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The Nothing Behind Everything

This week, two conversations from the archives about parts of the world that are imperceptible to us, verging on almost unthinkable. We start with a moment of uncertainty in physics. Inspired by an essay written by physicist and novelist Alan Lightman, called The Accidental Universe (https://zpr.io/4965dUdNqtpQ), taken from a book of the same name. Former Radiolab co-host Robert Krulwich pays a visit to Brian Greene to ask if the latest developments in theoretical physics spell a crisis for science. He finds that we've reached the limit of what we can see and test, and we’re left with mathematical equations that can't be verified by experiments or observation. Then, come along as we kick rocks. And end up tumbling down a philosophical rabbit hole where the solid things around us might not be solid at all. We talk to Jim Holt, author of Why Does the World Exist? (https://zpr.io/UqHpLnDx2QNx) who points out that when you start slicing and sleuthing in subatomic particle land, trying to get to the bottom of what makes matter, you mostly find empty space. Your hand, your chair, the floor, it's all made up of mostly nothing. Robert and Jim go toe-to-toe over whether the universe is made up of solid bits and pieces of stuff, or a cloudy foundation that more closely resembles thoughts and ideas. Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)! Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today. Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing [email protected]. Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.
Duration
34m
Broadcast on
25 Jul 2025
Audio Format
other

This week, two conversations from the archives about parts of the world that are imperceptible to us, verging on almost unthinkable. We start with a moment of uncertainty in physics. Inspired by an essay written by physicist and novelist Alan Lightman, called The Accidental Universe (https://zpr.io/4965dUdNqtpQ), taken from a book of the same name. Former Radiolab co-host Robert Krulwich pays a visit to Brian Greene to ask if the latest developments in theoretical physics spell a crisis for science. He finds that we've reached the limit of what we can see and test, and we’re left with mathematical equations that can't be verified by experiments or observation.

Then, come along as we kick rocks. And end up tumbling down a philosophical rabbit hole where the solid things around us might not be solid at all. We talk to Jim Holt, author of Why Does the World Exist? (https://zpr.io/UqHpLnDx2QNx) who points out that when you start slicing and sleuthing in subatomic particle land, trying to get to the bottom of what makes matter, you mostly find empty space. Your hand, your chair, the floor, it's all made up of mostly nothing. Robert and Jim go toe-to-toe over whether the universe is made up of solid bits and pieces of stuff, or a cloudy foundation that more closely resembles thoughts and ideas.

Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!

Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.

Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing [email protected].

Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.


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You're listening to Radio Lab from WNYC. Hey, this is Radio Lab. I'm left with an officer and today I have got for you two radio lab segments that came out before I ever worked here. Both of them do a thing that I find myself craving more and more these days, which is they pop you out. They pop you out of the news cycle. They pop you out of whatever interpersonal drama you're stuck thinking about. They pop you out of your own body. These are pieces about dimensions and even universes that are imperceptible, verging on almost unthinkable. I mean, I think I get it. I think I understand. Maybe I don't, but I still found it all really fun. So I hope you enjoy this pre-scheduled break from your perceptual reality. It begins with our Emeritus host, Robert Krawich, talking to our other Emeritus host, Jad Abemrod, about a conversation he had with a legendary physicist. Okay. So this is about what you do for a living. You know that I have this neighbor and friend, Brian Green. Brian Green, professor of physics and mathematics, Columbia University. Yes. I do know that. And the thing about Brian is he is a theoretical physicist. Now theoretical physicists say that it's theoretically possible to know everything there is to know in the universe. So one day they'll be able to explain not only how you could send a rocket to the moon, but the laws that govern space and energy and time and gravity, everything, the whole universe, one day they think might be totally understandable using logic and mathematical equations. Now you can't take that too far. None of us really imagined that if you ask the equations, what are we going to have for dinner tomorrow night, the equations will spit out fried tofu and spring rolls or something like that. But at the level of the fundamental ingredients, the particles that make up the universe, their properties, the hope and the goal is that the theories that we work out will apply everywhere and tell us about everything. You just said everything. Yes. As in everything. Yes. That's the big, big goal. This is like playing poker. You're helping me. I don't know what you're going to do. All right. We'll take it the next step. Okay. Wait, so what are you up to here? Well, you know we argue.

Transcription truncated.

This week, two conversations from the archives about parts of the world that are imperceptible to us, verging on almost unthinkable. We start with a moment of uncertainty in physics. Inspired by an essay written by physicist and novelist Alan Lightman, called The Accidental Universe (https://zpr.io/4965dUdNqtpQ), taken from a book of the same name. Former Radiolab co-host Robert Krulwich pays a visit to Brian Greene to ask if the latest developments in theoretical physics spell a crisis for science. He finds that we've reached the limit of what we can see and test, and we’re left with mathematical equations that can't be verified by experiments or observation. Then, come along as we kick rocks. And end up tumbling down a philosophical rabbit hole where the solid things around us might not be solid at all. We talk to Jim Holt, author of Why Does the World Exist? (https://zpr.io/UqHpLnDx2QNx) who points out that when you start slicing and sleuthing in subatomic particle land, trying to get to the bottom of what makes matter, you mostly find empty space. Your hand, your chair, the floor, it's all made up of mostly nothing. Robert and Jim go toe-to-toe over whether the universe is made up of solid bits and pieces of stuff, or a cloudy foundation that more closely resembles thoughts and ideas. Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)! Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today. Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing [email protected]. Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.