From the team that brought you the award-winning show "Retro Replay" and the Emmy-nominated comedy series "Con Man" comes a new idea just crazy enough to be good. Introducing couch soup! I know, I know, you're probably wondering, "What is couch soup?" Well, couch soup is content for your hungry nerd soul. Daily articles from fans, not pundits, weekly podcasts that contain a multiverse of opinions on all things pop culture. Exclusive videos and weekly live streams where we laugh, scream and sometimes have technical difficulties. All created by folks like you, the gamers, the film nerds, the TV, bingers, comic book lovers, bookworms and pop culture enthusiasts all in one giant bowl of beautiful disgusting soupy goodness at couchsoup.com. Welcome back to watching now and welcome back to Middle Earth as after two long years, guys, since this first season of "The Rings of Power." We are finally here with season two with a three-episode drop that came out Thursday night, three long episodes, I might add. So that's like, if you're not a fan of three hours, sit down to three hour watches, this was for the faint of heart. But today we're going to dive into all three episodes. We're going to start with the first episode, "Elven Kings Under the Sky." I want to introduce my guest on who is going to be the hype for the show, she is here, she's bringing the "Elven Kings" hype. I brought in my best friend, one of my closest friends from a long time ago, Chris Mills, he is going to be our librarian, the man knows everything there is to know about, uh, Tolkien. I mean, I'm hyping you up, buddy, but listen, you know everything there is to know according to how I know it, right? Which is like, I'm coming in as the film nerd, like I know the films, I read "The Hobbit," I read "The Lord of the Rings," like in like high school, right? So that's sort of where my POV is, I'm going to come in as that, and I'm going to be the kind of host, I'm going to look at it through the lens, I'm going to recap, we're going to recap the shows, we're going to kind of give you a little bit of a non-spoiler reaction right at the front, just kind of break it down, like how we feel. We're going to go through, uh, scene by scene, we're going to kind of talk about what happens every episode and what's important and kind of talk about the big questions that, uh, unless you're a big Tolkien nerd, you may not know what's going on, and even if you are, we may hopefully provide a little bit extra context on some of the stuff that's, uh, that's going on in the show and the things that are, that they're taking liberties and some of the things that they're paying tribute to, which is really cool. Um, so with that said, uh, let's jump right in. They first start off with a really, really important recap, which I think we all were appreciative of. Yeah, I turned on the episode, I was like, ooh, okay, I'll recap, I need this, I need this. Cause I was like, oh yeah, it's been a while. Yeah, everybody can go back and rewatch the first season of which I will say those who did will notice that Amazon put in commercials in all the episodes. And I'm fucking furious, furious, so I feel so bad for all of us who did that. On, on you got to pay the two 99 extra to do the ad free content. Okay, look, they already get enough money from me. Just pony it up. Yeah, so that recap was really helpful. I found that really helpful, but then we go right away and I was a little confused because it starts off with like a, we're seeing what, what looks like more door, but it's like, not really. It says the start of the second age, which right away, I was kind of confused by a little bit. And we kind of jump into what looks like a young man, giving a speech to orcs and our old friend. Aldar, yeah, is there old. Yeah, he's there. And we come to learn that this is Sauron, a young, a different version of Sauron, kind of trying to convince the orcs that this is their time we're going to do our thing. Let's let's take over Middle Earth. Yeah, yeah, a few of you may die, but. Right, right, right. And I like that. Yeah, it all does sort of brings up the crown and he sort of goes this whole like yeah yeah everybody saw around right let's give it, let's give it a hike for Sauron. Yeah, and then a little backstabby McStaberson happens a little, what a Julius Caesar action and then all the other orcs kind of jump in and cut down Sauron, which seemed rather easy. And when you think about like in my mind, I'm thinking about man, that seemed like a lot, a lot easier than it should have been. Well, in my first thought too was like it took me a hot minute to be like, Oh, Oh, this is, this is before, like there wasn't any indication of like two years previous or you know anything like that or 20 years or however was in between, right, because it takes a long time for Sauron to regenerate when he dies. So I was like, is this some sort of like imposter that it like at ours trying to like place here, right, follow that because they knew Sauron's was more about like second and command. I was very confused for a hot minute. Yeah, I think it's interesting because I mean, I think there's a few clues here because he does mention, you know, the defeat of more growth, which it's like a does the title not say the beginning of the second age. Yeah, it says this, I think at the start of the second or the beginning of the second age. Yeah, but like again if you're not following like what's going on, like that doesn't mean really much for I think the average gradual. And I'm not a casual fan and even I didn't even realize that it was the beginning beginning I just thought it was just second age. Yeah, I mean it is the whole series is the second age. Yeah, I didn't think it was anything before we had seen I was like, oh, it's cool. So we're totally doing. I guess. So Chris, like walk me through like a like what is important what's important about this moment. Like I guess there's something about more about the start of the second age I'm assuming is because. Well, let's talk about that yeah that it's not the death he he can't be killed. He he at the end of the set that what the end of the first age is this giant battle where Elrond's dad basically makes a successful plea to the Balar which is sort of like a pantheon, you could interpret it as like a pantheon of gods, even though they are this is a monotheistic religion as well. He makes a plea for them to come and help against the wars and more Gotham there's this big final battle called the war wrap where more golf is completely defeated and cast into the outer darkness forever so he can't directly influence the world anymore. At that time Sauron pretends to repent and they say well, then you know get your ass to valon or for judgment and he doesn't go. And so that's when the that's how the first age ends. As far as the as far as the books go. So what we're seeing here is the beginning of the second age, and all of the orcs and armies and what not under Morgoth have been kind of diminished and that's who you see gathering their adar, and what I think is important here for if you call back to the season one, he does addar that is he he claims that he killed Sauron, and which is a little is a strange thing to say and they wonder is he aligned or does he really believe it and so I think what this is what we're what's being revealed here is that he really believes that he did kill Sauron in this moment. Right. Yeah, so just to kind of keep going so he everybody that kills the stabs are under death and they kind of stand over him like. Did we get him, and he kind of does this sort of like implosion explosion moment where, yes, everything becomes ice for like miles away and everybody's covered in like, you know, snow ice and then. So it's like he explodes and in my mind, I was thinking it's sort of like the force ghost moment where he sort of like, you know, like okay this is the moment where he like leaves his body or something. Yeah, but come the wrong yeah yeah but come to find out it's sort of like his blood pools in like falls is oozes its way down into the caverns below a really gross visual way to depict the unhousing of a fauna and yeah. Yeah, it's sort of just and then coalesces into this like pool and then moments later or years later a millennia later you don't really know like you see a rat scurry up and the ooze like grabs the rat and just strangles it and takes its life essence. The poor rat just like hey I'm looking for some water in this wasteland, you know, did this get this thing give you guys vibes of golems caves. Yeah I didn't think about golems cave that's interesting. Yeah I did think about venom though too. This was a cool special effect like props to the VFX it just looked really cool like or it looked organic and visceral like, I don't know what I wanted here but this was a thing. And it was not it was well done what it was I don't know if you guys have any kind of reminded me of the miniatures that they would make. Because it kind of started with like an outer wide angle and then kind of zoom down as the you know thick blood was just like pooling down and it continued to like a wider shot that reminded me exactly those miniatures that they would use in the trilogy. And there's just it was so well done and just so beautiful and dark. I was like okay, I see this production value. Yeah I see the money is the end of the money. Did you guys have any like my first instinct was I didn't think of Sauron as this sort of slimy viscous entity thing right like I don't know what I guess I don't know like if I were to kill. I don't know and maybe that's because he's more he's he's an evil entity but I'm assuming if I kill Gandalf and his blood drips into something he's not a viscous thing right like even though they're similar beings right in a way. Yeah that's that's the thing is ultimately this is a sort of a poetic a visual form of a there's just artistically revealing on the screen that this isn't evil character this there's nothing necessarily canon about this. Okay, we can we could talk a little more about it would be specific specifically with Gandalf you mentioned they are the same type of being but Gandalf and the wizards are a little bit different because in in the case of Sauron. He while his essence is a spirit like Gandalf's true essence is a spirit. He can take on different forms like just like we're changing clothes is how it's described. Whereas the wizards because of their job are actually incarnate so their spirits are tied to their bodies and if you kill the body it dies like a person would die. So I'm wondering they're showing this sort of viscous form to kind of like elude the fact that he could change his visual appearance and that's why he can be so viscous and gross. And it's funny too that they initially present him as kind of like that black viscous sludge. Yeah, because from what I remember he's not actually inherently evil. And he was a he was like to see a mitar that like served my arm and like served the light. And so he was originally like nothing's evil in the beginning. Exactly. Yeah, more about wasn't either. I thought he was totally doing the right thing and was having a great time. And so it's the same with Sauron. He's not inherently evil. So it was an interesting visualization to have that be his death to life form. Right. Yeah. It's kind of like a fallen form, I guess. Yeah. I mean, but to be fair. I mean he's already been through. He's committed many, many wicked evil days in the first stage by this point already. So he's already fair. He's corrupt. So there. And you can see this and let's call it how it is that that that pep talk he was given the orcs was hot garbage. So he came up as a complete douchebag. I'm like, hey, some of you may not make it, but we're going to do this thing. Everyone's like, I don't know. They're not really accepting him as the new dark Lord, like you might expect. This is the douchey Sauron, even the other, even how brands got like a couple more charisma rolled, rolled higher on charisma than this guy. Well, they're setting their, this is kind of foreshadowing to what's going to happen here too. And later episodes when you, they're showing you a different side of works. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I don't want to get into that now. I think we're definitely there's some shots and we can dive into that. Just to keep things moving. So he's sludge form finds like crawls out of the cave. It finally gets enough. Who knows how much time has passed. It doesn't really tell you I'm assuming thousands of years. I don't know. More like hundreds. Hundreds. I'm not sure. I mean, the second age seems like it goes on for a long time. And I feel like we're near the end of it right now in present time issue. Yeah. So the second age, it's time compressed quite a bit, but you kind of have to do it that way because some of the characters that are especially been main norming in characters, wouldn't even be born at the same time as some of the events that you also need to see with the elves. The period of 3,441 years from the defeat of Morgoth to the first defeat of Sauron. So I'd say a thousand years. I mean, at least 1500, I'm going to call it. Yeah. Until specialist tells us otherwise. Yeah, exactly. Let's say 1500 years. Okay. This could really could be at any time in the second age with the wagon and the lady in the new body because this ultimately doesn't have nothing is said about this moment in the books. Well, no, but we do know because he finds the lady and he kills the lady in the wagon and takes the form of Halbrandt that we know the sower and we know now and he's like, then he wanders off and he's like, I'm going to go seek revenge. And he knows and he just wanders off and he runs into this old man, right? He runs into the old his old friend. This leads us into the events of the first season. Right, exactly. So it seems like it took a long time for him to regenerate. So he meets a friend on the road and the friend tells him, like, come with us, the past is over there with the orcs, you know, like, we're going to, we're going to sail the high seas. He's carrying that crest, right, that, that. Claggerial sees and thinks he's the one thing that was supposed to prove that he was the king, the king of the south. Yeah, the king of the south. I feel like this prologue or whatever you want to call it is sort of tying up a lot of loose ends that a lot of people had problems with from season one right away. Like, why Sauron in the middle of the ocean? Why does he have this crest? You know, why does he look like this guy? You know what I'm saying, like, it's sort of, they're sort of retconning in a way. We're not retconning, but at least clarifying why this is all why this all came about, which is kind of cool. I found this pretty interesting. I don't know if you guys found this prologue. And then I, as soon as I realized what was happening, I was like, okay, now this is cool. And I quite enjoyed that. And it was, that, that, that crunching under the wheel when he picked the wheel picks up the body was devastating. Oh yeah. But I, I love this too, because this, when he meets the old man, that is like locking eyes with that crest is the, like, first part of us watching his subtle deception and manipulation and his lies and seeing how like he starts going from this section through to what happens on the boat and leaving him to die. You can see, like, it, it almost like gives sympathy with the audience like, oh, maybe you might be a good guy. You know, maybe he's got a good heart still. No, he's doing that on purpose. So it shows even further from what happened in season one, how he's more easily able to get into the original's heart and mind, and how they're going to continually describe it. So seeing that part started the greatest lord of deception. Yeah, that's a, that's a such a good point too, because in season one, we are presented with a mystery of who this character is and now as the audience we are in the know and I think this is said, this is going to be a theme at least in these first three episodes that Sauron works so much better when we know. And then you can see him be as evil and manipulate it as possible and you get the bear McCreary evil music swelling up with, you couldn't do. When you aren't meant to know who this is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a good point. And they did a nice job too. I think making you think, oh, maybe he, but he got humbled right like he, that debt like being murdered by, or betrayed or and the orcs like now. Oh, he's like, oh yeah, you're right old man. I, that past is behind me. I'm going to do a new thing. Yeah, my own way. Yeah, no, maybe not so much right now. He's learned from that particular and says like, okay, let's manipulate because it's another one of those like common themes that we'll see come up is he, he says things very deliberately to where you will fill in the blanks of what you want the situation that he's saying to be. And that's, that's a beautiful thing that they do. Yeah, he tells you the lot that you want to hear. Exactly. So then we jumped back into present day right away. We're back in it after the nice title sequence. Elrond and glad rail or on the on a chase right the glad rail is trying to grab the rings from Elrond's horse. I thought it was a game. I thought it was a game too. I wasn't quite sure if like this sort of was. Yeah, I guess so yeah. And in my mind, I'm thinking like man, I guess Elrond's pretty good on horse better than glad rail if you can out outrun her. And then he gets to Lori and right and our on, you know, pleads, you know, to the, to the king of the elves. And, and that the rings of we've been deceived these rings are most likely part of the Sauron's plan. Glad rail finally reveals that the hell brand is Sauron. All the elves know so like it's pretty early in the season right like they're like listen all that shit that happened in season one all this deception. Like everybody knows now right like this is guys Sauron's back. There's no like if thens or butts, which I thought was nice is like it's just get it all out of the way. There's some nice politicking here. I thought there's the dialogue here was pretty nice. And we see Elrond kind of sticking to his guns and he jumps off the jumps off the fucking cliff. I have a couple cool points about this. So it's, it's fun seeing the comparison between like the Elrond from rings of power and the Elrond from the trilogy that he says twice. The rings need to be destroyed or the rain needs to be destroyed. And it's, it was really cool because I, I had just finished going through the Silmarillion again thank you Don Marshall for your explaining the Silmarillion in a great way that I can digest. One of the parts was about Elrond's mother, who was taken her kind of who had a Silmarill and instead of being taken and captured because of having it she dove off a cliff. And it was great seeing that I hope it was intentional I think they do things like this very intentionally that Elrond almost does the exact same thing but he doesn't you know die or get turned into a bird. But he dives off the cliff with the rings and I thought that was a really cool comparison between him and his mother. That was so cool. I thought about it like jumping to the cliff too yeah yeah yeah the politicking was cool seeing that like Elrond continuously is just like not corrupted by it even though we know he's going to get a ring in the future. But yeah well I think I like this scene and then we will just make this one kind of one move on but I like to see because I think everybody has valid points right like I didn't think anybody was making a dumb argument right now. And it all felt like yeah glad you're like I don't think he did anything to it right like I didn't see him touch the rings, they look pure to me, I want to save my kind. And the king's like yeah that sounds pretty good and all runs like yeah but we don't really know I mean it's all runs pretty clever you know like there's most likely part of his fucking plan. But they're all like yeah but what else are we going to do die and they're like well yeah you know maybe we'll just go you know you know and and so and everybody sort of weigh in all these options and I thought this is actually a pretty good. It's kind of a well written scene where I didn't feel like well yeah why don't you just listen to that guy he's a smart. Yeah, everyone's being an idiot or other ones being in came across a post on Reddit of everybody just complaining about this scene for some reason. They they were like it was so cheesy the way that like the rings just like a fell and collateral like was able to pick one up at one point, and like. I thought that was an interesting thing to complain about yeah that comes up later because the ring basically chose her. That leads me to one of my other points is seeing the rings especially again there in the beginning, and later on, I need to know why they didn't go with the original design from the trilogy and why they went with this ring pop. I want to do the same thing. Our design is so beautiful. I'm going to figure it out but interesting to find out and I guess what's interesting is we actually haven't even seen the rings yet well we saw him in the end of the first season. We saw him at the end of the first season but no one has like no one seen them and and I think what's also interesting is oh Ron like there's moments where he's holding the rings and it feels like the rings are talking or like trying to influence him. He's not abiding right which is kind of interesting like he is the willpower to kind of fight off that sort of draw which I think we see later so. We quickly jump ahead and we see we can jump through this pretty quickly but. Halbran's Halbran Sauron I'll just call him Halbran for the time he changes. He's in Mordor and he meets Aldar and the orcs have taken over. They're forcing humans to take the brand and you know they're kind of doing the thing and I guess this is like Halbran's way. He's like I'm going to manipulate Aldar here and he's in captive and so Aldar locks him up and he kind of makes a deal. He's like hey I'm friends with the elves I can help you I can help you find Sauron blah blah blah and Aldar kind of falls. Which I felt a little weak this part I was a little like if you don't know. I actually kind of want to shout out to some of my mutuals on threads specifically. Who actually really enjoyed that's those couple of scenes specifically because. So there's there's people who quite enjoy in the original trilogy you know Arab or pushing open the doors and they're like. Oh you know this particular section is also something people are really liking having. Pulling him with the chain and him just like groaning getting to his knees and another time you know he's like forcing him to kneel at his feet and he does it very seductively. And like you like this pain you wish that I had killed you you'll beg for it and the whole Internet was like, yes. People get thirsty for Halbran. People people already shipping Aldar and Halbran probably I would not be surprised I like it I like that we need to bring up the fanfic let's get it going. Yeah and I think I think you know the only the only key scene here is that he kind of like. Tames the feral beast you know and he's some great dark language to the to the yes. Yeah. I really love this part. Well yeah and he has a background with wolves and him and him he himself has taken the form of a wolf when and had a big battle in the so I'm really. And so if you know that and you're seeing like oh they're he's he's in the same prison as this wolf that's supposed to terrorize him doubt no that that wolf is not going to be. That's not doesn't pose a danger there there's there's guys or buddies. That was that was one of the points too I'm so glad you made that because I was such a good. Does this is a good little thing those like subtle details and especially it makes it fun for people who are like. Really involved with the details of Lord of the Rings instead of kind of more casual fans which is great to be a casual fan but it helps. And it's really fun when people of that caliber and like both get together like did you know or like all these cool things to be able to help. Elevate those more casual fans to be like here's why this is even cooler than you thought it was. Yeah absolutely because I didn't know that which is great. I want to mention to the actor changes between the ad are from season one and season two. We're not totally sure why the actor changed from season one it might have been sort of scheduling conflict something like that. But that was a very seamless transition to where I didn't even question it. And I had to go back and look at the actor change but did he really. And I had to go back and the performance. The performance so that what's the I don't know either the actors names I'm sorry but the new actor. He he really seems to channel a continuity in the performance. And the voice. Yeah. But yeah, I think that's it. You know they did a good job because no one's complaining about it. Exactly. I have not seen any like hardly anybody talking about it. Yeah that's a good catch. I did skip we should jump it back to the stranger and nori we get a we get we go back to them. The stranger and nori are lost in the desert just trotting along the strangers looking for that star formation which I'm assuming. You would see it unless he's hiking to a different hemisphere right Chris I mean I don't that's kind of. Yeah that's that was one of my pet piece with season one is he wants to go to the east where the stars are strange but there is no such place. If you if they wanted to go south where the stars are strange sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That would make sense. Yeah. You'd have to be hiking a long way east and the stars are going to stay the same. You come back to where you started and the sky would be the same. Yeah totally. Yeah. Is it this episode that we see the dream is that where we come. Yeah yeah we get a glimpse of the dream he kind of grabs a staff under the stars and we kind of see. I didn't freeze frame any of this so I'm sure there's some Easter eggs here. Yeah I haven't verified but like so there's there's massive discourse on whether this is a blue wizard or is a Gandalf. There have been so many things that make us think it's Gandalf especially like the moths and the big fight from the end of season one and then this one if I remember correctly one of the staffs in his dream was Gandalf staff. Or at least it looked very much like it because it kind of like warbled a little bit. It's it would be in my opinion. I think it would be cool you know if it's Gandalf but at the same time it doesn't fit within the lore that this is Gandalf because it doesn't even come in until the third age. I think there's a brief mention of two blue wizards that there's not much that Tolkien talks about them they just kind of show up so I think it would be, I think, and I really hope that this is a blue wizard. I was that way all through season one I really want it to be a blue wizard. They are heavily indicating that it's Gandalf I don't know if that's misdirection or because there's the things you mentioned there's also the when in doubt follow your nose. The star formation and a certain alphabet could be a G rune stands or you know leons against something is like that looks like it could have been Ian McCallen. I wouldn't put it past them to be doing a little misdirection here I mean just based on season one with the Halbrad Sauron and get the wizard. There's been a lot of visual like plays right where you're like, what are you going, what are you, it was all very much. One of us due to another was, oh it's definitely Sauron too, oh actually not BSR. Yeah, and to be fair they had me I mean I wasn't sure until near the end you know and but you know the stranger tries to do the pop or nor he asked him they were hungry, make some food he explodes a tree, still can't control his power. But yeah we got some snails nor he's happy. And then Poppy shows up because they're lost. That was so cute because everybody needs a Sam. Poppy is their Sam. Totally, yeah. I also thought credit hilarious to you because my husband pointed out they're starving and whatever aren't those like acorns or something like in their hair. Like aren't those like completely edit, like you can't eat your decorations. And I'm like well first of all it's like a shell it's like dried out so I can't eat it and the more I watch where I was like eating my own word. Literally my wife said the same thing she says just eat some of those olives in your hair. Yeah, that'd be fine. And it hasn't come to that yet guys. Okay, they're not bad. It was a cool like also another misdirection because we think that they're capturing the person in the mask but it ends up being Poppy. I was like oh that means they don't know who's actually following them. There's another subtle signal for Gandalf in that scene. I believe it's that scene too when Nori makes a comment. Perhaps you just need a gun like before. And if you know about the origin of the name Gandalf it's Old English that means one dale for staff elf and the retcon for that explanation is at some point men of humans thought that he was some sort of elf because of all the magic and things and called him the elf of those staff. Or Gandalf. So I don't know this is another thing that makes me really feel like if it's misdirection it's really. It's really well done it is. They really want us to think this is Gandalf. They really do. That's cool. But here's the thing like as someone who is not familiar with any of that stuff. To me it doesn't feel like they're laying it on that thick. Like I feel like it's like it could be just another wizard. So I like how you guys are sort of like yeah no. They're fucking laying there. They got the runway lights lit. It's Gandalf. It's like and I'm over here like I don't know man it could be this guy over here. Yeah. Which is great. And then with a little bit of daisy smocking a puppy also shows up with a map with a song that gets them out of their weirdly. Look if we. Which is also the most token thing that's happened in the show in a long time. We really want to get serious about it. No I'm all in. Listen I'm all in. It was so it was like so like. Was this a map of the shire on the bike? So I'm going to get I'm so into this. It's just a map of the shire here. Yeah so there's a map of the shire and there's one over here. Oh wow. So it actually it came with. Yeah it came with my one ring RPG starter set. Oh that's cool. It was really cool. I was like I'm using this as a prop. Yeah. No but I listen I like I make I'm making fun of it because it's like completely like a plot. Yeah it's cool. But it's so cool. Like it feels so token. Like it felt like that moment I was like I'm reading Lord of the Rings right now. Like there's a song and the songs going to help them. Right. Like I'm like okay. Perfect. Like you can explain this like even in more detail because that is what told you feels is most important to explaining a culture is songs and poetry. That's why there's so many. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah it's it is very talking that they're that and when it's the song that we've seen them seen before from season one and so we know it's a part of their culture and part of their story. Yeah. Yeah. And it was cool and and and and I like all the call the call back to the hardfoots and they talk about like we've traveled this lands before. It's very cool. Like there was there's a lot of. This is the subtleness that I like about the show that it's doing now that's it's there's a lot of world building being done but it's not laying it on so thick that it's confusing or you're not sure it's just subtle it's little things right so a really nice. Yeah. Yes. So then we get into some more entry glad. Elrond seeks out the refuge with master is it cured and cured and cured on cured cured on played by Ben Daniels in the in the gray havens cured on advises or Elrond ask cured on for advice on what to do with the rings and cured on I guess believes Elrond that he thinks that they might be corrupt and yeah right before you kind of get this nice discussion and they hear horses coming and it's it's glad rail with the king. And cured on is off on a boat to get rid of the rings and the deepest darkest waters that in the land I guess I have an eye for continuity. And I hope I'm not the only one who noticed but there's a distinct difference between glad rails wigs from when she's on the horse getting ready to go into where you know Elrond and cured on is. And when she's in there it's less curly and a little shorter and then suddenly it's less curly but a lot. And I was I had to go watch it twice I was like see do you see that do you see that. You'd be a good you'd be what do you think you did not know the script advisor. I really should I wanted to do that that would be so cool but Chris. Oh no go ahead. I would say you think maybe one of those was her horse riding wigs the one that was short. It probably was the one that was earlier. Yeah. And it's cool that her hair is cool that's very reminiscent. There's a lot of history with glad rails hair. There really is. That is a loaded thing to say what does that mean. What does that mean. We could talk a lot about this and you can just edit it out if you want to. Is that what is that why what's his name asked for a lock of her hair. So it's related to that. Yeah. So so in the gift giving simply yeah you know what happens is a gimley. He'd be very careful the way that Tolkien words this and how that scene goes. He doesn't want to ask because he realizes how improper and evolve this is. And she commands him to tell to tell me and he said it's a name your request and he asks for the hair and everyone around is like gasping like Han and later we find out that way way back in the when everybody lived with the Valar. And the first age there was this guy named thing or he was a cousin by the way and he was obsessed with her hair and they said at that time that her hair caught the light of the two trees and he asked her three different times for a strain of her hair and she told him no every time. And so everybody standing around there would have known that and thought about that and then he ends up giving it to the dwarf that's an outsider here. And so it's like this. Anyway, yeah, it's really beautiful especially learning the details of like, because in the movies they don't explain how long that gimley and you know the whole party are there there for a hot minute. And so that's when Legolas and Gimley bond his friends and she sees hit she sees Gimley eventually is like. You actually are like a really good your great dwarf your great person. And it and it makes that even heavier with the hair. But I did want to ask you Chris. Can you explain to us a little bit more about cure done. So cure done is one of the oldest elves he when that when all the elves first came into being they they all just sort of woke up by this lake. And he probably was born there. And this was so long ago that it loses any meaning for us to think about it. And then he did some things in the first stage that don't that aren't really that don't really tie into this one thing he is a ship right obviously his name means ship rights and they've not really cured on it's no way. I think I think one of the things if you ever try to read the so early and you have to get used to is everything has more than one name and there are lots and lots and lots of names it's very confusing. And then I'm going to I'm back I'm right here. So cure done basically is a ship rights that's what you need to know he he famously created the ship that they are in deal the Mariners sale to the West to beg for help from the valor. And the air into by the way is the father of Elrond and air and Elwing the parents of Elrond and Elro's by the way are forever sailing in the sky with one of the summer reels and it's like what it's that's the myth of the evening star. So that's the last several that people have available and glad rail references that and the light inside the file that she gives a photo it's the light of that star from the summer ill from the trees from way back when we'll cure on maybe the ship that it's selling them up there. So far as his character goes he was known as being the most insightful and forward seeing. Maybe because it's just he's age and experience in in the cannon when the wizards are first arriving in the middle earth he recognizes that Gandalf is the greatest of the five and at that moment gives him his ring. And I think the, the, the ring of fire that's cured on has he secretly gives to Gandalf saying that I perceive that your job here is more important and you can use this to kindle the hearts of people to fight against evil. And so then and that's you don't see it at the end of the films Gandalf reveals he's wearing the ring but it doesn't really explain anything about what's going really so the whole time Gandalf is wearing one of the rings of power. Yeah, it's fascinating because, because it's been known to like the manipulates the wrong word but also it's like also protects you from manipulation and some of these other things that kind of like places of protection upon him so he felt it was important for Gandalf to have that. Yeah, I mean if you think about the different the differences between the specifically the three versus the seven and the nine and the one is that and they mentioned this to that it is significant that Sauron never actually touched them he didn't have a hand in their actual creation or did create them with lore that he learned from Sauron, so they still are bound to the one to the one but they work in a different way and they don't work in the same way as they don't give you power for dominion over people and strengthen arms because that's not what the elves want what they want is to preserve things as they were to keep the elf them from fading away and so that's why they were they were used to establish these realms in the Grey Havens and Laurie and and Rivendell and it gives those places their magic so to speak. So that's really what those rings are all about, the wizards when they arrive to have a mandate to help people resist evil without becoming lords of those people themselves it's precisely why they were given the bodies of old men with all the hurts and pains and needs of an old body to keep to remind them to be humble. Kierdon recognizes this in Gandalf recognizes that he's the most suited of the five to do this and gives him the ring to that end. That's cool. Kierdon is one of my favorites. Yeah, it was cool to see a depiction of he is in the Peter Jackson movies very briefly in the prologue when they say you see the three elves with the rings he's one of those three. Oh, okay. Well, and they kind of well we'll get to that in a second. So the the elves thinking they they lost the rings they gather in London to kind of like say farewell yeah under the tree. And they're going to go back to Valinor right they kind of all said like yeah you know what we lost you know we're the trees dying. And then we cut to seared on and he's holding the rings about to drop them into the the ocean and he does something happens like a rejected. Is that what happened like it feels like that's what I interpreted as like it's like a like a fish giant fish bumped his boat and he kind of like threw the rings for I couldn't like it. Was it true because he never actually dropped them they just like something he went to drop it something happened and they fell into the boat and to me felt like almost like, because he goes to you know the basically the crack in the world you know this darkest depth. It doesn't to me it felt like it doesn't want the rings there they're they're they're adventure is not over and so kind of like brings it back to vote. I was very interested. I can't help but think of a Ullmo the Valar Ullmo who is sort of like Neptune who often shows up and interferes in this kind of way. Not to say that it's not to say that that's what it is but I can't but think of it like Ullmo saying no you don't not yet there's there's a lot of good in these rings that still need to happen. That's a good point. See I kind of read it that's it's a really cool way to look at it because I read it as like something happened like you know like the boat just shook the rings drop and he got he sees the rings and kind of like the one ring has its allure and its power to corrupt these rings also sort of in a way corrupt his ability to do the right thing here. Right like you know what I'm saying because the moment he sees him like he was going to do it by having not seen them the moment he sees their beauty and their their power right he senses that power he and he puts the ring on obviously and he can feel that power. He changes his mind right so there's a I thought of it as more like corruption and but I like your spin on it that there's I think that you're viewing it that's a completely valid reading. He sees it. It is indeed yes yes it is. But well strictly according to the Lord they these the three don't have such a corrupting type of influence. There's a legit worry that they are connected to Sauron in some way because they are right but. I think that Sauron had his hand and can fully manipulate them. He is able to fully will not fully but like manipulated. Glad you know just by talking with her and creating that relationship. So she feels that kind of pull within that but not for the others. It was you like like Chris mentioned it was used with the methods that Sauron gave Celebrimbor but not by his direct hand whereas the other ones. Where yes true. Yeah and it's it works to create tension for the show because if we just go for the books they don't even know that it's a not far is Sauron at this point. And they and when they the way they find that out is the wares of the three at the moment when the one ring is finished and Sauron first puts it on his finger they can hear in their minds the ring verse. And then they know that it's that Sauron behind it and they immediately take all the rings off and they're pissed. So that said that maybe isn't as satisfying in a TV show to watch them unfold that way and the timeline is compressed anyway but it's true true enough to create the tension of the idea that these rings could be used for good but ultimately were created tied to something that's evil. Right. So the Kiernan arrives back at in London wearing the third wearing the ring and hands the other two rings to Gil Gallad and Gil Gallad puts his on and then the other the other ring falls and to glad you're out. I also want to point out like right before that with Gil Gallad singing I was in tears I'm going to start thinking about it. When whenever the dwarfs or the elves like you said my nose started working so thinking about it whenever they start singing because that's how the world was created was through song and through that type of sound. And so being able to not only here like when you read the books and you know like their songs and other things. It's it doesn't quite have the same impact as a professional singer or somebody with that kind of elevated voice. So hearing it in its intended pronunciation and language and with an elven elven voice. It brought a whole new level to it as well as the elves in the background for so incredibly diverse. It was amazing. It was beautiful seeing all of the elves and races being able to just like the big fuck you to the haters elves are diverse they come in every color. And to show it like that. Oh my gosh it made my heart so happy I just started even crying even more I was like I've got a pause for a second because I was like, I can't I can't read the subtitles anymore. Yeah, it was really wonderful. Yeah, it's wonderful. They've done a good job with the music and the songs I think they all feel right. And and still tied to what the films to feels tied to that. It does yeah. Which is nice so they put on their three rings and they do the whole like a captain planet. You know, unite powers right put their hands together. It's just great and it's a reference to the Peter Jackson this is the same shot with the three hands. Yeah, I caught that too but I laugh at that. Because it's just kind of a silly thing to do right you know at the yeah you're like, I mean, I mean, but you're going to do it like if someone gave me like in my three friends rings we're going to put them together like that I mean it's going to happen. I mean I'm sorry. It's kind of dumb but like you give me rings of power I'm going to see if I, yeah, it is you know like that's fist bump that shit. Exactly, exactly. And the tree comes back to life, the everything glows, there's glowiness, lots of lots of glows, lots of sunlight. And instantly the tree is revived. I kind of so I need help here. Why, why this tree. Why do I care and why did the tree instantly be healed by these three rings, because I'm not sure that the show explains like why these rings like why how did. How did he create these rings that have the power to heal the tree that could then heal the veil that they else the power, the, I don't know, help me out here. Yeah, that's actually a question I had to so crispy of any insight on this. Oh, this was me okay. Yeah, so don't really know much about this particular one. Yeah, there. So, as far as the, the lore actually goes, there's, there's no tree that's dying that is like a thermometer for how healthy the elf population is or anything like that. So, but there. Yeah, but with that, with that understanding, I think you can just take the things that the show, whatever it shows you and extrapolate from there. Okay. So, if you remember, in season one, there's a story in the apocryphal legend about the elf warrior that fights the bowrog up over the tree, where the lead from which grew it grew from the last so more real. And then the big cataclysm caused the real light of the so we're able to go down into the material L rung says to stories bullshit, but you know, whatever. Which I was in that moment like, yeah, that's my man. Yeah, I know this story is bullshit. Yes. But then they show. But then they show a shot at some later episode of season one with the chunk of me throw land next to the rotten leaf and it heals so they're showing you know this. This happened this, this, this can heal right. Taking that and then if you go back to the books and what I said a few minutes ago about what the elf rings do, how they preserve the elf realms and they keep things from fading away and keep things like the culture basically from dying. And buying that with the this tree is a symbol of the elves time and middle earth fading away, then sure, me through all given that in within the show is connected to the similar else which is connected to the light of the two trees, which is the same light that's in the file of Galadriel and all of this then yeah it's sort of saying that this is a way that we can use a power to bring back the light of the gods and reinvigorate the life of the elves. Okay, in a very symbolic sort of way. So it takes that kind of open interpretation that there's not much we're given about the second age so we're going to take this little bit we have and make it grander. Okay, that makes that makes sense. And why, and the reason myth real is the thing right and we'll get to this later while it's part of the rings that all the rings I guess. It's because it has the power of the other the valinor inside of it or or essence of of within within the context of the show. Yes, that. The Silmarils. Yes, just, just like a brief history there was a time before there was even the center of the moon and all the light in the world came from these two trees. And these trees you can think of as basically like holy trees they were they were created by this one. Vala named Yavana and they were hallowed and they would wax and weigh in and bloom sort of like the sun and the moon every day and it was the most celebrated thing. And then Thainor was able to capture their life in these three jewels that were the Silmarils. So this is actually holy kind of divine light and power that you that they're saying is in the myth rule is infused with this if the tree came from the Silmaril. So yeah, there's it goes back to a divine origin in that way. Is there any case that this the tree that's dying is a tree of from one of those trees like a seed planted there. No, I don't think so. I think it just happened to be like. I just, why is that tree tied to the elves elves. We just don't know they could they could make it that because because yeah so they're we do know. And the in the in the bitter end when because you know spoiler more golf with the big giant spider destroys the trees and sucks all the light out of them so now the only place that the light exists the light from those trees exists is in the Silmarils. But it did bear fruit, which was used to make the Sun, but a fruit before that was given to the Mariners of Toloresia, which is the easternmost island of Balenor. That you could even see from Newman or it was said on a clear day if you picked good eyes and at that time elves would come visit and back and forth and that's one of the reasons why Newman or is so grand and populous because in their history they were taught by elves and had great friendship. And the white tree that grows in Newman or did come from a sea of the tree from Toloresia, which came from the sea to the seat of one of those trees. Totally forgot about that. And then later that tree, it gives the seed that the white tree of Gondor and the return to. Right. So in given that we do have that kind of establishment, sure, they could say that like that one was a seat of Telparia and we have this seat of Lowerland, the other tree, the gold tree. And not the same that will. There's anything to indicate that so far, but. Sure. I mean, that could be. I mean, why not? I mean, I just don't understand why the tree would have been healed and as well. Like it just, I need some context. I don't know if the show did a good job of explaining that other than just saying other than saying. They're leaving a little bit of a mystery here. The tree, they're showing you that there is a tree. Right. It's there's, it's the same thing as when you go into the hospital and you see the heart monitor and everybody knows what that means. It's, but we have the, this tree shaped heart monitor for the culture of the L's in this show and. That's interesting, but that does give a good correlation as to what the tree could be. And so it is such a bright gold. Yeah. Yeah. We do see the trees in the very beginning of season one. And that was one of the most beautiful visuals on television I have ever seen. I was thrilled. I remember when this promo image of those two trees came out and drew, put it, you put it on your Twitter and I went nuts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which I'm happy to see that the estate has been at least somewhat forgiving of material that's not strictly in the Lord of the Rings. Because he does it's that's a very first stage moment that you're seeing. They got very little permission to do anything from the first stage. Very little permission. Well, the episode wraps up with the tree being healed. The L's are saved. Elrond leaves kind of like kind of huffed and puffed. He's like not happy about it. But it is what it is. And, and, and Aragon. So Elrond learns and hell brand shows up and they, that kind of ends on the cliffhanger and hell brands like hey, let me in. And then that's that's episode one. And man, that's a big episode lot happened. Let's just jump right into. We got two more episodes guys. We're gonna we're gonna plow. Let's let's plow through these. Yeah. I've got my notes. So two finally back at cause of doom, we're finally back during and Disa are stripped of the royal titles and and they're living the the common life right. Yes, they're hanging out in the marketplace and Disa senses something in the mouth. She's a stone singer, so she communicates with the mountain and can basically communicate it to her. Something's happening. Yeah, she's the most sensitive to yeah. Yeah, she feels the earthquake coming before it comes in then boom, make mega earthquake. And I think there's a little prelude to this like I think the opening scene shows the the volcano. And then you see like tendrils like going towards cause of doom right like you kind of see like the opening titles kind of since or there's the map kind of shows that right like there's like the evil is underground coming for you right. It's not necessarily earthquakey but it's an earthquake right there's a little bit of a that's the physical definition right but but there's an infection right. And the and what's actually really cool scene too they kind of show how they bring light into the into cause of doom right so you see the mirrors and you follow the mirrors through. And that was really really cool. Super cool actually love seeing cause of doom and it's like the height of its power. Yes, like that was the thing I was looking forward to the most was cause of doom, and then seeing like the lights reflecting and having them being able to grow crops through the lights. Yeah, it brought up to other thoughts while I was thinking about it they use that light system as well. Yeah, the balance tune, you know, the chamber of mozzarella this isn't fellowship. Yes, and that's when they like that's another use of it. But what's really cool too is the, it was brought up as well. On the interwebs that the the additional entrance that Elrond goes through is the entrance that is going to be the door speak friend and enter melon. And there's actually a very blink and you miss it moment in the opening like credit visuals where you can see the beginnings of the artwork of the door. And the sand. Yeah, that's cool. That's, that's what's done. There's some really cool things that are now in that that could be like a whole like side episode in itself. But yeah, there's some really good articles that break that down because there's some really cool things that showed up. I'm just going to go watch it carefully. Yeah, I know. It's really cool. That's what I did. Cause the dooms in trouble, they can't grow crops. And during, he's too stubborn to go speak to his father and kind of heal things between them. But I really like that the during, during is probably one of my favorite creatures in the show. Glad to see him finally here in episode two. And then Diesel were the best part and I cannot be the only one who when they did the first episode and they had the summary of what happened in season one was so confused because I was like, where are the dwarves? Where are the dwarves? Why aren't we talking about the dwarves? They were the best part. They were the standout of season one. And then when it got to season two, I was like, Oh, okay, you know what, we're cool. We're just doing it. We're doing a summary for each, each storyline. Okay. We're cool. We can keep going. Yeah, there's, it's interesting how this season's gone because there's even a character. There's even characters that you go through a whole season episode two that haven't shown up yet until you get to episode three. Oh, there they are. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, Oh, yeah, I forgot about those guys. Yeah. So we'll get to. I felt this season one was the same way is I would get really invested in a character story and the episode would end and he would start with a new with the now here's what's going on with these other characters. Like a whole by the end of the episode. You're just as invested with them too. Yeah. The stuff around here was. Yeah. So we're back in London, glad you're else planting seeds out of brothers grave and has a she's got the dark vision problems man. She's getting the rings got her going buggy eyed. And she's, she's, she sees a really cool, actually really cool vision of a caliber and more being killed by vines. It's actually pretty gnarly. And the way he starts. Sorry, I cut you off. I was just, I was just like watching it. I was like, Oh, oh, oh shit. You know, like, that's, that's, that's gnarly. Like, that's some pretty cool stuff. And like in black speech, as well as talking about like the very, like first string of the rings. Yeah, the rings, the, I'm like, oh, yeah, a lot of four significant that it was in black speech. Yes, I'm glad you come. That's a really cool being able to see the edition of languages. And being able to hear more black speech has been really cool because you don't really hear it at all during the trilogy because it's like, I won't speak that language here. Right. And it was, it's nice being able to like hear it. Yeah. And she, she sees all this and kind of realizes that Saran's probably with, or at least with color more. And she sort of, and she wakes up from this dream in the middle of like a strategy meeting. Yeah. Being in like that, that council. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Yeah. You're not paying attention over there. You're daydreaming. What do you think we should do? And she's like, yeah, yeah, send the boats. I don't really give a shit. And then they have go, go, go, go, go, go, I'll have like a little one off and they both like revealed that they're having these visions. He reveals that he's seen like destruction as well. And, and glad you're all request that, you know, he, she be sent to, to go find. And see if Saran's there. And the only way he will let that happen is if, because he believes she's corrupted by him, she won't let him her go alone. So he says you got to go with somebody that I can trust. And it kind of leaves it on, on edge. And we go to unless you guys have anything to add. I noticed it more season, or not season one, episode one, but watching more into episode two. There's been a problem in the film industry in regards to wigs, a very big problem. And they have all the characters have phenomenal wigs, like even like, like just everybody. I was watching so carefully, like, like how nice, like they look like they're lace front wigs. They look like actual hair and not like, you know, Thor, love and thunder with James weird, big Bob, like these were actual wigs, because those types of things can really pull you out of like feeling immersed in a show. And I think, I think that that's a, I think that's a generational notice because like me and Chris are probably like, we're used to watching like B movie in the 80s fantasy. We're used to like cone in the barbarian. So like we're like, we're cool with whatever. Right, like it doesn't matter like the wigs. We're not looking at the wigs. That's too funny. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. You mentioned this. I was a page hadn't seen these yet and, and we were watching the two and three last night and she, he basically says, everybody's wig is great except for Caleb Bremborse is awful. I don't know. I really like his. It's just, I think it's because it's so perfect. Yeah, I can throw people off. But to me, I'm like, that's the hairstyle. I desire to have above all others. I want that. Like, just the brand of piece of hair that would fall into slightly unhinged. Yeah. Caleb Bremborse looks like he belongs in like a Hunger Games in episode. Oh my gosh. Oh no. So, Caleb Bremborse, he refuses let Sauron or Hal Brandon, he sends him away, but Sauron insists he's playing the long game here. He knows he's going to wait him out. But here's what I don't know. We do see that the elven messengers that Gil Gilly had sent that says like, hey, Caleb Bremborse, Hal brand, Hal brand bad equals Sauron. Don't do, don't be there. Yo, yo, don't, don't, don't let him in the doors. Yo, like he's, he's not good anymore. No more. Right. And there's like that nice, there's a nice shot close up of the like, like really cool container that they put the thing in, which I want one of those, by the way, it looks really cool. And then there's a nice shot of those elves being dragged away by chains and then the, the, the, the case there being broken and lost forever. But I don't know how Hal brand knows. Who killed them? Yeah. Yes. Sauron clearly has, he's not working alone entirely. He didn't have his orc army. He's got somebody, doesn't he? No. Right. That's, that's where I'm like. It's pretty caught up on, on just about everything. And we'll get to that later. He kind of knows a lot of what's going on, which is kind of interesting. And who are these, who are these Easterling people that are with this dark wizard, then these three acolytes that seem to be really keen on them. So on coming back. Yeah. Maybe, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get to that. So we get to the desert, the stranger, Nori and Poppy are pursued by mask figures, and that are serving this dark wizard until we come to find out the dark wizard. We get a scene. A really cool scene, a lengthy scene, actually of a lady cutting, slitting her wrists, dripping blood on the floor, and then like these little bones of the hands. And that drives me insane. That is like one of my biggest rights. It's so painful. And then like, then you're useless afterwards. Yeah. Like, come on, you've got other bright with you. Like always think this. Yes. Yes. It's so dumb. It's like dumb. It's the dumbest thing. Oh shit. We fought for Solomon. Well, not now you're not. I can't even. I can't hold a sword or jerk off. What am I supposed to do now? What are you going to do now? Jesus. I love the moss. Moss are my favorite animal and being able to see them so heavily. They are. They are. They're so underrated. And they are gorgeous. Yeah. There are lots of beautiful moss. They're also pretty stupid because they fly into light. Because we keep leaving bright lights out for them. Well, there's a bunch of moss and they collect under these pools of blood that this lady let her hands be slit and they go away and then the moss fly around for a bit and then like become one of the messengers that was killed from before fighting the stranger. And she says, I got my ass kicked and he's like, I should have sent somebody else. You suck. And I don't know. We get a sense. So there's like this new dark wizard in this cool desert pyramid place. The visualization of his character is very reminiscent of Saruman. Yeah. Like this guy is Saruman coded. As much as the strangers Gandalf. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, there's like this has to be rage bait because they must know how much that would piss people off to have those two actually be that because I don't remember fully the like full history of Saruman, but I don't think he ever started evil like that. So part of the whole point of his character arc is that he falls from grace. Yeah. Yeah. That would not make sense at all. So I desperately hope along with that it's not Gandalf. That these are just I would be happy that these are just both the blue wizards. That would be great. That would be what it should be. I mean, one of the only things that was said about them is that they went into the east and south to and probably started magic cults that enter to this day. Yes. They ultimately both were fit. They failed with all of the wizards except for Gandalf in some way failed. Because he's very clearly started a cult with the eye that is pretty dang close to what's gonna be. But yeah, that was that was a really cool instance. I really liked that. Yeah, it was like, it was cool, but also sort of like, I need more here. Like, I don't like there's just so little so little being given here that I don't know why I need it even. Even in the show yet. So I don't know because you because you're supposed to be asking the question. Yeah, is this song. Who is this? That's. It's the mystery of the season. Right. Yeah, you're right. Right. And like, like we don't need enough issues. We already don't know who the stranger is in our wizard. So you're sort of like, Okay, now I have two unknown wizards. Yeah, Jesus. And we're gonna we're gonna hint just as heavily as one is these are these the wizards you know. But I did think that that was cool that they did bring them back because that was one of the biggest questions I had from season one was, who the hell are these people? Mm hmm. I really wanted to know because they are fascinating. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I do like the the art direction here, like the their soldiers that wear like these really cool gold masks like skull kind of mastery on their flesh. Like, what does that mean? I want to see it. Yeah. Yeah. So it's visually like from an art direction looks very cool. Not sure what's going on. So we, one of them, one of his, I'm not even sure like soldiers, I guess I'm just going to call him says like I'm going to go after the halflings. That'll be the way we get we capture him. And then the stranger and Norrie and probably make a dangerous decision to avoid pursuit by going into the deep, deep desert, not the desert desert but the desert desert desert. And before we go into that I kind of want to circle back to when we were talking about names before. Yeah. The stranger says he says, don't you see no one can give you a name. It's yours already. I'm watching it as it's going. It is who you are. And when you hear it spoken, you're, you feel your heart glow. And Gandalf goes by many names, not that this we're calling this Gandalf but Gandalf goes by many names, mainly depending on where he's from, or where he's been kind of it's given that Blakely says kind of like the area given a different name. Yeah. And it was, I actually started to like get really emotional over that because people here on couch soup or you know amongst the Internet mostly had known me as Erica. And I had recently over the past year changed my name to Anduin, which is very similar to the River Anduin from Florida the Rings. And I felt exactly that when I saw the River Anduin on this map, I was in my basement apartment looking at this map on my wall going This is, this is so cool. I'm just reading things. I see the River Anduin. And I'm like, that would be a really beautiful name, but like if I were to use that, like somehow I'd have to like change the spelling and I came up with Anduin and I felt elated and just happy. It became who I am. And if, and that just made that whole quote feels so much more important. That's being able to connect to a name in that way. And knowing when it's spoken is like, it does, it makes your heart glow is so cool. That's cool. That's a, that's an awesome story about your name. And I love, I love hearing that. And it's also going to tie in. I think a lot with what we're going to say or you alluded to this earlier. But yeah, talking would often start start with a name. And he would he would say he doesn't know who the person is. He says, just give give me a name and I'll go from there. Yeah. And, well, I don't want to say something about Bombadil, but let's just say that for when he's sharing. Oh, yeah, at the point. In regards to names as well, one of the cool little bits of Easter eggs is one of the names that she tries to give him is Farikar, or Fredegar, Fredegar, Fadi Bulger. In the original trilogy, he is the fifth hobbit, the one that chooses to not go on an adventure with them. And I was cracking up laughing, but he's like, you know what you're doing? Yeah, I live for those little moments. There's one we missed over where he uses the rings to kind of trash about Rummel and Diron. And I'm like, oh, there's a name in these guys. This is so good. So good. That's awesome. Yeah, now they're going to go to the desert and have a time. Yeah, yeah, they're going to do something in the desert. We'll get to that in a second. We're back at back at Kazadum. They're, we're getting a little bit of the politics and what the shortage of food shortages is doing. They can't grow food everybody's in like dire needs. And because of there's no light, Disa suggests finding a new path for sunshafts, and she and two other sisters, I guess we can call them, sing a song. Right before that is one of my favorite things that's been in the show is they show all these people going into, you know, want to talk to the king. And one of the biggest complaints of people have been where the dwarven women were. Dwarven women with beards. And if you just, and I saw people who like, I'm not watching season two, you know, fuck this, you know, they're just, what about the women with beards and stuff and I'm like, well, have you watched this scene in particular. Because as you're going down and you can see the people just lining the sides of the walls, are these stunning women with goatees and like fuller beards, and like, exactly what they would have been described as. And that was, donning to watch, because they were beautiful, like, like, do you say, or do you say, do you say, also has like a little bit of a beer, but you can't always. Yeah, you can't always see it because it's also a really great contour, but also like, shading and stuff like I see why they wouldn't do it in like a, like, main character women beauty thing which is stupid. But being able to see more of the dwarf just like out and about and having lovely beards. They listened to us that we wanted the women dwarves with beards, and I was very, very happy about that. You got, you got your bearded women. Little hairy women. But here they, it feels more like epic. I don't know, they're like, I guess the three of them and then singing from the perch, and then, like, it's almost like you're following the soundways to the camera kind of moves, it's like a, like a, and all the way up to the, the one little crack in the ceiling and it crumbles. And, and nothing. That was heartbreaking. And the king says this is the first time ever that they failed. You know, now we must dig. And so they're trying to dig for some like. Oh, the foreshadowing in that to the full fall of Kazudum. Stunning because we know there's a bow rock down there. Well, yeah, which makes me, I guess on my mind, I'm like trying to think logically, and maybe I shouldn't because it's, it's a fantasy show, right? But I'm like, well, you know where the light could come from, it just collapsed, like just go dig, dig there. Or like, why dig down for light, you dig out up and out, right? Like, I guess I'm a little like, I don't know why this is so hard, like, I'm just a little. But both, I think partially to it would, it causes a risk, especially because the light shafts were higher up in the mountains. So if they were to re dig again, it might potentially cause a collapse inwards. So I think with them, they're thinking, dig down through and up to see what they can do, or at least diagonal wise for like structural integrity. Yeah, maybe, but they're going to end up digging down any ways because of the greed from myth for the, yeah, well, yeah, I get the myth real like having a good, but yeah, they kind of hinted at interesting to you about the first season as well. Yeah, teased. Prince Duren is kind of having the lower class problems he's getting mocked by minors, but having calluses and, you know, and he's kind of bringing it home but but but keeping it, keeping it close to his chest. And the king Duren is kind of, and these also have a little one on one about Prince. King Duren, and about about his son, and if they're going to come to terms and the king basically says, well, I'm hard headed. I'm stubborn. Yeah, that's kind of what makes me me makes me the king. To me, this was one of the most touching moments in lessons in this episode or is that this idea that, or went easy even says it. He says, I wasn't wrong, she said, no, you weren't wrong, but you're wrong now. And meaning this refusal to forgive this stuff, the holding on to this grudge as if it's going to, as if it can hurt the other person when really it kind of just is poison for yourself is such a life lesson that. I mean, to person took me a while to learn to learn to learn to learn that and good to see that in a show resonates with me. It's true. That was a really good call out and like the the relationship between Drisa and Duren is one of the best representations of a long term relationship with deep love and care that that is so rare to see. And it's very clear why they are the favorites and the standouts adore them. Yeah. So we head back to Linden. Gladriel seeks Elrond's help. Elrond says, nah, not going to not going to do it. You're kind of not my thing anymore. I'm going to. I'm not saying this boat. Elrond confronts Gladriel about her acceptability to Sauron. She sort of says, yeah, you're right. I'm I'm at fault, which is, you know, big on her, good for her. But I want, well, I think what's important about this is Elrond goes to Kiriton and he kind of goes to advice and Kiriton gives him kind of like another life lesson. You know, we're, we're getting a lot of life lessons on this. And Kiriton kind of says like, Hey, would you fault, you know, the maker of the rings for the beauty of what the rings can do? Right? You know, it's like, it's whoever wields the rings, like, know that your friends are the ones wearing them and they're going to do good with the, with the power that they have and shows him how the fish react to the to the ring and it's pretty interesting. I don't know. Do you guys have any thoughts on this? Hi, I really appreciated the, like the nuance, but behind the intention of it to be able to say that there's no one right way to use the rings or view the rings. I said, in regards to, you know, episode one, where you said, you know, everybody has a good point. And it's the same as it is here. They, they're both admitting and talking about things that are hard. But neither of them are wrong. There's, there's no wrong person in this situation, which is nice, because it's like, we can love both these characters. They both have flaws. They both have positive things about them, but they are not characters to be. This is, this person is clearly in the wrong because they're not. Yeah. This is the scene I mentioned earlier where they made name drop a room mill and dire on, which is a huge thing for lower nerds. But yeah, I know it's essentially the argument is, can you, can you, can you find fault in the work because the author had personal character philosophy, which works to some degree if you're talking about. What did he say, room mill was a drunkard and die run was insufferable. Yeah. Yeah, well, that compared to Sauron. So, yeah, which goes back to what you're saying on to one is that there's nobody that's in exactly the wrong here. There's a point on both sides. Yeah, it's good. So this, this way is all run. And we, we will see how he reacts in, in to not abandon glad you're on a quest in a little bit. But we go to room where the stranger and everybody kind of collapses from exhaustion first poppy and nori collapse the stranger drags them, then the stranger collapses and poppy nori drag drag him as they find a little well that may have water. And this is, this is such a crazy scene. So, there's a, there's a bell that nobody cares about. I was yelling at that. I was like, I was like, what if you can, you know, water poured in. That's fine. Yeah. The other one needs to take care of that. So the water buckets falling. She looks right at it and then just. Oh, well, nevermind. Yeah. So the water buckets falling back into the well and it's causing a ball to hit the top of the, the bell, which is making a giant lab. Obviously, which obviously is going to attract the bad guys, which it does. So the bad guys as designed as designed. So the bad guys show up for five of them. I forget on horseback. They look menacing. They don't say anything, which is strange. Like, hey, come with me or there's no demands. It's kind of like, okay, we're bad. We're here. You get it. Yeah, you get it. Yeah. Yeah. So, and they start the drill. They start. I don't know. I thought it was arrows at first, but they're like flinging something. Yeah. Is it arrows? I could. They looked like arrows when they landed, but you're right. They were just like flinging. Yeah. It was like, they're like, it looked like, well, it wasn't quite sure I need to watch it again, but they're like, they're throwing some sort of projectile. The stranger's just standing there. He's got, I got, he's like, I found my stuff. I found some staff on the ground. He thinks it's his staff, and he's like, all right, I got this. And he does some wizard wizardy shit and causes a big tornado, a sand tornado that takes out the bad guys, but the tornado is out of control. And it gets too big. Noria and Poppy gets sucked away into the tornado and the staff disintegrates. And the stranger is, does that? No, that was sad. Pretty sad. But also, the scene was like, like, kind of ridiculous. I don't know. I kind of had a problem. Little silly for me. I don't know. It just, it all felt like a calamity of errors, right? You know, like, could anything go right at this moment in time? Well, and that's what's going to bring him to really seek help from Tom Bombadil when we get there is the fact that he's consistently losing control in such aggressive ways. So the trailer was like, can you help teach me? These are the whole, the stranger and Poppy is a Nori. I love Nori. I love those characters, but these were in this season so far have been my most eye rolling moments when I'm watching the thing and thinking, okay, yes, wizard, wizard can't control power, wizard needs staff. I guess we get it. I guess he's a better stick. Yeah, I can see that. And I guess I'll, some of that side in with my irritation that they're so heavily implying that this is Gandalf and I'm just, I'm kind of resigned to it. Yeah, it's kind of like hope for the best plan for the worst. I still sort of hope that it's going to be a blue wizard, but I don't know. Maybe, maybe that's what it is. And then I think they're going to have like a more significant storyline coming up just from like the different visuals we're getting in the trailers. So I'm looking forward to watching them grow and do something different other than walking. And it feels like everything else is moving at breakneck speed, like the rings being made and, and like I feel like that storyline is moving very slowly, I guess, compared to everyone else's storyline. So I guess I just, the pacing of it is this is this matched I think is worth, which is really what I'm saying when I'm like, yes, okay, we get it. Yeah, right, right. Yes, and exactly. Yeah, so the, we were back to Calabimbor and Halbrand still waiting and his Calabimbor's assistant telling him to go away but she sees he's injured and you kind of think like she's going to be the one to break. But in fact it is Calabimbor. He comes and visits Halbrand and Halbrand gives them the doughy eyes and he's like, but you love me. Don't you? Don't you love we did good things together. Remember those good times, the pillow dock we had useless that umbrella was. Yes, he was soaked. I mean, and the servant gets none of it anyway. So, but yeah, it or possibly more the deal with would run off from the back. Yeah, that was ridiculous. No, I was thought the same thing. Ridiculous, but I kind of want one. I'm back in a line. I do too. I straight up want one. Brandon, my husband, he was like, we're into a decoration. Yeah. Yes, he sees it come through and he's like, what in the Star Wars is that? Nice. Nice. That tracks. That tracks. Yeah. So, Halbrand manipulates Calabimbor. He lets them in, you know, they're warming up by the fire and he does the whole like I'm not who you think I am. He kind of it's it's it's Halbrand doing his thing. It's like I'm going to tell you the truth, but the half truth of it all, but then make it seem like I'm the thing that you really wanted in your hearts of heart, right? And he reveals himself to be an entire load of gifts and proposes forging the rings. Oh, we got to talk about that for a second. The transformation to an entire was so cool. Yeah, because like the sudden like disappearance, the lights going out the like forged fire to starting to rage and just like burst. And the clouds like like this, this man is dramatic in every sense of the word lightning, the rain and the window, the window popping open. Yeah. Yes, when he's like, but it's like, he's like, so who are you? I can't talk about it. What are you talking about? And the visuals with the clouds was my favorite bit because not only did it look, you know, very, very God like, but the outside of the clouds were kind of red. That to me was one of the best visuals because it looks holy and beautiful, but there's something at the edges of all of this visual that is bleeding in. And of course, we equate red to, you know, danger, blood, evil, and that is kind of like leaking in that not everything that you are seeing is what it appears to be. And this is where the peak manipulation comes out, because he's like, I'm Anathar. And he's like the gift giver. Yes, that's exactly what I am. Because, because he let him fill in the blanks. This is what I think you are. And he's like, yep, that's exactly what I am then because that's what your heart desired. Sure. And I completely agree. This is sort of what I was referring to earlier when I mentioned how it works better for Sauron as a character. It works better that we know that he's Sauron now because you couldn't have this kind of moment with all these evil visuals. And he steps out of the damn furnace, read and blame. And he's this angelic, godly, red, cloud, fiery type figure. And the music, the sinister music swells in this moment too. And when he asks who he is, he just tells him another lie, a better, more different lie is what he wants to believe. But now we know, and we can see how this works. Do you know that Anathar just means Lord of Gifts? That's really says Lord of gifts. He's not just saying, oh, I've heard of these. That's me. And he's like, yep, that's exactly what I am. Oh, okay. I thought there was actually like a god, like a Lord of gifts. No, it just, it literally means Lord of gifts. By the way, the T-dubs, this is the moment in the second age when Sauron actually first reveals there's no hell brand character. It's this Anathar figure mysteriously appears tries to get a Gil Gala and Elrond and Caleb Rembor on board. And so it, I guess my point here being not. I like how brand a lot and perfectly fine with it, but this is kind of a wish fulfillment moment if you're into the lore that you get to see the Anathar version. The most beautiful elven version because I observed, you know, that known to be feared, and kind of think to especially like the orcs, or I guess they call them the orc at this point, because that's like their initial name. The way it gave a really cool name to shape shifter because putting how brand and anathar right next to each other, the way that they did that with like changing his eyebrow colors the clean shave and the blonde. It got a glow up. It completely changes the way he looks that you're like okay now I can see why you don't think that that's how brand. But it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was, it was, I was like at first I was like is that the same, it's the same guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's like so weird seeing him like Elvish now with the whole like, you know. But I think it's good that he does detect a parrot with the lie that oh I'm an emissary from Valinor so like I'm a godly messenger here to help you. But that can help explain in the, with film terms of why don't they recognize that it's the same guy well he tells them he just lies again. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, which is, yeah, I think it worked. I think it worked really well. You're dead on with the with the dramaticness of it. So dramatic. It kind of like, you know, really understand his powers and I guess we're learning as the show goes on like Sauron's like abilities, but I didn't know that he could like do that like manipulate things. Like fire and turn out like I guess it's all very powerful. Yeah, yeah, but you don't really understand like I guess I haven't really seen, you know, like I could see Gandalf doing like a, but he would have to do like a, like a voice or like a, like I've seen him do. Yeah, you know, yeah, well you can think of like as far as like the type of being Gandalf and Sauron are the same type of beings except perhaps that Sauron, it has less restrictions fewer restrictions on him and that he doesn't have this mandate that isn't in the body of an old man, at least at this point in the timeline he can shift into any kind of body. If I remember incorrectly wasn't, didn't Sauron also spend time as a cat. I'm pretty sure he also spent time as a cat. Yeah, so you're, you're talking about, you're talking about to Vildo, I think. I think that's what it is. Yeah. Yeah, so basically what happened is there was a different version of the Baron and Ruthian story where they were more got has this cat in a bunch of where cats. His name is to build a well in the published version, instead of the cat that becomes Sauron. Okay, this is a random thought. Yeah, that's no that's cool. I love the to build a version of the story. We wrap up the episode, glad you're, is told she'll be able to go to Aragon. Erigion. Erigion. Erigion. Erigion. Okay. But over on will lead the mission and this is a nice like, there's a great moment and she's like, oh yeah, and he doesn't even say anything he just kind of walks over and he's like, I'll chuff. Oh, that's the owner. Yeah. And then we get to see the repercussions of color Brembor and, and, and a tar doing the thing as they invite during and Disa to, to come and visit to get the rings. Yeah. And that's how that's the conclusion of episode two. Wow. Okay. Can we get through episode three? I don't know. Let's let's try it. All right. We got this. So episode three forging ahead. We jump right in a soldier. We get, we finally get a soldier. I forgot. I love a sealed door. I've been like completely blanked that he was part of the show. And the moment they showed him in the flashback, I was like, oh yeah. I am so excited because I have some really cool voice. And this, this, I guess it's a flashback right he's because we've kind of rewinded back to the beginning right after the Mordor becomes Mordor, right, the mountain explodes. And he's, we see a Lindial trying to his father, his father's father trying to break. So I'm like, I'm a soldier's horse and take it back to newborn or the horse won't go. He lets the horse go. So the horse says, like, fuck it. I'm going back to my man. And he rides for days and like forever, right? Like he's like on a mission. This, this horse must have ran. This is the one. And he takes up. No, the best part is he gets, he almost gets captured by orcs and he takes out like three orcs. He's a battle is this horse is taking out more orcs than most people have already. His, his, his, his orc count is higher than most props to right up there with a legless and family. Yeah. I mean, right away. He's my favorite horse ever. And Barrett eventually finds a seal door and he stuck in a spider kit. What do you guys think? Okay. So. We talked about how, like poems and stories, one of the most talking things to, to ever be. I would argue that talking and horses is above that because in the books with like build a pony or even shadow facts, talking takes the time and care to push their story forward. This is what they went through and they got there safely because he cared so much about the animals and especially the horses build a pony is one of the most precious characters in all of the trilogy. And with Barrett, I was, I got into it, terrified because he starts going and who were by the orcs now. And I'm sitting there like having the most judgmental look on my face watching very carefully to see if they are going to hurt the horse or if they are going to actually be true to talking and have the horse do all of these good things and come out of it alive because that's what happens. And I was so pleased with the whole current arc of a barrack going in saving, rescuing, doing all of these things because that's exactly how talking would have written barrack the horse. 10 out of 10. Also, those spiders are really scary. Super scary spiders man. This scene was gnarly. Oh my gosh, dude, he's wrapped up and there's like spiders crawling from the ceiling. They were way too long. A lot of gore coming from those eggs. Yeah, yeah, not. This is not a preppy place. Dude, this is like, like, imagine my worst nightmare. That's my worst nightmare. But I have a couple of friends who I know are serious spider like phobias. I'm like, hey, just so you know, actually, three, this part do not watch it. That was, I think that was more scarier than watching Frodo battle the giant spider and return. Yeah, yeah, shallow. Yeah, like, like, and I think what it was is like the smaller they are almost the more scared I am, you know, and the one that like grabbed that orc and exploded its head. I don't even understand how that fucking happened, but that spider is like the worst thing that ever lived hold. That's when I was like, all right, creators, I'm watching you with something fights the horse and hurts the horse. I'm riding off the show completely. Yeah, so the horse is like stomping on spiders, as soon as there's like doing his, like, knife work on some spiders and they finally, he finally saves the, he pulls some spiders off the horse they write off to safety. You know, saves the day. Yeah, hats off. Oh, yeah. So then we, we, they escape, and then we get to, we go back to Numenar. I think it's a little bit of a little bit of fun, but I think it's a little bit of fun, but I think it's a little bit of fun, but I think it's a little bit of fun and I think it's a little bit of fun. Yeah, I think it's a little bit of fun. She arrives, she's still blind from her from the battle, henceforth, and the king is dead, and they're having a funeral for her father, the king, and she's confronted by a grieving mother who basically slaps the shit out of her. That shocked me. Yeah, and she returns it with a hug and confronts her, and that's why we need more women in charge. That's right, because I probably would have punched her. Yeah. So that empathy, I think, goes a long, a long way, but phase on, or a Farazan. Is it Farazan? Farazan? Yeah, Farazan is secretly still plotting, I guess, behind your back. There's some stuff going on. Why are they plotting a fucking coup in a public tavern? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, there's like some weird subtle things going on here, like him choosing the colors for her, and I don't know why he's in a room with her alone anyway. That was exactly what I said. She had a guard literally next to her. Yeah, yeah. Are they suspicious of each other at this point? Or has he not played his role? She's suspicious of him? It seems like why is she hiding the thing? I guess she just didn't want anybody to know about the Palantir, right? Yeah. So that's why she's hiding the bracelet behind her back. It turns out to be the key that goes upstairs. We find out later. Farazan prefers red. She likes the white. We come to see later on that the red does, in fact, went out. And then we go to the pub. Yeah, we get to the pub, and Farazan's meeting with A.R.A.R.A.N. A.R.A.N. Lots of vows. All the vows. And she comes to say that I have a way to kind of make the mini who may be considered who, if you want to do this coup, I may have a way to get people to kind of come our way. Right. So much for the essential betrayal. Yeah. Yeah. Especially that it's disappointing. It's a similar sister. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is even more interesting, right? Like from a family dynamic. And we saw that in season one, they were kind of opposed in a lot of ways as well. I guess she blames him for mother's death, I think. Which, which he reveals is his fault. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's right. Because of the drowning he'll talk about later. Yeah. Is it the land deal? I don't remember his his friend is. Yeah. Yeah. I was trying to remember this character. I guess I don't know if it's the he looks older than he did from last season or something, but I was like, man, you look different. But it's his friend that he went to war with right like in the end of that battle and he had a training together. Yeah, there's this whole scene and where he basically chastises him for not having put in his dues and so on right on the boat. But but their buddies. Yeah. And he ends up naming his son after him. Oh, does he? Oh, I didn't realize that. But she kind of confronts the table and kind of like, and like that pompous little kid. Oh, he's the definition of an asshole. Like he even looks like it. Yeah. Yeah, there's a bit of there's a bit of like, you know, male, you know, like, which who's his bigger moment. He puts his hand on his is like, hey, we could take this outside if you want. Yeah, it's a little kid. Yeah, he backs down. He's like, no, no, no, no, and and then they get back and calling him a little kid. He's we're talking about it. I know, but he just comes off as like a little spares on son. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He just comes off as like a little snot brows kid. He does. Yeah. Very personally we easily vibed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And as we it shows that she's like that bracelet she unlocks to the door and she reveals that the seeing stone is gone, which is what Ari and has been talking about this whole time that she has it. Yeah, she stoles it. And I could remember you guys remember I don't remember how she got to that to it from season one. They kind of showed him in the flashback. But do you remember why she had access to that room? When by she, do you mean, Ari? Ari. Ari. So, Ari is as I was she's drawing a picture of the Tar Palantir, the king who's dying sketching and he wakes up, but he's not completely lucid and thinks it's Muriel and mentions it to Ari and then she discovers it in that way, I believe is what happens. Wouldn't she need the key to get up to the, like, I guess I'm like, she just knew. I think he points all that stuff out to her. Okay. I'd like to say you need to go or some sort of scene with the urgency as he's not. Yeah. They're scared of open artifacts very much so. Well, well, he is it. He's not the people are and Muriel. Yeah, that's that's the essence of what's going on here is the politics of being pro elf or anti elf. Well, and I guess I'm confused and maybe help me out here too. So the Palantir in the season one. She placed her hand on the pound here and it shows the destruction of a movement, right? Like, shows the way the way. And that hadn't, did that happen? No, it didn't. Right. When they came back. It was just the king had died was the problem. Right. That's what was going to happen. She's going to come back to the destruction, but it wasn't, but she hadn't, she thought by going to, to fight the battle against the, the orcs or whatever. But I forget what the name of that battle was or what if they even had a name that that would, like, that would be the good deed that could maybe turn the tide and bring the elves back to new men or which would stop the way. Right. That's kind of like her thinking. That was her reasoning for going to war. Yeah, essentially. Yes. Yeah. I returned to tradition with friendship with the elves. Right. So, and I guess that didn't really come to play here. Right. Like, there's, like, it seemed like they got their ass kicked. They didn't, like, come back home, like, licking their wounds. They don't have a relationship with the elves. Nothing went well. And the Palantir's gone. So, like, for considering, like, you know, three structure out, this is pretty much, this feels like nothing's going right for, for our blind queen. But it would be interesting to see if the vision had changed at all. But I guess we won't see that. We haven't seen that yet. Spoiler alert drew. That's what's going to happen. I wasn't going to say anything. Damn it, spoilers. We should all prepare. I think most things like that. I think that they do show kind of comes to fruition, I feel like, and for the most part, even the Shire, when they showed it burned, like it did get jacked up, right? It did. They just didn't show it in the movies. I'm pretty sure they've, they've, like, recorded and done it, but they didn't put it in even in the extended edition. Yeah. So, I mean, most of those visions come to usually come to play. We get to add our, our is preparing for war. He's preparing his orcs to fight against Sauron, even though all the orcs are like, but is he alive? Is he dead? I thought we killed him. And there's like an interesting scene, which I'm not sure if we need it. There's a scene that shows like a little bit of the human side of the orcs, including like one, like turning it like his like second in command, turning to his baby and a baby or I'm glad I'm glad you bring in this. Yeah. So I guess, hey, what's happening here? Do we want to care about orcs? Yes, because I think that confused everybody. I thought orcs were grown in the ground. I'm, I'm lost. So help me out. So yeah, the grown in the ground thing, there are different versions, and Tolkien has different, there's different places where he was developing the story over time. He said that they were bred in slime in the ground, but most of the stories that he, that he included with was that they were corrupted versions of elves. And the whole reason for that theologically is because evil can't create. It doesn't have the power to create living, sentient, independent beings, all it can do is mock and corrupt. So therefore, you can't create these things that can go out and have their own thoughts and ideas about things and fight independently. You could, at best, if you were super powerful like Morgoth, you could make these puppets and you could control them and fight with them while you're, while you're thinking about them. And himself was aware of this problem, a problem with the orcs, and namely that if they are the speaking rational beings, then they, they can reason and they can have morality and they are not wholly irredeemable they're not just armies of things that it's okay to kill and we shouldn't feel that about it because they're just evil incarnate. He was aware of this, there's been, there's a part in them, the two towers when this cure thing all when Frodo is, when Sam thinks he's dead but he's not dead he gets captured by the orcs, and the orcs make a comment because at this time they don't know Sam is another hobbit they think he's a big elf warrior because he was, because he's all scary and they make this comment like, well, clearly this, his buddy didn't think too much about him, just to leave him laying like that, which is a typical elvis trick, and which that shows you that they're prejudiced, justice prejudice against elves, but also the fact that he can have this judgment of like, it's wrong to leave your comrade behind in battle, it kind of shows that they are capable at some level of morality. Tolkien was never able to resolve this, there's not a satisfactory resolution to it in the books, it kind of, it is what it is, and I think that showing this in the series shows us a level of sophistication, of awareness of this and even if there isn't, just as in the books there's not an answer to it, it's an awareness that it's there and it's saying here it is. So when I, these are the things I'm thinking about when in this scene when it shows the orc and the orc family, I think to me this really works because it shows the orcs as a people and it really is going to serve to make sour on all that more evil, because now for the first time, you're going to see that he dominates orcs as a people, like he does, like his intention is to do with everybody else, which is just the more wicked of a thing than having these evil little monsters that you can just, if you can beat them in battle or that you don't have to feel bad about it, that means that you shouldn't take them in prison or if you do, you shouldn't torture them and you should not kill them unless there's a very good reason. I mean, man, you make a pretty good argument, because when I first saw it, I was like, I don't know if I want this, right? Like, and here's my reason why, like I kind of like a clean, good and bad in a fantasy show, right? When it gets murky, when you start putting gray tones on your bad guys and your good guys, like I start to sort of, like I don't mind character flaws, right? Like if a character has like flaws or family or whatever, like, that's fine, but it's sort of like when Game of Thrones has the white walkers, right? Like, there's no fucking, I don't need to sympathize, like, they're bad, we have good guys over here, bad versus good. It's like Darth Vader versus Luke Skywalker, there's evil, even though there's a redemption there, which is great, and I think we have some nuance there, but for the most part, we all just know good versus evil, and I guess I don't know if I want to know that the orcs are like family You know, have a little happy family and they're a little orc-cutt, and we don't need to feel bad when they are eating people, I'm like, well, no, they're still eating fucking people and terrorizing them, and terrorizing towns and doing all the wrong things, so it's sort of like a weird thing for me to like kind of jostle around in my brain, I guess, and maybe that's because my brain is small, like a rabbit Well, and it's a way to think about it too, where it's like, both can exist in the world, but very little can actually reproduce like that, like a very small amount, whereas the majority are created, you know, via slime in the ground, basically I can kind of see it like that to where it's like, oh, this was possible in the beginning, because they were originally 13 or something like that, I don't remember, but it could work in that way, it's like It's very difficult to create an entire everything, continually keeping, you know, their females pregnant or something like that, it's easier and more effective to just make them in the ground, that is the funniest things I've ever said in my life No, I guess in my mind, the ground thing made sense because you could like mass produce, which made it feel like, okay, that's how they could create an army so quickly, right? And that's why there are 10,000 to one odds, right, you know, like you're like, how the fuck did somebody work? Yeah, no, we're talking about the odds, but I guess all this leads up to a really cool moment where I think it's a cave troll, but, or maybe it's not, yeah, so a cave troll walks up the camp like just throws off like just destroys half the town, basically walks in with the dead orc in his hand and throws it at the feet of Aldar, and he says, where Sauron, and probably the coolest entrance I've ever seen of a character in the show so far, so right now this cave troll is my favorite, I hope he doesn't die, he's my BFF Favorite even more, he's actually played by Ben Walker, who also is Gil Gallad Oh really? Oh wow, that's awesome, I mean it looks great, the special effects look awesome, I don't know, I was just, it was just a cool, cool, I like, I don't know, I'm kind of excited to see where that goes Me too I don't know how the fucking rings are going to do that, but that's how that's going to work, you know, the rings of power, it's magic Duran's like, I don't trust you, especially this dude over here, what's your name, and he kind of keeps digging and like, oh yeah, Elrond says you're awesome and Duran's not buying it Yeah, Sauron's done so far of like being... It's his previous incarnate, like slipping through a little bit? Yeah, like, I was like, man, you were doing really good, you were shooting fucking like threes, like no problem, like nail in them, like you were convincing everybody, but Like, you trying to convince Duran is like me trying to convince Chris, like, I actually know anything and what I'm talking about when it comes to life So, you know what I'm saying, it's not a convincing argument, so Duran's not buying it, but he agrees to consider the offer and take it back to his king Do you guys have any added thoughts here? No, that's pretty much the same thought I had honestly The dwarves have never been able to be corrupted by Sauron and Morgoth, and it's known that this is the case, the rings, the seven rings don't work the way that they're supposed to with them, they were made to be resilient And so yeah, it just totally tracks that Sauron should have learned here if he didn't, he should have learned a list I didn't even know that, so connecting the two like that, that's brilliant That's great, so it's like Sauron trying to do his Jedi mind trick and he's like, that shit don't work on me, you know, like Duran Yeah, that's great, I didn't think about that, I always just thought I had a connection to the ring, that's smart That's cool, yeah, dwarves, we see, dwarves are great We get a great scene back in Kazadoum, Prince Duran presents Celebrimor's offer to his father, King Duran Duran apologizes in a pretty emotional scene, who accepts the apology, but not really in a not really kind of way, in a very dwarf-like way, I guess you could say But with space to move forward, yeah, exactly, sometimes it's how it has to be King, the prince kind of says, hey, I don't trust these rings, I don't trust, you know, this, I guess, I don't know if he drops Anatar or not here, but he basically says I don't trust him But I guess, it kind of ends there, but the king, I think we see later that the king accepts the offer We then go to Isildur, and we finally get the scene with Arundyr Arundyr, that was the most Elvish entrance I've ever seen, and I was screaming with excitement Yeah, so Isildur and Estrid fall for the oldest trick in the fucking book, it's like a journal man Didn't you guys play Red Dead 2? Oh, for real! I was like, damn Isildur, you've lived on that island way too long, you have no fucking clue how the world works, do you? Like, it was sort of like, I was like, even Estrid is like, I wouldn't go over there, you're pretty fucking stupid if you go check out that dude And what is he do, he goes checks out that dude, gets his ass kicked out the dude, and he gets his ass beat, it's a trap They're getting robbed, they're about to get probably either raped and killed or whatever, and then, like you said The full elf mode arrows everywhere, blows into the back of a thing and explodes out of it like a trapeze artist Lands full superhero mode and kills more, kills like three other dudes with very little problem And then Cruz is one of the coolest people, I love him He's a badass Really? Yeah, he's a great elf One of the best Yeah, yeah, I hope to see more of that, what you just did, more of I want more The horse, they steal the horse, which is sad, Sildur wants to go after his horse, but a run dears like, nope, I'm going this way if you want to follow me and live You know, come with me if you want to live Around dears tins, his wife's, I guess they were never really married, but who is, what's her name? Bronwyn? Bronwyn, her funeral And this was like a weird thing, like I had, like, I'm- This surprised me, I didn't know I actually kind of have an answer for this Yeah, how did she die again? So the orc arrow killed her, is that kind of like? Technically, there was a- they explain it how she dies, like, in this episode with, like, there's, like, some poison kind of things in the arrow And she eventually succumbed to her injuries, but she died off-screen between season one and season two Yeah, but that's because the actor is a really big activist for a lot of things All of the, kind of, like, the list of things that she does, but she's phenomenal and decided not to come back for season two to focus on her efforts with what she's doing Oh, well, she's asking your choice That's good for her then, I mean, that's, yeah, that's- Yeah, yeah, that was- I was with you, Chris, I was like, she died, what's happening, what is happening here? Yeah, surprising, I had to even, like, refresh us They even showed her face for a second, I was like, oh, yeah, that chick, you know, like, that moment through, like, in the show And, but her awful son is still around Oh, he's such a dick Theo, Theo, his name, I think It's not gonna be one of the, um, Witch Kings? I'm gonna be pissed Oh, well, you think it's gonna be one of the- I do Really? Really? Yeah, one of the nazgull, I think that's what it is Yeah, that would be interesting, I could see that Yeah, that's my big wish That's cool, that's a good scene and now That's a good scene If he gets a redemption, I'm gonna be pissed Oh, I know, yeah, well, yeah, we'll see Well, somebody has to be the nazgull Right, right, right, yeah, I mean, and they're making the- they're making the nine rings They gotta- they're gonna have to show it We're gonna- we're gonna see, right? I think you- I think you're on something Yeah, you're on something, yeah Uh, well, he- he's insufferable as ever Re- rejecting any comfort that- that is given to him from anybody Like, he's just a complete douche Uh, he invites a silder to help rescue Barrick, uh, the horse from the Wildman Uh, and like, Hoffa and like, a silly, like, thing Psyquest? Yeah, Psyquest, that like, we're gonna save- a horse, we're gonna save a horse Right, so, I'm here for it Yeah, um, yeah, I'm thinking of the treatment Start talking shit about that horse, I forgot to listen to the horse Come on! No, I mean, I'm all forced over the horse, I guess it was just- it just feels so random Like, everything else has felt so, like, ground-breakingly epic Like, as a scene, like, every scene seems to matter Like, very- like, every discussion about, like, we're gonna do this with the rings Or this is how- and then this one's like, we gotta go save this fucking horse The reason why is because of what happened at the very end of the scene Yeah, the end-wives Yup, yup Yup, yup, yup So, real quick, real quick, uh, we- we get to see, um, right before they take off for their quest We get to see Estrid burn off Soren's brand from her- from her neck So, we assume that means she's like, she did some bad shit, but she's, like, turning the corner She- she bent the knee, basically Not to survive, so she feels guilty for- for doing that And I'm like, yeah, I don't feel guilty, girl, you gotta do what you gotta do It's very grateful for that Yeah, um, and then, while they- so they're just succeeded in freeing Barak, Theo, walks up to the camp And is like, "Hey, I'm one of you guys!" And they're all like, "Eh, are ya?" "I got this cool brand!" And they're like, "That's not the right brand, I'm asking" And he's like, "Yeah, but it's- it's cool" I've done more for- for- I don't know, than you ever have And it's like, well, technically that is true Yeah, I was like, "Man, is your IQ like a- like zero? I don't understand" Yes, like someone put an arrow in this kid's face Um, he gets captured, but- and he yells for- "Is he a door?" There's a moment though, I'm wondering, like, did an- did an int just throw an axe at a dude and kill a dude with an axe? Someone killed somebody with an axe, and it wasn't a- it wasn't a shield-er 'Cause he was off running away on his fucking horse I was too excited about trees moving So I'm- I'm thinking an int just threw an axe at a dude Probably, like this tiny little int child, just like, "Eh!" Yeah, that would be so- I was like, "Well shit, they can throw weapons, I'm down!" Uh, but we see ints and axes don't really- No, they don't, but we'll figure that out And an axe killed that dude that was holding Theo, and I don't know who fucking threw it That's good, that is a good point Uh, and the only thing, the rest of the death is by ints, so I don't know So that's cool, I don't know how that's gonna play, somehow it will I'm so excited I'm just showing you guys, you guys have any theories, I don't know, they didn't really show anything Except Theo getting pulled away, but into the shield or get away, I'm blanking now They didn't show him getting away, but I don't think he's going to- he's gonna go up with Theo Yeah, but Theo got- we don't know if he got killed, but he got off-screen pulled away Carried away? Yeah, carried away Yeah, he's gonna be in the hands of the ant-wise, which is probably gonna be fun That's gonna be good people, it's gonna be a long wishful thing for talking fans Because you don't even get to see them in the books, you just get to hear mention of them They've lost them and they don't know where they are It's just got separated, yeah, a long time ago, the ants and the ant-wise They haven't seen each other for years and years, they- and treater asks, "Mary, have you seen any ant-lives in your country?" Because he's just curious That's so heartbreaking Wow Have them just be missing, so they- we have no idea what happened to them, where they went Or if any of them still exist, nothing In my headcanon, just because I don't like to be sad about it otherwise, I think they do live in the shower I think so too Because, there's a conversation in the green dragon where their talk sits like Sam and the Minsandim and the Miller and whatnot And he's talking about how his cousin saw a tree walking, and Ted's animates says, "Well, that's just nonsense" He says, "But it was, it was an elm tree walking ten yards to a stride if it was a mile" And there ain't no elm tree on the moors and Ted's like, "Well, then he can't have seen an elm tree, then he'll laugh" That's a good headcanon But if you think that there's some sort of truth in this story that his cousin did see an ant, it was maybe it was an ant Oh, I'm gonna use that now That's cool I love that It helps me get through that One of the things that I will commend the show on doing is something that's also been lacking in a lot of media is color There has been a significant lack of vibrancy lately in TV shows and movies And when we go anywhere that's especially in regards to the elves or even the dwarves They have such vibrancy and actual color that is not dimmed by brightness And so there's a really good visual distinction between the evil and the good Especially in regards to the color and the details within their clothing And everything like that has been a really nice breath of fresh air to see things with color And it was like that even in season one, but even more so in season two now that the tree was healed And even more brightness was brought in All the golds and turquoise green colors You know what I like my grays, it's a sign of the times Well, let's just wrap it up, Mariel's coronation begins with her white gown and Faison is wearing red The voices, she walks out right away right before she's about to pick up the crown or be coordinated People are speaking out, not happy, y'all are up seeing things Right before she starts speaking and everything she's saying is great You could be for me or you could be for your country, you could be for whatever But don't do it for you, don't be speaking out because you want to be heard And I'm like oh yeah, fuck yeah, get it girl She's like quelling it, squashing it, she's a good leader, you can tell And then a sister comes out revealing the Palantir and she's deceived us, she's been using this thing And then Faison and a weird, she's like yeah, she would never use that thing, get rid of it, throw it in the trash And then she actually outs herself and's like nope, that's mine, I use it Don't get rid of it, I need it, almost like scary No, don't get rid of it, it's like a precious, she's addicted to it almost And right when things start to get crazy, people are rioting an eagle appears And Faison walks up to it and everybody starts chanting Faison That poor eagle was probably just like I'm here to give approval to my queen, what is this guy doing here? I'm very confused, like those politicians, as they do, manipulated that situation so aggressively to make it look like that eagle had chosen him My interpretation exactly, yes, are they bad? The eagles are so incredibly smart and in the books they speak, and I'm sad that it makes sense that they don't hear because then they would explain what they were there for But I remember them speaking too, which was kind of weird that it didn't say like no, not you, the other one, you know, like get out of here Or like take them and throw them off the roof and they're like yeah, no, you're good The poor eagle is probably just like I was just told that I was supposed to come here and show my face, I'm going to leave now Yeah, it's a very awful moment from a politics standpoint, obviously we don't know how to play out, obviously Faison is just a corrupt douchebag And probably won't be a good leader, which will lead to the downfall of Numenor So boy, so we can see that coming, anything that you guys want to add there? I don't think so The last part, we get Anatar and Calabimor forging the Dwarven Rings We see Mithriel being handed to Calabimor by King Dyrin, and with Prince Dyrin and Dessar also present Right before Calabimor puts the Mithriel into the, he, Anatar says like no, no, no, give it to me, I'm going to do the thing So he gives Anatar the Mithriel and Anatar closes his eyes and whispers something under his lips and drops in the Mithriel That was good Yeah, totally, yeah, he puts his bad juju on that shit and then the rings are made So yeah, that kind of ends on that and you guys have any thoughts? I think it was smart to do the first three episodes because it brought back every single storyline and caught us up on everything I think that was very smart, I know it was very, very smart Yeah, I mean, good to end it there too because we know the rings get created and a little bit of what happens and we get to see the story now I'm interested to see you, of course, there's seven rings for dwarves, are both Dyrin's going to get one? What's that going to look like? Or is there just going to be one and then there's strife over it and I think it's the strife over it because the trailer, the sun is yelling at his father, take off the ring Because I think he thinks something is going on, but we know that dwarves can't actually be corrupted by the rings, so that'll be interesting to see how that's going to work Yeah, well, politically, right, like there, Kazadum is the only one that appears to be in per apparel, right, of needing the ring, right, like they had a reason to get the ring Which is also strange because Sauron knew of that, right, like it's weird that everyone knows, like it seems weird that he knows so much of what's going on around Middle Earth, right, even though he doesn't seem to travel anywhere It's not like he's getting ravens on the hour on shit, so it's no, he has to, it seems like they're shadow people who are working for him already Yeah, yeah, that's the only explanation, I hope they explain that because otherwise he's just very, it seems almost all seeing, which is kind of strange, considering he couldn't find two hobbits running around for a while, who didn't have any idea where they were Yeah, and then, so at some point, we're going to have to see how the other dwarves get their hands on the rings, right, the other King Dwarf Kings, so that may come into play And then obviously the nine rings for the men, right, so that's still to come, I'm assuming this season, does it feel like this is going to be the last season, or do you think they're going to be just real quick and just last thoughts? Like, do you think like they're going to just like get, everybody's going to get the rings, it's going to be like, oh, that's it? Anytime, any place you look it up, it says three seasons, yeah, it feels like it's, you could, I suppose, I mean, but if we think about the whole story of the rings power, it properly would be, it would end where the prologue Yeah, because then we can see the creation of the Nazgul and like the kind of like the rest of the battles for actually destroying Sauron, because there's no way they could get all of these ducks in a row to be able to now destroy Sauron It's going to come to a point where they all finally realize this is what we need to do and now we're ready to do it, and that's when the third season is going to come in and then to kind of speed up that process, fight and destroy and a little bit of like, we're going to just like show our way to the beginning of the trilogy or the orbit Like this season could end with him creating the one ring, right, like it feels like that's the way it feels, I think that's how the end of season two is going to be, I think that's how it's going to end Yeah, I'm with you guys, this so far, these first three episodes are really strong, I'm really liking the sips much more than the first season Here's the thing, it's like, when I watch a fantasy show, I equate it to like pizza or sex, like it's even bad, fantasy is good, right, just like bad pizza is still good Right, like it's like I like it, right, so it could just be awful and I'd be like, I'm watching fantasy live action being brought to life on television And I like it, right, like I just like this, I like living in this world of elves and orcs and wizards and you know what I'm saying, like give me, like I will eat it with a spoon all day long so I can't wait to do the rest of the season There's five more episodes of the rings of power season two and that'll do it for today, but we'll be back next week to talk about episode four, thank everybody for listening, thank you on, thank you Chris for joining This was a pleasure, I can't wait to nerd out more with you guys next week, and if you're liking what you're listening to, if you're digging this at all, don't forget to leave a comment or if you want to leave a rating on our show, kind of helps people like you find us With us, which is always great, and as always go check out couchtube.com and support us, if you want to become a member there and join our awesome community of nerds, you get to hang out our little community, we have awesome perks and all the stuff you could ever want by being a part of a great community like ours in supporting couchtube to support us, so that's that, till next week, thank you everybody, we'll see you back in the middle [Music]
If you're watching The Rings of Power, this is the podcast aftershow you must listen to. Your hosts break down the episode's scene by scene and dive deep into Tolkien lore and the ways it connects with the TV show and where it doesn't. This episode contains a breakdown of the first 3 episodes that dropped, so it's a long one, but oh boy, do we nerd out. If you're a fan of the films or books and want a POV from that perspective we've got you covered. You won't regret hitting play on this series.
