(upbeat music) - Hey, what's going on? This is the Saturday Down South podcast. I am Connor Giro. We'll plan for today. Doug LaMariece is gonna join us for a big 10 SEC discussion, debate, or a words, whatever you wanna call it. I'll let the people decide on that after they listen to that conversation. Fun discussion with him though. And then we've got Lad of the Week. But first, we have breaking news. Breaking news before recording this podcast. Will Falkamp is open. - Huge. - Falkamp, we did it. We did it. They said it couldn't be done. They said that we could not get through an entire off season, but we did it. We are in Falkamp opening week. The buzz is just through the roof everywhere you look. I do love the beginning of Falkamp. I absolutely love it. It used to be one of those things that would sneak up on me because they initially extended the date of when you could start Falkamp. And then the sooner it got here, like now it's getting here, we're recording this on July 29th. And we're talking about Falkamp already starting in certain places. Well, I don't wanna say that the season has started, but it's here and we made it. - Yeah, I mean, we just got to talk about this off air, but you know, all of the, you know, things we had to do to get through the off season, you know, still being like a new-ish dad, right? And like having to do the single parenting, going to, you know, these events, going to SC Media Days, us licking up. I've, you know, had the whole WNBA calendar. I had to worry about it now in the Olympic break. I got the NWSL, same deal. So, yeah, I mean, this was definitely a big stretch for us just kind of finding stuff to talk. And good for the sport that just always in 24 hour news cycle, 'cause this was a good news cycle or era to do this in. But man, this off season felt like it's been an eternity. Like, I've been waiting for, you know, the new members of the SEC, the new conferences, the new playoff, like, I feel like- - The new video game- - Yeah, the new video game. I feel like I haven't had this much anticipation. I feel like I'm a kid again, right? Like the video game's out. I'm excited to see not just my team, but other teams, you know, as like a quote unquote media member, you kind of take your team out of it. Now I feel like I'm like, okay, I'm excited to go watch Oklahoma. I'm excited to go watch Texas. I'm excited to go watch Texas A&M. I'm excited to go watch whatever Florida's gonna do. Like, I have so many, especially going to media days, I see like how inundated you are with this stuff and how it just like opens your eyes to who all these players and coaches are. It's super cool. - Round of applause for all. You, me, everyone listening, this is, we are, we are in the home stretch and we get to see, at the very least, we're throughout, after this entire off season, we get to now see these videos come out every single day. Coach quotes, random player quotes that probably won't mean anything, but I am here for it. I have often done in the past, the things that I'm watching for in fall camp, only to then realize very quickly, there's actually not as much that you learn about in fall camp and you don't hear a ton of things because yeah, this crazy concept, teams don't want a ton getting out. They don't because everything is a secret, but I do think coaches learn plenty about their teams. I do think it's a bit more individual than big picture. So with that in mind, I decided, let's do a 180 today. Let's talk about all the things that we won't learn from camp that will still be question marks going into the season once the games actually start, no matter how perfectly edited these slow-mo videos are, that we will inevitably see over the next four weeks. And again, I'm here for those. Love all that content, give it to me. But does it actually mean what we wanted to mean? TBD on that, so does that make sense? - Yeah, absolutely. - All right, let's start with the first one here. Well, we won't learn if Georgia's off-field issues will couch up to Kirby in 2024. Yeah, let's start on the series now, let's do it. Because Raara Thomas, in case you missed it, he was the latest bulldog to get arrested, suspended indefinitely. It is a family violence-related arrest. I don't wanna say exactly like the first time that he got arrested after arriving from Mississippi State in January, 2023, he was not suspended that first time. He was suspended indefinitely this time. So obviously, there is a certain bit of seriousness that's being taken that feels a little bit different, at least from that perspective. And as many have pointed out, it's another expected Georgia starter that's the subject of bad off-season headlines joining small London, Trevor Eitan earlier in the off-season. He's in that dubious group. Even Georgia fans know at this point that this is not just some media narrative in an attempt to keep UGA down or something like that, okay? Even Georgia fans are like, oh my God, here we go again. This can't be happening. Last year, we asked the question all off-season about if Kirby had a culture problem and if he was about to unravel, or more specifically if his program was about to unravel. And I don't think that you can say that he has, well, lost the program as he attempts to have his fourth consecutive 12 and 0 start. I don't say that to minimize what is happening off the field because it is indeed significant that the premier program in this sport right now is struggling to keep its name out of bad news and at the same time, I also don't think you can say that Kirby's philosophy with discipline whenever you determine that to be is working. And I don't think you can say these are all isolated incidents. These are, this is the byproduct of having so many players on a football team. What we do know is that Kirby doesn't publicly suspend guys. That's handled internally always just so that we and the media aren't sitting here comparing this suspension to that suspension of blah, blah, blah. That doesn't mean that they're not getting punished, but honestly, maybe a little bit more public shame is what Kirby needs at this point. If Kirby somehow does have a 2010 Florida year, which is the fear, that's the worst case scenario of all this from an on-field perspective, we will definitely have our answer to that question, but nothing in fall camp, even if we get more Georgia players arrested, nothing in fall camp is going to happen that's going to make us definitively say Kirby has lost the program. - Yeah, I fully agree. I mean, this is just a weird, weird case. We talked about this during media day before this happened. It's just tough to speculate, right? I mean, I don't think anyone is accusing Georgia just quite yet of having an urban Meyer 2008-12 level. - Matt Hays is already on record, started on soft.com shameless plug. That discussion is being had. - So where I'm going with that is that like the things that were going on at Florida were insane. Like they're creative. I always joke about like if you're going to have comments that are insulting or if you're going to do like crime, when it really gets bad stuff I've never seen before. Photos are never seen before. Georgia is, that's the question, right? Does it raise above the level of, you know, typical? Yes, you know? And so that's where it becomes an interesting conversation where it's like, you know, how much of this stuff, you know, when you look at Kirby Smart, who is a coach that went back to back Maddy's, played at Georgia, has the roots there. You know, he is kind of insulated from a lot of the skepticism and that's why I always say, hey, you know, if Sam Pittman goes through something, what if Kirby Smart was doing this? It was the same deal here. And we could, I think we could pretty round this day that outside of Nick Saban, who is no longer, you know, in the conference, pretty much no other coach could be able to just keep walking around living their lives if this stuff were going on in the program. Do you agree with this? - Yeah, I do think he's getting career-sized. I don't think he's just getting like a total free pass, but we judge you based on the games that you win and the games that you lose. And that's still, again, that's why I'm saying like, it's not gonna change in fall camp. - Yeah. - And I'm not, again, I'm not trying to say that we should give Kirby that automatic pass and pretend like he shouldn't have changes to make. He should make changes. - Right. - There's no doubt about it. - Yeah. - Your message isn't getting through, but until we see that actually changed in the wins and losses, I'm saying that that's not going to necessarily change his overall perception nationally. - Exactly, and all I'm saying there, I mean, with this amount of arrests that become public, I mean, almost, all I'm saying is almost anyone in the SEC. I mean, you could talk about a guy with a long tenure, like Mark Stoops, I mean, we're talking about a guy who is looking at probably getting fired if he has this much off the field stuff going on. You know, maybe a Sarc, he's kind of gotten a little bit of that, you know, curse off the back type things, or maybe he has a little bit more of a leeway. But it's, at point being, it's very hard for me because we've seen administrations use off the field situations a lot of Tennessee, right, as a way to get out from under things. And even like the way that Florida has handled some things, right? So it's interesting that it's almost like he's winning to offset this stuff. So it's your point. Yeah, if they come out and have two, three losses, well, then those questions become louder. It is truly tied to winning and curating because right now, Kirby has done enough to be almost untouchable from a job security, real consequence. Like, 'cause you, I mean, there are certain universities where they would just spend the approach for this stuff. So we are at that point of real, real consequences. We're ready to call them, we're asking questions, but the thing that's gonna change that, unless there would be one very even more serious event, which obviously this whole thing started with, you know, trying to get the two members of the football program. Yeah, that's the big point. Yeah. And like, that's kind of the thing is that you would think that that thing has already happened, is all I'm saying there, which is crazy. Like, it's, here's the line of what is unacceptable. We started past that line and we've just continued to go. So I don't know really where it goes from here. I would hope that people's just clean it all up and we all have fun and play football, but it's very interesting to see how those things are gonna be balanced. It's a very fascinating situation for here. Yeah, if he has that bad season, that season, that's just been so far off the radar since the start of Georgia's dominance, 2017, that yes, you better believe this stuff will come back to the surface and will be discussed and scrutinize even more. Yeah, that's just the reality of the situation. Yep. All right, number two, we won't learn about any SEC quarterback battles because we know every starter in the SEC. There you go. Think about that. 11 of 16 SEC teams had a quarterback at SEC Media Days. If none of those guys are starting, it's because something has happened in camp and arrest, some sort of academic misconduct, some sort of injury, suspension, you get it. The five that didn't have quarterbacks at SEC Media Days, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, Vandy. Four of those programs already have starters named pretty publicly and the one that isn't. Vandy, Diego Pavia is gonna be a guy, okay? Sorry, Clark Lee. If you wanna tell us that Nate Johnson is still getting reps with the ones down to the final week of fall camp, that's fine. You're entitled to do that, even though, look, I like Clark Lee. His offensive acumen. His quarterback acumen has been limited at best. It's been basura. It has been. But yeah, look, we know every starting quarterback in the SEC unless something changes. I think there's actually something to be said for this about, I think teams have to figure out their quarterback situations earlier than ever because of that post regular season window with the portal. And I think that's expediting this. If a team makes a move like Kentucky or Arkansas did where they hand pick their guy, you can usually tell, hey, this guy's locked in at QB1. There's really not a whole lot of room for discussion there. Yes, there's a situation every once in a while with an Ohio State where they get a Will Howard and then they truly do have a battle. Ohio State's also a pretty one-of-one situation right now with a $20 million roster, according to Ross Bjork. But I think that there is something to be said for that. And you look into these things. If a team doesn't make a move like an Auburn or Texas A&M, you could pretty much tell how those teams feel about their incoming starters for better or for worse. It doesn't mean all quarterback battles are dead. But I just think that they're gonna become less and less common because I think it's more valuable to be able to get your guy reps with the ones as opposed to trying to be super vague to motivate guys in the off-season. It's the NIL era. You should not need to motivate a guy with a pesky backup or something like that. Brian Kelly brings in AJ Swan, right? Which competent backup, a guy that's done things. What's the better way to say that? A guy who is legitimate SEC experience being planning for SEC defenses and those things. I don't think Brian Kelly is strictly bringing in AJ Swan to have a battle with Garrett Nussmeyer. Or else you know what? Guess who's not at SEC media days? And guess who's not QB1? Garrett Nussmeyer, we've been talking about a battle. But that's not the case. You just don't, you shouldn't have to do that anymore. You vary like all the financial incentive in the world for these guys should be in NIL and not necessarily like, "Oh, is that QB2 gonna light a fire under me?" But I just, I like that we're seeing coaches be a bit more decisive at quarterback because if there's a fear that guys are gonna leave in the post spring window, history tells us that's not really a time when teams are looking for starters. So maybe someone like Ty Simpson that we talked about a lot right around that time, he might not have had that starter market because teams are recognizing, I don't wanna go out and get my starter in the post spring window. I want that guy there for the start of winter conditioning. So different with a guy like Julian Sand who leaves Bama to go to Ohio State after a new coaching staff steps in. Obviously there'll be still gonna be situations like that. But I do wonder if this is kind of a new trend that we're seeing where there's gonna be less and less of these fall quarterback battles for us to talk about. - Yeah, I think you're right on the money here. And part of that is, is this because everyone wants to have all their defenses and their PR short up as we move into this new era with the new conferences and all that. - Yeah. - Part of that is, yeah, like as you talk about kind of like the national scope which is good context. Like, you know, like let me put you like this. We were kind of joking yesterday's about like, okay, if Billy Napier wins seven games, Florida might just extend him, right? Because right now you're either extending your coach or you're firing your coach. You're not ever figuring it out. And I think that football coaches and the football apparatus for the sports in general is based around competition and figuring things out. Well, now we're in this world where you wanna have things figured out before you even talk to the media. And so we're kind of removing that element of, well, you got two guys out here. Like, I've just imagined, when I imagine old school football, I just imagine, I just used to figure out it. I've just realized this. - That's a good use for you. - That's a good mental image. I like that. - Yes. And I could see him go to media days and say, we got this guy, this guy, whichever sucks less, that's who we're gonna start. And like, you would just never do that today. 'Cause you don't want to be here writing about quarterback controversy, one guy by transfer. So like, yeah, that might just be the future, I don't know. - Yeah, I also think to the way that we talk about quarterbacks with the recruiting cycle at the high school level, you wanna get that quarterback first. It solidifies your class. He can kind of help you recruit at the skill positions and stuff. You see the identity of what your offense is gonna look like. Same thing now in the portal era. You wanna bring in that quarterback and then who knows? Maybe he's gonna see one of his boys that he went to high school with who's in the portal and you can get him on board. Hey, let's come link up, let's play together. You can do it in the post spring window as well, where I think that rule is totally different with evaluating other positions and evaluating at quarterback. You really just have to do it in that post regular season window to set up everything else. And I think teams doing that more so and having to make some of those earlier decisions has got us to this point where I truly do not think there is a real battle in the SEC with 16 teams. I don't feel like there is truly one battle despite what a certain Vanderbilt coach might wanna tell you. - Well, and I'll tell you, and also Diego Pavia has been named preseason all ACC he best taught us our last podcast. So he's got, listen, he's gonna start at these thrones certain about touchdowns. He's certain about it anyway. - Oh, yeah. - So, yeah. - So, point big, point big. Like, I think part of it too, you just hit it on this too, is that a lot of these quarterbacks will, they're all friends, right? They go to lead 11, they go to all these different camps and they say, hey, you know, I'm thinking of choosing this school. You should probably choose this school and they kind of work all this out to where you don't have two friends that are both five-star quarterback really battling for these spots as often as anymore. 'Cause, honestly, they're all brands. They're all markets. They wanna say, hey, like we all wanna eat. So we don't wanna have two of the quarterbacks commit to this place and go be in the competition. We're gonna take one of those guys and say, "Hey, why don't you try?" I don't know, Oregon, Kentucky, right, with Adegriff. Like, "Well, let's you go over there and figure that out." It's almost like an armistice where like, there's this treaty between quarterbacks that they're like, "Oh, let's all pick our spots." And if they are going into the late portal window, like you're talking about, it's because something is going horribly awry or because a new coaching staff is coming. - A Jadon Rashata situation, which one? - Yeah, good, it's gracious, man. - Eek. - Mm. - Yeah. - But it's more of a depth than picking your starter, for sure. - Yeah. - Jadon Rashata's day with those texts 'cause God grieve, they blocked him. He's not the group Jackson before. - Poor guy. I hope he's got better days ahead. I hope this isn't the highlight of his college career, or I shouldn't say highlight, but I hope that this isn't the most that he has talked about or the only headline he's going to generate throughout his college career, but yeah, it doesn't feel great. Okay, number three. We won't learn if new look defenses will doom playoff paths for LSU, Mizzou, and Alabama. We're not gonna know, okay? All three of new defense coordinators, all three have pre-season playoff buzz. All three can watch that playoff buzz, go up and smoke if their defenses are Basura. I think that's fair to say, I do. I don't care about all the practice videos, I don't care if coaches are saying it feels like a 50/50 battle in practice with the offense and the defense. I will not know about these defenses until I see them play other offenses. If you're of the belief that they're going to be good, you're keeping that possibility of doubt in the back of your mind for one reason or another, because all it's gonna take is for one of these groups or all of these groups to allow a few long touchdowns early for that doubt to creep in. If will, you've got to be sitting there watching Sage Ryan, 10 yards of separation, USC receiver over the top, 65 yard touchdown. They're gonna say, why did I believe in anything? Facts. - I keep telling you, we're gonna get cooked by this team. - So that's not on BR. - Miller Moss is thrown for his 600 yards and it sees an opening victory for USC. Sorry, that's just going to, that's going to be a possibility, regardless of what the fall camp storylines will be for those defenses. Perhaps the three most scrutinized defenses in the SEC, three of the most scrutinized defenses in all of college football. I mean, Bama's secondary is getting called out by Savon and Savon's not even employed by the university anymore. All right? - Yeah. - Yeah, no, I think too. It's let's make a deal, right? Let's not buy the hype in camp. And then let's also not dump on these teams when they do struggle. Say that's why point is that if we hype up LSU, and they're like, every team, right? That's not, whatever, but it's every team gets hyped up during the off season that they believe in themselves. So if we say, okay, LSU is up on a high and then they get cooked by USC, it's done. It's over with, well, again, we've seen the last two years. LSU is not but over with after getting cooked in a week one. So like, I think that's the thing is I know it's hard, but let's take about four or five weeks before we start evaluating what these teams, these defenses can be. 'Cause yeah, like I said, last spot about Alabama, it's like, they're rebuilding everything. This is a rebuilding team. They're not acting that way and that's not the messaging, but let's give them a couple of weeks and a year plus to figure this out, same thing as Mizzou. 'Cause I know the thing about Mizzou is unlike Alabama and LSU, they will be fighting the fraud or the one hit wonder label. And I don't think that's true based on what they're building there, but if their defense loses all this talent and they lose their DC and their second best assistance, LSU, there's going to be an adjustment. That's just how things work. - What's at least weight to see what it looks like when UMass has to roll out that offense and Mizzou's secondary's going to be tested. Ryan Bamford is going to be lining up at quarterback for UMass. - Solid popcorn, he's ready to go. - It's like we're running another Flee Flicker. I don't care. Double or burst Flee Flicker, it works every single time, just try it. - Yeah, but those will be the questions for those defenses. - Number four, we won't learn if bounceback years await the likes of Harold Perkins, Juice Wells, Rocket Sanders. I'll throw Squirrel White in that conversation. Maybe you could find a Jamaan-Doomis Johnson with a bounceback, man. - Juice Wells, Rocket Sanders and Squirrel White. - Look, what a great job. Beautiful names, beautiful names. All name teams forever, okay? Not a doubt. All SEC at season's end, yeah. I mean, it'll be a different path for each of those guys. But that will be a popular topic of camp is those guys bouncing back. And I know there's going to be clips of these guys coming out. There'll probably be quotes from coaches saying that they're in the best shape of their lives. Shane Beamer told us that we're going to see the best version of Rocket Sanders after he's really been banged up throughout this offseason. And I'm kind of just like, I don't know, man. Well, we'll wait and see. I thoroughly enjoyed watching the best version of Rocket Sanders in 2022. I would love to just take Beamer's prediction as gospel by saying that Rocket will take off again in 2024, pun intended, but I don't know. I also wonder what it looks like if he takes some of those awkward hits to his knees or if he's going to be limited by a South Carolina offensive line that's been nothing to write home about. I've always loved that phrase, by the way, side note, nothing to write home about. As if at some point I busted out some parchment and I said, mother, I write to you to say that South Carolina's offensive line is a site to behold. Wait until you see it on the television. I would love nothing more than to write home about all these lads and say that they are a site to behold, but I won't be convinced of it until we see it. Fair. Yeah, I think I'm really rooting for Rocket, man. I'm right there, Rocket, comma, man. I'm right there with you. I think he's a guy that if I start to see that little bit of explosion, explosiveness that we've seen, I'll start to get excited. 'Cause he, according to Beamer, we talked over when he talked a couple weeks ago, he's like, he's still not really practicing or healthy. So if we can see him, we go and read to do it fast cuts. I'll start to get hopefully excited about him, but 'cause he feels like behind the other guys right now. I know. And South Carolina is putting a lot on his shoulders to be the guy. They just really, I'm not saying that they need him to be what Kevin Harris was in 2020, but they need, there's a name that hasn't been brought up probably in a minute, but they need him to be, and again, that was pre-Beamer. So that's a little bit different, but they need him to be a playmaker because outside of him, the proven guys, they are lacking. Speaking of one of those potential playmakers for South Carolina, number five, we won't learn if Nick Harbor is ready to be a football alien. Hope he is. I don't know. Speaking of guys that Beamer would love to be able to unlock. I haven't heard the most promising things about Harbor yet just in terms of the route running, where he needs to be at this level, the type of snap count that he's expected to get this year. If we think South Carolina is going to have to rely on him a lot, which I do think that they will because obviously you lose Laguette and Wells, you're not returning him from injury, he's at Ole Miss, but I can promise you now that with him being back with the football team full-time and not juggling both sports in spring, really, I mean, he was basically just doing track in the spring, if we're being totally clear. He's going to have some viral moments coming up. Get ready for those. He's going to have some viral moments during fall camp that's going to make us all assume that he's going to become a household name and not just because he has 99 speed in college football 25. Have you played with him yet or played against him? Yes, I was about to say, you know, when we talked to Luther Bird and he called him old 99 speed of South Carolina, I think we both interpreted that as a little bit of a dig, buddy, what do you play South Carolina in the seat of late 25? Because I saw about six yards of separation on a go-round and go, there he is, old 99 speed. I can see why that would be your introduction. Yeah, just, I hope for Nick Arbor's sake, he's not just much better to play with in video game than he is in real life, because if he is unlocked, it'd be great to see. But I can see videos of Harbor come out and hear glowing remarks about his route running and how that should have all of us encouraged, but until I see him leave some dude in the dust with a hitch and go on an actual football field that is in South Carolina's, I'm gonna try and temper my excitement for Nick Arbor as difficult as that might be. Number six, well, we won't learn a few freezes, still one of the premier play callers in the sport. Not gonna figure that out in fall camp, we will not. We will figure out that Big Cat weekend was apparently just an unbelievable success. Not hating on you, Auburn fans, you have every right to be excited. Okay, it's good to see an influx of talent after whatever you wanna call the Brian Harson era. I'm for that, like celebrate that. Just remember verbal commitments, like 26 class, it's great, but take it with a grain of salt, please. I don't want y'all to get hurt again. I really don't, I've seen so much, so many positive vibes coming out of that with all the commitments that are getting left and right. Things can change in a hurry in the sport. But anyways, Q Freeze as a play caller. I don't mean any disrespect to Derek Nix when I say this, who came over after spending a long time at Ole Miss. This is Q Freeze's offense, it is. He hired, he fired Phillip Montgomery after one year because he wanted to take over this offense again. People don't talk about how Phillip Montgomery actually just dialed it up for the UFL champs, the Birmingham Stallions, Adrian Martinez, same page, just lighting teams up. I don't know how many play call and duties he had. I didn't wanna look into that. I assume Skip Holtz might've had something to do with it, but can't say that I'm as dialed into the UFL, cannot. But I do wonder what it's gonna look like with Q Freeze getting back into this role. And I've spoken a ton on this about why I'm mostly not a fan of head coaches being offensive play callers, primary offensive play callers, unless we're talking about the elite of the elite doing it. And even then, I kind of wish it was more of the hypo-kiffin variety, the way that they approach it. But what's going to tell us that Q Freeze hasn't lost a step and that he's going to treat this like it's 2014 Ole Miss all over again. There's nothing I'm gonna see in fall camp that's gonna make me say, oh my God, Q Freeze top three, top four play caller on the sport. - Yeah, I'm actually fascinated 'cause he's been part of that comes with the denial, right? But I think he's been an even better recruiter thus far than I think we expected. It's just a significantly worse offensive mind, which is not at all what we would've dealt, but what we would've picked for the Hugh Freeze era at Auburn. So I'm so fascinated by what he's doing over there 'cause it feels like, I hate to say if they could survive this year, but you just never know with college football, Hugh Freeze or whatever, but just feels like if they could build on last year, get to seven, eight wins, don't lose to directional Southwest colleges, if they could get better this year. Feels like that next year is a big jumping off point 'cause it's underrated in the rebuild they had to do here and it looks like they're actually doing a pretty good job if they could just block out the noise. - Should we be that surprise that Hugh Freeze is good at recruiting in this era of college football? - I don't know. - I think so, man. He's kind of hokey. Like Davos followed off, you know? - But at the same time, got Laramie Tunzel. - Yeah. (laughing) - He's totally, without any issues whatsoever. No punishment there, no. The Clontradwell, got the Clontradwell to come from the suburbs of Chicago. - Yeah. - Pretty good recruiter. - Pretty good recruiter. Has always been pretty darn good. But no one's-- - For that, he's been almost-- - He's been almost as capable of love. The Clontradwell made him fall in love with the suburbs of Chicago and now he's got an old boy from Naperville. He just can't let him go. - Hugh Freeze never gave me an offer. It's up with that. - See? There he goes. He's got some full back in him. - Anyway, exactly. Another thing that we won't learn in fall camp. We're not gonna learn if Oklahoma and Texas are SCC ready. Just half joking, Tung and Cheek very much. I only included this just because it's the number one SCC question this off season and I'm guilty of probably phrasing it that way too often despite the fact that nothing, and I mean nothing, gets under the skin of Texas and Oklahoma fans more than phrasing it that way and saying, "Are they SCC ready?" I'm a believer that both will be SCC ready. And while I think Texas is defensive line and Oklahoma's offensive line will probably have moments where they're not winning that battle for an entire 60 minute game, I do think those programs as a whole will check those boxes the majority of the time, but I guess technically if you're on the fence about that or if you're at least full on doubting it, fall camp won't reveal that they are going to be SCC ready. So it's fair to include on this list. - Yeah, as you say this, it's very funny because I realizing that though that question was like continually asked all the time when we made a joke out of it, there just is no way to tell. It's a pointless question because what are they gonna say? They're never gonna come out and be like, yeah, we gained 500 pounds of muscle and we're even more ready than ever 'cause it's bulleted more material. And they're not gonna come out and say, we're scared, we're shaking at our fruits 'cause there's no team, whatever, say that. So yeah, good point, this is all just talking. There's not even, especially in this era, no one's gonna come out and be like, "Actually, we cooked all of it over last year "and we'll do it again." But no. - It would be great though if we did have a coach enter a new conference and just flatly say, "Man, we're really gonna get our teeth kicked in "with the linebackers that we have this year." Man, we try to get some of these guys out of the portal because we rise like we're thin. I mean, we're thin to a point where I'm worried, I'm gonna have to strap on a helmet and get out there and start lightens and dudes up. Like if a coach just came out and said that, by the way, Brent Benables didn't go to Oklahoma. I meant to correct that at some point. Didn't go to Oklahoma. Kansas State, I think he was-- - Oh, wow. How about that? We just get him branded as an OU guy. How about that? - It's 'cause he's spent a while there as an assistant. So there's a certain allegiance there. But one, to clean that up, hopefully Oklahoma fans don't call me a novice too much for-- - It means their PR's working 'cause they're trying to sell this one. So there you go. - Let's start the rumor that Brent Benables has a big OU tattoo in the middle of his back. Allah, Burt Beelomah. - Burt, yeah, with the Iowa tattoo that he'll just never have removed. I'll always be part of them. But yeah, Brent Benables confirmed, did not go to Oklahoma. Okay, speaking of Oklahoma, number eight, we won't learn which new SEC starting quarterback will become an instant force. History tells us there's at least one. There's going to be one, call it a breakout candidate, whatever the case may be. Nikko Yama-Leava, we're still crushing the pronunciation. Jackson Arnold, Brock Vandegrift, Taylor Greene, Garrett Nussmeyer, Arch Manning, just saying. If these guys lack hype during fall camp, I'll be stunned. They'll have plenty of hype. They're all going to be the next breakout candidate. And quite frankly, I'm not here to dismiss any one of them at this point. I expect social media to be just a buzz with these guys, maybe as much as anyone else in the SEC during fall camp. We don't necessarily need to be sold on Quinn Ewers. We don't need to be sold on Carson deck making great throws. Sell us on these guys. That's what I do in these programs we'll set out to do. But it's one of those things that just feels like a staple of fall camp videos. Get some eyeball emojis in there. Tennessee was a masterclass at that last year with Joe Milton, just tweeting out dimes. I love it, I'm here for it. And to be fair, that's exactly what Tennessee should have done with Joe Milton, because that got people on board with Joe Milton being better than he actually was. So kind of worked from that perspective. But chances are one of those guys will be considered probably a top three, top four SEC quarterback by seasons then. I think Nico's going to be that guy. That would be my pick to emerge of that group. So I'm already on record with that. But nothing I see from Nico during fall camp will have me more or less convinced of that. Yeah, I know we have a lot to Kentucky people that listen. I just want to give you guys a tip from a social media standpoint. Do you could just present Brock Vandergriff literally as Bigfoot? Like I want footage of him walking out of the woods with like a crossbow and football pads on and just joining practice and taking reps with the ones. I want a lot of shaky footage. Like go get your mom's iPhone seven that she has in the closet and just get that footage of Brock Vandergriff being huge and just running people over. Just post that straight to social. Make a look as intimidating and mysterious as possible. That's what sold me on him. I'm still holding all my stock. Taylor Greene just put him in front of a microphone. It's a cool guy. We were learning. We talked about that last week. So guys, these are some exciting names. Just all of these guys, you could kind of, the guy that I least expect to see is Arch Manning. Like that's where we're at right now. It's good to not have incumbent. Like, yeah, we have Carson Beck. I'm not like leaving him out. He's just the number one with a bullet. You got to go anywhere from there. You were as the bama guys would tell you, that they like nowhere like get it. But we don't have like these great Titanic back and forth. It's like really the oldest is CT in preseason. It's pretty locked up. But post-season, we'll see. Yeah, Brad and I have talked about this, about how we could really make a case that maybe 10 quarterbacks in the SEC have all SEC upside, which just feels like a lot because it is where, yeah, we're not going to prick all 10 of these guys to make all SEC because spoiler alert, that cannot happen. But if you told us in the preseason that any one of these guys would end up as one of the two or three best quarterbacks in this conference, we wouldn't necessarily be particularly stunned. But yeah, Rock of Integra have also a big hunter. So he can just get one of his buddies, taking one of those videos. That content is pretty easy. Kentucky social team can kind of take care of the rest. A la Bigfoot comps, yeah, that would play. Number nine, well, we won't learn if Billy Napier is going to be on schedule in year three. We won't. Yeah. I don't know what he calls on schedule in year three. I wouldn't call what's happened in the first two years to be on schedule. I guess we just agree. Billy and I with that. But Florida is getting ready to lose positivity coming out of fall camp. We will be sold on how different their defense is. We'll be sold on how the overhauled nutrition program is going to matter. The 500 pounds of muscle, how there are reliable receivers outside of Trey Wilson that this offensive line will find consistency. Not being one of the biggest yo-yo groups in the SEC. And by yo-yo, I mean, just going back and forth. Look at the rushing game log last year. Oh my God. It's maddening to see it. There will be all of that selling that's going to go on. And look, I don't necessarily think that Florida was out here puffing its chest at SEC media days and selling it necessarily in an extreme borderline delusional way. I didn't necessarily get that sense. I got more of that sense last year actually from them. But we still did hear about these things. And we're going to continue to hear about these things. I wish we did actually get to learn about whether or not Florida was going to be capable of checking all those boxes. Because I actually feel, even as someone that's pricking Florida to go six and six, like I'm more neutral on them than I am a believer that Billy Napier is going to be able to weather the storm and get another contract and move on to this next chapter of his time at Florida. And I'm also not necessarily the one saying absolutely without a doubt he's getting fired. There's no way he can survive this. I do feel like I'm more in the middle and there's going to be a little bit more room for interpretation. But if I had answers to those things, I'd probably be giving you a much stronger take. - Yeah, I mean, I could joke about, I wish he never gets fired, but I think that honestly the schedule has made me completely do a 180 on Billy. And just I legitimately going to be rooting for him this year because I kid it's just not fair. It's not fair that they have to go through the schedule with the team that they have left over. I mean, and like we could talk about, okay, for sure, you had coached. That team was actually a little bit more set up to win than we thought they were at year one. I think seeing Anthony Richardson go in the top 10. I mean, seeing, of course I'm forgetting our boys name, the receiver that was like amazing or something. - Of course, like I felt like it was two years of him just being the only receiver out there. And it's funny because you said Trey Wilson in the back of my mind. I'm like, nope, he's gone now that the guy that used to be the only guy is no longer the only guy. And so it's just kind of interesting, him now being a first round traffic, the offensive line graining out pretty well in year one, right, Cyrus Torrance being really good. So it felt like ETN being awesome. Like it felt like year one was actually a little bit looking back like that team could have done a little bit more and that if they had won, you know, seven day games in year one, then there would be a better spot. That's the only thing that you could play in Billy for because last year just kind of was what it was, right? It was at that point of pretty hollowed out roster when those upperclassmen left. So yeah, I think that, you know, they're in a tough spot. We talked about it, you know, for me days, which is that they can't come out and declare that they're going to do all this. And that was kind of the vibe that we were going to talk to MERSC. Like it was almost kind of just like, what do you want me to say dude? Like I can't say we're going to go win every game. I can't say we expect to lose every game. This just kind of sucks. And so yeah, I think we're going to learn a lot about, you know, the players and what Billy is. And, you know, when you, it's kind of like basketball in that way, right? Like, you know, the player you are in the last five minutes is the player you are. So I like James Harden just kind of struggled where he has, we got to see what Billy is as a coach this year because it's going to be about projecting no matter what because it's impossible to win more than absolutely most eight games I feel. And if they win nine, watch out because they're going to, I mean, they're going to build a dynasty off the back of that because if you can get this team to win that many games, when you get in, you know, when you get in some of the recruits and stuff that have lag way among them, then you're really going to start cooking. But I think that the way that these managed PR and the way that he's kind of done, I think he needs to find his voice. I think he needs to find his voice and, you know, say what you will about some of the SEC coaches who joked about Hugh Freeze, Brian Kelly, like they're corny, but that's really are. They're always corny. So you know what you're going to get from them. I think Billy has oscillated between overconfident guy and like two safe guy. So I want to see who he is as a leader and as a coach and as a game planner because that's what he was brought in to do be this quarterback whisper and the quarterback's been good, you know what I'm saying? Like, and that's the crazy thing is that the quarterback's been good. I expect grammar is to be even better this year, honestly. But without Pearson, you know, without the line they had near one, it's just going to be hard to tell. - If they go nine and three, I'm not saying that you need to get rid of the Tebow statue and give us a Billy statue. - Yeah. - But crazier things have been done. Crazier, more premature statues have occurred on United States soil. I think there's no doubt about that. Tebow bestowing the number 50 in Jersey when he ran Murch in person. - Murch's getting a statue next to Tebow would just be the all time, like, buddy, I wish I had put a bet on that. - Yeah. - I really do. Yes, we won't get answers to those questions. Unfortunately with Florida, probably a lot of them will be answered during that Miami game. Feels like that's going to be big for determining whether or not we were, yeah, I don't want to say a bit too skeptical Florida during these eight months because I think we've ever right to be skeptical, but that will tell us probably more than anything we're going to find out in fall camp. Last question. One of my favorite questions for the entire college football season is now Lane Kiffin's time. One of the biggest storylines in the sport, no doubt. Twelve years after a year into preseason number one ranking and then led a seven win team that couldn't even win an El Paso. I think it's fair to wonder how Lane is going to handle all the rap poison. Like he can talk about that term all he wants, but he has never started and finished as a top 15 team. He's going to be tasked with that. That's going to happen. I've been saying all off season, they're probably going to have the highest preseason ranking that they've had since the Tricky Dick Richard Nixon administration. That's coming, okay? - Yeah. - The most underrated thing about what Saban and Kirby did year after year was take preseason top five rankings and turn them into top five finishes. Saban did that 12 times at Bama. Bobby Bowden did it 1988 for the first time as a head coach and then he did it 11 consecutive times from 1990 to 2000, but then he never did it again after that. Urban did it four times at Ohio State twice at Florida. Spurrier did it five times at Florida in the 90s and then again early 2000s, I believe as well. Kirby's done that four times so far at Georgia. Brian Day is done it three times less miles did it twice. Mark Rick, never. Brian Kelly, never. James Franklin, never. Steve Sarkeesian, never. Lane Kiffin, never. I think that's why all of those coaches right there are in the same breath. As we talk about 21st century legacies and if you're doing any sort of ranking of these coaches, it's not just that that group of Rick, Kelly, Franklin, Sark, Kiffin. It's not just that they are coaches who have won national championships. It's they've never done that really difficult thing that elite coaches are asked to do every single year. And when they don't do it, we say what is wrong with them? How could they not get this done? If you want to be that dude, this is your opportunity to take all of that preseason hype buildup, whatever you want to call it. We want to call it rap boys and that's fine. Now is the time that you have to be different. You just have to be. Because if you're not, Lane's going to get blasted maybe as much as any coach in college football if he doesn't get it done this year. That's what he set himself up to do. Do I think Lane Kiffin is a different person than he was in 2012? Yes, I do. I wholeheartedly believe that. Different person, different coach, all of it, okay? But if you don't get it done this year with this roster, with this schedule, in this version of the SEC, with it, it sets up for you in the editions that you made, we will have all the right in the world to criticize Lane. So that's my last question that we will not have an answer to in fall camp. No matter how many videos that he tweets out and how many perfect trolls he executes on Twitter, whatever the case may be, we will not know until these games start if now is Lane Kiffin's time. Yeah, this is a guy that has matured a lot generally, right? Like I was talking to my buddy Brady about this post separate issue. It's like, you know, you could be right about something at the time. And then that opinion changed and it not mean that you're a fraud just that the facts changed. I think that's what happened with Lane Kiffin. We saw a very somber, you know, due to the passing of his dad and the beautiful words that were said, I mean, about his dad from every SEC coach. That's really cool and special. And I hope that made his process a little bit easier, but at media days, you know, we did not get a guy who was going to be bold and brash and make the jokes and all that. Like I said, he's mourning that I know normally in our neuropsychicities a lot more jovial, but where I go there is, you know, the perfect encapsulation of Lane Kiffin as a coach was get your popcorn right, right? Because that was such an electric quote, but then they got cooked. And nobody ever talks about that. I sometimes will reference that in meetings when people don't know what happened in that game because it was such an electric quote. And Kiffin used to be the guy who was about that. And now he's kind of nonchalantly doing a little bit of that stuff, but I think he has made it more, he's gotten serious. And I said this to you in a couple of times at media days, but it's crazy how when Kiffin gets serious and when he gets somber, he falls into saving mannerisms. He starts to talk with his hands to where they kind of move back and forth. He starts to really enunciate his words. He starts to really, you know, and it's cool as even a guy, you know, I've said enough about Nick Saban on this show, but to see the impact that someone like Saban has had in helping Lane grow up, and to me, it's direct. I mean, I don't know what Kiffin would tell you. I'm sure he would probably kind of push back on that a little bit when I saw it at media days. Oh my gosh, that's Nick. And it's like, it's so cool that this guy has gone from the kind of, you know, the coach's son that was always kind of around, that was kind of a funny goofy guy, right, to where now it's like, no, you're the coach. You're the head coach. You're the head ball coach that we all look up to that is going to lead this team. And it's not looking for the sound by it, looking for the cool jerseys, looking for the, you know, the dunking and all that. Now it's like, you hear him talking. It's like, wow, this guy's locked in. He's not, he's not trying to do that. So yeah, I'm very interested by his growth as a coach and as a person because I think he knows just as well as anyone that this is his time, right? Like, and part of it, like we talked, we always talk about the bully graduated, right? Like, Saban's no longer there. You know, he's been trying since the early Obama administration if he got to Tennessee years to beat Nick Saban. Hadn't happened, right? Doesn't matter 'cause Nick Saban's not getting off that golf course, right? He's, you know, we got the board. It's a whole new rivalry. We'd love to see it. So yeah, there's no reason if you're like, Jeff, you look around and go, hey, you know, Georgia was Georgia, you know, Georgia had all these, you know, facilities, they had all this money, they had all these donors. And Kirby came over and he was able to do what he did to super impressive. But, you know, who's done this at Ole Miss? David Cutcliffe couldn't do this at Ole Miss. And everybody respects and loves him, you know, even going back to the '60s. It took you, you have to go back that far into a time before, as we've talked about, integration, to see this level of success at Ole Miss. So the fact that it's an atypical coach who is approached things differently through the portal. But also when they asked him, you know, he's been asked about the portal. He's immediately gone back to high school recruiting, not flexed on anyone, not talked about, yeah, you guys wish you could have our guys. No, it's like, hey, we're still not getting done on the trail. And to beat Georgia, to beat Alabama, to beat Texas, we need to hit the trail all the way they do. So it's not about, you know, getting two feet ahead, throwing up the peace sign, the peace sign, fumbling the balls, you go into the end zone. I'll have to start with Jackson. It's, let me finish this race. And then I'll do the talking. Do you ever wonder as you approach some thing as an adult, if you are going to approach it with a certain, youthful ignorance, like if you're going to have a certain approach to something that you might have had when you're 18 years old, right? Like I think about that sometimes. I feel like I was, I went through, you know, not to get too personal here. I've talked about this before. I went through pretty significant personal transformation my junior year of college going into my senior year of college. And, and the way that I spoke to people, I think changed. And I think the way that I approach situations and just my overall outlook on life changed. And I've had moments during my twenties and my thirties where I've wondered, am I reverting back to that? As I approach this situation in my life, this, this next step. And I wonder how much Lane thinks of that. I do. I wonder how much he thinks about the person that he was early in his career. And if there are moments in his day in which he says to himself, no, no, no, no, don't approach this this way. Don't assume that you know exactly how this is going to be run and what this team is going to do. Or don't take this shortcut in practice. Like, I wonder how much he comes face to face with those decisions of wanting to have that cockiness, that confidence and his abilities. While also not wanting to revert back to the person that became the punching bag of college football. And that's why, you know, it's, it's interesting the timing of, of that clip with he and fine bomb where, you know, he kind of claps back to Paul and, you know, Paul is saying how like, you know, he was the Miley Cyrus of college football. And Lane's like, yeah, you didn't get me fired, but my bosses were watching you on college game day when you said all of these things about me and then I got fired. So it is interesting to kind of see, 'cause it's not quite full circle, right? But it does feel like this transformation is reaching ahead. And like this year could change things drastically for Lane, despite the fact that in the last decade, his life has done nothing but continue to change. - Yes, that actually really resonates with me. I was just having to talk with somebody in my life. It was a little younger and I said, you know, we all grew up and we watched these movies and we watched wherever we imagined, okay, whenever I have my victories in life, it's gonna be this moment where, okay, I'm in the meeting and I say the smartest thing anyone's ever heard. And they all go, oh my God, this is the smartest thing ever. I'm gonna clap, here you go, here's your raise, here's your profession, and I'm like, you know, in reality, what it is, is most people are really just kind of thinking about their own world. And if you could do something to make their life a little bit easier, that will work out for you. But if you spend your life trying to chase these big moments, these big wins and these big celebrations, you end up really rubbing some people the wrong way. And I think that's actually a really good point as far as when you're young and you start to get into these like business meetings, you start to get an interview with people doing all that and you think, I'm doing this the way I would imagine this person does it. I'm doing it the way I see it in television. I'm doing it the way I think it should be done. Not the way I do it. And when you get older, you start to realize, this is the way I do this. - I think Lane has probably had to undergo that. With his dad, with Saban, with, you know, all these voices in his ear, all these great people that he's worked with throughout his career and figuring out what are the voices that you're listening to? Are you listening to the 25-year-old version of yourself, like all those different things? - Not an easy thing to juggle. I don't think it's a given that Ole Miss is able to live up to this preseason hype because it is just such a difficult thing to do. But at the same time, man, it feels like his time should be now. And by the way, his time does not mean win a national championship. That's not what I'm saying. We go on the record saying, not predicting Ole Miss to win a national championship, but Marty on record saying I think they get to the playoff, but they lose in a round of 12 game. I would still view that as a success if I'm an Ole Miss fan and living up to this preseason hype, this ultimate test for Lane. It's gonna be fascinating to see. - And I'd say I'm this really quick 'cause I haven't wasted too much time today. I do wanna say this when you're talking about the top five team here, you know, that is a little bit interesting because back in the day, you could have, I mean, back in the day, this last year, you could have a season, okay, like Alabama is 2019 or 2022, where you missed the playoff, right? But you finished technically top five, right? Because one of the teams jumps down or stuff like that. Therefore, you are a top five team who finishes top five. Well, now, I mean, if you're a home field team and you're ranked one and you lose to, you know, but at large team, not saying that that's like given necessarily, but it could be right a day. What does that mean, right? Like, that's what they, they, to talk about the video game again, but dude, in the, like I, it was two loss LSU versus three loss Ohio State in a home playoff game. I was like, this is not, this is how it's gonna be. And like, it's, it's the concept of, you gotta just keep your guys motivated, not let the wind out of your sails because your season is so far from over when the playoff starts that you may think to yourself, oh my gosh, we got old most of the playoff. This is the first time we've ever done this. And then you have, you know, at large team come up and whoop you, if it's Memphis or something, suddenly your season is an abject failure, you wish you were back in the toasty, those bowl or whatever. Final rankings are gonna be a mess. - Yeah. - It'd be so difficult to figure out, especially if it gets some of those first round upsets and stuff like that. Like, well, it happens if that 13 and O team loses and, you know, their first playoff game or something like that. Like, all right, well, they didn't even make the round of four, they're not a top 14, even though they're coming in as the number one seed or something like that. Yeah, that's a good point. Could be a lot of room for interpretation. - Yeah. - Anything else, I think we got pretty much covered. That was a lot of stuff that we're definitely not gonna learn about ball games. - Yeah, no, I think that's a good way to kick it off, man. - Yeah, as we say. - Just in case you don't listen to the end of the pod, we will not have a pod later this week. This will be the last, I promise this is gonna be the last week during the season, which we only have one pod going on a little family vacation, kind of the last hurrah before, where basically mid-season mode coming back when we'll be in, you know, full go in August with tons of camp updates and stuff like that. So yeah, we're gonna take a little bit of a trip up to Chicago, see some family, enjoy a little bit of downtime, gonna see Cubs game on Friday. - Heck yeah. - Or to that, getting it regularly for the first time since 2015. Very, very excited. So I couldn't be the most recent of us to have gotten it regularly. That feels disrespectful, what you gotta get in there. - It does, it does, yeah. - You going actually made me be like, all right, let's. - Kind of, we didn't make this happen, okay? - 'Cause it's a pizza. - Enough. - And you know what, you very much deserve this, based on everything you know you can be dealing with, everything, and you know, I'll keep my Alabama recruiting conspiracies to myself. If you guys have any football thoughts, leave Connor alone, he's gonna be having family baby time. Don't ask him who his third string left guard is on the all SEC team, please. 'Cause he's gonna have to come back and deal with my ass immediately. And I will have several days to think of dumb things to ask him and new conspiracies. So just leave him alone. - I love all you, but please don't text me about a verbal commitment, just don't. - Don't have time, don't have time. - I texted you that Alabama recruiting conspiracy because you had COVID. I was like, I'm the worst friend on earth, he doesn't care about this. But see at least I'm aware, right? At least I'm like, hey, man, I didn't leave it on red. I didn't leave it on red, I loved it on responding to it. - You were like, (laughs) - Anyway, so yeah, like I said, you deserve it, man. Like give football off your brain, like, you know, enjoy your summertime pro. Like I said, summertime is real. I'm really excited for you to go back, that's cool. - Can't wait, so yes, appreciate your grace. We still have tons of stuff on YouTube. All right, let's kick it to Doug. Great conversation, big 10 ICC debates. A lot of disagreement, a lot of disagreement, but like being able to have some different perspectives on this show and Doug certainly provides it. So, here's Doug. - I'm not excited to be joined by a very special guest. It is Doug Lemmery's, Doug. Did I pronounce your last name correctly? Because I've been seeing it for nine years and I feel like I've never actually had to come up with the pronunciation guide for it. - Yeah, no, join the club. I've heard it every way possible. The only people who ever nailed it, I used to cover Major League Baseball back with the Montreal Expos still existed and so I would go up the Montreal. They'd be like, oh, Mr. Good. And then they'd try to speak French to me and I'm like, listen, dude, it's just a name. So, it's Les Maurice, like you have a dog named Maurice and you tell him to lay. - Okay. - Something I'll never forget. - Doug, Les Maurice, just lay down. Just chill, Maurice. - Yeah, that's it. - You got nowhere to be. - And now, when you get a dog, you're gonna be tempted to name a Maurice, just wait. - Just lay, Maurice, you'll be fine. Just chill, yeah, exactly. So, you are doing all things Northern football with Kings of the North and I'll set the stage for kind of today's discussion because I have a feeling we're not gonna agree a ton, but that's okay. - Before the yelling starts, it's so pleasant right now. - So, it wasn't as pleasant on Twitter probably when we interacted for the first time. You tweeted about how nine of the 10 champs in the playoff era were Bama or beaten by Bama and that SEC dominance is a myth in that it was Saban dominance. We kind of went back and forth so you threw out the idea, let's make this a home and home. So, my turf today first, let's start right there. Explain yourself with the SEC dominance is a myth point. - Yeah, so my point is, I think Nick Saban is the greatest coach in college football history and I think he could have done what he did at a number of Blue Bloods. I think if he had been the coach at Texas, I think if he had been the coach at Florida State, I think if he had been the coach at Ohio State, I think if he had been the coach at Penn State, right? I mean, it's not Notre Dame, right? It's not 50 schools and it's not, it's not like Alabama didn't have a part of this. Alabama is obviously one of the great teams in college football, but I felt like a lot of the SEC absorbed Saban for a decade and that it was Nick Saban's individual excellence as a coach, as a recruiter, as a culture builder, as a tactician, that really is what drove the, I don't want to call, I hate the word narrative, 'cause it's facts or facts, right? But I feel like some chunk of what people think about the SEC, a decent sized chunk is that Nick Saban was awesome and then people just assumed that like, well, if you're in the conference with Nick Saban, then you must be awesome too. Now, I'm not saying the SEC is not good, but my point is that the gap in a non- Saban world, I think the gap between the SEC and the Big Ten or Southern football and Northern football is not nearly as big as many people would think it is, because it has been about Nick Saban in Alabama setting the standard. It was either Bama winning or you had to beat Bama on the road there. And so I think we are entering a world where we are not going to see the same kind of SEC dominance because a huge part of it all along was one guy at one program and he's gone. - I think that's my point. - Yeah, and look, obviously, like it is the standard. Saban was the tide that lifted the SEC pun very much intended and there's a reason why this run of SEC dominance coincides with Saban arriving at Alabama. The point I would push back on though is that since Saban arrived in Tuscaloosa, you can just, and the point that I pushed back on on Twitter was that if you just treated Alabama as an independent for the 17 years and said, they don't belong to the SEC, the SEC still would have had more national titles than the rest of the conferences combined. And it still took beating Alabama, which if there was only one team that was capable of doing that, yeah, I'd get it. I'd fully understand it. I'd say, all right, well, and LSU was the only one that did it, but Georgia did it at different points. Auburn did it at different points. Florida did it during a time in which, obviously Alabama was still finding its footing and then we know what happened with urban, but I think that's more so where I pushed back on it and say if you took other teams, is if you took other conferences best team, like take Ohio State from the big time. What's the big 10 in the 21st century? Take Clemson away from the ACC. What's the ACC in the 21st century? It's a team that's got one national title. Like what's the Pac-12 if you take away the glory years of USC? I think you can do that with every single conference and it's still, you can look at what's around it. And the SEC has done a better job than others have of showing that it is more than one team deep, despite the fact that to your point, that one team obviously allowed other teams in the conference to elevate. - You said like Georgia has beaten Alabama. You know, many times Georgia beat BM and SEC title game in its history, and an SEC title game in its history, none. - Well, and the SEC title. - It has never beaten Alabama in an SEC title game. Never, never, never, never, never, and they beat them in a national championship game when Bama was out of receivers and Bryce Young was like in the backyard playing catch with himself. So since Bama's first title, the last 15 years, we'll start with Bama's first, I'm not trying to massage numbers, like your numbers are right, these numbers are also right. 15 years since Bama's first title in '09, Bama's six titles, the rest of the SEC four, the ACC three, the big 10 two. So the SEC has more. But if you said it's like, Oh man, the SEC, they're kicking, but baby, they've got four, and the big 10 has two. It's like, okay, well, I mean, I don't feel like that's the conversation most college football fans have. And like nobody got past Bama, like the whole point is that everybody made their mark. Clemson got over the top 'cause they beat Bama, right? They lose them in the national title game and then they got to go beat Bama and they do it. Ohio State got over the top. I feel like they beat Oregon in the national title game. That was fine. We always talk about up here in the North, it's like that's like the Olympics in 1980, the US hockey team beat the Russians in the semis. They beat Finland in the finals, no offense to Oregon, Oregon's Finland. You got to beat the Russians, man. That's the game, that's the defining game in the modern post Woody Haze interval. Ohio State beating Bama. It's, but it's not beating the SEC, it's not. But I feel like some people think it is. Like the SEC chance, SEC, SEC is really Nick Saban, Nick Saban, and the reason it matters. And I agree with your point, okay? We play in the game of like take out the best team and then now we're just gonna discuss who's the best conference two through 16. Okay, I understand when I'll do that. But Saban left. So that's why it's relevant. Like for me to come on here and be like, "Well, what if you took out Nick Saban?" It's like, well, you didn't. He's sitting here, I couldn't make this argument in 2020. - What if you didn't have Saban? - It's like, well, we do have Saban, shut your hole. Well, now you don't. So I'm trying to use the past to look forward. And my point is, I think it's gonna be even going forward. I'm not trying to say the North is better, but I think going forward it's even 'cause Saban's gone. - The to bore era and all the eyeballs on that, obviously gonna play a huge part in whether that comes to fruition or not. I think if you wanna look beyond the national title thing during the Saban era, you can find other things that point to more on the side of SEC dominance than not. In the playoff era, the SEC went to 26 and 11 in New Year's Six Bulls. Big 10, 16 and 13. When Big 10 and SEC teams faced off in New Year's Six Bulls, you can probably think of the two times that an SEC team lost. Do you think of all seven of the times that the SEC team won? Because the SEC is seven and two in those instances against Big 10 schools in New Year's Six Bulls in the playoff era. You know them. They were bookended these last two years. Michigan beats Bama, Ohio State beats Bama. That's it. And that to me speaks more so to the depth of the conference and why I'll always push back on this notion of like, yeah, yeah, it's one champ, it's everybody else. There have been years like that. 2016 is a really good example, where the rest of the SEC was down. It was a Bama team that was trying to still kind of figure things out, had a really dominant defense, but was figuring things out with Jalen Hertz a quarterback. The rest of the conference quite frankly wasn't that good. You can find individual years like that. But if we're still looking at some of the parts throughout the playoff era, that's why I think the SEC continues to get the benefit of the doubt. - Your stats are true, right? And I do think, I mean, I used to be obsessed with Big Ten bull performance. Oh my God, I was like, this is the deciding factor. Like, okay, this. And, you know, we've clearly gotten away from that with opt outs and like kind of, which is why part of the reason I'm so excited for the 12 team playoff. 'Cause we're gonna, well, I think we're gonna have a much better argument about this kind of thing, because we're gonna have games that matter and we're gonna be able to figure it out. So I can't win an argument when you have, you know, playoff bowl game stats that say the SEC has a much, much better record than the Big Ten. I do think as we look forward, like this is, I think based on past history, which is fair, what else do we have to go on? But like right now, the team that was in the preseason poll in the SEC to finish fourth in the SEC preseason poll was Ole Miss, right? The team picked to finish fourth and the Big Ten doesn't do an official poll because they're afraid of hurting people's feelings. So I'm gonna play. - So dumb. I hate that. - So dumb. So I started a media poll in 2011, and they started doing it. I did it at my old stop, but I did another one here. We had the most voters of any of the polls. So I use our poll. The fourth place team was Michigan, was defending national champs, right? So like right now, if we're talking like depth at the top, like why should anyone think that there's greater depth at the top of the SEC than there is greater depth at the top in the Big Ten? And I think we can have a great conversation about where Ohio State, Oregon, and Penn State are right now compared to Georgia, Texas, and Alabama. Like I think we can have a great conversation about that. My shorthand for this season is Georgia, Texas, Oregon, Ohio State. I think they're the four best teams. But I feel like a lot of teams like Old Miss and LSU and Texas A&M for a time have sort of like absorbed SEC greatness when it's like, is it really there? Paul Feinbaum went on a rant about James Franklin, you're winning 10 games, nobody cares, do something better than 10 games. Do you know how many teams? James Franklin's won 10 games at Penn State five times in 10 years. Nobody in the SEC, current SEC other than Bama, Georgia, and Oklahoma have won 10 games for five, five times in the last 10 years. Like LSU and Texas A&M and Florida and Old Miss and a bunch of teams, Texas, would kill to win 10 games a year, right? So like, but that's, I think when Paul Feinbaum says something like that, that's this SEC absorption of like, oh, Penn State stinks or whatever, it's like, look in your own backyard. Look at that second tier in your own backyard. Why is that better than what the Big Ten does? And if the answer can't be 'cause Nick Saban's good, 'cause A, that never meant that Texas A&M and Florida and LSU were good, and B, now he's gone. - I get where you're coming from. And I understand the depth conversation. I think the depth between the Big Ten and the SEC, especially at the top, is relatively close. I could push back on your point by saying, well, are we just gonna discount Ohio State and Mizzou because the team that was picked to finish six in the SEC, beat the crap out of the team that's picked to finish to win the Big Ten, that's Ohio State. So you could find those examples, those cross examples, Penn State Ole Miss last year, where they're like, line it up. If we wanna talk about opt outs and stuff like that, I fully get it. But it's like, there are different arguments to be made for the depth of the conference. And in given years, the Big Ten will have more teams than the SEC and the College World Plow. I fully agree with that. Here's what we'll talk about. Fine, Bob, one of his rants that he had the other day that made the rounds. You probably have a reaction to this. True or false? If the coach of an SEC program that's gone seven consecutive years without making a bowl game, or beating a single ranked team, got up to the podium at Media Days, and spoke about the SEC needing four playoff teams every year because it was the NFL of college football, the eyes in your head would have just rolled all the way back because that's what Matt Rule did. And yes, he's not responsible for all seven of those bowl-less seasons for Nebraska. But I don't really care about necessarily the what that was said. I support his point. I just would have rather heard it from James Franklin and Ryan Day. And fine, Bob didn't necessarily articulate that the way and the way that I chose to. But that's more so the issue that I have. People would have ripped an SEC coach if they had been in that spot, like what Matt Rule came out and said, talking about playoff, you know, playoff spots. When Nebraska hasn't sniffed a playoff berth or anywhere close to that during these last seven seasons. - I don't like, so Lang Kiffin can't talk. How many SEC coaches can't talk then because like they've never really done anything. Like who are we allowing to talk? What has Brian Catley done at LSU? You can't reference Notre Dame. By the way, whenever the SEC needs a good coach that come up North to get one, right? If I think we've, have we noticed that? Nick Saban, son of the North, by the way, right? Urban Meyer, son of the North. Kaylin DeBore, straight from Washington. Brian Kelly, straight from Notre Dame. So like, we know, we know how you guys go about your business when you need somebody to really get it done. Where are we looking? Oh, we're looking up. Okay, so like I just think it's a, like I think it's like a, that's like a hive. Like how dare you, how dare the Nebraska coach put, he didn't even like come after the SEC, but like how dare the Nebraska coach. Nebraska's won a national title more recently than like a lot of teams at the SEC's. We're gonna talk about the mid 90s and riding co-tales and how that's not propping yourself up. Matt Rule doesn't get to take credit for that. No, no way, no, Nebraska's 90s relevance doesn't give Nebraska the right to talk about being represented properly in the 12 team playoff era. So who's relevant in the SEC then? Like who's relevance matters? Who's relevance, like how far back does it, 'cause if we're gonna be relevant, like Bama's been really relevant, but their guy left, right? Georgia just won. LSU's won recently, but ended up firing the guy who won it and hiring Notre Dame's coach. Like what, like who gets to be relevant in it? I thought it was an odd thing for the South. Like you really have to go out of your way. I felt like to get mad about that. Like why is the South offended by the Nebraska coach saying that? Like what's so- - Because it's in Nebraska. If it's Ohio State or if it's Penn State, nobody reacts like that. If it's Kirk Ference, I don't care. Because Kirk Ference is the elder statesman of the Big Ten. That's fine. He's been on that stage. He's seen the elite competition. Matt Rule has faced three SEC teams in his entire time as a head coach. He's 0 and 10 career against AP top 10 teams. I don't wanna hear about Matt Rule saying that, oh, well, you definitively know that this is the strength of the entire sport and that this landscape. Nebraska's been getting beat up by everybody, okay? If you get beat up by everybody, you don't have the right to come out and say, oh, we know which elite is better than that elite. And that's more so the issue that I have. Ryan Day comes out and says it, sign off. No, no problem. You've been on that stage. You've faced teams from coast to coast. James Franklin, same deal. But Matt Rule, uh-uh. No way. - Okay. This is part like, I don't, like I don't know why the South is on edge. Like, I'm not like dipping down and trying to find how dare Mark Stoop say something that is not even really about the North but is like sort of tangentially related to. How dare, like, let's go get Mark Stoops and be mad. I don't know. I thought it was weird. I felt like that to get that mad about it, 'cause Nebraska's, Nebraska needs to be better. Like, Nebraska has the longest bowl, bowl-less streak in college football. Nebraska definitely needs to be a bit better. It's really gonna help the Big Ten if Nebraska gets better. But, you know, he's won everywhere he's gone, except the NFL, just like Nick Saban. So, like, I don't know. I'm glad that the Nebraska coach has confidence in his conference. I'm not sure why the SEC got fired up about it. That's not, I don't know. The Big Ten needs more chess pounding. - Yeah, but someone pounded. So, the Nebraska coach pounded and everybody in the South went crazy. - I don't think everybody in the South went crazy. I think Paul-- - You got mad and Paul Finebaum got mad. You're both mad. I don't know anyone else in the South, except you two guys. And I actually don't know Finebaum. And I've known you for 20 minutes. And you're both angry. I didn't come on here with, like, how dare Lane Kiffin? 'Cause I don't know what he said. I don't care. Like, let's let Ole Miss be relevant on the field before I even pay attention to what Lane Kiffin says. So anyway, that's all. I don't know. Maybe Lane Kiffin's popping off about the Big Ten, but I haven't heard about it. - Get ready for Lane Kiffin and take that Ohio State job if it opens up. Just saying. (laughing) - That's the take that we're squatting on in the preseason. - You are squatting on that? - Oh, no, no, no. Oh, squat away. No, no, no. If the Ohio State job comes open, it's Mike Raible. It is not Lane Kiffin. - Lane Kiffin, you can't be serious about that. Lane Kiffin. - Ross Bjork is the AD now. Ross Bjork is the AD, remember that. That changes things. That, if it's Gene Smith that we're talking about, making that higher, that's a different discussion. I think Ross Bjork changes the complexion of that job and the national search of what it's going to look like. I would not be surprised if Mike Raible got that job if that ended up happening. I think he will go far and wide. - Lane Kiffin was born in Minnesota, by the way. Son of the North. So he does have roots up here. When his dad was coaching with the biking. So son of the North, wow. If that's how the South is thinking. (laughs) - I don't represent the South. Just because, no, you don't, what's the name of your show? - I represent myself and my voice in the South. I don't represent the entire South. I guarantee you all miss fans are livid from me saying that I guarantee you there are plenty of other SEC fans who are upset that I would say. - No, if you have the name of the region in your show, you represent the entire region. I'm here on behalf of the North. - There we go. - Here's the thing. The North doesn't have to come get Southern coaches all the time when they're looking for coaches the way the South has to come get Northern coaches. So like, I don't know. I'm not saying, you know, somebody up here wouldn't take Kirby Smart, but we're good without Lane. I'm telling you, brother, we are good. - You know the last time. - No offense. I think he's a great coach. He's not getting the Ohio State job. - You know the last time that an SEC coach willingly left for a job outside of the conference? - I don't. - I don't. - James Franklin. Vanderbilt depends state. - Yeah. - So they might get him from the North. - Exactly. They might get him from the North, but they don't leave once they get here or if they do leave, it's because they get fired because they weren't good enough. - Well, because everybody in the South fires somebody in three years because God forbid that someone take time to build a program the way Jim Harbaugh, Jim Harbaugh would have gotten fired in the South. He never would have been able to do what he did in Michigan. He would have gotten fired. And somehow the South wears that at a badge of honor. The South is like, oh, we're impatient. We're impatient, pewm. We're the South. - Should Jim have gotten, should he have gotten more time? Who should have gotten more time in the South? That didn't get enough time. - I don't know. But it seems like when people do get fired, you get excited about it, right? You just said, you said Jim Harbaugh would have gotten excited. - Yeah, no, that's a good point. - You got fired and you're excited, yeah. - Yeah, that's a good point. - It's a little more patient. And I think the South views that as like lower standards or not wanting to win. And I think the North is just like a little more like, okay, like we're not gonna freak out as fast as people in the South freak out. - I agree with that. Couldn't agree with that more. You know what I think sometimes the North lacks though. And you're a good person to speak on this because you're part of this conversation. You represent the entire region now. - I do. - The North lacks year round discourse. The South has that in spades. And some might look at that as obsession, but I always bring up the example, during those lean Arkansas years, which Chad Morris couldn't be an SEC team. You know what they wanted to talk about every single Monday throughout the entire season, not just in the college football season? The rest of the SEC. You know what you don't do in Big Ten is go in early March and hop on a show in Piscataway to talk about whether or not Iowa's offense is gonna be better. Nobody does that. And there is a big, big difference. Whereas like in the South, those discussions are facilitated. And everybody kind of makes a mockery of SEC media days because there's 1200 media members that are credentialed there who are doing radio shows on Radio Row talking about the conference from far and wide. It's not just getting there on your day. It's, hey, we're gonna have these conference discussions. We take pride in that. Why isn't that there in your estimation in the same way in the northern part of the country? - So one I think is there's more to do. And so like good or bad, but that's not an excuse. I think people should be passionate about college football. I love college football passion. That's why we started this show. I would like the north to have more of a cultural identity, to be more bonded in their commonality and to have their like the discourse around like, everybody hates their rival, right? But I would like the north to save some of their hate for the South that it's like, we understand like Oregon hates Washington and Ohio State hates Michigan and Michigan and Michigan State hate each other and Iowa and Nebraska and Minnesota and Wisconsin, all that. But also let's find commonality in the North and then let's like, let's root for each other when someone in the North is taken on the South because if somebody in the North wins, that helps us. It makes us look better. Hey, we lost to those guys, but then they went out and looked really good. So I don't think there's an excuse. I think you're exactly right. I don't know why the North does it. And I even at Big Ten Media Day is one of the Big Ten to pound its chest a little bit more. The Big Ten loves to talk about libraries. I want Tony Petit to get up there and say, hey, did anyone watch the national championship game last year? Who was in it? Who was in it? Two teams currently in the Big Ten. Take that and they don't. So that's why we started our show to do it. There is lots of this discourse in the South. There should be more of it in the North. I want there to be more of it because I want Northern college football fans to have pride in what the North does to understand the differences between the North and the South. It doesn't make excuses, but let's celebrate what the North does well. And let's say like, we like the way we do it. There's a lot of similarities between Northern football and Southern football. There's also some things that aren't so similar. So let's have pride in what the North does. And let's have a 365 discourse. Good, call us out. You're right. Rutgers fans, how come on a Monday in February, we can't talk about Iowa's defense. By the way, Rutgers is basically the Iowa of the East Coast. Like they should be talking about Iowa all the time. You're exactly right. I would love that. I would love that. But we have to find commonality. There is commonality in the South. When you say Southern football, do you have a picture of it immediately? When you say Southern or SEC football? Do you know what that means? I think of a like a chilly fall day. People probably weigh too many sundresses. I basically just picture the Grove, more or less when I think of the image of Southern college football. Yeah, you could probably come up with something like that that just covers the entire South as a region. Why doesn't the North, do you think the North has it in the same way? I don't think they do. My daughter is in college. She took a history of college sports class and like she was something to the professor and like oh my dad's in this. And she said my dad started to show about Northern college football. And he said what's Northern college football? And I was like exactly. Yep. Because if it was a show like, I had doing a show about Southern college football. I don't think anybody would say, what's Southern college football? So why, the North is falling short, has fallen short. People should love this sport year round. Do you agree it's the second most popular sport in America? College football. Has to be. Has to be. And it fells to be in college football. And it fells to monster. It's a monster, it's a monster. But this is better than the NBA. It's better than Major League Baseball. It's better than golf. It's better than tennis. It's better than racing. It's better than anything else. And it's only going to get better because the 12 team playoff is going to be redolk. So let's go North. You guys have set the standard. Southern fans have set the standard for passion. So just the way that I think the North is going to raise its level of football to compete with the South in the next decade, let's the raise level of passion in the North to have the same pride in our teams and our sport year round the way that fans in the South do. You guys are the example for us. I think Greg Senke does a good job of embracing that. Great job. As great as Jim Delaney was, arguably one of the most influential people, not just in college sports, but in all of sports in the 21st century during his run as Big Ten Commissioner. I remember going from SEC Media Days directly to Big Ten Media Days in 2018. He gets up at the podium, and all of a sudden he's talking about crap like libraries and stuff like that. And I'm like, you just watched your Big Ten champ, your conference champ, get left out at the college football playoff for the third consecutive year. You should be pounding the table like your Gorbotrop. And instead, you're up there just telling a buy. Oh yeah, really, and then the SEC is getting jabs from like James Franklin about the number of conference games that they play. And I'm thinking to myself, well, hey, the SEC has figured out the best way to be able to do this. And instead of taking these passive aggressive Midwest shots at the SEC and talking about how you were robbed a spot in the college football playoff, you didn't get what you wanted. What a joke. The system needs to be tweaked. You're up there giving these weird paths on the back that I'm just like, this doesn't grow your brand in the way that you think it does. And until that changes, people aren't going to think differently of you. - You're 100% right. Be aggressive aggressive. I can't believe the Big Ten didn't go for 20 minutes about Michigan Washington. - Yeah. - Because here's the thing. We like books, you've got a big books guy. - Yeah, a couple, these are just for show. - These are just for show. - Learning is good, but we didn't realign, we didn't tear apart the fabric of college football 'cause of learning. We didn't. We did it because of TV ratings driven by football. So why are we pretending? When it's football media days, let's talk about football. We get it. The libraries are beautiful. I want the Big Ten to step into the modern world in that way. And I do think with NIL, with the portal, I think there are some Northern teams and maybe more urban areas that are positioned maybe to take advantage of NIL compared to some of the Southern schools that might just be in less populous. I think there is a potential changing of the guard. And it's not that the North is gonna dominate, it's that it's gonna be even. But like, why don't they say that? Like, why are we, why does the North hide from it? I feel like sometimes the North is almost like embarrassed to be good at football 'cause it's like it shouldn't be the most important thing. It should be about university hospitals and life. Of course, but guess what, brother, we're here. I don't want to tell you. So football matters, you change your whole world. The Big Ten stretches from ocean to ocean not because of libraries. So let's go. I think the football in the North can compete. I think the chestiness needs to come along a great deal. - Everybody needs a fine bomb. Everybody needs one. You're pointing directly at yourself. There you go. - Someone's got to be it. That's our shorthand. Fine bomb on the North. We want to be that, we want to be that. Because I like a home for the discourse. A home for the discourse. And it doesn't mean that you kiss everybody's butt in the North, you hold them accountable. You hold everybody in the North accountable to be as good as they can be. But you also have an eye. You see college football through a Northern lens, right? And it's like, guess what, the SEC is good. It's not as good as a lot of people make it out to be. The gap isn't as wide. And somebody has to stand up for the North and I feel like the Big Ten sometimes doesn't do it themselves. Which is why they stop their poll. They stop their poll. - We don't want to hurt Rutgers feelings. We don't want to do a poll. So I've done the poll. So now I'll do the show. Don't be afraid, Big Ten. You have good teams. Let's talk about it. They don't have libraries and feelings. It's the Big Ten. No discourse on the Big Ten network. SEC network has that in spades. And you can get up there and say things that they're going to piss people off. That fine mom-kiffin interaction that happened at media days, there is a 0.0% chance that you would ever get a reaction like that at Big Ten media days. And that's part of it too. Is that they have given their personalities, the forum to have editorial control. Now, it might come off as like, hey, they just gas up others all the time. And that's all they do. You actually look at what fine mom says, not just on SEC network airwaves. We're like, hell attack jumo fisher, hell attack link-kiffin. His beef with Nick Saban, like where he calls out on SEC network airwaves, Nick Saban for not arresting a player or not suspending a player who was arrested. That doesn't happen in other places. Big Ten network didn't even talk about the Jerry saying a dusky scandal. Like, that room for editorial discourse is only facilitated by SEC network right now where it stands. And even Davos leading himself is frustrated that the ACC doesn't have some of that. Until that changes though, that's going to be, I think it's going to continue to be a big separator in media. Say what you want about media and the coverage, but I just think that stuff matters and I see it each and every day in the SEC. I want fans to be happy. That is the number one goal for me. I want college football fans to be happy. And to be happy, I think you have to understand the goals, the limitations, the parameters around your own team, and then I think you want your team held accountable, right? So, but you also want to celebrate, you can't be mad. There are too many Ohio State fans mad within 11-win season. A discourse that is like Penn State stinks 'cause they're 10 and two every year. Like, I want fans to understand the potential, but also the realities of Northern football, right? So, I think the South in holding their own team accountable, I don't think they've held Kirby Smart accountable. I have not liked the discourse around the off field issues at Georgia. And I did not like that he got 11 questions on camera at SEC media days and not a single one was about that. I understand he had a session off to the side with reporters and did talk about that. But compared to what happened with Urban Meyer around the Zach Smith stuff in 2018 and the way that the North and the 10 and me and my colleagues held Urban Meyer accountable, I don't think the South has been doing that. We've been trying to be doing it on our show, but like, we can't do it, it's your team. So, I feel like if I think the sport is changing so much, and there's so much off field stuff, I think we can get swamped by it. I think the two legitimately biggest stories right now in college football are that the greatest coaching college football history retired and what does that mean for everybody? And that the presumptive heir to the throne, what has been the best team in the last three years has an incredible off field problem that is ongoing and repeated and continuing. And like, we end up talking about is it gonna be a 22% revenue share or 21% revenue share? I get it, but like in normal times, those are two earth shattering stories. And from up here, I don't feel like Georgia has been held accountable the same way that some other schools in the past have been held accountable. If you wanna disagree with me on that, maybe you have a better handle on that, but that's the view from here. But I do think like on the field, you've gotta hold teams accountable. I think the South can hold a coach too accountable sometimes if they wanna give him three years and get fired because you didn't win 10 games, right? I think patience is good, too much patience is bad. But I like the idea of talking about the sport year round and saying like, we know who we are and this is who we wanna be. And if you don't get it done, we're gonna do something about it to an extent. - I will defend the coverage of the Kirby stuff, at least from what's within our control. First thing we talked about on today's show, Matt Hayes, top training story on our website right now is basically calling him, calling Kirby like, he's urban 2.0. - No, that's what I said too. Yeah, he's not Nick, he's urban. Which time we'll tell, if that plays out, because I think you can find examples, if we wanna go back to the 90s Nebraska examples, go look at how Tom Osborne was as a disciplinarian and look how that played out for him, yet he's considered one of the four best coaches in the history of college football and walks on water in the state of Nebraska, despite the fact that he was anything but a disciplinarian during his time and in many ways paid the price for him. - I will say you didn't let me reference the Osborne, Nebraska era for winning, but you're gonna reference it for discipline. I just wanted to note that. - One, three titles in four years, one of two coaches in the last 70 years to be able to do that Nick Saban being the other one. Trust me, yeah, I've spent time out there and understand very well that it's God and Tom Osborne. Probably that order. And the notion that you have to be this disciplinarian or else like you're just gonna fall apart in the way that urban did in 2010, like sadly, I mean, I wish I could say that that we're not the case, but unfortunately there's been so much incentive to not necessarily being that person and Kirby might be benefiting from that as we speak. And until he loses those games, that's probably going to be the thing that we move past from once the games actually start. - But all we can do is add a butt to every time we think about Georgia. So like we can't control whether what happens with him in his career, we don't know what's gonna happen on the field with Georgia, but we can make sure the discourse around Georgia includes that because or we just don't care about it. I was shocked because I think it's a different thing to make someone the accountable on camera in a setting where the whole college football world is watching and 11 questions and nobody asked. He would have gotten asked about it up here. - Fair, definitely fair. Okay, last thing for you, speaking of Georgia, can you look into my eyes and say with a straight face that Georgia's going nine and three and missing the playoff? - Georgia's going nine and three and missing the playoff. I think they're gonna lose to Texas. I think they have a chance to lose to Bama. I think right, the Tennessee game, I'm very curious about Clemson. I think Georgia, the first title was one of the greatest defenses in college football history, right? The 21 title, that's what Georgia was. The 22 title, and again, I had a close view of this. I was at that game against Ohio State is that's invented by the end of the year was a stone cold killer, a killer. Like that he stepped on that field and led that drive at the end is like, okay, 'cause that game's not in the 20s, that game's in the 40s. So, two titles in two really different ways, right? So, is this Georgia team, does it have one of the best defenses in college football history? They have a lot of good players, I don't know. That's a high standard. And are we sure Carson Beck is a stone cold killer of the way Stetson Bennett was? I know some people think he's the best quarterback in college football. I think quarterback is down in the sport this year. Like generally, I don't know, there's not a Trevor Lawrence or Bryce Young or Caleb Williams, you know, I think it's a little down. So, I don't know about those two things. And then, if that's the case, their schedule is ridiculously tough in a world where we felt like last year for two months, we didn't know about Georgia. Now, they'd be some top 25 teams in November, I know that, but they also got to the game they had to win and they didn't win it. So, you know, there was a lot, was there a talk last year that like it's Georgia versus the field? - For the national champ. I thought that was a vibe for a while. Is that a fair characterization? - Yeah, I think that's fair, especially when you're trying to 3P in the previous year, losing 15 players, the NFL draft, and then going 15 and 0 with a 65 to 7 national championship, changes how we talk about your year to year with what you lose. - I thought that was the vibe. I thought that was wrong. I didn't have that vibe at all. I thought Georgia was good. I did not think that there was anything that proved they were heading shoulders above anybody. So, with the schedule significantly more difficult, and this is the thing about the SEC, it's like, do you have the best program who's gonna steamroll everybody, or do you have the best conference? Because if you think you have the best conference, man, I'm looking at that Georgia schedule, that is not a cake walk. So, I'm curious, and that's where I am right now. It's not 'cause I'm a hot take artist, I am wrong all the time. I also picked Ohio State to go nine and three in Ryan Day's first year with Justin Fields, and they went undefeated into the playoff. So, I have a terrible record on these things. But I think Texas is the SEC monster this year. I think Bama will take a step back 'cause you have to when you lose the greatest coach ever, but I think they still have the ability to bite people. And then I think there are enough other games on that Georgia schedule that are in the danger zone. So, and I really, I really am intrigued by the two second year quarterbacks in the SEC and Jackson Arnold, Oklahoma, Nico Yomalieva, Tennessee, and could one of those programs make a jump? And then if you think that could happen, if you think Texas is gonna be great, if you think Bama retained some part of being Bama, if you think LSU is gonna be good, you know, like, is the SEC gonna put six teams in? I don't know, right, they're not. So, that's how I get to nine and three, Georgia not in the playoff, you are more than welcome to run this back 4,000 times on your show, if and when this is wrong. But I don't think it's Georgia and everybody else, I don't. And I am also tipping the cap to how good Georgia was those two years. I don't think this Georgia team is as good as the two national championship teams. - Can we put a wager on this? Does that facilitate discussion? Is that, 'cause you can't just take nine and three and just be like, hey, we're not gonna, we're not gonna discuss anything. - So, what would you take? What would you take? 'Cause like for you to take Georgia makes the playoff and I take miss is like, all right, well, what are the odds on that? Like, if we do the odds, make or miss, we could do that. Or if you wanna stake a claim and then whose claim is closer, we could do that. And then do we wanna make, like do we wanna embarrass ourselves? Do we wanna, I'm just a humble podcaster. I don't have a ton of extra coin lying around. - No money, no money. I'll take 11 and one or better for Georgia in the regular season. You can have 10 and two or worse. So I'm giving you a good compromise. I won't just say nine and three. - It's very kind. - And when that's clinched, either way we have to start, we have to start one of our shows. - Yeah. - And I will say, look, if I am right, you will have to say I was wrong. I was wrong about Georgia. Connor O'Gara was right. And the South may know a thing or two. And if I am wrong, and if Georgia is 10 and two or worse, I will say North might know a thing or two about college football. I'll say Doug Lemorese was Laemorese, my bad. Doug Lemorese was right and I was wrong. And the North may know a thing or two about college football. How about that? - And I'll wear this hat. - Oh, look at that. Look at that. Well, that's a nice other hat. - We do a dog mentality segment multiple times on Kings of the North. So I have my hat ready. So I often wear it ironically, but I will wear it. So this is me wearing it ironically. Dog mentality. And then, but I'll wear it respectfully. I'll wear it respectfully. Georgia's good. That's me preparing to say that. Connor's right. Georgia's good. I was wrong. That's my, that's my-- - That's good. - You're talking that out ahead of time. Yeah. But otherwise, dog mentality is what I do. - I noticed you didn't say lion mentality. Dog mentality. - No, because like, there was a thing, do you know why I say dog mentality? Because there was a tweet from somebody who covered Georgia that Kirby was like at a charity bowling tournament. And they were like Kirby Smart stepped up, bold strike on his first ball and walked off the lane. Hashtag dog mentality. And I was like, okay, that's where we are. Like the guy, like we're gonna talk about mundane activities as being like the guy walks on water. Bold a strike in bowling dog mentality. I was like, okay, we're gonna seize on this. Did he have bumpers? - I mean, it wasn't legitimate strike. I just don't think it makes him, you know, the most powerful man in American sport 'cause he bold a strike. So anyway, dog mentality. - I've heard worse arguments, dog mentality, which is saying. - I got one 13 average when I was in eighth grade at bowling. So like, I know what I'm talking about. - Yeah, one 13's pretty good. That's not terrible. You better than that. Yeah, step it up. Doug, I appreciate this fun discussion. Looking forward to the other-- - Coming on our show, you're coming on our show. - I'm gonna have a long preamble, a disclaimer to share my background so that nobody accuses me of being an SEC mouth breather. We'll do that. - I love it. I love it. - Thanks, man. I will look forward to it and I appreciate you having me on. - Awesome, thank you. All right, let's close with some later of the week. Well, this guy's never been a later of the week for me but my gosh, what a week he has had already and hopefully he's gonna have several more great weeks. What's Snoop Dogg? Snoop Dogg at the Olympics is making me so jealous. He is living his best life in every possible way. And for those who haven't seen some of the clips that have come out where he was basically, like he was at opening ceremony, he looks like he's just like by himself having a time and he's doing stuff with NBC too where I don't know if he's a paid NBC correspondent or not. He was with Hoda just interviewing Simone Biles's family and just having just an absolute blast like show up to random broadcast. He's with Caleb Dressel's family. The call of him on badminton was incredible. Absolutely incredible. And I've thought to myself, man, I wish I could be Snoop Dogg because the Olympics had been on our house basically from Friday afternoon. They're probably still on maybe right now on the background, they'll be on tonight. I absolutely love the Olympics. I've talked about this before. Warren is really well versed in all things swimming and gymnastics and keeps up with a lot of the track stuff as well. So she's the one that's like, think of how much of my life I spent talking sports at her. And this is the rare instance in which she's the one providing the insights to me and she's really smart with this stuff. And so I absolutely love it. I cannot get enough Olympics content. Like the Leo Marchan swimming race, like in France with him like that, I know that's not an American thing, but how electric that building was for him. And I said, Lauren, I'm like, dang, Michael Phelps never got to be able to have an Olympics in America. And how cool would that have been? If he had been like in his home city or something like that, just like at the peak of his power and Marchan counts as an American because he went to Arizona State for a few years to learn from Michael Phelps as coach. So he's a defacto American as far as I'm concerned. That's a half metal for us. But yeah, man. - I'm like, Joe Envide, he was a French pie. - Ah, you. - Man, some of those jumpers, he was like, dude, are you betting your knees anymore? Is that, is that what she knows? - Dude, how about, how about KD at the point? I was, we were watching, I had the whole basketball game on on the other day as well. And I was reminded how good KD is. Even seeing that, shot out, friend of the program, Noah Eagle on the call. He's got to deal with Wayne Wade, who's just pretty insufferable. But other than that. - Why does Wayne Wade have to make everything about himself? - I, everything. - It could for him. I mean, he's lived a dream life, I guess. I don't know. He's with Gabby, that's the other thing. She makes his everything about his life anyway. Anyway. - Let's do one on the call. That's all I asked. - What's new on the call? - What's new on the call with Noah Eagle? No complaints here. - Yeah, I mean, I think the actual snoop dog just keeps wanting it life. He's the guy that there was Jacob like doing the side quest. And there was another one of those moments where there was a co-posted thing. Snoop Dogg's Instagram, Team USA Instagram, official Olympics Instagram. And it was Snoop Dogg carrying the torch with just hard MF bomb on there. And I was like, you've made it. You have MF the Olympics and they have accepted it. They've said, yes, thank you Snoop Dogg. We think this is good. That's the social media dream. To just be able to put your unedited rap track right in front of all this kids. I'm not kidding. I love that for him. He has completely changed his persona for my guy that was a real, real bad dude back in the day. And it has now completely just become a family man. He's done all the things. He's like coaching football. So yes, Snoop Dogg is a real like easy good dude. He's a good representative of America. - When I put on, and there'll be some parents that can relate to this. Sometimes I'll put on Cocomel and Pandora in the car and Snoop will just randomly be on tracks. - The parents, you know, I'm not gonna get on here and sing. I'm not gonna sing Snoop's part. But when Snoop comes on the Cocomel and Pandora in the car, you're like, that guy has turned a new leaf. He's in a very different place in life than what I was raised on. Like if Snoop came out in the car when I was a kid, just a little bit different, a little bit different. But yeah, living his best life right now. - Look, you told me that a little bit of like OG Conner trivia that your first album was Snoop Dogg, 2001 one with Dre. - Dre, yeah, Dre, 2001, which Snoop is on probably like, yeah, like six different tracks for that. Some of which, no, not some of which, all of which wildly inappropriate for a nine year old to be listening to, but my late cousin, Pat, talked to my mom and they do it and was like, oh yeah, it's not that bad. Go look at the track list. That bad, very much that bad. Better than me who is at that same time listening to just Slim Shady. So yes, and a famous Dr. Dre live in that I must repeat because it's so underratedly bad. Well, I'm creeping in, I'm creeping in, I'm creeping. But I dang the guy caught 'cause my beeper kept beeping. That was the type of lyricism that Snoop was carrying in that album. Anyway, he's so-- - Don't hit Andrew, don't hit Andrew. - I'm not, he's a great producer. I think that was an all-time album, but they both like crushed, oh, oh, this is my last movie 'cause I was kidding. This is also Olympic space. A guy that we have said, we're just, we're both exclusively haters of this guy, but I think we're out in the Olympics to make sure we focus, right? LeBron James, right? Let me tell you why LeBron James is my lad of a week. So coming off of this wild PR season where it's teamed in exactly, you know, a lot of the expectations, he got his son to be the first NBA Napo baby. He got broadly drafted. He's been having to deal with all that in Summer League while preparing for the Olympics. Goes to the Olympics and you just have that moment of man. It's so cool that we have LeBron James and nobody else does. Like, when you see the image of him like crossing the Delaware or whatever, where he's got the big American flag and the rain is coming down, it's like, you know, you guys can have your coach like, that's fine. You guys can have whatever you want. We still have this guy. We still have, you know, Katie, Steph, watching him and Steph run picket rolls and just do the two small thing is the craziest thing in the world. I love how the NBA has PR'd us into thinking that like America is now like fifth place in basketball because of all these European guys. And again, if he's on Team USA, he's an MVP and he's not playing well. So like, that's the thing is that, yeah, the game's global, it's more global number. I'm not saying it's not, but we still have LeBron James, Steph Curry, Katie, Anthony Edwards and like to see them be on the same team and to not have a reason to hate them because they're playing for my country. Like to see like the photo of him and get Serbia where he just put that dude in the dirt at Can't believe I was saying this, 39 years old. It is pretty impressive, unfortunately. I'm the biggest MJ stand there is. Right. It's unbelievable what he's doing. It's the head of steam that he gets before he's even at half court. And you already know and Dwayne Wade is already freaking out before he's even like dribbled past a three point arc. And you're just like, this guy is so unbelievably insane. And you're right, there is something, like I've spent so much of my life rooting against LeBron that getting to actually reform. It's kind of fun. It's kind of, yeah, everybody. Like nobody else has anything like that in his greatest Yokoaches. And I was like, man's plenty to learn. I was like, oh yeah, Yokoaches, he's like the best player in the world. Like he makes everybody on that Serbia team better, but they also, you see that guy that's sitting down there at the end of that Serbian bench, that's Plausage who was a bench player at Tennessee that everybody in the SEC hated. And that's a little bit different than having the end of the game. Yeah, exactly, Jason Tatum's at the end of the U.S. bench. And that guy was just the best player I've ever seen that won the finals. Yeah, so that's like the difference between the U.S. and even other countries that are competing, like even Canada, like Canada's loaded with, you know, Jamal Murray and Shay Gilges Alexander. They finally won their first Olympic game in 25 years or something. Oh my gosh. Yeah, which is crazy. I didn't realize it had been that long. So like they're having a moment, but I mean, it's USA versus everybody else, let's be honest. Yeah, it's the classical crowd crosses half court. You just imagine like, you know, some like Snoop Dogg music or some like metal music playing. And it's like, ah, you haven't quite seen this, have you? You've been in your league and you've told yourself, you're ready for this? But when Olabra gets downhill on you and you've never guarded him, it always goes in the same way. Doesn't it foul or not? It will go the same way. So yeah, super cool. Also, just one quick note on that. I love, I've always loved it at the end of which we've talked about it before. The fact that they just showed up on TV USA was like, hey, the number one option here and everyone was just like, oh, he's like, no, actually I'm gonna figure this out. He's so funny, man. Like it's just him, he's that's a good cause to answer. Obviously, just basically like throw a shade of cake. Clark was pretty funny. Watch the women, they're gonna cook too. So yeah, that's my Olympics recap. Yeah, Olabra, that one guy took a charge against him too. Which, I don't know what those bumps and bruises are like, but couldn't be me. Talking about building a statue. There's just a statue of this guy, this hope country taking a charge from Olabra. Just an official in the background. (laughing) Whoa! All right, like I said before, no pod later in the week. We're gonna come back fully refreshed. We'll be in mid-season form for the rest of the way. The rest of the way, that is the promise to you. We have gotten through the offseason. That is the good news. We have nothing but basically in-season pods. That's what I'm gonna call, even though it is just fall camp. If you have not, leave us a five-star review. Subscribe to our YouTube channel where you can watch every single episode of the Saturday on South Podcasts. Follow us on Twitter @BSCSPod, @SethOnSouth, @SethJogara, ad goes so hard. Thanks, guys. Bye, soon. (upbeat music) (upbeat rock music)
Fall camp is here! The guys have a breakdown of everything ... that we won't learn in fall camp (0:30). Kings of the North host Doug Lesmerises joined the show to discuss the Big Ten-SEC debate, including why the North needs a Finebaum, why this is critical juncture for Northern football and more. The guys close with an Olympics-heavy Lad of the Week (1:40:00).
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
