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Should you try to improve your friends or leave them be? Do friendship and politics mix? Is friendship about virtue or delight? In 2023, we were interviewed by Andrew Elrick, now a professor at Marist University, for a documentary podcast he was making about men and friendship. (Two of our favorite topics!) That podcast never came to fruition, but Andy was kind enough to share this audio with us, and now we're sharing it with you: a conversation about friendship — Matt and Sam's in particular — politics, and podcasting. Enjoy!
Further Reading:
Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, (350 BCE)
Michel de Montaigne , “On Friendship” from The Essays of Michel de Montaigne (1580)
Judith Shklar, “On Political Obligation,” (2019)
Allan Bloom, Love and Friendship (1993)
Michael Oakeshott, “On Being Conservative,” (1956)
Dewey, Democracy and Education (1916)
Andrew Elrick, "Friendship is a Dangerous Thing," Game Stories, Nov 9, 2025.
You could argue, Michael Oakshot has, that friendship is a conservative relationship, right? It's non-instrumental, it's not about changing someone, it's kind of useless in the best sense, right? Friendship is about delight, not getting something from the other person, right? It's enjoying their presence. So there's something non-instrumental, non-utilitarian about friendship. The beauty of the conservative view of friendship is that it's not reduced to politics. But the blind spot is that people's character and their beliefs, AK, their political perspective, it echoes out into the world in all kinds of ways, how other kinds of people are treated, right? Like, you know, think back to what we were just saying about Bill Buckley, right? Maybe lingering by friends too much who wrote anti-Semitic columns, or had other kind of odious qualities about them. Like in my heart of hearts, I loved the idea of a totally non-instrumental friendship that is totally nothing to do with politics. But in real life, I just don't think that is entirely possible. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] (upbeat music) ♪ Got it ♪
Andrew Elrick interviews Matt and Sam about friendship and politics, conservative views of friendship, and how friendship shapes their podcast.
