Today John Henry and Anthony's conversation explores the topic of gratitude and its different meanings. The hosts discuss the traditional definition of gratitude as being thankful for what one has and appreciating the people and things in one's life. They also delve into the spiritual perspective of gratitude, which focuses on being grateful for the present moment and one's awareness. They explore how gratitude goes beyond being thankful for what you have and extends to being grateful for the present moment and the ability to be aware and mindful. The hosts also touch on the physiological effects of gratitude, such as the release of dopamine and the reduction of stress hormones. Overall, the conversation highlights the transformative power of gratitude and its role in cultivating a more positive and fulfilling life. We also discuss finding enjoyment in the process rather than just focusing on completing tasks. They discuss the balance between mindfulness and practicality, acknowledging that there are times when deadlines and societal expectations need to be met.
The Universal Lens
Episode 75 - The Deeper Meaning of Gratitude
[Music] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Universal Lens. I'm John Amelio, as always, with flying with these two guys. No, Henry and Anthony, Larry and Mo, and I'm currently in the middle, and I'm currently in the middle, so everybody, thank you for coming back. I hope you'll bring that next week. Yeah, man. Yeah, good week, been a great week, and I'm excited after I got your text. That's my favorite. I have to tell you, I wasn't as excited. I feel like I thought I knew what the topic was, but I don't. And you know what? Well, maybe not in the sense that he wants to talk about. You know what? Well, yeah, I think we should expose him to... Yes, it's not that kind of stuff. No, no, no, not that kind of stuff. Easy. We should expose him to a little dispenser. I mentioned that too. Yes, he did. He did. To a little Bob Proctor. Sounds like a doctor, doesn't he? Yeah. Proctor. Yeah, exactly. And expose you to these people that really harp on gratitude. And I think, so the topic is gratitude, and I kind of stole your... There was no thunder to steal. All right. But like you said, you said gratitude. Yes, gratitude. For me was a game changer. But first let's talk about what is... What do most people think? Is this a good question for you? Put you on the spot. So in your eyes, what is gratitude? I think my definition would be what most people think gratitude is being thankful, being thankful to everyone and everything and God for what you have. And I think that's a very solid definition. I think that would be a short definition. I think that's a solid definition that most people are going to get behind. Because there are a lot of people who help you get to where you're at. Also, and I think they should be included in a thing. Absolutely, for duties. So it's a form of appreciation, right? Yeah, I would say. So, and he's absolutely right, right? And that definition, 110%, right? Everything he said makes 100% sense. And when you texted it out, that's what I was thinking. Until you started to give a little bit more definition. So in the world of spirituality, more in new age spirituality. So kind of like more where people talk about like spiritual teachers or people who do shows like this even when they talk about gratitude. It's a very practical form of gratitude. So they're very, like what he said, it's a gratitude for what I have. Gratitude for where I am in life. Gratitude for my life situation, which all makes sense. But in a world of meditation and a world of spirituality, it's really a different meaning. Because that gratitude that you just, anything just defined, which again is 100% right. And we all feel that gratitude and appreciation for things. That gratitude is a mind driven, is a story in my mind kind of gratitude. How my life is good because I have A, B, and C. I'm thankful that I'm not in that situation. I'm thankful that my family is this. I'm thankful that which any normal human being is going to understand. Like, yeah, I get that. But in the world of spirituality and where people who are kind of into meditation, this is where I think he was like, yeah, like someone over his house before, he's like, he gave me some definition. My eyes just rolled in the back of my head. He might as well be just, you know, reading off the alphabet. So it's when you're meditating and when you're in a world of trying to be, you know, connected to your consciousness or become aware or more, that gratitude will take you down, like I said before, the stories in your mind. It's way, if you go back to what the initial word meant, and again, in this world of spirituality, it was more a gratitude for the present moment, a gratitude for where I am now, a gratitude for what is happening now, a gratitude, not a gratitude for what I have or what I am or what I can be, or what is around me as far as friends and family. It's where I am now, gratitude for the present moment, gratitude for my awareness, gratitude for being present as I'm experiencing life. And the trick when people are meditating nowadays or they're trying to become spiritual, they're trying to become awakened, and they kind of use that form of gratitude, like they don't realize, okay, well, what happens if that changes? Are you still going to be, are you still going to have gratitude for life? Well, I think you should be gracious also for the bad parts of your life, because they have assisted you, they have gotten you where you're at. Agreed, no, no, I agree with 200%. But I'm saying, so he's right, but if somebody's trying to become more enlightened or more spiritual, okay, it's great. So now you have gratitude for everything you have in your life, and that's amazing because that's abundance, I have abundance. That's so beautiful. What happens if when life throws you a curveball and it's not there? Are you going to still be able to have gratitude for the present moment? It's not what you have, it's not what you are, it's just I am. It's what you actually are. Are you going to have gratitude for that thing, which is your awareness, your presence, that inner peace, that stillness behind the thinking mind. And we used to talk about this all the time, right? Lately, you know, we've kind of had different topics, but it was always like the stillness that I'm thinking, I'm experiencing this, but behind that, the waters are very calm. That is what the gratitude actually is, gratitude for that stillness, for that presence, for that inner peace that's there that you could tap into in the present moment, which you live in, so I just thought it was, I heard somebody talking about it today and I was like, you know what, that'd be a great topic to kind of bring up. Yeah, it's fantastic. So this is something for me. It's so close to home because until I actually practice gratitude at the level that you're talking about, you really, you're missing out. I'm going to just say you're missing out. Now, as you say, nobody has to or should or anything, but this is one thing where I say, you dabble in gratitude, you will be grateful that somebody recommended it to you. It's a game changer. However, so you know how you just mark the difference between, let's just say, a pure definition of gratitude versus gratitude as it's applied to mindfulness, right? So you kind of made that separation. So I'm going to tell you that that separation, the lines are blurred if you begin where you gave your definition. So begin there because that opens the door for, let's say, the next layer or the next level of gratitude and gratitude got to the point where I can quote the that little video that you found of Steve Harvey, where he says, I don't got to go to work. I get to go to work. Change of mindset. Yeah, correct. I've seen that. Yeah. It's a reframe. Yeah. Gratitude is an instant reframe. And for people that need it, like some people, you know, I guess everybody's different, right? So your genetics, your blood type, your upbringing, you're different. You might process info and you might process info different than I do. And I made the process info different than you do. You have the strain of thought. So gratitude for me was something like spot on hit me because when you go into something tragic, you go into something difficult, you go into something, it's hard to be grateful. It's hard to say, well, I'm thankful that this is happening to me. Yeah, of course. But if you are continuously grateful, there's a practice that I believe the spend that has talked about, I'm sure about practice talked about. I'm sure many of the greats have talked about, which is to make a list every day of 10 things you're grateful for. If you do that list with meaning and with thought and you truly feel the, so I'm just, I'm not thankful for it at the level of, oh, dude, I'm so thankful that I ran into Anthony and, you know, he hooked me up with some good recipes. Okay, yeah, that's great. But I'm really thankful, you know, like when you that feeling, that deep feeling that I can't explain, this is the part of the show where I say, I can't really explain it better with my words. It's a feeling. It's a lot of things that we talk about, unfortunately, and form the category. It's a feeling. And I got to tell you, Anthony, so I was in a... Well, I would say gratitude is more of a feeling than it is the same. Well, actually, yeah, it's more of a verb than it is a... I agree. Okay. ...than it is a noun. But so I was, you know, in dumps, I wasn't in a good state of mind. And I was doing a lot of work, right? It was doing the show. I was with John, I was sharing with him, you know, what I was feeling. And I was slowly understanding that I'm hanging on to some thoughts. Gratitude is something that sets the tone. It's almost like gratitude is a gear. Like, I'm driving a boat that's on, you know, going to go choppy, right? It's like a gear that you put on and your boat's going to go. Yeah, but even the way you're describing it. So again, I agree with 100% of what you're saying. It is a feeling gratitude, right? It's a feeling that gives us, like I said, this feeling of being very thankful for whatever. And even if you write it down, which is a way to do it, which is phenomenal if you do it that way. But even, I think even that... So from what I heard today, and Eckhart told us all about it, he kind of brought it up. I heard... Sorry, no, got it. We would have put the camera down on his pants if he would have spelled it over his pants, just the charm button. Sorry, got it. Even what you're speaking about is a form of gratitude where I still think... We're being thankful for things or anything in our life. A person, a thing, an event, a situation, right? And it gives you this feeling. The point I was trying to make was that's a very new age way to look at it. And there's no right or wrong here. It's to show a comparison to what initially gratitude... So presence of mindfulness was very bare bones back in the day. It was, "I am," right? Even go to the days of Jesus Christ and God. They use the word, "I am" a lot with nothing after it. The answer is, "I am," because I am presence. I am awareness. I am pure consciousness is what we actually are. Then we have this practical body that we live in. And this is where it gets... Yeah, this is where it gets... Yeah, this is where it gets... This is where it gets fufu sometimes when we've talked about this on the shelf. Gratitude back then was... Gratitude, for like I said, having this ability to be present in life right now. They remind what else is happening in our lives. And it's a way to anchor in presence, in that awareness, or mindfulness as you want to call it, right? Or consciousness as you want to call it, whatever words you want to use. When we start being grateful for things that are happening outside... And there's nothing wrong with it. Again, it's not a right or wrong. It's a short comparison how it's evolved maybe. Maybe that's the best way to put it. How the word and the technique of using it has evolved into something else. Not to say it doesn't work. I'm sure it does work. But the key difference is that form of gratitude where we're grateful for... Even if we're writing it down, I'm very grateful for my health. I'm grateful for this. I'm grateful because you have to... If you're writing something down, you're actually going to write. Like, what would you write down? Give me one example. And I go... I'm grateful for having my wife. Okay. You're grateful for having your wife. It's a beautiful thing to be grateful for and I should have appreciation. And you should be grateful for having your wife. That's an appreciation for something that we have practically in our lives. It's not an appreciation for what... Or gratitude for what we actually are. That living in presence. Where people get lost then when they go down this world of spirituality a lot of times, including myself. When we connect with this too much, it starts to realize what we're doing and it starts to play the fiddle of, "Well, I'll give you gratitude for things that I'm going to tell you you should be grateful for." I'm going to tell you things that you should have did. We are grateful for this and we are this and it's all coming from the mind again. And it starts to pull you farther and farther away from one thing that's basically the heart of what we did with the show. The heart of everything that we speak about is that presence. To be grateful for being able to watch and observe. And that's it. Then everything that happens after that is gravy. It's great. Grateful for my mother, my wife, my kids. And I am heartfelt grateful for all those things. Like I appreciate and I love... I'm grateful for my friends and whatever I have in my life. But that's not who I am. And at any time that could all disappear. So I can be grateful, but what I'm truly grateful for is being able to experience life as it is right now. And I think that's what that cartel was talking about when I heard it this morning. And again, it's not to knock down the other version of gratitude at all. It's not... I think that everything you said was 100% spot on and the only diversion I have from what you said was that it's almost like I'm going to simplify it by saying first level gratitude versus deep level gratitude. Which is equating with... I can see that. I'm here and that's what I'm grateful for. This moment right now. I can see that. Okay. And what I'm saying is that first level really transitioned me into the next level. Okay. This is my personal mistake. Yeah, I'm all right. I can tell you that for a fact, obviously as human beings, you know, we... And I can't speak for everybody, but like you don't come in and out of awareness. You know, brightens them with dolls. Yes. So you have these moments, right? So like if I'm very stressed, I'm going here, going there, a lot of things. So right there, your awareness kind of... Because you're attached to the mind right there. Correct. Yeah. You're like... Which is needed at times. I get that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then slowly thereafter, you come back. And that's... You know what? This is off topic, but that's kind of the way I find myself doing. I think it's off topic now. I find myself doing that during the day where I'm concentrating on a work issue. And then I have, okay, great. So once this gets done at 3.30, I have there. So, okay, so then the idea is to finish this and do that. So you see yourself getting attached to doing. Right. So when I get all, you know... Intertwined, I realize it. And then I do something which provokes me to come back and just, okay, hey, that has to be done. We're going to do it. And usually for me, it's some sort of audio, video, something to just... Or I even done nothing. Chill. And just nothing. I mean, it's hard to explain how you... No, it's not hard to explain. I get it exactly. But the argument people are going to make, and this is... I agree with you, is, well, you don't get stuff done if that happens, right? And now you're not doing... Well, the purpose of life isn't just to do. It's not doing. It's being... If there's no being, if there's no awareness in our doing, and that's what we have to be grateful for. For having that... The gratitude is having that awareness while we're doing. Gratitude is for having that awareness while you're going through that checklist. So if you have a lot of things to do... Today, you have a laundry list of things to do. You have to catch yourself going through the list like the machine, and you're like one after another, one after another, one after another, like just happy to complete them. Just happy to complete them, right? Yeah, I know what you mean. So the happy to complete them, which is nice, right? You've got your day done, you've completed your tasks. But if there's no... And like he was saying, I call it being, you call it awareness, whatever word is interchangeable. If there's no awareness behind that doing, then you're just a machine. You're just... You're an autopilot at this point again. But like you said, you catch yourself, which I do too. And sometimes one or two things will fall off the plate. And I say it would be important, because I will purposely hit the brakes because I feel my temperature raising my internal... I can feel it happening, like you just said. And I'm like, okay, time to break away from this, because I don't like where... I don't like the feeling that's starting to boil because... Yeah. No, are you trying to say enjoy the act of doing instead of the act of completing? I think you're close to the... I think you're... Yeah, I can... Roll it out, Rose. No, no, no, no. I think you're circling right around it. So you're there. Yeah, you know, to enjoy the... You know, the... While you're in the middle of it, what you're doing instead of going, I can't wait to complete it and line it out. Yes, so if you enjoy is definitely a word you could use, and that enjoyment comes from not having a determined outcome from what you're doing, just being present in the action of doing it yourself. So if you're washing the car... You definitely didn't pull me in. But if you're washing your car, right? If you're washing your car. And you know you want to finish washing your car because of 415, you've got to be at John's house because we've got to do the podcast, right? Or whatever. Now you're washing your car on the pressure because you've got to get it done. There's no enjoyment there, isn't it? Just no. Yeah. No. Instead, if you wash your car saying, "I'm going to wash your car. Okay, I know I've got to be done." But I'm going to... Well, I'm going to be mindful of the clock. So I'm going to try to be done on time. I'm going to be present here while I'm doing it. I'm not going to be doing it knowing I need to be done the whole time. I'm going to do it with a different mindset. I'm going to do with a mindset. I'm actually going to watch myself be presently actively present as I wash the car. And all of a sudden, A, it takes your temperature down five notches. A hundred notches immediately. Like you go from here to here. Now, there is a side effect to that. It might be five minutes late for where you had to go. But it takes away the anxiety of... Yes. Worrying about being five minutes late. I don't need to be late. A car told is well known for being late. I'm missing deadlines. Because sometimes I get so present, I don't rush to get things done. It must be great to make plans with. No, it's hard. He said it was fantastic. Yeah, he'll say my team hates me. Because they constantly are complaining that I don't get stuff done on time. But I don't care. Basically, yeah. I'm sorry with the control. No, no, no. That you could be five minutes late. Or you might find yourself cutting some corners on the usual processes of your truck washing. To make it, but just so that you're at peace. Because usually I would give it an extra... You with that? I'm not today. And that's okay. You with that? I'll probably do it again tomorrow or give it a coat. Whatever. But from what he just said, can you physically see yourself and feel that difference in temperature, the difference in heartbeat, the heart rate, that difference in... Right? You could physically feel, even though you're not there, just from the description, well, as you employ it, and you feel that feeling, and you feel that difference in temperature. Like, okay, this mode. Super hot. This mode. Nice and warm. And you haven't done anything different or special, other than making an adjustment in terms of how you think about it, or how you're going to go about it. Right? So, same. So, like, today I had a huge list to do. Huge. But in fact, after here, I got to go do something else. I got to do two something else. It's okay. So, I said in the past that mindfulness actually gives you capacity. Well, let me ask you this. Yes, it does. I'm going to play double life now, okay? Does mindfulness sometimes, or that the ability to enjoy what you're doing and take yourself out of those time frames, where you might have to be somewhere or something like that? That's one point, at some point, is that detrimental. Like, you just said, Ed Clark told, you know, his team hates him because he never makes anything on time, or you lose half your team, because they're like, "I can't work on this." Or you have two more things to do after this, but one of the places closes at eight o'clock. So, you have to figure out how you're going to-- So, what's the rush? Just said, well, the place closes at eight, and there's something that you need to get done today, because you don't have time to do it tomorrow. At what point? I'm playing double advocate. Yeah, no. So, what actually are you like, okay, I mean, I do want to enjoy what I'm doing, but this task, I got to move along, because they're all constraints in this world we live in, that we kind of got to hear to. You can't change the fact home people is going to close at eight, or whatever it is, you know? On a practical level. On a practical level, you're absolutely right that, yes, there are things that need to that unfortunately are required to get done in certain times. Because, you know, everybody's not-- Everybody's on that same page, or-- But you could-- Well, you know, maybe we'll get there, when we get that kind of thing. If everybody's on the same page, it's cool. Yeah, if they're not. If they're not. I mean, you are the sole folk. Are you to speak, you know? Yes, you're absolutely right. And there are, there might be consequences to it, if you decide not to, you know, rush through something to get it done. But you could still be mindful, and practically-- You could still be mindful, and be practical in the way you're trying to get something done at a certain time. But you're doing-- So I could still do something with a little bit of hurry, and be present watching it. I were. We're both blowing up. Something going on. Honestly, in the world. No, if your phone goes off now, we better start running. We're in a basement. We'll be fine. That's true. We are best off. You know, so-- But yeah, I mean, you can do something with a little bit of hurry or exit. I don't know. I'm just thinking about it. You know. But yeah, no, there are. But-- and there are, but it's-- Again, it's-- I guess life wasn't meant to be-- Life wasn't intended to be-- That's our society, I get that. And there are rules that we-- That you could choose-- That you could choose through it here too, or choose to not. Now, Eckhart, they don't want to hate him, but they'll always tell him, "Come on, Eckhart. We need this done. We need it done. You know, we have to play this in two weeks. We need to know what the format's going to be." And he's a little-- He's always a little atia deadlines, because he's a very-- He's very present and doesn't overly rush himself. He doesn't have to-- He's also for the luxury of not having-- He can do that, right, if he wants to. They're all consequences. But they're all kind-- And again-- Some people may get stuff-- But people who are present usually who want to be, who want to live a certain life that way, usually one way or another eventually start evolving out of certain circumstances, and into others where they can live that sort of life that they want to. Yeah, I would assume you'd have to do that. You know, they tend to want to. Now, there's going to be the situation where a family member has to take a certain job, because he's got to feed his family, even though it's not the job he wants. And that person can be uber-present in what they're doing. It doesn't mean that they're always like in Lala. It's not like you're in Lala Land. It's, hey, I notice what my mind is-- Put me in 7th, 8th, and 9th year, where I don't need to be in 17th and 9th year right now. I'm going to reserve 7th, 8th, and 9th year for when it's absolutely necessary. And my mind's telling me it's necessary, but intelligently, I know it's not, you know? When you're on the Titanic and it's going down. Yeah, that's in-- That's in-- that's instinct now at this point, right? That's your instinct, that's kicking it. Yep. Yeah, so not everything is a fire that has to be put out. Yes. Right. That's a great way to put it. Yeah. But I think a little bit of hybridization is you can sort of manage your level of chillness, let's say. Because, yeah, it is true. Home Depot does close at a certain time. I got to get there. So I think what I'll do is I'll go there first, and I'll just reverse my task. Sure. You know what, tomorrow, I'll do Home Depot tomorrow. And you adjust, you know, build onto your angst, build onto your, you know, because like I said, everybody takes things differently. You're right, but my point was that awareness can lead you into sometimes behind the ball, so to speak. To take a nonchalant approach. Yes, yes, which now? Which is sometimes that could be good for your mental health, I would say. But maybe not good for your, you know, I don't want to put it. Maybe your social standing, or you start to lose friends, or you lose your job, because you're like, it may happen. That's kind of like this. I got to be somewhere or five. But that's my job. And you're like, well, I'm enjoying what I'm doing right now. And you're like, yeah, but that in society, that's all enjoying what you're doing right now. It's that living a society that all operates like that. And they're like, I know Henry will be here within 10 minutes. He's just, he's just chilling. So, but most people aren't like, well, I'm going to just say this to you. With your frame, your frame is either you are, or you're not, because society is not going to plug and put up with this shit. And I would say that you, I don't accept that frame. I don't accept whether you are, you aren't. I accept that I'm a mindful person in a society that is rush, rush, rush, do, do, do, deadline, deadline. A hundred percent. I'm a mindful person. You're a real estate agent. Nobody knows that more than you. You have schedules. You have, you're meeting people at certain times. You have closings at certain. There's no like, maybe 20 minutes late. I know you, there's no way you're doing that. Oh, you can. But if you're on time, you're late. I understand what you have a sense of mindfulness, though, that you can still ease yourself into still getting there on time, but not all so stressing yourself out to the point where I think that's, I think that's the point, you know, that there's no need to stress yourself out. Enjoy what you're doing. Don't stress yourself out, but be mindful at a clock. It's really all comes down to, you know, exactly. Because without us talking about this particular skill at this particular moment, we tend to, like, unless you're exposed to this, we tend to wear ourselves out as if we were a tire and we're bald. By the end of the day, we're doing donuts and we'd be bald as hell. And we end the day between our physical demands, our mental demands, and our emotional demands, and thinking about what's going to happen tomorrow, which is the same as today, you just wear yourself out. Oh, well, for certain. So this, that's why most high stressful jobs or professions, they are short-lived, with the special operations community meeting in the military. Those guys, they train their entire lives to probably a 10-year career. Mentally, in a lot of ways, they use some heavy-duty surgeons, I guess, and you just can't, you know, that too. Yeah, you've seen trauma day after day after day, then you're right, though. Oh, that's a presence in things that this could be a huge asset. Sure, yeah. Yeah, or a huge, huge asset. Let me talk about that in prior episodes. Dealing with those traumas and stuff like that, you know, it's a huge asset. So I'm going to paint the picture, right? I'm just going to say this as a presupposition, not exactly as the truth, although you can say that's the truth. Most people wake up in the morning, and first thing, first thing is, alarm, right? Jesus Christ. Like I said, I'm presupposing, but I'm pretty sure I'm close to the truth. You're dreading waking up. Well, right there, I'm going to make an observation. It's true. Knee-jerk reaction when you first met. You said the key word there was reaction, right? Knee-jerk reaction, but if you think about it, you woke up. It should be grateful. God bless you. Like, that's fantastic. It's like what Steve Bobby says, right? There's a big time, it was a big time Christian. It's funny how all this stuff, which I know you guys have talked about before, but all that stuff is all the same. And I'll keep going to go to that job. Oh my God. It's almost like going to school to take that test. Oh, your belly starts to hurt. Enter the new frame. I am thankful that I got another day. I'm thankful that I'm actually employed. I'm thankful that I'm going to go to a job. I'm going to do that well, because I'm going to provide for my family. I'm thankful I have the opportunity. And so as you go along, you tweak your mind, you tweak the frame, and that ends up becoming a whole new you, where you can start to really soak in the beauty of life, where there is no beauty with this fucking alarm to a fucking job. I hate that. You know what that motherfucker who's a boss, what a piece of shit in the people. So that gratitude practice really opens a door for you to really see a new, with new lens. How beautiful our experience here is. Yeah, not every day is roses. You know, there's curveballs to be thrown at you, and they will be thrown at you. But even those curveballs are dealt with in a much better way than not. Yeah, you know. Actually, it's really this is where the universal lens, the actual phrase, like comes into play where you're putting a lens on how you view things, on how you see things. And you can see things through one lens, which is the old lens, which is I'm again, I have no data, but like more than half of the people that go through life think, well, that's that's life. That's it. That's how you and what we're proposing and which has been proposed for forever is, no, you could put a new, you could put a different lens on it. Yeah, like some people would say, yeah, yeah. You're just saying, look at things a different way. Right. Different angle through a different lens. But what happens to some people, especially again, actually society locks us in this mind frame where this is life. And I'm going to go one step deeper, the, you know, everybody's life is subjective life. The experience of life is subjective. We have said the last week, yeah. So everybody's truths, everybody's realities are subjective. They are. So like, you know, if you had usually your, your day is framed, I'm sorry, but your, your reality is framed by your day. If you, if you get a lot of curveballs in there, you get kicked in the ass. If you're done by the time you get home. How was your day? Oh, just a little. Well, that's, that is where what we said in the beginning of the show, why that gratitude for presence is what gratitude actually is, is so important because it allows you the ability to change your lens, like you said, to reframe something, to look at it different. And it doesn't mean, by the way, that it makes you feel better. Like, I never want to, I'm not one of those guys who's going to paint the rosy picture, just a paint the rosy picture, like, Oh, this is going to, no, no, you could reframe. You could be gracious for having the ability to be aware that you don't like something. And that not liking feeling doesn't change. So you have that asshole boss. You have that job that is just not enjoyable to go to. You don't enjoy maybe going to that job. Like there's no physical, like you don't wake up and go, I'm going to reframe it. I love going to this job now. No, it's not how it works. I'm sorry. But you're not going to hate going to that job anymore, because you're going to be looking at it through a different way. So it's not like all of a sudden, well, I can make something that I hate. I can make it enjoyable all of a sudden. No, I mean, listen, if you don't enjoy something, you don't enjoy something. That's just, that's just the nature of the beast. But you don't have to, you're not going to hate it. Because if you have that, if you have that, so before, quote unquote, that gratitude for the present moment, if you have that gratitude, that awareness in that presence is what anchors you back and makes you realize that I could take the approach of, I hate, I hate, I hate, or I could take the approach of, this is an ideal. This is not what I would ideally love to be doing. But I do it, I do it wholeheartedly because it is needed and required for me to do it right now. And all of a sudden you're doing it differently. Not again, not that it makes you feel better, maybe, but it doesn't make you feel worse. It doesn't amplify the shitty feeling. It kind of wipes the shitty feeling out. I might leave you with a neutral feeling towards it. Like, okay, I'm not crazy about this, but, okay, all right, I'm not crazy about it. I don't love it, I love this job, but I'm doing it, I'm aware that I don't like it, and I'm not going to fall into the trap of, because that just takes you from here. And that just buries you under the ground. And now you have all this resentment, negativity, and negative emotions, and feelings, and negative charge, and you just carry that and that eats at you. Well, I believe that this practice carries a physiological change as well. It's not just mental or spiritual or emotional. It's physiological. And what I mean by that is to go back to the car washing examples. So there you are now that you remember that you've got to be at John's house by a certain time. You don't want to be late. Oh my gosh. So now that wash my car, and you're like stress washing, like, and now you're now, it could be if your mind is like, you could don't forget the other thing to all. Yeah, the other thing is the compound. Okay, you become a squirrel. You become like a squirrel, like a dog on a squirrel, squirrel, squirrel. And you're not paying attention to one thing, one thing you're doing. What I'm getting at with the physiological is so your body, the human's body, under stress, or under some sort of, there's a kem lab. Under some sort of pressure, you release cortisol. And you release other juices or hormones that would kind of help you with that, because anxiety, trouble, fight or flight, right? So all these, yeah, when you're stressed in your angst and you and you feel hurried and you buy into that rush, your body releases a pharmacy of chemicals. And your body releases that and it could be just triggering more, right? So more and more because now you're hyper aware. Oh my God, I got a lot of time for this. You get into that mode. But when you get into the gratitude mode, it's a release of what was the good one? And not the endo dopamine. Dopamine, the fact. Yeah. So the dopamine counterbalances, the cortisol. And when you have this dopamine rise, your body is like, thank you. There's a physical thank you from your body, which you reduce your heart rate. There's a, there's a calmer waters and there's almost like everything inside of you says, oh, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for taking us here. As opposed to. It's like, oh, it's like having your fist closed and then you're releasing it and releasing it. And so when that and the physical are aligning and you're like, oh man, you, you just feel in a, you feel special. You feel like this is nice. This is very good. And the trap here is the happiness trap. Dr. Russ, yeah, because this is what we said, right? The mind is like it's, this is why even as we talk, we just be on cover more and more rabbit holes, even in our own discussion. It doesn't matter how good you are at this. If you at any time attached to the mind, it will take you down a path eventually to be like, oh, this is how I'm always going to feel. Oh, wait, wait a second. I like this presence. I feel good with it. You know what happens when you don't feel good with it. What happens? What happens when you can't click back, right? Because we can't shut this off. What happens when you are, are you okay being present with shit? That's what it's really about. I mean, that's what it's really bad. That's when you get stuck. And now the mind comes in and goes, story, this sucks, this sucks. And now you believe it, why is this happening? Why can't I do it anymore? Why I had it and I don't have it now because you're chasing something. Yes, that should not be chased. It's there. It's always there. Your mind is projecting that it's actually there. Oh, no, we've lost it. We got to go get this presence back. We got to get it back. So it makes us feel happy and calm again. Oh, no, no, that's NCS the trap. And by the way, human being, I fall into that trap. During the week, I catch myself falling into the trap because I have a thinking mind. If I didn't have a mind, I don't know, I'd be a light floating in the sky. I guess I don't know what the light be. I'll find someday I'll let you know if I come back, right? I don't know. You know, it's funny, I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry because what ends up happening is almost all our episodes is we have this pizza, which is mindfulness, but pizza has cheese, pizza has flour, pizza has egg, water, whatever the sauce and that sauce has tomatoes and salt and basil. And there are days that we'll talk about just the salt. Oh, we'll always talk about the pizza. Yeah, but we're just focusing on the salt today. But we come back to the pizza and the other different elements of it. We might sprinkle around the pepperoni, but we always come back. And that's kind of what goes on here. It's almost like all these ingredients are intertwined and they all lock in somehow to create this beautiful thing. And today's gratitude. Today's ingredient is gratitude, but gratitude in its purest initial, what it really means in the world of awareness. It really means in the world of mindfulness, what it really means, if somebody's on a path to acceptance and they really want to understand how the mind works and they want to understand how they could be watchers instead of being the puppet, be the puppeteer, be the one behind the scenes who sees how it's working. And gratitude today is today's lesson of it's not about being, again, like we said, it's great to be grateful for everything you have. And I don't think anybody should go around not being grateful for what they have in life. If you're in a great situation, sure, you should be grateful. Whether they say don't look at gift horse in the mouth, right? Like don't tell life, finally give a fuck what you gave me because the universe has a way of being like, huh? Well, I'm sorry, what'd you say? You know, so yes, you could be grateful for that, but don't attach to that. Because that's not actually what gratitude is. It's the gratitude for that presence. I want to give a summary and I just want you to tell me, yes, correct? Or not really. Okay, basically, I want to simplify it. I'm trying to use the word dumb it down. I wasn't, that's what goes out of my mouth, but I want to simplify it. And the simplification is this, the level of gratitude that you're talking about is when you reach that deep, I can't use a word, holistic level of gratitude where that calm, present, aware feeling of gratitude almost as if I had to feel it, I could put my hand inside Eckhart Tolle's chest and feel it. But what I want to couple is I don't want to take away or second place that definition of gratitude because I believe it is with that definition of gratitude that can help you arrive to your definition of gratitude. I don't think you're wrong. I mean, I don't know if there's really no right or wrong, but what you said is, yeah, absolutely. That's sure. I mean, I think if you put this right, if you don't have the Webster dictionary version that Anthony gave of gratitude, right, would gratitude probably mean to knows a very well said definition. If you don't have that, if you don't have that gratitude, I think it's very hard for you to get gratitude for presence because you're not even grateful for the things you have in life for, for the opportunities you've been given or the friends that you have or the situation you're in. If you can't be grateful for that, well, how are you going to know what true gratitude means for gratitude for awareness and presence and for the ability to be able to see and watch and not just be grateful for stories and you have to. If you don't have that gratitude that he was talking about, which is gratitude we all have, yes, agreed. Not that you can't get both at once because life sometimes can just thrust you into, you know, sort of a situation where it becomes the only door available if you're paying attention. Like there'll be people who I don't see a way out and there's a door right there. All the other doors have been deleted for a reason right now because you need to find that door. You need to open that door. You just need to realize this here. But yeah, in short, I agree. I agree. Yeah, I think you need that. You need to understand that before you could really appreciate what like the initial kind of spiritual meaning of gratitude actually is, you know, it's not for I'm grateful for having me. And it will hit you. I think it will hit you. It does hit you. It does hit you. But even with that hit that you're going to feel when you first discover it, that feeling will go away too. Go ahead. Your body will act because the body is human and will acclimate to that. And as Anthony said this to me before, he's like, is it about having no emotion? Like, and I'm like, no, it's just not attaching to any emotion. And it's experiencing them all when they come up. But I don't need to be happy because if I need to be happy, I'm going to be chasing happy. I don't want to be sad. I'm going to be running away from sad. You know what happens when you chase something? You don't catch it. You know what happens when you run away from something? It's always on your fucking coattails. It's just an eternity of life. What an experience. Yes, I mean, you navigate through life as needed. I mean, I'm not saying if you're in a shitty situation, you don't try to solve that. I was just saying, I was defining you saying, don't search for it. Don't chase after it. Yeah, no. But it comes when it comes. Yeah, it's ebbs and flows, right? Today's a good day for whatever. Let's say you're dealing with something. Today's a day with that thing. Today's the day with that thing that's bothering you, right? What's him, Dr. Jordan Peterson actually was talking about this once. He's like, he's talking about something else, but he said something that kind of rang true when he said in the middle of it, you're like, if you're having a good day, you'd be a fool not to enjoy that good day. It goes, but don't attach that good day because tomorrow when you're having a shitty day, he goes, basically, he's like, then what, right? I was like, wow, I was like, you know, this guy says a lot of things. That kind of, I can drive with some things, maybe not, but... You're happy when it comes, but don't be just totally distraught when it doesn't. Look, I use myself as an example. There are days, my tinnitus does not even phase me. Then there are days where it's there 24/7. I hear it. Maybe I don't hear it for 20 minutes. I don't hear it for two hours. Most of the thing comes back, I hear it. If I'm only going to say, I'm only going to enjoy life in the days I don't hear it, you know what's going to happen? The days I don't hear it are going to become less and less and days I do, they're going to become more and more because I'm chasing something and I'm running away from something else, right? I know we kind of morphed here into something. Yeah, it's all right, it's the end of the show. It's still meatloaf. Yeah, mashed potato. You're going to hear your tinnitus, but do you listen to your tinnitus? That's true, that's true. And there are days where, yeah, so the point I was trying to make is, if you attach only to saying, I'm only going to be, actually, no, I can't. If you attach only to, if you don't have that gratitude for presence, you're going to be chasing, you'll attach those because you're going to be grateful for all these things you have in life. But if you're grateful for all the things which you should be, and I'm not sure to be, but it makes sense to be grateful. But if you're always, okay, what if you have nothing to be grateful for right now in a practical world? Should be job, financially, maybe you're having marital problems, you just fucking can't stand you, your friends are a bunch of assholes. Okay, well, so what are you grateful for now? I can't help that first. See, but what I would, yes, we can, but I'm trying to give, like, like that practical person who's attached to that one, like, gratitude, or that they think that's what gratitude is. Now what are you grateful for? So my ears are ringing like crazy today, let's just say. What am I grateful for now? Right. Am I grateful that they're ringing? I don't have to like it, but I'm grateful that I'm realizing that I don't like it. That my mind is saying, I don't like this. If I realize it, I don't attach to it, and I go about my business during the day, and I enjoy my day. And all of a sudden, it's like having, yeah, the little kid was going like this to you once in a while, without losing your shit on that kid, because or else you become, you know, or else where's that enjoyment that he said before? It's enjoying what you're doing, right? You lose, you have no shot at joy because you're chasing happiness. And the inputs around you control you. And you know, many times I've caught myself rushing through a job or something I was doing, and then slowing down, realizing, what else do you have to do for the day? Why don't you take your time, do it right, slow it down, but it takes a second of realization to get there, that mindfulness of, you know, I got the time, slow it down, relax. What if you don't have the time? But that particular day I did, you know what I mean? I looked at him, I got a bunch of things. That particular day I did, and it was good that I slowed down, and I did a good, much better job. Watch it, watch it. I bet you I could guess what he's talking about. Oh, I know, he knows, because I talked about it forever. Anything depends. Oh, I'm painting the door, you're like, oh shit, I was slow. I keep painting. Okay, so to me, it was a mind- You think it's back your door? John was like, John has been painting his whole life, he's like 30 seconds, I paint these doors. It was an entire afternoon for me, you know. Of course, dude. But I took my time, and I didn't rush it. And I was less anxious, because I was able to slow it down and just be, I had nowhere to go. But isn't it funny how you really? And everybody got it. Hold on, but you realized how your mind was telling you. 100%. And by the way, I'm worried, like him, as far as that part of my mind, is always like, start to ask, finish this. Yeah, start to ask, finish this. I start something, my mind's like, okay, we got to get it done. Yes, yes. But there's that other level now that goes, why? Why do you get a lot through it? Slow it down a little bit. Yeah, like I said, in my book, there was a couple of times where I wanted to get it out. I wanted to get it out. And I still think to this day, I should have held off a little bit longer, maybe, but whatever I chose to do, but I mean, I could have held off, but my mind, I noticed how my mind wanted to keep it done, get it done, get it done, get it done. And I would take breaks and I would stop writing for a week. I'd be like, because I'm going to, I'm going to lose the, I'm going to burn. I'm not going to enjoy it. There will be no joy in it, because if I listen to my mind, it's always going to want to feel a certain way about getting it done. You're writing for a deadline. You're not writing for the comp. Exactly. So, I mean, that's an interesting example. But yeah, so if you don't have gratitude for what true gratitude is. Well, I think John's made the, what he's trying to say is, there's no problem with the definition of gratitude. No, we, I think, yeah, no, there's no problem with it. What he's just trying to show you is that there's another level of gratitude. 100%. That's really old as he pulled back the card and went, if you thought that was the only level of gratitude, you're wrong. That's a whole nother level. Take a look at this. And that's what this episode I think was about was John defining that other level that most people don't get a chance to say. Thank you, Paul. Listen, what's the, what's the, the marshal? The second. I don't say much, but when I do say something, it's important. But it's true with, I mean, I hope I, I hope I summed it up towards the end of the show of exactly what John was doing, pulling away the curtain of another level of graciousness. I mean, I think that's. Yeah, of, of the actual, of the actual, it's a, it's a 100% what I was saying. The actual point of what gratitude is. And that will, that will give you, that will help you to understand what presence and, you know, with that mindfulness. It's a different portal. And with that one, you can pull back that curtain is what John I think is saying. Yeah, and trust me, it changed me. It changed. It takes time though. You know, and it's not, it's, it's like, um, it's like going to the gym. You're not going to see results in, you know, a month, maybe two months. But you, you'd be surprised at these results. But you know what I mean? But they're all with mindfulness. But yeah, I think I know that I'm only trying to say. People quit or people stop working out because it's hard. And, and you don't see results right away. And the mind, you know what the mind's going to tell you? Same way the mind will tell you. Quit why are we doing this for? Yeah, of course. You don't look any better. I can't do this. The hell for? I have to listen. I, you know, it's just too much. The mind will tell you, John, do you really want to? Yeah, but you know, you really want to be mindful. Right now, that changes a lot. Why don't you just complain to somebody about something that just, this is bothering you. Why don't you just complain about it? It'll make you feel good. Let's just come on. Tell me how much this sucks right now. That's what your mind wants to do. But you watch it. And again, you'll go to the gym for five years, let's just say. And you'll still have that thought that's going to pop in once in a while. I don't want to do this right now. I don't want to. Your mind wants to, your mind. That's where you go to front now. Yeah, your mind when you don't want to go is like, we're going. I'm picking you up. Let's go, you know. That's where you go with your body. That works. Yeah, and the same thing with this, right? Yeah. You have a, you have a group of people you will, you talk to. And if they're having a day where their mind is kind of hooked onto them, because it's, it's throwing the rope and you grab that rope. Just, it's an instinct. Yeah, but you have somebody around you who, who understands this world. And just says, whoa, look up, look up. And you're like, yeah, I did it four months ago. He told me, you know, like, oh, you know, basically the older ones were open. I realized that my son and a bitch, I did it, right? Look, I did it. I took this 60 episodes in and I hit a wall where I had to do it in January. You know, so we were 40 episodes in with me. Yeah, so it happened. Shit happens. So that was today's spiel. Yeah, I thought it was good. You know, I was, I didn't say much in this one because I was doing a lot of listening to be perfectly honest with you. And I'm not, not knowing much about that deep a topic. So I was just doing some, some listening. But, so in the beginning of the show, always have to know and you were like, what the fuck? Yeah, no, I feel like I understand what you mean now. Yeah. Well, yeah, I'm going to just recommend some of the usual dispenser stuff or whatever. You know, what I'll show you videos or whatever. Dude, just, that's what I did. Just, it's, it's incredible how a good dispends a meditation, especially with gratitude in it. I guess I'll do it in a minute. I have to, I have to start investing more time in looking into that because I don't, I can't bring myself to watch a lecture or something like that. You don't listen to that car at all when you're working on it. That was me to that. Yeah, no, I, I blew a flat bench. I can't find the illusion of me that problem. As you're doing this, you must understand what gratitude that actually is. Much is like that guy, everything he says goes, yes, as much as that. Yes, that's it. So many times, I'll say it's hard to put into words. He puts in his fingers out and I'm like, those combination of words, that's it. You got to send me a couple of videos, the ones that you really, you liked, you know. You can't do it when you're working out. But Eckhart told delivery, I will not be watching this. It's, it's, it's, it's like, you know, watching commentary, right? Yeah. So there are others that deliver better. That's, yeah. But his is, his message is a different message. You're right. But all the same world. But it's that I use the word, I use the word better and it's not different. Different. Yeah, which one do you like? Right. And I've always said that, which, which resonates with you. And this is where I got cute with everything because I'm like, well, are subconscious and I went into the subconscious issues and meaning you can learn from yourself conscious and you can start reprogram yourself and a whole bunch of other things. I want to enter in this episode. But just listening to, to spend or whatever, any of the other ones, you will get it. And then once you get into a meditation with it, especially you sit a long one, if you can, maybe early Sunday morning, nobody's up there. You get into a nice long one. You come out of that 20, 30 minute meditation. Tell me how you come out. I'm like, you're like, you got to send me one. You're about to wear an orange, uh, what is orange? Think that the Zen Buddhist. Oh, you're about to put on ours. They're very there. Thanks, man. Yeah, yeah. I'm more of your fan. I'm already there. But you got to be famous. I'm going to be a couple. Yeah, I like to try them out. You know what? I had, I told you that I've sent them to you. I told you, I bought to Joe. I bought, I bought them once. Really? I have five of them. I'll say I'll email them to both of you. Oh, yeah. I'll go with you. I have five of them, man. That's cool. I did them for a while and then again, I, I just stopped. Right. I, I, I, I also get very basic when I do this. Like, I'm, I, so I'm more of an ET guy, a car guy, because it's, it just strips everything down to just, I am. I, I, for me, I get that. Like, I get it. What's his name? Yeah. So he talks about that a lot. If you're listening, he talks about that a lot. Yeah. I see such parallel universes. It's not, I am anything. It's, that's why I said at the beginning of the show. Oh, no. Oh, we're talking about it. So you said at the beginning of the show? Yeah. This is, I am. I didn't say anything then. But the parallelists are just. They are with Christianity. And they'll tell you amazing. They'll tell you those, to everything that's at the window, it goes listen to the message of what Jesus was saying, right? Just the, it's I am done. Now I am, I, he uses that term so many times. I am consciousness, the light of consciousness, light of the world. You know, the things that they say, you know, because Anthony made this point just now that the parallels are huge. And we, we had the episode on it. Yep. I'm a legend once, but, and the difference between meditation and prayer, we kind of got into it. And who was, was it, was it Eckhart told that said, like, you can't be sure of anything in this world? There isn't one thing you can't be sure. You can, there's only one thing you could be sure of. The IRS, the I am. Oh, yeah. That you are. Now you can get around that. But everything else is, you can't be. No, because everything else is, everything else is a story, a creation of the human mind. Could be sure of one thing. One thing that you are, that you are what? No, no, no, no. You are connected to something somehow, somewhere. And if you have, if you're, if you are. To think that you weren't. Yeah. And if you're, and if you have the gratitude, you'll realize if you employ proper gratitude, you'll realize or authentic gratitude. I'll say maybe you'll realize what that I am actually is. Okay. All right, I'll drop it if you drop it if you drop it. Cheers. We're all dropping. All right. I think we're good. Yeah. That was beautiful. I'm going to go over Anthony. He's a meatloaf and med potatoes tonight. Not all of them. That's probably leftovers. All right. I think we're good. Keeps. All right, guys. We'll see you guys next week. Oh, by the way, it's episode 75. It's, it's, I don't know what our anniversary it is for us. The gold silver platinum one. Yes. Did you get me a gift? The three quarters award. Yes, I did. I got your gift right here. Of my presence. All right, guys. Well, thank you for joining in. And we'll see you guys next week. Peace. The insights and discussions that we speak about on our show are our own opinions and based on our life experiences. If you or someone in your family or someone you know is suffering and in need of help, please get them that help through medical attention or seeking proper therapy. Again, what we speak about are based on our experiences and not intended to be taken as a form of therapy. Thank you.