End Times Fascism (w/ Naomi Klein & Astra Taylor)
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This episode is a free-wheeling conversation with Naomi Klein and Astra Taylor about their superb (and superbly written) new book, End Times Fascism: And the Fight for the Living World. Both terms in its title—"end times" and "fascism"—are ones we've discussed at length in previous episodes, but what insights are gained from exploring their dynamic relationship, now? What is new about this combination? How does it help explain the rightwing coalition—religious fanatics, tech billionaires, and ethno-nationalists—now in power in the United States, and not only here? And what can we do to fight back and fight for the living world? We take up all these questions and more.
Listen again: "The Prayers and Prophecies of Pat Robertson," June 17, 2023
Sam's Brooklyn Book Fest Event
Sources:
Naomi Klein & Astra Taylor, End Times Fascism: And the Fight for the Living World (2026)
Marilynne Robinson, Gilead (2004)
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All right welcome listeners to episode 144 of Know Your Enemy. I'm Matt Sippen your podcast co-host And I'm here as always with my great friend, Sam at the Bell. Hi Matt. Hello My voice is a little froggy this morning because we were partying late into the night last night for my birthday It was a birthday week for you. I know it really was mostly because of your efforts, Sam Thank you for being such a wonderful friend See when I say my great friend, it's not an exaggeration or hyperbole I try to make up for my misdeeds at this time of year Listers, that's our dynamic as friends Sam And I would feel you about our perceived you know the for the failings that we think we inflict on the other and then make up For it with grand gestures like three times a year. I did get you a cool book very cool The first combined US edition new directions of the Berlin stories by Christopher Escherwood one of my favorite books And listeners, it is a gorgeous copy. I'm so happy you enjoyed it. Yes, I really did Well on that personal note as always on this podcast we juxtapose Pleasant personal experiences like that with the hell our world is sending into That contrast and this episode is it's it is kind of funny to say one of those conversations that was Incredible to have Sam We had so much fun, but it was about kind of the worst people and worst things imaginable And that's because we had on Naomi Klein and Astra Taylor to talk about their fabulous new book End times fascism and the fight for the living world I mean, it's true that it was a depressing conversation in many respects, although there's some profoundly Hopeful notes towards the end about how we fight back against what they describe as end times fascism And I will just say that for me personally It was a thrill to have both Naomi Klein and Astra Taylor on the show I know Astra's been on the show many times and she's more of a personal friend of ours But you know me Klein is like such a figure like I mean her books I feel like I read no logo like College when I was like doing anti sweatshop organizing and then her book the shock doctrine was so important She also wrote this changes everything capitalism versus the climate in 2014 I mean, I've just been reading her books since I've been reading books about the world and the left in particular Yes, I will say Sam Naomi's reputation it really comes through in this conversation in the sense that like there was a really lovely like wisdom and insight and kind of calm and clear Manipulation of things that it's not always easy to be calm and clear about that's true of both of them, really Yes, there was something comforting in a weird way to talk about these topics with them in particular Yeah, I totally agree and I think that both of them, you know, kind of unlike us are like really engaged It's like organizing the movement struggle, you know strategic and tactical questions Yeah, you know and that means that they just have a lot of experience and thinking about these matters in a very Practical way and yeah, I think Astra is probably like the best organizer that I know of course She's also written several books including the people's platform and Democracy may not exist, but we'll miss it when it's gone one of the best titles to a book I know and ever and also made several great documentaries that I love as listeners to this show. No, but yes I thought the two of them together was it was a bomb in certain respects even though the Conversation was bleak. Yes and listeners again the book is End Times fascism in the fight for the living world We're not going to say anything more about it because we praise it Exorbitantly at the start of this conversation and rightfully, but I do just want to say it really is just a gorgeously written book and so if you're kind of if you see the title and you think oh, this is like a Explaining the moment airport book or something far far from it It is a really elegant summary and synthesis of kind of where we're at and where we're going next So please do listen to this conversation and go out and buy it. Nobody buys books anymore
Transcription truncated.
Matt and Sam talk to Naomi Klein & Astra Taylor about their new book, End Times Fascism: And the Fight for the Living World.