[Music] It's that time! No, no, no! Mm-hmm. Not a whole lot. I'm your host, Jordan Jones. Co-hosts, Cody Triplet. Nice to meet you, Cody. I've only known you for years and years and years. Years and years, buddy. Yeah. We have a special guest today. We do have a special guest today. His name is Jordan as well. Yeah. What's up, Jordan? Oh, number one. Jordan called me and wanted me to do a podcast and I said, "Why not?" Hey, man, this is going to be fun. Yeah. We got a lot to uncover today. It's going to be pretty cool. I hear a little bit about Jordan's backstory and he has a little, him and a couple buddies, they put a thing together called "Laster Odd Doors." I think it's pretty cool. So I figured, hey, you know, the Hunt and the Mason Dixon podcast. Yeah. It's all about the South. Yeah. Boys are good old redneck. Boys like what you are. Yeah. You know, he's a little bit more sophisticated than we are. He's got a degree for college, so. Yeah, exactly. He's making a face like, "Hey!" Yeah. Some of us didn't go to college, technically. You know, baseball paid for it. So what am I supposed to do? Are you a professional baseball player? No, but I was a college baseball player, so that helps. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. I mean, if you're good enough to play a sport and be able to go to school for it, I mean, I was real strong and bad men. That was a baseball player. Well, with the college to play baseball, I just had to get a degree. Yeah. I mean, I guess if you don't think that you're going with the next match, try out, you know? No. Oh, man. So, where'd you go to school? I have lots of state. Oh, oh, yeah. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I have state. You went there with all the liberals. You can say this. Yeah. I've worked there before. Yeah, it is. It's not a lot of guys shooting deer up on that mountain, if you will. I have some other than locals. You know, as I'd say, I've seen just about working there. I've seen some baggens. Yeah. Yeah. I work up there all the time. Yeah, that's right. Every day. Yeah. Just some big deer up on that mountain. All right. Well, if you will in the walk, if you're in the hike a hill somewhere, you will. Yeah. You gotta wear your crease beads. I mean, that's what we wear. We wear the crease beads, and you gotta walk miles and miles and miles shoot 120 each year. I mean, we've had these conversations multiple times about, is it worth it? Is it worth it? Well, for us, it is. Okay. Tell me a tale. Well, you got to tell me. I know who the hell you are. Tell everybody else about yourself. Well, nothing big a deal, really. Just I live here in the western part in North Carolina. I grew up in Surrey County, and I didn't grow up as a hunter. My dad, we were sports people and played a lot of baseball, basketball. And then when I got into college, a good best friend in the world, Corey, he's part of the last route, the worst. He got me into hunting. I thought it was a dumbest thing anybody ever do go sit in a box and zero degree weather and shoot a deer. I said, this is one I told him that really joke is that deer hunting is not work because I used to tell him this ain't no work. He's sitting up in a box and waiting for him to come out. What are you talking about? And so I went with him a few times and I got addicted because it's just that, and I blame him for my financial problem sometimes. He brought it on me. That schoolteacher salary just doesn't pay for as much as I can. Exactly what I want to do all the time. You got to need to do our cars on the side. Detail cars, pressure wash, anything I can do to afford my hunting habits, but now we got into it. And then him started hunting public, you know, not long after I barely got into hunting. So I kind of had a steep learning curve. A lot of times you grow up hunting and it's like you start up grandpa or dad and they teach it and mine wouldn't really like that. Corey had kind of had reached a point where he was elevating his hunting style and I had to catch up pretty quick. And so, you know, I started out pretty decent. I showed a good seven point in my first year. And then after that, it's like, okay, what can we find? And I didn't have a lot of learning curve. And so I had to learn pretty quick and woodsmanship pretty quick. And I just got addicted to that part of it, I think. Can you give us like a time frame or how long ago it was whenever you first started getting into hunting because is it before a lot of the internet? Yeah, it was right there before. We talked about this the other day in depth because we had scouted some places. It was really, it was about 2012 is when I got into hunting. Right. 2011, 2012. And then like when I really dove into, we're going to try to kill a big deer type of hunting, you know, that's a different and it was like 2015. Me and him decided, man, we want to go out of state and do a hell of these big deer. But we went to Ohio the first time and we had, we bought the maps you roll out because there wasn't on it. It wasn't either. And that was when we got in. So it was on the very last till then before, right before social media, social media on it, and all that help because, I mean, we break, and we didn't know what we're doing. Yeah, but we were breaking down game lens and hiking our butts off to spook deer to find out where deer were. Well, the best thing I think in, I mean, this is my opinion. The best thing is you learn something right when you was first starting. Yeah, you were having to learn a whole new style. So the good thing is about that. You weren't setting your ways on something. No, for years and years and years on. No, and you know, it just wasn't like dad. It just what he wasn't into it. He didn't grow up. My, my dad's, my grandpa, my dad's dad, he passed away when my dad was three. So we didn't have that family lineage of hunting. Yeah. And which made it kind of interesting. And so anyways, Corey and his dad got me into it. And then me and Corey slowly grew it to where we want to kill, he was at the point where he wanted to kill big deer. And I just kind of got in there with him. Because Corey's killed a bunch of deer. He's killed a bunch of deer. Yeah, he grew up. He grew up killing deer and hunting and, and stuff. And, and so he had that kind of early learning curve and I didn't. And then I learned how to, to go beyond that with him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the good thing is about that is, like, I just said, you have a new, he's learning a new way. Because he's going out of state and, and it's different. It's different. It's really different. It was really different then. And you remember, because, you know, back when before, like, mapping tools, yeah, you had to put crazy boots to the ground. Oh, yeah. My first, my first out of state trip was in 2008. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like we went and we bought Southern Ohio maps and rolled those suckers out. And we're putting pins on points and, and like hoping what we got in the vicinity of where that was. Like you couldn't do it up. And I mean, because every map was like $36 or $37. And it's not like you could take it, we'd be in track where you've been the whole time you're out there. I mean, the only thing we did is we'd roll it up, put our backpacks and we would mark off points that we got to based on the, the training features, a lot of latitude of the map. I mean, be honest. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm turning your mic up just a little bit. Oh, you're just a little bit. There we go. So, I mean, we, it, it was a great learning curve. I got into it at the right time. I wish I could have got into it a little bit earlier just to learn. I don't know if it helped. I don't think it made any difference. I don't know. I mean, we're sitting here in your man cave here and a little bit earlier. And yeah, you got some studs here on the wall. Well, well, a good thing about having mobile setup was able to come up here. Yeah. I'm glad you were able to come up here. I appreciate you all coming up here. Yes. Hey, whatever we can do to save, save, save you some time, you know, doing what it's your role. We're just living in it. You know, no, I mean, you started at a hell of a time. You've got to, you've got to experience a lot of good stuff. I have. And, you know, it's, when you, we talk about all the time, there's, you can hunt deer, and you can hunt big deer. And there's a vast difference. And because when a deer gets over three and a half, he becomes a different animal. And in North Carolina, sometimes it's two and a half or three, he becomes a totally different animal. And so that whole addiction for us and what we mean, that's just, it's fun. It's fun. Yeah, it is. Yes, it is. It's costly, but it's fun. Yeah. Well, yeah. Listen, I'm not going to say, I'm not going to tell everybody how much I spin up. I mean, my wife, we kind of go back and back and forth, like, okay, well, what's this going to cost? What's this lease going to cost? What's this going to cost? I'm like, I don't know about it. I mean, I'm sorry, but I mean, it's not going to be cheap, you know, like, I mean, your ass turned me on to a turkey hunt that I'm getting ready to go to in a while. Well, yeah, I can't wait if you get to experience that. It's, uh, I bet, you know, that's, that's a, I'm happy you're getting going on that West turkey hunt. Yeah. Well, hey, it's, it's a new experience for me. You know, I've been out of state only hunting whitetails before. Oh, well, I mean, I like to know how and Virginia and stuff, turkey hunting, but never really been out in the Midwest to do anything other than chase a whitetail. And yeah, I'm going after a 20 pound bird, you know, in the very first long beard, as he's dead. And I'm hoping it's. Yeah, well, the good, you know, like me and you were talking about the good thing is when you're out there, then the way they have it set up is going to be really good. Cause you got, it's, you know, you're hunting on blocks of 14,000 acres. I mean, it's not like out, you know, there's not land out and stuff. So you'll, you'll have a good time. Yeah. It's gonna be, it's gonna be a real fun. And I know that like even, so you've been killing whitetails now since when did you kill your first year? 2012, I think it was 2012 when I killed that year. That's a little bit in 2012. I killed my first year. Okay. So you've hunted 11 seasons, basically 11. So you've hunted 11 seasons and you got to where I remember there's a bunch of conversations we had. You might rather shoot a turkey than you would a deer sometimes. Yeah, I got, I got a rut there for a little bit. And I don't know why I got in a little rut when it come to deer hunting. I killed, I hunted a deer and he's mounted back here. And when I hunted him, I killed him. It was, it was, it was more of a relief than it was enjoyment. And I said, I mean to reevaluate. Yeah. What I'm doing. And I said, because this deer is a six and a half year old deer. And I knew, I mean, a lot of stroke in history and anything beside the point, but I had to reevaluate. And I said, what, what makes you happy? And that's when I got really big and turkey hunting. And it wasn't until probably this past season. And in the last season of this season, that I tried to deer hunt backwards, if you will. And um, and that's, that's when I, I've ramped it up with deer hunting a lot because of that reason. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, we got some static on the mic. What the hell is that? We almost dealt with that right when they tried to start. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, no, better with this for a second. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know who I'm going to move. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just okay. And that's how you had to, had to, nope, we're having some bad juju. Oh, that shit out. I'll figure out a way to get rid of that shit. But I mean, to tell us, you know, I know that you said that you wouldn't got in a box stand with Corey and he's like this shitting. How did you kill your first deer? Well, so this is kind of funny. Um, I went home with him the first time and I forgot what walked out. I think it was a, maybe a fox or a possum or something. And of course, it looked through the scope. I want you to look through. And when I was looking through the scope, he said, just think it has no idea you're here. And that sent me, you know, like, you started thinking about it. And it was kind of like, hmm, that's kind of. And so, you know, long, and so I started to hunt a little bit and I set them on ground blind. I had my dad has never gotten into hunting, but my dad and I graduated college, he bought me at Remington 700 270. And he said, I'm not in deer hunt. I know you are that here's your gun. And that was my, that was my first year rifle. And that's my favorite deer rifle I still use. But he said, you know, just I want you to have one gun from me. Yeah. And which is, you know, and so anyways, I set up my ground blind. I found a swamp on some of our property. I didn't know I didn't have a good deer there. I just thought it was a low line area. And what I looked at on YouTube talked about low line or not even YouTube. But, you know, everybody said you get getting the funnels, getting the size, got in a swamp, put a corn pile out 70 yards and showed a seven pointer. I got it on the ground. I shot it free-handed out of a ground blind. I got it. Only deer I've ever shot out of a blind was my first one that shot one since. And I got it on the ground. It was December the 27th, the 28th that year because it was really, it was like 18 that morning. And I remember calling Corey. I think he was in bed at the time. I said, core, I just shot a deer. I said, what do I do now? He said, you'll figure it out. This is where the fun begins. That's a good friend. And I was like, wait, no way. I'll be there just a few minutes. And but he anyways, he helped me. He said, gut it. You got to gut it. And then once you gut it, he said, bring it over the house. I mean, dad will skin it out so you can get it mounted. And I mean, I didn't skin, I'm not skin well. And so anyways, he brought it. I gutted it, which took me, oh God, it took me forever because I didn't know what I was doing. And that after I put ice up in, it was like 18 that day. It was cold, but I took it over his house. We skin it out and it's mounted right here above us. And I like how it was separated from the rest. So yeah, I'll put him on his own wall because I just kind of reminds you, don't forget where you started. Yeah, don't get what you came from. Yeah. Yeah. So kind of switch gears. How did how the hail did last draw out door start? It's funny. We were me and Corey, my brother, started it and my brother got a degree in graphic design from Appalachian. Okay. And we got back when we first started hunting, like when I first started right there on the first before social media, there was no cool, like hunting gear other than real tree and stuff like it. And I said, Troy, we went, we need a good design. He said, first, we need a good name. So we sit around mom and daddy's table one night and he said, we need a good name. We need a good name. And so we all come up with words. We're sitting right now, words. And I said, well, Corey said, I'm every hunt. I'm treating this like my last or eight. It was either him or Troy that said, I said, that's cool. And I said, well, we mostly bow hunt. That's when I first started getting to bow hunt in about 2015 or 16. And he said, draw you bow. I said, well, we got last draw and we put outdoors on it. And Troy, the actual, the cool thing about our logo is that deer on our logo is a real deer off my show camera. We called him the legend. Nobody ever killed him. I went door to door knocking. That deer showed up in the, it was 20 point 15 or 2016. He showed up and never did kill him. Nobody ever, I don't know what happened this year is a giant. If you look on that, whenever, obviously you won't plug your stuff in, you know, you don't have to. You're going to. But he, you know, with last year on, we did a lot of t-shirts and hats and stuff. And then it got really expensive when COVID happened to get anything. And so we had to cut it back and then we started having kids. And that kind of cut back the amount of stuff we could do. And we started our families and stuff. We still kept it going. We still, last draw, we still have our social media. But I don't know, we, we, we did the filming and stuff, but it was, I don't know, it was taking away some personal enjoyment that we were having out in the woods. So we kind of stopped with the filming for a little bit and just did the social media aspect of which we've had a great following. I mean, we've always had a good following with it. Yeah, you had like, I mean, I remember when my first message, you guys, it was like, you know, like 10,000 followers. I was like, damn, who's these rednecks? Yeah. And then we're, we're nothing but, I mean, country rednecks, just we don't, it's nothing special. It's just, we're going to post, if we, if we kill 110 inch deer, he's going to be on there. You know, I'm going to show it off. Yeah. And, and I think that's what people could appreciate. It was, it was kind of real. It was real hunting. It was real experiences. It was dogs barking as you wanted you to stand and, you know, it was real. And we always try to be real with it. Well, I mean, he talked about like being like, get old rednecked boys in the hill when I pull in here, you got your squirrel dogs out now or after a squirrel hunt. Yeah, we, so we, we do a lot of squirrel hunting. And we didn't, you know, when first started, Corey got a squirrel dog, bizarreness. He's nine this year. I think she's nine, maybe going on 10 now. But anyways, we, he got into squirrel hunting because he went one time and the dog, and he likes the interaction with the dog. And I'd never squirrel hunted much less with a darn dog. Yeah. And so for nine years, we've hunted off her back and she's had a couple, one set of puppies. So we've hunted off her offspring puppies and, and this, we honestly, squirrel hunting for us, one, it makes you a great shot. And two, those dogs will take you to places you'd never imagined for deer hunting. Really? Oh, yeah. I can have squirrel hunting, but I've never squirrel hunted with no before. So I ain't never dog hunting. Oh, it's, it's, it's so much fun to watch dog work. It's all I don't know if it's, I've never been coon hunting, but they say it's comparable. Um, just because the dogs, I mean, they're running them. The dog is so fun to watch because every dog's different, Zina trees, she runs S's, we call them S's in the woods to try to cut tracks. And if she cuts a scent, she can backtrack to that tree with that squirrels up. You look up there and I mean, at one point in her life, she was 96 to 97% on the sea bar, et cetera, squirrels, and that tree. That's how good she was. Oh, yeah. It was, it's insane. I mean, I don't know. There's hundreds of squirrels, you know, that me and Corey and friends and everybody's been able to hunt over her. And she's just that good. We're going squirrel hunting whenever we get down with this. Yeah, I've got the whole Steven's 14. I got my luck in the drug loaded. It's something, man. It's something. And you know, it's, it's squirrel hunting something that, you know, allows us to, we might call somebody up or say, Hey, we're not going to deer hunt your property. We let a squirrel hunt and most people will let you squirrel hunt. Yeah, I mean, I mean, we built a lot of relationships with people want to let go and squirrel hunt. Yeah. And it's open to hunting for, you know, deer, turkey, other things, but yeah, just over squirrel. Yeah, that's, that's pretty cool. You know, like, because people out in the Midwest, you know, they're used, they're you shed hunting. Yeah, that's what that's how they scowped. Yeah. Well, in the same time frame here, we got squirrel hunting, because I mean, our sheds don't fall at all. No way. Yeah. March. Yeah, something like that. And you don't find many sheds. And, you know, I talk about that a lot too. We've come to find out because I mean, we are putting miles on boots for these squirrels and rabbits. Yeah. And you would come across sheds, like the place you're given to mice and squirrels will eat them things up. We found, we found sheds and squirrel nests, like you look up in a tree, and we've seen them hanging over the side. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. No, it's because you don't think about sitting in the woods. You look up the squirrel nests and, you know, it's great. I didn't realize how much coyotes will take a shed away. They will. I mean, I mean, I'm a hill there, a dog. Yeah, it's a bone man. I mean, it's calcium in it. And so I think a lot of our sheds, then I particularly think the big sheds are the ones that are going to get first. Yeah, really. I, I would figure the little sheds because I don't care. That's what we've asked for the sheds. Some of the sheds I found laying on top right here. I got a Carolina living pointer right there. I got the match to this at my house. Those are the sheds you find right there. The Carolina, we call them Carolina 11 pointers, but yeah. I mean, in another six years, that might be a good one. Yeah. It might be hanging on his wall. I mean, he resembles every deer in here. Yeah. There's a few. I mean, it's, you know, they're not the biggest deer in the world, but they're mine. So yeah, that's understandable. Oh, I went out there to piss this little bit ago, and I heard a shot. Oh, well, good. Corey got him one. Is he hunting with sea bees or something? 22. 22. Let me max. Oh, many max. Okay. Because it, it didn't sound like it was loud. No, he's, we went with bull barrel 22 just because they're so accurate. Oh, man. Yeah. And that's one thing, you know, we've never swirl hung with shotguns. Really not. I used to 14 all the time. Yeah. And all people do nothing wrong with it. Yeah. And honestly, we probably kill more squirrels if, if we'd use some 14s, but we just, you know, it makes you such a good shot. Like I think swirl hunt has made me really good when it comes to handling a gun. Yeah. I mean, small game hunt and small game hunt is going to make you better or anything. Yeah. You chucking left this in 22s. It makes it on it. You'll see who can shoot real quick. I'll tell you what game I mean, I can shoot a boat pretty damn good. Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm going to leave out Morgan, but I can, I mean, I got a little mom. Yeah. And I'll tell you where it, where I, it made me excel. When I was a kid, all we did was go chase groundhogs with a boat. Oh, yeah. In the country fields. I mean, Cody, like we're right around where you live. I mean, I was chasing groundhogs weekly, shooting. I mean, I'm, yes, so many times and but just learning how to stalk, learning how to hone in on those things. That's one of the hardest things to do. Oh, Grand home. I mean, you, it starts to sense that you even looking at it. It's just tucking tail. Yeah. And, you know, when I talk with guys, we meet guys, y'all meet guys all the time. We meet guys all the time and you come across from public land or out west wherever you are. That's one thing about the south, you know, because talk about the south, it's such a, it's, I guess, just target rich, but it's target rich in a different way because there's a lot of small game. There's a lot of groundhogs there. And, and so if, you know, that type of atmosphere, you, you learn different types of skills. Oh, absolutely. Oh, 100%. You learn different. And, and if you, like, if, if you take those skills and you apply them like you do here out in areas where there's more deer or bigger deer, you know, I've seen southern guys that do pretty dang well when it comes to some Midwest type. Oh, yeah. And, and listen, I'm holding the Midwest long enough that I can't say, oh, if I lived in Iowa, I'd shoot boomers. I mean, I, I've hunted the Midwest for 15 years and I've killed one booner. Yeah. Yeah. I've shot one deer. That's 160. Yeah. I've shot a lot of 130s and stuff. I mean, yeah, there's a motor. I don't care where the hell you are. Yeah. I mean, I think there's a big deer and I've always lived by that. So that's, that's, that's, I just think, you know, as far as small game, it just, you got, it's just a different level of senses you develop. Shooting like you serve a groundhogs. It's just a different level of, it's, it's just another tool in your basket. You're aiming for an eyeball. Huh? You're aiming for an eyeball. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like squirrels. You know, we, we got to say in the headshots only. Yeah. And so, you know, we give each other a heck if it's not a headshot. Yeah. I mean, some of these suckers are 60 yards up in that poplar and the wind starts going, you better start, you better pick you window. Yeah. And because, you know, what, what we've encountered this year is like, you know, it'll timber. And so if you get one shot, if he timbers, he finds his nest, you can't shoot them up nest. It's legal. So, oh, I didn't know that. Got my hand back. Right. I think it's squirrel hunting about 15 years ago. And so, and so, and so, because I blew a bunch of nests out of that for 10. And, and we don't, you know, and so, I was a kid. Okay. Yeah. And so, I was a kid. Yeah. And so we just, you know, we squirrel hunt and, you know, we eat them and Corey, Corey makes squirrel pop pie. And, you know, with Tyler, Tyler's different, we get rabbit hunting. Me and Tyler, Tyler. Oh, I love rabbit hunting. Yeah. No, rabbit hunting's weekend. Rabbit hunting's fun. And I, that's one thing I got back into. I did it as a kid a little bit more, because I'm used to small games all we had around here. There wasn't deer around here. Yeah. Yeah. You know, even in my lifetime, there wasn't deer around here. Yeah. You know, back in the mid 90s, if you're saying an eight point, somebody's saying an eight pointer, I didn't deer hunt, but that was a, that made news. Yeah. It's going to be in the packet. It's going to be in the packet for sure. Yeah. And, and so, you know, dad would let people come rabbit hunting or possum or not possum, a coon hunter for them. Yeah. And, and they come over and stuff, but we didn't see deer. Yeah. Yeah. They just weren't there. Well, I remember growing up, like my family, they all hunted. Yeah. And even if one of them killed a spike, like it was, that's pretty big news. Yeah. Big deal. Yeah. And now, like, well, if one of us shoots a 100 day jate pointer, I wasn't shooting that deer. Or the classic song, since they got milk on his lips. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I was still running with a mama. Yeah. I'm like, you shot that and it ran to his mama like, why did you have a mama? Yeah. Yeah. I can't give you too little heck every now. Yeah. I mean, well, we as good as you are, Jordan. I'm not good. And, and I'm not, and I'm man enough to say I'm not, I, the plate, the area that I get to hunt and the learning curve that Corey and then Tyler, Tyler, now he, he joined up with us with last straw. We're good friends and he joined in 2019, maybe a little bit, maybe in 2019 or 2018 was yours. Tyler's a darn good hunter too. And so I'm getting, I've got the, I've got really good hunters that surround me and I got, I got pushed very quickly. And that's, I mean, I'll just be honest. Well, I mean, you're only as good as the places that you could hunt you on. If there's one, like one time, I'll never forget this is the best line I've ever, I'll tell everybody this. Was it the Dixie, Dixie Deer classic, the first year I went up and Corey took a shed to get a sign about Tiffany Lukasco. Yeah. And, um, we were there for a rack. I get it. Yeah. And so he took it up. Yeah. I'll sign your rack if you'll sign that up. And, you know, he takes it up there and she said the best thing Corey, Corey is joking and just, just joking with her. He said, listen, this, this right here is a boomer where I get to hunt. And she said, she looked at him and she was serious. She said, you can't hunt a big deer if a big deer is not there. Yeah. And for like, you can take it all out. If you're not in an area where a mature deer exists, you can't hunt him. Yeah. And, and so you got a, if you'll drive, you'll drive yourself crazy trying to hunt something that ain't there. Yeah. And that's what I tell people all the time, like you pick the best thing you got to hunt. And if something else shows up, yeah, there you go. But they have like, keep it realistic. Yeah. What you got to hunt. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I've suffered from that because like, dang, you just don't, they're not there. Yeah. It's so hard. None of the you and I, we've had a bunch of conversations even here lately about it. Man, listen, I love hunting the south as much as I do. I mean, it's my favorite place to hunt in the world. I'm, no, don't be wrong. I was pretty fun to. I can understand. I understand. Yeah. But like, I really enjoy, because I think it put me in a position to where I can go chase a good deer around here, right? And I learned that and I'm able to take it. But I mean, it makes me appreciate it whenever I do come back home. Yeah. Yeah. And, and the deer here. But on the other hand, I'm almost getting tired of chasing 120 inch deer. But I, a five year old deer is a five year old deer. If you don't know what's on his head, if you're hunting score, if you're hunting score, then you're not, I mean, what a fair bear. So you can't measure success with the yardstick or you should be yardstick measure. Yeah. You know, if you're, if you measure success in inches, but man, it's hard. It's a hard, because that's a deer hunter. You like, it depends on what type of deer hunter you are. And I've never, like, I'm never going to be mad at certain types of, however you want to deer hunts, how you want to deer hunt. They're like, we live in a state where we get a lot of tags. I mean, you get two bucks for those deer states right now, they're outlawed doe hunting. Yeah. Northern Wisconsin just come out. I'm tagged out on those by the second week. If I can, I will, I mean, I'm going to fill my doe tags. I mean, I set their wife and then I'm seeing 21, the 20 does or 19 does and one buck. In your backyard here. That's what's insane. And, and I, you know, and so we're going to tag out on those. You know, got to. And that's a whole management. That's a different conversation. But you got to, it's hard because you get to the point of the deer hunter, like you've got, and if you kill upper caliber deer, you want to challenge yourself to, to, what can I, what can I do? What's next? What's next? What's next? What's next? And it's not that you're not appreciating the deer. It's just, you're trying to challenge yourself. Well, I've noticed, you know, since I've started hunting that, you know, I do go for that older caliber deer and that, I mean, I'll go a year or two years before I punch a tag in North Carolina. Yeah. Just because of the age class of that buck, they're just so hard to come by. I mean, you got to think I got, you're talking about, you know, you can't base it off of their head gear. Well, I talk about him all the time. I got deer named Big Lewis. There's like eight years old. Yeah. He's a 110 inch 10 pointer, but he's 250 pounds for here. And it's just, oh, he drives me crazy. I can't stand it. Yeah, the problem is, is like, you take, you take that deer right there, and then you have some three-year-olds that are way bigger than that. Yeah, bigger than that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know they're there for a while. You had 130 inch three-year-old deer, and that's unreal. That's unreal. But, I mean, they're four in their 133 inches. Just once they hear about that 130 mark, you just don't see the jumps like in the areas that we hunt. Yeah. You just don't, well, even here, we don't see it, you don't see a 20-point jump in a year. Yeah. And that's where, that's when you cross out of high river. You see that. Yeah. When you cross that river, I mean, in Kentucky, you got great deer, too. It's not that, but once you cross out of high river, man, it's just a, it's a completely different. It is. Yeah. And so you'll have three-year-olds out there. I mean, the deer that I've got mounted in here, he was three and a half, and he was like 132. Which one? The Public Land. Oh, high book. He's a t-shirt. Oh, oh, oh, yeah. He's a three and a half. Oh, high book right there. He's three and a half, and he was 132. Yeah. That's insane. And, you know, you look at, you look at his frame, he was going to be a main frame 12. Mm-hmm. Next year, he puts 20 in, he's, he's a 150, something four-year-old. Yeah. Yeah. And then he puts 20. Think about it. Yeah. I mean, you look at the one that Obarn just got done with in Illinois. He went 141, and he was a three and a half-year-old. Yeah. The same difference. And he carried, he had six-inch bases. Yeah. And he threw it in the room. Yeah. And it's, it's just, when you start driving out there, and for somebody that's never been out with us, because people from the south just don't get that experience. I mean, unless you just go, you know, you start driving out there, you know, we think we have a farm land here. You got a hundred, us farmers got a hundred acres of corn. They got 10,000 acre corn pellet. That deer literally beds, sleeps, eats, and ruts in the same block. Yeah. Well, and he don't come out like cornfield. No, no. And that provides its own set of challenges for killing a deer down there. It does. I mean, yeah, I know we can go on a corn pile and maybe, maybe get a chance to shoot the big eight-pointer, you know, coming to a corn pile. And then we say, oh Lord God, do you go out west? You got a gigantic corn pile out there. What, why are you saying the UA ain't deer hunters or, or, oh, it's easy out there. You have the big corn fields or deer everywhere. But man, I've hunted out in the Midwest long enough to know that. It's not easy out there. It's not. That's why people go there. They don't go there because, and listen, the biggest misconception is like, oh, I'm going there and I'll go shoot a 150, 40-year-old, you know, and then there you are. I promise you you won't. You can't, what is the working cut that you can't trip until one 50 or you do trip until one 50? You can't trip to, or, uh, it's just, I tripped into one 50. Yeah. Yeah. And that's literally the case because I went out to Illinois because I was trying to kill one bigger than the biggest deer I've ever killed. Yeah, absolutely. And then, yeah. I ain't, I've only seen maybe one or two deer out there. And it's strictly luck that I ran into them. Yeah. They were just a touch out of range that. But they were giants. Yeah. They were giants. But I mean, it, I'm putting between 40 and 70 miles of boots on the ground scouting out there just to be able to get an encounter with one that big. That's crazy. Yeah. It's, it's tough. I mean, it's tough to find them. And we've been blessed to find some deer on public land. Um, and, you know, how that's where we go to hunt because it's close to home. I mean, you know, isn't the tags are still over the counter? I think Ohio will eventually go to a draw state. I feel like it should. I feel like it's coming. Um, there's a lot of stuff, you know, um, that's, you know, Kentucky's thinking about, I've, I've seen the law yesterday come out, like taking poke, uh, cameras off public land. Well, Kansas did it first. I know like, it's my dad and my dad does it. He reads the law and follows along to a tee. And he went out there and he's like, yeah, I'm going to put a camera over here on this piece of public. I said that you can anymore. He went, dang it. Well, then, but I will say this. And this is based off of his words. He goes, Jordan, I've seen more bucks on than I've ever seen on public land in my life because there was no pressure on it. Cause people aren't walking and chatting cameras and, and just, they're just, they have to go and hunt and then they're going to go hunt the first good buck sign that they see. Yeah. And so I'm, dude, I'm for it. I'm for it. And we've talked about it once, it take, you feel less pressure because you don't have to like, you got to go out there and put cameras out and check them. Yep. You're, you use woodsmanship. You have to. Yep. And, and it keeps the pressure off some of these deer and it'll make public land better. That's what they're trying to do. And we need that. Yeah. Because I mean, we talked about it too. I mean, and for a working guy, working guy like us, like leases and do it, like it's so expensive. You don't want, you don't want deer hunting, especially a guy that wants to go out and enjoy and the United States of America. You don't want it to be out of reach forever. Like, if somebody wants to go hunt, you should be able to go hunt. And, and if you make it, if you get to a point to where it's only a rich man's game, you're going to lose a lot of young hunters. Well, that's already starting to happen now. It is. And so the only way, the only way to combat that is, and, and the DNR and some of these wildlife, they're doing, they're trying to do things to combat that, I think. Oh, absolutely. And that's good. Yeah. That's really because I wish they would do it in North Carolina. Yeah. And they might. And it's, I hope, they might. And it might trickle down. We, you've got to see it happen and, and prove that it works elsewhere. And it'll trickle down. But a lot of it depends on the people, the state, if they want it. Yeah. You know, like Ohio, those guys don't want what they've got to change. And they're, and everybody in the state agrees. They don't want to change. They're going to fight it to the nail. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, and, and so I think a lot of it depends on people in the state to fight it. So I think what's going to happen, like, because with an Ohio, if you have, and, and I always like to speak on this, because I've been hunting Ohio since 28, since 28 2008. So I think that there's going to be a lot of pushback for the drop state, because it's one of those states that you don't, if you have, if you're a landowner there, you've, you don't have to have a license. No, you do land on a tag, right? Well, what's going to happen with that is like, I don't have a buck on my, on my farm. I want to be able to hunt public land, like I'm paying taxes in the state. I should be able just to go in to Walmart and go buy a license. Yeah. And which Kansas is that way too. If you own a certain amount of acreage, you can get planned on a tag. I was like 80, I think. Yeah, no, no, no, you cannot be an honor. It's the Kansas 80. Kansas is 80. I would, you know, because I heard that they were trying to pass that and I would like where they were. Yeah, they were. That's what it was. That's never going to pass. And I would, no, I did this because they can make too much, right? Well, if they did it, like, let me, let me 80 pieces of horse. Will we get bought up? I think about people. I'd buy one. That's what I'm saying. It might be so expensive that you can't afford to buy the land. Why I tell properties and land pros, all those land products, they will buy every 80 pieces, 80 parts or bigger, and then sell it for triple the price. No, yeah, I pay for it. Well, I'm okay. And that's what I told Ashley, I'll tell them about my wife. She could probably care less, but I was selling her one night. I said, I'm okay with only getting a high hour every six years. I'm okay with that because at least when I go, I know I've got a shot. Until you hunt it, you want to hunt it. But the reason I won 100 every year is because it's protected. Yeah. Yeah. And if you, if you don't protect that one resource, which they've done a dang good job, they don't protect the resource. And that's why it's the best state in the country to hunt. I was not going to be Iowa. No, no, like, I will say this, you know, I've got quite a few friends that live in Iowa now, they are a different breed. Like, we are a different breed of or killers. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Stack them. They are a very, very, very particular about like, if you're going to come to our state, and this is when I figured out, if you're going to come to our state, please be courteous because we are doing everything that we can to keep these big deer here. Yeah. I got some good. And now, I mean, I could consider them very close friends that live Illinois, Iowa. And they're like, yeah, listen, come and enjoy it. But please be mindful, share what you want to shoot at your tag. Yeah. But if you want to keep coming up here and have these connections and stuff like that, don't be somebody that's come up and shoots the first 100 inch 8.5. I won't notice that too. Yeah. Same friends in Illinois. I mean, they're like, you know, I know you can come up here every year and buy every counter, but still be respectful to it. You know, don't tell everybody where you're hunting. Yeah. Don't just, I mean, listen, the one good thing is, is we're all working. I mean, the network that we're on, all these guys, we're all working class guys. Yeah. They absolutely understand like, what it might take to spend $500 on out-of-state lessons. So go shoot, go shoot whatever you want to shoot. Yeah. But dude, you have the opportunity at a big deer if you can be patient. Yeah. And I think that that is one thing that we can learn in the South as patients. Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard, you know, there's a lot of different styles of deer hunting in the South that are very traditional. Yeah. And we dog hunt squirrels, so you can't, you can't be hypocritical at all. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's generational. So each generation has got to decide what they want. And, you know, I will all date back centuries. It's not, it's not a new thing, you know, and because I'm a high school history teacher, I teach my classes, some of this stuff, just because I enjoy it. But, you know, I can nerd. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. I tried to put a little bit of hunting back in high school, maybe, but, yeah, you know, it's just, I heard, we got one thing about North Carolina and South Carolina, South Carolina, even Virginia, our deer numbers are crazy high for most part of the state. Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, it's unbelievable. And I'm not talking, I'm not saying big deer. Yeah. Deer numbers are just population. Population densities are so high. And, you know, it's a good thing because, yeah, we gon' eat deer. Really good all year. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We got a equation. We're not going hungry. But we got, generations have to decide, do you want to be a deer hunting state or do you want to be a big deer hunting state? Right. And out west, they decided we want to be a big deer hunting state. Well, I just, I read or sent something online. I think it was yesterday that certain parts of North Carolina are trying to shorten their gun seats. No, it's a western. It's a western part. Yeah. It is. It is. It is. I wish they would do it in the north western, but it's, it's, yeah, right now it's western. That's a step. That's where I live. That's a step in the right direction. Yeah. See, you can't have it all at once. Did you see the articles of, like, the bare hunters, the bare hunters? So, a bare hunting is really big in western North Carolina, like running them with dogs and stuff. Yes. And I am all for it. I don't do it, but I'm all for it. Yeah. And that's your style. That's your passion. That's a way of life. Like, we just talked about your mission. Like, we are big on traditional type of hunting here in the south. And running bare, running bears with dogs is one of the biggest things. Honestly, North Carolina probably caters. And I may get coast out for this, but North Carolina caters more to the bare hunters than they did the deer hunters. Oh, for sure. I mean, you got to look down on the coast. I mean, that's where you get your trophy black bears. I mean, some of the biggest black bears in the country are killed. In the world. Yeah. In the world. Yeah. In the world. Yes. That's what they argued me one day. I was, I don't know. I was in God. I was out in Montana. I'm like, yeah, we got black bear. I'm like, you don't got black bear. Come down to a peanut farm on the east coast and see what a black bear looks like. Yeah. You're talking about six, seven hundred. You shoot a farm on a brown bear. You're like, yeah, you shot a decent one. And I'm like, I got a 400 pound bear where I live in North Carolina as a giant down east. I mean, we got that old record black bear. Is it seven or 86 pounds? Yeah, eight hundred and eighty three pounds. I'm not the archery one. I was the archery one. You shot this year? Yeah. The archery one. It was eight hundred and eighteen pounds, I believe it was. And, and uh, but dude, like with that in western North Carolina is where we have a huge bear season. We're talking about shortening the shortening the gun season, like, well, and, and I will say this, they made a good point. Like a lot of these bear hunters make a good point. Yeah. Listen, we don't want to run our dogs while y'all are deer hunting. Yeah. We don't want our dogs shot and we don't want our dogs to like mess up your deer. I mean, they, they understand because they got 10 to $15,000. I mean, some of them don't have that, but there are dogs out there, 10 to $15,000 a piece. Yeah. And, and people have eight to 10 of them. So, they got a house, a house worth of dogs. Yeah. And, and I, but I would love to see them shorten that and to go toward that. Let's get bigger there because I'm telling you right now, North Carolina is coming on the map of our big deer being killed in the last year. Yeah. I mean, velvet 200 inch deer killing 202 inch deer was killed in the eastern or middle eastern part of the state. Yeah. And central part of the state and it's, it's getting, it's getting there and you, we've all had big deer on care here in the last few years. I mean, yeah, it's coming around to me. It is. And I, I don't think it's even the walls. I think it's just guys that are decided. I talked about this on the last podcast. I think social media, as much as I hate it, is playing a part in bigger, a lot of guys realizing, hey, instead of shooting that four pointer that will get three likes. I'll shoot this eight pointer that's 120 inches. That might get a hundred likes. That sounds really shame, but it's a true. And, and honestly, we can, you can dog and we can look at them wherever I use them. But trail cameras have changed the big deer market. Yeah, they have trail cameras. Let people know, wow, I got, I got this running around. Okay. I'll, I'll be a little more patient. Yeah. And I'm not seeing everybody. Yeah. You take, you know, 50 or 60% of the deer hunters and they're waiting. That's a lot of deer. Also, I want a half year old's hanging show. Yeah. And so I know, I mean, whenever I first got started hunting, I mean, I was, went and got me two cheap test codes of Walmart and next thing, no, 125 inch eight pointer showed up and he was there. And Rebecca already, you know, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, shit. Yeah. That exists around here. Yeah, we have that here. Yeah, actually. Yeah, I can't believe it. I can't believe it. Every time I don't see shit, I missed him open the morning too. First year actually bow hunt and then I shot right over his back. He was like 10 yards. It's probably right over top of it. This was last year, by the way. A couple more years ago than that. You know, you start talking to people and I had a conversation with a guy not too long ago and he said, I don't know why y'all go sit out in the woods. He said, I see 20 deer in my field each night. I said, you're not seeing the deer that I'm wanting to hunt. Yeah. I was using 20 does last night. Yeah. And you know, your social body, a picture that's never, like that's deer hunt of a never ran trail cam or never grew up. And he's like, look what's out here. Yeah. And you're like, what part of how is that from? You're like, yeah, that's not, that is he in my backyard. And I think I showed him that I showed Cody that food plot picture you sent me. Oh, yeah. That's back here. Yeah. It's insane. Yeah. I've never in North Carolina seen, that what you sent me in that picture. I'm not going to say exactly what it was, but it's insane. Or where maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like, I should be talking about two blue jays fucking. I don't know. It's funny. You know, we, when deer feels safe and when they're allowed to have a little pocket, it's amazing what will bed wear and what will stack in there. And, you know, it doesn't, some of the best places I've ever hunted are the most least unreal look. I mean, you wouldn't, most people wouldn't hunt. There's the smallest acreage pieces you'd ever imagine. Yeah. And that's where big boys hide. Yeah. Absolutely. And honestly, that's country wide. Yeah. Yeah. That's country wide. Some of the biggest deer get killed just right outside of the city. Oh, it's over. Hell, even in the city limits. Oh, great. I mean, Seq one has made a living shooting deer on quarter acre parcels. Yeah. I mean, 200 inch deer on quarter to half acre parcels. And it's, it's insane to me that a deer like that would live in a place like that. Oh, yeah. I had a, you know, one of the biggest deer that I've killed here, he bedded in a spot that he could watch every single house in four different directions. So he knew when people were coming and going and that's, it was his bed as well. As soon as I killed him, the next day I went back, backtracked it to his bed, to the dirt, rubs all in there. And I set that house stupid, but I do this stuff. I sat down in his bed. I said, why? Why do you bed right here? He could see every house. He could see me entry and exit to every single piece of property. He could hear every car. And he had a visual of every single, he nobody could ever sneak up on him in his bed. Mm hmm. You ever thought about putting a camera there to see what time he consistently well, and this is why I didn't go. I knew I kind of figured that's where he's bedded. I don't go into a bedroom like that and put a camera because you get one shot at most of the deer and he will not use it. What I found, if you bust him out of his main bed, there's a good chance you ain't going to see him for a while. Yeah. I mean, you can bump and dump. It depends on what time of year. You can bump and dump. You can bump one, but to go in there and put a camera, they know when they get a certain age, they know what a camera looks like. He's probably walked about a hundred in his lifetime. He knows that smell. He knows, in case in point, I had a camera, I had a camera on my food plot for this deer where I could catch him feeding in the summer. But one season got here gone, but I had a main hub scrape. Literally 50 yards off the food plot, he did every night. He would not come to that food. Yeah. Well, I had one, I mean, I had a deer last year, his big club deer, his deer six, seven years old. And I only got a handful of pictures of him, but his big steers that I had on the property, every time my camera would go off, he would run. He'd come back to feed, but as soon as that camera clicked, he would look at it and then take off and he'd come back. It's crazy. The camera would click, he'd take off again. And then I had another camera on him. It was the big community scrape. It's there every year on this property. And as soon as he'd hit that scrape, that camera would click and he'd take off. You know, another thing with big deer, each big deer has got his own personality. And so you get one deer, I got one up here mounted, we called him Mick, because he was a seven pointer. Now he turned to eight, which is wide, wide eight corner. And I killed my bow. That deer was addicted to corn. That deer, he would eat corn. He would eat corn in the middle of the day, the end of the day, he did not care. He did not care about a camera. He was a stupid four and a half year old. They're stupid deer. Mm-hmm. Oh, God. Yeah. Well, that deer did that deer grow up on a corn pile. Maybe. I don't know. I have, I have my thoughts. You know, if you, if you can bait him from a button head. Yeah, maybe you're right. You will train that deer because that deer has never been shot at. Has he ever seen you in the tree stand? No, he just, hey, there's, there's food. Yeah, there's green grass clover and there's acres, but that's guaranteed food that is going to be there this time of year every year. Yep. And he might have been the S first year ever hunted him. And I was just like, I mean, I busted that deer out twice. I ruined that hunt and then I'd kill him in the middle of the water. Yeah. And I mean, I shouldn't have killed that deer. Yeah. No, not these smart. I shouldn't have killed a four year, we think we had them at four and a half. You know, we, a four and a half year old, which is a very mature deer for our park, you shouldn't have killed that deer. Mm-hmm. But now he's one of one. I've not had that experience since. Yeah. And they're like, this year, I was scared to put out food. I did, I did not like, because. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. So, all right. That was going to be my next question. That was going to be my next question. So you have, you did something this year that is how I grew up hunting. You know, and I've baited and stuff like that. Yeah. But, you know, you're still, I mean, you hunted over 10 years, so you're no longer a fresh deer hunter anymore. But in a way, you kind of are because you learned a tactic on how to hunt. You know, we're not a big tactic podcast, but obviously it's, it's part of the conversation. You know, you, you, you changed the way you hunted this year. Why? Well, the, I had a coach when I was playing college, coach Pollard, he coached at a Duke now. He coached me that. He said, the definition of, definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Exactly. And so, you know, I've always kind of thought that and I said, well, I had, like, it isn't a start this year. It was last year, beginning last year, both season. I said, I was, I said, damn it, I am not, I'm tired of not killing. I can kill a buck. Like, I've got my spot set up for muzzle loader. If I put my time in, it's going down. Yeah. Like, you know, I can about bed on it. But I said, I want to kill them with a bow. And I want to kill North Carolina, good deal with a bow. And so last year, I kind of readdress, like, what am I, let me do the exact obstacle I'm doing? Because I'm not working. And so I got, I started hunting book beds, or I say book beds. I started hunting bedding that would collated with camera pictures. It was book. Yeah. You know, you know, I'm talking. And so anyways, last year, I did it twice in October on cold fronts, like October cold fronts killed here, right? Oh, for sure. And it's, it's a thing that's country wide. I mean, you get that first cold front on October. I mean, you give me high pressure, safe, you give me high pressure, five hour wind, October cold front and a red oak or white oak fallen. He's he should be dead. Like he's got a good chance to die. And so I sort of, as long as you know what white oak or red oak is falling, it's a fresh as that's right. Yeah, God, yeah. And a general area, you don't have to be on it, but you got to be in this guy to be tight. Like, you got to be willing. The thing that I was always scared is I'm going to bust something up. And then I got to say, what, what am I going to bust up 120 inch deer? Like I got to learn. Yeah, I got a really like, this is my chance to learn. So last year, it was the last year before last, I got in and I said, in my mind, I one morning I got up and I said, I'm hiking to this tree. I know it's red oak fallen or white oak fallen. There's a scrape there because I scouted a leak before the scrape was there. We'll see what happens. Yeah, I seen two shooters that morning, being in a shot. And I mean, good deer. And the following year, which is last year, I got, I did the same thing in the same time, like in the three day window. Yeah. And I missed, I hit a limb and shot over this deer's back. I grunted him in on October the 20th or something like that. And did you show Cody that deer? I hadn't showed Cody that deer. He was over 20 inches inside. I mean, he was like, he was unreal, you know, for the, for this area, in the area, but he was, he was like the deer that Daniel killed. And just a great deer. And, and he ended up getting killed later, which does, you know, it's fine. It happens, but he has a very mature deer. And then I said, okay, something's clicking right here. And so this year, I said, there's a spot that it's on my family form and learning to tag this or anything. But there's an area that I never would hunt early season. It's nasty. You can't see 10 yards in each direction. And there's no reason to hunt it other than that's what the security cover is. But you got to be willing to bust them. You got to be willing to push. I'm always scared. You can't be scared. And so I found one tree, and I get up in that tree, I'm dropping milk week. I'm like, my scent is going to freak me up every inside here. Well, the thermal pool was so big that it was dropping to a little pool right below my feet. Now, it's a swamp. I was hunting a swamp. And my second sit, I hit a limb and shot over a really good deer, which he's over here, school mounted. But I said, and I was mad. I called Jordan. I said, God dang, and I was mad. And I said, so I knew, he didn't spook him enough to get him out of there. I thought I actually might have hit him because I had a lot of coyotes on camera. I went back and looked. I busted out the whole area. Yeah. But I don't think I busted a deer out. And so coupled, I think it's a week went by. I couldn't hunt other family stuff. And so anyways, I got back in there and I said, okay, this tree, it's not that it's messed up. I just think the deer have moved because it was right the time the oak started falling. So I made a U-turn up the hill about 50, 60 yards. And it's in the stupidest spot, really, because it's kind of wide open. It's right off bedding, but it's kind of wide open. And I called a tower, I'm like, I'm going to FaceTime you because this is stupid. Like the deer sign I'm seeing on this oak tree looks like it looks like you took squirrels and mixing with turkeys and just ripped a ground up. It looked like you took a tractor and their messed a ground up. Yeah, it was that hot. And I still was three days late. I think I was three days off the window. Really? I was on the backside of that window of that tree. Because it seems like I mean, I don't know if you're about a 10 day window on a tree is where you want me. But if there's no oaks, I'm not talking about for a big day. I'm like talking about like a 10 day window total. Yeah, yeah, on a particular feed tree. But if there's no oaks, like if there's not a lot of oaks in that area dropping, you might have three days. Yeah, because they're going to bring things going to everything. That's what I'm going to take. Like I'm going to get into like a little bit because I hunted that tree the next day. I seen nine that afternoon and killed the nine pointer that I was after. Yeah, when you missed. Yeah, and he's right over here. And I killed my bow. And then I'm like, all right, well, that's only do an area. So I said, but I had a camera on that feed tree. I said, I want to see what's coming here. This is stupid. I had four shooters that the night after I shot and drug it, dear, out had four shooters. There was in three nights, there was 900 pictures on the oak tree. Oh, man. Now you don't have a heart that some gun was good. But the thing, but the thing thing was drying up. Yeah, it was drying up. And so I said, all right, I got the boots to the ground. So the next day I went back and I pulled into the field to get some of the backs out of the field. Anyone was pulling the field and there was over the book in the back side of the field. I don't know. It's not the one I end up shooting, but it was a good deer, a shooter. And he was out there with some from those. This is, this is October the 15th or 14th. No, it's early in that it was October 7th. And so I go back in there, check that camera and I'm like, Oh my God, this is crazy. There's, I mean, four shooters, like four deer over four years old type of one area. And I was freaking out. I think I probably messaged you. Yeah. And so anyways, here's the weird part. There was no oaks, but this one ridge had red oaks that were falling. Aren't you going to eat red oaks typically? Because I said it, how typically like white oaks and less, there's no white oaks. Yeah. Yeah. And so come to find out those deer were like this, this is the only ridge on the whole form that had oaks dropping. And so for two weeks, I got to live the dream of hunting deer. It wasn't the real pictures that you would see me. It was unreal. Like I had two sits in a row. There was a deer in there I call Bo Jackson for obvious reason. He survived. He survived. He is unreal. And I cannot wait to see what he's probably, you know, I fear he's well over two thirds, 230 pounds this year in, in the middle of October. If you shoot, if you see in the year over two hundred pounds in North Carolina, that's a yeah. You could call him Bo Jackson then. He's a giant. And I'm not like it. I mean, I don't want to stop you. Why do you name them all after baseball players? So this year, this year was last draw. We picked different years for different names. So I think last year was WWE names. This year's baseball names next year might be swimsuit names, swimsuit calendar. Who knows what it's going to be? So we have so many American right there, buddy. If we don't know, we just joke around. We don't know. We don't really know. I mean, we pick names because when I sent Corey a picture, I'm like, Hey, what do you think of this deer? And if you like, I don't name them to like pets. It's like, it's differentiating. So we're telling a story. You know exactly what you're talking about. And when this deer stepped out, I mean, he just looked like a deer that I could hunt that high. Yeah. And this stupid. His horns were dwarfed by his size, which doesn't happen much. And because I, and the only reason I know that is I seen him twice at 40 yards and couldn't get a shot, but well, because he was in the hardwoods. He just wasn't ethical. And I seen him the first set, I seen him at 415 in October in hardwoods, eating and eating redoaks and broad daylight. And the second set was, you know, little is like a week after that. And I kept sitting down, I'm like, and I had one random picture of a giant. Like I had one random picture of a giant deer. And I was like, well, he's not living in the area. There's no way. And these pictures I'm getting are not in this oak flat at this point. I took all the cameras out. I didn't want to freak the deer up. And so I had a community scrape, probably a hundred yards off this area. So at nighttime, all these deer gets community scrape, but they're not going to go to it in daytime. I knew that. Like I didn't want to mess them up in daytime, but that community scrape, I was getting picture of any book in the area, hit it. Yeah. And so I got one random picture of this book. And I said, probably not going to kill him. I mean, I'm hunting Bo Jackson. So as I watched these deer in this woods, I kept noticing one thing, there's an X in these woods. And most of the time you'll encounter the X. And it's how close you can get to the X without frigging it up. Yeah. You got to be able to get close, but not. And so I know it's tactical stuff, but you can go into it. And I had to learn, this is one thing I've learned, and it's kind of been hard because it's happened so fast, but and it doesn't make a lot of sense sometimes. But anyways, there's a magical X. And these every deer, if you'll notice in the woods that we're going to cross, even the doves are going to use the same X to cross, whether it's a thermal hub, whether it's whatever these deer hunters want to call them. There is some reason that every deer it might be just one tree. It might be where they can see. It could be anything, but if you pay attention. And so anyways, I noticed it. And I said, okay, my next set, I'm sitting to kill. Like I did two observation sets where I was out of the ball game. If he caught bars, I'm killing, but like this next set is going to be the kill. So I waited for the, I knew we'd get in the one more October cold front, and we got it on the weekend of the 22nd. Yeah. Yeah. And yes. And so I said, I told my wife, I said, I need three days. I said, take care of it for three days. Like the kids. I'll see. I see. I need three days. And because I got to hunt this cold front. And. Oh, my God. Hold on. Oh, my God. All right. I'm sorry. We had taken Paul's break. Buddy Corey just stepped in here and he's holding a dead animal and I love it. Yeah. I love it. He's a bona fide killer. Yeah. You don't drink beer. No, you know, I don't, I can't, not that I want. I just taste for it. You know, it's just not my taste. I don't listen, I hear it. And I appreciate it. Look, gosh, that's a woodford or something like that. It might be a little different story. Or Jack Daniels. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe Harry. There's the killer. Oh, my God. Yeah. It's first time meeting. I've got to meet him and he don't like to talk much, but he'll listen. He'll sit in. You can put on the headphones. It's already connected. It's pretty wild. It's pretty wild to listen. Yeah. Yeah. Just sit here. Just sit there. We're just sitting here telling the story about the wide and heavy one. Yeah. And so I actually complimented you. So, if you hear this, you'll get some appreciation till Desi listened to it. Yeah. Yeah. But anyways, you know, me and Corey talk about this a lot and he's probably going to chime in here a minute because he likes, he loves talking about this. But there's always an X in the woods. There's always an X. And he knows it. And we kind of learned that together. And anyways, those deer were caught. They were pinpointing to that spot. And it was a red oak that was dropping. It was really high. And so only then, that was a kill day. That was a day I was going to kill. And I get down to the tree that I picked out and I'm like, okay, well, it wouldn't work. Now it's already pissed. It's raining on work because I'm too far in. So I backed up 10 years. I'm like, well, I'm either in it or I'm not. And so anyways, I climb up, I hung out of a saddle. And I get up there. Oh, tree dapper. Yeah. Yeah. I love so comfortable. But I get up there. And I mean, I just had pulled my bow up and nine does come out the feet. And I'm glad, but I'm kind of pissed. You can't miss. You can't miss. Like you can't move. You better not breathe. Yeah. And this one little stupid spike come to the bottom and started licking my peg or lick licking. And I said, oh boy. And so I just stood there and, or I sat there in the saddle or whatever. And I looked down the hill and it was about five, fifteen. I looked down the hill. And all I seen was this frame coming up and he lit curl. And once he lit curl, I said, I don't, that's not Bo Jackson. That's not his frame. And I mean, this deer looked 20 inches wide. Yeah. And so I sat there and I said, okay. I told myself, and I told Corey, I told myself, my mind, you're not going to get a shot on this deer. You're going to get to watch him, which is not, you're not going to get shot. Yeah. And I had to do that. One, to stay calm, because I mean, how often you get to see deer like that in the end I was. And so he's come up the hill, puts his head that he don't know anything's going more. The doze for the deer gods are watching. I don't know, but the doze start working past me. And I just sit still, stay calm. One spike turns and goes towards him and all the doze start feeding off. And my, my thermals were good. It was, they were lifting at that point, they hadn't dropped it. And that, that buck comes up and he, he makes a rub and I about lose it. Make starts making a rub, makes us great. And if you never got to watch a 20 inch wide, big mess, it's unreal to get to watch him work. And so he comes up, does a U-turn and I said, Oh my God, he's 30, he's 39 yards. And because I range the tree, they crossed him, crossed in front of him, it was 40. And he about dang near hit the tree when he's going for, I said he's 30, he's, he's, he's, I'm in this game. I'm in the game. I'm in the game. That's a little far out, but I'm in the game. And I, and I said, keep it together. You're not going to kill him. And he comes in, I'm, I'm at this point, it's eight to 10 minutes. I've been watching this deer. He hooks around and he's faces me for four or five minutes. He's sitting there facing me, like, just posture to, yeah, survey. And I'm like, don't move, don't move. Well, he just starts eating red hooks. And I said, what in the world? And so he steps, but I'm going to start to get out of bed. He starts going to the, he starts going back to the left and there's, there's two trees and I range the second tree and it is 30 yards. So are you super single pin? Because my eyes are getting bad. And so I, I, I knew it was 30 or I knew the tree was 30 yards. So I put it on 31 or 32, because he's going behind the tree. He goes behind the first tree I draw. I don't stop him. He puts his head down and I just settled the pin. I get ready to pull the trigger. I said, wait, stop, take you time. He doesn't know you're here. I aim again, put it right, but right in the pocket, it laces through him. I said, God, I mean, he, he, he done the mule kick and everything. I said, oh, I just smoked him. I said, and then it just called kind of hitting in and he goes down there and stands. I said, God, I hope I hit him. Good God. And he just goes down and starts looking around. I don't know what happened. It just falls over 40. Oh, man. 40. You're in 40. He ran 40 yards. And I call, I think I can't remember. I tried to call Cory. He didn't answer. He probably still ain't worried about it. He wasn't. He was, he was on his river restaurant. And then I called Tyler and Tyler not even hunting. Um, and I said, Tyler, I just killed the biggest deer in my life. He said, you are lying. I said, I'm not. He said, what, he said, what deer? I said, I just killed Jim Tommy and you named that deer. Yeah. You give me the name, Jim Tommy, because we're doing baseball names and I don't have a name for him because I didn't think I was going to kill him. So I won't even name him. I mean, you know, and, uh, so I said, I killed Jim Tommy. Tyler said, there ain't no way. I said, well, get on up here. You'll see him. I'm sitting here. We're looking at him. And, um, and I didn't, I mean, you, you, a trail came, can be very deceiving on the sides of a deer because they distort the image. And even the pictures that you sent me was deceiving of that. But you couldn't tell Matt. You couldn't. And, and, um, and, you know, he was, he was a big, he's a long, a long, long-bodied deer. And, um, so, because he, I mean, dressed, he was right. He was between two, 15 and two, 20. Yeah, drinking, not dressed. Sorry. Sorry. Not 100. I killed that. Lovely. And, um, I mean, you killed it. Like we said, you killed a deer, 200 pounds. And we've had the good luck of killing a couple deer, 200 pounds. Yeah. If you say 200 pound deer, North Carolina, that is big. That's a big, that's equivalent of a Midwest 250 pound deer. Yeah. I mean, it is big. Like you walk up. And so you'll hear some guys, and I'm not calling anybody. But you'll hear some guys say, I killed a 265 pound deer. I want to see it. Yeah. I mean, two or 65 pound North Carolina deer. I've never seen that. I've never seen a deer over the largest body deer I've ever killed in North Carolina. With the guts out of it, it was like 181 pounds. So is that 210, 210 pound deer? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, and so anyways, Tyler comes over and, and I didn't, I didn't send, he couldn't get any pictures. We have no signal out here. He couldn't get any pictures. And Tyler comes over and I, I didn't even tell him. I said, I said, come on down here. Don't you see him? Tyler looks at him. He says, do you know what you've done? I said, what are you talking about? He said, you, you just killed a monster. And I said, yeah, he's pretty darn big. And he was more excited. And I was, I was still kind of like shocked, like, holding the show. He showed up. I didn't expect it. I mean, like, I wasn't running a trail camera down that, because I mean, there wasn't a need to. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Is that not the best feeling in the world to not run any trail camera? It is. That's something we're going to sit into. It's a surprise. And it was a surprise. Like, I knew he was there because I had him on the scrape camera, but the scrape camera is a good 200 yards from that. So I didn't, I didn't know you bet it down there. I didn't know. I knew I was hunting a bed. I knew I was hunting the X and I knew I was, I was, all the factors were right. Did not expect that deer to show up. Yeah. I thought I was going to kill Bo Jackson, because I'd have to, and I would have been more than happy to shoot Bo Jackson. Like, I would have been thrilled just as much. But aren't you just so glad he's made it one more year? Oh, my yeah. Yeah. He's a little, he's a little, he's a little ridiculous. And I'm not talking about horn wise. He might not be. He's over a hundred, he's a hundred 30 inch deer. Easy. I mean, just coming here. But yeah, he's going to be a Jack, but I just had to fill him. His neck, I got never chased a deer, had to opt in to see a deer where their neck just does, like it's just stupid. Yeah. It's like your hunt. I don't know how it is. Yeah. What was that? What was that guy? What's that guy's name that was on that dating show? And he like, Oh, yeah. That's honestly, he literally, he's like, you're my best for you. Yeah. Like I said, Corey was one, I sent Corey a picture with us at Tyler picture. I'm like, please tell me this deer is big, because either he's a dwarf deer, or his body's so big, his legs look small. Yeah. Well, his body's just that big. Yeah. I killed a dwarf deer. Yeah. I killed a pie ball deer with with Cody. Oh, yeah. I mean, yes, it was a yearling, but I guarantee his legs were a foot long. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. It looked like what are they called? They mules African Dica or Dica, Dikers or something like that. Yeah. That's more or less just a big version of that. Your way 25 pounds, Bob. I was like, Hey, I'm shooting a shit out of it. You know, I was like, I seen a lot. I wanted to pull in the trigger, but man, it was a, it was a great experience. And you know, I don't, a lot of people have had a lot of people ask me about that deer, because I mean, he's, he's unusual. I mean, he's kind of unusual. Yeah. I can't say I'm heavy. So, I'm asking about this. What, what you've scored basically every deer you've killed, why not official? I mean, you put a tape on it. Yeah. Why didn't you want to put a tape on that one? I don't know. It's something about, we talked about this and I know in a ballpark of what he scores for me and Corey knows and that my buddies know, because we talk about it, but it's like, I don't think a score in that hunt does that deer justice. Yeah. And it's a good score. It's not, it's not a, and he's a hundred thousand percent pope and young deer. It's not like that. It's like, it's just, as your big a deer, you're ever killed and you've killed some one thirties. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And, and so when, for me, that hunt, it was like, I, like, that hunt, you read the sign, you read the sign, you made the moves, you made the moves, and it kind of lit a fire of what I'm doing is, is working, keep doing it. And it's like, that deer was the moving over that point of, I'm not, you're, you're a different stock, you're a different caliber of hunter, personally, from, from my growth. I think it, I think that's, I think that's why I don't care what he scored. It's like, I feel like I've got a little bit better of a hunter. And that deer was like, okay, I can do this. Yeah. And for me, um, I don't matter. He's, he's, I'm, the deer I killed an owl this year, I was like, I ain't gonna put a tape on it. I don't care to know what the deer score is. The big, there's no doubt the biggest deer I've ever killed in my life. But I had somebody say, Austin Chandler said once a deer might make 170, I went, hmm, maybe I want to see if it will. And, and, unfortunately, it did. But I'm like, if it wouldn't have made 170, if it would have been 169, I'd have been like, damn, yeah, I should never think that way about a deer I just killed. Like, why would you ever think that? And the thing is, it takes away from them. Some people, you know, hate on people forget love and score. I don't, if you want to score them, score them, because I do, I will score some deer. And I'm not, I'm going to score some deer in my lifetime. But I think each deer has their own different style of hunt. And then it's a buck. I don't want to score. I'm not going to score. If I do, I do, because I know if I kill one, you know, however, if I kill one, I'll probably score. Just for that deer for me, it just don't matter for him. Right there. I turn things more to you than just about, I mean, the only deer it means the most to you is obviously the first deer. Trash up here means a lot. That was my first big deer. He's a non-typical. He means a hell of a lot. And then Yogi has a, a different meaning. That's the, okay. So I said, we're going to do a cover art. I said, there's a deer that you have, it's hanging and there's a spotlight in the back. That's Yogi. Yogi. Dude, I want to show you that picture and that's going to be the cover art of this episode, because I think, aren't you standing there? It's like shadowed. Or is it just Yogi sitting there? He's just hanging there on our skin and pull. And Yogi for me was, that was a special deer, not because it's kind of weird. His whole age, all of them are special, but Yogi was more of a relief that I killed him. And it said, I'm not doing this again. I did it from one. Yeah. I know what you're talking about. But I'm not going to get so entwined with one deer that you know. And it was driving you insane. Yeah. I mean, and you can't let a deer drive you insane on 20 acres. A lot of guys, and it will. It'll be talking about that deer that I mentioned earlier, big blue. I've been chasing a deer for three and a half years. Deer has grown 10 inches in three years, but where he has to hunt it? Yeah. 40 acres of woods and it's all pine. It's all ponds. Well, the bottom has a few oaks in it and stuff like that. I know, yeah. Like I mean, you've got four trees, but I mean, it's the bears. Yeah. Bears is what causes the issue there. And of course, you want to give us some input on bears. You don't like bears because a thermal channel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It sucks, man. I mean, even just like I said, you know, this me getting into the hunting and all this that we're talking about and all that I've, I don't have a lot though in there. But like when, when, when I got into honey, it goes back to it. Corey was getting into the next phase of his hunting journey. And I was just getting into hunting. So my learning curve is a lot different than the typical person, but y'all got to learn that together. We did. I mean, it probably, honestly, I will say this, it puts you a step above. It did. A lot of other people because you were, you were fresh. You were, it's kind of like what they say like in sniper school, they'll say, I'd rather take somebody that's never shot a gun before. I can teach you how to shoot it the way we want you to shoot it. Yeah, Corey, you brought in Jordan like, Hey, I'm learning this. Let's learn it together. And we can learn all this stuff. I mean, you're smart guys. I mean, it's not, listen, deer hunting is not rocket science. What's rocket science is trying to figure out a big deer. Yeah. And then at that point, Corey, that's kind of Corey. That's when you started chasing real big deer, like you're, you want to go out of state, you want to go do all these things. What Jordan, you're like, Oh, yeah, I'm going to jump in on that. That's good. Oh, yeah. I like seeing big deer. And you know, you don't like that. I mean, yeah. Yeah. And then I tell you, I tell you my voice boy. Well, and I tell you this son, I tell you this, the, and I'm going to tell this story, because this is an awesome story. This right here is, and we've told them a podcast before, but I've never put it out there. And Corey, Corey's part of this story. And so, Corey, you actually may have to talk on it. And I, and this is, this is the most proud I've ever been of a deer that I didn't kill. That I didn't, I mean, thank you. I guess I got the assist. Okay, I got the assist. Yeah. And so, the first time we ever hunted out of state was, what year was that 2017, 2016? The year 17, it was 2017. And we picked a game land. I'm not giving it away, but we picked a game land, one that is very, um, it's very vast. It is like hunting mountain terrain. And we decided we're going to go up the hive, Southern Ohio, because I've already talked about Southern Ohio. And all we had to go off was forums. We read forums and we went to the, we went to the place where people said, you can't kill deer. And we said, by God, we can kill deer. Because I know, I know we're talking about, and that is a hard place to learn. But we said, at least we won't see other hunters. Yeah. That's good. That's global content anymore. And it ain't about where you go. It's where the people are. We went up and scouted twice or three times, picked 40 ticks off all of us. I mean, it was, we up in July, we, we camped at a campground. A guy was eating the smoking mushrooms right beside all of us. It rained, it rained. Can you send me a drop in the windfall? I mean, that seems like a white goat. This was a, I want to go scout. This was people hit me hiking. You know, this was, this was crazy, but we stayed in, you know, we wouldn't have done all this scouting this year. And this was before on X. So we're doing all this stuff of memory, rollout, painters, we roll out, uh, maps, we talked about this a little bit earlier, but this particular hunt, we went back that fall. And everybody, all of our buddies told us how stupid and crazy we were. Why are you going to go hunt? You're wasting the best time in the hunt in North Carolina. Cory finally told, because I'm going to hunt big deer and you're not. And, and that's pretty much, and I said, I got to get hit. Okay. And I said, I'm just long for the ride. I'm just going to be long. And so, long story short, we go up to, um, go up to the hive and we, I pulled a camper, I never even pulled a camper before. And we pulled my dad's mom and dad's 28 foot camper. And we find a cam spot and we, we, we, we hunt up there, whatever. And the first day we go in, we hunt a spot that we've scouted early that summer and we get back there and, uh, we decide that is not where deer want to live. That I'm, I'm going to name that spot on our baby. We didn't have pins. We had, yeah, on a map, we named it hail. Like, seriously, so what, what was the terrain or not terrain, but like what it was, it just a lot of underbrush. Oh, it was, it was, it was 300 feet to the top of this mountain. It was a saddle in between. Yeah. It was green, oh, high green, oh, on top. And was the, the access from where the storms, the, uh, there was a storm, ice storm. Hey, can y'all scoot together and swing at my crown so we can hear both of you? Okay. And, uh, you see, see this, we can edit this out if we have to. There's that little white symbol on the mic can kind of square up with that. Okay. Right there? Yeah. All right. Yeah. Um, and so, so we climbed three to 400 feet in elevation. Yeah. And, um, we just got in our mind. All right, so well, hunt that sound owners will be deer up there. We'll know what we do now. There probably is a big buck using it. Oh, there's definitely a big book, but you got to be willing, me and talk, that's all fun. You got to be willing to, to not seek deer for a whole week to see the right deer. Yeah. And we weren't willing at that time. We wanted to seek deer. Yeah, you mean, right? Yeah. We wanted to be on right then. So, well, that's all we knew at that. We, we didn't know any better. And there's no mapping. Just know nothing that we could learn. And can you hear me giving up? Is that fine or try to there? Try to. Okay. Right here. Yeah. Right there. All right. I'll swing it up and then turn the mic a little bit where that white sticks out. Right there. Right there. Yeah. All right. And I'll let, I'll let Corey Chumman here in a second, but we, so we climb, you know, we climb up there, we hunt. And Corey called me halfway through that morning and said, do you hear anything? My ear, it was so eerily quiet up there. My ears were ringing. You could hear the tinnitus in your ears. It was, it was that remote. And I told him, I said, see, this is, this is not going to work. Yeah. I said, and here we are four hour, like, at that point, that was a big deal. We're four hours away from home. We're on a remote game land. Well, we've got to find deer. And so we went back to the camper. I'm there for you. We went back to camp with here and everything off the table. We laid down our map and we said, okay, where would a deer want to live? And we, I mean, did we not? And, and we said, okay, there's, there's a private land ag field, you know, off this side or off this side. We're just going to go walk around to. Yeah. We, we, we said, we're going to bump deer until we thought where do you want to be? Yeah. And we went on this. We went and found this part like what we talked about earlier. No, we're scared. No, I mean, just going into my Illinois trip this year. My, I got out there and I had two weeks. First, I called Jordan morning that I was rolling in because of that. Everybody says like, man, fuck hunt and go find them. And that's what I did, my first day out there is a business, you can do my stand on my back. And I was like, I'm going to go check this spot, this spot, this spot and this spot. And that's what I did. And I'm been damned if the property didn't change 100% from what it was last year, because there was nothing in their life that it was last year. And you could have set her all week and wasted a week. Yeah. And so that was kind of like, we didn't mean to do that, but we just, after sitting up on Hill Ridge, which is called, we call it literally Hill Ridge, we're not going back there. I mean, I probably would now with a gun in my hand to gun hunt it just because I think they get pushed up there. Yeah. Know what we do now. But at that point in our hunting career, we just said, okay, we'll find somewhere else. So we found a spot and we went and checked it and we jumped four does. I think it was four. We jumped four does. And Corey said, well, by God, we're going to see deer if we sit here. I said, yeah, we're going to hunt it together. So we, we, we, we tagged team kind of that spot. Yeah. You know, because you're bow hunting. And so the way it hunted top the ridge bottom ridge and, and it was, there was a funnel on it kind of, and it was, there was a, there was a kind of a slight drainage, slight drainage and a cut over. Yeah. And the only reason we stopped here is we found sign. That's the first sign we'd found, like Rob Scraves, you know, and I said, okay, well, I think we hunt the first day and dad, but we, we both seen deer. We said, okay, well, we're not going to get skunked. And that was, like then that was a big deal. Yeah. And Halloween morning. Was that the next day? The very next day? No, we hunted it three days. Okay. But we seen deer every day. Third day it was Halloween. Yeah. Okay. Third day was Halloween morning. And I'm sitting there. The sun's coming. It was beautiful. Like it was the gold, no high woods. I'm just sitting there. I'm like, what's your dream of? Yeah. And, and I'm sitting there. And I don't know why I'm up on this top of the ridge. Corey's on the bottom and the funnel in the drainage. Now I look out and it's like this field area. And I just seen a monster bump. And I said, gee, I'm as big as deer I ever seen in my life. You know, and I said, well, they do it on Midwest whitetail. So I got out my rattling horns. I fucked them things together. I started grunting. That sucker turned on a dime and starts coming. I said, you know, I started freaking out. You go to North Carolina, you don't have money. I'm range in 60 yards. And I've said, now looking back on how stupid that was, I'm range like, if he comes to that hole, I'm going to let it fly. Yeah. And not that I would have because I don't think I got to be in the 60 yards. If he's going to be 60, I'm going to steal an oil buck. I shot him at 53. And he was walking. Well, there's a coach telling me miss every shot you don't do. All right. I don't advise that. We're we're ethical. But yet I've already, I mean, I always don't let him lie to you. You go from seeing, you go from seeing nothing to a giant. He's a giant. And I'm like, holy moly. And the here he comes. He's coming. Well, now I know what big deer do. Of course he's going downwind for no. Yeah. Well, check mate, we had a guy downwind. Oh, Norman. And we didn't mean to have a guy downwind, but it worked out that way. So I'm sitting there and I'm like, all right, this is some of the guns going to come up right here. And and he disappears. And I didn't take the Corey big buck coming get me all was crazy. It was is watching that book. Respond to your calls. You got to watch it. I was front row center and Jordan was up our call and Grutton rattling in the next. Listen, his absolute mind. And the crazy thing is I seen this book trotting straight to it. And I said, he's about to get a play on this book. And then for whatever reason, he got downwind and he, I guess he just caught something or sent something he didn't like. And he Jay hooked out of there. Oh, he got by you. Oh, he got by Jay Jay. And then the next thing I know, he was, I arranged this fence post and it was right at 50 some yards. And for whatever reason, I guess the Lord was with me that morning, but he curved right into where I was at right on that board transition right on that pitch. And he comes straight to me. There was a giant to you. He was, he was fun. Oh, man, that was awesome. That's a big, what was that the big eight? No, that was 10 born. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. For the for the people listening, did you put a tape on him? Give him a rough idea on how big his there was. Yeah. Yeah. He was. Was he gross? Gross. I think he was 133. He only had two inches of deductions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a clean, clean, clean. Yeah, gross. And then open young deer. That's a great face. I mean, at that, and at that point, we had. Yeah, just pull it out. You can just pull it back and forth. We only have three mics for dinner and we'll start having to get down. You know, at that point, we had not seen in both of our lives what a deer above 120 inches look like. Yeah. And so, I mean, this was 2017. And oh my God, dude, it was it. And Corey shot. I heard the swacker hit that deer in the chest. He shot him facing the deer, never would broadside. He came in facing the cord, drove it right down through, but on the neck crease and or right under, right? Right in the brisket and drove it up in him. And I heard, I heard all this commotion. I'm like, what the heck's going on? Because I can't see him or the deer. Well, blow me. And my phone starts going off. He said, I just effing shot him. I said, you did what? He said, I shot at somebody and I'm like, Hey, oh, yeah. And we were jacked up because I mean, we just wanted one of us to get a shot. Yeah. I mean, we're in public land. We're running out. We're rolling out maps. We're rolling out maps. There's trying not to get high off some rooms. You know, we have been we had endured that summer. We we went and scouted and it was raining so hard one night. We were up there that our mattress was floating in the tent. I mean, it was just air mattress floating in the tent. I mean, we had three scouting trips to find it because then you had to put foot boots on the ground. Yeah, word. I still think you should do that now. And that's what we do. That's what we do. And that's why Corey and I mean, I'll be honest. That's why he's had a lot of success is because of the boots on the ground. Yeah, he's really good. And that and we do too. We all do, but he's had a lot of success because he's found spots that you're just they're there. Yeah. And and and on the map, it can look as pretty as it can look. And you get there. I have been led wrong a lot. Well, you get there and oh my god, there's a damn tree stand right there. I mean, because it looked and that's what you've got to put boots on the ground to find out we're not to hunt. Yeah. Well, let me let me tell you this. So this past year in Illinois, where I got my absolute butt whipped, where I killed that buck, there was within 30 yards of me three different tree stands. It was a hundred yards right off the road. And I just, I looked at it on the map and I was like, I'm gonna go look at it boots on the ground. But you had just seen a giant right before that love by seeing a big deer. All right. So the big deer got pushed out of the woods by the buck that I shot, when I was on the spot and stalking, whatever. Well, I got boots on the ground. I went in there with my stand on my back and I counted 12 different scrapes in that little pocket right next to the road. And then that just goes to show us. Yeah, you ain't got to walk 90 miles. You ain't got to know you don't know every deer in which pocket I was I hate to say it sounds terrible. I am very big on going as far as you can go. One of the deer I killed was 62 yards from the truck. Another deer I killed was 41 yards from the truck. Another deer that I killed was a jump side to side straight to it. And another deer I killed. I drove side to the truck straight to it. But it just, because I've spent so much time scouting, I realized, Hey, it doesn't matter. I've got on the map, those places look like dog crap to be honest with you. Yeah. Yeah. And and so what's crazy about that hunt was what happened after he shot because the deer takes off like a bad out of hell. We've got an arrow swacker, you know, 18 inches up in his brisket. And so anyway, takes off, he goes down to his cutover. So we give him some time and then we go trail him and jumping. And I'm like, he's he bled the entire time too. His deer does not stop bleeding. And and I mean, and so we get down there with trailers here. So you're just looking up at this point to see the deer dead later. Yeah. He's got a matter of time. Yeah. Yeah. He's got a believe it there. Yeah. Like, you know, and and so he keeps going or whatever. And and so we go back to the truck. What's a mile walk back to the truck? So we go back to the truck, eat our sandwich because it was noon by that time. And then we come back, we trail it again, jumped a sucker up again. No shit. And he's going, he's going around this cut over his covers, probably 10 acres. I remember saying the picture. You're in the thing of the ship. And and I'm like, God, so we sit down. We just sit down like, well, I mean, what's going on? He's still bleeding. This here. Here's the craziest part about this is that deer when we were blood trailing that deer, even though this deer is losing blood, you know, this is this is probably 400 yards after about 400 yards after initial hit. Yeah. And we look up and there's attack on tent, ground blind. Uh huh. Well, all of a sudden, we're following the blood trails going straight to this tent. All of a sudden, blood trail shifts to the right, like hard. And that deer literally loops around, injured, wounded, loops around this guy's trail camera and tent and completely avoid his whole set. Yeah, they know shit. And they enjoy now bleeding, still knows to avoid it. Now that if that's not a learning lesson, I don't know. He'd been shot at before. Well, that he'd been hunted before. He was hunted by that guy and he knew to avoid the camera, the blind. I mean, and so anyway, if we keep following the blood, he still bleeding. And this is ours. And we're sitting there and we jump him again. Third time. And he comes straight up out of this. I mean, we're within 10 yards of sucker and he comes up and I was like, oh, when he jumped up and run straight away, dude, it was just unbelievable. We finally got to put eyes on him and say, let's hear him crashing. Yeah. Yeah. And so we sit down again and we wait. And so we start trailing again and we finally get up and the blood stops. I'm like, he's worthy. He's here somewhere. Where did he get? This is a middle of no ways and middle think. I mean, this is gnarly. This cut was probably a two year old cut. So it's nasty. And, uh, and I encourage looking right. He's like, I mean, he's cussing. We're, we're, I mean, we never said it. And I look over and the suckers just laying there with his feet up and, and, and it's, you know, and I just, I, I look where I hug him. I give him a big old kiss. I said, we did it. Or did you kiss him? Oh, geez. And that's what we're going to say. Yeah. This ain't no broke back mountain or nothing up in here, but it's called a broke dick family. Oh, yeah. Because like, because like everybody told us we're stupid, we're crazy. You're not going to kill nothing. Don't. And we did everything different back when there is, it's easier. I think it's easier now with online mapping to find areas. Um, it's easier to find them, but that don't be you got to still got to go. But I think it's opened up a different and, and we did it with literal, like hard for maps. You did it. Old school. Old school is crazy to think 2015 is old school. It is. But that shit has worked since maps came out. Yeah. Seriously, like back in, I don't know whenever the first map was created, but it was a long damn time ago. And it's worked consistently. Well, I mean, if you look at a lot of the killers in the industry, they still have their map of their property. They still got their thumbtacks and different colors. Bill Linky. Yeah. The way I was going with that. You know, and then you got, uh, who is it? The breaking point? Yeah. Guys, they do it still and they're consistently killing still. Yeah. I think it is a great resource for somebody to get a overlay map of whatever property they're hunting, just to kind of take their eyes off a phone for a minute, because I mean, you can get drawn into your phone, but if he gets you a map, you can see the whole thing at once. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see, like, and I know that Corey, that you're dealing with a, there's a piece of public, a local piece of public that it's hard. I have a hundred that it ain't far from your house. I'm not going to say, I'm not going to say what name it is. It's sanctuary now. Yeah. So there's a big ass bear sanctuary in the middle of it. And in dude, you can take that map. You can find 90,000 places that look amazing, like pinches, funnels, whatever, but man, seeing a deer, just seeing a deer. Have you had any luck even seeing many deer? I've hunted three years and I have not yet put eyes on deer. Oh, three years. I'm still going at this point, at the person. And the first four pointer it walks by, I promise you. I do say he was nine years old and went downhill, you know. I got a buddy that hunts that same property. And he's got some studs on camera. So if you need his contact information, I will link you guys. I don't think you got to worry about that. He got some studs on camera, and they just don't, man, that's, that's, that's the thing. That's the problem, if you got studs on camera. Yeah, that's the problem that keeps me going back. But you know, looking back at that, that hunt, our first hunt, how looking back on it now that we know a little bit better, if you go through, you know, A to Z, you know, we, we, we scouted, we found this spot, we, we hunted it, we elected to move. And from that point, we, you know, looking, it's, you find the spot, we, we made the right decision. At that time, we did not know we made the right decision. Yeah. You know, we elected to pick our stuff up, rego scout, relocate deer, find deer, when looking back on that now, you know, eight years ago, we, we made the right call, but now that really sits in, in place what we, the natural process that needs to happen. Exactly. Exactly. And looking back, we did all that, not knowing it, but we were successful. Yeah. Yeah. And if you continue to do that moving forward, I think that's why we've, we've kind of elected in our, our hunts have gotten more successful. Yeah. Yearly. And, and the biggest thing, I think in core, we talked about this so much is we've applied that to our private land spots. Mm hmm. Yeah. And, and we're having stupid encounter. Yeah. Is, is that not crazy? Because, okay, like there's like Pizzigan National Forest is right next to my house. It's 80,000 acres. Yeah. Right. But if you can take those tactics that you learn, and like I said, I'm not huge on tactics, but it has, it's part of the conversation. You, you, you take what you learn on there and then take it to somewhere that's a hundred acres. Oh, like you think you can, it's like, if I'm willing to do this on a place that I only know what's here, hey, I can, I can take this and what I have learned and apply it to that 20, 30, 50, 100 acres. That's why we're successful. So successful here because the terrain, yeah, gives us the opportunity. Well, you can't be willing to mess up. No, you can't. Yeah. I'll be willing to mess up. I mean, the worst thing that can happen is you learn something. Yeah. Yeah. I saw, that's our kind of our say and when we go somewhere, we might get our ass handed to us, but we're going to freaking learn something. No, yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you, if you knew your life was going to last 20 more years, you would take way more chances. Yeah, for sure. You would take way more chances. Yeah. That's kind of, yeah. See, I mean, that's my point. That's kind of one reason we always said that because you don't know. I mean, everybody's on time clock and you better make on count when you, you only get so many November's. So, yeah, you know, and so I would, you know, I would hate to have thought that I didn't try at least, at least if, at least I'm going to try. Yeah, absolutely. You know, absolutely. Because it just, if you err on the side of aggression when it comes to hunting, you're going to come out on top more than you think you will. Yeah. Well, so here's what I think, you know, like us being raised in the South and going and trying to just find a deer is one of the hardest thing to find a mature buck. I think that's what separates us down here from people out in the Midwest because Midwest, you don't have a lot of the big timber areas. I mean, some states you do, but like Midwest, where everybody thinks Iowa, Illinois, Ohio, you don't have the timber there. So they're like, you know, I'm not going to chance it. I'm going to play the wind here. I put a stand on my back. I'm taking off in the mountains and I'll play the wind whenever I get to the place I want to hunt. Yeah. You play the wind and take the chance. Our winds are not constant. No, they never are. You can get to your spot, you know, hour in after your hike on public private. I don't care where it's at. I don't care what the weather channel says. I mean, you want to predominate wind, but once you get there, then you got to make your decision. Absolutely. You have to fine tune it once you're there. Yeah. That's the reason why like saddles have got so big and lock on like, well, I won't wolf custom gear. They take everybody's money, you know, but there's a reason for why that is so big here. Yeah. Because you cannot go off with now. You get eastern part of North Carolina. You can't. It's flat, but if you're hunting the Appalachian mountains, like anywhere from up to the south end of Ohio, all the way down to Georgia, dude, you better go because if you think, man, it's a south wind. There's no way I can hunt. I've learned since I've started mobile hunting because I mean, I really ain't been hunting that long. But as soon as I'm about the same amount of time, you ain't got any. But whenever I learned mobile hunting, I started seeing more deer because that fine tuning to the wind cause like you could have an Northwest wind is going to be prime today. You get to your spot and it's a east southeast shit. Yeah. All right. Now I'm here everywhere I want to be. Now I need to set my stand up to where the deer you think they're going to come from. And I'm telling you right now, I have seen more deer fine tuning once I get to the spot than I ever would. If I set in a permanent stand, I can hang and bang all the time. Well, see, I've laughed at people and I've been very guilty of laughing at people making fun of people of this whole fad of mobile hunting, the new fad of mobile hunting. But in a way, I've tried to take a different perspective of here and honestly, just the last few months of, you know what, maybe it's people going back to the roots of hunting and what that's what that's what hunting was like you had an old baker climber or you took a two by four with you and you you try to man handle yourself up into a tree and you stand on a two by four. Yeah. That's that's the way that people grew up hunting. And then I'm like, oh, everybody's going these saddles and everybody thinks he's paying seven hundred dollars for a mobile hunt and set up and I just laugh at him. I'm like, well, hold on a minute. We take a different perspective to this, you know, maybe it's going back to the roots. If you really want to go about the risk, get rid of all social media, get rid of your trail cameras, whatever, then go shoot whatever makes you happy. Whenever we can get to that point, that's whenever I think hunting as an industry, hunting as a cons, whatever you want to look at it. Yeah, if you can get back to that point, that's when people will start truly being happy with hunting again. And that's when we will grow the hunting industry or hunt everybody hunting. It's hard, man. It is it's it's hard because it's such a there's a lot of money involved in this. And it's kind of hard to slow that down. I think the individual person has to do it. You know, you got to do what makes you happy. Like, you know, Corey might not run trail cameras next year because he wants to surprise. I might run them, but I might not run on on food or bait or food plots. I run them on scrapes. Yeah, I did do this year. Yeah, just put them on scrapes. I had them on a food source early, but then I just started moving on the scrapes. And I mean, the amount of different bucks that was showing up just because like I could get a thousand pictures of nose in a couple of spikes and a two and a half year old buck on this bait pile on my food plot, or I can boots on the ground and go find a scrape on the back 40 of this property and see 10 bucks that I didn't even know existed on that property. Corey, I'm going to challenge you. What if you take all of those trail cameras out of that piece of public? Do you think that then you'd start sitting there because you would maybe change? You would change something because you don't know what's there when they're showing up. What wins there there? Maybe you would just put a tree stand on your back and just go start walking. It's like, Oh, this, let's go come on out here. Do you think it would change your perspective? I mean, you've hunted it through you or something's something's not happening. So what I've come to the conclusion at for about this piece of public is number one, it's true mountain hunting. No, you're at Laurel's, Laurel's, Laurel's, Laurel's. It's just endless amount of bed and opportunity. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, you know, that's the biggest challenge for me. You know, you take your private pieces, you know, average 50 to 100 acres. You know where the deer are bedding. You know where you need to be. You know, you got to hunt the fringes. You know, the windows of opportunity that you're most successful on those pieces. Absolutely. Go at Mike a little closer to you there. And for some reason, like, when it gets to that angle, it gives me some static. I'll be able to edit that static out to you, but just pull it to you. Just pull the mic to you. And talk into the, like, where the white thing is on the front of the mic. Oh, we learned rookie rookie right here. Well, hey, you came in like literally toward the last year. So it's not. Yeah. He was after shooting squirrels and shit while we were in here podcast. And I'm like, and that finally takes them and say, get your app. No is a, this is the second full season of running cameras. Just got done running cameras on this piece. I have narrowed down some windows for open a weekend that has been solidified. There is an opportunity to be successful there. So I'm 100% all in on that this year. I found a great pocket and I stayed out of it this year. Okay. My intent was to hunt my private pieces until it was gun season and it was prime time for the mountains because the road up there is a little bit different. It's a bit lighter. Yeah. Yeah. So I've got it, you know, if closer to December, if you want a prime time there, Thanksgiving to probably about the December 5th, December 8th, that's when you want to be in there. And that's what I was planning on doing this year. But I tagged out this year, my, I'm challenging myself. I'm not running any, like I'll run them for my dad. Okay. Because I want him to still be successful on the private piece because we have money invested in it. No, absolutely. And there's actually a really nice book that I want to get him. But regardless of that, I'm not going to run any cameras on our private pieces. I don't want any. I don't, I don't need no confusion, you know, no temptations. I want, I literally, I'm dedicating this next season. I'm, I might eat tags. I don't care. So what? I, I, I, do you have your lifetime license? You have your lifetime license and your lifetime license. So you get to hunt for free anyway. So I thought, yeah, you just go. So, and I, and I truly think has come to the point with this, these, you know, us know a lot of podcasts with the mountain. And this is truly mountainous terrain. And I've become obsessed with it just because I hate felling. And I think that's my baseball background, me and Jordan. But I'm going to go in it and I'm going to approach it from start to finish. And I'm, I'm literally dedicating it. Now my daughter does play some soccer. So I do have to do the dad duties with it to every Saturday for five weeks. I get it. I was pissed about it every morning Saturday morning. My wife says, well, sign, let's sign bullet for soccer. I'm like, he don't even like running. And it's, it's going to be during the week. Like he's the only kid I've ever met that doesn't like a run. And, and then here's you. Let's sign him up for soccer. Okay. When does it start? Middle of September? I'm like, yeah. That's, that's, that's the one that gets you faithfully. I killed the second weekend, you know, but whatever. But you know, when, when I do have to do my daddy duty, I will probably, you know, if, if you don't know your spots by now on private, you know, then being so small, I can sneak in there, you know, you say your games at 10, I can sneak in there for a morning hunt. And I'm also, dude, I'm telling you, I'm, I like blood. Yeah, I can tell, yeah, I can tell. So I love what you just did, whatever you had to show it all for before. Yeah. He's not look at this blood. But I'm highly, I highly believe with, with deer hunt is repetitions. Absolutely. You cannot go a season. You cannot go a season and not take an opportunity at a mature dough. You know, you need risk hammering everything. Oh, you have to get me started on those hushed him. I have never killed the man. We killed. All right. So I had a giant showing 135 11 pointer every morning morning. And I went to to my buddies. I was an army of one of them. We killed three dose with him. I was instead in Tristan, one of them. We both shot one. I said, don't even go in there in the morning. I said, don't, I said, you'll kill him at even I said, don't even go in there in the morning, sleep in, go eat breakfast. And he calls me at like eight o'clock in the morning. So well, we just shot three dose. And I'm like, dude, it's open in days. And you're stuck to this day to this day from that morning. I'm tagged out on those normally by the second or third week of September. Oh, I'm walking some dough, speaking Corey's language now. I don't share those until I killed a buck at least. No, first big dough walks out open the morning. She's dead. I'm telling you, dead when it and, you know, every situation is different. But, you know, since I've grown up and I've hunted a long time and I've seen everything progress, but I tell you what, if you can get the pressure off, I don't care if it's a nanny. I don't care if it's a buck. Get it off, get it off your chest. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. But now 135 is a little different. I've no, I personally have. I'll show you some painters here be like, I hate you. It was like it's like a hero of times, like a row of times. He was a mainframe 10 pointer, 21 inches wide. You killed the doughs at that spot. Yes. Out of the tree. I may have probably hunted somewhere else that morning. You want to know the worst part of this whole situation. Hey, run it out. I didn't see the deer cause the dough that I shot, I cranked her. I mean, she was dead with him. I'm so happy about this. I'm not. No, it sucks to look back on now because I haven't seen this deer since. Oh, now he might have been, he might have been that he's, he said the taxi. So it's sitting on somebody's wall taking whoever went to cheat. Like this deer was not never showed up and all of a sudden, boom, he's here. Well, my buddy was tracking his dough and she ran quite a bit further than mine. Yeah. And he found her and he heard something behind him and he stood up and there he stood 30 yards away. Just, there he is. And I'm like, you as like, where was your bow at? And he's like, I left it up at the tree. And I'm like, why? Yeah. Why? Now you know how I feel. Whenever you tell me this story that you shoot through, don't even don't even pull of it because I can hunt the same spot. And I'm like, I'm forbidding you from hunting there tomorrow morning. And he runs like 20 deer out, and I walk in, runs the deer out. And there's like 50 sets. That's an exaggeration. But I mean, it's nothing but just a row of eyeballs. And I'm like, stand, I'm going to go see it. Something's going to die this seat and come just mad. Yeah. At that point, the first day of the walk, tell you that's what it was for two those came in. I mean, I was like, I wasn't going to shoot them to begin with. We're asking for one of them. Just looked up and I'm like, okay, how you below you go. Yeah, that's what went through my head. And I mean, soon she locked eyes with me and I'm like, you're dead. Grab my bow. She kind of circled back. You're starting to pin back. I draw back and then I'm like, I look at my bum. I'm like, what are you doing? Because there's another dough and she was freaking out. And I'm like, three, two, and then like we both shot at the same time. I mind as I watched her fall down. His took off. I'm like, she's dead. Yeah. And to enough, I went and got mine. I called him and I had got my dough. He's like, I'm still in blood trail. I'll call you in a minute. Well, he calls me. He's like, you ain't gonna believe what just happened. What? And he said, that bug just stood up. And he was right there. And I'm like, yeah, he calls me. And I'm like, you've done that. So before we wrap this up, Corey, I want to hear the story of your biggest buck. You don't have to say what state you killed it in. The one you just killed, the one you just killed a couple of years ago, our last year, 2022 season or whatever. I want to hear the story of it. Because I mean, I know you're big on like finding finding and taking that challenge and go in there. You don't say what state you don't have to even say whether you kill it on public or private. I just want to hear hear that story because dude, okay, it's one of the largest eight pointers I've ever seen. Oh, of course. Yeah. It's one of the largest eight pointers I've ever seen. And when I got when you sent me the picture, I went, I lost money. He paid to kill that. I was like, he got tired. He got tired of hunting. I'm paying to kill a deer, but he did. I mean, obviously you didn't. So it was Ohio public. And again, just like any other public land situation is it's typically years takes takes a couple years. So we're actually and was we and was we in Ohio or Kentucky and then we got tired and then we come back to Ohio to scale. Freaking good. Can you just kick our ass? Yeah. So and we were in Kentucky scouting and we just did not see what we wanted to see. And you said, you know what, this is on the way home. We had a we had a buddy that said, hey, you know, I hunt this game land. There's a lot of animals there. And so we stopped and we're like, we might as well stop and scout on the way home. Stop scouted. We and we dropped some pins and we seen some stuff better than, you know, it just looked like a held deer. Okay. And so we went home and then I think after that point, we went back two more to if not three more times and scouted. Now, I know this is crazy, but I get lost a lot. Okay. And now it's not that it's I just I'm so hyper focused on what you're trying to do. The potential where you're going. I just get very, very in tune with what I'm doing. And I just start scouting and just go off start falling signs. I follow rugs. I follow scrapes and I'm pinning everything. And the biggest thing that I've learned the last few years and what I my personal my favorite way to kill a deer is just like Jordan killed the two deer that he killed this year is I like to mark every food tree that I find. Okay. Now this here's the biggest thing that I've learned is it's not a grove of trees. It's a tree. A tree. Yeah. A tree. You can have a hundred white oaks, but there's something about that one 20 year old wide oak that's about 14 inches across the stump and it's just hammered. Yes. And and I, you know, when I'm going through and I'm initially scouting a piece of public, that's that's what I'm doing. I'm marking every food tree in correlation to bedding and just in general, because I really don't know. Yeah. Until I sit, get back home and then you sit down and look at your map. What trends do I see? Yeah. Yeah. Regardless, long story short, that that that first year scouting it was March. That's my favorite month to put boots to the ground. Marked that tree. And then so we went up there and we hunted Tyler had success or other buddy. Yep. Yeah. He read us. He read the sign. And he made a and Corey helped it because Corey said, listen, I've seen deer using this area, one of y'all needs to be over here. Tyler went over there and me and Troy were hunting different areas. This is with the summits too. Yeah. I felt bad. I felt bad for these boys. Yeah. Those flowers. We're looking summit before we got in a saddle and this is too. This is two miles deep. Yeah. Got some. They hated life after about the second day with those summits. That was the first out of a cruiser now. Yeah. Dude, the cruiser saddle is I've had the opportunity. I have killed a lot of and I've never killed a deer out of myself. Oh my god, dude. I love it. I love hiding behind the street. I still have the lock on wind locker. So, well, yeah, I have. I have the OG. Yeah, I have the OG mobile setup. And it's all comfortable. Corey, he sometimes we're on a hybrid set where he does long wolf. Hey, and that is surprisingly effective. It is. He's like, I can sit this way and then I can sit this way. Like, and he runs that hybrid set and he does really well with it. I I've got my saddle to my liking fixed how I like it and I can sit all day and it does not bother me one bit. Some people at bothers, you know, get that hip, pinch and stuff like that. I got a trophy line and I had to fiddle with it from getting a big ass though. Well, and see now, you want to tell them about they make a new piece of 3D printing. Yeah, and you slide it up and you slide it up. We're going to get one of those actually this year, but I don't, you know, I don't get a lot of that. That cruiser with the expandable chamber really helps me a lot from my rear ends eyes. Yeah. And, you know, tethered makes that now. You can get the same thing intended. Yeah. Yeah. But they'll all go to that. Yeah, they're all going to go to that expandable chamber just because it's so versatile. But saddle, man, saddle is just it's awesome. You know, you know, but anyway, some store. Yeah, keep going. Yeah. All right. Well, you know, Tyler was successful that season. Had some had some good encounters on some areas that I wanted to originally go see it. And the is funny. So we got me and Tyler get off a little earlier than Jordan and his brother Troy. And we went up a day like a half a day early. So we went in airways, pulling cameras and all that stuff. And it just all this, this area, we went in and they're the open day. This is the, this is the year before. No, no. Yeah, this is the year before. We went in there before open weekend because open weekend is a blast in Ohio. Oh, God. That's so, oh my God. That's some, that's when you'll see the most deer. Yes. And both of us. So this is your one on this piece of property. And we went up over the, the day before opener. And I jumped, I got back this area to chip, pull a camera. And sure enough, I come over the rise and do there's just three Monarchs. I really, yes, sir. And I said, okay, I mean, I'm probably just bugging this spot up a little bit, but they'll be back. Mm hmm. Absolutely. So anyway, it's the first time they've been bumped did that. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And when I seen that, I said, oh, the scouting's paid off. We're in, we're in the area. Now we just got to put everything together. But Monarchs, we're talking 160, 170 class. Yeah. And, and we're not, I mean, Cory's seen a lot of big deer. We've seen a lot of big, these are, and what he likes to describe to us, we're talking 20 inch wide-type animals. Yeah, big, big, big, big. These were, these were what you go out west to hunt. Yeah. All either three of them would have been more than happy to come up with me. But, you know, we hunted that season. I had two, two encounters, nothing crazy, 115 to 120 is just unlucky. Yeah. But Tyler, Tyler was successful that season. We elected to go back the next year, and we, we did the same process again, and we, we broke it down. But the, the very next year, of course, just like public land, and any season, private, public, the, the conditions that you're dealt completely changed, completely changed. So year two going into this, we had to completely change, you know, the, the original food trees, there was no acron drop. Yeah. The, the abundance of acrons were not there. Was that 21? Yeah. No, no, this is 22, this is 22. Yeah. First year there was 21 and then 22. But yeah, that's right. Cause we was up there at the same time. Yeah. I think some, for some reason it's static and that's fine. Well, I can get that added to that out. Pull it, pull it this way. For some reason, like, when you get it that way, oh, yeah, stops. And then then pull the whole mic up. I say we've had a few issues with that mic this, this time. Okay. I don't, you got to pray for it. You got to sit there, you got to look at it, tap on the top of it. Just, just hell with it. Just keep on talking. Yeah, you're good. Well, you know, y'all, you and Tyler, you, I wasn't able to go up as much that early, but, but him and, him and Corey went, uh, sorry, they went back up and, and it was a huge drought that year at Ohio. Yeah. The drought was bad, bad. Yeah. Yeah. I was terrible in 2022. Oh, it was so bad. It was so bad that, you know, later on, me and Tyler went back because Corey had tagged out. There was no deer on public. We couldn't know where, nowhere. We couldn't find the creatures were dry. There was no sign. This is November. We were like, me and Tyler said, we're screwed. Like, we were screwed. I mean, I, we had buddies that were in Ohio. And I was there. I was there in 2022. Yeah. You were there for two weeks and he was struggling. Our other buddies that were up our hunt in public was struggling. And I was coming back from Illinois, I was struggling on private. It was bad. I was struggling on private. But that helped your situation because of what, what you found. So you go ahead and yeah. Yeah. So the, the, the, what made that situation, that was the year of EHD in Ohio to be too. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that was, that was EHD year. So we went up there, we pulled our cameras and nothing, not one shooter, not one shooter on some of these primaries that we already had one year invested in. And we'd already went back up there, you know, that previous march. Well, we went up here for the opener, nothing, nothing at all. We hunted day one. We seen some deer, just, just didn't get the vibe that something was wrong. Yeah. Okay. Well, we, we, we, me and Tyler text each other and we was like, all right, we, we need to scout. So we started scouting immediately after the very first opening morning, started scouting. There's no oaks, zero oaks, there's no red oaks, there's no white oaks. And there's, here's the biggest one. There's no water. Yeah. Zero water. There's creaks running through this place. I never knew how much that actually mattered. Yeah. I think I'd fuck it. They get water from eating grass. Yeah. Absolutely. But they don't get enough versus seeing them. Yeah, exactly. That was something that I learned this year was how much moisture affected their noses. Yes. And I mean, if you got it and it's real dry, dry like it's being, you won't get smelled. Yeah. Well, then, I mean, it's just harder to find them because, I mean, they're not out cruising smelling around for those or whatever, whatever time of year it is. It makes some big fucking awesome. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. But, uh, open the morning afternoon, we, we scouted and I found a couple red oaks. I had what that would, that were falling. And I found a couple puddles, uh, back on this, back corner of this game line and I went and sat it and actually ended up seeing seven deer. Yeah. Seeing, uh, two small bucks in a seven pointer come right under me. Pretty nice little buck. Great encounter had deer all around me killable. You know, I said, okay, good. This is good. Well, then the next morning, um, we, I can't remember. I think we slept in because we was like, we need to keep scouting. Yeah. Yeah. Just thank you. How about it? How about this? Just take your headphones off and talk into it and you won't hear it. So it won't interrupt you. Just keep going, keep talking. Um, so we got, uh, we got up day two and we elected to, uh, keep scouting. We kept scouting and we ended up finding not very much sign, but Tyler ended up finding a fresh cornfield on this piece of public. So Tyler's like, I'm hunting here. There's got to be deer. Yeah. So I said, okay. Well, that, that's good. And I just, I kept, honestly, going into afternoon of day number two, I had no expectations. I still haven't found a spot that I thought that was reliable. Yeah. Put my stand on my back just like you do on public land, you just keep taking off and hoping and praying you finally find it. Yeah. Well, this is where everything circles back to that first March. Mm hmm. Okay. When I go into a piece of public, I mark everything I can find. Well, I was going back to this back corner. I looked on on X and I said, I haven't been down in this spot. I said, I marked a food tree down there. I said, I need to go check it. Yeah. I said, at this point, I have nothing to lose. I haven't found water, haven't found a lot of fresh scat, haven't found no acres. Yeah. Walk down there. And this was a crazy thing because it's an easterly wind that it was, it was weird. We had a lot of easterly winds these last few years. Yeah. I agree. I agree. But it was one of them odd ball winds, easterly winds. And I got down to this, this set and it was in a big bowl system. I had two ridges, you know, on the, let's say that big west, that'd be on north and south of me. There's two ridge points. And we know they had bedded there the previous muzzleloader season. Yeah. I jumped some deer there. So I knew there was bed in there, but when I checked this oak tree, I looked down and I, I mean, there was wide oak caps. Yeah. I seen some, some fresh leaves was turned up and I, and I, and I seen some scat, a little bit of scat there. But then part of them, then my gut said, no, you need to stay put. Yeah. This is the best thing you've seen. Don't go past this. And so at this point, this is, and this is where I started developing the hybrid, the hybrid set on some of my situations because in this situation, the saddle, I stuck out like a sore thumb. There was no cover in the, the only tree that I could hunt. Yeah. It was about 15, 20 mile an hour winds. I really needed that, that lock on set. But regardless of that, I end up sitting there and I just had got set down, looked over to my left. Well, there's that seven pour. I saw the night prior. Yeah. He was bedded down. Had no idea I got there. Yeah. That wind cover was perfect. Yeah. So he kind of said that's a great feeling. Yeah. That is a great feeling. It's a great feeling. It was, and it was awesome. But in, in this situation, and I've learned a little bit more since than this, the wind, that was 15, 20 miles an hour blowing straight from the east. I mean, it was perfect setup from where these deer were coming from. I was completely downwind of this, this big white oak tree. I mean, this is a gala tree. Yeah. Galaith. Yeah. But one of them ones that will produce for like two straight months, like you don't drop back here in for two strikes. Yeah. It was the only tree of my biggest buck out of a tree like that. Yeah. I mean, he hung in the dumb, the damn thing. I was 40 some foot up. Oh, it's in this tree, but I couldn't be a fan of 50 foot up in a tree. He really is like, I'm scared of heights, but I'll get 20 foot maturity. I climbed in. Right. Yeah. I had to get 40, 50 foot just to get the strap around my thing. Oh, my goodness. So I mean, killed almost 160 inch deer out of it now, gaining. Yeah. Shot about 25 yards. And I was aiming straight down. Yeah. Yeah. And it killed it. Now, again, it was 160 inch deer. Yeah. Well, that's, that's monarch right there to sail. Yeah. That's why I go out west and try to kill one bigger, and it ain't gonna happen, but I'm gonna keep trying. We're doing, so you already killed your monarch in North Carolina. We're leaving the state to go see that. You got it though. The story, the story here, ain't even a deer that was 160, you know, you can go on it. But it's a big eight pointer. That's a man. It's a guy and a killer boy. It's a pointer. Listen, when you think of eight pointer, I'm going to have him plug his Instagram so you can go see this deer. It's a, it's a giant eight pointer. But, but you didn't know what it was. I had, and this is the coolest thing. I had no idea what it was. But anyway, you know, this is early today. This is two thirty three o'clock. I mean, we sat there five hours, you know, till dark, and I had the, that seven pointer from the night prior in there, he was eating. He came straight to the food tree right under me. I watched him for an hour. Yeah. Well, then here come another buck, another seven pointer, Reinky, deep dude, but watched him and just endless. Well, had a couple deer come up from a cut over slash ridge to my, to my, that was my south, and they come in, come straight to the food tree. I said, this is it. This is the tree. This is where I'm sitting the next few days. At that point, I realized what I'd found. Yeah. Well, I kept sitting there, and all those deer end up finally eased off and left. And I finally got to relax because I didn't move, didn't have a lot of cover on the set except for the tree itself. And it was probably 30 minutes before dark, all of a sudden I looked up on that bed and point that I had found the previous muzzle loader season. And I was like, I figured that's the direction that would come from. Well, they come down and there was one little bitty water hole. I didn't know it at the time, but after I killed this deer, I went down and looked. There was one little water hole. Yeah. I mean, just all these doves come down the hill, hit it, and then they come up with the food tree. I said five to six doves in front of me. The bucks had already eased off from a couple hours earlier, but all of a sudden these deer, and this is the dangest thing I don't, I do not understand. I still don't, I don't think I ever will. But all these deer right, and this is crunch time. This is the last few minutes illegal. It's like you're holding your bow. Yeah, I'm holding my bow. I'm ready. And then suddenly these deer all picked their heads up from eating these white oaks and whipped their head back up the ridge. And I could just hear something just thrashing down through there. And this deer coming from rotting to this, this white oak did not stop, did not stop and look, smell, nothing come straight into this tree and started just eating white oaks. At this point, I, all I could see was a frame. This, again, this is a lie. This is do or die. Yeah. That deer come up 18 yards. I had the courses to my weak side. Yeah. I settle. Yeah. So I'm sitting there and you know, you're picking your bow up and over. Yeah. Yeah. Trying to get ready. And I rushed a shot. I mean, I rushed a shot. I was so excited. I rushed a shot and I, and I hit this deer and I'm shooting swagger broad head, 70 pound Hoyt or X one. And I hear just the awful is just white. And I sound like you hit way, I'll air there almost. No, no, no. And I see my aluminum. And I was like, I hit that deer square in the shoulder. Call Tyler told him what happened. Jordan. Were you out there yet? No. Okay. That was my, I think Jasper's birthday. Yeah. Yeah. You weren't up there. Yeah. That's right. My boy. I was up there. You were. I was up there. I wasn't far from you. I was up there. And Corey Calder texted me. I think he called me and he said, I just shot one. I don't know what it is. He had a really wide frame. He said, he's probably, he said, he's, you know, his wide frame, probably 120 inch deer, but a good deer, like a good, like no doubter. And I said, you did not say a hunt. You did not think that was 120 inch deer. Yeah. No, I did. And he said, this was crunch time, man. I had no idea. I had a fucking love it. He said, he was also a couple of it. He said, he was a no doubter. Cause how wide he was. He said, he was at least, he was at least 17 inches wide. That's kind of our, he's outside of ziers. He said, they said, yeah. And he said, he was a no doubt or shoot on public. I said, hell yeah. I mean, I was in the weekend. And, and so, yeah, you go ahead, just your story. But it's so immediate. Jordan, thank you so much. But after the shot, you know, just having some years under my belt, I realized I said, I hit that deer in the shoulder. I said, I'm just, I pulled my set. I got out of there. Man, Tyler, and met up with some other buddies that were actually there. I told them the story. And so we ended up going to McDonald's to eat, you know, at this point, you know, I shot the deer. We went to eat and then it takes 45 minutes to get back in there. So at this point, it's been three hours. Yeah. Okay. So we get back in there, go to my out, back out. Absolutely. Absolutely. And got back to the spot, found the illuminant and at the initial point of impact, nothing. The illuminant where he broke the air off, where I hit him in the shoulder was probably 30 hours from initial impact. There was no blood. At that moment, heart sank, heart sank. Okay. Well, again, just to remind the story, you know, the winds coming from the east to 15, 20 miles an hour. Well, I heard that deer crash before I left. Like I heard a crashing noise. Yeah. But still that sound of it hitting the shoulder, that's where it left me skeptical. Yeah. You weren't worried about that crash at that point. At that point, I was not worried about it. I was too nervous about the shot placement. Well, we started tracking the deer. We never found blood, never found blood. And I told Tyler, so what this point buddy, I said, the only thing we can do, he's trying to keep me calm because I'm losing it. Yeah. He said, I said, all we can do is go in the direction of where I seen him run. So we went up there, we started making circles, got on that bed and points. I figured he'd run back to the bed and nothing. Well, Tyler just started making circles and he at this point, we're a couple hundred yards away. And I said, I need to go down this finger, something to my gut. So I need to go down this finger. There's a bunch of green brier down there. And there's a, there's a hard pine transition right there, pine, pine grove started going down through there. And all of a sudden, I seen white. No, I shined my life and found any blood, zero blood to this point, zero blood. I seen a white belly. I started, I mean, I started you lost your mind. I started losing. I said, T.P. And here he come, just running off. You say that little football will come running down that hill, buddy. So, you know, we walked down the hill and, you know, sure enough, he's dead as a door nail. That deer had been dead. He died immediately. That crash you heard about him dying. That was him. How far from were you shouting to where he's laying? It was the funny part. So this is where the wind come in the factor. So the winds coming from the east to the, to the west. And I finally found the deer where it was. The, the crazy thing is that deer didn't run where exactly where I thought he actually scurried the edge of that finger and it was going to loop around the end of it. Yeah. To go back up and over. Say he didn't make it far. He didn't make it far. This was a hundred, 120 yards. Oh, yeah. I could see my aluminum glowing from where that deer landed or where he died. No shit. Yep. Yep. And then it's funny. I, and this is me and this is, and I should be ecstatic at this point, right? Yeah. I didn't know what I killed. The total gr, like he grew. I don't shoot. You don't shoot along there. You know how many times Cody's called me? I've shot a boner and it was like a hundred and eight boner. Yeah. No, this is Illinois. Same year, 22. I shot one. I mean, it was the minute of League a lot. I seen a split brow in a heavy beam. Yeah. I've been out there for 11 days. You was stunting. He's dead. And I mean, he came under me. I recorded in a way, he put it on that back rib, came out of his front shoulder. I didn't know what the hell I'd just, he shot me. I was walking in. I was walking in. Now he's an hour behind me, you know, and then when I was in Ohio, he shot one. He's like, I just stumped one. I'm like, huh? And I was like, and I looked at sons. I look at our son, rising and I was like, okay. And I'm like, well, take an hour off of that. That's where he's at. It should be around the same time. 640 something. I mean, gray lot. Yeah. I mean, it is the minute of legal. Hell man. And he comes under me. Under me. I'm watching him to the platform. I stand J hooks around at 14 yards and crank him. Oh boy. And he runs off. There's some stomach matter. And I knew I hit him back because he's pulling away. But I backed out. And I had some help coming from some guys that I met in camp. And whenever I got up to him, I said, Oh shit. Yeah. He told me the same thing, like what you told. Jessica is a good friend. Yeah. He's good. And I mean, dude, I'm he was coming home that day. He was supposed to come home that day, but he went that morning. Oh boy. Yeah. But every time I go to Illinois, it's the last day. Yeah. The I'll go. Obviously. It's the last day because you're by yourself and you shouldn't like you. Yeah. I got here Halloween day up. I don't leave in the 15. I'm gonna kill him out of the 14th. That last last day. Yeah. Yeah. So whenever you grabbed him and you picked him up. Oh man. But this is the thing. This is before I started actually, and this is me being me. Why? You know, I wanted to know like, where's the blood trail? I had to I backtrack this deer. I know you. That's a stupid aim to celebrate. No, I get it. I get it. I had to back trail the blood trail. That's how you learn. Where did it where did he go? But what it was is the way the way the wind where I heard the crash, the wind had blown the sound up the ridge. So it sounded to the right. It was more high. Yeah. Yeah. So that's how that we got off on the blood trail. But he delivered it just wrapped around the end of the finger. Was there a blood on the ground though? Yeah, if you backtrack to how far did you did it? From when you started backtracking, obviously to the dead deer going back to your stand. How far did you track the blood back? I went about 40 yards and then you were like, it was good solid long, you know, but not long blood. This is the thing. I hit the there was good blood. There was bubbles in the blood, but this is the thing I got completely lucky. And this is where people can argue fix heads versus swackers. Yeah. Yeah. But I hit the I think it's the bronchial tube, the main the oxygen to the both, you know, both lungs, severed in half. Yeah. And that deer literally dude, he he was full of air when I went to gut him. Oh, I can imagine. Second, I cut into that cavity. Do it is what Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like you can hit him for like, that's the reason why you see some people. They'll shoot him in the front of the shoulder or the leg. They will actually hit him dead in the leg. That's how I killed Brutus and Ohio. I shot him dead in the leg during 50 yards and died. Yeah. Never touched the heart and never touched the lungs but hit that bronchial tube. Hit that bronchial blade like a stuck hog now, but it was a low hit though. That was low. That's the reason why blood like you did. But you know, subpar hit, swackers, unfortunately, they've saved me several times at this point. But I've had I keep having good results with them. Yeah. But finally, you know, backtrack the the deer got back to the deer and finally we start trying to let it all sink in. Then I start getting I start shaking again. You know, you know how it is. But it was it was a very epic deer going to be very hard to top. But what did you what did what do you finish out at? I know you take that. I had him taped out. He was one fit little 153. As a slit, not a single point. No kickers. Clean eight pointer. That's what the reason sir might have that was that that would net 153 what he grows. Well, there, excuse me, didn't listen, that's it. One fifty three nets are for fishing. I don't give a shit about his net score. Excuse me. Great. Great. No, his green score was 153. Yeah. His green net was 149. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm going to say that no, sir, for fishing for inches of the double. I don't give a shit about deduction, but the score at this point was irrelevant. It was the mass of this is unbelievable. It's unbelievable. And I'm like, I heard this like on Mark Raff's podcast literally just happened. Yeah. Mass don't show time length. No, it don't show beam length mass. It sucks. Same thing with Jordan's deer this year. Yeah, trail camera and the trail cameras and multiple. I don't care if it's a cheap muddy or a really or a conics or a blast. Yeah. It distorts mass mass show night time picture. We'll make a deer look so spinly. Yeah. Well, and and so, of course, I get a picture. He obviously get the picture of the night and I'm like, holy moly, dude. It's a giant. I mean, it's and then the next day, like I didn't get, they didn't make mouthless. Watch the sun come up because it took them all night to get it out. But the next day, I get a picture of, you know, the deer's horn and a bush light can and the bush light a bush. But the, but the, but the, but the, the horn is bigger than the bush light can. Yeah. And I'm not joking. Like it was seven inch base or something like that. No, it wasn't that big out there. It's just so just and this is how, this is how scores, you know, it is cool to look back at the numbers, but I don't remember that, but I can tell you the story. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's right. There is the epitome of deer hunting. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I get to the inches and the, the size of the basis of the title. Like, if I tell you what I can, I can tell you that story right now. Well, so the only reason why I ever asked about a store is to put into perspective how big this deer really can tell you I shot a big eight pointer. You could tell me you shot a big eight pointer. Yeah. But when you say, oh, it's over 150 inch eight pointer. That's how big a boy. Oh, shit. Well, and it's like, you know, for, for perspective, like his, it's just unreal. It's like the deer I killed this year. I mean, you know, it's 140 inch eight points a big eight pointer. Yeah, John and the inch eight pointer. No, 130 is a big. But the, the, you know, like the deer I got this year, like for the people less in perspective, he's, he's over 140 inch eight points. Oh, there's no doubt. Yeah. And, and it was Carolina and North Carolina. But I killed an eight pointer last year that I thought was a the King eight is what I named him. And he went 128. Yeah. And then you killed almost, it's almost identical. Yeah, they sure had a little bit hate, a little bit heavier than mine. Yeah. And it went 132 and those are big eight pointer. Oh, yeah. And those are big eight. Hey, I killed 132 inch seven pointer. That was what was cool. The big four deer. Yeah. Now I got lucky on that one. It's just so, it's just so, you know, it's just so cool. Um, because you take a deer like that, I don't think like the deer he killed and the deer I killed this year, there's only two, there's only one way to kill those deer. Like if I went in there this year and me and him talked about this in depth, if I went in there and I put a trail came out and I threw corn out and I, there's no, I would have scared every deer off in the camp. Oh, absolutely. And there's a reason that the private land that's, you know, pretty, pretty, not not that far away from where he killed this deer. There's a reason that deer was in daylight on public. Mm hmm. Nobody went in there. Nobody's in there. Nobody's in there. You're not going there, throwing out a corn pile and checking cameras every, every week and first time in you killed the deer. And there's, I mean, I know years weren't first time in, but the first time you said, I'm going to kill that deer now. Yeah, like the, like the, like there's sits where you're like, okay, you done your homework. Yeah, did your homework. There's two observations. There was two observations and then I went to kill. Absolutely. And it's just, I think they're like, we're learning, the thing is the learning curve. It's got, it's kind of, it's, it's, it's like lit a fire. It's like, you keep doing this, you keep seeing big deer. Well, what, what, what kind of really city? I don't fix it. Well, just keep going. And, and the biggest thing is, there's like, Corey told me one time and I take this to the bank. Don't be scared of this. So if you blow them out, if you blow them out, what's the worst they can have? And he's going to show it back in the, your, your found him once. You found him once. We found him once. But here's, here's the, here's the key to the, to that stage. Pull it up. There's a little white thing on that miker. Look at that. Look at that little white thing on the front of it and just talk right to it. So the, the key to this is it's not, not to be scared to, to spook your deer, but you had, you can't be scared to get in there, but just in Jordan taught me this, hunting the windows. When you have a October cold front and you know where deer is relatively at, you best be getting in there. Because more than likely he's going to daylight. Yeah. If you're in that, if you're in that pocket, yeah, I have a truck, camera pictures from year to year to year, like November 26, he showed up last year. And then November 25th, he showed up year before. Yeah. Well, not a hundred November 22nd to the 27th. Everybody's like, well, the rut's coming. I need to wait. Well, you don't know where that bucks wind up. I hit the rut. This is the window. That buck is building up. If he's eating a crunzer, you got him patting on a food source. That cold front is going to get him on his feet. You get in there. Like you said, I don't get to sit on the ground or a saddle, get in there. Well, so like you said at this minute ago, my favorite season is the Ohio Lake Muslor. Oh, I'm telling you. This is open weekend. I'm telling you. But if you know where the food's at, yeah, you'll, you'll see every deer in the country. I seen deer like crazy this past Ohio Muslor. And that's, that's a story for a whole nother. But on public land, we have seen some crazy deer in my village, but sucks. I hate it. You think about what, you know, when's everybody going to take you get typically the average hunter? When are they taking the November? When are they taking their vacation? Yeah, first and second. If you're lucky, if you've got a good wife, once you go let you take your one way, you know, absolutely. You do your math. I mean, the woods is open. You got the class. I don't know if you've ever listened to me in their episodes. I'm sure you can't kill books if your wife sucks. You got a good wife. They sacrifice just as much. We talked about this and you know, they go through a lot. I had a wife on a podcast that's getting ready to launch. Yeah. And in like her, like her struggles, what she does with it. Yeah. Absolutely. It's going to be good because like she, she spoke about like, hey, you know, you take, I mean, I think last year I took almost five weeks and for something to do with hunting this year, it's going to be closer to seven or eight weeks. And, and it's, it's kind of like one of the deals like she, she explains on there like, Hey, you don't get it. I have a five, we have a five year old now and a two year old now and like what we got to deal with. And so it was a, it was a great podcast, but I'm not getting all in. Here's, here's one we'll do. We're getting ready to wrap this up because we've been doing it for about two, a little over two hours now. Yeah. Yeah. It's easy to talk a long ways. Is there anything that you guys want to cover, anything that controversial? I don't give a shift. It's a contraband. Like, man, I wish I could just tell everybody about this. They, they should know this. Is there anything like that that you can think of that you want to cover? Um, I don't know. I tell you what, I will say this. I'm just, I'm scared a little bit with deer. I want to keep it deer hunting. I'm scared a little bit with deer hunting that I want my son to have an opportunity to deer hunt. And, but I want him to have an opportunity to, to experience deer hunting in a, in an organic, unique way. And I don't want him to, or it's going, I don't want him to constantly compare yourself to, to, to the world because it's not fair to grow up like that. And it, it, it, it will push him to not like hunting if he is, if he's constantly comparing himself. Yeah. And, and I'm worried that he, he, he, he, he doesn't going to get priced out of hunting. As long as we got private ground, he'll get to hunt on our private ground. But as far as him experiencing some of the things that me and Corey have got to experience, getting to go out of state, I'm scared and like that. I mean, it's not going to be okay. Like I'm more, I'm making preparations now that I'm planning for him so that if he wants to go hunt, that he's going to have an opportunity. But what if like there's kids out there that don't have dads like that? And I'm, and I'm scared. I'm scared that the technology at some point, and I use cell cameras to make that clear. I use cell camera. But I'm scared that the technology that we have now is so good that it's, it's changing hunting very quickly. It's going to start being outlawed. It's going to start being, and I don't know if that's a bad thing. I don't know. I think that's, I wish they would ban baiting. I wish they would ban cameras. I wish they would ban rifle hunting in North Carolina. I wish we could have those counties like West Virginia does. So I'm both hunting only counties. I'm going to go that far. I don't know if I'm going to go that far because rifle hunting is a part of tradition in the south. Yeah. I think, I just said, I guess it should show in it. Yeah. Look, are we still in the western or northwest? Northwest, Northwest. So y'all have got the same because I live up in Sparta. Yeah. So, yeah, it's very similar. It's a muzzle odor from the 6th of November, and then season rest season. I think they just, well, like December 15th, just cut it off, you know, or something. I wish that they would take muzzle order, make the week of Thanksgiving, muzzle odor. And then the, if you want to do two weeks of muzzle odor, whatever, and then in December is when gun starts. Well, and I'm just, man, it's like I said, I like, it's not the, the season's, it's just, I'm worried that our technology is getting so good and we were allowing it so heavy. And we talk, mean, we're talking about this all the time, and you can, you can talk about cell cameras, you can talk about drones, you can talk about whatever you want to talk about, we're getting really good to make it easy, and not easy, but easier to find deer. Absolutely. Big deer. And the, the defense mechanisms for those deer have not changed because they're, they're animals, they're going to be the same as they were 100 years ago. Yeah. But our, our offensive mechanisms have got better. Yeah. Because here's something that, you know, they just sparked in my brain. All right. So there's a lot of states that are outlawing use of drones, just to find deer. But think about how many people have went and bought one with a thermal on it, and they run it, not to see where the deer's bedded up at. And, and that, that was, you could run them in the middle of the day and it was still, and it scares me. That buck, like, if, if I had a drone, I don't have a chance. If I had a drone eight to nine years ago, and listen, I want you to recover your deer, use a dog, if you can use a drone, but I'm worried that it, you know, I got a buck that's like, Yogi, he bed in the same spot because he was invincible in that spot. Well, hell, if I knew he was there, like, I didn't know he was there. I know he bedded there until he died, and I backtracked it. I'm, I'm worried that what, which, which way are we going with it? And I'm, I want, I want my son that, that get woodsmanship. Yeah. Yeah, the woodsmanship is, I think that's on the line, and I'm worried about it. So my experience with this is whenever I go out and hunt public in Illinois, I go out there every year and I run into a bunch of different people and sometimes running the same guys. But it seems to me that they just don't know what they're looking for. They're just going off of what somebody said or the trail camera saying what the trail cameras are saying or blame them. I don't think it's their fault. And I tell you, even, even this year, and this is time and time again, and this is on private pieces, because I didn't get to hunt the public this year like I wanted to, because I had another had with me and Jordan, both had our second child. Yeah. So this year, we were playing good daddy. We're going to stay in state, but how many instances over the years, these trail cameras, and that's what people bank off of, is sometimes you just got to hunt. Yeah. You have to hunt, because I got this one river property, and there's a lot of deer on the agar river. Yeah. But I sat there and do not a deer went in front of me and my cameras. Yeah. You know, I witnessed it, but I seen seven to eight deer. Yeah. You don't go hunt. Well, I mean, that's like mine this earlier this year, it was of late September, like around the 23rd to the 25th. I have a food plot that I just put in on the property that I'm hunting. And I had a pretty good eight pointer showing up. He was mature. He wasn't a high scorned deer, but he had everything. I mean, he had long beams, good tines, but I'll wreck the seal boys when you're great. What I learned by my cameras, because me and Jordan talked about this too. Well, I had another eight pointer just as big as him, maybe even a higher scoring deer. Yeah. He came out of the laurel thicket and was eating acres that paralleled my food plot. And he never came into the food plot. He acted like he was going to. Something boogered him up on the fence line. It's right next to a cattle farm. So like cows could have been on the fence. It's hard to say what it was that boogered him up, but he was coming. He came out of laurels pretty much directly to my left. I mean, you won't talk about coming out at my nine o'clock. I mean, that's where he came from. Well, whenever he came out, he was feeding up and down this ridge covered in oaks. And he was acting like he's going to hit the food plot. And then he circled back and he went right back to the laurels and my game camera would have never have seen that deer. Yeah. Yeah. I know it's it's it's trail cameras are unique. I we use trail cameras more effectively now. That that's the biggest thing. But I don't know and that's what I'm gonna I don't have to say it. I guess I'm gonna contradict myself. I use them, but I'm worried that as I've learned to use them more effectively, that am I at what point do we as owners overstepped the boundary? Where is the line out to where we're using them too effectively? Yeah. But so that's I think that's the argument that people in professional bass fishing or having with Garmin life scope now. Yeah. I mean, that's what I'm saying like in sonar, you know, and honestly, you can just like, there's there's the fish right there. He's 45 foot in front of the boat just to the left right there and I can throw and I know it's a bass because I've been doing this for years and I know it's a bass. I can throw it right there. Oh, he's gonna bite. I mean, hell, one of the elite series. I don't know if anybody that listens this know much about elite series of bass fishing or anything like that. One of them was caught on with one of the elite series was on the floor of the lake that you don't catch them this way. But this guy won it because he figured out like, Hey, I can just go troll around and then find the fish and then catch that one solitary fish. Well, with these cameras in the way everything's going, I can go around until I find the spot and I can put my cell camera in there and I'm just going to sit back and wait till it sends me a picture of my phone and I'm going. Well, hell, is it? And the thing is now the cell cameras have live feed. It's like, you can turn the moment from your phone. Go to the club. Go to Lee and Tiffany's website. You can just sit there right now while we're podcasting right now. We can go on their website and just watch the deer that enters their feeders. And I'm no way trying to be because I I've got cell cameras. And so just because you have anything. But I'm part of the problem just like everybody else because they if they're used effectively, they can be really effective. Well, I know a guy that I made at a boat shop one day that killed a giant North Carolina deer. I mean high one forties. He had bought five or six trail cameras, which they were cell cameras. Yeah. He got up one picture of this buck and he took his second camera, moved it around until he got another picture of the buck. And then he took his third camera and he just made a trail of his cameras until he was able to pinpoint exactly where this deer was bedded and killed him coming out of his bed once he figured it out. I mean, you can do that. If you're saying, I mean, it's not rock. It is rocket science in a way because you got to figure out where he's bedded. That's one thing. But if you're smart, your average deer hunter ain't going to be able to do that. Not usually or have the patience. They're not going to put the time in or maybe they don't have the land. Yeah. And it might not have the big deer there. But it's I still think that we've got to look at it as a and we talk about this because I struggle with it. I like cameras are fun, man. They're fun to show your kids are fun to look at. They're fun to show your buddies. It's like you're sitting there with you all your buddies. It's awesome, man. It's awesome, but they're so darn good. Yeah. Well, see, and here's what's crazy. I mean, Corey, you've hunted you're what? You're 34, 34 years old, but you grew up hunting in a hunting family, right? I did too. I was eight years old when I killed my first deer, you know, back in 99 is when I killed my first deer. And there was nothing that cameras wasn't even a thing. Hell, the internet wasn't even a thing. Yeah. I mean, why 2K wasn't hadn't even hit. Yeah. I kind of envy. I would like to go for one season and just hear what we have found when there's a restaurant up where Cody lives and call him out. And I said this in multiple podcasts. There's a restaurant there that you would pull up to and it'd be a line of trucks. I mean, it'd be 30 to 40 trucks. Everybody's going in this restaurant. That was a meetup. And everybody, when you pulled in, you went and looked in every single truck bed, dude, the button heads, the spot supporter. If you seen the 85 inch eight owner, he's like, I'm going to figure out who that was. And I'm going to have to worry, he killed us what he did. Well, I remember going there later on, cause I grew up eating there too. I mean, it's five minutes down the road from my house. It started to become a point where now if you have to always have the trucks, yeah, but if they had a deer, it is a big. Yeah, I went in there one morning, his ride started muzzle order and I'd been bow hunting that morning. I was like 16. And there was a dude with a unit in the back of his truck. I mean, like a hundred mid 140s. Yeah. And I was like, hang on, what'd you do? Kill that one. And he's like, I had this camera here and this camera here and I did this for this and this and this and this and I'm like, slow down. Yeah. I will say this cameras are necessary evil. They are. It's so hard. They're necessary evil. If you're hunting area, I'm going to use you want to be a trophy hunter. They're a necessary evil. They are. And they're necessary evil. If you're hunting a piece of public, don't have a lot of fear on. Yeah. And they're necessary evil. If you're like a working guy like us and you don't have the time to invest in the woods and it is that I'm saying they're necessary evil, but I don't know which point, because it's going to get better. I don't know what the next thing is, but it's going to get so good that at what point do we as hunters say, all right, all right, we got to take like this is too good. Yeah. And I don't know. Is it the drones or the cameras? Is it whatever AI technology that comes next? I don't know. And we talk about this a lot. Yeah. And we're I mean, I'm a little worried about it. I mean, here's the argument that I have. So if you have a guy that has cell cameras and is a working dad and has has some spaced out and he's sitting back and he's like, I'm not going to go hunt. And I'm not going to go hunt until I get a picture of that button. Yeah. Yeah. That's the guy that I got a problem with. Yeah. Yes. We talked about that. Do you know how much you are missing? Yes. Just by basing it off of that. If you got a guy that has a couple properties and he's he's a dad and he's trying to make all the ends meet, but he's still going to hunt while those cell cameras are working and he's in a stand hunting somewhere else. And he may not even have a chance, maybe even a doe. But then he gets a picture of the deer and then he can go make a play. Yeah. You know, to me that that's, you know, he's hunting and still hunting and but it's it's a hard call. It's all up to the individual because it's it's legal. I think this is not illegal. Yeah. No. Cameras will make. I think there are cameras will make you hate hunting. Yes. They will. It will make you if you play the camera game, they will they will make you bored because you're going to sit there and like, well, the only thing I've had on camera is two little three year old eight pointers and a four pointer spike. So you're going to sit there on TikTok. You're going to sit on Instagram scroll through. Oh, there's that spot. You're not going to go. Yeah. And you're not going to go and you watch TikTok from couch. I want to be in the woods. Yeah. Exactly. So if I got a camera that's not producing something, I want to go find another part on the property to get a look at every year. I call Jessup and I'll say or all my buddies and I'll say, well, I'm going back to the Oak Flat and Oak Flat is a place I don't run cameras. And dude, I see good bucks every time I go sit there. Me and Cody actually, not before. I called you say I'm going to go hunt the Oak Flower. I don't have a camera anymore. We say nine bucks. They were all over. I mean, all over. So I'm doing that was the most fun hunt I had other than the couple of times I killed deer. Yeah. I would. I'll agree with that. I had a lot of fun that morning. I mean, it was a motherfucker to get back there, but it's a long way. It's historical. Absolutely. I have shot and seen some giants on that on that flat. So my goal, one of my goals this past season was to kill a deer dog bug. Didn't matter. A deer with my son with me. And I only took him when he wanted to go. That's what made it hard. Yeah. Because four year olds kind of tough. Trust me, I took Bowdoin this year for the first time and he's somewhere in the town. It's kind of tough. And so, you know, I, anyways, I said, if I'm going to do it, I told Cory this, you know, it was late in the season. Jasper, he just got a while here. I want to go. I said, he'll go on where you want. And I got this old box and me and him and his dad built my dad in one day. And he don't want to do the nice box stand. You know, the nice thing about cattle. I got a cattle act that I put all this money into. He wants to go on the one we built because he thinks it's a tree house. Anyways, we go and we go this box then. And I said, okay, if I'm going to do this, I want to open sites. I want a Remington 742 woods master. I want to go old school. And, and that was the, I mean, I killed a big, I killed two good bucks, one big buck this year, but that was better hunt. That was fun. Yeah. You said it's a video and you're like, look at this. I'm like, if you were only an outlaw. Well, that was, oh, you're talking about the 7-pointer here. Oh, God, man, he's got a, he has got a 7-pointer. That's a year old 7. I honestly hope it stays a 7-pointer and grows. Yeah. Because that deer will be a man. Yeah, he's a, he's a 120 inch 3-year-old. He's probably bigger than that. Hell, I don't know about that. That nears almost the size of the, I mean, he's gotten to be close to the size of the 7-pointer I killed. Oh, he's big. Yeah. He's so big. I know. I've watched that video a hundred thousand times. He's young. He looks, he's so weird looking that he looks like his head's going to, he looks like he's going to fall over because his head weighs more than his body. Yeah. And I'm going to show, I'm going to show you a picture of this. And, and anyways, me and Jeff were sitting there and I said, he's sitting there and he's, he's watching his little phone or his iPad because he, you know, just keeping, keeping him going until the near walk out. I said, Hey, buddy, do you want to see a big book? He said, yeah. I said, well, look right down there. And there's a, there's a, just a monster, a monster, so important. I'd say mama, mama. Well, well, they like just sitting down there. And I mean, you know, you, you, he's, he's a dead deer walking. And if my son's a little older, he would have tagged his first buck. But just watching his reaction, we got to watch that deer and the deer lived, deer made it. But then we went back and killed a dog. We mean him killed a dog together, but he was fun. But we're pushing three hours. I'm going to ask you this. Okay. This is going to be the last question I ask. How do you feel about letting your kids their first deer be a big buck? Oh, it's a good question. Of course, isn't it? I know. I say, I don't know. I say, I don't know. Because they can never go up. Here's my, I don't think the deer he's going to shoot is going to be that big any ways based on the area. He might get lucky, but what? I mean, like, I'm just saying, a hundred, a hundred inch eight pointer as our first deer. I'm going to, I hope that when men Jasper get to go and I can start teaching, that's like, everybody's got their own thing. And you just your kid and you do whatever you want to. I'm not going to let him start out with a crossbow. No, he'll answer. And so, and some people don't care. And that's, with that's legal. That's gay. What? No, I hate on the other thing. I'm, I think it's, if it's legal, I'm, I can't. No, and, and some kids will sort out with them. And that's cool. If that's you and your dad, your, you and your dad are hunting. You're not on a video game. You go freaking hunt. Absolutely. All right. But for me and what I want him to experience, I want him to start out with a bow. Like, like I did, like I later, but like Corey, he was young. And then as far as shooting a buck, I don't, I mean, I don't want to put him on something that's going to ruin his ambition to go hunt. I agree. And, and so, you know, I can't help it if he's sitting there in a, in a dang, 150 s year walk. I guess I can shoot it, but, but, um, I don't predict that. Listen, your shit. I was working. I'm shooting that deal, but, but he couldn't have been quick enough. Like, I don't know. We'll just have to across that bridge when we get to, I just hope he wants to hunt. If he does, he does. If he doesn't, he doesn't. But so far, he showed interest and, um, yeah, I don't, I don't think I let bow look at a big one through the scope this time. My boys, like he wears glasses and really coke bottle glasses are really thick. You can't see and I put it on a buck. And honestly, I almost let him pull the trigger. And so it's a big seven point. And I'm like, all right, buddy, can you see it? And I move the gun, the scope off of it intentionally, just to see. I'm like, all right, buddy, can you see it? And I've got it pointed 30 foot to the left of the deer. He goes, yeah, daddy, I can see it. I'm like, it's I'm like, I'm like, okay, cool. I just wanted you to see it through the scope and I pulled it and put the crossover back on it. I'm like, all right, buddy, sit down. Watch your sponge bomb. Yeah, let's like, he could have shot. I mean, I could have put him in my lap. I could have put the gun on the deer and he could have put it in your bottom pod. Oh, yeah. Do us pull the damn train. And, and I said, this is not how I want him to feel with his first book. Exactly. Yeah. And, and I mean, there's daddy sitting there 50 yards away, not like here in the world. He could have shot. And it's a great deer, but I just want him to feel that that rush that he did it. Yeah. And, so I think he's daddy's person goes, I need to draw. You got to draw your own line. That's just my line. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I remember it first. Any, any parting, hitting, parting thoughts, scout, scout, scout, don't be scared to shoot those, get repetitions. Shoot the dose, shoot all of them. If you have a giant on camera, don't go shoot them. Yeah. Open and daddy fucking knows. Anyway, those just in those big deer. He's like, I, I'm just doing repetitions, boys, repetitions, kill, kill, repetition, you have to get reps under your belt. Yeah. And then start killing, you start killing him. Does a big bus go have more room to roam on that property. You got them. Unless you shoot him as a big bucks walking in. Well, I don't have fun. Yeah. But was this has been fun. Yeah. Corey, thank you for coming in there to the end. Surprise visit. I don't think he's gonna be over here, but it's good. Any man, any man that walks in with the dead animal in his hand is a friend of mine. And my first shoe squirrels, he's been back shooting the hell out of squirrels. While we were doing this podcast, he's, we could hear the dog back here. And I heard a couple of gunshots. Well, you know, I'll say this. I'll kind of end it here. There's, there's good, there's, there's good deer killers all in, in, in, everyone in the United States. I mean, you don't have to look for, but I mean, I, and I'm not one of them. I've, I've been lucky, but I think that I don't know. I think you're, you're, uh, yeah, I'm 15, $1,000 with the tax. I think that, and I'll be, I'm going to, I'm going to blow up a little bit, but I think honestly, Corey, he's a, he's a, he's a damn killer. I'm going to that. He's a people with you this year. We're going to go, but I'll show you the place. And I had a very good teacher that not a lot of people get. That means everything. And, and, and how to find deer and, and, and like it made me a lot better than I was early. I'm, I'm developing now. I think I'm getting in my own a little bit, but Corey isn't, is it? If, if there's a big book and he's there, he's, he's, he's going to kill, kill it. He'll find it. And, and not in a way, like he's not going to run 45 to sell camera. He's not going to do it. He will find it. And you got to have an appreciation for people like that. And it's, it's waiting for that second kiss now that you're saying. I might be, he's not, he's not, that was a one time. Not, people don't get good teachers. And the, the, what I have appreciation for is that I've learned a good set of skills that my son gets to pass to his kids. Oh, 100%. This is, it's a family tradition. And I didn't have those skills. My family, there was no hunters in my family. No, nobody remembers that victory really hell. They got playing Fortnite. You know what I mean? Yeah, you remember that first time I remember, I killed my first squirrel when I was four years old. I remember showing a little 22 days, a daisy 22. Yeah. And that's, that's the best thing about it. But, uh, we're going to, we will wrap this up. It's the longest podcast we've had yet. And I didn't show it. It's been good. If, uh, say this, uh, pluggy stuff there, where, where do they find you? Who, who the hell are you? Why do they find you? So, if you want to, I mean, we're on Instagram, we've got Instagram and Facebook. You can look up, uh, most of our stuff we post is on last draw outdoors. You just look it up. It's, uh, some Instagrams are good place. We post a lot of our stuff on there. And there's a lot of good content. Um, so if you want to keep up with us, I would just look up last draw outdoors. We've been on there since 2015. Absolutely. And that's, that's pretty awesome, Corey. Same for you. Last draw outdoors and, yep, last draw outdoors and I ain't going to tell my personal hit to fight off all the late. Yeah. I'm joking. Desi. You don't know that God, your wife is going to absolutely kill Jordan. Hey, listen, I'll have to fight off all the ladies, too. If I, if I ever look up mine, I will. No, Holly, Holly, Holly. What kind of ladies? I'm just there about 60 years old. Listen, if they've got property, they can take their teeth out. Yeah. They got property. You got a hundred acres. We can work out it. But it was a 100 acres fault. Is it in Illinois? I do what I gotta do. Thank you guys for listening to the hunt and the Mason Dixon podcast. Again, I'm your host, Jordan Jones, co-host Cody Triplett. This was fun. Let's do it again. Yeah. Let's make them big taters. Go, big taters, boys. [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]
The longest podcast launched yet is packed full of good information from our guest Jordan Jessup from Last Draw Outdoors. Last Draw Outdoors is a group of buddies that got together and started sharing their hunting lives and experiences. From hunting strategies to hunting stories, we cover a lot with one of the founders Jordan. Also towards the end, one of the other founders joins in to talk his perspective!
https://www.workingclassbowhunter.com/
The HMD Podcast is part of the WCB (Working Class Bowhunter) Podcast Network! Check out the other awesome shows in the family:
Working Class Bowhunter The Victory Drive Firearm Podcast Tackle & Tacos - A Fishing Podcast!
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