[music] We're back. It's episode 11 of The Hunting of the Mason Dixon podcast. I'm your host Jordan Jones, and I've got a guy in today. If you're from the south, if you're from North Carolina, you're probably going to know his name. His name is Dawson Durham. Dawson, what's up, man? What's up, man? Glad to be here. Absolutely. Thank you for making the drive to come down here and not do the stereotypical, like, Scott and podcasts. I mean, I'm going to have to do some of those especially, but I just like the in-person thing. What you think, man? I don't know. It's going to be here. I don't know if your views are going to go up or they're going to go down. Once you put my name on anything, deer hunt-related, I feel like either people's going to tune in or they're going to be like, "Oh, hell. Dawson Durham." Hey, listen, dude. I mean, from the first time, like I saw your name, it popped up and like a buddy of mine, honestly, he said, "Look at this kid. He kills giants every single year, and then you shot this deer, and you're wearing this t-shirt, and I'm going to take a picture of the t-shirt, and I'm going to post it on Instagram, see a like." And it's absolutely, it says, "You know you're the shit when people that don't even know you hate you." And it's a picture of you holding a burner, a North Carolina burner. And that's what I love. I mean, I don't care if the views go up, go down, whatever. It's my podcast. I do whatever I want to, you know. But I... Okay, how about this? Give me some backstory of you before we get into, because I know I love the controversies and everything like that. And that's what I'll get it. We'll get into that later. But tell me a little bit about Dawson Durham. Well, I started deer hunting back in, let's say, fourth grade. I'm a hunter with my dad and my uncle, really on my uncle's farm. And I didn't kill my first deer until fifth grade. I shot... My first deer ever was an eight-pointer, probably scored like 90 inches to 100 inches. But I hunted two years in fourth grade and fifth grade, both seasons. And my dad's always going with me. And he's like, you know, you can kill that spike or you can kill that deer or whatever. But I told him, I was like, I want to kill a big deer, like, you know, him, like my dad or my uncle always killed big deer. So I was like, I want to kill deer like y'all. So I'm going to wait. So my first deer ever was an eight-pointer and scored about 90 to 100 inches. I got it mounted on my wall. And I'm the most proud of that deer as a viney deer. Even the two big deer I killed this year. I mean, that deer right there taught me a lot. But it kind of, you know, started the fire. And ever since that deer, I've been hunting ever since. I started hunting on my own in middle school. And in high school, I ran indoor track. I ran cross-country indoor track and outdoor track. And my season was kind of booked, so I didn't get much time to hunt. So I didn't really get into like trophy hunting until college. And last draw, I know Jordan was on here just a couple of weeks ago. And last draw, I followed them on Instagram. They, that was kind of a big influence for me, seeing how they like grew deer and let deer go. So they grew up, you know, Jordan's a good guy, man. I really like Jordan. Yeah. And ever since that, I started, you know, spending a lot more money in the deer hunting. I used this to be like a weekend hunter, you know, go out there and put a bad corn out and sitting at a two-man stand. I was like 15 foot high. And then I got into growing deer. I tell everybody, like, I tell everybody this. I mean, it's just like if you have cattle or horses or what not, any livestock, you got to feed them to grow them. And same thing as deer. I mean, you got to spend the money and you got to feed them, put the minerals out, feed them year round, let their grow, grow, so they can grow. And I've been doing that and I fell in love with doing that. So I consider myself like a trophy hunter right now. I got diagnosed with AlphaGal nine years ago. So I can't eat red meat. So like, take bite. Yeah, from a take bite. So anything I kill now, it's like, I feel bad for killing it because, you know, I can't eat it, but I feed my family or whatever. But now it's just like, I don't kill anything that I'm not going to mount. And it's got to the point now that like, I want, honestly, I'm not trying to brag or anything like that, but I honestly won't kill anything now that it's under 150, I don't think. And living in the South, man, that is insane. Now, do you live in North Carolina? I currently, I just moved back to North Carolina. So I live in North Carolina right now. You do like Eastern part where you live. So I live in Stokes County, North Carolina. I mean, everybody on Facebook wants to know where I live and where I hunt. So I mean, yeah, I guess I'll go ahead and drop the county. I live in Stokes County, but I have the most land in Rockingham County. Yeah, I got, you know, well over a thousand acres in Rockingham County alone. I got land in Stokes County. I mean, I got land in Surrey, I mean, I got land everywhere, little bits of pieces everywhere. I tell everybody this, you know, like, I'd rather have five acres somewhere than a hundred acres somewhere. I think little farms, growing deer, you want a big farm to grow a deer and have history with a deer. And I do have some big farms that like, I have like a 340 acre farm that I got deer that I've had on camera for four years. But I think them like three acre and five acre little plots. Every year, I'm like excited to check cameras there, because you never know what's going to show up on that like three to five acre little farm from the neighbor property, you know. Well, I mean, but that deer right there, my largest North Carolina deer technically score wise came off two acres. Yeah. I prefer, I tell everybody this, I mean, I really prefer hunting them little plots. Like, I mean, I've got some spots that's like two acres. I mean, you know, one and a half acres, and I'd rather hunt them if the location is key. Now, I've killed since 2020, I've tagged out North Carolina every single year since 2020. So for four seasons, I've killed two deer in North Carolina every year, all being pup and younger, bigger. And I've killed a deer out of state every single year for four years in a row. And I tell everybody the same thing in North Carolina, they're like, how can you kill four years in a row? How can you kill a big deer every single year? And the main thing is you got to be where the big deer are. I mean, you can't be in Western North Carolina and kill boners or kill one fifties every single year. No, you got to be in Rockingham County or Stokes County or, I mean, there's gravel or waker always, like just central, you know, Northampton, you know, there's a lot of big deer in those areas. It's really about... It's agriculture, I think, don't it? Agriculture and genetics. I mean, every single year, I mean, right now, I got cameras out right now that I got 140s on camera right now in velvet. And I mean, how are you doing it with the mineral ban now? So yeah, in Stokes County, Rockingham County, what sucks is I can't bait until like September. Yeah, you can't put out minerals, you can't do anything. No, I think it's a stupid law. So if anybody's listening to this, they need to change it. Hey, Thomas and I yesterday, we got into it. We got into that, like the CWD stuff yesterday, and it sucks. Because you go to Alexander County, which is eight minutes down the road from here, and I have to debon it from right there to come to right here. Yeah, it's terrible. I mean, it makes me so mad about the baiting thing, makes me mad. But also, once I kill a deer, I can't take it across Carolina, go to a tax dermis. I think the past, like, three years, I've had like six different taxidermist. Because like, you know, I... Wherever county that you killed it, that's where you want to take it. Yeah, it's terrible. But yeah, right now, I just got cameras out just on like, you know, travel areas, you know, bedding areas. And so, I don't bait where I don't put minerals out right now in my main big buck spots. But when it's soon in season, as soon as I am allowed to bait, I put it to a man. I bait so much, man. It makes me sick to know how much money I spend every season putting minerals out. I do put minerals out late, but like, I'll put... I'll start putting minerals out in like, November and December, just to like... Well, minerals are for next year. Yeah. That's how I feel. I mean, you put up minerals now for next year. Yeah, that's why I look at it. 100%. So, I've got a whole bunch of minerals here at the house. I'm going to know how in two weeks and I'm going to go up here and I'm going to load it down with that dicalfa speed and all that stuff and trace and stuff. Yeah. So, yeah, um, yeah, I like I... I'm at that that bait wall. I can't stand, but once once I can bait, I'll bait hardcore and I bait year round at locations I can. So, I mean, I got I got little spots like in different counties that I'm allowed to bait. Like, I'll bait year round like protein feed and whatnot. And I used to do that in Stokes County, Rockin' M. I used to buy pallets and pallets and pallets of bait. But once the CWD law came out, you know, how to stop that. But yeah, I'm excited for the next... Do you have a video? You have a video and it's the greatest video. I'll get, we'll get into it here in a little bit. But, well, hell with it, I'll even say it like where you're talking and then you just drop the truck bed and there's like, how many years of corners? There's freaking 10,000 years of corn and as it drops out of the truck bed, that's pretty good. I like that. Yeah. That's kind of the hated part. So, that's... But like I said, we'll tackle that later. I want to hear about the big deer, like the two big deer that you killed this year. You killed one for sure scored boner, officially scored boner. And another one you didn't actually score it, but I mean, it's on your T-shirt here. It's a giant. We know it's a... We feel I feel that it's really damn close to a boner if it's not. Yeah. I killed two boners last season, weeks apart. I think it was the second week of season I killed the first one and then the next week I killed the other one. So, it might have been the first week actually. I can't remember. And I saw that you didn't know that the first one was there. No, no, not at all. So, what's crazy, this is the story about that last season, which was insane was I had the... I call them the crazy buck, the one that has his drop times. If anybody listens, knows me, knows my name, you can look it up. I killed a crazy deer that scored like 174 and 4/8, whatever it was. And it had drop times everywhere. It had an 8-inch circumference base, crazy deer. And I had that deer on camera actually, all early season from like, from like nubs all the way up to like growing to like being a giant. And I was after that deer hardcore. I knew I focused my whole season, like I hung out of state and I planned. I was like, I'm not even going to hunt out of state because I was going after his deer in North Carolina in my home county. I was like, I want to kill this deer. I know it's going to be a record deer. And so, I put all my efforts into this deer and I was hunting them so hard. Well, I had cameras out like trying to like locate them and everything. And he was coming on camera every single day. Like, he was coming in daylight more than he was at night time. So, he was daylighting in the morning, lunchtime, in the afternoon. And then he wouldn't come much at night. And then I knew I was like, I have, I felt personally, I had like a 99% chance of killing this deer. But lo and behold, when season came in, he disappeared. How you going to start dropping? Yeah, I don't. Well, this is what I think happened. And there's a story out there. People probably already read. I did for, I think, North American Whitetail or whatever. So, I had a bunch of predators on camera. I had bear on camera, coyote on camera, and a bobcat on camera every single day. I didn't have them early season, but right around, I think like three days before season started, I started having a pack of six coyotes come on camera every single night. And I, in my opinion, I was like, well, this deer stopped showing up, this crazy deer. He was coming every single day. And all these predators started moving in. The bear started eating my bait. Coyote started coming in like crazy, just sniffing around. You know how like a little bobcat walking the road bed every single night had all these predators on camera. And I honestly thought that the predators was scaring the big buck off, keeping them away from the bait. I knew you was still close because like I knew I was near as bed or whatever, but I felt like the predators was like kind of scaring them off. So, or change their pattern at least. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. So, the first whole, first whole week of season, I was hunting, but I really wasn't hunting no deer. I know I had that giant drop time deer on camera or whatnot, but he showed up in like seven, eight days at this point. So, I was really predator hunting, and I told this magazine that, and they, they twisted my words saying I was coyote hunting or whatever. And now everybody thinks I was coyote hunting at night or killed us deer, but the whole story was I was going hunting like I was deer hunting. I was getting a stand, you know, normal hours, and I was hunting like, I hunt so high on a tree, like I hunt in big, big, populars, and I go high as I possibly can, where the limbs like branch off, like I'm probably at 40, 50 foot tree. I think I hunt higher than most people do because I hunt out of a climber, and I think the highest you, highest, I can possibly get the less chance of like a deer smelling me or whatnot. I know the angle, especially seeing you because they're, I mean, having to look like a little ant up from the side of that tree if you get high. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, I, I can stand up and I can weigh my arms when deer in the bait pile, and they wouldn't see me because I'm so high up. But, um, I was way up high in this tree. I was like probably 40, 45 foot in a tree, and I was, I was trying to kill these predators. I mean, if the coyotes was coming out like every single day in the afternoon, so I was like playing on like killing them, that way the big, the big drop time deer would come in. And lo and behold, this deer that I got on my t-shirt right now, a giant deer, I mean, I think it had 14 scoreable points. Um, it showed up out of nowhere. Never had them on camera, anything. And everybody asked like, like, I've never had them on camera like the year before or anything. Yeah. So I don't, I don't know where he came from. I don't know if like the predators changed his pattern to make him come to me. I, I really don't know. I mean, he never came to my bait pile before ever. Besides when I was in the deer stand the day, I was actually like, in quotes, I was cody hunting because I, but I was deer hunting, you know, like, I wouldn't, I was just trying to kill some predators out that way. My big buck would come in. My big drop time deer, but lo and behold, this giant, giant like 14 corner showed up, killed that. Once I killed that deer, um, then I was like, dang, I still got this drop time deer. Like I was thinking about like, in the back of my head, like I wanted to kill that drop time deer more than anything. I've never killed non-typical deer. And I was like, man, it's rare when you kill a non-typical deer. In North Carolina, especially. They don't do that here. No. And, um, so I was, that was in the back of my head the whole time. And so once I killed that big typical deer, 14 or 15 points, I can't remember. And then I killed that a couple of nights later, the big boy showed up, the non-typical. I was like, Oh Lord, here we go again. So he starts showing up. Do you think I'm asking this? I'm sorry to interrupt your story. Do you think maybe that deer showed up in the area? Maybe he just hadn't found where you were at. Cause I mean, obviously you say you put it out a bunch of baits, he was hunting a bait pile. So do you think that he knew that that deer came to that area and may have changed his pattern? And he just happened to show up? Yeah, I mean, that's a chance. Yeah, it's a chance. I don't know. Like it was too very mature deer, like very old deer, giant deer. Big piece of property or small? Big, big. This is a big track of land. I was hunting on them. So I don't know if like they was like in competition and like, that's why they wouldn't show them up or I don't, I really don't know. I think, I think it was the predators. I was like, keeping them away, but I'm not sure. But after I did kill that typical deer, a week later, I ended up killing non-typical deer and which was like crazy. I mean, I still, what last season was it went by on a bleak of aye. I tagged out in North Carolina before September was over. Yeah. And that doesn't happen, especially on like people go, like I drove to the Midwest to kill what you killed. Yeah. Two and a half hours from my house here. Actually, no, not even that for an hour and a half. And it is crazy. I don't think I will ever beat that. I say this every season. I'm like, I don't think I will ever beat last season. But every year I seem to like, yeah, look, get lucky or what is it? It don't matter what it is at that point. It's just you're doing well for yourself. Yeah. And another thing too is a lot of people don't realize I hunt from day one, like when season comes in September the seventh or whatever, when it comes in North Carolina, I hunt from day one till January the first because I'm on business. I got rental houses. I do go for myself so I can hunt when I make my own schedule. I don't work for nobody. Yeah. So I hunt every single day until either I tag out or I kill the deer I'm after. Yeah. So in Virginia, like so I killed, I tagged out in September early September in North Carolina. Then I started putting cameras out in Virginia and I got a big buck in Virginia, a 10 pointer. And I kind of took a break after I tagged out in September. I took a break in October. I put cameras out and I had this big 10 pointer in Virginia. So I hunted that deer 20, I think 23 days in a row every single morning, every single afternoon. And I eventually killed that one in Virginia also. But people don't realize like, I'm not a weekend like the reason I killed big deer every year is because I got the time to do it. That's huge. Yeah, it's very huge because I know, I know I can count 20 people right now that's got they show me, they're like, yeah, I got this deer on camera. They show me on their phone, but they work full time jobs. They work 40 to 60 hours a week. And they only get to hunt like two days a week. And it's hard to kill a deer like that. It is, especially a big one. Yes. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you only got rut. You know, when rut comes in, you got a good chance of killing them, especially like I know a lot of guys that take off like the first week or rut or whatever, if they work like 60 hours a week, you got a good chance that week to kill them. But my favorite time of the year is to kill them early season, because that's when they're in still in their, could still be in their patterns. They had not they nine months without pressure. Yeah, stuff like that. Right when they shed their velvet. Yeah. So I think all four years, if I ain't mistaken since 2020, I've killed at least one deer in September, all four years in a row. Yeah, I'll let like, right, if somebody says, you can go anywhere in the world to hunt for free. Like if I can go to you get a little Costco. If you're going to look, Costco grants tomorrow, you don't want to open a week. I'm going to go open a week because I don't really like rut to treat. I don't either. All my do as I've got older, I hate it. Yeah, all my big deer and rut seem to like go to my neighbor's property. Like, because I feel like my properties were set up where they hold them early season. And then they start disappearing in November, but then they'll come back late season also. So like I aren't going back to the early season pattern. Yeah. So. Yeah. Well, I mean, so that's that's one of the biggest things is, you know, deer hunting obviously is your top priority, open and day, all the way to January 1st or to the last day of the season or two, you tag out and you can't kill big deer if you at work. And that's so I actually, so I work in pest control now. But about year five, I was like, you know what, I need more freedom because I want to chase big deer. This is what I want to do. I mean, I'm killing 120 inch deer where I live. And which is that's point of me. I'm fine with that. And I've killed a couple 130s around here, but I was like, you know, something I'm going to find a job to where if I want to go. So I did, if I want to go whenever I want to, I want to go even with the kids that I have. So I did the life insurance thing. Like when it started selling life insurance, I'd hunt every morning, go sell life insurance for five hours, go hunt every evening, then come to find out that it was hard for me to pay my bills that way, you know. And you tell me if I can go deer hunting or try to sell life insurance policy, I'm gonna go chase a big deer, especially if I get it on camera, you know. And so I went back to pest control, but it, but what you said, that does 100% true. If you want to consistently tag out every year, especially on big deer. Now, if you went to a weekend job, who knows what kind of deer you'd be shooting? I mean, you'd have the deer to chase, the big deer to chase, but you're thinking, Oh, God, it's, it's end of November. And I haven't shot a buck yet. That first 12513 steer walks by, you're probably going to shoot it. It's a, it's a, it's a come. So now I have a better understanding of why your standards are the way they are, you know, for North Carolina, because if you told me, uh, I don't shoot 140 inch deer in North Carolina, I call you stupid. And I'm like, what? Like, do you realize where we are? But then you have, you have the property, you have to know how obviously it's, it's no longer luck anymore. Like, you can have your average Joe go and shoot a 170. That's only ever killed spikes and four pointers and little bucks every now and then. And yeah, that's luck. But all of a sudden now, it's it's no longer luck if you're doing it every year. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's what I feel like, I mean, jealousy is an evil thing. And I feel like so many people get jealous over me. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. Great segue. Great segue. So you even say you said to me before we started this podcast, I feel like I'm the most hated deer hunter in North Carolina. Why? I mean, there's, there's several things. I mean, I don't, I don't know. I'm not trying to get a big head or anything, but like I swear, if I post anything or social media, I have so much backlash. Last year alone, I mean, I know last year you feed into it. Yeah, you do feed into it. And that's probably why. Yeah. But how did that start? I honestly don't, I really don't know. I mean, I guess it just, it just happened, I guess in my small, it's happened in my small town, I guess, rumors started to spread. I started killing big, I went from not killing big deer at all. And my honest opinion, this is, this is like the change that made me start killing big deer. So I went from being in high school, running track, cross country, indoor and outdoor all the time. That's all I focused on. I went to school for it. I went to school to run track. And when I was in college, only I only could hunt on the weekends because I would drive, I went to Wingate University all the way up in Monroe. So I would drive two and a half hours back to Stokes County, and to deer hunt every single weekend when season started. And I was the weekend hunter, but I had, like, if people would realize, like, if I killed every big buck I had on camera, you'd have your own TV show. I'd have my own TV show because I've had some fricking giant, I had an eight-pointer that scored like 170 on camera. Like I had like a 23 inch eight-pointer on camera, I would have killed my uncle, killed it. I mean, I had so many big deer that I was chasing by, I couldn't hunt them like I do now. And that that's the turning point. Like once I graduated college, I started owning my own business and got my priorities straight. And so it's a cross between money and time, which most people don't have. And they have a little bit of money that they can put toward the time that they can spend in the woods. Yeah. And you have, I mean, let's just say it. I mean, you have a lot of money that you can put toward it because, I mean, you built that yourself. Now, did you grow up with money? Not at all. That was what, okay, that's where I wanted to go with it. So like, yeah, so you're not a hundred thousand dollar bow hunter? No, no. Like, so this past season, I seem to stupid. I didn't know this existed. I made this YouTube video talking. I made this YouTube, so I post it back story. I post it. I killed these two big deer. I post them on Facebook, when he's hunting groups. Everybody and the brother started talking shit about me, how a spotlight, how I killed them in different states. Brown to North Carolina said I killed North Carolina, how I had night vision scopes on my gun, all kinds of stories. And I posted a YouTube, because like once people talk shit about me, so I ain't told Nick nobody this, but if you talk shit about me online, I will screenshot your name, I'll screenshot your profile. And I got on my phone, I got an archive of like 40 maybe. Oh, I got to see that. Once this is over, I got to see this. I got to archive like 50 people on my phone of people that's ever taught shit about me. So if you say something stupid, like on my, if I post something, a deer on Facebook, a public group and like saying, hey, I killed this deer right here, just bragging about it, whatever. And you coming under it and saying like, that one killed North Carolina, I'll go to your profile screenshot that name. And like, I got your name. So if in the future, if you ever like try to be my friend or say, I hold grudges, I'm the nicest person you ever meet. But I am the pettiest person you ever meet. I swear to God, like, I don't care if you talk shit about me. I got your, I got your number. Like, I can, I can find out where you hunt. I'll at least your damn land if I can. I swear to God, I will. Yeah, you are. I love that. I mean, whatever, like there's a, there's this guy, I mean, I ain't going to name drop or nothing, but there's this guy that was talking shit about me on Facebook. And I screenshot his name or whatever. And he was talking a lot of shit. Like every, everything I ever posted, he ever, he always like said some kind of like smart comments saying like, that deer would never killed North Carolina or I heard you spotlight or whatever. I screenshot his name. I can go on, I can pay $5.99. I can look up where he lives and everything he has ever, like I can, I can tell, if you give me 30 minutes, I can tell you what anybody in North Carolina hunts, I swear to God, like I can tell you where you live. I can tell you who your relatives are or anything. So I got everybody's like, if you talk shit about me, long story short is if you talk shit about me, I got your number. Like I got you saved on my phone and if you're going to say some shit about me one time, okay. But if you keep on with that bullshit, watch what I do. Yeah, exactly. And yeah, and this, I feel like I'm the most hated hunter because when, when people, when I post anything online, people don't shit. And then I'm like, you know, I'm sick of this. So I made, I told myself, I made a promise to myself, I said, I'm never going to post anything else on Facebook, on them public groups, because I don't care. I mean, I kill big deer every year and I'm not trying to brag about it. I just post my deer that way people can lighten pictures or whatever. You're not doing it for a like. You're doing it for a North Carolina. Yeah. Well, you do it for the same reason why most people do it. Affirmation of, hey, I killed a big deer. Look at my big deer. You're not doing it to show off or brag say I'm better than you. Exactly. Am I right whenever I say that? Like, I'm not doing it to show off say, hey, I'm better than you. I killed bigger deer than you. It's like, hey, look what I killed. 100% and like, and like, I go online and look at on them, Facebook public groups, a 14 year old boy can kill a, a four pointer and people still talk shit. Why would you, why would you shoot that deer? Yeah. Why would you shoot that deer? Well, I mean, there's eight pointers run around everywhere. Exactly. And then like, they'll, they'll have a picture with their dad and they're like, your dad should talk to you better. You know, you got to let them go so they can grow. I'm a trophy hunter. I 100% consider myself a trophy hunter. Like I said, I probably won't kill anything North Carolina. Less is one, 50 or bigger. Just because now I'm to the point where I won't kill anything. I can't eat it. It's not what makes you happy. It ain't, it ain't what makes me happy. I can't eat it. So I feel bad for killing something I can't eat. And you're not just going to shoot a deer just to shoot it. Exactly. If, if I kill any deer, I'm mounting that deer, you know, and now amounts are like $600 a piece. So like, you know, it's got to be worth it if I'm going to kill it. And but I'm that type of hunter, but I'm not going to talk shit about you. If you kill, if my neighbor kills a spike and needs help dragging it out, I'll drag it out. If it's brand, if you're the type person saying like, Hey, if it's brown is down, that's okay with me. I am not that type of guy where I don't want to talk shit about anybody. If you kill 120 inch deer, good for you. If you kill 180 inch deer, good for you. I mean, I'm, I'm the same. I'm proud of you. If you kill a booner, as is if you killed a 80 inch buck. I mean, that's the title. It made me feel good. You can understand. Dude, you're killing big here for where you live, especially. I mean, like, I don't kill boomers. I don't kill. I mean, I've killed one. I've killed a couple deer. I've killed one deer in one sec or one deer in one fifties. One deer, that's a booner. And then the rest of my deer are 120s and 130s. I mean, I got a whole waffle of spikes and four punters out there that I'm just as proud of those dears over here. And I'm not going to hate on anybody for shoot whenever they want to shoot. I didn't pay for their tags. I didn't pay. I don't know how much money they have in leases and corn. And I don't know what you do for a living. Like, I know what you do, but I don't know what you don't know what that deer might mean to that person. Yeah, exactly. And that's what I hate about Facebook, or is any social media really on the Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, anything like you can have 99 great comments. I'm graduating you. But the one you'll remember is that 100 for 100. Yeah. And the one you screenshots at 100 for one. Yeah. And I do I do screenshot all the hate comments and just just keep their number and just keep them back to my max. I feel like I feel like when a grown man, like, I mean, these are like, I got some, how old are you? I'm 25. 25. Okay. I got some 50 year old man talking shit about me. But they just think it's like, they probably get drunk at night and say, Hey, yeah, you killed that in Ohio, whatever. Like you killed North Carolina. They don't think well, that should be a compliment. Yeah. I'm killing such big deer in North Carolina. You don't even think I killed him. Yeah. But they're coming to my stuff. They don't bother me. Like, I ain't gonna like cry about it or nothing. Cause like, you know, whatever, I got haters. But like, if they come in with somebody that's like, spent their last paycheck buying bait and killed a eight pointer that scored like 110 and like, they are so proud as deer. But then they comment saying, you shouldn't ever kill that deer. You shouldn't let it grow another year. They don't really know what they're, I just, I just hate how people. It's hard to turn another cheek. Yeah. I just hate. I can't stand it. And that's what pissed me off. That's why I lash back. That's why I make them stupid videos. That's why I got track. I got track. What was the first video they made the chip on the shoulder? I made something. So I made, I make videos every year about, I end up deleting them because I'm thinking I'm, I don't want to have a hot head. You know, I'm not trying to brag or nothing. So like, I hate listen, but let's be honest, you are trying to brag a little. I mean, let's be honest. You got to brag a little. I mean, you killed deer like that. You have the, you have the, you have the merit to be able to brag a little bit. You have to. I mean, that's what we're all meant. And if you can't, the reason why people get offended, because they're not, I hate to say this. They're, they're not acting like real men. Because if, okay, say me and you go hunting, I shoot at 160. I'm going to sit there and send you a text. I said, look at me, my fuckers. Look how big my dick is. You know, I mean, that's, but we're all men. You should be able to do that. I should be able to brag to you. And you're just as happy for me, as I would be for you, if you, if you shot it and you bragged on me. Now, if you talk shit about it, okay, what's, what's, what's happened? It's a different conversation. It's a different conversation. But so what was the first video that you did? The backlash video, the past, this past season, my first video was a long, it was like an hour long YouTube. And it was such, it was so, I was like, there was more. Yeah. I was talking so much shit to everybody. I ended up deleting it. But so long story short, I made this YouTube video was like an hour long talking so much shit about everybody. Because they was talking, I pretty much like replied to everybody's comment of like them talking shit about me. And I looked at the, I could, for some reason on this YouTube, I could see where the views was coming from. Like if they was like going to YouTube directly and looking it up or if they was going to, because I posted on Facebook, if they was going to Facebook, they clicked the link on Facebook. But then I've seen a weird link I've never seen before. It was called hunt and fish, NC hunt and fish form. And I've never heard of that before. So on YouTube, I've seen that like 7% of the views of that YouTube video was coming from this link. And so, you can, so you can look at that shit. I don't know much about you. Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't know this either until I posted a video and well, I've seen that a lot of views was coming from a link to this form page. While I looked up NC hunt and fish.com and lo and behold, it was, it's kind of like Reddit where it's like a title. It said, it said, young NC deer hunter kills big deer. I clicked on it and it was like 100 comments about me. Just people on this form talking shit about me saying, I'm a trust fun kid, Kelly's big deer. I go out of state every year, Kelly's big deer and say, I kill them in North Carolina. One guy said, like, my spidey senses are tingling because they ain't no way you can kill four, four years in a row, kill big dears like this. And it goes on and on and on and on. And I found this like, all these people grown as men and what, what irks me the most is about this form. You can look it up yourself. I think it's called NC fish and hunt.com. It's like this form and they all hide on these fake names like an anonymous member. Yeah. Yeah. Like hunt and fish. Hunt and fish 39 69 69. Yeah. Yeah. And they hunt, they hide on these names and they talk shit about other people about deer hunting. And that got me the most like that made me so mad. Hard dress. Yeah. So then I made a video on, I got an Instagram page. I got like 9,000 followers and it's called tracking racks outdoors. And I made a video, this funny video is like three minutes long. And I got like a chip on my shoulder. That was the funniest shit ever. I didn't even know who you were. I just knew you killed two big deer. And I saw that and I was like, okay. Okay. Like that is fucking petty. And I love it. Yeah, I'm, dude, I'm so petty. Like I, I went on Amazon and bought a $40 blank check and put like hunting spixes and the money I put like 3.6 million. Because like everybody thinks like I'm a, I'm a rich kid coming from a rich family, killing these deer from like farms and stuff. It's nothing like my dad is a brick mason. He lives paycheck to paycheck. I went to call, I got a four year degree. I was long, short long story short. I got a four year degree. I was going to become a physical therapist. I worked for the Baltimore Ravens for two years. I quit that job to start my own business. Now I got cars now, right? Yeah, I'm an N.C. Diller and a cell cars online. Do really good. Last, for example, the last car I sold was a Mercedes Benz that went to Dubai. And like I do online sales, online auctions. And I kind of do that privately. I got people working for me. So I do that. That's like passive income. And then I got rental properties right now. So I did all this. You built it. You built it. I did this all myself. Yeah. So like when people say trust, you have, so you have money, but it did, it came generically from you. It came genuinely from you. You started it. Yeah. When I see these comments saying like, oh, he's a trust fun kid. He's got money spending $500,000, $50,000 a year on bait or whatever. It cracks me up so much because like, I just, I just run with it. Now everything I ever post, I like sincerely to trust fun kid. Like I just, like I just, you pet him. I love it, dude. I do. I just run with it because like it's so funny because everybody in my hometown knows like this, like I came from nothing and then it's just, it's just so funny. I just, I just run with it. If, if you talk, if you say like, oh, yeah, he's a trust fun kid. Like, yeah, I'm, I'm going to run with it as long as I possibly can. Or if you say, oh, yeah, he, um, so another picture I posted on track and racks. The last picture I think I posted on track racks was I put it in a couch and I said, how do you hunt like me to kill big deer like me? Because everybody says like I'm coyote hunting at night killing these big deer and I photoshopped some night vision goggles on me. It was whole, it was whole, it was this picture right here on my shirt and I had some night vision goggles on me. I got to take a picture of that. Come here, come here, stand up here real quick. I got to take a picture of that because this one's going, this might be the cover photo maybe for, I don't know what I was thinking here. All right, got that, got that. All right, cool. Here's what I love. I love that. Okay, if let's just play devil's advocate. If this shit is all true, I love that you're taking it and running with it. I do believe that it is all true what you're doing. And that's the reason why I wanted you on here to be able to explain all that, right? Because if you make the claim that you're the most, one of the most, I won't say the most hated, but one of the most hated social media deer hunters in North Carolina. I think that's a good way to put it, right? I want to give you that opportunity in the avenue to be able to explain yourself. And here's the way I feel. I mean, some people may not feel this way and some people might disagree with me. If you're willing to be that petty and you're willing to say it, it has to be true. It has to be. And I could be wrong, right? I mean, I just met you, you know, stuff like that. But I love the fact that you take it to heart to be able to just run with it. Yeah, I do. I actually love that because so many people out there in this world, they love to hate. That's what they love to do that. I mean, I said at the Thomas yesterday, people in the South, they loved a bitch. They loved a bitch. They think that we have the hardest when it comes to deer hunting. Deer hunting is deer hunting. I don't care what state you're in. They think that nobody can kill Big Deer in North Carolina or South Carolina or Alabama, Georgia, stuff like that. Well, sequin proved in Georgia that there's absolute gigantic deer there. There's Midwest style deer there, you know, and there's so many people out there that hate on people that kill Big Deer. You're one guy. There's millions of people in North Carolina. You're one guy. And I'll just say it like this. It's kind of like whenever you sit there in your deer hunting and you look on Instagram, you're scrolling through and you see all these people killing Big Deer and you're not seeing shit. So I want to hate on this one guy's opportunity or I want to sit here and comment and say, oh, there's no way that's killing Big Deer, you're seeing this guy's best moment. There's over 8 billion people on the planet and you're looking at maybe 200 people that's having their best moment. And you have two of your best moments last year, right? And you I don't know, I don't know whether to call it luck or the first deer's lucky, right? Because you didn't know you didn't know it was there, right? But you knew about the other deer. You put your time, your money, and here's what I said to Thomas yesterday. People hate on people so much for having money to be able to do it. But as soon as they hit the lottery, what's the first thing I'm gonna do? They're gonna move to Iowa. They're gonna buy a big ass farm. They're gonna pull a Josh Beaumore buy a bunch of farms in Iowa and go start shooting giant deer at Kill 600 200 inch deer. I'm telling you right now, the day I hit the lottery, nobody will know where I'm at ever, ever. And I'm gonna be living on a 10,000 acre farm somewhere and I'm gonna be shooting giant deer. And that's the hate that you get, right? I didn't, I didn't know anything about like that you were getting hate, right? You know, have I heard stories? Obviously. And that's the reason why I'm like, I don't, I don't cast judgment until I sit here with you and get to know you, right? And I'm getting to know you on this platform. That's the cool thing. We've talked for two weeks on messenger. Hey, man, or a couple months on messenger, just a couple messages. Hey, you willing to come to the house? Let's, I want you to be able to air this out. And I think it's good. No. I do think it's good. I think that you're hopefully this platform will change people's opinions. And, but here's what I think. I don't think that you care whether it changes their opinions about you or not. Yeah, I don't, I don't give two shit. I mean, but I think that I think that they should, you know, like even if you hate, like, I'm never going to like this guy. Yeah. Because he's a, he's all right. Well, I'll say it like this. He's a cocky little shit that shoots big deer and I can't shoot big deer, right? He's a cocky little shit. That's, that's what on it. Have you seen that before? I'm just going to, I'm going to say it like that's how it comes across, right? It comes across I'm a cocky little shit. But also you have paved that way to be able to be that way, right? So my favorite song right now. So every deer season, I like put a repeat cocky by Kid Rock. But it's okay. It's okay. It's okay to be cocky. It's like, if people are going to hate on you, what Kid Rock says is if you, I ain't cocky because I got the back shit to back it up. You know what I'm saying? Right. Right. You made your own way. You make damn good money. And the, and the best one was like, I love the chip on the shoulder video with the one I was talking about earlier in the podcast is like, you're standing in front of a truck. And you're like, I don't want people to ask me. I don't know how I kill these big deer. I don't know. Explain that. I can't, honestly, I can't remember the video. It was just like a spur moment. I remember it very well. It says something like, I think I said something about like Beighton in North Carolina. So there's a lot of controversy about like Beighton in North Carolina. There's, there's a lot of guys. So I public public land hunt a lot where you can't bait. Like I hunt know how I hunt out of state a lot. Like every year I hunt in multiple states. This year I got like 20 farms in Kentucky. I'm going hunting Kentucky more than anywhere. I don't even know if I'll be able to hunt North Carolina because I'll be home in Kentucky so much. But unless you kill early, then you'll hunt North Carolina. Yep. Yep. And then, um, but there's a lot of controversy about like Beighton in North Carolina. Like, oh, you're not a real deer hunter if you hunt over a bait pile. So I made a stupid video about like, oh, yeah. Um, I don't know how I killed these big deer in North Carolina, hunt over a bait pile and then like, I, I, like, I walked away. The tailgate was open. It was already, I was open, but you couldn't see what was in it. Yeah. Yeah. You couldn't see what was in the tailgate and it was already open and I walked away from the video and like the whole truck bed of a Toyota Tundra corn just like flew out. Like, I don't know how many pounds like multiple, multiple, multiple times. It was a time it was over a time. Yeah. It had to be over a ton of, of, of cob corn. Yeah. But people, like, so I, I plant corn every year myself. Like I got over like 50 acres I plant. So corn will come, but I like to bait shell too. Like I, I pay a lot of money. I buy tons out of time, pallets out of time of corn. There's this meal that produces, it's a performance meal in Lawsonville, North Carolina that makes trophy buck, which is higher in protein. I love that stuff. It's got peanuts in it, all kinds of good nutrients in it. I use that about pallets of it every single year. I, I bait all that, but I don't know. People give me a hard time. I don't care. Like I, since I killed big deer, people get, give me a hard time. I seen comments saying like, oh, if he was hunting public land, he won't kill deer like that. Bitch, I, I, I got so many big deer on public land. I just don't have the time to go kill him because like I'm hunting so many different states and like all forms at least I spent a lot of money. I spent a lot of time and bait and cameras and all that. I, I, I've killed deer on public land. I wouldn't say I love public land hunting, but if I want to spend all this time and money, why the fuck would I go to chase them? Exactly. On public. Exactly. And there's deer that I've killed. So I've killed a tag down in North Carolina for four years in a row. I've been four years as two, four, six, eight. That's eight years in North Carolina that I've killed. Two of them hasn't been, they was nowhere near bait. I wouldn't even bait at the time. So like I don't, like it ain't about bait and like people get all caught up saying like, Oh, you kill big deer because you bait. It ain't that I'm kill big deer because I'm bait. I killed big deer when I don't bait also. You know, you just, you got to be where big deer are. That is that that is you can't hunt the parking lot of Walmart in the middle of Iowa and expect to kill a booner. Exactly. Yeah. And that's, that's, that's the biggest thing is, is no matter what you do, no matter how you do it, if you went out tomorrow and shot up 170 on public, uh, you killed it with a damn crossbow and you, and, and somebody probably saw that deer and told you exactly where it was, no matter what you do, you're going to catch hate. Yeah. Because now the, now that all this hate that has come upon you over the last few years, no matter what you do anymore. And I've just loved that you run with it. That's, that's what I like. So another thing that I mean, if people don't know who, who I am, I said the last four, I haven't shot a rifle in four years either. So I bow hunt 100% in time. So I, I don't even when, when muzzle odor or rifle comes in, I don't, I carry a bow 100% in time. So that adds a little bit more of like, hate, like, how is he doing it? Because like, I kill big deer every year and I bow hunt every senior year. Like that's for now on, for the rest of my life until I'll stop deer hunting, I'm never going to, every deer I ever kill, what's going, it's going to be with a bow. So you're, you're willing to eat a tag to not shoot when the rifle. 100% I can respect it. 100% me. I'm not going to do that. Yeah. If as soon as that day I can come in with a, with a boom stick in my hand. Honestly, I love bow hunting more than anything in this world. Yeah, I do. I mean, bow hunting is my passion. I mean, I chase him so hard that as soon as I can put a boom stick in my hand. I'm going to chase it like a, there's a couple euro deer there. The one that's standing up the most, that's why I killed that with a bow. But the other three there, I killed the rifle. Just because I also look at it like this, I've got, I've got kids, I'm going to take time away from my family. I don't have much, I don't have the time to hunt like you did. I don't work for myself. I don't have that time. I don't have the resources to be able to do it. So I'm carrying a gun. But if I had every day of deer season where I can hunt, if I wanted to, I'm not saying you hunt every day of deer season, but if I could, all right, those guns would sit there and collect dust. Yeah, that's exactly how I am now. And I mean, I must, I'm 25 years old. I said my life's going to definitely change. It might become time where I only rifle hunt. But like as of right now, I got the way you feel the way everything. Yeah, like I feel like I just look for a challenge because like I got, I always got every year I have big deer on camera that if I kill him, I kill him. If I don't, there's deer on camera that I killed it. There's deer on camera that I have that's bigger than deer I've ever killed before. Like I've had some like 190s on camera that people don't know about. I don't talk about him. I don't post him or nothing like that because I try to keep moving down low. But as of right now, I'm going to bow hunt only. And like, I'm very strict of like what I kill. I let a lot of deer go. Like I let a lot of like 130, like I, there's been times off sitting in a deer stand. I've had like three 130s show up in the same bay pile eating together. It's crazy. I mean, where 99.9% of people that hunt in North Carolina would have ran out of a heiress. Yeah, 100% around an heiress. But you're even as young as you are, you're at a different level because like you said, you can't eat them. If you're not just shooting one just to eat it. Yeah. I mean, so you don't shoot those then obviously. No, I haven't shot a doe. I haven't shot a doe. And seven years probably. That's crazy. But the thing is, I mean, you can't eat them. You got alpha golf syndrome and there's no they say 15 to 20 years before it goes away. But it may never go away. So I can I can commend that. The biggest thing is to me is and it's stuff that I like I said this on the podcast that's going to launch next week with Thomas and you'll be two weeks from now on. People hate on people with money that hunt and that's that's what I'll always go back to. I don't know if you're a millionaire. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Far away from me. Yeah, exactly. But you your priority is killing big deer. You're not married. No, you don't have kids. So if I wasn't married didn't have kids, I would live in a camper with a bad ass truck, a bad ass side of a bad ass but bass boat and all the rest of my money would be toward, hey, I'm going to figure out how I can hunt the most I can. That's what you did. That's like when when bass season comes in, I'm very competitive. So like when I fish a little, I love bass fish. I fish a lot of bass tournaments. Yeah, like every year I get a new bass boat and this year I got a new bass boat and I fish every single tournament I can sign up for in the spring. Because CBC's? Yeah, CBC's. I fish a lot of the CBC's. I fish I fish them all. I love bass fishing. I last year I ran a tournament at the local lake blues Lake North Carolina. I ran Friday night tournaments there from like eight to like 11. I love bass fishing and I get hate bass fishing. Like if I post like that big bass, I'm not like on the private lake somewhere. Yeah, like it's like every like I like on Facebook, I'll post like pictures of me holding a big bass like three times a week and they're like, how the hell are you bass fishing three times a week? I like how you fish like I was actually looking at your Facebook. I like how you fish that tournament and then you go and catch your PB that 10 pounder or whatever. I mean, it's no doubt 10 pounder you can tell. Yeah. And so you're catching hate no matter what you do anymore. Yeah. And I feel like that's everybody. It ain't just me. I know people will get jealous over if if you got a good job, if you got a good house, if you got a good family, if you kill big deaf, if you catch big bass. I mean, people is going to hate no matter what you do. And it like I kill a big deer. But like I said earlier, like I can kill little deer of yours. People still want to hate hate no matter what, like I can kill a little deer if people's going to hate. If I kill a big deer, people's going to hate. It don't matter what you do. Well, I heard this quote a long time ago. If they're not hating, you're not doing something right. Yeah. And that's that holds true. Like I don't kill. I kill a lot of deer and I kill a lot of good deer. I've been very fortunate. I grew up. I don't know if you know this. My dad was viewed as one of the best deer hunters in West North Carolina. If you ever go to his house, he has got a house full. He's got a 21 yard basement with four rows of deer like this right here, just just hanging this. I mean, so like 84 yards of just deer horns everywhere. And a lot of people hate on me because they say, oh, all you do is just you don't kill deer unless it's because of your daddy. And you know what? Yeah, they're right. They're right. And none of these deer would ever be possible if it wasn't for him. I kill a booner this year in Iowa. And it all stemmed from my daddy having a conversation with a guy and then I took that conversation to the next level, right? You put my foot and you just give me the foot in the door. I'll do the rest of the work, right? And and I catch hate for that. Like, oh, you got all this land. Everybody wants to hunt this county called Allegheny County. Everybody wants to hunt this county because it's a little bitty tiny county. It's it's cow pastures everywhere. Some ag a lot of Christmas trees everywhere. So you can drive around and see all the hundred inch eight pointers you want to. It's the land of the the three year old 100 to 110 inch eight pointer. Everybody wants a hunter. Well, that's where I grew up hunting because my dad has had property there for since he was 18 and he's almost 70 now. And so people just say, well, I don't have the same opportunities that you do because I do know I was 15 years old before I killed my first decent bug 103 inch 10 pointer. You know, and I catch that hate because of that, you know, because of what my dad did for me, you know, we did have money. We never at least us my dad has never paid a dime for a piece of property other than the one below the house, never shot a deer on it. And we've had it for nine years. So I don't have the same hate that you get because I don't kill the size of deer here. But I don't even think that it would really matter whether you killed him here or not. Yeah. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? Like, I think that if you were to kill the one deer in Kentucky, one deer know how they'd have been like, I just a six figure bow hunter. And that's all he does. And that's something that people harp on like Kurt, the guy that runs the WCB podcast. They hate on him. It's like, Oh, you're no longer a working class deer hunter. Well, I mean, I'm a working class deer. I work my ass off. You work your ass off. You own your own business. Anybody's ever owned their own business. It's not all sunshine and rainbows. Oh, I was a rally for three hours like yesterday. Yeah. That's terrible. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's no matter what you do, whether you shoot four pointers or boners, you're going to catch hate because you're, Oh, you killed two small deer. No, you killed two bigger deer. So, okay, cleatus. Tell me what I can shoot then. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's, it's social media has, has, I think social media has helped deer hunting in a lot of ways. It really has because you can, I think that the size of the deer are growing across the country because of social media because now like, well, I'm tired of shooting these six boners and eight pointers, these tiny six pointers, 85 inch eight pointers, because I'm not getting likes on Instagram for that. So now I'm going to start waiting to shoot one. I'm not going to hate on you for waiting. But if you tell me, if you shoot a six pointer and say, Oh yeah, you can't, you can't eat the horns. Look at all the meat. Well, there's a, a five year old 180 pound deer is a lot more meat than a two year old 100 pound deer. Yeah. Like I said earlier, like last draw, when I first started tracking racks outdoors, last draw was a big impact in my life, like seeing them grow deer and waiting, letting deer go and how they post it. Like, I think they, they kill deer, call like trash, dash or whatever. And like, once I seen that and like, they put a lot of effort in killing this deer, that really, that really set the tone for me as a trophy hunter to like, let deer go, let them grow. It, it's fun for me. I don't care what you do. Like, I've said this earlier, like, I don't care what you do, what deer you kill or anything. I'm going to do me. And I love the feeling of like having a deer on camera for like four years and then killing them and be like, dang, I really grew, I grew this, it's like livestock. Like I grew this deer and I put the time in it. And like, I was successful, you know, like that's what's, that's what means the most to me. It like the deer I killed that, that deer I never had on camera this past last season. It was super cool killing them and everything. But like, honestly, that, the deer, that, that crazy deer, I had them a lot, I had them on camera last year. It, it meant, it means something to me more if like, I have history with the deer and like, let the deer go and let it grow and, and then feed them and like, see the like, potential, like the impact I put on that deer, it's like, what's like really draws me. I'm going to show you deer. I'm going to take my headphones off. I'm going to show you a deer that means more to me than any deer down here. And it's not even close to the biggest deer is down here. All right. And keep on, hold on one second here. That deer right there. Oh, yeah. That one right there. So we lease this property. It's been, we've leased that property. That's the one I tell you that my dad's on the lease with, right? Yeah. That deer is eight and a half years old. I had that deer from the time that he was a four-pointer. He was a giant four-pointer, by the way. But I had that deer for so long and I finally had an opportunity. Right. I'm going to fit this right here. So I finally, that deer showed up and he was just a straight signal. He was a little bit bigger the year before he didn't have that kicker, a little bit bigger the year before, probably 10 to 15 inches bigger. So he was like 90, 90 couple inches there. He was probably 105 inches the year before, right? That deer shows up I kill him with a rifle. Dude, I cried like a baby when I shot that deer because I knew that deer for six years. I think it was six, I think it was six years I knew that deer four. I killed a 160 or right at a 160 inch nine-pointer. I cried over that deer too because it's my first giant deer. That deer right there, I would trade that 160 upstairs for that deer in a second. That deer don't mean shit to me compared to that one. And so I get what you're saying. Get what you're saying. The deer that shows up, it's great, grand, wonderful. But now that we have cameras, we have all the means to be able to see deer that we've had for years, that's where you grow the respect for them. I think that's what it is to respect. Morning thing. Honestly, I'm in a low right now too, especially for this season. I'm in a little where like... I'm at the point where I don't truly... I don't deer hunt for myself now. I deer hunt for the people that hate on me. Oh, interesting. Yeah, it's terrible. I hate to say that loud, but like... You don't want the congratulations anymore. You want the shit talking. Yeah, yeah. It's terrible to say, but like I go out hunting every single day during deer season. I spend like lots of money on bait and the newest camo or the newest deer stand or the newest scent killer or whatever. I got Ozonics, all that good stuff. And I spend all that money and all that time just to prove to the haters that I'm still gonna kill a deer every year. And I hate to say that loud because I'm in a low right now where I love deer hunting so much back in the day, but now I'm in a pinch right now where I only do it for the people that talk shit about me. Because like I want to prove to them like, "Hey, I'm still killing deer every single year." So this coming up season, I promised myself I was like to make me fall back in love with deer hunting. I'm gonna... I'm not gonna post nothing on Facebook, not break. Like I'll post something on Facebook if it's on my private profile, but I'm not gonna post nothing on the public profiles. I own tracking racks on the Instagram page, but I'm thinking about leaning more towards a subscription base where like you'll have to pay like three dollars a month to see like go to Patreon. Like if you're gonna talk shit about me, you'll have to pay me to talk shit about me. Business, it's all business. So like now I'm to the point where like, it sucks for me like I'm going out there hunting just because people are talking shit about me. Okay. I mean, I can respect that. I'm in a lull right now where like I've killed big deer, I've killed big deer and I've traveled. I went to Oklahoma. I went to Ohio. I'm going to Kentucky this year. I hunt in Virginia every year. I hunt Westford, Jr. every year and it sucks for me because like I'm hunting just because people are talking shit about me and I need to get out of that. I need a guy that wool and I need a hunt because... You'll never get out of it, but Dawson, you'll never get out of it. And I'll tell you what, okay, I'm eight years older than you. I'm 33. I'm not an old guy. And it's a maturity thing. You see what I'm saying? That's not I'm not attacking you for that. I'm just saying like until you can just smile and just say, okay, hey, don't me. That's fine. I don't care. I'm going to still do what I want to do. You're doing that but in a spiteful way, right? Like, you know what? Hate on me all you want. I'm still going to do it. I'm on post if where it stops. Is that screen shotting? The screen shotting people that hate. I mean, I'm just going to and I'm going to try to sound like a big brother here where it stops is screen shotting the people that hate on you and then where it stops it. Like, motherfucker, you talk shit about me, I'm going to lease your land where it stops is like, I'm not even going to pay attention to that. The people that say good job, that's the ones I'm going to screen shot people that say good job. And listen, I'm all for paidness in a way in a way. I'm all for like, if you if you talk shit, you can't you attack me. That's a different story. There's a difference between talking shit and attacking, you know, I'm just, I think that's where you'll start to find happiness again. I could be totally wrong. You know, I really could be. It's first time we've ever met. I know you from what we've we've talked about from, but from I know from my personal standpoint, where you're going, I think you would find the happiness in the deer hunting game again is not screen shotting and take the pettiness out of it. I mean, do you agree? Disagree? Tell me which one I 100% agree. Yeah, like yeah, I mean, it's when when you have kids, when you get married, you have kids, I think is whenever the bigger picture will hit 100% I've been hated on a lot. It's not to the extent of because you kill big deer. It's to the extent of the only reason why you kill deer is because you daddy. Okay, I've got kids now. I don't even care. But dude, ride the train as long as you can, as long as you want to. But at one day, you'll wake up and say, you know what? I'm tired of dealing with this ship because now deer hunting is no longer fun. Yeah, that's to that's kind of like the where you're at now. Yeah, I'm I'm 25. Like, I love you. You're young, dude. I'm young. I love deer hunting. Like, I love it. I love fishing. I love deer hunting about 50/50. But I'm to the point now where like I'm I'm going to Kentucky here in the next like two weeks. By myself, I got 20 farms. I want to spend three days up there by myself. Are you leasing these farms? Yeah, leasing these farms. So you do have a lot of fucking money in this ship. Yeah, like thousands. Like, yeah, like I could buy a house. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. And um, but I mean, but like you have no other responsibilities. I mean, I know you have a business obviously, but you know what I mean? Yeah. That's what you want to spend your money on. But like, I'm going up there in two weeks by like I'm a learner when it comes to deer season. I don't gotten it. I don't really have many friends because long story short, like jealousy got in the way of that. But I'm I'm a learner when it comes to deer hunting and like I do everything by myself. But I'm going out. I'm going to Kentucky in two weeks and I'm going to be putting like probably 50 cellcams out on these Kentucky farms. I'm going to do it by myself for three. It's going to take me like probably three days to go do all this. I'm going to do it by myself. But the only reason I'm doing it is because I want to post that Instagram picture saying like I cut a big buck in Kentucky. Big. So you're spending tens of thousands of dollars. Yep. Between fuel, corn, camera, subscriptions, which I know you're a dealer for wise eye, right? Yep. All right. So you're spending tens of thousands of dollars just to fuel and feed the hater. Feed the hater. That's 100% where I'm at now and I need to get out of that because like it's more about now. All it is about net for me now is like to fuel the hater more than it is to fuel myself. Like I'm getting where I I don't even like deer hunting myself. So you're going to shoot that deer and the only reason why you're going to shoot that deer is for the Instagram post. What I'm going to say. And I'm going to play devil's advocate. That's fucked up. Yeah. That is bad. That sucks. Like I'm not going to take time away from my family for somebody else. Right? Yep. Now, obviously, I don't have the means that you do between the money that you can spend on going to Kentucky and stuff. Okay, I make a lot of money and I have a lot of money. And I spend that. And I think that's why I say ride that train as long as you can or as long as you want to. Because once the priorities change between having a family and things like that, that's where that's where I think that it stops. You went to go to a girl pregnant dude. You're going to have to have a baby man. I want to. Yeah. The thing is, man, like I admire your ability to be able to do it. Am I going to do it? Fuck no. Hell no. But I don't hate on something that I'm not one willing to do or can do. Yeah. I financially can't do that. And I'm just not morally willing to do it. You know, and I honest, that's the reason why people hate because they can't. So the only thing they can do is stay behind a keyboard. Exactly. Right? Stand behind that keyboard. Man, I got, I got so many drafts on my phone. All right. So I got, I got a track and rack. So I got a, I got a, I got a picture on my track and racks page I made is a picture of me holding dear and it's got these keyboard, keyboard warriors in the background. It's like these warriors holding like keyboards like as their shields. Please, please God, send me an edited video. I want to post that like I got the most index. I want that so bad. So I got so many drafts on my phone of like, just talking so much shit, but I'm not trying to be that person. I'm not that person. Like I'm the most humble. I'm the down-to-earth guy as you can. But you are. You are that person. But I am that person. Yeah. Because most people aren't willing to go that far. Yeah. You are that person. Yeah. I go to extra step because like I, it just, it fuels me to like, I wouldn't spend as half as much as I would in deer hunting if it wasn't for the haters. I love my haters. Like it's. So they're getting to you. Yeah. They're one-hundred-seven. So they're doing their job. Yeah. One-hundred-seven. They have done their job. They're making you do it more. But you've done their job. Dude, they're getting to you. I don't know if I would have, the last season I had, I tied out in two weeks of deer season, but I don't know if I would have had that season if it weren't from them. I swear to God. So you had haters beforehand? Yeah. Yeah. I've had haters in the last for four years now. Like. Was it because of the Baltimore and you drove, well, you got down here. Yeah. You killed that. Was it mid-140s, a giant 10-poner with kickers and shit like that? Yeah. So like I lived in Baltimore for two years and I worked for the Baltimore Ravens and I had cell cams at the time. It was reveals. Oh, tied to cams. Tied to cams, yeah. Yeah. I had a bunch of them. Yeah. And I had a bunch of them then. I was having cell cam pictures of giant deer and I drove home like 700 miles and killed these deer and like everybody's like talking shit then. And then every year after that, it's just accumulated of like, where did this shit talking start? I think it started my small town. Like, I'm not saying like, what was the first instance that you got this shit talking? Not this, not like like the origin of it. You don't know what I mean. I think I'm like, I was a nobody killing like this roger or deer and then all of a sudden like, snap my fingers and I started killing big deer and then like, I was a talk of the town like everybody like I went to the dam, the local gas station and people knew who I was. And like, that's I started like everybody like everybody went to high school with all my local friends, so-called friends start talking shit like saying like, oh, I spotlighted it, blah, blah, blah. And that's like the origin of it. And that spread it like wildfire, really. Like rumors spread like wildfire, but it started like that. And then it got more and more advanced on like social media. Like once I started posting, like once I posted the first like in 2020, I posted them deer and people was like, congratulate me and everything. But in 2021, I posted two more big deer in North Carolina and people was like, okay, you know, like he's killed four big deer now in North Carolina. And in 2022, I'm like six deer deep. And they're like, Oh, 2023, you killed two beginners. Yeah, and in 2023, I killed two beginners and it's just added and added added. Do you want? And this may be a tough question to answer. And it may be fucked up me asking it, but I'm going to ask it because I think that you can handle it. Does it suck to hunt by yourself like that? Yeah, I mean, when I kill a deer, I track it by myself, load it by I load it on my folder by myself. Like I stand up on my like rear racks and like pull that song bitch up all the way. I've seen those power lifting videos. You can squat. Yeah, you could squat. I know. And like I do, I do everything one on one by myself, bait by myself, hunt by myself. It's 100%. So it's because like, I wish I had like a group of like five guys that like love deer hunting. That's why he started tracking racks. Yeah. And I wish I had that like, that family to do stuff with like, I'm going to Kentucky in two weeks. I got to do everything about myself. Like I'm to the point where like, I'm going to pay somebody $20 an hour to go like with me to like go bait and stuff. Yeah. Because like, it sucks doing that shit by yourself. And can I ask you this? Is it something that you created? Or do you think that somebody else created? I think, I think long story short, I think that when I started tracking racks, I had like a group of friends that like I would do stuff with. And jealousy like took over once I started killing big deer. How do you think that the jealousy took over? I went from being nobody to start killing big deer and just people got jealous. I mean, I mean, they didn't have the means that you had. Yeah. Yeah. Simple as that. And then like, because I mean, it may not, it's just skin deep like that, man. Some people just don't have the same means. So they're going to hate for it. Yeah. And I do everything about what I fish by, like I fish tournaments. I fish to CBC, like big ass tournaments. So it's the largest team tournament in North Carolina. I fish it by myself. No shit. Hell, I'll jump in the boat with you one day. I swear. I know how to fish. I fish the CBC by myself. I fish all tournaments by myself. And I've won, I've won a lot of money. Like I've won, I've fished at Smith and Lake, I won $1,000 this past spring. I fished all the team tournaments by myself, because like, I'm big time longer, because like, just people get jealous of me of my lifestyle. Like even like my close friends, they weren't like 40 hours a week, 60 hours a week or whatever. Let me ask you this, right? And this is a shitty question. I asked my last anyway. Do you create that? Do you, do you feel honestly that you create an avenue to where if, if I kind of like, don't agree with him, that he's just going to be petty? I mean, I guess so. Do you see what I'm saying? Like, I mean, like, like, seriously, like it's, it's a, it's an avenue of like, Hey, I want that. I want these people here and go hunt with me and stuff like that. But do you think like the haters have got so involved in your life that you're more focused on that than you are focused on, you know what? I just want to camaraderie or camaraderie of deer hunting. Do you see what I'm saying? Do you understand what I'm asking? Yeah, yeah. Um, I think, I think, I honestly think that like, the haters has like, fucking like my friend, like my hometown friends has become involved in like the hater group, like where they like, they think that there's no way possible, like I can kill big deer every year or whatever. And they, they're the one that's, they're, they're the one that's spreading rumors. They're the ones that started it. There's a one that's starting at 100%. And I mean, it sucks, but whatever, like, you know something? I'm going to tell you something. I have loved. I got some flack, honestly, for having you on. I have loved having you on. It's probably been my favorite episode that I have done yet. And the main reason why I say that is because I think that there's a persona. I think there's a front that you put on for social media. There's a front that you put on for social media that you absolutely love the hate, but I think you hate it. Yeah, I do. I think that you hate the hate so much because you are genuinely just trying to show people, Hey, there are big deer in North Carolina. If you need help, I'm there. I just, I want that. I want people to be successful. Yeah, because I'm not going to allow to do that. I did a lot of research on you. I did. I don't cast stones. I'm a biblical man. I don't judge people. That's why it's so awesome. We have in a podcast because I can ask these questions. Some of them suck. Some of the questions I ask are suck. They do. They suck. But I also want to get to the bottom of things. And I want people to know who you actually are. I think that you hate the hate, but I think that honestly it fuels you so much that it's made you successful. And like I said earlier, if it wasn't for the hate, would you be where you are today? No, one zero. I wouldn't kill it. The last three years, I'll probably wouldn't have tied out North Carolina if it weren't for the hate. Yeah, it's so so do you do you diminish the hate or do you do you fit onto it? Like not keep hating on me so I can keep killing big deer. Yeah, like I really don't know what like so this season is going to be like this season is going to be like the the breaking point for me to make it or break it. Yeah, make it break inside. I'm not going. I'm not. I promised myself I'm not going to post anything on Facebook groups, anything like I'm not going to brag whatsoever this season. I'm doing it for myself. I know I got haters. I mean, I'm I probably will always have haters because like I killed big deer and people's like there's no people. Yeah, people do people hate on me and I shoot once more. Yeah, they hit out. You're always going to have it. I'm always going to have haters. But like this year, I'm not going to like brag whatsoever. Like I'm going to post on social on the postal trigger racks. I'll make a subscription base where they have to pay to see the picture I even post. And like, I mean, you know something. I'm going to I'm going to call you out on that. I think you should. Yeah. And here's here's where you'll grow. Here's the here's the next step of a man for you. Post it, but don't retaliate. Yeah. Yeah. The retaliation because I used to be the same way you were. Yeah. I mean, that was I'm not an old guy. I think it's the post it and don't worry about what happens. Right. Because I'm going to show off my 110 inch deer that I cried over. I'm going to show off this 100 inch six pointer with a kicker on it and I cry over. I don't care what people say about me. I don't. And I think that's where maybe you grow to the next step is not the retaliation part. Dude, I want to see you posting those fucking public groups. I want to see you say, look what I did. That's what they're for. Yeah. The difference I think is is the retaliation part. Right. If you take that out of it, I guarantee you this. Your happiness will start to go come back into it again. And then the the camaraderie, the the hunting buddies and stuff like that and all that stuff. Dude, I went by myself 99% of the time. I got a buddy I go on trips with. We have a lease together, but dude, he's got three kids. So we don't we don't like hunt together all time. We used to go together every single weekend. Now it's once a year. So I'm I'm hunting by myself a lot. I get it. I think where you grow from here is the retaliation part. Post it and then don't screenshot. What do you think about that? I agree. I mean, yeah, I need I need to get out of my I need to get out of that like pettiness. I feel like I feel like yeah, 100% I'd be happier. Like like I said, like deer season has like really been like towards haters more than anything. Like I feel like this season right now, let's go like really tell me where I'm at. Like last season, I was all for like, Oh, I'm hunting because of these people are talking shit. But like this year, I'm going to like do it for myself and see where I'm at. I've been I've been a very a big role right now. Like where I like I really don't enjoy hunting anymore. I'm only doing it because like people are talking shit alone. You look you you you hope you kill a deer so you can retaliate 100 100% and I got to get out of that because like I love deer hunting. I'm going to do it for like the rest of your life. The rest of my life. Yeah, I got to get out of that like screenshot and people are talking shit about me. I just got like a newer everybody talking shit about me. Yeah. Hey dude, like I said, I love when you post the pictures because dude, I want to see big deer that got killed and I'm going to tell you something right now 99% of people want to see you post that picture because they want to see like all right he's killed big deer before. Let's see if he can do it again. That's I think that's a huge thing for you like what because it's huge for me like, I do I have a reputation I kill big deer for where I live and between out of state and I don't want to let people down. I think that I'll do it honestly if you just didn't screenshot and retaliate. I think it's literally that little bit. I know. I think that would set it completely apart. Like dude, you have what you have done is what everybody dreams to do. Like we all wish that we had the financial freedom and the freedom from work to be able to go and hunt and go and just do what we want to and then we shoot big deer. Like you're killing deer, I'm not just going to say in North Carolina because you've killed some giants out of state too. You've killed some absolute giants out of state. Like what you have done is the reason why you have hate. No matter what, no matter what happens between now and the rest of your life, there's always going to be somebody there to hate. There's always going to be that. Me, dude, I catch fucking it. For what I shoot, you see what's in my house. This is what I shoot. All right. And it's I think for you, it's dude post it, man post it. Let it let it happen, man. And because you're a social media influencer, you're an influencer now. I guarantee you this out of all the hate you've ever got. You have got just as much love. I guarantee you, you've got just as much love and you're just blind to it. Yeah, I think you're blind to it. And I think that you have probably influenced a lot of people to do better and to not shoot small deer. That's what we are as hunters, right? That's our due diligence to people out there in the world is to show people whether it's show people happiness. And the haters have took the happiness out of deer hunting for you. 100% and I really think, dude, for you, your happiness is killing giants. Giants, it's not big, it's giants. You live in the area of if you're going to live in the south, if you're going to live in North Carolina, you live in the area to wear giants for the south grow. Focus on that, man. Hold on to that. Hold on to the, man, what I do, what I can do, my avenues, my resources can get me there. Don't worry about what other people think, man. And I promise you, I promise you, you'll shoot 125 inch deer, 120 inch deer, and you'll be just as happy as you were with those banners that you killed last year. That's what I want to do a bit. I want to be to that point where I can go hunt. I for a deer, I'm happy about and be happy about it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I don't care what other people say. Yeah. But right now, it's like what everybody says. Yeah. Dude, hey, run with it, man. Run with it. That's where you have built a platform now. You've got T-shirts made from it. I want one of those T-shirts. Is that the only T-shirt you have? Please make another one in the extra large because I'm a fat fuck. Please make one in the extra large and I want to wear that. I swear I will wear that with a, and I will high hat people with it on. I will and run with it, man, while you can because it's going to build you a platform because people hate on sequin gas. Dude, and I applaud because my uncle lives in Buckhead in Atlanta, Georgia. They knocked on his door. They got permission or they didn't get permission from my uncle. My uncle told him no. I beg my uncle to hunt there. Dude, he's got giants in the backyard. I get freaking videos of it. But they will hate. People will hate on anything, man. You've made a platform from it. Run with it as long as you can. But whenever you can find that avenue to wear it like, you know what? That's no longer fueling this. I can go and do this. And do you think that you could shoot a deer, a big deer, and not post it on social media? I want to get to that point where by like right now, probably not. Okay, okay, because that's what so who's to say it's wrong? All right, we're going to take a piss break real quick. Sorry guys, we had to take a little bit of a piss break there. I mean, we was getting a little bit too emotional. We had to go outside and take a quick piss break. But dude, like seriously, I, I really think that what you're doing, I think it's setting a standard. I think that for as young as you are, if you're willing to hold out, whether or not you have alpha golf syndrome or you can't eat red meat or not, it shows if you're willing to start a business, make the money, do all that, have this money to do it. Because I don't care if anybody says, it takes money to kill Big Deer. I don't care what state you're in. It takes money to kill Big Deer. But most people aren't willing to do what you're doing. I mean, and honestly like going on the money thing, like even if you don't have money, I feel like you, I put so much time, like right now it's, I put like three months before season starts, I put so much time into deer hunting. Like I dedicate that as my lifestyle. Like everything I do in my life goes towards deer hunting. Like everything I think about, everything I do, I put so hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours into deer hunting, I try to find where to bedding or I try to find like where the food source or like I do hunt over bait piles, but like there are some places like, but your strategic about it. Yeah. You're not stupid. Yeah. Obviously you can't be stupid shooting deer that you are. Yeah. And I mean, I know this is not like a tips and tactic podcast. Run with them. I don't care. I feel like I try to do every single thing to give me the like edge to hunt a big deer. I mean, I know like I'm in the law right now, where like I, I hunt just because like what haters say or what, whatnot. But like, I feel like I put like the effort into like killing big deer. Like you got to be, to kill big deer every single year, like you can get lucky and kill a big deer anywhere in the country, but like you got to kill deer consistently, you got to be where big deer or you got to feed the deer, you got to like grow the deer, you got to let deer grow. And I feel like I do every single thing every single year to like become successful and people just don't see that like on social media, like I post a big buck on camera and they're like, Oh, well, he, he killed my deer this year, but like they don't see not, they don't see 90% of the, what the effort and time and money that goes into it. And it's just, that's why I don't like about, that's why I don't like about social media, but yeah. Yeah, I get it. They never will see it either. No. Yeah. And as soon as you can prove those haters wrong, you'll still have more that show up. Yeah, 100%. And I got to get out of this wall where like I only like right now, 100% truthfully, I only hunt because of like what people should talk in on Facebook or Instagram or whatever. Like that's the only reason like I strive to like do better every single season. But I got to go out of that because like it's become more. Okay. It's my, I might retract what I say. Should you really stop? I mean, it's kind of like the guy that they say, you'll never make it in the industry. Like they tell the janitor you'll never be a CEO. Yeah. I'm not saying that you're the janitor, but it's just kind of like, but it just fuels that fire, man. What is Jocko willing saying? Like, oh, you'll never kill that big deer. Good. Watch me do it. Like you'll never be this person good. Oh, you're going to like it's going to suck. Good. I want that suck. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I hate the hate on social media, but like I love it at the same time because like, that's what like drives me to do it. It makes me not enjoy it as like on a personal level because like I try to like like prove the haters wrong kind of deal. But like honestly, like if it if it wasn't for y'all that that hated on me every single season that like, I don't I don't even know if like I would kill the half the deer that I would because you wouldn't care. I wouldn't care. Yeah. Like I would go kill like a 130 inch, which is big for me. That's a giant for me. I'm gonna go to in North Carolina in my life. Like, but I understand what you're saying when you have that this caliber deer. Yeah. You have you have 140s and 150s, 160s, 170s on camera. You wouldn't care if it was a fucking four-pointer. Yeah. If that's what made your heart thump, you know, well, dude, I like, I will say this after getting to know you on the podcast and seeing you since September of last year, I gained a hell of a respect for you. There's a respect for you that I have that I don't think that most people can understand to have. In my in my opinion, I think you're doing what people have strive to do their whole entire life. You're killing big deer. You're going, you're able to go out of state, but people don't see the back end of how hard you were to be able to either afford it or what you sacrifice. I don't think they see your sacrifice. No, I mean, yeah, I mean, like I said, like earlier, I spent like three hours in Raleigh, like just the other day doing like my dealer stuff and stuff. But I mean, my main goal in life, I set myself up like once I like, I went to school and become a physical therapist or whatnot. But I told myself like, I don't want to work for somebody else. And I set my life up where like, I want to have passive income where like, I can do what I want to do and have passive income where I don't have to worry about like clocking in. And that takes a lot of work. Like people don't realize like how much time and effort it does to have passive income. And like, I finally set myself up in the last like probably three years to like where I have passive income where like, I can do really what I want to do. And like, I wish that for everybody. I know that like, I'm not talking shit about people that are clocking in. Yeah, I mean, I clock in. Yeah, like, I know, I know people that I know what you're saying. Yeah. So like, you're willing to take the sacrifice, you're willing to make your take, you're willing to make the sacrifice. Yeah, I feel like I love hunting and fishing so much that like I said, I told myself like, I'm going to make my career around hunting and fishing. Like, I'm going to either I'm going to work for somebody and I'm going to hunt fish and like, have a lot of time off, or I'm going to work for myself, have passive income. And then hunting fish is when I want to. And I chose that route like having like all of my own business and what and I feel like, you know, like, you got to have money. Like, I'm not bragging. Like, I don't have money. Like, some people do, but like, I have enough money where I can hunt on my own, I hunt outstate every year. And you have you have the money that where it's not an option. It's not like a hindrance. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where everybody wants to be, man. Yeah. That's why they're hating because you're 25 and you have that. Yeah. They're 60 and they don't. They have to their wife dictates. How much they get to hunt? Yeah. And like, you're 25 and you have that. I've never hunted in Kentucky in my entire life. And this past season, I got hooked up with a guy. I got like, over 15 farms, I think 20 farms, honestly, I'm going home. Speed transparent. How much money if you want, if you want people to understand who you are, how much money are you spending on your Kentucky farms? Kentucky farms alone. Well, this is the very first year time. If you talk about like gas, bait and everything, like probably over 50,000. But like, if you talk about like, all the forms, at least I got, at least forms in, uh, Ohio, Oklahoma, Virginia, North Carolina, like at least form in North Carolina, like a lot of forms in North Carolina, actually, I spend like, I mean, $100,000, like nothing towards deer hunting to me. Okay. Which is crazy. Like $100,000 is a lot of money. Fuck yeah. I mean, I make like close to 150 years is what I make. Yeah. And you're spending that on hunting, but in your 25, in your 25, right? There's your hate that. There's the core of the hate because you're so young and you have, here's what people don't understand though. You made those means for yourself. You made that. And I spent like, people don't realize either. Like I spend. Do you have a million dollar mansion on a lake somewhere? No, no, not at all. You do you have 150,000 or truck? Not at all. No. I drive like a 2006 Toyota. Yeah, he had this thing on two wheels pulling in my driveway. Yeah. I drive like my main driver is a Toyota, a 1999 Toyota Camry. That's my main driver. Like, it's got like 300,000 miles on me. Like, I spend every dime I have on like hunting or fishing, like, I don't care. Like, I'm not, I could 100% afford a Maserati if I wanted to, but like, I spend all that money towards deer hunting. But there's a lot of, like, that's my priority, but a lot of people, that's not their priority. They don't see that. Yeah. They don't see that about you. And that's what I love about this is, is really getting to know you. Like, they don't, they don't see the fact that you're willing to sacrifice on your personal life, for the deer that you're trying to kill. Yep. And I like, and another people's like, oh, he killed, like, I hate the excuse. Like, oh, he killed that deer in Ohio and bringing North Carolina and tied to me. And like, I've heard that like a thousand times this past season went to deer I killed this year. They're like, oh, he killed that out of state. There's no way that's a North Carolina deer. I pay for North, I pay for Ohio license. I pay for Oklahoma license. I pay for Virginia license. Why would I pay for out of state license and tag a deer in North Carolina when I already paid for the out of state license? Like, if I killed a big deer in Ohio, I would tag it in Ohio. Like, I wouldn't like take it across county state lines. You're proud of the Ohio license. You spent $258 on it. Yeah. Yeah. You're proud of that, man. I don't understand like why, like, I don't understand like why people are like, saying I killed deer out state or whatever, but I don't know. It's crazy. And I don't, I don't want a crossbow people. Like, I've heard things like, oh, he owns a crossbow and has a night vision scope on his crossbow. I don't even own a crossbow. How much skill that would take to kill a deer after dark with a with a crossbow night vision scope. I know, like, don't take so much skill. People just don't. I don't even know where they come up with the stuff. I mean, it's crazy. Yeah. But I feel like, I feel like you, you got to, you got to spend money to kill big deer. I mean, I feel like money is a big priority. I hate to say it, but like, money is a big priority to kill big deer every single year. Like they consistent. Big consistent. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. And also, like, you got to be in the, like, I could have money and live in Boone, North Carolina and not kill big deer every year. Because like a Boone, North Carolina, they ain't big deer. That's where I hunt mostly. Yeah. What are you trying to say? You say, I'm like, they're a little, those two deer right there. So I decided to kill in Boone, North Carolina. Yeah. I say 108 and 111 inch deer. But I mean, yeah, I know what you're saying. You know, like, if you're like Wake County, Rockingham, like, I feel like Rockingham County is like the biggest county in North Carolina that has big deer every year. St. Rockingham? I think Rockingham is like that. See, I think Wake used to be. Yeah. Wake used to be one. Granville used to be the number one. Then it was person, then Wake, Rockingham. I think Rockingham now, if you look at the record books, I think I did this on my own time, like, a couple months back, I looked at all the record books like of the biggest deer ever killed with a month of later, biggest deer ever killed with a bow. The number two deer came from Ash County for, yeah, I know Will Price. That's, that's my property now. That's where I hunt. And I think when they were over 135 on that property in 10 years. I think if you look at all the North Carolina record books right now, for like, NC, whatever, I think Rockingham County has the most records. I honestly believe if you got any land in Rockingham County, one acre to 500 acres, you got a good chance of killing a 160 every year. Yeah. I think that's Rockingham County. I don't know what about Rockingham County, but it's like, it's, it's good, good. Yeah, it's real good. I, dude, I have, I've been trying, I know another guy that's got some, he killed a 153 inch eight-pointer there, which is, I don't care what state you're in, 150 inch eight-pointers a mega. Yeah. Like, I have been trying to find property down east, all my properties in the mountains. Honestly, I'm, I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm trying to climb in these fucking mountains. I don't know how you do it. Like, I, I hunt. You see how, listen, you're a stud, like being in shape. You see me, I'm 225 pounds of solid beer, gut, and cock. You know, that's all I am. But no, seriously, like, I, I'm so tired of walking these huge mountains for a huge for me, big mountains for 110 inch, dude. I want to go walk some flatlands for a 130, yep. You know, and that's, that's, that's down there, which I know there's some mountains as you get, well, northern Rockingham County. There are some mountains there, you know, like you get close to the Virginia line and everything like that, which, did you live in Virginia for a little while? I lived in Virginia for, yeah, a year. I got you. Yep. You just missed home. Yep. Did you grow up in Stokes County? I grew up in Stokes County. Born and raised in Stokes County, yeah. Born and raised like I was born in San Antonio, North Carolina, and then I moved to Danbury and then I moved off the Dambler River and stuff like that all around there. Yep. And then I went to college, which was in like Charlotte area, and then I moved to Baltimore, now I moved to Roanoke, Virginia, now I'm back in North Carolina. So, yeah, I mean, I've, I've experienced everywhere, like I've hunted out of state and everything, but like, there's, there's two places in North, there's two places in the whole United States where I think that you can kill up one six years deer. Rockingham County, North Carolina, one hundred percent and kill a one six years deer. You're sitting in the south? Yep. In the south, you mean? Yeah, anywhere. I mean, like, I probably like, I won stuff like that too, but like, Rockingham, North Carolina, if you're in North Carolina, you can kill one six years deer every single year. One hundred, I got pictures of one six years deer every single year on camera, so I know other people do too, because like, I'm not the only guy. So like, one six years deer and Rockingham County, North Carolina. And also, if you live on the coastal, like, South Hampton, Virginia. Yeah. So we're just, let's just talk about the south of that. That's what we mean by the, like, South Hampton County, North Carolina. That's, that's where they are in South Virginia. That's where they run dogs a lot. Yep, they run dogs a lot there and that you can kill, if we're, if we're talking about South, because I can name you seven counties in the Midwest, that would absolutely trump these two counties. But I know what you're saying. Yeah. Like, if you live in the south, South Hampton, I've heard of South Hampton, Virginia. And that's where, I mean, that was a non-pointer. I think it just showed on, on some Virginia whitetails, Facebook page, some guy, it was a nine-pointer, it was like 173. Yeah. Is this, like, the deer's 145 pounds. Yeah. And it just looks, it looks completely in proportion. It does not look proportionate to the body. I hunted a peanut form in South Hampton. He had, he owned 5,000 acres. His name's Pope, Pope Peanuts or whatever. They're, like, they're in Walmart or whatever. Like, he owns a big, big peanut form. And, um, he has 5,000 acres in South Hampton, Virginia. They don't allow dog hunting or whatever. I went up there and hunted. I seen, I seen 20 bucks that would square 150, probably. But I didn't kill no, I didn't go back in the fields out in the fields with grazing around. Yeah. Crazy. Like, South Hampton, South Hampton, Virginia, I think is like, just as good as, like, Athens, Ohio. Yeah. Like, crazy. Like, I've seen giants. Like, Jackson County, Ohio. You're saying, yeah. Yeah. But, like, okay, Dawson, we'll just say this, and we're going to wrap this up here shortly. How many boomers have you killed? Two, for sure. Two for sure last year, but probably like, probably three. Three, okay. All of these out of the South, we're taking the Midwest, Ohio, anything out of it. How many of you ever, 130, have you killed in the South? For four years in a row every year, every year, every year. Since 2020, since COVID year, I've killed 125 plus. So gross, Pope and younger, bigger. Yeah. All with the boat. All with the boat. All with the boat. All with the boat. Mounted. That is very impressive. I don't care where you are in the United States. You kill eight, gross, Pope and young deer. I don't care if you live in Iowa, or Ohio, or Kentucky, or Illinois, or Kansas, or Minnesota, Wisconsin, whatever. You've killed eight, gross, Pope and young deer, in the last four years, from 22 years old to 25, or 21 years old to 25. Also, I tag out in North Carolina, but also I kill at least one buck out of state. So I kill like an 11-pointer in Oklahoma. I kill eight-pointer in Ohio. I've killed 10-pointer in Virginia. I always, I tag out in North Carolina, but then I start hunting out of state too. So like I always kill big deer out of state also. Yeah. Yeah. All right, Dawson, before we wrap this up, is there any controversy that you want to debunk? Is there anything that you are passionate about that you want to go over? I mean, we've got 10 to 15 minutes here that we can kill if we want to we can end it now, or we can go over stuff. I feel like there's a missing piece. I really do. And I think that I would love to cover it if you're willing to unveil it. Just do it. I mean, I feel like so many, so many people don't know me as a person. Like I'm the nicest guy you can possibly me. Like if I just met you, like I'll let you hunt on my land. If you kill like, like I will, I will set you up to kill a 150 inch deer on my land 100%. My, my sister has a boyfriend, Wylen. I was shout out to Wylen. I didn't know him much until this year, but like this, this upcoming season, like I'm going to get him like a 130 plus, you know, like a peppy young plus. Like I'm that type of guy. Like I don't, I'm not holding all the deer to myself. Like, like I'll let you kill anything on my land. I'm very fortunate enough. I own the long, I own the land and a lease of a lot of land. I'll stay in state. It don't matter. And, um, and I'll let you kill whatever it's on my land. I'm a nice person you ever meet, but I'm the best person you ever meet. So if you talk shit about me online, then you know, I got to be prepared. I got your number. I know where you hunt. I'm safe. If you lose that land next year, does know that I probably at least it from you. Don't be a keyboard or otherwise, you might face the consequences. Yeah, exactly. And, um, yeah, I mean, I'm, there's a lot of rumors going around like I've killed four. I've tied out in North Carolina four years ago. I've killed 130 inch bucks four years ago, or bigger, or bigger. Yeah, 30 plus every year. And I'm not trying to brag about that or not. Man, fucking brag about it, man. That's okay. I like about it, man. It's no longer luck anymore. So you can brag. I spent the money and time on it that like, I feel like 99% of people in North Carolina don't spend the money or time in it. And, um, and like, I don't know. I mean, I just feel like people will like get this persona about me like saying, Oh, he goes big deer every year. How's he do it? He rides the roads or whatever. I've never killed a deer under a spotlight in my entire life. And I put so much work into it. People don't see the amount of work. They only see the picture of the deer, but they never see like the back, the months and months and months and months and the money and the time it goes into like, actually killing these deer. And that's what that's what sucks about social media is like, I'll post a big deer, but like, then you'll talk shit around the the picture, but you don't really know of like how much time and effort I put into the the actual deer itself and like how much history I have with the deer. And I wish people just like grow up and realize like, you know, like, it's possible to kill big deer every year in North Carolina. I mean, North Carolina's not like, I feel like North Carolina is the sleeper state of the century of the century. Yeah, 100%. Like, that was a 201 inch deer killed this in velvet. Yeah, a meat like open and day. They got it. So they got it scored my deer, but master like not payment and not booting product. I look like you're the best. So but master. So I score my deer, the tip, the non-typical deer score 174 and four, eight, some odd idea. Yeah. He scored. He was the one that scored that 201 inch deer. And he told me, dude, he's like, your deer is so much better than this typical deer that took that 200 way. Like before I scored, I was like, it was solid velvet. Yeah, I was like, what do you think this deer was score? He's like, this deer is going to score every 200. But it was a non-typical, crazy deer. And um, but it ended up scoring like 174 or whatever. But he's the same. The same guy that scored at 201 inch deer scored my 174 inch non-typical. And um, there's big deer every year that gets killed in North Carolina. And you just got to put the time and effort in it. You got to have the money. You got to have the, I think, I think if you got the time more than you did the money. Yeah, I agree with that. 100%. You kill a boner in West North Carolina. Yeah. Every few years, if you're willing to put the time in, and I don't think you would do it on private. You'd have to be on public. Yeah. That's where I'm going to say something that it's going to be very like frowned upon. I think that you would have a better chance in West from North Carolina killing a boner on public than you ever would on private. Yeah. Because if the landlord knows that you have a deer that big, he's going to shoot if he sees it. I think so 100%. And like, so like I've been hunting public land for about four years though. Public land has gone to shit. Yeah. Hunting public. It's terrible. Yeah. It's just a fad. Like it'll go away. Like I really do. I think that we're toward the end of that. Yeah. I think more people's trying to make more money so they can lease land because they got tired shooting 120s on public and in the Midwest. North Carolina has become a sleeper state because obviously there's boners getting killed every year. I remember growing up and my dad was like, yeah, this guy killed a 170 inch deer in Wake County, North Carolina. I don't believe it. And now it's like, oh yeah, he killed it. Oh, he killed a boner. Yeah, it's probably in Wake County. It was down toward Raleigh, Mecklenburg County, something like that. Like the center part of North Carolina. We have giants in this county. There are giants. The problem is is now people are starting to realize it and it's going to take a lot of money to consistently. Like you can get lucky. I could be that guy that owns a three acre parcel next to your 380 acres that deer just chases a dough by me and I shoot it. But like the south, the southern hunting has become, it's been put more on the map because there's a lot more people killing big deer now. And I think social media has brought that to light. It's not all about the Midwest anymore. Us rednecks can kill some big deer too. We can kill some big deer too. And you send us to the Midwest. We can kill even bigger deer, you know. But Dawson, did you been awesome? Man, I have, I have really enjoyed this. It was probably my favorite podcast I've done. I think there was some, do you think that there was some questions that were answered? I think so. I think people, I think people get a persona about my name. Like when they see Dawson during on social media, they think, oh, it's like, it's that young kid. That cocky little fuck that that kills big deer every year. Yeah. And that's, that's not me. Like I don't give a, I don't give a fuck what you kill. I'm, I'm just type of guy like, I don't give a shit what you kill every year. I'm going to congratulate you. I'm going to pat you on the back. I'll give you a shirt off my back if you kill like a 110 or a 100 year, a spike. I don't, I don't care. That's, that's not me. I don't judge people. I'm a trophy hunter myself, but I don't judge anybody. If you like, if you got that mentality, if it's Brown or Dion, that that's just not me. And social media is killed. I feel like social media has helped deer hunting, but I feel like it's killed deer hunting as, as like the guys that kill like a 14 year old kill a deer with his dad for first deer, his first deer, like, you know, like social media has killed that because like you can't be like, under, if you look under comments on Facebook, it's like, you should let that grow, you should let it go, whatever like that. Like I hate that. I think social media has helped deer hunting. I think he has hurt the deer hunt her. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. That's, that's where I think that we're at in this day and age with social media. It's, it's a, it's an avenue to express feelings that you have. And I think that honestly, the hate is genuine. Yeah. But people hate on things that they don't know. Yeah. And then like, like I killed, I killed two big deer in North Carolina last year, last season. And once I killed that second deer in North Carolina, that non-typical, I had 15 magazines reach out to me, like 20 podcasts. I, I try to keep under spot. Like I don't, like, you don't want to be in the limelight. Yeah. Yeah. And like, I did a couple of stories. Um, I forgot what magazine like Northern American magazine, whatever. And like, you know, Carolina sportsman did a thing on it. Yeah. And you can look it up. It's like, NC, NC Hunter, kill a big buck. Coyote hunting. They twist your words around. Fake news, man. It's crazy. It's fake news. It's crazy. I mean, they twist your words around. Like, I was not Coyote hunting when I killed the big deer. I mean, y'all've heard the story prior to what I said, like, you know, like it was predators on my camera and everything. But like, they twist your words around and it makes the story just go with it. And like everybody, everybody in the country thinks like, oh, I was Coyote hunting. I killed him big deer or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it just goes on and on and on and on and on. So, yeah. Well, dude, like, I really appreciate, like, I have enjoyed this conversation as much as I've had any other. I enjoy the perspective that you gave me. I enjoy your honesty. Honestly, like, you're, you're not ashamed to say that, like, I spend tens of thousands of dollars to kill big deer. No, like, like, like, that's, so, that's where I think the biggest misconception is, is like, most people think like, oh, he, he's not a deer hunter unless he just knocks on that door, just gets walk in permission and I go kill his big deer. I enjoy that you're not afraid to say how you killed those big deer. You killed both up. Well, the first one I know that you didn't know about it and it just showed up and you killed the big deer. And then the second one, I had this deer on a fucking bait pile from the open of that deer season, whatever. I knew about that deer. Thank you for that honesty. That's what I wanted. And that's what I wanted to portray. I'm sorry if I ask questions that made you feel uncomfortable or anything like that, but dude, like, I want people to know the real Dawson Durham. I want people to know that, like, you're not afraid to answer those questions. Like, really, I don't think that you ever have been afraid. I just don't think that anybody's willing to ask the questions. Me, I'm not scared to ask them. Yeah. And I really appreciate you making the drive coming down here to let me ask these questions and to be able to put it out there for the people. I mean, I don't know how many people are going to listen to this and I really frankly don't care. But the people that truly care about you or whether they're hydras or lovers, they're going to listen to this and they're going to get to know the real Dawson Durham. Yeah. Do you think that you have accomplished that today? No, I think so. Yeah. Do you have anything else you want to say before we close this out? Does spread love not hate? I mean, I mean, I take it to heart. If you hate on my shit, I take it to heart. Like I said earlier, I'll screenshot your shit. I'll find out where you're hunting. I'll lease your shit. Okay. Okay. This is how I am, but I mean, be careful what you say to me. Be careful what you say because I'm very fortunate enough where I can hunt where I want to, but there's a lot of guys out there along Facebook that killed their big deer. That's like 110. They take a picture where they die. It's like an eight-pointer or whatever. That you take more pride in than the 170. Yeah, 100%. Be careful what you say off social media. I hate that like y'all hiding their fake names and talk shit about other people. Just be careful what you say. Because there's a lot more Dawson Durham's out there that's willing to do it too. Yeah. Yeah. There's probably people that are more well off that do it more than you do. Yeah. I clash back and people don't, people's not used to that. So when I clash back, I want that video like I talked about this guy named. Tell us how to find that video, by the way, because I want people to see the chip on the shoulder and the and the bait and video. Those are my two favorite videos. I've seen a bunch of them, but those are my two favorites. It's on track and racks outdoors on Instagram. I deleted it. I used to have a Instagram everything, but I deleted it. I try to not stay under the spotlight as much as possible because the less attention on me, the less hate you get. Because you hate it. Yeah. Even though you feed off. I love it. I love it, but I hate it at the same time. You've never loved it. You just feed off of it. Yeah. I feed off of it 100%. So you can go track and racks outdoors and you can find the videos on there. But yeah, I mean, just be careful what you say online. You can hide under all the fake names or whatever you want to do. But I mean, you never know what somebody's going through. You never know what you're going to you can like you can snap a person's personality 100% like I feed off of y'all. I feed off all the haters, but like another guy could like it could be it could be bad for somebody. You never know. So just I mean, I always always advocate to spread kindness. Like I don't care what you kill. I don't care if it's a small buck, a little a big buck. I'll congratulate you anyway. I know I killed big deer myself, but I don't care. I'm not tired. You're not the same person as the next guy. Yeah. I don't care what you kill. Like if you kill a 110, I'm going to congratulate you as much as if you killed a 170. You know what I'm saying? So that's the type of guy I am. So just spread love. I mean, we're all in the same community. Everybody if you love hunting, then you'll get along with me. Like I love deer hunting, and I love fishing. And like we're all in the same community. We're off the same mindset. And I think I don't see why there should be any kind of jealousy in that field, you know. I agree. I agree. Dawson, you've been awesome. Thank you for the transparency. Thank you for letting me ask the questions and answer me with honesty because that is hard to do. That is very, very hard to do. And I assume that you want the personality that you are on social media. And that's why I wanted to have you on here because I wanted your 100% honesty. And I feel like I got it. I did. I really do feel like I got it. And I'll just say this between like, let's just say on the mental health standpoint, people don't realize that deer hunting is an avenue to get away from bad things that happen in a man's life on a day-to-day basis. That is my escape. And whenever I kill a big deer, if I post on social media, I'm looking for affirmation. And whenever you hate on the affirmation that I'm looking for, all that does is either it fuels my fire or digs me deeper in the hole, right? And Dawson, I think that you can agree with this when I say the more you hate the deeper that hole gets. I'm trying to dig myself out of a hole whenever I post a picture of a deer I kill. Because you don't know what happened the nine to 10 months of preparation to kill this deer. I got two kids at home. I got a wife at home that I got to provide for. I have a very good paying job, but that don't mean shit. So whenever I can go out here and I can put my time and effort into something and I do very well and I succeed in it. No matter if it's a 100-inch six-pointer like this one right here laying here or a 250-inch 12-pointer. Whenever I post something on social media, I look for affirmation. I want you to be able to experience my high that I experienced. That's the reason why I'm posting it. If I didn't care, it wouldn't be there. You'd never know about it. And Dawson, that's what I think that from the very start, that's what you look for. Hey man, congratulations. Good job on killing a big deer. And I think people ran with it. And then you took it to the next level by saying, all right, you're going to run with it. Watch this. Watch the shit. I'm going to fucking call your ass out on it. And most people don't expect to ever be called out. And Dawson, you have made a name for yourself for killing big deer as young as you are. Dude, I commend you for it. I'm a supporter. I'm a fan. I really am. And I probably always will be. Unless you fuck me over. You know, don't ever fuck me over, man. I'm never going to spread hate to you. You know, I really appreciate you driving down here and be willing to have this conversation, because I hope that this conversation clears the air for a lot of people. And I think it will. I really do. I think you're a good guy. I really do. And I hope that you find the peace. We'll just say this, and this may sound bad, but I hope that you find the peace and deer hunting that you're looking for. I really do. Because I think that then you think killing big deer now is not a fun thing for you anymore. Not really, not at all. But I hope that you find the peace to where it doesn't matter about inches. It doesn't matter about how big the deer is. I hope that you find the peace of actually walking out there, and I'm going deer hunting for me now. Yeah. I hope you do. Because us as men, we look for a way to separate ourselves from the real world. And the real world is we've got to pay the bills. We've got to provide for families. We've got to make sure that we are that good steward to the society. Dawson, you have an avenue that 99.9% people don't have. I hope that you find that peace to where you can start doing it for yourself again. Thank you for letting me ask the tough questions. Really, you don't know how much it means to me that I can have the avenue to maybe answer some of those questions or let you answer the questions that everybody else has. There's been things that were said to me that I didn't believe. And after today, I'll never believe them because I think that we could break down actually who you are as a person. I think that person, I think you as a person is just the guy that wants to be successful and to show people how to be successful. Yeah. Is that my wrong? No, no, 100%. Dude, thank you. Thank you for sitting down and letting me ask them. Is there anything else you want to cover? I don't think so, no. This has been awesome. Really has one of my favorites. And Dawson, I hope after this deer season, you'll come back. I hope so too, man. Like I said, I was in a lull for myself. Like every deer hunter, they go out in the woods for their self. But for me, lately, it's been for everybody else. And I hope I can get back to that for myself because that's what really drives a person to go like deer hunting. It's like a sanctuary where you go out and spend time in God's country and you don't care. For a guy, it's getting away to God's country. And for me, lately, the last probably three seasons, it's been more towards what other people... I've been hunting for other people, and I'm trying to get back to that motivation for myself. And I just hope I get back to it. I think you will. And I think that will come in and do time and age in maturity level. And I'm not saying that you're immature. I'm not saying that, but I think that as it goes on and as you grow as a person, we all grow every day. I learn things every day that make me grow, especially with my kids, my job, and everything like that. And I think that that will come. I think it will. But you have a means to do whatever you want to. Run with it, man. Run with it. But listen, anybody that was listening to the Hunt Most Indexing podcast, if you're experiencing the same thing, don't hesitate to reach out to me. I will ask you the tough questions. I'm not scared to us what I do for a living. I ask the tough questions. And honestly, ask Dawson. Because I think if anybody's dealing with anything whether it's every time I post something, I get shit about it. Contact Dawson. I don't think that he's going to ever turn you down for it. I really don't. And I really think that this is a good bridge to gap. Because here's a guy that probably experiences more hate than anybody in the south. There's not many people that experience the hate that Dawson gets. And then sitting down and talking with him, I know that that hate can be handled. As much as we seem tough, we seem that we have a chip on our shoulder. I really think that there's a way to overcome it. And I think Dawson has learned how to overcome that. Whether he spends the money to be able to go and hunt and fish and do whatever he wants to do, I really do think that even though that he will call you out on it, it still hurts. It sucks. It sucks to hear hate from the people that you search for affirmation from more than anything in this world. A man's mental health is the most undermined thing in the world to this day. Hate hurts, no matter what we do, whether I attack you head on or I don't say a word about it, hate hurts. So no matter what you do in your day in your life, imagine that you don't know this person and you don't know what they go through on a day-to-day basis. Think about that before you type in something. Get to know the person, ask the questions. And when you can do that, then you can form your own opinion. But before you do it, make sure that you know what's going on. Thank you, Dawson. Yes, sir. Thank you for this interview. Thank you for letting me ask you the questions. Thank you for letting me get to know you. And thank you for putting it out there. That means more to me than you'll ever know. And that means more to a lot of people than you'll ever know. Give me one big diders voice. [Music]
A long awaited episode has arrived. Dawson Durham is a certified giant buck killer and has a reputation because of it. With the reputation of killing these big deer, he gains a lot of hate on social media and he addresses that on this episode. No one loves controversy more than this guy and Jordan and Dawson dive deep into this. Really listen to this episode and hopefully you will gain knowledge about killing big deer in the South!
https://www.workingclassbowhunter.com/
The HMD Podcast is part of the WCB (Working Class Bowhunter) Podcast Network! Check out the other awesome shows in the family:
Working Class Bowhunter The Victory Drive Firearm Podcast Tackle & Tacos - A Fishing Podcast!
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