnie Rae. And you just loved. Yeah. I mean, one of the things that Friday for To Do was carve itself out as sort of the more cutting-edge musical act show. So, there were some really amazing groups on that show, and it must have been a very exciting time with the forefront of this thing. Yeah, it was groundbreaking. And our director, John Moffat, sort of set the template for the types of MTV videos that came along later with all the handheld shooting from the drum point of view. Yep. And that was sort of, you know, imitated later. Did you know Andy Kaufman from The Improvital? I did. Okay. So, you did already know? Yeah. It's a nice Jewish guy. And when we're doing Fridays, he used to go to the Fairfax High School track with me so I could run at night. Right. And he'd keep me company. And he turned me on to macrobiotic food. Over and then. So, we hung out a lot. Sweet, sweet guy. It was really a shock. And I thought he really did go too far. On that in that sketch specifically, or just generally. Just about everything. With all the wrestling women. Yeah, I just think he turned everyone against him. Yeah. And that negative energy. I don't know if it had any influence on him. But, yeah, I mean, it was like he knew he had a time bomb. Yeah. Because he was meditating twice a day and eating macrobiotic food when he was in his 20s. He was way ahead. And it was almost like he knew there was like a time limit. He was more in touch with what was going on himself. He sort of knew internally that he was not, he had to be very self-protective. So he was like, let's just burn it out kind of. Maybe. Maybe. Or he just knew that he was not maybe gonna make it. I don't know. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. There were only three networks at the time. So obviously, there's millions and millions of people watching these shows. So you go from, you know, either pilots didn't get picked up or these guest roles, which were still large. But, you know, every week you're on the show for years and you're sort of the face of this show. And that was the time that you got Battle of the Network Stars. Oh, right. Battle of the Network Stars. Yeah. So how did that come about? Well, I had never seen it. It was a completely different genre. We fancied ourselves as extremely hip and above like normal television. We weren't off the spandex crowd. And I know that the kids, the guys on the show said, "Oh, don't do it." It's just so, I mean, it's a prime time. Right. But my manager said, you know, this show is not going to run forever. We had to break it to you. To start thinking about the future. You need to think about doing a mainstream kind of series. Right. So they talked me into it. And I had the thrill and delight of knocking Tom Selick into the water a couple times. Yes. Dunk-a-hunk kind of style with a baseball. And you're, so you're on the ABC team and your captain was Robert Yurick, I think, who's Spencer Rehire later. That's right. I don't think you guys won that one. Oh, I have no idea. I thought it was so much fun getting to fraternize with all these people. I had seen at events and occasionally on television until we had to play a touch football game. And we were all lining up facing each other. And suddenly they were like flaming nostrils flaring, really serious. I got like scared right off the finger. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because I wasn't working out. I mean, people were really working out in those days. We didn't have any time. We were shooting six days away. We've been working in rehearsal and writing all the time. So I had played racquetball, but these people are like, right, they were working out. They were going to win. They had trainers. I was scared shitless. Oh, I could imagine. I could imagine. And you guys probably felt somewhat removed from the, as you said, you know, primetime is almost like a slur around the, probably around the office. So that must have been extra strange to sort of be just thrust into that world all the sudden. Yeah. Yeah. We fancied ourselves is so cool and above it all. And, you know, however, I kind of liked, you know, all kinds of people. And yeah, I fraternize and have fun. Yeah, it seems like it would just be at the very least kind of a crazy lark to do for a day of some like, I can't believe that this was great to be outdoors, because I don't know, it's doesn't, it's not that glamorous shooting in what it is basically a basement room. Right. For six days a week, I did not see natural light. Right. We were an air conditioning fluorescent lit. It was like being in your father's tool clause. Right. And you're out in Los Angeles, which has wonderful weather and of all the places to be locked in a basement. Not quite the best. Right. So we shot in Malibu at Pepperdine University, and I had a day in the sun. It was wonderful. They let me keep all my athletic numbers. I did have athletic gear, and we had stretch limos. Each one of us had a stretch limos. That's pretty. Yeah, that's, it's sort of the, that show is one of the sort of last passions of the almost old Hollywood system. Yeah, right. They were still kind of treating things like, you know, it was the 1940s, and it must have felt like, yeah, this is right. I'm a big star. This is the whole thing. It was fun. I, you know, I didn't think it would be lasting forever. Also, I found stretch limo is extremely car sickness inducing, because the front of the car would go over a bump, and then five minutes later, you could go up in the back. You could thrust up into the air, and I always, it's like a comfort. It's always comfortable. I always ask for a Lincoln Town car. Yeah, that's absolutely better. Yeah. So after that, you, so after Fridays, and did you did some more guest starring roles, but these were all comedies at this point, I think, pretty much. Well, I wanted to do film. You know, I fancied that I wanted to be more of a serious actress, and so I turned down a sitcom deal. My manager said it was a big mistake, but I first, first of all, I was very burned out. I had been approached by Dick Ebersall to come to New York and do Saturday Night Live. Really? And I said I was so flattered, but I just needed to rest for a while and about life. I had been so isolated for a number of years. Right. And, you know, I got occasional guest star things on New Heart or other shows. But again, it was slow because I was very fussy for a few years. Right. Because you just want, I mean, I imagine that it was like being in basic training or something the whole time of your own Fridays and Saturday, and I probably would have been that, but even more so. Although, did you, when you came out here, did you always have the thought in the back of your head like it's sort of temporary and I'm going to eventually go back to New York? I went back and forth. I was very bi-coastal. You know, to always have like a cavernous bag with me. Right. One of those bags with 20 compartments so I could just jump on a plane and fly back. Right. Right. Because everybody's so happy here at me. Very suspicious. Yes. That's right. They didn't have that cynical, edgy energy like I was used to in New York. Yes. I identify with that as a New Englander in the East Coast. Yeah, it's very, very different. Everybody's so beautiful in Los Angeles. It gives you a very strange, you know, the sense of reality. They're pod peopleish. Yeah, it's a little strange. I think when beautiful kids were told go to Hollywood and you'll be a big star, they all kind of propagated and had beautiful children. They all live here. They run the restaurants and the gas stations. Everyone is gorgeous. Right. It's like Australia with criminals. They sent them all here and they just, that's the ingrained, that's the fourth generation. Right. This was the beauty city. Yeah. It is very weird. Yeah, when you go here. Exiled here if you were beautiful. You're auto mechanic and your plumber look like models. Yeah. And then you go to the Midwest and you see normal people. It's always like it's kind of surprising. They're all emulating Hollywood stars. Yes, that's true. And I'll pull it off. Yes, they try. They try. And so the next regular series that I think you, Hanif, that was probably Parker Lewis, that was the next time. Yeah, I think I did a series of episodes on Why's Sky. Okay. Before or after that, I don't remember. Ken Wall. Yes. So why? I played opposite Jonathan Banks, who was so wonderful on Breaking Bad. Yeah. A Why's Sky was a huge show for a while and then the network messed with the order of the episodes and they didn't air a few and it changed the night and it was it was one of those shows that everyone was like, this is being treated criminally and it ended up getting canceled. But that was a dramatic role. It was a car show. That was very dramatic. Yeah, I played Jonathan Banks kind of mistress. And then Kevin Banks was on, I'm sorry, Kevin Spacey was on our our series. He was the villain, I think, on that show. Yeah. He was having a kinky relationship with his sister. Right. Right. He was a fun guy to hang out. He's kind of, he's smart assy, smart me kind of guy. Oh, exactly. Yeah. He's like to like really think him seriously. You think he's having a real conversation, but you get the feeling he's kind of sizing you up and assessing you to go in for the kill. Right. Like he's walking you down this path just to just turn it on you in any second. Yeah. I mean, that's the feeling you get from Kevin. Almost like he's gifted. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And he was he was terrifying on that show as this sort of very cold, it wasn't called a mob boss, but some sort of just a crime head. Definitely. So again, so you try to do a couple of films and you didn't they didn't. They tend to put me in animal house type of films, which was not to my taste. Right. Right. But just because you've done Fridays, that's why they were kind of putting in these types of movies. Yeah. And then I got cast on Parker Lewis. Can't lose for Fox. So I had it went from being famous on three networks to being famous, being a famous when there were only three now hours to being famous when there was a new fourth network. Right. And then I got Rugrats, which was on the new kind of fifth network, which was Nickelodeon, and it became a very, very big hit. Most of his house, actually. Oh, from Rugrats. I've had more staying power, oddly, with that show than any other. It also had a spin off called All Drown Up. Right. And most people probably, Parker Lewis and Rugrats, were the two things that you're most known for. Like, yes. Majority of people, I guess, at this point. Yeah. And Parker Lewis was, so Fox had started in '87, but was still sort of a weekend network until about 1991, which is when Parker Lewis was one of their first shows as like a full fledged network. And you, when you went in for that, how did it differentiate itself from sort of these animal house type shows when you fell asleep? Well, actually had tested for parenthood, Ron Howard, serious that year. Yes. And I was. Ed Bagley, Jr. was in that. I had callbacks for that. And I really, really wanted that. Actually took Parker Lewis on the rebound. Right, right. What role on parenthood were you up for that? One of the parents. Okay. But it was a really beautiful script. And I was surprised it didn't go. Every, I vitalized it now. Of course, it's quite a hit now. The original one was, they, so they lasted about half a season and it was okay. It was very good. Well, that was my revenge. It was really good, but it didn't last. Parker Lewis ran on for three years. Yes, yes. And the role was written like a cartoon. She was described as apoplectic. I read the script and I said, this is an animated, this is like an animation. This is written like animation is going to be very hard to shoot very costly. And I was right. I mean, 16 hour days. I was exploding or something was exploding in almost every frame. There was so many special effects to set up. It was grueling. However, I love the kids. And they began to write really, really well for Ms. Musso. Yeah, your character definitely evolved a lot over the seasons and became more of a person, I guess is the best way to say it. A more vulnerable person. Yeah, because she started off, it was just an antagonist, basically. Yeah. And also, an antagonist, it was like Ava Peron running out of South American countries, running this high school, like I was a dictator. It was a very sort of Mary Warrenov type role, like from like Rockin' or High School. Right, right. And then, yeah, and then you become this this vulnerable person and you get the motivations of a show, which is odd in the show. It's sort of very surreal and cartoonish. But I mean, one of the things I loved about that show growing up was that, and there was sort of a strange zeitgeist at that time with even on Fox, which was like, get a lie for Nickelodeon to show like Adventures of Pete and Pete, was that they managed to almost capture more what it's what it feels like to be a teenager or a child by having it be a weirder, more surreal show, where everything is these sort of high stakes, you know, life or deaths type feeling situation. So. No glossiness. Exactly. Yeah. And I think that's why that show kind of endures and continues despite not being enough episodes for a traditional syndicated sort of package. We did get a DVD for the first two seasons. First two seasons. A couple of years ago. Third seasons in Germany. Yeah, that's like a lot of sexy male from Germany. From Germany, because my character would love more leather a lot and was a bit of a dominatrix. Yeah, so the Germans love it. I think I get a lot. And it's not even my voice, you see, but you know, it's my face. Have you actually seen it in German? I have an actually in Europe. I saw it in Italian also. That's going to be very strange seeing someone else's voice coming in Italian. She had a very high voice. Very strange. It didn't seem accurate to me. That's very odd. And then speaking of voices, I mean, Rugrats is voice over work. Yeah. And despite your minor involvement in the super friends as you mentioned earlier. Yeah. Hardly. Remember it was Super Mario, brothers or something? Oh, something like that. Yeah. So I mean, I imagine those are like a one-day job. It was a one-day job that's haunted me on IMTP. Yeah. Yeah. But Rugrats, though, was you were there from the beginning and you played Mrs. Pickles. Did he pickles and also her mother, the Yiddish character, Mika, who was an old Russian. And was that what, how different was it to do an actual cartoon versus what you thought was of a live-action cartoon with Parker Lewis? Is it? Well, it was a lot easier physically. Right. Absolutely. You don't have to wear makeup for heels. You don't have to wear heels for an hour or something like that. You know, it's really an easy thing. That's how they pictured the people. Come in, no bra. Yeah. And the cast was fantastic. Jack Riley, who had been on the original Newhart show, actually played one of the patients, was my husband. He has this wonderful kind of flat, vulnerable mind. Yes. Wonderful. I really enjoyed doing the pilot and then forgot about it. And it takes about a year, an animated pilot. A year later, they invited me to a screening and I watched this thing. And here's my voice emitting from this strange creature, this odd thing. And it was delightful. And then it got picked up in small little increments from time to time. But in rerun, it got to be such a blazing hit that one day I was paid $25,000 to record a car commercial. Really? Just voice covers. Yes. In fact, I said, do you want a shoe shine or something? Right, right, right. I was only working, Jack Riley and I worked for maybe five, 10 minutes and made 25 grand and residuals. Wow. So it was, for all my kind of disdain for doing anything that wasn't live action, it was really a cash cow. And you sort of avoided commercials a lot when you were coming up. And that's, you know, most actors, that's sort of their bread and butter for a long time. They do a lot of commercials. But you did, was that the first commercial you did? I did to bring around the collar when I lived in New York and McDonald's, which really paid for the acting class. Right, right, right. And I did a lot of voiceovers, but I never really enjoyed going on commercials and doing them and stuff. It just didn't feel like me. So you do commercial voiceovers? I did a lot of commercial voiceovers. In the early days, there were a lot of sketch comedy style review, comedy review type of commercials. Okay. So whenever they needed a, and Elaine May sound alike, I would, I would become Elaine May. Oh, that's interesting. Because she stirred me, wasn't going to do them. Right, right. And I did a lot of character stuff on them. So Rob Ross was actually my first animated audition. But you had a lot of experience, it sounds like doing that sort of thing. Well, distracting my dad and mom from Friday. Right, exactly. I got to do a lot of that. Exactly. And so, would you, is there anything you watch now? Like, do you, are there shows that you watch every week now? Or is it sort of like? Yes, we have our ritual television watching of 60 minutes. Okay. The good wife. Yeah. Breaking bad. Yeah. Breaking bad. Well, it's a Sunday night ritual. Yeah. We actually like breaking bad a lot. But to when you were flipping through the TV guides, it was, you said it was sort of Sunday night ritual when you were a kid as well. That was the night I was allowed to relax and watch television. I had to do homework most of the week nights. Right. So you're still sort of doing that. Well, I guess 60 minutes is the Ed Sullivan of my dad. Right, right, right. Ed Sullivan was just a doorway to all that was possible as a variety artist, his extraordinary. My father felt that he could call who was going to be a star, you know, like he'd see Barbara Stride. He said, oh, she's going to be big. How accurate. Are the Beatles? He said, you know, I think they're going to be big. It'd be funny if you just said it about everybody, but we only remember the ones he was correct on. Yeah. There's be that Topo Gio. Oh, right. It's going to be huge. That's going to be the biggest thing. Yeah. So it's a sight. Yeah. But there was a lot of Sunday shows who watch Omnibus, which I wish they could... Is it an anthology or? It was kind of like, I guess, CBS Sunday morning is there, except that show is so hampered by kind of PR people that just shove whatever movies. But they had Leonard Bernstein, Jonathan Winters improvising. They had an array of cultural influences on that show, even with short dramas. Oh, yeah. So I remember being allowed to watch that. I also remember soupy sales. I had a thing for Steve Allen, soupy sales, all the black-haired funny men. Yes, yeah, yeah. Steve Allen, who was the precursor to Stephen Colbert, I mean, he didn't look alike. He sort of is credited with sort of inventing the format of the modern television talk show. Right. And like Stephen Colbert, he was a real show off. He liked to show he could write music. He could do this. He could do that. And he managed to flex it all. And this is actually something you two have in common, because you hold some patents, correct, for inventions? One patent. A patent. And he did as well. He was always... He would always brag what all the patents he had for inventions. Yeah, I invented a Greywater recycling device, which allowed you to flush your toilet with your used shower water. And a rotating drain in your shower, very different kind of permutations of that. Couldn't sell it though. No, but still, I mean, there's not many people out here in the business that probably hold patents for. It's very expensive to have an idea. Let me warn you, getting a patent attorney, getting your idea secured internationally. Extremely extremely expensive. Wow. Yeah. So did you say... Did you mention that you met Steve Allen? I did. I got to. I was a production assistant at EUE Screen Gems in New York City for about six months before I got my first Broadway show. Right. And Steve Allen actually did a car commercial for us. Interesting. He played a white piano in it, which we let him keep. Oh, really? So he and Jane Meadows. Oh, Steve. We're on the council panel. And I got to hang out with him and take them to lunch and take them to their hotel. And he was very... Did you mention that you watched him? Oh, yeah. I was very proud of myself, though. I never got a knock need around stars. I felt quite at home with him. And he was very accessible and lovely. Yeah. He seemed... From everything I hear about the interaction things, he seemed to be that way with people. Yeah. And he got athletic shoes to battle the stars. He got a white piano. He got a white piano for a time. Yeah. For being nice to the crew. How did you get that out of there? Well, they dismantled and took it out. There was a garage. Yeah. You know, there's studios. They have a garage. Right, right, right. The whole wall. It seems like a weird thing to just take home. And it's a Hollywood. I think they sent it to Hollywood, actually. Really? From New York. I believe so. Well, speaking of Cruz, I was a huge Mr. Pelvedere fan and show I sort of fascinated with. It was very... He's a wonderful stage actor. Christopher Hewitt. Yeah. Absolutely. It was very strange that he was on this. It was a weird cast, generally. British actor just took the money, basically. Yeah. But he was good on it. I mean, he was surprisingly great at comedy. And he was great at just a barely contained rage. Yeah. Would be a good... And being the foil for Bob Euchar, was it? Right, yes. He was, you know, not an actor. He's a sports announcer. Sports announcer right now. Which is very strange. And it's based on these 1930s, Clifton Web movies. Right. A lot of the people who were running that show were from Barney Miller, which was a very good, sort of serious show. And then they go into this show. So you did a guest spot on that show. Why did I play a cop or a detective? A believer detective, yes. Yeah. Another authority figure on the show. Yes, I guess I was. I don't remember the show that well. I don't remember that I had very interesting material, but I do remember that because I was traveling back and forth to New York City so much, and I always had a cavernous purse with many compartments. I could never find my keys. Right. So I had a device on my keychain that when I whistled would whistle back. Okay. So that I could locate the keys in my cavernous purse. And one day we were supposed to record, we're finally recording. They were doing a camera check and all of a sudden they shut everything down, stopped the show. They delayed like two, three hours. And I finally, you know, brought my coffee over and I said, "What's going on?" They said, "Well, there's a whistle." In the camera, I mean, it keeps triggering. There's like a 60 mega-cycle hum getnings and it's got all the equipment screwed up. So I just moved my purse off the set into the dressing room and then everything resumed again. Right. I just pretended you had no idea what it was. Yeah. And then I finally confessed it as I was leaving that week to the director. And he was like, "What? Do you know how much money you lost?" I was going to send you a bill for this. Wow. But, you know, I was able to find my keys quite easily. That's more important, really. I mean, if you couldn't find your keys, you would have been trapped there maybe to this day. You wouldn't have been able to leave that set. Yeah. So that was the kind of incident I remember sorry to say from Mr. Belvedere. And I also remember hanging out with Chris because he was a theater lover. Have you met him before that? Or had you met him at a Hollywood party? Okay. You know, he was a lovely gentleman. He was a lovely gentleman. But one of the most influential British actors in my life was Patrick McNeese. Oh, yes. The Avengers. We did a pilot called The Empire, which was about an old New Jersey firm trying desperately to get into the modern age. When was this? Oh, it was between series, I guess. It was in the late 80s. Okay. And Patrick McNeese McNeese played the head of this aging group. Yeah, yeah. And I remember that we would just linger and hang together. And he told me that he was a world traveler and never had to pay for hotels. And I said, "Well, how do you pull that off?" And he said, "You know about 20 good jokes, and you can mooch off with just about anyone in the world for about three days, and then leave, and then never have a home big enough to reciprocate." That is very fascinating. So he was a great rock on tour, and he managed to travel free and stay with royalty, stay all over the world, and never had a big apartment, never had a, you know. So I always remembered that to have about six good jokes. Yes. Have you ever tried that? Yes. I did very well in England, actually. Really? Yeah. I actually mooch duff of friends of his. Yes. Well, Patrick McNeese was probably, you know, I imagine he also had a little bit of juice being like, "I'm Patrick McNeese, especially in England." He's very dapper and fun to try. Yes. Yes. He's sort of the quintessential that guy. I mean, he is. Did you watch The Avengers? I did. I thought Diana Rig was one of hallucinations. How on Game of Thrones? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. Yeah. She's been in so many different things over the years, and it's, you know, just because people aren't on TV right now, doesn't mean they've disappeared for reality. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. We all tend to think as soon as they're off TV, they're dead or some horrible, homeless condition, you know, vails. But a lot of people have a lot of things. Oh, yeah. They're doing perfectly well. But I think with Diana Rig, she's always, when she shows up, I'm surprised because it takes me a few minutes to, she sort of is chameleon-like in roles, and she was on Dr. Who, I think, last year. And she's not a person who played, you know, it's not like they're just casting her to be Emma Peel, you know, 30 years later. Yes. So I always forget that it's her. But the Avengers was a huge hit over here. Right. Probably the first British show that really did well in mainstream audiences. And she was so sexy, and brilliant, and tough, and smart. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It was great to see an intelligent woman starring in a show. Yeah, that must have been very unusual because the only other show I can think of around the time was part of the, like, Honey West. Right. Which was a great show. Anne Francis. Yes. Yes. From, uh, she's in one of my favorite movies of all time, The Love God, with Don Naughts, that Nat Hynkin wrote. Yeah, remember meeting her? And she was very far out. Was she really? She was very spiritually attuned before any of us knew what that was. Yeah, I could see them. Very into ESP and Edgar Cayce. Oh, interesting. Yeah. In fact, she wrote a book about it. Oh, did she really? Kind of an autobiographical book about hearing voices. Oh, interesting. I'll check that out. Yeah. I love a memoir. Yeah. And she was also in, um, Forbidden World. Not Forbidden World. Oh, man. I'm pretty angry. Some sci-fi? Yeah, with Leslie Nielsen in the 1950s, one of the, um. Gosh, you know your television. It's, yeah, it's not something I ever tried to learn. It just sort of, it just sort of soaked in. I wanted to share with you being featured in TV Guide, actually. Oh, yes, you know. Oh, when I played Ms. Musso, I had received a lot of fan mail and Ms. Musso, myself as Ms. Musso, read pencil to punctuation and spelling errors and return the photo. Oh, would you really? And I would grade them and I would say, no picture for you. Please send this back, correct? Oh, that's amazing. And a lot of people would obey. And they would send them back, correct? Yes, yes. And then when, if they got an A and they were well punctuated, I'd say, you know, you got an A, well punctuated. That's fantastic. And I would send a picture. So they did a little write up and one of the TV Guides. Oh, that's amazing. I better probably have that one. I can take it up and maybe I'll scan it and send it to you. I would have been 91. I know I have it in fact. Oh, cool. I'll take it up and up. Yeah, I'll make you a copy and I'll scan it. That's amazing. If you were to cheer in a cheer for television, either from your youth or now even for this week, what would it be? A cheer and a cheer for television? Yes, yes. I think it's too good. And it just takes up too much of my attention. Too much time. I am a John Stewart, Stephen Colbert, 60 Minutes, Junkie. I think Amy Schumer is amazingly radical. She's very, yes. I'm looking to see who the next female talk show host will be. Yeah. Do you have any people you think it might be? Do you have any? Surprise me. There's so many incredible female stand-ups right now who deserve a shot. Absolutely. And we were saying earlier too that it's great that my Rudolph is doing a variety show, which is something that I'm surprised that hasn't happened already. It's a great step. Do you find that you tend to gravitate towards things like 60 Minutes and talk shows now because it's harder for you to get lost in characters, being in the business and maybe seeing people you know on shows, and it's harder for you to relate to them as their character? I was totally swept away by the sopranos, which was very much like the mentee of my hometown, a lot of Italian wannabes, to be big guys taps on their shoes. Yeah. Totally swept away. If the acting is good, even if I know the actors, I get completely calculated. That's a good compliment, I think, to someone's acting. And so that's your jear. That also sounds like a cheer, though. Well, my cheer is not enough women, yes. But it is changing. Not enough women directing, not enough women starring, not enough women running a talk show in the evenings. And my cheer is that, guys, it's getting better and better all the time. It's better than a lot of features. Yeah, absolutely. I think that the movie world has become sort of just big budget B movies. And so the quality stuff is definitely coming out on television these days. Yeah, I love television. I'm looking forward to getting back inside it again. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate the pleasure. Thank you. And in a way, that was my episode with Melanie Chardoff. What a fascinating person. Just an amazing life. Her stories are fantastic. You can go to her website, melonichardoff.com. She also does teaching. And you can, if you're in the Los Angeles area, you can go to chartoffteaching.com. And you can sign up for all kinds of classes with her, for voiceover, for improv, for all kinds of stuff. I highly recommend you do that. She's an amazing resource and you will be a better person for having done it. Just a side note, Melanie shared this with me after we recorded. She got married and she actually wore Miss Muso's wedding dress. There was an episode of Parker Lewis, where she was supposed to get married. Her husband died in the show. And the people who make the show let her keep the dress still fits. She wore it for her wedding. Perfect. So there you go. That's Melanie Chardoff. Again, please continue to email me at can@icandread.com. I love hearing from you guys. Go to our Facebook page, TV guidance console. You can post things there and let us know. We'll have more contests on there and all kinds of stuff. Please go to Stitcher, go to iTunes, go to SoundCloud, subscribe to the show, rate the show, review the show if you like it, help spread the word. I really appreciate it and please be back here next Wednesday for an all new episode of TV guidance.