Alright friends,
We are throwing out some big ideas about a big topic. This is our continued deep dive into the Enneagram Instincts.
We are setting a foundation, pitching a runway to take off from, and we hope you jump in!
Around the Circle: An Enneagram Podcast
Instincts | "Self-Preservation" | Part II
I'm Jeff Cook, and I'm TJ Wilson, and this is Around the Circle. The Enneagram is a map of the human personality. It's a tool for navigating relationships. It creates language for what motivates us and helps us look at the way we look at everything else. Most importantly, the Enneagrams in America sometimes you need help seeing yourself. My name is Jeff Cook. I'm a philosopher in Greeley, Colorado with me is TJ Wilson, Businessman, lover of theology, and Enneagram Ninja. Hello, boss. Hey, hey. It feels like this is part two, and oftentimes part two comes just right after part one. But the last time you and I recorded was like a month ago. I know, right? So it may feel like it's back to back, but... Sure. How was touring New England? So TJ, you will know that I'm a lifelong baseball fan. Yes, I do know that. You will also know that my kids and wife don't really care about baseball. I also know that, yeah. We went to a Red Sox game at the Fenway Park. It was nearly sold out. I was shocked because I'm used to going to Coorsfield, which is normally half full on a good day. Right, right. Yeah. Well, my wife and youngest got $9 tickets in the student section. Perfect. They're surrounded by yahoos. I got the ticket at the door for 50 bucks. I was right next to first base. Nice. And they had the experience. Sure, yeah. They had the mystical baseball experience that you have to have in order to actually get drawn in. Sure. And they walked out and we met up. They bought a jersey. They bought a hat. They were all in on... So I was happy to convert with them. They converted into baseball fans. I converted into being a Red Sox fan. I grew up as a Yankees fan and then transitioned once the Colorado team popped in. Sure. We haven't done anything for 16 years. So Rockies, I'm sorry you lost me. It's been 16 years since she cared. And so I'm going to go going with the Irish drunken idiots that were... Hey, that's my people. Me and the Ginger's. Your wife sent me a photo from that game. Oh, yeah. And I immediately got bored. TJ, I love the hell out of our last episode. I'm not going to lie. There are very few times that I'm impressed by your work that I come with tag along for. But that episode that you did last time, it was fantastic. Hey, we were both on that episode. We have... So dear listener, we have about 5,000 people to listen. 2000 ducked out as we've done this Instincts podcast because we warned them, "Hey, you need five years." So I was like, "People actually listen to us. I hope they come back." But yeah, before we jump into Instincts, again, the one rule is, you know, you should probably do the other Enneagram work for about five years till you get into this stuff. Because this stuff is going to get messy. Yeah, we recently had a... I'm telling your story. We recently had a group discussion about this topic. And like some of the realities of getting this deep to make mean, you get into some territory where it starts to look like other stuff. Like you behave this way in these situations and this way in these situations. And like, it just, you know, it's just messy. There's a lot going on with these Instincts. So we're talking about the self-preservation Instinct. Do listen, obviously, to part one of this. But just to build on what we did there, we think that your dominant Instincts or the Instincts are more like gears in a car that you shift into in your life to get you where you need to go. We all have different circumstances at hand. We all shift in different ways to navigate the world in terms of getting our motive. Our motive is the target. Our motive tells us where we're going. You know, when you arrive in your car, your motive is targeting that. But how you drive, how the car is constructed really matters as well. Instincts, you know, it's essentially like gears. You're putting it into second gear because it's the best way for you to get from here to there. And for many of us, we get really comfortable in what we call our dominant Instinct. And but all of us have access to all of the Instincts. And so before I go into all the Instincts, anything we're saying on that metaphor? Yeah, just that we feel and use them throughout our lives. And because these are Instincts about survival, the survival of the self, the survival of the group, the survival of the species, you know, like that. This is about how we keep going, how we keep living. And we learn how to sort of flex these muscles. We learn how to use these gears in the different spaces in our lives and and I'll come back to this over and over again. This is my my common refrain in this. It is not the case that we are that everyone who is dominant with social with self preservation. It is not the case that everyone who is dominant with self preservation is a loner. It's not the case that everyone who's dominant with social wants to be at parties all the time. Like these gears come out how we've decided to use them and we'll get to see a lot of that play out. Man, yeah, building on this, the Instincts are primarily about our social energy, how I engage the group, how I engage another and how I engage myself. Self preservation is primarily about how I engage myself, protect myself, think about myself, consider myself, my energies, my resources first. If it's a dominant instinct, it's I'm going here first. But sometimes we go here because we need to think by ourselves. So everybody has access to self preservation and as we go around the circle, this is what it looks like for your type to go to self preservation. Yep. Well, let's talk about fives then. Great. The thing about fives and we've already talked about nines and fors is that they are a withdrawn type and self preservation and withdrawing can look similar. Yeah, but there's really important things that need to be distinguished here. And so for our purposes throughout as we're talking about all the types in self preservation, what TJ and I have tried to do is put together a list that makes a distinction between being withdrawn in your stance and getting what you want by taking a step back and a very different thing, which is the self preservation instinct. So just to play this out real quick, self preservation instinct is about creating boundaries. It often is highly focused on your home and nesting. It's often very focused on physical and emotional regulation. It often is very focused on independence. You'll notice the with the withdrawn types, fours, fives, nines aren't always independent, right? But if you're self prez, if you are exercising your self preservation muscles, independence comes first and so that can look like escaping. It can look like preparation. It can especially look like turning inward and doing the work of the soul. Self preservation is about being risk averse. Fours, fives, nines can all have a healthy measure of risk. But in terms of getting into self preservation, risk of versedness arises. And so that means minimizing discomfort that can mean avoidance of certain types of people. And lastly, self preservation is about assets. And that can be financial. That can be tools that can be social alliances and networks that you are invested in. All of these make a clear distinction between the withdrawn stance and the self preservation instinct. Any thoughts on that? Yeah, I think we're going to see that particularly that that part about assets a lot in all four of these types today because when we're thinking about fives, we start with the head triad, the fear triad, the data driven triad, five, sixs and sevens, all have that as part of their normal filter. Anyway, this is sort of like the first filter. And this means that they're future planners. They're concerned about safety and security and preparation and highly in tune with their resources. So all three of five, sixs and sevens are part of that. Eights dip their toe in that as well. We'll talk about that when we get there. But when we specifically looking at fives, there's sort of this with this idea of withdrawal being part of it. They're also like, it's almost like they're pushing farther into some of those aspects, but it's for the preservation. It's not necessarily in order to get what they want. It's to make sure they stay alive. I feel like when I think about fives, my assumption is that their social energy is going to be more self preservation is. But the two fives that I'm closest to are not dominant here. Right. My child really uses this gear only when they come home and go downstairs and they enter their sanctuary. They enter their bedroom that they have clearly kind of outlined. This is my stuff and the stuff that makes me feel comfortable. The stuff that like, there's a lot of recovery that takes place in their bedroom and a lot of that centers on video games. They have a very large bed. They inherited a mattress that was mine and but it's just this enormous king's eyes mattress, but like it fills up their space. And yeah, and even the turning inward, I think comes across for them in that space, but they're not dominant here, but they do use this gear and they use it when it's time to kind of recover some of the energy. Right. This is a fives who have a natural hyper awareness of their limited amount of energy like they we talk about the bucket when the bucket depletes, it's empty and they they leave and and fives who find themselves in this self preservation space. Like that bucket is moves to the forefront of the mind. Like it is so much more. They are so much more aware of their energy the what they have to give to other people and what they are intentionally keeping private like that we talked about boundaries. This this is a big place where boundaries come in is that they need to have their own private space because that is the only place where they know for sure they are safe. Sometimes just put a footnote on it. Sometimes that's not physical. Sometimes that's a mental check out and they go right mentally into a space that they've created and just you don't see how much right because they're in their head right. They're quote unquote in their head. Yeah, chestnut in her book. She calls this castle. Yeah, and I think of like, you know, a castle is protected from the outside world by a moat and a drawbridge and a and alligators and a great big wall and guards and I also think of mind palaces, which is a memory technique, but it's also like. I know some fives who can sit and just think for a very long time because there's a lot of space in their own mind palaces, you know, like like they have a reading nook set up because they have the ability to. Withdrawal if you will into this space where they are. Separated they are boundary from everyone else because they're inside their own head and that's they they have complete control and autonomy in that space and like this is safe from the outside world and when when people. Interrupt that space then then the shackles can come up like that's that's one place where where they get a little irritated with other people is when someone tries to to interrupt that space for them, right? All the types can have the self-pres spiritual practices that they may employ that are more retreat looking, but when I think of these things like nines and fives that seem to embrace them very cleanly quickly and it's almost like here's part of my identity. So I know so many nines who just love the outdoors. Yep. And like that's the retreat is I go into spaces where there's no chaos. Yeah. And this and everything's fairly harmonious. Similar move for the five in terms of I go into the space where oh here things are their solitude. They're no one's expecting anything from me. I can be in an atmosphere where my mind can be pleasantly enjoying my observations and it's not the, you know, it's not the static. It's not the, you know, a lot of times fives minds can move so quickly through things that make them feel uncomfortable. Yeah, you can't escape your negative meditations sometimes as a five, but getting into the outdoors that can be one of those places. I know some fives that are like this is how, you know, I get out of the negativity in my brain, right? Right. That that withdrawal that that sort of step back that is more about self preservation than it is about stance is because fives are so aware of their energy. They're the mental resources that they have to interact with the outside world. They have to find places where that energy where they have more control over that energy than the outside world does. Yep. And sometimes that is an internal retreat. Sometimes it's going into your bedroom and your basement where you're sort of blocked off from the rest of your family. Sometimes it's escaping the city and being out it for some fives, it may be walking around the city like New York city walking around by themselves and just sort of like being in the city, there can be a level of comfort within that, but there's still a retreat because in moving around that space they're still guarded from having to give more than they want to. I think that's right. And actually a lot of us just having left New York city when you're in New York, oftentimes you can just kind of create a little mental bubble around yourself. It's like there's so many people that it's it's actually easier to isolate right right. When I talk about the independence side here, one place that vibes can really be independent is in their work. The image that self preservation may mean that I'm working a lot as an escape as a way of gaining. Well, as you kind of said, like the castle walls go up. If I if I have chosen oftentimes many types will choose jobs intentionally that are isolating right, you know, that this is my space. I carve it out just being able to tell your spouse and kids. Hey, I would love to do that, but I'm at work. That's a move to self preservation move right. I don't want to give energy to other things because oftentimes we all know this well, many of us know, especially if you like your job, oftentimes work is a whole lot more enjoyable than some of your duties, responsibilities and, you know, the social necessities of life, right, right. Well, and for a lot of fives, that work is feeding into a resource so that there's research. There's knowledge gained. There's there's something about having and using a particular kind of information that is is life giving for fives and as types who are naturally trying to be observers of the world and not part of it, that being isolated in work is is can sometimes be a necessity because not only are you trying to keep your influence out of the data, but also you have to keep everyone else's influence out of the data and the only way to do that is to work alone, right, thinking about about information as a resource. Like this is another thing that they are very protective of. Yeah, you know, if you're in the head, try out your thinking about what might happen. And if you find a lot of value in your work as something that's going to protect you from your future fears, the preparation side comes in with self preservation. You know, preparation is a huge element in self preservation and that would be a real sweet spot there for right for five who wants to say, well, no, but I need to prepare for these things and you know, the byproduct, the fruit of that is your isolating and and there's there's a I think a big part of combining this self preservation with the sort of natural draw to a withdrawing kind of stance there. There's a level of secrecy and privacy needed here. That is like your information is a resource and and you need to keep this space blocked off because not only are are they withdrawing as a stance, but also like wanting to self preserve, you need to keep your resources safe for whatever future thing you might be worried about. Yeah. Yeah, there's and and it gets interesting here. I think there are other types who win gathering resources. They are looking at a sort of set safety net, right? Like this is the thing that I need is the safety net, but fives who are constantly reevaluating their resources need a safety net and they don't necessarily have like a fixed number. They just want to make sure that that safety net is going to be there and that also means that they can continue to acquire more and more safety net. Yeah, this we talk about the the passion, the the struggle of greed or avarice with fives and this is one of the places where it can come in. They keep all of that to themselves in order to protect it from the outside world. And then when you really add in this self preservation instinct, now that that thing that they're keeping that safety net is not just a safety net, but it's it's something they must have to ensure that they keep moving forward. Right. This is a necessity for the preservation of life. But I hear here and this isn't necessarily negative, but I hear the opportunity for a lot of excuses being made for the five to those that they love. This is why I'm isolating. Yep, you know, and it's it's justifying, you know, a very independent posture toward the people in your life as it were. This work is meaningful. You know, this work is going to keep us safe. This work is, you know, et cetera. But it may it all all of the types need to be aware of the low side of their instincts and that and and there. There really are some pitfalls for self-pres instincts in terms of, you know, as we talked about last time, the self-centeredness that can either be intentional or unintentional. Right. Yeah, because just to move into risk avoidance, you know, people are messy and, you know, and relationships are risky. They're they're not always comfortable. And so that aversion and desiring comfort that can come in for the five as well. Right. I suppose we said this with nine say there's there is something worth on since we're talking about negatives. There is something to be talked about in terms of chemical abuse by both nines and fives in particular in my head in terms of the ways that alcohol and narcotics might be utilized if you're in a self-reservation space and you're a nine or five. Yeah. Well, and especially if if you're, you know, more unhealthy with your with your substance use, it can become habitual to the point of being part of what keeps you safe. Yeah, because you don't know what's on the other side of that. Last thing I had in this, I think we see this on a lot of fives is just their reluctance to hear the wisdom of external sources that aren't just like sheer data. Sure. Fives often know everything, you know, right? The word that I wrote down, the phrase that I wrote down, which is the exact same thought is intellectual authority. The rejection that particularly self-preservation leaning fives may have a really hard time with their doctors because if you probe just a little bit, it's pretty easy to find out that you're smarter than your doctor, right? You know, and like, I don't mean that as a slight to doctors. I mean that as a like, this is the reality of a lot of fives living in this world is that they, whether true or not, they believe that they are authorities on the subjects that they've looked into. Right, right. And if they've looked into the medical field in which they're trying to experience, like if they've looked into the thing that they have and they go to their doctor, there's a reasonable chance that they have more fresh information about the thing that they're talking about than their doctor does. And now their doctor has lost all intellectual authority. And there's a boundary up to things go through my mind there. One is the coping style for fives is that they solve problems with with data and what counts as evidence is going to be up to the five. Right. The other thing that goes off through my head, and I think there's a little bit more core is that I think fives want to be self-sufficient. And that's what's going on there. Yeah, the real desire for self-sufficiency, especially I'm going to live this out, think through this, get to the places that make me feel comfortable intellectually first. And so I don't need your advice. Just kind of naturally flows out of that. Yeah. Well, and I would take that even a step further and the self, the preservation of the self for a type that is prone to a bit of isolation anyway may like come with a pretty significant amount of limiting their own wants and needs. If if I don't need anything that I don't ever have to rely on anyone, if I can take care of my own stuff, then I don't ever have to go to a doctor who knows less than I do anyway. Suppose on the flip side, fives generally can have a real difficult time getting into their body, caring about their body. I imagine the self-preservation instinct might be helpful there could be. You might you may this I don't think this is required, but it may be the case that you think through, you know, your nutrition, your your health and the sort of activities. It may be the case that exercise being spurred to exercise actually comes out of the, you know, a self preserving place. Sure. And at the same time, there is this tremendous tension to be managed that limits the amount of energy that a five could spend on this. And that would be the flip side. Yeah. Yeah. Preservation of the energy might mean that you skip the things that are necessary to take care of your body. Take way too much energy in time. Right. What to prepare a salad. Yeah. I know eating healthy just takes so much time and energy and money and it's just easier to eat crappy. And you know how your body responds to that. So you can manage your own resources based on your own personal experience might have some data to back up your bad habits to that's a thing. I say we're saying this on the negative there there clearly are real positives for fives and self preservation space. For me, some of the things I'm most envious of the fives seem to have on this front is the ability to say here are my friends and here are people that are acquaintances, but do not deserve my energy. Yeah. You know, as it were, there seems to be a real investment that can take place and even fives of this may be sexual five tendency more that you would they would allow themselves to go deeper with those relationships. But on the self preservation side, at least creating the boundaries, yeah, and that can be very, very helpful. Yeah. Yeah, the there you are not alone. There are a lot of people in the world and several of the other types in particular who really struggle with not giving good energy to bad sources or bad recipients. Self preservation means that you don't give your energy to things that don't keep you alive and fives in particular. This is a place where they have no qualms drawing lines there. That they're big benefit can be if you're in a society that's very healthy or if you're in a business that's already very healthy, having very conservative people. And I say that not politically, but having people who just are pretty risk averse and just will say we don't need to change anything right now, right? You know, our company is beautiful. Our country is beautiful. We are allocating our assets in very healthy wise ways that will produce over time that we just don't need to risk. Like having those people can be really a treasure if you, if, you know, if you're in a bot that's good as it were, right, right? Well, and when it's a five, you know that they have the data to back that up. Yeah, when it's a nine saying we don't have to change anything. There's a good chance that that nine just doesn't want to do any of the work. It's not about whether the change would be good or not. It's that the work sucks. Yeah, with a five, if they are, there is a much better chance of a five having good reasons and being able to lay out those reasons in a way that makes sense. Here's the future threats. Here's the assets that we have. We ought to play it conservatively because that's our best play for the long term, right? For the long haul, right? If it, if it were the case that their fear spiked, that five is going to go into seven space and probably get some energy up and say, you know, we probably need to move. It's one of the great things about being a five in, in these spaces is, you know, if you're, if your fear isn't, you know, isn't surging, you're pretty much our grounding presence on these fronts, right? Anyway, positives for the self-pres instinct for in fives. Anything else for fives? Oh, I'm sure there's lots more we could say, but we don't know any of it because particularly self-preservation fives. Don't share it with the world. You guys were more open. We would be a little talk more. I always spend a lot of time on fives. Sixes, sixes that push into the self-preservation instinct. Hey, hey, TJ. Yeah, you married one of these. Dude, when I was listening to the, uh, the episode of art of growth that was the self-preservation six panel, I laughed so hard so often because these people were saying out loud things that me and my wife have talked about. And it's just amazing. Wonderful. I live with a self-preservation dominant six and it's great. Well, I could throw out some thoughts, but I assume you're an expert here. So go to it. What do you see? So here we are in the center of the head triad, the fear triad, the future planning triad, and we find ourselves with the fear type of that triad. So this is a traditional teaching of how the Enneagram presents sixes. They're, they're fear-based. They're the fear in the fear triad and they're the fear type. I like doubt a lot more. Doubt is a much more interesting word for these people. And, uh, when we talk about self-preservation in the six, this is one of the spaces where that doubt is loudest and largest and you see it playing out in all of their interactions with other people in their frustration with their own space in the way that they manage their resources, they are doubt is the thing that drives most of their decisions because they need to be prepared, but they do not trust themselves and they do not trust anything around them to, to ensure that preparation to ensure that safety and security. So they're moving toward that, like doing the things that are needed to, to gain that preparation, to gain that security. Want to start off with a compliment for, for sixes in this space. Oftentimes the people I'm intimidated by most are this person who seems like they have their emotions regulated. They are put together. They are putting forward an appearance of stability and they have very clear boundaries, which they will be happy to communicate to you about where they feel comfortable. Yeah. And that person is always really intimidating to me. And I'm sure it's the case on the flip side. As you were saying, the anxiety is buzzing right in their head. Right. But I don't see that. Yeah. This, the thing that every single one of those people says to the people that are closest to them is if only everyone knew. Yes. Exactly. Right. There's an inner reality that isn't showcased because part of the security is in maintaining an appearance of someone who is secure. Yep. No. Goes toward one of the tools for sixes in this space is social alliances. And so you need to come across as competent, cool, not somebody who's going to get kicked off the island. You know, and like this sort of six seems to me in an again, a place I'm kind of just navigate social settings with a ton of class. Right. And because so much of their energy is poured into that. Yeah. As a tool. Well, and the it's almost like the for a lot of these types, the the social space that they occupy is a big part of their protection. Yeah. The team will protect me because I'm part of the team. And then they really work to to ground themselves. Right. Right. And and I would also say that that team is usually a small group. Sure. Like my my wife is it is a teacher at a high school, a public high school, her self preservation means that as much as she is part of the 90 person faculty, she is actually part of the art department. There's four of them. And and that team is one of the most important things about her job because as part of that group, she is like that is that is her safety, that is her security, that is like knowing that she is a good teacher, knowing that she has a job that that main maintains in perpetuity that she she will keep working and building on this department and this program. That team has to be solid. Yeah. Love that. I imagine beyond the team, she's very aware of who her boss is. Yep. And very absolutely and very aware of the investments that she's making in order to showcase herself is is indispensable. Yep. At some levels. Yeah. And even aware of what that might look like, how does she need to earn her boss's affections at that. Yeah. We talk about the devil's advocate side of of sixes and sixes in self preservation space are much less likely to push against authority. Yeah. There you go. It does not mean that they automatically trust all authority. It's just they're not necessarily going to be the one that speaks up in the staff meeting. You know, they they're just that they are less likely to trust that authority and put more energy into the smaller group that they're a part of. This is really one of the downsides for sixes in my mind. And this is probably something I'm a verse to, but it seems like if the bullies of the world, the who are looking for people to take advantage of like sixes can be natural targets for this person. And if you can, and I spent in here, here's the move. If it's the case that the instincts are not part of your type, it's not a subtype. If it's if it's an instinct that emerges for the type, then sometimes sixes, whoever you are, can get beaten into a spot where they're self preserving. And once you hit self preserving, then you become easier to control and manipulate, right. And and a lot of sixes in the world can can can do things that they normally would not do, right? Except for, you know, the bully is pushing into that space. And there's a there's a sense of almost like child likeness. Yeah, that comes out in the self preservation space. And it's it's not it's not childish. It's presenting yourself as someone who needs to be protected. It's it's and not even necessarily like being vulnerable in being outwardly vulnerable, but in being around in a way that endures people to like that. Obviously I want to protect this thing, you know, like that this this person is is is is close to me in a way that like I want to make sure that they are safe. And and this is like this shows up in a lot of self preservation six ness love that and and it's as you were saying on the flip side of that it is most easy to take advantage of children. Right. Right. Yeah. And that that's compounded some with, you know, doubting your own mental life and intuitions. Obviously some of the struggles that sixes will have the. This is where I suppose to fight against this. The independence that comes with self preservation may be a real resource for for some sixes in this space. If you if you're in this space, what does this look like? Preparations going to I imagine be a huge part of this six is inventory. Financial planning, home management, you know, I have stored, you know, 144 cans of chicken soup in the basement alongside the tub of water. You know, sort of, I mean, there's all the what might go wrong. The six is going to shift into, well, here's self preservation. And I it's the independent side. I suppose is what's going on in my head. If they shift into that space and get independent, then it's going to be, well, I need to make sure that I have the resources to ensure that I feel safe. And so right. What is it I need to stock up on? Right. And I don't I I don't think that's necessarily like like prepper level, like I'm sure there are a lot of self preservation sixes that are, you know, at least dip their toe and in prepper in like the I could see male sixes in particular. Sure going down that. Yeah. Yeah. But I also think that like the having the things for which you have already planned, like this is this is something I never learned meal prep. Like that's just not a thing that has existed in my brain. Ever, but my wife has been making a weekly meal plan for like 30 years. Like she she is very concerned about making sure that we at least have a plan for every meal for the week. And we have all of the things that we need in order to go along with that plan that doesn't necessarily mean that's what we're going to do on Wednesday afternoon and on Friday evening, but we have the food that was planned for those days. Right. Like there there's a the preparedness, the independence in that space means that the six has all of the pieces needed for the plan. Right. They won't need to go to the store to have someone else like to to go borrow a cup of sugar or like find the thing that is missing from the recipe. They have all of that prepared because this is part of making sure that they stay alive. Yeah, is sticking to the plan. Yeah, when that transitioning to the work as escape side of things, this may not be an escape, but it certainly can be a self preserving move to earn the security that you need as a six. And so I'm going to I'm going to exhaust myself at work in order to ensure that I've earned everything I need to feel. Feel good feels secure in the world. Right. Seems to me to be one of the things that may materialize in this type. Yeah. And if anyone ever comes and checks on me, I need to be able to show them that I check all the boxes. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's a it's a practicality like they like everything that there there's not a lot of sort of like abstract trying new things. There's not a lot there's we're going to talk about risk soon, but like there's there's not a lot of branching out into new territory with when the self preservation instinct is is in place because all of those things, you can't be prepared for something new. Right. When I hear there's your orientation to time is very present. What do I need to do now? And for the six, it's going to be, well, I need to follow the rules. I need to do my job. I need to check all the boxes and check all the boxes. Yeah. And yeah, and you beat me to it, but the thing that screams off the list for me is risk of versedness. And so like if you if you're anxious and you know, the risk adverse in this may come out for the self-presed six in a way where they are screaming about future threats. And so like we don't want to roll the dice because X, Y and Z might happen. Right. And for a lot of self preservation sixes, there's screaming it's not the right word there. Well, but it's like it's even an acknowledgement that like we're too far into this already. And then some of the overthinking and the unproductive thinking come in and also like the yeah, yeah, the what you need is strategic planning from this person. You need again, the pre we've already talked about preparedness but that's where they may actually this the the six really shifting in self preservation mode may say, let's do some, you know, I would love to to help with the strategic planning about all the future problems that are family, our company, you know, our government of that we're addressing. Right. My wrong that feels that feels right to me, especially if you say that like because that's the cool side of this type in my mind who look like to have it all together and then they say, you know what, we really do need to have a meeting of the of the heads to address these problems in the next two to three years and like I'll hear that person go, yeah, you're exactly right. We probably should be thinking about that. You know, but but I think the the context is really important there because if they don't feel safe to stick their neck out and say that we need to make these plans, then they won't. Sure, but they will spin out about it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I suppose I'm thinking of like the guy who works at the CIA. Sure. Who is a self-presed six who may be really great on these friends. Like a terrorist events can happen in the next three years. So let's and they perhaps feel comfortable enough and perhaps have been validated in their job to say, you know, hey, Charlie, what you think we should do? Let's get sure. They're not going to lead that meeting probably, I assume. Yeah. Oh, yeah, no way, they don't want to lead that. But they may be a voice of concern behind the scenes. And I'm thinking about like so the person at the CIA who's self preservation dominant and they're six and yeah, and they are concerned about this terrorist attack. But let's say the new CIA director is right in their job because their cousins with the boss and sure their their previous employment experience was managing a bowling alley. Right. Yeah, that person is not even a little bit trustworthy. And you're the self preservation six is not going to put themselves in the crosshairs of someone who doesn't know how to do their job. Yeah, correct. Thing it would be I think my head was going towards was it look like for a six pushing into self preservation who's just really great and comfortable in their vocation. Yeah. Yeah. The strategic planning, I suppose, I may I may be wrong on that. I mean, well, the strategic planning is important and I think it is so much more about the six like in the self preservation space. It's so much more about the six is personal. Lively hood. Yeah, then it necessarily is about the bigger stuff. I suppose jumping to the end here, it seems like no type experiences the need for social alliances in the same way that sixes in self preservation would social alliances are going to be almost everything. Yeah, to a six who pushes into self preservation. Right. And so and yeah, a big part of that is because the self doubt is so big right in this space that you have to have other other people that help you navigate all of those spaces where you can't effectively engage because you don't trust yourself. Right. So I suppose I'm talking through this behavior wise sixes who are moving towards self preservation that could probably come out in all kinds of different ways. Yeah. Yes, but the but the motive, I suppose, and the influence of the instinct is I suppose is what I'm trying to to showcase and in terms of examples. So but perhaps it's just really worth naming that the social alliances are going to be huge for for sixes in this space. Yeah, because yeah, feeling insecure, they're going to move into, okay, who can I connect to? Right. Who's strong? Yeah. For the last my wife and I have been married for almost nine years. We've been together for like 15 or something. And from the minute we got married, we combined all of our bank accounts and like we're we're fully committed 100% we're on on legal paper. We're basically one person now and I am the one who manages the budget because she either obsesses about it or hands it off to someone else. So she can't. I love that. Yeah, so it's a thing about like resources and and risk aversion and asset management. She can't handle the the stress of ensuring that you have the right financial situation is so much for her that she she can't do that and also live her normal life. Right, right. Is it she'll be really great at naming the potential problems but not trust herself with the solution? Correct. So if you listen to her as a capable person and say, look, I heard I heard your concerns and I got this that will be enough. Yeah, but it's it's it's it's not enough 100% of the time or and it's taken 15 years to get to where we're at like 80%. Sure. I think that's what I got for six is you anything else? I don't think there's anything else I needed to cover. Yeah, no one I think is very helpful. Sevens. Seven. The self-presed seven is an interesting type. I am so excited to talk about the self-presed seven. Yeah. And see, I'm I'm okay. So for the sake of full disclosure, you'll notice how I keep some, you know, falling back into language of other folks who expose who elevate theories that we're not. Elevating so. Yeah, we're both doing that a little bit. It's a I need I need a better phrase than sevens employing their self-presed instinct. Self-presed seven is just quicker than sure. Yeah. So yeah, I feel like we've, you know, we we've laid the groundwork so that people know what we're talking about when we're talking about it. Sevens moving into self-preservation space in that being. Well, I mean, you got that's what comes from mine first here. So we talk about we're still in that head triad. Fear is a big thing. Resource management is a big thing for all three of these types. And we talk about sevens being a voiders of pain and negativity and ensuring that they seek that they have opportunity. They are looking to make sure they are never stuck. Sevens who are self-preservation types can sometimes look a bit more selfish in and amongst all of that. Whereas I think sevens who lean more on social or the sexual bonding instinct, they don't look as selfish. They're much more sort of life of the party. Yeah, but when sevens are sort of dominant in this self-preservation, when they're in this self-preservation space, they are concerned about making sure that their experiences are as enjoyable as possible. Yeah, I was going to build on that. What I see here is that there's probably a scarcity mindset that sevens naturally have, but in self-preservation, that sucker is going to get amplified. Yeah, yeah. And like the idea of like we've all seen movies and tropes and red books about the type of people who are insistent that like every moment is a moment to be lived. Yeah, a lot of those people saying those words might have been self-preservation savages. Sure. Yeah, the self-focus there comes into play. The adventure becomes about my adventure as opposed to our adventure, which is right. The seven will commonly connect to others by pulling them into the adventure, but in self-preservation space, it's my adventure. Right. And you're welcome, but I'm going to ensure that I have the things that I want. That seven on the, on the boundary side may not be a boundary, but the appearance versus reality that we were talking about with sixes here feels like it's the same with sevens. Like they may appear as though, you know, you're the, you're the most interesting person in the world. You're going all these different places by yourself. You know, you are James Bond, just conquering everything. And inwardly, it is scarcity and fear and I must move or else. Right. Yeah, there's a, yeah, thinking about like that, that sort of scarcity mindset being prevalent here, like that I'm sure most of them wouldn't say it, but a lot of them might resonate with the idea that we could all die tomorrow. And so I want this, I don't want to spend any of my resources to have something that's not enjoyable. If we're going to spend resources on this, it better be worth it. Right. Yeah. Right. And, and that, that applies to their inner life as well, but they don't because that fear and the, that scarcity mindset, the, the things that are going on inside are sort of like pushing them in that direction. That there's their internal life is being sort of separated because that, like this is, this is a big place where a lot of the like avoidance of pain and emotional issues, we don't have time to be that unhappy. I don't want to risk being unhappy on my last day on earth. I don't want to, like, like if this is, if I can't ever get this time back, I want it to be good. And, and so pushing away, ignoring, not dealing with the negative side of emotions and, and inner life like that, that comes out in this self-preservation space. My favorite observation here is the move towards independence that happens with sevens here, especially when it comes to health and wellness, because often these sorts of sevens are the ones who have crazy ideas. Right. About how to keep their body healthy. Right. I have, I'm going through this mango therapy right now, getting injections every other week. And I feel fantastic. Is, you know, it's the sort of thing that I can hear. You know, there, there is some sort of, now some things get discovered along the path where you're like yoga really works. Um, but you, you know, that it was, you know, like a seven is discovering sweat, a yoga, like what, what if we turned the temperature up to 120 and some humidity here. Well, like I, one of, one of the notes I wrote down was, was almost like that there's a lot more sort of throwing spaghetti at the wall. But it's not that it is a, like coming back to that resource management and, uh, insisting on everything being an enjoyable experience. Like, like their concern about their body, their health, their wellness, all of that is in order to feed the potential future that they might have. Right. Yeah. So all, all health and wellness practices have to be interesting first. So I had a buddy in high school, I have no idea why he invited me to him getting an ear candle, but like I'm sitting in this, in this dark room with meditative music and him on his side. You know, an ear candle is I do like it's the most like, again, kind of holistic health practice you stick, you stick this like wax funnel into your ear. You light it and it, it pulls all the crap out of your ear and, you know, into, into this, into this, uh, ear candle and like that's where I think I'm thinking back. He got really jazzed about this and like, you know, and I can see sevens in my life who, yeah, again, when the special diet comes up or the, here's the supplements, here's, have you heard of the Enneagram is something I can hear coming out of the mouth of a step. Yeah. And, and it's, it's because it's something new. It's exciting. It's like whatever self growth they might be aiming for. They want it to be an interesting experience in the first place. Yeah. They're the first ones to sign up for acupuncture. Right. Like we're going to put 300 needles into your back. It's going to make you feel amazing. Okay. Yeah, it's in your face. It's a pleasure in your base. I mean, there's, there's something about trying the new things. There's something about branching away from the, the super boring. Like I go to the doctor and I check in and they take my weight and they take my blood pressure and then they, they hit my knee with a little hammer. Like all of that is very boring. That's it. And yeah, why not try something different, branch out a little bit. On another note, we have talked about this recently. Um, I think that a seven like Jesus is really embracing that turn inward in really healthy ways. And I think that's a self preservation move. So the inner life of, of Jesus in terms of the spirituality that Jesus often communicates has a huge self preserving element. When you pray, pray alone, when you fast, don't tell anybody. When you give, don't tell anybody. All of that is about you independent, your insides and, and that can be really healthy. And it's also like there, there is a fair amount of levity in, in that, in that particular, that branch of message, like that, that way of thinking about the inner life, there is a levity to simplifying and like, when you pray, pray alone, this way you don't ever have to perform. You don't ever have to meet anyone else's expectations. Your own inner life can be your own thing. That's exactly right. Charm and levity pitched, it's a hard, it's a hard sell, but spun with a lot of, of joy. And, you know, here's, here's a, here's a place you can jump. Right. Love that. I do see a lot of sevens who are going to use work as an escape. Sure. We have a buddy who like his job is literally an hour and a half away from his house. I think that might be intentional. It's a once to perhaps leave this environment at times and really invest over here. But what that is is, I mean, there's a, there can be a running away to the work, to the workplace. For the sake of self-preservation. Especially if, if your home life is chaos is something that you don't have control over is like, I don't like things being sticky and I'm really not looking forward to that phase of my child growing up. Yeah. Like a, like that point where everything just gets a little sticky for a few years. I, I'm not looking forward to that and going to work is an escape for that. Yep. Right. Because I get to control whether or not things are sticky at work. And the, there's an element of being able to, especially in some type of career that offers you the flexibility to be able to explore your own fancies. There, there's an element of escape that opportunity that is afforded to you when you leave the place where you aren't in control and go to the place where you are in control. Yep. You know, another place you're in control is in the future. Yeah. Especially if you are the planner, the goal setter, the one who naturally has long term vision. That's a place that you can go into your way. Did you call it the mental box? The, the mind palace. Yeah. Yeah. I could see sevens living in that space and with this self preservation instinct feeding it. I think there's also a level of preparedness. Yep. They can come into that. So there are a lot of sevens who are a little bit more austere austere in their stuff. And there are some sevens who have everything that they might need for any type of thing that they might want to do. There are sevens who don't have a lot of food in the refrigerator because they're on to the next event. And there are some sevens who have a packed pantry because they want to make sure that they have everything that they might need in order to accomplish the in order to have the meal that they were planning. Like similar to the sixes, but sevens are also much more likely to abandon that plan once they get there. Right. They just want to make sure that they have everything they need for the plan. Yeah. Cause part part of living well is going to be being comfortable. This is, this is going to be the interesting side to sevens is when we started talking about risk adverse. Sidness seems like sevens would naturally be the most risky of naturally risky of the types. Sure. And gram types, but in self preservation space, it's not going to be that it's going to be balanced in self preservation space. Yeah. And I think that they are they represent this really fun. I will not take risks until I do. There was, there was one that this was a really interesting thing that stood out to me and in some of the interviews that we listened to from Art of Growth is that there was one seven in particular who said I'm an entrepreneur. I started a business and I made a lot of money and I kept that money because it was good and important to have. And, and then I started another business and I lost all of it and he did not say that in a way that was depressed about it. Because the opportunity to start those businesses is the thing that he wanted. The money was not necessarily the resource that he was protecting. It was his opportunity to continue starting businesses that was his resource. The thing that's coming to my mind and I don't have anyone in particular in mind, but there are the sevens who might get outrageous with how they dress. There's a comfort there that isn't very quote unquote risky in my mind. Risk is actually blowing lots of money or the vacation or, you know, or the especially the entrepreneurial investment. Sure. Whereas being self preserving as a seven, what does it look like for me to not risk and yet still fulfill that in adventurous side. It might just have to do with smaller things like here's how I dress. Here's how I eat really maximizing comfort is what I'm trying to drive toward. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's like the risk aversion is more self focused than it is on on the outside world risks like the Adam Sandler famously dresses how he wants all the time. Sure. Like like if you ever see Adam Sandler in public, there's a very good chance he'll be wearing basketball shorts and some type of Jersey. Yeah. And that's that's that's him. That's how he does it period. And that's because he doesn't care. He wants to be comfortable in his clothes more than he wants you to think that he's a good dresser. The risk that that he is avoiding is his own personal comfort. Oh, sure. I see where you're going. Yeah. So he'll show up to black tie events dressed like that. Yeah, which is risky. But the bigger risk for him is that he is he needs to be comfortable in his clothes. Yeah. Being comfortable or the flip side minimizing discomfort. That's a double negative negative. That's a better way to say it. Yeah. But it is the motive is more there. Right. He still has to wear clothes. Yeah. So like there's still an element of doing something he doesn't necessarily want to do, but yeah, minimizing the risk minimizing the discomfort. Another place that doesn't take a lot of risk is the past reframed and the nostalgia that can come out in some sevens can be severe. Yeah. Items that have a lot of sentimentality being reminded of the story from the past and getting a chance to perform it, engage it, yeah, meditate on it. Yeah. Those are places that don't take a lot of risk. Right. Can be quite enjoyable movie out of the present and a particular note on that that that this is behavior. Memories, things that it's pleasant. Yeah. I keep things that remind remind me of things that I didn't like sometimes, you know, like I keep mementos because I like mementos and chachis and and kits like I like all of that stuff. And I have stuff that reminds me of unpleasant times in my life because I'm obsessed with nostalgia like that, but sevens probably don't have things that trigger. Bad memories, what bad memories exactly? Self preservation. If the preservation of the self is about having good experiences at all times, then you don't keep things around that remind you of bad. Yeah, that's exactly it. And even more so you invest in collect, keep around you the items that do right. And I'd also say like that that includes people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that moves to our next one is the tools and assets that you have that that would be you're using people, the social alliances that come out here. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Yeah. A lot of seven, a lot of particularly self preservation sevens are going to be the I got a guy. Yep, person. Yep. Like I have a guy for that because I found him and I kept him because I know that someday I might want that thing again. The guy isn't getting invited on the adventure. The guy is a resource. The guy is a resource. Yeah. Yeah, if he'd make the adventure more interesting, sure, he might come on the adventure, but that's not the point of it. Right. He's the resource. It's going to be a real tricky place for sevens and their families. If sevens are having a hard time with their families, if their family is quote unquote like a source of pain or difficulty, this can be very, very difficult. Yes. Self preservation is probably going to look a whole lot like running away from that atmosphere. Right. It's going to look like longer vacations. It's going to look like working at a distance. Self preservation can be fantastic for all of us. And I think it's going to be the case that maybe sevens have the hardest time reconnecting out of that space. I mean, because this is not necessarily as callous as it sounds, but if relationships are resources, then they're determined by their usefulness. They're determined by their value for the enjoyment of life in self preservation space. Yeah. That's the way they get reduced to that. Yeah. The non dramatic event is exactly what you're saying, like the three year old who is screaming all the time, if the seven is in self preserving space, it may be very difficult. And there is not because of how seven see the world. There is not automatically a relational connection that matters more than anything else. There are a lot of people who would look at the type of person who might abandon their three year old and say that person is a like, I'm not advocating for abandoning three year olds. But like the idea that that person, the person who runs away from that is is evil or selfish. It's not nuanced enough to acknowledge that sometimes relational connection is not natural. Yeah, right. Yep. On the flip side, and I really want to balance this observation because sevens can be fantastic in this space, but it takes a ton of character. And it's that some sevens really have that nostalgic bone and they're valuing of the family. They're valuing of tradition. They're valuing of you know how things are going to be in three years, we are going to have this kind of birthday party and this kind of vacation. And so I'm willing to endure right now and do the hard work that I don't want to do because I have a future vision of where we're going to be. And so this sucks. Let's just all name it, it sucks. And yet in five years, we're in Hawaii and I have my tie and I'm playing with my kids in the ocean wherever your vision is reframing in real time. Yes. And so, and that could be a self preserving move as well. Right. Suppose the last thing I have, it kind of goes alongside your image of, I know a guy, but that is the tools. Like we're kind of landing here with the tools and social alliances, but I can see seven to just are very aware of, you know, the things that they can quickly employ to get them where they want to be. Right. Right. Yeah. Everything is a resource and like thinking about self preservation being the thing that's sort of calling the shots time, money, food, people. All of it is resources to either assist or detract from my enjoyment of life. Spine on. Yeah. Suppose it needs to be said and we probably should say this more frequently that a lot of the examples that kind of are coming from TJ and I are partially off the cuff. You know, we haven't done the way we're not collecting stories. And not all stories, even if you are a seven who has a self preservation instinct that's really dominant and you're paired with another, it may materialize in very different ways. Right. So, I mean, both of us are just trying to expose the overlap of the motive and this instinct and how that may materialize. So hopefully it's hidden. Some of you where you're at, right, or helping you care for your spouse a little bit more because oftentimes, actually, as I've been thinking through this list, the whole self preservation list ends up being these are my friends. My family members, where they are going, not in stress, but when they really need to focus on themselves for a second. And for me is, you know, I'm thinking about this. I'm like, well, that's kind of hard on me when, when people I care about go into that space, but it's giving me a lot more empathy talking through. Oh, this is how the type works and this is what the instinct looks like in that type. And so anyway, been helpful for me on that front. Good last one, unless you got anything else on seven. I don't think so realize I had a second page notes on seven. Can I say one last thing about sevens going into self preservation space? Yeah, the avoidance of emotional connection is all over this myth. People are resources. I suppose this builds on the thing that I was just trying to articulate that it gives me more empathy. Yeah, because I connect in that space more, you know, most severely and I should say it differently. That sort of connection is very important to me. That's what I should say. Right. And a lot of times the sevens in my life, when they're in self preservation space, that's exactly what they avoid. Right. Is some of the things that I want most. Right. And so I don't know what you do with that aside from name it. That's just how it works. Yeah, emotional attention and openness and vulnerability and connection. Man, there's so, so, so much opportunity for that to go badly. I suppose it's a risk. Like emotional vulnerability is a risk. Huge risk. That's why it is. And so the self protective move is not being emotionally going emotionally deep. Let's keep it light moving fluid. Come on. All right. See that's helpful. Right. Eights. Landing with the eights. Eights and self preservation space. What do you see? Well, I have made it a point to bring up that self preservation does not mean loner and social instinct does not mean life of the party. And with self preservation, eights, these are the type that are most likely to live in a cabin in the woods by themselves. Right. This is your, this is the, what did you call them? The people who are preparing for the zombie apocalypse. Yeah, the preppers. Yeah. Preppers. Yeah. I mean, just when you hear people who experience this talk about it, when you read these stories, when you read theories, like the thing that comes out over like every single point that's made can have this tone of control. Right. Like they, this more than other eights who like more than eights when they are in other spaces, when they are in a self preservation when that instinct is rearing its head. These eights are about establishing control over their own life and space. The fear of being overwhelmed is you don't, it's again appearance versus reality. This sort of person may look again very spiky, may really come across as strong and control their space and they feel vulnerable. Yeah. I think you said that well. And so they are doing everything that they can to counteract, prepare for and minimize those vulnerabilities and maintain control over their own space. Yep. That, I mean, we kind of joking on the prepper side, but there is a survivalist posture that can take place. And that doesn't mean that you're, yeah, that your store, you know, you have a, you know, an arsenal in your basement. Right. Ready, ready for the zombie apocalypse. It can like the survivalist posture can look like I have probably the 10 or 15 things I absolutely need to feel strong and oversee my space and not be intruded upon in the ways that I don't want. Right. My in-laws, I believe that my father-in-law is an eight, we all think that he's an eight and I think that he leans more on self-preservation than the other two types for most of the time or the other two instincts the most of the time and they live up in the mountains. They live in a neighborhood in Conifer, but they're also like, it's still isolated. It's half an hour into the mountains from a city. They have neighbors, but their nearest neighbor is like more than 200 feet. There's distance. They got a couple of them out. They got space. Like I said, we've been together for like 15, 16 years and it was just within the last couple of years that he got a generator, a whole house generator, because as many of us know, there's a lot of things happening with the power grid right now. He's making fun of you, Texas. He is finding himself without, like he does not have control over whether or not he has power all of the time. And so he bought a generator and did all of the work to install the generator in such a way that if the power company shuts off power to his house for whatever reason, there's too much snow, there's a wildfire. Whatever, he has the ability to just flip a switch and have power again. The independence, you're just screaming independence there. It's especially in this space, don't want to have wants that are dependent on other people to fulfill their need. And so there can be a very minimalist way of coming to the world. I need my clothes, my computer, I need this food that's in my freezer. I need power in a microwave and I'm good to go. And the lack of wants. It's a different, it's a balancing of lust on one front. We haven't mentioned the passions very much. But there is a balancing here in terms of some of the other expressions of eightness that are very assertive. Right. Here, this is a balancing of the assertiveness of some mates. Yeah, the chestnut uses the word satisfaction for this type. And the way that lust comes through here is about making sure that you have what you want. And a lot of self-preservation eights have either naturally or by self-training, they have very little wants. My father-in-law is a minimalist. He has famously thrown away things that belong to the whole family because he didn't want to store them anymore. He does not have needs that require a lot of attention or other people. He doesn't have the kinds of needs that are vulnerable because he is self-preservation. Yeah, and so if the end of the world happened, he has everything that he needs because he doesn't need anything. Yeah, mortal sin for the nines to throw away something, by the way. Seriously. We haven't mentioned rhythms yet, and I should have, but eights have their rhythms. The no-nonsense side of eights, this is how I do things in self-pres space. I think it can be severe. They establish control, self-possession, and when my rhythms are upset, then I push back a little bit. Or move into re-establish, to regain control. Yes, that would be one of the triple lines. Oh, you're getting a little close because I'm the one who does the crossword puzzle in this house, sir. I would never pick up a crossword book in that house. That's not mine to do. I want to. I'll tell you this story just real quick. My grandmother, just on my mom's side. Just the sweetest, sugariest Texas Austin woman, she wasn't an eight, but she's in my mom's house. Kelly comes down, they had just met, and Kelly gets a copy, she grabs the paper and flips the crossword puzzle. It starts to fill it out, and my grandmother goes, "I'm the one that does the crossword in this house." It's established, "Oh, okay." I also want to make a special note about those rhythms because we're still talking about eights here, who naturally believe that they can order the world according to how they see it. They are extremely self-confident, and when they decide something, it is decided. It's not up for debate, it's not up for influence. The things that they have decided are the things. If the routines, the rhythms, especially self-preservation instinct, when eights are about self-preservation, the rhythms that they have come up with, it doesn't matter if you think they're good rhythms or not. They don't care about your opinion on this because they've already decided this is right for them. This is where the minimalist really plays to the eight. Look, I just have this little space friend. The territorialness that comes out in saying, "I don't have a lot of needs." But in this space, I'm in control and your rules don't apply here, my rules apply here. This is how things go. This wouldn't be said by a self-preservation. It's just how it is. I really hope that he does never listen to this, but he's not going to because he's an eight and he doesn't care. The last time we were at my in-laws house, I went through the effort of taking the extra blanket off of our bed because I sleep hot and they only have flannel sheets and an extra blanket and there's too much on the bed. I went through the effort of taking the whole thing off and remaking the bed without it. Before we went to bed, he remade the bed. Not because he wasn't being defiant, he wasn't trying to be a jerk about it. It's just like, "Oh, this blanket goes on this bed because that is what I decided about how this house works." So he unmade the bed, put the blanket back on and remade the bed, and then I caught fire in the middle of the night. Not really, but that is a great example of he did not think about me for a second when he decided to remake that bed. You want what I want. The blanket goes on. It's not even about what I want. The blanket goes on the bed, end of sentence. We haven't talked about nesting much, but eight and nesting is a real thing. The home is my sanctuary pal. It's my house. And it is going to be maintained the way I want it to be. And so here's how things function and here are the rhythms that we have. Because this is their resource. The space, the physical space that they occupy is one of their resources because it's their body types. And probably see their home as an extension of themselves in that sense. And it all comes back to control and autonomy. I think about the way that thinking about the body and maintaining the body as a resource. Eights are going to be naturally good at making sure their body is capable of the things that they want it to do. This isn't about being the biggest and the strongest. It's about ensuring maintaining their body as a resource is not about competition. It's about ensuring that they have control. It's a famous podcaster who really emphasizes the sexual instinct. But we'll talk about his personal athletic rhythms is really into, I forget what the name of it is, it's grappling is what it is. He really gets into grappling with weight training and grappling. And grappling is all about subduing a person in front of you through essentially wrestling techniques. I see a lot of A2 are attracted to that. It's very physical. It's very engaged. If you practice this, you are body on body with another person and it's very much about not feeling vulnerable. In my mind, I can manipulate a man's arm in a certain way where he's incapacitated. On the flip side here, I do think that Eights who push into self-preservation can still come across as very warm. I think to go back to our temperatures of like pairing types being hot and social types being cool. Self-presed, you know, Eights in that space come across as warm. They're not giving you everything. They're not giving you nothing. They're giving you enough to maintain their space and create social alliances. And to partner with this, I think that Eights in this space are way more emotionally aware. I think that this is a spot that Eights really do see how they come across in the world if they come across, you know, as overly assertive. That in self-preservation space, I get the sense that that's a place where that door opens up for them a little bit. And they can understand how they come across. And part of that actually is a self-preserving technique. I understand that I come across as an asshole sometimes, you get me, I get me, let's just name it, but that's being self-aware. And that's establishing boundaries again and trying to say, okay, that's how I can posture myself for maximum control in the future. Especially when it comes to social alliances. I don't know that I agree with your broader point, but I do agree with the idea that those Aights who are leaning more into self-preservation, when they do come across warm, it is because of that desire for control or to not be controlled as more accurate. Because you can't stiff-arm every conversation and expect to get anywhere. You have to interact with people and sometimes the way to maintain your own autonomy in a relationship is to allow there to be some real space there. Something that might upset the way that you and I are coming to this is that behind the scenes is we're looking at our lists and notes as you're thinking of your father-in-law and I'm thinking about my kid. And we have very, very, very different relationships. And my father-in-law, which I have no qualms saying that I think that he leans more into his self-preservation than he does the other two instincts is a very warm and personable person. He loves talking to people. He will interact with every person that we have to interface with when we go places. He's friendly with all of my staff and he's a very friendly and engaging person. But I think that that is more about him maintaining a sense of his own autonomy and control in any given environment than it is about because if he just walks in and is really standoffish, then other people view him a certain way. Especially because he's like nine feet tall. He has to be personable to be comfortable in those spaces. I think I'm just to reemphasize. I think the idea of social alliance is really important there. So, but, and I also imagine like if he shifts into a different gear, like his relationship with his wife isn't like that, I imagine it's going to be much more intimate and, you know, exposing and not superficial. Sure. That would be my assumption. I'm going to plead the fifth on this one. In terms of independence, we've hit a lot of this, but in terms of eight who are self-preserving in their work, you can see, you know, the eight who would in order to really feel like they had their space. I'm going to isolate at my job doing this thing. Or I suppose in my house, it's not work. It's actually video games. I have my screen and this is the place I go and I'm doing this. It's actually a place of security and control that I've plugged into this station and, you know, I'm not to be disturbed. Right. Right. Yeah. That need for autonomy to be outside of the reach of someone else's control. When self-preservation is the thing that is driving the cart, finding themselves in work spaces where they're answering to a supervisor that is constantly like checking in or micromanaging, like that won't last because there's no space there. There's no sense of them being able to be in charge of themselves. Right. Alongside this, independence, we've mentioned preparation alongside independence, but preparation for self-preserving hates may look like a lot of nose to other people's requests. Yeah. Which is super easy for AIDS. Yeah. So here's what you might do. Nope. Here's what you might do. Nope. We can go here. Nope. Yeah. And it's all the root of the no is I would probably feel vulnerable and no one would do that. When the vulnerability is gone, you may, you know, have a little bit more flexibility, but that goes alongside the risk-adversedness. So it's again kind of doubling down on something here. Risk-adversate self-presate. Again, it's just about what's minimized vulnerability. And I think there's something to mention here that is also, I think, fairly important when talking about these types is that the people in AIDS in a self-preservation space have the biggest, have a really hard time not getting what they want. Sure. They just have little patience for not being able to enact their will in the world. For not living with the efficiency that they expect. Right. Especially if it's in their spheres. Yeah. Something they should control. Yeah. The vulnerability exposed by those kinds of sort of inefficiencies or like the fact that the power company turns off the power when there's high wins. Like that's a huge vulnerability and it is so upsetting that someone who's lived in his house for more than 30 years spent thousands of dollars on a generator that he might use once a year. Right. It's insurance is what it is. It's not being left every metaphor coming from my head is dirty. You don't want to be exposed, pal. Yeah. And it has to do with the deep frustration. Like this is part of where that lust comes in. The deep frustration of having to do something you don't want to do. Yeah. Especially when you are a body and control type. Yeah. Is in theory. I mean that move towards insurance as it were. There's also a stress move there of getting into your five space as well. But again it's on my list. Minimizing discomfort is the target. Yeah. And so for the eight what does that look like and it looks probably something like this. Also minimizing discomfort alongside nines probably and maybe even sevens means having outfits that aren't very attractive. I've seen lots of in self-presed space who you know I don't dress well. I do realize this. However. Now you just fine after years of training. I know some self-preseds who love themselves a mumu is all I'm saying. It's like that kind of thing. It's like I don't know what people think. This is what I dress like in my space and it kind of has that texture. It's like there's the lust. It's like overly cushy. Yeah. You know sort of I'm wearing a sleeping bag. Right. I suppose to circle back to the power generator the last thing on my list is assets and tools and that's also what that is. It's what can I rely on. Yeah. And having everything I need so that I don't have to rely on something someone else. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So TJ and I work with a fantastic gentleman. He's an eight and there's just a couple tools that he is really insistent on. Right. But he's insistent on them. You know. And the primary reason he likes these tools is because when he has to serve 200 people drinks in less than 10 minutes. He needs this thing or else he feels vulnerable. And it's not just vulnerable like there's demands. It's vulnerable in that he's not going to get paid. Right. So and even to take something a little more let's say menial. He also would prefer that we purchase a floor buffer instead of having to rent one every time we need it. Okay. Because if we have to rent it then he has to go pick it up and he has to talk to the people and he has to bring it back by a certain time. And what if it doesn't work? Then he has to return it and all of the like all of the possible contingencies of things that might go wrong and make him and force him to not be in charge of what he's doing anymore. Oh, there you go. Yeah. You're at the whim of somebody else. Just. And you have a rental car. I hate it. Yeah. And like we need that floor buffer once a quarter. Yeah. Maybe. And it costs pennies to rent it. That's not pennies. But it's like the. I love how both you and I are going to say no to the floor buffer in two very different ways. Yours is going to be it's inexpensive and who cares about cleaning anyway. Well, but but also like he would then have to also store it and that would be a space that has minimal like we're really struggling with storage space. That would be my argument. But he wouldn't care that would not be an obstacle to him because he it is it is better for him to have complete control of this. Correct. Then to and he's still in control of where it's get stored. Yep. Yeah. That's where my mind goes is we have enough space. But and then I go, you know what, you're in control of that space. So you you make it happen. I don't care. But I also am probably going to be the one that has to pay for the silly thing because that's how this business. But I'm like seeing that like from the self preservation side of things like if you have to go to the grocery store to get something that you need, then you're not independent. You're not autonomous. If you have to go rent a floor buffer. Once a quarter, then you're not fully autonomous. You're not in control of when you get to use that floor buffer and whether or not it works. Yeah. My child pointed this out and it's just a great line. And I think it applies to twos and fives as well that it's don't want to have wants. Yep. And this. That's the thing. So a huge part of my relationship with my child presently is not trying to connect with them through what I provide is very, very difficult for me. I connect. I need to connect to my eight child through what they do for me. And I'm I'm not an actual sort of person. So, but that looks like them teaching me games that looks like them helping with things that I can easily do in 12 seconds that will take them an hour and yet, you know, elevating them into spaces where that that is agency. That's autonomy. That's not having needs. Yeah. All these things. Anyway. Yeah. Thank you. That's what I got for each gain. My words on AIDS. Nothing I could think of. We went around the circle. We went around the circle and only took us a month. I would. I was not anticipating four hours on one instead. Such is this podcast. This is how it goes. Yeah. Well, we'll see how much time we spend on the other ones. I'm guessing it'll be comparable. I'm trying to jam in recordings for these next two recordings. My ideals are going to get boarded. Happens. All right. Well, friends, just go with the flow, man. Just go with the flow. Two big things before you take off when we have our start here podcast. I imagine if you're listening to our instincts podcast, you pretty much know your type, but you have friends. You have loved ones who are just getting into any gram. Send them there. This is our tool for getting people into any gram and finding their type much better than a test, much better than a book in our mind. We have set it up such that it's really easy to find your type and really connect with the material. The basics of your type. And you can find that at the start here podcast and just look for the any gram circle that we got. The other one is our movie type of podcast is out there and still lots of great stuff there. If you get into film and story and TV shows, there's all sorts of good stuff there and music. We do lots of music stuff. I actually want to do another music podcast. This is on my mind here recently. I love the hell out of my music stuff. Yeah. And when we start to have that conversation, I'll remind you of how badly you felt about the last series we did for like the several weeks following it. That's TJ, do you know me? Yeah. I've really listened to that series and it's amazing. It is really good. Yeah. But you're, I'm just, yeah, just get kind of, I just get kind of critical of myself. Music here is by Brian Clarkson. Music upfront is by the collection. Who has a new album out? You should go check out their new album. It's free on the Spotify. And that's what I got. You got anything else? I got nothing, ma'am. C.J. Wilson. He officially spoke for over two hours. Just monopolizing all the time. I'm looking at my recording. Like, dear listener, you can see the waves of sound and it's, I'm, I clearly just needed to talk today apparently. So I apologize. I'm Jeff Cook. I speak way too much. But who you aren't? Just isn't interesting. TJ did not laugh at that joke or at least held it in for a bit. Did I laugh? 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