Alright friends,
We are throwing out some big ideas about a big topic. This is our continued deep dive into the Enneagram Instincts.
We are setting a foundation, pitching a runway to take off from, and we hope you jump in!
Around the Circle: An Enneagram Podcast
Instincts | "Pairing-Sexual" | Part I
I'm Jeff Cook, and I'm TJ Wilson, and this is Around The Circle. ♪ I'm walking slowly, I'm taking my time ♪ ♪ All I could talk in is starting to rhyme ♪ ♪ Letting go along, they're letting go and strive ♪ ♪ I just can't get enough of this beautiful ride ♪ ♪ The Enneagram is a map of the human personality ♪ ♪ It's still for navigating relationships ♪ ♪ Great language for what motivates us ♪ ♪ And helps us look at the way we look at everything else ♪ ♪ Most importantly, the Enneagram's a mirror ♪ ♪ 'Cause sometimes you need help seeing yourself ♪ ♪ My name's Jeff Cook, I'm a philosopher in Greeley, Colorado ♪ ♪ And with me is TJ Wilson ♪ ♪ Businessman, lover of theology and Enneagram ninja ♪ ♪ Hello ♪ ♪ My man ♪ ♪ Hey, hey, hey ♪ ♪ You are missing the opening ceremony to the Olympics ♪ Is missing the right word? Not an Olympic sky. I just don't care. Is that a right way to say that? I don't care. I think that is the right way to say it. Okay, good. I'm getting the updates from Kelly on what I need to YouTube later. Oh, sure. And I saved four hours. There you go. We've been doing a deep dive into the instincts. These are the three social energies that all of us possess. If you want an intro to this, look at the first five episodes. Apparently we had to spend a lot of time introducing the topic. It's a big deal. But now we are shifting into second gear. Yeah. And lo and behold, that's been one of our metaphors, so I'll come back to it. But we are talking about what is often called the sexual instinct. Some people will call it the one on one instinct, bonding instinct. TJ and I prefer the pairing instinct. But this is the hot instinct. This is the, as he said, the risk taking instinct. And all of us have this instinct. All of us can connect to other people. One on one in a bonding way where they are our focus. And when our Enneagram type overlaps with this one on one interaction, a lot of times there's really great things worth talking about. In fact, we just did a recording with Beth McCord. And she had identified herself and her family according to not only their type, but their dominant instinct. And a lot of people who really get into Enneagram, elevate the instincts to almost that level of saying this is their type or their subtype is the language. TJ and I don't do this. We think that the instincts are more like gears in a car. That we get comfortable with and that we prefer. And especially given the territory and terrain that we need to navigate in our life. We kind of settle into some of those gears as our favorites. But however you come to this, when talking about the sexual bonding one on one, pairing instinct, it's incredibly important. Yeah, I think we talked a lot about the, we have previously talked about the self-preservation instinct and the idea of like evolutionarily speaking, the self-preservation instinct keeps your person alive, right? Like the your energy goes toward keeping you alive. When you move into this sexual pairing instinct, this is about keeping you and me alive, the other person. Like what do we have to do to sort of propel the species forward? And oftentimes this comes with a little bit more energy. It's less about preservation and more about some type of movement, of growth, of change, of like, because if, if it worked to just stay where you were, then you wouldn't have to move into this pairing space. If it worked to be alone, you wouldn't have to pair with another person. If it worked to stay as you are, then that's just preservation and evolutionarily thinking about this. Like there's movement, there's a catalyst, this needs to be something that causes change, that has a level of intensity and energy that when types are in this instinct, this is something where they need something a little bit more, you know? Just as we did with the self-preservation instinct, we're going to just highlight four big themes that we think carry across all nine types when they engage this gear. And so anytime somebody might talk about, you know, a sexual three or a sexual eight or the rest, this will apply again for TJ and I think we all have access to this gear. And it will come out at times. And I think like this one actually is one of the gears that we really can see in the same way we saw the self-preservation, that it has clear places that it comes out and it's probably in the intimacy that we share if we have a lover. As a species becomes more developed emotionally and intellectually, we tend to choose partners that are different from ourselves, that are complementary. And those complementary aspects have huge evolutionary value. Right. The fact of procreation is also a, like, there's a reason that this instinct is called the sexual instinct. Like procreation requires a level of intensity and connection that is good and valuable for our species, for us individually. Yeah. There is a level of intense connection and an intimacy that takes place surrounding the act of procreation and that's a risky thing. It can create life and it can also break lots of other things. This would say a different way. If you can't be emotionally intimate, vulnerable, expressive with another person, then this is a great sign to, again, your biology that you're probably not going to make good parents together. I'll probably bang this drum over and over again, but we're not exclusively talking about sexual partners. Yep. And it's just not what, that's not what pairing is. It is included in pairing, but pairing Jeff and I have a deep and intense relationship where we are, like, this instinct is heavily involved in our relationship. And neither of us have any desire to have sex with each other. Right. So, like, that's not what this is always about. It's about the connection with another. It's about sharing yourself and your life and your space and having some kind of connection with another person. These tools can be employed in other places, apparently, that are not pro-creative in nature. Right. You might be birthing other things as we talked about, like you're birthing a podcast, or the business. I mean, there's countless great examples in pop culture of duos, as it were, who are doing something together that's very important. And I imagine I have no idea what the biology is on this, but I imagine that a lot of the psychology that's taking place probably comes out of the skill set that was there early, early, early for pro-creative purposes. But now, it's used for other purposes. It's used across the board. Yeah. So, this would include that deep connection in intimacy is going to include problem solving. Oftentimes, when you feel like you need to solve a problem with another specific person, you're probably shifting into this gear, into the pairing sexual gear. So, this happens for me, like with my parents. I need to solve a problem with my parents. And that's a very one-on-one, intimate, vulnerable, expressive kind of place, right? It may be the case that I blow past all boundaries in that space. It may be the case that I'm actually pushing for intensity and engagement in that space. And all of that is, are going to be characteristics that we see with this instinct. So, the first big idea here is deep connection with kind of those ideas in mind. The second is that the sexual pairing instinct really elevates risk. When we talk to the fighting gentleman at the art of growth, they really wanted to push this as kind of the primary for sexual subtypes. You're risk-averse for the most part, but there's all sorts of times where you have to shift into that gear and say, "Nope, for the sake of the things that I really want, I need to risk some stuff." And when we're talking about risk, there is a level of uncertainty about the outcome. Emotional vulnerability is risk. There's a lot about that word "risk" that is not just danger to my physical person, risk. There's risk expressed in all kinds of ways, and we'll play this out a lot when we go through all of the types, but particularly thinking about the way that our passion, our sin folds into these instincts, and like, risk comes with it and combines with that thing, and risk is often just going against what is normally comfortable. And it can be as simple as me speaking to another person when normally I wouldn't. You know? Risk, in my mind, especially relationally, because these are social energies, risk is about being more assertive, being more bold, taking some chances there. It can be, just to build on what we said before, it can be a place of, again, emotional vulnerability. It's the coming across hot in relational connection with a single person. You are the starter in that situation, for the most part. If you're engaging this instinct, oftentimes the energy is coming from the person who has more of the, you know, has engaged the pairing sexual gear to start the things moving. The other big thing here is, it seems to me that it is very risky to be authentic, to put forth your authentic self. When we were talking about self-preservation as a gear, we highlighted that image can sometimes come up as a protective measure. That those who are in self-preservation mode will often put forth an image so that they can kind of hold some of their self back and preserve themselves. This is flipped here. With the pairing instinct, authenticity, again, vulnerability, emotional expression, that's going to come out in this space with this gear. If it's go time to say, "No, this is how I really feel," you're pushing into that gear, and that's risky for many of us. There is no one-size-fits-all for any of these categories, particularly thinking about authenticity for twos versus authenticity for force. It is risky to be authentic for twos because what if you're too much, and it is risky not to be authentic for force. The risk involved in that authenticity idea is different for each type, but it's still like that is part of the calculation of what risks am I taking? How am I presenting myself? Image is a problem for force, and they don't want to present an image ever, and twos are not tied into themselves necessarily, so being authentic might be too much for another person. I'm excited to talk about that idea around the whole circle. That's a good call. In fact, we're going to hit twos and force today, so we'll highlight that. The third big idea I have is the desire for impact, and that can come across as a desire for impact in relationships, that can come across as a desire for impact in shaping and changing the world. Again, the hot energy is here. There are often heightened emotions that come out in reaction to the world itself, and wanting to move it or move the person in front of me. The desire for intimacy can come across as I want to connect with you, and that means like that can be an engagement that has a lot of energy and power behind it. So energetic exchange, vibrancy in our interactions, if you're in this gear, that's obviously probably not true of all of us all the time, but that is true of us some of the time, and that's the point. Yeah, and we're starting to see that all of these categories can sort of interplay and intertwine with each other and feed each other. If you were looking for, if you were in a place where you were instinctively looking for intensity and connection and you're willing to risk your safety, your peace, your whatever in order to gain those things, then you want that to have an impact. It just makes sense that part of this would be wanting it to mean something, wanting it to change, to move, to grow, to push. Something is moving forward in this. And if it's not, then there is no impact, right? Supposing to go back hundreds of thousands of years, risk, desire for impact, this is birthing children often have those two things in mind, or if there's intention behind them. Lastly, I got personally charismatic, compelling, and the use of charm. If you shift into that gear of I'm charming the person in front of me, I'm seeking to elevate my charisma for the sake of winning, wooing, getting the attention of connecting with the person in front of me, then that's this gear. Yeah, there's a sense of, I keep you're trying to attract a mate, you need to do something to make yourself attractive. And that, I think, this will be much more meaningful when we get to fives, but like the fives are not necessarily charismatic, but the thing that they are projecting, the way that they are trying to draw other people into them is by exposing the thing that they actually care about, right? So they're looking for a fellow nerd who's going to go deep with them into the subject that they're interested in, so they're going to broadcast their deepness, right? Putting on something that draws other people to you will be fed directly through those main motives of each type. I told a side note, like the characters kept popping up for me as I was doing the study and Hannibal Lecter was my sexual five in terms of, I was like, who is this person? That's just this person that's going to help me formulate my idea. So as you were talking, I was like, yep, that's how that works. I mean, he's magnetic. There is definitely that I am seeking to pull you in close. Those are my four themes. We're going to start this time with the sexual ones. We started with the self-preservation instinct in nines, and here we'll start with the sexual instinct in ones because this is my dominant instinct. I feel like I live in this gear more often than not, and so this doesn't mean that I'm necessarily bonding with my lover all the time in this space. It does mean, however, that my desire for impacting the world, I'm often quite emotionally exposed and expressive in nearly all of my relationships. I'd much prefer, again, these kind of pairing interactions, and we've said this a bunch, but I would prefer to have one person in front of me who I can interact with, and when it gets beyond that, it's a little bit more tricky. I have noticed this most severely recently in the fact that I went from one dog to two dogs. I don't know how to parent two dogs, because it's now a society. I would focus on the one dog and be into their thing, but two dogs, too much for me. Forget the other one exists. It's more that my mind becomes a buzz with too much. You're being pulled in two different directions. Too much going on, and I don't know what to do, especially because they're not always sexual partners. Sometimes it's dogs. The thing that hits me, so I want to start with deep connections and intimacy. Ones are going to come with some zeal, come with some intensity, and that's going to come out in their relationships. The sorts of relationships that they establish and the endeavors that they seek to grab. There's much more, I think, with ones in this gear. There's much more of a focus on connection and even influence. We've mentioned this a handful of times. Are you on my team and are we going to build something cool together? For ones in this gear, they are processing the world through what they create and accomplish and do. And oftentimes the relationships, as we've said many times, pretty much form around that for this kind of one in particular. I'm here to improve the world, and I'm looking at you, and what are you doing? And is it matching up with what I'm doing? And if so, man, we're going to ride that energy. And if not, I'll shake your hand and wish you well. That connection piece, like ones who are in the world looking to be good, to be better, to make things better. There's a drive here to pour a lot of that energy into someone else's good. Oftentimes, right? And we are building something good together, but we are building it because it will make us both better. It will make the thing that not only our relationship will be strengthened because of it, but the space in which we inhabit will become better because of it, because of this growth, because of this movement. And oftentimes, these ones, in that desire to improve things, the project is the other person. Yeah, and that's the other side. That would be a second way this is expressed. But as you were talking, it was like, "Oh, yes. And there's the other element." And it's that this instinct comes out as the motive comes in. And it's, "I need to improve something. Well, what do you need to improve?" Well, I'm having a conversation with this person in front of me. Probably, they need their life to be elevated. Right. And I have a tremendous amount of knowledge and expertise on ways that you can make your life better. So here, take all of everything I'm going to lay it all out for you. Here's the steps that you can take to become a better human. Two different things there. And it's really worth naming. One is, I'm pairing with another person who's probably has complementary skills, but we have similar ambitions and similar targets, similar goals, similar. This is what we want to achieve. I'm not necessarily trying to improve that person. In fact, I love finding people who are really great at things that I don't have to, I can give them their space and take my hands off. But oftentimes, the other thing emerges of, "Where are you into? Are you into business? Are you into philosophy? Are you into sports?" And then the conversation starts and it's like, "Oh, you should read this book. Oh, have you listened to this podcast?" And there's the conversation style becomes, "How do I offer something that will move this person forward?" I think we've talked about this before on the air. I bought a house in 2018. And Jeff and I had many conversations over the course of my wife and I looking for a new house about what was the right decision on how to move forward with housing. And Jeff had a, you had a lot of things to say about what was the right move for housing. And it was entirely filtered through your understanding of how real estate market works, especially as an asset for long-term financial goals. And there was so much wisdom in what you were saying about that. And the reality is, we needed a house so that I didn't have to live where I was anymore. And rent was too expensive. So the best option for us was buying a house. But the desire within that exchange is, I want to see you make the best decision possible for your financial future. Here, let me tell you everything that I know about this and encourage and push and like this is what you should do. Because also wonder idealists, right? And so much of those conversations was about wanting me to make decisions that made my life better. A quick background here, like all of my wisdom was spot on holds. 95% of the things that I said TJ were just true gold. There was 5% that was trying to look into the crystal ball and see what was ahead. And this was, TJ was right to forget my advice and move ahead because I was totally convinced that if he was going to buy a house, he may lose a bunch of money for a little while and he just needed to be prepared to lose a bunch of money for a while. And actually, that's still great advice. If you're going to buy a house, you should be willing to know that you might be 20% upside down here in 5 years. If you can be in that spot, do the house. In good news for TJ, his house tripled in value in the next 4 years. Right, right. We live in Colorado in 2020 happened. So it just changed everything. I can't move because I can't afford to move, but my house has increased in value. And this is just a, this whole conversation, it's a great example of the intensity, the assuredness with which Jeff comes to this topic. It's big. Like he is very confident that he knows what he's talking about and he wants you to know as well because he wants your life to be better. This is like when ones are in this sexual instinct place, they are sure that they know how to make your life better. I'm sure we're going to cut 5 minutes. And the reason we're going to cut 5 minutes is one, I'm sensitive to criticism. And so I had to come out and say all sorts of things. And dear ones, this is where the sensitivity to criticism from others may take place because you're being authentic, you're putting out your vulnerable self. You're giving your best work and seeking to pair. And when criticism comes back, that like you have thrown a big left hook and now you're open to getting hit. And that can be very personal. And so for ones who have that, I suppose for many types actually that engage sexual instinct. Imagine that if you're sensitive to criticism, it might come across here. One of the things that comes out in a lot of ones like myself that are dominant in the sexual instinct is that we value openness and vulnerability as a good. This is how you ought to be in the world. The deceptive side is like, well that's a moral failure, isn't it? You ought to put out yourself and that can get us in trouble. And it is a level of intensity. It is part of that deep connection. I want you to know my true self. It is also like that idea of proactively preventing negative perception of your decisions of your behavior. That is so many things that have to do with that connection, with that intimacy, with authenticity is important in this sense because you need to know that I don't have an ulterior motive behind us. As has been said in the past, because ones don't want to have a lot of junk inside of them, for some of us, we're just spilling that out. It feels a lot better, just have it out there. Just so you know, here are all my faults. So that first deep connection, intimacy, comes out a bunch here. A second overlap is the risk taking, which again we've kind of talked about, but one of the things I think is, I routinely see in the literature something that I push against, and it's that ones are rules followers. I am not a rule follower. I break rules all the time with assertive zeal. You know, this does not apply to me. And so when shifting into sexual energy, the pairing energy, that's where that is taking place. There is an assertiveness and will and the desire for control. And I can get out of your silly rules through my moral justifications, which I've become very good at advancing. And so if your rules in my mind, heart, and the rest are seeking to trap me, control me, and especially if they're trying to harm me, I can simply dismiss the rule in movement in a different kind of direction. That is a risky way to go, especially in, you know, it's just a society that's based on rules. But I feel that impulse quite a bit. And this is one of the places where it's really interesting to think about that word risk because for ones, when you take the type of person who is idealistic and black and white thinking, and a lot of the stuff that we just associate with ones and you bring the sexual instinct into it, there is a moral imperative to do the right thing regardless of the rules. That can be part of the, like, I'm telling you how to better your life discussion, like the sexual, when ones are feeling that pairing energy, it may be a really dangerous place for them to stand up to power to nail 99 theses to the door of a church. To even tell the person across the table from you something that they may reject, but you feel the one feels the moral imperative. It's actually riskier to them to not follow that instinct than it is to put themselves in that kind of danger. It'd be a bad person if you didn't tell so and so, right, they need to get their act together. So what I see as wildly risky sometimes in that, like, entering into the conflict space, for Jeff, it's actually riskier for him not to do that. Like, entering into that conflict, he does not see that as risk, right? Another example of this is that some ones in this space are actually even going to pump themselves up and see risks taking as good. We're going to listen to podcasts about risk taking, we're going to, you know, read books, and a lot of it's going to be justified by, again, by the end and the target. If you have an idealistic end that is worth your one and only life, why wouldn't you sell everything you have? To grab that. That's going to be catnip to people like myself. So as has been said on this podcast handful of times, you know, I do commercial real estate investment and in the last three years, I have more debt now than I've ever made in my life by threefold. Sure. The amount of debt that I have would take my entire working career to pay off three times. However, I have some grand ambitions, I have some fairly clear targets, and the numbers make sense to me in X, Y, and Z. And so since the numbers make sense, because I have these clear targets, because this is what I want to do with my life, where's the paper? Somebody say they would loan me the money? Done. And I'm able to blow past risk and the weight there. I have shifted out of my self-preservation space, clearly, and I've put it into this gear, and we're going. We're going to do something amazing, and that kind of moves into the third big idea, which is impact on the world. Did you have any thoughts on that on the risks side? I think even moving, folding in some of that impact idea a little bit, ones are often the type who will stay to finish the job when everyone else has left to move on to something else, right? There's a completion necessity. You haven't finished until you've actually finished, and when we're talking about these kinds of risks, it is also risky to be the only one who's finishing the job. And when one's idealistic ones step into large risk, they will follow it through to the end. The last big endeavor I had, I remember a handful of times having to say, I already understand that I'm going to be the person to turn the lights off here. So let's just jump to the chase in terms of our conversation, because we all know how this plays out. I will be the one left hanging with this problem. Not because you want to, but because it is a moral imperative. This is just how this is going to go. And I knew who my partners were. And I knew the hole that I dug. I literally, I dug a hole for myself. This doesn't always happen, but I certainly was willing to be the person to turn lights off. But so yeah, risk taking does not always end well, apparently. Sometimes you can hit a wall. But deep in my core is this third thing, is I desire an impact. I far would rather have an impact on other people in the world, et cetera, than to have something like a comfortable existence. This is the place that I just shift into that gear. Happiness for me looks like impact. Happiness for me sometimes looks like a comfortable existence where it minimizes problems. But really, when I say what do you want the rest of your story to look like, it's probably going to have a lot of movement and energy and the improvement of things that I care about comes out of this gear. And this is, we're talking about part of the, what's the word we like, earning, reactive? Sure. Yeah, both of those. Yeah. This triad, once, twos, and sixes, a lot of their processing is done outside of themselves. It's the verbal processing. It's needing to know that the thing that you've created works before you know whether it's a good idea. Or not, right? Like the working it out in real time, in like seeing the fruits of your labor, that is whether you know the labor is good or not. And so impact being part of this, this instinct is like it draws on so much of what goes on with ones anyway, like there needs to be some type of thing that has been created that has been very clearly moved from point A to point B or whatever else it is. If it has not changed anything, then I probably didn't do it right. Right. You know, like that, if there isn't an impact, then why make the effort in the first place? Improvement almost always requires a ton of energy. This happens in the world itself. It also happens in relationships. I'm routinely delighted when I get in a fight with AIDS who don't realize that I have extra gears and they shift into the gear where they think this is where the conversation ends. I jump to the next gear and push them hard because I actually desire that vibrancy in the interaction almost as much as they do. It's actually very seldom in the case. I can't actually remember the last time I really had a conversation that hit the levels that I just thoroughly enjoy. It's just way too loud, way too intense, but just that I can't live in that space, but I do enjoy that space, you know, maybe once or twice a month, but that's a desire for impact and connection. And emotional vulnerability is risky, right? And furthermore, thinking about ones who need to be good and need other people to see them as good and emotional honesty is dangerous for ones because you may come across as not put together. And this desire for an impact, this instinct for change and growth and movement, thinking about that the way that ones are normally in other spaces when they're not tapped into this instinct, it's much more likely that ones are going to be overly controlled in their expression. That is a good person is someone who is moderate in their emotional expressiveness, right? And then you get into this instinct and part of having an impact may require you being more emotionally expressive. Right. This brings up the counter type in part, and it also brings up the passion, which are both work, well, I mean, these go together. Yeah. Anytime the word counter type comes up, it's where the Enneagram type doesn't quite look like itself. And sometimes when we shift into one of these gears, it stops looking like itself in terms of the, you know, what would you call it? The outward expression, the visibility of a behavior. This Instagram post doesn't make sense given your behavior. You can't be a one. You know, that's right. The caricature. That's the word I was looking for. Yeah. Ones are not the type to get rowdy at a bar. Right. But sexual ones have a real having a really intense conversation with close friends. They might get a little rowdy at a bar. The anger comes up. So ones are a body type. We're going to struggle with anger. In terms of the passions, we get wrath apparently. Right. So suck it, eights. That wrath goes inward, as has been often said. But for sexual pairing ones, that wrath will go outward. And it can be just a rage at things not being right in the world. Right. Because you can see how this works with the desire to make the world there and to impact the world. You know, anger is an energy that can get stuff done. Yeah. And that's here. Yeah. It's a tool and it's part of that vibrancy, the intensity of connection. Like, if you don't ever get angry, then this is one of the things that, like, I mentioned that my wife and I don't fight pretty regularly. And, like, there's this thing that is always part of that conversation that, like, if we don't fight, then there's something wrong. Right. And the sexual instinct is the one that says, if there is never any strong enough feelings to cause anger to be expressed, then it's not deep enough. So I've said this a handful of times that I grew up skiing and lived 30 minutes outside of some of the best skiing in the world. So I know it's like to go 70, 80 miles an hour. I am in control. Right. I'm very aware I'm in control. I have never crashed in a severe way. There's a measure of control there that's incredibly important to me. And if I lack control, I'm going to get really hurt. I feel almost the exact same way about my anger. Yeah. I'm generally in control. If I'm going to let anger out, it will be in a funneled way, a directed way, a laser-like way at things that I feel some moral justification about being angry about. Unless I'm in a really unhealthy space, and T.J. could probably recount 28 stories of me of my anger not being very directed. I don't know that I'd get up to 28. Spastic. But I think in their healthy space, ones can have that kind of element. I wanted to pair this, lastly, with idealism, that the desire for impact and the idealism of ones easily overlap here. So, in terms of their affect, ones connect to the world by making it better, by trying to pull people into the better world. This, in an unhealthy place, can almost come across as a conquering mentality that we're going to go dominate. We're going to change things. And it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks or says. We're doing what's right. Right. That can be a very negative way of being. That moral imperative can really turn things ugly quick. Sometimes that can be the way that the world has changed. So, Gandhi takes on that perspective and says it doesn't matter what's the quote. 20,000 British soldiers will not be able to retain 50 million Indians if those 50 million Indians decide not to cooperate. Right. There's a moral justification. We are going to dominate you. And there's nothing you can do about it. And here's where thinking repression and wisdom really need to enter the picture for ones is wisdom needs to really be elevated as a primary for ones to ensure that you're making good choices if you're going to exercise this gear. Because if you live in this gear, unfortunately, that's just part of your personality. Right. It can be a scorched earth kind of behavior. Now, that being said, sometimes the institution needs to be burned down. But ones living in these actual instincts can find that they set fires wherever they go. Sometimes those are good fires. A lot of those who engage the sexual energy can set fires when they didn't need to be set. Right. But sometimes it is the case that this building needs to be destroyed so that we can build something else. Right. And then it again, it's wisdom. Right. Just because Americans at one time cast off the shackles of a country doesn't mean that they need to do it every time. Right. It's not always the case that you rebel every single time. Sometimes it's just not wise, kids. And for the perspective of the thinking specifically of the perspective of the one, like sometimes your belief about what needs to be changed, fixed, improved in the other person, in the world, in whatever. Sometimes you are right. And sometimes you are imposing your perspective on someone else who doesn't see it that way. Yeah. That needs to be known. Yeah. Because that's obviously that can be a huge problem. Right. Lastly, on this is personal charisma and that charismatic side. I still think that Steve Jobs is a one and I think that Steve Jobs exercises this gear. And if you read his biography, especially if you hear interviews with people who knew Steve Jobs, they always talk about how charismatic this man is in one-on-one settings that he's going to sell you something. And that use of charm that apparently he has is just a dominant part of his personality. And he wants to make things perfect. He wants to, you know, in terms of his spirit, in terms of his business, like his perfectionism is all over Apple. Right. And he's selling it. Thinking evolutionarily, like part of this instinct, it comes from needing to attract a mate, right? And you have to, there has to be something about how you project yourself into the world that is attractive. Right. And so when sexual, when that sexual, this pairing instinct is active in ones, their presence becomes magnetic. The way that they are talking can be revolutionary and inspiring. And like, when you combine all of the things that we've talked about, like idealism, plus the desire to improve, plus like this really like self-assuredness that I am, I know where things need to go, plus passion, plus this desire for deep connection. And when you combine all of those things, you get someone who potentially can be very attractive. And I'm not necessarily talking about like physically attractive. There's something beyond the physical attractiveness that is projected that in order to draw people in, in order to inspire people to, in order to give people hope or to encourage them to stand up to the British Empire. Like, there is something about this kind of like leader that a lot of us want to be able to follow. Tim Cook is a great CEO for Apple, but he is not even a little bit as inspiring as Steve Jobs was. And also, Steve Jobs was also a notoriously jerky person, if you were against him in any way. Justify against bad behavior based on ideals as well. Right. And also, that dude knew how to sell a phone. Have we talked about how great balance is when using the Enneagram? A balance, you say? I'm not familiar with that word. Is that the thing that goes over the curtains? As someone who engages this gear, let me elevate for the sake of all of us, that balance is a great good, especially for those who are the sexual pairing ones out there. Which brings up the pairing twos. So, I have my notes in front of me. Nearly everything just comes back to the desire for deep connection. You know, just over and over again. So, one of the ways that we assembled our notes for this was we took countless hours of interviews, we put them into a large language model and tried to kick out themes in order to find, you know, what's really going on here? I kept thinking, need for connection. You know, this person is aggressive in pursuit. This person, you know, has boundary issues. This person wants intensity of relationships, very much about reading people. But everything kind of came down to twos in their sexual hair just are wired for deep connection and emusy. Yeah. And that is, and that can be in pursuit of your career goals. That can be in a desire to, you know, provide for your financial stability. For whatever thing you're aiming for, like this sexual energy can come out in a way that is like, I know that if I win that person, then I'm going to get the thing that I want. And it's not winning in the way that threes will, but it's the earning side. If I just do enough, then all the rest falls. Yep. Yep. And that can be, you know, this is the sexual energy that can be in a way that is drawing sexual attention to yourself. That can be in a way that is, you know, forgot that can be in a way that is drawing, you know, people to yourself in a sexual kind of way. It can also be like at work. If I get my boss in my corner, then I'm going to get the next promotion. The energy I want to highlight here, and it comes out for me in boundary issues. And that doesn't, that's not just in seeking a lever. This also can often come out in how one is advancing their helpfulness into the lives of others that the two targets. That can be, we often talk about kids on this front, but this clearly can be coworkers. This can be neighbors. This can be any number of folks in terms of the pairing energy coming out in terms of, I am here to be helpful. Yeah. And there's going to be a connection because I'm so helpful. You will notice the heat there. You know, you'll notice the assertiveness. And the on this front, the two is being vulnerable, because the person from may say, you know what, don't need your help today. Thanks. Right. And even talking about the emotional openness that comes with that deep connection, like there, there is the intensity of some of the most outwardly emotional people. Like, so, so twos are often like some of the most emotional types. And when you bring in this sexual energy, their, their emotional intensity gets bigger. And, and so then you have this desire for the deep connection for more intensity with the other, but you're also now pairing that with this need to get and stay connected. So, but if I'm too much, then that'll push them away. And so I have to make sure that I'm presenting the right amount of intensity. And like, this is one of the places where risk is, is a big part of the calculation. But the two finds their person or their people, and they are bringing intense gifts. It may be the case that the person that they've connected to is likewise just capable of kind of the endless supply of love and favors. And, you know, and gifts and the rest. Right. And I imagine that could be a wonderful relationship. Right. Right. I also was thinking about like, like terrible stage mothers, you know, like the, the, the moms who want to live vicariously through the success of their child. Which, you know, can be any type, but, but also there is this sort of caricature involved in the idea of stage moms that's all about like, I am going to make, I'm going to do everything in my power to help you become this thing for your own good. Stage moms is a great example of the two deciding for the other person. What is good for them? We didn't mention it with ones, but it may come up with some of the sexual subtypes. And this gear is that codependency may become a thing for sexual types. Yeah. For those who are living in the space, it's very common that like you might have your person and all your chips are on Fred, you know. And, and that may be great. If it's just you and Fred against the world, it also can be the case that the codependency. Well, it has negative codependency itself can have some negative elements. Right. Right. And the, the, the intensity of the pairing instincts can also become its own volleyball source of problems with you and other people. Yeah. Because if the two is, you know, if, if Fred is a terrible person and all of the two's friends are saying, Hey, Fred, Fred sucks. You need to move away from Fred. And the two is, is too tightly bound in that pairing space. Then the two could come out swinging against anyone who has anything bad to say about Fred. Yeah. Because that is their safety. That is their protection. That is the place where they know they are quote unquote loved because they have paired with Fred. Yeah. Imagine twos in this space may be the ones who struggle most with, with breaking up. I think you're exactly right. Or even with having a breakup that has occurred to them, you know, staying attached to someone who has left would also be a problem. Sure. The last thing was kind of this, they kind of comes out of this is struggling with boundaries. In, in the pursuit of deep connection, you can, you can just eliminate the boundaries. Right. Self care is already going to be a challenge for twos. Right. And, and maybe for some of the other types. And so those, if you're in this gear is a two, you know, self care, maybe, maybe tricky. Well, and, and thinking about self care, particularly on the heels of talking about codependence twos struggle with this in general, but particularly when the sexual instinct is, is active. They want to remove all possible obstacles to the relationship to growing and deepening and like you don't want hurdles in the way of some of trying to get someone to come to run to you. Right. Right. So twos will remove those hurdles, sometimes to their own detriment. Right. Like they don't want to have boundaries because they're trying to draw other people toward themselves so that they feel loved and connected and, and protected and provided for. And if there are hurdles, that's problematic. Right. To build on that so much of the emotional intelligence that twos have is just going outward. And that's their radar. And sometimes it's hard to look at yourself and what you need and serving yourself and making sure that things are short up, especially if your energy is directed at, I need to pair with other people to get my needs fulfilled. Right. And, and this is one of the places like thinking about pride as the thing that is, is it like the big stumbling block for twos, Beatrice Chestnut uses the word seduction in talking about twos that are in the sexual instinct. And I like that idea of wanting to like wanting so much to make yourself not presentable, but, but alluring to draw other people toward you in a seductive kind of way that can be sexual, romantic. But it can also be that sense of like Steve Jobs is seductive. Yeah. He's gonna, he tricked the world into buying into a closed ecosystem. You know, and, and it worked. I'm on board. It, it makes sense to me. But the, like that, that seduction that there is a certain amount of certainty of your own specialness of your own certainty is the wrong word, like that pride is the thing that fuels that seduction. And there's the, the desire for the security move there in terms of exclusivity that the two who, you know, really feels the security move when they go into four of wanting to be unique is, you know, that's, that very much make materialize here. Right. I like that in terms of, because if I'm just a helper, there's countless helpers. Right. But if I'm your, you know, your special person, you know, it's different. If I have like a closed ecosystem, if you were buying into my thing, and I'm it, you know, and I'm the channel. I'm irreplaceable. Yep. That I can see being, you know, something that she's could position themselves to be irreplaceable. Right. Right. I think that's a good hitting of, of that image of charisma and charm. This, the, another one of those big elements for sexual gear is risk. And we've kind of hinted a bunch at the emotional vulnerability here. But again, the assertiveness boldness. I suppose we've talked about that as well. It's really overlaps with the twos for me in terms of connection and risk. I mean, it's just, this is the energy coming out from the space. There's a, the, the sort of caricature understanding of the helper, the provider, the whatever we say about twos at sort of the surface level, and especially thinking about the way that a lot of particularly women who were raised in a certain type of religion were trained to be this sort of like docile servant. Right. And this is the other side of the different that all of that, the like pride and desire for intensity and intimacy. Like all of those things boldness like there is risk to being a helper in front of people as opposed to behind the scenes. You know, there is risk to putting yourself out there in a way that draws people to you. There is, there is a need for a certain amount of boldness to see someone from across the room and know I want that person to ask me to dance. Yeah. It's supposed to even like shift it back and on the intensity side. It's quite risky to be the one who welcomes other people. But oftentimes, like twos putting themselves out in that space of you're new here. I mean, welcome you around. Like that, that in itself is risky and it may be this gear. Right. It's again the case. It's very seldom that I can think of places where people pursue me to apologize to me first. I normally am the one apologizing to other people first. Yeah. Yeah. And risky. But there again, like the two doesn't see that necessarily the like a two, a pairing to doesn't necessarily see naturally see the risk in the same way that we see the risk there. Because the risk, the higher risk of sending that email is that if I don't repair this, then I've lost that connection. Yeah. And I also think that the two's really struggle with like thinking about risk and particularly thinking about this, like this pairing idea that there is a lot of risk involved in the authenticity that twos bring to the table. Because they don't want to put forward some type of image or fake thing because that is risky to not have your your full self there. Because if people are on board for something that's not real, and then they see the thing that is real later. There's a better chance that they're going to leave. Right. So you have to present enough of yourself. That is true for people to be drawn into what you believe it's true about yourself, but not so much that it pushes people away. So this, this like calculation involved in those risks in the being authentic. Yeah, that like twos are always writing that line because if I, if I give too much, then I am too much for an I'll be rejected. Right. The target here is probably important. This energy isn't coming out for everybody. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's this is not about attracting the group. Right. This is about attracting the person. Right. And I'm looking at Tyler's X notes on this, which were real helpful. I was, I was curious about your thoughts on this. He says, this too is more of a lover than a helper. Humorously, this subtype has been associated with the dangerous beauty of a vampire consuming another person with their engulfing love. As you were talking, that's just what came to my mind. I don't know if that holds. I think he's borrowing some of that from Chestnut, who really wants to emphasize the femme fatala side of twos. Yeah. But I don't know any thoughts on that. I mean, I get that. Now, I just want to argue about the technicalities of vampires, but that will get us nowhere. So, like, I think that the idea of, like, the consumption, the intensity of that kind of relationship is, is, I think that's a good metaphor to communicate that. There's a desire for so much intensity that I can actually feed off of you. And that's part of what twos are getting out of relationships is they feel that the fact of the connection is the goal. I think that's right. Okay. So, really important point. And as we've been talking, this has been, I keep wanting to apologize for how intense this is coming out as a critique. And I suppose the one stuff came out kind of as a critique. I never get really emails and had a person send me, "You were real hard on the threes in the self-presse section." I was like, "I don't even remember what I said about the threes." But I think it's the case that some of, if you go hard into your instinct, some of your worst self can come out in these places. And so, again, contrary to some, when TJ and I elevate balance as a real virtue, and to say the subtypes is probably a bad way to think of yourself for this reason. It's like you need to balance these energies because when they get all the power, you know, you might not, you know, I don't know how you avoid some of the negatives that may materialize here. And a lot of our whole conversation, like the big picture conversation about this instinct, there's so much more emotionality involved in this one. And when we are talking about twos, threes and fours who are in the heart triad anyway, and this is part of how they understand themselves in the world around them, is through the emotional connections they have with other people. You get into the sexual instinct and it just goes further, and we're not saying this is a terrible thing. We're not saying this is always off-putting. We're saying that if you are unaware of how this instinct pushes you into other people's lives, then you might be doing some damage. You might have found the perfect partner who can take that intensity, and that's good, and you should, and we love and support that. And also, if you've always struggled to find a partner, this may be part of what needs to be examined. Building on that, some of the best expressions of this four twos are going to look like severe collaboration and partnership. A lot of loyalty, a lot of how can I advance the thing that you're interested in, and here's what I need in return. And for some of us, that person can be just a treasure. Bang, twos, love you twos, I feel harsh on that, so my apologies, but there's lots of positive things here, I'm sure. Absolutely. Just know that that was more the criticism, or trying to expose some of the pitfalls I suppose. And, you know, just for anyone keeping track, keeping score at home, that is a great example of the sexual pairing energy coming out of a one. The need to apologize ahead of time. To our dear listener who I have a personal relationship with. In case you are misunderstanding my intentions, I want to put my intentions out there so that you know. If I was being defensive, I'd say, "Well, rewind the tapes of the sexual ones who I said might burn down the world for their ideals," which is slightly worse. Yeah, pairing threes. All right, the deep connection, again, is here. The pairing threes, the sexual threes, it's a different kind of energy. I do recognize that the self-preserving gear is seen as the countertype. I didn't make up this list, but the sexual gear, I think, has a run in my mind because here's the thing, when threes are in pairing sexual space, they're not going for the attention of everybody. They're going for the attention of her. They're going for the attention of him. A lot of times that becomes very directed in nature. I find this interesting. You've got thoughts on threes looking for deep connection and intimacy. Yeah, I think that at the core threes are looking to be praiseworthy, be worthwhile, be excellent, and avoid any kind of appearance of failure. When the sexual instinct is active, when they are pointing out their energy at another person, it is entirely possible that their goal is to accomplish this one thing. That could be sex, that could be a successful marriage, that could be a business partnership, that could be at the worst. Their attraction can be about drawing someone in so that they have this tool in order to help them get ahead. There is something about partnering with someone who is going to offer them something for the sake of their own success in whatever they're doing. There was in the art of growth panel. If you're having a chance to listen to some of the panels of the art of growth, fantastic. It's a podcast or a set of podcasts, but they have a podcast just for threes and in the sexual panel. Nearly everyone on the panel said that they were the sort of people who had lots and lots of boyfriend girlfriends as they were growing up. It's kind of an early obsession with pairing and being affectionate and getting the sort of attention from a singular person that they craved. And when the attention had been exhausted, you break up with them and you find the next person. And it was like a very serial in nature. Anyone who's been in a long-term relationship ever in their life, you know that there are sort of seasons like that honeymoon phase. The very beginning of the relationship is like lots of big energy, lots of intensity, lots of things happening, learning, all kinds of stuff about each other. And eventually you sort of settle into a little bit of a routine. You settle into normal, stable, hopefully. And that, like there's no spark there. And there's countless books and therapists and movies and things about a married couple trying to figure out how to get the spark back. And this is one of the things that for threes equates to failure. If there is no spark anymore, then your relationship isn't working. And whether it's business partners or an actual marriage or sexual relationship, like when the spark is gone, we need to either aggressively fix this problem or move on. I think that's exactly right. And it comes from motive. The motive paired with the pairing gear means we've talked about temperatures being a real sign of each of these instincts. So the hotness that comes with pairing sexual energy, the heat needs to be maintained. If you're going to live in that gear. I think this happens to be just who I was really attracted to as I was growing up. It was mostly sevens and threes. And sevens and threes can discard you so fast. So many relationships I had with girls growing up were of that. I was just like, oh, I guess things are done. And just moving on. And that comes out, I think, here. I think you're saying the reasoning correctly. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. A healthy self-aware three who is leaning on that sexual instinct for a specific purpose can probably communicate a lot of that as well. And bring that into the intense burst of their relationships saying, hey, this thing is going to be fire for half an hour. And then we're going to leave and go our separate ways. And it's like that can be the self-awareness there is the part that is. There will be lots of image maintenance throughout. And even in the breakup, there will be a. Well, I think that thinking about this is the center of the heart triad. And we're talking about an instinct that is about connection and other people and relationship. And so when you get into this space, threes need to be admired, right? And threes in this pairing instinct need it so much more like that, that they need that attention, that admiration, that people, other people seeing them and being drawn into them, they need that intensity. And when the relationship gets to a place where that intensity isn't there anymore, then it's the attachment, detachment group, they can move on. Yeah, there you go. That's great. Yeah, it's the affect. There is a relational manipulation that can come out in these threes where they are building relationships quickly and for the purpose of gaining the attention. And that's, yeah, I suppose what I'm trying to, and this doesn't just have to be between lovers. I think my language has gone down that road. This can be obviously, you know, across the board, but their charm social skills are seeking to achieve whatever their goal happens to be. And maybe their goal has nothing to do with, you know, romantic connection. But oftentimes threes of this sort can captivate when you use up, and as you were saying, discard, once the energy isn't there, once the desired thing isn't there, once the goal has either been, you know, check marked, or didn't get realized, you know, we're just not hot anymore. Right, we're moving on. Right. I have a fair amount of three friends and I'm thinking of one in particular to that really struggles with any kind of lukewarm relationship. But purportedly not a highly like sexual instincts person, but still like when things sort of calm down in relationship, there's an unease that can't, can even sometimes be like so intense that it's that it's, they don't know what it is. And like it is, it has to do with that missing intensity that the lack of deep connection that is for a purpose, right? So like maintenance of normal maintenance of relationship is really problematic sometimes for threes in this sexual instinct. Yeah, because that normalness is like, there's no spark there. But, you know, that's still a thing that all of us have to deal with. It's also the case that, how would this work? If you're having to fix a problem and it's just me and you, there's the emotional vulnerability and threes don't want to look like failures. And so if we're having to fix things, there may be a different solution and it's just like, okay, let's just wash our hands of this go our separate ways and we don't have to spend any time on that. Right. But the, the, on the other side of that, the risk of being emotionally vulnerable in order to draw someone else to you to, to have the, I mean, it can be winning to have navigated a difficult situation in a relationship. Right. Sure. Like I'm thinking of like, maybe the three who had a spouse that after 20 years cheated on them. Yep. It can be the case that that three looks at that situation and says the most successful version of the, of like the most successful ending of this is us coming back together. Agreed. Yep. I think that's a good call. And they won't tell that story till five years later. Right. When it's all resolved. Prepared and we're rolling. So the last thing I had on connection intimacy is, and this was something that pinged for the art of growth group was their chameleon like adaptability. That is when the three is in one on one conversations, they can tell whatever story they want about what they believe, what their intentions are, what they are pursuing. So, you know, you, like in the political sphere, you meet a guy with a certain t-shirt on and you say, Oh, you know, here, I'm going to connect with you by talking about your t-shirt and how I too share these things. And then you see another person who has the, you know, the opposite side of the t-shirt and you say, Oh, hey, and say something about yourself that connects with the person regarding their shirt. And it's, it's, I can massage the truth in order to create the connection. Right. And because it's in these compartmentalized spaces is the big thing is, since these two people will never meet each other and never talk about me, I can paint things, however I wish, and then juggle those balls. Right. Because the appearance and the connection is the important thing. So looking for the connection, looking for the intimacy, trying to get into those spaces and then whatever your goal is in that moment, that's, that, that just is. So we've talked about the passions, a handful of times, this is where deceit can live for, for threes, for sure. Yeah, there's a lot of conversation about the, the mask that threes put on the, the thing that they wear. So like you walk into a room of this type of person and you put on the mask that makes you look exactly like them. Yep. And then you leave that room and you take off the mask and then you walk into a different room where there's these other people and you put on a mask that looks exactly like them. Right. Yep. This can be a very dangerous place for sexual threes to reside. But, but tying, like, I think mature and wise and healthy threes can recognize that, that they are actually highlighting a part of themselves, like when they tap into their authentic selves. Right. That, that desire for pairing comes forward, that instinct comes forward. This can actually be a really, really valuable and, and good and beautiful way that a three can highlight different aspects of themselves. Yep. Moving on to risk, that's exactly where authenticity can live for threes is, is in this space. In this gear, when you actually do pursue, you know, emotional deep connection with another person, it's very hard to live superficially. It's really hard to live in a deceptive space. Right. You know, your authentic self is going to come out because they're going to see it and you're going to need to reveal more things and you can't lie all day long as it were. Right. You know, the authenticity over image is going to, is going to emerge. Right. And for some, especially, I suppose threes to, to go a step further, who are, you know, are feeling repressed type, the emotional vulnerability is also going to be something here. I mean, Julie, because, yeah, emotions can be messy and are even required to have this sort of connection. So, this is actually a balancing place. And I suppose this is why I was, I'm more inclined to think, I wonder if threes wouldn't be a great example of a counter-type because I feel like a lot of the balancing counter-types end up having a lot of the balancing places for the types. Sure. And so, I want to, I'm not going to argue with anyone on this because I couldn't even define counter-type till yesterday. So, but I think there's something there. Well, I think that, that sort of moves us really pulls in that, that idea of impact because the center of the heart types, it's often the case that like the impact that they want to have in, in that sexual instinct is the connection, the relationship. The impact that is important is some kind of spark between us. We are both changed by just interacting with each other in an intense kind of way. Yep. Yep. That's, that impact is good on that front. And on the negative front, this is kind of where, again, the emotional manipulation can live. So, I'm pushing in these, I'm pushing the individual into the forms and places that I want them to go. Yeah. There's another thing that often happens with threes and it's the attachment side of like my good, my success is your good, your success. Like we merge, the merging that can take place in attachment types for threes I think is here. And so, there are sometimes that threes are actually the cheerleader. They're not the person on stage. Sure. I'm the one who's elevating in, in their desire for impact comes through. I have bonded myself to this successful person and I'm trying to get them to succeed. Right. So, I know nothing about this person is all speculation, but I think it's the case that Abraham Lincoln's wife was this sort of person. She's never going to run for president, but she married the guy who could run for president and all of her energy is very, you know, image conscious and political. She ended up being this great pairing in which he rises to power. And there's, there's, I mean, there's a lot to be said about the being the model politician's wife, right? Especially at that time period. Yeah. There's, there is something about being really good in your supporting role that is also really successful. Well, that's, well, did we talk about charm? We didn't, but this is, I mean, the, the, to me, this is one of the places where you threes are full of charm anyway. You know, like threes and sevens, the, the sexual instinct, it just, it just makes something that's already really good better. I suppose it would be more, this was similar to twos. It's like threes don't flirt with everybody. Yeah. But that, I suppose is what goes for my mind is, is the, and again, this doesn't have to be romantic in nature. But there's shifting into that gear of I'm elevating the charm offensive. Yeah. Flirtation is a good word that can live in that space. Yeah. Yeah, there's a, I mean, it's winning people to your side in order to achieve your goals requires some charisma. Yeah. And, and this is, this is, I'm talking, we, we didn't talk that much about deception, but deceit, but like, this is one of the things that you could be a total failure and a terrible person. And if you're really good at this part of your sexual instincts, you may be able to convince the world that you are the best. Yeah. Let me think about that for a second. When you brought up winning, I was like, yes, competition emerges here, but there may be goals to win. There's a, there might be a difference between the social winning and the bonding sexual winning. So with flirtation, I'm winning this person. Yes. And the rest of the world be damned. Yeah. On the, on the social or even the self-pres winning, it looks like I can use up people for my purposes as long as I'm holding the trophy at the end. Mm-hmm. I didn't come here to make friends. Right. But occasionally, threes can shift into this gear in order to advance their purposes. Right. And if they live in this gear, then it probably will be the case that they have just much more of a singular target of this person. Things in the world of me. I suppose in the workforce, you have a boss who is a high achiever, very well regarded. Yeah. And your singular energy as a three is I need to win their interest in terms of how I do things. Yeah. It'd be that sort. Well, and I'm thinking of like the other side of that, the boss that's the three in that same scenario has a lot of skill in convincing other people to make him look good. Yeah. Probably has a need. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it'd be, it's the millionaire who doesn't know how to dress himself. Yeah. No, I go to this hairstylist and this hairstylist is very enthused about making me look good. Or I have, I have a body man. Yeah. Here's your suit. You're going to look amazing. And there's like this fantastic. This apparently Italian. I know nothing about Italy, but I sure look good. You know, so it's. Yeah. Yeah. Well, flip it over to the force. Pairing sexual force. Anything that comes to mind immediately on this gear for force. Do you remember Dexter? I do. Lila is a perfect image of a deeply unhealthy sexual force. Okay. Yeah. Go into famous ones. Love. Lila. So much. I had this conversation with a friend of ours and I said how much I liked Lila also. And she was like, yeah, just disgusted that I was like the worst. And I think she is such a compelling villain. Because like she is so certain of her own specialness. Yeah. She is so certain of his specialness that she will literally burn the world down. Yeah. In order to draw him to her. It's a good example. If you don't know what we're talking about, go watch the first and second season of Dexter. That's fantastic. Lila is so great. Intensity is there. Pulling this person into their romantic vision of the two of them. The deep connection is coming from the ambitions and, yeah, getting the romantic fantasies of this person probably in a connected relationship. Yeah. That's where intimacy is going to be had. And it's hot. We find ourselves talking about another idealist. And still like deeply rooted in that heart triad. And like there is like this, the idealism here is about emotional relation and intensity and attractiveness and sentimentality and all of the things that are about the heart center. Like there should be intense feeling, intense experiences that have to do with this. The way that we are related to other people. Yeah. Where the three is getting invited into authenticity. The four lives in authenticity and truth telling vulnerability. You know, those are going to be just magnified by this gear. This is how we are going to connect. This is also the type of four that is like fours living in the being in this pairing instinct. They're probably going to be more outwardly expressive of the bigness of their emotions. Especially because they're going to choose their target. Right. If you have a sexual, you know, instinct that's dominant, then when you unveil yourself, it will be to the person. Right. It will feel like the too much in this probably comes out. It's here and it's probably going to be singular. And so much of that is about trying to find someone who not only gets and accepts my intensity but can match it as well. Right. So like fours looking to be seen and understood. They feel like nobody really quite gets them. The sexual instinct, this pairing desire propels them to find that special one, that special other that will get them, that will match, that will be able to withstand the intensity that they bring to the world. And that can obviously, again, doesn't have to happen just in romance. This clearly happens in friendships and arrests. Right. And in fours who are looking for somebody to just understand them. You know, because this could be the relationship of four has with their therapist. You know, or we have one of our close friends. I would assume has a high gear here in terms of this person will commonly text just a single individual the thing that's on their heart that is oftentimes quite dramatic. You know, and we're going to work through that. Yeah. And it's not a group text. Right. Well, and I think that like Chestnut calls this competition. Yeah. Because like these types, that passion of envy, like I don't have what that other person has. It, their energy often gets that, that envy gets funneled into a sense of competition, a sense of, of instead of wallowing in what I'm missing, I'm going to, I'm going to show that in these other ways, I'm better than that person. Yeah. Like I'm, I'm going to win something in order. Like it's a, it's a turning up of the intensity that is already present in force. I'm supposed to jump to the end. The charisma and charm might come out there in terms of how force might express that. Like of this is where they're going to, they're going to hit that gear where they're trying to win. Right. And we'll, we'll, a part of that's going to be, I don't know if charm's the right word here for force, but it's going to be definitely the, the wooing somebody. Yeah. Yeah. On, on the positive side, the deep connection and MSC, some of these, like force in this area can be a treasure to a lot of us. Yeah. Who just have natural heart level intensity, who will like, you are struggling and let's go there, you know, and deal with this. And they are present and they're available. And just, again, just have that gear to, to deal with some steps. Yeah. Yeah. This is a, a concept that we talk about a lot when we talk about force, but like they, they don't need to fix anything. And, and especially when we're talking about this sexual instinct, like the intensity, even of bad feelings, of grief, of whatever things, the intensity is the goal. So fixing it is not part of the equation for force and, and force in the pairing instinct. And it's, it's just, it, it's fine with them to sit in the problems, to sift through the muck and, and right, cover themselves in ashes and just be there. Like that, that is not something that they need to fix because they crave the fact of whatever is actually happening. Yeah. That's a positive, there's all, I suppose there's, I wrote this down and it's kind of the challenge that some force are, will be healing from what they perceive as past trauma or maybe in fact, past trauma. And the, so I want to bring in the idea of risk here. The, the risk that I think that this gear invites is I'm going to deal with all the stuff in my past. You know, all the people in my past. Because they are so vibrant in my mind of, of the bad things that had happened. And it's, that's risky to, to have those sorts of personal journeys into that space. Sure. That also can be a space that you end up getting stuck in. Right. You know, if you're not able to actually process that in a healthy place, but I think for a lot of us, like I feel this, like there's all sorts of conversations that I don't want to have, I probably am not going to have with people I care about, because I don't, because the, the risk actually for me in this is actually too much. Yeah. Yeah. I want to think by the hand in hand with that, like a different aspect of risk is, is the, the aversion to stagnation. Okay. There is a level of sort of jumping to the next thing that exists here more than it does in the other two instincts. Yeah. Because they, like when things normalize, then they're not intent anymore. And so, so, like at the drop of a hat, fours can, like, I remember talking, listening to those, the art of growth interviews with the sexual force and like, several of them have moved around a lot in their lives because they get used to a place. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's too normal, so they have to move. Yeah. There's a, again, we see those of us on the outside of this see this as risk. And, and the four sees a stillness that is not desired. So, so you're saying like dealing with, with past issues actually is the forward movement. That's, that's, that's definitely part of it. Yeah. I don't want to confront any of the past harms that have happened to me in my life because, you know, conflict is dumb and it's much easier to just sweep it under the rug. We're already where we are and it's okay if nothing changes. Right. But fours, desiring that intensity, desiring authenticity, like this is a big part of fours, naturally, just part of who they are. They want to be authentic to how they feel in the moment. Then you bring in this sexual energy, this, this pairing instinct and it says, like, dive head first into emotionally fraught situations because there's, there's a beauty and a realness in that, in and of itself, even if you don't fix the problem, being in the reality of the situation is good. There's also the, there's part of their coping style. They're part of the emotional response triad and so pushing for engagement. Mm hmm. And that, I suppose that goes alongside that third big idea that they, the desire for impact relationship really comes out in this type in terms of, I mean, twofold. There's the, when force can externalize their suffering, you know, the, the complaints that may come forth, the demands that may come forth, force in this space, I think, and vocalize their needs. Mm hmm. Yeah. And that, again, quote unquote, like the too much in this, I associate with, with some of that and, and the quote unquote, the drama that, that may emerge is in these spaces, but especially in one on one space. Yeah. Yeah. And, and the, as, as is part of, of forness, like there's, there's a, like, putting this energy out there to draw people in and when, like, it can also be the case that, like, when they come in and it's not what they wanted, they push them away. Yeah. There's an intensity in that, in and of itself. And also, like, the, the desire for that emotional bond that, that, like, can often be very idealistic of, of, of, like, the, the soul mates level connection of meeting someone and all of a sudden, like, we're already finishing each other's sentences because we just get each other. Like, there's an idealism for that thing. Well, it's that the relationship itself needs to have a base in reality and it needs to get tested apparently. Yeah. And if it's real, this one on one connection, it will survive all of the energy, the emotional, you know, truth telling and honesty of, of feelings that are, are thrown forth. Yeah. And, and I, I want to make a little bit of special mention to, like, fours are in the heart triad and, and connection and relation and, like, other people's feelings are, are part of their world and also this is one of the places where fours can become, their focus can become narrowly pointed at themselves in using this desire for intensity and truth telling in a way that says, I need to speak my truth and it doesn't matter if it hurts you. Yeah. Because motive, they want to be seen, they want to be understood, they want to be acknowledged and they're in, in this gear, they're going to get that by being vocal. Right. Especially with the individual, if they can, if they can get them in that space where it's like, now I want you to see me. Mm hmm. And, and even in particularly on healthy spaces, there can be an attitude behind it of if you can't handle my truth, then you don't deserve it anyway. Right. Right. And, and that again ties back into this, this push pull kind of thing, wanting to draw people in. And when they get close, you push them away. This is, this can be part of it. On the, on the flip side, the, because that's what is expected by the four, oftentimes they are willing to have the opposite go on in their life, you know, when someone needs severe empathy that like that's a place they can easily shift into that space. Right. And especially as a connecting point, and especially when I'm talking about wooing somebody, that may be the real entry point is I'm going to do my best to understand you. I'm going to spend a lot of time with that upfront investment and show you how it's done. And then when I shift into now you need to understand me, now there's a tip for, there's reciprocation and, and that's kind of how, you know, it's not charm, it's wooing. Yeah. So if you, if you ever like meet someone who skips the small talk and asks you a really intense personal question about your childhood, like there are people like that in the world, they could be sevens who are just looking for like more stories, but there's, there's a good chance that the desire for a deep connection in this moment comes from the sexual instinct of the four. Yeah. Right. And especially in certain kinds of atmospheres, like you can, you could imagine like a round table therapy session in which like that's what we're here for kids, you know, maybe the foretakes that job, especially because they can set that atmosphere and really get into that sort of thing. That might actually in fact be a great, you know, gig or, you know, like, I have a, just since I used to work in ministry, a lot of the folks who are doing music want to have, you know, come out of that for space, because when they come to, okay, here's the corporate event. What do I have to offer? What I can offer is pushing people into their most, you know, significant emotions when it comes to connecting with each other and with God. Right. Bang. Anything else on force? We didn't talk much about the charisma and charm. And I think that there is a way that fours present themselves to the world that that requires them to be true to themselves, right? But also especially when they are activating that sexual instinct, that there is a way that fours can, can navigate can like the image that they are putting forward, the version of themselves that they are putting forward is naturally like romantic perceptions draw all people in, and they especially draw the right people in, right? And so there is something about how you are presenting yourself from that sexual energy that is, is, is basically like, it's a, you're raising a flag trying to find, get all the people who know what that flag means to come to you. Like it, it's a bug zapper and the cool summer nights. It's, it's, there's this, this projection of your own specialness, your own, the way that you are interesting and, and are, are different. And dare I say superior to the, the schmoes that are around all the, all the normies that are around you that when the right people see that, they will come to you. I hadn't had a person in mind for this and until you started talking, and then the person that came to my mind is somebody we spent a lot of time on and it's Prince. Prince seems like a great, you know, four who probably has a dominant sexual instinct. And charm isn't what I would say about Prince. But that compelling, yeah, there's a very word, it's a lure compelling charisma. Yeah. You know, that's where it's highest is in a person, I don't like that, but it's not charming somebody into connection. It's, it is, I'm presenting myself with an alluring power. Yeah. It's not the kind of charm that wins a room. It's the kind of charm that wins the right people in the room. Yeah. And that's again, going to be the, for all the hard types, they are targeting on that front. Yeah. So I'm, I want this person's attention would be the move. I think like this is, I literally just now thought of this. So there's nothing to back it up. But like Andy Kaufman, okay, as, as a, as an entertainer, he, the thing that he is bringing to the table is wildly off putting to the vast majority of people and he likes it that way. Sure. Because, because that part of it was because he was being true to himself and part of it is that he can, it's so much easier for him to sift through all the people who just don't get it. Right. Right. Because of the way that, and the people who do get it are the right people. And it's not just that, but like, it's entirely off putting to everyone else, but it's charming to the people who get it. Yeah. You know? Bill Murray gives the speech in Tootsie where he's a, he's a playwright. He's like, a lot of people went there opening night to be filled and packed. I don't know. I want it to rain. Yeah. And I want, I want only three people spread out and I want them to get up in the club. That's what I'm looking for. You know. Yeah. Something like that. Delightful. Good work. That's what I got. You got anything else? Nope. Not on these friends of me in the world to us. If you'd share this episode with somebody you love, preferably somebody who's into any gram and it's time to take a next step. This ends up our stuff. We have started getting feedback. I keep talking about how nobody gives us feedback. Actually, we're getting feedback a little bit more regularly now. And perhaps rightly so, some folks are questioning the five-year rule of waiting on such types. Oh, so now we're getting the wrong feedback. We're getting folks in, perhaps this is rightly so, saying, you know what, I couldn't, I didn't type myself correctly until I got into instincts. And so that, and my response was, that wasn't your job. That was the teacher's job. The teacher needs to know about the instincts. You should focus on the core things about the anagram and live in them for five years before you jump into this material, but you got thoughts on that? I mean, my initial less tactful response to that was, like, well, yeah, that's because subtypes takes five years. Instincts, I feel like you could start anytime. But subtypes, that is one of the things that I'm hoping that we're going to get out of our work on this, is that, like, for the most part, instincts, subtypes, et cetera, is messy, muddy, makes things very complicated, very quickly. And then there are a handful of types where if you don't do the work of learning about these instincts, you're not going to get that right. The sexual instinct coming out of one looks so different, that I have been a part of, and this is not nearly all of them, I have been a part of several conversations where people were trying to convince Jeff that he was not a one. And there have been so many more that I wasn't even a part of because the way that the sexual instinct comes out flavors the oneness in a certain kind of direction, right? And so I think there are a lot of people where this is really necessary to get into, like, where is that base motivation coming from because my behavior looks so much different from other ones or sevens or whatever. I hope that some of that can be drawn out from the work that we're doing. Yeah. I think it's a challenge. It's a challenge for me in terms of, I suppose, I'm not working with anyone, so I suppose it's not really a challenge. But for those who are doing integrand work, you know, who are in therapeutic setting or lean others, then knowing about the instincts, you know, maybe you should wait five years before you're doing the therapy setting, Ryan, you should familiarize yourself with the instincts. So that when typing that might be part of the conversation, because I think if it were the case that somebody was radically thrown off by how their type is spoken about because of their dominant instinct, then the teacher should be able to step in and say, "Here's what you ought to focus on," given the fact that you're, you just end up having a unique injury point into your motive, so I thought that was fun. Well, we're going to spend just a couple more weeks on instincts, and if you've gotten this far, I hope you're enjoying it. We're going to do a deep dive into, we're going to do interviews through the fall and I'm really excited for all the folks that we have in the lineup. As always, if you want to connect with us, you can find us at AroundTheCircle.org. We'd continue to meet once a month on Zoom, would love, love, love if you have you. It's very easy to sign up, and music by the collection in Bryan Clackston, and you see J. Wilson. He's officially awesome. I'm Jeff Cook, and who you want? This isn't interesting. [MUSIC]