Know Your Enemy - Gerontocracy in America (w/ Sam Moyn)

Matt and Sam talk to Sam Moyn about his new book, Gerontocracy in America: How the Old Are Hoarding Power and Wealth—and What to Do About It.

Duration: 1h 8m
Broadcast on: 20 Jul 2026
Audio Format: other

Lindsey Graham's death last week at 71 was as remarkable for the senator's relative "youth" as its possible political and electoral consequences, so much so that it actually prompted conspiracy theories about the precise nature of his passing. Meanwhile, 84-year old Mitch McConnell's status as among the living remains shrouded in mystery, and former president 83-year old former president Joe Biden announced that his memoir would be published in November via his cadaver-esque presence in a promotional video. In short, everywhere we look the signs of our decline into a sclerotic gerontocracy are present, and perhaps no one has approached this problem as comprehensively as Samuel Moyn in his new book, Gerontocracy in America: How the Old Are Hoarding Power and Wealth—and What to Do About It. In this episode we talk with Sam about the historical precedents for our gerontocracy; the nature, extent, and causes of it; why his book is not an attack on the elderly; and possibilities for creatively rewriting our society's intergenerational contract; and more.

Sources:

Samuel Moyn, Gerontocracy in America: How the Old Are Hoarding Power and Wealth—and What to Do About It (2026)

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to James Madison, Sept 6, 1789

James Madison, Federalist 49, Feb 5, 1788

James Ceaser, "The Constitution: Sweet as Honey," First Things, Sept 20, 2009

Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America (1835)

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All right, welcome listeners to episode 140 of Know Your Enemy. I'm Matt Sippman, your podcast co-host. I'm here as always with my great friend, Sam Etherebell. Hello, Sam. Hi, Matt. I almost said my young friend, Sam. Oh, I wish. I mean, me too. I mean, you and me. You wish I was younger and you wish you were younger. Yeah, exactly. But age is the topic of this episode. Gerontocracy, in particular, a subject, fortunately, with no relevance to the current situation in the United States, and that no one has any examples that immediately leap to mind of being ruled by the old. Yeah, I mean, it's funny, though. I mean, it's something that we talk about all the time. It became a big topic of conversation this past week because of Lindsey Graham's premature death, if dying of a cardiac illness at 71 is premature. I guess it is now. That's something we discussed in this conversation. And also, obviously, Mitch McConnell's kind of death watch or whatever. So it's a topic that's in the zeitgeist. But I don't think anybody before our guest, Samuel Moyne, really took on the topic in a sort of systematic way, which is what he did with this book we're talking about. Yeah, it was a bracing read, a fun read in some ways, depressing too, but a really great conversation with Sam Moyne, who is the Kent Professor of Law and History at Yale. And the title of this book, just out last month, is "Jaren Toxi in America, How the Old are Hoarding Power and Wealth and What to Do About It." Pretty self-explanatory title in many ways. We don't need to elaborate that much. But Sam was a great guest as he always is when he's on the show. Yeah, mixing it up. Kicking the tires of this thesis a little bit, but ultimately, I think, coming to some really interesting and even moving places by the end. Yes, I agree. Well, shall we get some housekeeping items? Yeah. As always, we're grateful to our partners at Descent. One thing they do for us by sponsoring the podcast is if you subscribe to Know Your Enemy on our Patreon at patreon.com/ Know Your Enemy. For $10 a month, you not only get access

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Matt and Sam talk to Sam Moyn about his new book, Gerontocracy in America: How the Old Are Hoarding Power and Wealth—and What to Do About It.