From the team that brought you the award-winning show Retro Replay and the Emmy-nominated comedy series Con Man comes a new idea just crazy enough to be good. Introducing Couch Soup! I know, I know, you're probably wondering, what is Couch Soup? Well, Couch Soup is content for your hungry nerd soul. Daily articles from fans, not pundits, weekly podcasts that contain a multiverse of opinions on all things pop culture. Exclusive videos and weekly live streams where we laugh, scream, and sometimes have technical difficulties. All created by folks like you, the gamers, the film nerds, the TV, bingers, comic book lovers, bookworms, and pop culture enthusiasts all in one giant bowl of beautiful disgusting soupy goodness at couchsoup.com. All right, folks, welcome back to Middle Earth. Here we are. We're back at the Watch Now podcast as we go full-on nerd for streaming TV with recaps breakdowns, Easter eggs, and sometimes, you know, we're gonna talk about spoilers. Let's just call it as it is. All over our favorite shows, and our favorite show this time is The Rings of Power Season 2. By the way, I'm Drew Lewis. I'm your host for the show. I'm joined today by Anduin, who is the founder of the TT RPG show, Roll D5, and our Tolkien Superfan. And then Chris Mills, a longtime friend, expert foodie and nerd, but more importantly, he's our Tolkien expert, and he's gonna explain everything. He's gonna basically, we're gonna walk through and I'm gonna, Chris, tell me what's going on here, and he's gonna be like, that's what's going on. I'm gonna be like, okay, you blew my mind. So get ready for those moments. And let's get started with The Rings of Power episode four eldest. Let's start with you with a non-spoiler review. I just want to get, like, each one of you just give me real quick. No spoilers, just tell me, what do you think? What do you think of this episode? A cry of happiness. Oh, that's nice. Twice. Twice. What? That's a, you know. It's about as non-spoilery as I can get. Yeah, nailed it. Any other, any other, any other, any other main thoughts there, or just the joy? No, I'll explain later. Okay, I love it. Chris, what do you think? I enjoy this episode a lot. I thought, yeah, we'll talk about all the things that would, in detail as we go on, but overall, I was, I was there for this very Lord of the Rings moments here. I'm with you guys. This felt the most token of the series so far. In a way, it's the best episode yet, but in the same way, it's the most TV episode I've seen. I don't know if that makes sense, and I maybe I'll dive into that a little bit more. Yeah, I'm going to do more than that. And I'm looking at it only, like, from a production standpoint there, like, you could feel the TVness of it kind of seeping in where the first three episodes felt. I felt like it was more cinema, just the over the storytelling of it felt more cinematic. Yeah, I'm never even considered that. It's a good combination that we have with the three of us here to look at it from these perspectives. All right, so let's jump into our spoiler review. We're going to walk through scene by scene and break it all down for you guys. The opening scene, we start with Gladrell and Elrond, and Gladrell is struggling, you know, with Elrond becoming kind of her superior, her leader here. Elrond's like barking out some orders. He's like, I need some archers. I need some swordsman. They're going to follow us on this journey. And Gladrell is kind of like being all snarky. Oh, now, now I can do something I can do for you now. Like, that's how this works. And he's kind of like, that's not very Elvish of you. How many is to check in with himself? Yeah, he needs to have some heart to heart with himself. Yeah, yeah. So they kind of argue a bit. I mean, would you guys think of this little conversation here? Were you kind of feeling this? I thought I was sad, but at the same time, it also brought because I've also been watching the trilogy. This week to watch kind of Elrond's personality. And he does get, he does kind of feel hardened because now we're seeing more of the tension between him and Gladrell, which we know things end up turning out okay. But most of the tension with the ring, and that's where it's based on, I don't think he's mad at Gladrell at all. It's all about the ring and what she's choosing with it. And so seeing like these two just back and forth was really sad, but also it is making Elrond who he is in the age that we know that we know him as. I agree with that. I think you got to give latitude for what these characters are young, like thousands of years, right? Like at least, you know, so that's a long time to change. Like imagine, I can't imagine what I would be in a thousand, like the personality change I would have in like a thousand years later. Yeah, it's like with the lockdown, we are different people from before lockdown versus after we are not the same. Totally. Yeah. So yeah, I'm fine. I don't have a problem with it. It's not lining up exactly one to one with their movie versions of the characters. I think that's okay. But I do think it's interesting how passionate Gladrell is over how like robotic in a way, Elrond kind of is responding to the situation. It's almost like Kirk and Spock, you know, like you got like the Kirk and Spock dynamic here. It'll be interesting to see because he'll eventually get a ring. So that's going to be a really cool character swaying. Yeah. Anytime that he's talking to Gladrell about not using the ring, that's always on my mind is how we know that he's headed that way. So the two journey to Egrion and Gladrell and Elrond walk up to a bridge that has been decimated. And yeah, that it looks like he's like lightning did this and Gladrell's like, I think something a little bit more powerful than lightning took out this mega bridge. And Gladrell gets a vision from her ring that's like as once they ask like what which path it's very low to the rings like must choose which path to take the northern path which would extend our journey by two weeks or that is probably safe. Maybe maybe not, or the southern path, which we'll get us there quicker, but it goes through probably an area that may be a trap. Elrond kind of sticks to his guns and says, we're going the southern path, baby. I don't care what your ring says, what you guys think. I love this scene. I thought that just it looked very beautiful and the thing I was really wondering about though is where are they? What is this bridge and who made it because anything, any structure like that's on that scale, typically in area door would have been made by the new Menorians, which they haven't had a chance to do yet. So that must lead the elves then. So, okay, so this is an elf bridge and then given its proximity to where they're going. So, they're coming from Mithwand or they're coming from Linden actually and then going to what we know is the Barrow Downs, then it's probably the Brandywine River, but it's not the Brandywine bridge. This is like a cavern. Yeah, so that's another thing too is it's like, it's a huge drop in the landscape. I can't think of where that might be, but that's what a lot of things to show. I take the show for what it is and how it's presented, but I can't resist trying to figure out, where are they on the map here? Yeah, and that's interesting too. This is the first time in the show where they kind of did a fast travel moment where we're going on a journey and it kind of shows the map and it kind of does the little dust. It kind of does the little dotted line thing, Indiana Jones style kind of. It's a lot of sweeping shots too, that were reminiscent of the trilogy and you get to see the really pretty scenery. Yeah, that made me really happy. And I think this is a slight problem I have with right now, like the first season everyone felt like, I'm going to wherever and then the next scene, I'm here. You know, like, no, it's like, we're going to this plant. Oh, it's like a 10 day journey. Okay, we're going to watch the day journey. This, when you didn't start it that way, I almost said it in our last episode when we were talking about how we thought that they were playing a game on their horses to try to steal something, steal the rings. And, and I'm thinking, they, when did those horses start running at that speed because I hope not all the way back. Yeah, five days straight or whatever would take into it. Yeah. Those elven horses, man. This is a normal journey and then at the very end. Glad you can't catch. Yeah. Yeah, so this is a, well, this is also an interesting scene. We get to see a few more. We're introduced to a few more elves. We don't quite get all their names. Speaking of, I actually have their names. Oh, nice. Shout out to Wizardway Chris, who just works their butt off getting all of these things. So I'm probably going to mispronounce these because I'm not a Tolkien language specialist, but Chris is. So the first one we have is a chamier, which is, which means hand man. And then we have Vorohile, which is ever follower in the Kenya. And then we have Rian, which is crown gift in Sindarian. And then we have Daymore, which is dread night or darkness or shadow night in Sindarin or Moldorian. And then we have Tierne Gorthad, which in Sindarian is the name for the Barrow Downs. So we've got that that we had talked about. But those are the elves that we have. And so I thought that was really nice to be able to give these side characters their own names. They have names. That was really nice. All I could think of when you were rattling off like the meanings of their names is like, I need an elven show that takes place in like a department store where like the elven name is like Stalker of Shelf or like check check out. That would be so funny. You know, it's like, what's your name? Oh, yes. Hand man is how fun he is. Totally. That's where I came to give someone. Yes, bro. As my father before me, he was a hand man. Yeah. There's so many jokes that can be the other thing I think of note of the bridge was glad you're as quick to point out that this was probably the work of Sauron. And that she kind of repeats that several times throughout this episode. And we'll kind of point that out. She's she's pretty much on the like anything bad. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Which banks like we talked about this in the last episode, Sauron. They didn't show it, but he was he did a lot of work between going from. His meeting with our to color symbol, right? Like there was a lot like it kind of in the show. He like left our dark and he shows up with a color of words. Gates was like, Hey buddy, but like there's some shit that went down. Clearly. Yeah. I was thinking of that watching this because you were asking how like who actually killed the elf messengers and how is Sauron getting all this news and and this does show that he has servants if he needs them. Yeah, or we're planted them at the very least as we'll find out. So I'll off they go to to the south where they where we're glad you're kind of like I warned you and the only reason I'm going is to save your asses. She kind of leaves it on that note. Yeah. And then we jumped to room where the stranger is kind of like woken up and he's like where where are my friends and he's looking around and he runs into another stranger. And he's he asked have you seen two halflings and he's like no, but you found a goat, which was probably might be the best line ever. I'm not sure I chuckled quite a bit at that. And then the stranger star map flies away. And he goes chasing after it like a like a like a this was like it's felt like comedy like I was watching like a Charlie Chaplin phone or something like like oh, my thing with my star map and it gets stuck on a tree. I guess he looks at his like serendipitously. Well, this must be my start. It starts yanking on this tree branch like it's going to just fall off for him or whatever he doesn't even do like a karate chop or something to get it off. And then the tree says like the tree just swallows his ass. I was thinking of the dark wizard and wondering like he's clearly arrived in the middle earth first early or before the stranger. But I wonder how much longer has he been there because he's doing a lot better. Yeah, the strangers kind of like yeah, I was like he only just got a good command of the language. One episode ago. That's good for this dude. The poor guy and like this introduction to Tom Bombadil is more perfect than I could have asked for because not only is he singing a song directly from the books. It's how we get his introduction in the Lord of the Rings which of course we know peace not in there. There's a lot of good reasons that it's unable to fit into the trilogy. Because of Tom Bombadil's nature. But that's how you will get an introduction to Tom in the trilogy is I believe it's Pippin. Of course it's Pippin who gets enveloped by an entry and Tom has to come and be like, all right, let him out everything's fine you'll be okay and like coax him out of the tree. And so that was a really lovely introduction as chef's kiss. Yeah, yeah, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed seeing the first on-screen adaptation of Bombadil every other Lord of the Rings adaptation, even even the BBC radio dramas which was 13 hours amidst the whole bombadil thing. Yeah, it just, he doesn't fundamentally change the course of the story so it's if you're going to cut it's an I can understand why we do that but I like Tom Bombadil as a character. I like that he is so musical he's almost like an embodiment of nature in song. He's always singing and in the book literally always singing, even when he's not even when it's not a song everything that he says is in just in this little his rhythm that he says. Well it's really interesting because if you think about how Tom but Bombadil got into the story in the first place. If you read the history of Middle Earth series there's in return to the shadow you can see Tolkien sort of sketching out ideas about what's going to happen as he is at this point just approaching Lord of the Rings like a sequel to the Hobbit. And in the Hobbit every chapter they have sort of a little mini adventure on their way to the big story you know they either they meet some new type of creature or something happens and they have so he wanted something like that to happen to the Hobbits and Lord of the Rings. And he was just putting out ideas and he thought one idea he had was that they were going to run into a witch's hut which would have been interesting. It's interesting to imagine what would the Tolkien witch's hut have been. He already had this character Tom Bombadil was a character in a poem that he wrote that was published in Oxford magazine I think in the 1934 I think. Basically is this verse that sounds a lot like Tom's singing it's that kind of rhyme and meter and he goes through this series of events where he meets people and they all try to catch him in some way and none of them are able to hold him. Things a little song and gets free so yeah and in this poem you have introduced a goldberry who is his wife the river daughter you have the barrow whites you have oddly enough you have badgers that try to that's I think that's the only thing that didn't end up getting into Lord of the Rings but he's got so he basically imports the Tom Bombadil Tom Bombadil and all the cast of characters and says I've already got these as ideas and I like them so let's have them have an adventure there. I think that in the same way that he did that when riding Lord of the Rings this show is sort of doing that with the TV show it's this is something that exists already in another in the original not the adaptation being the original that hasn't been in another adaptation. And so they pull it into the show in the same way that Tolkien sort of used it so Tom is such like a weird like enigma because Tolkien doesn't really explain who he is really what he is. He's immune to the one ring like it was funny because they took a talk like well why don't we have Tom take it to mortar because you know Bombadil just isn't affected by it and I think it's Gandalf who's like he would simply forget that he had it. That is not a good idea. You don't leave it somewhere and it'll just he won't remember like he just he's so carefree that it just. But let's just give a quick shout out to Rory Keneer who's playing Tom. Oh my gosh. Yes. Probably crushing it so I'm hoping people are happy with this portrayal I think I think we all hear. Yeah I haven't seen many people on at least my you know searches and you know my FYP and stuff people love him so far. They adore him yeah it'll be interesting I hope we get we get more and we can talk about that in a little bit but. We cut away before we get more explanation we cut away to nori and poppy. They're in a predicament here they're kind of like waking up where are we they don't they're they're lost and they were lost before so they're lost yet again. They're more lost maybe I don't know. I would need to be them they're like we didn't know where we were before and now we don't know where we are now we're down a man. Well I guess that's that's that's going. They see the writers they jump off a cliff and roll for forever. It's a strange moment and they land and right in front of another halfling who introduces himself as I'm nobody. Which I guess that's that's a name you could you could take he gets they figure out that he uses this was stealing water I don't I guess from where who knows and they not that well with the bell and I hope. Is it nori or which one one of them they have like a or poppy they kind of have a little like love spark. Yeah there's a little in Google eyes happening between those two. Yeah they somehow like convince and by convince I mean blackmail him to take them to their village by saying we'll turn you in for stealing water unless you take us. I so he's clearly not the brightest the sharpest stick in the in the on the ground here he so he says okay I'm going to take it to my the grunge but there's a few rules you must follow. And he lists. Do you guys I mean is there anything to add before I get any further to this moment. I love that he forgets like his rules one two and four. My husband looked at each other like was that four and then like was that four. Yeah. Good I'm glad it didn't like miss. So I got to the secret village and they are introduced to the to the to the grunge so they're they're enclave is called the grunge and we get a. We get an interesting sweeping shot of all the halflings like it looks like they've dug holes out of rock. They kind of look like they're living in like little rock caves. I love it. This is where I felt the most from a production standpoint. This episode. This is the moment in the episode where I'm like okay they're on TV budget like there. There's a restriction here. This little Hobbit area just felt like I'm on stage four sound stage in wherever in LA or in London. And they built like this tiny little Hobbit and there's like fruit and random bushels here. Like it just like they didn't know what to do here. They're like we need to make like these people live in caves. Like okay. It was when the guy was like chopping some vegetables because it was kind of that same moment. I was like because if this was just a weird cut to where he he he's like he cut something and then he goes to put the. Like scissors whatever down but he stays there and doesn't move. I'm like oh they gave him a direction just when you're done you're done. But the camera continues to sweep and the guy should have just like you know did a little bit more movement because he just freezes there. Yeah. Yeah you can almost see the moment where they're like action and everybody starts doing their like actions and walking. Like it just felt like I was like okay. It was very it was like it's a very cool concept but yeah it's hard to make. It look cozy in a desert. Yeah. So they meet the leader. Gunda Bebel. Gunda Bebel? Gunda Bebel. Played by Tanya Moody who comes out just barking right. She's like what are you doing here? In Nori's like not having any of it. She's like throwing the sass back. She doesn't go well for her because that was the fourth. That was the fourth rule. The missing rule. The missing rule that nobody who we find out his name is actual name is Merrimack by the way. That's that one seems a little a little strange but that's okay because these aren't hobbits that we're really used to. Right. I mean and I mean none of them are there all. Hobbits in this ancestral kind of form that's it's a little different. Yeah because there's like three races of. Yeah there are three original plans. Yeah the the harpets the fallahides and the stores. Okay. Speaking of which did you guys. When you're watching did you know that they were stores before they said they were stores? No. No. But when they said stores I was like wait. Smeagal is a store. Yes. Oh that's what they include me into it is we were watching and I said I bet they're stores because the leader was a woman. So and it reminded me of Smeagal stories about his grandmother and Gandalf researching and finding the Smeagal story and saying that I've no doubt that she was a matriarch of her people. Wow. Well that's that reminds me of this so the others are probably stores. So that's a little connection to. That is cool. That's a good one. Oh yeah that's awesome. That's really cool. Well Nori obviously you know she saw some sass but then she also. Like says like hey our friends who are you looking for our friend he's a wizard. That does not go well either. And they're they're freaked out and she's like the only wizard we know around here is she calls it out the dark wizard. So clearly everybody knows this dude's bad. And they lock her lock them up or the time up. So does so nori popular not doing so good. Can we also talk about in that same scene the yet another tease that this is not a blue wizard that the stranger is going to be Gandalf. He says he's a giant a big elf like a big grand elf or something something of that nature a grand off. That's what I'm like come up please. I mean there's. No I've given up already. I just kind of. See the thing is I did not catch that though. There's no good way forward for me now because either he's Gandalf and I'm going to be irritated that they've danced around it so much without just getting to the point and saying okay this is who he is. Or he's not and then I'll be irritated that they. So why have them with them saying was it a grand elf because it just sounds like Gandalf sounds like that feel like that's like your I feel like you're reading into that like to me I just. If it was that one thing if it was that alone I would agree with you and I wouldn't say that. But it's in in the whole entirety of the series with all of the things all put together in the in that context it is absolutely a tease that this is game. Okay okay because I listen I'm not seeing that but I'll trust you guys. Yeah when we get back to Tom I got some ideas and a question about that too because I'm still not convinced. The Tom scenes for me there was a little couple nods I thought that we're pretty glaring even to me and we'll get to that. So we mentioned of the dark wizard we get to see a little bit more of the dark wizard we cut to him plotting and talking to one of his writer gold face guys. By the way those costumes are really cool I kind of want to see them at Halloween like if somebody's going to make some bad ass like. They're cosplays with that. Like costumes like make it these these guys they're like those starting out with those hammers. Yeah you can make it look like that shit. Oh yeah. Okay. So the the one the guys pretty confident he's like I will find them or I'll die kind of vibe in the wizard's kind of impressed but also a little bit like you're either an idiot. Or you're really really brave. And he says okay you focus on the halflings I'm going to focus on the the ishtar. And he kind of leaves it at that so it's kind of like there's a little bit of. This guy's got a little bit of like. What do you call it like evil villain like if you idiots can't do it I'll do it. You know like there's a I kind of felt like this was like a trope like I'm watching a. He might as well be time in order to the train tracks and Portland is must have to. Totally. His eyebrows. Yeah. And it kind of leaves it at that. I mean by the way I mean this guy looks like sorrow right. I mean. Holy shit. Yeah. It's no accident. No. They're they're doing. They're doing this. So weird. It would be really. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just going to be a little irritated either way. Yeah. I know I'll be mad that they that they've made him look so much like Sarman if he's not. Yeah. I know. So then we're back to Bombadil and the stranger. He rescues him from the tree kind of goes and pats the tree and says like hey let my buddy out. He was for some sweet nothings. It's really nice actually. And the tree kind of he kind of you kind of like. Shoves him out of his armpit like you know in the scene it was kind of funny. There's a little bit of like. Like I guess camera trickery there. I think it was nicely done. Also the tree felt when you see it curl back it actually felt practical. It looks. It looks like it was. It looked like it was like a real tree that could like they built that looked that could move or turn. It was kind of cool. Yeah. They could totally do that. Oh yeah. I can easily do something like that. So I would not be surprised. Yeah. I was kind of blown away by that. That was so cool. I mean not exactly the same way but. This scene should. This scene is kind of happening before in the extended editions. Yeah. Except it was the it was the Mary and Pippin get swallowed up into a tree and then tree beard come and comes and says basically pretty much exactly the same thing. It's because his the bombadill lines were given to tree beard for the extended edition for the movies. And we were watching this and page my wife was saying so imagine if you've never read the books and you've just seen the movies and you're watching this. It might be really confusing. Why are they doing this again exactly the same lines. That's a good point. Yeah, but I wonder how many people have seen the extended edition that aren't like. Super. I mean how many people are willing to sit through four and a half hours of. More low to the rings are other than right the three of us extended edition. Yeah. Yeah. More please. Give me fair mirrors wedding like come on. Yes. Houses of healing. Fair that whole. Oh, yeah. Oh, more of that story. You know, it's coming. We just need to start the hashtag. You know how Snyder has been trying to get it done for like two years now. He's trying his buzz. So bombadill invites him in this home. The stranger in his home and the stranger is like taking a nice, nice bath. And he hears bombadill singing. And then he hears a woman like chime in like mysteriously. Yeah. And he actually calls bombadill out on it and bombadill's like, there's no, no one else here. But you and me help me out here guys because I clearly heard it. I need help myself. Okay. You absolutely hear her and there's even a point where they're both singing. You hear both their voices singing at the same time. At the same time. You can't just say that, Oh, well, he's just really good at doing it. Oh, some woman voices. They're like, whatever. And then he comes back and he lies about it. Why is he being that way? I don't know because like not only subtitles, it doesn't say goldberry, but in the credits, there's goldberry. So it's very obviously goldberry. But I, I don't. And who's goldberry for everybody that doesn't know? His wife. Right. Okay. And also probably the daughter of a river. Yeah. Yeah. That's not confusing at all to anybody. Sure. Yeah, she's as mysterious as he is and they're both, they're both tied in with nature. And so she can, I think she, she's taken from like the ideas of like nature, like in folklore tradition, things like that. Yeah. Okay. But yeah, the witty window, which bombodil mentions is actually the name of the river that flows through the old forest. Oh, wow. Yes. You know, that's her mother. Tom took it literally. I think like, I think her voice maybe can somehow just kind of like transcend in a way. And so when he asked, I clearly heard somebody else here. He's like, there's literally no one else here. Like quite literally, there's no one else here besides us. That's a good idea because if you, and that might even go back to, to be consistent with the lore with her being the daughter of the river because in, in the, in the books, she is, it's, it's September and the lilies are almost all gone. And, and Tom has gone out to gather some before they all die. And when they were, they first seek old berries, she's sitting in the living room or inside of his house or just the main room and has all of these earth and where bowls that are filled full of water with the water lilies floating in them. Mm. And, and even as a kid reading Lord of the Rings, I kind of got the sense that she maybe needs that, that she needs to be in that kind of environment and maybe can't be on this journey because it's not, because she needs to stay in the place where she belongs close to the river. Yeah. It's almost like being able to communicate through her other senses of being, which is water. Yeah. Okay. Because he wanders for good several thousand years just to see what things are like. Yeah. And you get a sense of that. The wizard keeps prodding here and he's like, who are you? What are you? You know, going back to your line, like, who are you? I'm, I'm Tom. Tom Bombadilla. Tom. What are you? Let me clarify. So he kind of gets a little bit more specific. He keeps poking and Tom gets pretty. He starts to really lay it out a bit for us as an audience and for the wizard. He, you know, there's some moments where he says, I was here before the stars when it was just a black sky and then all these eyes were looking down upon me. He starts to hint at his age. You know, in that sense, he, he does something where I think he costs or sneeze and the fire kind of reacts to him. Yeah. He turns the star map into a loaf of bread. That was so funny. On a knife. So there's, and then the wizards just blown away. He's like, teach me, teach me Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope. Or maybe he's Yoda. I'm not quite sure who you want to compare him to in Star Wars lore, but. And Tom is sort of like hesitant. He's like, hey, you know, there was another, there was a, there was another wizard that came through here and, you know, wanted to learn from me. And he, he went to the dark side, as they said. He started a cult. Yeah. He started a cult. And as, as wizards do, I guess, as one of the blue wizards did was start cults. Yeah. But before we move forward, we need to talk about the lamb. Yes. Because he, so he talks a little bit about, I'm basically the, the oldest, eldest being that's, that's basically ever been. And that's what we know as well. He has named the lamb. Erwin, which in Elvish is kind of rendered as like oldest or eldest. So he, he named the lamb after himself. Yeah. So, so bombadil of him to do that. Yeah. That's, that's cool. It's, I was, I was, that's what I was going to say about the lamb was that its name was our, I are Wayne, that, which is a word that we, that we hear in Lord of the Rings. And the council of Elrond, when they're talking about Tom and Elrond tells that the elves name for him is a, I are Wayne Benadar, which means eldest and fatherless, which you might recognize the word there at are. And as the same name as the character as the father of the race of orcs. Oh, okay. Yeah. All right. Oh, can we talk about that at the end? Are we thinking that this goat has been around since Tom's been around? Like he's like his buddy, his buddy around. He's so funny. I think he's got a little bit of animals. Yeah. He's just having fun naming them after different names of himself. Yeah. So what, so we don't know, like we just know, like, from a lore standpoint, so Tom's been around since the beginning of Middle Earth. But he's not quite like a being like Sauron or, or was it like we don't really, like he's clearly been there about a longer than anything. Yeah. So he a god of sorts. I mean, good question. This, well, it apparently is a good question because internet nerds have been talking about this question for a very long time. And well, I should say internet nerds, but like even talking himself was asked this question. And, and in one of his letters kind of currently says, I don't really think, I don't really think that Tom has benefited much by over analyzing what he is or what not. He's, he's an enigma intentionally. Yeah. But for all that, if you want to still try to go down that road and say, well, given what is he, he, if he's that old and he's also in the world, he must be one of the Einor. So the, he must have participated in the music of the Einor in some way and then chosen to go down into the world when Lou Vatar gave it being. That's the only way he would be there that, that long ago. But does it mean he's one of the, the Valar? Well, what it mean, what it, what it, that itself implies is that he's not God. So like the one God, Eru, Lou Vatar, if not that. Yeah, not him. Which a lot of people argue that he is. But I think that's more because of the Judeo Christian tradition of the, he is, that is called I am, you know, and Gullberry says something to that extent. Like when Frodo says, who, who is he or what is he and she says he is. But I think that that's not at all what Tolkien was thinking. So clearly something, some order of being like Sauron Gandalf. That kind of thing, whose, whose spirit forms existed since the beginning of the universe. Exactly. But it's interesting that even like Morgoth and like all that stuff happened and he just sort of, he's the, he's like non-confrontational. Like he doesn't inject in himself into sort of worldly politics, I guess, as it, as a. Yeah. Like he sort of stays agnostic. He's just the master of his own domain. Yeah. Yeah, which makes him so fun. And also at the same time, useless is the wrong word, but like you said earlier, it doesn't make a big impact on the story because like he is incredibly powerful, but chooses just to do his own thing. And I love that like freedom that that gives the character. It is so fun. But from a contradictory point, here he is though coaching, not coaching, but eluding even eludes that says that, listen, if, if we don't stop or if we don't come together or if parties, and he kind of winks almost at the stranger, don't, don't do what they need to do and stop the dark wizard with joining Sauron, like bad things will happen kind of is sort of like, so he's sort of helping here in a way, I guess. And there's an implication there where he said he even helped the other wizard. So clearly his implications have like, he's helped, he's, he's still kind of, but he doesn't really want to get involved personally. Which kind of feels like a bit hypocritical from my POV. Like I'm looking at it a little like, all right, buddy, you're giving me like Luke Skywalker from the last shit I vibes, it's rubbing me the wrong way. He kind of does that in the like, in Lord of the Rings too, where he's like, he speaks in almost like those riddles where other people kind of get frustrated, like just tell me what I should do or where I should go, but he doesn't. And I can see why he was more direct in the TV show, because I think that type of character in the way he'd speak would seriously irritate casual viewers who don't know him very well at all. So it's interesting that they did make him more direct in that regard. Yeah, it serves to move it along a little. Yeah, it does. All right, let's keep it moving. So we get down to, because we could talk about Bombadil and The Stranger for a whole episode, and hopefully we'll see more of Tom. We get to the Barrow Downs and it is in fact, it's a trap. Q-act bar. Get the new ship. It's like a 47. It's a trap. It's a trap. Totally. Glad your vision reveals the dangers and lo and behold, they show up and the elves are like, I like how they walk. They're already in it. And they're like, you know what? This place doesn't look so friendly. Yeah. It's even the trees aren't still. And right away, an elf bites the dust by the chains. This is what I want to talk about real quick. Yeah, jump into it. But they said, I'm frustrated by a certain horror trope that the rings of power followed in episode four. You might say minor for most, but like really, everyone signed off on naming the Black Elf Daymore and then had the Black guy die's first trope. Like Camney, the hand guy, couldn't be the first one to kick in. Yes. I literally said that. Oh, of course the Black Elf was the one that died. I totally, I didn't catch that. I totally didn't say the same thing. No way. Internet is like fucking hilarious. Like, and naming them, like... Yeah, I don't get that though. What's the thing about naming them? So his name is, yeah, I'm kind of going with Deimore just because it's probably Deimore or like... How's it spelled? It's D-A-E-M-O-R. So kind of going with... Deimore. So kind of going with like... Deimore. So it would be Deimore, which literally you die, it can't die anymore, I suppose. Yep, which had kind of like the definition of dreadnights. Night, darkness, or shadow night, or in Sindar, and love, sorry, not in Sindar, the pronunciation. But yeah. So his name is another indication of his blackness. Yeah. They signed up on that and had him die. That's why I just bring it up to right now because I don't know. No. You don't think so? I think it did. They did. It's horrible. Oh, why? I think that's kind of funny. I don't know. It's hilarious at the same time. It's also like... At this point, it's a joke, right? Like you kind of like... It has to be. It has to be, right? It has to be because that's... Yeah. It's so... I don't know. Oh my gosh. I mean, at some point... I mean, if they had him in a red shirt too, then... Yeah, exactly. I mean, at some point, you have to give a trope a trope and then just, you know... Because I agree, it's like, why not the hand guy? Why can't he even die first? Why not the hand guy? Oh, man. Oh, man. Yeah. Yes, that's what I wanted to point out, it's just hilariously frustrating. I guess the black eye bites it first and they all draw the weapons and it turns out... I guess it was strange, like... They could have... I felt like they all could have just got chained up real quick and died right away, but instead the barrel weights kind of reveal themselves. Yeah. And it's pretty cool. This CGI, this looks really fun. I love the look of the barrel whites. It seems true to how they're describing the books with the glowing eyes. Yeah. Yeah. I really like this. It was really creepy. Just overalls and I think, you know, we're speaking of horror tropes, but not withstanding. Yeah. I like the way that this series has handled with these moments of horror. Me too. And this one included. Yeah. It looked really cool. And even when they, like, would swipe their swords in the way, they would kind of like disintegrate, but then kind of rebuild. Yeah. Felt very cool. Like, there was a lot of thought, whoever's handling the VFX management or like the art direction here, like props, you guys, you guys are doing good work. Like, it doesn't, it's not necessarily new, but it feels fresh. You know what I'm saying? Like it still feels right. It does. Right. And it feels right for the world of Lord of the Rings too. Like it doesn't... Without it feeling like, oh, that's looks similar to this other fantastic thing. Right. It did. Own thing. Yeah. Yeah. So they kind of, they're hacking away at these guys and they're not going down. It kind of doesn't look good. Even Gladrail gets caught by the chains and Elrond saves her before she gets taken in. And Elrond saves the day here. He says, come with me and he opens up a tomb and pulls out a weapon, a weapon of a buried weapon and starts taking out the Barrow weights, which he reveals after he kills a few, that the only thing that can kill them is their own weapons. So yeah, I mean, this scene, I read a little bit of something that this doesn't quite happen here. Is that the case? Like, this isn't something that happens at this time. It happens like later. It's like, don't remember. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Barrowites. These would be there. They are very ancient, but the Barrowites shouldn't be here at this point in time. Right. Yeah. They're a third age thing. But in the early first age, like the ancestors of the Eddyne, when they were first moving into the, what used to be the western part of the world that's all under the ocean now, they buried some of their dead here. And then later when the new Minorians arrive here, they know about this and they revere the place and they make settlements here. And it's not until still before the events of Lord of the Rings, but definitely in the third age. There's basically a short version, you've heard of Arnor, which is like the Gondor of the north, the Kingdom of the north. It breaks into three for a dispute to the, to the, how the, what am I, how I'm searching for my words here. There is a king dies and it's not clear who the heir should be. And there's a argument between three brothers of her, who, I won't, they want it to be them. And the Witch King, who is the leader of the Nazgul, sees this division as an opportunity to maybe wipe out the Dumidine forever and sets up a kingdom in Angar. And there's wars and the, and as part of that sends evil spirits into the, into the graves. So that anybody that tries to settle that area again would be worded off by their, by their power. Oh. Pre-history. Well, I need to look into that more because that's cool. That's very cool. But we get the sense, I, and it's a little heavily implied again. Gladriel kind of drops it. Like this is the work of Sauron again, once again, land, he basically laid a trap. He kind of knew people were becoming, coming, figuring it out that he's with Celebrimbor. And he was like, they're going to come this way. I'll take out the bridge, force them to the south, and lay a trap. And they also discover their fallen comrades with the, with the note from, with the message yet. The message. That answered our question that we had. Yeah. No, we did that. Yeah. Yeah. So, but we quickly go back to the refugees at. Hologear. Hologear. Thank you. Or a Sildir, a Rondir, and Estrid are searching for Theo, they're like, they have like a search party looking for Theo. There's a lot of, a Rondir is the only one who kind of like notices like, it looks like petals. I think he's finding petals right on the ground. And then he actually stumbles across, like a torch like, which so cool out of the ground. I don't know how it stayed lit, but there's like a hand holding a torch like buried into the ground. And he comes across. There's like a bunch of people just been smashed into the mud. The awesome scene, by the way, pretty visually. I don't know how that torch did let, stayed lit so long, but a Rondir kind of calls that Estrid here back at, uh, Pologear that, and she kind of comes forward and reveals that she's the, uh, Rondir is, oh my gosh, like the immediate, like, sussing it out. Oh, yeah. It's spectacular. He is, he is currently my number one, like, favorite character in this show. Okay. You know, he, of course, is going to be a favorite, but yeah, around here is phenomenal. Yeah. And he calls her out your, your wild men, you're one of the wild men, or I guess in this case, a wild, wild woman. I don't know. Do they not? Do they not? Everybody's a wild man, even if you're a woman. One is a talking thing. A talking thing. Yeah. Men means humans. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and what I love about this is like 10 seconds later a cylinder is like given his like, hey girl, like, are we going to do this or what? And then he is just trying to riser up for sure. Yeah. It's like, it's pretty like, wow. Uh, and she's like, now he's like, oh, he's like, I'm betrayed. Like, my love, my heart. Poor guy. He's trying so hard. We're going to show it. He's playing the long game too. You know, so they, um, I don't know why the rest of the party, I guess it's sort of a reveal that she wants to send everybody to, is it the south? The north. The north. And he's kind of like, no, that's a trap, but I'm going to send everybody else there anyway. And we're in the three of us are going to go. Sure. Yeah, guys. You go that direction. We're going to go this way. Yeah. So in just the three of them going their own little adventure, uh, back to the south, uh, which I was kind of like, okay, what, what happened to the rest of your, uh, your search party? Following the petals. Yeah. None is always a good idea. It's always a good idea. Yeah. It's with the party. Yeah. So they follow the petals. He's following the petals through this trench of mud like that the ints have made, um, that we know the ints have made. Spoiler. Spoiler. Sildur gets stuck in what we think is like a mud pit like quick, like quick sand. It looked, we kind of all, like everybody, I mean, it stopped me if you thought this was something else, but I'm like, oh, it's like, here we are. It's, you know, you stuck in the quick sand and it's going to be overly sized rats soon to show up. I didn't think that. I thought the never ending story. Oh, shit. Artics. With artics. With artics. From like. God, that is so sad. I was all princess bride for see, that's where we refer. I don't know. Well, it turns out a rondere tries to save him and he gets pulled in to the mud and we all think estrid's going to like, all right, that was fun guys and go run back to the wildman. And it kind of looks like she is, but then she turns around and she brings back a stick and we think she's putting the stick in and we think like a, you're thinking like an elf a rondere is going to find a way and pull everybody out, right? But instead this giant like snake, like monster out of the thing and almost takes her out, but a rondere cuts us the way through the gut of the, the nameless dark entity or wizard or lizard and they come spilling out. Yeah. Things are really cool because I think it's also what the like, almost like crack in octopus type thing was in the original trilogy. I think that's also a nameless thing. They're just some of these creatures that are just so ancient and just dark and hidden in a way that nobody ever sees them. So when you do, it's like, oh shit. Yeah, I love this stuff. This is like the fantasy part of this show or load of the rings and the hobbit that like these like little moments of like what like even in like to your point and load of the rings when you know the, what was it? I forget the name of the actually named the monster was the watcher. Like, I was like, this is, I'm here for this, like these kinds of things is what makes me feel like I'm watching a fantasy show, I'm watching a Lord of the Rings show rings of power. And the rondere's just yeah, supper, yeah, I was laughing so hard. Yeah. Oh my gosh, what, what do you guys think? So the thing that I think the only thing that irked me about this scene was, uh, estrid does this selfless act to save them, but they didn't see that, right? Like they don't know that she tried to save them because the stick was right. So I'm part of me is like, oh, we as an audience see that she's got a good side, right? That she's willing to kind of like save these people, but those two don't know, but yet later on, and we'll get to that, there's a moment where they feel like, oh, she's redeemed herself. So like her tier from a characters POV, they wouldn't have quite warmed up to her. I feel like her, or felt this, this change of heart, I guess, a little later on when we get to it. I didn't even think about that. So they're all by a campfire and a rondere leaves the key on a branch and kind of signaling and walks away. And you're kind of like, I don't know where he's going to take a piss maybe and a sealed door sort of says like, I guess it's up to me to like let you out and he decides to let Estrid out and is like, listen, you know, like, you know, we can have our thing and they're getting all romantical again, you know, he's doing his thing, right, putting his moves back on. And Estrid pulls the sword out of his like, like, come on, buddy. This guy, the soldier is not the sharpest tack. I tell you, like he's kind of an idiot. I'm not going to lie. She just yanks the sword out of his sheath like, there's nothing stopping that and pulls it on him in the ends. I see this as like an act of waiting for it to yeah, and Rondere is like, I'll take you down and the ends show up smack Estrid across the way into a rock. She's knocked out and they start almost taking out everyone else in the party, but a rondere does makes a plea. But before he makes a plea, the the ends ask him, have you ever cut down a tree or have you ever chopped wood and he goes, yeah, come on, if this doesn't remind you of Ghostbusters like, come on, if someone asked if you're a god, you say, yes, great. When someone asks you if you're a god, you say, yes, okay, I mean, if a giant tree comes to life and asks you cut trees, you go, no, not once never, never cut a tree in my life, buddy. I'm private. I mean, come on. I mean, it felt so like really, think of a story from the Silmarillion where it talks about how it's first came into being. And it was sort of a response in two dwarves, when, when Ali first created the dwarves and then God basically said, like, okay, yes, I'll allow it. Yeah, that's fine, but his wife, Yvonne, wanted to have protectors of the forest and he allowed that too. And she basically comes to him and says, hi, you made your axe bearing dwarves and, and they're going to go chop down the forest. Well, I've got forest protectors now too. And he just kind of says, they're still going to need wood. And that's the story I thought of because by him, not denying it and saying, yes, it reminded me of, well, there is this conflict that never really goes away between these two kind of people. A run deer kind of like, he does, he kind of like dodges a few blows and is like, listen, I promise, he kind of makes a promise. He's like, I promise to, you know, protect these, this, this, this forest, you know, and they kind of tell their story of, we've been around, we've, we are seeds planted this forest. You know, we've been around for, you know, they kind of tell a little bit of a history of where they come from. That was when I start crying. That was the second time. Yeah. And it's, it's pretty heartbreaking. And in this, in this case, though, you guys were right, this is an aunt wife, but also an aunt. And also an aunt, yeah, so which is, I, of course, knew their voices sounded familiar. So I immediately had to go and, you know, pause and look it up real quick. Yeah. So Snaggle Root, who's the aunt, is voiced by Jim Broadbent, incredibly famous, and Winter Bloom, the aunt wife is Olivia Williams. Yeah. So some very wonderful powerhouses of voice. And they- I recognize hers, but not his, because I love her in Rushmore. Yeah. And this is my favorite of the season so far, is with Rondere and Snaggle Root and Winter Bloom sitting there together, talking, and going over kind of like the history, the hurt to the pain, and then near the end is just kind of like that hope where she gives them a little flower. Yeah. That's kind of like a promise to keep. And that's what he says later to Theo is like, "I kept a promise and now I have another one to keep." Yeah. And that is so important because we don't know much about, especially at the aunt wives or anything like that. Yeah. And so that gives him a whole new purpose which connects him very much so with the audience because like watching those two walk away holding branches, I fucking lost it. It was so sweet and so wholesome and was just, it was all around just absolutely beautiful, well done. It was a nice moment. I kind of just want to know which one of those inks killed that guy with an axe. I do too. They even showed it in the- I'm kind of still unknown. In the last time on, you see that guy get waxed by an axe and you know it was an ant. And they picked up the axe like, oh they left their stuff, it's like a people at who used the axe? So it was an ant. One of those inks knows how to wield an axe. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. Like you tried to chop me down. You probably went through that axe on Wix style at that dude. Yeah. You went flying. That was like Gimli. That was like a Gimli throw. It was badass. Yeah, you mentioned, so the inks let go, the prisoners, even the wild men and it turns out here and his shoulders back at Estrid's side like, I got your girl, you okay? And he's like, let's do make out time, we're safe now. He's like leaning in for the kiss and Estrid's betrothed. Hagen. Hagen. Hagen? Hagen? I can't remember. The way that Estrid or he just like stands over blocks? Yeah. He's like, ah. This guy. He's like tragic. I feel so bad. And he just melts, he just wants to love and be loved. He just, no, this feels more like I just needed. I've been away from, ah, I've been out to sea, I've been almost killed by spiders. I lost my horse. I need some comfort. The horse is fine, which was great because especially after the last episode, we were like, oh, did they, did he just like take the horse back and get everybody and he did take priority and took the horse back first? Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Honestly, surprise. I guess in my head, I was thinking that the fiance didn't really exist. Yeah. I didn't think so. Yeah. I thought it was more like a, oh, I have a boyfriend, not really, but that's the only way you leave me alone. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was actually surprised too. I didn't think that was going to be a real thing. But I wonder like where they're going to take this. It kind of, so at the end of this scene, you kind of, this is the end of this story for this episode. Um, around here, like you said, you know, in Theo kind of have their moment and Theo's like, I got to go do my thing and, and around here's like, I got to go do my thing and you know, I've made a promise. And so this feels like, and obviously I hope, I hope they're going to make the decision. And we continue to follow around here, not Theo. We better. So this seems like the end of Theo's story for us, right? For now, at least. Yeah. I probably come back at some point randomly because I'm still convinced he's, he's going to be. Yeah. Nazgul. Nazgul. Yeah, Hungary. And, uh, yeah, I'm actually interested in where this now love triangle between, uh, Estrid, Hagen, and, and, and a soldier like if that continues or if that, if, yeah, Estrid now has her man and they're, they're, they're now out of the story and we're just going to follow a steel door and a rendezvous, maybe it's not works. So I'm a triangle. So talking when he, when he writes women, he does it very well. There is one thing that he does not do well. And that is give them names. This is true. Um, and which is kind of reminds me of like the, the, uh, Rohirum story that's coming out in December. Yes. Uh, the daughter was never named doesn't have a name. So yeah. But now they've named her Hera, uh, but Estrid's wife, uh, is unnamed in the books. So she, Estrid could be who he marries. I don't think so, but it's quite possible because she's unnamed and just could be about anybody at this point who's romantically linked to a seal door. Interesting. Yeah. I guess. Well, I mean, possible. Yeah. So possible. Well, I mean, we'll see if she's in the sense where are we kind of, are we kind of rooting for this, and you're watching this, she kind of, I am, but at the same time, I'm like, should I be there, I mean, it's weird, I like we've barely seen any of Estrid and I like her backstory and I like that she's the, if you, if you're to take that she accepted the mark of Adar as, uh, uh, to survive because she has no other choice and then that's why she took it, took it, burned it off and then the rest of her people are doing that too. And then it turns and then turns out there's more of a misunderstanding and then they become more friendly with the, the, if not the new Minorians per se, the, at least the Dunier, the faith, the ones of the faithful, um, there's potential there and, and, and I'm intrigued by that. And, and sure, yeah, I'm like, I'm, I'm kind of rooting for, for, for, for Isaldor to hook up. Yeah. Get, get, get some finally after all his work. Right. After actually the last, uh, I think it was the second episode, I think it was the second or the third, when she stabs him in the leg, I want to shout out the writers, the producers, the directors, everybody who had a say in a seal, they're saying you're not supposed to pull it out. You're supposed to leave it in. Yeah. That is one of the only pieces of media that has ever done that because it's accurate. Yeah. You're stabbed. You do not pull it out. Well, unless you're about to be stitched up, well, yeah, then you let a healer do it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To see that, that piece of media like debunked and, you know, made accurate. Let's go back to the hardfoots and we're going to talk a little bit. We get a little bit on the legend of Susa. So Poppy name drops her leader, the hardfoots leader, Sadak, Sadak Barrows, and to, to Gondabel. Is it? Man, I'm going to. Gondabel, Gondabel. Gondabel. I can't. Gondabel. Gondabel. I'm telling her the story of a promised land for halflings called Susa, Poppy. And so she takes her to this wall and it kind of tells this beautiful story of like one day we'll be taking all our kind, we'll be, we'll find a land of rivers and, and a flows and, and we'll all be happy and like this utopia, right? And, and Poppy kind of has to break the news and say like, yeah, no, it was Norrie. Norrie kind of breaks the news and is like, yeah, we're wanderers. We don't have a home. So both their sides are sort of, and this to me, and correct me if I'm wrong guys, I got the sense that this is sort of like their utopia is going to be. The Shire. The Shire. Right? Like they eventually will find. Well, yeah. Right. Yeah. That Susa is the Shire. I mean, it looked like the big tree. It is the Shire. As well. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't sure if there was like something else here that I'm missing, but I was kind of like, okay. Sure. Well, we know it's the Shire. Because Susa is the Westron word for the Shire. Oh, isn't really. You know that. I don't know that. I did not realize that. Well, now we all know that. But what I'm saying is you can stop speculating that. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I even also just felt it was obvious, but I love that. I love the language that they just throw in like that. It just. So good. Right? Yeah. Then the evil writers show up again, you know, from that we're sent from the evil wizard and they just walk up and just smack the shit out of the gun and then bring her and then try to back up and then help her back up. That's where all of the. So now like we talked about how like it kind of looked like, you know, an on stage production. Now we know where all the money went and that was to make them like the height and sizes accurate. That's where the money went. Yeah. But they, she doesn't give up popular and they basically say, well, the wizard, the wizard knows and he'll be back and he'll he'll puff and puff and blow your hobbit hole down. It's kind of the vibe. I got it. I was like, okay. And they just leave, you know, and so we'll see what what comes out of that. That's the end of that story for this episode. You guys have any thing you want to add there? I think so. No. The final little piece of this episode and it's probably one of the most badass scenes I've seen in a long fucking time. Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm glad you're all are having a little moment moment here by, by a lake. They're talking about, you know, the ring and the choices that we're making and Elrond's like basically I don't trust the ring and she's kind of like, yeah, but you know, you can trust me in a way and she's like, no matter what happens, you know, Sauron is our priority. And if you choose, if the choice comes between me or killing Sauron, you know, you know, choose Sauron is kind of, and Elrond's like, okay, I will any kind of, and this is I kind of thought they were having a moment here and I get you guys are buddies, but they're it feels like more of a, I don't know, it felt more heartfelt, and there was a moment where he kind of like puts his hand on her on her face. I don't know. I was getting a little love sparkle vibe, like there was a connection here. Really? I don't know. I think, I think that it's a deep care that this maybe this is a modern thing and maybe and, you know, honestly, maybe it's kind of a man thing too that we associate, um, physical closeness and touching with that with a romantic relationship when actually it's not necessarily yeah. Sure. 100% I'm not, I'm not convinced it's the thing, but there, I could see why others may think that. I don't know. Oh, yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I think they may imply it and going back to my reasoning here is like, I think the writers want a love arc of some sort, like a love dynamic, right, whether and I think they're going to try to find that and I think, and I don't know if the common person knows enough about Gladrail and Oron to disassociate and throw that out the window. Well, we need Kelliboard to come in because that's who she varies. Oh, really? She, she, who is absolutely around at this time. Yeah. Yeah. But just. Yeah. Yeah. Not here. Yeah. Okay. I did want to point out something to you. Um, so I also love like, like with the trilogy spin, like did you know, um, and one of the things like you kind of brought up with like the, like more physical affection reminded me of a quote from the fellowship and something that happened in, uh, like the making of an adapter photo was stabbed and he's woken up in, uh, in Rivendell. And I don't remember who said it, but it was, uh, Ian McKellen. So somebody had said that, you know, they had tried to make it more affectionate this particular thing. Yeah. Oh, this is Sean Asantel in the story. Yeah. It was Sean Asant. Yeah. I think he said he wanted to make it more gay and which we didn't say it in like a joke in what he said in such a sincere way because, uh, Ian McKellen helped guide the scene to where originally it was just Sam going in and kind of like touching his shoulder and like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad you're okay. He's like, no, what you need to do. Grab his hand, you know, lovingly caress because this is the quote from the book is at that moment. There was a knock on the door and Sam came in. He ran to Frodo and took his hand awkwardly and shyly. He stripped it gently and then he blushed and turned away hastily. And I thought that that was also really important to whether like, uh, people believe that, you know, Frodo and Sam, uh, had actual feelings for each other. It's very heavily implied throughout the media that, you know, there was something between them, um, whether it is or not the importance of that type of affection, I think is very important because it's one of the reasons why Aragon is such a topic of non-toxic masculinity. He shows and expresses in words and in physical affection, love between him and everyone in the fellowship that he has come close with. And I think that they brought that here because that was the vibe that I got. There's always at least some point during one of the episodes where I'm like, this feels like the trilogy. And I thought that the truth, the truth, the trilogy was full of that too. It really was. It was full of it. And I feel like they brought that here, bringing that type of non-toxic affection between people. Yeah, I think you articulated that way better than I did a few moments ago when I tried, but that's exactly where I'm going with this. And you're right. I felt the same thing watching the original trilogy whenever it was in the cinema originally. And at that time, I'd never even heard the term toxic masculinity or read any type of feminist thought or anything like that. But since I think that's what's making me tie that all together is it's absolutely this portrayal of something that maybe we've lost in our culture that, yeah, wow, that's great. I love that. So an orc, just to keep things moving, an orc takes is taking a random shot at a horse, I think that's running through the, the forest. They're trying to take out a horse and, and like the one in a million shot, an orc takes like this, an orc would never be so lucky to hit anybody with an arrow ever, but, but it hits an elf right in the gut with a, with a stray arrow. I'm going to say it's the hand man, the hand man goes down, the hand man goes down. And it doesn't, it's not looking good and glad real unknowingly or seemingly unknowingly heals him using the power to ring, which I didn't know that was new to me. Or that the ring had, no, I mean, try to, try to think about this, they, they certainly, they certainly heal while they're in war in, but not because of any kind of direct action that Galadriel takes and it's not even that kind of healing either. It's more of a spiritual or emotional healing. If anything, the healer is Elrond. Right. Whenever, whenever his healing is described, it's, it's more, really more in association with him being the eldest of the, the new Menorian line. Well, that's why they're, Frodo too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, Aragorn says, you know, in, I'm not, I can't remember how much of this is in the movie. He finds that he has Sam go look for the Atlas plant and whatnot, but this is a, it's made a much more of a big deal in the books that the, the hands of the king or the hands of a healer. And, and it's, it's because the new Menorians are, um, have, have this elf blood and this elf healing and that had their, their arts and they know how to use this plant. And it's not just something that just anybody can use to the same effect. And Aragorn makes the comment that Elrond is the, I guess, you know, current living eldest of my house because his brother started the line of kings in new menor. And he heals Frodo at, uh, after he's been, been stabbed. But I never associated any of that with like the power of, of their rings. So they're, they're more to preserve, to preserve knowledge and culture and yeah, but, but either way it felt very magical, right? This isn't like the arrow really disintegrates almost out. Like they don't even pull the arrow out or just, no, she just forced ganks it out with the ringpot. It's very like force, I force shield you, you know, like, I know I'm making a lot of stories references as well. But it's like that. You're right. It is like that. Um, I, here's my problem with this, with, with things like this, when you can do that, now every time someone gets injured and if there's a ring within like a horse ride distance. Why don't they just do that? Right. Exactly. Yeah. Now we're always going to be asking why isn't, you know, why can't you do it? Like now that I have to come up with rules, when it works, when it does it, so I'm a little like kind of on that moment from a story perspective. Oh, it just occurred to me that, um, the series has made a big deal of, of talking about, um, with, with the whole thing with the tree withering and dying and how the Mithril saves that. Yeah. It was the whole point in the first place is to make these rings to save the elves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Within the context of the show, I suppose. Okay. Yeah. If you didn't know any, anything other than what they've just shown you that you could say, okay, well, this is the healing power of the ring. Okay. Yeah. I can't think about that. So glad rails like take, she takes the ring off and hands it to Elrond kind of implies like keep it safe. Keep it hidden. Keep it safe. Yeah. Keep it secret. Uh, and she just is like, I'll, I'll buy as much time as I can and runs off on her horse and proceeds to just beat the shit out of my ass. Like, like takes out like fire arrows, jumps over, like leans back and dodges a sword blow. Like I'm 15 guys get acts. I don't even know. Like I lost count. It's so good. Uh, and then she, she looks like she's going to get away. Like it looks like she's going to take out and she has time to stop, have a conversation like, Hey, you guys don't belong here. Like she's not confident where she's like, I could get away, but I'm going to get a lecture you guys real quick. Right? Like, and I'm like, okay, this feels right. I feel right. This is an elf thing to do, right? Like, and, and she's about to take off again and, uh, she gets, uh, taken down, I guess by a chain or something, something takes knocks her off her horse and it come to find out, uh, it's a dark and he snuffs out her flame arrows like hello, hello there, um, and that's where we're going to see because, um, so I know kind of like the surface of this. So Chris, you may be able to bring in some more details, but at our is speaking, Kwenya. Kwenya, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And says, I'm not going to try and say it. And I'm going to see la aluminum in the elbow. Yes. A star shines on the hour of our meeting. And this is very important, especially to book readers, because this is the greeting that Frodo gives Gilsor, yes, when he meets in one of the elves that helps kind of guide them to, uh, Rivendell. And that's, that was phenomenal, uh, choice of words. Yeah. Why? I mean, I definitely when, when he says that, I mean, yeah, I know exactly like, oh, okay, this is, I'm missing something. Why, why is this important? Exactly. It's a reference, but I don't. There's some interesting things as to like, what the hell is Adar? He's speaking Kwenya, which is interesting. It's a particular Elvish, uh, like dialect tone, something like that. It's an older version. It's, it's, the analogy is like it's elf. Yeah. Basically. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's not normally spoken anymore except, except in valinor, but that's, that was the language. It's older than, than Elrond and Gladriel, right? I mean, he's, he's, he was around, at the beginning of the second age when Saran was given that speech that, but it's also like, how old is he at that point too? Right. I mean, I don't know. Yeah. So it was interesting. He's speaking that. Hasn't aged today. But yeah, this greeting, um, it was known as an elf greeting. Um, I saw it. There's a, there's a documentary that I watched where a talk in himself, it's a, one of the film clips we have of him. He's writing it in the fan-oriented characters and when, and he's describing it. So there's, it, it's significant, just, just, just for that. Well, let's, let's just think, think about what An was saying. And the scene in the book, when, when the, the hobbits meet Gildor, this, this is right after the first scare with the Black Rider and the, what makes the Black Rider scurry off is the elves come along singing and, and then they all talk about it. And Frodo says, Ellen, you know, he says that he's greets him that way. And then Gildor's reaction is as, uh, he says, ah, speak no secrets, friends. Here is a scholar in the old tongue, uh, Billow was a good master. And it's kind of a, this moment that tells you that I'm an elf friend. Yeah. And I think that that's maybe what we're supposed to be reading here is, we, we think of him as like the father of orcs, but it's reminding you that, um, this is, this is, this is, this is coming from the idea that the orcs were created by Morgoth as corruptions of elves. And one of those elves, maybe the first one was Otar. Yeah. And he's greeting Gladriel as, in a way, almost like a villain would say, like greets, like they're great, one of their greatest foes, like welcome, like a, like a bond villain, well, like being overly welcome to bond when he walks into their lair. Which is why I, one thing I do want to note is the, I don't know if you guys caught it, but the song over the end credits of old time bombodil, uh, sung, was sung by Rufus rain white. I, I didn't see that in the credits, but yeah, I'd love the song, but, you know, it was really catchy. I was like, that's an earworm, uh, uh, I kind of want to go, well, listen to that a few times on Spotify. That was pretty good. I was kind of like at the end there, I was like, I was like, I hope there's another verse to this because it kind of ends and I was like, I hope there's, I hope there's more there. But that, I guess a little more ring a ding dillow in it. Yeah. I guess if like what I'm loving about this series, just to wrap this up, what I'm loving about this series are moments like that and where they're like, to get Rufus rain white to sing the, an in song of old time bombodil at the end of episode four of a series, right? This could have been like an end credit movie song, right? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. I feel like they're really trying to level up this show. This feels very prestige TV. This feels like, okay, we're going, we're, we're putting out all the stops. We're going to make you happy fans. And I'm, listen, no matter if they might fail here and there or do some weird things with like ring powers and narratively like move things around, like I get the sense that they're trying really hard, right? They listened. Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. They listen. And I'm kind of here for that. And I appreciate that kind of hard work being put in for the show. No, no, no cause of doing this week. But let's hope next week we get, we go back and feeling we will, they've been doing really well in breaking up the episodes and like making us wonder as well when they come up next. One of the favorite things in shows is when they do so well with a certain storyline that when the other one comes up, you're like, Oh, yeah, and then you become so invested in that one that you forget about the other one and like back and forth. And that's what they've been doing here. It's kind of like, Oh, yeah, that's right. Casa doom. Yeah, this show definitely does my favorite because you're so invested in what's currently happening. Yeah. And that's impressive. It's, it's good. I mean, I like that the show doesn't feel like it has a main character, right? You know what I'm saying? The first season, I think lean too heavily on Gladriel is like, we got a female lead and we're going to lean into that and I was like, Oh, okay. Right. Like, I don't, but like the more season two went on, I felt like there are several main characters. You know, you started really like, and I think the audience responded to that, especially with Elrond and Durin, that relationship, you know, like those moments, I think we all were like that, that we want more of that. And so I think season two, they're leaning into this more ensemble view of the show, right? And I think that's a smart decision as well. All right, guys. Well, that'll do it for this week. Thank you guys, everybody for joining us to recap episode four of the rings of power. We'll be back next week for episode five. Hopefully we'll give you the as much deep dive as you listen today and more so could be, could have some special guests were working on. Stay tuned for that. But thanks for listening and watching if you're over there. But if you want to leave a comment or leave a rating on a podcast, do that because what that does is it helped people like you find us. And that's kind of what we want. We want people to listen to this and really, and really dig in on it and really learn more about Tolkien and the rich history and be happy about the fandom as we all are and what's going on right now with this great show. And don't forget to also check out couchtube.com for all the latest awesome things unfiltered and unfiltered and authentic look at pop culture where we recap shows like this like you're listening to right now, as well as like daily articles on video games, movies, TV shows, anime, you name it, we're talking about it over there and we have a vibrant community. If you want to join that community, please do so. That support helps us make shows like this and supports the writers and the creators like us to continue to make shows like this. So please do that. Go and support. We love you. We love you. I love you. And that'll do it. Until next week, thank you, Chris. Thank you. Thanks, Drew. Thanks, Drew. [MUSIC] [MUSIC]
Get ready for a thrilling recap and explanation of the latest twists and turns in The Rings of Power episode 4, featuring confrontations with Barrow-wights, Ents, and the mysterious appearance of Tom Bombadil. Don’t miss out on the in-depth analysis, character dynamics, and theories about what’s next in this epic fantasy adventure!
