You're listening to a Rod Vary podcast. Mission Log, a Rod and Vary Star Trek Podcast, Episode 560, Pathfinder. Welcome into another episode of Mission Log, a Rod Vary Star Trek Podcast. I'm Jon Champion. And I'm Amy Nelson, sitting in for Norman Lau. Each week on Mission Log, we analyze an episode of Star Trek. We're throwing ourselves into the story for a look at the morals, meanings and messages. And asking ourselves if it stands the test of time. This week, Pathfinder, the one where Reg Barkley develops an unhealthy obsession with the lost ship in the Delta Quadrant. But he may just hold the answer to finding them. Welcome back to the show, Amy. It's been so long. It's been weeks. Almost a couple months. Come on now. Reading the intro, it still gets me. I love it. I'm thrilled to have you here. And it is our own mutual friend, Norman, who said, "You gotta get Amy for this one." So that's what we did. And glad to have you here. And thank you again. It was so much fun talking about Barge and the Dead with you. And I know that you're a Deanna fan and we're going to get into all of that today. Please remind people if they're looking for you and your other Trek podcasting where they can find you. Well, find me over at BQN Podcast Network. I'm on Blue Sky at BQN Podcasts. And the podcast that I'm on is Union Federation, All Good Things. And we have a view screen that's a live show on YouTube in the spring and the fall. So we're in the mix of planning that and getting ready for that to start in February. Fantastic. I love it. All right, folks. We know where to find our BQN Podcast Network. And since they all know how to find you, if you can tell everybody how to find us. Absolutely. We would love to hear from you. Mission Log is a conversation about Star Trek. Find us on Facebook at Mission LogPod and Threads at Roddenberry Podcasts. The conversation always continues in the Mission Log Discord with nearly daily live events and 24/7 chat about the topics you love. Get your invitation to our private server by joining patreon.com/missionlog. And I can attest, that is one busy server over there, so sign up. It is a lot of fun there. While you're at it, one of the most important ways to help the podcast you love is to leave a five-star rating and a review at Apple or your favorite podcast platform. Always remember your comments could be used on the show. All right. I don't think we have a break here. There's probably not a mid-show ad for this one or we'll talk. So we'll just go right over to the trivia if you can give me the intro there. And I'll do it. And now, here's John Champion who worked all night in the holodeck for this week's trivia. All right. Let's talk about Pathfinder. We have a story by David Zabel, and this is David's Soul Star Trek credit, which appears honestly quite early in his career. I think he just had a couple episodes of "Jag" and then this, and then that launched a much broader and much bigger career. After Trek, David went on to write and climbed the ranks as producer on shows such as "ER" and "Mercy Street" and "The Walking Dead" spin-off show "Darryl Dixon." He shares a teleplay credit here with Kenneth Biller. Makes a lot of sense. He bring in one of the regular staff writers to help shape a story like this. And it was directed by Mike Vehar, and we're still relatively early in our run of episodes of Voyager that Mike directed. Of course, he's been in pretty much all of the series of this era. Now, he landed a total of 13 with Voyager, so there's lots more to see from him over this season and next. And appropriately for our guest today, Amy, the last episode of Mike's that we discussed was indeed "Barge of the Dead." Crazy coincidence. That's awesome. Right. Nice little bit of book ending there. Let's meet our guest stars. So we have Richard McGonagall as Pete Harkins, and he might look or sound at least a little familiar to you. We saw Richard back in season five of "TNG," where he played Dr. Jadar in the episode "New Ground." And yes, he is just one of those actors who works nonstop. He has more than 200 credits to his name. And even since the last time we mentioned him here on Mission Log, which was back in our "TNG" coverage, he has lent his voice to a number of video games and animated projects in addition to his just innumerable on-camera credits. Then we have Richard Herd as Owen Paris. Now, we've had a previous appearance of Tom's dad, Owen Paris, but we're settling into the actor who will play him until the end of the series for a total of four times. Richard Herd is not new to track, though. We mentioned him, again in our coverage of "TNG," back when we saw him as a Klingon in "Birth Rights," part one and two. Then, and now, many of us best remember Richard as the visitor, Supreme Commander John, in the epic 1980s miniseries, "I loved that series so much." And sadly, we lost Richard in 2020 at the age of 87. And now, there are two more guest stars who, you know, is such a cliche. They need no introduction to our audience, at least, reprising their roles as Deanna Troy and Reg Barclay, are Marina Seridis and Dwight Schultz and Amy. You've got a bit of trivia about Dwight Schultz. Well, I had the distinct honor and pleasure of interviewing Dwight Schultz back in 2018 on a little show I used to do called Earl Grey on Trek FM. That's Earl Grey episode 222, if you're interested. But what I loved about talking with Dwight is just how he really put forth a lot of energy into building this specific type of character with this, you know, oddities and his little quirks and how much he was well received for it. He loved playing Barclay. And I feel it really is showcased here in this episode. Welcome to the Alpha Quadrant. It's still here. Where have you been? [MUSIC] For a log. On Earth, Reg Barclay answers and knock at his door to find an old friend, Deanna Troy. Thrilled to see her, he offers her chocolate ice cream, and it's the chaos of his still unpacked after two years' apartment. Troy's concerned. Barclay seems frazzled, admitting he's been under pressure while working on the Pathfinder project. Starfleet's effort to contact the lost USS Voyager. His cat, Neillix, drops in for a cameo, and Barclay confesses his real issue. He's becoming utterly obsessed with Voyager. Act 1. Barclay admits he tricked Troy into a counseling session, and he starts explaining his situation. His big idea? Using a tacky on beam and a pulsar to create an artificial wormhole to contact Voyager. But his bosses thought it was a misuse of the mitus array. When Troy asks for more context, Barclay takes her back to the holodeck where his obsession began. In flashback, Barclay is running simulations on Voyager's bridge when his boss, Commander Pete Harkins, interrupts. Harkins reminds him to finish diagnostics before Admiral Paris's visit and warns against pitching his wormhole idea. Barclay's last big theory had wasted six months. Still, Barclay is convinced he's on to something, and he keeps working late into the night. Harkins invites him for coffee and to meet his sister-in-law, but Barclay declines to engrossed in his work. With no breakthroughs and Paris's visit just hours away, Barclay turns to his favorite escape, the holodeck. On his simulated Voyager, everyone loves him, and he's a poker champ playing alongside his best friends, Jacote, Belana, Harry, and Tom. Later, still restless, Barclay visits the holographic doctor for a massage and admits his racing mind won't let him sleep. Finally, he retreats to his holodeck quarters, confessing in a voiceover that this world feels more like home than his own apartment. Act II. After the briefing with Admiral Paris, Harkins presents Pathfinder's progress. Voyager's likely location has been mapped, but the Midas array, this new hyper-subspace system, could send a message across the Delta Quadrant in days, though Voyager wouldn't be able to respond. Barclay can't hold back, blirting out his idea to create a wormhole for two-way communication. His stumbling pitch fails when Harkins dismisses the ideas and practical. Barclay's emotional outburst reminds everyone of the stakes, but Admiral Paris, whose son is a bored Voyager, coolly says he hasn't forgotten them. Barclay apologizes and is told to take the day off. In the present, Troy questions how Barclay processed his feelings. He avoids the topic, admitting he turned to the holodeck for help. Troy suspects his hollow addiction is resurfacing. Flashing back again, Barclay is in his simulated Voyager brainstorming solutions with the crew. He proposes compressing the data stream to use a micro-wormhole but gets caught by Harkins after spending ten hours in the holodeck. Harkins accuses him of relapsing into his addiction and removes him from the project, locking him out of both the lab and the hologrid. Act III. Barclay waits outside Admiral Paris's office until he's granted five minutes to plead his case. Apologizing for his outburst, he outlines a revised plan and appeals to Admiral Paris's personal stake in Voyager, reminding him of the chance to contact Tom. Paris, though unsettled by Barclay's holographic recreations, defers to Harkins' decision to remove him from the project but agrees to review the proposal. Back in the present, Barclay tells Troy the meeting was a dead end and begs her to vouch for his fitness for duty. Troy refuses, and Barclay lashes out, admitting Voyager has become an obsession, his last connection to a sense of family after leaving the Enterprise. Troy offers the take leave to support him through his struggles, but Barclay remains restless. That night, unable to sleep, he overrides his lockout of the lab accessing the holodeck again and the mitus array to pursue his plan in secret. Act 4. Barclay powers up the mitus array, firing a tacky on beam with a pulsar to create a microwormhole aimed at Voyager's last known coordinates. When his first message gets no response, Harkins and security arrive to shut him down, Barclay transfers control of the holodeck using his holographic Voyager crew to erect force fields and outmaneuver the team. As Harkins calls for reinforcements, Barclay reroutes the wormhole and tries again, but still no reply. With the situation escalating, Harkins simulates a warp core breach to force Barclay's hand. Reluctantly, Barclay shuts down the program before holodeger can be destroyed. Meanwhile, aboard the real Voyager, 7 makes a startling discovery. She's detected the microwormhole. Act 5. Voyager receives part of Barclay's message, and Janeway responds just as the wormhole starts collapsing. On Earth, as Barclay is being led away, a garbled transmission from Voyager comes through. Admiral Paris orders the signal cleaned up, and Barclay communicates with Janeway. He transmits hypersubspace technology data while Voyager sends logs and reports. Paris speaks to Janeway, asking about the crew and expressing pride in Tom, who silently listens from his place on the bridge. The wormhole collapses, cutting the connection, but not before a monumental first contact. Back on Voyager, the crew celebrates in the mess hall. The doctor shares Barclay's eccentric personnel file, and 7 announces that the new technology may allow regular contact. Tom offers a toast to his dad and the mysterious Reg Barclay. On Earth, Troy congratulates Barclay, who credits her support. He reveals he's now dating Harken's sister-in-law, appropriately named Hope, the end. Well, Jan, what a great episode of TNG. Oh, wait a minute. This is Voyager, isn't it? Just a little bit, just a little bit. You know what? And I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but that's always the risk, right? Is if you do this kind of thing, does it feel too contrived? Does it feel too much like painterly? No, no, no, no. We know that you love TNG. So come watch this other show, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely on my rewatch, watching it and just getting all the feels of, you know, how TNG is my warm blanket. It really is just a lovely episode to come back and watch and get the good conjunction of the two shows. Yeah. Yeah, because sometimes it doesn't work. Sometimes you feel like, I remember on Mystery Science Theater every now and then, they would sort of do an introductory thing when a guest star or whatever was really obvious. And they're like, ladies and gentlemen, boom. And sometimes when you do a crossover episode, you feel like that. Mm-hmm. But this, you described it perfectly. It's the warm blanket. When I saw Reg and Diana together, I was like, oh, my God. Yeah. This, like, time has not elapsed. We're just right there. It's great. Yeah, right there. Yeah. All right. So I actually love whenever Star Trek goes back to Earth. I don't think you can do it too much. You know, you need to keep the action in space. But I like the connection back to just like, no, no, no. Here's why we do all this is because people live on Earth and that's where we're from. And that's still home. I love this late '90s, 24th century version of Earth and all the gray and beige Earth tones, you know. It's just very cool. And my God, I just kept thinking to see Reg and Diana together, like, what a pleasant surprise it must have been back in 1999, because I didn't see it in its first airing. Yeah. I did not eat there. So I just for an audience then, please let us know if you were there. It must have felt great. And the cat named Neelix, I thought that was very clever. Right. Yes. Yep. And annoying, just a spot is jumping up on the counter, getting in the window. Yeah. I was like, oh, okay. Again, just all the callbacks to TNG. All the feels. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. And I thought that was interesting to throw in Neelix and how Diana was like, oh, that's an interesting name. Yeah, it's alien. Right. Fun tie-in, yes. It was so interesting to hear, oh, I need to watch my figure. But that was said a lot in '80s and '90s TV. And I was listening to it just yesterday. I was like, who says that nowadays? I'm so glad we're not. Oh, I need to watch my girly figure. Stuff like that stands out because you go, okay, here's a show it's written in 1999, but it's by writers who grew up with TV in the '50s, '60s, '70s. Yeah. And you just think like, yeah, we can leave this behind. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And I'm still confused. Did Troy drop in on her own volition or did Reg invite invite her? And like, oh, wouldn't that have been fun to have Geordie? Like, I'm still-- Right. I didn't understand the purpose of the drop-in. And so I was questioning after that little bit. It seemed like they were trying to contrive. Oh, it was a social call, but really he's in need. It's a little murky, but she's there. You know. Yeah. I mean, I guess it's better than never explaining why she's there. Like, they did all the time in the movies with Worf, shall we? Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Because I kind of-- I had that in my head. And as we were talking offline, wait, wait, where does this fall? And we figured that it is after insurrection but before Nemesis. So we actually have to do it. And they name check DS9. And they name check the Enterprise. And they name check Picard. And yeah, all of this is good. And I am so glad when we get to the Pathfinder project that we see the most important prop in the world. I hope you know what I'm talking about. It's just long these tubes of red neon that flash. And they have these giant kind of metal brackets on either end. The same prop that William Shatner walks by in Airplane 2. But the same prop used in the Wrath of Khan. The same prop used in TNG. Everywhere. It is the most important prop in the world. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Pathfinder's using it. We got to get Voyager back. So this is it. Yeah. We linger on it a little bit too. So that's nice to see it. I love the 24th century office building exterior of Starfleet communications. The giant branding on there. Yes. And I love seeing the little details. It's in my notes. I said, what does the holodeck get wrong? But it's not wrong. It's the detail of how Voyager's last known look would have been. So like Chikote and Bolana and their marquee garb and then, you know, different hairstyles. Really cool. Yeah. Yeah. I think Chikote just looks really good in this episode. I mean, I wish he had more to say than just, you know, looking good. But, you know, again, like brings you back to season one, Voyager, but then, yeah, there's just something not quite bright with how they look and that's fun to spot those little different. He should have left him to rock that. Like do the hair and he'll muffs up his hair a little bit. Oh, yeah. You know, he's, he's pretty cool, you know, um, no, Reg, and we've brought this up on Mission Log before. Reg says that he slept better in his holographic quarters on Voyager than he did in his real apartment. I keep asking, in the 24th century, holodecks are a thing. Why wouldn't just everything be holodecks? His apartment should be holodecks, you know? I mean, why wouldn't you, yeah, with everyone doting on you and complimenting you and oh, I'm so glad you're here. I need this, you to help me with this. It's just having the kind of room that you want. Just like, I don't want my apartment to look like my apartment. I want it to look like a room on Voyager with the stars going by. I mean, that's, I'd sleep well. Oh, would you though? I mean, because it's like, you program. Yeah, yeah, I get programming a comfortable bed, like, yeah, sign me up for that. But like the people that still throws me off, right, how he can just still so believe it. Right. Um, what about all of this techno babble? I'm loving all of it and this wormhole and explaining this pathfinder, like it's so incredible throughout the entire episode. And it just makes me think of like current track where we get to interact with the science, you know, uh, consultants of Dr. Aaron McDonald and Dr. Muhammad nor where we get to hear their explanation of what we just saw. And so now go back to the nineties and it's like, how are these science, I mean, it's just so cool, this seems just more hands off because I don't know the science consultants, a Voyager like I do. Current. Well, and I think the stakes are higher now because anybody can Google it. Anybody can have an argument about it with these people online. So like you mentioned, I, such great people, Dr. McDonald, Dr. Nor, you know, they really have to bear down and make sure that they're doing something at least plausible, at least sort of make it make sense in universe. And that's the difficult thing here, where it's, uh, I assume it was Andre Bormanas at the time on this one, just saying like, okay, here, here's what you're trying to do. We're going to come up with a thing that sounds plausible in universe. But, but in 1999, nobody's Googling that. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Good point. You know, I know it's supposed to, you were supposed to feel bad for Barkley when he gets invited to go meet Pete's sister. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I have to watch my, you know, Neil, isn't that your cap? I'm like, oh, that's so sad, but I had to check myself because I've had friends like dis me because they have to go take care of their pet. Of course. Of course. Yeah. I fully understand that. And you know what? That's something else here that we're going to come back to, which is Pete's whole relationship with Reg because I think if this guy was inviting me over, I'd say no. I, you know, I come up with an excuse even if he didn't have a cat, I go get a cat now. It's interesting that they're trying to plot where Voyager would be because we've only had the one contact with Voyager that time that the doctor's EMH program was sent through. But they're doing this in the Starfleet briefing. But in two years since they had their last contact, Voyager has been fast forwarded a couple of times by unexpected circumstances. I mean, there's the under space that they were able to use as kind of a corridor to get through. There's all these other things where it's like, oh, no, we just shaved a couple of thousand light years off or whatever. So, you know, I guess we just have to let that go and we don't let it go. We absolutely appreciate and celebrate the math for their educated guests of extrapolating. Okay. And we get to hear the specifics of, well, an average of 6.5 warp. Yeah. I mean, of course they're going to go faster. They're going to go slower, like shed, but I would between what we know between warp impulse and warp 10, like 6.5, that's, that's a pretty reasonable and the quadrant, I guess they would say that they, that's a reasonable guess because they know they're coming to sector 001. So, I absolutely loved that extrapolation and celebrate math. Yay. And there's probably somebody there going, you know, if we know Jane Way, she's probably stopping at every little thing to have a look, to make first contact, do a little exploration. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you have to check to see if there's coffee in that name. Exactly. Exactly. And everybody with the project is just shooting down Barkley and no wonder he's frustrated. And, and he's right that the people on the holodeck are the only ones that he can talk to. Like that's, there's something really kind of disturbing about everybody at Starfleet. Again, I think we'll get more into that in the discussion, but yeah. Something to just ask yourself, like, why am I communicating best with not humans? Yes. Yeah. That's something to consider. Exactly. And honestly, you know, again, I feel like this would be a central theme here, but it is uncomfortable to see Pete's reactions to Barkley many times. I feel like I'm comfortable is a bit, I don't know, just a little tiny harsh for me because I feel like Pete goes back in, back and forth between, get the job done. I'm trying to understand you. Yeah. I feel like Pete is a really good boss. So I'm really, okay, you have to debate that a little bit there. Oh, wonderful. I look forward to that. Yeah. I felt like it was such a brave move for Reg to make his point. I feel it's really brave of Reginald to get out there and speak to Admiral Paris, just knowing that his philosophy, his theory is going to be the one. I mean, have you done something so brave? Rarely. I don't think that I have. Yeah. I'd be hard pressed to come up with something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And for Reg to create this holodeck program to solve a problem, I thought was so interesting. And as a counselor, we've looked at different philosophies and one of them is Gestalt empty chair strategy, and that's where you talk to an empty chair as if someone was there. And I feel that that's all that Reggie is doing is he's creating a holodeck this empty chair of, okay, let me bounce some ideas off no one, but I'm still bouncing ideas off. And that's where he comes to, oh, let's minimize and make a micro wormhole. I just thought that whole thing was so awesome. Okay, me too, and I absolutely want to come back to that because that is, yeah, I love the idea of problem solving here and the tools that he uses to do. So let's definitely put a pin in that. Now, Admiral Paris finds, quote, spending time with my holographic son. That's his accusation toward Reg disturbing. But to me, I mean, this is the 24th century, holograms are everywhere, at least holodecks are everywhere. And this is a thing, this is a thing that these people have access to. Remember Tasha Yar? She left a piece of herself behind in this holographic form meant to be interacted with after death, Wesley Crusher, same thing with Jack Crusher. I mean, this is a sort of a reality. Now, to me, from my 20th, 21st century perspective, I might find that a little hard to deal with if that were to be presented to me. But this is something that these people have all around them, that they have this ability to call up these figures. But wasn't that sort of the distinction back in the TNG Hollow Pursuits episode where it was weird because he was recreating current living people. Yeah. So with Tasha and Jack Crusher, they're deceased in that sort of a memory tool, but recreating someone who is currently living, I think that's the oddity of that's where the line in the sand is. Yeah. I mean, doing that with living people who could then come back to you and say, "Hey, that's disturbing. Please don't do that." I get that. I think it's a whole other thing when you get into people who are gone and that stunts the ability to grieve because then if you were actually faced with this, if you could actually bring up somebody in a totally convincing facsimile, I think that might have some really dire consequences too. And talking about this holographic sun, who is that picture on Admiral Paris' desk? That is not Robbie Duncan McNeil. It just can't be. It doesn't even look like him. Who is that? Who is that? I read somewhere that is Nick Lecarno. So I did a, yeah, I did freeze frame on that and I was like, "This doesn't look right at all." It wrote. Yeah, that was weird. Yeah, one thing that was really surprising was his reaction to Admiral Paris when he's like, "Okay, I'll take a look and give you my results." He was sad about it. I'm like, "What other reaction did he want? I didn't know." Yeah, I think that's really Reg's biggest mistake here. That is his inability to connect with the team and work within normal parameters, which is, "Hey, you got the meeting and you kind of got to go ahead. Wait." That's all. Yeah. I was like, "Yeah." And one thing, especially now at this point where we're seeing Reg try and get the use of this, mind us a ray, why couldn't he use it? We're not worried about money. We're not worried. I mean, maybe was it using some kind of mineral or something that scarcity didn't seem like it? But I say no, if this is, I wish it just seems so bureaucratic of, "You have to follow the rules. Fill up this paperwork." And I'm like, "That's not why we don't do things in Starfleet." And I just, I feel like they missed the mark on that. Exactly. Because after all, that is the biggest fantasy of the 24th century, which is, you get rid of the bureaucracy. Yeah. You can actually do the things they want to do. One thing that this episode really reminded me of is how great Troy is as a counselor. I know it is debated hotly. She doesn't get a lot of counseling money. True. And one point, she says, "Try to relax to Barclay." Oh my gosh. Who says that? Oh. Terrible writing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But they, she redeems herself when she gets to, you know, really get to Barclay and ask why he feels that the Voyager is his family. And we get that very tender, vulnerable moment between them, you know, thinking about the good times on the enterprise. So she is a really good counselor. That's a good point. By the way, did you hear what you just said? You said, "The Voyager." And I, no, but I love that because I noticed that in the episode that Reg refers to the ship as "The Voyager." And it's, I don't think anybody on Voyager, on "The Voyager," refers to the ship as "The Voyager," yet we all say the enterprise. Oh, yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Now, I love that takes four acts into the show before we actually see "The Voyager" crew. You know? Up until this point has just been Barclay's holodeck recreation. And I love that. It was like seeing that scene with the interaction between Neelix and Seven brought me right back to Voyager episode. And so this entire time, I felt like I was watching a next gen. And I love that just, okay, we're back into Voyager. We're back to the present time. It was beautiful. Yeah. Beautiful. Very clever and just very effective too for an episode like this. I love all these sequences of "The Voyager" crew constantly defending Reg, like literally and figuratively. Like, they've got us back when it comes to his idea. But they're also, they're putting up force fields and they're doing all this stuff, loads of fun. It was and seeing when Reg takes the program to the holodeck and then that realization of, oh my gosh, they're sending the wormhole and to themselves. Yes. It was brilliant. I loved it. Well, where's this? There's a wormhole. Who are we trying to communicate? Well, the show sort of folds it on itself at that point. Yes. And I love the moment of connection where they realize what's happening. It really truly was a lovely moment to see the reactions, both on Voyager and at Pathfinder, even Admiral Paris. Like they all have this kind of earned emotional moment with all of that. I do want to say that as we, you know, wrap up the episode, maybe with the EMH, not cool to just data dump Barclays' personal information at a party. Probably not a great idea. Yeah. And then I did wonder, can't they just open up another wormhole? Like they're all upset about, oh, it collapsed and that was our last communication. Like, well, no, they literally just hit a button at Pathfinder. Just hit the button again. You know, make another one. Yeah, why wouldn't they just open up another one? That's a good question, John. All right. Maybe there's more to come here. So by the way, we teased that little moment earlier with Harkins inviting Reg over, like, come by the house and meet my sister-in-law. And I just felt like that was so phony. But then at the end, we're just like, oh, by the way, before we go to credits, we're going to drop this tantalizing subplot here. Reg has got a girlfriend and everything's cool. Wow. That was all I had to say was well. Yeah. That was tied up with a nice little bow, Reg's fix, counselor Troy fixed him, so we're done. And yes, I'm a cat person. Oh, good. Fair. That's not so. It may not be a captain's log, but was this whole episode Star Trek's longest log entry ever? So Amy, as it often happens, we do our quick little observations. And those tend to spark the ideas that come back in the discussion. And maybe you're going to say that I'm being too hard on Pete Harkins. But there is something, look, first of all, I'll say this, I think the show does a pretty good job of giving him some redeeming qualities. It's not like he's the villain. It's not like he's just out to get Reg. I totally get that. But I feel like we're establishing this thing from early on where he is so just, he's got a hair trigger when it comes to dismissing Barclay. And I feel like I feel like there has to be some acknowledgement, hey, Reg Barclay, he's he might be a little different, might be a little awkward. He's going to work at his own pace. He's going to work in his own way. What we need to do is give him the support that he needs. And that's why I felt like that earlier scene where he's trying to set Reg up on a date. That played very phony and awkward to me indeed because all we've seen is this guy kind of go after him. I don't quite know what to make of this relationship. What do you think of Pete and his ability to be a boss for Reg? Yeah, I think he's trying to balance the, am I a boss? Can I be a friend? Where does that land and I'm hoping in the 24th century that we can, you know, have some friendships and learn to create the lines that need to be drawn to keep it boss versus friend. But so I see where he's coming from and I feel like he is understanding of Barclay. But I just wish that we got to know why he was so hesitant to give him full latitude. I mean, we get the one explanation of, well, I gave you latitude on this thing six months ago and you wasted time. Well, is that all that they have to waste? Then again, I don't understand what the problem is. Is it that the array needs to be used for something more significant that I can't give him the time? Right. Well, it didn't seem like that like when he went to the lab and broke in, it was shut down completely. No one was using it. Right. All of, all of Reg's reasons of why and when seemed to work. So again, was it just, uh, Harkins just being a boss and no, no, no, no. So was, is that why it seems fake? Cause there wasn't a good reason to let Barclay unleash. Because there is something that is reasonable in saying, Hey, you're, you're working hours and hours and hours past the time that we're closed. This is not good for your mental health anyway. If you're obsessing over this thing and you're not going home and you're not getting to sleep and you're not able to occupy your mind with other things, that level of obsession is going to make you a, a worse employee. It's going to make you worse at your job. But has it shown that well, he's still working on the problem. Yeah. And he's got good ideas to work on the problem. Right. Yeah. If there is a fault here, maybe the fault is okay. He's under a lot of pressure, maybe self imposed pressure here. So we do need to kind of be sensitive to the mental health aspect of this and say, Hey, we can all work together here. We can all kind of make a plan here. Voyager is not going anywhere. We know so far away, we can continue to plot out where we think they will be. So all of these are, are givens. Edge, on the other hand, is reacting poorly when he is given the opportunity to present this stuff to Admiral Parris, who, by the way, is also being a bit dismissive. Yeah. That scene cutting to Parris and we know that, okay, maybe Parris isn't a great guy anyway because he and Tom don't get along. But this idea of him and his office like, Oh, that guy hasn't left yet. Oh, I suppose I'll have to listen to him like you should listen anyway. Because here's somebody on the team who cares about the same thing that you care about, right? Yeah. But then Reg reacts the wrong way to Parris's very reasonable offer, which is we'll review this. Yeah. You know? And he comes back the next day. Here you go. It's been reviewed like how much faster do you want, you know, so it sort of then goes to like this obsession that was mentioned, right? At the beginning act, you know, I become obsessed with the Voyager. And there's the output that I think we need to question. And that's where like, can Pete really judge the output? And is he one to say, Reg, you're spending too much time? I don't know because his output has led to evidence and connect communicating with Voyager. And even when Reg is talking to Troy, he's putting forth his evidence of I'm finding solutions. I'm getting good ideas going to the holidays. So why can I use it as a tool? Like all of his rationales seem reasonable. So can we still say it's just his passion project or is he really obsessed? Yeah. Where's that line? Well, you know, would be a good way to help determine that line is if there was continued mental health support for Reg Barclay, now that he's a pathfinder and not on the enterprise. On the enterprise, I love all these plot lines with him and he's a very well developed and very well used character on TNG. And he's got an arc and he overcomes these things that are a problem. So it makes me wonder what happened in the meantime, in the four or five years ish that he's off the enterprise, he's back on earth, he's assigned to this project. Did everybody just kind of forget, did nobody at Starfleet say, oh, hey, you know what? This was really working for you on the enterprise. You've made such great strides. You're able to do these things. You have so much to offer. Let's make sure that we maintain that while you're on this other project. So anytime Star Trek does this where you establish, hey, there are mental health resources available for you and they're really working well, but then somehow we forget. And you know, look, I get that it is a bit of a contrivance for the story that we need to tell here, but if this were real, it would certainly make me wonder. Yeah, the supports that you would have, I think, would transfer to, well, to follow him, basically, you know, and it's, it's, what's interesting now, bring that up again because Pete does say, do you need counseling? What's going on here? And again, which led me to believe did Pete call Troy in to visit? I was thinking that too, because I just didn't know where did Troy come in? I like this. I like this now with what's going on with Reg and look, it's just, it is a given for the episode to work the way that it does. He had this counseling on the enterprise. He was very comfortable on the enterprise. He grew into his role there. And now he's not now, now something has disconnected there. I think his fantasy life is understandable. It is fantastical, but what is at the heart there is what he expresses to Troy very beautifully in their exchange that he, he needs these few specific things, which is to be included and to be respected and to have this place where he and his skills are useful. And it makes me think about Star Trek kind of in the big picture, which is that part of the appeal, part of the fantasy of this future world, is that everyone has a place and everyone gets to lead a fulfilling life based on their interests, based on their abilities. But here's this guy now that twice at least since we've caught up with him has slipped through the cracks that way. And it makes me think, well, okay, if he's the one guy, it means we're catching him each time. But where were the stop gaps to catch him before we got to this, you know, because what he wants is I think we can all understand it, right? Absolutely. Oh my gosh. What if they had a storyline of catching those who slipped through the cracks in the new Starfleet Academy, like that would be so important of, you know, catching them and supporting them through to be productive and healthy human beings? Oh, I love that. I think of my Star Trek family as this place to be included, of those who can accept me. I feel at home respected. I love that about our Star Trek community. Yeah. And that thing that Barkley says is exactly what I feel within my Star Trek family. So yeah, I agree with you on that point. I want to bring up something that you mentioned in the last segment about Barkley. How did you describe it? The empty chair? What is the, the phrasing around that? It was such a cool thing. And I think your mind and my mind went to the same place, which is using AI. If we put this in a contemporary context. So again, Barkley's not cutting the support that he needs. He's not able to connect with people on his team to be the sounding board, to respect his ideas. So I fully get it. I'm going to go to a place where somebody will respect my ideas and just hear me out. Right? AI, of course, exists in many forms now and it is still very much in the birth stage. It is, you know, based on statistical models and commonly, you know, a lot of people use chat GPT as a way to summarize articles and just collect a huge amount of data. And it's all, yeah, like it's, it's all statistical models of, of where words fall. Right? It's not always correct to be sure that, that much is certain. But, but here's the thing though, as a sounding board, as just a way to hash out ideas for you to sit down in front of a computer and say, I want to talk about this. I want to work through these ideas. That is exactly what I'm seeing Barkley do with the holodeck version of the Voyager crew. They're just there to sort of take what he's saying, say it back to him, maybe with a little additional context, just a little bit of rephrasing that gets his mind working to solve the problem. Right? Yes, that's exactly what when he was, yeah, in the holodeck and was coming down to, well, we need to minimize and keep, you know, come up with the micro wormhole. And because when I was watching that, I was like, why is he even wasting his time here because those holodeck programs can't think like he can. They're not going to come up with a solution because they're not human, right? It's a program. But what you said, they're going to hear what he says, regurgitate it and spit it back in different words. And that can be so helpful to just get a different perspective. It's a very valuable tool. I just saw today that there is a profile now, I think it's on Instagram. That's A.I. Completely. Oh. Question, John, would you interact with a completely A.I. Profile? Interesting. Okay. I guess I could never say never that there is something kind of weird about it, but kind of going back to what Reg is doing here, it's all about the context, isn't it? Because the context is, I know why I'm using this tool to get some useful information back to me to make me think about something differently. I think that could be wildly helpful. If the purpose is just to fool me to think I'm having a conversation with somebody that I'm not interested. I believe with A.I. and with social media, it is the intent that you have that's going to make it meaningful or destructive. I mean, you've got to really understand your purpose before realizing what is its purpose. Barclay is joining a proud tradition of Starfleet officers who go road with no consequences. There should be a flag for that. All right, so here we are emerging on the other side of the microwormhole with our thoughts, our ideas filtered down to the bare essence. We get to make a final determination here, does Pathfinder hold up? And more importantly, what did we learn at the end of the day? Are there morals, meanings, messages that we can take away? So Amy, I'm just going to dive right in and say that I really enjoy this episode. I think that there is certainly, there's a bit of context working for me for this and I think for you for this, which is our known and beloved characters and that helps. We get that definitely, but it's also just a nice episode to change up the pace and change up the expectation a little bit. Let's spend some time in a guy's apartment talking about this and talking about his mental health and talking about how the pressures of the job are affecting him. Like that's just a bold way to step away from the weekend, week out. Here's a new alien. Here's a new planet. Here's a new adventure. We're going to put the brakes on, we're going to tell a different story for a moment. And I like it when a show can be that bold. Thematically, I think there is a very strong parallel here to the DS9 episode. It's only a paper moon. Even if the tone here is a bit lighter, obviously what Dog was going through with his holodeck obsession was treated with a bit more gravitas and rightfully so. I really like the consistency with Barclay's story and his holodeck adventures/addiction. If you're going to do this with anybody, you need to do it with him. Now Barclay is a character that we know and we love and part of the reason that we love him is that he is relatable. He's not the smoothest. He can be awkward and he's trying hard and he doesn't always get the recognition that he deserves. So there's a little bit of a fantasy element here that the odd man out the peculiar one who has passed by and ridiculed that he is the one in the end who is right all along. And there is something really satisfying about that kind of story, whether it is realistic or not, you know, we can certainly ask ourselves that. But there is something satisfying about that kind of story. Even if we have to get there by maybe undoing some of the progress that Barclay had made. And I think Amy, as you pointed out, very wisely that there are certain things that don't make sense here. However, I think I sort of let those, if we even want to call them plot holes, I think I give them a little bit of a pass because we are so connected to the characters and we are so connected to the goal of this episode. So I think it works very well, but I think it works very well given all of the context of what we know from before. How about you, Amy? Yeah, this episode really does hold up. The shift in storytelling happens at a really good time because we know our Voyager characters and then to see almost an entire episode of these holiday characters is so fun because we get to compare and contrast, "Oh, that's not Belana, oh, that's, you know, like, it's so cute." Right. So we get that and we have the history with the characters where it's important and it's fun to us. The creativity of this techno-babble of making a mini wormhole to communicate is brilliant. I love it. I love that about Star Trek and they do all the talking and it's like, "Yeah, it should work." Of course, it makes me sound smart, you know, so really holds up with the science part of it. Excellent. And again, the mental health of it all really shines through. Again, a big counselor, Troy Fan, she does amazing counseling and we get to see all sides of Barkley, we get to see it from his boss side, his, the admiral side, the mental health counselor side, his rationale, his thinking, like it really is well-rounded. Again, just those shortcomings of, "Well, we don't really, you know, we've talked about it before," but those we can overlook. I would like to see like, "Why couldn't he have done it? What happens to Reg?" Right. He broke in. What are the consequences? Do we allow them to pass because the outcome? So do the ends justify the means? Like where is that that might have been told in nowadays, Trek? Not so much here because they just tied it up with a bow and he's, you know, happy to be on a date. Yeah. Okay. That's a good point. Let's give a... Well, and that brings us to morals, meanings, messages. What do we take away? What do we learn? I feel like this is partly a tech-to-tech episode. As you mentioned it, you know, the science is really at the forefront here. We got to solve a problem. And this is also partly a feel-good episode. It's partly just a reunion across over a hangout episode with two characters that we really like. And there is a lot to like because of that. And it may not be heavy on the type of moral meaning messages that we get in other episodes because I feel like we've already explored some of these areas with obsession, addiction, losing oneself in the fantasy of the holodact. We have had episodes that were solely about that. Those are all excellent and rich topics, but this is not really about that. This is more about just kind of pulling Reg back up, giving him a moment. And maybe if there's a message here, I kind of turn that back around on his superior. Well, look, I'd say to Reg, please, these people are supporting you. Maybe not in the way that you want exactly and maybe not on the timeframe that you want, but you got the meeting and they said they're going to review your work. So we need to come up with some ways to kind of deal with that, deal with his reaction to that. But I would also turn this back around on his superiors and remind them, look, you got to give people the chance to work the way that they know how, give them the support they need and realize that those differences that Reg brings here, those are valuable too. So maybe he is trying to fit that square peg into the round hole, the round peg into the square hole, whatever it is, but that's okay. He's got a great mind and he's got someone to contribute here. And that type of thing needs to be supported along with his mental health because in the end, it's everybody's contribution that will solve this problem. What about you, Amy? Yeah, I mean, that is Star Trek at its philosophy of bringing everyone together. That's what Reg does with his holodeck Voyager crew, you know, to get these ideas. That's what they're trying, Starfleet is trying to do to communicate with Voyager with the whole Pathfinder project. So this idea of communicating and how to present oneself, how far do you go? You go crazy and into the holodeck and these are my friends or this is reality. Yeah, it's been discussed, but I think I guess if I had to say the message is communicating in a way that you can be heard. I get the wormhole to communicate to Voyager. I need to communicate. This is my idea and how we're going to do it. I love that. It's a stretch with this episode. I will, but that's okay. It's great words from counselor Amy. By the way, any of you who are not seeing the video of this and you're listening to the audio, what you're not seeing is the hashtag Deanna Sherp that Amy is wearing right now. So definitely a connection to this episode. Amy, thank you again so much. Mission Log is produced by Roddenberry Entertainment. If you'd like to support us directly, you can do so at patreon.com/missionlog for early access to shows and the Hopping Mission Log Discord. Our website is missionlogpodcast.com and for more Star Trek news and discussion, visit trekmovie.com. Now for our next Mission Log episode, Fairhaven. Some of the music for Mission Log provided by Warp11, online at warp11.com. Social thanks to consulting producers, Matt Esposito, Homer Frezel, Rand Hurl, Tom Kozak, Julie Miller, Mike Richards, Mike Shadwell, Paul Shadwell, and David Tucketchy. This episode ends on a real cliffhanger, Will Neelix the Chillaxon ever meet Neelix the Cap and who sheds more? And transmission. (dramatic music) (air whooshing)
