AMDG: A Jesuit Podcast

Transforming Lives Behind and Beyond Prison Walls with Fr. Zach Presutti, SJ

There aren’t that many times in the Gospels when Jesus tells his disciples how they might act if they’re hoping to get to heaven one day. When Jesus does indeed get that direct, it’s probably a smart idea to pay attention. And probably the most famous example of this sort of Jesus talk comes in the 25th chapter of Matthew’s Gospel. It’s the Last Judgment story, the one about the sheep and the goats. Jesus tells his friends that whenever they feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, welcome the stranger, clothe the naked, care for the sick or visit the prisoner, they are caring for Christ himself. He makes a radical one-to-one identification with people who suffering and oppressed. Perhaps the most challenging category of person listed in Matthew 25 is the prisoner. Because Jesus doesn’t just say you can find him in unjustly held prisoners. He just says prisoners. If you want to see Christ, he seems to be saying, look into the eyes of someone on death row. That’s a privileged place to find Jesus, important enough to make it into this dramatic story in the Gospel. Our criminal justice system is certainly not set up to treat prisoners as if they were reflections of the Lord’s face. But our guest today is the founder of a Catholic organization that’s working hard to make world a bit closer to God’s dream for it. Fr. Zach Presutti is a Jesuit priest and the founder and executive director of the Thrive For Life Prison Project. In 2017, before his ordination to the priesthood, Zach founded Thrive For Life with a mission to transform lives both behind and beyond prison walls. In jails and prisons, Thrive For Life offers thousands of men and women in New York and Wisconsin retreats and spiritual direction rooted in Ignatian spirituality. On the outside, the organization is growing a network of houses of study for returning citizens to live in community while receiving holistic support services. Recently, Fr. Zach was nominated as one of three finalists for the prestigious Opus Prize, hosted this year at Santa Clara University. The Opus Prize is given to recognize unsung heroes, anywhere in the world and from a variety of faith traditions, solving today’s most persistent social problems. All Opus finalists receive gifts of $100,000, with the winner receiving $1 million. When host Mike Jordan Laskey spoke with Fr. Zach recently, he asked him to share the story of how Thrive For Life got started and why he thinks it has grown and thrived the way it has. Fr. Zach shared his reflections on working in prison ministry and why he finds it to be such an enlivening mission. While he’s a humble guy who deflects praise and is always quick to lift up members of Thrive For Life’s team and network, we couldn’t help but be struck by Fr. Zach’s passion, energy and vision. We think you’ll enjoy getting to know him a bit. Thrive For Life: https://thriveforlife.org/ The Opus Prize: https://www.scu.edu/news-and-events/press-releases/2024/july-2024/santa-clara-university-announces-opus-prize-finalists.html AMDG is a product of the Jesuit Media Lab, a project of the Jesuit Conference of Canada and the United States. www.jesuits.org/ www.beajesuit.org/ twitter.com/jesuitnews facebook.com/Jesuits instagram.com/wearethejesuits youtube.com/societyofjesus www.jesuitmedialab.org/

Duration:: 37m
Broadcast on:: 04 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

(upbeat music) From the Jesuit Media Lab, this is AMDG. I'm Mike Jordan-Lasky. There aren't that many times in the gospels when Jesus tells his disciples how they might act if they're hoping to get to heaven one day. When Jesus does indeed get that direct, it's probably a smart idea to pay attention. And the most famous example of this sort of Jesus talk comes in the 25th chapter of Matthew's gospel. It's the last judgment story, the one about the sheep and the goats. Jesus tells his friends that whenever they feed the hungry or give drink to the thirsty, when they welcome the stranger, clothe the naked, care for the sick, or most importantly for this episode, visit the prisoner they are caring for Christ himself. Jesus makes a radical one-to-one identification with people who are suffering and the oppressed. Perhaps the most challenging category of person listed in Matthew 25, at least for me, is the prisoner. Because Jesus doesn't say you can only find him in unjustly held prisoners. He just says, "Prisoners." If you want to see Christ, he seems to be saying, "Look into the eyes of someone on death row. That's a privileged place to find Jesus. Important enough to make it into this dramatic gospel story." Our criminal justice system today, and really our culture at large, are not set up to treat prisoners as if they were reflections of the Lord's face. But my guest today is the founder of a Catholic organization that's working hard to make the world a bit closer to God's dream for it. Father Zach Prusudi is a Jesuit priest and the founder and executive director of the Thrive for Life Prison Project. In 2017, before his ordination to the priesthood, Zach founded Thrive for Life with a mission to transform lives both behind and beyond prison walls. In jails and prisons, Thrive for Life offers thousands of men and women in New York and Wisconsin retreats and spiritual direction rooted in Ignatian spirituality. On the outside, the organization is growing a network of houses of study for returning citizens where they live in community while receiving holistic support services. Recently, Father Zach was nominated as one of three finalists for the prestigious Opus Prize hosted this year at Santa Clara University. The Opus Prize is given to recognize unsung heroes, anywhere in the world and from a variety of faith traditions who are solving today's most persistent social problems. All Opus finalists receive gifts of $100,000 with the winner at receiving $1 million. When I spoke with Father Zach last week, I asked him to share the story of how Thrive for Life got started and why he thinks it has grown and succeeded the way it has. He shared his reflections on working in prison ministry and why he finds it to be such an enlivening mission. While he's a humble guy who deflects praise and is always quick to lift up members of Thrive for Life's team and network, I couldn't help but be struck by his passion, energy, and vision. And I think you'll also enjoy getting to know Father Zach Prusudy a bit. You can subscribe to AMDG, wherever you get podcasts. And thanks for joining us. (upbeat music) Well Father Zach Prusudy, welcome to AMDG. Thank you so much for taking the time. How are you? - I'm very good. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate being on. - No, I've heard a lot about Thrive for Life and read about it in America Magazine and heard all about the work that you're doing but never had a chance to talk to you about it and happy to correct that oversight today to hear right from you about this project. You've been involved in for quite a while now. And so maybe we could start for folks who again might not be familiar. Sometimes I'll ask folks, imagine you're on an airplane and someone who seems like nice and interesting. Ask you what you do and after you kind of get over the shock of being a priest part, you start to kind of talk about it. So like what's your, what's like the kind of elevator pitch, your opening story about what Thrive for Life is? - I think people are a little bit more shocked when I tell them that I spend the majority of my time in prison and at a pretty soon. - And yes, the prison part might be a little bit shocked and I tell them, you know, I'm on parole or I'm on probation. That's why I'm able to talk to you on this airplane. No, but I, yeah, I'm very grateful to be able to be talking to you today. About one of my greatest experiences of my life actually has been able to have the honor of being able to accompany people who are incarcerated and walk with them as they're leaving their sentence behind the walls. And I got started while I was in the division. So it was obedience that I got involved in this and the novice master sent me to the Onondaga County Correctional Facility in Syracuse, New York, where I did my no vision. And it just, it unfolded from there into first studies when I was getting a degree in clinical social work and the Dean of the Social Work School at St. Louis University asked me if I would do my practicum in the prison. I said, well, you know, I don't have that much experience. I was a novice going into the jail. I could hardly call that experience. So I got going, doing work in the state of Missouri's department of corrections. And while I was there, the Catholic chaplain actually died. And so the warden asked me if I would be willing to moonlight and do some Catholic services on the weekends, which was great because a lot of the community got involved in that ministry behind the walls, including at the time was my superior, Tom Green, who's now the provincial town in the central southern province. And then I was, I came back to New York and had the great fortune of being able to mobilize faith community partners in the area to start doing the spiritual exercises behind the walls and the prisons and jails. And then from those relationships that we formed behind the walls, we were able to now open up two houses in New York, one in Manhattan and one in the South Bronx for people continuing their education, post incarceration. And we're very blessed to be able to open up a house out in Milwaukee. Milwaukee, Wisconsin is as well. - Great and I would be excited to ask you about those projects and get more into the nitty gritty, but first maybe I could go back a little bit to the beginning of your own story and talk about kind of going in to prison out of obedience and kind of being asked to do that. Was that not something you thought, like, oh, this could be ministry for me? What, can you remember like those early experiences when you had that chance to accompany people and got to know them and hear their stories and where you felt like the spirit like moving within you as like, oh, this could be something that is bigger in my own life than I may be expected. - Yeah, I never, I never really, I didn't join the Jesuits to start working in jail. So that was a surprise from the spirit, definitely. But you know, through conversations with the novice master when I was a novice, I remember distinctly talking about my own experiences that I had had prior to entering the society of Jesus. And he really thought a good fit for me would be, would be the jail. No, I don't know if that was a compliment or it was like, you know, let's try to get rid of him as soon as we can. So we'll send him to the local jail. But for me, it was completely and utterly transformative because it was through this work at the Anandaga County Correctional Facility that I was having some very deep conversations with guys that I was meeting behind the walls. And I just started to ask fundamental questions about life. I mean, one of the fundamental questions was like, why them and not me? I mean, I had a, I have a cute awareness of my own transgressions and why them? And then how did we get together, them and me? And how can we, how are we all in the same boat and how are we all crossing paths together? So from the very beginning to today, the entire work is based upon relationship. It's based upon that encounter that one has with people who are behind the prison walls and jails of this country. - And so you've mentioned so that you have been offering, you ended up offering the spiritual exercises there and bringing some of the Ignatian spirituality after a kind of meeting and kind of sensing the need and offering it to people and inviting. And so yeah, what were the moves then from your kind of initial, oh, this is a powerful experience and this might be where I'm called to then, oh, there's a real need here and we can start to really activate some things and bring something into existence that hadn't been there before and then quite the same way. - Well, I mean, the spiritual exercises are in my understanding, they're really, they're a way to give God a chance in your life, right? I mean, they're a way to grow an intimacy and friendship with God and they have been played a very important part in my own conversion, in my own life. And so I mean, with any gift in life, you don't wanna hoard it to yourself, you wanna share it. And I found out that there were a lot of people that had that experience, especially within Jesuit parishes had experienced the exercises. So behind the walls, a lot of the exercises that we do are rooted in the 18th annotation that Ignatius sets up saying, take these exercises and adapt them to the circumstances and the place where you find people. So a lot of us rooted in the examine, helping our brothers and sisters behind the walls to look at their lives through the lens of God's gaze upon them and helping them to facilitate a deeper growth and intimacy in their life with Christ and then branching out from there, doing gospel contemplation and imaginative prayer and the different exercises that St. Ignatius presents. So it's not just me. I mean, this is a whole community of people who have been touched by the Lord, most importantly, they are believers, they are committed Catholics and these spiritual exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola have been a tool, have been a vehicle for that closer intimacy with God. And so we have found it to be a very grace-filled experience offering these behind the walls. - One thing I love about the kind of Ignatian way of proceeding in a lot of Jesuit contexts is that we are not coming into this relationship to bring God to you or bring you to the Lord, but essentially to say like, look, we believe that God is active in each life, that God deals directly with each creature, each person, and just have these tools to kind of help us grow in our awareness of that and then let that kind of change us. But so there's almost a humility, I think, in that approach that like you don't, it's like within your life, this like, what no matter what has happened, like the, and where you are and where you are now, that like we can find God moving here. Is that like kind of, is that like approach kind of describe your, the way that you again proceed when you're going in as trying to do that in a humble way? And has that, just what are the some of the reactions you've encountered among folks who are incarcerated when they again get the chance to see like, oh, that God is really believe is God is at work here as much as God is at work anywhere? - Religion plays a very important part within the carceral system. Most people who are incarcerated have some type of religious affiliation and they want literature about it. And you know, in the state of New York, it's a mandated service that people have access to religious services. Religion pays an important part. And a lot of that is is the darkness of the environment and the situation there. And people are calling upon the name of the Lord. And so the Lord's always there. We're not bringing the Lord anywhere. I mean, the the Lord's always there with them, loving them at every moment of every breath they take. But one of the things that can happen in a group setting or a facilitated session through like Catholic services and offering the spiritual exercises is that in the faith life, we don't journey alone. I mean, my parents are responsible for giving me this gift of faith and bringing me to the church and having me baptized and making sure I was somewhat catechized. And, you know, kept going bringing me to church. Well, that's what's happening in the prisons as well. I mean, we're doing this as a community. Some of us live outside the walls. Some of us are inside the walls. But we're a community of believers. And that's what unites us. And that's what allows us to pray together. That's what allows us to deepen our relationship with God more is that we have a common bond. We have a common friend. We all are friends of a friend. And that friend is Jesus, the Christ who's captivated our entire hearts. And we've come to believe. And so we're journeying together with this friend that's we have mutually amongst one another. - So what was the way that this moved from? You've described some of your own experiences and no vision and then with information as kind of then having to kind of step forward and to offer some of these, you know, different chaplaincy style things in your role. To moving then to bringing in other folks from outside the walls into being invite them into that mission. So yeah, how did it go from something that Zach was doing to something that others were coming together to do? - Oh, people wanted to be a part of it. I mean, they just, they heard about it and they wanted to be a part of it. And why not more the merrier? I mean, it makes life a lot easier when you're doing things with other people. And I mean, so so many parishes were coming forward, asking me to come give a talk and share it about what we were doing behind the walls. We were able to recruit wonderful spiritual mentors who are have themselves rooted in the church and through the spirituality that comes through St. Ignatius. And then seminarians from the Archdiocese got involved and they go into the jail with us, Galastics or it's just a call coming. It's really, it's not something that I'm doing. It's really, it's the work of the church. And the church is being church behind the walls because that's what the church does. So I mean, I don't see it as something uniquely that I'm doing. People get involved because I don't know, maybe the Holy Spirit touches their heart and wants to, they wanna be more deeply active in their faith but it's amazing the number of generous people, faith-filled people who come forward do wanna be involved in the ministry like this, which is not easy. - Can you then kind of lay out the different elements of the ministry? So you're getting mentioned at a few, but I kind of right now if someone was coming forward and said, "Oh, I'd love to get involved. What are the opportunities people have or the different things you have going?" - Are we behind the walls or are both? - Yeah, both, everything. - Oh, okay. So behind the walls, I'm one of the Catholic chaplains on Rikers Island. And so we have groups of volunteers that go in with me to do these days of reflection. We have masks, confessions, and then do exercises sharing, guided through the exam. And we're in six different correctional facilities to the New York metropolitan area, Essing Sing, Otisville, Shawonga, Walkill, Taconic, Bedford, Eastern Correctional Facility. And then in the state of Wisconsin, outside of Milwaukee, we're in a Racine Correctional Facility and the Reintegration Center for the Milwaukee County. And again, it's mobilizing people who would like to be a part of these days of reflection and retreats behind the prison walls. And it's through these retreats. It's through these days of reflection that we come to know people and we enter into a deeper relationship with them. And we're able to offer a continuity of care for these brothers and sisters as they're re-entering from incarceration to come live in a supportive living community so that they can continue their education. So on the outside, key to that is partnering with educational institutions that will offer the scholarships for our friends to continue their education, whether that's higher ed, like you're in New York, NYU, Columbia, Manhattan College, St. Francis College, the CUNY system, John Jay, out in Milwaukee, Marquette University, University of Wisconsin and Milwaukee, I mean, DC, which is a technical school. All, whether it's vocational, it's technical, it's higher ed, whatever it is at the core of the continuity of care that we offer for our folks as they're re-entering, is education, along with the supportive living community of like-minded folks so that you can flourish. - So you'll have people who then, you've met behind the walls generally, then when their sentence ends, they come out, then they could come in and live together and how many folks are living there and then what kind of, yeah, describe like then how the education piece works, like are they going out to courses? Is it, yeah, describe that for us? - Sure, so in New York, we have two houses, Abraham House and Ignacio House. I'm currently in Ignacio House, but the first stop after you get out of prison is Abraham House, which is in the South Bronx. We have up to 30 guys at that house. They're coming there, living there for the first 180 days of their re-entry, building on poor fillers of their human growth and development, housing, education, employment and a deeper sense of purpose. So housing, perhaps within 180 days, they'll transfer into Ignacio House, depending on their education plan, or they'll be linked to permanent affordable housing, employment, securing a part-time job within the community or career workforce through the university's education. Everybody has a personalized education plan, whether that is higher ed, technical, vocational, and then a deeper sense of purpose through our community life. Every house that we have as a community night, where we have some structured life skills, training, a mass guided meditation on the exam. We cook for one another, our meals and have a space of community together because we're all doing the same thing, coming out of prison and continuing their education. So through the communal life, it's kind of packed in there that we can support each other in our own human flourishing. - I imagine that community piece is so crucial. I know, I mean, recidivism rates are generally high. I mean, we can talk some about the U.S. criminal justice system and some of the real, kind of harsh realities that you're facing and those folks are facing. But I imagine that having that kind of community, supportive community around you and those opportunities would help reduce recidivism and help folks kind of really reenter society. Have you found that to be true over the course of your years? - You know, when I was in social work school, there was a lot of talk about recidivism. There was a lot of literature coming out about recidivism and there was a lot of ink spilled over it. And I was like, well, who cares about recidivism if the guy's sleeping on the streets or living in the city shelter system or couch surfing between friends and family. What a low bar of measurement, recidivism. Like what about using the Catholic tradition and we measure human flourishing? What does it look like for a person to really flourish in life? And that happens within the context of community. And that's why the pillars of our community are housing, employment, education and a sense of purpose. And the secret ingredient of those pillars is community. And it's the community that allows for a flourish. There's nobody that comes in and lives in our houses go back to prison. But going back to prison, who cares? And then you're just trapped in the cycle of poverty. Nobody wants to be poor. People wanna live as the loving and generous people they were created to be. And they need community in order to access those resources that they need to flourish. - So as I mentioned, the criminal justice system, you talk to anyone who's involved in just like real horror stories. I mean, not to mention the ones in New York specifically. Like the number of stories about Rikers Island and the treatment of the folks who are there and people who can just feel like they're there forever. Like even before they've been convicted of anything, just waiting for trial for years. And all that has been reported. So a question I guess for you is encountering that. I'm sure all the time. Do you feel burned out? Like is there a burnout temptation? What for you kind of keeps you kind of committed to the mission when I'm sure you're just up against some like really huge bureaucratic challenges? - You know, I love this work and I love the people that I've encountered behind the walls. And actually I would say that their lives have given my own religious life life. Their lives have given my own religious life life. I mean, I know why I'm a priest. I know why I stay a priest. Their lives have captivated my heart and have changed me and for the better. The challenge oftentimes lies within the system. It's not to blame any one person or group of people. It's the system, the country, the systemic issues lie within the structures. And you know what? The key is staying focused on why you're doing what you're doing. If you worry about every little thing, gate clearances, what this captain said, what that warden said, I mean, fine, it's great. We're all locked up so we all got to get along. But if you're constantly focused on what you can't do and the barriers to doing what you really want to do, you're going to burn out. But if you keep focused on people, persons, individual persons that you're accompanying from behind to beyond the prison walls, that'll give you a lot of life. That'll give you a lot of life. And it was a lesson I had to learn really early on because the system can drive you crazy. I mean, rules change every single day. Well, just go with it because you're not there for that. You're there because of this person, that person. And you're journeying together somehow throughout this life. - Our episode that would have just aired right before our conversation was with a reporter who had spent time with the Jesuits in the U.S. Mexico border and talked about how a lot of the stories we hear about migrants, they're very similar. The details kind of whitewashed. And then so instead of kind of seeing individual people and their stories, we just think of this phenomenon of migration and their migrants and it's kind of they're more anonymous and so we don't really to know actual people. And then they become these like sort of like political, you know, one liners. And that's true too. We're like around the criminal justice system. And like, I feel like for after a while there had been this like move away from the kind of like tough on crime but that's certainly back, you know? There's like this belief in this country that like things are getting way more violent everywhere and kind of living right on this edge and you never know when society could collapse and folks who, you know, should be kept in prison longer or you know, we should use a death penalty more liberally. And so there are all of those, again, I guess we're up against some of those social attitudes as well. It's curious like for you, like what are some of the big myths that you feel like are out there around folks who are incarcerated and what are some of the, those narratives that you want to sort of counter through your witness and when you go out and give these talks. Yeah, what are some of the ways that I think you can help like kind of change people's hearts around these folks who are, who are behind the walls? - Yeah, I mean, I think most people, I would say, understand incarceration or jails or prisons, whatever you want to put it through the media. Whatever they've come up against on social media or whatever on some news outlet reports about incarcerated people. And it's usually not a great story. I mean, violence is real and violence should not be condemned. I mean, that's the fact of the matter. But I think that key to this social problem is keeping our attention on people and persons that are in need of support, they're in need of care, they're in need of resources in life. You don't go to Rikers Island because you're a rich person. I mean, this is, but there's poverty involved. Serious poverty, poverty is evil. Poverty should be resisted. You combat evil. You don't condone it. And a lot of these people that I encounter behind the walls, poverty is at the center of what they've experienced their entire life. So focusing on people and persons and the narratives associated with them is very important. I would say that for the detained population and the uniform staff. You know, the uniform staff also gets a bad rap. It's like a couple of bad eggs get in the paper and they think everybody's terrible. Every corrections officer, it's not true. There's bad eggs in the priesthood too. It doesn't mean everybody's terrible. You know, this side of heaven, things are pretty imperfect. So if you keep focused on persons and the lives of these people and how we as a community can help support them in their goals and their aspirations and their own human flourishment, that's a completely different dynamic and that's not gonna get politicized. But that's what gets in the way of some of this stuff that needs to happen is it's caught up in politics and it doesn't move anywhere. It's caught up in an ideology. Well, that's why the church I think has it. I'm a really important role to play in accompanying our brothers and sisters behind the walls because the church is always rooted in the human person and the dignity and value of the human person as it created and the likeness and the image of God. So I mean, I think that's, if you can stay focused on that, it's a tall order, but it keeps everything in perspective. - I imagine some of those persons that you have encountered, though their stories really have stayed with you over the course of years and maybe on some of those difficult days are ones that you can remember and kind of keep you really committed to the mission. I don't know if there are any stories you have in the top of your mind you could share with folks just to help them, to really help illustrate what's happening through Thrive for Life. If there's a person or someone you can call to mind even just to share a bit of their story with us. - You know, I mean, there's so many stories. I mean, I could go on for days about all these inspiring people that I've met behind the prison walls. But one of the things that has lately been coming to my mind that's been very important is, you know, you see all around, even on the news and social media about second chances. I'm sure you've seen that second chances. There's some, they even name themselves that second chances. I just, I fundamentally disagree about second chances because one of the things that I've experienced behind the prison walls is a group of people that have never gotten the first chance. Oh, they've grown up in terrible neighborhoods, horrible neighborhoods in the midst of terrible poverty, families falling apart at the seams, being left to their own devices on the streets, no access to quality education, no pathway to a gainful employment. And so what they do is they do what they've seen all around them. You take a stint in prison and, you know, then you go meet your other friends that you might have. I mean, it's, it's hopeless, but it's not because of them. It's, it's because they haven't had a chance. They haven't had a community of support and care and love to be able to access their real deepest self. And that is the loving and generous person that God created him to be. If you can, if you can be involved in that, it can be quite, quite transformational. - The reason I invited you again at this moment is because you've recently been nominated for, it's called the Opus Prize, which is really a prestigious prize in the Catholic world where individuals kind of on behalf of organizations are connected with, and it's not just Catholics, people of all different faith backgrounds who are doing like really great work and for a more just world. And so I think by being named a finalist, that means that you will, there will be a significant financial gift made to thrive for life, but that is a chance for an even larger one. But I think also like maybe an opportunity to kind of try to spotlight for the broader faith community about the work that's going on. So yeah, they're just curious about like, about that honor and hearing about that and what your reaction to it was when they, when you got that call. - Well, I was shocked. I wasn't sure they got the right person. I mean, I don't really, that's not something that I has really ever come across, across my mind. I'm very honored to be a finalist of the Opus Prize. They're really wonderful people. But listen, here's the thing about the Opus Prize. There's lots of great work going on in the world. So many people are dedicated to helping this world be a better place. And the other two finalists are fantastic. They are fabulous. They are doing amazing things in other parts of the world. And so it's not about that. It's more about, I'm very grateful and I know the team here at Thrive for Life is very grateful to even just be on their radar and to be considered as a finalist. And if there's an opportunity that more people can know about what the church is doing behind the prison walls through this position as the finalists, hey, that's just the work of the Holy Spirit. That's just grace, that's just blessing. So I think it's a great honor and also at the same time, I also, it's amazing to be a part of these other people who are doing wonderful work throughout the world. - Sure. So what is your hope for the growth and continued development of Thrive for Life? What are some of the next things on your own radar? - Sure, so we're just taking this mission on the road. We've got two houses here in New York or right now. We're opening up a third in the Diocese of Brooklyn for people who are continuing their education at St. John's University. Thanks to Father Shanley at St. John's University who's offered these scholarships for people coming out of prison. So that'll be three here in New York. We just opened up a house in Milwaukee. It's the first house of studies in the state of Wisconsin. Wonderful people who are involved out in Wisconsin getting this house off the ground. It's just wonderful to see the local people of the local church and the archdiocese of Milwaukee galvanizing around this and building this house up to make it a home for people coming out of prison. So we're taking this on the road. We're just taking this on the road and we're going to different geographic areas and partnering with educational institutions and the local church, obviously doing it with and in the local church so that we can accompany more of our brothers and sisters as they're continuing their education post-incarceration. - It just seems like you've listed all these different partners, right? So like you, I know Cardinal Dolan is a partner and is-- - Oh, he's a wonderful man. - Yeah, and all the universities and parishes and are you just like, do you like love connecting with people or like, are they coming to, like what, how is that? - The key-- - It seems like a lot. - The key is that we do this as a church. This is the ministry of the church. Jesus is the one that invite us into this. You just have to read the gospels, particularly the synoptic gospels. Jesus is the one that invites us into this encounter with the other and he actually puts a stipulation about eternal life on it. And he invites us into it. So it's very important that we do this as a church. You know, the world is siloed, Michael. I mean, siloed this university, that college, this department, that parish, this, I mean, enough is enough. We are a church, we are a people of God, we are the body of Christ here on earth. So it takes all kinds of people, all kinds of gifts, all kinds of talents from all kinds of walks of life to journey together. And guess what? The incarcerated people are included in that. And it just enriches all of our lives and makes us, makes us more committed to this invitation that the Lord is invited us to. - The fact that you've gotten to bring together and the Lord of the Spirit working through you and your part team that have kind of broken down some of those silos and brought different universities and different parishes and dioceses and bishops together suggest to me like, wow, that's a miracle. That's the work of the Spirit. It just doesn't happen enough in terms of the, something good happens. People, I guess you're saying, territorial parochial. So to see it really thriving because of the investment from so many different corners and stakeholders, I think that's a real testament to the urgency importance of the work. - We're very committed to this. And we're very committed to this rooted in the church because you can be a Republican, you can be a Democrat, you can be gay, you can be straight, you can be black, you can be white, you can be a felon, you can be a non-fellow, whatever it is, that's not what this is about. And I'll have none of it than the organization. Everybody is invited into this ministry because this is what Jesus is asking us to do. Well, let me tell you something, building community is not that easy because Jesus says we're two or three or gathered. He's there too, but guess what else is there? Personalities are there too. And so if you can keep focused on what I said earlier, that we're all here because we are united with a friend of a friend, that we all have a common friend that's brought us here and the Lord has brought us here and the Lord's with us. So all those divisions, all those differences that people love to talk about, they just go away because we're united in our relationship with the Lord and that can heal many wounds and many divisions if you stick it out. - Well, Father Zach Prasudy, thank you so much for your work and for coming on today. And again, congratulations on being named a finalist for the Opus Prize and blessings on your ministry as you continue taking it on the road. - Thank you so much. God bless you. (upbeat music) - AMDG is a production of the Jesuit Media Lab, a project of the Jesuit Conference of Canada and the United States based in Washington, D.C. The show is edited by Marcus Bleach. Our theme music is by Kevin Lasky. The Jesuit Conference Communications Team is Marcus Bleach, Eric Clayton, Meghan Leach, Becky Sindelar and me. Connect with the Jesuits online at Jesuits.org on Instagram at We Are The Jesuits, on X at Jesuit news and on Facebook at facebook.com/jesuits. Sign up for weekly email reflections at Jesuits.org/weekly. The Jesuit Media Lab offers courses and resources at the intersection of Ignatian spirituality and creativity. If you are a writer, podcaster, filmmaker, visual artist or other creator, check out what we have going on at Jesuitmedialab.org. If you or someone you know might be called to discern a vocation to the Jesuits, connect with a Jesuit vocation promoter at B@ Jesuits.org. You can drop us an email with questions or comments about the show at media@jesuits.org. And subscribe to AMDG wherever you get podcasts, including iTunes or Spotify. And as Saint Ignatius of Loyola may or may not have said, "Go and set the world on fire." (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]